If you have an old debt, you may wonder if you still have to pay it? Can your creditors really take you to court after this long?
English law says a creditor only has a limited amount of time – typically six years – to take you to court. The term for a debt that is so old that it can’t be enforced in court is “statute barred”.
(You may have heard the phrase being time-barred, that means the same thing. Sometimes it is called status barred because the term statute-barred has been misheard.)
This article answers the most common questions people have about statute-barred debt, including when the six-year period begins.
If you are making payments the debt will never become statute barred no matter how old it gets. For you this article isn’t relevant, instead read Can I stop paying this old debt?
Contents
New rules for some debts – January 2019
In January 2019 there was a decision in the Court of Appeal (Doyle v PRA) that has changed the point at which the six-year period starts for some debts including credit cards and loans.
I have updated this article to reflect this.
This may lead to a lot of confusion for a while, with articles and comments on the internet describing the old position. If you are not sure what to believe or whether this affects you, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
What is “statute barred” – an overview
Creditors have to take legal action about debts within certain times which are set out in the Limitations Act 1980. For most sorts of debts and bills in England and Wales this time is six years.
If the creditor doesn’t start court action within this time, the debt is not enforceable because it is “statute-barred”. When a debt is statute-barred it still exists legally, but because you cannot be taken to court for it, you do not have to make any payments to it.
This six-year period begins when the creditor has a cause of action – this is the point at which the creditor could go to court for the debt.
If you are making the normal monthly payments to a debt, you can’t be taken to court for it. It is only when you have missed payments and the creditor can go to court that the 6-year period starts.
Think of a timer that runs for 6 years – which can be reset
A good way to think of statute barring is that there is a 6 year timer. This is set running when the creditor has a cause of action. The sand takes 6 years to drain slowly through… at the end, your debt is statute barred.
But if you make a payment to the debt or acknowledge it in writing during the six years, the clock is reset back to start at 6 years again. So if you are making monthly payments, even tiny ones, a debt will never become statute barred as the clock resets back to 6 years every month.
What is a cause of action?
I try to avoid using legal jargon, but this point is so important that I have to talk about it.
Someone can’t sue you for a debt unless they have a good reason to – this is their cause of action. What that good reason is depends on the type of debt, how it is regulated and, sometimes, what the contract for the debt says.
This has always be complicated for some debts such as overdrafts which don’t have regular payments. You may have stopped using your overdraft 8 years ago, but your bank may not have realised this for a long while – so when would they have the right to sue you?
The January 2019 court judgment decided that a creditor’s cause of action does not start for some credit debts (including some loans and credit cards) until the creditor has sent you a Default Notice. The problem here is that you may not remember when you got that or if one was ever sent. Also the creditor can just delay sending you this so your debt may never become statute barred.
How can I tell if my debt is statute-barred?
Unsecured debts, including most loans, credit cards, catalogues and overdrafts will normally be statute-barred in England and Wales if you can say YES to all the following four points:
- it had been more than six years since you last made a payment; and
- the creditor has a cause of action more than six years ago; and
- you haven’t acknowledged the debt in writing during this time; and
- the creditor hasn’t already gone to court for a CCJ.
With a joint loan, it matters if either of you makes a payment. If you have split-up, you may think a debt is statute-barred but it isn’t because your ex has made a payment to it in the last 6 years.
Acknowledging the debt has to be in writing. If you haven’t done this, it doesn’t matter if the creditor has written to you, or you have discussed the debt on the phone – this won’t stop the debt being statute barred. If you have reclaimed PPI, this is likely to have acknowledged the debt.
The cause of action is the most difficult point to determine here. See this National Debtline factsheet which has a section on When Does the Limitation Period Start Running?
If you can say Yes to points (1), (3) and (4) but are unsure about point (2) on the cause of action, I suggest you call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and talk through your situation with them.
Sometimes the exact date a debt becomes statute barred matters:
- if you write saying that a debt is statute-barred and you are wrong because the debt isn’t, then your letter is likely to have “reset the clock” by acknowledging the debt;
- if you have received a court form about a debt, you need to know whether you can defend the case on the grounds the debt is statute barred.
Questions about different sorts of debt
Statute barring for secured debt – mortgage shortfalls
If your debt is still secured – you are still living in the house there is a mortgage or a secured loan on – then statute barring isn’t relevant. What matters is if you get too far into arrears the lender can go to court to repossess your house.
But what about when the house has been sold so the security no longer exists but you still owe money on the debts?
For a debt resulting from a mortgage shortfall, the time allowed in the Limitations Act is twelve years. But many lenders follow the old Council for Mortgage Lenders code, now part of the MCOB Rules (Mortgage Conduct of Business), that says:
anyone whose property was taken into possession and sold more than six years ago, and who has not been contacted by their lender for recovery of the outstanding debt, will not now be asked to pay the shortfall.
See National Debtline’s Factsheet on Mortgage Shortfalls for more details, such as what does “contact” mean? And phone National Debtline if you are contacted about a mortgage shortfall debt which is between 6 and 12 years old.
Do tax debts or benefit overpayments become statute barred?
Tax debts such as Income tax and VAT do not become statute barred. If you are wondering if your debt is a “tax debt”, HMRC has a list of “not tax debts”, which do become statute barred.
The situation regarding benefit overpayments is more complicated – although they can become statute-barred, there are other ways the debt could still be recovered. You should take advice about these sorts of debts – contact National Debtline or your local Citizens Advice are very good with benefit issues.
What about old council tax arrears?
A council should not go to court and ask for a liability order for council tax arrears more than six years after the council tax became due. But if the council already has a Liability Order, this will never become time-barred.
If you get a letter out of the blue about a Liability Order for council tax arrears from ten years ago, this may feel very unreasonable. One of the main reasons time limits exist is that people don’t keep paperwork forever, so you may have no way of proving that you paid the debt at the time. This is one of the rare occasions when it may be worth asking the creditor to Write-off the Debt. It may also be worth getting a local councillor involved for council tax arrears.
What about utilities?
Gas, electricity and water bills become statute barred 6 years after the date on the bill. There are also rules regulating when a supplier can “back bill” – send a new bill for charges more than 12 months old. If you think you have a problem with back billing, go to your local Citizens Advice and ask for their help.
Getting letters and court forms about a debt you think is statute barred
Can I ignore a letter about a statute barred debt?
Are you 100% sure that it is statute barred? If you aren’t certain talk to National Debtline.
If you are do not recognise the debt you should probably write a “Prove It” letter to your creditor. This is worded so that it doesn’t acknowledge the debt.
If you do recognise the debt but you are certain it is statute-barred, you could ignore a letter. But it might be less stressful to reply pointing out that it is statute-barred rather than get more letters and possibly court forms. National Debtline has a template letter you can use here.
Can I ignore a Letter Before Action/Claim about a statute barred debt?
This is a bad idea. It is much easier to challenge a creditor by saying the debt is statute barred using the Reply Form than it is to defend a court case.
See How to reply to a Letter before Action which looks at what you should do when you think the debt is statute barred.
I have been sent a Claim Form for a statute barred debt – what should I do?
Do NOT ignore the Claim Form. If you do, a judgment will be made against you in default because you haven’t replied, even if your debt is statute barred.
So if the creditor takes you to court, you must defend the claim on the grounds that it is statute-barred. And also look at whether you have any other defences eg can the creditor produce the CCA agreement.
If you are unsure what to write on the defence form, phone National Debtline and talk to them.
Other FAQs about statute barred debt
I live in Scotland
This article isn’t relevant if you live in Scotland where the laws and time limits are very different. I suggest you phone National Debtline who have Scottish experts.
My debt is statute barred, do I still owe the money?
Yes. Your debt still exists, it hasn’t been written off, it can still get sold on and you may still receive letters about it.
