If you get a letter saying that Big Bank has sold your debt to Snake & Weasel Debt Collectors you may be very worried.
This article answers questions about what has happened and how it will affect you. Will the debt collection agency (DCA) be horrible to deal with? Is it legal to do this? Do you still have to pay the money? What about your credit record? What if you don’t owe the money/
Has your debt really been sold?
Sometimes a lender will appoint a debt collector to try to collect the money for them. This isn’t a “sale” – you still owe the money to the original lender and none of the rest of this article is relevant.
If you aren’t sure what has happened, the best thing is to contact the original creditor and ask them if your debt has been sold or not. If you are worried and don’t want to talk to the creditor, phone National Debtline for advice about the letter.
Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?
When you borrowed the money or opened the account you agreed to the terms. In the small print have been a clause that said that the lender can “assign his rights” to a third-party. This is often described as a “sale”.
When a sale happens, everything about your debt – all the terms and conditions – remains the same, except that you now owe the money to the debt collector who has bought the debt, not the original creditor.
You won’t be asked to agree to the sale and you can’t object or stop the sale. You agree to the original terms which included a clause that permits this.
(There is one exception here. If your lender subscribes to the Standards of Lending Practice and if they had previously been shown evidence that you have mental health problems, your debt should not have been sold. Go to your local Citizens Advice if you would like help with this situation.)
Your debt can be sold if you are in debt management or you have an arrangement to pay. It may not feel fair if the lender accepted your monthly offer and you are making the payments as agreed, but legally the lender can still sell the debt.
How much was my debt sold for?
That will depend on the state of your account. A debt where you have paid token payments or nothing for a long while may have been sold for very little, just a penny or two in the pound. If you are making regular payments then it will have been sold for more.
You won’t be told what your account was sold for. The sale is a commercial agreement between the seller and the buyer. This may seem annoying, non-transparent or unethical, but the debt collector and the original lender are not doing anything wrong by not telling you the sale price.
The price the debt collector paid for your debt is irrelevant to you. It doesn’t affect the amount that you now owe – you still owe the full amount but now to the debt collector.
So the lender has been paid – why do I owe anything?
The original lender has had the debt settled by the DCA. But you now owe the money to the DCA instead.
Think of this example. You borrow £200 from your sister for some car repairs, agreeing to pay her back £50 a month. But she suddenly needs all the money immediately, so your dad gives your sister the £200 and you repay your dad instead. Same debt, same repayments. You borrowed from your sister but now you don’t owe her anything but you do need to repay your dad.
This is pretty much what has happened with your debt being sold. Your debt stays exactly the same, you just owe it to a different person.
(NB The above example isn’t an attempt to explain the legal contractual obligations – it is an analogy illustrating why you now have to repay someone else. See “Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?” above, for the legal points.)
I want to carry on paying the original lender
You can’t do this. You don’t owe any money to the original lender anymore.
Will the debt collector be difficult?
You may find that debt collectors are as easy to deal with as the original lender. Indeed they may be more likely to freeze interest or accept a full and final settlement offer!
If you had a payment arrangement with the original lender, for example in a debt management plan, you just need to offer the same amount to the debt collector.
There are regulations to make sure that debt collectors behave fairly – all DCAs handling credit card and loan debts have to be regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and if you have problems with one, the Financial Ombudsman will look at your complaint.
Of course debt collectors don’t always get things right. One firm that has had a long record of handling debts badly is MotorMile Finance, who in 2018 changed their name to Lantern. In November 2016, the FCA has made them write off a lot of loans and refund other people.
I now have two defaults on my credit file
Debts are usually already defaulted before they are sold. When it is sold the original creditor will mark the debt as settled with a zero balance owing and the debt collector will add the debt with the same default date that the original creditor used.
So now there are now two debts on your credit record. But the total of all your debts is right – the debt isn’t being double counted because one of these says that there is zero owing. And when your credit rating is calculated, the original debt is ignored, so your credit score will not get worse because you now seem to have two defaults.
If the debt collector adds a default date which is later than the original creditor, this is wrong. What should the Default Date for a debt be? explains how you can get it changed.
Can the debt collector take me to court?
Yes. The debt collector now has all the rights that the original lender had and this includes applying for a County Court Judgment (CCJ).
You don’t have to worry that this is going to happen straight away. The debt collector would rather reach an agreement with you for monthly payments and not have the cost and bother of going to court. But in 2017 there were 100,000 CCJs a month in January-March and it seems that debt collectors are going to court more often.
Will it reset the 6 year period for becoming statute-barred?
No. A debt will become statute-barred six years after you last acknowledged the debt e.g. by making a payment towards it. If you haven’t made any payments for the last two years say, then a sale to a debt collector makes no difference and there are still four years left before it becomes statute barred.
A debt that is old and already statute-barred will continue to be so after the sale. Read Statute Barred Debt – Common Questions – that article has a template letter you could use in this situation.
The letter doesn’t say what the debt is!
If you get a letter that might be about a debt but it doesn’t give any details at all, it is just asking you to call them, then this is a “fishing expedition”. They don’t really know who the debt belongs to and they are hoping someone will give them their details (date of birth, previous addresses) that will match. You can usually ignore these vague letters – see Prime Location Services – do I have to call them? for an example.
I don’t owe this money
If the letter mentions a debt which you do not owe – perhaps because you never borrowed from that lender or because you have already repaid it – then don’t ignore the letters but reply telling the debt collector to prove it.
