In March 2017, the Court of Appeal decision in the Green v Wright case was published: Mr Wright’s IVA firm was allowed to collect PPI after his IVA ended, even though he hadn’t consented to this before his completion certificate was issued.
As questions about this continue to arrive, I thought it would be useful to summarise the current situation: what is clear and what is less clear.
The Court of Appeal decision
The full decision is here: Green v Wright verdict. Here are some articles on the decision by some of the lawyers that have been involved:
- Paul French’s blog: PPI claims survive completion of IVA for creditors (he was the barrister for the IVA firm in the Appeal);
- Kathryn Maclennan’s blog: Green -v- Wright: complete does not necessarily mean complete (she was the solicitor for the debtor in the original court case).
Before you read on:
I am not a lawyer and I can’t give you advice on what you should do. When I say things like “I cannot see” or “This seems very unlikely”, I could be wrong. I am giving a layman’s opinion, hoping it will help you to consider your own situation.
If there is a large refund involved, you may want professional advice. You can go to your local Citizens Advice or a Law Centre – that would be free – or you may prefer a solicitor with experience in personal insolvency. If you decide to go to court over this, you have to consider that if you lose you may have to pay not just your own legal costs but the other side’s as well.
Common misunderstandings
Here are some points that keep cropping up which are worth emphasising:
“My PPI was for a debt that wasn’t included in my IVA as it had been repaid”
This doesn’t make a difference. You had the right to reclaim PPI at the point your IVA started and it is this right which is an “asset” of your IVA even if you didn’t realise it.
“My IVA says that it includes windfall assets received whilst IVA is open, but it is now closed”
This is a standard clause in most IVAs but it isn’t relevant to the PPI issue. PPI is not being claimed as a windfall. PPI is being claimed for your creditors because the right to make a claim was an asset you owned at the start of your IVA, this has nothing to do with the windfall clause.
“They will try to get any money I inherit – this is never going to end!”
This isn’t going to happen. An inheritance (or lottery win, or taking money from your pension etc) is treated as windfall if it happens during your IVA. But after your IVA ends the money is yours if one of these events happens. The court case doesn’t relate to windfalls at all.
“I would have been better off going bankrupt”
That may be correct. But PPI isn’t relevant to this – if you had gone bankrupt all the PPI would have gone to the Official Receiver.
“It’s not fair because this wasn’t explained to me at the start”
When your IVA started no-one had any idea that this court case would happen. You can’t blame your IVA firm for not telling you something they weren’t aware of.
“This only applies to PPI”
I would expect it to apply to other similar “refunds” eg for payday loan affordability cases, pension mis-selling etc. The principal is that you had the right to make a claim at the start of your IVA, even if you were not aware of this at the time.
The simplest cases
“My IVA hasn’t finished yet”
If your IVA is still in progress then your IVA firm has the right to collect this PPI. If you refuse to co-operate with the claims company they appoint, you could be in breach of your IVA terms by refusing a reasonable request and your IVA may be failed.
“I have made my last payment but they won’t give me my completion certificate unless I agree to them collecting the PPI afterwards”
If you don’t sign they will keep your IVA open until they are happy they have collected all the PPI, which could be years. It’s your choice, but I can’t see any options which will let you get the PPI money.
“I had to sign documents authorising them to collect PPI before I got my completion certificate”
Many people in the last few years have been asked to sign a deed of assignment saying that any PPI paid after their IVA completed should go to their IVA firm. The Court of Appeal case doesn’t change this.
In any of the above situations, the PPI is going to your IVA firm, I can’t see anything sensible you can do to stop this and there isn’t much point in you reading the rest of this article.
Mr Wright’s IVA used R3 standard terms and conditions
The Appeal Court decision was that Mr Wright’s IVA created a trust which did not end with the completion of the IVA unless there was specific wording to state it ended. This wording wasn’t in Mr Wright’s completion certificate.
The Appeal Court decision was based on the specific terms and conditions of Mr Wright’s IVA, which in his case had used the R3 standard terms.
If you aren’t sure if your IVA used these terms, ask your IVA firm or dig out your IVA documents. If you see Produced by the Association of Business Recovery Professionals this is an R3 IVA. Anything that says Consumer IVA Protocol is not an R3 IVA.
Let’s look first at the situation if you have an R3 IVA, then at how this may change if you don’t.
For people with an R3 IVA
If your IVA used the R3 terms, you should assume the Appeal court decision applies to you. It is highly unlikely that your completion certificate would have had any wording to bring the IVA trust to an end. The same argument – that specific wording is needed to end the trust – is likely to apply even if your IVA completed with a full and final settlement or failed.
Claims which haven’t yet been paid out
If a PPI complaint is upheld, it is very likely that your bank will ask the IVA firm if they should have the money, the IVA firm will say Yes (because of the Court of Appeal decision) and the bank will pay it to them. If this happens there is very unlikely to be anything you can do to challenge this.
Thinking about some possible exceptions:
- if your IVA is so old that your IVA firm can’t be located, I think the bank will eventually send you the money. See A PPI claim after an old failed IVA for details.
- If your IVA is so old the firm no longer has enough records for it to be able to distribute IVA to your creditors, it may be happy for the money to come to you. If you have an old R3 IVA you could enquire about this.
- If your creditors have been paid in full, the money should come to you. You are entitled to ask your IVA firm for an account which shows how much money has been distributed. If you are thinking you may be near the full payment point because a lot of PPI has already been reclaimed, don’t forget that a large proportion will have been taken by the claims firm and not gone to your creditors.
Will your IVA firm be trying to reopen old cases to reclaim the PPI? That is likely to depend on the firm. I have heard that some firms don’t intend to reopen these cases, but if you start the complaint, they will claim the PPI.
If your IVA firm wants to reopen your old case and asks you to sign something to allow them to reclaim the IVA, it isn’t clear that they have any sanctions against you if you refuse. If they mention the Green v Wright decision, you could ask them what will happen if you don’t sign.
You could also propose a solution in which you split any PPI reclaimed – half to you and half to the IVA firm. If your IVA firm agrees to this, you need to get it very clearly in writing. Also you do not want their claims firm making the complaint and taking a huge cut first – offer to make the complaint yourself.
PPI has already been paid to your IVA firm
There is nothing you can do about this.
PPI has already been paid to you
If you have spent the money, this is a very worrying situation. It seems unlikely that an IVA will be aggressive in this situation – who should it pursue, you or the bank who sent you the money? And if you don’t have any assets, it’s hard to see how pursuing you could produce any gain for the creditors. Don’t let yourself be pressured into doing anything silly like trying to borrow this money to hand to the IVA firm – just explain your situation.
For people with non R3 IVAs
There is no legal clarity for non-R3 IVAs. There hasn’t been a court decision on any of these cases and they can have very different terms. Some could be close to an R3 IVA in the areas that matter, but some may not be similar.
It seems unlikely this is going to change. It is hard to imagine a debtor is going to want to go to court, given the costs that Mr Wright has ended up with after losing his case.
In most respects similar points apply to those on the R3 case above, except the IVA firm itself is on less solid legal ground. You may decide that they are largely bluffing… but this still isn’t a very comfortable position for you to be in. If you feel you are being pressured unreasonably, put in a formal complaint to the firm and then to the IVA Complaints Gateway.
IVA firms may take different views.
- Some may choose not to try to reclaim PPI after a completion certificate has been issued if no deed of assignment has been signed.
- Some may try to reclaim, but it isn’t clear what possible sanctions they have if you refuse to co-operate.
- If you try to reclaim PPI, it seems pretty likely that the bank may pay it to your IVA firm.
- Some firms may agree if you offer to split the PPI.
- If PPI has been paid to the debtor and spent, again it seems unlikely that the IVA firm will pursue this aggressively.
In 2018 and 2019 ClearDebt and Aperture have been sending out letters that some customers feel are threatening about allowing the firms to make PPI and other financial claims for IVAs that have completed or have failed some time ago.
Some firms such as Freeman Jones say they have no interest in any PPI or other refunds for IVAs that were closed more than three years ago.
Comments
You are welcome to comment below but I cannot guess what your IVA firm will choose to do and I am not going to speculate.
After the Appeal Court verdict in March 2017 this article was re-published with up-to-date information.
Mr S. KILBEE says
So credit fix have claimed in the region of 30,000 in ppi 33% swiped by claims company who acted on their behalf. Plus I paid in roughly 20,000. So debts were 40,000. So clearly someone made alot of money out of me. As previously mentioned iva’s are supposed to reduce your debt not increase it. I didn’t say to go bankrupt over ppi. I said I would have been better off going for bankruptcy because it would of cost 500, all debts wiped I had no assets.
