Many people with a gambling problem have been given unaffordable credit. This fueled their gambling and they got deeper into debt.
Credit is affordable if you can repay it and still pay your other debts, bills and expenses. If it is unaffordable, then you can ask for a refund of interest and charges and take a complaint the lender declines to the Financial Ombudsman (FOS).
But gambling complicates this – perhaps that loan or credit card would have been affordable if only you could stop gambling? Many people who have made an affordability complaint are worried that their complaint will be rejected because of their gambling.
This article looks at some FOS decisions that have involved gambling and affordability complaints.
FOS takes the view that a lender should not have given the credit if they knew – or should have known – that the borrower had a gambling habit.
It doesn’t matter who the lender is. As you can see from the cases below, it’s not just payday lenders, it can be major high street banks.
It is the general approach to gambling that matters here, and FOS’s approach is broadly the same across all lenders and different types of credit.
Contents
What does FOS look at when making a decision?
A lender can’t argue that the borrower should have said they had a gambling problem
Case 1: The fact the customer had not told the lender he had a gambling problem isn’t relevant:
if it had looked at Mr H’s bank statements, it would’ve quickly realised Mr H was gambling and that Mr H couldn’t afford to repay. I don’t think Mr H’s failure to tell Mr Lender about the gambling means he shouldn’t receive compensation as Mr Lender didn’t carry out proportionate checks.
Gambling isn’t discretionary expenditure
Case 2: Payday UK argued that the adjudicator shouldn’t have considered gambling transactions as part of Mr C’s expenditure when looking at affordability as they weren’t essential expenditure.
The Ombudsman didn’t agree:
Mr C’s bank statements show he was regularly spending quite a lot of his income on gambling by this point. So if Payday UK (having a full understanding of his circumstances) was thinking about what Mr C would have available the following month, based on his previous spending patterns I think it’s likely he would’ve continued to spend similar amounts on gambling.
I don’t think it’s fair to say Mr C’s spending on gambling was discretionary at this point.
Gambling showing on bank or credit card statements
Case 3: SafetyNet Credit had access to the borrower’s bank accounts. In this case, the borrower was on a good income:
Mr M was working and typically received an income in the region of £3,000 each month. Some months he also received a bonus in addition to his regular salary. This income is not however significant when comparing it to Mr M’s expenditure.
[SafetyNet Credit] had more than enough information to accurately consider Mr M’s financial position… it should have been obvious that Mr M was living beyond his means, which was likely to have been caused by his compulsion to gamble.
I think that the lending from SafetyNetCredit, and other parties, was used to fund his gambling or other existing commitments, which he couldn’t afford because he’d already spent money on gambling. It seems as though he was caught in a significant cycle of lending and gambling.
Case 4: Vanquis increase a borrower’s credit card limit despite significant amounts of gambling transactions on the credit card. The Ombudsman decided:
I’m not convinced that it can be fairly or reasonably said that any of the subsequent credit limit increases can be considered as being affordable or suitable for Mrs B at the times that they were implemented. And I say this because of the usage of Mrs B’s Vanquis credit account, which demonstrated a high number of gambling transactions which I feel should have given Vanquis cause for concern, as well as the deteriorating wider financial position of Mrs B, as demonstrated by her credit file…
Vanquis explained to this service that they wouldn’t discriminate against an account holder on the basis of how they use their account. But I’m not convinced that this argument can be considered reasonable when an account holders’ transactions highlight a potential gambling addiction.
Lenders should check all accounts a customer has
Case 5: RBS increased a borrower’s overdraft limit significantly and gave him a large loan despite gambling showing on his bank statements. The decision:
A cursory look at Mr B’s statements showed that he’d been gambling significant sums in the lead up to the overdraft increase… Mr B had gambled in excess of his declared monthly income and this had taken him close to and marginally over his existing credit limit in the month proceeding the increase.
In these circumstances, I thought that it ought to have been apparent that there was a significant risk Mr B might have struggled to sustainably repay what he already owed. And he was therefore unlikely to have been able to repay any additional credit without undue difficulty or borrowing further.
Bearing this in mind, I was minded to find that RBS shouldn’t have increased Mr B’s overdraft limit April 2019 and also suspended the use of his facility. And considering the monthly loan payments of just under £800 also took up just under half his monthly income, I found that RBS shouldn’t have provided Mr B with a loan in April 2019 either.
Case 6: Nationwide gave a customer a credit card with a large limit, £6,500, despite gambling showing on bank statements:
When conducting my own review of the performance of Ms B’s Nationwide current account – as Nationwide described that they would themselves have done – it’s of immediate and obvious concern that Ms B was consistently overdrawn throughout this period, often by significant amounts and close to the overdraft limit.
Nationwide explained to this service that they wouldn’t decline a customer’s credit application solely on the basis that the customer maintained a consistently overdrawn balance with them. I can understand Nationwide’s point here, to a degree, but it would be expected that the consistently overdrawn performance of Ms B’s current account would have been of concern here and should have prompted a more detailed check.
And, had Nationwide checked the statement transactions for Ms B’s current account for the months immediately prior to the credit account application, it would have been seen that these included a large number of gambling transactions. Because of this, I find it difficult not to conclude that Nationwide would, or should, have arrived at a different decision with regard their approval of Ms B’s application for credit, had they undertaken a more thorough check.
When lending continues, lenders should look for warning signs
Case 7: Lending Stream had given a series of loans to the customer over several years. It argued that:
it was for Mr P to provide accurate information about his income and outgoings. It said it wasn’t required to make further checks if the loans looked affordable.
The Ombudsman agreed that Lending Stream did enough checks on the first loan and was entitled to rely, at that point, on the customer’s information about his outgoings. But:
… Lending Stream’s check showed that Mr P was heavily and increasingly in debt to a range of lenders. The amount of his debt had increased greatly by the time of his second loan…
… He had credit card and short term loan debts. He was reliant on increasing short term loans to fund his gambling habit and his living expenses. I think if Lending Stream had made further checks it would have seen, as I have, that Mr P was dependent on short term loans. And so it would have decided that giving him further loans would be irresponsible.
Check what the customer tells you
Case 8: Everyday Loans spotted a lot of gambling on the one bank statement it asked the customer for – he explained that he didn’t have a gambling problem and had closed his account. But the Ombudsman decided:
Mr C’s gambling expenditure was significant. In the month before he applied for the loan he had spent an amount in excess of his normal income.
Mr C’s earlier bank statements show clear evidence that he was in fact regularly spending large amounts on online gambling transactions. It is clear from those statements that the spending wasn’t, as Mr C had suggested, simply related to the summer football tournament. His statements appear to show that he was in fact suffering from an addiction to gambling, and he was funding that expenditure by borrowing from a range of other lenders. I don’t think, had it seen that additional evidence, that [Everyday Loans]would have agreed to give this loan to Mr C.
Case 9: George Banco gave a guarantor loan to consolidate payday loan credit without considering the borrower’s full circumstances:
George Banco hasn’t provided any evidence to show how it understood which [payday loans] would be repaid and at what cost. I can’t see that it could make a fair lending decision without knowing this. In addition, Mr S was spending a significant proportion of his income on what seem to be gambling transactions in the months prior to this loan. So from this, combined with his reliance on payday loans, I think the lender ought to have realised Mr S was having problems managing his money and there was a high risk he would be unable to sustainably repay this loan.
Hard to win complaints
Not every complaint involving gambling is upheld.
Cases where the loans are small and someone only borrowed a few times are always difficult to win regardless of the gambling element. The lender often just didn’t know enough to see that the borrower could be in trouble and the amount of credit was so small detailed checks did not need to be made.
Case 10: A Myjar case involving five loans. Here the lender had offered to remove the interest from the last loan and accept a repayment plan but the customer felt that was insufficient. The Ombudsman agreed that only refunding the last loan was reasonable as the loans were small so the checks made were proportionate.
It is also hard to win cases where gambling has only recently become a problem. If you have a good credit record and are well paid, there may be no warning flags that suggest a lender should look in detail at your application.
The “standard” compensation
FOS awards in the vast majority of cases
The standard compensation if an affordability complaint is upheld is for interest to be refunded. If a balance is still owing, the interest refund first reduces the balance and any remaining amount is refunded in cash.
The effect is that people have to repay the amount they borrowed but not any additional interest or charges added.
FOS says about credit records:
We’d typically expect a lender to remove any adverse information on a loan, from the borrower’s credit file, where a complaint is upheld for irresponsible lending.
The refunds and credit records also include taking account of payments made to a debt collector if the debt had been sold, and removing (the legal term is set aside) any CCJ.
It is very unusual not to have to repay what was borrowed
This only tends to happen when the lender was specifically aware that the borrower had a major gambling problem – not by working it out from bank statements but because of previous interactions with the customer where gambling had been discussed.
Case 10: Lloyds gave a customer who had asked for a gambling block on her account two large loans within 6 months, both were said to be for the pur[pose of buying a car. The first loan had been repaid soon after it was given. The Ombudsman found that Lloyds had made reasonable checks for the first loan, but not for the second much larger loan:
The entire amount of the funds advanced for loan 1 were transferred to a betting company, which transactions to were supposed to be blocked, the day after the funds were provided. Lloyds said the use of a third-party service to make the transfers meant that any gambling block would have been negated. Although I wasn’t entirely persuaded by this argument given the payments were made using a well-known third-party payment service to a highly recognisable high-street betting company, which Miss D had been told transactions to had been blocked, clearly appeared within the transactions…
Lloyds chose to lend [the second loan] in these circumstances despite the reasonably foreseeable prospect of
the funds dissipating as a result of being gambled away and being no longer available to repay any debt as a result…
I don’t think removing the interest fees and charges goes far enough. The circumstances of this case and in particular the financial hardship which is likely to be caused by requiring Miss D to pay funds she doesn’t have and is unlikely to get, lead me to think that the fair and reasonable thing for Lloyds to do here, given all the circumstances, is write off the outstanding balance on loan 2…
it seems to me removing adverse information from Miss D’s credit file, increasing the chances of her being able to borrow further would be counterproductive and arguably not in her best interests, or those of any potential lender. So I think it’s fair and reasonable for Lloyds to reflect what I’m asking it to do in relation to the outstanding balance on the loan and record it wrote off a balance on this loan on Miss D’s credit file.
How to complain – tell your story
There isn’t a special template for gambling related complaints. Instead, use the template letters for affordability complaints that is right for the sort of credit you are complaining about, see links to the refund templates.
If a lender rejects your complaint, you can send it to the Ombudsman. You can’t go direct to FOS.
If one of these cases above sounds a lot like your situation, this doesn’t mean you will get the same result. But as you can see from these cases, FOS doesn’t start from the position that it is your fault you were gambling.
When you are sending a case to FOS, be completely open about your gambling problem and the way it interacted with your borrowing from this particular lender. Just tell your story.
And do send your bank statements and a copy of your current credit report – they are the evidence that supports your complaint!
But if you are still gambling…
You can make an affordability complaint if you still have a balance owing to the lender (or debt collector if it has been sold).
But making these complaints if you still have a gambling problem is pretty pointless. If you get any money back you will probably soon be donating it to the bookies and their shareholders…
I know it’s hard, but you need to stop gambling first. Then when you have been “clean” for a while, these complaints can help rebuild your finances.
So read How to escape from the bad credit trap on how a debt management plan can help and How gambling wrecks your finances which looks at the different ways to get help.
