UPDATE: The Morses Scheme has failed. See Morses – what is happening to loans and refunds
UPDATE: in March 2022, Loans At Home went into administration. There is no money to pay any refunds. Any remaining loans have been written off and you should not make any payments to them.
UPDATE: The Provident Scheme has now closed and it is too late to make any Provident complaints.
Doorstep lending – also called home credit – is where a collector comes to your house to collect the repayments. Many people have been borrowing from the same lender for years.
If you had doorstep loans, you may be able to get a refund of the interest you paid if the lender should have realised the loan was unaffordable for you.
Contents
What is an “unaffordable” loan?
The regulator says that a loan is unaffordable if you couldn’t make the repayments without borrowing again. This could be borrowing from the same lender, from someone else, getting deeper into your overdraft or by not paying a bill.
So even if you always paid your loans on time, they could still have been unaffordable. Especially if you had several loans at the same time or often had to refinance/top-up a loan.
Often the first few loans may have been just about affordable, but the lender should have realised their loans were making your life more difficult when you kept getting more loans.
If you were struggling, your agent should have suggested that you could repay the current one a lot more slowly with no extra interest being added. But too often people were just offered another larger loan.
That was irresponsible lending and you should get a refund back of the interest you paid.
You are very unlikely to get a refund for only one loan. But if you borrowed several times and if you took out a new loan when you were having problems paying an existing one, then complain.
How to ask for a refund from home credit lenders
Here is a template letter you can use. Change it so it tells what happened to you.
Template letter for doorstep loan refunds
I want you to send me a list of them, showing for each loan when it was taken out, how much interest and charges you added and what I repaid. I would like you to send me a complete list even if you consider that some of the loans are too old to be refunded. [delete this if you have all your loan details.]
You should never have given me these unaffordable loans. I am asking you to refund the interest and any charges I paid, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
[If any of the following happened to you, add a couple of sentences describing this. If the problems didn’t happen for all of your loans, add the words OFTEN or SOMETIMES. Delete any that didn’t happen to you.]
- I have borrowed from you continuously for [say how many years]. Every time I repaid a few payments my collector encouraged me to take a top up and refinance it. My collector never explained I would have paid less interest if I just took a new loan and carried on repaying the old one.
- I missed several payments and the collector knew I was in difficulty as I had lost my job/had my hours cut/benefits reduced but I was just offered a new loan. I was never told that I could have a repayment plan for my existing loan instead.
- When I asked my collector if I could pay over a longer period, he/she said I couldn’t unless I took a new loan.
- For the first loan my collector looked at my payslip but after that he never checked and never asked if I was getting the same money – I wasn’t.
- My collector said I needed to change some things on my application otherwise it wouldn’t be approved.
- My collector filled out the application and gave it to me to sign, I didn’t have time to read it.
I didn’t know that the lender was supposed to check that I could repay the loan without having to borrow more. I only found out in [say when and how you heard about these refunds – article in the Sun? Facebook advert? friend told you?]
Also include your customer reference number if you had one. And explain if you have moved address or changed your email so they can locate your account.
Contact details for doorstep lenders
- Cockle email enquiries@cocklefinance.co.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
- Compton Finance email mark.phillips@comptonfinance.co.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
- GR Finance email grfinanceltd@gmail.com with Affordability Complaint as the title
- Mutual email to complaints@mutual.uk.com.
- Naylors Finance email with Complaint in the title to admin@jrnaylors.com.
- Pinewood Finance C0 email tracy.evans@pinewood-finance.co.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
- Short Term Finance (Birmingham) Use their online form and copy your complaints letter into there: complaints to Short-Term Finance.
- Skyline Direct complaints@skylinedirect.com
- Swift ivan@swiftdl.co.uk
- Valleys Finance admin@valleysfinance.ltd.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
Keep a copy of online complaints or letter sent – if you email it to yourself it’s easy to pass on to the Ombudsman if needed.
You should get a response in 8 weeks
You may get a list of your loans on its own. This is NOT the response to your complaint, which will arrive later. You don’t need to do anything with the list of loans, just keep it. If the lender makes you an offer, it will help you to see how good or bad it is.
The lender should reply to your complaint within 8 weeks from when you send the email, not when they acknowledge it.
Lenders may be very slow about replying to complaints and they often don’t make a good offer. They may ask for two more weeks several times… I suggest you send the case to the Ombudsman straight away after 8 weeks.
How strong is your complaint?
Very large numbers of these complaints are being won at the Ombudsman – in the last quarter of 2020, 84% of doorstep lending complaints were won by the borrower.
In all of those Ombudsman cases, the lender had either rejected the complaint or made a poor offer.
So don’t be put off if this happens to you, send it to the Ombudsman!.
Three useful guidelines are:
- The more loans you had, the better your case. Borrowing for long periods by taking out new loans or refinancing existing ones shows you were dependent on the loans.
- It can be hard to win a complaint for just a couple of small loans.
- It’s normal to not get the first few loans refunded. If a lender has offered you a refund on loans 5-12 that is probably a good offer. But if they have offered a refund on just loans 10-12 it probably isn’t.
- The larger the loans became, the better your complaint is.
- The Ombudsman will usually look at loans that are over 6 years old, but many lenders just refuse. You can go back to 2007.
Sending a complaint to the Ombudsman
The easiest way to send a complaint is to use their online application form because that asks all the questions they need to know the answer to (most of these are easy, such as would you like to be contacted by letter, email or phone?).
You probably won’t get a refund back of all the interest you paid… but ask for a refund on all loans and let the Ombudsman make the decision about where your loans became unaffordable.
You don’t have to calculate anything or ask for a specific amount. If you don’t yet have a list of your loans, say you have asked for one but the lender hasn’t sent it.
What should you say to FOS?
There isn’t a separate template for this. You can just copy the complaint you sent to the lender. But here are some more things you may want to add.
- Say if you had a poor credit record, especially if it got worse as you carried on borrowing from the doorstep lender.
- Say if you repaid some loans early because you refinanced your loan. Here you may have paid more in interest than if you had just been given an extra loan. If this wasn’t explained to you by your agent (and I bet it wasn’t!) then you paid more interest than you should have.
- Also tell the Ombudsman if it was always your agent suggesting you borrow more, perhaps because it was getting near to Christmas, or in August when you might need more money for new school uniforms, or because you had paid off a lot of a previous loan.
A lender in your house should only offer a loan if you had asked them in writing for it. So if this happened to you, mention it in your complaint to the Ombudsman.
Send your bank statements and credit report
Send your bank statements with your complaint. If you haven’t got them all, send ones you do have and set about asking your bank for the rest, then send those. You are more likely to win a complaint if you send them, especially if you only had a few loans.
If you have borrowed for many years and the pile of statements would be HUGE, it’s still a good idea to get them all now, but you could then wait and see what the ombudsman asks for.
Don’t worry if your bank statements show a lot of gambling. The Ombudsman just accepts you have a gambling problem, you can still win these complaints.
Also get a copy of your free TransUnion Statutory Credit report and send it to the Ombudsman with your complaint. Don’t worry that you can’t get an old credit report – the Ombudsman knows this isn’t possible.
Do you have a current loan?
You can complain when you are still repaying a loan. If you tell the lender you want a payment arrangement, they should allow you to pay less each week over a longer period without adding any more interest.
But if you have other problem debts as well, talk to StepChange and they can see if a debt management plan would help.
You can also still complain if you are in a debt management plan. But don’t bother if you are in an IVA, bankruptcy or a DRo.
Need some help?
Your local Citizens Advice can help with these complaints.
You don’t need a lawyer or a claims company. They take a LOT of your refund and you can make a better claim on your own than they can. A good claim involves telling your own story, you know what happened and a claims company doesn’t!
Comments or questions?
Hundreds of readers have posted comments below about how their complaints are going and the successes they have had. If you have a question, ask it here!
Are you struggling to pay car finance?
Is your credit limit too high? Not affordable?
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Linda says
I have sent a request to Provident for details of all loans I had with them, I am repaying a debt with them at a reduced rate. At one point I had 8 loans on my book and was paying almost 200 pound a week but my agent still kept offering me loans. I will update on my progress.
Sarah Rees says
I’m gonna give this a go with Provident too. Me & my husband had many, then split & both got more again independently from the same agent. I moved with my daughter into a council house & became unemployed shortly after. Had already started making late payments, but was still given a bigger loan with the agent knowing my circumstances. We eventually worked things out but he had fallen behind with them also. We started making payments on 1 which quickly got paid off. Then 1 day the agent turned up at the door screaming at my husband in front of my daughter, warning him he wasn’t ripping her off & had better sort payment fast! We paid that 1 off in full shortly after too. However, throughout the duration of these loans, ocassionally, the agents husband ( who we believed to also be her boss) would knock the door with a demand for payment in full for other debts we were struggling with at the time. Completely unrelated debts. He used to say that his company bought in paid debts & made him collect them. He would always turn up the week after pay day too I’m assuming because he knew when our pay was due from the provident loans. Is this normal? I used to think it was weird then but even more so now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The collections for other debts – I don’t think it’s normal, but I’m not sure how it will feature in a complaint against Provident. I think it would have to be in a complaint by your ex.
Nim says
Hi Sara (debt camel),
I have had a response from adjudicator re provident – not very pleasing.
Basically, they agreed to look at loans from July 2007. But only agreed to refund from Oct 2014 – how bizarre? – my credit history was very bad at the time, which I explained to them and responded to the outcome again pointing that out again and I was unemployed for around 18 months at the time. This was my biggest clams so was hopeful. I don’t think the adjudicator did a proper assessment compared to the other who dealt with my PDL, and feel let down by their response! I wish the same adjudicator could look at it, as he/she would now know my real financial circumstances.
do you think this is a case for the Ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It looks complicated, but also that doesn’t look like a final decision from your adjudicator – worth going back and arguing at that level first!
Nim says
Hi Sara (debt camel),
Yes, this one seems like a difficult one to deal with!, but I also think if it’s a new adjudicator – may not be experienced enough and compared to the response received, not as detailed as the other complaints outcome from other adjudicator for PDL’s. I would have thought even after the 3rd loan Provident should have done more checks and I had 5 big loans in 2009? thereafter, this should have alerted them. However, the error on the dates was pointed out and it was for sure, Just as I checked, loans to be refunded from Oct 2011 and NOT Oct 2014 – only last 3 loans – the adjudicator apologise for the inaccuracy! – not very hopeful, neither with the outcome in the 1st place.
