If you get a letter saying you owe money on a debt you don’t recognise, or which you thought you had paid off, you need to challenge the creditor to prove that you do owe the money.
Sometimes debt collectors have simply got the wrong person. This is sometimes called a mis-trace.
This is what the Financial Ombudsman says about mis-traces:
We would ask a debt collector to provide evidence to show that they are seeking repayment from the correct person. It would not be enough to say, for example, that the person has the same name as the borrower or hirer, or even the same name and date of birth. We would look for some convincing reason to link the person to the debt.
First think about whether you might owe this money? If your name is James Lewis they may have got the wrong person; if your name is Edith Chicken that’s less likely. If it seems to be a debt to Orange and you have been with Vodafone for the last 15 years, it probably isn’t yours etc.
When not to send a Prove It! letter
Before you send a Prove It letter, check if any of the following circumstances applies:
- if the letter is addressed to someone else but has your address, this page explains what to do. (NB this is meant for when the letter clearly isn’t for you – not if it has your maiden name or the name is slightly mis-spelled);
- if the debt appears to be old, probably more than six years since you last made a payment to it, then you need to talk to a specialist debt advisor, not reply to the creditor. The time limit for recovering the debt may have run out, so you need to find out more about Statute-Barred Debt and talk to National Debtline;
- the letter has no details about the debt at all Sometimes debt tracing firms send out very vague letter, just inviting you to get in contact. See Prime Location Services – contacting you about a debt for an example. In this case you could decide to just ignore it. But if letter continue to come, take action!
- if you have received court papers, you don’t have time to send a Prove It letter as there are tight timescales to enter a defence. Don’t ignore court papers, otherwise you will get a CCJ. Read What to do if you get a Claim Form and contact National Debtline as soon as possible if you are unsure;
- if the letter says there is already a CCJ (perhaps the court papers went to a previous address?) then the Prove It letter below is not appropriate. You can see if there has been a CCJ issued in the last six years by checking the Trust Online database. If there is a CCJ for a debt you do not recognise, talk to National Debtline about applying for the CCJ to be “set aside”.
Send a Prove It letter
But if you don’t think the debt was ever yours, or you are unsure and it isn’t likely to be close to six years old, then you should write a “Prove it!” letter to the debt collector. Neither deny nor acknowledge the debt, just ask them to supply proof that the debt is yours as follows:
I am writing in response to a letter from you dated [dd/mm/yy], a copy is attached.
If you have reason to believe that a valid debt exists and that the Debtor resides at this address, then please prove the debt in writing.
The FCA rules say you cannot continue any collection activity until you have done so.
Your name
I suggest that you don’t include your telephone number in this letter – dealing with this sort of thing by mail is less stressful. Keep a copy of this letter and send it recorded delivery.
The proof, when and if it comes, should be enough of the following list to prove that you do (or did) owe the money, or indeed indicate that it is somebody else who is the Debtor:
- Credit Application; Loan Agreement;
- Statement of Account showing details and dates of debits and credits including payments, interest and charges to the account and the current amount outstanding;
- Copy of Default notice, copy of formal demand; and
- where the debt has been sold, copies of letters from original creditor stating that, plus letters from the current creditor stating that.
If they can produce these, they may jog your memory. Not all the items on the list may be available, but enough of them have to be to clarify the situation if they want to pursue you.
After you have sent a Prove It letter
You don’t get a reply
If it all goes quiet, then the debt collector may have been on a ‘fishing expedition’ and decided not to bother you any more – so if you don’t hear anything, just file the letters away somewhere and don’t worry.
But if this incorrect debt is showing on your credit records, you want that sorted. Write to the debt collector again after a few weeks, repeat that this debt is not yours and tell them to remove the entry from your credit records with Experian, Equifax and Call Credit. In this case you should also inform the Credit Reference Agencies that the debt is in dispute.
More demands arrive
If they don’t reply with any proof after a few weeks but letters demanding payment continue to arrive, then write a second letter with COMPLAINT in capital letters at the top.
COMPLAINT
On dd/mm/yy I ask you to provide proof that I owed the alleged debt to xxxxxxx. I attach a copy of my letter.
The FCA rules are clear that ” Where there is a dispute as to the identity of the borrower or hirer or as to the amount of the debt, it is for the firm (and not the customer) to establish, as the case may be, that the customer is the correct person in relation to the debt or that the amount is the correct amount owed under the agreement.”
I do not owe this money. You have failed to produce any evidence that I do. If you do not cease to contact me about this debt I shall be complaining to the Ombudsman.
[Please also delete the incorrect entries from my credit records.]
Your name
I have looked at one reader’s case where the debt collector was sending very misleading letters here: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”.
Going to the Ombudsman – which Ombudsman?
If the debt collector ignores this second letter, then I suggest you complain to the relevant Ombudsman after 8 weeks. During this time, make sure you keep a record of any more demands from the debt collector – by phone, text, email or letter.
This will be the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) if the debt appears to be a loan, credit card, catalogue or an overdraft. How to send FOS your complaint is described here.
For other types of debt (energy bills? mobile phones? etc) there are different Ombudsman. Sometimes one will be mentioned on the letter you have received. If not, phone National Debtline and ask who they think you should complain to.
