If you get a letter saying you owe money on a debt you don’t recognise, or which you thought you had paid off, you need to challenge the creditor to prove that you do owe the money.
Sometimes debt collectors have simply got the wrong person. This is sometimes called a mis-trace.
This is what the Financial Ombudsman says about mis-traces:
We would ask a debt collector to provide evidence to show that they are seeking repayment from the correct person. It would not be enough to say, for example, that the person has the same name as the borrower or hirer, or even the same name and date of birth. We would look for some convincing reason to link the person to the debt.
First think about whether you might owe this money? If your name is James Lewis they may have got the wrong person; if your name is Edith Chicken that’s less likely. If it seems to be a debt to Orange and you have been with Vodafone for the last 15 years, it probably isn’t yours etc.
When not to send a Prove It! letter
Before you send a Prove It letter, check if any of the following circumstances applies:
- if the letter is addressed to someone else but has your address, this page explains what to do. (NB this is meant for when the letter clearly isn’t for you – not if it has your maiden name or the name is slightly mis-spelled);
- you know what the debt is and it is old, more than six years since you last made a payment to it, then you need to talk to a specialist debt advisor, not reply to the creditor. The time limit for recovering the debt may have run out, so you need to find out more about Statute-Barred Debt and talk to National Debtline;
- the letter has no details about the debt at all Sometimes debt tracing firms send out very vague letter, just inviting you to get in contact. See Reunite or Prime Location Services – contacting you about a debt for an example. In this case you could decide to just ignore it. But if letter continue to come, take action!
- if you have received court papers, you don’t have time to send a Prove It letter as there are tight timescales to enter a defence. Don’t ignore court papers, or you will get a CCJ. Read What to do if you get a Claim Form and contact National Debtline as soon as possible if you are unsure;
- if the letter says there is already a CCJ (perhaps the court papers went to a previous address?) then the Prove It letter below is not appropriate. You can see if there has been a CCJ issued in the last six years by checking the Trust Online database. If there is a CCJ for a debt you do not recognise, talk to National Debtline about applying for the CCJ to be “set aside”.
Send a Prove It letter
But if you don’t think the debt was ever yours, or you are unsure and it isn’t likely to be close to six years old, then you should write a “Prove it!” letter to the debt collector. Neither deny nor acknowledge the debt, just ask them to supply proof that the debt is yours as follows:
I am writing in response to a letter from you dated [dd/mm/yy], a copy is attached.
If you have reason to believe that a valid debt exists and that the Debtor resides at this address, then please prove the debt in writing.
The FCA rules say you cannot continue any collection activity until you have done so.
Your name
I suggest that you don’t include your telephone number in this letter – dealing with this sort of thing by mail is less stressful. Keep a copy of this letter and send it recorded delivery.
The proof, when and if it comes, should be enough of the following list to prove that you do (or did) owe the money, or indeed indicate that it is somebody else who is the Debtor:
- Credit Application; Loan Agreement;
- Statement of Account showing details and dates of debits and credits including payments, interest and charges to the account and the current amount outstanding;
- Copy of Default notice, copy of formal demand; and
- where the debt has been sold, copies of letters from original creditor stating that, plus letters from the current creditor stating that.
If they can produce these, they may jog your memory. Not all the items on the list may be available, but enough of them have to be to clarify the situation if they want to pursue you.
After you have sent a Prove It letter
You don’t get a reply
If it all goes quiet, then the debt collector may have been on a ‘fishing expedition’ and decided not to bother you any more – so if you don’t hear anything, just file the letters away somewhere and don’t worry.
But if this incorrect debt is showing on your credit records, you want that sorted. Write to the debt collector again after a few weeks, repeat that this debt is not yours and tell them to remove the entry from your credit records with Experian, Equifax and Call Credit. In this case you should also inform the Credit Reference Agencies that the debt is in dispute.
More demands arrive
If they don’t reply with any proof after a few weeks but letters demanding payment continue to arrive, then write a second letter with COMPLAINT in capital letters at the top.
COMPLAINT
On dd/mm/yy I ask you to provide proof that I owed the alleged debt to xxxxxxx. I attach a copy of my letter.
The FCA rules are clear that ” Where there is a dispute as to the identity of the borrower or hirer or as to the amount of the debt, it is for the firm (and not the customer) to establish, as the case may be, that the customer is the correct person in relation to the debt or that the amount is the correct amount owed under the agreement.”
I do not owe this money. You have failed to produce any evidence that I do. If you do not cease to contact me about this debt I shall be complaining to the Ombudsman.
[Please also delete the incorrect entries from my credit records.]
Your name
I have looked at one reader’s case where the debt collector was sending very misleading letters here: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”.
Going to the Ombudsman – which Ombudsman?
If the debt collector ignores this second letter, then I suggest you complain to the relevant Ombudsman after 8 weeks. During this time, make sure you keep a record of any more demands from the debt collector – by phone, text, email or letter.
This will be the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) if the debt appears to be a loan, credit card, catalogue or an overdraft. How to send FOS your complaint is described here.
For other types of debt (energy bills? mobile phones? etc) there are different Ombudsman. Sometimes one will be mentioned on the letter you have received. If not, phone National Debtline and ask who they think you should complain to.
How to ask for a payday loan refund
FAQs on statute barred debt
Misleading & aggressive debt collection
Kenneth T says
Hi,
A person took out multiple phone contracts in my name, without my consent. I have contacted the providers but they state that because I know the person, it is not there issue. I have been to the police and they have said it isn’t a criminal issue. Whilst the person used my name and dob plus an old address; they didn’t use my bank details and I didn’t sign any contracts. This happened three years ago and I have consigned myself to waiting the 6 years; is it advisable to send a prove it letter to theM. What recourse do I have as the signature isn’t mine and the bank details are not mine either but as stated I know the person but they did not live with me or use my most current address?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have a crime reference number from the police?
if not, then report the person now to Action Fraud: https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/reporting-fraud-and-cyber-crime
Then when you have done that, don’t send a Prove it letter, send the them a complaint saying you have explained this is identity theft, you never took out these contracts, you never received the phones, you bank account was not used, you have reported the person you think did this to the police/Action Fraud and the reference number is xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Ask them to delete the credit records from your file.
