The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) gives you the right to be sent a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of your account for most loans, credit cards, catalogues, store cards and Hire Purchase agreements.
CCA agreements are important! If a creditor can’t find it then:
- you can’t get a CCJ for the debt; and
- you may decide to stop paying the debt.
But the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to:
- debts where there already is a CCJ;
- overdrafts,
- many household bills or tax debts;
- pre 2008 loans for more than £25,000;
- mortgages.
Sometimes asking for a CCA agreement is a good idea, but not always.
It shouldn’t normally be your first thought if you are having trouble paying a debt to the lender.
Asking for the CCA normally only works if your debt has been sold to a debt purchaser – unless the debt is very old.
Contents
How to ask for your CCA agreement
There is a template letter to ask for your credit agreement in this National Debtline factsheet. That factsheet also has a lot of information about CCA agreements and if you have any problems with one, talk to National Debtline.
This is not the same as templates asking for a copy of your personal information or making a Subject Access Request. If you want to find out if the debt is enforceable, use the specific CCA agreement wording.
Some points to be careful about:
- ask the current creditor for the CCA agreement, not the original creditor;
- you have to send a cheque or a postal order for £1;
- send the letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it and the postage receipt.
Also read the rest of this article first! You need to know what you will do if the lender sends you the agreement and what if the lender doesn’t.
What happens if they don’t send the CCA agreement?
If you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
If the creditor can’t easily find the CCA agreement they may send you an acknowledgement of your request. Something like the following is typical:
we acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information but as we have to request the details from the original lender we anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request.
A 40 day period is often mentioned but doesn’t have any legal standing.
It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.
I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them.
“Legal but not enforceable”
The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.
The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.
When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment. Here is what I suggested to a reader who was getting letters that left off this important fact: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”
Here are some more implications of the debt being legal but not enforceable:
- if you claim a PPI refund, this may be set off against the balance you still owe.
- the debt can still be sold to another debt collector. Make sure you keep all the CCA agreement letters or emails so you can just tell the new creditor you asked for the CCA agreement on dd/mm/yy and you won’t be paying anything to the debt until it is produced.
- you may be able to leave the debt out of an application for a Debt Relief Order so it won’t count towards the maximum debt limit. Talk to your DRO adviser about this.
- See below for the effect on your credit record.
“So I can just stop paying?”
If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.
But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months.
If the debt is in a DMP you will have to tell the DMP firm to stop paying it. Dent them the letter from the creditor saying they can’t locate the agreement.
You may find the idea of not paying scary. If you do, talk to National Debtline about this debt and the rest of your financial situation. It does help, being able to talk to a friendly expert!
I would allow the debt collector two or three months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found it in the first few months the chances of it turning up later are very low.
“The creditor hasn’t said it is unenforceable”
Occasionally a creditor will tell you they cant produce it but you are still legally liable for the debt which is true, but irrelevant – if they cannot produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court.
Sometimes the creditor goes into a lot of detail about how you have been paying so the debt isn’t statute barred. Also true but again irrelevant. You weren’t suggesting the debt was statute barred.
In this sort of situation, tell the creditor that you are not disputing whether you are liable for the debt or whether it is statute barred, but you would like the creditor to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have produced the CCA.
If the creditor persists with this, make a complaint and then send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Here is the story of a case involving an old HSBC debt, where HSBC had to pay compensation for not admitting the debt was unenforceable.
“What about my credit record?”
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? Check all three credit reference agencies to make sure.
If it isn’t on there, then it will never reappear, whether you pay it in full, in part or just stop paying.
A debt marked as defaulted will drop off 6 years after the default date:
- it will not drop off sooner because the CCA cannot be found;
- the balance will not normally be set to zero because the CCA cannot be found.
When the debt does not have a default date, if you stop paying now, a default will be added and it will then drop off in 6 years. Not good news! Read What should the default date be? and ask the original creditor to add a default date back years ago.
A default will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. And you shouldn’t want that to happen – it would mean the record would stay on your file for even if you stop paying.
The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it.
“Should I offer a low settlement amount?”
Some people decide to offer a low settlement amount. I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t need to do this! Not paying them anything is a perfectly good response in most cases! It is VERY VERY rare for a debt to turn up later.
A lot of creditors simply reject the low offer, even though you think it is sensible. They know that if they refuse you may decide to give them more. You cannot make a debt collector accept this low offer or complain they are being unfair if they don’t.
If you really want to make a settlement offer, stop paying them for a few months and then make the offer. That shows they can choose between your low offer and nothing.
The only time when you should try to get the debt settled is if it will still be showing on your credit record in a year or two when you want to apply for a mortgage. Then getting the debt marked as satisfied will help your mortgage chance a lot. But if the debt is no longer on your credit record or is dropping off soon, there is no need to do this.
What if they do send the CCA agreement?
How can you tell if it is right?
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
- your name and address when the account was opened;
- the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
- the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
- any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
It doesn’t have to have your signature on it. Indeed if you opened the account online you may well have signed it “digitally” and there is no document with your physical signature – this is perfectly legal.
If you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct, you can ask National Debtline about it or you could post about it on the Legal Beagles forum.
This may sound complicated but usually either the creditor admits they can’t find it or what they send you is fine.
What should you do when the CCA agreement is found?
This depends on why you were asking for the CCA agreement.
If the creditor has started a court case (you have been sent a Claim Form) then you may have hoped that the CCA agreement could not be found. But now you have it, that is not a possible defence so you need to think if you have another defence. Talk to National Debtline about your options.
If you were planning on making settlement offers to some debts and were hoping the lack of a CCA agreement could get this one settled very cheaply, that has been ruled out and you need to proceed with a more substantial offer.
If you are fed up with having to pay this old debt for many more years, look at your alternatives. If you just stop paying, you may get taken to court – especially as the creditor now has the CCA agreement ready to hand! If you have more luck with some other debts turning out to be unenforceable, can you now pay more to this one? Or is it time to look at insolvency or other options?
When should you ask for the CCA agreement – and when shouldn’t you?
A lot depends on your exact debts, who the original creditor was, who the debt collector is, and what your other options are for tackling them. So there isn’t a simple checklist here.
How old is the account and has it been sold?
The older an account is, the less likely it is that a CCA agreement will be found. It’s the age of the account that matters, not how old the debt problem is. You may have only defaulted on a catalogue account a couple of years old, but if it was opened in 2010 that’s well worth a try!
For a debt that is still with the original creditor, I wouldn’t bother asking for the CCA agreement unless the debt was VERY old or you are getting letters from solicitors about court action.
If a debt has been sold once it is less likely the current creditor can produce the CCA agreement. And this gets harder the more times the debt is sold on.
Court action and CCJs
If the creditor is seriously threatening court action, always ask for the CCA agreement. It is worth a try!
But when you already have a CCJ for a debt, it is too late to ask for the CCA agreement as the creditor doesn’t have to send it. If you have just found out about the CCJ you need to look at your options for “setting it aside“, not send a request for the CCA agreement.
Contacts about a very old debt you have heard nothing about for years?
If you haven’t been paying a debt for years and you aren’t being hassled by a creditor, you need a good reason to ask for the CCA agreement. It may be better to wait and see if you are contacted and then ask for the CCA.
But when you are contacted about a very old debt, asking for the CCA agreement is a very good idea. you should think first if the debt is statute barred, Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template you can send the creditor saying the debt is statute barred. This is simpler than asking for the CCA agreement.
But if the creditor comes back with a reason why it isn’t statute barred, then your next step should be to ask for the CCA agreement.
Hoping to settle debts with a windfall
If you have a windfall – an inheritance say – and you have a lot of debt in a DMP for several years so most of it is with debt collectors, asking for CCA agreements before you make offers is sensible. You don’t need to pay them anything if they cant produce the CCA.
Thinking about bankruptcy, a DRO or an IVA
Where insolvency (DRO, IVA or bankruptcy) looks necessary, it can be a waste of time asking for CCA agreements, unless not paying those debts would make the rest manageable.
Contacted about a debt which not yours
If a debt collector says you owe money but you don’t recognise the debt, you should send them a Prove It! letter saying you dispute the debt. Here the CCA is only part of the picture. You may get sent a copy of the CCA in answer to this – if the name and address on the agreement are yours and you did live at that property at that point, it is good evidence.
But keep focussed on the fact that what matters is proving who the borrower is.
Here is a case “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment” where a debt collector admitted the debt was unenforceable as the CCA couldn’t be found but wrongly still asked for payment.
Summary
In summary, asking for the CCA agreement is an uncertain process that can take months. If you have a lot of debts, make sure you are looking at the bigger picture, as well as thinking about the individual debts.
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
When to ask for a debt write off
john c says
I’m a little confused, I have debts (just still within the 6 year timeframe) but was advised that legal action can still be sought if I am at the same address stated on the debts, and, that with so many CCA’s now signed digitally online rather than a physical signature a simple copy can be used if the name/address still matches that of the original debt. Can anyone confirm if this is incorrect information?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who advised you about this?
You have the right to ask the current creditor to produce the CCA agreement. If the credit was digitally signed, they don’t have to produce a document with your signature in ink on it – that doesn’t exist. But they have to produce a true copy of the agreement.
You may think this is easier if you haven’t moved. But in practice debt collectors don’t have a team of people working on how to forge the CCA agreement who will be relieved that you are at the same address. They will ask the original lender to produce it. I can’t see it makes any difference if you have moved or not.
