The repayments on many loans from bad credit lenders are too high to be manageable so people get deeper into debt trying to repay them.
If you have an unaffordable loan, you can complain and ask for interest to be removed from your balance. If the loan has been settled, you can ask for a refund of the interest you paid.
This article describes how to complain, with templates.
NB the complaints here are for “normal” loans and also use this approach for logbook loans. If you have a guarantor loan, read Refunds from guarantor loans as it’s very different, and the guarantor may be able to complain as well.
Like payday loan refunds – with some extra twists
The regulator says for a loan to be affordable:
you have to be able to make the repayments without hardship or having to borrow elsewhere.
This is the same test as for payday loan refunds. It applies to most forms of credit, including large, long term loans and logbook loans.
Many people have successfully adapted the payday loan refund template letters to get money back on large loans from bad credit lenders such as 118 118 Money, Everyday Loans and Avant Credit.
That letter emphasises the problems that repeat borrowing caused. It’s a strong point in favour of payday loan complaints and why I always say that it’s hard to get a refund if you only had one or two loans from a payday lender.
That sounds like bad news for these complaints about large loans, where you normally only have one loan plus possibly a top up or two…
But the good news is that because these loans are larger and longer term, the lender should have made better checks before giving you the first loan!
Making a complaint and asking for a refund
There is a four stage complaints process for these large, bad credit loans:
- Get a copy of your personal information from the lender.
- Put in a detailed complaint.
- Consider lender’s response.
- Send the complaint to the Finanical Ombudsman.
Complain by email
It’s easiest if all communications are by email – free, instant and you have a copy with a date stamp to show the ombudsman. So here are the email addresses to use for the main lenders. If the email address doesnty include the word complaint in it, always put COMPLAINT in as the title of an email to them:
Avant Credit emailcomplaints@avantcredit.co.uk
Bamboo Loans complaints@bambooloans.com
CarCashPoint complaints@carcashpoint.com
Everyday Loans complaints@everyday-loans.co.uk
Likely Loans loans@likelyloans.com
Loans 2 Go (and their logbookloans.co.uk brand) ps@loans2go.co.uk
Mobile Money complaints@mobilemoney.co.uk
Moolr admin@moolr.co.uk
Motor Kitty customercare@motorkitty.co.uk
On Stride support@onstride.co.uk
Ramsdens (logbook loans) customerservices@ramsdensforcash.co.uk
Savvy info@savvy.co.uk
Vanquis customer.relations@vanquisbank.co.uk
Varooma complaints@varooma.com
118 118 Money complaints@118118money.com
Stage 1 – ask for personal information
This first stage lodges an affordability complaint and starts the clock going on the 8 weeks a lender has to respond to you. Put AFFORDABILITY COMPLAINT as the title of your email.
You probably already know when you took out the loan and any top-ups. But it’s good to ask the lender to send you a copy of all the personal information they have about you.
Sample email:
I am asking you to refund the interest and any charges I paid, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
[delete if you have repaid the loan] I would also like an affordable repayment plan to be put in place if I still owe a balance after this refund.
To help me explain the details, I am making a Subject Access Request (SAR) for all the personal information you hold about me including, but not limited to, my applications, all credit and other affordability checks, a statement of account for my borrowing, and a record of all phone calls. I understand you are not allowed to charge me for sending this information.
SARs are often sent out by post, so if you have moved, make sure the lender has your new address.
NB The template says you are asking for an affordable payments arrangement at the end of your complaint. If you cannot afford the repayments right now, you can ask for an affordable payments arrangement immediately unless you have a logbook loan, where you have to keep up the payments or you may lose the car.
While you are waiting for this, assemble some other information that may help your case. Get copies of your bank statements from 3 months before the first loan.
Download a copy of your Noddle free credit report. Use this to do two things for each loan or top-up you took:
- make a list of all your outstanding credit when you applied – all the credit cards, loans, payday loans, overdraft. You want to the details of how much you owed in total and what your monthly payments should have been;
- make a list of credit report problems in the 6 months before your application – new defaults, missed payments, arrangements to pay, DMPs, insolvency.
Also read Payday lender says I lied. That looks at the various reasons why you may not have given an accurate account of your income or expenses. People have won complaints where they lied because they were desperate but there are other reasons too, so think what (if any) may have applied to you.
Stage 2 – give complaint details
When you have the SAR back from the lender, you can look for things that the lender knew but chose to ignore or didn’t ask about.
Change this template so it reflects what happened to you, both why the loan was unaffordable and why the lender should have realised this. Where I have given some options, delete them all and put in another one if that is more accurate.
No-one will include all these points. It is better to write a short complaint pointing out real problems than send pages telling the lender general stuff they already know.
You can see from my bank statements and credit record that I was unable to afford the loan repayments. [Delete if not relevant] [For example, I had to borrow from X payday lender and I defaulted on my Y debt.]
When I completed the loan application, I understated some of my expenses. This was because: [put what actually happened! this could be something like] I wasn’t very aware of the amounts I was spending and completed the application hastily. OR I wanted to hide the fact I was spending a lot of money on gambling/cigarettes/alcohol. OR I was desperate and wanted to make my expenses sound low so you would give me the loan.
FCA’s CONC 5.3 says that you should not accept an application where you ought reasonably to know the figures are not truthful, you can’t rely solely on information on an application, and that you should not accept information which is inconsistent with what you know. This was a larger loan, you knew I had poor credit and may have been in a difficult position so you should have tried to verify details. If you had done this, you would have rejected my application. For example [delete or add to these as appropriate]:
- You should have noticed that some figures were implausibly low, for example: x,y,z
- I didn’t include amounts such as [delete/add as appropriate]: car insurance, TV license, opticians and dental costs, presents]
- My bank statement would have shown that I was spending more than the application said. Either you saw my bank statement and ignored this or you never asked for my bank statement to verify this.
- During a telephone call, your agent talked me into agreeing that some figures should be lower in order to get my application accepted.
- Your application didn’t ask me for details of my other credit commitments and I didn’t realise I had to include them.
- You should have seen that the figures I put in for other credit commitments were inconsistent with my credit record.
When I applied for a second loan/a top-up [delete/add as appropriate]:
- you ignored the evidence on the credit check that my position had got more difficult OR you didn’t do a new credit check. If you had done this you would have seen the new credit I had taken out and the new problems showing on my credit record.
- you didn’t ask if my income or expenses had changed, and they had.
- you didn’t ask for bank statements so you could check if the new repayments were affordable.
- I had said the first loan was to consolidate debt, but you should have seen that this hadn’t happened.
- you increased my interest rate, showing you realised I was in a more difficult position but you did not check whether I could actually afford the new repayments.
You may think that’s a lot of work or you don’t want to mention a lot of these things to a lender. It’s up to you, you can just put in a brief complaint and give the Ombudsman fuller information later. But going into details has worked for some readers.
Stage 3 – consider lender’s response
You should get a response from the lender within 8 weeks.
Normally you can tell straight away if a response is acceptable or not good enough. If you aren’t sure, ask what other people think in the Comments below this article.
Don’t be put off by a rejection, or the lender saying it was your fault because of your loan application. As the complaint letter says, lenders are obliged to do checks. For one small payday loan, these checks could have been brief. But for your large loan, the lender should have made sure they knew enough to be confident you could afford it. If they didn’t, send your case to the Ombudsman.