C D says
Hello, I have submitted a prove it letter to Cabot, and they have responded to say that it is reasonable to assume that I received correspondence to my address as they are aware of another loan that was taken out around the same time, and that account I have paid in full. It states they have been unable to obtain the agreement, but based on their findings they believe I owe this money.
They have also offered my 50% reduction in the amount of money owed ! It sounds to me like they have no proof at all that this debt was mine and that I should pursue with the second letter.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt was this? How old? is it currently showing on your credit record?
CD says
Hi, this does not show on my credit file.
It looks like it is for a vehicle purchase which was opened in 2006. It says the account remained open for 4 years and 3 months and a default was registered in Sept 2010. Payments were made up until Aug 2015. The account was placed with MCS in August 2017 who contacted me, and I asked them to provide proof of debt as I do not recognise Santander as someone I ever owed any money to. I never heard anything from MCS, but apparently they were unable to provide proof of debt from Santander so passed it to Cabot, who contacted me last month. Cabot say they have received an authorisation form from Santander regarding the sale of the account, on which it details “the whereabouts of the vehicle” as “presumed with cus”. Cabot then state that although they have been unable to obtain the agreement based on this document they believe the loan was for a vehicle and that I am responsible to pay the debt.
They have offered me 50% discount, however, I do not recognise ever having any agreements in place with Santander, during this time or any other time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you reply that to the best of your knowledge you have never had car finance from Santander. If you don’t think you had car fiance from anyone which you defaulted on in 2010 you could add that too. Say you consider the alleged debt is unenforceable unless they can produce the CCA agreement for the loan and you will not be making any payment to the debt until they can do this as this will prove if the debt is yours.
CD says
Hi Sara,
I have now had confirmation in writing from Cabot that this debt is uneforceable,
“Whilst the debt is currently unenforceable, the balance is still outstanding. To be very clear, the balance remains due and payable and we would request that you enter into correspondence with us regarding a suitable repayment arrangement. I would also refer your attention to CONC 13.1.6 which sets out the guidance by the Financial Conduct Authority relevant to these circumstances”
So it appears whilst they agree they are unable to enforce the debt they still want me to pay it. I have had a couple of letters requesting payment since they advised it was unenforceable, and also Resolve have contacted me asking me to contact Cabot.
Should I just ignore their letters in the hope that they will go away, or should I report them to the Obudsman ?
R H says
I left Lloyds Bank in 2016 and they claimed i was overpaid my salary by £600. So they sent Drydensfairfax to reclaim the amount. I set up a £40 per month payment plan to pay this back and Drydensfairfax are regulated by the FCA. I had a letter stating I was owed about £1k from my Lloyds pension but most of this was taken without my permission to pay back the £600 and the repayments stopped. I recently gave evidence that they underpaid me by one day as Lloyds had the wrong leaving date. So if the debt they chased me for was wrong because the leaving date was wrong and broke a repayment agreement, am I due any compensation and is it worth complaining?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Where did you give evidence?
R H says
Can I have my full name removed sorry and put as R H. I sent evidence to Lloyds HR – had to raise a DSAR request to show dates of last emails sent to prove my last working date. This has been resolved now and Lloyds HR will refund me £70 for underpaying me. So therefore the original debt requested by drydensfairfax initially should’ve been lower by £70. Do I have any rights and is it worth taking it to the ombudsman for any compensation
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So Lloyds are giving you the £70. I’m not sure you have lost any more money because if the error? You could go to your local Citizens Advice and ask. Thus isn’t a debt that would beckvered by the Financial Ombudsman.
Yas says
I keep getting penalty charge debts under a name that does not live here. The debt company asked id I ever knew this person I said 13 years ago was last time I saw him they said they will pursue the debt under my address the debts have accumulated to over £1000 and I am so stressed out. Please help sgould I send a prove it letter ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, the debts are not yours.
If you ever have a bailiff turn up, tell them to go away, the person has not lived there for 13 years and you have no idea where he is.
Gill says
My partners ex wife took out a loan in his name unbeknown to him she applied online in his name and assume she ticked a box for the signature.
The money went in her account and she paid the first 2 years of the loan until they separated then she said she can’t afford it. He have tried to say he never took out this loan over several phone calls to the bank.
He heard nothing for months then gets a statement with added interest at our new address which was a shock as he assumed after several months she had paid and took responsibility.
He contacted the bank again and is waiting for a response what else can he do as this is fraud?
He has asked for the loan agreement which they haven’t sent, should he send a prove it letter?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
He can report this to the police as fraud see https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/reporting-fraud-and-cyber-crime and then tell the lender the crime reference number.
Frustrated says
Good luck!
Several years’ ago, a family member took out multiple loans etc in my name whilst I was overseas.
First I knew of it was when I got back.
I had the person arrested and it went to court.
The person pleaded guilty and got sentenced BUT the banks STILL wouldn’t repay me!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you send the banks a formal complaint? Did you take this to the Ombudsman?
Frustrated says
Tried everything. Got nowhere.
Ombudsman couldn’t help as I live on IoM and they don’t cover here.
Left me over £10K out of pocket and with one less family member.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah, Isle of Man – that’s very unusual, normally I would have expected the Ombudsman to be able to resolve that, so hopefully Gill would not have that sort of problem.
SteveD says
Hi there.
We received a debt collection letter for several thousand pounds which we do not owe last month. As advised on here we sent the Prove It Letter. They have now replied with the following…..
“I can confirm that due to Data Protection Regulations before we provide any further information on this account we need to ensure that we have contacted the correct person. As we have been provided with your address as a possible forwarding address for the person we are attempting to contact we need you to confirm your previous address and date of birth. We can then provide you with further information we hold on the account. If your previous address does not match the address that our client provided then we will know that incorrect information has been provided and we will amend our records. You will then receive no further communication from us with regards to this matter. A hold has been placed on the account until 2 September 2020 to await your response. After this date the account will revert to normal collection activity.”