Can I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. There is a lot of poor information on the internet about this sort of thing and National Debtline can give you the correct advice.
john c says
Hi Sara
It was an advisor at my local CAB, and was regarding past catalogue debts which have now been passed to Lowell who I have had no contact with for the past 3 years but still get phone calls, e-mails & letters, none have yet threatened legal action but offering hefty discounts as a full settlement, all of which I haven’t to date responded to. With regards to the CCA…as it was, what appeared to be a standard form, surely it would be very easy for them to simply make a copy of it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you have been sent something you are not sure is correct, read the How can you tell if it is right? section in the article above.
Barry Gamble says
Hi Sara,
Just an update on my particular case that I sent to the ombudsman regarding CCA’s from Link financial.
I have two accounts with them (my last two) I sent requests in 2019and received copies but didn’t realise there was problems with them until Jan 2020 (from reading this website & National Debt Line) 1 doesn’t include my name or address, and the other had T&C’s dated over a year before i started the account.
Links response was that they are allowed to miss information like this out, and the T&C’s on the other are dated so because that’s when they were printed and that’s ok (acc start July 2008 – T&C’s dated Jun 2007).
The guy at the ombudsman who has picked it up, said he doesn’t think they have done anything wrong and he thinks the paperwork looks right as my name was on a separate sheet(cancellation form) not the CCA.
I have replied back with I didn’t expect them to force link to say they are unenforceable but to agree that the information I have been sent does not meet the guide lines on the CONC 13.1.
Even though by Links own letter which I have sent on my last correspondence to the investigator admits details are missing.
I am just waiting for his next reply, but hes insisted that the ombudsman will side with him and his decision.
Guess i need to take it to court? or just offer a low monthly figure of £5 as they have came off my report now.
Anyone have any ideas?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FOS will generally not give an opinion on whether a debt is unenforceable – they say that is up to the court.
I have replied back with I didn’t expect them to force link to say they are unenforceable but to agree that the information I have been sent does not meet the guide lines on the CONC 13.1.
That is an interesting approach. I have no idea if it is likely to work.
hes insisted that the ombudsman will side with him and his decision.
All FOS investigators/adjudicators say that in all cases. It is no reflection on the merits of your case. You can ask for this to go to an ombudsman if you want. I don’t know if you are likely to get a different result.
Guess i need to take it to court?
Well you can just wait and see if they sue you.
How large are the debts?
I am sorry but I am not going to give my opinion on the paperwork you have been sent either.
Barry says
The largest is 4000, this one I’m disputing the date of the paperwork, and also the first T&C doesn’t refer to the same thing the front page says it should, so my argument is that it is not a true copy but i think i will have to take this one on the chin and work on paying it.
The second is 2300 and this one doesn’t include my name and address, (it is a reconstituted generic Egg agreement). This one I will have to see what happens, but think I have more of a chance with.
They have fell of my credit file now, so I may just offer the minimum I can.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you tried asking on the Legal Beagles forum? https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act
barry says
Yeh I posted on there back in September, it has plenty of views but only my comments keeping track of progress if any one was interested.
https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act/1546018-barclays-egg-cca-s-are-they-enforceable-now-link-financial
ME says
Hi Sara,
Firstly, thank you for the time and effort you invest into this, truly outstanding and I’m sure I speak for many people when I say how valuable, and appreciated, your advice is.
Hoping you can help with my particular situation.
I am currently looking for a mortgage with the intention of buying a property sometime in May/June.
I am also currently on a DMP, however all of the defaults have dropped off as it’s been over 6 years.
I am in the process of settling them all but the timing means that I will I be applying for a mortgage whilst they are still active.
Do I have to declare these to the mortgage company?
Also worth bearing in mind that the DMP payments do not show up on my bank statements.
Help appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why do the DMP payments not show in your bank statements?
Kg says
They usually ask you if you have been in one in last 6 years and/or it may be on your credit file. I know when I was looking to apply about 2 years after my dmp ended they said no because it was within the last 3 years on my credit file.
Dan says
I’ve asked Cabot for my cca as they are threading a ccj for a loan from Yorkshire bank from 2008 they haven’t been in contact for years they have sent a letter saying they Carnt find it and are going to ask Yorkshire bank for a copy of the credit agreement what does this mean do I have to start paying again to stop them taking me to court thanks
Weatherman says
Hi Dan
It depends on whether they’re able to get the credit agreement from Yorkshire Bank. If they can’t, then they can’t take you to court. If they can, then yes, you’d need to start paying again or risk a CCJ. It’s generally a good idea not to stop payments until you’re pretty certain the CCA isn’t going to show up.
If starting making those payments again is going to be difficult for you, National Debtline can help you work out your options: 0808 808 4000
Aaron Wilson says
Just a quicky Dan…usually, the Bank/ Card Company will suspend your account (meaning no payments need to be made) whilst they look into your CCA Request. well, that happened to me with a few Banks. Good Luck…it really works…although it is nerve racking, keep your cool and keep records. Research this stuff and run it like a Military operation. Open a case file for each debt you owe and keep records. When letters were sent and copies of those letters, when you had a reply, if at all. Especially after the 8 week period they have to comply with your CCA Requests. Review Each account/ case file, then create your next points of action/s.
Tony says
Hi I have asked pra group for my credit agreement in November 2020 and today they still saying they are waiting on Barclays replying my debt is with step change now for over 10 years I spoke with them on the phone and they have said this will be unenforceable if they can’t produce the credit agreement is this true and what are my options can I stop paying them??
Steven Ward says
Absolutely Tony, stop paying immediately.
Their advice was close, but not quite correct – they should not have said ‘it will be unenforceable if they can’t produce….’ legally they had 12 working days to comply, therefore debt became unenforceable 12 working days after your CCA request was received by them & will remain so until they are able to produce it. If they haven’t by now it is highly unlikely they ever will. One of my accounts with Link Financial was previously with Barclays (£9.5k). I found out at the beginning of February that Link had ‘forgotten’ to let me know Barclays replied to them last September to say that they didn’t have the information as they hadn’t kept it. In fact I now understand that some institutions make it a condition of selling on debts that they will not be required to provide credit agreement information in the future.
If PRA contact you again it is a requirement of FCA Guidelines (Section 13.1.6 – failure to comply) that they make it clear to you that the debt is unenforceable. If they do not, let them know that they are acting in breach of FCA guidelines & listen to them squirm.
Tony says
Thanks for the advice my Barclaycard is over 11 years old debt paying through stepchange pra group saying due to COVID 19 things are slow moving understandable but it is now going on 4 months still no agreement think I will give them another 4 weeks then ask stepchange to remove them until I do pra won’t put a hold on my account either hard people to work with I did offer them a reduced offer but turned down flat I owe £2500 at present and I offered £1500
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s up to you if you want to wait longer but I think 4 months is plenty long enough.
Tony says
Thanks Steven pra group are playing hard I offered them a reduced offer was turned down my debt is £2500 at present I offered £1500 no go they said due to COVID things are moving slow so think they will receive credit agreement it is now nearly 4 months think I will allow another few weeks before stop paying through stepchange my Barclaycard debt is over 10 years old now and my debt has moved to few debt collectors in that time
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if your debt has moved to several debt collectors, each time it makes it less likely that the CCA can be produced.
Tony says
Thanks Sara scary to think I can stop paying after 10 years can’t imagine what they will do yea 4 months is plenty going to tell stepchange to remove PRA group and wait knowing my luck the agreement will turn up cheers
Tony says
Thanks Sara I will tell stepchange to remove pra group will pra group do anything I have been paying this debt for over 10 years but has been through few debt collectors in that time nervous now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
probably not! They may tell you the debt still legally exists – you can reply that if they find the CCA you will happily include it again in your DMP.
Michelle says
Hi, I am so pleased I came across this page! I have various debts dating back to around 2006 that I pay a small amount towards every month.
After reading this I am going to ask for the CCA agreements and see if there are any that I don’t need to pay.
My concern is that 4 of these debts show on my credit file, they currently show as defaulted but shows ‘no data’ against the monthly payments.
If any of these come back without CCAs and I stop paying would that change how they look on my credit file and reduce my credit score further (its not great as it is)?
Am I correct in thinking if I keep paying it will stay affecting credit file for as long as I am paying them (10+ years) and if I can manage to stop paying them they will stay on for 6 years from the last point I paid? Many thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Am I correct in thinking if I keep paying it will stay affecting credit file for as long as I am paying them (10+ years) and if I can manage to stop paying them they will stay on for 6 years from the last point I paid?
yes.
You can also go back and ask the original creditor to add a default back when you actually defaulted, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/. Then the debts would drop off your credit record immediately.
michelle says
Fab thank you, is this just if they don’t have the CCAs? I assume if they do have them then I need to keep paying and it will be on my credit file until it is paid off? Thanks!
michelle says
Hi Sara, just an update to say i have requested the CCAs from 5 companies so far. One has come back to say they will ask the original lender for it but also said if they can’t get it I still owe the debt and they can add it to my credit file if I don’t continue to pay. This is one that has never been on my credit file and I have paid towards the debt for many years, do you think they can do this? Many thanks!
Cathy says
I will soon have a sum of money to pay off debts which are old, and currently being paid via DMP. The defaults dropped off last year.. I’ve asked Hoist and Link for the CCA forms so I can negotiate lower amounts to pay them. Hoist have replied saying this could take 90 days as they have to go back to the original lender, link have not replied. Do I have to want 90 days for Hoist to get back to me, and how long should I give Link?
