A creditor has to send a Letter Before Claim before they take you to court for a debt in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
This letter may be headed something like Letter Before Action or Notice of Pending Legal Action or even Letter of Claim. You can tell if you have been sent one of these as there will be various attachments including one headed Reply Form.
This letter is part of the Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims rules, that were introduced in 2017. Here is National Debtline’s factsheet on these rules.
When you get this letter, you have the right to ask for more details and to take debt advice before it goes to court.
Getting more information will help you find out if you have a good defence to a CCJ.
Don;t ignore this letter in the hope that the lender will go away. If you do not respond, the next letter you will get is likely to be a Court Form.
Even if you have never heard of it or you have no money to pay it, it is still better – easier, quicker and less stressful – to dispute this NOW and not defend a case in court. If you aren’t sure what to do, talk to a good debt adviser. Phone National Debtline – they can help you look at your options and you may be suitable for a Debt Breathing Space which would give you a period of 60 days to look at your situation during which time a creditor can’t take you to court.
Contents
What debts does this cover?
The new Debt Protocol must be used by any business who is taking an individual, including someone who is self-employed, to the County Court claiming payment of a debt.
It applies to all unsecured loans, credit cards and catalogues, overdrafts, utility and mobile bills, and parking tickets from privately run car parks. It also applies to less standard situations – if you are being sued by a builder, or by a landlord for example because they say you owe them money.
It does not apply to:
- “government debts” such as council tax arrears and parking tickets from the council;
- an individual who wants to sue a business or another person;
- anything which is covered by a different Protocol such as mortgage arrears.
What must be in the Letter Before Claim/Action
The new Letter Before Claim/Action has to be sent by the creditor before court action is started. You can check yours is in the right format against the official version here: Pre Action Protocol (PAP) for Debt Claims.
It includes:
- a cover letter from the creditor. This doesn’t have set words but it has to include certain information, see below.
- a Statement of Account for the debt. This may be left out if the details are given in the cover letter.
- an Information Sheet.
- a Reply Form. See below for how to complete this.
- a Financial Statement.
What the cover letter has to say
- the amount owed
- if interest and charges are being added;
- details about the written agreement (its date and who the parties were) if there was one. It should also say that you can ask for a copy of the agreement – more about this below;
- if the debt has been assigned (that’s legal jargon for “sold”), the letter should give the date of the assignment and who it was assigned to;
- if you are making payments, or have offered payments, the letter should explain why a court claim is being considered.
If it doesn’t look right…
If something is missing or isn’t using the right words, contact National Debtline (see below) as soon as possible. Also do this if you are sent a Claim Form for a debt and they haven’t sent you the Letter Before Claim described here.
Section 1 of the Reply Form – Do you owe the money?
This sounds a simple question but it isn’t… although you may have borrowed some money what matters is whether the creditor can win a legal case.
There is a lot of legal protection for consumers. The creditor has to be able to prove his case and have taken action within the time the law says. So look at the possible defences below and don’t end up with a CCJ if it’s not necessary!
There are four boxes – only tick one:
- Box A – I agree I owe the debt. Only tick this if none of the possible defences below apply.
- Box B – I owe some of the debt, but not all of it. Tick this if none of the possible defences apply AND you are sure of the numbers and don’t need advice – otherwise go for Box C.
- Box C – I don’t know whether I owe the debt. This lets you ask for more information and gives extra time to take advice.
- Box D – I dispute the debt. Tick this if you are sure exactly why you dispute the debt, otherwise go for Box C.
“But I don’t want court costs to be added”
All you need to do at this stage is ask for extra information and then think whether to talk to an advisor. When you know the facts, you can choose to pay the debt (or offer a monthly amount) if you want. At this point court costs will not have been added. I’m not encouraging you to take a Claim to court unless you have a reasonable chance of winning!
“I’m scared of going to court”
Court is a long way off (unless you ignore this form). There is a section on the Reply Form for you to ask for more information. If you do this, the creditor may decide not go to court eg if they can’t find the written agreement for your old catalogue debt.
“I can’t risk a CCJ!”
This is not a reason to just pay the money now … if you ask for more information, the case may never come to court. If it does, you may win. Even if you lose in court, the CCJ will disappear completely from your credit record if you pay it within a month. Don’t be bullied into paying something that isn’t right because you are worried about your credit record.
Possible defences
Read all of these, you may have more than one defence. You don’t have to choose “the best one”, you can increase your chance of winning by using all the ones that apply to you.
You never owed this money
Don’t ignore this Letter Before Claim even if you know the debt isn’t yours … it is better to sort this out now and stop it ever getting to court. So tick Box D and say why you never owed this money. “I have never had a contract with Vodafone”, “I sold the car before the date of the parking ticket” etc, use a separate sheet if necessary. Also complete section 3 as you may want to take debt advice and ask the creditor to supply a copy of the written agreement in section 4.
The amount is wrong
If you are confident of your numbers, tick Box B (or D if you have repaid the whole debt, including interest and charges). Otherwise tick Box C for more information because you need a complete Statement of Account for the debt showing interest, charges and your payments and also the written agreement.
The debt may be statute barred
If you have made a payment in the last six years the debt isn’t statute barred and this is not a possible defence for you.
If you haven’t made a payment for more than six years the debt may be statute barred. If it is, you have an excellent defence because the creditor has delayed too long in starting court action.
But see Questions about statute barred debt for details. This defence has got harder from January 2019 when a court case decided that the date of a Default Notice was important for some debts including some credit card, catalogues and loans. complicated.
If you are sure a debt is statute barred – perhaps you have already taken debt advice – you could tick Box D and state this. But otherwise tick Box C for more information and ask for a full Statement of Account and the written agreement for the debt.
Important: if there is any chance at all that your debt is close to being statute barred, you must NOT tick Box A and be careful on the Reply Form to refer to “the alleged debt” not “the debt”. Otherwise you may be acknowledging the debt.
The creditor doesn’t have the written agreement
This one matters if you owe money under a credit agreement (loans, credit cards etc) because you have the right under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to ask for a copy of the agreement, which has to contain certain information. If the creditor cannot produce the CCA agreement, they cannot take court action until they do.
This is more likely to work with older accounts but it is always worth asking for. The CCA agreement will also help with checking the amount is correct and that the debt is not unfair. So tick Box C and ask for it.
The debt was included in insolvency
If the debt was included in your bankruptcy, IVA or Debt Relief Order, tick box D and write in the type of insolvency, the date it started and the date it completed, if it has.
The original credit was unaffordable
If you couldn’t afford the credit you were given, consider making an affordability complaint to the original lender, not the current creditor. This is very common for payday loans.
Affordability complaints are described in the articles here: iAffordability complaints. Go straight to a full complaint, don’t ask for a list of your loans first, and send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman immediately if it is rejected. If the lender tells you to talk to the debt collector about this last debt, say you want the lender to consider all your loans or you will send the full case to the Ombudsman.
If you do this, complete Box D on the Reply Form and say that you have sent an affordability complaint to the original lender. The debt collector should not start court action until your complaint is sorted. Also complete section 3 – you may want debt advice – and section 4 to ask for the written agreement.
The debt is unfair for some other reason
I can’t list all the possibilities! Some examples: you were less than 18 when you took out the debt, the firm may have supplied you with poor quality goods or an inadequate service, you may have cancelled the agreement within the specified time, the firm owes you some other money etc.
If you are confident, go for Box D. Otherwise, talk to a debt adviser. If you can’t do this quickly, tick Box C to give you more time and to ask for any other information.
How to complete sections 2, 3 and 4 of the Reply Form
Section 2: “How will you pay?”
You only have to complete Section Two if you ticked Box A or Box B – agreeing you owe some money. If you ticked C or D, you aren’t admitting you owe the money and you shouldn’t complete this or provide a budget sheet.
Your options are to pay it all (Box E) or offer instalments (Box F). If you can repay the whole amount without a problem, this is usually best as it gets rid of any possibility of a CCJ. But don’t borrow more money or get behind with essential bills to do this.
Monthly payments need to be affordable:
- don’t panic and offer too much, because you have to be able to keep on paying it;
- if you are currently in a DMP, put down the amount that is being paid to the creditor. Ask your DMP firm for a budget sheet you can enclose with your Reply Form;
- to draw up a budget yourself, use National Debtline’s Your Budget tool. That suggests how much you should offer to this particular debt and lets you print a summary to send with the Reply Form.
- if you are unsure, talk to National Debtline.
You don’t have to complete the Financial Statement sent with the letter if you are enclosing another budget sheet or if you are ticking box C or D.
Section 3: Getting debt advice
You may be planning on getting advice but need to see the extra information you are asking for first. This won’t be a problem, because the creditor has to give you 30 more days after they have sent you the information you have asked for. Many people will want to write something like this in Box G:
I intend to get debt advice about this debt and my budget.
I can’t do this until I have received the information I am asking for.
Section 4: What information are you providing? What information do you need?
Box H asks what information you are providing.
- If you are admitting the debt and offering monthly payments (Box B) this should include a budget sheet, see above.
- If you are disputing the debt (Box D) there may be information that backs up what you are saying, but often there may not be.
- If you are asking for more information yourself (Box C) there is no need to provide any extra details yourself until you have received this and know the facts.
Box I asks what information you need. Helpfully it gives some examples:
A copy of the written contract for the debt; A full statement of account, including details of all interest and charges included on the outstanding balance of the debt, explaining how they have been calculated, and any payments already made toward the debt; a calculation of the interest claimed; the annual or daily rate of interest; a description of the nature and amount of any administrative charges included in the debt; a copy of the notice of assignment of the debt.
If you have a credit debt (any form of loan, overdraft, credit card, catalogue, hire purchase) I suggest you ask for all of the above. Also ask for a copy of the Default Notice. And if your debt has been sold from one debt collector to another, put notices of assignment in the plural as you want them all.
For “consumer” problems about goods or services it is less clear what to ask for. Sometimes there may be no written agreement. So ask for anything that you think will help your case.
