The repayments on many loans from bad credit lenders are too high to be manageable so people get deeper into debt trying to repay them.
If you have an unaffordable loan, you can complain and ask for interest to be removed from your balance. If the loan has been settled, you can ask for a refund of the interest you paid.
This article describes how to complain, with templates. It is a variation on the standard approach for payday loan refunds – this works better where the loans are very large, longer term and you only had 1 or 2 loans, possibly with top ups.
NB the complaints here are for “normal” unsecured loans and HP/PCP car finance. You can also use this approach for logbook loans. If you have a guarantor loan, read Refunds from guarantor loans as it’s very different, and the guarantor may be able to complain as well.
Like payday loan refunds – with some extra twists
The regulator says for a loan to be affordable:
you have to be able to make the repayments without hardship or having to borrow elsewhere.
This is the same test as for payday loan refunds. It applies to most forms of credit, including large, long term loans and logbook loans.
Many people have successfully adapted the payday loan refund template letters to get money back on large loans.
That letter emphasises the problems that repeat borrowing caused. It’s a strong point in favour of payday loan complaints and why I always say that it’s hard to get a refund if you only had one or two loans from a payday lender.
That sounds like bad news for these complaints about large loans, where you normally only have one loan plus possibly a top up or two…
But the good news is that because these loans are larger and longer term, the lender should have made better checks before giving you the first loan!
Making a complaint and asking for a refund
There is a four stage complaints process for these large, bad credit loans:
- Get a copy of your personal information from the lender.
- Put in a detailed complaint.
- Consider lender’s response.
- Send the complaint to the Finanical Ombudsman.
Complain by email
It’s easiest if all communications are by email – free, instant and you have a copy with a date stamp to show the ombudsman. So here are the email addresses to use for the main lenders. If the email address doesnty include the word complaint in it, always put COMPLAINT in as the title of an email to them:
Avant Credit emailcomplaints@avantcredit.co.uk
Bamboo Loans complaints@bambooloans.com
CarCashPoint complaints@carcashpoint.com
Everyday Loans complaints@everyday-loans.co.uk
Likely Loans loans@likelyloans.com
Loans 2 Go (and their logbookloans.co.uk brand) ps@loans2go.co.uk
Mobile Money complaints@mobilemoney.co.uk
Moneybarn complaints@moneybarn.com
Moolr admin@moolr.co.uk
Motor Kitty customercare@motorkitty.co.uk
On Stride support@onstride.co.uk
Progressive Money complaints@progressivemoney.co.uk
Quick Loans customerscare@quickloans.co.uk
Ramsdens (logbook loans) customerservices@ramsdensforcash.co.uk
Savvy info@savvy.co.uk
Vanquis customer.relations@vanquisbank.co.uk
Varooma complaints@varooma.com
118 118 Money complaints@118118money.com
Stage 1 – ask for personal information
This first stage lodges an affordability complaint and starts the clock going on the 8 weeks a lender has to respond to you. Put AFFORDABILITY COMPLAINT as the title of your email.
You probably already know when you took out the loan and any top-ups. But it’s good to ask the lender to send you a copy of all the personal information they have about you.
Sample email:
I am asking you to refund the interest and any charges I paid, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
[delete if you have repaid the loan] I would also like an affordable repayment plan to be put in place if I still owe a balance after this refund.
To help me explain the details, I am making a Subject Access Request (SAR) for all the personal information you hold about me including, but not limited to, my applications, all credit and other affordability checks, a statement of account for my borrowing, and a record of all phone calls. I understand you are not allowed to charge me for sending this information.
SARs are often sent out by post, so if you have moved, make sure the lender has your new address.
NB The template says you are asking for an affordable payments arrangement at the end of your complaint. If you cannot afford the repayments right now, you can ask for an affordable payments arrangement immediately unless you have a logbook loan, where you have to keep up the payments or you may lose the car.
While you are waiting for this, assemble some other information that may help your case. Get copies of your bank statements from 3 months before the first loan.
Download a copy of your Noddle free credit report. Use this to do two things for each loan or top-up you took:
- make a list of all your outstanding credit when you applied – all the credit cards, loans, payday loans, overdraft. You want to the details of how much you owed in total and what your monthly payments should have been;
- make a list of credit report problems in the 6 months before your application – new defaults, missed payments, arrangements to pay, DMPs, insolvency.
Also read Payday lender says I lied. That looks at the various reasons why you may not have given an accurate account of your income or expenses. People have won complaints where they lied because they were desperate but there are other reasons too, so think what (if any) may have applied to you.
Stage 2 – give complaint details
When you have the SAR back from the lender, you can look for things that the lender knew but chose to ignore or didn’t ask about.
Change this template so it reflects what happened to you, both why the loan was unaffordable and why the lender should have realised this. Where I have given some options, delete them all and put in another one if that is more accurate.
No-one will include all these points. It is better to write a short complaint pointing out real problems than send pages telling the lender general stuff they already know.
You can see from my bank statements and credit record that I was unable to afford the loan repayments. [Delete if not relevant] [For example, I had to borrow from X payday lender and I defaulted on my Y debt.]
When I completed the loan application, I understated some of my expenses. This was because: [put what actually happened! this could be something like] I wasn’t very aware of the amounts I was spending and completed the application hastily. OR I wanted to hide the fact I was spending a lot of money on gambling/cigarettes/alcohol. OR I was desperate and wanted to make my expenses sound low so you would give me the loan.