Weatherman says
Hi Cathy
It’s a good idea to give them a couple of months – it can take a bit of time to dredge up the CCA, and you don’t want to be in a position where you’ve stopped paying but then discover they have the CCA, as they might apply for a CCJ against you.
If you’re trying to negotiate a settlement rather than stop paying altogether, they might just refuse to do so until they’ve worked out whether they have the CCA (or negotiate as if they do have it, which would mean wanting a higher settlement).
It’s up to you of course, but if either Hoist or Link can’t get the CCA forms, they can’t take enforcement action against you – so you could just stop paying altogether if that happens, especially as the defaults have dropped off your credit report. The main thing to know if you do that is that legally you would still owe the debt, and a mortgage lender might ask you if you have *any* debts (on your credit report or not).
Cathy says
I’m not going to stop paying I’ve been paying for 8 years and had every intention of paying them all off. I just don’t quite have enough money to do so and am hoping they will be understanding. I would feel more confident knowing the CCA status to ask for the reduction. It’s a divorce settlement and I need a certain sum for a house and want to use the rest for the debts. It will be such a relief to get this settled.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is a good chance thot if you don’t stop paying they will reject any offers from you. There are there to make as much money as possible from you, not to be understanding.
Cathy says
If I stop paying will they be able to take me to court and get a CCJ? This is what I have avoided for years. If we come to an agreement will the debt go back onto my credit file as paid off and if so how long will it stay there? It doesn’t show at all right now,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to wait for a couple of months as Weatherman says. At that point you can assume it is VERY unlikely the CCA will be found. So you can stop paying. They cannot go to court if you have asked for the CCA and they have not been able to produce it.
If it ever is found, then you simply start paying again. But hardly ever happens.
This debt is never going to return to your credit record.
Cathy says
Update: Link say the original creditors (Barclaycard and bank of Scotland) cannot comply within 12 days. They say the debts are currently unenforceable but the OS balance remains collectible and creditors can register a default. This isn’t going to happen as they dropped off my credit file ages ago. I’m now not paying, (uncomfortably) and waiting a couple of months as you suggest.. I will update When I hear back again. Hoist say they are still searching, and it might take 90 days. For info, Hoist have returned the fee cheque, saying the charge no longer applies, Link banked the cheque and it’s been paid.
Cathy says
If I make a full settlement offer and it’s agreed should I pay straight away over the phone or wait for some sort of written confirmation first?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you get it in writing
Cathy says
2 months + on and still no CCA form and no letter from either Link or Hoist stating the debts are unenforceable. Do they have to tell me the debts aren’t enforceable or could this Mexican stand-off be permanent? I phoned link to offer 10%, they said no they want 70%, I don’t have that. They said they chased Barclaycard 7 April and Covid is making everything slow. I’m interested to know What’s the longest time anyone has ever waited?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At some point you just have to stop paying or they will never accept a low offer from you. Why not give it another month if you are worried and then stop?
Steve says
Cathy stop paying now!!!
I found out in February that both Barclays & MBNA had advised Link in September 2020 that they could not provide the CCA / statement information, but Link kept it quiet from me. After doing some more digging I discovered that some years earlier, Barclaycard had made it a condition of ‘selling’ a debt on to a DCA that they would not have to provide any detailed account information. Best advice would be to stop paying & if you really want to, write & tell them that due to your current financial position you must concentrate your efforts on clearing the debts that are enforceable, but that should they be able to provide the documents in the future you will add them back into your payment plan.
Cathy says
Wow that’s pretty shoddy behaviour from Link. I see what Sara means about them not aiming to be understanding. What digging did you do to discover that, Steve if you don’t mind me asking? I’d like to see if that applies to my debt. I stopped paying in March but a payment went into the debt in April, DMP’s run a few weeks behind, so May will be the first missed payment. I will write to them, thank you.
Steven Ward says
I just searched around for information & found a post on an online forum, an ex-Barclays employee had posted that particular snippet. To be honest I don’t know how accurate it is & have no way of verifying it, but it rings true. Once the CCA information is requested, the DCA’s probably know they can’t produce it & are on a lost cause, so if they ask you to give them 2 / 3 months weeks while they try & obtain the paperwork from the original creditor, if people carry on paying that’s a few months extra payments they can get in before the account holder gets wise to it. Luckily I stopped paying after the 12 days was up, but I can now see the tactics they use to try & get peple to continue paying.
Cathy says
*update – 3 months on, 2 payments missed and a letter from Link encouraging me to call as ‘we are here to help’ and ‘want to understand your circumstances’
No threats of legal action so I guess they haven’t found the CCA form.
Not sure at what point I should contact to make my offer again.
The Mexican standoff continues.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why not just ignore them?
Cathy says
I wish I could. I find it stressful to have it hanging over my head. Even non threatening letters make me anxious. I just want it resolved.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, well the longer you wait, the more likely they are to think that is all they will get.
Jane J says
Hi Sarah, I asked Arrow for a CCA in oct 2019. An old sainsbury bank debt from 2006 had been sold to them some years ago and I had been making regular payments up to that point. They wrote back in Jan 2020 saying they ‘do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested…….We confirm that all collection activity will be suspended pending provision of the documents’. They haven’t sent any CCA related documents since, and I stopped payments in Mar2020. They have since sent regular statements of account and letters asking me to call to set up a payment plan. They never wrote to acknowledge the debt as unenfoceable. They have now written to say they have engaged Resolvecall to call at my home to assist in collecting the outstanding balance. Are they allowed to send people to my home under these circumstances? what can I do about this? (debt circa 3k)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They can send who they want but there is no reason for you to open the door to them. A caller on behalf of a debt collector has no legal right of entry.
I suggest you send them a complaint saying that you asked for the CCA agreement and in Jan 2020 they said they would be suspending collection activity. But they have still not replied to your CCA request so you would like them to confirm whether they have been able to obtain the CCA.
Mark says
Hi I have asked for CCA 77-79 from fairfax solicitors who then told me they have asked for the documentation off max recovery 2 weeks later i recived confitmation they have the document but can’t send a hard copy because of covid but had to log on to fairfax web site to downliad it all they have got is a photocopy of my agreement but with no terms and conditions where do I stand with this and what should I do next.
Thanks
Mark
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read How can you tell if it is right? in the article above which suggests who you can talk to about this.
Jess says
Hi
Hoping for a bit of guidance, any advice will be much appreciated!
What happens if I’m paying an old debt, I ask for a CCA and they produce it….can they then demand the full outstanding balance at once or will the regular repayments carry on as normal?
Many thanks
Jess
Weatherman says
Hi Jess
To be honest, they can demand the full outstanding balance at once at any point. But if you can’t pay that, all they can do is apply for a CCJ – and the court will look at what you can actually afford, and tell you to pay that.
So if you’re already repaying the amount you can afford, there’s not really any benefit to them of demanding the full amount. Not impossible they’ll do it, but it won’t end up changing anything for them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This isn’t something that normally seems to cause a problem. Look back through the comments here…
Amy says
Hi, I have around 12 really old accounts with Lowell and asked on the 12th for all the CCA arrangements. I just emailed and asked and didn’t pay the £1 but spoke to them yesterday and they said they are still waiting and all my accounts are on hold. Reading through the other comments, do they have 12 working days to provide this? I have stopped paying also. My question is, 3 of these are active on my credit file, never defaulted but just active. If these become un enforceable, will these be cleared off or will I have to still pay these or make a settlement offer to get them off my report? I am just trying to avoid these accounts defaulting as I have been working hard with my credit report. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The 12 working days just means they can’t go to court until they produce the letters. realistically you have to allow a couple of months before you can start feeling confident they won’t be able to produce them
The debts are not cleared from your credit record if they become unenforceable. You need to contact the original creditors and ask them to add a default date back over 6 years ago, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/. Then Lowell has to use the same date and they drop off immediately.
ReadYOurRights says
I had a 12 years long DMP (after a broken marriage that left me neck deep in debt). Last year , after reading all the comments, I checked my credit file and realized that all of them had disappeared from my files long ago. I asked my creditors for a copy of the credit agreement and only one was able to produce however they had already accepted my settlement offer.
I had a few credit cards ranging from £500-800 and a massive overdraft + Loan from Natwest for £18k. I offered all the credit cards a token payment of £20 to close down the account and they accepted. Today, I received my acceptance letter from Natwest and I’m very pleased to announce that they accepted my offer of £200 (yes £200) to settle my account. I’m absolutely over the moon that I can now put my past life behind me.
Douglas says
That sounds very positive. I’m at an early stage in getting CCA agreements 14 years after entering a DMP. I have an old overdraft with Barclays and wrote to them offering a 20% settlement as I know the CCA doesn’t apply to overdrafts. I was very disappointed that they refused to consider it and stated that I had to offer the same to every creditor on a pro-rata basis. I take it NatWest didn’t go down that route?
Aaron says
I sent a prove it letter to Barclaycard who was requesting payment for a account that don’t belong to me. the response to me was as follows:
Dear Mr ….
Barclaycard account number: 492915** ****2005
Thank you for your recent contact.
In order to resolve your query, we would like to speak with you. This is so we can ensure we provide you with the right support and any queries you may have can be explained fully over the telephone. please call our recovery department on 0800 161 5207.
I hope this information has been of assistance to you and we look forward to hearing from you.
Is this them not being able to prove it and not wanting to put it in writing?
what should my response be to the above letter?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you phone them up. This is usually much the fastest way to try to resolve this sort of problem.
