The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) gives you the right to be sent a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of your account for most loans, credit cards, catalogues, store cards and Hire Purchase agreements.
CCA agreements are important! If a creditor can’t find it then:
- you can’t get a CCJ for the debt; and
- you may decide to stop paying the debt.
But the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to:
- debts where there already is a CCJ;
- overdrafts,
- many household bills or tax debts;
- pre 2008 loans for more than £25,000;
- mortgages.
Sometimes asking for a CCA agreement is a good idea, but not always.
It shouldn’t normally be your first thought if you are having trouble paying a debt to the lender.
Asking for the CCA normally only works if your debt has been sold to a debt purchaser – unless the debt is very old.
Contents
How to ask for your CCA agreement
There is a template letter to ask for your credit agreement in this National Debtline factsheet. That factsheet also has a lot of information about CCA agreements and if you have any problems with one, talk to National Debtline.
This is not the same as templates asking for a copy of your personal information or making a Subject Access Request. If you want to find out if the debt is enforceable, use the specific CCA agreement wording.
Some points to be careful about:
- ask the current creditor for the CCA agreement, not the original creditor;
- you have to send a cheque or a postal order for £1;
- send the letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it and the postage receipt.
Also read the rest of this article first! You need to know what you will do if the lender sends you the agreement and what if the lender doesn’t.
What happens if they don’t send the CCA agreement?
If you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
If the creditor can’t easily find the CCA agreement they may send you an acknowledgement of your request. Something like the following is typical:
we acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information but as we have to request the details from the original lender we anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request.
A 40 day period is often mentioned but doesn’t have any legal standing.
It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.
I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them.
“Legal but not enforceable”
The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.
The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.
When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment. Here is what I suggested to a reader who was getting letters that left off this important fact: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”
Here are some more implications of the debt being legal but not enforceable:
- if you claim a PPI refund, this may be set off against the balance you still owe.
- the debt can still be sold to another debt collector. Make sure you keep all the CCA agreement letters or emails so you can just tell the new creditor you asked for the CCA agreement on dd/mm/yy and you won’t be paying anything to the debt until it is produced.
- you may be able to leave the debt out of an application for a Debt Relief Order so it won’t count towards the maximum debt limit. Talk to your DRO adviser about this.
- See below for the effect on your credit record.
“So I can just stop paying?”
If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.
But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months.
If the debt is in a DMP you will have to tell the DMP firm to stop paying it. Dent them the letter from the creditor saying they can’t locate the agreement.
You may find the idea of not paying scary. If you do, talk to National Debtline about this debt and the rest of your financial situation. It does help, being able to talk to a friendly expert!
I would allow the debt collector two or three months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found it in the first few months the chances of it turning up later are very low.
“The creditor hasn’t said it is unenforceable”
Occasionally a creditor will tell you they cant produce it but you are still legally liable for the debt which is true, but irrelevant – if they cannot produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court.
Sometimes the creditor goes into a lot of detail about how you have been paying so the debt isn’t statute barred. Also true but again irrelevant. You weren’t suggesting the debt was statute barred.
In this sort of situation, tell the creditor that you are not disputing whether you are liable for the debt or whether it is statute barred, but you would like the creditor to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have produced the CCA.
If the creditor persists with this, make a complaint and then send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Here is the story of a case involving an old HSBC debt, where HSBC had to pay compensation for not admitting the debt was unenforceable.
“What about my credit record?”
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? Check all three credit reference agencies to make sure.
If it isn’t on there, then it will never reappear, whether you pay it in full, in part or just stop paying.
A debt marked as defaulted will drop off 6 years after the default date:
- it will not drop off sooner because the CCA cannot be found;
- the balance will not normally be set to zero because the CCA cannot be found.
When the debt does not have a default date, if you stop paying now, a default will be added and it will then drop off in 6 years. Not good news! Read What should the default date be? and ask the original creditor to add a default date back years ago.
A default will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. And you shouldn’t want that to happen – it would mean the record would stay on your file for even if you stop paying.
The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it.
“Should I offer a low settlement amount?”
Some people decide to offer a low settlement amount. I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t need to do this! Not paying them anything is a perfectly good response in most cases! It is VERY VERY rare for a debt to turn up later.
A lot of creditors simply reject the low offer, even though you think it is sensible. They know that if they refuse you may decide to give them more. You cannot make a debt collector accept this low offer or complain they are being unfair if they don’t.
If you really want to make a settlement offer, stop paying them for a few months and then make the offer. That shows they can choose between your low offer and nothing.
The only time when you should try to get the debt settled is if it will still be showing on your credit record in a year or two when you want to apply for a mortgage. Then getting the debt marked as satisfied will help your mortgage chance a lot. But if the debt is no longer on your credit record or is dropping off soon, there is no need to do this.
What if they do send the CCA agreement?
How can you tell if it is right?
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
- your name and address when the account was opened;
- the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
- the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
- any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
It doesn’t have to have your signature on it. Indeed if you opened the account online you may well have signed it “digitally” and there is no document with your physical signature – this is perfectly legal.
If you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct, you can ask National Debtline about it or you could post about it on the Legal Beagles forum.
This may sound complicated but usually either the creditor admits they can’t find it or what they send you is fine.
What should you do when the CCA agreement is found?
This depends on why you were asking for the CCA agreement.
If the creditor has started a court case (you have been sent a Claim Form) then you may have hoped that the CCA agreement could not be found. But now you have it, that is not a possible defence so you need to think if you have another defence. Talk to National Debtline about your options.
If you were planning on making settlement offers to some debts and were hoping the lack of a CCA agreement could get this one settled very cheaply, that has been ruled out and you need to proceed with a more substantial offer.
If you are fed up with having to pay this old debt for many more years, look at your alternatives. If you just stop paying, you may get taken to court – especially as the creditor now has the CCA agreement ready to hand! If you have more luck with some other debts turning out to be unenforceable, can you now pay more to this one? Or is it time to look at insolvency or other options?
When should you ask for the CCA agreement – and when shouldn’t you?
A lot depends on your exact debts, who the original creditor was, who the debt collector is, and what your other options are for tackling them. So there isn’t a simple checklist here.
How old is the account and has it been sold?
The older an account is, the less likely it is that a CCA agreement will be found. It’s the age of the account that matters, not how old the debt problem is. You may have only defaulted on a catalogue account a couple of years old, but if it was opened in 2010 that’s well worth a try!
For a debt that is still with the original creditor, I wouldn’t bother asking for the CCA agreement unless the debt was VERY old or you are getting letters from solicitors about court action.
If a debt has been sold once it is less likely the current creditor can produce the CCA agreement. And this gets harder the more times the debt is sold on.
Court action and CCJs
If the creditor is seriously threatening court action, always ask for the CCA agreement. It is worth a try!
But when you already have a CCJ for a debt, it is too late to ask for the CCA agreement as the creditor doesn’t have to send it. If you have just found out about the CCJ you need to look at your options for “setting it aside“, not send a request for the CCA agreement.
Contacts about a very old debt you have heard nothing about for years?
If you haven’t been paying a debt for years and you aren’t being hassled by a creditor, you need a good reason to ask for the CCA agreement. It may be better to wait and see if you are contacted and then ask for the CCA.
But when you are contacted about a very old debt, asking for the CCA agreement is a very good idea. you should think first if the debt is statute barred, Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template you can send the creditor saying the debt is statute barred. This is simpler than asking for the CCA agreement.
But if the creditor comes back with a reason why it isn’t statute barred, then your next step should be to ask for the CCA agreement.
Hoping to settle debts with a windfall
If you have a windfall – an inheritance say – and you have a lot of debt in a DMP for several years so most of it is with debt collectors, asking for CCA agreements before you make offers is sensible. You don’t need to pay them anything if they cant produce the CCA.
Thinking about bankruptcy, a DRO or an IVA
Where insolvency (DRO, IVA or bankruptcy) looks necessary, it can be a waste of time asking for CCA agreements, unless not paying those debts would make the rest manageable.
Contacted about a debt which not yours
If a debt collector says you owe money but you don’t recognise the debt, you should send them a Prove It! letter saying you dispute the debt. Here the CCA is only part of the picture. You may get sent a copy of the CCA in answer to this – if the name and address on the agreement are yours and you did live at that property at that point, it is good evidence.
But keep focussed on the fact that what matters is proving who the borrower is.
Here is a case “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment” where a debt collector admitted the debt was unenforceable as the CCA couldn’t be found but wrongly still asked for payment.
Summary
In summary, asking for the CCA agreement is an uncertain process that can take months. If you have a lot of debts, make sure you are looking at the bigger picture, as well as thinking about the individual debts.
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
When to ask for a debt write off
Nick says
Hi,
I have requested a CCA from Link Financial the default was recorded January 2020 and no payments have been made since that date. The CCA request was sent last week and I have noticed they have deposited the cheque and taken this off the outstanding balance I did make it clear in the letter the enclosed cheque was for the CCA request and not for any payment of any balance.
Are Link Financial allowed to do this as I have not agreed to make the £1 payment off the balance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. But it doesn’t make much difference as asking for the CCA acknowledges the debt for statute barring purposes anyway.