I am in a DMP what do I need to do?
If you have a debt management plan run by a company, tell the DMP company. They will switch your monthly payment to go to the debt collector.
If you are running your own DMP, you need to cancel any standing order paying the original lender, offer to pay the same amount to the DCA and ask for their payment details. They may ask you to provide a new Statement of Affairs.
If you have been ignoring this debt, this is a good point to review your whole situation and your possible debt solutions.
A simple overview of your debt options
Threats of court – are debt collectors bluffing?
Could you get a payday loan refund?
Clifford says
Thanks you very much for your advice. It was a payday loan. I would get in contact with National Debtline today.
Teresa says
Hi Sara, My husband’s Cabot debt has now been moved to the Cabot solicitors Mortimer Clarke. They are claiming that unless he responds by the 11th Feb they will take him to court for an old Sainburys credit card, he last made payment in 2013, and has no contact from anyone until Cabot took over the debt. He has asked Cabot for the original agreement, they haven’t yet sent it. But I don’t know if this is just an empty threat, or is he better to just respond. The last thing he needs is a CCJ, we moved last year whilst he has a default on his credit file, we will need a new mortgage in the next 4 years, so we cannot risk a CCJ. Please help!
Teresa says
Also I must add. Cabot first contacted him in April of last year. To date despite proof of the debt they haven’t produced any evidence of him owning this money. Do they have a time limit on when they must produce the documents?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Teresa,
has he had a Letter before Claim/Action? If he has, this article looks at how to reply to it: https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/
Teresa says
It doesn’t say it’s a letter before claim, but the letter has come with a ‘Letter of claim details’ form which explains who they are etc. They have also included a reply form, income & exps form, a direct debit form etc.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a letter before claim – the link I gave explains how to complete the Reply form if you want them to send the CCA agreement.
Rennell says
Hi Sara,
I’ve just recently started to check my credit report and have see a a default shown in reference to a Talk Talk account, it shows as Settled and the amount is £0. On disupting the default with Talk Talk they confirmed that the account had been sold to Lowell but there was still an outstanding amount.
I’ve contacted Lowell and they have confirmed they are now the data controllers and will update any details in relation to the default and the account is closed with a zero balance.
I have two questions –
1) – Who am I meant to be dealing with to remove the default Lowell or Talk Talk? If Lowell hve bought the debt why did they not update my credit report as you have outlined above to reflect the debt had been passed on?
2) Why would my credit report reflect in Date Updated & Date Satisfied a date of Dec 2015 (when I closed the account as moved to a different provider), but the Default date shows the June 2016. The debt was paid to Lowell in Oct 2017.
Hope you can help I’ve complained to both parties and getting nowhere at present!!
Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you dispute that there was an outstanding amount, you need to do this with Talk Talk. If they uphold your complaint and delete the default, the Lowell record will also be deleted.
molly says
I have got credit card at an old address which we use sometimes but my new address I have got same creditor and the creditor already sold my debt to debt collector and I have agreement to pay monthly. Now it looks like my creditor has found out about my old address and has linked so what will happen?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s hard to guess, they may not do anything, they may refuse any credit limit increases, they could I suppose close the account but they may well not do this.
Cathy says
Looking for a little clarification re confusing entries on hubby’s Experian report.
We believe his main Barclaycard account should have defaulted in Nov 2012 when he missed 2 months whilst we entered into a DMP.
We thought it was showing as defaulted until BC sold the debt to Link in 09/16. Link are showing a default date, however, of 31/12/2014.
The BC record up to the point it was transferred to Link is now showing as a closed account, but with various minus month markers up until 18 months before they sold it & paid green tick markers (which it wasn’t because we were & still are in the DMP) up until date it was transferred to Link.
What are the implications to hubby’s credit record of the way the closed account has been recorded? Should we be disputing with both BC & the DCA that the account should be defaulted back to 2012?
In addition, hubby’s second BC account (formerly an Egg account, which still forms part of our DMP & should have been defaulted around the same time as the other) doesn’t appear on any of his CRA reports anywhere either under BC or the (different) DCA they sold it to 6 months ago. Is there a chance it could suddenly re-appear?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The BC account – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/ which looks at what the default date should be. At the moment it will drop off your credit records in 2020 – 6 years after the default date. if you get this corrected to be 2013 sometime it will drop off in 2019.
the old Egg account – have you checked all three Credit Reference Agencies? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/. If its not on any of them, then it could, I suppose, appear at some point, but there doesn’t seem to be any advantage in trying to sort this out. Many Egg card will have had PPI< has he tried to reclaim any? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ppi-deadline-august-2019-plevin/
Cathy says
Thank you for the reply, Sara.
So the closed account entry has no bearing on anything or will this automatically disappear as well after the 6 years? I though closed account entries stayed on your file for 7-10 years & could still affect things.
I really need to go back through our paperwork to see if/when we got a default notice on the 1st BC account. It would be nice if we could get the default date amended so that it falls off the record sooner, as we’re due to complete our DMP at the end of 2019.
I now realise it was the first BC account that used to be Egg & the 2nd one, which doesn’t show up on any of his CRA reports (& I have checked all 3), was his original BC account that he’d had since the late 80’s. As this was a pre-2000 account could that mean it hasn’t been reported to the CRA’s?
We already put PPI claims in on all our credit cards/old loans a couple of years ago. Egg & Capital One were dismissed on the grounds we’d completed the horrible short tick box applications saying we accepted personal liability for ensuring PPI was appropriate. The original BC account paid out.