Solicitors would not have got there 105 an hour for doing God knows what. I could of started over. Would I have worried about ppi probably not as I said before the company’s paying it out should be checking their records to see how much you owed and take it off that before they pay anything out. After all it is still technically their money then give what’s left to the iva or taxman whoever. I’ve had no debts no credit cards so I had to start again anyway. But I now resent iva companies and their extortionate rates they are milking it for all they can. Especially when they are supposed to be helping people that have got theirselves in to difficulty, it is to easy to get credit sometimes. Companies should be checking if you have other credit cards store cards catalogue companies and loans. This is the unlying problem. I could go on but I think I will stop there.
Mark says
These iva companies have no interest in helping you, in fact it’s you that helps them rake it in.. I also wished I had gone bankrupt myself.. I’ve had friends ask me about iva, I told them under no circumstances should you use them. Aso my iva mccambridge duffy. I have looked to see where they are based. They have a office in England however if you look for the office it can’t be found then there is another address in the Republic of Ireland. What a surprise.. I don’t trust them for a second. I’m currently speaking to a solicitor about my circumstances.
Yvonne says
I agree with they above comments what I don’t get when you enter an agreement with an Iva company they tell you that you have to pay so much for 5 years and once paid that it is finished you owe nothing but that was a lie because they want your ppi money and even tho you are supposed to have finished your contract. They tell you all money goes to your debtors but that is a lie too because they sent me paper work with what they had paid out to my debtors and they got hardly anything back they only ones who got most of the money was the Iva company they also told me if they claim the ppi back that all money would go to the debtors but that’s not true because most if it went to the Iva company . They have had thousands of my ppi money more than my debt .My friend went with step change and all the money she paid in went to her debtors and now she as finished she gets all her ppi money .Something is not right and I waiting for someone to take these Iva company on for misleading people so I have kept all my paperwork just in case and I would advise others to do the same .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am not unsympathetic but I don’t want anyone reading this page to be in any doubt – it is HIGHLY unlikely anyone is going to “take on these IVA companies for misleading people” about PPI. After the Green v Wright case, anyone doing this would have to assume that if they lost they would be facing a legal bill of 40k plus for their costs and the other sides costs. And no solicitor is likely to take this on on a no win no fee basis.
Rick Borman says
I am totally agreeing with you on that…..but I am researching whether the TV ads for DFD were misleading when they told me (as did the rep on the phone) I would be debt free in 5 years…. I do not think it was made at all clear that “debt free” did not mean “free of debt” but instead meant “freedom from paying debt back but it still exists”!!!
Maureen Jones says
Hi I agree with you a hundred percent, how come the latest news about the phone companies ripping people off has come to light? How exactly are these IVA firms legal? These IVA firms are the only people who benefit, even when you have finished the IVA and paid what you have been asked, you cannot claim your PPI but yet these firms can and are entitled to it… even PPI claims that were from loans/credit cards that wasn’t part of the IVA… how is this legal? It doesn’t make sense!! However if you claim bankruptcy you can claim your PPI back… It seems even though we paid our dues, we still are controlled by them, someone needs to look into this as they have done with the phone companies.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“However if you claim bankruptcy you can claim your PPI back…” this is simply wrong. If you went bankrupt, any PPI from before that date goes to the official receiver, not to you. So the situation is the same for IVAs and bankruptcy.
Paul moss says
The main reason for me having to enter my IVA which I completed 7 yrs ago now was because of my excessive ppi policies and being very naive one loan had 5 different policies which were not explained to me. After joining I got a better job with a significant pay rise meaning I nearly paid back everything owed anyway and I’m still getting letters saying there claiming my ppi for those loans and cards and will end up gaining even more. Somethings not right here!!!
CT says
PPI was responsible for my debts getting to be unmanageable so why should the banks then benefit from it in my IVA. I was told 5 years. I got through to the end only with help from family as your IVA firm doesn’t want to know about any problems after you sign up. Whole system is rigged against you.
Helen says
Hi there
I completed an iva 7 years ago. Do you think it is worth persuing a claim. I would like too but am concerned that the companies take 30% and I will end up having to pay 30% on top as I hear that the companies come after you after you have received the money and if they pay them to the creditors I won’t receive the money.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could ask your IVA company what will happen if you win a complaint? They may have no interest in the PPI. Or they may be happy to split the PPI with you. If you alternative is not bothering, you may as well ask!
You should certainly not employ a claims firm. You can make a PPI claim yourself, it is pretty easy to do
aimee says
Hi I dont know if you can help me I was recently paid out ppi theough harringtons advisory wasntalot but unfortunately the money was taken out on other bills so I couldnt pay my fee to harringtons I am severelly depressed as I have alot of debt trying to cope on my own with a sseverly disabled child dont no where oto turn do you think they will be able to do a pahment plan or should I try and find a way to pay it off whats the worse they can do to me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Aimee,
I think with your other debts and your depression you should get some help with this. You could go to your local Citizens Advice or, if you prefer the telephone, call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
donna says
go to Christians against poverty
Lindswy says
Hi Sara
When you say there are possible exceptions. Ie the iva has been paid in full. Do you mean the agreed amount you said you would pay back. Or the overall debt amount?. I finished my iva 10 years ago and i recently claimed back ppi which has been sent to my iva practitioner. My practitioner is no longer trading under the same name. So i had to do som research on the company who Barclays have now sent the cheque too. Should ppi have been claimed by my practitioner before they closed my iva?
Thanks
Lindsey
Sara (Debt Camel) says
By repaying an IVA in full, I meant repaying the full amount of your debts plus the IVA fees. So your creditors got 100p in the pound. In this situation – which is obviously unusual – there can be no further distribution to the creditors so any PPI should come to you.
Paul says
I failed my Iva six years ago recently I claimed for ppi. It’s been sent to the firm who handled the failed Iva what’s happens to the money do they send it to my creditors or back to the bank who owed me the ppi?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It should go to your creditors – have you repaid any of them since the IVA failed?
Paul says
No not as yet I would be happy for it to go to my creditors just the debt management company don’t represent me know so what happens to the money once they get it what are my rights in this.
Thanks
Lindsey says
Hi Sara
I was award ppi which was sent to my iva practitioner. I took out my iva in 2006 so i have now completed. The ppi i was awarded was for a loan i completed in 2004 the. 2 years before i started my iva. Is my practitioner entitled to keep this?
The loan was paid in full
Thanks
Lindsey
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The fact the loan was before your IVA is not relevant. The article above covers what I know of the situation – I am afraid you need to talk to your IVA firm about this.
Gary Christie says
I had an iva which finished over 2 years ago with GT, i was not issued with acompletion certificate and stilll haven’t. I had numerous PPI claims which over the last 2 years have been taken by GT without me signing for them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to talk to GT about why they haven’t issued your completion certificate. If it is because you are refusing to sign anything to say they can continue to claim PPI after your IVA, well that is your choice, your IVA isn’t going to end until they are sure all the PPI is reclaimed (which could be years) or until you sign.
Audrey kay says
Iva firm asked me feb2017,5/2017 to send back ppi pack , i have never received one either time to sign etc never refused either, cant get to speak to them either, iva ends july2017 . Will it still end i have paid six years now . They say 14 days if i dont be in breach , cant sign etc if i have not received just want an end to it they can keep any ppi, if anything 72months july 2011 i paid that never missed , did everything they asked
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them you still haven’t received what they say have sent and that you are happy to sign it. I suggest you put this in writing by email.
Matt says
Completed my IVA in 2014 and completion certificate issued by Debt Free Direct. They had already claimed PPI prior to closure.
I have now had a letter from Royal Bank Scotland stating they were not told the IVA had closed and realise that with the PPI claim the dividend to them is in excess of £5000 so is owed to me. They have been unable to get a response from DFD and asked to get hold of them but I have left several messages.
Where do I stand about getting this money if DFD clearly are not bothered. Is there a time limit on attempting to make contact with DFD to ask if they have an interest in the money ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well they are still in business so I expect they will get back to you at some point. I wouldn’t get your hopes up.
Rick Borman says
Funnily enough….DFD,, in the Letter they sent in reply to my own letter about PPI money sent after completion, told me to “be aware” that I may receive a letter from RBS about reviewed PPI claim! Its odd they didn’t specifically mention any other by name!!!! Believe me when I say that DFD will not leave you alone….and my iva completed even before yours!!!!
