Was your car finance unaffordable?
The FCA, who regulates car finance lenders. and the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) say:
a loan is only affordable if you can make the repayments on time, without hardship and still meeting your other commitments.
That means you need to be able to pay all your other debts, your normal household bills and expenses as well as the new car loan payments.
You may have made your car finance a top priority as you don’t want the car to be repossessed. As a result you may have had increasing credit card balances, more loans or got behind with bills. That means even though you kept making the payments, the finance was not “affordable”.
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Affordability checks
A lender should have checked you could afford the car finance. This may mean checking not just your credit record, but also your income and expenses as well.
These checks have to be “proportionate”. If you have got a great credit record and a good income and are only borrowing a small amount, the lender isn’t going to have to look in great detail to be confident you can afford it.
But with a poor credit record, or where the repayments will be a large proportion of your income, better checks are needed. The FCA rules don’t say exactly what has to be done, but a lender often can’t rely on what the customer says their income and expenses are. Other ways to check include:
- your credit record shows what you are paying to other debts each month;
- there are national average figures for some expenses, so your estimate that you spend £60 a month on food or nothing on clothes isn’t realistic;
- the lender could look at payslips or bank statements to be sure.
These checks are often inadequate
The regulator thinks some car finance lenders are not checking properly for affordability. In 2019, the FCA said:
Here is an extreme case ‘Car payments are ruining our lives’ where a 23 year old student with a part-time job was sold a 21k Audi on finance, with apparently no affordability checks at all.
But it’s probably more common that a quick and inadequate check was done.
A car finance expert makes a lot of excellent points in this article: The car industry need to be more honest when selling car finance. He says:
It’s time for the car industry to do better, even if it’s to save customers from themselves.
“Affordability” is a test of your situation when you took the finance
The car finance company may have done a good assessment of affordability. At the start, you may have been able to manage the loan repayments.
Then something went wrong – perhaps you had your hours cut, or you split up with your partner. Or rising bills in 2022 mean what was manageable before isn’t any more. Here it’s not the lender’s fault that the car finance is now unaffordable and you won’t win an affordability complaint. Read Can you afford your car finance payments? which looks at your options in this situation.
But should the lender have seen that the loan was too expensive at the start if they had looked properly when you applied for the credit?
In this case, you can make an affordability complaint to the lender.
How to make a car finance affordability complaint
The affordability rules for car finance are the same as for other loans. So you can follow the approach and use the template letter for an affordability complaint in this article: How to ask for a refund from large, bad credit loans.
The template letter in that article asks for:
- a refund of the interest on the finance;
- for the remaining balance to be repaid at an affordable rate; and
- for any negative marks to be removed from your credit record.
If you have other serious complaints about the car, such as poor quality, you can add those into the standard affordability complaint letter.
A lot of lenders reject even good complaints. So don’t be depressed if this happens – just send it to the Financial Ombudsman – the process is all described in the above link.
What happens if you win the complaint?
If you win an affordability complaint for a normal loan, you get the interest refunded and if the loan is still running, your balance is reduced. It’s more complicated with car finance complaints.
You may wonder what happens if your car was repossessed and you had paid little or no interest?
If you still have the car finance, will you be able to keep the car?
See Car finance affordability – what you get if you win a complaint which looks at the different situations and what the ombudsman usually decides. It has some links to Ombudsman decisions – including one for a brand-new BMW!
Still have the car? You must keep paying the car finance
These complaints may take many months. You will have to keep up the loan repayments during this time, or your car may be repossessed.
Read Can you manage to pay your car finance? which looks at your options when you don’t think you can keep on paying while the complaint goes through.
Other sorts of car finance claims
€ar finance commission – cases won at the Ombudsman
In January 2024, 2 major cases were won at the Financial Ombudsman were people had been charged to high an interest rate on car finance in order to increase the commission the car dealer got.
See Car finance commission scandal – can you get a refund? for details and how to start a claim.
But if you think you may have a good affordability complaint it’s probably worth trying that first, as in an affordability complaint you get all the interest refunded, but in a commission complaint you would only get some of the interest back.
“Dieselgate” – a totally different sort of claim
You may have seen ads saying you may be able to get £,000s back as diesel cars were mis-sold because they produced more harmful emissions than advertised.
MSE has written a good article on these claims, with a list of the law firms you can use and what they charge. This is not a complaint you can sensibly try to do yourself. I have no idea how likely a payout is and it may take a long while.
