My article on credit card affordability explains when you should make a complaint and has a free template letter to use.
Some people have two credit cards from the same lender. Or two catalogue accounts from the same lender.
The most common lenders this affects are:
- Newday – brand names include Aqua, Marbles and Fluid;
- Capital One – some people have been given two Capital One cards. Others also have an Ocean Finance card, which is issued by Capital One;
- Vanquis – also uses the brand name Thimbl;
- JD Williams – brand names include Fashion World, Jacomo, Simply Be, Premier Man;
- Shop Direct – uses the Very and Littlewoods brand names
- Freemans – also uses the Grattan, Curvissa, Look Again and Kaleidoscope brand names.
So how does this affect a claim if you have two cards or accounts from the same lender to complain about?
It can make it easier to complain about the second card
The card issuer should have taken into account what it already knows about your credit card usage when it decided to give you a second – or third or more – card.
It can help if you remember which card you had first. Looking at your credit report will often show this.
So if you had an Aqua card first, and it had a large balance and you were only making minimum payments, that would suggest that Newday should not have given you a Marbles or Fluid card.
One example:
One reader got an Aqua card in 2018 and was then given a Fluid card a few years later. At that point her Aqua card was maxed out and she had three other credit cards with very high utilisation. The Fluid card had a low limit at the start, but Newday then increased it several times.
Make a single complaint about both cards
Don’t make two separate complaints, make one complaint covering both cards. You want the lender to look at the combined situation.
In some situations, a credit limit of £300 on a new Fluid card may have been reasonable as it is intended as a credit builder card
But in the example above, the borrower had an Aqua card and was using almost all of the large limit. So Newday should have seen she was only making minimum payments and she was using the Aqua card for essentials such as food and petrol. In that situation they should not have given her a second card at all.
The borrower here should ask for a full refund of all the interest and charges on the second card as it should never have been given.
If the lender only replies about one account
Sometimes lenders don’t seem to read a complaint properly. They spot the word affordability and the name of a card and don’t read the rest of it. Then you may get a response which only talks about one of the cards and ignores the other.
If this happens to you, go back to the lender and ask for a full response covering both cards.
Going to the ombudsman?
Lenders often reject good claims or make a poor offer. Make sure you read the section in How to get refunds from catalogues and credit cards about partial settlements. Because sometimes this can turn out to be a much lower refund than you might expect.
If the lender makes a satisfactory response on one card but not on the other, you can tell the lender that you accept their decision for one account and will go to the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) for the other.
The Ombudsman’s online form is the simplest way to send FOS a complaint. In this explain that you complained to the lender about cards X and Y, and which complaints you want FOS to look at. This could be both of them or just one, eg you were happy with their response about X but not about Y, so you want FOS to look into the Y account you were given as it was unaffordable.
Tell the Ombudsman about your borrowing from this lender
Make it clear to the ombudsman what the sequence of borrowing was. This doesn’t have to be in detail – FOS will get all the dates from the lender – but just give the big picture.
Here are a couple of examples:
- I had had card X for several years, only making minimum payments and my balance increased, then I got card Y in 2019. At that point I think the lender should have seen I was already struggling with card X. I was close to the card limit and only making the minimum payments. My credit record would have shown my increasing debt levels. I don’t think I should have been given card Y and my situation was so bad that at that point I think the lender should have offered me forbearance on card X as well.
- I opened these two accounts in 2017. At the start it was manageable. But the lender offered me increases on both accounts and soon making the monthly payments was difficult. There was no chance of me clearing the balances. I think this was irresponsible. The lender should have realised that I was already in difficulty and offered me forbearance on both accounts, not increased my credit limit without checking it was affordable.
When can you get a default deleted?
Could a Debt Relief Order help you?
Car finance affordability complaints
Andrew says
Would this post also apply to Barclays? I had both a forward and platinum account for sometime with them. The forward account is now closed.
Barclays remain my main banking provider as this is who I hold my current accounts with and also my credit card. Do you know if there is any way I can access old statements for the closed card to determine whether I can claim anything?
Or would my claim be nullified because my platinum account was 0% interest on purchases and transfers?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It applies to all lenders.