P. Wilson says
Im finding this very confusing. My iva failed 5 years ago ? Since then heard nothing. If I reclaim PPI will it come to me? Will this restart the clock on statute barred not sure what the date is for that at the moment anyway ? ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you reclaim PPI, the firm paying out the PPI may ask your old IVA firm if the money should go to them. I say “may” because it’s not clear to me if they would always know you had been in an IVA if the marker has gone from your credit records.
If your old IVA company is asked, it may say the money should go to you or it may say it should have the money. Five years is a pretty long time and they may not be interested in trying to find your old records and contact your old creditors. I am afraid the only way to know is to ask them.
Yes reclaiming PPI does usually reset the statute barred clock. On that basis you should probably leave it until after the debts have become statute barred.
After an IVA has failed, the debts will become statute barred 6 years from the point your IVA was terminated by your IVA firm. That point at least is definite (the relevant court case is Tanner v Everitt 2004) even if none of the other points are!
Rick Borman says
Update on my case: OK so I have lost the £7K (see comments above from me). When I signed my completion certificate, hidden in the small print was a clause allowing DFD to continue to redistribute any monies paid to me as PPI, or in fact any asset arising from creditors during my IVA, to my creditors forever (or at least until my IVA was 100% paid). Ah, you may say, you should have read that small print…but DFD have made it very clear that the clause would not have been removed so all I could have done was refuse to sign…in which case my IVA would not have been signed off as completed. It is interesting to note that DFD’s response included text regarding how “lenders are currently reviewing their compensation payments and so this will cause delays in payments” because this could not have existed during the time of my IVA! Anyway, my advice to anyone receiving a request to review from a creditor they have claimed PPI from in the past (that has been introduced into their IVA) is to ignore it! I actually had to sign to allow the Yorkshire Bank to review my case and because I had changed address, I had to jump through hoops in order to get them to do it….had I known that it would be fruitless I would have ticked the other box to say that I did not wish to proceed with the review! I reckon that these review letters from banks ought to include a paragraph telling the recipient that, should they have an ongoing or even a completed/closed IVA, any funds released as a result of such a review would go to them!
To anyone else, you wont win. Any PPI received at any time from a creditor that was part of your IVA will be taken by your supervisor and “distributed among creditors until such time that the whole initial debt is cleared” so I would not even bother claiming it now!
I am interested to get an opinion on something though…. the DFD advert on TV that prompted me to go to them stated the exact words that I would be “debt free in 5 years”. However, it is now becoming clear that this is not the case, you are only ever going to be “debt suspended” in that while you cannot be chased for it, it still hangs over your head. So, was I mis-sold an IVA and will there be legal practices in a few years screaming out for people who had IVA’s to come forward to claim??? I am keeping all my correspondence just in case!!!
Mercedes Salvilla says
In continuation to your case, I myself had my IVA completed last year, 2016 after 6 years and additional £4400 ( 1 year) which I paid full just to finish it and to get away from my IP. Yes, I felt, I was screwed, by all those ” blood sucking” IP’s , that lived well by squeezing everything I have.. Definitely , I was mis-sold by the ideas that I am gonna be debts free. I myself is waiting for those legal practices to give me a shout..
Danielle says
My father is in a similar situation and I have just written to the guardian in the hope that they will investigate and report on this.
If a group of people were able to take the banks to court to claim back their PPI, then there must be a way that you can all put together a joint complaint about the IVA company.
There needs to be clear legislation on this, the only people who are winning are the IVA companies.
People who take out IVAs are generally financially vulnerable and these crooks are getting away with making up their own rules and making huge profits. I would love someone to investigate their accounts.
Please don’t give up, I truly believe that if this goes public, it will be the next PPI scandal.
Rick Borman says
I agree. I have read somewhere that in fact because most creditors close down the debt when the iva is completed, that the iva companies themselves are the only ones making the money from these late and post-iva claims. The thing is that now there is a final date for PPI claims (august 2019) there will be a window for all these specialist PPI claim companies to change to “did you lose PPI because of iva variance clause” companies :-). As an update to my situation, DFD have confirmed that I will get a detailed letter giving the new status of my iva once they have finished dealing with the latest claims. I believe that all my claims have been sorted except for the reviewed one so there must be a final date somewhere. When I receive such letter I will be dissecting it with great precision and will then be writing a letter to them asking them to clarify many details including the claim from the TV advert over the definition of “debt free” ! From there I will be taking some preliminary legal advice. We must not let this die!!!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In my view you probably should let this one die and not waste any more time or mental energy on it.
The current legal basis that PPI is being claimed in would not have been known to DFD when your IVA was started. There is no chance (in my opinion) of you getting anywhere with a complaint that you were missold the IVA because the PPI situation was not explained to you.
(And DFD are in administration so the chance of you getting anything back from an IVA mis-selling claim are not good even if you won a case.)
Rick Borman says
Wow I didn’t know DFD were in administration….. I have no idea why but that makes me feel better….. Anyway, I am not specifically talking about PPI….its the fact that the phrase “debt free in 5 years” was misleading at best since “debt free” should mean exactly that…free of debt, I think most people would interpret it as meaning that. Thanks for your ongoing info :-)
Maureen Jones says
Hi I agree with you completely about IVA firms and how vulnerable people are when they take them out, we were near breaking point. Getting into our debt was helping some of our family out in very bad times they were having, not realising that things in our life would change and things get so out off control, I just think the judge that made the change in the Green v Wright case and lots of people on the way don’t look at the bigger picture, firms and banks run debts up all the time stop trading ,debts written off and start again another time . I do hope the guardian or any other paper do look into this ,and it will come out as a scandal. If you need any help with back up and will gladly give you my number and I’m sure a few people on here will back you up, as this applies to us all.
Regards Maureen Jones.
Howard Brent says
An IVA stays on your credit file for one year after it’s been successfully completed (i.e., six years from the date of commencement). Therefore, for those who completed their IVA several years ago, there would be no record of this on your credit file.
Therefore, even if your bank knows you’ve had an IVA (because you’ve got to disclose any repayment defaults on your PPI claim form), how would they know who the Insolvency Practitioner is/was that dealt with your IVA? Surely this type of information doesn’t even go on your credit file in the first place?
My point is, if you personally don’t provide the Bank with details of the Insolvency Practitioner, how and from where would they obtain this information (and subsequently send any compensation cheque to them)?
Rick Borman says
Easy….if the bank had already been a creditor during your IVA (like mine was) then the bank would have details of your IVA on your account details on their own internal database. If the bank was not part of your creditor list during your IVA then they would not need to know you had one since any claim would be outside the scope of the IVA anyway. It is really important, I reckon, to really draw a heavy line between creditors that were part of your IVA in the first place, and anyone else! ANY compensation payments resulting from claims against any of your creditors that formed part of your IVA will always be taken and distributed among said creditors by your Insolvency supervisors and, according to DFD, there is no time limit. Also, I am afraid it is not “six years from the date of commencement” necessarily since mine was delayed a further 2 years while they “awaited completion of PPI claims”….it was this that made me question whether the issue of a completion certificate after this period then signified that they had finished waiting for PPI claims! Furthermore, as I said above, a clause within my completion certificate (which I suspect will be in all companies certificates now) allowed DFD to redefine “debt free” as “debt suspended” with any future “windfalls” from my IVA creditors being subject to adding to the pot until any debt including fees was 100% paid. I am no legal expert but I reckon they have it sewed up tight and the TV advert I responded to in 2007-ish saying I would be “debt free in 5 years” really does seem like mis-selling now although I am sure they would argue that things like PPI claims which did not exist then were not covered.
Howard Brent says
Thanks for the feedback.
Just a few more things – my IVA started in 2006, and to my knowledge PPI claims did not exist at that time. Therefore, how can a creditor argue that I had a right to reclaim PPI at the point my IVA started, making it an (unknown) asset?
Also, a PPI claim repayment is made up of the original policy payments you made, plus interest, plus compensation. So if the creditor does send the cheque to the insolvency practitioner, surely this shouldn’t include the ‘compensation’ part of your claim?
I only made a claim for PPI on my Egg card, which is now part of Barclays, and was part of my IVA. However, Barclays has automatically ‘linked’ another credit card as part of the PPI claim (which wasn’t part of my IVA, as there was no money owing on it). Are they allowed to do this? I didn’t put in a PPI claim on the other card and didn’t ask them to include it. Do I have a right to tell Barclays NOT to include the other card? (I’m not going to get the money, so why should I allow them to send this additional amount to the insolvency practitioner).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think you will get anywhere with any of these arguments. You could talk to a solicitor who may take a different view.
