The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) gives you the right to be sent a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of your account for most loans, credit cards, catalogues, store cards and Hire Purchase agreements.
CCA agreements are important! If a creditor can’t find it then:
- you can’t get a CCJ for the debt; and
- you may decide to stop paying the debt.
But the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to:
- debts where there already is a CCJ;
- overdrafts,
- many household bills or tax debts;
- pre 2008 loans for more than £25,000;
- mortgages.
Sometimes asking for a CCA agreement is a good idea, but not always.
It shouldn’t normally be your first thought if you are having trouble paying a debt to the lender.
Asking for the CCA normally only works if your debt has been sold to a debt purchaser – unless the debt is very old.
Contents
How to ask for your CCA agreement
There is a template letter to ask for your credit agreement in this National Debtline factsheet. That factsheet also has a lot of information about CCA agreements and if you have any problems with one, talk to National Debtline.
This is not the same as templates asking for a copy of your personal information or making a Subject Access Request. If you want to find out if the debt is enforceable, use the specific CCA agreement wording.
Some points to be careful about:
- ask the current creditor for the CCA agreement, not the original creditor;
- you have to send a cheque or a postal order for £1;
- send the letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it and the postage receipt.
Also read the rest of this article first! You need to know what you will do if the lender sends you the agreement and what if the lender doesn’t.
What happens if they don’t send the CCA agreement?
If you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
If the creditor can’t easily find the CCA agreement they may send you an acknowledgement of your request. Something like the following is typical:
we acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information but as we have to request the details from the original lender we anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request.
A 40 day period is often mentioned but doesn’t have any legal standing.
It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.
I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them.
“Legal but not enforceable”
The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.
The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.
When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment. Here is what I suggested to a reader who was getting letters that left off this important fact: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”
Here are some more implications of the debt being legal but not enforceable:
- if you claim a PPI refund, this may be set off against the balance you still owe.
- the debt can still be sold to another debt collector. Make sure you keep all the CCA agreement letters or emails so you can just tell the new creditor you asked for the CCA agreement on dd/mm/yy and you won’t be paying anything to the debt until it is produced.
- you may be able to leave the debt out of an application for a Debt Relief Order so it won’t count towards the maximum debt limit. Talk to your DRO adviser about this.
- See below for the effect on your credit record.
“So I can just stop paying?”
If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.
But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months.
If the debt is in a DMP you will have to tell the DMP firm to stop paying it. Dent them the letter from the creditor saying they can’t locate the agreement.
You may find the idea of not paying scary. If you do, talk to National Debtline about this debt and the rest of your financial situation. It does help, being able to talk to a friendly expert!
I would allow the debt collector two or three months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found it in the first few months the chances of it turning up later are very low.
“The creditor hasn’t said it is unenforceable”
Occasionally a creditor will tell you they cant produce it but you are still legally liable for the debt which is true, but irrelevant – if they cannot produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court.
Sometimes the creditor goes into a lot of detail about how you have been paying so the debt isn’t statute barred. Also true but again irrelevant. You weren’t suggesting the debt was statute barred.
In this sort of situation, tell the creditor that you are not disputing whether you are liable for the debt or whether it is statute barred, but you would like the creditor to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have produced the CCA.
If the creditor persists with this, make a complaint and then send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Here is the story of a case involving an old HSBC debt, where HSBC had to pay compensation for not admitting the debt was unenforceable.
“What about my credit record?”
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? Check all three credit reference agencies to make sure.
If it isn’t on there, then it will never reappear, whether you pay it in full, in part or just stop paying.
A debt marked as defaulted will drop off 6 years after the default date:
- it will not drop off sooner because the CCA cannot be found;
- the balance will not normally be set to zero because the CCA cannot be found.
When the debt does not have a default date, if you stop paying now, a default will be added and it will then drop off in 6 years. Not good news! Read What should the default date be? and ask the original creditor to add a default date back years ago.
A default will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. And you shouldn’t want that to happen – it would mean the record would stay on your file for even if you stop paying.
The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it.
“Should I offer a low settlement amount?”
Some people decide to offer a low settlement amount. I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t need to do this! Not paying them anything is a perfectly good response in most cases! It is VERY VERY rare for a debt to turn up later.
A lot of creditors simply reject the low offer, even though you think it is sensible. They know that if they refuse you may decide to give them more. You cannot make a debt collector accept this low offer or complain they are being unfair if they don’t.
