Did your payday loans cost so much when you repaid one you had to keep on borrowing?
You can get a refund of the interest you paid on unaffordable loans.
It’s easy to ask for a payday loan refund using the free template letters here. The letters work if your payday loans were repaid or you still owe money.
The comments below this article have thousands of stories of the refunds people have got using these letters. It is a great place to ask questions!
Contents
What are “unaffordable” loans?
Was a loan affordable just because you repaid it?
No! If paying a loan left you so broke you had to borrow again – from the same lender or a different one – it was unaffordable!
The regulator says:
“the borrower should be able to make the required repayments without undue difficulty, whilst continuing to meet other debt repayment obligations and reasonable regular outgoings.”
That means a payday loan is only affordable if you repaid it on time and you could still manage to pay your other bills and debts.
Payday loans are meant to solve a short-term problem. If you kept repaying one then getting another loan soon after, the lender should have stopped lending to you.
If the loan was small and it was the first loan or second loan from a lender, the lender may not have realised the loan was unaffordable for you. But it was irresponsible lending to just carry on giving you more loans.
Many lenders ignore obvious signs of problems such as your loans increasing in size, or borrowing again soon after repayment.
How much compensation can you get?
You don’t have to calculate this. Just ask for a refund from the lender and see what you are offered. This is simple and it works well.
The Financial Ombudsman has seen tens of thousands of payday loan affordability complaints.
A typical decision by the Ombudsman is that the payday lender should refund all the interest you paid interest after the third, fourth or fifth loan.
But if your first loan was large, or was rolled over several times you could get a refund from just one loan.
Which lenders can you get refunds from?
You can complain to lenders that are still in business, even if they are no longer lending. These include:
Lending Stream, Cash Converters, CashASAP, Drafty, Dot Dot, Fast Loan Uk, Fernovo, Fund Ourselves, Kabayan, LoanPig, Mr Lender, Moneyboat, MyKredit, My Finance Club, QuidMarket, Savvy, The Money Platform, WageMe, Wizzcash,
See this email list for payday lenders for a longer list and all the contact details to use.
If the lender has gone into administration, including CashForUNow, Piggybank, Ferratum, Oakam, Safetynet Credit, Tappily:
- make a claim to the administrators – there is normally a simple form for you to complete, see the lender’s website for details – but there will be a time limit for doing this.
- you may not get much cash back but this is very easy to do. A balance may be reduced or cleared even if there is no cash to distribute. And if you win the complaint any negative marks on your credit record will be removed.
It is probably too late to make claims to other lenders who gave up years ago, see this list.
For longer-term loans there are better template letters to use on other pages:
- doorstep lenders and guarantor lenders,
- Loans2Go – the worst loans in Britain!
- 118 Money, Likely Loans, Bamboo, car finance, bank loans and other long-term loans.
Do this before, before you send in a complaint
Doing these things now will make your life easier later.
Get a copy of your TransUnion statutory credit report and keep it. After complaints are started, sometimes loans are deleted and you may want the full report if you later have to go to the Ombudsman.
If you still owe money to the lender, read Will an affordability claim hurt my credit record, and other questions. These looks at your options for stopping paying, the effect on your credit record etc.
If the rest of your finances are difficult, look into a Debt Management Plan (DMP) where you make one affordable payment a month to StepChange. This gets you into a safe financial position as these affordability complaints can take a long time to go through at the Ombudsman. Winning a complaint then speeds up the DMP.
Unless you can afford to make this month’s payment without borrowing again, cancel the CPA to the lender at your bank. Otherwise the lender may take the money and you will be in a mess.
If your loan was sold to a debt collector you complain to the original lender. But also tell the debt collector that you are disputing the debt. It is a good idea to carry on making payments to the debt collector if they are affordable.
Start your complaint & get loan details
Find the lender’s email address for complaints from this list.
Put “AFFORDABILITY COMPLAINT” as the subject of your email:
You should never have given me these unaffordable loans. Paying you each month left me with too little money so I had to keep borrowing to get through the next month.
You should have realised from the number of times I borrowed that my debt problems were getting worse. It was not responsible to continue to lend to me. [Add more details eg how often you borrowed or rolled loans if you know them, how the amount borrowed generally went up etc]
[Include/change this if your credit record would have shown big problems:] My credit reports would have shown all my other debts and problems including late payments/defaults /CCJs/debt management.]
I am asking you to refund the interest and any charges I paid, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
[delete this sentence if you know what all your loans were.] I know the difficulties your loans have caused me but I no longer have all the loan details. Please send me a list, showing for each loan when it was taken out, how much interest and charges you added, and what I repaid. This will enable me to assess any refund you offer me.
[delete this sentence if none of your loans were sold.]If a loan was later sold to a debt collector, please inform me of the date of sale and the name of the debt collector.
Some ways to improve this
Add any other points that help you describe what happened to you. You don’t need to list the loans – the lenders knows them.
Some examples:
- “I took out another loan with xxxx to pay you.”
- “Sometimes I borrowed to pay the rent and then had to top-up to get money for food.”
- if you weren’t treated fairly while you were borrowing or when you could not make a payment, add a bit about this.
You can attach bank statements if you like, This is a good idea as these show how unaffordable the loans were for you. If you have gambling showing, this helps your complaint, it doesn’t harm it.
I don’t know if many lenders actually read what you send them. I
it’s easy to make these complaints – you don’t need to calculate what refund you should get or quote laws.
Only one loan?
The template refers to multiple loans because that is what normally happens with payday lenders.
When you only had one loan and it was large, read Refunds from large loans and use the template there.
If you only had one loan and it was small, this is going to be a very difficult complaint to win. If you have borrowed once or twice from 5 leaders, that is much more difficult to win an affordability complaint than having 4 or 5 loans from two lenders.
Waiting for a reply from the lender
This email starts your affordability complaint.
They may send the list of loans first and later respond to your complaint. So don’t be surprised if you get sent info on the loans but nothing about your request for a refund.
When you get your loan information, you can send in more details about your complaint if you want. You don’t have to do this, your complaint has already begun and the lender has to reply.
The lender should reply to your complaint within 8 weeks from when you send the email, not when they acknowledge it. Make a note in your diary for 8 weeks time and chase the lender up if you don’t get a reply.
Don’t be surprised if you have to wait until the end of the 8 weeks to get response – this is common.
Send your bank statements or other information?
Some lenders ask you to send them a copy of your credit record, payslips or bank statements.
Credit record – the lender can check your credit record themselves if they want. But you should download a copy of your credit record asap as the Ombudsman will ask for it. Don’t put this off, the sooner you get a report downloaded, the further back it goes which is good.
Don’t send payslips – they won’t help an affordability complaint and the ombudsman never asks for them.
It is a good idea to send bank statements. But think twice about the cost of copying and postage if there are a lot. Some lenders seem to ignore them if you do send them.
Again this is a good point to get those bank statements even if you do not want to send them as they will help an Ombudsman claim a lot. You can get them going back at least 6 years even if the account has been closed.
Lender says No or makes a poor offer
If the lender rejects your complaint or offers you a small amount, don’t be depressed. You may still have a very good case!
It is easy and free to send your case to the Financial Ombudsman where many thousands of people have won their payday loan complaints, despite being rejected by the lender.
Give up?
Some lenders try to make your case sound bad when it isn’t. People have had large amounts refunded after a complete rejection!
Just ignore any of the following comments, they do not mean you have a weak case:
- they relied on your loan applications and you didn’t give accurate facts – see Lender says I lied for more about this;
- you repaid some loans early – this doesn’t prove the loans were affordable, just that you were trying to save interest;
- your borrowing didn’t go up every time – irrelevant, what matters is that you kept borrowing;
- you had a good enough credit score or they didn’t legally have to check your credit record – if you only had one or two small loans that is true. But if the loans were large or you kept borrowing, they should have looked more closely;
- your loans are over 6 years old – the Ombudsman will look at these even if the lender says they won’t!
A good enough case to go to the Ombudsman?
If you don’t know what to do, ask in the comments below this article. Accepting an offer settles your whole complaint – you can’t change your mind later.
Don’t worry that you will lose a small offer by going to the Ombudsman – this doesn’t happen.
Some points to think about:
- if you are offered a refund on only a few loans, don’t accept it if you think the lender should have realised a lot of the other loans were unaffordable;
- an offer to write off your current balance may sound convenient … but it may be very poor if you should get a refund as well;
- if getting defaults or late payments removed from your credit record is important to you, are you happy with what the lender is proposing to do? Don’t assume your credit record will be cleared if the lender didn’t mention this.
One or two loan cases are hard to win at the Ombudsman. It’s probably best to give up on one or two loan cases unless:
- the loan was large. Here is one single loan case that was won even though it was an installment loan and the borrower had a good income. And another single loan case for a loan of £1,000. You can win cases for smaller amounts if the repayment would have been a large amount of your income; or
- you still owe money.
Don’t delay too long – there is a 6-month time limit after a lender rejects your complaint to send the case to the ombudsman. When you aren’t sure, send the complaint to FOS. This is easy to do – let FOS make the decision.
How to send a complaint to FOS
Put in a separate complaint about each lender.
Don’t wait until all your lenders have replied before sending the first one to the Ombudsman!
FOS’s “complain online” option is easy and takes you through your complaint step by step.
You can just copy what you said in your complaint to the lender. You can add more details, for example, if you disagree with what the lender replied to you.
If some of your loans were over 6 years ago, tell the Ombudsman when and how you found out about these complaints. For example:
“I knew the loans were causing me difficulty in 2016, but I thought this was my fault for being bad with money. I didn’t find out that the lender should have checked the loans were affordable until June 2022 when my brother told me about these claims/I saw an advert from a claims company on Facebook/I read an article about these claims” – change this so it is right for your case!
Things to attach:
- the reply you have had from the lender.
- bank statements if you have them. Ideally from 3 months before your first loan until the last loan was repaid or you defaulted on it. This strengthens your case, showing how unaffordable the loans were. You can still get bank statements even if your account is closed – if you don’t have them, start the process of getting them now, don’t wait until FOS asks for them.
- a copy of your TransUnion Statutory credit report
- a copy of the credit agreements for the loans if you have them. If you don’t, don’t worry, FOS will get them from the lender.
What happens after you have sent a case to FOS
You will normally be contacted within a couple of weeks and asked for a copy of your credit record and your bank statements if you haven’t sent these. If you have sent these on one complaint, then when you complain about a different lender they will use the ones they already have.
After this initial contact, your case will wait for the lender to send FOS your case file and then wait to be picked up by an adjudicator who will make a decision on it.
If you are still making payments to the lender, tell the lender you want to reduce these to an affordable amount. This will make waiting for an Ombudsman decision much less stressful for you.
The Financial Ombudsman has a two-stage process. Most cases are settled by the first “adjudicator” stage but about 10% go to the second “Ombudsman” stage.
A few problem cases
Don’t ask for a refund:
- if you are bankrupt now or have been bankrupt in the past – any refund would go to the Official Receiver.
- if you are in an IVA, as refunds will go to your IVA firm not to you. If your IVA has finished the refund may still be sent to your old IVA firm.
- if you are in a DRO now, getting a refund may mean your DRO is cancelled!
More help
You can ask a question in the comments below – you may get a reply from someone who has been in your exact situation.
Don’t use a claims management company. They are expensive and often incompetent. It’s easy to do this yourself and you can ask questions below and get replies from other readers who have done this.
Card & catalogue affordability complaints
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief Order help you?
tracy says
hi i wonder if i can get some advice, after hearing i could complain re these pd loans etc i requested a statement of loans I had had from cash converters. This paperwork showed i had taken out 33 payday loans most of these either been taken out again either on the day the last payment had been made or within 4 weeks of the last payment. I have also had 11 larger loans some of these been renewals. In total i have calculated i have paid approx 4000 in interest and late charges (only about 3 of these) this figure does not include the 99£ fee that shows up on each of the larger renewal loans as not sure if should be included. I sent off my complaint and have today missed a call from them (also a email) saying they would like to discuss the results of their investigations.
