Do you have to keep making payments to old debts?
It can be easy to get stuck in a long-term Debt Management Plan (DMP) or payment arrangements. If you are paying little each month, your debts will take a very long while to be gone.
This article looks at the questions people often ask about old debts where they have been making monthly payments to the debts.
If you haven’t been making payments, read No calls or letters about a debt for years as that is a very different situation.
Must I pay a debt that has dropped off my credit file?
A debt drops off your credit file six years after the default date. Most debts in a low payment DMP will have been defaulted (if one of yours hasn’t, read What should the default date for a debt be? because you may be able to get this changed) so after six years these literally disappear and your credit score improves.
But these debts still exist.
Even though they are old, they will never become “statute barred” (that is the legal term for a debt that is too old for a creditor to enforce) because you are making payments to them.. See When is a debt statute barred? for more details about this.
So if you don’t want hassle from the debt collector that owns the debt and possibly CCJs, bailiffs etc, then the answer is Yes, you do need to keep paying the debt – or settle it in some way.
If the debt is old, the paperwork may be missing
There is another possibility for some old debts that is worth exploring.
If the debt is a consumer credit debt – that is all types of loans, credit cards and catalogues but not including overdrafts – then the debt collector may not be able to produce correct Consumer Credit Act documentation. If they can’t, then they can’t take you to court for a CCJ and you can simply stop paying…
This is a very good chance this could happen for debts that were started before 2007. And it’s worth trying for more recent debts that have been in a payment arrangement or debt management for many years and have been sold to a debt collector.
This National Debtline factsheet explains how to ask the debt collector to send you the CCA agreement. And National Debtline are good people to talk to if you are sent something and you aren’t sure if it is correct or complete.
Am I really likely to get a CCJ for an old debt?
If you stop paying the debt, then it is much more likely the debt collector will go for a CCJ. Think of your creditor as snoozing quietly whilst your small monthly payments roll in – as soon as they stop, he is likely to wake up and rethink what to do!
Recently the number of CCJs has increased a lot – up to 320,000 in January-March 2019. Half of these CCJs were for less than £650, so don’t think your debt is too small for a debt collector to go to court!
If you carry on making the monthly payments, it is possible that you could get a CCJ. This may feel unfair – you have had a long-term arrangement with your creditor and you have kept your side of the agreement by making monthly payments – but legally the creditor can still get a CCJ.
But your debt is costing very little to administer, so the debt collector will often prefer to carry on getting small amounts of money from you each month to the hassle and expense of taking court action.
When a debt is sold to another debt collector, they may decide to look again at your situation – your credit file, your income and expenditure. In a DMP, your DMP firm will send them a new I&E every year, but in a payment arrangement, you may be asked to send one.
It’s best not to ignore a request from a debt collector for a new I&E. Although you don’t have to give them these details the new debt collector may decide you could be paying more and go for a CCJ if you won’t co-operate.
You are a bit more likely to get a CCJ if you have a house – a creditor can see from your credit file if you have a mortgage and may assume that equity has built up. The odds are that you won’t, but having a long term DMP with a house with a lot of equity can be a problem.
If I get a CCJ will the debt reappear on my credit file?
After a debt has dropped off it will never come back. But this isn’t good news because the CCJ itself will show on your credit file for six years, even if you settle it in full. (There is one an exception here – if you pay a CCJ in full within a month it will disappear.)
Is it a good idea to negotiate Full & Finals on these debts?
Definitely! Even if paying £5 a month to a debt doesn’t feel like much of a problem, it is always possible the debt collector will threaten court action and ask for more.
If a final settlement is agreed, the debt will not reappear on your credit file. A Guide to Full and Final Settlements has more information, including how to make an offer. If your debts have changed hands several times, the current creditor may have paid very little for the debt, possibly only pennies in the pound.
It’s not easy to say what you should offer – that will depend on:
- what you are paying – if the debt will be repaid in a couple more years the creditor may not be interested in a low offer;
- what you could afford to pay – it will help to get an offer accepted if you provide an Income& Expenditure sheet that shows you can’t afford to increase your monthly payments;
- if have a house with equity – this doesn’t mean a F&F will be refused, but it makes it less likely that a very low one will be agreed.
Where could you get the money for a F&F? If you already have PPI complaints underway, they could also help. But it’s now too late to start a new one. One idea that may work if you have had a lot of debts, especially high-cost debts, is making an affordability complaint.
Don’t borrow money to make a settlement offer. At the moment all the old debts will have interest frozen, don’t swap that for a new creditor charging interest.
Can you get a mortgage if you are in a DMP?
Information about charging orders
Ask for the CCA agreement for old debts
Ms G says
Hello Sara,
I have been contacted recently by a debt collector I had nothing to do with before. Due to financial circumstance, I defaulted on a bank load 2010. At the time the citzen advice bureau told me to make token payments of £1 each month, which I have been making ever since. The debt was sold on to a debt collector and then sold on again (I am not sure if several times as I have moved at least twice during this time). I have never had any dealings with the current debt collector before. I really would want to write off this debt of near to 8k. I understand that the debt unfortunately can’t be statue barred because of the token payments. Is there another way to write it off. I don’t quite understand what it says on this site: do I ask a company to write the debt off for me or should I ask the original creditor. I was thinking of going down the proof of CCA agreement first. Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is your current financial situation like?
Ms G says
Better, but I cannot pay them 100s of Pounds each month to clear it quickly. I am tied in financially into other things, I have not got equity/mortgage or large savings etc. The debt is no longer showing on my credit report.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Asking for the CCA is a reasonable thing to do – this debt is old and has been sold several times so this may well work.
If it doesn’t, then it isn’t clear that you are likely to get it written off. You can simply may a payment arrangement to pay more, not hundreds but what you can afford. It would be a good idea at that point to talk to a debt adviser about your full situation – back to Citizens Advice I suggest.
amber says
Hello Sara,
I took out a car finance and defaulted on payments when I was young they took the car away and I was led to believe the debt was settled until contacted by debt collectors Robinson way and then contacted by Hoist.
I believe the default will be removed next year but recently they contacted me to pay and if I pay now will the debt remain on for another six years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No – if there is a default date on the debt record it will always be deleted from your credit record after 6 years.
But you will still need to keep paying the debt even when it is not on your record- so on;t agree to an amount you can really afford.
Ms G says
Hello Sarah,
I recently posted a question here about: I was contacted by a debt collection agency I have never dealt with before. It’s for a bank loan I have defaulted on in 2010. The bank passed on the debt to debt collectors and then it seems it has been passed on to this one. I have been making token payments to the first debt collectors ever since defaulting on the loan ( as advises at the time by CAB). I have sent a Credit Agreement request to the current debt collection company. They replied to me acknowledging my request followed by a second letter theat they are investing and it will tale weeks to carry out their investigation. We are now at working day 14 and haven’t provide proper proof of the credit agreement. I ‘d to know whether I can paying them. Can they still take me to court, can they still have an impact on my credit score? Should I wait and write a follow up letter to they haven’t provided me with proof and I will stop paying? The payments I make aren’t even with them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can cancel the payments if you want, but as they are only £1 a month and you haven’t suggested thus is unaffordable, why not just wait a couple of months? It is really too early to assume the CCA cannot be produced.
This debt will not reappear on your credit record. And the current creditor should not start a court case. It’s up to you if you think it’s worth the hassle of cancelling the payment now or waiting until things are clearer
Ms. G says
Thank you for the advice. If I wait, should I send them another letter that I am stopping payments as they have not provided proof of the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“If you wait” then surely you are not stopping payments?