I’m loathed to give a company I’d never heard until last week personal information. My feeling is to send the COMPLAINT letter, but any advice would be appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have they said what sort of debt this is and who the original creditor was? Who is the debt collector?
SteveD says
They haven’t said what sort of debt it is, only that it is to Tesco Bank. The debt collector is Westcot Credit Services.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you ever had an account, loan or credit card from Tesco? If the answer is no, I suggest you tell them that and you will not be providing any further information unless they produce some evidence that you owe this money.
If you have had an account with Tesco, I suggest the simple thing to do is to give your details.
SteveD says
There was a loan over 12 years ago, but that was paid off and closed at the time. That’s why I thought the Complaint letter was worth sending. Do you think that would be an appropriate way to go?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, I think you should give them your details and try to settle it that way.
David Johnson says
Hi I have had water bills and unpaid council tax owed at an address in manchester when I have lived in london all my life.
I’ve spoken with Salford city council who said they would suspend the process and hopefully I wont hear anything after 30 days, I also told them that I was recording the phone call and they had 30 days to remove my details otherwise I would charge £50 for each subsequent letter relating to that debt.
I had the address that was in question in manchester linked to my credit file and despite my name being David Johnson which is the person they are chasing, they are after a David “James” Johnson and my middle name is not James.
I’ve managed to successfully get TRANSUNION to finally remove the manchester address from my credit file and yet 30 days after speaking with Salford city council I then received 4 letters to David James Johnson in regards to the debt but all having 4 very different amounts.
I am livid about this as its putting a lot of stress on my mum for the fear of bailiffs turning up at our doorstep. How do I go about recovering the £200 that I told them I would charge £50 per letter that I originally told them I would charge if they didn’t remove my details after 30 days and how do I get them to stop sending letters because the address is no longer linked to my credit file
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you checked to see if the address is linked on Experian and Equifax?
Are these letters from the Council or from a bailiff?
David Johnson says
I was using credit karma to check my credit score and yes the address was linked.
I had to make an appeal to TRANSUNION to contest it and was successful in my appeal so now the address has been removed from my credit file.
The letters are from equita, when I 1st got in contact with them back in July they told me that salford city council was their client and I would need to get in touch with them. When I did get in contact with salford city council they told me that they would suspend it for 30 days and that hopefully it should be the end of it. So when i said because they had the wrong person they had 30 days to remove my details otherwise I would charge 50 per subsequent letter it was almost like they took it as a challenge by sending me 4 at once
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There are three different credit reference agencies in Britain who each maintain a credit file for you. They don’t talk to each other. So you also need to check your Experian and Equifax reports ( see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how) to see if the Salford address is on there and get it removed if it is.
I suggest you send Salford a complaint. Use their online form. This page https://www.salford.gov.uk/your-council/have-your-say/complaints/complaints-procedure/ Has the link and describes how the 2 stage complaints procedure works.
Tell Equita that you are the wrong person and you have sent Salford a formal complaint.
Realistically your aim at the moment should be to get this to stop rather than to try to get any money back. You have been sent 4 letters because of incompetence, not as a challenge.
David Johnson says
Thanks Sara I’ll fill in the complaint forms and keep you updated with any progress/responses.
To be fair my priority is to get them to stop but I got to admit that I get so angry with these kind of companies that harass and threaten innocent people that some of them need to get stung.
Quick question, when I spoke to Salford back in July they said the case had already gone to court and won in their favour, if I got the address removed from my credit file would the ccj or whatever I got as a result of this going to court stay on my credit file and is there a way of getting this removed as well
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I understand your pain.
They will have got a “liability order” from a magistrates court, not a CCJ from a county court. A liability order will not show on your credit record.
Scott R says
Hi, I’ve received a letter from Lowell relating to a Shop Direct account I had which defaulted on 28/10/2014 (amount £1500), which I assume means that this default will ‘drop off’ my credit file on 29/10/2020 (6 weeks time from writing). The debt is mine, I haven’t acknowledged it since the default date. Lowell’s letter states that they are offering me a chance to agree to a payment plan before they “proceed with their assessment to decide whether to take legal action”. I was considering sending them a Prove-it letter, is this worthwhile? Do they have to respond within a certain amount of time? Or will they just go ahead with court action without responding to me?
I am more than likely going to contact them to agree a payment plan before they go to court, however will this mean the default will stay on my credit file for another 6 years when it is so close to being removed?
Any help is much appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you had a letter which looks like the one mentioned in here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/?
Defaulted on… is this the default date which shows on your credit records?
ffionpearl says
STOP!! Dont contact them in writing! Not paid/acknowlgd since default=classic nrly statute barred! but Lowell should send a Debt Pre Action letter & give you time to respond before they issue a claim. If they have not done this, then you have time to stall them past the 28 Oct when they will be out of time. I’m assuming youve not had the pre-action btw, from the the Lowell letter you describe.. Go& see a debt adviser. Citizens Advice or Nat Debtline. That way when you get the pre action letter (the link Sara put in her reply) you can say you need more time to have an appointment as seeking debt advice is valid. Oh I know some may think that you said you owe it, so you should pay it, but Lowell have taken it right up to the edge time-wise here & bought th debt for pennies. Can you afford to pay? Can you afford a CCJ on your file? (This is what would happen btw not another default). If you feel the need to talk to them then phone them (dont write). Post is 1 mth old so whatever occured, take debt advice. Posts like this are great for the odd tip but only by getting full advice can you make the best of the situation.
Adam says
Hi, I am being chased by Halifax and debt collection agency for a mortgage shortfall dating back to May 2008 when my home was repossessed. The amount in question is £50k. The demand letters never state whether the creditors took out a CCJ against me or not.
I understand that if there was no CCJ taken against the debtor (me), the mortgage shortfall becomes statute barred and unenforceable in 12 years but if a CCJ was obtained then it is ALWAYS enforceable, i.e. if i were to purchase a house now or 10 years down the line, they can technically come after me any time and place a charging order on my property so the sword will always hang over my head.
