Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t and the lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
Ryan says
Has anyone got any experience of waiting on a refund via Bacs from newday. I keep chasing them after they has missed now two lots of ‘7 days to process payment via bacs’, and I’ve still got nothing. I’ve told them il forward this on to the FOS, but I just want to get it sorted and move on. How long roughly have been waiting for them to issue a refund?
Jax says
They took about 3 weeks to pay me even though they said 3 to 5 working days. Emailed them saying I was sending to FOS and payment was received within a few days plus an extra 25 quid.
Ryan says
Thank you. Where did you send an email to? Which email address?
Jax says
It was complaints@newday.co.uk – good luck
Tony says
I have a Zable card limit was £500 am now sitting with a balance of £660 thing was i was managing fine but when i started going over limit i would pay and they would let me pay for stuff even though i was over limit i have a bad credit history which i cleared and got the Zable card and i feel they should not have given me card due to poor previous credit do you think i should compalin?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is the rest of your current debt situation like?
Chloe says
Hi Sara
On 26/9/22 I wrote to vanquis about irresponsible lending and they upheld my complaint. On 11/10/22 I had an email to say they were buying my debt back will clear the outstanding balance owed (from this I should be receiving £800 owed to myself. Do you know how long it takes to buy back a debt as I haven’t heard anything since? I have emailed to enquire how long it will take but I have had no response.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
sometimes this can drag on for a long while, see this thread https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/comment-page-35/#comment-491902
Chloe says
Thanks Sara!
Nicole says
Don’t bother with emailing as they have a backlog, I’d call and chase! My complaint was upheld in august and I’m still waiting but the end is in site and 🤞🏼 should be sorted this month! If you know who they are buying it back from contact them aswell to make sure they’ve received the paperwork from vanquis, this is what held mine up!
Chloe says
Hi Nicole
I actually rang Moorcroft after I posted on here, they said they haven’t had any correspondence from Vanquis. I rang vanquis and I am getting a call back tomorrow whilst the call handler looks into what is going on
Nicole says
Hi Chloe, I’ve had to do a lot of chasing with Vanquis! They’ve only ever called me back once but told me many of times they will! I hope you have more luck🤞🏼 if you can find out an email from moorcroft where vanquis need to be sending the recourse paperwork too and then pass this back to vanquis! I’ve only had movement with vanquis and arrow now after I provided them with an email address to the right department in arrow and only then did arrow finally receive something from vanquis! It’s been a nightmare for something that should of been easy, arrow had no idea vanquis wanted the account back until I told them🤷🏼♀️ x
Chloe says
Hi Nicole
Following on from my post last week, I have had a call back from vanquis today saying that they should have the account back from Moorcroft next week and they will contact me to tell me the next steps. How long did it take you to get your money back at this stage?
Thanks
Nicole says
Hi Chloe,
Have you spoken with Moorcroft to confirm they received the recourse and definitely had contact from Vanquis?
My account still isn’t back yet so I can’t comment on the time scale but a manager at Vanquis did say that stage happens really quickly as in days, my account should be back next week too🤞🏼 according to Arrow and there time scales to process things there end (4 weeks)
Chloe says
Hi Nicole
Moorcroft are saying they still haven’t heard from Vanquis are saying they have been in contact. It’s just a frustrating situation as Vanquis are giving me vague non answer – answers! The most frustrating thing is when they say “it can take a while” and not give me a time scale. Quick enough to sell the debt but not quick enough to get it back!
Jax says
Hello, my complaint against Zopa has been with an ombudsman for over 4 weeks now and I’m still waiting for a decision. I’ve not been contacted to ask for any information. It was put in the queue for an ombudsman to review it after Zopa disagreed with the adjudicator over 8 weeks ago so the time for the ombudsman to pick it up was pretty quick. How much longer am I likely to wait before I hear anything?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
4-10 weeks is common. Under 4 is unusual. Over 10 does happen.
Jax says
That’s really helpful Sara, thank you.
John says
got complaints at the ombudsman for 2 credit cards that were both opened in 2017, 3 months apart, both had identical starting limit of £500 and both had a further credit limit increase since, the adjudicator for card A has upheld my claim for the initial credit card and credit limit, just found out the adjudicator for card B has not upheld my complaint for the initial card or credit limit even though I used card B in exactly the same way as A for the last 5 years (constantly maxed out and used for gambling), this is puzzling to me and not very consistent, has anyone had a situation similar to this? seems to be a lot of luck in who your case gets given to at the ombudsman!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Why has the second adjudicator rejected it?
John says
part 3,
The card that has not been upheld is Vanquis. The other card that was upheld was Barclaycard, the adjudactor for this card says Barclaycard didnt do enough checks and yet the woman doing my Vanquis says they didnt need to as the monthly repayment was £15.
The credit limit increase part is especially baffling to me, the 6 months prior to the credit limit increase the card was 99% maxed out, I also had 5 other cards maxed out in this 6 months. Then she says I managed my account “well” after this limit increase and paid off the debt in full. After the limit increase I maxed out the limit to £850 and its still maxed now, she seems to think I’ve paid off the debt and closed the account when I haven’t! the account is -£849, very odd reasoning from this person
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That isn’t very odd reasoning, it sounds like a mistake as it’s the facts that are wrong, not just the conclusion the adjudicator has drawn.
I suggest you go back and point out the errors:
– that before the limit increase your account was constantly maxed out and Vanquis should have seen that you had other cards also maxed out from your credit record
– that you have not repaid the debt as it is still maxed out now.
John says
yeh, just in the process of doing this now and collecting info/screenshots to back up my claim, heres hoping she changes her mind!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Off to the Ombudsman if not!
John says
I had a response from the woman today and she’s still not upholding my claim, this is quite a bizarre one! hopefully the ombudsman has a different view
“You’ve said you were close to your credit limit since you opened your account with Vanquis – and I accept this is correct. But that isn’t necessarily a sign of financial difficulty in isolation. You very rarely exceeded your credit limit (the last time being in December 2019) and only missed one payment (in February 2019), so I don’t think they were unfair to increase your credit limit to an amount that was still relatively modest, certainly in comparison to the income you declared to them when they asked for your circumstances.”
“Finally there was an error in my view where I stated the account had been paid off in full. I’m sorry for this, it was incorrect information Vanquis had provided me with. But unfortunately it doesn’t change my overall opinion on your complaint.”
lynda says
I agree, depends on what Investigator deals with your case. I just got a decision one day after receiving the introduction email from the Ombudsman and did not even have a chance to submit any evidence for consideration!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is common. For anyone else in this situation – If you have any evidence to submit about why the adjudicators decision was wrong, done this straight away so it is waiting for the Ombudsman. Don’t wait to be asked as you may not be.
John says
part 1, initial credit card
“You’ve since told me you weren’t in receipt of any income at the time you applied for the account and had given false information on your application. I’ve considered whether the business should’ve been aware of this – but I don’t think they should have been. There’s not a definitive set of checks a lender should complete prior to them making a lending decision, but the checks should be reasonable and proportionate to the type, amount and length of the credit agreement being taken out. So given they only agreed a £500 credit limit, and the amount you’d have had to pay to meet the minimum repayment on the account would’ve been around £15, I don’t think the business needed to verify your income via bank statements or further credit reference agency checks”
John says
part 2, credit limit increase
“When a business increases a credit limit, it’s reasonable to have expected them to look at how your account had been managed up until that point. And it’s clear that from when the account opened in July 2017, it was initially used almost solely for gambling transactions. This continued until around March 2020 when these types of transactions stopped. You did continue to use your credit card for cash withdrawals after this point, which I accept can be a sign of financial difficulty, given the cash fee you’d have got charged, but these also stopped around six months before the credit limit increase.
We generally expect businesses to monitor a customer’s account usage in the past six months prior to a potential credit limit increase – and looking at your credit card statements I can’t see anything that makes me think you were in financial difficulty. In the three months prior to the increase you’d been paying 237% over the minimum required monthly payment. You managed your account well after this increase and eventually paid off the full debt and closed the account.”
Jack says
I just want to say thank you! I’ve had my adjudicator come back and rule in favour for 2 cards that shouldn’t have been given and 1 partial for the increases that should never have been given. The interest and fees is to be wiped and it’s a huge relief. I’m not sure to the value of this, if I get money back in my pocket I’ll be thrilled but if it just brings me upto date with these accounts paid and closed I’ll be so happy. It’s a huge weight gone.
Now to hope NewDay don’t dispute the adjudicator but I feel hopeful this is finally resolved all thanks to this thread.
Daniel says
Hi Sara
So I am in a DMP with StepChange since April 2020 and my debts were as followed although they have reduced slightly since being in the DMP.
MBNA now sold to Moorcroft Group- around £7k. Credit limit was increased in 2019 from 4.9k and then maxed out – I had a gambling addiction at the time.
Barclaycard now sold to PRA group – £5k
Sainsburys Bank – 2k loan from October 2019
Tesco Bank -1k loan from Sept 2019
Capital One credit card – £500 Jan 2020
HSBC loan which was my main bank account– 1k loan from June 2019
Monzo overdraft – £600 – they have just sent me a notice of default I am trying to avoid
SafetyNet Credit £1k borrowed consistently between 2017- 2020- I was forced to pay them the remaining balance of £678 last month as they sent me a notice of default by email saying I had to pay within 2 weeks to avoid the default, this meant I had to pause my DMP for a month in order to afford this.
I was wondering whether it is worth a complaint to each of these as they were all around the same period and I had obvious issues with gambling on my bank account whilst still being afforded more credit . Unfortunately I did SafetyNet through a claims firm before I discovered this site. I have been resigned to paying this debt off for a long period and whilst any compensation would help towards paying the remaining 12k off. What are the chances in getting some of these defaults removed from my file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
First you need to stop worrying about defaults. Stoping paying a DMP so you can pay one lender makes no sense. There are worse things than a few defaults, such as a shed load of debt that you can’t afford to clear. Also when you are in a DMP defaults aren’t bad as the defaults will drop off your credit recored after 6 year. Any payment arrangements or missed payments stay there until 6 years after the account is closed. In fact you should be asking lenders to add a default back when the DMP started.