Fiona says
Hi I have a debt held by Link Sourcing for a credit card debt from Barclaycard . The credit card was mis-sold and I received a payment.
As it was mis-sold where do I stand with the debt with Link Sourcing ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are Link Sourcing collecting on behalf of Barclaycard or have they bought the debt?
How much payment did you get from Barclaycard for mis-selling, how long ago, and did this take into account the remaining balance?
Jayne Dickinson says
Hi, I was just wondering, if I continue to pay debt (an account that is in default) that is older than 6 years old, and it falls off my credit file because of this duration, will it continue to have a negative impact on my credit score?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. When a debt falls off your credit record it is no longer there at all so it can’t be included in your score.
What sort of debt is this? How long until it is repaid?
Jayne says
Thank you for the reply. It’s debt from along time ago when I was younger and silly that I never paid off, went into default and now I’m in payment plans with a few different companies. Ideally this will continue to be paid and paid off in full as soon as possible but now I’ve “grown up” and my spending had completely changed, I don’t want this to impact me long term.for example, getting a mortgage before the outstanding balances are cleared.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, but do think about full & final settlement offers to clear the debts away sooner, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/. This won’t cause the debt to reappear on your credit record.
Also read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ as if some of your debts were loans or credit cards and have been sold to debt collectors, the creditor may not be able to produce the right paperwork in which case you could just stop paying them.
Jayne says
Yes it’s definitely something I’m starting to look at, and thank you I will look at both of those links. Thank you!
Jennifer Vincent says
Hi I had a debt with HSBC that was sold to Metropolitan collection agency. I have a very small payment plan in place monthly which I am still paying. I moved 6 years ago but forgot to update my details with them. I just kept paying the debt automatically through the bank. Recently I thought I would like to clear the debt by making an offer but the collection company seems to have closed down and I can’t contact them. I suppose they have not been able to contact me. I guess the debt has been sold on. How do I find out who owns the debt now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They may have been collecting for HSBC. You could contact HSBC and ask them.
D says
Hi everyone.
I have a two year old debt that has gone to a collection agency.
I’ve made an agreement with this company to pay the debt and have noticed they have added an entry to my credit file with these details and the credit score has taken a nosedive going from 350/500 to 160!
Can they do this?
I’ve worked exceptionally hard over recent years to recover from a divorce and repay what I owe and have finally got things where they can be rectified. Being at the point where I feel able to make the final step in the recovery and buy a house within the next two years this feels like a real kick in the teeth and I’m seriously considering going nuclear and declaring bankruptcy.
I’m that annoyed by the whole process of the ‘modern’ credit system.
Given the original debt has defaulted, still appears on my credit report and shows the missed payments etc, how could this be allowed?
Thanks in advance and keep up the good work Sara!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what credit report are you looking at that gives you a score out of 500?
D says
I used that as an example – couldn’t remember the exact figure!
The main point is that my rating is now lower than it was at the time I hit rock bottom and its lower because I’m doing the right thing and addressing the debts I have :(
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah ok, I thought it was weird.
A debt that is being repaid by payment arrangement should damage your credit score as you are not making the agreed payments. A default can be added if you are behind by 3-6 months.
What did the original lender record this as on your credit record?
When did you stop making payments to this – was it a long while ago?
Have you looked at the credit reports with all 3 credit reference agencies, as they will not all show the same information? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/?
Are you making payments to a lot of debts that no longer show on your credit records?
D says
Already original lender has already marked my file as defaulted.
My issue is the debt effectively appears twice (on all three reports), the debt collecting agency having started a new account.
Payments were stopped around 3 years ago and I’m now in a position (thankfully) to begin making repayments.
I’m just amazed that I can have 2 entries on my file for the same debt – and annoyed that this will impact my ability to consolidate debt and finally get myself straight.
By my (admittedly rough) reckoning it’s added nearly a year to the time I will become debt free.
This is all coming after nearly 5 years of hard work to get myself straight and just feels unfair!
Thanks for the reply btw.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the debt collector has used the same default date as the original lender?
John Bull says
Hi
I was paying a debt that had a default applied on march 2015, I stopped making payments in June 2018 but no action was taken by the company until now where a new business is now chasing me for payment
This debt is not on my credit file anymore, can they continue to chase me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt was this? Credit card, loan, overdraft, utility bill or what?
John Bull says
It was an overdraft of approx 1500
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So yes you do still legally owe the money.
The fact it has dropped off your credit record does not mean it is statute barred – that cannot happen until it has been more than 6 years since your last payment.
If it has been a loan or acredit card you would have some other ways to dispute if it is enforceable in court, but they are not relevant for an overdraft.
I suggest you make a monthly payment arrangement.
They may accept a full & final settlement offer if you are in a position to make one? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/
Doug says
Hi,
I split up with me ex back in early 2015. The gas/electric bills were in my name only. The supply was being paid for using a key meter.
I didn’t close the account as it would have meant my ex and children possibly having no gas and or electric.
I recently had a letter from Lowell saying the debt had been sold to them.
As it was well over 6 years since I moved out, I sent a statute barred letter to them.
They are saying a payment was made in February 2016. I know categorically that I would not have made this payment, so it would have been made by my ex.
It’s my fault for not closing the account at the time, but if I can show that I wasn’t living at the address and didn’t make the payment, can I claim statute barred? Or do they need to prove that I did make the payment?
I know Lowell are now taking things to court, I have been working hard to pay off old debts and sort out my credit score in the years since our split and would not want a CCJ showing now. I am worried that they will be more aggressive in pursuing this now I have claimed statute barred status.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I didn’t close the account as it would have meant my ex and children possibly having no gas and or electric.
Hardly, they would just have changed the name on the account.
I know Lowell are now taking things to court,
They have sent you a Letter Before Action?
I suggest you talk to your local Citizens Advice. You need to know what period this debt covers. And may need to go back to the energy co and tell them when you moved out. Also how come a debt has been run up on a key meter supply? It is pretty unusual.
Anon says
Hi, I had a Barcalycard credit card (opened in around 2003) which I managed well for many years with a credit limit of £2k. Between November 2016 and Feb 18 the limit increased several times up to £10,200. Also during this time I opened 3 other credit card accounts as my finances got really bad. I set up a payment plan with all creditors in September 2018 but never missed any payments and they all defaulted.
My Barclaycard debt was sold to PRA Group in Feb 21 and I have been paying them £30 a month as per the original payment plan.
I have requested the CCA agreement from PRA and they have replied to say they have requested the information from Barclaycard.
If they are unable to provide this, does that mean they cannot enforce the debt and I can stop paying?
The account is defaulted in September 2018 but shows a default notice every month since on my credit report. Would this dissapear from my record after September 2024 regardless?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they are unable to provide this, does that mean they cannot enforce the debt and I can stop paying?
yes.
Would this disappear from my record after September 2024 regardless?
yes. But if they can produce the CCA agreement then you will need to keep paying or they will probably go for a CCJ.
The other option here is to complain to Barclaycard that they increased your credit limit to high so it was unaffordable. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/. If you win that complaint your debt will be reduced – which doesn’t much matter if they can’t produce the CCA agreement, but I suggest this is worth trying for if they can.
Fiona Hearn says
Hi
I have a DMP with Step Change, now in my 6th year. I have7 debts, cc / loan / catalogue etc, only 2 of which are still showing on my credit report and one of those is due to expire at the end of this month. I have asked for the credit agreements in feb 21 and only one has produced a file but this default no longer shows on my credit file, the others have either not responded or I received a standard thanks for your request letter.
