A default badly damages your credit score, so how long will it stay there?
That depends on what the default date is on your credit record.
In Britain, the credit record rules say:
the debt, including the default, is deleted from your credit record six years later after the first default.
A debt that is marked as defaulted will be deleted after six years in all the following situations:
- you have repaid the debt in full;
- you have made a partial settlement;
- you are still making monthly payments to it; or
- you haven’t made any payment to it for years.
There are no exceptions to this rule. So a debt with a default date in May 2016 will drop off your credit record in May 2022.
This means that the longer ago a default date is, the better because it will disappear sooner.
If you can get a creditor to change a default date from June 2019 to April 2017, the debt will disappear more than two years earlier.
So this article looks at what the default date should be.
Contents
When should a default date be added to a credit record?
SCOR, the industry forum that handles credit reporting, says :
As a general guide, [a default] may occur when you are 3 months in arrears, and normally by the time you are 6 months in arrears.
There are exceptions to this which may result in a default being recorded at a later stage, such as secured or long term loans e.g. mortgages, or if the product operates in a more flexible way e.g. current accounts, student loans, home credit.
Those are the main guidelines, but let’s look at specific situations.
Debt management plans and arrangements to pay
For situations where you miss a few payments, or make reduced payments, or enter a Debt Management Plan, the “3-6 months” guidance above applies.
If your arrears have already reached three months, then the lender can register a default, even if an arrangement to pay is then agreed or you pay the debt in full.
Arrears will usually continue to mount up when you have an arrangement to pay or a DMP, so later a default can be added even if you are making all the payments.
At the start of a DMP or an arrangement to pay you may not want a default – they do harm your credit score! But if you aren’t going to repay the debt in a few years, having a default is usually better because your credit score will clear up sooner. With no default date added, the record will stay until 6 years from the date the debt is finally settled which could be a long while.
So it can often be better to have a default early in a debt management plan rather than not have one – see this article on DMPs and Credit Ratings for some examples.
Overdrafts are more complicated – and defaults will be later
For most loans and credit cards the standard 3-6 month provisions apply – the common exception is current accounts.
There is no regular or minimum monthly payment to an overdraft, so the concept of “3-6 months in arrears” doesn’t really exist.
You may have abandoned an account with an overdraft and switched to using a different account. But unless you told the bank this or asked for an arrangement to repay it (for example in a debt management plan) or included the overdraft in a debt management plan, the bank may not have been able to tell.
So default dates for overdrafts can often be later than you would think.
Debt sold to a debt collector
When a debt is sold to a debt collector, the new creditor should use the same default date as the original creditor did.
If the original lender didn’t add a default, you can ask them to add one, then the debt collector will have to use that.
In the unusual case that the lender didn’t report to a credit reference agency at all, the debt collector should apply the same ICO rule that the original lender would have used.
CCJs
If you have had a CCJ registered for that debt, the default date must be earlier than the date of the CCJ.
The CCJ will stay on your credit record for 6 years, so the original debt will have dropped off before the CCJ goes.
Insolvency
If you have gone bankrupt, had an IVA or Debt Relief Order(DRO) then the default dates of the debts in your insolvency must not be later than the date the insolvency started.
This is covered in detail in these articles which tell you how to correct these problems after insolvency:
- Repair your credit record after Bankruptcy;
- Repair your credit record after an IVA;
- Repair your credit record after a DRO.
Mortgages
Mortgages and other secured loans are an exception to the general “3-6 months in arrears” guidelines. In 2007 the ICO issued technical guidance on Filing Defaults With Credit Reference Agencies, see paragraph 14 for this specific area.
A mortgage lender has much more discretion on when to record a default, but it should generally not be later than six months after any repossession.
Only the first default date for a debt matters
Once a debt has been marked as defaulted, your credit file will normally show a default marker every month until the debt is settled. That looks dreadful on your credit reports! But in the credit score calculations, it is only counted as one default.
So when people talk about “the default date for a debt”, it is the first default date that matters. Not the ones for later months. The whole debt will disappear six years after the first default.
What can you do if a default date looks wrong?
For some examples of how these principles have been applied in practice, see these case studies that the Financial Ombudsman has reported. They should give you a better feel for whether you can get your credit record changed.
To correct a problem with a default on your credit file you should write/email the lender (or the debt collection agency if your debt has been sold by the original lender), putting COMPLAINT as the subject, explaining why you think it is wrong.
Don’t just copy out the guidance above, add the facts and dates which relate to your specific case. Some common examples would be:
- “I first missed payments to this debt in early 2015 and set up an arrangement to pay in June 2015”,
- “I only made token payments from 2012”
- “This debt was included in my debt management plan with Stepchange in March 2017” etc.
Then say what you think should happen to your credit record, do you want it deleted, added, or changed to be earlier? For example:
- “Please delete the default date because I was never three months in arrears according to the ICO rules.”
- “You never contacted me to say the account was in arrears so it is unreasonable to have added a default. I had later accounts with you so you knew my contact details. I paid the debt as soon as I found out about it.”
- “I would like you to add a default date in November 2015 in accordance with the ICO rules.”
- “According to the ICO rules the default date of September 2017 is too late and I would like you to change it to May 2014.”
- “the other creditors in my debt management plan added defaults in 2014, they have since dropped off my credit record. You should be using that same date, so please correct it.”
The credit reference agencies only report what they are told by the creditors, so complain to the creditor not Experian etc.
If you haven’t had your complaint to the lender sorted within 8 weeks, send it to the Financial Ombudsman.
Here is an example of an Ombudsman decision telling Nationwide to backdate a default date.
Be careful – will doing this “reset the clock”?
If you haven’t made any payments to a debt for years and you are hoping it will get to the 6 years point so the debt is statute-barred, it is probably best not to contact the lender at all. If you ask them to change the default date then this will acknowledge the debt and “reset the clock”. See Questions about Statute-barred debt for more information as the conditions for some debts becoming statute-barred have changed in January 2019.
But also read No calls all letters about a debt for years? Is very common for you to be contacted about an old debt just a few months before it reaches the 6-year statute-barred point. So unless this is very close, it’s probably not worth hoping this will happen and it’s better to get the default date sorted.
If the debt is already statute-barred (are you absolutely sure? read the above article) then you can safely ask for the default date to be changed as once a debt is statute-barred it will always remain barred.
Important – sometimes a default is good news!
Defaults sound bad, right? So getting one removed must be good?
This is probably the most confusing thing of all, but No!
It can often be better to have a default on your credit record. If there is a default against a debt, then the whole debt will “drop off” your file after six years, even if you haven’t repaid the debt. With no default, the record will not go away until six years after it is marked as settled/satisfied in some way.
So don’t rush into trying to get a default removed… and never try to get a default date changed to a later one because it will wreck your credit record for longer!
Your credit record isn’t the only thing that matters
You may wonder why you should pay a debt at all if it will go from your credit record after 6 years if you don’t pay it. There are two good reasons:
- it stops the creditor going to court for a CCJ, which would harm your credit record for another 6 years
- seeing that problem debt is settled makes other lenders more likely to give you credit.
Your credit score improves when a defaulted debt disappears, but the debt still legally exist. See Do I have to pay a debt that isn’t on my credit record? for more details.
A credit record default is NOT the same as a “Default Notice”
This article has looked at when a creditor marks your debt as “in default” with one of the credit reference agencies.
Confusingly, the word “default” is also used in the term “Default Notice”. Under the Consumer Credit Act, a lender has to send you a Default Notice before taking you to court over an unpaid consumer credit debt such as a loan or a credit card. This has nothing to do with informing a credit reference agency that your debt is in default – your credit file may be marked as in default even if the creditor has no intention of taking court action.
If you have read things like the lender has to send you a Default Notice 14 days before starting court action and if you pay the debt in full within this time the lender can’t go to court these aren’t referring to credit records at all. Anywhere you read the phrase Default Notice you are probably looking at information about possible CCJs, not credit records.
How much will my credit score change if…
FAQs on statute barred debt
When can you get a default deleted?
ian says
hi i was just wandering how to obtain a record of ccj that i had and some default notices i had from years ago for free
many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago and do you know who the creditor was?
Why do you need this?
ian says
Hi thank you for your quick reply i have been asked by provident to let them know of any ccjs i had and any default notices i had i seem to remember me having some but i cannot remember the dates i know i had a ccj of sandwell council fr non payment of council tax and i know i had some default notices off some finace companies who sold my debt to lovells
sorry for being a bit blank with these replys
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Non payment of council tax would technically be a liability order, not a CCJ (it comes from the magistrates court not the county court). You can send Sandwell a Subject Access Request asking for details of this
Ditto with Lowell – email dpo@lowellgroup.co.uk and say you want a Subject Access request for all of your personal data.
If the problems were a very long while ago, the data may not have been retained. I do wonder if the reason Provident says it expects to pay out about 10% whereas I think it should be less than 2% is that it is going to reject a lot of old claims saying there is no evidence. In this situation if there was continuous repeat lending from provident, the Ombudsman would usually have upheld your complaint :(
Louise says
Hi I was originally in debt and put into a “payment plan” January 2018, I made some payments as per the plan but was unable to keep them up. Eventually the company defaulted my account and sold to an external company. The date for default wasn’t until December 2019. Can I get this default date changed. It was a catalogue company.
Thankyou
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much were you paying? and when did you stop?
Louise says
Hi,
Originally was £70 every 4 weeks, then they made a new plan 17/07/18 £70 every 4 weeks starting 27/07/18, I made 9 payments, missing some payments inbetween, payment plan not finished.
They came up with another new payment plan 25/05/19 £153.42 every 4 weeks – duration 11 payments. I made payments end May 2019, end June 2019, then cleared by arrears 17/12/19 – they put the default in for 12/12/19.
Balance £464.56 transferred to Lowell, cleared with Lowell 06/01/20
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A default only has to be added when you are 3-6 months in arrears. What would the normal repayments have been before the payment arrangement?
louise says
I am trying to get my old statements, but i was in arrears from at least February 2018, until December 2019, although put on payment plans, i didn’t clear my arrears.
On says
Q: if a default notice was issued in 2017 January can the creditor placed that default on your credit file 12 months later? Or should it not be placed at first date/month of notice?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Technically the Default Notice has nothing to do with adding a default to your credit record. But there is a good reason to argue it shows the creditor regards the debt as being in default so they should have added a default to your credit record.
G says
Q: I have been in a DMP via StepChange since mid-2018, all of my accounts show the correct default dates around this time.
I had an overdraft with Lloyds current account at the time and this shows as ‘OK’ on my report all the way through to September 2020 when they then marked it as ‘Defaulted’ with well over £2500 balance left – so they knew in 2018 this would not be cleared.
I received notifications from Lloyds every 6 months requesting final balances and forwarded these to StepChange and continued payments, I didn’t even realise all of this until this month when trying to get a mortgage that this default in 2020 even existed – this is now causing me huge issues.
I have raised a complaint via Lloyds as the recovery team there were certain they had proceeded correctly as the 2020 date is when the debt was ‘passed over’ from the collections team to the recovery team(?!) – do I have any chance of getting this date moved back actually reflect me entering into the agreement with StepChange either with complaints or Ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did Lloyds stop charges on the account when the DMP started?
the accounts in your DMP – have they been paid off? When ?
