In March 2017, the Court of Appeal decision in the Green v Wright case was published: Mr Wright’s IVA firm was allowed to collect PPI after his IVA ended, even though he hadn’t consented to this before his completion certificate was issued.
As questions about this continue to arrive, I thought it would be useful to summarise the current situation: what is clear and what is less clear.
The Court of Appeal decision
The full decision is here: Green v Wright verdict. Here are some articles on the decision by some of the lawyers that have been involved:
- Paul French’s blog: PPI claims survive completion of IVA for creditors (he was the barrister for the IVA firm in the Appeal);
- Kathryn Maclennan’s blog: Green -v- Wright: complete does not necessarily mean complete (she was the solicitor for the debtor in the original court case).
Before you read on:
I am not a lawyer and I can’t give you advice on what you should do. When I say things like “I cannot see” or “This seems very unlikely”, I could be wrong. I am giving a layman’s opinion, hoping it will help you to consider your own situation.
If there is a large amount of PPI, you may want professional advice. You can go to your local Citizens Advice or a Law Centre – that would be free – or you may prefer a solicitor with experience in personal insolvency. If you decide to go to court over this, you have to consider that if you lose you may have to pay not just your own legal costs but the other side’s as well.
Common misunderstandings
Here are some points that keep cropping up which are worth emphasising:
“My PPI was for a debt that wasn’t included in my IVA as it had been repaid”
This doesn’t make a difference. You had the right to reclaim PPI at the point your IVA started and it is this right which is an “asset” of your IVA even if you didn’t realise it.
“My IVA says that it includes windfall assets received whilst IVA is open, but it is now closed”
This is a standard clause in most IVAs but it isn’t relevant to the PPI issue. PPI is not being claimed as a windfall. PPI is being claimed for your creditors because the right to make a claim was an asset you owned at the start of your IVA, this has nothing to do with the windfall clause.
“They will try to get any money I inherit – this is never going to end!”
This isn’t going to happen. An inheritance (or lottery win, or taking money from your pension etc) is treated as windfall if it happens during your IVA. But after your IVA ends the money is yours if one of these events happens. The court case doesn’t relate to windfalls at all.
“I would have been better off going bankrupt”
That may be correct. But PPI isn’t relevant to this – if you had gone bankrupt all the PPI would have gone to the Official Receiver.
“It’s not fair because this wasn’t explained to me at the start”
When your IVA started no-one had any idea that this court case would happen. You can’t blame your IVA firm for not telling you something they weren’t aware of.
The simplest cases
“My IVA hasn’t finished yet”
If your IVA is still in progress then your IVA firm has the right to collect this PPI. If you refuse to co-operate with the claims company they appoint, you could be in breach of your IVA terms by refusing a reasonable request and your IVA may be failed.
“I have made my last payment but they won’t give me my completion certificate unless I agree to them collecting the PPI afterwards”
If you don’t sign they will keep your IVA open until they are happy they have collected all the PPI, which could be years. It’s your choice, but I can’t see any options which will let you get the PPI money.
“I had to sign documents authorising them to collect PPI before I got my completion certificate”
Many people in the last few years have been asked to sign a deed of assignment saying that any PPI paid after their IVA completed should go to their IVA firm. The Court of Appeal case doesn’t change this.
In any of the above situations, the PPI is going to your IVA firm, I can’t see anything sensible you can do to stop this and there isn’t much point in you reading the rest of this article.
Mr Wright’s IVA used R3 standard terms and conditions
The Appeal Court decision was that Mr Wright’s IVA created a trust which did not end with the completion of the IVA unless there was specific wording to state it ended. This wording wasn’t in Mr Wright’s completion certificate.
The Appeal Court decision was based on the specific terms and conditions of Mr Wright’s IVA, which in his case had used the R3 standard terms.
If you aren’t sure if your IVA used these terms, ask your IVA firm or dig out your IVA documents. If you see Produced by the Association of Business Recovery Professionals this is an R3 IVA. Anything that says Consumer IVA Protocol is not an R3 IVA.
Let’s look first at the situation if you have an R3 IVA, then at how this may change if you don’t.
For people with an R3 IVA
If your IVA used the R3 terms, you should assume the Appeal court decision applies to you. It is highly unlikely that your completion certificate would have had any wording to bring the IVA trust to an end. The same argument – that specific wording is needed to end the trust – is likely to apply even if your IVA completed with a full and final settlement or failed.
Claims which haven’t yet been paid out
If a PPI complaint is upheld, it is very likely that your bank will ask the IVA firm if they should have the money, the IVA firm will say Yes (because of the Court of Appeal decision) and the bank will pay it to them. If this happens there is very unlikely to be anything you can do to challenge this.
Thinking about some possible exceptions:
- if your IVA is so old that your IVA firm can’t be located, I think the bank will eventually send you the money. See A PPI claim after an old failed IVA for details.
- If your IVA is so old the firm no longer has enough records for it to be able to distribute IVA to your creditors, it may be happy for the money to come to you. If you have an old R3 IVA you could enquire about this.
- If your creditors have been paid in full, the money should come to you. You are entitled to ask your IVA firm for an account which shows how much money has been distributed. If you are thinking you may be near the full payment point because a lot of PPI has already been reclaimed, don’t forget that a large proportion will have been taken by the claims firm and not gone to your creditors.
