The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) gives you the right to be sent a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of your account for most loans, credit cards, catalogues, store cards and Hire Purchase agreements.
CCA agreements are important! If a creditor can’t find it then:
- you can’t get a CCJ for the debt; and
- you may decide to stop paying the debt.
But the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to:
- debts where there already is a CCJ;
- overdrafts,
- many household bills or tax debts;
- pre 2008 loans for more than £25,000;
- mortgages.
Sometimes asking for a CCA agreement is a good idea, but not always.
It shouldn’t normally be your first thought if you are having trouble paying a debt to the lender.
Asking for the CCA normally only works if your debt has been sold to a debt purchaser – unless the debt is very old.
Contents
How to ask for your CCA agreement
There is a template letter to ask for your credit agreement in this National Debtline factsheet. That factsheet also has a lot of information about CCA agreements and if you have any problems with one, talk to National Debtline.
This is not the same as templates asking for a copy of your personal information or making a Subject Access Request. If you want to find out if the debt is enforceable, use the specific CCA agreement wording.
Some points to be careful about:
- ask the current creditor for the CCA agreement, not the original creditor;
- you have to send a cheque or a postal order for £1;
- send the letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it and the postage receipt.
Also read the rest of this article first! You need to know what you will do if the lender sends you the agreement and what if the lender doesn’t.
What happens if they don’t send the CCA agreement?
If you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
If the creditor can’t easily find the CCA agreement they may send you an acknowledgement of your request. Something like the following is typical:
we acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information but as we have to request the details from the original lender we anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request.
A 40 day period is often mentioned but doesn’t have any legal standing.
It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.
I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them.
“Legal but not enforceable”
The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.
The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.
When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment. Here is what I suggested to a reader who was getting letters that left off this important fact: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”
Here are some more implications of the debt being legal but not enforceable:
- if you claim a PPI refund, this may be set off against the balance you still owe.
- the debt can still be sold to another debt collector. Make sure you keep all the CCA agreement letters or emails so you can just tell the new creditor you asked for the CCA agreement on dd/mm/yy and you won’t be paying anything to the debt until it is produced.
- you may be able to leave the debt out of an application for a Debt Relief Order so it won’t count towards the maximum debt limit. Talk to your DRO adviser about this.
- See below for the effect on your credit record.
“So I can just stop paying?”
If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.
But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months.
If the debt is in a DMP you will have to tell the DMP firm to stop paying it. Dent them the letter from the creditor saying they can’t locate the agreement.
You may find the idea of not paying scary. If you do, talk to National Debtline about this debt and the rest of your financial situation. It does help, being able to talk to a friendly expert!
I would allow the debt collector two or three months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found it in the first few months the chances of it turning up later are very low.
“The creditor hasn’t said it is unenforceable”
Occasionally a creditor will tell you they cant produce it but you are still legally liable for the debt which is true, but irrelevant – if they cannot produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court.
Sometimes the creditor goes into a lot of detail about how you have been paying so the debt isn’t statute barred. Also true but again irrelevant. You weren’t suggesting the debt was statute barred.
In this sort of situation, tell the creditor that you are not disputing whether you are liable for the debt or whether it is statute barred, but you would like the creditor to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have produced the CCA.
If the creditor persists with this, make a complaint and then send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Here is the story of a case involving an old HSBC debt, where HSBC had to pay compensation for not admitting the debt was unenforceable.
“What about my credit record?”
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? Check all three credit reference agencies to make sure.
If it isn’t on there, then it will never reappear, whether you pay it in full, in part or just stop paying.
A debt marked as defaulted will drop off 6 years after the default date:
- it will not drop off sooner because the CCA cannot be found;
- the balance will not normally be set to zero because the CCA cannot be found.
When the debt does not have a default date, if you stop paying now, a default will be added and it will then drop off in 6 years. Not good news! Read What should the default date be? and ask the original creditor to add a default date back years ago.
A default will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. And you shouldn’t want that to happen – it would mean the record would stay on your file for even if you stop paying.
The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it.
“Should I offer a low settlement amount?”
Some people decide to offer a low settlement amount. I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t need to do this! Not paying them anything is a perfectly good response in most cases! It is VERY VERY rare for a debt to turn up later.
A lot of creditors simply reject the low offer, even though you think it is sensible. They know that if they refuse you may decide to give them more. You cannot make a debt collector accept this low offer or complain they are being unfair if they don’t.
If you really want to make a settlement offer, stop paying them for a few months and then make the offer. That shows they can choose between your low offer and nothing.
The only time when you should try to get the debt settled is if it will still be showing on your credit record in a year or two when you want to apply for a mortgage. Then getting the debt marked as satisfied will help your mortgage chance a lot. But if the debt is no longer on your credit record or is dropping off soon, there is no need to do this.
What if they do send the CCA agreement?
How can you tell if it is right?
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
- your name and address when the account was opened;
- the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
- the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
- any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
It doesn’t have to have your signature on it. Indeed if you opened the account online you may well have signed it “digitally” and there is no document with your physical signature – this is perfectly legal.
If you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct, you can ask National Debtline about it or you could post about it on the Legal Beagles forum.
This may sound complicated but usually either the creditor admits they can’t find it or what they send you is fine.
What should you do when the CCA agreement is found?
This depends on why you were asking for the CCA agreement.
If the creditor has started a court case (you have been sent a Claim Form) then you may have hoped that the CCA agreement could not be found. But now you have it, that is not a possible defence so you need to think if you have another defence. Talk to National Debtline about your options.
If you were planning on making settlement offers to some debts and were hoping the lack of a CCA agreement could get this one settled very cheaply, that has been ruled out and you need to proceed with a more substantial offer.
If you are fed up with having to pay this old debt for many more years, look at your alternatives. If you just stop paying, you may get taken to court – especially as the creditor now has the CCA agreement ready to hand! If you have more luck with some other debts turning out to be unenforceable, can you now pay more to this one? Or is it time to look at insolvency or other options?
When should you ask for the CCA agreement – and when shouldn’t you?
A lot depends on your exact debts, who the original creditor was, who the debt collector is, and what your other options are for tackling them. So there isn’t a simple checklist here.
How old is the account and has it been sold?
The older an account is, the less likely it is that a CCA agreement will be found. It’s the age of the account that matters, not how old the debt problem is. You may have only defaulted on a catalogue account a couple of years old, but if it was opened in 2010 that’s well worth a try!
For a debt that is still with the original creditor, I wouldn’t bother asking for the CCA agreement unless the debt was VERY old or you are getting letters from solicitors about court action.
If a debt has been sold once it is less likely the current creditor can produce the CCA agreement. And this gets harder the more times the debt is sold on.
Court action and CCJs
If the creditor is seriously threatening court action, always ask for the CCA agreement. It is worth a try!
But when you already have a CCJ for a debt, it is too late to ask for the CCA agreement as the creditor doesn’t have to send it. If you have just found out about the CCJ you need to look at your options for “setting it aside“, not send a request for the CCA agreement.
Contacts about a very old debt you have heard nothing about for years?
If you haven’t been paying a debt for years and you aren’t being hassled by a creditor, you need a good reason to ask for the CCA agreement. It may be better to wait and see if you are contacted and then ask for the CCA.
But when you are contacted about a very old debt, asking for the CCA agreement is a very good idea. you should think first if the debt is statute barred, Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template you can send the creditor saying the debt is statute barred. This is simpler than asking for the CCA agreement.
But if the creditor comes back with a reason why it isn’t statute barred, then your next step should be to ask for the CCA agreement.
Hoping to settle debts with a windfall
If you have a windfall – an inheritance say – and you have a lot of debt in a DMP for several years so most of it is with debt collectors, asking for CCA agreements before you make offers is sensible. You don’t need to pay them anything if they cant produce the CCA.
Thinking about bankruptcy, a DRO or an IVA
Where insolvency (DRO, IVA or bankruptcy) looks necessary, it can be a waste of time asking for CCA agreements, unless not paying those debts would make the rest manageable.
Contacted about a debt which not yours
If a debt collector says you owe money but you don’t recognise the debt, you should send them a Prove It! letter saying you dispute the debt. Here the CCA is only part of the picture. You may get sent a copy of the CCA in answer to this – if the name and address on the agreement are yours and you did live at that property at that point, it is good evidence.
But keep focussed on the fact that what matters is proving who the borrower is.
Here is a case “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment” where a debt collector admitted the debt was unenforceable as the CCA couldn’t be found but wrongly still asked for payment.
Summary
In summary, asking for the CCA agreement is an uncertain process that can take months. If you have a lot of debts, make sure you are looking at the bigger picture, as well as thinking about the individual debts.
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
When to ask for a debt write off
Rebecca says
Hi Sara,
Is there any point in asking a creditor to produce the CCA if they have already taken court action? I assume they submitted a copy of the agreement at the time it went to court and that the court might have copies. They filed a CCJ against me and attempted to get a Charging Order which the judge dismissed. Does the fact that it’s already been to court mean they cannot seek legal action action in the future?
I also have some creditors that I have been paying for years who claimed my debts had been sold to them but I’m not sure they are even mine. At the time I decided to pay because they threatened court action if I didn’t. I’m not sure if I can send a ‘prove it’ letter now that I’ve been making payments. Do you think it would make more sense to ask for a CCA agreement? I don’t want to admit liability for a debt I’m not sure is mine but I might have already done that since I’ve made payments. Can I mention in the CCA request that I have no recollection of taking out this loan?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is there any point in asking a creditor to produce the CCA if they have already taken court action?
