Do you have to keep making payments to old debts?
It can be easy to get stuck in a long-term Debt Management Plan (DMP) or payment arrangements. If you are paying little each month, your debts will take a very long while to be gone.
This article looks at the questions people often ask about old debts where they have been making monthly payments to the debts.
If you haven’t been making payments, read No calls or letters about a debt for years as that is a very different situation.
Must I pay a debt that has dropped off my credit file?
A debt drops off your credit file six years after the default date. Most debts in a low payment DMP will have been defaulted (if one of yours hasn’t, read What should the default date for a debt be? because you may be able to get this changed) so after six years these literally disappear and your credit score improves.
But these debts still exist.
Even though they are old, they will never become “statute barred” (that is the legal term for a debt that is too old for a creditor to enforce) because you are making payments to them.. See When is a debt statute barred? for more details about this.
So if you don’t want hassle from the debt collector that owns the debt and possibly CCJs, bailiffs etc, then the answer is Yes, you do need to keep paying the debt – or settle it in some way.
If the debt is old, the paperwork may be missing
There is another possibility for some old debts that is worth exploring.
If the debt is a consumer credit debt – that is all types of loans, credit cards and catalogues but not including overdrafts – then the debt collector may not be able to produce correct Consumer Credit Act documentation. If they can’t, then they can’t take you to court for a CCJ and you can simply stop paying…
This is a very good chance this could happen for debts that were started before 2007. And it’s worth trying for more recent debts that have been in a payment arrangement or debt management for many years and have been sold to a debt collector.
This National Debtline factsheet explains how to ask the debt collector to send you the CCA agreement. And National Debtline are good people to talk to if you are sent something and you aren’t sure if it is correct or complete.
Am I really likely to get a CCJ for an old debt?
If you stop paying the debt, then it is much more likely the debt collector will go for a CCJ. Think of your creditor as snoozing quietly whilst your small monthly payments roll in – as soon as they stop, he is likely to wake up and rethink what to do!
Recently the number of CCJs has increased a lot – up to 320,000 in January-March 2019. Half of these CCJs were for less than £650, so don’t think your debt is too small for a debt collector to go to court!
If you carry on making the monthly payments, it is possible that you could get a CCJ. This may feel unfair – you have had a long-term arrangement with your creditor and you have kept your side of the agreement by making monthly payments – but legally the creditor can still get a CCJ.
But your debt is costing very little to administer, so the debt collector will often prefer to carry on getting small amounts of money from you each month to the hassle and expense of taking court action.
When a debt is sold to another debt collector, they may decide to look again at your situation – your credit file, your income and expenditure. In a DMP, your DMP firm will send them a new I&E every year, but in a payment arrangement, you may be asked to send one.
It’s best not to ignore a request from a debt collector for a new I&E. Although you don’t have to give them these details the new debt collector may decide you could be paying more and go for a CCJ if you won’t co-operate.
You are a bit more likely to get a CCJ if you have a house – a creditor can see from your credit file if you have a mortgage and may assume that equity has built up. The odds are that you won’t, but having a long term DMP with a house with a lot of equity can be a problem.
If I get a CCJ will the debt reappear on my credit file?
After a debt has dropped off it will never come back. But this isn’t good news because the CCJ itself will show on your credit file for six years, even if you settle it in full. (There is one an exception here – if you pay a CCJ in full within a month it will disappear.)
Is it a good idea to negotiate Full & Finals on these debts?
Definitely! Even if paying £5 a month to a debt doesn’t feel like much of a problem, it is always possible the debt collector will threaten court action and ask for more.
If a final settlement is agreed, the debt will not reappear on your credit file. A Guide to Full and Final Settlements has more information, including how to make an offer. If your debts have changed hands several times, the current creditor may have paid very little for the debt, possibly only pennies in the pound.
It’s not easy to say what you should offer – that will depend on:
- what you are paying – if the debt will be repaid in a couple more years the creditor may not be interested in a low offer;
- what you could afford to pay – it will help to get an offer accepted if you provide an Income& Expenditure sheet that shows you can’t afford to increase your monthly payments;
- if have a house with equity – this doesn’t mean a F&F will be refused, but it makes it less likely that a very low one will be agreed.
Where could you get the money for a F&F? If you already have PPI complaints underway, they could also help. But it’s now too late to start a new one. One idea that may work if you have had a lot of debts, especially high-cost debts, is making an affordability complaint.
Don’t borrow money to make a settlement offer. At the moment all the old debts will have interest frozen, don’t swap that for a new creditor charging interest.
Can you get a mortgage if you are in a DMP?
Information about charging orders
Ask for the CCA agreement for old debts
Robert says
HI, I have an overdraft debt going back to 1997, I’ve been paying around £50 per month since then and never missed a payment for over 20 years now, I’ve not heard from them at all for probably at least ten years, I’ve moved five times (two of them abroad) in that period so they’ve probably lost track of me, the debt was around £60k and I’ll clearly never pay it of in my natural life, since then I’ve rebuilt my life and my credit but what do I do about this, I’m reluctant to make contact since after all this time and I would really struggle to settle it if I they wanted me too. I’m not sure what to do and it’s really worrying me now, any advice welcome, thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You had an overdraft of £60,000 ?
Jenny says
And they allowed you to ONLY pay back £50 a month???
Diane says
I am on a DMP with stepchange and I have never missed a payment in over 6yrs, I’m paying the minimum amount back to then, can you tell me do I still have to keep paying until all my debt until it’s cleared off , Estimated another 7yrs, or does it automatically clear after the 6yrs? Will my credit score be going up now as I’ve never ever missed a payment?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The debts still legally exist and you can be taken to court for a CCJ even after they have disappeared from your credit record. If you stop paying, this is likely to happen so yes, you do need to keep on paying.
Your credit score is likely to get a LOT better if all your debts in the DMP were defaulted as they will be dropping off your credit record.
BUT read the section in the article above on If the debt is old, the paperwork may be missing as this may work for some of your debts, so your DMP will end sooner.
Jamie says
So if my debtor dosent have a CCA for me I can stop paying them ? Will there be any consequence?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The creditor has to produce a true copy of your CCA, not the original one. If they can’t, then credit card, catalogue, HP or loan is unenforceable in court.
How does it currently show on your credit record? How old is the debt? What sort of debt was it? Has it been sold to a debt collector?
Martin says
Hi Sara – I have an old HP debt that goes back to 1997 (yes it’s 22 years old). I’ve been paying £4 let month as per a CCJ from 15 years ago. The debt as been resold 4 times and the current and previous debt owners know nothing about the CCJ. They have previously asked me to provide them with evidence of the CCJ which I’ve declined. But it occurs to me they may also be unable to provide a copy of the CCA. It’s only £4 per month and at this rate I’ll never actually pay the debt off. It’s it worth asking for a copy of the CCA or could I be poking a wasps nest?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you saying the current creditor knows there was a CCJ but doesnt have the details?
what do you think the balance is?
Martin says
Hi Sara – sorry for delayed response. Newest owner of the debt knows nothing about the CCJ and keep asking me to complete a new income and expenditure form. The debt is just over £6k. I would love to get it written off if they can’t provide CCA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can ask them for one… I suppose the danger is they may ask the previous debt collector and find out about the CCJ?
Andrew says
Hi Sara
Thanks for this article.
I’ve been on a StepChange DMP for some time now, just reaching 6 years from the date all of my accounts defaulted and the last couple drop off my credit file 31/12/19. At the current rate I am set for another 9 years of repaying. I have CCA’d all of the current debt holders. Some have confirmed and sent info to say enforceable. I have 3 particular accounts which are with IDEM (2 of them) and another Lowell. All 3 related to overdrafts with Halifax current accounts. 1 joint and 2 individual we are in a joint DMP.
I’m unsure if these overdraft debts are enforceable via CCJ. The reponse from both comapanies doesn’t really say is or isn’t, just says not coverered by CCA etc. I’d like to prioritise my payments to the other debts but obviously step change won’t differentiate and just say they all need to remain in the plan and paid.
If I were to stop using Stepchange and deal direct with each company as a way of not paying some, is there any chance of a CCJ on these 3 overdraft related debts?
Thanks
Andrew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Some have confirmed and sent info to say enforceable. “
so they have sent the CCA agreements?
Are there other non-overdraft debts where the CCA hasn’t been sent?
“I’m unsure if these overdraft debts are enforceable via CCJ.”
A CCA isn’t relevant for these. And yes the debt collectors could go for a CCJ for them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also how much do the debts where a CCA has been produced add up to?
How much do the overdraft debts add up to?
And how much can you may to the combined debts each month?
Andrew says
Thanks Sara.
They sent CCA agreements for all apart from PRA on one Barclaycard debt for £4k who couldn’t produce.