As Barclays was your main bank, they should have considered everything they know about you – which is a lot more than a difference credit card lender would. So they knew your income, whether you used an overdraft a lot, whether you had any loans from them, whether there was gambling showing on your account etc. Imagine you were a bank manager looking at your application for a second card. Would they think – that looks fine, all Andrew’s account are well managed and he doesn’t seem to have any problems? (of course the should also have checked your credit record.) In that case a second card with a reasonable limit may be fair.
A 0% card that you never paid interest on won’t get you a refund as it is interest that is refunded… but if the limit was large and when the 0% ended you were unable to clear the balance, should the bank have known that was likely when they gave you the card?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am not sure what old statements will show. Do you remember this card causing you difficulties? If not, then it’s unlikely you will win a claim. I am not saying that a second card is always or even usually wrong – it is only wrong if it was unaffordable.
Rachael says
I have a credit card with 118 money, i emailed them the other month asking if my account could be stopped and frozen as there was no other way of me being able to pay the card off, they acknowledged i sent them an email but instead of help or advice they increased my credit limit by £1000.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh boy.
Have you since then used the extra money?
How large was the limit before and had that already been increased?
Did you also have a loan from them?
Rachael says
I have used the money, silly i know but with cash tight and things needed i had to. yes, I do also have a loan from them. the credit limit was £2000 but now £3000.
I pay more then requested every month but with the increase in APR (doubled) its not really paying anything back to clear it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok then you have three reasons to complain to them – the way they haven;t responded to your email asking for help with your account, an affordability complaint about the card and an affordability complaint about the loan.
You could make all of these in one complaint, but it may be easier to make the first one now and then send the affordability complaints in in a couple of weeks time, saying that they are in addition to the complaint you made on dd/mm.
In this first complaint, you need to say that you sent them an email on dd/mm asking if your credit card account number 987654321 can be frozen. Say you have never receoved a response to this. Say you understand the FCA has told all lenders it is vital that they treat customers failry because of the cost of living problems and not freezing interest or even reply to your email asking for help, was not treating you fairly.
But they increased your credit limit instead. Point out that CONC 6.7.7 says that a firm must not increase, nor offer to increase, a customer’s credit limit on a credit card or retail revolving credit agreement where:
(1) the firm has been advised that the customer does not wish to have any credit limit increases; or
(2) a customer is at risk of financial difficulties.
Your request to have your account frozen should have been taken as indicating you were either in financial difficulty or at risk of it, so they should not have increased your limit.
Ask for them to reduce your balance to what it was before they increased your limit and for interest to be frozen from this point on.
Jackie says
HI SARAH
i have several account with Jd Williams actually 5 different catalogues all owned by Jd Williams i was affording the monthly payments then the interest became too much for me they increased and increased my limit until i couldnt afford the payments i had advised them i was in contact with step change and now they have started demanding payments again i have offered one monthly payment to go to all accounts but they have never set this up i am not working and this is a big problem for me
thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds like a strong affordability complaint…
Have you set up a debt management plan with StepChange?
can I ask if you are buying or renting?
Jackie says
no sarah step change have worked out i dont have any spare funds after paying important bills and its been left there but i would like to have aplan of something towards this debt
I rent my home
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can I ask what StepChange suggested? do you have a private or social tenancy?
And whether you have health or other reasons why you are unlikely to be able to resume normal payments
Jackie says
STEPCHANGE SUGGESTED a time break but yes i have health condition and on benefits i rent social housing
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is there a reason why StepChange did not suggest a Debt Relief Order?
Jackie says
i dont really know sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the reason StepChange did not recommend even making a token payment of £1 to each of these catalogue debts is probablt because they know you don’t have enough money for that. In this situation there is no point in strateching to pay something you can’t afford – £20 a month would take forever to clear the debts and you really need that £20.
Can you say what these 5 accounts adds up to? And do you have any other debts, one that you are paying in full, paying a reduced amount to or one that you arent paying at all – what do they add up to?