Andrew says
Hi, me and my partner have 20 debts with an outstanding total balance of £75K. Debts are now with 1stcredit,A.I.C,apex,link,hoist,Robinson way,arrow and 9 of the debts are with Cabot. We have been making monthly payments for the last 14 years and none are showing on our credit files. Was looking to try and make a low settlement offer. Unsure about what to do about cca’s. What steps would you suggest we take
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you have a house with equity?
I suggest you should ask for CCA agreements for all loans, credit cards and catalogues. After 14 years it is a fair bet that quite a few can’t be produced.
Andrew says
Yes we have equity in our property. Do we ask for the cca that you pay £1 for and if so where do we go from there
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Article above goes through the process of how to ask for the CCAs. Yes pay the £1s.
Some creditors will come back quite soon and say they can’t produce the CCA. Some will send you the CCA. Others will say they are asking the creditor for it.
After a few months you can probably safely ad=ssume the CCA cannot be produced and stop paying those debts.
Then you can offer settlement amounts to the ones where the CCA has been produced.
Steven Ward says
Andrew, if you haven’t done so already, carefull read Sara’s article above these posts & use the link above to the letter template on the National Debtline website. Once you’ve sent the letters (recorded & signed for so you have proof of receipt), just wait for their reply. It will be daunting at first, but if they contact you & haven’t yet provided the CCA information (they probably will & the caller will plead ignorance & say they weren’t aware), just politely remind them that they haven’t replied to your request (give date of letter) & as such the account is unenforcable so you won’t be making any payments. After replying to the first few letters / phone calls you’ll feel more comfortable / confident with it & the letters & calls will become less frequent.
I’ve posted lots of information previously which you should be able to find by searching the threads under ‘OLD DEBTS’, so won’t go into detail here, but I wrote to several DCA’s in August last year to request CCA’s for 10 accounts totalling around £42k. All but one were unable to produce the required documents. 5 accounts are with Cabot, 2 with Link, 1 with Hoist & 1 with Lowell. Cabot still write to me every couple of months offering a 75% discount & in the same letter confirm that the debts are unenforcable. I haven’t paid anything since last August & don’t intend to.
Andrew says
Thanks for your response.
Some of our creditors have made us reasonable settlement offers. Would you advise to still ask for the cca’s or could doing that affect the offers they have already made
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How reasonable?
Andrew says
Some have made no offers, but between 40 and 70% discount settlement
Sara (Debt Camel) says
After 14 years, 40% is not a reasonable discount! I would be thinking 80% or more.
You don’t have to do all these CCA requests at once. You could try with the other creditors first, and just tell the ones that have made you offers that you can’t afford that much now and you will contact them in future if things change.
Andrew says
I will send letters to the creditors who have not offered us any settlement offers and wait for there reply. Thanks again for your help
Jess says
Hi
Would you advise asking for CCA if the debt is still on my credit file? I’ve been on a DMP for 7 yrs (got 2yrs left) One was taken over by a debt collector in around 2016. I have already asked the original creditor to add a default but they refused saying it only reached the stage just before default. Another was only taken over by a debt collector this year (after I made a complaint to the original lender but they said as my complaint originates from more the 6yrs ago they don’t have to look into it). Again I never reached the state of default with them as I only missed a few payments.
Also are creditors unlikely to accept a settlement if a CCA is found and I only have 2 yrs left on DMP?
Many thanks
Jess
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Would you advise asking for CCA if the debt is still on my credit file?
It would be ok if the debt is defaulted – then it will drop off 6 years after the default date.
But if the debt isn’t defaulted it will only drop off 6 years after it is settled. So you can’t stop paying it. So there isnt much point in asking for the CCA.
I have already asked the original creditor to add a default but they refused saying it only reached the stage just before default.
I suggest you reply that you will be sending the complaint to the Ombudsman unless they reconsider.
are creditors unlikely to accept a settlement if a CCA is found and I only have 2 yrs left on DMP?
They may well not accept a settlement offer, even if you hadn’t asked for the CCA. With so little time to go, why would they not just sit back and get it paid in full?
Jess says
Thanks for your advice. I received £2000 from my parents which I was hoping to use to clear my debts now but would then have to hope all creditors would accept 50% settlement figure…no harm in asking I suppose!
Andrew says
When sending cca’s letters do you send original account no or their reference number or both
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are writing to the debt collector, so send their reference number.
Andrew says
Hi Sara,
We have 2 debts with NCO Europe/Arrow. We have recieved periodic statements for both accounts showing payments we have made and balances. The letters include details of our fixed sum credit agreement including original agreement amount, annual interest rate and dates when the agreement was taken out and transferred.
Does this mean they have the cca….
Would you advise to still send csa request
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, those are routine statements. It is still worth asking for the CCA.
Andrew says
Thanks I will send requests.
We have 8 debt which are held by Cabot.
Should we send each CCA request separately by recorded delivery or send all 8 together with 8 separate cheques for £1
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would send them all together – with a cover letter saying here are CCA requests for the following 8 debts…
Andrew says
Do we need to send 8 cheques payable for £1 or just one cheque for £8
Steve says
I agree, I had 5 with Cabot & sent 1 letter listing all 5 account references & a cheque for £5. That was last August, no paperwork returned so far so all unenforceable 👍.
Tony says
Hi Sara I have asked Lowell debt collectors for my credit agreement and they have sent me a photo copy of application I made in 2006 very little information on it I phoned them up and they said this is what capital one have sent and this is a agreement can they use this or I’m thinking they have not got one??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read the How can you tell if it is right? Section in the article above.
Tony says
Yea has none of the information above just has my name and address job title and signed that’s it no credit information at all and they said this all they have from capital one and it’s a credit agreement???
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So as the article above says, you can talk to National Dbetline about what to do now, or post on the Legal Beagles website.
Sam says
Hey Tony
How did you get on with Lowell regarding this agreement. I just got sent the same from an application in 2002.
steven prosser says
I was in a dmp with Gregory Pennington but they kept raising the monthly fees to a point that made it impossible to sustain I then started to use [legal firm] who were headed by barrister [name] he has since left them but still works for me at no cost I have six creditors and had never heard of the cca method before have any others used their services and if so what are your thoughts as the debt companies haven’t provided the correct paperwork [name] has deemed my debts unenforceable I still get letters from my creditors but he has told me that is all they can do
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am not keen on these firms. In most cases all they do is send the standard template letter you can yourself send for free as the article above says. And they charge a lot for it!
In your case this seems to have worked and you aren’t paying anyone any more. But do you yourself have the acknowledgements from the creditors that the debts are not unenforceable? If not, what are you going to do if a creditor starts a court case against you as you have no paperwork saying the debt is unenforceable and why?
Kay says
Hi, I have a very old debt which I have been paying off for years. I took out a car finance loan with Black Horse in 2004 and defaulted in 2005, I was 18 and had a crash and couldn’t afford to carry on with the repayments plus my insurance didn’t cover the damage. Anyway they ended up getting a CCJ around 2005/2006 for £2 a week as I was a student with no money and my mum who was the guarantor was on a low income. I had increased these payments to £10 a week a few years later but when I went into a DMP in 2018 they have been getting around £10 per month since. This debt is now with Cabot Financial and I have recently requested my credit agreement. Would this still be worth getting and would they be able to enforce the debt if they don’t have the agreement. Would it matter that Black Horse had a CCJ in place years ago? This debt has been haunting me forever and I still owe £3,875. Thanks for your help in advance!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
After you have had a CCJ, the creditor no longer has to try to look for the CCA agreement, so this isn’t going to help.
Kay says
Thanks Sara, is there nothing I can do about this debt then?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are the total debts in your DMP? How much a month are you paying to the DMP?
Do you have other debts or arrears that aren’t in the DMP?
Are you buying or renting?
Kay says
The total debts are just under £9000. I am paying £47 a month towards them. I don’t have any other debts or arrears and I am renting but hoping to buy soon. I can’t enter into an IVA or bankruptcy due to my job. I have applied for CCA for some of my other debts and I am trying to clear my credit report. I have old debts that shouldn’t be showing too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then there is probably nothing you can do.
You probably already know this, but while you are paying a DMP you will not be able to get a mortgage at an OK rate even if the debts are all off your credit record. So a mortgage looks a very long way away.
Helen says
Can anyone advise me please. I have a 4k debt left on a 12k AA loan from around 2008. It was dealt with by a debt management company paying Link since 2012. I stopped using the DMC and paying off the debt in 2018 and intended to make a settlement offer. In 2019 I requested the CCA but they never responded to say if they could or couldn’t find it. In subsequent phone calls I said I wouldn’t discuss debt until they responded to the CCA request. They never did and now it has been passed to a solicitor who is threatening court action. I know they can’t take me to court until they produce the CCA but should I respond to the solicitor or to Link?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you send a £1 cheque with the CCA request letter? Was it cashed?
Michael says
Hi guys,
In November I requested my CCA agreement from 3 historic debs (circa 15 years +) that i’ve been paying via Step change. Only one provided the CCA agreement to which i’ve negotiated a reduced settlement. With regards to the other 2 debts, it’s been 5 months and i’ve received no CCA agreement. My last correspondence from both was acknowledging that they were unable to locate the CCA agreements. I am now leaving the country to move to the US and I would like to get rid of this historic debt with an offer of 5% of the balances (circa £6k and £189.00 respectively). Could someone direct me to a template for a letter I could write to these companies to request my debts be closed? They are not on my credit file. Thank you in advance!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I hope you have stopped paying them?
michael says
No. I reduced my payments in October to a token amount whilst I waited for my CCA. However, i’ve just cancelled my DMP and the payments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I would wait a couple of months so they realise you have stopped paying. Then offer them 5%. There is no template letter. If they don’t accept, then more fool them, you aren’t going to pay them more.