Will your IVA firm be trying to reopen old cases to reclaim the PPI? That is likely to depend on the firm. I have heard that some firms don’t intend to reopen these cases, but if you start the complaint, they will claim the PPI.
If your IVA firm wants to reopen your old case and asks you to sign something to allow them to reclaim the IVA, it isn’t clear that they have any sanctions against you if you refuse. If they mention the Green v Wright decision, you could ask them what will happen if you don’t sign.
You could also propose a solution in which you split any PPI reclaimed – half to you and half to the IVA firm. If your IVA firm agrees to this, you need to get it very clearly in writing. Also you do not want their claims firm making the complaint and taking a huge cut first – offer to make the complaint yourself.
PPI has already been paid to your IVA firm
There is nothing you can do about this.
PPI has already been paid to you
If you have spent the money, this is a very worrying situation. It seems unlikely that an IVA will be aggressive in this situation – who should it pursue, you or the bank who sent you the money? And if you don’t have any assets, it’s hard to see how pursuing you could produce any gain for the creditors. Don’t let yourself be pressured into doing anything silly like trying to borrow this money to hand to the IVA firm – just explain your situation.
For people with non R3 IVAs
There is no legal clarity for non-R3 IVAs. There hasn’t been a court decision on any of these cases and they can have very different terms. Some could be close to an R3 IVA in the areas that matter, but some may not be similar.
It seems unlikely this is going to change. It is hard to imagine a debtor is going to want to go to court, given the costs that Mr Wright has ended up with after losing his case.
In most respects similar points apply to those on the R3 case above, except the IVA firm itself is on less solid legal ground. You may decide that they are largely bluffing… but this still isn’t a very comfortable position for you to be in. If you feel you are being pressured unreasonably, put in a formal complaint to the firm and then to the IVA Complaints Gateway.
IVA firms may take different views.
- Some may choose not to try to reclaim PPI after a completion certificate has been issued if no deed of assignment has been signed.
- Some may try to reclaim, but it isn’t clear what possible sanctions they have if you refuse to co-operate. In 2018 and 2019 ClearDebt and Aperture have been sending out some letters that some customer feel are threatening about allowing the firms to make PPI and other financial claims for IVAs that have completed or have failed some time ago. See Aperture (previously called Grant Thornton) sending PPI letters after IVA completion for what your options are.
- If you try to reclaim PPI, it seems pretty likely that the bank may pay it to your IVA firm.
- Some firms may agree if you offer to split the PPI.
- If PPI has been paid to the debtor and spent, again it seems unlikely that the IVA firm will pursue this aggressively.
Comments
You are welcome to comment below but I cannot guess what your IVA firm will choose to do and I am not going to speculate.
After the Appeal Court verdict in March 2017 this article was re-published with up-to-date information.
Roger Coomber says
As previously stated I got my I.V.A. certificate in July 2014. We have been offered a retirement bungalow with the local council which means us selling our house. With this being in joint names have Aperture any legal claims to the money we make from the sale.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. You should check the Land Registry to make sure Aperture has removed the restriction after they issued your completion certificate. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/end-of-iva/
Vicki Blaylock says
I think there should be a government inquiry into all this as it is because of greedy banks and now these recovery companies most people have fallen foul. Perhaps a lobby of MPs?
Ian says
I’ve already gone to my MP saying just this. Rich get richer and poor get poorer.
Banks and government ensuring both get money back. Banks their own mis sold PPI monies and the government who bailed the banks out in 2008 when they were insolvent. Corrupt
Amber says
I completed my IVA 3 years ago, they did PPI claims for my individual debts, but my ex partner did not agree to PPI claim on our joint debts so they could not be claimed at that point which the IVA company agreed with. My ex partner has now asked about possible claims of PPI, I know I am unable to claim PPI on the debts included in my IVA as this will automatically go to my IVA/creditors (I am not sure how accurate this is but I also got told it would re-open my debts with creditors which I certainly do not want when I paid over £19,000 of a £25, 000 debt through my Iva). The thing I am unsure of is that my ex partner and I had 3 mortgages in our time together, the final one being paid off when we sold the property when we separated, and he asked about PPI for them, what I wondered is if I was to agree to this claim would the money go to the IVA/creditors despite my IVA completed 3 years ago ? Even if the debt wasnt included in the IVA and had previously been paid off?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If PPI is claimed on debts that were in your IVA, any refund is normally used to repay those debts. It doesn’t “reopen” the debts – you won’t be chased for the rest – but you probably won’t see any money from it.
If PPi is claimed on debts that were repaid before the start of your IVA it is likely (but not certain) your IVA firm will claim any refund. You could contact them to ask?
Carl Hines says
I won a ppi whilst in the IVA on a mortgage I had with Nat West this mortgage was paid up and I won over £5000 but as I had a couple of loans that were with Nat West that was under the IVA,Nat West debt Recovery team held on to that money to off set and cleared one of my loans with them.
I think it was unfair as the Mortgage was paid up years before my IVA it was not linked with my loans but they still took the money, it’s so sad that PPIs should be used to off set any debts specially if ur out of an IVA as this insurances added onto loan payments did not help people and in cases caused us to be in debt and end up in IVAs.
