Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing it too high.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable. This applies even if you made every payment on time, as you may have borrowed more elsewhere.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you have paid.
Contents
What is “affordable”?
The regulator’s rules
You may have made every payment on time, but the debt is still unaffordable.
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £400 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make checks before increasing a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills, normal expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable;
- you must be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a while, but not for a long time.
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments;
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, any of the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- making a minimum repayment but then using the card to pay for food or petrol so the balance never drops;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- significant gambling the lender was aware of (this could be gambling on your bank statement if the credit card lender was from the same bank);
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account or any others on your credit record;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has increased.
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact dates before you start your complaint – my template asks for the details.
0% balance transfers
Here the lender should check that you would be able to repay the whole limit within a manageable length of time (say 5 or 6 years) taking into account the interest that will be charged when the 0% term ends.
So if you were ok during the 0% term but then you couldn’t afford the payments when interest started being added, you can complain. Ask for any interest to be refunded and to be able to repay the rest with no interest.
How to complain
The email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when.
Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use for the banks and major lenders.
Template to use
I’ve invented some examples so you can see how a complaint should read. Change/delete the bits in italics to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444.
My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Only put this in if you think the lender may have an old address for you
I have moved and my home address is now xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Please do not send any letters to any older addresses on your system.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2018, you should have checked my credit record and would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
AND/OR say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2021. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2021.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
Think about these points before complaining
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than six years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at these “old” accounts if they have still been open within the last six years, although you may have problems producing bank statements or other evidence from a long while ago to show that a limit was unaffordable.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in the last six years, then those limit increases can definitely be looked at. And you can always get bank statements going back six years even from closed bank accounts.
A better approach for old defaulted accounts?
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner, this isn’t the lender’s fault. here you may still need help to get interest stopped on the cards – talk to StepChange or National Debtline.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
Here are some bad or irrelevant comments lenders sometimes make when rejecting a complaint:
- you had made all the payments to them on time – that doesn’t mean you could manage a higher limit;
- the account was opened over 6 years ago – if it was open in the last 6 years the Ombudsman may look at it;
- you accepted the limit increase – they still shouldn’t have offered it if it was unaffordable.
You know if this card or catalogue has caused you difficulty – it’s easy to send a case to the ombudsman. Don’t delay doing this!
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t. The lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some old credit reports, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. You can download a statutory TransUnion report for free.
Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief Order help you?
JLSB says
Goodafternoon,I have recently challenged HSBC bank about an account fee which they charged me since 2007, I have downgraded the account in 2019.They have now replied to me saying that i cant refund the money they have charged for having an advanced account because i used this account/card to withdraw money from cashpoint overseas while iam on holiday in 2007/2008 and used car break down service in 2016.Apart from that no other benefits from this account.I strongly believe i have signed up for advanced account to improve chances of gettting a loan from HSBC.Is it worthy to raise the dispute further with FCA.Please advise.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I strongly believe i have signed up for advanced account to improve chances of gettting a loan from HSBC
Were you told back in 2007 that getting this account would help you get a loan?
AC says
Hi Sara, sorry for piggy backing onto this thread but my experience is that NatWest told me that I would be more likely to be accepted for a loan with my ‘premium’ account.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And were you given a loan? At what interest rate?
Did you use the features of the premium account?
JLSB says
yes i believe
On the other note,i have down graded this account in 2009 and again up graded in 2011 for the same reason.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and did you apply for loans and were turned down? were you in your overdraft a lot at this time?
Complaining that the account fees were unreasonable may be tricky. You may only have used the breakdown cover one year, but you had the benefit of knowing you were covered for other years as well.
JLSB says
I was using a company car at the time of upgrade in 2011,took out a loan in 2014 and an overdraft in later months.Change of circumstances in 2015,change of job ,had my own car,only at that point I realised that there is a benefit of car breakdown cover on my account.Used only once until I downgraded the account in 2019.
Mel says
Has anyone had any experience with HSBC? Got a complaint in with them now, it’s been 7 weeks so guess they are going to drag this on until 8 weeks is up but just wondered what people’s experience is with them
Daniel says
Hi Sara , could you possibly help me with some refund calculations from littlewoods
So they have upheld my complaint and the refunds is as follows
Spent £8030 including buy pay later of which was £4851
Refund administrative fees £300
Adjustments £10869
Cheque refund £2833
My question is they obviously taken back the £8030 I owe them and refunded me the difference but the buy now pays laters we’re £4851 which had the interest added , so the interest in the £4851 figure is around £2600 so should that be refunded too ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is £8030 your current balance? Are they refunding all the interest and charges on the account from the begining?
Daniel says
Yes that’s my current balance, my balance is now £0 I don’t know what they are doing as iv had no communication from them just my online account has been adjusted
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well starting from the obvious, wiping a balance of 8k and sending you a cheque for a couple of thousand isn’t a dreadful offer!
Should it be more?
How long have you had the account? Do you know how much you have bought on it? And do you know the total of payments you have made to it?
A says
Hi Sara. Very had upheld my complaint. I did say the initial £2000 shouldn’t have been given as I’d only just finished paying a payment plan on a previous very account 12 months earlier. However they have only upheld my complaint from when the limit was raised from £2000 to £2500 (even though there was only a few months between opening the account and the raiae). My question is how do I check the redress as they’ve given me only £60 but I’ve no clue how it’s worked out. All they have said is they have upheld my complaint from when the account went over £2000. Also what happens with Buy Now Pay Later products? There is interest waiting to be added if I don’t pay them by a certain point
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so how long ago did the account got to 2500? do you know how much interest you have paid since then? Are you close to the 2500 limit now?
A says
They stated in the letter that they were upholding my complaint from 14th September 2019 but that was when I actually opened tje account. The raise from 2000 to 2500 was in April 2020. It was maxed out throughout the whole time and at one point was just under 3000 even though credit limit was 2500. I can only go back on statements for the last 12 months but each month the interest is between £20 and £50
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My guess is they are doing some complicated calculation saying that it’s ok to charge you interest on £2000 but not on the extra £500. This doesn’t sound reasonable to me. I suggest you go back to them and say unless they refund you all the interest you have paid since April 2020 and allow you to pay the balance off interest free, including the BNPLs, you will be sending the case to the Ombudsman and asking for a full refund from the start of the account.
Andrew says
Hi, I recently won a case against barclaycard. The adjudicator said after the repayment they will close my account. I have just logged into my account and can see they have refunded £5000 leaving me a shortfall of £2000. Does anyone know if Barclaycard will ask for immediate payment of this money? I will struggle to pay this in one go, but don’t want this to have any adverse affect on my credit file. Anyone been in a similar situation. Thanks Andy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have just logged into my account and can see they have refunded £5000 leaving me a shortfall of £2000.
First do you think a 5k refund is correct?
Andrew says
Yes I beleive so. I will do calculations, I was hoping to have some sort of breakdown from Barclays but have had no communication from them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok.
Well Barclaycard may well close your account, but they cannot ask you to repay the balance immediately and they should allow you to set up a monthly payment that is affordable and not add interest without this affecting your credit record.
I suggest you are proactive and contact Barclaycard and offer a reasonable amount each month and make the point about no interest and no negative marks on your credit record. It is better to have this discussion now, not wait until a problem has happened.
What are the rest of your finances like?
Andrew says
My finances are ok I am managing but simply do not have the 2000. Who would you suggest I talk to at barcleys as the only contact I had was my initial complaint. Do I simply talk to customer services?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They won’t expect you to. Go back to the complaints contact and say what you can afford to pay.
Tracy Sowerby says
Good morning Sara
Apologies for not being on correct thread but when I hit reply it just took me to the website and not directly to the conversation.
I have recently spoken to vanquis regarding irresponsible credit limits. Its been upheld and they have agreed to refund which is great.
However they say they will refund all interest after the first irresponsible limit of 500 and subsequent limits but go on to deduct interest on the first 500.
I’ve advised that the instruction was to refund the interest after the first 500 but nothing was said about refunding interest on the limit which wasn’t unfair but they say this is the correct way to calculate.
Given that I’m paying back a balance on the account which includes all interest payments, purchases in its entirety since the account start this surely cannot be correct?
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it isn’t right.
There are two possible right ways to do this.
1) The very simple one just refunds all the interest charged from the point the limit was raised irresponsibly.
2) the more complex one is for Vanquis to go back and work each month’s account so that you are only charged interest on the first £500 and the rest is interest free. The payments you made then need to be credited to the interest charging part of the debt, not the interest free part.
What Vanquis are doing is wrong because it is essentially saying that the payments you make reduce the interest free part first, not affecting the part that interest is charged on. That is against the FCAs rule CONC 6.7.4.
I suggest you go back to Vanquis and say this. Also go back to your adjudicator and say what Vanquis are going and why you think this is wrong.
Tracy Sowerby says
Hi Sara
I’ve spoken to vanquis and told them what you have said. After a lengthy discussion they said they would seek clarification from the ombudsman as to what exactly is asked of them. I went onto say I will forward the decision to them which states to simply refund all interest and charges after the first 500 limit and nothing more. There’s also a figure of 289.00 for simple interest which seems low. Any advice further advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you have to get the main refund sorted out first before looking at the 8%
Tracy Sowerby says
Good afternoon sara
I just seem to be going round in circles now with the adjudicator and vanquis.
I’m trying to point out that they shouldn’t be deducting interest in the redress they have calculated.
As far as the adjudicator is concerned because he has upheld the decision he has just said they let the business sort it out inline with their decision. He said to refund all interest over the 500 limit from April 2013 not deduct interest on the first. I’ve outlined what you have said about treating anything over 500 as interest free and reworking the account but I’m getting nowhere.