Mwelwa says
HI Sara, I had a circa 5k debt that has dropped off my credit record but I had been paying a debt collection agency a token amount. After requesting a CCA they have come back and said they do not have it and would like a further 12 days to ask the original lender. this was defaulted in 2014. I have canceled the DD for the next payment until a CCA is provided. per you comment above I will offer 5% once the DCA call to query the non payment. My question is will mortgage lenders be able to see that I have this dispute even if its off my credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is pretty normal for it to take more than 123 days for the CCA to be produced. you can’t really assume it won’t be for a couple of months.
If they call, just tell them you will resume payments if the CCA is produced.
A mortgage – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/mortgage-debts-not-on-credit-record/
Mwelwa says
Hi Sara, Its going onto 60 days now and still not a word from DCA. Im not sure whether to send them a reminder or a letter saying they are in breach of their obligation to provide the CCA. I also read through your mortgage thread and also checked all 3 reference agencies and they are all in the high scoring range and there is no trace of the debt. I feel a little bit in the grey with whether I should go ahead and apply for the mortgage.
I would really appreciate your opinion.
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask them why they have not replied to your letter.
Have you been paying them?
Mwelwa says
Thanks Sara,
No I stopped paying them as soon as they said its unenforceable just so I could get their attention.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you have made payments to them in the last 6 months? In that case you will have problems applying for a mortgage as the lender will see them, not on your credit records but on your bank statements.
Mwelwa says
Yes I have made payments until April. I only have two clear months I will wait a little while longer before my application.
Many thanks
Just out of interest do you have a donations page. Its much appreciated what you do on here.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A donation to your local Citizens Advice would be great!
Debi says
Hi Sara
Im not sure what to do, I took out a Lloyd’s loan for £10.000 & had a Lloyd’s credit card reached £8,000 in approx 2006 both were for my ex husband he has never paid me anything towards them. I have been paying £25 for the loan & £10 per month for the credit card ever since with no added interest. They are both now off my credit score but I want to get rid of them for peace of mind, I can’t afford to pay them off in full so do I ask for a CCA or just offer a settlement I have about £3000 to pay both of them.
one is with PRA and the other is with Cabot.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should ask for the CCAs. It may be that neither can be produced so you can save your money!
Debi James says
Thank you that’s what I thought so I am going to write both letters tonight with two cheques is it okay to write it on a computer and digitally sign it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you will have to print the letter off anyway to post with the cheques. So it’s simpler to sign it!
Debi James says
OK thank you.
Debi says
Good morning Sara I have received a reply to my CCA request they have sent back my original letter with the cheque and a letter stating that they are unable to fulfil the request as they have not yet completed the required security checks full name, date of birth, previous address to verify my identity I don’t understand why they require what do you recommend.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this PRA or Cabot? I suggest you phone them up and ask what they need from you as you are currently making payments to the debt so surely they know who you are?
Lisa says
I have been paying £21.00 per month for years now on a dmp with stepchange and requested a cca from moorcroft who are handling the debt for Lloyds, which has unfortunately been produced. The debts dropped off my credit file years ago now! At this rate the remaining balance which is £14,321.46 will not be paid off in my lifetime and it is a heavy weight on my shoulders. My parents have offered me £2,100 as a gift (which is equivalent to nearly 9 years of payments at my current rate) to see if they would except this as a full and final settlement. Do you think they would be likely to accept this please? And do I make the offer to moorcroft or Lloyds? The original loan was £25k taken out in 8th January 2009.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s rare for asking for a CCA to work when a debt hasn’t been sold.
Can I ask if you have any health issues? Are you buying or renting? Is this your only problem debt?
Lisa says
No major health issues other than high blood pressure but do feel down having this debt over my head. I have a mortgage for my house. Yes this is the only debt I have. To be honest I was hoping they wouldn’t find the cca and then they may have been open to accept a f&f settlement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can offer a full and final settlement, it’s worth a try, make it clear that the money is coming from a relative only if the offer is accepted. Otherwise just sit back and carry on paying the debt, no point in worrying about it if the repayments are affordable.
Lisa says
Ok I will try nothing to lose I suppose and like you say if not I just keep paying the £21 per month. Thank you for your help.
Amy says
Hi Sara, I have been waiting just over two months for Lowell to produce the CCA for around 6 accounts and I still haven’t heard anything. I was paying them monthly before, only a small amount each month and I think the accounts total up to around £2k. I stopped paying them two months ago, this was agreed by them whilst they were on hold. I am just wanting to know what will happen if they cannot produce them as when I mentioned on the phone to them that they would not be enforceable if they could not produce these they said I was wrong. These accounts are old catalogues and not on my credit file but they won’t re—appear on there will they? I don’t think the accounts ever had a default. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they can’t produce a true copy of the CCA agreement, then they can’t take you to court for a CCJ.
How old are these accounts? Have you checked your credit records with all three credit reference agencies, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this?
Amy says
I think two are from 2014 and the rest are before then but I couldn’t say when. I have checked all 3 reports and they are not on there so they must have been older and dropped off. I do recall one saying something like CIAS assigned to another member but this has dropped off. So if they can’t supply them I don’t have to do anything/pay? I just do not want to end up with a default. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, a debt that has dropped off cannot reappear.
Jules says
Hi Sara, so my debts approx £11k ( credit cards, overdraft, loan) are 13 years old from when I unexpectedly became a single parent. I organised a payment plan in 2007 with advice from Stepchange £3 / £1 / £1 that I have kept up the payments on. The debts have since changed hands and I periodically receive offers of 50% settlement figures but I have avoided any communication and have just continued to pay monthly – I’ve always been on a low income. Am now keen to deal with these debts and have been advised today that I am eligible for a DRO. Would it be advisable to request CCA’s before committing to a DRO? Reading this thread I am wondering if there is a possibility that one or maybe even all of the debts may not be enforceable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how many debts do you have in the DMP? Are tehy all loans, credit cards or catalogues? Any overdrafts or bills?
Are there other new debts, eg utility bills that would be included in your DRO?
Jules says
Hi Sara, the 2 £1 payments are for separate credit cards, MBNA and Capital One almost £2k each and the £3 is for a First Direct a/c which consolidated the loan/overdraft/credit card together
No new debts since 2007, just these old ones
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How many of these debts have been sold to debt collectors?
Jules says
All of them have been sold on
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case is seems worth a try asking for the CCAs. A DRO normally takes about 10 weeks to set up at the moment so you can get going on that too, so if a couple of lenders produce the CCAs you can just go for the DRO.
Jules says
Thank you, am going to get started on it right now!
Daz says
Good morning, i recently requested a copy of my CCA from PRA group regarding a catalogue account they bought the debt for, they have sent me a letter apparently with the information i requested on it but on the other side is a printed ‘credit agreement’ with my details at the time of taking out the account, no mention of any credit limit or a signature from me, i’ve received a credit agreement from another account with the same company and that is a genuine drawn up copy, does this one i have count as a valid CCA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the How can you tell if it is right? section in the article above.
Jules says
Hi again! I am in the process of requesting a CCA for 3 old debts from 2007, 2 of them I will be contacting the debt companies they have been sold on to but the third, Capital One Credit Card, I have just realised that I have had no correspondence from them at my new address (have been here 10 years so I must have failed to notify them when I moved) have always paid the agreed £1pm by standing order so have never had a need to communicate with them. How do you suggest I approach this? I have just been to my old address on the off chance they kept/had knowledge of any mail in my name but they said no. I would presume they have sold on the debt (£1500) but is there a way to find out who to? Or should I just send the CCA to Capital One and inform them of my new address? Have checked my credit score with the 3 companies you suggest but there is no information on there – to be expected as the debts are older than 6 years – is there any way to see my whole history? Am unsure how to proceed, should I just continue to pay the £1pm for the rest of my life and just concentrate on the CCA for the two other debts first? If they produce them I will be going for a DRO anyway so I could contact Capital One then maybe? I appreciate your help, thanks Sara.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry you have to be sure who currently owns this before you start asking for the CCA.
Ask Capital One who they sold the debt to and who they are sending the £1 a months to. And then ask that firm if they still own the debt or if they have sold it.
But while you are doing this, you can ask for the CCAs for the other debts.
Jules says
OK so I can give them a call and ask for this information then. I guess I should be informing them of my current address too?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes.
Jules says
Makes me anxious at the thought of contacting them! Ok, got it… will do! Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
your alternative is just to go for the DRO. Less hassle, more certain , but a wrecked credit rating for another 6 years.
Jules says
True but the DRO makes me nervous too! I will be brave and try for the CCA, if by a stroke of luck the £8k debt is unenforceable then the other two are manageable, one creditor is already offering me a £500 settlement on theirs so at least I can then finally move on with my life.
Jules says
Hi Sara
Have been following all comments and can see a CCA cannot be requested for an overdraft. Looking back over my paperwork First Direct grouped all my debts together, loan, credit card and overdraft totalling approx 8K. The debt has been sold on ‘as a whole’ numerous times – currently with Cabot – and I requested the CCA a few weeks ago but have yet to hear back. How will this work for me given part of the total debt is overdraft?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know – see what you get back!
