Did your payday loans cost so much when you repaid one you had to keep on borrowing?
You can get a refund of the interest you paid on unaffordable loans.
It’s easy to ask for a payday loan refund using the free template letters here. The letters work if your payday loans were repaid or you still owe money.
The comments below this article have thousands of stories of the refunds people have got using these letters. It is a great place to ask questions!
Contents
What are “unaffordable” loans?
Was a loan affordable just because you repaid it?
No! If paying a loan left you so broke you had to borrow again – from the same lender or a different one – it was unaffordable!
The regulator says:
“the borrower should be able to make the required repayments without undue difficulty, whilst continuing to meet other debt repayment obligations and reasonable regular outgoings.”
That means a payday loan is only affordable if you repaid it on time and you could still manage to pay your other bills and debts.
Payday loans are meant to solve a short-term problem. If you kept repaying one then getting another loan soon after, the lender should have stopped lending to you.
If the loan was small and it was the first loan or second loan from a lender, the lender may not have realised the loan was unaffordable for you. But it was irresponsible lending to just carry on giving you more loans.
Many lenders ignore obvious signs of problems such as your loans increasing in size, or borrowing again soon after repayment.
How much compensation can you get?
You don’t have to calculate this. Just ask for a refund from the lender and see what you are offered. This is simple and it works well.
The Financial Ombudsman has seen tens of thousands of payday loan affordability complaints.
A typical decision by the Ombudsman is that the payday lender should refund all the interest you paid interest after the third, fourth or fifth loan.
But if your first loan was large, or was rolled over several times you could get a refund from just one loan.
Which lenders can you get refunds from?
You can complain to lenders that are still in business, even if they are no longer lending. These include:
Lending Stream, Cash Converters, CashASAP, Drafty, Dot Dot, Fast Loan Uk, Fernovo, Fund Ourselves, Kabayan, LoanPig, Mr Lender, Moneyboat, MyKredit, My Finance Club, QuidMarket, Savvy, The Money Platform, WageMe, Wizzcash,
See this email list for payday lenders for a longer list and all the contact details to use.
If the lender has gone into administration, including CashForUNow, Piggybank, Ferratum, Oakam, Safetynet Credit, Tappily:
- make a claim to the administrators – there is normally a simple form for you to complete, see the lender’s website for details – but there will be a time limit for doing this.
- you may not get much cash back but this is very easy to do. A balance may be reduced or cleared even if there is no cash to distribute. And if you win the complaint any negative marks on your credit record will be removed.
It is probably too late to make claims to other lenders who gave up years ago, see this list.
For longer-term loans there are better template letters to use on other pages:
- doorstep lenders and guarantor lenders,
- Loans2Go – the worst loans in Britain!
- 118 Money, Likely Loans, Bamboo, car finance, bank loans and other long-term loans.
Do this before, before you send in a complaint
Doing these things now will make your life easier later.
Get a copy of your TransUnion statutory credit report and keep it. After complaints are started, sometimes loans are deleted and you may want the full report if you later have to go to the Ombudsman.
If you still owe money to the lender, read Will an affordability claim hurt my credit record, and other questions. These looks at your options for stopping paying, the effect on your credit record etc.
If the rest of your finances are difficult, look into a Debt Management Plan (DMP) where you make one affordable payment a month to StepChange. This gets you into a safe financial position as these affordability complaints can take a long time to go through at the Ombudsman. Winning a complaint then speeds up the DMP.
Unless you can afford to make this month’s payment without borrowing again, cancel the CPA to the lender at your bank. Otherwise the lender may take the money and you will be in a mess.
If your loan was sold to a debt collector you complain to the original lender. But also tell the debt collector that you are disputing the debt. It is a good idea to carry on making payments to the debt collector if they are affordable.
Start your complaint & get loan details
Find the lender’s email address for complaints from this list.
Put “AFFORDABILITY COMPLAINT” as the subject of your email:
You should never have given me these unaffordable loans. Paying you each month left me with too little money so I had to keep borrowing to get through the next month.
You should have realised from the number of times I borrowed that my debt problems were getting worse. It was not responsible to continue to lend to me. [Add more details eg how often you borrowed or rolled loans if you know them, how the amount borrowed generally went up etc]
[Include/change this if your credit record would have shown big problems:] My credit reports would have shown all my other debts and problems including late payments/defaults /CCJs/debt management.]
I am asking you to refund the interest and any charges I paid, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
[delete this sentence if you know what all your loans were.] I know the difficulties your loans have caused me but I no longer have all the loan details. Please send me a list, showing for each loan when it was taken out, how much interest and charges you added, and what I repaid. This will enable me to assess any refund you offer me.
[delete this sentence if none of your loans were sold.]If a loan was later sold to a debt collector, please inform me of the date of sale and the name of the debt collector.
Some ways to improve this
Add any other points that help you describe what happened to you. You don’t need to list the loans – the lenders knows them.
Some examples:
- “I took out another loan with xxxx to pay you.”
- “Sometimes I borrowed to pay the rent and then had to top-up to get money for food.”
- if you weren’t treated fairly while you were borrowing or when you could not make a payment, add a bit about this.
You can attach bank statements if you like, This is a good idea as these show how unaffordable the loans were for you. If you have gambling showing, this helps your complaint, it doesn’t harm it.
I don’t know if many lenders actually read what you send them. I
it’s easy to make these complaints – you don’t need to calculate what refund you should get or quote laws.
Only one loan?
The template refers to multiple loans because that is what normally happens with payday lenders.
When you only had one loan and it was large, read Refunds from large loans and use the template there.
If you only had one loan and it was small, this is going to be a very difficult complaint to win. If you have borrowed once or twice from 5 leaders, that is much more difficult to win an affordability complaint than having 4 or 5 loans from two lenders.
Waiting for a reply from the lender
This email starts your affordability complaint.
They may send the list of loans first and later respond to your complaint. So don’t be surprised if you get sent info on the loans but nothing about your request for a refund.
When you get your loan information, you can send in more details about your complaint if you want. You don’t have to do this, your complaint has already begun and the lender has to reply.
The lender should reply to your complaint within 8 weeks from when you send the email, not when they acknowledge it. Make a note in your diary for 8 weeks time and chase the lender up if you don’t get a reply.
Don’t be surprised if you have to wait until the end of the 8 weeks to get response – this is common.
Send your bank statements or other information?
Some lenders ask you to send them a copy of your credit record, payslips or bank statements.
Credit record – the lender can check your credit record themselves if they want. But you should download a copy of your credit record asap as the Ombudsman will ask for it. Don’t put this off, the sooner you get a report downloaded, the further back it goes which is good.
Don’t send payslips – they won’t help an affordability complaint and the ombudsman never asks for them.
It is a good idea to send bank statements. But think twice about the cost of copying and postage if there are a lot. Some lenders seem to ignore them if you do send them.
Again this is a good point to get those bank statements even if you do not want to send them as they will help an Ombudsman claim a lot. You can get them going back at least 6 years even if the account has been closed.
Lender says No or makes a poor offer
If the lender rejects your complaint or offers you a small amount, don’t be depressed. You may still have a very good case!
It is easy and free to send your case to the Financial Ombudsman where many thousands of people have won their payday loan complaints, despite being rejected by the lender.
Give up?
Some lenders try to make your case sound bad when it isn’t. People have had large amounts refunded after a complete rejection!
Just ignore any of the following comments, they do not mean you have a weak case:
- they relied on your loan applications and you didn’t give accurate facts – see Lender says I lied for more about this;
- you repaid some loans early – this doesn’t prove the loans were affordable, just that you were trying to save interest;
- your borrowing didn’t go up every time – irrelevant, what matters is that you kept borrowing;
- you had a good enough credit score or they didn’t legally have to check your credit record – if you only had one or two small loans that is true. But if the loans were large or you kept borrowing, they should have looked more closely;
- your loans are over 6 years old – the Ombudsman will look at these even if the lender says they won’t!
A good enough case to go to the Ombudsman?
If you don’t know what to do, ask in the comments below this article. Accepting an offer settles your whole complaint – you can’t change your mind later.
Don’t worry that you will lose a small offer by going to the Ombudsman – this doesn’t happen.
Some points to think about:
- if you are offered a refund on only a few loans, don’t accept it if you think the lender should have realised a lot of the other loans were unaffordable;
- an offer to write off your current balance may sound convenient … but it may be very poor if you should get a refund as well;
- if getting defaults or late payments removed from your credit record is important to you, are you happy with what the lender is proposing to do? Don’t assume your credit record will be cleared if the lender didn’t mention this.
One or two loan cases are hard to win at the Ombudsman. It’s probably best to give up on one or two loan cases unless:
- the loan was large. Here is one single loan case that was won even though it was an installment loan and the borrower had a good income. And another single loan case for a loan of £1,000. You can win cases for smaller amounts if the repayment would have been a large amount of your income; or
- you still owe money.
Don’t delay too long – there is a 6-month time limit after a lender rejects your complaint to send the case to the ombudsman. When you aren’t sure, send the complaint to FOS. This is easy to do – let FOS make the decision.
How to send a complaint to FOS
Put in a separate complaint about each lender.
Don’t wait until all your lenders have replied before sending the first one to the Ombudsman!
FOS’s “complain online” option is easy and takes you through your complaint step by step.
