People often ask if they have to carry on making payments to an old debt. This can happen as it’s too easy to get stuck in a long-term Debt Management Plan (DMP), paying little each month so the debts will take forever to repay.
This article looks at questions about debts in long-term debt management.
Do I have to pay a debt that has dropped off my credit file?
A debt drops off your credit file six years after the default date. Most debts in a low payment DMP will have been defaulted (if one of yours hasn’t, read What should the default date for a debt be? because you may be able to get this changed) so after six years these literally disappear and your credit score improves.
But these debts still exist. Even though they are old, they will never become “statute barred” (that is the legal term for a debt that is too old for a creditor to enforce – see When is a debt statute barred? for more details) because you are making payments to them. So if you don’t want hassle from the debt collector that owns the debt, and then possibly CCJs, bailiffs etc, then the answer is Yes, you do need to keep paying the debt.
If the debt is very old, the documentation may be missing
There is another possibility for really old debts that is worth exploring. If the debt is a consumer credit debt – that is all types of loans, credit cards and catalogues but not including overdrafts – then the debt collector may not be able to produce correct Consumer Credit Act documentation. This is most likely to happen for debts that were started before 2007. If they can’t, then they can’t take you to court for a CCJ and you can simply stop paying…
This National Debtline factsheet explains how to ask the debt collector to send you the CCA agreement. And National Debtline are good people to talk to if you are sent something and you aren’t sure if it is correct or complete.
Am I likely to get a CCJ for an old debt?
If you carry on paying, it is possible that you could get a CCJ. This may feel unfair – you have had a long-term arrangement with your creditor and you have kept your side of the agreement by making monthly payments – but legally the creditor can still get a CCJ. However, your debt is costing very little to administer anymore so the debt collector will often prefer to carry on getting small amounts of money from your DMP each month to the expense of taking court action.
If your debt is sold to another debt collector, they may decide to look again at your credit file and your income and expenditure. If you don’t supply these details the new debt collector may decide you could be paying more and go for a CCJ.
You are a bit more likely to get a CCJ if you have a house – a creditor can see from your credit file if you have a mortgage and may assume that equity has built up. The odds are that you won’t, but having a long term DMP with a house with a lot of equity can be a problem.
If you stop paying the debt, then it is much more likely the debt collector will go for a CCJ. Think of your creditor as snoozing quietly whilst your small monthly payments roll in – as soon as they stop, he is likely to wake up and rethink what to do! Recently the number of CCJs has increased a lot – up to 300,000 in January-March 2017.
If I get a CCJ will the debt reappear on my credit file?
After a debt has dropped off it will never come back. But this isn’t good news because the CCJ itself will show on your credit file for six years, even if you settle it in full. (There is one an exception here – if you pay a CCJ in full within 30 days it will disappear.)
Is it a good idea to negotiate Full & Finals on these debts?
Definitely! Even if paying £5 a month to a debt doesn’t feel like much of a problem, it is always possible the debt collector will threaten court action and ask for more.
If a final settlement is agreed, the debt will not reappear on your credit file. A Guide to Full and Final Settlements has more information, including how to make an offer. If your debts have changed hands several times, the current creditor may have paid very little for the debt, possibly only pennies in the pound. But it’s not easy to say what you should offer – that will depend on:
- what you are currently paying – if the debt will be repaid in four years the creditor isn’t going to be interested in a 20% offer;
- what you could afford to pay – it will help to get an offer accepted if you provide an Income& Expenditure sheet that shows you can’t afford to increase your monthly payments;
- whether you may have a house with equity – this doesn’t mean a F&F will be refused, but it makes it less likely that a very low one will be agreed.
Where could you get the money for a F&F? Two ideas that may work if you have had a lot of debts are getting a payday loan refund and reclaiming PPI – give it a go even if you don’t think you have ever had PPI (many people were signed up without realising it) or you aren’t sure it was mis-sold!
Can you get a mortgage if you are in a DMP?
Information about charging orders
Can you reclaim PPI in debt management?
RussG says
I have an old debt that defaulted in January 2011 (so over 6 years ago) and haven’t heard anything for years as the company went into liquidation.
I’ve recently been presented with a county court claim with a hearing date along with all the original paper works etc. A family member who has something similar said that as the default is over 6 years old, then the debt is ‘statue barred’ and not enforceable.
They was communication with them, via writing in January 2011 and they have produced half a word document which I’ve never seen before and has no record of my name on it – there is no acknowledgement of the debt whatsoever.
I am able to counter claim with the above information and if I do so, should I go on the basis of statue barred?
So my question being – are they in a position of power over this matter and do I have to attend the court hearing?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi RussG,
first a bit of technical jargon, because it’s good to get this right when you are talking to people about Money Claims. A counterclaim would be if you said the person suing you actually owed you £x,000 for some reason. “Being statute barred” is a defence to a claim, not a counterclaim.
I am puzzled you think there is a hearing date – are you sure you are reading this correctly? Normally no hearing date is set until you have entered a defence – have you?
I can’t tell from what you have written if the debt is statute barred – what matters is not what the default date is but when the last payment to the debt was and what this “half a word document” says. I suggest you contact National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and they can talk through if the debt is statute barred, whether there are any other reasons you may have to defend the claim and how you should respond. Do this asap as the timescales are tight.
If you are defending a case there may need to be a hearing but this can be transferred to your local County Court.
RussG says
Hi Sara,
It’s a 52 page document so too a while to digest!
So – the claimant (debt company) are chasing for this debt from 2007. This defaulted in Jan 2011 and no communication has been made with them since then, nor has there been any payments to them.
Based on the dates, am I right in saying this is ‘statute barred’ and therefore they cant enforce anything from now?