No. If there is a CCJ, the creditor is not obliged to even look for the CCA agreement.
I’m not sure if I can send a ‘prove it’ letter now that I’ve been making payments. Do you think it would make more sense to ask for a CCA agreement?
You can send a prove it letter, but if the debt is a loans or a credit card, asking for the CCA makes a lot more sense.
Making payments doesn’t admit liability – if it turns out the debt was another Rebecca’s. Making payments however does prevent the debt from becoming statute barred.
I would be inclined to just send the normal CCA request (link to template in the article above). keep it simple and see what they send you back.
BUT can I ask what your overall financial situation is? You have a CCJ and old debts you are making payments to. Do you also have newer debts that haven’t defaulted? Are you behind on any bills?
Aleksandra says
Hi Sarah
I used your advice in 2020 about requesting CCA from my debt owners which has helped me from 7 debs that I had worth over 20K 6 of them I have received letters that they cannot obtain this document or they obtaining it from an original lender therefore debt remains unenforceable. Only 1 has provided this within the asking timeframe( debt managers services) , not only that they send it to my old address, also they sent the copy to my new address just to make sure I got it.
Thank you for your advice
I just received letter – Claim Form from County Court Business Centre at Northampton. For my debt That was originally with Capital one then was bought by Cabot Financial. ( Mortimer Clarke solicitors acting on their behalf)
I have requested CCA from Cabot Financial back in October, 5th 2020 received reply letter from Cabot on October, 13th 2020 “currently do not have this information of file, however we request relevant papers from original lender… debt remains temporarily unenforceable”
Shortly after I’ve changed addresses informing at the same time Cabot and other agencies. With one month over lap between my new and old address. Mortimer Solicitors contacted me via email in January, 2021 which I have also updated them with my new address and stated that CCA has been requested from an the original debt owner ( Cabot financial on October, 2020) but still have not received it. Then they reply that this has been passed to relevant team.
Can I send respond back to Court for this claim and back myself up with those documents ( sent request letter to Cabot with prove of postage) and email to Mortimer Solicitors and with their answers. That this was not provided to me in timely manner.
If they in any point obtained the CCA between periods from December 2020 and now, is this debt enforceable? I just cannot remember if I received it in any point in 2021 as I cannot find copy of it.
Not sure how to respond to this claim
Either to acknowledge the debt
Or back myself with documents that it was not provided to me in the requested time frame. 12 days and 3 month after the original request letter was sent.
Can I call to Cabot and ask if thy have my CCA on file?
Your help is much appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they in any point obtained the CCA between periods from December 2020 and now, is this debt enforceable? I just cannot remember if I received it in any point in 2021 as I cannot find copy of it.
yes if the CCA agreement has been found, the debt becomes enforceable. But surely you would remember getting this letter?
You need urgent advice on how to respond to this claim form. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and/or post on the Legal Beagles court forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues. You may have a very good case. it’s hard to tell and I cannot advise you on this.
Aleksandra says
I did contact national Debtline they inform me I need legal advice. Thank you for your help. Will post on the forum
Debtissues says
I have had dealings with Cabot – they will and do go for CCJ’s (I know to my cost, before I discovered this wonderful site!!)
So make sure you get GOOD legal advice, as these guys don’t just threaten, they do it….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think debt collectors are much the same.
The important point is to open your post and read the letters.
Don’t miss a letter saying the CCA is here…
And don’t ignore a Letter BEfore Claim threatening court action! These things are best dealt with early on, before court forms arrive.
Shaun says
Hi Sara,
I’ve followed the advice here and requested a CCA for my outstanding debts from 2000 (October 2021) I received the standard unenforceable letter in the required Time frame. However today I’ve received a letter regarding the 2 accounts.
The letter reads “Please find attached a copy of the original Loan Agreement, provided to us by the original vendor”
and a poor copy of my application form (Credit Card) and set of terms and conditions doesn’t show the original the original credit limit or rates and continues to say the original vendor can’t produce a copy of the agreement for the second agreement and is unenforceable.
I’m confused – The letter isn’t telling me its enforceable or I should contact them to arrange payment. Just if I have any questions I should contact them. Is it possible that its not enforceable and they are just seeing if start payments again? I figured if it was enforceable – They would be a little more direct!
Should I write to them and ask directly – Do they believe the agreement to be enforceable ?
Thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t comment on whether this is a valid CCA agreement – see the article above.
It sounds to me as though they think they have produced the CCA agreement. You can ask them I suppose.
Shaun says
Thanks for the reply. I thought that too and I’ve done just that, emailed them and asked if this fulfils my request (I’ve checked against what’s above here and I don’t think it does) ill see how they reply.
Shaun says
Hi Sara,
I’ve received another bad copy of the credit card application form and reprinted terms and a covering letter stating the DCA account number, their interest rate (DCA) original inception date of November 2000, with MBNA and a payment due date (full balance) of 28th February.
I’m confident it doesn’t fulfil my CCA request, however they clearly do by stating a payment due by date.
I know they have to inform me if an agreement is unenforceable, they have with another account, however do they have to be equally clear if they think it’s enforceable? Thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline and/or post on the legal Beagles forum.
Kevin says
Hi Sara
I wrote to you last year when Moorcroft were writing to me on payment of a credit card for HSBC and requested the CCA agreement which they could not produce. Now it seems they have sold the debt onto a company called Credit Security Limited who sent me letters asking for payment, so I did they same thing in asking for the CCA agreement from them and all they have sent me a letter enclosing a Statement of Account which is old statements but no CCA agreement. The letter states “we trust the position has now been clarified and we will be pleased to agree an affordable repayment plan if you will complete the current information form”. Please could you help as to what is the best way to go forward with them.
Best Wishes
Kevin
Sara (Debt Camel) says
reply that they have not provided the CCA agreement that you asked for and can they please confirm the agreement is unenforceable until they do.
Kevin says
Thank you Sara, just checking. So it does not make any difference that they have supplied past statements, it only matters when they supply me with the CCA agreement, is that correct.
Best Wishes
Kevin
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well obviously I can’t see what they have sent you. But old statements are not relevant – you are not debying that you had an account, you are asking them for the CCA agreement.
Scoobie says
Hi Sara, you have given me great advice in the past, so many thanks for that. I now have another issue. It is regarding an unsecured loan with NRAM that I defaulted on in 2011 and they later sold it to Heliodor end-2019. I asked NRAM to default the loan to 2011 and they said no, they no longer own it and it should be Heliodor to do that. Heliodor said they can do it from 2019. So I raised it with the financial ombudsman and the advisor indicated that Heliodor should backdate it to 2011 and not NRAM as heliodor would have purchased the whole history and not just the loan.
So based on your knowledge and understanding, which is the correct one please and what approach should I take? Thanks Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your ombudsman complaint, who is this against?
does the debt show on your credit record under both NRAM and Heliodor?
Scoobie says
Thanks for your quick response. The complaint was raised against NRAM. The debt shows under Heliodor now, previously under NRAM until it was sold.
thanks Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so there is no closed debt showing under NRM that is not defaulted?
Scoobie says
no, nothing in terms of debt is showing for NRAM at all. Only my mortgage that was paid in full (experian)….
I just checked another credit agency (creditwise), and the last 6 years is showing arrears for Heliodor.
Very strange, hence I’m confused even more.
thanks Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if nothing is there under NRAM’s name, all you need is for Heliodor to correct the entries there are.
Nick says
Hi Sara. I have a couple of old debts (2008 or earlier), which are not on my Credit Record, and which the Debt Agencies concerned (Cabot & Hoist) have confirmed are currently unenforceable, as they cannot produce the original Credit Agreements.
These debts were included in a Debt Management Plan with Stepchange, which I have now ended. (I made F&F Settlement offers on some other debts which either were on my Credit Report, or where the Credit Agreement could be produced). Following your guidance, I have stopped paying these two debts.
Both Cabot & Hoist are continuing to try to chase me for the debts, with repeated calls, texts and letters (none of which I have responded to, apart from once when Cabot called & I informed them that I wouldn’t be paying until the could produce the Agreement).
Hoist have now sent a letter saying ” Your account is now with our reconnection team who will now begin to review your case to determine if a home visit may help you to reconnect with us”! Can they do this? If a debt collector turns up, basically I’m just going to repeat that until the Credit Agreement is produced, I won’t be paying – but I would rather not have someone turn up knocking at my door. Surely this is harrassment? Should I complain?
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you tell Cabot and hoist that you will not be making any payments as the debt is unenforceable?
repeated calls, texts and letters
do these mention that the debt is currently unenforceable?
are you keeping a record of how many contacts you are getting?
Nick says
I certainly told Cabot, when they telephoned. There wasn’t alot they could say, but the calls & letters have continued.
Not all of the letters mention that the debt is unenforceable- in particular the latest one (from Hoist) threatening a ‘home visit’ doesn’t mention that it’s unenforceable!
I haven’t spoken or written to Hoist.
I’m keeping all the letters, texts & have records of the call attempts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you email to Cabot and Hoist and say you will not be making any payments while the debt is unenforceable.
