The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) gives you the right to be sent a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of your account for most loans, credit cards, catalogues, store cards and Hire Purchase agreements.
CCA agreements are important! If a creditor can’t find it then:
- you can’t get a CCJ for the debt; and
- you may decide to stop paying the debt.
But the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to:
- debts where there already is a CCJ;
- overdrafts,
- many household bills or tax debts;
- pre 2008 loans for more than £25,000;
- mortgages.
Sometimes asking for a CCA agreement is a good idea, but not always.
It shouldn’t normally be your first thought if you are having trouble paying a debt to the lender.
Asking for the CCA normally only works if your debt has been sold to a debt purchaser – unless the debt is very old.
Contents
How to ask for your CCA agreement
There is a template letter to ask for your credit agreement in this National Debtline factsheet. That factsheet also has a lot of information about CCA agreements and if you have any problems with one, talk to National Debtline.
This is not the same as templates asking for a copy of your personal information or making a Subject Access Request. If you want to find out if the debt is enforceable, use the specific CCA agreement wording.
Some points to be careful about:
- ask the current creditor for the CCA agreement, not the original creditor;
- you have to send a cheque or a postal order for £1;
- send the letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it and the postage receipt.
Also read the rest of this article first! You need to know what you will do if the lender sends you the agreement and what if the lender doesn’t.
What happens if they don’t send the CCA agreement?
If you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
If the creditor can’t easily find the CCA agreement they may send you an acknowledgement of your request. Something like the following is typical:
we acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information but as we have to request the details from the original lender we anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request.
A 40 day period is often mentioned but doesn’t have any legal standing.
It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.
I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them.
“Legal but not enforceable”
The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.
The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.
When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment. Here is what I suggested to a reader who was getting letters that left off this important fact: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”
Here are some more implications of the debt being legal but not enforceable:
- if you claim a PPI refund, this may be set off against the balance you still owe.
- the debt can still be sold to another debt collector. Make sure you keep all the CCA agreement letters or emails so you can just tell the new creditor you asked for the CCA agreement on dd/mm/yy and you won’t be paying anything to the debt until it is produced.
- you may be able to leave the debt out of an application for a Debt Relief Order so it won’t count towards the maximum debt limit. Talk to your DRO adviser about this.
- See below for the effect on your credit record.
“So I can just stop paying?”
If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.
But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months.
If the debt is in a DMP you will have to tell the DMP firm to stop paying it. Dent them the letter from the creditor saying they can’t locate the agreement.
You may find the idea of not paying scary. If you do, talk to National Debtline about this debt and the rest of your financial situation. It does help, being able to talk to a friendly expert!
I would allow the debt collector two or three months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found it in the first few months the chances of it turning up later are very low.
“The creditor hasn’t said it is unenforceable”
Occasionally a creditor will tell you they cant produce it but you are still legally liable for the debt which is true, but irrelevant – if they cannot produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court.
Sometimes the creditor goes into a lot of detail about how you have been paying so the debt isn’t statute barred. Also true but again irrelevant. You weren’t suggesting the debt was statute barred.
In this sort of situation, tell the creditor that you are not disputing whether you are liable for the debt or whether it is statute barred, but you would like the creditor to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have produced the CCA.
If the creditor persists with this, make a complaint and then send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Here is the story of a case involving an old HSBC debt, where HSBC had to pay compensation for not admitting the debt was unenforceable.
“What about my credit record?”
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? Check all three credit reference agencies to make sure.
If it isn’t on there, then it will never reappear, whether you pay it in full, in part or just stop paying.
A debt marked as defaulted will drop off 6 years after the default date:
- it will not drop off sooner because the CCA cannot be found;
- the balance will not normally be set to zero because the CCA cannot be found.
When the debt does not have a default date, if you stop paying now, a default will be added and it will then drop off in 6 years. Not good news! Read What should the default date be? and ask the original creditor to add a default date back years ago.
A default will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. And you shouldn’t want that to happen – it would mean the record would stay on your file for even if you stop paying.
The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it.
“Should I offer a low settlement amount?”
Some people decide to offer a low settlement amount. I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t need to do this! Not paying them anything is a perfectly good response in most cases! It is VERY VERY rare for a debt to turn up later.
A lot of creditors simply reject the low offer, even though you think it is sensible. They know that if they refuse you may decide to give them more. You cannot make a debt collector accept this low offer or complain they are being unfair if they don’t.
If you really want to make a settlement offer, stop paying them for a few months and then make the offer. That shows they can choose between your low offer and nothing.
The only time when you should try to get the debt settled is if it will still be showing on your credit record in a year or two when you want to apply for a mortgage. Then getting the debt marked as satisfied will help your mortgage chance a lot. But if the debt is no longer on your credit record or is dropping off soon, there is no need to do this.
What if they do send the CCA agreement?
How can you tell if it is right?
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
- your name and address when the account was opened;
- the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
- the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
- any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
It doesn’t have to have your signature on it. Indeed if you opened the account online you may well have signed it “digitally” and there is no document with your physical signature – this is perfectly legal.
If you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct, you can ask National Debtline about it or you could post about it on the Legal Beagles forum.
This may sound complicated but usually either the creditor admits they can’t find it or what they send you is fine.
What should you do when the CCA agreement is found?
This depends on why you were asking for the CCA agreement.
If the creditor has started a court case (you have been sent a Claim Form) then you may have hoped that the CCA agreement could not be found. But now you have it, that is not a possible defence so you need to think if you have another defence. Talk to National Debtline about your options.
If you were planning on making settlement offers to some debts and were hoping the lack of a CCA agreement could get this one settled very cheaply, that has been ruled out and you need to proceed with a more substantial offer.
If you are fed up with having to pay this old debt for many more years, look at your alternatives. If you just stop paying, you may get taken to court – especially as the creditor now has the CCA agreement ready to hand! If you have more luck with some other debts turning out to be unenforceable, can you now pay more to this one? Or is it time to look at insolvency or other options?
When should you ask for the CCA agreement – and when shouldn’t you?
A lot depends on your exact debts, who the original creditor was, who the debt collector is, and what your other options are for tackling them. So there isn’t a simple checklist here.
How old is the account and has it been sold?
The older an account is, the less likely it is that a CCA agreement will be found. It’s the age of the account that matters, not how old the debt problem is. You may have only defaulted on a catalogue account a couple of years old, but if it was opened in 2010 that’s well worth a try!
For a debt that is still with the original creditor, I wouldn’t bother asking for the CCA agreement unless the debt was VERY old or you are getting letters from solicitors about court action.
If a debt has been sold once it is less likely the current creditor can produce the CCA agreement. And this gets harder the more times the debt is sold on.
Court action and CCJs
If the creditor is seriously threatening court action, always ask for the CCA agreement. It is worth a try!
But when you already have a CCJ for a debt, it is too late to ask for the CCA agreement as the creditor doesn’t have to send it. If you have just found out about the CCJ you need to look at your options for “setting it aside“, not send a request for the CCA agreement.
Contacts about a very old debt you have heard nothing about for years?
If you haven’t been paying a debt for years and you aren’t being hassled by a creditor, you need a good reason to ask for the CCA agreement. It may be better to wait and see if you are contacted and then ask for the CCA.
But when you are contacted about a very old debt, asking for the CCA agreement is a very good idea. you should think first if the debt is statute barred, Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template you can send the creditor saying the debt is statute barred. This is simpler than asking for the CCA agreement.
But if the creditor comes back with a reason why it isn’t statute barred, then your next step should be to ask for the CCA agreement.
Hoping to settle debts with a windfall
If you have a windfall – an inheritance say – and you have a lot of debt in a DMP for several years so most of it is with debt collectors, asking for CCA agreements before you make offers is sensible. You don’t need to pay them anything if they cant produce the CCA.
Thinking about bankruptcy, a DRO or an IVA
Where insolvency (DRO, IVA or bankruptcy) looks necessary, it can be a waste of time asking for CCA agreements, unless not paying those debts would make the rest manageable.
Contacted about a debt which not yours
If a debt collector says you owe money but you don’t recognise the debt, you should send them a Prove It! letter saying you dispute the debt. Here the CCA is only part of the picture. You may get sent a copy of the CCA in answer to this – if the name and address on the agreement are yours and you did live at that property at that point, it is good evidence.
But keep focussed on the fact that what matters is proving who the borrower is.
Here is a case “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment” where a debt collector admitted the debt was unenforceable as the CCA couldn’t be found but wrongly still asked for payment.
Summary
In summary, asking for the CCA agreement is an uncertain process that can take months. If you have a lot of debts, make sure you are looking at the bigger picture, as well as thinking about the individual debts.
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
When to ask for a debt write off
dennis gardiner says
Sara can you please confirm that if the owner of the debt writes to you, reminding you of the amount of debt outstanding they are required to state the debt is Unenforceable somewhere in the body of the letter.Assuming this is correct what action should you take??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes unless this is a letter sent under the Consumer Credit Act which has a set format the creditor is not allowed to change.
dennis gardiner says
Many thanks Sara
David says
Hi Sara,
I recently gave a Credit Card company a request for a CCA and statements for a debt from 2004.
It’s currently in a DMP going back 10 years.
Broken down it contains the following.
They replied sending me A photo copy of the paper application form which I filled out . Stating T&C’s would have been on the back of the form I sent and further copy in with the first Credit card.
A Credit card agreement CC act 1974.
A set of ‘current’ T&C’s.
A reconstituted ‘Credit agreement regulated by the CC act 1974.’
They also quote the case law of CAREY VS HSBC from 2009 justifying the Reconstituted version of the CCA.