They have now said after emailing them further that they have noted my comments but feel like they are treating it as a separate complaint as they said they have 56 days to respond?!
How do I take it to the ombudsman if the adjudicator has upheld the decision? Thankyou in advance.
Bill says
I would like to share some information that may be of interest. In 2015 I was experiencing a number of difficulties including multiple payday lenders, loans, and two overdrafts. I was also gambling heavily. Nationwide Building Society allowed me to increase my overdraft from 0, to 500, to 2k, to 5k within the space of four months. One month later they removed the overdraft and put me on a repayment plan. Using information from this website, I complained to Nationwide at the end of 2018 saying they treated me badly and they should have never let me increase my overdraft in this way – they could see I was in trouble and not managing my money responsibly. My initial complaint fell on deaf ears and they refused to look at it. Nearly three years later I have had an outcome from the Financial Ombudsman who agreed with my assessment and told Nationwide to repay all fees and interest on my overdraft since 2015. It amounts to nearly 2k. I couldn’t have done it without the advice here. Although it has taken a very long time, my advice would be to not give up, and be very patient. It’s a great outcome for me and means I can draw a line under a very difficult period. As for Nationwide – I have to say they have been awful in accepting any sort of wrongdoing. My experience of their complaints process leaves a lot to be desired to say the least. Good luck everyone.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Thanks – a lot of people will be happy to read that.
Kate says
Hi, this is fantastic news.
I am in a similar situation, I have credit card debts from gambling and tsb gave me overdraft increases that amount to 4,500 even though they could clearly see I wasn’t managing my account responsibly and that I already had 18k debt, I made a complaint after I had been in touch with them asking for help, they refused me any help and treated me appallingly, they refused my complaint so I sent to FOS, 14 months on and I’m still awaiting an adjudicator, your post has give me some hope to continue with my complaint
Bill says
Good luck Kate. I’d more or less given up on it. At the start of October I was contacted by an adjudicator saying that they had looked at everything and agreed, and I got the settlement yesterday. It can change quickly. All you can do is wait for them to get round to it sadly. I was waiting from December 2018 until this month for the adjudication.
N says
Omg just for an adjudicator i have been waiting 15 months so far for overdraft complaint. I can’t believe its taken that long 😳
Daniel says
Hi Sara ,
I had my letter from littlewoods and very , they are upholding both complaints from 2012 and refund all interest and charges from that year . My limit on littlewoods was £9000 I was always at max limit and they have refunded £11,170 they wiped my £8600 balance and gave me a cheque for just under £3000 , with the very my limit was £7000 and again always at max limit , now they have upheld again from 2012 but only refund £943 I very confused as to how they’ve worked that out seeing as very charge more interest then littlewoods but yet there is a huge difference in refunds
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ask them for a list of how much you have paid in interest and charges on the Very account in each month since 2012.
Daniel says
I will ask for this thank you , but I know I paid far more interest on very then I did littlewoods, I found a few statements on my email
Lee says
Have they tried the proportional trick like they have with me. Only refunding interest over a certain amount due to a credit limit increase?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you complain about this, Lee? How is that going?
Lee says
Sara it’s been allocated to someone finally at the FOS in the last week. Who is now starting look at it. Said they will contact me in the next month with an update.
Tracy Sowerby says
Hi Sara
Hypothetically , if the principle interest being refunded of 5575 is correct, does 289 simple interest sound reasonable on a 500 limit from 2013.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is your current balance? what are they saying the interest being refunded comes to?
Tracy Sowerby says
The balance outstanding is 3574.53. They are refunding 5573.54.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then that doesn’t sound right.
Tracy Sowerby says
So if we go on the premise of 5573.54 principle do they then need to work out simple interest after reworking the monthly interest from April 2013 only on the 500, less the repayments? This I imagine would mean that the further on in time I would eventually clear the balance and quite quickly ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have no idea how FOS would suggest 8% is calculated in that scenario.
Louise says
Has anyone had a successful claim against creation finance credit card. I put a complaint in over 8 weeks ago and no response contacted them yesterday and they said that they need longer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
tell them the complaint goes to the Finacial Ombudsman in a week. the danger is they will string you along for a month or two and then reject your complaint so it has to go to FOS anyway!
Lee says
Sara I had a creation financial store card with USC for many years. The debt was sold to Lowell’s about 1 year ago without letting me know. I have just finished paying it off as Lowell’s gave me a discount and froze interest. Am I able to make a claim to USC creation storecard at all. Limit was £1250 was struggling to pay it off due to all my debt gambling etc. Had it from around 2014/2015.
Wondering now if worth trying to get that one in didn’t think about this one at all?
Interest was about £35 every month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So questions.
1. Did they increase the limit to that or was it that from the start?
2. Did you only ever pay the minimum, or did you sometimes clear it down?
3. Had you missed a lot of payments or made an arrangement with them before it was sold?
Lee says
Limit I think was increased only once.
Only paid minimum payments have it for 5/6 years at least
I had missed a number of payments bern in touch ro ask them to freeze interest / help. But have little evidence or dates of the calls on this one.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So yes you can make a complaint now to USC. Say they should not have increased your credit limt. Ask for a refund of all interest added after that point. And say they should also have frozen interest and chrges when you toldthem you were in trouble, Ask for the default to be removed from your credit record.
Rasheeda says
Hi Sara.
I opened account with argos in 2004 and the credit limit was few hundred pounds but time to time they increase my credit limit even though they know that I am making minimum payment and my income was the same.Now the limit is nearly 3000 still making minimum payment. Same thing happened with barclaycard.creation.and mbna.what should I do now.My payments are nearly 450 and my wages are 550 because I am a carer of my disabled child and I am using my carer allowance to pay of my debts wh are not coming down instead growing up.i am making minimum payments from15 to 20 years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I ask what the current balances add up to, roughly?
Do you have any other debts – any loans? Overdraft? Behind with rent, council tax or other important bills?
Are you a single parent?
Rasheeda says
I checked my credit report I opened barclaycard with few hundred pounds in 2008 and the current balance is 5600 and argos current balance is 1900 and creation balance is 2300 mbna just increase my limit last year from 1400 to 2500 even though know very well that I am making minimum payment.
I am not single parent but my husband does not have any idea about my debts.I opened very account in2014 and that increased my limit after that even though I was not able to make buy now pay later on time sometimes I have to use my credit card to pay BNPL.
My husband is paying mortgage and Bill’s and they are up to date.
the limit for very account is 3000 and balance is 1000 and barclaycard increased my limit 11to12000 but after that they decreased it to 9000 then 7000then 6700.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is your name on the mortgage?
Rasheeda says
Hi Sara
No my name is not on the mortgage
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you have two options. But for eiother of these you really should tell your husband what is happening…
1) you can make affordability complaints to all the lenders. Use the template in the article above. But these will take a long while – you need to expect many of the will be rejected or get a poor offer so they have to go to the Ombudsman. This will take many months, possibly over a year. So if you choose this options your HAVE to get your self into a safe place while the complaints go through. read https://debtcamel.co.uk/token-payment-debt/ and offer them all £5 a month.
2) look at whether you can be accepted for a Debt Relief Order now. If this works the debts will be cleared. And here ther is little point in going through the 6-18 month paid of making a lot of individual complaints. Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this op[tion – see if they think you will qualify as your only income is from benefits.
National Debtline can also talk to you about the token payments while you complain option. So if you aren’t sure, talk to them.
Rasheeda says
Hi
Sara I am already talking to them about payment plan but I wan t to know can I claim refunds from them because all these crediters increased my limit without knocking my income and my accounts are open with all crediters.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can if the limits were increased to an unaffordable level. Which it sounds like.
BUT
a) you need to TELL the creditors how much you can afford each month and start paying that. You are not asking their permission, you have to do this.
b) do yourself a big favour and also talk to National Debtline about your options. Because you gave a mountain of debt a DRO may be a better – quicker, less stressful, more certain – way forward if you are Eligible.
National Debtline can also help you work out a budget to show creditors that will prove why you are offering each of them that lower payment.
PJ says
Hi. I had an affordability complaint in for a credit card with marbles/newday. An adjudicator agreed and sent their findings to newday saying they should refund all interest and remove all derogatory marks from my credit file. Newday disagreed and so it has went to the ombudsman for review. Do you know how long this process should take and does the ombudsman usually agree with the adjudicator? Thanks
H says
From experience…..1 year pls 😢
Natalie says
So I had mine looked at and the adjudicator said the same , Newday came back very quickly and refused this finding so it went to the ombudsman. This has now been reviewed by the ombudsman and I received a response within 5 weeks. Once again they have said that Newday should not have given me credit increases and should remove all of the negative information from my credit file. Newday have till the 10th November to respond.
The process in total has taken 15 months from first contacting Newday to now.
Mel says
Hi Sara, just a general question based on a discussion I had with investigator for my everyday loans claim. They said that with respect to all the debt I had at the time of lending if it was taken into account by EL but I had said that I would pay some of it off with the loan in my application – and obviously I didn’t pay all of it off, how does that stand in the context of a irresponsible lending complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
would the loan have been affordable if you did?
was there a reason why you didn’t?
Mel says
I don’t believe so, and I spent it reconciling other debts. I originally requested a lesser figure around £6k but they upped their offer to £10K so pay off additional debts – I accepted, but was desperate and didn’t comprehend that the loan was much higher % than the credit cards!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then that is the point you need to make to the FOS investigator.
Ross says
Well, I’ve had some good news (and not so good) about my Marbles complaint. The good news is that it’s, finally, been picked up by an investigator. The not so good news is that she’s had to go back to Newday, for clarification on some of the information they’ve provided. They have told her that this could take up to SEVEN WEEKS! I’m sure this shouldn’t be really acceptable, although I suppose I just have to wait for Newday to send the info. Rather frustrating.
