Do you have to keep making payments to old debts?
It can be easy to get stuck in a long-term Debt Management Plan (DMP) or payment arrangements. If you are paying little each month, your debts will take a very long while to be gone.
This article looks at the questions people often ask about old debts where they have been making monthly payments to the debts.
If you haven’t been making payments, read No calls or letters about a debt for years as that is a very different situation.
Must I pay a debt that has dropped off my credit file?
A debt drops off your credit file six years after the default date. Most debts in a low payment DMP will have been defaulted (if one of yours hasn’t, read What should the default date for a debt be? because you may be able to get this changed) so after six years these literally disappear and your credit score improves.
But these debts still exist.
Even though they are old, they will never become “statute barred” (that is the legal term for a debt that is too old for a creditor to enforce) because you are making payments to them.. See When is a debt statute barred? for more details about this.
So if you don’t want hassle from the debt collector that owns the debt and possibly CCJs, bailiffs etc, then the answer is Yes, you do need to keep paying the debt – or settle it in some way.
If the debt is old, the paperwork may be missing
There is another possibility for some old debts that is worth exploring.
If the debt is a consumer credit debt – that is all types of loans, credit cards and catalogues but not including overdrafts – then the debt collector may not be able to produce correct Consumer Credit Act documentation. If they can’t, then they can’t take you to court for a CCJ and you can simply stop paying…
This is a very good chance this will happen for debts that were started before 2007. And it’s worth trying for more recent debts that have been in a payment arrangement or debt management for many years and have been sold to a debt collector.
This National Debtline factsheet explains how to ask the debt collector to send you the CCA agreement. And National Debtline are good people to talk to if you are sent something and you aren’t sure if it is correct or complete.
Am I really likely to get a CCJ for an old debt?
If you stop paying the debt, then it is much more likely the debt collector will go for a CCJ. Think of your creditor as snoozing quietly whilst your small monthly payments roll in – as soon as they stop, he is likely to wake up and rethink what to do!
Recently the number of CCJs has increased a lot – up to 320,000 in January-March 2019. Half of these CCJs were for less than £650, so don’t think your debt is too small for a debt collector to go to court!
If you carry on making the monthly payments, it is possible that you could get a CCJ. This may feel unfair – you have had a long-term arrangement with your creditor and you have kept your side of the agreement by making monthly payments – but legally the creditor can still get a CCJ.
But your debt is costing very little to administer, so the debt collector will often prefer to carry on getting small amounts of money from you each month to the hassle and expense of taking court action.
When a debt is sold to another debt collector, they may decide to look again at your situation – your credit file, your income and expenditure. In a DMP, your DMP firm will send them a new I&E every year, but in a payment arrangement, you may be asked to send one.
It’s best not to ignore a request from a debt collector for a new I&E. Although you don’t have to give them these details the new debt collector may decide you could be paying more and go for a CCJ if you won’t co-operate.
You are a bit more likely to get a CCJ if you have a house – a creditor can see from your credit file if you have a mortgage and may assume that equity has built up. The odds are that you won’t, but having a long term DMP with a house with a lot of equity can be a problem.
If I get a CCJ will the debt reappear on my credit file?
After a debt has dropped off it will never come back. But this isn’t good news because the CCJ itself will show on your credit file for six years, even if you settle it in full. (There is one an exception here – if you pay a CCJ in full within 30 days it will disappear.)
Is it a good idea to negotiate Full & Finals on these debts?
Definitely! Even if paying £5 a month to a debt doesn’t feel like much of a problem, it is always possible the debt collector will threaten court action and ask for more.
If a final settlement is agreed, the debt will not reappear on your credit file. A Guide to Full and Final Settlements has more information, including how to make an offer. If your debts have changed hands several times, the current creditor may have paid very little for the debt, possibly only pennies in the pound.
It’s not easy to say what you should offer – that will depend on:
- what you are paying – if the debt will be repaid in a couple more years the creditor may not be interested in a low offer;
- what you could afford to pay – it will help to get an offer accepted if you provide an Income& Expenditure sheet that shows you can’t afford to increase your monthly payments;
- if have a house with equity – this doesn’t mean a F&F will be refused, but it makes it less likely that a very low one will be agreed.
Where could you get the money for a F&F? If you already have PPI complaints underway, they could also help. But it’s now too late to start a new one. One idea that may work if you have had a lot of debts, especially high-cost debts, is making an affordability complaint.
