If you get a letter saying that Big Bank has sold your debt to Snake & Weasel Debt Collectors you may be very worried.
This article answers questions about what has happened and how it will affect you. Will the debt collection agency (DCA) be horrible to deal with? Is it legal to do this? Do you still have to pay the money? What about your credit record? What if you don’t owe the money/
Has your debt really been sold?
Sometimes a lender will appoint a debt collector to try to collect the money for them. This isn’t a “sale” – you still owe the money to the original lender and none of the rest of this article is relevant.
If you aren’t sure what has happened, the best thing is to contact the original creditor and ask them if your debt has been sold or not. If you are worried and don’t want to talk to the creditor, phone National Debtline for advice about the letter.
Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?
When a sale happens, everything about your debt – all the terms and conditions – remains the same, except that you now owe the money to the debt collector who has bought the debt, not the original creditor.
You won’t be asked to agree to the sale and you can’t object or stop the sale.
You agree to the original terms when you borrowed the money or opened the account. In the small print there will have been a clause that said that the lender can “assign his rights” to a third-party. This is the legal term for a “sale”
(There is one exception here. If your lender subscribes to the Standards of Lending Practice and if they had previously been shown evidence that you have mental health problems, your debt should not have been sold. Go to your local Citizens Advice if you would like help with this situation.)
Your debt can be sold if you are in debt management or you have an arrangement to pay. It may not feel fair if the lender accepted your monthly offer and you are making the payments as agreed, but legally the lender can still sell the debt.
How much was my debt sold for?
That will depend on the state of your account. A debt where you have paid token payments or nothing for a long while may have been sold for very little, just a penny or two in the pound. If you are making regular payments then it will have been sold for more.
You won’t be told what your account was sold for. The sale is a commercial agreement between the seller and the buyer. This may seem annoying, non-transparent or unethical, but the debt collector and the original lender are not doing anything wrong by not telling you the sale price.
The price the debt collector paid for your debt is irrelevant to you. It doesn’t affect the amount that you now owe – you still owe the full amount but now to the debt collector.
If the lender has been paid, why do I owe anything?
The original lender has had the debt settled by the DCA. But you now owe the money to the DCA instead.
Think of this example. You borrow £200 from your sister for some car repairs, agreeing to pay her back £50 a month. But she suddenly needs all the money immediately, so your dad gives your sister the £200 and you repay your dad instead. Same debt, same repayments. You borrowed from your sister but now you don’t owe her anything but you do need to repay your dad.
This is pretty much what has happened with your debt being sold. Your debt stays exactly the same, you just owe it to a different person.
(NB The above example isn’t an attempt to explain the legal contractual obligations – it is an analogy illustrating why you now have to repay someone else. See “Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?” above, for the legal points.)
I want to carry on paying the original lender
You can’t do this. You don’t owe any money to the original lender anymore.
Will the debt collector be difficult?
You may find that debt collectors are as easy to deal with as the original lender. Indeed they may be more likely to freeze interest or accept a full and final settlement offer!
If you had a payment arrangement with the original lender, for example in a debt management plan, you just need to offer the same amount to the debt collector.
There are regulations to make sure that consumer credit debt collectors behave fairly. All debt collectors handling credit card and loan debts have to be regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and if you have problems with one, the Financial Ombudsman will look at your complaint.
Unless you ignore the debt collector, it’s unlikely that you will get phone calls at work.
But I now have two defaults on my credit file!
Debts are usually already defaulted before they are sold. When it is sold the original creditor will mark the debt as settled with a zero balance owing and the debt collector will add the debt with the same default date that the original creditor used.
So now there are now two debts with defaults on your credit record which looks bad.
But the total of all your debts is right – the debt isn’t being double counted because one of these says that there is zero owing. And when your credit rating is calculated, the original debt is ignored, so your credit score will not get worse because you now seem to have two defaults.
If the debt collector adds a default date which is later than the original creditor, this is wrong. What should the Default Date for a debt be? explains how you can get it changed.
Can the debt collector take me to court?
Yes. The debt collector now has all the rights that the original lender had and this includes applying for a County Court Judgment (CCJ).
You don’t have to worry that this is going to happen straight away. The debt collector would rather reach an agreement with you for monthly payments and not have the cost and bother of going to court.
But in 2019 there were more than 100,000 CCJs every month. Half of these CCJS were for less than £650 – it seems that debt collectors are going to court more often and for smaller debts. So don’t ignore debts or you may get a CCJ.
Has this reset the 6 year period for becoming statute-barred?
No. If the debt isn’t yet statute-barred, the 6 year period carries on, it doesn’t start again after the sale.
But read Statute Barred Debt – Common Questions because statute barring is now more complicated by a recent court ruling in January 2019.
A debt that is already statute-barred will continue to be so after the sale.
The letter doesn’t say what the debt is!