Refunds from large loans & car finance
Refunds from cards and catalogues
Can you get an overdraft refund?
M says
Thank you!
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara… just quick question pls… l make complaint about My interest on my NatWest overdraft… … in July 21 … because l have agreement 2013 that l will not pay any interest on my overdraft. And last year natwest write to me that make an error for not changing me anything for years and they will be charging me from now from overdraft of £3000… and they compensate me £100 for their mistake . Can l still take it to FOS now is over 6month now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I be clear, you made a complaint about overdraft charges which Natwest rejected when they weren’t actually charging you anything?
Ernestkola says
Yes…because l have agreement with them in 2013 when l lost my job ..l was not charging from 2013 till 2021… but they admit the error… … over 6month now ..l make a complaint but they reject it…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is your current situation? Are you in work? what other debts do you currently have?
Ernestkola says
Am working at the moment.. but l already have arrangement for order of my debt by paying them back every month some are default
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then you need to go back to NatWest and explain this and ask them not to start charging you. It maty be simpler to move banks and then put all your debts including the NatWest overdraft into a debt management plan.
Ernestkola says
But is over 6month now…l dont think l can still go back to them or FOS. 4 complain…. what is the best pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
But now you are not making a complaint at all – you are just explaining your situation and asking them not to charge you interest because of this. You will need to talk through your current income and expenses.
this has nothing to do with them saying they wouldn’t charge you interest in 2013 – it isn’t a complaint.
Ernestkola says
Ok thanks…. l talk to them about it already and they said l have to default if they have to set arrangement with me … l dont want to default ..l have about 4 account already on default
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then 1 more isn’t going to make any difference, is it? It is normal for your credit score to be harmed if interest is frozen – I don’t see you have an alternative, have you?
Ernestkola says
No any alternative
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then just forget about the defaults. How much do your total debts add up to including this overdraft?
Ernestkola says
About £15k .. with credit cards and overdrafts
I have mortgage for 16yrs but l never missed any payments before… am try to get my self together with my credit score because l want to do remortgage next year
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and how much a month are you paying to these debts?
if you have 4 recent defaults you won’t be able to remortgage with a different lender at an OK rate.
Ernestkola says
How about if l paid all my default in full still not be able to remortgage next year? Am waiting for a injury payout soon… l want to remortgage and buy new houses aswell.. what is the best plan for that pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well wait until you get the payout and then see. But yes, you normally have to have settled defaulted debts at least a year before getting a new mortgage.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara … how are doing well? Pls just quick question l just received email from FOS now .. l made unaffordable complaint to my capitalone credit and Ocean credit card both credit owed by the same company…l open capitalone in 2016 with credit £200 and then increased about 3 times to £1550 . And the ocean credit card open in 2018 with credit limit of £1250 no increment on the ocean credit card. I make complaint to them in December but they reject it and then send it to fos straight away. I got reply from fos today asking m3 this question.From what I’ve seen, it appears that you opened your first account with Capital One on 5 January 2016. Please can you tell me when you first became reasonably aware that the credit card was unaffordable and if there were any extreme circumstances that prevented you from bringing your complaint sooner.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply saying when and how you first heard about affordability complaints that credit cards had raised their limit too high, and that was wiithin the last 3 years, so you believe you meet the “within three years of becoming aware you had a cause to complain” rule.
Also point out that some of Capital One’s credit limit increases were within the last 6 years of you complaining.
Ernestkola says
I open the capitalone credit in 2016 and Ocean 2018 … what year you think is better to tell them that heard about the affordability complaints pls?? And credit cards raised limit too high withing 3yrs ?They will call me tomorrow
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Ocean card is clearly within the 6 year point, that won’t be a problem.
Just tell the truth about when and how you found out about these complaints. Most of the Cap One credit limit increases must be within 6 years anyway.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara .. am sorry to disturb you.. just quick question l just received l call from fos now… the ask me what day in last 3yrs was ar where that the credit card is not affordable for me and what make me or the reason that make me ar where the credit is affordable for me
And the reason l did not bring the case early to fos
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just tell them how and when you found out about these complaints. Say you knew before the credit was causing you problems but didn’t realise that the lender should have checked the higher limits were affordable, so you did not know you had a cause to complain before finding out about these complaints.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara .. just received from fos to explain.You previously explained that you became aware in January 2019 because your credit was causing you causing you problems, please can you specifically explain what what these problems were. I don’t know what to say pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know – what happened in January? Did something specific happen with your personal finances that made you look around for options and find out about affordability complaints? Like maxing out a credit limit or being declined for a loan or your new years resolution to improve things or… there arent any wrong answers here, just say what happened to you.
Ernestkola says
Just because I told them that l notice affordability in 2019 because my credit is causing me problems.. they want to know the problems that my credit is causing me. Do do so sorry to disturb you
Trickyd1983 says
I replied to the same question – I said I became aware just before I complained, as was looking online in despair from being in so much debt. This answer was satisfactory 🙂
Ernestkola says
Thanks so much Sara… both credit cards is default now.. l only aware last yr about affordability complaint that the credit raised too high.. just have arrangement with them now pay monthly
Matt S says
I know this is off topic a little, but would there ever be a case for putting in a complaint to an online bookmaker for (i’m not sure of the right term) but something like ireesponsibility, lack of care… something like that?
Only reason i ask is that i along with many built up large debts due to a gambling addicition. With one online bookmaker i just made small deposits of £5-£10 regularly but for 5-6 years in a row i was losing about £2000-£3000 a year to them (i wasn’t a good gambler)
I know this is a completely different scenario to lending but surely there must be a level of responsibilty for them to ensure their customers can afford to lose the amounts that they are? I understand they have responsible gambling measures but these put everything solely on the customer. At some point they must realise that some particular customers continue to lose money day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year? Surely at some point they should be checking to ensure the customer can afford these losses.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but this is not an area I have any knowledge of. I am a debt adviser, so I know the rules around giving credit.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara .. pls l need your advice on overdraft of £4500 … starting limit from £3400 April 2009 and £4000 may and £4500 in July 2009
And then l took a loan of £10.000.00 in July 2009 .
Total £ 14.500.000.00 buy have £12.000.00 from the money left £2500 which am still paying at the moment .. any grand of me making any complaint pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
see https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/ for overdraft complaints. I can’t guess if you have a good complaint or not, but if you feel it was unaffordable then mak it.
Jack says
Morning. Just a quick question unfortunately I am a gambler and took out a loan with Monzo bank. I sctually banked with Monzo so there saw my day to day spending and in a 2 and a half year period it was way over my income. Some months 8000 pound and days a thousand pound a day. Terrible I know. My credit score was also 399 out of 1000 and each month I was paying more out than I was coming in. I also took out a overdraft with them 3 days prior to my loan. Do you think as a company there system to pick up such a large volume of transactions. I was also emailed about the loan 3 times in 2 weeks offering me this saying I was pre approved. No income or expenditure just my banking habits was used. I know I have to pay the loan and my responbilty just seems crazy to me that they would offer loans when there is a history of 70000 pounds worth of transactions. Also a big defecit
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large was the overdraft?
Jack says
The overdraft was 1 thousand pound all be it I didn’t go into it. My wages went in to Monzo and my spending to a betting company was 75 thousand pound with 65 thousand of that being since March 2020. My income each month was 1560.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok if you didn’t use it, then this is just a reason why they should also have thought twice about the loan.
this is the article with a template for making a complaint about a loan: https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. If they reject it, send it to the Ombudsman and enclose copies of your bank statements for the 3 months before the loan was given.
Have you stopped gambling now? Because if you haven’t, this is all pretty pointless. Any money back you will just lose. better to sort out the gambling first then after 6 months clean, have a go at rebuilding your finaces.
Trickyd1983 says
You will get all your intrest and charges back and possibly some of the capital. Complain to you bank about unaffordable/irresponsible lending and the grounds of you being a degenerate gambler and had they have some checks they should have known this. Just list the accounts that are relevant, along with any and all statements. Job done. They probably say no, you send same complaint to ombudsman, easy case.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara.. can you make unaffordable against car finance pls ? Have paid them off.. but take another one now still paying it at the moment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/unaffordable-car-finance/
Ernestkola says
Do you have any templates pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read the article again…. It links to one with a template.
Ernestkola says
Thanks ..so much ..l find the template in the article now is the same template for large loan .. do you think l have good grand for this complaint pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You are the one that knows if the repayments were affordable. Me making a guess isn’t going to make any difference. I am sorry but you have left 70 comments on different pages. You know what an affordability complaint is. Just read the articles in detail, have a think and make a complaint.
Ernestkola says
Good evening sara… hope is ok to include payday loans and gambling transaction in my account for car finance unaffordable complaint pls? Because did not ask me for my bank statement only payslips.. they ask for when l took the loans and also can make complaint from 2015 till date pls? I have a lot of gambling transaction and payday loans on my bank statement
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes show them the bank statements.
3 months before and three months afterwards is good. You dont have to print them if you can download them from your back – just send the pdf by email.
Emma says
I made a complaint to Aqua about them giving me a second credit card 5 weeks after defaulting on one with them. They upheld my complaint and refunded interest and charges but they’ve declined to remove the default from my credit card.
I’ve asked them to reconsider but will send to FOS if needs be
Am I likely to win this case with FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would hope so.
Simon says
Hi Sara,
Up until December I had a serious gambling problem (I am 98 days without a bet now). In October I took out a logbook loan secured against my car for £2500. My bank statements show my salary going in (around £3000 per month) and about £6000 going out to another account in my name which I used to gamble. Should the lender have asked further questions on the large outgoings to another account in my name before providing the loan? They did the econsent check where they can see 3 months worth of transactions, so they would have seen this.
Just want to know if it’s worth raising an irresponsible lending claim.
Thanks
Si
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes I think they should have checked that.
Did you have other high cost loans? Did you have Your credit card or overdraft limits increased too high?
PS 3 months clean – well done!
Simon Walters says
I was using other payday lenders and also had 2 credit cards at their limits although they were not increased. Luckily I didn’t have overdraft on this account.
Thanks – it’s been a bit of a rough ride but hoping I can get the interest of this loan written off and start rebuilding my finances :)
Si
Simon says
Hi Sara, I had a response to my complaint today to say they are not upholding it because I didn’t declare the gambling as an issue and my pay was enough to cover the payments. They have offered me £50 as a goodwill gesture which I have declined. The complaint I made was not about affordability rather than irresponsibility on their part, I am in a fairly well paid job and could afford the repayments but I believe Logbookloans were irresponsible to lend to me given the obvious level of gambling on my account . Do you think I have a case with the FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
But if the bank statements you showed then showed 3000 coming in and 6000 going out, how was the loan affordable?
Ed says
Hi Sara
Where is the template letter i can use for car cash point loans when i used the money on gambling?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
Ernestkola says
Thanks so much 🙏 Sara .. for your help ..l have every bank statement sent to them by PDL … l have took 3 different car finance with the same company.. starting from 2015 paid it off and then get another car in 2018 paid it off and got another one in 2020 still paying it at the moment.. during 2018 that l hit the car l was paid 17k injury money in to my account . .. hope that money will not be a problem pls? And also l if have grand to make complaint from 2015 pls? I was struggling to pay the money that time and have to take payday loans to pay for the car… and alot gambling transaction in my account but they did not ask me for my bank statement when l took the loans .only payslips… what do you think about situation pls? My 1st car £5000 deposit from hand and 10.000 Finance and second car £9.000 cash and £8.000 finance and 3rd car £8.500 cash and £10.000 finance. What do you think about this situation pls.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but you have left over 70 c0mments on different pages. You know the definition of affordable, Make a complaint about the car finance if you feel it was unaffordable.