I have to respond to the courts within a certain time frame and if I respond along the lines of:
“I do not admit liability for this debt, and I do not intend to make any further payments to it for the following reasons:
– The earliest point at which you could have sued for the full balance owing to this debt was more than six years ago
– No payment has been made to this debt by me, any joint account-holder, or any third party acting as my agent for a period of more than six years
– No written admission of liability for this debt has been made by me, or any third party acting as my agent for a period of more than six years
This debt is therefore statute barred and any court claim to recover it will be defended on this basis. ”
Would you advise this is correct?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“This debt is therefore statute barred and any court claim to recover it will be defended on this basis.” You can’t put that in as your defence! I am advising you to talk to National Debtline not pull some useful sounding sentences from the internet.
Katie says
I have an old Nationwide loan, which I took out in November 2012, a default was added in January 2014. Ive struggled to pay the debt back and currently do not have a repayment plan set up.
I’ve received a letter from Nationwide today however asking if I agree to a Notice of Correction being added to my account, with the following wording ‘please note that this default relates to an agreement which the creditor considers to be unenforceable’
What does this actually mean? Do I have to continue to pay the debt back? Will this work in my favour in the long term?
Marilyn says
I gave been on a dmp for years with various debts,i was paying £300a month until recently when i had to reduce my hrs as my husband needed care.
I am 70 years old and now struggling with this and am able to now pay£150to stepchange but some of them are not happy an are now resorting to colletios they are now pestering me again.iam70years old not ingood health myself
Dont know how much longer i can work any suggestions to help please
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds difficult for you. How much do you still owe? Are you buying or renting?
Nick A says
i have just received a letter from a company that has bought a debt that i was unaware i owed having sent a cheque in Feb 2006 for final payment, they are claiming that I owe 5900, also that I made a payment in March 2012, which was impossible as I was residing outside the UK, and as I said was under the impression the debt was paid. I spoke with them on the phone denying the debt or any knowledge of it since 2006. In the letter I stated that if such a debt were to exist that it would be Statute Barred as the time scale involved. my only fear now is their claim that I made a payment in 2012. I was living in the U.S.A at the time as we had since 2006.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them that you deny you made a payment as you were living outside the UK, which you can prove.
James Connolly says
Hi, I have a number of defaulted accounts on my credit file which are due to drop off soon (6 years nearly up), due to these defaulted accounts my credit rating is Poor. Once they drop off, will my rating shoot up straight away. I have a high interest credit card, which i have payed off monthly for last 4 years, and all other accounts are up to date with no missing payments. I am registered on electoral register at my home address for 4 years. This the defaulted accounts gone, i feel id be rated good or excellent! Am i missing something?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your credit record should improve a lot when the last of them go. From what you have said it would be good or better :)
BUT (and I now this isn’t your question) if you haven’t repaid these debts you could still get a CCJ for them which would wreck your credit record for another 6 years :( So if you are currently paying them, you need to carry on, or make a partial settlement offer.
Phil says
Hi, I ran up debts around 10 years ago. About 9 years ago I agreed to pay an amount for 5 years – I’ve paid these and still maintained them until now. Basically I’ve paid over 3 years more back than I said I would.
When I made the offer of paying £50 a month all that time ago the company responded that they will accept the payment of £50 but said they would review the term. Basically what I am saying is I dont have the 5 year term confirmed in writing. How do I go about stopping the payment and reducing it without them coming after me – have I any course of action open to me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debts are these – credit cards and loans? Whan did you open the accounts – not when you ran into problems, but when did you open them?
Phil says
Sorry for the delay in responding, they where a mixture, mainly credit cards – is there a diffence? I opened the accounts prior to 2007 I think.
Obviously I’ve been paying with no issue for a long time and I want to stop now as I’ve paid loads more than if I’d gone into a IVA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the debts are credit cards or loans (not overdrafts) then you can ask the debt collector to produce the CCA agreement for the debt. If they can’t (and that may well happen, especially if the debts are pre 2007) then the debt is unenforceable in court and you can simply stop paying. More about this, including a template letter, here https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx.
Phil says
Hi, a quick update on my post, I’ve had a response from one company and they have cancelled my direct debit whilst they look into it so I reckon they’ve not got a copy of the CCA – they other hasn’t responded yet. How long do they get before I can safely cancel my other Direct debit – I heard something about they have to respond in 12 days and it’s past that now
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the creditor does not send you a copy of your agreement and a statement of account within 12 working days, then they can’t start court action against you until you do so. Personally I would be inclined to wait a month, but it’s up to you.
Phil says
Hi, I’ll wait the 1 month to be safe, as mentioned one has cancelled it already – heard nothing from the other. Should I leave it for one month after the 12 days is up or including the 12 days ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Up to you. It’s a trade off between not paying them more than you have to vs the hassle you might get if they do turn up with the agreement.
Phil says
Hi, one of the firms has cancelled the direct debit so that looks like its gone away, the other (Capquest) suspended it at first but I notice they took a payment in September without sending me the CCA – I received (yesterday) just a print out with a letter saying basically here’s a copy of the statement from our client as I requested – its not a CCA just a print out of the debts I ran up and payments prior to Capquest buying the debt I assume.
The question I’ve got is I assume they shouldn’t have taken the September payment so I’m going to cancel my DD now – is there any mileage in trying to get that payment back??
but also, its way past the deadline from them to produce the CCA so am I okay to cancel the DD?? Should I write to them telling them I’ve cancelled it and the reason why?
Thanks form your help on this
Phil
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think there is any chance of getting the September payment back – the debt still legally exists even if it isn’t enforceable.
