The repayments on many loans from bad credit lenders are too high to be manageable so people get deeper into debt trying to repay them.
If you have an unaffordable loan, you can complain and ask for interest to be removed from your balance. If the loan has been settled, you can ask for a refund of the interest you paid.
This article describes how to complain, with templates. It is a variation on the standard approach for payday loan refunds – this works better where the loans are very large, longer-term and you only had 1 or 2 loans, possibly with top ups.
NB the complaints here are for “normal” unsecured loans. You can also use this approach for logbook loans.
There is a separate page for HP/PCP car finance affordability complaints. If you have a guarantor loan, read Refunds from guarantor loans as it’s very different, and the guarantor may be able to complain as well.
Contents
Like payday loan refunds – but you can get a refund for just one loan
A lender should have checked when you applied that a loan is affordable for you. The regulator says “affordable” means:
you can make the repayments without hardship or having to borrow elsewhere.
This is the same test as for payday loan refunds. It applies to most forms of credit, including large, long term loans and logbook loans.
The payday loan refund template letter has got tens of thousands of people refunds. That letter emphasises the problems that repeat borrowing caused. Because payday loans are usually small, it’s hard to get a refund if you only had one or two payday loans.
That sounds like bad news for these complaints about large loans, where you normally only have one loan plus possibly a top up or two…
But the good news is that because these loans are larger and longer-term, the lender should have made better checks before giving you the first loan!
So the letter here is for large loans.
Making a complaint and asking for a refund
Email addresses for lenders
It’s easiest if all communications are by email – free, instant and you have a copy with a date stamp to show the ombudsman. So here are the email addresses to use for the main bad credit, large loan lenders. There are a lot of small lenders including Credit Unions – if your lender is not listed you can still complain, look at the lender’s website to find how.
Anico complaints@anicofinancialservices.com
Avant Credit emailcomplaints@avantcredit.co.uk
Bamboo Loans complaints@bambooloans.com
Everyday Loans complaints@everyday-loans.co.uk
Likely Loans loans@likelyloans.com
LiveLend sean@chetwood.co
Loans 2 Go ps@loans2go.co.uk – also read Loans2Go’s interest rate – “outrageous” – how to complain
Moolr admin@moolr.co.uk
MyJar (in administration but you can still send in complaints) generalcomplaints@myjar.com
Progressive Money complaints@progressivemoney.co.uk
Quick Loans customerscare@quickloans.co.uk
Satsuma onlinecustomercare@satsuma-loans.co.uk
Savvy info@savvy.co.uk
Vanquis customer.relations@vanquisbank.co.uk
1st Stop customerservices@1ststop.co.uk
118 118 Money complaints@118118money.com
Here are some logbook lenders and bad credit card finance lenders:
Advanatge complaints@advantage-finance.co.uk
CarCashPoint complaints@carcashpoint.com
CarFinance247 customercare@carfinance247.co.uk
First Response johnf@frfl.co.uk
LoanOnYourCar customerservice@loanonyourcar.com
Loans 2 Go ps@loans2go.co.uk
Mobile Money complaints@mobilemoney.co.uk
Moneybarn complaints@moneybarn.com
MoneyWay complaints@securetrustbank.co.uk
Motor Kitty customercare@motorkitty.co.uk
Ramsdens (logbook loans) customerservices@ramsdensforcash.co.uk
Varooma complaints@varooma.com
If your loan has been sold to a debt collector, you send your complaint to the original lender.
I have included a couple of payday lenders there – Myjar and Satsuma – because they often give very large loans. If you borrowed a lot from those lenders, use the main payday loan refund letter. But if you just had one or two big loans, use the letters on this page.
For guarantor loans, there is a different approach – see guarantor loan complaints by the borrower and guarantor loan complaints by the guarantor for details.
Start the complaint – ask for personal information & get your credit record.
Get a copy of your current credit report saved immediately. You can get one from TransUnion. Do this first thing as lenders may later change the information on there, so you want a full one saved to show the Ombudsman later if necessary.
Then email the lender and begin your complaint. Put AFFORDABILITY COMPLAINT as the subject of your email.