G says
Lloyds stopped all charges and interest on my account from 2018, they moved it from an overdraft account to a ‘closed’ account in 2020 but had not charged any fee’s or interest during that period.
None of the accounts in my DMP are yet clear but will be in the next couple of months
DSs says
Did you get this date changed?
I have the same issue with Halifax
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so your argument is that Lloyds KNEW you were in a DMP as they had stopped charges. So they should have defaulted your account at that point.
Until your DMP has been settled you will find it very difficult to get a mortgage at an OK rate.
Rachel Hogbin says
This is my situation! Except the account that should have been defaulted and wasn’t was put on a dmp over six years ago. Since I stopped paying the dmp after six years the debt was sold and a default appeared on my account this April, I didn’t know because I’ve moved house. I’m devastated after six years with a clean sheet. What should I do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did you stop paying the DMP? How many debts were there in your DMP at that point?
Rich says
Hi there,
I have a debt with Lowell that came over to them from Creation in 2015. There is no default date registered. Previously they told me that no default date came over when the debt from Creation and adding one would simply put a default date of ‘now’ in place. I wrote to Creation regarding this and they never responded.
Lowell have written to me to offer me 50% to settle the account in full and I’m tempted, but recognise that the ‘partially satisfied’ tag would stay on my credit file for six years.
Is there a way to get the default date added as that could potentially make this debt fall off my credit file this year, and then I know if I partially settle there will be no record on my credit file.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I wrote to Creation regarding this and they never responded.
how long ago was this?
Rich says
About 4 months ago…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you can send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman still. If Creation add a default date, Lowell have to use it.
The other option is to say you will only make the settlement if they agree to add a default date when they bought the debt – but they may refuse.
John says
Hi Sara – I had a Capital One credit card from 2013 which went into 3+ months in arears several times until it was passed on to Hoist for collection. They added a default in July 2018 and the debt was repaid in full two months later. I want to ask to have the default date applied far earlier (as in IOC guidelines), the earliest opportunity being 66 months ago when it first went into arrears for three months. Should I contact Hoist as the debt is on my credit files named to them or Capital One who held the debt at the time of missed payments that I would like to add the default to?
Grateful for any advice you can offer as although the current default date is nearly three years old there are loads of missed payments showing and I would like to try and apply for a mortgage. Thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to ask Capital One. And they don’t have to do this unless the account was 6 months in arrears so this may not be easy.
John says
Thanks for the fast reply Sara! And the great advice – I’ll try a super polite approach. On a separate note, if I may, is it possible to claim the first £200 of tax paid on interest for any tax year provided that I was not a higher rate taxpayer in that year? I had a lot of successful claims for different tax years but I was only higher rate taxpayer in one of them and currently now, so am I able to claim for all the other years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you can – Each tax refund claim is for a separate tax year.
John says
Hi Sara – so I managed to get one date changed (Vanquis) no problem, they did it in a few days. The second one is more problematic (Aqua, not Capital One as I said). They have said the debt was sold on and their credit file for my account is deleted so they are unable to change. As I mentioned Hoist have the current listing on my files but I doubt they will change the default date to a previous date as the account was not with them at the time.
Can I ask for a note to be added to my files challenging this, or send a complaint to the FO or would these actions cause more trouble that they are worth? I think I need to resolve this to get considered for a mortgage. Any advice? Thanks …
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you repaid this debt?
John says
Yes, I repaid in full two months after the default had been applied (September 2018)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you still see the Aqua debt showing on your credit record?
John says
No there is no Aqua debt at all (which fits with their comment about deleting the record), only the Hoist record showing the default in July 2018 but with all the missed payments previously including the six month stretch when Aqua subsequently sold the debt on to them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well they can still change the default date by readding a record. You can threaten to go to the ombudsman if they don’t do this.
But if the default date was 2018 and you repaid it in a couple of months, you may be ok for amortgage anyway. Have you talked to a broker?
John says
Thanks for the fast replies Sara. Not talked to a broker yet but have seen all your great advice on this subject and so will do so when I look to apply. In the meantime I will respond to Aqua as you mention and politely drop in the intention to ask for the FO to review if Aqua stick with their final answer.
Rachel says
Hi John, could I ask how you got vanquis to change your default date? What did you say? I need to do this with them too, many thanks!
John says
Hi Rachel – sorry for the late reply, only just saw your message. OK so I wrote a very polite email to Vanquis via their complaints address for both bank / credit cards (customer.relations@vanquisbank.co.uk). I explained the situation in full and made sure that they understood that I took responsibility for the reason for the default & not dispute it, only the date applied and the reasons why.
I think you can catch more flies with honey! They made the change within 3 days and it showed on my credit file (Transunion) that week and then the others at month end when the files refreshed. I have to say I really hated Vanquis when everything went wrong, they were awful but in this situation they were great. I should also mention that I managed to get the Aqua one changed too (eventually) so it can be done, just persevere. Hope this helps Rachel, good luck! J
Derek smartt says
Hi I have a default on my credit file from lending stream dated 23/03/2016 in which they have sold the debt onto perch capital, they have pit a default date of 26/10/2017 as they say that is the correct date from the default notice letter I received from lending stream where do I stand with the default dates in question
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when did you stop making payments to LS?
Andy says
Hi Sara,
I recently settled an account with Lowell when they started contacting me over a £57 balance. When I contacted them to find out what it was for, apparently it was a final bill for a broadband account for my old home that I left in 2019. BT were given my new address when I left and I never received anything from them regarding this bill however, my problem is that this was never on my credit file either from BT or from Lowell. I paid the £57 and settled the account and 4 weeks later a default notice appeared on my file for the account all be it showing as satisfied which has completely destroyed my credit rating right when I am in the middle of a mortgage application.
1) Can Lowell do this considering its never been on there for the last 2 years?
2) Why are they even allowed to default me for a broadband account? It’s not credit account?
Any advice? TYIA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can complain to BT that they knew your new address so you should not have a default because they send the bill to the old one.
It is common for utilities to be shown on credit reports – and this includes deafults.
Rob says
Hello Sara,
I have 5 default loans which come off my credit report this year, 2 have recently been removed., the remainder by October 2021. I have 2 credit cards which were never marked as default although I paid them off as part of the DPM, which ended in July 2020. How long do the cards remain on my report as the debt was taken over by Lowell and Link finance which are well known. The cards are marked as paid and satisfied on my report but I am concerned about the two companies given their association with poor debt etc. Hope this makes sense. Will the cards be removed this year also? I started my DMP in June 2014. Thanks Rob.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Those debts will be deleted 6 years after the debt was settled.
It would be better if you ask the original lender to add a default back in 2014 or 2015, as the article above explains.
Dean says
Hi hoping you can help,
I have a loan where no payments have been made for 6 years and 6 months. I have always been in touch with the bank about my personal circumstances and no default was ever recorded and still hasn’t to date. I recently received a letter saying they were going to put a default against me unless I got in touch which I did.
My question is would I know be able to get in touch with them requesting they put a default on backdated to 6 years ago meaning it would disappear straight away and the account to be stat barred?
Thank you in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is your current financial situation?
how have you ever communicated with the bank – always phone? or sometimes email / secure message / letter?
You have been out of work for over 6 years? Do you have health problems?
Do you have other debts?
Dean says
I am still out of work and struggle daily and the Covid hasn’t helped.
All contact has always been done over the phone.
I have quite a few health problems which led to me not been able to work and yes I have quite a few other debts too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
To answer your question – yes you can ask them to add a default back 6 years ago and then it would disappear.
BUT that does not necessarily mean the debt is statute barred – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/.
And if it isn’t statute barred, then asking for the defualt date to be changed may will constitute acknowledging the debt and so stop it becoming statute barred.
I think you should talk to your local Citizens Advice about this and your other debts and your options. Because of your long ill-health, asking for the debts to be written off may be a good move, in which case it is often better to get a debt adviser to write the letter.
JOSEPH WICKES says
What do I do in the following situation :
I owed an Argos store card £500
I joined stepchange in January 2019
Since this date the account has been listed as ‘ in arrears ‘
Payments have been made successfully every month
I have just been informed that as of May 31st 2021 the account will be changed to ‘ in default ‘
Why are they 2+ years late in defaulting the account and what can I do about this ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can ask Argos to backdate the default to the start of your DMP.
JOSEPH WICKES says
Thanks for the advice sara
Do I literally just ask outright or is there a procedure I need to follow ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above covers what the default date should be and what to say to a lender.
JOSEPH WICKES says
All sorted 6 hours on the Phone between Argos / moorcroft and stepchange – credit file to be repaired with the default removed and £50 compensation for the time spent being a middle man – thanks Sara !
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that was fast! Well done.
Simon says
Hi
So i have 4 credit cards that equal around 16k and ll have been marked as default as of April 2019 apart from 1 VANQUIST. I plan on making partial settlements to the 4 other credit card of around 75% and pay VANQUIST off in in which is 3.6k total by the end of September 2022.
i am concerned after reading this in the article
It can often be better to have a default on your credit record. If there is a default against a debt, then the whole debt will “drop off” your file after six years, even if you haven’t repaid the debt. With no default, the record will not go away until six years after it is marked as settled/satisfied in some way.
so this part :- With no default, the record will not go away until six years after it is marked as settled/satisfied in some way.
when i entered my DMP VANQUIST sent me a letter saying they had accepted my smaller payments but they would close the account once it was paid in full which i am fine with but will this look bad on my credit file? the fact they have never put a default on and i am going to pay them in full then thy will close the account?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Vanquis has marked the credit record as being in a payment arrangement?
Simon says
No. There is thing on my credit file. It just shows as “up to date” whilst the rest are marked as “default”
But as i say they sebt me a letter accepting the lower payment because of my DMP with PAYPLAN but stated on the letter that the account would be closed when paid in full.
I am just worried that it may effect my credit file for a further 6 years once paid off in full
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t really guess what will happen as it seems as though Vanquis has made an error in not marking your credit record as being in a payment arrangement. They may never notice and all will be fine. or they may notice and correct this.
Simon says
I’m hoping they won’t i think they will if i made a partial payment to them but i’m going to pay them in full and hopefully even if they close the account afterwards it will just show as closed and nothing else, just like a loan when its paid off is classed as paid and closed.
If they do put something on it could i get themcto back date it from 2019 possibly?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Possibly.
Yash says
Hi Sara,
Hope you are keeping well and thank you for all your kind effort to help us so helpless people.
I wrote to you sometime back last year about debts and CCJ. I’ve now cleared most of them. Except a credit card from Santander and a loan from HSBC. Santander fell off my credit file as it’s past six years though I am still continuing to pay agreed instalments. But, HSBC changed my default date from March 2015 to April 2016 just before it disappears from my report. I raised a dispute with Equifax and spoke to HSBC too, they said it was defaulted in March 2015 but they closed my account in April 2016. Hence the change of date is right. But, it stayed as default from 2013 to be honest and finally they put a date of March 2015 and it stayed like that for almost 6 years until February 2021. When I spoke to HSBC, they asked me to email. But, never replied back, the changed report shows a fresh default date of April 2016 and they also changed my address on agreement to my current address rather than my previous address where I took the loan. Is there a way that I can show you credit files? So that you can understand better? And suggest me a solution please.