1) is that true? and
2) how do i find out if Halifax ever took out a CCJ against me for this shortfall? (i have not contacted them or debt collection agencies since the repossession in 2008 and do not want to contact them in case i open up a jar of worms)…I would really like to buy a house next year with the little money i have saved but if the house is going to have a charging order placed against it, then no point…PLEASE ADVISE!
Many Thanks in advance..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I will say what I always say in this sort of situation in case other people read it – it is a great pity you didn’t go bankrupt in 2008. If you had This debt would have been wiped out and you wouldn’t now be having this sort of worry. I know that doesn’t help you at all.
Have you looked at your credit records with all three credit reference agencies? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this.
Have you looked on Trust Online to send if any debt collector has taken out a CCJ using your old address or your current address as see https://debtcamel.co.uk/do-you-have-ccjs/?
These two sets of checks will only see CCJs taken in the last 6 years. There coukd have been one before 6 years which will not show. CCJs never become statute barred but after 6 years a creditor has to go back to court to get permission to enforce them and this is very rarely given.
Adam says
Hi Sara,
Thankyou so much for your reply. Sorry I was on a vacation in a remote area where there was no internet so replying now.
I checked all 3 CR agencies but since its been well over 6 years, there is no record of any old CCJ or arrears so history is looking squeaky clean BUT still I do not know whether Halifax took out a CCJ against my name. And I used trustonline site last year and nothing was there as they also only hold data past 6 years.
1) you stated that the creditor/Halifax would need to go back to court again (since this has been well over the 6 year mark – its dating back to 2008) to have the CCJ enforced and its rarely given. Do you know under what circumstances is the enforcement after 6 years granted? I mean, I did not have any assets all this time, perhaps that’s the reason they could argue that now I have a house??
2) If I declare bankruptcy now, what effects will that have on my life in general? And when would I be able to buy the house in future after declaring bankruptcy?
Thanks in advance for all the advice and help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk about your sitution and these letters to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They can talk about when very old CCJs can be enforced – it’s not just because you have some money.
if you go bankrupt now, you would lose all your savings and could not but a house for another 6 years. This should be a last resport.
You could send Halifax a Subject Access request asking for a copy of all the personal information they have about you. I don’t think that would resent the 12 year statute barred clock but National Debtline can talk about this too.
Adam says
I cannot thank you enough for your advice Sara. Really appreciate all the assistance.
Jess says
I helped set up my parents energy account. The email address was mine the account was their name. My father gave permission to discuss the account with me as Id been corresponding via email on his behalf. The account is In large arrears mainly after my father spent 12mnths trying to have meters fitted and no bills being sent. It’s now over 6k. They keep sending me letters stating I’m liable. Apparently my father added me as a account holder (I asked for evidence and never get a reply) I know it was just to discuss emails as I was there at the time and spoke to them on the phone.
I’ve signed no guarentor agreement and never even lived at the address
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send the energy firm a complaint saying this and that you want to be removed from the account. Also get your father to say the same.
What is the rest of your father’s finances position?
Jess says
Both parents have bad financial situations
Energy
Water
Council tax etc
He has told them already that I’m not liable yet I constantly get the letters
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you get him to put in a formal compaiont in writing? And you do the same.
Also can you get your parents to take debt advice about there options as they have a lot of priority debts there, It’s kind of you to help but I think it would help them to talk to an expert. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/more-information/where-to-get-help/ for good places to get debt advice.
Jess says
Thanks they have actually had an open complaint with the energy ombudsman because when the joined they were told meters would be put in as they were aware they’d end up In debt if not that was in Oct and two years later they were eventually fitted. Had numerous appointments no one turned up to etc. But the energy ombudsman said they acted accordingly. In that complaint it was mentioned about my name being added without consent but it was mentioned In the final closing decision so we never knew where to go form there
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Start again with a new complaint about your name being on there. you don’t live there. you have no legal liability for that debt.
Are your parents renting or do they own the house?
Jess says
it’s a housing association house. So rented from them.
I have sent an email to the energy company stating everything and also threatened to seek legal advise should they continue to harass me over a debt that isn’t mine.
I’m awaiting a response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good – please encourage your parents to take debt advice. Either a Debt Relief Order or bankruptcy may be suitable for them – in a HA property either would give them a clean start from their current mess and hopefully allow them to stay on top of their future bills.
Pen says
Hello,
Lowell have been chasing me for a debt of £61.28 that they claim that I owe to EE from 2018, that is now showing as a default on 1 of 3 of my credit files. I didn’t recognise this debt so I sent a Prove It letter, thanks to your website’s template. I received a response detailing their account number, EE’s account number, dates, value, last payment, mobile number, address, service etc. I then recognised this as a mobile dongle account that I had for a few months and then absent-mindedly continued to pay for over a year without using it, and then cancelled. As I recognise the account and have no e-mails or letters from that period to be able to dispute that I had an outstanding debt when cancelling I decided to pay the balance. However, on the same letter I received from Lowell, they also claim that I have a separate debt of £75.40 that they bought from BT. I don’t recognise this debt at all, and all they had in the letter for the BT account was their account number for that debt, the BT reference and the value. I therefore decided to send a Prove It Letter specifically for it and have since received a letter back simply stating ‘We recently responded to your request for information. It’s now important that you get in touch to agree how you’ll repay your outstanding account’. This suggests to me that they have no more details about that debt. How would you advise that I respond? Any advice appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you pay the first one but reply that you do not recognise the BT debt and ask for more details.