It is clear that these debts have been sold on a couple of times.
If I stop paying, would they be able to enforce any action? Morally I feel I should approach them offering a settlement.
Any advice on the steps I should take would be most welcome
Thank you
Fiona
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I check that you have asked the current creditor to produce the CCA agreements, not the original lender.
The debt that is still showing on your credit record that will not drop off at the end of this month – is this defaulted? or just showing as in a payment arrengement?
Anneliese says
I took out a credit card from Halifax bank in 2009. I made minimum repayments and defaulted a couple times. In 2014 I missed a payment and this ultimately led to a CCJ which was issued in 2016. Unaware of this until very recently I have never made a payment towards this CCJ. What happens next? I feel I should repay it but could it just go off record? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This will drop off your credit record in 2022 whether you pay it or not.
Have you ever been contacted by the debt collector who got the CCJ?
How much is owed?
Do you have other problem debts at the moment?
Emma says
Hello
My mum has a CCJ which she has been making payments against for years – according to HSBC, she’s brought it down from 13K to under 3. However, the statement she has from HSBC has one outstanding balance – and the letter she just got from the collection agency has a higher figure – how can this be? How do I best challenge this? The collection agency are belligerent beyond the telling of it and despite her being now in her 70s and on a fixed income, they try and hound her every year for a higher payment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does she have other debts as well? Behind with any bills?
Can I ask if she is renting or owns her house?
Emma says
Hi Sara
She did have other debts but has paid them all off. This unsecured loan was the only one that went to court, and she has a charging order on her home from the CCJ. She is in shared ownership with a housing trust and paid her part of the mortgage off with her retirement lump sum, so still pays rent on the other 50%.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok well to dispute the amount, I suggest she just writes to the collection agency and asks why this is more than on the statement from HSBC which she can attach. You could draft the letter for her.
If you think she is being asked to pay an unreasonable amount, the best thing is for her to talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and explain she would like an income and expenditure statement to show the collection agency – they will go through all her incomes and expenses and suggest what she should offer.
Anon says
Hi Sara,
I have a defaulted mobile phone account which will be 6 years on my credit file in April 2022. I’ve been making payments to a debt collector and there is about £320 balance. Im starting a job and hopefully can pay off. My question is am I better off paying the balance before April or wait until the account drops off my credit file – which option has a better impact on my credit score? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It won’t make a difference.
The deb5 collector may well be prepared to accept a lower settlement amount. That won’t make a difference to your s ore either and the debt will still drop off 6 months after the default date.
Anon says
Hi Sara
I have 2 defaults (1 overdraft, 1 loan) that I believe defaulted in 2016/2017 respectively. I need some advice on whether it would benefit me to contact these companies and start repaying the debts now? Ideally i’d like them to drop off my credit report after 6 years but i’m nervous that if I start making repayments now, they’ll stick around on my report even longer.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are they marked as defaulted with a default date on your reports?
Anon says
I used Credit Karma and they both have default dates on there, I cant see a default date on my other credit reports but it says they are in default. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then they will drop off after 6 years whatever you do – pay them in full, settle them with an offer , start paying small monthly amounts or do nothing at all.
Of course if you do nothing, then the creditor may decide to go to court for a CCJ which would ruin your credit report for another 6 years. but the original debt will still disappear 6 years after the default date.
Anon says
Perfect thanks so much for the help.
Sarah says
Myself and my husband have a large amount of debt outstanding. Most debts defaulted more than 6yrs ago and we have been paying small monthly repayments. We can’t get a mortgage because of the large amount outstanding. My question is, if we were able to offer a much lower amount to settle the majority of the debts, as they defaulted more than 6years ago will settling have an adverse effect on our credit report? (Credit score is actually good currently), and make it even harder to get a mortgage?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These defaulted debts will not reappear on your credit record after a partial settlement.
Steve Ward says
Sarah, I would strongly recommend that you follow the steps outlined in the article Sara referenced for your old debts & then stop paying them until you have a response. I did this in August 2020 & within about 3 to 4 months, all but one out of eleven accounts were deemed ‘unenforceable’ under the Consumer Credit Act. It took about another 6 to 10 months before they all stopped calling & writing to me, but it did go quiet. There’s no legal Avenue to pursue the ‘debt’ & they don’t appear on your credit file, so in terms of applying for new finance etc… I’ve never mentioned them & have not had any issues. Hope that helps, but happy to answer any other questions if you reply.
Mrs C says
Hi
My husband with his previous wife about 10 -12years ago had significant debts, one resulted in a charge on their home, a couple of CCJ’s and a few that just never bothered and vanished, when he said “I have more going out than I have coming in and you’ll need to take me to court”.
They separated 2016 and sold the marital home 2018 , the charge was cleared, other debts have been repaid, with exception of one approx £3400, there was a CCJ and the court instructed £5 a month payments. It’s long since cleared from his credit file. He ignores all the debt collections letters to review the repayment amount. “I’m paying what the court instructed, I’ve never missed a payment, there’s nothing they can do?!” his words.
Is that true? Are they able to take it back to court for another CCJ or to force him to reply to payment review letters?
Both our credit scores are excellent on experian and equifax alike. Worried he might be putting his at risk ignoring them.
He’s paying £60 a year, it’s going to take 56+ years to repay (He’ll need to live to 106 to repay in full at his current rate).
Do I ignore it and let him handle it his way, or is there any advice I can relay to him?
I want to suggest that he advise them the life expectancy in our town for a man is 74.1 years so offer them £1500, 25 x 60 but not sure if that’s viable reasoning?
Many Thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A CCJ never becomes statute barred.
The creditor cannot go back to court for a second CCJ and this one will never reappear on his credit record.
But the creditor may be able to try to enforce the debt in other ways, eg with bailiffs or by looking for an attachment of earnings.
Has he had a recent request to review the payment amount? If he has, it may be a good idea for him to discuss this letter with National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Mrs C says
Thank you for the reply, he’s had many requests to review the payment amount over the 3 years we’ve been together, I think they write every 4-6 months asking him to complete an income and expense report and include info for his current partner/wife (me). He ignores and shreds it.
They’ve never threatened anything else, it’s the same letter that comes each time that he ignores. He’s always written to them via post to keep them updated when we’ve moved, but doesn’t give them his updated financial position or more specifically mine, as his circumstances have been the same for over 15 years with limited disposable income. They have no other means of contacting him as he won’t give them phone numbers or his email address.
I’ll chat further with him and suggest he calls national debtline. Thank you again.
Richard says
Hi Sara.
My wife and I owe nearly £100k in unsecured debt. All is defaulted and over 6 years old. These are currently being managed through a third party debt management company.
We are considering raising funds (via remortgaging) to make full and final offers, Moorgate and Cabot take up the Lions Share.
We have not looked at the CCA route yet and wonder what % reduction we should offer to start with.
Your advice is greatly appreciated
Mr S
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much are you paying the DMP company at the moment?
Is the DMP free or do you pay interest?
Are these DMP payments affordable? could you pay more?
Do you have other debt outside the DMP?
C says
HI Sara,
We struggled with debt in the past and have been paying a small amount off each month of a HSBC credit card since 2010, the amount owed is over £10,000. We have not missed any payments and had not heard anymore from HSBC, however I have recently been sent a letter from Wescot to discuss the outstanding payment and repayment options.
Do I have to speak with them or can I just continue with the payments that I have been making each month.