They also stated. As we have complied with our obligations under S78 we will not be entering in any further correspondence regarding the provision of copy agreements. Your agreement is enforceable and we will continue to treat it as such.
My question is is this acceptable? And how water tight it maybe and maybe your views in general of tackling reconstituted CCA’s.
Thank for you for all you work you do and thanks in advance for a reply.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above has a section How can you tell if it is right? that says places that can help you with this.
Amy says
Hi again Sara, my partner sent a follow up letter to TBI Financial as you suggested, after they advised they weren’t able to provide the CCA. They have since written to confirm that the debt is unenforceable – thank you!
My partner is now looking to now send CCA requests and £1 cheques to his other creditors however before he does – can I just check something on his behalf (just to be on the safe side)?
I came across a discussion on another forum regarding Debt Collection Agencies (DCA’s) and requesting a copy of the CCA – it was commented that you should never give a DCA a copy of your signature, and therefore should only print your name on any letters to a DCA (and for this reason, to also send the £1 payment via a postal order rather than a cheque). The reason given was that some DCAs have been known to make use of your signature to scan it so they can mock up a fake CCA. I just wondered what your thoughts are on this? Or is it very unlikely /not something to be concerned about?
Many thanks, Amy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
its pretty unlikely but if you are feeling nervous, why not?
Peter says
Hi Sara
Back in April 2023 Lowell purchased a old dept from idem allegedly the dept is in my name
The Dept (RBS) was opened in 2004 apparently last payment on this dept was May 2020
I have asked for a cca agreement for this dept and statements which they can’t provide to prove this dept is mine, they finally admitted this dept is unenforceable in November 2023
However they keep on phoning, emailing , txing and sending me letters asking for payment for this Dept,
As they have admitted the dept is unenforceable, can I go down the ombudsman route and make a complaint against them for the constant harassment for this old dept
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you told them clearly that you won’t be paying it?
How often are they contacting you about it?
Peter says
Yes I’ve told them on numerous occasions I won’t be paying anything towards this dept as they can’t find the credit agreement and it’s unenforceable, They say as the dept is in my name I’m liable to pay it and they will keep contacting me to pay it
They will contact me everyday unless they are investigating the dept which they will put on hold for 30 days while they investigate it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You sais “apparently the last payment on this debt was May 2020” – do you not agree that was your last payments? When might the previos one have been?
What is your current financial situation like ? I am not suggesting you should pay this old debt, but you have different arguments to make if you are currently struggling with money.
Have all the communicition mentioned that the debt is unenforceable?
Peter says
Hi Sara
I was in DMP up until May 2020, I have another unenforceable dept with PRA group however they don’t keep harassing me like Lowell, they email me once every month explaining that the dept is unenforceable
Since Lowell have taking over this dept back in April 2023, they can not prove it’s mine as they can’t find the original cca agreement for the dept plus they emailed and said it is unenforceable that was in November 2023, however every letter they send me they don’t mention this dept is unenforceable when they said it is
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do they mention it is unenforceable in some of the letters?
Peter says
No they don’t, they have have only said it in a E-mail I got from them back In November
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so I suggest you send them a complaint saying that:
– in November 2023 Lowell confirmed that that cannot currently produce the CCA agreement to the debt is unenforceable
– you have told them you will not be paying this debt as it is currently unenforceable
– you understand that are entitled to ask to you pay it but you consider that the frequency of their contacts by letter, email, phone and text is unreasonable. They amount to badgering you and this is not conducive to delivering a good outcome for a retail customer and a breach of the consumer duty
– you understand that CONC 13 says “The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable”. Say your recent letters and emails have not done this, so they are in breach of CONC 13. And these communications also fail the “celar and not misleading” requirement under the consumer duty.
– you would like all communications by phone, text and email to cease. And you would like all further letters about the debt (apart from those required under the Consumer Credit Act) to clearly state that the debt is unenforceable.
Peter says
Thank you Sara for your advice I will definitely send that to them
Peter says
Hi Sara
Thanks for all your advice so far, after going to the ombudsman to complain about Lowell, the obudusman sided with Lowell to say they could still sent me letters e-mails about the dept however the ombudsman did agree that the dept remains unenforceable
Lowell started to send me recovery letters, I told them to stop sending me these letters untill they can prove the dept is my name and they can send me a true copy of the credit agreement which they have failed to provide
They have sent a email saying the dept is now enforceable because they checked my credit file and said my last payment towards this dept was august 2019 I was in dwp at the time
Can they say this? As they did say the dept was unenforceable now they are saying the dept is enforceable even thou they can’t provide me the true credit agreement for the dept?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you made a payment in 2019, then the debt is not statute barred. but you have never said the debt is statute barred, have you?
Can you copy in here the bit from the ombudsman decision that says it is unenforceable?
Peter says
Hi Sara this is what the ombudsman said regarding the dept being unenforceable
Lowell do still have the right to collect the debt, as stated above, the unenforceable element of it, means they can’t take any legal action. So I think it is reasonable they would try to make contact, and I don’t think it has been excessive. As whilst the debt may be unenforceable, it is still fairly owed, and Lowell are doing their job in trying to collect this.
Aa previously mentioned this RBS account was opened on October 2004, however, in October 2006 It defaulted and I started paying into a DMP, until August 2019 I stopped paying into the DMP and started requesting credit agreements for all my creditors, Since Lowell took over this account from hoist in April 2023 they have admitted they can’t find the original credit agreement but are now saying the dept is now enforceable as I made my last payment to hoist was in August 2019? How can they say it’s unenforceable then say it’s enforceable without providing me the original credit agreement?
I have another unenforceable dept with PRA group they e-mail every 6 weeks and they mention everytime that the dept is unenforceable
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok just reply to them that the fact you have made a payment within 6 years means the debt is not statute barred, but you have never suggested that it is. Point out the debt remains unenforceable as they cannot produce the CCA agreement for the debt.
joanne says
Hi sara
I have an old Lloyds bank debt from 2004, I got a letter from Lowell threatening me with further action.
I sent 2 letters asking for CCA’s on two accounts, we heard nothing back, £500 and £12000 debts, I phoned and explained I had sent two letters.
He requested on the phone for the the CCA for the larger sum and said he cant request anything for the £500.
I rang again and again said I had heard nothing and requested the CCA, the person said it hadn’t been done and would request it as it should have been done.
today we got another letter from them.
“we acknowledge your request for supporting documentation however due to the age of the account and the retention period that has last we are unable to fulfil this request.”
“We have checked our records and can confirm that the last payment was received towards the account on 21/02/2023. Accordingly, we can confirm that the account is not statute barred and is enforceable under section (5) of the limitations act 1980.”
that payment was to a different company hoist.
they also say in the letter the account is on hold and our concerns have been review and the matter is closed, its on hold for 30 days to so we can review this information and after that they will be in touch.
We have no CCA from them, but they are claiming it is still enforceable, what should be our next action?
thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
reply that CONC 13 says a firm should not mislead a customer about the enforceability of a debt when they are unable to produce the CCA agreement.
Rebecca says
Hi Sara,
Link Financial bought my Tesco Loan debt last year. I have been thinking about requesting the CCA to see if I can offer them a low settlement before trying to get a mortgage next year.
I’ve just seen that Tesco Bank loans are being bought by Barclays, do you think Barclays will get my account info with it being closed last year when sold to Link?
Does this mean it’s a good time to request the CCA from Link as the likelihood of them being able to locate the CCA seems like it would be low?
For more context the loan account is 4 years old and the debt/default is nearly 3 years old.
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think the Barclays takeover is a red herring – it is unlikely to make any difference to whether link have the right to ask Tesco/Barclays for the CCA (some debts are sold without that right- then the debt collector can never get the CCA) or whether Tesco/Barclays can find it.
What is the default date on your credit record of this debt? When was the loan taken out?
Rebecca says
Hi Sara,
The loan was taken out in January 2020 and defaulted in February 2021.
Do you think there’s a chance the CCA won’t be found?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s possible, I wouldn’t say it is over 50% chance. But you will still have a difficulty getting a mortgage next year if you settle this debt this year, in full or partially.
Have you looked at whether you could win an affordabilty complaint for the loan? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. If you win that, the default should be removed.
Rebecca says
Hi Sara,
I previously contacted Tesco Bank with an affordability complaint as this was a second loan with them to pay off the existing and borrow more money. They increased my interest rate for this loan from the first also which suggested to me that they knew it was riskier lending to me again. However, their response claimed they had done no wrong. I contacted the financial ombudsman with their response as well and they were found to be in the right unfortunately. This was all before the debt was sold on.
Kaye says
Hi Sarah.
I’m in a similar situation. I took a loan out for £15000 approximately 8 years ago. I have been in a DMP with StepChange and Tesco have sold my debt to Link Financial. I have a default for this debt which was placed on there on 9th July 2018 (due to drop off next month). Is it worth me asking for the CCA from Link Financial? What is the likelihood they will be able to provide it? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large is the current balance? How large are the other remaining debts in your DMP? How much are you paying a month?
Kaye says
So the balance on the loan is currently 15k. It started life at 21k (including interest). I’m paying £210 a month. There are other debts (totalling around 8k) on the DMP.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s going to take a very long time to clear the debts at that rate and will be a lot quicker without this one.
I can’t guess at how likely it is that that the CCA will be found, but It seems worth asking for it.