If you really want to make a settlement offer, stop paying them for a few months and then make the offer. That shows they can choose between your low offer and nothing.
The only time when you should try to get the debt settled is if it will still be showing on your credit record in a year or two when you want to apply for a mortgage. Then getting the debt marked as satisfied will help your mortgage chance a lot. But if the debt is no longer on your credit record or is dropping off soon, there is no need to do this.
What if they do send the CCA agreement?
How can you tell if it is right?
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
- your name and address when the account was opened;
- the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
- the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
- any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
It doesn’t have to have your signature on it. Indeed if you opened the account online you may well have signed it “digitally” and there is no document with your physical signature – this is perfectly legal.
If you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct, you can ask National Debtline about it or you could post about it on the Legal Beagles forum.
This may sound complicated but usually either the creditor admits they can’t find it or what they send you is fine.
What should you do when the CCA agreement is found?
This depends on why you were asking for the CCA agreement.
If the creditor has started a court case (you have been sent a Claim Form) then you may have hoped that the CCA agreement could not be found. But now you have it, that is not a possible defence so you need to think if you have another defence. Talk to National Debtline about your options.
If you were planning on making settlement offers to some debts and were hoping the lack of a CCA agreement could get this one settled very cheaply, that has been ruled out and you need to proceed with a more substantial offer.
If you are fed up with having to pay this old debt for many more years, look at your alternatives. If you just stop paying, you may get taken to court – especially as the creditor now has the CCA agreement ready to hand! If you have more luck with some other debts turning out to be unenforceable, can you now pay more to this one? Or is it time to look at insolvency or other options?
When should you ask for the CCA agreement – and when shouldn’t you?
A lot depends on your exact debts, who the original creditor was, who the debt collector is, and what your other options are for tackling them. So there isn’t a simple checklist here.
How old is the account and has it been sold?
The older an account is, the less likely it is that a CCA agreement will be found. It’s the age of the account that matters, not how old the debt problem is. You may have only defaulted on a catalogue account a couple of years old, but if it was opened in 2010 that’s well worth a try!
For a debt that is still with the original creditor, I wouldn’t bother asking for the CCA agreement unless the debt was VERY old or you are getting letters from solicitors about court action.
If a debt has been sold once it is less likely the current creditor can produce the CCA agreement. And this gets harder the more times the debt is sold on.
Court action and CCJs
If the creditor is seriously threatening court action, always ask for the CCA agreement. It is worth a try!
But when you already have a CCJ for a debt, it is too late to ask for the CCA agreement as the creditor doesn’t have to send it. If you have just found out about the CCJ you need to look at your options for “setting it aside“, not send a request for the CCA agreement.
Contacts about a very old debt you have heard nothing about for years?
If you haven’t been paying a debt for years and you aren’t being hassled by a creditor, you need a good reason to ask for the CCA agreement. It may be better to wait and see if you are contacted and then ask for the CCA.
But when you are contacted about a very old debt, asking for the CCA agreement is a very good idea. you should think first if the debt is statute barred, Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template you can send the creditor saying the debt is statute barred. This is simpler than asking for the CCA agreement.
But if the creditor comes back with a reason why it isn’t statute barred, then your next step should be to ask for the CCA agreement.
Hoping to settle debts with a windfall
If you have a windfall – an inheritance say – and you have a lot of debt in a DMP for several years so most of it is with debt collectors, asking for CCA agreements before you make offers is sensible. You don’t need to pay them anything if they cant produce the CCA.
Thinking about bankruptcy, a DRO or an IVA
Where insolvency (DRO, IVA or bankruptcy) looks necessary, it can be a waste of time asking for CCA agreements, unless not paying those debts would make the rest manageable.
Contacted about a debt which not yours
If a debt collector says you owe money but you don’t recognise the debt, you should send them a Prove It! letter saying you dispute the debt. Here the CCA is only part of the picture. You may get sent a copy of the CCA in answer to this – if the name and address on the agreement are yours and you did live at that property at that point, it is good evidence.
But keep focussed on the fact that what matters is proving who the borrower is.
Here is a case “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment” where a debt collector admitted the debt was unenforceable as the CCA couldn’t be found but wrongly still asked for payment.
