The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) gives you the right to be sent a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of your account for most loans, credit cards, catalogues, store cards and Hire Purchase agreements.
CCA agreements are important! If a creditor can’t find it then:
- you can’t get a CCJ for the debt; and
- you may decide to stop paying the debt.
But the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to:
- debts where there already is a CCJ;
- overdrafts,
- many household bills or tax debts;
- pre 2008 loans for more than £25,000;
- mortgages.
Sometimes asking for a CCA agreement is a good idea, but not always.
It shouldn’t normally be your first thought if you are having trouble paying a debt to the lender.
Asking for the CCA normally only works if your debt has been sold to a debt purchaser – unless the debt is very old.
Contents
How to ask for your CCA agreement
There is a template letter to ask for your credit agreement in this National Debtline factsheet. That factsheet also has a lot of information about CCA agreements and if you have any problems with one, talk to National Debtline.
This is not the same as templates asking for a copy of your personal information or making a Subject Access Request. If you want to find out if the debt is enforceable, use the specific CCA agreement wording.
Some points to be careful about:
- ask the current creditor for the CCA agreement, not the original creditor;
- you have to send a cheque or a postal order for £1;
- send the letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it and the postage receipt.
Also read the rest of this article first! You need to know what you will do if the lender sends you the agreement and what if the lender doesn’t.
What happens if they don’t send the CCA agreement?
If you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
If the creditor can’t easily find the CCA agreement they may send you an acknowledgement of your request. Something like the following is typical:
we acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information but as we have to request the details from the original lender we anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request.
A 40 day period is often mentioned but doesn’t have any legal standing.
It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.
I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them.
“Legal but not enforceable”
The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.
The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.
When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment. Here is what I suggested to a reader who was getting letters that left off this important fact: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”
Here are some more implications of the debt being legal but not enforceable:
- if you claim a PPI refund, this may be set off against the balance you still owe.
- the debt can still be sold to another debt collector. Make sure you keep all the CCA agreement letters or emails so you can just tell the new creditor you asked for the CCA agreement on dd/mm/yy and you won’t be paying anything to the debt until it is produced.
- you may be able to leave the debt out of an application for a Debt Relief Order so it won’t count towards the maximum debt limit. Talk to your DRO adviser about this.
- See below for the effect on your credit record.
“So I can just stop paying?”
If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.
But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months.
If the debt is in a DMP you will have to tell the DMP firm to stop paying it. Dent them the letter from the creditor saying they can’t locate the agreement.
You may find the idea of not paying scary. If you do, talk to National Debtline about this debt and the rest of your financial situation. It does help, being able to talk to a friendly expert!
I would allow the debt collector two or three months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found it in the first few months the chances of it turning up later are very low.
“The creditor hasn’t said it is unenforceable”
Occasionally a creditor will tell you they cant produce it but you are still legally liable for the debt which is true, but irrelevant – if they cannot produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court.
Sometimes the creditor goes into a lot of detail about how you have been paying so the debt isn’t statute barred. Also true but again irrelevant. You weren’t suggesting the debt was statute barred.
In this sort of situation, tell the creditor that you are not disputing whether you are liable for the debt or whether it is statute barred, but you would like the creditor to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have produced the CCA.
If the creditor persists with this, make a complaint and then send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Here is the story of a case involving an old HSBC debt, where HSBC had to pay compensation for not admitting the debt was unenforceable.
“What about my credit record?”
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? Check all three credit reference agencies to make sure.
If it isn’t on there, then it will never reappear, whether you pay it in full, in part or just stop paying.
A debt marked as defaulted will drop off 6 years after the default date:
- it will not drop off sooner because the CCA cannot be found;
- the balance will not normally be set to zero because the CCA cannot be found.
When the debt does not have a default date, if you stop paying now, a default will be added and it will then drop off in 6 years. Not good news! Read What should the default date be? and ask the original creditor to add a default date back years ago.
A default will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. And you shouldn’t want that to happen – it would mean the record would stay on your file for even if you stop paying.
The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it.
“Should I offer a low settlement amount?”
Some people decide to offer a low settlement amount. I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t need to do this! Not paying them anything is a perfectly good response in most cases! It is VERY VERY rare for a debt to turn up later.
A lot of creditors simply reject the low offer, even though you think it is sensible. They know that if they refuse you may decide to give them more. You cannot make a debt collector accept this low offer or complain they are being unfair if they don’t.
If you really want to make a settlement offer, stop paying them for a few months and then make the offer. That shows they can choose between your low offer and nothing.
The only time when you should try to get the debt settled is if it will still be showing on your credit record in a year or two when you want to apply for a mortgage. Then getting the debt marked as satisfied will help your mortgage chance a lot. But if the debt is no longer on your credit record or is dropping off soon, there is no need to do this.
What if they do send the CCA agreement?
How can you tell if it is right?
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
- your name and address when the account was opened;
- the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
- the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
- any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
It doesn’t have to have your signature on it. Indeed if you opened the account online you may well have signed it “digitally” and there is no document with your physical signature – this is perfectly legal.
If you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct, you can ask National Debtline about it or you could post about it on the Legal Beagles forum.
This may sound complicated but usually either the creditor admits they can’t find it or what they send you is fine.
What should you do when the CCA agreement is found?
This depends on why you were asking for the CCA agreement.
If the creditor has started a court case (you have been sent a Claim Form) then you may have hoped that the CCA agreement could not be found. But now you have it, that is not a possible defence so you need to think if you have another defence. Talk to National Debtline about your options.
If you were planning on making settlement offers to some debts and were hoping the lack of a CCA agreement could get this one settled very cheaply, that has been ruled out and you need to proceed with a more substantial offer.
If you are fed up with having to pay this old debt for many more years, look at your alternatives. If you just stop paying, you may get taken to court – especially as the creditor now has the CCA agreement ready to hand! If you have more luck with some other debts turning out to be unenforceable, can you now pay more to this one? Or is it time to look at insolvency or other options?
When should you ask for the CCA agreement – and when shouldn’t you?
A lot depends on your exact debts, who the original creditor was, who the debt collector is, and what your other options are for tackling them. So there isn’t a simple checklist here.
How old is the account and has it been sold?
The older an account is, the less likely it is that a CCA agreement will be found. It’s the age of the account that matters, not how old the debt problem is. You may have only defaulted on a catalogue account a couple of years old, but if it was opened in 2010 that’s well worth a try!
For a debt that is still with the original creditor, I wouldn’t bother asking for the CCA agreement unless the debt was VERY old or you are getting letters from solicitors about court action.
If a debt has been sold once it is less likely the current creditor can produce the CCA agreement. And this gets harder the more times the debt is sold on.
Court action and CCJs
If the creditor is seriously threatening court action, always ask for the CCA agreement. It is worth a try!
But when you already have a CCJ for a debt, it is too late to ask for the CCA agreement as the creditor doesn’t have to send it. If you have just found out about the CCJ you need to look at your options for “setting it aside“, not send a request for the CCA agreement.
Contacts about a very old debt you have heard nothing about for years?
If you haven’t been paying a debt for years and you aren’t being hassled by a creditor, you need a good reason to ask for the CCA agreement. It may be better to wait and see if you are contacted and then ask for the CCA.
But when you are contacted about a very old debt, asking for the CCA agreement is a very good idea. you should think first if the debt is statute barred, Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template you can send the creditor saying the debt is statute barred. This is simpler than asking for the CCA agreement.
But if the creditor comes back with a reason why it isn’t statute barred, then your next step should be to ask for the CCA agreement.
Hoping to settle debts with a windfall
If you have a windfall – an inheritance say – and you have a lot of debt in a DMP for several years so most of it is with debt collectors, asking for CCA agreements before you make offers is sensible. You don’t need to pay them anything if they cant produce the CCA.
Thinking about bankruptcy, a DRO or an IVA
Where insolvency (DRO, IVA or bankruptcy) looks necessary, it can be a waste of time asking for CCA agreements, unless not paying those debts would make the rest manageable.
Contacted about a debt which not yours
If a debt collector says you owe money but you don’t recognise the debt, you should send them a Prove It! letter saying you dispute the debt. Here the CCA is only part of the picture. You may get sent a copy of the CCA in answer to this – if the name and address on the agreement are yours and you did live at that property at that point, it is good evidence.
But keep focussed on the fact that what matters is proving who the borrower is.
Here is a case “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment” where a debt collector admitted the debt was unenforceable as the CCA couldn’t be found but wrongly still asked for payment.
Summary
In summary, asking for the CCA agreement is an uncertain process that can take months. If you have a lot of debts, make sure you are looking at the bigger picture, as well as thinking about the individual debts.
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
When to ask for a debt write off
Sally says
Basically I have two credit cards debt with around 9k each :( one of them sold to a debt collector and recived a letter with date of agreement on but i have asked for cca also I have checked Experian but there is no trace of credit company even defualt which i have served with I know that credit company reports to Experian and my credit account is still active with 10k credit!! Is it not strange!?
Second one is about to default and it was more than ten years ago when its opened with lloydstsb but they split in two banks do you think it is wise to ask them for cca now or should i wait to be sold to a debt collecter?
Please advise. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The first one – have you defaulted on it? how long ago? Have you looked on your other credit reports, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this.
The second one – wait until it has been sold.
Sally says
Thanks for reply yes default was three months ago. But they did not report to Experian since account was opened about 5 years ago no trace whatsoever! They also offer 10k with 0% until paid for transfer money to bank account! should I try it out? No I havent checked the other credit reports yet… Thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They also offer 10k with 0% until paid for transfer money to bank account!
who is offering this?
Sally says
Its virgin and I know its strange but I could still access my online account and 10k credit available when I click on transfer money it gives me about 9k to transfer to bank with 0% until paid not sure if its a glitch or else!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think in your situation it would be mad to take this offer. As I said, talk to StepChange about your debt options.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you are having problems paying these debts I suggest you talk to StepChange. Asking for CCA agreements is almost very rarely a good option for debts you have only recently had problems with.