Kaye says
Hi Sarah, so I have found a letter from Intrum that I received in November 2023 offering me 20% off the balance if I paid the debt off as a lump sum. Do you think they have offered this reduction as they know the debt is unenforceable? Obviously the default is due to drop off in July (next month). I have sent an email to them today requesting a copy of the original CCA and have asked them to provide this within 12 working days. Is this common tactic used by Debt Collectors (offering a reduction in the amount to pay back) when they know they can’t enforce the debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s a common tactic used even if they could enforce the debt. They would much rather get 80% easily from you than Go to court to get 100%
E says
Dear Sara
I contacted you in January and you kindly assisted me with CCA advice. I then applied for a CCA via Link Financial who made the request to my original lender – Barclaycard. I have received the following documents: Short Form Cancellation; Historic Terms and Conditions; Varied Terms and Conditions. However, there’s nothing signed/nor my name printed by me anywhere amongst any of these documents nor any agreement date shown. Is this considered a complete CCA? Link Financial have also enclosed two covering letters: The first states that they have enclosed the requested documents which completes their obligation under section 77/78. The debt is enforceable. The second covering letter reads: The account has been terminated. The current balance is the total outstanding balance that is due and payable immediately.
Please can you kindly advise my next steps, if any? Many thanks, E
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The How can you tell if it is right? section in the above article says what to do if you aren’t sure.
E says
Dear Sara
They have sent what they refer to as a reconstituted copy of the agreement. My name & address is there, the company name and address is there but there is no date that the account was opened, no credit limit, no digital signature. What do you suggest? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What do National Debtline and the Legal Beagles forum say? This is not something I can give advice on
E says
The Legal Beagles Forum says that the agreement should have the credit limit and from what I can glean my signature (I understand typed if application made online) both of which are missing. Having said that, there’s a lot of legal jargon that I don’t understand and I am concerned about making the situation worse without adequate understanding. I have a payment plan in place with a debt charity, the default drops off in May and it would be an enormous relief to think the remaining balance could possibly be written off at that time. It doesn’t seem that simple though – even if the CCA isn’t correct..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back and ask again if you arenT clear on the forum
Amy says
Hi Sara
I am preparing to send a couple of CCA requests. Please can I check it is ok to send these without a signature on?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it’s fine.
T says
Hi Sara,
It has been over a year since I sent a CCA request to Virgin. The £1 was cashed (and applied to my account?) but I have not heard anything. Prior to doing the CCA request I had started the ball rolling with an affordability complaint which is on going but even if fully upheld there would be a remaining balance. What I’m confused about though is that the account has not been defaulted even though I havent paid anything for over a year. If they aren’t able to produce the agreement and it’s unenforceable but not defaulted will it just sit on my credit report as there is no date for the 6 year drop off?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they aren’t able to produce the agreement and it’s unenforceable but not defaulted will it just sit on my credit report as there is no date for the 6 year drop off?
yes. As the article above says in the “What about my credit report?” section, this is not good news. You can ask Virgin to add a default 3 months after you stopped paying.
What has happened to the affordability complaint? Is it with FOS? These complaints don’t usually take so long.
T says
Adjudicator upheld from account opening but Virgin rejected this and proposed from a limit increase. I wasnt happy with this so it went to an Ombudsman who’s provisional decision is agreeing with Virgin. I have provided further information in the hope to revise their decision.
I’m assuming they will eventually default the account regardless, is that when I request it is back dated on do I ask them now? Given they ignored my CCA request not sure if I should actually contact them? Although they would be fully aware of the FOS complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
i don’t see any point in arguing about this until the affordability complaint is sorted. Unless the account is very old, I have no idea why you have asked for the CCA agreement at all.
T says
It was originally a MBNA card so I believed it was worth doing the CCA request as I had doubts they would be able to produce it. It was also at a time when I was trying to get my head round all the information having finally realised I had a big problem that needed to be resolved.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, that is a good reason. I suggest letting the affordability complaint get sorted first then returning to this.
T says
Unfortunately the Ombudsman agreed with Virgin and so they have refunded only from an increase in the credit limit. However, there has still been no acknowledgement of the CCA request. I have notified the adjudicator and asked them to query this and waiting for a response. Do you have any advice on what I can do? As previously mentioned, the account is not in default although I believe it should be and based on the Ombudsman decision this should also be back dated to the time of the credit limit increase but would appreciate your thoughts.
The Ombudsman said:
if an outstanding balance remains on Mr # account once all adjustments have been
made, it should contact Mr # to arrange a suitable repayment plan for this. If it
considers it appropriate to record negative information on Mr # credit file, it should
backdate this to when it shouldn’t have provided the additional credit in question in
the first place;
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and what date was the credit limit increase that FOS says should not have been given?
so a default added for that date will drop off your credit record in October this year.
T says
It was Oct 2018.
Thanks Sara, is there a way to push for a default with the argument it should be backdated? I have not made a payment to the account since Oct 2022 but understand they have not defaulted the account due to the ongoing FOS complaint. Feel that is also unfair as they have been adding interest when I think it should have been defaulted.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
but they have now refunded that interest, haven’t they? Have you set up a repayment plan? how long will that take to clear the balance?
T says
They have only refunded the interest for the balance over £14k, the limit that shouldn’t have increased. The balance is still over 18k so would take a long time to repay as they have said it will still attract interest for £14k of the balance. I was given stupidly high limits, £9k to start, rising to £14k and then £19k. I’m really disappointed that the Ombudsman only found fault in the last increase.
I have not heard directly from Virgin regarding a payment plan and not keen to set anything up whilst there is still no response to the CCA request
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you sent them a complaint about their failure to reply to your CCA request?
julian says
dear sara hi my name is julian
ive just found you website debt camel
just need a little advise if possible ,ive got 6 credit card debts going back 15 years or more all of vthem been bought or passed on to companys like cabot and allied international ,i have payed a token payment for one pound for each one all these years ,im 63 now on dissabilitys cant work ,lost my wife of 40 years thats impacted my life greatly having this debt on my mind all the time ,even though its only 6 pounds a month it seems pointless on both sides especially for my health to keep paying for this ,it will just never get payed in over 100 years so was reading about this cca agreement looking like it might be a good idea to ask for ?.or is there anything you could suggest just to have this debt off my mind quashed and finished with ,all it does is impact on my life ,thank you julian im really sorry to give you a big message like this but would much appreciate your advise and help ,thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can do. The article above has a link to a page with a template to use.
(If they do manage to produce the CCA, you can ask them to write off the debt because of your age and health problems. But let’s look at that at the time.)
julian says
thank you so much for your much appreciated advice ,i am so gratfull ,i will get on with asking for the CCA for now
will be in touch again thank you julian
julian says
dear sara
hi its julian i did as you said and asked 7 companies who my debt was sold on to for the cca
and suprisingly i have had some quick replies.
three of the seven have replied saying they havnt been able to obtain the information requested if it comes available later we will complete your request .until we can supply this your account is unenforceable ,meaning we are not permitted to obtain a county court judgement against me and can not pursue legal action .
im hoping this is good news for me after all these terible years of hasving this .would you think wait a few months then stop paying or stop paying now ,i only pay a token payment at the minute ,thank you julian
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so those 3 debt collectors have asked the lenders?
is making the token payments difficult at the moment?
julian says
hi sara ,thank you for the quick response
yes those 3 who have asked the lenders are all from cabot
about the token payments yes i can survive at this moment with those .
but due to how the stress of this affects my health problems and life i would love to have none of it to think about .
just be rid of them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so this is hard. Some of the CCA may well turn up. Is it more stressful to stop paying them now and restart in a month? or to carry on paying?
julian says
hi sara
i can carry on paying them ,only if i know that eventually there written off
im sorry not sure what you mean buy stop now and restart in a month ,does this mean wait untill i see if the cca turns up ?
they say in the letter they cant obtain the information ive requested ,im assuming this is the cca ?
thank you julian
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You said originally that “they havnt been able to obtain the information requested” – there is a difference between that and “they say in the letter they cant obtain the information ive requested”
Have they said that they have asked the lenders for the information but it hasn’t yet been provided? Or that they will not be able to provide this information?
If you aren’t sure, can you copy in exactly what you were told.
julian says
hi sara this is exactly what they say
we havn’t been able to obtain the information you requestedfrom the original lender .
if this information becomes available to us later ,we’ll complete your request and send you
the relevant in formation
untill we can supply this ,your account is unenforceable .this means we’re not permitted to obtain
a county court judgement against you ,whilst we cannot persue legal action your balance remains outstanding
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so they havent said they can’t get it, they have just said they haven’t been able to so far. It may still turn up in future.
So you can stop now and tell them that you will not be making payments while the debt is unenforceable but will restart if they manage to obtain the CCA.
julian says
hi sara thank you for the reply
yes it seems thst way ,but there is good news well all were good news but the 2 link ones i have
they say the original creditor has been unable to comply with your request and therefore the account is considered
as unenforceable .
i would like to also make you aware that the comercial decision has been made to no longer pursue you for the outstanding balance .due to this ,no further payments are required and contact from lonk financial moving forward will cease .this completes our obligations …. so thats all thanks to you sara thank you so much
Hannah says
Hi Sara,
I defaulted on Halifax credit card April 2018 which was passed to Cabot financial. I have been paying £30 a month up until January this year. I missed a payment and my direct debit was cancelled. I have now received a letter from Mortimer Clarke Solicitors as cabot have sold the debt to them, asking me to make a payment or they will take me to court for CCJ. Obviously, I panicked and called them and have now arranged to pay £30 a month to them. The default will 6 years old end of April. Where do I stand with this debt? Because I have now set up an agreement with them and have been paying Cabot financial, doe this mean the 6 year rule does not apply to me? Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The debt should still be removed from your credit record after 6 years.
Can I ask what the rest of your finances are like?
