The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) gives you the right to be sent a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of your account for most loans, credit cards, catalogues, store cards and Hire Purchase agreements.
CCA agreements are important! If a creditor can’t find it then:
- you can’t get a CCJ for the debt; and
- you may decide to stop paying the debt.
But the right to ask for the CCA agreement doesn’t apply to:
- debts where there already is a CCJ;
- overdrafts,
- many household bills or tax debts;
- pre 2008 loans for more than £25,000;
- mortgages.
Sometimes asking for a CCA agreement is a good idea, but not always.
It shouldn’t normally be your first thought if you are having trouble paying a debt to the lender.
Asking for the CCA normally only works if your debt has been sold to a debt purchaser – unless the debt is very old.
Contents
How to ask for your CCA agreement
There is a template letter to ask for your credit agreement in this National Debtline factsheet. That factsheet also has a lot of information about CCA agreements and if you have any problems with one, talk to National Debtline.
This is not the same as templates asking for a copy of your personal information or making a Subject Access Request. If you want to find out if the debt is enforceable, use the specific CCA agreement wording.
Some points to be careful about:
- ask the current creditor for the CCA agreement, not the original creditor;
- you have to send a cheque or a postal order for £1;
- send the letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it and the postage receipt.
Also read the rest of this article first! You need to know what you will do if the lender sends you the agreement and what if the lender doesn’t.
What happens if they don’t send the CCA agreement?
If you don’t get a copy of your CCA agreement within 12 working days of asking, the creditor can’t enforce the debt in court until they do send it to you.
If the creditor can’t easily find the CCA agreement they may send you an acknowledgement of your request. Something like the following is typical:
we acknowledge the 12 day time limit to provide this information but as we have to request the details from the original lender we anticipate that we will not be able to provide this within 12 days but hope that within 40 days we will have retrieved the information to comply with your request.
A 40 day period is often mentioned but doesn’t have any legal standing.
It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.
I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them.
“Legal but not enforceable”
The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.
The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.
When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment. Here is what I suggested to a reader who was getting letters that left off this important fact: “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment”
Here are some more implications of the debt being legal but not enforceable:
- if you claim a PPI refund, this may be set off against the balance you still owe.
- the debt can still be sold to another debt collector. Make sure you keep all the CCA agreement letters or emails so you can just tell the new creditor you asked for the CCA agreement on dd/mm/yy and you won’t be paying anything to the debt until it is produced.
- you may be able to leave the debt out of an application for a Debt Relief Order so it won’t count towards the maximum debt limit. Talk to your DRO adviser about this.
- See below for the effect on your credit record.
“So I can just stop paying?”
If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.
But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months.
If the debt is in a DMP you will have to tell the DMP firm to stop paying it. Dent them the letter from the creditor saying they can’t locate the agreement.
You may find the idea of not paying scary. If you do, talk to National Debtline about this debt and the rest of your financial situation. It does help, being able to talk to a friendly expert!
I would allow the debt collector two or three months before deciding that they aren’t going to be able to find it.
There is a small chance that the CCA agreement could be found later. This seems to be rare – if the debt collector hasn’t found it in the first few months the chances of it turning up later are very low.
“The creditor hasn’t said it is unenforceable”
Occasionally a creditor will tell you they cant produce it but you are still legally liable for the debt which is true, but irrelevant – if they cannot produce the CCA agreement the debt is unenforceable in court.
Sometimes the creditor goes into a lot of detail about how you have been paying so the debt isn’t statute barred. Also true but again irrelevant. You weren’t suggesting the debt was statute barred.
In this sort of situation, tell the creditor that you are not disputing whether you are liable for the debt or whether it is statute barred, but you would like the creditor to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they have produced the CCA.
If the creditor persists with this, make a complaint and then send the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Here is the story of a case involving an old HSBC debt, where HSBC had to pay compensation for not admitting the debt was unenforceable.
“What about my credit record?”
Is this debt still showing on your credit record? Check all three credit reference agencies to make sure.
If it isn’t on there, then it will never reappear, whether you pay it in full, in part or just stop paying.
A debt marked as defaulted will drop off 6 years after the default date:
- it will not drop off sooner because the CCA cannot be found;
- the balance will not normally be set to zero because the CCA cannot be found.
When the debt does not have a default date, if you stop paying now, a default will be added and it will then drop off in 6 years. Not good news! Read What should the default date be? and ask the original creditor to add a default date back years ago.
A default will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. And you shouldn’t want that to happen – it would mean the record would stay on your file for even if you stop paying.
The whole debt will NOT be deleted if the CCA can’t be found. The debt still legally exists, even though it is unenforceable in court, and the creditor is entitled to report your credit history accurately for it.
“Should I offer a low settlement amount?”
Some people decide to offer a low settlement amount. I don’t think this is a good idea. You don’t need to do this! Not paying them anything is a perfectly good response in most cases! It is VERY VERY rare for a debt to turn up later.
A lot of creditors simply reject the low offer, even though you think it is sensible. They know that if they refuse you may decide to give them more. You cannot make a debt collector accept this low offer or complain they are being unfair if they don’t.
If you really want to make a settlement offer, stop paying them for a few months and then make the offer. That shows they can choose between your low offer and nothing.
The only time when you should try to get the debt settled is if it will still be showing on your credit record in a year or two when you want to apply for a mortgage. Then getting the debt marked as satisfied will help your mortgage chance a lot. But if the debt is no longer on your credit record or is dropping off soon, there is no need to do this.
What if they do send the CCA agreement?
How can you tell if it is right?
You have to be sent a “true copy” of the agreement – this doesn’t have to be a photocopy of the original agreement. It must be legible and it must include:
- your name and address when the account was opened;
- the creditor’s name and address when the account was opened;
- the terms and conditions of the account at that time, including the cost of credit (the Annual Percentage Rate), when you have to make payments and your cancellation rights; and
- any other documents that were mentioned in the Terms and Conditions.
It doesn’t have to have your signature on it. Indeed if you opened the account online you may well have signed it “digitally” and there is no document with your physical signature – this is perfectly legal.
If you aren’t sure what you have been sent is correct, you can ask National Debtline about it or you could post about it on the Legal Beagles forum.
This may sound complicated but usually either the creditor admits they can’t find it or what they send you is fine.
What should you do when the CCA agreement is found?
This depends on why you were asking for the CCA agreement.
If the creditor has started a court case (you have been sent a Claim Form) then you may have hoped that the CCA agreement could not be found. But now you have it, that is not a possible defence so you need to think if you have another defence. Talk to National Debtline about your options.
If you were planning on making settlement offers to some debts and were hoping the lack of a CCA agreement could get this one settled very cheaply, that has been ruled out and you need to proceed with a more substantial offer.
If you are fed up with having to pay this old debt for many more years, look at your alternatives. If you just stop paying, you may get taken to court – especially as the creditor now has the CCA agreement ready to hand! If you have more luck with some other debts turning out to be unenforceable, can you now pay more to this one? Or is it time to look at insolvency or other options?
When should you ask for the CCA agreement – and when shouldn’t you?
