In September 2022, the debt collector Lowell bought Hoist’s UK business, with over 2 million defaulted accounts.
Most of these debts were loans, credit cards or overdrafts from lenders such as Barclays, Egg, HSBC, Newday and Santander.
Lowell is moving over the Hoist accounts to its system. With so many accounts to be transferred, this is being done in batches.
When yours is switched over, you should be sent a letter from Lowell. The first letters I heard about were in February 2023, and there have been a lot more in March and April.
Contents
What should happen
If this all goes smoothly:
- your account should be moved over to the Lowell system
- if you have a direct debit, that should be changed by Lowell so you do not have to do anything
- if you are making bank transfers yourself or paying by standing order you will need to change to paying a Lowell account
- your credit record should be changed to show that Lowell now own the debt, but the default date should be the same as it was before
- you will get a letter from Lowell with the details including your Lowell reference number.
Not paying? Lowell will want you to start
If you ignore any debt collector, you are likely to be taken to court for a CCJ at some point. Problem debts rarely just disappear.
Your options include:
- making a payment arrangement with Lowell. See How does a payment arrangement work & is one right for you? for details. Do not offer more than you can afford every month;
- offering a token payment or explaining to Lowell that you have priority debts and cannot afford to make any payment at the moment;
- making a settlement offer if you have some spare money. These do NOT mean the default will stay on your credit record for longer, it will still drop off after 6 years. See A Guide to Settlement Offers for details.
- if you have other problem debts it is better to look at your full situation, not try to sort debts out one at a time. Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
You could also think about:
- asking Lowell to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the debt, see How and when to ask for the CCA;
- whether you could make an affordability complaint to the original lender. If you win that it could reduce or clear the amount owed and improve your credit record.
Can’t afford your current payment arrangement?
If you have been paying Hoist £20 a month, say, this may have been affordable when you set it up a couple of years ago. But now the rising cost of living may mean that you really can’t afford that much.
See this transfer to Lowell as a good point to review the arrangement. You may need to reduce it to £5 a month, or even nothing if your mortgage or rent or energy bills are now much higher.
So talk to Lowell about this. All debt collectors have been told by the regulator that they have to be sympathetic to people in difficulty.
But also think about taking debt advice on your full situation. Lowell may be happy to accept nothing for a while – but it doesn’t actually resolve the debt problem.
Some questions and problems
“Is this legal?”
Yes, it is. You have no right to be consulted over this or to refuse to allow your debt to be sold. The money you previously owed to Hoist you now owe to Lowell.
This sort of sale is pretty common in the debt management world. Hoist itself bought Robinson Way and Compello some years ago.
“I’m still paying Hoist – should I stop?”
You don’t need to do anything unless Lowell tell you to.
The money you are paying to Hoist is not going to get lost, it will still be credited to your debt.
“Lowell has written to me about a debt that I never owed”
This may be some form of “mistrace” where you have been wrongly identified as the person that owes the debt.
You could send Lowell a standard Prove It! letter, but I suggest you add in any helpful other details. For example, “Hoist never contacted me about this alleged debt”, “I have never had any accounts with Santander” or “You say this is a Barclaycard account, but I have had a Barclaycard for more than 10 years and have never had any payment difficulty with it.”
Don’t ignore this, it is better to get it sorted out now rather than in court.
“I can’t make a payment on the Hoist page”
If you haven’t yet had the transfer letter from Lowell, you won’t know your Lowell reference number, so you can’t just pay Lowell.
This may feel worrying, especially if you are making payments after a CCJ. But in practice, Lowell is not going to get aggressive if you miss a payment in this situation.
If you are very concerned, you could email to support@lowellgroup.co.uk explaining your situation.
“I’ve only been contacted about one Hoist account”
This is probably because the accounts are being handled in different batches. Don’t assume one you haven’t heard about isn’t being transferred, or that it has somehow got lost so you can stop paying it.
“Hoist couldn’t produce the CCA in 2019”
If you have had a letter from Hoist saying the debt has been sold to Lowell, you can ignore this.
But if you get a letter from Lowell asking you to set up a payment arrangement, I suggest you reply saying what happened with Hoist. If you have the letter or email from Hoist saying they cannot produce the CC, attach that.
If Lowell persists, send them a new request to produce the CCA.
“Lowell has asked me to pay an old debt but it’s statute barred”
You may assume the debt is statute barred if it has been more than six years since you paid it. But it isn’t always easy to tell, see Statute barred debt – common questions. If you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this, they have a template letter you can sent Lowell to say the debt is statute barred.
When there is already a CCJ, the debt will never become statute-barred, but it becomes harder to enforce, see next question. If Lowell say there is a CCJ, but you knew nothing about this and it doesn’t show on your credit record, ask Lowell to produce the details of the CCJ.
“Lowell has sent me a letter about an old Hoist CCJ I have never paid”
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this. A debt collector can only “enforce” a CCJ that is more than 6 years old which you have not been paying if it goes back to court to get special permission.
Have you had a problem with this transfer?
Leave a comment below this article!
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Ash says
Hoist Finance UK Holdings Limited registered a claim against me in November 2020 – after contacting them for more information (without prejudice, not admitting to anything), they put my account on hold. All communication then stopped and they have not pursued anything since then (I.e. there has been no default judgment entered).
Now Lowell have taken over, they have said they are writing to the court to take over the claim that was started – but, since then the debt has become statute barred. What I’m struggling to find out about is whether just by registering a claim back in 2020 but not pursuing it, did that that restart the limitation clock or is this in fact something that is now unenforceable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Starting a claim normally “stops the statute barred clock”. So if it wasn’t statute barred in 2020, it still isn’t.
What information did you ask Hoist for and have Lowell now provided this? What sort of debt was it originally?
Ash says
Ouch – that’s frustrating that just instigating a claim restarts the clock. I believe I sent a CCA request but I can’t remember whether I did in fact receive anything from Hoist. It was mid-pandemic and to be honest, given that all communication stopped and it’s been 2.5 years since they “registered the claim”, I had forgotten about it until I received the letter from Lowell. However, I’ve not had anything else from Lowell since receiving that letter, and I also haven’t heard anything from the court.
Surely Lowell can’t just take over a 2.5 year old claim that Hoist never pursued? I’m not sure what to do now…
Original debt related to a Badclaycard credit card
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s odd that Hoist didn’t restart the claim if they had supplied you with the CCA agreement…
I suggest you check whatever paperwork and emails you have, and, if you can’t find anything, reply to Lowell that you asked Hoist for a copy of the CCA agreement and, having checked your records, you do believe this was ever sent to you.
Are you in a position to clear the debt now or make a settlement offer if they find the CCA?
I suggest you talk to National Debtline and/or post of the Legal Beagles forum https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues/received-a-court-claim if Lowell find the CCA.
Craig says
If u had a complaint with hoist make sure Lowell are informed hoist tryed to tell me I Dident make payments that I did and for about 3 years now I refused to pay till joist fixed it Lowell got in touch openly told me they can see payments and the communications and there investigate it 5 weeks on still nothing
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Definitely!
What sort of debt was this?
Craig says
Barclays finance and Barclay card I put complaint in stating behavior of hoist ect and why I stopped paying as they needed to sort my payments out they gave me acknowledgment of complaint but since nothing
Brendan says
Hi Sara I follow you regularly but need a response to this question if possible.
How can a company like Lowell be allowed to buy a debt at approximately 80% reduction then chase for the full amount? Surely that breaks the Apr charge allowed. Is there no way of being allowed to challenge this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. You borrowed X at Y% APR, that remains unchanged. The lender you originally borrowed from sold their rights to Hoist. Now Hoist has sold them to Lowell. But the debt remains the same.
I understand why it is annoying, but there is nothing you can do to challenge this.
But the fact the debt was bought at a discount means the debt collector may accept a partial settlement offer from you.
Brian says
Hello Sara and thank you for your very interesting article about debts being sold from Hoist to Lowell. Your article came at an opportune moment as I received a rather intimidating letter from Lowell today.
I’m a little bit confused so could you kindly clarify some things please. In your article you said, the credit record should change to show that Lowell now owns the debt, but the default date should be the same as it was before. However, my Experian credit file doesn’t show any record of the debt so therefore no mention of Lowell or Hoist. In fact my credit rating is classed as excellent 974/999. I did have to make a complaint to Hoist last year because they kept texting my wife rather than me (not sure how they got her number as we haven’t had a financial connection for a long time). Also last year I asked Hoist to produce a copy of the CCA which they did. This showed the original credit card was taken out in May 2007 with Bank of Scotland.
I don’t really want to contact Lowell as I’m hoping if I don’t contact them then, in due course, the debt will become statute barred. So, the other thing I wanted to ask you is how does the statute barred rule work? My understanding is that the clock starts from when I last conducted them. So would that be from the last time I contacted Hoist?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Roughly when did you default on this debt? When did you last make a payment to it?
Brian Rose says
Hello again Sara,
I’ve been looking through my paperwork and I can only see that I was making £1 per month token payments to my creditors in 2014 and I’ve checked back 7 years on my bank statement (to 2016) and there were no payments whatsoever going out then. I have been getting texts and letters from my other creditors but I’ve been ignoring them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. It is possible that the debt may have been statute barred at the time you contacted Hoist last year – I cannot given an opinion on this.
If it was statute barred then it will remain statute barred, nothing you do after that point can unbar it.
Brian Rose says
Thank-you Sara.
Paul Brookes says
I made arrangements last month to pay a payment plan.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This arrangement was with Hoist?
Before this arrangement, when was the previous time you made a payment to this debt?
