A reader asked:
I have a Debt Management Plan where I still owe 17k to 10 creditors. I have been paying for ten years at £150 a month, so it will end in about 8 years. Most of the debts have gone from my credit record but a few are marked as “on a DMP”.
I want to pay off the debts and improve my credit rating. I have been offered about 7k by a relative, so I could offer all my DMP creditors around 40%. How would settlements affect my credit rating? Is it worth me finding out if the debts are actually enforceable?
It’s a great idea to try to end a long-running Debt Management Plan (DMP).
I have already looked at offering settlements where the DMP had only been running a few years. And this Guide to F&Fs looks at the how to make a good full and final settlement offer to a creditor.
But this reader’s case is different:
- older debts have different options as it may be that the debts are unenforceable;
- there is the added complication of the different way his DMP is showing on his credit record.
Are the debts enforceable?
It’s best to do this before you offer a settlement.
For credit cards, catalogues and most loans, the debt collector has to be able to supply you with a copy of your Consumer Credit Act agreement if you ask for it. See How to ask for a CCA agreement, which looks at how to do this and when you should do it. It doesn’t apply to overdrafts, utility or mobile bills.
How likely is this to work?
This reader’s accounts are at least ten years old. It is likely that at least some of his current creditors may be unable to produce the CCA agreement:
- the older a debt is the less likely it is that it can be found;
- it is also harder to find if the debt has been sold to a debt collector, who usually has to ask the original creditor for it.
If it can’t be found
If the creditor can’t produce the CCA agreement for your debt, it is unenforceable.
I would allow the debt collector a couple of months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it. Three if you are feeling nervous.
The debt is still legal, it stays on your credit record and the creditor can ask you to pay it … but they can’t make you by taking you to court. The regulator says they have to explain this to you – they aren’t allowed to pretend you do have to pay it.
In this case you can simply stop paying the debt – or tell your DMP firm to stop paying it, explaining why.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found in in the first few months the chances of it turning up later seem very low! To prevent that being a problem, and to stop the odd polite letter, you may decide to offer them a really low settlement amount, say 5%.
But if you want to offer this low amount to tidy up the loose end, then it is best to stop paying the debt first for a couple of months. Then the creditor will realise you are serious about not carrying on paying them. And then make your low offer. If they reject it, just say then you won’t be paying them anything.
This is why it’s worth asking for the CCA agreement before making a good settlement offer. By clearing out of the way any unenforceable debts you will have more money left to settle the others.
When the CCA agreement is produced
If you aren’t sure that what you have been sent is a proper CCA, read “How can you tell if it’s right” in the main article on CCAs.
If the creditor produces the CCA agreement, then the reader can just make the full and final settlement offer of 40% that was planned. That is a very good offer for a debt that old if only low payments are being made. He can help ensure the offer is accepted by:
- explaining that the money is coming from a relative if it will help to settle the debt; and
- enclosing an income and expenditure statement showing that he can’t afford to increase his monthly payment.
The only downside to asking for a CCA agreement is that if the creditor finds it, they may then decide to go to court for a CCJ. But that would be pretty unusual if you are making them a good settlement offer!
Effect on your credit score
Settling debts doesn’t improve your credit rating. People often don’t believe that, it sounds so odd. In practice settling the debts makes some lenders much more likely to give you more credit and it’s vital if you want a mortgage in the next few years. But that headline credit score number will not change.
Where a debt already has a default date, it is going to disappear 6 years after that date and making a full and final settlement offer won’t change that. In this readers case the debts have already gone – they will not reappear.
For debts with an arrangement to pay marker and no default date, settling the debts will mean they drop off 6 years after the settlement.
It is a pity all the debts weren’t defaulted originally – the reader should ask the original creditor (not the current debt collector that owns the debt) to add a default to the record back before it was sold.
If that is done – and some creditors do agree easily – that will remove the debt sooner and improve the credit rating. But do this after asking for the CCA agreement and sorting out the F&Fs – it’s too complicated to try to do this all at once.
Do F&Fs make it harder to get a mortgage?
How does a DMP affect your credit score?
Do I have to pay a debt not on my credit file?
jones says
Getting settlement agreements is a nightmare as (in my experience) one company simply blames the other company for delays. My situation was further confusing as I was in the middle of a battle with the financial ombudsman about correctly getting defaults backdated or even applied in the first place so I could not stop paying those creditors at that point…….But yes – if all the creditors have defaulted you (and ideally dropped off) by all means stop paying and ask for full and final……It does get slightly messy though.
Jane says
All defaulted and off my credit file. When you say it gets messy, how do you mean?
Jones says
Messy as with multiple creditors, the ombudsman is involved with default issues, quite threatening letters off creditors, payplan wanting to know what’s happened to your repayments etc…. This was my experience. So I quickly nipped it in the bud by repaying the lowest full and final to the ones who did supply the original contract and the ones who were still fighting the default dates, ignoring the ones who couldn’t supply contracts and had defaulted and then closing the DMP and quickly buggering off to Bali for a month to hide lol….. No nasty letters on my return too
PM says
Spoke to PayPlan who I had already contacted re settling DMP.They have asked me to call my creditors to ask if they are still reporting on my credit file,have defaulted me & when or when they will stop.I have to offer them 25% .I asked about getting CCA first as some of loans might not able to be upheld.Payplsn strongly advised against asking for CCA first.They said to only ask for that if the creditors refuse offer….want to get this DMP done with asap but not sure what’s best to do !? Any advice please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is strange and unhelpful advice from Payplan. Why settle an unenforceable debt which is of your credit record for 25%? You want to settle those debts as cheaply as possible or simply stop paying them if they off your credit file already or soon to go. That way you will have more money if the debts where there is a CCA won’t accept 25%.
It is a good idea to check your credit records so you know exactly what they say now. But don’t ask your creditors this, do it your self as it’s faster and you don’t want to have to start a conversation with loads of creditors to find out the facts. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/
Then send out the CCA requests to loans, credit cards, catalogues. Not overdrafts or odd debts such as utilities that are in your DMP. You can offer the odd ones 25% now if you want, but for the rest, wait until you get the CCA. If they haven’t produced it in 2 months, tell payplan you want to stop paying them. Then offer them a settlement a couple of months later.
Yes this takes some time. But it may save you a lot of money. And you can’t be sure that all your creditrors will accept 25%…
PM says
Hi Sara So I checked my Credit file & only two of the debts are still on it.One will come off soon due to Ombudsman settlement (thanks).The other one is for £3900 credit card.
Should I just ask all for the CCA? I’m terrified something adverse goes back on my credit report? I’m desperately trying to cc lose my DMP, improve my very poor credit beating do I can get a mortgage.
Thanks
PM says
I settled 3 loans with NCO at 25% of total.No hassle at all .Barclaycard wanted 50% to settle so I have asked for CCA.Westcot for HSBC even worse…said no & wanted to take take me through a financial affordability questionnaire!! This is for a debt not on my credit report! Said no & send me the CCA.Payplan have asked me to offer 25% first but the attitude of these two companies makes me determined not to pay anything.What happens if they both come back with a CCA ? Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they come back with the CCAs then you need to carry on with your DMP or make a settlement offer that they will accept.
PM says
Thank you Sara.
Gary Edwards says
I’m surprised if Payplan said offer them 25%. When I tried to discuss full and final settlements with Payplan they informed me that creditors would be expecting settlements around 75%. Needless to say I decided to enter negotiations for full and final settlements myself and settled some of my debts at 35%. where the creditor had not sold the debt on. I settled with Barclays and Capital One, John Lewis were inflexible and the whole process of making claims with them was difficult due to their offer procedures.
I wrote to John Lewis to produce the cca back in September and despite several phone calls and broken promises on their part, they haven’t produced the cca or even acknowledged the request in writing. I’ve now written to John Lewis telling them that I am classing the debt as unenforceable and will not be paying them any more payments unless they can produce the cca. Luckily this debt is not on my credit file anymore.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds a good plan. If they ever produce the CCA you can then make an offer.
People get too hung up on getting offers agreed – if they can’t find the CCA and the debt isn’t on your credit record, just stop paying!