I suggest you cancel the DD and tell capquest why. Explain you will be happy to resume payments if they produce the CCA agreement.
re the other firm. You might want to do the same, cancelling the DD with your bank and telling them why.
If you are unsure about this, I suggest talking to National Debtline who can explain the situation. There is a risk that they will find the CCA at some point and then they can go to court. But you said you wanted to stop the payments originally and this is now a practical option. If you do this, expect to get the odd reminder letter that you still owe the money. And do inform them if you move – you don’t want any chance that court papers will go to a previous address when you have a good defence against a CCJ.
Phil says
Quick up date – I wrote to Capquest stating the fact the documents are not the CCA and I was cancelling my direct debit. I told them they’d took one payment after they had wrote to me saying it was suspended – to my massive surprise they actually sent me a cheque back for the exact DD amount.!
Jenny burt says
Hi. My partner got a loan in for £5000. Which is why as defaulted in 2010.
He had a call from a loan collector, asking for payment who claim they have bought the information an that they have sent a letter to him. He has no letter and has lived at the same address for a long time.
What should he do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If he hasn’t paid anything to this since 2010 the debt may well be statute barred – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/ which says what your options are.
Tracey says
Hi, new to this forum and some of the reads are really interesting and seen some great feedback. Could really do with some advise please …
I initally took out a picture loan 28/02/2007 for £43,000. This over time was transferred to Idem Servicing but on 28/04/09 i started a debt management programme for some other loans, credit cards etc (which i am still in). I am really struggling with my initial picture loan but this is secured against my property, each month is a real strain and it is taking forever to pay. I have worked out that to date over the past 10 years about £35,000 has been added in interest and I have paid back approx £69,000. I still have approx £11,000 remaining and each month interest is still being added after deducting my payment (approx £305). There have been occasions over the past 10 years where default notices have been issued and also add on’s for home visits (which never happened). I am now also getting additional arrears interest alongside since April 2016. I suppose my question is, is there anything I can do or even better to have the interest since starting my debt management programme reimbursed as I am at breaking point with this loan now ? Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this secured loan included in your DMP? Are you using a firm to run the DMP – if so who?
How much equity is there in your house after taking off the mortgage and the secured loan?
The other debts in the DMP excluding this secured loan – what are they? How large are they now?
Tracey says
The secured loan is not in my plan with Payplan, they are aware of it but cannot really help as this is secured, they are aware though that I pay the £305 each month towards this. The house is worth approx £80/90,000 and I have approx £28,000 left to pay.
There are approx £20,000 on my DMP and £11,000 owed to Idem.
I can see that there should be equity in the house to pay everything off but I did call and speak to my mortgage lender and it all got confusing. They said that if there was an IVA against me then it would not be possible to release money. I dont even know what this is, do i have this as i am on a DMP ?
Sorry if i sound really stupid. The Idem secured loan is also in my partners name which is why I have also been reluctant to pay this off. He is really why i am in all this mess but thankfully the house was solely purchased in my name.
many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can’t have an IVA without knowing it – check your credit record with Noddle – it’s free and any IVA would show up there.
So what are the debts that are left on the DMP? Are they credit cards and loans? When were these accounts opened, could you list the original creditor, whether it is now with a debt collector and the approx date you opened the account, not when you defaulted.
Tracey says
I dont really know there are 10 in total which are credit cards and bank loans etc…. Have not got a clue really when the account were opened, just that I went with Payplan on 28/04/2009
There is Halifax, Aqua, Lloyds TSB and Capital One. My PayPlan only show who the debt collectors are :-
ARC (Europe) Ltd
Apex Credit Management
Arvato Financial solutions
Direct Legal & Collections
Lowell Financial Ltd
Moorcroft Group Plc
Moorcroft Group Plc
PRA Group Ltd
Paragon Personal Finance Ltd
Vanquis Bank Ltd
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK well I suggest the best thing you can do is ask each of the debt collectors in your DMP to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the debt. There is a template letter here you can use: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx and you will have to send them a cheque for £1.
If they can’t produce the agreement – and for debts that old there is a very good chance some of them won’t be able to – then the debt is unenforceable in court and you can tell Payplan to stop paying them.
Have you seen if you can reclaim any PPI on these debts? This is well worth trying. A refund may be taken off the balance or sometimes it will come to you so you could use it to pay off the secured loan. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ppi-out-of-debt/ and do not use a claims firm as that explains.
Tracey says
yes I have tried already through a firm a few years ago now stake your claim and I passed over the details I had unfortunately they said there was nothing. Thanks for the advise with regards to the consumer credit act agreement, i will give that a try next i think. I have just been on Noodle and have a score of 512 which was expected not to be great. Does the IVA show under section 10 if I had one (notices of correction). Nothing in there No CIFAS no bankruptcies and insolvencies and no judgements are recorded.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
An IVA would show under Insolvency. I am not surprised it isn’t there, I have no idea what your bank was talking about. Anyway, get going on the CCA documentation and let’s hope some of those can’t be found!
Phil says
Thanks, I’ll pay the next direct debit and then that’ll give me nearly another month to cancel it if they don’t turn up the CCA. If I do that it’ll be over 8 weeks so I should be completely fine. Any other things for me to consider? Thanks for your advice and I’ll let you know how I get on
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not really, it’s just waiting and seeing what they come back with. How many have you sent?
Phil says
I’ve only got two and the people I’m paying to are not the original companys – they are cap quest and Robinsons. Robinsons are the ones that have already cancelled the direct debit. Nothing from capquest so far.
