UPDATE – 13 November 2014
In late October, an Appeal Court judgment said commission should be refunded in a much broader range of cases, not just discretionary motor finance. The FCA is now proposing to extend the pause on discretionary commission complaints to cover fixed commissions as well. See Car commission refunds – can more people get refunds? where I cover this in detail
UPDATE – 24 September 2024
Following a consultation in August, the FCA announced an extension to the timetable for car finance discretionary commission complaints:
- the FCA had originally intended to publish its review setting out next steps in September 2024. This has now been postponed until May 2025, because there is a challenge to the Ombudsman’s decisions on these cases. The Judicial Review of the Ombudsman decision is bein heard in October 2024 and the FCA hopes for a judgment by the end of 2024;
- this FCA review is likely to lead to new rules which the FCA will consult on. It will have finalised these by December 2025;
- finance lenders will then have to follow the new approach;
- because of these delays, consumers are who have made a complaint and received a Final Response from the car finance lender now have longer to take their case to the Ombudsman The FCA says “If you’re sent a final response between 12 July 2023 and 29 April 2025, you’ll now have until 29 July 2026 to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.”
UPDATE May 2024
See Car finance discretionary commission claims – update May 2024 which has a round up of recent news about these commission claims and looks at what, if anything, you should do now.
On 11 January 2024, the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) published several decisions about discretionary car finance commission, including one against Black Horse and one against Barclays Partner Finance.
In these cases, people were charged a higher interest rate to increase the commission the dealers got. And FOS ordered a refund.
This is a scandal that may have affected millions.
These FOS decisions open the way to a large number of claims for refunds from people who took out car finance before 28 January 2021. Martin Lewis says this may be “the new PPI”.
As a result, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) which regulates car finance lenders has taken the highly unusual step of pausing complaints about these commissions. It says:
It’s important that any complaints are dealt with by providers in a consistent, efficient and orderly way. Given the high number of possible complaints, there’s a risk this might not happen.
The FCA is now giving car finance companies longer to respond to complaints and allowing you longer to take your complaint to the Ombudsman.
Contents
Why refunds are being given
Discretionary commissions were unfair
Before 28 January 2021, it was common for some car finance lenders to allow a car dealer or broker to set the interest rate on a car finance agreement within a range. In this article, I just refer to the car dealer, not a broker, for short.
The dealer would get more commission from the car finance lender the higher the interest rate was. So they had an incentive to set your rate as high as they thought you might accept.
As the dealer chose the rate, this is called “discretionary commission”. This was not explained to the customers, so the commission is also called “undisclosed” or, in layman’s terms, “secret”.
These discretionary commissions were charged on a lot of car finance for both new and used cars. On 28 January 2021, the FCA banned this in car finance. So it isn’t a problem on recent contracts.
If you took out car finance before January 2021, you may have paid a higher interest rate than you should have.
This was unfair as:
- you were not told about it;
- if you had known, you may have negotiated to reduce it or looked to see if you could get finance at a lower rate;
- the dealer didn’t do any extra work to justify paying extra commission.
A typical Ombudsman refund decision
FOS issues key decisions when it wants them to be seen as typical of decisions the Ombudsman may take in similar cases.
This is what happened in the Black Horse case:
- the Ombudsman found that Black Horse was prepared to lend to Mrs Y at any flat interest rate between 2.49% and 5.5%, with any amount over 2.49% going to the dealer as commission;
- the broker had discretion over what rate to charge. It set the rate for Mrs Y at 5.5% – the highest it could. This got the dealer the most commission;
- the extra discretionary commission accounted for more than half of the interest that Mrs Y would have to pay;
- Mrs Y was not told how large this commission was, nor that the dealer had set the interest rate and the commission;
- the Ombudsman found that this was unfair.
To put this unfairness right, the Ombudsman ordered that:
- Mrs Y should only have been charged the minimum interest rate of 2.49% and the extra commission amount she was charged should be refunded;
- 8% per annum statutory interest should be added to the refund.
The Barclays Partner Finance case was very similar. The broker had discretion over what rate to charge and setting a higher rate increased the broker commission. FOS took the same decision to uphold the case and ordered the lender to pay a refund that was calculated in the same way as in the Black Horse case.
In other cases, customers may get more or less, depending on the range of interest rates a dealer was allowed to set and which rate the dealer picked. If a dealer was allowed to set an interest rate between say 3% and 10%, and you win your claim you would be likely to get a higher refund if you were charged 8% than if you were charged 5%.
No discretionary commission – then no claim
In a third case, against BMW Financial Services, FOS found that the broker was paid a fixed commission by the lender. The customer who bought the car was not told how large the commission was, but the paperwork stated that the broker did receive a fee. Here FOS decided that the commission was not unfair, because it could not be increased by the broker, and the case was not upheld.
If no discretionary commission was charged on your finance, there is no claim for you to make.
Could this apply to your car finance?
Three things to check
Three things matter:
UPDATE none of these three things may matter after recent Appeal Court case
- the finance must have started before 28 January 2021 (After that date discretionary commission was banned.)