SlowLearner says
Just coming on here to say that eventually Coop accepted my adjudicators’ findings and have said they will settle in line with her recommendations. Fingers crossed that’s the last delay now and I will hear from them within the four weeks. It took them three months to finally accept the adjucicators recommendations but we didn’t have to take it to the Ombudsman so that was a relief.
The whole process for me from initial complaint took just over a year. Stay patient and persistent everyone!
Ryan says
Hi Sara
Few questions
I’ve had a refund offer from Tappily for £750 which is all the interest I paid on a £4000 loan I had with them a few years ago
I was thinking about using this to offer a partial settlement to Tesco whom I have a £1500 credit card balance with that is currently marked as persistent debt (over 2 years of minimum payments)
I have an outstanding complaint with Tesco which has been passed to FOS regarding gambling transactions and irresponsible lending
If I offer a partial settlement now, what would happen with my FOS complaint? Is it better to wait until that is resolved?
Also do you know what percentage of the outstanding balance is a good point to start with when it comes to partial settlements?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Unless you have defaulted on this debt, it is very unlikely that Tesco will accept a settlement offer. Do you have any defaulted debts? It would be better to use the refund to make an offer to settle some of those. Or to pay a chunk off your car finance so you get closer to the point where you can make a complaint about that.
Partial settlements don’t affect your chance of winning a FOS complaint, but they will reduce the amount you get back If Tesco accepted £750 to settle a £1500 debt (which I doubt they would), this would be treated as £750 of the redress you should get.
Steven says
Hi Sara,
I took a Nationwide Credit Card out which was attached to my Nationwide current account, I was given a £5400 limit straight away even though I had a lot of gambling transactions on my current account and I was increasing my current account overdraft pretty much every month from October 2018 – January 2019 (500 – 1000).
I took the Credit card out in January 2019. I have put in an affordability complaint to Nationwide but ever since I opened the complaint on the 22nd March, they’ve sent me numerous letter saying that it’s taking longer than usual to investigate the complaint.
My question is: How long should I wait for a response from them before going to the FOS? Is it still 8 weeks / 56 day?
I’ve repeatedly called them once a week to be told it’s being looked at but had nothing back. The next deadline they’ve set for the investigation to be done is the 25th April.
Is there anything else I should be doing?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it is 8 weeks. there is no point in hassling them about this – they are allowed 8 weeks and you arent going to speed this up.
You should be prepared for this to be rejected – a lot of good complaints are, just send it straight to the Ombudsman if this happens.
If you are struggling with money at the moment, talk to StepChange about a debt management plan – you can’t assume an affordability complaint will get you a quick solution, you need to get yourself into a safe financial place where you can wait for an ombudsman decision.
Steven says
Thank you for the response.
It’s already defaulted and is with a debt collection agency, they’re collecting the debt on behalf of Nationwide. I’m just paying them a very small amount at the moment.
I know there is another for this but, I also have outstanding complaints with Everyday Loans, Safety Net and 118 Money.
They have until next week 29th before the 8 weeks is up, do I send the complaint to FOS on that day, or do I need to wait till the 30th to escalate my affordability complaints?
I noticed Safety Net along with the others have reopened my accounts on Clear Score (changed from Closed to Up-to-date) is there any reason for this? Or is this because they’re investing my complaint?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you wait until the 30th.
I have no idea why Safetynet Credit has done this, it doesn’t actually harm your credit score, but if the case has yo go to the ombudsman you can also complain about them doing this.
Dave M says
Hi,
I have had many payday loans leading into the thousands of pounds due to unaffordability and gambling. What is the best way to tackle this? Do I email them the normal complaints templates? Can I still claim back from Sunny?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/ for the template to use. Sunny I am afraid has been liquidated.
May says
I put in a complaint with bamboo loans and I’ve had my final response today and they have not upheld my complaint but have offered £100 . Should I send it to ombudsmun or not bother.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The loan has been repaid I assume?
how much did you borrow? how much did you repay?
when was the loan taken out and what was your financial situation at the time?
May says
I had a 4k loan with them i paid it of a year later with a consolidation loan. My income was 1k a month an the bank statement I sent them on application had all gambling transactions . They said that I had 290 going out for hire purchase etc and they said 300 a month for household bills which left 444 disposable . I was paying 170 to dot dot a month. 300 for bills a month is not right I spend way more than that plus my gambling problem .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so how much did you settle the loan for?
This sounds like a good case, but Bamboo will negotiate sometimes, so I am asking to suggest what you could say to Bamboo, rather than going straight to the ombudsman.
May says
I paid 170 a month for 14 months I think then I paid them 4k to settle. They trying to say cause I’m a home owner with good credit history and always paid on time and had enough money left over is why they didn’t upheld my complaint. But with my gambling problem I had hire purchase for 120 a month vanquis card to max constantly in my 700 overdraft plus all my household bills which I live alone .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so it sounds as though you paid about £2380 in interest. Can you check up on exactly what you paid them – how many payments and the exact settlement amount?
If they saw a bank statement with a lot of gambling then they should not have given you this loan without looking very closely at it. just being a home owner isn’t good enough! And if your bank statements showed you were paying more on bills than they said then this is a very strong complaint.
So you shsould go back to them and point this out and say you will be sending it to the Ombudsman unless they refund you the interest you paid.
You could if you want say that in order to get this settled quickly, you are happy to just be paid the interest, but you understand that the Ombudsman will also add 8% interest on.
James says
Hi Sara,
I took out a loan in the amount of £6000 several years ago. Prior to taking out the loan I had been living off pre-existing savings and was gambling large sums of money, five figures, most months. On my loan application I stated that I was in full time employment, which wasn’t true, my only source of income was gambling and my rapidly diminishing savings.
Are these circumstances grounds for an affordability complaint? I’m worried that, as I was not truthful on my loan application, my complaint may be rejected and I may suffer adverse consequences.
Incidentally, having received professional help over the past 18 months, I’m now free of my gambling addiction, and I’m finally looking to get my finances in order.
Thank you for all that you do, James
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who was the loan from? how much other debt did you have at the time?
James says
I had a £1000 overdraft, no other debt. The loan was with Lendable.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was the interest rate?
James says
Realtively high – the APR was 27%. Looking back through my records, I can see that I’d also taken out a credit card (£800) one month prior to the loan .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, then I think you should make a complaint and argue that this was a large loan and they knew you were in difficulty or you would not have applied to a bad credit lender and they would not have offered the loan at such a high interest rate. So they should have taken the basic step of verifying your income.
James says
Thanks for this, I’ll draft a detailed complaint over the weekend. The fact that I incorrectly stated that I was in employment; do you think this will be a problem?
Thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well obviously it’s not good! But the lender should not have accepted an application if they thought there was something wrong with it. And if you earned that much with a great credit record why on earth would you apply to Lendable for a loan?
Kelly says
Hi
Please advise.
On my lloyds account I have a gambling freeze but its still allowed payments out for gambling companies. Can I money back and make a complaint? Any help would be great
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are the payments going directly to a gambling form, or to a third party such as Paypal?
Kelly says
Direct to them bot via PayPal
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then this may be difficult but it is well worth a complaint, if Lloyds could see who the money was going to.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you also have an overdraft with lloyds?
Christine James says
Hello Sarah. 2 years ago I took out a £9000 loan with tesco for a car. The majority of that money was spent of home improvements and baby stuff as we also had our first child around that time. That year I had also become addicted to gambling online and lost a small fortune. Exactly a year later September 2021 I took out another £9000 loan for the car I was supposed to get the first time round. However when I called to ask for the loan I was very surprised they accepted as my bank statements showed numerous gambling transactions, many many transactions I’m surprised they missed. I feel like something should’ve been flagged up when they did the checks, and I wish they had declined the loan. I used most of the loan for gambling. And I did get a car, I am now left with so much debt. I’m in a good job, my Credit score is fine, I wouldn’t say I can’t afford to pay the debt but it’s not leaving me with much disposable income each month. I know I am at fault and I have since stopped gambling, but is there anything I can do to bring the debt down? And can I complain? Do I even have a leg to stand on? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can try a complaint about irresponsible lending – when you applied for the second time for a car loan, they should have seen the gambling and declined it.
What was the interest rate on the first loan? On the second loan?
Christine James says
I’m not sure what the rate of the first loan was, when you top up with tesco they use the new loan to pay off the old one so you’re only paying off one loan. The rate is 3%apr. The total interest on the loan is £1414. Will it effect my credit score if I was to complain? And what’s the best way to go about complaining as I’m very embarrassed about this situation. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
sorry I should have asked – did you bank with Tesco’s? So the gambling transaction were on an account with them?
Christine James says
No my current account is with Barclays. Surely though loan companies run checks on your bank statements before allowing you to take out a loan with them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well possibly not for the first loan as your credit rating was obviously great and your salary good.
But in a complaint you can argue that tesco should have looked closely at the 2nd loan application because it was for the same reason – a car – that the first one was, suggesting that something had gone wrong. And if they had looked they would have seen that your you had acquired a lot more credit in the last years and seen the gambling on your bank statements.
This may not be easy to win, but it’s worth a try? If you win, the £1414 would be removed from the balance. It will have no affect on your credit record if you carry on make the loan repayments.
To complain use the form here: https://tescobankportal.icasework.com/resource?id=7228740&db=tescobank
Say you are complaining that it was irresponsible of Tesco to give you the second loan as they should have looked closely at your situation because you were again applying for a loan for a car but that was what you said you wanted the previous loan for. And they should have seen that you had got a lot more credit during the year. And if they had looked closely by asking for bank statements, they would have seen a lot of gambling transactions and should not have lent.
Ask them to resolve this by removing the interest from the current loan balance.
Attach the Barclays bank statement for the month before the 2nd loan application to the complaint.
Christine James says
Thanks for the advice. I’m very embarrassed about this situation and I would like to resolve this with tesco via email if possible as I couldn’t bare to have the conversation over the phone. So my credit score wouldn’t be affected by their response? And what do you think the chances are that I will succeed in this matter? The bank statements leading up to my loan application are ridiculous and I only applied for the loan in desperation. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your credit score can’t be harmed if you make the contractual payments.
I can’t guess what the chances are of you succeeding, all these cases are very individual, but if you don’t try you have no chance…
Chris says
Hello, great article. I have been a problem gambler for many years now, stopping and relapsing multiple times over the years. I had built up huge debts to almost every payday loan company, bank and credit card. Most have cleared or the payday loan companies have liquidated. I made a number of complaints over the years, but mental health etc from my situation made it hard to see them through and a lot were rejected. 2 years ago I applied for a 0% interest credit card to transfer a balance. I was given a £6300 limit, within weeks I had run it up fully on gambling (PayPal and revolut top ups allowed me to do this). I spoke to Santander about my situation fully hoping they could help me. They said because it was 0% and I had income to cover the minimum payment (which they reduced to about 1% of the balance) they didn’t need to out it into payment plan or anything.it was still ‘affordable’. I managed to stop gambling and the company returned my card to normal function, I recently managed to clear the remaining balance by transferring to a new 0% card. A month ago I started doing the same again with the Santander card. Transferring £1000 at a time via Xoom to PayPal and the into my bank accounts or directly to the gambling sites. It has all be used to gamble. I am thinking I should approach Santander again, with the information. They have about me they should have at least recognised what I was doing again, or stopped my card once the balance was paid. Have a I got a case here?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can try.