Get interest refunded from large loans
Which debts are top priority?
How to end your car finance early
james says
Hi Sara
i would like to thank you for all your help. i have resolved my case with money barn and i would just like to say thank you for the advise etc
job done
kind regards
james
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Very pleased to hear that.
Julia says
In 2015 I wasn’t shocked when I received an email of decline from moneybarn for car finance after they did a credit search through Experian. But, 2 days later I was accepted and received a welcome to moneybarn email!! I was shocked. I couldn’t really afford car Finance but I needed a new car and couldn’t afford to pay for one outright, my credit report was horrendous.
I got into deeper debt and basically missed a lot of other payments to prioritise my car finance. I also missed a few payments to moneybarn. I realised last year that I could make a complaint to moneybarn. So I did in jan 23, I heard nothing, so I sent an email on the 4th April asking for a response, they replied the next day with a final response letter (dated 20th March!) saying I can’t complain as it’s more than 6 years ago I took out the finance and I should have realised more than 3 years ago I could complain when I started to miss payments!
I went to FOS october 23. I had an email from FOS asking for my complaint letter to moneybarn and moneybarns final response letter, which I forwarded to them, yesterday I had an email from FOS saying that they are requesting information from moneybarn and I will be allocated a case handler in 2/3 months and that it could be sooner or longer. I just wanted to know if this is good news that I’m Waiting for a case handler? Does that mean they agree that I have a cause to complain? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No one at FOS has really looked at your case yet – the only cases that get rejected at this stage are if you have gone to FOS too soon (some people think it’s quicker not to complain to the lender but go straight to FOS – it isn’t – it just wastes a week while FOS tells them to go back and complain to the lender) of if you are complaining about something FOS doesn’t cover, such as a non FCA authorised firm.
While you are waiting, do you have any evidence about what your finances were like back in 2015? It’s a good idea to get this together.
FOS will probably ask you why you didn’t complain earlier – most people say something like “I was in financial difficulty because I was having to borrow elsewhere to pay Moneybarn and even missed payments to them. But I thought that was my fault for applying and that as I didn’t want to loose the car i just had to keep paying and borrow more. I didn’t realise that Moneybarn should have checked the loan was affordable for me so I didn’t know they had broken that rule and i had no idea there was anything to complain about.
You may also have good affordability complaint against other loans or credit cards that gave you more credit when you had this car finance. You may see MB as the cause of a lot of these problems, but the other lenders should not have lent to you so make affordability complaints about them too!
Julia says
Hi,
I will update on progress so far… so an investigator took on my case on November 23 and told me they would keep me updated. I emailed for an update last week and they said they would get back to me. They have now got back to me saying that I complained after the 6 month period as moneybarn have said they emailed me on the 20th March 23 with a final response letter!
They did not email the response letter on 20th March 23. I emailed moneybarn on the 4th of April 23 asking for an update on my complaint and the next day they sent me a final response dated the 20th March. Which was very strange.
I complained to FOS on the 27th sep 23, within 6 months of receiving the final response on the 5th April. Not the date of the letter itself (20th march 23).
So I have asked the investigator to pass this to an ombudsman which she is.
The only reason I made my complaint to FOS close to the 6 month time was because I suffer with a kidney problem and was on antibiotics and unwell from the end of march to mid May and it wasn’t on my mind at that time.
I’ve stated this to the investigator and sent proof I was on antibiotics at the time.
If they do say I complained out of time, which I don’t think I have as I showed FOS an email I sent to moneybarn on 4 apr 23 asking for an update as they hadn’t got back to me.
I don’t know what will happen now. Have you heard of anyone having disagreements with the dates?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I hope that FOS agree that you have submitted a complaint within 6 months. This sort of dispute is rare.
Julia says
I have forwarded everything I can to the investigator before the 24th of January deadline that she gave me.
The investigator said in her final decision to not consider my complaint that the time to complain is 6 months from the date of the letter on the email. However, in the FCA handbook it clearly states that a customer has 6 months to pass their complaint to the financial ombudsman from the time it was ‘received’, How can she say something completely different when the FCA publish FOS’ official rules which are clearly visible on their website!
I’ve been reading them thoroughly and in the FOS handbook it clearly says the same thing, 6 months to complain from the time the customer receives the final decision.