The process of replying
If you do not send the Reply Form back in 30 days, the creditor can go to court and the next letter is likely to be a Claim Form.
30 days may sound like a long while but don’t leave it until the last minute to decide what to do, because you may want to talk to a debt advisor before completing the form. Also make sure your reply is posted well before the end of the 30 days to allow for weekends and any delay.
This is a standard form. If you lose it or want to start again, print out the pages from the Debt Protocol link above.
Take a copy of your reply before you send it, by scanning it or taking a photograph.
Send the letter by recorded delivery to the address given in the cover letter. Make sure you use this address, probably of a legal firm, not some other address for the creditor.
Places to get help
Who it’s best to talk to depends on your case and what you want to ask, but here are some general pointers.
National Debtline National Debtline can be contacted by phone 0808 808 4000 or webchat. This can be easier than trying to get a local appointment.
Citizens Advice, Law Centres Face-to-face advice is good if you have documents you would like checked or for a consumer issue.
Legal Beagles This is a forum but many people posting are very knowledgeable.
Solicitors You are unlikely to need a solicitor to help you complete this Reply Form if you are just asking for more information.
Have you received a Claim Form?
How to stop a debt being sent to bailiffs
Could a Debt Relief Order help you?
B Balboni says
Great news that legislation is moving forward,
Mike Thomas says
Sara
A very useful and informative fact sheet on how to complete the reply form, easy to understand and well written.
Top marks.
Best wishes,
Mike
Warwick says
Interesting points about affordability complaints but I wonder
1) When a debt is assigned doesn’t the new ‘owner’ take on the rights and responsibilities and therefore would they not be responsible
2) So many PDL companies have ceased trading , if 1) above is not an option- who is?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s an interesting point. I think you could argue Unfair Relationship through the court, but I don’t think you will get anywhere with going to the Financial Ombudsman.
Gregg says
Hi there. I have just read through this article on the new regulations about “Letter before Claim” and found it really informative.
Could anyone please advise what my options are if a Creditor (a Debt Collector, not the original Creditor) has recently been awarded a CCJ against me and I now realise that they didn’t provide me with such a “Letter before Claim”? The CCJ was awarded on the 28/11/17, and after completing the paperwork to show my situation the Court and Creditor has accepted my offer to pay a token amount of £1 per month. However, the CCJ resulted in nearly £1,500 of additional interest and Court costs being added, and I am now wondering if the Court would have ruled out the CCJ application if they knew that the correct protocol wasn’t followed by the Creditor? Any advice would be gratefully received!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is possible the creditor sent you a letter before action pre October – that would have been a simple letter, not like the new version with attachemnts, but didn’t start legal action for few months? That would have been OK.
If they never sent you a letter before action at all, then I am afraid this should have been challenged as part of your defence. It doesn’t mean you would have won the case, but some of the extra costs that were added on may have been disallowed. It is however too late to do this now.
Can I ask what type of debt this CCJ was for? And do you have other debts with debt collectors? A token £1 a month is never going to repay this debt.
Gregg says
Hi there. Many thanks for your advice, and that gives me a better idea of what I could have expected. I was not aware of the new rules on Letters before Action at the time of the CCJ, and would have certainly raised it with the Court at that time if I had done! The only letter I received from the Creditor was on the 19/06/2017 which informed me that the debt was assigned to them (PRA Group) on the 24/06/2014, and making an offer of a reduced settlement amount which I of course could not have afforded anyway. I later emailed them in September to say that I was about to seek professional advice from a Debt Counsellor and that I would get back to them as soon as I had an update. The next thing I received was the CCJ paperwork direct from the Court, which in my ignorance I responded to without thinking about offering a defence.
jac wilson says
Hi Gregg PRA were only formed on 05th November 2014. They used to be called Aktiv Kapital (UK) Limited before that.
T says
Hi Sara – I’ve received 3 letters from Lowell, headed up as a ‘pre-legal assessment’ and it basically says that they are “deciding whether to transfer my account to their solicitors”. It doesn’t quite adhere to the new letter before claim legislation you’ve mentioned above and their is no ‘response form’. Would it be best to ignore or could the next thing I receive be a court letter? The debt is just around 5 years since default.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds like a letter before the Letter Before Claim. If you ignore it, a Letter before Claim may be what you will get next. What sort of debt is this?
T says
There were 3 letters, which I believe is all the accounts that they hold for me.
Two are CC’s and the other is a store card.
One of the CC’s is with the ombudsman for an issue, but I guess that is with the original creditor and not Lowell, so won’t affect it?
Do you think I should take action or wait?
Thanks very much!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of action are you thinking of – disputing the debt? making a partial settlement offer? offering a monthly payment?
the one that is with the Ombudsman – if you win this case then the balance may be reduced. Have you told Lowell’s this debt is in dispute with the original creditor?
T says
I was thinking of asking them to send me the CCA for the accounts to establish exactly what they were for and to see if they could enforce them, as I believe from research that if they don’t have the necessary paperwork, technically they aren’t able to chase the debt – but I may be wrong on that? If they came back with the correct paperwork, I would offer either a partial settlement or a monthly payment I think.
I haven’t told Lowell it is with the FOS, because I don’t want to acknowledge the debt at this point if possible.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though the debts can’t be statute barred if you only defaulted 5 years ago – correct? If that is right, then there is no danger in acknowledging the debt – that is only relevant for statute barring. Even if you acknowledge the debt, if the creditor can’t produce the correct CCA documentation the debt is unenforceable in court.
Your plan to ask for the CCAs and then offer a settlement / monthly payment if the debt collector can produce them sounds sensible. The chance of Lowell’s deciding to do nothing if you ignore these recent letters isn’t good!
I would tell Lowell’s now about the debt that is in dispute – you don’t want them to have started court action before you do this – much harder to deal with. if you tell them now they should not start court action until your complaint is resolved.
Georgina says
I’ve received a letter before claim from a solicitors for a credit card debt. I have offered £20 a month which is all we can afford which they have rejected, as its a large debt it would take years to pay. They have asked for payment in full which obviously can’t make and to semd back letter before claim. They have said the offer won’t be reconsidered so what should i do in terms of the how i will pay section, also not disputing the debt but should i tick Box C or Box A in Do i owe the debt.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you tick Box C and ask them to produce the documentation for the debt. How large is the debt?
Georgina Battson says
Its 9,400 so quite large. I’m still trying to get total of all my debts think bankruptcy maybe only option to clear them all. Should i make payment offer or leave this as already done and been rejected. I’m sure they want more like £100 but we just can’t afford that.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At the moment I wouldn’t, just ask them to produce the CCA documentation and tick the bits which saying you are seeking debt advice.
As this isn’t your only debt, it would be a good idea to get advice. Otherwise you may offer more than you can afford to this debt… then what will you do when the next one threatens to take you to court? I suggest you Talk to National Debtline see https://www.nationaldebtline.org/. They can help you look at all your options, including bankruptcy, and what offer you should make to this debt.
eggybread says
is an email an acceptable way of replying to a letter before court?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
NO. Absolutely not. You have to complete the Reply Form you have been sent – an email may be ignored. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 to talk about youir options. This is very probably your last chance before they start court proceedings, get it right!
eggybread says
where do you stand if the reply form wasn’t sent but a detailed response to the LBC was sent clearly stating the debtors position and reasons in the matter?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have they started a court claim?
Paul says
Hi a lot of good information. But can anyone tell me what happens if you go through filling all the forms and make an offer of a set monthly payment and the creditor still insists on court action?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you need to defend the case or you will get a CCJ.Has this happened or are you just worrying about possibilities?
Paul says
Yes this has happened today, they have said they will not except my offer and intend taking this to court and that I would incur these charges as well
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is your offer low? Have you supplied them with an income & expenditure statement to back it up?
What is the debt, how old is it, when did you last make a payment to it?
Paul says
It is a credit card
Last payment roughly 3 years ago,
It is now a new creditor, I have filled in all the forms including income and expenditure.
The debt is £3600 and I have offered £25 a month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, well its always worth asking the debt collector to produce the CCA agreement for the debt – have you? If not do this now, see https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx and note you have to pay £1
Paul says
Hi I asked for the CCA today and instantly the new creditor who purchased my debit in November last year accepted my original offer of £25 a month, there was a definite change in the tone of the conversation from the one that was going to take me to court and that wouldn’t accept £25 a month. Should I set up this standing order now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sure. But you still want to see that CCA!
Paul says
What would be my course of action if the creditor does not provide the CCA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well as the National Debtline fsctsheet linked to above says, in that case the debt is unenforceable in court. Soyou could consider stopping paying…
Georgina Battson says
I filled in a letter before claim in January, had sent 3 separate letters offering the creditor £20 a month which they rejected but said would only ask for whats affordable. Filled this out and returned to which they rejected again and now waiting for court papers. As i am not working so they can’t use attachment of earnings their only option is bailiffs. We don’t have anywhere near value of debt which is £9000 that they could take. My car is worth about £500 would they be likely to take that. Do the court write to me to fill out income & expenditure again or will they just decide to send bailiffs round. I am thinking about going bankrupt as have large amount of debt but undecided yet.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When you get the court papers, there is a form included where you can make an offer. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/court-claim-form/ for details. National Debtline 0808 808 4000 can help you decide how to fill this in
If your offer of £20 is accepted by the court (which it may well be if you are on benefits) then if you make those monthly payments, the lender cannot instruct bailiffs.
But if you have a lot of debt, then it makes sense to look at your other options. If you are renting and your car is worth £500, a Debt Relief Order may be a good options if your debts are less than £20,000 – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/dro/. If you owe more than £20,000 bankruptcy could be the right option for you. National Debtline can help you look at these options now, so give them a ring.
Georgina Battson says
Thank you, i’m not sure exact value of my debts as alot are over 6 years old but not showing on my credit file although still making payments for them. I believe its probably over 20k. My partners income covers the household bills not receiving any benefits apart from child benefit.
Will speak to national debtline again for further advice.