I would appriciate any advice.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have looked at this sort of situation in this article: https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-collector-income-expenditure/
Here a complicating factor is inflation – are your energy bills about to jump in April? National Insurance, Council tax, food bills, all going up… you need to make sure any offers to Westcot really will be affordable, not just now but for the rest of the year.
If you have other problem debts as well, or you are struggling with bills, I suggest you talk now to National Debtline about your whole situation.
C says
Thank you, if i am not working but my partner is do they take his earnings into account.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you personally have other problem debts?
Are you buying or renting?
C says
A couple of other debts, and we are in the process of buying but currently renting.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You will find it hard and expensive to get a mortgage when you are still paying this HSBC debt. Lenders will see the payments on your vbank statements.
Have you spoken to a mortgage broker yet?
It is likely that you will need to settle this debt, possibly with a partial settlement offer (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/) and then wait 6 months before applying for a mortgage.
Anon says
Hello,
I was very silly in my youth and got into a large amount of debt; cc/loans/overdraft. I started an IVA with my then partner 2004, which failed. I’ve had an DMP ever since – 2007, which I pay each month.
Could anyone tell me how I can end this once and for all, and finish paying them. Obviously it’s been 15 years and no longer shows on my credit score.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How many creditors are there? Do you remember which were loans, credit cards and overdrafts? How much are you paying a month? And what is the current balance (roughly)?
Ann says
Hi Sara i wrote to PRA about a MBNA cc account i had with them , below is the reply .
Im with Stepchange and currently this debt is been paid . Were do i stand ?
Currently your account is classified as unenforceable, which means we are not able to take legal action to recover the balance. The debt is still legally owed and we will continue to contact you and report to the credit reference agencies (where appropriate). It is possible for your account to become enforceable in future, if we receive the appropriate paperwork from the original creditor – we will make you aware if this becomes the case.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is the debt marked as defaulted on your credit record? Or does it no longer show?
Ann says
Hi
Its default many years ago .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so it is no longer on your credit record?
Kirsty says
Hi I have been making payment to council for overpayment of £10 a week from a debt over 5 years ago. They have just wrote to me requesting financial statement I can only affford what I currently pay as it’s so old does it need to be paid? What will happen if I ignore it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am afraid this old debt can’t be “statute barred” as you are paying it.
Can you say what the money was owed for? How much is left?
What is the rest of your financial situation like – are you behind with any important bills or priority debts? Worried that you cant afford the energy price rise in October? This affects what you should reply to them.
Lou says
Hi,
I have a DMP for debt that was incurred whilst I was married. My ex declared himself bankrupt in 2010, so I was chased as sole responsibility for joint debts, credit card, overdraft loans. CCJ was issued on one, so with help from a financial advisor I sent up small payments to Robertson in 2011 and have paid ever since. Hoist has now brought this debt and now is consistently contacting me. I own nothing and still scrape by each month, so I have no spare money to offer them. What should I do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you have any other debts or arrears on bills at the moment?
TG1 says
I’ve been in a DMP with Payplan since 2010 always making the monthly payments to 4 creditors and still have another 5 years to go. The credit and loans were built up stupidly when lenders were extending credit card and loan limits without relevant affordability checks and resulted in a massive build up of debt. Payplan never advised me in 2010 to pursue affordability u I wrote to Financial ombudsman a couple of years ago with full details and they couldn’t help due to the time that had passed. All debts have been sold on at least a couple of times now 2 with Link, 1 with Caboot and 1 with Santander. Any advice on if its worth contacting FO again or requesting CCA paperwork please all debts/ defaults she now off my credit file. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What is your current financial situation like?
Are your DMP payments affordable giving the rising cos5 of living?
Santander doesn’t buy debts, so tha5 one can’t have been sold.
Tracey Grant says
I am stretched to the limit financially with the increase in utilities/food etc. The Santander one was previously Cahoot?
so have 1 with Link, 1 with Santander, 2 with Caboot do you think it is worth asking for the CCA paperwork for each I entered into the DMP in 2010 so many years have passed? thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So there is no point in trying to go to the Finacial Ombudsman again.
So asking for the CCA agreements may be your onpy practical option – not guaranteed to work though, obviously.
If you are “stretched to the limit” though you should also ask Payplan for a reduction in what you ar epaying to the DMP to a more affordable level,
Jacqueline says
I have been in a DMP with a reputable non profit making charity since December 2019.
I was paying £352 per month but my mortgage has gone up and I am now only able to pay £78.00 per month.
8 of my debts have been sold to PRA (5) Zinc (1), Intrum (1) and Lowell (1). Recently, I have been reading and researching the 3 Letter Process
which I think I am correct in understanding I could utilise for these sold debts. Sara I would appreciate your comments regarding this.
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The 3 letter process is a legal nonsense – I suggest you ignore it.
Have you asked your DMP firm to reduce the payments you are making? This should be your first thought now your mortgage has gone up.
How large are the remaining debts?
One option you could look at is asking for the debt collectors that have bought the loans to produce the CCA agreement for the debts. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/.
You could also look at whether you could win any affordability complaints about the debts in your DMP – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/tag/refunds/ whicyh has links to articles about different sorts of debts. Here the complaint goes to the original lender, not the current debt collector.
Jacqueline says
Thank you so much for your prompt reply and confirming what a thought was a load of rubbish re the 3 letters.
I will do as you suggest re cca and refunds.
My DMP payment has already been reduced because of increased mortgage payments and my payment at the moment is £78.00 as from 01 April.
The total debts amount to £46251.00.
I could release 25 per cent from my pension pot but this would amount to £ 14,500 and the charity has said that they would only consider making offers in the region of 40 per cent which is £ 18500.00. I am unable to raise this amount at the moment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I ask if you now have a new mortgage fix? Or if you are on a variable rate?
Jacqueline says
Variable interest only 113000 property worth in the region of 375000 always and still do intend to downsize in 4.5 years when mortgage ends
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who is the mortgage lender and what rate are you currently paying?
JJ says
Acenden 6 per cent they are not an active lender
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok well trying to get some of the debts decided as unenforcable and getting others reduced by affordability complaints seems the best way forward at the moment. At the end of that (6-12 months?) you can reassess the situation.
You could contect the lenders yourself and say you could offer then 25% by taking money from your pension, but you would need them all to accept before you took the money out and this looks somewhat fraught.
JJ says
Thank you Sara I appreciate your helpful comments and will proceed as suggested.
JJ says
Hello Sara
Following previous conversations I proceeded as suggest and wrote to PRA asking for CCA’s for three accounts, I sent three separate letters and 3 separate Postal Orders. Yesterday I received a reply from Lowell. The key points of the letter are.
1/ Acknowledge receipt of my correspondence in relation to Request(s) for information Section 77-79 Consumer Credit Act 1974.
We have requested the required information. Until this is received we have placed your accounts on hold which will cease any further
collections activity until further notice.
2/ PRA Group do not charge any fee to carry out this request, we are therefore returning your payment(s).
3/ Additional information: Even if we cannot give you the information requested, the debt still exists.
Sara I am on a DMP so should I contact Step Change and tell them not to pay PRA until the matter is resolved or wait and see if PRA can produce the agreements.
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s up you but personally I would wait a couple of months before deciding they probably can’t find these CCAs.
Lisa says
I am in a DMP & all my debts except 2 have default dates.
Is there anyway I can request default dates (debts are approx 4 years old) be put in so that they drop off my record in 2 years instead of showing as late payments 6 years after the final payment? (I am looking to offer a F&F this year).
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you can, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/ which explains what to do.