I received my final complaint on 5/4/23 even though the attached final response was dated 20/3/23. I went to FOS on the 26/09/23 within 6 months of the date I ‘received’ it.
I’m standing my ground and I’ve written a lengthy final email stating how it would not be complying with FCA’s rules if they did not consider my complaint.
I wonder how long the ombudsman will take to get in touch considering it’s been 1 week since the investigator passed it to the ombudsman after me disagreeing with her decision….
MM says
Hi Sara,
My case has been upheld by the investigator, however Moneybarn has not yet responded. It looks like they are probably not going to respond by the deadline and it’s going to go to the ombudsman for a final decision.
Do you or anyone know here how long I can expect this part of the process to take (roughly as I understand it can vary)? How long does it take the ombudsman to pick it up, and how long to have a final decision normally?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think Moneybarn has had a backlog of cases. I hope this is now clearing. MB may pop up and accept the decision even if it has been put in the queue for an Ombudsman.
Sometimes these case can go through the Ombudsman level very quickly if the lender hasn’t raised any objections.
Laura says
Hi Sara,
I’m wondering if you can help me please, I’ve made an affordability complaint against Moneybarn, the adjudicator has said they agree Moneybarn should have done more checks as I had a ccj and defaults, but ultimately they are not agreeing with my complaint as they have looked at my income 3 months prior and said I had £400 extra after essentials, I have sent a full break down which shows this isn’t the case, the adjudicator is saying on average and not looking at the break down I’ve sent which shows it was £180 at most on average and the agreement for Moneybarn was £150 which might appear manageable but my income wasn’t much more than £1000 with a lot of outgoings (debt), on top of this I was constantly in my overdraft so it wasn’t available money it was borrowing from my overdraft. I am at a loss at what to do because I genuinely believe It was unaffordable and have demonstrated that, but the adjudicator is asking for more evidence otherwise they will close the complaint. Do you think it would be beneficial to use a company or someone to represent me?. Thank you in advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have gone through each of those three months bank statements before you took the finance?
Laura says
Yes and I’ve explained what the expenses were for broken them down into (food shopping, essential travel for work) month 1 I was overdrawn month 2 £233 month 3 £288 available ( that would have taken me up to overdraft limit)
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you have a car before this MB one?
how large was your overdraft limit?
Laura says
Also, just follow on from my previous comment, the adjudicator says they agree monebarn did not carry out reasonable and proportionate checks on me prior to giving me the finance, that statement alone is what fob define as unfair lending so I can’t understand how they are not agreeing with my complaint.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FOS always does 2 checks – that the lender didn’t make proper checks AND that if they had made the proper checks they would have seen the finance was unaffordable. You have to pass both checks to win the case.
Laura says
Ok thanks Sara, I do feel like I’ve shown it was unaffordable, the money that was left over would have taken me to the max of my overdraft, I can’t understand how that’s seen as affordable. Is there any other ways of presenting my complaint you could advise that I could go back to the adjudicator with, now that they are asking for further evidence.
Yes, I’d had one with smart car/ Mercedes which ended in 2017, and my overdraft limit was £1500. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t have to provide “further evidence” – you just have to set this out very clearly. You can ask for this to go to an Ombudsman to be looked at.
Steve says
My case was very similar to yours just with a diff lender. I’d listed and had proof of monthly expenses however the FOS Adj I just couldn’t get through to. Really disappointed me at the time and kinda made me think my complaint wasn’t valid, I sent to an Ombudsman to review and they quickly saw what I was saying and agreed with my complaint. Not saying yours will go this way, but worth noting this has happened previously. I would follow Sara’s advice and send to Ombudsman stating the reasons clearly why you disagree, this may be a little repetitive but just clearly outline your points and where to reference the proof. Good luck
Laura says
Thanks very much Steve, I will do that.
MM says
Hi Sara,
Moneybarn have accepted the findings, and I’ve given my bank details to FOS. The FOS investigator said to expect to deal with Moneybarn directly. Do we know how prompt Moneybarn are in these situations? If they are not prompt, do you have any advice who to contact and what to do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have been poor but I think they may be improving. What is the decision in your case?
MM says
Refund all interest above original value of car + 8% interest per year until settlement date for all overpayments.
I think that would make it a £5500~ repayment since I overpaid double the car value of 4795
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok so this is a simple money refund. Things get slower if the car has to be picked up or the debt was sold to a debt collector. You should hear in three weeks – if not, get in touch with the complaints departmenT and offer your details. Dont bother to do this this now, this will not speed things up.