FCA’s CONC 5.3 says that you should not accept an application where you ought reasonably to know the figures are not truthful, you can’t rely solely on information on an application, and that you should not accept information which is inconsistent with what you know. This was a larger loan, you knew I had poor credit and may have been in a difficult position so you should have tried to verify details. If you had done this, you would have rejected my application. For example [delete or add to these as appropriate]:
- You should have noticed that some figures were implausibly low, for example: x,y,z
- I didn’t include amounts such as [delete/add as appropriate]: car insurance, TV license, opticians and dental costs, presents]
- My bank statement would have shown that I was spending more than the application said. Either you saw my bank statement and ignored this or you never asked for my bank statement to verify this.
- During a telephone call, your agent talked me into agreeing that some figures should be lower in order to get my application accepted.
- Your application didn’t ask me for details of my other credit commitments and I didn’t realise I had to include them.
- You should have seen that the figures I put in for other credit commitments were inconsistent with my credit record.
When I applied for a second loan/a top-up [delete/add as appropriate]:
- you ignored the evidence on the credit check that my position had got more difficult OR you didn’t do a new credit check. If you had done this you would have seen the new credit I had taken out and the new problems showing on my credit record.
- you didn’t ask if my income or expenses had changed, and they had.
- you didn’t ask for bank statements so you could check if the new repayments were affordable.
- I had said the first loan was to consolidate debt, but you should have seen that this hadn’t happened.
- you increased my interest rate, showing you realised I was in a more difficult position but you did not check whether I could actually afford the new repayments.
You may think that’s a lot of work or you don’t want to mention a lot of these things to a lender. It’s up to you, you can just put in a brief complaint and give the Ombudsman fuller information later. But going into details has worked for some readers.
Stage 3 – consider lender’s response
You should get a response from the lender within 8 weeks.
Normally you can tell straight away if a response is acceptable or not good enough. If you aren’t sure, ask what other people think in the Comments below this article.
Don’t be put off by a rejection, or the lender saying it was your fault because of your loan application. As the complaint letter says, lenders are obliged to do checks. For one small payday loan, these checks could have been brief. But for your large loan, the lender should have made sure they knew enough to be confident you could afford it. If they didn’t, send your case to the Ombudsman.
If you think there is something very wrong with what the lender said, perhaps some information they have completely ignored, you could go back and point this out. Say you would like them to look again at this and you will send it to the Ombudsman in a week if they haven’t come back with an improved offer.
Stage 4 – send to Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)
I suggest you use the “do it online” option to send a complaint to the Ombudsman. It asks you for all the details they need.
The main part of your complaint can be a version of what you sent the lender in Stage two. Add any more details you want, including pointing out if you think there are errors in the lender’s reply. You should attach the following:
- the reply from the lender
- Noddle credit record
- bank statements starting 3 months before first loan.
Your complaint will first be looked at by an adjudicator. If either you or the lender reject the adjudicator’s decision, it will then be looked at by an Ombudsman.
“Is this really going to work?”
Here are some recent comments from people who have had refunds for this sort of loan. They show how some people get a good result directly and others have to go to the Ombudsman. Don’t assume a rejection by the lender means you can’t win!
Andy: A flat out refusal from 118118 Money. One loan (£1,000) plus one top up (£2,500). Stating they had done nothing wrong, all payments made on time and paid top up loan off early. Saying I had a good income, verified by a bank statement and they had phone call recordings that I had made it clear the repayments were affordable.
Sent to FOS as I was in loads of debt at the time, loads of repeat pay day loans etc. Didn’t hold out much hope but thought I may get a positive decision on the top up loan. Adjudicator held in my favour on both loans. 118118 accepted decision and offered circa £800. I had my loan statements and the total interest (plus 8% interest) was nearer £1,300. Adjudicator queried this for me with 118118. They agreed with my calculations. Adjudicator gave them 28 days to pay. It was in my bank the very same day.
Dan: I had a complaint upheld by the adjudicator at the Ombudsman against Avant Credit: Refund of all interest and 8%, £75 compensation, removal of loan from my credit file. Avant Credit agreed with the adjudicator.
Louise: Have had my response from Everyday Loans and complaint upheld. All interest been removed and I only have to pay back what they lent. Excellent outcome. Lent 5000 and have paid 3k so just 2k left to go. On my DMPthe balance was showing at 6.5k still left. Took them 5 weeks to uphold my complaint a lot of emails going back and forth.
Soph: Had 2 loans from Avant Credit. Rejected within 2 days, sent to FOS Jan, upheld in March, Avant agreed with FOS and refund in the bank within 7 days.
Robert: I was successful in getting all interest wiped from my topped up loan with 118 118, didn’t go to the FOS or anything.
And here is a decision from the Ombudsman about one of these sorts of cases – Loans2Go ignored some of the details their credit showed when decided to give Mr W two large loans.
“What about a bank loan?”
The affordability test is the same – could you repay the loan without getting deeper into debt elsewhere. But there are two problems with normal bank loans:
- their interest rates are lower so it’s harder to show that the smaller repayments are unaffordable; and
- if your credit record was OK or even good, the bank wouldn’t have been alerted that way to the fact you may have difficulty.
So it can be hard to win a case involving a typical bank loan, especially if your credit record was OK. But if you want to try, you can use the template letters here.
Need some help?
If you need help to complain, go to your local Citizens Advice, they will help for free.