The overdraft related amounts to £2750 across 3 accounts.
The CCA produced just over £18k combined.
We pay £220 a month currently. Paid off around 15k so far and 25k remaining.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
StepChange should drop the Barclaycard debt from the DMP if you send them the letter saying it is unenforceable.
There is no reason to prioritise the other debts over the overdrafts, they are all enforceable in court.
Unless you have money for a full & final, you should be looking at your other options such as a bankruptcy or an IVA. Are you buying or renting? Are you both working?
Andrew says
Ok thanks Sara I will request the CCA again on that account as it was around 1 year ago. If still the same I will send and ask SC to drop it but I think they will resist. This is the kind of response they gave when I asked them to remove the debt before, when PRA told us they had frozen it until CCA paperwork found.
“With regards to enforcement, PRA Group have decided not to take legal action. This means you can pay the debt off without incurring any further charges on the account.” Clearly they are working for the agencies interests and funded by the banks, such a stupid answer from them.
Hoping we can get some money ready to clear down in the next 3 years and walk away with a clean credit file and everything sorted. Only 1 person working and we rent. Worried about damaging credit file again if we needed to move or get a newer car (current is old) I think we could do that without having the DMP cancelled as they are essential items for us.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No don’t start this cycle again! tell StepChange that PRA have still not found the paperwork and as the debt is unenforceable you want it removed from your DMP. If StepChange refuse, send StepChange a formal complaint.
Andrew says
OK I will do that and let you know if it moves to a complaint – thanks
Shantelle says
I was with Santander in 2006 and just been informed I owe 154.00 ,i dont remember owing this so have asked for proof from the bank,if i do get proof do i have to pay it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who contacted you about this?
Paul says
Morning Sara,
I have a Credit card with HSBC that i haven’t made and payment to since March 2019, looking at my credit report the interest has been frozen on the account but it hasn’t yet registered as a default. If repaying is not an option what would you recommend to get this account default (to start the six year clock)
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this your only debt problem? Might you be able to settle it in the next few years?
Paul says
Hi Sara
Yes it is and i will be able to settle in 12 months or so for sure. Just which option would be better in the long run? If i leave it as it is and then it gets defaulted in 6 months ive lost that 6 months if you understand?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t want a default if it can be avoided when the debt can be settled that soon. I suggest you wait and settle the debt as soon as possible. If at any point they add a default date, you can ask for it to be backdated to September 2019, 6 months after ayou missed a payment.
Paul says
ok, thanks for your help Sara. I wish you well
Paul
Alun Hughes says
Hi Sara
I have been paying a £4000 CCJ since June 2008 at £20 a month, I still owe around £1200.
It was originally an EGG Credit Card. The £20 gies to Capquest Investment, but its Drydensfairfax Solicitors that I get my paperwork from. But I had a strange phone call from them last week asking who I was paying, and could I pay them direct
What would happen if I just cancelled the direct debit and stoped paying
Regards
Alun
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s possible they can try to enforce an old CCJ that you have been paying – you could talk to National Debtline about this on 0808 808 4000.
If you get any more odd phone calls, I suggest you ask them to put it in writing.
Steve says
Hello Sara
I have a CCJ from almost 4 years ago that I knew nothing about until recently, the dept is from credit taken out (one of many) in fraud under my name by my parents who have both now passed away. All the other companies involved at the time either wrote the debt off or accepted minimal payments. Barclay however it would appear have taken a CCJ out I would assume on the last date it would have been enforceable as I the debt was incurred back in 2010.
I have never had any paper work for the CCJ or had any bailiff letters and I have had no letters from Barclays regarding the debt since 2012. I have no intention of paying the debt and I know the CCJ will fall off my credit score in 2 years. My question is will that CCJ be active for the rest of my life (but off my credit score) and therefore be enforceable by bailiffs for the rest of my life?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the CCj hasn’t been enforced by the time it gets to 6 years, then the creditor has to go back to court to get permission to enforce eg by sending in bailiffs.
But that is two long years away… I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether you have good grounds for having the CCJ “set aside” now.
Robert says
Hi Sara,
In 2012, I contacted all my credit cards, said a could not repay the outstanding balances, some £20,000 plus at the time. I stopped the interest & pay £1 each to all 6 debts, for the last 8 years, some debt have been sold.
New cc, loans, etc., & my credit score has gone up.
The 6 old debts, are standing orders at the £1, letters have come out, never replied, nothing has happened.
One old debt has been sold on to Lowell, I continued to pay the old agency, but the £1 has been returned each time, Lowell has sent letters & tried to call, I answered yesterday, they wanted me to confirm myself, I said under GDPR, I would not give any information over the phone, they said they need to confirm who I was to talk to me, end up with no conversation, they said look at the letters.
Do I need to setup a new standing order for Lowell, can I stop paying & cease responding to them, I will never pay off the debt in my life time, will never pay them more then £1 per month
I do not think any old debt is on my credit file and the other 5 still get a £1 each.
Can i take steps to stop paying these, i did notice Mark’s and Spencer’s Credit Card, still handle this themselves, the other (5) all with collection companys.
Lowell’s, relates to Halifax Credit Card and is over £14,000, as said only paid £1 to different collection agencies since 2012 on this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was the debt sold to Lowell?
Gordon says
I am 81 years of age and on guaranteed pension credit. I incurred a debt of £5000 from a loan I took out with a bank when I was 62 years old. I married at the age of 67 years. My wife is on pension credit as well. Consequently, because we are married and are both on guaranteed pension credit our pension has been reduced by £88.00 per week. After I married I came to an agreement with the bank that I would pay £10.00 per month on the debt of £5000. According to the debt collection agency, it now stands at £4300. I faithfully pay my £10 every month.
I have no savings at all. We live in sheltered housing. I had a stroke last year and my wife had a heart attack the year before.
The agency has now asked me to submit a list of monthly costs. With costs greater than they were in 1967, and an increased need for heating due to my age and the stroke I suffered I do not see how I can pay more than £10 per month. Can they force me to pay more?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Gordon,
this may seem an odd question, but do you know if the debt collector has bought the debt or are they collecting on behalf of the original bank?
Gordon says
They informed me some years back that they had bought the debt. They are not collecting on behalf of the bank from where I loaned the £5000.
Gordon says
PS: Periodically they send me a letter where they write “Thank you for making payments under your agreed arrangement. We would now like to take the opportunity to review your up-to-date financial position” They conclude the letter writing “If we do not hear from you in the next few days we may try to give you a call. However, if we are unable to make contact we must emphasise that your current arrangement will remain in place and payments should continue to be made on the agreed due date.”
Katie says
I have an old bank loan that I have been paying through a debt collection agency (Cabot financial) which has just dropped off my credit file due to the 6 year rule. I’m still paying the monthly direct debit, but wonder where I stand as this particular debt was subject to a notice of correction about 18 months ago, as the bank agreed it was unenforceable. I continued to pay it because it was on my credit file, but is there anything I can do about it now it’s come off my file, or do I just continue to pay it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have a letter saying it is unenforceable? ANd this isn’t going to change?
Katie says
Definitely said it was unenforceable, I’m assuming the debt has been sold on to Cabot financial now, but how would I know? I haven’t signed any other agreement, but I’ve been paying a monthly payment in the last few years.
Marc Mitchell-Miles says
I have several creditors that I have been paying through a DMP with PayPlan for the last 12 years or so. We have just remortgaged and borrowed enough to pay most of it off. Having requested CCA’s from them all, a number were unable to provide them at all and another provided something that resembled a CCA. My first question is how do I handle the companies that have been unable to provide CCA’s? I do not wish to pay these debts any longer. My second question is what should a CCA look like to ensure it is legitimately enforceable? (This one didn’t even have the address on that I was living at when the credit card was applied for)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The ones that haven’t been able to provide a CCA – have they said they can’t do this and that the debt is unenforceable while they can’t? If they have, you can simply stop paying them anything. tell Payplan you want the debts removed from your DMP and explain why.
If you don’t think a CCA is right (eg it has the wrong address) talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this.
Julie says
I am concerned about an ex Barclaycard account which has been sold to MDKP and then Hoist Portfolio over and over again. This debt is managed by Robinson Way. They have been taking £20 a month but I am concerned now that there was not a CCA (?). This debt appears to have gone to CCJ through Northampton Court but I don’t appear to have a signed copy by a Judge and I was not advised it was going to Court, should I have been? I don’t know what to do about this debt? Do I continue to pay my £20 indefinitely forever? Any advice gratefully received.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about the CCJ and whether there is any chance of you getting this “set aside” – the legal term for cancelled.