Gary Edwards says
I have two debts with Link Financial who bought the debts from Barclaycard. I have read many times including from discussions with Payplan that Link Financial are difficult to deal with. I have taken a different approach with Link Financial as these debts are still on my credit file. I wrote to them asking them to produce copies of the cca’s which they came back and advised they were unable to do. I am now fighting to get the default date changed on my credit file with the aim of having these debts fall off my credit file as they would be over 6 years old. I have not stopped paying these debts yet so defaults to appear on my credit file. It seems to be a common issue with Barclaycard that when they sell on debts they have not entered the credit default date on the credit file even when they have previously issued a written default notice. Link Financial then purchase the debt and start the default date as the date that they purchased the debt. Hopefully this month I will have confirmation that these debts have disappeared from my credit file after Barclaycard Complaints department agreed to amend the default date after I raised a complaint via Resolver. However to get this stage has been a battle with Link Financial and Barclaycard initially blaming each other for who was responsible for correcting the incorrect default date and Barclaycard Payments Solutions Team giving conflicting advice depending on which day of the week it was.
gareth says
I have an ongoing issue with Barclaycard and Link which never seems to end. Basically I got Barclaycard to change the default date to 2012 and they even sent me an £80 cheque to apologise. Annoyingly though, the default date has not been updated on 2 credit agencies but Experian still showing 2015 (but the others have updated it correctly).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
tell Barclaycard that unless the Experian record is corrected within a month you are sending the case to the Financial Ombudsman and asking for extra compensation.
Ange says
Hi my debt is 10 years old, I have been paying £10 per month for all of those ten years. Cabot was recently threatening a CCJ but I applied for the CCA documents back in November and they have now confirmed that they cannot get the information from the original lender and that my account is unenforceable. I think the original debt was around £2700 and is now £2000. The debt is no longer on my credit file and I really want to get rid of this debt/correspondence from this company. Should I stop paying? If I offer them a settlement offer I could only afford around £50. Many thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you stop paying – what are they going to do? They have said the debt is unenforceable. It can never reappear on your credit record. Save your £50 for something more useful!
Ange says
Thank you Sara, I was just worried that they might try to continue to pursue me for the debt, I would rather not pay the £50 if I don’t have to.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They can send you the odd letter saying the debt legally exists and you should make a payment arrangement, but each letter/email should also say that the debt is unenforceable. Come back here if you do have problems, most people don’t.
Ange says
Great, thank you. I have cancelled the direct debit and will let you know :)
Sarah says
I spoke to Hoist or Robinson Way what ever they call themselves about a debt that was sold to them through HSBC it was a loan. They admitted on the phone that they didn’t have a CCA and couldn’t get one. I emailed them to get this in writing and i received an email to day with them saying the CCA is excluded from the consumer act under section 5 so don’t have to produce one. Is this true? As an aside they said on the phone that it was an overdraft. Which it wasn’t. It was definitely a loan for £2000. I have never been given that size an overdraft.
Any thoughts/help please :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If it was an overdraft, there is no CCA to be produced. I suggest you reply to them that this was a loan, not an overdraft. Do you have any old letter from HSBC refering to the loan? How does this show on your credit record?
Jane says
Feel deflated. Have a debt with Cabot relating to an old mint card. Cabot confirmed in writing that they couldn’t locate the CCA therefore debt unenforceable 4 months ago. Plucked up courage to call them and offer full and final only to be told they’ve now got the paperwork and debt is now enforceable so wouldn’t accept my offer. (20%). I’ve asked them to send the CCA to me to Check and they are but now thinking bit of a coincidence they’ve now found it? Would they actually fun that they have it to get me to increase my f&f?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s unusual for a CCA to turn up late, but see what they send you. If you aren’t sure that is a real CCA, then see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ which has a section entitled How can you tell if it is right?
PS if they cant find the CCA then 20% is a very high amount to offer them!
Brian says
Hi – I had a Barclaycard account which defaulted in June 2014. The debt was sold to Link Financial later that year and I have been making a smallish agreed payment to them monthly. The balance is now around 5k and if I maintain my current payment it will take around 30 years to repay…
Wondered if anyone could give me any advice as to how to proceed after June this year when the debt and default fall off of my records. I want them off my radar asap tbh but am realistic in realising that I can’t just stop paying and risk a CCJ.
I have previously made to f+f offers of around 40% which they rejected – the figures they came back with were about 75% of the debt. After the default goes are they more or less likely to accept a low f+f ?
Any advice gratefully received
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The credit record isn’t really relevant to them. Do you have other problem debts to or this the only one?
Brian says
I also have an Argos account in default since Jan 2015 which was sold to Lowell, but they have never been able to provide me with the signed agreement and have not contacted me since 2016. As far as I am concerned they have given up on that one.
I have worked hard to clear my other debts and barring these two I am virtually debt free for the first time in 35 years (mortgage aside). Its more about finally breaking free from debt rather than keeping on paying and paying on the Barclaycard debt for years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked Link for the CCA for the Barclaycard?
Brian says
No I haven’t. When would be the best time for me – before it after June this year ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it doesn’t make any difference. Either they have the CCA or they don’t.
Brian says
Ok thanks. I will send your pro forma letter with a cheque for £1 by signed for post and see what comes back. I assume that they will need to request the CCA from Barclaycard ?
I plan to continue making the agreed payments at this stage as from previous replies etc that seems the right thing to do ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I usually suggest carrying on making payments for a couple of months. After that you may decide to assume that don’t have it and can’t get it from Barclaycard. This isn’t a very old debt so they may able to produce it but it’s worth a try.
Brian says
ok thanks – if they do provide it I guess I’m stuck with it then and my options will be limited to either continuing to make monthly payments or hope to get a reduced settlement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
exactly.
Brian says
Ok – I’ll let you know how it goes.
Thanks for all your help.
Regards
Lisa says
Hi
I have two debts through Moorgroup and one with Link Financial. I wrote to both of them at the beginning of January enclosing £1 for each debt asking for the agreements. I havent heard anything from Link so chased this via an email. Moorgroup returned the £2 on the 8th January and said their client no longer asks for this contribution. They said that they had asked their client for the info (Arrow Global Ltd) but they had not yet heard back. I chased this last week and received an email today stating:
“We write to advise that we are still communicating with our client in respect of your raised query.
During these communications, follow-up action will be suspended on this account and we will endeavor to provide you with an appropriate response to your query as soon as possible.”
Should I stop paying?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I normally suggest you give 2 months before you stop paying. But it’s not scientific.
Lisa says
Great thank you for the advice I will see if they have anything after another month.
NIna says
hi i have a debt intrum currenly on a repayment plan of £1 a month, they recently offered a 70% discount off £1200 balance and was considering asking a family member.
However they have told me that a partical settlement wont show on my credit file as this came off a few months ago due to been over 6 years old but they only purchased this debt in 2019 but im not sure if from another debt collector or the company itself which was a tesco credit card, what do you suggest do i pay the reduced and settle or can i ask for a cca and try and stop all payments? thanks Nina
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“they have told me that a partial settlement wont show on my credit file”
that is correct. if it has dropped off your credit record, it will never reappear.
Would you have to repay this family member? I wouldn’t suggest you should get into debt with family – which can be quite stressful – when you are just paying £1 a month. better to just plod on, surely?
If you do want to settle it, asking for the CCA agreement can be sensible.
Rina says
Hello Sara,
I made a request to Idem in January for a copy of my CCA which they are unable to locate and confirmed this by letter on 12th Feb. I have a DMP through StepChange and made Feb payment to Idem and intend to make March but then want to stop and have funds reallocated to existing debts on the plan (while I wait for copies of the CCAs requested) I contacted StepChange to notify them and received their response: “While the debts are no longer enforceable they are still outstanding debts that need to be paid. With the debts being unenforceable it means the creditors can’t take legal action, the debt is still owed though. You should continue to make your payments towards your DMP.”
Where do I stand on this? I don’t want to stop paying if it will cause further problems for myself but would rather use the funds for other enforceable debts. I tried to make a 25% offer in F&F for this debt (£450) through StepChange but was advised it would unlikely be accepted as I only have 2.5 years left on the DMP.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that you want the debt removed from your DMP as this will assist you to repay your other debts that are enforceable sooner.
If they don’t agree, I suggest you say you will take over paying your creditors yourself. This is pretty easy for old DMPs. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/how-much-work-dmp/. And it puts you in control.
