If you get a letter saying that a debt has been sold to a debt collector you may be very worried.
This article answers common questions about what has happened and how it will affect you:
- will the debt collection agency (DCA) be horrible to deal with?
- is it legal to do this?
- do you still have to pay the money?
- what about your credit record?
- what if you don’t owe the money?
Contents
I don’t think this is my debt
The letter doesn’t say what the debt is!
If you get a letter that might be about a debt but it doesn’t give any details at all, it is just asking you to call them, then this is a “fishing expedition”. They don’t really know who the debt belongs to and they are hoping someone will give them their details (date of birth, previous addresses) that will match.
You can usually ignore these vague letters – see Prime Location Services – do I have to call them? for an example.
But I don’t owe this money
When the letter mentions a debt that you don’t think you owe, do not ignore it.
If you have already repaid the debt, tell the debt collector this. Ask them for a Statement of Account for the debt if they say you do still owe money.
If you have never borrowed from that lender, or never used that electricity supplier, reply telling the debt collector to Prove It!
It is the debt collector’s job to show you are the borrower. You don’t have to prove you aren’t. But unfortunately you may need to be persistent about this.
Has the debt really been sold?
A lender will often appoint a debt collector to try to collect the money for them. This isn’t a “sale” – you still owe the money to the original lender. None of the rest of this article is relevant.
If you aren’t sure what has happened, the best thing is to contact the original creditor and ask them if your debt has been sold or not. If you are worried and don’t want to talk to the creditor, phone National Debtline for advice about the letter.
Is the sale fair?
Is this even legal? Why wasn’t I asked?
When a sale happens, everything about your debt remains the same, except that you now owe the money to the debt collector who has bought the debt. The T&Cs of the debt haven’t changed – just who the creditor is.
You won’t be asked to agree to the sale. AndYou can’t object to or stop the sale.
You agree to the original terms when you borrowed the money or opened the account. In the small print, there will have been a clause that said that the lender can “assign his rights” to a third-party. This is the legal term for a “sale”.
Your debt can be sold if you are in debt management or you have an arrangement to pay. It may not feel fair if the lender accepted your monthly offer and you are making the payments as agreed, but legally the lender can still sell the debt.
There is one exception here. If your lender subscribes to the Standards of Lending Practice and if they had previously been shown evidence that you have mental health problems or critical illness, your debt should not have been sold. Most banks and many major credit cards are subscribers. Go to your local Citizens Advice if you would like help with this situation.
How much was my debt sold for?
That will depend on the state of your account. A debt where you have paid token payments or nothing for a long while may have been sold for very little, just a penny or two in the pound. If you are making regular payments then it will have been sold for more.
You won’t be told what your account was sold for. The sale is a commercial agreement between the seller and the buyer.
This may seem annoying or unfair, but the debt collector and the original lender are not doing anything wrong by not telling you the sale price.
The price the debt collector paid for your debt is irrelevant to you. It doesn’t affect the amount that you now owe. You still owe the full amount but now to the debt collector.
If the lender has been paid, why do I owe anything?
The original lender has had the debt settled by the DCA. But you now owe the money to the DCA instead.
Think of this example. You borrow £200 from your sister for some car repairs, agreeing to pay her back £50 a month. But she suddenly needs all the money immediately, so your dad gives your sister the £200 and you repay your dad instead. Same debt, same repayments. You borrowed from your sister but now you don’t owe her anything but you do need to repay your dad.
This is pretty much what has happened with your debt being sold. Your debt stays exactly the same, you just owe it to a different person.
NB This example isn’t an attempt to explain the legal contractual obligations – it is an analogy illustrating why you now have to repay someone else.
I want to carry on paying the original lender
You can’t do this. You don’t owe any money to the original lender anymore.
Has this reset the 6 year period for becoming statute-barred?
No, this hasn’t changed anything about statute barring:
- if the debt isn’t yet statute-barred, the 6 year period carries on, it doesn’t start again after the sale. But if you were hoping the debt would soon become statute barred, the debt collector may push you to make a payment or go to court for a CCJ if you won’t. See “My debt has been sold, just when I thought I was out of the woods” for your options.
- where you have been making payments, this debt will never become statute-barred.
- a debt that is already statute-barred will continue to be so after the sale.
Read Statute Barred Debt – Common Questions because statute barring is complicated.
My debt has now been sold to another debt collector!
This happens. Sometimes several times. There is nothing you can do about it.
Sometimes the debt collector is going out of business. In 2022-3 there was a very big transfer of debts from Hoist to Lowell for this reason.
If you have been paying the previous debt collector, just start paying the new one.
What will the debt collector do?
Will the debt collector be difficult?
You may find that debt collectors are as easy to deal with as the original lender. Indeed they may be more likely to freeze interest or accept a full and final settlement offer!
If you had a payment arrangement with the original lender, for example in a debt management plan, you just need to offer the same amount to the debt collector.
There are regulations to make sure that consumer credit debt collectors behave fairly. All debt collectors handling credit card, overdraft and loan debts have to be regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and if you have problems with one, the Financial Ombudsman will look at your complaint.
Unless you ignore the debt collector, it’s unlikely that you will get phone calls at work.
Will they come to my house? send bailiffs?
Bailiffs can’t be sent until the debt collector has got a CCJ (see below) and you are not making the CCJ monthly payments. this is very unlikely unless you ignore the debt collector.
In theory, a debt collector can send someone to your house. They have no more right to enter your house and take your things than the postman has. You don’t have to open the door to them.
As a result, this is pretty rare. It isn’t going to happen unless you ignore the debt collector, and even then it’s pretty unusual.
Can the debt collector take me to court?
Legally, yes. The debt collector now has all the rights that the original lender had and this includes applying for a County Court Judgment (CCJ).
You don’t have to worry that this is going to happen straight away. The debt collector would rather reach an agreement with you for monthly payments and not have the cost and bother of going to court.
But in 2022, there were nearly 900,000 CCJs. Many of these CCJs are for quite small amounts – much less than a £1,000.
Very few original lenders go to court for a CCJ – they usually sell the debt and let the debt collector take you to court. You may have been ignoring the original creditor and all that has happened has been a few emails and letters. But if you ignore a debt collector they are much more likely to take you to court.
How much can you pay to this debt?
I already have a payment arrangement in place for the debt
If you have a debt management plan, tell the DMP company. They will switch your monthly payment to go to the debt collector.
Where you have set up the payment arrangement, you need to ask the debt collector for their bank account details so you can start paying them.
I can’t afford to pay anything as I have arrears on important bills
Explain this to the debt collector. Most of them will let you have a break from paying if you have priority debts.
DO NOT PANIC and offer too much
You should only offer what you can afford for regular monthly payments. Not the maximum you think you can stretch to next month.
Never borrow money to try to pay a debt collector. This is an already defaulted debt where interest should be frozen. You will make your situation worse by borrowing more money to clear this and paying interest on it.
If you have been ignoring this debt, this is a good point to review your whole situation and your possible debt solutions.
If you aren’t sure what to offer, or feel a debt collector is trying to push you to pay too much contact your local Citizens Advice. Or phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000,
But I now have two defaults on my credit file!
Debts are usually already defaulted before they are sold. When it is sold the original creditor will mark the debt as settled with a zero balance owing and the debt collector will add the debt with the same default date that the original creditor used.
So now there are now two debts with defaults on your credit record. You may be alarmed because that looks bad.
But the debt isn’t being double counted because one of the debt entries says that there is zero owing.
And when your credit rating is calculated, only one of the two debts is counted. So your credit score will not get worse because you now seem to have two defaults.
Options when you cant pay bills & debts
Threats of court – are debt collectors bluffing?
Ask for the CCA agreement for old debts
Jimbob says
I have an old debt with Payday Express, which is now being chased by CRS (Credit resource solutions). Debt is from beginning of 2017, and credit file is showing as 6 payments late from October 2017 until present day, with no default ever registered. There is a settlement figure offered by CRS which I am thinking about paying off, however i am wondering what this will do to my credit file as i don’t want them to suddenly add a default and mark as partially settled. Any thoughts? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s always hard to know what to do when the lender has made an error. You could just tell CRS the situation and that you are happy to pay the settlement if they will mark the debt as closed.
Jimbob says
I did ask them the question about the default, and all they could say is that the original lender deals with the credit file, and not themselves (they did not say who the original lender was, and i believe payday express is now defunct)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can try to talk to Payday express, but it may be hard to get a simple question answered.
Jane says
Hello Sara, having come off a long standing DMP with Stepchange, we’ve been paying enforceable debts only since October. Idem initially accepted the same monthly payments as we had been paying Stepchange but now want to do a review and have sent me a budget sheet which they say need to be filled in and returned. On it they’re asking for all monthly income/expenditure etc but also which other creditors and how much we owe them. Should I give them all this detail?
The other thing is we have another unenforceable debt they’re managing which they’re trying to pressure us to pay but we’re ignoring as we did the whole credit agreement thing and they acknowledged it’s unenforceable but I don’t unwittingly want to fall in a trap as I’m not sure I’d even list that one as a debt on the form. Not sure how to reply and wondered if you could advise. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
On it they’re asking for all monthly income/expenditure etc but also which other creditors and how much we owe them. Should I give them all this detail?
yes – it’s how they know you are paying them a fair amount.
I’m not sure I’d even list that one as a debt on the form.
No I wouldn’t list debts which are unenforceable so you aren’t paying.
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about what to put on the form. It can be easy to miss off important expenses.
Julie says
Hi
DEBT MANAGERS (SERVICES) LTD.
I am currently paying 3 debts to them. All in payment plans all being paid.. My issue is they are constantly hounding me, harrasing me, calls, voice mails, text messages, emails and letters, honestly it is driving me mental..
Can I request that they leave me alone and will they do that?
I have emailed a complaint over to them today about the constant harrasment and asked them to leave me alone, it’s causing major anxiety..