If you think there is something very wrong with what the lender said, perhaps some information they have completely ignored, you could go back and point this out. Say you would like them to look again at this and you will send it to the Ombudsman in a week if they haven’t come back with an improved offer.
Stage 4 – send to Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)
I suggest you use the “do it online” option to send a complaint to the Ombudsman. It asks you for all the details they need.
The main part of your complaint can be a version of what you sent the lender in Stage two. Add any more details you want, including pointing out if you think there are errors in the lender’s reply. You should attach the following:
- the reply from the lender
- Noddle credit record
- bank statements starting 3 months before first loan.
Your complaint will first be looked at by an adjudicator. If either you or the lender reject the adjudicator’s decision, it will then be looked at by an Ombudsman.
“Is this really going to work?”
Here are some recent comments from people who have had refunds for this sort of loan. They show how some people get a good result directly and others have to go to the Ombudsman. Don’t assume a rejection by the lender means you can’t win!
Andy: A flat out refusal from 118118 Money. One loan (£1,000) plus one top up (£2,500). Stating they had done nothing wrong, all payments made on time and paid top up loan off early. Saying I had a good income, verified by a bank statement and they had phone call recordings that I had made it clear the repayments were affordable.
Sent to FOS as I was in loads of debt at the time, loads of repeat pay day loans etc. Didn’t hold out much hope but thought I may get a positive decision on the top up loan. Adjudicator held in my favour on both loans. 118118 accepted decision and offered circa £800. I had my loan statements and the total interest (plus 8% interest) was nearer £1,300. Adjudicator queried this for me with 118118. They agreed with my calculations. Adjudicator gave them 28 days to pay. It was in my bank the very same day.
Dan: I had a complaint upheld by the adjudicator at the Ombudsman against Avant Credit: Refund of all interest and 8%, £75 compensation, removal of loan from my credit file. Avant Credit agreed with the adjudicator.
Louise: Have had my response from Everyday Loans and complaint upheld. All interest been removed and I only have to pay back what they lent. Excellent outcome. Lent 5000 and have paid 3k so just 2k left to go. On my DMPthe balance was showing at 6.5k still left. Took them 5 weeks to uphold my complaint a lot of emails going back and forth.
Soph: Had 2 loans from Avant Credit. Rejected within 2 days, sent to FOS Jan, upheld in March, Avant agreed with FOS and refund in the bank within 7 days.
Robert: I was successful in getting all interest wiped from my topped up loan with 118 118, didn’t go to the FOS or anything.
“What about a bank loan?”
The affordability test is the same – could you repay the loan without getting deeper into debt elsewhere. But there are two problems with normal bank loans:
- their interest rates are lower so it’s harder to show that the smaller repayments are unaffordable; and
- if your credit record was OK or even good, the bank wouldn’t have been alerted that way to the fact you may have difficulty.
So it can be hard to win a case involving a typical bank loan, especially if your credit record was OK. But if you want to try, you can use the template letters here.
Need some help?
If you need help to complain, go to your local Citizens Advice, they will help for free.
Don’t use a claims management company. They are expensive and often incompetent. A good claim involves telling your own story, not sending a standard letter!
Getting a payday loan refund if you owe money
What to put in an affordability complaint
Examples of gambling & payday loan refunds
Emily says
Hi Sara,
This may be a bit off topic but has a loose connection to my claim I have with 118.
So I’ve called 118 to set up an affordable repayment plan with them and they were just AWFUL. I went through my income and expenditure with them and we concluded that of my £1970 take home my current outgoings are £1800 (including the 118 loan) – side note she contested that I could spend £20 a month on opticians/glasses/contacts.
They initially refused to give me the affordable payment plan despite me saying that I have had sell items and use payday loan companies in the last 12 months to pay for priority bills like my rent and council tax. They said that because I had a £170 ‘disposable income’ that I should be fine to continue the repayments as they are and that I could actually spare MORE. I just thought it was insane that she thought that would be enough of a buffer, 1 emergency filling or a nail in my tyre and that would be gone. It also did not include any sort of entertainment budget (I’m not exactly drinking champagne at the Ritz every night but I like to go to the cinema every now and again) it didn’t include a Christmas budget, car maintenance, savings etc..
Anyway, on to the point.
Do you know if there is any industry standard for what is an acceptable amount of surplus to have and still be accepted for an affordable repayment plan?
Thanks
Emily
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There isn’t an acceptable surplus. I suggest that you talk to National Debtline and say you think you are being asked to pay an amount you cannot afford – they will help you go through an Income & Expenditure sheet you can send to 118.
If you spend 320 a month on contacts, then that is what they cost and it should go in your expenses. Obviously if you were spending 3200 a month that would be different, but £20 a month sounds fine to me.
£170 a month “spare” sounds like a lot BUT you should be allowed monthly amounts for things like presents, haircuts, dry cleaning, clothes, car servicing and repairs.
JOJO says
Hi. I have various PDL and high interest loans currently running. Got myself into a mess and will be going into DMP shortly. I have put in an affordability claim against Provident so far. All loans paid apart from last 2 which defaulted and they sold onto a DCA. Provident have sent my details following SAR request but seems to be a lot missing. No copy credit file affordability checking. The CCA for all and even one of those is signed by an ex partner (a loan I don’t recollect taking out). I also have likely loans, 118, everyday, p2p, rbs, sunny, SNC, Drafty, uncle buck loans all running at once. SNC loaned me £920 month after month after taking circa £1200 inc interest often same day as they took funds back I had loaned it again to keep up with payments. I have credit cards and a 2500 overdraft too which I have lived within for at least 3 years. How’s time to sort out what I owe, stop the cycle, do you feel complaints would also be a must. Thanks for you advice
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A DMP is the best way to get yourself into a safe position so you don’t have to borrow again. Also get a new basic bank account (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/new-basic-bank-account/) and include the overdraft in the DMP. And cancel the CPAs to all the lenders right away, don’t wait until the DMP is already in place.
Then complaints sound a good way of reducing the amount to pay off in the DMP. Complaints to all lenders you currently owe money to and to those you have borrowed from in the past.
Make yourself a timeline so you can see what order you took out which loans. So for example (and obviously I have just made this up) Likely loans could see that you had outstanding payday loans form Sunny, RBS, SNC and a large loan from 118 money. The month after you took out a loan from 118 Money, who would also have seen the previous month’s Likely Loan on the list. This will help you to be clear in each complaint what the lender should have seen and why that should have been obvious that their loan was not affordable.
JOJO says
Thank you Sarah. Yes I am already in the process. I have new account, and have asked for breathing space. What do you think about Provident having nothing that seems to look into credit checking? List of all loans, details of loan amounts and payments and CCA. Like i said one of these loans wasn’t even signed for by me.
JOJO says
Thank you Sarah. Yes I am already in the process. I have new account, and have asked for breathing space. What do you think about Provident having nothing that seems to look into credit checking? List of all loans, details of loan amounts and payments and CCA. Like i said one of these loans wasn’t even signed for by me.
Veera says
I recieved this from 118118 You will note that I have not upheld your complaint regarding agreement 849971; however, I will be upholding your complaint regarding agreement 1006598 and the reason I say this is because unfortunately, due to a technical issue we are unable to view the credit file that was used to make a decision on this application and therefore, we cannot fairly defend this aspect of your complaint. Please note that this aspect of your complaint is being upheld purely because we cannot obtain the information needed to review this part; not because we have done anything wrong.