A lot depends on your exact debts, who the original creditor was, who the debt collector is, and what your other options are for tackling them. So there isn’t a simple checklist here.
How old is the account and has it been sold?
The older an account is, the less likely it is that a CCA agreement will be found. It’s the age of the account that matters, not how old the debt problem is. You may have only defaulted on a catalogue account a couple of years old, but if it was opened in 2010 that’s well worth a try!
For a debt that is still with the original creditor, I wouldn’t bother asking for the CCA agreement unless the debt was VERY old or you are getting letters from solicitors about court action.
If a debt has been sold once it is less likely the current creditor can produce the CCA agreement. And this gets harder the more times the debt is sold on.
Court action and CCJs
If the creditor is seriously threatening court action, always ask for the CCA agreement. It is worth a try!
But when you already have a CCJ for a debt, it is too late to ask for the CCA agreement as the creditor doesn’t have to send it. If you have just found out about the CCJ you need to look at your options for “setting it aside“, not send a request for the CCA agreement.
Contacts about a very old debt you have heard nothing about for years?
If you haven’t been paying a debt for years and you aren’t being hassled by a creditor, you need a good reason to ask for the CCA agreement. It may be better to wait and see if you are contacted and then ask for the CCA.
But when you are contacted about a very old debt, asking for the CCA agreement is a very good idea. you should think first if the debt is statute barred, Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template you can send the creditor saying the debt is statute barred. This is simpler than asking for the CCA agreement.
But if the creditor comes back with a reason why it isn’t statute barred, then your next step should be to ask for the CCA agreement.
Hoping to settle debts with a windfall
If you have a windfall – an inheritance say – and you have a lot of debt in a DMP for several years so most of it is with debt collectors, asking for CCA agreements before you make offers is sensible. You don’t need to pay them anything if they cant produce the CCA.
Thinking about bankruptcy, a DRO or an IVA
Where insolvency (DRO, IVA or bankruptcy) looks necessary, it can be a waste of time asking for CCA agreements, unless not paying those debts would make the rest manageable.
Contacted about a debt which not yours
If a debt collector says you owe money but you don’t recognise the debt, you should send them a Prove It! letter saying you dispute the debt. Here the CCA is only part of the picture. You may get sent a copy of the CCA in answer to this – if the name and address on the agreement are yours and you did live at that property at that point, it is good evidence.
But keep focussed on the fact that what matters is proving who the borrower is.
Here is a case “Debt collector can’t prove it’s my debt but wants payment” where a debt collector admitted the debt was unenforceable as the CCA couldn’t be found but wrongly still asked for payment.
Summary
In summary, asking for the CCA agreement is an uncertain process that can take months. If you have a lot of debts, make sure you are looking at the bigger picture, as well as thinking about the individual debts.
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
When to ask for a debt write off
Pat says
Thanks Sara
I will stop paying but I was also thinking of offering a small amount on next payday (25th) as it is also the end of the tax year which might make them more willing to accept the small amount offered, as I believe they like to get as much in the books as possible at this time of year. Do you think this would make any difference.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. I suggest you are overthinking this.
HQ247 says
If I send off 3 CCA letters, all to link Financial, can I pay the £1 Yes for each with one cheque? Also, does the cheque have to be from an account in my name or can I, for instance, get my husband to write the cheque?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
£1 per debt. Separate cheques in three separate letters. I don’t think it matters if the cheques are from your husband.
Dean says
Hi Pat / Sara, Pat I know where you are getting the urge to settle this debt from. I have joined the All About Debt Forum and its all about requesting CCAs and if they are unenforceable ignoring letters and statements until the debt becomes statute barred. I think you need to have a different mindset. I also have your mindset though, i don’t want letters and calls – I want it done and dusted. I don’t want them to come back in 2 years with a valid copy of a CCA and then have to start paying them again. Anyway Sara is right that we are overthinking things, as it is unlikely that they will find your agreements. Thanks Dean
Pat says
Hi Dean
I agree, I have cancelled all payments and now wait for them to contact me where I will tell them I am not paying anything until they produe the agreements.
I would however like to put a line under this and to do this would offer a small small payment
Regards
Laura says
Hi Sara
Can I just check something with you I had a capital one card from 2012 defaulted in July 2016 . I have just been paying a £1 month since so I decided to send a cca on the 17 January after viewing your amazing site , the debt collector has just sent me a photocopy of the cca it’s clear but should they have sent me the original instead of a photocopy.
I have also had a response from another debt collector saying the account is on hold , it’s now a the two months stage , should I look at offering 5% of the balance or just wait , and making the offer should I phone in or write .
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Capital One debt – See the “How can you tell if it is right?” section in the article above.
the other debt – you could ask them why they haven’t responded, just stop paying or offer a low F&F. It’s up to you. I would do everything in writing, eg by email.
john says
i have received this letter when disputing my overdraft debt please can you help thank you Upon receiving your query I contacted bank and requested information. As this is a current account that is not protected by the CCA 1974, no application or T&C are available nor required to be produced. These document’s where given to you when the account was opened. You are able to check with the branch you opened the account with to see if they have copies of the documents however they are not regulated or required to hold this information. this letter was received on 18th November then on the 8th December i received a letter saying the debt is unenforceable because they cant find the information
and now i have just received a claim form from the courts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did they send you a Letter Before Action/Claim (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/ for what this looks like.) If they did, when & did you reply to it?
John says
Hi, yes I received a letter before claim from DCA on the 10th October 2019 and I replied to it on the 20 October 2019.
I filled in ‘section D disputing the debt’ with my complaint letter attached (which I had also sent to halifax) and I also ticked every box in ‘Section I, I need more documents and information’ I then received the letter I mentioned above saying as this is current account it is not protected by the CCA, is this true? But then after that I received another letter saying the debt is unenforceable because they can’t find the documents I requested. Then I have just received a claim form from the courts.
I was also told by them on the phone that my account was on hold until the dispute was sorted with Halifax which it isn’t, Halifax did send me a letter back but I have replied to it saying I’m not happy with there decision and taking it to the FO
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They are right that a CCA isn’t relevant for an overdraft. But the letter you were sent saying the debt is unenforceable could be useful to your defence… I can’t help with how to word your defence, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and/or post on Legal Beagles forum: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues and make sure your reply goes in on time!
John says
Thanks for your reply, I did receive a letter before claim yes on the 10th October and I replied back to it on the 20th October.
I filled in sections D and I and also attached my dispute letter that I had sent to Halifax. In section ‘I’ I ticked all boxes for them to send me all documents. And then I received a letter back saying what I mentioned in my first message (current account are not protected by CCA, is this true?) and then they sent me another letter saying the debt is unenforceable so I didn’t reply.. Then I receive a claim form 2 days ago.
Before I had received these letters I had rang them also because I was worried about getting a CCJ because I hadn’t heard back from them for a while after sending my letter before claim letter. During this phone call they said my account will be on hold until my dispute has been sorted and they even said it will be on hold if I take it to the FO.