MBNA now sold to Moorcroft Group- around £7k. Credit limit was increased in 2019 from 4.9k and then maxed out – I had a gambling addiction at the time.
Definite complaint. But be clear you want a refund from when the account was opened, not just when the limit was increased.
Barclaycard now sold to PRA group – £5k
Ditto. Your complaint goes to Barclaycard not PRA
Sainsburys Bank & Tesco Bank
Complain. By then your credit record should have showed a LOT of debt
Capital One credit card – £500 Jan 2020
Unlikely to win – it isnt a large amount and even if you did they can’t have added much interest hbefore the DMP started.
HSBC loan which was my main bank account– 1k loan from June 2019
Complain. Point out if gambling was showing on your bank statements.
Did you also have an overdraft?
Monzo overdraft – £600 – they have just sent me a notice of default I am trying to avoid
That is pretty small. How long have you had the account and was there ever gambling showing on it?
Daniel says
It seems unfair when they default 3 years into a DMP when most did in first 6 months. I didn’t want a default to be there 6 years from now when all my others will have long fallen off as I want a mortgage at some point in the future so I settled with SafetyNet to avoid this. I did advise with StepChange on this and they would put it down as an unexpected expense.
HSBC loan did have an overdraft for years in my time at Uni until I cleared it with some of the credit from the list above as I was getting charges, can’t remember which exactly.
The Monzo account has been open since 2019, overdraft was maxed out to 1k before the DMP. Most gambling transactions were through my main HSBC account. They are only asking for me to bring the account under the overdraft limit, which seems to be reduced everytime I make a DMP payment. Trouble is they take an age to respond in the chat.
Sainsbury’s Bank is only giving me an option to complain by phone, are there any addresses?
For the rest I will complain and update in here.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It seems unfair when they default 3 years into a DMP when most did in first 6 months.
Indeed. That is why you should ask for the default to be backdated. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/
Try ian.cook@sainsburysbank.co.uk and let me know if that email doesn’t work.
Mandy says
Hi Sara
I have a complaint upheld by an adjudicator, Tesco didn’t agree so an ombudsman has looked at it and agreed I should get all interest and charges back from my credit card. They gave Tesco 4 weeks to settle once I had accepted the decision, this date has now passed, the ombudsman has wrote to Tesco again, do you know how long they have got legally to settle?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well 28 days. But it’s easier to let the ombudsman try to sort this out than for you to take Tesco to court about it.
Jay says
how do you get an adjudicator to look at a complaint? is this seperate to the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
An adjudicator is the first level of decision making. If you or the lender isnt happy with the decision you can ask for it to go to an Ombudsman. 90% of cases are settled by the adjudicator decision.
Ernest says
Good morning Sara .l need your advice on this 2 credit from capitalone / Ocean card .. First account open 2016 from £200 increased to £800 2016 and £1,550 in Feb 2018.
And second account open in 2018 (Ocean card)£1,250 but never increases.
Adjudicator uphold my complaint on( Ocean card) but not capitalone. Am not sure if the adjudicator uphold the 2 account or not l will forward the information from adjudicator in separate is too long.
Capitalone card 1354 £1550 increased £200 to 1550
Ocean card 8745 £ 1250 not increase
Both accounts are default on payment plan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was the Ocean card also operated by Capital One?
Ernest says
Yes pls. Capitalone 1354.Your checks before you decided to increase Mr Earnest’s credit limit don’t appear to have thrown up any signs that he was likely to find the lending unsustainable and unaffordable. And the information we’ve been given since being asked to look at this complaint, which gives us a reasonably detailed picture of his financial circumstances around the time you lent to him, doesn’t suggest that he was struggling financially. And as it looks like he had enough disposable income each month to sustainably make the repayments on the lending in question over a reasonable period of time, I haven’t identified any signs that suggest the repayments were likely to have been unsustainable for Mr Earnest and unaffordable as a result. I say this because the checks completed didn’t show any signs of bankruptcy or defaulted debt and I can’t say that the level of outstanding debt would have given cause for concern or prompted further checks. Therefore, I do think the checks completed
Ernest says
didn’t show any signs of bankruptcy or defaulted debt and I can’t say that the level of outstanding debt would have given cause for concern or prompted further checks. Therefore, I do think the checks completed in relation to the limit increases from £200 to £600 and from £600 to £750, were proportionate. I can’t say that I’ve seen any evidence to suggest that either limit increase was unaffordable to Mr E or that by providing either limit increase would have been harmful to him. Therefore, I can’t say that I’ve seen anything to suggest that Capital One acted unfairly by providing Mr E with these limit increases. The limit is from £200 to £800 to £1550 in 2017. Not £200 £600 to £750
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The go back sand ask the adjudicator to look again as the limit increases were much larger then the ones that have been mentioned. Ask for it to go to an Ombudsman if they aren’t upheld.
Ernest says
Thanks so much..
Amy says
Hey
Just heard back from NewDay (aqua) and
They have upheld my
Complaint £499 in bank in 7-10 days keeps trying , have with outcome
Fiona says
This is a thanks- this website has been a great tool to help me submit Affordability complaints and I’ve had quite a few upheld over the past 3 years. I wanted to share my most recent and surprising win – 2 wins against Santander. My current account with a £6k overdraft – it was in persistent overdraft. And a Santander credit card with a £7.5k balance. The cc went back to 2012 and this is hard to win, but an Ombudsman upheld. Key was I argued I had only been aware for the past 3 years that I could complain. Santander said I should have been aware earlier. Ombudsman agreed with me. Over £13k refund between the 2 accounts and 2x defaults removed. One more point – assume the process will take a year for a decision, more if referred to Ombudsman for Final decision. This is a slow process but often worth it.
Ernest says
Good morning Sara .. pls l need advice on the barclays credit in 2006 limit £3000 then increased to £5500 and increased to £7000 in 2007 and then decrease to £4100 in 2007 by the bank not me. But Adjudicator did not upheld my complain and then pass to Ombudsman and Ombudsman just make provisional decision now by not upheld my complaint.
Page 2 of 5As no agreement could be reached, the case has been passed to me for review. I asked the investigator to ask Mr E if there were any exceptional circumstances that stopped him from bringing the complaint sooner. And I asked the investigator to ask Mr E and Barclays for information about who instigated the credit limit decrease in October 2007.In response, Barclays said its records showed it had been a manual adjustment which it thought suggested it was Mr E who had requested the decrease. It wouldn’t have expected a manual adjustment if it had been decreased by it. And it wouldn’t have expected to have run another campaign to have looked at the credit limit so soon after it being increased the month before. It went on to say that this also suggested the limit had been decreased by Mr E.Mr E simply said that the increases and decrease had been actioned by Barclays. He gave no details of any exceptional circumstances that might apply..
The adjudicator did not ask me any exceptional circumstances
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is the problem with very old complaints – there may not even be any evidence about what happened. In which case you are unlikely to win.
You could reply that you don’t see why exceptional circumstances are relevant as you have complained within 3 years of finding out you had a cause for complaint.
Sarah says
Hi all, so last week aqua newday have finally agreed in my favour, they have been given 4 weeks which takes upto 13th december, anyone know if they give settlement break down before the deadline and pay within that time?
Jack says
Hey – just looking for some advice on my settlement.
The FOS agreed with me that 2 cards should never have been given so is full refund of fees and interest but my Marbles card is that increases after 2018 shouldn’t have been increased from £2,000 to £4,100. Marbles have said that from September 2018 to start of January 2022 that only £667 of interest was applied. I’m not sure on that figure but I can’t substantiate why I disagree. Is there anything I can do for clarification or do I just have to trust these figures?
Thanks!
Jack
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of balance did you run from sept 18 to Jan 22?
Jack says
it was maxed out pretty quickly, so the full £2100 extra limit that was given.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and do you know how much interest you were paying in a typical month?
Jack says
At the end it was around £100 a month in interest being added.
Thanks for your help with this
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case if you were always close to being maxed out, I would expect the interest on the part over 2000 to be a lot more than £665 over. Period of more than 3 years. Tell your adjudicator it doesn’t sound right and ask Marbles for an explanation of how it was calculated.
Jack says
Thanks so much – you’ve been such a help. Whilst it won’t give me a cash refund, having s refund of these fees hugely reduces the balance and it’s a huge weight off my mind in all honesty.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Fair enough, but worth a push to get some more? Up to you.
Danielle says
Hello,
I have a number of debts I have racked up in the last couple of months. I should have never been given the credit and I am using some of these templates for irresponsible lending.
Has anyone had success with Virgin Money?
Thank you.
John says
One of the credit cards I have currently with the ombudsman, got a question about an email I received today, hoping someone can clarify it for me. The adjudicator has not upheld my complaint on the issuing of the credit card but has agreed with me on the credit limit increase. They have advised the credit card company their recommendation of refunding all interest and charges since the limit increase. Initially the adjudicator gave the company until the 17th to reply to this which they failed to do. The adjudicator is now saying they’re giving the company another chance to reply until the 30th and if no response the complaint will be sent to an ombudsman for a final decision. This adjudicator also suggests if I still disagree with their assessment on the initial credit card I can have an ombudsman look at this for a final decision
“the additional information doesn’t change my view of your complaint. However if you still disagree an ombudsman can review your complaint and make a final decision although I should advise that the outcome maybe different to mine, which means there is a possibility they may not uphold the complaint. ”
how likely is it the ombudsman would disagree with the adjudicator on the credit limit increase if it comes to this? It seems likely the complaint will be going to a final decision as the company doesn’t look like replying to the adjudicator by the 30th.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was the original limit? When was the account opened?