Hannah Jones says
Hi Sara
Hope you can help me . I have just been advised by Robinson way that they do not have the cca so the debt can’t be taken to court . I offered 5% to clear the balance but they have just written back to me saying that they want me to provide a list of all of my creditors and provide a list of outgoings , I only updated this in December. It’s all very stressful . I have still have one years left on this debt and I am trying to get a mortgage and would like the account settled. Any advice what I should say to them.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the debt showing on your credit record? Are you currently making any payments?
Hannah says
Hi Sara
Thanks for getting back to me. The balance is £750, I am paying £1 a month for the last year as at the start of last year I was made redundant, so stopped paying the £100. I am now back in full time work .I have offered £36 which is 5% . Yes it is still showing on credit report .
Thanks
Hannah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is there a default date on the record on your credit report? were you making normal payments up until the start of last year? and is this your only problem debt?
Andrew says
Hello Sara, hope you are keeping well during these difficult times!
I just wanted to ask: We (the wife and I) are in a joint DMP with Payplan since 2010. Now looking to bring our debt era to an end.
We have contacted our DCA’s with CCA requests, every single one of them (listed below) are unable to find a copy etc…. The letters were received last month..
idemservicing – “unable to find, can take whatever action I see appropriate but not releasing me from the agreement”
Cabot – “Unable to obtain and unenforceable, but please continue to pay via payplan”
PRA – “Account on hold, unable to find” and another one “unenforceable”
Moorcroft – “unable to locate documents”
NCO. – “account on hold, unable to locate”
I have received reconstituted for 2 accounts but they include no dates or signatures.
Payplan said this was unusual and advised me to contact the ombudsman, I did but no reply yet.
What should be my next step? All apart from PRA have come and gone plus 6 years.
1. wait a bit longer.. then stop paying.
2. Wait a bit longer then offer a 5% settlement F & F no credit file entries
Your expert advice is greatly appreciated. :)
Andrew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have received reconstituted for 2 accounts but they include no dates or signatures.
were these some of the debts you have listed above? which?
have all the debts dropped off your credit record?
Andrew says
Barclaycard (PRA) and Argos (Moorcroft) are reconstitutes.
Looking at my file PRA is 5 year ago and the only one left, however they all defaulted way before then with the original creditor so will try and get them to remove..
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you need to ask the original creditor to add a default date.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So are PRA and Moorcroft saying these debts are enforceable or not?
Andrew says
Sorry, yes both PRA and Moorcroft unenforceable also…
I see, so ask them to add the date back in 2011, then It will right itself…?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so for every debt, the debt collector has said in writing that it is unenforceable? is that right?
I don’t understand what you have asked the ombudsman about?
Andrew says
Yes, they have all said “unenforceable” or “we can’t enforce”.
I have received two reconstituted agreements but neither contain dates, my address or signature / signature tick box.
Payplan said I should contact the ombudsman as it seems odd that none of the dca’s have the agreements.
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
But what do you want the Ombudsman to say?
This doesn’t make sense, you have exactly the result you want, the debts are unenforceable. It’s common for old debts to be unenforceable, you got lucky that all yours are.
FOS will in any case not usually rule on whether a debt is enforceable or not.
Unless there is sone reason you haven’t mentioned, you may want to think about ending the FOS case.
Andrew says
FOS, I agree with you, I have only emailed them for advice but never heard back from.
It is really good news, what should my next step be with them?
Wait a couple of months then get Payplan to stop the payments?
Email / write to the dca etc… saying..
Thanks again.
Rena says
Hello Sara,
Hope you can help! I have 3 debts on my DMP with Stepchange that are managed by PRA Group (2 Egg, 1 Barclaycard) I’ve successfully got PRA Group to backdate default date on one to 2010 (& removed from my credit file) but still waiting for original copies of CCA for all 3 debts (Requested on 30/01/2020) I get a holding email every month “I refer to your dispute raised on 30 January 2020. We are currently awaiting further information to enable us to resolve the dispute. Be assured, the account continues to remain on hold during our investigation period.”
Just wanted advice on how much longer I should wait and/or next steps?
Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you give then until the end of the month. Then tell StepChange that you would like the debts removed from your DMP.
How many more debts are left in the DMP?
Rena says
Thanks Sara. These are the last 3 debts so will my DMP close if I inform Stepchange to remove the debts?
In relation to another debt (that Idem said was unenforceable) Stepchange told me that i should continue paying as the debt is still valid. I cancelled anyway. Is Stepchange correct in it’s advice?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes your DMP will close. If PRA pop up with the CCAs later, you can then make a payment arrangement direct with them.
StepChange are correct that debts still legally exist. Should you continue paying I see as an ethical question – it’s up to you if you want to but legally you do not have to.
Rena says
Thanks Sara.
As always, very helpful!
Andy says
Hi Sara,
Can I ask what a reconstituted CCA needs to have please?
I have one from Argos which looks like a typed letter. It doesn’t have any date or credit limit.
Another one from Barclaycard, which has an incorrect address and just a photocopy of the terms and conditions and no cca.
Thank you for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#How_can_you_tell_if_it_is_right
Hasan says
I have 2 defaults against 2 credit cards. Default is registered with PRA (£5k) and Robinson Way (£7k) in December 2018. The cards were originally taken out 8 and 10 years ago respectively over the phone. Ive been unable to pay anything yet. I have cooperated with the agencies and advised them I am currently unemployed. I cannot get any CCJ as I work in banking. I have not had a payment plan as my outgoings exceed my income and now have no savings left. As part of my plans I intend to try get a Mortage in next 2 years (as I understand companies still lend). My questions are as follows;
1) I haven’t set up any payment plan depite me saying I am willing to pay a small amount. This worries me if I ask for the CCA now they will think I don’t intend to pay and risk a CCJ? Do you think I should pay £1 at least even if they are not asking for it to protect myself?
2) what is your view on the following options…. pay £1 a month until 6 years pass, settle the account in full original amount or pay a discounted settlement – what will work best if I want to get Mortage. If I already have a default what difference does it make?
Thanks
Hasan 🙏🏽
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As part of my plans I intend to try get a Mortage in next 2 years (as I understand companies still lend).
with no savings and no job, how do you expect to be able to save the deposit?
how can you pay any discounted settlement?
Hasan says
yes some of this is based on some hypothetical assumptions, but once i am back into work my wife and i should be able to save and start again. I am back living with parents so once I am back working in a job that has even half the pay I was getting at the banks should be enough to save. As we are first time buyers I am hoping to utilize Help to buy / shared ownership options.
With regards to the discounted settlement I will be back into work at some point so this question is more about financial planning for the coming years and what options i have available to me.
I had a very well paid job in the city which due to cost cutting I will need to make some changes to my life and get it back on track.
So given my current circumstances and with the assumptions that things will improve once i am back into work how can I approach this please?
p.s i may also be able to get family to help if i get a good enough discount I can probably get hold of the money but only if its a big discount….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s very unlikely you will get a big discount anytime soon. Your defaults are too recent. You can ask for the CCA but you are taking a risk that they will find it. And even if the CCA cant be found, that doesn’t mean you will be able to settle at 5% or 10% when its going to be on your credit record for another 4 years.
If you can go back to a very well paid job, well your debts aren’t enormous, just settle them then.
Hasan says
Problem is I dont think I will be able to to go back to ding what i did due to my work being offshored so I will need to find something else so it will be a hard push to fully settle the total amount.
is there anything you can suggest how I maybe able to deal with this. Currently i am not paying anything. Should I at least set up a payment plan paying what i can say £10 a month for each? keep this going for 2-3 years years and then ask for the CCA then try for a settle with a discount? Do you think there would be any other ways of using leverage to obtain a discount T&Cs etc? I just want to pay the thing off but without a discount it will be a while.
Thank you Sara, i appreciate your valuable and straight talking advice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Setting up a an affordable payment is a good idea. But if you are on UC the amount you can afford may be nothing. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about working out what you can afford.
There is no set time at which you should ask for a CCA. The older the default, the easier it may be to get a settlement offer.
I don’t think you are in a position to do much apart for set up a payment arrangement and job hunt at the moment.
Hasan says
Hi Sarah,
An update on my situation… with some luck I have managed to turn my situation around. I have managed to get funds to pay down my 13k debt with 2 lenders currently in default.