Jay says
Hi there, I had multiple debts and requested CCA’s last year, the majority have not produced anything, I have 3 questions
1 Should I reply to any of the correspondence, they continue writing regularly encouraging me to contact them
2 one of the debt collection agency rings me everyday sometimes twice a day, on the landline and leaves messages, this feels like harassment what can I do
3 is it worth me offering a final settlement to those who have not provided a CCA to stop the constant letters. I stopped paying them this time last year, for example I get 2 or 3 letters from Cabot each month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the correspondence – does it mention that the debt is unenforceable?
Jay says
Hi a letter from February 2020 said the debt was unenforceable but all subsequent letters don’t
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back to the debt collector by email and say you want to complain that in Fen 2020 they said the debt was unenforceable but they that have continued to write to you to ask you to pay it and not mentioned that the debt is unenforceable.
Say this is in breach of CONC 13. 1.6(4) “The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.”
Ask for an apology and for these letters to either stop or to be changed to acknowledge the debt is unenforceable.
If they refuse, send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.
Jay says
Hi Sara, thanks that’s most helpful, I will write to Cabot, any advise on the other questions please
1 Should I reply to any of the correspondence, they continue writing regularly encouraging me to contact them
2 one of the debt collection agency rings me everyday sometimes twice a day, on the landline and leaves messages, this feels like harassment what can I do
3 is it worth me offering a final settlement to those who have not provided a CCA to stop the constant letters. I stopped paying them this time last year, for example I get 2 or 3 letters from Cabot each month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1. from Cabot? no, just email them the reply I suggested. From other debt collectors – are the letters/emails saying the debt is enforceable? If not, email the same complaint as to Cabot.
(Email is always best here – it is free and you have a record of it being sent, so you can show it to the Financial Ombudsman. Also many firms letter processing has been very poor because of covid-19, so avoid this when an email is possible.)
2. Who is this? I suggest you start keeping a diary for a month of dates and times of calls. Are you in during the day to pick up these calls? If you are, and there is a human at the other end I suggest you do this and you have a stock reply. “This debt is unenforceable because you have not produced the CCA agreement. Until you produce this I will not be making any payments”. You could write this on a piece of paper and have it by the phone. If they want to argue, just say the same thing and put the phone down. This will be costing them money if you actually speak to someone and they have to record the contact and what you said on their system. They will get fed up with this before you do.
3. That’s up to you. A lot of debt collectors play hardball and won’t settle for a low amount. You could try the complaints and stock replies for a few months and see how that goes? Basically they are trying to bully you to pay money you do not have to pay.
Jade says
Hi Sara
Link recently rejected a 50% settlement offer (they wouldn’t take less than 70%) which I couldn’t afford. It’s defaulted, due to drop off my credit file soon and so I asked for the CCA.
I received a letter today saying that the original creditor (Barclays) is unable to comply with my request within the 12 day timeline (I sent the request on the 13th March) and that although the debt is currently unenforceable it is still collectable.
I haven’t paid since jan as all other creditors accepted settlement offers so we cancelled our DMP. I was paying £1 for 2 years prior to making settlement offers. Do I start the payments again for a few months until I am more certain the CCA can’t be found or just leave it as it is?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I wouldn’t bother to start again as you have stopped. Obviously if they find it, you will have to.
Jade says
Thank you, if they contact me in the meantime to ask for payment (without producing the CCA) how should I respond?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
tell them you will restart if they produce the CCA.
Jade says
Thank you so much for your help, this website has been a real lifeline!
Grant says
Be careful.
PRA group faked a CCA in my name – they can clearly generate them themselves – dont give them ANY info that would allow them to “fake” a cca – in other words, if you have moved since the agreement was taken out, the CCA should be at the address you were at at the time of issue – mine isn’t which is how I know its fake
Debi says
Thank you grant I have changed address about three times since the original one
Debi says
Hi Sara this is PRA I have been paying by direct debit for years.
they have been sending me emails now for about 3 months to join their website page and manage my account online but i have never signed up
Sara (Debt Camel) says
perhaps this would be a good time to do this? I mean you can have an argument with them about why you should have to, but isn’t it better to just get them to reply to your CCA request?
Debi says
So they already have my name the address they sent a previous letter to was my mum’s the address that I took out the initial agreement was my exs and I’m not sure about the DOB If I don’t send the details that they requested they won’t send me an answer to my CCA request, shall I resend the request with the details of my mum’s address and my DOB with another cheque.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Why not sign up to their onling thing and contact them and say you are unsure what they are asking you for in order to provide the CCA as they must know you were the debtor in question or they would not be asking you to pay it.
Debi says
Hi Sara I have just gone through the old letters from them that I have on file and the only address that they have for me is my mum’s I never updated them when I moved so do you think it could be that
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you have to ask them. There is simply no point in me guessing!
Daniel says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for your feedback and help here on this site. Can you advise: I have a credit card debt from 2015: the agency who own it can’t locate the CCA but have found and sent me a copy of the original default notice from the lender. They claim this is ‘sufficient’ for them to pursue action. Can they potentially take out a CCJ on this basis, presuming they don’t have the CCA but do have the default notice?
Thanks
Daniel
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It doesn’t sound right. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about what you have been sent and what the creditor is saying.
Debi says
Hi Sara
I have now received a letter from PRA stating that they requested the required information & until then the account is on hold they have also sent an additional letter, generic, stating that if they cannot provide the original agreement they should provide a reconstituted copy. What do you think my next steps should be as they have not stated that the debt is unenforceable as yet.
I have had no correspondence from the Cabot one & the 12 day deadline has passed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so PRA must now be happy you are who you say you are :)
The 12 day deadline doesn’t have much significance. You need to wait a couple of months before you are reasonably sure they will not be able to produce the CCA agreement.
Debi says
OK shall I put my Cabot payment on hold until they reply
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is up to you. Many people think it’s less hassle to carry on paying at this point. But you can stop and say you will resume payments when they produce the CCA agreement.
Debi says
Hi Sara
I’ve just checked all of my statements from the account I was paying PRA and Ive discov ered that they have not taken a payment since Sept 2016 because it was only 12.00 I missed it and never check that account
Steven prosser says
If a debt is on an unsecured loan and the creditor cannot produce the Cca can they still chase you for it or threaten you with a court order?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this a theoretical question about what might happen? Or is it happening to you now?
stevenprosser says
happening now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago did you ask for the CCA?
has the creditor confirmed they cannot produce it and whilst they cannot the debt is unenforceable?
what exactly are they saying?
Rina says
Hello Sara,
Been helped by you in the past so hoping you can advise.
Last year I requested a copy of the CCA from collections agency Idem Servicing for an old HSBC debt and was advised that they couldn’t locate the CCA and deemed the debt was unenforceable. The company left me alone for a while but this year I have started receiving calls and letters requesting settlement of the outstanding amount of £306. None of the calls/letters state that the debt is unenforceable. Today I have received a letter stating that “due to non-payment of your account, we have instructed Westcot Credit Services to collect the outstanding balance. You will be contacted… to come to a mutually acceptable arrangement.” I’d like to know where I now stand.
Do I wait to hear from the new collection agency and then go through the process of requesting a CCA again?
Do I go back to Idem reminding them that they have deemed the debt unenforceable? And that any contact should state that the debt is unenforceable?
Is it likely to be an ongoing issue with the debt being transferred from one debt agency to another?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send idem a complaint by email saying that they acknowledged on dd/mm/yy that they could not produce the CCA agreement and that the debt in unenforceable. Point out that CONC 13. 1.6(4) says:
“The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.”
but their recent messages and letters have not mentioned that the debt is unenforceable.
Ask for an apology and for these letters to either stop or to be changed to acknowledge the debt is unenforceable.
If Westcot contact you, if they say the debt is unenforceable, simply reply that you do not intend to pay it as it is unenforceable.
If Westcot do not say that, tell them that Idem has said they cannot produce the CCA and that the debt is unenforceable and that you will not be paying it. Add that you have complained to Idem on dd/mm/yy that they are in breach of CONC 13. 1.6(4) by asking for payment without mentioning that the debt is unenforceable.
This will all stop. just send parrot-like standard responses.
Rina says
Thank you Sara, much appreciated.
I’ve just looked through my old emails and sent a similar letter to Idem last year. I will include this in my new complaint letter. Is it worth referring to FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you have to give them 8 weeks to reply to your complaint.
John says
I am a collectionstudent advisor and just to give you guys a heads up. The information being given on this platform is correct. If a CCA cannot be produced within 12 working days stop paying until it is. The debts are still owed but you do not have to pay them, they can chase and request as much as they like but they cannot be over forceful which means repeated calls texts and letters. Also debt in itself causes anxiety and stress as well as depression every single company that offers financial services also has Specialist Support Teams to help with people suffering these conditions. It is also true tat the aim of all the companies is to take as much money as possible from the individual. So in order to etc a half decent settlement figure the advice to stop paying for a few months is good advice. Also it takes a few months before they start any court processors after payment is stopped as they want to know why you stopped paying first due to possible changes in ones circumstances. Oh and settlements also work on the principit of the more months missed the better chance of low offer being accepted. After 3 to 6 mths missed payments about £300 for every £1000 but my advice start lower than that and remember they usually won’t give you a figure in the hope you offer more than they will really accept.
HC says
Hi, I left the UK in 2010, divorced ex, returned in 2015. In 2017 I received a letter from Capquest saying that they have taken over a debt from NEXT clothing for which I owe £640. Panic sets in. I contacted my ex, he thinks he paid, but cant remember. I then did the following:
– sent letter to Capquest asking for a CCA
– sent letter to NEXT asking for a SAR
On 08/06/2017 – received letter from Capquest acknowledging my request for a CCA
On 08/06/2017 – received a reply from Next saying they are unable to find an account in my details.