- the sort of car finance You can make a claim about Hire Purchase (HP) or Conditional Sale (CS) or Personal Contract Purchase (PCP)any of these types of car finance. (You can’t make a claim for Personal Contract Hire (PCH), sometimes called car leasing. And you can’t if you arranged the loan with a bank and it was not secured on your car.)
- whether you were charged discretionary commission There is a list of lenders who have stated they have never changed this sort of commission below – if your lender is one of these, there is no point in asking. But if your lender is not on that list, you have to ask to find this out. This is the key first step in making a claim, and it is easy – see below.
What doesn’t matter:
- if you are still paying the finance, you finished paying for it or you defaulted;
- if you still have the car, if it has been sold, or repossessed;
- how easy it was to pay the finance. That is irrelevant – this is a complaint that you were charged too much, not that it was unaffordable.
The Ombudsman can look at cases going back six years, or it can go back much further if you have complained within 3 years of finding out that there was a problem. And this is probably the first time you have heard about this! If your car finance is very old, there may be a problem if the lender has not kept any paperwork about it. But many very old PPI claims were won, so don’t let a worry about this stop you from making a claim.
Lenders who have never used discretionary commission arrangements
I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this list – it is for guidance. The following lenders have made a clear statement that they have never used discretionary commission:
A – Admiral; Advantage Finance; AutoLend; AutoMoney;
B – Billing; Burnley Savings & Loans
C – Car Loan Centre; Carmoola
F – First Response Finance
G – Guardian Finance
L – Lendable; Lombard
M – Mallard Finance; Moneybarn
O – Oodle; Oplo
P – Premium Plan
R – RateSetter; Retail Money Market
S – Specialist Motor Finance
T – Tandem
V – Vehicle Credit
1st Stop Finance.
The above list includes many “bad credit lenders” – if you had finance from one of them, then read the section at the bottom of this article on whether you can make an affordability complaint.
Lenders who have sometimes used discretionary commission arrangements
I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this list – it is for guidance.
This list is based on the original FOS decisions and the replies that some people have received in response to their query about discretionary commission. As more people leave comments here about their replies, this list will no doubt get much longer…
B – Barclays Partner Finance; Black Horse; Blue Motor Finance, BMW
C – CA Auto finance; Close Brothers
H – Honda; Hitachi Capital
F – Ford
M – Marsh Finance; Mobilize, Moneyway; Motonovo
S – Santander; Startline; Stellantis
V – Vantage; VWFS.
If your finance was through one of these firms you still need to ask if there was any discretionary finance on your contract. Just because a lender sometimes used it doesn’t mean they always did.
How to make a claim
Make an initial enquiry
Originally I had a template here. Now I suggest you use the MSE free tool. This will be updated for the recent Appeal Court ruling
There may be a delay before you get a reply
Normally a firm should respond within 8 weeks or you could send it to the Ombudsman.
But the FCA says:
We’re assessing the extent of the problem to make sure that, if you are owed compensation, you get it in the best way possible.
And as part of this, the FCA is allowing firms longer to respond to these complaints. And you are also allowed longer to send your complaint to the Ombudsman. It is still good to start the process now, but it may take a while.
You may get one of the following types of reply back;
- we don’t have to answer this for at the moment as the FCA has allowed us to pause complaint handling
- we don’t any records because of the age of your finance
- we have never used discretionary finance
- no discretionary finance was used in your case
- a description of the commission arrangement that was unclear or difficult to understand about whether discretionary finance was used
- discretionary finance was used.
If you could leave a comment below this article, this will help build a picture of who is most likely to be able to make a claim.
You do NOT need to use a claims company
You don’t need a claims company to do this or a firm of solicitors. It is simple to do yourself and a claims company will take a very large amount of any refund that you get.
It will not be quicker to do with a claims company or solicitors. They don’t have lists of who has valid claims, they will ask the same question that you can. Nor will you get more compensation that way.
IMPORTANT could you also make an affordability complaint?
These undisclosed commission complaints are not the same as affordability complaints.
But if your car finance was very hard to pay from the beginning, it may have been “unaffordable”. You may have had to get behind with other debts or borrowed more in order to be able to pay the car finance.
Here you may be able to win an affordability complaint – see Were you sold a car on unaffordable car finance? for details and how to make an affordability complaint.
NB it can be hard to win an affordability complaint unless you have good evidence about your finances at the time the finance started, such as bank statements. These are easy to get for the last 6 years even if you have changed bank accounts. But a long way back can be tricky even if you are still with the same bank. This issue isn’t relevant for discretionary commission complaints, only affordability.
If you win an affordability complaint you will get all the interest refunded. In a discretionary commission complaint you only get part of it back.
So I suggest you make the affordability complaint first. Because if you win you will get a larger refund. And affordability complaints are likely to be quicker than discretionary commission complaints. If you lose, you can then revisit the undisclosed commission complaints later.
Any questions?
Ask them in the comments below! These claims are very new, so finding out what other people are doing and the sorts of responses they get can be a great help.