As I am now in a position to pay is it worth me asking for a CCA? If they find it I am able to pay so thats no longer a worry for me now, but as the loan book as been sold on i am thinking it may be worth asking for it. Bearing in mind I have not been gifted this money its effectively refinancing the debts with a low interest loan – with the main intention to have the default removed. However, I am now wondering if I should ask for the CCA from both parties.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Refinancing defaulted credit cards on which interest has been stopped is not a sensible idea, even at a low rate of interest.
And even if you repay them in full, the defaults will not be deleted.
But if you really want to settle them in full now, then yes, why not ask for the CCA? Then at least you can save the money and not pay them if the CCA can’t be produced. .
Jimmy says
Is the rent to buy an option with defaults on your credit file? I am kind of in the same situation as yourself with about 10k in debt that I hope to have cleared either fully or partially and they are defaulted since mid 2019. I would also want to get a mortgage in the next few years. What way is this all going for you?
Thanks in advance.
Jimmy
Weatherman says
Hi Jimmy
I’m not Hasan, but thought I’d chip in anyway!
Your best bet is to speak to a Housing Association running a Rent to Buy scheme, to be honest. No harm in doing that. But there are two things to think about:
– The rental contract. Housing Associations and councils are usually less scared of a poor credit rating (it can make it hard to rent privately, however)
– The purchase. Depending on how old the defaults are when you’re looking for a mortgage, and the rest of your situation (how many times your income you want to borrow, and the size of your deposit), you might find it hard to find a lender and/or have to pay a higher rate. You could speak to a mortgage broker that specialises in bad credit, but it might be a better option to wait until the defaults are off your report (6 years after they went on).
I hope that’s helpful, and good luck!
Hasan says
Hi Jimmy, Weatherman, Sara,
An update on my situation. It’s been a full 2 months so far since I requested CCA from 2 lenders Robinson way and PRA. The docs still have not turned up but from my understanding need to give at least 3 months or wait for confirmation that CCA cannot be found. I had taken the credit cards out over 10 years ago so I doubt they will find it. I intend to put an offer in but the default is only been there for 1.5 years on each. In anticipation of receiving the confirmation how much can I offer? 6k and 7k is what I owe.
As for the the question Jimmy has asked; I have actually got some good feedback off a specialist lender for bad credit. Please confirm with his yourself with independent advice but I was told default they can work with. There are products out there (maybe less so now due to covid-19) however with government he’ll to buy this should help by putting a larger depots down to counteract the higher rate of interest. The rates I am told are not significantly higher. Anyway, I’m still out of work and have been for since the start of the pandemic. I’m screwed either way as are many other people. They are welcome to limbs however I’m starting to think if I even want a debt ridden life for an overpriced small house for the rest of my life. If I lose my job again I will only be back on this blog…. Sara you work is amazing by the way. I don’t know where I would be be without your help and contribution from others – thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My comment is the same as before.
“It’s very unlikely you will get a big discount anytime soon. Your defaults are too recent. You can ask for the CCA but you are taking a risk that they will find it. And even if the CCA cant be found, that doesn’t mean you will be able to settle at 5% or 10% when its going to be on your credit record for another 4 years.
If you can go back to a very well paid job, well your debts aren’t enormous, just settle them then.”
It seems folly to settle these debts for large amounts if you have no job.
Just forget about a mortgage until your employment is back and well established. All the while the defaults are getting older… in a year or two you should be able to setle them for less than you can now.
Or just leave them be and start saving when you are back to a good job. the money you would have spent on clearing these debts is the start of a good deposit. Then in 4 years time yoru credit record will be fine you should be able to buy a whole house not with a bad credit mortgage. Rent to buy / shared ownership come with big disadvantage – a debt ridden life for a small overpriced house as you put it sounds all too common.
Rina says
Hello Sara,
Hope you can help. I currently have an active debt on my credit file that should have been defaulted in 2009/2010 prior to entering my DMP with CCCS/Stepchange. I have put in a request to NCO Europe/Capquest (currently managing debt) and they issued a final response stating they’re not responsible and referred me to NewDay formerly SAV Credit /Aqua (original creditor). I received a final response from NewDay refusing to uphold my complaint under statute of limitations and referring me to FOS which I have done.
As part of my request, I also requested a copy of the CCA (on 29th Jan 2020) and I am yet to receive a copy from NCO Europe/Capquest; they keep stating they are waiting for a copy from their client. Should I write to them requesting confirmation from them in writing that the CCA cannot be produced (more than 12 days) and the debt is unenforceable?
Can I request that the debt is written off on the basis that the debt is unenforceable? If the debt is written off, then the debt will show on my account as “settled” Or should I wait for the outcome of my complaint with FOS in regards to the default? If FOS rule in my favour and the default is backdated, it will be removed from my file completely. Is this a better outcome than a write off with ‘settled’ showing on my file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Should I write to them requesting confirmation from them in writing that the CCA cannot be produced (more than 12 days) and the debt is unenforceable?
I suggest you don’t “ask” instead you tell them as they haven’t produced the CCA agreement you assume the debt is unenforceable and tell them you won’t be making any more payments. And stop paying them.
Can I request that the debt is written off on the basis that the debt is unenforceable?
they won’t do this. You could instead offer a low amount in full & final settlement of the debt.
Hopefully your FOS complaint will get it removed from your record.
Rina says
I have just been on the phone to Capquest and they have said that all they can do is keep chasing their client. I can raise a complaint which will take 8 weeks for them to investigate and they will then issue their final response if they can’t resolve.
I want to stop making payments to Stepchange as this is the only debt left (all others have been confirmed unenforceable) but I’m concerned that if I do, Capquest will start recording missed/late payments on my file which will adversely affect it. Is this the case? Or is the debt on hold due to the complaint being investigated / them being unable to produce the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I want to stop making payments to Stepchange as this is the only debt left (all others have been confirmed unenforceable) but I’m concerned that if I do, Capquest will start recording missed/late payments on my file which will adversely affect it
That will happen even if Capquest agree the debt is unenforceable.
You need to get a default added to the debt by the original lender so it drops off your credit record.
paul says
hi , sara
i had an old credit card debt back before 2007 and stupidly back then even though i couldnt afford it i was phoned by link
they sent me a letter saying they now owned the debt from mbna ..
. if would offer to pay £5 a month which has been going on over 10 yrs now ..they recently last couple of yrs started saying it was a concessionary agrement of £5.00 a month and asked for expenditure forms to be filled in AGAIN WHICH I REFUSED..
they decided to cancel my direct debit but set up their own for same amount £ 5 a month saying i stil need to fil in expenditure forms but next year ..
. at that time i decided to ask for a cca request in december 2019 ,,
they ignored and then again i sent a letter in febuary 2020 which they ignored and recent emails ,,
finally may this year i decided to ask were my copy was ,
they then told me they got the request last december but could not get a copy of cca as it was too old from mbna.
. i then asked for a letter to confirm which i received this week ,, ,
i know even after all these years it was defaulted on my credit report now gone but if they decide to sell onto another debt purchaser am i liable or is it completly unenforceble like ive been told
many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If Link can’t get the CCA from MBNA it isn’t likely that anyone they sell the debt onto could get it either! I suggest you keep the letter from MBNA somewhere safe in case you ever need to produce it but apart from that regard this debt as having been dealt with.
paul hart says
the letter came from link saying cant get cca from mbna . but saying they can still collect as im still liable ,, and regarding the fact they took over 6 months to let me know they could not get it ,, and ive read this on another debt site help is this right thanks sara
timescales…
The Consumer Credit Act states that a creditor must send the agreement within 12 working days of receiving your request, otherwise they are in default. You should count the day of receipt as day zero, and not include weekends or bank holidays in your calculations.
If the default continues for a further month, the Act states that the Creditor commits an offence.
Should the creditor attempt to take further action after this time, it is recommended that you contact Trading Standards or Citizens Advice. You have six months from the date of the offence in which to report the breach.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if the CCA cannot be produced the debt still legally exists. They can ask you to pay it but they cannot go to court. And if they ask you to pay it, they must remind you in the same letter/email that the debt is currently unenforceable.
paul hart says
thnaks sara i cant upload a pic of letter ,, but this reply was what they said … on december 20th2019 mbna told them they couldnt provide a copy due to the age of the account … whilst this account is unenforceable we are still able to collect on the oustanding balance as you remain liable…… they cancelled my direct debit last november but set up their opwn for the said amouont £5.00
thnaks for your help sara this has been a noose over me for over 10 yrs for a 3,200 pound debt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They can ask you to pay the debt but if you refuse they cannot take you to court. If they are collecting a DD of £5 a month you can cancel it if you want – there is no reason why you should carry on paying.
