Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t and the lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
David says
I have recntly been successful in getting a refund from direct from Newday (aqua and marbles cards) to the tune of £4.5k. However, i kerp getting fobbed off over when it will arrive in my account. Originally told 3-5 days, then was told that it should have been 7-10 days, which has since passed, and now been told another 3-5 days… Any advice on tactics to use if i have to phone them again after the latest 5 days has passed and they still havent paid me ?
Ben says
Hi
For those that have complaints with JDWilliams, I have finally had confirmation today that the Ombudsman has upheld my case. JDWilliams now has 28 days to adjust my balance and pay redress if any from Nov 2014 onwards. Its been a nightmare, including the fact that the adjudicator originally found in my favour but solely on the bases of the credit limit, which meant as far as JDWilliams calculate no redress was due. My expectation was that all the Ombudsman would to is agree with the adjudicator but this time they didn’t. Not expecting JDWilliams to put things right any time soon but at least I have the ruling.
I have also recently complained to Vodafone, around the way they have managed my account since it was defaulted and CISAS actually upheld my complaint, not sure if that will change things much but it might be worth others trying.
My last complaint against Avantcredit is still with the Ombudsman decision, again the adjudicator has ruled the loan was affordable as I only had one with them so I am expect the Ombudsman to do the same.
Patience Davies says
Hi I have 4 accounts with JD Williams that are now with Mortimer Clarke. I am desperate to submit something to the ombudsman’s to resolve this as this has been hanging over me for a number of years now and has damaged my credit file . Please can you help with the lrrr
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you read the article above? With 4 JD Williams accounts, you just send a single complaint covering them all.
A.D says
Hi Sara i have a complaint at the moment with the financial ombudsman and part of the complaint is about a credit card from 2013-2020. I was complaining originally from 2015-2020 but the case handler suggested I went from when I got the card 2013. However them 2 earlier years are more then 6 years ago since I made the original complaint about irresponsible lending in 2021. The ombudsman come back to me yesterday with a provisional decision and said he is not looking into years 2013-2015 because I need to prove that I wouldn’t have had reasonable knowledge of making a complaint earlier. I said originally I never knew of such a thing of irresponsible lending before 2021 when I saw a advert and that’s when I opened my case. He said come back to me if you have evidence of exceptional circumstances of why I wouldn’t of known or why I didn’t complain within 6 years of first date. I was wondering if you knew what sort of things would be exceptional circumstances? I broke my jaw for 2nd time and had 3 plates put in my jaw in 2015 and was off work for a a few weeks. Was in a bad way mentally with anxiety, would this be worth telling them? Hope you can help, thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Exceptional circumstances would have to last more than a few months.
I suggest you reply saying that it is not possible for you to have to prove a negative, that you did not have reasonable knowledge that you could make a complaint. If you had known, you would have made a complaint to try to help with your financial problems – is that not the most likely explanation of the fact you did not complain earlier? It is your understanding that when there is no simple evidence, FOS looks at what the most probable explantion is.
Also add the following, putting into your own words and changing as necessary:
I have read the 2 key Ombudsman decisions about payday loans https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/17783/payday-loans_time-limts_final-decision-lender-C.pdf and https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/17784/payday-loans_time-limits_final-decision-lender-D.pdf. It seems to me that the approach used there is directly applicable to my JD Williams case.
One says “Mr H would also have been aware, or ought reasonably to have been aware, that he was paying an increasing amount of interest the more loans he took out. So I think that Mr H also ought reasonably to have been aware that he may have suffered a loss, or that he was suffering a loss as he was taking out these loans. But I wasn’t persuaded that Mr H realised that Lender C might’ve been responsible for his repayment problems – nor did I think that Mr H ought reasonably to have made that connection either. In my view, Mr H would, quite reasonably, have seen Lender C’s offer of further loan as a solution to his problem, rather than a cause of it.”
The other said:
“Mrs W appears to be an intelligent and articulate individual who is capable of using the internet to access information. But I do not think it necessarily follows that a reasonable person in those circumstances, who became aware of affordability problems with her loan and who understood that she had suffered loss as a result, would also become aware that her difficulties could be due to failings on the part of the lender. In my view, a reasonable person in Mrs W’s circumstances would be more likely to take personal responsibility for the difficulties she faced.
I am satisfied that a reasonable person in Mrs W’s position could not reasonably be expected to have understood from her contract with LENDER D that the lender had an obligation to check that her loan was affordable before agreeing to provide it to her.”
Like Mr H and Mrs W, I realised that I my credit card was causing me problems and that the minimum payments which were all I could afford were never going to clear my balance as I kept having to borrow more. the debt. This got worse as the credit limit was increased. However I thought this was my fault for not managing money well I didn’t realise the card lender should have checked that the initial credit limit and the increases would be affordable for me, so I didn’t see lender as the cause of my problem. I wrongly saw credit limit increases as a help, even though they made the minimum payments even higher so I kept borrowing more. Until I found out what affordability complaints were, I did not realise I had a cause to complain.
I found out about these complaints in 2021 when I saw an advert from a claims company [on Facebook? be as specific as you can] and then sent a complaint in in the next couple of months.
Rose says
Hello
Has anyone had much luck with Tesco Bank for high interest/charges refund?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Expect them to reject the complaint and for it to have to go to the ombudsman.
Mike_p says
I had a refund from them for a Tesco credit card, and they weren’t too bad as far as these things go. I got a rejection within 5 days so I sent it to the FOS. the FOS upheld it and Tesco accepted in a week.
Rose says
Thank you :)
Sara T says
Oh my the wait is killing me 🤦♀️ Week 8 of Very complaint whenever chased its with a manager and now there going to ring me in the morning hope its good news although doubt it will be anywere near the interest Ive paid for the last 10 years 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well send it to the Ombudsman if it is a poor offer
SaraT says
I will thank you, it would be a nice boost for the summer holidays if they make a nice offer but im half expecting it to go to the ombudsman with the other 2. Thank you x
Natasha says
Which email do you use for very complaints?
Rod says
Hi Sara,
Which email address did you use to contract very.
Many thanks
Rod
Lloyd says
Hi Sara,
Firstly thanks for this great site, it’s been a great help for me and I’m sure many others so thank you.
After your advice on my situation please:
I entered a DMP with Step Change at the start of 2018 after getting into about £35k worth of debt, some of which was caused by gambling.
I’ve stayed with the DMP and have about £10k now outstanding.
Some debts have been paid off but the main ones outstanding are:
nationwide cc – approx 2.5k left
Nationwide overdraft – approx £200 left
Santander CC (via Wescot) – approx £2400 left
Santander overdraft (via Wescot) approx £2200 left
Vanquis – approx £1900 left
Halifax cc (via Wescot) approx £700 left
Capital One CC approx £600 left
barclaycard CC (via PRA) approx £600 left
Argos (via Moorcroft) approx £100 left
aqua (via Hoist) approx £80 left
I would like to either get some refunds on these outstanding debts and/or get the outstanding balances written off on some or some low full and final settlements.
With some of them being with collectors wondering what the best approach might be? To go straight for a refund or ask for the CCA’s etc first?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks Lloyd
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can’t ask for the CCA agreement for overdrafts – it doesn’t apply.
And there isn’t much chance of a CCA request working if the debt has not been sold to a debt collector.
Also it’s best to complain about the credit card and overdraft affordability at the same time.