However, I understand we can make a further claim against Egg & Capital One now under the Plevin rules before 29 Aug 2019- indeed Capital One have already written to me inviting me to reclaim, so need to get on to that.
Thanks again, Cathy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Closed accounts drop off 6 years after they were closed unless they had a default on them, in which case they drop off 6 years after the default date.
It is possible that a very old account isn’t being reported.
Definitely make those Plevin PPI claims!
Baz says
I had a Land Reg charge for previously unsecured bad debt made over 10 yrs ago but company who placed charge (having bought oroginal old debt) went bust in 2013. I guessed who now owns the debt, then found old letter from that co. confirming it, but never have contact, but alarmed to find they say they aquired another large debt which I cannot recall any details about. I have long term physical and other problems. When charge order put on property, I had document to show was time-barred, but free advice persons at interim hearing told me not to contest, and a different free advice person talked me put of submitting a challenge to the final hearing. I feel badly let down as later I learned onus is on debt co to disprove time-bar, but understand probably too long ago to dwell on that. In very difficult circs, and with many disabilities in family, affordable remortgage offer to stay in home hicupped by land charge. Feel trapped and worried about house, anyway I can sort this please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The current charge – there was presumably a CCJ then a charge? A “time bar” is not a reason to dispute a charge being added, the advisers were very probably correct. It is possible you should never have had the CCJ if the debt was statute barred but that would have had to be contested as soon as you were aware of the CCJ, it can’t now be reopened. I am sorry but there sounds to be little you can do about this.
The other “large debt” – you need to ask for information about this and whether there is already a CCJ for it.
Baz says
Thank you. I vaguely remember the unsecured debt became a CCJ many years before and seemed a relief in some ways because charges were heavily piling on and when made CCJ court originally said pay back nominal weekly amount might have been 50p. Seems I have to contact the owner of the debt, which when it is a dormant matter and circumstances are difficult enough is a daunting prospect, coupled with inability to recall original situation and worry that trying to deal with host of complex health problems in family could make horrendous difficulties even worse. All same, appreciate reply, thank you.
Baz says
Just found old paperwork – CA advised me to contest on neorological compromises – can only presume I didn’t because of those compromises. My wife recalls I was in a very I’ll phase at that time and particularly on the day I went to CA when she had to be contacted to pick me up.
Seems logical my illnesses have both contributed to my debts and the subsequent state they have got to. That will almost definitely exclude any revisit of legal of process (I assume) but wonder whether current debt owner may take a subjective view that could see a way forward.
Baz says
Last one:
On the paperwork I found is 2 questions my wife wrote at the time with intention to be asked of CA: ‘Litigation Act suggests Court Order sought too late (about 8 years)? And: ‘this was consolidation losm of about half this amount to original bank – Nat Debt Line advised us to take issue with bank allowing us to build up debts in pur circs which we did and no more communication came from bank ever again – is this helpful info?’
I know it’s straw clutching, but putting the whole pile of info in sometimes finds an unexpected way forward.
Kindness in heeding my issue is hugely appreciated, thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is straw clutching I am afraid, there are time limits within which complaints need to be raised and you are, I am afraid, well outside them. You should have asked for the CCJ to be set aside as soon as you were aware of it – the courts may give a few months leeway but not many years. National Debtline’s advice sounds sensible but if you didn’t get a reply from the bank, you should have taken the case to the Financial Ombudsman, as you only had 6 months to do that.
Baz says
Sara, just found consolidation offers from debt co that went bust, one @ 10% and one @ 20%. Wonder if that indicates current debt owner would accept similar. Cannot afford to service a monthly payment above a very low level, but could possibly just raise lump sum with some available help of around 20% of debt.
Last straw, I promise:-)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Fingers crossed it works for you.
Sarah says
Hi Sara,
I’ve been asked to fill in an affordability statement on a current CCj as I am now on maternity leave and my financial status has changed. How much of my disposable income should I be offering as a payment figure?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It depends on what your expenses are and what other debts you have. It could just be a token amount if you are on maternity leave. There are some useful pointers in this article: https://debtcamel.co.uk/ccj-monthly-payment-form/ – that’s what to put on court forms, but the principle is much the same. As that says, unless you are sure, it’s good to talk to National Debtline.
Tom says
Hi Sara. I have messed up a lot when I was younger and have bad credit score. I have been working on this for the last year and my score is going up. I want a mortgage and I have 1 default for an old credit card. I called them and set up a payment plan. I paid 1/3 of the debt there and then, then 2 more months of payments and it’s done. I called up to pay the second instalment and was told my debt had been sold on. Now will this add another default to my account? I’m willing to pay it off in full if I have to, but I have worked so hard to get straight and I’m so worried I will have a messed up credit account again for 6 years! Having been sold on and I pay it off, will my credit still have the original default date and the fact it’s been paid on there? Or a new default? Many thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No you won’t get a new default. The new creditor has to use the same default date as the old one did. Good luck, it sounds as though you are on right road.