Don’t use a claims management company. They are expensive and often incompetent. A good claim involves telling your own story, not sending a standard letter!
Getting a payday loan refund if you owe money
What to put in an affordability complaint
Examples of gambling & payday loan refunds
cl says
Ive got two of these loans – Avant Credit and Likely loans both over 3k due to a gambling addiction which i am now seeking help for. Ive taken Avant to FOS no help at all rejected and said avant did correct checks and in addition Likely loans will not budge at all despite many e-mails and calls. They are not affordable and ive paid very little back on both maybe 600 total.
I have no idea what to do they are destroying my credit rating and i see no way out –
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send the Likely Loans case to FOS. Just because you didn’t win the Avant case (was that an adjudicator decision or an ombudsman decision?) doesn’t mean you won’t win the LL complaint.
Do you have other problem debts as well? How much do they add up to in total? are you making any payments to any of them at the moment? are you buying or renting?
Cl says
It went to ombudsman in the end and still ruled in avants favour. I owe these two plus one other bank loan and a payday loan about 10k total.
I rent – I’ve even said I’ll pay them back just remove interest and get a no back
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you looked at getting money back from other payday lenders you had used before?
I think you should talk to StepChange about your options – depending on how much you can repay each month, a DMP, a DRO or bankruptcy could be best for you.
Joseph says
Don’t know if anyone has ever dealt with Creation Finance but they are an absolute joke – past the 8 week deadline and they said they’ve only just started to look at it, calling up every day to chase this but they are just so obstructive it’s unreal – has anyone had any success with this company?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Give them a deadline – your complaint goes to FOS in a week if they do not make a satisfactory offer.
CarrieN says
Hi Sara
I had a loan with NatWest quite a few years ago. I complained about irresponsible lending as I was already behind with credit card and loan payments and they would have seen this on my credit file. They have come back with a final response stating that as the loan is over six years old they won’t consider it. I have only just found out that I could complain a few months ago so does the three year rule stand in my favour?thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, sorry, FOS won’t consider these older cases.
Lou7 says
I put a complaint in about 118 money in May 2018 and it still hasn’t been assigned to an adjudicator yet. Is this normal? I am waiting for an ombudsman to make decisions on Avant and onstride.
Cathy says
I have only just read up on affordability complaints.
I was successful in getting a redress from some payday lenders.
I had 2 loans from everyday loans / they were taken out in May/Dec 2012. As this is longer than 6 years ago – can they consider them?
I was still paying them back in 2015.
Many Thanks
Cathy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can try but this may be difficult at FOS.
Tim says
Hi Sara
So I’ve had a letter today from loans 2 go declining my complaint,despite the fact I haven’t sent a follow up email from the one requesting my SAR!
I’ve received the SAR with my application form and that was it,on it I put reason for loan was to move house and in the expenditures I put 0 for most things as was living with parents,surely given the fact I stated I was moving house for loan reason they should have asked all these amounts? Also I had 4 defaults around the time of the loan(all before) and also 20k+ of existing debt
I’ve emailed them again pointing this out and saying I want a response within 1 week (the refusal letter said that was the final decision)or’ll go to the ombudsman.
Have I done the right thing?
Thanks
Tim
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sure, it’s only a week, why not ask them to look at it again.
I think your point about the zero expenditure is a good one! Also, how had you had problems leading to 4 defaults if you were living with your parents and not having any expenses?
Tim says
I had my hours cut in work (0 hour contract) and I split up with an ex girlfriend,so I moved back home temporarily it was literally for a couple of weeks till I found somewhere else.
Ok great I’ll wait to hear from them,I won’t hold my breath though,then I’ll go to the FOS
I’ll let you know how it goes but thank you so much for the help and this wonderful website without which I’d have never have known
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah I wasn’t asking you why you had problems, I was suggesting that L2G should have stopped and asked those questions…
Tim says
Oh of course they should I didn’t think of that!
Well I’ve emailed them explaining this if not hopefully the ombudsman will agree with me,if I don’t try I deffinately won’t get a refund so fingers crossed!
Thanks again for everything
Tim
StevieC says
Hi,
Has anyone had any luck with complaints with Moneybarn? Or would that not be counted as it was for a car purchase?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Car finance should be subject to the same affordability checks that other loans are. Give it a go!
StevieC says
At the time I had payday loans with Unclebuck, SafetyNet Credit & Wizzcash all regular loans. I was also in £2000 overdraft maxed although was given a loan for £9,500 to buy a car (stupid me i know)
StevieC says
At the time I had payday loans with Unclebuck, SafetyNet Credit & Wizzcash all regular loans. I was also in £2000 overdraft maxed although was given a loan for £9,500 to buy a car (stupid me i know) I still owe £5,700 and hacvent missed a payment although I have taken numerous PDL’s out to get by and borrowed on CC’s
MM says
You sound literally like just the same situation as me. Have you complained? I have only missed a few payments which were down to the company changing my paydate incorrectly. What date did you take out the loan?
Paul says
Hi,
On stride financial have asked me to give them bank statements and payslips from when I took out the loan, should they be asking for these or should they already have them? I’m finding it hard to get the statements as I’ve been out of the country for a while.
Thanks
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them to consider your case as it stands. BUT you do need to persevere with trying to get these bank statements in case you need to go to the Ombudsman. Was this just a single loan?
Paul says
Yes it was just a single loan, I will be able to get hold of the statements so I shall do that and ask them to consider the case as it is.