While there is a CCJ, there is no point in asking for a CCA as it is not relevant and you will not find out if Hoist/RW have it.
viva says
hi
Sara
Santander UK plc Account manage by West cot , I request CCA agreement , Santander do not have a copy of the original signed opening agreement due to the age of this account. west cot say , however please be aware that non supply of the credit agreement dost not invalidate the debt, but makes if unenforceable only for the period of non=compliance. this means a creditor
cannot:
make the debtor pay the debt before they are supposed to
get a court judgement against the debtor
take back anything hired or bought on credit or take anything used as security in the agreement.
can do:
ask debtors to pay what they owe
send a default notice
pass information on to a credit reference agency.
pass information on to a debt collector
sell the debt to someone else
take the case to court
only for the period of non=compliance. this means a creditor , what is this means ??
I stoped pay this westcot last 2 months, what is the solution please kindly request your replay.
thanks
Sarah says
I have £50K of old debt c/c and personal loan split between 10 x creditors. I have been paying £1pcm to each creditor by STO PCM since 2011. Some of these debts are from pre-2007. I would like to know how I can become debt-free and if some of these are no longer enforceable by CCJ? How do I find this out? I have been paying monthly and have recently called them to try to arrange an F&F reduction of 80% of the debt. I have managed to reduce this with 4 x creditors through an F&F payment of 20% with these but other creditors have refused. How do I know if the debt is still enforceable? and if the debt is no longer enforceable how do I get these debts cleared from my credit file? as they are over 16 years old are they now non-enforceable? they have been sold off several times to different agencies from Cabot, Lowell, Moorecrof, Robinson Way and from time to time they write to me to ask me to change the payment to them, but they have the payment diverted to them anyway so I have never updated the original payments. My question is how do I politely request a CCI or is it a CCA? (what does that stand for please? ) from the collection agency and if they do not have one does that mean the debt can be written off? or “set aside?” is there a letter template you can send a link to please? thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Those are VERY old debts.
There are two main reasons why old debt may be unenforceable. One is because they are statute barred – but this only happens after at least 6 years on no payments so it won’t apply to you.
The other is if the current debt collector (not the original lender) cannot produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the debt. Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ which explains exactly how to ask for the CCA agreement – use the words in the link it suggests and send £1 with each request.
Lisa says
Hi Sara
I have received a response from Link Financial (Two Debts) and Moorcroft to say that they are unable to provide the Credit agreement so the debts are not enforcable at this time. Should i continue to pay them? None of these debts have appeared on my credit file but i dont think they were ever defaulted, how do i find this out? I am worried that if i stop paying that they will register a default on my credit file and then i will have to wait 6 years for it to drop off.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debts were these? Who was the original creditor?
Lisa says
Hi Sara
I got it the wrong way around.
The Link one is Newday Ltd and they defaulted my in 2017. They have been unable to provide the contract so I have stopped paying and will just wait for the default to fall off my record.
The two moorcorft ones were again both credit cards. One states the Client is ‘Arrow Global Ltd’ and the other one states ‘Arrow Global Management Ltd’ (Not sure there is a difference). The last letter I received states ‘We will not make contact with you regarding collection of the outstanding balance on this account whilst this issue is being investigated. If you are already making repayments towards the balance via an automatic payment method such as Direct Debit, Standing Order or continuous card payment, this will continue to be paid unless you have made arrangements to cancel that payment method. However, we may need to contact you if we require further details or need to clarify any information as part of this investigation. The account has been placed on hold during the communications with our client and we appreciate your patience at this time.’
I am not sure if the original credit card companies defaulted my account as they were taken out about 10 years ago and i cant remember what happened.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you checked your credit records with all three credit reference agencies? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this.
Lisa says
Yes it only the link financial default appears. The Moorcroft ones are not on any record. It worries me that they can still add it though. I have been paying both of them for years but they have never appeared on any credit file. I regularly check Credit Karma, Clear Score and Experian. The debts are really old but been kept active from my payments. I dont know the rules on Moorcroft suddenly deciding to add them as a default as i have stopped paying. They do say the collections is on hold so hopefully they will write to me again soon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My guess is they were marked as defaulted on your credit record a lot more than 6 years ago. Then they dropped off. Moorcroft can’t add them again.
Lisa says
Thank you.
Ben says
Hi Sara! Can you please help how to get rid of my old bill reappearing in my credit report after it was removed.
I was living in my previous address from Dec 2012 to Oct 2015. I never paid any water bill because I thought that the water is included in my rent. Nevertheless I had a debt registered in my credit report from Jan 2013. And in Jan 2019 I checked that the debt disappeared from credit report and my score was boosted massively. Recently I noticed that this debt reappeared as 4 missed payments since Dec 2019.
Can you tell me if is it possible for debt to reappear after it was removed. And what can I do to sort it out. I really want this debt not appearing in my file. I don’t mind paying it as long as it doesn’t show in my file at all because applying for mortgage.
Any advice would be massively appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you have your tenancy agreement that says the water was included?
Ben says
Thanks for your reply. I dont have the tenancy agreement as its nearly 5 years since i moved out of that address. I don’t dispute the bill. But i am confused why its still in my credit report and is showing missed payments every month for last 4 months. And my credit report was clean from Jan 2019 until Dec2019. Disappeared for 10 months and came back again. Is it ok to contact them to pay it but to ask them the default date to be pushed back so it won’t appear in my file anymore
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Bargaining – I’ll pay if you delete the debt – rarely works.
You could try the simple line – This debt showed on by credit record for 6 years with a default date on Jan 2013. It then fell off ny credit record – as it should have have – as the default was 6 years old. You should not have added the debt back onto my credit record.
It may work.
If they say you still owe the debt, say, that isn’t relevant to your credit record AND the debt is old and now statute barred.
Technically the first few years probably are statute barred but not 2014-15. If they say that, you could offer to pay that but keep repeating that the debt should not have reappeared on your credit record.
Malcolm Ashley says
A relative of mine took a personal loan of 20K with Barclays in 2006. I undertook to help repay this at a rate of £100 pr month ( I live overseas).
Due to financial problems I have missed some payments in the last few months and Barclays have now written to her asking for settlement of the outstanding amount of 14K. This was their first communication for around 12 yrs. My question is whether, if a third party assumes responsibility for a debt, it keeps it from being statute barred?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, payments have been made to the debt and this will not be statute barred.
James says
I have been paying £20 off an old loan debt that was sold to intrum for over 5 years, it is marked as a default on my credit file and is due to drop off at the end of next month. I have had a missed call from intrum today, is is likely they will change it to a CCJ in the near future? Is that something that happens?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There could be other reasons for them to call. They may offer a settlement offer. Or they may want to go through an income & expenditure form with you to see if you can increase the payment. I suppose they could be calling to see if you have been impacted by Coronavirus, but I am not sure any debt collectors are doing this at the moment.
They are most likely to go for a CCJ if you stop paying them or if they think you can afford to pay more.
Once the debt is gone from your credit record, they can still go for a CCJ.
Do you have other old debts?
James says
I have one other debt that went into default around the same time. The debts total around £4K and I haven’t missed a payment on either in the last 5 years. I did increase the intrum payment around 18 months ago and have just remembered I recently went online to change the bank account that my direct debit was taken from so the call could be relating to that.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes that could be it. If you have any money spare then you could offer make a settlement offer to them?
James says
I think I know what they were calling for now. Just had another look and I think it was set to a one off payment when I changed the direct debit over, rather than a rolling monthly plan. All sorted now though.
If I made a settlement offer would it still fall off next month? I doubt I could make a settlement offer yet but if I could in the future would it re-appear on my file once it has dropped off?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Making a settlement offer will not cause the debt to reappear.
Nats Daley says
Hi just checked nuclear score credit file and carbot finance have removed 2 old debts from my file.
What does this mean?
Has it been sold on …. I’m applying for buisness DRO so not sure what to do now ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how old were they – could they have been defaulted over 6 years ago? Is Business Debtline setting up your DRO?
Nats Daley says
Thanks for replying Sara
No from 2016
I also had one from 2015 that’s now closed too.
Yes step change Buisness decline although they have said no new applications until june.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then it sounds as though the debts have been sold. Tell the adviser that is setting up your DRO. You could also ask Cabot who they were sold to.
Nats Daley says
Ok will do thank you
ALfie says
Hey, I have just found an old CCJ on my credit file (from 2014) that I wasn’t even aware of, sent to an old address of mine. Is it worth paying off, as even if I do it won’t improve my score? Maybe I’m better off waiting two years for it to drop off the file.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the CCJ was in 2014 it will be dropping off this year. Are you sure of the date?