I have also noted that when you do give the adjudicator additional information – the standard reply is ‘ this doesn’t change my opinion’ – which I think is totally out of proportion as they do not want to disagree with their own findings and that they may have missed some subtle information!!
So, I am not sure whether the Ombudsman will have a greater impact on the decision the adjudicator has already made? or hopefully consider differently? is the Ombudsman more through? – just have to wait and see.
Best Nim
Morag says
Nim
That’s the same with mine, is it the same adjucticator,haha!!,I thought you would have got it as your credit file was bad,
Morag
Nim says
Hi Morag, well I am still going to fight it as I have responded with some more points – will be further sending an email to argue my points.
Although it’s still not the final answer as adj is waiting to hear back from provident to see what they agree. I just feel the adj did not do a good report of affordability like the PDL’s.
Best |Nim
Morag says
That’s great, although my adjucticator said that home credit is completely different from payday loans as the amount you pay weekly is small, but if your credit was poor than I do see why not.
He did make a point that smaller loans i.e., £200 to £500 they wouldn’t have to check your credit file????
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The fact they don’t HAVE to check your credit record is the same with payday loans. But the point is that if it appears through repeat borrowing that you are dependent on the loans then they should look more closely at your situation.
1 or 2 loan cases, or cases with large gaps are going to be hard to win.
Sarah Rees says
Hi. Sorry but could one of you possibly send me a copy of the letter you used to send to Provident to complain? I can’t find the templates & am really unsure of how to word it. My email is s4r4hR@mail.com. Would really appreciate it thanks.
Nim says
Hi Sarah, this is what I wrote – ( edit as required) –
I do not believe Provident Personal Credit carried out sufficient checks to show these loans were affordable to me. As such, I am requesting a refund for the interest and charges paid plus statutory interest of 8%.
I have taken out xxxx loans from Provident Personal Credit from period: xxx to xxx.
I have enclosed account statements of account for your reference.
I have fully paid on the account as of xxx – this had taken longer than expected and I contacted Provident over the years that I was having difficulty paying and that I was not able to afford paying standard weekly amount of around £xxx and that I would pay on a monthly basis whatever I could afford. The loan agreement took longer that expected, approx – xxxmonths, instead of around xx months to complete payment.
During the last 6 years – I borrowed from many other Payday Loan lenders to keep up with regular payments to ALL, and trying to escape the high interest trap, borrowing from friends and family and further resorting to bad credit loans. I had bad credit history with CCJ and Default on my credit file. This spiralled into to mounting debts becoming more and unaffordable and increased borrowing and has caused me considerable financial distress over the last 6 years due to their irresponsible lending and inadequate affordability assessments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Nim & Sarah,
another point that is worth making is if you repaid some loans early by borrowing more from the same lender. I’ve just added some example words for this sort of case to the article above.
Andrew says
Hi Sarah.
Just wanted to let people know about my morses club complaint. I have been borrowing with them constantly since 2014. My monthly payments were £458 and after finding this website I put in a complaint the beginning of November. Morses replied after 8 weeks saying the loans were affordable. I sent my complaint to the ombudsman who have rang me this morning. Morses club have offered to clear my outstanding balance of approx £4000 and refund £4292. So I’m pleased with the outcome and was quicker than expected.
Once again thank you Sarah for this wonderful website.
Louisa says
Can I ask how quickly you received the payout after acceptance?
Andrew says
Sorry for late reply
I received a cheque in the post a week after accepting then another 5 days for the cheque to clear
Sam says
I want to make a complaint to Provident for loans dating back from 2009 to current and since 2014, i ve had no less than 3 loans running a one time continual arrears, re financing Managers coming to my house etc. BUT im having a crisis of conscience, basicly i do not want to get the agent in trouble (or involved even though i could add certain things to streghen my complaint) as it turns out they are a friend of a family member and knows a lot of people I know in my community, i dont want any repercussions, also i suspect that due to the FCA investigation this summer, all Provident self employed agents now have to apply for their jobs (job role is changing). Basically i dont want my complaint to be the factor why they have not got a job. On the other hand IF my complaint was to be upheld even if i was only awarded some interest or current loans written off it would be a life changing thing for me! And i really would be debt free or at least in a good position to sort other financial matters out.
I guess i am looking for advice really. I could wait until i know if they will continue to be my agent in the next few months but want to get the process started as i think it will be the 8 weeks with provident, for them to deny complaint then off to the Ombudsman.
This is my first post so i hope that i have submitted correctly.
Regards,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have changed your name as it looked from your email address that you had used your full, real name.
Here are some thoughts:
– nice people can have jobs with distinctly dodgy ethical dimensions. The job of a home collector needs to be reformed and if it can’t be, it should be abolished. So far your collector has had financial incentives to keep offering more money, even when they know you are in trouble, and there have been no/few controls from Provi itself to either limit repeat lending or to do propoer affordability and credit record checks.
– I don’t know what aspects you could mention that would reflect badly on your collector. If it simply that they gave you loans when you were in difficulty, then they aren’t likely to lose their job for that as every collector in the country has done it. If they have suggested/helped you to falsify your application (“I know how to get this approved, you need to say…”, “I expect you’ll get another job soon, so we’ll just put you down as still employed on you previous wage”) or pressured you to pay them when you said you couldn’t to be honest they should be sacked.
– in many ways Provi and the other doorstep lenders are worse than payday lenders because of the personal / community aspect – people try harder to make their repayments even if it means borrowing elsewhere or not paying priority bills such as council tax and utilities. I am not surprised your collector is well known in the area – that’s the hallmark of a successful collector! But they are still leeches that have been charging you and others very high interest for many years and making a living from it.
If you are still borrowing from Provi, then I don’t think waiting is a good idea at all. This is you and your families fiancial future. But I understand your worries, not easy for you.
Patricia says
Could you e mail me the provident complaints form .i am over 70 and just borrowed more money .only wanted 300 but was suggested i borrow more and pay the other off .been borrowing since my husband died 6 years .i cant sleep at night .thinking of the silly thing ive done again .must have paid thousands in interest .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh dear, 6 years is a lot of borrowing. Was there a particular reason you needed the £300? Do you have other debts as well?
LESLEY says
I’m thinking of doing this as i find my payments unaffordable and have not paid the full amount for ages and many of my loans with provident have been piggybacked i also have very bad credit. How do i begin do i ask them for a statement of my account and then write them a letter of complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
HI Lesley,
the template letter for payday loan complaints is in here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. The aryicle above suggests some changes / additions you may want to make to that template to cover points that often arise with doorstep lending.
These templates are only meant to help get you started – change them so they really tell your story!
Debbi says
I sent in a complaint the the FO, re provident I had loans over several years with all rolled over except one, I went into a DMP in 2012 with a debt from provident and 10 payday loans.
I sent in an affordability complaint and this is the reply I got.
~~~~~~~~
your complaint about Provident Personal Credit Limited
Thanks for waiting whilst I’ve been looking over your complaint. I’ve now had a chance to review everything both sides have said. In this case, I won’t be asking Provident to refund anything – I know this isn’t the answer you were hoping for but I’ve explained below why I’ve made this decision.
I think this is a fair outcome in the circumstances, for the reasons I’ve explained. If you decide that you don’t accept my view, then an ombudsman here can look at everything again and make a final decision. Please let me know what you think by 7 April 2017. If I don’t hear back from you by this date then I may not be able to look at your complaint again.
my findings
I’ve considered all the information provided by both parties to decide whether this complaint is one this service can consider.
There are strict time rules governing how long consumers have to make a complaint, after which a business can object to us considering it. These are set out in the regulators – Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) – handbook and we have no choice but to comply with them.
The rules say we can’t look into a complaint if it was made more than:
– six years after the event occurred; or if later
– three years from when the consumer was aware, or ought reasonably to have been
aware, of cause for complaint
From looking at your loan agreements I can see you took our loans with Provident in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. As all loans were taken out more than six years ago, except the 2011 one – under the first part of the rule the complaint has been made out of time
I’ve also considered the second part of the rule to see if it gives you more time. I’ve noted you’ve said you’ve only recently became aware you had cause for complaint.
Provident has provided me with information to show that they were contacted by Step Change Debt Charity in March 2012. It’s for this reason the complaint is out of time on the three year part of the rule as I think it was at this point you would’ve been aware there was cause for concern.
I have considered the loans you took out in 2011 and having done so I’ve relied on the loan agreements that are available. The loan agreements state that you were in full time employment earning £500 per week with a disposable amount of £350 and £360 respectively.
I haven’t found any evidence to show that Provident should’ve been concerned about the affordability of the loans as all your payments had been made on time and after completing income and expenditure there was enough money to repay the loan. I’ve also noted that you’ve said the paperwork was often completed beforehand and you merely signed – but I think here; if you concerns about signing the agreements there was no obligation to do so.
Overall, having considered everything I can’t fairly say Provident has done anything wrong. Yours sincerely
~~~~~~
I have replied and asked it to be escalated , that I was not aware in 2012 when I entered a DMP with stepchange that I could complain re affordability.
That none of the loans except the first were paid in full, that there were missed payments and each loan rolled over.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could add that the fact you talked to StepChange, a well-respected advice agency, about your finances and they never told you you had a possible affordability complaint shows that this sort of complaint was not common knowledge in 2012!
lei williams says
Hi there , I’m looking for some advice I’ve only just been made aware that I could possibly reclaim interest paid on provident loan’s, I had 2-3 loans from provident every year since I was 18 I’m now 28 a single parent on benefits….I often struggle to repay hence being offered and accepting a larger loan to clear the outstanding & then I’m left with more debt, and then end up with more loans from provident, could anybody please give me a template to use as I haven’t a clue where to start with this thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A template to start with is in this post https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. That is for payday loans but it’s easy to change for Provident loans:
– You need to delete the word payday from it!
– And then add any specific points about your borrowing Provident loans. The article above lists the sort of things that often happened with doorstep lending so think if any of them applied to you and if they did, add a sentence about it.
Yours sounds like a very good case! If you were struggling with a repayment you should have been offered the chance to repay the debt more slowly over a longer period or signposted to a debt advice agency. You should NOT have been offered a larger loan to repay your current one and borrow some more.
anna320 says
I have recently complained to Provident regarding irresponsible lending. They came back pretty quick to say that they would not uphold the claim. I have now referred it to the FOS so fingers crossed they will respond quickly and in my favour!
Has anyone had any joy with a successful claim from Provident?
Nim says
Hi Anna, only partially – case is gone to ombudsman. adjudicator agreed to refund 4/15 loans – did not agree with him and provident did not agree to refund this.