Many thanks
Ian says
Hi,
I have a defaulted payday loan with Instant Cash/PayDay Uk which is now owned by Prac/BW Legal. The account started on 10/01/2012 and the default occurred on 1/7/2012. I did not make a payment at all towards this or respond to any letters or phone calls. As you can see this debt is very close to being statue barred, if not already.
I went through some old documents and discovered a letter of claim from Prac/BW Legal for this debt.
This was sent to my current address on 24/10/17 with a reply needed by 28/11/17. I foolishly put this in with the other few letters I have received over the months which I assumed were bog standard debt letters. I did not reply to this in any way.
Where do I stand? I havent heard anything since. Nothing from the court. Nothing on my credit file and its 6-7 months past the deadline set by the letter?
What should I do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry, a few questions: “the default occurred on 1/7/2012” where does this information come from? Have you checked your credit reports with all three credit reference agencies, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/? Did you ever make a payment to this loan? Did you have other loans from Payday UK before this defaulted one?
Ian says
Hi Sara
The default is listed as that date on my credit report from Experian.
I never made a repayment to this loan. I believe from the date of taking it out (10/1/12) taking it out, I never had any further contact with them either.
No. Just this loan I believe. I can’t find any paperwork or emails and have long since closed my bank account the loan went in to. But from my memory, I’m 99% certain it was just this one.
Barbara Thompson says
Hi Sara,
I originally had a loan from Payday which started in September 2012 I couldn’t afford to pay in Feburary 2013 and it was eventually passed to quidebt in the same month. They accepted a monthly repayment which to my knowledge was still an active standing order from my bank account. Today I received a letter of claim from BW legal. My noodle report says it was satisfied January 2017. Im totally clueless as what to do, can you please help me.
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This loan, was it originally from Payday UK? You started it in September 2012 and then rolled it every month until February 2012?
Did you have any other loans from Payday UK before this one?
The letter from BW Legal – is it a Letter Before Claim, like the one described here, with attachments including a Reply Form? https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/
Or is it a Claim Form from the court, as described here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/court-claim-form/
Barbara Thompson says
Hi yes the loan was originally from Payday uk. No other loans, and it is a Letter Before Claim/Action. I have added a clip from noodle
Account start date
14/09/2012
Account end date
09/12/2016
Opening balance
£ 375
Regular payment £
£ 369
Repayment frequency
Monthly
Date of default
01/02/2013
Default balance
£ 375
So I’m not sure now if any repayments where made.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you see from your bank statements if payments have been made?
Barbara Thompson says
Its took a while to find, first payment made by standing order was on 15/03/2013 then every month until 15/10/2013, the payments suddenly stop. The bank is looking into it but will take a few more weeks. I only have until next week.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large were these STO payments? Do you think the balance owing on the debt looks about right?
Your options here
1) to make an arrangement to pay BW legal a monthly amount to clear the debt
OR
2) to dispute that the balance is correct by returning the Reply Form asking for statement of account for the debt
OR
3) If you think the original loan from Payday UK was “unaffordable” then you may have a good complaint against them. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. If you think this could apply to you, then you should put in a complaint to Payday UK today and inform BW Legal that you are doing this and ask them to hold any court action until your complaint is resolved. If you do this also return the Reply Form asking for more details about the debt, a copy of the CCA agreement for the debt and a statement of account for the debt – this all postpones the time until court action can be started.
Village Idiot says
Hi, I got a letter before claim a few days ago, this is in respect of an old 2006 debt (loan) but one where payments have been made until recently, I was on a DMP but decided to go it alone and then due to some financial pressure have missed payments. The debt was with Halifax but has been sold at least once and is with Idem.
My question is about how safe it is to tick box C. I have a suspicion they will have a correct CCA, I think this is a loan completed in-branch, but would prefer to test this out, however if they do have the CCA I would want to move straight on to offering an arrangement to pay. My most recent default is about 5 years ago and although my credit file perhaps looks a bit ropey with arrears at present, the lack of defaults hopefully means it could repair quite nicely with a more sensible spell and don’t want a CCJ to mess that up. If they do have the CCA, and for some reason their paperwork seems very confident in general, then I don’t want to have provoked them into being as harsh as they can be. I’d want to be able to say ‘OK, the game’s up, I will cooperate’ and us both to proceed nicely,
On the other hand, can you use the form to offer to pay but ALSO ask for the CCA, or by ticking ‘I owe this debt’ are you creating a situation where they won’t need the CCA, you just legally admitted you owe the debt?
Thanks,
VI
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you tick box C, then they shouldn’t start a claim if they can’t send you the CCA agreement. If then can, then you can just offer a reasonable arrangement to pay. Of course they could still go for a CCJ, but they could do that now if you offer an arrangement to pay. It is well worth asking for the CCA agreement at this point.
You could I suppose tick Box A and also send them a seperate request forth CCA agreement, but that seems confusing and I can’t see any advanatges in doing that.
For these old loans the question isn’t whether you signed one in the branch, it’s whether it can be located and if the debt collector can get a copy of it to show you. If you get something and you aren’t sure if it is good enough, you could talk to National Debtline or post up a copy of it in Legal Beagles forum.
Village Idiot says
Thank you Sara, I now realise this is a credit card debt not a loan as well. I get the feeling that means the CCA is less likely to be found, or to be OK…?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know ant statistics on that I am afraid, but its definitely worth asking for.
Warwick says
Worth sending the cca. I had a Halifax loan from around that time. It was incorrectly executed and therefore irredeemable unenforceable. (They had lumped arrangement fee in with the loan)
Just having a cca doesn’t mean it’s enforceable
T says
Hi – how did you find out that it was unenforceable? Did you get independent advice from somewhere? I’m in similar position. Thanks.
Warwick says
I certainly didn’t pay anyone for advice. I used a website where the owner looked at it and explained why it was UE. I also had another one with a compliant agreement but we defeated them in court.
I don’t want to name the website without Sara’s OK but it was not the one she knows me from.
Sally says
I received a ‘letter before claim’ today from BW Legal. It advises unless I reply before 12th July they will issue a claim against me in the County Court.
It relates to a money shop loan I got, in store, in 2013. I got one cash loan in store and never paid it back, I was under extreme financial pressure at the time. Of course I am not proud of this, but thats what happened. I dont recall ever communicating with anyone about this or responding to any of the various letters that I got. I cannot even remember how much I got in store, but this asks me to pay £466 – I doubt I got that much though to be honest.
Im not really sure what to do, as I understand this is a required step before they take me to court, but is there any point me lodging an affordability complaint with The Money Shop and asking BW Legal to suspend their recovery efforts? Or shall I ask BW to show me documentation proving they can enforce the debt?
I tried to look at my account online with BW Legal but it isnt accepting my details.
Any help would be apprecaited.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your choices now are:
1) to repay the £466
2) to offer to repay the £466 in regular monthly payments. If you offer something low they may still decide to go to court and get a CCJ
3) to ignore it – in which case they will go to court probably next month for a CCJ
4) to decide to put in an affordability complaint to the Money Shop now.
I suggest option 4 is the best option for you! It is very likely that the Money Shop didn’t do any affordability checks on you back in 2013. It may not work, but it is well worth a try as you may get the amount reduced to the amount you actually borrowed, which may just have been £100… Also while the complaint is going through (and it could take months as you may need to send this to the Ombudsman) you can be saving up some money so if the complaint doesn’t succeed you can pay off the debt and not get a CCJ.
If you want to go for option 4 you need to do ALL of the three following things asap:
a) put in a complaint to the Money Shop today. Skip staep one and go staright to step two. Use the template letter from here https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/ and change it to say you only had one loan. Add at the end that you know BW legal now owns the debt but you want the Money Shop to consider your affordability complaint and reduce you debt to the amount that you actually borrowed.
b) send the reply Form that came with the letter you got back to BW Legal:
– ticking Box C in section 1,
– ignore section 2,
– in section 3 put in Box G “I am making an affordability complaint to the Money Shop. Until this has been resolved (including going to the Financial Ombudsman if necessary) I will not know what defence I have to any court action.”
– in Section 4 asking for “A copy of the written contract for the debt; A full statement of account, including details of all interest and charges included on the outstanding balance of the debt, explaining how they have been calculated, and any payments already made toward the debt”
c) in addition to sending the reply form back, also write a letter or email BW legal saying that you are making an affordability complaint to the Money Shop and you want them to not to start any court action until this has been resolved as it may significantly reduce the amount of money owed.
Sally says
Hi – I have not yet heard back. What do I do if they dont respond to my letter? Do I just leave it or chase?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who haven’t replied, BW Legal or the Money Shop?
Sally says
BW Legal haven’t. Money shop have sent an email back saying they are investigating
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK I suggest you email BW Legal, say that the Money Shop are investigating your complaint – attache a copy of the email from the money Shop to prove this – and ask them to confirm that they will not start court action until your complaint is resolved.
Sally says
Thanks Sara. One question, by doing that am I not essentially “owning up” to the debt, and BW could use it as proof I’m liable and not supply the requested paperwork to prove it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This thing about not acknowledging the debt only matters if you are close to the point where it is statute barred, and acknowledging the debt resets the clock for another 6 years. This debt cannot be statute barred. You do not become liable for the debt by telling BW Legal you are making a complaint about it. If you ask for the CCA agreement, BW Legal have to produce it.
I understand that I am just some person on the Internet saying this… you could talk to National debtline about it?
T says
I need to get a Pre Action Protocol back to CohenCramer (AKA Lowell) within 3 days.
I was going to simply write back requesting the CCA, but I’ve just had a thought that the debt could be statute barred. However, I can’t see it on my CallCredit credit file, so I’m not sure when I defaulted.
Also, they’ve said that there was a spurious ‘payment’ of £2 something at some point that certainly wasn’t me, and I’m guessing they’re trying to reset the clock somehow. There was also an adjustment from Argos, as they wrote to me to explain they had mis-sold some cards and this automatically went to Lowell.
The debt is only for around £200 but I don’t want to make any wrong moves, especially as they’ve mentioned possibly going to court.
