A reader asked:
I have a Debt Management Plan where I still owe 17k to 10 creditors. I have been paying for ten years at £150 a month, so it will end in about 8 years. Most of the debts have gone from my credit record but a few are marked as “on a DMP”.
I want to pay off the debts and improve my credit rating. I have been offered about 7k by a relative, so I could offer all my DMP creditors around 40%. How would settlements affect my credit rating? Is it worth me finding out if the debts are actually enforceable?
It’s a great idea to try to end a long-running Debt Management Plan (DMP).
I have already looked at offering settlements where the DMP had only been running a few years. And this Guide to F&Fs looks at the how to make a good full and final settlement offer to a creditor.
But this reader’s case is different:
- older debts have different options as it may be that the debts are unenforceable;
- there is the added complication of the different way his DMP is showing on his credit record.
Are the debts enforceable?
It’s best to do this before you offer a settlement.
For credit cards, catalogues and most loans, the debt collector has to be able to supply you with a copy of your Consumer Credit Act agreement if you ask for it. See How to ask for a CCA agreement, which looks at how to do this and when you should do it. It doesn’t apply to overdrafts, utility or mobile bills.
How likely is this to work?
This reader’s accounts are at least ten years old. It is likely that at least some of his current creditors may be unable to produce the CCA agreement:
- the older a debt is the less likely it is that it can be found;
- it is also harder to find if the debt has been sold to a debt collector, who usually has to ask the original creditor for it.
If it can’t be found
If the creditor can’t produce the CCA agreement for your debt, it is unenforceable.
I would allow the debt collector a couple of months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it. Three if you are feeling nervous.
The debt is still legal, it stays on your credit record and the creditor can ask you to pay it … but they can’t make you by taking you to court. The regulator says they have to explain this to you – they aren’t allowed to pretend you do have to pay it.
In this case you can simply stop paying the debt – or tell your DMP firm to stop paying it, explaining why.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found in in the first few months the chances of it turning up later seem very low! To prevent that being a problem, and to stop the odd polite letter, you may decide to offer them a really low settlement amount, say 5%.
This is why it’s worth asking for the CCA agreement before making a good settlement offer. By clearing out of the way any unenforceable debts you will have more money left to settle the others.
When the CCA agreement is produced
If you aren’t sure that what you have been sent is a proper CCA, read “How can you tell if it’s right” in the main article on CCAs.
If the creditor produces the CCA agreement, then the reader can just make the full and final settlement offer of 40% that was planned. That is a very good offer for a debt that old if only low payments are being made. He can help ensure the offer is accepted by:
- explaining that the money is coming from a relative if it will help to settle the debt; and
- enclosing an income and expenditure statement showing that he can’t afford to increase his monthly payment.
The only downside to asking for a CCA agreement is that if the creditor finds it, they may then decide to go to court for a CCJ. But that would be pretty unusual if you are making them a good settlement offer!
Effect on your credit score
Settling debts doesn’t improve your credit rating. People often don’t believe that, it sounds so odd. In practice settling the debts makes some lenders much more likely to give you more credit and it’s vital if you want a mortgage in the next few years. But that headline credit score number will not change.
Where a debt already has a default date, it is going to disappear 6 years after that date and making a full and final settlement offer won’t change that. In this readers case the debts have already gone – they will not reappear.
For debts with an arrangement to pay marker and no default date, settling the debts will mean they drop off 6 years after the settlement.
It is a pity all the debts weren’t defaulted originally – the reader should ask the original creditor (not the current debt collector that owns the debt) to add a default to the record back before it was sold.
If that is done – and some creditors do agree easily – that will remove the debt sooner and improve the credit rating. But do this after asking for the CCA agreement and sorting out the F&Fs – it’s too complicated to try to do this all at once.
Do F&Fs make it harder to get a mortgage?
How does a DMP affect your credit score?
Do I have to pay a debt not on my credit file?
jones says
Getting settlement agreements is a nightmare as (in my experience) one company simply blames the other company for delays. My situation was further confusing as I was in the middle of a battle with the financial ombudsman about correctly getting defaults backdated or even applied in the first place so I could not stop paying those creditors at that point…….But yes – if all the creditors have defaulted you (and ideally dropped off) by all means stop paying and ask for full and final……It does get slightly messy though.
Jane says
All defaulted and off my credit file. When you say it gets messy, how do you mean?
Jones says
Messy as with multiple creditors, the ombudsman is involved with default issues, quite threatening letters off creditors, payplan wanting to know what’s happened to your repayments etc…. This was my experience. So I quickly nipped it in the bud by repaying the lowest full and final to the ones who did supply the original contract and the ones who were still fighting the default dates, ignoring the ones who couldn’t supply contracts and had defaulted and then closing the DMP and quickly buggering off to Bali for a month to hide lol….. No nasty letters on my return too
PM says
Spoke to PayPlan who I had already contacted re settling DMP.They have asked me to call my creditors to ask if they are still reporting on my credit file,have defaulted me & when or when they will stop.I have to offer them 25% .I asked about getting CCA first as some of loans might not able to be upheld.Payplsn strongly advised against asking for CCA first.They said to only ask for that if the creditors refuse offer….want to get this DMP done with asap but not sure what’s best to do !? Any advice please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is strange and unhelpful advice from Payplan. Why settle an unenforceable debt which is of your credit record for 25%? You want to settle those debts as cheaply as possible or simply stop paying them if they off your credit file already or soon to go. That way you will have more money if the debts where there is a CCA won’t accept 25%.