The banks never loss out even through the IVA the government compensates them !!!
Neil Dunn says
Interesting read. Although I don’t have any PPI (as far as I know), Is there a defined period Iva trusts have in which they should attempt to complete their investigations concerning items such as PPI? Otherwise they could drag their feet and keep this going on for years and years. All this time they are retaining personal financial records, surely without a fixed period of time this contravenes GDPR?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
PPI complaints are ending in August this year. You are not going to win a complaint about this.
darren kelly says
Hi,
I received my completion certificate in Aug 2016, but have just been contacted by WageDayAdvance representatives starting I am due some Redress. I hadn’t started the claim, until they asked me to submit the claim today. If i do receive this, would my IVA expect the money to go to them? And would it automatically be paid to them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When was your borrowing from WDA?
Darren says
It was prior to my IVA and once whilst in it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it depends on the terms of your IVA and also which IVA firm you used as some have no interest in reopening completed IVAs. In practice the money May be sent to you.
Darren kelly says
It was grant Thorton which moved over to Apperture
Michelle Peach says
My husband and I were in an IVA 12 years ago. We paid into the IVA for over two years when I was diagnosed with aggressive cancer. The creditors voted to close the IVA as there was no clear prognosis and I wasn’t working. We received a Certificate of Satisfaction and the creditors were paid out although it was a much lesser amount. One of our creditors was the Northern Rock. We have just been notified by a company dealing with PPI enquiries that my husband and I are entitled to a return of premium from Northern Rock. We also claimed from the Halifax some years ago. The Halifax sent the monies direct to us (they were also one of our creditors). Northern Road have said that they are keeping the funds towards our IVA. Can they do this? If we have received a Certificate of Satisfaction 9 years ago stating the IVA was settled who can this be fair. This has nothing to do with the fact that they mis-sold us PPI. Please advise.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is common for a creditor to set off a PPI refund against a debt in an IVA.
Michael says
I’ve just made the final payment and my IVA company is holding my certificate until I sign an agreement for them to investigate all my PPI. The thing is the IVA company has already investigated my PPI claims while I was in the IVA. They took approximately £3500. I didn’t see a penny of course. Now why are they asking to do another investigation?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This argument isn’t going to get you anywhere. They are entitled to refuse to complete your IVA unless you agree. I understand it’s annoying, but the choice is yours.
Rebecca Arthurs says
In 2016.I was adviced seek advice from citizens advice which said i was in no financial state to pay my ctax arrears over £4,500 and my advice centre said my only option was iva so i took there advice was discharged in 2017 and i made a claim 2019 for ppi and was awared over £3000 but the bank that awarded me sent it straight to iva and as I was in debt for ctax £4.500 and nothing due to any banks or estates only small high interest rates businesses e.g. provident all under £9000 !the £3000 does not cover the ctax and is more than all the small businesses e.g. provident so why have they taken this £3000 I was awarded ? The company that got me ppi sent me an email and letter saying great news u v been awarded £3000 then I called them as i never got nothing they called the bank who said it’s sent to iva but I was discharged 2017
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you sure you had an IVA? If you were “discharged” after a year, this sounds more like bankruptcy or a Debt Relief Order?
Tom says
I was in an IVA which finished December 2018 I claimed ppi while in the iva and was awarded £3500 this was paid to the IP and into the iva .
Can I now claim this back from the IP
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. Not unless you can show it should not have gone to the IP.
Sonaton Saha says
Hi,
I have completed my 6 years IVA on march 2018 and my certificate was issued on october 2018 from aperture. I have started my iva with DFD but later on they moved it to aperture. on my certificate following wording was written-
“Dividends
Creditors whose claims were outstanding or unsupported after the final claiming deadline, were excluded in full or part from
the dividend distribution; however, they remain bound by the terms and conditions of the completed Arrangement(s). All
dividends have been equalised where funds permitted.
VAT and PPI
The supervisor continues to deal with the PPI and VAT issues in accordance with the resolutions proposed and approved by
your creditors at the meeting of creditors.”
during my IVA DFD claimed PPI. last week i have received one letter from first dispute management saying they have been instructed by my aperture supervisor to investigate various mis-selling claims which may exist within my IVA and today received email from aperture whether i have received the letter or not. if i change address, they want to know my new address where they can resend that form.
Can i ignore them? if i do can they reopen my iva? i have not received any ppi money from lenders personally, even i am not bothered. I really don’t want this hassle anymore. I am more than happy to complete my IVA.
I would be really grateful to have your advice regarding this matter.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Can i ignore them? if i do can they reopen my iva?” It isn’t really clear what will happen if you try this. But to be honest it could be more hassle than just letting them get on with seeing if they can reclaim stuff. If you are asked about mis-selling and you don’t remember much, just say this.
Vikipollard says
Aren’t we entitled to receive the 8% statutory interest part of any refund? I’m sure when I was forced to sign the forms (2013), in order to get the completion certificate from my IVA which ended in 2012 (Grant Thornton), the carrot was that I would receive the 8% stat interest. Needless to say, I’ve not received anything.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It isn’t a general rule, no. but if you were offered that, send Aperture (GT changed their name) a complaint and ask why you haven’t been paid it.