When was the first increase and how much?
Are you sure the adjudicator has said refund ALL interest from the first increase? Or just refund the interest charged over the original limit?
John says
hi,
yeh the original limit was £500 when opened Nov 2017. They then increased the limit in sep 2018 to £800. Yeh sorry I wasn’t clear with that, they’ve said to refund all interest and charges on the additional £300 since sep 2018
it just sounds a little strange how they’ve worded the email today. The way I read it the adjudicator is saying if the complaint goes to a final decision I will risk having this decision for the interest and fees for the £300 increase refunded overturned. Just seems a bit strange because if the company doesn’t reply by the 30th it says it has to be sent to the ombudsman for a final decision. So there’s no benefit to the credit company replying as they have a freeroll on the ombudsman not agreeing with the adjudicator. Just wondering basically how likely or unlikely it is for an ombudsman not agreeing with an adjudicator after they’ve agreed to uphold that part of the complaint
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“So there’s no benefit to the credit company replying as they have a freeroll on the ombudsman not agreeing with the adjudicator. “
That isn’t true, if it goes to the Ombudsman the Ombudsman could decide:
1) that the lender has to refund everything from the start (much better for you)
2) that the lender has to refund everything from the time the limit was increased (better for you)
3) what the adjudicator said
4) that the increase was affordable and you get nothing (better for the lender)
From experience of seing other offers, my guess is that the refund you will get from the adjudicator’s offer will actually be quite small.
Do you think you can make out a good case for your position at Sep 18 being clearly very difficlt, so that at that point the lender should not only have not increased your limit, but they should have offered your forebearance – freezing interest – so that from that point they should refund everything?
John says
Yeh ive already done pretty much all I can to prove how bad my financial situation was in 2018. Ive sent the adjudicator lots and lots of proof/screenshots showing that I had no income in nov 17 when the card was opened and also have sent enough proof to show I was still unemployed with no income at the time of the limit increase in sep 18, I think its pretty clear the credit card wasn’t affordable for me but the adjudicator is sticking to their guns on this and only recommending to refund the interest/charges on the £300 increase.
“Additionally the regulations state that financial businesses should make checks proportionate to the amount being lent and so I wouldn’t expect Barclays to verify your income for a small credit limit of £500. When I stated in my view that Barclays confirmed your income I meant that they confirmed your income with you by asking for this on your application. Although Barclays did contact a credit reference agency who did take some steps to confirm your income based on your current account turnover, and looking at your statements although the end balance was often zero or sometimes an overdrawn figure there was a regular amount of income being paid in, whatever the source of that may have been. ”
the “income” that was paid in was loans from dad and friends
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you should consider rejecting this decision – which will probably only get a small refund – and asking for it to go to an Ombudsman.
Roy says
Hi Sara,
An adjudicator has been assigned to one of my complaints which had been rejected by Halifax due to being more than 6years. The adjudicator wants to know when I was aware of a problem with the account, what caused me to be realise and what prompted me to complain. I only found out about the possibility of complaining through this website earlier this year when I finally realised I had to take my head out of the sand, block gambling and tackle my debts. Is that enough to support a complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds good to me. You have a rough date (earlier this year) and you complained within 3 years of that. Also you have a story for why you realised at that point.
Lloyd says
It says in the above article not to complain if you are in a DMP? Can you advise further on this please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, it says not to complain if you are in a DRO – a form of insolvency. This is very different from a DMP.
Being in a DMP is a very good time to complain – getting balances reduced or cash refunded may speed up your DMP and it may improve your credit record a bit.
Lloyd says
Ah sorry misunderstood thanks for confirming.
SaraT says
Has anyone felt JD Williams redress seems low? Initially they refused my claim be the adjudicator saw in my favour, they upheld from 2012 when the limit increased so the first £1750 was disregarded ,through to 2021 when the account was paid off before the complaint when the limit was around £3000 the redress divided by the 9 years into months is £17 a month yet I was paying minimum payments over £100?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was the limit increased to 3k in 2012? did you soon nearly max account the account?
SaraT says
It was pretty much maxed out within a year then minimum payment most of the time unless paid an extra few hundred but then maxed out next month again. I can only go back to 2016 on bank statements and always min payment of £150.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then that calculation definitely sounds too low. Ask JDW for an explataion of how it was calculated and tell your adjudicator now that you don’t think JDW has got it right.
SaraT says
I will thank you, so grateful to you once again x
DBUK says
Juat wanted to post an update to encourage others and show my gratitude.
I made 11 complaints in total.
9 of the lenders rejected my complaints. Drafty were the only lender to uphold my complaint and refunded me £730.81.
I decided on reflection that 2 of my complaints were hard to defend and not strong enough to escalate to the ombudsman.
3 other lenders offered me token goodwill gestures which I accepted given they were very small value complaints. This came to a total of £205.
4 of the complaints were referred to the ombudsman of which 3 found in my favour. 1 is still awaiting investigation. So far I’ve recieved refunds totalling £8101.05. If the fourth goes my way, this could mean an additional £1000.
The remaining lender has offered me a sizeable sum in settlement, £840. Its potentially worth £3200, but the ombudsman waiting times are scarily long now, so I’m still deliberating what to do.
In summary, because of this site I’m nearly debt free. I’ll have recieved refunds of £9k (potentially more) I’ve still got work to do recovering my credit file, but the corrections have helped a little. This site and your advise, Sara, have changed my world. Thank you.
S says
Hello
I have a credit card owing £4401 to them that and in default. But my credit report have notified me that it being removed from my credit file with out standing balence. What dose.this mean for money owing?
I have tried to get written off on health/mental health ground at the time and won’t accept it. But don’t quiet know how to offer a settlement offer to them how to work it out?
I would like to sort
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is the creditor?
S says
Hello
Barclay card credit card
I wonder why being removed credit file
And I can’t work out what amount I would offer a settlement account
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you have to ask Barclaycard what they have done. It may be that they have written the debt off. But it may well be that they have sold the debt to a debt collector in which case any settlement offer should be made to the debt collector not to Barclaycard.
S says
Hello
How do you work.ouy settlement amount?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you first need to find out what has happened to this debt – at the moment you have no idea.
S says
Hello
The Barclay card I did put a complaint in about it. Saying I had problems paying it but you increased the credit limit .t
hey said because I’d paid for holiday they rejected the complaint at Barclays card.
I want trying to get it written off. I’d had diagnosis of autism’s and boarderline personality disorders and other mantal health problems and dyslexia.
Once you have a credit card do they every review Ur credit file? Or credit? After opening
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As we discussed in your other thread, if the debt is unenforceable because Barclaycard cannot produce the CCA agreement, then there is no need to try to get it written off.
when did you make this affordability complaint that was rejected? when did they last increase your credit limit?
what is the rest of your financial situation like – do you have other debts? are you behind with essential bills? are you buying or renting?
S says
Hello
I had trouble paying before 2012 and then increased credit limit I informed them I was now a student.
I also had a dro. Before 2012.
Think I just wrote a letter trying to get wrong off explaining about illness and that you increased credit limit when aware that I had trouble paying in past I didn’t inform the of dro when it was happening as balence on the Barclays was nil.
My financial situation is now is I am benefits due to I’ll health I have 5hrs support a week from a support worker that I self fund. I have no other debit at moment.
Think credit limit rise in 2012/2013. Is there a away of asking for all statements/ correspondence? A template letter?
Thanks
I rent local authority I am update with all bills.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so (1) hasnt worked – I suggest you now go onto (2) and ask your local Citizens Advice with help with write offs.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So one possible series of actions for you are in order:
1) ask for the CCA agreement – if it cannot be produced the debt is uneneforceable and you do not need to do anything else.
2) if (1) does not work, go to your local Citizens Advice and ask for them for help to ask to have the debt written off. You can do this yourself by supplying medical evidence (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/) but as that article says this is more likely to succeed if you get help from a debt adviser.
3) if they refuse to write off the Debt, Citizens Advice can look at whether you could have a Debt Releleif order which would clear the debt.
S says
Hello
I’ve asked for section 78 of the CCA act 1974 Barclay, I also asked for a copy of all statements and transaction for the account. Sent before Xmas. They have sent me a “reconstructed copy of credit agreement together with a copy of the terms of credit agreement as in accordance with sec (82)1 of the act. This is a statement of terms of your agreement with us and incorporation of any variations to the terms made since you entered into this agreement however interest rates fees and charges are set out in the agreement may differ from those we discussed with you due to the current state of your account.
Statement of account:
The have put a current credit limit £0.00
Current outstanding balance today is £4401.02 and the outstanding balance is now due.
And a not on bottom say enclosed is a short form cancellation, historic terms and conditions.
I have no idead what this means also on bottom of every page says restricted internal.
There is a date on Barclays card conditions of 12/7/06.
S says
Hello
I did do a affordable complaint at one point because I’ve had trouble on and off with them could I 1st complaint to ombudsman?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can make an affordability complaint. But it has to go to Barclaycard forst, only after 8 weeks can it go to the ombudsman. A LOT of Barclaycard complaints have to go to the ombudsman and then they are not speedy.
The reason I am not suggesting this is you need this debt cleared, not reduced. For most people having a balance of £4401 cut by a thousand or even two is great news but that still leaves you with a debt you cannot pay. So it’s probably better (simpler, faster) to ask for a r
write off and then go for a Debt Relief Order if the write off is rejected.
S says
Hello
Sorry I believe I’ve already made a affordable complaint they said wouldn’t accept it because I’d paid for a holiday on my card. I made aware of my autism in this letter. I didn’t get a written response just a letter saying wanted speak to me about it. And wittered on about repayment plan which would take 20yrs to pay off.
So would ombudsman not be useful?
Citizen advice for help writing it off?
Barclays card seem to want to be all about reducing and a partial settlement but want to know incomes and out going s
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago was Barclaycard’s reply to your complaint?