You can just copy what you said in your complaint to the lender. You can add more details, for example, if you disagree with what the lender replied to you.
If some of your loans were over 6 years ago, tell the Ombudsman when and how you found out about these complaints. For example:
“I knew the loans were causing me difficulty in 2016, but I thought this was my fault for being bad with money. I didn’t find out that the lender should have checked the loans were affordable until June 2022 when my brother told me about these claims/I saw an advert from a claims company on Facebook/I read an article about these claims” – change this so it is right for your case!
Things to attach:
- the reply you have had from the lender.
- bank statements if you have them. Ideally from 3 months before your first loan until the last loan was repaid or you defaulted on it. This strengthens your case, showing how unaffordable the loans were. You can still get bank statements even if your account is closed – if you don’t have them, start the process of getting them now, don’t wait until FOS asks for them.
- a copy of your TransUnion Statutory credit report
- a copy of the credit agreements for the loans if you have them. If you don’t, don’t worry, FOS will get them from the lender.
What happens after you have sent a case to FOS
You will normally be contacted within a couple of weeks and asked for a copy of your credit record and your bank statements if you haven’t sent these. If you have sent these on one complaint, then when you complain about a different lender they will use the ones they already have.
After this initial contact, your case will wait for the lender to send FOS your case file and then wait to be picked up by an adjudicator who will make a decision on it.
If you are still making payments to the lender, tell the lender you want to reduce these to an affordable amount. This will make waiting for an Ombudsman decision much less stressful for you.
The Financial Ombudsman has a two-stage process. Most cases are settled by the first “adjudicator” stage but about 10% go to the second “Ombudsman” stage.
A few problem cases
Don’t ask for a refund:
- if you are bankrupt now or have been bankrupt in the past – any refund would go to the Official Receiver.
- if you are in an IVA, as refunds will go to your IVA firm not to you. If your IVA has finished the refund may still be sent to your old IVA firm.
- if you are in a DRO now, getting a refund may mean your DRO is cancelled!
More help
You can ask a question in the comments below – you may get a reply from someone who has been in your exact situation.
Don’t use a claims management company. They are expensive and often incompetent. It’s easy to do this yourself and you can ask questions below and get replies from other readers who have done this.
Card & catalogue affordability complaints
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief Order help you?
LG says
Update – So I have heard back from Mr lender (1 loan for 150, rolled over once, – I paid the interest of £26.75 then defaulted) – passed to MMF – the current outstanding balance is £236.62.
Mr lender have said they don’t feel their lending was irresponsible and they did credit checks (which would have shown CCJ’s, overdraft defaults etc ) but that they do not feel they were irresponsible…but as a gesture of goodwill they have agreed to reduce the balance to £123.75 – which would mean i have paid back the £150 originally owed and no interest / charges.
I think I should probably accept, but what do you all think?
Harry Iqbal says
Defo go back and ask for more they up it even if it £30 to £50 me lender the easiest to deal with so far they upped £220 open to £656 for me
Pear says
If you only had one loan and it was irresponsibly lent you still have to pay back the money they gave you, it seems fair to me.
Cat says
Had a reply from sunny today I had borrowed 50 loans over 3 yrs, total borrowing £9000. They have offered me 700. I don’t think this is quite right. I have asked for more information on the amount of interest i paid in that time.
Any other recommendations?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have a list of loans from them? You could say you can’t consider their offer until they supply you with one.
Also can you work out the interest paid from your bank statements?
Catherine says
I have sent them a list of each date the loans were borrowed as some were 3 in a week. I have asked them to provide information for interest paid on each loan.
Stacey says
Hi All
Submitted my complaint to Mr Lender on 3rd August and had my response today.
They’ve rejected my complaint stating my credit score was substantial at 545 at the time and that they expected my to be honest about my expenses or some other jargon similar. They offered me £786 based on 7 rollover interest only payments prior to the cap the FCA intorduced in Jan 2015.
I’ve submitted my complaint to FOS as I actually rolled over my loans 19 times before the Jan 15 cap and paid £2,371.80 in interest before that cap. In total I had 8 loans with Mr Lender, rolled over 22 times and paid £2,517.36 in interest based on £2,900 of borrowing so I think £786 is a bit of a low offer. Hopefully FOS agree but we will see.
A little worried as to whether I should have just accepted £786, as it’s a lot of money, hopefully I’ve done the right thing! Anyone any experience with going to FOS re: Mr Lender?
Still waiting SlowQuid response….
Thanks
Stacey
Paul says
Hi Stacey,
Mr Lender are probably the best company to deal with, from my experience. Reject their initial offe and state what you’d be happy with. They almost always up their offers. They did with me a couple of days ago. I don’t think they want the hassle of it going to the Ombudsman. They offered me £107 gesture of goodwill on Wednesday morning. I wrote back immediately, stating I would only accept £550 (based on my calculations), or I would go to Ombudsman.. They emailed me back, 24 hours later, offering me £500. I accepted and it was in my account 3 hours later.
So, don’t accept their offer, it doesn’t state ‘final offer’. They’ll always up the offer if you ask.
Good luck
Pear says
My complaint against lending stream went in the ombudsman queue on 9/6 and I received a letter from the ombudsman yesterday partially upholding my complaint which was the same as my adjudicator. So around 3 months from going in the queue to final decision, I had no loans over 6 years and I didn’t bother ringing to check what was happening as I didn’t feel it would speed things up. Hope this helps anyone currently waiting on an ombudsman.
Tom says
Hi everyone, bit of information regarding my complaint against Lending Stream…
My adjudicator upheld loans 3-28 and they had till the 30th August to reply, i spoke to my adjudicator today and they disagree with him but have offered to refund 8 of the loans.
My adjudicator said they have disagreed but not given any more info for this reason, so it will now go to an Ombudsman decision… the interesting bit was that he said while he cant tell me exactly how long this will take, he expects It should only take a couple of weeks for a decision from the Ombudsman. I was expecting a 3-4 month wait! I will update once iv heard back.
Stephen massie says
Lending stream final response, my 17 loans with lending stream was apparently affordable, although they stated my credit score was 599 (it’s not been 599 since last October!!) and have refused any wrong doing, I have sent my case to the ombudsman now as although they have given me correct information about my loans with lending stream, they failed to check which other payday loan providers I was using whilst taking out loans wth lending stream. (Since September last year I’ve taken over £12,000 worth of payday loans, over 72 loans )
;/ now the long wait begins
Mandy Burns says
Feeling a little down and deflated as the adjudicator said Wage Day Advance have done nothing wrong. Had three loans over 11 months. But had 10 other PDLs at the same time and these were the only way I could survive.
loan one for £500 (excluding interest and fees) taken out in September 2016 to be paid in monthly instalments of £188.26. This loan was settled on December 2016.
loan two for £580 (excluding interest and fees) taken out in December 2016 to be paid in monthly instalments of £185.31. This loan was settled on May 2017.
loan three for £750 (excluding interest and fees) taken out in May 2017 to be paid in monthly instalments of £239.97. This loan was settled on June 2017.
Should I send to the Ombudsman?
Has anyone had success with Ombusman when adjudicator declines.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So there weren’t any gaps between the loans and each time you were borrowing more. That is worth taking to the Ombudsman. How did you manage to repay the last loan early?
Mandy Burns says
Thanks Sara. In June of this year I was in a mess with 10 PDLs. I couldn’t afford to pay my rent and was drowning. I luckily managed to get help from my parents to get me out this the PDL spiral.
Over the past 3 years I have paid over £23,000 in interest to around 10 PDL companies so we really deflated when the adjudicator rejected. Do you know why this would be??
Kelly says
Hi I have searched the internet for help and advice around my spiralling payday loan debt I have unmanageable debt with five lenders I just lend from constantly to pay each other off at the moment I am up to date with all my payments and have never been late or missed any of them. It has now got to the point that if I pay them I can’t afford for me and my two children to live.
I have used your template letter and made a complaint to them all. I sought advice from national debt helpline who told me to cancel the CPAS inform them that I can’t pay the required payment I have also opened a standard account with another bank I just wanted to know if I can ask the lenders to put payment on hold until I have an outcome on my complaints if I pay nothing whilst waiting what will this mean should I try and make a token payment although it would be relatively small your advice would be appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it’s a good idea to offer a small affordable payment – even if that is only a token amount. Do you have a lot of non payday loan debt as well?
Kelly says
Hi I do have a considerable amount but I am able to manage this due to not being slapped with huge aprs
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s ok for a short period, but if you want your payday lenders to freeze the debt and not add on more interest, you really should be treating all your debts equally by setting up a DMP.
Kelly says
Thanks for your response I didn’t really look at it in that way so will certainly look into this I have been looking at managing a dmp myself using the cab online tools what do you advise am i best to contact stepchange and just bite the bullet and get it all sorted once and for all ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh you can do a DIY DMP yourself if you want – they work fine. If you have a lot of creditors you have it may be easier to hand everything over toi StepChange, but it’s up to you.
Xenedra says
Hi all,
I have recently sent off a whopping 18 emails to different lenders, most of my debt is in a DMP. I had an immediate response from Mr.Lender to just pay the remaining balance, no interest which I accepted as I only ever had one loan from them so it was like £80 left to pay. Myjar also came back very quickly and wiped over £800 from my outstanding debt with them, so its down to about £120. I accepted that also.