It is a good idea to check your credit records so you know exactly what they say now. But don’t ask your creditors this, do it your self as it’s faster and you don’t want to have to start a conversation with loads of creditors to find out the facts. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/
Then send out the CCA requests to loans, credit cards, catalogues. Not overdrafts or odd debts such as utilities that are in your DMP. You can offer the odd ones 25% now if you want, but for the rest, wait until you get the CCA. If they haven’t produced it in 2 months, tell payplan you want to stop paying them. Then offer them a settlement a couple of months later.
Yes this takes some time. But it may save you a lot of money. And you can’t be sure that all your creditrors will accept 25%…
PM says
Hi Sara So I checked my Credit file & only two of the debts are still on it.One will come off soon due to Ombudsman settlement (thanks).The other one is for £3900 credit card.
Should I just ask all for the CCA? I’m terrified something adverse goes back on my credit report? I’m desperately trying to cc lose my DMP, improve my very poor credit beating do I can get a mortgage.
Thanks
PM says
I settled 3 loans with NCO at 25% of total.No hassle at all .Barclaycard wanted 50% to settle so I have asked for CCA.Westcot for HSBC even worse…said no & wanted to take take me through a financial affordability questionnaire!! This is for a debt not on my credit report! Said no & send me the CCA.Payplan have asked me to offer 25% first but the attitude of these two companies makes me determined not to pay anything.What happens if they both come back with a CCA ? Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they come back with the CCAs then you need to carry on with your DMP or make a settlement offer that they will accept.
PM says
Thank you Sara.
Gary Edwards says
I’m surprised if Payplan said offer them 25%. When I tried to discuss full and final settlements with Payplan they informed me that creditors would be expecting settlements around 75%. Needless to say I decided to enter negotiations for full and final settlements myself and settled some of my debts at 35%. where the creditor had not sold the debt on. I settled with Barclays and Capital One, John Lewis were inflexible and the whole process of making claims with them was difficult due to their offer procedures.
I wrote to John Lewis to produce the cca back in September and despite several phone calls and broken promises on their part, they haven’t produced the cca or even acknowledged the request in writing. I’ve now written to John Lewis telling them that I am classing the debt as unenforceable and will not be paying them any more payments unless they can produce the cca. Luckily this debt is not on my credit file anymore.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds a good plan. If they ever produce the CCA you can then make an offer.
People get too hung up on getting offers agreed – if they can’t find the CCA and the debt isn’t on your credit record, just stop paying!
Gary Edwards says
I have two debts with Link Financial who bought the debts from Barclaycard. I have read many times including from discussions with Payplan that Link Financial are difficult to deal with. I have taken a different approach with Link Financial as these debts are still on my credit file. I wrote to them asking them to produce copies of the cca’s which they came back and advised they were unable to do. I am now fighting to get the default date changed on my credit file with the aim of having these debts fall off my credit file as they would be over 6 years old. I have not stopped paying these debts yet so defaults to appear on my credit file. It seems to be a common issue with Barclaycard that when they sell on debts they have not entered the credit default date on the credit file even when they have previously issued a written default notice. Link Financial then purchase the debt and start the default date as the date that they purchased the debt. Hopefully this month I will have confirmation that these debts have disappeared from my credit file after Barclaycard Complaints department agreed to amend the default date after I raised a complaint via Resolver. However to get this stage has been a battle with Link Financial and Barclaycard initially blaming each other for who was responsible for correcting the incorrect default date and Barclaycard Payments Solutions Team giving conflicting advice depending on which day of the week it was.
gareth says
I have an ongoing issue with Barclaycard and Link which never seems to end. Basically I got Barclaycard to change the default date to 2012 and they even sent me an £80 cheque to apologise. Annoyingly though, the default date has not been updated on 2 credit agencies but Experian still showing 2015 (but the others have updated it correctly).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
tell Barclaycard that unless the Experian record is corrected within a month you are sending the case to the Financial Ombudsman and asking for extra compensation.
Ange says
Hi my debt is 10 years old, I have been paying £10 per month for all of those ten years. Cabot was recently threatening a CCJ but I applied for the CCA documents back in November and they have now confirmed that they cannot get the information from the original lender and that my account is unenforceable. I think the original debt was around £2700 and is now £2000. The debt is no longer on my credit file and I really want to get rid of this debt/correspondence from this company. Should I stop paying? If I offer them a settlement offer I could only afford around £50. Many thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you stop paying – what are they going to do? They have said the debt is unenforceable. It can never reappear on your credit record. Save your £50 for something more useful!