What should i be saying to them regarding this do you think, i was (as a fulltime carer for my disabled husband and mum to 5 )in receipt of benefits only at the time of lending and had got my self into a cycle of borrowing and only got out when they did actually refuse to lend to me because my benefits had reduced due to a child leaving home etc.
I cannot see anyone else who has commented re cash converters so i am a bit worried they will reject and then what do i do
thank you for reading
tracy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Tracy
We have had people win cases with cash converters. A couple of comments:
“Had a letter today from cash converters they upheld my complaint offering me £1250 that’s interest +8% I have have rang up to accept. I need to go into store to collect my cheque”
“Cash Converters: £700 refund from in shop loans in 2010”
It sounds as though you have a very strong case. If they say No or offer you a small amount, take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman as the person in that last comment did!
tracy says
hi i have received this email this morning should i ring her or let her put the offer in writing, i am a little unsure about talking to her not sure what to say
Good morning Mrs Allen,
“I am writing regarding the recent email you sent to us about payday loans you received from Cash Converters.
I have been investigating the complaint for you, but in order to continue with my investigation I do need to speak to you to clarify some details regarding a potential refund of some of your interest and charges.
I would be grateful if you could give me a quick call on……!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you may as well ring. If you are unclear on what they offering, or feel you are being pushed to accept an offer over the phone, ask them to put it in writing.
tracy says
UPDATE
Having spoke to the lady today, she said she’d looked at the loans were they had done everything correct and then at the ones were the perhaps should have realised i was using them not as a emergency that they were designed to be for. those that had what they call a lending break (as little as a day counts a break) where according to her, correct. she has offered me just over half of what i paid back on the interest and charges. i am really unsure as to accept this as figure is really only the interest that i paid on the longer term ones that were renewed midway through plus 9 of the 33 pd that were renewed on the same day. all but 6 of the rest were renewed with the same month. should i push for the interest from those or just be grateful for anything. thank you for your help.
Ps if i accept this offer would i expect her to add the 8% simple interest or would that be in the offer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You said your interest was about £4000, to which you do need to add about £1000 for the £99 fee on the eleven larger loans.
And CC have offered just over half, so about £2200 say (I’m guessing as it’s easier to talk figures.).
Well, first it’s a serious amount of money, not a stupidly low £200 to make you go away. If a lender offers you nothing or very little that doesn’t mean you have a bad case, but if you are made a serious offer then you definitely have a good case to go to the Ombudsman – which you knew already because of the number of loans you had with them, but it’s nice to have it confirmed :)
If they didn’t say 8% interest would be added, my guess is that it won’t be, or they would have said as an incentive for you to agree. But if you decide that adding the 8% s would be enough for you to accept, ring her back and say that. What dates were your loans? The extra interest could mean typically between 15 and 35% extra depending on how long ago they were – which is a lot of money!
Having said this is a serious offer, the other important point is that. It doesn’t sound as though it is using the same approach that the Ombudsman would use. You have spotted the biggest issue – what a “lending gap” is. The Ombudsman would regard a gap of a few days as insignificant. The affordability definition means you have to be able to repay a loan and get through the month without further borrowing.
Also the Ombudsman often decides that after did/mm/yy all loans were unaffordable, rather than look at 44 loans individually.. if you take this case to the FOS I would say it’s pretty likely you would get a lot more money back, if I had to guess (and obviously I don’t know the details) probably 3500 – 4500 plus interest back.
You may be happy to settle for less, it’s partly a question of what feels fair to you. Many people here are happy to take a refund of the interest and not get the extra 8%s. But this is a lot of money and it can make a big difference to your family,
tracy says
Final roundup……………
put in complaint to CC 11/11/16 contacted back from them 9/12/16 re 33 pd loans 11 long term first offer 2500 left me weekend to think about it called back monday 12/12/16 told them no gave them figure we thought fair (4500) they agreed 4000, all paid into account yesterday
nice quick turn around. Would like to say big thank you for all your help, good luck to all those others still waiting
Hannah says
So my main complaint was with quickquid borrowed pretty much every month since 2010 I first summited my complaint in April and today I received the ombudsman’s final decision in my favour refund plus interest on all loans from August 2010 :D
I never in a million years thought I’d get anything back its been stressful waiting and quickquid trying their hardest fight it at every opportunity including provisional final decision I almost threw the towel in but today I’m so glad I stuck with it I’ve posted my acceptance form for the final decision so fingers crossed my refund will be with me sometime soon, I’m not sure how much I’m getting I worked out I paid around £3,000 in fees with the 8% interest on top that will be amazing
Thank you so much Sara you have helped so many people and I wish I could do something to repay you personally, my local CAB will be getting a donation
Louise says
Well,24/7 moneybox finally responded and due refund in account very soon.
Had a letter today saying ombudsman has upheld all loans from March 2010-november 2010, have sent in form already, and hopefully QQ will pay up soon, I’ve worked out its roughly £1600 before 8% added on.
Just WDA to go! That’s a big one too, its with adjudicator and WDA should have responded by yesterday, hopefully they will but fully expecting this to go to ombudsman as well.
Harry says
I put in a claim with Wonga for 48 loans between 2011-2016, they have offered me a refund on interest plus 8% on all loans 2011-2014 which amounts to £2900, and removal from my credit file. They said at that point new affordability checks came into place so they won’t offer refunds after that. I have had to accept this offer to try to stave off going under, the refund will be a massive help but I can’t help feeling that I could get a lot more if I had the time to purse it with the ombudsman. Does the fact I’ve accepted the offer mean I can’t lodge a complaint with the ombudsman for 2015-2016?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can’t now go to the Ombudsman :(
(I am assuming you haven’t literally just accepted the offer on the phone – if you have, call them straight back and say you have changed your mind!)
This sort of situation is the reason I encourage people who have current financial problems to talk to StepChange and get a temporary Debt Management Plan set up. This can stabilise your situation so that you don’t feel forced to accept the first offer from a lender, instead you can take the extra few months to take a case to the Ombudsman and possibly get a lot more money.
Kelly says
Good Morning all,
Another victory for me.. PDUK have been advised by my adjudicator to repay interest on all loans from loan no.3
I only had 7 loads with them however I rolled them over enough to build up interest.
They also defaulted me a few years ago however my adjudicator has asked for this to be removed.
I think my refund will be in the region of £1000 which I’m happy with as I can use this to repay my remaining debts.
I really need to stress to everyone who is reading and wondering if they should start this process… I started most of mine back on May. It is a long process but its worth. This site gave me the confidence to query everything on my credit file and since then I’ve been able to open a full current account again, pay off/wipe off debts, get an improved rate on my credit card and save to buy a house. In other words, its been life changing.
So, if you’re reading this and haven’t started the process.. Just do it!
Kat says
I passed all 3 of my complaints to the ombudsman and the adjucator reached a decision that all 3 companies should refund all intrest on all loans plus 8% they were all given until the 2nd to reply but none of them did so they have all been given until the 12th to reply. What happens now if none of them reply by close of business tomorrow?
Neil says
If an Adjudicator reaches a decision, and there is no communication from the business one way or another, I believe it automatically gets escalated to an Ombudsman. I’m still not sure whether lenders use this as a deliberate delaying tactic, or whether they are just too busy to reply in the 2-week time frame.
Of course, if new evidence is presented by the lender, or they formally reject the Adjudicator decision, it does to the Ombudsman anyway. However, as will probably be stated in your letter, the outcome is unlikely to change unless new facts come to light or new evidence is presented.
Kat says
I have had contact from my adjudictor to say payday uk have disagreed and sent back an in detail email which she will have to look through. Wonga and quick quid have not responded atall
Michellew says
Finally got my reply from Money Shop not upholding my complaint but willing to knock the interest off the outstanding balance of the cheques that did not clear. For nearly 6 years I was monthly renewing the cheques and at the end paying back £17.50 per cheque and after the 3 roll overs, paid the cheques, and the cycle started again, until 2012 when I defaulted as I could no longer do this anymore but they said I was not dependant upon this and could afford it.
So I have today sent it to FOS as surely cheque renewing each month for over 6 years is a sign of somebody becoming dependant upon this.
Does anybody know how long it is taking the FOS to pick up complaints as I have one already with them for QQ.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If your QQ complaint has been picked up, ask the adjudicator if they can also take the Money Shop one, that can speed things up.
Do you have a list of your money shop loans? Some people have been able to get them from their local branch.
If you haven’t, then I am afraid you have to consider paying £10 for a Subject Access Request. One of the main reasons MS complaints take so long is the lack of evidence from bank statements about what was borrowed. MS can’t refuse to send you a list of the loans under a SAR – they have tried this and been told off by the ICO (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ico-money-shop/).
Jenny says
Hi has anyone issued a com plaint to Pduk even though they were part of there redress scheme?
I did as I complained that all the loans were unaffordable and not jus the two they were suggesting-I had about 30 loans in total.
My com plaint got passed to FO but is now on hold as they are discussing how to approach complaints where their has already been some sort of redress. Thing is I have been waiting since end of July and my complaint is still on hold. The adjudicator I have been in contact with is not very helpful and she doesnt know what’s happening and it’s just on hold whilst they still review. Apparently any decision will effect both current and future cases. Anyone else in the same boat?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Several people are currently in this limbo. You could phone up and ask to speak to a team leader, but they may be little you can do except wait.
Simon says
Another success story: After settling for £570 refund from Mr Lender (all interest of all loans minus loan no. 1) Wageday Advance have just sent me a letter (only 10days after my complaint commenced). They have offered a refund on all interest from all loans (apart from loan 1) +. 8% simple interest, totally £1100!
For all their faults, some of these lenders appear to be taking these complaints seriously and dealing with them in a timely manner. PDUK, PDEx and Wonga to go!
Mike says
I’m waiting on Wonga. Had an email 2 weeks after submitting my original complaint stating that ‘it was taking longer than expected to look into my case’ so now I’m waiting patiently. 5 weeks since original complaint submitted so 3 weeks to go until I refer to the Ombudsman!
Good luck mate.
Michelle says
Hi Simon
Just seems to vary, wageday responded to me within 10 days with a go away letter and mr lender made me an offer but only from loan 9 onwards which is potentially £4000 short of max offer if I got all loans refunded.
Seems impossible to work out any logic for them ? Congrats tho on your luck ?
Michellew says
My complaint against PDEX was up last Friday and just received a reply from them which I just couldn’t believe, what a waste of time so I am taking them to the FOS. I sent my original claim in on 14 October, as I had not received confirmation I chased them up 4 weeks later, received a reply saying that they could not open word documents so had not been able to progress my complaint and could I now send it in a pdf format. (Why wait 4 weeks before I was told of this and until I chased them) and that they would backdate my complaint to 14 October.
I have emailed them this morning to say that the 8 weeks was up and no final response but was going to the FOS, they have now replied by saying sorry for the delay in response but they cannot find my details. So that’s 8 weeks in total and not even looked at. Disgraceful.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can’t open a Word document? LOL another bizarre excuse from a payday lender.
I suggest going straight to the FOS, as you have the evidence from your emails of when your complaint went in. PDEX wouldn’t have given you a good offer anyway so in practice you haven’t wasted any time!
Nim says
Hi Sara ( debt camel) and ALL,
just an update from Payday express ( also trading as instant cash loans) today:
Originally put in a complaint on the 11th of Nov 2016. Received final response letter 12th Dec 2016 (4 weeks). Quite a quick turnaround, but disappointing resolution!!
I took out 8 loans from them from 2012 – 2016.
They are only considering my current loan from July 2016 for 2k plus interest – total 3638. (I have stopped payment and they have accepted a £1 token payment until my complaint is resolved).
This is the response:
– I can confirm that £1783.74 is still outstanding on the account. Should you accept our resolution this balance would then reduce by £370.56 to £1413.18.
In summary you took seven loans, two top ups and six deferrals with Payday Express between 16 March 2012 and 2 July 2016 and you have a balance currently outstanding on your seventh and final loan of £1783.74.