Summary
In summary, asking for the CCA agreement is an uncertain process that can take months. If you have a lot of debts, make sure you are looking at the bigger picture, as well as thinking about the individual debts.
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
When to ask for a debt write off
Dee says
Hi Sara I will try to be brief BPO has taken over from Cabot a CCA was never issued from Cabot and the debt became unenforceable that was in 2019 I have the odd letter from Cabot and
have followed your advice with my correspondence ,I asked BPO for the CCA in april/may and only received a statement back about early June, yesterday I had a letter asking me if I had ever lived in a house with the number 3 and have put the account on hold for 30 days should I ask for the CCA again I did tell them that I would not be paying anything until the CCA was produced, they still haven’t told me that the account is unenforceable yet ,where shall I go from here and why are they asking me about the number 3 house.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you sure BPO has bought this debt? They are a debt colector that Cabot use, so it is more likely they are collecting on behalf of Cabot.
In which case you do not need to ask again for the CCA or respond to any of their questions except to say that Cabot have failed to produce the CCA, the debt is unenforceable and you will not be making any payments.
Matt C says
Hi – just wanted to add that having read your articles I asked for a number of CCAs against old debts with Lowells and after some considerable time they were only able to offer 1 of 5 accounts. Today they’ve emailed, after some chasing, confirming over £14500 now closed and credit file updated. Wanted to say thank you for the articles and advice on how to progress on this site. We politely enquired and got a positive result here. This makes a massive difference to our financial challenges in this household and is the most positive outcome we’ve had for years on getting our lives back on track. Thanks again.
Kaye says
Hi Sarah, I requested my CCA from Intrum on 11/06 and received a letter stating they will request it from Tesco but I’ve heard nothing since. How long do I leave it before I stop paying them and explain to Step Change why I’m not going to pay them anymore?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I normally suggest asking them after 2 or 3 months to confirm the debt is unenforceable – this picks up error where they have emailed / written to you with the CCA and and you haven’t received it. Then tell StepChange to stop. At this point it is still very possible the CCA will turn up.
Graham says
Hi Sara, not sure if this is something you can help with, but I got a reply after several weeks from the PRA group sending me a copy of the CCA. However it looks like it’s my application form that I initially sent in for a credit card. It doesn’t have an account number or any credit limit and does say “ if application is approved” The signature box that I signed however does state that this is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act. I have taken a photo, but don’t know how to send it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the section in the article above on How can you tell if it is right?
Louise says
Hi,
I had a loan with Natwest back in 2008. In the years since I have been paying this through a DMP with Payplan. They have recently attempted to file for a CCJ which I defended as I had requested the CCA and not received. I have sunce had a letter infirming me tgat Natwest are less than 10% certain any agreement they produce will be representative of the original agreement. However they are nit stating in the letter that the debt is unenforceable. Am i right in thinking that it is unenforceable. Should i advise them that i will not be paying or continue my payments within the DMP?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Natwest tried to take you to court? That’s really unusual.
Louise says
It’s via Equivo. Apparently they wrote to Payplan requesting an up to date income and expenditure form but they never advised me of the correspondence. The first i heard was when they sent me a precursor to the ccj. I asked Payplan and they advised me to just fill in an updated form via them. Luckily i found your site and followed the advise to request the CCA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So did the court case go ahead and you won? or did Equivo just withdraw the case when you asked for the CCA?
I guess the balance must be sizeable?
Louise says
Hi, they went ahead with proceedings in spite of not providing the CCA. Once I sent through my defence to the court they wrote to me advising they could not produce an accurate representation of the agreement, saying they may accept a Tomlin Order. It’s a £13k loan. As far as I can see the case hasn’t been withdrawn at this time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you had asked for a CCA and they had not produced it before they started court proceedings?
That is a very large debt. It may be possible to get a solicitor to take this case on a no win no fee basis.