Car finance affordability complaints
How to ask for refunds for all types of debt
My energy DD can’t be right!
Steve says
Hi Sara,
I’ve recently finished paying back Moneybarn for a 5 year finance agreement and put in an affordability complaint towards the end due to my circumstances at the time of being given the finance (DMP, low income) – I ended up paying around £12k for a £7k vehicle, the interest rates were extortionate but I was desperate at the time and not quite so financially savvy!
Unfortunately, moneybarn rejected the affordability complaint, so this then went to the ombudsman. As I was paying my rent at the time cash in hand, my statements didn’t fall in my favour and the ombudsman ruled that as id also never missed a payment, the agreement was affordable.
I just chalked it up as a loss until I saw this story come up in the news today.
I’ve contacted Moneybarn with your template email to find out if discretionary commission was involved – can’t hurt to try, I suppose!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Let us know what Moneybarn say!
Danny C says
I had a very similar circumstance Steve.
I bought a car via Moneybarn for £14.5k and ended up paying £25k for it in total! :(
I’ve also contacted Moneybarn with the template on the page to find out if discretionary commission was involved.
ian Purser says
Can anything be claimed against The Funding Corporation as i paid nearly £15000 for a 5000 car
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My first thought with such an expensive loan is whether it was actually affordable for you – did making the payments cause you a lot of difficulty? If it did, then have a look first at making an affordability complaint, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/unaffordable-car-finance/. If you win that you would get all the interest refunded – in a discretionary commission claim you will only get part back.
But if you feel the finance was affordable, or you don’t win that complaint, then ask TFC if you paid discretionary car finance.
The email for complaints is matt.caven@smfmotor.com
Ben says
Hi Sara, very interesting. So if I had the details of something older than 6 years I could still make a claim for it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can – because you will be complaining within 3 years of fining out that you had a reason to complain.
You don’t need all the original paperwork – this “discretionary finance” isn’t mentioned on any of that,mwhich is why it is so unfair.
Caroline. says
Thank you for this information Sara, I made an affordability complaint against Specialist Motor Finance last year and the claim was rejected, referred to the Ombudsman who also rejected the claim. I had to sell the car at a reduced price (was only allowed to sell to a dealer) to clear the Finance.
I will be contacting SMF today to request the information above. Will let you know their response.
Melissa Smith says
I’ve been driving for 10 years. Got my first car in 2014 and all my cars have either been on PCP or HP.
I know the dealership I got the cars from but no idea who the finance was through. How do I go about finding out?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The name of the lender should show on your credit record, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to get free reports.
It would also be on the car finance documents.
Or you can ask the dealership.
G says
Exactly the same as me I’ve sent a email.. Waiting for a response.
Lynn says
Hi Sara, do you have email addresses for Fiat financial services and Northridge finance please. Thanks for your help. Lynn
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Fiat – try customer-relations@ca-autobank.com and put Fiat discretionary commission as the subject of your email.
Northridge – how long ago was this agreement?
Lynn says
Thanks Sara, May 2019, Lynn
Sara (Debt Camel) says
try northridgecomplaints@northridgeuk.com
Lynn says
Thanks for your help, much appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Use onlinecomplaints@lloydsbank.co.uk
Put Black Horse discretionary commission as the title.
Nicola Bain says
Hi
I can’t get this email address for blackhorse to work?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what has happened, has it bounced back?
Nicola Bain says
It says its not valid and I’ve double checked it’s correct
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your email program won’t let you send it as it’s not a valid address?
Or you have sent it and received a message saying it can’t be delivered?
Or you have sent it and received some other message saying it isn’t the correct email address?
Nicola Bain says
My email program says its invalid so I can’t send it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you clicking on the link? Copying it in? Typing it in? It looks normal to me and No one else has reported a problem with this.
Nicola Bain says
It won’t let me copy it so I typed it in. Maybe I’ll try on my laptop
Deborah massie says
Hi,
I read the article about the discretionary payments on car finance . I had a complaint with Financial ombudsman and it was rejected as my car finance was taken out in 2016 and they said it was too old by 6 months of my complaining about interest rates . My finance provider was specialist motor finance and I felt the interest rates were too high which lead me into financial difficulties. Would this now mean that I may be able to reopen this case or would it still be deemed as past time . I just thought with the new info from the 11th Jan with them upholding I may be able to tackle this again.?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can’t reopen your old affordability complaint. But you can start a new complaint about discretionary commission as the above article says. This new type of complaint is much less likely to be decided to be “too old” by the Ombudsman as these complaints have only just started so you will be complaining within 3 years of knowing that you have a reason to complain.
Deborah says
Hi ,
Thank you for your reply,
Looking at my finance agreement it says I paid an interest rate of 35.75% but then it has APR 39.9% why do I have two different interest rates . Sorry I have never really understood this . My interest it says is actually more than the car I bought.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The APR takes account of any extra fees as well as the interest.
Arran Morrison says
Hi Sara,
Do you have any contact details for RCI Financial Services, I bought a brand new Renault Clio aged 19 in 2008 (maybe 07). Eventually went on to extend the finance at the end of the initial term to keep the car, which I then defaulted on and the car repossessed.