However it appears that upon completing your loan deferrals taken on 28 June 2013, 31 July 2013, 30 August 2013 Payday Express should have carried out the necessary further checks to ascertain the affordability of these deferrals. As a result of this I am upholding your complaint with regards to these deferrals with Payday Express. Also Payday Express voluntarily signed the ‘Customer Charter’ in November 2012 which contained guidance that a customer should not be allowed to rollover or defer their loan on more than three consecutive occasions. It has become apparent that in this instance, Payday Express has not followed the guidance that was issued concerning your fourth deferral in relation to loan number four. On 30 September 2013 you were allowed to defer for the fourth time and this has meant that additional interest was paid of £37.46. Although the ‘Customer Charter’ was only guidance it is evident that loans were deferred on additional occasions at this time; as such I am also upholding your complaint regarding this matter with regard to any deferrals completed outside of the Customer Charter.
So….admitting further checks should have been made, they have not even considered ANY of the past loans!! -total interest in the region of £2400 paid. How insulting! I have refused their offer and told them I am referring response to my complaint o the FOS.- sent off today.
What do you think Sara?
Best
Nim
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Nim, this isn’t the first case I have seen where Payday Express offer a very small refund saying that one or two loans shouldn’t have been given more than three rollovers. But this doesn’t take account of your complaint that the loans were unaffordable. I suggest you take the case to the Ombudsman.
Louise says
Well that’s me done with all my complaints now! WDA came back to say they agreed with adjudicator. QQ have been ordered to pay up, and 24/7 have said they will be paying me asap. 247 went all the way to the ombudsman, and they tried to ignore the final decision. I had to threaten to escalate. They eventually got in touch asking for bank details. They pretty much ignored all contact throughout process!
Thanks for all your help!
Michelle says
247 made me an offer over 2 weeks ago. I replied asking if they would add the 8% statutory interest then haven’t heard back. I’ve e mailed daily but getting bored now.
Silly as it’s only around £300 so part of me hopes they don’t respond for another 2 weeks so I can go to FOS. They can get charged the £550 ombudsman fee plus pay me ?
Lynnette says
Well this is a very long process for me started complaints back at start of April and still have QuickQuid and PaydayExpress to go emailed my adjudicator today who replied to say
“I’ve had a look over your cases and I can see both of them are still waiting to be assigned to an ombudsman.
I appreciate both cases are taking longer than what we would like to get resolved but we are doing all we can to progress them. Realistically I can’t see them being resolved this side of the new year but we will be in touch to let you know when they’ve been progressed.
I hope this helps. If in the meantime you have any questions please get in touch.
Kind Regards”
Looks like I’m still not near the end, let’s hope it starts moving on soon, both complaints been waiting with ombudsman since august.
Keep fighting people they really are there to help it just seems I’m guessing that they are extremely harassed and bogged down with complaints I think.
Jess says
I have passed my complaint with Lending Stream onto the FOS, would anyone who’s been in contact with FOS before let me know how long it’s taken for it to be sorted?
I’ve also made a compaint with Wonga and am yet to get a reply, has anyone else complained to Wonga and if so did they reply and how long did it take?
Thanks
Michelle says
Hi Jess,
I’m within my 8 weeks but had a few companies tell me to go away already. I opened cases with FOS prior to 8 weeks as they write to payday companies to remind them of the 8 week rule which at least makes them know you are serious. I’ve submitted all bank statements, credit reports and lenders statements that I have so if I now hit 8 weeks or get another go away letter or insulting offer then FOS are ready to act straight away.
It took them just over 4 weeks for adjudicator to decide with first company.
Some people have taken months but think it depends how quickly you can get bank stats etc to them, how quickly other company respond. Have you given them enough to make a decision, if you or company decline adjudicators suggestion and want ombudsman to look at it and also if loans are over 6 years old.
Good luck
claire says
Hi
Wonga agreed with adudicator on Thursday and they paid me today Monday very fast…although I contacted them friday to see how long it would take so Im extremely pleased…Thankyou to this site not bad offered 75 pound to coming out with 795 pound its well worth going to the ombudsmen
SARAH says
Hi
Can anyone help me with this reply please? It’s from Uncle Buck. As you can see, I have quite an extensive history with them.. They haven’t sent full statements of account to me, and their response doesn’t include any details of figures in respect of interest paid, so I don’t know if its a reasonable offer or not. I’d really appreciate some help with this!
———————————————————————————–
1) You made your first loan application on 19 February 2014, for an amount of £250.00. During the period of February 2014, you opted to rollover your loan
2) next loan application on 9 April 2014, for an amount of £250.00
3) next loan application on 2 May 2014, for an amount of £250.00
4) next loan application on 11 June 2014, for an amount of £250.00
5) next loan application on 5 July 2014, for an amount of £400.00
6) next loan application on 5 July 2014, for an amount of £400.00
7) next loan application on 31 August 2014, for an amount of £475.00
8) next loan application on 25 September 2014, for an amount of £500.00 – we offered you a reduced amount of £480.00
9) next loan application on 3 November 2014, for an amount of £600.00 we offered you a reduced amount of £480.0
10) next loan application on 28 November 2014, for an amount of £600.00 we offered you a reduced amount of £480.00
11) next loan application on 29 December 2014, for an amount of £600.00 we offered you a reduced amount of £480.00
12) next loan application on 11 February 2015, for an amount of £475.00
13) next loan application on 11 February 2015, for an amount of £800.00, to be repaid over three monthly instalments
14) final loan application on 30 November 2015, for an amount of £800.00, to be repaid over three monthly repayments. first instalment was successfully received on 22 December 2015, second instalment declined and your account fell into arrears.
Although I am satisfied that your applications underwent sufficient credit and affordability checks, I can see some of your loans were within quick succession of each other. I consider we ought to have been aware that you were becoming reliant on our loans, as a result of this. I don’t consider we were reasonable to approve loans four to fifteen, without probing your finances further. As a resolution, I am proposing to refund the interest and charges, plus 8% statutory interest per annum for loans four to fifteen, offsetting this against the balance outstanding on the final loan. This would result in a refund to you of £538.73.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Sarah, what a bizarre way to send out a business letter, nearly 2000 words and very hard to read. I have edited it a lot and removed the standard guff. I have also numbered the loans which makes it easier to follow. Perhaps they are hoping your eyes will glaze over and you will assume they have looked into this properly and just accept their offer…
I suspect that have made some errors in typing out all those details. Loan 6 they have beginning on the the same day as loan 5 – I think it should probably be some time the following month. Dates for loan 13 also look wrong.
They have offered to refund from loan 4. As you rolled the first loan, if you went to the ombudsman the decision might be from loan 2 or 3, but refunding from loan 4 is a reasonable offer and if they have got the arithmetic right, it’s probably a good one to accept.
They haven’t said if they will delete loans 4-15 from your credit record – you should ask them to do this if you decide to accept the offer.
So the question is, is their arithmetic right? The first thing is to check that their list of loans is correct. There is a big gap between loans 13 and loan 14 (the final one) on their list – is this right? They also mention they are going to refund interest paid on loans 4-15 – but they have only listed 14 loans – this could be becuase the first was rolled once, or perhaps they have missed one off the list?
Do you have emails confirming each of these? Or even better, can you check from your bank statements – that would also let you check what you paid to them. If you can’t get these figures, you need to ask the to lat you know what you repaid on each loan. Say you are considering whether to accept their offer and would a list of all 15 loans showing what you have paid to each.
You borrowed £800 on the last loan and made one repayment of £391 and haven’t paid anything since? If that’s right, then there is a balance to pay of 800-391 = £409 on the last loan. They are offering a refund of £538, so that means they have calculated that the interest you have paid on loans 4-14 (ignoring loan 15 as that one’s been taken care of in the outstanding balance calculation) plus 8% is 538+409 = £947. If we assume the 8% extra adds up to about 2 years worth that suggest you have paid about £820 in interest on the loans they are refunding. That is possible but it looks low to me – the interest you paid on loan 13 alone was £375, so that would imply about £50 average interest on the other loans.
I can’t say their offer is wrong, but I think you should try to get the details so you can be more sure it’s right. Hopefully this won’t have to go to the Ombudsman but you have an excellent case. Not only were you borrowing repeatedly with very short intervals, but they even continued to loan when you had started regularly asking for more = then they thought you could afford which should have be a huge warning signal to them!
Sarah says
Thanks Sara
I’ve emailed them again.asking for a copy of my loans with them showing amount borrowed and repaid. I did this 10 weeks ago and didn’t receive a reply. I think if they don’t reply I’ll refer to FOS. Thanks again
sarah says
Thanks Sara!
I have received my statement of account today, and it shows I have paid £2313 total interest on all the loans, and £2085 on loans 4-14. I think I’ll reply pointing this out! They are saying they have not offered to write off the interest on loan 14, and there is £835 outstanding. Even taking this into account, the refund should still be £1250, plus interest. I was going to reply detailing this, and stating I will accept a refund of £1250 plus interest, in the interest of avoiding the FOS. Is this a good way to go, or will they simply laugh that off do you think?!
On the good news front, I have received over £4000 from Wonga, with nothing other than my original complaint email that I copied from your website! And £1100 from Sunny. Thank you for all your help. This is truly life changing for me.
BW
Sarah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So they haven’t changed their offer? Were there 14 or 15 loans listed? I can’t understand the logic of not offering to remove the interest from the last loan!
I think your suggestion sounds like a reasonable compromise – I don’t know how likely they are to accept it.
sarah says
Hi Sara. this is the reply from Uncle Buck I received today…. Do you think this is a reasonable offer? My gu instinct is to be stubborn, and go to FOS, but I’m also considering the hassle that involves, and I’m tempted to accept. Please could I have your opinion on it? Really appreciate your help – Thank you very much.
Thank you for your most recent email.
I understand there have been errors in our final response, I’d like to offer my sincere apologies for this.
I have reviewed your account history with us afresh, and unfortunately I do not agree to your counter offer of writing off the outstanding balance, plus a refund of approximately £1 250.00 plus 8% per annum statutory interest.
I do not consider your deferral request on the first loan as a sign that all subsequent loans were unaffordable for you. Deferrals are permissible under current regulations, so if the Financial Conduct Authority regarded them as a sign of financial difficulty, then I don’t consider they would be allowed. In addition, you did not make any further deferrals, and instead repaid each subsequent loan on time and as per the loan agreement with the exception of the last loan – these actions do not denote financial difficulty.
I would like to reiterate the offer we’ve made to you is not because we agree the loans were unaffordable for you. You will recall with each loan, you made an application to us, and informed us that you obtained a certain income and paid out a certain expenditure, resulting in a certain disposable income which was in excess of the loan repayment. If these loans were unaffordable for you, then this is the case because you provided inaccurate information regarding your income and expenditure.
Rather, we have made an offer to you for the loans that were approved sequentially. What this means is that of the loans that you borrowed continuously, we think we ought to have picked up on your pattern of borrowing and considered you were in a borrowing cycle. Because we did not pick up on this, we are offering to refund you.
I appreciate there has been a discrepancy regarding which loans were are prepared to refund, and that the deferral has been referred to as a loan previously. For clarity, I attach a spreadsheet of the loans I am offering to refund. You will see that I am offering to refund from the fourth loan, not counting the deferral as a separate loan, so from loan 743296 on the statement of account.
I am offering to refund up to loan 968579. I am not offering to refund the final two loans as there was a distinct break in the cycle of lending between loan 968579 and loan 1169413 – a period of more than six months. Therefore, the total refund amounts to £1 479.06 less the outstanding balance on the final loan of £835.77, results in a refund to you of £643.29.
As per our final response, if you remain unhappy you are welcome to escalate your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. However, their approach to affordability complaints is if our affordability checks were insufficient, they would want to see evidence that these loans were literally unaffordable for you, such as bank statements for all your accounts over the total period of lending. They would also take into account whether the offer that we’ve made you is reasonable under the circumstances. Taking into account you made each and every application, providing financial information to confirm the loans were affordable for you, and you have had the benefit of funds you agreed to repay with interest, I am satisfied that our offer is reasonable and one which the Financial Ombudsman Service would uphold.