Clare Colman says
Hi Sara could you advise me please
Lowell recently wrote to me as they have bought hoist and the debt they are stating I had a GE capital card back in 2009 and still owe the money only thing I can think of is I got an administration order back then for 3/4 debts and the court ordered my too pay £10 a month too pay the creditors after two years I got an attachment of earnings and it was increased too £30 a month I continued too pay that for anther 3 years so 5 years in total then revived a later I still have saying the debt was paid back from the court Lowell are not interested they said they will still continue too recover the debt any help or advice I would be very grateful for
Many thanks
Clare
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. This sounds as though the debt may be statute barred – too old to be enforceable in court. If National Debtline agree, they have a template letter you can send Lowell
Graham says
So, that looks like it could have been statute barred about 10 years ago. Is it usual for a debt company to still chase a debt even though it no longer exists after that many years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh yes… until you challenge them…
Jean says
Hi Sara
I have today received a letter from a solicitors regarding a debt that Lowell took from a catalogue I had from 2015. I believed I paid the catalogue off around 2018, but last year Lowell sent me a letter saying I owed over £3000. I challenged it, and I got a court letter about mediation. I done mediation 5 weeks ago and in that mediation I said to the lady that I believed I paid the catalogue off and I wanted to see the CCA as I never had a credit limit of over £500 so I didn’t understand where the £3000 came from.
The letter states that enclosed is
1: Reconstituted Agreement
2: Proof of default notice being sent (but this is just a print out of an excel spread sheet of a date and the words default notice
3 transaction statement (which is 6 pages long and could literally be anyone’s statement and I’m positive I only ever ordered about 10 things on there)
I am certain I paid the catalogue off and paid quite a large payment to pay it off and even on the mediation she came back after speaking to the company saying that they can see a large payment but there was still more owed on there. But in this letter it states we are unable to trace the requested evidence of payment.
They have said the default notice was sent on in May 2019. Literally 5 years ago.
What can I do Sara. It’s really knocked me back
Thanks for reading
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As this is a court case that is already in progress, I suggest you ask National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and also post on the Legal Beagles court forum: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues
Gavin says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for your invaluable help with my debts! I need advice as I plan to save for a mortgage in 2026.I have three credit card debts that defaulted in 2017/2018, all of which matured in 2024 and no longer appear on my credit file. I’ve been making £1 token payments for six years. All correspondence are written letters. Here are the debts:
1. MBNA: £5,855 – PRA Group (Default end: 30 Dec 2023)
2. Lloyds: £4,898 – Link Financial (Default end: 22 Mar 2023)
3. Halifax: £5,150 – Lowell Finance (Default end: 03 Jan 2024)
During this time I was offered F&F 30% settlement of the original debt amounts
In March 2024, I requested credit agreements and account breakdowns. Responses:
• Lowell (26 July 2024): Provided CCA agreement and statements.
• Link Finance (12 April 2024): Confirmed no £1 fee; no further correspondence.
• PRA Group (1 May 2024): Unable to provide the original agreement; classified the debt as unenforceable.
How should I proceed?
1. What are my options for the Lowell/Halifax debt now that I have the CCA?
2. Should I follow up with Link Finance about the Lloyds debt?
3. What are the implications of the PRA Group/MBNA debt being unenforceable? Should I cancel the token payment and offer a 3-5% settlement?
4. If I continue paying the tokens for two more years, will this impact my mortgage application?
Happy to provide more info if needed. Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Lets take the last one first…
4. If I continue paying the tokens for two more years, will this impact my mortgage application?
Definitely! A lender cares about your credit history and your debts, not your credit score. They ask for 3-6 months bank statements and they will see the monthly token payments and know you have uncleared defaulted debt.
So you HAVE to have stopped paying them at least 6 months before a mortgage application. And unless they are unenforceable, that means you have to have settled them. Partially settled is fine, this will not make the debts reappear on your credit record
1. What are my options for the Lowell/Halifax debt now that I have the CCA?
You need to settle it or partially settle it. And the sooner the better.
2. Should I follow up with Link Finance about the Lloyds debt?
yes. Ask them to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable, at which point I suggest you stop paying. If you want to make a low settlement offer, I suggest you stop paying for a couple of months first so they know What the alternative is. But they may reject a low offer – you may think that isnt rational – they know a lot of people will either carry on paying or make a larger offer.
3. What are the implications of the PRA Group/MBNA debt being unenforceable? Should I cancel the token payment and offer a 3-5% settlement?
yes stop paying. It’s unlikely they will accept a very low offer.
Gavin says
Thanks Sara.
From your experience, what ballpark % offer should I be offering for a F&F settlements with the information I have shared?
Regarding point 2. I will send a letter to confirm the position and if the debt is unenforceable.
When cancelling the token payment, what is the best approach? Do I inform the collector in writing and cancel the Direct debt setup.