The Financial Conduct Authority’s rules about statute-barred consumer credit debt (loans, credit cards etc) are here. They say that if you state you will not pay a statute barred debt, the creditor cannot continue to ask you to pay it.
If you want to get rid of the debt completely and you are absolutely sure a debt is statute-barred, you could consider making a very low Full and Final Settlement offer, perhaps under 10% – see Full & Final Settlements for more details. Your letter should point out that the debt is statute barred and hence unenforceable.
A debt has dropped off my credit record – is it statute barred?
Possibly not! Obviously your debt is old but it may not be statute barred.
The six-year period for the Statute of Limitations is NOT the same as the six-year period that a debt stays on your credit file after a default. If a debt isn’t showing on your credit file it may be statute barred but it may not be.
A debt will stop showing on your credit record six years after any default was recorded. But if you have made some payments to it in the last 6 years, perhaps just a token £1 a month, then it isn’t going to be statute barred.
My debt has been sold, does this effect becoming statute barred?
No, it doesn’t matter if your debt is sold. The six-year period still runs from the date of your last payment or written acknowledgement of the debt.
The sale doesn’t “reset the clock”. If it was already statute-barred at the time it was sold, it remains statute barred.
When does a CCJ become statute barred?
It never does. But if the creditor hasn’t taken any enforcement action in six years, they will need to apply to the court for permission if they want to enforce the debt by using bailiffs. This is unusual but if it happens to you, contact National Debtline.
My debt is statute-barred – if I reclaim PPI will this re-open the debt?
Once a debt is statute barred this is permanent, it can never become “unbarred” so applying for a PPI reclaim won’t change this. So it’s safe to reclaim PPI on a statute barred debt.
But if the reclaim is successful, the lender will sometimes not send you the money but set it off against the remaining debt – even though it is statute barred the debt still exists. In this situation don’t use a claims company, or you could end up owing them money.
Any other questions?
I can’t give you advice on whether your debt is likely to be statute barred, so if you are concerned about a specific debt, then phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. Or you could use their good web chat.
But if you have a general question about statute barred debt, ask it in the comments below.
Updated 2019 for the new court judgment
why pay a debt that isn’t on your credit record
What to do if you receive a court form
Is this default date for a debt wrong?
Andy Lloyd-Jackson says
Hi Sara
Just a quick question about a debt dispute with an individual.
In April 2011 an individual was going to take me to court (High Court London) about a personal loan debt.
It was a loan between 2 individuals.
The person made a claim against me saying I still owed money, and it was registered at the high court.
However the individual never proceeded with the court case.
I wrote to the court disputing the claim made and was going to attend the hearing.
The claim was on my credit report for 6 years but has now been deleted.
We are now 7+ years later. Can that individual still make a claim against me in the future at anytime ?
Your advice would be helpful.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know what happened to the court case? Was it thrown out? Or just “stayed”?
Elizabeth says
Hi Sarah
Query in connection to a Water debt not mine so maybe gaps in my information, and unable to find a definitive answer online.
Background: Water Account defaulted 2012
No payment or acknowledgement since that time (apparently)
Each year since 2012 new annual unpaid bill amount added to existing default. ie April 2012 £500 owed, April 2013 £800 owed, April 2014 £1110 owed etc
I have advised that water debt is different in this case, as rolling account so amount owed will not drop off credit report after 6 years(?) Due to not being a static amount(?).
Any payment made now will go to the oldest debt account first to clear that. ie outstanding debt outstanding for 2012(?)
However, am i correct in advising that :
. any water debt owed prior to April 2012, not paid or acknowledged is now stat barred? or Do the water authority have additional legal rights to go back further than 6 years.
. the Water authority will need to reflect any adjustments older than 6 years via the outstanding amount shown on the credit report?
I think i’ve covered it but…..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is there actually a default date on the water debt on your credit record, if so what is it? Or is it just marked as 6 months in arrears?
Elizabeth says
Hi Sarah
i understand that there is actually a default date on the credit report. The default date is sometime in 2012 i understand. I will have to ask them the exact date if necessary as i do not have access to that information myself.
6’s were mentioned and i have no idea what the consequences of the 6’s would be:-(
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, check your own credit reports! See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this for free.
6s mean that you are at least 6 months in arrears and that no default date has been added.
Elizabeth says
Hi Sarah
For clarity
I am raising this query with you for someone else, which is why i do not have access to all the information. I did state this at the beginning of my first post.
Thanks for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you did, sorry! In that case you need to ask them to check their credit record. My guess is that there is no default on the credit record and the account is showing 6m in arrears. It will therefore not drop off until it is closed because there is no default.
Assuming that is correct and turning to the question of whether the debts are statute barred…
Water debts become statute barred 6 years after the date of the bill. If this is over 6 years ago the Water company could no longer take the person to court for a CCJ for the oldest year, but they could for the rest of the more recent years.
Just because a debt is statute barred doesn’t mean it no longer exists. It is still correct for this oldest year amount to be showing in the total balance on person’s credit record. And the Water Company can take payments made to clear that oldest debt.
So… why hasn’t the person paid their water bills for so many years? Have they looked into their options for trying to sort these out, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/cant-pay-water-bill/ .
Elizabeth says
Hi Sarah
Thank you for your response.
I think the default information comes from a letter from the water company, not a credit report. Not sure will get them to check credit file.
Makes sense to me and i will be forwarding the information.
Very pleased you put me right about the stat barred issue. Situation rectifiable. Would have hated to put them on the wrong track.
Kelvin says
Hi there
My loan was sold to Cabot financial in 2009 the took out a ccj on me in 2014 some 5 years and 10 months later
They state that a payment that failed on the 16/12/2008 is my last payment
As this fail does this count as a payment or do I go back to the last successful payment
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you hoping to be able to reopen the CCJ and fight the court case on the basis that the debt is statute barred? When did you find out there is a CCJ?
Kelvin says
Hi there
Yes I have stated to the company that the debt was statues barred when they raised the ccj and want to fight for them to remove the ccj from my record.
I found it July this year when I ran a credit check. The last credit report I ran previous to this was 2010
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to talk to National Debtline https://www.nationaldebtline.org/ about this CCJ urgently. You are supposed to apply for a CCJ to be set aside “promptly” when you find you have a CCJ you never received any paperwork for. This is more than 4 months later…
After a set aside the court case normally restarts so you can defend it. But you don’t want to do this unless you are pretty sure you are going to win a defence on the grounds of it being statute barred – National Debtline can talk about too. Because if you lose the case you will now have a CCJ in early 2019 on your record until 2025, whereas this old one was going to disappear in 2020.
Dale says
Hello,
I had an account with British Gas in 2010.
The last payment I made to them was on the 09/01/2012, I haven’t made a payment or admitted the debt since then. I have spoken to them over the phone but always denied I owed the money. Will this now be statued barred?
British Gas are reporting a default on my credit file from sept 2014, 2 years after I moved out the property and made last payment, when should the 1st default be recorded and how do I get them to put the default at the correct date? Over 6 years has passed so technically it shouldn’t even be on my credit file?
Thanks you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did you leave the property? The last bill will presumably have been some time after that – did you tell them when you moved out? A gas bill becomes statute barred 6 years after the date of the bill.
Dale says
Hi sara
The next bill was June 2012, I moved out the property in June 2013 and I informed them I moved out
Thanks
D Conway says
Hi, I have a Mortgage shortfall which officially went into default in June 2014! Here’s the complicated bit! i made my last cash payment back in Feb 2012, when i handed back the keys, it took the mortgage company until June 2014 to sell the property and reduce the overall balance, this then registered on my credit report as a Payment. It’s from this date that they registered the account as defaulted! (Is this fair, considering i made my last cash payment over 2 years previously)! If you agree this is unfair and the default date should be Feb 2012 is it advisable to contest the default date? bear in mind i’ve had not acknowledged the debt in any form in over 6 years!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this specific lender and whether they follow the Council for Mortgage Lenders code mentioned in the article above.
