If you get a letter saying that Big Bank has sold your debt to Snake & Weasel Debt Collectors you may be very worried.
This article answers questions about what has happened and how it will affect you. Will the debt collection agency (DCA) be horrible to deal with? Is it legal to do this? Do you still have to pay the money? What about your credit record? What if you don’t owe the money/
Has your debt really been sold?
Sometimes a lender will appoint a debt collector to try to collect the money for them. This isn’t a “sale” – you still owe the money to the original lender and none of the rest of this article is relevant.
If you aren’t sure what has happened, the best thing is to contact the original creditor and ask them if your debt has been sold or not. If you are worried and don’t want to talk to the creditor, phone National Debtline for advice about the letter.
Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?
When a sale happens, everything about your debt – all the terms and conditions – remains the same, except that you now owe the money to the debt collector who has bought the debt, not the original creditor.
You won’t be asked to agree to the sale and you can’t object or stop the sale.
You agree to the original terms when you borrowed the money or opened the account. In the small print there will have been a clause that said that the lender can “assign his rights” to a third-party. This is the legal term for a “sale”
(There is one exception here. If your lender subscribes to the Standards of Lending Practice and if they had previously been shown evidence that you have mental health problems, your debt should not have been sold. Go to your local Citizens Advice if you would like help with this situation.)
Your debt can be sold if you are in debt management or you have an arrangement to pay. It may not feel fair if the lender accepted your monthly offer and you are making the payments as agreed, but legally the lender can still sell the debt.
How much was my debt sold for?
That will depend on the state of your account. A debt where you have paid token payments or nothing for a long while may have been sold for very little, just a penny or two in the pound. If you are making regular payments then it will have been sold for more.
You won’t be told what your account was sold for. The sale is a commercial agreement between the seller and the buyer. This may seem annoying, non-transparent or unethical, but the debt collector and the original lender are not doing anything wrong by not telling you the sale price.
The price the debt collector paid for your debt is irrelevant to you. It doesn’t affect the amount that you now owe – you still owe the full amount but now to the debt collector.
If the lender has been paid, why do I owe anything?
The original lender has had the debt settled by the DCA. But you now owe the money to the DCA instead.
Think of this example. You borrow £200 from your sister for some car repairs, agreeing to pay her back £50 a month. But she suddenly needs all the money immediately, so your dad gives your sister the £200 and you repay your dad instead. Same debt, same repayments. You borrowed from your sister but now you don’t owe her anything but you do need to repay your dad.
This is pretty much what has happened with your debt being sold. Your debt stays exactly the same, you just owe it to a different person.
(NB The above example isn’t an attempt to explain the legal contractual obligations – it is an analogy illustrating why you now have to repay someone else. See “Is this legal? Why wasn’t I asked?” above, for the legal points.)
I want to carry on paying the original lender
You can’t do this. You don’t owe any money to the original lender anymore.
Will the debt collector be difficult?
You may find that debt collectors are as easy to deal with as the original lender. Indeed they may be more likely to freeze interest or accept a full and final settlement offer!
If you had a payment arrangement with the original lender, for example in a debt management plan, you just need to offer the same amount to the debt collector.
There are regulations to make sure that consumer credit debt collectors behave fairly. All debt collectors handling credit card and loan debts have to be regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and if you have problems with one, the Financial Ombudsman will look at your complaint.
Unless you ignore the debt collector, it’s unlikely that you will get phone calls at work.
But I now have two defaults on my credit file!
Debts are usually already defaulted before they are sold. When it is sold the original creditor will mark the debt as settled with a zero balance owing and the debt collector will add the debt with the same default date that the original creditor used.
So now there are now two debts with defaults on your credit record which looks bad.
But the total of all your debts is right – the debt isn’t being double counted because one of these says that there is zero owing. And when your credit rating is calculated, the original debt is ignored, so your credit score will not get worse because you now seem to have two defaults.
If the debt collector adds a default date which is later than the original creditor, this is wrong. What should the Default Date for a debt be? explains how you can get it changed.
Can the debt collector take me to court?
Yes. The debt collector now has all the rights that the original lender had and this includes applying for a County Court Judgment (CCJ).
You don’t have to worry that this is going to happen straight away. The debt collector would rather reach an agreement with you for monthly payments and not have the cost and bother of going to court.
But in 2019 there were more than 100,000 CCJs every month. Half of these CCJS were for less than £650 – it seems that debt collectors are going to court more often and for smaller debts. So don’t ignore debts or you may get a CCJ.
Has this reset the 6 year period for becoming statute-barred?
No. If the debt isn’t yet statute-barred, the 6 year period carries on, it doesn’t start again after the sale.
But read Statute Barred Debt – Common Questions because statute barring is now more complicated by a recent court ruling in January 2019.
A debt that is already statute-barred will continue to be so after the sale.
The letter doesn’t say what the debt is!
If you get a letter that might be about a debt but it doesn’t give any details at all, it is just asking you to call them, then this is a “fishing expedition”. They don’t really know who the debt belongs to and they are hoping someone will give them their details (date of birth, previous addresses) that will match.
You can usually ignore these vague letters – see Prime Location Services – do I have to call them? for an example.
But I don’t owe this money
If the letter mentions a debt which you do not owe – perhaps because you never borrowed from that lender or because you have already repaid it – then don’t ignore the letters but reply telling the debt collector to Prove It!.
You may need to be persistent. It is the debt collector’s job to show you are the borrower. You don’t have to prove you aren’t.
I am in a DMP, what should I do?
If you have a debt management plan run by a company, tell the DMP company. They will switch your monthly payment to go to the debt collector.
If you are running your own DMP, you need to cancel any standing order paying the original lender, offer to pay the same amount to the DCA and ask for their payment details. They may ask you to provide a new Statement of Affairs.
If you have been ignoring this debt, this is a good point to review your whole situation and your possible debt solutions.
A simple overview of your debt options
Threats of court – are debt collectors bluffing?
Ask for the CCA agreement for old debts
Lisa says
Hello,
I have just checked my credit file and seen that Lantern Debt Recovery have added 2 defaults to my file, one as of 1st Oct 2020, and another which will appear on my file at the next report update next month – I have no idea what these debts/defaults are and have not had any contact from Lantern about these debts either??? – I am not sure what the best course of action is? The default that is currently on my profile says that the loan was from Aug 2017 and the one that is pending does not have any information provided at all. I googled Lantern Debt recovery and have seen loads of forums with really negative feedback and experiences, so need to some advice before dealing with them directly – help!
Weatherman says
Hi Lisa
You need to know what these debts are for before you can work out exactly what to do next. So I would contact Lantern and ask who they believe the debts were originally with, how much they believe you owe, and when they believe you took the debt out. If you frame it as ‘what they believe’, it shouldn’t reset the statute-bar clock, as you’re not *acknowledging* that you owe the debt. (More on statute-barring here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/)
If they’re not debts you think you owe, you can challenge the original lenders (but tell Lantern that’s what you’re doing if so).
If they are old debts, Lantern might have put a more recent default on. You can ask the original lender to put an appropriate default on your report (which is usually after you’ve paid reduced payments, or missed payments, for 3-6 months) – Lantern might put their own default on as well, but it should be for the same date as the original creditor’s default.
I don’t know about Lantern specifically, but I wouldn’t read *too* much into the negative online reviews. Even when they do everything right, no-one likes a debt collector!
Billy Unknown says
Hi, Lantern contacted me a few months ago and also claimed i owed them money. After issuing a Subject Access Request it turned out they had the wrong person with the same name. By which point they had already left a default payment on my credit history. I have written to them many times, emails and phone calls and still waiting for them to rectify. As i was disgusted with how the company pursued the debt against the wrong person i took the following actions;
1) Requested Evidence
2) Subject Access Request
3) Regular letters following this
4) Regular calls
5) Regular emails
6) Contacted the CEO
7) Contacted the FCA
8) Contacted the ICO
9) Contacted the Financial Ombudsman
Time will tell if it will be fully resolved.
Lantern acted inappropriately with my information, they didn’t do any evaluation before adding a default to credit history, they have failed to rectify the issue in a timely manner. Very unprofessional and the customer service team is extremely unhelpful.
Personally i also contacted my credit agencies and they were very unhelpful too. I found the only course of action was to investigate with Lantern directly.
Kind regards
Weatherman says
Fair enough, and sorry you had such a bad experience. The Financial Ombudsman Service should be able to put this right for you and give Lantern a bit of a shoeing.
Good luck with the complaint.
bmk says
Hi I’ve been looking to make a complaint to very, my debts with them is now with Lowel. I cant find any email to complain to everything has all bounced back, Has anyone managed do to this be email ? thanks in advance .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
For affordability complaints against Very, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/
Manny says
Hi, i had a debt with PayPal Credit but i forgot/didn’t realise they had sold it on to Moorcroft. In September I had a little extra money and decided to pay off the final £140 to clear that one (i still have multiple other debts). I paid via debit card to PayPal directly. I informed my debt management company (StepChange) of this. I receive a notification from StepChange out of the blue on Friday saying i have a new creditor on my plan – it’s Moorcroft for £245 (which is what it was outstanding in July or August – but when i paid PayPal – the next month’s had been taken – so around 140 was officially left – which i chose to pay off in one final lump sum) . Will i have to pay the £245 to Moorcroft – even though i’d paid off the debt to PayPal?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, but tell StepChange and they should sort this out for you.
Matthew says
I had a debt with myjar, which was later sold to lantern. I have two defaults listed on my credit file.
I have recently lodged a complaint with myjar administrators because I don’t believe that the myjar loans were affordable. I would regularly roll over and reborrow.
Lantern have been writing to me but I haven’t contacted them back. I’m worried that they’ll take me to court and I’ll get a CCJ.
Should I set up a repayment plan with lantern or is it possible to ask them to put a halt on debt collection until the dispute with myjar is resolved?
Also, when myjar administrators fully fold up the business, I’m assuming that the default will be removed from my credit file, as it was with Wonga. What would then happen with the Lantern default on my file?
Thank you so much!
Matthew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m worried that they’ll take me to court and I’ll get a CCJ.
Lantern may do that.
Setting up a payment plan may be a good idea. What are the rest of your finances like?
I’m assuming that the default will be removed from my credit file, as it was with Wonga.
Yes if the administrators uphold your claim
What would then happen with the Lantern default on my file?
You can ask them to remove the default. But what is the default date?
Matthew says
Thank you so much for that.
My finances are stretched because I’m self employed (and well…. Corona), but I’m up to date with all bills and credit accounts for the last 24 months. I could afford to make nominal monthly payments or perhaps even agree a settlement figure with them of a few hundred pounds (if they were willing to remove the default). I’m just worried that I’ll be paying money that I’d no longer owe if my complaint is upheld (strong feeling that it will be).