On 09/06/2017 – received a letter from Capquest saying they placed my account on hold for 28 days while waiting for a response from Next. If they did not get a response by 06/07/2017 they would be in touch.
On 14/07/2017 – letter from Capquest saying they were still waiting for Next to respond
29/08/2017 – letter from Capquest saying they were still waiting for Next to respond
Then on 03/2021 received an email from Capquest saying there was a new document on my account
Again on 04/2021 received same email from Capquest saying there was a new document on my account
Then on 29/05/2021 – I received a letter from Capquest stating I can settle my account of £640 for a 50% discounted price of £320. That they would not ask for the remaining £320 and would close my account.
SO……are they just trying their luck?
Do I need to send the Statue Barred Letter? If I send the letter does that mean it would just drag on and they will keep contacting me? I suffer with bad anxiety and this really sets it off.
I have tried so hard to be on the “straight and narrow”, score 999, best score on Experian,
Just had a mortgage approved. What is my best move?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
saying there was a new document on my account
what was this document?
HC says
I assume it was just the letter that followed offering a discount. I have not called them….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh you need to find out. There is a VERY SMALL chance they have found the CCA and that makes a difference to your situation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if it isn’t the CCA agreemen, then just repeat you have asked them to produce the CCA agreement and you will not be making any payments until they do.
HC says
If they do have a CCA, would they not have just sent that? Do I email them? Or do I have to create an account on their website, as that’s an option.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Creating an account sounds like a good choice. I am not saying they are likely to have it, but you need to know the answer!
Steve says
Hi Sara,
First of all I’d just like to thank you for such an informative and helpful website! It has already helped me save a lot of money on my existing debts and I’m closing in on becoming debt free.
I do have a question regarding CCA requests if you could advise please?
I am currently in a DMP with StepChange, and I have requested CCA requests from a number of my creditors within my DMP. All creditors have replied with the usual “we are requesting this information from the original creditor… account will be placed on hold… no payments will be requested”. I approached StepChange to advise this, as I wasn’t sure whether payments to these creditors should be placed on hold within my DMP until they provide the CCA information.
StepChange have replied asking what the purpose was behind requesting these CCA requests (ie. do I dispute the debts) and that they don’t advise stopping payments to my creditors.
I don’t dispute the debts, but I’m hoping that I will be in a better position to negotiate a settlement offer with the creditor should they be unable to provide the CCA information. The debts have been in default for close to 6 years now, so they will drop off my credit file shortly.
I’m somewhat cautious in what I should reply with, or is the above reasoning acceptable?
Many thanks,
Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you don’t stop paying them, it is pointless to ask for the CCAs. You need to have stopped for a few months before you make an offer, or they will just assume they can ignore it and carry on being paid each month.
I suggest waiting a couple of months from the date you asked for the CCAs and then tell StepChange you want those debts removed from your DMP.
Matt says
HI, I owe around £35K on 5 debts, 4 credit cards , 1 overdraft. within 18 months they will all be over 6 years since the original default. I deal with Intrum, PRA, Arvarto Link and Wescot. I have payment arrangements that I put in place myself with the help of National Debtline and every 12 months send an Income and Expenditure to them. I currently pay a very nominal amount to each due to my circumstances. Intrum often send me letters now offering me a 20% offer for full and final settlement. A house I own with my ex that is hopefully about to sell will leave me with some capital, my big question is, Do I ask for CCA’s from them all before making any offer, could I end up not having to pay the debt? Also I am worried that asking for the CCA may awaken them and make them apply for CCJ just before the 6 years is up. I am also wondering that once my credit file is clear, if I do not pay the debt collectors (if they dont have CCA) would this mean the original lender knows I didnt repay,? Sorry for the long mesage ! Matt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do all these debts have a default date marked on the credit records?
which debts have been sold to a debt collector and which are simply being collected by a debt collector on behalf of the original lender?
You can’t ask for a CCA for the overdraft.
Matt says
HI yes there is actually 5 credit cards the dates are 9/2015 10/2016 12/2015 1/2016 12/2015. I realise the overdraft is a seperate issue Matt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and have all the credit cards been sold to a debt collector?
Matt says
I have checked my file, 4/5 are Link/Intrum etc only one is the original lender Santendar, although is collected by Wescot. So on that basis what would you advise regarding a) CCA and not paying at all and b) asking for settlements once my money comes through.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it is pretty unlikely that Santander will not be able to produce the CCA agreement unless the card is very old?
If the creditor can’t produce the CCA they can’t take you to court and you can stop paying them.
“Also I am worried that asking for the CCA may awaken them and make them apply for CCJ just before the 6 years is up.”
the six years isn’t rel;evant here. As you have been making payments these debts will never become statute barred. If you stop paying them 6 months after they have dropped off your credit record, they will still be able to go to court for a CCJ.
Matt says
Okay, thank you. To be clear then ask for the CCA from all, if they don’t have it then I can stop paying without threat of CCJ? If they do have it try and make a deal once I have the capital cleared. Im guessing that the 20% offer from one may hopefully be similar from others. Matt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds like a plan. If you would like to talk this through with a debt adviser, phone National Debtline on 0-808 808 4000. It is their template letter I suggest people use to ask for the CCA.
There is a risk that once they have found the CCA agreement they may be more reluctant to accept a low offer… it is hard to weigh that up against the chance that you won’t have to pay anything of the CCA agreements aren’t found.
For example have Intrum only offered you 20% because they know that can’t find the CCA? You can go round in circles thinking about this sort of thing. There is no clear right answer.
Dan says
Hi Sara,
Can you advise: I was contacted around a year ago by a collections agency re an old credit card debt (at the time, just under 6 years old, now well over that). I sent them a short message stating (I quote word for word):
‘I do not recognise this debt or amount: in the event you believe you have any legitimate claim in my name, please provide evidence of this, specifically in the form of a CCA agreement for the above-mentioned account.’
I received no reply thus forgot about it (presuming they didn’t have it). Now – a year later – I have received an email from them with the CCA attached (this appears to be genuine and correct). I replied saying this is a statute-barred debt which defaulted nearly 7 years ago. They informed me that it isn’t, as I ‘acknowledged the debt in writing in my previous communication’, referring me to the above email.
The quoted short message above is the only communication I ever sent them in writing, and this is the full text of the message (bar ‘hello’ at the beginning and my name at the end). I don’t see how this could possibly be construed as an acknowledgement of a debt. Am I right? i.e. are they trying it on, or is there something I’ve missed/am not aware of here?
Many thanks
Dan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply quoting what you said before and pointing out that this did not acknowledge the debt, so the debt is statute barred
Debi says
Hi Sara,
After corresponding with you previously I have now received a letter from Cabot stating that the debt is unenforceable I have stopped paying that one but will make a very small settlement offer in a couple of months, but I have received a letter from PRA with my a copy of my CCA and a statement I haven’t made a payment on that one since 2016 because it was bought by PRA from Westcott but they never took the 12 per month I was paying wot do you think I should do next.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
SO you think the PRA CCA looks OK? It has your right address details etc?
Debi says
Hi Sara,
It has my name address and sig but no terms of agreement no payment details and you can hardly read the wording. It seems very basic.
As far as I can see it is just a bad photo copy of an acceptance agreement the back page is totally blank no details of how much I was paying no terms no interest
Sara (Debt Camel) says
read the How can you tell if it is right? section in the article above
Debi says
Hi Sara,
I’m going around in circles in regards to the “CCA” from PRA regarding a credit card 2003,that was sent to me. I have tried to get it checked but the one person that came back to me says that it is genuine because it has a signature although it does t have any terms or conditions , the fact is I want to offer a settlement but Im nervous that they will not accept it and take me to court I wish now that I hadn’t asked for the CCA because in 10 months it would be statue barred, never mind, I owe 7,675 but I don’t know where to start on a offer if I carry on paying the £12 per month that was agreed upon in 2009 I won’t have paid it up for many years do I state that in a letter. my head feels like it is going to explode. Please help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who have you talked to about the CCA?
Not many debts go statute barred these days – the chances are PRA would have conteacted you with a few months to go… so that isn’t something to fret about.
Debi says
I was contacted by someone on MSE, legal beagles didn’t comment . I haven’t made a payment since 2016& I just want to get rid of it now. My ex husband has agreed to give me some money for it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
read https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/full-final/ about making an offer. You need to make it clear the money is coming from a friend only if the offer is accepted.
Reena says
Hello Sara,
Requesting your advice on a complaint that is currently with FOS regarding NewDay and Capquest (both firms refusing to accept responsibility so FOS is trying to resolve). The complaint is in 2 part:
1: The refusal of whichever firm should be responsible to add a default date to the debt from 2009
2: The failure to produce a CCA.
I’ve recently received a letter from FOS who have decided that whilst the original debt was with NewDay, because the debt is now being managed by Capquest, they are responsible for applying the default and intend to follow this up. In their response, they’ve instructed NewDay to pay me compensation for the ongoing mishandling of the complaint, however, with regards to the CCA, FOS has found that because NewDay are not obliged to keep records any longer than 6 years, they cannot instruct them to produce it.
I wanted to check, just because more than 6 years has passed and the can’t produce the paperwork, shouldn’t the debt be deemed unenforceable on this basis? Or does it need to be defaulted first? Because I’m in between the two companies, I’m not sure who should be liable to produce the CCA (if one still exists)? I’m not sure the investigator has had a situation like this before so just wanted your advice to form my response to the investigator.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so what have FOS said about whether a default should be added?