Nick says
Yes I agree but was not looking at statute of baring purposes my concern is more them taking it as a payment for the balance even though my letter explicitly says the cheque is not authorised for payment of any outstanding balance. Do I just wait for the CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Many debt collectors don’t want to be bothered taking the £1 for the CCA and they return it to you or take it off the balance. Ask them in a few more weeks if they haven’t replied about the CCA.
Dan says
Does it automatically acknowledge the debt? I had a supposed credit card debt some years ago and wasn’t sure if it was an amount I actually owed. I wrote to the bank specifically stating that I did not recognise or acknowledge the debt, but if they believed they had evidence of it, please send the CCA to me to prove this. I also enclosed the pound and stated that I understood this was a requirement when requesting a CCA. They weren’t able to produce a CCA ‘at this point’ although they stated that they might be able to in the future. That was 2 years ago and I’ve heard nothing from them since. Does my request, despite my stating that I did not recognise the debt, still acknowledge said debt for legal purposes?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your situation seems somewhat different if you were unsure whether this was your debt or not.
It may depend on what you wrote – you can ask National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this. I am not a lawyer and this isn’t something that I would be prepared to give an opinion on.
Daniel says
Hi Sarah,
I’ve requested a CCA from a debt collector (debt purchaser) Lowell. They’ve sent me an old account statement, but admitted they cannot provide a CCA.
I’ve replied obviously that until they do, the advice I received is that the debt isn’t enforceable.
Theyve come back saying that the statement is enough and the debt is enforceable and they will not response to my request for the CCA. Also offering me a 70% discount on the debt, but will continue to contact me until I set up a plan, and will start litigation if required.
The advice I received from National debt helpline was if they do not respond to my request within 12 days it wouldn’t be enforceable until the provide the CCA… but they also told me they cannot tell me its enforceable if it isn’t.
So I’m not sure how to proceed. They’ve admitted the won’t be able to get a CCA but are saying it’s enforceable with just an account statement.
Can I report them to the FCA? Any suggestion on how to proceed would be amazing.
This is my largest debt left. It’s already of my credit score because its over 6 years. I’ve paid money of it already, and only asked for the CCA because they treated me badly with another debt sending letters to the wrong address and going for a CCJ before the deadline had ended. I managed to get this returned to them on appeal because they didn’t follow process.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debt was this?
Daniel Field says
It’s a catalogue debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have they put in writing that it is enforceable?
Daniel says
“As per our pervious emails regarding your Littlewood account, we have provided sufficient evidence for the balance to be valid and owing and therefore will not be responding to any further correspondence regarding this matter.”
This was the latest response. They’re saying that the account statement is proof I’m “liable”.
I requested the CCA in writing and included the £1 payment. they responded saying i should request a DSAR from the original lender.
They have so far refused to say the debt is unenforceable.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am assuming that you are correct and that Lowell have purchased this debt, they are not collecting on behalf of Littlewoods.
In this case, go back to them with a complaint – email is fine. Put COMPLAINT in the title.
Say that CONC 13.1.6 says about requests made under section 77 and 78 of the CCA “(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.”
Ask Lowell to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable or prove a reason why it is not.
Daniel says
Hi, I just wanted to update you on complaint….
They’ve responded in full rejecting my complaint. Saying they’ve acted in the correct way etc. The agent was correct to ignore me and say they would not longer respond to my enquires on if it was enforceable.
However… despite rejecting my complaint and providing no answers in regards to if its “enforceable” or not…
They’ve closed my account as a gesture of goodwill… £2355 of debt…. just closed.
Is this too good to be true?
Should I do anything as a follow up?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you have won this battle!
You need to keep that email. Don’t delete it. Try to get it printed out. Just in case this old debt ever reappears. I don’t thinl it will, but better safe than sorry.
Paul says
Hi Sara
I read this website maybe a year ago and though the advice was great, but I never really followed up with any conviction. I did ask my DMP to ask all creditors if they had the original CCA and most replied to say they did not. The biggest debt I have is with Cabot for an old Car HP Loan from GMAC. The loan is from probably 2005, I got into debt with repayments and handed the car back to the finance company and buried my head in the sand as I could no longer afford the repayments in around 2006/2007. The loan has long since defaulted and dropped off my credit file. Since around 2008, the debt has been in a DMP and I have paid without fail since. As they indicated to the DMP that they did not have the original CCA, would you advise writing to them formally requesting the CCA and whether or not they deem the debt enforceable. My only concern is I really don’t want to put my finances or future credit at any risk. At the current rate, my DMP will be paid up in December 2025. I would rather keep paying if there is any risk, but on the other hand, I still owe £4282 on the Cabot debt, and 10,134 in total, so if I can save that money, I would like to do so.
Any advise much appreciated
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What does your DMP firm say? I have never come across a DMP firm asking for this before.
Paul says
Sorry Sara, the DMP firm didn’t ask for anything, I asked them to contact my creditors and request CCA’s from the creditors, which they did on my behalf.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you already have the reply saying they cannot produce the CCA?
Paul says
Yes, just wasn’t sure how official it was
Paul says
Yes, via the DMP firm. I didnt send a formal letter
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And you don’t feel comfortable with the reply via the DMP firm.? Then you will need to resend the CCA requests yourself and this has just wasted a couple of months. This is a VERY old loan and I am not surprised it cannot be produced..
steve says
,I have 5 debts that have all been deemed unenforceable,and apart from the odd letter I haven’t paid anything for a few years.
I have been using the services of a legal team if any of these companies were able to legally make me pay surely they would have by now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Assuming your “legal team” has been competent enough to ask using the correct legal format, see the link to a template in the article above, this is likely to be fine. There remains an incredibly slim chance that one day the old paperwork will be found – but after so long no one is looking for it.
steve says
thank you for the response.can you explain also why all of the companies out there that offer help with debt issues never mention this option? is it a legal loophole or grey area they choose not to get involved with.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It isn’t a legal loophole or a grey area.
It’s a routine part of debt advice for Citizens Advice and most face to face advisers. Same with National DebtLine – it is their template letter that I link to in the article above.
Often though it isn’t relevant – unless some has consumer debts that have been sold to a debt collector there is normally no point in mentioning it. And even then if the client has enough other problems (eg arrears on priority bills or very large undefaulted debts) then insolvency may be needed and there is no point in wasting time with asking for the CCA agreement.
John Bell says
Hi Sara, could this work if a tomlin order is in place for this debt and its been payed for a while?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t come across one in this situation. I suggest you ask National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Paul says
Hi Sara
I asked Link for a CCA agreement on 18th April by sending them a letter with a £1 postal order and they have replied on May 11th “We write further to your request for account documentation under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Unfortunately, the original creditor has confirmed that they are currently unable to comply with your request within the 12-day initial timeframe. Although the account is currently unenforceable the outstanding balance remains collectable and it is acceptable for creditors to register and continue the reporting of a default. We will contact you further upon receipt of an update from the original creditor”.
Please could you advise the best way to reply and should I still continue to pay the £1 a month payment that I am making.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is very common. It doesn’t mean they will have difficulty producing the CCA. I suggest you carry on paying for another couple of months and decide then.
Jason P says
Hi Sara, a couple of years ago Idem servicing admitted they couldn’t find a CCA for alleged debt and as such the debt was unenforceable, fast forward a couple of years and Lowell are now chasing for the same debt, can I just send them a copy of the letter from Idem stating its unenforceable or do I need to send the CCA request again? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just forward the previous letter to Lowell.
Jenny says
Hi
I have 3 debts left to sort out – I have been paying a token £2 for some years now (after Total Debt Relief went into liquidation – taking a large sum of money I had been paying them to negotiate full and final settlements with several lenders). I’m thinking about sending a CCA request to NCO Europe, and PRA Group (original creditor was Barclays Bank – it may have been an overdraft?) and LINK which is also Barclaycard – credit card debt which is around £12,000 – On one of the statements from LINK it states Credit Agreement under account number xxxxxxxxxxx Agreement originate by: Barclaycard plc, would that mean they have the CCA so there is no point in asking? It also states the date assigned 30/09/2016 and from memory it has only been sold on once to LINK. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A CCA is not relevant for an overdraft.
Just because they know the Barclaycard account number does NOT mean they have the CCA.
Kevin says
Good Morning Sara
I have just received a letter from Lowell about a old credit card debt, they have bought the debt off HSBC. Two years ago Metropolitan Collection Services Limited contacted me about the same HSBC debt and I asked Metropolitan Collection Services Limited for the CCA which they could not produce the only documents they sent me were old statements and when I said I needed them to produce the CCA I have not heard anything until now and now Lovell are the company that are asking. Should I request the same CCA from Lovell or do I need to contact them as I don’t know how but they have my mobile number as I have received a text from them asking me to contact them. Any help would be much appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would tell Lowell that you had pre I asked Metropolitan Collection Services to produce the CCA agreement and they never did, so you will not be making payments unless Lowell can provide the CCA for this alleged debt. Use the word alleged in there.
Mark says
I’ve received a request from pra group about a barclaycard debt.
I’ve asked for the cca and after quiet a wait I’ve been sent a reconstituted copy of my cca but not a copy of the true agreement.