Was this a good idea with these companies?
I’m learning and I have a lot of responses to wait for.
Thanks .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If there was only one loan, then wiping the balance is usually a good result. For the Myjar, it depends on how much interest you had paid them on the previous loans?
If you get another offer like this, pop back here and ask if you aren’t sure.
Gary says
Hey I know Iv been stupid but Iv submitted a number of complaints to lenders, Iv had numerous with quick quid have never missed a payment and had over 10 loans. My problem is the complaint has been in for 7 weeks so due a final response soon. But I took out another loan this week, the first since submitting a complaint with quick quid. Do you think that will have a negative impact, I was surprised they gave me since a complaint was lodged.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I too am surprised they gave you the loan. I suggest you phone them up and say you want the loan included in your complaint and you want to set up a repayment arrangement. Cancel your CPA to them and offer what you can afford WITHOUT ANY MORE BORROWING.
If you have their balances outstanding to other lender, do the same with these.
ross says
I’m guessing we’ll not get any refund from Cheque centre now that they are in administration. :(
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That depends on their cash situation – people have been getting refunds from Cash Genie.
Hoping4arefund says
Just saw this online at insider.co.uk
CNG Holdings [their US parent company] has provided a letter of support to Cheque Centres Ltd it would continue to meet its liabilities until 31 December 2017
Does this sound positive Sara I’m assuming it means they will still pay out refunds for now. I have a current complaint at adjudicator level with them they denied ever having lent to me (!) despite years of cheque loans..finally found records of just a few loans on their systems i have put in a SAR too now. Then i found 2 hard copy loan agreements from 2011 while packing to move, CC had agreed to settle these 2 loans as an interim measure while still considering the rest of my complaint seperately. They told my adjudicator they would refund me £273 on 31/08 one day b4 this news i hope that still materializes!!!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it doesn’t sound negative, but there’s really not much point in speculating about this.
Kelly says
Hi I have received the response below from safety net which seems fair enough. It states that they will not take any further payments or apply interest until my complaint is investigated
Should I still cancel the cpa or take this as the truth
We are sorry to learn that you have been dissatisfied with a part of our service and will be conducting a thorough investigation into your complaint.
You should expect a final response within a time period of 4 weeks from today. In some cases this period can be extended to 8 weeks, for example if it takes a little longer than anticipated to gather all the required information. In such circumstances where an extension is necessary, you will be informed via e-mail.
We can confirm that no automatic repayments will be attempted for the duration of your complaint investigation. We can also confirm that no further interest will accrue on your outstanding balance.
If you remain unhappy with our final response, you have the option to refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service, so long as you do this within six months of the date of our final response. Within the final response we will enclose a leaflet providing contact details and information about their service as well as how you can complain.
Acee says
I wouldn’t trust them Kelly I’m in the same position they added £107 interest in July then offered to reduce it by £80 as a goodwill gesture for my irresponsible lending claim despite having 17 loans with them in 6 months told them where to stick it. I’ve changed bank accounts so they can’t take any money out.
Linda says
I cancelled my CPA as well l, like Kelly says better to be safe than sorry. They told me id receive a response by 24th August (after 4 weeks) which has now been extended to the full 8 weeks which was disappointing. I’m just more comfortable knowing they’re not going to dip into my bank and take payments whilst investigating
Acee says
Had an email at 9pm last night from Myjar assuming it’s a generic email to all complaints due to the time. They are unable to give me a final response yet (5 weeks) but will by 8 weeks that’s WDA PDUK and Wonga said the same they must all be inundated. I’ve even took the week off work at the 8 week stage so I can spend it sending the complaints to the Ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s pretty quick to send a complaint to the Ombudsman!
Acee says
Thanks Sara that’s good then I’ll just make sure I’ve got all bank statements ready and all my info dates etc sorted to give me the best chance and a true picture of my Lending over the last 5 year or so. On my second DMP at the moment thankfully I’ve kicked the gambling habit it was never an addiction I just gambled because I was skint.
Kate says
Hi Acee I received a final response from My jar this morning upholding my complaint and refunding interest/charges on all 18 loans, it took around 7 weeks for them to reply. Hope you get success with yours.
Acee says
Hi Kate thanks well done hopefully I get the same result I currently owe them £1900 so hoping they wipe a big chunk of that off it seems easier if you still owe them money as they seem more happy to wipe money off than pay money back.
AK says
Not always, they only partially upheld my complaint, at first even said no. They only refunded interest on the last outstanding loan, deducted my payments from principal and expect me to pay them £800 from original £1500. I didn’t accept , send them a message to reconsider and refund the interest on all 3 loans, but haven’t heard from them for yet. And £800 in theory was their final answer. If I don’t hear from them shortly I’ll go to FOS.
Acee says
AK I suppose each case is different I was just talking in general terms – for e.g it’s easier for them to say we will wipe £400 off your outstanding balance than to say yeah we will send you a £400 refund when you no longer have a loan with them.
AK says
I received an email from Myjar today, they refunded the interest on second loan therefore the outstanding balance on last loan is c. £300 instead of £800 as in their previous final offer. Most likely I’ll accept. It’s my first offer, all together I send 15 complaints. So far one is definite no on one and only loan from MrLender where total interest I paid was £48 and partial refund on 2 of 3 loans from Myjar. These loans are recent from 2016, my biggest hope is for Wonga, PaydayUK and QQ from 2010 onward. There we talking of thousands of paid interest. But as we all know they are the most difficult to deal with.
Kate says
Yes I still owed them £220 from 2014 and they wiped that and are refunding me just short of £800
Ian w says
Hi debt camel.
Writing on behalf of my wife who is currently making a considerable claim against cheque centre.
After seeing your website and using your template letters, she started her claim against them 7 weeks ago.
She received a prompt response that they would be using the 8 weeks for their investigation, and after four weeks, recieved a letter just saying they were 4 weeks into their investigation, and we should hear back within the next 4 weeks.
All good so far.
The worry now though, is that on hearing that the company has entered liquidation, will her claim be ignored? Also, due to the owning company saying they will undertake all financial liabilities until Dec 2017, if they offer a stupidly low amount, should we accept that? Or still take it to the ombudsmen? We have seen that the ombudsmen can take some time to come to a final answer, and if this fall’s beyond their Dec 2017 deadline that they have set out, would that be the claim ended with no result?
Just a little concerned that this new liquidation news could really throw a spanner in the works.
We will wait till next week when the 8 weeks is up, to see if they are going to make an offer of settlement.
Nervous times..
Thanks for any help on this.
Ian.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I understand why you are nervous but all you can do is see this through and see what happens. People have received refunds from other firms in administration. Come back and ask if you are offered a “stupidly low amount”.
Maureen says
I’ve got a current complaint with the ombudsman regarding cheque centre so I’ve just rang then to see where that leaves me. They know about it and are about to go in to discussion with the administrators and once they know more they will write and let us know where we stand! I suppose the more complaints companies receive and have to pay out, there is a chance it can make them go into administration but a chance we take I suppose. It was one of my largest but still got Quickquid and payday uk too and I doubt they are going anywhere soon! Let’s just sit this out and it could be ok, they have a parent company to fall back on for funds
Maureen says
As an afterthought, I think the FOS know the situation, hence why they only recently decided to deal with loans within 6 years separately to over 6 years…..I think they are doing what they can to get us some sort of payment knowing that the loans over 6 years will probably be a no go but we will see.
NGill says
Hi All,
I am currently 5 weeks into the 8 week period and I have got around 9 complaints that are still active for payday loans (SNC and Mr Lender have both settled).
However this time last year I also took our 3 loans (On Stride, Ocean & Sunny) and I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with Sunny and On Stride.
Sunny – Took out a loan with them last november and within 3 months I ran into trouble. I looked at my bank statements and it would have shown that even without payday lenders, the monthly payment of £353 pm would have meant that with all other commitments my salary would not cover my outgoings. I also had a horrendous gambling problem and ALL my statements show this.
In June they offered me the chance to ‘settle my loan’ for 50% reduction on the balance which was available to me until 28th June, however they issued a default notice for the whole sum on 26th June which I couldn’t work out. In any case, I borrowed the money and managed to pay the whole sum off but as this is only one loan based on the above do I have a reasonable case with the FOS? (They have given me a final response rejecting my complaint when all I asked for was all adverse marks be removed, whereas now I’ll pursue for the interest as well)
On Stride are a bit different, I am currently up to date with their payments, however with them I had a 1k loan which after 5 months I completely paid off and then reloaned for another 2.5k on the same day which they accepted. They also entered me into an Arrangement to Pay without any advice on how it would impact my credit rating and I only found out when I checked my credit file. I haven’t seen On Stride mentioned much on this forum so I am in the middle of my complaint with them and wondered if anyone has experience dealing with
Steph says
My complaint against QuickQuid was referred to ombudsman stage 6 weeks ago (as QuickQuid disagreed with the adjudicator decision). Just called the FOS for an update and apparently they have 700 cases waiting for ombudsman allocation…. not able to give me a timeframe of when it may be allocated.