Sally says
Thans so much for your advice … Im so messed up and cant think even cant move or cant sit just walking!, too many things happening cant think about myself only my very young family . I think universe set a path for me which I cant change or avoid. its very dark!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are likely to feel a huge sense of relief if you talk to StepChange. It’s easy for ideas to go round and round in your head until it’s hard to see the overall picture, that’s why a good debt adviser can really help.
Gemma says
Hi Sarah,
I am following up to my previous post regarding PRA Group. I submitted the CCA request to which they returned my £1 fee aand advised that they would investigate my account. I then received a further letter from them enclosing an illegible document that had mine and my ex partners signature on advising that this is what they had found and they currently deemed the debt unenforceable but would continue to investigate. I have since received two phone calls from them chasing the debt where I have reminded them of their letter stating the debt was unenforceable. On the second call I received I was put on hold where I was then advised that they now have documents that they can provide. I have now received a letter from them advising that they enclose a copy of my statement, application and credit agreement as requested. They have further advised that my account will be put on hold for two weeks where they will then contact me again by call or letter to discuss the matter further. The letter does not state that they now deem the debt enforceable.
Continued on next message……
Gemma says
Enclosed with the letter are 3 statements from MBNA from 2012 which is around the time the account defaulted. There is a copy of an application form which I assume was completed online as there is no handwriting on it, apart from a signature on the top left corner of the document that is neither mine or my ex partners, I can confirm that my details on it are correct though. They have also enclosed a bad photo copy of a signature form that has mine and my ex partners signature on (most of the document is illegible though) and they have also enclosed a CCA Terms and Conditions which is just one sheet of paper, again a bad photocopy which is mostly illegible. There is a reference at the bottom right of these terms which looks like it could be F091 11/03, it’s too distorted to be exact. Could this be a reference to the date that the terms were produced? I am asking as the signature form was signed July 2003 which could possible mean that the terms do not apply? I am really unsure if what they have provided constitutes a CCA request and this now means that the debt is deemed enforceable?
Many thanks
Gemma
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above looks at this problem in the section How can you tell if it is right?
Andy says
Hi Sara
A big thankyou for your advice here re asking for CCA’s for old credit card debt. I took your advice in June and requested CCA’s from Morecroft re Arrow Global Guernsey for my MBNA Virgin card and Wescot re Cabot Financial Europe for my RBS Mint card, both from pre 2006. I heard back from them within a week stating that my request had been referred on to their clients (Arrow and Cabot). As yet, no CCA’s have been produced and it is approaching 3 months from my original request. I intend to stop payment through my Debt Management Plan (PayPlan) next month if nothing is produced by then. My question is this: Should I write to PayPlan informing them of my reasons for non payment and expect them to relay my reasons to Morecroft and Wescot or should I write to all three organisations with my reasons? An idea of the wording of this email would be extremely useful.
Many thanks and keep up the good work!
Andy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would write to all three. Just say the CCA agreement has not been produced and so the debt is currently unenforceable in court so you will not be paying. Add that if later they produce it, you will resume payments.
Andy says
Many thanks for the advice.
Steven Ward says
Andy,
I’m in a similar position after reading Sara’s advice. The one other piece of advice I have picked up is to advise PayPlan not to issue any further written communication to your creditors. As Sara said, write to your creditors yourself, but also add that you will not be issuing any further written communication.
The reason is explained in Sara’s section regarding when debts become statute-barred. If there is no activity on an account for a period of 6 years, the account becomes statute barred, meaning even if they did find the paperwork after that time they still can’t pursue it. However, if you (or anyone acting on your behalf – ie PayPlan) make a payment or send a letter, the 6-year period starts again from the beginning.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I do not suggest this. The chance of it going 6 more years and then the paperwork turning up is about zero. It is better to communicate clearly with the creditor in writing.
Barry says
Hi Sarah
I have two debts being run by Link financial and the CCA’s they have supplied dont match up. One (an old egg card) is just generic and does not have my name or address and the other (ex barclaycard) has the correct front sheet, but terms and conditions supplied are from the year before i started the account (accout start 2008 – T&C’s state 2007 so not a true copy – or is it?). I have brought it to their attention, but got a load of excuses saying its correct and to give evidence if i thought it wasn’t. So i sent them a copy of the FCA CONC13.1 suggesting that the accounts are unenforceable . The letter i got back was quite aggressive saying how i have made my own conclusions, then mixing this issue with a previous one i had with them (default date) and said the only thing they will discuss is the repayment.
Assuming im either right and i have hit a nerve or i’m completely wrong not sure which?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above looks at who to talk to if you don’t think what has been sent is correct.
How large are these debts?
Do you have other problem debts, eg old debts you are not making payments to or more recent debts with payment arrangements?
Barry says
Hi Sara,
I have one other debt (CCA returned – ex tesco) so I have been paying this. These debts are at (ex egg – £2000 ex barclays £4000). I have managed to pay other debts off, 2 of which because the CCA did not exist or wasn’t complete but the dca’s didnt really put up a battle (so accepted a low settlement).
I would be horrified if it went to court and dont want to push it over the edge if i’m wrong as im so close to being debt free (from where i started).
What power does the ombudsman have if i referred it to them ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Often the Ombudsman won’t given an opinion on whether the debt is enforceable in court.
Barry says
I will try legal beagles see what they say, I have tried national debt line all they said is that it has to be a true copy, but if im picking at the finer details i would need professional help (solicitor).
are the DCA’s able to edit there copy of the CCA to put my name and address on it and re-send it back to me? (hasn’t happened but would seem logical)
Shez says
Hi Sara, I previously received many phone calls and letters from Link chasing debt payments even thought they were unenforceable and the letters I received did not state that. You advised me to write to them stating all correspondence should state the debt was unenforceable…etc.
Their response was that they are unable to comply with my request as they have not breached any guidelines. So any suggestions on what I should do next? Your advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you received more letters since about the debt that do not mention it is unaffordable?
Shez says
not as yet…I only received their response a few days ago…
but my husband has received letters regarding setting up an online account, calling them etc and no mention of the unenforceable debt which is his name. we sent out our individual letters at the same time, requesting the same as above post.
they are also threatening to resume telephone calls to him if he does not make contact……here is an extract of what he wrote to them yesterday:
“…. I am a pensioner and currently unwell, so it is best to always contact me by letter. Please do not reinstate any telephone calls as they would be unanswered and it will place undue stress on me, further affecting my health.
Please note that on 23/08/2019 you told me that the debt was unenforceable and as such I will not be paying it. I appreciate that you would need to contact me from time to time and would like you to do this by letter and if the debt does become enforceable in the future, I would like you to also communicate this by letter.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you keep a log of letters and any phone calls for a couple of months and then go back to complain again, and at that point go to the Ombudsman if they won’t agree to stop this.
Shez says
thanks very much Sara
I will do this
Laura says
Hi Sara, I have recently made a complaint to Tesco regarding a credit card that I took out in 2014. I believe the card should never have been given to me (only took out a very large loan with Tesco two months prior, also maxed another £9k card out that I took out 3 months prior). Tesco have said they don’t believe they can investigate my complaint because the card was taken out over 6 years ago. Is this correct? Is it worth trying with them again or taking to the ombudsman? Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send it to the Ombudsman. And tell FOS you have only recently found out that a credit card lender should have checked that credit is affordable, – say when and how you found this out. So that you have complained within 3 years of finding out you have a cause for complaint.
Do you have your bank statements for 2014? It’s a good idea to get hold of these now, as they can be very helpful in a FOS case. You may be able to win without them but they can help.
Sarah says
Hello,
Please any advice, I requested a CCA from Hoist finance regarding a old HSBC account, which i believe was a loan. They have given me the run around, firstly saying they hadn’t got one, so when i followed up they said it was an overdraft so didn’t have to provide one. This i think is totally wrong. So I queried it, they then sent me a printed copy of HSBC’s terms and conditions saying they are sending the information i requested. This was not a CCA. So queried again. They then said it was an overdraft again. I called HSBC to see if i could get some information from them and they said it was a personal loan, but that is all they could say as it was so long ago they no longer have records, and said they wouldn’t get involved in sending any information to Hoist. So i emailed Hoist again with this information and basically we keep going around in circles.
This has been going on for more than a year now
Any help on how to proceed with them would be most appreaciated. I am paying them minimal through a DMP
Thanks
Sarah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was this debt sold by HSBC to hoist or was there some other debt collector in the middle of this chain?
Did you ever have an overdraft with HSBC? A loan?
viva says
credit card debt Westcot take from DMP , CCA not find, nearly one year , I stop the payment, I go for F & F settlement, but this original creditor
take back . when I am negotiate with Westcot. Santander play with credit report , always damage credit score they can charge high interest.
give advice please.
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but you have posted a lot on many different pages. You have mortgage arrears and big unsecured debt problems. I have suggested before that you should go to your local Citizens Advice – another option is to talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. I know English isn’t your first language but you need help and advice on your whole financial situation, your credit record is not your main problem.
Blooming says
Hi Sara, You have always been a great help, I hope you can help me once again. I got a call from DCA solicitor’s to say that their client had found the CCA but due to staff working from home, will have to send by email. I have given them my email and what i have received is a 2 page document which is my application for the card. They have previously sent me pages and pages of back statements dating back to year 2000 when I took out the MBNA credit card. they have now given me 14 days to contact them to arrange payments but is the application form the accepted CCA agreement that I should be expecting? Please advise me on what i should do now. The request has been made over a year ago but they have not said either way whether the CCA is available or not till now and it is just a copy of my application that has now been sent. Thank you.
Blooming
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read the How can you tell if it is right? section in the article above. If you think they have sent you your application and not a copy of the CCA agreement, replying saying this.
