Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
Lisa says
The marbles definitely think I paid more interest than what they are saying. Both cards was taken out in 2015 when I had the everyday loan to clear the cards they both had a balance of around 3 grand, I think… I was silly enough to use the cards again abd when I seeked help from stepchange in 2019 the marbles had a balance of £3300 and the aqua was about £5300 but I did transfer a balance which was interest free at the time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can ask Newday to explain how they derived the numbers and ask them to suppl your statements (or the information on them) going back to 2015 as you don’t things the numbers are correct.
Lisa says
Thankyou so much for your advice, I will definitely be contacting them. I also got intouch with the adjudicator aswell to let her know that it doesn’t seem right.
Debbie says
You asked me what date was the adjudicators decision?
He refers to it as an ‘assessment’ 7th March 2024, sent to myself and Barclaycard. I accepted the same day.
B/C to respond by 21st March.
10th April I email adjudicator, for update, he said B/C acknowledge his ‘assessment’ hadn’t provided a full response. Adjudicator had given B/C until 17th April. If no response he will consider Ombudsman for full decision.
29th April – B/C full response and agree with adjudicator.
Adjudicator only uses the term ‘assessment’ so hoping this all makes sense?
Like I’ve said, I’ve never heard from B/C. I have no idea what the figure is or how it was calculated.
24th June, now being told the following, by the adjudicator:
‘I’ll be back in contact once I have an update for you. At this stage, I think it will be likely that I share the information provided by Barclaycard, rather than it coming directly to you from them’
Thank you as always Sara for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so the decision was agreed on 29 April. It has been less than 2 months which annoying and shouldnt happen but it isnt a cause for alarm.
If there is no progress in another few weeks, tell the adjudicator that you want this to go to an Ombudsman to get a Final Decision
Debbie says
Ok Sara, thank you so much for all your help.
I’ve Just checked calendar, when you say ‘a few weeks’ – 21 July is 4 weeks away, would that be a reasonable timeframe to allow?? I didn’t realise that even though, the decision had been ‘agreed’ there would still be a possibility, to ask for the Ombudsman to give a final decision, the adjudicator, gave me the impression, that this was not a possibility? So thank you again Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well 100% shouldn’t be needed. I will be very surprised if this isn’t sorted in 4 weeks
Debbie says
Let’s hope so Sara. I shall keep you posted. I know I always say it, but, I’m so very grateful to you. I can put it out of my mind ….. for the time being.
Dave says
So had a reply back from Halifax. They said they were not willing to look at anything before 2018 due to 6 year limitations and we should have made a complaint within 3 years of this time. They’ve also rejected everything after 2018 saying they said they did check that my wife could afford the overdraft and they believe she could and if she couldn’t then she should ‘cut down on none essential living expenses’
I know we now have to go to the FOS but what realistic chances do we have of winning?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you sent the overdraft complaint to the Ombudsman?
This is for the credit card I assume. Have they told you the dates of the credit limit increases?
is the account still open – if not, when was it closed?
Dave says
No not a credit card. Overdraft. The account is still open but not active (we had a secure loan in the end to pay off all our debts including this overdraft) we haven’t made the complaint yet to the FOS as we only got their letter this morning.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, this is a page for credit cards and you mentioned you also had a credit card so I assumed you had complained about that. You probably should!
FOS makes decisions on how far back it can go. For overdrafts it can always go back 6 years. It will take what it calls “a jurisdiction decision” on going back further. It is alsoways a bit erratic if it chooses to but FOS it at the moment considering whether to adopt a different approach, which if it decides to could really help your case/. So I suggest you send the complaint in now and don’t expect any progress fast.
Catherine says
Hi
I have had an arranged overdraft with Halifax on my debit card for a while now. I am always in it and always have charges every day.
I have managed to pay it off this month and close it completely. They are my current account.
Is it worth raising a complaint about this? I have poor credit and defaults. I have also just successfully won unfair lending against other credit cards and loans with the ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long have you been in your overdraft every day? Have you just manged to clear it with other refunds?