But to Santander, you look as though you recovered from your problems, don’t you? Why should they close the account when you BTed the balance away? Someone who had recovered could complain that it would be unfair to close their account in that situation.
You have deliberately exploited a loophole to allow credit cards to be used for gambling. Do you want to stop?
Turtle says
has anyone had gambling transactions refunded (credit card affordability complaint in this case) along with interest and charges?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you mean a refund of the amount you borrowed, as well as the interest and charghes?
turtle says
Yes (as in transactions on a credit card).
Ryan says
Hi Sarah,
I’ve raised complaints to all of the lenders excluding one & sent there final letters onto the FOS but the FOS have said there not upholding the complaints as the lenders carried out appropriate checks. I earn around 2000 a month and currently on contract hire/lease, loan & minimum credit card repayments I’m paying out 1650 a month, I don’t understand how they can consider these as affordable when I only have 350 left over each month. with the current repayments I wont be debt free for at least 3 years.
I raised the point about gambling but they’ve argued the site I was using is classed as gaming and not gambling but if you look at any YouTube videos or reviews they all show it as a gambling site and in my opinion looks at what classes something as a gambling this should be included. (the site is called DatDrop)
Is there anything I can do without going into a solvency solution, I do feel like the various lenders(Lloyds, Aqua, Level, MBNA, Likely Loans, JN Bank) have taken advantage of my situation. MBNA & Likely Loans argued that my loan with JN Bank doesn’t show on my credit file which is correct as it only shows on my TransUnion report. When I raised the point with the FOS they said its acceptable for a lender to only check one credit agency
My income varies due to being commission based but if I have a bad month my pay drops to around 1650/1700.
Kind Regards,
Ryan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
which lender have you not complained to?
what is your total debt at the moment?
Ryan says
I haven’t complained to JN Bank, they are the oldest active lender I’ve got at this point in time. They provided a consolidation loan but all of the other lenders have claimed they cant see it because its not on my Experian or Equifax credit report. I feel like they’ve not done anything wrong, they provided a loan when I needed it at 11% interest when everyone else was offering 25-28%.
My total debt is around 31k (7k is credit cards, rest are loans from JN, MBNA & Likely Loans)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you appealed all the Ombudsman adjudicator decisions to an Ombudsman?
Firms recognise gambling by a merchant code indicating gambling on the transactions. They don’t sit and look at someone’s statements and look them up if they don’t recognise the name (which I didn’t). But gambling or not, you have been allowed to borrow an enormous about so there is an argument that the later lenders should not have lent.
Ryan says
I haven’t as the emails from the adjudicator all came across as this wouldn’t make a difference, would i just need to respond asking for an Ombudsman’s final decision? is there any extra info I should give(I’ve already sent bank statements and credit reports).
I know the transactions went through via a merchant called g2a pay, when I’ve I included this in the complaints they came back to say that its classed as a gaming transaction and therefore shows as me overspending instead of a gambling problem.
I will prepare email’s to send back in the morning, would it be worth complaining to JN bank for not reporting to Experian & Equifax as the other lenders have already claimed they couldn’t see the loan on there final letters. Likely loans even stated on the final letter that I had a debt to income ratio of 22% when at the time my statements showed me earning 30k and my debt was at around 36k.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you think the decision is wrong, then yes you should. You need to set out for each lender, why that particular lender should have realised you were in trouble and had too much credit.
No you can’t complain that a bank only reports to one CRA.
But it seems unlikely you will win many of these and I think you should talk to a debt adviser such as National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your options.
Jack says
Hi Sara
Just looking for some advice, I was made unemployed just over three months ago and have been living of my credit cards trying to find a job around my family. About two weeks ago I took a sainsbury loan for £14000 and have lost it all at the casino. I have just found your site after searching for information. But my issue with raising a complaint is I put down my previous salary. I am worried now they will register myself on the fraud list . I can’t even make the first payment. I was just in a bad place the evening i took the loan out . I have now banned my self from the casinos and online . Any advice would be appreciated .
Thanks
Jack
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk to a debt adviser about your full situation and your options. A complaint about the affordability of this loan would, if won, only get the interest removed and you clearly have no way of repaying the amount borrowed or the credit card bills that you are running up. I suggest you talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about your options.
James says
Hi there Sara,
I took out a loan for £8000 at 3.3% with first direct on 25/11/2018 when I was gambling every day and going through a hard time in life and within 2 months I was able to get another loan for £10,000 at 9.9% on 06/01/2019 from them also. At the time I was earning around £1850 per month but recently I am self employed and I earn less than £1000 per month.
I started gamblock on 23/01/2019 and haven’t gambled since but as I was looking online I came across this blog as I’m really trying to sort all my finances out as I’m still paying these loans off and I feel like they should not have given me the second loan less than two months after the first.
I understand that if there was a case that only the interest would be removed but that would help me so much as it would clear one of the loans completely and I have never missed any payments myself.
I’m really not sure but I’d like to know your thoughts.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FD obviously knew the second loan was riskier hence the much larger interest rate.
Were FD your bank at this time? If they were, were there gambling transactions showing on your bank statements? Did you have an overdraft?
what did you say the two loans were for on your application?
Had you recently taken other credit out before the first FD loan?
what is the rest of your financial situation at the moment – do you have other debts you are repaying? Are you buying or renting?
james says
Yes FD was my current account at the time.
I did not have an overdraft and I cannot remember if gambling transactions were on my statements as the account is closed now. I think I was fly and tried not to have transactions directly on the bank statements. I have read that I can possibly contact FD to request my transactions for up to 5 years so I could do that to check.
I am not sure what reason I gave but they are both “personal loans”.
I had not taken out any other credit directly for gambling.
I have another loan of £10,000 from a different bank which I got on 08/10/2019 which I used to clear credit card debt into one payment, I only have around £3000 left to pay on that one.
In total I have £14,000 of loans to still pay off. I have a mortgage and my own household bills etc with everything (including loan repayments) it costs me around £1300 per month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you write to FD and say you want to make a Subject Access Request , saying you would like either a copy of your statements for 2018 or a list of your transactions that year.
You can make complaint without this – the interest on that second loan is so much higher that they must have realised it was a lot more risky. But you will be in a stronger position if you can show they were aware (or should have been aware if they had looked) that you had a gambling issue.
james says
Thank you Sara,
I have requested my statements from FD for 2018 and they will be posted to me within 5-7 days.
Once I have the statements and have checked for gambling transactions, would I just raise a complaint with FD stating that I feel there was a lack of responsibility lending to me so soon after the first loan combined with my gambling issues (highlighting gambling transactions) or how would I go about raising and wording the complaint?
Many thanks,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it depends a bit what the statements show – if there is little of no gambling, then you have to complain that they should have looked more closely at a second large loan so soon after the first one.
But if there is clear gambling before the first loan, then you should argue that both the loans should not have been given.
You can start with the basic template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ and adapt that.
james says
Thanks Sara,
I have received my bank statements and it’s probably one of the most disgusting things I’ve had to do as there are hundreds of gambling transactions all the way through and it makes me feel sick – exactly why I had to stop. (I think I have tried to hide my past from my memory and just focused on sorting things out for so long)
Thank you so much for the advice and I will let you know how I get on with the complaint.
Shaun Silva says
Hi, thanks for all your help on this.
I am trying to get a refund on interest from Moneyboat who gave me 3 loans in the space of 3 months.
I used one of the templates you provided and they replied wanting to see my bank statements.
They also stated:
Should it transpire that information provided by you at the time of application was false or misleading, we may register this attempt to gain redress falsely as a first party fraud with fraud prevention agencies. Any fraud marker may affect your ability to obtain credit with banks and other lenders in the future.
I didn’t declare that the loan would be used for gambling- would this be means to issue a fraud marker?
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They say that to everyone. No one has had a problem if they carried on with the complaint sent it to the Ombudsman.
How large were the 3 loans from them? Did you have other increasing and /or high cost debt?
Adrian says
Hi Sara,
I had a large overdraft (£5K) a credit card (£6K) and a string of progressed loans ending up at the max (£25K) in 2014, all from the same lender, Nationwide, who has replied stating that as all the progressive credit was affordable their decision is that I am not eligible to get refunded interest charges. They state that the facilities to check gambling history were not in place in 2014 and only came into place in their organisation in 2019 so they were unable to do checks on gambling history and, as my cards were consistently being paid, through winnings payments from gambling sites mostly, that the increased borrowing was therefore affordable.
I had a severe gambling problem back then, £1000’s of pounds going in and out most weeks and sometimes in a day. I wonder how I am to approach the Ombudsman to argue their decision? Any help would be fantastic, thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
were gambling transactions showing on your current account with Nationwide and/or on the credit card statements?
Adrian says
Yes, clearly evident on both
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then send this straight to the Ombudsman. If you had an increasing series of loans, ending up VERY large, then they should have considered if the loans were actually helping you and looked at what else they knew about you eg the current account and the overdraft.
Adrian says
Thanks you, this was my thinking but, reference to their response about not having the systems in place to check such details, what should I include in my statement to the ombudsman to counter this?
Or, should I stand in good stead with my original post to you here?
What amount of statements or such should I produce to the ombudsman?
Thank you for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I should say that a number of loans of increasing size should have caused someone to make a thorough check, even if that required a manual check rather than being automatically systems generated. Nationwide should have made proper checks, the fact they didn’t means you were not treated fairly.
Adrian says
Thank you Sara, I really appreciate your help. Should i send bank statements or will this be requested by the ombudsman on their review?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you attach bank statements. If there are a very large number of the, just attach a few and say you have others available as required.
Hp2020 says
Hi bit of long story just asking for some advice barclays have never written to me but ibdecided but complaint in after seeing this thread couple months ago
5 years ago i was unemployed and had been for 6 months and barclays offerd me over draft off 1000 which i took then kept offering me upped limits which i kept taking i no my own fault seriously regret now then popped up on app about 8 months later your elibligle for loan so thought get the loan pay overdraft off as was 5000 by this time so got the 7000 loan n slowly n surely kept using for life . I had a gambleing problem to which they saw ovz since was all with the bank i used . But been 7 week now n just extended it again for 4th time saying need more time to look at my complaint . Im scared there going to close my account . Im still unemployed now at the time this was happening i was starting with epilepsy n continuely got worse . so my loan had 2700 left n im still 5000 overdrawn paying 330 a month to them 120 to overdraft charges 210 loan . I think there in wrong but unsure what to doo if come back saying done nothing wrong . I no i can foward to FOS at 8 week should i tell them i am doing ? I can only go back on my app 3 years not rest for evidence so dnt have all dates everything happened .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s pretty normal not to get a reply until the 8 week point. If you haven’t had a reply then, I suggest you do send it to the Ombudsman. You don’t need all the dates before then – your story seems clear enough without them. Make sure it is clear you are complaining about both the loan and the overdraft.
If you are concerned they may close your account, open another one now, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/bank-accounts-after-bankruptcy/ for accounts you can open and will not be rejected because of your poor credit.. It’s unlikely they will do this but you may feel more secure knowing you have another account immediately available.