Michael Quinn says
I am paying a debt for my mother,who died 3 years ago,I am still paying,my mother’s estate was completed last year,the company did not come foward for the debt are they entillted to the remaining debt,and could I claim back what I have paid for the last three years. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was there money in your mother’s estate? did you notify them she had died?
mfizzy says
I have 3 defaults on my credit report as of now, thankfully I have managed to clear 3 debts that were defaulted off. 1 debt I’m not paying which was clearly not my fault ends next year march which will be 6 years, I am in arrangement with a debt company to pay of the remaining, on that account I have 3 debts that I’m paying but the 3rd one is not showing on my credit report, but I am paying it through the debt company. What happens if I stop making payments to this. I would rather use the payment I use for that account to pay of the others asap instead?.
people on here are in debts thousands upon thousands, I feel for ya’ll and hope you all clear it, I’ve been in debt for 10 years almost 5k and i’m down to my last £900 to pay off which I will be debt free by september-october 2020.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you stop paying, you may be taken to court for a CCJ even though the debt isn’t on your credit record. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-not-on-my-credit-file/
The two debts that are on your credit record – one thing you could look at is asking the original creditor to add a default date back 9 ow 10 years ago. If they do that, the debts drop off your credit record. Otherwise they will stay for 6 years from the date the debt is settled. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
Kerri says
HI. I have an excisting Consumer debt going back nearly 30 years now. They lost track of me for a while because I was moving around a lot, and it was eventually sold off to a debt collector, who then tracked me down, and I have had an arrangment wth them to pay it off at £5 per month ever since. The interest was frozen on it as I had the presence of mind to go to an Advice Bureau, and they manged to persude the debt collector to put a freeze on the interest, as my income was way below adverage, and the debt would have continued to increase in excess of the amount that I could every afford pay it off, if that makes any sense. I also had a second seperate Consumer debt, again around 30 years ago that completely disapperared off the radar! All contanct was lost, and I don’t even have the documentation any more, and no contact was ever made. My question is, come next year I will be 60 and in receipt of a deferred Pension pot, therefore I will be in a postion to pay off the remaining balance which will only amount to around £300 on the one debt that I have been paying £5 per month for, and as I never heard anything about the second debt, which I think was around the £2000 mark, can I assume then I will no longer have a black mark against my name any more? Will the slate have been wiped clean so that I may for example, get myself an account that earns me some interest? I was always told that I could never have an account with ‘interest’ if I was in debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Those debts aren’t just old, they are ancient! Do you remember what sort of debts they were – credit card? loan? overdraft?
Mrs Kerri says
Yes. They were both credit card debts.
Kerri
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK then that gives you another possible option – it isn’t guaranteed to work but you may want to try it first before settling the remaining balance.
If a debt collector can’t produce a proper copy of the Consumer Credit Act agreement for a credit card, the debt is not enforceable in court. So you can ask them for this and if they don’t send you it, simply stop paying them. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ which explains exactly how to ask for the CCA as you have to use certain words and send a cheque or postal order for £1 with it.
For £300 you may not think this is worth it, but it’s your pension and I bet you would have a good use for £300…
And if the other debt you haven’t been paying ever pops up, ask them to produce the CCA agreement too!
To answer your original questions:
“can I assume then I will no longer have a black mark against my name any more”
I think if you look at your credit record now it will already be fine. These old debt will probably have fallen off years ago.
“I was always told that I could never have an account with ‘interest’ if I was in debt.”
I don’t know who told you that but it was nonsense…
Mind you, it’s hard to find an account which even half way reasonable interest at the moment.
You may deicde
Kerri says
Thank you so much for this! This was so helpful. I will most certainly look into this. Your advice has been invalualbe to me.
Kerri
Debbie says
Hi Sara bit of advise needed please, I’ve just had a call from Lowell they say they have an old provident account last payment made to it they say was in 2013 I advised I don’t acknowledge the debt but Lowell said because a default was added to my credit file In 2015 it makes no difference so I’ll still need to make payment. I’ve not made a claim against provident for these loans as I believe I took them out before 2007 so I’m just unsure if They are stature barred or not? And if I write to provident and for irresponsible lending to find out if these debts was before 2007 or after will that mean I am acknowledging the debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you think you might have made a payment to it in 2013?
Debbie says
Hi Sara thanks for reply I’m only going of what the man on phone said and he said last payment received for the loan was 2013.
I’ve wrote this on another part as well sorry I thought I put it on the wrong bit
Lesley says
Hi Sarah,
I hope it is ok to as this as I’m going round in circles trying to research the best options. I have an old debt that’s now with Cabot that I was making a token payment every month to but have stopped for the last few months. It has been going on for 10 years now so not showing on my credit file but I would like to get rid of it. They have offered a settlement figure which I can find the money to pay for but what I wanted to check is if I do this will it reappear on my credit file? I’m asking as my partner and I are trying to save for our first mortgage but I’m terrified this will flag up when we go to apply for one and so scupper our chance of getting approved for a mortgage. Willa mortgage company be able to see this debt at all?
I hope it is ok to ask you this.
Many Thanks
Lesley
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have offered a settlement figure which I can find the money to pay for but what I wanted to check is if I do this will it reappear on my credit file?
no it won’t.
Also read https://debtcamel.co.uk/mortgage-debts-not-on-credit-record/
how much of a discount are they offering?
what sort of debt was this?
Lesley Quinn says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for replying. It was a unsecured personal loan from a long time ago. They have offered 20% so seems like a good option to take so I can start moving forward. I was just worried it would show somehow on a mortgage application. I was making cash payments with a payment card previously so no payments show leaving my account. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
20% discount or pay 20%, so an 80% discount?
Lesley Quinn says
Pay 20% of the full amount to settle it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that sounds an OK offer then if you can really afford it. Don’t get behind with debts you are paying interst on which are still on your credit record to strtch to settle this old one.
Also read https://debtcamel.co.uk/settlements-old-debts-cca/. That may not work. Y ou may not want to bother if you think you have a fair offer.
James says
I just wondered. I have a Credit Card debt that had been sold on to a third party and we have a payment schedule agreed that’s been in place for a 3/4 years. Last year I received a payment from the original CC company in settlement for a PPI claim.
When the original debt was sold on it would have included this PPI. So do I still owe this part of the debt to the 3rd party?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you do. You could have used the PPI to pay off some of the remaining debt.
How long ago did you default on this?
James says
Thanks Sara, The default was back in 2008 I have continued to make all payments as agreed in full and on time since then.
I didn’t use the PPI to pay any of the remaining debt because that debt obviously included the same PPI I paid out but subsequently was found to have been unfair. Hence the refund/payment. I may be being a little thick but the PPI claim settlement was paid out because the Credit Card Companies were doing some dodgy stuff they and were caught out.
When debt when sold on it also included this PPI that we’ve already established was unfair/dodgy hence the CC pay out. So what your saying is that I should have paid of part of a debt that has already been found to have been an unfair charge. I’m perplexed!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes but the point is that you have been given compensation because you were charged £X more than you should have been if you had not had PPI. If you had paid that off your debt, you would then have a remaining debt amount that was “fair”.
You chose not to do this. You can’t now ask for that bit of the remaining debt to be removed as you have already been compensated for it.
HOWEVER this is a really old debt. Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ and think if you should ask the debt collector to produce the CCA for the debt.
James says
Hi Sara, Sorry to labour the point. Maybe I’m not being clear about this and how i am confused.
In your scenario I receive compensation but pay back the compensation to cover a debt that includes the very thing I was compensated for.
The original debt comprised: Remaining balance on the CC plus PPI payments. For example: Outstanding at default Balance £4000 plus £300 PPI giving a total of £4300 sold on to a 3rd party.
Several years later CC is caught doing something dodgy and has to repay me the £300 (plus interest less 20% tax).
If I then pay the £300 compensation to the company the debt was sold on to in effect I will have not received any compensation. Because the amount of debt sold on already includes £300 that shouldn’t have been a debt in the first place. The original debt should be £4000 NOT £4300.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, that is the point of the compensation to put you back in the position you would have been in if the PPI had not been charged. It’s not meant to be some extra bonus and you also get the PPI removed.
BUT that is all water under the bridge, you didn’t pay off the PPI so you now have the whole debt to deal with.
Hence my suggestion to see if it is enforceable.
Antoon says
Hi, during the application for the house I’m currently renting a credit check of course took place. During which I found out that I have 2 ccjs that I didn’t know about. After a bit of digging and putting jigsaws together on checkmyfile I found them.
This is also stated on the check site:
“Before a CCJ is officially issued, the court must provide you with a County Court Summons, outlining the amount owed, the name of the claimant and the nature of the debt owed, along with the claimant’s intention to take you to court to retrieve the stated amount.”
I can prove black and white that I was not living at the address that the ccj summons was issued to at that time and hadn’t been for a number of months, meaning I never received the summons, which if I’m right, the ccj cannot be ‘officially issued’ as I didn’t recieve the information.
The hearing would have took place without my knowledge, giving me a 6 year ccj for a matter of £130.