Hannah says
I have 3 defaults all getting removed this what. When they asked what I had left at end of month and after going through all my expenditure I had £60 left each month and they are taking £30 a month which will be for 7 years. I was under the impression I would be clear from this after 6 years but now I’ve started a new agreement with this solicitor. What I’m wondering is, if I decided not to pay it, can they take me to court after the 6 years have passed?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes they can – a debt will not become “statute barred” until you have stopped paying them for 6 years, so as you have been paying them, this cannot be close to being statute barred.
the same may be happening to the other debts where the defaults have dropped off your credit record.
Are you sure you can afford these payments? If not, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your options.
Tg says
Hi Sara, following all your advice, I have 4 debts with Payplan, 3 (2 with Cabot and 1 with link) were unable to find the CCAs for these old debts defaulted in 2009 and these 3 debts I stopped paying in September 2023. The one with Santander for an old Cahoot online flexible loan they did find the CCA and I make monthly payments to this one myself.
Cabot have contacted me today with the message undernoted. I told them months back I am no longer paying the 2 debts they now manage as both are unenforceable, my question is based on the email I received today, 1) is this information correct and 2) should I continue to ignore their communications? I have not heard from Link regarding their one only an email a few weeks ago stating the balance. Many thanks as always.
CLYDESDALE BANK – CREDIT CARD £2,571.58 599612 NORTHERN ROCK – UNSECURED LOAN £3,646.24
You advised that all communication has to state that your debt is unenforceable. This is not correct. We are able to contact you about the account but do not have to state that they are unenforceable upon every contact, especially if this is something that you already know. We are not able to take the matters to court, but we are still within our rights to contact you as the balances remain open and outstanding. It’s my job to make sure that your account will be cleared in the shortest timeframe possible based on your affordability. Please can you follow this link and complete our online budget planner In the meantime, I’ve placed your account on hold for 14 days to give you the time to get back to me or set up your plan. If I haven’t heard from you after this time, we’ll get back in touch to see how we can help you further.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You advised that all communication has to state that your debt is unenforceable. This is not correct.
That is correct. the FCA makes an exception for statements required by the CConsuer Credit Act which have a set format that the sender is not allowed to amend at all.
See the relevant FCA rule:
CONC 13.1.6 (4) The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.
especially if this is something that you already know.
haha. No that is not an allowable excuse.
but we are still within our rights to contact you as the balances remain open and outstanding.
That is correct, provided they tell you it is unenforceable. And that sort of contact cannot be so frequent as to be unreasonable.
I suggest you reply by email that CONC 13.1.6 (4) does not say that a creditor doesn’t have to mention unenforceablity if the consumer already knows it and the next communication you get from them (apart from one required under the Consumer cCredit Act) that fails to clearly mention unenforceablity will result in a formal complaint which you will take to the ombudsman if necessary.
Also say you do not intend to make any payments while the debt is unenforceable and so you will not be completing a budget planner.
Tgrant1 says
Thank you very much Sara I will do that now
A says
Hi Sara
I defaulted as a newly single parent with a low income in 2008. Debt mgmt plans were set up , which I have been paying ever since. 3 bank debts (c/card, o/draft, loan- same bank) initially with Cabot, later taken over by Debt Managers and 1 c/ card with Robinson Way.
Never hear from Robinson Way at all. Used to get statements from Debt Managers once or twice a year. I have always just paid £1 per month for each of the 3 Debt Managers debts, and £2 for the Robinson Way debt. I have not contacted them for years.
About 1 yr ago, Cabot took back control of the 3 Debt Mgrs debts and I got letters from Debt Mgrs saying that I needed to contact Cabot and arrange to pay them instead. They said they were forwarding the money to Cabot every month, so I just kept paying it and did not contact Cabot. Two months ago the 3 x £1 standing order paymts to Debt Mgrs were returned to my account immediately upon payment and the same thing happened last month.
Now getting letters from Cabot asking me to contact them as my “plan has failed”. They phone and text me every day. I never answer the phone or reply to the texts or letters. Politely asking me to contact them. Does the polite tone and lack of threat mean the debts are no longer enforceable?
Would be grateful for your advice. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As you have been paying the debts now with Cabot, the debts cannot be statute barred and so that cannot be unenforceable because of that reason.
For the credit card and the loan, it is possible that Cabot may not be able to produce the CCA agrement – so you can send a letter askingfor each asking about this as the article above says.
(This wont work for an overdraft as there is no CCA agreement to be produced.)
A says
Ok, I will ask for the CCA’s, it’s worth a try. Thanks for your help, it’s very much appreciated.
A says
Hello again – thanks for your advice! Cabot came back to me and admitted they do not have the CCA agreements for the two accounts and therefore the debts are not enforceable, but they said they will still continue to contact me.
They have however stopped writing to me about these.
However they are now writing to me about the third account (small overdraft of around £100), which they had not previously bothered to write to me about. They are saying that I need to set up a payment plan, even though I am paying and they know I am.
They still telephone me every day. I don’t answer and block their numbers but then they text me and I can’t block those.
They also leave voicemail messages every day.
So in a nutshell: 1) Can I /should I now stop paying the £1 per month on the two accounts that they cannot find a CCA for?
2) Do I have to keep paying the £1 per month on the overdraft? It would be nice just to put all this behind me as I’ve been paying them since the family break-up in 2008 and I’m near to retirement age now and work part-time on a low wage.
3) Am I entitled to tell them to stop contacting me and if so, is there a standard letter template for this?
Many thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1) Can I /should I now stop paying the £1 per month on the two accounts that they cannot find a CCA for?
yes. Tell them you will not be paying these
2) Do I have to keep paying the £1 per month on the overdraft? It would be nice just to put all this behind me as I’ve been paying them since the family break-up in 2008 and I’m near to retirement age now and work part-time on a low wage.
Yes. I suggest you reply that you already have a payment plan set up for £1 a month and as you only work part time on a low wage you cannot afford any more. When you retire, at that point you could ask them to write it off
3) Am I entitled to tell them to stop contacting me and if so, is there a standard letter template for this?
No. Tell Cabot that you understand that they may continue to contact you but you would like all further communications to be by letter.
From here on start keeping a log of all communications – date, time, method, whether they mention the debt is unenforceable. If after a few months you think you are getting too many, come back here.
A says
Will do, thanks once again for your help.
Sam says
Hi Sara,
I have defaulted Barclays and capital one credit cards and the last payment made in 2016 after that I have not acknowledged the debit nor payments.
Defaulted cards entries has been removed from credit file in the month of August 2023.
Now Lowell sending mails to make payment.Can they enforce legally to make payments or I can ignore ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 – they have a template letter you can send Lowell if they think the debts are likely to be statute barred.
Rina says
Hello Sara,
You’ve answered many of my questions before and hoping you can help with this query.
I have an agreement in place with NCO Europe who have been managing an outstanding debt (from 2005) which has changed ownership a number of times. I tried unsuccessfully 2 years ago to get a backdated default on the debt through FOS but my complaint was not upheld and I have continued to pay a monthly amount to reduce the debt. The debt currently stands at approx. £1300.
Despite a number of requests to NCO (and owners) for the CCA, this request was not responded to nor produced. In May last year I received notification that the debt had transferred ownership again so contacted the new owner for a copy of the CCA. The company referred the request back to NCO who have today come back stating the client cannot produce the document as they are no longer available.
Based on this, I wanted to know whether I can still request that the debt be deemed unenforceable as I am in an active repayment agreement with NCO? Do I have leverage to negotiate a reduction in the debt in full and final settlement?
Thanks
Rina
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Why did you carry on paying this while NCO could not produce the CCA agreement?
Rina says
NCO were only prepared to put the account on hold while the FOS investigated my complaint about adding a default and backdating the debt. Once the complaint was rejected by FOS, NCO started adding missed payments to my account and I didn’t want my credit record impacted so I continued paying. I currently have a clear credit record having successfully got a number of debt defaults backdated and removed from my record and don’t want to jeopardise that. NCO and the debt owner are only prepared to add a default at the point I miss 3 or more payments. (NCO took over facilitation of the the debt from another company after I entered into a DMP arrangement with StepChange in 2010)
I am no longer in a DMP, have a stable credit record with no defaults recorded and managing my credit much more responsibly. However this debt remains active (no default) and I wanted to know whether there was a way of using the fact that no CCA could be produced to at least reduce the amount outstanding and settle debt in full.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not if the debt collector knows you really want to protect your credit score. You can’t make them take a low offer. You either have to repay this all or stop paying it and live with the default.
Rina says
Thank you.
So due to me continuing to pay, the debt remains enforceable by law even though the CCA can’t be produced?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it’s unenforceable. But unless you stop paying, that isn’t really relevant is it?
Rina says
I understand, thanks for clarifying.
seasick steve says
I had a debt of £750 with creation finance but stopped paying over two years ago when a company called galkahad was dealing with my debts.
they stopped calling and sending letters then and the debt actually disappeared from my credit file.
but last week a company called csr solicitors sent me a letter which had been posted to my old adress which I haven’t lived in for over thirty years and I wouldn’t have received it then had pur postman who knows me brought it to my house I haven’t acknowledged it yet and I can’t understand as the letter says creation have tried numerous times to contact me which I found strange ad they are fully aware of my present adress.
should I contact this company and ask for the cca as I’m concerned.
many thanks
steve
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago did you default on this debt? How old is it?
why did you stop paying? do you have other debts you aren’t paying?
seasick steve says
it was defaulted in 2018
I have four other debts which were being dealt with by gallahad who have since gone into administration.
they were dealing with my debts and for the three yard they were doing it if I got letters from any of my creditors they would deal with it
I stopped paying the other four whilst with gallahad bit two have since provided the cca,s I’ve made enquiries with the cab and have a case worker but its been a month and I haven’t heard from him hence my concern with this one.
do you suggest i ask them to provide the cca?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should ask for another appointment with CAB, say you have this new letter.
joanne says
Thank you so much for your advice, after a little bit of back and forth with Lowell had to send the letter twice as they denied receiving it, we got a letter back informing us that they have made the balance zero and hope that now closes the matter.
thats nearly £12000 written off and a massive worry lifted. They have “found” another debt for £750 and haven’t told us what’s happening with the £500 one in writing yet, but I will use what I have learnt from your website to deal with them also.