Ross says
Hi Sara,
Further to what I have already put, above, the investigator has now come back to me to confirm what the issue is, with Newday. She states that Newday are stating that my complaint is ‘out of time’ and she has gone back to them to ask why they feel is the case and that she has had to put the case on hold, until they respond.
The main point, I have gone back with, is that I know the account was opened in the latter half of 2015 and I complained in early 2021. Therefore, I believe that the case doesn’t fall foul of the 6 year rule. The only other thing I can think of is if they are saying thar I should have known more than 3 years ago, that I had cause to complain.
Nevertheless, Newday made no reference to any time barring, in their final response letter. As a result, I believe they may have shot themselves in the foot, by not stating any of this in the said response.
Any thoughts please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What date did the complaint go to FOS?
Did Newday increase your credit limit at all?
If you “pass” the 6 year test, the “within 3 years” test is not used – that is on;y relevant if you are complaining about something that happened more than 6 years ago.
Ross says
The limit was increased several times and part of my argument is that the Aqua Card, I’d had with them (and the way it was ran) should’ve made them realise that the Marbles card shouldn’t have been opened. This is coupled with the default, on my credit report, lots of high cost short term lending, a VERY high amount of existing credit, at the time, and lots of gambling, which would’ve shown as I used the Aqua card for cash advances & online gambling.
Ps, complaint went to the FOS in June, straight after they sent their final response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, so even if you opened the account before June 2015, then the later credit increases will be within the 6 year period. It doesn’t sound like there is much to worry about here.
Dave R says
Still seems to be a huge wait at the FOS for adjudicators on Overdraft complaints. Was told 3 months ago I’d have an update “within 3 months” on my Lloyds overdraft complaint… still nothing…Coming up to a year since I submitted the complaint. Appreciate some have been waiting even longer!
Has anybody had any movement on this? I remember a few people in a similar boat with overdraft complaints…
N says
Me too still waiting for an adjudicator i submitted last august! Had the email in july same as you within 3 months and im still waiting.
Samantha says
Hi, I have a vanquis credit card since 2017, I did start with a limit of £500 this limit quickly increased to 4k, at the time I was a student and couldn’t afford the limit increase since then I have had a loan to the pay off the debt, I’m still paying the loan that I got to clear the card, now I have the loan and the card to pay! I cannot and could not afford to have the credit increase as I was a student and used the cards again the keep living and paying my normal bills, I’m not in debt with my normal bills, I asked vanquis to freeze the card during covid since working part time, the second freeze I asked for they didn’t actually freeze so I had £800 charges to pay to keep my balance within the 4k, I had to work away from home for 2 weeks to pay the £800 as I could see this quickly escalating, since then the balance has not come down as it was all charges and I’ve used it again to pay for things like food or petrol as the money I had paid the card, I should have never been given the increase in the first place! How do I complain and would I be in a position to reclaim any charges?? I have cleared the balance afew times by getting other loans or borrowing money or paying with my student allowance, but keep using it to live off as I couldn’t afford the increase in the first place!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read the article above and make a claim saying you should never have been given such large credit increases as a student.
Put the points you have made in the comment here into your claim.
Also look into whether the loans you were given were affordable – you may be able to complain about them too.
Ally says
Hi Sara.
I’m slowly having some small successes after many months of waiting for FOS to investigate my complaint.
I’ve been back & forth with HSBC with an affordability complaint for a C/C. The investigator agreed that HSBC didn’t do their due diligence to check affordability and has suggested a refund of interest/charges, any adverse credit is revoked (this is the biggy – as it’s a CCJ), and compensation of £150.
Of the above, I am most interested in the CCJ.
HSBC have until 11 Nov to respond.
If they don’t agree, presume this goes to an Ombudsman.
As I haven’t reached this step – I don’t know how long or how likely it is to go in my favour?
Any advice welcome?
Ps. I am already over the moon to have got this far. Fingers crossed! And thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If HSBC reject the decision it goes to the Ombudsman. If they just don’t reply, the adjudicator normally gives them another couple of weeks.
If it goes to an Ombudsman, in a large majority of cases the Ombudsman reaches the same decision. But it’s very case by case, it is a separate investigation, not a quick review. And it can take months waiting in the Ombudsman queue.
Ally says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for this information.
Just out of curiosity – have you heard of any recent ombudsman disputes against HSBC where a consumer has won?
Secondly, due to the CCJ I am now fixed to a higher interest rate mortgage. With this ccj removed, I can’t do anything about the mortgage interest rate still. The exit fee for leaving is the same as the saving if I switched mortgages. So I would be no better off.
Over 5 yrs it’s approx £7k more than a high st mortgage. (I checked with my broker) I have no other adverse credit. So my score would otherwise be perfect without the ccj.
I’m sure they wouldn’t agree to compensation to cover this £7k, but do you think it’s worth mentioning this to the investigator?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Here is one where a customer won a complaint about an HSBC overdraft https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/314224/DRN-2923576.pdf
Here is one relating to increases ion bith an overdraft and a credit card https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/308126/DRN-2815836.pdf
No I don’t think it is worth mentioning your high cost mortgage fix.
Andrew says
Hi all thought would give you a update
Barclaycard dismissed by barclays, adjudicator and ombudsman agreed wiped 1100 off balance 600 remaining
Then new day (marbles and aqua) adj deemed increases on marbles from May 16 unjust and refund interest from that point, marbles disagreed ombudsman has agreed with adj
Aqua adj agreed increase from Jan 2017 unjust, aqua disagreed and ombudsman actually increased the award saying the aqua card should never have been issued and to refund whole interest which will wipe the whole balance and give me some back
Quick question Sara so on the marbles card if the limit was OK how do I calculate interest I know it will be rough
So on my statement interest is –
May 16 46.50
June 16 44.88
July 52.97
Aug 55.07
Do I take the May figure as the constant amount of interest and word out the difference between the later interest figures and that’s what my refund is calculated and that comes off the figure (I still owe marbles 3 grand)
Sorry if not explained properly
Thanks for all your advice couldn’t have done it without this site
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have marbles come back with a number or are you just anticipating this?
Andrew says
Sara
No they haven’t come back yet only just got the ombudsman decision
So with the aqua I have added up all the interest applied and it wipes the balance clear
But because Marbles was only upheld from the initial interest I was wondering what likely to be so do you if say it was 50 quid a month interest and then went up to say 80 a month once you spent extra on the card you take the difference ie 30 quid monthly until the account was closed is that right ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/comment-page-27/#comment-449121 which looks at a case where there is a dispute about how Vanquis are calculation a refund in what sounds like a similar situation.
What you are saying sounds like what Vanquis are doing but I think it is wrong, for the reasons I gave in reply to Tracy.
I think Tracy has now asked FOS to look at her situation again. At the moment I suggest you just wait and see what they come back with and then come back here – with any luck Tracy may have an answer by that point.
Andrew says
Thanks Sara
Has Tracey had a reply yet, I must admit I have always trusted how refunds are calculated but it makes me wonder how they do it
By sounds of it the Fos just leave it to the company to apply their own interpretation on how to settle the redress
Sara (Debt Camel) says
not yet…
Andrew says
Guess will just have to wait until New Day cpme back at end of month i have all the statements just wanted to work out whether i will still owe them anything
Rasheeda says
Rasheeda
Hi Sara
I am trying to make a repayment plan with barclaycard meanwhile they sent me a letter with a refund of £36.00 and said we do oplogise for increasing my limit without checking affordability but my balance is 5600 at the moment after increasing my limit from few hundred pounds to 11 or 10000 but start de creasing the limit after couple of months or years i can’t really remember. I didn’t make a claim about refund.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So as I said to you last month, you can make claims that they increased your credit limits too high.
BUT it sounds unlikely that refunds would clear most of your debt. You have a huge mountain of debt and little prospect of repaying it even if interest is frozen and you get some refunds.
You could spend 6-18 stressful months and win a few claims but still not be able to repay your debts in a reasonable time.
SO I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your options.
Also you should not be “trying to make a repayment plan” – you need to be TELLING Barclaycard and all your other creditors what you can afford, even if that is only £5 a month and then start paying them that. Don’t let yourself get pushed into paying more than you can afford. National Debtline can help with this too.
Dana says
Hi Sara,
First of all thanks so much for this website, I have had so much success getting refunds from payday loans and large loans due to irresponsible lending, thanks to this website. I am no longer up to my eyeballs in debt which is honestly such a nice feeling.
My one last target however is NewDay, they gave me an aqua card for £250 in 2015 and over the course of 3 years that rose to £2500, despite me being in the middle of my payday loan trap. They then also gave me an Amazon card in 2018 with a balance of £900.
I’ve complained to NewDay, they didn’t agree I had a case, I then went to FOS, which I thought was in the bag because the irresponsible lending was right there, and he has come back saying he sees no evidence of irresponsible lending, which baffles me as I sent the same bank statements I sent for the payday loan complaints.
Is it worth asking to go to the next step to the Ombudsman?
The investigator said NewDay rely on the information I provide and don’t do proper credit checks so they did everything right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They don’t have to make many chacks when only giving a card with a limit of £250. But those were large credit limit increases…
So questions looking for points you could make to the adjudicator. Were you only making minimum payments to the Aqua card? Did the Aqua card have a high balance when you applied for the Amazon card?
Dana says
Hi Sara,
Yes minimum payments have pretty much all I’ve paid since opening this account, so the limit increases and Amazon card were done whilst I was at the max of my limit whilst making minimal payments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you should go back to your adjudicator and make those points. Point out that CONC 5.2A.6 says “If an increase in the amount of credit or in the credit limit is not itself significant but would result in there having been, since the last creditworthiness assessment, a cumulative increase that is significant, then a further creditworthiness assessment is required.”