Do you have any other debts? Because regardless of Barclays decision on this, I can’t see how you can make these debt repayments if your only income is benefits?
Hp2020 says
Hi from 2017- 2020 i was on 320 pound a month so literaly less than needed to pay it my girlfriend and mum helped me out . In 2020 realised wasnt getting the epilepsy undercontrol and wasnt going back work anytime soon and sorted out pip as needed to be watched long story and not good one and got extra off uc for being incapable of work .
No no other debts never had anything except these ones . I have been late n missed payments n been over the 5000 because off charges quiet alot over last 4 years .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, well come back here and say what Barclays offer you, Because if it isnt a good offer, (which will clear or very nearly clear the loan and overdraft) I can talk about what your other options are as the case goes trhough the Ombudsman.
Hp2020 says
Hi sara its gone over 8 week received a letter saying still need time to investigate they hope to resolve soon and send me final response but i am withing my rights . Should i give them another couple off week or just refer it . Just with reading about the backlogs on obusman if i send now does that mean they they have to deal with ombusman then n cant send me a final response ?
I also checked back via transctions alot off my gambleing just showed up as paypal as pid threw them most off time but alot didnt either luckly were i had payed on card running up to the overdraft and in between each increase also more gambleing was july first got 1500 overdraft n by end off august i was up to 5000 then begining off october the 7000 loan when i had wasted all the overdraft on gambleing then proceeded to waste that aswell .
If ruffly worked out iv already paid 10300 on the loan n still have 2700 left doe this mean that 2700 should be wiped out ? was on 7000 begin with
and paid 5100 in overdraft charges .
Thanks for any advice
Hp2020 says
It actually worse than i though im disgusted with myself
After bouncing 10 paypal payments to casinos on 8th june i got a unpaid transctions statement off amounting to 1000 pound on the 12th june i took a 1000 overdraft then upped it to 2000 the same day then to 2500 on 19th then 2500 then again that day 2700 25th 3500 on 28th 3990 All i. june so from zero overdraft and 1000 bouncing out my account to 3990 in a month n gambled all that away various casinos see at least 6 deposit after depsoit same days . Then constabtly at maxed out to august i did it again with paypal n wasted 800 also barclays sent me a fincal difficulty letter on 28th then let me up it to 5000 on 1st september then month and 5 days later after used every penny off that n was over drawn with charges . I got the 7000 loan on 5th october after another financial difficulty letter and the proceded to bounce and pay even more charges every month for 18 month 2 moths after getting the loan until until i finally told girlfriend and mum what was going on .
Iv messaged barclays with this info saying add to my existing complaint as i was getting documents together for the FOS
I just feel like how can it be taking this long to decide i have checked it is with the case manager people i told barclays i want a email from them today .
Iv worked out iv paid 5500 in charges and 9880 on the loan so technically its paid off by over 3000 once this months payment will be took so hopefully should get that back is that right ? . Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you phone them up on Monday and say the case goes to the Ombudsman if you have not had a reply by the end of the week.
Hp2020 says
Hi sara im abit confused
I reported my case to fos and recived a letter we used girlfriend email address not thinking anything off it but they replied needed send letter as email address been previous used which it had but hers had been done threw claims management company and she lost 35% so not gone done it threw one off them this time
So sent email explaining why because off my memory problems just used hers as she had remind me we even sent to FOS and hospital letters as proof . But on last page off letter says this
Barclays should give you there final response wjfhjng eight weeks at most
At this stage barclays bank plc should also let yoi no that you have six minths frk tbe response to ckme back to us if your not happy
We wont take any further action unless we hear from you ahakn and i hope barclahs bank uk plf can rssolbe things for you
But i stated already been 9 week in my application thing as i had put date i complained and had no final response
It does say they have sent complaint over to barclays aswell to make them aware is it just standard that last bit ?
Thanks for any advice
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how did you complain to Barclays? Have you had any response from them?
Hp2020 says
Yes i have had a few letters saying need more time and at 8 week sent me letter and leaflet about fos saying i can forward onto obsuman now but they hope to resolve soon which at 9 week i did as wasnt getting anywere phoning up etc so was confused with that part off letter
Hp2020 says
I did it via live chat on barclays app then had email off complaints team sayin will get in contsct by 17th about it then letters that kept extending needing more time and last one was 4 week ago nearly and nothing since .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so reply to the Ombudsman saying that Barclays have already had more than 8 weeks and that they have replied to you saying you can go to FOS – attach the reply.
Hp2020 says
Hi sara thanks for all you advice so far im so anixious i contacted barclays bia online chat wish i never im so confused now they can see any info on my complaint just that it has been marked as resolved and closed ? Iv not had my letter yet does this mean they havent accepted that they are wrong can they close it why its with the FOS ? Is my question if the dont accept what do i do next
i cant sleep with having aniexty attacks about it praying letter comes tommorow
And thanks in advance
Hp2020 says
Hi sara still no reply from fos but iv had email from barclays asking me for feedback on how handled complaint when i went to do it asked me had i recived my outcome letter which i havent as yet do said canr do complaint and said i should recieve in few days and also they have put a statememt from my loan on my documents how much i have paid normally get one once a year threw post it says on it regulated statemner but already had one just think werid timing that that goes on and get thing saying should have outcome n that goes on same day . Here hoping its sign iv won it haha will let you no
Hp2020 says
Hi just abit off update
Someone tried ring me today left a message that want to speak to me about my complaing . Got this txt after as didnt answer Hi. We’re sorry you’ve had cause to complain to Barclays. We’re keen to put this right for you as soon as possible and would like to talk to you about your complaint. We’d like to try and call you again today, so please reply to this message with the most convenient time for you. Your case handler is in office until 7:30pm this evening. Kind Regards, Barclays.
I have very bad aniexty on phone to replied its noted on my account that wont speak on fone so sending me letter as cnt email me 🙏🏻 Hopefully this was reply to wont speak on phone
Hi Mr Dean it is noted on record but there’s no specific request to not receive any phone calls which is why I’ve still tried. SMS and email are not secure methods of communication so I will send our response via first class post to the home address we have on your record. My email address will be enclosed in the letter so you can contact me if you have any questions. Kind regards, Lucy – Specialist Complaints Handler
Hopefully good news when letter comes
Thanks
Hp2020 says
Also add which find werid my account statement hasnt been put on my online accoung on 30 or 1st off month like always has done wondering if taking charges off haha hopefully letter comes today :)
Hp2020 says
Hi sara i recived my letter no what i hoped for they just seemed to ignored the loan part ? No mention off it
Offerd me 4089 pound good will gesture and email to confirm if i accept the offer the money would come in handy to clear overdraft but i will have to keep carrying on paying off the loan 210 a month for next year even tho allready paid 10300 on a 7000 loan and still 2374 left so 5374 interest iv would have paid if accept this thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I know you don’t like the phone, but I suggest you phone them up or send them a message in the app and ask why they have not responded to your complaint about the loan.
Hp2020 says
I am messageing on online chat and was email address on letter so emailed i honestly cant ring i had panic attack thinking about it today got self that worked up .
I jusy done get it i literally said after the overdraft par and also the 7000 pound loan that i should never have been aloud to have as i had already upped my overdraft to 5000 in the 3 month previous and i was unemployed it is unaffordable lending on your part as i was only on 317 pound a month income and numerous gambleing transction
Said in that letter there not admitting faukt as i upped the overdraft myself threw the app
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok so what did they say on the chat. All you need to know is if they have rejected the complaint about the loan or not considered it or what. Then you can decide whether to send it to the Ombudsman.
Hp2020 says
There trying to contact the complaints handler to see why the loan wasnt acknowledged in the final response and said will reply to me its a seperate department that i cant contact only by phone been promised email updates that never arrived which iv also complained about they have the name off her so hopefulky be quick So glad i have the chats still so the evidence i said both
Sara (Debt Camel) says
good, fingers crossed it gets sorted without having to go to FOS.
Hp2020 says
Hi sara thanks for help not going to belive this ill send you a reply ull see issues i had i done to email ( not on the email account i use a old one that was updated 4 years ago to my new one
Hi i dont if this will go threw but i am beyond angry
I have been contacting online chat for months
Asking for update about my complaint no1 told me it had been spilt into 2 seperate complaints i wanted looked at as 1 as one went onto the other about irresponsible you was about the over draft and loan only to find out today even tho iv contacted 3 times in past week i should have got a email on 21/10 snd a letter sent out from someone other than hu thought was handleing my complaint i said iv had no email double check nope
So check old email account yes its there but not letter been send out with FOS leaflet in ? Like should be
Telling me i had a disposible income off 1838 no i didnt in lead up i was serverly overdrawn and gambleing heavelly in lead up to loan
First 1000 june 12
Then increased june 12 to 2000
Then increased june 19 to 2500
Then increase june 24 to 2700
Then increased june 25 to 3500
Then increased june 28 to 3990
Then increases august to 5000 even tho all august was gettinh finacal difucullty letters sent to me
Then 1 month and 5 days later after more bounced transcations and more financal diffulty letters i get a 7000 loan aunthorised
Hp2020 says
Btw why all this was happening i was only getting 317 off universal credit ans gambleing and gambling the iverdraft my winnings and all my savings away
Even if u say i could afford it with the income expenditure in my account iff you was responsibke lender would you have given me a loan after me a overdraft 3 month prior letting me max that out then lend me a further 7000 pound at a high interest rate which i then went on to gamble no thats nor responsibke you saw i was in finacal difficulty with a gambleing problem and loaned me the money anyways
I would like a replys to this asap before i forward all this information and how this has been handled to the FOS
Hp2020 says
Iv got the email address off the person who did the loan part off my complaing sent him all that what i wrote down asking why was only income a expenditure that was took into account not the fact i was spending sometimes 1000s in a day with no actual income just gambleing and over draft when he made his descion and expect a quick reply im putting in another complaint now about how it has been handled being spilt into 2 seperate complaints without my knowledge not sending me the loan complaint reference number when the complaint was slipt
Sending my final descion to 4 year old email address and not sending me one threw post with FOS leaflet
But been told cant speak to him via email as not secure was secure enough send my final response to a old email address though When i replied to orignal email asking what is going on
online chat about not being able to update me as they have even been able to today from 21st october but i had wrong ref number but think one off them would have mentioned it last 6 times i contacted since 21st october like the gentelman did today
Even though it noted on my account not to ring me they tried to and keep telling me to ring up the list endless
Hopefully get reply tommrow will let you no least i no im gett 4000 pound no matter what now iv accepted ir now not tied to loan .
Feel better just knowing whats going on thought :)
Hp2020 says
Hi sarah i no been along time but thought would updategot a response from fos :) they have agreed that was irresponsible lending and told barclays refund all interested and charges plus 8% barclays have till 22nd june reply to the so fingers crossed dont try argue i sent all my statements leading up to overdraft then the loan etc and is mentioned in that plus all gambling’s transcations so feeling postive took along while just waiting about but should get the last 1000 off my loan cleared and 5000 back hopefully thank you so much for this website without it i would still be drowing iny overdraft :)
Steven says
Hi Sara,
I’ve finally had contact with the FOS after 6 months of waiting for my affordability complaint to be assessed.
I had at the time of my credit card application for Nationwide income of £1716 after deductions.