Thank you again sara.
George says
Hi,
I am currently on a dmp playing off my debts. They have all been sold on to various debt collection agencies.
I was wondering if I request the credit agreements will this effect my dmp? Or if they did send me the agreement would my dmp continue as normal.
Also, if a couple of my debts are with the same company do I have to send them two separate letters?
Thanks,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it wont affect your DMP – except if they can’t produce the CCA you will need to tell your DMP firm to remove the debt from the DMP.
If the creditor produces a CCA agreement you just carry on paying them. In theory they could then go to court for a CCJ – this doesn’t seem to happen!
yes you send them a separate latter with a separate £1 for each debt. Remember there is no CCA agreement for an overdraft, so don’t ask for one.
George says
Brilliant thanks for your help .
julian says
hi sara
its been about 8 weeks now and still no cca from all my credit card debts ,just a few letters saying cant obtain your request will let you know if we do ,good news 3 of them have written the debt off 2 of them which they cant get the cca and one of them through my ill health and age
cabot who hold 4 of them are being the awkward ones ,the sensetive team was talking with me and emailing me so nice they were ,i asked if they would write this debt off due to my health and age ,i forwarded them a lot of my private medical letters and a letter .and all they came back with was we need a financial statement ,i was disgusted bearing in mind this debt is unenforceable .
i emailed them and said you put a financial statement above my health and age ,you already know im on dissabillity benefits and cant manage at all i also told them i wont be paying anything while its unenforcable ,will start paying again if the cca is found .
everything is quiet now no emails no letters .i did put a complaint in ,to cabot and ive been thrown under the bus i feel ,just ignoring my emails now ,shocking behaviour .but at least now i am not having to pay anything ,and suppose i just have to wait
Jo says
Hi
I have a debt from a Lloyds loan it goes back to 2008 it is with Lowell I have been paying £10 a month I have asked for a CCA which they told me over the phone they have not got. I have never had a default from them and it is not on my credit file. If I stop paying will this reappear on my credit file ?
I am in the process of writing to them to ask officially for the CCA, Just worried it will reappear and affect my future chances of getting a mortgage
Sara (Debt Camel) says
an old debt like that should not reappear. Make a formal request in writing for the CCA
Nick says
I have an old debt with Tesco Bonus Credit Card (pre 2013) which was transferred at some point to Hoist Finance & in September 2021 I wrote & asked for a copy of the Credit Agreement under the CCA. They replied in December 2021 saying that they’d been unable to obtain a copy of the Credit Agreement & therefore the account was currently unenforceable.
I didn’t hear anything until March 2023 when the debt had been transferred to Lowell. They have written to me a few times since then asking for payment but they haven’t mentioned enforcing the debt (as presumably they knew they couldn’t?). I’ve therefore been ignoring the letters.
I have now had a letter from Overdales Legal Ltd, who say that Lowell has instructed them to collect the outstanding balance. They haven’t actually said they will try to enforce the debt, but they say that if I don’t contact them within 14 days, they may attempt to contact me further.
I’m wondering what to do. Should I continue to ignore, or should I write to Overdales & say that I asked Hoist for the C.A but they couldn’t supply it? Recently I’ve actually got a new (0%) Tescos credit card which I am managing perfectly fine. I’m worried that Tescos will call in the whole of this current balance or cancel the card. To be honest I’m also worried about having to repay the old debt, because after making F&F settlements on several debts using a small inheritance, I now have nothing left (or spare each month) to pay this one.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did you last make a payment to this debt?
Nick says
It would have been around September 2021 (it was included in a DMP which I closed in 2021 as I made several payments as Full & Final settlements – I didn’t make offers on any of the debts that couldn’t provide me with a copy of the Credit Agreement).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then the debt cannot be close to being statute barred.
“should I write to Overdales & say that I asked Hoist for the C.A but they couldn’t supply it”
yes, that is what I suggest.
Jorja says
Hello
There is an outstanding debt of £998 from Cabot financial. I asked for a CCA at the start of January and they sent me a letter acknowledging my request in January saying my account isn’t enforceable, I still haven’t received the CCA, I’ve ignored any contact attempts and haven’t paid anything, however they’re literally harrassing me with letters, texts and emails. I received a letter today saying they will take action on me such as sending more letters and phone calls. Are they allowed to do this? Any advice is much appreciated. Thankyou
Sara (Debt Camel) says
does every letter and email say that the debt is unenforceable?
Jorja says
Hello no just the first letter of them acknowledging my CCA request saying the debt is unenforceable but still owing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what exactly did that first letter say?
Jorja says
‘’We’re still processing your request and have contacted the original lender for the relevant information. Until we’re able to provide this information, your account is unenforceable. This means we’re not permitted to obtain a county court judgment against you. Whilst we cannot pursue legal action, your balance remains outstanding. Your CCA request is being handled by a member of our Customer care team, they will mail you the requested information once we have received it.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply asking if they have managed to obtain the CCA agreement for the debt. Point out that the FCA’s CONC 13.1.6 rules says that while a debt is unenforceable as the CCA hasn’t been produced ” 4) The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.” and that Cabot hasn’t mention the non enforceability in any of its recent email or letters.
Add that until they produce the CCA agreement you will not be making any payment.
From here on, start keeping a record of how many many times they contact you and whether the non enfoceablity is mentioned.
Jorja says
Thankyou! I have done so and will let you know the reply. I’m getting letters and emails weekly I thought there was a polite notice they could send you every couple of months or so. I know the debt is still owed but it’s just constant even though they haven’t produced a CCA. I sent the request on the 15th Jan 2024, the debt is from 2017/2018 I can’t quite remember to be honest. What’s the likelihood they will find it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t guess whether it will be found or not
Amy says
Hi Sara
I have posted on here previously for your help regarding my partner, who had several old debts (pre 2000). I had approached 2 of the debt companys on his behalf (he found it all too stressful) and neither could proved the CCA’s and confirmed (after prodding) that the debts were unenforceable. I had not approached the others yet, as was taking things slowly to avoid stressing my partner out. Unfortunately, my partner has passed away suddenly and I am trying to sort out his estate (I am also the executor of his will). His overall debt still stands at circa 5K. He has £1300 in his (only) bank account, but (as a retired professional musician) – he also has a guitar and amplifier (worth about 3K total). He is having a direct cremation (costing £1600) so it looks like each creditor would have a claim if I had to sell his guitar and amp but am I right in thinking this would only be if they can produce the CCAs ? I was thinking of sending them a copy of the death certificate but also requesting a copy of the CCA at the same time and wondered if I am thinking along the right lines, and also if they would need anything else (a copy of his will for example?
Many thanks, Amy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds like a lot of hassle, I would be inclined to write and say you will be aware that X had major health problem, he has now dies, here is a copy of the death certificate, the money in his bank account is unlikely to cover the funeral costs.
If you do want to formally ask for the CCAs, talk to National Debtline.
Amy says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for your swift reply. In that case I will just send the death certificate to each in the first instance, hopefully they will just accept that and close his account. Thank you again for all your help, Amy
Dee says
Hi Sara,
You have helped me in the past, asked for a CCA for a old debt which is not showing on anything, back in June 2021 nothing appeared (Cabot) the debt is unenforceable which I have written evidence to the fact, I have just received a letter saying that they have now sold it to BPO collections do I need to write to them with copies of the original letter asking for the CCA agreement & the letter stating that it is unenforceable .
Thankyou for your help always.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would wait until BPO contact you and then reply saying that Cabot were unable to produce the CCA agreement for the alleged debt in 2021 (attach letter from Cabot saying this) and unless BPO can produce the CCA agreement you will not be making any payments to the alleged debt.
Jorja says
Hi Sara,
I’ve had a reply from Cabot saying that they cannot find the CCA and my account has been actioned as CCA unenforceable however they’re not gonna close my account and will continue contact for payment and want me to set up a payment plan. They’ve put my account on hold for 7 days and if I don’t reply then they will be back in contact. Any advice on what I should do? Thankyou.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that you will not be paying the debt as it is unenforceable, and that you want to ask for all future communications to be by letter, not text or phone.
From this point, I suggest you start keeping a log of communications. These should not be too frequent.
natalie says
Hi Sara,
I have an old debt going back to 2004. It was an mis-sold loan with Lloyds with mis-sold ~PPI. I tried many times to sort it out with Lloyds and reclaim but they ran circles around me and as I was in poor health I didn’t have the energy to keep fighting it. The loan was a business loan and the company was wound up soon after taking the loan. Since then I’ve been continually chased by Hoist and Lowell and agreed to pay them £1 per month to get them off my back. However, I recently read your advice re credit agreements and requested it from them. They admitted they do not have one and can’t provide one but say I still owe the loan and proof of that is my paying £1 per month. ~because I originally told them about the issues with loan being mis-sold I can’t say it’s not my loan and they keep emphasising this. I sent them the CCA request in writing and any advice re where this leaves me with them would be really helpful. They seem to have very slippery tactics re this saying that their statement is proof of the loan etc as well as my £1 payments. I am not in a position to pay them any more than £1 and would like to just get this resolved. Many thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Cam you say what the balance is?