Ange says
Thank you Sara, I was just worried that they might try to continue to pursue me for the debt, I would rather not pay the £50 if I don’t have to.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They can send you the odd letter saying the debt legally exists and you should make a payment arrangement, but each letter/email should also say that the debt is unenforceable. Come back here if you do have problems, most people don’t.
Ange says
Great, thank you. I have cancelled the direct debit and will let you know :)
Sarah says
I spoke to Hoist or Robinson Way what ever they call themselves about a debt that was sold to them through HSBC it was a loan. They admitted on the phone that they didn’t have a CCA and couldn’t get one. I emailed them to get this in writing and i received an email to day with them saying the CCA is excluded from the consumer act under section 5 so don’t have to produce one. Is this true? As an aside they said on the phone that it was an overdraft. Which it wasn’t. It was definitely a loan for £2000. I have never been given that size an overdraft.
Any thoughts/help please :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If it was an overdraft, there is no CCA to be produced. I suggest you reply to them that this was a loan, not an overdraft. Do you have any old letter from HSBC refering to the loan? How does this show on your credit record?
Jane says
Feel deflated. Have a debt with Cabot relating to an old mint card. Cabot confirmed in writing that they couldn’t locate the CCA therefore debt unenforceable 4 months ago. Plucked up courage to call them and offer full and final only to be told they’ve now got the paperwork and debt is now enforceable so wouldn’t accept my offer. (20%). I’ve asked them to send the CCA to me to Check and they are but now thinking bit of a coincidence they’ve now found it? Would they actually fun that they have it to get me to increase my f&f?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s unusual for a CCA to turn up late, but see what they send you. If you aren’t sure that is a real CCA, then see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ which has a section entitled How can you tell if it is right?
PS if they cant find the CCA then 20% is a very high amount to offer them!
Brian says
Hi – I had a Barclaycard account which defaulted in June 2014. The debt was sold to Link Financial later that year and I have been making a smallish agreed payment to them monthly. The balance is now around 5k and if I maintain my current payment it will take around 30 years to repay…
Wondered if anyone could give me any advice as to how to proceed after June this year when the debt and default fall off of my records. I want them off my radar asap tbh but am realistic in realising that I can’t just stop paying and risk a CCJ.
I have previously made to f+f offers of around 40% which they rejected – the figures they came back with were about 75% of the debt. After the default goes are they more or less likely to accept a low f+f ?
Any advice gratefully received
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The credit record isn’t really relevant to them. Do you have other problem debts to or this the only one?
Brian says
I also have an Argos account in default since Jan 2015 which was sold to Lowell, but they have never been able to provide me with the signed agreement and have not contacted me since 2016. As far as I am concerned they have given up on that one.
I have worked hard to clear my other debts and barring these two I am virtually debt free for the first time in 35 years (mortgage aside). Its more about finally breaking free from debt rather than keeping on paying and paying on the Barclaycard debt for years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked Link for the CCA for the Barclaycard?
Brian says
No I haven’t. When would be the best time for me – before it after June this year ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it doesn’t make any difference. Either they have the CCA or they don’t.
Brian says
Ok thanks. I will send your pro forma letter with a cheque for £1 by signed for post and see what comes back. I assume that they will need to request the CCA from Barclaycard ?
I plan to continue making the agreed payments at this stage as from previous replies etc that seems the right thing to do ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I usually suggest carrying on making payments for a couple of months. After that you may decide to assume that don’t have it and can’t get it from Barclaycard. This isn’t a very old debt so they may able to produce it but it’s worth a try.
Brian says
ok thanks – if they do provide it I guess I’m stuck with it then and my options will be limited to either continuing to make monthly payments or hope to get a reduced settlement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
exactly.
Brian says
Ok – I’ll let you know how it goes.
Thanks for all your help.
Regards
Lisa says
Hi
I have two debts through Moorgroup and one with Link Financial. I wrote to both of them at the beginning of January enclosing £1 for each debt asking for the agreements. I havent heard anything from Link so chased this via an email. Moorgroup returned the £2 on the 8th January and said their client no longer asks for this contribution. They said that they had asked their client for the info (Arrow Global Ltd) but they had not yet heard back. I chased this last week and received an email today stating:
“We write to advise that we are still communicating with our client in respect of your raised query.
During these communications, follow-up action will be suspended on this account and we will endeavor to provide you with an appropriate response to your query as soon as possible.”
Should I stop paying?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I normally suggest you give 2 months before you stop paying. But it’s not scientific.
Lisa says
Great thank you for the advice I will see if they have anything after another month.
NIna says
hi i have a debt intrum currenly on a repayment plan of £1 a month, they recently offered a 70% discount off £1200 balance and was considering asking a family member.
However they have told me that a partical settlement wont show on my credit file as this came off a few months ago due to been over 6 years old but they only purchased this debt in 2019 but im not sure if from another debt collector or the company itself which was a tesco credit card, what do you suggest do i pay the reduced and settle or can i ask for a cca and try and stop all payments? thanks Nina
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“they have told me that a partial settlement wont show on my credit file”
that is correct. if it has dropped off your credit record, it will never reappear.