Many Thanks,
Yash
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you sent HSBC a complaint about this change of date?
Yash says
Hi Sara,
Yes. I did write to hsbc.collections@hsbc.com. That’s the email address hsbc asked me to write when I spoke to them about this.
Thanks,
Yash
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago was this? Was it clear it was a complaint?
Yash says
I wrote to them on 25/05/2021
I didn’t particularly mention complaint. But, it sounded like a grievance and I asked them for a copy of my loan account ever since it started, my payments, when was the first payment missed and all the missed payments until it was closed and passed onto debt collectors (Moorcroft). Though I was paying ever week, my balance isn’t reducing on the file.
I also mentioned in the email that I need the loan account transactions so that I can take those to Ombudsmen, if it cannot be resolved by HSBS
Yash
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so they have had this for less than 8 weeks.
I suggest you email them now and ask when you will be receiving an answer to the complaint you sent on 25 May.
Yash SV says
Hi Sara,
It’s past 8 weeks now and I didn’t hear anything from HSBC. Please suggest the next course of action on how to approach Ombudsman.
Many Thanks,
Yash
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can complain to the Ombudsman here https://help.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/help.
But really I would phone them up and ask why you have not had a reply first.
Yash says
Hi again Sara,
I am not sure if this reply attaches to my questions thread from last year. But, I am believing and continuing my conversation.
As suggested by you, I did get in touch with Financial Ombudsman and they got in touch with HSBC and they agreed that it was their mistake and removed the default from my credit report. I was paying a minimum amount to Moorcroft all these years and my direct debit bounced a few months back as I became unemployed and living on benefits now. I got in touch with Moorcroft and explained them my financial situation and they agreed to pause my token payments and will get in touch with me in a few months, I didn’t hear from them later. I received a letter from Credit Security last week asking if So and So person (my name) lives here and included my previous address . I ignored the letter as it didn’t state any account details. But, I received another letter today with HSBC account details and due amount and asked me to get in touch, I called Moorcroft and they informed me that HSBC recalled my account from Moorcroft and perhaps sold it to Credit Security. I am worried what to do now. It’s well past 6 years and it dropped from my credit file. But, I was paying token amount Moorcroft until a few months back. But, not directly to HSBC though. Can Credit security take me to court on this debt? and Can they put it back on my credit file again?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does the last letter from Credit Security say they now own this debt? or that they are collecting on behalf of HSBC?
Yash says
Hi Sara,
The letter says “We are a specialist Debt Collection agency who have been instructed to collect the above outstanding debt owed to HSBC UK Bank plc” and the rest is about hardship due to covid etc. one of their agents will call in few days.
Thanks,
Cash
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, HSBC haven’t sold it. They have just changed moorcroft for a different debt collector.
You need to explain your situation to them, just like you did with moorcroft. This should make no difference to your credit record.
Yash says
Thanks Sara. so helpful as always. One more question please, Can either of them put a default again on my credit file or take me to court, if I miss payments as I am not really in a good place right now (financially)
Many Thanks,
Yash
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no, this debt should never reappear, even if it is sold to a debt collector 9which it hasn’t been at the moment.)
But any creditor, HSBC or a debt collector that buys it, can take you to court for a CCJ. You have been paying until recently so this debt is nowhere near being statute barred.
That doesn’t mean it is likely to happen if you talk to the creditor and any debt collector they ask to collect the debt. Explain your situation. It worked fine with Moorcroft, didn’t it.
Kay says
Hi Sara, hope your well! I just wondered if you could help with another query of mine. I have a really old account that was with Fashion World and transferred to Lowell in 2013. No default date was ever added even though I entered into a DMP and was paying less than the minimum monthly payments. I sent a complaint to Fashion World to change the default date as I want the Lowell account off my record as it looks bad IMO as it’s showing that my credit limit is £2 even though I owe about £1200 and they are saying the account was never in default. Can they do this if they agreed to reduced monthly payments less than the minimum amount? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes they can add a default back then, and it will drop off. How much do you still owe?
Kay says
I still owe around 1200 now but fashion world are trying to say that because they agreed a monthly payment and I paid each month that I never defaulted and so they will not enter a default date? Kay
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So these aren’t always easy to win but if you don’t try you are stuck with it on your credit record…
Have you sent them a formal complaint? The point is that you are in arrears against what your contractual payments were and that when they got to 6 months they should have registered a default according to the SCOR principles, see article above for the link to these. And that by not registering a default when you are making such low payments they are treating you unfairly as your credit record will be harmed for much longer.
If you haven’t sent a formal complaint, do this now. If you have and they have rejected it, send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Come back and say how you get on?
Kay says
Thanks Sarah, I did send a formal complaint but they have rejected it in their final response. I had a similar one with Shop Direct which is with Cabot Financial and they removed the default and the situation was the same with a similar balance. I will send to the FO and let you know how I get on. Thanks, Kady
Sara (Debt Camel) says
With the Cabot one, you could now consider asking Cabot, not shop Direct, to produce the CCA agreement for the debt – if they can’t it is unenforceable and you can simply stop paying it. You can also look at doing this for any other loans, credit cards and catalogue debts in your DMP that you are still paying. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/
Best wait until the FW debt is off the credit record before trying this.
Kay says
Great thanks Sara for all your advice and quick responses. Your site is really informative and I also used it last year to help me complain to the FO about an Amigo loan which I won and got a refund on all interest paid! I feel
like my past bad credit history has been haunting me forever but finally feel like I can see some light at the end of this tunnel. I wouldn’t have even attempted to complain had this site not been here so thank you 🙏🏻
glyn says
Hello Sara,
I have recently looked at my credit score file and i see a Cabot financial account sitting there, it says that a default was added on the 6th of Feb 2013 and was updated on the 15th Aug 2019 which by my account means it has sat there for eight years and four months .
The amount is for £320 and it says credit card but around that time i was suffering from a couple of illnesses and can honestly not remember what or who it is for , so my message is a simple one can it be kept on my file for so many years when i have never admitted the debt or paid anything towards it.
Keep up the good works you do and stay safe.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has Cabot ever contacted you about this?
glyn says
I cant remember ever talking to anyone as i suffer from a mental health problem due to PTSD in 1974 which wasnt treated so my memory is poor i do remember i could not answer the door for a long long time due to the above .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so I suggest you contact Cabot and say:
– you have just seen this entry on your credit record, you do not know what debt it relates to as you have had mental health problems which means you have a poor memory.
– you do not remember being contacted about this debt by Cabot before,
– ask Cabot to tell you who the original lender was and to supply the Consumer Credit Act Agreement for the debt.
– point out the credit record says that no payment has been made since Feb 2013 (if that is correct? do any payments show?) so the debt is statute barred and should have had a default added in 2013.
– say in view of your health problems and the age of the debt you would like Cabot to write the debt off and add a default to the credit record back in 2013 so that it drops off your credit record.
– ask for your case to be looked at by the vulnerable customer team as you still have mental health problems and for all communications to be by email.
Cabot may ask for some letter from your doctor about your health problems.
glyn says
Thank you for your reply Sara
I have just looked at my file again and it just shows no data but only goes back to 2015 which i presume is the six years they go back to.
Would it be best to write a letter or an e mail or send both ?, and yes my doctor would be more than willing to write me a letter as i have a very good relationship with him .
I will put in the points that you have mentioned to me and i will let you know how i get on as your help is so important to people who fall into problems through many different ways.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think an email is best if you check your emails regularly. Post can be unreliable and you have to pay for a stamp!
They don’t give a normal contact email so I suggest you use complaints@cabotfinancial.com and say you do not want to speak on the phone.
Carol says
Hi Can I have some advice please, I was in arrears with Shop Direct, from Early 2018 until end of Dec 2019, i was put on numerous payment plans to clear the debt, which never cleared, so I was always in arrears. The payments I was making were less than contractual payments.
Final payment was 29/06/19, shop direct transferred to Lowell and defaulted 12 Dec 19.
I have read that perhaps this default can be moved to when I was first in arrears, however, Lowell state
‘From the information you’ve provided, it seems that Shop Direct tried to help you find an affordable payment plan to avoid defaulting your account. When payments ceased altogether, they applied a default four months after the date of your final payment. On this basis, I’m afraid, we would consider that our client acted correctly, and as such, we wouldn’t see a basis for amending the default date.”
Is this correct? Thank you for your help with this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It depends a lot how patchy your repayments to SD were. But you will do better to have this argument with SD, not Lowell. If you can get SD to add an earlier default date, Lowell will have to use that.
Carol says
To begin with it was one month yes, one month no with payments.
I tried with Shop Direct and they said as Lowell hold the credit reference entry now they will not comment, they said I should go to Lowell with any queries.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
reply to SD that you will be sending your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman if they do not add a default date in 2018.
Carol says
Thank you I will try that, of course the email they sent is “Do not reply”
Carol says
Yes SD are holding firm and refusing to do anything as it is in Lowells name now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
send a complaint to the Finaical Ombudsman about this then.
Max says
Hi Sara,
I think I created some unnecessary mess and need some advice. I defaulted on two pay day loans, one from Sunny and one from Mr Lender. Both were passed on to Motormile initially who chased me up for payment. They stopped chasing me for this in around Dec 2017. Both the loans were reported on my credit file as settled; not defaulted although they showed missed payments and only reported on Transunion.
I raised a query through Transunion asking them to put a default date on these accounts . Transunion initially suppressed both accounts as the lenders failed to respond. I think the Sunny account will be okay and stay suppressed because they have now gone into admin. The Mr Lender account was also suppressed until recently, where it has reappeared in my credit report. Assuming because they responded to Transunion’s query. Mr Lender have put a default on, however, they have put a default on for March 2021 instead of 2015. I have at no point made a payment to Mr Lender. I contacted Lantern and Moriarty law recently who are now the owners of the debt and was told that this debt is statue barred. Mr. Lender also reported that I made payments in 2020 which I did not. What is the best course of action here? Firstly, can Mr Lender register a default now given that it is over 6 years since I made a payment to do this and secondly that this account was sold to MMF. I have emails from MMF dated November 2015 confirming account assignment.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think the Sunny account will be okay and stay suppressed because they have now gone into admin.
That sounds right.
If you are hoping to argue this debt is statute barred, that sounds a bit thin – what date was the loan? did you ever make a payment to it? did you ever get a defulat Notice?
Did you have previous loans from Mr Lender before this one?
Max says
Thanks for the response . The date of the loan was 20/01/2015. I did have an arrangement to pay setup on 13/05/2015, however , I did not make any payment towards this and this was my last contact with Mr Lender . After that , I received an email from MMF in November 2015 stating account assignment . This was the one and only loan from Mr Lender . I am not sure of the default notice as I had moved by then and did not update my address with Mr Lender . Even if I leave the statue barred stuff aside , I just want them to put a correct default date on the account which in my opinion at the very latest should be November 2015 when the account was closed from Mr Lenders side and sold on to MMF. The account is still assigned to Lantern now who have passed it on to Moriarty for collection . How Can Mr Lender register a default only on March 2021 when I have not made a single payment from January 2015 til date ? What would you advise as next steps ?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So unless this loan was very large, you have no chance of winning an affordability complaint against Mr Lender.