Say you are aware they can ask you for payment, but the FCA rules say that in each communication they have to say that the debt is unenforceable. Point out that they are not doing this at the moment and attach a pic of a letter from them which does not say this.
For Hoist add that you will not be opening the door to any debt collector they send round.
Nick says
Thanks Sara – will certainly try this!
Harry says
Hi Sara, a big thank you for providing such valuable information, I have been on DMP for over 12 years with several creditors, last may May, I have followed your advice and requested CAA from some of my creditors, all of them confirmed that the the debt are unenforceable as they could not produce the agreements, so stopped paying them, however today , one of them has now instructed another debt collector agency and they are now making contact by post acting for the previous debt collector asking for payment, surely they must be aware that the debt is unenforceable, could you please advise ?
Your help is greatly appreciated
Thank you
Harry
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just tell them. Say you won’t be paying unless the CCA can be produced.
Glad this has worked out so well for you!
Harry says
Thank you so much for your prompt reply, since I really don’t want to start any conversation with this new debt collector, Shall I just send them by post the copy of the letter that I have received from the previous debt collector that confirmed that they could not produce the CAA and that the debt in unenforceable ? or shall I just ignore them ?
Many thanks for your help.
Harry
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Don’t ignore them unless you want to be pestered. Email them if you don’t want to phone them up.
Harry says
Hi Sara
I will send them an email.
Thank you for your help, very much appreciated.
Harry says
Hello Sara,
Update, just received a letter from the new creditor stapled with a single page photocopy of the CCA, it dates back since 2004, it all looks right with my own signature and the right address back then, I guess my option now is to put it back on my existing DMP
(2 other overdrafts and a card which is still with the original creditor), is this the end of it ? or the CAA could still be be unenforceable due to the way it was redacted back in the days ?
Thank you once again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
due to the way it was redacted back in the days
what do you mean by this?
Harry says
Hi Sara,
I meant, if the CCA agreement that were made available at the time in 2004 lacked any terms that made them unenforceable now.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t tell what you are looking at. If you want to query it, ask on the Legal Beagles forum.
Harry says
Thank you for your advice Sara, will definitely check that forum.
mike kane says
Help?? My wife is from Wales and has an overdraft on a british checking account for $1500. She has ignored it–no letters.–no phone calls. Where do we go from here? Also we are moving to the US soon and the stature of limitations is 3 years in Maryland. Can they put it on the 3 reporting agencies in the US.
I have credit cards in my name only. Will they find out she moved ? If so, what can they do with the 3 year limit (not all states are 3 years)
I told here I would ask you, I figure sometime they may have a trial in Wales, so be it–can’t do it in the US because double jeopardy is illegal.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think a debt in Wales will at the moment appear on any US credit report – that could of course change over the next few years.
I can’t comment on limitations in Maryland. A local ex pat forum may have some information.
She could discuss her situation with National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
sara says
I have an old credit card debt with vanquis. Account opened approx 2006/07. Missed payments 2010, ccj 2014.
I have never made a payment, interacted etc. The ccj has dropped off my record and I’ve built up my history. I get letters re this debt from Cabot.The amount is approx £3000. My questions, can I ask if they have the cca as it’s already been to court? Is it statute barred as its so old, or does this not apply because of ccj? Should I offer a full and final payment?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They cannot go for a 2nd CCJ.
You cannot ask for a CCA – after a CCJ they have no obligation to try to find it.
CCJs never become statute barred but after 6 years they become much harder for the debt collector to enforce. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this before making them a settlement offer so you understand the legal position.
Confused2022 says
Non Cancellable Loan Agreement for £25,000 from Lloyds from November 2003. This is what was produced under a CCA request but I was not a business customer and don’t think I was High Net Worth and it had no cancellation rights included. It had a fixed monthly payment so it wasn’t an overdraft and it states loan agreement with a fixed APR. No terms or conditions were returned with it. And cancellation rights are no where on the terms. Can anyone explain what type of agreement this is. Wasn’t secured on a car or anything. I thought it was a personal loan but it doesn’t feel right. Any direction as to what rights I may, or may not have under this type of arrangement. I’ve googled everywhere but nothing on Credit Agreement Regulated by CCA 1974’ next line ‘Non Cancellable LTSB Personal Loan Agreement. The amount of credit is £25,000 and no where does it state I’ve borrowed more than £25,000, there is no total amount mentioned anywhere which may be credit plus interested. It’s very old I know but what does this sort of agreement mean. No T&C we’re included so no real idea if it’s enforceable or not. Help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this.
Rhian says
Hello
I have found this page recently and have found it very informative and helpful. I have been with StepChange for nearly 4 years and have decided to take the plunge and ask my creditors (PRA Group, Intrium and Cabot) for the CCA. I have received a reply from PRA group that whilst they are obtaining the CCA then they are putting my payments on hold, which StepChange have done on my behalf. I have also received a letter from Cabot to say the debt is unenforceable whilst they are looking into obtaining the document. The queries I have are:
1. How long can the payments be on hold before they can’t chase for payments
2. Intruim hasn’t provided me with any correspondance so should I chase them? I am still paying them through StepChange.
I’ll be thankful for any advice you can give.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should wait at least a couple of months from now before you start to think the CCA may not be found.
Leah says
Hi Sara,
In December you kindly gave me guidance on applying for a CCA for an old loan.
I defaulted on the LloydsTSB loan in 2013 and it was sold to Link Financial (managed by Wescot). The loan disappeared from my credit file years ago. I wrote to Link for the CCA in January asking them to send it over in 12 days. They wrote back this week, saying:
‘The original creditor has currently unable to comply with your request within a 12-day timeframe. Although the account is currently unenforceable the outstanding balance remains collectable and it is acceptable for creditors to register and continue the reporting of a default.”
‘We will contact you further upon receipt of an update from the original creditor.’
I am still paying the £1 a month and planned to stop paying if they can’t provide the CCA. However does this statement mean they can add the debt back to my credit file if I stop paying? “it is acceptable for creditors to register and continue the reporting of a default.”
Also how long should I wait for Link to get back me on word from the original creditor?
Your guidance is much appreciated,
Leah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
However does this statement mean they can add the debt back to my credit file if I stop paying?
No. It is a general statement mean that credit reporting will continue as it is at present – when a loan as dropped off, it should NEVER reappear – a CCJ might, but not the loan itself.
Also how long should I wait for Link to get back me on word from the original creditor?
of a couple more months i suggest.
Mike_p says
Are they allowed to continue registering a default if they can’t show it’s enforceable? There ISA post from a solicitor on the all about debt forum suggesting they can’t.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
McGuffick v RBS [2009] decided that failure to produce a CCA agreement did not mean that a creditor had to stop reporting the debt to a CRA.
Fred says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for some very useful advice you’ve given me in the past. I’ve been in a DMP with several credit cards for the last few years and, after asking for CCA’s, some have been deemed unenforceable.
Do I need to contact the unenforceable creditors and tell them specifically that I won’t be making any further payments or should I just stop paying?
Thanks in advance!
Many thanks,
Fred
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would tell them that you will not be paying unless they manage to produce the CCA at some future point (very unlikely!)
Peter says
Hi Sara
My wife has 2 old debts with debt collection agencies which we asked them to provide the CCA agreement. They advised in writing they could not find these which was about 2 years ago. We are in the process of moving house and still receive about a letter a month from each asking for us to contact them to discuss setting up payment plans which we just ignore. My question is though if we tell them our change of address to that start the clock again on statue barred?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Of course it doesn’t matter if you acknowledge the debt provided they cannot produce the CCA agreement. But I suggest you ask National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this.
David says
Hi Sarah. Last Oct you gave me great advice on CCA’s for old debts. As a result I have up to now received letters confirming that a total of £18k credit card debt is unenforceable. I also pursued a claim for a missold loan on affordabiliry and this was upheld, saving me another £7k. I am so grateful for your help and advice.
One more question if I may? I have another loan which I now realise was missold, but the debt has been sold to a collection firm and Bamboo are no longer involved. Should I write to Bamboo or the firm who bought the debt a couole of months ago? The loan was missold in July 2020.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
To Bamboo. Template here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
Bamboo often rejects good complaints or make a poor offer. They can sometimes be persuaded to increase a poor offer. Otherwise send straight to the ombudsman.
David says
Thank you Sara for the prompt reply. I will email Bamboo to start with and see how they respnd. Many thanks again.
Pipwri says
Hi Sara
I am in desperate need of some advice – I had a letter before action from Overdales solicitors (acting for Lowell) asking for payment for two old debts and a payment of £109 for Sky. They had lumped the totals together snd it is £2100.
I immediately sent a CCA request to them snd they replied a week later saying they didn’t have that info but had requested it from their client snd will send it to me when they have received. I thought that would prevent court action for now but I was wrong.
I have now got a court claim. One of the debts for £1200 is for an old JD Williams account which I had put in an affordability complaint last year. No surprise but jd williams didn’t uphold it and it’s been with FOS since October as I have appealed. In panic I phoned FOS today to fast track it snd they will look at it within the next week. I told them I’d had the letter of claim. They said they would email Overdales. Is this the right thing to have done. I’m just so upset and confused.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it is a good thing to have done but you also need to enter a defence to the claim.