Don’t borrow money to make a settlement offer. At the moment all the old debts will have interest frozen, don’t swap that for a new creditor charging interest.
Can you get a mortgage if you are in a DMP?
Information about charging orders
Ask for the CCA agreement for old debts
Robert says
HI, I have an overdraft debt going back to 1997, I’ve been paying around £50 per month since then and never missed a payment for over 20 years now, I’ve not heard from them at all for probably at least ten years, I’ve moved five times (two of them abroad) in that period so they’ve probably lost track of me, the debt was around £60k and I’ll clearly never pay it of in my natural life, since then I’ve rebuilt my life and my credit but what do I do about this, I’m reluctant to make contact since after all this time and I would really struggle to settle it if I they wanted me too. I’m not sure what to do and it’s really worrying me now, any advice welcome, thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You had an overdraft of £60,000 ?
Jenny says
And they allowed you to ONLY pay back £50 a month???
Diane says
I am on a DMP with stepchange and I have never missed a payment in over 6yrs, I’m paying the minimum amount back to then, can you tell me do I still have to keep paying until all my debt until it’s cleared off , Estimated another 7yrs, or does it automatically clear after the 6yrs? Will my credit score be going up now as I’ve never ever missed a payment?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The debts still legally exist and you can be taken to court for a CCJ even after they have disappeared from your credit record. If you stop paying, this is likely to happen so yes, you do need to keep on paying.
Your credit score is likely to get a LOT better if all your debts in the DMP were defaulted as they will be dropping off your credit record.
BUT read the section in the article above on If the debt is old, the paperwork may be missing as this may work for some of your debts, so your DMP will end sooner.
Jamie says
So if my debtor dosent have a CCA for me I can stop paying them ? Will there be any consequence?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The creditor has to produce a true copy of your CCA, not the original one. If they can’t, then credit card, catalogue, HP or loan is unenforceable in court.
How does it currently show on your credit record? How old is the debt? What sort of debt was it? Has it been sold to a debt collector?
Martin says
Hi Sara – I have an old HP debt that goes back to 1997 (yes it’s 22 years old). I’ve been paying £4 let month as per a CCJ from 15 years ago. The debt as been resold 4 times and the current and previous debt owners know nothing about the CCJ. They have previously asked me to provide them with evidence of the CCJ which I’ve declined. But it occurs to me they may also be unable to provide a copy of the CCA. It’s only £4 per month and at this rate I’ll never actually pay the debt off. It’s it worth asking for a copy of the CCA or could I be poking a wasps nest?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you saying the current creditor knows there was a CCJ but doesnt have the details?
what do you think the balance is?
Martin says
Hi Sara – sorry for delayed response. Newest owner of the debt knows nothing about the CCJ and keep asking me to complete a new income and expenditure form. The debt is just over £6k. I would love to get it written off if they can’t provide CCA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can ask them for one… I suppose the danger is they may ask the previous debt collector and find out about the CCJ?
Andrew says
Hi Sara
Thanks for this article.
I’ve been on a StepChange DMP for some time now, just reaching 6 years from the date all of my accounts defaulted and the last couple drop off my credit file 31/12/19. At the current rate I am set for another 9 years of repaying. I have CCA’d all of the current debt holders. Some have confirmed and sent info to say enforceable. I have 3 particular accounts which are with IDEM (2 of them) and another Lowell. All 3 related to overdrafts with Halifax current accounts. 1 joint and 2 individual we are in a joint DMP.
I’m unsure if these overdraft debts are enforceable via CCJ. The reponse from both comapanies doesn’t really say is or isn’t, just says not coverered by CCA etc. I’d like to prioritise my payments to the other debts but obviously step change won’t differentiate and just say they all need to remain in the plan and paid.
If I were to stop using Stepchange and deal direct with each company as a way of not paying some, is there any chance of a CCJ on these 3 overdraft related debts?
Thanks
Andrew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Some have confirmed and sent info to say enforceable. “
so they have sent the CCA agreements?
Are there other non-overdraft debts where the CCA hasn’t been sent?
“I’m unsure if these overdraft debts are enforceable via CCJ.”
A CCA isn’t relevant for these. And yes the debt collectors could go for a CCJ for them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also how much do the debts where a CCA has been produced add up to?
How much do the overdraft debts add up to?
And how much can you may to the combined debts each month?
