If you get a letter saying that Big Bank has sold your debt to Snake & Weasel Debt Collectors you may be very worried.
This article answers questions about what has happened and how it will affect you. Will the debt collection agency (DCA) be horrible to deal with? Is it legal to do this? Do you still have to pay the money? What about your credit record? What if you don’t owe the money/
Has your debt really been sold?
Sometimes a lender will appoint a debt collector to try to collect the money for them. This isn’t a “sale” – you still owe the money to the original lender and none of the rest of this article is relevant.
If you aren’t sure what has happened, the best thing is to contact the original creditor and ask them if your debt has been sold or not. If you are worried and don’t want to talk to the creditor, phone National Debtline for advice about the letter.
Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?
When a sale happens, everything about your debt – all the terms and conditions – remains the same, except that you now owe the money to the debt collector who has bought the debt, not the original creditor.
You won’t be asked to agree to the sale and you can’t object or stop the sale.
You agree to the original terms when you borrowed the money or opened the account. In the small print there will have been a clause that said that the lender can “assign his rights” to a third-party. This is the legal term for a “sale”
(There is one exception here. If your lender subscribes to the Standards of Lending Practice and if they had previously been shown evidence that you have mental health problems, your debt should not have been sold. Go to your local Citizens Advice if you would like help with this situation.)
Your debt can be sold if you are in debt management or you have an arrangement to pay. It may not feel fair if the lender accepted your monthly offer and you are making the payments as agreed, but legally the lender can still sell the debt.
How much was my debt sold for?
That will depend on the state of your account. A debt where you have paid token payments or nothing for a long while may have been sold for very little, just a penny or two in the pound. If you are making regular payments then it will have been sold for more.
You won’t be told what your account was sold for. The sale is a commercial agreement between the seller and the buyer. This may seem annoying, non-transparent or unethical, but the debt collector and the original lender are not doing anything wrong by not telling you the sale price.
The price the debt collector paid for your debt is irrelevant to you. It doesn’t affect the amount that you now owe – you still owe the full amount but now to the debt collector.
If the lender has been paid, why do I owe anything?
The original lender has had the debt settled by the DCA. But you now owe the money to the DCA instead.
Think of this example. You borrow £200 from your sister for some car repairs, agreeing to pay her back £50 a month. But she suddenly needs all the money immediately, so your dad gives your sister the £200 and you repay your dad instead. Same debt, same repayments. You borrowed from your sister but now you don’t owe her anything but you do need to repay your dad.
This is pretty much what has happened with your debt being sold. Your debt stays exactly the same, you just owe it to a different person.
(NB The above example isn’t an attempt to explain the legal contractual obligations – it is an analogy illustrating why you now have to repay someone else. See “Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?” above, for the legal points.)
I want to carry on paying the original lender
You can’t do this. You don’t owe any money to the original lender anymore.
Will the debt collector be difficult?
You may find that debt collectors are as easy to deal with as the original lender. Indeed they may be more likely to freeze interest or accept a full and final settlement offer!
If you had a payment arrangement with the original lender, for example in a debt management plan, you just need to offer the same amount to the debt collector.
There are regulations to make sure that consumer credit debt collectors behave fairly. All debt collectors handling credit card and loan debts have to be regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and if you have problems with one, the Financial Ombudsman will look at your complaint.
Unless you ignore the debt collector, it’s unlikely that you will get phone calls at work.
But I now have two defaults on my credit file!
Debts are usually already defaulted before they are sold. When it is sold the original creditor will mark the debt as settled with a zero balance owing and the debt collector will add the debt with the same default date that the original creditor used.
So now there are now two debts with defaults on your credit record which looks bad.
But the total of all your debts is right – the debt isn’t being double counted because one of these says that there is zero owing. And when your credit rating is calculated, the original debt is ignored, so your credit score will not get worse because you now seem to have two defaults.
If the debt collector adds a default date which is later than the original creditor, this is wrong. What should the Default Date for a debt be? explains how you can get it changed.
Can the debt collector take me to court?
Yes. The debt collector now has all the rights that the original lender had and this includes applying for a County Court Judgment (CCJ).
You don’t have to worry that this is going to happen straight away. The debt collector would rather reach an agreement with you for monthly payments and not have the cost and bother of going to court.
But in 2019 there were more than 100,000 CCJs a month in January-March . Half of these CCJS were for less than £650 – it seems that debt collectors are going to court more often and for smaller debts. So don’t ignore debts or you may get a CCJ.
Has this reset the 6 year period for becoming statute-barred?
No. If the debt isn’t yet statute-barred, the 6 year period carries on, it doesn’t start again after the sale.
But read Statute Barred Debt – Common Questions because statute barring is now more complicated by a recent court ruling in January 2019.
A debt that is already statute-barred will continue to be so after the sale.
The letter doesn’t say what the debt is!