Do you have any advice as to how to approach this? I’m not even sure if I can ask the FOS to look at it for affordability due to the time aspect, but then again, if it is past 6 years from default, I guess it means it is statute barred?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So back in February you posted saying you has a letter from the solicitors and I said if you did nothing you would get a Letter before claim – and it has arrived.
If you ignore this the next thing you get will be A Claim Form from the court, so you are right you have toget the Reply form back today first class post and preferably recorded delivery.
If you aren’t sure if it might be statute barred, then refer to “the alleged debt” everywhere in your reply so you aren’t acknowledging it.
Ask for the CCA agreement. And also ask for a full statement of account. Then when you get that, talk to National Debtline about whether the debt may be statute barred.
What sort of debt is this?
T says
Thank you! It’s Argos – a store card.
I’ll get it back today following your advice. Just to clarify, once they’ve sent off the CCA and account to me (assuming they have it), can they then just issue a CCJ straight afterwards, or will they generally say that they’ll do it in X number of days?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The PAP rules say:
“In any event, the creditor should not start court proceedings less than 30 days from receipt of the
completed Reply Form or 30 days from the creditor providing any documents requested by the debtor, whichever is the later.”
So you will have time to talk to National Debtline about whether you have a defence and to make an offer to pay if you feel you don’t have a defence.
T says
Hi Sara – they’ve written back confirming my request and said that they need to request the documents from their client which is Lowell, who then go to Argos I guess.
They’ve said it will take 45 days, so I want to speak to National debtline before then. Do I just ring them and explain the situation?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, National Debtline can explain what may happen, but at the moment it’s just a question of waiting and seeing if they can produce the CCA agreement … that is a pretty old debt.
T says
Also wanted to ask – they require you to sign the PAP form. Would they be allowed to use my signature to reconstitute the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unless the Argos account was opened before 2007, the question of a signature is largely irrelevant. But you could use an unusual signature on the Reply form if you are concerened about this.
T says
Thanks again, Sara. WIll let you know how I get on.
It was actually opened back in 2004, so I’ll do a ‘unique’ signature.
T says
Hi Sara – I got a reply back from the solicitors who sent a huge wad of papers which are just copies of statements and some copy letters chasing the alleged debt. There is no actual agreement of any kind which is one of the things I requested. What do you recommend I do?
They’ve stated on the cover letter that their ‘client’ (Lowell) would prefer to come to a settlement agreement without commencing legal action. Then it goes on to say that if they don’t hear from me in 30 days their client may instruct them to commence legal proceedings without further notice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds promising! So who did you send the CCA request to, Lowell’s or the solicitors? You could write back and ask them to confirm that they have not complied with your request fot a copy of your CCA agreement and that without it they are not allowed to start court action.
T says
Thanks Sara! I sent it to the solicitors as that’s who wrote to me about the issue.
So, I should write back ASKING them if they have complied or just STATE that they have not complied? To be honest I’m surprised (or maybe not) that they didn’t point out the fact themselves – ie that they didn’t send everything I asked for, including the most important thing.
Warwick says
I’m not sure that is strictly true. Starting court action is not enforcement. They could start and then if you defend come up with a recon later. Lowell started court action against me without a compliant s78.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well yes, but that was pre the debt Pre ACtion protocol, wasn’t it?
The debt PAP says “In any event, the creditor should not start court proceedings less than 30 days from receipt of the completed Reply Form or 30 days from the creditor providing any documents requested by the debtor, whichever is the later.”
So I am suggesting he should write back to the solicitors and point out they have not provided the CCA agreement which is a document he has asked for so they cannot start court proceedings until they do. Ask them to confirm this is correct.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also can you tell from what they sent you when the last payment to the debt was?
Warwick says
I do agree with youbutmaybe I am a littlemore cynical about the powers of the Pap. There seem to be plenty of get out clauses for the debt purchasers. I also wonder what the penalty would be if they broke the rules. Yet to see any evidence of the PAP having teeth.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well this is early days. It seems more likely that they are trying it on at this point, surely? If the solicitors refuse to confirm they won’t start court action until a CCA agreementvis supplied, I would suggest a formal written complaint to Lowell.
T says
Thanks, both for the comments.
I will respond to the solicitors and mention your point regarding the missing CCA document. I wonder what the best to word it would be – i.e. asking them to confirm if they will start court action? I’d rather it sound like I know the facts rather than asking them anything.
Should I send a formal complaint to Lowell at the same time or wait until the solicitors have replied?
Last payment around 5 and a half years ago it seems, although it’s not on my credit report for some reason.
T says
Hi Sara,
I had a reply from the solicitors now to say that they have passed the matter back to their client and Lowell’s in house legal team will now deal with it. Also to address any future correspondence to Lowell.
I’m confused as to why they would do this? And as the alleged debt has been passed back to another party, would they need to send new PAP paperwork if they wanted to start a claim?
I also asked the solicitors to remove all my details from their system and confirm to me that they had done this but they haven’t. Isn’t that what GDPR set out that businesses should do?
Thanks again!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though the solicitors have no intention of putting in a Claim any time soon, so they have handed it back. That’s good!
Strictly a new PAP isn’t needed if they manage to produce the documentation that you have asked for.
I suggest you write to Lowell, noting that your request for a copy of the CCA agreement has not yet been complied with, and ask them to confirm they will not be proceeding to a court claim until they have produced the document.
The solicitors need to keep their case records. What if you were to put in a complaint about them – they have to keep case records. Under GDPR you have the right to have your name removed from mailing lists, but not this type of information.
T says
Thanks, Sara! I thought so too, but I just want to know where things stand rather than be in limbo.
I will write to Lowell as you suggest. Do you think it needs to be framed as a complaint too?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, just an email.
I know you want clarity, but this is a situation where you often won’t get it. just because Lowell can’t get the CCA now, doesn’t mean they will agree that they never can in future.
Emma says
Hi
I have received a letter from Peachy stating the following:
Please be notified hereby that despite previous reminders for payment we are disappointed to note that your account **** still remains outstanding. Accordingly, we may now have no option but to Issue a Claim against you in your local court.
If a judgement has been granted the following may apply:
Your debt being increased to include legal costs and interest;
Your name being entered in the public records of your local court;
Your credit rating being adversely affected for future credit applications.
Non payment after judgement may result in the following:
An application to the county court for an attachment of earnings
A charging order being granted on any property you own.
Help!! What do I do? I did contact them and tried to arrange payment but they ignored me!! What are my next steps!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you check that that your letter looks like the Letter Before Claim that is described in the article above ^^^. It should have several enclosures, including one marked Reply Form. Does it?
Was this your only loan from peachy, or had there been others before that you had repaid?
Emma says
Hi
It only has a cover letter. No reply form or enclosures!!
I have had numerous other payday loans in the past, which are actually going through the complaint process- this one is much more recent, taken while I was on a DMP (thought I could manage it but life threw something in my way!!) so still open and I had offered to pay the interest like a rollover for the missed payment and then continue on the normal payments however this was ignored. End of the payday loans for me! Life in the process of being sorted out!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then this is Peachy trying it on. Until you get a letter Before Claim with the required enclosures, they are NOT about to start court action.
This would be a good time to send them an affordability complaint – a good result would be for them to remove the interest and arrange an affordable repayment plan… Make a point in your complaint of saying when you offered to make a payments but they ignored it.
Jill says
I have received a letter before Action but there wasn’t a form to complete and return nor does it say Encs on the letter. Its headed Letter before Action at the top but in the absence of a reply form would this letter be classed as not following the new protocol introduced in Oct 2017.
Would really appreciate your comments on this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is this letter from? What sort of debt is it and do you agree you owe the money?
Jill says
Gladstone’s solicitors
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and the debt is? do you agree you owe the money? when did you last make a payment to this debt? and who is the debt collector?
Stephanie says
I have been sent a ‘notice of claim letter’ with reply forms. It is for 900 odd debt, the account was created 24th August and action was taken 22nd Oct 2013. It is through Lowell solicitors and on the letter it says if I don’t contact them or reply within the time specified then they MAY issue a CCJ. I rang them up today and they have said no matter what I pay they will stay go ahead with the CCJ. I really can’t have a CCJ because I want to get a mortgage. Where do I stand?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt is this? Can you afford to pay it now? If you want a mortgage soon you must presumably have started saving up a deposit? Do you have other problem debts as well?
Stephanie says
SOrry I didn’t realise you had responded. I have no other debts that I can’t manage so not in any trouble of that sort. I’ve been working hard to build my credit rating up this past year and a half so a CCJ would be a big problem for me. I don’t believe I owe the whole amount but tbh I wouldn’t have the money right now to pay it off anyway. I was thinking of sending a prove it letter at least to slow things down as before long it will be statute barred?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt is this? To be honest, you have no chance of getting through to the second half of 2019 when it would be statute barred if you have been sent a Letter Before Claim.
Stephanie says
In my original response I was meant to say that the account had opened on august 24 2012 and Lowell took it on in October 2013. It is a mobile phone contract for 02 which I should never have took out because I couldn’t afford it and was young and stupid. I had never paid a payment to 02 so without sounding arrogant, may help in the fact of me playing oblivious to it?
CK says
Hi
I received a letter of claim from TM legal for a peachy loan. I replied within the time frame asking for more details and needed to see more information about the debt before seeking advice.
They emailed me the details back. Credit agreement etc. The original amount was 250 they want 500 pound in total back.
I want to do an affordability challenge but not sure how it works in terms of time frame given they emailed me today with the further information . Do I have another 30 days (the original deadline was the 27th October) and what should I reply. Also should they have sent it me in writing?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“I want to do an affordability challenge” then that needs to go into Peachy TODAY. And you need to inform TM Legal (and the debt collector that currently owns the debt – tell them too) what you have done, say you are disputing the debt and ask them to hold off on any court action until your complaint is resolved.
The rules say “In any event, the creditor should not start court proceedings less than 30 days from receipt of the completed Reply Form or 30 days from the creditor providing
any documents requested by the debtor, whichever is the later.” but get that affordability complaint in asap.