B says
Hi there,
I was contacted by my old employer in 2019 who I have not worked for since 2017 saying that I was over paid by £200. I sent a letter back to them advising that any overpayment was their mistake and they need to provide me with proof of the over payment. I was paid hourly and worked different hours every week so I have no idea if they overpaid me. I also received my unused holiday pay after I handed in my notice so the last payslip I got didn’t seem out of the ordinary. They never contacted me again after that but I recently received a letter and have been getting phone calls and text messages from a debt collection agency demanding I pay back what I owe. I haven’t spoken to them yet and I’m not sure if I should send them a prove it letter or just ignore it as isn’t it up to my old employer to provide payslips/shift rotas showing where I was overpaid? Thanks for the advice
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes they should have to show how you were overpaid, as you previously requested. But ignoring a debt collector in this situation isn’t usually a good idea.
I suggest you reply saying that you disputed this debt with your employer last year and they never explained how you were overpaid, so you will not be considering this until you areshown the evidence about the hours you worked and the incorrect hours you were paid for.
If this carries on, I suggest you go to your local Citizens Advice for help with this.
TCC says
Hi,
How long does a company have to prove a debt is yours before FCA guidelines would write it off? I sent a Prove It letter over 60 days ago for a debt that I have never heard of before that is supposedly in my name and have had no correspondence since. I believe I have previously seen in the guidelines that it is a 60 day period however I can no longer see this. Can you guide me or advise me on what I should do next as this is causing me a lot of stress?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think there is a set time.
What sort of debt was this?
TCC says
A cash in hand Provident Loans debt. In the letter they sent me when the dispute was raise it says they have up to 60 days to respond and after that they will make a decision and I have this in writing. What would you advise?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you write to them again asking them to confirm that you were contacted in error and this debt is not yours.
AB90 says
Hi.
Lowell sent a letter recently stating I owed for 2 accounts. I contacted them with a ‘proof of debt’ letter, and they provided 2 other accounts.
They’ve sent out an itemised bill for very.co.uk, and an credit agreement that’s not signed nor dated from Grattan PLC with no itemised bill, just saying I owe xxx amount. But I never heard of or used these companies for anything. So I’ve asked for additional information, because what they’ve provided seems like it’s lacking (regardless of what they’ve said).
I’m just unsure what to do next. I’ve read that I should report these accounts to action fraud and state that to Lowell? And that the debts are identity theft or fraudulent.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to Lowell and say that you have never shopped using Very or Grattan. Ask Lowell to produce the CCA agreements for the two alleged debts.
If they show on your credit record – have you checked? – then ask lowell to delete the records as they are not yours.
Thomas says
Hi,
Ask Lowell for proof of a debt I allegedly have with Three mobile.
They simply sent back a bill advising of the early termination fee and the total outstanding. Obviously this is not proof of the debt.
How should I proceed?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you ever have 3 Mobile? if not, reply saying that you never had one.
Did you have 3 mobile but are sure you paid it all off?
Did you terminate early and were not aware there was a early termination fee?
Thomas says
Hi Sara,
I currently have a Three mobile and have done for many years, I recently upgraded.
I think their implication is that this is another contract I had taken out, of which I have no recollection.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you ask Three if you ever defaulted on a contract with them. If Three say No, tell Lowell that.
Greg says
Hi.
My girlfriend has debt with Lowell. I gave her 100 pounds a month to pay it off. 13 months later the debt is paid.
A letter arrives to say the CCJ is settled, along with three other letters each one for an amount with different creditor. 3 letters Total amounts to around 1200 pounds
The letters say annual statement at the top. At the top right it says original credit agreement date 2014 on two letters and one letter is 2015.
Unsure why they have started to chase these now and send letters once the original debt was settled. Should 2 of these be statute barred?
Its very underhand to hold back these letters until the debt was settled and then fish for more debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unsure why they have started to chase these now and send letters once the original debt was settled
These are separate debts, not related to the CCJ.
I assume she agrees she owes the money? What sort of debts were these, credit cards, catalogues, loans, mobile etc?
When did she last make payments to these debts?
Does she have other unpaid debts with other debt collectors?
Greg says
Hi and thanks for the reply.
She has never paid or acknowledged the debts. Other than that I cant comment. :)
In all honesty these letter have come from out of the blue, would of been happy to pay them last year but almost as if the debt collection agency fished for them as soon as the ccj was cleared.
Now with us in an position where I could be out of work after Christmas due to C19 I’d like to advise her claim statute barred if I can on the two from 2014
Or possibly offer ten percent but unsure of the correct template letter to use…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debts were these – this makes a difference to her options
Greg says
2 catalogues and 1 credit card.
Actually had three more letters today, the credit card one is different writing / format to the two catalogue ones.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so the 2015 debt cannot be statute barred (unless she is in Scotland???)
The 2014 debts it’s pretty marginal, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/. But unless she has received Default Notices (these are not the same as defaults on her credit record) it can be hard to be sure they are astatute barred. I suggest she talks to National Debtline about these.
As the debts are credit cards and catalogues, one possibility is to ask Lowell to produce the CCA agreement for the debt, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ for how to do this and why.
If you don’t want to do this now, you MUST do it if she is sent Letter Before Action/Claim, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/. It is MUCH easier to do this before, rather than try to defend a case in court.
Greg says
Hi Sara and thanks for the advice.
No, we are not in Scoltand, and the amount from 2015 is only 115 pounds (ish) so I can afford to pay that one off. (Thats the credit card)
It is interesting that the letter for the credit card is worded as ‘outstanding account’ she is a ‘valued customer’ who is already making payments for another account.
The two catalogue ones are more verbose, almost as if they are the new owners of them.
So basically, as I understand it, the 6 years needs to be from the point that shes stopped paying which then caused the creditor to (for example) to pass the debt on to a debt collector. So at that point the DCA would need to be able to prove when collection proceedings started… and if its within 6 years then its not statute barred. Would I be correct in my thinking?
Does requesting a CCA admit that the amount is owed and so will reset the statute barred timer?
How/if/when could I make an offer of 10%? Is this not an option at the moment.
Thank you for your help and assistance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
as I understand it, the 6 years needs to be from the point that shes stopped paying which then caused the creditor to (for example) to pass the debt on to a debt collector.
NO, passing a debt to a debt collector has NOTHING to do with a debt becoming statute barred.
A debt can be statute barred that has never been passed to a debt collector.