How to ask for a payday loan refund
FAQs on statute barred debt
Misleading & aggressive debt collection
Kerry Thomas says
I am currently being chased for a debt with Robinson Way that I am sure is over 10 years old. I have read a number of pieces of information on here in relation to statute of limitation and that after a certain period of time, the debt is not able to be sent to court and I can dispute the debt being chased. How do I find out the exact statute of limitation on a debt? Even though I believe this debt is older than 10 years ago, I have still received a letter with court fees on confirming a CCJ is being applied to me. How??
Can you advise how may be best to go back to this company, as if they are not able to sue after the statute of limitation, how did this go through a court?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Even though I believe this debt is older than 10 years ago, I have still received a letter with court fees on confirming a CCJ is being applied to me. How??”
Statute barred is a good defence against a CCJ. But it does not stop the creditor from going to court, it is just the way you can win the case.
I can’t tell if Robinson Way are taking you to court to get a CCJ or if they already have done this and you ignored the court papers so you now have a CCJ.
But in either case you need to talk to National Debtline urgently, 0800 808 4000. You need advice on how to defend the Claim or set the CCJ aside. you do NOT want to go back to RW and tell them the debt is statute barred – it is too late for that.
Gareth Gough says
Hi Sara,
Lowell Powell are pursuing a debt that is around 12 years old. They claim I made a payment towards this in 2011 – and that because this was 4 years from the default – its not statute barred.
Two things that are slightly puzzling:
1. Is it right that its 6 years from “which the cause of action accrued.” i.e. even if no acknowledgement towards the debt happens for 20 more years because of a payment in 2011 – 4 years after the default- it can never be statute barred?
2. They claim there is a CCJ but this does not appear on my credit record at all.
I have asked for documented evidence about proving the debt is in my name, no statute barred and evidence payments were made in 2011. So will see that happens!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt was this? When do you think you last made a payment to it? If they are saying there is a CCJ you need to ask for the details of this – if there is a CCJ in place Teheran are not obliged to provide a lot of information about the debt any more.
Squigglebit says
Lowell have been chasing me for a debt, they’ve not been able to prove it and keep sending me letter (most recently 2 weeks ago) to say they still haven’t got any proof.
Today I received a letter demanding payment.
Have just chucked it in the bin. I figure I don’t need to do anything if they still can’t prove it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s better to email them a letter saying you will not be considering paying the alleged debt until they produce the proof that you owe the money. If they send another letter trying to collect, then put in a written complaint.
Kt Vaughn says
Hello
I’ve just come across this site and have already enjoyed reading several articles, thank you!
I’m being chased by Robinson Way for a credit card I never had, the card company originally sent a debt letter, I replied with a prove it letter as I never had a card from them and no card I ever held shared the account number they are claiming I held. A few months after I sent the prove it letter Robinson Way started to send me letter and emails (I’ve no idea where any of these companies got my contact details). The debt is for thousands of pounds I never spent so I sent Robinson Way a prove it letter but they ignored the letter and continue to send me letters threatening court action which I know they can’t do if they have no proof. Robinson Way insist they hve the right to contact me with or withut proof of the debt.
I’ve checked with the credit agencies and none of them have details of this supposed card. It’s deeply upsetting experience and I cannot find any rights that mean I can stop this from happening.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you ever get a reply from the credit card company to your Prove It letter?
How long ago did you send Robinson Way the Prove It letter? Was this by post, if it was did you send it recorded delivery, or email?
Kt Vaughn says
Thanks Sara,
I sent the prove it letter last year on the 23 August 2017 it was sent via signed for delivery and they did receive it but they didn’t respond. The letter and all the letters that have followed have all been telling me different ways I can settle the account with the inclusion of we are looking at taking you to court.
I have been checking my credit reports each quarter but nothing to do with this account shows up anywhere.
Lol surprise says
I have sent a ‘prove it’ letter to Pastdue credit solutions and they have responded requesting personal information because of Data Protection requirements, including previous address and date of birth. How should I respond? It feels as though they are fishing for information.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have they said what the debt is? And do you think you may have owed this?
Lol surprise says
Yes they have, and I don’t think I do.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then just reply you have no knowledge of this debt and it is up to them to prove that it is your debt.
Leanne says
Hi Sarah,
Lowel have sent a letter stating I owe over £700. I genuinely do not believe this is my debt. I have contacted Lowel on several occasions via email. I have not sent a formal prove it letter but every email I have sent them since March 2018 states I do not believe the account and therefore the debt is mine. I have asked them each time to please can you provide information such as date account was opened, address when the account was opened, items purchased, address purchased items were delivered to. They have not provided any information. Then in May I received a pre legal assessment letter stating the account was unsettled and that I needed to contact them to pay. I emailed them asking why they sent this letter, again it is not my debt and to please answer my requests for information. They emailed me back asking if I previously lived at a address, no full address but just the first line. I have previously lived at a address with this first line, the only thing I can think of is that someone may have opened a account at that address after I moved out with my information. I just want them to provide me with information such as a full address and dates so that I can provide proof I did not live there. I am very wary in answering their question. Surely they should be providing me with the proof I have requesting and not be sending me pre legal assessment letters while I am disputing this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds like a catalogue account? Have you ever used this catalogue?