Catherine says
Yes every day, I get paid and I’m back in it constantly. I got a bonus from work so paid it off and closed it.
When the overdraft was opened it was a lower amount. I was in high level of debt and in arrears with another debt. Halifax increased my overdraft to £850. Which I appreciate is minimum but I have had a lot of changes as constantly maxed out on the over drafted and it would regularly go over into an unarranged over draft
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so send in the complaint using the template in the article above. Make the point that you have only been able to clear this with a bonus that you haven’t had before. Also that they should have seen how often you exceeded the overdraft limit and that the charges were making your position worse.
Jen says
Hi Sara,
I put in an affordability complaint with Tescobank. They have replied to say they are investigating and need copies of my bank statements from the time they issued my second credit card. This was in 2017-2018 and I don’t. My complaint refers to the multiple money transfers they kept approving, credit increases on two separate cards from 2018 onwards. They would have seen from my credit record I was using an overdraft more than twice my income, plus 4 credit cards. They have even asked if I am a homeowner as stated and infer I lied on my application which I certainly did not. I am unsure what to do. Should I send them anything or say I don’t have it and wait for rejection/ FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you should be able to get bank statements going back 6 years even from a closed account. Have you asked?
HX says
Hi Jen – this happened to me, I had 2 cards, Tesco asked for bank statements, I provided and within a week I had a response with all interest, charges etc. refunded. TBF, their customer service in this respect was excellent.
Jen says
Hi Sara,
I have them up to June 2018, but Tesco want them from before this period and I don’t have them so I’m not sure what to do. My complaint isn’t so much related to an earlier time period, but the card was opened in 2017 which I presume is why they’re asking even though I made clear my complaint is from May 2018 onwards.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did tesco increase your limits after May 2018?
Jen says
Yes, they did increase my limit after May 2018
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so go back and say you don’t have the earlier banks statements, you do have them from June 18.
Say you think it should have been clear from your first card that you should not be able to sustainably repay the limit they gave you on the second card
Rosie says
Hi there, I’ve had a couple of complaints upheld by the ombudsman such as Santander and Vanquis-does anybody know roughly how long the process takes following the decision? For example, are some companies taking longer to respond than others or is it quite quick?
Thank you in advance!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are these adjudicator decisions? or final decisions from an ombudsman?
Rosie says
These are adjudicator decisions. Sorry, forgot there was another level it could go to! Santander had until today to respond to the adjudicator and haven’t, it’s been 3 weeks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The adjudicator will probably just give them another few weeks…
Rosie says
As an update, the adjudicator gave them another week and Santander still didn’t respond so he has now sent it to the ombudsman. Is this normal for them not to respond to the adjudicator at all?
Have also had my Vanquis complaint upheld which I’m pleased about so hoping they respond!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s pretty common…
HX says
I’ve complained to the FOS about 4 credit cards from Creation for irresponsible lending. For each they have asked (can you assist with the responses):
At what point did you realise that you felt the agreements had been offered irresponsibly?
Did you suffer any loss due to the agreement, and if so in what form and when?
If you did suffer a loss, who did you blame for you being in that position? and why?
Please could you, let me know why you were unable to bring your complaint about this agreement to the business before June 2018?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what were the dates each of the creation cards was opened? Were you manly making minimum payments?
are the accounts still open?
HX says
2012, 2013 and 2017.
Min payments only and missed payments on one of them.
All closed
Do you have advise on what I should respond back to FOS? Thank you Sara
Dave says
Hi I logged a complaint with Vanquis on 28th May, hadn’t even had an auto response so chased and they have replied with simply the below:
‘Good Day
There is no complaint logged under this email.
Thank you’
There was no name no email signature etc very odd. Can I just check Customer.Relations@vanquisbank.co.uk is the correct email? I have replied saying regardless if they have logged my complaint I sent it on 28th May so it’s going to the Ombudsman 8 weeks from that date.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what email did you send the chaser to?