It is a great pity you did not go bankrupt in 2012. If you had, this would all be behind you and your credit record would now be clear.
Lauren says
Hi, I received a letter from a debt collection agency named QDR solicitors. The letter stated that they had been advised that I was residing at my current address. I was to contact them to confirm these were my contact details and if I did not contact them they would assume that they had the correct information. The letter did not state what it was regarding and only gave a reference number. I contacted them today by phone, after passing security checks the lady then said to me it was regarding a debt which was outstanding for a TalkTalk Contract Phone for 24 Months. The debt has never appeared on my credit file and I have checked with both Credit Expert and Noddle. The last known payment on the account was the 23rd February 2013. The debt appears to be over six years and was totally unaware about this outstanding balance. When I spoke to them on the phone, I told them I was unaware about this outstanding debt. I have had no letters about the outstanding balance and this is the first correspondence I have had about it. Please could you advise what my next action is to take?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“The last known payment on the account was the 23rd February 2013. The debt appears to be over six years and was totally unaware about this outstanding balance.” It doesn’t matter how old the debt is, what matters is when you last made a payment to it. Can I suggest you talk to national Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your situation and this alleged TalkTalk debt.
Pearlygirly says
Sara, Is there going to be an appeal by Doyle? This is a ridiculous judgement and trampled all over the doctrine of Laches. Clearly Lord Etheridge is favourably disposed to creditors. His arguments make no sense especially the public policy one saying debtors will enjoy an extended period of credit if the default is delayed!!! Yes and what about the spiralling interest and charges? If this stands it will cause huge uncertainty. Will non defaulted debts be due debts now? Etcetc
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This was an Appeal Court decision… I agree it is very unsatisfactory.
Ernie says
If I send a SAR to a payday lender, will this restart the statute barred clock ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Probably. But if the debt is already statute barred, it will remain statute barred. And in practice it’s very risky hoping a loan will become statute barred – it’s more likely you will hear from a debt collector in the last few months.
The longer you delay asking for a refund, the harder it can be as more of your loans are over 6 years old.
Which lender are you thinking of? How old is the loan you have defaulted on? And how many loans did you have from that lender before that?
Claire says
Hi there I have received a letter from Cabot stating that they have passed my credit card debt to Global Debt recovery, I last received a letter from Cabot about this account in March 2014 when i Sent a prove it letter, with out ackowledging the debt, They replied saying they didnt have the signed agreement but would provide it within 40days which they never did, I never heard from them again until Dec 2018. #
The last payment on this credit card account was April 2009 and an old credit report shows it went in to default 30th November 2009 and no longer shows on my credit report. It it ok to send a statute barred letter and if so do i send it to Cabot or to Global debt recovery
Thank you, your advice would be greatly appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I wouldn’t bother with writing a statute barred letter. Write to GDR and say that Cabot have been unable to produce the CCA agreement for the debt in 2014 and unless GDR can produce it you will not be making any payments to it.
If they are so foolish as to start court action (which is VERY unlikely) then you should include all the possible defences including statute barring. But at the moment you know the debt is unenforceable because of the lack of a CCA so just stick to that argument.
Claire says
Thank you very much for your help
Daniel says
Hi Sarah great site! Please could you help? I have an old debt (second mortgage on a reposesed house) my ex went bankrupted and I was left with the debts I have not contacted them in nearly 6 years and have only ever received a statement from them. Not and letter asking for payment. But each month it shows a 6 on my credit file as does another debt that again iv had no contact from. Does the 6 mean that they won’t go barred? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Something that does not have a default date on your credit record is never going to drop off.
This doesn’t mean that it will never become statute barred – but you need to be VERY sure a debt is statute barred before you contact the creditor and ask them to add a default date…
I suggest you talk to National Debtline about both debts – and any other ones you have. It is a pity you did not go bankrupt years ago when your ex did.
Richard Odonnell says
Hi I have not had any contact with a debt for 5 years . Recently I received a letter from the bank who I owe the debt to saying they under payed me interest . So they made a small payment to one of the accounts . I recently recieved a letter from lowells telling me that I had made a payment to them and I have a case number . Will this reset the six year timer ? As I have had no actual contact with them or acknowledge it? Thanks Rich.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it shouldn’t… but statute barring has become more difficult recently (the above article has been updated to reflect this) so if you are hoping to get rid of the debt that way, this may not work.
If you get a Letter Before Claim/Action from Lowell or their solicitors at a point you think the debt is statute barred, do not ignore this. It is better to respond and challenge the debt then as being statute barred (and ask for the CCA agreement of course) not wait and have to fight a court case.
Kristian says
Hi,
I have an old debt that is due to drop off my credit file in January 2020 which will be 6 years since l defaulted.
I am currently paying off another debt that is also due to fall off January next year so can not afford to pay anything off the other debt.
I have been contacted by Wescott regarding the debt I’m not paying asking that l contact them to discuss a settlement figure.
Is it worth me contacting them even though I don’t have any spare money to make a payment for the amount which is £1200 but l could possibly afford a small settlement of a few hundred but I’m not sure if this is likely to be accepted.
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well this debt isn’t likely to get to being statute barred – if you ignore Westcot they are likely to go to court.
These two debts – what sort of debts were they (loans, credit cards overdrafts), who was the original creditor and when was the original account opened?
Kristian says
Hi Sara,
The one Wescot contacted me about is an overdraft and the other that l am repaying is a credit card, both with halifax.
The original accounts were opened over s decade ago that they have contacted me about, ive not made a payment on it for approx 7yrs I think.
Do you think it’s best that l contact Westcot? The only way I could make a payment would be on a credit card which has a high interest rate because my other money is going to clear the credit card.
Regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about when the overdraft would be likely to be statute barred.
If it isn’t, so you need to make a payment arrangement, you could reduce what you are paying to the old credit card debt and pay half to the overdraft?
The Halifax card – you could ask the debt collector produce the CCA agreement for this debt. If they can’t, then the debt is unenforceable. That would give you more money to pay to the overdraft. Again National Debtline can help you ask for a CCA agreement – they have a template letter – and to look at your options here. It isn’t straightforward and it also depends on the rest of your finances.
Kristian says
Ok thank you.
I’ll call the debt line first.
Would Wescot request the whole payment or should l go to them with an offer for say half?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How could you afford to pay half? It doesn’t matter what Wescot “request” what matters is what you can afford. The interest is frozen on this old debt so don’t borrow money, especially at a high interest rate, to repay it.
Kristian says
Ok thank you
Just wanted to try and take the chance to make a settlement offer if it was possible but I’ll see what they say first and the debt line
Thanks so much, you do an amazing job at helping so many people
Cheryl Rowlands says
Hi. I have an old debt with Capital One but have never acknowledged the debt. I have now received court papers from Northampton and have filed an Acknowledgement of Service and stated that I intend to defend the action. I am 99% sure it is statute barred, but as I do not have any of the original papers with regard to the Credit Card agreement, I am not 100% sure and wouldn’t wish to restart the clock running by stating so.
I want to move the hearing from Northampton to my home town of Bristol, as I think it is unreasonable that I should be expected to attend court in Northampton.
I would be grateful for any help or suggestions on how to proceed. Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, you can get the hearing moved to your local court. This is normal – no-one is expected to trog to Northampton.
Good places to get help with your defence are National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues.
A statute barred defence has got a lot more difficult since the start of the year, as the article above explains. You also need to look at other possible defences eg have you asked for a copy of the CCA agreement? Legal Beagles will explain exactly what you have to do.