Ask the adjudicator to look again at your case and send it to an Ombudsman if they don’t change their mind.
Dana says
Thanks Sara! I’ve replied pointing this out and quoting the CONC article. I’ll keep you updated.
Lynn says
Hi Dana,
I’m in the exact same position as you at the moment. I went back to the investigator and said I disagreed with his findings and I have asked for it to be passed to the ombudsman. My credit limit was £300 in jan 2015 and by March 17 the limit was £4750. Amigo loan taking out in between the increases several payday loans a marbles card (same company as new day) servers increases on that, 3 other credit cards all taken out during the increases as well. I have just been asked for additional information as the ombudsman is looking at it just now. I will post the outcome for you when I receive it.
Lynn says
Hi Sara,
Wondering if you could help. I replied to Dana yesterday with my situation at the fos, the ombudsman has passed the New Day case back to the investigator as Cabot have a ccj for the outstanding debt.
The investigator has came back to me this morning and advised they may not be able to look at the complaint at all now because of the ccj.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back to your adjudicator and say the CCJ was from Cabot, but your complaint about unaffordable lending is against Newday, so you want FOS to consider this.
Lynn says
Hi, he has now came back to me and asked why I did not raise an affordability as part of my defence in court. I never attended court so I’m unsure what to write back to him also this was back in 2019 and I didn’t know you could use affordability as a defence or even that you could raise affordability complaints to companies.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply and say you did not defend the case, judgment was given in default. Add that you were unaware that you could make an affordability complaint at that time, which is why you only made the complaint to Newday this/last year. Say you are not even sure now whether you could defend a claim brought by Cabot on the grounds of unaffordable lending by Newday as you haven’t heard of anyone doing this.
Lynn says
Hi Sara,
The fos have came back and told me they can’t look at the case because of the ccj.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That isn’t right.
Go back and say you would like this looked at by an Ombudsman.
Lynn says
Hi,
I had a look over the court paperwork and it did say I was able to defend myself I’ve explained to the investigator that I wasn’t aware unaffordable lending was a defence at the time and I also didn’t have the money to defend either I was financially crippled. He had just came back and said Thank you for your response. I’m very sorry that our service can’t assist here. Even if I agree with you that NewDay lent to you irresponsibly, our service can’t overturn a court decision. Therefore, this may be something you might want to consider going to court for, as it’s inapproriate for our service to now look into.
I have copied and pasted the conclusions from the original email.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No this isn’t right. A LOT of people have had affordability refunds from a lender when there is a CCJ from a debt collector. Ask for the decision to go to an Ombudsman.
Lynn says
He has came back to me and said –
This is something that a solicitor will be able to assist you with, as it doesn’t fall within the scope of the financial ombudsman service.
Alex says
Hi,
I thought I would leave an update regarding my complaint made to HSBC regarding my overdraft charges for two of my accounts, hopefully others will find this useful.
I complained to HSBC in January 2020, they rejected my complaint within two days, and I sent it to the FOS. I was contacted to inform me that there was an extended delay dealing with cases and I should expect a long wait.
I finally received a response from the Adjudicator on 22nd October 2021 stating that they were upholding my complaint and they have given HSBC two weeks to respond. Exactly two weeks later 5th November, the Adjudicator contacted me to say that HSBC had accepted the Adjudicators decision and recommendations. He said that HSBC will contact me directly to arrange the refund as per his instructions. The outcome was that HSBC should refund all interest and charges from 15th July 2015, including 8% interest.
I’m just patiently waiting now for HSBC to complete their calculations and hopefully this comes back correct. I’m curious to know how they calculate the interest rate as all the charges are staggered over different dates and will it be refunded in one lot or separately for each account? Also how long it will take them to do this, I hope they do not drag their feet, and contact me soon!
The charges totalled £6878.77 (£3680.95 & £3197.82) as of Jan 2020, this does not include additional charges incurred since sending the complaint and today.
Alex says
To put some context, here is an extract of the complaint I made:
Account number: (00-00-00 00000000) and (00-00-00 000000000)
I am writing to request that you repay all the charges in relation to unauthorised overdrafts that have been applied to my account in the past six years.
• Over the last few years it is a regular occurrence for payments to be returned to my accounts due to lack of funds. However, there are numerous occasions where HSBC authorised these to be taken which placed me over my arranged overdraft limit.
• For the vast majority of the last six years I have been heavily using and relying on my overdraft. I have attempted to improve my situation myself by significantly reducing my overdraft allowance. However, I feel that HSBC could have done more to help.
• During the period of charges, I have frequently exceeded my overdraft limit. Several of the situations have been as a direct result of HSBC taking their overdraft charge. I have been in a desperate situation over the last few years but feel that HSBC could have done a lot more to prevent me going over my arranged overdraft limit.
• Incurring these charges and being so easily able to exceed my overdraft limits during financial hardship has placed me in a continuous cycle of relying on my overdrafts, paying fees, taking out ‘payday loans’ to cover fees and resorting to gambling to try to win money to cover my everyday bills.
Mel says
Hi Alex, this could be literally my complaint. I was the same as you, gambling- taking Pd loans to stay within limit, constantly in overdraft and HSBC allows transactions up to £3100 of a £2500 OD – it wasn’t ‘normal’ behaviour for my account and I was then allowed a CC which I hit limit within a month, a couple of months later a loan was issued which I later defaulted on. I take responsibility for my actions but I don’t think HSBC did enough, they would send me a letter to say they recommend paying £1000 of my OD in the next month, like of course I have the funds to be able to do that !!!
The lady at FOS I spoke to took my case on so I am 2 weeks waiting for HSBC to send my file to her
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well done!
You say 2 of your accounts. Did you have others? How many of the accounts have current balances?
Alex says
I just hold the two accounts with them. One is a joint account with my wife which we pay household bills from, and the other is my own account which my wages go to and I use for everyday expenses.
I’m still in a bit of a mess with these and both are still maxed out in the overdrafts (and incurring charges).
I managed to reduce the total overdraft limit myself from £5000 to £1000 (£500 on each account). The adjudicator has instructed HSBC to clear this overdraft balance and pay me the remaining amount.
This is what I asked of them in my initial complaint as any redress would ultimately be used to clear the debt.
Hopefully, if I receive over £4000 I will be totally debt free for the first time in 11 years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I would expect the refund to first be used to clear those balances.
The 8% is complicated as it is really worked out separately on each payment you made that is being refunded.
Laura says
Hi Alex, I have also had my case upheld with the adjudicator against hsbc for my overdraft. How long did they take to come back to you with calculations and how long did they take to pay you?
Mike says
I’ve just had the ombudsman’s final decision back in which theyve not upheld my complaint, in their response they’ve commented that because Of large payments (5k, 7k 11k) to the account, it was right for Barclaycard to assume that it was affordable, despite me telling the Investigator that the payments where from taking out more lines of credit, in which I evidenced. Am I able to go back to the ombudsman to ensure they have considered that the payments where in fact loan payments and not from savings/friends/family.
On a different note, I looked up the ombudsman who responded and they previously worked for Barclay’s, I would of assumed that an ombudsman couldn’t investigate a complain for an organisation they used to work for.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Am I able to go back to the ombudsman to ensure they have considered that the payments where in fact loan payments and not from savings/friends/family.
You can ask, but if this was a Final decision then that is that. If you can go back and make points, the issue is that that should have seen from y=from your credit record that your overall debt level were going up.
I would of assumed that an ombudsman couldn’t investigate a complain for an organisation they used to work for.
I don’t think that is a rule. And I don’t think it should be. It helps FOS to have people who have previously worked in the sector.
Sabrina says
Hello everyone
I have just had my Newday complaint partially upheld by the FOS. Newday had issued me with an aqua card, opus card and a loan and the ombudsman ruled that certain increases should not have taken place.
From anyones experience with Newday, how long do the interest refunds take?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When you get the email with the amount of the refund, come back here if you think it sounds low… some card companies are doing some odd calculations in this situation.
Paul says
Hi,
Sorry to ask but I to filed a complaint with Financial Ombudsman about Newday. This was in May 2021 but I’m still waiting in the queue.
How long did you wait for the Ombudsman to pick up your case?
Thanks
Sabrina says
I filed my complaint in November 2020. It was picked up by the ombudsman adjudicator in June, they ruled partially in my favour but new day declined this. It was then sent to the ombudsman for final review in September and they have come back at the end of October and they agreed with the adjudicators findings. I’m just waiting for the interest calculations from Newday now.
Paul says
Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
Paul
Lee says
Paul. Phone up the ombudsman with your reference number for complaint and ask them, as I’ve submitted complaints in late August that I’ve just settle with Avant. My New Day compliant sent in late August to FOS also with a case handler who called me a month ago about my case and is in the process of now writing up her findings to share with new day.
They are open on Saturday morning and have waited on phone and spoken to them 3 times in last 2 months about other case updates. Ask for it to be assigned to someone asap as you know others have been assigned who complained after you and want to be treated as a priority case now due to length of time you have already waited.
Good luck.
Paul says
Hi,
Thanks for the advice I will get on it.
Paul
Mary says
Hi, does anyone have an email address for Very?
Michelle says
You can’t email them have to write to them
Lee says
Write to them. Do not be tricked by them that you must lodge your complaint over the phone. I have the address will find it and post it on here later for you as was a nightmare to obtain.
