Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t and the lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
Ali says
Hi all
I just wanted to let you know that my natwest overdraft complaint has finally been allocated to an adjucator.
I first complained to natwest around a year ago regarding affordability of giving me a £1250 overdraft on account opening in 2018/19. It was never increased but I had other debts at the time and pretty bad credit.
They refused my complaint so I referred to FOS last October 2020 and been waiting since then to be allocated so I’m pleased that it has been now as I received an email a few weeks ago saying they were looking at overdraft cases separately so it could be another few months before it was allocated…I know it could still be a long journey but fingers crossed!
Ali
N says
I sent mine in august last year hopefully i will be allocated an adjudicator soon then
Ali says
Good luck as yours before mine..not sure how it works!
Ali
N says
Hi any news has adjudicator got back to you yet? Im still waiting to be allocated 😩 over a year now x
Asl says
Hey Sara
Having a bit of trouble with Very just now, they only partly refunded my affordability complaint so I have sent it to the fos…. I also made another complaint to them about harassment phone calls and issuing my file with 6 missed payments while the account was on hold (which was rectified) but my problem now is that I logged into my credit file and under they very account tab is says the the word “debated” can you advise what that means in terms of my file… or is it there because I have sent the case to fos.
I am about to ask them to go into a payment arrangement for a couple months I’m assuming they won’t honour that?
Thanks in advance for your reply
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think it is worth worrying about this for two reasons – first because you have FOS complaint in and second because you need a payment arrangement.
If you need a payment arrangement then they can’t refuse because you have a FOS complaint or because they reduced your balance. They have to look at your financial situation and whether you can afford the normal monthly minimum payments.
How many problem debts do you have?
Asl says
Yeah I just wondered what it meant though, is it them who update this term? and why do they do it?
I’m in a financial pickle just now I have a couple of payment arrangements with credit cards but it should all become affordable again in February when my childcare bill will half. I have an amigo loan but I have more it less paid that it’s just Interest now so hoping it gets written off when they eventually start paying the compensation. I know payment arrangements arent good on ur file but I thought wen I go back to norma payments they will come off. Trying very hard to get out of debt without totally destroying my file. Very catalogue I feel is nothing short of bullying and they are being awkward. I know it’ll be a long wait till the fos look at the case 😢
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes it is the lender who adds that label. It is done when someone is disputing a debt, which you are.
It sounds as though you do need a payment arrangement for the Very account. You can say you already have arrangements for X and Y credit cards.
re Amigo – there isn’t going to be any resolution any time soon. How good is your complaint with them?
Asl says
Ok that’s good I will phone them.
I know that with amigo, but my mum is my guarantor and she dosnt want to stop paying them and I missed a couple of payments they took money out her account it was awful and very very stressful I became very ill worrying h about it… but yeah my case is good I’d say, they never asked fir any documents at all, and I already had multiple debts loans etc… was just a desperate time. Unfortunately I just need to keep paying it I don’t want it to effect my mum
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s a horrible situation. It seems very unlikely you will get any resolution from it in under 6 months and it could be more.
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/stop-paying-amigo-pros-and-cons/
N says
Anyone had any luck with studio? I have just today sent a complaint its my last debt to complain about. I didnt have any luck with very and littlewoods. I still owe studio £350 even though i haven’t bought anything for over 2 years the interest is just ridiculous paying £50 a month back
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you sent the Very and Littlewoods complaints to FOS? Many good complaints are rejected by these lenders – it’s not a question of “luck” you just have to persevere if you think the limit you were given was way too high.
N says
No i didnt bother and ive left it way past the 6 month mark now to send to Ombudsman 😩 its been over a year? I dont know why i didnt do studio the same time i have no idea
Andrew says
Can you please tell me how long you can go back for a complaint to Very and how long will very records go back.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These complaints can go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow them. Many lenders will reject a complaint about anything over 6 years, but the Finacial Ombudsman will often look at these older complaints if you explain you have only found out about them in the last 3 years.
Is your Very account still open? When did you open the account? When were the credit limit increases?
Andrew says
I have an account with very but the account I would like to complain about was going back to around 2009 I closed account after sorting out and clearing big debt. I reopened account couple of years ago which I have very little debt on. I am unsure of the credit increases on old account.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well make a complaint and see how it goes.
Laura says
Sara I know this is wrong thread but you have helped me so much in past and I don’t know where to turn. Ive been totally debt free for 18 months after all your help on this page. Ive returned from maternity leave and my work are continuing to pay me full time previous level wage while I do two days a step down. This has happened last three months. On each occasion I’ve emails my line manager and cc payroll and nothing done. I’m now totally OTT with anxiety about owing anyone anything after this took over my life for such a long time. But it’s three months in I don’t know what’s mine. What’s works. Hard to work out as two days took my just over paying tax, obviously paying tax on wages so really lost. What should I do next?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you asked your line manager? I mean in person or on the phone, not by email?
Lee Cassell says
Hi Sara,
Need some advice.
Shop direct / Very have got in touch with a final response regarding my complaint with them.
Very account since May 2015.
9 credit limit increases to highest amount of £3400 in 2017.
I have since lowered this over past 3 years to £500 limit (Due to gambling win) current balance is around £425 outstanding.
Noted other debt payday loans etc gambling addiction. Was using Very a lot for buy now pay later to pay lots of high end goods in bulk like 4 playstation purchased 4 in 1 month to sell the high street exchange shop cex for cash at fraction of value of items to fund my gambling addiction.
In the final response vshop ddirect saidtakingthis into consideration. Will uphold from April 2016 (3rd increase) when limit was raised from £900 to £1400. However then say proportionate only. Any balance over £900
was apparently only related to buy now pay later items. So they say no refund is due. They said I settled all buy now pay later on time except 1 that was when under £900 mark. Also not paying any interest on anything under the £900 mark. Although during this time must of been paying anything from £15 go £40 interest per month over the 64 months.
When I refer to FOS what should I point out?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some points to make. I don’t know what FOS will think of them so make them all!
1) Say the “proportionate” calculation is unfair. There is no reason why the BNPL items should be treated as the “over £900” items and this is unfair as it means you are effectively being forced to repay the items at 0% interest first with your monthly payments, which is in breach of CONC 6.7.4.
2) Also make the argument that the refund should be from the previous limit increase if you think it should.
3) argue that the problem isn’t just the increased credit record. Very should have seen your very peculiar pattern of purchases which suggests someone that is having a lot of financial troubles as no-one else would buy so many of the same sort of item. At that point they should have stopped allowing you to use the account at all.
I think you want a record of how much interest or charges you paid every month. If you haven’t sent them a SAR, send this now. Ask for copies of your monthly statements, or for the information on the monthly statements to be provided in some other way, eg a spreadsheet. But dont delay sending the FOS complaint in waiting for this.
Jay says
Hi Sara, can’t find my previous comment, but this is just a quick q – to you or anyone who has been through this process.
Complained to HSBC credit card about affordability. After 8 wks. Sent to ombudsman. Picked up by an investigator end of August. She summarised complaint and I’ve replied with some added info, she responded and said she has given HSBC to until 9th Sept to respond.
When I initially complained to HSBC direct it took several weeks (beyond 8) to hear back.
My question is, will the investigator allow HSBC more time to respond, or will she act on the info I have passed her?
I’m on a time constraint to get this resolved as if I win case, am hoping to get CCJ removed and this will make a huge different to my PENDING mortgage application.
However, I fear that it could be several weeks to hear anything.
Anyone got any positive news?! OR even vibes! Thanks :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has the investigator proposed that your complaint should be upheld? Or are they just asking for input from HSBC?
I am sorry but you should not expect this to be a quick process. Even if you win the complaint it will still take time to get the CCJ set aside
Jay says
Just for input at this stage.
To be honest I thought that would be the case with the CCJ, but I will still remain positive! You never know.
Just wondered what the next step would be , if HSBC don’t respond?
Is it a long waiting game? Or will they make a decision without the other parties response if it takes too long?
She requested info in by 9th. (But this is only first request).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has she made a decision and is asking if they accept it? or is she asking for more information?
Anita says
Hi Sara, I have requested a Subject Access Request from Littewoods and they told me I have to pay for it. Ii it right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No! Go back and say the ICO says a SAR is free.
(They can charge if you make unreasonable requests. Sending a SAR every week just to be a nuisance… but not for normal requests. see Can an organisation charge a fee? in this page https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/what-to-expect-after-making-a-subject-access-request/#b)
Anita says
Thank you so much for your advice.
S says
Hi Sarah,
I hope you are well.
I have a query I am hoping you can help me with please.
Can you get a refund on overdraft of student accounts? Or can I make a complaint as it put me in financial hardship and made my finances worse.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Many thanks,
S
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was this overdraft interest free? If so, there would be no charges to be reclaimed with a complaint.
S says
Hi Sara,
I can’t remember but I’m sure there was interest on the overdraft.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That would be unusual. How long ago was this? You could ask the bank how much you were charged in interest and fees?
I am not sure what FOS would make of someone complaining about a student overdraft, unless it was extremeley large.
Susan says
Anybody no how long on average it’s taking littlewoods / very to give final responses ?