I have not contacted any company or court yet and am reluctant to do so until I know where I stand on this, is there any way I can get rid of this from my report?
Any advice will be wonderful.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The only way to get rid of them from your credit report is to apply to the court for a “set aside” of the CCJs.
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether you have grounds for doing this and how to do it.
danny says
Hi
I have 2 in default debts on my credit score. 1 is for idem and the other is pra group.(both were credit cards)I’ve been paying £55 and £16 a month to them for nearly 6 years. The debts stand at £1255 and £2600. How can I get them removed from my credit score and do I have to still pay them if its over 6 years old.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I guess neither debt has a “default date” on your credit record?
danny says
Hi
No they only have opened dates 2011 and 2001 and upto date, date.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you need to ask the original lenders (not the current debt collectors) to add a default date, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/. if that is over 6 years ago, they will drop off your credit record.
But yes you have to keep paying the debts even when they aren’t on your credit record UNLESS the debt collectors cannot produce the CCA agreement for the debts. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ – asking for the CCA will not always work though, sometimes the debt collector can produce it.
Steve says
Hi, I have a number of old debts currently in a DMP with Payplan (since 2008). There are 11 debts in total. One is an old overdraft, the rest are credit & store cards. Only one still appears on my credit file (although it’s only £157, is with Lowell Financial & was transferred from Creation Financial Services in 2016. I don’t recall who the original lender was). Only one debt is still with the original lender (£1750.00 with Capital One), the rest of them have been transferred a number of times (5 are now with Cabot, 2 with Link, The Lowell & Capital One I’ve already mentioned, plus others with Hoist Finance & Westcot Credit Services) It seems that Westcot & Cabot like to transfer debts between them. The information available to me on PayPlan’s website shows me all historical transfer dates of the various debts. I have 3 questions – 1. Is it worth me asking for CCA agreements on the debts that have previously been transferred? 2. If any lenders cannot produce the required documents, can I simply stop paying them? 3. If I stop paying, are those lenders likely to take any other action (for example, if Cabot can’t find CCA for any of my debts currently with them & I stop paying, are they likely to become ‘difficult’ with others that they can provide details for, or to try & offset what they can’t prove by adding interest etc?).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1. Is it worth me asking for CCA agreements on the debts that have previously been transferred?
yes I would say it is, except for the overdraft. Those are very old debts!
I am surprised the Capital One debt has not been sold. I suggest you ask CapOne to confirm the balance – see if they say it has been sold… If it hasn’t, then I suggest you ask them to produce the CCA agreement as it is so old.
2. If any lenders cannot produce the required documents, can I simply stop paying them?
yes, if the CCA agreement cannot be produced then the debt cannot be enforced in court. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ for details.
You can also complain to Creation and ask them to add a default date for the debt back in 2008 or 2009. If they do then Lowell will have to do the same and it will go from your credit record. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
3. If I stop paying, are those lenders likely to take any other action (for example, if Cabot can’t find CCA for any of my debts currently with them & I stop paying, are they likely to become ‘difficult’ with others that they can provide details for, or to try & offset what they can’t prove by adding interest etc?).
No. they can’t decide to start adding interest. Of course they may expect you to pay a bit more to them as you now aren’t paying the non-enforceable debts.
Steven Ward says
Thanks Sara, that’s really helpful.
I’ve been trying to service this debt as economically as possible & have gotten better at it over the years – there’s around £42.6k outstanding at present & I’m currently paying £35/month. I’ve learned that I need to be extremely careful to make sure all of our expenditure is listed on our annual Statement of Affair reviews.
Capital One still send me annual statements showing the monthly payments made via Payplan & outstanding balance, so I assume that confirms that the debt is still with them, but as it’s so old (account was opened probably around 2004) is it worth still asking them for the CCA?
I’ve had numerous letters from Cabot over the last few years offering F&F on all 5 debts for as little as 25% of the outstanding balance, but I’m not sure if that’s because I’m only making token payments or because they’re hoping to get a settlement before I realise that they can’t produce the CCA’s. The unfortunate thing is that the old overdraft account is also with Cabot, so as you hinted at, if I stop paying the other debts, they’ll expect more to be paid to the remaining one. Do you think it would be worth seeing if I can settle the overdraft debt for 20 – 25% (current balance is around £4k) before requesting the CCA’s for the others so they’re not fore-warned & don’t have an opportunity to withdraw their F&F offer on that one?
Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it is worth asking capital one for the CCA.
You can try and settle the overdraft with Cabot first if you want.
Steven Ward says
Sara,
One further question please. Does the rule exempting overdrafts still apply if the original debt has been sold on & now, as far as Cabot are concerned, it’s just one of 5 accounts they hold in my name?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
CCAs are not relevant for overdrafts so it is pointless asking for one. That doesn’t change if the debt has been sold on.
Paul ryan says
Hi Sara
I have old debts which are handled by cabot and lowell which are over 6 years old and I pay very low monthly payments on between £1-£5 per month and my credit rating has recovered to normal
I took out a Lloyds bank loan for 7500 a year ago at £139 per month
Due to corona virus I have lost my job and am now on universal credit and cannot possibly pay back the monthly amount now plus I have a capital one credit card minimum monthly payment £55
I have explained the situation to Lloyds and they tell me if I cant pay they will pass my debt on to a collections agency
My questions are..will they do that? Is it likely to end up with cabot or lowell or a similar organization? Given the current circumstances with coronavirus am I likely to be able to negotiate a low repayment figure such as £1-5 pounds? And will any agency ask how it was I was able to take out a £7500 loan when still only paying back low monthly amounts on previous debt
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes they will probably sell your debt collector some point to a debt collector. Do you care? You should be offering an amount you can afford to all your debts, including the Capital One card – probably £1 a month each.
How long do you think it will be before you get another job?
Lynne says
If Imake an affordability complaint could the whole debt be written off or just the interest?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Only the interest.
Lynne says
Thank you.
Steve says
I have written to all of my creditors requesting copies of the CCA. So far only one (the Cap One debt) have returned the required documents. 5 out of 9 of the others have all written back to advise they are in the process of obtaining the required documents from the original lenders & will forward when available. In the meantime my accounts have been put on hold. Assuming the paperwork cannot be found, I’m thinking these accounts could be on hold for some time.
One thing to note though, in their reply to me, Capital One advised that under the new GDPR regulations, the statutory £1 payment per account for requesting the CCA is no longer required & have destroyed my cheque. However, cheques for 4 of the other 9 accounts I sent payments out for have been paid in.
Are you able to advise on this at all?
Thanks, Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That all sounds pretty normal.
If you are still paying the creditors, after a couple of months you can reasonably stop paying any creditors that haven’t yet sent you the CCA – tell them you will restart if they ever find it.
Some creditors don’t want the £1 cheques any more. Some do. For £1 it’s not worth the hassle and delay of trying to find out which ones do want it so it’s easiest to send them to all.
Steven Ward says
Thanks Sara,
Latest update after sending off CCA request letters to 5 creditors regarding 11 old accounts – I’ve had replies from all of my creditors – only Capital One have been able to provide the paperwork (this was half-expected as they are the only original creditor). Cabot (5 accounts) & Link (2 accounts) have written to advise they don’t have the required documents but will try & obtain it, Lowell & Hoist have advised that my accounts have been put on hold whilst they request the paperwork from the original lenders. I have written back to all but Cap One advising that due to my financial position I must concentrate on clearing the debts that remain enforceable & that I will not be making any further payments until the required documents are received.
Thank you so much for your help & advice on this, especially the information provided under the ‘Old Debts’ section of your website. In less than 6 weeks I’ve effectively reduced over £42,000 of old unsecured debt to under £2k which I can get paid off within a couple of years.
If I understand correctly & make no further payments / communication with my creditors, after 6 years the other debts will be come statute barred. Fingers crossed for missing paperwork!
Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Realistically you probably have to wait another month before you can feel it’s unlikely any more CCA will be produced, but it’s going well so far.
Steve says
UPDATE –
First a letter from Lowell Finance advising the original lender has been unable to provide the CCA paperwork & that as the debt is unenforceable they will no longer pursue it. Great result.
Next 5 letters from Cabot Finance (1 for each of the accounts with them) advising that the original lenders have been unable to provide the CCA paperwork. They have confirmed that the debts are unenforceable & acknowledged my previous advice that I have stopped paying, but they have reminded me that the debts still exist, they will continue to write & telephone asking for payment & that if they are able to provide the paperwork in the future they will be able to apply for a CCJ. Personally I think that’s just scare tactics – I’m pretty confident they won’t be able to produce it, considering they haven’t found it by now (6 weeks since the original request) & have been told by the original lender that they can’t provide it. I’ve already advised them in writing in a follow-up letter that I will not be issuing any further communication in writing (aiming for the 6 years & the debts becoming statute-barred), so unless they send me the CCA paperwork they will be ignored.