So waiting to hear from ombudsman – and loans from 2007 – 2011.
Best Nim
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There have been several reported here. And more have been published by the Ombudsman.
anna320 says
These make for interesting reading Sarah! It gives me hope mine will be upheld but who knows?!
Anna
John says
I am awaiting a cheque for £1342 from provident. I was turned down flat by them so off to the ombudsmen, the adjudicator agreed with them so I asked for it to go upstairs so to speak and the ombudsman agreed with me and ordered them to refund me
Kay M says
Hi I just wanted some advice, I took a provident loan out in 2015 for £350 over 52 weeks, total to repay was £637.00, then I was contacted by provident adviser stating I could have another loan as I had paid so much of this one off. She came out to the house and provided loan of £700 over 63 weeks! – total to repay was £1323.00. Not once I was asked for proof of income after the first loan. Everything was going fine until March 2016, my fiance has left me, I was going through a really tough time and needed funds ASAP – the lady came to the house and said she’d have to give me several small loans in order for me to be able to get a loan…..very strange. anyway looking back she actually gave me 5 separate loans in March 2016, 4th March she set me up with £500 over 84 weeks, 300 over 63 weeks, 500 over 63 weeks, 500 over 84 weeks and then on the 10th March another 400 over 63 weeks, in this month I think I was only given around £500 worth of funds in cash our of the new £2200 worth of loans provided….again no ID or proof was requested. Sometimes outgoing figures were changed by the agent to make my applications look more appealing but how do you prove this…..I then had to go on getting payday loans from Sunny and Pounds to pocket to help with general needs and household bills….I now have over £2715 still owed to provident and over £1500’s worth of payday loans…
My income had decreased in the second loan and outgoings went up after my fiancé left me…but no proof of income or benefits was requested on the second loan. They just used the same income as the first as I was full time employed.
Does anyone think I should contact provident and put in a complaint or…….???
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then that sounds like a reasonable complaint for the second loan and a very good one for the recent one!
Kay M says
THIS IS A HUGE REPLY FROM PROVIDENT …What should I do now???
——————————————————
[edited]
After reviewing the repayments made towards each of your agreements I have confirmed the available information would have indicated the loan repayments were affordable. Prior to your most recent loan issue, our records confirm over 101 weeks you have made regular repayments at your weekly rate, with only one reduced payment and nine missed payments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Kay,
at a mere 900 words, that still has a long way to go to complete with the record of over 2,000 words sent by one payday lender :)
I have deleted all the general stuff that applies to everyone. As you can see, there isn’t much left about your specific case…
It sounds as though you had a couple (or more?) loans before your last one which is still running? Could you give a short account of these – how many loans, were some loans to repay previous ones and borrow a bit more? did your collector know you were struggling ? was a new loan suggested because of this? Check the bullet points in the article above – do any of them apply to you?
These are very individual cases, if you were trying to explain to a friend just why you feel you shouldn’t have been given the loans, what points would you make?
Kay M says
Hi Sara
I would list the following points.
1.Your agent did not request a list of other borrowing needs
2. No updated ID or income was required
3. All loans were taken to refinance other loans
4. Using payday loans as a regular income – told not to include this.
5. Tops ups constantly offered
6. Your agent knew I had recently split from fiancé therefore income had decreased. No proof of income requested.
7. Each loan was over a longer and long net period
8. Collector aware of reduced financial status
9. You applied me with 3 loans on one day
10. Provided 4 loans in 1 week how is this responsible lending?
11. These loans are the cause of my financial debt spiral
12. Very quickly became unaffordable and had to set up alternative payment which now is unaffordable due to more pay day loans I had to take out.
????
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sounds a very good case to go to the Financial Ombudsman! See the section in this article which describes how to send your case, what details to include and how the FO works in general: https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/.
Kay M says
Just wanted to update you on how my claim was coming on, logged complaint in May to FOC my adjudicator emailed to introduce himself on Friday 07/07/2017. He request some additional details like credit report which I have sent. He has informed me that provident have came back to him with their response and he’s hoping to come back to me with an answer in the next couple of weeks. Fingers crossed for some good new finally !!!!! I’ll keep you all posted on the out come.
Gareth parry says
Hello everyone, so I’ve had a complaint with Fo since September last year and I feel it is dragging on as originally my adj said that they would not look at loans from over 6 years old,after reading on here that wasn’t the case I wrote back after receiving adjudicator response saying that they won’t uphold my complaint this is the reply
your complaint about Provident Personal Credit Limited
Thank you for waiting while I’ve been looking into your complaint.
I’ve now looked at all the information that you and the business have given me. Based on what I’ve seen, I think the business has dealt with your complaint fairly – so I’m not asking them to do anything.
I know this isn’t the answer you were hoping for. But I’ve explained below why I think this is the right outcome – taking into account everything that’s happened.
your complaint
You believe Provident were irresponsible in giving you a number of loans between 2006 and 2010.
my findings
loans taken in 2006
You’ll recall from my email to you of 6 October 2016 that I explained why I’m not able to look at your complaint about the two loans taken in 2006. To recap, these loans were taken out before we got jurisdiction in April 2007 to consider these types of loans.
loans taken in 2007,2008 and 2009
I asked Provident if they’d give consent to us considering the loans taken out in these years. But they don’t agree because these loans were taken out more than six years before you raised your complaint. We can’t look at a complaint if the event – in this case the sale of the loan[s] – happened more than six years ago. If the event did happen more than six years ago, we also have to consider if you raised the complaint more than three years after you became aware you had a cause for complaint.
We’re currently considering if Provident is right in saying this and I’ll be in touch as soon as I can about these. However from your two emails to me on 6 October 2016, it appears that you don’t want to continue your complaint about the four loans taken out between 2007 and 2009. But please can you confirm if I’ve understood this correctly.
loan taken in 2010
I’ve examined your bank statements and credit file along with information from the business.
Your bank statements indicate that you were getting paid weekly and your approximate monthly take home pay was about £1100. You had credit cards with Vanquis Bank and Capital One and you were paying combined sums of about £22 per month for these cards. And the only other credit agreements you had at the time seems to have been the previous loans with Provident. So from what I see, your bank statements and credit file doesn’t suggest that there was any information on them that would have been a trigger for Provident not to give you the loan.
I’ve considered too that you already had a relationship with Provident, so they’d have known how you’d conducted your agreements with them. And from what I can see, you did miss some payments on the existing loans, but in the main, you made regular payments to your agreements with them. And the loan given to you in 2010 was used to repay some existing borrowing so it doesn’t appear that your financial commitments increased as a result of that loan.
my conclusions
Overall, when I look at your bank statements, credit file and how you conducted existing accounts with Provident, there’s nothing to suggest that Provident shouldn’t have given you further money in September 2010.
So at this stage, I can’t see that the business was wrong for giving you further finance in September 2010. And because of that, I’m not asking the business to do anything.
After reading the new section regarding doorstep loans today I think my adjudicator might have been wrong in her assessment. Prior to the loan in 2010 I had missed 15 payments and was 3 month’s behind on the open loans from 2008/2009 which I used the loan from 2010 to pay off.
Really not confident on winning the complaint as it seems to me that I’m way overdue for an Ombudsman to pick up the case.
Any advice sara?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
First older loans. If the 2010 loan you took out was refinancing the 2007 and 2008 loans (it sounds as though it was but you need to be clear on this) then you have a very good case for asking the Ombudsman to look at the older loans. Explain to your adjudicator that you feel because the later loan refinanced then they should all be considered as a single case and it is the end point of the last loan that matters for the 6 year rule. There is a legal case that can be used to support this argument (Patel v Patel [2009]). This is in addition to the standard “I had no idea I could complain” argument that the Ombudsman is usually accepting for payday loans.
“Prior to the loan in 2010 I had missed 15 payments and was 3 month’s behind on the open loans from 2008/2009 which I used the loan from 2010 to pay off.” I think you should list these out, literally month by month every payment you missed, and send this to the adjudicator saying you think that is a track record showing you were in serious difficulty and could this be passed to the Ombudsman.
Gareth says
The adjudicator has all my payment history from prov as they provided it to her so she could see where and when I had missed payments my complaint is about irresponsible lending and I have explained that while loans from 2008/2009 may have been ok the last loan wasn’t as to fact I was 3 month’s behind with payments and I had missed 15 payments before taking out the last loan so the older loans were important to my complaint even if they couldn’t make a ruling on,at that point she told me that due to my change of mind that she had taken my complaint back from an Ombudsman and put it back in the holding pool!, fast forward and my complaint is now with someone else who I spoke to in December and aint heard from since lol
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well, it’s up to you if you don’t want the older loans considered.
Where you think an adjudicator had the facts but missed the point it is always worth spelling this out in great detail. Don’t just assume the ombudsman isn’t going to make the same mistake. I really suggest you should reply saying: “You can see from my records that I missed payments to the 2007 and 2008 loans on the following occasions:
12/12/08
3/2/09
3/5/09 etc etc”
Tom says
Hi has anyone had a successful reclaim with Naylors Doorstep Loans? I currently have a case with an adjudicator.
Chris says
So i emailed Loans at Home, the rung me and said that I had no case as this only applies to pay day lenders, i tried telling her otherwise but she just kept quoting legislation
So i have emailed them again, stating that i am claiming interest on all loans that i have had with them, i have also advised them that any future corrospondance should be in writting only and that i am not willing to discuss it over the telephone
I believe they were just trying to fob me off, i wont go away that easily
fingers crossed
Tom says
Hi Chris yes just sounds like they are fobbing you off to me. I have heard success stories about some doorstep loan reclaims. I currently have one with an adjudicator against Naylors Finance after they sent me a standard letter denying any wrong doing. I waited until their 8 week deadline was up then submitted my complaint to the financial ombudsman and has now recently been picked up by an adjudicator who is looking into it now. I paid around £450 in interest altogether on 4 loans I had with them in the space of 1 year just under 6 years ago so I am looking to claim that back plus 8% statutory interest. I had many other debts at the time including payday loans and credit cards so if they had done proper checks they should never have lent to me. Just need to be patient as it could take a while but be worth it in the end if you get a positive outcome.
Good luck! :)
Chris says
Yeah absolutely worth the wait!
I have no idea what the interest would be, but i remeber the loans normally being double what i borrowed, so on that basis, its over £4000 in interest!
Ill just have to be patient and go to the FO if they dont accept it
Good luck to you too
Gareth says
Check this out everyone
Mrs N complained to our service. Provident agreed that we could consider all of the loans,
including the ones which were more than six years old.