The reason I am asking all these questions is because although what you have said saounds like an excellent affordability claim against JDW, this may only reduce the balances and still leave you unable to clear the balance…
Jackie says
i know it a large debt now between the 5 catalogues must be £6500 BUT EVEN IF THEY REDUCE THE BALANCE I COULD pay something towards it so its not getting left it worries me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then make the affordability claim. And send it to the Financial Ombudsman if it’s rejected or you only get a poor offer on some of the accounts.
TN says
Hi Sara,
I submitted a complaint to Fluid about 11-12 weeks ago. Well over the 8 weeks time given for final response, they came back to me on the 12th week. My credit limit had been raised several times in the last 3-4 years from £1000 to £7750.
I also have other credit cards too, from Capital One, Virgin Money, ZOPA, and Tesco.
I have also put in complaints with Likey Loans, Lendable and Vanquis Bank (for a previous credit card I held), after seeing the email about Everyday Loans. Both Likely Loans and Lendable rejected my claim stating they gave me the loans under the right circumstances and that I could afford it. Vanquis didn’t even bother responding to my complaint, I have escalated all three with the FOS.
Fluid have sent me a letter but I haven’t received this yet. I found out through their customer services and they have closed my account. They have given me a gesture of goodwill of £400 equating to the last two interest payments and stand by their decision they acted correctly and credit card limits were affordable. I disagree, please advise. Is this definitely worth raising with the FOS and if I do so what is it that I can say to support my case?
Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were you mainly making minimum payments to the Fluid card over the last few years?
TN says
I will have to check for sure, for the course 3-4 years but I was making a mixture of boosted and minimum payments, both of which, once I paid often left me with not much money so I would then go back to using my credit card again. It was futile. Every month my credit card utilisation was very high and this I couldn’t escape from, also this is reflected in my credit report.
TN says
Hi Sara,
I was making a mixture of boosted and minimum payments. Do the boosted payments go against me? Even though these were paid but I ended up using the card almost immediately following making any payments. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It will depend on what happened. Making payments then using the card very quickly afterwards suggest you were difficulty, especially you if you were using the card for essentials and the card had a high utilisation.
TN says
Thanks Sara. Always so helpful.
Dp says
I opened up a House of Fraser Card ran by Newday several years ago, then an Amazon card – both of these are now ran by Pulse. I then opened a Marbles card, and finally Debenhams all ran by Newday. I am currently paying the minmum on all 4 of these cards, sometimes with boosted payments and they take up a large portion of my salary. Is it worth me complaining of irresponsible lending ? I am getting no where with trying to clear them as the minimum payment gets wiped out by the interest getting added back on each month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes i think you should.
BUT I also think you should talk to Stepchange about a debt management plan that will get the interest on these cards frozen. This gets you into a safe financial place while the complaints go through, as these can take a very long time if they have to go to the ombudsman. Winning a complaint will then dramatically decrease the time to complete the DMP.
Natalie says
Hello would someone be able to advise me on this because I’ve had a very very lengthy battle with aqua because they keep getting out of it.. I was given a credit card in 2013 and closed in 2019. They gave me 7 limit increases even though I was reaching my maximum credit limit everytime. Just before the last increase I took out 2 loans and payed a bit off my credit card so they whacked my credit limit up again.. I tried to ring the phone line and stop that last increase but apparently it didn’t get logged and they increased my limit so I got further into debt. I had gambling problems, I went to the financial ombudsman and they sided with aqua in 2019. In 2022 I had a professional company investigate irresponsible lending and won cases against 118 and drafty, said I had a good case against aqua but they wriggled out of it because of the financial ombudsman. I’ve filed a small claims court order and now have a mediation and feel like I’m going to struggle taking them on my own… 🙃🙃
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I wish you had been in touch in 2019.
I am sorry but I can’t advise on a court case in progress. You can talk to National Debtline or post on the Legal beagles forum. I do not know of anyone who has one a court case in this situation after losing at the Ombudsman.
Lia says
Hi Sara. I complained to NewDay about 2 separate credit cards they gave me. The first one they “upheld” and refunded me around £100. The second one they refused so I sent a complaint off to the FOS. They sent me an offer today for around £250. I explained to my case worker that I feel these figures are really low considering one card had a limit of £1500 and the other £2800. I know I paid more interest than that over 3 years! I have no proof as both accounts are now closed. My case worker said these figures must be right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The £250 was for the second card? Which card did you get first.