Dave says
The same customer relations email address, I just forwarded the original email on and in my new email I explained I had sent the email below in May but had no response. They were literally looking at the email I sent in May whilst saying they hadn’t logged a complaint. Assume I can still send to the ombudsman when the time is up?
Just a strange email reply, it didn’t have any company info on no phone number nothing from Vanquis etc just a blank email apart from those few words
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so the mail address is still functioning. And it is still the one listed on the FCA register.
Yes you could send this to the Ombudsman after 8 weeks. However in practice FOS won’t start work un til it has a decision from Vanquis so you don’t gain a lot from trying to do this.
Dave says
Just looked at the email chain and the customer relations email team forwarded my 2nd email that I sent them to a complaints email on Saturday 22nd June. The complaints email then emailed me on 3rd July saying they hadn’t logged a complaint. Really poor.
John says
Hi Sara,
The FOS has recently upheld an affordability complaint in my favour. It was for a Barclaycard when they increased my limit from £4,000 to £7,000 in February 2018. The Adjudicator has worded it as ‘Rework the account removing all interest, fees, charges and insurances (not already refunded) that have been applied to balances above £4,000’.
So does this mean that they would be reworking it as refund anything spent over £4,000? For example if my monthly interest at a £7,000 limit was £130, it would be reworked so that I only paid £70 interest and they back back the £60 difference? Or does it mean all of the interest would be refunded? For the record, I’ve always been around the £7,000 mark since the increase.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
For example if my monthly interest at a £7,000 limit was £130, it would be reworked so that I only paid £70 interest and they back back the £60 difference?
yes that is right.
What was your financial situation at the point they increased the limit to 7000 – was it already pretty bad?
John says
Yes it was very bad. The other increases were over 6 years ago and the FOS didn’t accept my answers when they looked into going back further.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you could go back and argue that at that point your finances were so bad that Barclaycard should have not only not increased your limit, but it should have instead offered you forbearance by offering to freeze the interest on the card – so that all the interest from that point should be refunded.
John says
Thanks Sara
John says
I had the same situation with Virgin credit card last year where I had a £2,000 card which increased to £4,000 in September 2017. The 2,000 was deemed as OK but 4,000 unaffordable so Virgin were asked to refund ALL interest from September 2017 when it was increased and then the account was closed…. Do you know what makes this different to that? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It should depend how bad your situation was.
Jason says
Thanks Sara, I will go back to them with this
Jen says
Update here – I had 2 unaffordable credit cards with Tesco. The second was approved a few months after the first when already in a lot of debt. I complained only back to 2018 and only about one card. I cannot praise their customer service enough compared to other banks. After sending them minimal information by email I still had from near that time, they came back to me after 1 week to offer a full refund of fees, interest and 8% on BOTH cards. This completely erases my debt on both cards and leaves me with approx £2000 spare that I can now use to pay off my other card. I am so incredibly grateful to Sara & also very impressed with Tesco. After a battle, HSBC also refunded my overdraft. I am well on my way to being debt free after 20 years & my life has changed drastically.
Matt says
Hey
I made an affordability complaint against Barclaycard for irresponsible lending, which they have accepted and have refunded interest and fees. I asked for negative entries to be removed from my credit check which they have also adhered to. However the debt for my Barclaycard was sold onto PRA group and I still owe the balance to them. The refund is going against the remaining balance which is fine. The debt to barclaycard was defaulted on my credit check, but marked as settled when it was sold to PRA group, however I have a default account with PRA group for the debt. Should this default be removed as well as it was initially this credit card account? The Barclaycard one has been removed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it should – PRA should mirror what Barclaycard has done. Tell Barclaycard that you would like them to sort this out.