Good luck everyone!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
700 QQ cases? 700 payday loan cases? or 700 cases across the whole of the FOS including PPI?
Steph says
No! Apologies. 700 cases in total, not just QQ. I would assume 700 in total.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have 209 Ombudsmen, so that doesn’t sound too bad…
Steph says
209!! Wow! Maybe I shouldn’t worry too much then.
ccfcnath says
Hi
Thankyou for you template I have sent emails the lenders: sunny, safetynetcredit, satsuma, nextcredit, myjar, piggybank and wonga. I assume that I didnt need to write about the 8 week deadline? and that these companies will already know about that? Really hoping to hear back soon!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Quite right, no need to tell them what they already know!
Do you have loans from any of them at the moment?
ccfcnath says
Yes I still have oustanding loans with all but myjar and wonga which i have paid off. I have stated in emails to stop collections whilst my claim is investigated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You also need to cancel the CPAs with your bank – you can’t rely on the payday lenders not taking the money and leaving you without enough unless you borrow again.
ccfcnath says
Yes they are all under repayment plans so that should clearly show the lender that these loans were not affordable!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good, well it’s best to continue with the repayment plan unless it is unaffordable.
Adam says
Hi Sara
I had a number of different pay day loans during 2016, often borrowing from other lenders to pay existing loans, until it culminated in me having to borrow money from my parents to pay everything off. I never missed a payment as I didn’t want to get defaults on my credit report but appreciate it will look bad enough as it is with pay day loans on there.
Will the fact I never missed a payment, and sometimes paid early, hamper my claim?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, lots of people have won cases never having missed a payment. But what will matter is whether you borrowed from the same firm repeatedly. It is much easier to win complaints if you used 2 firms 6 times than if you used 6 firms twice.
Adam says
Thanks. In 2015/2016 I had 10 loans with QQ, 12 with Wonga, 13 with Sunny, 2 with Peachy, 1 Lending Stream, ? Piggy Bank, ? Satsuma, 1 with 118118 – so it’s unlikely i’d be able to get anything back from Peachy, Lending Stream etc, even though I was paying the other loans back at the time?
I also have concerns that I was gambling at the time but having read your other pages it seems that I could still have a case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you start by putting in complaints to QQ, Wonga and Sunny. See how they go and think about the others later. Unless you still have a balance on any of the loans – definitely complain about any you do, even if there was only 1 loan, as they may remove the interest from the outstanding amount.
Adam says
I emailed all the companies 3 weeks ago to find out how many loans I had, or if I already knew, to complain. QQ the only company that haven’t even acknowledged the email. Judging by everybody elses comments, it seems as though they are the most difficult to deal with. The only companies I still have loans with are Sunny and 118118. If I contact Sunny to ask them to freeze the interest on the loan until they have completed the investigation, will they pass it on to a debt collection agency? I don’t want anything negative to go on my credit report. Thanks.
Ty says
So an update.
I have word back from Cheque Centre,Money Shop and 24/7 Moneybox
Both upheld my complaints. Cheque Centre £800 Back minus balance still owed so £50…seems after I read the above message I had better accept.
Money Shop £500 Back minus balance owed so £300
24/7 write balance off and removal from credit file. Only £90. I’m happy with these. The main thing is removal from credit file.
Onto my mother…who cashed cheques at:
H&T – sent statement,rolled over every month for 16 months £650 Cheque value while only getting benefit of £700-750
Ramsdens – Email sent regarding Statement of Account so waiting…
Albermarle and Bond £600 and Herbert Brown £750 left owing. These cheques were cashed concurrently with the ones above so a total liability of £1500+ per month on benefits of £700-£750
I’m currently going through all this with her permission, do you think she has a case with these? Even though a Cheque Guarantee Card was used?
One final thing, the Albermarle and Herbert loans are sent to the same email for complaints. They tell me there is no record of the borrowing….although there is an outstanding balance of £900 on the Albermarle one alone (they seem to have found that okay) any advice there?
Thanks for reading and good luck.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A cheque guarantee card is irrelevant – if it was unaffordable lending (she couldn’t repay without borrowing more) then the lender should not have carried on giving her the loans.
LG says
So this came from Cash Genie – any advice please?:
Hi ****,
Thank you for your email.
I have noted that you feel that you were unable to afford the loans Cash Genie sold to you. I have therefore requested your affordability data (this also contains a statement of account) from the IT specialist who can extract this information from the Cash Genie database. This may take around 3-4 weeks as there is currently a backlog of data requests. However, if you believe that you are due redress, please tell me why? I will then be able to look into this for you.
With regards to your credit file, RSM carried out a one-off exercise to remove any negative information about all Cash Genie clients’ loans in April 2016. They are unable to do anything further in relation to this.
You have also requested that Cash Genie write off your loan. However, as you advised this has been sold to Motor Mile and therefore if you wish to discuss your account, you will need to contact Motormile Finance UK Limited… Please note that any debt that is still outstanding, will now be payable to Motor Mile.
I will contact you again in due course once I receive your data from the Cash Genie database.
Kind regards,
Cash Genie
Trading name of Ariste Holding Ltd in liquidation
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you haven’t already sent a step 2 complaint, send one now, even if is a bit vague. Also reply that you want them to consider the debt that has been sold as well, as it was Cash Genie that gave you the unaffordable loan.
If you haven’t told MMF the loan is in dispute with cash genie, do so asap.
LG says
Hi Sara,
This was the response I received from them after I sent the step 2 complaint.
MMF have been made aware that the amount is in dispute… I will reply back and explain i want that amount o be considered too.
On the plus side, both My Jar and Mr lender have agreed to remove loans from my credit file once the original amount borrowed has been repaid (all fees and interest have been removed – as it was only one loan each I think that’s fair?
Adam says
Hi all,
I’ve had 17 loans between June 11 and July 14, three separate spells of consecutive lending with Wonga. I fancy my chances with this because they really should have seen the consistent applications as being probably unaffordable and that I was struggling. Also, the amount borrowed almost every time. Not that it matters but the only reason I managed to escape was annual bonuses and eventually leaving for a well paid job in London.
I wanted to ask if anyone tried adding the 8% statutory interest and if they had any luck? I have included this in my complaint to Wonga and am currently waiting to hear back. Fingers crossed!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Wonga normally add on 8% to refunds which they offer
Michael Chadwick says
If quick quid make an offer, is it usually way below what you should expect? I have been offered 2.1k from qq AND p2p as a joint offer (cash euronet). My calculations suggested theu owed me around 2k from qq alone. I am worried if i accept i am selling myself short and maybe i have done the math wrong?
Thanks
The Hitman says
Disappointing day as I expected some results as today is the final day. So the following are going straight to the FO
Wonga
Sunny
Payday express
247 Moneybox (these haven’t even sent me my statement of accounts yet)
And Lending stream that’s in progress already with the FO.
Frustrating, but onto the next stage.
Does anyone have similar issues?
Shannon says
Pretty much same for me. Settled with two lenders direct in the 8 weeks. Five others went to the FO. I was prepared at the beginning of all this that it wasn’t going to be short so I’m quite happy to wait.
Sasha patu says
247 moneybox haven’t done a thing eventually got through to them on the phone today yesterday was on hold for 55 mins today 27 but they answered said my final response should be sent today so we shall see. Payday express got back to me yesterday at 3pm was my last day of the 8 week made an offer on 1 loan as the rest were 6 years old. Wonga answered some weeks ago stating the six-year rule so i sent straight to the ombudsman who have now forwarded to the jurisdiction team as it was from 2010 and have to decide whether they can deal with it being over six years.
The Hitman says
247 moneybox is a joke. I received an email within the few 2 weeks of my first complaint with an offer to remove the outstanding balance of £130 which was from 4 year ago. I replied asking for a statement of accounts so I can make a true judgement. During the past 8 weeks I’ve called them many times, eventually getting in touch with someone who told me verbally the figures, but said I’ll get an email…..that was a few weeks ago. Over 8 weeks now and I’m still waiting for the statement. I know for a fact I’m owed around 1.5k.
Cat says
I just got this email from payday uk. How would I deal with this?…
Many thanks for your recent contact.
This account currently has no sums due or payable. Therefore, we have no current obligation to provide a statement of account under Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act as per Subsection (3) of Section 77 which states that the requirement under “Subsection (1) does not apply to – (a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become payable by the debtor.”
Phil says
PaydayUK are awful and seem to try this trick with a few people I know who are attempting refunds / commenting in this thread. They did the same to me. Progress with step 2 template and if possible go through your bank statements for the months / years you were using them to try to get an idea of how many loans you have and how much interest you paid them. I don’t believe they need this information (They will have all your loans etc on record) however it does give you a handy insight into how much interest you should be due, to compare to any offers they do make.
After I sent the second template in step 2, I got no response until 4 weeks after my initial email, which was them explaining to me that the investigation is taking longer than expected, but they WILL (Their words) have this completed withint the 8 week timeframe. On week 6 at the minute.
GMA says
Latest update from me, One Month Loan final response
‘As a gesture of goodwill, we will repay the difference between what you borrowed (£525) and what you repaid (£2013.40) which is £1488.40 and will refund this to your chosen bank account.’
I only had one loan so wasn’t hopeful, money landed yesterday after receiving this on the 29th Aug. Safety Net and Money Shop are with the FOS and am waiting for Provident to respond with final offer and Liquid advance to respond at all!