I don’t understand why they are constantly housing me when every account is in payment and is being paid :(
Is there anything I can do.. I’ve blocked numbers but then they call from a slightly different number, this has been going on since march
Thank you
Julie
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why are they trying to contact you?
gf1979 says
Hi Sara,
Not sure if i’m posting this in the right place but here goes. I’m currently on a DMP with Stepchange and have been for just short of 6 years but i still have years to go before my debt is cleared. All but one of the defaults have fallen off my credit file and the last one falls off in jan 2021. All of the debts are with Debt recovery companies now (Cabot/idem/moorcroft/Shoosmiths/PRA Group/Link ) All of the debts were historic debts i was left with after going through a divorce so were credit cards or loans with one being an overdraft. I’ve currently received a 50% off offer from cabot but wonder if its even worth paying any of it if its already fallen off my file and possibly not enforceable ?, as i could use this money against the overdraft one thats left remaining on my file?If I’ve understood previous posts correctly does that mean i could contact all the ones that have fallen off my file already and ask for a copy of the CCA agreement with the £1 fee and if they come back saying they dont have one or take longer than 3/4months to try find one we can pretty much guess that they cant find it and the debt is not enforceable if i wish to stop paying? If its not enforceable does that mean i cant be taken to court or a CCJ against me? As that’s the last thing i would want when im 6yrs clear on my file, id rather continue paying but id just like to see an end to this debt i got left with from my ex husband. Any advice would be much appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’ve currently received a 50% off offer from cabot but wonder if its even worth paying any of it if its already fallen off my file and possibly not enforceable
As you say it may not be enforceable. I suggest you read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/
If its not enforceable does that mean i cant be taken to court or a CCJ against me?
yes.But only if you have asked for the CCA.
You could also think about asking for the CCA for the other debts except not the overdraft.
Kelly says
Hi Sara
Today I got a letter from cabots to inform me that my debt from a NatWest credit card was now with them. I have not had any contact with NatWest for over 5 years. I’ve looked at my credit file and it’s showing 2 debts with NatWest, £659 cc debt, default date 13/05/15 and £1721 current account (this was a joint account overdraft debt) default date 20/07/16 (no contact over 5 years again). I am lucky to be in a position to pay the smaller debt straight away, will it still drop off my credit file next year? Also if I put a plan in place to pay the other debt will that also drop off my credit file in 2022? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
debts with defaults always drop off your credit record after 6 years, if you have paid them or are still paying them.
Cabot may accept a settlement offer from you, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/
jodi says
Hi Sara, can you advise please. Drydensfairfax have sent me a letter saying : our records indicate that our client (creation consumer finance) holds a final charging order over your property. This is correct.
They are saying I dont have a repayment plan and have never made any payments to clear the debt. I have looked through all my debts which there is a lot and can find no payments made to them. I find it strange that they have contacted me now.
Basically they are asking if I can offer them a repayment plan. I was taken to court in December 2002.
What should I do ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You agree they have a charging order? Do you know how large the debt is now? How much equity do you have? What is the rest of your debt situation?
jodi gray says
Yes I know about the charging order, I tried to stop it at the time. The debt is 2.5k, equity approx 65k and my debt situation is dire due to illness. Aprox 40k 20 plus companies jointly with my partner all on agreed repayment plans. Sad situation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, the unsecured debts, how old are these? when did you / your partner default on them?
Your mortgage, when does it end? it is interest only or repayment?
jodi gray says
early 2012
Its a repayment mortgage with 12 years left to run.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you need to include the charging order in your repayment plans. Which may mean reducing what you can pay to the other debts.
One option would be to talk to a debt adviser about asking the unsecured creditors to write off your debts because of your health problems if they are long term. the age of the debts and the low amount you can pay. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/.
That may work with a few, it probably depends on the nature of your health problems.
You could also ask debt collectors for the CCA agreement for any debts which were loans, credit cards or catalogues, not overdrafts of mobiles or utilities. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ for more about this. Again this may work for some of them.
I think you need to talk to a debt adviser about all the details of your situation. Getting an Income & Expenditure sheet you could send to creditors would be very useful. If you have spare income to pay to your creditors, then an IVA could be another option, but with health problems it may be best avoided if the problems could get worse,
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
A says
Hi there,
I have just found out that my debt with Aqua credit card around £3500 has been sold to a debt collection agency. But I am on payment holiday until September so technically cannot be sold until September. I asked if I can stop it from being sold but they said it’s too late – is it too late?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can’t stop them selling your debt, they can sell an account which is not in default.
you can now ask for a further payment break of 3 months if your finances are now still affected by covid-19.
What is your overall financial situation like?
A says
Hi there,
My overall financial situation is poor. I have around 11k (from credit cards) of unsecured debt and slowly, very slowly, chipping away at it through DMP – around £100 across a few cards.
I have two small cases with Ombudsman which I’m waiting to hear back on from a debt cycle of about two years of monthly Payday loans which I have paid back and now working on clearing the credit card debt to be debt free.
I have just recently moved away from the UK to Europe permanently too but have no savings or house.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this Aqua debt is in your DMP? is the interest frozen on it?
A says
Sorry, to clarify the aqua debt was not in a DMP all the rest yes. Apologies if that was misleading
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you ask for the Aqua debt to be included in your DMP – you need the interest frozen on that debt! the fact it is sold to a debt collector really doesn’t matter.
But you also need to think about how long it is going to take to repay such a lot of debt. Have you considered insolvency options? Do you intend to return to the UK?
A says
Thanks Sara,
The Aqua interest was stopped while on the payment holiday which ends in Sept when the dept will be sold. Who/how do I speak to to ensure the interest remains stopped?
I will also look at insolvency options to get a handle on my debts.
Thanks for you help and advice!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Interest normally is stopped when a debt is sold. Ask the debt collector for an affordable payment arrangement and for the interest to be stopped.
Talk to National Debtline about your options – you can phone them from outside the UK, see https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/abroad/Pages/living-outside-the-uk.aspx
Paul says
Hi
My Barclaycard debt was sold to an agency when I missed some payments due to financial difficulties and illness after moving abroad. I was in a bad way. Barclaycard also took 2000 pounds from my Barclays Bank account some months later but I believe before they sold the debt. From memory, this was most of my balance at the time. This was in 2014. The Barclaycard debt then and now is 6000 pounds.
Since then I have received collection letters to my contact address in the UK. At the time, I sought independent advice on how to deal with collection agencies and told to sit tight for a while as Barclaycard had taken the 2000 pounds, which the adviser didn’t understand, and wait until the agency step up their efforts. Nothing has ever changed – I get the usual letters stating the debt amount and reduction offers etc, but never a threat of court action. So, I have never replied.
Like I say, this was now almost 6 years ago. Can I hope this is now just going to disappear? Incidentally, I continue to live abroad and it has been somewhat out-of-sight, out-of-mind, which probably isn’t the best but, they have never made any further efforts bar the occasional letters. So I’ve just hoped all these years.
Go easy on me…
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
From memory, this was most of my balance at the time. This was in 2014. The Barclaycard debt then and now is 6000 pounds.
So you think the balance should really have been about 4000? Did you not dispute thus at the time?
I sought independent advice on how to deal with collection agencies and told to sit tight for a while
Who was this advice from?
Paul says
I didn’t really understand – the balance was 8000 then they took 2000.
Advice was from an online site similar to this.
The debt is dated from November 2014.
Paul says
I was just wondering if they are likely to apply for a CCJ before the debt is six years old in November?
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They may well do.
Paul says
Do you feel it would be better for me to contact the agency now rather than risk a CCJ? My problem is living abroad and not having access to my mail – I only get home every 12-18 months, and won’t be next home til December. I really don’t want to not be able to reply to a CCJ letter, naturally, should I get one. I now, after several years, have the means to make regular repayments, and want to get out of this debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t advise you, I don’t know your full situation. If you need advice, talk to National Debtline who can be phoned from outside the UK https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/abroad/Pages/living-outside-the-uk.aspx
I can make some general points about your options:
– why would you pay a debt when you are disputing the amount is correct by £2000? If you want to start paying, you need to get this resolved first. If necessary send Barclays a Subject Access request asking for a copy of your date for the relevant period (say starting a year before the default)
– is this your only debt? You need to look at your full situation, not treat individual debts as a fire-fighting exercise.
– it is possible (but not certain) that the debt collector doesn’t have the correct paperwork for the debt. You could ask them for this: https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ – if they cant produce the CCA then the debt is unenforceable in court.
– the debt collector may accept a settlement offer if you could afford one.
– doing almost anything apart from paying in full will probably mean telling them where you live.
– if you don’t expect to be back in the Uk for 6 years or more, do you care if you get a CCJ?
Chris says
Hi I applied for a mortgage recently and got rejected even though my credit score with Experian is 920 out of 1000.
I was informed that I had a record from a dept management plan who was originally shop direct catalogue from 2009 it got sold to arrow global ltd in 2014 (they never applied a default) and I carried on paying until 2018 when the dmp was fully paid off.
There was 6 debts on my dmp and all the other debts defaulted me so they dropped off my credit report years ago now I’m left with this 11yrs later still affecting me I’m trying to get shop direct to apply a default back to 2014 when they sold it but there telling me they only default accounts if I wasn’t on a dmp! So because I done the right thing and payed my depts I can’t get a mortgage now I’m so unhappy about this I have logged a complaint and waiting for a reply hoping that they will apply a default to the original account so it drops off my credit report it’s so unfair Iv finally got my finances and saved 15000 for a deposit and have work in front of me for yrs I’m 42 and running out of time.
If I don’t get any luck from them is there anything else I can do? Because I can’t see why 5 out of 6 debts defaulted me and shop direct never? Can I write to the financial ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, if your complaint is not accepted take it to the Ombudsman.
BUT how large is your deposit, what percentage?
Chris says
It was 15 percent for a 77000 house Halifax rejected me ….another wanted 25 percent to even look at accepting me for a bad credit mortgage And 200 just to look at my application knowing I had been on a dmp I didn’t follow through with it because I didn’t have more money I’m saving up and hopefully get this default put on so the debt drops off my file.
It’s so annoying
JB says
Hi,
I have today received a letter from Cabot telling me they own my old credit card account from Natwest. This account history is as follows:
1. Following financial issues 2009-2010 the account was Defaulted and I received a CCJ in 2012
2. A charging order was applied to our house in 2012 following the CCJ
3. The account was paid at £5 per month until December 2019 when I could no longer afford it due to massively changed circumstances (divorce & unemployment)
So the way I see it I have 2 options:
1. Ignore them, I no longer live in the UK and my ex has the house, they have written to me at my current offshore address. I have no financial interest in the house but I do than pay the mortgage, ownership of the house has been transferred to my ex and she is aware of the charging orders with it. It’s an interest only mortgage so the house will have to be sold before the mortgage ends and Natwest will get the balance upon completion (Oct 2028).