Lloyd says
Thank you.
The overdraft and credit card for Santander have gone to Wescot so should I write to them about affordability or to Santander directly you think?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have the debts been sold to Westcot or are they collecting for Santander?
Lloyd says
I think they are just collecting for them as still get occasional statements from Santander.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then your affordability complaint goes to Santander and there is little point in asking for CCA agreements.
Mary says
Hi Sara, One of the first complaints that I submitted FOS was relating to a credit card which has a low starting balance however it was in the Height where I had £23,000 worth of debt. I’ve previously had three high cost loans and three credit card increases within 10 months of applying and had already been in arrears with many of them.
I hadn’t had any responses back from any of my complaints and this was the first one where the adjudicator didn’t uphold my complaint and I didn’t realise that I had a certain timescale to get them to escalate to the ombudsman. I have now one five out of my six complaints prior to this credit card been issued I wanted to know whether I was able to resubmit a Complaint with regards to this? It is the only one that is defaulted on my credit file 😭
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This credit card with the low starting limit – was it later increased?
I didn’t realise that I had a certain timescale to get them to escalate to the ombudsman.
the email from the adjudicator should have said this.
Mary says
Hi Sara, the card wasn’t increased but I believe I shouldn’t have been given it, I was told because I was a small limit then it was likely that it was affordable, I did explain that I had over £890 of other credit commitments per months already to the adjudicator, they said a date but I thought that I wouldn’t have a chance and was told to try and sort out with the credit company instead, by the time I had discussed the complaint directly with the company the time had passed
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry but there is nothing you can do here. And you would have been unlikely to win the complaint in any case if the limit was low. .
Mary says
Thanks Sara, so wouldn’t be able to resubmit the complaint again?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no.
Mary says
Hi Sara, I have a development with regards to my complaints that was closed by the FOS, I have been through my communication emails with them and I noticed that when the adjudicator didn’t uphold my complaints as you are aware on the final decision email they state it can be escalated to an ombudsman if we were to disagree with the outcome.
I emailed back at this point to provide more evidence straight away and the adjudicator came back and inform me that her opinion hadn’t changed but didn’t inform me again that I could escalate this to an ombudsman i’m just stated that I could call her to discuss but it wouldn’t change the case.
I spoke to the FOS complaints department, apparently I should have had the reminder following on from my evidence response as I was still in the deadline timescale and they escalated it to a manager as the adjudicator should have reminded me that I could escalate and they sided with me as they Believe that the adjudicator acted unfairly as I should’ve been given the opportunity with every response I received as it was clear that I was unhappy with the decision therefore they are going to reopen my case.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Thanks, very interesting. So are they reopening the case?
Mary says
Okay, thank you
Laura says
Hi can anyone tell me their experience of capital one and whether they usually agree with the adjudicator?
Jax says
Hi Laura, they agreed with my adjudicator and paid me quite quickly after.
Laura says
Thank you for replying so promptly. I’m hoping they do the same with me, because I just can’t deal with another wait for an ombudsman but if so, so be it haha. I don’t know whether they’ll argue though as it’s 7 years interest and charges above 600 and my current balance is 1900 and has been for years so it’ll be quite a bit of money
Jax says
Mine was from 2016 and also was quite a bit in interest and charges. My balance was 0. Good luck. Hope they agree 👍
Laura says
Thanks for letting me know cap one have agreed with ombudsman so just waiting for them to contact me
Deano says
I have one in with Cap One at the moment. £1600 limit which isn’t a great deal, but the card was issued whilst I was in a DMP and they increased my limit a couple of months after I got a CCJ.
It was rejected on the time limit initially, as it’s from 2009… but I knew nothing about affordability complaints until “Satsuma” happened and reading this site. It’s now with the FOS.
Had the card until 2016 – maxed out throughout.
Laura says
Hi Deano
Ombudsman have come back to me this morning, capital one have accepted their view so just need to wait for them to contact me to pay the settlement. Fingers crossed for your case
Eve says
Hi Sara,
I currently have ombudsman cases open with all 4 of my debts. I am struggling even more with my debts now as my income has dropped in the past couple of months. If I enter a debt management plan now, will this impact my complaints?
Thank you in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it won’t hurt your complaints. I think a DMP is a good option if you have complaints going through – it gets you into a safe financial space and if you win any complaints the DMP will be speeded up.
Ciaran says
Hi, does anyone have an email address for newday cards?
Ciaran says
Hi Sara, I had an opus card (newday) a while back which they increased the limit to of £3350. I paid my balance in full each month but then immediately borrowed right up to the limit by using the card to top up my revolut card. They also gave me a newday amazon card during this period with limit of £1200, which I also paid in full each month then borrowed straight away on. Are these good grounds for an appeal?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. What was your first credit limit?
Ciaran says
I think it started around £450 but increased quite quickly.
Should I complain about both these cards in the one complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. Ask for a refund of all charges on the second card, which they should not have given you. And fir the first card I suggest you ask for a refund of all charges from the date of the first limit increase as at that point they should have seen you were in difficulty.
LA says
Hi,
I recently logged a complaint with Newday (Aqua), I’ve gone to log in to my account online and have a message saying the account is no longer accessible. Has anyone else experienced the same please? Is it usually good or bad news? Thank you.
Mary says
Yes they are going to reopen and sent to the ombudsman, I am aware that it might not change the outcome but at least I get the opportunity for them to review
David says
Hello DC.
If I get a refund due to an unaffordabikity complaint which dates back to 2020 time of lending, will this affect my universal credits oatments?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
refunds do not count as income for Benefits purposes, but cash received is treated is as capital, so broadly over £6000 in your bank account will start to reduce UC and over £16,000 will mean your UC stops until the balance drop below 16k.
To the extent that any refund just reduces a balance owed, that has no affect on UC.
PS it is unlikely you will get any refund for anything before 2007.
David says
Ahhh thank you. I don’t think I would be penalised then as any refund expected is likely going to be below 6k. Thank you!!
Mary says
Hi Sara,
I have won 2 affordability complaints with Newday relating an Aqua card and Fluid card.
Both debts were sold to a debt collection agency, one of the terms for my complaint that they would remove the negative information from my credit file.
Do you know how that would look on my credit file, would it show as not defaulted or any arrears and the debts passed back to Newday? Or my Cabot account would show as up to date? Surely due to their error it shouldn’t have even been passed to a debt collection ?!
Sorry I have had some many questions over the last year. Seriously I don’t know what I would have done with you and your guidance! Thanks again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This depends on how Newday resolves the debts with Cabot. They can buy them back, in which case the Cabot debt should be removed. Or they can arrange to have the Cabot balance corrected and any default or arrrears should be removed.
Jimmy says
Hi, what email did you complain to for your aqua account? I am going to be doing the same.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
use complaints@newday.co.uk
Jimmy says
Thanks so much Sara
Rose says
Hello
I have sent a email complaint to Tesco Bank I keep getting the odd email of we are still looking into this- it will be 5 weeks that I originally sent my complaint – is there any advice for me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Chill out until 8 weeks! This isn’t unusual, it isn’t good or bad news, probably no one has looked at your complaint yet.
Deano says
I wanted to share a success story and say thanks for this fantastic site! Without the advice on here, I would never have achieved the little victory that’s happened this week.
Back in 2009 I took out a Vanquis credit card. I was pretty desperate at the time, just had a child, zero spare money and a massive DMP with nearly £40k outstanding.