MG says
I have had a ppi claim upheld by NRAM but they will not pay out the redress as I have been in an IVA.
I have a completion certificate for The IVA which finished 5 years ago.
They have stated whilst the claim has been upheld I have no legal claim to the redress. But if the trustees contact them they will forward any monies owed to them.
Is this correct as the IVA is complete. And as far as I am aware the insolvancy practitioner no longer exists
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Which IVA firm was it?
MARGARET GARDNER says
Hi, My IVA was completed in December 2016 and I recieved a small cheque for fund not collected by the creditors. I applied for PPI and two of the creditors have paid the money to the IVA company. Thing is I was with Debt Free Direct and they were taken over by Aperture who haven’t responded to my emails. Can I get this money back?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can put in a written complaint to Aperture about their failure to respond to your emails. See https://apertureiva.com/legal/complaints-procedure and put COMPLAINT in the email subject line.
You may not be able to get any of this money back (as the article above suggests) but you are entitled to a reply to your queries and also to a statement showing how much money has been distributed to your creditors. If Aperture cannot produce this because they do not have the details of your IVA, then all the PPI refunds should probably be coming to you.
Margaret Gardner says
Hi Sara
Thank you so much for your advice which I followed and aperture have agreed that they have no interest and are happy to help me recover the PPI claims
Sara (Debt Camel) says
excellent!
Sue says
My IVA failed in 2012, and I have a letter confirming they want nothing more to do with the IVA. I’ve since repaid all of my debts. I’ve today found out that a joint loan which was repaid in 2008 may have PPI. Will this go to Aperture if I claim?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If all your creditors in the IVA have been repaid, I don’t think it should.
Put the PPI claim in (don’t use a claims firm!) and at the same time write to Aperture with the details of your IVA and your repaid debts and ask them to confirm that they have no interest in any refunds you pay get.
Sue says
Thank you.
They’ve already had over £6,000 of PPI from me, although only £1900 went to the creditors and they claimed the rest as their “fees” which I though was wrong (they held onto the money for 4 years before giving any to the creditors). When I queried this, they said they were still owed approximately £2,000 in fees for their work over 8 months! I’ve made direct payments to my creditors and now only have 3 left (smallish amounts) which if I receive this other PPI I will be clearing in full.
I will write to them and ask them to respond within 1 month, otherwise I will assume they no longer have any interest as per their letter, and will keep any PPI monies.
j. jones says
The joint IVA I had with my husband completed in 2013. Sadly, my husband passed away in 2017. Today I had a letter addressed to us both from Aperture to sign a letter of Authority and for them to search for PPI with a questionnaire. I have been through a terrible time and had so much to cope and deal with ….find this very upsetting. Am I within my rights to just ignore this, please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A lot of people are cross at getting these letters but they must be especially distressing for you. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/gt-ppi-letters-after-iva/, sorry I can’t say what will happen if you ignore them.
J. Jones says
Thank you. It has been so upsetting and bought back a lot of sad and distressing thoughts, they previously found PPI years ago now, and paid it to the IVA. I am trying to continue with my life and it is very difficult, even without being troubled by this.
Matthew Grimsley says
I had one and ignored it. They took the majority of my PPI money so why should I give them permission to get them more money to keep !
Tony Dryer says
My IVA was completed successfully in 2011 and I received a completion certificate very soon after that. My insolvency practitioner was Debt Free Direct (DFD). I received a PPI refund in 2015 and Lloyd’s bank tried to send the money to DFD, I kicked up a real fuss and DFD agreed to send the refund to me instead (result), they then sent me a letter stating that the trust was now closed and that any further refunds should be sent directly to me. DFD have been taken over by Aperture now and I’ve received another £3000 refund which apparently is going to be sent to my IP. I have a copy of the letter stating that the refund should come to me so my question is Should Aperture honour that as my file will show the trust closed or will they try to cling onto the money?. I will go to the ombudsman if I have to.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you have a letter from DFD saying that the trust is closed in your case, I suggest you send that to Aperture and ask them for confirmation that the PPI refund will come to you. If they refuse, put in a formal written complaint to them and if that is rejected take it to the next stage by putting in a complaint to the Insolvency Service gateway.
Tony Dryer says
Just received this email from Aperture.
Dear Mr Dryer,
We write in response to your recent enquiries regarding the handling of PPI mis-selling compensation funds and the status of your case
Upon completing a full review of this matter, I can confirm that we have no interest in any recoveries or assets arising from financial (PPI) mis-selling claims.
The trust created by the IVA at the commencement has been brought to an end and there will be no further reports from this office in relation to this case.
We will not accept any payments from lenders in terms of PPI compensation awards and we will advise the lender to pay this to you directly, however occasionally lenders will continue to issue payments to our office and in those circumstances, we will return the funds directly to the lender.
I hope that satisfies your enquiry, however should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to email IVATrust@aperture.uk.com
Tried to contact the co-op bank to explain this email to them but apparently they do not have an email address or phone number I can contact as the appropriate department “doesn’t talk to customers”.
Sent the letter to them by replying to a previous email they’d sent me.
Hopefully the end is in sight now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
excellent.