Amy says
Hi Sara
I’ve made an affordability complaint to TSB for loans taken out to consolidate debt, one of which was £25k I have refinanced this 5 times in 5 years and also been able to take out an additional loan with them. I did in fact put down that I had no additional debt payments but was using it to consolidate other debts, if I bank with them are they required to check my current account for details surrounding my incomings and outgoings? I am so surprised I’ve been able to take out as much as I have done so easily without any additional checks being done and also no questions asked when putting in 0 on my other outer outgoings. I’m not sure whether I have a good case or not.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes your bank should consider what it knows about you, including the bank statements when it decideds to lend you money. If you are on a good wage with very low borrowing and want a 4k loan, they wouldnt have to look that had. But refinancing 5 time in 5 years up to 25k and they should have been looking VERY closely. This sounds like a good complaint to me – let me know what happens but if they don’t make you a very good offer, straight to the Ombudsman!
Look at making complaints about the other debts that you cleared with these loans too. Any cash refund you get can then be used to reduce the TSB debt. This will not impact on the affordability complaint against TSB at all.
Amy says
Thank you, I’ll let you know what they say. My 2 loans with them currently stand at £28k in total, my salary is £30k a year, having said that I have several credit cards outstanding as well which would show my making payments to them on my bank statements, feels like I’m robbing Peter to pay Paul sometimes but not defaulted on anything. Thanks for your help
I’ve just checked my credit report and it’s 6 times I’ve refinanced my loan plus they allowed me to take out an additional £8k loan earlier this year on top, 1 of which was 3 months apart, scary!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
very scary. Good luck!
Matt says
I logged a complaint with Vanquis regarding my credit card. The account was opened on 9th June 2018. I logged the complaint on 12th June, not realising it was 3 days after 6 years. Anyway they’ve sent me a final response letter. They’ve said they can’t investigate the initial application as it was more than 6 years ago (by 3 days). However they’ve investigated the credit increase from £150 to £550 which happened August 2019 and have said because I have no CCJs and less than £1500 debt that it was OK and they are not up holding the complaint. What I don’t understand is that I was issued a CCJ in July 2018 for a credit card debt and had taken out an £11000 loan from Barclays in June 2019. Both which are prior to this check for the credit increase. In the letter it says any questions to ring them, is this worth it or should I just go to the FOA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No point in wasting time arguing with Vanquis. Send this straight to the Ombudsman.
Lucy says
Hi Sara,
I have recently been discharged from a DRO and I am wondering if I am able to request a refund from many credit card/loans that irresponsibly loaned to me? Would I receive any money refunds even though I have been discharged from DRO and the debts wiped? My thinking is that technically I feel I am owed money as I was paying the debts for so long before they simply became unmanageable.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can make a claim and there won’t be any effect on your completed DRO>
However if a card balance was included in the DRO, then the lender is entitled to set off any refund against that balance, so you will only get a cash refund if the refund is big compared to the balance.
A made up example to illustrate:
Say your Vanquis balance was 1800 at the start of your DRO.
And you win the claim, either with Vanquis or with the Ombudsman.
If the refund is less than 1800, you won’t get any refund, as it is less than the amount written off in your DRO.
If the refund is more than 1800 then the difference should be paid to you. Plus some 8% interest.
HX says
Hi Sara / update: re the Shawbrook loan – I received the following back re 2nd loan:
On this occasion, while I cannot uphold your complaint, I am willing as a gesture of goodwill to make the loan interest free. In situations of Personal Loan we would never refund the loan as you have had the benefit of the money, however it is typical in other situations where there has been an error that we make the loan interest free.
Good result! So the total interest is £13.5k
Will they reduce my payments or term?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large was the loan and how much have you repaid so far?
HX says
I need to have a look to add up the interest (the online statements aren’t clear) but it was £804/month. 35k, accepted July 2022 for 5 years. £23k remains as a settlement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So if you borrowed 35k (I am assuming that is what you borrowed, not £33k plus £13k interest) for 5 years and have paid 24 payments of £804 (it could have been 23? or even possibly 22?), then the balance should be reduced to about £16,000. Repaying that in the next 3 years would be about £440 a month. Is that actually affordable?