As a result of the above, had you repaid the loan (1006598) in full a refund of interest would have been due but as the account remains active, this is not the case. The current balance on the account is £5903.87 and as such, I have now removed the interest of £3409.40 from the account which means that the balance has reduced from £5903.87 to £2494.47 which means that once this amount is repaid, you would have only repaid the loan amount with no interest.
So I had 2 loans with them one 2016 for 2500 then rolled over with a top up for a 2nd loan this year of 1800 as the interest was applied upfront is this a good offer as I only had 12 months left on the first loan so had paid for 2 years
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This comes down to two things. First how good or poor 118’s decision was to give you the first loan. Would you like to summarise your finances at that point? Second whether you think have the balance reduced by £3409 feels like a fair offer – and that is a pretty subjective call..
If you would like to repay the remaining balance at a more affordable rate, then 118 Money should let you do this, but that doesn’t really affect your decision about whether to accept their offer or go to FOS.
Rachel says
I have had a reply from 118 118 today saying the same thing, they aren’t upholidng 2 of mine but they are the 3rd one as they ‘cannot obtain the information’ either way i am happy :) £900 :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is feeling like a pattern!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you would also like them to agree to reduced monthly payments, this is the point to ask.
DM84 says
Hi,
Could you elaborate on when these loans were taken out (month and year if possible)? Mine was taken out in 2016 when I was struggling with debt. The statement I sent to 118 to approve the loan showed payday loans and items that had been sent to debt collection agencies. My income and outgoings on that statement also left me with 20 pounds that month and anyone could have seen that I never had any left over money to afford a loan but sometimes desparation creeps in. I topped up the loan then paid it off early though.
I would accept an easy win like you have had and hope my loan was around the same time as everyone elses.
Dana says
Sent off my complaint to 118118 as I’m struggling to pay it off, since they offered me the top up loan. Do they freeze payment while the complaint is being handled or do I continue to make payment throughout the process?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them you want a payment arrangement at a rate you can afford – then you can just carry on with that if your complaint is unsuccessful.
People are having good results with 118 where there has been a top up loan! But it’s good to get into a safe position.
James H says
Complain and they will probably sort. For me I was complaining about the original loan and then took out a top up. Thye just let me off all of the top up and refunded all interest on the other loan
JOJO says
Hi Sarah
Can you advise what information you should be provided with from a loan company when you request SAR.
I would expect the application, details of their checks (credit check),CCA, details of principal, interest and payments etc.
Am I expecting too much? Some info I received doesn’t include how they reached their decision to loan etc.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“the application, details of their checks (credit check),CCA, details of principal, interest and payments etc”
that sounds right.
Was there a phone call with you about the application or was it all online – if there was a phone call then you should ask for a copy of the call recording if you think it may be interesting, eg showing that they didn’t enquire about a lot of your expenses or they ignored some problems you told them about.
“info I received doesn’t include how they reached their decision to loan”
If you are expecting a document saying “We decided to give JOJO a loan because for A, B & C”, that document probably never existed. But you should all the evidence that went into the decision making.
Have they not sent you credit check details?
JOJO says
Hi Sarah. Thank you your answer helped a lot. No there is no credit check details and even one of the CCA documents was not signed by me but an ex partner. There is one customer details form for one of the loans but just CCA and details of transctions for other 6. No calls all was done verbally with this company. No online applications etc.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Which lender was this? Were all the applications were on their premises – is this a logbook loan?
I suggest you go back and ask whether any credit searches were done because they do not seem to have been sent to you.
JOJO says
Hi Sarah
It was Provident doorstep lending. But also I received documents from a PDL and again no evidence of credit checking.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah ok, it is very possible that Provident didn’t do any credit checks but I suggest you ask them to confirm this.
James H says
I’ve had thousands back from 118118.
The FOS have now ruled in my favour against Avant Credit too. I’m waiting on their response.
The turn around on these has been far quicker from the FOS that Pay Day Loan complaints.
Just one question. The adjudicator (once it had been assigned to him) got back to me within 1 day with the decision! For other simmilar loans I havent heard back after a week. What is the normal time you have to wait? With Christmas coming a quick turnaround would be usefull! :-)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The cases are picked up much quicker than payday loans are there are many fewer of them. One day is very quick for an adjudicator to reach a decsion but it all depends on the details of the case, how complete the case file is from the lender, whether your complaint covered everything the adjudicator wanted to know about, and what other work an adjudicator had on.
MM says
Got a good result with Avant Credit, who upheld my complaint and agreed to refund all the interest and charges paid over
the original loan amount. Just waiting now for the payment from them.
I’m going to have a go at complaining about two bank loans that I have had and apply the affordability test (worth a crack). Does anyone have an e-mail address I should direct my complaint to Lloyds Bank?
James h says
Congratulations!
Just out of interest, how long have you been waiting for Avant to pay? I’m pretty much in the same boat… are they likely to delay?
MM says
Thanks. Only this week, waiting for the Customer Service Team to confirm the final amount and confirm when it will be paid. Hopefully it should not take too long.
James H says
Have you heard anything from Avant yet? Im still waiting and wondering if they will drag this out?
Thanks
MM says
Actually heard back from this morning, they confirmed the refund would be £8782.29 and paid in the next 30 days. I gave the customer service team a nudge at the start of the week.
Dana says
Hi Sara,
I got a response from Avant with 3 working days with a breakdown of the application process and how it reflected the information I provided, they didn’t send me a SAR, just basically an email saying the checks were done properly and it all came back fine, and I’ve shown no signs of struggling to make payments.
I don’t really know how to reply to this? Do I email back asking for the SAR again or do I go straight to the FOS? It seems like it was a final response on the matter.
Richard says
Weird one I’ve had today. I had a loan with 118118 that they agreed was unaffordable back in May, without the need for the Ombudsman. I’ve had a couple of arrangements with them since then, paying £50 a month. I renewed this last month, and the payment was due out today. It didn’t get taken so I called to query, where I was told that they had sold the debt on!
Has anyone got any experience of something similar? I was under the impression that they can’t put anything negative into your credit file, so how can they justify selling the debt on? Apparently this was done 3 weeks ago without any notice to me.
It was their call centre I spoke to, and they were beyond useless, so it’s difficult to know what happens next and I’m finding it really stressful.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A debt doesn’t have to be defaulted to be sold. You need to talk to the debt purchaser to confirm that they will continue to accept £50 a month and that they will not any negative marks to your credit record. If they do not, put in a new complaint to 118 and ask them to resolve the matter by buying back the debt.
Richard says
Thanks. The reason I was given was that I hadn’t kept up with the payments, which isn’t true. Presumably if the company who have purchased it don’t honour the payment and 118 won’t buy it back I’d have recourse to take further action.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, hence putting in a complaint to 118.
Sarah says
Hi Sara
Firstly, thank you for all the information available on this website, it has been an eye opener to say the least!
I am in the process of trying to get some payday loan interest refunded from QuickQuid. The ombudsman is now dealing with this as they rejected the adjudicator’s verdict! I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Anyway, I just wanted to ask you about a complaint I have with Everyday Loans. I have requested all the information they hold about the loan etc and explained that it was unaffordable. They have sent me a letter back (exactly 8 weeks to the day later) with no information enclosed, stating that they believe the loan was affordable.
Don’t they have a legal right to send me information I request?