Sasha patu says
Was my 8 weeks deadline yesterday on all complaints
myjar paid all interest and charges in full. I had worked it out to be 1050 but they paid 1322 I obviously worked something out wrong! Was in my bank yesterday afternoon. They did wait to the very last day though as did payday express and paydayuk still awaiting satsuma loans has anyone had any success with them they said they need an extra 2 weeks.
Wonga and quick quid is with ombudsman already received an email from ombudsman yesterday saying wonga is now with the jurisdiction team as it was over 6 years old and Wonga isn’t complying with old loans so don’t know if i will get success here i had 13 loans in 8 month period with them last loan partially wiped in their redress but doesn’t nearly meet all my charges. I’m presuming im going to get an email about qq along the same lines
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest sending Satsuma to the Ombudsman.
Sasha patu says
So how does it work with cash genie beinng in administration i contacted who answered 6 weeks ago to say they have requested the affordability data was meant to take 3/4 weeks but said they have a back log.
I had maybe 12/15 loans with them in a 2 year period constant roll overs and extra charges from what i remember last loan was a 200 loan went on a payment plan that never seemed to decrease due to the monthly charge then they wiped that eventually but the charges on that alone wpuld of been much more than the write off of loan. Will the administrators look at all loans etc anyone had any luck here with them? Id like to thank you for this site ive had a good 2500 pay out so far my mayernity is just coming to the end of being paid soni get to enjoy the last 13 weeks now able to take them off as i have got this money to cover me i may of had to go back early if not for this site. To know that a point in life that was a struggle a few years ago im a way has helped me positively now i have to thank you for making me aware and making it so easy to do the process.
April says
Hi Sasha,
I had some luck with Cash Genie a couple of months ago. They refunded me all of the interest I had paid on each loan with them. As well as the 8% interest.
They advised that RSM would most me a cheque, when they did their monthly cheque run. I received this within about 5 weeks of the complaint being settled. Really friendly and easy to deal with
LG says
Hi, me again !!
I am having serious issues with 1st Stop Loans.
I borrowed from them repeatedly between October / February 2013/2014 – I paid back my last loan to find they had stopped doing all payday loans – so stupidly as i had paid them most of my wage in order to pay my rent and food I did an indemnity through the bank to recover all funds paid to them.
I have on multiple occasions offered payment plans which were declined as they wanted FULL payment (£1327 – although I only borrowed £750 total) – anyway, as they refused a payment plan and I then moved they have since got a CCJ against me !!
I sent off a complaint on the 23rd august to their complaints email address but received nothing since. I have however heard from TM Legal Services who work for them and they are threatening an attachment of earning for the CCJ – i have explained I have a complaint pending but they say that 1st stop haven’t received this, so i have copied in TM legal services and all available email addresses I can find for 1st stop into the same email and sent it again (with the date on from my first email)
Any advice?
Paul Smith says
LG,
I only had one load with 1st stop, but like you they refused to accept a payment plan through stepchange and were very difficult when I tried to get statement of accounts from them.
I included all this in my complaint to the FOS. I heard back from an adjudicator today to say that although they couldn’t uphold my complaint for irresponsible lending (because I’d only taken one loan) they recommend that 1st stop pay me £100 compensation for their poor handling of my account and poor customer service.
So make sure you keep copies of emails and send it all to the FOS when you make your complaint.
Hope that helps!
Harry Iqbal says
Hi Sara hope your well had my response from wonga they saying I had a total of 10 loans with them which they are willing to refund 7 the total figure of £1947.05 plus the 8% of £572.70 total settlement of £2519.75 is this the figure I get after they taken tax out this is what he said to me over the phone also there are 3 loans which they are saying was lent to me properly is it worth chasing these as 2 was small and 1 was for £500 am more than happy with this offer also they said they would request the redress loans to be moved from my credit file so you think this is fair offer also guys anyone who had experience dealing with wonga thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t tell if they have quoted you figure before or after tax. It would make a difference of about £120.
If two of the other three loans were small and you are happy with offer, I think you have answered your own question!
Ben says
Hi Sara,
Been following the website for about 3 weeks now and am amazed at the amount of people in the same situation as myself. I have sent complaints to Wonga (exactly 90 loans Inc. Top-ups over 42 months – Total borrowed: £11,369.00 & Total interest: £2,642.26), Lending Stream (13 Loans over 18 months – Total borrowed: £2,320.00 & Total interest: £2,693.40) & QQ ( 20 Loans over 20 months – Total borrowed: £2,968.50 & Total interest: £2,887.75). Sent complaints to each of the 3 PDL companies about 10 days ago, and have subsequently made an official complaint to the FOS regarding Lending Stream. They replied to my complaint the same as many others here, stating that their loans were affordable etc.
Wonga I am still yet to receive even an acknowledgement. And have today received a reply from Quickquid requesting the following information to review my case; Bank statements from the times I held loans with them, pay slips from the times I held loans & finally any additional information relating to my financial circumstances at the time I held loans with them.
Do I send the above information? I haven’t seen this requested from anyone else… and to be honest would probably struggle to acquire anything other than bank statements.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t have to send this information to QQ – you can just ask them to consider your case on the basis of what they already know, as borrowing 20 times from them in a short period should have suggested to them that you were in difficulty and it was responsible to continue to lend. You could add that you will be happy to send your bank statements to the Financial Ombudsman if they ask for them.
As your bank statements will show your income, there isn’t much point in supplying payslips as well! I think they mainly ask for these to be difficult and hope that some people will just give up on their complaints.
AK says
After sending Myjar an email with counter-offer to the their ‘final’ offer they send me final-final offer and refunded the interest on my second loan. Even I tempted to send them counter-counter offer to refund the interest on first loan I think I’ll accept. My outstanding balance will be £300. Not the ideal situation but better than £1400 in first no answer. Saves time and nerves on FOS investigation.
Mel says
Hi,
Mr lender have recently agreed to clear the outstanding balance and remove the loan from my credit history.
Wonga and wageday advance have sent me a final response advising that only one or 2 of the loans I received were unaffordable. (There were about 30 loans with wageday and more with wonga)
Is it worth referring my case with wonga and wageday to the Ombudsman Do you think? Or should I respond to the final response first? It seems odd to say only a couple of the loans were unaffordable but not sure if that’s a coming thing
Dave says
Refer it.
They’ll be hoping you take a quick payout without referring it.
Kelly says
Good evening has anyone dealt with piggy bank I have contacted all my other lenders regarding my loans and inability to keep up due to basically living from loan to loan over the last two years all of the others have responded agreed to take smaller payments whilst investigating my complaint I have heard nothing from piggy bank I have cancelled the cpa with the bank and informed them via email and asked for an alternative payment method so that I can at least pay something get the feeling they are going to be difficult!?
Cat says
They were one of the first to respond to mine and with a decent offer.
Harry Iqbal says
They hard to tell they told me I want entitled to anything but after sending another email breaking down asking for £359 but came back and gave me £320 which was great to be fair so I guess you just have to wait
Xenedra says
Anyone had any joy with Lending stream? I had some loans and currently have 3 outstanding!! that are in my DMP!!
They emailed back and said that I had a credit score over 570 so wouldn’t be doing anything!!
I have replied asking them to reconsider owing to the ‘real life’ situation rather than an really ambitious credit score!?!
They also said that they offered me a payment holiday and that was good enough. The three outstanding loans are at about £600 each atm when the original borrowed were £200 – £250 so they haven’t even frozen interest or charges…need some success with this please and this is out of control!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send your affordability complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.
How long has your DMP been running? Is it through a firm or are you doing it yourself?
Xenedra says
DMP is only one month in and its with StepChange
Philip says
I need some advice on what I should do, my situation is different but I do not know whether I should send it off to the ombudsmen or not because Wonga/QQ and Sunny all came back claiming that they lent responsibly.
Quick explanation in my situation
From 2012 September to 2016 September, I lent from Wonga payday (28th to 28th) to payday an average of £189 each month. (48 Loans in Total)
From 2016 January to 2016 September, I lent from QuickQuid payday (28th to 28th) to payday an average of €185 each month. (10 Loans in Total)
From 2014 December to 2017 June, I lent from Sunny payday (28th to 28th) to payday an average of £350 each month. (Total 30 Loans)
On top of this, I got a 118118 Loan in 2016 June for €1700. I was living within a payday loan for the duration and I am wondering if it’s a case that could be considered?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send all the Wonga, QQ and Sunny complaints to the Ombudsman – they were all borrowing over a long period. Lenders often refuse good cases so don’t be put off!
A single loan case against 118 is harder but people have won these. You will have to show that 118 should have known from your credit record and application that you couldn’t afford the loan. So recent defaults or missed payments support this. And if your application doesn’t seem to match what your credit record showed (perhaps you didn’t list all your debts?) that should have been a reason for 118 to look more closely, not just hand out the money.
Dave says
Hi Phillip
My situation was very similar to yours. Payday loans with Wonga and Sunny over 2.5 year period. About 1.5 years into this I got a 118 loan and then after 6 months i got a top up loan from them.
I complained to them saying I should not have had either loan as I had payday loans, credit cards and a high OD. They agreed and refunded all paid interest reducing what I still owe on my DMP. This was with no missed or late payments to them or to my PDL companies.