It has no mention of the amount of credit I was signing for, not dates and just Mr M and my surname on it and my address.
On the letter it says the have enclosed the
Short term cancellation
Historic t&c’s
Varied t&c’s
What do I do now ???
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above says what to do if you aren’t sure you have been given a proper copy.
Diane says
Hello Sara – thank you so much for all the priceless advice you share on this website – it really is appreciated .
I have been in a DMP with PayPlan since 2012,((Various credit cards).
The debts were all defaulted and have since fallen off my credit reports.
Feeling brave last year , I wrote to 4 of the creditors asking for a copy of Section 77/78 CCA Two of the accounts are now managed by Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd, one by LINK Financial Ltd and the final one NCO Europe Ltd. I received response from Moorcroft/LINK stating that they were waiting to hear from the original lender. I then heard nothing further but lost my nerve.
On 1st June this year I wrote again (following the template you advised) but this time mentioning the year during which I hadn’t heard anything. To date I have received the same response from LINK. Given the original letters went out a year ago, (follow up 1/6/22) how long would you suggest I wait before I ask Payplan to stop paying them please ?
I chatted briefly with National Debt line who mentioned the possibility of sending out further reminders . Would you think this appropriate in my case please ?
Many thanks Sara .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
On 1st June this year I wrote again (following the template you advised)
did you use those templates the first time? Were the £1 cheques cashed, returned or ignored?
follow up 1/6/22
do you mean 1/6/23?
Diane says
Hello again Sara – thank you for responding.
I did use the same templates originally .
One postal order was returned – the rest ignored.
And I apologise – I did mean 1/6/23 for the date of the follow up.
Many thanks,
Diane
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well it has really complicated things restarting the process again, rather than just asking why you didn’t have a reply to your first request.
I would ask the other 3, except Link, why they havent responded after a month.
And then tell Payplan to stop paying them all after 3 months.
Diane says
Will do Sara – thank you so much for your help and time .
Warm Regards,
Diane
Joanne says
I have finally received a reply from intrum who bought my debt managers debt. They have confirmed that the cca can’t be found due to age of restricted data. But haven’t mentioned that the debt is now not enforceable. In fact they’ve asked me to call up to ensure my current payment of £150 is still affordable. Can I just stop paying? Should I reply? I had a default with this debt that dropped off my credit file last year so there’s no record of it anymore.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Reply asking them to confirm that the debt is not enforceable.
Steve Ward says
Joanne, if they haven’t provided the requested information within the statutory 12 days, the debt is automatically unenforceable until such time that they can. I’m addition, they are in breach of Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) regulations (13.1.6) by writing to you with a demand for payment whilst not also making it clear that the debt is unenforceable. I’d call them & make a verbal complaint to that effect & they have to respond under FCA regs within a certain timeframe.
Renie says
Hi Sara,
I have had an outstanding debt since approx. 2006 relating to a credit card that remains outstanding. I was on a DMP with StepChange from 2007-2020 when I managed to reduce my outstanding debt by requesting CCAs, getting debts deemed unenforceable, getting defaults backdated etc.
However one remains and it was been extremely difficult to obtain a copy of the CCA due to the debt changing owners and being managed by different companies. I was unsuccessful through FOS in 2021 in getting a default date backdated so I pay a minimal amount of £10 per month directly to the company managing the debt to avoid the debt going into default (I no longer use StepChange). During the time of the complaint with FOS, NCO marked my credit file with missed payments, despite me continually making them aware of the ongoing complaint with FOS.
I received a letter last month informing me that the legal owners of the debt has changed from Capquest Investments to Azzurro Associates but that I should continue to make my payments through Capquest/NCO Europe.
I am wondering whether it is worth writing to the new legal owners requesting a copy of the CCA? I believe it is unlikely that Azzurro will be unable to produce the CCA but I have concerns that stopping payments will result in more missed payments on my credit file and then a default notice.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it is a shame you fought to keep a default from being added. if one had been added back in 2007/8 it would have dropped off your credit record a long while ago. Defaults are your friend with lengthy DMPs…
How is the debt being recorded on your credit record at the moment> How large is the balance?
Do you have other very old debts you are still repaying?
Have you actually asked for a copy of the CCA and what was the response?
Renie says
Apologies, perhaps I wasn’t clear…I was pushing to get the default applied from 2007-8 but the company refused as they stated that when they took on the debt I was on a DMP and therefore keeping up payments so they would only apply the default for any future missed payments.
All other companies applied defaults retrospectively and they are now off my credit file.
This debt is showing as ‘active’ with payments up to date. Debt is £1400 and I’m not paying off any other debts as all off my credit file and ‘unenforceable’.
I did ask the previous owners for the CCA and never got a response and FOS didn’t pursue this request as part of my complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is a shame you did not make a complaint against the original lender to get them to add a default.
Your choices now are:
– to carry on paying £10 a month for more than 10 years
– to make a settlement offer
– to stop paying and have a default added now.
Martin says
Hi Sara, I have just received a letter off Cabot saying ‘you have been selected for legal action by our solicitors’ this is the first I have heard for years. I used Next Gen solicitors a few years back and they said the last payment made to Cabot was 21st November 2017. In January 2020 Cabot tried to start legal action but Next Gen asked for a letter of claim and they did not produce it and it was called off. Do you think they are bluffing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt is this?
Have you previously asked Cabot to produce the CCA agreement?
Martin says
Hi it’s an old Aqua card debt, on my credit report it says Cabot Financial in default, date opened 27th Feb 2014, payment history no data.
When I was with Next Gen solicitors after they stopped legal proceedings in 2020 they said to me “Cabot have not responded to the letter of claim sent in January 2020, they have been chased for 12 months with no reply”.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what did this “letter of claim” say? is this a request for the CCA?
is there a default date against the record on your credit file?
Martin Wildgoose says
I’m not sure, my solicitors said last payment was 21st Nov 2017 and my credit file said cabot updated in 2019 no mention of a CCA agreement. If I was to contact Cabot would this mean an acknowledgement of the debt and therefore stay on my file longer. Next Gen seemed to think it would be removed from my file on 21st Nov of this year as it was 6 years since last payment
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask the solicitors for a copy of this letter. Without knowing what it said, how can you decide what to do? Or have any idea if Cabot are bluffing, as you optimistically asked.
Is there a default date on the credit record for this debt? When you last mad3 a payment has no relevance to when it will drop off your credit reports.
Martin says
Hi, I have tried contacting Next Gen, it appears they have gone bust. I have looked at old emails and one of the last ones said “we provided cabot with a letter of claim highlighting breaches within the agreement, they cancelled legal action and didn’t respond to any more of our claims. We have perceived this as admittance on their part as to why they have not made contact”.
Do you think if it’s worth me contacting Cabot to see if they have a CCA agreement or anything I have signed when they took my debt over.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I suggest you forget whatever Next Gen were doing as they obviously gave up on it.
I don’t think you shouls assumje that Cabot are bluffing.
yes you can ask Cabot for a copy of the CCA record for the debt.
Martin W says
Hi Cabot sent me a copy of the cca agreement and they were chasing me for a couple of months and they gave me a “final written letter” to say I still owe the debt. I haven’t heard anything from them for the last month and I have seen today the debt has been taken off my credit file. I am a little confused
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know what the default date was on this debt on your credit record?
Martin W says
Hi I think it was 20th November 2017 and Cabot says last payment to them was April 2018
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well the debt was due to drop of this month anyway.
Your problem is that if you do Make a payment arrangement they may start court proceedings. It’s hard to tell why they didn’t before.
Martin W says
Ok il just have to wait until I hear something, so they could still take me to court if it goes past the 20th of Nov when it was supposedly due to drop off. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the date of 20 November has no particular relevance if you made a payment in April 2018 – it cant be statute barred until at least May 2024.
Renie says
Thanks Sarah.
I did try to make a complaint but was told I needed to make it against the owner at the time rather than the original lender…it went back and forth numerous times!
So just to clarify, there is no point in requesting a CCA at this stage now there is a new owner of the debt?
Should I wish make a settlement offer, what is a reasonable % of the debt to suggest that might be considered?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh you can ask for the CCA. And it’s a good idea as it will prevent them going to court for a CCJ.
But if they can’t produce it, then your choices are what I set out – carry on paying, make a settlement offer or stop paying and live with the default for 6 years.
There is no guide to what a reasonable offer is. But the creditor may not accept a really low offer as they know you really don’t want a default so you are likely to just carry on paying.
Renie says
Thank you, this is very helpful. I’ll request the CCA and once I get a response, I’ll make an offer of settlement.
Much appreciated!
T says
Hi Sara,
I have a complaint against Virgin which has been with an FOS adjudicator for a while as there is a complication that the account was originally administered by MBNA before being transferred to Virgin. MBNA can’t seem to find the account details. However, I sent Virgin a CCA request back in January. I have proof they signed for it and they applied the £1 to my account but I have not had any response to my request at all. Given that MBNA can’t find details of the account I would assume that Virgin can’t produce the CCA. Do they not have to write to me and confirm? I still get statements which do not state that it is unenforceable or anything similar.
Just to note, I stopped paying them in October as planned to enter a DMP which I now think I can avoid following some successful complaints.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask Virgin to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable.