Would you have to repay this family member? I wouldn’t suggest you should get into debt with family – which can be quite stressful – when you are just paying £1 a month. better to just plod on, surely?
If you do want to settle it, asking for the CCA agreement can be sensible.
Rina says
Hello Sara,
I made a request to Idem in January for a copy of my CCA which they are unable to locate and confirmed this by letter on 12th Feb. I have a DMP through StepChange and made Feb payment to Idem and intend to make March but then want to stop and have funds reallocated to existing debts on the plan (while I wait for copies of the CCAs requested) I contacted StepChange to notify them and received their response: “While the debts are no longer enforceable they are still outstanding debts that need to be paid. With the debts being unenforceable it means the creditors can’t take legal action, the debt is still owed though. You should continue to make your payments towards your DMP.”
Where do I stand on this? I don’t want to stop paying if it will cause further problems for myself but would rather use the funds for other enforceable debts. I tried to make a 25% offer in F&F for this debt (£450) through StepChange but was advised it would unlikely be accepted as I only have 2.5 years left on the DMP.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that you want the debt removed from your DMP as this will assist you to repay your other debts that are enforceable sooner.
If they don’t agree, I suggest you say you will take over paying your creditors yourself. This is pretty easy for old DMPs. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/how-much-work-dmp/. And it puts you in control.
Hannah Jones says
Hi Sara
Hope you can help me . I have just been advised by Robinson way that they do not have the cca so the debt can’t be taken to court . I offered 5% to clear the balance but they have just written back to me saying that they want me to provide a list of all of my creditors and provide a list of outgoings , I only updated this in December. It’s all very stressful . I have still have one years left on this debt and I am trying to get a mortgage and would like the account settled. Any advice what I should say to them.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the debt showing on your credit record? Are you currently making any payments?
Hannah says
Hi Sara
Thanks for getting back to me. The balance is £750, I am paying £1 a month for the last year as at the start of last year I was made redundant, so stopped paying the £100. I am now back in full time work .I have offered £36 which is 5% . Yes it is still showing on credit report .
Thanks
Hannah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is there a default date on the record on your credit report? were you making normal payments up until the start of last year? and is this your only problem debt?
Andrew says
Hello Sara, hope you are keeping well during these difficult times!
I just wanted to ask: We (the wife and I) are in a joint DMP with Payplan since 2010. Now looking to bring our debt era to an end.
We have contacted our DCA’s with CCA requests, every single one of them (listed below) are unable to find a copy etc…. The letters were received last month..
idemservicing – “unable to find, can take whatever action I see appropriate but not releasing me from the agreement”
Cabot – “Unable to obtain and unenforceable, but please continue to pay via payplan”
PRA – “Account on hold, unable to find” and another one “unenforceable”
Moorcroft – “unable to locate documents”
NCO. – “account on hold, unable to locate”
I have received reconstituted for 2 accounts but they include no dates or signatures.
Payplan said this was unusual and advised me to contact the ombudsman, I did but no reply yet.
What should be my next step? All apart from PRA have come and gone plus 6 years.
1. wait a bit longer.. then stop paying.
2. Wait a bit longer then offer a 5% settlement F & F no credit file entries
Your expert advice is greatly appreciated. :)
Andrew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have received reconstituted for 2 accounts but they include no dates or signatures.
were these some of the debts you have listed above? which?
have all the debts dropped off your credit record?
Andrew says
Barclaycard (PRA) and Argos (Moorcroft) are reconstitutes.
Looking at my file PRA is 5 year ago and the only one left, however they all defaulted way before then with the original creditor so will try and get them to remove..
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you need to ask the original creditor to add a default date.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So are PRA and Moorcroft saying these debts are enforceable or not?
Andrew says
Sorry, yes both PRA and Moorcroft unenforceable also…
I see, so ask them to add the date back in 2011, then It will right itself…?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so for every debt, the debt collector has said in writing that it is unenforceable? is that right?
I don’t understand what you have asked the ombudsman about?
Andrew says
Yes, they have all said “unenforceable” or “we can’t enforce”.
I have received two reconstituted agreements but neither contain dates, my address or signature / signature tick box.
Payplan said I should contact the ombudsman as it seems odd that none of the dca’s have the agreements.
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
But what do you want the Ombudsman to say?
This doesn’t make sense, you have exactly the result you want, the debts are unenforceable. It’s common for old debts to be unenforceable, you got lucky that all yours are.
FOS will in any case not usually rule on whether a debt is enforceable or not.
Unless there is sone reason you haven’t mentioned, you may want to think about ending the FOS case.
Andrew says
FOS, I agree with you, I have only emailed them for advice but never heard back from.
It is really good news, what should my next step be with them?
Wait a couple of months then get Payplan to stop the payments?
Email / write to the dca etc… saying..
Thanks again.