Jim McDonald says
Hi Sara, I’ve also been getting letters/calls from Lowell since this “sale” has taken place. My position is that Hoist did raise a court claim against me back in 2019/20 – and after I requested info (CCA/proof of T&C supplied with original credit card) Hoist discontinued the claim and I assumed that was it.
Surely if a claim has been “discontinued” then Lowell wouldn’t really stand much chance of pursuing the alleged date legally? I assumed by ignoring them I was doing the right thing?
Email received back in 2020:
“Dear Sirs
We refer to the above legal proceedings and confirm that we continue to act on behalf of the Claimant.
Please find attached herewith, by way of filing, the Claimant’s Notice of Discontinuance.
The Defendant has been included in the distribution of this email, using the email address the Defendant provided as an address for service in his filed defence, by way of service of the same.”
This was emailed to the court and I was copied in.
Thanks for any forthcoming advice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what do the Lowell letters say?
Jim McDonald says
basically, speak to us – log into website etc. – and “make an arrangement” to repay the “debt” – they’ve also phoned several times asking me to confirm my personal details before the speak in detail – and I always refuse.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So far as I know, having the previous claim discontinued won’t prefer Lowell from starting again.
I suggest you give them your details and explains what happened before.
Lynne says
Recently I keep getting letters from Lowell regarding arrangements for two catalogue debts which I have been paying by standing order each month for several years now.
They are claiming I have paid nothing when in fact I have paid the arranged amounts each month.
I have checked and the payments are definitely being paid.
I have emailed them about it to no avail.
What is the best way to deal with this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have been paying Lowell?
How old are these debts – when were the catalogue accounts opened?
Lynne says
I have managed to find one on credit karma but not the other one.
Strangely the payments are recorded as up to date and none missed.
This one is a Mail order one started 18/12/15
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you email them with COMPLAINT as the subject and attach a screen shot of your bank account showing the payments. It may be they have the wrong reference number, so Lowell aren’t connecting them to your account.
FloppySock says
Hi – my debt was with hoist and I was paying £100 and they were contributing £200+ towards the debt under the you pay we pay plan they had. Before Lowell bought the debt I asked the hoist team about a CCA which they since sent me, but at the same time they cancelled my payment arrangement (didn’t tell me they would do this and I never asked them to).
Now the debt is with Lowell the full balance is due, even though when it was with hoist as long as I kept my monthly £100 payments up it’d have been settled once I’d paid ~£2000.
Lowell don’t seem to have a similar arrangement so it looks like I’m now on the hook for the full amount, despite the reduced payment plan I had arranged with hoist. Is there anything I can do here. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the £100 affordable?
Bill says
Hi Sara (Debt Camel)
I had a credit card with Barclays in 2014, and the debt was subsequently sold to Hoist. Barclays issued a default notice in February 2018 and I haven’t contacted them since, nor have I contacted Hoist or responded to any letters or emails. They have never issued any court proceedings against me or given me notice of their intention to issue them. I live in Scotland, could you advise me if this debt will be statute barred?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to a Scottish adviser. You can phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 or you can post in the comment on this page https://www.advicescotland.com/home/statute-barred-debts/.
Bill says
I completely ignored Cabot they then sent me a letter saying my account was enclosed and I was no longer obliged under Scottish to make any payment. :-D
DonkeyKong says
It said above
” A debt collector can only “enforce” a CCJ that is more than 6 years old which you have not been paying if it goes back to court to get special permission.”
I can’t get a straight answer about CCJ’s older than 6 years.
1. What are the chances of a creditor going back to Court to get “special permission” ask for more time?
2. What are the chances of a Court granting them more time?
3. On what grounds could they ask the Court for more time and based on what law?
4. Are there any reports of it happening from consumer credit card debt?
5. If you have a debt for years which you can barely service, then default for 5.9 years, then have a CCJ for 6 years at what point does one say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH if the debtor has no means to pay, but has never acknowledged the debt or engaged with the plethora of debt collectors that have each taken it in turn to abuse and harass me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1-4 I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
5 I understand why this is annoying but the fact is that there is no statute of limitations that applies to CCJs
Donkey Kong says
I really would be grateful to hear your answers to 1 – 4
I have not had anything positive from any of the three charities.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you being actively pursued for a CCJ older than 6 years which you have Not made any payments to?
DonkeyKong says
No but I suspect it might be soon as it will expire in the next 6 to 8 months if memory serves. I have never made any payments to it, the CCJ was obtained at an address I was at many years ago, yet the credit ref DB had my then current address, they showed that when they wrote to me soon after.
As it was obtained in this underhand manner I was wondering what are the chances of a creditor going back to Court to get “special permission” ask for more time? I see it mentioned that they have to do this but wonder what are the chances of a Court granting them more time, on what grounds could they ask the Court for more time and based on what law? I am not clear what would differentiate my CCJ from any other CCJ, what would make a Judge agree to it. Otherwise the flood gates would open with similar application and what purpose would the 6 year limit serve if it could just be overridden. I would appeal it, I have no money so would likely be able to get legal aid and I would try to find a debt charity behind me to create some case law to put an end to this type of harassment.
Are there any reports of it happening from sold on consumer credit card debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How about you wait and see what happens?
You can’t get legal aid for this sort of case.
DonkeyKong says
Hi Sara
I have been waiting and seeing for many years, unfortunately I no longer have the luxury of waiting (for health reasons) and I would just like to tidy things up so that there is not a lot to deal with in the future by my executor.
So I would really appreciate your thoughts on 1 – 4
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1-3 it depends on the facts of the case. Which is why speculating now is pointless and I am not going to write a thousand words looking at different possible situations
4 National Debtline would see more cases so are are better placed to answer this
Tony says
HI
My one account was passed on to Hoist on 26/07/17 and last payment was received on 25/07/13 , amount owing according to them£6200.Default date 06/05/11. I did dispute this as received a letter from Robinson who asked me to set up a payment plan on 10/08/17. i phoned them and asked details of the debt and proof .I think I asked for CCA at the time also.ON 17/08/17 they wrote saying still trying to find the info,account will be on hold, until resolved.On 25/07/18 another letter saying thanks for getting in touch still trying to get info.Then on 8/12/18 sent aletter saying as not been availble to provide details of dispute,have marked account as unenforcable, meaning we will not pursue any legal action and informed client-Hoist to remove any reporting etc but account remains outstanding.
As of today received letterfrom LOWELL asking to contact them to make a payment plan, letter also from Hoist saying the debt been sold.
Would welcome your opinion
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send Lowell a copy of the 8/12/18 letter.
Tony says
Hi Sarah
This is reply from Lowell since I sent them the letter from Robinson’s way
I have reviewed the letter from Robinsons way and it states that they have marked your account as unenforceable, meaning that they will not pursue any legal action against it. However they have clearly stated that the account balance remains outstanding and they wanted to work with you towards and affordable arrangement.
I have also checked the details from our side and I can see that your former Barclaycard account, Lowell reference number 433554912 is statue barred. This account is Statute Barred which means it can no longer be recovered through any court action, however the debt does still exist which is why we’ve continued to attempt to contact you.
I can work with you today to agree an affordable repayment plan?
Please advise on how you would like to proceed moving forward?
Next Steps
Contact will continue until you get back in touch with us.
Sara If I say I don’t want yo make any arrangements ,what would they do ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this one debt? or is the bet that was with Robinsons Way a different one to the Barclays debt?
Tony says
Yes Sara it’s one debt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then that is simple. If you reply to them that as the debt is statute barred you will not be making any further payments, they should not contact you again about it.
The relevant regulator rule is this:
CONC 7.15.8 A firm must not continue to demand payment from a customer after the customer has stated that he will not be paying the debt because it is statute barred.
Tony says
Will do and many thanks Sara .
DonkeyKong says
@Tony
It has become apparent from other forums that Lowells are mailing everyone on the database on the off-chance that they will be dumb enough to pay them. I would not even engage with them because such companies just look at engagement as an excuse to harass people. Let them try to take you to Court and when they have wasted some money file the defense so it gets kicked out. Apparently there are some FCA rule changes in August which mean they will have to verify a debt is valid before they can chase it (or something like that).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
there are some FCA rule changes in August which mean they will have to verify a debt is valid before they can chase it (or something like that)
Well that would be interesting. But not that I am aware of.
It is much simpler to tell Lowell now.
Tony says
Sara I actually phoned them after seeing your reply .I spoke to a young lady and said I did not expect to receive anything from Lowell as I have a letter from Robinson 2018 my account is unenforceable due to my dispute .I read the letter to her .she said Hoist are now out of business and they received all their accounts with no info about any letter on my account .She gave me the email address and I’ve attached letter with an explanation etc
Craig says
I just phoned Lowell and made a cca request was supprised when bloke said actuly there’s some statue barred stuff would I like to pay or close the account
Now next question is on ee he said times been to long to request ee for the cca so gunna send out something to show how the debt got there does that mean I can now not pay it if they can’t give the cca?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, if they say a debt is statute barred and you tell them in that case you will not be paying it, they cannot continue to demand you pay.
EE – if this is a consumer credit act debt then if they cannot produce the CCA it is unenforceable in court. Does this debt still show on your credit record? If yes, is it defaulted?
Craig says
The ee debt no longer shows on my report and Lowell said it’s to far gone to be able to ask ee for the cca so they wanna find something to show I owe the debt but I’m under impression no cca it’s unenforacble
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that is correct.