Rick Borman says
Regarding the non existence of PPI….I am asking this very question although I know that Dfd slipped it in as a variation in my completion certificate. I am submitting a question to DfD as an official request for information though, asking for a written breakdown of how this new money is being distributed, and how it affects the “pence in the pound” that I have paid back. I am also retaining every bit of documentation just in case there is a turn round and in a few years we have companies begging for us to use them to claim back PPI payments taken by iva companies outside the terms of our IVA’s !!!! I plan to make DFD work hard….and I will be a thorn in their side for a while yet!! I wonder how many of us were taken in by the idea of being “debt free in 5 years” not understanding that “debt free” did not mean “free of debt” but only “freedom from paying it back unless we (the iva company) decide otherwise”??
Howard Brent says
I agree entirely. It does seem to be the “One rule for them…” scenario. Insolvency Practitioners are alowed to argue that they couldn’t tell us about PPI repayments being clawed back by them years afterwards because they didn’t know about PPI claims when we entered into our IVA – yet the fact that we as individuals didn’t know about PPI claims at the time doesn’t matter! I would love to see a legal precedent set for a ‘mis-selling’ claim against these firms who promised us we would be “debt free in 5 years”.
I’m wondering what will happen if there is a turnaround in years to come – will we be pursuing the IVA firms for our ‘stolen’ money or will the banks be responsible!
Louise King says
If I claim PPI from a creditor that is not part of the IVA as it was paid up, a) how will the IVA practitioner know of this and b) if it’s spent would they really persue this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you saying you have had a refund and spent it?
Louise King says
Not all of it. It was an old loan that was paid off and not of my IVA at all
Jo says
Hello I set up an Iva but didn’t continue with it & it was cancelled,I don’t have the cancellation letter or remember the company it was with as it was 8 years ago,my ppi claim people are saying HSBC want proof It was cancelled from the Iva company before they will pay my ppi from a mortgage I had 15 years ago and 2 credit cards all of which were paid off before I got into debt with my ex partner,I don’t know where to start with finding the Iva company??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Clutching at straws:
Might your ex remember the name of the IVA firm? have you asked your Claims Company (but they are normally about as much use as a chocolate teapot.)
Steve says
It appears the the Iva firm I used has been dissolved so obviously have no interest in any ppi I claim does this mean I will get all the money even from banks that were creditors can anyone answer this for me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Possibly. When an IVA firm is dissolved, current cases will be handed to another firm. Details of older cases may or may not have been… When did your IVA end? Which was your firm?
Lisa says
Hi there, I have a similar problem. I had an iva that closed in 2008. My old iva form Accuma no longer exist and have dissolved themselves. My bank RBS have upheld a PPI claim and made me an offer. RBS have said they have no interest in the money and put request it’s sent to me. RBS customer care now have the money but due to all the legal stuff have been told not to issue any money until they have legal advice to anyone with previous iva. So they are basically holding the money and have no idea or a timescale when I may get it. What can I do here? I’ve put in a complaint regarding lack of communication to me and I’ve spoken to the ombudsmen and they are looking into it. Just wandered if there is a timescale for this? They failed to respond to PPI timescale and withholding information.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I believe Accuma sold their IVA book to Grant Thornton. You could contact Grant Thornton to have it confirmed that they don’t hold any details about your IVA.
Lisa says
Ok I’ll try that then thank you. It’s just odd the bank have stated they have no interest and have released funds and told the care team to pay me but the care team are holding it and can’t even give time scales for anything.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m not expecting it to produce anything useful. But then you can tell the care team (and the Ombudsman) that you have tried this and GT don’t have your case.
Lisa says
That’s a great idea thank you. I luckily have kept all my iva paperwork and have my completion for full and final settlement statements etc to go to if need be. They seem to be a lot different from others paperwork now.
John G says
I have an iva which was completed in 2013, meeting the agreed amount of 93p in the pound return. Total debt not paid was around £5000, almost exactly the same as I am due to receive from PPI. However Debt Free Direct are unwilling to confirm the exact amount owed, and make murmurings of extra charges. In addition they returned £200 in respect of a creditor who could no longer be traced. How do I get any money from them – apparently they are not into talking!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the PPI money coming to you or to DFD? If it is going to DFD and its about the amount of debt that was written off, it seems unlikely you will get any back?
John G says
I haven’t signed the form giving the PPI seller permission to release to an IVA management company, so currently the money remains with the PPI seller.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well if DFD say they want it, then I doubt from what you said that you will get any money back. They are entitled to deduct their fees.
Lisa says
Hi there, I’ve found out that my iva went from the original Accuma, to grant Thornton and now they are called Aperture. The bank (customer care team) have confirmation that Aperture hold no records about my iva. However payment is still on hold. Do you know what happens now? I struggle to find any information or anyone that has a clue. They don’t know either and I think are awaiting legal advice or something.
G Kerry says
My IVA was copleted under rule 5.34 of the insovency rules 1986, is this R3 ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a reference to the standard insolvency legislation. It would apply to any IVA, it has no connection with R3 standard terms.
Rick Borman says
To all those in this waiting situation with PPI and iva issues I hope this helps…. I have now had a reply from debt free direct about my own case… I am not much for legal speak but it is now apparent that I did indeed sign a clause allowing them to carry on taking any “assets” received by me from any creditor that was part of my iva. The clause was built in to my completion certificate and was not negotiable in that refusing to sign simply meant my iva would not complete. Interestingly, they are saying that, once all PPI claims are complete, I will receive a letter and a certificate laying out the new status of my iva….and that then they will “according to our agreement, cease to act” with regards to my iva! OK so when it comes to PPI, how long is a piece of string? Well, it appears that only some banks have been forced to review previously settled claims so it is worth finding out if any of your creditors are amongst them. I can say that the Yorkshire bank (I had a “Custom Visa card”) and RBS are two of them. I have not had any contact from RBS but DfD have told me to expect contact!!!!!! I am guessing that my previous decision to not follow through any future requests for review is not a good idea since this may well only further extend Dfd’s window to ” act” so I will allow any requests to go through. I have looked very carefully into this and it is obvious to me now that the whole PPI thing has been well sewn up by iva supervisors so to all those hoping to tease out some PPI money from under your iva supervisors nose….forget it!!! I am seriously considering talking to a legal rep about whether my iva was mis-sold… I was told I would be debt FREE in 5 years which to me means free of debt, not just free from paying off debt! I have tried to find some sort of forum or group for others who feel the same but none seems to exist….yet!!!
Mr S. KILBEE says
We’ve said this before most of us now know we have now been sown up like a kipper. There needs to be some serious questions asked about the whole iva sarga. As it says debt free after 5 years. But most people are still being contacted after 8,9,10 year’s. Sorry that is not right. If you have taken out something like this it means you are trying to start again and you can’t if the iva keeps rearing it’s ugly head at any point. Debt free means just that debt free. So these judges who reversed their decision and the money grabbing iva supervisors, obviously haven’t read a dictionary. As I mentioned before the only way now is through parliament. I’m not overly keen on this but maybe the threat of 650 mp’s discussing this might wake them up to fact that when give a time frame they stick to it not change the rules to suit them.
Twenty months on I’ve not heard from my iva company who are holding a cheque for 22,500. Playing by their own rules as per the norm.
Bankruptcy would of solved all this, You knew you wouldnt be getting the ppi or any payment to do with debts from that period, Debt free fresh start obviously there would of been rules to follow but you wouldnt have been paying money through the nose with the knowledge most was going in fee’s. Mp’s here we come
Lisa says
I agree with you both Mr Kilbee and Rick, it’s all geared towards the creditors and no one seems to want to try to over turn this decision made recently. I get the impression and certainly in my case that a bank may uphold your ppi claim, the bank itself may not even have an interest in the money and their own internal insolvency want to pay it back to us the debtor. However, now because of this case they have to contact our iva and our insovancy practitioner. Even in my case where my iva was completed over 10 years ago and my old firm no longer exist, the next 2 firms that bought them out have no record of my iva, the money still sits at the bank because it’s all on hold! I mean everyone’s is and until they get legal advice for which they can give no time scale for what so ever, they aren’t paying out anything! I agree no one has a clue and no one can help or has an idea what happens now. I just keep going round in circles!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“no one seems to want to try to over turn this decision made recently.”
That would be because anyone taking this to court will be facing extremely large legal bills. No-one here should be hoping that this is going to happen – it isn’t.
Lisa says
Sorry Sara. I meant to maybe look at individual cases as individual. I personally have hit a dead end and it’s frustrating I guess that I can’t find anything out. Because my iva can’t be traced and it was a specific asset iva closed 10 years ago I don’t think anyone knows what happens legally.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I agree you are in a frustrating position. I suggest you give them a couple more months then put in a complaint to the bank and take it to the Financial Ombudsman.