S says
Hello
The complaint pre pandemic maybe 2018.
Thanks s
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then I am afraid you are way past the 6 months you had to go to the Ombudsman. This is now not an option for you, the Ombudsman will not take this case.
If you make another complaint to Barclaycard they will just reply that they have already answered this complaint.
S says
Hello
I don’t think I worded letter or had a template to help me worth doing again more clearly?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can try, but Barclaycard may well reject it and FOS refuse to look at it. it’s up to you if you want to do this but it may take quite a few month.
In any case, it seems to me that you have a better option – try to get a write off.
John says
a follow up from my post on the 23rd Nov. My adjudicator just got back to me regarding this credit card (£500 starting credit limit and limit increased to £800) he says the following
“Barclays have responded and agreed to settle your complaint in the way I recommended. This means they will refund all charges and interest that were applied to your account on any balances that were above £500 (the amount of the initial credit limit).
This refund amounts to £594.66 and Barclays have advised that your current balance is £769.11, and the refund will leave you with a balance of £174.45. Additionally Barclays have stated that you already have a repayment plan set up, so you can continue to pay in line with the repayment plan until the remaining balance is fully settled.”
I still feel like I should’ve been awarded a refund for all fees and charges I paid since the started of the credit card. However this is a big chunk of money for me in my present situation. Im wondering what the likelihood would be of me asking for an ombudsman to make a final decision and the ombudsman then ruling against me for both parts of the complaint. Any idea how likely this would be? basically do I stick or twist!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was the account opened? when was the credit limit increased?
At the point the limit was increased, what were your finances like?
John says
the account was opened Nov 2017, the credit limit increase was Sept 2018. At the point the limit was increased my finances were terrible, I had no income and the Barclaycard went overdrawn (over £500) in 3 of the 4 months leading up to the limit increase. which the adjudicator has referenced. Its a big difference in terms of money refunded if the ombudsman rules in my favour of upholding the complaint for both the credit card opening and credit limit increase. Just wouldn’t want to risk missing out on the £594 refund if there was a decent chance the ombudsman would disagree with the adjudicator. My gut feeling is this wouldn’t happen but just wanted a 2nd opinion, have you ever seen an ombudsman overrule an adjudicator? cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In this case you can argue that all the interest should be refunded from the point the limit was increased. Not just the interest on the over the initial limit part.
In theory an Ombudsman can make any decision. For all types of FOS cases, FIS says they accept the adjudicator decision in 90% of cases. But I see far more cases here where someone has got more going to the Ombudsman than less. Far more.
John says
That’s interesting, I never thought to ask for all the interest and charges on the whole limit after sept 18. Wish I knew what that figure is but must be atleast double what I’ve been offered. Just wondering how I should word/argue this? Barclaycard should’ve frozen my account as the evidence shows I was financially in trouble months before sept 18 and should’ve done something then to help me and instead they contributed to my situation becoming even worse?
Yeh that 90% figure rings a bell, I must have read that somewhere.
So basically I should ask the adjudicator to consider ruling for me to be refunded all interest and charges from sept 2018. He’s been pretty stubborn so far on this complaint so I expect him to say no. If he does say no then I should ask for the ombudsman to make a final ruling.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. Point out Barclaycard must have looked at your account when they increased the limit, so at that point they should have really our sitwas getting worse and offered forbearance.
John says
so far not so good, waited 4 days for him to reply and it appears he hasn’t fully understood my suggestion for an alternative refund of all fees/interest for the full credit limit after the limit increase in Sep 2018, this is getting really frustrating to deal with now! he said the following
“You have stated that you think Barclays should refund all of the interest and charges from when the account opened (for the whole £800 limit) because you were already in financial trouble when considering you for the limit increase, as they would’ve looked at the card history for the previous 6 months and seen you were exceeding your limit. However this and other points you made in your email all refer to after the account was opened, so I cannot suggest that Barclays should refund all the interest and charges from the account opening because of issues that occurred after the account opened as they couldn’t have known that at that time.
Therefore having considered your email I still think the offer they made to settle your complaint is fair. If you decide that you want an ombudsman to review your complaint then let me know by 14 December 2022 and I will arrange your case to be moved on for a final decision. However if you decide to accept the offer I will advise Barclays to process the offer and make the refund. “
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that you would like to clarify – you are suggesting that at the moint the limit was increased in xxxx, at that point BVC should have realised that you were in finacial trouble. So they should not have offered the increase and they should have also offered forbearance from that point. So the redress from then should be a refund of all interest from then, not just on the amount they increazsed your limit by.
Ask for this to be passed to the Ombudsman.
John says
yeh ive replied to him explaining the misunderstanding hes made, hopefully he understands this time what ive suggested. Ive also said to him if he doesnt agree to just pass the case to ombudsman for a final decision, thanks for the help
Deano says
Just wanted to share a small victory. Following the advice on this website I’m on my second victory with the FOS for unaffordable lending. My first was an “out of time” complaint agains Vanquis (opened in 2008, had a DMP at the time) and more recently with Barclaycard.
Was given a card with a £6k limit back in 2017 when I was already about £40k in-debt. Barclays argued it was a card with balance transfer offers that would have improved my situation, but investigator took the view that they couldn’t guarantee I would have used it for that and with my other repayment commitments, it was unaffordable.
The interest refunded was tiny (as I did make use of the offers) but more importantly, the defaults will be removed as soon as the account is finished.
Both complaints were initially dismissed by the lenders (as have all the others) although in Vanquis’ defence, they partially upheld the “in time” element of the complaint and refunded a few hundred pounds. Barclays just said “nope”.
Two down, nine more to go!
Ernest says
Good evening Sara… just need your advice on this 2 credit from capitalone both default .. l just received decision from adjudicator today… l have 2 with them first card starting limit £200 and then increased to £800 and then 1550.. adjudicator advice capitalone to refund all the interest l paid from £800 to 1550
And second £1250 not increment… but adjudicator advice capitalone to refund all the interest and charges l paid .
Do you think is good offer pls? I was thinking they will refund all the interest on the first from £200 to £1550
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so this is an improvement on the previous offer discussed here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/comment-page-38/#comment-497525.
I would like to double check what the current offer is:
– no refund from the start when the limit was £200
– from 2016 when the limit was put up to £800 to 2018 when it was put up to 1550 refund the interest charged on the increased limit, not the full amount
– from 2018 when the limit was raised to 1550, refund all interest.
Is that correct?
Ernest says
Yes improvement on the previous offer..
From 2018 till date £800 to £1550 yes is correct but can l ask for interest to refund 2016 from £200 increases to £800 . Is that a good offer from 2018 till date pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was your situation in 2016 when the limit was increased to 800? What would the credit card lender have seen if they had looked at your account and your credit record?
Ernest says
My situation in 2016 is ok that time
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then that’s why the investigator said the increase was ok at that point.
John says
as I expected the adjudicator is sticking to his guns, so I’ve instructed him to send this complaint to the ombudsman for a final decision.
The ombudsman will likely agree with the adjudicator but its worth a go, heres hoping.
“I understand what you are requesting and how you think the complaint should be settled. However, just to explain my view further, as I think Barclays shouldn’t have increased your credit limit to £800, I therefore think that any interest and charges that were applied to balances above the previous limit of £500 should be refunded, as I don’t think they should’ve increased your limit above this amount.
I would not recommended that interest and charges should be refunded for the whole £800 as I don’t think it was wrong for Barclays to have granted a credit limit of £500, if I was to ask that all interest and charges be refunded that would mean that I think that the initial £500 limit shouldn’t have been given which I do not. The only time I would recommend all of the interest and charges should be refunded on a credit card account is if I think the account shouldn’t have been opened at all, and this the approach our service takes as a whole.
If I was to ask Barclays to refund the interest and charges for the whole £800 after the credit limit increase which was in August 2018, as you requested, I would then be saying it was wrong for them to grant the the initial £500 limit which isn’t the case”
Mike_p says
Hello Sara,
I made a complaint to Nationwide about some credit limit increases they gave me – to £9600 in 2012, £11,500 in 2014 and £14,000 in 2015. Nationwide rejected the complaint, and so did the adjudicator, but they ombudsman has found in my favour for the 2015 increase. They have said that Nationwide should refund all interest over the £11,500, is there any argument I can make to say it should be all interest from the 2015 increase?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was your situation in 2015? What would the lender have sen if they had looked at your credit record and anything else they knew about you?
Mike_p says
They knew I’d been taking multiple cash advacnes, and from my credit report they’d have seen that I had other card debt of over £20,000 that had been increasing continually for the previous 5 years. The ombudsman mentioned those points in her preliminary assessment, I wondered if there was any argument I could make the refund being all interest instead before she makes her final decision.
This account is unenforcable so I’m not making any payments. In a prveious complaint about Tesco they were told to backdate the default to the date of the credit limit increase as that’s what led to the default, can I ask for the same here or would it not be possible to backdate a default that far? (the default data is over 7 years after the increase date)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think the fact that they could see the multiple cash withdrawals from their own records reinforces the point that they should have realised you were in difficulty then and stopped charging interest.
They can backdate the default date to whatever is reasonable. If it is over 6 years old, the defaulted record will then automatically drop off.
Mike_p says
I have replied saying the decision should be that all interest should be refunded, and that the default should be backdated to then.
S says
Hello
I spoke before about my debit I have card Barclay card as removed from credit file removed as was placed on 16/11/16 and automatically get removed aft 6yrs they say I still owe the money and put a hold on account so won’t get letters or sent to debit collector. I have outstanding balance of £4401.02p.
They talked about partial settlement and need a expensive form filling out. How do I work out roughly a partial settlement offer so I have a idea? Many thank s
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did you last make a payment to this debt?
It is still with Barclaycard? Not sold to a debt collector?
Do you remember when the account was opened?