Craig says
Ok cool so when they send there evidence if not a cca I’ll stop paying it thank u
Ronnie says
I have had 3 accounts transferred to Lowell. I have been paying them via step change for about 11 years. They no longer show on my credit report. Will
Lowell re register these accounts with credit reference companies now they own the debt. I have never missed a payment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, they have dropped off because the default date on the records was over 6 years ago. Lowell has to use the original default date, not a later one.
Three things for you to consider with this long running DMP:
– are the StepChange payments affordable given the cost of living? Don’t get into debt elsewhere to be able to pay SC. Talk to SC about a reduction.
– if you have any spare money Lowell may accept A lower settlement on on a debt
– Lowell may be unable to produce the paperwork for the debts, in which case you can tell SC to stop paying them. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/
A Wallbridge says
I received a letter from Hoist saying that the debt I had with Barclaycard had been transferred to Lowell, and a letter from Lowell asking for payment.
This is in spite of the original debt being part of a Bankruptcy Order in 2017!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell Lowell this! And ask for written assurance that you will not be contacted about this in future.
I assume it doesn’t show on your credit record any more.
Steve says
Hi, I hope you can advise me on this. I had letters from hoist about a year ago for two debts that I did not recognise so I sent them a prove it letter for both of them. They supposedly investigated and wrote back a couple months later around sept/Oct last year basically saying they could not prove the debt and saying account is unenforceable and will be removed from credit file. All sorted I thought hoist never contacted me again but now as of a couple of days ago I receive 2 letters from lowell saying they have took over the accounts and are wanting me to contact them about payments. Their letters don’t have any proof of debt documents. are they just disregarding the prove it letters I already sent to when it was hoist as Lowell should already have this info, correct? . What should my next step be ? Would I have to send prove it letters again ? They have a complaint number but they want my personal details before they would talk about it even though I gave them the ref numbers on letters. I refused my details as I don’t trust them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you enail Lowell (address in article above) saying these 2 debts aren’t yours and you disputed them with Hoist last year. Attach a copy of Hoist’s reply.
Steve says
Never mind I emailed them this morning with letters attached. I did tell them not to contact me again but I have a feeling they will keep trying to fish because the automated email from them had a part about confirming my identity with name,address and dob saying it would help deal with the email quicker. Not happening, I hate having to deal with companies like these.
DonkeyKong says
It seems to me that anyone who has alleged debts from Lowell that they are sure are off-statute or have had previous acknowledgement from Hoist or other stakeholders, should make a complaint to the Financial Conduct Authority. It is clear that they are not making adequate or possibly any checks to verify the debt is within statute and/or have “prove it” evidence.
It is clear than if anyone contacts Lowell will just be encouraging them to try and collect a debt that they are not entitled to collect. People have written on other forums that they respond by still trying to collect the statute barred debt. The more people that complain to the FCA the more likely that Lowell will get a slap on the wrist and cease this disgusting behaviour.
Bill says
I just ignored these companies completely. They will get desperate and start offering you a discount on your debt in an effort to get you to contact them. I stuck to my guns – ignored them and now the debt is statute barred and they will have to accept my offer – GETTING NOT ONE PENNY FROM ME
Sara (Debt Camel) says
now the debt is statute barred and they will have to accept my offer
why would you make an offer if a debt is statute barred?
if the debt isn’t statute barred, this approach risks ending up in court with a CCJ.
Bill says
I did not contact them in anyway. My offer is in the form of completely ignoring them. These companies are blood suckers, they want to prey on people who are easy to manipulate. They will never get any contact from me, any response to their correspondence or any MONEY. NOT ONE PENNY
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, no offer.
Bill says
I didn’t mean that to sound abrupt. I was very angry with the way the credit cards companies deal with me. I cleared most of the debt on my cards, asked them to decrease the limits, which they didn’t they then increased them, and kept sending me new cards.
Anthony Spero says
Hi,response from Lowell after sending email I won’t be making any payments and asked not to be contacted again.
Good Morning.
Thank you for your email.
Responding to your query
I appreciate your comments.
I just wanted to advise, in regards to your Statue Barred account, Lowell reference number xxxx this is currently on hold being reviewed for closure.
This will be done in due course.
If you have any further questions please do not
hesitate to ask.
Brian Rose says
A recent letter from Lowell said, “We’ve reviewed the information on your credit file to get an understanding of your financial situation.” Are they allowed to check a person’s credit file?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes if they own one of your debts. What are they suggesting?
does your credit record tell the whole story?
DonkeyKong says
The Default enables them to sell your debt for 5p in the £ and lend the same amount to someone else, but your full debt remains owing, but that does not mean you need to pay it. The new debt owner will likely engage a debt collector for a fixed period, some pretend to add fees and charges, ignore them and do not engage or you will ratify those charges. Every now a then you will be sent a new series of template letters, then they will disengage the first debt collector company and assign another. They will rinse and repeat this process every now and then until the 6 years are up, they could go for a CCJ but will usually only do this if they think you have the ability to pay.
Defaulting is a serious step if your credit record matters to you, so decide that first.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There were 900,000 CCJs in 2022. It is absurd to suggest that most of these were because the creditor thought the debtor “could pay” – far more are likely to have been because the debtor took the foolish route you are suggesting and refused to engage.
DonkeyKong says
Hilarious, that you can’t respond to a fair argument and mute me, no worries, I will copy the thread and my responses.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I did reply. What you were suggesting was unhelpful and could land someone in much worse trouble.
Tony says
Hi Sara
Been in a DMP plan for some time -Step change .Originally had 10 creditors -CC and loans total 50 k.Moving on all defaults been off my Credit file for a few yrs .Four debts now with Lowell -Hoist .One statute barred ,.Have the balance with Cabot -Faifax ..Total loans is 6.Balance owing 7.5k.Would it be prudent to ask for CCA from Lowell and Cabot ..hopefully won’t be able to produce as things are really tough lost two businesses during lockdown .If they cannot produce CCA and I do not pay could I be out of the woods ?
Cheers
Tony
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes this sounds like a good point to ask for the CCA agreements. If the CCA agreement cannot be produced after a few months you can ask Stepchange to stop paying them.
But are you saying a debt in a DMP is statute barred? are you sure?
Tony says
Thanks for quick reply Sara .Sorry no that one was with SC and then payments stopped to that for several yrs and statute barred now
Steve says
Got a pointless email response today with them just requesting my name, dob and full address. Hoist never did this when I sent them a prove it letter. I have given lowell all the info they need in previous email with ref numbers ect. With hoist letters. obviously they ignored my request to not contact me again without any proof of debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you give Lowell the name, date of Birth and full address?
Steve says
No, I don’t want to give them any personal details to use as an excuse to harass me that’s why I was apprehensive about sending an email as now they seem to be wanting to harass me that way now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have thousands of debts, possibly tens of thousands, that they are having to sort out. If you want this sorted, I suggest you send your details.
Tina says
I received a text message with a ref number for lowell. Stating they had recently sent a letter. None received. I had a payment plan previously with lowell so could sign in to their portal. I have been debt free for a couple of years. Shocked when signed in and a debt for over £10k from hoist. There is no documentation available on the page. I have no idea of this debt. Have sent a complaint and SAR today to them. I am a houseowner, so this was quite alarming.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok well see what they say. A number of people are being chased for Hoist debts that weren’t theirs. Or which are very old and statute barred.
tina says
Information returned. An secured loan from 2004, which I don’t recall. A CCJ in 2006. I’m the 2nd applicant on loan but 1st applicant has my d.o.b.
I never had any contact with Hoist about this even though I’m traceable and got a mortgage in 2012 with no trace of CCJ. Where does this leave me now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A secured loan would not be statute barred. You can check the register entry at the Land registry to see if a charge is registered there.
A CCJ would also not be statute barred, but a CCJ over 6 years old would be hard for Lowell to try to enforce.
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your options. for both of these alledged debts
Mattina says
Thanks Sara, I meant to put unsecured loan. Its the CCJ that I’m more concerned of. I’ve read that they would have to apply back at court, and they have to explain the time lapse of 17yrs. Is this correct.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well that is a relief. An unsecured loan from 2004 is almost certainlt statute barred. When you talk to National Debtline about the CCJ, also menation this old loan to them as they have a template letter you can sent lowell about statute barring.
Yes a creditor has to go back to court to enforce a CCJ over 6 years old.
David Palmer says
Just another example of the stress and anxiety caused by Lowells misuse of data it acquired from HOIST, as reported on a plethora of websites and blogs. Imagine they have a database of tens of thousands of households and they have clearly not verified they are able to legitimately chase the debt.
Everyone knows that debt causes serious mental health issues and who knows what the receipt of one of these letters or SMS messages might trigger in someone who is already under profound anxiety.
Other forums quote the FCA rules that Lowells are in breach of
Complaints should be made to ICO, FCA and your MP.
John says
Hi , had a ccj since 2009 which I’m still paying monthly payments, lowell have taken over debt from hoist and are now saying ccj no longer exists because its dropped of my credit file , I’m aware of this but assumed ccj still exists even when not on credit report , lowell are now asking to set up repayment plan I have told them I will continue with ccj payment plan , am I right to do this
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this situation.
Darren says
Hi Sarah
One of my debts which was sitting with Hoist has been sold to Lowell, I had asked Hoist for the CCA and they could not provide it so I sent a copy of their letter off to Lowell when they wrote saying they now own this debt. I have had a very strange response which is below:
Thank you for your recent letter,
We have noted the content of your letter and understand you didn’t receive your CCA request documents from Hoist. We must advise Lowell would not be able to provide these documents. Your agreement with the original company provided them with the right to process your data, or pass this right to a third party, such as Lowell.
This means we’re not committing fraud by collecting the outstanding balance(s). It also means we don’t need to provide the documents that you have asked for.