I did receive a response letter last week from Halifax saying they are not upholding my complaint for a reason that was totally irrelevant, they had mis-read the reason for my complaint. But I have wrote back to them saying I am taking my complaint to the FO.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
where you are now, you HAVE to enter a defence to the Claim. If you do not you will get a CCJ “by default”. So please talk to National Debtline or post on Legal Beagles.
D Young says
I have been contacted from a credit agency asking to pay a mobile phone bill that either was transferred to my business account or was for my business account. They are refusing to provide any evidence so I can’t find out. What can I do??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Say you need evidence of the debt before you will pay it.
TEMI says
Hi Sara, Thank you for all your previous assistance, I hope you will be able to help me with this
After requesting for a CCA since last July 2019, I have received a bundle of statements dating back from 2000 from a DC’ Solicitor with a covering letter that says ‘As requested please find enclosed a statement of Account, we are currently awaiting a copy of the agreement from our client, should this be available, we will forward this to you. We trust the above confirms the current position of the account but please do not hesitate to contact us……. The client is Arrow Global and the solicitors are drysdenfairfax solicitors.
How should I respond to this please? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you still paying them?
TEMI says
No, I haven’t made a payment since August 2018. Have been on a DMP from 2006 till 2016, them was making a £1 token payment till 2018.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that the debt is now unenforceable and you will not be making any more payments until they find the CCA.
TEMI says
Thank you for this Sara, the statements gave me a real panic as I didn’t realise that it was so old. I will respond to the letter tonight as advised and hopefully I won’t be getting any other nasty surprises. Thanks again.
rob says
Hi sara many thanks for previous advise I have sent off to all my 10 creditors to supply me with CCAS
Having checked my credit report pra group are still showing on my credit report this is a Barclay card opened in 2005 all the other 9 have dropped off surely that shouldn’t be showing as its 14 years old also once a old debt has dropped off your credit report can it reappear
Again many thanks for website and advise it’s helped me massively
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was a default ever added to this debt?
rob says
I can’t be sure unfortunately as it was in 2005
PRA group have placed my account on hold until they try and locate my CCA if this went on for two three months will this affect my credit score as this is still on my credit report
Idem have got back to me and as it stands can’t find the original CCA and can’t be enforced but are saying the debt still exists and will continue to pursue this debt which will include registering any arrears and defaults with the credit reference agencies
As this debt is no longer on my credit report and I stop paying as it’s not enforceable will the debt reappear
Many thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should complain to Barclaycard that no default was ever added to this debt and ask them to add one now. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
Idem:
“As this debt is no longer on my credit report and I stop paying as it’s not enforceable will the debt reappear”
no it won’t.
Carmen says
Hi Sara
My husband and I entered into a DMP over 16 years after being unable to keep up minimum payments to several creditors. Since then we have been paying cca £115 a month without fail distributed amongst 6 or 7 creditors. At present there are two remaining debts totalling £14k.
We are struggling financially more and more and my husband is coming up to retirement age in a few months time so the situation will only worsen.
We have no property, no assets. Last time I saw our credit report none of these debts were showing.
Is this a case where I could write to the two creditors directly requesting the CCA agreement?
Many thanks
Carmen
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What sort of debts were these, loans, credit cards, overdrafts?
Carmen says
Hi Sara
They were loans and credit cards.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then definitely! Those are very old debts, it may well be that the CCAs can’t be found.
If they can’t be, I see no reason to offer any money to settle them, they have had enough money from you over the years!
Naomi says
Hi,
I followed your advice re: requesting a CCA. Robinson Way have written back saying they have marked my account as unenforceable, meaning they will not pursue any legal action and informed their client to remove any reporting on my credit file and this will be actions within 30 to 40 days.
Does this mean I don’t have to pay towards this debt now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds like it! If you are unsure, phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and talk through the reply you have had from RW.
Dean says
i had a similar letter from Robinson Way saying the debt is unenforceable until such time as the original creditor provides an agreement. So i’m not paying anything yet; however by doing this i feel in limbo. I am saving the money so that i can pay if i have to but it feels like there will not be any closure. I have read that people have waited years and then a valid CCA has come out of the woodwork. In truth if they cannot find the CCA in the first 6 months then i think its unlikely they will and in these unprecedented times i’m pretty sure DCA’s and the banks will be working from home without access to historic documents. Anyway good luck Dean
Mona says
Hi Sara
I had old different old credit card and loans (all taken before 2008) and couldn’t cope with payments and got into interest freeze and smaller payments, this was sold and resold to different companies then later i arranged for a DMP through a debt management company and was making £100 till last month but due to corona crisis my husband became jobless and I couldn’t make payment and now DMP company is ringing me every day asking for missed payment.
But my credit file shows no previous loans and is completely green with good scores.
How can I get rid off this previous debT making my life hell.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So first thing, ask your DMP company for a payment break for three months because your husband has lost his job. The DMP firm should agree. That will take the immediate pressure off you.
Then you can set about asking all the debt collectors to produce the CCA agreements for loans and credit card debts in your DMP. Read the article above which explains how to do this. If you start this now, then in a couple of months you will know how many can find the CCA and how many can’t. With such old debts this is DEFINITELY worth doing, it’s not guarantor work but it may for a lot of your debt.
Shezza A says
Hi Sara, I received a letter from Link Financial about an old debt, asking for repayments. This debt is unenforceable as I asked for the CCA and it could not be provided so stopped paying this several months ago. But this letter I received does not state that the debt is unenforceable. Could I just ignore the letter or if not, what can I do? Thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what did the letter say?
Shez A says
Sorry for the delay in replying. It stated the amount that is owing, that they need to see a budget (form attached) and they need us to act urgently on this. I have not yet responded as don’t know what to do now.
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that they agreed on dd/mm/yy that the debt was unenfoceable so you are surprised to receive a this new letter from them asking you to complete a budget sheet but which does not mention the fact the debt is unenforceable. Point out this is in contravention of the FCA’s CONC 13.1.6 (4) which says
“The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment … in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.”
Add that you do not intend to make any payments to the debt while it is unenforceable.
Shezza A says
thanks so much for your advice Sara
HQ247 says
Hi Sara,
Have heard from 3 out of 4 creditors that my debts are unenforceable as they cannot provide the CCA. The most recent correspondence from Link states ” We confirm that the agreements are currently unenforceable until such time we have provided you with the documentation and complied with your request. However the account balances remains collectable and it is acceptable for creditors to register and continue the reporting of a default “. Is this a typical reply in respect of default reporting? Both debts do not show on my credit report due to their age.
Thanks for you help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a standard response. As the debts are not on your credit report, there will be no impact on you.
HQ247 says
Thankyou Sara.
I’m just waiting for 1 more reply, also from Link. How long should I continue to make payments for? I intend to make a 5% f&f settlement offer at end of July/start of August.
I wrote to them on 31 March and the received reply today, which was dated 27 April. The final reply will, hopefully, be with me soon although the £1 cheques has only recently been presented to my bank!
Thanks again for all your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s up to you, but I suggest you stop making payments now to the ones that are unenforceable. And give the last one another month or two before stopping.