Within a year, the limit on the Vanquis card went from £300 to £3,000 – which I maxed out every time it went up. It made my DMP massively harder because obviously all of my official spare money was going to my creditors, and Vanquis was outside of this.
Long story short, I complained it was unaffordable lending. They rejected it as it was out of time. I sent it to the FOS explaining why I’d not complained earlier and they upheld the complaint. Vanquis are now returning all interest and fees charged.
The FOS informed them last week. I don’t know how much the redress will be in total, but so far it’s cleared my outstanding £2.5k balance!
I would never have complained had it not been for the information and people on this site! A big thanks to Sara for spending so much time making this all happen.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
excellent!
how is that very large DMP going?
Deano says
It was cleared in 2014 when I sold my house fortunately. Plus, lots of the agreements at the time has massive PPI fees attached which I managed to get refunded. That cleared about £15k of it.
I have another complaint in with Capital One who let me open an account under the same circumstances in the same time period… the only difference was by that point I’d also had a CCJ issued a few months before hand.
They’ve also knocked it back because of the time limit so it’s gone to the FOS too.
Dan says
Quick question, I’m currently chasing Barclaycard and LLoyds for irresponsible lending.
I had a dormant I guess? AMEX card that I opened in 2016 and it sat unused, not sure if I’d even activated it at the time to be honest but when I fell into financial trouble in 2017/18 after I had maxed out everything else I was able to start using my AMEX that I had previously, I think I held it from 2016, never used and then started using it in late 2019 and defaulted shortly after. I’m just wondering if I can still chase this for irresponsible lending in that there were no regular credit checks done or at least before activating a card after so long of having it? This might be a bit of a stretch and it’s a smaller one of the lenders but still, all the interest and defaults add up and will help towards the bigger picture.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So far as I know, there isn’t a requirement for a lender to reassess dormant accounts.
Wullie says
Is there a contact detail for Virgin Credit Card?
Richard says
customerrelations@virginmoney.com
they didnt get chance to look at my complaint and it has now arrived at 8 weeks, they sent me a letter saying i can escalate it to FOS and apologised so i would expect this is the same for most complaints to them.
Sarah S says
Hi Richard
I’ve had a complaint with Virgin since 26th April!
My card was opened with Yorkshire Bank around 2002 and credit limit constantly increased from 500 to 8k. All gambling transactions and eventually ended up with CCJ. Finally paid it all off in 2017
I’ve had a few letters also apologising for the delay in a final response but to be reassured that they are thoroughly investigating my complaint but curiously asking me NOT to escalate to the Ombudsman!!
I may be being naive here, but I am taking this as a sign that the outcome may be a favourable one, and as I am now gamble and debt free I have decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait for their final response. Did your letter say anything about not going to the Ombudsman or did they just say go ahead?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would reply saying it goes to FOS in one week if they haven’t made you a satisfactory offer by then.
It is MUCH more likely they haven’t even looked at your complaint, then they are looking very hard at it in great detail and need several more meetings and zoom calls to decide on your complaint…
Jimmy says
Hi Sara,
So I’m just wondering if the credit card increases where not affordable or shouldn’t have been given because of gambling transactions and always using up all my limit would a complaint won have it removed from my credit file?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That depends on various things. How large your balance is and how large the refund would be. Whether there are any missed payments or a default. Normally a lender just has to remove any negative markers but sometimes a lender will take a quick route and delete the record if the balance is cleared.
Jimmy says
So it’s on 2 cards so that was with aqua and vanquis for around 1k and 2k. Both are with debt collection company Cabot. They both defaulted in 2019 and I wouldn’t be worried about interest or anything. I’m paying them off at the moment but it’s the damage on my credit I would like gone.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can’t complain and say you only want your credit record cleaned – you need to just make a standard affordability complaint. Anyway, you do need the balances reduced or cleared, don’t you, even if it isn’t your top prioirity.
Jimmy says
Yes that’s right, would i need to do the complaints to aqua and vanquis or both to Cabot? I hope in the next few months I will be able to clear the balance on both accounts
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Affordability complaints are always made to the original lender – they are the one that made the incorrect decision to give you more credit.
If you win, the lender will sort out the refund taking into account what you have paid the Cabot.
Jax says
My complaint against MBNA has been upheld by an adjudicator at FOS. My limit was never increased but was quite large to start with. Does anyone have any experience of whether they tend to accept the adjudicator decision or whether it will have to go to an ombudsman please? Also it was sold to a debt collector 2 years ago and I still have a balance remaining albeit not large. How does that work? Thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
MBNA will have to sort out the debt with the debt collector, taking into account what you have paid the debt collector as well as what you paid MBNA. The default should be removed or the whole debt deleted.
Jax says
Excellent, thanks Sara.
AL says
Hi Jax, can I ask how big the initial limit was? Thanks
Jax says
Hi AL, it was 5700.
Zoe b says
n 2018 I put a claim for irresponsible lending with shop direct – I had nearly £20000 in credit over Very and Littlewood accounts. Payments of nearly £1000 a month. After my complaint was turned down by the adjudicator it went to the ombudsman. The ombudsman was due to go in my favour when out of the blue SD made an offer. To refund interest from the time I started to have difficulty paying £666. Remove any negative data, buy the debt back from Lowell and would no longer pursue the debt. I agreed to this am signed it with the ombudsman making comment this was a fair offer. I don’t think it was as I don’t think I should have been given that sort of limit as it was more than I earned. But I just wanted it done.
Zoe b says
My adjudicator was awful and advised on many things incorrectly including saying I’d be getting the refund but actually as standard practise I now know, for it to be deducted from the remaining debt. He was also unable to confirm what they meant by not pursing the debt meant. So after lots of attempts to speak to SD I finally spoke with a gentleman in their complaints dept who explained, the debt would still be visible on my credit file until 2020, but they would not attempt to chase it and no missed payments noted. So actually this was a pretty good outcome as I still owed them around £4,500. Around 3 months later I received a letter from SD saying they’d changed their mind and sold the debt back to Lowell and notified the credit reference agencies of the original default.
Zoe b says
I have complained twice to Lowell asking them the second time to investigate if it themselves not just send it to SD for their opinion. I’ve sent them my FOS communications with SD offer and the name and and date I spoke to the complaints man and asked them to listen to the call. Obviously they didn’t do this and the same standard response came back that SD said this was correct. Where do I stand with this? Can they make an offer via the FOS then change their mind months later.My adjudicator refused to get the ombudsman to make a final decision and said I’d have to go through the courts now which I dont think is correct and think it was more him covering the huge amount of mistakes he made dealing with this. In fact he said he didn’t think it mattered who the debt belonged to and didn’t know why I was bothered about it! Obviously one company wasn’t going to chase me the other is chafing me every 5 minutes. I wrote to the FOS about this last year but no one ever responded. So I am back with Lowell contacting me every few days now and I dont know what I can do if anything to get them to stop as it goes against what I agreed back in 2019 as a settlement. Any advice would be welcomed as always.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What a hassle! I have never heard of a case like this.
So it’s no use complaining to Lowell, it’s not their fault SD haven’t kept to the agreement.
And the adjudicator was wrong about it having to go to court. What you need to do is send SD a new complaint saying they have not kept to the terms of the offer they made to settle your FOS complaint. Detail what you want them to do – buy the debt back from Lowell and not ask you to pay it as had been agreed. Then send this complaint to FOS if SD don’t agree. And at that point ask FOS for additional money as compensation for all this.