If it isn’t you need to ask for a lower payments that actually is affordable.
HX says
It would help me if the payment term was increased to enable me to pay off other debts
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then offer what you think is a sensible affordable amount. This is a huge debt and you do Need it cleared, so not a silly low amount.
Steven says
Hi there. I’m after some advice on Aqua and Fluid credit cards.
I have both accounts, Aqua was opened in August 2022 with a limit of £450.
Increased to £1300 14th November 2022
Increased to £2150 13 March 2023
Increased to £3350 11th July 2023
Increased to £4600 14 November 2023
My credit score was 334 at the time of application. Prior to this my credit score was 190 in the same year.
Fluid was opened in May 2023 with a limit of £2000
Original credit agreement of £2000
Increased to £2800 25 October 2023
Increased to £3400 28th February 2024
My credit score at this time was 453.
My Aqua card balance is now 10 times what my original credit amount was at the time of opening and completely out of control with the last 6 months payments containing recommended additional payments so between £290 and £360 per month. The additional recommended payments meant that I was using the card more to offset the additional outgoings.
My credit score is now 374 and dropping due to my current circumstances.
Would you class this as irresponsible lending and should I complain?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are your other total debts?
because yes I think you could complain about these, but that would only get the interest refunded. Have you added up how muich that is? And for the Aqua card, you may only get the interest refunded on balances over £450, which would be less.
Steven says
Thanks Sara.
Total CC debt is around 12k, car loan of around 10k, other debt around 8k.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you had any car finance that started before end Jan 2021?
could you win complaints about other credit card? What is the other debt – loans, overdrafts… you can win affordability complaints about them too
Steven says
Car finance started March 2022. Overdraft sits around -£1500 each month. Loans (incl car finance) sit at £13.1k outstanding.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes i was asking about older car finance – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-commission-get-refund/ for why.
read up about other sorts of affordability refunds: https://debtcamel.co.uk/tag/refunds/
HX says
Hi Sara – I received back from the investigator for a complaint made about MBNA credit card with a limit of £10k. They agree that proportional checks weren’t made. So they went on to assess my bank statements. However, it looks like they have assumed my total income includes money I transferred from a savings account after I had taken out a loan from another provider the month before and I was using the money to live off. They say MBNA wouldn’t have been aware of this loan so not relevant.
Is it not a fair argument to say that only my actual income should have been taken into account?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was there simply a large amount of money in your current account for months? Or were there transfers coming in from a savings account?
because this is not actually “savings” it is debt.
HX says
I can show it was £200, £300 amounts coming in from the savings which was from the loan.
I have queried and straight away I had an email back (even though it was the official final letter outlining findings) and they have asked for my wage slips. So I’ve sent those across which then show no disposable income left after debt outgoings. The interest is around £1k since I used the card for balance transfers which were 0% for a good while.
HX says
Complaint upheld by the investigator. MBNA have 2 weeks to provide further information. My bank statements show I had a deficit after all bills were paid. Do you think it’s likely to remain upheld?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t really guess if MBNA will ask for this to go to an Ombudsman decision.
J says
Hi Sara, thank you for all your help on this website. Two months I complained to all previous lenders of credit cards, loans and payday loans. This was around 14 in total . All the pay day loans offered me refunds totalling 1.2k and agreed to delete the loans off my record which is great. However the bigger companies such as Capital, Admiral, 118 and Vanquis (where the bulk of my debt is) just sent back a generic email showing no real interest in my complaint at all. Is it harder to get refund from these companies? I will put a complaint in with the FOS but I’m having trouble getting hold of bank statements dating back years ago. Is it worth submitting without bank statements? Or do I not stand a chance without this. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago were these debts? what is your current financial situation like?