If you get a letter that might be about a debt but it doesn’t give any details at all, it is just asking you to call them, then this is a “fishing expedition”. They don’t really know who the debt belongs to and they are hoping someone will give them their details (date of birth, previous addresses) that will match.
You can usually ignore these vague letters – see Prime Location Services – do I have to call them? for an example.
But I don’t owe this money
If the letter mentions a debt which you do not owe – perhaps because you never borrowed from that lender or because you have already repaid it – then don’t ignore the letters but reply telling the debt collector to Prove It!.
You may need to be persistent. It is the debt collector’s job to show you are the borrower. You don’t have to prove you aren’t.
I am in a DMP, what should I do?
If you have a debt management plan run by a company, tell the DMP company. They will switch your monthly payment to go to the debt collector.
If you are running your own DMP, you need to cancel any standing order paying the original lender, offer to pay the same amount to the DCA and ask for their payment details. They may ask you to provide a new Statement of Affairs.
If you have been ignoring this debt, this is a good point to review your whole situation and your possible debt solutions.
A simple overview of your debt options
Threats of court – are debt collectors bluffing?
Ask for the CCA agreement for old debts
Mike_p says
I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask. Paypal credit have sent me a default notice giving me until 1st December to get up to date, but today I’ve learnt that they have already passed it to Moorcroft to handle collection (Moorcroft say Paypal still own the debt). Are Paypal allowed to do this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes – they are just asking a debt collection specialist to collect the debt on their behalf.
This isn’t anything to worry about.
If you need a payment arrangement and to have the interest on the debt frozen, tell Moorcroft.
Kat says
Hiya – I don’t know if this is the right place to write this ?
My son rented a place with a couple of friends for a year in 2018 but moved out feb 2019 – as it wasn’t working out . I sent a letter to the Council confirming all the details for his hb etc and that was all ended officially with them and the letting agents .
Whilst there, they had had Sky put in and he agreed to put it in his name . When he left it was agreed that the other two would carry on with sky and the details were all changed over to one of the other lads bank accounts .
Two years later out of the blue he has received a bill from a Credit Agency re unpaid sky amounts in his name for that old address sent to our home address ,
We are unable to contact the other two lads and as my son and his girlfriend want to buy a house together next year , they are really worried what they should do . All’s his bills etc were paid up to date so it’s pretty shabby what the other two have done but what is the best thing to do now ?
Take care and thank you for your help.
K
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the details were all changed over to one of the other lads bank accounts .
Did he actually see that that was done? Any confirmation from Sky?
Kat says
Hiya ,
Together they all changed the bank details on the sky portal and then the password so only the two other lads knew it . He though that was all that needed to be done .
Many thanks
Cathy xx
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah, so he never told Sky… they still think he is liable for the whole contract.
I suggest he talks to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about his options.
Tom says
Hi Sara,
can I dispute a credit card debt and ask for a CCA if I’m already paying an arranged payment to Mortimer Clarke? I’ve been sent letter before claim and I rang them up instead of sending it back and never had a chance to dispute it as I was straight away forced to arrange a payment plan.
Can I possibly stop the payments and ask for CCA now to see if the debt is enforceable?
Thank you for you help,
kind regards,
Tom
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who are Mortimer Clarke collecting on behalf of?
Tom says
Hi Sara,
they are collecting on behalf of Cabot.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then asking for the CCA may be a good idea.
There is no need to halt your payments to do this – just ask. If they haven’t found the CCA in a couple of months, then you can stop paying.
Hols2027 says
Hi, I’m looking for some advice please. We can no longer afford to pay our debts due to a huge paycut my husband has had to take and our 0% ending and we are now drowning. We have a Mortgage but there’s no equity. I have been reading up on a lot of forums and am considering either a DMP or DPP as we are in Scotland. I have read we should wait until our accounts default and get an emergency fund behind us and then apply either through SC or CAB or do it ourselves. We have never missed any payments but have now cancelled all our DD, i am not sleeping at all as i a am worried sick what will happen and if we get taken to Court or get CCJs. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you need to talk to a Scottish adviser about your options. See https://www.advicescotland.com/ – their webchat is good.
Sally says
I have just found out that an old debt with Welcome Finance that I really thought I had paid was sold to PRA who are telling me I paid until 31 October 2018 and then apparently I stopped paying, I have not been chased by PRA and its only because I found out a CCJ was issued by them in 2017 has caused me an issue this week, so I had to contact the court to find out about this debt they suddenly produced another.
I had no idea about the CCJ in 2017 or this other debt still being owed in 2018, and now they are suddenly chasing yet I’ve had nothing for almost 5 years, is there anything I can now do. Both debts would have been unaffordable at the time as I was badly in debt and these will both be for extortionate interest. The 2017 CCJ apparently is Vanquis credit card.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If this is a CCJ that you knew nothing about, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether you may have a case for setting it aside. And about the rest of your current finances.