Thanks again for the great advice.
Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Great result.
Have a look at what Cabot send you – every message Should say that the debt they are reminding you about is unenforceable.
Jason says
Hi ya, I’ve got various creditors that I pay £1 pm since 2015. The overall debts are £30000 via loans and credit cards.
At the 6yr point does these debts fall off my credit report? Also will I need to continue the £1 pm payments?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are these your only debts or do you have more recent ones?
Is one of these debts to Amigo? (You included that as your website.)
How many of The debts have been sold to debt collectors?
Could you pay more than £1 a month if necessary?
Jason says
There are various credit cards eg virgin. Loan is with Lloyd’s.
Most think 5 are with debt collectors. All of the collectors have offered reduced amounts to clear the debts but unfortunately I’m not in a position to do!!
I’ve been paying £1 per month since the collectors have contacted me. Unfortunately I’m a war veteran who isn’t able to offer more.
All of these defaults began in 2015 (marriage ended). So I’m wondering if these debts disappear at the 6yr point?
Many thanks
Steven Ward says
Hi Jason, I believe I can answer this for you.
Unfortunately the debt’s won’t just ‘disappear’, they will still exist & the creditors can & will will still ask you for payments. They will, however, be removed from your credit file 6 years after the default date, so will not be visible to any credit reference agencies if / when you apply for credit. See the section above titled “Must I pay a debt that has dropped off my credit file?”
Depending on how old these debts are (ie when you first took out the credit), you may be able to render them ‘unenforceable’ by requesting a copies of the Consumer Credit Agreements from your creditors under Sections 77 – 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This is more likely for debts that were taken out before 2007, or that have been under an arrangement / sold of to a debt collector for a number of years. For more information on this, read the section above titled “If the debt is old, the paperwork may be missing” & refer to the National Debtline fact sheet referenced in that section.
Hope that helps.
Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you on disability benefits? I asume you are renting not buying?
How large was the loan when you took it out and at that point was it really affordable?
Adrian says
Hi Sara I have a £600 CCJ from 2015, do I wait or pay ?
My credit score is 314 on credit Wise and says poor , how can I increase the score and if I decide to wait it will still show on the report next year?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you made any payments? Are you getting demands to pay?
PJ says
Hi Sarah my mortgage was decline due to adverse history credit file showing good and excellent report. Credit file do not show my old
bank account with over draft do you think this may be a reason for refusal? I am only paying them interest on £1750. And missed 2 recent payment argh.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was the Mortgage lender The sAme (or part of the same banking group) as the overdraft bank?
Have you ever defaulted to the mortgage lender ever if it was paid off a long while ago?
Have you checked credit records with all three credit references agencies?
Did you go through a mortgage broker?
Dan Kane says
Hi Sara, I got a CCJ 6 years ago for a debt to Welcome finance. It is due to expire in Dec and come off my credit report. I started paying a debt collection company a few year ago and it won’t be paid for another few years yet.
Is it still enforceable after Dec or can I stop paying them because the CCJ has finished ?
Thanks, Dan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it is still enforceable – I suggest you call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 to confirm this.
Julie says
Hi Sara
I took out an unsecured loan in 2005 for £20k for my business which was closed a year later but unfortunately I was left with this debt. I ran into financial difficulties and arranged to pay £31.50 per month and paid it ever since without missing. I received a letter from drayton solicitors which are effectively a debt collector acting on behalf of Santander bank. However the loan was taken out with Alliance and Leicester so I called and they said I’d missed payments which I clearly hadn’t once I’d established which loan they were talking about. Nothing else was discussed and then I received a letter saying that their client was requesting the full outstanding amount of £11k where do I stand?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What is the rest of your financial situation like at the moment?
Julie says
I manage to pay everything with enough left over to live on and my credit is reasonably good
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So I assume you don’t have a spare 11k lying around to pay this!
What they probably want is for you to increase your monthly payments.
Do you have any money you could use to offer as a settlement to this?
Was this debt a normal consumer debt, you just used the money for your business? Or was it taken out specifically as a busienss loan?
Julie says
Hi Sara
No your right I don’t have a spare 11k to hand! Yes it was a normal loan that I got for business
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, I don’t suppose you have the loan paperwork?
Julie says
No I don’t it was that long ago.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, I suggest you talk to Business Debtline (https://www.businessdebtline.org/) as this was an old business-related debt. Ask BD if it is worth asking them to produce the CCA agreement for the debt – if a CCA is relevant for the debt AND if the lender cannot produce it, the debt is unenforceable in court and you can stop paying.
BD can also help you produce an income & expenditure statement which can show how much you can offer to pay them each month.
David says
Isn’t it time the Government tightened up the six year rules. If someone has paid payments on debts or been in touch with the debt collection the debt should become stature barred after six years. I have had debts hanging over me for over 12 yrs, it has extremely damaged my health. I could go bankrupt to get them off my back, but why should I. These companies should be banned, they must be costing the NHS a small fortune. The problems will get even worse after the current pandemic, thousands of people with little or no money. I gather they are hiring an army of debt collectors to inflict yet more suffering on people, and quite happy to chase you to your grave. They try to make out they are caring companies, rubbish. I think a possible solution is to take them to a court of human rights as they are damaging people’s health. The owner of Cabot said in the press last year, it’s like taking candy floss off a baby, shows how sick he is.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think there is very little chance of that happening.
What sort of debts are your old debt? Cards, catalogues, loans, overdrafts, other?
You have been making low payments for a long while? Are you in work? Have bad health?
Kate says
I owe around £4.5k on an old debt which no longer appears on my credit report. I have been paying £1 per month. The offered a settlement of £3.5k and I counter offered £1000 which was rejected.
I would like to apply for a mortgage. Do you think I should pay this off before applying? Will lenders be able to find this debt? I need as much money for the deposit as possible so its catch 22.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt was it?
Kate says
Originally it was a career development loan from the co-op, I moved house and missed some letters which were initiating the repayment and they passed it over to westcot. I was so angry about it all I just paid the minimum.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does it appear on your credit record? Have you looked on all three credit reference agencies?
Kate says
No it does not appear on my credit record and I have looked at Experian, Equifax and clear score. They have agreed that by settling it will not reappear. I have another credit card that also does not appear on any of the credit reports for some reasons (HSBC). I just do not want to get in to a situation where I get a mortgage in principle and then this crops up and causes issues.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so a mortgage lender can’t see it on your credit record. But they will be able to see that there is a debt there from your bank statements showing the £1 a month. I can’t say for defiinite that a mortgage lender would object to this but it is a real risk – better to get it settled if possible. I am afraid there is no way to make Westcot accept a lower offer.
Kate says
So if I settle now, and the mortgage letter asks what the payments were, I can say this was old student that I have now settled in preparation for my mortgage? Would that be better than to keep paying off smaller amounts each month?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry but that’s impossible to predict. It may be better to settle now and then wait 6 months before a loan application so the mortgage lender will never spot the payments.
I strongly suggest talking to a mortgage broker about this.
Mark Buchanan says
I was refused a mortgage from a local building society when they spotted the 3 £1 payments that I was making. They queried them and I had to explain that it was for an old debt and they wouldn’t proceed after that point.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, this is a real possibility. I can’t say it will always happen but it often will.
Kate says
I have removed the direct debit now, and I believe they look at 3 months bank statements, so I will apply after this. Will speak with a mortgage advisor as well to see if whats best.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case they may take you to court for a CCJ. Stopping paying is NOT a sensible option here!
stacey says
hi ,
i have really old debts most over 6+ years – at the time i was going through really bad times and set these up in a dmp – was wanting to know if there is anything to do to get these removed/wiped
sky uk
edf energy customers
newday ltd
sshop direct
ee
Sara (Debt Camel) says
newday ltd
sshop direct
are these still with the original lender or have they been sold to debt collectors?
Nigel says
Can I ask you said if it’s before 2007 they would be unlikely to produce a CCA, why would that be
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Partly this is just because of the sheer age of pre 2007 debts. But it is my understanding that pre 2007 debts are more likely to be determined by a court to be irredeemably unenforceable if a document with a signature cannot be produced.
If your question is just curiosity, then I wouldn’t let the 2007 date change what you do – with a 2004 or 2010 debt still ask for the CCA!
If you have been sent something and you are not sure if it is right, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#How_can_you_tell_if_it_is_right for what to do.
Nigel says
What about debts you pay directly to a university does that need paperwork too, if so what
I acknowledge the debt and paying it off but it’s from 2007
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Probably not, that is unlikely to be a consumer credit debt. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 if you aren’t sure.