J says
All within the last 3-5 years! I have two cards with capital both maxed out at £500 each. A vanquis card maxed out at 1k. No other debt now as I spent the last 18 months working as hard as possible to clear around 15k in loan debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can get bank statements going back 6 years easily, even from closed accounts. Get them as they will really help your case at the ombudsman.
Send FOS the complaints now, include in this that your payday loans should have been a warning sign of problems, and set about getting those bank statements so you will have then when FOS asks for them
Lee says
Hi Sara, Would this complaints template be suitable for a balance transfer card?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has the 0% period ended? if not, when does it?
Catherine says
Had complaint with Capital one(post office card)upheld today after 5weeks,does the below response say to you that they are writing off the remaining balance after interest refund??They have cancelled my direct debit I had set up to make payments and said I don’t need to do anything so assuming I’ve read correctly as nothing is said about me setting up a plan to repay the remaining balance.
To put things right, we’re going to give you a refund of £443.97. This amounts to all the fees and interest we’ve charged as a result of our decision to lend.
Here’s how the refund has been calculated:
Fees: £74.53
Contractual Interest: £369.44
The refund will be offset against your current balance of £1415.79 and in accordance with your credit card agreement.
The remaining amount of £971.82 will then be cleared. You’ll see these refunds in your Capital One mobile app from 22 July 2024.
Your account will be closed in 60 days and as set out in your credit agreement. In the meantime, we’ve reduced your credit limit to £0 which means you won’t be able to use your card.
You won’t need to do anything and any further interest charged within the next 60 days, will be refunded automatically.
We won’t be making any amendments to your credit file, as we didn’t record any late marks while this account was active.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It would be more helpful if they said they were writing off the remaining balance or would not be seeking to collect it.
I think you should ask them to confirm that this is happening.
Catherine says
Hi sara Just an update after I received final response on Saturday upholding complaint with capital one,they refunded the interest and fees the next day and also cleared the remaining balance of £971 on my account as a financial loss.
I had initial limit of £500 for 2 years,maxed out and only paying minimum and they offered in app increase to £1500 in May this year,which I then maxed out.
Great result.
HX says
Hi Sara – a bit of advice please. I complained to FOS about a card which shouldn’t have been lent to my husband.
The investigator has not upheld but they did say that proportionate checks were not completed by HSBC and they have looked now at bank statements. His income was £30k and the external lending was £77.3k (loans/credit cards/HP) and HSBC gave him £9k limit. They are not upholding since they say that the bank account was maintained well (joint account) and no use of overdraft. They say he wasn’t over indebted but I think he was. They also didn’t look at % of income being spent on the debt. They say that they needed to consider that the credit card was used for a 0 % balance transfer which would have saved him paying interest on other lending. He also says that £1k was moved into a savings account but that was from the lending I took out (loans etc) and put into so-called ‘savings’ which was really debt.
I’m inclined to go the ombudsman but what is the success rate here? I’m a bit surprised at the investigators comments above, since just because he didn’t use the overdraft, doesn’t mean that he wasn’t over indebted and the lending was responsible, I disagree.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go to the Ombudsman. It doesn’t really matter what the average success rate is, what matters is how good his case is. And he has a massive amount of borrowing for his income – that does not suggest that he was in a position to manage and pay down new credit card borrowings of even half of the 9k limit they gave him.
HX says
Thanks Sara.
What’s the difference between and investigator vs ombudsman as the investigator I had for the last upheld was much more thorough .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
An investigator/adjudicator is the “first stage” at FOS. they look at the complaint and suggest a solution with both parties, you and the firm, have to accept. How much detail they look into a case is up to them – a standard case may need less detail. 90% of FOS complaints are settled at this stage.
If either party doesn’t it goes to the “second stage” where it is looked at by a more senior member of staff with the tilte of an ombudsman/ Ombudaman decisions are legally binding on firms. They are also published, with the customers name anonymised eg to Miss H.