CAM says
Hi there. Thank you so much for such a swift response. I shall contact the NDH and check out the Legal Beagles forum for further information. Many thanks for providing the link and phone number.
No, I haven’t written to Lowells asking for a copy of the CCA agreement, because I assumed that once a claim had been entered at court, it was too late. I can do this immediately if there is still time.
SHARON ELLIS says
Hello. May I please ask about tax and child tax credit overpayments for the period ending mid Oct 2009, for which the letter was received from HMRC on Monday 18th March 2019.
This letter is is the first anybody has heard of the debt. HMRC have had correct addresses for both parties. 1 of which is self employed and has always been on the electoral roll and registered with HMRC etc at the correct address each time. He has been at his current address for 4 years.
The debt is split 50/50 between 2 people (couple with 2 kids) who were until Oct 2009 claiming jointly for both tax credits according to HMRC. Approx £500 each.
At that time they split, the father no longer claimed anything, the mother then claimed alone.
Am I correct in saying that the debt is statute barred due to the length of time since the overpayment (well over 6 years)?
Or, which is where my concern/query comes in, is it not 6 years since the overpayment debt was “due to be paid”?
How do you know when a debt re overpayment of benefits was/is due to be paid? Or is the start of the 6 years now, since they have only now notified the claimants of the overpayment?
Surely HMRC would have known at the end of the tax year (5/4/2010 in this case) that the couple had been overpaid so say even after another year, by April 2011? How could it have taken so long to come after them? Is there any legislation about allowed timescales?
Many thanks in advance.
Sharon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the “Other debt types” section in here https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/time-limits-for-recovering-debts/statute-barred-debt.aspx. I suggest you tell the two of them to talk to National Debtline about their situation. If she is still claiming benefits, they may have other ways to recover the debt apart from going to court.
SHARON ELLIS says
Many thanks for the help.
It seems the debt is not statute barred as there is no given start date of the limitation period (i.e. when HMRC decided the old overpayment was a debt).
Luke says
I have received a letter of claim and have 30 days to respond or be issued a county court claim. My issue is I don’t know if it is statue barred or not. Is there anyway of finding this out? I entered the agreement on 31/08/2012 and it was around this sort of time six years ago that the contract ended. I don’t believe I have made any payments since this time, however I am not 100% certain.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt was this? it is now with a debt collector? has it been marked as defaulted on your credit record?
Luke says
This was a debt for energy supply with Eon. Yes it is now with Lowell Solicitors. The strange thing is it’s never appeared on any of my credit reports (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
An energy debt is statute barred 6 years after the date of the final bill. You can ask for a copy of that final bill but unless you left EON after only a few months it may well not be statute barred. i suggest you talk to National Debtline about this and how you should reply on the Reply Form.
John says
Hi, I have a credit union loan that is over 14 years old, I made my last payment around 12years ago, I have not heard anything from them in around 10 years, last week I received a letter saying i have 7 days to pay the bill or it will instigate legal action,would this debt be statue barred ? What would your advice be, thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000about this letter and your options.
Catherine says
I have received a Court claim from lowells with regards to an Argos debt from 2008. I have responded to the claim with a defence of it being time barred. I have never admitted liability of the debt and i really don’t have any spare income. I have defended the claim and responded with a templated letter. I tried to call the debtline for advice prior to me sending the response but i just couldnt get through. I think i have done the right thing in defending. Any advise if they can demonstrate it is not time barred.
Thankyou
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t give advice on a court claim in progress. Talk to National Debtline and also post on the Legal Beagles site, see https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues. One thing to ask about is whether you have asked them to produce the CCA agreement for the debt.
Mark says
Hi Sara,
I have 5 year old default with Halifax which was passed to a DCA, I settled this a couple of years ago and currently waiting for it to drop off in 2020.
I cancelled that Halifax account last month and I’m worried I shot myself in the foot. A friend told me that the Halifax account will remain on my file for years to come and the payments section will be ‘frozen’ and still visible for years. Therefore, although the default will be deleted, it will still be visible within the late payments section and show I’ve had difficulties and/or a default.
Will this be the case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. The whole debt will disappear on 2020, not just the default date.
Keith says
Lowell have recently applied for a CCJ regarding an old Capital One account. I defended the claim stating the said account was statute barred (as it’s been well over 6 years since I acknowledged it) & asked for proof if otherwise.
Got a letter a couple of weeks later from Lowell saying they now would like to go to the small claims track via mediation if I agreed. I’ve now received a letter from the court with the relevant small claims track questionnaire.
It does this is now a defended claim & say I do have the choice of whether to choose this route. However if I don’t, the court will make such order as appears to be appropriate which could include striking out the claim or entering judgement.
I’ve never had this before & I’m unsure what to do. I kinda think by not going for the claim in full, they don’t have any proof that the debt isn’t statute barred & therefore are trying a different way to get money from me. Any advice would be great……thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t give advice on a court case in progress. you could call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 or post on the Legal Beagles board, see https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues. Or both.
Keith says
Thank Sara, will do
CAM says
Lowells have done exactly the same with me, Keith. They have also ignored two requests to provide a copy of the original CCA agreement which I am going to bring up during the mediation. I shall speak to the Debt Advisory Service tomorrow.
Steve says
Hi Sara.
I have an overdraft debt of 2,000 with a bank.
To give you an idea of my circumstances, in relation to the details for the bank in question, my credit file shows this:-
My credit file is showing as – Current Status: “Default/Ended”.
It is also showing as – Account Settled: (Then it shows a specific date in 2013).
It shows the balance of the debt as being: “2,000 credit in use”
It shows the ‘Status’ as being: “Account is ‘default’, credit agreement has ended”.
It also shows a history graph going back to 2013 that clearly shows that the default was recorded on my credit file at approximately the same time as the date next to the above ‘Account Settled’ – the date in 2013.
I am unsure what the above information on my credit file actually means but I do know that am very close to this being 6 years.
Can you possibly determine from the above what it means?
Will this drop off my credit file?
I have not paid anything into that account since well before the ‘Account Settled’ date mentioned above.
The bank actually closed the account down in prior to that date and either in 2012 or 2013. Not sure when it was.
I also haven’t acknowledged the overdraft debt in writing or in any other form since that time.
I am also not aware of any CCJ’s for this overdraft debt. Certainly no CCJ’s showing on my credit file.
I did receive letters from the bank well before that date telling me that I needed to pay the overdraft or face the possibility of court action etc . I didn’t respond to those letters either.
I have since moved house a few times and have not had any mail from the bank to my current address, which I have been at for over two years now.
Steve says
What are your thoughts on this?
Can you explain where I stand with an overdraft debt and the ‘cause of action’ scenario?
Ideally, I would obviously want to see this default being dropped of my credit file but I’m not sure when this should be or if it happens automatically. I am aware that the debt doesn’t go away but i am happy for it to be cleared from my credit file.
I would also ideally want to pursue this overdraft debt as now being ‘statute barred’ but unsure if the overdraft debt falls into that category or if the above circumstances even permit that to be a possibility just yet.
Any guidance and advice on what the above means and what i should do next would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though it should drop off 6 years after the default/settled date.
I am not sure what you want to do now? waiting for your credit record to clear seems the best action. If a creditor is not talking to you about a debt you certainly do not want to start sending them letters about it being statute barred.
Steve says
Thank you for the swift reply Sara.
My credit file doesn’t specifically state what date a default drops off so t is difficult for a layman to determine when this would be.
Therefore I wasn’t sure what was meant by the phrase used in my credit file of ‘Account Settled’ (because it wasn’t paid off and essentially remains an outstanding debt). Can you clarify this meaning?