Esther says
I had three old debts wherein i was paying £5 to each of them. In Feb 2020 I stopped paying and sent them the 3 step letter. Once creditor, namely Lowell, came back confirming they cannot proved the debt and close the file. Capquest and Cabot continued to chase. I sent them another letter again asking for proof of debt, and its been 3 months now and I have not heard anything from Capquest. Cabot seem to be outright ignoring all my letter making no reference to them but continue to threaten me. I last sent them a letter a week ago referring to all the letters I have sent them asking for proof of debt or if they continue to harass me I will be filing a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman. I have received another letter this week once again ignoring my letter and now saying they have sent my case to their lawyers who will be in touch with me as I have failed to contact them. Can you please advise how you think I should proceed?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debts were these?
Esther says
They were credit card debts….they have all disappeared from my credit file.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, well first forget all the three-letter nonsense. Sometimes those letters work by accident, but when a debt collector chooses to ignore them there is nothing you can do. You won’t win a FOS case having sent those letters which are legal gobbledegook.
I suggest you read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ and do what it says there. Send off the letters asking for the CCA in the exact format that says and enclose £1 to Capquest and to Cabot.
Do this now, don’t wait for the lawyers to start legal action.
Esther says
Hi Sara
Thank you for your reply. I will ask for the CCA agreement.
allan says
Hi Sara
I have 2 credit card debts one with Barclaycard & one with Halifax ( both brought by dca’s) they were both defaulted in 2016 , in 2016 i lost my job and got divorced so went abroad to live ( i informed them of my address) as the wages were poor in Cyprus i was unable to pay the monthly payments so was defaulted , im now back in the UK and not sure what to do – do i register my new address with them ? do i try and find who the debts are with and offer a monthly payment or do i sit tight and wait for 2 years for the 6 year period and statue barred ? there has been no correspondence since 2016 .. thanks for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/no-calls-or-letters-about-debt/ which looks at this situation – no easy answer as the debt is pretty unlikely to become statute barred without the creditor going to court for a CCJ.
allan says
Ok thanks Sara, what is the likelihood of them going for a CCJ? The defaults finish April 2022
one is 11k and other 3k not sure who dca is as have had letters from different companies but not since late 2016
is it best trying to find out who the DCAS are and giving mu new address and a monthly payment or will it start the 6 years again , or will they offer a monthly payment thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t really guess at the likelihood. Most debts do not become statute barred, but it may depend on the size of the debt and the debt collector.
so what does your credit record say – are these debts still with the original lenders or have they been sold to debt collectors?
Allan says
They have been to various dca, the Barclaycard one has the amount and balance outstanding the Halifax one has amount and balance zero
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then the Barclaycard one probably has not been sold but the Halifax one has.
Can you see a debt with a debt collector that could be the Halifax debt? what credit report are you looking at?
Allan says
I look at all 4 via checkmycreditfile , no there’s nothing against Halifax but I have had various letters from dcas when I lived in Cyprus
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the Halifax debt has been sold if it is set at zero. You are looking for a debt with a different creditor who is a debt purchaser for about the same amount – is there one?
PS I suggest cancelling that credit report subscription. It’s very expensive and you can get all the info you need for free.
Allan says
Hi Sara, no i can’t see any other name on it , ok which is the best free one please.. is it a good idea to ring Barclaycard?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/
There isn’t really an easy answer to your question. One option is for you to think what you could pay these debts each month and start saving that up in a seperate account. So if/when a creditor gets in touch, you have a small lump sum you could offer to settle the debt.
But if you want a mortgage soon, these debts have to be settled, not on a payment arrangement.
Allan says
Ok thanks Sara, at 55 im to old to get a mortgage, and cabt afford to short settle, shall I give my new address or just leave them the Cyprus ones they already have , I have things on dd at the moment ( car insurance etc ) so they can find my new address if they do a credit search
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t give advice on what is likely to work out better. If you contact them you will be asked to start payments. If you don’t there is a risk of getting a CCJ but a chance (I cant guess how large) that nothing will happen. Both options have pros and cons. You could talk your whole situation through with National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Allan says
Ok thank you for your help Sara
Lou says
Hi Sara. I have an old professional student loan with one of the large high street banks (originally 20k, taken out in 2006) that I made the payments on up until early 2015 when I defaulted due to personal difficulties. The balance is £12k, split in two loans of 6k each (they restructured it not long after I took it out, I can’t remember why exactly). I haven’t made any payments since defaulting and they haven’t chased since 2015. They still hold the debt however and send automated balance statements every 6 months. I made an FFS offer to them (25% of the debt) 3 years ago when a family member offered to lend me some money to resolve it, but I received no response (acknowledgement of receipt or otherwise). Due to continued financial strain I have since left it. The 6 year period will be up in 3 months and I am not sure what I should do now. I am concerned they will spring a CCJ on me at the last minute, but I also have the experience of no response to my FFS. I don’t want to contact them to reactivate full payment at this stage – say on a monthly payment plan – as I am just starting to finally get my finances back on track and this would be unaffordable for me. Any advice greatly appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do they have your current address?
Lou says
They do yes as it’s also my main bank account provider – and they send me automated statements every 6 months.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you will get any communications about this. If they intend to go to court – and banks don’t very often do this, they normally sell the debt to a debt collector – then you should get a letter Before Action/Claim before they go to court. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ for what one looks like. If you get one you can decide to set up a monthly payment arrangement at that point.
Lou says
Thank you Sara, I will just monitor then. Am I right in thinking that any new purchaser of the debt would not be able to apply for a CCJ after the 6 years is up?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t said when the debt is likely to be statuite barred. Talk to National debtline on 0808 808 4000 about that.
Lou says
Hi again Sara, I’ve just been notified that the dept has now been sold to PRA group. Would it be reasonable for me to make an FFS to PRA Group? Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, but read https://debtcamel.co.uk/settlements-old-debts-cca/ first.
Lou says
Thanks Sara. I’ve also spoken the National Debtline which was helpful. For now PRA has only sent an email saying they’ve taken over the debt, but with no further details of the debt and asking for personal data, so just need to monitor post.
Ian Maskell says
Hi I wonder if you can advise. I have an Anglian Water CCJ (satisfied in June 2020) from 2016. I have recently noticed that Anglian water have populated my credit files with late payments up to June 2020. Will these stay on my credit file even after the CCJ falls off after 6 years? So effectively will I be punished for a further 6 years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was there ever a default date added to the credit record?
Ian Maskell says
Judging by the credit file no there wasn’t, it just has 6’s every month up to June 2020.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then ask Anglian Water to add a default date that is on or before the date of the CCJ. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
Ian Maskell says
Thanks. Just read through the stuff in the link you posted. It says the default should be issued 3-6 months after missed payments. Would I be right to argue that the default should be dated as such? The CCJ was for missed bills dated January 2014, July 2014 and January 2015 so could I say the default should be dated no later than July 2014?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s not so easy with utility companies where they are still supplying you. But the CCJ provides a clear point at which there should have been a default.
Ian Maskell says
Thanks. It is a bit more complicated than that as I moved out of the property around 2010 and formally notified AW but they just kept billing to me. I finally got them to accept back dating to July 2015 but they wouldn’t go any earlier due to the CCJ which I’ve filed an N244 against.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you just today got them to add a default date of the date of the CCJ?
Have you had advice about applying for a set aside? If not, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000
Ian Maskell says
No sorry, I meant I had previously got them to take me off the bill back to July 2015, but they are still refusing to remove credit file entries up to June 2020 as this was when the CCJ was satisfied. Yes I have taken advice re set aside, which shouldn’t be a problem as I have the email chain.
Ian Maskell says
Hi again. I have just had the following response from Equifax:
Anglian Water (I) has responded to your dispute. They’ve told us that the account information is correct and should remain unchanged as they confirmed that a default was registered on 27th Nov 2014, this was then deleted 30th November 2016 due to account maintenance carried out on the water account. This would not show through Equifax as they started reporting with them in June 2020 and the County Count Judgement was issued 27th November 2015, with a Judgment date of 4th January 2016. The information on your credit report belongs to the data provider and we cannot change it without their authorisation.
I have confirmation from the CEO of AW that I have no responsibility for this account from 07/07/2015. How can they just delete a default?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So have you asked Anglian Water why they deleted the earlier default?
It can be sensible in cases involving a CCJ that is being disputed to get the CCJ sorted first. You can waste a lot of time trying to get your credit record changed when there is a CCJ only to be back facing a different credit record problem if you are successful in getting the CCJ removed.