Blooming says
Thank you for this I have gone over the article so many times and I have checked the document sent and it is clearly a copy of my application for credit and nothing else. Is there a time limit where I can just safely ignore them if they don’t produce the agreement. The request was made in June 2019, which is way beyond the 12 working days or even a few months after to respond. What I am trying to say is, do I write again requesting for the same agreement and leave it at that. I have not been paying anything towards the debts for about 4 years now so I can’t say I won’t be making payment when I am already not making payment. I hope I am making some sense.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is no point in just asking again. You can ignore or reply that what they have sent is nit the CCA agreement that you asked for and yoh will not resume paying them until they produce the CCA.
If you decide to ignore, do NOT ignore a Letter Before Action/Claim about a debt. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ For what one looks like.
Blooming says
Hi Sara
I am really sorry for all this bother but having written back to tell them that what they sent is not the agreement, the response i got was ‘please be advised that the document provided is the Agreement and Application amalgamated into one document’. How is this possible? I am confused now. How can I respond to this. I will appreciate any help in this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk to National Debtline or post on here: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act
Blooming says
Thank you I will do that
Suf says
A DCA has got hold of my partner over a debt she thinks is statute barred (taken in 2014). We have sent a templated letter disputing the debt and asked them to provide the CCA. All contact has been via email and no letters have been received (my partner no longer lives in the property from back then and lives with me and is on the electoral role). The DCA is requesting she provide her name, DOB, address and contact number via email to pass their GDPR for them to disclose the CCA to her. Should we provide them these details?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They are not going to send the CCA unless she can prove her identity.
If she refuses, the risk is that the debt collector goes for a CCJ Using her old address so she can’t defend it. It may later be linked to her current credit record and she will then have the considerably harder and more expensive job of trying to get the CCJ set aside – at that point the creditor has no obligation to produce the CCA.
But if she supplies the details and they have the CCA, she will then get pestered to pay.
She could talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether thus debt is actually statute barred.
Frannie says
Hi
I have been advised by the PRA Group that my debt is unenforceable but still payable as they can’t locate the credit agreement. They are going to contact me on 9 October to see what I am going to do. Am I ok to advise that I am not going to pay anymore until such time (if ever) they locate the agreement?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes.
In all future communications from them that ask you to pay, they should mention that the debt is not enforceable.
Is the debt showing on your credit record?
Frannie says
Yes the debt is on my credit file marked as defaulted I was making payments towards the debt but stopped 2 months ago when I asked for the credit agreement (they suspended payment while they were locating the agreement which they can’t find)
Kelly says
I’ve received a CCJ claim form for an overdraft. I’ve request a CCA that they are unable to supply, but it’s uncertain if it would apply to my debt.
The debt was a student overdraft. For some reason, even though I explained to Lloyds on several occasions that I was no longer a student, and tried to get them to reduce the overdraft, I had an overdraft of £3k over 20 years or so. They even advised I got a credit card instead to clear it.
Anyhow, fast forward and several years ago they wanted to increase the interest from around £10-15 per month to £60-70 per month. I contacted them, explained this was affordable. It was agreed over the phone that the account would be closed, and I made an agreement to pay £50 per month to clear the debt.
I continued making payments into the account. I was told I would lose visibility of the account from online banking as it was closed, but payments would go off my debt. My exh was also making CSA payments into the account – small amounts.
Around 6 months later I had a letter to say the debt had been sold. Somewhat stupidly, I ignored this, and stopped payments shortly after. I hadn’t missed payments up until this point.
I now need to file my defence. I’d really appreciate any help at all with what to write!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. And/or post on this forum: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues
Victoria says
Hi!
I hope someone could give me some guidance.
I requested a CCA agreement on the 13th of May 2020, and have received a reply on the 8th of October. As the debt is an overdraft they have not provided one, which I understand they do not need to do. However do I have a leg to stand on that it took 5 months for them to get back to me? This debt is from 2008 however they say I made a payment of £20 within the last 8 years which is why it is not statue barred.
I will ask for proof of this if need be, but wanted to check if I have any recourse with the delay in getting back to me?
Thank you in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No recourse for the delay, sorry.
HQ247 says
Hi Sara, I have referred an account to FSO as CCA Link sent me was illegible and there was o do missing from it. Do I still refrain from making payments? Just want to be sure!
Also Link have sent me a final dispute letter on a debt which I didn’t dispute. I asked for the CCA in March which had not been forthcoming. The did reply, in April, that the debt was unenforceable as they could not supply the CCA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
there was o do missing from it
I guess that was a typo for something?
what does this final dispute letter say?
HQ247 says
Hi Sara, yes it was a typo…meant to he info missing. Final response says their decision is that they have not breached any of guidelines. If unhappy contact CSA or refer to FSO within 6 months of date of letter. If they have not heard from me within 8 weeks they will close file.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talking to the CSA is pretty pointless, don’t waste your time.
FOS don’t normally give a decision on whether a debt is enforceable.
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and/or post on the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues about what you have been sent and what you should do.
Colin Harris says
Hi, I have a DMP with stepchange. I owe £7500 amongst this is £2400 to barclaycard and £400 to natwest. I requested a copy of CCA’s in April they told me in May they cannot be found I have sone offered PRA group who own the debt 5% of the balances to settle them they have said NO they want 100% of the money. My defaults for these have just dropped off and I do not want more. Should I stop paying as they have rejected the 5% and cannot find the CCAs? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is the point of asking for the CCAs!
Colin Harris says
So what do I do stop paying? I dont want more defaults or ccjs
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Explain to StepChange that the CCA can’t be produced, the debt is unenforceable and you would like it removed from your DMP.
Colin Harris says
Brilliant I am so happy
Alex says
I recently asked my creditors for CCA. Thanks to your advise Sarah. It’s been 6 days now and still waiting.
One of the creditor sent me a letter Stating that because of COVID-19 they cannot provide me hard copy they can only provide me an electric version but I need to send them my email and all other details like my date of birth and address. What shall I do?
Shall I insist for a hard copy?
Can they get away with that excuse if I will stop payment? Would they have rights to take me to court?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why not just give them the details?
Aleksandra says
1. I understand that it’s ok for debtors to provide me an electronic version of CCA.
2. I should just provide them with necessary details.
Kt says
I have asked for a copy of my Tesco credit card cca. It has arrived but i am a little confused about the dates on it and its making me wonder whether it is in fact genuine. It shows it was an online application signed and dated by me 03/12/2008 however on the front page there is a smaller box stating – received for and on behalf of the issuer 16/03/2009.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above has a section on who to talk to if you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct.
Douglas says
Hi, I sent a request to Link Financial in May. So far I haven’t heard anything from them but they did cash the £1 cheque. I had a recent statement from them showing the cheque has actually been paid into my account. What should I do next?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask them why they havent replied to your CCA request.
Are you making any payments to them at the moment?
Douglas says
Yes they’re part of my DMP.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well then you need to chase them And say you will be stopping the DMP payment if they don’t respond.
Barry says
In my experience so far Link are the worst, The CCA’s they gave me clearly have problems but they wont admit they are wrong and just fob me off with rubbish excuses.
Laura says
Hi Sara,
I am hoping you can help me with something regarding Aqua credit cards. In March 2013 I was given a card by Aqua despite numerous defaults and arrears (I have made a complaint re irresponsible lending). In March 2017 the debt was passed to Arrow global who passed it to Reston’s solicitors. I stupidly paid over £1700 after receiving court documents from Reston’s threatening legal action and a possible CCJ. I now know after reading your blog that a CCJ cannot be given where the claimant doesn’t have a CCA. If Reston or Arrow don’t have this, is there a possibility that I could reclaim the money for them on the basis that the court case would have been thrown out? Many thanks in advance :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is there a possibility that I could reclaim the money for them on the basis that the court case would have been thrown out? No, sorry, that won’t be possible. It is too late now.
And there is now no way you can even find out if they could have prode=uced the CCA agreement as they don’t have to even look for it if you ask for it when a debt has been settled.
If you win your affordability complaint of course the money that you have paid will be taken account of in the refund.
Laura says
Thank you for such a quick response Sara, hopefully I’ll get somewhere with my complaint to Aqua. Many thanks
Steven Ward says
Good Afternoon Sara,
Am I correct in thinking that following a CCA request that is not fulfilled, any further written correspondence from the creditor should acknowledge that the debt is unenforceable?
I’ve previously had letters from Cabot for 5 different accounts to advise they cannot locate the paperwork & acknowledge that the debts are unenforceable. I’ve now had letters for 2 of the accounts saying that I’ve missed payments & to contact them about paying the debt. They do not state anywhere that the debts are unenforceable.
Also, Link Financial replied to my CCA request on 03 September & said to allow up to 6 weeks for a reply. To date it has not been sent. On 05 November I received a statement dated 27 September listing payments made between March & September 2020. It states “The current arears represents the outstanding balance as you did not maintain payments in accordance with the terms of the original agreement so the full amount became due”. It asks me to contact them to discuss my account & also states “This notice is given in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974”. However it does not acknowledge anywhere that the debt is currently unenforceable.
I don’t want to reply in writing to either of them as I don’t want to ‘reset the clock’ on the statute-barred time frame. Would you advise me to call & speak to them or ignore the letters?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes and No.
The relevant FCA rule is 13.1.6 (4) (https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html) which says:
The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.
From that, I suggest that Cabot’s requests to contact them about payments are NOT complying with this. But the Link statement sounds to me like a standard CCA statement which doesn’t have to mention the unenforceablity.
(If you are wondering why there is this exception, it is because the content of CCA Notices is set out and cannot be varied.)
If you want to complain about the letters you are getting, I suggest this has to be in writing. Asking for the CCA agreement may have already reset the statute barred clock…
Steven Ward says
Thank you Sara,
I get what you mean about my CCA request resetting the statute-barred clock, but that was in July, so don’t want to put it back further by writing again if you get what I mean.