Did you have other loans from Peachy before this one?
“Also should they have sent it me in writing?” – they did, they sent you an email.
CK says
I have not had any before but I could not really afford the loans as had had other payday loans before
I also feel the interest is unfair and that’s all I want removing
So it’s 30 days from the email today . Thank you I will send that off ASAP.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, well it isn’t easy to win a one loan complaint. You could decide to go back to TM Legal and say you could put in an affordability complaint to Peachy, but you would be happy if you can settle the debt with TM Legal now for £250 (assuming you can afford that).
Fred D says
Fantastic detailed list of actions points. I have completed my reply form, ticked C, G, I and have done a cover letter asking for all the data about the alleged debt as suggested as I believe it is nearly Statute Barred. BTW I can prove it is nearly SB but what do Lowell have to do prove it is not Statute Barred? Do I need anything else or should I just send by recorded/next day delivery off?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“I can prove it is nearly SB” alarm bells ringing here – when do you think it will be statute barred? Also what sort of debt is this and when was the account opened?
FredD says
Hi Sara,
During hard times (in 2012) I had a Provident Loan paid off and took a couple more, which were partially paid off. Last payments on the 2 outstanding were made, I believe in, March 2013 so was guessing would be SB in March 2018. However don’t believe debt was registered on my credit file by Lowell Portfolio until August/September 2014 – does this cause more issues for me? It is now with Lowell Solicitors. I am worried again and want to get the letter / forms back to them asap now as their letter was dated 1st November. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you have received Letter Before Action/Claim about the two debts where the last payment was March 2013, they will not be statute barred until after April 2019 – 6 years after you missed a payment, not 6 years after the last payment.
The default date on your credit record sounds too late but probably irrelevant to these forms and a court case – the debt collector isn’t likely to let this get past April 2019 before starting a court case.
Before sending the forms back, I suggest you read https://debtcamel.co.uk/refund-doorstep-loans/ and think if you should make an affordability complaint to Provident about the defaulted loans. If you want to do this:
a) do it asap then
b) inform Lowell AND Lowell Solicitors by email that you have complained to Provident and ask them to hold any enforcement action until the complaint is resolved
c) complete the forms and return them using the “The original credit was unaffordable” section described in the article above ^^^.
If you go the complaint route and Provident reject it, you should send it to the Financial Ombudsman the same day and tell Lowell AND Lowell Solicitors that you have done this and ask them to hold court action until it is completed.
FredD says
Thank you Sara – I have a lot on so think I will just challenge Lowell to provide all the details of the “alleged debt” as you suggest in your original article and see if they can or not. If they can’t provide the CCA etc then I should be ok as, my understanding is, that they will not be able to proceed to Court unless they provide the relevant paperwork. If they can then I may just make an offer to pay them before it goes/gets to the Court stage. One other question as Lowell Portfolio not Provident put the default on my credit file in Sept 2014 – should it drop off in Sept 2021, even though I may still be paying them off and they have not got a CCJ against me? Thanks once again for your advice it is clear and easy to understand!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, that is a plan if you think the original was affordable. I would be interested to know if Lowell do or don’t produce the CCA agreement, could you come back and say?
If the default date is Sept 14 this will drop off your credit record in Sept 20 no matter what happens to the debt or if there is a CCJ. But Lowell can still get. CCJ after that date if you stop paying.
FredD says
Hi Sara yes I will come back to you if either way on the CCA. Also when I checked my credit file again yesterday they actually put the default on in March 2015 – which seems a bit crazy to me. Thanks for all your help.
warwick65 says
Just for your information- If you make a formal S77 CCA request to Lowell for these provident loans , it is possible they will send back copies of the front page of the loan agreements, well that is what they did with me. There were terms on the back which they should have included and these were referenced on the front page near the signature box – words like please see terms and conditions overleaf.
While in theory, if they can not fulfil your CCA request they should not issue a claim they still may. Issuing a claim, oddly is not counted as enforcement and they may issue a claim in the hope you a) Settle, b) Don’t know how to defend or c) you get a judge who isn’t up to date with the law ( there are a few about)
Because you thought it would be SB after 5 years, this makes me wonder if you might be in Scotland as there , it is 5 years but 6 in England and Wales . Also with provident it is likely the limitations will start from the date of default not the date of first missed payment (unless the debt had been defaulted and you made payments after that). I would say though, Provident payments used to be weekly so the time would be a week after the last payment not the month suggested although limitation calculations are complicated and frequently highly contested in court.
Just my two pence worth
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good point on being sent an incomplete CCA agreement. If you want to check what you have been sent, you can post a copy and discuss it on the Legal Beagles forum here: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act.
I would be surprised if Lowell issue a claim if they can’t produce a CCA agreement. Immediate complaint to Lowell if they do and take it to the Financial Ombudsman – at the same time as defending the claim of course.
Poster does not have an IP address which suggests they are in Scotland. I agree SB is complicated for Provident but it is unlikely to be relevant in this case which is clearly not SB.
FredD says
Thank you this is useful to know too. I am based in England and I pretty sure the last payment was made in March 2013, yet Lowell Portfolio put the default on my credit file in March 2015, ie 7 months after the debt was assigned to them by Provident. Provident never did. I think I made a typo before on the debt becoming SB in 2018 instead of 2019.
Rachael says
I’m in an agreement with bw legal to pay £10 a month and have been since 2013. Today I received a letter saying they are going to apply for a ccj unless I pay the full amount by 5th March. I called them and asked them why when I’m in an agreement and they said that because I’m only paying £10 a month they have every right to give me a ccj!! They have never asked me to up my amount and as I’m in an agreement I don’t understand where this is coming from. Is this correct, can they do this? Can I take them to court as I feel this is unfair
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt is this for? How much do you still owe?
You have asked this question on a page about “Letters Before Claims” – have BW Legal sent you one?
Rachael says
It is a letter of claim I received, it’s for a payday loan. But I haven’t defaulted on it I’m still in the agreement and pay on time. I phoned and spoke to a second person and he said to disregard the letter as I’m already in an agreement, he didn’t understand why I’ve received the letter of claim. I’ve emailed bw legal so I can have a response by email. This debt by the original debtor or bw legal is not on my credit file
warwick65 says
I think you need to answer Sara’s question but to answer yours
Yes they can go to court to apply for a CCJ but of course if you defend it they need to prove their case. If you had been paying the contractual payments with the original creditor then they would not be able to do this (unless they had contractually terminated the agreementand issued a default notice) but as you have already defaulted, they can take you to court at any time.
There are various reputable forums out there, I post regularly on one
James says
Hi, I have received a letter of claim from Lowell Solicitors for a debt that isn’t mine. I have searched my credit file in detail and raised disputes on a linked address and account from BT which this is relating to. I have lived at my current property for over 9 years and have never resided at this other address the account I am being chased for a debt is about, let alone had any letters from BT about this (presumably because I have never resided at this other address).. I am unsure as to what to do next as after raising a dispute with Equifax, they are telling me Lowell have said I have to contact them directly as it relates to a default on a BT account (as above). The only reason I have the linked address is because it is on my credit file and Lowell or BT have failed to tell me the address it relates to. Any help would be greatly appreciated – especially given I have been sent a letter of claim. Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
” a letter of claim from Lowell Solicitors” First a quick check:
is a Letter Before Claim/Action, which is from the solicitors, would have had some forms attached, and is described in the article above?
Or is it a Claim Form from the court, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/court-claim-form/ ?
James says
It’s a “Letter of claim – 30 days to prevent Legal Action” from Lowell Solicitors….. with attached forms as above.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you are sure that this debt is not yours , then you could tick box D and say this and say that you have never lived at that address.
You need to treat dealing with Lowells and their solicitors as separate from dealing with Equifax (also check your Experian and callCredit records too to see if they also have an incorrect address on there for you.) You can’t rely on sorting one out also resolving the other.
I think it may help you to speak to national debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this letter before claim and what you should write. Make sure you post it back well within time and send this recorded delivery.
James says
It’s 100% not mine – thanks for the advice on this. I shall make a call to the national debtline and see what their take is on this also and let you know! RE: Equifax – thank you, I shall bear that in mind. I have checked my Experian and the address isn’t even listed on there or this debt. I shall have to look at callCredit too. I haven’t heard of that one!
Thanks for the useful advice on this :-)
Gordon says
Hi there,
About to request a CCA and notice of assignation from a DCA.
Does anyone know if they have to provide copies of all assignations? i.e. if OC sells to DCA 1, then DCA 1 sells to DCA 2 should DCA 2 have the assignation from OC to 1, and 1 to 2?
Thanks,
Gordon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt is this? when was the account opened? when did you last make a payment to it?
Gordon says
Hi Sara,
This is a payday loan default with Lending Stream. Account opened in Oct 14 so not statute barred for another 9 months or so, (I live in Scotland).
No payments made to it since opened.
The reason I ask is that I received an email from lending stream in Jan 16 to say the account was being assigned to Reconnect if no response in 3 days.
No contact from Reconnect then next correspondence was in May 18 from BPO stating they are collecting on behalf of Lantern (previously MMF), with the sentence ‘Lantern have purchased your debt from Lantern’, (which is clearly a mistake).
I did not receive any correspondence to say this was assigned from Lending Stream to Lantern, or anyone else.
If I ask for the notice of assignation then this could be assignation from any other DCA. I would require notice of assignments from all DCAs in order to trace this back to the OC, no?
Thanks for your reply.
Gordon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If I had to make a guess, I would say LS sold the debt to Lantern and there was no other debt purchaser involved. I would also expect Lantern can produce the CCA agreement and the Notice of Assignment. I am not saying don’t ask for these things, and indeed for the complete trail of assignments if it has been sold more than once, but just that you should not pin a lot of hopes on this helping you…
But have you looked at putting in an affordability complaint to LS about this debt, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/ ? Did you have previous loans from LS? If you put in an affordability complaint, you need to also inform Lantern that you have done this and reply to this letter before claim using the reply form, to tell them this as the above article suggests. Send this reply form back recorded delivery and within the timescale!