If you get a letter that might be about a debt but it doesn’t give any details at all, it is just asking you to call them, then this is a “fishing expedition”. They don’t really know who the debt belongs to and they are hoping someone will give them their details (date of birth, previous addresses) that will match.
You can usually ignore these vague letters – see Prime Location Services – do I have to call them? for an example.
I don’t owe this money
If the letter mentions a debt which you do not owe – perhaps because you never borrowed from that lender or because you have already repaid it – then don’t ignore the letters but reply telling the debt collector to Prove It!.
You may need to be persistent. It is the debt collector’s job to show you are the borrower. You don’t have to prove you aren’t.
I am in a DMP, what should I do?
If you have a debt management plan run by a company, tell the DMP company. They will switch your monthly payment to go to the debt collector.
If you are running your own DMP, you need to cancel any standing order paying the original lender, offer to pay the same amount to the DCA and ask for their payment details. They may ask you to provide a new Statement of Affairs.
If you have been ignoring this debt, this is a good point to review your whole situation and your possible debt solutions.
A simple overview of your debt options
Threats of court – are debt collectors bluffing?
How to get a payday loan refund!
Kelly says
Hi Sara
Today I got a letter from cabots to inform me that my debt from a NatWest credit card was now with them. I have not had any contact with NatWest for over 5 years. I’ve looked at my credit file and it’s showing 2 debts with NatWest, £659 cc debt, default date 13/05/15 and £1721 current account (this was a joint account overdraft debt) default date 20/07/16 (no contact over 5 years again). I am lucky to be in a position to pay the smaller debt straight away, will it still drop off my credit file next year? Also if I put a plan in place to pay the other debt will that also drop off my credit file in 2022? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
debts with defaults always drop off your credit record after 6 years, if you have paid them or are still paying them.
Cabot may accept a settlement offer from you, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/
jodi says
Hi Sara, can you advise please. Drydensfairfax have sent me a letter saying : our records indicate that our client (creation consumer finance) holds a final charging order over your property. This is correct.
They are saying I dont have a repayment plan and have never made any payments to clear the debt. I have looked through all my debts which there is a lot and can find no payments made to them. I find it strange that they have contacted me now.
Basically they are asking if I can offer them a repayment plan. I was taken to court in December 2002.
What should I do ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You agree they have a charging order? Do you know how large the debt is now? How much equity do you have? What is the rest of your debt situation?
jodi gray says
Yes I know about the charging order, I tried to stop it at the time. The debt is 2.5k, equity approx 65k and my debt situation is dire due to illness. Aprox 40k 20 plus companies jointly with my partner all on agreed repayment plans. Sad situation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, the unsecured debts, how old are these? when did you / your partner default on them?
Your mortgage, when does it end? it is interest only or repayment?
jodi gray says
early 2012
Its a repayment mortgage with 12 years left to run.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you need to include the charging order in your repayment plans. Which may mean reducing what you can pay to the other debts.
One option would be to talk to a debt adviser about asking the unsecured creditors to write off your debts because of your health problems if they are long term. the age of the debts and the low amount you can pay. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/.
That may work with a few, it probably depends on the nature of your health problems.
You could also ask debt collectors for the CCA agreement for any debts which were loans, credit cards or catalogues, not overdrafts of mobiles or utilities. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ for more about this. Again this may work for some of them.
I think you need to talk to a debt adviser about all the details of your situation. Getting an Income & Expenditure sheet you could send to creditors would be very useful. If you have spare income to pay to your creditors, then an IVA could be another option, but with health problems it may be best avoided if the problems could get worse,
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
A says
Hi there,
I have just found out that my debt with Aqua credit card around £3500 has been sold to a debt collection agency. But I am on payment holiday until September so technically cannot be sold until September. I asked if I can stop it from being sold but they said it’s too late – is it too late?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can’t stop them selling your debt, they can sell an account which is not in default.
you can now ask for a further payment break of 3 months if your finances are now still affected by covid-19.
What is your overall financial situation like?
A says
Hi there,
My overall financial situation is poor. I have around 11k (from credit cards) of unsecured debt and slowly, very slowly, chipping away at it through DMP – around £100 across a few cards.
I have two small cases with Ombudsman which I’m waiting to hear back on from a debt cycle of about two years of monthly Payday loans which I have paid back and now working on clearing the credit card debt to be debt free.
I have just recently moved away from the UK to Europe permanently too but have no savings or house.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this Aqua debt is in your DMP? is the interest frozen on it?
A says
Sorry, to clarify the aqua debt was not in a DMP all the rest yes. Apologies if that was misleading
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you ask for the Aqua debt to be included in your DMP – you need the interest frozen on that debt! the fact it is sold to a debt collector really doesn’t matter.
But you also need to think about how long it is going to take to repay such a lot of debt. Have you considered insolvency options? Do you intend to return to the UK?
A says
Thanks Sara,
The Aqua interest was stopped while on the payment holiday which ends in Sept when the dept will be sold. Who/how do I speak to to ensure the interest remains stopped?