Simon says
Moneybarn are terrible for making you wait. The ombudsman gave them 28 days to pay me and as the weeks past by I did not even receive my settlement offer. It was only after bombarding them with emails did I receive it but then they tried to say that I would be paid in 28 days. I didn’t except this and so I kept on with the bombardment and copied in there ceo unit eventually they paid me. I actually received the refund on the final day of the ombudsman deadline.
MM says
Hello Simon,
Just so I understand, how long after they accepted the FOS decision did you start chasing Moneybarn – and how did you contact them (email address etc).
It’s not been long for me yet, I was notified Moneybarn agreed 5 days ago – I just want to prepare what I should do in case they drag their heels.
Simon says
Hi, I started it a week before the ombudsman deadline. I emailed the complaint email, the portal email and customer services. They got back to me after 3 days of about 50 emails per day, they then told me that they have 28 days to pay. Nope, I wasn’t having that. I carried on my repeated emails, stating I do not accept that only this time I copied in there MD, David Shrimpton. 3 days later they paid in full
B says
Hi Sara, are you able to assist please with the initial findings of the investigator?
I appreciate you may not have known PCF could have been responsible for the situation you were in. But as confirmed the regulator’s rules ask us to not only consider when you knew, but also when you ought reasonably to have known you had a reason to complain.
Your testimony confirms that at the point of application, PCF reviewed your payslips and carried out a credit check. You’ve also told us you had to prioritise payments for the PCF lending because you needed the car for work which resulted in you missing other commitments.
I don’t doubt what you’ve said about not knowing you could make a complaint about irresponsible lending until recently. However, because PCF carried out a credit check and reviewed your payslips at the point of application, I think this ought to have made it clear PCF were carrying out checks to see if you could afford repayments. So, when you started missing payments on your PCF agreement between 2017 and 2019, you should have known PCF may have been partly responsible or that something was wrong – because of the checks they carried out at the inception of the lending.
I actually made majority of payments in 2017 and 2019 and have repaid the loan, however was only aware in May that I could complain when I read your website. I have made other complaints. Is there any response you could assist me with at all please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, go back and say you thought the credit check and payslips were PCF assessing what risk they would be taking on by lending to you, and that this was always lowish because this was a secured loan on the car.
You had no idea PCF were suppose to work out if you could afford to repay the debt and manage all your other commitments. So when you missed the odd payment, it was very stressful as you needed the car and your only concern was to make the payment up. It never made you wonder if there was something wrong the original checks PCF had made.
Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the investigator doesn’t change their mind.
B says
Thank you, I will do.
Laura says
Hi Sara,
The adjudicator has calculated my income and expenditure for the 3 months leading up to my application by using the pay I received at the end of each month against the expenses I had during the same month, for example 31st July payment for July expenses/outgoings. When in reality when I was paid on 30th June it was to cover expenses in July as I lived month to month. It might not seem important but if my argument is accepted it significantly reduces the total amount of income I had in the months leading up to my application as my wage varied and could change the outcome of my complaint. Do you think this is a fair argument as it was a true reflection of my financial situation at the time.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should make this argument but I don’t know what the adjudicator will decide.
David says
I have a question on my current hire purchase agreement.
I used 247 carfinance and zuto to search for a new agreement in approx Feb 2022. I already had a car with another lender but had paid most of it off so the idea was to refinance, part exchange and settle any difference. The car I ended up taking was about 1 hrs 30 mins drive away in Yorkshire (I live in lancs) and when I got there the dealership actually almost enforced their own lender on me. As I’d driven so far and it all happened so fast I went ahead as the deal was still good for what I was exchanging and getting. Hindsight, not a good idea I suppose.
Everything was fine repayment wise until Jan 204 when I missed a payment because I got a bonus from work but didn’t budget well enough as the following month it meant our universal credit payment was reduced and I couldn’t afford all my commitments. We eventually agreed to split the month missed across the next 12 months starting Feb 2023.
During that correspondence the lender detailed that they had a concern about affordability, but why would they ask this please, having already lender to me and if anything my circumstances hadn’t really changed for better or worse, it was just the one budgeting mistake I made over that period.
I’m now a few months away from paying 2 years finance back and have been considering a further refinance as my circumstances are now better than they were in Feb 2022 when I first took out this new agreement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is the interest rate on your current finance? is it HP or PCP?