Thanks
CG says
Can anyone advise once an adjudicator starts looking at your case, how long do they roughly take to investigate and make a decision. The adjudicator picked up my case on 23/01/19, I was then asked for info on 4/2/19 and responded on 7/2/19, am I still looking at weeks/months?
MM says
Hi,
I currently have a logbook loan with Moneybarn and have a couple of years left to pay. When I took out the logbook loan in February 2016 I had at least 2-3 defaults, and a large amount of debt and missed payments – also a low credit score. I’ve still got another couple of years to pay this off – do you think it’s worth attempting to put in an affordability complaint? I had an income of about 17k, yet I was with my financial history allowed to take out this loan.
Do you think it’s worth putting one in? Has anyone complained about Moneybarn before?
MM
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you have seen the only recent comment from someone about Moneybarn.
Was this a logbook loan? That is a loan on car which you already own. Moneybarn generally do Conditional Sale agreements on a car you are buying? This doesn’t make a difference to your affordability complaint but it changes your legal rights if you want to end the contract early.
It is worth complaining if you feel the monthly repayments were unaffordable for you and MB should have realised that when you applied. Follow the 4 stage process described in the article above – and expect your complaint to have to go to the Ombudsman.
MM says
I took out the loan in Feb 16, and have two more years left. The car was valued around 4.5k, and the loan total is around 9-10k (I think). I’ve currently got about 3.8k remaining.
Either way, I’ve had SafetyNet Credit uphold an unaffordable lending complaint from a month or two before the date I took out this logbook loan.
One question before I go ahead and do this, if I was to go down this route do you think there is anything they could do to make my life more difficult? I need the car I’ve got to get to work etc.
MM says
Oh, also found this article here. Sorry, it’s from The S*n:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/5075751/moneybarn-investigated-over-claims-it-doled-out-loans-customers-couldnt-afford/
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the FCA still hasn’t completed its investigation into Moneybarn.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you aren’t in arrears they can’t repossess your car. As you are more than half through the contract, you probably have the right to hand back the car and not owe any more money or have your credit record harmed. But that would only work if you have an alternative way of getting a car to get to work.
MM says
I see. I either way would like to keep the car. Would you say it’s worth me pursuing them for Unaffordable Lending if I actually want to keep the car?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Definitely go for an affordability complaint if you are struggling to manage the repayments! Handing back the car is just another option.
MM says
I’m not currently struggling though, but when I took the logbook loan out it was a little difficult I would say as my salary was much less.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s fine, it is the affordability when you took it out that matters.
Dana says
Hi Sara,
So in November I complained to all 3 loan companies (118 118 Money, Avant Credit and Likely Loans), who I currently have large loans with (some I’m on my second and top up loan) and I’m struggling to pay them each month, even after explaining my situation about being out of work and being in the midst in a deep pay day loan trap when applying they all rejected my complaint saying they did the correct checks, they then sent my SARS after the final decision. I sent the complaints to FOS at the end of January and I have already been assigned an Adjudicator, which is a pleasant surprise as it took 6 plus months to get assigned with my pay day loan complaints (all refunded and taken off my credit file thanks to your website Sara).
However, after speaking to the FOS they said they don’t usually disagree with loans being issue if I’ve told the company I was working when in fact I wasn’t when applying, however, I’ve had to reiterate that I had so many pay day loans on my credit file (including outstanding loans) this should have been a warning sign to them.
Is there anything else I can say to the FOS to help my case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you sent all three companies a request for all your personal data?
For the first time you borrowed from a lender, you need to show that there was sometging wrong with your application that the lender should have noticed. For example:
– some of your expenses were unreasonably low (low food expenses? nothing for clothes or prescriptions//dentist/opticians) petrol for a car but nothing for other running costs such as car tax, insurance, servicing, MOT?)
– you hadn’t listed all your debts on your application – check what they saw on your credit record and point out that this was more than you said on your application.
For a second or top up loan, you can repeat all the above and also add:
– do your expenses seem to have dropped from the first application? That is a classic sign you are in trouble and just saying anything to get an application approved.
– has your income increased a lot? If so, why would you need to borrow more?
– have your other debts increased from your first application?
– did you put on your first application that you wanted it to consolidate debt, but it is obvious that you haven’t done that?
This is fiddly stuff, looking at exactly what lender A would have seen in June 2017 and what had changed by your top up in January 2018. But if you set it all out it canb be a very convincing case!
Dana says
Thanks Sara, fingers crossed, I requested the SAR files and explained to the companies it was evident I was in a pay day loan trap.
Do these large loan complaints tend to be quicker than the payday loan complaints?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, but they aren’t very quick any more.
Dana says
Hi Sara,
I got a response from the FOS today saying they won’t be upholding my complaint, even though it’s evident I’m struggling to make repayments and I was in a pay day loan trap when applying, they’ve gone in favour of the lender, as they apparently did the correct checks and it’s not there fault I provided the wrong information regarding affordability. I’m not sure what else to do but to carry on snowballing.
Any other advice would be much appreciated but this seems harder than dealing with payday loan lenders.