You probably already know when you took out the loan and any top-ups. But it’s good to ask the lender to send you a copy of all the personal information they have about you. This will give you a lot of information that can be useful later if you have to send the complaint to the ombudsman, so ask for it right at the beginning.
Sample email:
I am asking you to refund the interest and any charges I paid, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
I attach copies of my bank statements and credit report from the time I applied for this loan/these loans. [delete if you don’t yet have them, but they will help your case if you do.]
Add extra information if you want – see below for some ideas – you don’t have to do this.
I am also making a Subject Access Request (SAR) for all the personal information you hold about me including, but not limited to, my applications, all credit and other affordability checks, a statement of account for my borrowing, and a record of all phone calls.
SARs are often sent out by post, make sure the lender has your new address if you have moved!
If you want an affordable payment arrangement now, add a sentence to the complaint saying this:
- this is often a good idea as these complaints can take a long while to sort out so a payment arrangement gets your finances into a safe place while this gets sorted
- a payment arrangement shows on your credit record, but if you win the complaint all negative marks will be deleted
- talk to a debt adviser such as National Debtline if you want to know more about payments arrangements
- a payment arrangement for a logbook loan will put your car at risk, so you may have to keep paying this.
While you are waiting for the lender’s reply, try to get copies of your bank statements from 3 months before a loan to three months afterwards.
Also read Lender says I lied. That looks at the various reasons why your application may not have been accurate. People have won complaints where they lied because they were desperate but there are other reasons too, so think what (if any) may have applied to you.
Other details you can add if you want
The template above is fine, you don’t have to add a lot more details. I am not even sure some lenders read what you write.
It is better to write a short complaint summarising your problems than send pages telling the lender stuff they already know. For example the lender doesn’t need a list of your loans.
But if you want you can include extra points in the initial complaint above. Or send the lender another email afterwards to add to your case.
When you have the SAR back from the lender, you can look for things that the lender knew but chose to ignore or didn’t ask about. See How Subject Access Request information can help an affordability complaint which has details about what to look for.
Here are some points that may apply to your case:
- my bank statements and credit record (attached) show that I was unable to afford the loan repayments.
- This was a large loan, you knew I had poor credit and may have been in a difficult position so you should have tried to verify details. If you had done this, you would have rejected my application.
- My bank statement would have shown that I was spending more than the application said. You should have noticed that some figures were too low or missing, for example from my application : x,y,z, car costs, TV licence, opticians and dental costs, presents, clothes, school uniforms.
- During a telephone call, your agent talked me into agreeing that some figures should be lower in order to get my application accepted.
- I didn’t include payday loans as credit commitments on my application as I thought that was for long term credit, but you could see I had several from my credit record.
- you made deductions straight from salary/had my child benefit paid to you which has caused me difficulty when I have needed to ask for a payment arrangement.
And points about top-ups:
- a credit check would have shown that my finances had got worse since the first loan
- you didn’t ask if my income or expenses had changed, and they had.
- you didn’t ask for bank statements so you could check if the new repayments were affordable.
- I had said the first loan was to consolidate debt, but you should have seen that this hadn’t happened.
- you increased my interest rate, showing you realised I was in a more difficult position but you did not check whether I could actually afford the new repayments.
The lender replies – go to the Ombudsman if a poor offer
You should get a response from the lender within 8 weeks. If you don’t, phone them up and ask when you will get it – a couple of days is worth waiting for but many responses are rejections, so don’t wait weeks for one, go to the Ombudsman straight away.
Don’t be put off by a rejection! Or if the lender saying it was your fault because your loan application wasn’t accurate. Sometimes a lender will send a long, complicated reply designed to make you look as though you should give up.
Lenders are obliged to do checks. For one small payday loan, these checks could have been brief. But for your large loan, the lender should have made sure they knew enough to be confident you could afford it, even if was your first loan from them. If they didn’t, send your case to the Ombudsman.
I suggest you rely on your gut feel – if you know repaying the loan caused you a lot of problems then it is worth sending the case to be looked at by the Ombudsman.
If you aren’t sure, ask what other people think in the Comments below this article. You only have 6 months to send the complaint to FOS, so it’s best to do this as oon as possible.
It isn’t usually worth trying to negotiate with these lenders, you are just wasting your time – one exception is Bamboo.