My advice is same as Sara’s. Put in the complaint as you have nothing to lose by doing it. Only everything to gain if they agree they should have done more checks. I found 118 to be very good responding to me and keeping me up dated with their investigation.
CharlieP says
Hi All,
I have sent a complaint to QQ, I still owe them money which I cancelled the payment after sending the letter…was this the right thing to do? They are now calling me everyday, I haven’t answered yet but didn’t know if I should speak to them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is good to offer a monthly payment that you can afford… this doesn’t harm your case as any payments you make at this point basically get refunded if your complaint is upheld.
Mark says
Hi, I am in the same boat with QQ, I sent a complaint letter and then cancelled the CPA for the active loan I had, I waited until they tried to contact me and then Emailed them stating I could not afford the repayment and that I had lodged a complaint. I asked them to freeze interest and charges until my complaint had been investigated which they refused, I then offered to set up a repayment plan to which they asked for income and expenditure, I haven’t sent it yet but will do in the next few days.
After some investigation I heard that QQ will normally just hound you for payment for a few months and then sell the debt, I’m hoping my complaint and refund will be sorted before then but I’m not holding my breath. Good luck
Amy says
Hello – I am wondering if anyone has had any recent offers from QQ/Payday UK that are at adjudicator level for over 6 years ago.
I have been offered £1480 from QQ for loans under 6 years but rejected this offer and have now sent to FO to try and get my refunds for all loans including over 6 years.
I had no offer from PDUK as all loans are over 6 years ago – FO wrote to me last week saying they would be in touch within four weeks with an outcome.
Any info would help!
Amy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
QQ are being difficult about loans over 6 years – how many of your loans are that old?
PDUK are paying out on older loans, so you may well get a result more quickly on this one.
Amy says
Thank you so much for that information!!
For Quick quid its around 7 loans plus extensions and top ups which are over 6 years old.
Although The total they offered me for the loans under 6 years old was not correct to my calculations – the offer I was expecting for the loans under 6 years was just over £2540 (without the 8% fee)
The full offer should be around £2800 (without the 8% fee)
Do you think its worth holding out?
Amy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the older than 6 year loans would only add 2800 – 2540 to your refund?
That’s not a lot, it’s up to you if you want to wait. I am optimistic that something will happen soon in these cases, but I have no inside information on this.
But there is a very large difference between 2540 + 8% and their offer of 1480. You could replay that you would accept a full refund of the under 6 years loans plus 8% and detail what you think this would be?
Amy says
Yes that’s a great idea – ill write to them.
In my final response letter they gave a list of loans they were upholding so I am guessing some of the loans have have been rejected as a refund.
They also refused to give me my credit file so I am unable to see what loans have been paid and what haven’t as they just gave me the loan number not the amount (I only have the date and amount of loan on my own record).
Thank you again
Amy
AK says
Amy, you can receive all your Qq loans’ statements via online chat on their website. I did it few days ago and received all 13 statements while still chatting to the agent. I didn’t even explain why I need statements.
Nav says
Hi! I’ve put a complaint through with Satsuma (I’ve only have a loan with them since June so not very long!) I received an email today from them stating:
“Following a review of your complaint I would like to request any information you wish to provide in support of your claim for me to review. Please provide this information within the next five working days.”
Should I send them anything? If so, what exactly?
Thank you in advance!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could send them a copy of your credit report (free from Noddle) if it shows recent defaults and missed payments before they gave you the loan? Otherwise just reply that you would like them to consider your complaint as it stands and you will provide any further information to the Ombudsman.
Chris says
Just had a reply from my adjudiactor today. He had told loans at home to pay interest and 8% on 7 out of 9 loans, with loans at home.
They have disagreed and its off to the ombusman for review.
Just wondering what peoples experience has been with them, how long do they normally take. I have heard anything up to 18 months!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
18 months! That’s only for people who got mixed up in the payday loans over 6 years old very early on before the FOS had decided what to do about them. 2-4 months is a more normal time at the moment (see the next comment – c.3 months for a Wonga complaint) although some cases do seem to get stuck.
Chris says
I thought that seemed a very long time
Just in time for Christmas then hopefully!!!
Thanks
Head in hands says
Good news ?? (Also for people wanting an idea on times)
Just an update from my Wonga complaint:
Complaint sent to Wonga 8th Feb
Acknowledged 13th Feb
No response from Wonga and wanted more time so Submitted to FOS 21st March
Wonga Offered refund on 1 loan of £1096 10th April – I declined
Adjudicator advised full refund 10th May – Wonga did not respond
Ombudsman ruled full refund 22nd August
Received email today from Wonga £2334 less tax in my bank in next 3/5 days
Payday Uk and Payday Express both paid at Adjudicator stage.
Lending Stream & Quick Quid both disagreed with adjudicators ruling of all but one loan should be refunded so in queue for Ombudsman, in for a long wait but potentially over £10k in interest and charges in these 2 so being patient. All loans within 6 years. Initial offer in March from LS of over £1600 declined and nothing since. 3 offers so far from QQ all declined.
Again thank you to Sara and everyone for your help, yes it can take time but it’s worth it for the refunds and the rebuilding of credit files – No more dark times! ?
steve says
Hi,
I have received this response form lending steam with regards to payday loans
Resolution:
In view of the overall situation, we confirm that the affordability checks were performed with due consideration while approving your loans.
With the above being said, we would like to inform you that Lending Stream never retreat in extending their support and ensures that we provide appropriate help, whenever required. If you wish to deal with us directly we offer to set up an affordable payment arrangement on all the outstanding loans.
Further, we are ready to extend our support in clearing the debt and offer to waive all the interest and charges incurred on the oustanding loans and are ready to accept the remaining principal balance (Borrowed amount – Paid amount). The total waivable amount on the outstanding loans in total would be £297.40.
Hence, the remaining balances on the outstanding loans would be £30.80, £34.80 and £45.38 respectively.
I am wondering if its worth taking it any further as although they state the loans were affordable etc they are willing to waive the interest does this mean they may be a case to take it further?
Lee says
I had same wording offered to waive remaining amount which was £98. I declined as 28 loans were taken out. Refer to adjudicator now. Lending stream are not doing you any favour. They are just hoping you give up and settle thinking got a little cash back.
T B says
Hi,
I have today sent emails to Wonga, Lending Stream, Money Boat, Mr Lender and My Jar.
How long should I wait for a response from each please? First time emailing all apart from Wonga who I emailed a few months back but received no reply.
T
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you just asked for a list of loans or put in a full complaint? What did you email to Wonga a few months ago say?
T B says
I have put in full complaints to all – I was able to obtain my loan history previously. I used the template above (obviously amended to my situation) to send to Wonga a few months ago but didn’t receive a response and haven’t even received an acknowledge from them for this one – although all the others have acknowledged the complaint.
T
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case you can send the complaint straight to the Ombudsman – don’t send Wonga another one!
Lucia says
Hi All, so finally, after numerous delays from 24/7 Moneybox, the FOS Ombudsman as agreed with the initial adjudicator and upheld my complaint. 24/7 have been dreadful, failing to provide a file until the adjudicator sent his decision, which meant he had to review it again. Then they refused the outcome right on deadline day. Anyway, they have my bank detail, does anyone know roughly how long I can expect to wait for refund?
Darren says
Hi lucia, can I ask how long your 247 moneybox complaint has taken? I have just been assessed by an adjudicator for all loans against them totalling almost £4k back plus interest. I know for a fact they will refuse this and send it to the ombudsman. 247 have by far been the worst to deal with.
Lucia says
I complained to them on 9th March, the were fairly quick in responding then but once it went to the FOS (23rd March) they took for ever. The had no contact with the FOS until my complaint was upheld. They then decided to supply the requested info which meant it had to be reviewed again. Outcome was the same, but the wouldn’t pay up, so it went to the Ombudsman on the 12th July. I got a decision form the Ombudsman on Friday. I have been ringing and emailing 24/7 daily as they don’t respond to anything and end up holding for ever. Finally got through today to a very rude man who said I needed to update my card details online! I said what for!? I want a refund, I’m not making a payment. I asked how long my payment would take and he said he couldn’t tell me, but its being dealt with. Good luck!! Oh and their director/compliance/complaints manager is Mark Hannay according to the FCA register. However, he responds to nothing.
Darren says
Thanks for getting back to me :) I made my complaint end of march and sent to the FCA end of may. it got taken up by the adjudicator a few weeks ago and they have till next week to accept/reject.
I received a text and email and automated phonecall to apply for a loan last week, emailed them and within 5 mins emailed back saying I was now off the marketing list. I have tried calling numerous times for an update but always get to about 10 mins on hold then give up :(
Lucia says
No probs… Same – I’d been calling everyday with no answer. I rang at about 9:15am today and got through after about 5 minutes. They are the worst I’ve dealt with, and the smallest amount owed!
Wynthorpe says
Had 19 loans from Wonga starting 24/07/2010 running every month until 27/03/2012, The Interest on the loans was £2500 and i put a complaint in, I had many other payday loans and maxed out credit cards at the time.
Just got an email saying they will only uphold 1 of the 19 loans (seems random as it was the third form last lone) and an offer of £134, ive put a complaint in straight to the FOS, id of settled for around £1500 but to me they just seem to be taking the mick.
M M says
I got the following reply from QQ after sending them what I think I am owed. Other problem is most are over six years old.