S says
Hi
Don’t remember when opened its still with Barclays card. I had a payment plan but too much wanted account on hold not getting interested on.
Thanks s
May be 15yrs ago.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it is unusual for a lender not to have sold a card debt that defaulted so long ago.
The following is speculation on my part but it may be a ueful angle for you to investigate. …
I am wondering if the paperwork Barclaycard has is defective in some way so it can’t be taken to court. This may mean the debt is unenforceable and you don’t need to pay anything. Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/ – that is aimed at debts sold to a debt collector but as the article says its worth a try for very old debts like yours.
S says
Hi
Could it be due to health kisses or mental health that I’ve informed the.
They did say if I do a income/expenditure for a partial settlement could offer me a discount off it but would have to be in writing. That what said to me
Thanks s
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s possible. It’s up to you if you want to ask for the CCA – I am not saying this will work but if it does it resolves your problem.
S says
Hello
I read part of that CCA hyper link. What dose have to do with not selling debit on or not paying it back?
Thanks s
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read the whole article.
If Barclaycard cannot produce a true copy of the CCA agreement fro your card, then it is unenforceable in court. And you don’t have to pay anything because if you don’t, there is nothing they can do.
S says
Hello
I’ve had a think the card was opened before 2006. Opened it online.
I had a dro but it’s wasn’t included as the balence on card at time was zero and I wasn’t using it
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is worth a try.
Gary says
Hi Sara slightly off topic but last month November my 118 118 went from 1200 to 2500
This month I got a notice of interest increase from 29% to 41,% 60 days notice
I don’t owe on the card and I have refused the increase and closed it
Seems like trap to me huge increase then a hike is that legal such Huge increases
Not
Sara (Debt Camel) says
massive. I will be writing an article about credit card interest rate hikes and 118 was already on my list of firms to mention!
John says
bit of a vague question but after a case is passed to an ombudsman for a final decision how long on average does it usually take? are we talking weeks or like a month+? thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
a month+ usually.
Mike_p says
My Barclaycard and Nationwide complaints both took 10 months to get a decision after being passed to an ombudsman.
Lou7 says
My complaint about Vanquis was not upheld by the adjudicator and was put in the queue in august. I haven’t heard anything else apart from the adjudicator has left the company and someone else will update me when things are starting to be sorted. Is this a normal wait time?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask In January what is happening to it.
Lou7 says
Thanks Sara. I will do that.
Mara says
Hi Sara
I hope you are well
I have sent affordability complaints to Capital One and to Barclaycard on 27.10.22. It will be exactly 8 weeks on 22.12.2022. I haven’t received any response from either companies. Should I be expecting anything or just raise a complaint with FOS on 22.12? Or do I need to follow up?
Thank you in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you received any acknowledgment of the complaints?
Mara says
No. I haven’t. I have used the emails (taken fro this website) and they definitely work.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then i think you should ring them up and ask why you haven’t yet had an acknowledgement of your complaint.
Mara says
I will try to do that tomorrow (the lines are closed on the weekend). Meanwhile, can I follow up on my email?
What is the procedure in case they have missed it out? Will I need to wait another 8 weeks for the decision or I can complaint to FOS right away?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Find out what has happened first… there may not be a problem.
you can send another email but as that isnt likely to be answered over the weekend you will still have to phone tomorrow,
Mara says
Hi Sara. I have managed to get in touch with Barclaycard. They are saying that it has been resolved , and the cased is closed. I was sending a complaint regarding the Barclays overdraft in September 2022 ,and received the refund in the beginning of October 2022. Then I have sent a separate complaint for Barclaycard on 27.10.22. They are saying that it has been closed, but I haven’t received anything by e-mail ( I don’t get any mail as I am not in UK). What can I do in this case?
Thank you in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask them if they have sent a letter and if they have, ask them to send you a copy by email.
John says
some good news received this morning, had an affordability complaint with the ombudsman for a vanquis credit card. Initially the adjudicator ruled it was fair for vanquis to only refund the interest and fees on the credit limit increase from March of this year (£350 increase) so would’ve only refunded me pennies. This morning I received an email saying vanquis have now agreed to refund all interest and fees for the full limit (£500 from july 2017 to march of this year then £850 till the present day) and the full life of the credit card. This is a massive difference in the refund amount, it took me probably 3 hours to collate a lot of evidence to appeal against the adjudicators initial decision but was well worth it, cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well done!
Jen says
Hi Sara,
I had 3 accounts with JD Williams that were sold to Lowell. Lowell regularly and they offered me a 70% discount, I accepted (have emails and screenshots of what was owed after the discount offer). I have been paying off the discounted balances as agreed. I had a complaint against JD and won that with the FOS. I called Lowell to ask if discounted balances would be used when money came from JD, they told me on 3 occasions that the discounted balances would be used (I have transcripts via SAR). Meaning I would get around £2000 refunded to me once balances settled. When the money was transferred from to Lowell they used the full balances, not the discounted ones. I called and asked them and they said something about final payment, not balance adjustment, so tough luck to me.
I then put a complaint into Lowell, as had I known this I would have settled the balances (as I would have the money from JD immediately and not be financially stuck doing so), but due to their advice I didn’t. I now still owe them the rest of the full balances with no discount. They took 8 weeks for the complaint to tell me no, then when I asked if they had listened to the calls they said they hadn’t. They then opened a new complaint, taking a further 2 weeks, to say they heard advisors telling me the ‘wrong info’ and upheld my complaint, but not offering a refund of the amount, just £150 compensation.
Should I send this to the FOS based on Lowell not sticking to their agreement?
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this is very irritating but actually you haven’t lost money by not settling this earlier.
Here is a made-up example with 3 different cases to show this. (I am ignoring the 8% but that makes no difference).
————————————————————-
Case (1) – you have cleared the debt with the debt collector
Suppose the lender calculated you were owed a refund of £2500 because they had added £2500 in interest at the point the debt was sold.
Suppose a debt of £800 had been sold. After the debt was sold, no more interest would have been added. And you have paid the debt collector in full, all £800.
There is no debt left to be settled with the refund and you have paid all the interest the lender calculated. So once the lenders checks this with the debt collector, you get the £2500 in cash.
As you have paid the debt collector £800, you are better off by 2500-800 =£1700
—————————————————————————-
Case (2) – you haven’t started paying the debt collector anything
Same refund calculated of £2500 and same debt sold £800.
Suppose you haven’t paid anything and that there is no agreement to settle the debt so you still owed £800.
The lender would then use £800 of the refund to settle the remaining debt to the debt collector and you get £1700 in cash.
You are better off by the same amount as in case 1.
————————————————————————
Case (3) – you have settled the debt for 25% of its value
Same refund calculated of £2500 and same debt sold £800
Suppose the debt collector offered you the chance to settle this for £200 and you have paid this, so the debt owed is zero.
You may think you will get the £2500 refund and have only paid out £200 so you are better off by £2300
But that isn’t what would happen. Because the lender’s original calculation that you paid £2500 in interest was wrong – that is only right if the debt is settled in full. As it is, you have only paid £2500 – £600 (the discount for settlement) = £1900 in interest.
Basically you cannot get a refund of interest that you have not paid because of the settlement.
So you will only get a refund of £1900 and you have paid out £200 to settle it – so you are better off by 1900 – 200 = £1700 – the same amount as in cases 1 and 2.
———————————————————————-
If you have paid the debt collector something and there is no agreement to settle, the case would be somewhere between case 1 and case 2 and you would still be better off by £1700.
If you have an agreement to settle but the settlement hasn’t been paid, it is ignored, because it would just have shifted you to case 3.
———————————————————————-
So annoying but you haven’t lost out.
Jen says
Due to their advice I did lose out in the end though. They said they would use the discounted balance. Can they not be held accountable for this? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no seriously you haven’t. If they had used the discounted balance, your refund would have been reduced because the discount means that you would not have paid so much interest
Jen says
OK, thank you for your help. It’s hugely appreciated.
Jo says
Hello,
I have had a complaint about irresponsible lending by Barclaycard upheld by the FOS. As final settlement Barclaycard will: –
• Refund interest and charges above the £3,900.00 credit limit
• Pay 8% simple interest if applicable
• Remove any adverse data from the credit file
I have copy statements obtained through a subject access request so can see all the applicable charges/interest etc. My question please, Sara is when refunding the interest charges over the £3,900 will it be all the interest or is it proportionate (so if my statement shows I owed £4,000 is the interest refunded for the whole £4,000 or just for the £100 that has exceeded the £3,900)? Also, will Barclaycard send me a breakdown of how they have worked out the refund?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It will be proportionate – this means the refund will be much smaller than you might hope. You are unlikely to be sent a helpful breakdown.
What was your financial situation when they upped the limit? If it was bad, have you argued to your adjudicator that you should get a full refund from that point as B should have seen you were in significant difficulty?
Jo says
Thank you.
I originally used your template letter asking for all charges/interest to be removed from the last increase which was in 2018. When B said no to this I asked for my information and collated the details about increases. When I did this I realised that in 2009, B increased my credit limit to an amount which was more than half my annual income so I revised my complaint to include increases from that point. Eventually the FOS said that B should refund interest/charges from 2004 when my credit limit was increased from £3,900 to £4,900 (reaching £13, 700 in 2018) so I have over 18 years’ worth of interest to look at. I have ‘guesstimated’ this but was worried about the proportionate aspect so will have to have another look at this. Many thanks for your advice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh that sounds like the refund will be pretty good anyway as the limit went so high and its over such a long period
darius says
Hi Sarah,
I have a cc open with Aqua Newday at the max credit limit of 2450 since 2021. If I was to submit an affordability complaint and was successful, the refund and repayment will apply to my current balance, but what happens after? I still have to pay the monthly repayments with interest which is still unaffordable to me, can I log a second complaint when the balance fully clears?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you are left with a balance and the decision was to refund you all the interest from a certain date, then repaying the balance should also be interest free (they would close the card – it wouldn’t turn into a free card for life!)