I will call them both, advise that I’m recording the call & explain the situation on the phone, maybe hint to Cabot that I may complain due to the content of their letter.
Steve.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you are making your life very complicated. If you have restarted the clock, then statute barring is effectively irrelevant.
John H says
Hi, I have been paying £20 a month for years and years on an old credit card debt that will never get paid off, it’s that old that it’s no longer on my credit file and I have an excellent score again, is this something I could try to finally get rid of this? Would it have any impact on my score at all if I went down this road? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This debt will never reappear on your credit record. And asking for a CCA agreement is a VERY good idea with such an old debt.
John H says
Thanks for the reply, So is this debt unenforceable if they can’t produce a credit agreement? Sorry for the questions I’m just a little nervous about rocking the boat so to speak
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, a lender has to be able to produce a true copy of the CCA agreement for a credit card for it to be enforceable in court.
John H says
Thank you, I’ll let you know how it goes
John Harris says
Hi Sara, after asking for my CCA the company has just sent me a copy of my statement that was with Robinson way and is now with idem servicing, it states “this is a statement given to you in compliance with the consumer credit act 1974” am I right in thinking this isn’t the CCA? Can you advise on my next step? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the How can you tell if it is right? section in the article above.
Laura says
Thank you Sara I’ll forward to the ombudsman as you’ve advised :)
john horwell says
Hi Sara
I’m hoping you can offer a little advice regarding the CCA. I have recently received a letter of claim for a catalogue debt that was sold to a debt company, however I am a little confused on areas regarding the CCA. The letter of claim states that I do have the right to ask for a copy of the written agreement but then goes on to state the following…
‘The Letter of Claim explains that your liability is for money outstanding under a credit facility arising from a written agreement you entered into and that a copy of that written agreement can be requested from the creditor. However, you are not now entitled to see a copy of any actual agreement you signed i.e. the agreement with your signature on it. As an example, under legislation, a creditor, when required to provide a copy of an agreement, is entitled to provide a reconstituted copy – in other words a template of the original. So, if you do request a copy of any agreement please do not expect to see a document which contains your signature.’
So am I right in thinking they would get a successful CCJ?
The debt dates from an account opened in Jan 2017, last payment date December 2017, and assigned to the debt management company in October 2018
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The question is, can they produce a true copy of the original? Many debt collectors who have bought catalogue debts can’t… but some can.
You need help on how to reply to the claim form. This is too late to just ask for the CCA, you have to submit a defence within the short timecale allowed AND also ask for the CCA agreement.
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and/or post on Legal Beagles forum: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues.
David says
Hi there,
Following my fathers death in the spring, I uncovered evidence of a whole heap of credit card debt (not to mention the equity release mortgage etc, etc), – seven different accounts totalling >40k – now I notified the companies involved (although these had each been bought from original lenders) and asked for details as executor to the estate.
These were then passed on to Philips and cohen who have issued various vague letter for payment of the debt (and a torrent of voicemails) – I, therefore, sent CCA requests for these (mainly to check these companies had the right to money from any estate and to get some understanding of how my dad got into this situation in the first place). I’ve had bits and pieces back on a few of these but nothing I’d class as making it ‘enforcable’, as I’ve read (generic t’s and c’s for one, no form of agreement document), and the letters didn’t state either way on enforceability (only directions on where to send the money!). There was also no acknowledgement for a couple (although they all went in the same envelope and the £1 cheques have been cashed!) but is the CCA request that even applicable in this situation seeing as it’s not technically my debt?
Not sure my next steps should be so any guidance would be much appreciated!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a lot of money… I cannot give you advice as to your duties as the executor, but you may be able to take legal advice and claim the cost of this from the estate. I will email you details of a firm of solicitors.
Grant says
I am being chased by PRA group for an alleged debt.
I have asked for a copy of the CCA – but all I have received is a generic document that is not specific to me.
Reading CONC it says “The copy of the executed agreement should be a ‘true copy’ of the original. However, as confirmed in the case of Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB), in this context the term ‘true copy’ does not necessarily mean a carbon, photocopy, microfiche copy or other exact copy of the signed agreement. There is no obligation to provide a copy which includes a copy of the signature.” – So does this generic form prove it’s my debt? I don’t see how it does, but it seems to comply with CONC.
What’s your view please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about what you have been sent and whether it contains the correct details for your debt.
Grant says
Sara,
I have just re-read everything very carefully.
They admit the CCA they have sent me is reconstituted, however the address on it is NOT the correct address – i.e. the address I had when I took out the agreement.
Given they can probably look up my old address, and clearly this “re-constituted agreement” could be re-constituted again, does it matter that the address on the agreement is not the address that was on the original agreement?
I am desperately looking for loopholes, as I need to try and reduce my debt and if I can do so with a couple of large ones, it would make the rest much more manageable.
What I do not want to do is alert them to the fact that the address is wrong as they will simply re-constitute the letter again with the old address on it – so how can I say to them this is unenforceable without them just re-making the agreement?
Thanks again for all your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry but this isn’t an area that I comment on. Please talk to National Debtline or post on the Legal Beagles forum: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/money-debt/consumer-credit-act
Grant says
Thank you.
It strikes me, that if the Debt Collector can “reconstitute” the agreement, it means any Debt Collector can re-create the original CCA – it doesn’t prove you signed or agreed it.
I can’t therefore see how any Collector would “not be able to find it” unless they were scrupulously honest……..
I will speak to National Debtline and see if they can advise, you are doing a great job with this website – well done, you are helping so many people.
Not so Richie Rich says
Hi Sara,
Firstly, thank you for your fantastic website and knowledge, It’s helped me enormously over the last few months.
Sorry I’ve missed a similar question further up the feed. I requested the CCA from the PRA group around 3 months ago for a £7k debt, they returned a a ‘fact sheet’ “CCA Consumer Factsheet v4 last updated 11/04/2017” which suggests to me that they’re often asked to provide the CCA information- This factsheet mentions “if we have not provided you with this info, PRA can still: Send you a default notice if you miss any payments.”
I read this as PRA can send you a letter saying that you’ve defaulted but can’t record it against your credit record. Have I interpreted this correctly?
Very best wishes
Richard
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has the debt already been marked as defaulted? If so how many years ago?
Dickie Richards says
Hi Sara,
I thought I’d share my experience of complaining that Link were not stating ‘unenforceable’ in their letters asking me to set up payments. I requested the cca which they’ve not been able to provide. They gave me a final reply saying that they haven’t breached any rules so I complained to the FOS and have received the outcome today. Here’s what they have said:
“My role here is to see if it’s fair and reasonable for Link Financial to contact you to try and collect the debt and not include wording in their letters to say the debt isn’t enforceable – or that they’ve not acted unreasonably.
I also can’t ask Link Financial to change how it operates or consider breaches of the regulations as this is only something the regulator can do who are the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA).
I considered CONC 7.14 and I also looked at all of CONC 7 and I can’t see anything that makes me think Link Financial are obliged to include in every letter they send out to you that the debt is unenforceable.
I can’t conclude it’s unreasonable for Link Financial not to include this wording on each letter it sends out to you.
Conclusion
I think that Link Financial have done enough to let you know that they understand the debt isn’t enforceable in court and won’t be unless the appropriate paperwork is found.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this decision from a FOS adjudicator/investigator or from the second “ombudsman” level?
Dickie Richards says
It’s from a FOS Investigator.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then go back and say that the rules relating to this are CONC 13 not CONC 7 https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/?view=chapter:
CONC 13. 1.6(4) The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.
Ask them to reconsider and if they don’t change their mind, say you would like the complaint to be sent to an ombudsman.
Dickie Richards says
I’ll do that now and will post an update when I get one – thank you :-)
Dickie Richards says
Hi Sara,
I wrote back to FOS, as you advised, with the CONC 13 info – They have upheld my complaint :-)
Here’s some of what they said:
“So taking everything into consideration and reviewing the additional comments Mr xxx sent, I do think this makes me change my view of the complaint. And whilst I accept that Link Financial weren’t alerted to the correct CONC by Mr xxx as the experts I think it would have been clear what was being asked so this could have been checked.
However, I do think that Mr xxx has been aware that the debt wasn’t enforceable since the letter he got in November 2019 – so I think that Link Financial should issue an apology to Mr xxx to resolve the complaint.”
Clare says
My enquiry relates to a an account with Aqua from 2013, it defaulted in 2018 and was sold to Cabot Financial. Who confirmed last month that they couldn’t produce the CCA, so the debt was not enforceable.
I have been saving and managed to agree reduced settlements with some of my other creditors and was intending to settle these accounts next week.
My intention had been to offer a very low offer to Cabot at the beginning of the year, just for it to go away.
I woke up this morning to notifications from Credit Karma and Clear Score to advise that Cabot have added a new account to my credit file, this is the account number for the debt with Aqua, so my concern is does this mean that they have now found the CCA?
My concern is that this means that they have managed to locate the CCA meaning that the debt is now enforceable and that this might prompt them to go for a CCJ. Do you think this is likely?
I’m scared this is the case and that if I use the funds I have to settle other debts then I wouldn’t be able to pay the CCJ if the above scenario was likely. Because of my job a CCJ would be a disaster for me.
Any thoughts you may have would be welcome!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
CCAs don’t tend to be found. Debt collectors often don’t report to CCA straight away after they buy a debt, I have no idea why not, but it’s not unusual for a debt to pop up later.
Matt says
Hi Sara
Fantastic website and a big thank you for all the time you take to help everybody. Could I ask you about CCAs?
I have had a DMP with PayPlan that I started in early 2018 after my business went bankrupt, and it is due to run until 2037 (not a typo!), although I do have a possibility where I could make a F&F offer early next year to clear up to maybe 50% of the total debt. Monthly repayments are currently manageable and I am up to date but like many it is proving a bit difficult during COVID times.