I’ve sent them an email asking for the information again and disputing why the loan wasn’t affordable – the bank statement they checked clearly showed I hadn’t paid my mortgage and they chose to ignore this!
Should I send this straight to the ombudsman or await their response and hopefully my information?
Thanks again for all your help.
Sarah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you used the template letter on this page, that asked for a copy of all your personal information. They should have sent this! I suggest you phone them up and ask them why they haven’t and give them 1 week to send you the information before you submit complaints to the Finanical Ombudsman about affordability and to the Information Commissioners office about the fact they have not supplied your information within a month. Say you want copies of all your information including all credit checks and any other verification cheks they performed and copies of any phone calls if there was one before your loan was approved.
You could send the case to FOS straight away. But these cases are quicker at FOS than payday loan complaints and it will be a better complaint if you have these details, so its worth trying to get them first.
Sarah says
Hi Sara
Yes, I used the templates on here.
I suggest they haven’t sent the information because they know they didn’t lend responsibly. Do you think they just try and drag these things out or hope that people give up eventually?
I have sent them another email and if they don’t come back to me by the end of next week, I will send my complaint onto the ombudsman.
Thank you again for your help.
Sarah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think everyone who gives up saves them money… so it’s worth being difficult until the point where so many cases go to FOS that the regulator tells them to improve.
Lou7 says
Hi all
Does the company you complained about send you the SAR after the 8 weeks are up or before then?
Emma says
Regarding 118118, they are DREADFUL at arranging payment plans. I am on maternity leave and couldn’t afford their monthly payments, which I explained to someone over the phone, so I arranged a payment plan which they then didn’t take on the specified date, which was their mistake. I then received a threatening letter a week later, threatening to put a default on my credit file. After I sent about 8 emails with income and expenditure with no reply, I finally spoke to someone sensible who set up a correct payment plan. I put in a huge complaint to them, as their customer service was abysmal.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you also complaining about affordability to them?
Nathan says
Just a quick thank you as received details from Avant during that last two weeks that they will be upholding my complaint. Refund of £1900 for old paid off loan and a £200 overpayment on my existing defaulted loan calculated. , along with 0% interest for the rest of the life of the loan.
Sunny payday complaint gone to the Ombudsman as rejected even though I had 33 loans in two years with them!
I have also decided to put complaint in for credit cards but waiting to hear on these.
Just to say thanks for your help and guidance on the templates and information that you have helped provide.
G says
Could I still complaint to Avant even though they sold the loan onto Asset Collectsion?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can. Are you repaying the loan still?
G says
I pay a token amount to asset collections
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You send the complaint to Avant. It’s best to carry on paying the token amount to AC. If AC ask for more, tell them you are disputing the debt with Avant.
JOJO says
Avant Credit are so rude and unprofessional – anyway i requested SAR, when requesting i advised i was considering a complaint for irresponsible lending hence my SAR was requested. 19 days later they issued rejection to a complaint (even though i had not formally made one – or provided any information as to why i consider irresponsible lending etc) – 5th December SAR data received – missing the original application for credit. Wrote back to them 5th December with my reasonings for irresponsible lending (as obtained from the SAR data) and asked them to provide a copy of my original application so i could offer information relative to expenses that were advised etc – they responded ignoring my complaint details and request for application form and advised me their letter was the final response. Sent to FOS – question I complete FOS claim form on line, and obtained reference – do i have to print this off also and send to the FOS via post? Or will they have auto received a copy online.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you have completed FOS’s online form, you do not need to also send a copy by post.
I suggest your tell Avant that you have sent the case to FOS and if they do not send you details of your original loan application (? and the credit check they made on that? have you been sent that?) in a week you will be reporting them to the ICO.
JOJO says
Hi Sarah
Yes I have the credit check but not my original application for the loan.
They totally ignored my further request for the application just referred me to their final letter.
I will let them know I have sent to FOS and ask them the 3rd time for my application form.
Thanks once again for your advice.
Tony says
Hello Sara,
I only have had 2 loans from Avant. However one was taken at a time where I had lots of payday loans and credit cards. Do you think my complaint will have some standing?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Avant should have noticed your other lending on your credit record. If they ignored this, that will help your case.
J says
Hi Sara
I’ve recently had the Financial Ombudsman reject my complaints against Avant Credit and On Stride with them saying the checks carried out by both lenders were sufficient. I have asked these to be looked at again by an Ombudsman as I can’t agree given that my bank statements clearly show I was in financial difficulty and wasn’t asked for these. Do you know how likely it is that an Ombudsman would uphold these having already been looked at by an adjudicator?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have the subject access request details from both lenders? Can you identify any areas where something you said in your application or on the phone if there was a phone check with you didn’t match information the lender got from somewhere else eg your credit record? If there was, then argue that this should have shown the lender that there may be problems and they should have looked more closely eg asking for bank statements.
Jojo says
What’s the difference between:
Irresponsible lending and
Affordability
I put a complaint to AVANT for irresponsible lending and they keep replying advising Affordability
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There are dozens of reasons why Lending may be irresponsible. An advert may have been misleading. The documentation may not have told younof your right go cancel. Etc etc. Not checkin properly that a loan is affordable is jus one of them.
But if your complaint is all to do with your loan not being affordable than that is the only reason you are giving for irresponsible lending then in your case there is no difference if you call it irresponsible and the lender talks about whether it in affordable or not.
Nathan says
Does anybody know how long Avant credit take to send out the refund please? It says within their email to me 30 days but just wondered if anybody has any direct knowledge the actual timeframes?
Thanks in advance :-)
DAISY says
Hi , bit confused with letter from Ferratum. After accepting payday company offer, I can’t anymore ask Financial Ombusmen look in my case ? Can company just withdraw offer ?
I send refund letter to Ferratum ( I have one opened loans and 3 closed) , and I received answer from Ferratum :
“…the amount required to settle the loan is £298.94. This means you will have only paid back the original amounts and no interest has been charged.
However, if you do decide to contact them we will withdraw the goodwill gesture above and provide them with any information they request. The full balance will then remain due.”
They swiped £ 175( interest charge from last loan ) .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you accept an offer from a lender, you can’t then go to the Ombudsman – not unless the lender then doesn’t pay you!
This offer from Ferratum – it sounds as though they are just offering to remove the interest from the last loan – is that correct? With only 4 loans that may be an OK offer, but let’s look at the details…
Loans 1,2 and 3 – how much did you borrow on each of them?
What were the “gaps” between the loans, – the time from repaying loan 1 to taking loan 2, from loan 2 to loan 3, and from loan 3 to loan 4?
the last outstanding loan – how much did you borrow? How much have you paid towards it so far? Just those two numbers, ignore the balance and interest added, just what you borrowed and what you have paid to the loan.
Colin says
Can you tell me…… if you have a current loan with Likely Loans (or anybody) and you make a claim/complaint against them for unaffordable/irresponsible lending I understand they put the current repayments on hold. However, what do they record on your credit file whilst this is going on? Anything negative? What shows?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some lenders do put late payment markers on, some don’t. But if you can’t afford to repay the loan, then even if you don’t get the interest removed, you still need an affordable payment arrangement even though it affects your credit record. Having to borrow to repay loans so your credit record isn’t affected is a downward spiral to an impossible place.