Zoe b says
Thank you for your help it’s a total disaster.
Pippa says
Hi…I’ve had a response from the Investigator about my out of time affordability complaint from J D Williams today. The account was taken out in 2013 so at first glance it is out of time. In my complaint I wrote about only becoming aware that I could make a claim in 2021 when I saw an advert etc however they have said that they have looked at my bank statements and seen that because I did not make a payment between October 2015 and March 2016 to JD I should have been aware I was struggling at that point. I said in my complaint that I saw the increases as a help but she has said she couldn’t see why I saw them as a help when I was struggling at that time!
Frankly this seems to be the opposite reply that many others have had on this site. I now have to respond with my intentions on whether I agree with her decision or not. I definitely don’t agree and wonder if anyone could offer any advice please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know the dates of the credit limit increases?
Pippa says
Yes there were three during oct 2015 and march 2016 plus several others after this date.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, I suggest you reply making the following points.
1) that you were aware you were in difficulty in 2015/16 but you thought that was because you were bad at handling money and you were not aware then that a lender should have checked that a limit was affordable for you, so you had no ide that you could complain about it.
2) You accepted limit increases as at the time they looked helpful but really they made your situation much worse.
3) that you not making a payment to JDW between Oct 15 and Mar 16 should have been a huge sign to JDW that you were in trouble and yet they did not offer forbearance and offered more credit in Mar 16. They should have frozen interest when you could not pay and not increased your limit further. So you think all interest should be refunded from Oct 15
4) the fact that 2013 is more than 6 years ago is irrelevant as you are complaining about a string of JDW decisions, some much later, not just the original decision to open the account.
5) you would like the adjudicator to reconsider and if they do not change their mind you would like the case to go to an Ombudsman.
Catherine says
Does this sound right? My limit was £4000 at one point but it only says £2500.
I’ve reviewed Shop Direct’s settlement offer and it appears to be in line with our guidelines on redress. This means we wouldn’t have recommended it do more to put things right had we upheld this part of your complaint. I say this because we expect consumers to repay the capital balance on the account – in the case of a catalogue shopping account, this is the amount spent on the goods you kept. As such, we would not expect a business to write-off this amount. By refunding the interest and any charges which were added to your account from the point it has upheld it has acted fairly.
No award of 8% simple interest is due as the revised outstanding balance on the account exceeds the value of the refund. This means Shop Direct are permitted to use the redress to reduce the amount you owe. The 8% simple interest is only due on redress which is due to be paid directly to you. Based on the most recent correspondence from Shop Direct on 6 July 2022, I understand the balance on your account now stands at £664.11.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you copy out exactly what the offer from SD was?
where is £2500 mentioned?
Catherine says
As you mentioned, Shop Direct has confirmed that it has partially upheld your complaint from 1 December 2018, when you credit limit was increased from £2000 to £2500. It has calculated redress of £1235.82, which includes interest and charges on the account from the point the balance on your account exceeded £2000. This was calculated as follows:
Standard interest charges £163.80
Buy Now Pay Later (“BNPL”) £868.02
Administration charges £204.00
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So was your credit limit increased to 4000 at that point? Or later?
What was your financial situation like in Dec 18, were you only makings minimum payments? Were your other debts increasing? Had you missed debt payments? Etc
Catherine says
It’s was increased to £4000 over the years but by 2021 it was £4000 and I had to enter a payment plan with them cause I was struggling with payments. The minimum was around £165. I also had loans with amigo and provident and loans at home. Also a overdraft of £4800 that I was constantly going overdrawn on and paying charges and interest. The adjudicator says he’s looking at the dates that they didn’t uphold from when I opened the account in jan 17 to dec 18.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok I think you should go back to your adjdicator and say that you didn’t understand what SD were offering and now you do, you don’t think it’s fair. You think that from December 2018 you should be refunded all the interest and charges as at that point it should have been clear to SD that you were really struggling and they should have offered forbearance not increased your limit.
“Forbearance” is regulator-speak for freezing interest.
Catherine says
I didn’t accept the offer from SD they just applied it to my account. So then I sent it to the FOS cause I think I shouldn’t have been given the account in the first place especially with a starting limit of £2000 and I’m not sure if they’ve refund all the interest from December 18 as they’ve said cause the total just seems a bit low. Also them saying they’ve refunded from when it was increased from £2000 to £2500 does that mean they’ve not refunded when it went above £2500 cause my limit was £4000 before I entered the payment plan. It’s all just very confusing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry I assumed you were just disputing SD’s calculation.
But you are actually disputing their offer, saying it was not fair.
So go back to your adjudicator and say you would like to clarify that you think the original limit SD gave you was too unamangeably high and they should have realised this. So you would like a full refund of all charges.
Catherine says
I’ve heard back from adjudicator today he’s upheld my complaint. He’s said very should refund all interest and charges from the point I opened the account and not just from the 18th December like they have. He’s given very till the 1st September to reply. Not sure how much it’s going to be I have £600 left to pay so hopefully enough to clear that. That’s 2 cases I’ve sent to the FOS now and won. I just wish I knew about Amigo and provident earlier and id have more than likely won them too.
Dan says
Well that’s my first affordability complaint passed onto FOS.
MBNA replied saying they have rejected my complaint because my account was opened more than 6 years ago (20 September 2016) Which is wrong and that I’m complaining more than 3 years after I realised (or should have realised) there was a problem. I did know there was a problem hence I contacted Stepchange 3 years ago to setup a plan but I think it’s unfair to say I should have known specifically about affordability complaints.
They mentioned where they’d increased my credit limit from £5500-6000 in Sept 2018 but rejected an increase of £2000 in 2019 but failed to mentioned in the letter an £1100 increase they gave me in October 2017 a year after opening it and constantly being up to my limit when I also had lots of other debt at the time.
Fingers crossed, this is one of the weaker claims but still think the increases from opening shouldn’t have happened.
Thanks again Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If your account was opened in September 2016 that is less than 6 years and it is 100% certain that FOS will look at this. The 3 year argument is not relevant if the account was opened in the last 6 years.
This sounds quite strong to me from what you have said. If your adjudicator says MBNA should not have given you an increase so they should refund the aount you were charged over the original limit, go back and argue that at that point MBNA should have seen that you were in difficulty and they should have offered forbearance and to freeze interest, . So you would like ALL the interest and charges from that point refunded.
Jax says
I thought MBNA was my weakest complaint as my credit limit was never increased but the adjudicator at FOS upheld my complaint this week. I did have a lot of gambling on my bank statements so may be completely different from your complaint. I’m waiting to hear whether MBNA accept the adjudicator decision or whether it will have to go to an ombudsman.
SaraT says
Can I ask what an adjudicator is please, not sure if its part of the ombudsman process or the company dealing with the complaint? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At the Ombudsman your complaint is first looked at by someone with the title of an adjudicator, sometimes called an investigator. If both sides accept the adjudicator decision that is it.
If either side rejects it, then it goes to the second “Ombudsman” level where the decision is made by someone more senior with the title of Ombudsman.
Ombudsman decisions are published on their website, but the customer’s name is anonymised to Ms T. They are legally binding on the firm.