2. Respond explaining the above and stating that the only way I will deal with them is following receipt of the following letters:
a. Natwest – Confirmation that the charging order has been removed and that they have sold the account
b. County court – Confirmation that the application to remove the charging order has been received and actioned
c. Land registry – Confirmation that the Natwest charge no longer exists on the property.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t imagine (2) will work.
You can talk to National Debtline from abroad if you want advice on your options: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/information/abroad/Pages/living-outside-the-uk.aspx
JB says
Hi Sara, Thank you for your reply, I was unable to post the below earlier as the comment was too long.
I should add I have had previous experience dealing with cabot, a few years ago they summonsed me to county court without any prior warning, it was to collect a balance from a credit card account with a credit card provider I had never actually held an account with. I stood my ground and responded to both the court and their solicitor, it took several months and several letters between myself, the court, and the solicitor before cabot withdrew the county court claim. The whole process caused me a large amount of unnecessary stress and anguish and not so much as an apology was offered, they simply said they had no way to prove their case and were therefore withdrawing the claim but that I still owed them the money. As a result of this experience I have an extremely low opinion of cabot and their level of integrity.
Whilst I realise the current situation is different, I don’t understand why Natwest would sell a debt for pennies when they already have a guaranteed means of full payment in a charging order. Natwest are also the mortgage provider and know full well when the expiry of the mortgage is and the situation with my ex-wife. Given the above I believe it’s reasonable to demand removal of the charging order and proof that it has been done so that when the house is sold that payment is not taken.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s up to you, it’s your time you are spending on this… I would be interested to know how it goes.
Jonathan mayers says
Hi if the debt for the charging order was in only your name and the mortgage was in both names then a full charging order can’t be issued it will be a k restriction. Which mean when you sell you just have to notify the person/company that you intend to sell. Your solicitor can do this at the same time as you complete as land registry just asks that they have been notified. But you need a soliton that knows about k restrictions
And once the names have changed on the deeds the charging order/ restriction is removed
Robert says
Hi guys,
Please could you tell what happens if I my offer from SC has been rejected?
What I need to do now?
Shall I send better offer or something else to do?
Thank you for help!
The above creditor has rejected the payment we offered.
You don’t need to worry about this, your plan will continue and we’ll still send a payment to them.
Because TSB BANK PLC OVERDRAFTS have rejected your offer they may continue with their standards collection process, this could include passing your debt to a different company.
To make sure that your plan stays on track you need to let us know if this happens so that we can send payments to the new company instead
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, don’t offer them any more money. StepChange are dividing up your money fairly between your creditors. It isn’t fair to start paying one more because they are sulking!
I suggest you contact TSB in a couple of months time and ask if they are still adding charges. If they aren’t, that’s fine. IF they are, then you need to ask them to stop, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/creditor-wont-freeze-interest/ for more about this.
Debt collectors are usually nicer to deal with in this sort of situation, so if TSB sell the debt this is nothing to worry about, just tell SC who will start paying the debt collector.
JC says
Hi Sara,
I have £24k of 4x credit card debt, and £10k of 2x overdraft debt, all sold and now owned by the same DCA. For almost 10 years I have made monthly £1 gesture payments on all these debts either directly or through a collection agency.
My intention is to request CCA’s for the credit card debts which I hope/expect to be proven unenforceable (as they are all pre 2004). My priority is to then make a F&F settlement on the overdrafts.
My question is, should I treat each debt individually or would my settlement negotiations on the overdrafts benefit from consolidating my debts in some way and making an offer to settle in bulk?
I guess what I’m getting at is, would combining all the debts help me barter a better settlement on the overdafts? (I realise I have less bargaining power with the overdrafts, compared to the credit cards, as they are enforceable).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you sort out the CCAs. And then the overdrafts.
Sophie says
Hi Sara
I am trying to speak to Lending Stream about old loan agreements going back beyond 2012. I have found e-mails with agreement numbers but when I talked to them they say they cannot find them. During the webchat they’ve asked if I had shut down my account as they couldn’t find my e-mail address either.
Would I have a chance of a claim with them if I can prove via my bank account and e-mail correspondence that they have lent to me all these years back?
It does seem to me that they have tried to delete my old records.
Your help would be much appreciated.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
LS are likely to say No but the Ombudsman will usually consider other evidence about loans. How many loans did you have from them?
Sophie says
At least 5/6 I can trace via my e-mails going back to 2012. I can also go back to my bank account that far and show that they have taken payments from me and deposited money.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok 5 or 6 is definitely worth doing. This can be a lot of hassle to go through so if you only had a couple of small loans it probably isn’t worth it.
Sophie says
Thanks Sara. I will try my luck ! I know that I paid lots of interest as I rolled over loans and took additional ones out at the same time.
Deloris says
Hi Sara,
I wonder if I would have any success logging a complaint with HSBC about the high loan / credit card debt & bank account overdraft I had with them back in 2012 when I had to enter into a DMP? With a net income of approx £1400 a month I ended up with more than £10,000 of debt at the time, some of which I am still paying today.
Would I have a chance of claiming unaffordability be successful you think? Could I claim for excess charges (overdraft, interest, late payments etc) like it can be done with payday loans? I’m not asking for debt advise just if you think I would have a case to challenge them. Still have my initial DMP proposal letter what states my income at the time and all the debtors I owed money to.
Your opinion would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Dani says
Hi Sara,
I have two defaulted accounts which in my freshers year at uni I stupidly let become defaulted twice over with the debt collectors link financial and cabot!
Last month I paid off the two balances (131.58 and 280.00 respectively) and link financial has dropped off my credit score and showing £0 balance and being closed/settled however the Newday Lmt credit card which was the initial debt that was sold to Link F. is still listed as being in default and owing £131.58. Will Link Financial have automatically informed Newday that I have repaid in full or do I need to contact Newday to prove to them I have paid off the debt? As you’ve said above when a debt gets sold it does not double but they were both previously listed on my account as £131.58 and having paid off the debt I’m really keen to have both amounts cleared.
Cabot’s £240 has not yet cleared to £0 and both Cabot and Aqua (the initial creditor) are listed as being owed £240 each!
Please let me know how to proceed as I’ve worked really hard to be able to pay these debts off and they seem to be having negligible effect on my credit profile!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can ask Newday and Aqua to set the balances to zero.
This will mean that other creditors may be more likely to lend to you. But don’t expect to see your credit score go up, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/defaulted-account-credit-score/
Dani says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for that! Is this a common issue that a debt collector won’t tell the initial creditor that the debt has been paid or will it just take longer for the initial creditor to update their records?
Also, despite both my Cabot and Link Financial now being listed on my Experian as £0, they are still listed under ‘default accounts’ rather than ‘settled accounts’. Should I contact Experian as this is an admin mistake or the debt collectors? Do the amounts typically update before the account status?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the initial creditor should have marked the balance at zero when the debt was sold.
Technically the cabot and link accounts are “satisfied” not 2settled” as there was a default. different reports show these in different ways.
A says
Hi Sarah,
My debt from Aqua £3500 is being sold to a debt collector, do you think instead of selling to the debt they would accept a full and final settlement offer – I do not have 3500, and I know they will not tell me how much it is being sold for, however I could afford to pay possibly 25% (very max 50%). It would be a win win as they were selling the debt anyway?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, you have been told as your debt has already been sold. But a debt collector is MUCH more likely to accept a settlement offer than the original creditor is. Having a debt sold is not bad news!
A says
Thanks you.
A little bit of a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question but how low can we go for a full and final settlement offer – would 25% be laughed at? I have been on long term debt on a DMP paying £20 per month so not going to clear any year soon.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t say. They may be more likely to accept a low offer if you supply an income & expensditure sheet showing you can’t increase your monthly payment and if the offer comes from a someone else, not you.
Roxanne says
I received a letter today from a debt collector for stating I owed almost 5,000 pounds from a provident loan in 2016.
I am so confused and upset because I dont recall this loan.
In2016 I was 18, my mum was seriously ill and lost her job, we were getting by on my jobseekers allowance and food banks. Without her knowledge, I got a provident loan while at a friends house, it was for 250 pounds and I paid it off, my mum was furious that I had gone this and I promised I wouldn’t get another loan.. now 4 yrs later I get this letter saying I owe this huge amount…my mum is still ill and money is tight, I am unemployed, and my mums carer now.. I rang the debt collection agency and told them it’s not my debt, they said they would contact provident and send me an email…..what do I do, so worried.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have done the right thing by telling the debt collector it isn’t your debt. If you can get your old bank statements from the time of the loan they can be useful as proof that you never received the money.
Harry E says
was full time carer for my late mother with dementia had to move – i called NPOWER to pay my bill they advised that i was due a cold fuel allowance of £140 and not to pay it will catch up , Mum passed 2018 i suffered Trauma Anxiety depression took me months of counselling and till this day have mental health problems, at the end of 2019 trying to get my life back on track i noticed my credit score low plus a default it was NPOWER – they sold my debt to a company failed to forward my details that they claim they never my details , i i have not other issue on my file i am fighting this via ombudsman but due to my illness mental health issues i am scared i have not prepared my response it is all very overwhelming was such dark days i can not deal with ir remember dates etc . NPOWER seem to know how to work the system ,i have written to the CEO pleaded begged him not to drag me though stressful matter as i can not cope totally ignores my emails my plight just a standard sorry , i feel i will fail with ombudsman i get that sinking feeling they act with NPOWER , The stupid thing paid debt £!40 but they paying ombudsman £350 , what can i do further? i been refused mortgage even washing machine my only issue is this when experian suppressed the default until NPOWER responded my score went to excellent
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Which Ombudsman is thus with?
Michael says
Hello Sara
I defaulted on a 118118 loan in 2017, they gave me a default for £7,100 on Oct 2017. They then sold this debt onto Lowell who also gave me a default for £7,100 on Oct 2017.