Were either of these offers “partial refunds” of the amount over a certain limit they said was ok but the increase wasn’t?
Lia says
I got the card with the £1500 limit first then the £2800 one a year or so later
I believe they said the initial credit limit was not irresponsible as it was quite low and the figures are the interest paid after multiple increases
I’ve wrote back to say I’ll accept the offer, because my advisor said it must be right because multiple people have checked it but it doesn’t seem right to me at all and I wish I hadn’t said that now!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you should get a full refund of all the interest on the second card.
If you have only just accepted this tell them immediately that you are changing your mind.
Lia says
Thanks Sara. I agree
NewDay say this IS the interest paid on that second card but my balance was £2800 so it doesn’t seem right
I’ve done a few of these claims now and NewDay are horrible to deal with
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did you ask Newday for a copy of all your personal information when you made the original complaint? If you did, did they send you this, it should have contained all your statements (or a digital equivalent) so you can see what they charged.
If you didn’t ask or they didn’t send it, email dpofficer@newday.co.uk and ask for a copy of all the monthly statements for both cards.
Olivia says
Hi Sa
MBNA allowed me to take out three credit cards with them within 6 months. I opened card 1 with a limit of £3000 in August 2016, which was immediately maxed out with interest free balance transfers. They then allowed me to open a second card in January 2017, with a limit of £4500, and then a third card in February 2017 with a limit of £3800. In that same month, they increased the limit on my first card to £4500. Again these limits were all maxed out. For several years the balances yo-yo’d as I was doing balance transfers between cards. There were periods I was paying heavy interest as I wasn’t able to transfer anywhere until I got a new offer on one of my cards. Eventually I entered a DMP as I could get no more credit anywhere. I assume this is all qualifying for a complaint.
I also was given a second Barclaycard, however with a small limit and the first card was taken out when I had no credit issues- so although I shouldn’t have been given the second card (first one was maxed out and frequent late payment fees etc) as it was such a small limit and balance I probably paid minimal interest on it- so am I right in saying no point complaining about that one?
Thank you for your advice
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can certainly complain about the three MBNA cards, say the total credit limit was impossibly high when ever interest was being charged on the accounts.
If you paid minimimal interest on the small Barclaycard limit there doesn’t seem much point
Scott Anderson says
Hi Sara, hope you can help me out here ?
I have 4 credit cards with the same lender. 2 Aqua, 1 New Day and 1 Marbles.. there is about £4,000 over the 4 cards.
These cards were all taken out about 1 year apart over about 4/5 years.
I have been paying £1 a month on 1. Aqua, 1.New Day and 1 Marbles this has been going on for only 1 or 2 months after taking the cards out.So for a number of years. 3 months ago Aqua e-mailed me saying i was approved for yet another card with £1,200 limit.
I am now also paying this card at £1 month.
I have mental health issuse as i suffer from bipolar and when i get a new card i just spend and max it out. I have manic periods where i will just spend spend and gamble as well. My point is why the hell do they keep giving me cards when i am only paying a £1 a month they also know about my bipolar… 5 years ago i was in debt and i got £14,000 written off with a Debt and mental health form, this was 6 credit cards and a car loan. What do you think i should do please?? thank you Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were new day one of the lenders that wrote of debt 5 years ago? So they had the DMHEF then?
scott says
Hello, Yes i am 99% sure Marbles was on of the cards ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who helped you get the debts written off last time. Because this is what I think you should try for again.
scott says
I done it all myself Sara. i spoke to New Day yesterday and i have 3 Aqua cards and 1 marbles.. one Aqua card was taken out in 2014 but has been sold to a Debt firm (this one got written off) they would have had my DMHEF..
Do I have a case with Aqua (new day) as they were aware i was not good with my credit with them before ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes this is a good reason to complain. But i think you will need to produce another DMHEF
Amy says
Hi ya,
I’m wondering if I have a claim for unaffordable lending, firstly with shop direct I had 2 catalogues with them. Since I was 18 they put my limit up to 10k I was only making min payments, and got into a lot of trouble had to get a loan to pay it off.