Sally says
Thanks Sara, do you mean talk to them about the fact PRA have never chased me either on the debts so I was unaware of it all?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a part of it. If PRA had contacted you, you might have let them know you had moved so the court papers went to the wrong address.
Michael says
Does anyone have experience of the strategy followed by Narwest when a charge card customer defaults? Do they ever accept partial settlements?
A charge card is not a credit card
Chanel says
Hi,
I’m looking for some advice for my partner. Prior to our relationship he has a Barclays credit card he defaulted in this and it got sold to a debt collector. He had an option for a you pay we pay scheme (he pays an amount a month and they also pay some giving him a discounted balance) the following day he was going to accept this offer but it was no longer showing I contacted hoist finance and sent them screen shots of the offer. In which I didn’t get a reply.. after a few months had past (not thinking about it) he received a CCJ I rang to ask if a payment plan was Available to stop the ccj to them directly and they said no and to fill them out the form from the courts and payment plan of £100 was agreed when I called hoist finance to make this payment the man on the end of the phone had noticed we had a few problems including the non response we’d asked to be contacted by email and letters were still being sent l so he said he’d put the account on hold and raise a complain, fast forward I got an email
Stating they believe they weren’t in the wrong even though the lack of response and not replying by our chosen contact
Method. Do we have a case here if we were to contact the financial ombudsman, we’re more than happy to pay the amount disregarding the you pay we pay scheme and just want the CCJ removed
Thanks for reading
Chanel
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did he ever get a Letter Before Action (may have been called a Letter before Claim?)? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ for what one looks like.
Chanel Dodd says
I believe he did and this was the letter I called straight away about and hoist finance said unless we could pay the full amount and ccj would be issued x
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh it is a shame you did not take debt advice at that point.
I don’t know if you will win your FOS complaint but this seems well worth trying – Hoist have been very unhelpful when you were trying to make a payment arrangement.
Chanel Dodd says
It’s just a nightmare really I contacted them straight away and they just said there was nothing to be done at all I think I’ll contact the FOS Then do I need to notify
Hoist that I’m doing this? X
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you have made a complaint to Hoist and they have rejected it?
Chanel Dodd says
I suppose so I guess as the man told me he’d would put a complaint in and escalate it but now they’ve come back saying there not at fault Thankyou
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They came back in writing? That should hav3 told you you Can take the complaint to the Ombudsman.
Elle says
Hi not sure if this was the best place on the site to ask, partner is in a DMP for around 4K we are wanting to buy a house this yeAr. We are thinking of using some of the deposit to repay the DMP now and recoup the money over next few months in savings. My query is do you have to pay full amount or can you make offers to company’s to settle? And what would a reasonable offer be? How would we settle via the debt management company or original lender? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago did the DMP start?
Are these debts showing as defaulted on their credit record? How long ago are the default dates?
Have they been sold to debt collectors or are they still with the original lender?
Elle says
Hi thank you, they have been sold, show as defaults. DMP been in place for about 1 year not sure of dates of defaults would that impact any offer we could make?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, debt collectors the debt were sold to are MUCH more likely to accept an offer.
Best to offer directly to the current debt collector.
But with recent defaults (you need to find out the dates – check your credit records) then you will have problems getting a mortgage even if you settle them now. The normal rule of thumb is that a default has to be more than 3 years old AND settled for more than a year before you will be considered for a mortgage at an OK rate by a high street lender.
So the sooner the debts are settled the better. But you may still have to wait a year after that.
How large is the deposit?
Elle says
Thank you so much. Do you have any idea what a reasonable offer in terms of percentage of the debt is I don’t wanna offer too much. I know there will be lots of factors that affect it but a baseline idea would be great as I’ve never been in this position with debt collectors
Also Lowell’s for example have multiple accounts for him from different company’s he owes money to – if you offer do you make an offer to settle them all or do you have to make settlement offers on them all individually?
Deposit currently have 15k but will have at least 20k by time we buy we can’t buy until end of year as I can’t withdraw my LISA until then – will probably use help to buy too to reduce amount we borrow from mortgage provider
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You said the DMP has been going for a year. Was that when you defaulted on the debts, or was that earlier? If they were only defaulted a year ago, you may well have to pay 75% to settle them. And some creditors may insist on the lot.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
read https://debtcamel.co.uk/full-final-settlement-rejected/ this looks at why a settlement offer may be rejectd – it mat help you think about how good your offer will look to a creditor.
John says
Hi my debt to provident was sold on can I dispute this as provident are wiping all debts as I’m in a dmc as well
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They only wiped debts that had not been sold.
Have you made a complaint to the Scheme? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/provident-scheme-claim-refund/ for how to do this.
This has to be done by the end of February so this is now urgent.