Bc says
Hi Sarah,
Can you advise please, had a response back today from the adjudicator assigned for my Vanquis affordability complaint sent on 24th June 2021, I had to advise why they should look at over the 6 year’s, it was opened in march 2014 with £500 limit which within 18 months had 4 increases to the maximum £4000 and has been on minimum payments made since then, the adjudicator has given them till 24th November 2021 to re look at the complainant other wise it will be passed to the ombudsman, does this mean that it’s been upheld, as it doesn’t seem to confirm this in the email. Thanks in advance for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds to me as though this is just a “jurisdiction” decision at the moment – Vanquis has objected to FOS looking at your complaint, the adjudicator thinks they should, if Vanquis again says No it will have to be looked at by an Ombudsman. If that’s right, no one has yet looked at how good the complaint is.
Bc says
Had an update today from the adjudicator, Vanquis have agreed that the over 6 year’s can be looked into, so he will now begin the investigation process, and hopefully he’ll be able to advise in the next few weeks, however once completed if either myself or Vanquis do not agree with the outcome it can be passed to the ombudsman for a final decision, should it go my way and Vanquis agree then hopefully would be early January, otherwise it could be a much longer wait.
Paul says
If you add on the 18 months to when the account was opened then part of your complaint was still within the time frame when you made your complaint depending on when the increases were
Lee says
Be careful with New Day. My marbles refund that had £500 balance refunded around £1530 on all interest paid including cash advance fees and over limit charges but no 8% resulting in a credit.
My aqua card the card I actually complained about they proportionality upheld – but only refunded me about £1100 (even though my credit limit was £4200 and 9 times bigger than the marbles credit limit at its highest. For the past 5 years it had been maxed out each month with 83 cash advances once paying minimums each month, as struggling that much with debt.
I had lots of evidence (after requesting SOA at time of initial compliant) of me in December 2014 saying I was struggling. Evidence of going over my limit 6 times before further credit limit increases.
The adjudicator phoned me last month to ask me a few extra bits of info on my claim. She indicated I had a very strong case and been short changed, but needed to look at time limit rules to check how far she can go back etc
I reckon from my calculations they need to refund me about around another £4,500 which would mean the current outstanding balance would be cleared in full and I would have about a 2k refund. (Resulting in a refund from new Day of around 7k in total rather than about £2,600).
Michelle says
Hi Sara ,
Hope you can help me , I won my complaint against very and they upheld it from January 2017 , the refunds cleared most of my debt with them leaving me £746 left to pay , because I have had 3 payments plans before during the time my account has been open they are refusing to set a plan up to clear the balance for me , it’s in arrears at £400 ish ( I stopped paying while waiting for me compliant to be resolved ) they said the only option is to go to step change , I feel this is unnecessary as this is my only debt left , the lady said if I don’t pay all arrears by the 28th of this month I am AT RISK ( used this phase Many times in our conversation) at getting a section 87 default notice , can they give me a default notice if I won a affordability complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I won my complaint against very and they upheld it from January 2017
this was direct from Very? not via the Ombudsman?
How much can you afford to pay each month? Have they removed the previous payment arrangement markers?
Michelle says
Yes direct from very and the have removed all previous markers on my file , I can afford around £30-£50 a month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you tell them if they don’t agree to that payment plan and agree not mark your credit record you will take your complaint to the Finacial Ombudsman.
Sally says
Hello
I complained to the FO regarding barclaycard increasing my limit and as a consequence my complaint was looked by an investigator that he not upholding my complaint. The following were looked at
Firstly, terms and conditions of the account to assess if increasing the limit was permitted.
Secondly,how Barclaycard communicated those limit increases to you, as well as how I responded.
Did Barclaycard complete reasonable and proportionate checks to satisfy itself that you would be able to repay any credit in a sustainable way.
He felt that Barclays have done nothing wrong here based on the available evidence
Is it worth going to the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What the limit before, what was it raised to?
When it was raised, had you only been making minimum payments for a while?
Why do you think it shouldn’t have been increased?
Sally says
Hello
From 9k in June 2016 to 11k and then a further increase in jan 2017 £15700. I’ve always been on the limit since
Ive always paid the min as I have had a debt problem. I had around 18k to £21k of debt at the time of increases. By increasing my debt this was a lifeline to hide away from the constant mount of debt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I had around 18k to £21k of debt at the time of increases.
This was other debt, or including the Barclaycard debt?
What was your income a month after tax (roughly) at this time?
I think the second increase in particular was very large. If you had only ever paid the minimum amounts, I think they should have looked closely at whether this was really affordable for you
Sally says
Apparently they looked at my income via the following methods:
“Barclaycard have told me that at that time of the increase, the credit agency verified your income, based on recent credit applications made by you.
I can see that Barclaycard took the credit agency data and applied proportionate checks on affordability. Again, using the information from your credit file and their own account data, Barclaycard looked at the sustainability of the debt to see if you could afford to repay it over a reasonable period.”
I don’t agree with this approach.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t like the approach either. But you won’t win a FOS case by saying that, you need to be clear about why it was wrong in your case and what should have warned Barclaycard to look more closely.
Let me give an extreme example, it is nothing like your case but it shows what it is reasonable for a lender to think about.
Suppose you earned 70k a year and had only developed a major gambling habit in the few weeks before your application but no gambling showed on your credit card. A credit limit increase may look perfectly affordable to a lender, even though if they had, say, looked at your bank statement they would have seen the gambling and declined any more credit. FOS won’t say the lender was at fault here, there was nothing to warn the lender to look in more detail.
You have identified one thing – only making minimum payments – which was a warning. because of this I think you should go back to the investigato and ask them to look again, saying Barclaycard should not have given you such a large limit when you were only making minimum payments.
but it’s worth looking for additional points you can make.
I asked if the “18k to £21k of debt at the time of increases” included the Barclaycard debt – if it didnt, then you should also point out the large amount of other debt that was showing on your credit record.
What was your income a month after tax (roughly) at this time? if this wasn’t high, you can point out the large amount of debt compared to your income.
Were you in an overdraft for most or all of the month – that is another warning sign.
Ross says
Hi Sally,
Sorry to chip in but, Sara makes some good points here. I have just recently had an adjudication, in my favour, against 118118. Whilst my salary was good, my debt situation wasn’t. The adjudicator made a point of saying that he could see I had a large amount of unsecured debt, including numerous loans, and the fact that I persistently lived in my overdraft. He stated that this should’ve sounded alarm bells, when considering me for the loans, and deemed them all unaffordable/unsustainable. Whilst I am still waiting for them to agree, or disagree (deadline is tomorrow) I thought it might help you realise there’s another way of putting this, which may help your case?
Sally says
Dear both
I complete agree with your points and I’m incredibly grateful for your time here. The points made are valid and I’m taking this forward
Sally says
Hi there
I was re reading the investigators letter and whilst I was in an overdraft Barclaycard wholly relied on info contained in my credit file and took no independent assessment.
In addition, given I was within my credit limit before the increase they saw no issues but failed to note I was only paying min payments.
Sally says
Apparently they looked at my income via the following methods:
“Barclaycard have told me that at that time of the increase, the credit agency verified your income, based on recent credit applications made by you.
I can see that Barclaycard took the credit agency data and applied proportionate checks on affordability. Again, using the information from your credit file and their own account data, Barclaycard looked at the sustainability of the debt to see if you could afford to repay it over a reasonable period.”
I don’t agree with this approach.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As I said before, you won’t win a FOS case by saying that, you need to be clear about why it was wrong in your case and what should have warned Barclaycard to look more closely.
Anyway, if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind, you ask for the case to go to an Ombudsman.
kate says
Hi, i first sent an affordability complaint to TSB back in October 2020, they declined my complaint so i sent it to the fos, i have just recently been assigned an adjudicator and he has upheld my complaint, ordering tsb to pay back all interest and charges put on my account since they first started increasing my overdraft limit, they have 2 weeks to reply. I have worked out that they owe me roughly 2.5K in charges and interest, but this figure also includes the past year since i sent my complaint, does anyone know if they will include the ongoing charges the banks have made since i put forward my complaint? i am still getting charged over £100 per month on interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
From what you have said, yes this should include the current charges.
Will this refund be enough to clear the overdraft?
kate says
Hi Sara,
if my workings out are correct after the refund is paid i will have just £400 left outstanding as of 30th november (the date they have until they need to make a final decision) the fos has also said that if a balance remains they should offer me a payment plan, but i should be able to pay the outstanding balance off in full the following week, im guessing tsb should allow me a week to do this before arranging a payment plan, as i dont want anything to hurt my credit score that ive been doing so well to maintain recently
Sara (Debt Camel) says
TSB should allow a reasonable payment plan and for it not to affect your credit record. But it will be great to clear it!
Lee says
Hi Sara, do you or anyone know the email address or complaint address for a Creation USC storecard?
Thanks in advance.
Lee
Ross says
Just an update, on my Newday complaint. After (incorrectly) telling the FOS that my complaint had fallen foul of the ‘out of time’ rule, they have now advised that my complaint DOES fall within the timescales. As such, the FOS have now confirmed that my case is being investigated but Newday have still insisted that they won’t upheld any part of my complaint (that bit is hardly surprising, considering I have had to go the FOS in the first place). It’s just a waiting game now but, at least the ball is now rolling after them telling my adjudicator that it could be 7 weeks (4 weeks ago) before they would come back to them to advise why they objected to the complaint being looked at. I’ll be interested to see where this goes…
Me21 says
Have complained about an overdraft 16 months ago. Fos are completely ignoring my emails ive sent 2 asking for an update is anyone else having this problem. It just feels like its been forgotten 😔
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you get the initial confirmation about your complaint?
Louise says
I’ve had a complaint upheld by littlewoods not had the final response letter yet however the payments which have been applied to my littlewoods account are as follows. Does this mean I will be refunded this amount really confused.