Sylvie Brooks says
Hello
I received similar letter from Aperture,
We never signed the Deed of agreement aswedid not want this to go on for ever ! Dfd gave us our certificate of completion about three years ago and the IVA closed . While in the IVA were paid Ppi to the creditors .
What can we do to end the trust as we have ever allowed / signed any documents to allowed this to carry on after ? It will never end ?
Also the is a bit about they knows our income tax and think we should act to get mo ru for them to receive?! Are they allowed to ask for a tax rebate ?
What is going on ?
Totally traumatized as I thought all this was over and I am to worried to contact them .
Rick Borman says
The thing is you got caught by the other side of the coin….I signed the deed which agreed to let PPI continue to be collected…. You didn’t sign the agreement which means your iva didn’t end in which case they can continue to collect PPI towards the debt!! This is how I understand it anyway!!! At least you have heard from aperture! I have been trying for over a year to get them to write to me or at least acknowledge my change of address….and now I have moved again so I have totally given up on them!
Philippa says
Hi I took out an iva many years ago with debt free direct. It ended approx 6 years ago. My querie is that debt free direct went into administration and then aperture took them over. So with regards to ppi and any agreements that debt free direct made me sign regarding ppi – ie all funds to go to them. Is it still a legall form as did are no longer a company ? And can aperture still enforce this ?
Thanks 😀
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you signed something before your IVA ended, then Aperture can probably enforce that. But it’s worth asking Aperture for a copy of all the personal infomration they have about you – just to see what they have. See https://apertureiva.com/legal/privacy-policy
Philippa says
Thanks Sara I have emailed them to try and find out after being on the phone all afternoon from pillar to post – everything I had signed was with dfd I have never dealt with aperture – in fact I only found out about dfd going into administration a few days ago! I will let you know how I get on 😀
Mike palner says
Hi, my IVA with Apateure, (GT) completed may 2017 after five years. They did recover some £14k in ppi and 80% of the debt.
I have received statutory letters requesting permission to pursue again the same ppi, which I duly signed.
My question is, at what time do I stop forwarding any payments sent to me by a bank for errors in account handling and in the latest instance, (non informative communication about my account) do I still need to send this on after two years since my completion?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to ask Aperture.
Janet Beasley says
Hi
I finished my Iva with DFD just over 4 years ago , so it has now been taken over by Aperture , I recently claimed ppi from a couple of credit cards . Is it likely that Aperture will chase any payments that were paid to me direct , I didn’t realise that the Iva could last up to 6 years after the completion.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Actually there isn’t a 6 year time limit :(
But the question here is whether Aperture have the details of your IVA. If they haven’t… You could send Aperture a Subject Access request asking for a copy of all the personal information they have on you and see what comes back. See https://apertureiva.com/legal/privacy-policy
Rick Borman says
Good luck getting any response at all from aperture! I am guessing that a turning point will be 28th August this year, after which time no new PPI claims can be started. I get the feeling that this will be the time that Aperture and other companies will have to start sorting people out finally!
W Fisher says
Hi I entered an Iva in 2008 was in it for 5 years and they did my PPI search and were paid out . I was with Varden Nuttall who then went into administration in 2016 it took me to 2018 to get my completion certificate, I’ve just claimed PPI on a card I had prior to my Iva and they have sent the money to Varden is this right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you need to ask the administrators if this is correct – it may be.
L Morris says
Hi, I have been approached by First Dispute Management. Thought it was a con at first so I spoke to Aperture and they are working with them. I’m not fussed about the claims going back to the creditors as to be honest without my IVA going ahead I would have lost my house after a messy break up. They are not charging me a penny to do this and if they win on any of my claims (not sure if they will be as they’ve been looked at before) I get to keep the stat interest. My mum did this a while ago and she got 10k on a PPI claim and the stat interest/commission was 3.2K!! Oh and they are looking into my mortgage too as apparently thats something else they can help me with.??? Just about getting my life back in order so any unexpected funds coming my way can only be a good thing. If you don’t try you you’ll never know. *finger crossed*
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FDMs fees are very high and will be taken off the statutory interest. Also Aperture has been offering the statutory interest back for years and almost none seems to have been paid much. Don’t get up your hopes.
Debbie Coles says
Hi had my IVA in 2004 it’s completed. I don’t have any paperwork for my IVA. The company I used no longer trade. I have asked where I can get my completion letter from and they said they don’t have it. I am claiming PPI and one company want a certificate is this allowed as my IVA was completed 2009. Please help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“I have asked where I can get my completion letter from and they said they don’t have it.” who did you ask?
Debbie Coles says
The company I took the IVA out with. They have sold there company to someone else.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask them to say in writing that they no longer have any records of your IVA and are not interested in any PPI payments you may receive. then you can send that to the lender.
Michelle says
My Iva finished in 2014 I had my completion letter but my ppi was not mentioned on my paperwork at all. My friend is in an IVA and all they talk about is PPI going back to them, I have won my award for ppi from Barclays Bank which they have sent to Leonard Curtis as it should on record we had an IVA I have spoken to LC who obviously want to get
The money to them as they would receive more than my credits due to their hefty fees, I have been told by LC once the cheques are sent to contact the creditors and ask them to send the money to me if it’s closed and see if they agree, has anyone had this suggested to them and done it
Mike says
My IVA finished August 2014, the IVA company was Grant Thornton.