Struggling.... says
Hi Sara, thanks for all this good advice that you are giving out.
Today I got rejected for an F&F IVA as I do not have a mortgage. Thought I would give it a try as I am currently on a DMP, been on one for 10 years. Heliodor purchased my unsecured loan from NRAM this year and they were the one that rejected it as they had the highest debt (£20K). I have access to some money from my pension pot which is what I used to make the offer. My question: Does it make sense to offer a settlement to Heliodor as they are the only one showing on my credit record? They may get more money as there is no IVA fees to pay the IP. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what are the other debts in your DMP?
how old are you?
what DMP payments are you making?
Struggling.... says
I’m 58 and husband is retired on state pension, 68. I recently was made redundant due to CV-19 but was on a zero-hour contract anyways.
The other debts (£15K) are old CC debts with the original lender, but has fallen off my credit report, but enforceable. DMP is £52 per month. We own our flat outright. thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My thoughts are that:
– this doesnt seem like a good point to take money out of your pension. Why not just carry on with the DMP?
– you should ask your DMP firm to suspend or reduce DMP payments until you get another job. DMP firms are being very sympathetic about this.
– when did you get into arrears with NRAM? I am wondering if you could get them to add a default earlier so it drops off. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
– you may think it makes sense to offer more to creditors who are on your credit record but it may upset the other creditors. You dont want them going for CCJs and then charging orders.
Struggling.... says
Thanks for your good advice Sara. I will follow it.
I did try to get default with NRAM, but they said no as they agreed to reduced payments/DMP. I will try again, maybe second time lucky? I went on DMP in 2011.
Struggling.... says
Hi Sara, you have been so helpful and I was wondering if you could comment on my letter to NRAM. I’ve put all the necessary facts, but wanted some wording for the reason to add a default date. Do you think this is okay? Thanks
“In accordance with ICO guidance NRAM should have defaulted us when the account was between 3 – 6 months into our DMP as we were no longer making the contractual payments. Not filing the default has meant the record will remain on our file (indefinitely as we are still on the DMP) which is longer than it would have done had we not paid the debt. Therefore, we are now disadvantaged compared to someone who chose not to pay their debt”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Looks OK!
Struggling.... says
Brilliant…thanks so much!
Darcey says
Hi Sara,
My mum passed away a few months ago and we are In the process of sorting through her finances. She had 3 credit cards which were taken out in the early 90’s. I believe the debt to be unenforceable for all 3 cards And have written confirmation of this for one account. As my brother has Probate, I am a little unsure of what we should do about the unenforceable account as We don’t want it to effect his credit record. Can it be defaulted against his name as he has Probate and is now responsible for her Estate? Could you suggest what the best thing would be do for the unenforceable debt?
Thank you so much
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can it be defaulted against his name as he has Probate and is now responsible for her Estate?
No.
I suggest he asks National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 what he as executor can do – is he entitled to ask for th4e CCA agreement for the credit card debts.
Darcey says
Thank you for your reply Sara,
We have now received correspondence from 2 of the 3 creditors in response to CCA requests and both are said to be unenforceable.
I was most concerned about the debt defaulting in his name so thank you for your reassurance.
I will ask him to give National Debt Line a call to see where we stand.
Thanks again
Jan says
Hi Sara
Me and my husband have been paying a number of debts for around 8 years now and they have all dropped off our credit files. I have one CCJ which I know I need to keep paying but the others are arrangements with the debt collection agencies. We requested CCA’s back in March – 1 has come back to say they cannot provide it and that the debt is unenforceable, 2 haven’t come back with anything (so assuming they can’t get them) and one has sent an agreement but there are no dates on it (would this be right?) We have continued making payments over the last few months. Am I right in thinking we can just stop payments where CCA have not been provided without offering full and final settlement. I feel I have given them enough time now even with the current COVID situation. Over the years we have probably paid 50-75% of the original debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1 has come back to say they cannot provide it and that the debt is unenforceable – so you can stop paying
2 haven’t come back with anything (so assuming they can’t get them) – I suggest you stop paying and email them to say this and that you will restart if they produce the CCA agreement that you asked for on dd/mm/yy
1 has sent an agreement but there are no dates on it – see How can you tell if it’s right in here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#How_can_you_tell_if_it_is_right
Matilda says
I have an old overdraft that went to default in March 2018 with the bank account was also being closed. It was then passed on to a debt collection company in March 2018 too. Then at a later date, another company took over the running of the defaulted amount.
I have been paying £50 a month for a while now (although this was never an agreed amount, I just started paying it and they have been happy enough).
I have asked for a my credit agreement, but they have so far been unable to provided one – 20 days later.
I have now read, overdrafts don’t count?
What should I do?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What is the rest of your financial situation like?
Matilda says
Thank you for the reply.
I have one other default again overdraft and with the same bank other than that everything else is good. 2018 was a really bad year for us and that’s why these defaults happened.
I do have some other open accounts (store cards) but with low balance and all up to date.
We are in a position to be able to continue with the £50 or offer a settlement but it would be very low in comparison to the debt – 20%. -30% maybe.
My husband is still working full time. I have reduced my wage and become a Carer for my daughter. We also now also get disability benefit for her, caters allowance, plus extra benefits linked to this. I’m working less but our incoming money is more – although it’s linked to my daughters disability.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s quite recent for them to accept a low settlement offer but because of your daughter’s disability it may be worth a try.
But you had two overdrafts from the same bank? Were they large? Were they really affordable before your problems in 2018?
Sarah says
They were both very large (£5500 and £3500) and no we couldn’t afford them before then – we just lived in our overdrafts for years and then added to them because we couldn’t afford to live. It came to a huge standstill in 2018 because the charges went up and we just couldn’t keep up anymore.
I know it’s terrible financial responsibility, but we were struggling for a long time!
How much do you think they would accept?
They have sent a reply saying they haven’t got the original agreement yet (I now understand it’s not needed for an overdraft) and they aren’t looking to enforce the debt but want to make sure we have an affordable payment plan in place and to write to them if we feel it’s wrong.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are the £50 payment (is it one or two?) really affordable for you now? If it is, I suggest carrying on with that for a while. If you need it reduced, ask for a lower payment – the disability benefits are because of the costs for your daughter’s disability, not for paying your debts. it’s your choice if you want to use the money to clear debts but the bank will probably be understanding if you need to pay less.
I think you should also read https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ and think about making a complaint saying your overdraft limits were raised much too high without the bank checking they were affordable for you. Ask for the fees to be refunded on them.
Matilda says
I will have a read, thank you.
I do use disability pay for my daughter, but I do get benefits for myself because I care for her so use this to help pay for things.
I have today received a letter saying they are investigating my request and they will not be contacting me about any payments until they investigated and have an update for me. They said they need to contact the company they are working for so may take a while.
This is the same company that sent an email saying they will not be enforcing the debt but are looking for a affordable payment plan.
I’ve already paid around 18% of the original debt.
Matilda says
The debt is no longer with the bank and the bank have registered it as settled on my credit report – so guess that’s when they sold it on. It is now being managed by another company working on behalf of the company now holding the debt.
Kerri says
Please can I have some advice, I have a DMP with four outstanding debts,3 are nearly 10 years old and are not on my credit report. I am anxious about stopping paying but should I ask for a f & f?
I also have payday loans with lending stream (sold to Lantern) from 2017, this is causing issues with credit as registered as defaults. I have put an affordability complaint to them and believe I have a strong case As I have been granted some refund from sunny n awaiting from Wonga.
I have to move out and need to have a good credit rating, should I pay off the debt with lantern as this is causing the issue?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am anxious about stopping paying
have you asked for CCA and they can’t find them?
when did you send the Lending Stream complaint in?
Sandra C says
Hi I have requested credit agreement from pra and they have emailed me copy statements from barclaycard and no agreement – what should I do?
Please help me thank you Sandra
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See How can you tell if it is right? in https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/.