(Also go after any other payday lenders you used!)
NB I am assuming you have received a Letter before Claim. If you have received a Claim Form (N1) from the court that is completely different and you need to enter a defence within the timescales, not just ask for more documents.
Gordon says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for the reply.
I highly expect them to have the CCA and the assignation but things do get lost over time.
My plan is to challenge then make a F&F if they can produce the documents. I was just wondering about the wording of the request, if I could request back to OC for assignations.
This is a bit of a strange situation in terms of affordability complaint. I took the loan with Lending Stream, then on the same day requested a further sum from them. Therefore this was loans 2 & 3 (although on the same day), so unlikely to be ruled in my favour. I have been through the process with other payday loan companies but they normally rule from loan 3 onwards.
This has also been split into 2 agreements. They are only chasing me for one amount taken on that day, so if I was to submit a complaint to LS then I would be acknowledging both debts without and guarantee of success, and they are both close to being stature barred.
Not a court form, just the Letter Before Claim.
Thanks,
Gordon.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s up to you. 9 month is not “close” to being statute barred IMO. Taking 2 loans out on the same day is a good reason to question the affordability. “things do get lost over time” – well yes, but you are not talking long periods of time. Good luck…
Warwick65 says
You need to be sure of the type of assignment. Did they own the debt or were they collecting on behalf of someone. You might get a copy of the latest notice, deeds are much harder to get.
Answering Sara’s questions would help as well
Gordon says
Hi Warwick,
Thanks for the reply.
Please see response to Sara above answering Sara’s questions.
What I am being led to believe is that there was a legal assignation from Lending Stream to Lantern (preciously MMF) however I was not notified of this by Lending Stream as they advised they were assigning to Reconnect. No correspondence from Reconnect.
BPO then contacted me to say they were collecting on behalf of Lantern.
It was then passed back to Lantern, (supposed legal owner), then passed to Wilkin Chapman to begin court proceedings.
Just not sure if the chain of assignations has been handled correctly.
If this went from LS to Reconnect, as legal owner, then to Lantern, as legal owner, without notifying me then surely they have not followed the correct process? I would require multiple notice of assignations to prove this though.
Thanks,
Gordon.
warwick65 says
Hi
Just to be clear because I can not find any mention of a company called reconnect with google
It is usual (or so it seems) for LS to directly assign to MMF (with whom I had extensive dealings in their bad old days) so are you sure it was a full assignment to reconnect and not just appointing reconnect to collect. Even if it went to reconnect and then lantern it would only be two NOA (Notice of assignments) needed and they could, if they had to easily be reconstituted.
The problem with these debts is that the CCA’s are all electronic and they do not have to produce an original- just a reliable copy of what you would have signed, however who knows if MMF ever had that- from reading other peoples threads it seems they do.
Anyway this is not a debt forum – I post on one regularly so I think as Sara says your affordability complaint would be the way to go
Chab says
Can someone please help me? I have received an email today from TM Legal Services advising me they have sent a letter of claim in the post and I have 30 days to respond. Upon checking my emails this seems to relate to a payday loan I took out in July 2012 with 1st Stop Payday. I missed the repayment due in August 2012 and have never responded to anything they sent me. The debt was then transferred to Asset Collections & Investigations but again I’ve ignored everything they’ve sent me.
The problem I’m having is I’m 99% sure the letter won’t have been sent to my current address as I lived somewhere else when I took out the payday loan and I’ve never received any postal correspondence in relation to this debt so I do t think they’ve managed to find me using credit reference data.
Is there anything I can do to get them to issue the letter to my current address which won’t “reset” the clock if I want to claim the debt is statue barred? My understanding is I need to respond to the claim form however I obviously need to receive it in order to do so.
Any help would be appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does the email say you have been sent a Claim Form (which would from the court) or a Letter Before Claim (which would be from TM Legal Services)?
Chab says
Letter before claim
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the debt is already statute barred, nothing you can do will “unbar” it. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/. As that says, phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 to talk about whether your debt is statute barred as there has been a recent Appe4al Court judgement and things aren’t as simple as they used to be.
The “The debt may be statute barred” section in the article above suggests what you can write on the reply form.
To get a copy of the Letter Before Claim to reply to, email them and say that you have received this email about a debt, that you are uncertain what it is and deny that you owe any money for it, and ask for a copy of the Letter before Claim to be sent to your current address which is xxxxxxx so that you can read it and reply to it.
it may also be a good idea to send them a recorded letter saying this.
Chab says
Thanks. Sorry if my query wasn’t clear but I wasn’t asking if the debt was statue barred or not . Even if it was 100% definitely SB I just wanted to know how to go about getting a copy of the correspondence without inadvertently doing something “wrong” which may cause me more trouble . Even if my defence is SB I still need the physical correspondence in order to respond!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, I did answer that bit.
Even if you are sure it is statute barred it is worth asking for the CCA and other documents.
Chab says
I will email them as you advised, I am just thinking if they didn’t respond or actually send me a copy of the letter they’d likely proceed to the court, and even that correspondence from Court would be sent to an old address so I am a bit worried about how to go about things.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also send a letter recorded delivery.
warwick65 says
Hi
It will, I think all depend on when and if a default notice was sent . If one was sent, for safety use the remedy date for that as the start of limitations.
As for the letter of claim
I would tick the box saying you dispute the debt and ask for
The agreement
The default notice
The notice of assignment
The deed of assignment
As this is not a debt advice board I would suggest you either visit one of them or seek advice from a debt charity such as CAB. I would however take any advice given by anyone with a tiny bit of scepticism as although good intentions abound, not everyone is correct
Chab says
Thank you. I have no idea if a default notice was ever sent, if it as it would have gone to an old address.
So when I get a claim form, should I ask for a copy of the original default notice too?
Thanks
Chab says
Hi
I have still not received any letter. I emailed TM Legal advising them of my current address, they replied with a ”thanks, please call us to update your details” email. I replied reiterating they need to send the letter to my current address or I wouldn’t receive it, and did not hear back. A letter was also sent recorded delivery and received over a week ago. Yet no letter before claim here. Do I need to worry/do anything else?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you phoned them to update your details?
Chab says
Well no; I’ve provided my details in writing in a letter and two emails. I don’t see why I’d need to? It seemed like a ploy to get a phone number and make me discuss the debt, which would be stupid to do at this stage.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then phone them up! Your problem is the debt and whether they are about to start court action. Of course they should take notice of your emails and letters, but really, is this worth the risk? You can’t “acknowledge a debt” on the phone if that is what is worrying you. Just talk about “the alledged debt” if you want.
Chab says
I don’t see the logic in that, sorry. They’d emailed me to tell me they’d already sent a letter before claim. Not that they want to, or might do, but confirming they have sent one. I’ve requested this he sent to my current address (where I’ve lived for over for years and is linked on all credit reference agencies) clearly in writing. I don’t see what phoning them would achieve that’s any different to what I’ve put in writing. I’ve also got anxiety issues and calling someone like this isn’t going to be a walk in the park.
Unless you’re saying I’m somehow legally obligated to ring them? But this goes agains almost all other advice I see (which promotes everything being in writing) so I wonder why you’re so adamant I should ring them at this stage? They already have the details they need.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You aren’t legally obligated to phone them. But what you have done so far doesn’t seem to have worked, does it?
You asked if you needed to worry/do anything – I have made a practical suggestion if you want to try to avoid a court case. It is normally easier to get things resolved at the pre-action stage than defend a claim in court.
Wallace says
I have received court papers for a credit card debt which was sold to Cabot, there isn’t a hearing date as yet. Am I still ok to request a CCA, it’s not too late?
Also my solicitor has requested the CCA from Cabot’s solicitor but they have failed to provide it. Can my solicitor request a CCA or does it have to be me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it’s not too late. But if your solicitor has asked, why would you want to do this? Remember you actually don’t want them to be able to produce it… so don’t put in a request yourself without talking to your solicitor first as they may not think it’s a good idea.
Wallace says
Thank you Sara for your very quick reply.
I did read somewhere that the request must be made by the debtor and not their solicitor. My solictor requested it from their solictor, could that potentially fall out with the Consumer Credit Act? I don’t think he used the proper wording, referring to the 1974 act and the 12 days etc and paying the required. £1.00.
Just trying to cover all angles.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t imagine why a solicitor would not be able to request this. I think you need to talk to your solicitor on Monday about what he has done and whether you need to do anything at the moment.
warwick65 says
As far as I know a solicitor, if acting on your behalf can send a CCA request. In fact I have seen multiple cases of someone acting on a third parties behalf doing so (think of a son acting for an aged parent or someone acting for someone with diminished responsibility )
When I received my claim I sent a CCA request and a CPR 31.14 request before instructing solicitors so it wasn’t a problem. Also my claim was under 10K so was a small claim as opposed to fast or multitrack
I hope you have a Consumer credit specialist solicitor
Wallace says
I think my main concern is does the solictor need to make the request by quoting the CCA 1974 Act and send the required £1.00.
Maybe I am over thinking it but I think he has simply asked for a copy of the agreement from Cabot’s solicitor without using the wording in the example letters I have downloaded.
Woody says
I received a Letter of claim. It is dated 18th March. Am I best to buy myself a bit of time or get it in and done with
I also ticked to say I don’t know if I owe this debt and I’m seeking debt advice and the box to support my letter, for more Info
I’m now wondering should I have ticked that I may contact the original lender for an affordability claim but surely that box is as good as admitting the debt – ticking both would be a contradiction?
Can they still proceed once I’ve submitted this form? Or is their a protocol they have to adhere to? Ie; until they send me info I require they can’t start action?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt is this?
Woody says
It’s an old provident loan from 2012. I was unemployed and going through divorce and they came out to my home on 3 occasions (home credit). The sum owed is £2008.
I just need to think how best to respond initially /and when.
Because then I’ve got further issues as to how to fill an income and expenditure…
garth says
with a reply to letter of claim do you have to state why and evidence your reson for saying you dont accept you owe the alleged debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above works through what you can do in a lot of cases. What exactly is your situation?