Lisa says
Thank you Sara I’ll do that. I think it’s just an answer that would help in these situations.
Rick Borman says
Here is a thought….eventually some ombudsman or other will need to make a decision on all this money sat “on hold”. The decision must be fair to all affected so surely if there are many where the iva cannot be traced then the decision will have to be either pay out to everyone or not. It would not then be fair to say that if your iva can be traced then the money goes to that whereas if it can’t be traced then you get the money….so the only logical system would be to pay to everyone where the iva has been completed??? Also, I feel that this whole thing is drifting away from a specific fact….people on here are talking about money on hold that was paid out by banks ” that do not even have an interest” in the money….but the bank must have an interest because it will be one of your creditors from your iva so some of the money will go back to it!!! As I understand it, if the bank was never part of your iva then it will not know you had one and so will send the money direct to you anyway!!! I am now drafting a letter to DfD asking them to be more specific about when they will “cease to act” an my iva!
Rick Borman says
Since the deadline for new PPI claims is to be August 2018 I would think that will also be the “cease to act” date for those of us with incomplete completed iva cases! DFD have reluctantly (or so it seems) confirmed that they will write to me with an updated “situation report” on my completed iva when all claims completed. By this I think they mean when all my creditors have replied to PPI claims including reviews! Given that the Yorkshire bank suddenly reviewed mine after some 4 years I guess it will be after the PPI deadline of august 2018. When dealing with the bullet points I sent them for consideration, they seemed to have missed the one where I asked for their fees to be included in the breakdown of how the 7k is distributed. I know i can work that out anyway by looking at the other figures but it is interesting that they did not specifically confirm this!
All paperwork and emails are being stored for when the adverts start “did you lose out on PPI claims seized by your iva company after your iva was completed? Call this number now …….”
Alan says
Alan says
21 /7/17
Barclays Bank payed £5800 into my finished Iva with DFD 2yrs ago l contacted DFD about what happened to this over a year ago and to this day had no reply
At this present time lam pursuing another ppi with a recovery company will they be able to take they commission before DFD step in
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who knows, it’s best not to use a claims company in difficult PPI situations!
alan says
I have received a letter from Aperture regarding PPI referencing Plevin v Paragon and asking me to sign yet more forms. From what I can see online any redress already received included any commission and I am not due more which makes this a pointless exercise. Is this just another way for them to keep trying to grab more fees.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They will be retrying complaints which were rejected, not ones that were paid out.
Alan says
Hi.
I am now on my 5th year of an Iva , my wife isn’t part of it though but she has just put a claim in for ppi refund from her bank . Do I have to declare this to my IP and does she have to pay any claimed money to my Iva?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No it’s her money, nothing to do with your IVA.
Alan says
Many thanks
Maureen Jones says
We have been finished our IVA for over a year now, we stayed in for an extra year as we couldn’t
Remortgage our property. We have PPI owed to us but we were in an R3 IVA. When we got our letter of
Completion Certificate it said,from the IP that I Hereby Certify that the above debtor has fulfilled her
Obligations under the terms of the arrangement and that the proposal has been fully implemented.
Signed by the IP, also she sent out a Disbursement form, at the very bottom .6. General it states
As per the 4th Year Clause in the proposal I have investigated the Equity and realisation of any funds
From the Property and this has been realised by way of Variation of Extend.Then under that it states
Please note that as the Voluntary Arrangement has now been Completed, you are unable to pursue the
Debtor for the debts included in the arrangement, and any remaining balance should be written off
So can anyone advice us , does the mean we can claim our PPI money owed
Regards Maureen
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, sorry it doesn’t. You should ask you IVA firm if you can.
Maureen Jones says
Ok thanks, we didn’t sign any forms over to the company regarding the ppi ,so hopefully we can negotiate a deal, as long as they can’t make a claim on anything else,.
Maureen Jones says
Hi again , the most annoying thing is I have a friend who was bankrupt and they got their PPI after that had finished, and also someone was in a deft management with a company and they claimed and got theirs , how does make any sense, at least we tried, and have been made to feel bad about it. Maybe Everyone on here should stick together and appeal , don’t understand the difference.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No one who was bankrupt should get PPI unless it was taken out after their bankruptcy.
DMP, yes the PPI goes to the debtor, no problem. But the difference is that your IVA creditors have written off a chunk of your debts, that doesn’t happen in a DMP. Legally a DMP and an IVA are quite different..
caroline hardy says
I have been offered £900 settlment by Santander by they have sent the acceptence letter to DFD. My IVA ended August 16, but from the above comments I will not see a penny of it. I went through a ‘no win no fee’ company. Do I have to pay them their 30% fee if I don’t receive any of the money?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I hope DFD will be reasonable and pay these fees. But legally you owe them :(
caroline hardy says
I went through a claims company without realising that any PPI refund would be passed directly to DFD. They did not advise me of this, nor did they even ask if I had been in an IVA at any time. Do I have any redress against their fee? Because if they had explained this to me at the start, I would not have completed thier claim form. Funny how they managed to find £900 refund from Santander for a Debenhams card I used to have, when DFD supposedly tried on my behalf when I was in my IVA and only managed to find £157 from another company..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are DFD refusing to pay them?
The claims Co wasn’t particularly clever, loads of repeat applications are now being approved which were originally rejected.
Ian Davies says
My Wife and I both had IVAs with Payplan. We have both had our completion certificates through fairly recently ( over a year after our payments ended). We claimed PPI on accounts while in the IVA, but now we think we have found some more to claim, none against the creditors within the IVA. The question is, is it worth our while doing a PPI claim for this or will Payplan claim all that money back and add it to our payments? I am not a fan of Payplan as they dealt poorly with us, and the last thing I want is to put more money in their hands.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if your completions were recent, then you were probably asked to sign something saying Payplan could continue to collect PPI after completion – if you did, then all the money will go to Payplan. If you didn’t, then you need to ask Payplan what will happen.
Marion says
Just an update that people on site in similar situations may find interesting. I completed my IVA November 2013 and received Completion the following June (after requesting this by phone and email)
Following the closure I was awarded £15,500 from two banks for PPI, which of course went direct to GT (Now Aperture). This was 3yrs ago.
Despite repeated requests for the 8% return that they actually told me I would receive, I was finally advised to expect no monies refunded as their own ‘costs’ would claim it. I eventually 2yrs later received a cheque for 1p (Yes really) in full settlement with the proviso it would need to be cleared within 12 weeks or be forwarded back into their account. I did not bother to ‘cash’ it and was again left feeling upset and angry by this company.
However, out of the blue yesterday I received a cheque from Aperture for £800.90p for an alleged PPI of around £2,224.72p and listing the CMC fees and their own Supervisor Fees, leaving me with the amount set (fees totalled £1,423.82p).
The same proviso was in place to clear within 12 weeks, or I would forfeit it.
I was astounded to receive the cheque, but just to let others in similar positions know that anything is possible with this company.
I had totally given up when I received the 1p cheque last year.
Hope those waiting get positive results at some point.
Mum of one says
I made my last IVA payment at the end of June and am awaiting my certificate of completion. I found this site as I was looking for info re. claims companies solicited by IVA firms asking for forms to be signed to reinvestigate previously rejected PPI claims. From what I have read here I would like clarification. Do these firms have authority to ask for agreement to make claims ad infinitum irrespective of an IVA supposedly being completed? If so this confirms my belief never to recommend an IVA as a means of dealing with debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have to start with the usual caveat that it depends on the terms of your specific IVA. But for a recently completed IVA it is standard that the IVA firm will have the right to any PPI refunds irrespective of the fact the IVA has been completed.
There is no time limit on this except that there is a deadline for PPI complaints coming up in 2019.
Out of curiosity, what do you think you should have done instead of an IVA – bankruptcy, debt relief order, debt management or remortgage/sell the house?
Mum of one says
I wish I had dealt dealt directly with my creditors and tried to make arrangements suitable to all parties. I was initially with a debt management firm but felt this was going to take too long. I contacted an IVA firm which after a couple of years was taken over by another who have I feel have been unhelpful unsympathetic and on occasion incompetent. I disputed a claim by them I agreed to variations of terms yet I have no written proof or recollection of this. I had to take their word for it and instead of finishing in 2016 I had to make a further 12 monthly payments. They also lost a PPI comp payment cheque I was told I had to send them even though it was made out to me. It took them almost six months to sort that out. And in four years my so called supervisor has changed – I only knew this when I got my annual I&E review and saw the name had changed. And they are prone to refer to me in correspondence as Mr!! I try to have as little contact with them as possible – make the monthly payments and forget it. But then you get ANOTHER bloody form to sign from a claims firm they solicit to make a repeat comp claim. This is stressing me out! I’d hoped once the last payment was made and I eventually got the completion cert that would be it. Seems these folk could be haunting me for up to another two years – having had them hovering like a spectre in my life for seven years already.