Mt Lender should have added a default in 2015 – November at the very latest as you say. Send Mr Lender a complaint usinf the arguments in the article above. And send it to the Ombudsman if Mr Lender refuses to change this date.
Max says
I have no intentions of making affordability complaints, I don’t even care about the statue barred status. If I have to pay this back now, I am willing to do so too, only reason I hadn’t was because I wasn’t contacted about it since 2017. But after querying my credit file through Transunion, this seems to have completely backfired.
Excellent, I will contact Mr Lender in the first instance and see what they say, if not, I will escalate this. I hope they address this as this will be the last bit of adverse credit left on my file. Thank you for the advice.
Max says
Hi again Sara,
Just called Mr Lender up to enquire and they told me that they don’t issue default status for anyone any longer . That is so strange . They said that they only record as overdue and they also confirmed that my account is now managed by Lantern . I have told them that my account is now showing a defaulted status from March 2021 so they have asked me to send a screenshot of the credit report for them to look into . I find it strange that they refuse to serve default notices . They said they send letters warning people but never put the account in actual default . Isn’t there guidance or maybe definitive rules around recording credit information ? Could they then keep recording the account as overdue each month ? By this logic , my account will currently be 60 months overdue and will be in limbo until closed off . I didn’t quite buy what the guy told me but I will follow this up in an email .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Serving a Default Notice” has got nothing to do with “adding a default to your credit record”
A Default Notice is a technical requirement under the Consumer Credit Act if they want to take you to court.
They are obliged by the SCOR principles (see article above) to report accurately to the credit reference agencies and a default should be added when you are 3-6 months in arrears. Tell them you are making a formal complaint about this and will be sending it to the Ombudsman if they do not correct your credit record.
Max says
I have sent a formal complaint email to enquiries@mrlender.do.uk it’s an absolute pain to find a contact email address on the website and you have to go through the enquiry form but I managed to find one through my check my file account . I have stated the facts and told them that my account had been 6 months overdue by July 2015 and they should have registered a default then and sent them screenshots from Transunion showing default markers from March 2021 so let’s see . I am hoping they will just rectify this and put a default marker for July 2015 or worst case November 2015. The FOS will probably drag this out for another 2/3 months .
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
let me know if that email address works!
Hayley says
So I had a student overdraft back in 2009! I was paying it off slowly through a debt management and it was about £1k left but I stopped paying it and to be honest just forgot about it. I moved home in 2014 and have never received letters from them or made any further payments. It wasn’t even appearing on my credit report as having an account with them. It has now appeared on my credit report as a default this year and is destroying my report. I’m worried to contact them in case it is not barred. How do I approach this without resetting the clock?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is still showing under the bank? Not been sold to a debt collector?
Hayley says
It’s still just showing under my bank and says default. Hasn’t been sold on as far as I know. The HSBC bank account has only recently been added to my credit report too. It never use to appear
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you know roughly when you stopped paying it?
were you using a debt management firm?
what does your credit report say the balance is now?
and the default date is in 2021?
Hayley says
I stopped roughly 2013 and I was using a debt management firm at the time. My credit report was update feb 2021 and that’s when it was added to my report. The balance is now £1895! It says default but nothing is updated every month. The little dots every month on my report are all empty (if you know what I mean). I’m too worried to contact them.
Paul says
Hi, I had a current account with Lloyds which went in to an unarranged overdraft in 2017. I lost my job and then my home and the debt is now being chased by Capquest. If the debt has been passed on/sold to Capquest, will it automatically be marked as defaulted?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not necessarily.
Do you have a lot of other debt dating from that time? New debt?
LB says
Hi Sara,
I contacted Likely Loans and managed to have the interest removed from a loan of £5,000 which I took out in March 2017.
They defaulted the loan some long time ago but have now sent an email saying that they will default the loan if not paid back in full by a given date.
Can they default again if already defaulted?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did they remove the default when they decided the loan was unaffordable?
LB says
“I confirm that we will remove all historic negative markers, including the default that was registered on the account.
I can also confirm that we can continue to set plans for you to suit your affordability based on regular assessments of your account and that we will not be adding any additional interest or charges and will not be recording any negative markers going forward.”
I have looked at one of the credit reference agencies, clearscore and the original default is still there, although this could take time to be removed.
I am now not sure what they intend by sending this new notice of intended default today.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago was that decision?
LB says
This was 26th May 2021.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh that is very recent. it may take a month or two for that to be done.
My guess is you have been sent an automatic email that is generated because you are in arrears and they do NOT intend to add a new default to your credit record when they have removed the old one.
Have you agreed a monthly payments?
Do you have other problem debts?
LB says
I see.
Monthly payments had already been agreed and I am paying these each month.
Yes I have other debts which I am currently paying by arrangement .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, if all the payments arrangements are affordable, that is fine. It can be easy to agree to several arrangements which add up to to much though – if yoiu are struggling then dumping them all into a DMP with StepChange can often be a good idea – then SC will give LL their correct share of the amount you can afford each month.
Kyle says
Hi Sara.
Based on your advice I have made complaints to 4 companies that have registered defaults on my file. All 4 of them have default dates registered significantly later than when the account fell 3 months into arrears.
Barclaycard for example I entered an arrangement to pay making token payments for a year in January 2016 and the default date on the account is August 2019.
What is the likelihood in your opinion of these companies agreement to amend the default date to when the account first fell behind by 3 months? It would make such a huge difference to me if they do as my file will be clean in circa 18 months rather than 4 years!
Do you recommend sending the complaints to the Ombudsman if they refuse to help? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The SCOR rules say 3-6 months. 6 months would be a good result for you?
Are these all credit cards?
Have you cleared these debts? If not, have they been sold to debt collectors?
Did you have other debts where no defaults were added but just arrears?
Kyle says
Hi Sara.
Thanks for your reply.
There are 4 accounts currently defaulted…
Barclaycard, currently still with Barclaycard
Vanquis, now with Arrow Global
Aqua, now with Link Financial
Capital One, still with Capital One
All 4 accounts are showing as defaulted between 6-24 months ago, but all 4 accounts first fell seriously behind around 4 and a half/5 years ago.
None of the debts have been cleared yet no, they are all in payment arrangements but those arrangements are all being paid on time on the agreed date.
Thank you so much for your advce!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So are those your only 4 debts?
Kyle says
No, I have a couple of other credit cards that I use and keep up to date in usual working order. Basically to build my credit.
I’m curious as to why you ask if they are my only debts?
Thanks again!
Kyle says
Forgot to add that the Arrow Global complaint was made 8 weeks ago, due a response on the 25th of this month so I shall let you know what happens. That default was recorded after 24 months of no payments at all, 4 and a half years after the debt was sold!
Bonnie says
Hi Sara,
Thanks so much for all your information here. I had a Quickquid loan that defaulted August 2017 (according to Experian). I have gone into communications from Quickquid around that time and they actually have a number of errors on them; the most significant one being that the loan number is incorrect , as well as the date of issue. Do you feel this warrants grounds to contest the default mark?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That isn’t clear. QuickQuid are in administration – if you talk to them at the moment you probably won’t get anywhere as they really don’t care about what they see as minor points… but if you wait 6-12 months when the administration has moved on, the administrators will probably have stopped communicating with the credit reference agencies – at that point you can contact the CRAs and say the information on the debt record is wrong and you cannot get the administrators to talk to you about correcting it so you want the CRAs to suppress the record. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/correct-credit-records-lender-administration/.
But it is too early to do this now… come back in 6 months and ask on the QuickQuid page: https://debtcamel.co.uk/quickquid-casheuronet-administration/
Ajay says
Hi, I was served with a default notice and had 14 days to pay the remaining balance on my CC and loan bill. I rang up First Direct who failed to confirm if I pay the full amount within 28 days after the notice was served would the ‘default’ not be on my credit record. Because what he was saying contradicted what the notice said. Do I have any legal grounds if they fail to issue a default within 28 days? And do they have to send a letter confirming I am in default. After 14 days they said it’ll be passed onto HSBC repayments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What is your situation? How many HSBC CC and loan payments have you missed?
Have you missed payments to other debts? Are you behind on any bills?
I am not sure if you want the default on your credit record or if you are trying to avoid it!
Can you afford to make the payments the default notice has said, without borrowing any more money?
Richard S says
Hi Sara,
I have 1 default with Barclaycard, since sold to PRA Group, I’ve been making payments towards this for the last 2 years and PRA have been fine. The first payment was missed November 2016 and the default date is 29th June, so I think this is later than it should be.
I have made a complaint with Barclaycard saying that they have the wrong date, they also sent me a letter last year apologising for how they dealt with customers in financial difficulty at the time in which I defaulted.
Whilst I doubt there is any chance they will remove the default notice, I want them to backdate it to when I first missed payment as I said I wouldn’t be able to meet the contractual payment and would be defaulting and will make a repayment plan with no interest and charges. Do you think it’s likely they’ll backdate the default to October or January (3 missed payments)?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unlikely. The rules say 3-6 months in arrears.
Richard S says
Thank you for your help. I was just wondering whether it would be worth applying for a mortgage with my partner now as her credit file is clean and I have this one unsatisfied default or to wait the 2 years till it drops off to apply
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to settle this debt. Having it drop off your credit record is not enough. How long until it is repaid?
JP says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for the article. I have been in a DMP for just over a year now with around 10 creditors. All but 1 have defaulted me, but with massively varying dates. Some applied a default 1 month into my DMP, with some into applying them last month.
With the creditors who have applied “late” ones, is it worth challenging them as they are up to a year after the others?
Also the creditor that hasn’t defaulted me – yet – is it advisable asking them to?
And finally – not all of my credit accounts are showing on all of the credit agencies. Infact only CreditKarma shows the most accurate reflection of my debt. Should I be concerned about that?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are your debts and how much are you paying a month? This affects when a creditor has to register a default.
JP says
In total my debts are around 28k. However the 2 that haven’t registered defaults are around the £3100 mark.
I am paying £35 a month for each of them Thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok so you are paying about £4000 a year to the DMP so if interest is frozen the DMP would end in 7 more years, is that correct?
Have all the creditors stopped adding interest?
Do you think the current payments are sustainable, are they more likely to go up or down over the next few years? I assume you don’t have any priority debts or arrears on bills that are not included in your DMP.? An overdraft is not included?
The creditor who has not added a default, what are they being paid each month compared to what the normal debt repayments were?
JP says
Hi Sara,
Yes I paying 324 a month to the DMP so around 3800 a year. All creditors have stopped interest.
I can’t recall the exact payment pre- DMP but I imagine it would have been around double what I pay now, which is around £35 each to the two non-defaulted debts.
My council tax and mortgage are all up to date with no arrears and are obviously not included in my DMP, and there is no Overdraft.
Over the next few years I am due some pay rises and I expect my financial situation to improve so I will be able to pay more into clearing my debts
Thanks again,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So there are 2 non defaulted debts? You definitely want a default added for those – defaults drop off 6 years after the default date. non defaulted debts drop off 6 years after you have finished paying them.
I suggest you ask them to add a default now. Point out how many years until the DMP ends.
The rules say lenders have to add a default when a debt is 3-6 months in arrears. If you are paying a creditor half of what they would have normally been paid, that will happen 6-112 months into your DMP. You can ask the creditors who have added default debts late in the first year to backdate them but this is a less strong case.