Thanks
Ams says
Hi Sara. So I took your advice and complained to barclays about overdraft charges and received a refund on my joint account that I share with husband. He then made a complaint on his sole barclays account as he has also lived in overdraft for nearly ten years constantly. They didn’t uphold his complaint though saying that he could have contacted them about being in financial hardship and therefore they would not refund his charges. They also asked him if he was complaining about prior to 2016 or the time after and he was not sure what to say so said from 2016. I’m guessing he should now take this the the fos? Also, I’m now thinking that although barclaycard also rejected his complaint that they also should have noted that he was also permanently living in his overdraft so should have not increased his card limit?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think he should be complaining to FOS that he was in his overdraft constantly for 10 years. This by itself was wrong – they made it worse by increasing his limit.
S says
Very/ISME took less than 3 weeks. Recieved just over 11k which removed my entire balance.
Littlewoods have taken almost 8 weeks with a letter after 4. I called a week ago and the agent said he could see that elements of the complaint had been upheld but it was waiting for sign off.
Given that I had the account at the same time as my Very and isme I expect the same outcome. Will be referring if not!
Be worth giving them a call.
Susan says
I was just a bit concerned as I sent a letter to very ( shop direct ) with a complaint about my littlewoods and very as they are the same company , made it very clear in my letter that the complaint was about both accounts , got a letter today ( 4 week mark ) saying they need more time but only mention very
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh I would just wait until the 8 week point..
Sue carey says
Hi Sara
You advised me to ask for credit agreements for the credit card debts I have which have been passed on to Cabot
I have two cards with them, they have sent me one agreement but can’t provide the Post Office credit card agreement, I asked in February and again a couple of months ago
Last month I stopped the direct debit and said I would commence payment when I received the agreement
They have said that I still have to pay the monthly amount while they try to find the agreement
Is this correct?
What do I do next?
Thankyou
Sue C
Sara (Debt Camel) says
tell them you will restart payments when they produce the CCA agreement, but at the moment the debt is unenforceable and you will not be paying.
Sue carey says
Thanks Sara
Will try that
Regards
Sue C
Carl says
Hi Sara
I wanted to ask a question about overdrafts. I’ve been in my overdraft of 2.500 since at least 10 years. I live in it and basically my wages go in monthly and I use it to live as I have to so I get charged around £32 a month for living in my overdraft. Can I do anything about this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you in the red even when your wages go in?
During the 10 years, has your bank increased your overdraft limit?
Carl says
Hi Sara
Yes I’m just living in it always. My wages don’t cover the overdraft so monthly I’m just always in it. They haven’t upped my overdraft in many years….it’s been at the same for at a guess 8 years. They charge interest of around £25 and charge around £12 a month for the use of it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I think you should complain that the bank (who is it?) should have realised you were using the overdraft for all your everyday spending, not a short term problem, and that their charges were making your situation worse. Ask for a refund of all fess and charges for the 10 years you have been constantly in it.
Carl says
It’s Clydesdale bank. I’ve just lived in it for years. I’m scared if I complain they will stop the accounts overdraft and when my wages go in they will take it all.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Get yourself another bank account first and switch all your income and payments to the new account. The old account is now just another debt you need to repay.
Rich says
I’m in the same boat. Just about to put a complaint in 3k overdraft maxed out for 8 years, never in the black. Account was closed and defaulted. Lloyds now sending me 8 years of statements via post and I have to go through it all as they have no idea how much was charged. Still owe about 1.8k I’m hoping they agree, I’ll probably be happy with them just writing off the outstanding tbh. If they agree should default be removed Sara?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Don’t delay making a complaint while you wait for the statements – complaints can take a long while so get it underway.
I don’t know if Lloyds would offer to remove the default.
Rich says
I was going to put in the complaint with the exact amount of charges over the years,
Should I just leave it up to them then to work everything out?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. You can still work out the numbers when you get the statements – then you will have a feel for whether any offer from them is good or not.
Duncan says
Hi Sara, Am I glad to have come across your posts.
Couple of questions, I spiralled into a drink and gambling addition 2018, I gambled savings of around 45k, I then ran up debts on my credit card and current account, maximising my £9500 credit card limit and my current account overdraft of £750, which my bank actually allowed my gambling to take me past my overdraft limit on many occasions, I would often get paid then once my general bills were paid it sent me straight back into my overdraft, both of these accounts are HSBC.
I have just checked my HSBC credit card, before my gambling problem My credit card limit was £5000, but only had a balance of around £3000 which was manageable..
Now in December 2017 HSBC increased my limit £9500, I can’t remember why this has happened, I have no recollection as the balance was always being paid off.
I also had an exiting credit card with MBNA which was balance transfer of £7741 back in Aug 2018, with a Limit of £9600, my gambling didn’t take into affect on credit cards till the the summer / Autumn I 2018, I maxed my HSBC credit card, roughly around £6700, I then Transferred around 5k from HSBC to MBNA, which then allowed me to gamble again on my HSBC credit card again , so I was left with two credits cards maxed out at around £19,000.
I then remortgaged a property I had for 55k with interest and fees on top so nearly 60k, not to mention my earnings were [servers let impacted] By a change of job, from around £4000 per month £2500. Once the remortgage was through I paid the HSBC card off, left the MBNA I as it was on 0%. I. I then saw the opportunity to gamble on my HSBC credit card again and maxed it out so I was back to square one.
I Missed numerous HSBC credit cards payments, mobile phone bill. To the present day I still have 7500 on HSBC and 7200 on my MBNA and do not see the light at the end of tunnel.
I incurred interest charges on my current account too. Not to mention in more debt having to take out a mortgage on mortgage free property.
I stopped the gambling in December 2019 and could not believe the law changed in March 2020 where a credit card could not be used for gambling. Gutted.
What can I do. Do I have a case.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Now in December 2017 HSBC increased my limit £9500
Thus was before you had a gambling problem?
Duncan says
So I have a case! Also I was amazing f that MBNA engage 9600 especially I have just transferred a balance in Aug17 from Sainsbury cc around 5000 and Tesco 3500. Should I put a complain to MBNA. Although they never increased my limit but should they of given that much credit. And finally PayPal gave me 2500 in credit card which I used in 2018. Should I complain. PayPal. I was so annoyed I cleared th me debt twice if HSBC, I wish they had closed if Automatically like Tesco’s and Sainsbury did. Do I put one complain into HSBC But referencing both accounts. Do I use the template on this site.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m not saying it is the easiest case because it was over a short period and you were on a good income with a mortgage free house. But because the card and bank account were the same lender they should have seen the gambling.
MBNA is much weaker as it was a balance transfer card, so this wasn’t new credit and it was making your payments lower.
PayPal you can try.
Mike_p says
Make sure you get a proper response from Paypal. I couldn’t find a proper complaints address so I just used their online messaging thing. They replied with some cock and bull story about the credit reference agency giving them a yes or no decision and no details of my creditors. I sent that to the FOS and they said they couldn’t look in to it as Paypal hadn’t given them permission in the response, and they complained to payal on my behalf. I eventually got a proper final response Paypals office of executive escalations – ppelce@paypal.co.uk
Duncan says
Exactly, I did have a problem then.
When they increased that card I also had a Tesco and Sainsbury’s card, which has a limit of 3500 and 5000 respectively. These accounts were shut down by the lender. So HSBC have a irresponsible by not shutting them account down when I Cleared the debt twice!
So should I make one complaint to HSBC referencing Current and credit cards account, and one to MBNA, should they of provided me with 9600 credit card account when I showed debt of 8-10k? Also if a complaint is won, how do they work out the refund.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So that was a large credit increase. If HSBC could see from your account that you had a gambling problem, you can complain they should not have increased it.
I suggest you put in a single complaint covering both your HSBC credit card and current account. Ask for a refund of all interest and overdraft charges after the date of that credit card increase as that is the point you think they should have realised you were in difficulty (if that is correct? It was hard to work out the timetable of events from what you said.)
If MBNA were giving you a balance transfer card, they weren’t actually increasing the amount of credit you had avaialable and they were decreasing its cost. It’s not clear to me that you are likely to win a complaint against them
Duncan says
Thanks Sara. I’ll get on with that this evening.
Thank you so much for your help.
Mel says
Hi Duncan, I have a complaint in now with HSBC for the exact same reason as you. I was gambling £k’s from my HSBC bank account so the signs were clearly there that I was totally out of my head with an addiction. I was living in my HSBC overdraft (which I have literally just paid off after well over 5 years!) at one point I did repay it, but then like you – the opportunity was there to take it back again. And I did. They still granted me with further credit, a card (my mum helped me pay the credit card) and a loan (the loan I defaulted on as it was unaffordable).
I know I was totally reckless for what I did, and as you will also know when you are in the depths of an addiction you lose way more than just money and I for one have lost more than just that :( I wish you well on this journey
Duncan says
Hey Mel. Thanks for reaching out. I just wish the government stepped for all the people that used credit cards via irresponsible banks pre Mar20. Keep me posted on your complaint. I assume we just follow the wording on the template.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Change the wording so it describes what happened to you. That you had a credit card and an overdraft with HSBC. The huge jump in your credit card limit at a time HSBC would have seen gambling on your accounts etc.