If you win the complaint you may get some refund, it may not be huge, but the default with Provident and with the debt collector would have to be removed – whihc can be worth more than a small cash refund.
Debi says
Hi Sara,
You’ve given given me good advice in the past so my Cabot debt is not enforceable, no CCA with a letter confirming, they have been contacting me recently until I told them that I am still awaiting the CCA, it has been quiet now for about 4 weeks but I have just received 2 letters one was from Cabot saying that they have sold it on and the other from Ruthbridge stating that they have bought the debt. On checking I have just noticed that the reference number is wrong, the amount is wrong and I have never had a credit card from capital one everything is wrong what do you suggest please
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Email Cabot and Ruthbridge saying you dispute the debt because you have never had an account with Capital One. I wouldn’t mention the other Cabot debt as it clearly isn’t that one.
Antony says
I was in a debt management plan, which I have now come out of, I contacted myjar for a final settlement in September last year, I paid what they said I owed and had paid off the rest through my dmp, my loan was staying on my credit file, so I contacted them 3 weeks ago, they said I still owe them £74.50 which I dispute, then I get an email saying my debt has been sold to perch capital, and aci, and it says i owe £650 not the 74.50! When i try and contact myjar they are not interested, in my mind I don’t owe anything, any advice would be welcome
Sara (Debt Camel) says
contacted myjar for a final settlement in September last year, I paid what they said I owed
was this in writing?
Antony says
I had it on an email, but can’t find it! I have an email from them on the 9th December saying my loan is closed, then I received the following
We apologise for any miscommunication that has taken place previously. Unfortunately it was miscommunicated that your account was closed, please kindly note this is not the case.
We received a payment from yourself on 30/09/2021 for the amount of £334.04, you made us aware that this was a settlement payment. Unfortunately after a thorough review of your account, there was not a settlement payment agreed as we did not receive the settlement form for the complaint and therefore the reduced balance could not be applied.
Please kindly note on the 11/08/2021 we advised you that your outstanding balance was £408.53.
Please also note that as no settlement figure was agreed the money you paid onto the account of £334.04 only reduced your balance. Please kindly note you have an outstanding balance of £74.49.
The next contact I had was an email saying my debt had been sold, and the debt company saying I owe £650!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did they ask you to complete a settlement form for the complaint?
Have you made an affordability complaint to the administrators?
Antony says
No, they didn’t ask me to do anything, when I went into my dmp then said they would cancel all the interest on my loan as it was unaffordable at the time, I am guessing they are making me pay the interest now, I don’t get how if I owed them still nobody contacted me to tell me, the last contact I had was my loan is closed in full, now I owe a debt collection company £650 through no fault of my own when I have just cleared all my debts! I can’t even put in a complaint as it won’t matter now they have sold my debt on
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you do two things.
First send a complaint to Myjar saying they never asked you to complete any settlement form and they are behaving unreasonably.
Second tell Perch/ACI that you dispute the debt as you made an agreed settlement with my jar and forward them a copy of the 9th December email saying the loan is closed.
George says
Hi Sara,
Just wondered if you had any suggestions on an old debt that’s been sold on to a few agency’s and now lantern is demanding payment.
The original creditor were chequecenter£140 and cash choice£230 combined totalling to £370. This was in 2012/13.
I believe this is status barred, any suggestions on the next step would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you made any payments since 2013 to any of the debt collectors?
Denise says
Hi Sara
my debt has been sold by my bank to another company which I have reached an agreement for payments with – but the bank still has a charge on my house for the original debt is this legal if they have received the payment for my debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The charge will probably be transferred to the debt purchaser.
Denise says
The charge is still in the name of the bank on the land registry
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes but it may be transferred. Does this matter to you at the moment?
Steven says
Hi Sara,
I defaulted on my Nationwide credit card in March 2020, at the of December 2020 my debt was passed onto ARC Europe.
Nationwide is still showing on my credit file, does this mean ARC are collecting the debt on behalf of Nationwide? Or have ARC bought the debt from Nationwide?
They have sent me a letter reviewing the current agreement, I currently pay them £29 a month against the total debt of £4,500.
Would it be best to leave it as it currently is, or would it be better if I tried to settle with them?
Currently money is tight but I have received a one off bonus from my work but it doesn’t come anywhere near the full amount so I am wonder what percentage should I be offering the DCA? or would it be better for me to contact Nationwide directly to see what they would accept?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The letter from ARC will normally make it clear whether they own the debt or are collecting on behalf of Nationwide. What phrase does it use?
What is the rest of your financial situation like? Do you have other defaulted debts? Any debts that haven’t defaulted that you are currently paying?
Is interest frozen on this debt?
Are you up to date with your bills, because if money is tight at the moment, then it may be going to get worse from April when Enewrgy bills, National Insurance, council tax, broadband, mobiles etc are all going up for most people. And petrol and food prices are also getting higher?