I will also look at insolvency options to get a handle on my debts.
Thanks for you help and advice!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Interest normally is stopped when a debt is sold. Ask the debt collector for an affordable payment arrangement and for the interest to be stopped.
Talk to National Debtline about your options – you can phone them from outside the UK, see https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/abroad/Pages/living-outside-the-uk.aspx
Paul says
Hi
My Barclaycard debt was sold to an agency when I missed some payments due to financial difficulties and illness after moving abroad. I was in a bad way. Barclaycard also took 2000 pounds from my Barclays Bank account some months later but I believe before they sold the debt. From memory, this was most of my balance at the time. This was in 2014. The Barclaycard debt then and now is 6000 pounds.
Since then I have received collection letters to my contact address in the UK. At the time, I sought independent advice on how to deal with collection agencies and told to sit tight for a while as Barclaycard had taken the 2000 pounds, which the adviser didn’t understand, and wait until the agency step up their efforts. Nothing has ever changed – I get the usual letters stating the debt amount and reduction offers etc, but never a threat of court action. So, I have never replied.
Like I say, this was now almost 6 years ago. Can I hope this is now just going to disappear? Incidentally, I continue to live abroad and it has been somewhat out-of-sight, out-of-mind, which probably isn’t the best but, they have never made any further efforts bar the occasional letters. So I’ve just hoped all these years.
Go easy on me…
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
From memory, this was most of my balance at the time. This was in 2014. The Barclaycard debt then and now is 6000 pounds.
So you think the balance should really have been about 4000? Did you not dispute thus at the time?
I sought independent advice on how to deal with collection agencies and told to sit tight for a while
Who was this advice from?
Paul says
I didn’t really understand – the balance was 8000 then they took 2000.
Advice was from an online site similar to this.
The debt is dated from November 2014.
Paul says
I was just wondering if they are likely to apply for a CCJ before the debt is six years old in November?
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They may well do.
Paul says
Do you feel it would be better for me to contact the agency now rather than risk a CCJ? My problem is living abroad and not having access to my mail – I only get home every 12-18 months, and won’t be next home til December. I really don’t want to not be able to reply to a CCJ letter, naturally, should I get one. I now, after several years, have the means to make regular repayments, and want to get out of this debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t advise you, I don’t know your full situation. If you need advice, talk to National Debtline who can be phoned from outside the UK https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/abroad/Pages/living-outside-the-uk.aspx
I can make some general points about your options:
– why would you pay a debt when you are disputing the amount is correct by £2000? If you want to start paying, you need to get this resolved first. If necessary send Barclays a Subject Access request asking for a copy of your date for the relevant period (say starting a year before the default)
– is this your only debt? You need to look at your full situation, not treat individual debts as a fire-fighting exercise.
– it is possible (but not certain) that the debt collector doesn’t have the correct paperwork for the debt. You could ask them for this: https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ – if they cant produce the CCA then the debt is unenforceable in court.
– the debt collector may accept a settlement offer if you could afford one.
– doing almost anything apart from paying in full will probably mean telling them where you live.
– if you don’t expect to be back in the Uk for 6 years or more, do you care if you get a CCJ?
Chris says
Hi I applied for a mortgage recently and got rejected even though my credit score with Experian is 920 out of 1000.
I was informed that I had a record from a dept management plan who was originally shop direct catalogue from 2009 it got sold to arrow global ltd in 2014 (they never applied a default) and I carried on paying until 2018 when the dmp was fully paid off.
There was 6 debts on my dmp and all the other debts defaulted me so they dropped off my credit report years ago now I’m left with this 11yrs later still affecting me I’m trying to get shop direct to apply a default back to 2014 when they sold it but there telling me they only default accounts if I wasn’t on a dmp! So because I done the right thing and payed my depts I can’t get a mortgage now I’m so unhappy about this I have logged a complaint and waiting for a reply hoping that they will apply a default to the original account so it drops off my credit report it’s so unfair Iv finally got my finances and saved 15000 for a deposit and have work in front of me for yrs I’m 42 and running out of time.
If I don’t get any luck from them is there anything else I can do? Because I can’t see why 5 out of 6 debts defaulted me and shop direct never? Can I write to the financial ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, if your complaint is not accepted take it to the Ombudsman.
BUT how large is your deposit, what percentage?
Chris says
It was 15 percent for a 77000 house Halifax rejected me ….another wanted 25 percent to even look at accepting me for a bad credit mortgage And 200 just to look at my application knowing I had been on a dmp I didn’t follow through with it because I didn’t have more money I’m saving up and hopefully get this default put on so the debt drops off my file.