Mel says
Hi Duncan, I used the HSBC complaint form on their website but used the points Sara has made in the details section, they came back to me the very next day to say they had received it and it had been passed onto the complaints team. It’s 3 weeks in now so I will keep you posted as soon as I hear anything back from them. I have been looking for a FOS case that sets a precedence for a case like ours but I can’t find one…so will wait and see what happens
Mel says
Hi Duncan, just wanted to check in. It’s been 7 weeks now since I submitted my complaint so looks like they are going to drag this out for the full 8 weeks. Hopefully will hear from them next week and will let you know
Paul says
Hi, both I am going through the exact same thing with Hsbc. I had an overdraft, loan and credit card totalling £20k approved in 2 months. with £££s gambling, unemployed and missed payments/over over draft. . Hsbc took 8 weeks and said they’d done online checks.
It’s now with the FOS so waiting on them. Sara do you know how refunded interest might work on the above?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would hope you get all interest refunded!
Mel says
Hi Paul, I got a pathetic response from HSBC claiming that when they gave me credit that I was not showing any signs of concern and that I was always within my overdraft limit so rejected my complaint. I actually laughed at the complaints lady as she was basically telling pork pies and thought I would be stupid enough to believe her.
I spent that evening going through my accounts from Oct 15 which is 6 years they can go back to and it put all in order with dates credit was issued. I have banked with HSBC for 20 years and I have never showed any irrational behaviour like that before (as in, payday lending, gambling transactions) and I was clearly bows of an addiction. I was issued a credit card, that went straight to its limit and minimum payments met, more payday lending and going overdraft limit and then a loan was issued. She claimed that I never went over my limit, and when I looked back I went over my limit a number of times once to £3025 of a £2500 limit.
I rang FOS the next day and explained my complaint the lady, who actually said that she may take on the case on and in the afternoon she emailed me to say that she will look at it and has already emailed HSBC for information and that will take some time.
Honestly do they think they can actually lie to people about there accounts ! I take full responsibility for my behaviour but I needed help not more credit !
Good luck with your complaint, let us know how you get on
K M says
Hi there. I wonder if you can help. I recently made an affordability complaint to my bank for overdraft (£3,500), Loan (£16,000) taken out in 2012 and further loan (£1,000) taken out in 2015 along with my credit card (limit £1,500) (which I have had since 2010). The bank have come back to me to say that because I have had the overdraft/credit card for a number of years and the large loan was taken out in 2012 they cannot consider my complaint at all as it is more than 6 years ago. They say that the further £1,000 loan I took out passed their credit scoring. Their actual response was “if you knew you were in so much debt, why did you apply for the extra loan of £1,000”. They say that I should have known about the level of debt I had as I was sent regular statements. I have told them that I only knew that I could complain about irresponsible lending since Wonga partially upheld my complaint. Can I take this to FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can. make it clear to FOS that you are complaining about both the overdraft and the loan.
Say you have only recently found out that a lender should check that credit is affordable so you are complaining within the 3 years period since you found out you had cause to complain. Say when and how you found out – did eg did a Friend or relative tell you? Did you see an article in a newspaper or online?
Jax says
Hi, has anyone got a complaints escalation email address for Capital One please? I am not happy! They have had my complaint for nearly 15 weeks but due to an error on their side they don’t have the details of my complaint logged on their system, they can only see that they acknowledged receiving it! They won’t be investigating at all and will wait now for the FOS to investigate as it has been escalated to them. They have had plenty of opportunity to tell me this before as I have contacted them on numerous occasions during the complaints process. I have updated the FOS on this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Annoying but I think you just have to wait for FOS. Capital One often didn’t give good offers anyway….
Jax says
Thanks Sara. It’s very annoying that their internal processes can be flawed but they are taking no responsibility. I will indeed wait for the FOS; let’s see what they say.
Emma says
Hi Sara
I’m in the process of setting up a DMP with my creditors and would also like to file complaints against 2 of my credit cards for irresponsible lending. Is it advisable to do both of these things at the same time or will one affect the other? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can do both of these at the same time. The DMP won’t harm your complaint and your complaint isn’t a reason for the creditors not to accept the DMP.
I recommend people who want to make affordability complaints but can’t carry on with the payments while they go through look at a DMP to help them immediately as it can take a long while sometimes for complaints to be resolved. A DMP puts you in a safe financial space while the complaints progress.
Elle says
Hi again Sara,
I realise you may not have any further info to add, but when you get a moment would you be able to take a quick look at my recent reply to my original Barclays Overdraft post dated here August 28, 2021 at 12:32 pm. ..I replied to the original post (two further comments) so it’s not come to the forefront of posts here.
You had previously very kindly replied to my issue with lots of very useful info and links about overdraft complaints and prior to my then receiving the Barclays response letter late last week I was aiming to use some of that info to go back to them again in a bid to get them to look back further (2007/08) even though on the phone they had stated they could only look back 6 years…
….but being that they didn’t then uphold my complaint, and they explained that my partial refund was just a ‘goodwill gesture’ and only covered 2 years and 2 months, I’d just wanted to get your take on it at this point…as I’m now trying to decide whether to go back to them or straight to the FOS.
All the details and a couple of queries are in my later comment replies to that original post (August 28, 2021 at 12:32 pm) save my typing it all again here.
I hope that’s okay.
Much obliged again,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t really have any further thoughts. You have gone back to them once to try to get them to change their minds, I do see the point of trying again so I would go straight to FOS.
I suggest you make out the case for as far back as you think is justified.
I don’t think it’s worth worry about what they call your complaint, just tell FOS it is an irresponsible lending complaint.
Jax says
Hi Elle, have they kept your account open following your complaint please? Thanks in advance.
Elle says
Hi Jax,
Yes they have, and they’ve left the overdraft limit as it was, even though I’m no longer in it/using it, they’ve just suggested that it might be wise to arrange to have the limit lowered now…but then, they’ve not upheld my complaint, they’ve simply sent a partial refund as a goodwill gesture and still saying they did nothing wrong…so not sure if that would make any difference.
Barclays have in the past refunded me for mis-sold ppi, a packaged bank account and now this complaint in regards to irresponsible lending,.. but they’ve never closed the account or suggested it.
Jax says
Thanks Elle for your reply, very much appreciated.
Jax says
Sorry Elle how long did they take to respond?
Elle says
Hi Jax,
I’d sent my irresponsible lending complaint via Resolver back in June. Barclays rang me, I wasn’t around so they then sent a letter saying they’d noticed that my complaint was old and couldn’t be opened again, the next day I had another 2 letters, 1 stating they had my complaint and were dealing with it, the other stated that they’d checked my account and I hadn’t incurred any ‘fees and charges’ so they weren’t going to refund me anything.
These letters were from 3 different people and 3 different departments!
That 1st letter was Barclays mis-reading the ref number and talking about a completely different and closed complaint, idiots! The 2nd letter was just a complaint receipt letter, but the 3rd letter referred to my complaint in June but didn’t mention irresponsible or unaffordable lending at all they titled it “Fees and Charges”. So I wrote via Resolver again saying I now have 3 letters not even addressing this.
A week later I received another letter, an exact copy of the 3rd letter!
So then I phoned them, and after getting past a very rude chap, I simply kept on insisting (loudly) that they, Barclays weren’t listening and hadn’t understood or addressed my complaint correctly, and I asked,.. so if I now need place a new complaint about this who do I address it to?
He then spoke to a superior, came back to say that they were going to look into my complaint again.
Cont….
Elle says
Cont.. Barclays then rang me the next day about my actual complaint, told me they could only look back 6 years but felt there were certainly issues that should have been dealt with earlier.
2 days later I received a payment into my account of just over £3000, but it took another week for their letter to arrive. They still didn’t uphold my complaint, and explained that the payment was a partial refund as a goodwill gesture. It covered around 2yrs 2months of the last 6 years.
I’ve since gone back to them explaining that I feel they should look back further, from 2007/2008.
I’ve also explained that I will be taking this to the FOS next.
Barclays have always been pretty swift to reply/sort things out but I’m finding that you really do need to check every single detail of their replies to be sure everyone is on the same page. I could have easily just left it (forgot about it) when I had those letters previously, but the fact that they all seemed to be talking about a completely different complaint/s and didn’t mention anything I’d pointed out or even the words “Irresponsible” or “unaffordable” even though I’d headed my letter via Resolver with those words, I decided to challenge them about it…
All told it’s taken around 8- 10 weeks to get this far but a lot of this time could have been avoided if Barclays had addressed the complaint correctly to start with.
I hope that helps.
Jax says
Thank you Elle, that’s really helpful. Hope you manage to get them to look back further. Wishing you all the best with your complaint.
Ams says
I’m having the exact same problem with them. They are only addressing the complaint as unfair charges and have completely ignored the irresponsible lending part and sent a letter saying they will not do anything and complaint now closed. I have tried to contact them to say that they have not responded to irresponsible lending complaint but either I can’t get through to them on phone or if I do then they take a note, claim the person who dealt with it is unavailable and they will get back to me but they never do! So frustrating
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send the complaint to the Ombudsman!
Elle says
Hi Ams,
In all honesty I don’t really hold up much hope of getting Barclays to look back any further than they have, especially as whilst refunding me a goodwill gesture and admitting there was a problem i.e. they said the overdraft was heavily relied upon for some of the past 6 years and that the overdraft had been unsustainable and unaffordable, yet they still didn’t uphold my complaint?!?!