I recently partially settled the debt via Lowell, but it did surprise me when I checked my credit file to see two defaults for the same amounts on my file.
Is that how it should be?
Thank you in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes it is.
BUT read https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. If you can win an affordability complaint against 118 (and a lot of people have) then the default will be removed from 118 and Lowell records. Worth a try?
Luigi says
Hello Sara,
I’ve got into debt for various (bad) things that have happened suddenly. All the debts seem to have been “sold” to debt collection agencies. If I show to my creditors that I don’t have any money through a budget and bank statements, can I still be taken to Court “easily” ? In other words, even if the DCA is quite certain that I can’t pay the debt, can I be taken to Court and can they win the case? What happens then? Or in still other words, what’s the worst case scenario (in the legal world) if I cannot pay the debts, even if the DCA believes I don’t have the money, no savings, living like a destitute, etc? What would a DCA gain by taking to Court someone who cannot pay the debt? I assume either bailiffs will take any resellable possessions. Am I right? Thank you and be well.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Luigi, a debt collector can take you to court, but they are much less likely to if you show them that you have no money to pay them. I suggest you talk to national Debtline on 0808 808 4000 as they can help you look at your o[tions and what you can say to debt collectors.
Bailiffs can’t come round until the case has been to court. And they can’t take basic personal possessions such as clothes and essentials.
Jane says
Hello Sara – my husband and I came off our DMP in October last year with Stepchange and sent out letters requesting to CCAs to our creditors. Most sent letters saying the debts were unenforceable and since then we haven’t heard from many at all. IDEM are the owners of two separate debts – one enforceable which we are continuing to pay monthly and the second acknowledged unenforceable. They call and write regularly about the unforceable one, I’ve explained we’re waiting for the credit agreement and have a letter from them telling me it’s currently unenforceable but they still say they want to set up a payment plan so we go round in circles. That’s fine except I don’t like the letter I’ve just received and not sure what I should do. It said ‘failure to make contact with us may result in the following: 1) a representative may be instructed to visit your property 2) your account may be place with an external debt collection agency 3) our litigation department may instigate court proceedings.
We have spoken to them several times since October – we have ignored a lot of what we sent but I don’t think there’s anything else to say at the moment is there? Should I be worried about this latest letter – not sure whether to call or not and go round in the same circles. Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did this recent letter acknowledge that the debt is unenforceable?
Jane says
No it didn’t – they acknowledged it on the phone but don’t ever acknowledge it in the follow up letters
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Gotcha!
The regulator’s rule CONC 13.1.6 (4) says that when someone has made a request for a copy of their CCA agreement and it cannot be found, all future requests for payment from a creditor should make it clear that the debt is unenforceable.
I suggest you email them a complaint – put COMPLAINT in the subject line to mke this clear, and say something along the lines of (make sure it is absolutely right for your situation, don’t just use my suggestion)
“I am complaining about the requests for payment I have been getting for [some reference number or a description of this debt].
You acknowledged on dd/mm/yy that you cannot currently produce the CCA agreement for this debt and that it is currently unenforceable.
I understand you can continue to ask for payment to it. But the FCA’s CONC rule 13.1.6 says you have to make it clear in every communication that the debt is unenforceable.
You haven’t been doing this. For example the latest letter dated dd/mm/yy doesn’t not mention that the debt is unenforceable. And it is also misleading and threatening as it suggests that you may start court proceedings when you should not.
I would like these inaccurate and threatening communications to stop. If I receive any more that do not expressly acknowledge the debt is unenforceable I will be complaining to the Financial Ombudsman and asking for compensation for this harassment.”
Jane says
Thank you Sara! That’s brilliant. I knew you’d be able to help – you’ve helped me so much through some very difficult times – I’m very grateful :)
Ted says
Dear Sara
I have an old credit card debt of £14k originally from Lloyds and sold on to Cabot Financial. It defaulted in 2012 and I have been paying it off at £1 a month.
I sold my house last year so on my credit file my old mortgage now shows as paid off. I have £50k in the bank from the sale of my house but I need that as a deposit for a new place to live.
Cabot Financial wrote to me last week advising that based on recent checks they believe I can increase my monthly payment to them to £76. They also say in the letter that this account may be reported on my credit file. They say if they do not hear from me in 14 days, they will consider alternative means to recover the balance, which may include placing my account with their solicitors.
I thought I only had to pay £1 a month forever and this letter has brought back all the trauma of the situation I was in in 2012.
Questions
Can I get away with just paying the £1 a month or can they force me to disclose my income and outgoings and pay whatever they say I can afford to pay?
Can they place this debt on my credit file even though the original debt defaulted in 2012?
Should I ask for a final settlement or would this likely be a high value if not all the value of the loan as they can see from my credit file what the final balance of my mortgage was and see from the land registry what I sold my house for.
What would you recommend I do?
Thank you for your help with this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I get away with just paying the £1 a month or can they force me to disclose my income and outgoings and pay whatever they say I can afford to pay?
This debt will never be statute barred as you have been paying it. The fact it isn’t on your credit record now is irrelevant. Cabot can go to court to get a CCJ if you don’t make them a reasonable offer.
Can they place this debt on my credit file even though the original debt defaulted in 2012?
No.
Should I ask for a final settlement or would this likely be a high value if not all the value of the loan as they can see from my credit file what the final balance of my mortgage was and see from the land registry what I sold my house for.
I doubt you will now get a cheap F&F. I suppose you could try.
What would you recommend I do?
Is this your only problem debt?
Are you in the process of buying a house?
Ted says
Hi Sara
Yes this is my only debt and no I am not currently in the process of buying a new place, I was but the sale fell through so now I can thinking about renting until I find something. I am staying with friends temporarily and my stuff is in storage.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you don’t really have a good reason not to pay them in full…
… unless they can’t produce the CCA agreement for the debt. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/. That is not guaranteed to work, but for a debt that old there is a chance it might. Worth a try?
Ted says
Thanks Sara, I shall try that and see how I go.
Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.
Andrew b says
Hey guys, ive had a nightmare with a company for a while “Perfect home” story is i always paid my hp on time every week for 2 years. One week i rung to pay the local store no answer, i drove to the store and the store was closed… I rang the number online no answer, so anyway i waited for a letter/phone call/email and nothing. Earlier this year i went to a mortgage advisor, when they was looking at my credit file they seen perfect home had been marking my file with countless missed payments. My mortgage adviser found there number with FCA, i didnt have this knowledge… We rang they told us that the store is now online only and that i needed to bring months of missed payments upto date, i declined because this is not my fault. Since the call they sent a letter saying the debt has gone to the debt recovery agency… Ive checked my file and perfect home are still marking missed payments on my file, Is this right if the debt is nl longer with the original creditors
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Why didn’t you follow this up before? If you just googled Perfect Home you could have found a phone number?
Andrew b says
I did the Google number was that of the old branch number, it changed when they fully set up online only
plus it says in my 1st comment that i tried the online number the only way i could contact was with a number from the fca
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, so I suggest that you put in a complaint to PH that you had no way of paying them and they failed to contact you so it is unfair that your credit record has been harmed. But you do need to pay the arrears.
Colette says
Hi Sara.
I have been paying Lowell Portfolio for a debt that they purchased in July 2013 from Black Horse Finance. The original debt was for HP in 2001. We have been paying every month since July 2013, initially £20 per month but increased to £80 per month from Oct 2018.
I have recently discovered that Lowell would have purchased our debt for a much smaller amount than we owed. Our balance with Lowell is at present £4900. Would it be possible to ask if they would accept a final payment of 25% of this amount?
Thank you in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can offer a full and final settlement to Lowell.
BUT you might want to first consider if Lowell have the correct paperwork for that ancient debt… https://debtcamel.co.uk/settlements-old-debts-cca/
Susan says
Hi Sara, I was just wondering if you can advise me. I have a debt that was sold to Robinson Way some time ago. They state that I owe £5,251.00 to HFUKH1L (Ex HSBC Bank PLC).
I asked for a CCA and they sent back a letter stating that HSBC have advised that the account relates to a #First Direct Bank Account and Amalgamated Credit Cards. They stated that they have attached a copy of the formal overdraft facility letter and original credit agreement for the card. What I did receive was a copy of the Overdraft Facility Letter and a copy of the Gold Card Application form from First Direct, dated 23/02/2005.. It does have my signature on, but no amount, and no account number. The only info on the application form was my name and old address and 4 numbers of a sort code? Is this a proper CCA? Also, NO statement of account was enclosed, is this normal? Any advice would be so appreciated. Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See How can you tell if it is right? section in https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/
Simon says
Hi Sara,
I have a unaffordablity claim with the Ombudsman regarding Aqua credit card, but have had a ccj claim form today from Lowell. I have contacted Lowell and explained that I have a claim with the ombudsman but they say that the form cannot be retracted. Any advice?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did they send you a Letter Before Claim – it would have looked something like this: https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/
Where is your FOS complaint – waiting for an adjudicator or an Ombudsman?
Simon says
Hi Sara,
I did get a letter from Lowell but because I had not heard from Aqua so ignored it. I have phoned the FOS and it is not even with an adjudicator yet. Their advice was to fill the form in telling them that it is waiting for an adjudicator.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a shame – it would have been much easier to get things halted at that earlier letter point.
Their advice was to fill the form in telling them that it is waiting for an adjudicator.
FOS advised you to fill in what form – the court papers?
Have you previously asked Lowell for the CCA agreement for the card?
Simon says
Hi Sara,
Yes the claim form from the court. I don’t know what the CCA agreement is?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The CCA agreement is the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the debt. if you had asked for it before, when you were sent the Letter before Claim, and Lowell could not produce it, they would not have gone to court :(
Now you are in the much more complicated situation of having to defend the court case. You can also ask for it to be “stayed” until FOS reach a decision. But as you don’t know if you will win your FOS case, you also have to try to come up with a defence. And there are strict timescales to submit that defence where the clock has started running.
I do not give advice on court cases in progress. You can talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. And / or post on the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues. Legal Beagles will tell you all about the asking for the CCA now – it can be done, it is just more complicated – but push them for help on how to get the case stayed pending the FOS decision as well, they will see a lot fewer of those cases.
If you follow Legal Beagle advice and take this as far as you can, it will take a long while to come to court even if the case is not stayed. Your aim here is to slow everything down to give a chance for a FOS decision.