Beth morgan says
Hi, I had some debts from 2006 when i bought a house at 18 years jumped straight in to the deep end in 2004,. well anyway i sold the house in 2006 and was left with a couple of debts. which i went into a debt management plan but 1 debt i tried to make up a plan with would not have any money from me sent a copy of my marriage certificate to them as loan was taken in my maiden name, cab tried helping me. I noticed yesterday that were the loan showed on my credit rating as closed it has gone all together so does that mean it has gone for good of my credit file. As last week a company sent a letter out to me saying that i was mis sold ppi and i am entitled to ppi on £18000 but i did not pay the last £2000 off and i do not want to go through that if it opens the debt back up.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of loan was this? when did you last make a payment to it?
Beth morgan says
I took the loan out in 2005 it was a secure loan, so when i sold the house i payed all of it off except the £2000 that was left i made the last payment in 2006 when i sold the house.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok as it is a secured loan it will probably be 12 years from the last payment until it is statute barred. So best not put in a PPI claim before 2018, probably start 2019.
Beth morgan says
I use clearscore and i always check it monthly and had my new monthly update yesterday and the closed ge loan has gone all together i can not find it all my other debt is there but showing a balance of £0 as it has all been paid in my closed accounts. Just confusing as my score jumped up by 57 points as well.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Things drop off credit records 6 years after a default. That doesn’t mean that the debt itself has gone. Most debts become statute barred after 6 years, but for secured loans, it’s longer, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/. If you make a PPI claim the debt isn’t statute barred, then they can again start chasing you for the debt, so it’s best to wait until it is definitely statute barred before making a PPI complaint.
PS do the PPi complaint yourself in early 2019… don’t waste money with a claims company
Katie says
HI I have read the responses regarding acquiring copies of the CCA for credit cards or loans, if the debt has been bought by a third party Debt Collection Agency and they can’t send a copy of the CCA would they not be able to enforce collection of the debt or apply for a CCJ? I have got six debts which are for a mixture of catalogues and credit cards, some of these have been bought by Debt Collection Agencies and some are still held by banks. At the moment I am paying a nominal payment of £1 per month to each of them, but as they total nearly £30,000 and I am now 62, there is no chance they will be repaid in my lifetime. I do have a mortgage which I changed to interest only following losing my job due to ill health in 2010 and there is equity in it, but I don’t want to move and would probably struggle to get another mortgage if I did. All but one of the debts has dropped off my credit file and I think the one that is still there should have dropped off, but I think the third party sent another default notice to me when they took over the debt so that one will not drop off until 2019. I can’t see myself ever being in a position to pay more than the nominal £1, do you think it is worth me just carrying on doing this or would it be worth me asking for copies of the CCAs and if any of them can’t produce them, stop making the payments to these companies? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though it is worth asking for CCAs. The older the accounts are, the more likely the creditor is to have problems producing it, but you may as well ask for the lot.
If a creditor can’t produce the CCA, then they can’t take you to court for the debt – whether it is still owned by the original lender or now a debt collector. So you can stop paying. the debt isn’t wiped out and there is a slim chance they could later find the CCA, but as you can guess that is very rare so I wouldn’t worry about that.
Template letters here and note that you have to pay a £1 when you ask for the CCA.
I’m going to be writing a full article about this in the next few weeks, so look out for it!
Katie says
Thanks Sara
I think they were all started before 2002, so hopefully none of them should be available.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well worth trying – let us know how you get on!
Diane Williams says
Hi
I have several debts totalling appx £12k. One of the debts is a credit card – Barclaycard taken out in 1989.
I requested the CCA and last week received a reconstituted agreement. I got this checked over on another forum and was informed it is unenforceable due missing prescribed terms.
I would like to make F&F offers to my creditors, but so far they have all rejected offers of 45%.
Would you recommend I write to Barclaycard informing them that I believe the CCA is unenforceable an re-offer the 45%?
I have also put a claim in for PPI, so just waiting to hear back from them. I haven’t made a payment on this account since 2013 and it defaulted early 2014. I read that if I am entitled to PPI refund it will be paid to my debt…. would this then affect the date this debt will fall from my credit file?
TIA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you defaulted on all the debts? Have they been sold to debt collectors? Which are you making payments to? And which have you made a PPI claim on?
And which online forum told you a CCA agreement was not compliant?
Diane says
Hi Sara,
My debts are all defaulted since 2013/2014. I haven’t made any payments since 2013.
I have claimed PPI on an overdraft and on the credit card debt with Barclaycard.
The debts are all still with original creditor.
it was all about debt forum who checked my CCA
Thanks
Julie says
Please could you help me. I had a credit card which was eventually after years taken over by Barclaycard. In 2010 / 2011 we got into financial difficulties and Barclaycard closed the account and a customer service officer advised us to make only minimum payments to clear off the debt. 6 years later I found the debt had increased rather than decreased. I took this case to the Financial Ombudsman who sided with Barclaycard saying that the account was right and we owe all this money. Barclaycard had a credit limit of £1500 and allowed the account to go over that by letting a payment go out to credit expert of £6.99 that I had not authorised. They then kept this account going by adding on over credit fees. They have refused to uphold the complaint I brought to them and continued to add charges and fees even whilst the account was in dispute. What is your view to this. In 2010 / 2011 we wrote to all creditors advising we were having financial difficulties and the other accounts went to CCJ. I don’t know what to do next.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you taken one or two complaints to the Ombudsman? When? Did you accept the decision from the adjudicator or take the complaint to the Ombudsman level?
Your whole financial situation – you have CCJs? Other problems debts as well as this Barclaycard debt? Can you afford to make any repayments? Are you renting or buying?
Dan says
Hi
I have a default that is 4 years old. I have £400 to pay on this and I am paying £100 per month.
Yesterday I received a notification that this has been removed from my file.