I simply wanted to give them every chance to reconsider before sending/escalating it via Resolver to the FOS (as it may then take longer to sort) and I wanted to point out their contradictions.
Going only by my past complaints with them, they will likely get back to me this week/next and I’ll let you know what the outcome is.
As I’ve said, I phoned them in the end, (even though I hate dealing with them this way because even with a transcript things can get badly mis- typed/misconstrued), but once I’d finally got them to look at my complaint again as “Irresponsible lending” they have now called it…
“Mis-Sold overdraft facility/unfair charges” so maybe try that as a starting point if you call them again.
I’d use this number 0800282390 Customer Relations and maybe try to speak to Lucy Malkin as she did at least understand the issue I was having i.e it’s not “fees and charges”, and it was her that phoned me to chat about the actual complaint, and later organised the partial/GW refund.
If you take it to the FOS, I’d still call it “Irresponsible Lending.”
Mike_p says
Sending it to the FOS is dead simple, I’ve done it about 12 times. All you do is fill in their online form attaching any correspondence you had with the lender which takes all of 5 minutes. They get back to you some time.later asking for any credit reports and bank statements they need and some tr after that you get an email with their decision.
Elle says
Thanks Mike_p,
I’m not too sure who you were addressing with your reply,.. but yes, agreed it’s very easy to take a complaint to the FOS, I’ve done it both ways previously,.. via the FOS directly and also escalating via Resolver as everything is already to hand there in my case.
The main issue Ams and myself had is/was getting the bank to even acknowledge the type of complaint first, it really is/was infuriating, “Charges and Fees” is different to “Irresponsible Lending” ..and as with all FOS complaints, you should try to contact the lender first, but it felt like it was falling on deaf ears to start with.
I too have sent 12 cases to the FOS all told, :) …which means that this latest Barclays one will be the 13th,.. maybe it’ll be lucky 13! ;)
Mike_p says
It wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular, I’m just pointing out how simple it was as I imagined it being quite involved before I did it. I.expext.rejections now so I have just send the.complaints straight to the FOS and let them.desl with it instead of engaging with the lender.
Fred says
Hi Sara,
Is there anything I can do with the Ombudsman?
I sent my complaint to them nearly 1 year ago (it was regarding littlewoods)
I had an email in april saying they are busy and my will take a lot longer to assign to a investigator.
I emailed them last month to ask if there was any news. But they said still don’t have anyone to assign it to but have my case file.
I’ve had other cases come and go since this period and never had to wait this long.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not unless you think there is some reason why your case should be given priority.
Toby B says
Hi Sara,
I did unaffordable complaint on behalf my mother with Vanquis Bank credit card company. The investigator rejected the complaint even do I said my mother was a homemaker and made up income to get approved of the card. I also made them aware my mother did an I+E with vanquis bank only to find out she isn’t even able to make a affordable monthly payment plan. Does this not prove to the investigator that this was unaffordable? The credit limit also went from £500 to £1000 in 4 months. I highlighted those 4 months my mother made the bare minimum payments and was always near to the credit limit but was still approved a new credit limit of £1000.
Your thoughts please most welcomed
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I ask what the rest your mother’s finances are like? How large is this Vanquis debt now and is she making the minimum payments? Is she behind with any bills?
Toby B says
The vanquis credit card balance is £979 (credit limit £1000) She has two other credit cards with balances of £1200 and £450. The latter were taken out after the Vanquis bank credit card. I have also made unaffordable complaint on the latter cards – does she have a better chance of winning these? Her only income is joint UC payment she receives with her husband. The UC covers all of her outgoings but has very little remaining at the end of the month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are they buying or renting? If renting, social or private?
Tony B says
Renting social
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So her complaint will be harder if she made up income she didn’t have. A lender only has to make proportionate checks, the first limit was low. I’m not saying this is impossible to win but it’s not a good case. The same may apply to the other cards?
Is she now making token payments to these cards?
Another problem is that their UC will probably be reducing by £20 a week due to the UC cut you may have seen about. If she was only just managing before then they may now be in more difficulty.
If she wins a complaint, only the interest is refunded. I don’t know how much she has paid, but that may still leave her with debts?
It may be that she has to look for another option for clearing these debts. I suggest she talks to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about her options. And her husband too if he has debts.
Heather says
I am about to do down the route of a DAS in Scotland but I was wondering if it might be worth going down the route of claiming irresponsible lending first to reduce my overall debt.
I have had 3 credit cards and a loan (although the loan has been sold on, which is another issue) approved by New Day Ltd all with varying but increasing credit limit.
What would be a good form of words to address this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think you have to wait, I think you can make a claim in a DAS. But I am not a Scottish expert so I suggest you ask this question on https://www.advicescotland.com/home/debt-arrangement-scheme/
That sounds like a very good complaint. Make a single complaint covering all the cards and loan, if the loan is decided to be unaffordable New Day will have to sort things out with the debt collector.
Kelly says
Hi,
I raised a complaint about Barclaycard due to giving me a credit card even though I should not of been. They refused to give me any refund so I took this to the Ombudsman.
The Ombudsman have asked for a copy of my credit file as well as a statement from my bank three months prior being given the credit card.
This was a good few years back. I can even remember the year I was accepted for the card, nor can I remember my sort code or account number of my bank account.
Is there an easy way around this? The thought of it makes me just feel like leaving it.
Thanks,
Kelly
Sara (Debt Camel) says
More than 6 years?
Kelly says
Yes, I would say it was more like ten years ago.
Louise says
14 months after sending my JD Williams case to FOS, I’ve finally been assigned an adjudicator.
I thought it would be a lot quicker now but reading comments on here it looks like I have a long road ahead!
Lee says
Louise such a long wait. How quick did they allocate you a case reference number. I have other evidence now I want to link to my case. Can’t do this until I have the case reference number.
Louise says
I’ve had a look back to check and it’s actually been with FOS for 18 months! It took 4 months for them to allocate a reference number.
Hopefully you won’t have to wait too long
Mhairi says
Hi,
I had a Next Plc credit account. I defaulted and the account is with a third party debt collection, which I am paying a small fee.
I raised a complaint to Next regards to affordability and I have received a letter from Next, today stating that they are unable to consider my complaint as it’s time barred because it is more than six years since I applied for the account.
They have went on to explain I can take my complaint to FOS.
Really, I wanted to know if this is worth my while?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s up to you, but FOS will often look at complaints about things more than 6 years old if you explain that you have only recently found out that the lender should have checked it was affordable and so you have complained within 3 years of finding out you had cause for complaint.
It may take some time, but does that matter?
What limit did Next give you and did they then increase it?
PS don’t delay taking the decision. It’s sad when some comes back and says they forgot and it now too late to send the completion FOS.
turtle says
Well my complaint against Barclaycard has been picked up by an “investigator” at the FOS. Has the system at the FOS changed (it was an adjudicator before)?
So Barclaycard rejected my complaint stating that it was over 6 years old (the last credit limit increase was in 2014). The FOS asked me what prompted me to raise the complaint in 2021 which I answered truthfully, that I was only made aware that a credit card lender should have checked limit increases were affordable and I am complaining within 3 years of finding this out.
Hopefully the investigator decides my case is within there jurisdiction and I can get some money back. Has anyone else had success with accounts going back over 6 years?
My SAR has statements going back to to day 1 (over 10 years). I worked out they charged me over 100 times for late payment/over limit. I was constantly maxed out on the limit, gambling transactions over several years. All these factors and they still were happy to increase my limit 4 times within 15 months from £500 to £5200.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Same system, different job titles. Investigator = adjudicator.
If the adjudicator says they won’t look at your case, as for this to go to an Ombudsman.
Mike_p says
I’d be interested to hear how you get on as I also have a Barclaycard with a limit last increased in 2014. Like you I didn’t know I could complain until quite recently, it’s not something you seen mentioned much. Even if you look on Stepchanges website it just has generic guidelines on complaining and nothing that mentions irresponsible lending. I’ve made SARs for the three cards I had at the time, I dread to think how much interest I have paid them over the last 11 years.
Kate says
Morning,
I am going to be getting in contact with Littlewoods and look real reclaim interest paid and fees.
Does anyone have a contact email ?
Thanks
Gollums Twin says
Hi
Would this scenario warrant Irresponsible Lending:
Branded NewDay credit card taken out in 2014.
In 2017 I requested help with payments and a payment plan put into place Nov 17 for 6mths (default notice issued bit no default recorded).
April 18, successfully applied and received another credit card, which was also a branded NewDay card.
The Payment plan did not show on credit reports, but I expect Newday should have done there own internal check to see if I had issues with any of their other products?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did the payment plan reduce your balance a lot? How large was the limit on the new card?
Gollums Twin says
Both card limits were £200
The card with the payment plan had a balance of £225.01 and plan was to reduce by £5 each month, the plan was intended to stop interest and charges being applied.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can complain, but those are very small credit limits so it may be hard to win.
Gollums Twin says
Sorry I should have added.
Both cards went into default Mar 1st 2020
Both balances about £280 (now paid off)
In the time frame approx 300 & 180 Overlimit/later payment charges
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is very hard to win complaints about very low credit limits. I’m not saying it is impossible, just warning you.