There are 9 accounts in my DMP, all were opened between 2007-2016, and all are credit cards aside from 1 loan and 1 overdraft. Of those that show on my credit reports (2 of the credit cards and the loan do not appear on any of my credit reports) the dates of default are all during 2018.
6 of the accounts are with debt agencies (I cannot tell if they are debt agencies or purchasers? Cabot, Hilton-Baird, Intrum & PRA). The other 3 are still with the original lender.
I was just hoping to see whether you thought it would be worthwhile requesting for CCAs on these debts? I’m not sure if it makes any difference but I now live in Portugal and I have no ties to the UK. I have no intention of moving back to the UK, so a bad UK credit score doesn’t affect me at all.
Thanks in advance for your advice!
Matt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
like many it is proving a bit difficult during COVID times
If your income has fallen or your expenses have gone up since the Payplan monthly payment was set up, contact Payplan and ask for this to be reduced. Even if it isn’t by a lot, it will help you now and will convey the impression to your creditors that you are struggling a bit, which may make them more likely to accept partial settlement offers next year.
Hilton Baird I don’t know – what sort of debt has been passed or sold to them?
The other three names are all likely to have bought the debt.
Do you own any property in the UK? Where would the money for the settlement offer come from?
Matt says
Thanks so much for the response Sara!
Hilton Baird took over a loan that I had through an organisation called IWOCA. It wasn’t actually even a personal loan, but a business loan my company had taken out and I was a personal guarantor. Good to hear the others are likely to have bought the debt.
I don’t own any property in the UK (but I do in Portugal)
The money from a settlement would be a loan from a family member.
Matt says
Actually, apologies, after a little bit of digging Hilton-Baird don’t actually appear to be a debt collection agency but the parent company of the lender. I guess I can strike them off the list to ask for a CCA
John H says
Hi sara, I’ve had a letter saying that idem are unable to supply a copy of the credit agreement at this time and they have contacted the original lender for it, it also states that the debt cannot be enforced, as recommended I’m going to leave it a couple of months before I stop paying, but the letter also states they can register a default on my credit report, is this a bluff or can they actually do this? Thanks for the advice so far
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is the debt not already defaulted? who was the original lender and when did you default?
John H says
Hi sara, the original debt was years ago it’s an old virgin credit card that no longer even shows on my credit file, it was passed to Robinson way in 2012 so I presume it was defaulted by Virgin way back then? I can’t find anything on my credit report about it and my experian report is showing as excellent again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then the debt is not going to reappear on your credit record.
John H says
Thank you Sara
John H says
Hi Sara, just an update for everybody really, I’ve had a letter today from Idem Servicing stating that they have asked the original creditor for the cca and they have responded that they can’t find it and therefor the debt is unenforceable, they do state that they will keep contacting me about the debt and won’t release me from the agreement, after paying these vultures £20 a month since 2012 I’ve today cancelled the standing order, I may offer 5% further down the line to try and get rid of them for good but would like to thank you for all the advice, if you have an old debt and are thinking about asking for the cca what do you have to lose?
Zak says
Sara, under the DPA2018, if a debt collection agency has no credit card agreement, can a person request that the debt collection agency erase all data they have on them? Is that possible? Is it too unreasonable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. If a debt is unenforceable simply because the creditor cannot produce the CCA agreement, it can still be reported to credit reference agencies.
Gary says
I have received confirmation from a debt collection agency that they do not have a copy of my CCA and they also state that they acknowledge the debt is not enforceable. However, they say if I stop paying they will pass my details on to a third party collection agency, I do not understand the point to this unless it is a threat or harrassment or is it simply posturing. Surely if it is not enforceable then passing my details and debt on is only with a view to harrassing me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is the debt showing on your credit record? if it is, is there a default date on it?
Gary says
Hi Sarah – yes the debt is on my credit record as a default in 2017 and I have since been paying the collection agency monthly and never missed a payment. My intention is not to stop paying but to negotiate a better settlement. What does this then mean?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you want to negotiate a better settlement, i suggest you stop paying for a few months first. Otherwise they have no incentive to take your offer seriously.
There is no way to make a creditor take a low settlement offer, but you can try if you want.
It probably is, as you say, posturing. Do you really care if you get some texts and emails about this? They aren’t likely to be so stupid as to pay someone to come round to your house, and if they did a debt collector has no right of entry at all. Just tell them to go away.
db says
Thank you for all of the advice above. I have two MBNA debts – both have been sold to LINK and I requested the original CCA from both. Both were returned, the first page has the detail you mention although some of the print is not legibel. The second page show the T&C’s 1,2 and 3 and is all unreadable due to the copy quality. They have then sent a copy of T&C’s 4 through to 19 n a different format that looks like it is a stock copy rather than the original (very clear). Is this acceptable? Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above says what to do if you are not sure what you have been sent is valid.
Anon says
Hi Sara, thanks for the wonderful resource. I have a unsecured loan debt with natwest for about 14K. It defaulted in September 2008. The debt has been sold a few times with the latest being Moorcroft. In July of this year I checked my credit score with Experian and I noticed that my debt was still showing up there even if it passed the six year date. I complained and Natwest amended my experian record and it dropped off.
I also formally requested for a copy of my credit ageement under Section 77-79 of the CCA.
I have noticed that the debt is not on Experian but its now showing up with Equifax and Transunion. The debt ‘reappears’ at these credit reference agencies around August 2020 when Moorcroft cleared my account and Natwest took it back. I have raised a complaint with Natwest about this but am unsure about what to do next. Additonally Natwest have confirmed on the phone that they cant find the CCA (but havent confirmed in writing)
In my mind what should happen is that the debt and missing payments has been misreported to Equifax and Transunion as the debt orginally defaulted in Sept 2008. They should also confirm in writing that the debt is enforcable as they cant produce the CCA and I can choose not to pay the debt and it shouldnt adversely affect my credit score moving forward. What do you advise?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think Moorcroft never owned this debt they were just collecting on behalf of NatWest.
If NatWest corrected your Experian report so it no longer showed, then they must have added a default. If it ever reappears, they need to do this again.
I suggest you email NatWest and say you would like to confirm your understanding from the phone call in November (or whenever) that they cannot produce the CCA agreement for the debt and do it is unenforceable in court.
Ian says
I originally had 13 debtors in total for about £31000, after setting up a DMP and making low payments, I sent off cca requests to most, some of whom found the agreement and some did not, those that didn’t accepted low repayment offers of around 10%
My question is, with all that was going on I have forgotten if I sent a cca to all of my debtors. I think I missed 3 of them, PRA, Lantern and moorcroft, do you think it would matter if I sent them requests again, they may never have received a cca request originally but may well have already sent it to me ? I don’t want to antagonise them by asking for something again but I can’t be sure, it would have been a couple of years ago if I even did request the cca from them. Thankyou for your help!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you still paying these three?
Ian says
I have arrangements in place for each for £1 per month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I would send them the CCA requests again. If they say they have already replied, ask them for a copy of that.
Liam Attrill says
I’ve had two companies reply to me unable to produce the original CCA. One I don’t have a plan with but they contact me quite regularly (Capquest) and another where I have a payment plan set up of £5pm (BW Legal).
What are the next steps? Can I just stop paying BW Legal or, should I let them know? The same with Capquest. Can I write to them to stop contacting me on a regular basis as before they said they will keep ringing etc?
Thanks as always.
Weatherman says
Hi Liam
How long has it been since you asked the companies for the CCA? If it’s been a couple of months then yes, you can stop paying. It’s not *impossible* they will dig the CCA up later, but very unlikely (if they do, you should contact National Debtline about your options). You don’t need to contact BW Legal, although if you do and tell them why you’re stopping your payments, it might make them less likely to keep trying to get money out of you.
You can write to Capquest and ask them to stop contacting you – although there’s no guarantee they will. ‘Unenforceable’ just means they can’t take you to court, not that they can’t try to persuade you to cough up. They will, however, be wasting their time…
Liam Attrill says
Hi Weatherman,
I sent the requests a few weeks back and they came back with they don’t have, and wouldn’t be able to, obtain the original copy of the
CCA due to the age of the debt.
So are they allowed to keep ringing you on a consistent basis and even ring you on your work number?
Many thanks,
Liam
Weatherman says
Hi Liam
If they’ve told you “No, we’re not got them and we’re not going to be able to find them” then there’s no need to wait to stop your payments.
They’re allowed to keep trying to contact you, yep. The debt still exists. They shouldn’t, however, harass you about it, particularly if you’ve told them that you won’t be paying, and that it’s because the debt is unenforceable. I don’t know precisely when this line would be crossed, but there’s some info on how you can complain here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/calls-from-creditors/
As for your work number, they shouldn’t use this if they have another way to try to contact you & you’ve asked them to use that alternative method. This article has more info, and what you can do: https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-collector-lender-phone-at-work/
If they’re being at all sensible, they’ll soon realise that you’re not going to pay, and that they can’t do anything about it – it’s a waste of their staff’s time and their money to keep trying!
Liam Attrill says
Thanks very much.
Pezza says
I have an £11,000 credit card debt, in my name only, originally with Barclaycard, defaulted in Dec 2014 (due to the collapse of our business). I consequently set up a payment plan of £1 per month. The debt was passed to PRA in September 2015 and the same payment plan of £1 per month has been in place with them ever since.
I contacted PRA this week and offered them £500 (a gift from my Mother) to settle the account once and for all. They responded with a settlement of £2,974.50. I am not in a position to afford this figure and told them so. They said in order for them to negotiate lower they would need to see our last 3 months of Bank Statements, our Mortgage Statement and evidence of my health issues.. I told them over the phone this wouldn’t be a problem. However, having spoken to my husband, who is not the debtor, he is not comfortable in sending our joint bank statements which would show his financial details too. Do you think it possible I could therefore send my last 3 months of wage slips instead?