On date we formally notified you that this account had been purchased and that Lowell are now the legal owner of the debt.
As the owner and data controller of this account, Lowell has the right and responsibility to report accurate and up to date information to the credit reference agencies.
We have put your account on hold for 30 days to allow time for you to get back to us. If we don’t hear from you in that time, contact will resume
I am assuming this is all rubbish and without the CCA they cannot legally do anything?
How should I respond to this?
Any help gratefully received.
Regards
Darren
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Bizarre reply – unless you accused Lowell of fraud when contacted them?
I suggest you reply that you are not accusing them of fraud, however CONC 13.1.6 says that
(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.
(3) In particular, a firm should not in such cases either threaten court action or other enforcement of the debt or imply that the debt is enforceable when it is not.
So you would like Lowell to confirm that the debt is unenforceable as they cannot produce a copy of the CCA agreement. And that you will not be making any payments to an unenforceable debt.
Darren says
Ha ha, very strange indeed, I never accused them of anything and merely stated I would not be repaying this debt until they can produce the CCA.
I will use your response and write to them again, thank you so much for your help.
Sam says
Hi,
Sorry, this is not about Hoist but it is about Lowell. I had a Vanquis credit card that I fell behind with. The debt was purchased by Lowell. I have put in an affordability complaint against Vanquis (heard nothing back yet). I am currently paying off the balance to Lowell but through Resolvecall. Should i contact Lowell to let them know I have put the complaint in. Do I complain to Lowell?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unless the repayments are unaffordable, it’s usually easier to just carry on making them.
DonkeyKong says
Normally, if you are going to pay this, I think you need to choose one party and deal with them, ideally the closer to the original debtor, but are you sure the debt was purchased or have they just been given a chance to have a crack at you. Have you received a proper default letter saying the debt has been sold. If it has indeed been sold then deal with the new owner – Lowell.
Resolvecall have extremely bad things said about them on other platforms (e.g. MSE). like saying proveit letters are not valid or that debt is still owed after statute barred and even pursuing debts after bankruptcy. When challenged Resolvecall blame their agents who they say are freelancers. Lowell are bad enough but it seems from what others say that new lows have been achieved.
If you don’t value your credit record and think you will never need a mortgage, loan or car finance, then you can choose to start the 6 year period of not paying and not acknowledging so it goes off statute. They can still seek a CCJ in last months of the 6 year period but they only seem to do that if your credit record shows activity suggesting you have money. Things like taking out an overdraft. If they see virtually no activity for 6 years the old “can’t get blood out of a stone” and “don’t throw good money after bad” approaches often kick in.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
He already has a CCJ for this debt (see comments below.) This debt will never become statute barred.
And he has made an affordability complaint to Vanquis – the sensible thing is to see where that gets and send it to the Ombudsman if necessary.
DonkeyKong says
Creditors have 6 years to pursue CCJ’s. After that they have to go back to Court and although you did not want to comment on my situation, others have and say it is extremely unlikely and so effectively becomes unrecoverable. It also falls off the credit record after 6 years or so.
The limitations Act 1980 is I believe the legislation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Limitations Act does not apply when there is a CCJ.
What you are proposing is an unwise course of action except in the unusual situation that someone has just found out about an old CCJ that they have never made payments to that is either more than 6 years old or coming up to that point.
Sam says
Yes will do, do you think I should let Lowell know I have put in a complaint. I have a CCJ because of this debt that Lowell bought.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can do but they won’t do anything. Have you told Vanquis that you want the CCJ set aside (legal term for removed)?
Sam says
I just said about removing the default markers. Should I go back to them about the CCJ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, say you want to add that to your complaint.
Tony says
Hi been with Step Change for approx 8 yrs.Three plans are with Lowell now and have asked for CCA agreement .Two are with Cabot .I asked them for CCA and this is their response
Our response to your correspondence
Thank you for your email received on 27 June 2023, regarding your CCA reques
Further to your conversation with my colleague Ellie, I wanted to clarify with you exactly what is was you were after in terms of the CCA as I understand you were made aware of a possible fee paymen
If you were simply looking for a copy of the agreement, we can process this as a document request and there is no fee chargeable for this.
If you were looking to make a formal request for all information held under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA), this requires the formal request in writing and there is a statutory fee payable of £1.00 for this
However, please note, an account will only become unenforceable after a formal CCA request has been made and we have been unable to comply with this and supply all the required documents. We will not consider the enforceability of an account without a CCA request.
If you could please confirm how you would like to proceed, and we can pass over details of how to make the fee payment should you with to pursue the formal CCA route.
Any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Hi could you please advise me on above
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them you wish to make a formal request for all information held under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA).
Sean says
Hi Sara, I had a credit card with Tesco back in 2010 the card expired in2012 with me owing £2600 I have not had any contact with them since 2012 and have since ignored any contact letters or emails from various dept collectors for years the last letters that I received were from hoist a couple of years ago trying to get me to pay a much lower sum and that would be it I of course ignored them ! I have now however started to receive letters from Lowell asking me to contact them and if I don’t that they will continue to contact me and might even send agents to my door ! The last email that I received was today the 5/7/2023 which I have ignored. I have had no contact nor replied to any letters or emails at all since 2012 would this make my dept statute barred and if so what should I do as I do not want to contact them and restart the limitation time for the statute barring
If this is the case
Thank you for any help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether they think this debt is statute barred. They have a template you can send to a creditor saying this.
Once a debt is statute barred it cannot be “unbarred” by any communication but it is good to be very sure first.
Sean says
Thank you Sara I’ll ring them and ask what they think thank you for your time.
Stephen says
Hi Sarah
Lowell have contacted me about 2 credit card debts which they have taken over from Hoist. I sent Lowell a letter template I found saying basically I do not know about this debt and please provide evidence that I am liable for these debts.
They have replied with information regarding the 2 debts both:-
default dates are september 2014.
Last payment date december 2013.
Default reg date one debt sept and the other nov 2014
Determination date march 2023
Only one of the debts has a placement start date of may 2017 (unsure as to what this actually is??)
“We are unable to request documentation on the account due to the retention period on the accounts”
I am thinking these debts are status barred, i have never acknowledged at all and from the data above seems like they defaulted in 2014. Some 8/9 years ago. Whats best course of action? Send a CCA request knowing they cannot provide the account agreements or go straight for the these debts are status barred route? Appreciate your help in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether these debts are statute barred – they have a template you can send to Lowell about this.
But you should adapt that template to say first they have not supplied you with sufficient information for you to be able to assess if these are your debts or not.
And then at the end say that if they have reason to believe that the debts are not statute barred, you would like them to confirm in writing that they are unable to produce a true copy of the CCCA agreement for the debts and so the debts are unenforceable.
Stephen says
Hi, yes i have contacted them today and they have given me a template to send to them. I will amend it to reflect what you have suggested as well. Thanks for your reply
Diane says
Hi Sara
I have just come across your website by chance and the above article re Hoist/Lowell. I would be grateful for your advice re this
I had a number of debts with Robinson which then became Hoist which have now just been been passed on to Lowell . All of these debts are credit cards and I have been paying a regular agreed small monthly amount to each debt for eight years. I have now agreed a repayment plan with Lowell for these debts. However having read some of the emails above I wanted to ask you the following
1. Although Lowell have agreed a monthly payment plan (same as Hoist) they continue to send a letter requesting a budget to be completed . I have sent this for each debt with the payment plan they have agreed so I don’t understand why they continue to ask for this.?? At this moment in time I don’t intend to keep responding to them. Any thoughts/advice?
2. In the same letter they have asked me were my source of income is coming from. I have never been asked this before and don’t believe I need to answer them. I feel all of this is just plain harassment
3. Where do I standing with Lowell in continuing to pay these debts 8 years on from the initial start of the debt. I am obviously still in a position where I can pay the minimum monthly amount, but do Lowell have any rights, do I have any rights now eight years on. I do not have any paperwork relating to the initial debts only relating to Hoist and Robinson. D
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are these debts now off your credit reports?
Diane says
Hi Sara
yes these debts are off my credit report
Can I also ask you, now that my credit rating is good again if I am offered a reduction to pay off the debt and I do this will this affect my credit score when the debt is over six years old and no longer showing on my credit score
Diane
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A partial payment will NOT reappear on your credit score (and Lowell are lying if they imply it will)
But as the debts are off your credit record, it is a good idea to first ask them to produce the CCA agrement for each of the debts. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/. If they can’t, thne there is no need to pay them anything at all. as the debts are unenforceable.
Diane says
Thank you for your reply regarding me query. can I just ask , if I send a letter to Lowell requesting a copy of the agreement, could this result in them being difficult, especially if they were able to produce a copy of this?
Kind regards
Diane
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They can’t be difficult if they cannot produce it.
If they can produce you need to make a payment arrangement to repay the debt.
Darren says
Hi there
I have received a letter from Lowell, i had never, ever, received any communication from Hoist, and the debt they are claiming (£5000) is in excess of any other debt i know of which is am fully up to date with! I have no recollection of any debt that the figure could represent in my past or has not been either paid in full (or settled via mis-selling compensation). Baffled and concerned,!! but i do share the feeling that they are just trying their luck? Nothing on my credit file relates to this, settled or in the process of being so. Whilst i understand ignoring such communication may usually not be best, however i am utterly clear in my mind this is wrong or terribly ancient (more than 15 years) so feel the onus is on them to prove it further and i have no interest in communiicating with them as it only seems to encourage them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it is up to you.
But if this is either not your debt or it is ancient and so statue barred, it should be easy to get this sorted out now. And much less stressful than dealing with solicitors and a court claim if you ignore it.