Yours sincerely
sarah says
Ths is their list of my loans
Compo as of 9/12
Loan # Funded Date Interest & Charges Date settled 8%
743296 £87.38 26/06/2014 £17.18
765058 £139.80 31/07/2014 £26.41
786413 £139.80 28/08/2014 £25.55
813342 £166.01 25/09/2014 £29.33
836665 £167.76 30/10/2014 £28.35
873172 £167.76 27/11/2014 £27.32
896560 £167.76 22/12/2014 £26.40
928804 £167.76 29/01/2015 £25.00
968579 £60.80 26/02/2015 £8.69
Total £1,264.83 £214.23
£1,479.06
£835.77
Total Refunded £643.29
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well at least they are admitting there were errors in their first offer – it’s no wonder we couldn’t see what they were doing :)
However even after this new information, I am still not clear on two important points
1) were there 14 loans (the first of which was deferred) – or were there 15 loans, the first of which was deferred? If the latter, they haven’t supplied a list of 15 loans and they need to do this before you can make a decision.
2) what was the date of loan 13? In their original letter it said 11th February. In which case they should be refunding it! If this was an error (it’s pretty ridiculous having to guess what sort of errors they have made) and it was actually later, say August, 3 months payments would have ended Nov and again you immediately took out another 3 months loan with no gap at all, so why aren’t they refunding this?
It is convenient for them that it is the two large loans they are trying to avoid refunding on… A 6 month gap (if there was one – it’s hard to be sure) is a nuisance, but the FOS is quite likely to say that the last loan should have all the interest removed and may think that both the last 2 large loans should be refunded. Also if the last loan is refunded, it would be deleted from your credit record and the default removed – I don’t know if that is important to you.
sarah says
Hi Sara
After some to and fro-ing with Uncle Buck, I sent this message today;
”Thank you for your reply. I have considered your reply, and unfortunately I disagree with your decisions.
You have made many errors in your replies to my complaint, confusing amounts and dates, and, in fairness, this has made your replies somewhat difficult to understand. The fact that you offered reduced loan amounts to the amount I applied for signifies that you were. to some extent aware of my financial position.
The final two loans were taken out in very quick succession, and I believe the interest on the final loan amount should be included in the refund, and the capital written off, along with deleting loans 4-13, and loan 15 from my credit records.
I am confident that my bank statements show that these loans were unaffordable, and I am happy to provide these to you, or the financial ombudsman in support of my complaint.
Please advise me whether you wish to see my bank statements.
Thank you for your time.
Yours faithfully”
This is their response today:
I appreciate your point about dates – however I would urge you to look at the statement of account for clarity. If you’d prefer that I amend your original final response to include the correct date of for the loan of £800.00 to 2 September 2015, from 11 February 2015, I can arrange for this to be done. Once again, I would like to apologise for this error.
We offered you reduced loan amounts, as these were the amounts we considered were affordable for you, based on the information we had at the time, including the information you provided as part of your loan applications.
With reference to the final two loans, I concede the final loan was approved within quick succession of the second last loan being paid off – however considering there was a break of nearly six months between payment of the third last loan and approval of the second last loan – I do not consider the final two loans form part of a cycle of borrowing. This is why I have not agreed to refund the interest of the second last loan or remove the interest from the final loan.
You’ve said, “…I believe the interest on the final loan amount should be included in the refund and the capital written off…” The interest amount for the final loan of £800.00 was £374.88, however of the £1 174.88 repayable to us, you have only repaid £391.64 to date. Because I do not consider there to be a cycle of borrowing, I do not consider it reasonable to remove the interest on the final loan. However, even if I thought there was a cycle of borrowing, I wouldn’t be inclined to issue you with a refund, as you have not yet paid the interest (or the full principle sum). I wouldn’t refund to you that which you have not paid to us. Unfortunately, I would neither be inclined to write the principle sum off, but rather offset it against that which I am prepared to refund.
As for your request to remove these loans from your credit file – the Financial Ombudsman Service only asks that we remove negative information from credit files – if they consider loans to be unaffordable. With the exception of the final loan, all your loans were settled as per the loan agreement, therefore there’d be no negative information to remove. In respect of the final loan, if you were to accept my offer, and I offset the remaining balance from the refund I’ve offered, I would then mark your credit file as fully settled/closed.
In respect of your bank statements, I appreciate your point that they will evidence our loans were unaffordable for you. However Miss******, please remember that if these loans were genuinely unaffordable for you, we did ascertain this at application because you provided inaccurate information to us about your finances. On each application, you provided monthly income and expenditure which showed sufficient disposable income to cover our loans without causing you financial difficulty. We compared the financial information you provided to that which your credit file showed, and it appeared accurate. Therefore, I don’t think it’s reasonable that you hold us accountable for the incorrect information you provided to us, with the purpose of getting these loans approved – and I have presented this argument to the Financial Ombudsman Service many times – with success.
As I have previously advised, your affordability has never been something which I consider we mis-handled. I consider it was your pattern of borrowing we should have picked up on. So even though it could be argued that sequential borrowing does not matter if the loans are affordable each time, I have accepted some responsibility on Uncle Buck’s behalf, by offering to refund you due to consecutive lending.
As a result Miss ********* , I will not be seeking to increase the offer that has already been made to you. Whilst I understand you have been taking advice from Sara of Debt Camel, I would ask you to give my offer some serious thought, as it is fair and reasonable. However, if you are still not satisfied then you are within your rights to escalate the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service and I will liaise directly with them. Please refer to our final response for the time constraints in respect of raising your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
I’m tempted to go to to FOS, as I really don’t think this is completely fair. Do you think they are likely to include the last loans in any judgement?
thanks for your help
Sarah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I find it surprising UB didn’t ask to see your bank statements when you offered – it sounds as though they had already made up their mind.
I think there is a reasonable chance the last two loans may be included in the loans to be refunded because they were so much larger but I really can’t put a figure on it. If the last loan is included, the default would be removed – I don’t know if that is important to you. I can’t say much more than it’s up to you if the extra delay is worth the chance of a better result.
Ross says
Satsuma loans, surprisingly, agreed with my adjudicator and agreed to pay what they suggested +8%. However, they say they can only pay the refund via cheque as part of their ‘process’. Even the adjudicator was surprised at this. So, they can fund a loan to your account via a faster payment but, when it comes to paying back, they just want to make it as awkward as possible. I have been advised that they will do their ‘best’ to process the refund within the next 4 weeks. so I doubt I’ll see it this side of December. I’m just pleased to be rid of this company, as well as the others, to be honest. I will never visit this route ever again!
James says
Hi just thought I would give everyone an update of my cases so far, started my cases in July and have so far received,
£500 from Wonga
£1100 from 118 118 (all interest paid on a £3000 loan) and
£600 back from sunny loans (all interest).
My final 2 cases and the biggest ones have been upheld by the adjudicator who has asked payday uk to refund all interest from loan 3, they are being incredibly awkward and every time I speak to them they come up with another lie, the latest being that they never received the decision letter from my adjudicator! trying what i can to get them to pay out before Xmas but it’s hard work, word of advice to others is to chase a company daily once theve agreed to pay out, they seem to like telling lies and delaying it for as long as possible, this worked for me with sunny,
The fos have been fantastic and could not have a had a nicer more helpful adjudicator, thanks to Sara for this page I think by the end Il of clawed back atleast £4000 and better than that can never fall into this cycle again!
P.s how long have people waited for an ombusman to pick up a case?
Also has anyone else got a flexi account quikquid case that is taking a lot longer than anything else to be resolved? Good luck to all
Andy says
James – canni ask what loans you had with 118118? I took out an initial £2k, then at about the halfway stage, ‘started again’ taking out another loan, effectively paying off the balance on loan one and having the extra money for myself.
Did you have a number of loans with them?
James says
Hi Andy I only had one loan for £3000 with 118 118, I used it to pay off other loans and took a bigger amigo loan to pay it off early but was refunded all interest I paid on the account (around £1000) adjudicator ruled that they contributed to my spiral of debt and should of seen I was reliant on loans, good luck! 118 very quick with response and payout after adjudicator decision !
Rebecca says
Hi
I have now had the final decision from the Ombudsman so it is now binding on QQ. Has anyone got experience of how quickly QQ send the calculation of the refund and then the money itself. I know they have 28 days and I imagine they use all of these and drag it out as long as they can, but I was just wondering if anyone has had it paid sooner than the 28 days?
Daz says
Hi Sara
Just wondering if I can make the same complaint to Clydesdale Bank I had 6 Loans in a year with them each time i was taking out a new loan before the old one had finished and were steadily increasing in size starting from £1,000 up to £2,500 my argument is they could see I had a gambling problem and was regularly being charged for going overdrawn yet 12 months later they borrowed me £11,000 to clear debts however I didn’t clear the debts :( could I make a claim of irresponsible lending against a bank?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes! The affordability rules apply to all lenders. In one way it is easier to make a claim about a payday lender because the amount that has to be repaid the next amount is so large it’s easier to show it is unaffordable. But loans from banks tend to be larger, so they should have done more credit checks at the start. And when you were repaying and borrowing more, the bank should have stopped and asked itself what was going on. And if it is your own bank, so they could see your overdraft situation in gruesome details, they should have taken this into account.
You could quote from the FCA’s CONC handbook in your complaint:
“CONC 5.2.1R
(1) Before making a regulated credit agreement the firm must undertake an assessment of the creditworthiness of the customer.
(2) A firm carrying out the assessment required in (1) must consider:
(a) the potential for the commitments under the regulated credit agreement to adversely impact the customer’s financial situation, taking into account the information of which the firm is aware at the time the regulated credit agreement is to be made.”
That handbook only came into force in 2014, but if your borrowing was before that, it is still worth quoting as it accurately summarises what a responsible lender should have done even before 2014.
Morag says
Finally had an email from my adjucticator that she can look at my loans from the start of my complaint, i.e. 2009.
This is from a company called loansathome4u. This is classed as home credit!
Here’s to provident/Greenwoods which go back to 2007??
Good luck to everyone !
This was given to the FOS on may
Tom says
An update on my claims:
Settled:
– Wonga offered £4970 on 12/12/16 without going to FOS (initial complaint submitted to Wonga on 26/10/16)
– Mr Lender offered £685 on 19/10/16 without going to FOS (initial complaint submitted to Mr Lender on 18/10/16)
– Sunny offered £397 on 12/12/16 without going to FOS (initial complaint submitted to Sunny on 23/10/16)
With FOS:
– Payday Express rejected my complaint on 21/11/16 – (initial complaint submitted to PDExpress on 24/10/16)
– Payday UK rejected my complaint on 21/11/16 – (initial complaint submitted to PDUK on 24/10/16)
– Quick Quid rejected my complaint on 25/11/16 – (initial complaint submitted to QQ on 19/10/16)
Hoping to retrieve another 12k back from my final three complaints. Thanks you so much for this website – I will be making a donation to my local CAB in due course.
Thanks
Tom
Ron says
Hi Tom,
Nicely done.
Did Quick Quid reject your complaint completely without offering you any goodwill payment?
Thanks
Ron
Tom says
Hi Ron
They offered me a goodwill gesture of £200 but didn’t admit liability
N says
Tom
How much was your total payout per year to all your lenders, mine totalled nearly £22k one year and £7k the year after thankfully the whole lot of paid back, when I look back at my statements I wonder what on earth I was thinking about.
How I let myself get into that position I’ll never know, I literally had this juggling act every payday to pay one borrow another to pay another, I could spend a whole day just doing that, and then getting worried I wouldn’t get the loan to pay one back, there came a point when they stopped, wonga being first and then slowly the others, so I didn’t pay other bills to pay them back, I’m hopefully now on my way to recovery but will be another couple o f years until it’s all clear.
It would be really good to see what people actually paid back each year and what they are getting back.
Now living within my means!
Sara if I get anything back I’ll make a donation to your CAB without you and this site I would never have done this, and just mailed another company so now is a total of 7 lenders with complaints.
I had put this all down to a bad memory but now feel much more confident with everything.