Bill says
Hi Sarah,
Had my 2nd response from the fos, kindly informing me my complaint against mr lender will not be upheld , had 7 loans in over 12 months, there conclusion was the loans where affordable although 3 should loans should not of been given to me as they where paid one day after loan was paid out! Adjudicator had told me if I had any bank statements to back up my complain! should he not have all the evidence first before making a judgement? Find it all very strange as had rejection from adjudicator last week,…..same again asking for evidence after already making a decision not to uphold regarding likely loans, the bank statements clearly show I was robbing peter to pay Paul on a weekly basis,
Bill
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you already sent FOS your bank statements or not?
bill says
Hi Sarah, yes I sent them to mr lender at the beginning but not the fos, I find it unusual they made a decision without looking at my statements, adjudicator also said payday lenders don’t have to look at credit files to make decisions on lending?
Bill
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well send the statements right away! Don’t grumble at the adjudicator send them the evidence they need.
Mrs and Mrs C says
We had a loan with Welcome Finance (was sold to Prime Credit). We tried to go down the irresponsible lending route, but were told that because the loan was taken out so long ago (2009) that it was too long ago. I did challenge Welcome on some interest that was added to the account within and they have removed that – paying the money across to Prime Credit. We have been making small overpayments on the loan and are now £1000 overpaid – but they wont take this off the balance, it just sits as an overpayment, presumably so they can charge more interest on the higher balance – are they legally allowed to do this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you allowed to make overpayments? You need to phone them up and ask if you don’t have the T&cs for the account.
Mrs and Mrs C says
Hi Sara – yes when we were with Welcome they used to phone us up at intervals asking if we could pay more as it would clear the balance quicker by reducing interest charged each month, now that we are with Prime Credit the money is just sitting there and the term remains the same no matter how much we overpay by. It seems to be ran differently to Welcome Finance, have we just accepted their terms and conditions automatically when the debt was sold to them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No the T&C will remain the same. You need to ask Prime Credit why they are not reducing your balance.
Mrs and Mrs C says
Thanks Sara, I will call them today, if the T&C are not the same as Welcome Finance can I send to the FOS?
I have been sent a data access request from Welcome and in there are tel calls where WF have called us asking us if we can pay more and showing how many months we can knock off the loan, and how much interest we could save by paying more. We have had none of this since moving to PC and when I asked them when the loan finished she gave us the original date, and I didn’t click on that they weren’t working the same. We have been budgeting to finish the loan 36 months early and I fear this is not the case now since they are keeping our money as an overpayment.
Mrs and Mrs C says
I phoned them, they said they are applying our overpayments to the balance? They cant give us a new end date to the loan in case we don’t keep up the overpayments at this level. When we were with WF our end date was brought forward by 36 months due to the overpayments we have been making, yet PC still say we owe 10k, I have asked for a statement of all transactions to look at and will go through it all again. Something doesn’t seem to add up with me.
Tim says
Hi Sara
I’ve had no reply since from loans to go after giving them 7 days to respond,
I’m going to send my complaint to the ombudsman,but before I do, how many bank statements do I need,the account in question is now closed so I want to ask for the correct dates etc.
Also I’ve got a copy of my Experian report but I don’t think everything is on it,is noddle the best one to get?
Thanks again for helping
Tim
ClaireR says
I’ve had two decisions from FOS today for Avant Credit and Bamboo. Had 2 loans with each, whilst taking out numerous payday loans.
Both not upheld, same reasons for both, Although they could see I had short term loans there wasn’t any indication I was in trouble as repaid them on time etc.
Is it worth going back to FOS to say can they state again that I was using payday loans to help make payments?
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you top up/refinance the first loan with each? Or pay it off and then borrow again, if so after what gap?
What you are looking for here are discrepancies – where your application didn’t match your credit record OR where your situation had got worse from the first loan to the second one.
For the first loans, did you application reflect accurately what the lender could see on your credit record?
Did you say the first loan was to consolidate some debt, but on your second application it should have been clear that you didn’t do this?
For the second loan/top up, had your financial position got worse? More debts, recent debt payment problems on credit record? Did your 2nd application show that you income had jumped or your expenses had dropped – either should have caused the second application to be looked at more closely.
ClaireR says
Hi Sara
Yes the second loans were within weeks of paying off the first. I did say they were being used to consolidate debts, which they were but was obviously still in that spiral of borrowing consistently.
I will go back to FOS with these points.
The second loans have both defaulted and are in payment arrangements.
Thank you for your comments.
ClaireR says
Hi Sara,
I went back to the FOS, and had the following response from the investigator
“I’ve only looked at whether the lending that took place was irresponsibly done at the time. My view has explained that there was no adverse information on your credit report prior to the loans being taken out that would have brought to light you were in or would be in severe financial difficulty to show the loans would be unaffordable.
The income and expenditure checks showed that you have sufficient disposable income to manage repayments. You also managed your previous loans in full with both lenders. So, I still find that the checks taken were appropriate and proportionate for the duration and amount borrowed at the time the loans were approved and don’t find that either business would’ve had reason to do any further checks before lending.”
“If I can’t resolve things then an ombudsman here can look at everything again and make a final decision”
Doesn’t sound great, but am guessing I have nothing to lose by letting the ombudsman make a decision.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well worth taking to the ombudsman if your credit record would have shown that yout position had got worse by the time you borrowed again from a lender AND if you bank statements would have showed that you could only get through a month by borrowing again.
You need to reply explaining why you think this bit “The income and expenditure checks showed that you have sufficient disposable income to manage repayments.” is incorrect and ask for this to be passed onto the Ombudsman.