David says
My question was more about whether I should query this further or not really. If there was a point when they assessed me and felt it might not be affordable, why did they accept me in the first place?
It’s hire purchase, 10.7k car value, opening loan value is 15.2k and I currently owe approx 8k. On approx Feb 2024 I will have paid more than half the value.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you feel the finance was unaffordable? That is what matters, not some stray remark to you.
David says
Personally yes but I only took out the new loan to get out of the previous lending which I had felt was high already, and the fact I went with a car finance broker and then to have the dealerships finance shoved in my face without any prior warning felt quite forced.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I understand this feels annoying. But if it was a good deal and you feel it was affordable, it isn’t clear that you will win any complaint.
David says
Even when the dealership pretty much forced their lender on me when I’d already had an agreement in place via a broker?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t say you won’t win a complaint. but it isnt clear to me what you lost by this?
David says
Hello DC, i’m coming back to this thread, as i’ve recently contacted StepChange to arrange DMPs. I’ve set this car HP as a priority debt so it won’t be affected, but i’m now almost at the point i’ve paid for the car for 2 years which is approx 6k of a 15k deal (car value was 10.8k at purchase). Payments are up to date, because i have ensured this was paid before anything else each month, being it a priority debt and requirement for the household. I cannot afford to get a new one as per the above.
However, i’m still not quite happy with this deal that was pushed onto me by the dealer when i turned up there on the day of collection despite me turning up expecting to finance the deal via carfinance247.
Not only that and although not the fault of the dealer, it has been a contributing factor in me now contacting stepChange.
Do i have grounds to ask for the removal of interest and a fairer repayment schedule to pay off the balance? Or should i make an affordability complaint and continue to pay normal repayments in the interim? Or are there any other options you think may be on the table do you think? Was just hoping for some advice please. Many thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume you want to keep the car.
if you do, you need to postpone making a complaint about this until you are close to the point where you have repaid the amount you borrowed. If you win the complaint at the moment, you may lose the car, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/.
Steve says
Hi Sara, are the below calculations correct, I just want to ensure they are taking into consideration I paid a £1000 deposit. Blue Motor Finance were the lender and I must say they behaved impeccably in terms of paying out etc.. I’m just a bit confused about the deposit bit..
I have calculated your redress amount as a total of £7,493.04. – This is what I received
Their breakdown:
Your refund has been broken down as follows:
£6,581.38 – Treat payments made over and above the purchase price of the car as overpayments. Any overpayments should be refunded. Vehicle price was £21,450. Total payments made = £27,031.38 plus deposit of £1000 = £28,031.38. Difference is £6,581.38;
Plus 8% simple interest = £911.66 (£1139.57 gross – £227.91 tax). Many thanks for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you agree with all the individual figures?:
– the car cost £21,450
– you paid a deposit of 1,000
– monthly payments of 27,031
–
Steve says
Yes they look correct to me, thank you for getting back to me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case the sum the have done (deposit plus month payments less the car price = refund before 8% interest) looks correct to me.
Nice result.
Steve says
Thanks so much Sara
MM says
Hi Sara,
I was just wondering if you could help me understand some of the terms so that I can understand how much interest Moneybarn owes me. When the FOS says something like:
“Refund any payments Mr X has made in excess of £4,795, representing the original cash price of the car. It should add 8% simple interest per year* from the date of each overpayment to the date of settlement.”
–Is the interest calculated on each direct debit payment I made to the lender after I paid them a total of £4795?
–Does the ‘date of settlement’ referenced above mean the day the loan was settled (March 2021), or does it mean the day that the lender refunds me and settles our dispute? (Hopefully this month, November 2023)?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the interest calculated on each direct debit payment I made to the lender after I paid them a total of £4795?
That may not be how they calculate it, but it should give about the right answer
Does the ‘date of settlement’ referenced above mean the day the loan was settled (March 2021), or does it mean the day that the lender refunds me and settles our dispute?
the say they calculate the settlement amount. which should be just before they pay you.
Hoe large is the refund?
MM says
I overpaid £5,016.11 in total. I haven’t been given any figure from Moneybarn or FOS yet how much I am due exactly, but I just want to make sure I understand this right in case Moneybarn try to give me less than I’m due.