Maureen Jones says
I know how you feel, we got into debt it was all to easy for that to happen, We had 1 of our IVA companies go bankrupt ,and if we were a big firm that would be ok, as they can just change their company name and start again. We also had a PPI accepted and had to send the cheque to them , but there has been no record of that money being paid in ,due to their bankruptcy that was £4000.00. Hopefully things will get better for you, it was the worse thing that we did, but we didn’t know what else to do. Ours has been finished now for over a year now , and we still worry . But try and look forward as we are doing , never ever again will we make that mistake again.
Mum of one says
I keep promising myself I’ll never ever take out a credit card again or a loan even after my credit rating improves! Sometimes it’s good to know there are others who have had similar experiences. Debt and financial problems in general aren’t subjects people like to talk about.
Maureen Jones says
Hi again I agree with that we don’t talk about debt its frowned upon, but I now think it’s happening even now to more and more people.
When you go into an I V A the only people making money is the companies, maybe one day , we might find out that this also is a wrong thing.
Good Luck going forward.
alan says
My problem with the IVA is that you are not told that became of fees and with the PPI money now being chased you may end up paying more money back than you originally owed. The companies are able to keep collecting fees so although you may have paid back all you owed the total given to your creditors is a lot less. Maybe a cap on fees would help.
Mr & Mrs says
Hi,
After reading through all of the posts we have a question regarding PPI.
We finished our Harrington Brooks IVA in May 2016 and received our completion certificate not long after.
Recently looked into PPI, after reading up on claims after completing IVA we thought what’s the point, anyway thought what the heck and went ahead anyway expecting the money to goto the IVA firm.. fast forward a few weeks and low and behold a cheque has been sent to us!
We had been upfront and stated about previously being in an IVA and RBS even stated that the money would goto to IVA firm after any outstanding debt on the account was taken from the PPI.
What do we do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know what their policy is. You could cash the cheque and put in an account safe in case you are ever contacted about it. Or phone HB up and ask.
Dianna Kyle says
We had a an IVA with Grant Thornton which has been completed for over 2yrs – however they engaged a company to try and retrieve any PPI monies back – long story short we got £6000 back from the Halifax – this money was sent directly to us – we used it to improve our home – Grant Thornton changed names to Aperture and have informed us that they have no interest in the monies – however the Slater Law PPI recovery company have since sent us a letter demanding their fee ?? Why do we have to at them a fee of 50% of the refund when we didn’t engage them and they have been paid a fee off Aperture for their services – they are threatening us with taking our home off us or putting a charge on the property – can anyone help/advise us
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you sign any SL papers?
Dianna Kyle says
Good morning – we were forced to sign in so much as they said we had no choice and that they were acting on behalf of the IVA Company and we had to sign.
regards
Dianna
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case, you have a contract with them, they did the work to get the refund and I am afraid you owe them their extortionate fee :(
And they were quite right – you did have to sign.
Dianna Kyle says
Is there any legal company that could possibly get something through the court system to ascertain when an IVA is complete – especially if you receive your certification through the IVA Practitioner that you have successfully completed the IVA – because this feels like highway robbery without the mask – and to be honest it feels like there is no end to this
How can SL be paid off two for the same work is that legal ??
regards
Dianna
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry I should have asked – at what point did you sign their papers, before or after your IVA was completed?
Dianna Kyle says
It was during the process of completion and if I recall correctly probably after
regards
Dianna
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are going to have to find this out. if it was before you received your completion certificate, I can’t think of any grounds that you could challenge it on.
If it was afterwards, then there MAY be grounds to say that you should not have been told you were obliged to sign it.
NB so far as I know SL would not have been paid by Aperture – their income only came from refunds obtained.
Dianna Kyle says
In the answer above it says that if the money was sent to the debtor (me) then the IVA Companies wont go after you aggressively – well this is incorrect as Slater Law – threatened me with taking me to court and putting a legal document on my home which was not part of the IVA (it was not included ) Ms Slater very aggressively told me that she was happy to wait for the rest of my life to get the PPI back – we have entered into an agreement whereby they receive £30 per month – I have no income only my husband works and he brings home £1200 per month we are on the breadline with no spare monies so we cancelled Sky to give her the money we were only on the bare minimum package – so it seems that advice is not true – she also took into account my DLA – which is under review due to going on PIP not sure if they will give it me as most people are losing their allowance so if its a negative decision not sure what we’re going to do – I still have the tumour and the cluster headaches and Blood Pressure of 210/97 (today) and Arthritis but Slater Law told me they were not interested in my ailments as she put it only in getting their money from the PPI
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Slater Law do have a reputation for being highly difficult to deal with. If you feel you have been bullied by them into paying more than you can afford, I suggest you put in a formal written complaint to your IVA firm, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/complaint-iva/.
Jamie bennett says
Hi, I’m Iva ended in Feb 2017. I was with Creditfix, they looked into ppi but found nothing to include in the agreement. I told them about a number of accounts but they were not interested.
Now the Iva has finished I attempted to claim ppi and I have 7 historical accounts dating back to 1998 which I am told I can claim against. They all relate to HSBC who are trying to make me jump through a number of hoops.
So reading this I guess that I won’t see a penny…. would that be correct?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to ask Creditfix. They may want all the money, they may be happy to do a deal so you get some of it, or they may be happy for you to have it.
Neil Brooks says
Hi, Our IVA finished last year (2016) with dfd – we did not sign their deed of assignment. dfd eventually after months of phone calls and emails and letters sent – issued our letter of completion. Two months ago I approached a company to investigate if i had PPI – which i had. This company did ask if i had or was in an IVA at any time – which i ticked the box as ‘yes’, to which they requested a letter of ‘no interest’ from DFD. emailed dfd for this letter of no interest but to response. two weeks ago i received a cheque from one of the banks and straight away a request for payment 26% of the sum was made from these claims guys. which i paid. i now have dfd in correspondence with me also stating that all monies received should be declared and passed on to them (also received letters from RBS).. Now the company that was investigating my claim are chasing fees for other amounts that have been agreed by the banks but i have not received any payment just letters and i assume these payments have gone straight to dfd. i agree with the above that debt free in 5 years is misleading and will keep my paperwork handy. I now have further debt due to investigating if i have PPi and the stress has started all over again. be careful of these sharks. my question is.. even though we did not sign the DOA with dfd and we have the completion certificate how can we still be under dfd thumb?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you read the article above it explains that even if you didn’t sign anything the PPI may still have to go to your IVA firm. Talk to DFD – they can probably sort out a deal with your claims company.
Paul moss says
I entered into an IVA in 2005 shortly after I got a new job with a considerable pay rise. My agreeded iva payments would be £19000 over the 5 years ended up paying closer to £30000 of the £37000 debt. It’s now 2017 I have my completion certificate. My practitioners are still claiming my ppi 7 years later. Ironically one of the loans came with so much ppi think there were 4 policies for the one loan which lead me into the IVA in the first place. In hindsight I should not of entered the IVA I could of made the payments and the excessive ppi payments would be mine. Feel I was hoodwinked totally!!!
Alan says
Hi , slightly unrelated but do personal injury claims have to be included in an iva ? The claim would purely be for pain and suffering not any loss of earnings etc .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was the injury before your IVA started?
Alan says
Hi
No it’s recent , during the Iva
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, if it had been before the IVA then there may have been something about it in your IVA proposal. As it is after th start, it depends on the standard terms in your IVA. Most IVAs have a clause such as the following:
” “excluded assets” are those assets that are excluded from an estate in bankruptcy and any other assets identified in the proposal as being excluded from the arrangement; “after acquired assets” means any asset, windfall or inheritance with a value of more than £500, other than excluded assets that you acquire or receive between the date the arrangement starts and the date it ends or is completed, if this asset could have been an asset of the arrangement had it belonged to or been vested in you at the start of the arrangement;”
If your IVA has this, then a PErsonal Injury payout for pain & suffering should not count as a windfall that has to be paid into your IVA because this type of payout is excluded from bankruptcy.
But you need to inform your IVA firm that you receive it. One possible use would be to settle the rest of your IVA early if it is big enough?
Alan says
Both of those are listed in the definitions section yes . Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you shouldn’t have a problem. But you are obliged to inform your IVA firm about the money.