Claire says
Hi Sarah,
I was wondering if you might be able to provide some advice. PRA Group bought a credit card debt that I had with Barclaycard a few years ago, unfortunately due to financial circumstances the account was defaulted by PRA Group in 2016. I have been making payments since and the debt has now lowered to £1,400, However, when checking my new credit report today, the debt/default is no longer showing and my credit score has gone up. It was showing on my previous report. I have checked both Experian and Noddle (my Clearscore report is due to be updated in 12 days and is still showing the debt/default). Would there be a reason why it has disappeared earlier than the 6 years? I was planning to clear the debt in full in the next few months but am worried that they may add the details back on my credit file? I’m not sure if to leave alone or to pay in full? Any advice would be appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The only reason I can think of – apart from an error! – is that PRA have sold the debt to another debt collector. This doesn’t really explain why they have deleted the record though… If another debt collector adds it, they should use the same default date as before. Keep your old report as proof of this!
NB you may have a case to ask Barclaycard to add a default years ago, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/.
Claire says
Thank you Sara, I will check out the Barclaycard case and make sure I keep a copy of my old report. Should I continue paying PRA each month unless I hear anything different? I would love to apply for a mortgage in the future and it has taken me a long time to clear up my credit report. The PRA default is the last one I have. Would it be more favourable to pay the debt in full or request a discounted settlement figure? I haven’t sent a CCA request so not sure if this is something I should do first or try the Barclaycard case route first?
Many thanks for all your help.
Claire
Claire says
Hi Sara,
The default/record isn’t showing back on my credit report so far. PRA Group have recently sent me a letter offering a lower settlement figure of £840 (debt amount is £1400) so it would seem they haven’t sold the debt on. If I accepted their offer and paid the debt off do you they would update that to my credit report and the default would reappear again?
Many thanks,
Claire
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s really hard to guess because it looks like there may have been some form of error, so who knows if settling the debt will bring this to light? It could be discovered even if you settle the debt in full.
Claire says
Thanks Sara, I’m just wondering if to pay at the reduced amount they’ve offered and keep my fingers crossed. Does it affect your credit report any differently if you pay a defaulted account in full or a partial settlement? Thanks for all your advice. Claire
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Making a partial settlement adds a marker to the debt. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/dmp-partial-settlement/. But as I said before, you can ask Barclaycard to add a default date that would be earlier, which means it will drop off sooner.
Claire says
Hi Sara,
The PRA default has reappeared on my credit file this month. I am going to contact Barclaycard to ask if they will add an earlier default date. Looking back on my report the old Barclaycard details are still showing and I was first 3 months in arrears in September 2012. Therefore, could I ask Barclaycard to add the default at this time or would I need to have been 6 months in arrears? If they agree, do I then contact PRA Group and request that they use the same date? (they added a default in April 2016).
Many thanks,
Claire
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask Barclaycard to add the default when you were 3 months in arrears. When they have added this, as you say tell PRA to do the same.
Claire says
Hi Sara,
Just to let you know that I contacted Barclaycard, they were very helpful and acknowledged that they should have added an earlier default. They stated that they will instruct PRA Group to remove the default from April 2016 and as it has passed the 6 year marker, Barclaycard will now not need to add an earlier default. I am delighted with the results and without your advice would not have known that I could request an earlier default date so I would like to say thank you. I am assuming the debt with PRA group will still show on my credit file but once I pay the balance it will just show as a paid debt?
Kind regards,
Claire
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No the PRA debt too should disappear as it should have had the older default added. If it doesn’t, complain to PRA.
Claire says
Hi Sara,
Barclaycard have requested for PRA Group to remove the default, however PRA Group appear to have just backdated the default date to May 2015, which is when they took over the debt. Should I complain to PRA Group that the request was to remove the default and not just backdate it? I have spoken to Barclaycard again today who said that they have requested for PRA Group to remove the default and it can take 6-8 weeks to show on my credit file. They had originally sent the request to PRA Group on 11th April.
Kind regards,
Claire
Claire says
Hi Sara,
Barclaycard have requested for PRA Group to remove the default, however PRA Group appear to have just backdated the default date to May 2015, which is when they took over the debt. Should I complain to PRA Group that the request was to remove the default and not just backdate it? I have spoken to Barclaycard again today who said that they have requested for PRA Group to remove the default and it can take 6-8 weeks to show on my credit file. They had originally sent the request to PRA Group on 11th April.
Kind regards,
Claire
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes I suggest a complaint to PRA.
Annette Bell says
Can you advise me please?
I switched energy supplier from Green Star to Eon in September 2016. Always paid my monthly DD on time. When I switched, after meter readings there was an extra £27 to pay, to bring my account to zero, which I paid by debit card over the phone. Sorted. Or so I thought.
Come end of June 2017 (yes 8 months after my account was closed) I am being told via email by Green Star to check my on line account (which I closed when I transferred) as my ‘final bill’ of £80.86 needs to be paid! I replied wondering how this could be as I was not allowed to transfer to Eon without my account being at zero. I told them I owed nothing and wouldn’t be paying. I heard nothing else until March 7 and March 10 2018 when I received two letters in quick succession stating that 1) my payment was overdue and 2) a notice of intended recovery action.
I posted a letter on March 7th stating the history and asking them to check their accounting.
I don’t understand how I could owe £80 after my account being paid off and why has it taken so long to let me know, where is the proof of how they arrived at this figure after meters were read and my account zero. The notice says that they can apply for a court warrant, force fit a prepayment meter and disconnect my energy supply. I’m a working single parent.
I would be really grateful for your response.
This whole thing is making me feel sick, I have always paid all of my bills on time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
First to reassure you they can’t do any of “apply for a court warrant, force fit a prepayment meter and disconnect my energy supply” whilst you are disputing the amount they say you owe. You have done the right thing writing to them and asking for details.