Payment correction £1104.22
Refund admin charge £216
Balance adjustment £2367.31
Balance adjustment £170.76
Balance adjustment £563.01
Paul says
No it will be taken off what you owe them first and if anything is left over you will then recieve that payment
DM says
Hi Sara, just got my response from drafty refunding all interest from Nov 2019 which clears the outstanding £688 and a £86 refund so just hoping safety net credit come back with the same result which will save me £100 a month. Thanks Again
Lee says
Hi Sara,
The FOS adjudicator yesterday called me and sent me their final outcome.
My already fully upheld marbles card with £1031 refunded they have agreed to pay the 8% on top.
However with Aqua card.
My balance was £4,200 had card since 2012.
There was 6 credit limit increases.
Partially refunded me proportional interest from June 2016 resulting in £994 paid back from £3,400 credit limit increase onwards.
The adjudicator said Aqua New Day now agreed to pay the cash advance charges from June 2016. This amounts to £342 extra.
But due to time limit rules they cannot look at December 2014. I told them I complained in July 2021 as only aware then had grounds due to finding this website. I had put in some payday loan complaint in 2017 to the ombudsman I won. However I didn’t realise I could complain about credit card providers as had gone into a reduced payment plan back in 2015 with Aqua, despite repeatedly asking for all interest to be frozen and a payment plan to be arranged on the phone. I felt that was a complaint in itself at the time.
Basically the adjudicator is saying I missed time limit rules.
Do you think this is worth going to the ombudsman. As under 6 year rule I could go back to July 2015 (as made my complaint July 2021). Saying I want them to look at refunding me from July 2015 rather than June 2016 (when I first asked for interest frozen). Also do I have grounds to say I want 100% interest paid from July 2015?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the Marbles one is now sorted.
And the Aqua offer is increased.
Do you know the dates of the Aqua credit limit increases?
what date dod you send the complaint to FOS?
Lee says
Hi Sara,
Just had to double check my facts from the letters sent. This info is completely correct below.
1) Marbles will be sorted with the extra 8%, but like I said a while ago this credit limit was £250 most of the time (£500) at highest and upheld in full on such a low balance. Was opened around June 2016. I’m expecting about £200 extra back for this when calculations done. So far had already had refunded back £283.50 cash advance fees, £240 overlimit fees and £736.41 interest fees before it was sent to the FOS.
2) The aqua offer however has only increased by £342 for the cash advances they hadn’t paid me from June 2016 onwards. (I know I have 83 cash advances on this card from May 2015 to present)
No 8% statutory interest given as have an outstanding balance still of around £3070.
Aqua had only refunded me £994.13 proportionate interest (from June 2016 increase to £3400) and £12 in late payment fees up to now. I just think this is poor given the credit limit was around 9 times higher most of the time compared to marbles.
The limits on my Aqua were…
October 2012 – £250 to £600
Feb 2013 – £600 to £1000
May 2014 – £1000 to £1750
Dec 2014 – £1750 to £2500
June 2016 – £2500 to £3400
Feb 2017 – £3400 to £4200
3) My initial complaint letter was sent 14th July 2021 this year. But the SOA evidence 137 pages shows in July 14 to Nov 14; 3 times going over credit limit before Dec 14 credit limit increase. In March 2015 was when I first got in touch with Aqua from SOA and asked to freeze all interest and for a payment plan. Instead they put me on a reduced interest but no formal plan was created by them to bring my account down to zero despite requesting this at the time.
I then asked in my counter offer recently for Aqua to freeze interest while FOS investigate. They wouldn’t even do this. I’m paying £45 mins and they are taking about £15 interest each month (still in this reduced interest plan).
Just want to know if got any grounds to go back to FOS and disagree. I just think should go from 14/7/16 then and give me 100% interest if using 6 years. But the increase after Dec 14 was June 16 next.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so there weren’t any credit increases in the period between July 15 and June 16 – I am not saying I agree with the 6 year decision, but if there had been a limit increase in that period then that should clearly have been included.
“I just think this is poor given the credit limit was around 9 times higher most of the time compared to marbles.”
I can see why you feel that but it isn’t an argument that will impress FOS, which is what i am looking for.
So three points you can make. If adjudicator doesn’t change their mind, ask for this to go to an Ombudsman.
1) You don’t understand why the 6 year rule is being applied in this case. Yes you made a claim for a payday loan refund in 2017 but at that time you had no idea it was possible to make a complaint about a credit card. point out that if you had know, you would have made a complaint then – what possible reason could there be for you to decide to wait 4 years?
2) You asked in 2015 for help as you could not afford the repayments. At this point they should have considered your account and frozen interest. And they should have been monitoring your account usage after this point. So you would like to ask for a refund of interest from that point.
3) this means they should never have considered increasing your interest after 2015. So from June 2016 they should have been offering you more help by freezing interest and charges, not increasing your limit. So all interest and charges should be refunded from that point, not just those over a credit limit of £2500 as that limit was clearly too high and had caused you problems.
Lee says
Thanks Sara.
Much appreciated I will email the adjudicator directly as advised by them on Friday to tell them I don’t agree based on those points.
Will keep you posted on the outcome.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
please do – I think the point about refunding all interest not just that over a certain limit is important for a lot of cases.
Michelle says
Hi Sara
Could you help me with some advice
Iv just heard from the investigators at the fos about my vanquis complaint , they would like me to explain what exceptional circumstances as to why I didn’t complain sooner ( some increase is more than six years ago ) it was genuinely when I found your website when I realise these complaints could be made to me that doesn’t seem exceptional circumstances ??
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should reply saying how you found out eg that although you knew you were in financial difficulty earlier, you thought that was your own fault, and you only found out that a lender should have checked for affordability in 2020 when you saw an advert for a claims company about Amigo (change this so it describes exactly what happened to you, don’t just use those words, they are an example). Say you have therefore complained within 3 years of becoming aware you had cause for complaint. If the investigator doesn’t agree, ask for this to go to an Ombudsman.
Mike_p says
They have just asked me this too about my Barclaycard complaint, although they worded it a bit more tactfully. It never occurred to me at the the that I’d be able to complain, all the statements had warnings about what happened if you missed payments, and I’d never heard of anyone making such a complaint before. Even Stepchange don’t mention it which seems odd.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Definitely mention as part of your response that StepCahnge never told you that this was an option,
Mike_p says
It was only this year that I contacted Stepchange, They advised me to start a dmp and when I looked into thhem.I found this article which prompted me to submit the.complaints. Do you think that is still worth mentioning?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah no, not if that was already outside the 6 year time.
Mike_p says
I’ve replied saying how I found out so I’ll have to wait and see what they make of it. I complained as soon as I found out, I’d have done it years ago if I’d known.
Graeme says
Does anyone have any experience of NewDay accepting an adjudicator decision? Their deadline to respond was 19/11/2021 and I haven’t heard anything. I can see from reading FOS website for ombudsman cases that they are regulars there so I expect they may object. It would be a big win for me, Aqua and secondary Marbles Cards refunding all interest over £600 up to a limit of £3250 that has been constantly maxed out for nearly 4 years on Aqua as well as all interest on Marbles. It would clear all my debt and a bit more – saving £195 a month in current minimum repayments. I hope it doesn’t take another 6 months ….
Ross says
Hi Graeme,
From what I have seen, both on here and the Ombudsman Decisions website, they tend not to agree quite frequently with adjudicator decisions. However, there seems to be a large amount of upholds, at Ombudsman level, so don’t be disheartened, if they disagree. I have a complaint being investigated, at the moment, and I am 99.9% certain that, even if it gets upheld in my favour, that they’ll object (especially as mine would be a sizeable refund of all interest from when the card was opened). Please keep us updated and good luck!
Nike_p says
I’d be interested to know too as I have a complaint against them at the FOS at the moment. My balance went straight up to the limit as soon as opened it and stayed there for three years, and then they tripled the limot even though I also had a SafetyNet Credit account open. They tried to justify it by saying they are a second chance lender.
I have six card complaints at the FOS so hopefully I’ll be a bit better off once they have all gone through.
Scott says
Hi guys,
From past experience, I remember that Newday agrees with adjudicator on refunding etc.
However they always seem to disagree with the removal of negative information quoting they are obliged to properly report the running of an account.
So if you always paid on time then it should be dealt with quicker but if you have missed payments etc then it will likely need to go to an Ombudsman.
Scott
Mike_p says
I’m on a debt management plan, hopefully the investigator decision will come before they decide to register a default (dmp started in August and the Investigator picked the complaint up a few days ago)
Natalie says
Hi just to give you a chink of light – marbles didn’t accept but once the ombudsman had given the final verdict they refunded within a day of that decision and also corrected my adverse information on the credit file. I am
Left with a balance still to pay but they have been told
To be sympathetic to my situation so I am hoping no more threats of debt collection etc.
Graeme says
Hi Scott
Thanks for the response, I have always paid the amounts on time so I would be happy for them not to amend any information. I did have many occasions where I exceed the credit limit through interest charges being added before I had made payments, I think the adjudicator mentioned 16 occasions over 23 months between credit limit increases. But that was before the last increase and over 4 years ago. In the scheme of things I hope this doesn’t prove too problematic. Hopefully I will hear something soon, I will chase the adjudicator up after it becomes a week overdue. I am interested to see their calculations too as I note some have had to involve adjudicators to get them to include cash advance charges. I had quite a lot of these as it was common for me to make a minimum payment then cash advance whatever I could even £20/£30. Fingers crossed that I hear something this side of Christmas
Scott says
Hi Graeme,
What did the adjudicator say in their assessment? Did it include the removal of negative information? I ask this as I had no negative information but they still refused to remove this non existent info and it went to an Ombudsman.
For calculations I was lucky that I had all my statements and I done a spreadsheet for all 5 cards that I had. Interest and cash fees and knew exactly what I was due back.