N
N says
Just going through my statement and I paid
MR Lender and MrLender.com on alternate months which I guess is the same company
I paid out the following in 2014
Wonga 5000
Qq 4239
Both Mr lender 5000
Uncle buck 1500
Payday UK 1500
Wonga another 1500
Sunny 1500
2015
QQ 2015
Mr lender 1600
Other Mr lender 1000
Sunny 723
So I paid back nearly £26000 in two years looks more like about an 18 month period and I can’t see my statements from 2013 but I’m sure there was more then as well!
N
Jimbooo says
Hi I took out wonga and quickquid loans for a few years every month sometimes I would get them twice a minute month. I always paid them back on time but borrowed again as I needed month after paying them back. Is this a sign that they were unaffordable? My credit report shows them all as settled now. Can I make a claim? I sent the complaints to them using the template.
Also over the past 3 years I had a catalogue with fashion world I started with a credit limit of £250 which went right up to £3000. This was during the time I was using a lot of wonga and quick quid loans. I have since paid this all off only after taking a loan out with ocean finance who I also think should not of given me a £5000 loan as my credit score is way below average and they never asked for proof of income they just gave me the money rather easily.
Could I try to claim all interest back from all providers and get my loan cancelled with ocean? I would love to start a fresh with my finances as I now have a full time job again and have finally started clearing small credit card debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your claims against Wonga and QuickQuid sound like good ones – def take them to the Ombudsman if they are rejected or you are only offered a low refund.
You can also make a complaint against Fashion World. Many catalogies raise your credit limit far too easily. The regulator, the FCA, says:
“CONC 6.2.1R
(1) Before significantly increasing:
(a) the amount of credit to be provided under a regulated credit agreement; or
(b) a credit limit for running-account credit under a regulated credit agreement;
the lender must undertake an assessment of the customer’s creditworthiness.
(2) A firm carrying out the assessment in (1) must consider:
(a) the potential for the commitments under the regulated credit agreement to adversely impact the customer’s financial situation, taking into account the information of which the firm is aware at the time that the increase in (1) is to be granted; and
(b) the ability of the customer to make repayments as they fall due over the life of the regulated credit agreement, or for such an agreement which is an open-end agreement, to make repayments within a reasonable period.” Email address for complaints is AccountComplaints@fashionworld.co.uk.
Ocean Finance – you won’t get the loan cancelled, but you could ask for the interest to be removed from the loan. Complaint to contactus@oceanfinance.co.uk and put RESPONSIBLE LENDING COMPLAINT as the email subject. You need to be able to show that you can’t afford the monthly loan repayments without borrowing more money.
claire says
Been paid by Wonga yesterday but they have to clear my credit file atm they are on saying All settled is that the only change I thought they got totally removed?
Neil says
Hi Claire
I’m interested in knowing how you get on with this. I know it can take a while for credit files to be updated, but the more recent FOS decisions I’ve read state that all “negative” or “adverse” information be removed. To me, this reads more like the removal of any flags for late payments and / or defaults, rather than the removal entirely of all traces you ever took the loan.
For me, this is a big deal (I am pursuing my claims not for the cash, but for the removal of them from my credit file). If you’re able to keep your progress updated on this, I’d be really grateful :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s important to get credit records into perspective. Removing adverse information is essential for everyone. But payday loans that show as repaid in full and on time do not harm your credit record unless they are quite recent. So a mortgage lender will usually refuse an application if you have had payday loans in the last year. But longer ago, most don’t care.
Neil says
From my point of view, it’s the issue of obtaining a mortgage; I’ve heard various things about lenders refusing if they see even one payday loan on your record. I’m waiting until I’ve been one year clear of any further borrowing of any kind before applying for a mortgage, but concerned that the sheer volume of payday loans will raise alarm bells (even though the majority are from 2015). Anyway, that’s a different topic I suppose :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
First go to a mortgage broker, not direct to a lender. But anecdotally you should be OK if you have been clean of payday loans (sounds like drug addiction!) for over a years, see this comment here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-mortgage/comment-page-1/#comment-190823
becky says
Hi Sara,
I have over £800 owed with Ferratum – but have paid much more than this in interest over the last few years. I have sent off my letter of complaint but wanted to know where I stand with the upcoming payments? Will they freeze the account while its being invesitgated or am I expected to make payment as usual? or has anyone else had previous experience in a similar situation. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you can afford to make the payment without borrowing more, it’s best to carry on. If you can’t, you need to either offer a repayment plan (so much per month) or ask them to put a hold on it until the complaint is settled.
Ross says
Hi Becky,
Ferratum resolved my complaint within 48 hours, and to my satisfaction. They, and Mr Lender, were the quickest of the bunch. They were very fair and very uncondascending in their response. Hope you get a good result ?
Carol says
Hiya All, Can someone please advise. I had loans from Wonga that were closed down by them. I still have loans left with Provident, Zebit, Quick Quid (plus other that I have just had one loan with) – oh heck. Can I make a claim on the numerous ones only rather than just the 1 loan.
I also haven’t got a clue on how much I have paid, just a rough estimate on how much I still owe. Will I need to obtain this before even attempting to start claiming? Many Thanks, Carol
I posted this initially on 6/12/16 have I been barred or something please because I have received no advice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Definitely start with the numerous ones – it’s much harder to win a one loan complaint, so getting going with a few will give you more confidence:
– Zebit are a trading name of Lending Stream.
– for Provident, remove the bit in the template letter that says “payday” as otherwise they will reply they are not a payday lender – but exactly the same affordabilty rules apply to them!
– if you are still borrowing, think about a debt management plan to try to stabilise your finances. These complaints aren’t quick!
I suggest you just start with a slightly vague complaint “I had various loans from you between 2012 and 2014” or whatever and add a sentence at the end that you would like them to send you a full list of your loans and the amount you have repaid.
(I can’t see your post from 6/12 – it’s not published or in my spam folder, sorry! No-one gets barred here for asking questions, sometimes a comment doesn’t get replied to because it’s been busy.
Edit – Ive now seen your old comment – you used a different email address so that’s why I couldn’t find it!!)
Ross says
Well, a final response from Uncle Buck EXACTLY 8 weeks to the day since I made my complaint. Like another poster on here, a word document that could put war and peace to shame?!? Partially upholding, from loan 3 onwards, but telling me off for playing the national lottery? Apparently, that’s what they call a ‘lifestyle choice’?!? Anyway, all interest and charges plus 8% back for loan 3 onwards, so I’ll take that. Another one I have closure on and NEVER to be revisited!
Rebecca says
Hi
Anyone with a QQ upheld compliant by ombudsman and QQ paid out, did you have to wait for them to get in touch or is there a phone number you can call at QQ to discuss the calculation. I have tried the number on the website but they say they can’t discuss it with me or put me through to the team dealing with it. I keep calling on the off chance that they might be able to tell me more but dont want to be done for harrassing them!! I know I am being impatient!
Rachel says
Fos took my bank details and passed onto QQ they paid in a week didn’t have to contact them at all
MR says
I accepted a QQ settlement offer at adjudicator stage. QQ asked me to contact their Final Resolution Department on 0800 016 3114 to discuss how the settlement was to be made to me. I called them and provided my current bank details and then followed up immediately with an email to support@quickquid.co.uk (see suggested email below). Payment was made approximately 8 days later.
_______________
Re: QuickQuid Customer ID:XXXXXXX
Dear Sir/Madam,
I refer to my telephone call today to your Final Resolution Department when I confirmed my updated bank account details (and your email confirmation received subsequently). As also referred to in the call, I confirmed the [settlement amount / final decision of the Financial Ombudsman] of the amount of £Xxxxin [or if exact figure not known, summarise decision] in respect of my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman against Casheuronet UK LLC (Complaint ref: XXXXXXX) in respect of Quick Quid loan chains XXXXXXX and XXXXXX.
To summarise the [agreed settlement/Ombudsman decisions] was: [restate details].
Copies of the relevant Financial Ombudsman correspondence are attached below for your information.
I look forward to payment of the above amount into my bank account shortly.
Thank you in anticipation of your prompt settlement of my complaint.
Yours sincerely,
martin says
mine went to ombudsman on 16th september has now been dealt about 3 weeks ago just waiting for money to be settled what worries me is that the amount is worked out by loan comapny i cannot work out if it correct amount yours must be coming up soon if not ring them to see where its at
Wiggles says
QQ (4.4K interest over the life time) have flat out refused my claim so off to the FoS it goes, I have an open case with the FoS for Lending Stream who offered a measly amount initially £176.00 and then £565.66 with offering to write off outstanding amounts (4.1k Interest over the life time).
Sunny (£833 Over the lifetime) was the standout of the bunch and was like yeah, we agree and gave me everything back wiped the credit references and all before the 8 weeks time frame.
Im just waiting to hear back from Wonga (5.2K interest over the life) now (they have a few weeks due to them dragging their feet getting me the info)
So to everyone out there keep on poking and keep on these money vampires
Barbara says
Hi, I had taken out 11 loans with LS and have 2 outstanding with them.
I’ve received the following long reply back from them and unsure what is my next step.
“Affordability Checks:
We confirm that an affordability analysis is conducted for all customers (existing or new) and on each loan application. Our advanced analytics and underwriting processes review the information provided by the customer, all public information, and details held by Credit Reference Agencies before making a decision.
Your Experian score was ranging between 682 – 738. This was factored into our proprietary underwriting and deemed acceptable At the time of each application, you were employed full time We could observe a sufficient disposable income, which denoted that repayments towards the loans could have been made without any financial difficulties You were approved only for the amount you were eligible for Although we received additional applications, they were declined as they did not meet our lending criteria We expect our customers to include any current obligations due to be paid while filling the expenditure details to ensure a fair assessment of their disposable income and ability to make repayments. The data shared in your applications indicated that your monthly income well exceeded your expenses and that repayments towards the loans could have been made without any financial difficulties. When a customer requests for a credit report from a Credit Reference Agency, he or she may acquire specific information including names of different lenders’ and their respective reporting, however, when a financial institution does a credit search on a customer’s credit report, they are not privy to that exact information. Hence, our decision to lend money does in part rely on the information received from Experian (credit scores). Our constant message to customers whose circumstances change, or who experience hardship, is to speak to us and we will work something out together. However, upon reviewing your accounts, we found that we were never informed about any financial hardship. Therefore, we had no reason to believe that the loans could have caused financial distress. Having said the above, we believe that Lending Stream has behaved responsibly in approving your loans and has dealt with them fairly. However, understanding your circumstances are difficult at present, we are ready to extend our support in clearing the debt and offer to set up an affordable payment arrangement for your accounts.”
Please can you help me in what to do next. I’m really unhappy with this reply. I’m still waiting for wonga, pay day uk and mr lender to get back to me.
Thanks
B
Sara (Debt Camel) says
– how many loans did you have from LS over what period? did you roll any of them? were any of them installment loans?
– do you think your credit score would not have been good at this time – would it have shown defaults or CCJs? Lots of people have been quoted bizarrely high credity scores by LS, not right at all
Barbara says
Hi Sara
What I can see from my last 12 months bank statement I had taken out the following loans with LS. I dont think they were installment loans. I definetly do not think my credit score would have been that high. I had been in debit on my bank accounts and had taken over pay day loans and finances.
1 loan dec 2015
2 loans mar 2016
1 loan april 2016
1 loan may 2016
1 loan aug 2016
1 loan sep 2016
1 loan oct 2016
Thanks b
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s worth double checking whether the Dec15 and May16 loans were actually 3 month loans – look to see if there were repayments in the next few months to them.
I suggest getting a copy of your Noddle credit record – it’s free, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ – and then sending your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.