Otherwise, I’m thinking at this point.. should I ignore their request and simply ask for the CCA first? I’ve only just come across your site and realised that perhaps I could negotiate a lower figure anyway if they cannot provide my CCA. Alternatively, should I go ahead and send them the Wage Slips, Mortgage Statement and Health documents as well as requesting the CCA at the same time? Your advice would be much appreciated, thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I ask if this is your only problem debt?
Is it showing on your credit record, if so, what is the default date on that record 9whcih may not be when you think you defaulted).
Also is £1 a month all you can afford?
Do you have health issues that are not likely to improve?
Would your bank statements show you have surplus money? (I am not suggesting that this should be offered to PRA, just trying to see more what the problem is.)
Did you tell PRA the £500 was coming from your mother?
Gazzla says
I followed DC advice and requested the CCA from PRA before agreeing any settlement. They were unable to provide the CCA so now I am in hold out mode showing them they either get £200 of the £3000 owed or nothing. They just called this morning, agreed the loan was unenforceable and asked me to settle for £500 to which I have still said no. They said they will call back in 90 days and try and re-negotiate to which I said ‘fill yer boots’
Pezza says
Thanks for that Gazzla. Did PRA send you a letter to say the debt was unenforceable or did they just call you up to tell you? How long after you sent the request did they contact you? Thanks.
Gazzla says
I have 4 debts that I requested the CCA for – 2 of them wrote to me stating they did not have the CCA and I ceased payments… I recieved a call asking to settle and I have to say they were extremely polite and desperate to keep me on side. The other 2 still have not come back to me after 4 months but keep sending holding letters. I suspect a the amount is much more (from a previous marriage) that they do not have the CCA but are holding off telling me so they can keep getting paid. That said, having waited 4 months for the CCA I have now reduced their payment from £100 per month each to £5 (in case they find the CCA)
In summary, they wrote to me stating the debt was unenforceable.
I requested the CCAs at the beginning of November and they advised me at around xmas time they could not find it
JSR says
I have written to link financial and asked for a copy of my credit agreement , their reply was” following a further review of the account in question ,I can confirm that a final charging order (FCO) has been obtained in 2009 and therefore the account is considered enforceable .
As such we are not required to comply with your more recent request .
Can you help me on my next stage , or do 8 have to carry on paying. ? No credit agreement has been sent to me .
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were you aware there was a CCJ and a charging order?
JSR says
It’s the first I know about it , but they have not sent me any details at all . I had until recently 3 CCJ s which have all dropped off now .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you checked with the land registry to see if there is a charge over your property?
JSR says
No I haven’t , can you advise me on how to do this , and if there is how do I get it removed ? Just been doing a bit of research and it says after 12 years it can be removed , if it was charged in 2009 then this year it should be removable ? This debt was due to dodgy work on my home and carried a ten year guarantee, after 2 years everything went wrong and the company refused to rectify it so I stopped paying under a dispute and it just escalated to where we are now , I’ve been paying link financial for many years but this debt does not reduce , I cannot get it paid off .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do?_ga=2.232352479.1529684339.1612625299-2023174863.1612625299
If there is a charge it there until it is paid off. These do not expire. And the creditor is no longer under an obligation to produce the CCA for the debt.
JSR says
Thank you for your help , it looks like this one will have to be paid unfortunately.
I have heard back from another two where I sent CCA requests and because they are old mobile phone contracts ran up by my children many years ago ( contract in my name , but phones for the kids) it looks like they are payable also because it was a service contract and not a credit contract .
I’m still hoping that the other 4 I’ve sent off for will be a result as deadline expired now and I haven’t heard back from them .
Thanks for you help Sara
LW says
I would like to say how helpful your website is.
I was wondering if you could provide me with some advice.
I have two debts that have been passed onto debt collectors BPO Collections and Moorcroft. They have sent many letters requesting payment etc. so late last year I agreed a payment plan with them both, however now after coming across your website, I am wondering if I could go down the CCA route and effectively stop paying the debts? I would like them removed from my credit file so eventually offering a low settlement. Can I still request a CCA even though I have paid, effectively confirming that it is my debt?
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debts were these originally? Have the debt collectors bought the debt or are they collecting on behalf of the original lender? How long ago did you default and is there a default date on your credit record?
LW says
Thanks for your speedy reply, much appreciated.
One was a credit card and the other was a loan. They have bought the debt, it currently says Cabot on my credit file for both of them, so I am unsure whether BPO and Moorcroft are collecting on behalf of Cabot or whether they now own the debt. How do I find this out? One says a notice of default has been served, August 2018 and the other says the same but February 2019. Thanks again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what did their letters say?
You can ask for a CCA but these are quite recent debts so it is less likely to work than with older debts.
Are the payments affordable? Do you have other problem debts or are you behind with bills?
LW says
The letters were generic, just asking for payment. I was thinking that maybe because the debt has been passed there is potential they won’t have the CCA? The payments are affordable and I have no other problem debt. My main issue it being on my credit file, so I was thinking of asking for the CCA and then offering a settlement for removal? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes they may not be able to produce the CCA. I was just saying that you probably shouldn’t regard this as very likely as the defaults are recent.
The letter should make it clear if they own the debt or are collecting on behalf of the creditor. the request for the CCA should go to the creditor. Not the original lender, but the current firm that owns the debt.
JSR says
Hello again , I need help resolving another issue with my CCA request
I have been paying Lowell each month on a Vanquis credit card debt , I sent off the CCA request and had a reply back which does not relate to my request in any way and they have sent a cheque for £1 , which I originally sent them to issue the request . They have worded it to say it’s a compensation cheque because I’m unhappy with their services?
They have asked if I ring or email to further submit my complaint if necessary.
I’m confused .
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Email them to say you would like them to send you a copy of the CCA agreement for the credulous card that you have requested or for them to confirm they don’t have it and the debt is unenforceable.
JSR says
Thank you again
Paul says
Hi, I have a very old NatWest credit card from about 1987. I got into difficulties about 7 years ago and a plan was agreed to make a small token payment per month towards the balance of £7,800. NatWest moved the debt to Cabot Financial a few years back (I presume it was sold) and they also agreed to accept the same £1 payment per month. I have been able to work some overtime the past few months and was in a position to offer them a settlement figure.. which I did. I offered £800 but the minimum they would accept was £1,800. I eventually agreed over the phone to a 3 month payment plan of £600 per month. I made the first payment there and then over the phone last week and I’ve put a standing order in place for March & April. They told me the account will be closed and marked ‘partially settled’ after the April payment has been made. I was fairly satisfied at this outcome but having read the comments on your site since this agreement.. I didn’t know about the CCA route first!
My question is then.. is it too late to approach Cabot again and request the CCA now that a plan to settle is in place? I am thinking I wouldn’t have to make the March & April payments if they cannot produce the CCA. Or is it too late to try that route now? Look fwd to advice thanks.
Weatherman says
Hi Paul
It’s not too late to try that – but you run the risk of winding them up! And it can take a couple of months to produce the CCA, so you wouldn’t know for a while whether you were home free…
The worst case scenario is that they do have the CCA, and then decide to reject any new plan to settle. It’s up to you, but it might be safer just to make the payments (if you can afford that) and get it done with.
Paul says
Yes I thought it might be a bit risky. Maybe best not to rock the boat at this stage and leave things as they are. Thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I agree that asking for the CCA now is a risk. But that account is so VERY old that there is a good chance the CCA agreement can’t be found. No-one can say how good, but… sorry it is a difficult decision for you.
Paul says
Yes I thought it might be a bit risky. It’s a shame but maybe best not to rock the boat at this stage and leave things as they are. Thanks for your help.
LJ says
I sent a CCA request to Moorcroft, who have got one of my TSB Accounts.
They first responded to acknowledge they had the letter, and today have responded to say that:
“In line with our client’s procedure, you are required to visit your local branch at TSB Plc and request a copy of the Consumer Credit Act.”
They have returned the £1.00 postal order that I attached.
I guess this means that TSB still own the account? (It was likely first opened around 2010). Is it right that I have to go back to lender to get this information?
Thanks
LJ says
Ah, sorry Sara – I’ve just realised that this is an overdraft account, which I expect is why. I didn’t realise.
Weatherman says
Hi LJ
If Moorcroft say that TSB are their client then yep, it sounds like they’ve just been contracted by TSB, not that TSB have sold the debt.
If TSB still own the debt, you’d need to request the CCA from them. It’s unfortunately very likely they have it!
LJ says
Thanks Weatherman! Strange how it’s not been sold on after all these years… I think this is my only account that’s with the original lender!
I’ve realised that this account is actually an overdraft anyway – so CCA won’t help. But I’ve just chased my F&F that I made on 8th Jan… still no update… *smh*
Thanks for the help!
JSR says
I recently requested a CCA from MORTIMER CLARKE re MFS portfolio , very old credit card debt .
They have responded to say there client is under no obligation to provide documentation as a CCJ was obtained in 2016. ( incorrect date , I have no CCJ s on my credit report now ) , however they have requested the CCA and will provide them upon receipt , they have also advised that the debt needs addressing (paying every month) and want me to fill in an I and E within 14 days , if no response they will commence enforcement procedures.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so was there a CCJ for this debt? If so, have you been making payments to it?
JSR says
Yes the CCJ has dropped off late last year and I’m still making payments on this account . It’s an old MBNA credit card , funny thing is I recently applied for a new credit card and MBNA have sent me one with a 3.3k credit limit .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then they are correct that they do not have to provide the CCA. And the CCJ is may be enforceable even though it is over 6 years old. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this.
JSR says
I have just checked out this account , I’ve not made payments on the account at all , does this make any difference ? And the fact that MBNA have sent a credit card tells me I’m no longer on system with them? Have I a right to say it’s unenforceable if I don’t receive the CCA ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have I a right to say it’s unenforceable if I don’t receive the CCA ?