Communication doesn’t encourage them, it is the sensible way to get this sorted as soon as possible.
Benn says
Hi Sara, received a an email asking me to log into a llowel account.
I owed 2 debts, which I pretty much defaulted in 2020 so there not status barred then ignored multiple debt agencies for the past three years which stopped emailing me for the last 12 months.
I reside overseas, have no fixed abode in the uk (although at the time of taking out the unsecured loan it was registered at a uk address) and am not on the electoral register.
The debts do still show in my credit file, as defaulted account £0 balance (this maybe as they’ve sold the debt) but llowel is not listed on in my credit report.
Can they recover CCA as the debts are still listed on credit report?
Iv pretty much just ignored the debt as I live overseas now (for past three years).
Geussing the letters are being sent to the listed address in the uk but haven’t lived there for about 6 years.
What would you advise in this situation.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you think you will ever return to the UK?
Benn says
Not for the next 5 years minimum..
But I suppose they could hit me with a ccj but I suspect they haven’t got a copy of the CCA as there was multiple attempts from different agency’s that eventually gave up.
The fact Iv no fixed abode and not on the electoral register I’m a bit of a hard collection.
I checked on clear score also, and one of the debts (a loan) is showing as closed and at £0 we’re the other is still in default.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Whether they can produce the CCA agreement has nothing to do with whether it is still on your credit record. And they don’t have to have the CCA before they apply to the court for a CCJ, unless you have asked them to produce the CCA, in which case the debt is unenforceable and they cannot start a court case unless they can produce it.
You could talk to National Debtline about your options, see the phone number from abroad here https://nationaldebtline.org/contact-us/
David Palmer says
@Benn
You say they defaulted in 2020 and describe usual behaviour of the debt being passed about for different agencies attempting collection, all normal. Now you are off radar because you are abroad but any UK credit activity will likely trigger an alert if they paid for one (which they routinely do).
It is a bit early to assume they can’t recover the CCA, if the debt were 6 years you might expect that.
They can still use the last known address to obtain a CCJ, they will likely make a decision in the final six months of the no activity window. Part of this is any activity on your credit record, for example if you take out a mobile phone contract or have an overdraft authorised. The decision criteria will vary from firm to firm.
I am led to believe from other forums that checking your credit record is part of the activity they look for and they all share such activity, if you want to see if you have a CCJ you can use trustonline website
You don’t seem to have any intention to pay or service the debt, but it is still worth contacting National Debtline et al, for example you might meet the criteria for a DRO which would cost £90 and leave you debtfree in a year, but speak them so you really understand the implications of that particular debt solution.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should never assume a CCA cannot be recovered. And it is possible that the debt has already been sold without the right to access this.
It is a myth that a debt collector can see if you have checked your credit score.
David Palmer says
@Diane
It does not matter that is 8 years on from the initial start of the debt, you might be confusing this with 6 years from not servicing or acknowledging the debt. In plain English, if you make a payment towards a debt you acknowledge it, if you respond to a query about the debt and say “I can’t afford to make any payments right now” then you acknowledge the debt. So if you have agreed a monthly payment plan (1) you have acknowledged the debt.
I am not one for providing them with information such as source of income (2) , that sort of thing is best done via one of the three debt charities and only if you enter into some sort of arrangement via them. Sara quotes one of them for you, give them a call and talk through your options, some people prefer to speak anonymously at first until they have heard the full menu of options, or they give a false name.
It does not matter that you do not have any paperwork (3) what matters is whether HOIST have the CCA, so it would always be a good idea to ask for the CCA, there is a link in the article above for template letter.
Diane you sound as if you are really struggling, you might find it helpful to join the MSE forum and checkout the debtfree wannabe section, it is a non-judgemental place where you can talk through your options (without giving any personal details of yourself).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have no idea why you would not say what your source of income is. Not reloading makes it sound as though you have something to hide. For most people it is better to be straightforward about your situation
Tony says
Hi Sara took your advice by asking for CCA from Lowell and Cabot.In a DMP since 2012 ,have 6.5k outstanding out of 45k.Was rather startled when Cabot asked me to pay £1.00 and 3 weeks later produced CCA from 2002.Lowell not asked for payment and put my 3 accounts on hold at moment..
Karen says
Hi Sara, I have asked Lowell for CCA on two accounts that transferred from Hoist to Lowell. I have just received a letter for one of the accounts. Lowell have sent:-
Our findings are outlined below:-
1. We are writing to you regarding your contact when you requested copies of the transactional data. statements and original agreement.
2. A review of our records shows that this account was opened on the 03/09-1999 and defaulted 01.03.2011.
3. Please note that due to the retention period of requesting documents, we are unable to obtain copies of the statement and original agreement.
4. The terms and conditions will have been provided at the time of the application.
5, The last payment made to our client was 13.02.2023
6. Payments have been made to Lowell with the last one being confirmed on the 12/07/2023.
Based on the information provided, we consider the balance to be valid and owing.
What happens next?
We’re aware that you have a repayment plan on your account and we’ll expect your payments to continue as usual, unless you advise us otherwise.
Is this a new lowell tactic to say that they cannot produce the CCA but expect me to keep paying because I would have received the agreement at the time I opened the account>
Am I alright to send them a letter to say that they have not produced the CCA, this debt in unenforceable and and I am not longer paying this?
Many thanks and sorry for the long post
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply and ask them t9 confirm that this debt in unenforceable as they cannot produce the CCA agreement.
Kaz says
Update. After the convoluted reply I wrote and complained about the letter stating it was unenforceable. They closed that account. The second one I asked for cca the same time as the other one. I had a letter in April saying they requested the CCA. I chased in August where they sent me a letter again saying they would request the CCA. Bit annoying as they had already requested it in April. Anyway, I received a letter last week saying that account was closed too.
Thank you Sara. It was a bit of a journey but both accounts moved from Hoist to Lowell now closed
Sara (Debt Camel) says
got there in the end!
And this is why it is worth pursuing the point. You could just have sat back and tried to ignore communications from Lowell until they move to court action – but that is so much more stressful than forcing them to admit the debts are unenforceable now and closing the accounts.
Daniel says
Hi Sara
My debt with Hoist was statue barred 2 months ago. They used to send me the letters, but I mever responded. Now Lowell started chasing me this year and ignored them as I knew it will off my file in April. Now I am confused, debt is no more on my credit file but Lowell is still sending me letters and last week they did a hard search on my credit file
with transunion. How can they do a hard search on a statue barred debt ?
Is it because the debt amount is too high around £22000 and now even its statue barred they will still try to get it. I mean they could go for CCJ if they wanted to but…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this debt. They have a template letter you can send to Lowell if it seems likely the debt is statute barred.
Daniel says
I will do that but is it possible for them to do hard search on my credit file for a statue barred debt ?
Because it seems they can continue to damage my credit history with hard searches for debt collection. Basically they can so this every month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have no idea if they think this is a statute barred debt. That is what matters here. Concentrate on the important things.
David Palmer says
@Daniel
If you are sure that the debt is Statute barred, especially check the date of default (if applicable) and see MSE post on Case law, this may be after you last payment, but assuming it is definitely statute barred, then I would be contacting Transunion and asking them to remove those hard searches and threatening them with the FCA. Start by raising a query or complaint at the link below.
https://www.transunion.co.uk/consumer/consumer-enquiries
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have suggested he talks to National Debtline about whether the debt is statute barred. If it is, then telling lowell this is the next step.
TransUnion will just refer any complaint to Lowell.
Daniel says
Hi Daniel
Yes I am 100% sure I have been regularly checking my credit files with all 3 reference agencies for almost an year now. I stopped making payments since September 2016 and the default appeared on 7th April 2017 and absolutely I never reply to any of their letters. I had no means to pay this much amount. Thats why stopped the payments and all these years I was first waiting for any court papers to appear at my door. But they never went to court and as soon as I saw this one going off my credit reports. I was relieved but now with this hard search I am worried. As I had more debt with others which fell off my credit file between February and May this year. If all of them start registering hard searches on my credit file it will again ruin my score.
To be honest I am still reluctant to contact them as it was helpful in my case, no contact, all these years.
I have raised a dispute with trans union about this lets see what they come back with after 28 days.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/statute-barred-debts-ew/ and the section When does the limitation period start running?
A default appearing on your credit record is not the same as a Default Notice being sent to you. This is why I do not give an opinion as to whether a debt is statute barred and why I have suggested you contact National Debtline. It is up to you whether you wish to do this or decide to make an complaint to Transunion which I suggest will get you nowhere.
I won’t be publishing any further comments on this thread.
Tony says
Hi Sara
Lowell have put my 3 accounts on hold when I asked them to produce my CCA,said they have passed my request on to previous creditor .Same as Wescot also put on hold but adked me to pay £1.U lLowell have not asked .Beung with StepChange is it advisable to tell them these accounts are on hold and do not pay them ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I always suggest you wait a few months before stopping payment.
If Lowell haven’t got back to you within that time, ask them to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable.
Tony says
Thanks Sara
David Palmer says
I would stop payments until they prove it, why give away free money. If they have had time to produce you make it in their interest to delay if you pay them. Drop them a line and say you have ceased payments until they can provide the CCA. If you have free money to give away there are many charities that deserve it more than Lowell.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
because it is a hassle to get StepChange to stop payments. And they may well need to be reinstated in a month or two.
IainHL says
Hello Sara,
My partner received a letter from Lowell in May concerning an alleged debt purchased from Hoist (originally a Welcome Finance account). As she had not made any payment for well over six years (and had received a default notice from Welcome many year ago) she sent Lowell the National Debtline statue barred letter. This was towards the end of May.