To help us reach a fair complaint outcome in a timely manner (and where appropriate provide an offer of redress), please provide us with the following information as soon as possible:
• Bank statements (at the point/s you took out your loan/s with us)
• Payslips (at the point/s you took out your loan/s with us)
• Any additional information relating to your financial circumstances (at the point you took out your loan/s with us)
Do I have to give them this info or is there some other way I can challenge? I know I will not have payslips for such a long period even if I can scrabble together some bank statements? Also I had two defaults in 2008 but they have since dropped off. Any chance on how I can get proof that I had these, to strengthen my case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell QQ to consider your complaint as it stands. As soon as they reject it, send it to the Ombudsman.
You are wasting your time talking to QQ about loans over 6 years old – only the FOS has a chance of getting you a refund for these.
There is also no need to send payslips – bank statements will show your income. QQ are just trying to make the process seem difficult so people will give up.
Defaults in 2008 – do you have any letters? Emails? If you don’t then there is no proof. But I wouldn’t worry about this. Payday UK has agreed to pay out on these old loans with this sort of evidence.
M M says
Equifax have an archive of all reports I have ordered in the last six years. I ordered one in 2014 which shows I got a default in 2008 so I have downloaded and saved the report as a pdf.
In any case I do think I have the payslips and bank statements to hand but you recommend telling them to consider as it stands? Least that way, I will have them ready for the ombundsman I guess and not wasted 8 weeks in the process.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think you will get anywhere with the loans over 6 years but if you have the info and want to try, why not?
Shellbell says
What’s peoples experiences like with ferratum?
Ross says
Hi Shellbell,
Ferratum were very good with me and everything was sorted within 48 hours. They used all of the interest I paid, on the few loans I had with them, to pay off the current loan I had with them. This left a balance of around £280, which they wrote off as a ‘goodwill gesture’. They were very polite, non-condescending and just wanted to sort my complaint. I was extremely pleased and impressed with them.
Tom W says
I’ve been told to bog off by Peachy and MyJar. my lending history probably does not fit in a neat box. Between 2012 and the end of 2014 I had multiple loans with wonga and PDUK which are going to be straightforward. However from that point until a few months ago, there are two complicating factors, i think. first i managed to get guarantor loans which meant there were periods when no payday loans were being taken out, but i still had very high levels of debt. Second i didn’t stick with one lender, there are about 5. using myjar as an example:
· 1 x 1 month loans 16/11/14 £100 loan/£20 interest. other credit commitments of £600/£700 per month, plus one other current PD loan with wonga and a loads of rolled over ones.
· 1 x 3 months’ loan 27/10/15 £700/542 same story as above
· 2 x 6 months’ loans i havent been sent a statement and noemail, but both would have been 2016 and similar amounts to the one above. general debt would have been closer to £1k per month but not sure about other PD loans. likely there would have been recent at least.
· 1 x 12 months’ loan march’17, £1200, ‘only’ paid £300 interest as unexpected windfall allowed me to pay off early. general debt by this point was more like £1500 a month, and at least 2 other open PD loans
do i have a case here at all? accept that maybe not on the 1st one. Peachy gave similar response saying they only looked at PD loans and took no other borrowing into account
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Peachy gave similar response saying they only looked at PD loans and took no other borrowing into account” this argument makes no sense at all – ignore it.
Using several lenders and having large gaps does make for difficult complaints. But all your borrowing was recent, so the lenders should have been looking at your credit record and noticing other loans eg guarantor loans. I suggest keeping your expectations low but sending the cases to the Ombudsman to look at.
Tom W says
Thanks Sara, because I complained about every lender at once I will go to the ombudsman all at once. will i get the same person dealing with them if i do this? i think this would be hugely beneficial for my set of circumstance if so.
also both peachy and myjar said i stated finances were x,y & z i was good for the money, but lets just say i was economical with truth due to desperation, how does ombudsman look upon this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send the cases to the adjudicator as soon as they are rejected – don’t wait. As soon as one is picked up, ask if the adjudicator can pick up any of the others – sometimes they will, sometimes they won’t.
Having the same adjudicator won’t be as much help as you think though – they have to establish the loans were unaffordable for you AND the lender should have known. One adjudicator may reach different decisions for different lenders. Also with difficult cases having the same adjudicator for them all is putting all your eggs in one basket.
Economicial with the truth – again this matters less if you borrowed consistently from the same lender – the first couple of times the lender can reasonably have relied on what you said – but if you carried on borrowing, they should have realised something was wrong. BUT if what you said in your application about other debts contradicted what your credit record said, they should have spotted that.
AK says
I started to take payday loans in July 2010. The very first loan was from Payday UK, then in November Wonga came into the picture, then Lending Stream and Quickquid in the beginning of 2011. Could you, please, tell me which ones are refunding interest on the loans older than 6 years.
Lucia says
Hi AK, PDUK settled on loans over 6 years quite quickly with not very much arguing. However, Wonga and Quickquid are a differnet matter. I put complaints in to the FOS early March and still heard nothing with regards to over 6 year loans. The FOS sent me this…..
”As you are already aware Wonga has time barred your loans because they believe you have made the complaint more than six years after you took out the loans. So this complaint is currently with our jurisdiction team who will consider if we can look into these loans.
We usually aim to have complaints resolved within 90 days. However due to the complex nature of some of these jurisdiction complaints they may take slightly longer to be resolved.” and ”Your case is still currently waiting to be assessed on the 6 year jurisdiction issue raised by the business. I appreciate that this is not much of an update for you, and I’m sorry for the time it is taking. Unfortunately, I’m unable to give you an exact timescale on this, as jurisdiction cases can take a number of months to resolve. However, we will contact you with an update as soon as there is more progress”
Ian says
So I first wrote to lending stream to complain about my 32 Loans on the 1st August, received their final response to waive interest on last 2 loans on 25th August to which I referred to Ombudsman. Had emails & a phone call from my adjudicator start of last week to say he had received all the information I had sent 5 years of Bank Statements / Credit Report and my complaint etc. and that it was likely I wouldn’t hear off him for at least 14 days as he had written to Lending Stream asking for their information and they had 14 days to reply. That was 29th August. Today I have logged onto check my latest credit report as it was available and low and behold any record of lending stream has gone from my credit report! Deleted!!! Every one of the 32 loans! Is this Lending Stream trying to be crafty or could it be my adjudicator has already been in negotiation with Lending Stream and just not sent me the details of his findings? So glad I have saved old credit reports if it is the case that they are being crafty!
AK says
Lending Stream just sent me an email that they didn’t do anything wrong but nowhere in the email mentioned if it was their final response . Should I ask if it was their final response, tell them about other payday loans taken at the same time or raise a complaint with ombudsman? Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask them is it is their final response. No need to waste time talking to them about your other loans – they don’t usually listen to arguments.
Acee says
AK I’ve emailed them 3 times asking if it was their final offer and they haven’t replied also emailed them last week with a counter offer they haven’t replied to that either so you can ask but they won’t reply. It’s been 6 weeks since my complaint so I’m waiting to send it to the Ombudsman.
Ro65 says
After getting an email fro Cheque centre 3 weeks ago saying they’re splitting my complaint in to 2 as I have 24 loans older than 6 years and 13 loans within 6 years I’ve had the decision from my adjudicator today saying they should refund loans 25 – 37 + 8% interest.
This is around £3.5k but need to sit tight to see whether they pay up as they’ve called in the administrators. Not holding out much hope!
Maureen says
You got a better response than I did….only 4 loans out of 13 upheld! Well done! Waiting game now and we shall see
Maureen says
I have a predicament and would like some advice. I have a complaint at adjudicator level for Cheque Centre (they split the complaint into pre and post 6 years) , now bear in mind I had a recent complaint upheld in full for exactly the same period of time between February 2011 and September 2012 against my jar by a different adjudicator and the loans were only for £400 each month. Cheque centre loans were between £500 and £1000 and this adjudicator has only upheld loan 2 and 11,12 and 13 which is substantially less than I was expecting! Now, I would normally ask for an ombudsman to take a look but with the cheque centre in administration and only having until December 2017 that their sister company is taking on their commitments I really don’t know what to do….I’ve more or less written off the over 6 years now as I think it’s highly unlikely they will get agreement for those but what should I do. Your advice would be appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was there a particular reason why only those loans were picked?
Maureen says
He said the income was high enough to be affordable for the others! But as I say with my jar the complain was upheld in full, same income but smaller loans, doesn’t make sense.
my income always fluctuated, overtime, bonus etc so the loans he picked, after outgoings and other loan payments he said I could afford them. I do think he’s missed payments I was making to other lenders.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this a final decision from the adjudicator? If you think he has missed something, go back and point this out. I can’t really guess at whether it’s worth sending this to the Ombudsman – I don’t know how real the December date that has been mentioned is – it isn’t clear to me that refunds would stop at that point. Have you discussed this with the FOS?