HQ247 says
Is there a specific letter to advise that I am stopping payment as no CCA and therefore unenforceable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No – you don’t have to tell them, they know.
lynn says
Hi Sara. Unfortunately before I was aware of asking for CCAs I had paid most of my debts off. I have one outstanding with Link and am paying them and never defaulted. I asked Link for my CCA from Barclaycard and they said allow up to 8 weeks which is next week. If it is not received in that time, do I just stop paying and if I do miss a payment, will it go on my credit file? They have consistently refused to allow me any f and f settlement other than 90% of the full debt? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the Barclaycard defaulted on your credit record? When was it sold to Link?
lynn says
I do not know if it is defaulted on my credit record as I did not miss payments but went to Stepchange who organized a fair share amongst my creditors. I know my Halifax never defaulted as Stepchange were paying more than the monthly amount they wanted, Its was sold to Link about 4 years ago if I remember correctly.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you check your credit record then. Until you know how it shows at the moment , it is difficult to say what will happen if you stop paying.
lynn says
Thank you very much
JohnC says
We can all do with a bit of positivity, so here is some.
10 years ago I crashed financially. I was redundant and spent the money too quickly, expecting to get another job quickly. I didn’t, so I took out a loan. The job never materialised. I had £120k of debt and numerous calls from creditors. They sold my debt on to increasingly aggressive debt chasers.
I never responded to any of them. Eventually I got a CCJ but I still didn’t respond.
My credit rating was rubbish. Happily my wife was earning enough for us to survive, and I became an unpaid carer in exchange for a roof over our heads.
6 months ago I started earning a small amount and the CCJ had about 6 months to run. I got a credit builder credit card to rebuild my credit score. I paid off the balance and the credit limit increased. A week ago, my CCJ expired. Overnight my credit score is ‘Excellent’.
Debtcamel helped a lot. I heard rumours that creditors send in bailiffs just before CCJs expire. Sara reassured me and it didn’t happen. I’m back in clear water having not paid a penny. (I had always intended to get another job and repay, but it wasn’t to be).
Thank you Sara for your cool, constructive comments and courage to the rest of you. I really know how tough it is and I just want to encourage you, particularly in the current crisis. I don’t recommend you ignore demands, but if you can, not paying and waiting (for several years), might just work.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
um, let’s be clear, when you asked if creditors tend to send out bailiffs in the last few months of the 6 years I said:
“I don’t think I have seen enough cases at that exact point to be able to reply.”
You may have taken that as reassuring, it was intended to be neutral.
I will say that it was a huge pity you didn’t go bankrupt 10 years ago. It would have been a lot less stressful and your credit record by now would have been great for 4 years.
lynn says
Not really fair to the rest of us who have scrimped and saved, taken 3 jobs to pay off our debts! Not just ignore them. I have paid off over £150k in debts over the past 10 years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
People choose their own routes. A debt adviser such as myself would say that both of you should probably have gone bankrupt.
JohnC says
I agree with both of you.
1. I was advised to, and should have gone, bankrupt but unrelated circumstances made that impossible.
2. I never ignored the debts but that’s absolutely not the same thing as responding.
3. Sara, in my original draft of the post I did indeed include your comment in full, however the system limits the number of words/characters that I could include and I couldn’t find a way of including it, hence my inadvertent misrepresentation – my apologies.
Individual circumstances vary enormously and I’m not recommending my approach in any way, however I do feel that it is important that those who find themselves in financial difficulties know that there are ways through them, and multiple ways. I’m sorry if my post has upset anyone – it was truly intended to do the opposite.
My thoughts are with those who are feeling the pressure and are finding it difficult to get comfort or support during lockdown.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good luck – I hope it all goes smoothly for you from here on.
lynn says
Thank you Sarah. My pride and upbringing would not let me do that. I did not want to lose my home either. It makes me sad that some people run up huge debts but do not take the responsibility that goes with them. Mine was due to a bad breakup and other factors, but I can at least say I have almost paid everyone back now and thank Stepchange for all their help..
Sandra says
Hello, I have requested a CCA from debt collector, but received only a digital application signature and they say this is enough to comply with CCA request. That application form contains few of my details only, some aren’t even correct and some different from the DAS sent by original creditor, who btw also didn’t send me a copy of agreement. There is no creditor’s name or address, no terms and conditions, no cost of the credit or anything else mentioned in this article above on that application or with it. There is one line that says t&c and some letters and numbers next to it. The doc itself looks like something anyone can make on power point. They also send me a letter with some info about ‘electronic signature’ and Electronic Communications act 2000. So in my understanding this is a signature to alleged agreement, but am I right to think they still should provide me with an agreement, and the document should have a title of an ‘agreement’ and look like an agreement even if it is reconstituted?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Sandra, the article above says who to talk to (national Debtline and/or Legal Beagles) if you don’t think it looks right.
Colin says
Hi, I am currently in a DMP with stepchange. I started this 5 years ago. I owed 18k I now owe 8k. I have 6 creditors the biggest one being a credit union. I have 5 defaults 3 end in july, 1 in December and another in may 2021. I have a mortgage and wish to get a better deal. How can I best look to end the DMP. I have £3500 in cash saved. Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
which creditor has not defaulted you? How many debts have been sold to debt collectors? How much do you owe the CU?
Colin says
I have 2 defaults with Natwest. 2 with Barclaycard and one I paid of ages ago separate. I owe the credit union £2700, the others are with debt collectors.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so your options include:
– asking the CU to add a default back 5 years ago, so it will drop off your credit record sooner
– asking the debt collectors to produce the CCA agreements for the debts (NB not of they were overdrafts). If they can”t you can stop paying but the defaults will stay on your credit record until they drop off which will make remortgaging with a different provider hard.
– making F&F offers to all of the debts (or all minus any ones where the CCA can’;t be produced. If these are accepted, then your DMP ends and a year after you should be able to look for a remortgage with anyone.
– just talking to your current mortgage provider who is likely to be a lot less fussed about the DMP.
Colin Harris says
Great, the credit union is not on my credit report they dont put it on I just included it as it was a debt. I will go down the CCA route. Thank you very much. Stepchange also said because I had never missed a payment the debtors would unlikely accept a lower amount to settle early. However with covid 19 I am in a job with a basic salary plus commission 50/50 split. I am likely to earn a lot less for the foreseeable so I am not sure if this will help with early settlement if they think I cant repay anymore. I may offer £3000 to settle the £8k.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not sure what credit report you are looking at… have you checked Experian, Equifax and TransUnion? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to this for free.
Colin Harris says
Hi, I check experian it doesn’t show. I will check transunion. They did say to me because it’s a local union it isn’t credit checked and doesn’t show up anywhere.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And check Equifax as well…
Colin says
Hi, nothing on any of the credit agencies at all listed. Odd.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
not odd, but it was good to check and be sure. So you don’t need them to add a default date.
Colin Harris says
Brilliant. I will complete the CCA and go from there. Much appreciated
Colin Harris says
Hi, do I ask the credit union for a CCA? I dont think they have them? They just filled in a manual agreement. I am completing the paperwork today. Appreciate all your efforts
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some CU loans are covered by the CCA Act. You could ask them for the CCA agreement and if they say you loan is exempt, talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this.