Brian says
Hi,
I have received a debt letter from Cabot saying it represents Santander for approx £500. Clearscore tells me this has a default date of December 2013 (meaning it will drop off my credit file and be stature barred December 2019). Really concerned as I am not sure that this is actually a ‘debt’ I should have incurred or should pay, I do remember having a bank (not sure if it was Santander!) account a very long time ago – but do not think I actually used it, and if memory serves me an account fee was added, which caused an overlimit fee which caused interest and charges and further of the same. I cant 100% remember the particulars, but I may have contacted this bank stating the obvious unfairness of the charges and heard nothing until this Lowell letter.
If I send a prove it letter, will this reset the clock on the statute bar? also, if they are able to ‘prove’ the so called debt by providing statement of account etc., is there any recourse to challenging the amount due to it being interest and charges on interest and charges?
Advice or insight very very welcome, thanks!
Brian
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Prove It! letter in the article above would not reset the clock because it does not acknowledge the debt. I suggest you take this a step at a time and send the letter, then decide what to do later if they can show you do owe the money.
Brian says
Thank for your help Sara :-)
Is there any information about challenging unfair charges ‘racking up’ debt from an organisation, which I thought was resolved, rather than any actual debt (i.e. a loan or CCard) which I would be happy to acknowledge and resolve.
Thanks,
Brian
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It will depend on why you thought the situation “was resolved” – this is to be argued on a case by case basis as to why it is unfair on you.
Jane says
Hi Sara,
Since February this year, my husband has started to receive letters from WageDay Advance, Satsuma and QuikQuid saying that he has loans with them that need repaying. He doesn’t have any loans. We have sent prove it letters to all three. We have also sent a letter of complaint to Satsuma as they have continued to send letters but have not proved the debt belongs to him. We have now had letters saying that WageDay Advance have instructed Moorcroft Debt Recovery and QuikQuid have instructed ARCEUROPE to recover the amounts. Along with the prove it letters (sent and received by recorded delivery), my husband has also phoned all three (WageDay Advance, Satsuma and QuikQuid) telling them that the debts are not his. What do we do? They have not proved that they are his but they keep sending letters. I dread the post arriving every day. In addition, he has now had a letter from Visa Vanquis saying that he has an unpaid credit card. He doesn’t have an account with them. On speaking to them, it seems that the account number doesn’t exist and that it will be sorted out at their end. Why is this happening? Do you have any advice about what we should do? It’s really starting to get us down.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Either he has been consider with another person by mistake – the wrong address being linked to his name at a Credit Reference Agency say – or he has been the victim of identity theft. See the advice in this article: https://debtcamel.co.uk/debts-you-dont-recognise/.
Jane says
Thank you, we have followed your advice and sure enough, all of the payday loans and Visa Vanquis account appear on his credit reports. He emailed Experian last week, explaining all of the above, in the hope they might advise what to do next but we haven’t heard anything from them. The letters keep coming in the post, my husband continues to contact the companies but they take no notice. We have spoken to CAB but their main advice was that the companies had to prove the debt was his – we’ve already gone over this time and time again with the companies and they provide absolutely no evidence. Should we report this to Action Fraud? What do we do to get this sorted out? I am so worried.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
[edited]
This answer was really long, so I’ve turned it into an article: https://debtcamel.co.uk/loans-using-your-name-stop-identity-theft/
Jane says
Thank you so much for your detailed response. We have contacted Action Fraud and registered with Cifas. Letters of complaint have been written this evening to the three pay day loan companies and Visa Vanquis. Just one question, after completing the fraud report form online (Action Fraud), we got an Information Report Reference Number. I presume this is the number we quote on each of our complaint letters? We haven’t emailed them yet as we wanted to make sure we’ve got this correct as sometimes it is referred to as a ‘police crime reference number’.
Thankfully we don’t need to re-mortgage until 2021, by which time I hope this awful experience will be well and truly behind us. I just hope that the loan companies will actually take the letters seriously this time (another letter arrived in the post today).
Once again, thank you for guiding us through this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“we got an Information Report Reference Number. I presume this is the number we quote on each of our complaint letters? ” yes it is. Good luck – do come back and say how things go!
Jane says
Hi Sara,
So we sent the letters of complaint to the three pay day loan companies plus Vanquis Visa (both by email and recorded delivery). I was feeling positive as the post stopped arriving…until today. Another letter arrived from Moorcroft Debt Recovery, on behalf of Wage Day. They wrote to inform my husband that they would be making a visit to our house as no payment had been made. At this point, I lost all sense of calm. My husband phoned both Moorcroft and Wage Day – they were both hopelessly unhelpful. WageDay couldn’t even find the complaint letter sent to them and informed us that it takes 8 weeks for a letter to be uploaded to their system. My husband then basically went through his letter of complaint verbally, providing his crime reference number etc.
What puzzles us is that they both asked for his bank details – who he banks with and his account number and card number. He refused to give them any detail but did name his bank. Why would they need this information? Was he right to withhold it?
We are both at our wits end with this now. I’m afraid to be in my own house with the fear of somebody turning up to demand money for a loan that my husband doesn’t have.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A debt collector has no right of entry – and they are probably just bluffing anyway.