Andrew says
Thanks Sara.
They sent CCA agreements for all apart from PRA on one Barclaycard debt for £4k who couldn’t produce.
The overdraft related amounts to £2750 across 3 accounts.
The CCA produced just over £18k combined.
We pay £220 a month currently. Paid off around 15k so far and 25k remaining.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
StepChange should drop the Barclaycard debt from the DMP if you send them the letter saying it is unenforceable.
There is no reason to prioritise the other debts over the overdrafts, they are all enforceable in court.
Unless you have money for a full & final, you should be looking at your other options such as a bankruptcy or an IVA. Are you buying or renting? Are you both working?
Andrew says
Ok thanks Sara I will request the CCA again on that account as it was around 1 year ago. If still the same I will send and ask SC to drop it but I think they will resist. This is the kind of response they gave when I asked them to remove the debt before, when PRA told us they had frozen it until CCA paperwork found.
“With regards to enforcement, PRA Group have decided not to take legal action. This means you can pay the debt off without incurring any further charges on the account.” Clearly they are working for the agencies interests and funded by the banks, such a stupid answer from them.
Hoping we can get some money ready to clear down in the next 3 years and walk away with a clean credit file and everything sorted. Only 1 person working and we rent. Worried about damaging credit file again if we needed to move or get a newer car (current is old) I think we could do that without having the DMP cancelled as they are essential items for us.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No don’t start this cycle again! tell StepChange that PRA have still not found the paperwork and as the debt is unenforceable you want it removed from your DMP. If StepChange refuse, send StepChange a formal complaint.
Andrew says
OK I will do that and let you know if it moves to a complaint – thanks
Shantelle says
I was with Santander in 2006 and just been informed I owe 154.00 ,i dont remember owing this so have asked for proof from the bank,if i do get proof do i have to pay it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who contacted you about this?
Paul says
Morning Sara,
I have a Credit card with HSBC that i haven’t made and payment to since March 2019, looking at my credit report the interest has been frozen on the account but it hasn’t yet registered as a default. If repaying is not an option what would you recommend to get this account default (to start the six year clock)
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this your only debt problem? Might you be able to settle it in the next few years?
Paul says
Hi Sara
Yes it is and i will be able to settle in 12 months or so for sure. Just which option would be better in the long run? If i leave it as it is and then it gets defaulted in 6 months ive lost that 6 months if you understand?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t want a default if it can be avoided when the debt can be settled that soon. I suggest you wait and settle the debt as soon as possible. If at any point they add a default date, you can ask for it to be backdated to September 2019, 6 months after ayou missed a payment.
Paul says
ok, thanks for your help Sara. I wish you well
Paul
Alun Hughes says
Hi Sara
I have been paying a £4000 CCJ since June 2008 at £20 a month, I still owe around £1200.
It was originally an EGG Credit Card. The £20 gies to Capquest Investment, but its Drydensfairfax Solicitors that I get my paperwork from. But I had a strange phone call from them last week asking who I was paying, and could I pay them direct
What would happen if I just cancelled the direct debit and stoped paying
Regards
Alun
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s possible they can try to enforce an old CCJ that you have been paying – you could talk to National Debtline about this on 0808 808 4000.
If you get any more odd phone calls, I suggest you ask them to put it in writing.
Steve says
Hello Sara
I have a CCJ from almost 4 years ago that I knew nothing about until recently, the dept is from credit taken out (one of many) in fraud under my name by my parents who have both now passed away. All the other companies involved at the time either wrote the debt off or accepted minimal payments. Barclay however it would appear have taken a CCJ out I would assume on the last date it would have been enforceable as I the debt was incurred back in 2010.
I have never had any paper work for the CCJ or had any bailiff letters and I have had no letters from Barclays regarding the debt since 2012. I have no intention of paying the debt and I know the CCJ will fall off my credit score in 2 years. My question is will that CCJ be active for the rest of my life (but off my credit score) and therefore be enforceable by bailiffs for the rest of my life?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the CCj hasn’t been enforced by the time it gets to 6 years, then the creditor has to go back to court to get permission to enforce eg by sending in bailiffs.
But that is two long years away… I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether you have good grounds for having the CCJ “set aside” now.
Robert says
Hi Sara,
In 2012, I contacted all my credit cards, said a could not repay the outstanding balances, some £20,000 plus at the time. I stopped the interest & pay £1 each to all 6 debts, for the last 8 years, some debt have been sold.