And it’s possible that as they no longer supply you they can’t do any of it anyway! If you don’t get a satisfactory reply to your letter I suggest you go to your local Citizens Advice and they will help.
Annette Bell says
Thank you so much :-)
Mark O'Neill says
Hi just wondering if you can help please I was made aware of a debt last year that I had forgotten about as it was sold to a dca we spoke over telephone & I answered honestly regarding my situation as I was in a iva at the time of call ,I answered questions about my mental health that were concerning for the dca ,they agreed to give me some time to recuperate & would contact me again later ,I have now received a letter stating no further action will be taken to recall the debt & my accounts are now closed by them ,does this mean it is gone or just sold on to another dca regards Mark
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it would be good for you to feel sure about this. I suggest you write, thanking them for their considerate letter and asking if they can confirm they won’t sell the debt on.
unicorn21 says
i have just received a letter from lowell solicitors saying notice of action. i first started getting letters from them in november 2017 i did not reply. i am now really worried as what to do. the debt is for a catalogue from my old address its £600 i was paying it until i moved. the problem i have is that i was moved from that address by the police in 2015 as i was being stalked and harrassed by a neighbour i had a breif relationship with they moved me within 2 months of telling them. i was not able to return to that address to get mail i didnt inform the catalogue that i had moved because to be honest i had more important things going on at that time. i have no idea if they sent me demands and had no idea they had sold this debt to lowell until they started to write to me in november 2017 i am on esa support group have been for a number of years due to mental health issues anxiety and depression i have been hospitalised because i have taken overdoses on a few occasions and im on medication. i no its not a huge debt if i had been in a position to inform the catalogue at the time of my mental health i would have done so but moving was most important then so i didnt do that im sure if i had they should never have sold my debt to these people. i have just emailed lowell informing them of my mental health issues and the circumstances of me leaving not that im expecting them to take much notice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
To be honest Lowell may well be easier to deal with than many catalogues! They are only threatening court action because you have ignored their earlier letters.
This article https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ suggests how to reply to a Letter before Action. You have done the right thing telling Lowell about your mental health problems, but you also need to send back the Reply Form enclosed with that letter. National Debtline 0808 808 4000 can help you with this.
If your mental health issues are continuing and you can’t afford to make any repayments, it may also be worth asking Lowell to write off the debt. https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/. And if you have other debts as well, this is the time to look at your full position.
unicorn21 says
thank you for your help and quick reply. im sorry the letter said notice of acting not action. probably the same thing though. there is no forms to fill in as yet but looking online it seems this is what they send out before sending court action stuff but like i said i have emailed them my situation. im not sure if i should call them or wait until i have spoken to citizens advice which i intend to go and see on monday. i dont have any other debts i pay utilities tv liscece and stuff online every fortnight (not keen on going out). i dont have any other debts like catalogues etc. and i had been paying this one until i had to move quickly so i never got any demands from the catalogue or these people. its my mistake for not informing them i had moved but i wasnt in the right frame of mind to think about informing a catalogue of my change of address at the time.
unicorn21 says
this letter is from lowell solicitors – we are instructed on behalf of lowell portfolio to contact you as you have not paid your overdue debt their notice to you is enclosed and asking me to contact them regarding payment. yes there is another letter from lowell financial that came in the same envolope saying they have now passed it onto lowell solicitors and they will contact me regarding the outstanding balance and all contact should be to them from now on. there is no statement of account, no reply form and no financial statement. yet.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, then you haven’t yet been sent the formal Letter Before Action with the Reply Form. That’s good! If you do get one, you should complete it as I said.
Going to CAB on Monday sounds good – this letter from Lowells solicitors can wait until then. If this is your only debt I hope it’s going to be easy to get them to accept a monthly payment arrangement you can afford so the stress and cost of court can be avoided.
unicorn21 says
thank you for your help. it has put my mind at ease a bit. in a way there is so much information online that it can confuse you even more.
Sheena says
I’ve got a debt from a mobile phone contract default from July 2014. This was sold to a DMC in Sept 2016, and has been updated as default every month since. However the phone provider is also updating the account as in default every month. Is this usual? When I called the phone company to talk about settling, they told me they couldn’t help as it had been sold on, but seems strange to me that they are still updating the default.
I’d appreciate it if you can shine any light on this, and tell me whether this means the debt is counting twice when people look at my report?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the account has been sold on, the original creditor should have the balance set to zero. you need to put in a written complaint to them, not talk on the phone, and ask them to correct this.
Sheena says
I didn’t think that was right!
Huge thanks
Natalie says
hi – apologies this is a long story
I used to live in Australia and came back 6 years ago. I worked for a company where I was told to hire vans from hire car comp. i did so regularly but up to 6 people could be driving the van. The vans over the years received speeding fines and parking fines. The company always said would deal with them don’t worry.
Six years later it’s time to worry- a debt collection agency sent someone to my home. Without warning. Been in contact for months of trying to get them to provide evidence it was me that was driving as it was not. They’ve said client not obliged to and still have to pay this huge debt of £15k
Due to remortgage next year and really very worried. It’s not on my credit file at the moment. I don’t want to admit to a debt that is not actually mine. The company I worked for has gone bust and it’s said they nominated me to pay the fines. It’s a huge mess and I don’t want this going on my file.
I don’t know where to seek help. Do I have to pay it in full because they will keep chasing? Make an offer? Ignore? Refuse to pay? So confused – but no matter what it can’t go on my credir file or I can’t get a good mortgage for 6 years please help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were these fines in Australia?