If he had given them his bank account details, they would be able to see that they had transferred the money into a different account.
Jane says
Hi Sara,
A bit of an update on the pay day loan letters. We are still no further forward. 5 months on and my husband repeatedly follows a cycle of receiving another letter saying that he has a loan, he then rings them to remind them of the prove it letter sent – we have NOT had a reply from any of the loan companies to prove that the loans belong to my husband. They then tell him they will put it on hold while they investigate. Sure enough, after a month or so, the next letter arrives demanding money – as if we’ve never made contact with them. What should we do? The latest letters are from BW Legal staying that they will commence legal proceedings in the county court.
The loans do not belong to my husband but when we are feeling weak, we are almost on the verge of paying thousands of pounds to them, just to put an end to this misery. Should we go to the financial ombudsman or get a solicitor? How can we get this resolved?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a depressing update, not to have sorted any of the loans out :( Even if they were going to reject your complaint, they should at least have replied to it!
What you need to do now is send a separate complaint to the Finanical Ombudsman about each of the four lenders: Wageday Advance, Satsuma, QuickQuid and Vanquis. I suggest you use their online form https://help.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/help which asks you for all the details they need.
In the “Please tell us what your complaint is about” section put IDENTITY THEFT in capitals at the start. Then say about the letters you have been receiving, how your husband has never had a payday loan from anyone, how you have told them this – list the dates and ways – but the letters keep coming from debt collectors. Say you have reported this to Action Fraud, give your reference number, and told the lender this. Say you put in a formal complaint on dd/mm/yy by email and recorded delivery but you have not had a reply to this. Say how distressing you are finding this. Mention on the Wageday Advance complaint that Moorcroft said they would send a debt collector to your house.
In the “How do you want the business to put things right for you?” I suggest you say you want the lender to confirm that your husband has never borrowed from them, you want the letters from the debt collectors to stop and you want the loans to be removed from your husband’s credit records with all credit reference agencies. And that you would like compensation of £200 for the distress and hassle this has caused you, not for the original problem but for the lender’s failure to resolve the issue despite your numerous contacts.
Keep a copy of what you put in for the first one then you can just change it slightly for the next ones!
BW Legal – are you just getting threatening general letters or have you had a Letter Before Action/Claim? This is a letter with a lot of forms attached including one which says Reply Form – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/.
Jane says
BW legal letters started arriving in September saying that there are 2 more pay day loans (dating back to 2014). We contacted them and were told that they were applied for online at an address that my husband once lived at – but he wasn’t living there when the loans were applied for. Most recent letters are annual statements offering a discount if we pay off the amount due! Original letter was a letter of claim.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Original letter was a letter of claim.” I want to be clear – was this a Letter before Claim, including a Reply Form? See the link I gave to check what you have been sent. That is the last step before starting court action.
Jane says
Yes, looking back at the paperwork I believe it was. We returned the reply form with our crime ref number and ticked box D. We also attached a letter of complaint but never heard anything until last week with the threat of court proceedings.
They have also sent another letter (about another alleged pay day loan). My husband phoned them and they were going to investigate. Again, we heard nothing more until last week – another letter suggesting court proceedings if he doesn’t pay.
What should we do about these?
Will go straight to the Ombudsman as you have suggested with regard to the other payday loans discussed previously.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go to the Ombudsman about the loan that is with BW legal as well – but you are complaining about the original lender (who was it?) not BW Legal. On this complaint to the Ombudsman say you are being pursued by BW Legal for the debt and have been sent a Debt Pre Action Protocol Letter Before Claim.
Then send BW Legal an email saying you have put in a complaint about the loan to the lender, that you deny you have ever borrowed any money from the lender and have reported it to Action Fraud. (I expect you have already done this but repeat it). Ask them to hold any court action until your ombudsman complaint is resolved.
Jane says
We are onto it right now. Thank you for your help. Hope to update you with better news soon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are going to win this. It is just tedious getting there!
Jane says
I do hope you are right. We are at our wits end with it all. Your support is much appreciated! The funny thing is, my husband had an IVA in 2010 (previous divorce troubles) so he wasn’t aware that he could even get a loan.
Lucas says
Hi there,
I have been chased by Lowell for a while for a mobile phone contract debt from a few years ago but less than 6. I have ignored them and now I received the County Court claim papers. Lowell have called me since this claim was issued and I didn’t pick up. When I called them to ask why they are still calling me the woman denied these calls (which stopped since, strangely enough) and said that the only way was for me and her to go through the admission form of which she had a copy in front of her. I wasn’t comfortable doing it with her so I said I’d seek an independent advice. Next day I acknowledged the claim with intention of defending it hoping they won’t be able to prove that I owe them money, won’t provide any of the information you mention in this article. I heard it was a good idea as I build my defence to send them a letter asking them to provide the relevant documents and also sending the same letter to their CEO adding that his representative tried to trick me into completing the form the way that worked for them. The clock is ticking, I know but would appreciate the advice. After researching for a few days I know there are ways to win and one of them is to confront them even at this stage and require proof and their right to take me to court for this debt. Any advice would be appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/court-claim-form/ which covers what to do if you get a Claim Form.
lucas says
Would the stamp always have the town name in the circle? The claim I received is a photo copy and the “stamp” looks like the one in the picture you attached to the article but doesn’t have the word Northampton in it, just the county court….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As that article suggests, call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They can help with this and with helping you to look at your options for defending this claim.