Justin Pearce says
I finished and closed my IVA 3 years ago.. ppi of £882.45 has just been paid to the IVA company that took over my account / company. I’m sure there was a clause saying any payments would be devided 50/50 between myself and the debt soloutions company. I’ve long since binned any documents relating to 7 of the hardest years of my life! I started my IVA with Accuma and it was taken over by Grant Thornton, now Aperture Debt Solutions. Does anyone remember anything like that in their IVA?
Thanks,
Justin
Alex says
I had an iva that finished in 2014 it was with kinggate insolvency who have no ceased trading & have been taken over by vanguard. During my iva kingsgate investigated my history looking for ppi however drew blanks. Also on a side note another company I used were unable to find any as well. Recently however a different company have found numerous claims I have that are valid. The Rbs have just replied offering me £12011 & that a cheque has been issued to me & should arrive no later than the 27th Nov. I’ve obviously sent the paperwork back & they e confirmed the above via text & letter. Does the above mean I will see this or not? I’ve reviewed all my paperwork & no where in it does it say about my owing any future ppi claims to the iva company which now doesn’t exist.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You may be lucky. Old completed cases may not have been transferred over to Vanguard. The only way to be sure is, I am afraid, to ask Vanguard.
Alex says
Ok fingers crossed. Will check with them thank you
Alex says
Read about vanguard & they say they aquired all Kingsgate active accounts on the 1/8/2016. So definitely fingers crossed. Do you think they would keep any records back to 2014???
Sara (Debt Camel) says
All I can say is that it’s possible they didn’t.
Alex says
Hi so yesterday I received my cheques from the RBS worth £12011 for my ppi claim. I’m currently waiting fir them to clear then I can pay my ppi company. I’ve had no contact with old IP who have ceased trading or the company who took over vanguard. Would the RBS not of been in contact about me with them? As they texted me & said if I’ve ever been or are in an iva that my payout could be impacted. However its not been. Does this mean the money is mine?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As I said before, the only way to be sure is to ask Vanguard. If you don’t, there is some risk, I can’t guess how big a risk it is,
Riss says
Does it make any difference to claiming PPI if you paid a lump sum IVA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you ended a normal IVA with a payment of a lump sum – no that wouldn’t make a difference.
If the IVA consisted of just one payment at the start, then you need to look at the IVA proposal. It may have been drafted so that the only asset going into your IVA was the lump sum, in which case you should be fine to reclaim PPI. Your IVA firm will be able to confirm this.
Riss says
It consisted of one lump sum. Thanks I’ll look into it then. I’ve always avoided as never thought I’d have any right to keep but it sounds like there may be some hope after all.
Nuala says
I successfully completed my IVA in April this year. I have instructed a claims company to investigate PPI (up to now 3 have been identified) ; rather than run the risk of not getting paid out and the money going direct to my the insolvency company oh and me being liable for the commission fee I rang the IP and explained what I was in the process of doing. They told me I was ok to keep any refund. I feel so much better for being honest and can hopefully look forward to some extra pennies!!!
Jon says
Hi Everyone!
I completed my IVA in May 2008 with Tenon Debt Solutions, but it looks like theyre no longer trading. I Dont think i ever got a certificate at the end of my IVA, but im no longer on the Insolvency register, I have and excellent Credit score and have had no problems getting credit (Including a Mortgage) for years now. Im Looking to put several PPI claims in with lots of creditors, some that were included in my IVA, some that were not. Ive searched high and Low on the web to try and find Tenon Debt Solutions for some info on my IVA as i have no Paperwork at all for it anymore but cannot find anything on the web about them. Im looking at using a one of the Claims companies to help me as ive also no paperwork on my old debts. I just dont want to claim and end up paying them their fees out my own pocket! Should i try or not bother as the IVA has been completed nearly 10 years!!??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
RSM Tenon’s IVA business was sold to Grant Thornton, now known as Aperture, in 2012. I would be surprised if they know anything about your very old IVA but I suggest you ask them.
BUT don’t use a claims firm. It’s a waste of money for every one, they send stock emails that you can find online and which will take you no time at all to do. Especially in potentially difficult situation like post IVA,
You don’t need to know your old account numbers, the major PPI firms now all have helplines (details in the MSE link below) you can phone up and ask even if you don’t know the account details.
Claims firms have no magic way of discovering this, they just write an email saying “Mr Jon had a credit card with you before 2005 on which he paid PPI. Please provide details of this account as we will be assisting him to make a claim for PPI misselling”. Not difficult!
So, use the helplines to get some more information. MSE has an excellent page on PPI reclaims, with an easy checklist for bounds to complain see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/ppi-loan-insurance.
And these days you d9nt need any grounds, most people who ever paid PPI will be entitled to automatic “Plevin” compensation even they are absolutely sure they wanted it and they could have claimed in it and it wasn’t missold. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ppi-deadline-august-2019-plevin/
Jon says
To be honest I’m a bit reluctant to call this Grant Thornton as they sound like a bunch of Crooks!!
By the sounds of it, if I make a claim from any of my creditors, they will more that likely send any payment for any PPI compensation straight to these guys, and to be honest, reading this thread, they do not sound great to deal with!
Thanks for the information on self claiming, I really didn’t know the letter would be that generic, I also thought that they would fob me off and I’ve no weight behind my claim, hence using a company.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well why not try just one PPI complaint? Pick one of the main lenders with a helpline listed in the MSE link. See how it goes. See how easy/hard it is. See if the money comes to you. As I said, most people will be getting Plevin payouts.
Jon says
I’ll try that!! Thank you for your time and advise, I will update you once I’ve heard something ??
Ivafreeorsoithought says
My IVA finished in aug 2015. IP wrote in Jan 2015 to say they had paid a professional consultant to look at my ppi and said there was none. Charged fee for this in my arrangement. At the start of august 2015 ip wrote saying IVA had completed and they’d issue a statement if I signed a ppi waiver agreement. I never signed it. But I still received the final notice and closure of IVA anyway 2 weeks later . All done! This year I checked with credit card company and they ended up agreeing £12k ppi refund that they sent to IP. iP has sent 7k to creditors. IP has charged the IVA £5k for their ppi fees. I now have to pay 40% tax on interest. Which ends up around £3k. IVA said there’s no money for me and just sends back copies of documents I never signed as evidence of why they can do this. Any advice appreciated. I don’t have £3k lying around to pay the tax man.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who is this IVA company?
(You wouldn’t normally have to pay 40% tax, usually 20% is deducted at source and you only have to pay the higher rate tax. But of course you won’t want to pay any tax on money you never received.)
Ivafreeorsoithought says
Creditfix who took over at the end of iva. Credit card company deducted 20%. But I’m now a higher rate taxpayer and there was £7k of interest. So I’ll be liable for the other 20% plus ni (I think). It’s more the £5k (40%) fee for them doing nothing which is most upsetting.
Sarah says
Can anyone help – I had an IVA that finished in January 2005, i have just had some terms to sign from RBS with a refund but they are saying that they can keep the money if i am or have been in an IVA as part of the debt. My completion certificate clearly states lenders cannot come after me for any further payments. any advice would be appreciated.
Mr S. Kilbee says
Sorry but you must have a good IP because I finished mine over 6years ago my IVA company haven’t even contacted since I had confirmation they were holding a cheque for 22,000. So how come someone who has just finished their IVA can keep their PPI but someone who finished years ago can’t. Or is it just the amount.
Consuelo Pensacola says
I find it terrible and disgusting that after completing my IVA in 2012, and going through 5+ years of agony by being monitored to every inch of my life (financially) due to irresponsible lending (and bad luck, admittedly as I was unemployed for quite some time reason why I got into arrears in my repayments) I still have to send the miss-sold PPI monies to the Supervisor (IVA solicitors). It is a rip off. There is no justice in this world.
Nicola Leonard says
I took out an IVA in 2002 and it failed in 2003 as I could no longer make the payments. I advised the IP that I could not make the monthly payments as I was going on maternity leave. They said that, as it failed, then I would have to make me bankrupt. Since that last letter in 2003 I have heard absolutely nothing from either the IP or the institutions I owed money to. I have had no credit issues since. Could I make claims for any missold PPI to any of the institutions named in my IVA and if so, would I get to keep any of the payment (if I am eligible?). Any advise would be gratefully received.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can try … that is such a long while ago it would seem to be unlikely any paperwork from your IVA remains. It is possible though that any refunds would be set off against the balance of the debt you owed… If you decide it’s worth a go, DO NOT go through a claims company – it’s easy to do it yourself and that way if a refund doesnt come to you, at least you don’t owe the claims company there fees.