Blooming says
Hi Sara
I have just received a letter from a debts collector’s soiicitor to say that ‘a copy of the agreement has been provided by our client’. it then went on to say ‘unfortunately, due to the current circumstances, we are unable to send documents in this format via post. Therefore we ask that you contact us in order to provide your email address. Once we have your response, electronic comies of the documents will be sent to you via email.’
Is this normal? i really dont feel comfortable giving them my email can i refuse this? The background for this debt is. it is for a credit card taken out in year 2000, it defaulted in 2008 but i had been making payments payment on a DMP and later token payments of £1 until 2018 when i stopped making payment. I requested for the CCA about 8 months ago and was sent copies of my statements last month. I will appreciate any advice you can give regarding this. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send them your email address. What are you worried about?
These aren’t normal times and a lot of businesses have people working from home and sending out post is a lot more difficult.
Blooming says
Ok, I will do. Thanks.
Terry says
Hello Sara
I have a recently defaulted credit card debt.
The credit card account was opened in 1989 but later transferred or sold – I believe twice – before ending up with the current credit card provider in 2008. However, the defaulted debt balance consists of transactions wholly within the last 5 years. [Prior to this all purchases/transactions were paid and so at the end of 2014 the card had a nil balance.]
Should I wish to make a s.78 CCA request what documents would I be seeking? Is it just the terms and conditions covering the last 5 years from when the balance built up or those right back to the time I took out the original credit card in 1989?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you hoping this debt is unenforceable? That won’t remove the default from your credit record…
Terry says
Yes. I’m hoping it may be unenforceable, but at present I’m paying what I can afford.
My credit record is to be honest “trashed” and will have/has defaults from other credit cards taken out more recently, so that is not my primary concern. I’m just trying to find out my position with this debt (and some additional “old” accounts) should one or other of my creditors decide to take legal action.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk to a debt adviser about your complete situation. I see too many people worrying about whether some old debts are enfoceable and not facing up to the whole picture.
Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and talk through everything and what your options are. They can advise on asking for CCA agreements too, but honestly it doesn’t sound as though that should be close to your priority list of important things.
Terry says
Just wanted to thank you for the advice.
adam says
Hi sara,
I have two outstanding catalogue debts of from 2013 when due to ill health i was unable to work for some period of time. i have been paying a token gesture of £1 month for each debt since 2013 oustanding balance is £2415 and £815 should i ask for a CCA of ask to pay a final settlement
regards
adam
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you want to settle old debts it is usually a good idea to ask for a CCA first.
Are these two debts still showing on your credit record?
Maisie says
Please could someone offer some advice.
I received a reconstituted CCA from PRA group for Barclaycard for an account opened in 2006.
It states my name and address but no credit limit or APR.
PRA group sent a letter with it asking me to call them to arrange a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle the balance. When I called they said that the letter was sent in error and I need to continue paying as normal. Does this sound strange?
And would a reconstituted agreement usually need to show the credit limit?
thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read the “How can you tell if it is right?” section in the article above and then talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your options.
Jay says
Hi Sara
If a debt has fallen off my credit file, literally in the last 3 months but remains enforceable , CCA recd, and I continue making payments, circa £10 per month, debts over circa £5k, is it more likely that the creditor will negotiate a settlement with you?
Btw I contacted national debtline, took me many attempts and many days to get through to a specialist they don’t really provide a huge more info on exactly what to expect from a creditor for the CCA response
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it more likely that the creditor will negotiate a settlement with you?
No. It makes no difference.
Jay says
Can you advise on any tactics to negotiate a settlement in this scenario please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much do you want to offer and Where is the money coming from? And how much are you paying each month?
Jay says
Circa £5,300, I currently pay just under £10 per month, my daughter has offered me up to pay up to £1,000 for a f&f settlement
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is £10 a month all you can afford? If it is, you get an income & expenditure statement showing that, and send it to the debt collector saying you cant afford any more a month and your daughter has offered £1000 in full and final settlement if that will settle the debt.
Jay says
Thank you Sarah really helpful
Sara (Debt Camel) says
there is a budget tool here you can use https://tools.nationaldebtline.org/yourbudget/ – any problems and talk to National Debtline about it and explain why you want it.
Scott says
Hi,
I plan to apply for a mortgage in 2-3 years time however between me & my partner have a few defaults showing on our credit files which I understand is best to have them settled for a period of 12 months.
Some of the defaults have been sold to Lowell, is it worth asking them for the CCA in the hope they can’t provide them and then offering them reduced settlement fees? I understand it would then show on credit file as settled however with reduced settlement.
This would then allow me to clear the debts quicker and starting on the mortgage deposit.
Thanks,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How old are the defaults? What sort of debts have been sold to Lowell, credit cards, loans, overdrafts…?
Scott says
There is 2 store cards from 2017, A phone bill from 2018 & a credit card from early 2019.
Tony W says
Hi Sara.
I recently sent CCA requests to 5 DCAs who have bought various loans. I’ve had a response from PRA group which includes a copy of the Barclayloan Agreement which appear to be legit as it has the correct name, address, amount borrowed, Interest rate etc – no signature but I’m aware that isn’t needed. My query is – in their covering letter they’ve stated some info is still being sought and they consider the account currently unenforceable – what may be still be missing? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not sure how I can guess that! I suggest you just wait and see what they later say.
Tony W says
Ha! Yes I see that – I just wasn’t sure if there was some mystical document or detail that was commonly missing, but as you suggest, I’ll hold tight for now
Catherine says
Hi
I was wondering if you could help.
I currently have a default for a car finance with Vauxhall. It defaulted in 2016 and sold to debt managers. I have not made any payments to them as they added a 2nd default. I complained and the account it on hold until the original is taken down.
I requested a copy of the CCA and got a email response saying they will be in touch when they receive it. This was over a month ago. The amount is for £5,501. If they can’t find the CCA can I just not pay at all or am I best offering 5-10% and asking for the account to be settled?
I also have 4-5 defaults all from 2015-2016 and none are with original companies. Am I best requesting CCA for all of them?
Thank you in advance for any help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they can’t find the CCA can I just not pay at all
yes – the debt will then drop off your credit record 6 years after the default date.
or am I best offering 5-10% and asking for the account to be settled?
you can do this but the creditor may not accept! Also settling the debt will not improve your credit score but it may make some lenders more prepared to lend to you. Mortgage lenders like to see debts settled – but they also like to see them settled for a year or so before any mortgage application.
Am I best requesting CCA for all of them?
The article above looks at which debts you can and can’t ask for a CCA for and when you should think about doing this and when you shouldn’t.
Michelle says
Hi Sara, Most of my defaults have now dropped off my credit file (but still exist). I have asked for CCA agreements, some have come back others haven’t. I want to offer one of those that have a reduced amount to settle. My question is, if I now settle with a lesser amount will this then reappear back on my credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no they won’t reappear.
Have you stopped paying anything?
Michelle says
Just those that haven’t provided agreements.
I’m waiting for one more to respond before I offer settlements to them all.