Why would this happen if its less than 6 years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is possible that the lender is stopping using that credit reference agency and switching to using another one … that is the only thing I can think of!
MS says
Hi I have debts that defaulted since 2010
I used to have a mortgage with northern rock with my ex. Unfortunately the house was repossessed (approx ) in 2011. I have paid my mortgage from 2007-2009 then the split. I also had a credit card with Barclaycard owing £1500 (last I saw this was in 2009) couldn’t pay it so i defaulted, we had a joint loan with lloyds for £4500 (last payment I can remember was 2009), I had a loan with alliance and Leicester for 12k (last payment made I think was 2009 or 10, I’ve had payday loans for 1500. My life went upside down few years ago and I have been under the radar as I couldn’t afford it. I have lost everything including my good credit. I want to check my credit report but I am afraid I would alert everyone. I’m not even sure if I have ccj. I want to move on but I’m not ready because of the lack of funds as I’ve got family to support now. What should I do first?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could look at Trust Online to see if you have CCJs https://debtcamel.co.uk/do-you-have-ccjs/. You have to search separately for any address you think a credit may have used.
If you haven’t, then all the debts will probably be statute barred except for the mortgage shortfall – any idea how large that was?
MS says
I’m not really sure I will have a look at trust online. I will keep you posted
Liam Morgan says
Sara
I have a defaulted debt for a Nationwide loan – o/s £7200. I received a letter from Nationwide and due to them making an error at the commencement of the loan they sent me a letter stating: “Please note that this default re;ates to an agreement which the creditor considers to be unenforceable”.
I queried this with them and received the following:
“This is a loan account with £7214.87 o/s…no further interest or charges are being applied”.
“This loan has been written off, however this means that interest and charges have been frozen and not that the debt has been cleared”
“…letters were issued in error with some financial information omitted. The notice of correction letter is permission for Nationwdie to amend your credit file to state that no legal action will be taken on this debt”.
“You are still leable for this balance”.
There is a lot more to it but I am really confused. If it is written off how can they pursue me?
if they state that it is unenforceable then how can they insist on payment?
It is defaulted anyway so I am very confused.
Can you help at all?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
From what you have said, Nationwide have decided that the debt is unenforceable as they have made some major procedural errors. They will not be able to take you to court for this debt. They still think you owe the money so they would like you to pay, but if you don’t, there is nothing they can do about this. They cannot insist on payments but they may continue to send you the odd letter about it.
What is the default date on your credit record?
I suggest that you should keep a file with all this correspondence very safe and stop paying any money to this. Paying it won’t benefit you at all. Use your money to repay your other debts or to save up an emergency fund!
If this seems worrying to you, you could talk to National Debtline https://www.nationaldebtline.org/ and they should be able to confirm what I have said.
Kat says
Hi, wonder if you could give me some advice please. I stopped paying my loan 11years ago and the company have never caught up with me. Cut along story short, today iv received a letter to advise this collection agency has taken over collection of my outstanding debt i owe what was abbey national. This loan was taken out Dec 2005. Where do i stand on repaying? I completely forgot about this years ago. My credit is excellent now, im a homeowner and have never missed a payment in 8 years. Really worried over this now. Please help thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was this a normal unsecured loan? Not a joint loan? Or secured?
lynne says
I have two outstanding debts with credit cards which I am paying off at £30 per month. One has been sold to a debt collector. I have asked for a copy of the credit agreement as these are old debts. I am currently waiting for replies but just to double check – if they cannot produce the agreements can I just stop paying? Do I need to inform them I won’t be paying any more?
If they do provide the credit agreements is there anything else I can do?
Many thanks
Lynne
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they cannot produce the CCA agreement (and from memory you said on another comment that yours were more than 10 years old, so this is a realistic possibility, not just wishful thinking) the debts are unenforceable in court so you can stop paying them. There is a slim chance the CCA agreement will be found later, so you may decide to offer a really low amount as a full & final settlement to make sure they can’t cause a problem in future.
If the CCA agreement is produced then you need to keep paying off the debt or you may be taken to court for a CCJ.
So for example if for one of your debts the CCA agreement is missing, but it is sent for the other one, you could then start paying twice as much a month to the second debt to clear it sooner.
lynne says
Hi Sara. Cabot financial have written to me about one of my credit card debts that they now own. They say that they ‘do not have my information on file [but] … have requested the relevant details … from the original lender’. They also say that they ‘acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information [but] … as we have to request the details from the original lender [they] … anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request’.
So clearly they have not met the criteria which is that they should provide the information within 12 days. Please can you advise what I should do next?
Many thanks
Lynne
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well they couldn’t take you to court until they do. I suggest you give them the rest of the 40 days and if they haven’t produced anything by then, you consider stopping making any payments to them.
lynne says
Thank You Sara. Will do.
The second credit card debt is with Santander. They have replied to my request for a copy of the credit agreement and breakdown of the account by sending a generic, unsigned copy of ‘my’ credit agreement together with a statement of payments made from May 2017 to November 2017.
They say that ‘under the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 we can comply with the legal requirement by sending you a copy of an agreement in the same form as the one that was signed, but may exclude the signature box, customer signature and the date of the signature’.
Is this correct Sara?
Regarding breakdown of interest or charges added to the account they say that ‘this is a request under the Data protection Act 1998 and a fee of £10 is required for this service’.
Again is this correct?
I have statements from 2010 but I’m not sure how much older the debt is.
Many thanks for your valued advice.
Lynne
Sara (Debt Camel) says
National Debtline are good people to talk to about these details.