Do I only stop paying the token payment if I am in a position to offer a F&F. I am currently not in a position to be offering settlements with the collector. I possibly could in a position in 2025 to offer settlements to collectors. What is the best approach. Thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have Lowell made you an offer?
Do you have any money saved now for F&F? If not, it’s all a bit academic. Just carry on on with your normal payments.
“Do I inform the collector in writing and cancel the Direct debt setup.”
yes. Say that as the debt is unenforceable you will not be making further payments.
“Do I only stop paying the token payment if I am in a position to offer a F&F.”
no. a F&F will have more chance of acceptance if you have already stopped paying. It is actually a long shot that the creditors will accept a low offer. they may simply refuse.
Gavin says
Thanks Sara.
No offer from Lowell in the past year.
All academic at the moment, but great advice.
Regarding the F&F settlement,
In your experience would the collectors take a 10-20% offer with a CCA.
If the debt in unenforceable, what would you expect to sensible offer. When I cancel and stop paying, will the collectors be offering me F&F settlements.
Also, do you have any template I can use to inform the collectors about cancelling the payment, or is it as simple as stating, due to the debt being unenforceable, I will don’t be continuing my token payment until such time CCA can be produced?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In your experience would the collectors take a 10-20% offer with a CCA
That depends on how much they think you can afford to pay. No simple answer.
If the debt in unenforceable, what would you expect to sensible offer.
personally I wouldnt bother. Keep your money to settle the enforceable debt
When I cancel and stop paying, will the collectors be offering me F&F settlements.
People don’t often report this.
No template – just send a 2 sentence email.
Gavin says
Thanks Sara.
I will need to engage with the collectors to settle the debt before making a mortgage application.
What is the best approach to communicated with the collectors after cancelling the token payment for unenforceable debt. For example it is Aug 25 and I have funds to pursue F&F settlements. Do I just sent a letter with an offer?
Regarding the Lowell debt, if they sent a settlement offer of 25%, can I negotiate the figure after their initial settlement offer.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you are hoping for a settlement of under 25% you may be unlucky. Are you saving up a house deposit at the same time?
Gavin says
I am saving for a deposit at the same time.
Do I send a letter with an offer and start negotiations. Ie: please see my offer of £x as a full and final settlement of the amount owed?
I check historical documents and Hoist prior to selling the Halifax debt to Lowell had offered a settlement of £1450 (28%) in May 22.
Is each collector different in its processes and settlement offers?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can try sending a n email or letter with an offer. If it is possible for you to arrange for the offer to come from a relative, that may be more likely to be accepted.
every debt collector is different but the main point is that your situation has changed for the better. When you make an offer a debt collector may want to go through your income & expenditure with you.
I suggest that the sooner you make an offer the better and that this should take priority over saving.
Gavin says
How do you position the offer from a relative or you had a windfall in cash
Ie: inheritance
Has the approach been successful for member in the past?
Eg: a relative is willing to pay £500 as a full and final settlement offer to close the account
I recently was gifted £500 in inheritance . I want to offer £500 as a full and final settlement to close this account.
Also, if you are economically inactive or unemployed, will this effect the settlement offer and process
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you are out of work, you should ask to reduce the payments to nothing until you are back in work.
Gavin says
Would you not continue with the £1 token payment?
Regarding the relative and windfall offer, would I structure it like I said above. Thanks again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You just say something sensible about your situation.
Have you lost your job? If you haven’t, come back and ask if this happens.
Gavin says
Thanks for the great advice
I will send those letter off to the companies and update in due course.
Keith Plummer says
On the question of CCAs, is there any significance to the 2006 or 2007 date for the agreements being unlikely to be provided on request? Why are these dates, in particular, quoted so often? Did something change in 2006 or 2007 that made CCAs less likely to be produced? And when you mention ‘old debts’ or ‘very old debts’, can you please suggest how old for each of these categories?
Also, what are the typical reasons for debts this old not having CCAs available? We’ve been in a digital age for at least 20 years, and so I’m curious as to why anything pre-2007 is likely not to have a CCA available. Additionally, given there is so much more awareness now from debtors requesting CCAs for old debt, have debt purchasers not now reacted to this growing trend by insisting on receiving CCAs when they buy debt from the debt sellers? It would seem obvious for them to do this to guard against the risk they face of not being able to enforce the debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Major amendments were made to the Consumer Credit Act in April 2007. “Before 2007” is often used as shorthand for before the April 2007 changes. If a pre 2007 agreement is produced, it may be easier to challenge as being unenforceable. You will need advice on this which I do not give.