It’s so annoying
JB says
Hi,
I have today received a letter from Cabot telling me they own my old credit card account from Natwest. This account history is as follows:
1. Following financial issues 2009-2010 the account was Defaulted and I received a CCJ in 2012
2. A charging order was applied to our house in 2012 following the CCJ
3. The account was paid at £5 per month until December 2019 when I could no longer afford it due to massively changed circumstances (divorce & unemployment)
So the way I see it I have 2 options:
1. Ignore them, I no longer live in the UK and my ex has the house, they have written to me at my current offshore address. I have no financial interest in the house but I do than pay the mortgage, ownership of the house has been transferred to my ex and she is aware of the charging orders with it. It’s an interest only mortgage so the house will have to be sold before the mortgage ends and Natwest will get the balance upon completion (Oct 2028).
2. Respond explaining the above and stating that the only way I will deal with them is following receipt of the following letters:
a. Natwest – Confirmation that the charging order has been removed and that they have sold the account
b. County court – Confirmation that the application to remove the charging order has been received and actioned
c. Land registry – Confirmation that the Natwest charge no longer exists on the property.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t imagine (2) will work.
You can talk to National Debtline from abroad if you want advice on your options: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/abroad/Pages/living-outside-the-uk.aspx
JB says
Hi Sara, Thank you for your reply, I was unable to post the below earlier as the comment was too long.
I should add I have had previous experience dealing with cabot, a few years ago they summonsed me to county court without any prior warning, it was to collect a balance from a credit card account with a credit card provider I had never actually held an account with. I stood my ground and responded to both the court and their solicitor, it took several months and several letters between myself, the court, and the solicitor before cabot withdrew the county court claim. The whole process caused me a large amount of unnecessary stress and anguish and not so much as an apology was offered, they simply said they had no way to prove their case and were therefore withdrawing the claim but that I still owed them the money. As a result of this experience I have an extremely low opinion of cabot and their level of integrity.
Whilst I realise the current situation is different, I don’t understand why Natwest would sell a debt for pennies when they already have a guaranteed means of full payment in a charging order. Natwest are also the mortgage provider and know full well when the expiry of the mortgage is and the situation with my ex-wife. Given the above I believe it’s reasonable to demand removal of the charging order and proof that it has been done so that when the house is sold that payment is not taken.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s up to you, it’s your time you are spending on this… I would be interested to know how it goes.
Jonathan mayers says
Hi if the debt for the charging order was in only your name and the mortgage was in both names then a full charging order can’t be issued it will be a k restriction. Which mean when you sell you just have to notify the person/company that you intend to sell. Your solicitor can do this at the same time as you complete as land registry just asks that they have been notified. But you need a soliton that knows about k restrictions
And once the names have changed on the deeds the charging order/ restriction is removed
Robert says
Hi guys,
Please could you tell what happens if I my offer from SC has been rejected?
What I need to do now?
Shall I send better offer or something else to do?
Thank you for help!
The above creditor has rejected the payment we offered.
You don’t need to worry about this, your plan will continue and we’ll still send a payment to them.
Because TSB BANK PLC OVERDRAFTS have rejected your offer they may continue with their standards collection process, this could include passing your debt to a different company.
To make sure that your plan stays on track you need to let us know if this happens so that we can send payments to the new company instead
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, don’t offer them any more money. StepChange are dividing up your money fairly between your creditors. It isn’t fair to start paying one more because they are sulking!
I suggest you contact TSB in a couple of months time and ask if they are still adding charges. If they aren’t, that’s fine. IF they are, then you need to ask them to stop, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/creditor-wont-freeze-interest/ for more about this.
Debt collectors are usually nicer to deal with in this sort of situation, so if TSB sell the debt this is nothing to worry about, just tell SC who will start paying the debt collector.
JC says
Hi Sara,
I have £24k of 4x credit card debt, and £10k of 2x overdraft debt, all sold and now owned by the same DCA. For almost 10 years I have made monthly £1 gesture payments on all these debts either directly or through a collection agency.
My intention is to request CCA’s for the credit card debts which I hope/expect to be proven unenforceable (as they are all pre 2004). My priority is to then make a F&F settlement on the overdrafts.
My question is, should I treat each debt individually or would my settlement negotiations on the overdrafts benefit from consolidating my debts in some way and making an offer to settle in bulk?
I guess what I’m getting at is, would combining all the debts help me barter a better settlement on the overdafts? (I realise I have less bargaining power with the overdrafts, compared to the credit cards, as they are enforceable).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you sort out the CCAs. And then the overdrafts.
Sophie says
Hi Sara
I am trying to speak to Lending Stream about old loan agreements going back beyond 2012. I have found e-mails with agreement numbers but when I talked to them they say they cannot find them. During the webchat they’ve asked if I had shut down my account as they couldn’t find my e-mail address either.
Would I have a chance of a claim with them if I can prove via my bank account and e-mail correspondence that they have lent to me all these years back?
It does seem to me that they have tried to delete my old records.
Your help would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
LS are likely to say No but the Ombudsman will usually consider other evidence about loans. How many loans did you have from them?