If you can later get any full and final settlement offers accepted, that will speed up your DMP ending.
JP says
Thanks for your help. Are there any template letters available anywhere for asking for defaults added / changed?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, these are quite individual situations. Read the article above and put in your complaint to each lender the details that are relevant for the,
JP says
Hi Sara,
Thanks again for all the above help. Since complaining I can confirm that 3 of my creditors have all agreed with my complaint and backdated my default to with in 3 months of starting my DMP
However, Virgin have disagreed with my complaint and there final response is that it was applied in June 2021 (14 months AFTER I entered the DMP). They cite that I have been in various “payment holidays” and “hardship plans” and therefore not in default. Even by their own timeline of events I still cannot see how they have come to a date of June 2021.
This is their final response and for me to appeal I have to go to the financial ombudsman. I have had no correspondence from them saying I am in a hardship plan, as far as I am aware I have not met contractual payments since April 2020, and I can’t see how Virgin have come up with a massively different date to all my other creditors. Do you have any further advice, is it worth pursuing this through the Ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s up to you. If you don’t get this changed, the default will be on your credit record for longer. FOS decisions on this are sometimes erratic, but why not complaint and provide evidence of how other lenders have been reasonable and backdate the default date? Your argumant is that Virgin are treating you unfairly by prolonging the time this will harm your credit record.
Oli says
Hi
Just a few questions:
1. I have emailed Cabot & Virgin Money requesting that the default date be corrected as to when I went on the DMP or within the normal timeframe as opposed to 10 months later when the debt was sold. I have done this about 5 times since April & Cabot responded saying they will forward my complaint to Virgin to correct this. Virgin complaints team has ignored all of my emails. I’ve gone to the Ombudsman about Virgin. Was I right to do this?
2. I’ve sent a CCA request to Cabot who’s said that they do not have this info and they need to obtain it from Virgin (account from 2011). It’s been about 6 weeks since I’ve made the request, 3 weeks ago Cabot said the debt was unenforceable until they are able to provide this, but I should keep making payments?
3. My DMP paid off except for the Cabot debt and I’m paying them £540. At this rate it would be paid off in just a few months, but the Ombudsman has said it would take months to deal with my complaint. I want to slow down payments to Cabot until I get a decision from the Ombudsman. Am I right to cancel the DMP and make a lesser payment than £540, say £200 a month? Will Cabot charge me interest knowing that they can’t obtain the original CCA?
4. Should the Cabot debt be on my credit file if they cannot obtain the original CCA from Virgin?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1. A lender should add a default when you are 3-6 months in arrears, so 10 months into your DMP is probably a bit late. But you may not get it backdated much.
2. thats up to you. I normally suggest you make payments for a couple of months after asking, but you can stop now if you want.
3. You only owe £1500? and can repay within a few months?
As I said you can stop paying now if you want. But I don’t see why you would want to pay £200 a month. If Cabot aren’t charging you interest now, they are not going to suddenly start.
4. yes. Not finding a CCA doesnt mean that a debt should be removed. What date is the current default date?
Oli says
Brilliant, thanks Sara!!!
To answer your questions:
1. I don’t mind that much, all my other debts have defaults around April 2018, to have the Virgin Money one marked at a similar date would be good. But they marked it as Dec 2018.
2. Great, if I stop now what will be marker on my credit report be? I’m guessing satisfied, right? I have other satisfied markers and I’m guessing that even if I pay the full debt, with a default registered, I’d still get the same satisfied marker. I’m thinking of paying a lower monthly repayment for a few months, then making a final settlement offer say about £800 less, which would be a 40% settlement.
3. I actually owe £2k, no Cabot never charged me any interest, so I guess they can’t start now based on your answer, especially as they can’t find the original CCA.
4. The default date is Dec 2018 from when Virgin sold the debt to Cabot. The original Virgin Credit was taken out in March 2011.
Oli
Sara (Debt Camel) says
2. It won’t be marked as satisfied unless it has been settled. Stopping paying leaves or showing as defaulted with an open balance owing
I can’t see the point if making lower payments fir a few months. If they produce the CCA you have to pay. If they don’t then why pay anything. But it’s up to you.
They may not accept a low settlement even if they can’t produce the CCA. They know this is on your file until 2024 and you oroba Want this settled.
N R says
Dear Sara
Missed Payments.
I recently find out that I have missed a payment on a utility bill when I applied for new mortgage.
I moved out of a property and did not get final bill on time but I did inform the company (E-On) that I was moving out on a certain date and asked them to close my account.
They have reported 6 missed payments in my credit file.
I moved out of the property on 12 April 2020. E-On has reported missed payments from March 2020 till June 2020 ( 4 Months). Then another two missed payments in May-June 2021, whereas the account was closed in April 2020.
I like to ask; can the company report missed payments for the months of March, April, May and June 2020?? .
Or they can only report a missed payment for the final Bill, which was for April 2020?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I did inform the company (E-On) that I was moving out on a certain date and asked them to close my account.
did you give them your new address? did you have a direct debit that you cancelled? did you ever see a final bill and if so, when did you pay it?
NR says
In Jan 2020 I realized I was paying too much. £190 each month through DD. My account was £218 in Credit and estimated units were 2000 plus than actual units. I cancelled the DD and asked them to send quarterly bill instead, with the view that I will be moving out soon.
They send me £701 final bill (estimated) which was wrong; on my new address. I asked them to send me amended bill. They told me they send the final bill for £368 which I missed/ I do not recall seeing it.
In June 2021, I find out about the missed payments. I made the full payment at the end of June 2021.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am not sure why March shows as a missed payments, unless you were sent a quarterly bill in March you didn’t pay? But it sounds as though missed payments for April, May and (possibly) June were right.
NR says
How about missed payments for May and June 2021??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you haven’t paid the April bill in May or June…
NR says
Just to clarify,
I have two sets of missed payments on my credit file.
1. MARCH -JUNE 2020
2. MAY and June 2021
From the same company under the same account.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah I missed the years!
But in that case I don’t know why you don’t have missed payments through from Jun20 until you paid the bill in July 21. ..
Robert says
Hi Sara, hope all is well.
My partner got her credit file and it states she defaulted on a Natwest student account (£365) she’d had for 15 years. There had been a standing order in place and it came off or she may have cancelled it – she’s trying to figure out. This all happened in 2018 while she was living in Ireland.
A leading mortgage adviser who has insight into Natwest has said that it’s actually quite unusual that Natwest put a default after 3 months. They suggested contacting them to see what can be done with this… Could this work for the standing order, being out of the country, or asking for a good will gesture/judgement??
It would be super to hear your thoughts/advice if possible. Many thanks, Robert
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did Natwest try to contact her? If they couldn’t, that might explain the default. If she isn’t using the account and the only movement was the SO, then that being cancelled looks like she was abandoning the account. Was the SO from another Natwest account?
Lauren says
Hi Sara,
Following up on Robert’s question, and thank you so much for your reply.
I can confirm that the SO was with Lloyds to my Student/Graduate account. I was away in Ireland at the time and missed the letters from NatWest, however as soon as i got back i paid off the overdraft balance to Moorcroft and closed the account over two months. While paying this back and the matter was “satisfied
” by NatWest a Default was added to my account. In my credit report Experian is showing as two defaults and status unknown. I wondering if i have a case to contest and get this removed? I was a customer for over 15 years and this was the first time that there was a late payment, at the same time my SO stopped unfortunately.
Thank you so much for your help in advance. Any advice on next step would be appreacited.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago was the overdraft paid off?
(Sorry i wrote Nationwide in my previous reply – I meant NatWest. Now corrected.)
Lauren Dryden says
Thanks Sara :-) overdraft fully paid off and closed account in September 2018. Paid off the debt company straight away and still have a default?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If this is the only problem on your credit record you should still be able to get a mortgage at an OK rate if you have a reasonable deposit. Talk to a good broker.
You can try asking for them to remove the default in a goodwill gesture. But after 3 months if you ignored the letters they Are entitled to add one.
kirsty masterton says
I had a Cahoot flexible loan. When my marriage ended I couldn’t afford the minimum contractual payment.
Between October 2015 and January 2017 I made token payments. This was reported monthly on my credit file as a missed payment.
Santander defaulted the account 15 months later in February 2017.
After reading similar scenarios on this forum and other advice sites I complained to Santander and asked them to move the default date to a maximum of 6 months after I stopped making the contractual payments, so April 2016 at the latest.
Santander responded and said:
‘For Santander when your account reaches 5 months of arrears we issue a notice of intent to default. Your account reached this threshold in January 2017’
I spoke to their complaints handler who suggested the arrears have to reach a monetary amount. He agreed I broke the contract and my credit file reported 15 monthly missed payments. But they will not change the date of the default.
I’ve explained I have been disadvantaged against someone who made no attempt to pay which is against the SCOR guidance. If I’d made no effort to pay the default would be removed in April 2022, rather than February 2023.
I’ve asked for a record of the actual contractual payments required and what I paid to show I clearly broke the contract.
I intended to make a complaint to the FS0. But do I have a case or am I completely missing Santander’s point?
I’d really appreciate some help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large were the token payments? And what should the minimum contractual payment have been?
Kirsty says
Thanks Sara.
The contractual payment was around £140 and I usually paid about £30.
In October 2015 I contacted Santander because I was in financial difficulty and after making a complaint about them applying interest they agreed to credit my loan account with £905.
However, I’ve learnt today that they never applied this to my account. This wouldn’t have cleared the arrears and potentially prevented a default.
They’ve escalated the complaint and asked to ‘bear with them’.
I am totally shocked about this latest development and have no idea what theyay do….or not?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so if they agree to remove the default that is great.
If they don’t, then you need to go back to them and point out they said
“For Santander when your account reaches 5 months of arrears we issue a notice of intent to default. Your account reached this threshold in January 2017”
but you were only paying £30 a month when you should have been paying £140 a month. 5 months of arrears would be when you owed ££700 (5 * 140). You were getting behind by £120 a month so this would happen after 6 months. That would have been in March 2018 so that is when they should have issued the notice of intent to default, not January 2017.
LB says
Hi Sara, I am continuing to try to improve and clean up my file and have made some positive headway thanks to your advice.
I have contacted the ombudsman regarding some debts which the lender would not resolve and am awaiting a reply.
However I have two further issues which I am hoping you can help me with.
1. Oakbrook (Likely Loans): I stopped making full repayments a few months after I took out a loan of £5,000 back in March 2017 and subsequently have been making regular token payments. The problem I have is that they only defaulted me on 20/8/20, which means that I still have until 2026 before it falls off my credit file. I am about to email them to ask them to re set the default date to 2017 and then contact the ombudsman if they fail to do so. Would this be the correct procedure?
2. I had a La Redoute account before 2006 and so no signed credit agreement could be produced by the creditor.This old debt is not mentioned on two of the credit agencies reports, however it is still showing as a default on Clearscore (Equifax). Who do I need to contact about this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was the Likely Loan affordable? if not, make an affordability complaint – if you win, the large amount of interest will be removed AND all negative marks are removed from your credit record. I suggest you try this first before arguing about the default date – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ for a template. Likely Loans are losing a lor of these cases at the Ombudsman.
the Le Redoute debt – who is shown as the creditor on Clearscore? When did you stop making payments to this? when did you originally stop making the normal monthly payments?