Does this debt show on your credit record?
T says
Yes it’s on my credit record. They have not defaulted me even though I have not paid since October.
I was originally hoping for it to default. The balance is now up to £20k but if my complaint with FOS is successful this would be significantly reduced. Once I know about the complaint I was going to start repaying but given they have not responded to the CCA request I wonder if I should.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you have two very different unknowns here.
Whether Virgin will be able to produce a CCA agreement – if they can’t the debt is unenforceable and you do not need to pay it, but it will still be on your credit record – there you have to choose between going back to the normal repayments to settle it quickly or asking for a default to be added and not paying it.
And whether your case will be upheld at the Ombudsman. Do you know the dates of when your credit limit was increased?
T says
There were increases in 2015 and 2018 but the original limit was almost £10k and based on other complaints that I have had upheld I am hopeful that the initial sale of the card was irresponsible.
Paul says
Good Morning Sara
Please could you help I requested a CCA agreement from Link few months ago and first they said could not find it, but now they have sent me a letter saying they are happy to enclose the requested documents with regards to Section 77/78 under the CCA 1974. On the credit agreement they have sent it is dated 08/12/2008 but no signature only a tick in the box with an old address of mine. Is this correct.
Thank You
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does the date sound right? Was that your address at the time?
Paul says
Hi Sara
Not sure about the date but the address is correct.
Thank you
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So they don’t have to send a copy with a signature. Unless you think there is something else wrong with it, it sounds like you will have to carry on paying them or make.a payment arrangement if you aren’t currently paying.
Paul says
Thank you Sara.
Janer says
Hi I sent off letters from your template back at the beginning of May 2023. I have had a couple of replies with the Cca attached – but 7 of the 10 creditors have been unable, so far , to produce the Cca and are just sending the odd email now and again to say they are still looking. These debts range from 2007-2009. I plan to leave it another month or so and then stop paying . I’m currently in a dmp who I spoke to about this , but they advised that I should continue to pay even though 7 of the 10 debts appear to be unenforceable. ( the 3 that have produced ccas I plan to offer a settlement to ) . I’m a bit confused as to why payplan are advising this ? I will need to leave the dmp and make my own offers of settlement to the 3 creditors as payplan won’t do this piecemeal on my behalf. Anyone else had this experience and can give some reassurance?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you want to carry on with PayPal, send them a reply saying you don’t think they should be advising you to pay debts which are unenforceable and repeat that you would like these debts removed from your DMP.
Douglas Wilson says
I was with Pay Plan for 14 years. At every review I felt they tried to take every spare penny I had. They do not seem to understand the concept of non-enforceable debts and can’t see why you shouldn’t pay them. I left them, made my own settlement offers for the unenforceable debts and have never looked back.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A practical approach
Northern Lass says
Hi, what % settlement figure did you offer Douglas? Did they accept? Thank you
Janer says
One company – Lowell offered a 20% discount yesterday which I got up to 30% which I thought was pretty low – I was hoping for at least 50%
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you want to offer a settlement for an unenforceable debt (and you don’t have to) it’s best to stop paying them for quite a while first. Shows you are Serious.
Steve Ward says
For information, I had a DMP with Payan for many years. When I followed the CCA request route & DCA’s couldn’t produce the documents, I instructed Payplan to remove those accounts from my DMP & explained why. They removed them without any issue. Remember they’re supposed to be working for you – they’re the service provider & you’re the client.
Douglas says
It varied. I tried 5% but no one would accept that. Most were either 10% or 20%. I had about 4 who agreed just to close the account with no payment.
J says
Hi
I would like to request the CCA for an old Barclaycard debt that was sold on to another company but I’m a little hesitant as the new creditor has at one time described the account as being in “pre-default status”, and this makes me worried they can issue a brand new default on the account, despite my first defaulting way back in 2012.
The account was opened in 2000. In July 2012 I was unable to pay the requested minimum amount of £250 on the June balance of more than £11,000. I called them up and agreed to pay £50 per month. The debt was transferred to another company in March/April 2013, who later on tell me they have taken over the reporting of the account to Credit Reference Agencies and they have described the account as being at “pre-default status” and is in “late payment” mode.
I still have the Barclaycard stayments from July to November 2012, by which time I was well in excess of three months in arrears.
So before I ask the current creditor for the CCA should I write first explaining the “pre-default” status description is wrong, or should I just request the CCA and then write to them again if they can’t come up with it? I am thinking that at that stage I could write to them to remind them they cannot add another default to my credit file if I don’t make any payments following their failure to produce the CCA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
does this account currently show on your credit record?
J says
No. But if they are referring to it in correspondence as being in “pre-default status” I am thinking this is their way of telling me they would be able to mark it as a brand new default on my credit record and this worries me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If there has been a previous default on the debt, they CANNOT add a new one.
Have you ever seen this debt showing as defaulted, not in any form of payment arrangement, on a credit report?
Have you checked all three credit reference agencies, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this.
Who is the new creditor?
J says
I’m pretty sure that it has not appeared on any CRA report since Barclaycard sold it on in 2013. Link Financial Outsourcing Limited brought the debt, but then I got a letter telling me the account was being assigned to IDR Finance UK II Limited (IDR), but that Link would continue to manage the account on IDR’s behalf.
I have just found an exchange of letters between me and Link from 2015. I had written to them pointing out my account was being reported as being in “late payment” mode. They replied saying they reported the account (to the RFAs) as being in pre default status, and that they will update my credit file to show I am in a debt arrangement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you checked credit reports from all three credit reference agencies?
Tracey Grant says
I have been in a DMP with Payplan since 2010 at no time did they advise me to make unaffordable lending complaints to my 4 creditors and by the time I contacted the FSO they told me I was over the time limit for making a complaint, just pointing out in case anyone on here is within an earlier timeframe and in a DMP with Payplan they wont advise you on this so try this route yourself, I only wish I had done this sooner, however I still have 3 years of my DMP to go and asked payplan about the idea of writing to my creditors to ask for true copies of my CCAs they have told me I need to do that myself so I have just downloaded the template and will get these done and sent off this week. Although Payplan took the worry out of everything since I made contact with them in 2010 and they took over all the repayments to my creditors which was a major worry less, they work alongside the banks and dont freely offer up advice about making unaffordable complaints or requesting CCAs. Thanks for all the expert advise on here Sara, much appreciated and I will let you know how I get on with my 4 requests.
Tracey says
Hi Sarah, just an update on my 4 creditors with my Payplan DMP. 2 with Cabot had responses for both saying the original paperwork can’t be produced and accounts are unenforceable. I have advised payplan to cancel both from next months payments. 1 with Link reply today states the original creditor has confirmed they are currently unable to comply within the initial timeframe, although the account is currently unenforceable it is acceptable for creditors to register and continue the reporting of a default. Its that part I am worried about all accounts were defaulted 2009 and have all dropped off my credit file and I seriously worry about these reappearing again now that my credit rating is good. The fourth one is with Santander who I haven’t heard back from yet and I think they may find CCA agreement so I will send a reminder in another week. I am thinking of giving Link another month do you think that’s a good idea? Any advise about my credit rating being affected with this per the Link letter wording above? All 4 accounts have been in my Payplan DMP since 2019 with no missed payments. Many Thanks for any advice you can provide.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The defaulted debts will not reappear.
I think giving Link another month is a good idea.
I suggest you ask Santander why they have not responded to your request – what sort of debt was this?
Tracey says
The Santander debt was formerly GE credit card many thanks for all your advice Sarah really appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I wouldn’t be surprised if they can’t produce the CCA for that.
Tracey says
Hi Sara Link contacted me to say this is an old Barclaycard account and they have been told the CCA paperwork can’t be found so debt is unenforceable they also said there was never a default originally back in 2010 so I would need to prove this or they will add a new one. I know all 4 accounts defaulted before going into a DMP but because it’s so long do you have any advise on how I could prove this. I can’t stop paying that one and risk a new default?
The Santander one, old egg card they have told me paperwork will be sent out next week.
The 2 cabot accounts are now not being paid by Payplan.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this Link debt showing on your credit record?
Tracey says
No all 4 defaulted 2010 and have fallen off my credit report after 6 years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case I suggest you go back to link and say this. Point out that if the debt had not been marked as defaulted then it would still be showing on your credit record. Say if they add a new default to your credit record you will be making a complaint that they are behaving unreasonably and are in breach of the consumer duty.
Tracey says
Thanks very much Sara much appreciated as always
Rebecca says
Good Evening Sarah
An old account has been passed to Lowell and they are now chasing me for payment. The last payment I made on this debt was in June 2019 when it was in an IVA plan that I had. I shortly after that date stopped my IVA plan as it was not right for me and have heard nothing about this debt until now. I wrote to Lowell asking for the original credit agreement and they have come back with the following:
That last known address on the account prior to the account being with Lowell was your current address. Correspondence would have been issued to your address making you aware of this account.
Payments have been made to this account last being on 20th August 2019.
We are unable to obtain any documentation from the original creditor due to the time that has passed.
Based on the information provided we consider the balance to be valid and owing.
Can you let me know how I need to respond to this?