Send to Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)
It’s easy! I suggest you use the “do it online” option to send a complaint to the Ombudsman. It asks you for all the details they need.
The main part of your complaint can be a version of what you sent the lender in your complait. Add any more details you want, including pointing out if you think there are errors in the lender’s reply. Also attach:
- the reply from the lender
- Trans Union statutory credit record
- bank statements starting 3 months before first loan.
Your complaint will first be looked at by an adjudicator. If either you or the lender rejects the adjudicator’s decision, it will then be looked at by an Ombudsman.
“What about a bank loan?”
The affordability test is the same – could you repay the loan without getting deeper into debt elsewhere. But the interest rates are lower than “bad credit lenders” so it’s harder to show that the smaller repayments are unaffordable – unless the loan was very large.
So it can be harder to win a case involving a typical bank loan, especially if your credit record was OK. But if you know the loan was unaffordable then give it a go and use the template letter here.
These affordability complaints do not apply to secured loans or mortgages. If you have a priblem with one of these, talk to your local Citizens Advice.
Need some help?
If you need help to complain, go to your local Citizens Advice, they will help for free.
Don’t use a claims management company. They are expensive and often incompetent. And if you still owe money, then you may just get the interest removed so you owe less… which is great, but you don’t want to have to pay a claims company in cash when you never had a cash refund to pay it from.
Can you get a refund from Provident?
Is a card or catalogue limit too high?
Examples of gambling & payday loan refunds
Charlie says
I have put in a few complaints recently, one being with Bamboo loans where they have agreed to take off £500 of my loan, which I am happy about. another complaint was against Likely Loans. I am with stepchange now because my debts got out of control, likely loans have reject my complaint basically saying they didn’t lend irresponsibly etc. this complaint was 3 years ago, which at the time I was in a bad place so I gave up a didn’t follow it up. I have now sent another complaint which they have refused because I have already made a complaint and they have already looked into and have said it is too late to go the Ombudsman. I took out a loan of 3,500 and which has gone to Stepchange now, however they are telling I have to pay the interest as well which means I had to pay 7431. obviously payments have been made through stepchange and it has decreased by a few hundred, but just wondering what I would need to do next to help with this. I feel like I am paying far too much for a loan that caused a lot of financial difficulty
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can’t make the same complaint twice. It is a shame you did not go to the Ombudsman three years ago.
So do you have any other reason to complain?
When you took the loan out, how much did you borrow and how much interest was there going to be on the loan? How much have you paid to it in total, to LL direct then through StepChange? If you don’t know this last figure, StaepChange will be able to tell you or you may be able to see it on a loan statement online?
Dave R says
Not sure if this is the right section Sara. Query about several loans with Lloyds Bank.
I borrowed £1000 3 times in close succession. At a time where they were often also extending my overdraft and I also had a lot of pay day loans coming in and out of my account at the time.
May 2014 – £1000 borrowed, repaid June 2015
July 2015 – £1000 borrowed, repaid January 2016
March 2016 – £1000 borrowed, repaid October 2017
Is it worth filing an affordability complaint and am I still able to do so?
I also have a complaint about Lloyds with the FOS at the moment. They increased my overdraft from £2,300 to £5,000 in 12 months. Am I still able to complaint about a separate issue whilst this is ongoing?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you can complain about a separate issue – I think its probably worth it because there are 3 loans in quick succession AND they should have noted your overdraft was being extemded.
If Lloyds reject it and it goes to FOS, you could ask FOS if it would like to look at both complaints at the same time
Dave R says
Brilliant, thanks Sara.
Overdraft complaint has been with FOS since December 2020 and still not got a case handler. Am told they are taking complaints about overdrafts and banks “very seriously” and “fast-tracking” them according to a chap I spoke with about a month ago when chasing… Can see this dragging on and on…
PH says
Afternoon everyone
Really sorry to ask again, as I know it’s been answered before.
Does anyone have any experience with settlements with Everyday Loans? The FOS have found them to have lent to me irresponsibly, and to my amazement, they have agreed with the adjudicator and will be settling the account by repaying the interest paid.
I had a £5,500 loan and have paid back £11,369.45 since Nov 18 – a direct settlement should be £5,860.45 before any interest so absolutely fantastic.