I was also unsure what was meant by the phrase used in my credit file of ‘Default Ended’ (because it is clearly still in default and hasn’t actually ended per se). Can you clarify this meaning?
I have ‘optimistically’ assumed the best case scenario that these phrases somehow identify a legal start date for the default, which may turn out to be an important factor if I am faced with any further action from the bank, such as a CCJ etc.
I wasn’t even aware of the ‘statute barred’ option until reading about it here.
Having the default drop off my credit file is one thing, but having the possibility of a CCJ looming in the background and then suddenly rearing its head is something that I’d want to be prepared for if it was to happen.
I have only checked one credit reference agency file and the default is obviously showing on that one. There is no CCJ showing but could a CCJ be showing on another file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
exactly what date is shown in 2013?
Steve says
Hi Sara.
The above information comes from my free MSE credit report.
I’d rather not say the exact date – you never know who’s reading!
But it is was in May 2013.
If you are familiar with the format/layout of how the information is presented on MSE, it has the following table:-
Details of Account:
Account:- It then gives the banks name
Type: It says “Current Account”
Account Started: – It gives the date the account was opened
Current Status: It says “Default/Ended
Credit Limit:-
Balance: It Says –“2000 credit in use” (Although the account is closed)
Entry Code: ??
Account Settled: It gives the date in question here as “??/05/2013”
Then there is a drop down menu that open a graph that displays the account history using a slider. I can slide through that history all the way back to the above date in question ??/05/2013 (which is 72 months/6 years). Although this does not give an exact date, it clearly shows May 2013 as the month when the default was first registered onto my credit report.
I am therefore assuming that this date corresponds with the exact date given next to ‘Account Settled’.
Hope that helps.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So it sounds as though it should drop off 6 years after ??/05/2013. the MSE report is a monthly snapshot, so check a few laters and it should have been updated so you can see that debt has gone. if you are ever contacted about the debt, deal with the statute barred issue at that point – there is nothing you can do now and the longer it is is the better.
Steve says
Hi Sara and fellow Debt Camel readers.
How is a 6 year default removed from a credit report file?
Is it automatically set up to be removed once it reaches the 6 year point or is it removed manually?
If it is removed manually – who makes the decision to remove it?
Is it the Credit Reference Agency such as Experian and Equifax etc who remove it or is it the actual creditor?
Does the default drop off silently or is a creditor pulling the strings whilst rubbing their hands and issuing a CCJ?
The answer to this could have serious negative implications for those hoping to keep a low profile and avoid further financial hardships via a CCJ whilst waiting for that 6 year point to arrive.
Seems to me that there are so many people who comment online who manage to get to the wire and so close to seeing their default removed and then potentially also being able to claim that their debt is now also ‘Statute Barred’, then in the very last month or few days of that 6 year period they are suddenly hit with a CCJ !
There is either a flaw in the data protection process or this perhaps indicates some sort of collusion between the CRA’s and the creditors or indicates that the creditors are intentionally working towards making people’s lives even more of a misery by burdening them with additional punishments rather than helping them to manage their ability to get out of debt.
Can you provide any details on the process for removing a default?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It drops off automatically on the CRA systems. There will be thousands of these every day.
But having the debt drop off does NOT mean your debt is statute barred.
Yes a lot of people are connected late in the 6 years by a debt collector.
John Mercer says
I had an account with a credit card company and have paid nothing since March 2013 but the default notice was issued in August 2013, so based on these new rules the debt company chasing is claiming the August 2013 date is correct.
More concerningly though is they claim a substantial payment was made to the account in November 2014 and I 100% have never paid any money to that creditor or the credit card account or any debt company since. This must be an accounting error somewhere but all they have produced is a paper statement showing the payment. How can I ask them for proof that the payment was made by me or is it indeed an erroneuos payment?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You may well have a problem if the default notice was August 2013. Are you sure that was the default notice? or do was it a default date added to your credit account, which is not the same thing. Have they mentioned the new rules?
Get your bank statement for November 2014. If there is nothing there, show them that and ask them to prove the alleged payment “to the alleged debt” came from you.
Steve says
Hi Sara.
Are these ‘new rules’ about ‘Default Notice’ given retrospectively or do they only become valid for accounts that defaulted after the ruling made in January 2019?
Is a letter that uses the phrase ‘formal notice’ deemed as a ‘Default Notice’?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These are not actually new rules, they are just the courts’ interpretation of existing rules, so they do apply to past defaults.
The Default Notice under the Consumer Credit Act will include the following phrases at the top:
‘Important you should read this carefully’
‘Default notice served under section 87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974’.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you could also ask them to produce the CCA agreement for the alleged debt – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/settlements-old-debts-cca/.
John Mercer says
They have not mentioned the new rules its states the default date as 16th August, I have already asked for the CCA, it took them years to produce it which they finally did.
Garth Hessey says
A year ago I had an email from Motormile claiming £1500 for the accounts I held with them Digging into files it appears to have been arrived at by conflating two old accounts from rolling payday loans and I emailed them back saying I didn,t acknowledge liability and would like details .No response. Now I get a” last year you did not take us up on our settlement offer we have extended it” ( from their post FCA beating new name Lantern)
The default notices were back in 2008 so I am not unduely worried but what does disturb me is in the small print of their “offer” has a dividing among “all your accounts” any payments made. I have no intention of paying but is this an attempt to reset the clock for statute barred and /or get payments made to both accounts or even any another accounts they may hold even if one would say have been clearly defensible?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what payments since 2008 have you made to these accounts?
Julie says
Can you be persued for child maintenance after 16 years. No attempts have been made to collect monies. Is this a statute barred debt please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Child maintenance is not subject to the Statute of Limitations. See https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/children-and-young-people/child-maintenance/child-maintenance-2012-scheme/child-maintenance-enforcement/child-maintenance-enforcement-where-to-start/
Kim says
Hi Sara,
I have received 2 letters from Robinson way one in reference to a Santander account which defaulted in 2012 and is no longer on my credit file. There is an outstanding balance and I’m Worried they will add a CCJ. What’s the best course of action?
The second letter I received is in relation to an account with Barclaycard which already has a CCJ on it. The actual account recently fell off my credit file. Are there just chancing? I’ve had no contact about the CCJ I just know it’s there because it’s on my credit file.
I have been struggling with debt since 2011 and the final CCJ will fall off my credit file in 2023. I’m starting to make head way with it and I really don’t have another decade before I can move on with life.
Any advice would be greatly received.
Kind regards
Kim
keith says
i think i need some advice here..can you advise me? i had a letter through the post from lowells stating that i owe x amount of pounds to them ..this so called debt to them is a very old debt, at least from 12 years ago, (lowells not being the original company) .somehow lowells have managed to get a ccj against myself even though i was never informed of anything !!! until this letter came by post a few days ago. im thinking this was a statue barred debt?…im now at a loss as what to do..neither myself or my carer remember having anything through the letter box concerning this matter..from all accounts i had a judgement made agaist me last year, unknown to me..any help or advice would be welcome..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are going to need advice on how to “set aside” this CCJ. I suggest you phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Dan says
Hi Sara,
Have a question about an old doorstep loan.
It’s been over 6 years since any form of payment was made (was in a bad place at the time, moved, etc.) – April 2013 was the last payment made.
It’s now with Lowell and I’ve been asking them for documents and so on including a copy or details of the default letter (the default on my credit file is under Lowell as the company and the default states October 2013 which I believe is incorrect). They wrote back and stated the date of the default letter is w/c 8th July 2013 (which shows the details on my credit file are incorrect) but they cannot/will not provide a copy.
If they cannot provide a copy of the default letter, would the start date of period of limitation be from the last payment made? If they can’t provide one to me, surely they wouldn’t be able to provide one to a court either?!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know when the debt was sold to Lowell?