Ross says
Hey everyone I’m looking fir some advice! Heard back from 118 118 loans. After getting my SAR I pointed out they were missing 2 credit reports so didn’t do the required checks to give me the loans. I also pointed out that the credit reports they did have for my first 2 loans showed my debt had doubled in the space of 3 months and they still gave me nomore loans. They are telling me that they actually have done the 2 missing checks but due to a technical fault they are unable to find them. They have reduce my outstanding balance from 1800 to 780 due too the technical fault but aren’t admitting any wrong doing on their part. I pointed out numerous other issues with their credit checks and made a good case. This is their offer ( money is already taken off my balance without agreeing) but I don’t know if I should go to the FO with it.
mattg says
Good afternoon all, This website has been so much help along with MSE forum. I have found myself in financial difficulty from using the above lenders and PDL month to month as supplement to the income which was paying the other creditors which then led to vicious and very scary circle. Because of this I was borrowing far more than my means. I am now working with step change to pay the very large ones by doing a DMP. I have sent off emails to Lending stream, Safety net credit, 118 118, wage day advance and advant. Fingers crossed.
I wish I had spoken out sooner about my situation rather than hiding it and acting like everything was ok! – Everything will be ok and there is always light in a dark place.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just checking that you have cancelled the CPAs to SafetyNet Credit and anyone else you still owe money to?
mattg says
Hi Sara,
the only one where a payment is being taken is on behalf of LS, through a debt management company. but i had a couple of other loans with LS which are closed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good. Best of luck with your complaints!
Amy says
Hello,
Sent a subject access request to Varooma asked for all documents including court seal that Bill of Sale had been registered with the court and any properly submitted default notices(which had not previously been sent). Also asked for the matter to be put on hold and not progressed whilst we were questioning the affordability of the loan
Next working day received default notice giving 14 days for full payment. obviously this is within the 8 week obligation to reply. Can they take the car? Can we ask for a payment agreement in the meantime?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, this is effectively a secured loan. You have to carry on making the payments in the meanwhile. If you win the complaint, you can ask for a payment arrangement then and I would expect the lender to agree.
Amy says
We have gone back to them to discuss change in circumstances (OH lost his job). Varooma have now said they are unable to continue with the loan as they have deemed in unaffordable.
It was unaffordable in the first place (OH has pay day loans visible on credit checks, bank accounts in default etc due to gambling addiction) which is what we are challenging but varooma are dragging heels with SAR.
They are now demanding full payment of outstanding loan. The loan amount has been paid back. What is outstanding is the interest and charges. Where do we go from here??
Ian says
Good luck with this one. Varooma are very slow and are not a company that are willing to help. I currently have a complaint with them that is now at the ombudsman for a final review
Jim says
Hi Sarah,
I made a complaint against Everyday Loans earlier this year which they rejected so I sent my complaint to the fos on July 13th. I understand that they are very busy and have phoned for an update on several occasions. They have confirmed that they have all required info but it’s still waiting to be assigned to an investigator. Is five months the norm or does it seem excessive to you?
I knew it would take a while but some idea of timescales would be helpful.
Brilliant website by the way with fantastic information.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Depressingly 5 months seems to be getting to be the norm…
Joseph says
Hi,
I had a loan with 118 118 money for £1000 – at a time when my credit score was extremely bad and had defaults etc etc, but because i cancelled the loan i only had to repay the origional amount borrowed – but at the time it cause me to borrow to repay it and was really stressful, is it worth putting in an affordability complaint even though i didn’t actually pay any intrest? It was my first and only loan from them. I’ve put in a complaint with all the other lenders but this is the only one i’m unusre about. Trying not to be too greedy.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you didn’t repay any interest you won’t get anything back. Who did you borrow from to repay the 118 loan?
DM84 says
Hello,
Just to say a thank you and to add my story to the forum. I submitted 3 separate SAR to Avant, 118 & likely loans about 2 weeks ago. In all honesty I wasnt expecting much. I have heard back from avant within the week, I thought I had the least chance of succeeding with an affordability claim them but received an email from them maybe a week later.
They upheld my complaint and have said:
“We have now completed our review of your complaint which we will be upholding. As a result we will be refunding all interest and charges you paid on the loan”
They have said a customer service rep will be in contact to confirm amount and when this will be processed.
Please could anyone confirm timescales from receiving email to funds reaching their account with Avant?
I will update on 118118 and Likely.
Good luck to all who try.
jameshuk says
Avant say upto 30 days to have money in your account.
I’d heard nothing after 20 days so I hassled them and I got the next day!
DM84 says
Thanks James,
Much appreciated, I will give them a call new year
JOJO says
Hi Sarah
was just wondering if you can give me some advices. I have an irresponsible lending complaint in against Everyday. The loan was for £3K and they have charged over £6K in interest, so total repayable just short of £10K. I was desperate (i know i know) but now I have seen the light getting help for my debt and issuing complaints etc. I am thinking worst case scenario here if they reject my complaint, is there not a cap on how much these companies can charge in interest? Is this a separate issue?
I do continue to pay this albeit on reduced payments as I have defaulted.
Thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unfortunately these leeches do not come under the payday loan cap rules so there is no limit to the amount of interest they can charge.
JOJO says
It wasn’t until I had my light bulb moment and decided to do something about my debt that I realised just how much some of these companies charged me in interest.. Not that the loans were particularly big just the interest. I must have been living in an dream world when I took all these high interest and PDL out, and desperate. Anyway I am now on the road to being debt free, maintaining reduced payments to all (16) creditors and putting in the claims ……..I am the main one to blame for my situation but these companies are also to blame…….Everyday is one I definitely want to win my complaint on…….
thanks for your advice as always,
Jo x
JOJO says
Sarah sorry another question: SNC and Drafty, a rolling line of credit with limits of say £1100 on each.
Drafty borrowed pretty much to limit and paid minimum payment every month, and borrowed again every month. SNC again the same BUT, they took full amount back every month (between £100 and £1200 depending on interest rate that month), as they took over 50% of my wage, every month used up the full credit line again (sometimes the same day or a couple of days after they took the full amount from my bank). What are these loans classed as? Is each time i used the credit classed as 1 loan? Not sure how i should treat these two.
Again, thanks in advance.
x
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Treat them as normal payday loans. SNC are often easier to win as they can see your bank statement every month so they don’t have an excuse for carrying on lending!
JOJO says
I was in dream land when i took all these loans and desperate. I know better now and getting help and on the road to being debt free.
J says
Hi Sara
Happy new year!
I have a complaint with the Ombudsman against On Stride Financial. An adjudicator previously rejected my complaint back in July and I asked it to be referred to an Ombudsman for their investigation. I had previously asked On Stride to note the position and confirm they wouldn’t take any action on my account which has approx £400 outstanding. I then received a Notice of Sum in Arrears and again emailed them in October to ask them to not take any action until I have the outcome from an Ombudsman. Today I got an alert from Experian to say that they have registered a default on my credit record. I have emailed the FO today to advise them and ask whether my complaint has been assigned to an Ombudsman yet however do you think On Stride are within their rights to register a default at this stage? Thanks for your assistance as always.
J
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Notice of Sums In Arrears is a legal requirement that firms are supposed to send.
By reporting the default they are technically correct – you are behind with payments.
Have you asked for a repayment arrangement or not? The cases where FOS gets upset at defaults are usually where someone has offered payments and the lender is refusing to take them – QuickQuid have a bad habit of doing this,
The default will be removed if you win the case.