Tia says
Hi Sarah,
I’m wondering if your could tell me whether this case would be worth complaining about or not.
I had a child’s bank account with NatWest, and when i turned 19 (2009) in i was offered an overdraft on this account. at this time i was living alone with 1 dependent and on benefits.
no affordability checks were carried out, and when my income was inevitably eaten up by the overdraft the following month i was again offered an increase in overdraft. over the space of a couple of months this was increased from 0 to £1700 (estimate). Because the debt was overwhelming, i changed banks and the debt with NatWest was handed over to a collection agency.
I’m not sure if this debt is still active; I’m paying a number of debts to collectors and this debt is possible with one of them.
Is this debt too old to complain about?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should find out first of all if you are still paying it.
How many debts are you currently paying? What is the total and how much are you paying to them a month?
frogman says
Please has anyone recently dealt with NewDay (Aqua and Marbles creditcard) at FOS level? I have just received a final decision with FOS upholding my complaint. NewDay now have to remove two defaults on my file and possibly refund me as interests already paid should clear my outstanding balance. How long more do I have to wait for calculations, removal of entries etc from NewDay? I have read somewhere that they are quite stubborn. I am over the moon with this decision and I thank you so much once again Sara.
N says
I complained to very last year about them and littlewoods but they didn’t acknowledge my littlewoods complaint. Also they rejected anyway and i left it too late to complain to the Ombudsman however i don’t know if im able to but i have just submitted a claim to littlewoods as only now thinking about it they only mentioned my very account?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that’s worth a try. But it’s a pity you didn’t send the complaint straight to FOS when it was rejected.
N says
i had an overdraft with santander a few years back. Its was £1650 which i used all of. My pay every month was around £800 at the time an so i was stuck in this overdraft for about a year paying £30 for usage until i asked my mother for help which she then paid off and they closed the overdraft facility for me. I obviously complained and its still waiting adjudicator at the moment but i was wondering if i have a chance at anything back? From what i can remember i was applying everyweek for £50 more each time it went up really quickly anyway.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Regular requests for a larger facility, even if only a bit more, should have suggested that you were in trouble. I think that was worth sending to the ombudsman.
ajay says
Hi All
need some advice pls.
I was given an aqua card back in september 2018 with a limit of 1500, despite having 3 ccj on my file totalling 6k, and pay day loans
my limit has gone from 1500 to todays limit of 6150. 1500. 2300. 3100, 4100, 5100, 6150
i am currently paying £160 a month including interest. i am struggling to pay
i want to put in a complaint for unaffordable lending, if my complaint is not upheld, do they close your account and expect full payment or do you just carry on paying monthly
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you lose your complaint, they may close the account but they can’t insist you repay it in full – you would be able to carry on with making monthly payments, just not use the card any more.
Jenn says
Hi,
I am after some advice please. I put in a complaint about irresponsible lending regarding an overdraft I had and financial ombudsman has agreed that my bank should not have increased my limit and asked to refund all interest and charges. This overdraft is currently with a debt company who I pay back monthly. I am currently in a bad financial situation and have rent arrears and this refund would clear the rent arrears but not the total balance of over draft with the debt company. Is there a way I can get the bank to give me the refund instead of taking it off my outstanding debt? As I believe they have the right to off set. So I could clear the rent arrears as that would help me out much more than reducing a balance. Is it worth going into the branch of my bank and discussing it with them before accepting the refund? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s unusual for FOS to say a bank has to refund you in cash, but this is worth talking to your adjudicator about.
If the rent arrears are cleared, would you realistically be able to start clearing the overdraft? How long would that take?
Jenn says
Hi, sorry only just seen the reply. I did speak with the adjudicator regarding this and he said he would have to put forward a very good argument for the bank to pay me instead of taking the balance off the debt. The overdraft was sold to PRA group a couple of years ago and in his final response he has said the outcome is for my bank and pra group to organise amongst themselves what will happen with the balance? I’m assuming this means he has not put any argument forward for my case of the money directly to me?
I already have a payment plan in place with PRA group and would be unable to pay for the next few months as my priority is clearing my rent arrears. If these were cleared, I would be able to adjust my payment plan for my overdraft and pay this back quicker as my current payments are very small due to my financial situation.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I already have a payment plan in place with PRA group and would be unable to pay for the next few months as my priority is clearing my rent arrears. If these were cleared, I would be able to adjust my payment plan for my overdraft and pay this back quicker as my current payments are very small due to my financial situation.
Go back and tell your adjudicator this and say you would like them to ask the bank if the money can be paid to you to clear the rent arrears – this is worth a try.
Paul says
Hi,
Can you advise me please.
How long should an adjudicator at the Financial ombudsman take to give an answer.
The reason being an adjudicator picked up my case in August and still nothing. I have emailed for an update but all I get is, I will contact you when I have reached a decision.
This is the longest I have waited for an adjudicators decision.
Thanks
Paul
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It isn’t that long… I suggest you ask them in a couple more weeks if there is any additional information you can give.
Have you already supplied a copy of your current credit report and relevant bank statements?
Paul says
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Everything was sent in August and I was told they had everything from the credit card company.
Thanks
Paul
Tracy says
Good morning Sara
I’ve hav a complaint upheld by an adjudicator regarding vanquus credit card. They agreed to refund all interest from April 2013. After going through my SAR this is roughly around 5550.
I have today received communication from vanquis stating they are refunding 4700 but that’s including 8% interest.
I’ve asked for a breakdown but I’ve calculated the 8% on the 5500 which is around 448. Daily rate 1.22.
From April 2013 to today is 3096 days. 8% interest roughly 3777.
Am I calculating this correctly?
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
probably not. Because that interest you are being refunded was added gradually from 2013, not all in a lump in 2013. So the interest that was added later will not have had so much 8% interest added.
But the first thing is to get the breakdown as it doesn’t sound as if they have the interest refund part correct – until that is right, you can’t have any idea what the 8% should be.
Andi says
Make sure they state what the actual item is that they are refunding, dates and actual amount.
Due to the age of the cards it will include ROP or Repayment Option Plan.
You are entitled to this back as well as it was their form of PPI. ,(But not PPI)
Tracy Sowerby says
Hi Andy
Have you successfully claimed off a credit card? It’s all rather confusing with the interest calculations.
I agree with vanquis principle interest as this is the amount added after the the credit limit increase which was irresponsible and you just need to add up the monthly amounts after this. How does the simple interest work?
Kind regards
Tracy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I agree with vanquis principle interest
no you don’t, because they are taking off £1129.92 for the interest on £500 going forwards…
This is the important money to contest, the simple interest is going to be a lot less and only payable from the point your account goes into credit.
Tracy Sowerby says
Good afternoon Sara
I’ve spoken to a vanquis representative regarding the breakdown.
They are refunding all actual interest from the first irresponsible limit increase of 500 and subsequent ones.
They go on to say that they deduct the interest on up to 500 for the same period.
I’m confused?
If they have to refund all interest after a specific date that should be in full?
Given that there is a balance on the account which is getting cleared which includes interest and purchases from the start of the account this would address that issue?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thankyou
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to your adjudicator and say what Vanquis are doing isn’t fair. and that you should be refunded all the interest from that point.
If your adjudicator doesn’t agree, some back here.
LW says
I submitted a complaint regarding unaffordable credit increase to Very 14 weeks ago. I’ve had the usual updates that they need more time them I’ve had no further communication from them. My account was with Lowell with an outstanding amount of £949 which I was paying monthly. This has now been closed and balance £0. I logged into my Very account and it had the following:
Payments Applied
16 Sep 2021
Administration Charge Amendment £354.00 £354.00
17 Sep 2021
Payment Correction £2246.43 £2,246.43
Adjustments To Your Account
16 Sep 2021
Interest Charge Amendment £1,689.71
16 Sep 2021
Interest Charge Amendment £1,029.58
16 Sep 2021
Interest Charge Amendment £1,293.01
16 Sep 2021
Payments Refunded £2,246.43
16 Sep 2021
Correction To Account £0.01
My current very balance is now showing as being in credit of £2246.43.
What does this mean? Should I hold off escalating to the FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was your balance before this?
LW says
My outstanding balance was about £2119 with a credit limit of £2350, this was transferred to Lowell’s and I’ve paid it down to £949. It’s saying available spend is £4596.42.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So assuming that is Very’s decision on your complaint – do you think it is is satisfactory?
LW says
I’ve just received a letter today, I’m getting a refund of £3326.43 as they’re upholding my complaint from 2011. I really wasn’t sure what to expect so thanks to this site or I would never have complained to them. This was the last default to be removed from my credit file!
I’ve also just had a win with Mr Lender after it was initially rejected by the FOS but I disagreed with their decision so that’s another minimum of £1000!
Also just had a win against Capital One who allowed me to open a 2nd card with them with a £300 limit, no further increases so I received £249 and the remaining balance cleared.
I’ve also been successful with another few payday loan companies and have two outstanding with Marbles and HSBC credit cards, not expecting these ones to be easy though.
This site has made a huge difference to me!
Scott says
Hi LW,
The adjustments that you mention total £4366.30. If you deduct the credit amount showing on your account of £2246.43 there is a difference of £2119.87.