Steven says
Thank you for the quick response.
It doesn’t really give a lot away, it states “Regarding Nationwide Building Society”
And then goes on to say :
“Dear X,
Thank you for the payments you have made so far. When we agreed to accept instalments to clear this debt, we informed you that the arrangement would be subject to a periodic review.”
Not sure if that helps at all? I’ve only ever had 2 letters regarding this and one from Nationwide informing that ARC would be dealing with my account (or to similar words, I can’t remember exactly).
All my other debts the interest is frozen, in total I have 2 credit cards(including Nationwide)
And 2 loans, 1 of which is maturing and ends in August.
The fact that everything is going up is a contributing factor as to why I have reached out for advice.
What would happen if I just kept on paying the £29? Would it continue until its paid off which by quick maths would be 12 – 13 years? Or would ARC look to resolve it sooner rather than later?
Thank you again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tha5 sounds like they are collecting for Nationwide. In this case, the6 probably won’t accept a low settlement offer.
It’s normal for creditors (and their debt collectors) to check every few years if you can pay more.
Do you have other debts that you are currently paying normally? Others in a payment arrangement?
A defaulted debt where interest is frozen is just about your bottom priority to make a settlement arrangement with. One thing you could do is reply that you are finding money very tight at the moment and are worried that in April when a lot of bills go up you made need to reduce what you pay them.
Carl says
Hello,
I have a debt that Lowell bought from Shop Direct. The original debt credit agreement dates from 2015. I wanted to do a full and final settlement with Lowell of £750 but they wouldn’t accept as I am making regular payments and can afford these for the foreseeable even though I have made them aware of a potential redundancy and the increasing living costs which are eroding my available income.
I have asked for a copy of the original agreement of the debt with ShopDirect. Is there anything else I can do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
asking Lowell for the CCA agreement is a good move here.
The debt – had SD increased your credit limit to a level that was unsustainably high?
what other debts do you have at the moment – any you are not paying anything to? any others on payment arrangements? any other you haven’t defaulted on? you are up to date with all bills at the moment?
Carl says
Thanks Sara
Yes it was a while ago but from memory I had significant increases over a short period of time and I wasn’t earning much at the time.
I have a few others which are on payment arrangements which I have kept up to date on the agreed payments.
All my other bills are currently up to date.
The lowell debt is a default that is due to fall off my credit record by 2024.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
in that case as well as asking for the CCA agreement, I suggest you send Shop Direct an affordability complaint – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ for more about what these are and a template letter you can use. Don’t be put off id SD reject this, or say it was too long ago – send the complaint to the Finacial Ombudsman where a lot are being won.
Carl says
Thanks for your help and advice on this Sara, I will wait to see what comes through on CCA and submit a claim as you suggest.
Really appreciate it!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would kick off the affordability claim now. It can take several months before its clear whether the CCA can be produced or not.
Carl says
Thanks I will do!
If they can’t produce the CCA what are my options?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can just stop paying, the debt will drop off your credit record in 2024
Carl says
This has been so helpful! Thank you again Sara.
Edward says
Dear Sara
In 2006 I had a loan debt for £!7,000 which due to loss of income resulting in inability to pay caused me to enter into an IVA in after the job 2007. I managed the payments but after the job loss defaulted in 2008 and subsequently moved house. Today I received a debt collection letter advising they had taken over the debt and asking for payment of the £15454.60 balance.
I am an 82 year old recovering from a stroke with severe mobility problems. My only source of income is State pension, Pension Guarantee Credit , Housing Benefit for my rent as well as Attendance Allowance and Disability benefit in with the Pension Credit. The have to pay for my daily carer.
Can you please advise me what to do. I have no assets at all. No Car jewelry or watches etc. to sell
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Edward,
That debt sounds so old it is likely to be “statute barred”. If you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and they agree, they can give you a template letter to send to the debt collector. I would add a sentence into that standard letter saying you are 82, have had a stroke, and have no income apart from benefits.
If this doesn’t solve the problem, you can ask them to “write off” the debt because of your age and health problems – https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/.
And failing that, National Debtlone can set up a Debt Relief order for you – including any other debts you have in it as well.
So there are lots of ways forward, and you scraping to pay this debt is not one of them. National Debtline are great to talk to.
Daego says
Hi, any advice would be much appreciated.
I defaulted on a vanquis credit card in January 2016. I made payments of £1 to them until June 2016. They then sold the debt to Lowell in July 2016. I have never acknowledged the debt with Lowell. However, Vanquis never registered a default against me. But Lowell have done. Lowell registered a default in February 2017. Are they allowed to do this? As this was 7 months after the bought the debt and also 13 months after the account defaulted? Should the debt be statute barred as of January 2022?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Vanquis should have added a default to your credit record in Juky 2016, 6 months after the token payments started. Certainly it should have been defaulted long before they sold it to Lowell.