The default date for myjar is listed as 13th Feb 2019 and the default for Motormile is listed as 14th Jan 2019 – which does seem a little strange.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so recent – you really want that gone. If the default was in 2015 it would be dropping off this year anyway.
Matthew says
I do! and I DEFINITELY don’t want a CCJ. Do you think perhaps I should agree a settlement figure with motormile on the proviso that they remove the default, then bide my time until the MyJar administrators hopefully find in my favour and remove that default also?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Lantern/Motormile probably won’t agree to a settlement like that. But you don’t need them to reemove the default. If you can just get a settlement agreed, then if Myjar uphold your complaint for that last defaulted loan, Lantern should remove the default.
Matthew says
Hi Sara,
I am now in communication with Lantern about a full and final settlement figure for this MyJar account.
I haven’t heard back from the MyJar administrators with a final response on my irresponsible lending case, but…. MyJar have just deleted the default from my credit file. Do you think that this is a positive sign in relation to the case? Why would they do that if they were not going to find in my favour?
I am now wondering if I can use this when negotiating with Lantern to settle the account? i.e. can I ask Lantern to remove the default that THEY have listed on my file when I settle the account with them.
I’m about to apply for a joint mortgage with my partner, hence this frantic desire to improve my credit record as quickly as possible. The Lantern default is now the last remaining major black mark on my file.
I appreciate all your help so far.
Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have heard Myjar are deleting all loans – that may not be right.
Lantern may not be impressed unless you can produce evidence that the administrators have upheld your case.
I hope you know all of the following:
– Getting a default settled will not result in a better credit score.
– most mortgage lenders won’t consider someone with a very recently settled default.
– most lenders will reject you for a mortgage if you have had a payday loan open in the last two years.
So you need this loan gone, not just settled.
Rachel says
Sarah, I had a debt with payday express that was sold to PRA group. I’ve only just noticed this is being reported as a missed payment every month on my credit report. PRA can’t produce the CCA. I’m due to get a settlement from ICL as I made a successful claim. I want this off my credit record and worried the missed payment will show for years. I can’t ask the original company to add a default as they closed down. I’ve no idea what to do. I get the impression from ICL that the debt info will be removed from my credit file but they said as its gone to a debt company they can’t help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know when you defaulted on the loan? When it was sold to PRA?
If ICL uphold your claim, you can ask PRA to remove all negative information on the date.
Rachel says
Hi Sarah I defaulted in September 2015. The debt was sold to PRA in 2017
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did the ICL loan show an any of the credit reference agencies – Experian, Equifax or TransUnion? If it did, has it been removed?
Rebecca says
Hi.
I had a debt with jacamo mid 2019, who then sold it to DMPay. There is now a default on my credit file, however, I have made payments from the beginning with DMPay.
I have been trying to seek clarity on who actually owns the default, as neither party are taking ownership.
Is there a way to find out?
Mainly seeking an answer as I’m wanting to settle the debt and hopefully remove the default as a good will gesture as I’ve seen people have done that.
Also, since the beginning of the default I have paid every month, but it is still been marked red and no payment every month which I’m unsure about?
Any advice would be extremely appreciated :)
Weatherman says
Hi Rebecca
The default could have been entered by either Jacamo or DMPay, or even one of each (although they should use the same date). What does the credit report itself say?
If you settle the debt with DMPay, who now own the debt, but Jacamo’s default is still on your file, you can also ask Jacamo to remove the default, although they might not.
As for the ‘no payment’ issue, again it depends on whose default it is. If Jacamo have sold the debt they should have updated the file to say so, and that there is now zero owing to them. You can ask them to do that if they haven’t.
If the debt is listed as owing to DMPay, contact them and ask them to update your payment status.
I hope that helps!
Rebecca says
Thanks for your reply weatherman!
That’s the issue I seem to be having though. On my credit file it states the default is DMPay Ltd, but when I have discussed the matter with them they say it is Jacamo who issued the default so it is not their responsibility. So, then I’ve gotten in touch with Jacamo, and they said the issue is DMPay as they have bought the debt.
I can’t seem to get a straight answer.
On my credit file its marked as missed payments every month even though I am paying also. Is that how it works as it’s a default even though I have a payment plan with them?? DMPay have said that’s how it works, but I don’t understand how it’s showing the total balance going down every month but marking the payments as not paid?
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If Jacomo added a default is them you have to complain to if you think its wrong. DMPay are just using the default Jacomo did.
If Jacomo remove it or change the date, DMPay will have to do the same.
Yes you will often end up with a default if you are making low payments. it may seem unfair but that’s how it works.
It is rare that a creditor will remove a default if you settle the debt. In fact it’s against the credit reporting rules. I won’t say it never happens but it shouldn’t.
you have to settle with DMPay as they own the debt.
Rebecca says
Thanks for clearing that up Sarah makes sense now. :)
I’m paying £50 monthly for £1200 debt didn’t think that was low, but what do I know about how it works.
I had read a fair few times that people were paying off there outstanding amounts and then they would remove the default as a good will gesture, I didn’t know it was against any rules :$
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can try, I’m just saying it often won’t work.
lynne says
I am currently going through my three credit reports to see if they all match up.
Most/all of my defaults will have gone later this year.
However, I have identified a few from Lowell and from Intrum (all with low balances), which were bought from the original creditor in 2014/2015 and are marked on my file as being either in a “special arrangement” or “active”.I notice that a default date is not showing although I ceased to make full payments many years ago and have been making small payments all this time.
The debts to the original creditor have now fallen off my file but remain from these debt collectors for the same accounts.
My question is how do I get rid of these ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask the original creditor to add a default date on or before the date they sold debt. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
lynne says
I have now emailed the original creditors (J D Williams companies) to ask for a date of default to be added near to when I stopped making full payments.However I have read above that they may try to pass responsibility back and forth to the debt collectors and vice versa.
Should that be the case what options do I have in having this added?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
tell them it is their responsibility and you will send a complaint to the Ombudsman if they don’t agree. Do not waste time talking to the debt collector.
lynne says
Thanks Sarah.
Robert says
Hi.
I just got reply from Everyday Loans that they mis sold me two loans couple of years ago and they will refund me the interest I payed. As I was unable to repay those loans they sold them to Lowell and Lowell charging me massive interest. My question is that if Everyday Loans mis sold me those loans what can I do now to minimise paying to Lowell?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell Everyday Loans that you want the payments you have made to Lowell taken into account and the default removed from your credit records with Everyday Loans and with Lowell.
Robert says
Hi.
Thanks for quick reply.
This mean I will still have to pay to Lowell even the loans has been mis sold to me by Everyday Loans?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is up to EL how they handle this. They will either arrange for the balance with Lowell to be reduced to what it should be without interest. Or they will buy the loan back from Lowell so you have to repay the balance to EL.
If you know the numbers I can help say how much you should owe?
Loan 1 – what did you borrow? how much did you pay EL eg 15 payments of £157.
Loan 2 – what did you borrow? If this loan settled loan 1, how much did you get in cash? how much have you paid EL for this loan? How much have you paid Lowell?
Robert says
“I have found evidence to suggest that some affordability checks were not completed when both loans were approved.
Loan 1: You took this loan in November 2014. The loan amount was £1,740. As this loan has been found to be unaffordable to you, we would require you to pay back the amount you had use of with no interest. By the time this account was settled you had paid a total of £1,274.14 on this account leaving an outstanding balance of £465.86 for the amount borrowed to be repaid in full. This amount will be deducted from the overpayment made on loan 2.
Loan 2: You took this loan in July 2015. The loan amount was £2,477.85 of which £977.85 was used to settle your previous loan and £1,500 which you had full use of. As this loan has been found to be unaffordable to you, we would require you to pay back the amount you had use of with no interest. By the time this account was sold to Lowell you had paid a total of £834.30. Lowell have confirmed that since they have been collecting this account you have paid them a total of £1,250. You have therefore paid a total of £2,084.30 to date on this account. You have therefore paid £584.30 more than the amount you had use of.” This is reply from EL. And just to give you head up that my starting balance on Lowell account was around 3500 pound! Thank you for your help.
Ash says
In January 2005, I had a debt of £8800 with Barclaycard. I lost my job and had a very difficult time financially. I left the UK and went back to my native land. I was never in touch with Barclaycard. In 2018, I came back to UK to start on a fresh slate. I check my credit file and the debt was time barred and my credit file was fine. I bought a house where I now live and managed to get a job, just about to make ends meet.
Today, Intrum ( debt collector) wrote to my new address, stating that they have bought my debt off Barclaycard on 1 Feb 2006. They asked me to consider paying 25% of the £8800 by this month (28 Feb 2021), and they will write off the balance. or pay £7000 in March 2021 and they will write off the balance of £1800.
They made me aware that the period for them recovering my debt has expired, so they will not be issuing Court Proceedings to enforce payment. But that the debt still exists and legally they are within their means to continue to ask me to make repayment. Currently I have chosen to ignore their letter. I already have credit card payments, which I opened again with Barclaycard/American Express outstanding by £18000, which I am paying each month and I am not in a position to pay a dent dating 2005.
Please advise if I can ignore the letter, given that Intrum (Debt Collector) is saying that they cannot enforce debt in Court. Any implications?
Weatherman says
Hi Ash
You don’t need to do anything with this debt. The main reasons you might are for peace of mind/to stop Intrum occasionally contacting you, or because a mortgage lender will sometimes ask if you have *any* outstanding debts (and you have to tell them, even if they’re not your credit report).
Are you handling the ongoing payments on your current credit card alright?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just tell Intrum that you won’t be paying them anything. They aren’t going to go to court. No one will come to your house.
If you are clear, then they will give up after a while.
Rob says
Good Morning all,
A little technical question about defaults and credit reports – as I couldn’t find an exact answer in the FAQ’s.
I had a catalogue account a number of years ago – 2011ish which went into default in 2015. The debt was sold to a debt company whom I have been paying back by direct debit every month since.
-The debt company updates the account status every month and reports the account in default.
Will this default mark be removed from my credit file in 2021 as that’s 6 years from when I first defaulted with the catalogue or will it remain until I have repaid the debt to the debt collector as they still update every month.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it will go 6 years after the default date.
How much do you still owe?
Sarah says
Hi I got a letter from BW legal regarding a bill for talk talk for £177. The letter states that if not paid county court action will commence on 28th March. I have emailed asking for the original credit agreement as proof. This morning they have emailed stating I electronically signed it and the contract is binding but they have requested the relevant documents from talk talk. My question is what do I do know? Do I rely to the message? Do I wait for the credit agreement? I’m worried if I don’t do anything they will still take me to court. Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you had a letter headed something like Letter Before Claim or Letter Before Action? With several attachments including one headed Reply Form?