After working it out with the FOS’ 5% rule I’ve worked it out to be around £540 left. Before any food or other commitments such as the gym etc..
Nationwide gave me a limit of £5,400 so the FOS have calculated this as £270 so that would leave £240 after financial commitments (rent, credit cards, loans, overdrafts).
Is there not a portion set aside for sustainability / living costs? Or do affordability complaints only look at debt to income ratio?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is where looking at your bank statements comes in. There is no debt/income ration, it depends on what your costs are for food, petrol, transport, clothes, toiletries, prescriptions, etc.
Have you supplied FOS with your bank statements?
Steven says
Thank you for getting back to me, I have given the FOS about 5 months statements (October – February) as I took the credit card out in last January 2019.
The communications I received was very vague about anything else, they seemed on focused on financial commitments and when I asked about additional costs it seemed like these weren’t included in there calculations. Just a bit confused about it all, I hope I haven’t missed something or maybe I’ve miss understood something as they stated gambling transactions aren’t class as expenditure.
The whole expenditure and gambling has confused me quiet a lot.
Hopefully that all makes sense and you can see my worry?
Many thanks again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So when you applied for the card, how large a limit were you given? What could the c est card company see about you at that time… had your credit gone up a lot recently? Any recent problems on your credit record?
Steven says
I was given a £5400 credit limit straight off the bat. I had applied for this through my Nationwide current account.
But other debts at the time was a sharp rise in my overdraft from £500 in October to £1000 in December.
In addition I had a £3700 Virgin money credit card that was maxed out and I was paying the minimum.
I had taken a loan out in October for £1000 again with Nationwide but I paid that off within 3 weeks.
A £2550 paypal credit account(which I paid £153 per month), a £12000 tesco loan(£236 per month) and a £35 mobile contract.
All above and rent of £510 including bills, but I had other commitments like Spotify, gym and other things.
I worked out off my statements (if you include fast food, Just Eat, McDonalds etc) my monthly spend in food was £280 and £120 on fuel, not to mention anything else and getting public transport to work some days.
And just a lot of gambling transactions!
But I feel as though I’m missing something, or not understanding something.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So when you applied for the card, was there significant gambling showing on your Nationwide bank statement?
Steven says
Yeah about 300+ transactions from various online gambling sites. From October, right up to the day I applied for the credit card.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then that is the point you need to make to the adjudicator. Nationwide should have been aware from your current account that you had a significant gambling problem and it was irresponsible to give you a credit card with a large limit.
Steven says
Hi Sara,
A little update, Nationwide has not responded to the Adjudicators request for more information from them so he is making his decision based on the information available, but from what I have gathered he is looking at the 3 months statements I have provident prior to the credit card being taken out.
I have asked a couple of questions about how he’s planning on looking at my income and expenditure and what is included, but I’ve not had any response that addresses my questions.
Do cash withdrawals, clothing and vehicle tax come under affordability or as an expense?
Do you have any idea how they would plan on calculating things such as living etc?
He seems to still be set on assessing this without the gambling aspect which I still find a little strange.
Many thanks again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Clothing is a necessity (unless you are spending a huge amount on it). So is car tax. Cash withdrawals – if these are very large because of gambling, I assume you have made this argument?
Jax says
Good evening. I’ve had a rejection for my complaint against Shawbrook Bank directly from the lender. They state they did comprehensive checks and even carried out a call with me before approving the loan. They did indeed do this. I told them that the loan was for home improvements but of course it was for me to use for gambling. I’m worried about escalating to the Financial Ombudsman Service because of this. This loan was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me and the very last loan I took out before I ended up not being able to afford the huge level of debt I was in because of gambling. I’m after some advice as to whether I should pursue it further please. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
had your other debts been increasing massively over the previous few months?
Jax says
Hi Sara, yes they asked me about a 10k loan I had taken out 2 months earlier in the call. This loan took me to about 52k of debt. Maxed out credit cards, always in my overdraft. I had also taken out a 5k loan the month before but this wouldn’t have been on my credit report at the time. The Financial Ombudsman Service found the 10k loan to be unaffordable last month and 3 of my credit cards and my catalogue have also been found to be unaffordable at FOS. All of which were taken out ages before this loan.
Jax says
Actually, their response says they asked me what the loan was for and I said home improvements. That’s not true, they asked me what the 10k loan taken out 2 months earlier was for and I said that was for home improvements. Of course I had gambled it all away instead.
Jax says
The adjudicator ruled in my favour but Shawbrook asked for extra time to respond. They have now asked the adjudicator for my bank statements 3 months prior to them giving me the loan. Should I let them have them? They will see that the previous loan they asked me about wasn’t used for home improvements. They have been a horrible lender since day 1.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then send this straight to FOS. The lender should have made better checks when the loans is large and your total credit has been going up a lot.
PS have you looked at an overdraft complaint too?
Jax says
Thanks Sara I will do just that. Yes I complained to my bank last year and they upheld it and paid me the interest and charges back.
Jax says
I’m now totally confused. I had £600 left to pay on this account. I was making the final payment at the end of this month. It would have been paid off ages ago but Shawbrook were so difficult to agree a payment plan with it took 12 months to agree a plan so I didn’t make any payments during this time. I have received a letter today saying that a debt collector was now collecting this on their behalf. But the amount owed is just shy of £200 less than the £600 due according to the letter. No idea why this is the case, nor why they have chosen to take this action when I only had 1 payment remaining. What on earth is that about?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no idea.
Natasha says
Hi all,did anyone make complaint against lending works (fluro now)?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not that I recall – but just use the standard “large loans” template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
Jack says
Hi Sara,
I’m unsure where i stand in receiving any refund due to my problem gambling (Which is now resolved) and i’m looking for some advice. In early 2020 at the onset of lockdowns, i developed a gambling problem where i lost my savings and took out my first of many loans/CC’s.
For reference, I have been employed the entire time earning between £1300-£1500PCM
March 2020 – Bambooloans 5,000 (paid off using nationwide loan in october)
July 2020 – Virgin money 4,200
October 2020 – Nationwide 7,500 (I already had 2 bank accounts with nationwide, where for 2 years had overdrafts of £3000 being used monthly)
November 2020 – Bambooloans 7,500
March 2021 – Fluid CC 750 (they repeatedly increased this limit until last week, up to 2500)
I have now been accepted for a DRO as of this week. I don’t feel as though the relevant checks were taken on my loan applications which were always selected as “other” for my reason for the loan.
What would you recommend?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should not make any complaints until your DRO year has finished- otherwise if you get a refund of more than 2k your DRO may be revoked.
Once the DRO has finished you can make complaints but if you are complaining about a debt that was included in your DRO, a refund will first be used to offer that amount so the refunds you get may be small or in some cases non existent.
Rob says
Hello Sara
Quick one, if I’ve complained about irresponsible lending should I be making payments? I could make these payments but doing so would mean stripping back on paying anything else & leave with me very little for the month.
The main concern was the fact I believe they should have done more checks etc as my month on month debt was increasing. Directly linked with gambling
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you stopped gambling?
Rob says
I have yes. Signed up to GameStop & blocked cards from being able to pay for it. Partner takes out a small amount of cash for me to cover weekly expenses so well controlled.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good – its the essential first step.
These complaints can go on for a long time if they have to go to the Ombudsman so you really need to be in a safe financial posion while this goes through. And for an ex-gambler this is especailly important as unless you are in a comforable, low stress situation it increases the psychological pressure to try for a quick win.
I usually suggest that people look at a debt management plan for all their debts – talk to StepChange on 0800 138 1111 about this. This will harm your credit record but any complaints you win should result in negative marks being removed from your credit record. And winning complaints will speed up yopur DMP a lot.
If you simply stop paying, you may get a lot of hassle from the lenders and then debt collectors. And your credit record will also be harmed.
Rob says
Thanks Sara
Understood
Matt says
Hi Sara
Hope you can help me , i took a loan out with sainsburys for £14000 in july , i left my job in september after having some health issues due to me gambling the loan away within a couple of weeks . I had lost 13500 in the three months leading up to taking the loan out . The ombudsman has said due to the fact i had £880 before taking the loan they had no reason to check any further the problem is they only asked for my rent , i was in a bad place after losing a £5000 loan borrowed from my dad and was looking for any money to pay back . It seem from what i have read on the ombudsman decsion page some asks for bank statements and others dont i am sure had they seen my bank statements the loan would never have been given but the ombudsman doesnt want to take these into account . Any help would be appreiciated.
Ps would congo rules apply with lenght of the loan being five years for more checks
Thanks
Matt.
Matt says
Sorry forgot to mention even tho they say sainsburys says i had £880 after all my bills before taking this loan its more like £300 not sure if that makes any diffrence
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How Large were the loan repayments?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What interest rate was this loan?
How much other debt did you have before taking this loan? Would your credit record have showed that you had recently taken out other loans or increased your credit card usage a lot?
What did you say the purpose of the loan was?
Matt says
Hi sara
Thanks for getting back the intrest rate was 14 % for the loan . It adverised 4% but was just happy to be acepted as i knew it would hopeful give me funds to pay off a few debts and win some money .
I said i would use the money for a car which i also did need which my dad had lent me the money .
monthly payments are 306.00
I had 4 credit cards with a total of £2500 and my limits came to £4700 so just over 50% of my limits i had also just been acepted for a tesco credit card with a £5000 limit which i maxed out within a couple of weeks but was told as it was not on my credit file it would not count .
Thanks
Matt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know how they calculated 880? You said they only asked about your rent?
Matt says
Hi sara
They used an internal system , that works out everything from just your rent and current balances , but i dont think i ever came close to having £880 in my bank and then if you minus £306 i thing the closer figure would be about £450 but then when you take the loan off that plus with inflation not much left to play with each month .
Thanks
Matt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to your adjudicator and say you did not have £880 spare each month and that Sainsburys obviously knew this was a risky loan as they charged you 14% interest, even though you responded to an advert which said 4%. So as Sainsburys knew you were not in an easy situation, they should have verified your expenses figures, not assumed that the standard figures from their system would be correct.
This is worth pushing over, but cases where the gambling is not clear to the lender and your credit record is not bad are hard to win.
Matt says
Thank sara
I will go back to the ombudsman with your points.
Thanks again helpful as ever.
Happy christmas
Matt says
Hi Sara
I put the information you provided me in an email to the ombudsman yesterday and just had an email back saying that once a decsion has been made nothing else can be done none of the evidence i have submited since will be looked at Is this right ?
The ombudsman has reviewed your email. They’ve said the decision cannot be revisited and there’s no further recourse after a final decision. If you don’t accept the decision, you’re free to take action through another route, such as the courts.
Any requests for information the business holds about you should be directed to the business as our involvement ends after a final decision is issued.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
sorry, you didn’t say this was a final decision from an Ombudsman. In this case it is too late to make further arguments – as I said cases where the gambling is not clear to the lender and your credit record is not bad are hard to win.
Rach says
Not loan related but banking so not sure if you can help?
I’ve had my card switched off for Gambling with Natwest due to a gambling issue and have signed up for Gamstop. Unfortunately I relapsed through non-Uk gaming sites which use third party sites to take payments – the payments show items such as “amazeskins” as their transactions.
I have to authorise them through the app and there have been times they’ve blocked my account and I’ve spoken to them and they ask what they are to be sure they’re not fraudulent and I’ve told them it’s online gaming.