Mara says
Hi Sara,
I have a question. Could it be possible that my complaint wouldn’t reach the company? I got in touch with Capital One and asked them why I haven’t received the final response, even though it has been 8 weeks. They have started saying that they never received anything from me (even though I have sent it twice) . The email is correct and nothing came back. I have sent it again from my gmail account- no response yet. My question is can I send the complaint to FOS without final response from the company? It has been more than 8 weeks, I have called them, and even after talking to them for an hour I still don’t have a response.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did Capital One ask you to send it again? Or did they say they would now look at it?
Mara says
Yes, they did ask me to send it again. I have resent the complaint a few times already. Should I wait another 8 weeks for the answer? Calling them took me nowhere, just waisted an hour on the phone.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask them to confirm that they have got it. Did it go to the same email address as before? And ask for a reply in 2 weeks or you will be sending it to the Ombudsman.
Mara says
Thank you, Sara. Once I had done what you suggested, they have sent a reply 20 minutes later. The email said that the complaint was received, and they need up to 8 weeks to respond. I hope it won’t take so long
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could send this to FOS now but it’s probably faster in the long run to wait for their response.
Lou7 says
If the adjudicatior didn’t agree with my complaint to Vanquis, what is the likelihood that the ombudsman will be the same?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why do you think the adjudicator was wrong? People have won cases by taking these to the Ombudsman.
If you think the adjudicator has overlooked something, or misunderstood it, or reached the wrong conclusion, you need to reply to the adjudicator saying this and asking for this information to be passed on to the Ombudsman.
Lou7 says
Yeah I did Sara. I made a list of all the points that I wanted taken into consideration and sent it off, then the adjudicator sent it to the ombudsman. I just wasn’t sure if they usually agree with the adjudicator decision.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Most of the time, but that is because most of the time the adjudicator is right! Plenty of people here have won cases at the Ombudsman level.
Lou7 says
Thanks Sara
Lou7 says
Just had an email from the adjudicator who has taken over my complaint and he said the ombudsman wants my credit report 3 months before the account with Vanquis was opened which was 26th may 2020. How do I get this information to send them? Any help would be appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Download your statutory Transunion report https://www.transunionstatreport.co.uk/CreditReport/AboutYou
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that is your current report. You can’t get a historic one. But it will be fine as it shows what was happing back in 2020
Lou7 says
Sorry for being a bit thick with technology but How do I send this to them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
attach it to an email?
Lou7 says
Hi Sara,
Is there another credit report I can send? I managed to log into the transunion one and when I attached it to an email, the link was just like the one you put in the comments box and all the details have to be filled in again. So I tried to log back in to the credit report via the link and all it keeps saying now is it can’t verify me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though you didnt manage to download the report. You can try Experian and Equifax, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/
Or you can try Credit KArma, which is a different report on TransUnion data but I don’t know if you can down loans that. If you cant you may need to screen shot the pages and send them, which will be tedious.
Jason says
Hi Sara, sorry if this is in the wrong section.
I made an affordable lending complaint against Drafty which they have partially accepted but before accepting, I want to know if it’s worth thinking about going to Ombudsman first as things just don’t seem right. I’ll explain…. My income during all of the periods I am mentioning was between £800-1050 depending on overtime worked and I was a heavy gambler during this time (approx £300-400pm was on this and had been for a while before applying)
May 2018 I took out £1000 credit
– outgoings were approx £200 on credit cards, £200 on a loan and then amounts between £50 and £200 on a payday loan depending on if it was the final installment or not. £200 rent and then other outgoings like food etc. I was living with my parents then so it was random smaller amounts. The biggest though is that I was deep into my high £4,900 bank overdraft, very often nearing the total.
April 2019 they offered an increase of approx £550 which I accepted and my income and outgoings were still roughly the same.
Then for the next couple years they offered smaller increases which I accepted totalling to £2200.
Each time I accepted an increase my outgoings were very similar or if not increasing and income around the same.
I would withdraw all of my credit line almost consistently until last year when I was earning a better wage, but still needed to every now and then.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what have they offered you?
Jason says
Sorry Sara, I had alot more to say but would only allow me to put so much so was waiting for response from you so I could say the rest.
They offered me refund on all interest plus 8% from April 2019 onwards so they’ve said the initial £1000 in May 2018 was affordable… they also said that I had told them I earn £1280pm and outgoings were approx £400. I think I may have lied as desperate for the money but they said it was verified by third party, if it was a credit agency wouldn’t it have flagged that I had more outgoings?
They’ve offered me £1982 which is interest plus 8% tax on what Im assuming is of £1,200 as they said that the first £1,000 was affordable.
I have the entire amount still to pay off and they’ve said that if I accepted that offer only £230 approx will be left or if I don’t (ie go to Ombudsman) then payments will continue as normal as I can’t really afford to pay around £250 to them next month and following months until this gets sorted?
HB says
Hi Jason, I was in a similar position to you i.e drafty accepted wrong doing but only offered me £500 as opposed to £1600. Adjudicator suggested I decline the offer and send it to the ombudsman which I have done. It seems the FCA are holding talks with Drafty to try and thrash out a set refund method as they are under offering on every case. I have been waiting a while but hoping its not too much longer before they come to an agreement and can start paying out the refunds
Jason says
Thanks for the info, I sent them another email this morning, I’ll keep this thread updated. How long has it actually been now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would send your case to FOS in a week if they don’t come back with a better offer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you add up all the withdrawals and the payments you have made from April 2019. What do each of those numbers come to. Just the cash movements, ignore whather Drafty say they are interest or principal.
Do your bank statements show evidence of gambling?
Jason says
I was able to view each transaction until I made the complaint and then they suspended the account. I can only download statements or pay now.
Yes, gambling is on the bank statements as all online.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
work from your bank statements. If you cant do that, Ask Drafty to give you a statement of your account showing all the payments and withdrawals – say you need this in order to consider their offer.
I suggest you should also be making a separate complaint to you bank about the overdraft – read https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/ which explains about overdraft complaints and has a specific template letter for them.
Jason says
Thanks Sarah, will do. Regardless of whether I go to the Ombudsman or not, this offer will always stand won’t it?
Just quickly, the year before in 2017, with all very similar financial situation, Likely Loans gave me a loan of £2k and allowed me to top up 6 months later with another £2k. Is that worth an affordability complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In theory the Ombudsman can make any decision. In practice when a lender has offered a refund for some of the lending, the Ombudsman only looks at the rest. So an offer seems to only be at risk if it is a “goodwill” offer of £50 to go away, not one that is a refund for specific lending..
I am suggesting you get those numbers for two reasons:
– so you have some facts and aren’t making this decision blind
– because other people have said that Drafty has calculated a refund wrong.
It’s definitely worth complaining to Likely Loans. Use the template on this other page https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ and send it to the Ombudsman if they reject it.
Jason says
Hi Sara, so since April 2019 I have withdrawn a total of £4,116.63 and paid £6,807.92
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large is your balance at the moment? How large was it it in April 2019?
Jason says
I currently owe the entire amount £2200 although it’s saying as of right now I am owing £2263 because the daily interest is occurring until I tell them I accept their offer.
In April 2019 I owed them the whole £1000 balance and then they increased my limit by about £560 halfway through the money and I immediately withdrew the cash. They then increased it by about £300 here and then over the next few years and now it’s at my current amount £2200.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so in Apr 19 you owed 1000. That has to be repaid.
Since then you have borrowed 4116 more that has to be repaid (the current balance includes this amount, it is not an extra amount owed).
That is a total of 5116
But no interest is to be charged from April 18. so 5116 is all you have to repay. And you have paid 6807.
So they should clear your balance. AND refund you 6807-5116 = 1691 in cash.
I suggest you go back to them and say by your calculations this is what should happen and the case goes to the Ombudsman if they do not agree to settle it on that basis
Jason says
Thanks Sara for this advice.
I did originally think this but because they said that the first £1000 was affordable (which I had between May 2018 and April 2019) isn’t part of the interest I’ve been paying ever since April 2019 from that original £1000? So effectively even though my total credit line and balance is £2,200, part of that is the original £1,000 which they will have deemed as affordable thus I will have been paying interest on that, amongst the rest for the past 4 and half years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was the wording in their reply to you?
and if that is what they did mean, then they should have realised in April 19 that you were in finacial troble so instead of giving you a credit limit increase, they should have offered you forbearance – thats the regulatory term for helping you which in this case means stopping adding interest.
Jason says
Based on the above information, we conclude that proper and proportionate affordability checks were conducted at the initiation of the credit line. We also continued to check that the line of credit was affordable. However, we can see there is a possibility that allowing the continued use of the line beyond April 30, 2019 may not have been sustainable in the long term. So, we are partially agreeing to your complaint To put things right, We will: • Refund all interest and fees incurred due to redraws after April 30, 2019
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok that is quite specific language I haven’t come across before.
Remind me about how the flows of Drafty work. Do they take back the whole amount (if they can) and then you just redraw it each month?
Jason says
I was thinking the fact they said they maybe shouldn’t have allowed the ‘continued use’ of the line past April 2019 would mean, like you said previously, that they should have suspended my account then completely. Rather than continue even with the original £1000 interest.
No, you have your given amount ie. £1000 then you can withdraw as much as you want at a time and you pay back a minimum amount each month, kind of like a credit card. So if your balance is £1000 and you withdraw the whole lot at once, you’d pay back for example £50 that month, like £30 would be interest with £20 going back into your account, so then once you’ve done that you can immediately withdraw £20 again for example
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I was thinking the fact they said they maybe shouldn’t have allowed the ‘continued use’ of the line past April 2019 would mean, like you said previously, that they should have suspended my account then completely. Rather than continue even with the original £1000 interest.
yes I agree.