Write a separate account for each lender. “My bank statement for the month before I applied to X for the first loan showed …. go into details about your expenses, debts, overdraft, and how you only got through the month by borrowing more, At the time of my 2nd loan (or was it a top up?) my credit record would have showed that …. go into detail about the amount of your debt increasing and payday loan borrowing taken out . My bank statement for the month before would have shown … same details as before and point out if any of them are worse than on your first application to X”
ClaireR says
Thank you Sara,
I will get this info together and pass it back to them.
Appreciate your advise and guidance.
ClaireR says
Sara
I have just replied to the Investigator with copies of all my bank statements, showing the loans being used to pay back
payday loans, and then borrowing again within days usually to make ends meet.
It has highlighted that in the 2 years of having the 1st Avant Credit loan, I had over 45 short term loans
before taking the 2nd Avant loan,(original loan was £1500, second loan was £1900) just one week after paying off the first.
The same with Bamboo, 25 short term loans between the 1st and 2nd loans, a year apart.
I do hope that this changes the Investigators conclusion.
I will keep you updated.
Thanks.
ClaireR says
Well, i have just had this back, so it now goes to an Ombudsman for a final decision.
Hope I have better luck on my complaints with Lending Stream and Sunny.
“Just to clarify, my view was based on my findings that each business was required to lend responsibly. It needed to make checks to see whether you could afford to pay back the loan before it lent. Those checks needed to be proportionate to things such as the amount you were borrowing, and your lending history, but there is no set list of checks it had to do.
I appreciate you feel the bank statements you provided show the income and expenditure checks were incorrect, but I think it is fair and reasonable to judge each businesses decision to lend based on the information it was given at the time. I don’t think the circumstances of the loan, including the credit checks results, suggested each business needed to dig deeper by asking specifically about other short term lending, or taking steps to independently verify any information it would have been provided.”
Dean says
Hi Sara,
How long does a decision take for p2p lending to be looked at by an ombudsman after an adjudicator has upheld?
I have been waiting since November and seems like a long time now.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ombudsman waits are typically 2-4 months, sorry.
Anna says
Hello,
I had a Loan with TM Advance and after 18 Months paying them 4,230.00 ( borrowing £3.000) to close my account still I had to pay £3,111.00. They won’t tell you that they ‘front load’ the interest, meaning you pay all the interest before paying a single penny off the amount you actually owe them. I borrowed 3k 18 months ago, paid them 4.3k already and still owe them 3.1k? Essentially this means they are taking the interest for the final 18 months when in reality I want to settle it before then, plus they charge you interest for a period of time in the future that has not even happened yet! I can’t see anywhere on my contract that I will pay first interest only. Is this right? Can they do this not stating anywhere on the Contract?
I want to complain asking for some refunds, I paid my loan earlier (just recently) and still was to repay more than I took.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you want to query the early settlement figure, you should ask them to supply details of how that was calculated and a copy of your credit agreement, if you don’t have it still.
If you think the loan payments were too high for you to manage, so the loan was “unaffordable” and you had to keep borrowing more to pay it, then you can use the template letters on this page to ask for a refund of the interest.
Scott says
Hi all,
I had a single loan with 118118 and the complaint was upheld by an Ombudsman.
Don’t be put off complaining if you haven’t had a top-up loan, single loan complaints can be won.
Good luck all.
Scott
CarrieN says
Hi Scott
I see you were in the same situation as me I also had one loan with 118118. Did it take long when it was with the ombudsman?
Shaun says
I have had 2 loans with everday loans, one was a top up. Ive paid like 3 times the amount of what i originally borrowed however im in a dispute with them as they still say i owe 2.8k .do you think id have a chance in getting this closed? They have send me my statement of account. However the debt is now with a debt collector which i have said im disputing. Because originally i fell behind in payments. Do you think i have a case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have three possible complaints here.
First is that they charge a rate of interest that is unreasonably high. You aren’t likely to win this. The documentation you signed would have stated clearly what the interest rate was, what your repayments would be and the total amount that you would repay. So although the rate is high, you agreed to it.
Second is that they have made a mistake in their calculations. You could ask them to explain them in detail, in particular the “settlement calculation” when you topped up the loan. It’s not impossible they made a mistake but it would be unusual.
Third is that the loan – or possibly just the top – was too expensive for you to afford. The fact that you fell behind with the payments suggests this might be the case? This is more likely to be successful. Read the article above and think if you have a good affordability complaint. If so, send in the template letter to start your complaint.
Has your loan been sold to a debt collector by Everyday Loans? Or just passed to a debt collector for collecting?
Shaun says
Its just been passed onto a debt collector. From what i have received ive paid more interest than on their agreement.
MM says
I know from some previous posts Avant Credit get some bad press for being unresponsive but I have them to be pretty good in handling my complaint. They dealt with my original complaint, repaying £8534.44. Refunded all interest and fees charged on the loan resulting in an overpayment and awarded 8% flat rate per annum interest to the overpayment. They got in touch after they had made the repayment and said I was due a partial refund of £411.58 as they did not notify correctly me when I went into arrears. They made the payment promptly but made a small error and payed £380 rather than £411 (not including the statutory interest payment), they quickly rectified the payment. So all in all I found them pretty good to deal with. Good on e-mail and clear comms. Appreciate not everyone has had that. But just thought I’d give a but of hope to anyone who is dealing with Avant.