Also what sort of debt was this?
Sarah says
Hi thanks for your reply,
The letter I got had a financial statement included and it stated court action can be avoided if I either pay in full or instalments. It is for a utility bill.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, if this is for a utility bill it is unlikely that is a CCA agreement at all, so they don’t have to produce one. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about what your options are.
Sarah Fallon says
Thanks Sara I’ll get in touch with them
Tracy says
Hi, My son had a parking fine that was not paid and BW legal sent him letters chasing this, due to his mental illness at the time he did not try to fight this and offered and they agreed to a payment plan of £1.00 per month. As he has been paying this for over 12 months now and the debt will not be fully paid till 2032 is there anything that we can do to get this written off without having to pay the outstanding balance in full?
He was also hounded by Gladstone Solicitors and has to pay them £10.00 a month. there was a lot of emails at the time and I did try offering both a reduced settlement figure due to his health and that it was a gift from me but they both refused and to be honest were not very nice to deal with so we accepted the payment plan just to get them off my sons back.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this payment to Gladstone solicitors for the same debt?
does your son have other problem debts as well?
Tracy says
Hi Sarah.
No the one with Gladstone was different parking company.
Yes he had a lot of debts at the time most of them I managed to either pay reduced amounts to settle them in full or the company’s agreed to write them off.
He had one with Satsuma loans and they wrote to advise they would get back to me and I have not heard from them in over 18 months.
One with Lending stream who is now with Asset Management – which I have requested a Consumer Credit agreement as we can not locate
Tracy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is your son in work? If not, is this ever likely to change?
Tracy says
Not currently but we are working towards this and hopeful that he will in the future even if only part time.
I am just trying to get rid of all his old debts so he can start with a clean slate so to speak.
I do not want to mess up his current payment plans but if they would take a full and final settlement at a reduced rate I am happy to get them paid off. I just do not want to mess up what is currently set up as he is managing them it just stresses him they will not end till 2032
Tracy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so there are no simple ways to make them accept a settlement offer or write this off. You can ask them, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/. It would help to include medical information about his mental health problems and an income & expensditure statement drawn up by a debt adviser. His local Citizens Advice can help with this.
But this is not a “commercial” debts so if the creditors say no, he can’t go to the Ombudsman and say this is unfair.
In many ways it is a shame you/he didnt take the easy way out earlier and opt for a debt releief order – a sort of simple bankruptcy. That would have saved you money and would have cleared the lot. That is still an option now, but you may feel you may as well try to repay the few that are left.
Tracy says
Hi Sara
As per message above.
“Debt with Lending stream who is now with Asset Management – which I have requested a Consumer Credit agreement in March 2021 as we can not locate any details”
My son has not had acknowledgement or confirmation from them other than an automated email asking for payment to which he copied them into the Consumer Credit agreement request as it is now over 2 months should we contact them again asking for an update or just wait to see if they contact again?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
He made the CCA request to AM? Did they cash the cheque?
Tracy says
He sent it by email so no they have not asked the money but they are also not replying should he send it again?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Don’t start the process again, he needs to contact them and ask why they have no responded to this. If they say that wasn’t a valid request for a CCA as he did not opay the £1 fee, then he will need to start again by letter.
Tracy says
Thank you for the quick reply I will get him to contact them and see what they say.
Karen says
Last Friday my husband received a letter from Lantern saying Endsleigh insurance had passed a debt on to them but first to Oriel?. It is for £125.11p which is supposedly for a missed vehicle insurance payment in June 2016. We remained in that house until Sept 2017. No letters came from either company nor Endsleigh themselves. We have been at our present address since then 3 and a half years!. I tried contacting Endsleigh who wouldn’t give me the original amount, then Lantern.. They wouldn’t tell me either! Except that amount quoted above. I must admit I gave them the sharp end!. What really angered me is that almost 5 years have passed without any previous letters until last Friday.
After I breathed a bit ,I went on their website and made a payment of £5. I then wrote to ask why it’s taken this long and unless I get further details from them I will not pay another penny. I only intend to pay the ” missed payment” I am furious! This would have been dealt with immediately had Endsleigh made one phone call in 2016.
Will I be forced to pay their rotten charges too? It was a missed bank payment.
Weatherman says
Hi Karen
I can completely understand your frustration – but you shouldn’t just ignore even part of the amount they say you owe.
If you disagree that you should owe it at all, you can dispute the debt. Do that with Endsleigh, but tell Lantern you’re doing it.
You could also complain that Endsleigh should have contacted you about the missed payment. If you’re successful in that challenge, you should only need to pay the missed payment.
For either dispute, if Endsleigh reject the complaint or don’t respond within 8 weeks, you can escalate it to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If they decide Endsleigh were in the wrong, they can make a binding decision about what Endsleigh should do.
If you just don’t pay the rest, or if your complaint is rejected but you still don’t pay, then you risk Lantern (who probably have bought the debt from Endsleigh) taking further action like getting a CCJ. In that situation, paying the full balance is your best option if you can.
Chelle says
Hello Sara,
Please can you help.
I had a loan with a Credit Union over 6 years ago and this was sent to a Debt Collector- Regency Collection Services (who are not even regulated by FCA).
I still have the debt with the credit union, so i presume they still own the rights of my debt. The outstanding balance on the loan was approx £1000 at the time. The debt collector added 45% to the originally loan, making impossible to clear the balance. I ask the credit union could i come to a payment plan with them as i was not managing and the debt was not reducing- i was refused saying they would incur a fee! Fast forward to present day and i am still paying Regency Collection. I get threatening messages they will charge me £200 and visit my home. They have charge me 12 *£50 for a broken arrangement, amount to £750 which is unreasonable and unjustifiable to be charged a sufficient amount it’s above the current payment arrangement. I so far have paid over £1750, which is above the original debt plus they are still
saying i owe another £500! I have written to the credit union today, any advice you can give please Sara would be greatly appreciated.
Weatherman says
Hi Chelle
What a horrible situation. If you’re paying Regency directly, I’d usually think they’ve bought the debt from the Credit Union – see what the Credit Union say in reply to your letter.
A debt collector, or the Credit Union, can only add charges that are set out in the original contract that you signed. If they’re not, you can complain – and if the charges are excessively high, as they seem to be, they might be ‘unfair terms’ even if they’re in the contract.
Even if Regency now own the debt and are not regulated by the FCA, I think the Financial Ombudsman Service could consider your case because it involves a consumer credit debt – see: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/debt-collecting
You would need to complain to Regency first if they own the debt. If the Credit Union still owns the debt, you can complain to them about the actions of the agency they’ve contracted (and take the Credit Union to the Financial Ombudsman Service if you need to).
I would speak to National Debtline about all this, as they can give you further advice: 0808 808 4000. I hope it all gets sorted for you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is one of those situations where sometimes local knowledge can help. National Debtline are very good but it may be useful to speak to your local Citizens Advice about this.
chelle says
Thank you both for taking the time to reply it’s greatly appreciated. I will contact National Debt Helpline as suggested.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sure it was a typo, but you need to talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
National Debt Helpline is a commercial firm that tries to look like the real National Debtline to sell people IVAs.
Karen says
Hi, I have a quick question. Cabot bought an old (2007) credit card debt, which I was previously paying £10 per month to, Cabot took over at the end of 2018, and I have continued with the same plan. Now, two plus years later they are saying no agreed payment plan is in place. Would it not be the case that if they have been accepting the payments they have technically agreed to a plan?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
does this debt still show on your credit record? how much do you still owe?
Karen says
Hi Sara
No, it’s not on my credit record, hasn’t been for years, total outstanding is just over 4k
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/.
With such an old credit card debt it is possible Cabot may not be able to produce the CCA agreement in which case you can just stop paying them anything as the debt is no longer enforceable in court.
Karen says
Thanks, I will do that, and come back if I need further advice.
Karen says
Hi Sara
Annoyingly, they found the CCA! Took them five months, they were determined! What is the best next move? I was thinking of making an offer, like 40% or something, just to get them off my back.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So what is the rest of your financial situation like? Do you have other debts you have been making low payments to? They wanted a review of your payments as they think you may be able to pay more than £10 a month… they may not accept any settlement offer until you produce an income & expenditure details.
You could fill out the National Debtline My Budget https://tools.nationaldebtline.org/yourbudget/ and see what that says. If that suggest you can only pay a low amount, then they may accept a settlement offer.
Karen says
Yeah, I figured I might have to do that, we have a few, we got caught out in the 2008 recession! I’ll check that out, thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you ask The others for CCAs?
Karen says
No, I was waiting to see what happened with this one first, now I’m kinda glad I did!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well asking for the CCA hasn’t actually caused you a problem. You are not in a worse position than if you haven’t asked, as Cabot weren’t prepared to carry on taking £10 a month, thinking you could pay more.
The difficulty now is that because you haven’t asked for the CCA for the others, you don’t know if they are enforceable or not… So you need to assume they are when offering an amount to Cabot. Talk to National Debtline if you aren’t sure what to offer.
Delyth says
Not an unaffordable loan query, but just after some advice.
Admiral sold my loan to crs. I set up a repayment plan with them to take the recommended amount in the 16th of every month.
On the 15th March I received a text to say they’d attempted to take payment but I had insufficient funds….it was a day before payday AND the date they were supposed to request it. I rang them and they cancelled the old payment and set up a new one for the 16th (even though it was already supposed to be the 16th).
Come 10pm that night I checked my account to see that two payments had been taken by crs.
I rang them first thing on Monday 16th and they could see the error….described by them as a staff error. And said they’d refund it that day.
I recieved nothing. I chased it to be told it could take 3-5 days to refund into my bank.
It’s now almost 9 days on and I STILL haven’t recieved my money.
This has caused 3 small direct debits to ‘bounce’ at my cost and for my bank account to go over my overdraft, therefore accruing daily charges.
All crs say when I complain (phone and email) is that its on its way and I’ll get it when I get it.
I have complained to admiral re affordability and have mentioned crs putting me into further financial difficulty.
Can I do anything else to prevent charges and a negative impact on my credit rating? I’ve suggested compensation to crs but they don’t comment on that.
Sorry its so long winded. I just can’t believe they’re so incompetent!
Weatherman says
Hi Delyth
What a mess, I’m sorry CRS are messing you around like this!
Their response isn’t good enough. Complain to them in writing, requesting that they refund you the extra payment they took and the bank charges you incurred because of their mistake(s). You can also ask for compensation for the distress etc.
Because the original loan will have been FCA regulated, you should be able to complain to the Financial Ombudsman if CRS don’t resolve the issue to your satisfaction, or don’t respond within 8 weeks (I know that’s a long time, especially if there’s an issue with another payment in the meantime!). If the Ombudsman agrees with you, it can require CRS to take particular action, like refund you or pay compensation, although additional compensation amounts tend to be quite low e.g. £50-150.