Ask National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 for advice. And also post on the Legal Beagles forum for advice: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues
GH says
Hi Sara, some advice please. I have a debt that was sold to IDEM servicing originally from a Lloyd’s CC. Can’t remember exactly when the debt was sold, but can see via online banking payments go as far back as 2015. The original debt would have been for about £7500 as this was the CC limit. Every month since 2015 I’ve paid £50pm. On several occasions over the years I’ve asked for settlement figures, I’ve been told its full balance required to clear the debt.
I know I would have by now paid more than what IDEM would have purchased the debt for and last week requested a CCA agreement along with £1 payment. There is no trace of this debt on my credit file anywhere. I’m aware 12 days is the timeframe they have to produce a CCA but in reality will take longer if found.
Can you advice please on my best options with regards to me not paying the remaining balance which is still £2100 if no CCA is produced.
Has anyone here also been in the same position with IDEM?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can choose to stop paying them now and tell them you will resume payments if they find the CCA.
Or wait another couple of months before stopping paying.
Other people’s experience may not help you much – what matters is whether IDEM can retrieve this CCA from Lloyds, not whether they could find other ones.
S says
Hi GH,
“On several occasions over the years I’ve asked for settlement figures, I’ve been told its full balance required to clear the debt.”
I’ve been in a similar situation almost the same balances ‘Offer – review – decline’ seems to be idem’s review model even with an unenforcable agreement.
GH says
Hi S
Waiting to see if they can find a CCA. Have you tried to get yours?
S says
Hey GH,
Yes and I have 2 currently unenforceable debts because they can’t produce documents and they still won’t accept a reduced balance! Good luck though! S
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are the debts defaulted? if they are, just refuse to pay.
S says
Hi Sara – not paid for months, just commenting that enforceability makes no difference idem!
Paul says
Hi Sara,
I have an old debt which a CCJ was raised for and dropped off my credit file some time ago. I’m still paying token payments on the account but am wanting to wrap this up as have been doing so for years. Is requesting the CCA still relevant to make the debt unenforceable if a CCJ has already been issued and dropped off my credit file?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, once there is a CCJ the CCA is irrelevant – the creditor doesn’t even have to try to find it if you ask for it.
What is the rest of your current financial situation like? Do you have other problem debts? Any important bills you are behind on?
GH says
Hi Sara,
I posted recently about a CCA request from IDEM. Today I had a letter saying….
‘Unfortunately, we are unable to supply a copy of the Credit Agreement at present and acknowledge that until we do so the agreement cannot be enforced……….
The balance of the account is still outstanding and we will continue to pursue this debt which will include registering any arrears and defaults with the credit reference agencies…….’
Can I have your advice please? Can I stop paying this until a CCA is potentially found? There is nothing on my credit file with regards to this debt so can defaults and arrears be reported to credit reference agencies?
The original balance to IDEM was £9380 in 2010 it is now £2170 after paying £50pm the last 12yrs.
Another question if no CCA is found can I claim back payments I’ve already made as wasn’t aware until seeing this website I could request this and didn’t know if it can’t be provided the debt is not enforceable?
GH
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can stop if you want. Tell them you will resume paying if they can produce the CCA agreement.
Unfortunately you can’t claim for the payments you have already made.
Kevin says
I’ve got my letters printed and ready to send I have more than 1 debt to each creditor and have a separate letter for each of the 3 reference numbers. Will they accept a cheque for £3 or will it need to be 3 × £1.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would send 3 cheques
Kevin says
If my overdraft is covered by the cca but the debt collector doesn’t have to produce the cca is it legally enforceable for me to carry on paying this or not
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A CCA is not relevant for an overdraft. There is no point in asking for it.
M asif says
Hi ,
Link have taken me to court so its currently at the stage where i have to either pay up full or admit debt and set up payment plan or i can defend the claim . I am able to ask them to produce the cca as my defence ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you received a Claim Form from the court?
What sort of debt was this? How long is it since you made a payment to this debt, either to Link or a previous creditor?#
Have you previously asked for the CCA agreement?
And what are the rest of your finances like at the moment – is this your only problem debt or are there more that you haven’t been paying? Are you behind with any important bills?
M asif says
Yes i have received a claim form from the court
This was a credit card debt i have never made a payemnt to link
No not asked for a cca previously got some other cc behind on also but not behind on any importanat bills
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and when did you last make a payment to the card?
do you have any spare money to make an offer?
I am asking because although you can ask for the CCA, you cannot be sure they won’t be able to produce it.
It is a pity you have left it to this late stage and did not do this before when they sent you a letter Before Action.
A says
Around 2 years ago made last payment on card . Currently dont have spare money to make offer
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK then the debt can’t be “statute barred” so that is not a possible defence.
You need to submit a defence urgently – the timescales are tight for doing this.
Just asking for a CCA now will not stop the court case, you have to defend it.
I suggest you phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 asap. they will also look at the rest of your debt situation and what your alternatives are.
You can also post on the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/employment-law-issues asking for help.
shan says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for all your time, I followed a lot of your advice and I’m slowly coming out of this – God bless you
Re CCA request – For Link financial i wrote to them asking for CCA for 2 accounts , sending then 2 X £1 postal orders back in 2018.
these accounts defaulted in 2013 – and i was making payments till 2016 – ideally this is Saturate barded now – as no payment for 6 years (2016-2022)
how ever, when i call they are saying they have record of payments of £1 in 2018 – what they have done is taken those £1 as a payment, which i clearly wrote to them in the CCA letter that they should not do so. I disputed and they are coming back saying – there is no dispute – Please advice if they are allowed to take the £1 postal order with the CCA as a payment for debt – what can i do as next steps.
Regards,
Shan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk to National Debtline about this, phone 0808 808 4000.
Shan says
Thanks, just wanted to check are they allowed to assign the £1 towards the debt – Appreciate your time
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No but depending on how you worded your CCA request, that in itself may have reset the statute barred clock, as the article above says. Talk to National Debtline.
Karen says
Hi Sara
I’m slowly working through my old debts, and I think I am on the last two. I have an overdraft of £1,500 with Santander and a credit card with Santander of around £2,500. They both defaulted around 2009 I think. They are both with Hoist and I have been paying £1 a month for each for years. I was wondering if I should ask for CCA for both from Hoist? Are overdrafts treated differently? I have never looked at affordability, but I guess this would be too late as I have not got any statements from either account. Any suggestions on the best course of action please. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A CCA isn’t relevant for an overdraft. But you can Ask for one for the credit card debt.
How large are your total defaulted debts? Non defaulted ones?
Karen says
Hi Sara. Is there anything I can do about the overdraft. That’s it now. Everything else is either paid off or no CCA so I stopped paying. Provident have put what I owe them to nil.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s really old to be able to challenge affordability. The bank probably hasn’t kept any records.
You can offer Hoist a settlement offer? Could you afford that?
john says
Hello
I have 6 separate catalogue debts that total just under £12,000 and all were sold to Lowell in 2017. Up until now I have had no contact with Lowell regarding these apart from receiving the occasional letter offering discounts etc, however, they have now passed on all 6 debts to BPO Collections, and I have had the standard inital letter from them asking me to make contact. My question was regarding requesting copies of the CCA for these but I have been told that such a request is an admission of the debt and can also reset the Statute Barred clock…is this the case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes asking for the CCA will reset the statute barred clock. But it’s highly unlikely that these debts will become statute barred – Lowell know where you live, they aren’t going to just forget about them.
Dan says
Hi Sara,
NCO were chasing me regarding a CC debt with AMEX. I emailed NCO recently and asked them to provide the CCA agreement.
AMEX have sent me a secured email which contains my online application but this does not look like any agreement.
Please note:
The application provided is an Internet Application. Any information highlighted has been
provided by you at point of application and kept on record by American Express. Any other
field is either blank or relates to the card product but is not personal information.
Additionally, the section named “Sign Ind: E“ shows you agreed to the Terms and Conditions
of the account and signifies an electronic signature
It’s just a spreadsheet of data I input when applying by the looks of it. Where it says “the section named” doesn’t actually exist on the document either. What’s the best way of proceeding with this and notifying NCO it’s not the CCA(I am assuming, what do they look like?) agreement?
Again, really appreciate everything you’re doing I feel hopeful
Dan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
go back to them and say you did not ask for a copy of your application, you asked for a copy of the Consumer Credit Act Agreement.
But are you sure this is a credit card and not a charge card?
Dan says
Will do. I’m sure it’s credit card, I don’t know what a charge card is. It was a British Airways AMEX card that I wasn’t required to pay the full balance on each month, which I think a charge card does?
Congratulations and welcome – your application for the
British Airways American Express® Credit Card has been approved.
This is from the email I received when taking out the card. Was second guessing just now but that confirms it was a CC
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes. Well ask them for the CCA agreement. But unless this is incredibly old, it is likely they will be able to produce it.
It’s normally only worth asking for this if the debt has been sold.
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ for how exactly to ask for the CCA – you have to send them £1
Dan says
Yeah I asked NCO for it, they got AMEX to contact me and send me the document but it’s not the CCA agreement only the online application with no signatures or agreements attached. I opened the account with AMEX in June 16. Will see what NCO come back with. I’m not requesting the information directly with AMEX, just letting NCO request that as they bought the debt.
Amz says
Hello,
I have three accounts, one that has been passed to PRA the other to Moorcroft and the third to Westcott. They are all credit cards that were opened in 2012/2013 would it be worth sending a CCA request now?
Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you sure they have all bought the account? or are any collecting on behalf of the original lender?
Amz says
How would I know if they have bought or just acting on their behalf?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The letters/emails from the debt collector should say, although sometimes the language they use is opaque… copy it in here if you aren’t sure.
You can also check your credit records, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/. If you see a record from the debt collector for this debt, then they have bought it. If you don’t, it isn’t quite so clear as they may be collecting on behalf of the lender or they may have bought the debt but not yet updates the credit records.
Dan says
Hi Sara,
I posted above re AMEX/NCO
I followed up asking for the CCA agreement and they replied with this.
Please accept my apologies for the delayed response.
In relation to your recent Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request, please be advised that there is no signature when a card application is completed online. However, as part of the application process, a box is ticked confirming understanding of the card Terms and Conditions. A copy of these can be found directly on American Express’ website.
I hope that this has provided you with the information you require.
What’s the best way to move forward with this? Sounds very much like “you ticked a box, the terms are on the website and take our word for it”
Surely they need to produce something?
Thanks
Dan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that it is your understanding that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the CCA agreement. Ask them to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have not provided you with this.
If you don’t think you are getting anywhere when they reply, contact National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and ask them for help.
Dan says
Hi Sara
I had a reply today..
In relation to your recent Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request, please be advised that the information and explanation provided would be sufficient to fulfil your request, should you still wish to discuss this aspect further you will need to contact American Express direct on 0800 032 7292.
I hope that this has provided you with the information you require.
In the meantime I have placed your account on a 7 day hold pending your response on how you would wish to proceed going forward.
They say “it would be sufficient” but it isn’t and they still haven’t provided it. Is that what I can go back to them and say? I am not required to speak to AMEX myself they can do this right?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Daniel says
Hiya Dan,
How did you get on with this. I’ve had exactly the same thing happen.
Kind regards
Daniel
Geri says
Hi! I have six credit card accounts that are currently on a DMP – four with default dates in 2016, two 2017. They’ve each been sold on during that process, some of them twice. I want to start offering partial settlements – would it still be worth asking for the CCA to see if that gives me some leverage in making an offer? Or will it make little difference if they were relatively recent and payments were made throughout?
Five of my debts are with Link Financial, so I’m not sure how successful I would be in making a partial settlement offer on one of them, for example.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the current creditor cannot produce the CCA agreement, there is no need to make a partial settlement offer. These debts will be off your credit records this year or next year.
This is why you ask for the CCA agreement. Not to try to get leverage with partial settlement offers.
SJames says
Hi – I took your advice and asked for the CCA from a DCA pursuing me for 3 cards from ages ago totalling £13.5k in total approx. They were accounts originally opened 12-13 years ago and were defaulted 2 years ago when the pandemic started. They were then sold on to 2 or 3 DCA’s and the last one advised they were sending people to my property. I sent the request off in May and I have not heard anything since apart from acknowledgment of my request. The next thing I know is yesterday I get an alert from Credit Expert to say my file has been updated and my score has shot up. The defaults have been removed from my file and when I log into the DCA portal it now states my outstanding balance is £0.00. So does that mean they’ve given up trying to find the CCA??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I really can’t guess what has happened. I suggest you ask the creditors for a response to your CCA request.
When did you last make payments to these debts?
SJames says
Last payment was approximately 2 years 8 months ago.
Is there any value in contacting them? If this is the result then surely a line can be drawn?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can still be taken to court for a CCJ if a debt is no longer on your credit record. As you paid them only a few years ago, these debts cannot be statute barred.
Deleting the debt record or setting the balance to zero is NOT what normally happens if a creditor can’t find the CCA so you cannot assume that is why your credit record has changed.
Simon says
Hi – the online portal for Lantern shows everything closed with zero balance, however today I got some letters from the original credit card company (Creation) stating the balance needs payment. So it looks like Creation have clawed the accounts back to themselves.
Do I send the CCA request to them now? Or do I say to them I requested it from Lantern previously? Or do I wait for them to reassign it to another DCA and then request the CCA again? Surely they can’t enforce payment whilst my original CCA request is outstanding?!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Had you made a complaint to Creation about these debts?
If not, you should consider an affordability complaint about them, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/
You can now ask creation for the CCAs. They are more likely to be able to produce them than Lantern were, but as the accounts are pretty old it’s possible they may not be able to find them.
Simon says
Thanks for the reply. If I asked Lantern for the CCA’s, and they told me they had to ask the original lender (Creation) for this and this couldn’t be done (and the account seemingly sent back to Creation) surely I don’t need to ask for the CCA as Creation will already be aware that a request exists?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, it is possible that when Lantern bought the debt it was on a condition that they did not go back to the original lender for further information.
If you want Creation to be barred from taking action against you, you have to ask them for the CCA agreement. And it’s possible they may find it. Or they may not.
Simon says
Ok. Seems odd as they specifically told me they had to ask Creation for the information. Why would they do that if they couldn’t ask for the information?
I have emailed Lantern to ask as to the status of my original request. I’ll come back here when I have further info.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They would have had to ask Creation for the information. That doesn’t mean they actually did that.
Even if they did ask for this, you still need to ask Creation yourself. A creditor is only barred from taking you to court if you had asked the creditor to produce the CCA and they failed. A request to another creditor is irrelevant.
Have you read the artcile about affordability complaints?
Simon says
Ok thanks for the explanation. Seems a little daft on their part to just not respond to me altogether and just pass it back to Creation. The accounts are about 14 years old so I’ll ask Creation for the CCA’s.
I do have an affordability complaint all typed up and ready to go. I want to see if they can produce the CCA’s first….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Seems a little daft on their part to just not respond to me altogether and just pass it back to Creation.
It’s unusual. That was why I asked if you had already made an affordability complaint.
I suggest you send in the affordability complaint now. these things are slow. I see no reason to delay.
Joanne says
Hi Sara
I had been in touch before about an old debt I had it was a Sainsburys loan taken out in 2010 . It is now with Intrum but Westcot acting on their behalf. On your advice I asked back in April this year for a copy of my credit agreement , Westcot kept coming back and forth saying it was with Intrum and they kept fobbing me off until I got a letter today from Westcot saying Intrum have finally come back saying the credit agreement is unavailable . Just wondering what I should do now I am currently in a DMP with Stepchange and this is my biggest creditor.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then the debt is unenforceable in court. I suggest you tell Westcot you won’t be paying it unless the CCA can be produced. And explain to StepChange that you want the debt removed from your DMP.
I assume this debt is no longer on your credit record?
Joanne Boyce says
Yes it’s no longer on my credit report. Do I need to email Westcot and tell them I am not paying unless they produce the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would tell them but don’t wait for a reply. Tell StepChange now.
Mr R says
Hi Sarah. I have followed your advice re cca request. Moorcroft and Arrow have not produced the cca but have stated ‘please note that certain accounts are excluded from compliance with Part V of the Consumer Credit Act or are not in fact credit or hire agreements and we believe that our clients account falls in to one of these categories’
I have challenged this and it looks to be a scare tactic only. I am now waiting on confirmation that the debt is not enforceable as they cannot find the cca.
The other one is with Lowell’s for an old Studio catalogue debt. They have only sent a generic Studio Cca. What crucial information should be on the cca for it to be valid?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt was the Arrow account?
The studio debt, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#How_can_you_tell_if_it_is_right
Mr R says
Hi Sarah. I have spoken with Lowell’s today who state that the below is incorrect and does not apply.
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
your name and address when the account was opened;
the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
All they have sent is a generic cca, no name date etc.
The Arrow/Moorcroft debt was a Credit Card.
Thanks again but what should I do? I think both parties here are at best incorrect or worse deliberately misleading.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about Lowell’s response.
If the Arrow debt was a credit card then a CCA agreement does apply – it only doesn’t for an overdraft.
Mr R says
Hi Sarah.
I have requested the CCA back in April. The debt is with Arrow via Moorcroft and they still haven’t provided it nor confirmed that until they do the debt is unenforceable. Should I escalate this to the FSOS? Do you think it likely after this length of time they will be able to provide it? The original c/card debt dated back to 2007. Thank you as ever for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you stopped paying the arrow debt?
Mr R says
No, but I want to.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you stop paying and tell them you will restart if they produce the CCA. No point in going to FOS about this.
James says
Hi a ccj I have is due to dropp off my credit file today after 6 years. I have asked Cabot financial for CCA. But they are saying as it’s gone to court they don’t have to send it to me. 1. Do they have to send me this.2. the debt is outstanding no action has been taken over the 6 years only what was agreed at £1 per month. Still outstanding where do I stand
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1. No. See the section in the above article headed Court action and CCJs
2. It will be harder for them to enforce the debt as after 6 years they have to go back to court to get permission to enforce. Contact National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 for help if they ask you to make a payment.
jibran says
Hi, I have some very old debts ( more then 12 years ) where I am paying the debt companies very small money like £1 and £2.
I have tried to offer full and final settlement to some of 20% but they are not accepting it. I recently came across about requesting CCA, I have already request from couple via webchat, is this enough as evidence or should I send a formal letter? I do have others where I have yet to contact them.
All of these are off from my credit report while ago, irony is that I am going for DMP again with my new creditors and want to close these very old debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you had a reply to the webchat request?
Jibran says
Hi, just requested today, i am wondering do i have to officialy send a letter or request via web chat is fine.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh I would send a real letter using the template linked to in the article above.