From the Ombudsman decision database itself.
I believe a precedent has now been set by provident.
Correct me if I’m wrong
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s not strictly a precedent – the Ombudsman doesn’t work like that. But Provi have agreed to some loans over 6 years being considered in some other cases as well.
Gareth says
Well then Provident should treat everyone the same and not pick and choose as they are treating people differently and not being fair to everyone by equal and as they have allowed more than a few complaints they now from my eyes to be unable to deny anyone who has a complaint with loans over the 6 year rule.
Morag says
Hi Anna,
Mine was taken to an ombudsman and still waiting for a final decision, did call them and they said hopefully an answer in a couple of weeks. What stage r u at ????
This has been with the FOS for 1 year! The only good thing will be that I am getting an extra years interest?
Not heard from Nim yet!
Nim says
HI Morag
was just on the quiet side as nothing had come through till last Friday when my case was with the Ombudsman and adjudicator wrote that the ombudsman required more information and to be satisfied that my loans were unaffordable – so wanted more details of my financial history etc and as I was on JSA for 15 months or so. I have sent further information weekend, so fingers crossed, I get more from the Ombudsman, as the adjudicator did not look at all the loans even though both parties agreed to look at loans from 2007 onwards. This is my biggest claim! so really hoping for the best .
Best Nim
Anna says
Hi Morag!
I contacted Provident who didn’t want to know so it is now with the FOS. The investigator has been dealing with my case since 11th April and I received an email from him last Wednesday so 10 May say that he was working on my case and was hopeful to have an outcome by Monday 15th May depending on whether he needed further clarity from Provident. Do you know why your case taking so long?
Anna
Morag says
Hi
I think it was because I had loans with them pre 2010!!!
And after all of that I was only awarded the loans from 2014!
But anything is better than nothing. And as you know the interest is very high. I took a loan for £2500 and paid the same amount in interest.
Hopefully everything will go well with your case
Anna says
Thanks I also have had Loans prior to 2010 it will be interesting to see how far back they look and yes the interest is ridiculous!! I will keep you posted!
Nim says
Hi Anna,
how many loans did you have and over what period? and how much interest have you paid?
yes, if provident disagrees, like they did to my adjudicator’s decision, even though it was for only 3/14 loans, it’s now with the ombudsman, as I disagreed too. Hoping to get more loans refunded and mine loans were from 2007 -2011.
best Nim
Morag says
Nim
How long has ur complaint been with the ombudsman
Morag
Nim says
Hi Morag,
only just passed on last week, as they asked for more information.
So , I hope by the end of next week should have a final decision from the ombudsman, and hope it’s a good one!!
best Nim
Morag says
Hopefully! Mine has been 1 month now with the ombudsman but, not so far, asked for any additional info!
Anna says
Hi Nim
I am not sure exactly how many loans but they date back to at least 2007 though Provident would only provide me with the information for loans from 2011! I have paid at least around 7,000 in interest and my current loans i am paying a reduced amount.
Anna
Nim says
Hi Anna, ok.
You can ask the adjudicator of the loan details which they should have received from Provident, as I did, and it’s helpful to see what interest you have paid and all loan information. Request it.
This will be a break through if the Ombudsman finds in my favour all loans except from 2007 – as ruling does not allow them to consider any loan before April 2007. I have 14 loans minus one from 2006 can be looked at as agreed by provident in my case and the adjudicator.
Fingers crossed! and wish you all the best.
Nim
Anna says
Thanks Nim
I will definitely request that information. Hopefully I will hear something tomorrow,
Morag says
Nim
Any luck yet with ur complaint
Anna says
Hi Morag and Nim
I have had the assessment back from the adjudicator today stating Provident should refund me interest and charges on loans taken out after March 2011, he said Loans prior to this wouldn’t be considered but suggested they refund interest on loans taken out before March 2011 but only interest paid from March 2011 if that makes sense plus 8%. He is hopeful they will agree but I am not so sure as it’s quite a lot of interest they will need to pay out, As I still have 2 loans running he said that I will need to pay the capital back out of any refund to clear the loans minus the interest, Provident have til 8th June to respond but he thinks they may ask for an extension! I will keep you posted. Does anyone know if the ombudsman ever override the adjudicators decision or do they usually agree?
Kind regards
Anna
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The most common outcome is that they agree. Sometimes the Ombudsman changes the start date refunds are paid from, either making it earlier (so the refund is bigger) or later (so the refund is less).
Morag says
Provident and Greenwoods…
Finally received a decision with the ombudsman and she has agreed with the adjucticator. It’s been exactly 1 year ! Still to received a breakdown what I am due.
Also I am now think of tackling my credit union with regards to the affordability of a few loans I received from them.Anyone else had any dealings with them.
I did received money due from shop direct, capital one and my overdraft from my bank. All postitive??
Anna says
Morag that is great news! Frustrating to think this could have been resolved a year ago though! Provident came back to the FOS querying dates of the first 4 Loans I had as they were taken out prior to March 2011 the FOS suggested they refund interest paid as of March 2011 however as the interest was preloaded they were querying the decision. The Adjudicator rewrote his assessment taking out the first 4 Loans and Provident now have until Friday to respond.
Anna
Morag says
Hopefully good news for you too. I suppose that’s an extra years interest to get!
Have you had any dealings with credit unions ? With the affordability of loans??
Anna says
Thanks Morag I’m keeping everything crossed! No I haven’t had any dealings with credit unions but good luck!
Morag says
Hi
That’s been a week now, still waiting, I called today but nothing as yet!!! Also had a letter from shop direct. About a month ago they accepted my complaint and I received £1000 off my balance, leaving £2000 to pay. I asked for a breakdown , which they could not give me, I complained and today they have said they r wiping off my full balance??, therefore nothing to pay. How strange???
Tackling my last one , the credit union.
U had any other results??
Anna says
Hi Morag
Well that’s a result I wouldn’t complain ?, now the FOS have upheld your claim with Provident do you deal with Provident direct or does it all still go through the FOS, The FOS are chasing Provident as they haven’t heard back from them so hopefully should hear soon. Don’t know why they just can’t pay out and get it sorted?!!! ?
Anna
Anna
Morag says
Hi
The case is now closed and they have 4 weeks to payout! If not you go back to the adjucticator. They pay you by cheque!!!???
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think I have seen a complaint against a credit union mentioned here. Their interest rates are so much lower and they often go into a lot more detail on income & expenses than other lenders.
Nim says
Hi Morag,
well that’s good! So how many loans did they agree? and did the ombudsman agree to more that the adjudicator? and over what period?
How much do you think you are due?
I am still waiting – looks like I should hear next?
Best Nim
Morag says
Hi
All my loans were from 2014. Ombudsman agreed with adjucticator, still waiting to c how much I am due. I had loans from 2008 but said they were affordable!!!
Have U had any dealings with credit unions???
Nim says
Hi Morag,
Ok. Well at least you get something. If you ask them to send a summary of your statements from provident, you should be able to see how much you will get.
And sorry, no dealing with credit unions.
Best Nim
Anna says
Hi Morag
Have you heard from Provident how much you will get yet or are they still working it out?!! Provident had til 23rd to get back to FOS and they have had to chase them today as no news….not sure if that’s a good thing or not!!
Anna
Morag says
Hi
Just waiting for them to work out what’s due. Any word
Neil says
I have finally received some details regarding my loans with Provident the information they have given me only mentions a quarter of the loans I had with them, I have submitted a complaint to them with the information I have asking them to look at the loans I had in the last six years. I am still paying the balance off at an agreed weekly amount 3 years after I took out my last loan. In one 18 month period I was given 11 loans that I have a record of totaling £5900 with a weekly payment of £90.00 per week. I will update when I get a reply.
Wendy says
Please let me know how you get on I’m just in the process of asking for my information of loans I’ve had them since 2000 I pay 90 pound a week
Neil says
Will do. Check your information when you get it,when I checked against the paperwork I had they had missed half the loans off.
Wendy says
Yeah I will do thanks. My agents leaves next week I can’t wait as I have been putting off getting in touch complaining as she’s a friend but I can’t afford to keep paying 90 a week and they have never checked my details in the whole time of me having them
Wendy says
Just received my information they have sent me the last 6 years worth as they say that’s all they hold so I’m going to send a email later about irresponsible lending they can see some weeks I wasn’t paying and as soon as my loans were half way I’d renew them as I needed more money I will keep u informed
Anna says
Hi the FOS wouldn’t consider Loans older than 6 years for mine
Wendy says
I thought that but even with these it’s worth putting in a complaint
Nim says
Hi Anna,
is this for Provident?
if that’s the case, my adjudicator did consider as well as provident who agreed. Still waiting for final outcome from Ombudsman.
Best Nim
Anna says
Hi Nim
Yes it is Provident. The FOS adjudicator suggested they refund me all charges from March 2011 and any loans that were taken out prior to March 2011 they requested they refund me as of March 2011. Provident came back to FOS querying loans taken out before 2011 and the FOS went in favour of Provident stating that interest was preloaded so wouldn’t refund as loans taken out prior to 2011. Now waiting to hear providents decision on rest of Loans!!
Anna
Anna says
Hi Nim and Morag
Provident have agreed to uphold my claim and I am due a refund of interest approx 5800, could take up to 4 weeks to receive cheque. Have either of you received payment yet??
Anna
Morag says
Anna,
That’s great, I’m going on my third week. Don’t know what I’m due! Was that result with the adjucticator or ombudsman.
Cheers
Morag
Lisa says
Hi,
Would this letter be sufficient for a provident complaint?
To Whom It May Concern,
I wish to place an affordability complaint against your company for irresponsible lending.
I have had at least 11 loans from you between May 2007 and Aug 2011. There may have been loans before or after these dates but without Statements of Accounts for my history with yourselves I can only account for these.
I had been borrowing quite often usually taking another loan to repay the one before, I believe my initial 2 loans to have been affordable but subsequent loans were not, and the amounts tended to go up. Your loans trapped me into a debt spiral, with the repayment taking so much of my wages that I had to borrow again to cover my next month’s living costs initially I was borrowing from friends and family but eventually had to resort to other financial parties such as payday lenders.
For this initial period, my income averaged about £800 a month.
I was a single parent of a 4-year-old when taking out the first loan and had child benefit and credits which averaged about £200 a month.