New cc, loans, etc., & my credit score has gone up.
The 6 old debts, are standing orders at the £1, letters have come out, never replied, nothing has happened.
One old debt has been sold on to Lowell, I continued to pay the old agency, but the £1 has been returned each time, Lowell has sent letters & tried to call, I answered yesterday, they wanted me to confirm myself, I said under GDPR, I would not give any information over the phone, they said they need to confirm who I was to talk to me, end up with no conversation, they said look at the letters.
Do I need to setup a new standing order for Lowell, can I stop paying & cease responding to them, I will never pay off the debt in my life time, will never pay them more then £1 per month
I do not think any old debt is on my credit file and the other 5 still get a £1 each.
Can i take steps to stop paying these, i did notice Mark’s and Spencer’s Credit Card, still handle this themselves, the other (5) all with collection companys.
Lowell’s, relates to Halifax Credit Card and is over £14,000, as said only paid £1 to different collection agencies since 2012 on this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was the debt sold to Lowell?
Gordon says
I am 81 years of age and on guaranteed pension credit. I incurred a debt of £5000 from a loan I took out with a bank when I was 62 years old. I married at the age of 67 years. My wife is on pension credit as well. Consequently, because we are married and are both on guaranteed pension credit our pension has been reduced by £88.00 per week. After I married I came to an agreement with the bank that I would pay £10.00 per month on the debt of £5000. According to the debt collection agency, it now stands at £4300. I faithfully pay my £10 every month.
I have no savings at all. We live in sheltered housing. I had a stroke last year and my wife had a heart attack the year before.
The agency has now asked me to submit a list of monthly costs. With costs greater than they were in 1967, and an increased need for heating due to my age and the stroke I suffered I do not see how I can pay more than £10 per month. Can they force me to pay more?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Gordon,
this may seem an odd question, but do you know if the debt collector has bought the debt or are they collecting on behalf of the original bank?
Gordon says
They informed me some years back that they had bought the debt. They are not collecting on behalf of the bank from where I loaned the £5000.
Gordon says
PS: Periodically they send me a letter where they write “Thank you for making payments under your agreed arrangement. We would now like to take the opportunity to review your up-to-date financial position” They conclude the letter writing “If we do not hear from you in the next few days we may try to give you a call. However, if we are unable to make contact we must emphasise that your current arrangement will remain in place and payments should continue to be made on the agreed due date.”
Katie says
I have an old bank loan that I have been paying through a debt collection agency (Cabot financial) which has just dropped off my credit file due to the 6 year rule. I’m still paying the monthly direct debit, but wonder where I stand as this particular debt was subject to a notice of correction about 18 months ago, as the bank agreed it was unenforceable. I continued to pay it because it was on my credit file, but is there anything I can do about it now it’s come off my file, or do I just continue to pay it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have a letter saying it is unenforceable? ANd this isn’t going to change?
Katie says
Definitely said it was unenforceable, I’m assuming the debt has been sold on to Cabot financial now, but how would I know? I haven’t signed any other agreement, but I’ve been paying a monthly payment in the last few years.
Marc Mitchell-Miles says
I have several creditors that I have been paying through a DMP with PayPlan for the last 12 years or so. We have just remortgaged and borrowed enough to pay most of it off. Having requested CCA’s from them all, a number were unable to provide them at all and another provided something that resembled a CCA. My first question is how do I handle the companies that have been unable to provide CCA’s? I do not wish to pay these debts any longer. My second question is what should a CCA look like to ensure it is legitimately enforceable? (This one didn’t even have the address on that I was living at when the credit card was applied for)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The ones that haven’t been able to provide a CCA – have they said they can’t do this and that the debt is unenforceable while they can’t? If they have, you can simply stop paying them anything. tell Payplan you want the debts removed from your DMP and explain why.
If you don’t think a CCA is right (eg it has the wrong address) talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this.
Julie says
I am concerned about an ex Barclaycard account which has been sold to MDKP and then Hoist Portfolio over and over again. This debt is managed by Robinson Way. They have been taking £20 a month but I am concerned now that there was not a CCA (?). This debt appears to have gone to CCJ through Northampton Court but I don’t appear to have a signed copy by a Judge and I was not advised it was going to Court, should I have been? I don’t know what to do about this debt? Do I continue to pay my £20 indefinitely forever? Any advice gratefully received.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about the CCJ and whether there is any chance of you getting this “set aside” – the legal term for cancelled.