George says
I’ve taken out 28 separate loans with lending stream and 10 with quick quid over the last year and a half and have recently submitted a complaint to both lenders. For the first couple of loans i took out i was living with a parent and had no regular expenses, however i moved out and now have several monthly expenses and only a minimum wage income based on 30 hours work a week. I didn’t update the details of my circumstances when I moved out because I didn’t want to be rejected and not be able to afford to pay the house hold bills. I have little to no disposable income every month and there is no possible way I can get out of this loop of lending without a refund. So my question is, considering I have failed to update the details of my monthly expenditure, do I have still have a valid argument?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi George,
it sounds as though you have borrowed consistently from QQ and LS over a long period. In this case, the lenders should have realised that perhaps there was something wrong with your reported circumstances! So if the cases go to the Financial Ombudsman (and they sound like good cases, if you are rejected or only offered a small amount it’s worth going to the FOS), the FO may well decide it was OK for the lenders to giver you the first few loans but after some point they should have stopped lending. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-lender-says-lied/ for more details.
N says
Just going back in time this morning, so I had 2 loans payable in may 2014 One fir £1175 and another for £975 on the same day! My monthly wage was about £2200 then….and they are saying they lent responsibly!
Its painful looking back at those days and I wonder how I did it, and work etc and keep it a secret!
Anyway onwards and upwards let’s see what they all reply with!
N
MR says
Don’t get too hung-up on past decisions regarding payday loans. I am a professional, was earning in excess of £5,000 net p/mth, but got involved in taking out payday loans. Initially, it was purely intended as a one-off, but eventually I took out well over 100 separate payday loans with a multitude of different lenders over a 2-yr period. Once into the spiral of debt caused by these payday loans, every month became a minefield of balancing what was owed, what loans I needed to repay or carry-over and which lenders I could immediately take out new loans with to pay the others. It became a job in itself. Friends would openly criticise the people who take out these payday loans, but I never admitted that I was one of them!
A few years on, I can look back and see exactly how these lenders capitalised on the vulnerable and totally ignored affordability checks or reviewed the repeated loans or extensions they alone offered – driven purely by greed. All of which was totally contrary to the regulations and guidelines. I recently pursued complaints against 2 of the lenders and already I am £6,500+ in refunds. This has encouraged me to look at pursuing complaints against the many other lenders I used, confident that I will similarly be offered settlements. Most will reject your intial complaint, but once you get the FOS involved, you would be amazed at how the settlement offers start to follow.
Yes I feel guilty and stupid for getting myself into that situation – but boy can it cheer you up when you get a substantial refund!
Laura says
Need some advice:
I’ve made three complaints to the ombudsman, Quick Quid, Lending Stream and Sunny.
QQ I’ve had about 20 loans, paying over £1500 in interest alone. Have £1000 oustanding which I pay in a DMP at £10. They’ve offer via the FOS to refund interest/charges on 4 of the loams, being £500 which leaves me £500 still to pay.
Lendnig Steam I had 17 loans and no idea what the totals were as their statements are confusing. Probably the same as Quick Quid. I’ve got £90 outstanding on this, again £10 per month in a DMP. They’ve offered to write of the £90 and refund charges on 3 loans equating to about £170.
I’ve rejected both these offers and I feel that they’re fobbing me off and hoping I’ll go quietly. The fact they’ve admitted liability for at least some of the loans shows me there must be at least a small bit of case to answer. I’ve asked my adjudicator to give my compalints a full review.
This has taken 6 weeks from my intial complaint to FOS so I know I’m in it for the long haul but I just wanted assurances that I’ve done the right thing!
Thanks
Laura
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Neither offer sounds good so it’s sounds as though you have done the sensible thing.
I think you do need to get the figures together for your Lending Stream borrowing. Work from your bank statements to see what you borrowed and what you have repaid.
MR says
Hi Laura – stick with it. All of these lenders will do everything to delay your complaint or try to fob you off. Payday loans are solely for short-term purposes. Repeated loans and/or failing to carry out proper checks regularly to assess your expenditure or credit check that would otherwise reveal other payday loans with other lenders all fall foul of the Regulations. Virtually every payday lender has previously failed to adhere to any of these requirements. Quite the opposite, they actively encouraged roll-overs of loans, or taking out new loans. They were solely intent on getting as much return as they could, for as long as they could.
The FOS are fantastic at resolving complaints. Even if you don’t have all of your loan details, or access to past bank statements, they have the power to obtain all of the relevant facts (including obtaining copies of all of your bank statements over the relevant period) FREE of charge.
Normally you have to first complain to the lender, giving them 8wks to respond. However, you can involve the FOS at the outset and they will obtain all of the relevant details and contact the lender on your behalf. As soon as the FOS become involved, it is amazing how lenders will suddenly change their tune! Some are quicker than others in offering a settlement, but most will eventually have no option but to reach a settlement with you.
And don’t worry about rejecting their initial offers. Many lenders will still try it on and attempt to get you to accept their first offer (relying on your financial need to get the settlement money quickly, or hoping you will give up and accept their first offer). If the adjudicator makes a recommendation in your favour, many lenders will either comply with the recommendation, try to undercut the adjudicator’s recommendation, or failing which, it will then be passed to an Ombudsman for a final decision. It would be unusual for an Ombudsman to reach a different conclusion as the adjudicator.
Rachel says
Anyone thinking about claiming go for it, I have recieved £10k back over the year and have paid off debts in the past few months my credit score has improved and now I’m saving for a house. A total life changer thank you Sara
MR says
Just some words of encouragement for anyone seeking a refund of any payday loans or past interest paid. After being offered £380 by Quick Quid, I took my complaint to the FOS. Within 2wks, Quick Quid upped their offer to £3,200. I then went after Wonga.com for past payday loans. They initially rejected my complaint outright, so I referred it to the FOS. Took a bit longer, but Wonga then offered £3,300 in settlement. As the adjudicator’s recommendation would result in a potential settlement of up to £5,500, I have counter-offered £4,500 to settle quickly, failing which I will take my chances on letting it proceed to an Ombudsman for review.
Amazing how these lenders try to thwart any complaint you make and try to put you off along the way, but ultimately do a 180 degree turnaround once you refer it to the FOS. Originally, I was reluctant about bothering at all. I was even on a high income, but still these lenders failed to carry out proper affordability checks, or recognise that I was using payday loans not for short-term borrowing (as they are intended)., but for long-term credit. Now already at least £6,500 up just by making the effort and taking the time to collate all of the loan details to complain about these 2 lenders alone. Still have potential complaints to make against Payday Loans, Payday Express, the Money Shop and Lending Stream.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by pursuing a complaint. The FOS are fantastic at getting a resolution and couldn’t be more helpful. Stick with it and good luck!
Debbie says
Dear Sara can you please advise your thoughts on my decision from my jar Our conclusion
After investigating the facts, we believe we have acted fairly and responsibly and in line with the OFT ILG regulation at that time. We made our borrowing decisions based on all the information available to us, and trusted the details that you provided to us each time you requested a new loan to be true and accurate.
However, we have also considered that you paid late on several occasions and we could have done more to assess why this was.
Decision
In light of the above, it is our view that your complaint should be partially upheld. To put things right, we are willing to refund the interest and charges you have paid on your last nine loans, amounting to £582.80. As your last loan remains outstanding, £170 will be deducted from the refundable amount. This is the principal amount you borrowed £300, minus the £130 you have paid to this date. This brings the refund amount to £412.80.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How many loans did you have from Myjar?
Debbie says
They say I had 15 but they are only looking at 8 of them.
I’m not sure whether to accept or not. They say they do not need to pay 8% interest and if I went to ombudsman they would not automatically add it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The first 7 loans they are offering to refund on – were there a lot smaller? Or were there large gaps between the loans?
If you go to the ombudsman, you may get offered a refund on more of the loans – from loan 4 say rather than loan 8. And 8% interest is added in almost all cases! How long ago were these loans?
BAS says
I am looking to start a complaints procedure but all this information baffles me:
I currently have:
6 open loans and 4 complete with lending stream.
2 open with Mr Lender
1 with quick quid that has defaulted so paying charges for late payment.
4 with Swift sterling ( which I understand I can’t claim for)
Is there anyone that can advise me on what to do next I’m 27 and my debt is taking the majority my wage each month and I’m constantly finding myself borrowing money to survive. Please If anyone can help me I would be greatful
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi BAS,
the first and most important thing for you to do is to get your current finances into a stable situation so you do not need to take out any more payday loans. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/help-payday-loan/ for how to do this and why you have to do this first.
Then after that you can look at putting in affordability complaints – and hopefully getting money back to reduce a lot of your debt! But you can’t do this whilst you are still borrowing.
Tom says
Help please!
Quick quid have offered me £400.. I’ve paid them around £6000 in interest over the years. If should I go to the ombudsman will I then lose the £400 offer? I’m worried I will end up with nothing. Thoughts people?
MR says
Hi Tom – I was in a similar position. QQ offered me a £380 settlement after I complained to them – which I rejected and referred my complaint to the FOS. Within 2 weeks (even before the adjudicator had a chance to make any final recommendation), QQ offered £2,900 + £300 compensation for the way they had handled my complaint (total £3,200). What a turnaround! To QQ’s credit, once I accepted their offer, I just had to confirm my current bank details to them and the money was in my account within the followimg week. As Sara replied, £400 is probably on the higher side of QQ’s normal first offers, so I wouldn’t hesitate to reject their current offer and go straight to the FOS. If I was a betting man, I would almost guarantee that you will end up with a substantially higher settlement.
Tom says
Thanks!
I’ve rejected their complaint and gone to FOS
fingers crossed!
MR says
Hi Tom – Great you have taken a leap of faith and gone to FOS. I am sure you will not regret it and come away with a much higher settlement. Keep us all posted on how you eventually get on. Good luck!
Lin says
Just wanted to give an update :- complained to sunny, my jar, payday uk, uncle buck, lending stream, peachy on 11 November so far
Peachy – response within 3 days all o/s debt written off £297.57
Lending stream – response within 2 weeks all o/s debt written off £350
Sunny – 5 weeks £899 written off and £438 refund waiting
My jar – rejected but offered to write off £300 so leaves me amount borrowed o/s £500
Payday uk – rejected no offer
Uncle buck- still waiting
So happy most of my debt written off and thanks to everyone for comments and encouragement especially Sara my Christmas is saved !!
MR says
Hi Sara – have you come across a situation where Wonga has unilaterally removed all Wonga loans from someone’s credit history – without any complaint being involved whatsoever and without any knowledge of the debtor? I happened to have a 2014 Experian credit report showing almost 60 Wonga.com payday loan entries and a more recent Experian credit report where the Wonga.com entries have all totally disappeared!
I was wondering if this might have been done by Experian as a new approach to recording payday loans, or by Wonga off its own back after a general overhaul of its payday lending practices, or more cynically, perhaps an attempt by Wonga to remove traces of all credit records that might evidence unaffordable or irresponsible lending?
I would be interested in your views. Thanks.
Neil says
Look for entries made from “QuickBridge” (an old trading name of Wonga). I had exactly this situation and had to piece together my loan history from two credit reports and bank statements.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Rebecca, who asked here a few days ago how long it took to get a payout, reported yesterday she had received over £9000 from QuickQuid : https://debtcamel.co.uk/quickquid-payday-loan-refunds/comment-page-2/#comment-214558 !!
trr says
Has anyone had any success with On Stride?
I got accepted for a loan despite defaults and loads of payday loans (was surprised!)
I fell into difficulty and approached them, they gave reduced payments for a bit etc. What I don’t recall them telling me was that what they were doing was actually increasing my debt. I have paid in total £2500 in 15 payments on a £3000 loan but still I actually owe more than £3000 still! I have submitted a complaint about irresponsible lending and failing in duty to help with financial difficulty, they really have left me trapped in debt. Has anyone had any success in getting an interest refund from them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What were the monthly repayments on this loan? What was the interest rate?
They are part of the same group as QuickQuid and Pounds to Pocket, so you probably won’t get a reasonable offer and should expect this complaint to go to the Ombudsman.
trr says
£185pm and 85%
I was stunned to see I owe £3009 when I borrowed £3000 and have paid them £2500 so far.
Seems like they really took advantage when I was in difficulty and used it to get my balance back up to more than I originally borrowed. I thought they were helping me out :(
Scott says
HI Sara and all.