Sophie says
At least 5/6 I can trace via my e-mails going back to 2012. I can also go back to my bank account that far and show that they have taken payments from me and deposited money.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok 5 or 6 is definitely worth doing. This can be a lot of hassle to go through so if you only had a couple of small loans it probably isn’t worth it.
Sophie says
Thanks Sara. I will try my luck ! I know that I paid lots of interest as I rolled over loans and took additional ones out at the same time.
Deloris says
Hi Sara,
I wonder if I would have any success logging a complaint with HSBC about the high loan / credit card debt & bank account overdraft I had with them back in 2012 when I had to enter into a DMP? With a net income of approx £1400 a month I ended up with more than £10,000 of debt at the time, some of which I am still paying today.
Would I have a chance of claiming unaffordability be successful you think? Could I claim for excess charges (overdraft, interest, late payments etc) like it can be done with payday loans? I’m not asking for debt advise just if you think I would have a case to challenge them. Still have my initial DMP proposal letter what states my income at the time and all the debtors I owed money to.
Your opinion would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Dani says
Hi Sara,
I have two defaulted accounts which in my freshers year at uni I stupidly let become defaulted twice over with the debt collectors link financial and cabot!
Last month I paid off the two balances (131.58 and 280.00 respectively) and link financial has dropped off my credit score and showing £0 balance and being closed/settled however the Newday Lmt credit card which was the initial debt that was sold to Link F. is still listed as being in default and owing £131.58. Will Link Financial have automatically informed Newday that I have repaid in full or do I need to contact Newday to prove to them I have paid off the debt? As you’ve said above when a debt gets sold it does not double but they were both previously listed on my account as £131.58 and having paid off the debt I’m really keen to have both amounts cleared.
Cabot’s £240 has not yet cleared to £0 and both Cabot and Aqua (the initial creditor) are listed as being owed £240 each!
Please let me know how to proceed as I’ve worked really hard to be able to pay these debts off and they seem to be having negligible effect on my credit profile!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can ask Newday and Aqua to set the balances to zero.
This will mean that other creditors may be more likely to lend to you. But don’t expect to see your credit score go up, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/defaulted-account-credit-score/
Dani says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for that! Is this a common issue that a debt collector won’t tell the initial creditor that the debt has been paid or will it just take longer for the initial creditor to update their records?
Also, despite both my Cabot and Link Financial now being listed on my Experian as £0, they are still listed under ‘default accounts’ rather than ‘settled accounts’. Should I contact Experian as this is an admin mistake or the debt collectors? Do the amounts typically update before the account status?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the initial creditor should have marked the balance at zero when the debt was sold.
Technically the cabot and link accounts are “satisfied” not 2settled” as there was a default. different reports show these in different ways.
A says
Hi Sarah,
My debt from Aqua £3500 is being sold to a debt collector, do you think instead of selling to the debt they would accept a full and final settlement offer – I do not have 3500, and I know they will not tell me how much it is being sold for, however I could afford to pay possibly 25% (very max 50%). It would be a win win as they were selling the debt anyway?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, you have been told as your debt has already been sold. But a debt collector is MUCH more likely to accept a settlement offer than the original creditor is. Having a debt sold is not bad news!
A says
Thanks you.
A little bit of a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question but how low can we go for a full and final settlement offer – would 25% be laughed at? I have been on long term debt on a DMP paying £20 per month so not going to clear any year soon.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t say. They may be more likely to accept a low offer if you supply an income & expensditure sheet showing you can’t increase your monthly payment and if the offer comes from a someone else, not you.
Roxanne says
I received a letter today from a debt collector for stating I owed almost 5,000 pounds from a provident loan in 2016.
I am so confused and upset because I dont recall this loan.
In2016 I was 18, my mum was seriously ill and lost her job, we were getting by on my jobseekers allowance and food banks. Without her knowledge, I got a provident loan while at a friends house, it was for 250 pounds and I paid it off, my mum was furious that I had gone this and I promised I wouldn’t get another loan.. now 4 yrs later I get this letter saying I owe this huge amount…my mum is still ill and money is tight, I am unemployed, and my mums carer now.. I rang the debt collection agency and told them it’s not my debt, they said they would contact provident and send me an email…..what do I do, so worried.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have done the right thing by telling the debt collector it isn’t your debt. If you can get your old bank statements from the time of the loan they can be useful as proof that you never received the money.
Harry E says
was full time carer for my late mother with dementia had to move – i called NPOWER to pay my bill they advised that i was due a cold fuel allowance of £140 and not to pay it will catch up , Mum passed 2018 i suffered Trauma Anxiety depression took me months of counselling and till this day have mental health problems, at the end of 2019 trying to get my life back on track i noticed my credit score low plus a default it was NPOWER – they sold my debt to a company failed to forward my details that they claim they never my details , i i have not other issue on my file i am fighting this via ombudsman but due to my illness mental health issues i am scared i have not prepared my response it is all very overwhelming was such dark days i can not deal with ir remember dates etc . NPOWER seem to know how to work the system ,i have written to the CEO pleaded begged him not to drag me though stressful matter as i can not cope totally ignores my emails my plight just a standard sorry , i feel i will fail with ombudsman i get that sinking feeling they act with NPOWER , The stupid thing paid debt £!40 but they paying ombudsman £350 , what can i do further? i been refused mortgage even washing machine my only issue is this when experian suppressed the default until NPOWER responded my score went to excellent
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Which Ombudsman is thus with?
