Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t and the lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
P says
Put a complaint in to Ombudsman back in April against Next for a store card that constantly had it’s credit limit increased. They allowed some silly transactions for iPods and gift vouchers. Kept the account in persistent debt for nearly 15 years, They initially rejected the complaint at start of 2021 which is why went to the FO. Adjudicator appointed last week and asked for some bank statements and copy of credit file. Didn’t have a chance to respond to him yet as been busy but he emailed me today saying that Next had made a settlement offer of over £2k. I have gladly accepted this.
Can’t believe how this has come about. Does anyone know how long this process might take please?
Becky says
Hi Sara
Please could you help me understand how the 8 % simple interest is calculated please ,the adjudicator has upheld my complaint about irresponsible lending,obviously aqua don’t agree but it’s probably going to an ombudsman…would just like to work out how much simple interest is as the adjudicator says the card should never have been issued..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is the balance? and how much interest and charges have been paid over the years?
Becky says
Hi Sara
The balance is £0 now and has been for approx 18 months and the interest amounts to approx £2500;the card has been open since 2014
Many thanks for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, well you should have several years of 8% interest added – it’s complicated to work out how much – a lot depends if you stopped spending on the card and started paying it off slowly , or if you were spending until it was cleared with a lump sum. If it isn’t at least 3 years (£750), I should ask them to explain how they have calculated it.
Andrew says
Has anyone git any feedback about new day (aqua or marbles) how they perform once a final ombudsman decision has been made ?
Whether they took the whole 28 days and whether they applied their own interpretation of the redress?
Mike_p says
I’ve just had a good outcome on my complaint against Aqua. They rejected the complaint.initially and I had to send it to the FOS which didn’t surprise me at all. The investigator found in my favour saying the credit limit increase should never have been given, and toy amazement Aqua responded th same day accepting the decision!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I check that the FOS decision is to refund AXlL interest from that date, not just the interest on the increased limit?
Mike_p says
Yes, it’s to refund all the interest:
1. You should refund all the interest and charges Mr x has paid to date from when his credit card limit was increased to £1600.
2. If the borrowing is still in place, you should reduce the outstanding capital balance by the amount calculated at Step 1.
3. If, after Step 2, there remains an outstanding capital balance, you should ensure that it isn’t subject to any historic or future interest and/or charges. But if Step 2 leads to a positive balance, the amount in question should be given back to Mr x and 8% simple interest should be added to the surplus.
4. You should remove any adverse information recorded on Mr x’s credit file as a result of the interest and charges.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
excellent. nice and clear.
Craig says
well done – mine was the same! received final decision from FOS on 3rd Jan so waiting on Aqua/Newday getting back to me on any refund, removing default from credit file etc. not holding my breath for a quick response though but have been told to contact FOS if not heard from them in 4 weeks.
Mike_p says
Well I’ve had a refund, but it is only about 55% of what I was expecting. It looks like they might have only repaid interest on the increased balance rather than the whole balance, despite the adjudicator decision being quite clear. I’ve asked the adjudicator to follow up with them on it and sent copies of my statements. Pre August 2021 statements aren’t showing in my app for some reason, but I pre-emptively obtained them via a FOS request so I could check the amount of any refund.
Andrew says
In ecsctly same position Ombudman was clear in my view All interest but only sent me a breakdown for half my adjudicator is trying to speak with them at moment but if no go then it goes back to the ombudsman who made decision to see if it is compliant
Craig says
hi mike can i ask how long it took from your FOS decision to refund being issued? i am on week 5 now,
Mike_p says
It was just over 3 weeks – they replied to the adjudicator on the same day they issued their decision saying the credit limit increase shouldn’t have been given, but now they’ve refunded it they haven’t paid me enough.
Craig says
thanks mike – i will follow up with FOS see if they have heard anything back yet. my debt was sold to a debt collector so newday/aqua have been told to buy it back could be why its taking longer we shall see….
JL says
I have got quite a large overdraft that I have basically lived in for years. Money going in never gets me out of it !
I am in the process of opening a new account with a different lender, so that hopefully can start treating this overdraft like a debt and start paying off. I just have a couple of questions.
Firstly – My mortgage is with the same bank, is there likely to be any action that they could take against this
Also I am considering making a complaint over the overdraft, will that have any comeback against the mortgage also
TIA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
getting a new account is often a very good idea. Starling & Monzo accounts have lots of neat tools to help you budget…
My mortgage is with the same bank, is there likely to be any action that they could take against this
Normally not if you keep making a payment each month to the old account that is larger than the fees being added. Setting up a standing order is good.
I am guessing here, but I suppose you may have been told when you took the mortgage that it was a condition of the mortgage that you banked with them? That feels like a typical condition in the 1970s and 80s – my guess is it would be very rare now.
Also I am considering making a complaint over the overdraft, will that have any comeback against the mortgage also
No. That would be unfair way to treat a customer and I haven’t heard of anything like this happening. You could expect that the bank would not want to give you a new credit card say, but it can’t affect an existing mortgage. And they couldn’t refuse to give you a new fix when the current one ends.
If you have been consistently in the overdraft all month, not getting back into the black when you are paid for a long period, then this may be a very strong compalint. Stress this point in your conmplaint. Say the bank should have reviewed your overdraft and seen you were in difficulty and offered help, eg by reducing or stopping the overdraft charges. Also say a bit about the rest of your finances – was your credit card borrowing going up? did you miss payments to bills? etc
Send this complaint to the ombudsman if the bank rejects it.
JL says
Thank for the reply,
I am embarrassed about the fact that I have not been out of his overdraft for about 15 years
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok straight to the Ombudsman if they reject the complaint!
JL says
Am I best to switch account before I put in the complaint ?
Or will they need to give me so many days notice before recalling the overdraft.
Also can I do the switch service when switching to a basic bank account, or will they use any money in there against the overdraft if you get what I mean – am i better doing a manual switch
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Banks don’t normally recall an overdraft as soon as someone complains.
The switching service is explained here https://www.currentaccountswitch.co.uk/help-support/. It closes your old account. If you are in your overdraft when the switch should happen, this can only happen if the new account agrees to take the overdraft…
So it’s probably best to manually switch things over if you want a new account and to leave the overdraft behind. Then set up a standing order for payemnst to the old account that are at least as large as the overdraft fees being added each month.
Lee says
Hi all, just so you are aware it has taken about 6 months from submitting my overdraft complaint to the FOS for the Adjudictor to get back to me about my overdraft bank complaint with Nationwide.
They have partly agreed with me. Awaiting Nationwide response to their findings, they have till 25th January to respond. This was the first case I submitted to the FOS. Still have others either upheld in full and settled, with the Ombudsman or waiting to be picked up by the Adjudictor still. Doesn’t seem to be any order to it all. But might give those awaiting overdraft complaint outcomes an indication of current wait times to expect in these cases which seem to have the longest wait times.
Submitted 14th July 21 to them.
Jason says
Hey lee, just wondering if you wouldn’t mind giving some info on your nationwide complaint? I’m currently contemplating putting one forward myself
jimbob says
Hi Sarah Within 10 days just had a letter from Capital One rejecting affordability complaint. Am i right in assuming i can now send this to the FOS for consideration.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, you can send this now as the lender has replied to your complaint.
jimbob says
Thanks Sara will do. Apparently they are experts and never lend irresponsibly.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
haha that’s a good one. Here is a FOS decision against them, picked at random: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/312724/DRN-2946140.pdf
emily56 says
I had recently complained to Llyods bank about my overdraft, I have had an overdraft of £550 since December 2019, I have never been able to get out of this and have taken out many loans whilst in this. Fees of the overdraft were £0.60 per day. They have declined the complaint. Should I accept this or take this further?
I had also complained to Fernovo who I had taken out a £200 loan with and paid back £315.80. I had taken out 3 loans in the 2 months before this totaling £800. Fernovo have offered me a £20 refund and to clear off my credit file. Should I accept this?
Loans to go have offered me a 100% reduction so I only have the capital to pay which is £26, I am happy with this refund but they have stated that they cannot remove the negative marks from my credit file, is this correct or should I ask further for this?
I had also complained to vanqius for approving me for a credit card whilst taking out many payday loans and being in constant overdraft with llyods, they have declined my complaint, should I pursue this further?
thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have never been able to get out of this
Do you mean that you were never in the black even when you got paid?
I had also complained to Fernovo who I had taken out a £200 loan with and paid back £315.80. I had taken out 3 loans in the 2 months before this totaling £800. Fernovo have offered me a £20 refund and to clear off my credit file. Should I accept this?
Were the 3 previous loans with Fernovo or another lender?
Loans to go have offered me a 100% reduction so I only have the capital to pay which is £26, I am happy with this refund but they have stated that they cannot remove the negative marks from my credit file, is this correct or should I ask further for this?
That is wrong. Ask them to remove the negative marks or say you will send the case to the Ombudsman.
I had also complained to vanqius for approving me for a credit card whilst taking out many payday loans and being in constant overdraft with Lloyds, they have declined my complaint, should I pursue this further?
How large was the credit limit? Did they increase this?
Emily 56 says
The previous loans were with other lenders when fernovo had approved me.
My limit on vanquis is £250, they have not increased this but when this was issued I had marks on my credit file and was taking out many loans at the time
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if that was your first loan from Fernovo, you are very unlikely to win this case at the Ombudsman. You may decide to accept their offer. If you do, you need to download and keep for a long time your ceredit record now, wheile it still has the Fernovo loan on it. It helps with any other complaints that may have to go to the Ombudsman to have a full credit record.
You are also pretty unlikely to win a complaint against Vanquis at the Ombudsman for such a low credit limit.
It sounds as though you havea lot of smallish debts. It can be hard to get good refunds fro these. I suggest you should talk now to StepoChange about a debt management plan for all of your debts, including your overdraft. This will get you into a safe place where you just have to make one affordable payment a month and don’t have to keep borrowing to repay other debts.
You can still carry on with your overdraft complaint. And getting the L2G debt down a lot means the DMP will and much sooner.
AL says
Hi Sara,
I’ve had a response from an adjudicator who has picked up my barclays overdraft case. I found it a bit strange as she first contacted me after she had completed her investigation when previous ones introduced themselves first. She said she could only ho back 6 years as I should have known at the time that the overdraft was unaffordable (2012 and 2013). I followed your advice and said I only found out recently as I came across this site and therefore was complaining within 3 years. She said barclays have offered a good will gesture of £2400 as they will only look between 2015 and 2018 as I took out a large barclayloan in 2018 so they didn’t see any financial difficulties after they point. (Still living in overdraft though, from 2012 to present day although I have reduced it to £600 overdrawn down from £1600 overdrawn). One other thing I found strange was she said that having reviewed my account and seeing that a healthy salary was paid in regular which cleared my overdraft she feels that what barclays are saying is fair. But my wages never cleared my overdraft? It’s only in the last couple of years that it’s reduced it each week on the Friday to £400 overdrawn but it’s back up to £600 overdrawn within a couple of days after food shopping, bills etc.