Jack says
Hi,
Had anyone complained to moneybarn car finance? I bought a car with them back in January 2017! The repayments are £249 a month, I had fallen into arrears last year and am now £900 in arrears and paying £300 a month to cover the car and arrears cost! The over loan is £14,700 on a car that cost £7,500! i Took out a Vanquis credit card whilst paying this to help cover monthly costs etc and have since fallen behind on that too! I am now in a DMP as well as paying rent & my car! I don’t want to lose the car as it is an essential! Am I able to complain about affordability if I am still paying it? I currently get paid £800 a month
£300 goes to money barn,
£35 to phone,
£175 rent,
£86 DMP,
£30 Car insurance,
£10 tax,
£80 petrol,
£50 food,
So overall I am left with £30 a month for anything else that may come up, I’m currently in the process of complaining to a handful of payday lenders too! I just wondered where I would stand on this kind of thing and if it was worth while or not? As I would be paying for the car either way?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t seen any complaints about Moneybarn affordability but your case sounds well worth a try. Follow the template letter above, including asking for a Subject Access Request if they do not uphold your complaint.
Those expenditure figures are not realistic – there is no provision for car servicing, new tyres, clothes, toiletries, prescription or dental costs. And the food amount is too low to be sustainable.
Who is your DMP with? Is the Vanquis card in the DMP?
Dana says
Hi Sara,
After asking for my SAR files from Avant Credit, I got a response from Avant Credit saying they did all the correct checks and have refused my complaint.
Should I just go straight to the FOS before the second email step? Since they said in the email if I’m not happy with the response to go to the FOS?
a week later I received the SAR file from them, so I’m confused whether to attempt the second email step or just go straight to the FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s quite a lot of work to write that second email – but the points in it that matter to you are what needs to go in your complaint to FOS anyway!
I suggest you write the second email and add a bit saying you would like them to reconsider their decision and that you will send it to FOS after a week if they don’t. That gives them a chance to settle this quickly but it won’t delay your FOS complaint much.
Tony says
Hello,
I made a complaint with 118 118 money on 11/11/2018. I believe the 8 week deadline is up with no response. I have tried emailing for an update . Should I send to the FOS now or wait a little bit longer?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you phone 118 Money up and ask why they haven’t responded. Have you had your SAR details from them?
Tony says
Thanks Sara , I had my SAR details and sent the second email. I rang today and they said there is a backlog because of Christmas and bank holidays. They said I will receive the final response within 7 days and they recognise it is late. Should I go to the FOS or wait 7 days?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would probably wait a week – but it’s your choice…
Tony says
Hi Sara,
They have got back back to me upholding last two loans out of 5. I have asked them to include loan 3 also. In your experience , will they respond to this or should I go straight to FOS
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t seen enough people try to negotiate with 118 money to know what they will do. I think it is worth waiting for a reply from them though. Is the last loan outstanding? Have you done the arithmetic on how much their offer is worth? I’m not saying you should accept it but it’s always good to know the numbers!
Tony says
Hi Sara,
Guess it’s a waiting game. The last loan is outstanding. Including the third loan will mean that I don’t end up owing anything and should get. A small refund so I’m definitely going to hold out for it . Even if it does mean going to FOS. Am I right in thinking adjudicators pick these up fairly quickly compared to payday loans?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not as quickly now as a few months ago, but it should still be faster then payday loan complaints.
Tony says
Hi Sara,
They didn’t negotiate and just said they had already responded. Have sent to the FOS and asked to put things on hold with account and set up a £50 arrangement. They said they will not put the account on hold and I received a letter saying I need to pay or they will be forced to escalate to the next level. Is this allowed? Are there not guidelines to say collection activity should stop while the complaint process is ongoing?
Tony says
Hi Sara,
Would really appreciate your thoughts on the above? Are there any guidelines/ guidance?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A lender should not take action to enforce a debt by taking you to court whilst there is a complaint at FOS but collection activity is not enforcement.
If they want to send your debt to a debt collector, just shrug and offer the debt collector £50 a month if that’s what you can afford. Most debt collectors are nicer to deal with than lenders such as 118 Money.
Scott says
Hi,
I had one loan with 118118, Adjudicator found in my favour.
118118 didn’t bother to respond so I am now in a queue for an Ombudsman.
Hoping Ombudsman agrees.
Scott
HH6677 says
Anybody had success with likely loans?
I have sent mine and it seems quite a running trend that the info they send is very limited. My info for my application is only 2 pages long and only really shows salary, credit score and a few bits of personal info such as address etc.
My point is all the info they have sent does not seem detailed at all.
They say they only carrry out a credit score check. Surely this is not responsible lending if they fail to check bank statements, previous credit accounts and defaults etc.
Any information would be great.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Likely loans aren’t a very big lender so there haven’t been many comments about them.
Have they just sent you a number for the credit score? You should go back to them and say you want a copy of the information they were sent by the credit reference agency.
You say it shows your salary – was this from what you put on the application? Were you asked about your expenses at that time?
HH6677 says
Thank you Sara,
Yes you are correct they just sent a number for my credit check with no info. My Salary I assusme is the one I put on my application but it looks high, as though its pre-tax rather than after tax deductions.
I cant rememeber what I put at the time and they have not sent me this in my SAR. I will request missing information but it seems like they have sent me hardly anything useful at all.
I have sent them my credit report/bank statments in my follow up email which shows 2 loans taken out in the 6 months prior with one being topped up.
Time to play the waiting game. I have a few weeks left until 8 weeks is up.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back to them and be very specific. You want a copy of your application and a copy of the details of the information they got from credit reference agencies and and other checks they made on your application. If you spoke to them on the phone before you Liam was approved you also want a recording if that phone call.
You need this information to put in a good complaint to FOS so ask for it now.
HH6677 says
Thank you Sara,
I have requested that information now.
HH6677 says
Likely Loans Response:
“In relation to full details of your application including income and expenditure, I refer you to your application, sent within the zipped SAR pack entitled Application ***********.
Expenditure and existing credit detail data is extracted from credit reference agency data and is supplied by the credit reference agencies, a copy of this would need to be obtained directly from them. Your credit file will show six years’ worth of data and you would be able to see your financial position at the time of your application.
In relation to call recordings, please find these attached in a password protected zipped file, the password will be sent in a separate email”.
The application they refer to is 2 A4 pages which details address details, personal info, Annual income figure, credit score as a number and loan deatils. That is it.
I would have thought that they will have requested outgoings such as rent etc.
Would you advise sending a further email Sara? highlighting that they have failed to provide income and expenditure?
My phone calls showed nothing from application stage as i believe it was all done online now.
Regards.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to them and say you are asking them to provide you with a copy of the personal information that they hold about you. Say they are the data controller for this data and you want to see exactly what they were sent by xxxxx(do you know which credit reference agency they used?). Say that xxxxx cannot provide you with this information as they do not retain historic snapshots. Add that if they do not do this, you will be making a complaint to the ICO about their failure to provide this information as well as including this in your FOS complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also say you want a copy of your loan application (unless they have sent this?)
Lou7 says
Hi all,
Has anyone had any dealings with Avant credit. The adjudicator came back and agreed with me that both loans should not have been given, they have 2 weeks to respond. Do they usually agree with the adjudicator or not respond at all? Any information would be greatly appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry I haven’t seen enough decisions at this point to be able to say.
Dana says
I’ve just sent my complaint to the FOS as Avant flat out refused my complaint without sending me my SAR files first.
How long did it take for the FOS to come to a decision for you? I’m wondering if the larger loans are dealt quicker than payday loans?