Then again with Lloyds I had a credit card for 3k and two loans for 10k each all whilst working part time I’m now on a debt management plan. As the repayments have just been to much to keep up with.
They have hiked internet onto my repayments.
Any help would be great fully appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was lloyds your bank?
did you also have an overdraft from LLoyds?
Amy says
Yes maxed out over draft, credit card, 2 loans all through Lloyds
£1000 overdraft
3k cc
2x 10k loans
I was on mat leave at the time as had two kids close together, going through a breakup so was single my whole second pregnancy, had to get house furnishings etc
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So yes, you have a definite claim against shop direct. They should not have increased the limit so high on the first account. And should never have given you the second account at all.
Lloyds – a definite claim for those 2 large loans!
The overdraft – did this go into your DMP? how long ago did the DMP start? how many days of the month were you in the overdraft roughly?
Amy says
Thank you for your reply!
As regards to the overdraft, it would have been been every day I was in my over draft, I don’t think I ever got out of it.
Had it for years.
The DMP started last year and yes the overdraft was included in this.
How would I make a claim to them both ?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So that sounds like a good claim about the overdraft too.
It’s best to make two separate complaints about the loans and overdraft.
Use the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ for the loans and add a section to that to say that as your bank Lloyds should have been aware of your high overdraft usage, which you are making a separate complaint about. .
Use the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/ for the overdraft. Add a section that says that Lloyds should have taken the large loans it gave you into account when checking that your overdraft remained affordable.
Lloyds has a bad habit of chopping off an overdraft refund in 2021 or 2022 when they say they sent you a letter about your overdraft. This was a generic letter. It did not say your overdraft was affordable – if this happens to you then send the case to the ombudsman to the financial ombudsman.
If Lloyds rejects either case or makes a poor offer, send it to the Ombudsman.
Amy says
Thank you so much !
For your help !
Jacqui says
Hi Sara,
I submitted an affordability complaint to NewDay at the end of May, as they had given me 4 different credit cards – Aqua, Pulse (previously Amazon), Fluid and Marbles. They kept increasing my credit limit even though I was only ever managing to make the minimum payments. The combined limit / balance on these cards ended up being £5,400.
I forwarded this to the Financial Ombudsman as they still hadn’t resolved it after 8 weeks.
Yesterday I got a reply from the Financial Ombudsman telling me that NewDay have upheld my complaint! My total refund over the 4 cards of interest, overlimit fees, cash advance charges and late payment fees will be £3,019.55 (on one of the cards, they actually owe me £70 !!)
Thank you so much for your article and letter template. Your advice on here really is helping me get out of a dire financial situation.
I am on a DPP (Debt Payment Programme) under the Debt Arrangement Scheme in Scotland, so this refund means I will be able to complete my DPP and be free from debt a lot quicker!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
very good news for you!
Amy says
Hi Sara,
Could you ask the bank (this was my lender), for the back dated statements, or do you not recommend doing that?
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Which lender are you complaining about.
Do you mean credit card statements? Or bank statements?
Emma says
Hi Sara my partner has finally had his complaint upheld, he had an account with marbles and aqua.
Aqua have only refunded from the aqua side of things and ignored the 2 credit card complaint, guessing this would be cause to send to the Ombudsman.
They also aren’t refunding the 8% interest, is this because his account is in debt as he had set up a payment arrangement?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the Aqua refund adequate? No 8% is added unless the account is taken back into the black by the refund.
You can send the second card complaint to the Ombudsman but if it has simply been ignored in the response, I suggest first asking them to reply to that part too… which came first, the Aqua or the other card?
Ann says
I have put a complaint in with Capital One, and now they are asking me for bank statements. I’m not comfortable sending them bank statements (and I’m not sure I could even get them as the bank I used at the time closed my account when I started a debt management plan) but they’ve said they will close the complaint if I don’t provide them. Is this appropriate? I would have thought the ombudsman should be the only people I send bank statements to
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago was the account opened? or was your credit limit increased?