I’m worried if I don’t accept Barclays good will gesture then I’ll be left with nothing.
Should just add to the above that I also put £250 in a savings account each week which covers main bills such as mortgage, council tax and barclayloan. She said a large part of my salary was going into another account each week but again that’s for bills. It couldn’t cover my overdraft as its used for bills.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This all sounds very odd. An adjudicator has to pass on an offer from a lender, but this one sounds very poor – how can they agree they should not have charged you for an overdraft from 2015 to 2018 but then say it’s fine to charge you after 2018 because they gave you a large loan?
I think it is incredibly unlikely that you would lose this Barclays offer by refusing it.
Also Barclays seem to accept most adjudicator decisions, perhaps they don’t want to have lost overdraft affordability cases at the ombudsman level published… So it’s worth pushing back and asking the adjudicator to change their mind.
So three questions:
1) This other “savings account” was that with Barclays? Is it same as the “bills account” you refer to or do you have 2 accounts?
2) you say you have been living in your overdraft since 2012. Do you mean during this time you were in your overdraft the whole time, not getting back into the black even when you were paid?
3) would you be happy if you had a full refund from 2014? there may be a very good case for going back to 2012, but it’s a question of whether you would be happy with the compromise of all from 2014 or you want to push for the lot.
AL says
Hi Sara,
Yes this other account was also with barclays and its the account which I put money in each week as mortgage and council tax come out of it and then what’s left each month goes back into my main account as my barclayloan comes out of my main account.
Yes I’ve pretty much been in my overdraft the whole time since 2012. The odd times I’ve not been are when I get paid my holiday pay at Xmas which goes in as a lump sum so clears my overdraft for about a week then I’m back to being overdrawn.
I think I woukd be happy with all from 2014 to present day but they are only saying they will refund from September 2015 to November 2018.
The other point they made was that I had a large payment go into to my other account in 2016 which could have been used to clear my overdraft. This was borrowed from a family member to clear other debt and when my boiler was going to need to be replaced. Do they have a point that this should have been used for overdraft? I don’t feel they can use the barclayloan point in 2018 as they were just giving me more money even though I was only ever living in overdraft.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest it is worth making all the following points to your adjudicator (and any other ones you think of!)
– you don’t think Barclays offer is satisfactory – it makes no sense for them to say they will refund from 2015-2018 and not afterwards when your cashflow got worse because of the loan.
– the £250 was going into another account with Barclays which was an account for bills, (mortgage, council tax, loan) and not a savings account – Barclays could see there were no savings building up in this account.
– the large payment into the other account was a loan from a family member that was used to clear other debt and to replace your boiler which was essential. Even after clearing some other debt your financial situation did not improve and you were still in your overdraft continuously.
– you have been continuously in your overdraft all through the month since 2012, never going back into the black except for about a week at Xmas when some holiday pay takes you back into the black for about a week. Say you understand this is called “hardcore borrowing” and banks recognise this as a sign of financial problems.
– say you believe Barclays should have reviewed your overdraft usage annually. If they did this they should have seen these warning signs and stopped adding the charges that were making it harder for you to get out of your overdraft.
– say you have been unaware until recently that a bank should have reviewed overdraft usage. So although you knew in from 2012 that you were in financial difficulty as your debts were increasing, you thought that was your fault for being bad with money and did not realise that Barclays had done anything wrong, so you did not know you had a reason to make a complaint. So you think this falls within the “three years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that he had cause for complaint”.
– say that as a compromise for a speedy resolution you would be prepared to accept a refund of all charges from the start of 2014, but if Barclays will not agree to that you would like the case to go to the Ombudsman.
– also make a point about your other non Barclays debts which Barclays should have noticed on your credit record.
AL says
Sorry I should also add that I did have a savings account too. The account where my mortgage came out of was a joint account with my partner bit they never put in anything as was not working due to having children. The sum they mentioned which I borrowed from family was in savings account but you can see how that went down with transfers to main account to overdraft (only ever making a small debt before ot went back to max) and then to joint account where it was withdrawn for other bills/debt with some saved for boiler renewal. The last chunk of that in savings actually paid a lump from barclaycard. So I did have a sole account, joint account and savings account all with barclays. I perhaps could have used it to pay off overdraft bit was always using it for other debt and unexpected living expenses
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, then make all this clear. Also point out that Barclays knew you has a Barclaycard, all these accounts and a loan so they knew a lot about your personal finances and together it should have been obvious you were juggling money constantly and in trouble. If you had cleared the overdraft you would owe more on the Barclaycard, that would have meant you went back into your overdraft again.
AL says
I still think that regardless of my later finances the point is that the earlier overdraft increases shouldn’t have been given and should be refunded to present day. Am I wrong in thinking that?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You haven’t mentioned that they increased your overdraft limit… what were the dates and amounts of the overdraft limit increases?
AL says
It went from £500 to £1200 in 2012 and then up again to £1600 in 2013
Having gone back to even earlier bank statements I can see that I was actually living in overdraft from 2009
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case I think you have got a very good case to say that Barclays should never have given you the increases in 2012 and 2013 as at that point you had already been living in your overdraft the whole time since 2009.
Say this was not treating you fairly (use those exact words) and instead of increasing your limit in 2012, Barclays should instead have offered you help by stopping the overdraft charges. Point out that at that point if Barclays had helped you, with a lower limit and no charges you would have had a good chance of being able to resolve your financial problems and return your account to good standing, but at the time you felt under so much financial pressure because of the charges that you accepted the overdraft increase. (If you had other problem financial accounts away from Barclays at this time, it is good to mention them here as well.)
AL says
Hello Sara,
An update in regards to my barclays overdraft complaint. Adjudicator has come back again and is still insisting that she can’t go back any further then the 6 year time frame. She is also stating that she feels that the offer barclays have given me is fair amd that I should accept this. This offer is only for 2015 to 2018 (3 years) as barclays wouldn’t go beyond 2018 as I took out a further loan with them so they couldn’t see any financial difficulties. My question is they have offered me a goodwill gesture of £2400. However if I look at my annual statements for each if these years then I have paid over £3000 interest and charges. Wouldn’t this be what they should refund me plus the interest? It just seems barclays have picked a random figure and the adjudicator thinks this is fair. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask for the case to go to an Ombudsman then.
Andrew says
Has anyone any feedback on how long once a final ombudsman decision is made that new day (marbles and aqua) come back with information also whether they played ball with the decision in terms of figures etc
David says
I would like to complain to Aqua but on their website I can only see phone number of postal address. Ideally I would like to do it by email. Does anyone know if there’s a complaints email available?
Mike_p says
I don’t think there is, my final response came by post and just listed a postal address and phone number to use if I had more queries. It’s the usual taxtic of making complaining/cancelling difficult while applying can be done online.
David says
Did you raise a complain by phone or by send post letter?
Mike_p says
I did it by post as I wanted to have a record of what I sent, and make sure I covered all the points I wanted to.
Graeme says
Hi David
Try complaints@newday.co.uk if this is a first time contact.
David says
Thanks, I can see Aqua is one of the products/brands of New Day Ltd. Despite having separate website.
Lee says
David. New Day deals with Aqua and Marbles complaints. Got mine currently with the Ombudsman. Only complained about Aqua new Day also reviewed Marbles card in my complaint. Already had around £3000 redress. But believe I’m due a lot more from Aqua hence why I’m in an ombudsman queue since early December.
Scott says
Hi I put in an irresponsible lending complaint to the Financial Ombudsman regarding HSBC for a loan, credit card and overdraft. This complaint was made in 2020. The Adjudicator picked this up in August 2021 and upheld my complaint by October 2021. HSBC have been a nightmare. Everytime the Adjudicator has asked them for information and given them a deadline they have asked for more time. The last time they were given 2 weeks to respond and they took 6 weeks.
HSBC have not agreed with the findings and its now getting sent to the Ombudsman. This has caused me a lot of stress and anxiety as the loan and credit card has been sold to a debt collection agency and no one seems to know who I can contact to set up a payment plan so now I am having to wait on Ombudsman decision.
Is there anyway I can add to the complaint to request compensation for all the stress caused by HSBC. When the Adjudicator upheld my complaint he requested that all interest be refunded and negative marks on my credit file be removed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but a firm is entitled to reject an adjudicator decision. On the bright side at least there is no danger of HSBC going bust!
Scott says
Hi I don’t understand your reply. Is there a good chance the Ombudsman will agree with the adjudicator and also can I add to my complaint in relation to all the stress caused by HSBC
Sara (Debt Camel) says
in 90% of cases the Ombudsman agrees with the adjudicator.
you could ask for compensation for the delays but I think it’s unlikely you will get it.
Louise says
I need help, so I submitted my complaint about vanquis the original complaint was inrregards to irresponsible lending and the fact they probably didn’t do the relevant checks in the first place…. however I understand this car was taken out over 10 years ago now… I have heard back from the ombudsmen my original balance was £250 when I first took it out and maxed it all the time spending what little I had and only paying the minimum payment as that is all I could afford…. I spiralled into a payday loan trap etc then after 7 years they upped my balance to £1000 no credit checks etc just did it then again to £1850. The ombudsmen has honoured my complaint in the sense that from 2017 they should not have upped my limit…. however I have just gone back and said should they not have been monitoring my account over the 7 years prior to the increase, they could see I was only making the minimum payments and using every little I did have on the limit but we’re happy with me carrying on with the facity?
The ombudsmen has said that he can sense that I’m not happy with the outcome, do you think I’m being petty I have has £300 roughly from 2017 to now refunded back to the balance but I’m pretty sure over the 7 years of paying interest on a minimum payment every month is a whole lot more when they should have been responsible.
He wants to know what needs to be done to make things right any advice would be great TIA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is the £300 refund all the charges from 2017 to the current date? Or all the charges over the original £250 limit?
Louise says
All charges that were over the £250 limit, the increases were made from 2017, however 2 on thous years I was in a freeze as I couldn’t pay and for about a year I have been in a dmp…. hence why the amount us so low.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so one simple thing to say is that in 2017 they should have seen that for the previous 7 years your account had been almost always maxed out (is that right?) and you had only paid the minimum. They should not only not have increased your limit but at that point they should have seen you were in difficulty and frozen interest on the account – so you should get back all the charges from that point on, not just those over the previous limit as the previous limit was unaffordable.
But I think you should say in addition that you think it was not treating you fairly (use that phrase) to let your account run like that for 7 years. You unerstand credit cards are meant to be flexible products, but you feel that after five years it should have been very clear that you were in difficulty. So you think the refund should be from earlier, eg 2015.
Louise says
Thank you Sara 😊
Louise says
Looking at all the information I’ve received, your initial compliant to Vanquis was about irresponsible lending. I’ve looked at the history of the account, and can see that when you told Vanquis you were in financial difficulty they entered into payment arrangements with you for a time.