My living expenses were roughly: rent/mortgage £300. Council tax £60. Utilities and bills £250. Transport costs £40. Clothes £30. Food, toiletries £200. Child expenses £10 Other debt repayments £200. Total £1090 per month. This shows that there was no way I could afford these loans. I was advised not to include my other debt repayments for my catalogues and credit cards so I would have a disposable income.
After my initial loan, I wasn’t asked to complete further income/expenditure sheets and until I eventually resorted to a DMP with Stepchange I had the same agent. When I repaid the loans, it was usually early and with monies obtained from a further loan.
You should have realised from the number of times I rolled loans and borrowed again that my debt problems were getting worse and it was not responsible to continue to lend to me. The loan I took out in Feb 2011 was alongside a previous loan totalling over £3000 it was around this time I lost my job and ended up back on benefits, but your agent didn’t care as long as I met the repayments so her commission wasn’t affected, which I did for as long as I could causing other debts to keep mounting.
My credit reports would have shown my other debt repayments and problems including late payments and defaults the largest of which was a bank loan for over £10,000.
You should never have given me these unaffordable loans. I would like to ask you to refund the interest and extra charges I paid. The Financial Ombudsman suggests that statutory interest is added to this sort of refund.
I only found out I could make this sort of irresponsible lending complaint around a week ago. Even when I took out my Debt Management Plan with Stepchange I wasn’t made aware that I could undertake a complaint for affordability on any of my loans. I understand the Financial Ombudsman will consider all my loans, including those that are more than 6 years old.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That looks fine. You might clarify “I was advised not to include my other debt repayments for my catalogues and credit cards so I would have a disposable income.” to say who advised you to do this – was it your agent?
Lisa says
Yeah it was the agent who advised that.
Thanks have sent it off. At the end f the day i have nothing to lose and lots to gain and hopefully even though they are older than 6 years i am still paying the last 2 of these loans through a DMP.
Will let you know if and when i hear anything.
grace says
I have received a call from Provident this morning saying they have investigated and 4 out of god knows how many loans should not have been given and enclosing a cheque for £3,600. Does this sound correct? as I know for a fact I had lots of loans spanning 2012 to 2016?? And should I not be offered a settlement form to sign to agree? Thank you for your advice
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it could be good, but who knows? I suggest you call them and say you can’t accept their offer until they have sent you a complete statement of account showing all your borrowing and what you have repaid.
Wendy says
When did u start your complaint. It depends how much your looking to get back I have worked out I’ve had over 16000 pounds of loans but if I was offered that amount I’d take it x
Grace says
I sent my complaint 8 weeks ago I’m happy with the outcome as it’s money I never thought I would get but I had loans from 2012 to 2016 the refund is for four loans and I had a lot more than that! I will ask for a breakdown x
Grace says
Thanks Wendy I’m happy with the outcome and the time it has taken as other complaints I have took ages x
Wendy says
Awe happy for you. I emailed Wednesday I haven’t even had a reply to say they received my complaint hope it doesn’t take too long x
grace says
I did chase it up a lot and sent an email to the Managing Director Peter Crook!!! I truly believe they should have given me any of the loans because of the financial situation I was in so to get something back is a bonus!! Good luck x
Nim says
Hi Grace, how odd??!! – But at least they offered you something! Most cases on here are fighting with the Ombudsman for final decision even though the adjudicator was in favour and upheld the complaints.
Just waiting for final decision as it’s gone to the Ombudsman around early May!! – just frustrating now!
Best
Nim
grace says
Hi Nim I found it quite odd as I didn’t have to sign a settlement form and although I received a 5 page letter!!! there were no breakdowns of any loans from 2012 to 2016 it just mentioned I had four loans in one month!!! and a cheque enclosed. Now I am wondering whether to get the FO to look at ALL the loans as well. I hope you get a positive answer soon xx
Anna says
Hi Morag
This was the result of the Adjudicator, thankfully it never went to Ombudsman. I received an email with a breakdown of calculations from the FOS and an acceptance form to print off and sign, but I am querying the figure as I think they haven’t refunded the interest in the current loans I have. Anyway happy with the outcome hopefully you will hear soon
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Any interest you paid on outstanding loans should be included in refund (which of course is used to first repay outstanding loan). Unless it has been decided that current loan is “affordable” which is very rare!
(I’m sure you know this, I’m just saying for anyone else who is reading and wondering.)
Anna says
Hi Sara
Thanks for that. I have just over £1800 from 2 current loans which they say has to be paid back out of the redress which is fine but one loan was for £1000 and the other £700 which makes me think the £1800 listed to be repaid includes the interest?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have a statement of account showing what you paid to all loans? If you do, this is what you need to add up:
All interest and charges on loans which have been repaid. (Often it’s easier to get this figure by adding up all the amounts you borrowed and all the amounts you repaid, then the difference between these figures is interest and charges.)
Then take the two outstanding loans separately and work out how much you borrowed (ignore any interest added) and how much you have repaid. If you have repaid more than you borrowed, the loan is wiped and any extra goes into the refund. If you have repaid less than you borrowed, then the balance gets reduced to that amount.
So if you borrowed £1000 and have repaid £1100, the loan is wiped and £100 gets added to the refund pot. If you had only paid £400 back, the loan gets reduced to £600 to be paid from the refund on previous loans.
(This is a simple approach. There are other ways to calculate it but this one gets you very close – it isn’t strictly accurate because it doesn’t account for the 8% interest on the recent loans, but that will usually be small.)
Is that clear?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“one loan was for £1000 and the other £700 which makes me think the £1800 listed to be repaid includes the interest?” That doesn’t sound right. Interest has to be removed. It is just about possible they are crediting you with the interest into the refund amount, but it sounds more likely that they are wrong.
Wendy says
I’ve just looked through my loans they sent me from 2009 to now I had 4 on the go and everytime say my loan was*800 everytime it got to 400 I renewed and it went up and this happened on every loan near enough so when I was renewing I was never getting the full amount as I had pay the other off. Really hoping I have a good case fingers crossed x
neil says
I have submitted a complaint to Provident and I am waiting for their reply, can I request that collections be suspended while my complaint is being considered I pay a fixed amount each week on a payment arrangement agreed with them ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you afford the payment arrangement? If you can, it’s usually simpler to let it continue, but if you can’t ask for it to be reduced or suspended.
neil says
It is a struggle to pay it, I will ask for them to reduce it.
veronica moss says
I sent provident this 2 weeks ago.
I am emailing to request a statement of all loans taken out with you by myself. I am also requesting a refund of interest paid plus the statutory interest of 8%. As i believe you to have acted as an irresponsible lender.
I first became a customer when an agent turned up at the door offering vouchers, This soon spiralled out of control as i was able to take out loan after loan even at times having 3 loans in place at once. In around 2005 i got a secured loan and paid off all my loans with you. It wasnt long after when i started gettig phone calls and agent knocking on door saying manager is mithering for me to take out a loan. This lead to the same again. There was a time when i had to reduce my payments as was struggling and ended up with mortgage arrears but yet was still allowed to renew loans with you and refinancing to get by. It is hard to get out of a situation when loans are getting offered to you by texts and emails especially if having a bad week. Being a self employed taxi driver there were times when vehicle was off the road and had no income at all and when explaining i cant afford to pay to be told i have to pay something. This lead to me paying by cheque to give me a bit of extra time to get the money in the bank but by the next week i would have to find the money to cover the cheque and also the next payment. This is now causing me sleepless nights and distress and it is mainly down to irresponsible lending and inadequate affordability assessments on your side. My credit rating is also at a low and has been for a while.
Gareth says
Hello I’ve been waiting for my complaint to get to an ombudsman for ages so I rang up 2 weeks ago the lady on the phone told me no adjudicator was in charge of my case as it was now in the pool for an ombudsman rang up this week and asked was there anything that would speed up the process and I was considering dropping 2 older loans 2008 2009 from my complaint. The lady said she was disappointed and felt it was a shame because the ombudsman would consider them all I didn’t agree to do anything at that point as she said she would get in touch with the specialist team in charge and get them to contact me in regards to if there was anything to speed the process up.
Yesterday I received this from the adjudicator
your complaint about Provident Personal Credit Limited
I understand from your recent call to us a couple of days ago that you’d like the investigation of your complaint resolved. And because of the time it’ll take for us to resolve the issue over your older loans, you’re happy for us not to include them in the investigation. So I’ve reviewed your complaint regarding the loan you took out in September 2010.
Based on what I’ve seen, I think the business has dealt with your complaint fairly – so I’m not asking them to do anything.
I know this isn’t the answer you were hoping for. But I’ve explained below why I think this is the right outcome – taking into account everything that’s happened.
your complaint
You believe the business shouldn’t have given you the loan because you couldn’t afford it. You’d like the business to refund interest and charges added to the loan and to remove it from your credit file.
my findings
In September 2010, you consolidated two previous loans into a new loan. And at the same time you borrowed an additional amount. So your new loan was for £2,500 and when interest was added, you had to repay a total amount of £5,300. You agreed to repay this sum by 106 weekly instalments of £50 each – in total £200 per month.
what did the business have to do
A financial business can make commercial decisions about whom to lend to and how much. But before agreeing to lend, the business has to check that the borrower could afford to make the repayments. And the checks they do must be proportionate.
When considering a complaint, our Service looks at whether the business did the checks, which are proportionate to things like – but not limited to – the size of the loan, the repayments, what it knows about the consumer, and the things the consumer told it about their circumstances.
If the checks the business did were enough, we won’t usually say that they shouldn’t have agreed the loan.
If we don’t think the checks were enough, and we feel that more proportionate checks would have revealed you couldn’t have afforded the loan, we’ll ask the business to put things right.
what did the business do?
The business says that after the visit with you, the agent submitted your details to their internal database, they collated it against their application and accounting systems and a credit search was also done. Then the agent revisited you to make an assessment of your capacity to understand the information that came with the credit agreement and to take further personal details from you including proof of ID and documentation of your income and expenses and your suitability for the loan.
was this enough? why?
Unfortunately, the business hasn’t sent me evidence of these checks. So I can’t be certain of what information they had at the time of agreeing the loan. And in the absence of evidence to show me what checks the business did, I have to conclude at this stage that the checks weren’t enough.
So I’ve looked at your credit file to see what information was on there that would have been a trigger for the business not to give you the loan. And I’ve not seen anything negative on it from around that time. You had a Capital One credit card and a Vanquis credit card. But I can’t see that any adverse information was recorded about them at that time.