Zak says
Hi, I had two credit cards taken out with Barclaycard in 1996 I think I remember having them but not sure. In 2012 I changed my name and I am in no debt and pay everything on time. Yesterday I accepted an offer on my house and started the process of applying for a mortgage with my broker. One of the questions it asked was ” any other names” of course I gave the broker my other name.
The broker contacted me and said that I was showing two credit cards in my old name with Barclaycard in an arrangement and they had been paid every month but were marked with the letters “AR” which means arrangement. I have never paid a penny on these cards and they never contacted me in over 16 years.
I phoned Barclaycard and they said I had 2 credit cards in 1996 and that they issued a default on both of them in 2001.I then said please explain to me if they were defaulted in 2001 why they have not dropped off my file in 2007? and that they have stayed on my file another 10 years more and this has cost me applying for credit and now I know why. They admitted they should have come off and the error is there’s but they have to speak to another department who is not customer facing and can only email them. Can barclaycard have these removed instantly?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well probably not instantly.
I think you need to go back to Barclaycard in writing – use their secure message system if you are currently a customer, or fax them ( 01604 254 152a letter ) if you have access to a fax otherwise it has to be a letter https://www.barclaycard.co.uk/personal/help-and-support/complaints. You need to make the following points:
– that although you may have had a Barclaycard in the past, you have no recollection of ever having had two at the same time and you also don’t remember leaving an unpaid balance on a card.
– that you no longer have any paperwork relating to this time
– that you have been informed that if the alleged debts are yours, which you dispute, that they would be statute barred
– that if the debts had defaulted in 2001, Barclaycard failed to contact you about this and failed to update your credit record correctly
– that as a result of these errors, you may lose your mortgage application and the house you want.
– say that you want them to remove the debts from your credit record immediately or you will be asking for compensation
– and that you would like a letter from them stating that in view of the extreme length of time and the difficulty of proving what happened so long ago, they have agreed to write off the alleged debts.
Zak says
Hi, spent 2 hours on the phone with Barclaycard this morning, firstly with a complaints manager then to the collections team. They have agreed to rapid response to remove these from my credit files and apologised said she will get it done Monday. I have told them no contact was made also statutes barred is definitely 100% in these cases. I will be sending my £1 postal orders for a CCA . Just glad it is sorted
Zak says
Just as I thought I had sorted one issue just seen another one. I had a charge put on my old address. I finally agreed a settlement figure and paid in full. I have a letter confirming this. I have just seen it on my linked address where it says ” FN first charge” it was issued on 31/ 06/ 2010 can someone please tell me when it is meant to come off? I have been told with a house it is 7 years, is this true? and should it have come off in June this year? as it was 7 years then.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you looking at your credit record? Or the land registry?
Zak says
Hi, it’s on my credit file. I have a letter from the mortgage company stating it will come off after 6 years but it’s over 7 years so I’m confused as to why it hasn’t come off. like I said earlier it shows 01/06/2010 so no idea what’s going on. There is no charge on the registry as at the time the house was in negative equity and we came to an agreement on the figure and it was paid.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My guess is that that note just refers to the fact your mortgage company (who has a first charge on your property) provided the information that resulted in the old address being linked to your name.
Experian state that old addresses are kept for 8 years.
Katie says
Hi, I have a few defaults on my credit report but am in a dmp paying an amount to them all each month. I’m due to receive a payment of £2000 and my debts are £4700. Should I pay in full some of my debts? They are due to be paid by the dmp on 4 years and my last default drops off in 4 years too. Is it worth me paying the £2000 into it or should I just wait until the 4 years is up? I’m hoping to go onto my fiances mortgage in 4 years and didn’t know if it’s best paying it off early? Or is it pointless as the defaults and payment plan ends in 4 years anyway? Sorry for babbling and repeating myself! I’m just not sure what’s best as we could put this £2000 that’s coming in into doing up our house as we have no kitchen but I’m not sure if it’s best to pay the debt early? Hope that makes sense. Thank you so much for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long have you been in a DMP?
Katie says
For about 3 years now. It finishes in 4 years. Thank you
Katie says
They are all sold debts too now and show this on payplan and on my credit reports. None of them are with the original creditors. I just am not sure what’s best to do. Thanks again!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t tell how urgent the need for a kitchen is. If it wasn’t for that, I would be suggesting that you try to repay as much of your debts as possible. Many of your creditors might be happy to accept an offer of say 60% of the debt as a full and final settlement, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/. This would let you repay 2500-3000 of debt and would make it quicker to then repay the rest.
When the defaults go, your credit record will be clear and it won’t show that you partially settled any debts.
Hayley byrne says
Hi I requested a copy a copy of the consumer credit act agreement for a barclaycard card I took out in 2007. I have been sent a computer print out entitled Barclaycard CAS Mart application retrieval. The print out has categories; applicant details, application details, product details, banking details and employment details but im not sure its actually a CCA agreement, how can I check?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could talk to National Debtline https://www.nationaldebtline.org/ or ask on the Legal Beagles forum: http://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act
Will says
I have had a reduced payment plan through Payplan and have been paying it back for 11 years now. Still a way to go but the records have obviously dropped off my credit file. I am now in a position to get a joint mortgage with my wife and the equity will be used to make full and final offers. My current credit rating is 796. Willthis history have any impact at all or can I finally move forward?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have a mortgage offer?
Matthew Brindley says
Hi I’m just wondering. Can THE DWP take a social fund loan out of your wages through a debt collection agency 8 years later even though it hasn’t been paid for about 7/8 years
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are they saying they can? Or are you just wondering about something which isn’t being threatened?
sandra says
Hi team, please can you help or shed some light for me?