I haven’t looked into whether or not Vanquis should have picked up on the way your account was running between it opening and the limit increase in 2017.
There was no obligation on lenders as far as I know, to monitor how an account is running and to offer help or guidance to customers who only make the minimum the payments for a significant period of time.
The current rules were only put in place by the Financial Conduct Authority in March 2018, and businesses had to start monitoring accounts in persistent debt from that point in time.
We would still expect businesses to treat customers who report financial difficulty to them positively and sympathetically. So if you have any concerns that Vanquis didn’t give you breathing space when you told them you couldn’t afford repayments, or could have done more to help you at the time, you would need to raise this as a separate complaint for them to respond to.
I can’t look into this until they’ve had a chance to address your concerns first.
I hope this answers your query, please let me know if you have any questions.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK. So you need to make a separate complaint about pre 2017.
BUT you should still ask for the adjudicator’s decision to be changed so that Vanquis refund ALL interest after the 2017 date as then they looked at your account and should have seen you were in trouble.
this may make a significant difference to the refund you get.
Laura says
Hi Mel did they agree with the adjudicator eventually and how long did it take? They have upheld my complaint too but I’m wondering if they will put up a long fight! Thanks
Mel says
Hello Sara, I have just heard that the adjudicator has ruled in my favour regarding my HSBC overdraft – how well do HSBC usually respond to the Adjudicator decisions?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
delay is the most common response! So far as I know they accept some and reject others.
Mel says
Yeh – they took an age to send information to FOS. Will wait and see how this plays out ! FOS have separated out my overdraft complaint from the loan and Credit Card
Scott says
Hey, they did same with my loan, credit card and overdraft. Kept asking for extensions so instead of replying within 2 weeks they would take 6. FOS upheld my complaint in October but HSBC kept providing more info. HSBC have now not accepted adjudicator decision so today it has eventually went to the Ombudsman so more waiting time. HSBC are the worst company to deal with. I didn’t have this issue with any of my other complaints. I hope you have a better experience.
Mel says
Oh well, I will sit tight for the long game then !!
Chris says
Hi Sarah
Im just finishing my complaint to Barclays about my overdraft, complaint goes back to September 2012 when they increased my overdraft from 1520 to 2270 (and then later in 2013 from 2270 to £3020). Now I can see from my bank statements that I was living of my overdraft since December 2009 (even before but I don’t have bank statements) i’m not sure how I should end my complaint. at the moment I’m asking to refund me all the interest I paid and any charges after Barclays increased my overdraft limit in September 2012. is there a way i can go back to 2009 ? not sure when before 2012 there was increase and they didn’t mention in final response letter, they just stated that all charges and fees to current account are ok basically.
thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can see from my bank statements that I was living of my overdraft since December 2009
do you mean that since then you use the overdraft every month for a few days? or most days or all days, not even getting back into the black when you were paid?
Chris says
Hi Sara
So I have been receiving my salary to this account, I was going back in the black for few days to couple of weeks and then back in to overdraft until next pay day. Complaint goes back to September 2012 when they increased my overdraft from 1520 to 2270 (and then later in 2013 from 2270 to £3020). Now I can see from my bank statements that I was living of my overdraft since December 2009 (1st back statement I can access online) I have been banking with Barclays since 2005 and I’m not sure what increases of overdraft I had between 2005 and 2009.
so at the moment I’m asking Barclays to refund me all the interest I paid and any charges after Barclays increased my overdraft limit in September 2012. My question is Can I try and push it to 2010 ? without increases in that year ?
or shall I just end like this
I would like Barclays to refund me all the interest I paid and any charges and fees after Barclays increased my overdraft limit in September 2012 to date. Also and fees and charges from January 2010 as I was already in financial difficulty living of overdraft prior to 2010
I understand 8% simple interest is usually added to this sort of refund
??
not sure how to end this, please advise.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is quite a lot of difference between going into the black for a few days when you are paid and for a couple of weeks.
Do you know if you even went over your overdraft limit and so were charged unauthorised charges? Or did you have direct debts and standing order unpaid because they would have taken you over your limit?
chris says
Hi Sara
I had been charged several times for going over my overdraft.
my limit before 2012 was 1520, I ended month let’s say at -1450, got paid £1700 went above my overdraft for few days, paid bills & pay day loans and I was back in overdraft, then taking out payday loans to top up my salary and then it was just a debt circle.
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so I can’t really say how strong your case is for going back before 2012, it depends a lot on how many days of the month you were in your overdraft and how often you went over it.
Asking for a refund from 2012 seems simpler, but I usually say you are the one who knows how much difficulty the ovedraft caused you before that date. It is the Ombudsman’s job to make these decisions, so if you feel it was unaffordable then ask for a refund for earlier years as well.
chris says
Hi Sara
I think I will have strong case but not sure how long i can go back.
I just dig out old statements, don’t have all all of them, the oldest I found is from November 2006 where i can see i had £1520 overdraft already. managed ok at that time. Not sure when they gave me £1520 overdraft mus be pre November 2006. next statement i have is dated Dec 2008 and I can see I was 320£ over my overdraft and this continued until January 2011 (in all that time I only managed to get out back in my overdraft like 4 times and then going back over my overdraft. in 2011 i discovered pay day loans, that helped me keep balance within overdraft but usually always maxed. then in September 2012 they increased my overdraft to £2270 event when I can see I went over my overdraft month before in August 2012. and used lots of wonga.com at the time. also in addition to this my Barclaycard (£1480) was over the limit between 1st quarter of 2010 to Aptil 2012 (maybe longer but i’m not sure as I don’t have more statements) and my credit limit was suspended. but this is for separate complaint for Barclaycard anyway surly Barclays would see that) and then final increase to £3020 was in Feb 2013. I get paid about 2,4k a month so I have been in Overdraft ever since.
what do you think honestly ?
thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“next statement i have is dated Dec 2008 and I can see I was 320£ over my overdraft and this continued until January 2011 (in all that time I only managed to get out back in my overdraft like 4 times and then going back over my overdraft.”
I’m not sure about some of the phrases you have used.
When you wrote “I was 320£ over my overdraft and this continued until January 2011” do you mean
– that you went £320 over the overdraft limit? or that you were using £320 of your overdraft?
– when you say this continued, are you referrring to this being the worst point in a month? Or are you saying that was the typical (average) mount every day in the month? or that this was the minimum – the best point in the month?
To be clear, you definitely have a good case, but how far back is the question, and what you should say about it.
chris says
Hi Sara
sorry I had a look again, so I opened account in April 2005. not sure when they gave me overdraft, I can see on statement from November 2006 it was already there £1520. I can see from November 2006 that i managed my account ok. next statement I have is December 2008 I had look again at basically from Dec 2008 I was using all of my overdraft 1520 plus 250 reserve. this carried on till April 2009 when I had my reserve removed and Barclays temporary for a month increased my overdraft to 1900 as i was going over my 1520 limit, in May they temporary increased to 1700 as I was still over my limit 1520. and from June 2009 my overdraft stays 1520 but i go over it many times, in fact since December 2009 to March 2011 I was going over my limit so many times that out of 27 months i only managed to stay above my limit usually by 1 pound to 50 pounds (so if my limit was 1520 i was closing month with 1519 or 1492 so I was maxing it out. then in 2011 i discovered wonga to make up my bank account balance. in September 2012 Barclays increased my limit to 2270 but 3 months prior to increase i was over my overdraft limit twice. plus i been using payday loans. …
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“this carried on till April 2009 when I had my reserve removed”
Then this is the pont that I think you should ask for a refund from, Barclays should have seen at that point that you were in difficulty and helped eg by freezing charges, not bu increasing your limit.
Adele says
Hi Sara,
Hopefully you can advise.
I am on benefits and do not work. I have an awful credit history due to a previous gambling problem.
I had a standard/basic bank account with NatWest. No overdraft or loans or anything.
Anyway I was gambling online and the bank let me go almost £4000 overdrawn. Any other time I can’t even go over a penny. My account was closed straight away by them and I am now paying it back but they’ve stopped the interest and charges.
I raised a complaint as I feel I shouldn’t of even been let to go overdrawn and think they hold some responsibility. They wouldn’t uphold the complaint so I have taken it to the ombudsman.
What do you think my chances are of them wiping this and me not having to pay?
I understand that it is my doing but these transactions should’ve been declined.
Thanks Adele x
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t seen one of these complaints go through. As you say it feels wrong that most payments would be rejected if they took you into a non-existant overdraft but there was nothing here to protect you. Let me know how this one goes?
Adele says
Yes, I will let you know the outcome Sara!
Elle says
Hi again Sara,
I guess the answer to this query may even help a few other people as it wasn’t something I’d really thought about before.
I’ve received several pay outs from various lenders over the last 2 years (not ppi related as that was longer ago) but for catalogues and my bank for irresponsible/unaffordable lending complaints, and a packaged bank account complaint… only I’ve just noticed an on one catalogue refund letter (on an additional sheet) that if someone is a non-taxpayer then they may be able to claim the tax back on the 8% interest part of the refunds via HMRC.
I’m self employed and partly down to Covid I’ve not had any tax to pay for the last two years as I simply didn’t earn enough,.. Am I then classed as a ‘non-tax payer’ for those two years and can I claim the tax back and if so how and when do I go about this please? Is there a time limit?.. Should it be in the same tax year as the refund?
I know there is a tricky form to fill in if ’employed paye’ but being self employed, can I simply get my accountant to do this/fill something else in for me on my next tax return?
Thanks again for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If your accountant has said you do not need to submit a self assessment form for the tax year you received a refund in, then use the R40 form to claim back tax paid. It isn’t that tricky! see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ppi-payday-refund-get-back-tax/
Josh says
Hi sara
Could I be able to complaint against a Pawn broker for Affordability or Irrespinsible lending. I had more than 15 pawn loans against Jewllery with Pickwick pawn brokers between 2014 to 15. Several times I have extended my loan 30 days more and buy back. Its more like a rolling my debt liability both payday loans and other lenders. I managed to buy back all my jewllery paying high intrst each time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry but the affordability rules don’t apply to pawnbroking.
Mel says
Hello Sara, what is your view on banks treatment of customers who have been in persistent credit card debt for years ? I am in that position with Halifax and I am wondering if I have grounds to complain on the basis of unfair and irresponsible treatment of customers due to the fact that they have maintained charging me even though the signs were there that I was in financial distress ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What has happened with your account… did they increase your credit limit when you were only making minimum payments?
When did they send you the first “persistent debt” letter? At that point, apart from only making minimum payments, was thre anything else that should have suggested you were in financial trouble?