I received a Completion Certificate and a Notice of completion of stating that:
“I issued a certificate of due completion stating that there
is nothing more to be done under the arrangements. You are therefore released from all unsecured
debts included within the arrangements”
During my IVA I have signed forms for GT to persue any PPI claims, now I’ve recieved a letter from aperture to say they wish to persue PPI from the same financial organisations! They already have authority to claim so why are we having to resign the same paperwork?
Needless to day, I’ve received no PPI claims.
I think these letters have been sent out on block without going through the individuals IVA case.
Mike says
Having now delved a bit more in my IVA documentation and emails from Grant Thornton, I’ve found reference to a “formal variation to the Terms and Conditions of all IVAs under our supervision”, dated May 2014.
Does anyone remenber this? Did anyone agree to it?
The message goes on…
“The variation will allow us to close the IVAs and deal with PPI separately and after having closed the IVA”.
In my case I did not agree to it as I didn’t want this dragging on after my IVA was closed, which was August 2014.
Since I did not agree to this variation and my closure certificate has been issued, I therefore believe that GT have no right to persue any other PPI claims which is why they are asking people to sign these new papers to give then the authority to try and claim again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So people who have agreed to a variation, or have given an IVA firm the right to collect PPI after closure in order to get their closure certificate are in a weaker position to refuse to co-operate now. But people such as yourself whose IVA has been closed without either of these things happening are still potentially affected because of the Green v Wright decision.
Daniel says
Hello my wife and I had anIVA with Grant Thornton completed in2006 the Creditors received 0.20p per pound following the sale of our house. Recently received a PPI payment from one of the credit cards and today have received a letter from Aperture saying they are instructing solicitors and for me to sign some paperwork re any refund. Do J have to sign this are theInsolvency Practitioners really entitled to even more money after all this time?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/gt-ppi-letters-after-iva/comment-page-2/#comment-299948 for your options.
CJS says
Part 1 of 2:
Hi, I completed an IVA back in 2013 after 5 years of perfect payment. Received completion documentation and certificate.
The original company I was with, W3, has ceased trading and 6 years on. But oddly in the last year I find my old file has resurfaced and a Begbies Traynor have contacted.
I have recently been offered a PPI refund from a bank. They state on their ‘offer letter that their records can confirm I was previously in an IVA. However, notice that I am no longer on the Official IVA Register.’
Before they issue payment, they need me to send details of the Insolvency Practitioner and the IVA discharge notice. (I of course have a completion certificate etc.) Presume to decide where money should go, BUT W3 no longer even exist and the certificate they request doesn’t state anything about sending funds to IVA Practitioners.
But my confusion lies with Begbies Traynor. Can they now potentially take this money? (somehow)
***
CJS says
Part 2 of 2:
*** When Begbies contacted me a few months back randomly, they sent a letter saying I was entitled to a small amount in un-claimned funds. They then sent the same certificate etc, But there was now a letter attached… At the foot of the letter I now find the following statement:
“The arrangement has completed subject to PPI mis-selling investigations. The debtor has provided consent to co-operate with the agent instructed to investigate the position. If there is a recovery then the funds will be distributed to creditors in accordance with the surviving trust clause. The Debtor has been provided with a certificate of completion.”
How/Why does this suddenly appear 6 years later?
So to elude… I’m a little confused here:
– Seeing as everything was entered and completed with W3, how do Begbies even have a right to interfere after so many years? And since the IVA has completely been removed from any register and was over 6 years ago, they can now try and claim or take over anything?
– Should I simply just send the certificate that doesn’t have this statement on?
– If the bank pays the PPI money to me, do I have to declare in anyway to anyone? (Or can I go on my merry way).
– Reading some other comments above, how long will all this connection now stay with me for? I was under the impression after 5 years at the most, then it’s as if it never existed?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the article above explains about a court case after your IVA had completed that can affect some IVA (?most) that have already completed.
You can reply to BT that you never gave consent and ask them to produce proof that you did.
But even if you didn’t, it is possible BT may assert they have the right to claim your PPI refund.
The IP can keep record for as long as they think they may need them.
CJS says
Thank you for responding…
So based on what you mention, effectively this could stay with me forever? So if say for example in the unwritten future, something similar to the likes of PPI claims come into the finance world and as consumers we can benefit, BT could in theory try and take from whatever it is?
In the instance above, If the bank decide to pay me the funds, do I need to even declare anything? Or will it matter in the scheme of things? As in, would BT possibly down the line come after me to pay whatever the bank paid me? (Which would seem absurd).
All seems a bit greedy and fishy that another company can just wander in and start orchestrating on something thats done and dusted and wasn’t even in an agreement with them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“So based on what you mention, effectively this could stay with me forever? So if say for example in the unwritten future, something similar to the likes of PPI claims come into the finance world and as consumers we can benefit, BT could in theory try and take from whatever it is?” yes if the event being refunded occured before your IVA. Obviously as time goes on that gets less likely.
“If the bank decide to pay me the funds, do I need to even declare anything? Or will it matter in the scheme of things? As in, would BT possibly down the line come after me to pay whatever the bank paid me? ” I don’t know what GT would do in practice. A lot may depend on whether you have consented to them taking PPI as their letter says.