“Old” is normally used to suggest that it is less likely that an agreement can be produced. This is just a matter of fact. there may be many reasons and they won’t help you in deciding how likely it is that your CCA agreement will or will not be produced.
Debt purchasers probably pay less for a book of debts which they buy without the CCAs and without being able to go back and ask for the CCAs. It is a commercial trade-off – is it worth paying more in order to be able to satisfy the small number of CCA requests they get?
Keith Plummer says
Thanks very much for the detail and explanation. So, essentially, you’re saying that pre-2007 CCAs are both less likely to be produced (because ‘older’ agreements are, by their nature, harder to retrieve) and less likely to be successfully enforced (because of the 2007 Consumer Credit Act amendments)? I’m presuming that the main reason for older CCAs being more challenging to retrieve is that, due to the passing of time, records are archived or transferred to new locations and thus misplaced etc. Is that a fair assumption?
Thanks very much for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would have thought there could be many reasons and I cant guess which are the most common.
Keith Plummer says
Not asking you to guess at all. You’ve said that older agreements are less likely to be produced. So I’m interested in understanding why this is so? Are the reasons I’ve given some of the reasons you believe account for your view that older agreements are less likely to be produced? Or are there other reasons? I’m just trying to get a sense of the rationale behind the belief that older agreements are harder to retrieve, that’s all. It’s helpful to understand some of the likely reasons. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you will need to ask a variety of creditors then. Creditors don’t explain why they can’t produce a CCA so I have no evidence to answer your question on.
And I don’t think this is helpful anyway. Knowing what can happen and what often happens doesn’t change the fact the only way to find out what actually happened with your debts is to ask for the CCAs.
Keith Plummer says
With respect, I think it is you who is saying that older agreements are less likely to be produced (which makes complete sense to me). This is your view and so the view of creditors isn’t really the issue here. So I’m politely asking what is making you arrive at the conclusion that older agreements are less likely to be produced? I appreciate you have your own view about what is and isn’t helpful. But I’m just asking the question because I believe it is helpful to me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m politely asking what is making you arrive at the conclusion that older agreements are less likely to be produced?
What I have seen from people asking for the CCAs and the experience of other debt advisers – I don’t know anyone that disputes this. But it is very possible for an extremely old CCA to be produced. And for a pretty new one not to be. I do not keep records so I am not prepared to guess at the probabilities.
And knowing a CCA can’t be produced tells me NOTHING about why the creditor could not produce the CCA. So I won’t speculate on that. It is VERY rare for a creditor to explain.
I am calling an end to this thread.
Gemma says
Hi Sara,
I have a DMP that’s been in place since 2009. Just checked and there are 10 creditors, all the accounts appear to have been sold on to companies Cabot financial, CapQuest, CRS, Moorcroft, NCO & PRA a fair few times over the years. I was thinking of CCA’ing all of them, the highest debt is £13k for a Northern Rock loan taken out in 2005 for £25k. That’s the only one I’m unsure of sending the letter too in case they come screaming at me for a settlement.
My finances are solid now and I’m preparing for a mortgage in 2026, so I don’t want anything to happen that could destroy my credit file I’ve worked hard (with the help on your site) to clean up.
Before
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have to get these debts settled 6 months before a mortgage application – otherwise the mortgage lender will see the DMP being paid on your bank statement.
Who currently owns the Northern Rock debt? Was this originally a Together loan? How large was the loan?
Keith c says
Hello
I have been paying a debt to lloyds at 5 pounds a week for the last 10 years maybe longer ihave asked for the credit agreement and sent 1 pound postal order. They returned it and said its not required. Today I got sent the following letter.
Dear Mr ———-
We refer to your attached letter.
You have not quoted a valid credit card number and we cannot trace your account with the details provided
Once you have provided us with a valid 16 digit account number, we will be able to assist you with your enquiry
If you are unable to provide us with this, please supply us with as much information as possible such as
Full address details (including previous addresses) Any change of name Date account opened
. .