Natalie says
Hi yes they were
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oK, so I guess the cases have been taken to court in Australia. I suggest you call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and talk to them about what has happened so far and whether there is a way of enforcing this debts in England.
If they were fines and/or you were out of the country when the court cases happened this sounds pretty unlikely to me (see https://www.out-law.com/topics/dispute-resolution-and-litigation/enforcement/enforcing-foreign-judgments-in-england-and-wales/) but you need an expert’s opinion here, not me guessing as I have never seen one of these cases.
Natalie says
Hi. Thanks for this. So just to confirm because a uk company is now chasing this alleged debt it means it has definitely gone to court in Australia? I was not notified of this. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No I can’t say that, I know nothing about your case apart from what you have written. But a debt can’t be enforced without some form of court judgment. If they haven’t been to court in Australia, they would have to go to court in England which also sounds very unlikely to me. But do talk to National Debtline.
kareena lahaye says
I would first like to say thank you for creating your site, the posts and replies have been very informative. I have a question that others may find an answer helpful. If a loan agreement pre 2005 does not have the clause that they can assign a debt to a 3rd party, ie Dect collection Agency, can they still do so legally. If not, would this fact prevent a County Court Judgement. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am not a lawyer, but so far as I am aware, in general a contract can be assigned unless there is a specific clause prohibiting it (or prohibiting it without the consent of the other party.
I would suggest that you need legal advice before trying to use the absence of an assignment clause as a defence to a Claim.
kareena lahaye says
thank you, I appreciate the speed of your response
Ann says
Hi, I have today received a letter from my bank regarding an outstanding loan that they have transferred to a DCA. I also today had a letter from the DCA regarding this matter. Both the bank and DCA letter’s are stating an amount owing of £246.71 which is £2,000 less than the debt owed, if I can pay this amount does that settle my debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well that is an interesting question. It sounds as though the error was made at the bank end so they sold the wrong amount of debt. I suggest you contact the DCA in writing (email I always suggest) and ask them to confirm if they are adding any extra charges or interest so what would be the final settlement amount for this debt because you may be able to borrow the money from a relative… if they say £246, then pay it and keep a copy of that email from them!
It can’t be guaranteed this will work, but it seems worth a try. If the bank pops up later you can say you have paid what you were told the settlement amount was and you feel this is unfair.
PS you are absolutely sure you only have 1 debt with that bank?
Ann says
Thank you Sara, yes I do have only one debt with the bank. I will email the DCA and let you know the outcome.
Ann says
Hi Sara, I did email the DCA who said they would respond by letter. I have today received their letter stating the full amount owing is £246.71, however, they could offer me a settlement figure of £226.71. They also stated ‘Please note that if this debt is on your credit file and you pay a reduced settlement, once paid our client would update it to show ‘partially settled’ and won’t ask you for any more money. As there was only £20 in the difference, I have paid off the full amount as I didn’t want it being on my credit file for the next six years. Thank you so much for your advise, this is a huge relief off my shoulders. Once again a big thank you 👏
dona says
hello Debt Camel
My shop direct debt was sold to lowell in July 2016. Default date says 27.06.2016 and deafault balance says £84. Lowell send me a list in July asking £161.20. My debt was cleared August last year. I have paid this £161.20. But i think I over paid. If default balance says £84 why should I pay £161.20. I have send lots of emails to Lowell, asking for my money back. But nothing.
Kind regards
Dona
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send Lowells a written complaint (to complaintsresolution@lowellgroup.co.uk) asking why they have not replied to your emails (give the email dates.)
I can’t tell what figure is correct but you should be given an explanation of the figure they said was the settlement amount.
martine parry says
Hi Sara, One of the debt collectors has written and emailed me to get in touch with them to up-date them on my circumstances. Is there a pro-forma letter I can use as the situation has not changed as I am still in a part-time job treading water. All 4 debts will drop off the credit report this year.
I was planning on sending them all an update as to my situation having not changed – so I can still only afford to pay them £1 a month each – and then I was planning on sending each of them the letter asking for info of the agreement under the CCA https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Information-about-your-agreement-under-the-Consumer-Credit-Act-%28sole-name%29.aspx
Do you agree that I should do this or will it spur them into action towards a CCJ? I have never missed a payment of £1 per month to each debt collector but I have had little contact with them over the last 6 years.
Thank you. Martine
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debts were these?
martine parry says
Credit card defaults – all in 2012.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should certainly send all your creditors an Income & Expenditure sheet showing you can still only afford token payments of £1. You could use this tool https://tools.nationaldebtline.org/yourbudget/ to enter your budget and debts and it will create a sheet showing your income and expenditure which you can send to your creditors.
They are pretty old debts so it may be worth seeing if the debt collector can produce the CCA agreement. There is a small chance that doing this will prompt them to go for a CCJ if they can find the CCA, but if you have sent them an I&E showing that you have no spare income it isn’t that likely.
martine parry says
Thank you for your advice Sara.
Freya Jones says
Hi Sara
My son in law yesterday received a letter from Moriarty Law, and a County Court Claim from Northampton County Court, together in the post.
The claim is for a regulated loan agreement with Uncle Buck Finance on 7th October 2013 which was assigned to Motormile Finance on the 2nd May 2014. He says he has never received any formal demands for payment, although the paperwork says he has. The debt also does not show up on his Noddle Credit Report, he’s just checked. They are now asking for £299 (7.13% interest) Plus Court Fee & legal rep’s costs, totalling £374.99. Do we just blindly pay it? Thanks very much.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Let’s step back a bit. There is no need to rush to pay this, if it comes to court and he loses then it can still be paid within 28 days and it won’t wreck his credit record.