You can ask Vanquis to add a default date, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/. Then Cabot has to use the same default date.
Should the debt be statute barred as of January 2022?
A default date has NOTHING to do with whether a debt is statute barred.
You carried on making payments until Jun 2016. So July 2022 would be the earliest possible time this debt could be statute barred. BUT were you ever sent a Default Notice by Vanquis? You may not know. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/ for more about why a Default notice (which is not the same as a default being added to your credit record0 matters for statute barring.
Daego says
Hi, thank you for your reply.
Vanquis have said they can not add a default as one has already been added by Lowell. Should they have legally added it in the first place in July 2016? What can I do about this?
Also when I was paying vanquis £1pm, was this not a breach of the terms and conditions I signed stating I would pay at least the minimum payment and would it therefore not be classed as defaulting?
Also I am unsure as to whether I was sent a default notice by vanquis.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them they can add a backdated default and then Lowell will have to use that. Say this goes to the Ombudsman if they don’t agree.
Amanda says
Hi, I had a CC with Nationwide which defaulted in Jan 2015and is now off of my credit report. I got my mortgage in June. Today I have come to a letter from Cabot to say that they are collecting on behalf of Nationwide and to pay it. Its £4000 and I just don’t have that money.
I do not know if I ever made a payment and this letter is out of the blue. What do I do? Can they put another Default on my credit file or even get a CCJ?
If I pay monthly – how will this show on my credit file?
I’m so worried as I don’t want my credit affected as I have a mortgage now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was the last time you think you made a payment to this debt?
Amanda says
I dont think I made one since 2015 but Nationwide said I made 1 payment in 2018! Not sure I would have made 1 random payment.
Cabot said they can’t issue another default or even a CCJ but reading above comments they can. I’m so confused.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A debt that has dropped off your credit record can never reappear with another default.
WHat exactly did Cabot say about not being able to get a CCJ?
Amanda says
I asked if they could put another default and she said no. I said what about a CCJ and she said no. So I asked what about an arrangement to pay and she said no. So I said you cannot do anything for this or my credit report and she said no. I think the actual debt started about 2012 but defaulted in Jan 2015.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
She is correct that a default can’t be added. And nor can an arrangement o pay .
But I am not sure why she says a CCJ isn’t possible.
You could ask Nationwide to send you a statement of the account from 2015 until when they sold it. That should show the mystery 2018 payment. Then when you know when it is, you can get your bank statements to prove you never made that. In that case the loan may well be statute barred and Cabot could not go to court for a CCJ.
Amanda says
should I let Cabot do their investigations or go to Nationwide now? I just don’t see why I would of made 1 random payment in 2018. I had 3 things with Nationwide and don’t trust that this payment was for that – it will be my word against theirs.
I thought this was the case and I specifically asked this a few times and the lady at Cabot said no they can’t do anything! I thought the could still go for a CCJ.
The debt is £4k, I’ve read that they would of paid about £400 for it. Is it worth asking them for a full and final settlement figure of £500 to £1000 ir would they likely laugh at me for this? I cannot get a CCJ as it would even affect my job.
Appreciate the advice 🙏
Sara (Debt Camel) says
should I let Cabot do their investigations
what investigations? they own the debt and they want you to set up a payment arrangement.
If you had other products with Nationwide at that time, ask them for statements of account for the period for all of them. Until you know what these say, there isn’t much point in speculating.
you can offer a settlement if you want, but can you afford that amount?
Amanda says
Cabot said they would go back to Nationwide to query the payment in 2018 but I disputed it. That’s how it’s been left.
I will speak to Nationwide myself and get statements for all accounts. I’ve had a lot of disputes with them and have gone to Ombudsman about my overdraft which you advised previously.
I cant afford to pay the full £4000 but depending on the amount the will accept I may be able to pay. I dont want this hanging over me and I cannot get a CCJ.
Michael says
Re dialogue with Amanda who is worried about the impact of this resurrected debt on her mortgage taken out in june ( 2021?).
Am i right to say that this interaction with Cabot can have no effect at all as the mortgage was granted, and there was no non-disclosure of material fact as Amanda acted in good faith towards her mortgage lender?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no it shouldnt affect her current mortgage but any impact of credit record or starting ot make monthly payments will make it much harder to remortgage with a different lender at the end of a fix.
A says
Sara, do you have an email address?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t give debt help by email.
Bev says
Hi – Not sure if this is the correct place to write or get advice . I have just applied for my first mortgage and a £667 debt has shown with Virgin on Equifax. I have no clue what this debt is for . It says it was taken out in 2012 and defaulted 2018. I have rung Virgin and they have no reference or knowledge of the debt . I have a Virgin account already which they have assured me is up to date and not related to any debt. I have no idea who to ring or contact as Virgin say they cant find anything ? My mortgage is dependant on it being cleared and Im at the stage where for the sake of not losing my mortgage I would just pay it but Virgin wont take the money as they say I dont owe anything ?? Who do I contact next please . I have no knowledge of the it being taken out and dont know where to turn ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is a pity you did not check your credit reports before applying for a mortgage as mistakes can take a while to sort out. Can you get Virgin to put in writing that you are a current customer of theirs and do not owe them any money?