Sam says
Hi Sara,
I have contacted you previously about my case against Moneybarn and given me some great advice but I thought I would put it on here incase this has happened with anyone else.
I basicallly put in an affordability complaint against Moneybarn that they rejected so I went to the Ombudsman. After a lot of backward and forward emails the investigator has said that they are unable to look into the case as Moneybarn took me to court resulting in an apparent CCJ for me. Now this CCJ never showed up on any credit file including a statutory credit report. The investigator is now closing the case because in his words Moneybarn have proved ‘beyond doubt’( his words) that Moneybarn raised a court judgement against me.
He then goes onto say this
I can’t comment on why the judgement isn’t showing on your credit file however, you may have cause for complaint with Moneybarn if they’ve not recorded the judgement as they’re required to do. Assuming you do raise a new complaint with Moneybarn for failing to report the judgement to the credit reference agencies, Moneybarn will be afforded up to eight weeks to investigate the matter before issuing their final response to you.
I am so angry about this as not only did Moneybarn fail to do proper affordability checks, they didn’t declare my CCJ to the credit agencies leaving me with a CCJ for the last 6 years that I knew nothing about.
I’m just wondering if you have any advice or a letter template I could use before pursuing this with Moneybarn? Is there anything I could go back to the ombudsman with?
Many thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked for evidence 0f this CCJ? I am sure Moneybarn did go to court to get a possession order. That is not a CCJ.
Because a lender doesn’t report a CCJ to the credit reference agencies. The courts notify Registry Trust and Registry Trust notifies the CRAs. The adjudicator doesn’t seem to understand this.
I think you said you checked Registry Trust and no CCJ was showing?
Sam says
Thanks Sara,
Yes I went to the Registry Trust and no CCJ was showing. I will go back to the investigator and ask for the evidence of the CCJ. Do you think they are likely to look at the complaint if it is proved it’s a possession order and not a CCJ?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes I think they should. A possession order is NOT a money claim – it will never show on your credit record – and you cannot dispute it by saying the debt is unaffordable. And in any case, you paid the arrears and the car was returned.
So you are NOT asking FOS to overrule a court decision – you are not challenging the court decision in any way, you are making an affordability complaint.
Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind.
Sam says
Hi Sara,
I have just heard back off FOS who have said the following
By way of an update, the Ombudsman assigned this complaint to look into has referred the matter back to me to address jurisdiction first. This in part is due to Moneybarn declining consent under the FCA’s six and three year rules. This means that I’ll need to address jurisdiction without delay, taking into account submissions from both sides.
To assist me, please state when you first became reasonably aware the agreement may have been unaffordable to you and that Moneybarn could be to blame.
Is there a certain time you think that could affect the outcome? Pretty much from the start I thought it was unaffordable but desperately needed a car for work. I’m worried if I say this though he will say I should have complained sooner.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
looking back on your previous comments, I think you could reasonably say that you knew your finances were in a lot of difficulty but you prioritised paying the car finance wherever possible as you needed to keep the car. At that point you had no idea that Moneybarn should have made affordability checks, so you did not blame them, but yourself. Point out that if had had any idea that Moneybarn had broken the regulators rules so they were partly at fault, you would have complained back then as you were desperate – but as you thought it was your own problem you just tried to get through even though this mean borrowing more money elsewhere.
Sam says
Thanks for that Sara,
Do you think I should say I thought it was affordable early into the agreement?
Thanks again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should say you had financial difficulties from before the start of the car finance and that these got worse [NB I am assuming this is correct? don’t say something that isn’t!]
But I would avoid the use of the term “affordable” as at that point you presumably had no idea of what the regulators definition of “affordable” was… so its best to avoid using a term with a very specific mean when you only mean that it was hard to make the payments.
Sam says
Thanks Sara,
Investigator has just emailed me saying they can not look into it as it falls outside the 6 year rule. I’m going to ask for it to go to the Ombudsman but wondered if there was any paperwork anywhere that showed they have gone beyond the 6 years before so why not do it again. I know each case is different but surely the 6 year rule needs to be consistent.
Thank again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would describe the FIS decisions on over 6 years as random rather than consistent.
Sam says
Yes, good point. Just seems it depends on the investigator. Some seem quite sympathetic to the complaint and some not at all.