While there is a CCJ, there is no point in asking for a CCA as it is not relevant and you will not find out if Hoist/RW have it.
viva says
hi
Sara
Santander UK plc Account manage by West cot , I request CCA agreement , Santander do not have a copy of the original signed opening agreement due to the age of this account. west cot say , however please be aware that non supply of the credit agreement dost not invalidate the debt, but makes if unenforceable only for the period of non=compliance. this means a creditor
cannot:
make the debtor pay the debt before they are supposed to
get a court judgement against the debtor
take back anything hired or bought on credit or take anything used as security in the agreement.
can do:
ask debtors to pay what they owe
send a default notice
pass information on to a credit reference agency.
pass information on to a debt collector
sell the debt to someone else
take the case to court
only for the period of non=compliance. this means a creditor , what is this means ??
I stoped pay this westcot last 2 months, what is the solution please kindly request your replay.
thanks
Sarah says
I have £50K of old debt c/c and personal loan split between 10 x creditors. I have been paying £1pcm to each creditor by STO PCM since 2011. Some of these debts are from pre-2007. I would like to know how I can become debt-free and if some of these are no longer enforceable by CCJ? How do I find this out? I have been paying monthly and have recently called them to try to arrange an F&F reduction of 80% of the debt. I have managed to reduce this with 4 x creditors through an F&F payment of 20% with these but other creditors have refused. How do I know if the debt is still enforceable? and if the debt is no longer enforceable how do I get these debts cleared from my credit file? as they are over 16 years old are they now non-enforceable? they have been sold off several times to different agencies from Cabot, Lowell, Moorecrof, Robinson Way and from time to time they write to me to ask me to change the payment to them, but they have the payment diverted to them anyway so I have never updated the original payments. My question is how do I politely request a CCI or is it a CCA? (what does that stand for please? ) from the collection agency and if they do not have one does that mean the debt can be written off? or “set aside?” is there a letter template you can send a link to please? thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Those are VERY old debts.
There are two main reasons why old debt may be unenforceable. One is because they are statute barred – but this only happens after at least 6 years on no payments so it won’t apply to you.
The other is if the current debt collector (not the original lender) cannot produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the debt. Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ which explains exactly how to ask for the CCA agreement – use the words in the link it suggests and send £1 with each request.
Lisa says
Hi Sara
I have received a response from Link Financial (Two Debts) and Moorcroft to say that they are unable to provide the Credit agreement so the debts are not enforcable at this time. Should i continue to pay them? None of these debts have appeared on my credit file but i dont think they were ever defaulted, how do i find this out? I am worried that if i stop paying that they will register a default on my credit file and then i will have to wait 6 years for it to drop off.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debts were these? Who was the original creditor?
Lisa says
Hi Sara
I got it the wrong way around.
The Link one is Newday Ltd and they defaulted my in 2017. They have been unable to provide the contract so I have stopped paying and will just wait for the default to fall off my record.
The two moorcorft ones were again both credit cards. One states the Client is ‘Arrow Global Ltd’ and the other one states ‘Arrow Global Management Ltd’ (Not sure there is a difference). The last letter I received states ‘We will not make contact with you regarding collection of the outstanding balance on this account whilst this issue is being investigated. If you are already making repayments towards the balance via an automatic payment method such as Direct Debit, Standing Order or continuous card payment, this will continue to be paid unless you have made arrangements to cancel that payment method. However, we may need to contact you if we require further details or need to clarify any information as part of this investigation. The account has been placed on hold during the communications with our client and we appreciate your patience at this time.’
I am not sure if the original credit card companies defaulted my account as they were taken out about 10 years ago and i cant remember what happened.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you checked your credit records with all three credit reference agencies? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this.
Lisa says
Yes it only the link financial default appears. The Moorcroft ones are not on any record. It worries me that they can still add it though. I have been paying both of them for years but they have never appeared on any credit file. I regularly check Credit Karma, Clear Score and Experian. The debts are really old but been kept active from my payments. I dont know the rules on Moorcroft suddenly deciding to add them as a default as i have stopped paying. They do say the collections is on hold so hopefully they will write to me again soon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My guess is they were marked as defaulted on your credit record a lot more than 6 years ago. Then they dropped off. Moorcroft can’t add them again.
Lisa says
Thank you.