Mel says
Hi Sara, I am just working through all of this now. Basically, I have had a credit card with them for about 10 years, and yes I hit a really bad time in 2016/17 when I had to arrange a repayment plan with them but only to get me back on an even keel. But then they started adding 30% again and for the last 5/6 years I have been paying just over minimum payment and of a £5500 limit I still owe £2645 because they have never considered a reduction in interest rate to help me pay the card off, so I guess I am just a good profitable customer !!! My awful credit score meant that I couldnt get another card interest free to offset it.
It just feels wrong!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you say what happened before 2016? Were you only paying the minimum then? Did they increase your credit limit?
After they went back to charging you – did you ever ask if it could be reduced?
And when was the first “persistent debt” letter?
Mel says
Yeh, I was at the top of my limit and paying minimum amount. They never increased my limit, I reduced it from £6k to £5.5k and then I asked them to close the account whilst I repay. But the interest rate remained at 29.45% which means still after 6 years I’m still paying it off. I know that’s the terms but all this time I have had no offer for support or to discuss options to repay this card sooner
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK. So I think this is worth a complaint because I see completely why you are feeling that they have not considered your interest at all, just what makes most money for them.
This isn’t a standard affordability complaint. Don’t use the template in the article above, well you can use the bit at the start but the rest you need to explain what has happned.
So you are saying that Halifax knew you were in difficulty in 2015/16 and helped then but then they started adding interest again. And as a result you can only pay a bit more than the minimum and the debt cannot be cleared in a reasonable time.
Point out that by 2018, 2 years after they had started adding interest, it should have been clear that you were in difficulty still and halifas have not treated you fairly (use that phrase) by continuing to charge interest.
If the rest of your finances have got worse since then, say that.
What would you like to happen as a result? Having all interest refunded back to when2016 would be great…
But if you would be prepared to settle as a compromise for less, I suggest you say that eg “I think fair redress would be for yiou to refund the interest i have paid since 2016 and that is what I will be asking for if my ciomplaint has to go to the ombudsman. But in the interest of a speedy resolution, I would be happy to accept an offer of a refund of the interest from 2018.”
or if you would be happy if you are allowed to pay off the remaining debt with no interest being added but with no harm to your credit record, say that.
I honestly don’t know what the Ombudsman would do with this complaint because I haven’t seen a similar one. But I do think there is a case that Halifax has not treated you fairly. And “treating customers fairly” is as the heart of the regulator’s rules.
Mel says
Hi Sara, I have just come off a call to them to log my complaint again (as they have no record of my first complaint) and I think exactly the same as what you have stated and that’s how I explained the basis of my complaint. There were clear signs my credit card was not being used as intended as I was over my limit and repaying the minimum amount back – that went on for years. Then in early 2017 I was in serious financial difficulty and I contacted them to close my account and asked for a repayment plan which was flagged on my credit file. That came to an end Nov 17 and then I fell straight back into arrears again and interest started to be reapplied at 29.4% from Feb 18 I have been repaying pretty much the minimum amount on a couple of occasions I may have been able to pay maybe £30 or £40 more but nothing to dent the amount I owe. And here in Jan 22 I still have a balance of £2470 and I have paid nearly £11k in repayments.
I have just received a adjudicator decision in my favour against HSBC for not acting when there were clear signs my account was in distress and that they have not acted fairly towards me. I feel that is the same principle here as my account was visibly in distress and I was in persistent debt from 2014 and no action by Halifax was taken to help, even after I fell into arrears – nor was I aware of my options at the time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was the HSBC decison an overdraft or card? I am interested in all bank adjudicator decisions at the moment.
Mel says
That was regarding my overdraft.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
thanks.
There is a stronger argument that a bank should review your situation for overdrafts, which are typically reviewed each your, than for credit cards. But your argument is that Halifax were on notice that the card had caused you problems so they should have kept an eye on it.
Max says
Hi Andrew,
I’m slap bang in the middle of this with Newday as won my FOS case (via Ombudsman) in December and FOS admin sent Newday my bank details just before Xmas and I was told payment would be made in January.
I’ve had no contact from them since then, but having (finally) been able to get into my Aqua online account this weekend (after a call to customer services), I can see more than £9,000 was credited to the former just before Xmas, taking me well into credit.
I can’t access my Marbles online account manager for some reason, but customer services said around £4,000 had been refunded around the same time.
I’ve yet to have any breakdown as to how those figures were arrived at, or what tax (if any) has been deducted and at what rate. Customer services said someone would be in touch this week (I’ll update then).
I did a SAR request late last year and so have all my statements and may well pay an accountant to double check the figures in due course so I’m not ripped off.
My Aqua account is showing refunds with headings like “Cheque Reversal” and “Overlimit Fees”. Refunds to both cards look 5-10% less than I expected, so this may still have legs.
Andrew says
Hi Max
Thanks for this do you have contact for new day to get this I don’t think I can access my portal anymore as account closed
Elle says
Hi Sara,
I’m following on from my post on 5/1/2022, I’ve heard back from the adjudicator again who’s still declined to comment on my concerns but has passed on Freemans calculations and list of all my payments I ever made for all 4 Freeman’s owned catalogues.
What you said in another person’s query on here now makes total sense to me. Can I use this argument below now even though I had originally agreed with what the adjudicator had suggested Freemans do? At this point I’ve not accepted Freemans offer and the adjudicator is still awaiting my latest reply.
You’ said:
“If the complaint is upheld from the point your credit limit was raised (in my case 3/12/2013), you want a refund of ALL the payments you made from that point. Not a refund of all the payments you paid less what the interest would have been on the previous credit limit… This is because when (whoever) looked at your situation, they should have realised you were already in difficulty… they certainly should not have made this worse by increasing your limit, but they should have not allowed you to carry on using the account and should have frozen interest so the balance could be repaid.”
From the calculation sheets I now have, I can clearly see now that whilst the adjudicator has set the date 3/12/2013 he’s allowed them to charge interest up to £1050 limit (on one account for example) yet my actual balance on 3/12/2013 was only £650, so that credit limit was not reached by me until the end of 2016… and hence the low redress amounts offered now.
He’s already said that they should have known at that 3/12/13 point that the debts were all unsustainable so my new query is.. can I ask the adjudicator to look at how he’s dealt with this again? Surely he must realise this is a rather unfair way of resolving these complaints, (as I said have 4 accounts with Freemans)…along with a low wage a the time and other high debt which he has mentioned and Freemans are aware of.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes – go back and say you did not understand what the decision said and feel that Freemenas should at that point have realised that it was not just that increasing the limit was unfair, but that you were already in financial difficulty so at this point they should have treated you fairly (use that phrase) by offering to freeze interest.
Ask the adjudicator to reconsider and say you would like the decision to go to an Ombudsman if they won’t.
Elle says
Hi Sara, I did as we’d discussed and I’ve now had a reply from my adjudicator, but he wouldn’t change his view. :(
“Your complaint about Freemans Plc trading as Freemans.com.
I sent you my view of this complaint on 28 October 2021.
You initially accepted my view but you were unhappy with the amount of redress offered by Freemans.
I have considered the points you raised in your email of 30 January 2022 and I will not be changing my recommendations to Freemans in this case.
Because you didn’t agree with my recommendations, an ombudsman will review the complaint and make a decision.”
Is there anything else I should/could add to my complaint going to the Ombudsman?
Thank again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh so the two points you need to have made in writing are
1) that Freemenas should at 3/12/13 have realised that it was not just unfair to increrase your limit but that you were in difficulty so they should have treated you fairly by offering to freeze interest.
2) that you only originally accepted the adjuicator’s offer as you thought that was what would have been done because it was what happened with 2 other catalogue refunds, so it wasn’t until freemans sent you the details of the calculations that you realised that had done something different.
If you have already made both points (and it sounds as though you may have) then you don’t need to do any more.
Elle says
Thanks Sara,
You’re right, I made all of the points you’ve made above in writing in a final attempt to get the adjudicator to look at it all again…as it was his wording that allowed Freemans to only refund from various credit limits once each was reached, (several years later) even though he has stated that they, Freemans’ acted irresponsibly (and they agree) from 02/12/2013.
I’ve simply asked that the Ombudsmen opts to get in touch with me if anything else is required, but feel that they should have everything they need to make their descision.
Fingers crossed now. ..and thanks again Sara for all your help.
David says
Hi Sarah,
I have a question. I sent a complaint about active credit card and I’m asking to refund all the interest so far and to stop the current interest. Let’s say the decision comes in 3 months from FOS. Until then I continue to make small payments as usual. Would they refund me all the interest up to the date when the FOS decision takes place or only to the date I raised the complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
All until the date they calculate the repayment.
David says
Thank you, that’s what I hope for.
Lynn says
Hi Sara,
I got very good news on Friday and the ombudsman agreed with her provisional decision and all increases from December 2015 till March 2017 between 1800 and 4750 have been deemed as unaffordable. Newday had till the 14th of January to respond with any additional information for the ombudsman they took till the 14th and said I had claimed out with the time limit and that I was good at paying and never went over my limit, she responded my complaint was raised July 2020 which was fully within the time limit (cc opened September 2014) and she also told them that I had several missed payments with them. I have accepted the decision and they have 4 weeks to get in touch with me. Thank you for all your help ! Hopefully the interest they owe back to me clears off the debt amount and marks the ccj as settled !
Ross says
Hi Lynn,
Newday did this, with my case, once I complained to the FOS after they rejected my complaint. This delayed my case until they provided the adjudicator with a reason as to why they thought this, as it WAS within timescale. Funnily enough, after a few weeks, they agreed that it WAS within timescale. I’m still waiting for an adjudicator decision, even though I was told, over a fortnight ago, that I would have a decision by the end of last week. Very frustrating .
Andrew says
Stick with it Ross New Day dragged out and disagreed with adj and provisional ombudsman decision but eventually accepted it early Jan this year I have seen nothing which suggests how long they take to give you the redress figures or make payment
I am at day 22 of the 28
AJ says
Hi Sarah, i went to the ombudsman over a next account due to irresponsible lending after next rejected my claim directly. They have now come back to the ombudsman with a offer of £1600 including interest and £100 apology payment. My question is will this get paid straight to the debt company that now have control over the account as I still owe £3000 or will it come to me first? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It would normally be used to reduce the balance you owe to the debt collector.
Is this a good offer?
If you want to accept, you should also ask for the negative marks on your credit record with Next and with the debt collector to be removed.
AL says
Hi again,
Just a quick question. I’ve got a complaint that is with adjudicator over barclaycard increases. I had to raise a new complaint with Barclaycard over initial credit limit as adjudicator wouldn’t look at that as it wasn’t stated in my complaint with them (only the increases and he wouldn’t budge on that). Barclaycard have said they will give me a response to their investigation over the initial credit limit by the end of this week. Strangely though they have not produced a new statement this month or taken the interest charge. Its always produced by the 21st of each month and so far nothing. Do you have any idea why? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no idea!
Scott says
Hi,
Barclaycard are being funny at the moment, they usually produce a statement on a certain working day of the month as opposed to a certain date like other companies.