Prefer not to say says
I’ve had a response from MYJAR today with a decision not to uphold. I’ve sent this off to the Ombudsman today. Basically MYJAR are staying because I only had two loans with them my complaint has been declined. Has anyone had any good news stories from MYJAR recently either directly or following the referral to the ombudsman. Also any indication how long the ombudsman take to investigate. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large were these loans? what was the gap between repaying the first and taking the second?
Prefer not to say says
The first one was 01/11/16 for 2000 and the second was 28/02/17 for £1200. I took out another loan to pay off the first which was paid off 14/12/16 and the second one I ended up with DMP September 2017 which has now cleared. I understand that the interest was stopped on the second one in September 2017 however I have paid in excess of £900 in interest
Sara (Debt Camel) says
For a refund on the first loan, you need to show that the monthly payments were unaffordable and myjar should have realised that. did you send Myjar a request for a copy of all your personal data including your credit record? You need to look at this and searching for discrepancies – did your application miss off debts that were showing on the credit record Myjar saw?
For a refund on the second loan, you can do the same as for the first loan PLUS you can look at whether your debt position showing on your credit record in 28/02/17 was significantly worse (higher balances? recent defaults?) than it was when you took the first loan on 1/11/16.
Prefer not to say says
Yeah I sent them my full credit report and bank statements for the months the loans were taken out. This also showed my gambling problem at the time. I have sent on all of the same to the ombudsman
Dean says
Hi Sara,
I mentioned on here before that i had a p2p loan with Zopa and had a decision with an adjudicator which was held in my favour.
I have had a provisional decision from the ombudsman saying they will not upheld my complaint unless i provide further information.
Some background on my complaint, at the time i applied for the p2p loan i had a over £25,000 of debt with no previous defaults/missed payments. I also had a gambling problem but this was not mentioned in the provisional decision.
The loan i applied for was for £13,000 plus a loan fee £3500 and interest of £3000. I said on the form the loan was for debt consolidation and that was a lie and the ombudsman have said Ratesetter had no other reason not to believe so.
I had 3 maxed out credit cards, overdraft and a loan amounting to over £25,000. I earnt £1700 after tax per month. They approved a loan of £19500 including interest without checking my bank statements. I moved in with my parent because my property was too far away and couldnt afford travel etc due to my gambling problem. My bank statements show my mortgage out but a friend was lodging there for a bit so was ok. Due to this, my expenditure was minimal and was paying min credit card payments and loan of £350. My travel was about £200 and other exp was not much but delayed paying my parents because i had no money left due to gambling.
It feels like i have no choice but to accept this provisional decision, do i have a leg to stand on? I am currently paying £35pm on a loan outstanding of £4500 which will take over 10 years to pay. Do i have a leg to stand on with my reply?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large were the Zopa repayments?
Has FOS asked for any specific infomration?
Dean says
They were £380 pm
They have not asked for anything specific and mentioned from the information he mentioned on the information gathered doent find this raised concerns.
Just need to provide them anything that can change their mind
They dont mention gambling in their decision, the adjudicator does.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think that is going to be very hard to win. it sounds as though the loan would have been affordable if you had used it to consolidate debt. Or if you hadn’t been gambling.
You could argue:
1) this is a very large loan in relation to your salary and Zopa should have considered how sustainable that level of debt would be
2) your credit record showed that your debts had gone up very fast in the year before your application [had they?]
3) it wasn’t clear from your application why your debts had gone up so much as they should have been affordable. [would they have been affordable if you weren’t gambling?]
4) so Zopa should have realised that there was some large piece of infomration that they were missing – if they had asked to see your bank statements it would have been obvious that you had a major gambling problem,
But I’m not saying that will be easy.
Dean says
Thanks Sara,
I will send them a reply and take my time with it. Yes to your point re debts going up very fast. I might have even applied for loans and credit cards before the zopa one that were rejected within that month.
I had withdrawals and deposits of over £10000 in that month in my bank statement. And 30000 the month before.
Lets see how it goes, thanks for your reply
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“I might have even applied for loans and credit cards before the zopa one that were rejected within that month.” they may not have showed on the credit search Zopa did. Do you have a copy of that?
Dean says
Yeah i have a copy of the application. I will include it in the file
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you need to do more than that. In difficult cases, you need to do as much as possible to make it easy for the adjudicator to take the right decision.
So you could say something like: “the credit check Zopa did (attached) shows that my debts 12 months before my application were £x (list them), 6 months before this had gone up to £y (list them) and when I applied it was £z (list them). There was no indication why by debts had risen as according to the I&E Zopa had, I should have been able to cover the repayments easily.”
The put some stuff in about how big the loan was and how Zopa were obliged to carefully consider what they knew about your situation and ask more questions if it didn’t look right etc.
Dean says
Good morning,
Thank you for your input, will send this over today.
Thanks again
CarrieN says
Hi everyone
Has anyone had any luck with 118 money I had a large loan from them last year and am now in a dmp. I sent them a complaint re irresponsible lending and they’ve not upheld my complaint should I take this to the ombudsman? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you think the loan repayments were too large to be affordable then yes!