Jim says
Hi Dana,
I submitted my Everyday loans complaint to the fos in July and I’m still waiting to be assigned an investigator after six months. It seems that there has been a massive increase in high cost loan complaints in the last year according to their quarterly stats.
I phoned yesterday and a very helpful lady is trying to find out how much longer I can be expected to wait for a decision.
I’ll post any updates.
Lou7 says
Hi Dana
My complaint went in to FOS in May and it was picked up September but I didn’t have a decision from the adjudicator till last week. But Avant agree with the second loan complaint but not the first.
Jade says
Hi
I had an everyday loans from 10 years ago
It was for 1800 originally but the staff persuadded me to take a higher amount down the line to cover the original
In total with interest it was about 8000
They would ring me constantly
Then they started to ring my work
And the ladies started turning up at my work place and browse and say hello as though to intimidate me
This was whe I was 18 or 19 and looking back now I can not believe the pressure they put me in
This would never be allowed now
How likely will I get a case?
I have no statements from bank because it was so long ago?
I have requested a copy of my loans with them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the loan was topped up? When were these top ups? I think you will have a lot of difficulty with a complaint if they were all more than 6 years ago.
JOJO says
Hi having issues, this time with Everyday Loans (having issues with most of them at the moment)! anyway complaint not upheld as they say my loan was affordable according to them. Going to send off to the FOS. One question I asked them as part of the SAR is for a copy of their calculations on how they arrived at the rate of interest their underwriter decided to charge me. They have returned advising this is sensitive information and cannot disclose. I advised that i am not asking for their sensitive information but their calculations on how they arrived at their charged interest rate (over £6K interest on £3K loan) surely if they underwrite based on my personal data then i am obliged to see my calculations as part of my personal data. Or am i barking up the wrong tree here?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Wrong tree I think. Setting the interest rate is very likely to be seen as commercially sensitive information. It won’t help you anyway with an affordability complaint – there you have to show that you can’t afford £124 a month, or whatever the repayments were – it doesn’t make much difference how those were arrived at.
Franck says
Hi Sarah
I have a loan with Every Day Loans
few weeks ago i had 645£ left to pay never miss a payments and i had a 3 loans with them.
i pay off 445£ and now i refuse to pay any more and escalate a complaint and request for my interest and PPI’S to be refunded.
i also encounter harassment and Every Day Loans also have taken a payment on my Credit card with out my consent and when i complain the day after refund me ,is that allow ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was there any PPI on Everyday loans? Everyday loan should not have harrassed you if you said you couldn’t pay. It sounds as though they made a mistake in taking a payment from your credit card.
Franck says
Hi Sara ,
I ask them about PPI’s in case but i want some kind of refund from them i wont let them get away .
Taking money from your Debit card with out your consent on that date is that consider has a offence?
Should i report them ?
Anyway im waiting for a reply but i received a rude letter from them today stating that they receive my payment of 445 £ on my loan amount 645£ and they say in letter that if i want to pay off the loan before the end October 19 the amout i have to is 214£ 😁 i think I’m going to keep them wait ….or what should I do?
Thanks Sara 👍
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, just make sure if you get rejected and send your case to the ombudsman that you don’t mention PPI unless you are sure it was added – otherwise your complaint will go to the PPI teal and take a very long while to come back and be rejected!
“Taking money from your Debit card with out your consent on that date is that consider has a offence?” You said a credit card before – which was it? Had you specifically told them you could not afford to make the payment? How long before it was taken?
Can you afford to pay the last instalment or would you need to borrow to pay that? If you can afford, it’s usually better to repay it – you can still carry on with your affordability complaint and ask for a refund of the interest you paid.
Franck says
Hi Sara
I just received today my statements for the 3 loans from EveryDay Lending
Loan 1 borrow £1250 interest pay £1171.46 left to pay 0 Insurance £180 ,paying on the statement a initial payment of £3.87 every month and last payment £5.63
Loan 2 borrow £2500 interest pay £1881.43 left to pay 0 Insurance £301.40 first payment £12.64 last payment 0.15p
,Loan 3 borrow £2300 interest pay £2026.06 left to pay £200.41 in this one no Insurance !?
Could you please confirm if the Insurance are the PPI’S ? and for the payment taken on my Debit Card I call Everyday Loans and they agreed on the phone to change the date of payment but still not follow the procedure and decided to take the payment on the wrong date ,they say it was a common mistake ? what ??
Ok Sara Many thanks again for your help and I will take this further with them hey harass me so much lately when I was in difficulties ,I never hardly miss a payment with them since 2013.
Have a great week end !
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know what the Insurances are, the numbers look low for PPI. You need to ask EL what the insurance was and what benefit it was to you – then you can complain if you don’t think you ever have claimed on it.
I think if you asked EL to change a payment date and they didn’t but then corrected it, this isn’t worth complaining about. mistakes happen and it was resolved quickly. But if it happened several times, that is different!
Ross says
Hey Sara I have a question!
I heard back off 118118 loans with a pretty poor offer. They are giving me a refund off my outstanding balance for 1 loan (out of 4) only due to the fact they can’t find my credit check that they apparently ran. All the other loans they argued back saying they spoke with me over the phone before every loan was issued and on the contracts I signed they pointed out that I agreed to all the information I provided was true and accurate etc. So they are going down the I must of lied about my details route. They mentioned nothing about the external credit checks they made or anything, just that I had signed the agreement and they spoke to me over the phone to confirm everything was ok before issuing the loan. Now my question!! Is there a section on the FCA Conc that states that companies need to use all information around them and not just go off the word of the client? They ran credit checks and had all my missed payment details, increasing debt etc but they took my word over all of that. Is there a section that state they need to use all information provided to make a decision on an application? Thank you!!
Ross
Sara (Debt Camel) says
CONC 5.2A.36R A firm must not accept an application for credit under a regulated credit agreement where the firm knows or has reasonable cause to suspect that the customer has not been truthful in completing the application in relation to information relevant to the creditworthiness assessment.
So what you need to do is point out inconsistencies between what you said in each your application and what an external credit check showed at that point – typically that you missed off some of your debts. This why you need that detailed SAR with copies of all the credit checks they ran, your loan and top up applications and phone recording. This is the data to construct your case from.
Discrepancies have to be significant. If you said a loan repayment was £65 a month and it was actually £85, that isn’t a big difference, but if it was £185 that is.
If you said in your original loan application that you wanted the money to consolidate some debts but at the next top up those debts were still there – that is big discrepancy they should have been concerned about.
They should also have looked at how your financial position was changing. If you were declaring more income each time or lower expenses, was this plausible or should they have asked for proof eg payslips or bank statements?
If your debts had increased from the previous loan or top-up, but your disposable income that they calculated was large, they should have considered if there was something they didn’t know about.
Max says
Hi Sara. I had a loan with Raphael Bank for 3500 pounds, 36 installments of 130.14 started in November of 2014, totaling 4685.04 (1185.04 interest). We had paid as well like 200 pounds of late fee’s.
I claim for the irresponsible lending, and they agree on were wrong procedures, but the only offer to pay me back only the late fee’s plus interest, which 254.00 pounds.
Should I accept the offer?
Should they pay me back the interest as well? (1185.04 interest)
Thanks.
Max
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“they agree on were wrong procedures” what did they say?