Not sure if it would fall under the leasing category though as I have no paperwork left from back then.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
RCI is now called Mobilize. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-lenders-email-addresses/ for their email address.
It is unlikely that you had a lease as that usually required a very good credit record.
Arran Morrison says
Thank you, email sent.
Not expecting a positive outcome with how long ago it was, but nothing ventures nothing gained. As they say.
Kim Scotland says
How do I find out what kind of finance I took out? We’ve taken a few cars from the dealer on finance in the last 12 years, some new some used, but I’m not sure whether they were HP, CS, PCP or PCH
Sara (Debt Camel) says
HP is the normal form of car finance. CS is a minor variation of HP where the difference is insignificant. PCP is a variation of HP where there is a very large “balloon” payment at the end. Whioch of these you have doesnt matter for the purpose of making a claim about discretionary commission.
Leasing is like renting a car – you are not buying it and at the end it is handed back. It normally requires a very good credit record.
John B says
Hi can i ask a quick question please. I took out car finance in 2020 from carfinance247 with an interest rate of 19.9%, however the actual loan comes from specialist car finance. i was just wondering who to contact to ask about the discretionary interest rate thing?
thanks
john
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can ask either firm. My preference is to ask the lender, specialist Car finance
Sam says
Hello Sara, thank you for this article!
I have tried the email for Barclays partner finance but doesn’t seem to be working- do you know another email for them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I now have a new address that should work bpfcomplaints@barclays.com
Liam says
Hi Sara,
I had a completed agreement with Barclays Partner Finance (through Arnold Clark). I don’t suppose you have an email contact to request information or a contact number as unfortunately my email address and address has changed since the agreement. Any information will be grateful.
Thanks again,
Liam
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is an email for them in my list here https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-lenders-email-addresses/
Beth McLeish says
I tried this email address for First Response Finance but got a bounce back johnf@frfl.co.uk
Sara (Debt Camel) says
try john.bates@frfl.co.uk
I will update my list with that one
Beth McLeish says
Thank you for your help, much appreciated.
Jonathan Mark Austin says
Hi, My car finance was with Welcome Finance, as it was winded up am I able to claim?
Thanks
Jon Austin
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You may also be able to claim against the dealer? But how long ago was this?
Shannon says
I had 3 car finances, one with FCE Bank 2016 – 2019, one with RCI Financial 2019 – 2021 and another one 2015 – 2016 but I cannot find this one on any of my reports but I think it would be Ford Credit? Within that time I had to get a loan to try consolidate credit cards and debt, would this be a factor towards unaffordable? Is it just worth sending the affordability one first? Not quite sure what I need to find out regarding interest etc?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FCE Bank is, I think, Ford’s credit arm.
Getting a consolidation loan doesn’t in general suggest that credit was unaffordable. Unless it was a very high rate of interest. Do you have bank statements going back to that period? That can often be the nest evidence about affordability.
Shannon says
Yes I have the bank statements, but just realised the loan was to cover the end payment so wouldn’t count. Should I just send the template to the finance companies about the interest to chance it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was your financial situation like at that time? Was your credit record poor? Did you have an increasing amount of debt? Why don’t you have a look at your bank statements and see what they show? There is little point in making an affordability complaint if you don’t Feel sure that the credit you are complaining about caused you significant problems.
Alex says
Hi, please can you help in getting an email address for Ford UK Finance? I took out a PCP with Ford in January 2018 and would like to know if I am entitled to compensation.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have added one into the list of car finance lenders emails, link in article above..
Susan Ellis says
Hi Sara,
First I have heard of this scandal, thank you for your email.
I have had three cars on HP since 14th June 2019, all now sold and settled with Black Horse. Would it be wise for me to email the information I have on all three agreements separately to Black Horse?
I look forward to your advice
Sue
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good that you have the info, but I don’t see any need to email it all to them. I would just ask BH if there were any discretionary commission arrangements on any of these three loans – and give some reference number for each.
Andy says
Hi Sara
Is there any specific time frame that you can go back to?
I’ve had finance arranged:
2009 to 2014 – Advantage Finance (dates are per old credit report – No longer have paperwork, destroyed it after a FOS ppi claim was upheld)
2014 to 2017 – Peugeot Finance (rate 4.65%)
2017 to 2020 – Peugeot Finance (rate 2.90%)
2020 to current – Alphera Finance (7.90%)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No there is no specific starting point. The further back the less likely there is to be much evidence, but you can ask the lenders.
SM says
Two complaints submitted, one HP with Toyota finance and the other with BMW finance on a PCP. When negotiating both purchases with the dealership, I remember both sales agents speaking with their managers to reduce the finance costs. I will post any updates when they arrive.
Rachel says
Hi, I had a Fiat and ‘Network’ shows on my bank statement for finance payments – are they known as something else?
I also had a Mini and ‘Mini Financial Services’ shows on my statement – do they go by another name?
I can’t see either on your email list.
Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you had a look at a credit report to see if the name of the lenders are on there? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to get free reports.
Rachel says
Hi Sara, just checked, both were BMW – one says BMW Financial Services Ltd and the other says BMW Finance – I’m assuming both of these fall under Alphera (BMW) from your list? ☺️
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That would be my guess but the simple way to find out if it’s correct is to ask Alphera
Rachel says
Perfect, thank you so much for your help!!
Lee says
Hi Sara, I had a car from Car giant back in 2010 which was funded by Moto Novo. After i purchased the car and talking to family members i pretty quickly, talking 6 months to a year, took a cheaper loan out with another lender to pay off the original loan with MotoNovo after obtaining a full and final settlement proposal from MotoNovo . Would i still be able to claim on this with MotoNovo??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to find out if there was any discretionary commission charged on this loan. If there was then there is the potential for some refund.
Allison says
Hi Sara
Thank you for this – really helpful!
Do you have an email for Northridge Finance by any chance? Can’t see one in the list. I had car finance with them from 2019-2023.
Many thanks
Allison
Sara (Debt Camel) says
try northridgecomplaints@northridgeuk.com
Thomas says
Hi Sara. I have a car finance agreement with Moneybarn. I’m also in an IVA. Would any compensation be payable to the arrangement? I was told the interest rate was high because I was in an IVA.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long until your IVA finishes? How long until the car finance finishes and when did it start?
Tracey says
Hi Sara I have a car on PCP finance from Alphera finance commenced 1st July 2020 car deale4ship is Arnold Clark is it worth asking Alphera, many thanks, Tracey
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have no idea if Alphera used this sort of commission and the only way to find out is to ask.
Tracey says
Thank you I will use your email template
Debbie says
My son used Alphera and remembers walking away from the dealer because of the high APR….he then managed to magically lower it so I’m guessing they probably do. This wasnt with Arnold Clarke though but was also July 2020.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That does sound like discretionary commission! Your son may still have been overcharged though, he should ask.
BW says
Hi Sara,
I had a previous finance in approx 2008 from Arnold Clark but no idea who this would’ve been with, and I can’t see this far back on my credit history. How would I look into finding this info out? Many thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could ask the dealer. I don’t know if they would still have records.
BW says
Eventually found it, it was with Santander, I’ve sent off an email! Thank you
Beth McLeish says
Just to update anyone with First Response Finance, they have clarified that they have never operated a Discretionary Commission Arrangement.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok! Now that is clear.
C says
Hi, I have an agreement with CLS Finance but they are in administration and i was refused by the fca to investigate unaffordable lending because of this, am I still able to claim?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I doubt it. Who was the dealer you bought the car from? You may have a possible claim against them – when did the agreement start?
C says
The agreement started in 2018, we had one car that was totalled from one dealer then insurance paid it off then we got another in 2019 through cls again from another dealer, I can’t remember which one now
Judith says
Would this affect touring caravan finance with black horse ? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know. I think you should ask BH if discretionary commission was included in your contract.
Frances Jowett says
Hi Sara, this is really useful thanks, do you have an email address for Kia motors finance?
and a hyundai email address too
Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is possible they are both the same lender, Hyundai Capiital … try contactus@uk.hcs.com
Debbie says
Brilliant article. Would you happen to know who Hyundai use at all please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
try contactus@uk.hcs.com
Debbie says
Thanks Sara. I’m passing your article onto everyone I know!
Peter says
How far can you go back with these ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That isn’t clear – how long ago were your contracts?
Peter says
I had one in 2020 from 24/7 car finance and the loan was given through Alphera which is BMW.
Also had Arnold Clarke through Lloyd’s UDT around 1999 which I am thinking is far too old.
Sounds like it’s been a very profitable business for some. Thanks for the information, very much appreciated, great article.
Peter says
Can I ask, if a refund is due, who is responsible for this, would it be the broker (24/7 car finance) who pocketed the extra commission, or the finance company (BMW Alphera) who loaned the money?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Ombudsman decisions say the lender should refund the extra interest charged.
Zoe Brown says
Hello, I arranged finance with moneybarm via credit plus. Credit plus found the car and arranged the sale with the dealership. I was told due to only having the option of moneybarn I couldn’t negotiate the car price etc. on collecting the car the garage said I could have got a much better rate through them and they stated they had told credit plus this who had said not to worry and go with what they had proposed to me. They also said credit plus had added loads of additional costs to the overall figure which were unnecessary. Had I not travelled several miles by train by myself to collect the car I would have ended the agreement but was stranded and needed the car so just went along with it. Should I therefore be complaining to creditplus the broker that arranged the finance or Moneybarm that supplied the finance? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you first ask Moneybarn if there was discretionary commission in your agreement.
John Nicholl says
Hi, we took out pcp through Audi, is there an email for them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think that is VWFS – email in the list linked to in the article above
M Nicholson says
Hi,
I had finance with Motonovo and they charged me 8.75% interest per annum.
I also had finance with Mann Island and they have charged me 10.55% per annum.