LB says
I have won the affordability complaint with likely and they have now removed the interest and so I did not have to go to the ombudsman.
However the debt is till showing but with no negative markers on Credit Karma (Transunion) or Clearscore (Equifax) both stating “active”
However on Experian it states that I am in a “payment arrangement”which I don’t believe should be stated?
I would like to have the default date re set so that it is gone from my file completely.
La Redoute….the creditor is showing as LRUK. I stopped making token monthly payments around 2016 when I contacted the dc (Moorcroft)after requesting a signed cca, to advise that the debt was not legally valid as they were unable to produce a signed cca. Prior to that I had ceased making normal full monthly payments but am unsure of the exact date.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t see why they should enter a default debt as all negative marks were removed. It is accurate to show you still owe the remains of the debt. I suppose you can ask.
The LR debt, a default should have been added after you stopped paying.
LB says
As there is no default date for Likely Loans on any of my credit files, the debt will not fall off until I have finally made the last payment. As this could be some years down the line, this is obviously not good.
Are they required by ICO rules to add a default after I ceased full payments (which would be around June 2017)?
I am about to request that they do this, but if they refuse then can I go to the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The ICO rules say you should have a default, but FOS tells lenders to remove the default if the loan is unaffordable. The ICO rules (technically they are the SCOR rules not the ICO rules) don’t specify what should happen in this case.
This is not harming your credit score.
If you want to try this – and I have no idea if it will work – then wouldn’t it be better to wait until 2023? so if it succeeds you don’t have the default harming your credit score for long before it drops off?
LB says
Thanks Sara, I will give it a go.
LB says
Regarding the other problem I have with Likely Loans.
When I won the affordability complaint, they agreed to take off all negative markers, which they did on Transunion and Equifax which simply state “active”.
However on Experian it states “in a payment arrangement-the lender has agreed to vary payments for a time”
Would this not be classed as a negative marker/flag? If so, do I ask them to remove it and go to the Ombudsman if they refuse?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, it should not say you are in a payment arrangement. But it may still be worth waiting until the 6 years is nearly up and trying then to get this sorted. I don’t think you can go to FOS now about the payment arrangement bit and then go again in a couple of years asking for something completely different.
LB says
In that case I will leave this until near the 6 year mark.
Regarding La Redoute, which was pre 2006 and the dc who was dealing with it ((Moorcroft) could not provide a signed credit agreement.
This debt is now only present on Equifax and not the other two, as it has now disappeared from them.
Do I contact La Redoute to ask them to remove it from Equifax and then go to the Ombudsman if they refuse?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes but you are not asking them to remove the debt (which would be wrong) instead you are asking them to add a default in 2016.
LB says
Would it be better to wait until 2022 with La Redoute and see if this falls off Equifax and if not then to contact them to ask them to add a default in 2016, that way it would come off my Equifax file in 2022?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well it isn’t going to fall off in 2022. But yes, good point.
Joanne says
Hi Sara
I had debt with creation bank in 2013 and entered a dmp with step change they then sold the debt to Lowell in 2016 who defaulted on my account in June 2020
I wrote to creation asking them to default my account in 2014 as was making reduced payments
They have wrote to me today not upholding that complaint as they have said as I was making regular reduced payments through an arrangement with them that the ico rules do not apply
Is this correct or is this something that I can pass to the financial ombudsman? Lowell have never reported any regular payments on my credit file since taking over
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much wewre StepChange paying creation a month? what should the normal monthly payment have been? And how large was the loan?
Have Lowell been paid through StepChange since 2016?
Was the original loan “affordable”? That means when the loan was given was it likely you would be able to repay it and pay all your other debts, bills and living expenses without having to borrow more money? How large was the loan?
Jo says
Hi Sara it was for a credit card
I paid around £9 per month on dmp
Lowel have been paid up until last year I wrote to them asking for the original documentation and stopped paying lowel hence why default added.
Missed payments has always been recorded on my credit file since 2016 from Lowell, creation is no longer on my credit file as well as all other debts that were due when started dmp
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, so was the creation card limit set at too a level? Did they increase it while you had the card?
the reason I am asking is if you can win an affordability complaint, you can have all negative marks removed from your credit record, so this may be worth a try if you think your limit was much too high.
Otherwise you can send the complaint about the default date to the Financial Ombudsman, arguing that you were only making low payments in the DMP, your arrears were much more than 6 months and at the latest they should have added a default date when they sold the debt in 2016.
barbara says
Hi, I have been challenging a default i had two years ago and would like your advise please. I was sent two notice of sums in arrears in July 2019 when my personal loan account was two months in arrears and was then sent a default notice in August 2019. I was in hospital at the time which I have sent evidence of and they then transferred my account to debt recovery agent and registered a default against me. I am not arguing my arrears but trying to confirm the Deafult was registered incorrectly as I have been told an account has to be three months in arrears?? Do I have justification in pursuing this complaint? any advise would be helpful. I did not receive any further correspondence from them after the default notice in August.
Hoping someone can settle this once and for all for me.
Barbara O’Shea says
Hi Sara. No when they sent the letter in July I was one month in arrears for July as June payment had been paid. When the default letter was sent on August 7th I was two month in arrears, the amount of arrears on default letter confirmed this. They then passed the debt to a credit collection agency on 28th August and default was registered. I have been trying to sort this out ever since 2019. Collection Agency have agreed a settlement figure but Nationwide refuse to remove the default.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so the default many have been added too soon. But unles you repaid the arrears when you were sent the Default Notice, you would have been in 3 months arrears soon after, wouldn’t you?
Barbara says
Yes the arrears was 3 months arrears in September but they defaulted the account in August, so have I right to appeal this as I thought you had to be 3 months in arrears before a default notice could be sent? I heard nothing further from them after August only a letter from collection agency on August 28th.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is going to sound odd, but a Default Notice is a procedure under the Consumer Credit Act. It has nothing to do with whether a default is added to your credit record. You can’t challenge a default on your credit record because the DN was sent before 3 months. All they would do is move the devafult make a month or two – which you don’t want as it will then be on your credit record for another month or two more.
Barbara says
But I have read this information:
garding the Default:
You shouldn’t receive a default notice for missing just one or two payments. Your creditor is only able to issue a default notice when your account is between three and six months in arrears
So I am questioning the validity of them sending a DN?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Where did you read that?
The DN has NOTHING to do with the default on your credit record. If it is invalid (and it isn’t clear to me that it is) I am not clear how this will help you.
Barbara says
I read that on the Stepchange website. I am very confused now as if the default on my file has nothing to do with the dn what is for? The default on my file is because I did not pay the two months arrears within 14 days
I also says this which is why I am questioning it?
A default notice can also be removed if you aren’t at least three to six months in arrears. If you receive a default notice after only missing one or two payments, you can ask for this to be removed
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Default notice is a formal procedure under the Consumer Credit Act – you can not be taken to court for a CCj if they have not served a default notice.
Stepchange say (https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/debt-collection/default-notices-and-missed-payments.aspx) “A default notice is normally sent when you’ve missed or paid less than the full amount for three to six months.” which I think is a fair summary. It does not have to be sent within that period.
It has nothing to do with whether a default is recorded on your credit record – credit reporting rules are covered by SCOR: https://scoronline.co.uk/. Many defaults are recorded on credit records when no DN has been issued.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah I have googled and found that. It isn’t Stepchange, it is from Creditfix, who are an IVA firm, not debt advisers. I think they are just a bit confused between Default Notices and defaults on your credit record.
I take a very practical view. You are now more than 3 months in arrears. You can argue the default was added a month or two early. But you haven’t given a reason why a default should not be recorded on your credit record now. And it is better to have an earlier default date rather a than a leter one as it will drop off sooner.
Barbara says
Thanks for your help Sara. I am going send all evidence I have to Financial Ombudsman and ask what they think
Barbara says
Yes I have been trying to get this resolved for months but they are are not very nice to deal with and constantly say it’s correct, even though it took them months to finally admit I was two months in arrears and not three and are now saying they defaulted the account in September when I have evidence from them and collection agency that they defaulted it in august when I was two months in arrears.
Lisa Bowra says
Hi
I hope you can help me as I’m having issues with Virgin media.
After being with them loyally for 3 years we sold our house and they told us they didn’t provide our new area. On 14/09/20 I contacted them on this to tell them our moving date was 27/09/20 and they asked me to pay the last month bill of £25. I paid this immediately. They told me I would have to pay a disconnection fee as I was still in contract and they told me they would get this out in a final bill. I redirected all mail to new address. In October 2020 I still hadn’t received a bill so I called them and was told they was posting one out. It never came. I assumed from this there as nothing to pay. After all I was paid up to date and had been with 3 years. On 12/12/20 I checked my ClearScore report only to see an outstanding amount of £205 owed to virgin so I called them immediately to ask why I hadn’t received a letter or email, as previously in November 2018 I missed a payment and was sent 4 emails within a 2 week timeframe as a reminder of payment!!! They didn’t post or email me a final bill so I had no idea I even owed £205, I had no idea why it was £205 or a breakdown of that charge. I immediately paid in full that same day on 12/12/20. I thought that was the end of it. In july 2021 I apply for a mortgage. I am told just to check my report in advance. I do this and see that I now have a default on my account dated 12/11/20
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It would have been much better to check that there was no final bill. But I think you should complain you were not informed of the debt and that the calls in September and October show you would have paid it if you had received it, so a default is unfair.
At the same time as complaining, send them a Subject Access request asking for copies of all your personal information including recordings of all phone between 1 September 2020 and the current date.
debtfreenow says
I entered into a DMP in December 2018. I stopped paying around then and set up mu DMP with StepChange. Since then I have been able to pay off and make partial payments to clear all of my debts.
The dates of my defaults are mostly the same (below), 5 of the 7 are within 6 months. But two of them (both HSBC) have been added in June 2020, approx. 18 months after I started the DMP.
Can I appeal to HSBC to have them change the date of the default or should I just leave it?
1. 3/12/2018
2. 3/12/2018
3. 22/03/2019
4. 29/3/2019
5. 30/04/2019
6. 6/06/2020
7. 20/06/2020
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should ask them to backdate the default a year. Give details of all the other creditors and when they added defaults.
Bill says
Hi,
Ihave reached a settlement figure with ARC (original debt QuickQuid). The account is from 2016 but when I check on credit karma there is no default date it just says “Arrangement to Pay”.
It’s strange because I have some other accounts that I can clearly see a default date.
My question is once I partially settle this account next month will that be the end of it?
Payday loans seem to be the worst as I have also reached a settlement figure with Lantern for two previous accounts (lending stream & wage day advance) but they dont even appear on my credit file?? Very odd
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you made any payments to this one since 2016? Was it in an arrangement, is so when did this start?
Bill says
Hi
yes I have through a DMP with payplan starting 2016
Same with all my other debts but the others have a default date
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, was there a period when you paid nothing towards this before your DMP started?
Bill says
Having had a look at the statement they sent me along with the CCA it appears I took out the debt 21/06/16 and began paying 10/8/16 in varying small amounts.