This is your opportunity to ask for information from the creditor. You don’t HAVE to do anything, but if you want to try to prevent court action being started, it may help if you do!
warwick65 says
From personal experience – while you do need to follow the procedures for the letter before claim, I would also strongly advise you send a S77 request to who ever owns the debt. Remember to include the £1 fee.
Is it Lowell by any chance?
Ray W says
Hello
I sent back my letter before claim form to Lowell Solicitors with box D ticked, stating that my account with Vodafone was fully paid up when my contract ended, so dispute the £257 that they say I owe. I sent the form back over 2 months ago & received a reply within a week stating they will look into the points I raised & get back to me but have heard nothing since! Is there a time limit within which they have to reply? Please advise.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have evidence that your Vodafone contract was paid in full? If you do, you can just sit back and wait. If you don’t, it may be a good idea to assemble proof of this now, from Vodafone / bank statements. Over time it becomes harder to get this sort of thing.
Ray W says
Ok Sara I’ll do that, thanks 😊
Timmy says
Hi Sara,
I had a letter before claim from a disputed debt I had with Sky in 2017. They sold the debt without it it being resolved to Lowell.
I intend to defend the claim based on the dispute with the Sky. The debt is £260 – it was initially £160 until the extra fees were added by Lowell for court costs (can they do that? Considering its not even gone to court yet!)
My question is as this was in dispute and then sold on, will my defence based on my relationship with Sky be plausible and what are they likely to fight it based on? As they just bought the debt and my guess with no consideration of the background, do I have a defence and what is the liklihood of them not moving forward with it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have had a Letter Before Action and you have not yet had a Claim form?
Timmy says
I have had the claim form and sent off the acknowledgment section (online)
I will be defending this. Have already asked Sky for SAR. Should I ask Lowell to send me the details of their claim? Agreement, asssignment etc?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you send the Letter Before Claim reply firm back saying you disputed the debt?
I don’t give advice on court cases in progress. I suggest you call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and/or post on the Legal Beagles forum, see https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues.
Timmy says
Hi Sara
This isn’t at the court stage. I believe Lowell are playing a game of who will blink first and assuming I’ll just pay and not defend the claim (I haven’t put a defense yet) but as they don’t know the dispute I have with the original claimant they might not pursue.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you haven’t told Lowell about the dispute, it isn’t surprising they are pursuing it. You are the one playing games, not them!
As you have had a Claim form this IS at the court stage. It’s important your defence is good. It is harder to bring new points up later if you haven’t mentioned them at this stage.
I strongly suggest you get help with this. I can’t guess how good your case is. But now the case is in progress, it is on a conveyor belt that leads to a CCJ unless you defend it and win.
Timmy says
Hi Sara,
I am ready to put my defence in, I requested a CPR31 from Lowell, and sent signed for with Royal Mail. Its not been signed for and it may be a problem with the delivery! Will it affect anything if I send them another CPR 31 request at this stage as I am about to submit my defence? I will have a letter from Royal Mail confirming that the letter was sent but may have been lost (unless Lowell have received with without signing it)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry, I really do not give advice on court cases in progress. Talk to National Debtline or post on the Legal Beagle’s forum
Scott says
Hi Sara,
In May 19 my partner received 4 parking fines from Smart Parking. She was shocked as had the tickets to show she had paid. On examining these she had put the numerical 0 rather than the letter O on 2 out of the 4. We appealed to Smart Parking on all of the fines and we got a letter indicating they were dropping 3 of these and a separate letter to say they were pursuing one. We called to ask why this was being progressed but were told this information was not available. Unable to understand why this was being progressed we ignored this.
We subsequently received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus asking for payment on of Smart Parking, we ignored this but have now received a letter from CST Law. It is a Letter Before Claim letter and it has the attachment with the 4 options. It also gives us the option pay the outstanding £185 within 30 days.
My options are to suggest we just pay this to make it go away and just ease her stress levels and not have this hanging over her head or to fight it by selecting option 4 , dispute the claim and submit all the previous documentation, including the actual ticket.
Can you advise? If we dispute the claim by selecting option 4 will they have to reply to the information provided or could the next letter be taking us to court. I suspect this would be too much for my partner.
Thanks
Scott
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether you have good grounds to dispute the claim.
Scott Sanderson says
Thanks Sara, I have requested a call back from National Debtline. As I am in Scotland they couldn’t advise on the we chat. Can I confirm that if I select option 3 and ask for more information, then the 30 day clock is paused and is reset from date we are send the information/evidence? Don’t want to inadvertently end up with legal proceedings being implemented?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it may be simpler to wait until you have talked to NDL unless you are nearly at the end of the 30 days.
Adel says
Hi Sara
I’ve been contacted with Debt collector’s (Intrum UK) Solicitor on 20th October by a Letter of Claim for a debt of 11.5k. Which I belive originally was a loan of 10k.
I will be replying by Ticking box C, Writing on Box G that I can’t arrange to get debt advise unless I get CCA and finally Box I requesting CCA and other documents.
Neither I’ve made any contact before nor received any letter as I have been in abroad for a while till to date, fortunately got hold of this Letter of Claim.
Belive it’s Defaulted around Feb 2016 but this been marked in Credit file Sept 2016. Any thoughts?
What If I don’t receive the CCA in time, by saying I would like to know what’s the time limit and what action I should take?
Thinking of starting a offer of F&F Settlement (10% of the debt) by Without Prejudice headed letter at some point, whether I receive the CCA in time or not as I know it’s my debt and want to take action to close it, will it be Marked as acknowledging the debt? And do you think, between 10% to 20% F&F will satisfy Intrum UK? obviously will explain that that’s the max I can raise to settle.
Looking forward to your reply, Many Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Belive it’s Defaulted around Feb 2016 but this been marked in Credit file Sept 2016. Any thoughts?
a debt should be marked as in default if it is arrears by 3-6 months. This doesn’t sound that far out.
what are your current finances like, do you have other debts from around that time that you haven’t paid? how much could you pay a month to this debt?
Adel says
Hi Sara
Thanks for quick response.
Other debts are, Credit card 800, Loan 1500, Over draft 1500. I’ve checked with Credit file all Defaulted around same time and now with Lowell. No letter received or may be received but not in my possession.
Planning to contact Lowell and offer 10% – 20% as F&F.
My current finance is in Tocken Stage means can’t afford any monthly payment but can raise around 2k to 3k from family to be back in track to clear the debt.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So if you want to offer a full & final settlement, the best way is to say the offer is coming from a family member and also include an income and expenditure sheet showing that you can only afford to make token payments. See https://tools.nationaldebtline.org/yourbudget/ which will let you print out a budget in a format which creditors are used to.
National Debtline can help if you need it – phone them on 0808 808 4000
Adel says
Hi Sara
Thanks.
Last question, will Without Prejudice headed leeter prevent an acknowledgement?
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“An acknowledgement” only matters if a debt may become statute barred. It has no significance if they can’t produce the CCA.
You have had a Letter Before Action for a debt defaulted in 2016. Either you settle the debt or make a payment arrangement or this will be in court long before the debt will be statute barred. So no need to worry about trying not to acknowledge this debt.
jac wilson says
Hi Gregg PRA were only formed on 05th November 2014. They used to be called Aktiv Kapital (UK) Limited before that.
Samina Naz says
Hi I have been reading all these useful information and comments. I am in the similar situation I have debts (credit cards,store cards, personal loans and overdraft ect. no mortgage no govt or utility bills or mobile debts) I have total of £49000 which obviously has accumulated accrued interest charges. these debts are from 2015 and I had received defaulted notices as well. All these debts were sold to debt collectors. I was making like £2 to all the debt collectors for 2 years and now for couple of months stop making payments because different debt collectors now calling me for the same debts telling me it now passed on to them. I am going through severe anxiety and depression. kindly give any advise what action should I take as I am expecting next from them is letter before claim. many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry to hear about your health problems – it makes dealing with your finances harder, but not dealing with them can also be a big weight on your mind.
Can I ask if you are in work at the moment? Are you renting or do you have a mortgage?
Tom says
Hi there,
I’ve received a Letter before claim from Howard Cohen Solicitors which is now over a week past its reply date due to the fact that I have misplaced the post and not opened it in time.
The original agreement started in 2011 and I believe I’ve defaulted in the end of 2014 / beginning of 2015 as the default is no longer on my Experian credit file. I believe no payments were made since as there is no payments displayed on my Clearscore account for the past six years. I believe I haven’t made any payments myself and I have not been in contact in regards to this debt ever.
The debt has been sold to Howard Cohen in 2018 from a different Debt collecting agency. The attached letter doesn’t state my email or contact number, only a new address which is not a original address that the agreement was taken up on.
I’m looking to send the form back ticking the box C and explaining that I want further documentation before seeking a Debt Advice.
I was also looking to attach a letter stating that I do not admit the liability to this debt and ask to provide an evidence of any payments being made within the last six years otherwise they can’t take any court action.
Would you consider it the right way of tackling this issue?
Looking forward to your reply.
Kind regards.
Weatherman says
Hi Tom
You’re right that this debt might well be statute-barred, from what you have said. More info about that here, although it sounds like you know what you’re talking about: https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/
Can I ask what type of debt it is?
If you’re sure the debt is statute-barred, then you can safely just not pay. You would still need to declare it if e.g. a mortgage lender asked, because it still exists, it just can’t be enforced. To get the creditor off your back, you might want to send them a letter informing them of this – you don’t need to write a whole new one, use this template: https://www.nationaldebtline.org/sample-letters/time-has-run-out-recover-debt-ew/
If you’re not quite sure, someone from National Debtline can go through things with you and give you proper advice: 0808 808 4000
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt is this? The fact it isn’t on your credit record has nothing to do with whether a debt is statute barred or not. And you cannot trust a credit record to have an accurate record of payments made.
If this is a credit card or a loan, I suggest you should ask for a copy of the CCA agreement for the debt. If that cannot be produced, it is a firmer ground on which to defend a court claim than statute barring which can be complicated.