Michelle says
Can anyone tell me how long it takes from when the IVA receive the cheques for PPI and them distributing to the creditors, my practioner has told me that once they have paid the creditors I should contact them and see if they will credit me the funds as the debt was closed, I can’t personally see them doing this but I am going to try, but to be honest we all know the reason the practioners want the PPI payments isn’t to pay off the creditors it’s for them to take another huge chunk out of the money, looking back to when I took out my IVA if I wasn’t so naive and looked more into my options I wouldn’t have taken out an Iva
james says
I had an iva completed a couple of years ago ( certificate issued).
Now a firm , introduced by aperture are constantly asking for me to fill in forms to re-claim PPI.
What happens to the money , if any ?
And they are also saying that we are to receive a large amount of interest back.
Have you any thoughts on this matter please.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/gt-ppi-letters-after-iva/. read the comments below. few people seem to have got any of the 8% money back, let alone a large amount of it.
Sally De-Bargeton says
Just had the disappointment of being told that a cheque has been sent to my IVA practitioner as a result of my PPI claim, disappointed because my IVA ended in 2011 and the ppi was for a loan from 1994 to 1997 way before I could have predicted my downfall into debt.
Vicki Blaylock says
I think there should be a government inquiry into this!
Tony Dryer says
Sally,
Don’t let it end there.
They tried that with me but I made such a nuisance of myself they ended up closing my trust and sending all the PPI money to me. Had about £60k back so far.
Find out what information they have about you, did you receive a closure certificate?, did you sign anything else to say they could take any PPI after the IVA finished and ask them to send any terms and conditions for the original IVA.
Stand your ground on this and finally ask which debtors they’ll send the money too.
Allan says
Hi
I’ve also been pestered by FDM but have told them I’m not signing any authorisation. They then say they’ll refer it back to Aperture. Not sure what for.
Just found this in a letter sent to me from Grant Thornton
I write to advise you that on 31 July 2012 I issued a certificate of due completion stating that
there is nothing more to be done under the arrangement. You are therefore released from all
unsecured debts included within the arrangement. I would also advise you that I have
completed my duties as the supervisor of your voluntary arrangement and have ceased to act
on your behalf.
Just feel that the final sentence must mean something – ceased to act on my behalf – seems pretty final .
I’m hoping by the end of the month things will calm down – but I’m determined to challenge any further pressure put on me to sign forms I know are unnecessary.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“just feel that the final sentence must mean something – ceased to act on my behalf – seems pretty final ”
every completion certificate says that. But the Grant v Wright decision means that for many people PPi can still be reclaimed after a completion certificate with that sentence.
I’m not saying Aperture are going to pursue this, I am just saying that the certificate with that sentence isn’t some new extra evidence to support your case.
Allan says
Thanks. But how – in other situation – can a phrase stating cease to act on your behalf mean any thing other than that – 7 years later we are coming back for another piece of the pie. No.
And I don’t understand how they ca agree to do this new work at a cost without reconvening a creditors meeting to get approval for their fees. They did several times during the iVA at additional cost for simpler things than this and some creditors (Amex in particular ) challenged them.
Funny my old IP from Grant Thornton seems to know work out of Monaco. Real bond of trust going on.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Court of Appeal in GvW case found that a trust established in an IVA continued after the issue of a completion certificate unless there was specific language in the completion certificate to bring the trust to an end.
You may think that’s unfair. but that is what the court’s decision was.
Allan says
Still don’t see how they can offer the statutory interest as it’s not theirs to give. Or does the trust situation not cross to the creditors – who I’m sure would have a view on the cost of using a further third party – no doubt on shared commission – that reduces any pay out to them.
Curious as to why they are not being drawn in for decisions on this new work.
I’ll wait with bated breath to see what happens next from Aperture and their agents.
And of course the 29th Aug might see a dramatic change in approach. After all FDM seem to have been set up part year specifically for this purpose.
Rick Borman says
I had pretty much the same letter from DFD….but the PPI was still kept by them! They have you by the short and curlies….if you don’t sign the authority to get PPI, they will simply not complete your iva! My problem has been a total inability to get any sort of response from Aperture….I have changed address twice in the last 3 years and cannot get them to confirm that they have my up to date details!!! I want to know what has happened to the additional payment of £7000 awarded to me by one of the companies after they reviewed the previous PPI payment and judged it insufficient! I accept that I won’t get it …but I do not want aperture hiding it and keeping it either!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send a formal complaint in writing, see https://apertureiva.com/legal/complaints-procedure and send it to the Insolvency Service if Aperture don’t give a satisfactory response in 8 weeks.
Michelle says
So my Iva was finished in 2014 so I would imagine that the creditors closed my accounts once that had completed, so my question is if my accounts are closed and the Iva company send payment for my Ppi refunds this month where does it go 🤷🏽♀️ Does it get returned to the IVA company and then given to someone else or do they keep it or are the creditors accounts not closed once you complete your IVA
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It will be returned to your creditors.
Michelle says
But surely in their eyes of the creditors i paid what I agreed to pay so my end of the bargain was done so I would assume they closed my accounts so if LC sent them the money where would they put it, LC have advised me to contact the creditors and ask for the money back from them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“i paid what I agreed to pay”, no, it is a mistake to think that making 60 IVA payments is your side of the IVA bargain.