Sarat says
Aah great thank you very much x
Chris says
Hi Sara – I’ve used your website for a number of years now and you have helped me to win quite a few affordability complaints – thank you. I’ve also helped my mum to win a few. My mum had two credit card accounts with M&S which were probably opened 30 years ago. Many years ago (20 ish) she got into financial difficulty and began to make reduced payments to these cards under an agreement. About 5 years ago, she won a PPI claim against M&S and received a settlement. She stopped paying the accounts and assumed that they were settled under the PPI settlement. She never heard anything further from M&S until today, when she received two letters, one asking her to pay an outstanding balance of £900 and one an outstanding balance of £1600. Are these debts still enforceable even if they do still exist, which is questionable? My mum can’t afford to settle them and is concerned that they could reappear on her credit report – could this happen? Many thanks Sara.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
were the letters from M&S? or have the debts been sold to a debt collector?
Chris says
From M&S themselves – thanks.
M&S have now started to call my mum as well about this – including a voicemail at 8.30 this morning! This is causing her worry and any advice would be much appreciated – thanks Sara.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you confirm if your mum was making reduced payments until she won the PPI claim?
The first thing she should do is ask for a statement of her account. Say that she reclaimed PPI 5 years ago and she thought that had cleared the balance and she hasn’t heard anything since then.
If they come back with something that does suggest she owes them money, then one thing she could do is ask them to produce the CCA agreements for the 2 cards. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/. I don’t usually suggest people do this when the debt has not been sold to a debt colector. But in this case the accounts are so VERY old that it is worth doing. If M&S cannot produce a true copy of the paperwork the debt is unenforceable and does not have to be paid.
Can I ask how old your mum is? Does she have other problem debts as well? Is she behind with any bills?
Chris says
Hi Sara – thanks so much for your reply. I can confirm that she was making reduced payments until she won the PPI claim. I phoned them this morning and they said that there had been no communication since 2014. My mum is 73. She has a number of debts and is routinely in her overdraft, but is on top of all bills. Please could you clarify whether these accounts could be put back onto her credit record as she is worried about that – many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Once a debt has dropped off a credit record 6 years after the default date, it cannot reappear.
Can I ask if she intends to take out any credit? because if she doesn’t, then her credit score doesn’t much matter.
Tracey says
Hi
Does anyone know the percentage of commission Bank of Scotland charged on PPI
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Bank of Scotland had lots of products – loans, credit cards, mortgages – where PPI may have been charged. Over many years. The commission may depend on the exact product and the date it was sold on. And whether it was online or in branch.
So even if someone knows the commission rate on their BoS credit, that may not be at all relevant for your credit.
Tracey says
I was told I was charged 96.4% on my credit card, does this sound right
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you talking to a claims firm about making a plevin claim?
Tracey says
I am thinking of contacting a solicitor
Regarding Plevin
Tommy says
Hi Sara
This site is excellent.
I have 2 cards with Capital One and currently on a payment plan for both. I should never have been given the initial as I had numerous pay day loans, missed payments on other CCs etc and definitely should never have been given the 2nd one as I maxed out on the 1st card with gambling transactions. I want to make an affordability complaint but my worry is Capital One will cancel my payment plans if I do so. Can they do this? Are they likely to? They have 6 months to run and I will still have balances at the end. I’m concerned that they may start being awkward. Do Capital One ever uphold these type of complaints or make offers or is the likelihood that I will have to send to FOS? Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, they won’t cancel your payment plans – that would not be treating you fairly. I have never heard of any lender doing this.
Where there is gambling involved, it is very likely a lender will reject a complaint. So I suggest you mentally plan for this to have to go to FOS. Even though, as you say, you should definitely have never been given that second card!
How large was the initial limit on the first card? did they increase that limit?
Tommy says
Thanks Sara
1st card was £1500 limit didn’t get increase because maxed out within a few weeks, then applied for 2nd card with £500 and also maxed out within a few weeks with mainly cash withdrawals (not gambling because I had stopped that), missed payments and went on plans paid numerous over limit charges also. Had numerous PDLs on the go all the while and other CCs.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then you definitely want the first card refunded as well. I think you should assume the case will have to go to FOS.
Ben says
Hi
Does anyone have a way to contact JD Williams, I have finally have had my case upheld by the Ombudsman and they have until next week to put things right but so far nothing has happened
Ben
Chris says
general.enquiries@jdwilliams.co.uk this is the email I have been using, waiting for them to do the calculations as wee, but halfway through the 4 weeks they were given, they haven’t even contacted the DCA that the accounts were passed to.
Ben says
Thanks Chris, I actually got an email yesterday from JD Williams saying that my redress total is £65.81 which will come off my balance. They gave no breakdown and not sure how they came up with at figure. The ruling from the Ombudsman was that all interest and fees from November 2014 needs to be removed, which from the SAR data provided by JD Williams, comes out to be £1,850.56. Really not sure what to do now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back and ask JDW for a breakdown of how much was charged in each year. And tell your adjudicator what is happening.
Chris says
you must have signed up on a really good APR to have only paid £65.81 in interest & fees in nearly 8 years ;-) I didn’t request a sar, so don’t have exact figures, but I know I was paying more in interest\charges per month than what they say you paid in nearly 8 years, so it will be interesting to see how my calculations turn out.
After seeing Sara advise so many on here to go back and ask for the breakdown, I actually asked in my initial email after they accepted what FOS proposed, to send a breakdown and also confirm any adverse info on credit file will removed, but I won’t hold my breath.
Hope you get the correct figures sorted quickly, good luck.
Cheers
Chris
Elle says
Hi again Sara,
I’ve had lending complaints with 8 catalogues, all placed at the same time (Sept 2019) but my Very/Isme/Littlewoods complaint is the only one that is with the FOS still but hasn’t been picked up by an adjudicator yet.
I sent back the usual FOS consent forms to sign/fill in/agree to etc…via Resolver 01/06/2020… just over 2 years ago…but I’ve heard nothing more.
I obviously realise that the pandemic has delayed lots of things inc the FOS but like I said my VERY case is the only one not moving forward.
I have contacted the FOS, via the same means, in Feb and July this year querying this but no one has ever replied.
My initial complaint was sent to VERY on 24/09/2019 which means I’ve been awaiting an outcome for nearly 3 years now, it’ll be 3 years in Sept.
I know some folks have waited quite a while for catalogue complaint outcomes but nearly 3 years?..Especially when all my other complaints have been dealt with within in 2 years tops.
Should I ring the FOS to see what’s happening, or at least double check they are receiving correspondence from me or should I just wait?
Thx
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you need to phone FOS and ask what is happening.
Sarat says
Hi Very have upheld my claim which is brilliant, can you remind me about income tax as there taking it from the simple interest but say I can claim it back from hmrc? I cant work as have disabled children but cant find a previous question about it? Tia
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you don’t pay any tax, you can get a full refund of it. If you pay basic rate tax, you can get a refund of £200 in a tax year.
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ppi-payday-refund-get-back-tax/ for how to claim this back.
Would you like to share how much they are refunding you? people love to hear success stories!
Sarat says
Fab thank you, I dont mind as it shows how silly I was, soo many years been embarrassed to ask for help borrowing more to meet minimum payments 😢 Littlewoods account are paying £3900 interest and 8% interest – 20% tax and Very account £19340 with 8% in there and -20% tax my other accounts are with the Ombudsman now so hopefully that will pay my last loan so I can be debt free for the first time in 30years, not proud but so grateful to you Sarah xxx
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much from Very? Was that a typo???