So:
1) did he used to borrow from UB? And possibly other payday lenders?
2) was he aware that he hadn’t paid a loan to UB?
3) did he have other loans from UB before this last one?
4) is he sure he has never received any correspondence from MMF – who have now changed their name to Lantern? Not had a letter recently with a lot of forms enclosed, as described in here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/? Has he moved since 2013?
5) does he have other problem debts? If he does, he may be in the habit of ignoring letters from debt collectors.
Some of those may not sound very relevant but depending on the answers, they may be.
Freya Jones says
Hi Sara
1) He says he borrowed from them once. He used a couple of payday lenders back then.
2) He says he wasn’t aware he hadn’t repaid the loan, because it hasn’t flagged up on his Credit Report, so he wasn’t alerted if it was outstanding.
3) He did, but thought it had been paid off.
4) He says he hasn’t received any correspondence from Motormile or Lantern and he has not moved house since 2013.
5) Back then, he said he did used to use them, but then took out a regular type of loan, which he has subsequently fully repaid. For over a year now, he’s got to grips with what he owes and his credit rating is going up. As I said, he checked Noddle and this one is not on there, otherwise arrangements to pay it back would have been put into place.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, the most important thing is that he has to enter a defence to this Claim which he has received. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/court-claim-form/ which explains about this – as that says National Debtline is a great place for advice on completing court forms – he should talk to them on Tuesday about this.
He should emphasis to National Debtline that he has not received any communication about this before the claim form and that he hasn’t moved so they can not have been sent to the wrong address. I think that warrants putting in a complaint to MMF that he has not been treated fairly – he would still need to defend the court case, this would be a side complaint. Ask ND if this is a good idea and if they can help him with it.
But because timescales are so short, I suggest he should do some other things as well, preferably today!
1) he should send UB a complaint about unaffordable lending. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. Do not let him get fobbed off by UB saying he has to speak to MMF – UB were the ones who gave him an unaffordable loan
2) he should send MMF a request for a copy of the CCA agreement and statement of account for the alleged debt. See https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx which has a sample letter and note he has to send £1 with this. this goes to MMF not to UB.
Tell ND that he has done these.
Barbara Thompson says
Hi Sara,
I originally had a loan from Payday which started in September 2012 I couldn’t afford to pay in Feburary 2013 and it was eventually passed to quidebt in the same month. They accepted a monthly repayment which to my knowledge was still an active standing order from my bank account. Today I received a letter of claim from BW legal. My noodle report says it was satisfied January 2017. Im totally clueless as what to do, can you please help me.
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This loan, was it originally from Payday UK? You started it in September 2012 and then rolled it every month until February 2012?
Did you have any other loans from Payday UK before this one?
The letter from BW Legal – is it a Letter Before Claim, like the one described here, with attachments including a Reply Form? https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/
Or is it a Claim Form from the court, as described here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/court-claim-form/
Barbara Thompson says
Hi yes the loan was originally from Payday uk. No other loans, and it is a Letter Before Claim/Action. I have added a clip from noodle
Account start date
14/09/2012
Account end date
09/12/2016
Opening balance
£ 375
Regular payment £
£ 369
Repayment frequency
Monthly
Date of default
01/02/2013
Default balance
£ 375
So I’m not sure now if any repayments where made.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you see from your bank statements if payments have been made?
TONY T says
Dear Sara,
Please give your opinion on the following…
A High Street Bank Credit Card Debt during Divorce Proceedings results in a CCJ – (approximately £14k) The Creditor then obtains a Legal Charge over the now-divorced single Debtor’s home.
The Creditor takes no action for ten years (except to write a routine letter which stated that if any successful PPI claim were made it would only reduce the Debt, – there would be no payment to the Claimant), then sells the debt to a Third Party Debt Company, which in the following three years take no action either, ( theirs is the third charge on the property with some £300k upstream of them) Does the Third Party Debt Recovery Company derive any benefit from the charge which is not in their name, – or putting it another way is the Legal Charge portable? Or will a new application need to be made to the County Court by the Third Party Debt Company for a charge in their own name? Are there any Statute Barring issues in the foregoing?
Hope to hear your opinion.
Regards
TONY T
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A CCJ which has resulted in a charge will never become statute barred. And yes a debt which is the subject of a CCJ can be sold. I can’t see any reason not to try to reclaim PPI on this. But I suggest you talk to National Debtline about this, and about whether interest is being added to this debt at the moment.
Kieran says
Hi,
I recently had an outstanding loan with 118 money which I fell slightly behind on. However have been making the full monthly payments + extra to make up the rest.
118 never took last months payment which I contacted them, which they have informed me they have sold my debt off to a company called Lowell Group. I’m now worried what this means for the future. I was paying nearly £500 a month to get rid of this debt previously.
Do you have any experience with this company? Are they bailiffs as I’m concerned they will come to collect the debt which I will not be able to pay a full amount on.
Would appreciate any support on the above, you kindly helped before with my payday loans. I thought I was going in the right direction in clearing some debts now this happens.