Was there a long period during which you did not make any payments?
Do you still have health problems? Do you mind saying how old you are?
john woods says
Over 10 years on a TPP after it getting arranged through StepChange. The original debt has been passed on. Should I ask for an original CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this just one debt left? what sort of debt was it originally? I assume it is no longer on your credit record?
john woods says
I have 3563 with Intrum. They purchased the debt from Tesco Personal Finance 26/1/2018. They are offering an 80% write-off. I also have just under 6.5k with PRA Group who took over Barclaycard (agreement date 17/10/2011).
My partner is in a similar situation, 7.3k with PRA (Barclaycard 27/9/2015), 3.2K with Cabot
(Halifax 4/7/2014) and 5k with Westcot (M&S Bank circa 2016). We arranged a TPP through StepChange in 2017. From time to time the companies ask for a financial update. Our income doesn’t leave much more than £50 a month. We have since checked our credit rating and it is good 750+
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well it do4esnt sound as though you can afford to pay 20% to intrum?
Were any of these debts overdrafts?
john woods says
Can’t really afford to pay 20% to intrum. It would blow a whole in savings (2k). All debts were just on credit cards built up over time. We don’t have anything on an overdraft. My partner is a fractional lecturer. I’m currently out of work. I guess if work picked up for me, we’d be able to save over a year to pay 20% to all 5 credit card debts. In the meantime, carry on with TPP, update companies with our finances and ask for CCA for our understanding?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that sounds like a sensible plan. If they cant produce the CCAs no need to offer any settlement
john woods says
Thanks for helping me see a clearing through the mist of uncertainty.
Simon says
Hi Sara,
I just wanted to say thanks for your advice on this page. I’ve got 4 old debts from around 2005 and I’ve been with Payplan since around the same sort of time.
I recently asked for cca’s and straight away the big debt (£7000) with Lowell was immediately written off and the account set to zero balance due to not having the cca! The other 3 debts can’t find the cca’s in the 12 days so have said the debts are not enforceable until they can, those debts are up to £3000 so I’m hoping I can either stop paying them in the next few months or pay an offer at a lesser amount.
Thanks, Simon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good progress. I suggest stopping paying them if the others don’t produce the CCAs in the next 2 months.
Are these the only debts left in your DMP?
Simon Griffiths says
There is another one on the plan but it’s an overdraft one and it’s only £200 but I’m going to clear that. Other than that there’s just the 3 left on the plan.
Katie says
Hello Sara,
I have 3 old debts from around 2008 ish, I say this as its not really clear on my Payplan account. These total around 29K and I am in a DMP with PayPal. I am thinking about asking for a CCA and am wondering if they produce the CCA can they still take more to court or issue a CCJ or do I just keep paying through Payplan as I am now.
I feel nervous about rocking the boat.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you know what sort of debts there were originally?
As you will see if you look back through the comments on this page, if the creditor can produce the CCA agreement that don’t rush to court. Alsotghoygh that could in theory happen, it just doesnt seem to in practice if you carry on with paying through Payplan.
So I suggest you send in CCA requests using the proper format as the article above says. And don’t stop paying when you get back the “we dont have it and have asked the creditor for it” type reply… if you don’t hear anything more after 2 months, then email and ask the debt collector to confirm the debt in unenforceable and then tell Payplan to stop paying.
Your choice is between taking this action and seeing what happens or paying for decades more… For seriously old debts like yours there is a good chance the CCA cannot be produced.
Katie says
Thanks for your quick reply Sara. They are originally a Lloyds loan, Halifax loan and a Goldfish credit card. They have been sold on a couple of times or so and are now with BW Legal, Lowells and PRA.
I really appreciate your advice and has given me confidence to go for it.
Thank you,
Katie
David W says
I have 2 large loans outstanding with RBS One for £20,400 taken out in 2008 and another for £17,500 taken out in 2011. Both defaulted in 2013. In April 2017 they agreed a monthly payment plan of £29.70 a month, and I have been paying this ever since.
In late 2017 RBS instructed AIC to take over managing the debts on their behalf. AIC try to call me from time to time but never leave a message.
I continue to get monthly statements from RBS as well as notices of arrears every 6 months from their collections team.
These are old debts, but as they have not actually been sold to AIC, is there any point in requesting the CCA’s? I still owe around £24k, so obviously have no chance of ever repaying them, especially as I am probably going to have to retire soon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes I think it is worth asking for these.
David W says
Hi Sara. Should I send the CCA requests direct to RBS as AIC have not actually bought the debts as far as I can tell?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes if you are sure AIC are collecting on behalf of RBS
David W says
Thank you very much Sara. I will give it a go.
James F says
Hi Sara!
I have a £17k debt with UK Amex, and after a couple of recent missed £800 payments they immediately passed it to AIC who sent me very official and polite email (2 weeks ago) offering payment plans etc. I just made a one off £300 payment to buy some time, but maybe I shouldn’t have – will it affect a CCA request?
I moved to New Zealand in late 2022, and have no UK assets. No forwarding address left behind. I’d like to send a CCA request to AIC but I will struggle with the logistics of postal situation. Are there any UK lawyers that will take my case (CFA/no win no fee)
My agreement dates back to July 2006 so there’s a good chance here I think?
Grateful for any advice!
James
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have any assets in New Zealand? Do you ever intend to return to the Uk?
Where is your post being delivered to in the UK at the moment?
Do you have any other UK debts?
James F says
Thanks Sara,
I jointly own a home in NZ with my partner, we have a recent mortgage.
No plans to return to U.K.
Amex post is delivered to an old rental address, the landlord is aware and reminds me to update it.
I have an HSBC bounce back loan that auto debits £250 from my HSBC account. I have a small balance on an old M&S card
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So there are no lawyers that would take this on for free – no win no fee doesn’t work when you aren’t going to get any money back for them to get a percentage of.
You could ignore them hoping the chance of the debt ever following you to New Zealand may be low – talk to Business Debtline about this as they can also talk about your old Bounce Back loan – https://www.businessdebtline.org/.
You could ask some friend or relative in England to take your post and send them a CCA request.
Or you could set up a low affordable payment arrangement.
James F says
Many thanks, reply appreciate what you do here :-)
Gwen says
Hi Sara,
I have come out if a very dark period and relationship and have spent the last five years, re training and working really hard to look after my three children. I am now in a good salary and things are looking up but I have a number if defaults from my past which is preventing me from completely starting afresh (selling my house, clearing the very bad mortgage deal I am on – variable rate and increased by £500 per month). After struggling for a year and a half, I’ve decided to sell up, pay the mortgage and but elsewhere using any equity as a deposit, however I have defaults on my credit file. I have been paying things off slowly.
There is a default on my account where my name is completely misspelled. Would I be able to get this default removed as it’s not technically in my name? Sorry I know this may sound somehow, but I’ve been paying and paying my other debts that are defaulted. Some fall off this year but this one with the misspelled name doesn’t. I’m trying to put myself in a good position to apply for a mortgage and my credit score is just too low. Im looking for ways to get the defaults off. I’ve used some of the information on this website to write letters. I just need to reduce my outgoings – I have three children so I need a house to move into.
Any advise would be much appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Would I be able to get this default removed as it’s not technically in my name?
that is very unlikely. What date is the default date on it?
Other defaulted debts – do you still owe a balance on them? because you have to keep paying (unless the debt collector cant produce the CCA agreement of course) or you may get a CCJ which is on your credit record for another 6 long year.
Even when the defaults are no longer on your credit record, if you are still paying them a mortgage lender will be able to see them from your bank statements.
Gwen says
Hi Sara,
The default is due to come off November this year and I don’t owe a balance on them. I paid them off last year. I’ve asked them to remove the default with the letter template on your website using irresponsibly raising my limit as a reason.
I also have a debt with a car finance company. I had an accident with the car in 2018 and it was written off. Even though o has taken out a gap insurance for this instance, there was some technicality they used to get out of paying the difference and the car finance company wanted me to continue paying £280 a month for a car I wasn’t using anymore. They took the car back and wouldnt negotiate with me and so I stopped paying as I could t afford it anymore. They registered it on my credit file in 2019.
That debt is also due to come off later this year. There has been no communication from me since 2018 not any communication from them since registering the default on my credit file. I’ve waited this long for it to be taken off my credit and I’m hoping it will just be the end of it as it was very unfair. Can they still register a CCJ?
Thank you so much for your advice
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Even though o has taken out a gap insurance for this instance, there was some technicality they used to get out of paying the difference”
it is a pity you did not make a complaint to the Ombudsman at the time.
“They registered it on my credit file in 2019.”
what is the default date on the credit record?
Gwen says
November 2018
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well thy can probably still go for a CCJ now. After it has dropped off your credit file they may try but you would need to argue it is statute barred. If you arent getting any communications form them, you do not want to start this. Thelonger it goes when you don’t talk to them the better
Lisa says
Dear Sara I requested a cca from Natwest for a loan they say I had. They wrote backing saying they can produce it but sent statements but the adress is for scotland I have never been there. My paments are on this loan but the loan is not my account number. I have paid nearly 18k thinking I owed this. What do I do
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you ever have a loan from them?
Lisa says
I can’t remember but the account no. Is not what my natwest account was the address is in scotland yet my payments show on this account . The cca can’t be provided so how can they prove this is my debt and if not would they have to refund all the payments made to this account by me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds like it is the wrong CCA agreement. In which case the debt is unenforceable until they can produce the right agreement.
How long ago was the loan taken out? Does it still show on your credit record?
It sounds a very large loan – is there a health or other reason why you would not remember if you borrowed such a large loan from NatWest?