But if it is clearly not the credit agreement, go back to them and point this out.
Sue says
Sara,
Help and advice desperately needed yet aqain! I foolishly offered Robinson Way £1,000 as a F & F payment for a debt that goes back to before 2005. At the time, I was totally unaware about CCA’s, which I have since asked for, and have been told that they have asked the original lender for these.
My dilemma is this: They have given me until the 11th October 2020 to accept and arrange payment. Do I pay the £1,000 or: do I contact them again and tell them that I won’t pay anything until I receive the CCA’s. Ultimately, I am hoping (and praying) that as the debts are so old, that they may be unenforceable.
Your advice would be so, so appreciated. Thank You.
Sue.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You know the problem. With such old debts there is a serious chance that the CCA will not be produced. But it may be.
Sue says
Sara,
So sorry to be a pain, but would your advice be to write and tell them that no payment will be made until I receive the CCA’s. This whole situation is causing my anxiety to go through the roof, and I just don’t know what to do for the best. I have until 11th October to make a decision as far as paying the £1,000 but don’t know how long to wait for the CCA’s to materialise. I requested them on the 25th August.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t advise you what to do – you could talk to StepChange if you want more details and advice as they know more about your situation. Your options may be:
1) pay RW the £1000. Here the CCA agreement is irrelevant and you have sorted this debt out at a cost of £1000.
2) wait until RW reply on the CCA agreement. They may not do this before the 11 Oct deadline, so this may be stressful for you. Of course this deadline may be just a bluff and they may be happy to take the offer at the end of Oct. £1000 is a very generous offer on a debt of about £1500!
3) Get this debt included in your DMP now and wait and see what happens with the CCA. This removes a lot of the stress from you now.
– if RW can’t produce the CCA agreement – And this is quite likely! it’s not some rare chance you are hoping for – you can just tell StepChange to take the debt out of your DMP. And you could use the £1000 to settle some other debt!
– RW produce the CCA agreement. You can just let the DMP continue, it will be a very low stress route for you.
– RW produce the CCA agreement and you offer them £1000 to settle. At this point they know if they say No, you will just continue with the DMP so they may well decide to say Yes.
– RW produce the CCA agreement and say No to £10000. Here you can use the £1000 to settle some other debt.
Aleksandra says
Good day Sara
I have few debts that I’ve been struggling to pay off I over £20k. All of them are defaulted on my credit score over 4 years ago. I’ve been making £1 token payment for a past 2 years. I am about to make payment/ settlement agreement but prior to that I’m going to send them a request for CCA.
How long should I wait for their response? during the COVID do they get extra time to provide the necessary documents?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I normally suggest allowing a creditor a couple of months. If they haven’t been able to produce the CCA agreement in that time, you can consider stopping paying them.
Aleksandra says
What it’s going to happen after when I stop payments.
Can they still legally ask for their money after 8 weeks with no CCA being produce to me?
What are the steps I should take when CCA won’t be produce to me and I will stop the payment?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Once you have asked for the CCA agreement using the correct wording (I assume you used the template I linked to? And supplied £1?), if you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
So after 8 weeks if you stop paying, they can ask for the money – the debt still legally exists – but not go to court. If they ask you to pay, say you will not be paying until they produce a copy of the CCA.
Aleksandra says
Thank you,
So if they are unable to produce CCA and they start threatening me with court. How long shall I persist for CCA? And how can I clear this debt? When would be best to make them offer and how low can I go?
In 18 default will disappear from my credit records.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So if they are unable to produce CCA and they start threatening me with court.
This shouldn’t happen!
I suggest you just take things steadily and see what actually happens in practice, not worry about stuff that is very unlikely!
When would be best to make them offer and how low can I go?
If they can’t produce the CCA I suggest you stop paying for a few months then make them an offer if you really want. But you don’t have to do this, you can simply stop paying. This will mean there is more money to settle the debts where the CCA can be produced.
If they produce the CCA then how much you should offer depends on a lot of things. But you want to wait until you have worked out which of your creditors can produce the CCA so you can divide the available money ebtween them
In 18 default will disappear from my credit records.
do you mean in 18 months?
Aleksandra says
Thank you for your advise.
That’s very helpful.
Just to clarify. What will happen with debts that CCA cannot be produce to me and I will stop payments? Bare in mind they have been defaulted over 4 years ago. Would I ever have to pay them? Would it affect my future (5/6 years from now) mortgage or credit application?
Aleksandra says
In 18 months all defaults will disappear from my records.
Agnus says
Dear Sara,
In 2008 I was mis-sold a loan ( Barclays loan) over £12500 and I had a barclaycard £2900. I got redundant in 2009 and I couldn’t afford paying anything… I wrote to Ombudsmen regarding missed loan and it was agreed to pay symbolic amounts towards that loan and credit card. I can’t remember if Barclays defaulted both debts because they were sold very quickly to Robinson Way. I keep paying symbolic £10 into Barclaycard and £5 to loan. It seems it will never be paid off as it would take me 200 years. Recently I found out that Robinson Way returned the loan debt (£12500) to Barclays again. I called Barclays to settle new standing order because I don’t want to go into any arrears or troubles?… I would like to get a mortgage with my finance but I’m scarred that Barclays can let lenders know about that old debt. I never asked for CCA as I never knew anything about something like that? These debts from 2008 shouldn’t be existing by now. They are off my credit file. What can I do about these two old debts? Please help…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What a shame you did not go bankrupt back in 2009.
It doesn’t matter that they are off your credit record, any mortgage lender will still see the £1 a months you have been paying on your bank statements and know you have old unsettled debts.
If you stop paying they may go for a CCJ.
You can ask for the CCA agreements but as Barclays has never sold the debt – Robinson Way will just have been collecting on behalf of Barclays – this is much less likely to work.
One option may be for your parter to offer a settlement amount for the debts?
Agnus says
Thank you for getting back to me.
The loan was sold many years ago to RW and now a few months ago RW return the whole debt (loan) to Barclays back again. RW just kept the credit card debt.
I’m paying these off from a different bank account not from my current account, would that make a difference?
I thought it was kind of settled via ombudsmen to pay the agreed amount, or am I being wrong? I’ve got a question if I offer any amount of money to settle both debts would Barclays and Robins Way accept it?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“I’m paying these off from a different bank account not from my current account, would that make a difference?”
No, you will need to show statements for all your accounts on a mortgage application.
“I thought it was kind of settled via ombudsmen to pay the agreed amount, or am I being wrong? “
Well I don’t know the exact wording of what the Ombudsman said, but not normally, no, settled means having the balance owed set to zero.
“i’ve got a question if I offer any amount of money to settle both debts would Barclays and Robins Way accept it?”
Possibly, it depends what you offer. You may be asked to provide information about your income and expenses. It may be better if the offer comes from your partner not from you. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/
Agnus says
Thank you for your reply.
I am on maternity leave at the moment ( I only receive SMP).
My mum kindly offered £5000 lump sump to pay towards that whole debt. The loan is £12600 and Barclaycard £2900. Is it sensible to offer £4000 for the loan, £1000 for the credit card?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds OK, even generous. But it’s always hard to predict settlement offers and I have no idea what is going on here.
Lucy Smith says
Hello,
I had a Halifax Mastercard which defaulted in June 2017 with a balance of £1,099.83.
It was passed to Hoist.
In January 2020, I decided to write to Hoist with a CCA request.
In April 2020, Robinson Way wrote to me on Hoist’s behalf saying they’d been unable to provide the CCA so they’d marked the account unenforceable.
Robinson Way have been calling my landline every weekday since January 2020 but I haven’t ever answered.
In September 2020, my husband, who never answers the landline, picked up their call, taking their message for me to call them back.
This prompted me to write a complaint to them saying that if the account is unenforceable, they should not be contacting me but if they need to they may do so via email only.
On 3rd October 2020, they wrote to me stating they “will continue to actively pursue collection of the outstanding balance” including writing to me and contacting my by phone.
They also sent a reconsituted copy of the agreement which has my name and address on it and ticked box for signature with date of signature.
I find their response extremely rude especially after my request.
What/how do I respond to them because although they have not contacted me again in any way, I don’t think it’s right they contact me at all?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So are they saying it is now enforceable as they have sent you the CCA agreement?
Lucy Smith says
Thank you for your prompt response.