John says
Hi, I’m confused with the information, I have an old overdraft debt that dates back to 2008 which I have been paying with PRA since 2013, recently they started harassing phone calls to my parents, with who I don’t live this is on top of me receiving phone calls constantly at least once a day, so I contacted them and asked them to stop the calls and also after reading your site a prove it letter, they say as it’s a current account debt (overdraft) they are under no obligation to provide such paperwork, I can see overdrafts are covered under the CCA act but it also seems a bit vague, do they have to prove the debt is mine.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is no CCA agreement for an overdraft debt.
What are the rest of your current finances like, do you have other problem debts?
John says
No, I have a few payment agreements in place I but I’m up to date with them including this one but PRA say they haven’t received payment since 2017 but my bank statements show I have made every payment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then send PRA a complaint with some of your bank statements attached.
These old debts are not going to go away. Unless you think you can pay them off in a reasonable time, I suggest you should talk to a debt adviser about your options. Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 400. Never-ending payment arrangements are not a good idea.
Lorna says
Hi – I have 6 debts that I have been paying off small amounts following default of each after illness. I haven’t missed a payment since. Half are directly with the loan company and half with debt collection agencies. The 6 years in coming up that they fall off my credit report. I have come into a reasonable sum of money, possibly enough to negotiate maybe 25% of each debt to settle. My question is that someone told me that if I settle now, even though it is settled, the clock for the 6 years is restarted and it will be another 6 years for each from the date of settlement that they will take to come off my credit file? I wonder if you can tell me is this true? Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do all the debts have a default date on your credit report?
Those that do will fall off 6 years after that default date no matter whether you settle them in full, partially or just carry on making small payments.
If any don’t have a default date, then they will stay for 6 years after the settlement date.
Steven says
Hi Sara, just wanted to thank you again for the previous advice & information & leave another update. Hopefully this will also be motivation for anyone who’s read & researched the information here & is hesitant in taking the first step.
The latest news is that I have today received confirmation from Link Financial that the original lenders of the 2 accounts held by them – Barclaycard (£5.5k) & MBNA (£9.5k) – have now confirmed that they are unable to provide the original CCA & account statement information, so the accounts are unenforceable!! That is now every account I had either confirmed as unenforceable or repaid at a discount & my credit score is growing month-by-month.
Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
two large ones – brilliant!
Gemma says
I have two defaults which are due to be removed from my credit report March & April, I am still currently paying these off with a debt collector are these still enforceable when removed? Based on what I pay off them a month it will take another 22 years to pay this off :-/
Weatherman says
Hi Gemma
Whether a debt is enforceable doesn’t depend on whether the default is on your credit report. Because you’ve been making payments towards this debt, it will still be enforceable. There’s more information about that here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/
22 years is an incredibly long time to be repaying these debts! You should speak to National Debtline, who can help you sort this situation out much more quickly: 0808 808 4000
Gemma says
Thanks for the advice :-)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debts were these?
The debs cannot be “statute barred” as you have been paying them as weatherman says.
But some debts may be unenforceable if the debt collector cannot produce the correct paperwork. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ for more about this.
Gemma says
One is a catalogue debt and the other is a credit card, I contacted Lowell who own the catalogue debt a few years back as I’d noticed the debt showing on my report was more than the original debt they tried to tell me “ Very “ had added interest etc before it was sold as part of there terms so I had been paying back for years the interest added without even knowing and still to this day my balance is barely less than what I originally defaulted for. I pay back £15 each per month one will take 10 years to clear the other 22 years
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then asking for the CCA agreement for both of those may result in the debt collector agreeing one or both of them are unenforceable.
John says
Dear Sara,
Firstly, you are providing amazing and informativie information to many that need it. Fantastic work.
After a traumatic employment tribunal case that lasted well over a year (and I agreed to settled out of court as it had been too stressful and would cost too much to run to court) I decided to “seek pastures new” and went overseas.
I left the U.K. in 2009 with an £4K credit card bill unpaid (and a few unpaid utility bills).
I believe the CC bill was sold on to a debt collector (a trusted ex-gf said someone had contacted her at an old address I had). And I have no idea if that resulted in a CCJ.
The CC was opened in about 2003/4, so have no idea if there is the original CCA available.
How do I sort this situation out ? Will I still be pursued for the debt ?
Regards
John
Amy says
I contacted Lowell and asked for the CCA arrangements for all the accounts I am paying. They have come back and said that they don’t have 4 of them therefore have sent these to their manager to see what to do next and that they have asked for the others. Another thing they said was that as one is a mobile phone contract, (this is 15 years old) that phone contracts do not have these agreements and something to do with having to put the SIM card back in and contact the phone company. Is this correct advice? Seems a bit bizarre.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some phone contracts will not have CCA agreements – talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this and whether yours is one of these.
Rizwan says
You are doing a great job. I had 3 credit card debts and one overdraft defaulted in 2014. All these debts are fallen off my credit file sine last year. They all have been sold to debt collectors (PRA, Arrow, Lowell & Link Financial) and I have been making £1 payment to all four creditors since 2014. My question is if I apply for a mortgage in next 12 – 18 months time do they show up to my new lender that I have approx £20k debt outstanding or not as they are not on my credit file anymore. Can I still get a mortgage? Thanks again
Weatherman says
Hi Rizwan
These debts won’t show up on your credit report. But the lender might ask you if you have any outstanding debts. You mustn’t lie to them or else you’re committing fraud. There is also a risk that they apply for a CCJ, which would damage your credit report for a further six years.
I’m surprised they’ve accepted token payments for so long – and especially since you’re now in a position to apply for a mortgage. It could be a good idea to look at sorting these debts out even though they’re no longer on your credit report. National Debtline can talk you through your options: 0808 808 4000
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A mortgage lender is VERY likely to see these debts as they will ask for your bank statements.
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ and think if this might help. If a CCA cannot be produced you can literally stop paying the debts. If you want to try this, do it now as you want to have stopped paying the debts 6 months at least before a mortgage application.
If they can produce the CCA agreement you can try to get them settled for a lower amount, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/
Gav says
Hi – I received 4 CCJs 5 years ago after a messy divorce, and I have been making minimum payments to Lowell & Mortimer clark for the last 5 years. The CCJs all hit 6 years in Feb 2022 so they will fall off my credit file. I have been told once they leave my file i might aswell stop paying them as they cannot re ccj me for the same debt & the debts will never be paid off so wasn’t sure what to do….?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They cant get a new CCJ but CCJs do not become statute barred so they can send round bailiffs or get an attachment of earnings order…
Do you have other debts as well as these?
Gav says
No, no other debts, just these 4. I’ve never missed a payment and I am in contact once or twice a year with lovell etc.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I doubt they will just give up if you stop paying.
Owaid says
Hi Sarah,
I received a letter from Arrow debit collection company which is saying that I owe 13000 pounds of some one which I don’t know any thing about and they took a CCJ on my name in june 2015. As since January 2015 I was not in UK so they may have sent court letters to my old address and some how manage to get the CCJ in June 2015.. after they they are saying in there current letter that they applied court to enforce CCJ and even got a letter for my employer to pay from my salary. But as I was not in this country and was not getting paid all my accounts were 0 so they did nothing as from my old address new tenant let them know that I don’t leave at old address so they had no choice.. I was un aware of all this and now when I come back after 5 years and 10 month in UK I received a letter from them that they are going to take another enforcement letter against me in the court or I should pay the balance …
Do I have to pay the debit ? as its going to be 6 year old in June 2021?
The CCJ will removed from my Credit report in 2 month .. So should I ignore them and let it make 6 years old ?
if they call me in the court should I go? if go what should I ask as I dont know any thing about all this debit and CCJ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When you left the country, did you have debts and you just don’t recognise this one? Or are you saying there is no chance you owed anyone a lot of money?
Ms G says
Hello Sara,
I have been contacted recently by a debt collector I had nothing to do with before. Due to financial circumstance, I defaulted on a bank load 2010. At the time the citzen advice bureau told me to make token payments of £1 each month, which I have been making ever since. The debt was sold on to a debt collector and then sold on again (I am not sure if several times as I have moved at least twice during this time). I have never had any dealings with the current debt collector before. I really would want to write off this debt of near to 8k. I understand that the debt unfortunately can’t be statue barred because of the token payments. Is there another way to write it off. I don’t quite understand what it says on this site: do I ask a company to write the debt off for me or should I ask the original creditor. I was thinking of going down the proof of CCA agreement first. Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is your current financial situation like?
Ms G says
Better, but I cannot pay them 100s of Pounds each month to clear it quickly. I am tied in financially into other things, I have not got equity/mortgage or large savings etc. The debt is no longer showing on my credit report.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Asking for the CCA is a reasonable thing to do – this debt is old and has been sold several times so this may well work.
If it doesn’t, then it isn’t clear that you are likely to get it written off. You can simply may a payment arrangement to pay more, not hundreds but what you can afford. It would be a good idea at that point to talk to a debt adviser about your full situation – back to Citizens Advice I suggest.