Maureen says
Yes as far as I can see its final, I had a chat with someone else today before he emailed this to me. He did say that knowing they are in the process of liquidation it could get to the ombudsman a bit quicker if cheque centre didn’t agree with the decision as they know about the December date. I didn’t expect the decision to be so far out though! Maybe I’ll ring him tomorrow and have a chat and point out the previous adjudicators findings on the my jar complaint is very different to his. We are talking about 3000 more so it’s a lot to lose but I’d hate to protract it and I end up losing getting £1400
Craig says
Thanks Sara, just putting my letters together and could do with advice about some items, whether to include the details or not. The main thing I am after gaining from these complaints is trying to get the balances zeroed, I’m not interested in big refunds just to settle my DMP as soon as.
– When I first started payday loans 8 months ago I’d only been discharged from bankruptcy 18 months, would this add weight to the claim that they shouldn’t have lent.
– Unfortunately I started with payday loans due to a gambling habit that developed when my marriage broke down. I did put on my applications that I was still married, rather than separated, and living together when I was really living in a flat. I suppose I put these details in as I always believed there would be a reconcillation, which is now not the case. Again does mentioning the gambling throw weight behind the claim or kick it out? And would not telling the whole truth about relationship and living arranagements cause fraud issues?
Thanks for your help, Craig
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My advice is always to ask for a full refund and removal of records from your credit record. It is just simpler to argue for this!
Being recently discharged from bankruptcy suggests that you had previously had major problems. It’s not negative for your claim but it’s not a huge positive as going bankrupt may have got rid of your problems. You need to be concentrating on the fact that the loans were not affordable.
Whether or not you were married doesn’t seem very relevant to the affordability issue. Gambling doesn’t make your complaint stronger or weaker – it was just a reason why you had problems. Plenty of people have won complaints with the Ombudsman when there was a lot of gambling on their bank statements. But telling a lender you were gambling isn’t going to make them more likely to offer you a refund.
Tom says
I’m 3 days away from the 8 week mark for all of my complaints. Just received final response through the post from WageDayAdvance denying all wrongdoing and my final £200-odd remains outstanding which they will put on hold for 30 days whilst we work out a mutual agreement for a repayment plan. They referred to me as a “Mrs” too…!
MrLender – responded and settled within 2 weeks
MyJar – responded and declined within 4 weeks
SafetyNet – responded and declined within 6 weeks
Hope timescales help people. My biggest, like many people, will be from Wonga. I’ve worked out I’m owed around £3k, but from other posts on here I know this is a long shot and they’ll probably pick a random loan out of nowhere.
AK says
My Jar initially declined my complaint, too. After going back to them they changed their mind. I wrote that at the time of my applications I had numerous other payday loans and their checks should’ve notice that. I only had 3 loans with them, they refunded the interest on 2 of them and left only remaining principal on my last loan with them for me to pay. Worth a try to save time making a counter-offer. They answered in two day, you still will be on time for your complaint to ombudsman.
Tom says
Thanks for the advice. WDA have said it’s their final response, I wonder if it’s worth trying to counter-offer or just go straight to FOS?
AK says
My jar twice said it’s their final response. And twice after contact they made one step towards me. First refunded interest on outstanding loan then on second loan. I didn’t receive WDA response yet, can’t comment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unless there is a factual error (they have the wrong number of loans, or got your current balance wrong) I would send it straight to the FOS – WDA don’t usually negotiate.
stu says
I agree having had 50 odd months of borrowing since 2012 they have ignored any attempt at a settlement (saving them about£2.5K) WDA appear to do their own investigation and either pay out or say they did nothing wrong, I am at week six and they have done nothing investigation wise.
Despite their complaints procedure stating they would provide the name of whom will investigate but never do, two more weeks and Ombudsman I go.
Liam says
Hi Sara,
My complaint against Sunny was upheld in March and they were told to remove a default from my credit report which they haven’t done. Is there anything I do? I’ve emailed them month after month and rarely get a reply. Can i raise a further complaint with the fca? Or is it pointless as Sunny will just ignore the final decision?
NGill says
Hi Liam,
I assume you would have got some written confirmation from FOS detailing what Sunny needed to do by way of your credit file?
Now I am by no means an expert but could you not query the credit entry directly with credit reference agencies and provide the FOS documentation as evidence to have the items removed? This way they will approach Sunny directly to resolve the issue and failure on the part of Sunny to respond directly to them will lead to the entry being suppressed?
Its just a thought, both Clear Score and Noddle offer a very simple process online to query any specific entries.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The “simple process” to query entries is usually a total waste of time – the credit reference agency just forwards the query to the lender and closes the case after 30 days. Don’t bother trying this, you need to get problems sorted out with the lender.
Liam says
Yes, ombudsman’s final decision states “remove any adverse information recorded on Mr *’s credit file as a result of this loan”
Final decision was made on 7th Feb. I only received the refund in July after almost constant pestering. Original complaint went in 06/04/16
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Something very odd about your case, Sunny aren’t usually difficult like this – talk to your adjudicator.
Jo says
Hi all, I have just had an offer from Quickquid/P2P combined which I have been happy to accept (just over £4000).
I have sent the reply email saying I accept their offer. Does anyone have any experience of how long they take to credit it to your bank account?
I cannot thank this site enough for all the help it has been. This is my first offer, just waiting on 5 more to get back to me and another 4 left to make Complaints to.
I feel like I can at last (after 6 long years), get off this awful carousel of payday loan debt that I’ve been stuck on for the past 6 years.
So thank you, Jo
Harry Iqbal says
Hello guys I put in a complaint to peachy on Saturday received a standard email almost auto response same day to say they investigate on Tuesday they sent a full reply I was shocked up only offered 14.67 interest on last 2 loans then same day I asked for summary of borrowing so I can see what loans I took asked them to reconsider as over 8 loans I paid almost £1300 in interest and they came back and gave me an offer of 3 loans the latest one to being £467 as this was my biggest interest loan they have also said if you send a bank statement they reassess this but I have countered offer saying if you return for the 3 loans and one more which is almost £700 I will be happy and accept has anyone had any dealings with peachy so far they have been the fastest yet there email reply far more technical and more detailed be nice to see if they accept
Tom says
Don’t send bank statements to them. Tell them to investigate your complaint in full with the information they have and if they don’t give a satisfactory response you will forward it to the Financial Ombudsman Service and will send your bank statements to them to investigate.
Jo says
I put my complaint in to Peachy at the end of July and apart from the acknowledgement from them, I have heard nothing since. I might give them a nudge if they were so quick to respond to you :-)
I’d be interested to find out if they accept your counter offer. Good luck and hope they don’t take too long to get back to you.
Best wishes Jo
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At one point they used bank statements to then be unpleasant and suggest that people lied on their application form… I hope they have stopped doing that!
Harry Iqbal says
I was thinking this as the email suggested they might withdraw the offer I don’t wanna send statements hoping they accept the offer and that be another one sorted so far mr lender paid piggy bank paid my jar stopped all interest just taking principal and now wonga paid huge £2519 and if I can get £700 from here then all left is 3 biggest sunny lending stream and quick quid and waiting on first response as well and payday express wish everyone luck keep supporting each other we’re all in it together
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well with c£1300 paid in interest, just send your case to the ombudsman if they don’t accept your offer!
Chris says
Just had a final response from Myjar 3 days before the 8 week deadline. I had 64 loans with them in the last 5 years with an had an outstanding balance of £1,558 on one of the loans. They agreed to wipe out the outstanding balance and refund me £2,598 as well as removing all negative marks from my credit file. The money was put into my account within 3 hours of me accepting their offer.
MrLender also wiped out an outstanding balance of £500 and removed all negative results from my credit file, probably could have got some cash back from them as well but I accepted the first offer as I was just happy to have the outstanding balance wiped off.
Big thank you to everyone on this site!
Paul says
Hi,
I sent my letters off around 4 weeks ago, had some responses and some have ignored. Mr lender settled quickly but I see that’s a common theme. My issue is that once again I had gambling so usually I would take a loan, gamble and win then pay it off quickly. This culminated in me eventually losing (a lot) and being left with lots of loans that I couldn’t re pay. Do you think this sounds a good case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Gambling and payday loans often go together. See this article that look at some cases which have gone to the Ombudsman where gambling was an issue – that will give you a good feel for what happens: https://debtcamel.co.uk/gambling-payday-loan-refunds/.
The Hitman says
Hi all, I’m keen to know everyone’s circumstances. I earned 30-32k p/a, have a very poor credit score 498 on noddle, a fair few defaults, and a settle CCJ. I was borrowing from multiple lenders at a time, plus had a serious gambling issue, so I was borrowing fairly big. I have Lending stream, Sunny, 247, Poudstillpayday currently with the FO, plus a few more due to go over. All in my forecasted figure is approx 10k, but so far nothing. I expected some to settle before going to the FO
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Anyone with a big gambling problem is likely to have most cases go to the Ombudsman because to your lenders you looked as though you could afford the loans.
Chloe says
Wage day advance got back to me eventually saying they did all the correct things. They said I stated on the application my income is £1000 but it wasn’t it was £850 and I hadn’t lied on any other applications (there were lots!) so I can’t imagine I would have on this one.
They also said they aren’t required to do a credit check so they didn’t do one.
What should I do now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They say that lot to a lot of people who then go on to win FO cases. Unless you only had the odd loan with them, I suggest you send your case to the Ombudsman.
Chloe says
It was two loans with them, however I had loans beforehand that were outstanding with moneyshop wonga quick quid payday uk payday express and speedy cash.
On a wage of just £850 the repayments were almost double my wage