Stacy says
I continued on with my defence and a week before court they wrote knowing they full well didn’t av all the documentation as debts are bought on a long list for pennies a piece saying they wasn’t pursuing legal action and closing the case. Stick to your guns !
Rob says
Hi Sara,
I have received a letter from Lowell stating that I owe just over £700. The have attached a letter from E-on energy to say they had sold the debt to Lowell. There is an account number on there from E-on and a new one from Lowell. I don’t believe I owe this as I have never fallen into arrears. The only thing I can think of is that my ex partner had opened an account after I had left. I can’t even remember being with E-on. I haven’t lived at the address stated since September 2013, but as this has come about within the 6 years, I didn’t know whether they are trying their luck. Could it be that my ex hasn’t paid and so they are chasing me? The reason I ask is that she dodged paying council tax for a while after I moved out and the council ended up taking £300 out of my wages every month and told me there was nothing I could do.
PS, I am still writhing the 30 days since I received the letter from Lowell.
Many thanks
Rob
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you sent a prove it letter? You need to ask for a copy of the original bill showing the years it relates to, say that to the best of your knowledge there were no arrears when you lived in the house. You may need to provide some proof of where you moved to in September 2013.
Rob says
I haven’t sent one yet, can I email this or does it need to be through the post? I was actually homeless until May 2014, I stayed with a family member a couple of times over those months.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can email it. If you didn’t tell Eon you had left the property and you can’t prove that you did, this may be a difficult case for you. Did you change the address on your bank statements perhaps? If you think you did, ask your bank when
Rob says
Hi, Lowell have gotten back to me and asking for my date of birth for security. Do I need to give them this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes.
Mark says
Hey,
I had a phone line with EE and I asked them to cancel it as they did not at the time provide any tariffs for America and I was going to work on cruise ships.
I was out of the country for 2 years and I returned last year. This year a letter arrives out of the blue saying that there is a CCJ against my name.
I am going to send a prove it letter but what else can I do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A Prove It! letter is useless if there is already a CCJ.
First you need to check that there is a CCJ, look on Trust Online https://www.trustonline.org.uk/search-yourself . If you have moved, first look under your old address as that is more likely.
Assuming there is, you need to look at how to get the CCJ “set aside”, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/help-ccj/ and talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this. Unfortunately there is a fee to pay unless you are on a low income.
Then you will need to put in a complaint to EE. This is going to be easier if you told them to cancel your account in writing, or if on the phone you have the date and details of who you spoke to and whether they agreed to do this.
Amy says
Hi, I recently checked my credit report and found that a company had issued me with a CCJ for a debt that I have never heard of. I have not received any paperwork, court papers, debt letters or anything to do with this debt yet it has appeared on my credit file! I contacted the court who said I can pay to set it aside but since then, I’ve received a letter from a debt agency claiming they now own this debt and I need to pay them! Can they do this (issue a CCJ but then chase me using a different company)? Also if I send them a ‘Prove it’ letter and they have no proof, can I then get them to remove the CCJ or will I still have to pay to have it set aside?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A Prove It letter won’t work at this point, you need to apply to set this aside. If you are on a low income you may be able to get help with the fees. Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and they will explain what you need to do.
Elizabeth says
Hi Sara
I have 2 very old debts with IDEM (which you previously helped me with – thank you). I haven’t paid anything towards since January 2017. I did successfully eventually manage to get them off my credit reference files. I wrote to them about 6 months ago requesting a copy of the CCA agreement. They wrote back saying they can’t find it, but that they will continue to recover the debt anyhow, blah, blah. All they have done is send a statement once a month for 1 of the accounts (never anything about the other one).
I have recently received a letter from Wescot who claim to be collecting on IDEM’s behalf. Do I respond to Wescot and tell them that IDEM can’t find the CCA and copy them the letter, and until they do, please leave me alone, or do I just ignore Wescot’s letters altogether please? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well done for getting them off your credit record – how did you get them to do this in the end?
Just tell Westcoy you will not be paying anything to the debt until the CCA agreement, which you asked for in 20xx has been produced.
Elizabeth says
It was a very long long slow process with IDEM, 2 years all in. I went via FOS who unfortunately didnt rule in my favour re Defaults (I think this appears to be rare on old debts if your still paying) but they had to backdate a Default Date to 2013 if I stopped paying again, which obviously I did! The backdate never came either, so I sat back for another couple of months (whilst at the same time pestering FOS) , all the while watching my CRF. Indeed, they made an absolute Monumental Muck up of my files, putting DMP’s back on an all sorts (!) which never existed. I then subsequently sent them the mother of all letters, stating I had spoken to FCA, FOS again and threatened them with all these and the UTCCR and that I had to report back to FCA within 14 days. I copied all their eronous errors from my CRF’s with the letter, wrote on them in thick black markers and highlighted the lot, the letter was huge! After 2 years, they finally, to my shock wrote back stating they could now see what had happened and apologised, removing both accounts from my CRF’s ( I truly could not believe it and it brought such relief after 2 long years or mass correspondence). These accounts were from 2009 MBNA. Persistence, timing and relentlessness were the key! Wescot are definately on a fishing expedition, I received another letter this week! Shall I send them a copy of IDEMS letter from 2017 to me saying they cant find the CCA ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good idea to send Westcot a copy of IDEM’s 2017 letter saying they can’t find the CCA. Say the debt is unenforceable until they do find it and you will not be settling it until they do.