Ruth says
Hi Sara,
I’ve just won a complaint at Ombudsman stage against 247Money Group for irresponsible lending on car finance. Could you tell me from this, does the ombudsman mean I’ll receive the interest I paid or the £7870? I’m not 100% sure from the wording…. Thankyou
“As I don’t think 247 should have approved the loan, I don’t think it’s fair for them to charge
any interest or other charges under the agreement. But Miss T had use of the car before she
sold it, and then she benefitted from the proceeds of the sale. To settle Miss T’s complaint,
I’m inclined to say 247 should do the following:
Refund all the payments Miss T has made in excess of £7,870, representing the
original cash price of the car. 247 should add 8% simple interest per year from the
date of each overpayment to the date of settlement.
Remove any adverse information recorded on Miss T’s credit file regarding the
agreement.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You will get the interest you paid. That is any deposit you paid PLUS the monthly payments you made PLUS any final settlement figure MINUS the £7870 cost of the car.
MM says
Hi Sara,
I was just wondering, is there any worries you have heard of about Moneybarn’s financial situation? It seems to me that lots of people are now complaining about them which has got me worried if I’ll end up in a similar situation to when Amigo Collapsed – putting lots of claims in jeopardy.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think so!
Leanne says
Hello,
I too have finance with 247Money Group, i would like to put forward an affordability complaint. I’m just worried they would request the car back if i make a complaint? Agreement started Sept 2022 for 48 months.
The total amount : £7,834.68
Deposit (cash & part exchange) £99.00
Total amount of credit £5,550.00
Interest £2,185.68.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how much was the car? how much are you paying each month?
Bee says
Hi Sara, I need some help please. I submitted a complaint in April 2022 to the FOS about the affordability of my car finance from Moneybarn. My car finance was taken out in March 2015 and has been completed. At the time of taking out the finance, my monthly salary was £1,800 per month and my monthly mortgage payment was £995, council tax was £130, and other bills totalled approx £450. I had 3 x ccjs and 2 payday loans on the go, 1 which was severely delinquent (over 3 years delinquent as in no payments made) my monthly Moneybarn payments were £375 per month and I ended up prioritising the car finance above everything else resulting in 3 additional ccjs. My case was finally reviewed by an investigator from FOS in early Oct this year, 18 months after my initial submission to them. The investigator then said he agreed with Moneybarn but asked me to explain my delay in submitting my complaint. I explained that I was unaware that I could submit until being made aware via social media and online articles. He still did not agree with me but said he would forward to an independent ombudsman for consideration. I heard nothing for a few weeks then today he asked for more detail on my complaint but hadn’t confirmed that the FOS would be taking it forward. Is there any advice you can share?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you been asked questions about when you knew that Moneybarn were at fault?
Bee says
Hi Sara,
The investigator asked ‘ We can look at a late complaint if exceptional circumstances were responsible for this, so if there’s anything that might’ve stopped you complaining in time and you want me to consider this, please let me know.’ So I explained that I was only aware early last year and had initially felt I was at fault for putting myself in that financial situation. I truly didn’t know they were responsible for ensuring the finance was affordable.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then repeat what you have said and that you want this to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind.
Bee says
Thanks Sara, I will do so.
Bee says
Hi Sara, do the investigator has come back to me and said that he my complaint is outside the 6 year time limit. He has agreed to forward on to an Ombudsman at my request. He also said that given my awareness of my ccjs, delinquent debt and poor financial situation, I was aware that the finance was unaffordable. I responded that even given all that, Moneybarn clearly didn’t do sufficient checks in their financial duty of care to me as a consumer and gave me a loan that was clearly unaffordable. He also mentioned that he was having to check his decision making with a superior as he was new to car finance affordability complaints. I am now waiting for the ombudsman to look into my affordability complaint. Do you have any additional advice?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you could add that the fact you knew your finances were bad with CCJs and payday loans but this didn’t prevent you from needing a car – without a car you couldn’t manage [to get to work?]. You did your best to pay Moneybarn even though that meant defaulting on other debts but at the time you thought this was you fault not Moneybarn’s. You had no idea that Moneybarn should have made checks on affordability, as it would have been plain to anyone that you would struggle to pay them .
MM says
Just a heads up Bee, I also earlier this year submitted a complaint about Moneybarn lending to me in Feb 2016. They kept asking me these questions, but I told them that I only found out last year that I was able to complain. Once they understood this, they took it forward, but very slowly.