I’m still yet to get a letter from Lowell Group
Kind Regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Lowell are debt collectors, not bailiffs. You won’t ever see a bailiff unless they have (a) taken you to court for a CCJ AND (b) you don’t make the court-ordered payments. Lowell will be very happy to make an arrangement to pay with you – just wait for a letter to arrive. If you ask Lowell they should confirm that they waon’t be adding interest to this, so only offer what you can really afford,
BUT was this 118 money loan affordable? Same rules as for payday loans – if you couldn’t make the monthly repayment without hardship or borrowing elsewhere, the loan was unaffordable. People are winning complaints against 118 money.
It may be worth sending 118 Money
Kieran says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for coming back to me.
It’s been a few weeks & I still haven’t heard from Lowell since 118 told me they have sold the loan. However I will wait to hear from them as I hear sometime that they don’t always get the loan amount right. Wether that be higher or lower. Or something offer a lower settlement figure? Is this sometimes the case from your experience? I was paying in excess of £400/500 per month on this loan
I don’t think I got the last section on your response. I believe it was to do with taking 118 to the obundsman?
I’ve previously done this with a number of payday loans with your help a year or so ago which I was successful on & these were happening at the same time I took the 118 loan which I also done a top up on the loan from 118 halfway through.
Should I raise a case straight away or do I need to contact 118 loans even though my loan has now got transferred to Lowell. Not had this circumstance before & sounds like it could get confusing. Who would be liable for paying back the interest if I was to win the case.
If you could advise that would be much appreciated
Kind Regards
Kieran
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“However I will wait to hear from them as I hear sometimes that they don’t always get the loan amount right.” ah don’t believe everything you see on the internet. You should expect that the correct balance will be transferred to Lowell, anything else is wishful thinking.
yes, I was suggesting making an affordability complaint to 118 money. Same template letter as for payday loans but change it to delete the word payday and make it clear you only had 1 loan. You make the complaint to 118 Money and also tell Lowell what you are doing. If 118 Money agrees to refund (or are told to by the Ombudsman) they will typically buy back your loan from Lowell and remove any interest from it so you only repay what you borrowed.
Kieran Ferguson says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for getting back to me.
I’m still yet to hear anything from Lowell, which it has been a few weeks now. I will wait to hear from them as I hear that some cases they don’t always get things right there end. Wether this means the loan gets high or lower.
Is it true in some cases they will agree a lower fee on the total amount? Would they agree this on a monthly payment plan as well? How negotiable are these? I appreciate each case is different)
I’m not sure I go your whole message as the last section was cut off. Was you talking about going to the financial ombudsman. I was paying 25% of my wages trying to keep up with loan for a number of years, I was also granted a top up on the loan halfway through as well. I had a number of payday loans & other loans at the time to help me get through. A year ago I found your website & you helped me take my cases to financial ombudsman which I was successful for a number of them. Getting back in excess of £5000.
Do I go straight to the financial ombudsman with this case or do I need to send a notification to 118 first? How does this work now that they no longer own the loan? How does this effect things. Who would my case be against? If you could assist that would be much appreciated
Kind Regards
Kieran
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Is it true in some cases they will agree a lower fee on the total amount? Would they agree this on a monthly payment plan as well? ” Yes, Lowell may accept a lower amount in a full and final settlement. This is typically paid as a lump sum or over a period of just a few months, not prolonged repayments
“Do I go straight to the financial ombudsman with this case or do I need to send a notification to 118 first?” it’s exactly like payday loans – you complain to the lender (118 Money in this case) first. If they reject, send it to the Ombudsman after 8 weeks.
“How does this work now that they no longer own the loan? How does this effect things. Who would my case be against?” your complaint still goes to 118 Money because they are the ones who gave you a loan that was unaffordable. If you win the complaint, 118 Money will either take your balance back from lowell and reduce it, or they will get lowell to reduce it.
This may sound complicated but it is OK in practice. As your 118 loan was topped up, this makes it an even better case you are more likely to win.
Kieran Ferguson says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for the quick response. Firstly I would just like to say a massive thank you for this service you offer at no cost. It is extremely helpful & I hope you get the recognition you deserve.
I think I will open a case with 118 Money as it was the same time period of the other cases which I have secured.
If I have anything further I will be sure to be in contact.
Thanks again.
Kieran
Janet says
Dear Sara,
We have a difficult problem that we cannot find any advice about. We were on holiday in America and my husband took seriously ill in January 2018, we have no suitable insurance and now have a bill for $60,000. ( reduced from the insurance price of $141,000 We have been trying to negotiate a settlement figure with the hospital but they are refusing so far. Do you ( or anyone you know) know the laws about how this debt in the USA will be delt with as we live in Scotland. Or what percentage settlement they would expect.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated as the CAB have been unable to advise us.
Thanks Janet
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh dear, do you have any assets such as a house with equity?
Eryk says
Good morning,
I failed to make a few payments for my phone plan. It was cancelled and issued to A1 Comms Ltd with which I agreed to spread my debt into 100 pounds instalments. I was supposed to pay the first payment by 31th of May, but I was not able to make it because I was unemployed. A few days after I have received a mail from Flint Bishop Solicitors that I have 7 days to pay the whole amount – otherwise they will discuss about various way to collect my debts including ccj. I have sent a mail to both A1 and Solicitors with a request to wait until Friday so I repay the instalment I owe and a second instalment a week later to the A1’s account. Is there any chance they both will agreed to that? Will the money I will send not be lost? I’m not sure if my debt wasn’t bought just like you wrote in your article. Thank you in advance for any answer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large is the debt? Do you have other debts or bills that you are behind with? And are you now in work?