Alan says
Hi there,
Thank you for this valuable advise. It’s rather helpful.
I’ve had a debt on my EDF energy account and we agreed a prepaid meter to be installed to clear the debt. Each time we topped up the agreed amount was deducted from the meter for the debt. We’ve cleared the debt this way until the meter shown no debt. We even called the EDF to confirm if the debt has been cleared. Most of the time top ups were paid by cash and sometime by debit card. This was about 3 years ago. But now Lowell chasing us for that debt by claiming it’s unpaid. At first the person from Lowell called me asked my name and I confirm that is me. Then she gave the address that the debt belongs to. She said firs I have an unpaid debt belongs to address number 4, xxxx St. I said I haven’t lived in number 4, I lived in number 6. Then she claimed that she said number 6. Now they expecting me to prove the payment details of the debt. How can I prove the debt was cleared using prepaid meter? Any idea?
Kind regards
Alan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you still with EDF?
Alan says
Thank you Sara for replying. No I am not. This so-called debt for the period of 2011-2013. We accepted to pay via prepaid meter in 2012. We moved from that property in 2013 but didn’t changed our energy supplier to clear all debt. After debt has been cleared we continued to use prepaid meter as we liked the idea of not dealing with bills. 3 years ago we moved out from that property too and we changed our supplier this time. I do remember the person from EDF I spoken over the phone said all cleared. I’ve even received £10.00 top up voucher gift which I forgot to claim. 3 years have passed, and now I’ve received a letter from Lowell claiming that we still owe the debt. They can’t prove our payments they say and asking us to prove. So no idea how to prove the deductions made from our prepaid meter on each time we topped up as our edf account is inaccessible. Another thing when we closing our account the person said all clear.
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, well I suggest you put in a formal written complaint to Lowell saying all this, with as many dates and details as you can remember.
In addition, I suggest you send Lowell (support@lowellgroup.co.uk) and EDF ( dpo@edfenergy.com ) a Subject Acces Request asking for all the personal information they have about you. Put COMPLAINT – REQUEST FOR PERSONAL INFORMATION (SAR) as the email title. For EDF make sure you giev all your relevant addresses so they can trace all your details.
Also check your credit records with all three credit reference agencies, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/.
This is a bit like a jigsaw. you don’t know where you will find information that will help support your case, so ask for everything!
Hayley Byrne says
Hi I have a an old debt with a catalogue company, the debt has been sold to Lowells and until recently I was making regular payments to Lowells. I recently queried the outstanding balance after reading some posts on here regarding these companies making mistakes as the outstanding balance does appear quite high. They have not been able to provide me with any information with regards to the debt and have come back to me stating that because of the age of the account the original credit agreement is no longer available. I’m not disputing that I had an account with the catalogue company but I am disputing the amount that they say I owe however they cant even provide me with a statement going back that far detailing what the goods were I bought so that I can reconcile it myself. What should I do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have good news – if the debt collector cannot produce the CCA agreement, then the debt is unenforceable in court and you can stop paying! See the “What if I do not get what I asked for?” section in https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx.
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? If so, what is the default date on the debt?
Hayley Byrne says
Hi Sara
Thank you so much for that, the debt has long since disappeared off my credit file. So I have the letter from Lowell saying they cannot produce the original CCA but that they still say they consider I owe the money. should I just ignore this or should I write to them advising that I do not intend to pay as I don’t agree with the outstanding balance?
Thank you so much for all your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you do reply saying that yo dispute the balance and you will not be making any repayments until they can produce the agreement and a complete statement of account.
Hayley Byrne says
Hi Sara I wrote to Lowell’s saying I disputed the balance, they have advised that because I have paid approximately £500 to them already I have admitted liability for the debt, are they correct? As I say I’m not disputing that I had a debt with the catalogue company but I am disputing the amount they say is remaining.
Are they just bluffing and should I stick to my guns with not paying anymore until they can prove the balance?
Thank you so much
Hayley
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“I have admitted liability for the debt”
well yes and no. Making payments means you agree that there is a debt (as you point out) and this would stop a debt becoming statute barred but that isn’t an issue here, that is a red herring. It does NOT mean that the debt is enforceable in court OR that you agree with the amount.
I think you should speak to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this – I expect them to confirm what I have said, that unless Lowell can produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court. And unless they can produce a statement of account, it is also unreasonable to ask you to keep paying – how would you know when the whole debt had been repaid if Lowell cannot explain the current alleged balance?
With National Debtline having confirmed this to you, you can go back to Lowell and confidently tell them that you have spoken to ND who say the debt is not enforceable and you will not be making any more payments until they find the documents.