I’m not trying to absolve all responsibility but I’ve put a gambling block on the card and am trying everything I can get the number of transactions and me telling them it’s online gaming and they still let me use the card for it.
Would I have a cause to complaint to the bank about it so you think? I don’t want to blacklist myself for bank accounts by doing so
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’ve had my card switched off for Gambling with Natwest due to a gambling issue
This was imposed by Natwest or you asked for the block?
did you have an overdraft on this account?
Rach says
I asked for the block via the card controls. There’s a small overdraft on the account
jamie says
hi Sara , i was wondering if you could please give me some advice . i have been an addicted gambler for more than 10 years , i have a car finance agreement at the moment that i took finance out for 11700 with money barn in 2019 which i have to payback 23000. i have less than 2 years then its paid off , i have been gambling heavy for the past 10 years trying to win money to pay for bills and cover bills. would this be something i could complain to them about ? i am trying to get my life on track and sort my finances out. just to add i recently found out that i had a ccj on my file from 2018 for 530 from Lowell , this was for finance from Littlewoods from 2014 , would i be able to complaint to Littlewoods about this as i was gambling heavy at that time or is it too late?
your advice or help would be massively appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much have you paid Moneybarn so far?
Have you now stopped gambling and are you getting help?
Jamie says
I have paid around 12/13k off at the moment .I haven’t gam stopped my self at the moment due a complaint I have made about a company allowing to make 370 transactions a month so didn’t want them to. Lock the account. I was still gambling last month and have been during the whole of the agreement .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you have paid Moneybarn more than you borrowed – in this case if you win the complaint the standard redress is that you can keep the car with no more to pay and get a cash refund of the small amount you have paid over the amount you borrowed. As this is a priority debt, it’s probably a good idea to complain now.
There are also probably a lot more affordability complaints you could make, but really these are best left until you have been able to stop gambling. At that point winning these complaints can transform your finances. Do it now while you are still gambling and it may simply all end up back with the bookies in a few months.
I don’t see why making a complaint to a gambling firm should prevent you using Gamstop. It is not in your interest to have this account open.
Jamie says
Hi , since reading this post I have just signed up to GameStop , just need to submit my id. In regards to making the complaint , should I do it now as I am in 400 pound arrears ? I can clear the arrears with my wage at the end of the month , just don’t want them taking the car .please could you advise if I am to late for the ccj that I mentioned in my first post .thank you so much for replying and helping out.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you clear the arrears and be able to get through the next month? If you can, that would seem safest.
re the Lowell CCJ. Yes you can complain to Littlewoods. Did they increase your credit limit when you were only making minimum payments? Do you have any evidence ege bank statements so long back?
jamie says
Hi Sara , first of all thank you , you was right there was no need for me to keep my gambling accounts open and i have now fully self excluded with GAMSTOP . I should be able to clear and still manage until next month , i will then send money barn a complaint and keep you updated. In regards to the ccj i cannot remember if they raised the limit as it was that long ago and i will ring the bank tomorrow to see how far they can go back. i have also messaged the court that issued the ccj for the details as they had the wrong address on file . A couple of years earlier i did a statuary declaration at the court for my driving licence as i wasn’t living at the address , i am awaiting a response off them . What avenue would you pursue , the court or Littlewoods?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Littlewoods.
A statutory declaration won’t work for this.
jamie says
would i be able to include it within a complaint to capital one as there connected with littlewoods?i also took a credit card out with capital one which i fell behind on and im in contact to pay it back , this credit card was issued after the ccj from littlewoods(which has still not been paid)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you had a Littlewoods card as well?
Jamie says
Yes this is what I got the ccj for in 2018
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then yes you can make one complaint to Capital one about both cards. Make it clear that there are two cards. And that you want the CCJ “set aside” (legal term for deleted.)
philip says
Hey Sara
Hope you are well
About 4 years ago I racked up about 25000 in credit card gambling debt. I managed to pay this off after selling my house. The amount was spread between a mixture of credit card providersall having a few thousand on each.
Am I able to contact these and request the interest back ? I can remember an example where I was depositing 250 pounds every 2-5 mins and they didn’t try and stop me . It’s my fault I know that but it was unaffordable at the time and I was out of control .
Any advice would help thanks
Phil
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The key thing here for affordability claims is whether the card lender should have known about your gambling problem.
SO if you had 5 cards with a 5000 limit and no problems, then you suddenly fell into an gambling addiction and maxed out the card – no you probably don’t have a claim.
But if any of the cards increased your limit when gambling was showing on the card. Or when your credit record showed you had borrowed a lot over the previous few months. Or you got a new card when your borrowing had recently shot up. Then you may well win a complaint.
philip says
Hey Sara
I think it would be the later of the 2 scenarios . What would be my next move ? Unfortunately I cannot find my old statements . The cards were both from MBNA 👍
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then I suggest you start a complaint against MBNA now.
The template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ asks for details of credit limit increases. Yiou can add to that to also ask when the account was opened.
Don’t delay. in making the complaint.
Also get a copy of your current record downloaded now. And set about getting your bank statements going back at least 6 years, even from closed accounts. You will need these later on as this case may well have to go to the ombudsman.
Darius says
Hi Sarah, I want to ask about my situation and your thoughts. I’ve had a history of gambling since 2017. They clearly show on my bank statements until 2018 when I signed up to GamStop, but since then I’ve been gambling in-person using cash withdrawals and depositing by card for chips
My history is as follows
Natwest Sep 21 – £5000 loan at 20% APR
Natwest Oct 21 – second £5000 loan at 22.30% APR
During this time I had a maxed NewDay card that was taken out in May 2021 at a balance of 1450 and also permanently maxed out on my monzo overdraft of £1000
I can’t remember but I think I also had a Natwest overdraft of £500 during this time that was always close to the limit. I had continued to gamble throughout this whole time
In April 2022 I had a win and payed off my first natwest loan in full. May 2022 I lost it all back and took a Updraft May 22 – £3000 loan 22.9% and lost it all the next day. I also took a 4000 loan from a high interest lender (forgot the name) but I cancelled within 14 days and paid it back.
July 2022 opened a new NewDay card (Fluid) (while my 1st NewDay card Aqua was maxed out to 2450) with a 1050 limit, raised to 2250 in August 2022 and fully maxed out with cash transfers and card machine withdrawals
Darius says
November 2022, Natwest gave me anoverdraft of 1750, 39.9% fully maxed out within a few days with cash withdrawals. Monzo also increased my overdraft limit to £2000 from £1000, fully maxed again within a couple days. I asked Updraft for a new loan in November 2022, they offered me £4000 at 24.90% which was lost within a few days. I’ve finally stopped since then and have blocked myself at all land based casinos.
My repayments I have struggled to continue with and putting all my expenditure on a credit card. Was wondering what case I have? Do these transactions being linked to cash withdrawals / cash desk withdrawals affect my case? Updraft and NewDay were linked directly (truelayer) with my Natwest account that showed all of this. Monzo cant see this but I had gambling transactions and very irregular large in/out goings of cash
Thanks
Darius says
Also just wanted to add, should I go on a DMP if I cant make afford my payment this month? Would it better to wait for the case to remove my negative marks?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so your NatWest account showed very large cash withdrawals from 2018 until you finally stopped gambling? Abnormally large?
did your Monzo account also show this?
Darius says
My natwest showed my gambling habit since 2018 – all were my own cash and overdraft. Deposits range from £50-£1000 at a time. Then things spiralled when I took my first loan in 2021. My natwest current account has a ingoing of 260k and outgoing of 270k since 2014 (from the SAR request I made)
My monzo account has regular cash withdrawals of £200 at a time (the daily limit)
Also transactions to gambling companies
Darius says
Sorry, I realise my comment wasn’t clear. I have direct transactions to online gambling companies until 2018. Since then it’s all cash withdrawals and in-person cash deposits which show the casinos name
I haven’t stopped until a couple months ago
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And the cash deposits showing the casino name went to NatWest and Monzo?
Darius says
Correct all shown to natwest and monzo. I have a third account with Santander that I use to circumvent the Daily Cash withdrawal limit
Updraft can see all this information with truelayer connection before I applied
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think that sounds like good reasons to complaint to NatWest, Monzo and Updraft. Withdrawing £200 a day in cash and making deposits from casinos should have suggested to any lender that looked that you had a gambling problem.
For each one, get a blank sheet of paper and write down a timeline of your borrowing history with them. Then add on notes about what the lender should have seen from your bank statements at the time of each lending. And also what they would have seen from your credit record at that time. Use these to explain why the lending should have been made in your complaint email.
Kyle says
Hey all, I know this is probably wishful thinking, but I raised an irresponsible lending complaint to Aqua. I included in my complaint that I had won 4 cases exactly like the one I’m complaining about, within the same time period also. Took a credit card out in April 2017 and they increased the credit 5 times. All the while I was spending to the limit and when I was making/ am making payments it’s the minimum and then I spend it again. They carried on increasing it. With all this information, has there ever been anyone to be accepted before ombudsmen? 😅
Wsrwick65 says
Hi
Aqua accepted my complaint and repaid all the interest. However they closed my account and refused to pay the 8% statutory interest. I think had I gone to the ombudsman I might have won but had other things going on at the time.
Anna says
I brought a complaint to Aqua about giving me two credit cards, one after I’ve defaulted in the past with them. They upheld my complaint and refunded interest on the second card but refused to remove the default on my credit file. I raised it to the ombudsman and by the time they contacted me, aqua agreed to remove the default.
J says
Morning Sara
Monzo upheld a complaint and agreed to report no negative information on the credit report. I accepted the complaint but still took it to the FOS. The FOs upheld my complaint and confirmed Monzo should pay some compensation. On the FOS complaint they never mentioned the reporting to the credit file and I didn’t question it as was prior agreed. Can they back
Track
From this as I now have an arrangement on the credit file when for the last 6 months it was showing as OK?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s a shame you didn’t get this made clear in the FOS complaint, but now go back to Monzo and ask them to remove the payment arrangement markers.
J says
Thanks for getting back to on the weekend.
I have but the complaints team have said to me the FOS didn’t mention this so they don’t have to. I’ve got it in writing that this was agreed prior so I didn’t seem the need to question it when I got the FOS decision As belived it would still be binding
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them that. Point out FOS did not say that they didn’t need to correct the credit record. Say a new compel goes to FOS unless they agree to keep to the previous agreement.
Jamie says
Hi ,
One company come back to me and said they don’t uphold my complaint as the underwriter took the necessary checks how ever they have said as gesture of good will they will remove off my credit file . Would this be worth sending on to the ombudsman or accept their gesture ?what are your thoughts ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
would you like to say some more about this debt – was it a loan? how large? when was it taken out? ? do you still owe any money on it? how much interest have you paid?
jamie says
hi sara ,
sorry for the late reply .
the debt was for £600 , this was payed off . should i just accept the removal off credit file?
i have not raised my complaint with money barn yet as im still in arrears by 220 pounds , this will be cleared end of march ( kept up-to-date with normal monthly payments). should i just raised this even with owing a balance.