Jason says
Thank you for your help with this Sara, I’ll go back to Drafty and let you know the outcome.
Jason says
Sorry Sara, just one thing I’ve noticed as I’ve been working out to what to say to them and looking at the past statements…
Between May 2018 (initially opening and £1000 limit) and April 2019 I paid a total of £627.99 of interest.
So if they’re saying that they’re refunding everything AFTER April 2019 until now which was total payments of £6,807.92 then subtracted the £2,200 I currently owe plus £627.99 of that first year interest = £2,979.93 and that’s what I should be owed?
Or am I completely calculating that wrong?
Jason says
Hi Sara, so Drafty have told me that they believe their calculations to be correct and they stand with their decision on the forbearance as they would only have done this back in April 2019… When I asked that I thought a complaint is to put things to what they should have been post April 2019 they disagreed. Their explanations were a bit baffling so I had to ask them to explain further and still they kind of dodged certain things.
So I will be forwarding this to Ombudsmen.
Ernest says
Good morning Sara.. just want to thank you again.. l got the refund for both credit cards capitalone and Ocean credit card….. capitalone accept Adjudicator decision for both credit cards.
Ben says
Hi Sara,
I am looking for some advice. I have a Virgin Money credit card with a current balance of £4585.53 with a credit limit of £5600. I opened the account in February 2019 with an initial limit of £2800. They increased the limit to £5600 in January 2020 which I believe may have been irresponsible as at that time I already had a £13000 personal loan with Tesco and a Barclaycard credit card with a balance of £1156 and a credit limit of £1200. At the time bank statements would show regular gambling transactions/ activity. The question is if I was to complain about the credit limit increase to Virgin Money what is the likelihood of success and what affect would it have on this account? All of the above accounts are up to date and I have no missed payments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so the Tesco loan was taken out after the Virgin account was opened? What date? Was this affordable?
when Virgin increased your limit, were there any problems showing on your credit record?
Ben says
It was yes, I opened the Virgin account in January 2019 and the Tesco loan in October 2019, before the credit limit increase in January 2020. It was at the time yes as I was always up to date with payments, but I was yo-yo’ing between maxing out my credit limits to pay for gambling and then refinancing my loans to cover the credit cards.
I don’t believe so no, but my credit report would have showed I took out a £13,000 Tesco loan and already had £1156 of my available £1200 on my Barclaycard Credit Card.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“It was at the time yes as I was always up to date with payments”
That is not the definition of affordable. If you could only keep up with payments by refinancing other debts, then it was not affordable.
I suggest you should make affordability claims about both the Tesco loan (use the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/) and the Virgin credit card (use the template in the article above). For both of the complaints, send 3 months of bank statements before and 3 months after that credit application.
Ben says
Thank you so much for your help Sara, I really appreciate it.
One final question, as I still have both of these accounts open and I am still making payments, will this claim have any impact on them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not if you carry on making the normal monthly payments while the claims go through. If you stop paying or ask to pay less, this will affect your credit record – although if you later win the affordability complaint all negative marks on your credit record will be removed.
Ben says
Brilliant, thank you Sara.
I have sent off the complaint to Virgin and am in the process of creating one for Tesco, but I am insure of what I am asking for with the loan still being in place. Am I asking for the interest back that I have paid since taking it out?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just ask for a refund of interest. If you win the complaint, the balance will be reduced so you only repay in total what you borrowed.
How much did you borrow? How much have you paid so far, ignore if it is labelled interest or principal, just the total amount of money.
Ben says
It is not letting me reply to your comment Sara, so I have replied here.
That makes sense, thank you for clarifying that.
I borrowed £13,000, this was to pay off my £9,000 Barclays Loan, £2,500 Virgin Credit Card and my £1,100 overdraft. I have paid approximately £6,000 so far.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then if you win the claim the balance will be reduced to 13000-6000=7000 and you will be able to repay that at a more affordable rate.
Have you also oooked at a complaint about the Barclays loan?
Ben says
Ah that makes sense, thank you for clarifying that.
I haven’t no. The original Barclays Loan I took out before I had the issues with the credit card was to pay off an existing car finance loan I had with Santander, so I didn’t have the money issues then that I did when I took out the Tesco loan, so not sure if I could make a complaint there.
I have sent off the complaints to Virgin and Tesco, how long does it normally take them to get back to you?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you know when your problem really began. If the car finance was fine and you just refinance it to make it cheaper or to clear a balloon payment then that sounds affordable.
Ben says
I think it was, I was absolutely fine at that time.
How long does it normally take for the companies to get back to you regarding complaints? I have emailed my complaints to the email addresses in the article you gave me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Banks normally take somewhere between a few days and 8 weeks.
(your comments weren’t deleted – they just have to be individually approved by me before they are published. And I have been busy in a meeting!)
Ben says
Ah I do apologise! I will leave it next time instead of reposting!
Brilliant, thank you. Will that be the same for Virgin?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Probably
Catherine says
Hi if a credit card company apologises for providing incorrect information and as an acknowledgment of the inconvenience caused says it will redress £100 should that be paid directly to me??
As they have said they will use the payment and credit it to my credit card account?
Whilst I appreciate I have a balance owed,the payment is for the inconvenience they caused,me having to make phone calls/live chat etc to resolve and it should be my choice surely if I want to use the payment towards the CC balance?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you can reasonably go back to them and say that… it isn’t really the sort of thing there are rules about.
Catherine says
Sorry Sara I don’t understand what you mean by that?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I mean that they haven’t broken a specific rule. But it sounds fair to me that if you have expenses you should get this in cash, so go back to them and say this.
Mara says
Hi Sara,
Got a reply today. They are refunding me 393.26 pounds and 75 pounds for inconvenience. Thank you so much for your help with that.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you think the 393 is reasonable?
Mara says
I think so. The card for for 500 pounds and they mentioned that this is interest. I am quite happy:)
Mara says
Hi Sara
I have a question about records /bank statements of my account with Barclaycard. I have recently raised a case with FOS against Barclaycard and my long term history with them goes back to 2011. Last year I still had an access to the records up from 2011 -2012. However, since autumn 2022- i can see statements only since 2019 or so. I am wondering if those records are destroyed, or case handler me can request those?
I have taken some screen shots of some old statements 2012-2014 where charges for multiple payday loans/catalogue charges are shown along with Barclaycard payments (not sure if this will help me)
I am just wondering how does it work with statements over 6 years
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know but it’s good you took some screen shots!
Mara says
Thank you .
Lloyd says
Hi Sara – I have emailed an affordability complaint to Santander for large loan and credit card accounts and they have responded with a reference but say email is not a safe way of dealing with complaints so intend to call me to discuss? Is this normal and should I agree to this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think these complaints are too complicated to talk through on the phone. You want them to review your complaint and reply so you can read the details. You could reply asking them if they have a specific question because you would be happy to reply to it, if not you would rather receive a reply to your complaint in writing and you prefer this by email.
PS Santander isn’t handling some complaints well at the moment, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/santander-overdraft-complaints/. don’t be surprised if they reject or make a poor offer, many have to go to the Ombudsman.
Kay says
Hi Sara, not sure if anyone else has asked this but couldn’t find anything in the comments, I had 3 credit cards open – Aqua- £300, Capital One – £1000 and Zopa – £200.
Capital One upheld my complaint and removed a default and refunded all fees paid. Zopa have just upheld the complaint and closed down the account refunding fees and removing missed payments. My Aqua account has been open since 2019 so is my longest account now on my credit file, I had 5 missed payments over 2019/2020 but clear over the past 2 years. I was debating putting a complaint in for unaffordable lending but I have read about it actually decreasing your score as the longest account will be removed, is this worth removing for the missed payments or leaving it? Also, hypothetically if I wanted to open another capital one credit card in a years time to continue to build my credit, would they accept it as I have removed an account with them and wouldn’t want me as a customer or would it be best to stay away from capital one now? Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know how much you have paid in interest on the Aqua card? You could ask them for this information – then you can make an informed decision about whether to try a complaint.
The credit score gains from having an old account are pretty small – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/credit-score-change/
which says “Keep a credit card for more than five years. This adds 20 points to your score.”
Kay says
Hi Sara, probably not much in interest to be fair, it’s more for the late payments to be removed as I am looking to get a mortgage in the next few years so trying to clean up my credit as much as I can.
Do you know anything about opening up a credit card with a provider who I have had uphold an affordability complaint or should I stay clear and look to open with a different provider? Thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My advice is to stay clear, why risk this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You may as well try with Aqua at FOS. You do NOT want to keep open an account which had payment problems.
Nicole says
Hi Sara, just after some advice on whether I have a complaint or not. I had a credit card with Vanquis and along with other debts entered a DMP in 2019 with a balance of £3500 ish, in 2020 this was sold to Arrow and in 2021 a partial settlement of £2200 made. I’ve paid no interest since 2019. Last summer I made an affordability compliant to vanquis, originally they fully upheld and requested the account back from Arrow. It was a headache of 5 months going back and fourth between Arrow & Vanquis, each other blaming each other for the delays! When the account finally returned in December as the original investigator had moved departments my complaint was reinvestigated and they decided to only partially upheld my complaint. I stood my ground and argued many points, including the strung out process and that it was originally fully upheld. Due to the headache process they again agreed to fully upheld but £939 was deducted as they didn’t honour the partial settlement I’d made with Arrow. Arrow have since said will get a department to email vanquis informing them of the previous settlement but this may not do anything. Thankfully I got Vanquis to fully upheld the complaint but if I hadn’t the redress only totalled £400 and that would leave me owing them £500 from the by back outstanding balance when prior to the complaint I owed £0. Could I re complain to vanquis for the £939 that Arrow had previously agreed in the settlement?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think so.. you are effectively asking for a refund of interest that you never paid because of the settlement.