My personal one was always the 10th working day but now it’s a case of waiting till I get an email saying statement ready.
You’ll probably get a statement any day now.
Scott
Mike_p says
When I had one a few months ago you’d get a timeline when you logged into your account showing when the next statement was due. It only showed when logging in from a computer though, not on the app.
Andrew says
Hi,
any one is able provide aqua credit card email address where I can send my complaint?
Thanks
Mike_p says
I don’t think there is one, they sent me their fianl response by post and the letter only had an address and phone number. I think they do it delibearetely to make it more difficult to complain.
Mel says
Hello, I have received news from the FOS that HSBC will settle on the basis of the adjudicator findings. How is this calculated? Is it just all interest + charges multiplied by 0.8 for x years
Mel says
It’s for my overdraft by the way !
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what did the adjudicator say?
Mel says
Hi, they said
Re-work Mrs Graham’s current overdraft balance so that all interest, fees and charges applied to it from 1 January 2017 onwards are removed.
I don’t owe them any money now so I will get refund in full
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok that is nice and easy for the main bit of the refund. But the 8% part is only paid from the point where you would have had a clear account when these amounts have been credited.
Laura says
Hi Mel, just a quick question how quickly did hsbc come back to you after they agreed with the adjudicator decision? As in how long to send you the breakdown of the refund and for it to be paid? Thanks
Dls says
Hi Sara
I had a debt with consumer creation finance, contractual payment was £42 per month, I got divorced and had to go to Stepchange who helped me with a debt management plan (2015) and this debt was one of those included. Creation Finance accepted £5 per month at that time and then sold the debt to Lowell. Neither creation or Lowell have ever defaulted this debt.
All my others were defaulted and have now disappeared from my credit file. I contacted Lowell and asked them to default with the date of 2015. They replied and said “ Please be advised, your account is not defaulted. This means the account shows as active and there is no default registered on your credit file. As you are paying less than your contractual payment of £21.42 we will worsen your credit file and a default will eventually be entered.
If Lowell did apply a default due to non-payment, it would remain for six years and may affect your ability to obtain further credit.”
I replied and told them they cannot suddenly decide to add a default now or later without putting the date as 2015 as this would be treating me unfairly.
They replied and said they won’t put a default unless I fail to make the £5 a month agreed payment.
Do I need to do to Creation Finance and ask that they place a default for 2015?
I plan to pay this debt off soon and get a mortgage but it is the only one showing as DMP on my credit file and I would rather it disappears all together.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/ – as that says, you should ask t creation to add the default date then Lowell will have to use that.
Graeme says
Hi Sarah. I have recently had an adjudicator partially uphold a Vanquis complaint. I complained about the affordability of the card from issue and the subsequent credit increase. 1k limit at issue and 500 limit increase. The adjudicator has only upheld the increase and suggested that Vanquis refund the interest on amounts over the 1k initial limit. I have not heard whether they agree to this yet. The point is is it worth me pushing back to the adjudicator to say that I believe that all interest and charges should be refunded from the date of the credit limit increase, suggesting they should have frozen interest from here? Do you know of any precedent or accepted argument I could use for this ie ombudsman’s decisions I could reference? The difference in refund would be quite large if successful. I did not reference this in the initial complaint as I asked for full interest redress from the date of card issue. I would be happy with all interest refunded from date of increase and no further application of interest until the account can be cleared. Any tips would be great. Thanks for all the help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There aren’t any precedents in FOS, it doesn’t work that way.
The argument you can use (assuming it does apply to your case of course, it normally does, but you need to think about it, not just copy this out) is:
Vanquis considered raising your credit limit in November 2017 (or whenever).
If they had looked properly, they would have seen that you were in financial difficulty, because …. you had only made minimum payments for a long while …. because you were taking cash out on the card a lot … because there were gambling transactions showing… because you were going over your limit a lot… because you had made late payments … because the rest of your credit record would have shown the amount of your debt was going up, or there were payday loans, or you had missed payments to other credit. [whatever applies in your case]
This means they should not have increased your limit, but they should also at that point have offered to help you with forbearance, eg by freezing interest.
Because knowing you were in financial difficulty, it was not treating you fairly to carry on charging interest.
So the redress should be that all interest and charges should be refunded from that date.
I get the impression that adjudicators can sometimes be persuaded to change their minds and refund all interest from the date the uplift to credit limit was made. This can make a HUGE difference to the refund you get, so it is well worth pushing for. And ask for it to go to an Ombudsman if they won’t – don’t delay waiting for a response from Vanquis – you are changing your mind and this is best done as soon as possible.
Graeme says
That’s excellent, I can fit that nicely to fit my circumstances at the time. Thanks for your help
Graeme says
Hi Sarah
This is the response that I had from the adjudicator. “Whilst I appreciate that you may have been in financial difficulty prior to the increase, this financial difficulty didn’t occur initially when the credit card was provided, and therefore I haven’t determined that it was unaffordable. Therefore I wouldn’t advise that they would freeze the interest when you fell into financial difficulty, as that is a different type of complaint.
If Vanquis agrees to my recommendations, then no future interest would be charged, and you would only repay the capital amount.”
It is a little confusing as the adjudicator seems to suggest that whilst they wouldn’t recommend refunding interest on aid to date, they would recommend freezing it going forwards. In all honesty if this was the case I would be okay with it. I would be able to repay the remaining balance in 12-18 months as opposed to many years should interest continue to be charged.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think that is a confused decision. It’s up to you if you want to ask this to go to an Ombudsman. It will make a large difference to the refund, but if you are happy with the offer including freezing interest, then that’s fine.
Ross says
Just had news, from my adjudicator, with reference to my complaint against Newday. Whereas I felt that the card should never have been issued, the adjudicator had stated that the 2nd & 3rd increases shouldn’t have been granted but, the initial £900 limit was classed as reasonable. I’m all honesty, I don’t really mind about this view. The bulk of interest came from the higher limits and he has also asked them to pay £100 compensation (because of their incorrect stance on saying my complaint was out of time). Just have to wait now to see if they agree or it has to go to an ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you getting a full refund of all charges from the point the limit was increased?
Ross says
Hi Sara,
This is what they said;
Refund all interest and charges incurred as a result of the credit limit being increased above £900.
Add 8% simple annual interest on each of those amounts from the date they were charged to the date of calculation.
The above can be refunded to the outstanding debt, where applicable. New Day should look to buy back the debt to do so, if relevant.
If at any time the refunded amounts, including interest, result in Mr Ls account being in credit, that additional amount should be refunded with 8% simple interest
Pay Mr Lewis £100 in recognition of the distress that has been caused by this lending and its contribution to his overall debt situation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
go back and tell your adjudicator that Newday should have realised you were in difficulty when they increased your limit, so they should have treated you fairly and offered forbearance. Ask for all interest and charges to be refunded from that point.
This will make e BIG difference to the refund you get.
Ross says
Thanks so much Sara!
I have just emailed the adjudicator and let him know this.
Will keep you updated on how it goes as I see Newday appear to be starting to accept some adjudicator decisions so, fingers crossed 🤞
Ross says
Just let you know, the adjudicator has come back to say he will review my file again, and come back to me shortly. Thanks for the advice Sara!
LWat says
After submitting an unaffordabilty claim to HSBC 8 months ago the adjudicator has come back today and ruled in my favour. I was given a credit card with a limit of £5500 back in 2016. The limit has never been increased or decreased. I provided my credit file which showed high level of borrowing in the 6 months leading up to it and they didn’t do an income expenditure form.
I of course have to wait on HSBC accepting the decision but I am over the moon with this result. It wipes out a huge chunk of my debt and clears missed payment markers from my file putting me in a good position and lifting a huge amount of stress and depression from my shoulders for the first time in years!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Fingers crossed HSBC accept this and don’t drag this out further.
Andrew says
Looks like my New Day one is gonna be back and forth Ombudsman final decision ALl interest from May 2016 (Credit rise deemed unaffordable) so I have looked at statements may, June etc from 2016 onwards and added up the interest applied my calculation is 2500 plus late fees and cash advances marbles have come back with 1300 am I doing the calculations right ?
Aqua was unaffordable from opening so all interest would I believe there calculations are correct
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well one of you is wrong – is the Ombudsman statement very clear that all interest is to be refunded from that point?
Andrew says
Hi Sara see the extract from Ombudsman fonal decision can’t reply to your message for some reason
refund Mr L all interest and charges applied from the time of the increase on card 1 in
May 2016 to date;
refund Mr L all interest and charges applied on card 2;
remove any adverse information recorded about card 1 from May 2016 and any
adverse information recorded about card 2 from Mr L’s credit file;
if Mr L still has outstanding balance on his cards after the refunds above NewDay
should work with Mr L to ensure a suitable repayment plan based on Mr L’s income
and expenditure at the time it is set up. If, after the refund, there is a positive balance,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
nice and clear – go back and say they haven’t done this.
Andrew says
Very disappointed and disillusioned with my new day complaint
Background ombudsman final decision card 1 refunded in full from date if issue
Card 2 refund all interest from date of unaffordable credit increase
Anyway New Day on card 2 refunded proportionate interest I asked ombudsman support to look into it he said his interpretation was same as mine Ombudmsan has bow come back and said New Day have complied with the decision correctly
Do I have any options is it worth complaining to Fos about the Ombudsman
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked the Ombudsman why, as this is not what the Final Decision said when it said “refund Mr L all interest and charges applied from the time of the increase on card 1 in May 2016 to date” ?
Andrew says
Hi Sara
All I got told by the adjudicator support was they were satisfied New Day had co.plied with the decision
Only thing they hadn’t was how they calculated the 8%
Is there anymore I can do to me All means all if proportionate you state that ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell the adjudicator you would like an explanation IN WRITING as to why New Day are not refunding ALL changrges from the date of the increase as that is what the Ombudsman’s decision said they should.
DEAN PITCHER says
Hi sara, i have 3 credit cards with outstanding balances, 2 barclaycards and a vanquis card. do you have the email addresses so i can make a complaint against them please.
many thanks
Dean
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Vanquis – customer.relations@vanquisbank.co.uk put COMPLAINT as part of the subject line.
Barclaycard – use the App if your account is still open. Otherwise it’s phone (not recommended) or write.
DEAN PITCHER says
thanks sara,
write a letter recorded delivery? what about aqua thats one of my barclaycard ones.
many thanks
dean
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Aqua is owned by New Day, not Barclays?
Is your Barclaycard closed?
DEAN PITCHER says
yes all 3 are closed.
aqua on my debt management is barclaycard. regrding aqua do you have a compliants link please?
many thamks
dean
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can use resolver (https://www.resolver.co.uk/) – it is like an odd sort of claims company that doesnt charge a fee and only forwards your complaint. Select “irresponsible lending” as the reason you are complaining.