Did you have other loans from the lender – was it Provident? – before this one?
Have they provided you with a copy of the CCA agreement?
Dan says
Don’t know when it was sold – I assume October 2013 as that’s the date of the default on my credit report (despite then telling me that the default was issued week commencing 8th July 2013).
I did have previous loans from the lender (provident) a couple of times previously.
I asked for all relevant documents – all I got was a photocopy of 1 page of the agreement (no copies of T&C’s which, I understand they should have provided also?) and a “statement” which looked like it had been made/printed from excel.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am assuming that you have not been sent a Claim Form so Lowell has already started a court case. Have they sent a Letter Before Claim/Action – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/
If they start a court case you have at least two possible defence – it is statute barred and they have not produce a complaint CCA. statute barring is now complicated as the above article explains – National Debtline are good people to talk to about this. If you want to discuss whether what you have been sent is a compliant CCA, post on the Legal Beagles forum http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/
But if no court case has yet been started, an alternative approach is to send Provident (not Lowell) an affordability complaint. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refund-doorstep-loans/ for what this is and how to do it. If you win you may get the interest removed from the outstanding debt and may get a refund of interest paid on previous debts. If you do this, forward a copy of your Provident complaint email to Lowell saying you are disputing the debt with provident and ask them to hold court action until your case has been resolved. Which could take a very long while if it has to go to the Financial Ombudsman which is likely as it involves loans that are more than 6 years old.
Dan says
Thanks Sara.
So, if I’ve not already sent an “official” s77 CCA request (which I haven’t – I just asked for a copy of the documents), I could send a full request using a template and sending a postal order in order to get a full picture? My understanding is that they haven’t sent a compliant CCA request response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you had a letter Before Claim/Action?
Dan says
No, I haven’t.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should send a an “official” request as you put it. Template here https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx.
And at the same time start an affordability complaint.
CAM says
Hi Sara,
I have a case going to mediation with Lowell for an old Capital One debt. I have never acknowledged the debt and despite sending Lowell TWO letters and £1 as required, they have not sent me a copy of the CCA agreement as I requested. They simply sent a notification to me stating they had agreed to mediation.
Because of their non-compliance, can I ask at the mediation for this to be thrown out?
Kind regards,
Cheryl.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is a court case underway? I suggest you talk to National debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your defence and/or post on the Legal Beagles forum: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues
CAM says
It was sent to Northampton and I sent in a defence but after speaking with Debt Advice was advised to still apply for a copy of the CCA which I did but Lowells ignored it and haven’t sent one.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Which debt Advice Service did you speak to?
CAM says
The one on your blog
Dawn Clark says
In July 2017, Darlington County Court made a judgement and ordered:
1. Of its own motion, the Court sunnarily strikes out the claim
I then received a letter from the Court dated 29 September 2017 that the jugement had been set aside and removed from my credit reference claim.
I therefore won my claim.
But now the same debt ompany who originally took me to court, has written to me again today demanding payment. Please advise what I should do.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt was this? Who is the Claimant? Why was the claim struck out?
D Clark says
It was a credit card debt from Arrow Global Limited. They took me to Court firstly in Northampton. I rebuked their claim and sent evidence that my last payment to them was over 6 years ago and therefore was statue barrred. Nothampton County Court agreed with the Claimnant, Arrow Global Limited and oredered me to pay the full amount.
I therefore appealed the decision and my case was transferred to Darlington County Court. The Court reviewed the evidence and overturned the previous ruling stating in their view the claim is indeed statue barred and the claim was struck out.
Now Solicitors for Arrow Global are demanding payment according to the old ruling of Northamptpn County Court which was later ruled against by Darlington County Court.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well done!
Have you checked the CCJ was removed from your credit records?
Does this new letter you have sound as though they think you still have a CCJ which they want you to pay? Or as though they know you don’t have a CCJ and they still want you to pay?
Dawn Clark says
Yes the CCJ was removed from my records. But this company is still referring to the first court action in Northampton, which I appealed against in Darlington and won.
So please my question is, what do I do about this letter demanding payment? I won the appeal action, it is statue barred. Do I just ignore this? Or write with proof that they dont have a leg to stand on now because of winning an appeal
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Write back to them – don’t ignore it or soon you will be having to try to ignore bailiffs! Say explicitly that the debt is statute barred, that the Appeal court agreed with this (attach a copy of the decision) and that you will not be paying it. Ask them to confirm they will not contact you again about it.
If you don’t get a reply from the solicitors saying this, put in a formal written complaint to Arrow by emailing them at customerresolution@arrowglobal.net. Put COMPLAINT in the subject line. Attach the Appeal court decision and the letter exchange with their solicitors. Point out that the FCA’s rule CONC 7.15.8R says “A firm must not continue to demand payment from a customer after the customer has stated that he will not be paying the debt because it is statute barred.”
Robbie Payne says
Hello. Sara
The 1980 Limitations Act covers Statute Barred Debt. Sections 5 “7.15.4 & 5 “7.15.8 cover the points you have made in your article.
Can you please inform me where exactly within the act does it state that utility companies must comply with this legislation.
I have been having a running battle with a high street electricity supplier over an alleged debt from seven years back. Their customer relations team firstly informed me they had never heard of Statute Barred Debt or The 1980 Limitations Act. After informing them to go and speak to their compliance officer they have now responded by stating that the act does not apply to them. I have requested them to write to me detailing how they have arrived at this conclusion. Do you know of any court cases that I can read up on regarding this issue. Little Brother will win.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The act doesn’t need to list all the sorts of debts that it applies to. I think you could do with some advice on your specific situation. Yiu could go to your local Citizens Advice or phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Robbie Payne says
Morning Sara.
I had already had discussions with the National Debtline and read the Financial Conduct Authority’s Consumer Credit sourcebook before contacting you.
Your article is this first time I have seen the term Utility referring to electricity, gas, and water suppliers used in any discussions regarding Statute Barred Debt.
What Clause. Paragraph, Sentence, Term. Phrase. Description within the 1980 Limitations Act are you referring to when you state that the act covers utility companies. If as you state the act doesn’t need to list all the sorts of debt how do you arrive at the conclusion that it does cover utility companies.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FCA CONC is not relevant.
I suggest you phone ND up and go through your whole case, why you were behind with the bill, what the date on the bill is (important!), what has happened since, what the utility co is saying now.
Trust me, this is a better way to find out what your options are than reading legislation.
Laura says
Hello, Cabot has purchased a debt from Nationwide which defaulted in August 2013. I haven’t made any payments since then. I have now received a letter from Resolvecall saying they will visit my house if I don’t contact Cabot within 7 days.
I am considering sending either a Prove It letter or CCA request to Cabot to try and avoid a home visit and also delay until it gets statute barred in 8 weeks or so. Can you advise which would be more appropriate?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When you say the debt deafulted in August 2013 do you mean:
1) that was the last time you made a payment?
2) that was the first date you missed a payment?
3) that is the default date on your credit record?
4) that is the date on a Default Notice letter that nationwide sent you?
Laura says
Hi, the last payment I made was in June 2013 but Equifax have told me the default date is August 2013 and that is when it will drop off my credit file.
So I’m guessing August is the ‘official’ default date and when it will become statute barred as well as come off my credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When a debt becomes statute barred is now not an easy question as the article above says. You probably don’t remember if you have ever been sent a Default Notice, it has nothing to do with whether there is a default on your credit record. You could talk to National Debtline about this.
No need to worry about someone coming to the house – you don’t have to talk to them or let them in,. A debt collector has no powers at all,
You could ask for a CCA agreement, what sort of debt was this? Was it sold to Cabot by Nationwide or sold to another debt collector first? If you are hoping the debt may become statute barred, asking for a CCA acknowledges the debt, but I can’t tell how realist the hope is that it may become statute barred.