If you do end up with a CCJ and you win the FOS case, you can ask for the CCJ to be set aside.
Susan Carrington says
Hello again Sara,
I need some more of your advice and help. Further to my previous mail, I received 2 letters today (19th Sept.) from Robinson Way. The first one states that after investigating my complaint, they are prepared to accept my offer of £1,000. I made this offer due to the fact that I was receiving phone calls and letters from them and felt that I couldn’t pay the £1,631 that they were asking for. Since then, I contacted Step Change, and am waiting to hear back from them. What I also did, was write to Robinson Way asking them for copies of the CCA’s along with Statement of Accounts.
The 2nd letter that also arrived today stated “Further to your Consumer Credit Act request for the above account, (they put a Reference No. on the letter, but it does not relate to ANY correspondence that I have ever received from them) we write to advise that your request has been forwarded to our client, who will respond in due course. Your £1.00 fee will be returned to you under separate cover”.
The Postal Order that I sent was returned with the letter. I can’t do anything with the Postal Order as it is made payable to Robinson Way and was crossed.
Is it normal practice for a Debt Collection Agency to return a Postal order, and the fact that the reference number on their letter is not recognisable to me. I have not received any CCA’s or Statements of Accounts..
I am desperate for some advice Sara.
Thank You in advance for any help that you can give.
Susan.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Lots of creditors don’t cash the £1 cheques/postal orders.
So you don’t want to settle the debt instead you are setting up a DMP with StepChange?
Susan Carrington says
Hi Sara,
Not sure what the best thing to do is. If I set up a DMP with Step Change, could they revert back to wanting the £1,651? Also, not had any of the CCA’s from Robinson Way. (They stated that my request has been forwarded to their client, who will respond in due course). Would it be advisable to wait until (or if!) I receive them. (CCA’s) Robinson Way have given me 30 days to allow me to contact them and set up my payment of £1,000 to settle the account.
I don’t want to make payment and then find that First Direct cannot produce the CCA’s, as these debts go back pre-2007, and that maybe the debts are unenforceable. Also, as I have massive mental health issues, this whole thing is just exacerbating my anxiety and depression.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s hard to guess what RW will do. One way forward would be to set up a DMP with StepChange (I assume you have other problem debts as well?) and wait and see if the CCA is produced, if it isn’t, after a couple of months then tell StepChange you want to stop paying this debts. If it is produced, then you can again offer the settlement.
James says
Hi Sarah,
I had 6 Loans with Lending Stream between May -15 to August 15. These have now been subsequently sold onto Lantern DCA.
Over the last few years I’ve struggled with long term illness and the bereavement of two close family members. I am only now sorting myself out and getting back on top of things.
The issue with these loans is that Lending Stream has recorded down incorrect information. They have me listed down as Miss (I am a Mr.) and they have recorded my D.O.B as massively wrong. It’s about a Decade out.
Do you think it’s best that I raise an unaffordability complaint or do you think I use the fact that this information is recorded incorrectly to get my Defaults removed from my Credit File? Because the information is incorrect I have no way of speaking to Lantern because they use this info to verify customers under Data Protection. I’m stuck in a Catch 22 situation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So I suggest 2 things.
First you send Lending Steam an affordability complaint. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. If you can win this, LS will have to sort out the problem with Lantern.
And second you send Lantern an email saying they have a debt showing on your credit record – attach a copy of it – but you are unable to get through their telephone identity checks. Say they either need to delete the debt from your credit record if it is not yours or allow you to talk to them about it. Give your name, date of birth and postal address.
anthony townsend says
Dear Sara,
Thank you for your sterling efforts on behalf of all Debt Camel Debtors.
I had no knowledge of a CCJ (Lloyds Card £14k) dated 22nd September 2005, until I received notification of a Final Charging Order hearing in March 2007 (Order granted on April 16th 2007).
I don’t know if a Default Notice was issued. No interest has ever been added to the Judgement Sum.
The Debt was sold to Asset Link Capital (No5) Limited in June 2016. The account has been managed since the sale by Link Financial Outsourcing Limited, who have never initiated any enforcement action. Lloyds never took any enforcement action on the Charging Order.
I have made repeated requests through Subject Access Requests for the C.C.A. true copy dated June 1st 1978, Link didn’t supply it in its one response to S.A.Rs.
Should I try to get the Court file to discover what occurred?, offer five per cent of £14k in full and final settlement (I would have to borrow the money) on the grounds that the debt is unenforceable as no C.C.A. Agreement Copy dated June 1st 1978 has been provided?
I explicitly requested that document in particular in all emails to Link F O Ltd. Should a Default Notice under the C.C.A. have been issued before a Claim was initiated in the County Court? If everything was done correctly in Court, why would LLoyds sell the debt?
Thanking you in anticipation of any help / opinions.
Tony.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Once there is a CCJ, a creditor is not obliged to send you a copy of the CCA agreement.
I’m sorry but if you wanted to challenge the CCJ, the time to do this was in 2007 when you found out about it.
I doubt the creditor would accept a 5% offer and anyway it seems like a bad idea to borrow this money.
Is there a reason you cannot simply proceed to ignore this debt?
ANTHONY TOWNSEND says
Dear Sara,
Thank you for your reply.
In 2007 I attended the Final Charging Order hearing to make representations that as all of my three children were residing with me after my Divorce, and that the youngest was about eight at the time, that no Order for Sale should be granted until after my youngest child had completed Full Time Further Education. I also stated before the District Judge that I had no knowledge of the originating CCJ of September 2005. I was out of time to apply to set aside the CCJ in April 2007, as I am today. I had no knowledge in 2005 that the production of the C.C.A. (dated 1st June 1978) was so important. I had no funds in 2005 to engage a solicitor due to Divorce proceedings I initiated in 2003.
Will Link have to apply to Court for the Charge to be changed to their name? Will the C.C.A. need to be produced if Link apply for an Order for Sale?
I had hoped to resolve this issue as I am facing serious health challenges now, and want to get all of my affairs in order.
Kind regards.
Tony
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Will Link have to apply to Court for the Charge to be changed to their name?
I don’t know but I suspect this would be a formality if has to be done. Ask National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Will the C.C.A. need to be produced if Link apply for an Order for Sale?
No. After there is a CCJ the CCA is irrelevant.
ANTHONY TOWNSEND says
Dear Sara,
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.
I will contact National Debtline as you suggest.
Regards,
Tony.
Doug says
Hi Sara,
I have an old debt with a high street bank (loan) that was sold to the PRA group about 5 years ago. At the time I was in a DMP and the payments I was making continued when PRA took over the debt. I was then made redundant almost 2 years ago, and my DMP had reached a level where I was able to make full and final settlement offers to the various companies left on it, the largest debt was with PRA – approx £8k. I took advice on here and made a CCA request which they could not provide and they stated the debt was unenforceable. I then offered to make a F&F settlement of 5% of the debt which they refused to accept. I was contacted approx a year ago asking if my circumstances had changed, and I advised that it had not, but that my offer was still open to them.
Long story short, the debt is not on my credit file but they have contacted me recently (via email) saying they would be prepared to accept a 60% discount meaning I could pay £3200.
I dont want to accept the offer and still think that 5% is reasonable considering they purchased the debt for peanuts. So just wondered what my options are, I assume I can just ignore it. But is it worth opening correspondence with them again and going with the 5% I originally offered them?
Many thanks
Doug
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can offer the 5% again if you want. Or simply ignore it. Or tell them you will not be paying them anything. Is it that much hassle getting these odd emails once a year?
Paying £3200 to an unenforceable debt is ridiculous.
Doug says
Thanks for the advice Sara – makes perfect sense
Andrea says
I would like to know how I can prove the “Original Default” date for an old Marbles classic credit card account that was opened in 2005 and defaulted at some point around 2012? My reason for asking is that the DCA that bought the account (from the original creditor – HFC Bank I think) failed to notify Credit Ref agencies of the original default date. As a result, this account is still being reported to CRAs as an account in extreme arrears, with late payments flags in red and missing payments, all of which I have unsuccessfully disputed as this account should not even appear on the file still after all these years. I suspect the lack of report of original default was a deliberate act to favor the DCA keeping it re-aged and appearing to be live perhaps? How could I possibly obtain proof of the original default and that the original creditor or DCA failed to update this will be very appreciated as I intend to make a complaint through the FOS and the CRAs again but want to show them the proof. HFC Bank does not even exist anymore.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did the DCA buy the debt?
Did you stop paying the card at some point or were you making small agreed payments?
andrea says
The DCA bought it apparently in 2012. The account was paid pretty much continuously through a DMP to this date. The balance is currently around 1300 still owed they claim. They get about £16 per month but keep reporting late and missed payments. The DMP statements show they are being paid.
I was making small agreed payments and continue to do so although these today would be more than minimum payments for the present day balance if this were an actual credit card account
Sara (Debt Camel) says
HFC bank is no more but the FCA register shows philswann@hsbc.com as a contact for complaints, so you could try that.
Andrea says
Thank you for that – this got me researching and I have discovered that the Marbles brand was sold to SAV Credit in 2007 who acquired the brand from HSBC bank in 2007 and so I now believe it was SAV credit & The Royal Bank of Scotland who transferred it to Capquest. quite likely without reporting the original default date prior to sale of the defaulted account? I read that the original creditor has to report the Original Default date to CRAs according to ICO regs?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The problem is it is more likeOh that the original creditor never added a default date…
Andrea says
Would the original creditor be legally obliged now to update that information which would in effect the show true age of the account and have it deleted from the CRA records? I can prove also that ALL payments as per the agreement have and continue to get paid to Marbles,Capquest and their aliases DCAs going back to 2011 even though they report missing and late payments -it just seems so malicious what they are doing, they’re not even consistent with their inaccurate reports to each CRAs and especially as all of a sudden this has now appeared on Experian too with account (incorrect payments history) going back to 2014 soon after I complained! TransUnion just shows nearly every payment back to 2017 not being made and Equifax showing a whole tapestry of late payments back to 2016. I feel they are trying to destroy me. How do I deal with these people! I have also sent the DCAs, and original creditor CCA and Data protection request letters. I’m interested in seeing if this is even legally enforceable now. People need to know how to deal with and be warned about tactics used by Capquest, NCO Europe, and Arrow Global DCAs.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The age if the account doesn’t matter, what matters is whether a default date has been added.