To date she has not received any response from Lowell. When do you think she should chase Lowell for a response for them to confirm it is statue barred and they will not contact her again?
Thanks
Iain
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have had this for more than a month – I think she can chase Lowell now.
Stephen says
Lowell success… had a letter through today confirming they have closed two accounts and will not be hassling me again… power to the people. These accounts were status barred, sent the template and its worked. Thanks for your help 😬
David Palmer says
Well Done Stephen!
and Well Done Sara too!
Chris says
Hi all my debt has been sent from hoist to Lowell I called Lowell saying this debt is statued barred as it’s over 6 years old but they said normally it would be but a payment of £2.43 was made in august 2022 which I said I made no payment I checked both bank accounts for the dates and no payment by my self has been paid they said they will need to investigate however I spoke to them and said they can see the payment so I’ve asked for the details which they still haven’t given to me today they sent me a reminder of the debt but nothing regarding my query I know I wouldn’t have made a payment of that amount I would pay at least £5 plus if not more so the only think I can think of is I made a payment settlement with a different debt with hoist and they have transferred a little over to stop it being statued barred
What can I do any help would be great
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Interesting. The FCA’s new Consumer Duty came into force yesterday (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/fca-consumer-duty/) and the FCA has identified that statute barred debts are an area which debt purchasers sometimes do not handle well.
There are some points you can make to Lowell about this, but first can you say more about the background.
What sort of debt is it? When did you last make a payments to it? When was a default added to your credit record for this?
Chris says
The debt was a Halifax overdraft and is no longer on my credit file no payments from my self has been made at all.. it’s been over 6 years
but they are stating that a payment of £2.43 was made in august 2022 but I’ve gone through my accounts and I can’t see a payment of £2.43 being paid and I wouldn’t make a payment of that amount so they are saying as that payment has been made so that’s why it’s not statued barred but I didn’t make a payment so it should be
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long over 6 years? would it already have been past six years at the time they allege this small payment?
Chris says
The 6 years would roughly be March/April this year I think it defaulted March 2017 but I can’t find it on my credit file to be sure
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so the date was not already likely to be statute barred at the time of this phantom payment. That rules that out as an argument.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you need to object to this phantom payment and you want Lowell to agree that the debt is statute barred.
One approach is just to send Lowell a Subject Access Request (SAR) by emailing DPO@lowellgroup.co.uk and asking for all the personal information they have about you including phone recordings. The problem with this is first that it will take several weeks and second you end up with half a ton of paperwork to go through and then you have to make a complaint. So it’s a lot of work.
I suggest as an alternative sending Lowell a complaint. As they don’t seem to have a complaints email address on their website (unless you can see one when you are logged in?) send this to ashley.wynn@lowellgroup.co.uk which is the name for complaints Lowell give on the FCA register.
—————————————————————————————————————-
Put COMPLAINT ABOUT STATUTE BARRED DEBT as the title of the email.
Give your name and any Hoist or Lowell reference numbers you have for this debt.
Explain the story so far – that this is a debt transferred from Hoist, you have not made any payments to the debt for more than 6 years and that you consider it is statute barred, but Lowell told you on the phone that it normally would be statute barred but a payment of £2.43 was made in august 2022.
Say that you did not make a payment to Hoist of £2.43 in that month and you have confirmed this by looking at your bank statements. You have told Lowell this and asked for further details about this alleged payment, but so far you have not been sent anything. However on 01/08/23 you were sent a reminder of the debt [by email? Text?] with no reference to your dispute.
[the above can be in your own words. You may want to just copy the bits below]
I now understand that the FCA letter “Implementing the Consumer Duty for Debt Purchasing, Debt Collecting and Debt Administration Services (“DPCA”) portfolio” dated 21/03/23 made some specific references to statute barred debt. It said that:
“some firms are still sending misleading communications to customers in relation to statute barred debts”
and
“Incorrect application of non-payment transactions: Our review highlighted non-payment transactions (for example, credits from the original creditor or balance adjustments) were not always correctly identified, leading internal systems to identify them as ‘causes of action’ and re-setting the limitation period for a debt.”
and
“Customer information requests: The review identified that information that customers had requested is not consistently delivered to them within reasonable timescales.”
It may be that the mystery payment is a case of a non-payment transaction, I do not know. But I did not make it and so far Lowell have failed to produce any evidence that I did and appear to be ignoring my request for this.
I am complaining that this is not treating me fairly and that it is a breach of the Consumer Duty. I would like you to confirm that you will treat the debt as statute barred.
I will not be making any payments to a statute barred debt, so also please also confirm that you will not continue to ask me to pay this.
———————————————————-
Any queries?
You could also send in a SAR request at the same time, so that if this has to go to the Financial Ombudsman you have more evidence about what Lowell know. there is no need to mention the SAR request in your complaint – it needs to be handled by a different department and mixing the two things doesn’t usually work well.
———————
The FCA letter is published here https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/correspondence/consumer-duty-portfolio-letter-dpca.pdf
Chris says
Hi I’ve had a response from Lowell complaints but don’t know what I can do now here is there response any help would be appreciated
My understanding of your complaint
You are unhappy because we hold a former Lloyds Banking Group PLC – Halifax debt in your name but you consider it should be statute barred, as 6 years has elapsed. We have told you that a payment of £2.43 was made on 19 August 2021 but you have checked your bank accounts and you have not made the payment and you have not authorised the payment. You therefore consider something has been done by Hoist to stop the debt being statute barred.
Findings
At Lowell we take all complaints seriously and every effort is made to ensure that a thorough investigation is undertaken and the right outcome reached. Lowell reference
Original debt owners
When we received your complaint, we raised a query with Lloyd Banking Group PLC and they have now responded. They have told us that the payment of £2.43 was received by them on 18 August 2021, via an online payment service provider called Stichting Custodia. The payment came through as a standing order, but they do not hold any details of the bank account the payment was made from.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, so before you said August 2022. Now it is August 21? Have you also checked your bank statements for August 21?
Chris says
Yes didn’t come from my bank they said the payment came from Stichting Custodia who ever they are it went into Halifax and instead of it bouncing back because the Account was closed and with hoist they transferred the payment to hoist but I had no knowledge of this payment and why it was sent to Halifax
David Palmer says
I think they would struggle to say or prove that you made the payment.
I think you have to strenuously deny ever making the payment and say you have never used the alleged company nor heard of them.
I would suggest you get copies of your bank statement for the period concerned as suggested by Sara, but also do two Subject Access Requests, one from LLoyds Banking Group PLC requesting the alleged document and another from this Stichting Custodia organisation after Lloyds have responded..
If Lloyds/Lowell can’t provide the evidence of the alleged payment ask them for Stichting Custodia reference number and the account it was bank account it was paid to etc so you have something to go to Stichting Custodia with.
It is good that you bring this to public attention so if it is a widespread practice we can determine that.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so what did the Lowell reply actually say in answer to your complaint? Did they say they consider the debt is not statute barred?
did they say you had the right to take your complaint to the Ombudsman?
Chris says
They said for the payment received they would class it as not statued barred
Yes they did say I can take it to them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So your options are:
TO set up a payment arrangement for this debt (How large is the balance? what are your finances like?)
OR or to push back asserting that you did not make or authorise this payment to the old account so it does not constitute acknowledging the debt which is now statute barred.
Laura says
Hi Sara,
I have been paying Lowell monthly and have £2000 left to pay on the account, the original default was with Barclays in jan 18. If I am unable to pay off £2000 before jan 24 when the default drops off, will lenders for a mortgage see that as a negative that I am continuing to pay a debt collection company even though the default has dropped off?. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes. A mortgage company sees this as a debt your are repaying – the fact it is no longer on your credit record is irrelevant. it is still a defaulted debt.
One option to consider is making a partial settlement offer. You may be able to settle this now for a lower amount eg £1000. The debt will still drop off in Jan 24 and then the a mortgage lender will never know about it – well except for Barclays of course. You should cross them off your list of possible mortgage lenders as they will always be able to see the default from their own records.
Mike says
Hi Sara
What would happen if Laura asked Lowell for the CCA documentation and they could not provide it?
Assuming the debt could no longer be chased and she stopped paying it, would it affect the credit record or Laura’s ability to obtain a mortgage and would the mortgage lender also never know about it (assuming not Barclays)?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If Lowell cannot produce the CCA agreement (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/) and she stops paying the debt will still drop off in January and be invisible to other mortgage lenders. The problems with going this route is it may not work and it can also take some time – many people who are hoping for a mortgage application next year would prefer the certainty of a partial settlement as soon as possible.
Tony says
Hi Sara I’m still waiting for my CCA agreements from Lowell requested on 6/07/23. I received a CCA from Cabot tnough and having another look at it closely on top it says please complete this application form correctly from RBS,I had filled in balance transfers amount on it .Tick in the box card I was applying for .Just wanted to know if this is a CCA agreement ,this is 2002.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That does NOT sound like a CCA agreement. You aren’t disputing that you applied for the the card, you want a copy of the agreement.
Tony says
IHii Sara an update .After complaining ?just received an email with a password protected letter stating cannot find CCA therefore debt unenforceable etc .Good result
David Palmer says
CRACKING RESULT TONY
Nice one Sara!
Tony says
Thanks Sara,obviously the CCA could show up at Amy time as you have indicated .I will have to be mindful of that .