I didn’t want to do this if it then reappeared with the settlement showing on my credit file.
mohammed says
Hi i just wanted some advice, I am currently being chased by a debt collector agency for an outstanding debt with capital one, I decided to dispute it becouse i cannot afford to pay it, they sent me a letter dated 21/05/2020 saying they had purchased the debt from capital one, they didnt tell me I have 30 days to challange the debt In the letter , I decided to send them a CCA request which I posted on 11/06/2020, I changed my name in 2017 by deedpoll, but mistakenly signed the letter under my previous name which they reffered to me by, even though I had already told capital one i had changed my name before the debt was sold on, does this make the cca request letter void, even if I have sent a replacement cca request correcting the error or would the 12 days start from the date on the replacement cca request was recieved, I Have sent both letters signed for next day delivery as I wanted proof that they had recieved it as I am under the understanding that recorded delivery only confirms that the letter was posted and not recieved. if they refuse to sign for them then what would I do in this situation. the debt was originally showing as capital one on my credit file, however it was removed about a month before I received the letter to say they had purchased the debt, its not statued barred as the last payment made was in march 2019.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As you have sent a replacement CCA request, it doesn’t seem to matter if the first one was valid does it?
The 12 days really isn’t important, you aren’t likely to get a response in that time. It can be a couple of months before they say they can’t find the CCA.
It seems very unlikely they will refuse to sign for a letter.
HQ247 says
Hi Sarah, I’ve had confirmation that 3 out of 4 debts are unenforceable due to there being no CCAs available currently Financial have sent me a copy of a CCA from MBNA, I have disputed this as it is illegible and not all the Information is there. Link have confirmed that they are treating this as a dispute. Does this mean that the debt remains unenforceable until the dispute is sorted? On a side note the application form they sent shows that the card applied for at a airport and has a signature and handwriting which is not mine!
Also, whilst the dispute is on going can I still make a low offer to settle the debt? I plan to do this for all 4 at end of July.
Thanks again for all your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
IF Link are treating this as dispute, they should not start court action until it is resolved.
You could make a low offer to settle if you want at any time, but it may be simpler to wait?
Douglas says
Hi Sara, following your advice on the default date article, I wrote to Link Financial on 12th May using the template letter. I couldn’t send it recorded delivery due to lockdown but I know they’ve received it as the cheque cleared on 26th May. I have had no reply so what should I do next?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you asked for the CCA – you need to wait a while. Nothing happens fast with these. After they have had it for a couple of months you could enquire what is happening.
Vicky says
Hi Sara ,
I’ve just requested a CCA from PRA group to whom I’ve have two accounts with. We’ve paid off over 24k and these are the only two remaining due to them not wanting to settle. An advisor told me they would only ever offer us 5% reduction because we are “good debt” as we pay regularly and they would rather go full term which is in the excess of 65 years how is this realistic. We want to settle both accounts but they aren’t budging I doubtful they will be able to produce the CCA because both debts are over eight years old and one has been sold FIVE TIMES . If they can’t am I right in thinking I might have some leverage for a F&F
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if they can’t find the CCA you can simply stop paying. You do not have to settle the debts in that situation.
Jane says
Hi. I currently have a StepChange DMP and am making monthly payments (£79 in total) toward 5 debts. My annual renewal is due. I was made redundant at the on 2019 but found a new job quickly and have since saved a little recently. My family maybe able to help with a small lump sum. I guess I could probably raise about £10-12k in total to offer towards F&F settlements in total, which is what brought me here for advice.
I’ve now read about asking for CCA for older debts first. I’m not sure if that’s from the agreement date or default date? I’ve listed my debt and who they are with below? Could you advise on these are worth requesting CCA? Will that potentially it me in a position to offer a lower settlement as that’s all I have? I do understand it doesn’t include my banks accounts so would I need to look at settling these at a higher rate?
PRA Group – MBNA credit card opened May 1999
Balance was £23,926 now £22,295. Default Aug 2016
Link – Barclaycard credit card opened June 2010
Balance was £11,588 now £10, 768. Default Mar 2016
Cabot – Barclaycard – credit card opened April 2012
Balance was £3,868 now £3,679. Default June 2016
PRA Group – Natwest Joint bank account opened Aug 1994
Balance was £4,755 now £3,761. Default Oct 2016
PRA Group – Natwest Personal bank account opened Nov 1991
Balance was £565 now £361. Default Oct 2016
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That MBNA debt is very old -it’s not guaranteed but it is well worth asking PRA for the CCA for that.
I would ask Link and Cabot for the 2 ex Barclaycard debts as well.
If some of these aren’t enforceable then you can ignore them and offer a higher settlement to the debts that are.
Jane says
I asked PRA for the CCA, as this is largest debt, and have received a copy. I’ve also renewed my DMP via StepChange. What would your recommendation be now on trying to negotiate a F&F settlement figure or allowing DMP run? What happens when the defaults expire?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is surprising PRA have produced that CCA agreement. Have you read the section in the article above How can you tell if it is right?
Jane says
Hi, yes it’s my original application form and a just legible page of financial and related conditions.
HQ247 says
Hi Sara,
I have 3 debts with Link Financial, all of which were previously deemed unenforceable. They have sent me one of the CCAs which I have disputed as it was illegible and not all of the required information was included.
I have just received correspondence regarding my dispute but it is in respect of one of the other debts for which I am still awaiting a CCA.
The covering letter states
“I note that we have not breached and of the guidelines that govern our organisation and business practices and, as such, will not be taking any further action”. They then refer to the enclosed Dispute Review Conclusion Form. The letter then goes on to say that if I am dissatisfied I can contact the Credit Services Association and have the right to refer the dispute to the FOS.
Their “Dispute Review/Investigative notes state that this debt is unenforceable.
However the same form then gives an “Overall Response” that says my complaint has not been upheld.
So on one hand they say this debt is unenforceable and then state that my complaint has not been upheld.
Please help, I am confused. Are they saying this debt, not the one I have disputed, is unenforceable or enforceable.
I can email you the correspondence if that would be clearer.
Thankyou.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know. I think you should go back to them and say they appear to have misread your complaint which was about a different loan.
HQ247 says
Hi Sara, emailed Link Financial the following:
With reference to the above and to your correspondence dated 19th inst. can you please advise the following;
1..Why have I been sent this correspondence? I have not disputed this account as I have not received the relevant documentation previously requested for same!
2..The account referred to above is currently unenforceable, see your correspondence dated 01 May 2020.
HQ247 says
Hi Sara, did as you said, the following is their reply;
Further to your email dated 25 June 2020, the content of which has been noted. We can confirm that we were responding to what was mentioned to us as a dispute rather than a statement.
We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused you, however our response still remains the same. Regardless of whether or not the agreement is enforceable, it does not mean that your liability is therefore simply dismissed in its entirety. We are therefore only responding to inform you that we may continue with our collections process and we are able to continue to contact you as you have failed to pay the outstanding balance that remains due.
If you at all feel that this is not acceptable, then as per our final response letter dated 17 June 2020, we would only refer you to seek alternative advice from The Financial Ombudsman Services (FOS). Until then we will ask that you contact us to reinstate your direct debit for an affordable monthly repayment amount.