Laura says
Ok thanks for this, it was a credit card. Maybe I have misunderstood the statute barred situation. I think I have been thinking it’s the same as when an account goes into default and knowing this date is approaching, hoping that once this date arrives the debt will be unenforceable. Have I misunderstood this?
Duncan says
Hi Sarah.
What a fantastically informative web site.
My situation is that between Jan 2007 and Feb 2012 my mother helped my family and I out with loans to repair my house. Although I asked for it to be a loan mum was having none of it and simply tear up the cheques that I sent or send them back. The last time I sent a cheque, although it was returned was in 2012. Mum would not discuss the money. My mum died last October and my brother was the executor of the will along with myself and my older brother. In order to speed up the probate my elder brother and I gave my other brother authority to act as the sole executor. Probate was granted at the end of November. Mums will simply states that all her possessions and money are equally divided between her four children, my sister lives in Canada. My brother, the executor is demanding that I repay all the money that mum gave us. As it was just between mum and I there is no written agreement save for mums accounts that just show that she transferred the money or wrote a cheque. My question is, does the “Statute Barred” apply to this type of situation along with the Limitation Act? I am trying to explain to my brother that it is not for him to retrospectively decide that mum should not have given me the money. Any other advice you could give would be greatly appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this a lot of money? Did your mother leave assets?
Duncan says
Hi Sarah.
The total that he is wanting is£20500 which is made up of four transactions, £6000, £5500, £7900 and £1100 that mum paid for my sons tutor for school, (11 monthly instalments of £100).
Mums only asset is her house which is currently being sold. After the settlement of mums care home fees , estate agent fees and legal fees for the sale, there will probably be £500000 remaining that will be split equally between the four of us.
Is there any way that my brother can force me to repay the money, by court etc?
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though he would have a lot of problems proving these were loans and not gifts.
I think it would be helpful for you to talk to a solicitor who specialises in inheritance, perhaps a STEP member. This is not an area I am an expert in, but I think there is some normal legal presumption that if someone made a large gift, that should reduce the amount they later get through the distribution of the estate. Effectively you would just have got part of your share earlier. If this is the case (I am not a solicitor and do not advise on this!) then this may feel like an appropriate way to resolve the family difference?
Duncan says
Thanks Sarah.
I will seek out some legal advice.
Many thanks once again.
Daz says
Hi Sara,
Great articles on this site that have been of much use to me over the last few years whilst I have been trying to tackle the skeletons in my “debt closet”!
I defaulted on a credit card way back in 2009, and from then until 2016 I was paying token payments to keep the creditor happy. Once I stopped paying (Feb 2016), the debt was assigned to a debt collection company, who have attempted to take me to court for the money; I had the hearing today and it was dismissed in my favour because I had not been served a default notice, and the debt collection company could not prove that one had been served. I am now hoping that the clock will simply tick down on this and that it will become statute barred, however, reading this I am confused because of the “cause of action” criteria; if there exists no default notice, how do I determine cause of action? Does this mean that in theory, this will never become statute barred?!
Another question is relating to the acknowledgement of the debt; I have never written to acknowledge the debt, although in my CCJ court forms I did acknowledge that I have had financial dealings with the original creditor in the past, and mentioned this is court today; does this constitute acknowledgment that I owe the debt, or must it be in writing to the creditor?
Any help much appreciated!!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline or post on the Legal Beagles forum.
Ben says
Hi,
I have a defaulted account listed on report. However before this there are 14 months of missed payments listed. When would the stature barred date be from? Starting with the missed payments or when the account was classed as a default? Many thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago was this default? what sort of debt was it? Were you ever sent a Default Notice by the creditor? Has your debt been sold?
Ben says
Hi, it was a credit card debt. Missed payments started in 2014 but but then in 2016 it says default. Debt has never been sold. Never received a default notice to my knowledge and no correspondence from them and I’m at same address.
Jon says
Hi Sara,
I have a defaulted account on my report from a Nationwide overdraft I opened when I was a student over 5 years ago. The default date is 2014 and this should come off my credit report next year. However, I’m really concerned there is still an unpaid balance. I can happily pay it but everytime I’ve spoken to representative they have told me to ‘maybe’ send a cheque but can’t confirm it will update on my report to reflect payment as there is no account in my name so linking the payment to a debt is impossible. I’m not in a position to send out a cheque blindly and hope for the best – I also don’t have anything to suggest the debt was given to someone else who I could then reach out to perhaps.
1) if I don’t pay this debt before the 6 year period ends, what are the risks for me and can this defaulted account be stuck on my report for another 6 years?
2) do defaulted accounts paid or unpaid once 6 years is over and removed from report instantly improve a rating (if no other reasons for bad credit apply) ?
I will do whatever just to ensure this defaulted account is removed once the 6 years is up
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your questions:
1) the debt could be sold to a debt collector – but it may already have been. At some point the debt will be statute barred – that is hard to assess with an overdraft but having a default date added to your credit record is helpful. You should keep a permanent copy (paper, PDF or both) of a credit report showing this so you can later produce it if this ever disputed – do this whatever option (see below) you decide to go for.
The debt can not reappear for another 6 years. if it does, it is an error and you should ask for it to be removed producing the evidence of the previous default date.
2) yes.
It is always hard to say what someone should do when there appears to have been some error at a lender. But your options would seem to be:
a) send Nationwide a cheque – this doesnt feel like a good move as they say they can’t link it to an account!
b) do nothing, keep an eye on your credit records and look out for letters from debt collectors. the longer this goes with no contact, the better the case for you to say it is statute barred.
c) send Nationwide a written complaint saying you have asked about this debt on your credit record (attach copy), say you do not know if the amount is correct, you don’t think it should be that much if anything. Say you are happy to pay any balance if they can send you a statement of account, but customer services cannot find your account. Ask for confirmation of this.
d) don’t make a complaint but send Nationwide a Subject Access Request (https://portal.nationet.com/forms/Bespoke/GDPR/SARS?sr=a) asking for a copy of all the personal infomration they have about you. Give your name and all previous addresses you have lived at since you think the account was opened. See what they send back. If there is nothing about the account, then you will be in a good position if you are later contacted by a debt collector. If there are account details, they should enable you to pay it or find who it has been sold to.
jon says
Thank you for your quick response. It’s really appreciated.
To ensure I avoid any further issues and get this defaulted account removed (after the 6 year point is up), I want to assume that the debt has been passed over to a debt collector and try to get this balance paid once and for all. I’ve moved house 5 times in the past 5 years and i think one of the biggest reasons I have a defualted account is because of poor attempts made by debt collectors to find me or warn me of any over due payments I hadn’t realised I had a time limit to sort.
All I want to do is pay it off and derisk this all completely – is there a way I can find out if a debt collector has this debt on their books or not? Natwest have been very unhelpful here so far.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I suggest you go for (c) in my options then and see what you get back.
PS Natwest? your previous comments said Nationwide?
jon says
Sorry I originally meant to say Natwest
Beverley says
Hi Sara
I had old debts I think were in status barred after the six years.
I’ve now put them into a payment plan.
Does this mean they are no longer status barred?
Or are they still status barred?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If a debt is statute barred, it will always remain statute barred even if you start paying them. How long was it that you didn’t pay these debts for? What sort of debts are they?
Beverley says
It will be bank loan – credit cards – bank overdraft – store cards
Just trying to find out when my ex separated the debt – I never paid after that could be 2012 or 13 I think
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“when my ex separated the debt” do you mean he was paying your debts before this date and stopped? Or were some of these joint debts?
when did you start the payment plan? have all the debts been marked as defaulted on your credit record? have they all been sold to debt collectors?