Lisa says
It says it was taken out in 2007 but I don’t recall it at all. The statement of account is listed at a Scottish address. They can’t provide the cca stating they are less then 10% confident that anything they produce would be accurate if compared with the original loan agreement. I have been paying this as payplan told me it was what I owed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you can certainly say that that is not the correct CCA agreement and until they produce the right one you will not be making further payments. Tell Payplan this.
I haven’t heard of anyone getting money back in this situation. Did you tell Payplan that you have no knowledge of the debt and ask them for proof of it?
Simon Griffiths says
Hi Sara,
Just a further update on my CCA case.
I’ve just received two letters from Link saying……
“Unfortunately the original creditor has been unable to comply with your request and therefore the account is considered as unenforceable”
“Although the account is currently unenforceable, the outstanding balance remains collectible and it is acceptable for creditors to register and continue the reporting of a default”.
Should I instruct Payplan to stop
paying Link now?
Thanks, Simon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes
Lisa says
Hi Sara, I cannot find my original comment from a number of months ago but I have decided to write to 6 of my creditors to ask for CCAs as it looks like all original debts have been sold on- all original defaults were during 2020 when I entered a DMP. I have debts with Link Financial (was a Tesco loan), NCO (Azzuro Associates loan) Cabot (Aqua Credit Card AND a Marbles credit card) PRA Group (MBNA card) Lowell Financial (Capital One credit card)
My reasoning for this is to see if all of these can be produced so I can then understand what sort of settlement offers these creditors would be willing to accept. I understand if CCAs can’t be produced I could make a very small offer if anything at all. However I have a couple of questions –
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I understand if CCAs can’t be produced I could make a very small offer if anything at all.
If the CCA can’t be produced, the debt collector that now owns the debt cannot take you to court and you can stop paying. But that doesn’t mean they will accept a low settlement.
Are all these debts showing as defaulted on your credit record?
Lisa says
Yes all debts show default dates mid 2020
John says
I have three debts with Cabot financial and have been paying £1 per month for years. Six months ago I wrote to them asking for the three CCA’s relating to my accounts. They are unable to find them so I have stopped paying them. Until recently I got monthly e-mails asking me to pay ,which I ignore and letters saying they may send an agent round to my house. This month I have started to get letters and e-mails from a company called BPO Collections who have been appointed by Cabot to contact me and recover the outstanding amounts. There is no mention that the debt is un-enforcable on their correspondence. What should I do ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have Cabot told you the debts are currently unenforceable?
Have you told Cabot you will not be paying while the debt is unenforceable?
Did the monthly letters and emails from Cabot say the debt is unenforceable?
John says
Yes they have.
I did tell them I will not be paying while the debt is unenforceable.
Most of the e-mails said the debt was unenforceable, occasionally they did not.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok tell BPO Collections Cabot have told you that the debt is unenforceable and you will not be making any payments while it is.
Lisa says
Had to post in separate comment due to length (sorry)
1) By asking for the CCAs and they can be produced could this upset the creditors and affect my DMP- ie could they potentially take offence and take me to court and reject the DMP?
2) if they don’t produce the CCA originally how long do they have to find this or is there no time limit?
3) Link Financial have advised me to contact Tesco as the original lender but I know this is not correct is it- and she mentioned that they can request it from Tesco- does this suggest there is a chance they don’t have the original CCA and are Tesco likely to produce this to them? (Debt was only recently sold to them on 7/8/2023 but this is my largest creditor so obviously keen to settle this as low as possible if I am able)
4) finally, the defaults are all registered during 2020 which I understand means they are removed from my credit file 6 years later in 2026- does this mean the debts don’t show on my credit file at all at this time even if there is still a balance? And therefore would this mean if CCAs are produced and therefore enforceable my credit rating would improve and I could potentially get another loan to make offers to settle those older defaulted debts where they are enforceable?
Thank you in anticipation of any help you can provide
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1) no this does seem to happen. Look back through the man6 comments on this page, no one has mentioned this
2) the debt becomes unenforceable very quickly. But realistically it may take them a couple of months to get the CCA from the original lender. If they do the debt is then enforceable again.
3) no it isn’t right. Tell Link you have asked them to produce the CCA agreement and it is up to Link to ask Tesco if necessary
4) the defaulted debts will continue to show for the six years after the default date even if the CCA agreement cannot be produced. And your credit rating won’t improve until they drop off. This also applies if you settle them in full – your credit score will not improve.
Lisa says
So if I was to partially settle any debts before the debts fall off my file 6 years after default date they will stay on my credit file longer than 6 years – so in essence the partial settlement resets the clock and I have to wait another 6 years for it to drop off my file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A partial settlement does NOT restart the clock. A defaulted debt drops off after 6 years from the default date if it settled in full, partially, still being paid monthly or not being paid at all.
Debi says
Hi Sara ,
Cabot has recently sold to BPO on your instructions I asked BPO for the CCA which has never been produced from when I asked in 2021 .The debt is unenforceable. I haven’t had a reply from BPO but suddenly I have received a bank statement from Lloyd’s from 2005 to 2010 it obviously is not a CCA but it just has a small paragraph stating when the loan was taken out there is no signature just a list of payments that were made . Does this mean that it has now become enforceable.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No this is not enforceable unto they produce the CCA. The fact you made payments has nothing to do with whether then can produce the CCA. You aren’t disputing that the debt exists, just asking them to produce the paper work for it.
How long ago did you ask BPO for the CCA?
DEBI says
It must have been about 2 weeks ago.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask BPO to confirm the deb5 is currently unenforceable
George says
Hi
I made a cca request to Westcot.
They’ve come back after about 2 months with a document that looks like a cca with the wrong address and no dates on it and no statement of accounts.
The front letter says ‘on review we can see an arrangement was set, however no payment gas been received for this account since 20 April 2024.
In view of this we have placed the account on hold until 26 June 2024. If we do not hear from you at the end of the hold date, the the account will return to standard collection activity and contact will restart’
Do you have any idea what this means?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The address wasn’t one you have ever lived at? Or didn’t at the time the debt started?
George says
It is my current address not the one at the time.
George says
Hi,
Was just wondering if you had any idea about this?
I haven’t had any contact since then. The debt has been moved to another collection firm. I have contacted them and had no answer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to them and say the CCA agreement cannot have been a true copy of the one at the time the credit was taken as the address is incorrect.
Joanne Walsh says
Hi Sarah I have 2 outstanding debts I have asked for the CCA’s
£2500 Lloyds credit card November 2007 with Wescot, Wescot has produced the CCA now for this now.
£8000 Lloyds Loan from June 2009 this is with Lowell no CCA as yet requested 30.04.2024
I have been paying £10 a month to both, I have searched my credit reports and neither are on there I am looking to apply for a mortgage shortly and unsure how to proceed with the debts going forward with the wescot one would it be okay to offer a settlement figure or would this show as partial settled with neither showing on my credit file really don’t know what to do for the best.
Thankyou
Joanne
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you settle the westcot debt partially itwill not reappear on your credit record.
Lisa says
I wrote to NCO Europe who I believed purchased one of my loans and a credit card debt to ask for the CCA along with the postal orders and they have replied with this
“Thank you for your request and payment for a copy of your credit agreement which we received today and have forwarded to your creditor.
Your creditor has advised us that they no longer require payment for this therefore we are returning it to you. You will receive the credit agreement in due course.
If you have any queries with regards to this letter please do not hesitate to get in touch with us either by telephone on 0330 060 1155 or email Correspondence@ncoeurope.com”.
They refer to having sent my request to my creditor for the copy of the CCA- but aren’t NCO Europe my creditor now not the original creditor?- or does this mean they haven’t bought the debt but are just collecting it for those original creditors?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It suggests they are collecting for the original creditor. Does this debt show on your credit record?
Lisa says
So the one debt with NCO is for Azzuro Associates which shows on my credit file as Azzuro Associates and not NCO but it was originally a loan from Livelend which I believe was sold to Azzuro so I guess NCO are collecting for them but that’s not who I took the loan out with. The other debt I believe is an old Vanquis credit card but this is showing as settled on my credit file and I can’t see any debt that resembles that one on my credit file with NCO or anyone else
Sara (Debt Camel) says
which I believe was sold to Azzuro so I guess NCO are collecting for them
That sounds right.
So wait and see if the original credit agreement can be produced.
Graham says
Hi, I have just sent formal request for the cca’s to Wescot and the PRA group.
If I get a reply from them stating that they cannot be produced and the debt is unenforceable, can they still send debt collectors to my house if I stop making payments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
legally yes.
But a debt collector has no right to entry to your house. So you just tell the creditor and the debt collector that you will not let them in. Up to them if they want to waste their money after you have done that… but it would be unusual! It isn’t something to worry about.
Jen says
Hi Sara.
I’m wondering if you can shed some light.
I have a defaulted unsecured loan with Halifax, this loan was taken out on 9th June 2018. It was defaulted in June 2019, however I have continued to pay every month under an agreement with Halifax recoveries team. The outstanding balance is £10550
This month June 2024 6 years after I initially took the loan out ClearScore credit rating app shows that my Halifax unsecured loan has been removed from my credit score.
Why might this be? Is it likely it’s been sold on to a debt collection company? If this is the case will the default still remain until next year? If it’s gone to a debt collectors, should I not make any contact with them until next June when my default may be removed? And then ask for a cca?
TIA.
Jen
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know why it has gone. If the debt has been sold, it should not disappear.
You could Ask Halifax but as you dont Want it reappearing, it’s best not to!
This is a large loan that went wrong very soon. Do you think the loan was unaffordable from the start? A loan is only affordable if you can Pay it and also pay your other debts and bills and have enough month for everyday expenses without having to borrow more. Yo7 may be able to win an affordability complaint that would mean interest is removed from the loan and you only have to repay in total what you borrowed.