At the same time you need to dispute the debt with Equifax, say you have no knowledge of it and Virgin say you do not owe them any money. See https://help.equifax.co.uk/EquifaxOnlineHelp/s/
Elaine says
Hi Sara,
I got a job that included a welcome bonus and a relocation package. I have had to move due to unforeseeable circumstances and will not bee able to commute there anymore. Spoke to HR about this and they advised that if I can’t pay them back both these amounts as I have not stayed for the stipulated amount of years in the contract, they would hand over what I owe to them to debt collectors. Will this affect my credit score as I will not have defaulted on payment but the company just wants collectors to facilitate the whole thing
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no I don’t think this will affect your credit record UNLESS the debt collector takes you to court to get a CCJ. A CCJ wouyld show on your credit record even though the debt itself doesn’t.
What is the rest of your financial situation like? You should not offer to pay more to this debt than you can really afford, taking account of bills and other prices going up.
Is this your only problem debt?
Ali says
Hi Sara , I have personal loan defaulted and paying token payment £1 since October 2021, now I thinking go to DRO , can I do that
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can switch from making token payments to a DRO if you qualify for a DRO. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/dro/ for an overview of this and phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 to discuss your options.
Token payments are not a good long term option, so unless your situation will improve in the next year or so, it is a good idea to look at different options that will clear your debts.
Ali says
Thanks Sara
Karen says
Hi Sara I had a loan with cash4u. It was sold to a debt collector. I arranged with debt collector to pay £20 per month and have done for nearly a year. On my credit report every month cash4u reports missed payments I don’t understand this if I’m paying. Obviously this is having a huge impact on my credit score. Can you help me to understand?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did Cash4u sell the debt or is the debt collector collecting on behalf of Cash4u? The letters from the debt collector should make this clear.
Was this the first loan you had from them? Was it large?
Karen says
Hello Sara cash4u said ‘Your account has now been passed on to an External Collections Agency, you will need to contact them to discuss repayments.’
It was several loans to about £1000 I tried to do an affordability claim cash4u made an offer of a reduced settlement but I took it to FOS who did not uphold claim. But all through this I continued to pay the collection agency.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then it hasn’t been sold.
The payment arrangement will harm your credit record. How much is staill to be repaid? If it is a lot, then there is a case for asking for a deafult to be added back a year ago, it’s worse for your credit score now but the debt will drop off after 6 years. Without a default it will stay for 6 years after it is settled.
What is the rest of your financial situation like? With bills and prices going up, is the £20 a month still affordable?
Karen says
So I owe about £450. £20 is affordable. Should I just pay if off if I can? Would that have a positive impact on my report?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Settling the debt will not improve your credit score now.
do you have any debts you are being charged interest on? or important bills?
If you do, I suggest you use the money to reduce them. You aren’t being charge interest on this debt, so just pay the £20.
Karen says
Thank you so much. So just to clarify cash4u reporting missed payment every month to the credit agencies is normal even though I’m paying the debt collection agency?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes. Well they could report a payment arrangement but that isnt a lot better.
Gabrielle says
Hi Sara.
I have been chased by Cabot since Oct 21. Out of the blue. Harassed with texts, calls and letters.
I defaulted on a Lloyds credit card in 2007. £4198. I think I took the card out in 2000/2001. Reasons for default, just graduated in 2001 with student loan debts had freelance work but had a baby in Sept 2001, bought a house with husband in 2003 as luckily parents gave us £30k deposit (self-certified) another baby in 2004, and only got my 1st full time job in later in 2004 but my disposable income mostly went on paying the nursery ☹️ And mortgage, new home costs/bills meant we hd no money for this.
I got a CCJ in the end but nothing ever happened/no charge, no contact from DCA’s and that dropped off my file 8/9 months ago.
Oh We entered an IVA in 2008-2010 so my last payment to them was 2010.
What should I do? Ask for a CCA? Ignore? Is the debt SB?
I am so confused but am trying to sort out my finances (it’s going well!) then this crops up! Any advice truly appreciated!
Thanks!
Gabrielle
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was the CCJ listed in your IVA?
Gabrielle says
Sorry my mistake, it was Debt management program with Churchwood Financial (and the CCJ came after we stopped that) thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so it wasn’t cleared in the DMP I assume.
Once there is a CCj there is no point in asking for the CCA agreement – the creditor doesn’t have to produce it.
A CCJ never becomes statute barred but it does become harder to enforce after 6 years. I suggest you phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 next week about this.