Emily Morris says
Hello I have been in overdraft with Lloyds for about 2 years, my limit is £550 and I have never got out of this, I have been charged about 50p per day for this and I had made a complaint. They are going to ring me about this but can you advise on what to tell them/say please when they do? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you been in it every month for some of the month? How much of the month?
Or in it every day of every month, even when you have been paid?
Emily Morris says
Yes I have been in it constantly for about a year, and in and out for about two years. I have also gone into an overdraft for the majority of the past year
Thank you
Emily Morris says
Yes I have been pretty much living in it, when I have been paid it has gone out of it for a few days if that, and then back into it again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, And has the bank increased your limit during this time?
Emily Morris says
Yea they did
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then that sounds like a good complaint to take to the ombudsman. Ask for a refund of all the interest from the point they increased your credit record.
Paul says
Hi,
The adjudicator upheld my complaint against Newday but Newday never replied back before the adjudicators date. What happens now does the adjudicator give Newday another 2 weeks or does the Ombudsman step in.
Thanks
Emily Morris says
Thank you, Lloyds will be ringing me today about my complaint, is there anything else I need to tell them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You know exactly what happened to you … from what you have said, I would suggest saying that at the point where they increased your overdraft limit you were alreeady using it for most of the month and they should have realised then that you were in difficulty. They could have seen payday loans on your credit record and also payments to those on your bank statements. Say tincreasing your credit limit was not responsible and they should at that point have offered your forbearance, being able to repay the overdraft without incurring interest. So you would like a full refund of interest from that point.
but there may be other points to make too, as to why they should have realised you were in difficulty?
N says
Santander still haven’t replied to adjudicator. They have given them another week to reply thats 8 weeks altogether since the first adjudicator told them to refund me. I am starting to think they are just ignoring and im going to have to wait another god knows how many months for an ombudsman. Getting fed up now
A says
Evening,
I have won a case with the adjudicator in regards to Capital One and now just working out the figures.
The story is I complained they should never have increased my limit on my credit card in 2015. They have agreed to refund all interest and charges since this increase. My question is, the interest they are refunding would this only be equal to the interest over and above the increase. So if my limit increased from 1750 to 2500 and I’m maxed out on my credit card, the interest they will refund will be the difference between the two and not on the whole balance? I hope that makes sense.
I just want to make sure I understand before agreeing or questioning it.
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you think at the point they increased your limit it should have been obvious that you were in financial difficulty?
But if that is the case, you should ask the adjudicator to change the decision to refunding ALL interest from then on – on the grounds that at that point Cap One should have seen your difficulty and offered forbearance.
This will make a very big difference to the refund you get.
Carl says
Hi Sara
Thank you for the link to this page.
Ok so FOS have just agreed to uphold the following interest on this –
14 June 2010 – Vanquis Credit Card opened with limit of £250 17 July 2012 – limit increased to £1,000
22 October 2013 – limit increased to £1,750
20 March 2014 – limit increased to £2,500
17 July 2014 – limit increased to £3,000
20 March 2015 – limit increased to £3,500
16 May 2016 – C made Vanquis aware she was in financial hardship
2 June 2016 – settled and closed Vanquis account
How to put things right
Pay £100.00 in compensation
Refund all interest and other charges to C for any balance of £250.00 from
July 2012 onwards
Add 8% statutory interest to this and provide a breakdown of how this was calculated. As interest has tax payable on it, please provide a tax certificate (if required) to C as she may be entitled to claim this back where appropriate
2nd part coming in another message
Carl says
Next steps-
At the same time, we can see C did use the capital balance for day-to-day spending and it’s not our role to penalise businesses, so I wouldn’t say it would be reasonable for
them to have to pay all this back. But, we wouldn’t expect them to profit from it either. As such all charges and fees incurred over the balance of £250.00 should be refunded to C.
As C had cleared the balance, she should also have 8% simple interest added on top. The gross and net interest should be broken down and sent to C directly with any tax payments made on his behalf clearly noted to.
I think this is a fair outcome in the circumstances, for the reasons I’ve explained. Please let me know by 15 February 2022 whether you agree to my recommendations. If I can’t resolve things then an ombudsman here can look at everything again and make a final decision.
I assume that is all interest paid from the very start? Including the £250 when opened account. is this correct?
These limits were at the top every time from minute I got them it was maxed out.
Also 8% added is that per year of having the card or just once
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you ever exceed the £250 limit before July 2012?
Carl says
Yes straight away I exceeded the limit
A says
So basically I had two complaints in with Capital One originally, they upheld one, refunded all charges and closed the account and removed all negative markers but didn’t agree with the other complaint, hence why I sent it to the adjudicator. The adjudicator sided with them unless I provided more information and by chance I had the response to my other complaint they upheld admitting they were irresponsible for giving me the credit in May 2015 and this was only one week before they upped my limit on the other card in May 2015 also. So I went back to the adjudicator with this saying how can they agree with one but deny the other when the one they agreed with came only one week before. On going back to Capital One they then came back with the offer to refund interest and charges since the last increase in 2015 before I defaulted in 2016.
So I’m not sure whether the adjudicator actually upheld my complaint as she never formally said. It was just Capital One offering the terms.
I also asked Capital One to remove all negative markers from my credit file and they came back and said if they did that then as the refund was not enough to cover my existing balance another default would be added and last another 6 years and there was no point as my original default is due to drop off in June. Needless to say I am fuming with this mis-information and went back to the adjudicator and said that I was unhappy with the way Capital One were handling the case. She is looking into it again.
Emma says
Hi
I put a complaint into new day about unaffordable lending a few weeks ago on a aqua and marbles card.
Aqua opened in July 2016. Credit limit £250. At the time I had nine defaults on my file and £45000 in debt.
They raised my credit limit in December 2016 and have agreed that they shouldn’t have done this. They have paid a proportionate interest refund. They have not paid the 8% interest and will not remove from my credit file.
My marbles card only opened in July 2021 they have agreed and said I should not have been able to open it.
Do you think it is worth me still asking for all interest to be refunded from AQua plus the 8% plus removal from credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago did you accept this offer?
Emma says
I haven’t accept anything they have just added the money to an outstanding balance last week.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so this isn’t a terrible offer as the £250 is pretty low.
But you will definitely get a larger refund if they pay a full refund from December 16, not a “proportionate” one. I suggest you go back to them and say that is what you want, they should have realised in Dec 16 that you were in difficulty and have offered forbearance and frozen the interest at that point. So now they should refund you all the interest from them.
You won’t get 8% interest unless the refund takes your balance back into credit.
Emma says
Hi Sara
The initial limit was £250 it was raised in Dec 2016 to £900 and then June 2017 to £1500. It has always been at its limit and I have just been paying minimum payments. The proportion refund that they have sent has left me in credit by £130 so the balance is now back in credit. Does this mean they should pay the 8% interest?
What sort of difference does a full refund make? they haven’t sent me any breakdown of the refunds.
Thanks for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you will only be paid the 8% interest from the time your account would have been in credit if the interest charges had not been made. That may be quite recent and the 8% amount may not be large.
Can you add up all the interest you paid since Dec 16? How much larger is that than the refund they have offered?
Andrew says
They have done this with me too paying proportionate interest despite the ombudsman stating ALL interest now got to go back to ombudsman for clarification on decision
Joan f says
Hi Sara,
Im hoping you can help me. I had two catalogue accounts (jd Williams and premier man) same company I know. I have paid off all my debt but only these accounts remain on my file and I have submitted complained to the fsa about them as they had given me loads of credit limit increases while I had a ccj and several defaults. I was in a spiral of debt that thankfully I’m out of now. The debts went to Cabot and I was in a debt management plan when I paid these off, I have a mortgage lender for bad credit that is considering me but on my statutory report these accounts mention the ‘debt management plan’ which I’m no longer in. Is this right? The accounts are settled and obviously no longer in a DMP. I don’t want the lender to think I’m in one still or it to be brought up at all really.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago were the accounts settled?
Joan f says
Both accounts paid off in full 11 months ago, I knew they would remain on my file but didn’t think they would say ‘debt management plan’ as that plan isn’t active anymore
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are the default and CCJ still showing on your credit record?
Joan f says
Yeah default is 2 years old on one and 2 1/2 on another. I also obviously knew the defaults would be there but didn’t think they would still say DMP. I’m quite confident my complaint will hold up with the FSA. Both accounts were given to me when I had a Ccj, 5 defaults, multiple payday loans and missed payments galore. They kept giving me credit limit increases that I didn’t ask for (and was too desperate to say no to) when I was unemployed and I’m fairly certain they never completed a credit check on me because it should’ve been immediately denied. One account was £1200 and the other £1500. Now that I’m out of debt it’s all very shocking to look back on. The problem is the FSA seems really backed up so it’s been 9 months and I haven’t heard back on my claim being assigned to a case worker. My back up plan is to go ahead with the broker that considers bad credit as I have a large deposit and no debt but I was hoping it wouldn’t say the DMP as it’s closed now.
And the CCJ is off my file now, that was a different debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would be surprised if a bad credit lender would care about a DMP where the debts have been settled. It is the default that is the problem, not the DMP.
I don’t recommend bad credit mortgages. The broker will say you can remortgage at a normal rate in a couple of years – there is no guarantee that that will happen. People can be stuck on very expensive mortgages for many years.
Joan f says
We had a meeting today and they have said of the possibility of going through in only my husbands name as he has perfect credit if it comes to that. Do you think I have a good chance of the ombudsman upholding my complaint considering the state of my credit at the time? I don’t even think I can convey how bad it was
Sara (Debt Camel) says
i would hope so but i cant guarantee this or the timescale.
if the mortgage can go through in his name and you are comfortable with this, it could save you a lot of money. You could then look at remortgaging into joint names later when the fix ends. You hiusband has to be able to afford the mortgage on his own, not taking your income into account.
Joan f says
Yes he can afford it alone, thankfully we’ve been saving well while paying all my debt off and we are looking at 30% deposit. I have to say I’ve found your site amazing for clearing debt and advice. I’ve had so many refunds and good outcomes from the info you provide. I’ve gone from near £20k debt to £0 in 3 years with your help. Thanks so much for what you do!
Tracey says
Hi, I am curious about the Doran v Paragon commission case regarding high commission on their ppi. Why did the judge rule they should be refunded the full 100% of commission and not just what was above the tipping point?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is not the right website to discuss this, as I said before, I can’t help..
Daryl says
So, I made an affordability complaint to Santander in relation to a Credit Card taken out in 2016, when at the time, I was gambling heavily and taking out payday loans regularly.
This is their response:
—————————————————–
I do apologise that you are unhappy that Santander allowed you to open a credit card with us.
We would not be able to tell a customer not to open a credit card if they apply for one as at the time the credit search took place in 2016, you were eligible for the credit card, therefore, this was opened for you. Santander offer a non-advised service which means that we would give you all of the information in regards to the account and you would need to make an informed decision and then sign the terms and conditions to agree to this.