Kind Regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back to Lowell and ask them to confirm that the debt is not enforceable as they are unable to produce the CCA agreement.
Paul says
Hi Sara
I have made a reduced offer which is below what I owe to Link of full and final settlement of the account, they have come back to me accepting the payment offer but in the letter they state “they will close the account and register a partial settlement with the credit reference agencies”. They do not say that it is a final settlement of the account, do I need them to state that it is final settlement of the account. As always your advice will be appreciated.
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does this debt show on your credit record?
Paul says
Hi Sara
Just checked Credit Karma and I cannot see the debt on my credit record.
Thanks
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then that is fine. Kepp the letter!
Tracey says
Hi Sara, i have written to my 4 creditors (all with my DWP which I have been paying without any missed payments since 2010), I sent the letters less than a week ago and had one response so far from Cabot, these debts dropped off my credit file years ago now but they confirm the debt unenforceable but say in the letter (coped below) I need to still pay? Any advice would be really appreciated, should I advise Payplan to stop payments of this debt? Also what is the limitation period they have to find the original paperwork? As always many thanks in advance.
Thank you for your request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Unfortunately, it appears that Clydesdale Bank are unable to provide the requested documentation due to the age of the account. If at any stage the documents become available, we will forward these
to you and the account will become enforceable once more if received within the relevant limitation period. Although your account is unenforceable, the balance remains payable and due and we will still contact you regarding the outstanding balance. Where you have an existing repayment arrangement with us, we shall continue to honour and regularly review this unless you miss your payments. Please note that any repayment arrangement does not affect, modify or vary the original terms of the credit agreement, we have just relaxed them to assist you with your current financial circumstances.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
all with my DWP
I assume that is a typo for DMP
Although your account is unenforceable, the balance remains payable and due and we will still contact you regarding the outstanding balance
That is true. However if you do not pay it, they can’t do anything.
This debt will not reappear on your credit record if you stop paying.
They are not allowed to threaten you with court action.
They are not allowed to ask you to make a payments unless they also say that the debt is unenforceable.
They cannot contact you an unreasonable amount – I would say more than once every few months is unreasonable if you have made it clear you will no longer be making paying – and if you do not want them to communicate by a certain method eg phone, you should tell them.
So what i suggest you do is when you decide to stop paying, tell them by email that you will not be making payments while the debt is unenforceable. from then on, keep a record of all contacts. And check that each mentions that the debt is unenfirceable. If you think this is unreasonable after a few months, come back here.
should I advise Payplan to stop payments of this debt?
yes you can do this now. Or you may prefer to wait a few weeks so that with any luck you can do it for a couple of debts at the same time.
what is the limitation period they have to find the original paperwork?
there isn’t one. But this debts sounds as though it is very old and it sounds like Clydesdale has said it no longer has it. No one is spending time trying to find this CCA agreement. It is very very rare for this to change and the agreement to resurface.
Tracey says
Thanks so much for all your help Sara your advice has been so helpful I cant thank you enough, yes iI did mean DMP with Payplan
Connor says
Hi Sara.
I have an alleged debt with Lowell for £5k. This relates to a hire purchase of a vehicle with Barclays Partner Finance, the defaulted balance was £11k.
The debt with the OC defaulted on 30/09/2017 and I made my last payment towards the vehicle on 30/11/2017. My vehicle was repossessed early 2018 albeit without signing any paperwork which I complained about. The vehicle was eventually sold and my statement shows this late 2018. I had a number of debts and at the start of 2019 I started offering full and final settlements to 12 different creditors, many of which were successful at 25p in the £1. Early 2019 I received a statement from Barclays showing the balance had been written off, which I thought great. This was then cleared from my credit reference agencies reports and my balance still shows as £0 and settled….
Fast forward to 2021, I received correspondence my Hoist allegeding a debt owed relating to my agreement with Barclays Partner Finance. I disputed this and stated that his debt had been written off and no further monies are owed. I didn’t hear back from Hoist so I thought they had gone away. Now in 2023, Lowell have taken over Hoists books I am now getting similar letters regarding an alleged debt relating to this account. In April 2023, I sent Lowell a letter disputing this. They have finally responded with a letter showing a statement of transactions which clearly shows the account being written off by the original creditor and are saying they hope this satisfies my query. Obviously it doesn’t. I believe the debt to be written off. I asked them to prove that a debt exists and all the transaction list shows is what I told regarding the write off. What are my options now? Shall I send another letter disputing their claim? I don’t have a copy of a CCA so should I ask for this? I honestly believed the debt was written and would have included them in my full and final settlement offers had I been aware a debt existed.
Just out of interest, what would the start date of the statue barred period be in this case? November 17 the date of my last payment or November 18, the date the OC sold the vehicle?
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So Barclays never informed you that the debt had been sold?
Did you have any dispute with Barclays which made you think they may have written off the debt?
Statute barring – it would help to know the date of a default notice that Barclays sent you. But subsequent correspondence with them or with Hoist may have acknowledged the debt. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 is you want to find out more.
M says
Hi Sara
I’m on a DMP through Money Plus (will stop using them due to the fees they charge).
I have a few questions:
1 – some of my debt is relatively recent, 2017-2019. What are the chances CCAs will be available for these? A lot of that debt now is with PRA
2 – One of my credit cards was with Nationwide, who the debt is still with. I’m assuming they will most likely still have the CCA, although the credit card was opened in 2009. What is the likelihood of this?
3 – Do I need to wait for replies of acknowledgement before saying “until I have a CCA i will assume the debt is unenforceable” or can I make the assumption once I send the letters off and state the above in my letters?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large are their fees? Their website doesn’t say… Definitely switch to StepChange – it’s very easy and then all your money goes to paying off your debts.
1. I can’t guess. Who were the original lenders?
2. Again I can’t guess – but there is very little risk in asking them for the CCA agreement
3. I always think it’s simplest to carry on paying for a couple of months unless they reply saying they are unable to obtain it. If you haven’t had a response in 2 months ask them to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable
M says
The fees are £46 per month
The original lenders were Barclays and MBNA for the more recent ones. I believe for all 9 creditors on the DMP, the original applications were done online or through the banking apps. I have requested the CCA agreements now but just want to manage my own expectations. I’m hoping to get at least some of the creditors coming back with no CCA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I believe for all 9 creditors on the DMP, the original applications were done online or through the banking apps.
This has nothing to do with whether a valid CCA can be produced – they do not have to be paper agreements that you signed
Shiv says
Hi Sara, I have been receiving quarterly correspondence to set up a payment plan. from Link re a debt that they advised was unenforceable as no CCA in May 2020. Their correspondence never mentions that the debt is currently unenforceable. Should I ignore the letters?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume you have told them you will not be paying this debt whilst it remains unenforceable.
You could ignore these letters.
But you can reasonably complain, saying that CONC 13.1.6 (4) says
“The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.”
Say that unless they stop sending these letters you will be complaining to the Financial Ombudsman and asking for compensation.
Shiv says
Thanks Sara.
Tracey says
Hi Sarah I asked Payplan about the 1 unenforceable account with Caboot their reply today is:
Regarding the Cabot account, as you have been paying this account since the start of your DMP, this means you have acknowledged the debt.
Therefore, the balance should still be paid off, which means it may be best to keep it on the plan.
Unless you are disputing the debt, we will keep it on the file.
Is this a standard Payplan response I know they work with the banks for the banks?
I am still waiting responses from the other creditirs all who are on the DMP for 13 years now also can cabot show non payment on this and reactivate on my credit file the original default is over 6 years ago and all are off my credit report? It’s that bit I am worried about.
Many thanks for all your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to Payplan and say that your understanding is that the debt is unenforceable, so you want them to stop making payments to it. Say it is not in yiour best interest to carry on paying this and you will be making a formal complaint if they do not remove it from your DMP.
can cabot show non payment on this and reactivate on my credit file the original default is over 6 years ago and all are off my credit report?
no. This debt will not reappear.
Tracey says
Hi Sara, many thanks for all your help. Payplan are removing both the unenforceable Cabot debts from my payments due 1st October. I have advised Cabot that payments will no longer be made and due to my current health condition any further communications are to be made via email only (no post, phone calls or texts). I have today received the following email from Cabot:-
“As previously advised, although the accounts are unenforceable, the balances remain payable and due. If the payment plans break we will continue to contact you regarding payment. So that I can ensure we are giving you the correct support, please could you give some more details of your current health condition. Please do not hesitate to contact us on the number below if we can be of any further help”
Do I need to give them details of my current health conditions as they have requested (I have had to reduce full time working to part time due to stress & anixety illness and other physical condition) or should I just ignore this now? Getting very nervous now as the time is close for the first payments to be missed after being in a DMP for 13 years. Thanks again for all your advice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am glad that Payplan have seen sense.
You don’t have to give Cabot details of your health conditions, but it may reduce the frequency of communications from them. I see no reason not to. You could point out that you find creditor phone calls and texts stressful and bad for your anxiety.
Tracey says
Thanks Sara
Steven says
Hi I currently have a debt with Intrum that was originally from Tesco. I have asked for a copy of the CCA. Intrum have advised they have contacted Tesco for the CCA. Should I give it 3 months to see if I get a reply? If nothing arrives the debt is unenforceable? Also the debt was 6 years old exactly in August.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If nothing arrives the debt is unenforceable until they can produce it – which may be never.