Sue says
Hi Sara
I received a CCJ 6 years ago for a Provident Loan which I am now repaying to Lowell Solicitors at £25 per month.. The CCJ expired this month & my account on the Lowell website is now showing as a nil balance. The account is showing a final adjustment of £4k which has been wiped off the account. Can Lowell still pursue me for this remaining balance even though I have made regular payments to them towards this CCJ for the last 6 years.
My account on their website states it is on hold rather than repaid. The balance however is zero.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you make a claim to the Provident Scheme for this loan?
Sue says
Yes & it was declared unaffordable. I didn’t, however, receive any recompense as the loan had been sold to Lowell.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This seems like a very large balance from a provident loan?
Was the amount you owed reduced? You should have been able to have the CCJ set aside, but now it has gone from your credit record, there is no need.
Sue says
The original loan was for £2k but with interest & legal fees, court charges etc it ended up being over £5.5k. I’ve paid 1.8k over the course of the 6 years & the remaining balance has now been adjusted off my account. I spoke to Lowell Solicitors earlier & they advised ‘the balance is “nil for now'”. This makes me think they have sold the balance to another company who will pursue me for payment. Would a court allow them to extend the CCJ so they can try & recover the balance? I am just worried that this is not settled.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A CCJ cannot be ‘extended’ but it is still enforceable after it has dropped off your credit record.
I would be surprised of Lowell chose to sell this debt at this point.
I suggest for the moment that you stop paying them – they have told you the balance is nil – and wait and see if they get in touch again.
Don’t lose the response from Provident saying that the loan was unaffordable.
Mac says
Hi , I’m helping a friend move forward with some long term debt .
They have been in a DMP for 10 years plus with payplan current debt @ 20k they are maintaining payments ( 8 creditors ) question is is this still debt enforceable after such a long time as far as they’re aware no active CCJ’s etc .
Any advise greatly appreciated.
IVA/ Bankruptcy not an option due to home / job .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As they have been making payments p, the debts in the DMP will never become statute-barred.
But if some of the debts are credit cards k catalogues, HP or loans AND they have been sold to debt collectors it may be worth looking whether the debt collector can produce the CCA for the debt… see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/. If the CCA can’t be produced the debt is unenforceable and he can tell Payplan to stop paying them.
Mac says
I believe debt is credit card , bank account and white goods from years ago when they really struggled due to job loss and then taking much lower paid jobs .
Thanks for the advice, I will definitely make sure they pursue this . Is there any alternative advice you would offer them moving forward .
It seems also no record of the defaults on credit file now . I believe DMP started around 2011
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you say some more about their current situation?
Mac says
I will do my best .
Both work full time , don’t qualify for any benefits etc . I know they are hoping to try and clear remaining figure in next 10 years or sooner just through sheer hard work . But if it is possible some are not enforceable then this would assist them greatly in moving forward.
Please advise on what you would like to know, and I’ll do my best to provide some information.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So no significant health problems then.
Asking for CCA agreements may make some debt unenforceable
For the rest, can they afford to pay more than they are currently paying? If they can, then one option is to put the extra side and make settlement offers to debts one at a time. So 2k can settle perhaps 4K of debt.
Mac says
I will discuss with them .
They are looking to try and increase payment soon , at present that is on hold as cost of living is hindering that . But even if they could
Increase payment just small amount that seems positive . I will definitely put in motion the CCA and see where we go from there . I will be sure to keep you posted , and likely more advise needed.
Can you offer explanation as why the defaults are not on credit file , they both have very high credit scores now , not something I understand .
It’s a minefield , and no doubt DCA capitalise on that .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A debt with a default date drops off after 6 years from the default date. That is likely to be what has happened to these debts.
When does their current mortgage fix end? Because at that point the mortgage payments may need to increase significantly.
Mac says
They are in private rented accommodation had to sell up when things got tough for them sadly ☹️…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And how large are these debts? How much are they paying a month?
Mac says
I say around 20k , pay £160 was
much less at start . But job
changes etc along the way have allowed them to increase. Currently with Payplan .
I have asked them to request what the balance was at time they entered into DMP , and also to action the credit agreement request etc.
They are making progress for sure , but I want to look at how they might be able to gain on that .
Rob says
Hi, I lost my job a few years ago with a credit card with a £4500 limit, rang credit card company and they said to pay £1 a month until I was back on my feet, debt went above the £4500 limit, I quickly got another lower paid job, within a short time the cc company quickly moved the debt to Cabot, I made an agreement with the credit card company only of £1 a month so continued to pay to my original agreement to the cc company, Cabot have written to me many times over the years saying that the cc company are passing my payments over to them, but they would like me to pay them directly, I have ignored as still not that well off and stuck to my original agreement, my default will be 6 years old in December 2023, what would happen if I stop paying, technically I have never acknowledged or responded to Cabot, and all the payments they have received we passed to them from my old cc company not me directly? Thanks Rob
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is absolutely no point in refusing to switch to paying Cabot.
This default will drop off your credit record (I am assuming there is a default, and it hasn’t just been marked as a payment arrangement) 6 years from the default date. Cabot should use the same default date so that will drop off too,
By paying £1 to the debt each month you have been “acknowledging” it. This debt will not become statute barred when the default drop off.
If you stop paying, now or after the default drops off, Cabot may go to court for a CCJ.
I have stuck to my original agreement
The lender made a temporary agreement with you. Not a permanent one. You can’t insist on paying £1 for ever.
What are the rest of your finances like?
Paris says
Hi, I’ve been paying a CCJ I received for college fees (I thought student finance had paid for them but I ended up getting a CCJ). I was promised by the debt company that if I arrange a payment plan they’d not take it to court. Which I did, then revived the CCJ. Can I stop paying after 6 years? I shouldn’t have even had to pay the fees in the first place, I’m sure student finance didn’t pay because the college didn’t complete their paperwork.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What are the rest of your finances like at the moment?
I’m afraid practically it’s probably way too late to dispute the original debt – it’s a shame you did take advice at the time.
Tania says
I’ve been paying a ccj for the past 8 years, I don’t recognise the debt but paid towards it as I was worried. I’ve now asked for proof it’s my debt but been told as it’s a ccj they don’t need to provide proof, is this correct and if they don’t provide proof can I stop paying or can they take me to court again. It’s apparently a credit card
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They don’t have to produce the CCA agreement for the debt when there is a CCJ. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 to discuss what your options are here and whether you may be able to show this debt is not yours – after so long this may not be easy but find out if anything can be done.
Arif says
Hi Sara,
I haven’t paid off a debt to PayPal credit which has now been removed off my credit report after 6 years however this was taken by a debt collector before this was removed. I did have a payment plan with them. Do I still need to pay and if not will the affect my chances of a mortgage or borrowing in the future?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do I still need to pay
Yes, this debt is not statute barred as you have been making payments. If you stop paying the debt collector is likely to go to court for an CCJ
will the affect my chances of a mortgage or borrowing in the future?
Yes, a mortgage lender will see the payments to the debt collector and know there was a default. The mortgage lender cares about problem debts and this is a problem. The fact it isn’t on your credit record is irrelevant.
You need to settle this at least 6 months before a mortgage application. Partial settlement is fine.
JJ says
Good Morning Sara
You kindly gave me some advice earlier this year regarding CCA’s and claiming for Irresponsible Lending.
Currently Lowell have closed one account. Three accounts have provided copies of CCA agreements and the rest have not.
My reason for writing today is that PRA Group have written to me. They have been unable to provide CCA’s for two Barclaycard Accounts they purchased. I should add that I am in the process of pursuing Barclaycard for Irresponsible Lending, and although they have acknowledged my complaint they have not come to any decisions yet. The letter from PRA states :
We are writing to let you know that the account listed below will now be re-assigned to Barclaycard on 27/09/2023.