Michael says
Hello Sara
I defaulted on a 118118 loan in 2017, they gave me a default for £7,100 on Oct 2017. They then sold this debt onto Lowell who also gave me a default for £7,100 on Oct 2017.
I recently partially settled the debt via Lowell, but it did surprise me when I checked my credit file to see two defaults for the same amounts on my file.
Is that how it should be?
Thank you in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes it is.
BUT read https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. If you can win an affordability complaint against 118 (and a lot of people have) then the default will be removed from 118 and Lowell records. Worth a try?
Luigi says
Hello Sara,
I’ve got into debt for various (bad) things that have happened suddenly. All the debts seem to have been “sold” to debt collection agencies. If I show to my creditors that I don’t have any money through a budget and bank statements, can I still be taken to Court “easily” ? In other words, even if the DCA is quite certain that I can’t pay the debt, can I be taken to Court and can they win the case? What happens then? Or in still other words, what’s the worst case scenario (in the legal world) if I cannot pay the debts, even if the DCA believes I don’t have the money, no savings, living like a destitute, etc? What would a DCA gain by taking to Court someone who cannot pay the debt? I assume either bailiffs will take any resellable possessions. Am I right? Thank you and be well.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Luigi, a debt collector can take you to court, but they are much less likely to if you show them that you have no money to pay them. I suggest you talk to national Debtline on 0808 808 4000 as they can help you look at your o[tions and what you can say to debt collectors.
Bailiffs can’t come round until the case has been to court. And they can’t take basic personal possessions such as clothes and essentials.
Jane says
Hello Sara – my husband and I came off our DMP in October last year with Stepchange and sent out letters requesting to CCAs to our creditors. Most sent letters saying the debts were unenforceable and since then we haven’t heard from many at all. IDEM are the owners of two separate debts – one enforceable which we are continuing to pay monthly and the second acknowledged unenforceable. They call and write regularly about the unforceable one, I’ve explained we’re waiting for the credit agreement and have a letter from them telling me it’s currently unenforceable but they still say they want to set up a payment plan so we go round in circles. That’s fine except I don’t like the letter I’ve just received and not sure what I should do. It said ‘failure to make contact with us may result in the following: 1) a representative may be instructed to visit your property 2) your account may be place with an external debt collection agency 3) our litigation department may instigate court proceedings.
We have spoken to them several times since October – we have ignored a lot of what we sent but I don’t think there’s anything else to say at the moment is there? Should I be worried about this latest letter – not sure whether to call or not and go round in the same circles. Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did this recent letter acknowledge that the debt is unenforceable?
Jane says
No it didn’t – they acknowledged it on the phone but don’t ever acknowledge it in the follow up letters
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Gotcha!
The regulator’s rule CONC 13.1.6 (4) says that when someone has made a request for a copy of their CCA agreement and it cannot be found, all future requests for payment from a creditor should make it clear that the debt is unenforceable.
I suggest you email them a complaint – put COMPLAINT in the subject line to mke this clear, and say something along the lines of (make sure it is absolutely right for your situation, don’t just use my suggestion)
“I am complaining about the requests for payment I have been getting for [some reference number or a description of this debt].
You acknowledged on dd/mm/yy that you cannot currently produce the CCA agreement for this debt and that it is currently unenforceable.
I understand you can continue to ask for payment to it. But the FCA’s CONC rule 13.1.6 says you have to make it clear in every communication that the debt is unenforceable.
You haven’t been doing this. For example the latest letter dated dd/mm/yy doesn’t not mention that the debt is unenforceable. And it is also misleading and threatening as it suggests that you may start court proceedings when you should not.
I would like these inaccurate and threatening communications to stop. If I receive any more that do not expressly acknowledge the debt is unenforceable I will be complaining to the Financial Ombudsman and asking for compensation for this harassment.”
Jane says
Thank you Sara! That’s brilliant. I knew you’d be able to help – you’ve helped me so much through some very difficult times – I’m very grateful :)
Ted says
Dear Sara
I have an old credit card debt of £14k originally from Lloyds and sold on to Cabot Financial. It defaulted in 2012 and I have been paying it off at £1 a month.
I sold my house last year so on my credit file my old mortgage now shows as paid off. I have £50k in the bank from the sale of my house but I need that as a deposit for a new place to live.
Cabot Financial wrote to me last week advising that based on recent checks they believe I can increase my monthly payment to them to £76. They also say in the letter that this account may be reported on my credit file. They say if they do not hear from me in 14 days, they will consider alternative means to recover the balance, which may include placing my account with their solicitors.