Scott
Graeme says
Hi Scott, Besides the usual refunds of interest charges etc the adjudicator did state remove negative information. I did request this in my complaint to NewDay Ltd as tbh the repayments are difficult and I was not sure how long I could keep them up for. I have however kept them up and other than overlimit occasions around 5 years ago I have made payments when required. I would be happy for them to leave all that info on file anyway as I have 5 years history of making repayments. The adjudicator has let me know they have queried a few points and he is expecting a further response from them. I suspect they will drag things on it seems to be their MO to do so
Graeme says
An update on my case, after a couple of weeks of NewDay stalling for time, they have refused to accept the adjudicators findings. It is not unexpected as the refund to me is around 6k. Although I suppose on their books at the rate I am repaying the debt (minimum) it is probably worth over 20k to them. Having read through the last few months of their decisions at the ombudsman I am confident for success, I suppose they are just retrying their luck, it’s not as if one more complaint going to the ombudsman will mean anything to them. Hopefully it won’t take another 9 months but I am not hopeful of a quick decision.
Mel says
I am going through the same with Everyday loans, they were due to respond to adjudicator last week and still waiting….I am sure if it was the other way around and we owed them money it would be a different story !! :(
Gaz says
Hi just wondering if any one on hear has had any dealings with everyday loans. Iv just won my case from the FOS. They have agreed that 4 of the 6000 + loans I received were to be irresponsible. Dose any one no how long it takes for them to get back to you with a figure.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well done. This is best asked over on the “large loans” page. https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
Dave R says
Couple of promising results from the FOS regarding a Capital One credit card complaint and a Lloyds overdraft complaint.
Capital One – I complained to the FOS that they should have carried out more checks when offering me a credit card and part of my complaint was around how they recorded a lot of missed payments on my credit file when creating a payment arrangement for me, but they never made it clear to me that such an arrangement would be recorded in this way. They have agreed that they weren’t clear enough with the payment arrangements and have agreed to remove all missed payments from my credit file – they’ve also offered a gesture of goodwill payment of £150
My card was only a £200 limit, so I wasn’t sure if I would get anywhere with this but there you go… The investigator says he is waiting for more information from Capital One on the checks they carried out, to see if there’s anything else they should do to settle the complaint.
Lloyds – complained because in just over a year, they allowed me to increase my overdraft from £2k to £5k. Whilst I had pay day loans and bad credit all over my account statements the whole time. After waiting nearly a year, I had a note from an investigator to say that he is upholding my complaint and we’re just waiting to hear from Lloyds to see if they agree. Fingers crossed!
Elise says
Hey everyone would appreciate so much some help to work this out as they haven’t explained it in the letter
Took aqua card out not sure when but must have been around 2015 with initial limit of £250. limit was Increased 3 times
June 2015 from £250-1050
December 2015 from £1050 to £1300
then may 2016 from £1300 to £2300
Aqua upheld complaint only in relation to credit limit increase given in may 2016 which amounts to a refund of £2778
This is obviously a great outcome and seems a good offer problem is I have no idea what I could be looking at if they had upheld all of the increases? And how on earth would I work this out?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you know how much you have paid in interest since May 2016? Is this £2778? Some lenders will refund all the interest from this point on, some do a complicated calculation which says it was ok to charge you interest onf 1300 but not on the amounts over that… I am wondering waht Aqua has done.
what was you financial situation like in June 2015 when they gave your first increase? Were you only making minimum payments? What would your credit record have shown at that time?
Same question for December 2015.
Elle says
Thank you for the quick response
Problem is I have no idea re interest because the amount on a credit card can change every month so amount repaid would be up and down – maybe I should go back and ask them to calculate the interest on the other two amounts so that I can make an informed decision as it would be impossible for me to work this out
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you can assume you would get quite a bit more money… but without the numbers no one can guess how much.
The question is how likely are you to get the refund agreed from an earlier point? That is why I asked what your situation was like at the earlier increase points.
If you feel the amount you are being offered is a fair one for the difficulty the account gave you , then you may decide just to accept it – you don’t have to hang on and try for the maximum.
Elle says
I would think pretty likely as they have put in the complaint that at the time of taking the card, my income was A – and admit I said I had unsecured debt of £18,500 not sure where or why I would have put that so just a bit worried that may be a mistake but clearly if not then they should never have leant.
I think my best option is to ask them what the other amounts would be in interest and then be able to make an informed choice rather than just trying to guess. It’s just so frustrating with new day as nothing is done via email it’s ridiculous all in letters
Elle says
Also can I ask if I go to FOS with this, is there a risk of them saying no aqua were fine to have given it you and undo the refund aqua have already offered? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In theory FOS can make whatever decision they think is correct.
In practice FOS tends to work from what the lender has offered and see if any more should be offered.
The only offers people tend to “lose” by going to FOS is if a lender has made a £50 “goodwill” offer while saying they think there are no grounds for upholding a complaint. This isn’t what has happened here – Aqua have accepted they made a wrong decision.
Ross says
Hi Sara,
Quick question please, if I may?
It appears another FOS investigator has taken over my complaint against Marbles (Newday). It appears that information I had sent over, to the previous investigator, hasn’t been passed on. Nevertheless, I have sent over the requested credit reports and I have advised that I will contact the bank(s) concerned, with reference to historic bank statements (I am with neither, since when the card was taken out and subsequent credit limit increases). However, I have had to point out that, with the number of complaints I have brought to their service, covering what I believe to be the timescales concerned, I have asked him to check the FOS databases for this information, as I believe they keep it stored? To the best of your knowledge, do you believe this to be correct? I really don’t mind having to go to the bank(s), but it’s then having to scan & upload statements. Again, I don’t mind doing it but, I don’t see the point if they already hold them on file?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They should have your old statements if you have already supplied them. And obviously the info you passed to the previous investigator on this complaint!
It is shame you did not say this when you sent in your complaint, but where you are it is often simpler to re-supply the info than to argue about it.
Ross says
Thanks for getting back to me Sara, it’s much appreciated.
I did advise the previous adjudicator that the information would be on file, for both, but this appears not to have been picked up by the new one. It’s a bit confusing, as he states he has reviewed the case notes and I would have thought any previous contact/emails would be in there? Nevertheless, I’ll get the information, should he say that they don’t hold it. I’m just pleased that, after a considerable amount of time, things are starting to progress.
Steve says
Hi Sara, I complained to FOS Apr 2020 regarding overdraft complaint with Halifax. Essentially it’s an affordability complaint as I was gambling excessively through the same bank account they continued to increase my overdraft in. I would literally apply for an overdraft increase through my phone then continue to gamble, at times this happened multiple times a day. My limit increases reached around 3500 whereby I couldn’t maintain things anymore. I let Halifax know I was struggling Dec 2014. The FOS have come back to me Halifax have told us that you contact their Money management team in December 2014. As this is the case, I think you ought to have known if Halifax did anything wrong by agreeing to provide you with an overdraft when you started having problems with the account. The problem is I didn’t know I had PTSD and a gambling disorder (or label as you see fit). I also only realised recently I could complain about affordability and that in actual fact Halifax shouldn’t have really given me the increases anyway as I was clearly gambling with it and constantly living in the overdraft which I was never able to get out of. My question is how can I get this accross to the adjudicator effectively? I was basically paying around £150 interest monthly for a number of years before 2014, Halifax continued to loan to me with what seems like zero affordability or wellbeing checks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Before Dec 2014 had there been a prolonged period where you were in your overdraft every month?
What dates were the credit limit increases? What did Halifax do in Dec 14 when you contacted them?
Steve says
the account was always nearly at overdraft limit and generating maximum fees as back then they had thresholds. When I contacted Halifax they signposted to Stepchange and froze interest from that point on. They refunded some very recent overdraft increase charges but the majority of the account balance was built up on charges. Unsure on exact dates of increase but some were twice a day through their mobile app. As I’d literally spend the money gambling straight away.
Every time I got paid it bounced back into credit for a week or so typically
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then this is a standardish situation that applies to a lot of affordability complaints.
You need to reply to the adjudicator that yoyu knew you were in finacial difficulty in december 2014 but at that point you did not realise the bank should have made sure the limit increases were affordable, so you did not realise the bank had dodne anything wrong and that you had a reason to complain.
Point out that StepChange never mentioned making an affordability complaint to you, or you would have complained at that point.
Then explain how and when you found out about these complaints – did a frioend tell you? Did you see an advert from a claims company? Did you see an article in a newspaper?
Steve says
Thanks. I found out through this site tbh. Is there a time frame that would support my claim better in terms of finding out? Should I say that Halifax should of been aware of gambling issues?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How did you find this site – what information were you looking for and when was this – supply this information as an explanation. Say this was within the last three years so you believe FOS should look at your complaint.
Yes, you can point out the gambling showed on your statements and they should have considered your use of the account before increasing your credit limit – say it was irresponsible not to.
Steve says
Understood- thank you so much for your time Sara
Lucy says
Hi Sara,
I was hoping for some advice.
Nationwide Overdraft – After a messy break up from a relationship that involved some financial abuse (according to my therapist) I got a Nationwide overdraft to help cover costs. I was getting paid around £1600 a month, had other debts to pay left over from the marriage and my basic living costs too. I got approved for £500 Nov 2018, by Jan 2019 they had allowed me to extend this several times using the app to £2000. They are saying this was not irresponsible as they didn’t know I was potentially vulnerable and that I was eligible for £2000 when they first approved the £500 but didn’t take the full amount so it is not irresponsible. Shouldn’t the fact that I repeatedly, over the course of a couple of months, asked for extensions on my overdraft have prompted some form of safeguarding?