Rena says
Hello Sara,
Hope you can help! I have 3 debts on my DMP with Stepchange that are managed by PRA Group (2 Egg, 1 Barclaycard) I’ve successfully got PRA Group to backdate default date on one to 2010 (& removed from my credit file) but still waiting for original copies of CCA for all 3 debts (Requested on 30/01/2020) I get a holding email every month “I refer to your dispute raised on 30 January 2020. We are currently awaiting further information to enable us to resolve the dispute. Be assured, the account continues to remain on hold during our investigation period.”
Just wanted advice on how much longer I should wait and/or next steps?
Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you give then until the end of the month. Then tell StepChange that you would like the debts removed from your DMP.
How many more debts are left in the DMP?
Rena says
Thanks Sara. These are the last 3 debts so will my DMP close if I inform Stepchange to remove the debts?
In relation to another debt (that Idem said was unenforceable) Stepchange told me that i should continue paying as the debt is still valid. I cancelled anyway. Is Stepchange correct in it’s advice?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes your DMP will close. If PRA pop up with the CCAs later, you can then make a payment arrangement direct with them.
StepChange are correct that debts still legally exist. Should you continue paying I see as an ethical question – it’s up to you if you want to but legally you do not have to.
Rena says
Thanks Sara.
As always, very helpful!
Andy says
Hi Sara,
Can I ask what a reconstituted CCA needs to have please?
I have one from Argos which looks like a typed letter. It doesn’t have any date or credit limit.
Another one from Barclaycard, which has an incorrect address and just a photocopy of the terms and conditions and no cca.
Thank you for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#How_can_you_tell_if_it_is_right
Hasan says
I have 2 defaults against 2 credit cards. Default is registered with PRA (£5k) and Robinson Way (£7k) in December 2018. The cards were originally taken out 8 and 10 years ago respectively over the phone. Ive been unable to pay anything yet. I have cooperated with the agencies and advised them I am currently unemployed. I cannot get any CCJ as I work in banking. I have not had a payment plan as my outgoings exceed my income and now have no savings left. As part of my plans I intend to try get a Mortage in next 2 years (as I understand companies still lend). My questions are as follows;
1) I haven’t set up any payment plan depite me saying I am willing to pay a small amount. This worries me if I ask for the CCA now they will think I don’t intend to pay and risk a CCJ? Do you think I should pay £1 at least even if they are not asking for it to protect myself?
2) what is your view on the following options…. pay £1 a month until 6 years pass, settle the account in full original amount or pay a discounted settlement – what will work best if I want to get Mortage. If I already have a default what difference does it make?
Thanks
Hasan 🙏🏽
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As part of my plans I intend to try get a Mortage in next 2 years (as I understand companies still lend).
with no savings and no job, how do you expect to be able to save the deposit?
how can you pay any discounted settlement?
Hasan says
yes some of this is based on some hypothetical assumptions, but once i am back into work my wife and i should be able to save and start again. I am back living with parents so once I am back working in a job that has even half the pay I was getting at the banks should be enough to save. As we are first time buyers I am hoping to utilize Help to buy / shared ownership options.
With regards to the discounted settlement I will be back into work at some point so this question is more about financial planning for the coming years and what options i have available to me.
I had a very well paid job in the city which due to cost cutting I will need to make some changes to my life and get it back on track.
So given my current circumstances and with the assumptions that things will improve once i am back into work how can I approach this please?
p.s i may also be able to get family to help if i get a good enough discount I can probably get hold of the money but only if its a big discount….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s very unlikely you will get a big discount anytime soon. Your defaults are too recent. You can ask for the CCA but you are taking a risk that they will find it. And even if the CCA cant be found, that doesn’t mean you will be able to settle at 5% or 10% when its going to be on your credit record for another 4 years.
If you can go back to a very well paid job, well your debts aren’t enormous, just settle them then.
Hasan says
Problem is I dont think I will be able to to go back to ding what i did due to my work being offshored so I will need to find something else so it will be a hard push to fully settle the total amount.
is there anything you can suggest how I maybe able to deal with this. Currently i am not paying anything. Should I at least set up a payment plan paying what i can say £10 a month for each? keep this going for 2-3 years years and then ask for the CCA then try for a settle with a discount? Do you think there would be any other ways of using leverage to obtain a discount T&Cs etc? I just want to pay the thing off but without a discount it will be a while.
Thank you Sara, i appreciate your valuable and straight talking advice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Setting up a an affordable payment is a good idea. But if you are on UC the amount you can afford may be nothing. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about working out what you can afford.
There is no set time at which you should ask for a CCA. The older the default, the easier it may be to get a settlement offer.
I don’t think you are in a position to do much apart for set up a payment arrangement and job hunt at the moment.
Rina says
Hello Sara,
Hope you can help. I currently have an active debt on my credit file that should have been defaulted in 2009/2010 prior to entering my DMP with CCCS/Stepchange. I have put in a request to NCO Europe/Capquest (currently managing debt) and they issued a final response stating they’re not responsible and referred me to NewDay formerly SAV Credit /Aqua (original creditor). I received a final response from NewDay refusing to uphold my complaint under statute of limitations and referring me to FOS which I have done.