Thanks again for all your wisdom
Janet says
Hi Sara
Just after some clarification on three credit card debts from 1998/2000/2003 that were sold to Idem then Hoist and now Lowell. I have always kept up agreed monthly payments until sold to Lowell. I was not informed they had been sold to them and was unable to make payment to hoist as my account was no longer accessible. I actually thought they had been written off as they are old debts. About a month later a received correspondence from Lowell to set up payments with them. I checked your blog and read about CCA’s and if they could not be provided were not enforceable. I emailed requesting copies and if provided would contact them to set up a payment plan in June. I have just received a reply stating because of the age of these, they are unable to obtain copies, however because I had made payments to Hoist and they were able to provide dates of when each was sold on, they consider the balances to be valid and owing. They have given me 30 days to review this information and will get back to me if I have not responded. If I have been making payments does this prove I owe this debt and will need to carry on paying even without being provided CCA’s. Also no mention In their letter to say not enforceable, and just to mention these defaulted from my credit file a few years ago.
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply saying that you are not disputing that the balances are valid and owing but ask Lowell to confirm that these 3 debts are not enforceable as Lowell cannot produce the CCA agreement. Say that CONC 13.1.6 says that
“(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.”
Add that as the debts are unenforceable you will not be making any payments to an unenforceable debt.
Janet says
Thank you so much for your prompt reply, and clarification. I will certainly be responding to Lowell with your suggestions. Much appreciated.
Janet says
Hi Sara, I have received the following response from Lowell, I’d appreciate your feedback on this please.
“ I have reviewed all three accounts and I can see the letters that were issued to you. I appreciate that we are unable to provide the requested CCA’s, however the debts are valid and owing and would remain enforceable until they are paid.
We are happy to work with you and set up an affordable repayment plan going forward.
Please advise on how you wish to proceed moving forward?”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you email a complaint to support@lowellgroup.co.uk and cc it to ashley.wynn@lowellgroup.co.uk with “COMPLAINT re unenforceable debt” as the title
Saying (you can put this into your own words and add any other dates etc) :
I sent you requests to produce the CCA agreements for my debts in mmm/23.
You have told me that you cannot produce the CCA agreements for them “however the debts are valid and owing and would remain enforceable until they are paid”.
This is misleading. Can you please confirm that these debts are unenforceable in court as you cannot produce the CCA agreement. I draw your attention to CONC 13.1.6 which says that:
“(1) Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.
(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.”
If I have to send this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman I will be asking for compensation for poor customer complaint handling and treatment.
David Palmer says
Superb Reply Sara
This is why reporting to the FSA is an important option, how can this be in the interest of the customer, notwithstanding an out and out lie.
Daniel says
Hi. Lowell have sent me a couple of email and I missed a call today. The emails I don’t think give much about the debt. All debts on my credit file have dropped off as they would have been over 6 years so statue barred. I don’t remember having letters sent out in the post.
How to I respond. Should I reply to the email and If so, how should I respond please? If there’s a reference code, can I send a certain letter out. If so, could you give me a sample of what to send out, as I believe any old dents are now barred.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you don’t know what debt this refers to?
Has it been more than 6 years since you made any payments to this debt, whatever it is?
Daniel says
I will look at the email again as I don’t think it gives reference to the amount etc but I know it will definitely be over 6 years old. I haven’t responded to any debt or acknowledge that any debt is mine
Daniel says
It appears after just checking the emails, they were all sent on the 23rd of August with three different accounts all of a sudden. From aqua, and two I think from shop direct, with 3 different amounts of the debt with three different reference numbers. I guessing these debts have been sold on. They’re definitely no longer on any of my credit files as I check them all and they fell of ages ago. I haven’t had a letter for each one from Lowell. They’ve just sent out emails with their attached letter instead of in the post.
Do I reply with a template that these debts are statue barred via email or do I find their address and include the reference numbers etc for each account?
If so would you be able to post a template I can use please as I know normally, you have to send a letter in the post. Is there also a way to email them back with the same process like sending out a letter please.
I appreciate your help and time.
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk this through with National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. They have a template saying your debts are statute barred. It can be sent by email or post.
Tony says
Hi Sara regarding my request for 3 CCA from Lowell and 2 from Cabot ,been acknowledged that accounts are on hold .It’s approx 60 days since request .My StepChange payment went out today .I want to now stop paying the creditors .I was wondering how to approach Step Change to stop paying them from next month .I dont see anything about CCA being unenforceable on their site. Perhaps I should just cancel my direct debit ? I know Sod’s law can show its ugly head and CCA could appear but hopefully not .
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are these the only 5 remaining debts in your DMP?
Tony says
Yes correct,,been paying since 2012.Had 10 creditors originally .Total amount owing £5.700 from £42,000…been a long hard road.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you can just tell StepChange you want to end your DMP as the creditors haven’t been able to produce the CCA agreements. Then set up a payment arrangement for any debt that pops up with the CCA.
Tony says
Thanks Sara will do that .I’m sure they will be on my case after a few missed payments but know what to say based on all the info you have provided which is gold dust .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh I would tell Lowell and Cabot now that you won’t be making any payments while the debts remain unenforceable.
Anthony Spero says
Yes ,thanks
Tony says
Hi an update .I contacted StepChange spoke to a very polite person and explained I want to shut down my DMP of 12 yrs based on lowelll and Cabot -5 debts in total not being able to produce CCA after approx 2months and mentioned having letters saying account on hold and unenforceable etc.The chap said he was not familiar with the CCA strategy ,StepChange had not briefed the call handlers on this issue .He thought it be a bad strategy as I’ve been paying this debt for a long while and that would be questioned etc but said he would speak to a senior person on this matter .He came back after 10 min and said he thought I should not cancel and give it more time .He did say SC give you 3months to reinstate plan after that they treat you as a new customer and start process again .I thought it through and thought if the CCA does not appear In 3
months that’s 5 months in total then perhaps one can assume it won’t show .So my plan is now disabled and SC will write to creditors on tbis matter .It’s quite uncomfortable feeling but on my assessment worth the risk and possibly in a few months time could offer an ex gratia payment to end it completely .If CCA appears then it’s start again .Hope this is helpful to others who want to do this
David Palmer says
Why on earth would you pay a penny to a debt that cannot be enforced, if you want to throw money way throw it at the charities themselves just stop paying NOW!
Tony says
Well I have it a 60 day period as Sara recommended just in case etc.However I’m aware of Sod’s law and they produce it
David Palmer says
Tony says “Well I have it a 60 day period as Sara recommended just in case etc.However I’m aware of Sod’s law and they produce it”
I have heard of Sods law but if that happens then it happens but “cross that bridge when you get to it” might apply here. Put the money in a savings account if that makes you feel safer. Then when the time is up you can decide.
Kepp says
Hello just looking for some advice,
Have recently been contacted regarding a very old debt, one I’d forgotten about as it was over 12 years ago.
The last contact I had regarding this debt was an email in 2017 – I’ve just had to search through an old account using different debt collection names as it has evidently been passed along to Lowells now.
I haven’t acknowledged the debt, and refused to acknowledge it when I spoke to them (as I wasn’t aware of it at this point) and hadn’t had any contact, letters etc. prior to this.
Am I correct in thinking this is unenforceable?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What happened in 2017?
Kepp says
Nothing, it wasn’t coming through to my main inbox at the time and I’ve been using another email address for several years so this one is now just receiving a lot of spam and scammy emails.
I only found an email from them by hunting for it, I can’t see I’ve ever responded either.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000. If they think it’s statute barred, they have a template letter that you can send Lowell to say this.
David Palmer says
@Kepp
Sara is spot on to use them to verify, in their DebtFreeWannabe the Money Saving Expert refer to case law that says the 6 years can count from the date of default IF the agreement had certain terms. I seriously doubt it did not default if it has been 12 years. See comments above for the alternate or joint route of asking for CCA agreement of the alleged debt.
You might also find it interesting to read Sara’s page on FCA consumer duty which came in on 31st July 2023, in my humble opinion, anybody who gets chased by Lowell for a debt that they fail on CCA or is Statute barred should report Lowell to the FCA on the basis that they are not acting in the best interest of their retail customers as not having to pay anything is clearly a better outcome than being chased for a debt that they cannot legally enforce.
The more people that report Lowell the sooner this shoddy practice stops, my argument is that they should have a duty of care to first check they have the CCA and so can pursue it and secondly check it is not Statute Barred.
Debt causes all manner of mental health problems, chasing debt that cannot be legally enforced just increases stress and anxiety at a time when people are already struggling with the impact of the cost of living crisis.
https://debtcamel.co.uk/fca-consumer-duty/
John says
Hello,
I have a CCJ which I’ve ignored back from 2019. Lowell have now purchased the debt as part of this sale from Hoist.
Assuming I don’t get an Attachment of Earnings order in the next 24 months, and the debt drops off my credit file, is there realistically any chance a court will order this debt to be settled again in future? I understand on paper it remains but will a court likely get involved?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think the point to think about this is when it has got to the six year mark. That is 2 long years away…
John says
Assuming that in 24 months time the situation was the same, what chance does Lowell or any debt company have in further court action?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That partly depends on what happens in the next two years. Really this is a pointless conversation to have. Also I don’t see enough of these cases to be able to estimate chances – you would have to talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
David Palmer says
John
Sara is right, it is a pointless conversation until past 6 years, I tried to explore your options but was too verbose.
It comes down to why do you care?
If you have something to lose you will reach a debt settlement.
If you have nothing to lose then you will get a DRO or Bankrupcy
Do you think there is a reason that nobody is saying on any forum their CCJ was extended?
Hope this helps.