Also since all this , i made a complaint to tsb as they never intervened with how much gambling i did , i went into unauthorised overdrafts when it was only a basic essential account , they agreed with me they fell short of service and have offered 300 pounds , should i refer to ombudsman or take the offer ?
thanks for your help so far .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you just had one debt for £600 this may be a hard case to win at the Ombudsman. If you decide to settle for them deleting the debt from your credit record, make you you have taken a copy of the credit record showing it first, as you may need this for other complaints.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
re money barn – how much did you borrow (not counting the interest they added on)?
how much have you paid to them so far?
jamie says
i have payed around 14-15k back , i borrowed 11700 . i owe around 7500 . should i make the complaint now or wait until i have cleared the arrears of £220.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you have repaid more than you borrowed – that’s good as if you win a complaint you would get to keep the car (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/)
in theory you can complain now but you may feel more comforabewl when the arrears are cleared at the end of the month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
re TSB –
how long did this period last?
do you know how much you were charged in interest and charges for this unauthorised overdraft?
If you don’t know, tell TSB you would like to consider their offer but can they tell you the total added in interest and charges charges for the unauthorised overdraft usage?
jamie says
hi sara ,
i have just phoned tsb complaint handler and they advised they cannot give an amount, they have said the first charge was july 2013 and the last was june 2022. they advised I would have to go through the ten years of statements they are sending to work this out,
the period would of been over 5 years I kept going into unauthorised overdraft, they did admit they should of intervened on my account a lot sooner due to this .
i have declined the 300 pound offer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send this to FOS now, so you are in the queue.
And then when the ststements come settledown with a cup of coffee and a biscuit and spend a boring hours working through them. You can then tell FOS the numbers.
jamie says
Thank you , i will keep you posted. Can i use the fact when an affordability complaint is upheld with my bank can i use that example in other complaints with other companies or is each complaint completely separate?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Each complain is completely separate. You can mention it, but it has no direct bearing.
Daniel D says
Hi Sara / everyone. First, thanks for this brilliant resource, it’s so helpful and obviously making a lot of difference to many people.
I just have a general query on this subject. Has anyone successfully argued for recompense from credit card providers who allowed heavy gambling on their cards before the ban came in in 2020? My gambling on credit cards was out of control, totally disproportionate to my income. I’ve sorted out my problem now, but am wondering if I can retrospectively complain about these lenders, who made a fortune out of my addiction. I no longer have the card details for them sadly as the accounts are long since closed, but I guess that wouldn’t stop me approaching them.
I think the FOS has a six-month limit on complaints so I guess they wouldn’t get involved, which is a clear obstacle. But given that a law was changed to prevent this sort of lending, clearly it wasn’t responsible and many, many people should be due compensation?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated – thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes if you had your limit increased after the gambling was clearly a problem. This applies whether you asked for the increase or they just gave it to you – at that point they should have considered what they knew about your account and realised you were in difficulty and should not have increased the limit.
I think the FOS has a six-month limit on complaints
No it’s 6 years! not months!
And you can go back further than that if you can argue that you have onlt recently been aware that you had a cause to complain.
Daniel D says
Thanks Sara! I’ll have a think about it. It’s tricky because of how long ago it was – the accounts are all closed, I don’t have records etc. But I’ll definitely try and investigate. And I hope other people viewing this advice take action too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can get bank statements going back 6 years even from closed accounts. And your current credit report will also show a lot of what was happening from 2017-2020.
paul henney says
Managed to get an uphold from Lloyds due to increased overdraft at the time of gambling. Halifax have credited £100 today so I’m guessing no it’s some kind of gesture of goodwill and a declined complaint. Next step asking for dates of overdraft increase and transactions around those times.
JonnyZag says
I’m just looking for a bit of advice. Credit Card debt of around 7200 with Natwest (among other credit cards and loans all rung up during a long period of time as struggled with gambling).
DMP with Stepchange (over 1 year) and started making affordable payments to all my debts (which total over 40k).
Today I received an email stating:
I refer to the Financial Ombudsman Service’s investigation of your complaint about NatWest and your acceptance of the settlement offered. I have processed the associated compensation payment, totalling £634.56.
This was paid in to your credit card ending xxxx yesterday. Please accept my sincere apologies that this situation occurred and should you require further information, do not hesitate to contact me.
—
The card and account is closed and forwarded the debt collection agency. So what will happen to this refund? Naively I thought I would receive the refund to my own bank account, rather than directly on the card. I had wanted to use it to pay off debt, or approach Natwest or my other card and offer a full and final payment as settlement.
However I’m not sure what to do now. It’s been a long and emotional process and I’ve revealed a lot personal information about my circumstances over the last few months to Natwest and FOS. And the result was it looks this payment has just gone into the ether.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This debt is in your DMP?
JonnyZag says
Yes that’s correct. It’s in my DMP with Stepchange with all others.
I have asked natwest to confirm what’s happened as far I understood the debt was now with debt collection agency.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it should come off the debt total with StepChange.
JonnyZag says
Ok thanks.
MC says
Hi Sara,
I have ran up significant debt with credit cards, overdrafts and a loan through gambling.
I am not currently behind on any payments as I have often had to use more credit to keep on top of them.
I have created an account on StepChange and the advised solution is using a DMP.
If I use a DMP – how negatively would this affect my credit file? I have a mortgage, would a DMP affect my ability to change mortgage provider once my fix term deal ends? Would a DMP prevent me obtaining future credit for car finance, mobile phone contracts etc for a long period of time?
I am going to look into affordability complaints with all these credit facilities as the amounts of credit I have been able to use is irresponsible lending IMO, gambling transactions are visible on my bank statements and although I haven’t missed payments/defaulted that doesn’t necessarily mean I could afford these credit facilities looking at previous advice.
Finally – I have admitted I have a serious problem and I am getting the required help for this.
Many thanks,
MC
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are the debts that would go into a DMP?
How much do StepCHange suggest you pay each month to a DMP?
When does your mortgage fix end?
MC says
Debts = £36,820
£745 a month to DMP
Mortgage fix ends June
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So a DMP would take about 4 years if you are able to sustain those repayments, but they may need to be reduced after June as your mortgage costs will increase. Do you know how much that is likely to be?
How much are the minimum payments on the debts at the moment?
“If I use a DMP – how negatively would this affect my credit file?”
Yes a DMP will harm your credit record. Payment arrangements and then probably defaults will be added. S default is worse ofr your credit record but strangely it drops off your credit record sooner, 6 years after the deafult. A payment arrangement stays for 6 years after the debt is settled.
“I have a mortgage, would a DMP affect my ability to change mortgage provider once my fix term deal ends?”
If your current mortgage provider is a mainstrem lender (97% of the market) then you will be able to get a new fix from your current lender without any affordability or credit record checks, see https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mortgage-lenders-commitments-to-borrowers
A DMP would affect you ability change mortgage provider. But with 36k of unsecured debt you may well fail any affordability checks even if you do not have a DMP. If you are unsure, talk to a mortgage broker now about this.
“Would a DMP prevent me obtaining future credit for car finance, mobile phone contracts etc for a long period of time?”
A DMP isn’t a bar on getting more credit like insolvency such as an IVA is.
But a lender would be less likely to give credit or it may be more expensive. Phones dont tend to be a problem.
Car finance again may be a problem even if you do not have a DMP as you may fail any affordability checks.
With such large debts and your mortgage going up it would seem to be unlikely that you have any practical alternative to a DMP. Making payment arrangements with individual creditors would have the same effect on your credit record as a DMP (payment arrangements then defaults) and probably be a lot more hassle for you.
MC says
Many thanks for the advice
I will fix with current lender, quick look at the deals on offer and they are still competitive rates
I want to avoid a DMP in this case then. I will look to reduce the debt as quickly as possible by reducing other expenses and pay above the minimum payments wherever possible. Create extra income with overtime, secondary jobs if possible.
Not to ‘bank’ on it but as previously mentioned, there may be a case with irresponsible lending so could potentially save interest costs if successful
Thanks for your help!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I want to avoid a DMP in this case then.
I think you have misunderstood what I wrote.
If you only need a new fix with your current lender the, unless the lender is a bad credit lender, you do NOT need to avoid a DMP as your lender will NOT do an affordability check and will not looks at your credit record.
So in that case a DMP is very likely to be your best option, freezing the interest nd charges and letting you make an affordable payment.
Also you can make affordability complain a DMP – if you win one it will speed up the DMP a lot.
D hill says
Hi can I get a refund from borrowing money to gamble
Sara (Debt Camel) says
possible if you can argue that the lender should not have given you the credit as either it was unaffordable or that the lender should have realised you had a gambling problem. What sort of borroing was this?
MC says
Thanks Sara,
My first affordability complaint response:
“After assessing your application, I agree that the decision to approve your loan was irresponsible and further checks should have been made. As we agreed you should not have been offered the loan, you will only need to pay back the value of what has been given to you
You will not be making any payments towards the interest nor any payment greater than the funds you have been provided with. For Zopa to remove the interest we will default the contract as we are not able to remove interest any other way, but rest assure we will take the appropriate measures to ensure your credit file is not harmed.
Zopa will no longer report the loan agreement to the Credit Reference Agencies, and we will remove the loan from your credit file.
You can create a plan to your affordability with our Repayments Team, which will be reviewed periodically and should any plan you agree become unaffordable, this can be reviewed sooner upon your request.”
Q – Do I still have to pay this legally if it is to be removed from my credit file? I understand I can agree to pay a much more affordable monthly amount to clear the outstanding balance without incurring interest. Is it possible to achieve anything more by taking this to the FOS?
Many thanks,
MC
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes the loan has not been wiped and it is still enforceable. This is a “full refund” – it would be VERY VERY rare for the Ombudsman to say the loan should should be wiped.
If you have other affordability complaints as well, it is ESSEthat yo7 download. Copy of your credit record with this loan still showing on it as it may be needed in other complaints.
This is the second good result I have heard of direct from Zopa this week – how large was the loan?
MC says
Thanks,
Yes I have downloaded copy of credit record.
Loan was for 10k over 24m
J says
Hello Sara, I took out a loan with hsbc for £4,000, however I had problems with gambling depositing 100’s at a time (which I have now stopped) I was then able to take out a second loan for the same amount. I am currently paying these loans off. I used to transfer money from my hsbc to my Monzo account to make the deposit into the betting websites, do I have a case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
HSBC was also your bank?
J says
That’s correct HSBC is my main bank account
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So HSBC should have had a good sight of your finances.
If the gambling wasnt showing on the HSBC account, they shoud still have seen what looked like an unusual amount of transfers to your Monzo account.
Was there anything else on your credit record that should have suggested your finances were getting worse?
Jax says
Hi, I really want to make a complaint to my bank about a loan they gave me in 2017 even though they could see my shocking bank statements. They are still my bank now. I’m worried that they might close my account if I complain. Has anyone had this happen?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At the time you were given this loan, were there gambling transactions showing on your bank statement?
do you have an overdraft with them, if you do, how many days a month are you in it?
Jax says
Hi Sara, yes loads of gambling and using my overdraft within days of being paid and also exceeding the overdraft when they applied charges. They paid me back charges and interest on my overdraft about 18 months ago back to 2016 as a gesture of goodwill but said they had done nothing wrong.
Also, the APR on the loan was 22.9% so they must have thought I was a risk?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And do you still have an overdraft after the overdraft refund?
Jax says
Just 500 as it was reduced following the complaint. I don’t use it anymore.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that is a really common – and good! – outcome after an overdraft affordability complaint.
In this situation Nationwide have no reason to close your current account. I have never seen a bank try to take revenge in this way.
If you are very worried, you could open a new account now just in case. Chase has a nice app and pays cashback on debit card spending.
Jax says
Excellent, thanks Sara