I can’t believe I left that bit out in my post as it’s such an important point! Can tell you’re an expert as you thought to ask immediately :)
They are saying it’s still unenforceable –
“We’d like to remind that whilst this debt is currently unenforceable, it remains outstanding and we will actively continue to pursue collection of the outstanding balance.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They are allowed to contact you about a debt that is unenforceable and ask you to pay, however each time they must remind you that the debt is unenforceable.
The simple approach is to ignore letters and if you pick up the phone by accident, just say – as the debt in unenforceable I will not be paying. They will get tired of wasting their time after a while.
Lucy Smith says
Thank you for clarifying. Will do just as you say and hopefully they’ll never be in touch again!
Dave says
Hi i have a cca request wasnt dealt with correctly. They took longer than 30days and only supplied some half cooked statements. What should i do now? The debt has 7months left until the 6yrs and it will drop off. Though i would like to settle it some how to show its gone. Can you help with what to do now and how to get pra to confirm its unenforceable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It doesn’t matter how long they took, the question is, did they supply an accurate CCA? If you aren’t sure if they have, read the How can you tell if it is right? section here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/.
Shez says
Hi Sara, I have a debt that is unenforceable and keep getting letters and phone calls from Link that do not state this. I have written to Link on several occasions asking them to only contact me only by letter and they need to state that the debt is unenforceable. The latest letter which I received a few days ago says “…although we are entitled to immediate payment of £xxx, we write now to give you the opportunity to clear this debt by monthly instalments of £xxx per month by way of direct debit….” A DD mandate was included.
There was no mention of debt being unenforceable.
I have put in a complaint to the FCO but auto response said that this could take weeks due to the pandemic.
Any suggestions of what I could do next? Should I write to Link saying I’ve made a complaint to the FCO?
Thanks for all your advice Sara!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the FCO the Financial Ombudsman?
Shez says
oh yes, sorry…it is the Financial Ombudsman.
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you just sit back and ignore the letters and calls.
Unless you get one that threatens court action, just shrug.
FOS will get round to your case but it’s not urgent, is it?
Shez says
Hi Sara
I’ve read it again, it is a demand for payment, but no legal or court action, so I will wait.
Thanks as usual for your good advice.
Keep Safe!
Shez
Thomas says
Hi Sara.
While having a clear-out, I stupidly shredded all my CCAs which my creditors sent to me on request a few years ago. Do you know if there’ll be a problem re-requesting them, or could the creditors decline because they’ve been sent to me in the past already? And if they don’t provide them this time round, could they still enforce a CCJ due to providing them a few years ago? Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you asked for the CCAs before and they provided them, there isn’t much point in asking again unless the debt has been sold to a new debt collector.
Helen G says
Hello Debtcamel
There is conflicting information online about whether a debt is enforceable when a CCA is not provided when requested. Views seem to vary between solicitors whom seemingly summarise case law and others e.g. Debtcamel who appear to say if the agreement is not provided you do not have to make any further payments after a suitable period has lapsed.
In my case I have been in a DMP for over 10 years and have made monthly payments without any missed months during the whole term. Since about July 2020 I have approached all of my creditors and outlined my current position. I am well into retirement age, health not at its best and limited funds. As a result of contacting the companies whom bought the debt I have settled by value about 66% which has been cleared on a F & F basis at about 10%. Hurrah!!!!! However two companies have not accepted my proposals and are looking for a further 25% or 50% to settle.
So my question quite simply is should I ask for a CCA for these accounts which go back pre 2000 on the basis it might give me some leverage to settle at 10% or maybe less? Or given case law summarised by solicitors online am I wasting my time. Let me be clear I do not want to just stop paying if CCA’s can’t be found but just try to create a situation where the remaining two companies come to the party on a reasonable settlement basis.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am not sure where you are reading this conflicting information.
The National Debtline factsheet is clear that a debt is not enforceable if a true copy of the CCA cannot be produced: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/credit-agreements-getting-information-ew/
The FCA, who regulates lenders and debt collectors, rules in CONC 13 also say this: https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/?view=chapter
A creditor does not have to accept a low F&F offer from you if they cannot produce a CCA agreement, but if they refuse to, you can stop paying.
Helen G says
Hi Sarah
Many thanks for your prompt response. Given the factsheet you refer to I will ask for a copy of the agreements and go from there.
I will update this forum as matters proceed.
Helen G
Jan says
Hi Sarah,
I have 4 debts currently
£12500 with barclaycard – credit card
£600 with natwest – overdraft standard account
£2000 with natwest – overdraft on student account
£4500 with student finance England (an overpayment from them not the standard student loan, requires immediate repayment)
To give some back story my Barclaycard credit account was opened in 2013 and defaulted 1.5 years ago, they are still owned by barclaycard
My 2 natwest accounts are around 5 years old and defaulted 1.5 years ago and are now owned by a debt collection agency
Q
Student finance was around 4-5 years ago and isn’t defaulted but student finance is weird when it comes to resolving the debt (which I can’t quite get my head around)
Currently paying £1 to each debt via stepchange token payment plan, I’ve been on this for around a year.
My question is how would you go around resolving these debts as cheaply as possible?
My credit score is already tanked so I’d just leave the debt, but no ccjs have been filed so my 6 years of bad credit could turn into 12 at worst if a ccj is filed just before my default drops off as far as I understand.
I can come up with some money to offer first and finals but I don’t know what to offer, so any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These are pretty recent defaults. I suggest making token payments for another year.
I don’t know what the student finance debt is – you could talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this and whether they would be likely to accept a settlement offer.
Sean says
Hi Sara,
Your service has been invaluable and made a big difference so thank you.
One remaining query – I requested the CCA as per debt helpline template from PRA and they marked 2 as enforceable and one explicitly not.
I agreed a (hefty) settlement offer thanks to a family member for the 2 enforceable amounts.
PRA followed up on the unenforceable debt providing this time only an undated Credit Card Agreement titled ‘BASE’ at the top and ‘Restricted – Internal’ at the bottom without mention of my contact details nor account details and have resumed calling me.
Is there any final demand letter I can send them to cease further correspondence or is there another course of action you might recommend?
I’m happy to maintain contact with them if needs be but want to make it clear I do not acknowledge the debt (as enforceable) and will maintain contact in writing only.
Is there any course of action you might advise?
Kind regards,
Sean
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Sean, see my reply to someone else today with a similar query: https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/comment-page-3/#comment-405573
Helen G says
Hi Sarah
Having requested a CCA from a debt management company I received a reply dated 12 days on from my request but the reply took 8 days via Royal Mail to arrive on my doormat. A back dated better maybe? The reply basically stated a further 8 weeks were required to source the agreement. It is now just over 6 weeks from my original request and the CCA has yet to be received.
I would be interested to hear your views on the above please.
Many thanks
Helen G
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I always suggest waiting a couple of months before asking the creditor to confirm they can’t produce the CCA.
Vera says
I am so glad I have found this site, so much useful advice on here, wish I had found it years ago.
Just wondered what your thoughts were on my situation. I have 4 debts, all with debt management companies, which I have had for over 10 years.
Unfortunately, I did not know about the Statute Barred, so none of these debts are because I have had arrangements in place to pay £1 a month.
The debts are with Hoist Finance (Bank of Scotland Credit card ) Link Financial (Barclaycard credit card) Cabot (Northern Rock unsecured loan) and Lowell (Shop direct Very mail order account) I have checked all 3 credit file companies & the only one showing is Lowell. All of these debts have been passed on several times, so I am hoping they cannot provide CCA, which I have now requested. The Link debt, I cancelled the £1 direct debit by mistake last year but have not heard anything from them. Would you advise to wait to see if CCA produced and take it from there ? Just wondering if anyone else has experience of these companies. Many thanks
Helen G says
Hi Sarah
Thanks for the ongoing updates…. much appreciated.
Having requested a CCA in December 2020 and if it is not provided after a suitable time frame should I just cancel the monthly DD from say April 2021?
Historically I have followed good practice and kept in touch as and when required so maybe a polite letter of DD cancellation to the company whom own the debt? If a letter is appropriate does Debt Camel have any suggestions on wording?
Thanks
Helen G
Sara (Debt Camel) says
April sounds a good time to cancel payments.