PRA will now stop reporting account on your credit file, and any future reporting will be done by Barclaycard where the default occured within the last 6 years.
Any thoughts you have on this would be appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was the balance on this account?
have Barclaycard responded to your complaint?
JJ says
The balance was approximately £ 2500.00
Barclaycard have written to me twice acknowledging receipt of my claim but asking for more time. They have also telephoned and confirmed they are looking into the matter. I haven’t heard anything from the for over a month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Perhaps they are going to make you an Offer and are buying back the debt In preparation.
How long ago did you send in the complaint?
JJ says
I wrote to them In June this year.
Maybe they are’ will keep you posted.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you contact them and ask when you will be getting a response as your complaint goes to the Ombudsman if you have not had one in a week.
JJ says
Thank you Sara I will do that today.
I actually sent irresponsible lending emails re 8 accounts in total and to date only Barclaycard have responded albeit only an acknowledgement of receipt and requesting more time.
When I write to the Ombudsman can I write one letter and list all the lenders in detail in the one letter.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. These are separate complaints to the Ombudsman.
JJ says
Sara
RE AFFORDABILITY CLAIM(S) BARCLAYCARD
My thanks to you for your help, patience and advice.
Barclaycard have refunded me £ 4776.98 in interest and £461.40 for my second Barclaycard which is currently with PRA the current balance on this account is £5657.82 To date they have still not settled with PRA. As PRA could not provide a signed CCA I am thinking of writing to them suggesting that the amount they will receive from Barclaycard should suffice as full and final settlement.
I would appreciate your comments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Barclays have paid you the money for the first card?
PRA have agreed the debt is currently unenforceable? Have you made any payments to PRA?
Ms L says
I have the exact same case but I have had a letter back saying the bank will send statements of the payments which, they have but can’t find the application and can’t prove liability. Should I just continue paying the monthly £2 or is this the same as them not being able to provide the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This debt is defaulted? How long ago was the account opened? What sort of debt was it? Has it been sold to a debt collector?
Have you formally asked for the CCA agreement?
Miss E Lyf says
I have been contacted by a debt collector, for a loan I think I may have taken in 2006, it is for around 15k. I requested details and received a letter stating that the bank, the original creditor can not find the original application and can’t prove liability, only provide a statement, the statement of account shows the small payments I have been paying since 2010 and adjustments but it isn’t a CCA. Should I send a request for the CCA, I don’t believe I took a loan for 15k. If they can’t find the CCA is this an enforceable debt? Thank you in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you haven’t asked for the CCA?
Has the debt collector said it is unenforceable?
Are you still making small payments?
Miss E Lyf says
I’ve not asked for the CCA and the dca arranged for the bank their client to send me a statement, I initially thought I hadn’t been paying anything and it was statute barred but this statement shows otherwise. I the dca has sent a letter saying the bank have sent a statement but have said they can’t find the application so can not prove liability. No one has said it is unenforceable, I don’t know if this was defaulted. Its so long ago. When the 2 pound arrangement was made it was with banks solicitor company that ceased to exist when they were made to some years ago because they were fined for being deceptive but I’ve moved loads of times sorted my life out and had just kept paying the 2 pounds without knowing. Should I formally request the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes I think that would be a good idea. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ which has a link to the template to use.
Miss E Lyf says
Hi Sara.
I’ve had a response from the DCA stating that the bank can not provide the CCA but believe the statements they have sent are enough to prove liability of the outstanding amount. I dispute that I owe this amount. I’m not sure what to do next here. Can they still take me to court or use bailiffs against me? Thanks in advance.
It’s HSBC bank, Moorcroft DCA, I believe they are collecting on behalf of the bank.
The statement doesn’t tell me what the debt is but the initial letter said loan. I just don’t know where to go from here.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply to Moorcroft saying that if the lender cannot supply the CCA agreement for the loan when asked, the debt is unenforceable in court. Point out that CONC 13.1.6 says
“(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.”
Ask Moorcroft to confirm that the debt is unenforceable while HSBC are unable to supply a true copy of the agreement.
E Lyf says
I’ve finally had a response. It states that the bank can see I made an application for £19250 to be paid over 96 months, I have no record of borrowing this much and at the time earned about that amount a year. The amount has changed since the initial demand as well. The letter also states I am not liable for the debt as they have no credit agreement but I am liable for the balance on the account which I dispute. I have been paying 2 pounds a month on what I had thought was a credit card and overdraft since 2009. Where does this leave me legally and should I complain to the ombudsman at this point? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you actually made a complaint to HSBC/Moorcroft about this?
E Lyf says
Yes and they have then sent me a letter saying we can see you applied for the amount and repayments were meant to be over 96 months and that they can’t provide the credit agreement but I’m still liable. The amount has changed and although I had an account I didn’t borrow that amount. I don’t know where to go with disputing the amount.
They are now saying its £19250. It has jumped from £15250 in October.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, was your complaint to moorcroft or HSBC?
did the response to it say you had the right to go to the Ombudsman?
(NB I think you have a very good case here. I know someone else who has a similar case at the Ombudsman about a very old HSBC debt at the moment and it seems to be going well. And the fact they have just increased the balance makes yours even stronger. So I am asking these questions to try to get the next step exactly right.)
E Lyf says
The complaint was to both and both have responded even offering me £50 for not getting back to me. I’ve repeatedly asked for the credit agreement and used the letter I think you referenced. But HSBC has told me I have the right to go to the ombudsman now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, that is good. Your complaint against HSBC should now go to the Ombudsman – no need to complain about moorcroft as well.
Page to start Ombudsman complaint is here: https://help.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/help
It’s pretty straightforward.
In “Tell us about your complaint – what happened?”
give a brief history of events since November last year. Mention that you send Moorcroft, HSBC’s debt collector, National Debtline’s template to ask for the CCA agreement. They replied that HSBC can not provide the CCA but believe the statements they have sent are enough to prove liability of the outstanding amount.
Say you are complaining about two things.
1) you dispute the balance of the debt now owing. When you were first contacted in October (?) it was £15250. But they are now saying that you borrowed more so it is £19250. Say you did not accept that 15250 was correct, you never borrowed the amount originally that they are suggesting and they have not shown you any statement of the account that justifies either amount as it does not go back before 2010.
2) HSBC/Moorcroft just keep repeating that you are still liable for the debt (which you do not dispute, although you do dispute the amount) and refuse to confirm to you that the debt is currently unenforceable as they cannot produce the CCA. You have quoted the CONC 13 rules about not misleading a customer but they have ignored this.
In How have you been affected – financially or otherwise?
Say you have carried on paying £2 a month which you would have stopped if they had confirmed the debt was unenforceable. But the main impact on you has been the frustration and stress of dealing with Moorcroft and HSBC, which has increased over the months.
In Why do you disagree with how the business has handled your complaint so far, and how would you like them to put things right for you?
Say they have failed to respond to your clear queries. You can’t tell if they have failed to read your emails properly and send back stock, irrelevant answers, or if they are trying to be deliberately evasive and not tell you the debt is currently unenforceable in order to pressure you to pay more. Say that the way they have now increased the balance without providing a statement of the account has made this worse.
Say that if they cannot produce a statement of the account from the beginning, you think they should write off the whole debt as you dispute both balances they have suggested.
Say that if they can produce a statement justifying a balance, you would like HSBC to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable in court as CONC 13 sets out.