I have had a couple of defaults over the last 5/6 years (all but one have been settled, i have had 3 in total). the one that hasnt been settled is due to drop off my credit file over the next couple of months. does this mean once this has dropped off that this can no longer appear on my file? is their a possibility that a CCJ can even be attempted, as from from your website, it appears as though its statute barred. I am on the brink of purchasing a property, so I am awaiting the default (unpaid) one to drop off before going ahead with my application. am i doing the right thing by waiting til it drops off? the only thing im worried about is if the CCJ gets brought against me over the next couple of months and it then appears on my file – is this possible? how long does it take for the the CCJ to appear if it was to be brought against me? (i havent had any acknowledgement of this intention by the way, i’m just trying to cover all basis).
thanks,
Sandra
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you made any payments to this debt in the last 6 years?
sandra says
hi Sara,
No i havent made any payment to the debt since may 2012
many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My apologies, I missed your reply. If the last payments were in May 2012, they will not be statute barred until 6 years after the payment was missed, so in June 2018 sometime… so not quite yet.
If the creditor starts a court claim after this date, you will need to defend it – contact National Debtline immediately on 0808 808 4000.
If a claim is started before this date then the best thing is probably to pay it off, or it may well mess up obtaining a mortgage.
jimbo says
Hi Debtcamel!
I have an old debt with lowell around £2000 which dropped off my credit file some time ago as it was over 6 years old. I have been paying them £10 per month for about a year now on direct debit but want to apply for a mortgage. I am worried that the payment to lowell will be flagged and I will be rejected! Can you give me some advice? Should I offer to settle the debt with lowell at a reduced rate? Should I do this from my account? I am so worried that something else will be put on my credit file! thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you need to settle this loan before you apply for a mortgage. A partial settlement will not cause the debt to reappear on your credit record, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ff-credit-record/
lynne lowes says
Hi Sara. Following previous advice from you I now have it in writing that Cabot Financial are ‘unable to get the information requested from the original lender’ and ‘until we are able to supply this your account is unenforceable’. They followed this letter up with a phone call asking me for details of incomings and outgoings, if I rent property etc. I told them I wanted to make a payment in full and final settlement and I suggested £100 but they want £3,956.70 (outstanding debt is £6000 plus). They are calling me back today and I want to tell them I’m not paying any more and for them not to bother me again. Am I in my rights to say this?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they have said that the debt is unenforceable in a letter to you, then you can say you aren’t going to pay them anything. They are legally entitled to remind you that the debt exists (even though it is not enforceable in court) so they may send the odd letter, but if you are clear to them that you do not intend to pay anything they should accept that and not continue calling/texting/writing.
It is possible that the CCA agreement may eventually turn up. It isn’t something I think you should worry about though!
If you are unsure about this, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Sha says
Hi Sara, I have been on a DMP for over 6 years, have been paying £100 per month. All defaulted over 6 years ago and don’t show on my credit files.
However I have one credit card outstanding around £3000 which I am gonna pay off by end of June.
I have a very bad credit
score at the moment 620 at Experian. Will my score better after I cleared that credit card.. ?
Also wanted to know do I still have to keep on my DMP paying even after it’s dropped off from my credit file. Because my DMP planed until 2028.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Sha,
can I check a few things:
– this credit card you are planning to pay off, that is showing on your credit record? Are there any missed payments or a default on it?
– do you have any other problems on your credit record if all the DMP debts have dropped off, any CCJs or other missed payments?
– is it right that there is about £12,000 to pay on your DMP? And who is running your DMP? And are you buying or renting?
Janet says
My ex left me in 2003, with several debts totalling £23,000.. Sold my house in 2012 negotiating with some successfully. Was left with 4x hsbc ones totalling 16,000 whoever the debt was with at that time declined my offer of settling. Since 2003 ive only paid minimum each month ( currently £12 for all four each month. Interest frozen – Did this by writing to the company myself)The debt now seems to be sold on ( yet again!)to another company Capquest, who have messaged me on my mobile – referring to letters I’ve not received. Ive not replied, and have noticed my direct debits for payments have stopped last month. (March 18)
I’ve been paying off this debt albeit a small token each month for the last 15 yrs – can I ask for it to be written off after so long? What are my rights after so long.? Thank you in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s VERY old!
I suggest you ask Capquest to produce the CCA agreements for the debts, see https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx and note you have to send £1. If the debt collector can’t produce the CCA agreement for a credit card or a loan, you can stop paying as the debt isn’t enforceable in court. This won’t work for an overdraft.
Wendy Isaacs says
Hi Sara, We have just received a letter from Immediate Financial that have been dealing with our debts since beginning 2011, we initially had 5 debts between us, but now all that is left if themlargest one originally to Royal Bank Scotland, now handed to Moorcroft, £9955. Our problem is that Immediate Financial are now ceasing trading and have closed our account with them, they are to refund £ 2500 which has acrued in our account over a period of time, which would have been held until there was enough to make an offer to Moorcroft…Our problem is that we now do not know where to go next… we were paying £100 per month of which £5 went to Moorcroft, interest frozen…It is actually my husbands debt, we are now both retired, he does a small courier round partime, to help our income, as we only have state pension, we dont own own home, or have any reasonable assets, the courier round he does employs him on a self employed basis, although hes not self employed in the true sense of the word…and he is nearly 68, and not in great health so how long this can continue I dont know, please advise, what to do next before Moorcroft start hounding us, which I am scared about…we just want to sort this out asap….thankyou so much Wendy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know what sort of debt this was? Credit card, loan, overdraft? When did your husband open the account?