As part of my request, I also requested a copy of the CCA (on 29th Jan 2020) and I am yet to receive a copy from NCO Europe/Capquest; they keep stating they are waiting for a copy from their client. Should I write to them requesting confirmation from them in writing that the CCA cannot be produced (more than 12 days) and the debt is unenforceable?
Can I request that the debt is written off on the basis that the debt is unenforceable? If the debt is written off, then the debt will show on my account as “settled” Or should I wait for the outcome of my complaint with FOS in regards to the default? If FOS rule in my favour and the default is backdated, it will be removed from my file completely. Is this a better outcome than a write off with ‘settled’ showing on my file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Should I write to them requesting confirmation from them in writing that the CCA cannot be produced (more than 12 days) and the debt is unenforceable?
I suggest you don’t “ask” instead you tell them as they haven’t produced the CCA agreement you assume the debt is unenforceable and tell them you won’t be making any more payments. And stop paying them.
Can I request that the debt is written off on the basis that the debt is unenforceable?
they won’t do this. You could instead offer a low amount in full & final settlement of the debt.
Hopefully your FOS complaint will get it removed from your record.
Rina says
I have just been on the phone to Capquest and they have said that all they can do is keep chasing their client. I can raise a complaint which will take 8 weeks for them to investigate and they will then issue their final response if they can’t resolve.
I want to stop making payments to Stepchange as this is the only debt left (all others have been confirmed unenforceable) but I’m concerned that if I do, Capquest will start recording missed/late payments on my file which will adversely affect it. Is this the case? Or is the debt on hold due to the complaint being investigated / them being unable to produce the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I want to stop making payments to Stepchange as this is the only debt left (all others have been confirmed unenforceable) but I’m concerned that if I do, Capquest will start recording missed/late payments on my file which will adversely affect it
That will happen even if Capquest agree the debt is unenforceable.
You need to get a default added to the debt by the original lender so it drops off your credit record.
paul says
hi , sara
i had an old credit card debt back before 2007 and stupidly back then even though i couldnt afford it i was phoned by link
they sent me a letter saying they now owned the debt from mbna ..
. if would offer to pay £5 a month which has been going on over 10 yrs now ..they recently last couple of yrs started saying it was a concessionary agrement of £5.00 a month and asked for expenditure forms to be filled in AGAIN WHICH I REFUSED..
they decided to cancel my direct debit but set up their own for same amount £ 5 a month saying i stil need to fil in expenditure forms but next year ..
. at that time i decided to ask for a cca request in december 2019 ,,
they ignored and then again i sent a letter in febuary 2020 which they ignored and recent emails ,,
finally may this year i decided to ask were my copy was ,
they then told me they got the request last december but could not get a copy of cca as it was too old from mbna.
. i then asked for a letter to confirm which i received this week ,, ,
i know even after all these years it was defaulted on my credit report now gone but if they decide to sell onto another debt purchaser am i liable or is it completly unenforceble like ive been told
many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If Link can’t get the CCA from MBNA it isn’t likely that anyone they sell the debt onto could get it either! I suggest you keep the letter from MBNA somewhere safe in case you ever need to produce it but apart from that regard this debt as having been dealt with.
paul hart says
the letter came from link saying cant get cca from mbna . but saying they can still collect as im still liable ,, and regarding the fact they took over 6 months to let me know they could not get it ,, and ive read this on another debt site help is this right thanks sara
timescales…
The Consumer Credit Act states that a creditor must send the agreement within 12 working days of receiving your request, otherwise they are in default. You should count the day of receipt as day zero, and not include weekends or bank holidays in your calculations.
If the default continues for a further month, the Act states that the Creditor commits an offence.
Should the creditor attempt to take further action after this time, it is recommended that you contact Trading Standards or Citizens Advice. You have six months from the date of the offence in which to report the breach.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if the CCA cannot be produced the debt still legally exists. They can ask you to pay it but they cannot go to court. And if they ask you to pay it, they must remind you in the same letter/email that the debt is currently unenforceable.
paul hart says
thnaks sara i cant upload a pic of letter ,, but this reply was what they said … on december 20th2019 mbna told them they couldnt provide a copy due to the age of the account … whilst this account is unenforceable we are still able to collect on the oustanding balance as you remain liable…… they cancelled my direct debit last november but set up their opwn for the said amouont £5.00
thnaks for your help sara this has been a noose over me for over 10 yrs for a 3,200 pound debt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They can ask you to pay the debt but if you refuse they cannot take you to court. If they are collecting a DD of £5 a month you can cancel it if you want – there is no reason why you should carry on paying.
Struggling.... says
Hi Sara, thanks for all this good advice that you are giving out.