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/dmp-credit-rating/. As that explains, payment arrangements may be recorded in different ways. Normally here you go back and ask the original creditor to add a default. If you cannot get hold if the original creditor you need to ask the debt collector to do thus and take your complaint to the Ombudsman if they refuse, arguing that you are being unfairly penalised by this long standing problem still being reported. You may not win.
If the debt collector cannot produce the CCA, the debt is legally unenforceable in court And you Dan stop paying. This will result in a default now and the debt dropping off your record in 6 years time.
bruce seaton says
Not sure If I have the right section, Sara, but I have a strange problem, in that, in February 2017, I had an unpaid debt outstanding to a doorstep company, they gave it to lowell group, who immediately took out a ccj before the 6 years statute deadline ran out, I agreed a minimal repayment of £2 a month, and have paid it right up till June this year, when due to covid, and being self employed I wrote to them asking saying I was struggling and could not afford to keep going on paying and getting nowhere, while the ccj stopped me borrowing for my business, I couldnt even get a business account. they refused this, but said if i couldn’t afford it, then I could stop my dd for the moment and they would not push for further action. Then in August I got word from the Financial ombudsman that they had upheld my complaint against the lender, and they should not have given me the loans they did, and that they had agreed to compensate me for the interest etc, as well as clear my credit file, and if they had given the debt to anyone else,they were to take it back. Today however i have received a letter from Lowell, saying i need to make an arrangement again with them to avoid further costs and legal action being taken. Should I continue to make my monthly payment of £2 until this is sorted, or does that make it harder for me to get the lender to sort it out? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you spoken to Provident about this? Have you told Lowell about the FOS decision?
bruce says
Hi Sara , Provident are not responding, not even to the decision that they have accepted from the FOS, and I didnt know whether to tell Lowell while still paying,or tell them and with hold payment. FOS have sent a further reminder email to provident, but said wait another few weeks, as they know provident “are behind and busy” ,then failing this i can ask the FOS for a final decision?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell Lowell what is happening – there is no downside to you doing this at all.
Colin says
Hi Sarah,
Old debt with lending stream sold to Lantern. Lantern have recorded the debt with Experian and Transunion but under different names. The one for Experian under lantern and one for Transunion under Motor Mile (I understand this is the old name for Lantern before they rebranded in 2018). Lantern bought the debt in January 2020 so unsure why they registered it under the old company name. Is this making my credit file appear worse because it appears as if there are 2 separate defaults? Also if a default has been raised on my credit file but no default notices sent (confirmed by the lender) are they in breach of the CCA and if so is it grounds to have the defaults removed? Not disputing the debt and happy to agree payment plan. kind regards Colin
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this making my credit file appear worse because it appears as if there are 2 separate defaults?
I don’t think so. Another lender looking at your credit records will not see the names of the creditors at all.
Also if a default has been raised on my credit file but no default notices sent (confirmed by the lender) are they in breach of the CCA and if so is it grounds to have the defaults removed?
No. A Default Notice under the CCA has nothing to do with a default being added to your credit record. Confusing, I agree.
BUT did you have other loans from LS before this one? How large is this one?
Paul says
Hi, I had an equity charge placed on my property in 2010 and the in 2011 the debt was sold to a cabot. Now that the original creditor is no longer owed the debt, why is there still a charge on my property under their name
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So far as I know, the charge can be changed into a different name. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 if you would like this confirmed, but I suggest you do not get your hopes up that this charge is going to simply vanish or is no longer effective.
Mathew says
Hello,
I recently found your site after my partner received a letter from Advantis:
‘Advantis provide professional services to a number of large organisations in the UK. This includes verifying the address of customers they’ve lost contact with but still need to speak to about a customer account.
One of our clients have instructed us to verify your current address. We are writing to confirm if the above address we hold is the correct address for you. Please get in touch as soon as possible so we can share more information’
The name on the latter is correct and so is the address.
Looking through all the advice is it best to ignore this letter as to not provide them with any more personal details? It has no details on who their client is and what they want (no debt amount or anything). If we get anything more with actual information that is accurate, I will consider sending a ‘Prove it’ letter. Is this the correct thing to do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Until they give sone clue about the debt, I see no reason to respond to thus sort of vague fishing expedition.
But if they respond with some details, have a think about whether your partner may actually owe this money. Was your partner paying debts when living at a previous address?
If your oartner has never had an account with X, then it’s good to say that, not send a genersl Non specific Prove It Letter
Lucy says
Hi Sara,
I have a similar situation as described by Alan here https://debtcamel.co.uk/sold-to-dca/comment-page-5/#comment-351034
The only difference is my timeline can be forwarded may 1 -2 years. So it would around 2011-2012 I stopped making any payment and left UK for some unforeseeable reason. I have never heard from any of the creditor nor I contacted or payed since then to any of them. Now Ruthbridge has contacted me asking for a payment on behalf of Cabot.
Can i just ignore these letters as my all 3 credit file is clear and nothing is mentioned from that era? Haven’t checked CCJ yet.
Also you have advised Alan to send a request for CCA. But in another thread you said to send the prove it letter first. Which one should I do first if I decided to response their letter?
Thanks in advance.
Lucy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That was a credit card? Do you remember when the account was opened?
Lucy says
Thanks for your reply. Yes it’s a credit card I think the account was opened around 2010. And I think after I left UK my flat mates exploited my details. What is the best course of action for me provided I never borrowed that money and now I have a family.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So when you left, there wasn’t a balance? Do you know if your flatmates made any payments to the card while you were away?
Lucy says
Hi Sarah, I don’t exactly remember. If I now go and dispute it that means I am acknowledging the debt. I don’t think my flat mates have made any payment other then spending it? But since I am back I am maintaining my credit and never delayed any payment.
BW
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So your situation is nothing like Alan’s. He had a very old debt. Yours is not so old AND there is chance that someone else has spent on the card while you were away.
If you just ignore these letters, you may well end up with a CCJ.
Disputing a debt doesn’t mean you acknowledge it. And IF this is already statute barred (I am not saying it is) then acknowledging it makes no difference, it will remain statute barred.
I suggest you talk to National Debtline about your options on 0808 808 4000 as this seems tangled as you don’t know if you owed money when you left and there is the question of how your flat mates knew the card details.
Annie says
Hi
I had a business with a partner who blew £20k bank loan so I left company. This debt caused me to have a breakdown and been on long term sick for over a year. I notified Bank last Nov who said that they would go after company for money as it is still trading. Ex business partner also shows he has other businesses on Linkedin. Didn’t hear anything until June when Moorcroft wrote to say I owed £2. When I phoned found debt from Bank been sold and they were asking for full £20k. I complained to bank that they had advised that they weren’t going after me, that being classed as a vulnerable person they shouldn’t have sold my debt and certainly not before communicating with me. They denied they had conversation with me in November, although they later seemed to agree about it and said they were awaiting feedback from department but closed the case without further communication. I have asked for SAR twice for all copies of communications and transcripts. The 1st time they said they had no info on me and 2nd time they only sent copies of original agreement. I have told them this is not acceptable but they have ignored me. I am currently receiving approx £460 per month from ESA which doesn’t even cover my minimum expenditure on food and essentials. What can I do when there is another person involved in debt who apparently is still in business but I have no way of paying?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was this loan in your name, in your business partner’s name or the name of the company and you guaranteed it?
Apart from this debt, do you have other debts problems? Are you buying or renting?
christopher nichol says
Hi sara, could you possibly advise me on my situation. I have had multiple payday loans with the same lender/lenders by this i mean quick quid and pounds to pocket which are all cashneteuro the same company. I put forward a claim of irresponsible lending with quick quid which was upheld and piad compensation as the loans was all fully paid up. the pounds to pocket side i have a loan outstanding from about 6 years ago which has now been found to be irresponsible lending, howether the debt has been sold to PRA group debt collectors who are chasing me for the debt as you will be aware the administrators are looking into the claims and it says my claim payout will be considerably lower than the claim amount, i know wonga and other payday lenders i had loans with paid about 6p to the pound in compensation and writ off outstanding debts which i didnt have any outstanding debt but i do have one oustanding with pounds to pocket will this be writen off or should i still pay the debt collection agency who they have sold the debt to? sorry for the long comment and can i just say what a great job you do thanks chris
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the pounds to pocket side i have a loan outstanding from about 6 years ago which has now been found to be irresponsible lending
You have had a decision from the adminstrators?
christopher nichol says
yes i have had a email saying that my claims have been upheld 12 in total from quick quid and 2 from pounds to pocket as my outgoings was more than my incomings. The 2 from pounds to pocket was a loan repaid in full and the loan with a outstanding balance that has been sold to PRA debt collectors
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, just to check this hasn’t been in an email in the last two days has it?
Stacey says
Hi there.
I have recently notice a default on my account for £400 from a creditor agency, I have one for the same debt already on my account and emailed the lender 2019 and asked then why it was on my account if I could sort this out. I didn’t receive any letters from the lender to say my account was in arrears or had defaulted but recently 3 years later got a letter from the lender to say they failed to send me a NOISA letter? I raised this with tran union and they said my account was sold to the creditors March 2020, surely this is not the case as I have emails to when I emailed lender 2019 and they said I could not settle my account as it had been sold, I’m disputing the default for the collectors as I have not had any informantin form them my account was put on hold until I dispute this?
I had been approved a mortgage in principle 3 weeks before seeing this On my account where do i stand? My credit score with credit club was 915 now 696 3 weeks later the debt is from 2017 I have raised a dispute with tranunion and sent them all the emails and letters and correspondence from the lender saying I couldn’t fix it as account was sold I have also sent all the emails to say it was sold 18 months after they said I could fix it and all the emails to the talks with creditor to dispute this and the default letter the lender sent me 2020 June to notify me I was entitled to claim due to a technical breech in the consumer act.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you were told in 2019 that the account had been sold, that was the point you should have followed this up and talked to the debt collector.
This is pretty likely to cause a big problem for your mortgage application – did you go through a mortgage broker?