Jibran says
Ok thank you, I will do.
Unfortunately I am planning to go with DMP with my current creditors as well, stepchange saying that it is hard for creditor to agree if DMP is longer then 10 years however i can only afford £200 at the moment on £36k debt. I have no plan to keep it longer then 10 years as I will have salary increase and may be some funds available along the line. Not sure what to do, dont want to go IVA route because of my job and also house also I dont like the sound of IVA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When does your current mortgage fix end?
CJ says
Hi, is there a letter template you can reply with when your creditor sends you a statement but no credit agreement and just says we await your response rather than sending the letter saying we can’t find a credit agreement and can’t chase the debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. Just reply that you have asked for the CCA agreement not just a statement and you understand the debt is currently unenforceable as they haven’t sent you it.
CJ says
Hi Sara, so at the second time of asking they have found a credit agreement. I have two questions, is there somewhere I can go to check it is an OK agreement. It seems strange it has just turned up, though looks legot, or they’ve done a good job making one. Secondly, I have a payment breakdown until a certain point, the balance then says 0 and write off. There is no mention of payments made to collectors later and I also believe we may have jade PPi repayments they allocated straight to the loan obviously as we weren’t in credit. Should these all be mentioned too and should I see these? If statement says 0 balance and write off does this affect anything? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the article above for what to do if you are unsure it is correct.
Who have you asked, the original lender? or a debt collector that has bought the debt?
CJ says
It was Moorcroft, they’ve asked Lloyd’s. I’m unsure of what the payment breakdown means and if it is enough? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was this account really old? pre 2007?
are moorcroft asking you to pay the debt?
Cj says
Moorcroft are asking, according to the agreement it was 2014. I guess lloyds have sold it on and then on again? Just confusing when they have write off and O on payment schedule in 2015, and nothing mentioned of subsequent payments to a different collector I think hubby had set up and nothing about the PPA refunds.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
let me come back to the beginning to get some facts clearer.
Moorcroft normally collect a debt on behalf of a creditor. The letters from Moorcroft should make it clear if they now own the debt. Or if they are collecting on behalf of another creditor. Can you have a look at these letters and find out?
How much do Moorcroft say you owe?
The statement produces was from lloyds? and it covered the period 2014-2015 when it looks like the debt was set to zero. That may well have been when the debt was sold – is it right that you defaulted on this debt very soon after it was opened?
CJ says
Hi, I can’t find the first Moorcroft one, still looking as I know I have it. But I have a letter dated 2018 sayinh LC Asset has appointed Link financial to service the account on LC Assets behalf. The letter says sale balance 8972.60.
I believe my hubby may have then set up small payments. These were stopped I think in 2019.
The Moorcroft letters refer to their client and getting the documents and information from their client. The statement from Lloyd’s only covers Dec 14 until Mar 2015 when it then seems to be written off.
Credit agreement dated Dec 2103.
Happy to send images if this helps. It is very confusing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what date is the Moorcroft letter you have?
Who did you ask to provide the CCA agreement, Moocroft? LC Asset?
CJ says
Moorcroft wrote to me in Oct 22, I then replied and asked for CCA, they sent me a printout of payments from Lloyd’s. I replied saying I wanted the CCA otherwise debt unenforceable. It was Moorcroft I asked as they seem to have taken debt over from LC Assets. They said they would ask client and then sent one through.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok then in your next email to Moorcroft, ask them who the client is.
Also reply that you would like a full statement of account, showing all the payments made to the debt include the PPI refunds.
Jibran says
Ends in Nov 25, however I will be happy to stay with same lender with new fixed deal when time comes.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
But you may not be happy with the new rate. You need to find ways to speed up debt repayments.
Jibran says
Ok but it wont impact my house right? Baggers cant be choosers as long as new fixed rate from existing lender is better then variable rate, i am fine.
Can you please advice if lenders will be happy to agreed plan motre then 10 years long.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My point is that if the new mortgage rate is more than your current one, you will have to cut what you are paying to the DMP, possibly by a lot.
I don’t think this “over 10 years” is a rule that many lenders apply, but the question is whether a long DMP whic may get longer if your mortgage rate goes up is sensible.
Jibran says
I understand it, however it is not expiring until Dec 25, I am confident that I have atleast 2 payrise until then , so I confident if not more, I will be able to afford what I will be paying now, under given situation obviously we are not sure of interest rate of late 2025.
At this moment I have two main issues.
1- Very old creditors now with DCA now, if they cannot provide CCA, I can stop them pay and ask them to either provide CCA or settled at very low level like 5% to close it?
2- I will not include these on my current DMP, is it ok to pay £200 in DMP for debt of £36k? that’s the maximum I Can afford now, but I am confident that I will have some lum sum along the way of DMP and payrise more then inflation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1. Yes ask them to produce the CCA agreements.
2. As I said, I don’t think creditors follow the “max 10 year” rule. Your problem is that a long DMP isn’t a good idea for you and although you are hoping for pay rises you may find your other expenses go up and in 2025 your mortgage will.
dengard says
I have been paying my creditors approx £5 a month (5)creditors, I asked each one for a CCA all of them cannot comply(they are owned by DCA)and 4of the 5 have said. the debt is unenforceable etc etc.So I have stopped paying them and advised them I would be doing this until they comply with CCA. I accept the debt will still exist, all the debts are over 14 years old. Am I ok doing this??????
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do the debts still show on your credit record?
dengard says
Sara. many thanks, the Debts do not show on any credit file they are all PRE2009 and dropped off around 2015.
As I am not paying the companies all DCAs who own the debts and have advised them accordingly.
Is there any method they can use such as a Letter of Intent?
thanks
dengard
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you mean a Letter Before Claim/Action? If you get on3, reply asking them to produce the CCA agreement.
dengard says
Sara….thank you…. Sorry “Letter before claim.” So should this happen it is simply a matter of reverting to “produce the CCA agreement” so unless they can provide the agreement back to Unenforceable.
Many thanks
Dengard
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes
CJ says
Thanks for your help 😀
Jibran says
Thank you Sara for your help, so what other option do I have other than DMP? IVA is not really possible for me.
Are we not expecting mortgage rates to come down by 2025?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What is your current mortgage rate?
Jibran says
2.79% fixed till Nov 25.
I expect an income increase of at least £800 a month( net) by 25.
Another option I was thinking, if after a few years, I can raise some funds and offer the full and final but reduced payment to settle the debts, I definitely don’t want these to linger on more than five years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I really doubt your will get a mortgage that cheap in late 2025. It’s not impossible but I do think you should plan on that basis.
How would you “raise the funds” as you won’t be able to borrow except at a horrible rate…
I’m not saying you have a better option than a DMP at the moment, but I am suggesting that it may get very difficult if your mortgage rate goes up, so the faster you can clear debt the better.
jibran says
Hi,
Thank you for your help Sara.
So when I say raise the funds, I meant by any bonus I may get, also I have some collectible coins which I may sell at right time. My main goal is to clear the DMP before end of 25 if it is possible with full and final settlement even if it is 50%, I have total debt of around £36k and someone owes me £15K ( this is one of main reason I am in this current situation)
Darren says
Sara
I have written to many of my creditors currently in a DMP and most (nearly all) cannot provide the CCA, however 1 company Hoist are claiming because I have been paying the debt I am admitting liability, does this mean anything? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it doesn’t. You are not saying the debt isn’t yours. Yo7 are not saying it is statute barred, you are saying that until they can produce a true copy of the CCA agreement, the debt is unenforceable.
Darren says
Thank you, you are most helpful. They seem to be trying all manner of scare tactics
Nicholas says
Hi. I have a debt going back to 2005 originally with Lloyds. It has been sold on twice and is now with Hoist (has been with them for approx this last year). Hoist have sent me, on request, an emailed attachment showing a copy of the original CCA. They have also, today, sent me a copy of “Transactions” (a list of dates with no amounts printed on it, dated from 2008 – 2018). I had asked them for a statement of account as per your letter template, and they have replied (with that copy of “Transactions” attached to that email) that the statements are unavailable from Lloyds and cannot be produced.
Is this a failure by them to produce what is necessary regarding the debt, and does that mean I can suggest to Hoist that it is unenforceable?
Thanks
Nick
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the section in the article above on How can you tell if it is right? – that also applies to the Statement.
Does this show the dates of payments you have been making to the account? If you are unsure, talk to National Debtline.
Nicholas says
Hi. Thanks for your reply. What HOIST sent me as an email attachment under the heading “Transactions”, shows a few A4 sheets with the same table on each sheet. Each column of the table has a heading – they are: “LOADED DM” (in the column under this it shows a date), then “LOADED HOST” (this one also shows dates in the column under), then “POSTING CATEGORY CODE” (that just has the word “PAY” repeated in the column under), then “TRANSACTION TYPE CODE” (with the number “678” repeated in the column under), and in the final column it’s headed “DESCRIPTION” (it just repeats “PAYMENT FROM MOORCROFT”, who were the previous collection agency, in the column under that). The table doesn’t show any payment amounts or dates of any payments I have made. And it only goes from 2008 – 2018 (I have been paying monthly up to 2021/22). That’s it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you reply saying that you don’t think the current balance is accurate which is why you have asked for the statement and so you want to see how it has been calculated.