I thought I only had to pay £1 a month forever and this letter has brought back all the trauma of the situation I was in in 2012.
Questions
Can I get away with just paying the £1 a month or can they force me to disclose my income and outgoings and pay whatever they say I can afford to pay?
Can they place this debt on my credit file even though the original debt defaulted in 2012?
Should I ask for a final settlement or would this likely be a high value if not all the value of the loan as they can see from my credit file what the final balance of my mortgage was and see from the land registry what I sold my house for.
What would you recommend I do?
Thank you for your help with this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I get away with just paying the £1 a month or can they force me to disclose my income and outgoings and pay whatever they say I can afford to pay?
This debt will never be statute barred as you have been paying it. The fact it isn’t on your credit record now is irrelevant. Cabot can go to court to get a CCJ if you don’t make them a reasonable offer.
Can they place this debt on my credit file even though the original debt defaulted in 2012?
No.
Should I ask for a final settlement or would this likely be a high value if not all the value of the loan as they can see from my credit file what the final balance of my mortgage was and see from the land registry what I sold my house for.
I doubt you will now get a cheap F&F. I suppose you could try.
What would you recommend I do?
Is this your only problem debt?
Are you in the process of buying a house?
Ted says
Hi Sara
Yes this is my only debt and no I am not currently in the process of buying a new place, I was but the sale fell through so now I can thinking about renting until I find something. I am staying with friends temporarily and my stuff is in storage.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you don’t really have a good reason not to pay them in full…
… unless they can’t produce the CCA agreement for the debt. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/. That is not guaranteed to work, but for a debt that old there is a chance it might. Worth a try?
Ted says
Thanks Sara, I shall try that and see how I go.
Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.
Andrew b says
Hey guys, ive had a nightmare with a company for a while “Perfect home” story is i always paid my hp on time every week for 2 years. One week i rung to pay the local store no answer, i drove to the store and the store was closed… I rang the number online no answer, so anyway i waited for a letter/phone call/email and nothing. Earlier this year i went to a mortgage advisor, when they was looking at my credit file they seen perfect home had been marking my file with countless missed payments. My mortgage adviser found there number with FCA, i didnt have this knowledge… We rang they told us that the store is now online only and that i needed to bring months of missed payments upto date, i declined because this is not my fault. Since the call they sent a letter saying the debt has gone to the debt recovery agency… Ive checked my file and perfect home are still marking missed payments on my file, Is this right if the debt is nl longer with the original creditors
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Why didn’t you follow this up before? If you just googled Perfect Home you could have found a phone number?
Andrew b says
I did the Google number was that of the old branch number, it changed when they fully set up online only
plus it says in my 1st comment that i tried the online number the only way i could contact was with a number from the fca
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, so I suggest that you put in a complaint to PH that you had no way of paying them and they failed to contact you so it is unfair that your credit record has been harmed. But you do need to pay the arrears.
Colette says
Hi Sara.
I have been paying Lowell Portfolio for a debt that they purchased in July 2013 from Black Horse Finance. The original debt was for HP in 2001. We have been paying every month since July 2013, initially £20 per month but increased to £80 per month from Oct 2018.
I have recently discovered that Lowell would have purchased our debt for a much smaller amount than we owed. Our balance with Lowell is at present £4900. Would it be possible to ask if they would accept a final payment of 25% of this amount?
Thank you in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can offer a full and final settlement to Lowell.
BUT you might want to first consider if Lowell have the correct paperwork for that ancient debt… https://debtcamel.co.uk/settlements-old-debts-cca/
Susan says
Hi Sara, I was just wondering if you can advise me. I have a debt that was sold to Robinson Way some time ago. They state that I owe £5,251.00 to HFUKH1L (Ex HSBC Bank PLC).
I asked for a CCA and they sent back a letter stating that HSBC have advised that the account relates to a #First Direct Bank Account and Amalgamated Credit Cards. They stated that they have attached a copy of the formal overdraft facility letter and original credit agreement for the card. What I did receive was a copy of the Overdraft Facility Letter and a copy of the Gold Card Application form from First Direct, dated 23/02/2005.. It does have my signature on, but no amount, and no account number. The only info on the application form was my name and old address and 4 numbers of a sort code? Is this a proper CCA? Also, NO statement of account was enclosed, is this normal? Any advice would be so appreciated. Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See How can you tell if it is right? section in https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/
Simon says
Hi Sara,
I have a unaffordablity claim with the Ombudsman regarding Aqua credit card, but have had a ccj claim form today from Lowell. I have contacted Lowell and explained that I have a claim with the ombudsman but they say that the form cannot be retracted. Any advice?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did they send you a Letter Before Claim – it would have looked something like this: https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/
Where is your FOS complaint – waiting for an adjudicator or an Ombudsman?