No. A CCA agreement is irrelevant to enforceability of a CCJ.
the fact that MBNA have sent a credit card tells me I’m no longer on system with them?
You don’t know that for sure. And anyway it won’t help as the CCA agreement is irrelevant.
I’ve not made payments on the account at all, does this make any difference ?
It may!
If a creditor wants to enforce a CCJ after 6 years, they have to go back to the court to get permission. That is rarely given… but if you have been paying and just stopped, it could be. It is less likely to be given if you have never made a payment. Phone National Debtline for help with this.
JSR says
Thanks again . I have followed the link re limitations act and I will be posting this out on Monday . It’s worth a final try . Do they have a time limit in which to respond to this please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what are you saying to the creditor?
JSR says
I’ve filled in the online template saying basically that the debt is too old to chase , limitations act 1980 section 5 . “An action founded on a simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued .
The CCJ has now dropped off my credit file , I have not made a payment since they put this on my file .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It makes no sense to send that to them – totally pointless. An “action” here is a court case and they have already brought that and won it.
The fact the CCJ is not on your credit record is irrelevant.
The fact you haven’t made a payment could be useful but this is complicated, so talk to National Debtline – that is a much better idea than sending off something which is just going to tell the creditor that you have no idea what you are doing.
LJ says
Hi :) I sent a CCA request to PRA Group on 28th Jan in regard to a Barclaycard debt, balance £3819.25.
I’ve received a letter from them today (also enclosing a letter from Barclaycard) to state that they are ‘currently unable to provide copies of the original agreement’ and therefore are classifying the debt as unenforceable.
I’m currently paying them on a DMP plan through Stepchange, and have been since 2013.
The debt defaulted on 24/04/2015 (should actually have been before this, but I’ve not argued that point yet) – but with this date, it’s due to come off my file in April of this year.
I’d prefer to offer them F&F just to get it off my plate for good, incase CCA springs back up in the future (I know the chance is very slim). However…. before sending them a CCA request, I had made an offer of £969.00 for F&F in Aug 20 (rejected) and then a further negotiated offer of £1750 on 1st Jan 21 (rejected).
I know I did it the wrong way around, but I didn’t know about the CCA process at the time (before finding this site!).
What’s my best course of action now? Go in at a reduced offer of 5%? Tell StepChange to stop paying them for a few months and then pick it back up?
I just thought if I make an offer of 5% now, they are probably gonna reject based on the fact I was offering them £969 & £1750 previously.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you tell StepChange to stop paying them now and then think again about making a low offer in 6 months time.
Leigh Jones says
Thanks Sara, I’ll do that :)
Steven Ward says
Or alternatively after telling Stepchange to stop paying them, write to them using the wording of the letter I sent – it’s posted below in one of my replies to ‘Jane’. Read through the posts below from Jane the replies, hopefully it will give you the confidence to just stop paying, especially if it will be off your file from April. Might be worth making token payments up until the time it drops off so you don’t have missed payments on your file.
LJ says
Hi Steven,
Sorry I’ve only just seen this! Thanks for the advice!
LJ says
Hi Sara. Just in relation to this… On Friday, I received an envelope from PRA and a stack of Barclaycard statements from May 2014 to March 2015. The covering letter just said it was ‘in relation to the documents that I have requested’.
No agreement or anything with it.
I rang PRA today to just test the water, just asked for my balance, and they read the ‘Unenforceable Debt’ script – so figure I’m safe.
Why would they just send statements? Is it to try and scare me that the might find the full agreement? Is this likely do you recon?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No idea. Perhaps they are hoping you think you now have to pay as they have sent the statements. But you weren’t sidupting the balance you were asking for the CCA.
Just read what you are sent next – if it seems to be suggesting you have to pay and doesnt mention the unenforceable, phone them up and ask why.
LJ says
Much appreciated, thank you :)
Jane says
Hi, it’s been a while. I requested CCAs on all 8 of my debts back in January 2019.
Four enforceable and four unenforceable. I turned 55 not long ago and have accessed some of my pension tax free cash to settle some of these debts. Over the last week or so I’ve negotiated and settled the four enforceable debts and im about to end my DMP and stop paying the unenforceable ones.
I’ll be honest, I’m nervous about what might happen as I’ve been paying the DMP for ten years and have enjoyed the quiet. So my concerns are, is there any way these debts can reappear on my credit file? They’ve been gone for a long time. I’m going to write to the DCA’s and tell them I’m stopping the payments and I’m going to ask they only contact me by email or letter, will they ignore this and start relentless phone calls? finally, will they send some one to my home?
my plan is to make some really low full and final offers in a few months and get them out of my life. 3 debts with PRA all ex Barclaycard and one with link ex MBNA opened in the 1980’s.
Weatherman says
Hi Jane
The debts won’t reappear on your credit file. If they were enforceable, the creditor could get a CCJ (which would then appear on your credit file), but without the CCA they’re not.
The creditors should respect your wishes with regard to contact – see here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/calls-from-creditors/
They *might* send someone to your home, but it’s unlikely. That costs them money, and they’re not stupid – they know you’re not going to pay, and that there’s nothing they can do about it! If they do come, ignore them or ask them politely to go away.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have never heard of anyone getting someone coming to their door in this situation.
Steven Ward says
I’m in a similar position. I stopped making payments in August last year to 9 unenforceable accounts. I had been paying my DMP since 2008.
Old debts cannot reappear on your credit file.
DCA’s can still contact you, although it’s extremely unlikely they will send someone to your house knowing that there is nothing they can do to enforce the debts – it’s not worth the cost.
FCA require all written communication requesting payment other than a statement to clearly state that the account is unenforceable. If they don’t, call & advise that their letter is in breach of FCA guidelines. I’ve spoken with some very apologetic people!
I get regular letters saying although the accounts are unenforceable they are still entitled to request payment. They usually offer a discount to settle. I ignore them.
I get calls maybe 6 to 8 weeks apart. I just explain that the debt is unenforceable until they provide the CCA information & until then I won’t be making any payments. Never ‘hold on’ while they ‘check details’ – just tell them you’ve explained the situation & they have your number if they need to call back. I have never had a follow-up call.
Your call if you want to make offers, start very low (<5%). I'm aiming for statute-barred after 6 years of no written communication (see Sara's info on this).
The letters & calls now are very different to those I got before the DMP. Knowing the accounts are unenforceable puts you in control.
Hope that helps.
Jane says
Thank you very much for the excellent advice, I feel very reassured. Three of the debts are with PRA group and one with Link. Are you familiar with either of these? i
Barry Gamble says
Hi, I have had/having similar issues, I found PRA easy to work with and got a really low deal with them to pay a card off (10% of what i owed). Link however are proving a pain, However your accounts sound a lot older than mine so if they have already admitted they are un-enforceable you should have no problem just stopping payment. dont pay more than 10% but try for 5%.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Honestly there is no reason to pay anything. These old agreements don’t just magically appear!
Jane says
Link have never admitted they are unenforceable but they haven’t replied to my CCA request, admitted they’d received my request when I called them to chase it up and said they were waiting to hear back from the original lender. I’ve also emailed them to chase again and no response. This seems to be what they do from reading other comments, just completely ignore you. I’d be extremely surprised if they produce anything as that was my first credit card in about 1989 and was a building society branded version of MBNA. so 31 years old!
I am just going to go for it and not pay them, it was the uncertainty of what they will do that scares me. On top of a pandemic I’m a bit fragile!
Jane says
Just to give an update. I have now ended my DMP with Step change This morning I wrote a letter to Link stating the date of my original CCA request and subsequent contacts. I wrote I would no longer be paying.
As if by magic my phone rang and it was a lady from Link following up the notification from step change that I was no longer dealing with them. I explained I wouldn’t be paying any more and that they’d completely ignored my CCA request and subsequent chasers.
She said on the notes it stated the CCA is not available and Apologised that I hadn’t been notified. With the bit between my teeth I advised that future correspondence should confirm that the debt is unenforceable. I asked that I am only contacted by letter or email and she said she would delete my number.
She has raised a complaint on my behalf for lack of communication about the CCA and was very pleasant.
Let’s see how it goes but it felt good to confront this head on with the facts on my side. 😊
Steven Ward says
Link yes, PRA no, my accounts total just under £42k & are with Link (2), Cabot (5), Hoist Finance (1) & Lowell Finance (1). As Sara says, there’s no reason to pay anything at all. With no route to legal action there is nothing they can do. If they haven’t been able to get hold of the CCA details in this time they never will. In fact I’ve now had confirmation from all of mine that the original lenders do not have the information available. Bear in mind that DCA’s buy the debt low cost / high risk, they will have probably paid in the region of 10% to take over the debt, so they don’t stand to lose much & will have covered their costs from the payments you’ve already made. A £5k debt will have cost them about £500. If you really want to try & settle that’s your choice – PRA & Link will be rubbing their hands in delight at you throwing your cash at them. I’m in a position now where I look forward to getting calls & following up non FCA compliant letters as I know there’s nowhere they have to go with it & will get an apology. I’m not a cocky or smug person, but it gives you a sense of empowerment listening to them squirm when they realise there’s nothing they can do & you can say “have a nice day, thank you, bye bye”.
Jane says
I agree with you. Did you write and let them know you were no longer going to pay? Or did you just stop paying?
Thanks
Steven Ward says
I wrote to them as follows;
“I understand that you are unable to provide the information I requested under Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 & that you are taking steps to retrieve this information. I also acknowledge your request to either continue making payments, or to contact you to make alternative arrangements to pay.
As you are aware you are required to provide the required information within 12 working days. My original request was sent by recorded delivery on 06 August 2020 & would have been received by you by 10 August at the latest.