Assuming that the balance of £2119.87 was the amount that was transferred to Lowell, then Very need to take into consideration that you paid £1170 to Lowell and need to include this in their calculation.
Scott
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good spot! I think it is definitely worth asking Very to explain the numbers and point out what you have paid to Lowell also needs to be refunded.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
great – Very have offered to remove the default?
LW says
Yes I wondered the same about the £1170 paid to Lowell.
My Very account was still showing a balance of £2119.87 so once they applied the redress of £4336.30 it put me in credit of £2246.43. They’re in the process of bringing the account back from Lowell so the £1170 I’ve already paid will be added to this credit amount = £3416.43 then I’d imagine there’s tax deducted from the simple interest to get the balance due of £3326.43?
They also stated that they will request Lowell remove all adverse information from my credit file.
Scott says
Hi LW,
As much as it would be good to get their payment quickly, I would still ask them for a detailed breakdown of their figure.
If Very are paying simple interest then the amount due would be more than £3416.43. It should never be less than the amount that you have overpaid.
Simple interest should be paid from when your account would have went into credit and as they were refunding from 2011, I would imagine that you would be due a fair bit of simple interest.
Better to check now rather than lose an extra thousand or so.
Scott
Chris says
Hi Sara
I’m after advice
I’v just put irresponsible lending complaint with Barclaycard today, they were increasing my limit from £2000 over the years several times to £9500 in 2016. despite always paying only minimum, my financial problems, pay day loans, overdraft always used to last pound. Now my card is suspended I have over £6900 still to pay back, now they asking me to contact them and do paydown plan that will help me clear the balance in 2 years. I’m not sure what to do, can I still go ahead with paydown plan while I complaint is investigated or should I contact Barclaycard and ask them to continue to pay minimum and wait until the outcome of the complaint ?
please advise.
thanks Chris
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you afford the repayments to the paydown plan they have offered?
Chris says
Hi Sara
Thanks for reply
Yes, at the moment in getting better financially so I can afford it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t see any downside to your accepting it then. It doesn’t change your affordability complaint if the balance is now dropping – your complaint depends on what your finaces were like when they increased your limit.
Wjb says
Is it possible to find out your overdraft history? Is it something you’d have to ring the bank up for?
I’ve had my overdraft for years, started small, is now around £650. Which to some may not be a lot, but I’ve always been init, month to month. I’ve switched bank now but still haven’t paid the overdraft. Always getting charged interest etc.
I’ve had issues with gambling and payday loans, even asked the bank for a loan in branch to clear them and help me get back on track. (They wouldn’t touch me due to the payday loans) but I want to work out if the overdraft increases and fees happened during the times I was gambling/pay day loaning. Before deciding wether to complain against the bank?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can just ask your bank when they increased your overdraft limit and by how much.
How long ago did you ask for this loan? Have you been in the overdraft all month, or did you go into the black when you were paid?
Do you have other problem debts? Do you have payment arrangements with them?
Have you made affordability complaints about the payday loans?
wjb says
this was a few years ago now, when in a bad patch. ive pretty much sorted my finances out now after a few complaints were upheld.
Was just think the other day, my Santander account, where my overdraft is, had loads of gambling and payday loans going through it.
But im unsure as when the overdraft was given/increased so wanted to check back through.
Im always in there now as my wages enter a different bank, but they’ve never taken into consideration the mess my account was in when my wages did go in there. when asking for a loan to help out (in store) i was advised to upgrade my account to pay monthly so going overdrawn from my overdraft would insure any fees, would just incur the overdraft and monthly fee for having the account.
Lee says
I’ve recently submitted an overdraft bank compliant to the FOS similar reasons to what you have. I did obtain information over phone from my banks customers service team, who did provide me with a lot of information (As I went back to 2010). The limits though can been seen on your TransUnion report if in last 5 years. The years before I asked my bank.
I had a lot of overdraft increases. So I asked the bank to provide me with the 1 statement each year that showed my annual overdraft charges amount. For me it was my July statement and used this to show an 11 year worth of snapshots of my financial situation at the time and then referred to the TransUnion report page to see more evidence of the amount of times lent. As s it’s impossible to provide more paperwork than this or you will be overloaded. I then scanned the bank statements at my local library using their scanner and booking a computer to email to the FOS to attach to my complaint.
Tracy says
Good afternoon Sara
With regards to a default. Vanquis have agreed to refund all interest and charges and remove all adverse information
The default was made when I ran into difficulty and it was Vanquis who lodged it. They have since sold the debt on to NCO.
When they have calculated my redress they said they will pay NCO and give me the remainder.
Firstly if the debt has been sold on why would they say they have paid it off before I have even accepted the offer. Surely all parts of the redress come to me with the option of me contacting NCO to.pay balance.?
Secondly, NCO recently contacted me with regards to offering a reduced amount and if I were in a position to pay before 20th November to contact them.
Even if Vanquis pay them or me, why havnt NCO reflected the reduced figure to Vanquis as Vanquis figure is the higher amount in their calculations.
Thank-you in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Firstly if the debt has been sold on why would they say they have paid it off before I have even accepted the offer. Surely all parts of the redress come to me with the option of me contacting NCO to.pay balance.?
This is what normally happens when a debt has been sold. It is what the Ombudsman says a lender should do.
Secondly, NCO recently contacted me with regards to offering a reduced amount and if I were in a position to pay before 20th November to contact them. Even if Vanquis pay them or me, why havnt NCO reflected the reduced figure to Vanquis as Vanquis figure is the higher amount in their calculations.
because where you are getting a cash refund, this makes no difference. If the higher amount is used, more interest is refunded – if the lower amount is used, less interest is refunded. It will have no effect on your cash refund.
Aal says
Hi can you tell me how you contacted Vanquis was it address or and email if so can you pass me it on please? Many thanks
Lee says
Aal. I recently emailed vanquis my complaint with them. Use the following email-
customer.relations@vanquisbank.co.uk
Tracy Sowerby says
Good morning sara
I have received a breakdown. Vanquis agreed to refund all interest and charges on account. after April 2012. There was 4 credit limit increases after and including this one. Outlined below is their response. This does look like they have only refunded on the first credit limit increase?
Also when calculating the simple interest, dont they have to calculate up until the complaint is resolved, not when the last interest was added?
Based on the CLI in February 2013 from £500 to £1500 being unaffordable
First exceeded £500 on 13 March 2013 and never dropped below again
Interest last applied 6 September 2018 – Purchase rate – 41.16%
Actual interest applied 13/03/2013 – 06/09/2018 – £5573.54
Interest on £500 for 2004 days – £1129.92
Interest refund – £4443.62
Charges refund – £12
Total due – £4455.62
Notional interest estimate
Period 13 March 2013 – 6 September 2018 is minimum 65 interest cycles
£4455.62/65 = £68.54 or say £69 per month
Thankyou in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Vanquis agreed to refund all interest and charges on account after April 2012.
were those the exact works they used? because they certainlt don’t seem to have done that…
What happened to the account, is there still a balance (before any refund here), if so how large? Or was it cleared, if so when?
tracy sowerby says
Your reply
Vanquis agreed to refund all interest and charges on account after April 2013.
were those the exact works they used? because they certainlt don’t seem to have done that…
What happened to the account, is there still a balance (before any refund here), if so how large? Or was it cleared, if so when?
Sorry it was April 2013 when they should refund all interest and charges.
Vanquis agreed with the adjudicator regarding all 4 credit limit increases. The card defaulted in sept 2018 and was sold onto Arrow at 3574.42 which will be reducing the redress.
Im not sure my messages are getting through.
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So did the adjudicator specify that they should refund all interest and charges after that date?
Or just the ones over the previous limit of £500?
This is one issue.
The second is that because the refund they have calculated is larger than your balance – that suggests it should have been cleared some time ago and you should be receiving 8% statutory interest from the point the balance was cleared.
Have you been making any payments to Arrow?
(yes your comments have been getting through but I have been in a meeting and it’s confusing when you leave so many comments to work out what the “real” one is.!)
Tracy Sowerby says
Apologies
Yes the adjudicator specified they should refund all interest and charges after the April 2013 increase. He stated all 4 were irresponsible.
The debt was sold on but not cleared. I am currently paying a token payment of 1.00 per month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then I suggest you go back to Vanquis and say the adjudicator said they should refund all changes, so why are they taking off
“Interest on £500 for 2004 days – £1129.92”
Also point out that you should be due 8% statutory interest per year from when your account went into credit.
Copy your adjudicator into this email.
Tracy Sowerby says
Hi thankyou for that
Also point out that you should be due 8% statutory interest per year from when your account went into credit.
Im not quite sure what this means? by going into credit do you mean when they sold it on?
Am I not entitled to 8% simple interest from the start of the complaint also?
Thankyou
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, the 8% interest is due on interest payments you made which weren’t all at the start. For credit cards this is the point your account would have gone into credit if they hadn’t added on the extra interest.
It doesn’t matter if the account was sold or not, they have to work this out assuming they kept the account the whole time and the payments you made to the debt collector were made to them.
Don’t get hung up on this, it is only a secondary small amount. The important bit to get corrected is the total of the interest being refunded.