Please advise!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you just reply that you will not be paying the debt as they have said it is unenforceable.
Wait until they contact you again and then put in a complaint if their contact does not mention the debt is unenforceable.
Reena says
Hello Sara,
This is a follow up enquiry.
In Jan 2020 I requested a copy of the CCA for a debt managed by Idem. They replied advising they were unable to locate a copy and therefore the debt in unenforceable. I was paying off this debt through a DMP with Stepchange however stopped after 2 months of receiving confirmation the debt is unenforceable. Today I’ve received a letter from Idem stating they have not received payment from Stepchange and I need to get in touch within 14 days they will resume collection activity.
My questions are: Should I respond to this letter? If so, what should I state in my response?
Thanks in advance.
Reena
Sara (Debt Camel) says
does the letter you have just received mention that the debt is unenforceable?
Reena says
No, it doesn’t mention anything about the debt being unenforceable, just that there has been no payment since April from Stepchange and to get in touch to reinstate payments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Right, well I suggest you reply that they told you on dd/mm/yy that the debt was unenforceable and you will not be paying it. Add that the FCA says that CONC 13.1.6 (4) says that
The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.
so you were surprised that their letter did not mention this and that the next time you get a similar letter asking for payment that does not state the debt is unenforceable you will be putting in a formal complaint.
Mrk says
I had a credit card debt (12 years old) with an agreed payment plan that was being managed by a debt collector. I was up to date with the payments but recently i noticed they were being returned. I called the debt collector and they informed me that they sold the debt months ago. I contacted the new debt collector by phone to get new details to make payments to. They had a record of my old credit card number but my old adress. I updated them with my new adress over the phone and have been making payments. I have checked my credit report and this debt is not appearing on there. Should I ask for the CCA in writing? Should I contact my old credit card provider first?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is a very old debt. It may be that the new debt collector can’t get a copy of the CCA agreement from the original lender.
You ask the new debt collector for the CCA. Use the template in the article above as the wording is important. And enclose £1 cheque with your request.
Do NOT ask the old credit card lender.
Danny says
Hi,
In April I paid £1500 as a settlement figure , now I have read this forum I wished I requested the CCA first, can I request a refund from them if they cannot produce the agreements? Even though I have partially paid
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, sorry.
Frankie says
Hi
I have three credit cards debts which have been sold two to PRA Group £5350 and £12,130 and one to Moorcroft £8,500. I am paying £50 per month on the PRA ones and £143 per month on the Moorcroft one. The date of the credit is 2011 default 2018, 2000 default 2018 and 2013 default 2019. Would it be worth me requesting CCA’s. I offered a settlement of 50% (dad offered to lend me the money) but they refused saying settlement not possible
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is possible that the debt collector may not be able to produce the CCA agreement for one or more of those debts, indeed it is quite likely (though not certain) for the card opened in 2000.
Frankie says
Thanks I will send out the letters and see what they come back with? Does it mean that if they come back and say they are not enforceable I don’t have to make any more payments after the period has lapsed and could make then make an offer of 5%?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if they say the debt is not enforceable you can simply stop paying. There is no need to make a settlement offer at all if you are prepared to put up with the odd reminder that the debt still legally exists even though it is not enforceable.
Bernie says
Hi Sara, new to this site.
I am the youngest of the siblings, my brother who is a pensioner, homeowner outright, retired. He was made redundant in 2009. At that time he was still paying mortgage, and credit card payments. He then released his ppi, one credit card was paid in full, mortgage interest was also paid. The other credit card paid the ppi. after the 12 months he then contacted them and said look I can’t afford the repayments left on the balance, but i’m happy to give you £10.00 a month. This was accepted and he could log into his account and pay this every month. Suddenly they stopped it, he could no longer access the site, so they sent him giro slips. He then as time went on realized that he couldn’t afford the £10.00 and reduced his payment to £5.00 a month. Credit card company accepted this. They then stopped sending giro slips. The debt was passed on to wescot services, he reduced his payment to £1.00. They had already recieved ppi money for 12 months but were continuing to take the premiums from his account every month. He then contacted them and said “am I owed a refund” THE ANSWER WAS NO. He has continued to pay his token payment for well over 12 months+. Until he was contacted by a solicitor. DRYSDENFAIRFAX ON BEHALF OF ARROW GLOBAL. Who we know are part of MBNA/Virgin Money. I’d like to know enforceable this debt is, and how I can help my brother, who is frightened that he wll be taken to court or worse still bailiffs will turn up. Please help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Arrow Global is not part of MBNA or Virgin Money. MBNA has no connection with Virgin Money.
The only way to find out if this debt is enforceable is to ask Arrow to produce the CCA agreement.
Bernie says
Hi Sara, Thank you so much for replying. Now that I have gone through his paper work, he got a letter from Arrow Global dated the 24th feb 2020 statement, Original Creditor: MBNA Limited, Affinity Brand: Virgin Money. also it says that Drysdenfairfax are servicing this account on behalf of Arrow Global. He pays his token payment to Drysdenfairfax each month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The only way to find out if the debt is enforceable is to ask Arrow for the CCA agreement. Nationald Debtline can advise him (or you if you are helping him) how to do this. phone 0808 808 4000.
Bailiffs can’t turn up until the creditor has a CCJ.
I don’t know why he thinks he is owed a refund. He can ask for a statement of the account that should show his payments.
Danny says
Hi is this correct ?
Good Afternoon
Thank You for your recent email.
We act on behalf of Our Client, PRAC Financial Limited. Our Client’s claim is for the sum of £186.10 and is in relation to monies due and owing under your Online Subscription with Sky UK Ltd under Account Number 630185208000. You entered into the agreement with Sky UK on 13 March 2014 and payment was defaulted on 27 September 2014.
We confirm the supply address for this service was 153 Hollywood Towers, Stockport, SK3 0HN and was terminated on 4 September 2014.
Due to the online nature of this agreement it is not subject to the consumer credit act, you entered this arrangement online by agreeing to the original client’s terms and conditions.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. This is not a credit agreement.
Danny says
So can they legally enforce it ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You asked for the CCA hoping the debt would be unenforceable if they could not produce it?
But there is no CCA for this particular debt, so that won’t work for you.
Unless you have some other reason to think the debt is unenforceable, I suggest you need to assume that they might be able to obtain a CCJ.
HQ247 says
Hi Sara, ,
I have, today, received a Subsequent Notice for Sums in Arrears, stating that as I have defaulted on monthly payments the full amount of £ 2851.94 began due. Link confirmed, in writing, on 27 April 20 that the debt was unenforceable. This is not mentioned in their correspondence received today. The last payment I made was 6 May 2020. Do I just ignore this as they’ve confirmed the debt is unenforceable?
Further, I also receive correspondence from Wescott Credit regarding the same debt. Looks like Wescott collect the payments on behalf of Link, so should I be dealing with Link or Wescott?
Tia.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These NOSIA letters are automated, I think you can ignore them/
Wescott – just tell them Link say the debt is unenforceable and you will not be paying it.