CarrieN says
Ok thanks Sara
Chloe says
Hi Sara,
I had my complaint back from the FOS for Likely Loans and it has not been upheld. I then sent them a statement for the month I got the loan) showing I was paying a lot of other payday loans and advised this loan was not affordable. They have come back and advised;
‘Likely used credit reference agency Experian to conduct a credit check on you and the Payday loans you mentioned below were not visible. Some Payday lenders such as WDA do not use credit reference agencies but their own credit scoring system so there will be no information on a credit file about this. In this case I do not agree that they did not conduct proper checks. There are other credit reference agencies but they were not obliged to check them, only the one they used to ensure what you had told them about being able to repay was correct. And the large payments you made in Sept 2016 to P2P and early October 2016 to My Jar, Wonga and Payday UK look like final payments. If you say they continued into other months please provide further bank statements to show this. At present I do not consider that there was unaffordable lending to you by Likely Loans. I will be closing my file but if you wish to provide further information feel free to do so.’ I have sent further bank statements to show they were not just one off payments but monthly payments.
If they come back and still advise it is not upheld is there any point in going to the ombudsman do they ever disagree with the investigator?
Thank you :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large was this loan?
what did you say you wanted the loan for?
how accurate was your loan application – did you mention the payday loan debts?
have you looked at your Experian record and seen what shows there?
Bill says
Hi, re: likely loans, I had exactly the same reply, although it appears to me the FOS are just whittling down the load of claims without actually looking closely, I had 8 payday loans at the time, I applied for a likely loan of £1000 to consolidate the loans I had, although I only paid half of them, 12 months later I applied for a further loan of £2000, although I still had two payments to make for the first loan, they deducted the final two payments from my second loan, even still had 4 payday loans when I applied! I have asked the adjucator to look at my complaint again with evidence of bank statements provided, although he did not ask for evidence when I started the complaint,
Bill
Scott says
I also had a complaint with Likely Loans that wasn’t upheld, similar response to yours.
I had payment arrangement’s and late payments in place but they weren’t showing on Experian. The annoying thing is they check Experian but only report to Callcredit.
Hopefully you get your complaint upheld.
Scott
Chloe says
Thanks Scott :) was yours upheld in the end?
Chloe says
Thanks Bill :) when did you ask him to look at it again? I am still waiting to hear back, good luck to you both :)
Bill says
Hi Chloe, I had my complaint not upheld coming upto 5 weeks, heard nothing, all a bit fishy really, I don’t hold much chance,
Bill
Luke Usher says
Good evening,
I made an affordability complaint for a high interest car loan with London & Surrey Motor Finance Ltd. I am currently still paying back the loan. The loan was sold to Auto Money a few months ago.
I received a reply from Auto Money, saying that they cannot be held responsible for the lending practices of London & Surrey Motor Finance and any complaint must be made directly with them. Is this the correct procedure or are they trying to wrangle out of it?
It may also be worth mentioning that the headed paper received from AutoMoney states that they were formerly known as London & Surrey Motor Finance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is normal to complain to the original lender. But L&SMF’s website gives complaints@automoneymotorfinance.co.uk as the email address for complaints. And both L&SMF and AM seem to be brand names of the same FCA firm, Mobile Money, see https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDetailsPage?id=001b000000m5zUtAAI.
I suggest you talk to the Financial Ombudsman about this and ask who you are supposed to complain to. If you don’t get anywhere, come back here?
Are you in arrears on the loan?
Lucy says
Hello,
I got myself into a financial mess from 2009 to 2012, where I had multiple pay day loans and log book loans. I received refunds for the payday loans 2 years ago, but I was unaware I could claim for the log book loan until I received an email from you the other day.
I emailed mobile money immediately. I had 2 loans from them. £1,800 in July 2010, all 3 payments were late and then I repaid in October 2010. I then took out another loan with them in July 2011 for £2,000 and made 2 late payments before asking to borrow another £1,000 in November 2011, which they gave me, made 2 more late payments and then repaid in February 2012 when my mum lent me the money to pay them off.
I received a letter back from them today saying that because it was over 6 years old the complaint would not be upheld and that it is a final response.
Can I take it to the FOS? I would have done it 2 years ago with the payday loans complaints but I wasn’t aware that I could.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can send it to FOS but MM have indicated that they will object to FOS looking at it.
FOS could take the same decision it has taken for payday loans – that it can look at these older loans where people have only found out in the last three years that they could complain.
But the only other situation where FOS is currently saying that it can look at the older loans is doorstep lending (ie Provident). I am not aware that they have decided this for any other sort of lending.
Lucy says
Thanks Sara. I think I will still send it to FOS and see what they say.
I asked for all information they have on me as per your template referencing the SAR, but they only sent me the loan statement as it is over 6 years. Are they allowed to do this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they still hold any information they have to send it to you. I suggest you ask them where the rest of the information such as credit checks and a copy of your application and the credit agreement are.
Paul says
Hi
If I have a complaint in with 118 should I keep paying them? I have a payment due at the end of the month and it’s not looking likely I’ll be able to pay it this will be my first missed payment
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you can’t pay it without having to borrow again, then no you shouldn’t pay it. Cancel the CPA with your bank and tell 118 you need a payment arrangement.
Matt says
Hi
I took out a loan with welcome finance in 2002. I had 5 credit cards maxed out upto
20k at the time. Think I even had a CCJ
I realise it’s a long shot but is it worth a claim against them?
Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, you have absolutely no chance of winning a complaint about a pre-2007 loan. the Ombudsman had no jurisdiction to look at consumer credit complaints before that date.
Mark says
Hi Sara,
I have an open ombudsman complaint with Lending Stream and I already had a payment plan set up but I had to call them again to set up a lower amount as I wasn’t going to be able to make the next payment, is this going to affect my ongoing complaint in any way? Thanks