10/01/17 looks like the official payplan DMP set up. I’ve paid £1 every month till a couple of weeks ago when I got in touch to offer a partial settlement.
On the description it does have interest payment received under every £1 I paid monthly, not sure if that is important.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so if you were only making a token £1 a month payment, the account would be 3-6 months in arrears after about 3-6 months… so they should have added a dfault date back then. Read the articole above and complain and ask QuickQuid for a default to added.
if you do not do this, this account will be on your credit record for 6 years after the date you settle it,
Bill says
Ok thanks I’ll get in touch with Quickquid
Shall I do the same for the two Lantern debts I’m settling too?
They were originally with Wage Day Advance & Lending stream.
Absolutely no idea why they haven’t appeared on my credit file
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How old are the WDA and Lending Stream debts? Have you looked at your credit records with all three credit reference agencies, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/
If you borrowed more than a couple of times from Lending Stream or the loans were large, have you looked at making an affordability complaint? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. If you win that you may get the balance reduced or even cleared with some cash back – and the negative marks are removed from your credit record, including with the debt collector.
Also look at affordability complaints against any payday lenders you used that are still going (QQ and Wageday Advance aren’t) even if you have repaid the debts.
Bill says
Thanks Sara
Regarding lending stream & WDA I’ve already tried the avenues you’ve suggested.
I called Quick Quid today and the agent I spoke to said a default date had been added August 2016 but my credit file (checked all 3) is showing the quid quid loan as “arrangement to pay” since 2017.
I’m annoyed about this as once I partially close the account in mid October I believe it will show on my credit file for 6 years !!
I’m thinking of calling casheuro net tomorrow as they are quick quids owners and put in a complaint.
Any ideas?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
QuickQuid is just a brand name of Casheuronet – they are the same firm and are in administration. Phone them again and see if you can get them to send you an email saying when a default was added – you want this in writing.
Bill says
Ive had an email today from quickquid advising they will get in touch with Experian and transunion to add a default date going back to 23/12/17
My final payment (partial settlement figure) to Lantern who are now in charge of this debt is October 17th.
Thankyou for your help Sara as if I didn’t do this it would be showing for 6 years after next month!
The last thing I’ve sorted is a lowell debt that I’m also setting in Oct.
Apparently Hitachi (og lender) didn’t add a default date according to lowel and they haven’t been reporting to credit agencies on this debt since 2015, so once I’ve settled the account it will just be closed :)
james says
Hi what avenues are open to me regarding getting the date a default changed to another date?
My circumstances are,
*The account defaulted (3 plus months missed payments) on an authorized current account overdraft in early 2013.
*Majority of debt owed consisted of charges relating to the famous damaging ‘Reserve Fee’ facility. (Please note the reserve fee facility was not requested and Barclays maintains I opted into the same because I didn’t refuse the lending facility when non-existent offered the same to me)
*Outstanding debt transferred to apparent in-house [Barclays] debt collection agency in late 2013.
*No default issued or muted prior to transfer of the debt for collection.
* Account termination letter issued 2013.
*Default notice issued and Default reported to CRA in late 2018.
*Date paid in total 2020.
I firmly believe the default should of been issued and reported to the CRA’s in 2013 after the account the 3 -6 months of missed payments, involvement of debt collection agency and/or when the account service was terminated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
at what point did they stop adding interest and charges?
Can you explain more about this “Reserve Fee” and how it worked in your case and between which dates.
james says
Reserve Fee – The above bank charge £22 each time the facility was inadvertently used because of the level of my debts which consisted of a full authorized overdraft balance. How is this opt-in practice permitted and what regulations allow the bank to change TC’s when no consent was given for the changes or facilities additions?
Interest was not stopped on the debt until I enter into a debt management plan in 2018. The Reserve was activated on my account and Barclays state that I didn’t opt out of the additional non-request facility, I by default accepted the facility and all the TC’s of the same.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
were you still using the account after 2013?
(NB this sounds like a good case for making a complaint, I am just trying to establish the detailswhen a default should be added to an overdraft account that is being used. But you may have plenty of other reasons to complain and some of them may result in all negative marks being removed from your credit record.)
james says
Hi Sara
Sorry the late response, I stopped using the account as I was completely fed-up with Barclays and I was fighting a loosing battle with them and the account was terminated in 2013. However, What I cannot understand is the account was terminated, but the bank continued to send the odd account related documents and informed the credit reference agencies in 2018 during the time/process of me addressing the debt via a debt management company (PayPlan). Between 2013 – 2018 the bank refused to uphold my formal written complaint that the reserve fee charges where wrong and should be refunded. I cannot not understand why it took the bank 5 years to report a default and is a termination notice the same a default? If its the latter does that mean the bank has affectively defaulted me twice?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t think of any reason why they did not default the account in 2013 when they closed it. I suggest you ask them to backdate the default to then. and also refund all the interest and charges added after your DMP started.
james says
Hi Sara
Thank you Sara for response.
I would agree with you but at the minute I’m unsure of the best way to frame my argument and if there is any, what regulations etc I can use to support my argument that the bank has acted incorrectly and impacting severely on my credit rating etc.
Termination Letter, default & Debt collections >>>>>
Are you or anyone on this forum able to clarify is a termination letter quoting legislation [Consumer Credit act] is a defacto default or the same as a default?
I must point out the bank did not close the account after issuing the termination notice, in fact they pasted the debt unto a debt collection agency that appears to be connected to Barclays called Chelmer Collections based in Manchester!? I have recently learnt and hopefully understand correctly that before a debt is past to a debt collector the debt must be defaulted…..I’m I understanding the above correctly?
If the above debt collector is heavily connected and/or managed by Barclays, does that mean Barclays can by-pass the defaulting of debtors as per the legislation because of it’s connection with Barclays??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are making this too difficult – you don’t need to quote the regulations. I suggest you just write and complain that they did not treat you fairly when they failed to add a default to your credit record when they terminated your account. And add that they should have frozen interest and charges when the overdraft was put into your DMP so you would like a refund of those.
Edith says
Hi
I had a default from Vanquis bank on 2013 and in 2019 it was removed from my records and then Vanquis sold it to another company .
My problem is that Vanquis are lying that they gave me a Default and now I have a second default with the same loan .
Now I never received a default letter from Vanquis I was only told on the phone that I would get a default .
Now that the default is gone how do I prove I had a default ???
I’m the same year 2012 to 2014 I got 3 other defaults because of my financial difficulties I have all their letters to show I was defaulted by all of them except a letter from Vanquis .
Can you please advice me I need urgent help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you ever have a credit report showing this default?
Mark says
Hi,
I have a strange situation.
I had a credit card with Vanquis and in 2014 had to move to a token payment of £1 per month which I did every month all the way up to and including November 2019. At that point I stopped making payments.
At no point did Vanquis issue a default notice.
Theu have now passed the debt to Arrow Global who issed a default notice dated March 2021.
Can they do that when I actually defaulted in 2014?
Thanks
Marl
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can we go back to why you got into difficulty? Had you lost your job or something? Or had Vanquis increased your credit limit a lot too high?
Also what is the rest of your current situation like. Is this your only problem debt? Do you have arrears on any bills?
Mark says
Hi Sara,
I was self employed and my business closed down. Vanquis increased my limit and I already have an affordability complaint in with them about this (submitted 7 weeks ago).
I made the token payment for many years but stopped in Novmeber 2019.
In my opinion the actual default took place way back in 2014, but no payments have been made for nearly 2 years now.
My situation has now improved and I want to query the actual default date and have it corrected on my credit file
I have another affordability complaint in with Provident and also have a default from a sunny loan which was with SLL but has just been sold to Merligen / Moriaty
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well if you win the affordability complaint, the default and payment arrangement markers will have to be removed…
You certainly can complain the default date is wrong but there seems little point until the affordability complaint is resolved.
Lenny says
I had a loan with Lending Stream in 2015. I ended up defaulting on the loan and no further payments were made. They then sold the loan to TM Legal who tried to take out a CCJ against me in 2019 but I chose to defend the claim and it was struck out when they never turned up to court. However I have noticed that Lending Stream never registered a default on my credit file and instead registered missed payments from 2015 to 2017 when the account was closed and sold. My question is, shouldn’t they have registered a default in 2015? If they had, it would be off my credit file by now, but instead it will show until Nov 2023. Is there anything I can do about this? I have been debt free now since 2019 and the late payments are literally the only bad thing on my credit file now and I want them off.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, ask LS to add a default date 6 months after you missed a payment.
Henry says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for your great website.
I finished a DMP this year, one of my last creditors were HSBC. I had an overdraft which was added to DMP at the beginning of 2019. A default was never added and it was recorded monthly as ‘missed payment’ on credit record until May 2021. I settled via ‘short settlement’ (i.e full and final settlement) in April 2021 and it took a couple of months for HSBC to update their records with account finally closed in June 4th 2021. I have just noticed they added a default for June 3rd 2021, the day before account was closed and 2 months after I made the short settlement payment. Notwithstanding the issues with timelines on defaults for overdrafts being more murky, I assume HSBC should not have done this? Please could you recommend best course of action?
Regards,
Henry
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell me a bit about the overdraft. Had the limit been increased when you were already in financial difficulty? Was there a long period when you were in your overdraft continuously?
Henry says
The limit was £5000 and from 2015-2019 I was mostly around the limit, paying monthly interest. I thought I had a good case against them for irresponsible lending, as I also had 2 loans around this period and a rather obvious gambling addiction. I took to FOS and had no luck. Regarding the default, are they allowed to register after I’ve agreed a settlement figure and made payment?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you ask for the Overdraft case to be looked at by an Ombudsman? Was this recently?
I think you can say what they have done is unfair and ask for it to be backdated to 2019 when your DMP started.
Henry says
It went to Ombudsman in 2020 and they looked at loans alongside overdraft in same response. I had a separate complaint at FOS with Nationwide and they said overdraft charges would be looked at by specialist team, which I recently had an update saying initial decision in my favour- HSBC were far worse than nationwide though so I’m not sure if I can ask for them to look at overdraft again separately. To be honest I had an awful experience with FOS, incompetence at almost every step of the process, then independent assessor ignored my emails when I complained!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
sorry to hear that :(
From what I can see, there are now quite a lot of sensible decisions about overdrafts going through this year. That doesn’t help you. I don’t think they will; reopen an old case.
william says
I have default on my credit file in August 2016 but the payments were marked up to date in June.
Can I write to the lender & expect them to remove this ?
The lender alleged default was due to a reposession but my credir file does not note it ias a repossession – if I contact the lender can they then up date the defauilt by marking it as a respossession ? If the default was recordded before three months does the lnder have to remove it but could they amend it to show it was a repossesion ?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This was a mortgage or a secured loan? And the house has been repossessed?
Can you say what happened then and since – have you now repaid the debt?
william says
Thank you Sara for such a quick response. The default is partly settled as of February 2020 which he lender is trting to update at present on my file but the CRA portal has a techncal fault preventing this hapening that the CRA’s can give no date for it being fixed !
The property was not marked on my credit files as respossessed – the property was sold as it was nearing its end of teem loan & it had become structurally unsound & needed expensive repair work so it was decided to sell it & the lender agreed to sell below the mortgage value.