Ash says
Hi sara, i had a debt for just under £1000 with drafty who then sold it on to credit resource solutions. I sent credit resource solutions a letter in december last year asking for a copy of my cca agreement which was never responded to, but i have the tracked delivery details which proves it was signed for. I haven’t recieved any contact From them until recently where i have been inundated with emails and texts asking for payment. I think this is because they know i have recently just finished my debt management plan. Out of courtesy i rang them today and tried speaking to someone over the phone to explain what i was doing. They weren’t interested in what i had to say and instead were just trying to get me to admit that i owe them money, the lady even said what i was doing was theft. Should i now just ignore all contact? Im unsure what to do and I’m worried i will now have debt collectors turning up at my house. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is VERY unlikely they will send debt collectors to your house. Debt collectors know this is normally a waste of their time for £1000. If they do turn up they have no rigght of entry and you can tell them to get lost as politely or impolitely as fell like.
BUT it is also VERY unlikely they cannot produce the CCA agreement. You cannot rely on that meaning the debt is unenforceable.
Was this debt “affordable”? Could you pay it and not leave yourself so short you had to borrow again or get behind with other debts and bills? If NO then send them an affordability complaint.
Jane says
I have an old unsecured loan with Lloyd’s bank that dates back approximately 10 years ago it may be more! I have been paying £21 per month on a dmp with stepchange the amount was originally £23k but it is now approximately £14.5k
It will take another 40 years to pay this off which might outlive me!
Moorcroft are handling the debt but I don’t believe it has been sold to them. My parents have offered me £1,000 to make a full and final settlement to them. Do you think it is likely they will accept this? Who should I offer this to? Is it worth asking for a copy of the original agreement?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
some questions that may sound irrelevant. How large are the other debts in your DMP? Do you have a house with equity? What is your financial position like?
Jane says
This is the only debt on the dmp now. I do have equity in my house. My income has been fairly stable but hadn’t increased and I still only have £21 per month surplus to pay towards debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is a low offer to be accepted when the loan is large and you have a house with equity. But your monthly payments are low so it’s not impossible.
If you have any health concerns or any reason to think your finances will worsen in the next year or to, this is worth mentioning in you F&F offer letter. And definitely explain the money is being offers by your parents. the offer letter should be sent to Moorcroft.
It’s a hard call to say if asking for the CCA agreement is worth doing. The original creditor is massively more likely to be able to produce the CCA than a debt purchaser is.
Jane says
Ok thank you. So should I send a full and final offer letter to moorcroft?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes.
HQ247 says
Hi Sara,
Have just received a copy of my CCA from Link in respect of a Halifax loan. The CCA is pretty illegible and some of the t&cs are missing. The covering letter and their “Account Summary” are unsigned. Should I dispute this and do you know of any template letter for same?
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I cannot advise on whether what you have been sent is adequate. See How can you tell if it is right? in the article above for what to do.
HQ247 says
Hi Sara,
Idem have informed me that, after I disputed a CCA they sent me on a previously unenforceable debt, they have investigated and the debt is enforceable. I have referred the matter to the FCO as the cca was a 2 page agreement and they only sent 1 which only showed my Christian name and not my surname.
As this matter is now with the FCO do I have to make payments to Idem until such times as the matter is resolved? And do I have to inform Idem that I have referred this matter to the FCO?
Thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you mean the FCA or the Financial Ombudsman?
HQ247 says
Sorry Sara, meant Financial Ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s very unlikely the ombudsman will make a decision on this. They normally say enforceability is a matter for the courts. See “How can you tell if it is right?” in the article above for what to do.
Cheryl says
Hi,
When debts have been bought by collection agencies, is it normal practice for them to also add to your credit file on top of the original company even though you have signed nothing with them and it is many years later?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. They should use the same default date as the original creditor.
Cheryl says
Thanks Sara, they have not done that so I will look into this.
Cath says
Hi please could I get some advice
I have a debt or £5501 from a car default in 2015. The debt collection company debt managers ltd bought this debt 2017.
I have never paid them a penny. I disputed in Jan 2 defaults they had issued this was resolved in May.
In April I send CCA letter of & also requested this via email. I am yet to receive this. I email weekly & call weekly. To be told they have requested it from original creditor.
I have ordered to pay £1000 to clear & settle this debt. This was 2 weeks ago & I again have been calling & emailing & having no response. What am I best doing? I would like this settled on my credit file as it’s my only debt remaining. But I am having no look with this company.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Settling this debt will not improve your credit score if that is what you want, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/defaulted-account-credit-score/.
There are other reasons to settle a debt apart from improving your credit score. Settling means you can’t be taken to court for a CCJ – but if they can’t produce the CCA that isn’t going to happen! And some lenders may be more likely to lend to you, but this debt is going to disappear in 2021 anyway, 6 years after the default date.
I disputed in Jan 2 defaults they had issued this was resolved in May.
what happened? I hope there is still a default date on the debt!
Basically you can’t make a debt collector settle if they don’t want to.
Cath says
Thank you for the response.
I want it settled so that in a year or so I can apply for a mortgage and despite having the default I will have no outstanding balance.
They are not producing the credit agreement which I don’t believe they have as the company the debt was originally with has been sold to another company who then sold this debt to debt managers.
My concerns are for how long can they just ignore my requests for the credit agreement before they have to produce a response to tell me they don’t have it. This has been going on 5 months now & as I’ve told them it’s having a significant amount of stress on my health.
There was 2 defaults for the same debt. One with Vauxhall & one with debt managers. The credit was taken with GMAC who I believe was bought out by Vauxhall in 2017. Or OPEL. The Vauxhall default has now been removed so just the one with debt managers now. This doesn’t drop off until 2022 as the dates on it are wrong. I defaulted 2015. Took them a year to repossess the vehicle & one repossessed date is when they defaulted my credit file so 2016.
Thank you this is causing so much stress as it’s just on going & I am getting nowhere.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then get the default date corrected. Go back to the original creditor and ask for it to be in 2015.
Even if they admit they can’t find the CCA, you cannot make them accept a low settlement offer.
Reena says
Hello Sara,
Back for further advice.
I received a letter from PRA Group, the firm managing a debt on behalf an old Barclaycard. The response confirmed that Barclays Bank had been approached for a copy the CCA. PRA Group has stated:
“ We are therefore unable to fully satisfy your CCA request….which means we are not able to take you to court or further enforcement action against you… we are still legally entitled to: 1) contact you and ask you that you repay 2) pass your details onto a third party collection agency 3) send you statutory letters and annual statements.”
Since receiving this letter, I have stopped payments to StepChange however, I received a telephone call from PRA Group today stating that they have not received payments from StepChange and how would I be arranging to make payments. They’ve agreed to put further contact on hold while I make arrangements.
I would like advice on what steps to take not. I’m minded not to reinstate payments but also don’t want to continually take calls from them chasing payments.
Do you have any suggestions on how I can respond? Should I send a letter? What should it say?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you tell them you will not be paying as the debt is unenforceable. Say they are welcome to remind you about the debt but not too frequently and that you only want future future communications to be by letter or email, not phone calls or text messages.