If CRS’s ‘recommended’ repayment is causing you financial difficulty even if they were taking them when they should, you can negotiate a more affordable amount. National Debtline can help you to work out what you can realistically afford – and advise if there are other options to deal with this debt. You can call them on 0808 808 4000
Delyth Jones says
Well it gets worse. After emails last week assuring me that the refund was on its way I’ve called today to be told it was processed yesterday afternoon and I need to wait a further 3-5 days.
Complaint submitted to fos.
Thanks for your help.
Christopher says
Hi
I was on a DMP in the UK but have now moved to the Republic of Ireland. I have been informed by the organisation who were helping with my DMP that they can no longer offer the DMP as I have moved out of the UK. They advised me to contact a debt-help company in Ireland, which I have done, but they say that as my debts are in the UK they can’t help me either. Both quoted Brexit and the latter said that the UK’s departure from the EU means some debt-recovery solutions and agreements that were previously in place no longer stand, that enforcement would now be very hard for a UK court and/or debt collector. I am not running away from my debts – why would I engage with the debt-help companies if I were – but I am utterly confused!! Would anyone know what – if any – actions can now be taken against me in the Republic of Ireland by the UK companies/debt collection companies to whom I owe money? Can they take legal action against me in the Republic of Ireland? Nobody seems to know and they keep inferring Brexit is the reason for the confusion…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How many creditors do you have? How long has the DMP been running?
Christopher says
Hi Sara, I think I have 12 creditors with debts totalling about £30k, DMP was running for about a year but I have not made any payments towards it since June of last year (partner lost job due to covid and then when I did try to make a payment the organisation helping me (Stepchange) said they can’t take the payments any more as I no longer live in the UK. Thankfully creditors don’t know where I live or my new phone number and most of them don’t operate in the Republic of Ireland, so I have been spared the hassle of numerous phone calls and letters, thus far…
But I really think someone, be it a debt advice company, government, Cit A, whoever – needs to produce some guidance on how Brexit has changed things, because it has, and I’m sure I’m not the only one who doesn’t know what to do…
Matt B says
I have a redress from the moneyshop for all the loans I took out with them.
However, one was sold to PRAC and is still outstanding.
Because the loan was unaffordable, will this be written off too? As far as I can tell, the full amount owed was over half of what I have paid so far. So the capital has been paid.
Miss L C says
Good Morning, I had a loan with Avant Credit that was then sold to Asset Collections. I have made a complaint to Avant Credit as I believe this debt was unaffordable and therefore shouldn’t have been given to me. I am still waiting to hear from them. Should I be informing Asset collections too or not? I am worried if I do make them aware of the dispute they will proceed with further action to recover the debt. If Avant credit uphold my complaint and agree with me – what will happen next? In regards to Asset collections/my credit file? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you think Asset Collections have your current email address and house address?
Miss L C says
Hi, yes they do. I just checked my information on my online account.
SSean B says
Hi,
I defaulted on a loan with BankOfScotland in April 2016. At the time of defaulting, my balance on the loan account was £1524.10.
They then passed my debt to Moorcroft debt recovery in April 2016.
At this time I was in a lot of debt & this was one of 5 defaults that happened due to being off work sick & I never dealt with my finances well.
A few months later, I set up an agreement with Moorcroft & started paying £50 per month and have been paying this every month since.
I have recently made a DSAR request to BOS & in the information, I can see that the balance they sent to Moorcroft was £3099.38.
Is there any possible reason this would be such a high amount in comparison to what my balance was?
If this is wrong, what should I expect them to do to resolve it? I have already paid off over £2000 to the balance with Moorcroft.
I have asked them to send me a breakdown of where this amount came from as it was not in the DSAR information
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well they may have added some extra charges… but that that sounds like a lot!
Quite right to ask how the 3099 balance arose – get the information before making a complaint.
EC says
Hi, my comment from Dec 29 2020 seems to have been deleted? Regarding a debt collection agency not providing proof of debt but proceeding to court hearing?
Just as an update, they went all the way to the deadline day of the judge requesting evidence submitted for hearing and then they discontinued the case ‘in its entirety’ because they STILL haven’t provided documents to prove this debt. I’ve therefore written to them requesting they remove their default and entry on my credit report but no response – what can I do to stop them doing this and get this Mark off my credit report? They shouldn’t be allowed to do this unless they provide the correct documentation!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s on this other page: https://debtcamel.co.uk/court-claim-form/comment-page-2/#comment-401831
You wrote to Hoist? Then email them at contactus@hoistfinance.com with COMPLAINT in the subject line as ask why they have not replied. Say you will be sending your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman in 8 weeks if they have not agreed to remove the default.
You need to emphasise that it is so long ago you have no memory of the debt and they have been unable to produce any paperwork about it. You can also add that if there was a valid debt – which you dispute – then the default date should have been more than 6 years ago so it should not be on the credit record.
Justin says
Hi Sara
I have just read somewhere in news items, posts or replies that debts should not be sold to a DCA if there a certain health issues, I cannot find it now! Where is it located????
This may help in my Ombudsman case against AvantCredit (despite AvantCredit finally admitting it was unaffordable and removing interest charges and giving me the 8% stat int), which despite my other posts I am still pursuing further regardless at Ombudsman level. This may explain why ACI wrote off all the interest charged even prior to any complaint or the total write off that has since occurred, as they realised they should have never bought the debt from AvantCredit.
If you can let me know it will be another form of the armoury for the latest of many many battles.
Thanks
Justin
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t tell what you were looking at.
The Lending Standards Code says that a debt should not be sold if the lender is aware the customer has mental health problems or a critical illness or is terminally ill. Most banks and credit card lenders follw this code. Not all lenders do,
And in any case, this is a reason to complain to the original lender, not the debt purchaser. It would not be a reason for a debt purchaser to write off a debt.
Also in many cases with bad credit lenders,a debt collector is a LOT nicer to deal with than the original lender…
Justin says
I have found Asset Collection Investigations (ACI) to be much more amenable than AvantCredit (AVC) themselves in dealing with issues of fairness and such the like…they are easier to get hold of for a start. I through a complaint about affordability at the time with AVC, held off paying ACI anything from June 2017 until around December 2018 or so, then at £1.00 a go (per month) whilst I re-raised a complaint with AVC, due to this and (AVC) finally admitting the loan was unaffordable. Also, various other factors including up the fact that ACI offered up to 50% payment of total o/s bal as a settlement figure in the years when debt was first sold, which they have now voluntarily written off my remaining balance. I would suggest at first instance asking for ACI to supply you with a copy of the credit agreement….then waiting and see what happens. There a certain time limits they have for this and if they do not comply this will help your case(s). Then maybe do a full Data Subject Access Request (DSAR) with both ACI but especially with AvantCredit, this may shed some light on affordability and credit issue matters (if there are or were any at the time you were applied)), that AVC should have taken note of when giving a loan out but failed to do so. Make sure you are sending your complaint to applicationcomplaints@avantcredit.co.uk and not any other address as they try to wriggle out when you use the usual complaints email address.
Liam Gorman says
I defaulted on a loan in 2013. The loan has since left my Credit files. In 2014 the lender wrote to me to say they had made a mistake as “letters were issued in error with some financial information omitted” during my financial difficulties. They reduced the debt by approx £800 (didn’t offer me an alternative). The debt was then sold to Moorcroft. In the letter I have it says “the loan has been written off, however, this means that interest and charges have been frozen and not that the debt has been cleared”. Since then I have been paying £5pm to Moorcroft but the debt is still just under 7k. I don’t understand how a debt can be “written off” yet that still stands. ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can ask the lender (who was it?) but it may just be a poorly worded letter.
Was the loan unaffordable from the start?
Do you have other problem debts? What is your current financial situation?
Liam Gorman says
Hi Sara
It was Nationwide. The loan was unaffordable and I did raise that but they didn’t accept that. I had HUGE problem debts at the time and (incredibly) got the loan. I then defaulted.
My current situation is better in that I have a very good credit file BUT I have several defaulted debts that I manage modestly with Debt management companies. £5pm
Kate says
Hi, Sara,
I would be grateful for your advice. I defaulted on two loans with PayDay Express (I think – or one of the other Moneyshop ones) and it was sold to PRA Group. I am aware that the lender is now in administration, and there is an arrangement being put in place, but I assume that this does not apply to debt sold to a third party. PRA just send me vague emails advising me how I can “manage my account” and haven’t specifically asked for payments. The original defaults were in 2013, and, as far as I can recall, I haven’t made payments to PRA or anyone else since (this might not be right, though).
Am I correct in thinking that these are likely statue barred (they don’t appear on any of my credit files as far as I can see) and that, if I contact PRA, this could reset the clock on them? Am I OK to keep ignoring the emails? (It’s only ever emails) Or can I ask for specifics, without acknowledging the debt? What would you advise?
TIA for any help or suggestions (I am certain that, had checks been done, I would not have been made the loans, though, in both cases, I am pretty sure I am likely to still owe some of the principal as well as interest: I had multiple other payday loans at the same time, and defaults from about six months previously) – it’s really appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you make a claim to the Money Shop Scheme?
you seem rather vague about the debts. It can be hard to be absolutely sure they are statute barred but they are getting pretty old!
ignoring may be sensible bout do read the emails and don’t ignore if they start threatening court action – thaty would be the time to enquire about the loans, say they are statute barred and ask for copies of the CCA agreement.
Fred says
Hi Sara,
Wondered if I could get your advice,
I have a very bizzare issue with a catalogue company.
They made a massive mistake in december and sold my account to a DCA, I was never behind in payments etc and used it normaly. Had a temporary freeze cause of covid, After fighting for several months with them with multiple departments I spoke to the head office of this catalouge company and they finally seemed to resolve it. they bought the account back, I paid off the balance as I was sick of this as they gave me £100 compenstation.
you’d think that would be the end of it. However last week this DCA has now added the account to my credit file. I am absolutely livid, altough the account isn’t in default etc. I do not want their name on my credit file whatsoever. I went back to the catalouge and they are doing all the can to fix it but it’s not exactly swift. I complainted to this DCA and they have just come back with the standard 8 weeks to reply nonsence.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you are doing the right thing – and ask for more compensation.
Fred says
Can you believe it’s got worse.
The DCA now has put a late payment marker on my credit file. Despite them saying they would remove the entries.
I have had 6 months of hell with these clowns. Any steps on what I can do to escalate this further. I am thinking of getting legal advice.
The company is JD Williams and Debt manager services. I have gone to the very top of both organisations and they keep messing me around.
Need it removed ASAP so going to the ombudsman will probably take 2 years from what I have been reading lately.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you tried email dan.joy@nbrown.co.uk ?