HX says
So, I had quite a scary call from the investigator. He says because the income declared on the online application was bigger than his actual income (I think it was £73k year vs actual of £30k), then HSBC could apply a CIFAS mark on his credit file. So the eg advise not taking it any further as this is a route lenders are going down? He says no one will lend even a mobile phone if that happened and so not worth it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was HSBC his bank?
Did he put that income on the application?
Did he say in his complaint that his income was only 30k?
It is very very rare (I can’t actually remember a case) for a lender to apply a CIFAS marker when an affordability complaint has been made saying that income was overstated. I can only remember one case where a CIFAS marker has been applied and that was where the lender said the customer had forged a letter from his doctor about his mental health.
Some payday lenders often make noises about fraud, but nothing ever seems to happen when people ignore then. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-lender-says-lied/
HX says
They say his income was £73k on the application from. They are not his bank. In the complaint (and in bank statements), his income is 30k.
Honestly, he was scary. He said that other investigators had had this situation before and that it’s risky to take it further to the ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you think he would have put 73k on the application? A typo is not fraud. And HSBC should have made basic checks which would normally have included some rough estimate of his income…
A Cifas marker is a serious step. As the ombudsman put it on one decision telling a firm to remove a marker:
“I also need to consider whether the report to CIFAS was made fairly. On this point, [the bank] needs to have more than a suspicion or concern. It has to show it had reasonable grounds to believe that a fraud or financial crime had been committed or attempted and that the evidence would support this being reported to the authorities.”
It’s up to you. All I can say is that I have never seen this sort of problem with a bank complaint. And I have seen a lot of them.
HX says
Hi Sara, bit of an update.
I talked with a different investigator (who is dealing with my other cases) and they were appalled at the way in which I was told it was risky to take further to the ombudsman. The reason I was so shaken after the call is that he inferred he was having these discussions with HSBC about the potential to do this.
I called FOS and explained the situation and they have now transferred to the ombudsman. I received an email from the investigator apologising.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good. I have never heard of this happening nor any FOS investigator mentioning the possibility
HX says
Hi Sara. I’ve complained about irresponsible credit cards (bank of Scotland, Halifax, Lloyds). All three are being looked at now by an investigator at the FOS. I am looking back at my bank accounts, credit report and there was a high debt:income ratio and my student account (owned by same bank) was maxed out every day for years at -1200. I remember applying for these cards to get 0% interest rates but eventually I started paying interest on all. One of the transactions has been queried in my bank account which was a cash deposit of £5.6k – my dad lent me money at this time. Will this go against my complaint? I also applied for 3 loans during this period and had more going out than coming in.
Thanks as ever for your support.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no, just say it was a loan from your dad.
Hx says
Thanks, I have
HH says
Hi Sara, is there any update on the review the FO are conducting re time limitations, I’ve an outstanding complaint which has been put on hold and has now for 8 months. If so what approach are they taking? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have seen the draft decision – it isn’t published yet.
What is your situation – is the card account still open? if not when was it settled? How far back was it opened and when were the limit increases?
JD says
Hi Sarah,
Would you be able to indicate if this will be positive or negative for the potentially time barred complaints and going back further than 6 years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s positive. How much that affects an individual case will have to be seen.
HH says
Hello, it’s an overdraft with multiple increases over several years, Halifax have refunded for 2.5 years as account was closed around 3-4 ago so 6 in total, but refused to go back more. What’s the name of the case please? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Canada Square v Potter. https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2021/339.html
Also see Patel v Patel https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/3264.html
BB says
HI Sara,
I put in a complaint in January 24 tried to go back to start of card but was rejected for first increase. they are investigatin all increases from 2018 which was 3. I now have an email after chasing which sates
“there’s been some legislative clarification – which impacts complaint scenarios such as yours, and we’re required to take the law into account before reaching our decisions.”
Has there been a new law that has com into force?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s not a new law, it is a Supreme Court case last year on the interpretation of the law.
FOS have issued some key decisions on this, but they aren’t yet published. And it isn’t clear how some of it will work in practice. But this is generally positive for going back further.