What is the rest of your financial situation like at the moment?
Jen Micham says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for your reply. In hindsight it was unaffordable. I had the interest stopped 5 years ago when I defaulted and made the agreement with Halifax.
I complete yearly income and expenditure and have an agreement with Halifax that I will pay £50 a month. Do I ring them and ask them about my agreement? I send the payment every month and haven’t missed a payment since it has been put in place
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should make an affordability complaint about the loan to Halifax. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ for how to do this.
There is almost a zero chance of Halifax not having the CCA agreement for such a recent loan. There is little point in asking for this.
What other debts do you have at the moment?
Jen says
I don’t have any other debts, I consolidated all the debts I had in to this loan and haven’t taken anymore out since then.
What could the complaint achieve?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you win The interest is removed from the Halifax loan, reducing what you have to repay.
Liam gorman says
I have a nationwide loan debt. I have a letter from June 2017 that states it is ‘written off’ but they will continue to seek the money.
I’ve paid £5pm for 7 years, the default is now off my CRA report but I still owe £6.7k.
What can I do?
I want it gone but am unsure of my rights.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why did they write it off?
why did you carry on paying if you have a letter saying it is written off?
Paul says
Hello Sara
I have had a letter about a debt that has recently defaulted. It says the debt is now owned by Intrum, but is being administered by Capquest and managed by Moorcroft. The question is, which of those three should I send a CCA request to?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who was the letter from?
Who was the original lender? What sort of debt? How recent is the default?
Paul says
It was a Virgin credit card, defaulted in March this year. There were two letters in the envelope. One from Virgin saying it had been moved to Intrum with capquest managing it, and the other from Capquest ssying it had been assigned to Intrum with them administering it, and that they had appointed Moorcroft to manage it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would email it to Moorcroft cc’d to Capquest and Intrum.
If they produce the CCA agreement – which is perfectly possible, then you could consider an affordability complaint against Virgin. But don’t try doing both of these complaints at the same time.
Paul says
Thanks, I’ll do that and what sort of response I get
Jean says
Hi Sara I need some advice
I have today received a Notice of Allocation to the small claims track (hearing) and the date for this is in November.
I am a little miffed because I have asked several times and even put it on the original Directions Quesionnaire asking for the company to prove I owe this debt because I have no idea who the original company is. I’ve asked for the CCA at least 3 times, and now I have this court hearing I am literally not knowing what to do.
PERCH CAPITAL are the ones taking me to court, I thought we would have mediation first as I did say I would have that but didn’t get anything. From the paperwork it says a payday loan is the original but doesn’t say which pay day loan. I had a payday loan around 6 years ago but they wrote to me about 3 years ago saying they went into liquidation and the debt has been wiped. I do still have that email.
I will go to court but I am going in blind I really don’t know who it’s for. The amount is for just over £500
Thanks for reading
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is urgent you talk to National Debtline and/or post on https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues/received-a-court-claim. I cannot give advice on a court case in progress.
Pauline says
I have had a Barclaycard for almost 40 years – I have a balance outstanding on there – I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve only every paid off my balance a handful of times.
I haven’t defaulted or anything but I am self employed and money is getting tighter each month – I can’t go bankrupt as I am a director and a trustee of a charity.
I wonder if I can ask for a copy of the original agreement – if they cannot provide me with one what are my options? Could I just not pay it off? I daren’t think how much I’ve paid in interest over the years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large is the balance?
Your other debts – how much do they add up to? Do you have any arrears on bills?
Have any credit cards increased your limit while you were only making minimum payments?
Do you have an overdraft – how many days of the month are you in it?
Pauline says
There is £9500 on the BC, I have an old C1 card (new in about 2000) with a £14k balance on it.
Other more recent cards total £23k. I don’t have any arrears.
BC reduced my limit in 2020 after |I’d paid it off. No other cards have increased my limit whilst paying the minimum.
I am paying about £100 over the minimum currently on each card.
I have a small £600 overdraft and I use it half of the month – it is free of charges and only about 85p in interest a month.
I don’t have a mortgage and I don’t intend to get a loan or mortgage any time soon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you renting or do you own your house with no mortgage?
Who is your overdraft with?
You are paying £100 more than the minimum to each credit card each month – but are you spending on the cards or is the balance actually dropping?
If you ask for a copy of the CCA agreement from BC and they cannot produce it, then the debt is not enforceable in court. You could then decide to stop paying, the debt will default. A default remains on your credit record for 6 years from the date of the default.
You would have to expect a potentially large amount of contact from Barclaycard and and debt collector they appoint or sell it to. It is highly unusual for someone to choose to default on a large card balance that they could afford to keep paying.
Pauline says
I own my home without a mortgage – I downsized in 2020 and paid everything off.
I bank with HSBC for both my business and personal banking
I have been using my card but paying off the individual items when I get cash in – so my balance isn’t increasing if that makes sense.
I’m considering all of my options because I am increasingly struggling to make ends meet each month – I can’t go bankrupt or do a DMP as it means I can’t be a company director and this is my main income (plus I employ people so don’t want to have to make them redundant). I am also a Trustee of 3 charities locally so can’t be bankrupt.
I am super frugal anyway so can’t cut my cloth any finer.
Do you have any other suggestions? I wondered whether writing to BC and C1 and asking them to reduce my interest rate may be a way forward?? I’m just sick with worry and living on a knife edge every month – I am a widow so don’t have anyone to talk this through with.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you have accumuated 30k of debt since 2021 whist having no mortgage or rent to pay?
I think you should talk to Business Debtline https://www.businessdebtline.org/ about your options – they specialise in the self employed and people with small limited companies. and they cover business and personal debts.
Bankruptcy is obviously not an option. But a DMP is – it is not a form of insolvency and will not affect your house, being a director or a trustee of a charity. . Business Debtline can talk you through your options and the pros and cons.
Pauline Gorman says
Sadly that is the situation – I had a load of building work done which cost twice what I had set aside (because of all building costs and materials going up) and then I’ve had a slow reduction in my invoiceable income in the last couple of years (which happened slowly and then all of a sudden to quote Ernest Hemingway) . I am devastated and gutted to be in this situation but need to do something otherwise I will drown.
I have contacted Business Debtline and completed an online budget before I call them after work tonight to try and sort this out.
Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.
A says
The Cabot constant texts and phone calls eventually stopped but today I got a letter, about the largest debt, which does not mention that it is unenforceable, asking me to contact them and set up “an affordable solution”. (On your advice I told them in a previous letter that I do not intend to pay the unenforceable debts. )
The letter also says “If we don’t hear from you… you’ll continue to receive letters, emails, texts or calls from us”. (I told them in my previous letter that any further communications should be by letter. It continues “It’s important to know, we may consider sending an agent to visit you at your home to attempt to put you in contact with us. We feel it is essential you’re informed that this could be a future possibility”.
I initially couldn’t find my previous post on here, but I found mention of CONC. 13.1.6 (4) elsewhere so I have emailed them a complaint letter stating that they are contravening CONC. 13.1.6 (4) by not mentioning the debt is unenforceable. I have also said that I consider this to be harassment and threatening and that if they send any more such letters I shall complain to the Financial Ombudsman.
I meant to add, was it ok for me to say they have contravened CONC. 13.1.6(4) and call their behaviour harassment/threatening? And threaten to contact the ombudsman? Surely they can’t send anyone to my home for an unenforceable debt?
I got another letter today about the other unenforceable account, but there are no threats to visit me in this one, but they still don’t mention that the debt is unenforceable. Shall I complain about this one as well?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s good that the constant texts and phone calls have stopped.
They are allowed to ask you to pay from time to time, the debt is unenforceable in court but still a legal debt. But as CONC 13 says, they should mention that the debt is unenforceable each time.
If the letter had mentioned that the debt was unenforceable, then I don’t think it can really be called harassing or threatening. If they were still bombarding you that would be different.
You can simply tell them they can send who they like, but you will not be letting any debt collection agents into the house as you will not set up a payment arrangement while the debt is unenforceable. These debt collection agents are not bailiffs, get a letter from one and tell them the debt is unenforceable and they probably just return it to the lender.
A says
Ok, thank you. I don’t like the thought of them coming here, it sounds very scary. I paid the payments without fail every month since 2009 and Debt Managers only ever wrote occasionally to offer a discount if I paid them off in full, which I could never afford to do. Since Cabot took over the accounts last year they have badgered me non-stop. If they had left me alone I would still be paying the monthly payments as I would not have found out the debts were unenforceable. Funnily enough, after me saying the texts and phone calls have stopped, I have now had texts from them this morning, and noticed that I have had several calls from unknown numbers in the last week.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These are debt collectors, not bailiffs. Not at all scary. And they have no more right to enter your house than the postman has. If you are clear you wont let them in, they are unlikely to even turn up – it just wastes their time.
Ok so in addition to complaining that the latest letter did not say the debt was unenforceable, which it should have, you can also complain that they have again sent you texts after you asked for this to stop. Can you answer one of the unknown number calls? If it turns out to Cabot, just say, this debt is unenforceable, I will not be making any payments and I have asked that I am not contacted bu phone. And End the call.
Joe says
just thought it was worth noting, I sent letters to 3 debt collectors each with a postal order. all three postal orders were returned, as apparently they are no longer required.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The problem is you can’t be sure without sending one. And there is nothin* to stop a firm changing its mind.
Paul says
I think legally £1 is still required to make it a valid requeat. I had most of mine returned, presumably it would cost them more then a pound to cash it so it’s cheaper for them to just send it back.