Fred says
I have been in touch with the GCC directors by emailing Steve Johnson.
They did call me back keep telling me they are doing all they can but told me to wait 28 days for it to be fixed
I was told debt managers would ring me today but they haven’t. It’s a complete joke really.
In my new complaint about this they just try to fix the problem they ignore my requests for full explanations or compensation. So I guess ombudsman for that really. This has been 6 Months of hell
Rebecca2411 says
Hello,
I just wondered if anyone had been in a similar situation with a payday loan (originally from sunny) being sold to SLL capital? Sunny have now agreed they lent this irresponsibility within their claims portal which I have told SLL but they continue to chase me for the debt and I wondered if there is anything I can do at all to either stop this or reduce the amount owing?
Thank you for a fab site
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/no-set-off-scheme-administration-debt-sold/ which looks at this situation.
Rebecca2411 says
Perfect thank you Sara :-)
Jane says
Hello Sara,
We came off our DMP a couple of years ago and opting to pay outstanding debts only to creditors who were able to produce the CCAs. My husband had a debt with Monument credit card which was taken on by CARS representing Jefferson Capital International. In September 2019 they confirmed in writing that they couldn’t produce the CCA as they were advised by their client that ‘this being historical data older than 6 months, the data has been erased’, therefore we deemed it unenforceable.
A letter came this morning from MoriartyLaw saying that that they had been instructed to recover the balance, saying ‘we can share a copy of the agreement terms if you would like to see it’, and ‘if the matter remains unresolved and our client instructs us to do so, we will at an appropriate time in due course commence county court proceedings if the debt remains unpaid. JC International Acquisition LLC wishes to resolve the matter amicably either by agreeing a reasonable repayment plan or by using an Alternative Dispute Resolution procedure’. No mention of the fact that it is unenforceable.
I’m concerned that this appears to be from a law firm. Please can you tell me what you think I should do? Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that you have previously asked for a copy of the CCA agreement and was told it could not be produced. Ask if this has now changed, in which case you would like to see the CCA agreement.
Jane says
Hello again Sara – we were about to send a letter back to them today asking for a copy of the CCA and have had another letter come through today half way through the 30 days they said we had to reply. They’re saying if no offer of payment or settlement is agreed within 16 days of this letter, they will issue court proceedings to recover the sum due. If we don’t respond ‘we have been instructed to issue proceedings in the county court’ and we would incur court fees, solicitor fees and interest – the amounts are detailed in the letter. I have in writing the fact that CARS couldn’t supply the credit agreement from 2019. I thought after this had happened, by law they had to acknowledge that the debt is unenforceable when asking for payment, or doesn’t this apply if the debt has been sold on again?
I don’t know how to deal with this company, Moriarty Law – it’s making me very anxious as they are so threatening and are making me doubt what I thought I knew. But I have Googled them and they seem to be a very aggressive debt collector. Please can you help Sara. Feeling very stressed :(
ANTHONY TOWNSEND says
Dear Jane,
I had a similar situation to yours regarding the original C.C.A. production.
My understanding is that if the Creditor cannot produce the original C.C.A, then County Court Action, if defended and the C.C.A. requested at the time of returning The Response Pack, such proceedings cannot result in a C.C.J.
There is a very good section on Legal Beagles on this with posts by a specialist C.C.A. Solicitor.
I’ll try to find the relevant articles for you.
Hope you achieve a good outcome.
Regards,
Tony T.
Jane says
Thank you very much Tony – I will have a look.
Many thanks
Jane
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The letter you received on May 26 – what was the heading of the letter?
Jane says
No heading on the one dated May 26th. On the follow up letter dated 3/6 the heading is ‘Final Demand Before Proceedings’. Should I still just ask for a copy of the CCA? Can they take us to court without it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you received a letter with a lot of attachments, one headed Reply Ford?
Jane says
Yes there are a lot of forms attached to the original letter under the heading Reply Forms
Just wondering if we should start paying something again even if they haven’t got the CCA just to stop this action?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Right, read https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ which coves what this letter is and how to complete the reply Form. Read it ALL but note especially the section The creditor doesn’t have the written agreement about how to ask for the CCA form.
If you are not clear how to complete the form from that, phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and ask for their help.
At this stage they are saying they intend to go to court and may not stop even if you offer a monthly payment. It is essential you get that Reply Form back within the 30 days and that you ask them to send you the CCA agreement.
I know the previous creditor said they couldn’t produce the CCA agreement but you cannot reply on that now. Don’t waste time trying to convince ML they should not have sent you this. And don’t send off the normal letter asking for the CCA agreement – use the Reply Form.
Keep a copy of the Reply Form and send it back by recorded delivery.
Rachel says
I posted a few months ago that PRAC had been sold my payday express loan. The original debt defaulted on 3/10/2016 but shows as in arrears each month on my file, as reported by PRAC. You advised me to contact ICL as my claim had been upheld for the original loan. I had expected the redress amount to pay off the debt with PRAC as per the decision in principle letter ICL sent me.
ICL replied today to say they can’t do anything about the debt and redress is not being paid to debt companies who have bought the debt. I’m now left with a default date not recorded on my file that nobody will correct, a debt thats been upheld as misold but I still owe and years of missed payment markers on my file.
I’m desperate to get this removed from my file or atleast get the correct default added but I don’t know where to go now. I can pay the debt but I want to do this in the best way to reduce the negative record on my file. Please can you help and advise next steps
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/no-set-off-scheme-administration-debt-sold/ which looks at this situation.
Rachel says
Hi Sara, ICL have now paid out my £69 redress. PRAC have said they can’t add the original default date so its going to be another 6 years on my credit file. Can I push for PRAC to use the original default date from the original lender (now in administration).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what default date did ICL use?
is there any default date on the PRAC record?
Do you still owe PRAC a balance?
Rachel says
Default date was 3/10/16. Theres no default date on the PRAC record it say ‘in arrears’. I still owe PRAC (was under the impression that the redress would cover it until recent updates). I’m more than happy to pay the full balance but want the default date on there so it drops off 2022, rather than another 6 years
PRAC emailed me acknowledging the original default date too but say they can’t add it to their record
Sara (Debt Camel) says
PRAC have to use the default date that the original creditor used. Send them a complaint in writing (email is fine) and ask them to do this. enclose something that shows what the default date from ICL was. If this is on your current credit record you need to urgently take a copy of that and keep it safe, as ICL may delete credit records.
BUT you can also ask PRAC to set off the rest of the redress you should ghave had from ICL against your balance. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/no-set-off-scheme-administration-debt-sold/
Rachel says
Thanks Sara, I’ve asked them to off set the redress without success (now made complaint to ombudsman).
I’ve made a formal complaint to PRAC asking for the original default date to be added and they responded with this ‘We confirm that PRAC Financial report the last known status from the original creditor prior to the sale of the debt on 9 December 2016, this is because PRAC Financial continue to report the same agreement in place as the original creditor with the same repayment arrangement. This prevents another entry which will show on your credit file for another 6 years. Please note that any arrangement in place is to repay the outstanding balance and does not replace the original terms of the credit agreement. Therefore it is appearing on your credit file as arrears. Please note that should you wish to dispute this please contact your credit reference agency.’
Prac have emailed to say the default date is 3/10/16. I’m just lost on where to go with this
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so PRAC say the default is in 2016 but you are saying your credit record does not show that?
Rachel says
Yes Sara, they’ve confirmed in writing via email to say the default date was 3/10/2016. But this is not on their entry anywhere it just says ‘in arrears’ with no default
Thanks for your time with this, I’ve nowhere else to go, I really appreciate this.
I’ve sent them the actual email that they sent me but they just keep me going round in circles and never changing anything
Sara (Debt Camel) says
SO reply to them with a copy of your credit record. Say you want that corrected or you will be sending a complaint about that to the Ombudsman too.
Rachel says
I just want to say a huge thank you Sara for all of your help and advice. Today PRAC agreed to remove the entry from my credit record completely.
Joan says
I received a letter from NCO Europe with the first letter of my first name spelled wrong. The letter is to offer a settlement plan for a debt passed on by a different debt collector. I’ve never had a credit card or purchased anything on credit. I checked on all three credit rating agencies’ website and there isn’t anything relate to this debt. What should I do, can I just ignore this letter? This is the first time I hear from them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t suggest you ignore this. As you are sure this debt is not yours, it is better to send them a Prove It letter, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/prove-it/
Shaun says
Hi Sara
I’ve a current situation where I’m paying Moorcroft group £80 a month off a loan they bought off Satsuma, I believe, I was mid sold.
I’ve got a current affordability complaint in against satsuma, with them being the ones who sold on the debt, am I entitled to ask for at least the charges and interest back off this loan as a minimum as well as previous loans on top?
Also, thank you for your help with the information on this website. I’ve managed to get multiple claims accepted and wouldn’t have been able to without this advice.
Kind regards
Shaun
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how many previous loans did you have from them?
how large was this loan, and how much have you paid so far?
Slk says
Hello,
I have credit card debit, the cab sent me some one to deal with and spoke to the credit card company but didn’t give me useful information I needed. Said I needed a medical report to get written off on medical ground. But what dose this report need to contain all I I get in repsonce.
She also didn’t understand me so I got fed up with talking to her so I just gave up in 2018.
I’ve asked my gp to fill out DMHEF for my mental health would this be satisfactory.
I contact step change they inform me that my pips would take into account with my income. I use this money to pay for care and travel by taxi as I have mental health and autism. I’ve not laid for care during lockdown as not suppose to go out
Can you advise me if DMHEF is sufficient for medical report
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are your debts?
What is your housing situation?
Slk says
Hi
I am council tennent and it’s £ 5401.
That my current situation
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you just have the one debt, to the credit card company? Or are there other debts as well?
In your situation it can often be simpler to get a Debt Relief Order which will wipe out your debts, rather than try to get the lenders to write them off. You could talk to National Debtline about this on 0808 808 4000.
Slk says
Hi
Just the 1 credit card debit
Slk
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then is it worth trying to get this written off. The DMHEF form leaves it up to the medical professional filing it in what to say – could you explain to your GP that it needs to talk about how difficult you find to make money decisions and how the stress of the debt is badly impacting you.
But if the creditor says No, then a DRO is probably a good option for you.
Slk says
Hi
Can you help of I was to off settlement payment to credit card how much do I offer on balence of £5402 as I don’t quite know how to work out or how much to offer
Slk
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It would be better to ask for a write off first!
How much money do you have saved up?
Slk says
Hi
I offered£1000 said could accept offer too low
Also they keep insisted that sold my debit to debit collection agency step change. I know that step change are a charity but insisted so I had to call to speak to a different departments and different agent who said debit still with Barclay card .