Emma Louise says
Hi Sara,
I received a letter from Lowell on the 29th October this year stating I owed £1000 for an o2 bill. I don’t believe this debt is mine. They have however gone ahead and filed a ccj on me. I’ve emailed them several times asking for a prove it letter… as the only thing I can think of is my ex had a phone with o2 8 years ago. Which was in joint account. They email me back with no proof but telling me i need to pass dpa. Which I have passed?! They haven’t responded in over a week to me with regards to this? Can you please advise?
I’ve checked there’s an outstanding ccj with Lowell
Thanks
Emma
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, in this situation a Prove It letter normally doesn’t work well. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about what your options are – these could include “setting aside” the CCJ, but that normally means the CCJ case is restarted, so you only want to do this if you have a defence to it.
Emma says
What will that mean?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have different options. You could make an arrangement to pay the CCJ. If you have a lot of other debts, what you do may depend on those as well. You could try to get the CCJ cancelled (“set aside”) because you never got the court papers, but then you normally just get sent new court papers so unless you have a defence to the court case (eg the amount is wrong or you have paid it, or it was never your debt) there is no point in doing this. A joint mobile account sounds unusual. National Debtline can talk through all your options, I can’t, please phone them!
Emma says
That’s great thanks.. it was joint as it was through a staff account. I don’t have any other debts so i’l contact them now
Thanks for your help
Emma says
Hi Sara,
Lowell have sent me a letter of proof. 🙂 it says the last time a payment was made was April 2012 to the original creditors. And the account defaulted in November 2012. Wouldn’t this be classed as a status barred?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Once there is a CCJ a debt never becomes statute barred :(
Emma says
But surely it was status barred? Before the ccj?
I’ve checked and no payments where made from me in April 2012?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If it was a joint account, any payments from your ex may have prevented it becoming statute barred. But if you think it was statute barred, then as I said you can apply to get it set aside and then use being statute barred as a defence. Talk to National Debtline.
Emma says
Ok brill thanks Sara i’l let you know the outcome! X
Kris says
Just to say thank you for this page.
Two years after I settled a claim by EE, I started receiving letters from Lowells, that they have bought the (already settled) debt from EE. After ignoring the letters for a few months, they finally threaten me with legal action. So I sent them the letter which I found on your website. They then came back that they will request further documents from EE. After another month, Lowells sent me a letter that the case is closed and they apologize for the inconvenience.
Fian says
Hi Sarah,
great page!
I am being asked to repay a debt owed to RBS credit card for over £2000 by cabot financial. I have no idea about this debt, when i rang them to enquire i told them i was in excellent standing with the RBS and had been for 20 years or more. I have recently switched to another bank because of branch closures but before i did i asked my bank manager if she could see anything on my file at the bank and she said no. Funny thing is that cabot say that the account opened in 2004, defaulted in 2008 but has had regular payments up until a couple 3 years ago. I have no idea where these payment were coming from as they certainly weren’t from me but cabot cannot tell me who’s account they were being paid from. I have checked my credit file and there is nothing at all regarding RBS, only my previous good history with them. I have told them numerous times that i know nothing about this debt, they always say they will have to investigate and call me back but then 2 days later i get another call from someone else asking the same old script. I have sent them a prove it letter do you think that this will be enough to stop them harassing me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Give them a few weeks then put in a formal written complaint if the calls continue and they have not replied to your letter.
fian says
Great thank you Sara, seems to have done the trick for now, no more calls hooray. Just a final question, i have read somewhere that cabot have a habit of taking people to court without informing them beforehand and subsequently they end up with a ccj that they have to fight to get removed. Is this true and how can i prevent them doing so.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you shouldn’t always believe the stories you stumble across on the internet. If Cabot now know where you live there shouldn’t be a problem with this unless you then move.
James says
Hi,
Few months ago I received a letter from Robinsons way about a debt a property I never lived at. I called them and told them I never lived at the property and dont have any outstanding debts with anyone. I came to know that they bought the debt from halifax. I am also made a formal complaint to halifax fraud depatment becuase I am halifax customer as well. Halifax investigated the issue and said Robinson is mixing my identity with a different person. I asked Robinson ways to pay me conpensation for all the hassle but they refused. Robinson way said they contacted me in good faith and took the information from credit referce agency. I checked credit referce agency but there is no association. Is it worth it to take them in financial ombudsman because they did not investigate properly before sending me letter? I went through all hassle without any reason.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much hassle was it? If it was a just a letter which you called up about, then I doubt this is worth pursuing. If RW kept sending you letters or phoning even though you had told them you never lived there then it might be.
james says
I received only one letter. I made a formal complaint to Robinsons Ways as well. They took 12 weeks to tell me that they contacted me in good faith. During 3 months time I went through lot of stress because in my mind that some took money on my name. After halifax investiation I found that Robinson way use fishing net technique to contact people without verifyiny their identity properly. It was a just letter for Robinson way but it spoiled my 3 months with my family.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I understand, but I think it’s going to be hard to get compensation from FOS for just receiving a letter and replying to it.
Dave says
Credit was taken out in our daughters name at our old address nine months after we moved out we have been trying to resolve this with Lowell for four years but nothing stops them hounding her and putting defaults on her credit file any advice would be appreciated sorry to post here new to site
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You say credit – are this loans, credit cards that sort of thing?