Beverley says
My ex left in 2011 he was paying a debt management plan both debts were in mine and his – we have one joint he is still paying as it was his debt even though it was a joint account – I never did another payment plan until feb 2018.
So I am trying to find out when he separated the debt.
All the old debt has been sold on – think few times for some.
I’ll know more when he replies
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, you need some more facts. When you have the dates. phone up National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and ask if they think your debts are statute barred as this isn’t always easy to tell.
But there is another thing that could also help you with the loans, cards and catalogues – not an overdraft – as these are pretty old and have been sold on. Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/. You ask the debt collector for the CCA agreement as that article says – if it can’t be produced then the debt is unenforceable in court and you could simply stop paying.
Beverley says
Thank you Sara
DevilD says
Lowell Solicitors have sent CCJ papers over an old provident debt. I have never acknowledge the debt to them and have always referred to it as the “alleged debt”. Last payment made in early March 2013, LP purchased in August 2014. Default Notice on credit file is dated 16th September 2013 (updated by LP in early 2015 – guess they changed name to them – Experian cannot tell me). LP sent account to LS in Oct 2018 and since then we have been ping ponging about the paperwork/dates etc and now they have taken me to Court.
I intend to defend as during the ping ponging LS confirmed in writing that a DN was sent by their client (guessing this was Provident) on 3rd June 2013 but they cannot provide – I know they don’t have to do but my defence of the Court Action is going to be that: 1. the date of Last payment was over 6 years ago and 2. that as a DN was sent in June 2013 then this is the default date that should be reflected on my credit file (not 16th September) meaning that the debt was SB in either March 2019 or June 2019?
LS of course state the date the DN was added to credit file is the date the debt becomes SB which is why they are trying to push the legal route. Other fact the DN was added just over the 6 months from the date of the last payment – not sure if this relevant.
My question is, is my defence correct and if so how should I word it on the Court Papers? Thank you any help grateful received.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi DevilD, I can’t help you with a court case in progress. I suggest you talk to national debtline on 0808 808 4000. Or post of the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues. Or both!
but in addition to defending this case, did you have a lot of loans from Provident before this last defaulted one?
Alsyanne says
Hi Sara, an interesting article which is relevant to a client I currently have. The client had a joint overdraft and the couple have separated. The overdraft has been called in and was statute barred. One of the debtors has now gone bankrupt. My questions is if there was an IPA or IPO would the payments made by the OR mean the clock restarts for the other debtor? Thanks Aly
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the debt was statute barred it will never become unbarred.
It would also be rare for any IPA to be paid to creditors,,, in most cas s it just pays the OR fees!
Jayne says
Hi Sarah,
I have a statute barred debt from 2006 (last acknowledgment) in my previous married name. Fast forward to today and I’ve recently won a case against a credit card company. Different card but same lender I’ve discovered. I’ve since remarried and my surname has changed. Can they take this redress from me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume you have won a PPI complaint.
The lender may use your redress to repay the statute barred debt. legally they are allowed to do this. Whether they will do that withtwo different cards with the same lender, will depend on the lender’s policy. Changing your name is not relevant.
I’m afraid you just have to wait and see if you get the money!
Jayne says
Thanks. It was at an old address too. It became statute barred there. I never informed them I’d moved then remarried recently.
Jayne says
The debt was also sold
Stephen says
Hi, Sara.
Yesterday I received a letter from the Honours Student Loans re a Notice of Sums in Arrears. My ‘First Notice of Sums in Arrears’ is dated 15/06/2010 as I had not deferred payment on my student loan in time; and it stated the total balance of my principal loan, and separately, the arrears. I heard nothing more about this until there were complications re deferring my student loan at the beginning of 2013 and I received a letter informing me that arrears were accruing on 05/02/2013 due to this.
Demands for payment of the arrears then became more frequent until a default notice was served on 20/03/2013. A debt agency contacted me in July 2013 and I set up an agreement to pay off the principal on a monthly basis. I heard nothing about the arrears from Honours Student Loans until the demand which I received yesterday in which the letter mentioned nothing of the principal debt (as this is being collected by the debt agency), but only the sums of arrears, plus interest, which now totals in excess of £4000.
To clarify: I believe that Honours Student Loans have a cause of action which is older than 6 years, I have never acknowledged the sums of arrears to Honours Student Loans, I have never received a CCJ from them and I have never made a payment to Honours Student Loan. Is the debt statute barred?
Regards
Stephen
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t come across a case like this, I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Hamsher says
Claim form received from County Court Business Centre, Northampton, via Arrow Global, who took on a debt from GE Money. Original loan taken out 17.6.07. No payments made since 2013. Is it statue barred? Is it still enforceable/does it have to be paid?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was the last payment?
Did you get sent a Letter Before Claim/Action with a reply form attached – if you did, did you return that and ask for more infomration?
Ray says
I recently started work for a housing company that is also a member of a ‘Choice Based Lettings Scheme’. When members of the scheme express an interest in renting a property marketed by The housing company, a series of history checks are conducted. If the bidding member is found to have Former Tenant’s Arrears owing to the housing company, they are prevented from progressing further unless the arrears are paid, or at least half the debt is paid and the remainder is written into the new tenancy agreement. This is done regardless of how long the debt has been outstanding, so it is often statute barred. Is this a legitimate method of recovering a statute barred debt, or is it a form of enforcement that breaches the legislative protection?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would have thought the housing company can set any rules it wants over who it gives tenancies to (providing they are not discriminatory of course.)
Barry says
I’ve recently found an old bank statement for a Lloyds TSB account, that I’ve never really used.
The statement is showing the account was £10 overdrawn in March 2013. I don’t know if the account is now with Lloyds or TSB.
Since 2013 this has never shown on any credit report, the address the bank account is registered at is not shown on my credit file. The bank have my phone number and email but have never contacted me. They may have posted letters to the old address but I haven’t lived there since 2012. This “debt” never showed up when I got my mortgage, so I’m a bit confused. I may have even paid the £10, in which case I assume they would have just closed the account due to inactivity. Any advice on what I should do would be greatly appreciated. Should I try contacting the banks? If the account was left overdrawn, will the debt be statue-barred due to the age?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the debt never showed up when you applied for a mortgage, I suggest not worrying about it. You may owe nothing. Or it may be statute barred by the time they contact you if it isn’t now. Statute barring on overdrafts isn’t simple,
Caroline Davies says
I have a credit card debt, many years old that I am now being chased about by a DCA. The debt was statute barred in 2012. I sent the ‘statute barred’ template letter back in May to the DCA. I was very surprised to receive a letter back recently claiming that I had made payments to the alleged debt. They did not specify what payments, when, where of how. I know I have not made any payments to this account. I am at present in a precarious mental health episode & this ‘harassment’ is proving very distressing. What action can I take now??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply saying that you never made any payments after [whatever dat] and asking them for evidence that you did make payments.
As this is a very old credit card debt, I suggest you also ask them to produce the CCA agreement for the debt, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ which explains how to this. Note you have to send them the request using some specific words and enclosing 31.
Debbie says
Hi there
My partner has debts that are 8 years old now. He offered to pay all his creditors £1.00 each per month – all we could afford. One of the debts has been sold to Arrow Global and Drydens- they are trying to get him to fill in a new incoming and outgoing form. Because the debt is so old could it be statute barred because it never went to court and we haven’t acknowledged the debt for over 7 years – or have we acknowledged it by paying the £1.09 per month?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long have you been paying this debt? What sort of debt was it originally?
Amaro says
Hi Sarah
I have received a letter from the county court.
I couldn’t pay my credit card for 1 year, my wife are so nervous we don’t have money at the moment. What we can’t do? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does the letter say “Claim Form” at the top? Or “Judgement for Claimant” or “Letter before action/claim” or something different?