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ for how to ask formally for the CCA agreement. I would do this as well as sending back the reply Form which technically now is too late.
“the fact that I have misplaced the post and not opened it in time.”
You now need to be fanatical about opening your post and dealing with it. If you get a claim form from the court you have a very short time to reply to it.
.
Tom says
Thank you very much for your replies, I appreciate your help in this matter.
I have sent the claim form back with recorded delivery with attached letter provided by Weatherman. I also included a part requesting the CCA documentation from Sara’s comment which means if they do provide me with the evidence of any payments made within the last six years or they deem the debt not to be statute barred they will also have to include the CCA documentation.
It is a credit card debt originally. Can they take the matter to the court even if they can’t produce the CCA or the debt is in fact statute barred because I was late replying to claims form?
Thank again for your help, I hope this matter will now be closed otherwise I might pop back in this section in the future.
Great help. Kind regards.
Tom says
Hi,
After three months I received a letter from Hoist Finance rather than Howard Cohen Solicitors in regards to the same account enclosing the Notice of Assignment that I have allegedly requested and asking for repayment proposal but I didn’t request it, I wanted a CCA.
I had couple of other letters from Howard’s in the meantime saying they are waiting for the creditor to provide the CCA.
Does this mean they can’t produce the CCA ? What should I reply and say to them now? I’m a bit confused.
Kind regards.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you making any payments to this?
Tom says
No, I don’t recall making any payments since I have defaulted in 2014 but I’m not 100% sure – definitely no payments were made within the last five years.
I have requested a full breakdown of any payments made but received nothing in return.
This case was quiet since 2014 they have only just contacted me with the letter before claim in Feb this year.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you email HCS and say you have a had a letter from Hoist about the debt and you are unclear who you should be corresponding with. Ask them to confirm f they have retunred the debt to Hoist.
Abbie says
Hi,
I was just wondering if I could have some advice please. My mum took out two phone contracts in my name with EE a couple of weeks before I turned 18 in 2018 and the account was defaulted in 2019. I didn’t agree to this but I was just naive and didn’t understand fully what she was doing until a few months after and it was too late. I tried to contact EE but they didn’t help.
The debt was sold to Lowell and I’ve received a letter from their solicitor saying they will take me to court if I don’t reply. This is the first letter I’ve received from them as I am a student and don’t live at home but all my post goes there as it is my legal address, and I think my mum has been opening my letters and hiding them so I don’t find out about this.
I need to respond by the 17th September and I have no clue what to reply with. The debt isn’t mine but she had access to my ID, bank card etc as we lived together so she would have taken them and used these to get the phones. I don’t think it matters that I was under 18 because that’s basically what EE said to me. Is there anything I can do about this as I really don’t want a CCJ. I always pay everything on time and have managed to increase my credit score since then even with this defaulted account.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 tomorrow. It DOES matter that you were under 18. I think you want to not just prevent a CCJ but get the default removed from your credit record.
Abbie says
Thank you for your reply.
I contacted them and they told me how to reply to the letter. However, they didn’t offer any help on how to get the default removed. My mum has also done this to my sister before she turned 18 on multiple accounts and we both don’t know how to solve this and nobody seems to want to listen or actually knows how to solve this. It seems disputing our credit reports is useless because they just state how goods were delivered to our address etc. It is hard to prove it was our mum who did it.
Do you know if there’s anyone who we can contact who will actually be useful on this? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you sent the original lender a complaint saying this was identity theft and you were under 18 at the time? And have you reported this as fraud to Action Fraud?
Abbie says
Hi, yes I did and they said it wasn’t identity theft. They said the phone number and email address she used were mine and they didn’t listen when I explained how she would’ve had easy access to this along with my ID etc. They said they would get back to me about the account being opened before I was 18 but they never did.
Action fraud also said they couldn’t help due to something along the lines of identity fraud only being an offence when a business loses money not an individual. I am just hoping that the debt doesn’t get taken to court now.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Action fraud also said they couldn’t help due to something along the lines of identity fraud only being an offence when a business loses money not an individual. I am just hoping that the debt doesn’t get taken to court now.
That is nonsense. You are a victim of crime and you have the right to report it and get a crime reference number. Do this now. When you have this, tell the solicitors/debt collector who sent the LBA the reference number.
They said they would get back to me about the account being opened before I was 18 but they never did.
Then send them a complaint in writing saying they have never got back to you about this. Tell them the crime reference number. Say you want the debt removed from your credit record and called back from the debt collector.
Sabah says
I’ve been send a claim form and I need help can’t afford to pay it all together and would like to pay monthly
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000
Lisa says
Hi Sara,
Do I need to sign the reply from that came with the letter before court ? Also the address on the solicitors letterhead is a postbox, can I send recorded delivery to postbox? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, sign it.
I think you can but ask the Post Office.
Lisa says
Many thanks x
Mark says
Hi. I’ve read through the article and found it very informative and the advice easy to understand, even for a dumb bum such as myself. Having said that, could you advise me which option to choose in the following case.
I was accused by a private carpark company (Link Parking) for parking unauthorised in a private car park. I DID pay for my car park ticket (£3.20) and showed proof of payment for the days parking. The car park company rejected my appeal and issued a PCN to the sum of £100!! After I refused to pay up, they sold on my alleged debt to a debt collection agency, who promptly increased the bill to £160. The collection agency – BWLegal – have now threatened me with a Letter before Claim.
Finally to my query. How should I respond to the letter when it arrives?
Should I tick box C and ask for proof of the alleged parking offence.
Or should I tick box D and categorically deny the debt is mine. I have all the supporting documents proving the payment of the parking fee but I don’t necessarily want to show my hand IF I have to go to Court to defend myself.
If you’re still reading this then thank you for your patience and as always I appreciate any help and advice you can give.
Regards
Mark
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you wait until the letter arrives and then talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about what to put down.
Mark says
Okay, thanks for your response
MP says
Hi,
If you receive a Pre action protocol leter for a sunny account which was sold on but was deemed as unaffordable during the recent Sunny claims, how do you deal with this when threatened with court and a ccj?
Claim is being done by Moriaty Law on behalf of Merlligen
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/no-set-off-scheme-administration-debt-sold/ and talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this urgently.
MP says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for this. Are you aware of anyone successfully having a debt closed following the instructions in the article?
Also, what will National Debtline be able to do?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
All I know is the comments below that article.
I suggested you talk to National Debtline because unless you reply to this LBC, you will be receiving court forms.
Gavin says
Hi there,
Could you tell me for how long are letters before claim valid? I received one in Feb 2021. I disputed the debt but did not hear back from the claimant till last week, when they sent an Income and expenditure form.
If they decided to initiate court action do they need to send another letter before claim?
Many thanks,
Gavin.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when you say you disputed the debt, what did you say?
Gavin says
I said that they haven’t provided the documents that could make the debt enforceable.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt was this?
did you ask them to provide those documents and they haven’t? was one the CCA agreement?
Gavin says
It’s an overdraft debt that defaulted in 2009. I’ve asked them for a copy of the overdraft agreement, final demand & details of any payments made towards it. It’s not statute barred as the last payment I made was 2019.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, then I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this. I don’t know if it is unenforceable if they can’t produce those documents.
what is the rest of your financial situation like?
Jack says
Sara can I get your advice on the following:
I received a letter of claim dated 18/07/2022 I spoke with national debtline to check things was told was statue barred & to reply that etc so they sent me the letter to use I did & sent it 3/8/2022 I have not received anything back since. Any suggestions as I wouldn’t want to ring them. Or do I write to them again?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have an email address for them?
Jack says
Hi Sara, I don’t think so but could see if they have an email address as most companies would have one wouldn’t they. Do you think that like? To email them like? If so say what ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could ask them to confirm that in the light of your letter dated dd.mm.yy they will not be issuing a court claim for this alleged debt which would be statute barred.
Jack says
Hi Sara. I emailed them on the 28th sept I still yet haven’t received a reply via email or letter from my email. Also still nothing more from my letter reply to that claim from August. Do you think that’s it or should I follow up another email?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It has been less than 2 weeks. I suggest you wait another couple of weeks.
Jack says
Hi sara.
Just following up on our last conversation. I still haven’t heard anything. Any suggestions? Or do you think it’s all stopped?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Possibly, there is really no way to know. If you want you can put in a formal complaint about their refusal to reply to your letter
Jack says
Hi Sara
I still have not received any reply at all still. So would you now think it’s over or still to give bit more time or?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
see my previous reply.
Matt C says
Just received a Ccbc letter saying I owe money to Moriarty Law on behalf of sky for £200. I had a letter a while back but ignored it as I read reviews about them being fake etc now I’m in this situation. I have looked up from two years ago (when I cancelled sky) to find I do actually owe the money. If i admit to it, how long do I have to pay the money in full? And would a ccj happen if I didn’t pay (from the date of this letter)? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s a shame you ignored the previous letter as at that point you only had to settle the debt, now there are the court fees added.
Your options now are
– to admit it and make an offer to pay the money by a date
– admit it and make an offer of month payments
– dispute the claim (but it doesn’t sound as though you have a reason to dispute it); or
– ignore it in which case you get a CCJ by default.
If you pay the money in full within a month the CCJ will not appear on your credit record or will be removed if it has appeared.
Matt C says
Hi, just to make clear, would I have to pay from the date of the letter (30 days from then) in full or from when they receive admittance of claim? Or would they send out another letter with a date to pay by then I don’t get a CCJ? First time in this situation. I know now not to bury my head in the sand 🤦🏼♂️
Sara (Debt Camel) says
to be clear, you have received a Claim Form? Not a letter? You will need to complete the N9A form which has a box where you enter the date you will pay. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 for details.
Matt C says
Sorry, yes I checked, it is a claim form. So I’m assuming if I put a set date to pay by and the full amount paid by that date, no CCJ will be entered? That’s is all I’m worried about tbh.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
not if the date is unreasonably far in the future – the creditor will probably reject the offer. I suggest you talk to National Debtline about what to put on there.