Please be aware that Section 78 only applies during the lifetime of an agreement. If your account has been closed and paid in full, then there would no longer be a regulated agreement between us
In view of the above we are unable to provide you with documentation as requested
Yours sincerely
Card Operations
I recieve a statement every year I still owe about 1700 pounds
I don’t realy understand how they don’t no what the account details.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what details did you provide them with?
Laura says
Hi sara my amigo debt is now with lantern they have got back to me with my default information i will paste below i still dont understand what it means about how they report and how it will show if you could help please
Lantern
We can confirm we hold the default date of 20/02/2019 and it will remain on your credit file for a period of six years and this is reported on a monthly basis.
We would also not directly add any markers to reflect that a payment arrangement has been put in place. The details of any active payment arrangement would be reflected by the continued reduction in balance.
Also it just shows missed payments from amigo
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what shows on your credit records at the moment – is there an entry from Amigo? From Lantern?
Has the debt just been sold to Lantern or was it sold last year?
Laura says
No everything is still the same in terms of amigos on there and a missed payment reported last month
Its been a few months this year march/april maybe but it took a while to set everything up with them in terms of payment arrangement and im on to my second payment coming but in terms of the reporting thats the information i have
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this your only problem debt?
Laura says
Yes it is thankfully now but it does seem more problematic compared to other debts and having a solution to them as i dont know if it stays on my report permanently as missed payments
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you have two options.
First is to try to get Amigo to add a default date on 20/02/19, then it will drop off after 6 years. The problem with this is it may not be at all easy to get Amigo to do this and they may simply refuse, and tell lantern that there was no default, which would be bad news for you.
The second is to wait until next year when the scheme has finished and Amigo is being liquidated. At that point you make sure Lantern has a default date of 20/02/19. And make a complaint to the Credit Reference Agencies saying Amigo has reported it wrong and this is the proof – the email from Lantern… You don’t want to try this to early – you want to wait until Amigo won’t be responding to any questions from the CRAs.
Laura says
Ok yes amigo has point blank refused to add the default so im leaning to the second option i have the email of lantern confirming the default date so if this is not added by them do i simply just complain to the CRA agencies with this information what date do you suggest i do this please next year? And thankyou again for this help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It depends on how things go… I suggest you ask me again in about March
Sharon says
Your informative article confirms the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to mortgages. Can you kindly please explain why this doesn’t apply to mortgage credit? Is there any specific legislation I can read which confirms this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This summarises why mortgage contracts are not covered by the CCA: https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/possession_and_eviction/mortgage_possession_proceedings/legal_framework_for_mortgage_arrears_repossession#title-1
The relevant legislation is https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/8 and https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/544/article/60C
Adam says
Hi Sarah, thanks for these FAQs, I have found them invaluable over the years.
Ive recently contacted a debt collector over a debt I have with them – PRA Group with a debt I used to have with Barclays. Theyve indirectly admitted they dont have my CCA as they have said they have asked Barclays for it. Is it fair to wait until Christmas before deciding not to pay any more?
Also the debt is very old to the point its fallen off my credit report. Do I just ignore forever now?
Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s up to you how long to wait. At the moment they may well find the CCA. After a couple of months that is less likely.
Adam Savage says
Is there any mileage in trying to claim back monies paid if the debt collectors cannot produce a CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. The debt still legally exists
Chris says
Dear Sara,
I have many very old credit card debts (pre 2010) which have all been sold to debt collection agencies.
I made unaffordable and irresponsible lending complaints after finding your website which were all rejected and I took them to the FOS. All but one was upheld by the FOS and the debt wiped!
My question is, if I request the CCA and if they can’t produce it and I stop paying the debt, but they persist in saying I have to pay it, can I still make a complaint to the FOS as I understand you can only make a complaint once to the FOS about a particular matter, and once they issue their findings it’s final.
Or would this count as a separate issue, even if it relates to the same debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Complaining about a creditors actions when a debt is unenforceable because they can’t produce the CCA has nothing to do with your previous affordability complaint.
Chris says
Thank you for your reply.
And just for clarity, all my previous unaffordable and irresponsible lending complaints, only ONE was upheld by the FOS (my question incorrectly stated the opposite).
The lender refunded the interest and charges and then wiped the rest of the debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then ask for the CCAs for them all!