Peter Z says
Hi there
I am sharing my experience for others that may be hearing from Lowell and wondering what comes next. I got a letter from Lowell around the time they took over Hoist, I Ignored them because the debt is well past Statute but I thought I ought to check with a credit ref DB and I plan to do a check with those Registry Trust people to see if there was a CCJ obtained (not that I heard about it).
Then today they started the very familiar automated series of letters, the first one is the “you need to contact us or we will do blah blah blah” including emailing me and calling me (they don’t have my number), they even said they might pass it to third parties!! Hilarious!
Before following the excellent advice for which I must thank you, I thought I would let it run and see where they go with it. I am 99.89% certain it has gone off statute because I stopped paying for it sometime around 2014 I think, maybe as early as 2012. I will share the auto-responder cycle when it loops back to the first letter and then will follow the advice above once I have made sure no CCJ.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Lowell haven’t said there is a CCJ, I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 – they have a template to say a debt is statute barred which you can send to Lowell.
Peter Z says
That is true but they did not mention a CCJ on another debt where there was one, it probably has more to do with incompetence than some devious plan.
Reading your site and other debt forums, it seems they have an uncomfortable relationship with the truth and just want to establish contact so they can figure out a way to apply pressure. Thanks for the referral to National Debtline, I will give them a call, I did try to speak to Stepchange years ago but I found then to be very judgmental.
I always like to work from an informed position, I was not even aware of the other CCJ and it had passed 4 years when I found out about it, so I decided to just wait it out. I want to be absolutely sure I have no debts they can legitimately chase before i have any contact.
Thanks Sara for producing this wonderful website, it is like discovering a free Michelin rated restaurant in the middle of the desert, I am going to visit it daily as there is so much information.
Dan says
I had 3 emails sent on the 23rd of August with three different accounts all from Lowell, as Lowell have taken over these old debts. from aqua, and two from shop direct, with 3 different amounts of the debt with three different reference numbers. They’re definitely no longer on any of my credit files as I check them all and they fell of ages ago. The debts are way over 6 years, so definitely statue barred. I haven’t been in contact with any of the companies. Can I email Lowell back for each debt with the individual reference numbers, with a statue barred letter as the debts are unenforceable.
Or is there a different letter I send out please? I haven’t had any other contact from then, since that day and there’s definitely not been any letters sent out from Lowell.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about these debts. They have a statute barred template to email if it seems likely they are statute barred. I don’t see why you shouldn’t send one email with all the debt details but ask National Debtline.
If for some reason the debts areent likely to be statute barred, you could instead ask Lowell to produce the CCA agreement for each of the debts. But statute barring is simpler if it applies.
Daniel says
They are definitely barred. I had a similar company chasing me that had one of my old debts sold on to a new company and I sent them a statue barred letter. After that they sent me a letter back, that they wouldn’t contact me again, so that was closed. I haven’t heard from Lowell since they sent that group email in one. Should I wait to see if they send a letter or another email as it seems they were sending out a bunch of emails or letters to all the new debts that were sold on to them. Does anyone else have any updates on Lowell with this method as I haven’t heard back from them since they emailed back on the the 23rd of August. No letters at all, just the original email, no calls either. Do I send a CCA request or statue barred letter again as I know the debts are way over 6 years old
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My preference is to try to get things sorted. These debts are not going to disappear.
Do I send a CCA request or statue barred letter again as I know the debts are way over 6 years old
This is up to you but if they debts are statute barred it is normally simpler to try that first. Do talk to National debtline.
Tony says
Hi Sara
Just received this from westcot who administer on behalf of Cabot .Should I now contact Cabot?
Client: Cabot Financial Europe Ltd – RBS
Further to your recent CCA request regarding this account.
Cabot have confirmed that as they haven’t been able to comply with your CCA request, they are requesting the account to be returned to them.
I’ve returned the account to them, meaning that Wescot are no longer dealing with this account.
Should you have any further questions, please contact them directly. Their telephone number is 0345 070 2615, and their postal address is:
Cabot Financial Europe Ltd
1 Kings Hill Avenue
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry I missed this comment.
I suggest you wait until you are contacted by Cabot. Do NOT start the CCA process againt – Westcot have told you that Cabot are asking the creditor for the agreement.
Tony says
Thanks no prob .In fact Cabot txt me and asked me to call them yesterday regarding another loan which they have not complied regarding CCA as mentioned In previous post .Seems Cabot having a different approach than previous Lowell debts .Phoned them up and spoke to a woman there who was quite firm and tough.,saying they received a letter from StepChange saying they are no longer dealing with them .She said how much can I afford to pay per month .I told her I sent emails confirming I am not making any more payments for a debt that is Unenforcable..She said I still owe the money and the o my thing they cannot take me to court .I said not going to make any further payments ,and possibly I am prepared to make a token goodwill payment but nowhere near what I owe .She said Can consider that but need to do a income and expenditure with me now .I said sorry not prepared to do that and have to go now and call was ended Not sure if I should call them and make N offer of 10% of the two outstanding debts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is up to you. Do you have that much money spare? Or would it be better paid off some other debts that are enfoceable or where interest is being charged?
Every email or letter from them asking you to make a payment arrangement should state that the debt is unenforceable.
If you get too many texts you can ask that they only communicate by email or letter.
Tony says
Thanks Sara ,point taken
Niki says
Hi i was origionally paying hoist £5 month for a joint overdraft and had no issues. Its now with Lowell and are now chasing my husband to also pay his debt. When i origionally had the debt over 15 years ago this was set this up in my name only and not my partner as i explained i will be liable for it and not him and they were happy with this .. In all this time they never contacted my husband once and as i said its over 15 years.. Now lowell are chasing him after all this time and has registered a debt agains his credit.. As i am paying the debt why are they now chasing him, surley after all this time with no contact or any knowledge that he was liable to pay have they breached GDPR? In now chasing him… As its a joint account and 1 person is paying the have they broken code of conduct by obtaining his details and sending threatening emails, letters
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does this debt show on your credit record?
Diane says
Hi Sara,
My last contact with you was 16th July 2023. I have as suggested sent letters to Lowell requesting a copy of my CCA. I have received a response saying they have will not contact me regarding the outstanding balance, and to continue paying the monthly amount via standing order and they will contact their client for this information. Is this the usual response, having purchased this debt form Hoist wouldn’t they have also purchased the CCA?
Kind regards
Diane
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have received a response saying they have will not contact me regarding the outstanding balance, and to continue paying the monthly amount via standing order and they will contact their client for this information.
That seems a bit confused.
Did Lowell use the term “client”?
Could you copy out exactly what Lowell have said.
Diane says
Hi Sara
This is what Lowell have written date of letter 13/9/23
‘You have requested documents under sections 77/78 under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for this former HSBC account. We have asked HSBC to provide us with the requested documentation and will send this to you as soon as possible. We aim to provide you with this within 12 working days. In the meantime the account is on hold and we will not contact you to request payment. If we have not heard anything from HSBC after 40 days we will send you an update. Note my SO is still set up and paying my monthly amount
I have also received this form CSL
We write further to your letter dated 20/9/23 from which your comments have been noted . Our client has advised that the copy Credit Agreement is unavailable and therefore, we have enclosed your cheque for the sum of £1.00. We enclose a copy of Statement Account confirming all payments made since September 17th 2015. We would like to take this opportunity to review your circumstances and would kindly ask you to complete the enclosed income and expenditure and return to us at the above address. We look forward to hearing form you.
NOTE I also have a monthly SO in place and the monthly payments are ongoing.
I would be grateful if you could advise way forward re both of these
Kind regards Diane
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of debts were each of these?
Diane says
HSBC is with Lowell and that would have been a credit card and a bank loan
CSL is a credit card
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, I just wanted to check neither of the debts was an overdraft, in which case the CCA agreement is not relevant.
Lowell – I always suggest waiting 2 or 3 months before stopping payment in this situation. The CCA agreement may well be produced. But you can stop the Standing Order now if you want and then set it up again in a few weeks if necessary.
CSL – go back to them and ask them to confirm that the debt is currently unenforceable as they are unable to produce the CCA agreement. remind them that CONC 13.1.6 (2) says “(2) In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement”.
Diane says
Thank you Sara, I will do as advised re CSL and will continue to pay the SO to Lowell for the moment. I will review this situation in the middle of December a(approx three months from their letter, nd then if no CCA agreement has been produced will stop the SO.
Kind regards
Diane
Diane says
Hi Sara
This morning U have received two replies
And this is what they have written
We write further to your request for account documentation under section77/78 of thee Consumer Credit Act 1974. Unfortunately the original creditor has confirmed that they are currently unable to comply with your request within the 12 day initial time frame. Although the account is currently unenforceable the outstanding balance remains collectable and it is acceptable for creditors to register and continue reporting the reporting of a default
And other response states
Further to your recent communication. We acknowledge receipt of your letter requesting a copy of your agreement and can confirm that we have requested the relevant documentation form our client and will forward to you when it is received. We must also stress that we are not seeking to enforce an agreement and have only asked that a payment is made towards the debt that is outstanding by way of an affordable. This request is asked to minimise potential costs and delays repayment plan. However, if you believe we are unable to ask that your account is repaid in this manner please provide us with specific details so our client can address any specific concerns you may have.
Please can you advise
Kind regards
Diane
Sara (Debt Camel) says
those were from CSL?
Diane says
No
The first response from Link and the second response Moorcroft
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK you are making a lot of requests to different debt collectors and it gets confusing.
When you post about one, can you start by saying which the debt collector is and what has happened so far with that debt collector.
Link – that sounds standard. Are you currently paying them?
Moorcroft – it sounds like you arent paying them at the moment? In that case you can say you will wait to see if they can produce the agreement.