Stacey says
I did but they said they didn’t have the debt it’s a different company that has put a default on the account and the tea union said the account was only sold March 2020
Ye I went with a mortgagee adviser
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, but you should have asked who it was sold to and talked to them then. debts don’t just disappear :(
TransUnion can probably only see when the debt was added by the debt collector – that has nothing to do with when the debt was sold.
Tell your mortgage adviser what has happened now.
Stacey says
Thanks.
Spoke to all company’s paid the debt and also got a letter to say they are removed the default as it was incorrectly put on my file. Was showing as a loan instead of a mail order. My morgage is currently waiting till my score imporoves as it dropped 220 points for this error
Chris says
Hello, I’m just after some advice please.
I have an outstanding debt of £15630 which was initial with Nationwide building society and has now been sold to arceurope.
The debt is over 6 year old and has now been removed from my credit file, which now read as excellent.
A few months before Nationwide sold the debt I asked for a settlement and they came back with around £4500, unfortunately I was not in the position to pay this, Once the debt was sold I contacted arceurpe and asked for a settlement figure and they came back with £14000 !! I am curranty paying £40 a month.
During the 6 years a notice of correction appeared on my credit file, which read as none enforceable, which Nationwide explained that this was just an administration process??
Couple of questions.
Can this debt be picked up by mortgage leaders? even that my credit file is now excellent.
What should I offer as a Full and final settlement?
Many thanks
Chris
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can this debt be picked up by mortgage leaders?
yes – they will see the £40 a month payments.
I don’t know why Nationwide said the debt was not enforceable – did you not get a clear explanation from Nationwide?
It matters a LOT if the debt is now enforceable by Arc.
Chris says
Thanks for the reply Sara,
The note on my credit file reads like this.
Please note that this default relates to an agreement which the creditor considers to be unenforceable.
I asked Nationwide and if I recall correctly they said it had to do with the interest on the loan…..
I think I can find around £4000, would this be enough for a F&F ? and would it help regarding mortgage searches?
Why are the £40 payments not being picked up on my credit file? Do they do a different search?
Many thanks again Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you need to ask Nationwide exactly why the loan is unenforceable. It may be there is no need to pay arc anything and you can stop paying them…
if the debt defaulted over 6 years ago, the current payments won’t show on your credit record.
A says
Hi. I currently have an IVA in place with x number of creditors receiving their portion. However one of the creditors has sold the debt to a collection firm. Do they have the right to amend a preexisting IVA or to demand I pay sooner than is already agreed by the selling party?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, the new creditor is bound by the IVA. tell your IVA firm what has happened – it’s their admin problem from here on, not yours.
Drew says
Hello, I am going through a bankruptcy (will be released in 5-6 months) and my debt which was roughly 2.5k has been sold from Aqua to “LC ASSET 2” (never heard of them before. Why would they sell this debt when they have already defaulted my account and KNOW that I am bankrupt, and better yet, why would this company BUY the debt? It really doesn’t make sense to me unless they are planning to screw me over in 5 months by saying I incurred this debt after my bankruptcy order or something. (Or just waiting till im released and then trying to retrieve funds)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This does happen. I am never sure why. But it normally isn’t anything to worry about.
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/discharged-from-bankruptcy/ and ask for a confirmation letter saying you have been discharged and then keep that permanently.
Gaz says
Hi, I’m in a bit of a situation and not sure what to do for the best. I spent 6 weeks off work ringing every debt line and charity I could. SC have advised that I do nothing and wait for court action then offer the CCJ £1 a month because we can’t afford anything else. Once we can free up spare cash then they said enter into a Iva. So that is what I’ve done but I’ve also done some extra work in the background….so…quick run down, found out Xmas eve 2019 that my wife has got in a mess with debt. Her debts total circa £35k ( she doesn’t work) but also found out that another £35k was taken out in my name which I didn’t know about. When I questioned her she didn’t realise they were in my name and thought they were in her name (payments came out of joint bank account) that she looked after. I spoke to all credit company’s and apart from 1 that marked it fraudulent the rest said it was a civil matter and that I owed the money. After that the company’s tried to phone me but I couldn’t pass security because I didn’t know the answers to their questions. So my debts were left there. I contacted the ombudsman for my wife’s debts because she wasn’t working and racked up all that debt, they have come back and said that a couple have been upheld due to irresponsible lending, so don’t know what to expect from that. Please note that bank statements prove that all the debt was used to pay for debt payments. Any suggestions or keep plugging away at the ombudsman?
Thanks
Gaz
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I ask what the money was spent on?
I assume you have a jointly owned house with equity?
Gaz says
The money was mainly spent on paying for other credit cards and loans, that’s what the bank statements show. The main problem was Barclaycard kept increasing the amount on the card and she couldn’t afford the payments. When I complained, they said my wife asked for these increases (which aren’t true), they were proactively increased. The ombudsman have investigated and decided not to uphold it, now it’s waiting for a ombudsman for review. Yes we have a jointly owned home with about 30-40k equity that’s why they have advised us not to go bankrupt. Also we have 5 children with only myself who works so there is a affordability problem. To give you some idea where the money went…after my wages went in and payed the bills we still had over £2k of debt payments to find each month. Surprisingly she was able to make every debt payment without any missed payments, so no red flags…hence all the debt.
Thanks
Gaz
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So any affordabilty complaints you can win will reduce the debts.
Have you been told to offer all your creditors – hers and yours – £1 now? This should be done now don’t wait for court action. You should include and income and expenditure statement and a complete list of the debts with each offer. Many creditors won’t even think of a CCJ.
If there are still creditors where you can’t get past the security, you need to put in a written complaint, saying your wife took these out, you are happy to agree they are your debts and you want to make a monthly payment offer but you can’t get past the security.
Gaz says
Yes offer all the debts £1. We did expenses with SC and that came out at -£150 per month. They advised that if I offer each creditor £1 then I would be acknowledging the debt or I can wait for CCJ and off them £1 each. My debts that I knew nothing about, wouldn’t I have any legal right to argue it? Or could I complain then take that to the ombudsman? Or isn’t there any point?
Thanks
Gaz
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If your wife owns half of the house you haven’t really saved anything at all if the debts are moved into her name, have you? And it is pretty hard to show that you weren’t aware of what she was doing.
BUT if SC say you have negative disposable income of £150 a month, that is presumably why the unsecured debts started to increase. Is your mortgage very expensive?
Gaz says
I don’t think it is, it’s about £550 per month. Total household income is about £3k. Our 5 children take up most of the income that was included in SC figures.
It’s frustrating that someone else can take out debts in my name. If they walked into a bank that would never happen.
We looked into a IVA but I was suspicious how many companies want to sign you up so quick and how they always say any other company is a bad choice but theirs is the best…including SC and citizens advice. So kept away for now but also we don’t have the disposable income. But some companies still wanted to sign us up.
I’m hoping to get the figure down by complaining to the FO and sending prove it letters then finally entering into some kind of insolvency or DMP. is this wise? Would you advise trying keep clear of CCJ’S or doesn’t it matter if you get 1 or 10?
Or trying get the debts moved over into my wife name then her going bankrupt and me trying to raise her half of the house to buy her share back?
Sara,
I do appreciate your help, this is the most help I have had from the start 12month ago.
Thanks
Gaz
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Without a stable amount of surplus income an IVA would be a disaster.
For what it’s worth, there are very few complaints about StepChange IVAs. Citizens Advice don’t do IVAs, they will refer you out, typically to StepChange but some local CAs may have an arrangement with a local IVA firm. Without something unusual (eg unusual assets, large business debts, partnership arrrangements) I would suggest StepChange.
If you end up in insolvency, there actually isn’t much advantage to having reduced the debts! But in a DMP you are repaying the debts so eny that you can get reduced will be a big help.
But if you are going for an IVA you do not want CCJs as the creditors can then get a charge over your house and then the debt cant go into the IVA. definitel;y better tooffer token payment now and hope to avoid CCJs.
How old are the children? Any chance of some of them leaving home soon? Or your wife getting a job?
Gaz says
Youngest is 1 and oldest is 14 so no time soon. Also the wife can’t work anytime soon because of child care.
Just so I understand more, once a single CCJ is added to my file, I then can enter into a IVA and the CCJ will be included? This also stops them from applying for a charging order on the property as long has I’m paying the IVA? Also is there a strict rule that if they don’t write to every creditor advising of the charging order then there is a case to get that debt set aside?
I understand that both of us would need to enter into a IVA, but let’s say if one of us can reduce their debt, would a DRO be better?
I see your point about complaining and trying to reduce it, when at the end all the debt will go into the pot anyway.
Thanks
Gaz
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can get an IVA without having a CCJ at all.
A CCJ can be included in an IVA but not if the creditor has gone to court for a charging order. As you also have a good salary, a creditor who has a CCJ may also go to court to get a deduction from your wages instead of a charging order. You do not want CCJs so make token offers now!
Also is there a strict rule that if they don’t write to every creditor advising of the charging order then there is a case to get that debt set aside?
No, that is completely wrong. Not sure what you are getting confused by, all creditors don’t have to be informed of a charging order.
There is very little chance an IVA would be put forward by any reputable firm at the moment.
A DRO is ruled out as you jointly own a property.
Gareth says
Ok understood.
SC were the ones who advised about the charging order, so maybe the wrong advise.
So token payment it is then and see what comes up in the future.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
or possibly you misunderstood it…
Gaz says
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/charging-orders/#h-stopping-a-final-charging-order-being-made
“A charging order is unfair on your other creditors“
This is what I was talking about and advised by SC, SC said they would need to write to all other creditors to ask the court to dismiss the claim.
So not completely wrong….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes but this doesn’t often work…
Mwelwa says
Hi Sara,
I have had a default of about 5k removed from my credit report after it reached 6yrs. This is an amount that was for an unsecured loan from a high street bank. I have been offered 50% off to settle the debt with a debt collector who had purchased this from the bank. Im not sure whether this will go back on my credit report as a partial payment once I pay it. My last question is will any mortgage lenders be able to see this even after it has been removed from my credit file?
Thanks for discussion.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Im not sure whether this will go back on my credit report as a partial payment once I pay it.
No it won’t.
Will any mortgage lenders be able to see this even after it has been removed from my credit file?
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/mortgage-debts-not-on-credit-record/ which looks at this subject.