Sarat says
No not a typo 😱x
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then that is the biggest catalogue refund I have seen! Was that direct from Very or via FOS?
Sarat says
Direct from very, just over 9 weeks. 😱🥰
Nadia says
Hi Sara
Well I think things are moving in the right direction for me; I had an adjudicator decision today to say they uphold my complaint re: affordability with Barclaycard and have suggested to them that the remedy should be a refund/rework of all interest from when the account was opened in 2013 and any negative information rectified on my credit file.
It was such a relief to read this however I know not to get too carried away until Barclaycard have had the opportunity to respond etc.
In your experience do Barclaycard tend to accept the adjudicator decision or do they escalate to ombudsman?
This card was £15,500 limit and the interest I’ve paid runs into thousands so it would be life changing if they accept the adjudicator decision. (I feel sick with nerves!)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry but I haven’t yet seen enough decisions to make a guess. Fingers crossed for you!
Nadia says
Thank you. I can’t tell you how useful this site is, I would have never even have known about affordability complaints until I discovered your site in lockdown.
Your advice is spot on, and greatly appreciated.
Jane B says
Hi Sara,
Can I submit an affordability complaint to MBNA for an account that was opened in 1989? The credit limit was increased to a whopping 25k from an initial limit of around 2k. I entered a DMP in 2012, the debt was sold to a DCA and I settled for a reduced sum last year, using cash from my pension. I always felt it was entirely my fault about my debt issues but reading this thread makes me realize how irresponsible MBNA were to increase my limit so high without affordability checks. At one point the minimum payment was around 500 per month and I was crippled. Is it worth my while, it’s affected my life for years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The credit limit was increased to a whopping 25k from an initial limit of around 2k.
when were the credit limit increases?
Jane B says
Hi Sara, I can’t be specific about the increases but they were every few months over a period of a few years. I had the 25k limit for a few years before I entered a DMP.
Mandy says
Hello Sara
I have had confirmation from the ombudsman that they agree with regarding a Tesco credit card, they gave Tesco until the 22nd July to respond, they didn’t, however the ombudsman said he would chase it up, I still haven’t heard anything, what are the options Tesco have? If they don’t reply at all can they just ignore the ombudsman?
Thanks Mandy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is an adjudicator decision? Or a second “Ombudsman-level” decision?
Mandy says
Adjudicator decision
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then if Tesco rejects it, or simply ignores it, this will have to be looked at by an Ombudsman.
In 90% of cases the Ombudsman confirms what the adjudicator said.
Mandy says
Thank you for the reply fingers crossed it gets sorted soon x
Jax says
Hello, can anyone tell me whether mbna report to transunion please? I can’t remember whether this used to be on my credit report and I don’t know how to get historical reports from credit karma.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You cannot get historical reports from any CRA unless you have been paying for their expensive months subscriptions at that time.
Is this for the Ombudsman? just send a copy of your current credit report. Also look at ClearScore and MSE’s credit club.
Jax says
Thanks Sara. It’s not for the Ombudsman, I was just curious. Incidentally, MBNA have disagreed with the adjudicator so I have asked for it to be looked at by an Ombudsman.
Marc says
Hi Sara,
I have just had an Adjudicator fully find in my favour regarding a Barclaycard complaint – however he is recommending they refund all fees/charges but not the interest I have paid.
I have paid approx. £1.5k in fees and possibly 30k in interest over the years.
The complaint was essentially having a 13k limit (which i couldn’t afford) and I basically used the card purely for gambling over many years.
Should I send it to the Ombudsman? I feel like I have little to lose.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you go back to the adjudicator and ask if this includes all the interest? If not, why not? Because this sounds a very odd decision if it doesn’t include the interest.
Marc says
I got this back:
It doesn’t mean they’ll refund all the interest applied on the account as you’re ultimately responsible for the card transactions and the associated interest accrued against them, but it should still be a reasonable sum of the total outstanding balance. It would be for Barclays to calculate.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you ask why the interest is not being refunded? Point out that it normally is in affordability complaints and ask the adjudicator to look at this again.
Marc says
Here is the response – ‘I certainly appreciate your comments on this. This is something I had considered and also sought guidance to ensure I was providing the most appropriate and reasonable response to your complaint.
I will query this further and get back to you.’
Shall i explain anything further or reaffirm how much the interest payments affect me etc..?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should just wait – unless there is something very unusual about your case, it sounds very odd.
Karen says
Can you complain about treatment with a mortgage and arrears? It was with KENSINGTON.
Also, if you were continually in arrears and had CCJs, how far back can you go with claims about payday loans, or loans/credit cards etc, please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Mortgages come under different rules, not the ones talked about here as affordability complaints.
If you feel you haven’t been treated fairly, you should complain to Kensington and set out why and then send the case to the ombudsman, but the templates here will not help you and they could be misleading.
Claims about loans, cards etc can go back to April 2007 in theory, but you may find it hard to have any evidence about what happened a long time ago, as the article above says.
Jane B says
Hi Sara, I had a credit card with MBNA which was opened in the late 1980’s. It did get sold to a debt collector while I was in a DMP through stepchange and this is now closed. I’ve been reading this thread and think I’ve got a good case for an affordability complaint. Basically, MBNA increased my credit limit to 25,000 and this was done via an ‘opt in’ i.e. send this signed slip back to accept the increase (from memory) but I don’t believe they did any further checks. Not only that but I took a consolidation loan around 2006 and the underwriter called me to say they were concerned about my level of debt (including other cards) and would give me the loan but reduce my credit limit down to 2k which I agreed but this never happened so either someone decided not to or it was an error. I ran the limit up again, at the time I was covering most of my living expenses on credit cards. Stupid I know but obviously when all this came crashing down, I owed substantially more than I would have, had they done what they said they’d do and reduced the limit. I don’t have any paperwork relating to this anymore but I’m sure they must have records and they may try to time bar it but I have only just realized that I have grounds to complain. What do you think?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have any idea when the last increase was?
Jane B says
Hi Sara, the last increase would have been around 2006/2007 I think. I will have a root through old papers and see if I have anything. I started to default around 2010 and went into the DMP in 2012.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case you will struggle to win an affordability complaint. The legal situation changed massively in April 20177 and all these affordability complaints covered in the article above refer to things that happened – an account being opened or a credit limit being increased – after that date.
Where you may have a different complaint is if MBNA continued to charge interest on the card after you defaulted or after you entered a DMP. If you think that happened, then read https://debtcamel.co.uk/creditor-wont-freeze-interest/ and make a complaint about that.
Nicole says
Good Afternoon Sara, I put in 3 affordability complaints to Very, Next & Vanquis in June. Next rejected, Very upheld my complaint and refunded £1923. And today Vanquis responded with “we have determined that the complaint is upheld. We have not been able to satisfy ourselves that the lending that took place was suitable for you” they haven’t disclosed how much my redress is but I opened my account in 2010 and my limit increased up to £4000.
I entered a DMP in August 2019 and they sold on my debt to NCO in May 2020! The remaining balance of just over £3000 was settled last year with an agreed full & final settlement of just over £2000 and the account closed.