Kenny says
Hi Sara
(1) credit card (1) debt – Not statute barred – I’ve never had (1) Default notice (2) Letter of claim (3) Claim pack
The debt has allegedly been sold on
All of the information that the new company has is available online – I already had this information
Opening account date and address wrong – 6 months of payments also wrong – Default too
I paid 3 years prior to the 6 months that I know I didn’t pay but it states I did ( I’m wanting to ask for evidence ) As I could also state £200 was paid
To add some some confusion within 2 weeks of this letter arriving i applied for a brand new account with the original company i was given the new account with a credit limit of more than was allegedly owed & various other accounts
Obviously my first thought was they the new company were or had just copied and pasted my information from credit agencies which they do have access to and could see it was actually due to drop off after 6 years – Which was oddly the time I received the letter ( But the default date should have meant it wouldn’t have )
My limited understanding – I’ve passed various credit checks for various cards and they’re happy to give me a credit account – so even with a default showing it means very little
Once you’re given the accounts they won’t keep searching your credit file
When the debt was taken out I was homeless and had no income via benefits or employment
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it looks as though you are replying to some questions, but I am not sure what?
could you reword this more clearly? Say who the original lender was and who the current creditor is.
Opening account date and address wrong – 6 months of payments also wrong – Default too
I paid 3 years prior to the 6 months that I know I didn’t pay but it states I did ( I’m wanting to ask for evidence ) As I could also state £200 was paid
i have no idea what this means. Please state the right dates and payment amounts and default date for the original debt.
when were you first contacted by the debt collector? have you made any payments to them? have you asked for the CCA agreement?
if it was a bad credit lender, they may well have offered you a new account after what ,4,5,6 years? Not really relevant to what happened to the original debt.
Kenny says
Hi sorry I had to shorten it
The account I opened last century I know the address obv name
The debt was taken out 2017/18 I paid every month until July 21
June 24 I received a letter saying someone else owns the debt
I had had no contact from the original company
No default notice letter of claim claim pack
I know the details they have are wrong – Opened account name address 6 months of payments so the default date is wrong I believe
In 2 weeks of my debt being sold ( I’m not sure it was ) I applied and got a new credit account with original company
I believe that original company don’t have the address year I opened the account
If I just do nothing what could happen to me – already a default yet I am being given new accounts 22K limit all included
Hope that’s clearer I can add more if needs be
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt was it originally?
why did you stop paying in 2021, do you have other problem debts?
what is the balance now?
Kenny says
what sort of debt was it originally?
Credit card offering money transfer
why did you stop paying in 2021,
I had been homeless the final year in a hostel – I had a key worker as I’m classed as vulnerable they said that would getting me on breathing space
So I believed that that’s what had happened
But this adds to my belief that the company who say they have brought it has my current address no body would have it as I moved in from the hostel. The only thing that I was named n is water rates I believe this maybe a way they got it
As on my credit report it has another address
Do you have any other problem debt
no other problem debts this is the omit one but I’m paying off others on interest free with the new accounts
what is the balance now?
2500
do you have other problem debts?
what is the balance now?
why did you stop paying in 2021, do you have other problem debts?
what is the balance now?
I also don’t own any property no savings
Also when I took the debt on I was homeless not working also not claiming benefits
So I would struggle to have paid it anyhow
It’s confusing me and I know what I’m trying to say/ask
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are over thinking this. It is highly likely that the debt was sold. As the debt is 20+ years old, just send a CCA request to the creditor writing to you, use the link given in the article above. If they can’t produce it, the debt is unenforceable.
Kenny says
Hi Sara
You’re quite correct I am overthinking this – For the simple reason it doesn’t make any sense to me just (1) reason I’m asking for your input so thank you
Everything that is on my credit report is wrong and I never as I’ve said received letters about default
But we are here so I’ll just do what is needed to be done – Should I come out and say everything you have is wrong bar my name ?
Or wait a treat it like as and when needed I do have someone representing me ( sounds a tad formal it’s not )
Im 100% on when I opened the account and address as it was pre internet
Until this year I’ve never applied for a credit card by using the internet – Only ever had 2 until this year
My bank and the one I’m talking about
The debt isn’t 20 years old the debt 2017/18
The account is over 20 as it was last century
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Credit records can be inaccurate. What matters is whether you actually owe this debt and whether it is enforceable in court.
When you opened the bank account is irrelevant.
Did you open this credit card account in 2017/18 – in a branch, online, on the phone doesn’t matter, did you open this account?
who was the credit card l;ender?
who is the current creditor?