Darren says
Hi Sara,
I’m from London but have had to stay with my girlfriend for most of the year due to Covid rules. Whilst out there HSBC blocked my account and wouldn’t tell me why. I’m back in London now and have received a letter to say I am no longer wanted banking with them and I will receive a letter of demand for money owed for Money Laundering / Fraud, which I have not been involved in!!
My question is, what chances do I have of being able to fight this and having them write off the debt / not selling it on and not leaving me with a CCJ or Cifas marker? And how do I go about it as i understand an agreement has to be made within 21 days?
I’ve been a victim of identity theft / fraud and put a protective cifas cat 2 marker on myself at the end of 2018 and have also found out that someone applied for a Bounce Back Loan in my name this year! Do I have any chance of being able to fight this? I have no savings this year due to losing events work and any of these charges / markers will ruin me.
Thanks for your time,
Darren
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you talked to HSBC about this?
I suggest you talk to National Debtline or (if you were self-employed or had a small limited companu) Business Debtline. They re-open on Monday 4th Janyaury.
Darren says
Thanks, I have emailed them but still waiting on response but the letter says that the form of demand is non-negotiable so just wanted to know if you’ve ever had anyone in this situation / could offer advice. I’m not a Ltd company though.
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is hard to know what to say until you have some idea what has caused the problem.
Raj says
Hi Sara
I had 2 months arrears (October and November 2020) with Nationwide and then to my horror Nationwide have placed an (8) on my Experian credit today with a default. The previous month score status was (1) and (0) before.
I paid the full 2 months arrears to a company called ARC Europe Ltd on 27th November 2020, so the arrears was less than 3 months.
I have written to Nationwide and ARC, and so awaiting a reply, but I checked the ICO rules and they say the default should be after 3 months and usually 6 months. Is this correct and would I be correct to ask them to correct my file ? I would be OK if the status was (2) but the (8) has really knocked my previous high score.
I had a similar situ before some months ago when I lost my job, but they correctly recorded (2) but not on this occasion.
Thanks for your advise/guidance.
Regards
Raj
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you are right. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/ which looks at thus in more detail.
Suzanne says
Hi – I had DMP a few years back. One of the debtors was Very & they sold my debt on to another company. I paid the new company & cleared my DMP. My credit report is showing the default of the balance outstanding with Very & they still have my account open with this balance. Can I ask if they can close the account & although the default is still just under 6 years, should it be showing with s balance as they sold it on? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, they should have done this before when they sold the debt. The balance should be zero.
Suzanne says
Great thank you, I have just contacted Very & they have said it is their mistake & the default should be zero so they are going to update the credit agencies. Thanks again & happy new year.
T says
I had a debt with 118 money. Its been sold to moorcroft. Who do I make a complaint to for the loan being mis-sold? Can this be wiped if it is with moorcroft?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You complain to 118, they are the one that mis-sold the loan. If your complaint is upheld, they will sort this out with the debt collector.
T says
Thanks Sara,
Where is the best template letter for this as I have seen a few.
The remaining balance is around 2K would this be wiped if upheld or just interest removed?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Use the one here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ and that is the best place for questions in future.
How much did you borrow? How much have you paid so far, to 118 or the debt collector?
T says
I borrowed £1600, with £1415.36 interest (total £3015). Paid £1600 and remaining is £2307 with Moorcroft.
I was a PhD student at the time with just a bursary to help my studies. This was sold to me when I was not on an actual taxable wage. As this ran out near the end of my studies I defaulted, and now we are here.
Tanja says
Hi,
Just came up with your site doing quite a bit of reading and hope you could help. My partner received a letter from dcbl ‘Notice of debt recovery’ which states ‘Your overdue amount of £3,905.49 due to Debt Law in relation to an unpaid debt has now been passed to DCBL to recover the debt on their behalf.’ Due to debt law…what debt exactly??? Not my partner nor I have a clue what the debt could be about – can’t think of anything and have no debt, not to our knowledge. I don’t know what to do – contact them, demand a letter of prof or just ignore it unless more letters arrive? I’ll probably be the one dealing with it as my partner’s carer who’s been battling with mental disability for years now. The letter continues ‘to ensure no further action will take place make immediate payment by one of the following methods’ ……….and on the back it states ‘This case is not subject to High Court or Bailiff Action.’
Sara (Debt Camel) says
DCBL are bailiffs but they also do other debt collecting.
I suggest your partner sends a Prove It letter, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/prove-it/. But adds to that letter that they have no knowledge of owning any debt to anyone. See what comes back…
Tanja says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for your advice….my partner has sent the ‘prove it’ letter ……was sent on 5th January, but today we got a letter from dcbl (which is dated 5th) for ‘Legal Recovery Action’ as we he hasn’t been in touch within 14days of the first letter – as letters were coming with a delay over the holidays I did not pay attention to the date of the letter! They haven’t bought the debt as the letter states ‘We have now recommended to our client the commencement of legal action against you.’ …and it continues with possible impacts of having a CCJ registered against my partner….Should we wait for ‘prove it’ letter or write a complaint…or call them or……what? Still have no clue after wrecking our brains what it could be……
Tanja
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This isn’t the start of legal action, it’s just a threatening letter trying to get you to pay them money.
Look out for getting a “Letter before Action/Claim” – that is the first step in legal action. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ which explains what one of these looks like and what you should do if you get one.
I suggest you give them another two weeks and then call them and say you have not had a reply to your letter dated 5 January.
Stacy says
Hi sara i have a few debts 6+ years ago which have came to my attention through lowell. Infact some of them are more near 10* mark
Sky
Edf
Newday
Ee limited
Wfs- now in liquidation
Brighthouse caversham
Do you have any help towards either getting this wiped as most my debts were cleared now due to be unaffordable not sure if these would aplly
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you been making payments to these debts?
Sonya says
Morning all. I am looking at getting some early settlement figures from some debts I have. My questions, does anyone know how these are worked out? I want to make sure I am getting the best deal
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The calculations are set out in law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/1483/made
There isn’t an easy way for you to do them.
Mwelwa says
Hi Sara,
Happy New year.
I have been negotiating with a Debt collection agency and the have offered me 50% off a c£4k debt (unsecured loan) originally with a high street bank. The debt has since come off my credit file. My question is would it be prudent to just pay the £2k or maybe ask for a CCA agreement in the hope to make a lower offer. I’m also concerned that requesting a CCA might make me loose the offer currently on the table once they provide a CCA if they have it. But I do appreciate they must have paid a few pence to the pound on my file. Also what is the likelihood the high street bank will pass on agreements.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
has the debt collector bought the debt? or are they collectin on behalf of the original lender?
50% isnt a particularly generous offer for such an old debt.
Do you have other debt problems as well, or just this one?
Mwelwa says
Thanks Sara,
Yes the debt collector has indeed bought the debt. the time line is as follows : – default in 2014 and moved into banks internal collections 2015 and sold onto this collector in 2016 and dropped off my file in September 2020. I’m trying to apply for a mortgage and just trying to make up a deposit and also see off this debt. and yes its my only debt. the claim to be happy for me to make token payment but have been keen to get me to pay 50%. I’m not sure whether to go ahead and request a CCA agreement without upsetting the apple kart if you know what I mean.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So it’s a guess as to whether the debt collector can produce the CCA agreement.
My guess is if they can. they will still be keen to get this settled at 50%, but that is also a guess.
Linda says
Hi
I wonder if you can help me.
In 2017 I could no longer keep up with payments, and I called Step Change to handle my affairs, which they have been for the past four years. Last year I took a sudden interest in building my credit score due to career development as well as looking to buying a property. I noticed all but 4 out of 5 debt is on my credit file as default. The 5th debt belonging to Next is no where on my file. In fact it has never been recorded. I called Step Change and they found it weird since the account has been passed to a debt collection agency. I contacted the debt collection agency and they stated they can not add anything onto my record but the creditors. Contacted the creditors and they referred me back to the debt agency.
Now I’m confused regarding why it wasn’t registered 4 years ago. My question is, should it have been? Is there any reason for them to register it now. If they register it on my file now, can I argue for this to be back dated to 2017?
Thank u
Weatherman says
Hi Linda
Next should have told the credit reference agency that the debt has defaulted. It’s up to Next to add that, even if they’ve sold the debt to someone else. And it should usually be when you’re 3-6 months in arrears, so you should certainly argue for it to be backdated.
If Next won’t do it, you should complain to them, and then to the Financial Ombudsman Service if they still won’t.
Linda says
Thank You Weatherman. For now I will not say anything, as there is absolutely no records whatsoever on my credit file. No entry from Next nothing. It’s like my debt never existed. I will aim to pay it off and hopefully they won’t default my account now. But if they do I will inform the financial ombudsman to back date it. It’s weird because the debt has been sold to do debt agency and absolutely nothing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you looked at your credit records with all three credit reference agencies?
Linda says
Hi Sara,
Yes I have. The debt with Next has never ever been recorded. I’m super confused why it has not.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Weird!
carl says
I have a debt with capital one credit card of 2600 due through gambling , I have been making token payments of £1 a month for the past 2 years, I have mental health issues and thinking about it makes it worse every day. a family member has offered to pay a one off payment to clear the debt would they except a lesser payment ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this your only debt?
Have you had help with your gambling problem?
carl says
HI Sarah, Yes I no longer gamble and no I have another card with 8000 which is also £1 a month at the moment, but the family member can only help pay one off, as she was thinking paying one is better than none and is one less to worry about if that makes sense as she doesnt want me to worry about it being sold on to a DC
Weatherman says
Hi Carl
The risk here is that this payment is treated as a ‘preferential payment’ to one creditor over another. This would mean it’s unlikely you could get a formal solution like bankruptcy or a Debt Relief Order in the next few years – which would write off your debts altogether. You can still use these solutions even if a debt collection agency buys the debt.
To avoid this, your family member could make payments that treat all your creditors equally (e.g. 10% of each debt).
But two years is a long time to be making token payments, and particularly with your mental health problems it seems worth asking the companies to write off your debt altogether. You should include an ‘income and expenditure’ sheet to show you can’t make higher payments, as well as a Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form. A debt advisor can help you with all of this, for free – National Debtline’s number is: 0808 808 4000