Say you would also like £250 compensation for very poor complaint handling which seems to be in breach of the Consumer Duty.
E Lyf says
Hi Sara
I have had an email asking me the below.
“The bank believe Complaint One is time barred which means we may not be able to investigate this part of your complaint. So, I need to consider whether we’re able to look into this in line with the rules that govern our service.
The loan was taken out in 2007 and defaulted in 2010 when it was then transferred to HSBC Repayment Services. And this happened more than 6 years ago.
With the above in mind, please can I ask you to provide the following:
You raised Complaint One to HSBC on 11 January 2024. Can you provide some commentary about what prompted you to raise your complaint then.
Can you also tell me why you did raise your complaint sooner. Were there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from doing so?” I think I know how to respond but just wanted to run it past you. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is “complaint One”? and what are your other complaints?
E. Lyf says
(Complaint One)
You don’t believe you’re liable for the outstanding debt balance as you’ve said in October 2023, the balance was £15,318.19 but it’s now increased to £19,250. HSBC hasn’t confirmed whether the debt is unenforceable, and it’s been unable to provide you a copy of the original credit agreement for this loan.
2) (Complaint Two)
HSBC responded to the complaint above and issued its final response letter to the wrong address on 4 March 2024.
Although she hasn’t actually read what I wrote. I pretty much wrote as you had suggested a couple of comments above and I will correct on this when I respond.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you need to go back and say that having thought about this you want to make an important point.
You do not think that time barring is relevant for this complaint because you are complaining about HSBC’s refusal in the last year to to confirm to whether, as they have been unable to produce the CCA agreement, the debt in enforceable and this is in breach of CONC 13.1.6 which says:
“(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.”. This has nothing to do with the date of the debt. ”
Say the you are not disputing the debt exists, or saying that it is statute barred, or that you are not liable for it. You just want HSBC to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable in court as they canniot produce the CCA agreement.
E. Lyf says
Hi Sara.
You mentioned that I should get back to you especially if it’s not going well. It doesn’t seem to be. She has forwarded her response to the bank & it looks as if the bank have said the time that it has taken to make the complaint was too long. I asked why there was no mention of the first part of my complaint “why they hadn’t answered if the debt is enforceable” I had this response. “Thank you for your emails, the contents of which have been noted.
It’s worth noting that I acknowledge you feel I’ve missed part of your complaint however, I’ve not looked into your complaint. As HSBC raised issues about whether you’d referred your complaint to our service in time, this is what I’ve considered in my outcome in the first instance.”
I have also had a further letter from the debt collector stating it isn’t enforceable. Is it the right time to stop paying the 2 pounds a month. As far as I am aware they do not have the original agreement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the debt collector has now admitted that the debt is not enforceable?
E. Lyf says
I have received a first letter from the debt collector stating “we can confirm that it is our understanding that the account is unenforceable whilst our client is currently unable to provide a copy of the original agreement. It is also our understanding that this would only be relevant only with regards to court action”
Then a second letter saying “sorry you didn’t respond to our previous letter, we understand you may be experiencing difficulties, neither we nor our client want to take further debt recovery action (such as further letters or call) but we do need to discuss this account with you”
E. Lyf says
Not sure if I posted my reply. Yes, the debt collector has basically said in 2 letters that it is their understanding that the debt is not enforceable and that they won’t bother me with calls or letters but that they do need to speak to me about arranging repayment. I still dispute the amounts they are suggesting I owe. Thanks Eve
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so 2 things – what you should say to the ombudsman and what you should say to the debt collector.
I think you should tell FOS that you don’t agree that this complaint is time barred because you are complaining that HSBC have not given you accurate information as to whether the debt is enforceable at the moment. The fact the debt is old is irrelevant. However as the debt collector HSBC is using has now told you “we can confirm that it is our understanding that the account is unenforceable whilst our client is currently unable to provide a copy of the original agreement” you no longer need to pursue this complaint. Although if HSBC subsequently change their mind about enforceability without providing the CCA agreement, you will be making a new complaint and taking that to FOS.
And I think you should go back to the the debt collector in writing and saying that you will not be speaking to them about any payment arrangement first because the debt is unenforceable and secondly because you dispute the amount of the debt. And cancel your £2 a month payment.
E. Lyf says
Thank you. I really appreciate your advice.
JJ says
Apologies I worded that badly. Barclaycard have written to me, I have received nothing myself so far from Barclaycard.
The first card they refunded £ 2373.01 in interest and £ 770.16 in fees. The refunds are to be offset against my current outstanding balance of £ 2,323,17 currently held with PRA Group. Barclaycard have bought the debt back rom PRA and I am due a refund of £ 817.00 plus 8% compensatory interest on the credit balance of £817.00 less £ 54.81 for income tax. Therefore, this account has a total credit balance of £ 1,050.65. Despite giving Barclaycard details of the account to which the funds should be paid into, I have received nothing yet. I did receive a letter on 11 November apologising for the delay.
Card No 2 again with held with PRA Group outstanding balance £ 5657.82 I have been told I will be refunded £ 4776.98 and £461.40 fees however, as yet I have received nothing.
i should have mentioned I am on a DMP with Stepchange and have been paying for both Barclaycards for almost 4 years av. £10.00 per month
Arif says
I have an outstanding loan with lending stream now managed by ACI – this does not appear on my credit report and never has – do I need to pay this back?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What credit report are you looking at? Did you have previous loans from LS?
Arif says
I use clearscore which shows every account I’ve ever had except the loan with lending stream. This was the first and only loan I’ve taken with them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then I suggest you also look at credit reports for Experian and TransUnion – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this.
when did you default on this loan? Are you making payments to ACI?
Carol says
Hello,
I have a credit card in default and have been paying £1 a month for 4 years. After 6 years I believe the default will drop off , but can it change to a ccj if the company sells the debt ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your current creditor can choose to go to court for a CCJ even if you are still making an agreed token payment – it makes no difference if it is still on your credit record or has dropped off.
What is your current financial situation like? Do you have other problem debts?
TG says
Hello, firstly thank you for all the valuable info you provide, I am sure many people appreciate the work you do.
I have a few of questions if I may please; theoretically speaking, If someone can no longer pay debts and they stop paying, would the timer for statute barred start from the last payment made, if through a 3rd party, or when the default happened? Would companies be likely to pursure someone for circa £9k debt in the form of a CCJ if over 50% has been paid off and then they stopped paying, if all further correspondence / communication was ignored by both creditors & court, what could possibly happen?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The time is a period during which no payments are made, so from the last payment
If you stop Paying a CJ the creditor could could look to enforce it through bailiffs, attachment of earnings, etc.
An alternative if you could pay less is to vary the amount the court set as the monthly payment. talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this. If you can’t pay anything you could request a write off or, if you have other debts, look at debt options such as a debt relief order
Gavin says
Hi
I defaulted on credit cards and a personal loan in 2007 (17 years ago) and I have been making payments to the credit agencies every month who took them over in 2007 of £1 £1 £2 and £2. My credit rating is very good and I have never had a CCJ. I have new credit cards and I have different circumstances now and much better managing my money. Should I keep paying these debts and leaving the £6 a month to keep going out of my account as they have hardly ever been in contact with me. I was contacted by one of them in 2019 and one of them Cabot Financial has just contacted me again for a run down of my expenses. Should I continue to keep paying? Am I within my rights to just stop?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As you have been paying the debts, they will never become “statute barred” – too old to be enforceable. So if you stop paying or refuse to co-operate with Cabot, it’s possible they can take you to court for a CCJ.