Simon says
Hi Sara,
I did get a letter from Lowell but because I had not heard from Aqua so ignored it. I have phoned the FOS and it is not even with an adjudicator yet. Their advice was to fill the form in telling them that it is waiting for an adjudicator.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a shame – it would have been much easier to get things halted at that earlier letter point.
Their advice was to fill the form in telling them that it is waiting for an adjudicator.
FOS advised you to fill in what form – the court papers?
Have you previously asked Lowell for the CCA agreement for the card?
Simon says
Hi Sara,
Yes the claim form from the court. I don’t know what the CCA agreement is?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The CCA agreement is the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the debt. if you had asked for it before, when you were sent the Letter before Claim, and Lowell could not produce it, they would not have gone to court :(
Now you are in the much more complicated situation of having to defend the court case. You can also ask for it to be “stayed” until FOS reach a decision. But as you don’t know if you will win your FOS case, you also have to try to come up with a defence. And there are strict timescales to submit that defence where the clock has started running.
I do not give advice on court cases in progress. You can talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. And / or post on the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues. Legal Beagles will tell you all about the asking for the CCA now – it can be done, it is just more complicated – but push them for help on how to get the case stayed pending the FOS decision as well, they will see a lot fewer of those cases.
If you follow Legal Beagle advice and take this as far as you can, it will take a long while to come to court even if the case is not stayed. Your aim here is to slow everything down to give a chance for a FOS decision.
If you do end up with a CCJ and you win the FOS case, you can ask for the CCJ to be set aside.
Susan Carrington says
Hello again Sara,
I need some more of your advice and help. Further to my previous mail, I received 2 letters today (19th Sept.) from Robinson Way. The first one states that after investigating my complaint, they are prepared to accept my offer of £1,000. I made this offer due to the fact that I was receiving phone calls and letters from them and felt that I couldn’t pay the £1,631 that they were asking for. Since then, I contacted Step Change, and am waiting to hear back from them. What I also did, was write to Robinson Way asking them for copies of the CCA’s along with Statement of Accounts.
The 2nd letter that also arrived today stated “Further to your Consumer Credit Act request for the above account, (they put a Reference No. on the letter, but it does not relate to ANY correspondence that I have ever received from them) we write to advise that your request has been forwarded to our client, who will respond in due course. Your £1.00 fee will be returned to you under separate cover”.
The Postal Order that I sent was returned with the letter. I can’t do anything with the Postal Order as it is made payable to Robinson Way and was crossed.
Is it normal practice for a Debt Collection Agency to return a Postal order, and the fact that the reference number on their letter is not recognisable to me. I have not received any CCA’s or Statements of Accounts..
I am desperate for some advice Sara.
Thank You in advance for any help that you can give.
Susan.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Lots of creditors don’t cash the £1 cheques/postal orders.
So you don’t want to settle the debt instead you are setting up a DMP with StepChange?
Susan Carrington says
Hi Sara,
Not sure what the best thing to do is. If I set up a DMP with Step Change, could they revert back to wanting the £1,651? Also, not had any of the CCA’s from Robinson Way. (They stated that my request has been forwarded to their client, who will respond in due course). Would it be advisable to wait until (or if!) I receive them. (CCA’s) Robinson Way have given me 30 days to allow me to contact them and set up my payment of £1,000 to settle the account.
I don’t want to make payment and then find that First Direct cannot produce the CCA’s, as these debts go back pre-2007, and that maybe the debts are unenforceable. Also, as I have massive mental health issues, this whole thing is just exacerbating my anxiety and depression.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s hard to guess what RW will do. One way forward would be to set up a DMP with StepChange (I assume you have other problem debts as well?) and wait and see if the CCA is produced, if it isn’t, after a couple of months then tell StepChange you want to stop paying this debts. If it is produced, then you can again offer the settlement.
James says
Hi Sarah,
I had 6 Loans with Lending Stream between May -15 to August 15. These have now been subsequently sold onto Lantern DCA.
Over the last few years I’ve struggled with long term illness and the bereavement of two close family members. I am only now sorting myself out and getting back on top of things.
The issue with these loans is that Lending Stream has recorded down incorrect information. They have me listed down as Miss (I am a Mr.) and they have recorded my D.O.B as massively wrong. It’s about a Decade out.
Do you think it’s best that I raise an unaffordability complaint or do you think I use the fact that this information is recorded incorrectly to get my Defaults removed from my Credit File? Because the information is incorrect I have no way of speaking to Lantern because they use this info to verify customers under Data Protection. I’m stuck in a Catch 22 situation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So I suggest 2 things.
First you send Lending Steam an affordability complaint. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. If you can win this, LS will have to sort out the problem with Lantern.
And second you send Lantern an email saying they have a debt showing on your credit record – attach a copy of it – but you are unable to get through their telephone identity checks. Say they either need to delete the debt from your credit record if it is not yours or allow you to talk to them about it. Give your name, date of birth and postal address.