Today I got rejected for an F&F IVA as I do not have a mortgage. Thought I would give it a try as I am currently on a DMP, been on one for 10 years. Heliodor purchased my unsecured loan from NRAM this year and they were the one that rejected it as they had the highest debt (£20K). I have access to some money from my pension pot which is what I used to make the offer. My question: Does it make sense to offer a settlement to Heliodor as they are the only one showing on my credit record? They may get more money as there is no IVA fees to pay the IP. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what are the other debts in your DMP?
how old are you?
what DMP payments are you making?
Struggling.... says
I’m 58 and husband is retired on state pension, 68. I recently was made redundant due to CV-19 but was on a zero-hour contract anyways.
The other debts (£15K) are old CC debts with the original lender, but has fallen off my credit report, but enforceable. DMP is £52 per month. We own our flat outright. thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My thoughts are that:
– this doesnt seem like a good point to take money out of your pension. Why not just carry on with the DMP?
– you should ask your DMP firm to suspend or reduce DMP payments until you get another job. DMP firms are being very sympathetic about this.
– when did you get into arrears with NRAM? I am wondering if you could get them to add a default earlier so it drops off. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
– you may think it makes sense to offer more to creditors who are on your credit record but it may upset the other creditors. You dont want them going for CCJs and then charging orders.
Struggling.... says
Thanks for your good advice Sara. I will follow it.
I did try to get default with NRAM, but they said no as they agreed to reduced payments/DMP. I will try again, maybe second time lucky? I went on DMP in 2011.
Struggling.... says
Hi Sara, you have been so helpful and I was wondering if you could comment on my letter to NRAM. I’ve put all the necessary facts, but wanted some wording for the reason to add a default date. Do you think this is okay? Thanks
“In accordance with ICO guidance NRAM should have defaulted us when the account was between 3 – 6 months into our DMP as we were no longer making the contractual payments. Not filing the default has meant the record will remain on our file (indefinitely as we are still on the DMP) which is longer than it would have done had we not paid the debt. Therefore, we are now disadvantaged compared to someone who chose not to pay their debt”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Looks OK!
Struggling.... says
Brilliant…thanks so much!
Darcey says
Hi Sara,
My mum passed away a few months ago and we are In the process of sorting through her finances. She had 3 credit cards which were taken out in the early 90’s. I believe the debt to be unenforceable for all 3 cards And have written confirmation of this for one account. As my brother has Probate, I am a little unsure of what we should do about the unenforceable account as We don’t want it to effect his credit record. Can it be defaulted against his name as he has Probate and is now responsible for her Estate? Could you suggest what the best thing would be do for the unenforceable debt?
Thank you so much
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can it be defaulted against his name as he has Probate and is now responsible for her Estate?
No.
I suggest he asks National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 what he as executor can do – is he entitled to ask for th4e CCA agreement for the credit card debts.
Darcey says
Thank you for your reply Sara,
We have now received correspondence from 2 of the 3 creditors in response to CCA requests and both are said to be unenforceable.
I was most concerned about the debt defaulting in his name so thank you for your reassurance.
I will ask him to give National Debt Line a call to see where we stand.
Thanks again
Jan says
Hi Sara
Me and my husband have been paying a number of debts for around 8 years now and they have all dropped off our credit files. I have one CCJ which I know I need to keep paying but the others are arrangements with the debt collection agencies. We requested CCA’s back in March – 1 has come back to say they cannot provide it and that the debt is unenforceable, 2 haven’t come back with anything (so assuming they can’t get them) and one has sent an agreement but there are no dates on it (would this be right?) We have continued making payments over the last few months. Am I right in thinking we can just stop payments where CCA have not been provided without offering full and final settlement. I feel I have given them enough time now even with the current COVID situation. Over the years we have probably paid 50-75% of the original debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1 has come back to say they cannot provide it and that the debt is unenforceable – so you can stop paying
2 haven’t come back with anything (so assuming they can’t get them) – I suggest you stop paying and email them to say this and that you will restart if they produce the CCA agreement that you asked for on dd/mm/yy
1 has sent an agreement but there are no dates on it – see How can you tell if it’s right in here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#How_can_you_tell_if_it_is_right
Matilda says
I have an old overdraft that went to default in March 2018 with the bank account was also being closed. It was then passed on to a debt collection company in March 2018 too. Then at a later date, another company took over the running of the defaulted amount.
I have been paying £50 a month for a while now (although this was never an agreed amount, I just started paying it and they have been happy enough).
I have asked for a my credit agreement, but they have so far been unable to provided one – 20 days later.
I have now read, overdrafts don’t count?
What should I do?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What is the rest of your financial situation like?
Matilda says
Thank you for the reply.
I have one other default again overdraft and with the same bank other than that everything else is good. 2018 was a really bad year for us and that’s why these defaults happened.
I do have some other open accounts (store cards) but with low balance and all up to date.
We are in a position to be able to continue with the £50 or offer a settlement but it would be very low in comparison to the debt – 20%. -30% maybe.