Gabrielle says
I will, thank you!
Wondering if I should just ask for a settlement figure and see what they say?
Also, from 2002-2016 my total charges for my current account with Lloyds are over £5500. The bank let me take out an overdraft for £2400 on an income of £22k initially in 2004. I had 2 children while freelance so only got SMP while off. Which didn’t help with the spiralling lending in those times. Wondering if that’s worth any chase-up with Lloyds for unaffordable lending? In 2017 they offered me a loan to pay the £2400 off and it’s now all repaid. Your thoughts?
Thanks again!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk to National Debtline first so you know where you stand before you talk to Cabot.
Did the bank ever increase your overdraft?
Gabrielle says
It looks like I had £400 before starting a full time job, then it went to £2400 in 2007. My salary had increased to 28k then but I was never able to clear it!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this is worth a complaint but as it is such a long while ago it may not be easy. You should expect the bank to reject it and send it to the Ombudsman. Explain that you had no idea that a bank should have made sure an overdraft was affordable until recently and you have complained as soon as you found out. Point out that an overdraft that was larger then you monthly pay was impossible for you to clear.
Nat says
Hi there, I’ve just had a quick quid loan transferred over from Lantern to BPO and I think I’m in the financial position to settle (finally…) however a weird thing has happened where a new address where I have never lived (completely different county, don’t recognise it at all) was registered by them and I’m worried they are going to try and serve me a CCJ there. I’ve raised a dispute by Experian say that BPO have confirmed it’s correct, I don’t know how as I’ve never lived there! I’m a bit concerned by this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Complain to BPO not to experian.
Nic says
Hi Sara, I borrowed 3 loans from provident dating back to 2007. I raised a complaint for irresponsible lending and it had been upheld.m via the scheme. They accepted liability for all 3 and they therefore should never have been sold to me. They sold one of these debts to Lowell on 2015 and iv been paying £15 each month since 2018. Iv still got an outstanding balance of £1024 and iv paid them in excess of £510. I spoke with Lowell on 04.02.22 and they confirmed that if my claim was upheld I would receive a refund of fees which I have paid. I have since received my FRL from provident confirming the outcome and this was forwarded to Lowell. They have told me I still owe them the debt and I’m liable to keep on paying it and they won’t refund the fees even though I was told different in feb 22. Therefore I am still paying for a loan which I should never have been given to me. Furthermore, I didn’t sign any documents when taking out these loans as they were given as home credit. This means I didn’t give any consent for them to sell my loan to anyone as I was never given and terms and conditions. Can you advise me what I need to do I order to get Lowell to refund the fees and write off the remainder of the debt? Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am trying to find out what is happening to these Lowell debts.
Jack says
Hi Sara, I to had few loans sold to Moorcroft for provident, they agreed them ones also were unaffordable & upheld. Been a battle communicating with both to get answers. Today I got this from provident which you can share.
Thank you for contacting us about the Provident Scheme of Arrangement.
We are currently in the process of informing Debt Purchasers to write off balances for agreements where claims have been upheld.
Regards,
Lori Ullah
Scheme of Arrangement
sally codd says
I too am in the same situation as had irresponsible lending upheld and I have a ccj on it that I have been paying since sep 2019, should I go straight to FOC?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is with Lowell?
Jack says
This is what provident told me today & said look at website.
Loans sold to Debt Purchasers will have their balances reduced
Our Debt Purchasers have agreed to reduce loan balances for customers with an upheld claim against the Scheme of Arrangement, in the same way Provident has. Where appropriate, the Debt Purchasers including Lowell, Cabot, PRA, Vanquis Bank, Arvato, Grove and Moorcroft will also refund any over payments. We will advise our Debt Purchasers regarding the outcome of your claim during May 2022, so please allow them some time to amend the balance of your account.
Julia says
Hello,
I have been contacted by a solicitors claiming I owe Quid Quid £1000. I have had no contact with QQ since 2015. They contacted me by text which stated I needed to agree that I am responsible for contents to read said text. I had no idea who it was and was worried so opened. My question is – as had no contact for over 6 years am I liable or, does this fall outside of statue of limitations? QQ made totally no response prior to 2015 to any emails re refunds etc and now over 6 years later being asked to pay back this…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though this may be statute barred – I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about his – they have a templae letter you can use to send the solicitors if it is statute barred.
Lucy says
Hi I had a loan with my jar that got sold to aci in January, I paid it with aci the next day and the account with them shows as paid. When I log into my jar though the £181 loan still shows as not paid and its still on my credit file, I’ve emailed my jar about 2 months ago and they told me to ask aci to update the details. I messaged aci and their response was ‘ don’t worry about it ‘ now my jar and aci won’t respond to messages about it, but is 5 months a long time for it still be on my credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send ACI a complaint in writing – email is fine.