My query is for anyone that has had a settlement – did they take the full 4 weeks to process, or did they do it sooner? I have received verbal confirmation from EDL that my redress is in the queue to be processed (since they accepted on April 1st) and also been told that they process all payments on a Wednesday. I’m hoping that by April 28th or May 5th this is sorted, but would welcome anyone’s comments on if they had been sorted earlier. I’m yet to receive the email outlining the settlement amount from EDL
Linds says
I’m waiting for my settlement letter from them at the moment also, the final decision via FOS was accepted by me on 22nd March (but I think the FOS have not processed it properly until the 8th April :(
I have tried to get in touch with EDL but all they have said and they’ve told me I will get the settlement letter within 4 weeks. My refund is also in the region of £5-6k
I have found them to be slow and difficult to deal with and I must say I’m still worried I’m not actually going to get the refund.
But I have seen on here that others have been paid within a couple of weeks of decisions.
Hope you get your refund soon!
Nick says
Yes I’m currently in a similar position, EDL have done their own review and have stated that they were wrong to have given me 2 loans in such a short period of time where if they’d done their proper checks they would have seen that I was also paying off several payday loans and the repayments were going to be difficult.
I have paid off the first loan but still owe on the 2nd and with all the information they provided they stated that I’d paid back just over £3k over the 2 loans and were asking me to pay back the remaining balance which was is roughly £700, I countered and stated, with proof and evidence that they offered zero support or help once I got into financial trouble I decided to go for the DMP in which they have been receiving just shy of £100 a month. I requested that they pay back the monies I’d already paid them as fair compensation but they simply refuse and state the FOS will find in their favour and that me continuing with my complaint with the FOS is a mistake and I’ll get nothing and they’ll agree with EDL. Can anybody tell me if the FOS will agree with me in this matter and help me to recover the £3K I’ve already paid back?
massive congratulations on getting a positive decision from the FOS, how long did you have to wait in total for an adjudicator to be appointed to your claim and how long did they take to report back their findings? I’m into the 7th month of waiting now.
PH says
So I sent mine to to EDL last Feb. They didn’t even acknowledge I had sent a complaint until I asked the FOS to look at it. The FOS were sent the complaint in April, but weirdly didn’t acknowledge receipt of it until I chased it in maybe August. They said to ring back every 4 weeks to push them on it.
I didn’t get an adjudicator until February and they made the decision very quickly (less than 2 weeks, but only due to the length of time I had already waited).
EDL were given 2 weeks to respond, but didn’t and when I chased the adjudicator, they told me that they were typically answering within 4 weeks. Right on the last day of the 4th week, they responded saying they would accept the decision.
Im not counting my eggs before they hatch either, as EDL have been useless in responding, but when I rang their central complaint number, the lady confirmed she could see my complaint had been accepted and that it was queued to be redressed. She said it would take up to 4 weeks – I don’t know whether that was 4 weeks to send out the redress calculation or 4 weeks to finally settle, but hopefully by the 5th May, I’ll be completely finished. Fingers crossed. I’ll keep you up to date.
Yvette says
Hi has anyone recently had the company not respond to the adjudicator at the FOS and then gone on to the ombudsmen?
If so do you remember how long that took?
Thanks x
Lorainne says
How do you know they have not responded? Did the email say they had to respond? Sometimes they say if you agree respond or it will go further. I had this with Amigo.
Yvette says
The adjudicator emailed me past the cut off time on Friday and said they had not replied. Therefore it was now being passed to an ombudsman, they responded twice before this. And were warned if no final conclby close of business Friday it will go to the ombudsmen.
They kept asking the same questions to the adjudicator and they were always answered. Therefore potentially stalling.
I wonder what would happen if the lady dealing with it at Varooma was off sick if it would still go to ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think Varooma have more than one person in their complaints department! If V had asked for an extra couple of weeks, the Ombudsman would have allowed that – but in the end FOS has to treat no reponse as a rejection and move the case on, or it would never finish,
Yvette says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for your reply. Here was one specific lady dwlaing with it. What I meant was if there is suddenly an agreement for example on Monday, despite it now going to the ombudsman from the adjudicator would that be accepted if I agrees. Or does it have to go through the ombudsman to be published?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh that won’t be a problem. If the lender agrees to accept the adjudicator offer, it’s settled, no need for an Ombudsman to spend the time looking at it. This does happen sometimes.