My husband is still working full time. I have reduced my wage and become a Carer for my daughter. We also now also get disability benefit for her, caters allowance, plus extra benefits linked to this. I’m working less but our incoming money is more – although it’s linked to my daughters disability.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s quite recent for them to accept a low settlement offer but because of your daughter’s disability it may be worth a try.
But you had two overdrafts from the same bank? Were they large? Were they really affordable before your problems in 2018?
Sarah says
They were both very large (£5500 and £3500) and no we couldn’t afford them before then – we just lived in our overdrafts for years and then added to them because we couldn’t afford to live. It came to a huge standstill in 2018 because the charges went up and we just couldn’t keep up anymore.
I know it’s terrible financial responsibility, but we were struggling for a long time!
How much do you think they would accept?
They have sent a reply saying they haven’t got the original agreement yet (I now understand it’s not needed for an overdraft) and they aren’t looking to enforce the debt but want to make sure we have an affordable payment plan in place and to write to them if we feel it’s wrong.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are the £50 payment (is it one or two?) really affordable for you now? If it is, I suggest carrying on with that for a while. If you need it reduced, ask for a lower payment – the disability benefits are because of the costs for your daughter’s disability, not for paying your debts. it’s your choice if you want to use the money to clear debts but the bank will probably be understanding if you need to pay less.
I think you should also read https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ and think about making a complaint saying your overdraft limits were raised much too high without the bank checking they were affordable for you. Ask for the fees to be refunded on them.
Matilda says
I will have a read, thank you.
I do use disability pay for my daughter, but I do get benefits for myself because I care for her so use this to help pay for things.
I have today received a letter saying they are investigating my request and they will not be contacting me about any payments until they investigated and have an update for me. They said they need to contact the company they are working for so may take a while.
This is the same company that sent an email saying they will not be enforcing the debt but are looking for a affordable payment plan.
I’ve already paid around 18% of the original debt.
Matilda says
The debt is no longer with the bank and the bank have registered it as settled on my credit report – so guess that’s when they sold it on. It is now being managed by another company working on behalf of the company now holding the debt.
Kerri says
Please can I have some advice, I have a DMP with four outstanding debts,3 are nearly 10 years old and are not on my credit report. I am anxious about stopping paying but should I ask for a f & f?
I also have payday loans with lending stream (sold to Lantern) from 2017, this is causing issues with credit as registered as defaults. I have put an affordability complaint to them and believe I have a strong case As I have been granted some refund from sunny n awaiting from Wonga.
I have to move out and need to have a good credit rating, should I pay off the debt with lantern as this is causing the issue?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am anxious about stopping paying
have you asked for CCA and they can’t find them?
when did you send the Lending Stream complaint in?
Sandra C says
Hi I have requested credit agreement from pra and they have emailed me copy statements from barclaycard and no agreement – what should I do?
Please help me thank you Sandra
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See How can you tell if it is right? in https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/.
But if it is clearly not the credit agreement, go back to them and point this out.
Sue says
Sara,
Help and advice desperately needed yet aqain! I foolishly offered Robinson Way £1,000 as a F & F payment for a debt that goes back to before 2005. At the time, I was totally unaware about CCA’s, which I have since asked for, and have been told that they have asked the original lender for these.
My dilemma is this: They have given me until the 11th October 2020 to accept and arrange payment. Do I pay the £1,000 or: do I contact them again and tell them that I won’t pay anything until I receive the CCA’s. Ultimately, I am hoping (and praying) that as the debts are so old, that they may be unenforceable.
Your advice would be so, so appreciated. Thank You.
Sue.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You know the problem. With such old debts there is a serious chance that the CCA will not be produced. But it may be.
Sue says
Sara,
So sorry to be a pain, but would your advice be to write and tell them that no payment will be made until I receive the CCA’s. This whole situation is causing my anxiety to go through the roof, and I just don’t know what to do for the best. I have until 11th October to make a decision as far as paying the £1,000 but don’t know how long to wait for the CCA’s to materialise. I requested them on the 25th August.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t advise you what to do – you could talk to StepChange if you want more details and advice as they know more about your situation. Your options may be:
1) pay RW the £1000. Here the CCA agreement is irrelevant and you have sorted this debt out at a cost of £1000.
2) wait until RW reply on the CCA agreement. They may not do this before the 11 Oct deadline, so this may be stressful for you. Of course this deadline may be just a bluff and they may be happy to take the offer at the end of Oct. £1000 is a very generous offer on a debt of about £1500!
3) Get this debt included in your DMP now and wait and see what happens with the CCA. This removes a lot of the stress from you now.
– if RW can’t produce the CCA agreement – And this is quite likely! it’s not some rare chance you are hoping for – you can just tell StepChange to take the debt out of your DMP. And you could use the £1000 to settle some other debt!
– RW produce the CCA agreement. You can just let the DMP continue, it will be a very low stress route for you.
– RW produce the CCA agreement and you offer them £1000 to settle. At this point they know if they say No, you will just continue with the DMP so they may well decide to say Yes.
– RW produce the CCA agreement and say No to £10000. Here you can use the £1000 to settle some other debt.