Xubo says
Can I ask anyone delt with Vanquis, I put a complaint in July 2020, got the email saying they’ve recieved my complaint but have heard nothing since, I’ve used resolver for my complaint and have sent two emails if they have looked at my complaint but nothing
Any advice would be great
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is it now past 8 weeks?
Xubo says
Yeah it is must be coming up to 12weeks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you send the complaint to the Ombudsman. Vanquis often don’t make a good offer, so there isn’t much point in spending more time trying to get a response at the moment. Details of how send the complaint to FOS are in the article above – it’s pretty friendly if you use their online form.
Xubo says
Thank you, I’ll leave it another few weeks if still nothing will take it further,
Lise says
Hello Sara I have has a response regarding my unaffordable lending complaint to vanquis
The FOS investigator has said they can only look into the increase after 2017. Do you feel I should let an Ombudsman Look into this, this was their response
Vanquis have responded and They’ve said the account opening and first two credit limit increases were more than six years prior to your bringing your complaint. They have however confirmed they consent to our service investigating the credit limit increase of 2017.
Also, I’m satisfied that more than three years have elapsed since when I think you would have reasonably become aware you had cause to complain. You’ve said in your complaint submission “I feel my credit limit was Increased Irresponsibly which put me in financial difficulties on a number of occasions. I have used consolidated loans on two occasions to clear my Vanquis credit card balance.”
I’ve checked your account statements from 2015 and can see you were frequently in arrears and missing payments in 2015. After taking a consolidation loan as you’ve referred to above, you cleared the balance on 10 September 2015.
We would be able to consider a complaint outside this timeframe if there were exceptional circumstances why the complaint wasn’t brought in time.
Exceptional circumstances might be where a consumer had been incapacitated. I’ve considered what you’ve said and I understand you didn’t bring your complaint sooner as you’ve said:
“The reason I had not contacted Vanquis prior to the 14 April 2021 is because I had only recently become aware that a lender should check credit is affordable after coming across an article online in April 2021. Although I had set up payment plans in the past to help my situation. I didn’t know I could put forward a complaint until reading the article. Prior to this I did not know what checks had to be carried out and was not aware of unaffordable lending. Therefore, I am applying within the 3 years period in which I found out I had cause to complain.”
However, I’m satisfied that you ought to reasonably have been aware you had grounds to make a complaint about irresponsible lending when you found yourself in financial difficulties in 2015 and needed to consolidate your debts.
I cannot say the reason you have given amounts to exceptional circumstances that would have prevented you from bringing your complaint sooner.
I think it’s fair to say you should have reasonably been aware that you’d be disadvantaged by Vanquis’ lending decisions by the time you needed to consolidate your debts in 2015 and therefore had cause to complain.
I acknowledge you’ve said you weren’t aware a lender should check credit is affordable until you read an article in April 2021; but what have looked at here is when I think you reasonably ought to have been aware. I think it would be fair to say this would have been at the point you found yourself in financial difficulties and consolidating your debt.
So, although we can’t consider the events of the account opening or first two credit limit increases, I think we can consider the merits of your complaint regarding the credit limit increase of 2017.
So, please let me know if you agree to our service considering the 2017 credit limit increase only.
Do you think I should let the ombudsman look into this or should I accept the investigators decision.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was your account opened, with what limit and when and how large were the limit increases before 2017?
You probably should ask an Ombudsman to look at this – you are not saying you had “exceptional circumstances” but that you were withing 3 years of finding out you had cause to complain. You may well have known you were in finacial difficulty earlier, but you have onlt would out this year that Vanquis should have checked for affordability, so until then you probably thought itwas your fault not the lender’s.
But if you can answer those questions about the limit increases that would help.
Lise says
Hello Sara
My account was opened in 2010 with an initial limit of £250 in 2012 it was increased to £1000 and increased again to £1500 in 2015. After I had paid of the balance it was increased again to £2500 in 2017.
Thank you
Lise says
Sorry increased to £1500 in 2013 not 2015.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so the increases were both more than 6 years ago – in that case i suggest you send the case to the Ombudsman.
Jax says
Feeling very despondent. Capital One didn’t even investigate my complaint due to an error on their side so now waiting for the FOS. Very and MBNA rejected my complaint. MBNA responded within a week and seem to have missed the point and now it looks like my bank has rejected my complaint re my overdraft despite me having paid around £10k in charges over the last 10 years and constantly living in my overdraft. Think I’m in for the long haul with the FOS.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s normal for these complaints to have to go to FOS, it doesn’t mean your complaints are weak.
What is your current financial situation like, are you in difficulty and are you making payments to these accounts?
Jax says
Thanks Sara. My current position is much more positive than it was during the time these complaints relate to. I am paying all of the above regularly so if the outcomes from FOS go in my favour there will be less of a balance to clear and more refunded back to me which is a bonus.
Bobby Reds says
Hi Sara,
I made a complaint to NatWest because I was in financial difficulty during 2014-2020 and during this period of time NatWest collect charges from me for unarranged overdrafts, returned direct debits etc. totalling £3,000. Initially NatWest refused to accept my complaint, so I forwarded the complaint to the FOS. Since then, NatWest have now said that as a gesture of goodwill they will refund me £1000 (plus 8% statutory interest) for only the period 2018-2020, because 2018 is when I phoned them and said I was having financial difficulty.
Do you think I should accept this gesture of £1,000 or reject it and ask for the full amount of £3,000? Please let me know your thoughts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
has the account been cleared?
Daniel says
Hi Sara
Complained to very and littlewoods 8 weeks ago called today to find out what’s going on , they said they need another couple of weeks do you know if this is a good sign or bad , if I win I’d be due £1000s back so don’t want to get my hopes up
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It isn’t good or bad, it just means they have a lot of complaints.
I think you should send the complaints to the Ombudsman if you do not get a reply in 2 weeks. these lenders often reject good complaints, so there is no reason to keep hanging on for too long as the case may have to go to the Ombudsman anyway.
It is simple to send a case to the ombudsman.
Jane says
Hi,
I have put in a complaint with Jacamo, using the above template. (Thank you for that.)
I have just received a reply. They have asked for supporting documentation evidence in the form of; bank statements, credit report, details of any creditors I may have had at the time my account was opened/credit limit increased,
any other evidence that may support my complaint.
Is this necessary? I have nothing to hide in sending this information, so can send if it’s necessary. However it does feel a little intrusive and I would have thought that them not already having this information is proof in itself of irresponsible lending.
Also I have had my account with them for many years but I’m uncertain of the exact year it was opened, and I also am unsure when the credit limit and interest was increased.
Any advice on what steps I should take next would be greatly appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would have thought that them not already having this information is proof in itself of irresponsible lending.
You will only win your complaint if they did not make enough checks AND the checks would have shown the credit was unaffordable.
So yes, you should send them your bank statements. Do you know the dates they increased the credit limits?
Jane says
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I’m afraid that I don’t know the dates that they increased the credit limits.
This may be a silly question but when sending bank statements, I have had the account for years, so do I send them all my bank statements for the duration or is it enough to send only the ones when the account was opened and when the credit limit was increased? (Providing that I can find the correct dates, of course.)
As well as the statements, should I also provide the additional information that they have asked for? E.g any other creditors.
Thank you for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this is the perfect point to find out the details of the credit increases, whichy it is useful to know.
I suggest you reply to them saying you are happy to send them the relevant information but you don’t know the dates your limits were increased, so if they can send you a list of the increases, with dates and amount, you will be able to send them the relevant bank statements.
Your credit report will give details of your creditors going back 6 years – but they can access that themselves, you don’t need to send one.
Jane says
I will do that. Thank you so much for your help so far.
Lisa says
Hi All
This is a warning about Aqua refunds. When I complained about my limit being increased Aqua accepted my complaint and refunded me all the interest and charges over the original limit. However, the refund was put against my balance as i expected but this did not bring me down below the original limit. Once they had applied the refund they then started charging me interest on the full balance not just interest on the original limit. I complained to them directly and they refused to change this. I took it to FOS and the Adjudicator agreed with me but Aqua didnt. I asked for it to go to Ombudsman and they have now agreed with me. In my case it is a very small sum as i was able to clear the balance in total a few months after my original complaint but for others this may be significant.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well persevered.
Jax says
Are compliant handlers taught how to ignore the important issues and respond about anything but the detail of your complaint? Dear me! Another one for FOS.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh dear, who is the lender this time?
I don’t think they are taught to ignore issues, they just aren’t given the time and freedom to determine a complaint properly that they would need, so it’s a question of applying some set approach which doesn’t take account of what you write.
Jax says
It’s Barclays. That makes sense; I’m not sure how my complaint could possibly have been investigated thoroughly. I sent it at dinner time last Monday and they sent their final response letter on Wednesday of the same week!
Bob says
Hi Sara,
I spoke to you earlier in the year about Vanquis and irresponsible lending. & an account that handy defaulted until 2021, 1 years after it was sold, and 5 years since I reduced payments. Given a card in 2014, multiple defaults at the time from credit cards/overdrafts. The investigator wanted a reason why it was over 6 years ago and I asked you for advice?
They replied today, rejected that the decision around the card was too long ago and I’ve not given exceptional circumstances. (To me not finding out about that you could complain till recently seems more than fair..)
They’ve also stated even though I eventually struggled, I was making the payments and above the required amount prior to increase.