As far as I know it was not repossessed & is definitely not marked as such on my CRA files – but I had a serious car crash shortly afer this & sustained a brain injury so my memory of this period of time is impaired.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the CRA portal has a technical fault preventing this happening that the CRA’s can give no date for it being fixed
Is this what the CRA says or what the lender says? So the loan is showing as still with a balance? Who is the lender?
This debt will disappear from your credit record in August 2022 if there is a default date of August 2016 on the credit record.
william says
Thank you Birmingham Midshires is the lender & they have advised me the CRA portal is to blame & BM can do nothing further. Experian have told me both that BM don’t respond, but another adviser at Experian told me Experian had a technical issue but thought it had been resolved.
In the meanwhile I cant progress with new my credit with other lenders. The new lender has said they can proceed once BK update this default.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send BM a formal complaint – say if it is not possible to mark the debt as partially satisfied, then they should mark it as fully satisfied as this has been going on too long. Say you will be sending your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman and asking for compensation as this is preventing you from obtaining credit.
Phil says
Hi
I’m seeking legal, regulatory standing for the triggers for when a default should be applied by a credit card provider? And if any failure to adhere to such triggers there’d be a case for requesting retrospective default application to a credit file?
I have a credit card debt of £3.4k, since November 2013 I’ve struggled (due to worsening neurological health conditions) to pay the required minimum monthly amount. Between Dec 2013 and July 2016, I was put on various payment plans. In Aug 2016 my account was passed to the credit provider’s financial difficulties department, the agreement was for me to pay £1 per month.
In November 2019 the debt was sold on, as a result, the agreement was to keep paying £1 per month.
In a recent review, a full and final option was mentioned, but could affect my credit file as the account was not in default?? I thought (assumed) the account had long defaulted like my other debts.
Have been advised the debt was bought as non-defaulted and up to date. With reduced failed payment plans in place since Dec 2013 and £1 token payments made since Aug 2016 – how is the account up to date and not in default?
My real concern is the lack of default! And when, how and why it could be applied in the future i.e. if they get fed up with me paying a £1, or the debt is sold on etc.
Would I have grounds for a retrospective default application?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above explains that a default should be added when the account is 3-6 months in arrears.
Who is the lender?
Did they freeze interest and charges? Were they aware of your health conditions?
Also is their your only problem debt?
Phil says
The article above explains that a default should be added when the account is 3-6 months in arrears –
This was my understanding which is why I was surprised the account was not in default and wondered if something had changed or I was misunderstanding something such as what constitutes arrears? i.e.
– Failure to pay anything at all?
– Failure to pay the required amount in line with the original agreement?
Who is the lender?
Originally it was Vanquis who sold it on in 2019
Did they freeze interest and charges?
Yes, frozen since August 2016 and remains frozen via the debts new owner
Were they aware of your health conditions?
Initially, the card provider was aware I had problems having tests etc, confirmed diagnosis came early part of 2018.
The company that bought the debt was made aware of my diagnosis as part of the transfer.
Also, is their your only problem debt?
No, I have slight arrears on some priority bills such as Energy and Council Tax.
High arrears on Mortgage (court order in place since 2014)
In addition to the debt, I’m talking about there’s another credit card debt for £11k. (defaulted)
Also, owe some family members.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Bad credit lenders such as Vanquis often ignore the rules. Send them a complaint and ask for a default to be added in 2016 – point out they were aware of your serious health problems and say they did not treat you fairly by not adding a default in 2016.
Are you making payments to the other credit card? Has that also been sold to a debt collector?
Are you keeping up with what I assume is a suspended possession order on the mortgage?
Is it likely that your health will not improve?
(Sorry for all the questions – looking for some other options that may help you.)
Phil says
Bad credit lenders such as Vanquis often ignore the rules. Send them a complaint and ask for a default to be added in 2016.
Would there be any adverse ramifications if they declined or ignored such a complaint, or tried to pass it off to the new owner of the debt to deal with?
Are you making payments to the other credit card? Has that also been sold to a debt collector?
Haven’t made a payment for 5 years 8 months, the reality is it’s been longer than that. But in 2016 I requested a CCA providing the mandatory £1 postal order. They never sent the CCA but placed the £1 payment against the credit card debt, therefore, showing it as payment. At the time I wrote to them telling them of misappropriating the £1 postal order they ignored me and I’ve never heard from them since. The debt ended up back with the card provider in 2016 after touring several DMC’s prior.
Are you keeping up with what I assume is a suspended possession order on the mortgage?
Yes, it’s my true focus and why I don’t want any future defaults to appear on my file, to try and stand a chance of getting a new mortgage as and when required.
Is it likely that your health will not improve?
Unfortunately without any wonders of science, breakthroughs in treatment, it’s never likely to improve at any time, it’s more a question of how, if I can delay getting worse.
Thanks for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Would there be any adverse ramifications if they declined or ignored such a complaint, or tried to pass it off to the new owner of the debt to deal with?
You send the complaint to the Finacial Ombudsman if they reject it. They can’t say it is the job of the debt purchaser as you are asking them to do something before the debt was sold.
The chance of you refinancing with a suspended possession order in place are very, very low. I doubt a default on your credit record will make any difference. If you are still making token £1 payments to this debt it will never become statute barred.
I think you should try to get a default added and then ask the current debt collector to write off the debt given your priority debts and your serious long term health problems, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/
You are in the uncomfortable position of not being entirely sure what is happening with that other credit card debt. But if it pops up again, ask for the CCA, claim it is statute barred and also ask for a write off…
I am also concerned about your overall financial position. Small priority debt problems may get worse this winter with rising prices. I think you should talk to your local Citizens Advice yout your options – there may be some local financial help they can help you access.
william says
Thank you Sara – the FOS could take over a year to investigate any complaint. Yesterday I filed a report with the Information Commission for broadcasting in inaccurate information but they advise it takes up to 3 months just to allocate the case handler. In the meanwhile my business will collapse & I could lose my home if I can’t re finance my borrowings.
My concern is can BM revise it’s default by adding information to claim it is a respossession – or once a default has been registered are updates as to the cicrumstance permitted 5 years later ?
Partial settlement sounds an odd status – they’ve written to say they are not chasing the debt, so could they just say ‘written off’ & I can then add my car accident & brain injury to the notices of correction on the CRA files. The lender became aware of my car accident in February 2020 when I wrote tothem which is why they ceased chasing the debt. But they did not amend the credit file or default then & now they think they should amend but the technical issue is preventing this.
Thank you for your help it is muvh appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FOS may take a year but it can be a lot quicker.
As this isn’t a repossession, I don’t know why you are worried about this?
Credit records should be accurate and a lender should correct them. I am sorry but you do not seem entirely sure about whether it was repossessed or not.
You asked If the default was recorded before three months does the lender have to remove it – no they would have to correct the date. And you do NOT want the default being moved later or it will take longer to drop off.
I can then add my car accident & brain injury to the notices of correction on the CRA files
why can’t you do this now?
william says
Thank you.
I don’t know whether it was a repossession, as I’m referring to the default details on my file & no reference is noted of a repossession. My car accident has caused some memory loss for that period so I have no recall of the circumtances. If it was a respossession but the lender has not noted it as one, so in asking them about this, they may then decide to update the default it as a resposession which would make m,y default worse than now, if they think this should have been noted.
I have recovered 90% since the accident.
Now Im finding my way ariund my credit file I will post a note.
Thank you for your help.
Reena says
Hello Sara
Firstly, thank you for your continued sound advice. Based on your previous advice, I approached FOS to settle a complaint about a default that I believe should have been applied in 2009 when I held an Aqua Credit Card (owned by NewDay). No default was ever applied and the debt has changed collection agencies a number of times and is now owned by CapQuest and administered by NCO Europe. I raised complaints with NewDay, Capquest and NCO and none of the firms have taken responsibility for applying the default. The FOS investigator’s view is that NewDay should have applied the default but because the debt is now with CapQuest, FoS will approach them to apply the default and backdate it to 2009. FoS has recommended NewDay award me £150 as compensation for the poor handling of my complaint. This was sent to NewDay in June and they have still not replied. It has now gone to an Ombudsman who has issued a final decision agreeing with the investigator. My questions are: Who should be responsible for the default? If it’s acknowledged that NewDay should have applied the default, why can the Ombudsman not instruct them to do so? Can CapQuest refuse to apply the default if instructed to do so? Is the award of compensation fair and reasonable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In this situation it doesn’t really matter what other decisions FOS could have reached, the question is how to get this one enforced. I would give it a month then ask the Ombudsman if you should make a complaint to CapQuest.
Compensation awards are often pretty small.
Oli says
Hello
I’m currently in dispute with Virgin Money over a default date which was added 11 months after I entered a DMP. They have responded with the below:
“I take on board that you feel the default should have been recorded within 3-6 months of starting your DMP, however, this wouldn’t be the case when making payments to the account (from the DMP). Any payment made is allocated to the arrears first and the higher the payments, the longer the account takes to default. I’m sorry if Step Change did not make this clear to you”.
From my research, informing a creditor that you’re entering a DMP to make less than minimal contractual payment and making these payments means that the normal default time limit of 3-6 months should apply. In this case, the payment allocation from the DMP to Virgin Money was over £100 less a month than the last minimum payment made on the account prior to the DMP.
Is Virgin Money correct to say just because there were payments made on the account, even if it was less than the minimum payment, then they couldn’t default the account within the 3-6 months deadline?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was the minimum payment prior to the DMP?
Oli says
Thanks Sara.
My last payment prior to entering the DMP was £173 in Jan 2018, in February I only made a token payment of £10 after telling Virgin Money I was entering a DMP, the DMP payments started in March 2018 with £72 allocated to Virgin Money.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you were paying a reasonable amount in the DMP. If you had missed a paymenr or only paid a token 31, you get a month into arrears every month. But you were only getting c£100 into arrears every month. So technically you don’t get 6 months into arrears into about 9 months. Defaulting you after 11 months doesn’t look like a dreadful decison. It’s up to you if you want to keep fighting this by complaining to the Financial Ombudsman.
Oli says
Ok, so the fact that I told them I was entering a DMP in Feb 2018 after making a token payment, does not mean that they should have defaulted up to 6 months from that?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There are no rules that say an account should be defaulted within 6 months of starting a DMP. The SCOR guidelines are that an account should be defaulted when it is 3-6 months in arrears.
Robert Weston says
Hello,
I took out a loan from the start up loans company in Nov-2013 for £3600. I stopped paying in Jan-2015 with £2400 outstanding. I have just discovered that this is on my Experian credit report (but no others) with a default date of Oct-2016. I thought this was statute barred, but I do not know when the default became active. 22months after the last payment seems excessive. I cannot remember when I got the first letter, but I have found an email from BFS collections team on behalf of the Enterprise fund in Aug-2016. The CCA was through the East London small business centre on behalf of the start up loans company. Should I challenge BFS on the default date or send a letter that I believe the debt to be statute barred first?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk to Business Debtine on 0800 197 6026 or use their webchat here https://www.businessdebtline.org/contact-us/
Robert Weston says
Hi Sara,
Sorry, I should have clarified that this is a personal debt, it was just loaned for the purpose of starting a business.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I still think it would be useful to talk to Business Debtline.