Are you currently making payments?
Steven says
Fingers crossed it’s never then. Yes I’m currently making payments but I only asked for the CCA on Sunday and got a response today saying they will request it off the original creditor.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
unless the payments are very large I would give it 3 months.
Steven says
Thank you for your advice
Steven says
Hi Sara,
It’s now been 45 days since I requested my CCA and still not had any kind of response from Intrum. I chased up I the 5th Oct and the 18th Oct and didn’t receive any kind of response from them only an acknowledgement email.
I also asked them to sort out access to their online portal for me as since they have owned my debt the online portal has never worked even after multiple phone calls asking them to rectify. Shall I just wait out until 3 months are up or raise a complaint with them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Honestly I would wait. But you can complain about access to the online portal now if you feel it is important.
Steven says
Thanks Sara I will wait it out.
Steven says
After nearly 62 days Intrum finally got back to me with the CCA and statement of account 😔
Steven says
Hi Sarah, me again. I have another debt with Barclaycard which has transferred over to PRA Group. It’s been 6 years now. I requested a copy of my CCA. Up above it states ;
It must be legible and it must include:
your name and address when the account was opened;
the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
What they have sent me is the following ;
Short form cancellation
Historic terms and conditions
Varied terms and conditions.
Nowhere in what they have sent me does it give details of my name and address of the creditors name and address of when the account was opened.
Is this right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It may not be – talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 or post on the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act
Joanne M says
Hi Sara, just wanted to update you on my progress. Intrum were unable to provide me with my CCA. They also did not reply in time to tell me this. Once I did hear this from them, I cancelled my DD they tried to chase the debt four times without telling me it was unenforceable at any point. I complained. They didn’t respond in time so I escalated it to the ombudsman. The dispute has now been closed and I’ve had my loan account closed and a £100 compensation issued due to them breaking the rules of the financial regulator.
Just wanted to thank you as without following you on social media and reading this point, I would have never known my rights never mind got compensation!
Thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Excellent. Intrum will also have had to pay a fee to FOS. Hopefully they will thing twice about doing this again in future to other people.
Steven says
Hi Joanne how long did you give Intrum out of interest, I’m waiting for them to provide me with mine, it’s only been just over a week like so they still have plenty of time.
Joanne says
I first requested it in April. Sent a reminder 6 weeks later to which they then responded about 3 weeks later saying they didn’t have my CCA and the rest went from there
Steven says
Thanks Joanne, will see how it goes then and give them another 5 weeks and follow up.
Thanks
Janer says
Hi Sara
I sent off letters to all my creditors back in May 2023 to request Cca. I’ve had a few responses and a few ccas back. I have 4 accounts with Lowell – on one they have written to confirm the Cca can’t be located but refused to say the debt is unenforceable stating that as I have been paying into a dmp I have acknowledged the debt . I have told them this is incorrect . I asked about the other 3 requests and they stated there was no update – but suggested I make new requests for the Cca on those accounts ( they have already replied to acknowledge the original requests ). This seems underhand to try to trick me into starting the process again and I of course declined and asked them to reply – but it suggested less than ethical behaviour.
On another point – I have a request with Cabot which I also haven’t received a reply on – this is in respect of an overdraft debt. My understanding is this may be still enforceable even if they can’t produce the Cca ?
Be very happy to hear your thoughts on this . Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
CCAs are not relevant for an overdraft – it is still enforceable.
I suggest you email a complaint to support@lowellgroup.co.uk and cc it to ashley.wynn@lowellgroup.co.uk with “COMPLAINT re unenforceable debt” as the title
Saying (you can put this into your own words and add any other dates etc) :
I sent you requests to produce the CCA agreements for my debts in May.
So far you have told me that you cannot produce the CCA agreement for x but as I have been paying into a DMP I have acknowledged the debt. This is misleading – acknowledgement is not relevant as I am not saying the debt is statute barred.
Can you please confirm that this debt is unenforceable in court as you cannot produce the CCA agreement. I draw your attention to CONC 13.1.6 which says that:
“(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.”
You have not yet responded to my requests for the CCA agreement for x,x, and x except to say there is “no update” and suggest I make a new CCA request which is not a helpful thing to suggest. Again I would like you to confirm that while you are unable to to produce the CCA agreement these debts are unenforceable.
If I have to send this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman I will be asking for compensation for poor customer complaint handling and treatment.
Paul says
Good Morning Sara
Please could you help I have received a letter from LINK confirming they are prepared to accept my offer in settlement of my account. It states ” following receipt and full clearance of the agreed payment, we will close your account and register a partial settlement with credit references agencies”. My concern is they do not say they have accepted the amount as the final settlement and that the account is closed and paid, as without them saying “final settlement” would it leave me open to associates of LINK coming and asking for the rest of the payment.
Best Regards
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds ok to me but you can ask them to clarify it if you are concerned.
Tracey says
Hi Sara, just wanted to update you on my progress with my 4 debts on current Payplan DMP. The 2 Cabot accounts no CCAs can be produced and are unenforceable and 1 Link account same, 3 confirmed unenforceable, all now off DMP and no further payments will be made on these 3. The one with Santander is an old Cahoot bank online loan account and they have produced and sent the CCA to me now so I will keep paying that one, it is a proper copy dated 2002 with my signature and all terms etc. I know PPI was on this account and know I am probably too late to make a PPI claim but do you think it is worth a try saying any PPI could be offset against the outstanding balance? Many thanks for all your advice and will let you know how the non payments go.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
i suppose you can try. But I have never heard of a request like this working after the PPI claim deadline.
You can still go to court… but you may prefer to find no win no fee solicitors that would do this. The problem is that their fees would have to be paid even if the win just reduces your balance.
Dee says
Good Morning Sara ,
About a year ago I had correspondence with cabot , I had asked for a copy of my CCA which was not produced and redeemed “unenforceable” and put on hold, I had a letter about every three months but nothing harsh, now i am getting every couple of weeks and they are becoming more threatening ,should I write to them again .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do these letters say the debt is unenforceable?
In what way are they threatening?
dee says
hi Sara, no they do not mention unenforceable they are coming every 2 weeks now I have had 5 letters since August and that they will”continue to contact me until they hear from me”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Email complaints@cabotfinancial.com and say:
————————————————–
I am complaining that you have sent me communications about a debt which is currently unenforceable.
This debt is – give the cabot reference number. You confirmed in [month/year] that you were unable to produce the CCA agreement
Since August I have had 5 letters from you, none of which mention that the debt is currently unenforceable as you are unable to produce the CCA agreement.
I draw your attention to CONC 13.1.6 (4) which says:
“The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.”
These letters are in breach of this FCA rule. I consider the letters are intended to mislead and also 5 letters in this period is excessive and badgering, so they are also in breach of the Consumer Duty.
Unless you stop sending me these letters I will be complaining to the Financial Ombudsman and asking for compensation.
dee says
Hi Sara That’s great thankyou for your advice I will do that right away.
dee says
Hi Sara I’ve just received a answer to my complaint regarding excessive contact, unfortunately I didn’t notice at the bottom of their letters in tiny writing it states that the debt is unenforceable which they have pointed out to me I didn’t see it as it was very small so they are stating that their letters are not misleading which I can agree with but then the E mail states that in the last 6 months they have attempted to contact me 44 times via the telephone and sent me 14 texts. and 8 lettersI have not received any texts and have not spoken to them and they don’t consider their attempts to be unreasonable although I still think that is excessive!
That doesn’t concern me, but they have said again that the CCA is not available and not enforceable but they have now put the account on hold for 30 days and then following the hold period their customer operations will be in contact again but that will reduce if I make a commitment to make payments which I have no intention of doing as they cannot provide the CCA they also state that they may consider sending an agent to my door , is this normal practice?
slightly annoyed!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has their reply to you said that you have the right to go to the Ombudsman?
Because putting the sentence about the debt being unenforceable in very small print is NOT reasonable and it is against the spirit of CONC13. Nor is contacting you 44 times via the telephone, sending 14 texts. and 8 letters – that is badgering you when you have explained you will not be paying an unenforceable debt.
The FCA’s Consumer Duty says that a firm must act to deliver good outcomes for retail customers. Cabot’s policy seems desigmed to do the opposite, to put its desire to be paid ahead of your right to be treated reasonably.
dee says
Hi Sara yes they say I can write to the ombudsman if I don’t agree also I forgot to mention that they are putting large red writing on the letters stating account overdue which distracts from the small print
Martin says
Sara
I have a large debt that I defaulted from memory back in 2010 for credit card taken back in 2000. The debt has had the merrygoround of debt collectors and was purchased a few years back by a debt purchasing company.
Every month I have been on time paying what I can back with regular contact to them advising of my situation and what I can afford to pay.
I probably have been cash cowed but live in the fear that they will send a CCJ for it and enforce the debt.
However every time it’s due for review I get myself sick with worry that they won’t accept what I can afford and just slam a court order on me.