Wendy Isaacs says
I am not sure he had a card and a cheque book as well… it wasnt abank account in the conventianal way, he used to pay monthly amounts on a statement like a credit card would issue….we cant remember when it was taken out exactly but it was 2003 or before we think…sorry to be so vague…he paid the until 2011, and at that time had other debts accrued, so contacted Immediate financial who negotiated with all the creditors…and until now we have paid a set amount to them and all bar this one have been cleared….kind regards Wendy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You used to be able to get credit card accounts with a cheque book – perhaps this was one of those?
I think £2,500 is plenty of money to offer a full and final settlement to this after all these years. National Debtline have a factsheet https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/fullandfinalsettlementoffers/lumpsumoffers.aspx on this, with a link to a letter you can write – this can come from you.
In this letter you should say that you are renting, that you don’t have any assets, give your ages and say that you husband has a part time courier job but he now has to give this up because of his health, so he won’t be able to make more than a token £5 a month payment to the debt.
But, before writing this letter making the offer, I think you should first write to Moorcroft and ask them to produce the consumer credit Act agreement for this debt. National Debt line have another factsheet on how to do this: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx. This debt is very old and if they can’t produce it, they can’t take you to court or harass you to pay this. So you could stop paying them anything, or offer them a much lower amount to settle the debt. I think this is well worth trying first. – you have been struggling with this debt for a very long while.
If you aren’t sure about this, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 – they are very friendly to deal with.
Wendy I says
Thankyou so very much for your advice which we will take…and will let you know the outcome in due course…can I ask one more thing please…The original credit card was taken out by my husband, but he had me be able to use and sign cheques if needed…so am I also responsible to repay the debt, or is it my husbands sole responsibility…the reason I ask this is if we have to give an income and expenditure sheet, then without my pension being including in it, then there isnt any way that he could pay anything off the account himself…
and they would see that from the figures…We just want to get things sorted…
again kind regards Wendy..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am guessing a bit here, but if the account was in his name, it is very unlikely that you have a legal liability to repay his debt.
Wendy I says
Again thankyou Sara, I did think that but we will see, I will let you know how it pans out…your advice is invaluable…you should be known as Debt Angel….Wendy
Adel says
Hi,
I have 3 outstanding debts (none of which still show on my credit file) and had previously been in a dmp but wrote to the debt management companies in December to request a copy of my credit agreement. None of the companies were able to produce the credit agreement although only one acknowledged they couldn’t. Two of those companies have now sold my debt onto other companies who are now pursuing my debts with renewed vigour. Do I need to point out to them that the previous companies could not produce credit agreements? Or should I just ignore? One of the companies has said that they have reported a default – can they do this when the debt has dropped of my credit file?
Your advice is much appreciated.
Adel says
I forgot to say that since they couldn’t provide credit agreements I have stopped paying the debts. Hence why I am being hassled by two of the companies.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just send each of the dcas the standard request for the CCA agreement.
No they can’t add a. New default – keep an eye on your credit records and object if they do.
sandra says
This is speculative. Once a ccj has been issued can the company submit for a 2nd ccj on the same debt if it still has an outstanding balance even though the agreed payments are being made every month on time? For example, in year 5, if there is still a worthy amount owed are they likely to do this to keep the debt alive and enforceable? Obviously after 6 years it disappears from the credit file but the balance owing still remains. Im guessing you cant just stop paying once 6 years are up and even if they cant do a second ccj on same debt, they could start sending debt collectors round, is that right? Also lets say they cant do a 2nd ccj but can they enter a further new default entry to your credit file? I have just this one ccj outstanding, which is due to drop off June 2019. I am fine to keep paying the £30 a month, I just dont want a second ccj to appear when I have been paying it off as agreed. iIf a second ccj or deault isnt likely, I would then ask for a copy of the CCA, but dont want to trigger them to go for a ccj in case they can produce the CCA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A second CCJ or another default is not possible. You can’t ask for a copy of the CCA after a CCJ, they are not obliged to produce it.
sandra says
Thank you. I have one more question. I Had a natwest credit card from pre 2007, defaulted back in 2010 ish. Out of the blue in 2015 an amount of money was taken from my pesonal natwest bank account. Natwest tell me the money was taken by them to offset an old credit card debt and that they had written to me to inform me of this. I said I had received no such letter. I took out the credit card somewhere between 2005 and 2008 and opened natwest bank account 2012/2013. will request the CCA for card and bank account. Is there anything else I should request or state to them? What recourse do I have here, if any? If the offset term is in both the CAA’s should they still have used this tactic as a last resort, as they didnt even send a debt letter about this nor did they claim on the phone they’d been trying to chase the debt from me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you opened a current account with a bank you knew you had recently defaulted to? Am I missing something here? Why did you do this?
The set-off – was the money actually in your current account or did it take you into an overdraft?
You could send them a Subject access request and ask for copies of all letters and emails from natwest relating to your credit card and to your current account.
Pedro says
Hi,
A few years ago in Portugal, I had a credit card debt of nearly £6k and due to some salary delays(nearly 3 months delayed) I was unable to pay the monthly credit card installments as they kept increasing due to delay payment fines and interests. I then stopped paying as it was that or eat.
In the beginning the credit card company tried to contact me and as I could not pay it, I did not reply. After 4 years and and after moving out of the country, the debt was already £8k however it had been sold to another company who got in touch with me and proposed for me to pay half of that amount, which I agreed to pay and paid it.
I am now leaving in UK and already paid this £4k about 2 years ago, I want to get back on track and rebuild my credit score and heard the best way would be getting a credit card and pay everything on time which I am willing to do, but I keep having credit card application declined.
I would now like to know how long until I have my name cleared and if I would like to get a mortgage in UK will this affect my mortgage application, if so for how long more as well?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you checked your credit records with all three credit reference agencies in the UK, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/? Is these old Portuguese credit card showing on any of them?