Linds says
Hi Sara, if you have a final legally binding decision from the FOS (agreed on 22nd march) and the company goes into administration before they have paid you, do you become a priority creditor or do you miss out?
EDL taking their time to confirm the settlement amount & pay out – it’s making me nervous…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unfortunately, you would not become a priority creditor.
Linds says
Thanks Sara. Will just have to keep hoping they do pay out & nothing goes wrong 🤞
PH says
Sara,
Can I ask you the following two questions (I know this isn’t officially advice, but some input would be appreciated)
1. Is there any indication that EDL may be struggling? They’re still lending and their 2019 accounts look OK.
2. If they try and enter a scheme of arrangement, would they be allowed to put cases that they have agreed to into the scheme?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1. I doubt they are comfortable, but I haven’t heard they are about to go under.
2. Both Amigo & Provident have paid out in full on cases they have already made an offer on, already accepted a FOS decision or had a FOS Ombudsman final decision on.
Tom says
hi,
have satsuma gone into administration? I put in an affordability complaint in the first week of Feb for an outstanding loan I have with them. They emailed me March 5th saying they were still looking into my complaint and would get back to me within 28 days, this come and went without receiving another email. Now today they have emailed saying the following below. I dont know what to do, should I open a case at the ombudsman or just wait for satsuma to get back to me? its quite a vague email response. I was hoping to get this sorted ASAP to get the default removed from my credit file, its a real pain
“We are sorry that we have been unable to resolve your complaint at this time.
Please be assured this matter is receiving our urgent attention. We have set out below an update on the steps that we are taking to deal with your complaint and the timeline within which we expect to be able to resolve your complaint.
Next steps
You have already submitted a complaint to us before the Scheme was announced on 15 March 2021. If the Scheme is approved you will NOT need to resubmit your claim in the Scheme. Your claim will be automatically entered into the Scheme and it will be reviewed to see if you are eligible for compensation. We may ask for further information from you during the Scheme process in order to decide if you are due compensation.”
Maria says
Hi I received the same email from satsuma my complaint was with the FOS. I’m not sure if I need to do anything else.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Satsuma is part of the provident group. It hasn’t gone into administration but it is proposing a “Scheme” to pay people a lot lower refunds – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/provident-satsuma-scheme/ and please ask furure questions on that page.
Provident has used as an illustration what might happen if it pay people 10% of their proper claim value. That’s bad, but I am worried it may be more like 2%, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/provident-scheme-tiny-refunds/
There is nothing you need to do now UNLESS you are still making payments, which you should consider stopping.
The Ombudsman will not take on any new Satsuma cases and isn’t progressing the ones it currently has.
These Schemes almost always get passed at the first court hearing on 22 April, at that point customers can vote on the Scheme. Come back here then?
Elizabeth says
Hi Sara,
I sent my affordability complaint about log book loans to the Financial Ombudsman. They have awarded in my favour. Log book loans are in liquidation and the liquidators Nine Regions are dealing with my settlement.
Yesterday the FOS emailed me the below email.I have completed the debt form and now waiting to hear in the meantime I just wondered how much do you think I can expect to receive. Many thanks Liz
This is the email –
My colleague has calculated the total redress due.
Please find below details.
Total interest and payments made including the sale of the car £13,467.04
Plus total interest due for yesterdays date- £11,774.08 minus tax of £2,234.82
Total amount as of yesterdays date- £22,886.30.
The liquidators have asked you to complete the claim form before they can confirm what you can receive.
Please complete the form putting the amount of £22,886.30 and send it to me so I can send it to the liquidators.
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Elizabeth, someone here has said they are paying out 1.77p in the pound. On that large refund, I am afraid you would get about £400 back.
Liz Andrews says
Thank you for letting me know.
Also, many thanks for your website, I used all your advice and templates, it’s taken 14 months from my first email to log book loans and even though £400 is a tiny fraction of the total settlement amount it’s better than nothing and much needed at the moment, thank you again.