I just don’t know if it’s worth carrying on just doing what I have been doing or to start asking questions to them about it’s enforceability. I’m just worried if they start digging and find what they need to say oh we now know it’s enforceable and just commence legal proceedings.
Is it worth just to carry on paying what I can to them or start asking questions. Just petrified if I ask and they dig and find I be in a worst state than what I am in now.
Or do you think I just carry on paying and should a nasty letter arrive advising court action ( I’m aware that they have to do that now to let you know first) then to fight back.
I’m just all over the place on how to handle this the best way.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
All I can say is that it may well be impossible for the debt collector to produce the CCA for this very, very old debt.
How much are you paying a month? Could you afford any more? (I am not suggesting that you should offer more.)
Martin says
I’m paying 30 quid a month but it would be years until the balance would clear.
I just don’t know if it’s worth holding tight and just pay what I agree with them. Should they start to become nasty or playing games to pull that trump card on them.
Just concerned also after reading some when a court claim notice arrived they find it difficult for them to halt it by requesting this information late in the day.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In the event they can find it – which sounds unlikely – then you just carry on paying. It is NOT normal for a creditor to suddenly rush to court because they have the CCA. If you look back through the comments here, I don’t think you will find this is a problem people have reported.
But it’s up to you if you are happy to keep paying for a quiet life.
It is much more stressful and difficult to try to ask for the CCA when you have received a court claim form.
Siobhan says
Hi
I am in a DMP with PayPlan, I have 14 creditors which include 5 Lowell, 2 Lantern and 1 link, aswell as some obscure ones. Most of these are credits such as PayPal, catalogues and lending stream. Catalogues were from around 2013, PayPal was 2017. Is it worth me asking for the credit agreements for these? Even just PayPal and Very would be a massive reduction if not enforceable.
The rest are from collection agencies for NatWest etc so these are more likely to have the agreement. One is everyday loans but they have rejected my claim so that one is being appealed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Definitely worth asking for the catalogues. PayPal – no idea, not heard of anyone ask for one, worth a try.
Janer says
Hi Sara – I’ve been waiting for CCAs on 4 accounts managed by Lowell . This has gone on since may when I first wrote to them . I made a complaint to them and their response has been that although they still cannot produce the CCA they have purchased the debt legally and as such are entitled to pursue it . This seem totally at odds with my understanding. They have given me 30 days to decide how I want to proceed but if I decide to stop paying they will take further action against me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have they confirmed that the debts are currently unenforceable as they have not been able to produce the CCA agreements?
Janer says
No they are saying the production of the CCA is irrelevant- their stance is they sent a notice of assignment to me when they bought the debt and as such they can enforce it as they are not the original creditor
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And they are saying this for all 4 debts? What sort of debts are these – loans, cards, overdrafts…
Janer says
Yes – credit cards and a loan ? They ended by saying take advice and come back to us on what you want to do ?? I’m wondering if there has been some case law change? Totally puzzled . I can’t send the whole letter as it’s too big
“We are still working to obtain the credit agreement and statements relating to the other accounts which are listed above. I must advise that these documents would only be required to prove the validity of the balances while the accounts were live with the original creditors. For Lowell to take further action in relation to the accounts, we would only need to prove that we have purchased the accounts and have legal ownership of them./ from the letter!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you email a complaint to support@lowellgroup.co.uk and cc it to ashley.wynn@lowellgroup.co.uk with “COMPLAINT re unenforceable debt” as the title
Saying (you can put this into your own words and add any other dates etc) :
I sent you requests to produce the CCA agreements for my debts in [date].
You have told me that you “are still working to obtain the credit agreement and statements” and that “For Lowell to take further action in relation to the accounts, we would only need to prove that we have purchased the accounts and have legal ownership of them.”
This is misleading. Can you please confirm that these debts are currently unenforceable in court as you cannot produce the CCA agreement.
I draw your attention to CONC 13.1.6 which says that:
“(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.”
If I have to send this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman I will be asking for compensation for poor customer complaint handling and treatment.”
Janer says
“Thank you for your email.
As stated in my previous response, the credit agreement for the account would be required for the original creditor for the balance to be enforced through court action. As we have purchased the account via a debt sale agreement, we would only be required to show that we have purchased the account legally.
My previous response outlines our final position on the matter. If you are unhappy with the outcome, I would recommend that you raise your concerns with the Financial Ombudsman Service using the details provided below.“
The response from Lowell
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK off to the Ombudsman then!
Here is the Financial Ombudsman’s form to send them a case: https://help.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/help. It is NOT easier to send them an email, use this form.
You are complaing about Lowell. That last email (or was it a letter?) was their Final Response.
There hasnt been any court action yet and none is planned (You can mention later in the complaint about lowell’s threats – this isnt yet the start of court action. If you get a Letter Before Claim/Action from Lowell or for any firm of solicitors about these debts let me know and also let the ombudsman know. I don’t expect this to happen.)
“Tell us about your complaint – what happened”
Explain your request for the CCA agreements, Lowell’s responses and the subsequent exchange of emails. Mention that Lowell say they can go to court without having the CCA agreement which feels like a threat.
“How have you been affected – financially or otherwise?”
Explain how much time this has taken and how stressful this has been. Say that if they go to court (which the FCA’s CONC rules say they should not) it will be a lot worse and you want to try to prevent this.
“Why do you disagree with how the business has handled your complaint so far, and how would you like them to put things right for you?”
Say that you think Lowell’s responses have been misleading and they are trying to threaten you to get you to make payments to a debts which are unenforceable. Say that this is a breach of the CONC 13 and the Consumer Duty.
Say you want Lowell to acknowledge the debts are currently unenforceable unless they produce a true copy of the CCA agreement. And you would like compensation of £250 for the stress and inconvenience of this.
Those would just be my notes – add / amend as you see fit.
Janer says
Thanks – I’ll let you know how I get on.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also tell Lowell that you are sending the case to FOS.
Janer says
Hi Sara
Just an update – I put my complaint into FSO just over a week ago. They have returned to me to say they are investigating and allocated an officer . In the meantime Lowell have written to me stating that they have cancelled 3 of the 4 debts ( approx £9k) but one debt totalling £4K still remains . This dates back to 2007 and since my request in may 2023 for the Cca they have been enable to produce it. I’m a bit puzzled really why they have left this on the books yet cancelled the other 3 ? I guess we will see what happens when the FSO complete their investigation into my complaint.
Thanks for your support – I’ll keep you posted
Jeff says
Hi Sara, I recently received an email for a debt that I don’t recall from a very long time ago and am in the process of getting proof before agreeing to pay back what I owe them if necessary.
That’s all fine but it does remind me of other debts I had a long time ago. About 7 years ago I had a DMP with step change with had a few debts on and eventually I cancelled the DMP and set up manual agreements with the debt companies I had debt with except for 3 which I couldn’t get in touch with and honestly had completely forgotten about until receiving the email for 1 of them today.
I’m just wondering seems as the other two which are missing and I have no memory or correspondence to refer to what can happen to me? I know which company they were originally from before the debt was transferred to a collection agency and I’m just a bit worried that they will bite me in the future and would rather get in touch with them now but I’m not sure how or what to do.
Do you have any advice for this? Sorry if this is not the right place to post this. I would prefer paying them back and not having a looming anxiety over me but I’m not sure what to do or how to find them. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debt was the one that has got in contact? You havent made a payment for more than 6 years?
Jeff says
Yes no payments were made for that long as I could not get in contact with them and they have only just emailed me now, it was an old credit card debt and the other two I think were bank loan and overdraft but I’m not sure how to contact them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so two things. First if you haven’t paid anything for 6 years it may well be that this debt is statute barred by now. I suggest you phone National debtline on 0808 808 4000 and talk to them about this. They have a template letter you can send a debt collector saying this.
Of course if the debt collector can’t produce the CCA, it is unenforceable anyway. But if they can, then you can point out it is statute barred.
The other advantage to this is you can use it for an overdraft too – where a CCA agreement isn’t relevant.
It’s up to you if you want to contact the two old debts. yYou need to contact the last know debt collector and if they no longer have it, ask who they sold it to.
Amit says
Hi Sarah
I have an old debt that I was repaying that had a CCJ its over 8 years now and is not on my credit report. In between it has been sold on multiple times. I have asked the recent buyer to send me the agreement under the CCA. Initially they came back and said that they couldn’t produce it but would expect me to pay as i have been paying. I went back and said that it was under duress and if it is optional I would choose to stop paying. Now they have come back and said that because there was CCJ in August 2014 the CCA request does not apply as there has been a CCJ that has been obtained for this old debt and they will continue to pursue the debt. Is this correct. Thanks.
Amit
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were you aware there had been a CCJ?
Amit says
Hi Sarah
Yes. At the time panicked and since it had gone to court agreed a monthly payment plan. Soon after Barclays sold the debt and since it has been sold two or three times. It’s only recently I clocked that it had come off my credit file due to the time passed . So when it was sold again thought I could ask for CCA thinking if they could not provide it maybe they could not enforce it. But wasn’t aware about time spent CCJ being the exception .or at least thst is what they are claiming Thanks
Amit
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unfortunately they are right. There is no obligation to produce a CCA after there has been a CCJ.
WHo is the current debt collector? What is your financial situation like at the moment?