Have I been paying over the odds and are these 2 companies also going to be investigated as well as Blackhorse?
Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The individual companies aren’t going to be investigated so far as I know. Unless the FCA comes out with a very different arrangement, it will be up to borrowers like yourself to make a claim for a refund.
You don’t know enough to be able to do that now – so take the first step and ask Motonovo and Mann Island if there was any discretionary commission on your finance. The template to use is in the article above and the email addresses are in the page that is linked to.
Marianne says
Thanks Sara. I also had finance with Blackhorse well over 10 years ago. I have emailed all 3 finance companies anyway just to see if I get a favourable response.
Hannah says
Hi, please can you advise the necessary email address for Suzuki finance? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s onlinecomplaints@lloydsbank.co.uk
Put Suzuki Finance discretionary commission as the title of the email
Sam says
Is there an email address for Fiat Financial Services / FCA Automotive please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need the address for CA Automotive – it’s in the list on the page of addresses liked to
Shirley Erangey says
Hi Sara
Had finance with Paragon car finance
Do you have a email ?
Will use the template
Car finance was from July 2017- july 2022
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
robert.mclean@paragonbank.co.uk
Shirley Erangey says
Many thanks I used the email I received from my final payment in July 2022
If I do not hear back will use this one
Thank you for your help
Shirley
Christine says
Hi , I had car finance from 2002-2006 I don‘t have the registration number anymore but have given all the other relevant details. It was with Blackhorse . Does my claim has a chance ,? it would also be an affordability complaint since I was only working part time
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have not seen an affordability complaint of this sort won that started before 2007. Unless you have bank statements for 2002 I don’t think this is worth trying.
At the moment we don’t know if there is a starting date for discretionary commission claims. Nor if BH will still have any documentation about this. Let us know what BH say.
Christine says
Hi,
Would my bank still have any statements from 2002-2004? I know they are only kept normally for 7years but is there a chance ? And would me finding the the registration help ? The car was repossessed in 2006 due to the high repayments at the time. It wasn’t an expensive car but I had to pay £375 pcm
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You would have to ask the bank. It isn’t impossible if you are with the same bank but it may not be likely. I have had seen literally thousands of affability complaints and I have never seen one won for so long ago.
re the discretionary commission complaint. There is no experience to go on of how far back these can be made. You first step is to ask the lender if any discretionary commission was charged on your contract. If they say they have no records at all for theta period or that no discretionary interest was charged at that time, this will not work. If they say they cannot locate your agreement without more information, I am guessing that registration number may help.
jane Green says
Hi.
I had Blackhorse finance from 2007-2011 for a car. I was charged 13.8% interest and at no time told about discretionary commision.
I have every document filed away from when I took my finance out. Nothing telling you on any of them.
I rang Blackhorse and was given the following number to ring which is the dedicated line for this 08000224844.
I have now answered some questions with the advisor, been given a reference number and will receive an acknowledgement letter in 5-7 days and an outcome by 8 weeks according to the advisor.
I also have this email address for any further info I may want to send,for example pics of my contract, It is the following email BHComplexComplaints@blackhorse.co.uk.
Does anyone advise that I should email the original contract for them to see as it gives them the chance to see written evidence of my complaint.
Hope this telephone number is also helpful for others :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Thanks for that information!
Did the advisor say anything that suggested they do not still have a copy of the contract?
Do you have anything that shows when the final payment was made?
jane Green says
I have the final statements, a letter to verify it is all paid, the pre contract and contract, I am one of those that keeps everything lol.
The advisor found me under the loan number from 09/2007.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sometimes it’s good to be a squirrel!
I suggest you tell BH that you have all this information if they need it.
P W says
Hi I had a car from cartime.co.uk finance from startling finance company was on 18/07/2020 interest rate was 15.70% apr was 16.9%
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is certainly a startling interest rate, but did you mean Startline? or Starling?
P W says
Yes sorry startline finance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, there is an email address on the email page for them for a query about discretionary commission.
Have the payments been hard to make? How far through the finance are you
P W says
Had to give car up could not afford it £377 a month aim on universal credit
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if it was very difficult right from the start, you should consider making an affordability complaint. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/unaffordable-car-finance/
Mike says
I had finance taken out with Arnold Clark who arranged it with Auto Bank Finance part of PSA Finance UK between 2018-2022. I’ve emailed ukcustomerservices@psa-finance.com to see if any commission was included
Sam says
Hi Sara,
I currently have a complaint against Moneybarn with the Ombudsman. Im not confident I will win as it was just over 6 years ago. Should I wait for the verdict on this before sending a request for discretionary commision?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it’s tricky to start two complaints very close together – they can get mixed up and as the discretionary commission one may go slow you don’t want the affordability complaint to be affected by that.
But in your case they would be totally separate and can’t possible be mixed up. I think you can ask MB now if you want
Of course if you win the affordability complaint then you just drop the commission complaint.
Sam says
Lovely, thank you Sara.
Will let you know how it’s going.
Thanks
Andi says
What happens if the finance company states that there was no discretionary car finance commission?