T says
Hi Sara,
The above talks about if the debt has been sold, what about a virgin credit card (taken out in Jan 2014) that was originally administered by MBNA but then administered by Virgin from March 2015 (I believe Virgin bought a big batch of Credit Cards). Is it likely they would be able to provide the original agreement?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry I don’t know. Have you defaulted on this debt?
T says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for the speedy reply. No, not defaulted but hope to soon before entering a DMP. They have just rejected a complaint about irresponsible lending which has now gone to FOS but just wondered if it was worth submitting a CCA request given it changed hands.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well I suggest you wait until it has been in the DMP a while and hopefully gets sold. There is no hurry here – you want the debt defaulted so it will drop off your credit record. Just being unenforceable if they cant produce the CCA doesn’t mean it is removed from your credit record.
T says
Thanks again. Assuming if I request it too early even if it was sold they would have it to hand or wouldnt that matter?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is hard to tell.
But there are no advantages to asking for this before the debt is defaulted. And not may reasons to rush into this rather than wait for a year or two and see if it is sold.
Mike_p says
I have a Virgin credit card which I took out in 2010 when it was administered by MBNA and subsequently transferred to Virgin. I made a CCA request to Virgin in March and I’m still waiting for a response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Interesting! have you had any response at all? Are you still making payments?
Mike_p says
I had a response in November apologising for the delay and saying they had enclosed the information they had, which was just the current terms and conditions and my most recent statement. They said they would send the rest as soon as they could so I’ll wait and see if it actually turns up.
I stopped paying in June but annoyingly they still haven’t defaulted the account despite having been in a debt management plan since June last year.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this isnt included in your DMP any more?
Send them a complaint and ask them to add a default. And ask for it to be backdated to the start of the DMP as well. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
Mike_p says
No it’s not in the DMP now, I’m managing it myself now and have stopped paying them.
I’ve sent them a complaint asking them to apply a backdated default so I’ll see how that goes.
T says
Interesting Mike, have you stopped paying or just waiting for the time being?
James B says
I’d like a little bit of advice please.
Lowell have been in contact regarding an overdraft debt, it was defaulted in April 2006. However they have sent me a letter offering 50% discount if I agree to pay in 12 installments. I’m just wondering, why they would be offering a discount. I’ve had no contact with Lowell for the past 5+ years and the recent letters are are out of the blue. Could they not have the correct information to enforce the debt so they are trying a last ditch attempt to get something? Would a CCA would be a good idea to request?
The offer is only valid until tomorrow. Any advice would be much appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when did you last make a payment to this?
CCAs are not relevant for overdrafts.
what other debts do you have that you haven’t been paying? can you actually afford the 50% or will that make it hard to get through January without borrowing more?
James B says
I last made a payment in November 2016 to the overdraft with the bank. I have not had any dealing with Lowell at all. (CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS MESSAGE – DEFAULTED IN APRIL 2017)
I do not have any other debts, but I would realistically struggle to pay the £90+ per month (for 12 months) they are offering. I could however afford 20 – 25% lump sum to settle it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 to see if they think this may be statute barred, but as it only defaulted in April 2017 that is unlikely. National Debtline could also talk you through working out what a safe amount to offer monthly is. You do not want to offer too much, especially with energy prices going up again in April.
They are offering the discount now to try to get some money out of you. When they first bought the debt they probably thought it was a better to wait a while and see if your finances would improve. But they don’t want to wait until the debt is statute barred.
I don’t know if they would take a lower settlement offer now.
James B says
Thanks for your advice.
In your experience, with it being an overdraft debt what is the likelihood of this being followed up and taken to court to process a CCJ? Would a CCJ have a more negative impact than a debt that is Partially Settled on my credit rating?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“with it being an overdraft debt what is the likelihood of this being followed up and taken to court to process a CCJ?”
if you don’t settle it or make a payment arrangement you are very likely to end up with a CCJ.
“Would a CCJ have a more negative impact than a debt that is Partially Settled on my credit rating?”
A CCJ will wreck your credit record for 6 more years.
Partially settled does not affect your credit score at all – it is a flag that a lender can see. But this debt and the partial settlement flag will drop off your credit record totally after 6 years from the default date, so April 2023.
James B says
Thank you for that Sara, much appreciated.
Alan T says
Hi Sara,
I owed around £11000 to Barclaycard for a credit card around 2012. I asked for a reduction in payment which they agreed to but sold the debt to Link. The account was defaulted but this came off my credit report at least 4 years ago. I have been paying £1 per month but wrote to Link with a CCA letter. They replied back stating they can not find the original credit agreement. I have carried on paying the £1 per month but it has been 3 months since Link sent me a letter confirming they can’t produce the credit agreement. Should I now stop paying the £1 per month?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That was the reason you asked for the CCA agreement wasn’t it? To be able to stop paying them?
Alan T says
Yes correct after viewing this website. Just wanted to make sure it’s safe to stop payments now. Many thanks for all your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well they may produce the CCA later, but if they do you just start paying again.
Alan Tranter says
Quick update. Since I called Link to explain I am stopping my DD until they produced the original CCA they have tried to call me 4 times. When I answered the last call she did not know what the call was about until I passed security. She then read the notes and tried to make me set up a payment plan. I declined and told her they are not allowed to keep phoning me as the debt was unenforceable.
I said to stop all the hassle I will offer a one off payment of £500 for full and final settlement. They replied with 24 hours declining my offer but offered around £2200. Should I go back to decline the offer or just ignore them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you haven’t told them in writing why you aren’t paying?
If it was me, I would email them repeating that you will not be paying them as the debt is unenforceable.
Start keeping a record of how many times they contact you and if they tell you in each contact that the debt is unenforceable (as they should).
Rachel says
Hi Sarah, I have recently received a solicitors letter who are working on behalf of link, they are chasing a barclay card dept of over £4000. I did have a barclaycard years ago 2012 but I think the credit limit was around £1500. I am sure I paid this money off but now I am questioning if i did or not for this huge amount to land on my doorstep. I contacted the solicitors and said that I do not recognise this dept. They then said that would contact Barclays to get the CCA. I only received a statement from Feb 2018- july 2018 which was just interest rates and saying £4000 credit limit. No spending or anything. They then left me a voicemail around 2 weeks later asking to call them. When I called they said that a payment was made to the credit card in Jan 2018 but for some reason that month was not on these statements. Also the solicitor informed me that the CCA could not be found and advised me to contact the police if this debt isn’t mine, then asked me to go back to them with a crime reference number. I’m not sure what to do here
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the CCA cannot be found, the debt is unenforceable.
You may as well report this to Action Fraud, https://reporting.actionfraud.police.uk/. That will generate a crime reference number.
The tell the solicitors the crime reference number and repeat that you still do not recognise the debt, you did not make any payments to in in 2018, and you will not be making any payments to it until the CCA agreement can be produced.
Rachel says
Thank you very much! I’m worried that I may have only paid some of my debt off the credit card and forgot about the rest. I don’t want to get into trouble for reporting fraud when it potentially isnt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well a debt of under 1500 can’t have grown into 4k. Either your memory is badly wrong or they have the wrong person. Or it could have been identity theft, in which case it is fraud. But as you say, you have no idea – that is the purpose of producing the CCA agreement – with those details you have a much better chance of saying – that isnt me because of x,y,z. ,
You don’t have to report it to Action Fraud if you don’t want. You can just reply that you have no recollection of this debt and until they produce the CCA agreement it is unenforceable and you will not be paying it.
Georgina says
Hi Sara,
I was wondering what your thoughts were with this scenario.
Credit card debt with Vanquis. Original account opened in 2014. Debt was sold to Lowell in 2017. No payments have been made to Lowell although I have been keeping them up to date with financial statements advising I can’t pay. Lowell then put the account on hold for 90 days. Obviously the account is not statute barred as I have been keeping them informed of my circumstances. I wondered what your thoughts are in respect of asking for the credit agreement due to the length of time that has passed now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are your financial circumstances likely to change?
Georgina says
No, unfortunately not.
I send them an up to date financial statement every 3 months and the account is then put on hold for another 3 months.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can I ask if this because of health problems?
Georgina says
Yes and also the cost of living increase. All my priority bills are up to date.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case I would be more inclined to ask for a write off of the debt if you can provide medical evident that your health is not likely to improve. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/
Georgina says
Thank you for the information.
Debs says
Hello, great website very informative so thank you!
I had 1 default which has passed 6 years and has been removed from the credit files and I can now be eligible for high street credit cards etc which is great!
I am thinking of doing down the CCA route for one credit card which was sold to a debt purchaser. Opened 2011, defaulted 2016, sold to PRA 2019.
My question is, now the record has gone, If I request the CCA will pra do a live search on my credit report and therefore show up on my credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They should not do a hard search as you are not applying for credit.
S says
Hi. I defaulted on an unsecured loan with tesco in nov 2017. The debt has been passed to Lowell. They have offered a 70% discount if i pay within 12 months but these payments would be just under £550 a month. I want to clear it but the payment amount will be a struggle. I’m thinking of asking for a CCA, should I set up a payment plan with them first? I’m worried as the 6 year default date is coming up they may escalate and I want to avoid a ccj and take advantage of the discount if I am eligible to pay the debt. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What are the rest of your finances like? Would £550;a month be a bit of o push or is it unrealistic with prices continuing to rise?