Vanquis have said they’ll now contact NCO to retrieve my account back and then the redress will pay any outstanding balance and I’ll be sent any left over if any. As I settled and closed the account last year does this mean NCO will tell them the account has closed and I’ll get the full redress? even though it was only a partial settlement but it was an agreement to part settle and close the account. Could you also speculate how long this may take from now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Vanquis will work out how much interest you did pay, given you made a partial settlement. You won’t get a refund of money you didn’t pay…
you should make it clear to Vanquis that you want the default removed on the Vanquis debt record and the NCO debt record.
I can’t really guess how long but don’t hold your breath…
Nicole says
It’s been six weeks to get to this point so we’ll just keep waiting.
Does it make a difference to the amount then being that I part settled with NCO who brought the debt from Vanquis? Vanquis weren’t aware I part settled yet and I’m not sure if NCO disclose this with them when they get in contact?
They’ve said arrangements will be made to remove any adverse information with the credit referencing agents, although they never marked me as defaulted. They accepted the reduced amount from payplan (didn’t stop the interest though) and then sold it on to NCO…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Vanquis will ask NCO how much you have paid to the debt. This will go into the calculation to determine what your refund is. If you had paid £1000 more, then you would get £1000 more refunded.
Nicole says
Hi again Sara, it’s closing in to 3 months since Vanquis upheld my complaint and the process to recourse the account from Arrow supposedly started. I was told by Vanquis it could take around 5 weeks but to keep checking in every 2 weeks to which the same answer ‘it’s not back yet’
Around the middle of September I took it in to my own hands and contacted Arrow who were completely unaware the Vanquis wanted the settled and closed account back! Since then I’ve spent hours on the phone to both parties, past on email address but still the two companies don’t seem to be communicating (only two emails from Arrows buy back team to the person that apparently deals with this in Vanquis who then stopped responding)
Two weeks ago it was then suggested that possibly it could be solved with not retracting the account but instead emailing proof the account was settled! It doesn’t need to be returned to remove any defaults etc as these where never put on my account to which vanquis agreed but I also sent that as proof too!
I sent bank statements, copies of payplan sending the money (they dealt with the settlement) and a forwarded email from Arrow confirming that the account was settled on such and such date with account numbers, balance of 0, how much was paid! After a 10 day backlog of emails Vanquis responded it was added to my file and now needs to be checked! I called again as the email stated it could take 56 days, it was forwarded on to a manager today to try and hurry the process but he wasn’t 100% confident it would be enough to do this process instead! Can I have your advice on how I could speed this up/what to say to vanquis? I plan to attempt to speak with a manager but buying back the account clearly isn’t going to work as still to today Arrow have received nothing from Vanquis and it’s seems Vanquis are almost waiting for my to give up instead of paying out!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell Vanquis you will be sending the complaint to the Ombudsman if it isnt sorted in 2 weeks and you will be asking for compensation.
Lyn says
Nicole, please may I ask how long Very took to respond please.
Thank you
Nicole says
Just under 5 weeks Lyn and then another 10 days to receiving the cheque
Lyn says
Thank you for answering Nicole, I am at 7 weeks currently with no response from Very apart from the initial acknowledgment, hopefully I will get an answer soon.
Laura says
Hi can anyone who has had an fos decision instructing capital one to pay redress tell me how long capital one took? And how they contacted you? Telephone/email/letter etc
Jax says
Hi, I contacted Capital One by email about 2 weeks after the adjudicator decision. They sent me a letter by post and a cheque for the redress amount. It all was concluded about 5 weeks after the adjudicator decision. Hope that helps.
Laura says
Thank you I have emailed them this morning (the complaints resolution email) so hopefully I hear something soon!
Laura says
Hi Jax, just wondering how long your capital one was open for, the credit limit and how much you got back? They won’t let me access my online account at all now so I can’t figure out how much they may be paying out, I haven’t yet received any communication from them either…:and I tried calling but got absolutely nowhere! Another week to wait it out and then can go back to fos for them to chase I guess. Thanks for your help
Jax says
Hi Laura. Account was opened in 2016. Credit limit was £1000 then increased to £2000. I got about £1800 back which is about the amount I calculated. I couldn’t access my online account either but calculated the interest from what I knew my balance was each month.
Dan says
Hi Sara,
Have a bunch of complaints with barclaycard, lloyds, amex, mbna etc but wanted to share today that Capital One upheld my complaint. This was a tiny CC £500 which they gave me after being in around £30k of debt. I asked for a refund on all the fees and charges and to clear the balance as I don’t think I should of had it at all.
They agreed and they’re clearing the balance and removing the default from my file.
Thanks, hopefully more to come
Sam says
Has anyone got much experience of PayPal credit?
They’ve rejected my affordability complaint saying they completed all the required checks but in the months leading up to them giving me an account with £3000 limit I had taken out 3 loans totalling over £30,000 and 3 new credit cards that were at the max. They didn’t ask anything about this sudden increase in borrowing.
Also they applied the default 18 months after going into a DMP when all my other creditors applied it as soon as I went into the DMP. They are refusing to change the date of the default. They had formally been told by StepChange that I was entering a DMP but It left it 18 months before defaulting me, is that normal?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They are always difficult. Send this case straight away to the Ombudsman. If you win the FOS case, the default and missed payment markers are removed, so you could decide not to bother about that at the moment.
Gary says
Hi Sara, I hope you’re well. I have a question for you and hope you can help. I’ve raised an irresponsible lending complaint with FOS and not quite sure what they are getting at with a question which is one of a set they’ve asked me. The lender rejected my complaint as it was raised more than six years since the lending took place. I’m arguing on the three year rule that I only raised my complaint this year as I only became aware when I read about this issue from your website.
This is the question they’ve asked:
When did you know you were struggling financially and/or to maintain your account?
I mean if I answer more than three years ago are they going to reject my complaint? I only became aware of the complaint this year but perhaps knew I was struggling financially for quite some time dating back over three years ago. But I’m concerned if I say that it’s going to be detrimental to my cause.
Please can you help me to understand how my answer might affect my complaint?
Thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what were the other questions?
Gary says
What prompted you to make a complaint and when did you become aware of a reason to make a complaint?
When did you realise the business may have done something wrong?
Why didn’t you complain earlier than you did and/or were there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from complaining sooner?
When did you know you were struggling financially and/or to maintain your account?
Please provide the month and year for the above questions even if it is an estimate.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then it is the answers together that matter, not one taken alone.
I suggest you say exactly what happened, giving rough dates, and a description . So this could look like (I made up much of this! don’t just copy it, say what happened to you!):
What prompted you to make a complaint and when did you become aware of a reason to make a complaint?
– you heard about payday loan affordability in late 2018 when you read an article about Wonga and made a complaint about QuickQuid. At the start of 2022 you found out an affordability argument could also be made abount credit cards if they had increased credit limits. At that point you realised that had happened with several of your cards.
When did you realise the business may have done something wrong?
– when you heard that a card lender should have checked for affordability when increasing credit limits. Up to that point, you had no idea that the lender should have made affordability checks so you didn’t realise you has a reason to complaint about the lack of checks. You had made complaints about PPI on cards because that was the only thing you thought you could complain about. If you had been aware of affordability complaints, you would have made them earlier.
Why didn’t you complain earlier than you did and/or were there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from complaining sooner?
– because I was unaware I has a cause for complaint
When did you know you were struggling financially and/or to maintain your account?
– I have been juggling my finances with payday loans and increasing other borrowing for many years.