I’ve also looked at your bank statements to see how your financial circumstances stood at the time. They show that you were getting paid weekly and from around the middle of September 2010 you were getting roughly £292.78 per week – so on average that works out to be about £1268 per month. But you were also getting additional sums from your employer and many weeks you were getting much more than £292.78 a week. In fact over a four month period between July and October 2010, you took home £1600 a month on average. And I can’t ignore that.
I don’t know what expenses you gave the business at the time you applied for the loan, so I’ve taken into account the expenditure figures you gave me in your email of 4 January 2017. And I’ve also taken into account the amounts shown on your bank statements for payments to your credit commitments. I also see that you were giving Lauran Parry £30 each week, so I’ve included those payments too. That comes to about £1106 per month. So I’m minded to think this was the expenses figure you’d likely have given the business back in September 2010. When I deduct £1106 for expenses from your income of £1600, then that leaves disposable income of about £494, which was sufficient to cover your monthly payments on the loan.
my conclusions
So having reviewed your complaint about the loan taken in September 2010, I don’t feel that the business acted inappropriately in giving it to you or that it was unaffordable. So I’m not asking the business to do anything.
what happens next
If you don’t want to take your complaint further, you don’t need to reply.
But if you don’t agree with what I’ve said, please let me know why by Thursday 20 July 2017. I’ll look at any new information you give me and let you know what I think.
If we don’t hear from you by Thursday 20 July 2017, we might not be able to look at your complaint again. So if you want to reply but you think you’ll need longer, please tell me as soon as possible.
In every case, both the business and their customer can ask an ombudsman to make a final decision. But I think it’s unlikely the outcome would be different – unless there’s any important information that you haven’t already given us.
If you have any questions, please get in touch.
Regards
My complaint is about irresponsible lending why is she solely focused on affordibility she seems to contradict herself from earlier emails
Very frustrating now this process is that email totally deflated me and if I disagree again I’m back to square 1 waiting for an ombudsman again this compliant has been with them since sept/Oct 2016
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you only had three loans, then you really do want them all looked at together. Just looking at the last loan on its own doesn’t give the full picture. The Ombudsman needs to feel that the business should have known from its own records and the credit checks it made on you that you were in trouble. It’s hard to win a one loan case!
“My complaint is about irresponsible lending why is she solely focused on affordibility” I am not sure what evidence you produced of “irresponsible lending” that didn’t relate to “affordability”?
If these loans were affordable for you, then you are not likely to win a complaint. Is there something missing from the figures the adjudicator gave? Some debts not taken into account? regular payment to gambling? What was the “spare” money going on? Was your overdraft increasing during this time?
Did Provi ask for detailed expenses from you? Or was this just done for the first loan and not later ones and your situation had changed? Or did your agent tell you what to put down on the form? I don’t know if you have made these sort of details points but they can help a lot with doorstep lending cases.
Gareth says
Unfortunately, the business hasn’t sent me evidence of these checks. So I can’t be certain of what information they had at the time of agreeing the loan. And in the absence of evidence to show me what checks the business did, I have to conclude at this stage that the checks weren’t enough. Also I didn’t complete an expenditure form just what I had coming in how can she say that the checks weren’t enough then agree that they done everything correct? Lol prior to last loan I had missed 15 payments and was 2/3 months behind on the 2 loans before the last loan and no derailed checks carried out.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you need to ask for all three loans to be considered together, not this one on its own. Missed payments and being in arrears should have suggested you had problems.
BUT you also need an answer to the issue of your actual expenses. Do you agree with what the adjudicator wrote? If not, what is being missed or misinterpreted?
Gareth says
They were all in one complaint the 3 loans already I merely
Rang up FO this week asking what my options for trying to get the process speeded up a little due to my current financial situation being quite bad right now.
the extra money i recieved wasn’t always a given as it was overtime and never guaranteed as an extra source of income and she based her findings over just a 3 month period I can’t provide extra information on this as in 2009/2010 I always paid for my living expenses in cash and I don’t know how I’m gonna prove otherwise
Sara (Debt Camel) says
From what you copied out, it looks as though the adjudicator only considered one loan that was under 6 years? There is no reference there to the problems you had had repaying the earlier loans, which the adjudicator should have considered.
If you only gave 3 months of bank statements it is going to be hard to win a complaint :(
Why is your current situation bad? Do you have a lot of current debt?
Gareth says
I gave her bank statements going back to 2007 cost 8 quid to send them off last year lol my current situation I have an amigo loan 2k outstanding dmp with my partner 4.5k outstanding and 4 payday loans all on agreements to pay reduced amounts just barely getting by but it’s been like this since Xmas and it’s wearing me down hence the reason for my call to see about speedING up the process I’ll link the 1st time she responded below
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is your DMP with? Are the payday loans included in that? Have you put in affordability complaints about the payday loans?
Gareth says
Dfh, no they aren’t dont want to keep adding to that or it will never go down
I complained to 2 of the 4 back last year and
Both refunded me or reduced balance just found it odd that they lent to me again considering I had previously complained to them all of my other payday loan companies I complained to last year won’t touch me since
Morag says
Provident no answering their calls from Friday???
Wendy says
There changing over and really busy it says on there page. Send a email might be better
Nim says
Hi Morag, so do you know how much you will be getting now?
any news? Am still waiting!
Best
Nim
Morag says
Still waiting, although I dont think the interest is as much as I thought as I paid these loans half way through then got another one☹️Still anything is better than nothing.
Fos gave until 20 th to settle. They told me it was to the 27th so I had to get the adjucticator to email them.(trying to get an extra week)
, when I called them today, they said they have paid the interest to the 5 th July, even although I haven’t got the payment yet!
Had to call FOS and it should be the settlement date of the 20th. I have to call back when I receive the cheque then they will need to change this!
It’s been over a year and they still don’t want to pay out!!
Sam says
Hi I’m needing advice I started borrowing money from mutual in 2006 but didn’t even work until Aug of 2008 had numerous loans between 2006 and 2013 the problem have is apart from a few still on my credit report I have no proof of these loans and all done in cash with payments written on a scrappy piece of card that i no longer have am I still able to put a complaint in and if so how do i do it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You start by asking them to send you a list of your loans. See Step one in https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/.
You will need to be able to get bank statements if the complaint goes to the Finanical Ombudsman.
Mandy says
Hi all , could anyone please offer some advise I have been borrowing from provident for the last 6/7 years often refinancing after I had payed back three quarters of my loan also taking gold cards at Christmas time and having to payback between £200 and £260 per month I have always made my payments although I have sometimes had a couple of weeks arrears my loans are usually quite large £1000/£1500 .. but during this time I have never been employed nor do I receive benefits , my agent has quite simply always allowed me to state my husbands wage as my income (even though he has never been party to any of these arrangements ) I have a poor credit rating and numerous debts and defaults . Would this be a case for irresponsible lending from provident .
Many thanks mandy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds like a good case to me!
Mandy says
Hi Sara. Do I need to ask them for statements of account first as I’m not sure of the exact dates my current payment book shows from 2013 but I was borrowing a couple of years before that .
Any help with what I should write to then would be greatly appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest putting in a complaint now and saying you were borrowing from 1010/11. At the end of the complaint, ask them to send you a detailed list of your borrowing as well as a reply.
You can start with the payday loan complaint letter here https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/ and then just change it so it describes your Provi loans – how you usually refinanced them, how the agent never checked your expenditure, never checked your credit record, knew you had problems so suggested you refinanced etc. Ideas for may have happened that shouldn’t have in the article above, so see if any of those ring a bell with you.
Wendy says
I emailed provident 3 weeks ago today I got a reply after a week saying there looking into it and not heard anything yet I know it’s only 3 weeks but they only replied as I messaged to see if they had got my complaint. How long have people waited before hearing from them. Thanks
Kay M says
Hi I waited around 6/7 weeks for them to contact me and say they would not uphold my complaint. I then sent to FO and have waited around 6 weeks to be assigned an adjudicator, now i’m just waiting for there response…its been 2 weeks since I sent all my statements and other evidence across. Hope this helps.
Wendy says
Thanks. Wow they really don’t like rushing do they. Hope you don’t have to wait too much longer.
Sonia says
Hi Sara, My mum took out finance on behalf of a close friend but now the friend has defaulted as she has lost her job the finance was with Barclays and there is still money owed! My mum is over 60 so she only has her pension is there any way out of this my mum and I are devastated.
The finance was £3000 now it’s gone up to £5000 monthly payments of £150 she has only paid £800.
Pension credit is her only income Barclays are harassing her for payments because the finance is in her name she lives in a council property with no debts except this one
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Base on what you have said, she may have three options:
1) tell Barclays she can only afford £5 a month (or something she really can manage every month for a very long while) and start paying that
2) put in an “unaffordable lending” complaint to Barclays. £150 a month sounds like a lot too much for a pensioner to afford to me. Perhaps you could help her with this – use a version of the payday loan refund letter: https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/. The problem with this option is that the best she could hope for is to get the outstanding amount down to £3000 (what was borrowed) minus the £800 paid – and it doesn’t sound like she can afford to repay the £2,200.
3) go to her local Citizens Advice and ask them to set up a Debt Relief Order for her, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/dro/ for more about these.
Going to Citizens Advice would have the big plus that they could look at her whole situation and see if there are any other options. I think that would be a good way forward for her.
Michelle says
Hi,
Has anyone had a complaint upheld by Provident without having to go to FoS, I am 5 weeks since my initial complaint submitting on their portal waiting on a response to my complaint, I had 3 small loans at a time for over 6 years paying 3 off and the agent giving me another 3 loans, I would repay early so I could borrow again etc. So I do feel it is a good case.
Wendy says
I’m on week 4 had no response at all once it’s been 8 weeks go straight to fo there supposed to get in touch after 4 weeks to let u know whee there upto
Michelle says
Hi Wendy,
They have sent me an acknowledgement noting they are looking into it and I chased up to get the week 4 letter sent by email noting they were still looking into it. Now though I cannot get them on the phone. I’ve had success with all other lenders without FoS but have not seen many people talking about even getting an offer from Provident at all.
Was just interested to know if they just decline all complaints.
Thanks,
Michelle
Anna says
Hi
I had my complaint rejected by Provident so complained to FOS and they asked Provident to uphold my claim. They accepted the FOS decision and I received a cheque for nearly £6000.00.
Luckily it didn’t go to ombudsman as it takes an age! My complaint took from first contacting Provident in April 2017 to getting a cheque from them on Friday 14th July so a really quick response! Good luck.