BUT the creditors may no longer be able to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for old loans and credit cards as these are so very old… Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ and think about asking for these. If they can’t be produced, just stop paying.
Andrew says
Hello Sara and Team
I defaulted 5 years ago. The debt was passed to Cabot Financial for recovery. This shows as a “default” also on my account with similar dates. Since then, I have been paying £100 a month to Cabot to clear the debt.
My question is, if the default with the original lender (Halifax) comes off after 6 years. Will the “new” debt with Cabot also come off at the same time, or will it continue showing on my credit file because the debt (with Cabot) has not yet been cleared.
i.e. in 6 years, the default with Halifax drops off, but will a new credit search show “CAbot debt active, and it is a default”
Thank you for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Will the “new” debt with Cabot also come off at the same time
yes. Cabot should have used the same default date as Halifax – have you checked on your credit record that they have?
Andrew says
Thank you Sara
Yes I’ve checked and there is actually a month difference for some reason – I can live with that.
Good to know that at the time of 6 years from default – both the default and Cabot debt disappear.
A final question that i just realised from looking at my file – I notice that old credit cards – even when cleared and closed – still showing on my file for 6 years after the last payment was made. To be clear – the Cabot file will disappear at same time as Halifax (original default) even thought it’s technically “live” ?
Thank you so much for your help – people like you give much needed comfort on these difficult situations :-)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Those old credit cards didn’t have a default date, did they?
Andrew says
No Sara, those old credit cards were normal, paid off and then closed.
I will feedback to this group when the day comes that 6 years clicks over and let you know what the impact was on credit score…
Thank you for your help.
Sarah J says
Hi, quick question.
My husband was issued with a CCJ almost 10 years ago for an unpaid amount on his credit card. The minimum payment of £1 has been made each month as per the court agreement. The debit has been passed to many management companies but now they are getting pushy and asking for the debit to be cleared in full.
Providing the CCJ is being paid each month is there anything the management company can pursue. The balance is around £10k.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is his current financial situation? does he have other debts?
Sarah says
His current financial situation is better than when the CCJ was issued 10 years ago, but doesn’t have a huge amount of disposable income. Yes he’s has about another 6/7 CCJ’s all £1 per month.
He also has current debts and a mortgage
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large are his current debts?
Sarah says
Unsecured £25k mortgage £60k
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The problem here is what to offer the CCJ creditor that is pushing, as he has other creditors who could potentially start.
I suggest he talks to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about what his options are for this and his other CCJs and current debts.
P.Sarah says
Hello
My house was repossessed about 12years ago with northern rock, they sold it for a shortfall of about £67k and my ex husband went bankrupt and left me with the debt. I’ve been paying a small amount every month since then. I have recognised the debt with them and it’s been sold through NRAM and recently Hessionate. I’ve had no contact from any of them from years other than to say debt was sold. I haven’t had any statement from years so concerned my payments are being adjusted with the sales. But I’m worried about opening dialogue again so I don’t have to get into chats around I&E as I could pay more than I am. But don’t want to as it would leave me with a short budget for years as the shortfall was £67k. Not sure what it is now. Is there anything I can do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you are still paying? was there a reasons you didn’t go bankrupt 12 years ago?
do you have other debts at the moment?
Sarah says
Yes I’m still paying towards it and have been for the last 12years. I can’t remember the exact reasons for not going bankrupt at the time I think I was worried about the long term impact. I have no other debts.
I do have car finance but my company pays me car allowance for that so need to have it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk through your options with National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. It may come down to doing nothing or bankruptcy, but it’s worth looking in detail
Jack says
Took out credit card in 2005 but got a default notice (without correct time period to settle) in 2006 .Started to pay £1pm then sent CCA to check docs, received cobbled forms, incorrect amount of loan etc.. CPUTR not responded to then CC Co sold to Cabot in 2016 and still paying £1pm 8 years later..I’ve never contacted Cabot and still actually paying original lender who have to t/f it to Cabot (me being bloody minded). So..I’m 74 now and debt still £4k…should I just carry on, risk a CCJ ? I don’t own a property but assume Cabot can claim from my estate when I die, the full£4k ? Obv debt is off my file but not statute barred …I don’t want to leave this to my kids to sort…what are my options please ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who was the original lender?
do you actually have any assets to leave? Once your funeral costs have been settled – they take top priority?
do you have any other debts?
jack says
Natwest…yes, cash and investments…I have no other debts…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It seems unlikely that Cabot will be able to produce a Consumer Credit Act agreement for the loan. It would be better to challenge this now, rather than leave it to your executors, who knows how the law could change in 20 years time…
The risk is that Cabot may want you to pay more a month in the unlikely event they can produce a valid looking CCA.
https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/
Jack says
Thankyou, I have to think..is it worth fighting Cabot about the agreement being defective,the default notice invalid, then what NatWest sent being incomplete.. will they want to fight it. they offered a settlement figure at about 1/3rd a while back… maybe they’d be happy with that still and I’d just end my feelings of wanting to prolong it. They write every month,so spend more than they receive.. decisions decisions
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t see any reason to fight about complicated old things until you know if Cabot can produce the CCA.
If they cant the debt is unenforceable and you stop paying.
But if you would rather not bother, then ask if a settlement is still available.
Simon Knight says
I defaulted over 6 years ago. The debt was passed to Cabot Financial for recovery. I have Been paying them £1 a month what happens if I stop paying will I get a ccj
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt was this originally?
Dan says
Hi Sara,
I have a couple of old CCJ’s, both of which have fallen off my credit report as they are both older than 6 years. I can’t remember how old they are, but I think they are approx 10 years old. They were for credit cards. I did NOT settle these and they have fallen off my credit report.
I have recently applied for a mortgage and I’m in the process of buying a house, as the ccjs have fallen off my credit report, the old CCJ’s did not affect me getting a mortgage.
Every so often they send me letters and they have knocked on my door once. The most frequent letter is a proposal to settle the debt at a reduced amount. Do I need to still pay these debts? Are they still enforceable? Are they still allowed to chase me for these debts?
Thank you for advance?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
After 6 years of not paying a CCJ, a creditor has to go back to court to get permission to enforce a CCJ. Which anecdotally hardly ever happens. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 if you are concerned.
Mrs M says
Hi
We have debts over 20 years old, they have been passed to various companies and we have been paying very small amounts for all this time, we are in our 70s and 80s and will never be able to clear them. Do we need to keep paying
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are these debts? How much are you paying a month to them?
Richard says
Hi – any advice on the following?
I had £15k of debt in 2007 with Barclays (bad money choices and access to instant loans with them). At the point of negociation, I was unemployed and got the interest frozen and payment agreed at £10/month. Since 2007 to now (18 years!) I have been paying £10/month continually to various agencies who took on the debt (BCW or a variant were the most common). Interest remained frozen and the £10/month was honoured, and I have a recent statement showing the debt now at just over 12k.
I updated my address with BCW whenever I moved home, and when attempting to do this the other week, got an email back today stating:
“We write with regard to your recent communication and advise that our file on this matter has been closed at our office and returned to the client. No further payments should be made to our office regarding the above.
Any further correspondence regarding this matter would need to go directly to Barclays Bank UK PLC.”
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you stop paying them and wait for Barclays to get in touch. At that point you can ask them to p[roduce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for all the loans and a statements of account. See https://nationaldebtline.org/get-information/guides/credit-agreements-getting-information-ew/ which has a template you can use. If they can’t (which for such extremely old loans is quite likely) then these are unenforceable in court and you can simply refuse to pay.