Delyth says
I had a loan with creation. I defaulted on repayments and the debt was sold to moorcroft. Since going to the fos with my complaint moorcroft have given the debt back to creation (its not clear if I have had charges added to cover this yet). Creation have now written to me to request the outstanding balance in full. I can’t afford to pay it back in one go (I was paying 150pm to moorcroft, with just over £6000 remaining).
I intend on contacting fos to inform them of the update, but do I contact creation to set up a repayment plan in the meantime?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large was the loan and how much have you repaid so far?
Is £150 aminth affordable?
Delyth says
Hi Sara,
I took a £10000 loan out with them in March 2018. I believe there was around £4000 added in interest, but possibly more (they refused to email my documents so I have them in a file but am unable to get to them at the moment)
I was paying £286.38pm which became unmanageable with other debts at the time but I paid in full every month.
In november 2019I contacted them as I was struggling to meet the repayments. They set up a repayment plan of £50pm for 3 months, but in March 2020 I paid the full monthly repayment of £286.38 again. However due to the arrears they sold my account to moorcroft in March 2020…..my first payment to moorcroft of £150 was made on the 29th May 2020. This continued without default/missed payments each month until May 2021 when moorcroft gave my debt back to creation. Creation are now chasing the full payment.
I hope that makes sense?
The fos have had the case for a number of months, but hasn’t yet progressed. I’m just worried about what to do next….offer installments or wait for fos?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, I can’t tell exactly how much you have paid to them – could you go through and add it all up?
If it is more then 10k, then you know if you win the complaint then the balance would be cleared.
But it sounds as though you still have a couple of thousand to go?
In this situation it may be a good idea to offer an affordable amount now until you have actually paid the 10k.
Linz says
I’m hoping someone can help me?
I’ve had a letter from NCO Europe today I’m confused as my first name is spelt in correctly and it uses my maiden name
I’ve always used my married name from my current address
I check my credit report periodically and have no debt listed at the figure they are stating
Could this be a scam
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does it say who the original creditor was and what sort of debt it was?
Linz says
Hi sarah
Thank you for your speedy response
Original creditor is Arrow Global
No mention as to the type of debt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Arrow Global is not a lender, they are a debt collector too.
I suggest you reply to them that you have no knowledge of what this alleged debt is. Say if they can inform of you of the original lender, the type of debt and the year it was taken out, that may help you to recall it.
hannah says
Hello
sorry i have been given this information before but I cant seem to find the template to use for contacting debt collectors ( SLL capital) from a debt from Sunny (Who are now in administration and i was given an option to claim through this as they were unaffordable and irresponsible)
i want to challenge them on this and Sunny arent taking this on board. Could someone please direct me to the template
thanks Sara for everything you do :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/no-set-off-scheme-administration-debt-sold/
seems so long ago says
Hi, any advice you could give would be much appreciated.
I’ve got a c £1k debt from an overdraft, defaulted in Nov 17, now sold to Hoist.
I want to pay this debt but also to try and get the default removed or at least pushed back in time.
I realise this won’t be easy, but should I have this discussion with Halifax, Hoist, or both? I asked Halifax today, and they didn’t seem to know!
For background – from 2013-7 life was messy, i moved, my CRA shows the OD sat there unmoving til mid 17 at which point charges suddenly started being applied, quickly pushing me into unauthorised OD & within 4 months Halifax defaulted it.
BUT I received no paperwork, warning, offer of arrangement, despite having my current address (because I submitted a general ‘lost accounts’ query in March 2017 which did result in a hit from Halifax ). Halifax claimed today they sent letters in July 2017, but were vague about to where – I definitely didn’t get these letters (I’ve kept *everything*). I’ve submitted a SAR today.
But I’m not sure how much difference any of this makes? Is there a legal requirement for notice – or just good practice? Would I have a better chance of just throwing myself on their mercy – Halifax? Hoist? OR should I perhaps argue Halifax should have put my account – which wasn’t getting any payments in for several years, I’m sure therefore in breach of t&cs – into default *sooner*, and therefore ask them to push the date back?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is odd that they didn’t apply overdraft charges for 4 years! But obviously that is in your favour.
You probably haven’t breached any T&Cs by not paying into the account, you can ask Halifax to put the default date back but I would be surprised if they agree. Hoist won’t – they just have to use the default date that Halifax uses.
There isn’t a legal obligation to tell you before adding a default to the account but it is good practice.
N says
Hi could I get some advice please, ACI have a debt of mine from uncle Buck, when I was first contacted the amount was £132, I set up a payment plan of £5 a month, paid £25 but the amount owed is still £127, I spoke to them and they told me they are adding interest?! Is this correct please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how much did you borrow? how much have you paid to it (to UB or to ACI) so far?
Steve says
Hi had a letter from Moorcroft about a credit card debt from Halifax for about £8,000 pound
I sent back a letter for proof of debt and asking for the CCA with a £1 post office order
Just got back a letter saying “Thank for your recent payment of a pound”
No mention of the CCA just ring or make a payment on the website
Then they say If we don’t agree a payment arrangement with you we may need to continue to contact you by phone or letter
What should be my next move on this
Regards
Steve
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the letter asking for the CCA – did that use the words in this template https://www.nationaldebtline.org/sample-letters/information-about-your-agreement-under-consumer-credit-act/?
Do moorcroft own the debt or are they collecting on behalf of Halifax?
when did you last make a payment to this debt?
STEVE says
Hi Sara
Yes that is the template I used
Halifax say they are collecting it for them and the last payment made to the Halifax was August 2020
Moorcroft are not bombarding me with calls or letters at this time e Will Moorcroft find the CCA and get it from the Halifax .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Very probably, asking a debt collector for the CCA usually only works when the debt collector has bought the debt – often in that situation the original lender won’t supply the CCA. But here Halifax want to help Moorcroft as they are collecting money for them.
Can you make any payments to this? Do you have other problem debts?
STEVE says
Hi Sara
Yes should be able to make a small payment a month to them, but at the moment unemployed so will have to be when I restart work.
I owe other debts to PRA but they can not find my CCA and thats been over 4 months now. Barclaycard been in default for over a year and have not heard anything from them? Should I wait for a CCA from Moorcroft before I pay them?
Thanks for your help Sara
Steve
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You may as well wait for the CCA now. Remind Moorcroft you haven’t paid a payment to the debt, you have just paid the £1 fee for your CCA request.
Jack A says
Morning Sara,
Capquest (acting on behalf of Arrow Global) called me a few months ago saying I owed money to Lloyds Banking Group from 2016. I have no recollection of ever having a LBG account of any description so asked them to prove it.
They have come back to me saying “Lloyds banking group have not been able to provide the statements that you have requested as they no longer hold them on their systems. If you want to talk to us or need further assistance please call us on ……”
Upon receiving this call a few months ago I checked my credit file and see that there is both a default from LBG and Arrow Global which I obviously want to remove especially as I think this isn’t related to me.
How should I reply to them to get them remove these marks on my file but also to stop chasing me for this alleged debt?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send Lloyds a complaint (https://www.lloydsbank.com/contact-us/how-to-complain.html – you will have to phone or send a letter) saying that there is a credit record for a debt to them showing on your credit record – attach a screen shot of that. Say you do not recall ever having an account with them and ask them to remove the record and inform Arrow who they sold the debt to that this is not your debt.
Tell Arrow this is not your debt and you are disputing it with Lloyds.
Michael Blunt says
About 10 years ago I moved to Spain to open a business, things didn´t go well and I run into financial trouble and ended up in a large amount of debt, during this time maxed out my UK Barclay card and under a mountain of other more pressing debts it got forgotten about.
In October 2020 the occupants of my old UK address forwarded me some mail from Robinson way and hoist finance, demanding I make a settlement, I subsequently sent them both a recorded letter, with a one-pound UK postal order, requesting the CCA report. I followed all the guidelines on here and I also informed them that I was no longer living in the UK and sent proof of my address and residential (tax registered etc) status in Spain, I heard nothing from them, then out of the blue, in May 2020, at my old UK address, was the CCA report as so much time had passed I did nothing.
Now, this week I have had an email from hoist finance telling me that I still had time to accept the offer to settle at a discount. I have never had any offers or correspondence from them since I have been in Spain
I have replied to the email, asking for confirmation on what debt they were offering me a settlement on, and informed that I have no contact from them since moving to Spain, even after sending the recorded letter with all my contacts details.
What should my next move be, I am in no position to repay the full amount they are seeking.
This debt first went into default in September 2015
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is the rest of your financial situation? Do you own a property in the UK or in Spain? Do you have other problem debts?
How low is their settlement offer?
Rose scott says
Hi some advice please, getting a mortgage at the min and a condition was that I paid off a debt to capital one and it hadn’t been passed to debt collectors. I paid off in full with capital one on 16th June, then on 22nd June they sold it to Lowell’s with a zero balance. So my credit file will be marked. Just wondered how they can sell a paid debt a week after it is paid and then put it on my file it was sent to debt collectors when I didn’t owe anything. I have now not got the mortgage and will either have to have a higher rate interest mortgage or lose the house. Any advice this doesn’t seem right.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who was the mortgage lender? “Not being sold to a debt collector” was a very strange requirement.
Just wondered how they can sell a paid debt a week after it is paid and then put it on my file it was sent to debt collectors when I didn’t owe anything.
Debts aren’t sold individually. Cap One would have offered Lowell a big bundle of debts, Lowell would have looked through and then offered a price, Cap One accept and the transaction takes place. In the meantime your debt has been closed, but it was still in the bundle.
This isn’t normally a problem as selling a debt does not hurt your credit record.
Rose says
Hi
It’s Chelsea building society (my current provider) but looking to move upwards and borrow more.
I don’t get how they can sell a debt when it is paid and then register that it was sold on my credit file comments.
Thanks Sara for your response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t get how they can sell a debt when it is paid and then register that it was sold on my credit file comments.
Because you cleared your debt after it had already been put in a bundle of debts to be sold. What the lender did has not impacted your credit score. I have no idea why Chelsea are fussed about whether a debt was sold or not.
I suggest you back to them and say the debt had already been cleared and it is unreasonable of them to refuse you a mortgage because a cleared debt was accidentally sold.
Bruno says
Hi Sara and everyone,
I just came here to thank you all for this wonderful community that helped me get my life back on track.
I had severe financial difficulties at the end of 2017 and ended up with loans and credit cards defaulting and a total of £29,890 in debt. It seemed to be an impossible mountain to climb but today I have managed to do a final payment that has made me officially debt free for the first time since 2013.
This is a wonderful feeling and was made possible due to the excellent advice I found in this community that helped me know my rights so I could begin to “fight back” and resolve the issues.
Thank you again Sara and I hope everyone out there who are struggling today realise that it IS possible to get out of this situation. Perseverance, everyone.
Cheers, Bruno
Sara (Debt Camel) says
thanks for sharing your story Bruno!