Your IVA included terms which transferred assets into your IVA. The right to make a PPI claim was one of those assets.
i haven’t heard of any creditors refunding PPI payments as they can’t think what to do with them.
Michelle says
I understand that is where my PPI payment goes but do creditors keep accounts open 6 years after an IVA has finished that’s what I’m asking but no one seems to understand my question or has no one thought about that
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Money can usually be credited to a closed account that was only partially settled.
Lisa says
Hi Michelle,
I had an IVA that finished completed in 2008. I went to claim PPI after in 2017. I did it myself and went to the creditors. The back and forth between me and one bank went on with correspondence and phone calls for about 6 months. I read up a lot and understood about the court cases ruling that any PPI be paid to the creditor and shared and not the individual. Basically it states that any PPI should get paid to your IVA company and they should distribute it accordingly, your accounts stay open indefinitely and even if a creditor has been dissolved, another company takes it on and so on. If and in my case my IVA company had been dissolved and my account information passed on to different IVA companies, the final company it sat with had no interest in claiming any monies. That is the first thing you need to know, if they have any interest and proof of it. If they do, they will keep the payments and distribute as they see fit. If they don’t have an interest, you can pursue the creditors individually and see if they have any interest, if you were to claim PPI from them. I got lucky with one creditor that with all information, they let me have it and others not so much, they used it to pay off what I would have owed them. Hope this helps. It’s just the way it is after the court cases ruling. If you want to put a lot of time and effort in and possibly no gains, give it a try.
Michelle says
I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well, my Iva company have got my PpI payments over £6000 they are distributing them to the creditors that I owed during my IVA but have told me to go to the creditors and ask for the money because in their eyes I paid back what Was agreed when the IVA was open
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that’s bizarre. who is your IVA firm?
Michelle says
Leonard Curtis, I hadn’t heard of the green case when the ppi was sent to them as we completed in 2014 and to be honest they asked while we were in the IVA to claim ppi so assumed they had done it but after a long phone call the girl told me they would send me a list of creditors they had paid and I could contact them direct to see if they were willing to send the money back to me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can try – I haven’t heard of anyone have any success with that.
Chris says
I completed my bankruptcy in 2006 April as I remember. I did it through an IP and he never even mentioned ppi claims as been an asset. ( possibly because the green case hadn’t ruled then ) I find it harsh that I took debt on in 1996 paid it off in full but I can’t get ppi from it because I went bankrupt on other debt in 2006 when ppi stillwasn’t really heard of yet if I claim today it would go to the official receiver . I think My case was before the green ruling so how do I stand ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Green v Wright case only relates to IVAs, it has nothing to do with bankruptcy.
It has always been the case that if it later emerges that you had an asset at the start of your bankruptcy – and the right to make a PPI Claim is an asset – then it belongs to the OR even if you were unaware of it at the time.
Michelle says
Just to let you know that a company who took over the debt on my credit card when I went into an Iva have spoken to their client who has told them to the return the cheque to Leonard Curtis and the funds have to be returned to me just waiting to see if Leonard Curtis do this or just offset it against another debt
Sara says
I completed an IVA very recently. I’ve received forms for me to sign for the Iva company to search for PPI. Didn’t any new claims for PPI end at the very end of August? Just seems a bit of a wasted effort on both parts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some claims companies are apparently thinking of court action…
Sara says
Oh really? So, it seems PPI will be never ending. I did wonder whether there’d be a loophole regarding PPI and IVA’s.
Anna Elizabeth Collins says
Hi Sara.
I received a ‘NOTICE OF COMPLETION OF VOLUNTARY ARRANGEMENT’ on 27th February 2015 from Antoinette Thorpe stating ‘I now cease to act as the Supervisor’ and officially signed by her!
I have had a very lengthy letter from ‘Aperture’ stating they are now in the process or have already taken £23,000 plus out of my IVA trust with no confirmation give to do so! I have not signed anything to them to proceed with process are they allowed with no consent from myself? Also; state about ‘TAX REFUND’ and that they will contact me to help gaining Tax refund very strange indeed! How can they take funds out without my consent when I had a ‘Completion Certificate’ years back….
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this is probably a PPI reclaim. Your IVA firm was originally Debt Free Direct I assume? Did you ever sign anything to authorise DFD to collect PPI? Did you sign the Deed of Arrangement in c.2014 that DFD asked you to sign?
Anna Elizabeth Collins says
H Sara,
Yes I did on both counts to DFD, but not to Aperture!? So are you stating Sara that Aperture have the right to take on my PPI claims even though I have not officially signed anything directly to Aperture? What I am seriously confused about is I paid £21,000 back plus a Full & Final payment settlement of £2,000 to end the IVA which DFD agreed too! I have received a statement from ‘Aperture’ that they received on 13/07/2015 to 28/08/2019 of the amount of an Extra £23,334, but it still states on my statements ‘Aperture’ have Distributed Post Closure £19, 487! These payments do not reflect on my balance statement I have once calculated paid £44,980 in total! So what on earth is going on I really think I was advised so terribly to go on a IVA! Sara do you think I should get my Solicitor involved at this stage? Kindest regards Anna
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large were the debts that went into your IVA?