Nicola Leonard says
Thanks for coming back to me so promptly, Sara. My only concern is that my previous debtors would then come back to me for other payments now I now have an asset (home). I have nothing to lose with the PPI reclaim in any case. Could they take any of my other assets if I open this can of worms?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
All the debts that were in your IVA are now “statute barred” (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/statute-barred-debt/) and by a very long way. Your creditors would have had to take action against you within 6 years from the time your IVA failed.
You have two potential problems – your IVA firm may try to claim the money and the lenders may try to offset any PPI refund against the debts they were owed (they can do this even after the debts are statute barred). But you don’t need to worry about any of your old creditors trying to take any of your new assets.
Nicola says
Thanks for your advice. Very very helpful !!!
Al B says
Hi Sara,
I’m 3 months off completing a 6 year IVA. I should be relaxing as it’s nearing its end but I’m not. The problem I’ve got is that I’ve been contacted by a PPI claim company who were instructed by my iva company. I’ve no problem with this as knew this was something written into my iva terms. However I have been rather foolish in taking out payday loans whilst in my iva. I can pay these off in the next month. The reality has hit me because the forms I’ve signed for the PPI says they will do a credit check to get all my current and past accounts. They will see I have open loans. So will they tell my iva company and then I will be done for as I’m in breach of my iva. I don’t want to fail at this late stage. Will it be more favourable to wait and send the forms in after I’ve paid the loans back? Or will my iva company still fail me with no outstanding loan and two months to go. Please help with any advice. I’m so angry at myself right now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your IVA company is unlikely to complete your IVA until you have returned these forms.
The PPI claims firm may only be interested in PPI, it may not tell your IVA company about anything else, but I see why you are worried. Also some IVA companies will ask to see your last few bank statements before they complete an IVA and they may well see the payday loans on those.
How much do the payday loans add up to? How are yopu going to be able to afford to repay them?
Al B says
Yes I think this will be my priority this and next month. Christmas isn’t the priority this year! Do I have to use this form appointed by my iva company or could I pursue it myself. After all it’s about getting the max amount of money for the iva and these companies always take a very extortionate cut in any monies recovered. Then I wouldnt have any credit checks. I’ve already been sent the paperwork through with the all companies included in my iva and details of who they wish to pursue and the multiple letters of authority to these companies so I know who to write to?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The IVA firm is likely to want you to use their claims firm I am afraid.
David Palmer says
I do not think that some people are realising they are being taken for a ride, initialy PPI is being removed from our accounts without authorisation which in my mind is stealing , I specifically told the Bank I did not want PPI and yet for 15 years they just helped them selves to my money , the loans i had were for boatbuilding which was amptily covered by Marine insurance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I understand why it feels very unfair, but in an IVA part of the bargain for you having some debt written off is your creditors get any windfalls you are entitled to. And that includes PPI.
these days I always suggest a client tries to reclaim PPI before starting an IVA – if you can get enough back, an IVA may not be needed!
David Palmer says
It is not that it is unfair it is just plain robbery on a legal scale We only owed £16 – £18,000 and were charged £20,000 for two IVA’s
by Totemic ,this was after spending 8 years in a DMA this whole system is a giant racket which needs to be curtailed, by the Government who set it up.
Low and behold they discover we have been robbed by our Bank from the year 2000 to 2008 of £52,000 this Cheque made out to my Wife and I has remained in some mercenary’s Bank for over a year now gathering interest.
Lyn Kelly says
hoping for a good answer to this
My IVA company that i finished in 2015 has said that we have completed our iva and no longer act for us, we have tried to claim for some existing PPI which wasnt included in the IVA we paid this off ourselves out of a pension, the bank have said now that they are waiting for a court order to say if we are entitled or not to it can you advise please
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what do you mean by “some existing PPI which wasnt included in the IVA we paid this off ourselves out of a pension” ?
Lyn Kelly says
we paid the debt off with the pension then realised we had ppi with them we paid the debt ourselves and they wont let us have the ppi back
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, I am afraid it doesn’t matter that this debt wasn’t in your IVA, your IVA firm may still have a right to claim the PPI on it – it’s very frustrating and feels unfair but that is the result of the court case discussed in the article above.
Lyn Kelly says
Can you advise how long this goes on for how long after an iva has finished are they entitled to claim this
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is no limit.
Deborah says
Hi, I have received a cheque for PPI I claimed after my IVA had finished in October 2013. I never thought I would be awarded anything just did it to shut the bank up ( who sent me the forms) Can I legally keep it or do I have to send it to my old IVA company (it has changed its name now)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is your old IVA company?
David Black says
I had 4 credit cards from 1988 onwards.
when i was made redundant from my job i never had enough money to pay them all off.I therefore got a new job and agreed with the card companies to pay off £10 a week x 4 = £40 a week plus interest until it was paid.I paid off all 4 credit cards with interest after some years.Am I entitled to PPI?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did you lose your job? Do you have any reason to think there was PPI on these credit cards? Did you try to make a PPI claim when you lost your job?
Have you had an IVA, if yes, who was your IVA firm and when did your IVA finish?
Carolyn Wood says
Hi
having read the above I see that persuing PPI claim would be a bad idea even though my IVA ended in 2011 and I have the certificate of Completion. My question is that one of my creditors put PPI into my IVA and used it to make sure they received a larger percentage (3000 of a 33000 claim) how is this going to be dealt with and was this legal. Comically it would be that creditor that I would be doing the PPI claim against as I had many years of PPI.Should I leave sleeping dogs or speak to someone.
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well if your IVA ended in 2011, you could ask the firm what will happen if you reclaim PPI now. Yours is so long ago that its possible they won’t have any documentation on it any more so you may be able to!
J Boy says
Hi Sarah
I have made a Payday Loan Complaint , which is currently sitting with the FOS. I was in a IVA which was completed 3 years ago , the FOS have said they need to contact the IVA company to see if they have any interest on my Complaint , just outlining this is not a PPI claim its a Payday Loan Complaint . Can or will the IVA company claim anything should the complaint be upheld?
Regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Interesting question. So far I haven’t heard of any IVA company trying to claim these. Did you sign anything to say that PPI could be collected after your IVA had finished?
J Boy says
Hi Sarah
When i was in the IVA i signed a document for the IVA Company to claim PPI , which the company did and distributed to the creditors and took a massive cut themselves for agent fees. Also can an IVA be re opened once you have received the Completion Certificate for the IVA and you are removed from the Insolvency Register ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“can an IVA be re opened once you have received the Completion Certificate for the IVA and you are removed from the Insolvency Register?” no – well it may be possible with the permission of a court I guess, but it isn’t necessary to do this to claim and distribute PPI.
When were the payday loans? Before the IVA, is they are probably more than 6 years old, who are the payday lenders? or during the IVA, in which case how much interest did you?
J Boy says
The Pay Day Loans are about 5 years old onwards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So they were taken out during the IVA I assume.
Technically you may have been in breach of your IVA by taking out these loans, but it’s really hard to see why your IVA firm would be interested in this at this point in time.
The IVA firm could argue that the right to make a payday loan refund was an asset which you acquired during your IVA. I haven’t heard of any firm trying to do this. How much interest did you pay during your IVA – any paid afterwards could not be claimed by the IVA firm.
Bailey says
Hi Sarah, I have an issue with Aperture. They have said that we are no longer in an IVA and they no longer act on our behalf, yet are still claiming PPI from us? It’s a complicated case which you have helped me on last year. However, I’ve been going through paperwork after a conversation with them regarding their fees, and they said everything is detailed in the Mas Variation document. When I’ve looked, it refers you to the Insolvency Rules (Northern Ireland) 1991, where there are no specific costings mentioned! How am I supposed to find out how much Aperture will take (the last time they took 47%). Thanks.
Christine Turvill says
I finished my iva 6 years ago. Tesco credit card have written to me saying they owe me money 1600 and would pay into my account on return of my completion cert. The iva company I used have now changed name and address but Tesco are now saying they are looking into my iva about payments. Surely after 6 years it is now closed. I did not contact Tesco, they wrote to me in the first instance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As the article above explains, an IVA firm may claim PPI years after closure. But after 6 years it may be that the money will come to you if they don’t hold your records any more.
Mandy Hardwicke says
Hi Sarah I had an Iva which was completed in about 2006 to which I paid poi without knowing, I have attempted to claim it back from the company who have said they will not pay it back as apparently I did make a payment so therefore must have know I was paying it, they have said if I would like to take it to the ombudsman then to feel free, my Iva company was freeman jones
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well send it to the Ombudsman then… there is a risk your IVA company may claim the refund, but after all this time they may well not have your records anymore.