How can we challenge it, what do we need to look for or is that it once they say no then we have to take it that they are telling the truth?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have they said this? Who?
Or are you just anticipating them lying?
Andi says
Anticipation from Advantage Finance.
Throughout the length of the agreement they did nothing but lie, stating calls / emails never took place (I originally told them I had a laptop failure and lost all emails but forgot about a pst auto saving to Dropbox 🤣)
*Thet tried to take the car off me after paying the full agreement because I had an outstanding balance of £128 for something that was not stated in the signed agreement.
*Told me a person who I was dealing with over PPI never existed
*Stated PPI didn’t exist on the agreement when it clearly stated the premium amount each month.
It took FOS less than 3weeks to uphold my complaint (2015 – those where the days of quick turnaround)
So yeah I think they’d lie through their teeth
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sounds delightful. I’m not surprised you are suspicious but let’s take this a step at a time. These are very new complaints with no track record at the moment.
Andi says
Well that was quick.
Email received today from Advantage Finance “It has never used any form of Discretionary Commission Arrangement and has never allowed the broker to influence the interest rate for any potential customer”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you are probably sceptical…
What I suggest you do now is make a note in your diary for 3,6 and 9 months time and pop back to this article to see if there has been any update from the FCA. A lot of things may be clearer at that point. This is a long shot…
Daniel says
Hi Sara,
I have emailed Barclays PF about the Discretionary Commission Agreement from an agreement from 07/08; but I have been looking through your website and seen about affordability complaints.
I feel that the same agreement was unaffordable for me, so I can complain about both at the same time? Or wait until the DCA response is finalised first?
Thanks
Dan
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It isn’t impossible to win an affordability complaint from 2008 but it can be very difficult. Do you have your bank statements from 2008? If you are still with the same bank, you can ask if it is possible to get them.
(This sort of problem won’t arise with discretionary commission claims as there is no need to prove unaffordability there.)
Zoe Butta says
Hi, the car finance company who I took out my car finance with are no longer. I took out a car on finance over 5 years and they disappeared at about year 4. Can I still claim?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was the name of the finance company? What dealer did you buy the car from?
Zoe Butta says
The car finance company 2007 and the dealership was really easy car credit based in Newcastle.
Zoe Butta says
The car finance company 2007 and the dealership was really easy car credit near newcastle
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes it has been liquidated. Ask the car dealership about the commission.
Zoe Butta says
The dealership has also been dissolved
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case there may be nowhere you can go to make a claim.
Jean Thomas says
Hi
How far can you go back? I’ve had finance with
blackhorse
PCF bank
Northridge
Money way
Motonovo
Should I just send them all an email? I’ve only just read about this today
My bank statements go back to 2017 and it was
Money way
PCF Bank
Northridge and I’m with Blackhorse just now
Yes we change our car too often
This is the first car we have had on pcp all the others were hp
Cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So PCP or HP makes no difference, both the same for these commission claims.
Bank statements don’t matter – they only matter for affordability complaint. With a commission claim you don’t have to show the loan was unaffordable.
It isn’t clear how far you can go back, these claims are very new. I would saend them all an enquiry asking about discretionary commission.
PS It does look like you change you car a lot. You will end up better off if you can stop doing that!
Jean Thomas says
Hi My hubby gets bored of cars he’s a nightmare
I did get a response from John Bates at first response
They have never operated a discretionary commission or arrangement
Sara (Debt Camel) says
One off the list.
Your husband needs to grow up if he doesn’t want to spend his life make car dealers and finance companies rich :)
Jean Thomas says
So after sending all my emails
I’ve had a response from motonovo for me to confirm car and registration number
They’ve not said whether they are involved in this or not so will keep you updated
We also received a letter from moneyway for a refund of £306 and it says there was an error in interest calculated on my final settlement figure
The girl doesn’t think its to do with discretionary commission but wasn’t 100% sure she said they had an audit done and found people dating back 10 years had made overpayments
Laura mcerlean says
Hello my car finance was through seat finance
Do you know an email address for them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
try the VW address on the page I have linked to
dawn wright says
wondering how far back you can go – I had car finance over 4 years back in 98, I did win the PPI claim against the company as I was in the forces at the time so did not need the cover. It was affordable but I do wonder if they took a higher commission rate that they should due to them miselling the PPI as they knew at the time I was in the forces as it was a tax free car.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At the moment no one knows. I have not heard any suggestions that this sort of discretionary commission occured that long ago, but the only way for you to find out is to ask.
dawn wright says
cheers – worth an email
Tom says
Hi Sara,
I won an affordability claim against Moneybarn in 2022 for a car bought in 2020 and was provided with a refund. Is this discretionary commission something I am able to do in addition to that, or will it have already been factored in to my refund?
Kind regards,
Tom
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You would have had a full refund of interest paid (or a reduction in payments to a fair value.) That means you won’t have lost out if MoneyBarn had set the interest too high – there is nothing for you to try to claim back.
Anita says
Hi Sara,
Is Blue Motor Finance on the list?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
they are on my list of email addresses.