—————————————————-
Am right in thinking they are trying to fob me off with a vague explanation here?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what credit limit did they give you at that point? did they later increase this?
Daryl says
They gave me a large £2,500.00 limit but they did not increase it as far as I recall.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“at the time the credit search took place in 2016, you were eligible for the credit card, therefore, this was opened for you.”
How nice.
So they assessed you – but the question is, did they make a proper assessment of whether £2,500 was affordable? This will depend on what the rest of your credit record showed at that point. An excellent record and little debt and a good income and it may have been reasonable… but what was your situation then?
Daryl says
my situation was poor.
Low credit score. Recent payday loans and I was gambling at the time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you send your complaint straight away to the Financial Ombudsman.
It is true Santander are not your financial adviser. But as a lender they had regulatory obligations to ensure that they checked credit is affordable for you – low credit score and recent payday loans suggest that you were in difficulty and they should not have offered such a large credit limit.
Daryl says
Thank you for the advice.
Dave L says
Had an interesting experience with an adjudicator from the ombudsman today. He stated that 118118 have done nothing wrong in selling off a debt even they knew of my ongoing mental health issues. I have sent him a copy of the standards of lending practise with it highlighted
Have to say they’re still arrogant this is their replying after messing around the FOS adjudicator for two weeks . Thank you for your email. We would like this case to go to Ombudsman.’ Kind of underlines their unprofessionalism with no coherent argument.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think 118 is a signed up to those Lending Standards. In an6 case, most debt collectors are a lot nicer to deal with than bad credit lenders like 118!
Dave L says
I don’t disagree sadly I’m this case I got BW legal who were very awkward . It took three months for my refund from 1181-8 to be applied and they also miscalculated telling me I was entitled to a refund to my bank account. Then changed their minds. Made a complaint , then sent to ombudsman. They advised ombudsman that I had withdrawn my complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yeah, they are difficult. Have you explained your MH problems and asked for your case to handled by their vulnerable customers team?
Dave L says
I did and it’s paid off now but still didn’t really help
Tim says
Hi Sara. Just a quick question. Are many people winning complaints against Vanquis credit cards for unaffordable lending? And does it come under providents payment arrangment? I took out s catd with them on 2013. £500 limit. They increased this several times when i had lots of loans from door step lenders . And i was paying of 6 loans from Provident that was on arrears. My repayments to them alone was about £600 pounds a month. My weekly wage was about £320 pounds a week. My question is should they have known i was having financial difficulties due to Provident being their sister company. F.O.S. found in my favour against Provident i received over £16000 of them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes people are winning complaints against Vanquis – expect this to have to go to the Ombudsman as they are not making good offers.
The Provident Scheme only covers Provident doorstep lending and Satsuma. It doesn’t cover Vanquis or Moneybarn.
£500 is quite a low limit but if Vanquis increased it that is probably the point you should ask for a refund from. Ask for a full refund of all interest from that point, not just a refund of the extra interest charged because of the higher credit limit. Because when they looked at your account to consider increasing it, they should have seen you were already in deep financial trouble and so they should have treated you fairly by offering forbearance – to freeze interest at that point.
I don’t know if Vanquis could see the Provident lending from their internal records but it would have been on your credit record anyway so they should have seen it there.
Jo o says
Hi Sara,
I had a Vanquis credit card that I’ve sent in a complaint for. I’ve checked back on ClearScore, Experian & TransUnion and the account was opened for some years and was removed in nov 2019. It had missed payments on it but no default. I’m just wondering can the account be put back on my credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and when did you first miss payments to it?
Jo o says
The first missed payment doesn’t appear on there. It only states my credit limit exceeded on sept 17 and a second missed payment on Oct 17. The first must’ve been some time before that
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I can’t explain why it has come off your credit records!
At some point they may realise this – it could be some sort of systems problem that has affected other people as well, and correct it.
But if you win your complaint, any negative marks should be removed.
Ross says
Is anybody else waiting for Newday to respond to an adjudicator decision? My adjudicator wrote to them a week last Friday, advising them of his thoughts and nothing back. I’m not really bothered if they disagree, as I’d just like to get it in the ombudsman queue (I’d be happy if they DID agree though, as saves more hassle).
C says
Hi,
Newday responded on the last day the adjudicator gave them and a further 2 weeks before it went to an ombudsman.
Ross says
Thanks C,
I’m still waiting, so let’s see what happens. It’s been over a week and a half, since the adjudicator also said he would review my file, again, after advice from Sara. Nothing back from them either. I’m afraid they MAY agree and they then send them their ‘updated’ findings and the whole saga starts again 🙄
Tim says
Hi Sara. I got my Vanquis credit card in 2013 and paid it off in 2017. I didnt know i could complain about creditcard unaffordability until i read about it on this forum. Can i still complain to them now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did Vanquis increase your credit limit?
Tim says
Yes started at £500 pounds
Increased to £1000. Then increased again to £2000 and them again to £2500. I was missing payments on other loans and i had 6 loans with Provident totaling about £16000 with repayments of about £650 pounds per month. I was also getting loans of other doorstep lenders to juggle my finances. If Vanquis had looked at my credi report they should have known i was having financial problems. My weekly wage was about £350 per week
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So your complaint is probablyu not about the first low limit but that they increased the limit so much. They should have seen the difficulties on your credit record and not increased your credit limit. At that point they should also have realised you were in financial difficulty and offered help by freezing the interest on your card, so you should ask for a full refund of all interest paid after the credit limit was increased to £1000.
If Vanquis say No, send it to the Ombudsman and explain you have only just founf out you could make an affordability complaint about a credit card. Say when and how you founf this it – there are no wrong answers, just tell the Ombudsman what happened in your case.
john salmon says
The FOS are driving me mad a bit..I have several cases with them.
One Investigator has refused to investigate two complaints because they are out of time but another Investigator has agreed to investigate five complaints that are out of time!
Surely there should be consistency!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked for the two to go to an Ombudsman?
Steve says
Unfortunately not. In my opinion it comes down to the level of adjudicator you get. Recently I also feel as though the Ombudsman have lost interest in resolving legitimate complaints and the adjudicator decisions are playing a far too greater emphasis on final results. Previously Ombudsman would dissect the case file, I think they’re are too back logged. My opinions/experience.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how many Ombudsman level decisions have you had?
Steve says
In total around 7 or 8. Past 12 months had 3
Sara (Debt Camel) says
7 or 8 Ombudsman decisions? How many were affordability complaints? Going back how long?
I get the impression FOS has worked its way through much of the overdraft complaint backlog, they are now going through quicker.
john says
Hi. I have a maxed out overdraft of £2000 with the Halifax. My wages are only around £1200 so i don’t have a hope of ever clearing it and i find the daily charges are pretty crippling as well. I’m terribly worried that if i make a complaint they’ll shut down my overdraft and i will be left with no money and will be unable to feed my kids or pay my rent. Any advice on how i should take this forward. Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you never get back into the black at any point in the month?
Are you also getting benefits?
How long has this been going on?
john says
No, my wages go in and take it to around -800 then obviously have to max it out again to live.
Only child benefit, working tax credit was stopped recently as they said as a family we were earning too much (my partner and i have about 2600 per month between us after tax).
Has probably been like this for 3 or 4 years (we are already on a DMP so don’t really have any spare cash).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Banks don’t normally remove an overdraft facility when someone makes a complaint – I don’t remember anyone having this problem. However I think you need to escape from this bank account anyway!
I suggest you open an account with a different bank – Monzo and Starling have good tools that help you budget – and move all your banking over there. Leaving the overdraft behind.
Then make a complaint about the overdraft. Say in your complaint that you have been in your overdraft constantly for 3 or 4 years, that the bank should have seen this as a sign you were in financial difficulty and offered you help. Say your overdraft limit should never have been increased to an amount that is larger than your income as it made it impossible to get out of it.
Ask for a refund of all the interest you have paid since EITHER the time your limit was increased too high OR 3 or 4 years. Do you know when your overdraft limit was increased?
You could also ask your DMP firm (who is it?) if you can include the overdraft in your DMP. It is a shame you did not do this from the start.
Mike_p says
I’m with Monzo and they are brilliant for budgeting. You can put your money into lots of different pots, and then set direct debits and standing orders to come out of particular pots. It tells you the amount of the direct debit the day before it’s taken so you are never taken by surprise. The only problem is that their account switching service closes your old account which isn’t very helpful if you want to leave an overdraft behind, you’d have to move all your direct debits manually (not a huge problem but a little annoying)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you can’t use the switching service when your aim is abandon your overdraft and then just pay it off as a debt.
john says
Ok thanks for the great advice – i will give that a try.
My DMP is with payplan tho i do hope if they do refund the interest and charges i don’tthink it will be a mile off covering it.
Harvey says
Just wondered what people experiences are with NewDay after adjudicator rules in your favour? (i.e do they respond within timeline adjudicator gives, how long do they take for refunds etc.)
Mike_p says
In my case they responded to the investigator the same day agreeing with what they said. I had a refund applied about three weeks later but it was only about half of what it should have been. I’m now chasing them up for the full amount via the adjudicator.
Craig says
Ombusdman final decision was over 5 weeks ago and i have yet to hear back from Newday. In my case the debt was sold to a debt management company and Newday have been advised to buy it back and recalculate. I have asked my adjudicator to chase for an update.
AL says
In addition to my message just sent to previous post…. do you think its fair that barclays won’t look after 2018 because I took out a large loan with them? They are saying they will not look at any refund beyond this point as they could not see any financial difficulties because I took out a large loan with them even though I’d been living in my overdraft with them for the previous 8 years (constantly in the red). So because they allowed me to take a large loan this meant that I was not in financial difficulties. My adjudicator seems to think this is fair even though I was living in my overdraft
Sara (Debt Camel) says
All I can tell is what you have said, obviously I haven’t seen the details. But to me none of this sounds right – only going back 6 years, not paying you in fol for 2015-18, saying everything was all right after they gave you a large loan…
(Was the loan supposed to clear the overdraft?)
AL says
No the loan was accepted with the reason given for applying for it was for a car purchase. Barclays accepted the loan application for £13000 even though I was only ever in overdraft for previous 9 years. They’re stating that I couldn’t have been in financial difficulties because I applied for a loan which they accepted. I feel that’s a poor reason on their part
So basically they won’t go back before 2015 (overdraft raises were 2012 and 2013) because I’ve complained out of time. They accept that their at fault from 2015 to 2018 but won’t refund anything from 2018 because I took out a loan from them. 2009 to present day continuously in overdraft
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is an extremely poor reason.
I think the chance of you losing this goodwill offer is very very low. I would expect the worst case is the Ombudsman says it sounds like a good offer and you should accept it.
No guarantees, but it does sound as though you could get a lot more back by taking this to the next level.