Michael says
I took out an overdraft in nov 1974. Fully fluctuating. Around 2005 we turned this sole account into a joint account with my wife. We defaulted in 2017 when rate doubled. Entered into a dmp with bank. Bank sold debt around 2019 and we entered into a dmp with the purchaser. What documentation does the creditor need to make this debt enforceable against one or both of us?
Debt is c.£9000. We live in England.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What does “fully fluctuating” mean?
What was the overdraft limit? And was this increased too high when the bank should have been able to see you were in difficulty?
Michael says
Fully fluctuating means it went at times to zero . In this case on many occasions.
The limit was always £10000. This was always adhered to. My moan with the bank was its doubling to an unaffordable rate out of the blue after many years. The limit was affordable at the time it was set up. Very adverse sudden circumstances caused the problem much later.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok then I suggest you send the bank (not the debt collector) a complaint saying that when they increased the overdraft fees, they failed to check that the overdraft would continue to be affordable to you. – this was not treating you fairly And you should have been offered the option of repaying the balance at the old fee rate. Ask for them to refund all fees charged after that point, remove the negative mark from your credit record.
To answer your question, there is no specific account paperwork such as the CCA agreement that has to be produced for an overdraft to be enforceable. I suggest you make an arrangement to repay it at an affordable rate – talk to a debt adviser about this if you arr Unsure,have other debts or are behind with priority bills.
Michael says
Thank you for such a prompt reply and being so helpful
Sam says
Hello Sara, my overdraft debt of £1100 has been sold to Link debt collectors.
Their solicitors sent me a Letter of Claim which I completed and sent back within the timeframe.
Shortly after, I made a final settlement offer of £200 but Link rejected it.
I am on Universal Credit and only have £9 spare every month after essential bills and food.
Link want me to complete an income and expenditure form so they can assess my affordability even though I have told them this information in an email.
To avoid them taking court action, can I make payment of £1 every month and email them informing I wil be doing this, or is it a requirement for me to complete an income and expenditure form and await their figure?
I really do not want a CCJ so would appreciate any help please!
Thank you, Sam
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this the only debt you have that you are not paying? Are you behind with any bills at the moment?
Sam says
Yes, I have other debt (credit cards) which I am not making any payment towards as I cannot afford to.
All these accounts have been sold to debt collectors and one of the accounts is also with Link, so they know I have other debt besides this overdraft debt!
I am also behind with the water bill.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your debt options.
Although you could offer them £1 a month, they may not accept it unless you provide an income & expenditure sheet. National Debtline can help you draw one up that will take account of all your debts – there is no point in offering all your spare money to one creditor because then when the next one pops up you have nothing left to offer.
Sam says
Thank you for your help with this – I shall get on to it asap.
Ben says
SSE PLC placed a default on my files at Experian and Transunion in October 2016 for an unpaid final bill from March 2015 – the first I had had with them as I switched away immediately on moving in and was only signed up to them by the managing agent of the flat. I received a letter in January this year saying my account had been passed to Lowell to manage and “Lowell is now the data controller of this account under the Data Protection Act 2018”. In May this year I fully paid the £135 debt, satisfying the default and Lowell said that they would now report this to the credit reference agencies. SSE PLC continued to report the account in default of £135, until last month when the default disappeared completely from my Transunion file. On Experian, however, SSE PLC continued to report the default unsatisfied. I queried this both with Lowell (in July) and with Experian (this month). Experian contacted SSE and were told that the default was correct, unsettled, and I should contact Lowell! I’m still waiting to hear back from Lowell. Should the debt have been changed on my credit report to Lowell when the debt was transferred to them last December especially since they are now apparently the “data controller”? Are SSE allowed to continue reporting it inaccurately if they’ve passed the account on and my account with them is “now closed”?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As Lowell bought sold the account, Lowell should be reporting it instead. And they should report the same to both CRAs. Tell Lowell to sort this out.
BUT are you saying you didn’t pay anything to SSE at all? In that case, SSE should add a default back in late 2015… and lowell should use that default date…. and th4e default will drop off later this year when it is 6 years old.
Ben says
I keep asking Lowell and for some reason they keep needing to go back to SSE.
I made a payment of £20 to Southern Electric in August 2021 as I was asked to make a payment while complaining about the amount as it was not based on the meter readings I gave when I switched (they told me I had to take this up with the new company). As I understand it, energy companies seem to be able to enter defaults at will whenever they consider that the account has ‘broken down’, and they’re not covered by the same terms as credit cards.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes but if you have switched accounts, the account has clearly broken down!
Send SSE a complaint about this.
Ben says
Thanks, I will try to follow your advice (that should have said August 2015 on my previous comment!)
Ben says
I had success with this! Lowell eventually (SSE were absolutely awful throughout) managed to get SSE to transfer the account to them, and did not open a new default meaning to all intents and purposes, I no longer have a default. Mortgage companies that wouldn’t lend previously (Skipton) now will and my Experian credit score went up to 998!
Thanks for your help.
Alicia says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for your guidance.
I had a direct debit set up for monthly minimum payments for a credit card I had. After 3 missed payments, the account was defaulted, but it has since come to my attention that the credit card company had cancelled and reinstated the direct debit on 3 separate occasions throughout 2 months without my knowledge or permission. The first missed payment, for example, was only missed because the company reinstated the direct debit almost a week after the usual payment date (I was still unaware of its cancellation at this point) and although I can admit I should have had the money in my account regardless, I wonder if I have grounds to complain about the irresponsible cancellations of my direct debit? Do they have free rein to do this without alerting me?
Kind regards,
Alicia
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The first missed payment, for example, was only missed because the company reinstated the direct debit almost a week after the usual payment date
So your bank statements would show that you had the money in your account to pay the DD on the original date but it was not collected?
If that is correct, I suggest you put in a complaint to the lender, attach all your bank statements as proof, and say you would like them to remove the defaults so your credit score has not been affected by this.
Alicia says
Yes, correct – when the very first payment was missed, I had enough money in my account on the original date. This wasn’t the case for the following (and final) 2 missed payments, though.
The debt has since been sold to a debt collector – do I still contact the lender first in this case?
What will them removing the default mean for the money owed? Does the removal of a default also remove the obligation to pay or would I still need to set up a payment plan with the debt collectors?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you didn’t have the money to pay the next two payments that is a much weaker case. So this was a while ago? Have you been Paying since those messed up months?
Alicia says
I didn’t have the money because other DDs had come out since – had the first DD not been tampered with, my balance would have always been sufficient for this particular DD’s amount on each original due date going forward. I was living pay check to pay check at the time.
I made a lump-sum payment to cover the missed payments after the third month but my account was still closed anyway. Yes, it was a while ago but correspondence was put on hold over lockdown. I have only recently been contacted by the debt collectors asking for payment again (I last heard from them about a year ago but have never paid/spoken to them directly). I’m wondering if I have a case here.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK then definitely complain to the original lender. Enclose your bank statements to prove you could have paid the amounts on the original dates. Ask for the negative marks to be removed on your credit record.
Send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman if the original lender rejects it.
Michael says
I am in a dmp with a debt collector. Up to date. Debt over 6 years old. They have done two searches, one entitled Affordability , the other Debt Collection. The debt is obviously off my file being so old, but these searches let the cat out of the bag and in effect confirm its existance. Are they allowed to do this de facto disclosure?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes they are entitled to check your credit record.
Jane says
Hello Sara
We were on a DMP but came off after a number of years and are just paying the creditors who could provide credit agreements. Most others rarely get in touch but IDEM are quite persistent. Their letters never acknowledge the debt is unenforceable which I believe they should? We have told them that once they produce the CCA, we will of course carry on paying the remainder of the debt. I’m confused because they have come back with a letter basically saying they can’t get hold of it and if we want it, WE should try and get hold of it. I have just received a letter on their behalf from Hoist Finance who say their team will ‘determine if a home visit may help to reconnect with us’ I don’t like this at all and no mention as ever of the debt being unenforceable. How do you think I should respond to them? Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You probably already know this, but to be clear – you should NOT ask the original lender for the CCA agreement. You don’t want the agreement itself, you want the current creditor to produce it.
I suggest you send Hoist an email to contactus@hoistfinance.com with COMPLAINT as the subject, copied to IDEM.
Say you requested that they produce a copy of the CCA agreement for the debt in [month you asked for it]. You were sent a letter from [IDEM or Hoist] dated dd/mm/yy saying they could not supply this. Can they confirm that this debt is unenforceable until they do supply it? Point out that CONC 13.1.6 (4) says that when someone has made a request for a copy of their CCA agreement and it cannot be found, all future requests for payment from a creditor should make it clear that the debt is unenforceable, but the communications you are getting from IDEM do not mention this. Ask them to confirm that these misleading communications will stop.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
PS a debt collector has no more right to enter your house than the postman or a charity collector. You don’t even have to open the door. They are very likely bluffing and just hoping to scare you into paying. Why would they waste money sending someone to visit you?
Jane says
Thank you Sara – no I would never contact the original creditor – I’m just surprise they even suggest it. Thank you for your advice as always.
Jane says
Hello again Sara – thank you for your advice. The same thing has happened with a different account. I wrote to IDEM with the heading COMPLAINT and used the wording you suggested and we’re waiting to hear back from them but I have just received a follow up letter from ResolveCall who said if we don’t contact IDEM in 7 days this may lead to a visit. I think it may have crossed over with the complaint email I sent to IDEM but should I do anything more about this letter? Should I escalate the complaint somehow? Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So it hasn’t quite been 8 weeks since your complaint?
Jane says
Actually we complained originally in October 2020 and they have sent us a shirty email basically wondering why we’re still complaining when they acknowledged then that the debt was unenforceable back then, but since then have continued to send all communications not mentioning that the debt is unenforceable and now threatening to send ResolveCall round.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then in that case your complaint should not be asking them to confirm the debt is already enforceable as they have agreed it is.
Instead complain that CONC 13.1.6 (4) says that when someone has made a request for a copy of their CCA agreement and it cannot be found, all future requests for payment from a creditor should make it clear that the debt is unenforceable. Ask them to stop sending you letters and emails that do not acknowledge this.
Tell ResolveCall that Hoist have confirmed the debt is unenforceable so you will not be making any payments to it. Tell them if they visit your house you will not let them in.
Michael says
I understand that debts fall off a credit report after 6 years regardless of status. Where does this principle come from? I have been told its not the law. Is it just a convention?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is part of the agreement between the users of the credit reporting systems. See https://secureservercdn.net/160.153.137.210/mb9.87b.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Principles-for-the-Reporting-of-Arrears-Arrangements-and-Defaults-at-Credit-Reference-Agencies-vesrion-2a-final.pdf
which says:
“The fact that the account was previously in default will remain on your credit file for 6 years from the date of default. If the account was not in default, the record would remain on your credit file for 6 years from the date of closure.”