You are not asking Newday to produce the CCA agreement – you should be asking the current creditor, Capquest to produce it.
Reena says
Thanks Sara,
Based on my discussions with the FOS investigator, the agree that the default should be applied, it’s just who is responsible for applying it. I first complained to NCO who are managing the debt, they referred me to Caquest who owns the debt who referred me to NewDay who originally owned the debt. I complained to all without success and eventually referred it to FOS.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was the debt sold?
Dan says
Hi Sara,
I’m interested in your comment that ‘not many debts go statute barred these days’ – surely if the company don’t have the CCA, therefore I don’t pay them because the debt is unenforceable, then the debt will automatically go statute barred after 6 years without payment or acknowledgement?
As it seems that the company not being able to produce the CCA is quite common, why would it be true that not many debts go statute barred?
Thanks for your help and advice on these pages!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good questions.
I meant that if people do not ask for the CCA, the debt collector will usually make contact before the 6 years is up and go for a CCJ if no payment arrangement is set up.
Very few people ask for a CCA.
Dan says
Thanks Sara. So if the debt collector doesn’t have the CCA, BUT the customer never asks for it, they can still obtain a CCJ without it? i.e. they don’t have to actually produce the CCA to get awarded the CCJ at a hearing, but once it has been requested, they are barred from applying for a CCJ until they have produced it?
What is to stop a company from applying for a CCJ despite not having the CCA in this case, and simply denying that the customer ever requested it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if the debt collector doesn’t have the CCA, BUT the customer never asks for it, they can still obtain a CCJ without it?
yes
they don’t have to actually produce the CCA to get awarded the CCJ at a hearing, but once it has been requested, they are barred from applying for a CCJ until they have produced it?
Yes
What is to stop a company from applying for a CCJ despite not having the CCA in this case, and simply denying that the customer ever requested it?
You have the details of when you asked for the CCA, you sent the letter recorded delivery, they have cashed the £1 cheque you sent, you asked them later why they hadn’t responded to your letter… this isn’t a problem in practice.
Dan says
Hi Sara,
Thanks – in my case I have asked them in an email to provide the CCA, they avoided mention of this in their reply. I therefore called them and after repeated conversations they told me on the phone (repeatedly) that they were unable to locate the CCA. I emailed them again saying ‘further to our phone call in which you informed me you cannot locate the CCA as requested, I understand this is a legal requirement should you wish to pursue any claim, and until/unless this is received, no consideration of payment will be entertained’. They didn’t reply to this email.
I haven’t send them a cheque for GBP 1, nor was one ever asked for: I don’t have written confirmation from them that they don’t have the CCA, hence my question / concern.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You may be fine… but the fact they have not told you in writing that the debt is unenforceable is worrying.
But really I suggest you read the article above and do exactly what it says to do in How to ask for your CCA agreement.
Dan says
Thanks Sara.
Problem is I don’t live in the UK (I left 5 years ago and now reside abroad) so not having a UK bank account, supplying a cheque for GBP 1 is impossible – nor can I buy a postal order etc. The creditor is aware I reside abroad and communicates with me by email.
Dan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well if you intend to stay abroad you may decide you don’t care what happens to this debt?
You could send them a formal complaint asking why they have not responded to your previous email?
Have you told them your address abroad?
Dan says
They have my address abroad, Sara, yes, but the local postal service here is so unreliable that I can’t be sure I would ever receive anything they sent by mail: certainly it could take weeks to arrive. I’ve also informed them of this, and told them to use email for communications, or at the very least to copy anything they send by mail to email also.
I may return to the UK at some time in the future so would prefer to avoid a CCJ.
Zak says
Dear Sara
Many thanks for all your time and advice here. I have a question: I don’t understand why one would potentially NOT ask for the CCA – i.e. what possible disadvantage is there to requesting this? Given that, as I understand the thread here, if you formally request it and they can’t produce it, you no longer have to pay a creditor, then why shouldn’t everyone ask this in every instance? After all, even if they reply by sending you the CCA, you’re surely no worse off than you were before?
Thanks for your advice.
Zak
Sara (Debt Camel) says
CCA agreements aren’t relevant for all debts – only for loans, credit cards, catalogues, HP – there is no point in asking for a CCA for an overdraft or a broadband debt or money you owe a builder. And if there is a CCJ, then the lender doesn’t have to even look for it.
If they cannot produce the CCA agreement, this does not mean the debt is removed from your credit record. So if it is still showing with no default, then stopping paying means you will get a default which will be there for 6 years.
If you think the debt is coming up to be statute barred, then you don’t want to ask for a CCA as that will acknowledge the debt.
If you have a LOT of debts, including some where a CCA isn’t relevant, and just getting rid of a few won’t make much difference, then you may just be wasting time when you should be looking at insolvency.
If the debt is recent and with the original lender still (possibly being passed to a debt collector) then there is almost no point in asking for the CCA so why pay for recorded delivery post, enclose cheques for £1 and generally waste your time doing something that isn’t going to work?
Zak says
Thanks Sara – all very clear and helpful. Points about debts for which CCAs aren’t relevant, defaults, and very recent debts, are well taken.
Can I ask, though, whether asking for a CCA would automatically ‘acknowledge’ a debt? Surely if you wrote to a lender saying ‘I don’t recognise/acknowledge this debt, if you believe it’s valid then please provide the original CCA for this alleged debt in my name in order to prove this’ this doesn’t acknowledge the debt?
Zak
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That will be fine if it is a debt you genuinely don’t recognise and have just received a letter about. Not so well if you have been paying them… and why take the risk if you were paying them but haven’t heard from them for a few years?
David says
I have 2 loans outstanding with RBS which defaulted in 2012. Total amount owing is around £26k. I set up an agreement with them and have been paying £30 a month since 2013. They just send me notices every 6 months.
In 2019 I received a letter from a company called ARC to say they were taking over collecting the debt. I did nothing and have simply continued to pay the money direct to RBS. ARC phone my mobile virtually every day with a garbled
recorded message, but I just ignore them as RBS have never informed me officially that I should deal with ARC. What would you advise? I guess there is no point in asking ARC for the cca agreements as I don’t think they have actually bought the debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are these your only problem debts?
David says
No. I have 5 credit cards that I took out around 2000.
3 are with Cabot, 1 with PRA, and a Marks &Spencer card that Westcot now appear to be collecting on behalf of Cabot. I have been making token payments since they all defaulted in 2012. None of these debts show on my credit file.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is there a reason you can only make token payments to all these debts – are you out of work or unwell or retired?
are you buying or renting?
It seems well worth asking for the CCA agreements for all the old credit cards.
David says
I had to borrow a lot of money from family and friends to pay off my mortgage as I was being threatened with repossession. I did also have some equity so was able to take out equity release for some of it. I have prioritised paying family and friends back and have almost repaid them. Once this is done, I am looking to retire as I am approaching 67 years of age and my job is now too physically demanding. I wii look for some part time hours somewhere, but cannot rely on this. I will be able to afford to live if I could just get rid of the old credit cards. I currently pay around £70 a month on top of the £30 I pay to RBS for the loans. The situation with RBS is my real concern.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so between clearing debts to friends and retiring a low is changing in your finances. Once you are are in a stable situation that won’t change any more, you can look at revising the payment arrangement with RBS.
James says
Hi Sara,
Great advice as always, I’ve recently received contact from PRA for a handful of accounts they’ve taken from my original creditor.
Interestingly, they’ve said the following to me for my Overdraft account –
“Currently this account is classified as unenforceable, which means we are not able to take legal action to recover the balance. The debt is still legally owed and we will continue to contact you & report to the CRAs (where appropriate).It is possible for your account to become enforceable in future, if we receive the appropriate paperwork from the original creditor – we will make you aware if this becomes the case.”
2 questions please:
The account in reference is an Overdraft – I don’t know where I stand with this debt based on the debt being classified as unenforceable ?
Just in case this was a typo from them as I have a number of Credit card and loan debts with them too, if the statement related to one of these accounts instead I’m guessing it would be in my interest to simply ask for the CCA’s for these accounts?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you been making payments to any of these debts?
Do you have other problem debts as well?
James says
Thanks for the response,
Yes I’ve been making payments to these debts and I have other problem debts with other debt agencies with most defaults scheduled to drop off my record within 8 months
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so if PRA say a debt is unenforceable, you don’t have to make any payments to it.
If you make arrangements with PRA to repay other debts, you should make it clear you do not want the money to be divided between all of your debts but only yht enforceable ones.
Asking for the CCA agreement for the other debts sounds sensible so you know where you stand.
James says
Thanks again,
The unenforceable debt stays on my credit file until February next year – is it best to continue making payments (I am only making token payments) so that my credit report doesn’t show “missed payments” until it drops off my record?
looking to apply for a mortgage in the next 2 years you see and will have 2 defaults still hovering but wouldn’t want the report to show missed payments
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is the unenforceable debt showing as defaulted? what is the default date?
You do know that you need to settle ALL the debts, even the ones not on your credit record (unless they are unenforceable) before a mortgage application? A lender will see the payments you are making to debts not on your credit record and is VERY likely to reject any mortgage application.
James says
Yes the default date is 15/02/2016
Yes I understand and looking to try my luck and offer settlement figures on all unenforceable debts and settle enforceable debts prior to this too
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if there is a default date, then every month a default is recorded, whether you pay it or not. It won’t switch to missed payments if you stop paying.
No need to offer money to the unenforceable debts – once they are off your credit record no one can tell they are there if you arent paying them. Keep your money for the ones that have to be paid!