Gary says
Hi Sara, thanks I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to provide me with this response. I’ve thought about what you’ve said and used this to help construct my own answers. I’ll let you know the outcome of FOS’ adjudicator in due course.
Elizabeth says
Hi Sara, I just wanted to say thank you for your site and for all your help and advice.
Unfortunately, I’ve had both my unaffordable lending claims against MBNA and Barclaycard rejected by the FOS.
MBNA because the ombudsman sided with them when they said had done checks before increasing my credit limit (despite me providing detailed customer notes which showed they hadn’t) and that the increases had occurred after the checks were made (even though the FOS also said there was no record of when the increases happened).
And Barclaycard because the ombudsman said it was out of time and that I should have been aware I could complain earlier (which doesn’t make much sense as they previously agreed to look at the MBNA claim, even though that was also out of time, and agreed I wasn’t aware of unaffordable lending complaints before!)
Anyway, thanks to the advice on your site, I have had a little luck in getting the MBNA debt written off by a DCA due to my ill health, so thank you for that!
Andy says
I believe that FOS maybe cracking down on the 6 year rule I had an adjudicator rule that I should have known as soon as I was in financial difficulty that I could complain. I pointed out that I was in financial difficulty prior to taking out the card I have won 2 cases for credit cards and said that when I put in the first complaint this was the point at which I became aware that I could complain and if I had known earlier then I would have complained earlier. I did not want to put in all 3 complaints at once due to fear of losing and the companies calling my debt in.
I said that I had read that I had 3 years from when became aware to submitt my complaint. She was having none of it and was rude and basically totally dismissive. Not interested in making contact. Now gone to ombudsmen for decision.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it was a mistake not to put all the complaints in at the same time. There is never any reason to delay with these.
But I hope the Ombudsman makes the right decision here.
Chloe says
Hi Sara
After the QQ thread I came across this one for catalogues credit cards etc. i had just paid off my very account with some of my redress from QQ and made an affordability complaint 6 weeks ago, today I received a cheque today for £850! I’m going to start my credit card ones now to see how I get on!
Jack says
So I finally had some movement with my NewDay complaint for 3 cards. I strongly believe 2 should never have been given and the limit on one shouldn’t have ever been increased like it was which is why it’s with the FOS!
On 20th July my adjudicator came back saying they had everything and would now come to a decision. Maybe I was being naieve but I thought I would have heard something by now? Any idea what current wait time is for a decision? They’ve had this complaint since April so well over the 90 days I was told it would take initially!
Thanks!
Ross says
Mine took a year to resolve so please don’t hold your breath!
Thomas says
Hi Sara
I’ve complained to FOS about a Tesco credit card. Was given 7.5k limit when I was only on 16k at the time. I run it up and now am complaining I shouldn’t have been given the access 6 years on
they have asked today What prompted you to complain about the irresponsible lending on your credit card now? If you didn’t know you could complain before, what made you realise you could complain now?
When did you become aware that Tesco may have been to blame for lending you the money? Please provide an approximate date if possible.
Would you have any recommendations on how I respond?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you say what happened to you. That you have complained now because you have only recently found out about these complaints, when you were told by a friend/saw an advert on Facebook/read an article in xxxx talking about them/whatever…
Add that it wasn’t until you found out about these complaints in [June 2022 or whenever] that you became aware a lender should have checked that a limit would be affordable for you to repay. point out you were given a huge limit for your salary and it has proved impossible for you to repay. Say you would have complained earlier if you had been aware you had a cause to complain.
turtle says
Well my journey with Barclaycard has ended. Approx 18 months from original complaint. It was delayed significantly because Barclaycard didn’t think the complaint could be looked at because of the 6 year rule so it had to wait for an ombudsman’s decision whether it was within their jurisdiction or not. Well it was and the complaint handler suggested a refund of all interest and charges + 8% (from when the balance of the credit card was zero) going back to the opening of the account which was 15 years ago. Barclaycard agreed with this and the refund is £10k+
Thanks Sara for a great website and all the help you give to strangers. Hopefully this gives some readers more belief that they can take on the banks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
10k – great result and thanks for sharing
Nadia J says
Congratulations to you! I too have had a payout from Barclays today of £12,924 – which has cleared the balance on Barclays, and another card as well.
Can I ask did you receive a breakdown of their calculation from Barclays?
Nadia says
And I can’t tell you how thankful I am to you Sara for such a fantastic website.
Life changing for us
BECKS MASH says
I’m still waiting for Barclays. £2520 overdraft. FOS told them they need to refund from March 2017. Barclays have now agreed with them but still waiting to hear from Barclays! Was yours a large loan/overdraft?
Laura says
Bit frustrated with NatWest! I had an fos decision upheld back in March 2022, they eventually paid out in may 2022 (against my debt as I still had a debt with them) but noticed they hadn’t included cash fees (of nearly a thousand pounds). Alerted NatWest and fos; since may it’s being going back and forth with fos (NatWest totally ignoring me!). I’ve now asked the fos to ask them to pay me the redress direct to me (cash/cheque) before I start to pay the remainder of the debt as I don’t believe they have any intention of paying up the cash fees…..
Jax says
MBNA disagreed with the adjudicator the week before last. The adjudicator emailed them (no idea what about) last week. They haven’t responded so he has emailed them again today and given them another week to reply. He will arrange for an ombudsman to look at the complaint if they don’t reply. In it for the long haul I think.
Laura says
Fingers crossed they decide to agree….even if they don’t I think 90% of ombudsman agree with adjudicator but it’s frustrating having to wait
Jax says
Thank you Laura. The positive thing is the longer they stall, the bigger the redress will be :) if its a positive outcome of course when the Ombudsman looks at it.
Laura says
Yeah that’s true. I’m still waiting for capital one to send me a letter 🫤 they have 5 days left!
Jax says
My Capital One complaint had to go to FOS. Took 12 months from the initial complaint but it went in my favour. Good luck 👍
Charlie says
I had an account with very catalogue between 2010-2016. It was paid off in full by 2018 to a debt collector. I wrote them an unaffordability complaint letter on the 16th of June this year and just received a letter confirming they will be refunding me £1997. I cannot emphasis enough Sara what a difference to peoples lives you have made by having this site and giving the advice you give. I am truly grateful. Thank you.
LC says
Hi Sarah, can you advise me on how to approach this response from FOS please? I had made a complaint to NewDay about affordability and of course they said my complaint wouldn’t be considered because its over 6 years old. I escalated this complaint to FOS and they’re pretty much siding with NewDay.
This is their response:
“Furthermore, as I’ve mentioned previously you haven’t provided me with any information to suggest why you didn’t make the complaint about irresponsible lending to NewDay Ltd at an earlier date.
We can look at a late complaint if exceptional circumstances were responsible for this. So, if there’s anything that might’ve stopped you complaining in time and you want me to consider this, please let me know.”
I was actually in labour and gave birth on the 29th July so of course I’ll be mentioning this, but I’m not sure what to say about missing the 6 year time frame?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when did you open the NewDay account?
did they increase your credit limits – when?
when did you make the complaint?
Lc says
Hi Sarah, I had taken out the agreement in 2015 and the increases started early 2016.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok do you know if there were any credit limit increases after the date in 2016 that was 6 years before you sent the complaint to the Ombudsman?
You can argue that earlier increases should also be refunded but its important to point out if some of the increases were within the last years.