AL says
OK thank you. I shall try it at the next level and see what happens. Thanks again
N says
8th feb still waiting for santander to reply to adjudicator i’ve had enough now. They have had since 21st December to reply. 😢 has anyone had any complaints upheld with fos regarding santander i just feel so depressed 😔
Ross says
Surely you can just ask for this to be placed in the queue for an ombudsman now? As you say, enough is enough? I would contact your adjudicator and explain how you feel and tell them that they’ve had more than enough time to respond?
N says
Today they agreed with adjudicator thank god. Just a waiting game of payment now. Thanks for reply
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Very pleased for you!
N says
Thank you
The adjudicator said they will contact me direct do you have any idea if it will be a letter or phone call? I am still with the same bank also is it 28 days for payment the adjudicator has said santander will contact me and now she’s closed my case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry, I don’t know.
you should be paid in 28 days.
It’s up to you if you want to carry on banking with them. If you would like to switch, then Monzo and Starling are banks that provide a lot of good tools for people who want to keep an eye on their money and budget better.
N says
Thank you
i think i may change my banks although i dont have an overdraft anymore.
Jade says
Hi Sara, I have currently submitted an affordability complaint relating to 3 credit limit increases in 13 months and it was passed on to the FOS. They got in touch with me last week and asked for me to provide bank statements for the dates were the increase was which is fair enough as was expecting that.
The account is now in default and payments are being made through my DMP. Today I got a random email from ClearScore from Equifax stating that there would be a change to my March Report coming up, the change was that Aqua account would be removed from my credit report?!
I know when I previously won an affordability complaint against 118, it was removed entirely.
I know some credit reports moved it from active accounts to default/closed section of your report.
Does this mean I have won my complaint and they have removed it before I am issued my outcome letter from the investigator about what they need to do to put it right?
Have you ever heard of that before? I am so confused and don’t who to contact to query it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you just ignore this as it hasn’t harmed you. There isn’t much point in guessing. Wait until you get a response from the lender – who is it?
Jade says
Hi Sara, thanks for your reply the account was Aqua
Fred says
I have a case waiting to be assinged to a investigator but it’s been 18 months now. it’s for littlewoods. Is this normal? I just get an email from them every few months saying to wait and someone will be in touch. I have asked a couple of times they just say they have the information needed and they will be in touch.
I’ve had other complaints I have raised within this time and have all be finalised
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no that isn’t normal. I suggest you phone them up and ask what is happening.
Ross says
Hi Sara,
Newday had until today to respond to my adjudicator. I emailed him, yesterday, to ask 2 important questions. 1) had he had chance to review my file again, with reference to your advice about the forbearance. I asked him about this 2 weeks ago and he said would but, yesterday, said he will try to do it next week?!? 2) if Newday fail to respond, can it be queued for an ombudsman? He stated that it would be quicker being sorted at adjudicator level and he ‘hoped’ he could get it resolved. Does this sound right to you?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes. It is always quicker to try to get things sorted at the adjudicator level.
Ross says
Thanks for clarifying that Sara.
The only thing concerning me is IF they do agree, and he then reviews the case, what happens then? As they’d only be agreeing to his initial conclusions and not the one on the forbearance issue?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If he changes his mind, he will have to tell the lender who will then review their decision. If he doesnt change his mind, you ask for the case to go to an Ombudsman.
Lou says
After a long 15 months I have just heard from ombudsmen re- fashion world I need help explaining this please thanks in advance 😊
As I uphold this complaint in part, I think to put things right, it’s fair and reasonable for
J D Williams to refund any interest and charges incurred by Miss as a result
of the credit unfairly granted to them.
I don’t think the limit should have been increased from 30 November 2015 onwards.
Therefore, J D Williams should remove any interest and charges incurred after 30
November 2015 as a result of any increases.
That is, J D Williams can only add interest accrued on the balance up to the credit
limit of £125 this being the credit limit before 30 November 2015.
And, I don’t think J D Williams should’ve allowed new purchases at all after 10 June 2019 and I think the account should’ve been frozen at that time. To reflect this, J D Williams should remove all interest and charges (including BNPL interest) incurred on the account since 10 June 2019. J D Williams should work out how much Miss would have owed after the above adjustments.
Any repayment Miss made since 30 November 2015 should be used to reduce the adjusted balance.
If this clears the adjusted balance any funds remaining should be refunded to Miss along with 8% simple interest* – calculated from the date of overpayment to the date of settlement.
If after all adjustments have been made Miss no longer owes any money then all adverse information regarding this account should be removed from the credit file from 30 November 2015.
Or, if an outstanding balance remains, J D Williams should to look to arrange an affordable payment plan with Miss for the outstanding amount. As the debt was sold to a third party, J D Williams are to either repurchase the debt or liaise with third-party debt collection agency to ensure the above steps are undertaken. Once Miss has cleared the balance, any adverse information should be removed from the credit file.
I understand that Miss currently has an outstanding balance and I would like to remind J D William of its obligations to treat Miss fairly if they are having difficulties meeting the repayments. If Miss feels they have been treated unfairly they are to discuss this with the J D Williams first, and we can consider this as a separate complaint if she is unhappy with their response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this a decision from an adjudicator or an Ombudsman?
what part of it don’t you understand?
Lou says
Thank you for your reply sara :) This is from adjudicator, why is it all separated, eg the charges and interest to be removed from Nov 2015 on wards but them goes on to say the charge and interest from June 2019…. so does it intact mean that all charges and interest will be paid back from nov 2015 onwards?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the administrator is saying that from Nov 15 to jun 19 it is OK for the lender to charge interest on the original credit limit, but not the increase.
but from Jun 19 your situation was so bad they should have stopped charging any interest and it should all be refunded.
What was your situation in Nov 15 – at that point were you already in trouble?
Lou says
So I took the catalog out in June 2015 the first increase was from November 2015, they has said that they did do enough checks but from November they should have checked more as I was in alot of trouble with payday lenders etc
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so in Nov 21 there were a lot of payday landers showing on your credit record?
In that case I think you should go back to your adjudicator and say that you were clearly in a lot of financial trouble in Nov 15 and you think all interest should be stopped from that point.
Tim says
Hi Sara. Been using Capital one creditcards for about 8 years . The problem is they kept allowing me to consolidate the 2 cards i had with them putting both credit limits together onto 1 card. After about a week when then other card was closed i was allowed to apply for another card with the same credit limit i had just closed. This has carried on for several years. My first credit limit was £500 pounds and now it stands at £3600 pounds. My credit score is very low and lots of door step lending on my credit file. I was using my cards to get cash out of atms. I was struggling with debt all the time and was gambling with the creditcard cash. If withdrew £1900 pounds in one month alone and lots of other months £300 or £400 pounds a month. Often paying minimum repayments to Cap 1. I have made succesful claims against doorstep lenders. Do you think i could claim against Cap 1 for unaffordable lending? Im a bit worried due to my card balance nearly maxed out
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes I think this sounds like a good complaint.
– allowing this pattern of consi=olidation – new card to continue is very odd – they should have looked closely at an application and rejected it.
– taking out a lot of money on a card is a sign that you are in difficulty if it is done month after month
– it sounds as though you had a lot of other credit showing on your credit record which should also have been a warning signal.
I suggest you should ask for a refund of ALL the interest you have paid from the first time they gave you a second card after consolidation. If you don’t know this date, just say that is what you want and also ask them to supply details of the dates and credit limits of when you consolidated 2 cards and took out another card.
Im a bit worried due to my card balance nearly maxed out
Can you afford the minimum payments on this card?
Tim says
Maybe? I might phone them and ask them for a payment plan and close the account. Would i be able to ask for the fees back for withdrawing cash from the atm? (£3 pounds per £100 pounds) or is that a bit cheeky?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, you should ask for a refund of all interest and charges. It isn’t cheeky, that is what you should get if your complaint is upheld.
Chris says
Hi Sara – just an update that I managed to get a refund from my bank for overdraft charges thanks to your advice – thank you again. I also have a credit card with the bank. Although I don’t think that the credit limit was increased in recent years, the card was always maxed out and I was paying the minimum payment. Would there be a case here despite the fact that the limit hasn’t actually been increased for quite a few years? I guess the fact that they’ve given a refund towards the overdraft might strengthen the case? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large was the limit – was this daftly high? Also did they previously increase the limit?
Chris says
£1600 and it was maxed out for many years. There was a second card too with a lower limit. I think they once wrote to me about persistent debt re the £1600 card and I made larger payments for about three months (not much larger) then went back to the minimum payment. On the smaller balance card, they wrote to me about persistent debt a few times but I maintained minimum payments. Both cards were minimum payment for many, many years. The last increases were probably about 15 years ago.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you may find this hard to win. 15 years ago is going to be very difficult to go back and themits were stupidly high.
The FCA only brought in the persistent credit card debt rules a couple of years ago,
If you want to try, you could try not using the standard template but arguing when the ban reviewed your overdraft, it should at that time have also seen you were in problem with your credit card and offered forbearance at that point on the card. I haven’t seen anyone try this argument.
Omg says
Hi how long did it take for the bank to refund you after fos decision please
Jade says
Hi Sara, Quick question, – Am I able to complaint against to the FOS case which wasn’t upheld by Zopa relating to a complaint as I don’t believe that I should have been given the card in June 2021. I have had a number of affordability Complaints upheld by the FOS relating to 118, Lifestyle, Aqua and Fluid, Vanquis dating back to June 2019 ,It wasn’t upheld as they believed that they acted responsible and the credit limit was only £500.
It shouldn’t make a difference should it if it was such a small limit as I still wouldn’t be able to make the minimum payments without borrowing additional due to the amount of active accounts the credit report
They should have been checked to see that I missed payments on some if not all of my accounts, Bank statements would also show my gambling addiction of over £15,000 from April 2021, The investigator didn’t uphold my complaint due the reason I explained and I missed the deadline to respond for it to be escalated to the Ombudsman, Due to the new information of the 5 affordability complaints that were upheld, I wanted to know if I am able to submit a new complaint or reopen the original one?
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. You cannot now reopen this complaint or submit a new one.
And anyway, the problem is that a £500 limit is low and the minimum payments on it would have been very low – so FOS is unleikley to decide that the lender should have looked into this in great detail.
Jade says
Hi Sara,
I have been in contact with a credit card company following on from a non-upheld complaint by the FOS, due to the circumstances following on from advice from the FOS they suggested that I could ask the company direct to see if they could take the negative markers of my account as a gesture of goodwill due to the stress that was given. They agreed to look into this on 01.02.22 however during this time they actually defaulted my account on 09.02.22 and then turned around and said to me that they couldn’t do anything now it had defaulted . Am I wrong in thinking that they should have held the account until a resolution was agreed.
Are they able to do this? Or should they have held the account while they investigated
are credit card companies allowed to ask for health records confirming a mental illness?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you are saying that they should not have sold your loan because of your mental health problems, then yes they can ask for information about this. If you supply it, it’s possible they may get the debt back and remove the default – I can’t say this will happen but it could.