At this point there is no list of which lenders never used this discretionary commission, which sometimes did, which usually did between these dates, or any other information
Rafal says
Hi Sarah, I had a car finance from the company which doesn’t trade any more. The lender was called:
The Car Finance Company
47-51 Kingston Crescent
Portsmouth
PO2 8AA
Their website is being redirected to GCC Servicing ( Arrow Global). All emails sent to either The Car Finance Company or Arrow Global are being returned as undelivered. Do you know how they can be contacted?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Companies House shows 2 firms with very similar names and that address, one of which was dissolved in 2016 and the other in 2019.
you could ask the dealer you bought the car from if there had been any discretionary commission on you finance.
Kirby says
Hi, I have just came across this very interesting read, I had car finance when I was younger by The Car Finance Company yet I can’t seem to find anything on them anymore, could they have changed names? As I am pretty sure i could get this and I have some emails stating iv missed payments due to getting the finance when I didn’t have enough money.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have the full name of the company?
Kirby says
Hi, yes it was
The Car Finance Company, 47-51 Kingston Crescent
Portsmouth
PO2 8AA
Thanks x
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There were two companies with similar names registered at that address. Both dissolved several years ago.
I suggest you ask the dealer what commission was paid and whether this included and discretionary element.
lorraine Phillips says
Hi I have emailed startline with your draft email and they have confirmed The commission paid to the credit broker for the above agreement was £ 1,859.16.
What do I need to do next
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back and ask if this affected the interest rate you were charged and whether the broker had any discretion to set the interest rate within a range.
AQ says
Hello Sara,
Couple of question can I ask motonovo about discretionary commission as my agreement started before 28th of January 2021 and why/what there is a huge difference between APR and Interest Rate. Thank you
Outstanding balance £7,365.25
Arrears £0.00
Payments missed0
Deposit or part exchange amount £348.00
Next payment amount £294.57
Next payment date20 January 2024
Agreement Start date 20 January 2021
Agreement End date 20 January 2026
Final payment amount £295.57
APR: 16.9%
Interest Rate 9.0%
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, but I don’t think the difference in the rates has anything to do do with discretionary commission
nicola says
Hi, i have just emailed Blackhorse with the fianance details, but realised it was for my caravan, not car, does this mean im not eligible for this claim? Also I noticed it just says Blackhorse & Barclays, I have had car finance with Peugeot and Nissan and wondered If i could contact them too?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know if this applies to caravan finance – asking is a good idea.
yes you can look at claims about the other car finance.
Tim says
Hi
Just jumping on the discretionary commission thing.
I currently have hire purchase agreement pre with oodle finance for approximately £18800 for a £12600 car at 18.1apr. Purchased in 2019.
I had a flick through oodles website and there’s a statement from them regarding this matter stating that they never charge discretionary commission to its customers. Yet a quick flick through my contract, it states ‘We may pay commission or other remuneration to the supplying dealer, credit broker or other intermediary who introduces you to us.’
So is oodle not entirely telling the truth here and is it worth pursuing a claim??
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have had a look at their website and it is quite clear that they have never used this sort of discretionary commission arrangement. I see no reason to think that isn’t the truth. You could pop back here in 6 months or a year to see if there have been any developments but for now I suggest this is not worth pursuing.
Amanda says
I have had pcp with Citroen since before 2021 originally it was with PSA but last year changed to Stellantis, which company would I email my claim to?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you contact Stellantis and ask them.
Brian says
Hi Sara,
Does this only apply to finance that has been arranged through a dealership? Could there be a case against car finance brokers as well under this FCA case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it would apply whenever the lender allowed a third part to set the interest rate within a range and as a result to receive more commission. So dealerships or brokers potentially. I don’t know how common this was in rather case that’s why you need to ask if your finance was affected.
Brian Healy says
Thanks, I know I bought one car from Arnold Clark a few years ago through their finance. Although I had finance in place already they placed me with an alternative who changed my rate on the day I went to collect the keys.
I’ve also had finance arranged through CF247 and Zuto. I’d imagine these would be classed as ‘dealers’?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you ask the dealers/brokers they should be able to tell you who the lenders were
Brian Healy says
One was with British Credit Trust who longer exist.
One was with PCF (PCFG at the time)
One was with Moneybarn.
One was with Marsh Finance.
I have contacts for the last two but not the first two.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
BCT seems to have gone a long time ago. You can try asking the dealer or any broker you can remember being involved whether there as any discretionary commission..
Email address for PCF has been added to my list.
Moneybarn have a clear statement on their website that they have never used discretionary commission.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could consider if you could win any affordability complaint eg against Moneybarn. Affordability complaints are easier if they are made within 6 years from the finance starting.
anon says
Had a PCP deal with Fiat financial services (FCA Group – Fiat Chrysler Automobiles), if I contact them how do you know they will be honest if the discretionary commission was included? Do you have an email address please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The regulator is very interested in this commission issue. I think it’s unlikely a lender will not be honest with you.
Try the email for CA Autobank – if they say the finance wasn’t with them, try Stellantis