I feel they have a point there, even though I was struggling on the face of it, I was making those payments.
However they’ve spoke with Vanquis who are willing to offer £75, and place a default for 2015 meaning the default will drop off next spring.
I’m torn. On one hand I don’t think checks were done at all, on the other for me the real goal of getting rid of that default (as it was unfair to last 6 years from this year) for future mortgage is a huge incentive.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They’ve also stated even though I eventually struggled, I was making the payments and above the required amount prior to increase.
Can you say some more about what happened? Why do you think Vanquis should have realised you were struggling? (I’m not disputing it, just asking for the reasons.)
Bob says
In hindsight I don’t think they could at the time I did lend PDL to cover myself but this was after the increase 1-2 months later.
The opening of the account I think I have a case for with my file trashed at the time, but I sort of feel I can take the result here and not be complaining to be honest?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so the original card limit was how much? and the account opened when?
And then they increased the card limit to what? And when?
If you are happy with the offer then its fine to take it. Is the balance now cleared? because debts not on your credit record still matter for mortgage applications.
Bob says
Around £1400, the limit jumped finally from £700 to £1400. Then I agreed a payment plan and they sold it years later
Opened March 2014, original limit £400, a few months later to £700.
It’s been sold on (in defaulted) in 2019/20 and after 1 payment I’ve not dealt with the new owner for 2 years currently. I’m aware for a mortgage I’d have to clear that first though
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so the early limits werent that big. You may not ened up with a large refund even if you can convince FOS to look at the case. As your main aim was to clear your credit record, you may think this is good enough.
Ross says
Hi Sara,
You may recall that I posted on here, a few weeks ago, with reference to a complaint with 118118 I placed with the FOS, in March 2021. The FOS replied, 4 weeks ago, to state that they were still awaiting the business file and apologised for the delay. As per your recommendation, I emailed both the FCA and the Director of Compliance at 118118. The FCA responded, saying the usual ‘we can’t comment on individual cases etc…’ but, unsurprisingly, no response from anybody at 118118. 4 weeks later, and I am still none the wiser what is going on. I’m not going to pester the FOS, as I know they’re snowed under but, do you think that when I (eventually) hear from an adjudicator, that I should press for compensation (from 118118), whether they choose to uphold, or not? The whole process has been dragged out, by the fact that they haven’t even bothered to send the case file over and I think they should be held accountable for their poor complaint handling.
Regards,
Ross
Andrew says
Hi Max
Same sort of situation to you
New Day rejected the aqua and Marbles cards and adjudicator partially upheld marbles that they was ok to open the card but not form the 1st increase, aqua should never have been opened
However less than 5 weeks after rejected a ombudsman is looking at it
Mike_p says
How long did it take to get an adjudicator decision? I’m waiting for a decision about my Aqua complaint at the moment.
john b says
Does anyone have a contact email address for Argos card? Cheers you help would be most appreciated!
Chris says
Has anyone had experience of TSB, I used Resolver to raise an overdraft complaint 8 weeks ago and have had no response or acknowledgment. I have chased several times and again no response. Just wondered if anyone had similar issues?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you phoned them up?
But it’s simplest to send it straight to the Ombudsman. Banks often give very poor offers or rejections so there is no reason to delay going to FOS.
Stacy says
I’ve had a catalogue account since 2010 and the more I spent the more they increase my limit. I’ve been paying back the minimum amount for 3 years now and have not made any purchases in this time frame. What should I do? I was a student from 2010-2013 and they raised my limit to £5000! Any advice would be great thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What are the rest of your finances like at the moment?
Stacy says
Thank you for your reply
Finances are OK – I haven’t defaulted a payment on any account ever.This catalogue debt never goes down, it’s the same now as it was last year as I can only afford minimum repayments, they have said I am now on a pay down plan for this.
The good news is that we are able to help you do this in a structured way which will reduce the amount of interest, fees and charges you pay over the life of your account, and help you pay off the amount you owe in a reasonable time. To do this, we will be making changes to your account.
As a valued and loyal customer, we want to make sure that not only can we help you to pay down your balance quicker, but that you can also continue to use your account in the future.
We have set out below the changes we are making to your minimum payment, and what this means to you.
We are changing the way your minimum payment is calculated to ensure that your account does not remain in Persistent Debt, and to prevent this situation from re-occurring.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so what are the changes they are proposing?
david simmons says
Hi Sara,
I would appreciate your thoughts. I contacted you after my mother passed away about a year ago after I found a large outstanding debt from 2 credit card companies. I followed your advice and referred my complain to the FOS for unaffordable and irresponsible lending. Since it involved 2 credit cards, Nationwide and Barclaycard, the complaints had to be done under 2 separate complaints, as this was the only way the system would allow. Both investigations have said the same thing which, in summary, ‘says the Financial Ombudsman Service has concluded that the lenders involved have done nothing wrong’ and therefore have concluded that giving an 83-year-old pensioner with no savings and only a small pension to live on over £42400 in unsecured credit card loans, with average APRs of 23% as responsible lending? The lenders have provided no credit checks as the limits were set more than 6 years before my mother died. Her income which has been proven with Bank Statements show she was only receiving a pension before the limits were set and increased. (the Nationwide increased the limit by 70% in a single year). Nor will the lenders provide a copy of the credit agreements saying they do not have a copy. I have asked for my complaints to be referred to the Ombudsman for a final review but I am not optimistic!
Regards,
David
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you made the point to FOS that your mother was elderly and not financially aware and would have had no idea that she had any cause to complain that the debts were unaffordable?
Nor will the lenders provide a copy of the credit agreements saying they do not have a copy.
Are these accounts extremely old?
Did your own any assets eg a house with equity?
david simmons says
Hello Sara,
My complaint was accepted due to having been made within 3 years of my being aware. However, having been allowed it is impossible to actually prove as the 6 years means the lenders are not required to provide any documentation.
I have repeatedly told the investigators that my mother was vulnerable as per the FCA definition. They have just said that they do not agree without giving a reason. The fact that the lender(s) do not have to provide any documentation due to the 6 years rule has just meant that they are considered to have done all the checks required, despite the sums involved! The prima facie evidence of the amounts involved verses income would suggest that the checks could not have been done.
I was also told “that before November 2018, an affordability assessment for credit limit increases was not a regulatory requirement.” I do not believe this to be the case according to the FOS own website!
My late mother paid the minimum payment for a least the last 6 years and the FOS has told me that this is not a sign of financial stress or difficulty because she could have chosen to do so. This is hard to believe when the minimum amount repayments over those 6 years was meant much more was paid in interest that the principle debt.
The accounts were originally opened 15-20 years ago, so yes, rather old. I did ask for a copy of the terms and conditions that would have been in use at the time but only ended up with the current ones.
My parents had no savings but did have equity in the house. It always had a largish mortgage until my mother passed away.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has your father also died? If so, how long ago?
david simmons says
Hi Sara, my father died 3 years before my mother. His financial affairs with credit cards was not so good. I was able to resolve these debts but never knew there were still credit cards in my mother’s name. I believe the problem stemmed from my late father, which really proves my late mother’s vulnerability. She never told me, which was my fault for being so unhappy about my late father’s mess!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this does sound complicated. I’m not clear how much you know about what happened.
It seems very likely that the limits were increased too high, but proving it may be very hard. You could say to the adjuicator that you understand that the ombudsman has to make a decision “on the balance of probablities” and common sense suggests that these limits were way too high. Her bank statements are useful to back this up.
Have the lenders said they do not have the CCA agreements for the debts? You are entitled to ask for these as the executor – the balances are debts that need to be paid by the estate if the debts are enforceable, but if the CCA agreement cannot be produced then the debts are probably not enforceable. You may want to take legal advice on this – as executor the cost of that can be paid from the estate.
david simmons says
Thanks for the sound advice. Just one last question. I note that there is a requirement in the Standards of Lending Practice requiring cyclical product reviews. Could you tell me how often these should be done, especially with an open ended credit agreement and what should they involve? The lenders have only provided statements for the last 7 years and claim they have nothing beyond the 6 years. However, that still leaves the last 6 years when my late mother was just paying the minimum payment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The SLP are guidance. The Financial Ombudsman will however often say they are “best practice” and creditors should follow them. So this is worth pointing out to FOS.
There is nothing about how often these reviews should be done.
What are the current balances on each of these debts? And how much did your mum pay in interest to each of them in the last 7 years?
If there is no more evidence, then you may have to accept that a refund going back 7 years is as far as possible, even if you can make FOS agree to that.
Bob says
Hi, I had a credit card with Aqua and marbles. Can I just do the one complaint to newday ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. It’s best done as a single complaint because they should have looked at both cards when deciding to increase your limit on one.
david simmons says
Hello Sara. Between the Nationwide and Barclays she had a credit limit of £43000 and over just the last 3 years paid nearly £20000 in minimum payments! The FOS has so far said that my late mother might have chosen to just make the minimum payment and the lenders, having supplied no documentation other than statements are considered to have done nothing wrong! I have even been told that the FCA only required regulatory affordability assessments in November 2018. However, I found that CONC 6.2 predates this before being removed from the handbook. I have asked the complaint(s) to be referred to the Ombudsman for a final ruling…..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Quite right to send this to an Ombudsman.