Max says
They wrote to me the following:
“Following your complain about inadequate affordability checks being undertaken when the account was opened, we now have conducted a full review of the information held and are upholding this complaint. While the bank undertook affordability checks, these could have been more robust to ensure the affordability of the agreement.”
thanks.
Max
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This depends how strong you think your case is? Do you really think they should have known from the start that you wouldn’t be able to afford the repayments?
If yes, you could reply that if they had completed better checks they would have seen that the loan was not affordable for you. Would a copy of your Noddle credit record show you had lots of outstanding debt at that time? recent defaults or missed payments? If it would send a copy to them. Point out that the usual award by the Financial Ombudsman for irresponsible lending is for you to get a refund of all the interest and charges you paid and that is what you would like of you will be taking the case to the ombudsman.
Max says
Hi Sara. I that time (24 nov 2014) I had 3 loans with provident, paying about 240 per month.
I have another loan with avantcredit: 1300 pounds starting 19/11/2014.
And my payday loans were the following:
1 october 650 wonga.
8 october 200 myjar.
27 october 300 myjar.
27 october 385 mywagedayadvance
19 November 125 sunny.
thanks.
Max.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a lot of borrowing. I suggest reply to them as I suggested.
Bill says
Hi Sarah, finally received a phone call from the adjudicator, he gave me the decision not to uphold the two loans with likely loans, as he agreed with them that they did the correct affordability checks, I was taken back as I provided the bank statements and credit file to support I had taken the first loan to pay off six payday lenders..the second loan of a further £1000 also shows on my bank statements was to pay of mr lender and sunny loans, in between the two loans there’s is evidence to show I was placing bets on betting site! He’s asked me to reply if I don’t agree by email which I gave just done, but will it go to the ombudsman eventually if he doesn’t agree with my reply?
Bill
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you say the purpose of the first loan was to pay off payday loans? And is that what you did with the money? Would the Likely loan then have been affordable if you had paid off those payday loans?
Bill says
Hi sarah, thanks for responding, I didn’t tell likely loans the loan was to consolidate or to pay off debts, just the to say upon application it was for home improvements, aduicator made it very clear to me I paid the first loan without missing or late payments and in his judgement having take out the second loan would be affordable thus likely loans agreeing to give me a second loan of another £1000 12 months after the first!
It is very clear on both loans after the funds went into my account, payments immediately came out of my account and paid off mr lender and likely loans,
Ps I can copy and paste the adjucators email if that helps?
Bill
Stuart says
Initial email sent to Avant on 18/01 notifing them of potential complaint and DSAR using the template provided on the article.
Response received 21/01 with the following –
“Thank you for submitting a Data Subject Access Request to AvantCredit UK on 18th January 2019
I can confirm that we have passed your request to the relevant department internally and we will contact you shortly with the information that you have requested”
From poster experiences with Avant, how long before they send DSAR info, by email or by post, and do they normally review my concerns before I have submitted full details of the complaint?
DM84 says
Hi Stuart,
I sent mine on the 9th of December and recieved the SAR info on the 21st. I also received an email the very same day (21st Dec) saying they had upheld my complaint so I did not need the SAR details as they agreed with me.
Stuart says
Hi DM84
Avant responded today rejecting my complaint. I kindly made them aware that I have still to submit a full complaint and that I’m still waiting on the DSAR.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Stuart, just send the complaint to the ombudsman now. When you get the SAR information, you can add more details to the complaint.
HH6677 says
Hi Sara,
I feel likely loans are being evasive now with my queries. They have sent me the following:
“The income details were taken from the application form you completed (a copy of which has been provided). I can also confirm that all applications are subject to affordability and credit worthiness assessments, as this is sensitive business information, we are unable to provide you with the details of this. I can however confirm that we did conduct a credit check on your application but we do not retain the credit reference report as we use the data as part of our internal scorecard, the details of your credit report would need to be obtained from a credit reference agency and this will show your financial position at the time you applied with us as the report shows six years’ of data”.
The copy of the application is pretty poor. No outgoings at all just a salary figure and the loan amount in terms of figures, no more.
I did not send them a bank statement intitially for the loan but I did send them a copy of it in my follow up email to my DSAR. They have since returned in extra SAR and suddenly the same bank statement has been included. I hope they are not trying to pass this off as a bank statement used at application stages because that never happened.
I still have not had my final response but there is something I hope you could help me with please? I will take this all the way to the FOS if i have to, but I am more concerned over the hugely negative effect it had on my credit report when I lost my Job. It reduced over 50% of my score by making an arrangement to pay, even though this was in advance. I am not interested in getting a refund of the interest paid if I could get likely to agree to remove the loan from my credit file and in return, I drop the affordability complaint. Is this something I could raise to them without it sounding like a threat?
Thanks again for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that you are entitled under GDPR to see the information about you that is recorded in their scorecard as otherwise you have no way of telling if that information is correct or not. Say that you will report them to the ICO if they do not send you this information.
The fact that LL have not retained the information from the CRA (was it CallCredit?) will generally tend to help you with a complaint to FOS. You can prove from your credit report they would have seen 2 loans taken out in the 6 months prior with one being topped up. If this did not match with what you put on your application OR if the repayments meant their loan was unaffordable then that helps your case.
BUT if the only reason you got into financial difficulty was because you lost your job after taking out this Likely Loan, you probably won’t win your case. The loan has to have been unaffordable when it was given, not later.
LL should not agree to change your credit record if you drop your complaint. They report to credit record agencies on condition that their reports are honest – they are not meant to fudge them unless there is a very good reason eg you win an affordability complaint.
HH6677 says
Thanks Sara,
They have not provided which credit reference agency they used. They have only provided a 3 digit number and nothing else.
I still think the loan was unaffordable and they did not carry out the checks so I will go ahead with the complaint. Losing my job wasn’t the issue, it was unaffordable before that.
It still bothers me though how they reported missed payments on my account after a six month payment plan of 1 pound. They then proceeded to take the full contractual amounts and reported them all as missed payments because I never called after the 6 month payment plan to make another arrangement. I had made 4 full conractual payments on the account that all went down as missed payments. I couldn’t believe it. That is a separate issue though that I have already sent to the ombudsman.
I have already threatened to send info to ICO if they will not provide the CRA info but will try again one more time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Re the other complain, they should have contacted you before reverting to taking full payments. It was unfair if them not to as they knew you been in trouble. And they cannot record missed payments if you had made them! But this may not end with a good result for you as after 6 months of token payments they were entitled to add a default to your credit record.
HH6677 says
Yes Sara, this is a really tough pill for me to swallow. I made them aware well in advance that I had lost my job and eventually would be unable to keep up with payments. They agreed to a payment plan but said that this would reflect on my credit report and it did for one month then the following 5 moths were marked down as paid even though it was for the token payments. They then took 4 more payments after this. I made an assumption that as they now had reverted my payments back to original monthly amount that I had just gone back to paying the loan as normal. This was not the case they reported 4 missed payments and said it was because I never called to setup another payment plan. I was annoyed to say the least. I setup another payment plan for 6 months for the same amount and forgot to ring back after 6 months to arrange another. They then again started reporting missed payments even though they were taking the full contractual amount. The issue is with an adjudicator now. Likely were like a closed book. There was no point in being upfornt about my circumstances, it looks as though I missed payments on purpose.
6 payments of 1 pound are okay but 6 payments of £273 are now down as missed and battered my credit rating. i am hoping the FOS can see common sense.