Amazing page and group of people leaving comments. Its a relief to see so many people that have been through the same living hell as me. I may have ignited the fire but PDL providers poured on the petrol.
I lived off PDLs from the start of 2010 until summer 2014 when my family bailed me out once and for all.
Prior to this I was stupid and got my self into debt with barclays, m+s and bank of Scotland wich resulted in 5 defaults and and after a failed DMP, insolvency. And I have been homeless twice.
I have been suffering with depression on and off for 7 years, I have been to the doctor with stress and I have attempted suicide twice.
I fell into a spiral of borrowing to repay the lenders and failed to enjoy and live life and take career opportunities that came my way. I was to worried about changing the date or amount I got paid so decided to stay where I was.
Although in 2014 I got clear of the PDLs and repaid my family their dues I never got out of my £2000 overdraft with santander. After another bout of depression in summer 2016 my partner kicked me out our rented house. I have a son with her.
Currently I live my with step dad and have managed to get my act together. I closed my santander account and have managed for the first time in my adult life to be completely debt free and save money. At the age of 28 I am starting again. I am currently at risk of redundancy at work, ironically though over the years I have been dedicated to work and worked every minute I could to try pay off debts and its ended up with me in a really good position going into the consultation period for the pay offs.
My goal now is to add a wee bit more to my savings and funnily enough jump right back into debt by buying my 1st house. I need to do this not for me but for my son so i can be in his life and have some where warm and safe for him so he can stay with me now and again.
My PDL hell:
It started with Wonga and for that 4 and a half years I constantly had a loan out of them every month I either took out a new loan with them, topped up or made a deferral payment. Requested SOA still waiting.
Next came Pduk in summer 2010 and for 4 years I also had constant loans with them. Requested SOA still waiting.
Final of my big 3 is quickquid which I first borrowed from them at the start of 2011 and the same again I also was made and received payments from them every month until summer 2014. I also had a 6 month flexiloan. My 3rd loan with them in april 2011 was £1100 and I paid £1450 a month later to clear it. received my SOA and I borrowed £8250 and paid back £13750(ish).
I also had:
18 month loan with pounds 2 pockets – borrowed 1150 repaid 2300
Cfo lending, MyJar, WDA, payday express and 24/MB all loaned me between 300 and 700 over 1 to 7 loans.
Lending stream 1 off loan which I will not peruse.
I am currently collecting my evidence.
My bank statements show I was repaying multiple payday lenders every month plus paying old debts (£300 a month). It also shows my outgoings for rent bills food and fuel as been aprox £1500 a month. My income varied from £2000 to £3000 a month depending on shift work and overtime.
My credit file from end of 2015 shows that I had 5 previous defaults from bank loans and credit cards. Was declared solvent/bankrupt and discharged in 2011. All visible when I was living on PDLs It also shows over 70 payday loan records but less than 35 searches.
Once I have my evidence in order and receive all the SOAs I will verify they match my bank statements and make sure there is nothing a miss.
I also repaid loans to each of the big 3 at least once using a DMP via step change. Just waiting on facts and figures from them.
I feel I have an extremely strong case but may be let down by the fact that I was declared insolvent in 2009 (although I was discharged in 2011 and had repaid all debts related to this in full by 2012) or that my left over income after bills was between £500 and £1500. I was wondering what everyones opinion would be on this?
my bank statements show that everymonth from from 2011 I lived in my overdraft and often went over it resulting in bank charges.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Scott, you went bankrupt in 2010? You can’t claim refunds for any loan taken out before this or whilst you were undischarged – any refunds for these period would go to the Official Receiver, not to you. And also you should not have borrowed more than £500 whilst you were undischarged without breaking the terms of your bankruptcy.
But you can put in complaints for any loans taken out after your discharge. Having gone bankrupt before will not harm your complaints for loans taken out after discharge – having bankruptcy on your credit record should have been a huge warning to a payday lender that if you were repeatedly borrowing you may be getting into trouble again.
Scott says
HI Sara. I made a slight mistake. I went bankrupt in Jan 2009 and was discharged a year after. Not 2011. My very 1st payday loan was the same month of my discharge but was for £200.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Phew – in that case you can claim for the lot :)
Good luck and let us know how you get on! Getting money back could really help with getting a larger deposit for your mortgage.
MR says
Hi Scott – Sara has alteady given you some very positive advice on the debt refund points you raised (isn’t she brilliant!). I just wanted to respond to you and give you some words of support. Financial problems can have a huge impact on depression and stress, so often exacerbated by crippling payday loans that spiral out of control and serve to cripple you yet further. I myself have never felt so anxious and depressed as when I felt consumed by money worries. Once in that state of depression, it is even harder to rationalise and deal with the ever-increasing debts and problems that they create, as well as life itself.
Little attention is given to the emotional and psychological effects that come hand in hand with debt. It can become impossible to rationally address everything around you. You did the absolute right thing by going to your doctor and getting on the right anti-depressants. I was a high earning professional, yet got into the same position and could see little way out. You will be well aware of how such depression progresses in stages from thinking about it, dismissing it, to planning it, not fearing it, the initial consideration for the consequences to family and friends diminish and worst case, acting on it. Like you, once properly medicated, I eventually returned to a sense of normality and was then able to address the issues of the past. Your positive actions are now evidence of your recovery and true personality to succeed in your life. Never give up and recognise when you need medical support in the future.
Some 2 years later, I was also able to start dealing with the payday loan nightmares of the past. From fearing to even read emails and debt letters, to actively dealing with them. Already £3,200 up from a settlement with QQ, a recent offer of £3,300 from Wonga (that I rejected and expect £5,500+), with new complaints raised against Payday UK, Payday Express and others. One lender at at time. The money is not the issue (although it really does contribute to your well-being!).
Good luck to you and always know that you that you are not alone.
Scott says
HI Mr.
Thanks for your kind words.
I fully intend to pass all my findings on to the FCA including my medical background.
To most when the word debt is mentioned it is related to irresponsibility and most will say its your own fault and have little sympathy.
However the word debt to me now means so much more. It represents loneliness, stress, depression and sadly a very dark/shameful place in society.
I personally feel that more needs to be done to raise awareness to the emotional damage caused by debt and that the biggest obstacle to solving debt issues is over coming the fear and isolation. Once you do that and manage to ask for help the repairs can begin.
Regards
Scott
Kg says
Just had my second response which was for lending stream…complaint not upheld primarily due to the fact it was an installment loan (over 6 months) and not a payday loan as such. A little annoyed but not much to argue with.
Also payday uk have rejected adjuticators decision which upheld my complaint and refund of all loans. Not quite sure if they provided new information or they just delaying.we will see.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this LS decision from them or from the FOS? people certainly have one installment loan cases – you have to be able to prove you can’t afford the monthl repayment, not the amount borrowed.
You can ask your adjudicator if PDUK provided any more information.
Kg says
The LS decision was from FOS. yes they advised that it appeared i could afford afford it judging by the amount of income and expenditure i had stated. She has advised this over the phone so i said email me the response to my questions and il come back to you. My income was £250 a week ( on a temporary contract but full time) and my expenditure that i inserted varied between 80 and 350( a month). Considering my weekly repayments were about about £20 i didnt really have much more else to say especially since FOS had my bank statements. I will double check and see if there is anything else on my bank statements but as they say unless you have further information then decisions dont tend to change.
I have asked adjuticator about payday uk as again this was mentioned over the phone (she got the email as we were discussing LS. ) . She advised she will summarise and let me know by tomorrow if possible as she will be off on holiday.
I think it will be delayed by another month and i’ve advised her that with this money i am looking to clear my credit cards. And delay is costing me interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, good idea to double check your bank statements – if you are borrowing more each month (getting more overdrawn? Other loans?) then your “expenses” list isn’t complete, you have missed something off.
Kg says
Good shout about overdraft. You see thats just it…i was always in my overdraft as far as i can remember….im pretty sure its unreasonable to expect someone clearly strugggling to reduce the overdraft and being consistently overdrawn to borrow further. I was in an arrangement with wonga at that point paying £20 every 2 weeks. I did also take out a moneyshop loan after lending stream. I did tell her that i will decide what to do after she emails me. Only problem is im off on holiday for 3 weeks so wont be able to respond.
Mat says
Hi Sara,
Just wanted to ask some advice.
The FOS recently found in my favour in relation to PDEX for around £3k. Decision came through last week and business has until 3rd Jan to respond. If they disagree or don’t get in contact, we both have a further 2 weeks to provide more information. Then it goes into a queue for the ombudsman where I’ve been advised it can take another 2-3 months on current waiting times just to be allocated and another 2-4 weeks for a final decision based on others’ experience, plus 28 days for eventual payout.
I started the initial complaint in March so this has already been 9 months coming, notwithstanding an extra 4-5 months if they, as anticipated, disagree with the Decision. On the one hand, this is money I would never have thought I’d ever see again so I certainly can’t complain. On the other, even half the amount would be more helpful right now than double in 5 months due to dropping hours at work.
Is it worth me sending a friendly follow up directly to PDEX requesting a status update, or do you think this could work against me with any final ombudsman decision? I don’t want to undermine or circumvent the process in any way that might damage my case, but I also understand that some people have been made partial offers after a FOS Decision, and perhaps reminding them I exist could spur them into action.
Thanks for any advice x
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s the week before Xmas. If the adjudicator’s decision came out end last week, it is unlikely to have been looked at yet. These firms havea lot of cases at varying stages – if the adjudicator’s letter isn’t enough to spur them into action, I doubt a call from you will.
I doubt there is much chance of getting any money before January whatever you do.
Claire says
Not sure if I should accept this offer from Mr Lender.
Have had 4 loans from them. Have had £4,300 and repaid £5,507 in total. Currently have an outstanding balance of £1,200 (or thereabouts) which is the last loan I had with them for £1,000 but haven’t made any payments on this. They are requesting to not go through the Ombudsman and to write off this loan. Should I accept this?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have paid about £1,200 in interest. They are offering to write off the last loan, where you haven’t repaid any of the principal of £1000. Are they offering to delete the details of the last loan from your credit file?
The most you would get from the Ombudsman is a write off plus a refund of a few hundred (£1,200 plus 8% less £1,000).
It’s your decision of course. The offer sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Louise says
Well my journey is almost at an end now!
Waiting on quick quid to deposit redress into account, I sent my form back a week ago.
All of my complaints have eventually been upheld.
Results are;
Offer from sunny -398 REFUND no FOS
Mr lender 81.47 back REFUND NO FOS INVOLVEMENT
Ferratum – WRITTEN OFF NO FOS INVOLVEMENT
My jar (txt loan) – REFUND NO FOS INVOLVEMENT
Next credit – REFUND NO FOS INVOLVEMENT
Monkeydosh – waiting due 3rd may WRITTEN OFF NO FOS INVOLVEMENT
CFO – WRITTEN OFF NO FOS INVOLVEMENT
Wage day advance – refund OMBUDSMAN DECISION
Wonga – refund ADJUDICATOR DECISION
24/7 moneybox – refund OMBUDSMAN DECISION
Payday uk – refund ADJUDICATOR DECISION
Quick quid – refund OMBUDSMAN DECISION yet to find out how much but in region of 2k
It has been a very long year, and quick quid has taken the longest! The worst to deal with were 24/7 by far!!
Thank you Sara and everyone on here for advice. I would say to anyone stick with it, be patient. It’s worth it! I think I will have had in total approx 4-5k back in refunds.
Good luck to everyone still waiting and those who have just started on this journey.
Kelly says
Hi Louise,
Thank you for updating on your outcomes. Can I ask re: Wonga
I’m in a similar position, the adjudicator has ruled in my favour and given them until the new year to reply.
Could you please give me an idea on the timescales after the adjudicator provided their findings/final response to when you received a refund directly from wonga?
Did you need to contact wonga directly at any point?