Nicole says
Thanks for your reply! Regardless to the settlement though I wasn’t paying interest as I’ve been in a DMP since 2019? Understandably I know Vanquis paid me money after all this but if I hadn’t of complained I wouldn’t have owed them £900 due to the settlement with Arrow. During the by back process I was told by Arrow that it would transfer back to Vanquis as partially settled, so I wasn’t expecting the money owed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That isn’t relevant,. A correct settlement look at what interest you actually paid by taking the amount you repaid less the amount you borrowed, Vanquis would originally have assume you had settled with Arrow in full. But actually you paid a lot less. So the calulcation of the interest paid is a lot less.
Sara says
I used your template letter to advise Next they shouldn’t of increased my credit limit from £400 to £3000 within 3 months in 2017. They said it was a fair increase so I sent to the FOS who today have sided with me. I still owe £1300 but if they agree then this will be cleared
James says
Hi
This is good to hear, I got refunds from pay day lenders in 2020 & 2021 which cleared my debt & paid for my driving lessons & car
However I forgot about next I went from £800 limit to £5000, I was permanently maxed from 2010 – 2022 when I paid it all off earlier last year
How long did it take the ombudsman to pick your case up ?
Hayley says
Hi Sarah
I made an affordability complaint to Newday Regarding a fluid credit card we’re they had increased my limit twice which ended up of a limit of £2100, I currently have an Aqua card with them, I sent it to them on 20/11/22 which they acknowledged they got on 20/11/22 so the 15/01/23 would of been the 8 weeks, I called them earlier and the advisor said the complaints handler is still dealing with the complaint because he’s still waiting on some information, I said it’s over 8 weeks and he said I should hear back this week but it will also be taken into consideration that it’s been 8 weeks, Can they go over the 8 weeks? Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, but it’s worth waiting another week for their reply.
Hayley says
Hi Sara
So at the moment I’m still waiting for Newday to get in touch with me with there response to my complaint, I have just had a notification on my phone to say my current credit card with them has been removed from my Apple Pay, I tried to call them but the offices are shut until Monday, I got in touch with the online chat who told me my account has been closed by the complaints team and I have a balance of £2189 (which I have anyway) and I can’t use my card, I’m confused do you think they have upheld my complaint or can they refuse it and closed my account anyway?
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can’t guess from this what is happening to your complaint.
Darren says
I would be patient – I had 2 complaints with NewDay go on for 10 weeks and they were upheld. Turns out they underestimated the refund me so I referred to the FOS, took them almost 6 months to make initial contact to say they were looking into the case. If you refer to FOS because it’s over 8 weeks, you’re only going to massively delay it for yourself.
Hayley says
Thank you Darren, Yeah I will wait to see what Aqua says, fingers crossed.
Ernest says
Good evening Sara … just want to say thanks you again ..l got a letter from capitalone today and my Ocean credit both card £2500 .. all the interest the refunded cover both card .. and l stll have £38 refunded by cheque … both card paid off … and my credit corrected… and default removed. Thanks so much again
Rohannealice says
Hi again,
I complained to Tesco RE affordable lending on 27th October. On 21st December they got back to me saying this was rejected (after sending bank statements over) due to my income increasing each increase they made however they had my income vastly incorrect. Saying I earned 3k a month when at the time it was half that. I gave them 2 weeks to get back to me or said I’d take to ombudsman but still haven’t heard back.
In the meantime I’ve had family offer to give me inheritance early to write off the debt as im in such a bad state with it now all being from an abusive ex it’s dragging my mental health down.
My question is if I accept this and clear the card can I still fight it to give any monies back to my family or not?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Clearing the debt with a gift from family should not affect your claim.
Having said that, I would suggest perhaps holding off until you get the reply from Tesco first? Rather than complicate it now?
If they still reject your claim, send it to the Ombubmdsman and tell the Ombudsman the balance is being cleared by a gift from your family but you still want to complain about tesco’s decision to increase your credit limits.
Rohannealice says
Hi again,
Thanks this is good to hear.
I last heard from tescos 21st December and gave them two weeks and still not heard back. Would you suggest now taking to ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh yes. It’s worth giving them one chance to change their mind but not waiting around for ages. Because lenders rarely to change their decision.
Good luck
L says
Hi,
In 2020 I phoned CAB as I just couldn’t juggle the debts anymore. Literally was paying the minimum and then spending it instantly.
I was advised to email them all telling them I could pay them £0 each month and citing mental health and to just not pay them. I was told they would write the debt off for me without incurring any defaults ccjs etc
Doing so incurred a ton of late fees and interest charges, putting all accounts I had over their credit limits.
BarclayCard just defaulted the account without warning.
O2 sold the debt to Moorcroft (still paying)
NewDay did freeze the interest (still paying)
PayPal stopped interest for 3 months.
There are a few loan places I’d have to check statements and such…
But all of these accounts are from 2016 onwards (Not mentioning my previous debt issues as go back 11y), I’ve been unemployed since 2015.
Have EUPD and often spend without realizing not even joking, so all these places I am likely to have ticked to allow increases or even asked for increase when I needed more. Would it be worth me trying to seek refunds at all? My income has only risen inline with UC benefits, the accounts/cards were raised to around 2k, pretty sure some increased limit when I was just about to hit, all minimum payment or missed a month
Sorry it’s so lengthy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I was told they would write the debt off for me without incurring any defaults ccjs etc
I think you must have misunderstood what you were told. In 2020 most creditors (loans, cards, catalogue) would have given you two 3-month payment breaks without this affecting your credit record. But unless you supplied medical evidence they would be very unlikely to write off debts and if they did they would mark them as defaulted.
How much do you currently owe. Do you have any arrears on important bills? You can’t work because of your mental health?
Are you renting, private or social?
L says
No misunderstanding, was training to be an accountant and can’t have defaults and the like and mentioned this and she assured me that they do it all the time and no negative marks would be received.
Initially on ESA, I was kicked off when child was a month old for “not being depressed enough”, which is when the debt started as I had no income. They rejected my appeal and I just let them get away with it, didn’t have spare time with such a tiny human.
Legally signed off (won a tribunal) but for only 1 year so have to start that battle again next week. Mental and physical health an issue and has deteriorated more son.
Live with family
Overall I probably owe between 5-10k to multiple different places.
Overall just want to know if in my situation I’d be likely to receive any sorts of refunds.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so what happened to the accountant training?
L says
The course I was on told me that I wouldn’t be able to be an accountant if I had any defaults or other negative markers.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume you aren’t carrying on with this course?
Lou7 says
Hi Sara,
If the ombudsman agrees with the adjudicator, then am I right in thinking there is nothing more I can do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s right. (Well in theory you can reject a decision and go to court, but you would need to take professional advice on that.)
Lou7 says
Thanks Sara. I will just leave it then. I have to accept the decision by the 14.2.23 so will send them an email tomorrow.
MK says
Hi Sara, I hope you are able to assist. I complaint to Newday about Marble and Newday credit cards – i was in a lot of debt, in debt management and using the credit cards for cash withdrawals and gambling but they did not uphold my complaint so sent it to the Ombudsman and they as these questions which l am not sure how to reply:
What prompted you to make your complaint to the business?
When did you first become aware something may’ve gone wrong with the lending decision?
When you were using the Aqua cards to withdraw cash, and occasionally occurring overlimit fees, why didn’t you think the business had done anything wrong?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though Newday has said you have complained too late. But you are allowed to complain within 3 years of finding out you had a reason to complain.
You could say the following but make sure it is right for what you did and felt. I have just put it together from your previous posts but its very important that it is right for you and I may have missed something.
——————–
I complained because I found out a credit cards must think if the limit will be too high. I made a complaint to Amigo in 2020 but I thought that was just for loans. Since then I have found out more and I now think Newday should have seen my problems and not increased my credit limit but tried to help me so have now made these complaints. It is less than three years since my Amigo complaint.
I withdrew cash because I needed the money. I was very stressed by my problems and other debts but I never thought if Aqua had done something wrong as it was just something you could do on any credit card.
MK says
Thank you Sara l will keep you updated.
Helen S says
Hi Sara,
Santander, i had a £13k loan back in 2013. They then gave me a separate £8k loan in 2015 (1/2 way through paying 1st 1 off). They also gave £3.5 credit card in 2015.
This was on the back of 8.5k Barclaycard (opened 2011) and Natwest credit card £3.5k (2010) and various payday loans such as Wonga etc.
Question…. Can i win santander loans as far back as 2013? All those loans & credit cards still on my credit report… not the pay day loans though. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, make the claim – it may have to go to the Ombudsman as most banks reject older claims but the Ombudsman’s rules allow them to look at cases where you have been claiming within 3 years of becauoming aware you had a reason to complain.
I think you should look at making a single claim about the loans and credit card.
Who was your bank at the time?
Helen S says
My bank as in current account? Natwest. Still is.
Ive made the complaint as 1 job lot to Santander just now, i think i will end up at ombudsman, as you say.
Ive made payday complaints to the ombudsman before but that was because i saw What happened when wonga & Sunny went into administration. Genuinely didn’t realise the same could be done for bank loans & credit cards though!!! Do you think it will be easy to argue my case that i wasn’t aware until recently? Despite complaining about payday loans back in 2019?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know. You can reasonably point out that you thought payday loans were different because there were extra restrictions on them And that if you had known you could complaint, you would have done so!
Helen S says
Yep ok. I guess its worth a go because winning on 2 loans and a credit card would be pretty big ££ i would think and actually, that 24k of debt put me into such a bad spiral for many years.
Ive also just submitted £5k credit card complaint with Lloyds from 2017. Ive just found a credit report from 2019 so i hope that will help me.
Thanks Sara, i will let you know how i get on. Probably in 8 months time 😂.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am interested if anyone here has had a “persistent debt” letter from Lloyds or Halifax recently – in the last 6 months or so.
Rich says
I have had one from Halifax I might be able to get it from the app. I threw the original one away.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no problem. I have now seen a couple. Thanks for the offer.