She has complained in writing to Lowell I assume – what has been their response?
Dave says
There was a simply be account and a fashion world. We complained and they asked for proof she didn’t live there. They wouldn’t accept our tenancy agreement as it wasn’t in her name. She was 16 so didn’t have utility bills so she got a letter from her doctor stating when she joined their practice at our new address in a different part of the country we even reported it as fraud to the police and got a crime ref but still that wasn’t good enough grrrr
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Grrr indeed :(
I suggest you (or rather she, as she is now over 18) goes back to them and sends them a copy of her birth certificate, pointing out that aged 16 she could not legally have entered into a credit agreement with simply Be or Fashion World. Repeat the crime reference number and ask them to confirm that they accept that the debts are not hers and to remove them from her credit record. If this is not resolved in 8 weeks, she should send a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman (see https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm) and ask for compensation for the years of hassle.
Let me know how this goes?
Lorna says
Hi iv received letters from Lowell chasing catalogue debt, I sent prove it letter and received a cca and a very poor statement, more like a summary. I’m not disputing the debt but the amount doesn’t add up. Some figures have a question mark next to them where there should be a description of what the amount is actually for. Am I entitled to receive a copy of the original statement from the catalogue? Just want to be sure I’m paying the correct amount. Also they refer in their letter to a pre action protocol but don’t give any time scale for this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What exactly do they say about a pre action letter? Have you ever received a letter from them which may have the heading “Letter before action” or “Letter before Claim” which has various attachments including one that says Reply Form?
Lorna says
They say if they ‘do not receive a response within the timescale provided by the pre-action protocol they’ll continue the pre-action process which could result in a claim form’ the original letter states letter of claim.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, there is more about the Letter Before Claim and how to complete the Reply Form here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/.
You need to complete the Reply Form and return it within the 30 day period – if you don’t the next letter you are likely to get may be a Claim Form from the court. It is easier to dispute a debt now, rather than to defend the case in court.
Sending a Prove It letter is NOT a good alternative to completing the Reply Form as it does not give you extra time.
In your case I think you need to talk to someone about your concerns that the amounts do not add up. Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They can look at this issue and talk about what that means for completing the Reply Form.
Lesley says
HI
I sent a prove it letter to Robinson’s Way as I have no recollection of debt they say I owe and have a reply saying that they cannot “provide specific details to your dispute” and we have marked your account as unenforceable meaning we will not pursue legal action and have informed our client to remove any reporting on your credit file. however the above account remains outstanding.
I have now received a letter asking me to get in touch to arrange a payment plan.
According to them it is regarding an account opened in 2004 and taken over by Hoist Finance on 19/12/13. My question is I do not have any recollection of this debt and they cannot provide any proof it is my debt so why should I agree to a payment plan?? and how do I politely tell them that unless they can prove this is my debt I will not be paying it???
also as it was taken over in 2013 and I live in Scotland is it not statute barred??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did the letter asking you to arrange a payment plan also repeat that the debt was unenforceable? It should have! If it didn’t, please say.
If it did, I suggest you replay saying you have no recollection of the debt and you will not be making any payments towards it. Keep copies of all correspondence.
I wouldn’t complicate things with mentioning that the debt is statute barred. If they are mad enough to go to court (they won’t!) you can add that as an additional defence then. But for now it’s easier to keep things short and sweet.
Lesley says
Thanks for replying…
Second Letter did not say the debt was unenforceable.
It basically said it is important you pay and if you don’t you risk further collection activity on the account.
Jonathan Tin says
Hi,
I have been receiving threatening letters from Extra Energy (who are now in administration), threatening debt collection for a property I lived in a few years ago. However there are multiple factors which make me believe they are fraudulent, for example the account numbers on the letters vary amongst themselves and don’t even match my original account number, and I was not the actual named account holder during that period (my old flatmate was and hasn’t received any similar letters), and a clear figure of the debt alongside the exact time period in question was not stated. 5. We also have record of our final bill, which was settled with no outstanding debt, and in fact there was credit due which was received by all tenants. I am therefore nearly sure that I don’t need to act but I am obviously still quite wary that ignoring the letter completely might not be the wisest thing to do. Is there any advice anyone can give me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This sounds complicated. The best thing would be if you could go to your local Citizens Advice with the letters and the final bill. Don’t ignore it unless you enjoy the idea of a court case…
And a Prove It letter isn’t the best approach. You do know who Extra Energy are and why they are writing to you, but you dispute you owe anything – it’s better to address that point directly.
Sarah Walters says
Hi
My husband recently received a text from a company called Lantern regarding an outstanding debt, we emailed a prove it letter to them, they have replied back asking my husband for his full name, date of birth and first line of address and email address before they will discuss this with him due to DPR but we have no clue what it’s for or even how much. What do you recommend?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you moved in the last 6 years? Is it likely that your husband has debts with a debt collector?
Sarah says
Hi he moved in years ago, yes he has which we’ve been paying off but have no idea what this one is and nothing is showing up on his credit report
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it sounds as though the loan probably is genuine then, you just don’t know which. He could replay giving his name and address, they already have his email, but decline to give the date of birth until they tell him more about what the debt is.
Sarah says
That’s great, thanks for the advice