I was trying to manage my own finances for the first time in my adult life and was really struggling. I think this is very clear. Plus how would I ever pay off a £2000 overdraft when getting paid £1600 monthly and rarely ever coming out of the overdraft? I was usually either at the end of my money or coming to the end of it when applying for each of these extensions.
I have since worked my butt off to pay this off with a DMP but looking back feel it was irresponsible on their part.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you go back to November 2018 and look at your credit record and your bank statements for the three months before – what do they show your debt payments were?
Then go back to Nationwide and say you do not understand how they could approve your for a 2k credit limit when your monthly income was only 1600 and your monthly debt payments were £270 (or whatever)… that shows that if you had used the 2k credit limit, you would not be able to get back into the black the next time you were paid and that you would then be using the overdraft for all your essential payments such as rent, heating, food and paying other debts.
Send this to the Financial Ombudsman if they do not change their mind.
J Lloyd says
I lodged an affordability / irresponsible lending complaint with M&S Bank re a Mastercard. M&S increased my credit limit when I was unemployed. M&S rejected my complaint so I escalated it to the Ombudsman. Yesterday an Investigator called me he was very friendly the downside is the call lasted a couple of hours which I did not expect. He said he is awaiting further information from M&S but expects to make a decision within a few days once he has all the information. He also M&S had sent him copies of call recordings. Will let you know when I get an outcome.
Tracey says
Hi
Do you know anything about the new Plevin ruling April 2021 regarding having all commission refunded instead of over 50% only.
Is this true, I’m confused
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some court cases have been won.
Did you get a PPI refund? Was this a Plevin one?
Tracey says
They replied saying commission was below 50% so they gave a goodwill payment but now ruling has been changed to refund all instead of only above 50% I don’t know whether I should contact Bank of Scotland again stating this
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you could try. I don’t know what happens here.
Katie says
I was wondering if I can go back to Canada Square now they have lost the appeal case? I had an egg card with PPI. I put in a complaint with them and they turned it down back in 2007/8. I did not take it to FOS until about 2016 when they said it was too late. In 2017 Egg, Canada Square sent me a Plevin payment of just over a thousand I think. Can I go back to them about the rest?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but I do not know what is happening with these cases.
Mike_p says
What would you say is too high relative to income? I had a combined total of £33k on cards with an income of £48k, but the investigator has just ruled that it was ok for MBNA to give me a card with a £3900 limit. The other cards all had multiple cash advances on them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume a 33k balance owed, not a total credit limit where you owed a lot less.
How many of those cards had a utilisation of over 90%?
Had the balance owed gone up significantly in the last 6 months?
Mike_p says
Yes 33k owed. There were three cards and they were all at about 98% utilisation. The total balance hadn’t gone up significantly in the previous 6 months, it had been gradually riding for about 7 years and I applied for more when I got to the limit.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok so I don’t think there is a simple total debt to income ratio that is useful.
But having 3 cards at 33k of debt and 98% utilisation suggests that you were already unable to repay your exisiting card debt within a reasonable period so it seems likely that an extra £3900 of new debt would be unaffordable.
That would be my argument based on what you have said. Ask for it to go to an Ombudsman if the investigator does not change their mind.
Mike#-p says
Thanks I’ll go back to them with that. The response they sent is a little odd. Normally the responses are quite comprehensive and go into details of how they formed their opinion, but this one is very brief and just says that MBNA shared their lending criteria, they agreed I met it but they can’t share it with me for commercial reasons. I’d have thought they should be determining whether it would have been reasonable for anyone to lend to me in that situation, rather than whether a particular lenders criteria allowed in. They also refer to me and MBNA as B and C rather than using our names, which makes it seems like they copy and pasted a whole load of responses or something.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you could add that it seems unfair for you to be told you passed some checks that were reasonable without being told what they were , as this makes it impossible for you to see if an error has been made.
Mike_p says
I’ve responded asking for it to be escalated to an ombudsman with those points raised. I’ve also highlighted that I’d taken 77 cash advances in the previous year which should have raised questions for MBNA when they saw them on my credit report.
Thanks again for running this site – I buried my head in the sand for a long time but now I’m tackling everything head on and feel far better about it all.
Steve says
Hi Sara- the adjudicator has come back to me and is pretty insistent that I should have recognised Halifax did something wrong when I went to their money management team- not sure how they come to these conclusions. At that time I was experiencing PTSD and I don’t feel the onus should be on the customer to recognise affordability complaints from a mainstream lender? It’s automatically gone to an Ombudsman and he’s given me until the 10th Dec to add any further points. I feel like he’s completely missing the point, I would have more faith if he spelt words correctly or proof read his responses too. Just thought I would update, thanks for your advice.
Mike_p says
The investigators seem to be a bit of a mixed bag. I’ve had two investigator respomses this week, the first went into detail about all the points I’d made and why he thought they were or weren’t relevant, the second was a brief response that could have been copy and pasted from anywhere (even referring to me and MBNA as B and C instead of using our names)
The investigaor said this when looking at a complaint for me which maybe gives some insight into their thinking:
“I’ve also reviewed the information you provided and I can’t see any evidence of discussions
between you and the consumer about affordability and financial difficulties over three years
ago and I can’t see any historic missed payments on his statements. If I could see evidence
of this, I would suggest Mr x should’ve been aware he could complain at that time, but
since I can’t, it’s plausible he wasn’t aware. “
Steve says
Thank you for sharing this information. Hugely appreciated. I feel as though my responses are for the most a C&P job unfortunately.
Mike_p says
I don’t quite follow the logic the FOS use, if you’d approached Halifax and they’d given you assistance you’d probabily think they’d helped you and complaining about them weekend be the last thing on your mind.
I had no idea I could complain, as far as I was concerned I thought it was completely my fault and that I’d have to sort it all out myself.
Max says
Hi Sara,
I’m almost over the line on my complaints versus Aqua and Marbles and their large credit limit increases as I received a provisional decision from the actual Ombudsman in my favour this week.
I’m going to accept the Aqua one, but ask that the Marbles one is looked at again as my initial complaint was against two credit limit hikes.
I didn’t realise at the time I could request the FOS looks at whether the card should ever have been issued.
What’s interesting is that NewDay admitted to the FOS they didn’t actually access my monthly credit report prior to early 2016, so given my Marbles card was opened a few months before then, I feel I have a strong case on that point – especially as Ombudsman’s Aqua decision stretches back to a limit increase in mid-2015.
In case it helps anyone, it was just under two months from adjudicator to Ombudsman provisional decision. I’ll post full details once decision is confirmed.
I do have one question though, as I still have large balances on both cards (about £6k combined), to what date will the interest and charges be refunded (assuming provisional decision becomes a final one)?
Is it to when NewDay accept the final decision, or to some other date in the past/future?
Thanks,
Max
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the decision is that all interest should refunded from some date, then when this has been done, any remaining balance should still be interest-free. So i don’t think the “To date” has any meaning here?
Lee says
Max. So glad light at the end of the tunnel for you. My Aqua and Marbles case just gone to the ombudsman a week ago. It’s basically my Aqua one I don’t agree with. Nice to know it maybe only 2 or 3 months wait rather than a year wait, which I’ve prepared myself for.
Please keep us posted on here about your New day complaint. Very interested to know how it goes for you while I wait.
Max says
Hi Sara,
!!This is finally done and dusted.!!Ombudsman final decision today confirmed her provisional one from 10 days ago, meaning about £5,700 of credit (combined across the two cards) should not have been offered.
NewDay have to refund all interest and fees charged from 6.5 years ago on one card; 6 years on the other, plus simple interest at 8% and remove any negative credit file information.
It’s slightly bittersweet as in my original complaint to NewDay for the Marbles one, I only complained from the first credit limit hike, not the actual issuing of the card. The ombudsman said it would be unfair and delay matters if it was to be looked at now, so dismissed my request on that point; which I understand as I stupidly got my dates mixed up (2014 rather than 2015).
Timeline for my case was: March 2021 = Complaints made x 2 via Resolver.co.uk; May 2021 = NewDay rejected both claims; August 2021 = adjudicator ruled in my favour x 2; November 2021 = picked up by Ombudsman; December 2021 = provisional and final decisions by Ombudsman.
I’ve SAR’d NewDay so will spend festive season calculating redress from scores of statements, but as they’re lower than a snake’s belly, I feel the final chapter may yet have a few pages left to run.
Max
Graeme says
Thanks Max, that’s very helpful for me. My case against NewDay was escalated to the ombudsman yesterday after they refused to accept the adjudicator decision. Hopefully 🙏 it will be as swift as yours has been, I am confident it will be upheld in my favour.
Mike_p says
Do you know who I should approach regarding a credit limit increase to a Virgin credit card in 2013?
I had a recollection of a credit limit increase so I complained to Virgin, however they said they hadn’t increased the limit since taking the card over from MBBA in 2015. I recently made a DSAR for the statements and on reviewing them found that the limit had been increased in 2013. The DSAR was made to Virgin but the response included all the MBNA administered statements too, so I’m not sure if I should pursue the original Virgin complaint or if I need to start afresh with MBNA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know either, no one has asked this before.
I suggest you complain to MBNA not. You have 6 months to take the Virgin rejection to FOS, so see what MBNA say and make a decision when you know that. You can always make a FOS complaint against both of them and leave it to FOS to resolve… (but I haven’t seen that done).
Mike_p says
Thanks I’ll do that. The Virgin response was dated 24th August so I should have a response from MBNA before the 6 weeks is up. I thought I was misremembering when Virgin said they hadn’t increased the limit, bit I made the DSAR to help with another complaint and noticed the increase on there.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Thats quite tight. Ifr in doubt, send a complaint to FOS about Virgin before the 6 month date – you can always withdraw it later.
Mike_p says
Ok, I think I might send that soon then so I don’t forget about it, and mention that I have written to MBNA too.