Just tell them you have asked for the CCA on dd/mm/yy and they have not supplied it so the debt is unenforceable. Say if they produce the CCA later you will resume payments (this is VERY rare!)
Helen G says
Hi Sarah
Having written as above I have now received a letter saying the matter is being referred to the “Complaints” department. I am wondering if a ‘phone call might be appropriate at this time or just wait for contact from the complaints team and see what their proposals, if any, might be?
Helen G
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest waiting. Not sure what you would gain by phoning, you really want their reply in writing.
Helen G says
Hi Sarah
An update!
My letter dated April 2021 to confirm the CCA had not been provided resulted in my file being sent to the Dispute and Resolutions section. The response acknowledges the debt is unenforceable given the CCA cannot be provided but the file will be returned to the collections department as “the debt remains collectable and it is reasonable to continue to request payment”. There is also a request to contact the office by telephone to set up a payment plan perhaps because I cancelled my DD following the April payment.
I would like to try and close this matter down so any thoughts you may have would be appreciated.
Many thanks
Helen G
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can now offer a low settlement if you want. You cannot make the debt collector accept it and often they will refuse, even though to you it looks obvious that they should accept. There is no point in being stressed by this – think of it as a game – you now know the rules so they cannot bully you into offering a larger settlement or making monthly payments.
Or you can simply say you will not be making any further payments.
Ashleigh says
Hi,
Capital one have agreed to Partially settle a debt for my loss of job with corona etc and the fact that minimum payments will take me 31 years to clear £1500.
Can you advise. How this will effect my Credit file? I have not missed a payment etc it’s just I’m struggling to pay the amount and the debt is persistent. I just want to know how this will effect my mortgage chances in 3 years time? I already have a mortgage
Thanks
Sarah says
Hi, I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. We entered a DMP with Payplan 10 years ago next month – CC and personal loans. We were just about to offer partial settlement when I came across your site. All debts have dropped off our credit files and we hope to move house therefore increase our mortgage etc in the next couple of years. We pay a now affordable £60 per month and I am concerned that if we request CCAs we will rock the boat so to speak. Could we in theory carry on paying the £60 until the debt is settled but still change mortgage, avail of car finance etc or will the old creditors be alerted to activity on our credit file? Apart from mobile phones and insurance we have had no credit in those 10 years as I was under the impression that the debts stayed on your credit file for 6 years after settling rather than after defaulting. I’m so torn as with the age of the debts I’m sure there is a good chance that the CCAs (or some of them) would be difficult to locate but equally the idea of going back to threats of CCJ’s etc to be honest terrifies me. Basically wondering if we could continue to live and progress financially in life (in terms of savings, mortgages, investments) while paying the £60 monthly. Thanks
chris says
Hi
I have an old debt that i am not paying off via a DMP. Regarding the 6 years from default: following my first default I got back on track and started paying as per the original agreement. I then later went into default and ended up on the DMP. Would the 6 years apply from the first default date?
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What default date shows on your credit records? Don’t guess, look at all three credit reference agencies and check the exact date.
Andy says
Hi I am wondering if you can help me.
I am on DMP (will be on it for another 10 years or so) all accounts defaulted. I approached Interum (old tesco account) for CCA in Jan. I dont think they can produce it, and Stepchange have now put it on six week hold (no payments being made during this time) after the six weeks, if they dont produce the CCA stepchange have said they will remove the charge from my DMP. Interum are aware no payments are now being made. I realise if they cannot produce CCA i can simply continue not to pay anything, or try FF. If I do not pay anything will they mark on my credit file missed payments, the default still has about 3 years to run. If i paid them a pound a month even without the CCA being shown would this stop missed payments being recorded on my credit file by them? Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Once a debt is marked as defaulted on your credit record, it will stay as defaulted until it drops off after 6 years.
Do you think a default date 3 years ago is correct? Or should it have been longer ago?
Andy says
Its correct. Stepchange have now taken the account off my DMP and no payments are being made. I am hoping that maybe in a month or two interum will contact me again and I can arrange to pay them 5% or so to partial settle. Its for around 4k so i dont know if they will do this, but i guess its take that or pay nothing. I imagine if I dont pay anything they will likely just sell it on to the next debt collector to try again.
Jonny says
Great info Sara! We are in DMP with PayPlan from 2010 with debts of £57k, mainly credit cards and a couple of overdrafts/loans. We pay £150 a month. We’ve paid back £20k, outstanding debt is £46k (est. comp. 2047)
I had a cardiac arrest last May and spent 4 days on life support and am fortunate to be here, and struggling with work now. I work for myself and income has considerably reduced. Our families have been helping to keep us afloat since.
We may have access to funds from family to settle, approx. 20% of the £46k. The DMP surplus needs to be around £25 to pay the CCJ (£14) and £1 to each other creditor. Biggest creditors appear to have been sold on:
Egg CC > PRA
MBNA CC > Paragon
Santander Loan > Wescot (being collected, not sold?)
None of the debts are showing on the three main credit sites. Have they defaulted and dropped off?
Should I request CCA’s from all creditors apart from overdrafts (£4k), and Capital One (£5k) as they have never sold the debt. Then, if there are unenforceable debts, see what I can offer remaining creditors. I really need to end the DMP as we have so much uncertainty re: work, income etc.
Are creditors likely to accept a low offer based on new circumstances? If they don’t, what affect will dropping their pro-rata payment down to £1 have? Should I reduce it before CCA requests or settlement offer so that they know I can’t pay £150?
Many thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I had a cardiac arrest last May and spent 4 days on life support and am fortunate to be here, and struggling with work now. I work for myself and income has considerably reduced. Our families have been helping to keep us afloat since.
So sorry to hear that. This seems like a good point to try to get a final resolution on as much as possible of your debts.
None of the debts are showing on the three main credit sites. Have they defaulted and dropped off?
It sounds like it :)
The CCJ – which of these debts was it? Because you cannot ask for the CCA for a debt where there alr3eady is a CCJ.
Is it right that without help from your family you would be unable to pay more than £1 a month to your debts?
Is Payplan aware of your health problems? How much are you currently paying to the DMP?
LA says
Thanks Sara! I’m fortunate to be here to able to sit reading all the great info on your site to try and sort things out :)
The CCJ was just over £3k so we need to keep on paying the £14 per month. I won’t ask for the CCA on that.
Without help we would reduce it to £25 a month. This would cover the £14 for the CCJ via PayPlan, plus £1 payment for other creditors – it’s not going to have any impact unfortunately.
PayPlan are aware of my health issues but advised me to offer 75% which is not feasible. This is why I’m looking to try and reduce the debt, to allow a better % to be offered.
I’m not sure what order to do 1 and 2 in:
1) request CCA’s – not the CCJ, not the 2 overdrafts and not the Capital One debt
2) reduce the surplus at PayPlan to £25,
3) offer a settlement figure
I don’t want to do anything to encourage further CCJ’s (Is this still possible?), but I want to try and manage things in the short term – I realise I need to wait for 3 months to offer settlements once I have a clearer picture re: CCA’s- if it means being supported for 3 more months to maintain the £150 that’s OK.
My wife has been working as a cleaner so her income has suffered during COVID and because she has had to look after me.
I’m hoping that we can reduce everything so that if I can access around £8-10k it could settle the outstanding amounts.
Thanks again Sara, much appreciated!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I ask if you are buying or renting?
LA says
No problem, buying – got 5yrs left to pay on our mortgage but can’t borrow anything against the house to use to clear this due to our financial history :(
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, well as a plan now – and you can always change this as you go along – I suggest you do 1 & 2 at the same time. It can take a while to sort out whether the CCAs can be produced – you may get a few letters back quickly, others may take several months. As you can’t afford the payment, it is best to reduce them to what you can afford, not borrow more from family. And cutting the payments now will make it clearer to the creditors that when you make a settlement offer, they shoudl know if they reject it, they will only be getting a token payments in future.
Payplan may not be happy with reducing the amount paid that much. In which case you tell Payplan you are ending your DMP and you tell each creditor (except the CCJ) that you can only afford a token £1 payment. Payplan are no help when it comes to making settlement offers so ending the DMP now is probably a good move anyway.
One other thing – because of the age of your debts and your health condition and the fact you are never likely to be able to get back to full time work, it may be worth asking creditors who can produce the CCA to write off the debt. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/.