And debts passed to a debt collector may never become statute barred eg if token payments continue to be made.
Read that link and talk to National Debtline about these debts.
Does requesting a CCA admit that the amount is owed and so will reset the statute barred timer?
That depends on how it is worded, but usually it will, yes.
You can make a 10% offer at any point. That definitely WILL reset the statute barred clock.
Greg says
Thanks Sarah, Feel free to email me any way I can contribute to you for your efforts today.
Donating to your chosen charity or buying you a drink would be my pleasure.
Please finally could you explain this to me from your previous post? It may help others in a similar situation.
What would be the definition of a default notice? A letter (or many letters) sent over a period of time, and how can this affect the outcome?
Surely a default on the credit record and default notice are the same thing?
————–
But unless she has received Default Notices (these are not the same as defaults on her credit record) it can be hard to be sure they are astatute barred. I suggest she talks to National Debtline about these.
————–
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A small donation to your local Citizens Advice would be good.
A Default Notice is a formal notice under the Consumer Credit Act. This is an accurate summary: https://www.advicescotland.com/default-notices-and-termination/
Luke says
hi Sara
I wondered if you could help me. I recieved a letter last year from lowell in regards to a catalogue loan from 2015.
I knew I had paid this loan off in full at the time so naturally requested a prood of debt. They sent me the standard terms of conditions that shopdirect have as well as a statement showing my payment dates and amount which totalled the amount borrowed but also added interest and charges which they say i owed. I replied stating that the statement shows I have paid the full amount and requested why they have added charges and interest.
I never heard back from Lowell to the beginning of this year demanding the debt so i start the process again and again received the same statement and another letter from requesting where the charges and interest has come from.
6 months later and 2 further recorded delivered emails requesting the same information, I was contact by a new debt recovery agency demanding the debt again. I have started the same process again.
How do i go about stopping these demands coming through, to my understanding it would become barred next year anyways but Im worried if i dont get it sorted they will sell the debt again and I will have to go through the process again. Sometimes I feel they are trying to get the amount out of my through envelopes and stamps!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I was contact by a new debt recovery agency demanding the debt again. I have started the same process again.
So not Lowell?
As whatever you did before worked, you could do that again but this time ask them to confirm in writing that you do not owe money and that they will not sell the debt on.
Alain says
Hi Sara,
I responded recently to a letter of claim from Lowell asking for 220 GBP. They claim I have a debt with Vodafone yet I never opened an account with Vodafone, I contacted Vodafone and they did confirm there is an account under my name. So I reported it to Action Fraud and got a crime reference number which I provided to Vodafone and wrote back to Lowell provided them with the crime reference number and requested from them a copy of agreement to check any signature. They responded with some information such as the amount due, address, a presumed phone number, a previous address, and approximate date when Vodafone reported the default to Credit Reference Agencies, although I checked my credit report and there is nothing showing up. So now Lowell is asking to provide them with supporting documents related to this crime otherwise they remain satisfied I am liable to this debt, but obviously I do not have a proof since I reported this according to what they claim. So since they failed to provide a copy of the agreement to check signature, shall I respond with the complaint template or is there another way to respond ?? Appreciate your help Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what documents do Lowell want?
Alain says
They ask to contact them and provide them with any further information I may have including any supporting documents related to the reported Identity theft crime. Police won’t follow up on investigation since it’s not classified as police recorded crime according to their e-mail confirmation. Any idea ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you sent Vodafone a formal complaint telling them it is identity theft? If you have, supply those details to Lowell.
Were you living at the relevant address when the contract was taken out? If you weren’t, you can supply proof that you lived somewhere else.
Jim says
I forgot to tax my motor vehicle for approx 6weeks last year due to moving house and all reminders being sent to the old address even though the dvla has all my updated information.
I got a letter from PastDue solutions demanding I paid £80 that I owed them. I sent a prove it letter as I was unaware of ever having such a debt and they have replied stating that due to data protection they cannot divulge any information about the debt until I provide my previous address. And they will put a ‘hold’ on my account for 28days to give me time to reply.
Is it worth now sending a complaint letter? My understanding is that any debt I had was purchased by this company and therefore paid in full, and I do not need to pay these as I have no debt with themselves. I will not be giving them any money, they can take me to court if they like but I would prefer to get them off my back… £80 fine for £15 worth or road tax…. next joke.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My understanding is that any debt I had was purchased by this company and therefore paid in full, and I do not need to pay these as I have no debt with themselves.
That is completely wrong.
When they bought your debt, they bought the rights of the creditor. The debt is not settled by this purchase.
Matt says
Hi. I’ve been recieving letters from Lowells saying i owe them money due to a Paypal Credit account being opened in 2018. I contacted Paypal about the issue with the agreement number on the Lowells letter. They said that there is no such agreement in my account with that number. (I have photo evidence of this). I then followed your advice above asking them to prove the debt. They have responded today via mail with these simple bulletpoints.
– Agreement start date: 12th November 2018
– Application Address: (my old address which i left in 2013)
– Last Purchase 1: UBER BV
– Last Purchase 2: UBER BV
– Last Purchase 3: UBER BV
– Application Email: mattg*******@gmail.com
They have also put some kind of account summary on the back of the letter which makes no sense atall.
Firstly, that isn’t my email address nor have i ever been affiliated with it.
These transactions are completely fraudulent and have not been made by myself nor do i have a Paypal credit account. The letter i’ve recieved still gives me no proof that it belongs to me. They said that they’ve placed my account on hold for 30 days. I’ve reported the case to Action Fraud.
Please can you advise me on the next steps? Do i contact Lowell and dispute it? Another letter? Any advice would be great. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell Lowell all this, including the reference number you will have been given by Action fraud.
You may also want to follow the steps in this article as it looks like identity theft: https://debtcamel.co.uk/loans-using-your-name-stop-identity-theft/
Matt says
Thanks for the quick reply. How do you suggest that i mention this to Lowell? Letter or phone? Any advice if they’re no help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
my personal preference would be email, then phone. Stamps cost you money and you can never be sure the letter has arrived!