Jim says
I have had problems with payday loans since 2011. Often robbing Peter to pay Paul just to make ends meet. I have nearly got myself out of this mess by organising repayment plans with all lenders. Now after reading this forum I have sent off unaffordable loan emails to all payday loan companies involved. I had a great response from Mr.Lender (sent email on Sunday night and had a reply by Monday at 11am!!) who although they didn’t admit they had irresponsibly borrowed, said they would write off my current £1,050 balance and clear my account. I am over the moon with this one, I couldn’t believe they responded so quick!
I am still waiting to hear back from Wonga, Quickquid, PaydayUK, Unclebuck, Myjar, Sunny, Pounds to Pocket. I sent all emails on 28/11/2016. I am hoping that I get refunds from Wonga and Payday UK who I have used since 2011 often borrowing £600-1000 a time.
I have had rejection emails from Peachy (just 1 loan) and Satsuma (3 larger loans).
Satsuma have said that according to their credit checks I had no payday loans 6 months prior to lending from them. However I had multiple and I was on repayment plans with 4 lenders up until a month before this. I have explained this in an email and asked for a response.
Do you think I should wait for their response or go to the financial ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good to have had 1 prompt and positive response!
As Satsuma seem to have made a factual error, I suggest waiting a few days to see if they reply. You could send them a copy of your Noddle credit record.
Good luck with the rest!
Tom says
I’ve started to get a few final responses through allowing me to go to the ombudsman, do you think they look at you less favourably if you have a few complaints in at once? I have one for example that’s more important than the others should I get that one in first or does it really not matter?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they are all reasonable complaints, it doesn’t matter how many there are or if some are smaller than the others.
If you have a lot of complaint where there were only a couple of loans, not rolled over and not very large, then it may not be worth taking these to the FO at all unless there is something unusual about your case – you have 6 months from the Final Response so, perhaps put the weaker ones in a pile and think about them in a few months?
Neil says
This is good advice thanks.
I have several complaints in for shall we say the “bigger hitters” with FOS of which some have already been partially upheld.
I complained to all 23 lenders even the ones I only had one loan off and to be fair some of these have actually refunded half the interest which I accepted as I felt they were “weak cases”. Several of the others have said to get lost but I am considering keeping them until the bigger ones are dealt with by FOS and then maybe putting them in even if it just to get the lenders charged the £550 fee!
My best result without the FOS has been with 247 Moneybox who I estimated had had just under £2K off me in interest & charges… They wrote off an outstanding balance of £650, removed the default and gave me a payment of £500 which I took as 4 weeks before Xmas the £500 came in damned handy!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well see how the bigger ones go. By putting in weak, 1 loan complaints you are getting the lenders charged a fee, but you are also clogging up the system making it slower for people with better cases. And if a lot of people do this, it will let the lenders say that 80% of complaints are turned down at the FOS… which probably isn’t what you want…
Neil says
Fair point & I’ll take that on board in fairness to everyone else who has been caused misery by these sharks….
With that in mind I’d now say, try them all but asses your chances of winning each individual case yourself once the lender has turned it down, if you genuinely believe it’s unwinnable it most probably will be dismissed by the FOS so don’t bother.
Mike says
QQ phoned me up this morning and asked for my bank details which I gave to them and they transferred me what I was owed (according to adjudicators decision) within the hour!
I was originally offered £200 and sent you their response and you advised that it should be worth more than that and I should go to the Ombudsman. So I went and not long after the adjudicator responded in my favour with a much higher amount which I accepted as I didn’t want it dragged out.
Mike says
on the very same day I got paid by QQ I had the following from Wonga:
[standard stuff]
The information you have provided in your complaint relating to your income does not match our records of the information you provided to us at the time of the application. In your application you state your income to be £1,400 and then £1,200 a month but your complaint indicates that your monthly income was £1,000.
We are entitled to rely on the information you provide in your applications in order to make a decision regarding affordability and our review of your complaint is dependent on the information known to us at the time of application.
[standard stuff]
Outcome
Having looked in detail at your complaint and the information we had access to when we made our lending decisions, we have not found any indication that your loans were unaffordable. On that basis, we are unable to uphold your complaint.
Off to the Ombudsman it is then! :) I kinda like it when they play hard ball haha
Michelle says
Good Afternoon
Finally had a response back from Wonga after a 7 week wait. I felt with 50 loans including various top ups over £40k borrowed and over £50k paid back plus nearly 75% of these loans were taken on the same day or within 7 days of the previous been paid I would stand a chance with them looking at my complaint. Just received a flat no we do not uphold your complaint at all – FOS to proceed now
On other complaints
247moneybox settled with no fos full interest
Different money settled no fos part interest plus 8%
Cash genie I will get money when they do
Ferratum – very quick and settled no fos
Peachy – adjudicator ruled in my favour peachy sent to ombudsman
Mr lender offered money but approx £4K short of all interest so with adjudicator
Wageday told me to go away but in fairness quickly so with fos
Satsuma – no response but nearing 8 weeks
Sunny – no response but nearing 8 weeks
Moneyboat – do e mail me to tell me no update close to 8 weeks
Piggybank – no update
Uncle buck no update
Payday uk no update
Next credit no update
Mini credit – dead in the water
Will be better after new year as my adjudicator is back on 3rd Jan so he can crack on then with any cases over 8 weeks and no response
Tom says
All interest + 8% being refunded by Next credit today. PDLs – They said that as I had been constantly rolling over they should have checked more and so upheld my complaint.
It is one of my smaller ones but still got £495 back. Money in my account already. Delighted, didn’t even need to go to ombudsman.
One down many more to go!
Ross says
Absolutely thrilled to just receive an email from my adjudicator upholding my complaint against PDUK. He has made particular reference to constant ‘rollovers’ and the fact the size of the loans increased over time, which should have set alarm bells ringing there end. I calculate the amount to be just over £2k to be repaid, with the 8% interest. I’m not sure if it’s standard, but this adjudicator has now upheld 2 of my complaints and what he says to the business is that it’s highly unlikely that the Ombudsman would disagree with his decision. Satsuma conceded after his previous decision, so I am hopeful that Pay Day UK may go the same way, but I do know how obstinate they can be just from their rejection letters, so I’m not going to hold my breath. I can see this one dragging out in all honesty.
N says
So today I got my first response from one of my PDL Mr lender
They have offered me £550 as a goodwill gesture on the two of 7 loans that I rolled over, also stating I had a large expendable income etc and little outgoings, they seemed to miss the point I had 2 or 3 other large pdls at the same time, and had just come off a 33 loan streak with Wonga, yes I paid them all off in time, because if I didn’t then I wouldn’t be able to borrow from the a few days to pay the others with, anyhow I’m pretty sad that was the best offer they could do so I will put it to the FOS tommorow and see what they say, I paid them back 7.5k in total so imagine around 2k interest I paid back. I’ll see what they say tommorow.
One question they say the offer runs out in Jan 18th if I put it to the FOS then I guess that offer is off the table and I could get nothing?
N
Michelle says
Hi N
I had the same concerns but a few people have said they have never seen the FOS offer less than a company has offered so I wouldn’t worry. I have a few cases with FOS and adjudicator is off until 3rd Jan so worth raising complaint online then spend next 2 weeks getting copies of your credit file, loan statement from Mr lender and bank statements for that period of loans. That way you are ahead of the game when the FOS can look at it and it will be quicker.
Probably worth looking at your statement of account as mr lender will provide and this will show the interest you have paid so you can then decide if it’s worth going to FOS.
Think my first complaint took 3-4 week for FOS to reach a decision.
Good luck
Zara says
Hi Sara,
I recently submitted my affordability complaint to 247 moneybox around end of November 2016. They responded with their final response which I received end of October 2016:
We are, however, happy as a gesture of goodwill to resolve by writing off the balance and removing any defaults registered)
I responded with the following: Further to your response I am writing to inform you that I shall now be forwarding my complaint with your final response to the ombudsman to review. (Which I have not yet submitted the complaint yet to the FOS)
The reason I replied as I did is because they offered to write off the balance before I formally submitted my complaint, however
Yesterday they sent a further e-mail saying:
Thanks for your email. Further to our final response, we are happy to action your request. Please confirm this acts as a resolution in full to your complaint without further escalation. Should you continue to pursue the complaint we will use your acknowledgment here that the complaint has been resolved.
Do I respond suggesting: I would like them to
– a refund of all interest and charges paid plus statutory interest of 8%
– deduct the last loan amount owing from refund of all interest, charges plus statuatory interest of 8% for all loans
– remove any defaults and the record of my loans to be removed from my credit file.
Do I now submit my complaint raised with them to FOS & inform 247 ?
———————————————-
I had 7 loans from 247 moneybox excluding the last loan I took from them (loan amount of £249.00 taken from them on 30/06/16)
List of loans:
1. £80 loan Interest charged- £24.96
2. £130 loan Interest charged-£26.00
3. £175 loan Interest charged – £46.20
4. £200 loan. Interest charged – £49.60
5. £218 loan Interest charged – £95.04
6. £125 loan Interest charged – £29.00
7. £286 loan Interest charged – £70.99
8. £249 loan -failed to pay and defaulted (final loan taken from 247 and no payment made up to now)
Total borrowed – £1214 excl last loan amount. Total Interest & charges paid. £341.79 Borrowing over last 1.5 years
8% simple interest – £145.68 + £341.79
Total refund – £487.47 less unpaid principle amount(last loan) £249.00
Leaving me with a refund of £238.47
I wrote to them on 06/09/16 asking them to put a repayment plan in place. They responded with the offer of as a gesture of goodwill to resolve by writing off the balance and removing any defaults registered
They did not provide all statements of account.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
8% simple interest is only charge on the interest you paid, so it would only be about £25 probably. So the maximum you could get back would be about £120. And if the Ombudsman decided only to giver a refund from the fourth loan, you wouldn’t get a refund at all.
I think this is a good offer from the Moneybox 247, it’s your decision but is it worth the hassle of going to the Ombudsman for so little?
pauline says
Further to my email below originally posted on 3rd Nov – i have finally heard back from Wonga after complaining about a data protection breach. They have offered me £50 compensation but have said they still won’t write off my debt. I only have a few days to reply to them – should i accept this offer or take it further?
Original email – Another query from me this evening. I contacted Wonga in February asking for statements of my account and asking for my account to be written off. I am on a DMP with them and paying a small amount each month to them. They since emailed me the statements of someone else’s account which contained all their confidential information rather than mine and also declined my request to write off the account and instead said they will accept a payment of 1 pound a month! It will take around 40 years to pay off – i probably won’t even be alive then!! Should I now take this to the FO or email back an email of complaint about the incorrect statements and that i will live long enough to pay off the debt 1 pound a month?! thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
£50 for the data breach sounds ok. Your defaulted loan, how much did you borrow? How much do you now owe? Had you borrowed from Wonga before, if so how often and how recently?
pauline says
it was £500 which i kept paying back in full each month, only to take back out again as i couldn’t afford the £500 loss. It was the same circle each month for about a year. Finally i stopped and added them to a DMP as i was just going around in circles never to get out. This was about a year ago i entered into the DMP. I have about £400 still owing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, that sounds like a classic “Wonga should have realised after a few months that the loans were unaffordable” situation.
You could go back and explain this in more detail – but it sounds as though they aren’t going to change their mind so this will need to go to the FO.
In which case, you can either replay saying you are taking the case to the FO, or say that you are prepared to accept the £50 compensation for the data breach BUT not in settlement of your affordability complaint which you will be taking to the Ombudsman.
martin says
thought just give update on mine and through reading replys here find that all companies seem to be different to each people
Wonga -£600 they offered -agreed to
Lending stream -no offers went to ombudsman has agreed with me awaiting payment
WDA- adju agree with my comlpaint awaiting reply from wda
Payday uk – offered £670 agreed to as though this was my smallest used company
Payday express – at adjudicator
Quick quid – they offered £450, declined as they were my most used company off to ombudsman
minicredit – no luck at all anyone know away to get at this company please let me know
Swift Sterling – awaiting there reply
Its been long time started in feburary but finally get results at moment in my favour
Also question am I right to be confident of ombudsman finding in my favour on quick quid as offer very poor
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Thanks for the update – £450 is actually one of QQ’s larger offers – so you probably have a VERY good case!