What other problem debts do you have – any other old ones you haven’t been paying? Any newer ones or arrears on bills?
The Tesco loan, when did you take It out? Was it a struggle from the start or was it fine until something went badly wrong with your life in 2017?
S says
I took it out in nov 2016 under pressure from my ex. I already had a 10k loan with my bank at the time, plus overdrafts, credit cards. Not long after I took the loans I went from employed to self employed and then my mental health deteriorated so I wasn’t working at all. My ex left and then other debts cropped up, he had a rental in my name which he crashed, parking tickets in my car etc. I’ve paid off all those, the 10k loan and 4 credit cards.
I currently have 2k overdraft, 3 credit cards (total £3000) and benefit overpayment debts I have payment plans for. I’m actually earning a decent wage for the first time in my life now, but as I got the job mid tax year hmrc have said I need to pay back all the help I received from them (total £3500).
My credit file shows Lowell to have 3 debts for me, the 21k they have offered the payment plan for, £4500 for catalogue debt (my ex ordered stuff and never paid it) and £900 I’m not sure what is for. There is also £600 for another company I’m not sure what it’s for. Ive only had contact about the 21k and worried when I call to set the payment plan up they will want plans for the other debts too.
The £550 a month plus all my other bills, debts, rent etc will leave me with around £100 a month. I’m a single parent with 3 children.
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
£100 a month? to pay for food, kids clothes etc?
S says
I included food in my budget, but at a reduced cost, so I usually spend around £200 per week, I’m going to have to cut back to £100 per week. I have 2 cats as well.
The budget doesn’t include clothing, car insurance (since I paid that for the year), car maintenance, school trips etc
I’m going to have to work overtime.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then £550 isnt remotely possible. And you can’t just set up a payment plan for one debt, or what will you do when you get asked to pay the next one?
You have to budget for car maintenance, school costs, kids clothes. And saving up the money for the next years car insurance.
£100 a week for an adult, 3 children and 2 cats sounds a lot too little, especially if that include toiletries, cleaning stuff etc.
Are you renting privately? is the rent likely to increase?
S says
I’m in a council place. I pay £550 a month, I had 2 increases last year and rent will increase again this year.
Tbh I haven’t thought about the other debts, just that the 21k is being reduced to 6.5k and I have no idea how I’m supposed to pay it all off but would rather pay the 6.5 than the full amount. Lowell said I have until 3rd feb to set up a plan with them to get the reduced cost.
I guess my plan was deal with this one and cross the bridge of the others ones when they come up. My mental health isn’t the greatest and this is really stressing me out. I just don’t know how to approach it. Lowell haven’t contacted me about the other 2 debts I have with them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Most council rents are likely to go up 7% in 2023.
Energy goes up again by 20% in April but may start to drop slowly in the second half of the year.
Most broadband and mobile contracts will be going up by 9-14.5% in April (even if you are in the middle of a contract).
How much is your car worth? or is it on finance? I assume it is essential?
S says
Car is old, maybe worth a couple of grand at most, also essential as I work 24hr shifts and public transport would take at bare minimum an hour for me to get to work. Out of hours would be way longer using night buses etc
Also 2 of my kids have medical issues, one diagnosed, one on waiting list to be diagnosed, diagnosed kid has potentially life threatening illness so also need car just in case I need to rush him to hospital.
Only non essential bills I have would be steaming services like Netflix and Disney plus but I don’t have sky or use normal tv channels at all so I don’t pay for anything like that or tv licence as we don’t use it. That’s £20 a month. Also gym membership which is £40 a month I’ve debated giving up but kind of need it for my sanity.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Very sorry to hear about the kids health issues on top of all of this.
I think you should talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your full situation. As you are in social housing and the car isn’t worth more than a couple of thousand, your most sensible option may be bankruptcy to put all this lot behind you and get a clean start, including the tax bill and benefit overpayment debts.
You may have to make monthly payments for three years in bankruptcy but they are flexible so it your rent goes up 80 a month the payments drop by 80 a month. And you are allowed sensible amounts for groceries, clothes, kids costs, etc
Agreeing to this 550 would be a disaster. It sounds as though you would struggle for a few months and then not manage it all so you would never get the write off.
S says
Really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to reply to me. Thank you for the advice, il give them a ring.
lisa says
Hi. I have various large Credit Cards debts. They all defaulted 4 years ago. I made some minimal payments and then stopped. I have just received a Letter of Claim from Kearns Solicitors with Link Financial Outsourcing being appointed to administer and recover the debt.
The letter states “we would like to taker his opportunity to confirm that the original agreement was incepted on 12/12/1997, the original creditor being Barclaycard plc, if required you may request a copy of the original agreement”
I took this account out in 1997 which was many years ago. I will, of course, ask for the CCA, but do you think they are bluffing? I really don’t want a CCJ so just weighing up my options of whether to offer token payments. Should I also now ask the other companies for a CCA or wait for them to contact me.
I note they only state they have “the original agreement” and not the CCA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though this is not court papers but a Letter Before Claim/Action as described in this article: https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/
Assuming that is correct:
How large is this debt and how large are the other 3?
What is your current financial situation like and is it likely to improve? are you buying or renting?
I think they are following a standard letter. Many people will just ignore it. They probably hope you will.
You should definitely ask for the CCA (the link I gave describes how) and reply within the time. They cannot then start court action until 30 days after they send it to you. If they do send it to you, and it looks correct, you can then offer a monthly payment.
I note they only state they have “the original agreement” and not the CCA.
well see what they send.
T says
Hi Sara,
I did a CCA request which virgin signed for on the 13th January and have also cashed the £1 cheque which shows as a payment on my account. I have not heard anything from them which I believe puts the account in default. Are they allowed to continue to add interest etc without complying with the request or is it just a case that it’s currently unenforceable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you give some of the background to this – have you stopped paying them? how old is the account, is it a credit card?
T says
Thanks Sara, yes it’s a credit card taken out in 2014. I stopped paying around October time but submitted the cca in January.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When you stopped paying, did you tell them who and ask them to freeze interest?
Is this your only problem debt?
T says
Morning Sara,
I have a few credit cards and a loan which I realised in October had all got too much and I needed to sort everything out. Having read around I decided to stop payment for all and look to enter a DMP once each defaulted. I have also put in complaints which are currently with the FOS. I have not contacted any creditor as I understand they are more likely to try and help (AP markers) rather than default me. As the Virgin card was originally with MBMA I decided to do a CCA on the off chance they couldnt provide.
I’ve not been able to find any information about interest once you stop paying after a CCA request has not been supplied.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’ve not been able to find any information about interest once you stop paying after a CCA request has not been supplied.
That is because whether they can produce the CCA has NOTHING to do with whether they stop adding interest.
T says
Ok, thanks. If they are in default for not supplying the CCA, should the monthly statement now make reference to the debt not being enforceable or am I again clutching at straws?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think this is very early to get your hopes up that the CCA will not be found. Just sit back and wait.
Andrew says
Dear Sara,
My credit card was defaulted back in 2021 and was bought by Link Financial. I have not made any payments to them and after a couple of months, I sent them the following request under the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974 (sections 77-79) along with a £1 postal order:
“Please send me a copy of my credit agreement and a full breakdown of my account, including any interest or charges added. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account when I request it. I have enclosed a payment of £1, which is the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I understand that a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days, and that creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with my request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account.”
However, they have not responded to my request. I have noticed in one of the statements they regularly sent me that they have a record of a payment of £1 and they deducted £1 from my outstanding balance.
Is this against the law? If so, what should I do?
Many thanks,
Andrew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when did you send this request to Link?
Are you still paying them?
Andrew says
I sent this request in May 2022.
No, I am not paying them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you email them and say you have not yet had a reply to your letter in May 2022 asking for a copy of the CCA agreement. You note they have cashed the 31 cheque you supplied and you are unsure why they have credited this to your account, and you wuld like them to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have not sent you a copy of the agreement.
Andrew says
Many thanks Sara.
I really appreciate your help.
Andrew says
Hi Sara, I finally received the CCA agreement from Link. It consists my previous addresses without any signature(which I believe is not necessary?). They mention that the debt is now enforceable.
1- How can I make sure the CCA they sent me is 100% legit ?
2- My friends and family are helping me to settle the debt. From the comments, I noticed it’s very difficult to deal with link. In your experience with Link, how likely they accept 10-15 percent of the debt as a full and final settlement offer?
Many thanks
Andrew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1. there is a section in the article above about how to check what you have been sent.
2. What Link are prepared to accept will depend on your circumstances – how much are you paying them at the moment? Are you likely to be able to increase this in future?
Andrew says
Dear Sara, thank you for your reply. (1a) Regrading the CCA agreement, for only one account, Link has sent me several CCA agreements with my previous addresses on each of them. (I have moved a few times in the past few years). So basically, they put address A on one agreement and address B on another agreement, etc.. Can they do that? (1b) as the account was opened years ago, how is it possible to check if the CCA agreement they sent me is the same agreement with the same terms and conditions when the account was opened? (2) I am not paying link any monthly payments at the moment. I offered them 15% to settle the account and they have rejected it. I don’t think I can increase it in the near future.
Many thanks,
Andrew
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1a & b – talk to National Debtline or post on the Legel beagles forum about this
2. then carry on paying them whatever the current monthly payment is and repeat your offer in a years time