Dildar says
Hi, I got tricky situation. I received letter from Lowell portfolio ltd on November 2011 regarding EON outstanding balance from 02/01/2013 to 31/03/2014. First letter of my name was wrong and I am pretty sure I was not in this property at that particular period. I paid in full when I received letter thinking it should not come on my credit file. But it appears. My question is are they allowed to sent letters after this long period? And can I ask for prove now after I have paid? What can I do in this case?
Weatherman says
Hi Dildar
I’m not sure you’ve got the dates right there. How could you have got a letter in 2011 for a debt from 2013/14?
Anyway, it seems like EON and/or Lowell marked your debt as defaulted at some point. Even though you then paid off the debt in full, the default notice stays on your credit report until six years after it was entered. It should be marked as ‘settled’, because you paid in full.
After a certain amount of time debts can become ‘statute-barred’ (but this clock can reset if, for example, you pay part of the debt). This just means that the creditor wouldn’t be able to get a court judgement against you – they can still send you letters asking you to pay.
Now that you’ve paid the debt, I don’t know of any way you could recover it. It’s never a good idea to repay a debt if you don’t think you owe it – you should always check and if you didn’t owe it, dispute it there and then.
Mandy says
In 2011 I had breast cancer and in 2012 I had 9 creditors asking for payments. By 2014 I had sorted out payment plans but one particular creditor kept saying I had missed payments. From 2012 to 2015 the debt was passed from Idem to moorcroft to Wilkinson and chapman and shoosmith and then to Arrow Global. Aparently paid to Paragon and. Aparently the debt was brought by Britanica recoveries and at that time asked all these companies to ask for the money. Each time I disputed it as they lost payments and the balance did not add up. In 2015 I stopped paying and in 2016 sent a CCA request and did not receive anything. In Nov 2020 I received a letter from Capquest asking for money and I told them about the CCA request. In Dec they sent me an agreement with no ts and cs so I requested that telling them the debt is unenforceable. They sent me a statement of account that contradicts what i was given in the past and is not the same account number they are pursuing. I have not aknowledged the debt or made any payments since April 2015 so it will be statue barred then. What is my next step please as I am stuck now if they do send the ts and cs. The statement of account does not have any detail of who payments were made to and wrong acc number. Thank you
Weatherman says
Hi Mandy
Firstly, if they can’t produce the CCA agreement, they can’t enforce the debt in the court. A statement of account won’t cut it. It’s not impossible that they’ll find it, but it’s really unlikely given the previous creditor couldn’t find it. The fact that they’re sending you statements of account instead suggests to me that they’ve no idea where the CCA agreement is. If it does turn up before the debt becomes statute-barred, take a look here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#What_should_you_do_when_the_CCA_agreement_is_found
Secondly, I’m a bit concerned about this mysterious statement of account with a separate number. Is this in your name, and is it a debt that you agree you owe? If it seems to be in your name but you don’t think you owe it, you should dispute this with Capquest and get it sorted now.
Mandy says
Thank you so much, I will see what they come back with in regards to the rest of the cca agreement. And The statement of account is not correct so will also complain about that . Thank you so much. I will let you know what happens.
Gia says
Cabot bought an old overdraft of mine mid 2015. I have not made a payment since.
I did tell them in 2017 to contact my DMP provider which they never did
I did an SAR this month and they have provided their account notes but no documentation from the original lender
If they have no documentation from the bank is it enforceable?
Thank you for your help !
Weatherman says
Hi Gia
Overdrafts are an exception to the CCA agreement rules – you don’t have the right to request a copy of the CCA agreement, so a failure to produce one doesn’t make it unenforceable.
Was 2015 the last payment you made towards the debt? Or was that earlier?
And when was the last time you contacted Cabot in writing about the debt? 2017? Did you acknowledge the debt was yours in writing at this point?
The question here is when the debt will be statute-barred, which is six years from the last time you made a payment towards your debt, or made written acknowledgement of it. Until then, Cabot could apply for a CCJ against you.
G says
Thank you so much for getting back to me. I’ve checked the SAR I did and the last payment was mid 2015. I have not acknowledged it in writing or paid since. It defaulted back in 2013. I would rather not pay them to be honest as they are sharks and I was paying it until it was sold. With your advice and reading here I’ve totally changed my financial life which is amazing. This is one of 2 with Cabot. The other one is unenforceable, but it’s this old overdraft I’m trying to work out how to proceed with !
Thank you for your help 🙂
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As Weatherman says, a debt collector does not have to produce a CCA agreement for an overdraft.
If you last made a payment in mid 2015, this debt cannot be statute barred at the moment.
And it is not easy to tell when an overdraft debt does beacome statute barred – it is not right after the last payment as there are no contractual payments for an overdrasft to be missed. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about when this may be statute barred.
G says
Thank you that’s appreciated !
Armi jon says
hi
i received a letter from LRC legal recoveries as i have debt by Utilita Energy in 2016 to 2018 and the amount due to pay £2900
i left that property in 2018 and today Jan 2021 i received this letter and i am sure on that property there we use top up meters and i never received any bill from utilita when i lived there i dont know who made utilita account on my name and how they knows my present address and i am damn sure they dont have my mobile number , email and date of birth etc or bank account number because they didnt contact me via phne or email even not a single bill
can you please advise what i need to do as i sm really in tension
regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Several points.
All adults living in a property are jointly and severally liable for energy bills. The fact you don’t think the company knows your email address, date of birth etc isn’t relevant. They don’t need this information to go to court for a CCJ.
It would be unusual for a bill that large to accumulate if there was a top up meter. Do you have your tenancy agreement? Who else lived with you at the time – can you ask them?
See https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/who-contact-if-its-difficult-paying-energy-bills/energy-back-billing-guide-your-rights for information about “back billing” which may be relevant here.
I suggest you talk to your local Citizens Advice about this debt and possible back billing.