As you have confirmed that you are not able to provide the required information, the debts are currently unenforceable. Therefore I will be instructing Payplan to stop payments to this account.
Once the information has been received, checked & verified, I will instruct Payplan to reinstate the account to my DMP & to rearrange the relevant monthly payment.
In the meantime, I will not be issuing any further communication in writing regarding this account.”
That was end of August 2020 & I haven’t written, emailed or made any payments since, all communication has been on the phone. After 6 years of no written communication or payments, the accounts will become ‘stature-barred’ (https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/). There is a very outside possibility they might find the CCA within that time, but I’m willing to take that chance.
Barry says
Im in the same boat almost with Link my accounts are not as old (2008 and 2012), I applied for CCA’s, I received what they had (posted on here my self last year) what they have is not a true copy of a CCA, (one has no name and address other has the correct front page but the T&C’s attached were from a year earlier than the account open date. I have not being paying them now for over a year, various arguments on the phone as they have been quite aggressive with me calling me a liar and that I dont know what im talking about.
So I have took my case to the Financial ombudsman and reported them to the FCA. But little they can do, even less so while its with the ombudsman.
Steven Ward says
It’s worth knowing this for if they ever write to you asking for payment;
Because they have failed to comply with your original Credit Agreement request, FCA guidelines, section 13.1.6 item 4 requires that they should make clear to you, that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment. The only exception is if it’s a statement which does not constitute or contain a request for payment. Any communication received that does not include this is in breach of FCA guidelines & could be considered harassment.
My MBNA account was from 2003. I called Link earlier in the week to follow up 2 non-FCA compliant letters they sent me asking for payment & found out that both Barclaycard & MBNA wrote to Link in September last year confirming they did not have the CCA information & could not provide it!!
If you don’t get a reply to your original request within 12 days, the account becomes unenforceable until such time that they provide the information. They are very reluctant to admit it. To start with it’s about having confidence in yourself & knowing you’re right, they do get gradually easier to manage. Link now know where they stand, 2 others have written to me previously to say they’re no longer pursuing the debt & Cabot send me 5 separate standard letters every month saying “it’s unenforceable, but please pay something”.
Dan says
Hi Sara just needing a bit of advice I had an overdraft with Yorkshire bank in 2008 I stopped making payments in 2015 for the last month the debt collecting agency have been messaging and sending letters that there going to take legal action if I don’t repay it not sure what the best option is I’ve checked my credit file and it’s not showing up on there can I request a cca I haven’t spoke to the debt company to acknowledge this debt thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large is the debt?
do you know when it dropped off your credit record?
do you have other problems debts as well?
Dan says
It’s for about £1100 no not sure when it dropped of in a bit of debt also got a loan with them for about £1200 as well and not paid that since about same time but noticed on my credit file that one says up to date even though not paid it thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You cant ask for a CCA for an overdraft, it isn’t relevant.
It can be hard to tell when an overdraft is “statute barred” – too old for a creditor to win a court case about it – but that one is VERY old. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this letter and how you should reply to it.
You should also ask YB to add a default to that loan record back in 2009 so it drops off your credit record, but it may be a good idea to leave that until the overdraft issue has been resolved.
Dan says
Thanks what about a cca for the loan as they are with the same debt company do I acknowledge the loan as I just checked the letters they have sent and the loan is on them thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline about the letter which covers both debts.
A says
Hi Sara
In relation to payday loan companies which, have gone into adminstration and then closed down i.e. wonga / sunny / myjar – there is now no redress for people in relation to fixing credit files. Could somebody claim that these debts are not theirs? Is the onus not on the now non-exisiting company to prove otherwise by producing an agreement? I know the paragraph here paints a picture of true desperation but the issue is that the debts I and I am sure other have had with the payday loan company were “settled” and so are likely to remain on the credit file forever with no means at all of seeking remedy through the usual channels.
This is especially worse now that certain credit reference agencies have taken to moving these loans from the “loans” section of the credit file to their very own “short term loan” section – essentially flashing a neon sign at them.
Personally mine are two years old (settled date) – but still there and likely to be there for the next 5-6 years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you saying there is a payday loan debt which you had settled which is still showing as outstanding with a balance? Which lender?
A says
No they are settled with no balance, but their mere existence is a negative as they are under the “payday loan” section in credit files. This was previously less of a problem, but now they sit in their own area of a credit report it is obvious to everyone what they are :(
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then the loans won’t remain forever, they will drop off 6 years after the settlement date. So in 4 years.
Most lenders, even mortgage lenders, don’t care about old settled payday loans, eg over 2 years old.
Did you make affordabilty claims in the administration to Wonga and Sunny? the time for making these claims ahs now passed. But you can still send in a claim to Myjar. If the claim is upheld the whole loan is likely to be deleted.
A says
Hi Sarah. Thanks for this. I did with Wonga and 1 was upheld, but the others were not. Because I settled them I thought they might remain of there for 10 years? Is it still 6 years even though I paid them off in full?
I didn’t know we could still write to the administrators, I thought they had completely gone now. Thanks :)
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Settled debts remain for 6 years after the settlement date.
The wonga administrators have now liquidated the company and won’t respond to any letters.
if you think your credit record is wrong, you have to write to the CRA and say why and ask them to “suppress” the record as it is wrong but the lender no longer exists to correct it.
Tony says
Hi Sara I have requested my credit agreement from pra group in November 2020 and as of yet not received one I am paying through debt management should I stop paying as it is over three months since I requested it the debt is old Barclay card over 10 yrs ago they stated that they have not yet received anything from barclaycard the original lender??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Three months sounds like they aren’t going to be able to find it.
I suggest you tell your DMP firm to stop paying.
Colin says
Hi, I requested the CCA from PRA group in March 2020. I have had several letters saying the debt is unenforceable due to it not being available. The debt is 7 years old with Barclays. It is for £2500 and I stopped paying 12 months ago. Is the CCA likely to be found at this point? Am I safe to say I’m rid of it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is HIGHLY unlikely it can be found. I think you can assume you are now safe.
I do not recall anyone in this sort of situation then getting a nasty surprise and it turning up.
It is pretty likely that PRA didn’t even ask Barclays for it as the terms Barclays sold them the debt said that Barclays did not have to respond to requests from PRA for the CCA agreement.
Scoobie says
Hi Sara
Many thanks for all your help in the past.
I had an unsecured loan with NRAM and defaulted in 2011, but a default was never applied, I was making reduced payment on a DMP. I wrote to them in Sept 2020 and asked them to apply a default from June 2011, they replied saying they will give me a decision in 8 weeks. but nothing received. Should I go to the ombudsman or should I just send NRAM another letter with a reminder?
Please let me have your advice. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would phone them up and ask why they haven’t responded. You only have 6 months to take a case to the ombudsman so get on this, just in case they did respond and you never got their letter/email.
Scoobie says
Ok, thanks. I will do that on Monday.
But the debt is still on my record, which means that they did not apply a default date as requested.
So can I still complain?
thank you again
G says
Good afternoon Sara,
I wonder if I can trouble you for some advise on what you think I should do in the following situation regarding my debts.
So, I currently have the following debt’s being handled by DCA’s/Creditors and wondering what your thoughts are with requesting the CCA at this point?
Lowell – Debt sold to Lowell and has been updated on credit file to reflect this.
Default Date: 2018 – Last updated on credit file 01/2020 (no update for over 1 year)
Recent contact from Lowell by letter advising account on hold – no action needs to be taken but credit file not updated for over 1 year.
PRA Group – Debt sold to PRA Group and has been updated on credit file to reflect this.
Default Date: 2015 – Last updated on credit file 09/2018
No contact from PRA Group since 2019
Capital One – Original Creditor
Default Date: 2015 – Last updated on credit file 02/2021
No contact from Capital One for years.
ARC Europe DCA – Collecting on behalf of original creditor and recently passed to DCA.
Default Date: 2014 – Last updated on credit file: 11/2020
** No longer shows on credit file **
Last contact from ARC Europe a few weeks ago advising account on hold.
Link Financial – Debt sold to Link Financial and has been updated on credit file to reflect this.
Default Date: 2014 – Last updated on credit file: 08/2020
** No longet shows on credit file **
No contact from Link Financial for years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why are some accounts on hold?
are you making payments to any of these?
do you have other more recent debts that you are paying?
G says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for getting back to me.
The reason the accounts are on hold is that I’ve not been making any payments.
I’ve provided my IE which shows I have no available funds to make any payments after priority bills.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and do you have more recent debt problems or is it just these old ones? Do you have priority debts as well, council tax or rent arrears? utility bills?
Are you renting or buying?
G says
Thanks again for your reply.
I only have these old debts.
All priority bills etc are up to date.
Mortgage still being paid.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then in that case I would be inclined to leave them at the moment if you are not making any payments and you are not being hassled.
There is no advantage in poking a sleeping creditor in this situation.
If they get back in contact and want you to pay, then then you can either send them your Income & expenditure and show that you have no spare income or ask for a CCA at that point.
If they start talking about court actiion then you should definitely ask for the CCA – don’t wait until you have a court claim to defend!
G says
Perfect – Thank you for your reply 😊
Dickie Richards says
Morning Sara,
Just an update to let you know that I have today received an apology from Link following my complaint to the FOS which you advised me to make.
They’ve been unable to provide the cca but did not refer to the debt as unenforceable. They confirm that they will now correctly include the reminder that it’s unenforceable on further correspondence.
In my experience it’s scary dealing with debt as the system is designed to do that. Every letter uses ‘official’ language and is made to sound like you’re in breach of a legal contract and contains a threat if you don’t pay – I think these companies are demanding money with menaces really.
Knowledge is the key and what I have learned from your site and others has made me lose my fear – I’m not scared of these companies anymore, in fact I have no respect for them at all. I’ve started another complaint with FOS against another dca and am pursuing another for all correct info
Thank you for the advice :-)