Anna
Nim says
and my case has been with them since Nov 16, and passed on to ombudsman in may 17
Wendy says
That’s brilliant you must have put in a really good complaint
Wendy says
How did u go about complaining to the fo I’m just about to do it thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Wendy, have you read step three in this article: https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/? Then also read https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-refund-complaint-detail/. And then re-read the article above on doorstep loans for all the bits that are important for Provi loans.
The Ombudsman is a pretty friendly service, just write in normal English what happened to you and how you had to keep borrowing and it was unaffordable. It doesn’t need legal arguments or mention rules. Just why it was unfair to continue to lend when they must have known you were dependent on the loans.
Amy says
How long did the cheque take from acknowledgement
Sonia says
Has anyone got an email address to complain to provident?
Wendy says
Go onto provident website and go to the complaint bit send it through there at the moment they are inundated so don’t expect a quick reply
steve says
I sent complaint to both online and email as im impatient :)
Sonia says
Thank you Sara for all your help you have been wonderful! I’ve written my letters using your template to all my lenders so hopefully I will get some kind of refund back and use that to help my mum out. I have another question I have a guarntor loan and I went off sick so instead of £279 for 60 months they froze the interest and said I should pay £150 until I return to work my guarntor and I are not so close now because of this but I can’t get out of this debt I’ve had 3 loans with them and have paid two off now stuck with this one I went to CAB and they couldn’t help as they said the lender would approach my guarntor so I couldn’t go to bankruptcy because of this loan £7000
Sara (Debt Camel) says
CAB are right – if you go for any form of insolvency (bankruptcy, IVA, Debt Relief Order) the lender will go after the guarantor.
Clare says
Hello I’ve been reading all your threads and wanted to ask about reclaming interest on provident loans in the 1980 1990s My mum and dad had a number of loans and when dad lost his job mum had to get another loan to pay off last one which led to another one increasing debt.. In total she thinks she had about 6 with bigger amounts each time. Can she claim?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think there is any chance of getting a refund for loans that old, sorry.
Chris says
Has anyone ever had any dealings with Loans at Home?
I see a lot of people mention Provident, but not LAH
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes someone has mentioned them. But it doesn’t really matter even if no-one has – every case is different, just put in a complaint if you feel their lending was unaffordable and they should have realised this.
Sal says
Dear Sara,
This is quite lengthy BUT I hope you can lend me some advice on whether the offer is reasonable.
Our records show you stated you were employed by XXXXXX earning in excess of £25,000.00 which was confirmed by way of a bank statement and wage slip. You showed proof of your address by way of a letter issued by xxx Borough Council.
… you visited The Money Shop on five occasions during 2012 each time borrowing the sum of £250.00 to repay £312.50. On two occasions your payments were slightly late as you advised there had been issues with your salary being credited to your bank account. Your final loan in 2012 was settled on 30 October 2012…After a four month break in lending… you applied for a total of seven loans during 2013. After the first two loans, I can see your credit limit increased gradually from £250.00 to £700.00…The Money Shop received a payment of £50.00 dated 3 March 2014..
As no further payment was received and no contact had been made with you, your debt of £768.94 was sold to Prac Financial Limited (managed by BW Legal) on 9 December 2016.
My conclusion
I believe the first seven loans were affordable and sufficient levels of checks were completed at the time of these loan applications, however; I have concerns regarding the loans provided from 29 April 2013 with the sum of £909.93 repayable and feel additional checks should have been completed; therefore I am partially upholding your complaint.
I am offering to refund the interest and charges added to your account in the amount of £970.67. As your debt of £768.94 was sold to BW Legal I will recall this and deduct the interest and charges applied leaving you with a refund of £201.73.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have shortened the lengthy reply. I am assuming that you think all the figures are accurate. Have you made any payments to BW Legal for the last loan?? Do you know what interest you paid on loans 8,9,10,11
So there were twelve loans, the first 7 for £250 each, with a 4 month break after the first 5. TMS thinks these were affordable. It is offering a refund on the interest you have paid on the last 5 where the loan sizes increased.
Sal says
I have written to them requesting how much interest I paid from loans 6 to 12.
I have paid BW Legal some money too.
I believe they should consider loans 3 – 12
veronica moss says
I contacted provident on 20th June then received a letter a few days later saying that they had received my complaint and would get a four week update. It has now been six weeks and not had an update and not been sent my statements as requested. My husband received his statements within a week and also received 28 day update letter we did the complaints on the same day.
Hayley says
I contacted on 8th June and I got my statements a week later I sent the 2nd emal listing my loans and the complaint online on 26th June and by post 29th June letter received on 30th June advising they are looking in to my complaint . I have not received any further correspondence from them so I sent an email on 28th July requesting an update to where my complaint is at and still nothing! The 8 weeks are up tomorrow so will send it straight to the FOS
Michelle says
Hi Hayley,
Have you still not received anything?
M
Hayley says
Hi,
No still not received a response I emailed on Thursday last week and nothing so I have sent it to the FOS On Friday so fingers crossed
Alice says
I have just been through a good friends provident history, 15 years worth of borrowing without a single gap, each loan being refinanced with the next loan, her partner of 13 years exactly the same and paying over £600 a month between them still from the same household, although they are of course separate complaints can they be intertwined somehow?! Most household income is benefits, credit reports have ccjs and a large amount of defaults continually for years, I am actually astonished they were allowed to borrow so large amounts, do door step lenders not have to check credit reports? And are they allowed to go purely on repayment history? Although there were many missing payments and bounced cheques! Plus the agent took several books and never returned them, lots of crossing out etc so it’s hard to even work out what’s what. Or should each loan be assessed every time ? More often than not no income was asked for, and ‘rough’ expenses were requested only very recently were copies of benefit letters requested and the agent suggested including her child’s dla into her income for the loans. Also if she had been a bit loose with the truth of her outgoings could this be a reason for it going against her? Or should they have realised that well over a 3rd of the income was being spent on loans and that’s too much and the defaults on credit reports be enough? Many thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have no chance of going back before 2007. They can complain about all their loans, but don’t expect to get anything back from the earlier ones. It is also possible the Ombudsman will say they will only look at the last 6 years lending.
Make separate complaints, but each could say their partner is submitting a similar complaint.
Ask for a list of loans for each of them if it’s hard to piece together the details from the books. They are going to need to get bank statements going back as far as possible, preferably 2007.
Using child’s DLA is unfortunately not illegal :(
Repeat borrowing should have suggested they were in trouble whatever vague expenses said.
No doorstep lenders don’t have to check credit reports, but as the borrowing continued, there is a very good case that they should have made further enquiries such as checking credit records or asking to see bank statements. Poor credit history in itself isn’t a reason to refuse a loan – Provi are set up to lend to people others won’t – but together with the prolonged borrowing, getting new defaults, CCJs etc should have been a big warning signal.
If loans were being repaid by taking out new loans, this is another strong point. Once or twice, it may be acceptable. For many years it isn’t.
They need to get their current affairs into a stable order. This means only making affordable payments to their outstanding Provident loans and also any other borrowing they have. If there is a lot of this the best thing if for them to contact StepChange and set up a debt management plan see https://debtcamel.co.uk/help-payday-loan/. This may only be temporary until affordability complaints are resolved, but these can take many months. You should expect these to go to the Ombudsman.
Alice says
Ok that’s super helpful thank you! I have suggested a dmp , I think it’s wise but I was worried about their household car being on finance and losing it, I will have a look! Thanks again, I will gather all the information And help get the letters submitted ASAP.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They won’t lose a car on finance in a DMP.
Alice says
Provident have responded asking for £10 for full list of loan information, surely as she owes them money they should be giving her a borrowing summary for free! It seems a bit unfair, I’m going to make the complaints with out the full list as we know some, hopefully it will be ok.
Stephen says
I have recently made a formal complaint to provident regarding irresponsible/unaffordable lending. They have replied stating that they are reviewing my account. I’m hearing on a lot of forums, social media ect that provident are going bankrupt. Will this affect my complaint or any potential refund? Cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They made a profit before tax of £115 million in the first half of this year. They are not in any danger of going bankrupt!
Wendy says
Provident have sent me there final decision saying there happy they didn’t lend me irresponsibly so I’m taking it to the fo worth a try.
Anna says
Hi
I got the same response but after going to the FOS I got 5,800 refund so definitely worth complaining to them! Good luck
Kay M says
How many loans were you refunded? Did it take long for them to come back to the FO with there response?
Anna says
Hi Kay
I got 6 refunded in total from 2007 and it took approx 12 weeks
Kind regards
Anna
Jay says
Hi Anna,
How much were each of your loans and total interest paid? and how many did you take out in each year?
were you working or unemployed? what did you write in your complaint as I had some loans too and need to put a complaint.
Any help would be great.
Thank
jay
Michelle says
We are sorry that we have been unable to resolve your complaint at this time. The reason for the delay is this is still under investigation.
We can assure you that this matter is still under investigation and is receiving our urgent attention. We expect to be able to provide you with a full response by 24 August 2017.
I have received the following from Provident today – should I go to FoS anyway or wait 2 weeks for them to come back?
In view of this and in line with our complaints procedure. You have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge, but you must do so within six months of the date of this email. If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.
Hayley says
Can I ask when you submitted your complaint initially as I made mine on 8th June and was told 4 weeks ago they are investigating but the deadline has passed and still no response. I have sent to FOS to avoid delay already
Michelle says
Hi Hayley, mine was 16th June, the 8 weeks would be up tomorrow. It’s making me wonder whether I maybe have a chance if they have asked for the further 2 weeks.
Hayley says
I have rang them today and the guy that’s dealing with my case had gone home but he said there were numerous notes over the last two days so a resolution was near. I told him that as the 8 weeks had passed and I have sent to the FOS as I’d heard nothing and wasn’t very good customer service. He apologised as he can see iv emailed for updates and that they took the complaint from when I put my second letter in after I received my statements. May be worth a quick call for an update .
Michelle says
Hi Hayley,
What number did you call them on?
Hayley says
I called them on 01924 226047 my case Officer returned my call today and confirmed he is investigation and should have an outcome later next week
GMA says
I recieved exactly the same letter, but saying I would hear by the 21/08/2017, initial letter for statement sent on 20/06/2017. I received statements within 2 weeks then this letter at the 4 week mark, nothing since but still within the time frame, its a game of patience, hope it pays of, I have already had 5K work of refunds form PDX, Lending Stream and Mr Lender so am getting results, thanks to this site.
veronica says
im getting totally ignored by prov, i received a letter saying they had received my complaint 7 and half weeks ago, ive not received 4 week update or my loan statements. I have emailed them twice since and heard nothing from them. It will be 8 weeks on tuesday.