Amit says
Hi Sarah
It’s Lowell. It’s £40 a month and I can just about afford it so if that is the case guess will continue the payments until such that I can . Many thanks for confirming.
Regards
Amit
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If it gets to tight, ask Lowell to reduce the payment.
john says
i have 4 debts with lowell two are from over 6 years ago and two are for newday credit cards. could i ask for CCAs for all 4 debts in one letter or would i need to send 4 seperate applications.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest 4 separate applications. Each enclosing the required £1
john woods says
Defaulted on two credit cards in 2014. I contacted StepChange and they helped arrange a TPP. Since then the debts were purchased in January 2018 by Cabot and Intrum. I have been offered an option to make a partial settlement leaving the debt ‘partially satisfied’. They then tell me that my outstsnding balance will show as zero on my credit file. Should I request a CCA in the first instance? If so, should I contact Step Change and do it through them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how big a discount are they offering? have you been making token payments since 2014? Are you paying them direct ort via StepChange?
Sophie says
Hi Sara,
I have credit card debt (£3888) that was taken over by Cabot and they applied a default charge in May 2018. With the 6 year expiry date looming I’m hoping to gain some insight into the next best move. I currently pay a TPP directly to them and last received a letter Oct 2023 offering a partial settlement figure of £1118.00. Would it be wise to take them up on this offer before the default expires to avoid a CCJ or should i request a CAA ?
Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
a default charge in May 2018
I assume you mean added a default to your credit record with that date.
last received a letter Oct 2023 offering a partial settlement figure of £1118.00. Would it be wise to take them up on this offer
You would have to check that the offer is still available.
before the default expires to avoid a CCJ
Because you are making token payments, this debt will never become statute barred and Cabot can go to court for a CCJ even after May 24 when it is no longer on your credit record. So accepting the settlement offer may or may not be a good idea, but the default date isn’t really relevant to your decision.
should i request a CAA ?
If Cabot can’t produce the CCA you can just stop paying.
A lot depends on your situation – can you afford to make this payment without borrowing? This is an old debt that no longer has interest added – don’t change if for a debt that will be a problem and on your credit record, even if it is smaller.
Sophie says
Hi Sara,
I will hopefully soon be able to make the payment offered without borrowing if it still applies but in the meantime if I continue to make the current token repayments on the owed money in full and on time every month can Cabot still issue a CCJ?
And Thank you for you speedy response. Greatly appreciated :-)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“if I continue to make the current token repayments on the owed money in full and on time every month can Cabot still issue a CCJ?”
Yes Cabot could choose to go to court for a CCJ. This would be unusual unless they think you could pay more or you are refuding to talk to them.
But it isn’t as quick as just “issuning a CCJ” – they first have to send you a Letter Before Claim/Action – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ for what one of these looks like so you know it is important if you see it. With the letter Before Claim is a a Reply Form where you can ask them to produce the CCA agreement for the debt – if they cant, the y should bnot go to court as the debt is unenforceable.
And in almost all cases a debt collectoer will be asking you about your situation before they send a letter Before Claim. A CCJ doesnt just appear out of the blue.
Sophie says
Thank you so much Sara for your time and help it is greatly appreciate and Happy New Year :-)
Es says
Dear Sara
I have requested a CCA for a debt with Lowell (opened 2015). They say a CCJ was applied in 2020 and therefore they do not have to send me the CCA and will continue to pursue the debt. (£1,800 via Step Change). Do I have any other course of action please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were you aware there is a CCJ? does it show on your credit record?
COH says
Hello Sarah- Lowell Financial (Debt collector) via Overdales solicitors, have issued a claim on two credit agreements that I don’t recognise and am not responsible for. Original creditors; capital one- defaulted Dec 2016 and next plc – Defaulted Jan 2016. I challenged challenged overdales and have sent back acknowledgment submitting my defence. I then mailed a second letter to overdales, requesting Credit Agreements and a breakdown of the accounts. I subsequently received a letter from overdales solicitors containing a list of transactions with no branding or creditor contact info. However, they are yet to provide me with CCA’s requested I have now been offered mediation, which I don’t see any point in, when they haven’t sent the credit agreements on which they rely for their claim. Can you please advise how I may respond. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t give advice on a claim in progress. You can talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and/or post on the Legal Beagles court forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues/received-a-court-claim
Sue says
Hi Sara(Debt Camel),
I have received all of a sudden from Debt collection agency for something which I never owed I made a call out to this company Aspect 2 years ago they took my bank card that was taken was for invoice 160+Vat(which they never issued). However at end of the job they sent me additional £423.36 invoice. I contacted first Aspect to give my refund, as I had to call another engineer to complete my job. Aspect ghosted me and wasn’t responding. Bank took evidence and refunded the extra Aspect charged me with warning if Aspect comes back and dispute they will call me back. Aspect had 45 days to claim which they did not. However all withdrawal done be Aspect was without consent and invoice.
Aspect did not raised invoice of £436.36 but charged me. Aspect had 45days to claim from Master Card the £192 pound which Bank refunded me under section 75 and Consumer rights. Now CRS is saying me to pay for something I dont owe. Aspect took money without my consent.
CRS has given wrong invoice number and date of the job. I have send them Prove It Letter but again they have not replied to each evidence but said wrongly the work was carried out so I am liable to pay.
Please can you advice what I can do.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is not a consumer credit issue – you have posted this comment on a page about Consumer Credit Act documentation and that is not relevant at all to you situation. If you were thinking of asking for the CCA agreement don’t do this as there isn’t one but that will not help you.
I suggest you talk to the Citizens Advice consumer helpline about this, see https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/if-you-need-more-help-about-a-consumer-issue/
Amy says
Hi Sara, My partner has some old debts from 1998, incurred before we met, from when he had to stop work aged 49 due to illness. He doesn’t think he actually defaulted on the debts at the time-Citizens Advice then helped arrange a repayment plan of a nominal amount to each of his creditors.
One of his creditors is TBI Financial, who he has been paying £1 monthly since they purchased the original debt in 1999. It is now down to below £400.
As a test, he sent a £1 along with the template letter to ask for a copy of his CCA and statement. Now he has received a letter from David Jones Solicitors, the ‘in-house solicitors’ for TBI. They advised ‘unfortunately our client company is unable to provide you with a copy of the agreement that you entered into…due to the age of the same’ (1994). They provided a ‘Statement of Account’ and said ‘our client company looks forward to continuing to receive monthly instalment payments from you’
The letter coming from their Solicitor has spooked my partner a bit – but I am thinking this is a deliberate ploy to try and intimidate him? Re next steps: Should he send another letter asking them to confirm that the debt is unenforceable? Or does this not matter now as they have admitted they are unable to provide the CCA (and have not mentioned needing time to look for it etc). And if so, does this mean (if he can pluck up the courage) he could just stop paying them now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, I suggest he asks them to confirm that the debt is unenforceable.
Amy says
Thank you so much Sara – will do
Bene says
Hi,
I requested a CCA to Lowell but I think they sent me an application form as it states in small print above the signature box “Your application is subject to status”
The Terms & conditions are “Agreement terms” from 2021 when the application form was signed in 2014. On the application form, some small prints say to refer to certain clauses that aren’t included in the other document, however they can be found in the copy/paste job on the back of the last page. I am certain of this because of the font used, there is no page number at the bottom and it’s after the direct debit info and M&S small print legal details (trademark, address, etc….)
I had a look on the FCA website and it states:
CONC 13.1.4 (3) The terms and conditions should be those applicable at the time the agreement was executed. The name and address at the time of execution must be included.
Am I correct to think that my name and address should be on the Terms & Conditions?
And the statement of accounts is an excel spreadsheet that I could have done on my own computer. No signature to be seen on the document.
I will reply saying they have failed to send the requested documents, I have a year and a half before it’s statuted barred. Date of default
13 Nov 2018, doubt they have the date of my last payment and this debt will drop off my credit file at the end of the year.
Bene
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the section How can you tell if it is right? in the article above and talk to National Debtline if you are unsure.
When did you last make a payment to this and is that shown on the spreadsheet you were sent?
Bene says
There is nothing except for a column with balance and the amount of my debt. No details to how they came to this number or when last payment was made.
Date on the homemade spreadsheet says 17 Oct 2023, few days after requested the CCA. It’s a screenshot that was copy/paste on the back of the letter. Not signature.
Bene says
I made the last payment in august 2019. Had to check my bank account as it’s not showing on my credit file
Jay says
Hi Sara, I had an alleged debt with Idem servicing, I went down the CCA route and they eventually admitted it was unenforceable and I stopped paying, last year Lowell contacted me about the same debt, I sent them a copy of the Idem letter saying unenforceable, they are still sending me the standard threatening letters a couple of times a month, can anything be done to stop these ? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do the threatening letters say the debt is unenforceable?
Jay says
Hi Sara, no they do not, they look like standard letters that must be generated periodically? I’ve only responded to them once last June when I sent them a copy of the Idem letter with a covering letter, I’ve even had one offering 50% reduction, I’m not sure which way to approach it next? Thanks for your reply
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply to Lowell and ask them to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable.
JAY says
Thank you Sara, I’ll do that