Michael says
Thank you.
That was very interesting.
Carolyn lowe says
I have a few defaulted debts on my credit file , they were fraudulent and opened by an ex partner in my name , I’ve emailed the debt collection companies for months now explaining the situation but they are choosing to ignore and keep sending the demands
I have received an offer of a huge reduction to settle the debt , I’m tempted to pay as I seem to be getting nowhere with them to clear my name
Link financial in particular completely ignore any correspondence I send
Not sure what to do ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you reported the fraud to Action Fraud? That gives you a crime reference number.
Then you need to complain to the original lenders, not to a debt collector such as Link. Tell the debt collectors you are challenging the debt with the original lender.
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/loans-using-your-name-stop-identity-theft/ for a complete list of things to do.
if you accept offers to pay off these debts, they still harm your credit score. Debts drop off 6 years after a default date or 6 years after a debt is settled if there is not default date and it is just marked as in arrears.
Nats says
Hi Sarah,
I have an old default on my credit report that was from missing payments to a credit card that was then sold to a DC. The credit card ended up removing their mark from credit score as they agreed I shouldn’t have been given the credit card in the first place (there was already a ccj on my report at that time). Do I stand a chance in getting the debt collection company to remove their default now that the debt has been paid and because I shouldn’t have been given the credit card in the first place?
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you get a refund from the card lender? did they not agree to sort out the balance with the debt collector?
Peta says
Hello
I defaulted on a credit card with Marriott in 2016, I did not keep up with my lower payments and they sold the debt to Lowell in 2017. Unfortunately my account was never reported as default to credit reference agencies and although I didn’t make any payments to Lowell, Lowell reported my account as ok. Then in may 2021 Lowell sent me a letter saying that I was behind on my contractual payments of £276 a month and my account was recorded as a late payment. I have a terrible credit rating but this late payment popping up sent it flying downwards even further. So I said I could pay £40 a month and they said they would mark me as late each month even with the £40 a month because my contractual payments are £276 a month. I asked if they apply a default back to 2016 but they declined. I also asked Marriott and the declined. I have appealed to the ombudsman and they said that Lowell would remove the reporting from the credit reference agencies and then start reporting again. This doesn’t make any sense as a solution to remove information and then start again? I have said I am not happy with this solution. To make matters worse I am unemployed since making the offer of £40 and so would not be able to afford that at the moment. I am at a loss as to what to do because it will take a lifetime to pay the debt off because it is nearly £9000 and my credit file will show as late payment for the rest of my life? Do you have any advice? Many thanks for your valuable time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was this decision from FOS from an adjudicator or an Ombudsman?
Is this your only problem debt at the moment? Are you behind with any bills?
Peta says
Hi
Thank you for your prompt reply. When I posted the message earlier I felt at my wits end because I couldn’t believe that the financial ombudsman was saying that Lowell was going to wipe my record clean but then restart it again. I sent a message to you in haste because after I had messaged you , the ombudsman said they had made a typo error in their solution and they didn’t mean that it would be restarted and that it would indeed be removed from the credit reference agencies reporting permanently. I got into massive debt in 2016 after a failed business and relationship and all my debts were from 2016 were defaulted except the Marriott/ Lowell which for some bizarre reason was left as ok , I hadn’t made any payments since 2017 but it always showed on my report as ok until this summer when Lowell said I needed to pay my original contracted payments and as I couldn’t afford this they would mark me as late each month. The ombudsman said that Lowell admits to making mistakes and would remove all reporting to cras permanently but then they added a typo of . “Then they will start reporting again”. I contacted the ombudsman and they have apologised and said that was an error. So fingers crossed everything will be ok
Thank you for replying, I should be more patient
Sara (Debt Camel) says
excellent. I hope this gets sorted soon.
You do need to go back to Lowell and say you have lost your job and you can only make a token payment of £1 a month at the moment.
Peta says
Hi ok will do thanks for your advice
Sara M says
Hi Sara,
I would appreciate some advice please.
I have two Barclaycard debts going back over 20 years, in which I have been paying a nominal amount each month for the duration of the debt. One has been with Link for some years and the other was passed to PRA Group a few months ago.
In late July this year, I applied for a CCA from them both, which resulted in an initial reply saying that they were unable to supply the information within the 12 days.
On November 5th, I received a letter from Link, stating that the original creditor has been unable to comply to my request and therefore the account is considered unenforecable. I originally took out the card in 1977. So far, I have continued to pay the monthly nominal amount of £6.23 a month.
I am still awaiting further communication from the PRA group but, I suspect they will not be able to supply the original agreement, as I took out the card in 1994. I am still paying £6.29 a month.
I am now 78 years old, have no immediate family, am in privately rented accommodation and am in receipt of Pension Credit. There is no way I will be in a position to settle the debt wholly anyway.
I have recently received a small inheritance and would be willing to make a settlement offer of 5-10% just to get rid of the debt once and for all. I don’t want to be receiving letters from them in the future.
What do you consider to be my best way forward.
Many thanks.
Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do these debts still show on your credit record?
If you want to make a full and final offer, I suggest you stop paying them for three months first. That way they know you are serious.
But in your position, I would be inclined to not make an offer. These debts aren’t just old, they are ANCIENT.
Sara Molinari says
Hi Sara, thank you for your reply.
I don’t know if they are on my record, how do I find out?
Yes, they are ancient! But, I always lived in hopes that one day I would be in a position to pay them off. Never happened.
I could just walk away but I don’t want this hanging around my neck until my dying day. I just want it settled.
I will follow your advice and stop the payments and then see what happens.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can check your credit records for free – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/
Sara says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for the links.
I know some time has passed since my last post but now the position is, I stopped payments to Link in December, so have now missed 2 payments They are now phoning me every few days but I have not returned their calls. I intend to write to them today and tell them as the debt is unenforceable, there will be no further payments until such time that the CCA is provided. There is no default showing on my record, I assume it fell off years ago as the debt is around 20 years old!
In regards to PRA, I stopped payments to them this month and will send them the same correspondence. 2 years ago, when it was still with Barclaycard, I checked my credit report and found that 2 of the 3 didn’t list it. However, PRA bought the debt in March 2021 and of the 3 credit reports I checked recently, none have included this debt. It seems very strange.
The last letter I received from PRA on 11/08.2021, informing me that at that time it was deemed unenforecable, they also stated: “Until the information is received I have placed your account on hold, which will cease any further collections activity until further notice.” However they still took the monthly payments.
I will sit tight and see what transpires over the next few weeks, but I do want this settled for my peace of mind.
I would appreciate your comments.
Many thanks.
James says
Hi, A few years back I got myself into 32000 worth of debt due to various reasons, all either credit card or loans. I started paying back via a DMP with stepchange for around a year but when covid hit I decided to stop and offer repayments directly to the creditors. The creditors in question are PRA, Intrum and Wescot, I currently pay wescot for 2 debts at £10.00 per month each, 2 to PRA, one at £25.00 and one at £5.00 per month and one to intrum at £50.00 per month. At this rate it will currently take me around 29 years to repay all debts. I work full time and earn 32k a year before tax, I have no savings and no access to a large amount of money.
My questions are as follows.
1. What would be the best approach from here in your opinion ?
2. Can i ask each creditor to reduce each debt into a manageable payment which could clear the balance within say 2 years ?
3. If I do just continue paying as I am, will the defaults still fall off my history as of the 6 year point even though I’m still paying the debt back ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What were you paying to StepChange each month? Has your income increased or decreased since then?
Are all of the debts marked as defaulted on your credit record?
Are you buying or renting?
James says
I was paying £260 per month to stepchange but needed to reduce payments. At that point I found it easier to speak to creditors myself and they were understanding. All have defaulted in 2018 I believe and all original creditors are no longer the creditors now. I currently rent due to my job.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
To answer your questions in reverse order:
3. whatever you do, the defaults will drop off after 6 years. the only danger to your credit record is if one of the creditors go to court for a CCJ.
2. Well you can ask, but if you can’t afford much more than you are currently paying, it’s highly unlikely they will agree. From the creditors poit of view, things may get better – you could get a better paid job or inherit money – so why would they accpt a very low amount now?
1. It may well be bankruptcy. There are options like asking your creditors to produce the CCA agreements for the debts (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/), but these are unlikely to get the debt down to a level it can be repaid in a reasonable time. is it possible;e you could make affordability complainst about any of the debts?
James says
For 2. I can get help to pretty much double my payments for 2 years but that would only cover about 25% of the debts I owe over a 2 year period, I am going to ask the question with a view to either a DRO or bankruptcy if not.
The thing with the CCA, I asked a while back for original credit agreements and they sent me back what appeared to be some sort of statements from a balance transfer ? But how do I prove I was given the credit when I couldn’t afford it ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can get help to pretty much double my payments for 2 years but that would only cover about 25% of the debts I owe over a 2 year period, I am going to ask the question with a view to either a DRO or bankruptcy if not.
Then I suggest a much easier route to trying to get all the creditors to agree to this is to simply make the monthly payments but get the relative helping to the extra money aside in a savings account each month. Then at the end of 2 years you offer a full and final settlement.
Asking for the CCA – did you use the formal letter and send £1 cheques as that link said?
Affordability – can you write something about how the debts grew so large? Are any of the loans high cost (over say 10%?) – who was the lender? the credit cards, were you given increased credit limits when you had already only been paying the minimum for many months? Did you have an overdraft during this period?
James says
No I did not send anything away, I did it via email I didn’t know of the £1 process at that point in time.
All the above you have mentioned about reasons why I couldn’t afford the credit are pretty much true I just don’t know how I would prove that as all accounts are no longer accessible to me.
Going forward I think to take your advice on the f+f might be best option for now, in the meantime will it be worth sending away for CCA to see if they can actually produce that ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have template letters to help with affordability complaints – you don’t need to know the account history. But if you describe what happened and who the lenders are it would help are there are different letters… also it’s good for you to know which are the strongest claims.
Yes I think it’s worth asking for the CCAs – you may as well know where you stand.
Sara Molinari says
Hi Sara, thank you for your reply.
I don’t know if they are on my record, how do I find out?
Yes, they are ancient! But, I always lived in hopes that one day I would be in a position to pay them off. Never happened.
I could just walk away but I don’t want this hanging around my neck until my dying day. I just want it settled.
I will follow your advice and stop the payments and then see what happens.
James says
The original creditors where lendable,mbna, tesco, and barclaycard, the current creditors are wescot, pra and intrum. I defaulted with all the original creditors. Where can I get the letter you speak of from ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
for Large loans (not small payday loans) the template is here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
For credit cards the template is here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/
Those articles explain how these affordability complaints work.