It may also be helpful to ask Utilita for a copy of all your personal information, known as a Subject Access Request or SAR. See https://utilita.co.uk/downloads/terms/privacy-statement.pdf. This may turn up what was billed and when.
Armi Jon says
hi there
thanks for reply
Today i found 3 emails from utilita i received in 2016 and they are saying ( THANKS TO JOIN US AND OUR ENGINEER WILL COME TO CHANGE THE METERS WITHIN 30 DAYS AND IF YOU AGREE THAN REPLY )
than i replied them on same date when i receive email from them ( i replied , Can you please cancel this contract or anything else what you said in email as i did not sign or apply any thing with you regards )
i still have this email on my sent items
the house agreement was on my name and i was responsible to top up for gas & electricity even we lived only 4 peoples including me and i don’t have that agreement at this time , i tried to contact the property agent but no response because they left the office last year and not doing any property business.
now shall i write a letter to debt agency LRC to provide me a Prove it letter ?
also £2900 bill was just for 18 month as they mentioned on letter and at my present property i am paying £68 a month including gas and electricity from last 2 years .
thanks for your advise and i will call to citizen bureau tomorrow morning
and also is it possible that they can come to my door for collection as they sent me 1st letter on 15th of this month and ask me to contact till 28th of January or when they can go to court
i am asking these information because i have just checked and my local citizen bureau is closed because of corona pandemic and how much time i have to solve this all issue ?
regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t have to sign a contract with a gas/electric supplier for one to exist – it is there because you are using the energy. So you can’t cancel a contract with a gas/electric supplier you can only switch to a new supplier.
You had a contract with Utilita as they were the supplier when you moved in and you didn’t change that. A Prove It letter is not going to help here.
Your local Citizens Advice should be accessible by phone.
Armi Jon says
hi there
This is my last message just need a bit more help
the thing is i still remember i was using top up key for gas and electricity and i visit to that property today morning and there is still top up meter for gas and the lady was not sure about electricity one .
and i found some letter from British gas belong to that address there is they saying we are coming to check gas meter and boiler ..and i know that top up meter from British gas .
and also what is the procedure of debt collectors what they do next as they sent me just 1st letter and i talked to citizen bureau and they are saying they will contact with me within a week .so what shall i do to gain some more time from debt collectors
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell the debt collector you dispute the debt and you are taking debt advice, ask them to put a hold on the account for a month.
Loouise says
Hi – I paid a debt of that I was taken to court for by TM legal and satisfied the debt in 2019. The creditor was lending stream.
Today I got an email from them and spoke to clarify that I still owe this debt.
Funnily they also agreed in a final response on a complaint regarding the same debt.
How do I escalate this? I have all the proof but totally unacceptable from lending stream.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Today I got an email from them and spoke to clarify that I still owe this debt.
from LS? or from TM?
why do they say you owe it if you have paid the CCJ?
Funnily they also agreed in a final response on a complaint regarding the same debt.
Was this LS or TM? what was the complaint and what was the reply?
Louise says
Thanks for response.
The monies owed came from lending stream today, stating I owe the same amount with the account reference that was sold to TK legal 5 years ago.
I have several letters / emails from TM legal confirming the account is paid and settled 2 years ago.
It was affordability complaint to lending stream that they agreed to and refunded some interest and to remove all negatives from my credit and all accounts are closed. Also I have this confirmation.
So essentially I am being chased for a debt that was paid and acknowledged through courts and so on.
My query is this should this even be able to happen?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Strange case!
You have sent LS a complaint about this? If they reject it, send it to the Financial Ombudsman with the details.
Louise says
I think I will complain. I will let you know how this came about….. clearly not a usual thing.
Thanks
Tom says
Dear Sara and all,
I have recently received correspondence from PRA Group regarding 2 debts at which time I have spoken with PRA Group and they themselves say the debt is unenforceable but that I am legally entitled to repay the funds. They say that the reason for the debt being unenforceable is that they have not received all of the required paperwork from the original lender to make it enforceable. The debts are currently showing on my credit report under the name of the original lenders (Bank of Scotland and Lloyds).
Please can you advise on what to do in this situation?
I was thinking that I would send a ‘Prove It Letter’ to PRA Group. However, what happens then? If, as expected they are not forthcoming with the documents, am I able to ask Lloyds and Bank of Scotland to remove the defaults on my credit file?
Thanks,
Tom
Weatherman says
Hi Tom
If they don’t have the CCA, then the debt is unenforceable – meaning they can’t take you to court.
But the debt still exists, so they can still ask you to repay (they just can’t do much if you don’t). And the defaults will still stay on your credit report for six years. The only way the defaults would be removed is if you successfully disputed the debt with the original lender, but you would need to show that the debt was never yours in the first place etc
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As Weatherman says , if they can’t produce the CCA agreement, the debt is unenforceable. They can ask all they want, but you don’t have to pay.
It sounds as though the debts are yours. In which case asking them to Prove it will get nowhere.
What is the default date on the credit records?
Tom says
Hi both,
Thanks for you information.
The debt is approximately 4 and a half years old and has been with several debt companies who have not been able to enforce payment because they have not received the CCA from the original lender. (As a side note, I could not place an affordability claim with these companies and these were two of the very first accounts I had when I started to get myself into this horrid situation, whcih thanksfully, I am no longer in).
In this circumstance, could I send a ‘prove it’ letter and then if they cannot prove it by producing a CCA, which I am certain they cannot do, ask to settle the accounts for a vastly reduced figure? Thus no longer having them chase me for it and allowing the debts to be marked as partially satisfied on my credit report which will be much better than there current default status.
Thanks,
Tom
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can ask for the CCA but they have effectively told you they can’t produce it.
If you want to do this so it is clear, then send them a request for the CCA, see https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/credit-agreements-getting-information-ew/?. don’t send them a prove it letter, be clear what you are asking for and send the 31 that factsheet says.
If they say they can’t produce it, you can offer a low settlement but you cannot make them accept it. If the default date is 4 and a half years ago, it will drop off your records in 18 months anyway, so does this matter much? getting a debt settled will not actually improve your credit score.