Wendy says
I was wondering how long people are waiting to be picked up by an adjudicator (my case is with 118118) thanks I have been waiting for about 7 months
Thanks for a helpful site
Nick says
Likewise, had my complaint with the FOS for 7months, been told to keep calling every few weeks. I think the more proof of evidence that you have on your claim whilst waiting for an adjudicator to pick up your case the quicker they’ll try to process and progress your claims due to your wait
Wendy says
Thanks Nick hopefully we will hear soon
Good luck
Yvette says
My claim with Varooma was sent to FOS in January 2020 and picked up January 2021. I’m sure covid had a bit to do with that length of time and they are now in the process of catch up. Hopefully.
Jack says
Hey Everyone,
So after putting my complaint into moneybarn, and it being rejected, then sending it to the FOS, an adjudicator picked it up in January and recently gave their decision and moneybarn 2 weeks to get back to her
They responded on Monday and agreed to her decision which including
Ending the agreement and transferring ownership to me
Paying me back any payments that were above the value of the car (£7210) I have paid £9700 so far
Adding 8% interest to these payments
Remove all adverse information from my credit file
They now have 4 weeks to make the redress payment to me, I wondered if anyone has had a decision go their way against moneybarn and how long their redress took? Did you need to contact them or anything?
Thanks
Yvette says
Morning sara,
Varooma have counter offered with a refund. If this is the case will the bill of sale be cancelled along with the account?
Also does anyone know how quickly they pay out the redress?
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you still owe them money at the moment? How much?
How much is Varooma offering as a refund – is it clear if this is a cash refund or will they use it to clear all / some of the balance?
How does the Varroma offer compare to the adjudicator decision?
I *think* ombudsman cases are starting to go through quicker with the Provident & Amigo backlogs out of the way.
Yvette says
Hi Sara,
I have asked the FOS to clarify today. As the recommendation was the refund. The response from varooma was £4792 paid with 102 deducted as basic rate of interest, and negative details removed from file.
Thanks
Yvette says
Hi Sara,
All was confirmed and all done and dusted. Hopefully the redress won’t take too long.
Thank you for your continued support.
Yvette
Alexandra says
Hi Sara, I put a complaint in with Motonovo and sent them the bank statements before and after the loan, and they emailed me today asking for Monthly income,
Living arrangements, Rent/mortgage costs, Credit commitments.
Then they asked for Occupation, Marital status, Period of time in job (at the time of my application)
Am I right in replying back with the bank statements, as only a quick look in there will tell them everything they need to know. They said they’re asking for this to have a better understanding of my circumstances when I applied. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you think your bank statements give a clear picture of your situation, I suggest you reply saying that.
If they don’t, eg because your partner paid the rent and other bills and so you just made a large payment each month to your partner, then it may be useful to go into more detail.
If the loan was given in the last 6 years it’s also worth sending them a copy of your credit record – a copy of your TransUnion Statutory Report is best, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/
Jax says
Hi Sara, sorry but I wasn’t sure where to post this. I have a loan with Barclays that defaulted early last year. The debt was transferred to Avarto to collect. I logged on to the Barclays website today and the amount outstanding on the loan is showing on there but it’s more than I expected it to be. I have a spreadsheet that I keep with the amount I pay towards each debt and the rolling amount owing based on each payment made so I can easily see when each debt will be paid off. I updated the spreadsheet last time Avarto wrote to me that stated the outstanding balance (this was a few months ago). The trouble is, the balance showing online is currently about £60 more than the amount I have calculated on my spreadsheet but based on the confirmed amount when Avarto last wrote to me minus the payments I have made since that date it appears that Barclays must still be adding interest? Also if I look at the settlement amount it is about £100 ish more than the balance that is showing online. Does it sound to you like interest is still being added or am I missing something? Should Barclays have stopped adding interest at the point that they defaulted the debt? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Jax,
I think it would help to talk this debt and your full situation through with a debt adviser. I suggest you call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
You seem to have a lot of problem debts, a debt management plan is often the simplest way to deal with them. You can still carry on with affordability complaints – anyone you will win then speeds up your DMP. National; Debtline can talk you through the pors and cons of this and any options.