Michelle says
They will probably send you the same email I received yesterday asking for the further 2 weeks. I’m going to wait until 24/08 and see what happens. Ive tried phoning them a few times and always on hold waiting for 50-60 minutes at a time. Customer service is terrible.
veronica says
Have you had statements from them
Michelle says
No – nothing info wise from them. The guy i spoke with mentioned probably by mistake that my complaint had not been upheld but that evidence i had submitted had not been taken into account so that was being reviewed with my complaint and i will hear in the next 14 days.
Kay M says
The journey of the provident complaint continues! So adjudicator came back to me today stating that provident have disagreed with her findings of my last 4 loans been affordable. Now my adjudicator has emailed to say that is is reviewing the additional evidence they have provided and be in touch soon? Has anyone has this experience before? I have no idea of what additional evidence they could provide to my adjudicator……
Kay says
Adjudicator has now came back and advised the additional information does not change her outcome and it has now been passed to further up for a final decision. This could take up 6-8weeks.
keith says
can I just ask how far back can you go for provident / shopacheck loans?
just what if had loans from them for 10 plus years ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Before 2007 won’t be possible. Older than 6 years makes a case harder and slower. You may find it har dot produce proof about your situation over 6 years because your credit rating won’t show problems for they time.
But don’t worry about this, just put in a complaint asking for a full refund. If you are made an offer for all your loans within 6 years, it can be hard to decide. If your loans tended to get bigger, the more recent loans will have had more interest. But if you don’t feel it’s fair or you aren’t sure,let the Ombudsman decide.
keith says
thank you sara
GMA says
Decided to call provident this afternoon as their 8 weeks was up yesterday and was told someone will call to update me tomorrow, anyone else experienced this? Thanks
GMA says
they asked for another 14 days on 25th August so I am hanging on….
GMA says
Called again yesterday and have been promised a final response by Friday, they are over the 8 weeks but am hanging on trying to save everyone a bit of work, am I being naive?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A week here or there doesn’t really make much difference. Provident have adopted a policy of sending a cheque with an offer – nice in some ways but don’t accept it if you think the offer is really too low, however tempting it is! You can’t cash the cheque and then try to go to the ombudsman for the loans they didn’t offer a refund on. If you aren’t sure, come and ask what other people think?
GMA says
Here is my list of accounts, scary reading! Will hang on tell Friday and see if it comes close, assuming they make an offer. Quite a few link on to the next date so remain hopeful.
Date taken Paid Back Amount Charges Early settlement rebate
11/05/09 13/07/09 £300.00 £165.00 £84.82
09/07/09 17/05/10 £500.00 £355.00 £19.28
24/12/09 08/11/10 £100.00 £75.00 £0.53
17/03/10 04/07/11 £550.00 £412.50
08/11/10 30/07/12 £400.00 £300.00
30/07/10 18/03/13 £300.00 £225.00 £27.63
15/10/12 05/08/13 £400.00 £328.00 £12.28
18/03/13 03/03/14 £400.00 £328.00 £0.05
05/08/13 05/03/15 £700.00 £574.00
03/03/14 28/07/15 £400.00 £328.00
10/09/15 16/10/15 £300.00 £180.00 £119.09
08/12/15 21/06/16 £500.00 £247.50
12/01/16 05/07/16 £300.00 £180.00 £6.95
05/07/16 09/06/17 £600.00 £492.00 £0.67
£5,750.00 £4,190.00
Robert says
Hi Sara
I am in process of reclaiming Provident top up loans they are asking for bank statements to check the affordability of them.Problem is some loans back in 2010,2011 but I now have new bank account iresponded it was there duty to check this before issuing top up loans. all loans I settled but had to borrow from payday loans each month to pay back.Where do I stand with this do you think.
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is an OK response. If the case goes to the Ombudsman you will need to get the old statements – this is possible from closed accounts and most people have found it easier than they expected. If you bank wants to charge you, tell them it is for an Ombudsman complaint against provident – they often reduce the charges, sometimes to nothing!
Hayley says
Just an update, received a response through the post today upholding only one of my loans out of 6. Two loans were within 6 years and the rest were over 6 years old. provident accepted that prior to giving me my last loan there was numerous missed payments in the 12 week period on the previous loan so was irresponsible to offer me another loan without the balance being cleared .
£480 interest refunded with 8% on top
Not going to bother with FOS for the 2nd loan as happy they upheld the complaint in the first place. A cheque was sent with the response letter.
Hayley says
Yes this is provident they have accepted that prior to giving me my last loan there was numerous missed payments in the 12 week period on the previous loan so was irresponsible to offer me another loan without the balance being cleared . £480 interest refunded with 8% on top
Michelle says
Hi – My claim has not been upheld apparently but I am receiving a cheque for £30 in relation to the wait times i have endured trying to get through. I am definitely taking my claim to the Ombudsman once the formal final response letter is received.
Bella says
I’ve emailed provident to request refund but they ignored my emails , it’s only been a week since I emailed them but how long do I wait and how do I get in touch with the ombudsman? And what info will I need for them , I had 3 loans starting from £300 paid off with second loan off £500 paid off with 3rd £800 , still paying of £800 one but with interest it’s £1700 ? Is it worth it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to wait 8 weeks until you go to the Ombudsman. Read the How to Ask for a Payday loan refund link in the article above – that looks at sending a complaint to the Ombudsman.
Stacey Reddick says
Who’s received pay back from Provident? – I’ve had a few provident loans over 4 years. I was not accepted for them the agent , asked there manager if we could authorise? Is this a good case?
GMA says
Still waiting, they have another 6 days, I have spoken to a nice chap in the complaints department who asked me a few questions, like I had made a couple of larger payments to clear the loan, I explained it was so I could get a bigger one and I had borrowed from a friend. He assured me I would receive a response within the 8 weeks, 5 days to go! I had 14 loans in total
Hayley says
I have received a refund from my last loan, the person who was dealing with my case said what he was looking at was the time period of 12 weeks prior to a new loan being offered and whether you was making payments on time. I didn’t pay anything for the weeks leading up to my new loan so he felt that it wasn’t responsible to offer a new loan. Cheque was sent with decision letter
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some Provident complaints are being upheld at the Ombudsman
If Provident send you a cheque, think about whether it is large enough! It is possible you could get more by going to the Ombudsman.
Hayley says
Yes all my loans were back from 2008/2009/2010 my last loan that they upheld was taken out just over 6 years ago so was happy to accept
veronica moss says
I waited 8 weeks and never even received my loan details off them. Didn’t even get 4 week update or 8 week decision from it was provident.
I emailed ombudsman but they have wrote to me saying its something they cant look into as they wasnt covered during time of sale in 2005, but yet provident have been mithering sending agent offering me loans since then and still ongoing. They have had about £10k in interst since 2009. Is it worth resending to ombudsman changing the date to 2009 because since then all my loans taken were renewals as when i got balance down to less than half of original amount they would text me offering to renew loan and clear out of it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Ombudsman won’t look at pre 2007. But if you have had loans since then – and certainly if you have had any loans in the last 6 years – put in a complaint to the Ombudsman. The fact that the loans were refinancing earlier loans doesn’t matter.
CC says
Hi Sara my Provident case has been with adjudicator at the FOS and she is insisting that they won’t look at loans older than 6 years?
tony says
i have a similar story and the ombudsman e mailed me saying that they are looking at my loans
which are over 6 years old cross fingers
janet says
Provident totally refused my complaint so I’ve sent it to the FOS they mentioned all checks were made including credit report, if they had done that then they would have seen all the other debt I had with defaults and lots of late payments. In just less than 18 months they approved the following:
Weeks Weekly amount
01/12/11 £600 106 £12.00
27/01/12 £600 106 £12.00
27/01/12 £600 106 £12.00
08/05/12 £650 60 £19.50
18/06/12 £300 50 £10.50
22/10/12 £277.13 63 £9.69
19/11/12 £600 84 £14.40
11/02/13 £700 10 £14.00
08/04/13 £600 63 £18.00
05/07/13 £500 110 £10.00
05/07/13 £500 110 £10.00
At one point my weekly payments were over £90 I used other borrowing and new loans to meet the payments until I couldn’t do it anymore and have been making token payments for 3 years but still owe £1500, almost £6000 borrowed in this period :( anyone had any luck with Provident ?
I already have had successes for my Payday loans with Wonga, Uncle Buck and Payday UK.
Janet
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, some successes with Provident at the Ombudsman level. There have also been some people with apparently good cases who haven’t had their complaints upheld – it seems a bit more random than payday loans. But it looks to me as though you have a good case so it’s definitely worth pursuing and take it to the Ombudsman level if you don’t win at the adjudicator level.
Chris says
Had a email from my adjudicator today advising that he has written to Loans At Home and advised them to pay out on 7 loans so here’s hoping for a resolution soon
Chris says
Loans at home have rejected the claim so it has gone to the Ombusman.
keith says
HI Sara, can I pick your thoughts / help on this.
been doing my parents complaint for shopacheck / morses there have had total of 16 plus loans for 4 years upto £9000 with interest £5000 plus
I did there complaint letters posted 14days ago then after 6days they kept getting phone calls saying they want come out to talk about it, I took over again saying write to them today they sent them letter asking for bank statements for last 4 years, am I right they shouldn’t need / have to send them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Many people don’t want to send these personal documents. You could just reply that you want them to consider your parents’ complaint on the basis of what they already know, and that your parents will supply any further information to the Financial Ombudsman if requested.
Mike says
Need a bit of advice. In 2014/2015 I took out several provident door step loans.
I paid 3 successive ones off and all was alright. I got made redundant and the firm I was working for went insolvent and were unable to honour my wages so I had to claim these back through insolvency service andemployment tribunal court which too ages. Thats another story.
As I was totally broke and claiming job seekers allowance £70 off a week or so.
My provident rep said she would lend me £500.
It took me a while to get back to work as I have to fill in CRB because of my job.. anyway..
I fell behind with the payments, it defaulted and went to ‘vanquis’ as debt collectors. I owed them £800 on a £500 loan which I haven’t paid or aknkwlenged. Is there a method to get this loan gone? As the rep told me to put that I was working on the application and lie about my income in order to be accepted for the loan there for leanding irresponsibly.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s pretty unlikely this loan will be written off because the Ombudsman will say you were given the money. But you can ask for the interest to be removed, which would reduce your balance to £500 (less any payments you have made, but it sounds as though there may not be any.)