About a month ago i got told FOS thought it was unfair, and then moneybarn expected the comlpaint and I’m expecting a settlement for 5.5-6.5k. So as long as they understand you only knew you were able to complain recently – this should not be a problem. As Sara said, if they disagree take to the Ombudsman.
Bee says
That’s really encouraging to hear. Thank you MM. I’m really glad your case worked out.
Sam says
Hi MM,
Sounds like you have had a great result. I’m in a similar situation to Bee. I’ve just been told by the investigator that they cant look into it as it falls outside the six years. Im going to ask for it to go to the ombudsman but wondered if you had anything in writing about the decision to look back further than 6 years I could look at to prove to them they have done it before so why not do it again.
Thank you in advance.
Bee says
@Sam, an update for you. The ombudsman agreed with the investigator, they will not look into my complaint based on the time limit. They felt based on my awareness of my dire financial situation at the time, that I had ample time to complain. Even though I had no idea I could until reading a money saving expert article early last year and then also finding this site. I’m very disappointed.
Sam says
@Bee thank you for the update, I understand your disappointment. I’m fully expecting the same outcome. It’s just so frustrating, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to realise that if we thought you could complain about this back then, then surely we would have done. It’s not even the money, for me it’s these companies being made accountable for preying on people that are vulnerable. I know it is my fault for getting into that situation but these people just take advantage and that makes me so angry.
John says
Hi can anyone offer advice or experiences. The adjudicator agreed with me that blue motor finance acted irresponsibly. They then agreed with this but queried how the settlement was addressed so fos reworked it and they have to refund what I paid over the cash price. They have another week to agree to this. My question is can they go back on originally agreeing it was irresponsible? Also if they agree at the adjudicator level? How long would I have to wait for the refund ? Does anyone have any similar experiences ?
Frank says
Hi Sara I’ve submitted a claim for a current car finance I have as it was unaffordable to me at the time, it’s put strain on my financial situation ever since. Looking at the income and expenditure I gave them it’s not accurate and it gave a higher disposable income than I actually had. They didn’t verify what I told them with payslips or bank statements and I also had nearly 20 unpaid defaults on my credit file. Will it go against me with the FOC that the income and expenditure details I gave on the application weren’t accurate? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this car essential for you? How much did you borrow, not including interest, and how much have you paid so far?
Franki says
Yes the car is essential for me as it’s for work I borrowed £13,500 and have paid back £12,245 so far
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you are close-ish to the point of having repaid it all. I hope you are continuing to make payments.
there is nothing laid out about what verification has to be done, but if your credit record was bad and with recent problems, then as this was a large loan they should have verified your income and enough of your expenditure to make a reasonable assessment of affordability
Franki says
Thanks Sara will let you know the outcome once it’s all finished fingers crossed and yes il continue to make the payments
Franki says
Hi Sara
I’ve had a response from the ombudsman, not upholding my complaint. They think the lender did carry out substantial checks to verify my income and expenditure. These checks were a telephone call where I went through my income and expenditure where the figures were incorrect as I needed the car finance at the time and then an online verification check based on national averages, they never once got bank statements or payslips from me to verify what I was saying was correct. If they had of they would’ve seen that these figures were wrong. I also had a large amount of defaults still outstanding although there were historical the amount of debt I had was quite substantial . Do you think I’ve still got a case I wasn’t sure whether I should reject it and take it further with the ombudsman.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you should. The fact you had a lot of defaults on your credit record means the lender should have tried to verify the numbers as national averages are unlike to be relevant for you.
Franki says
Thanks Sara will let you know how I get on
Johnn says
Hi Steve great result, I’ve won mine today and blue have emailed me for bank details but they haven’t sent me how much the redress is. If you don’t mind me asking did they ask for your details first then send the redress amount? Also how long did you wait after the initial email off them to get the redress. Thanks in advance
Steve says
Best company I’ve dealt with in terms of redress, all done and dusted in around a week
Stacey says
Used the template and with Sara’s help and advise, about 8 weeks later. I got a letter through the door saying my finance company had cleared £6000 off the total. It really was so simple, I just populated the template and sent it off. Such a good feeling that I didn’t have to fight it again with the Ombudsman. Thank you Sara, I will always be eternally grateful!
Curtis says
Hi Sara just after your thoughts on my hp agreement with moneybarn, I’m 3 months in to a 60 month contract, I’m up to date so far, i should never of taken the agreement as it’s unaffordable, it’s a monthly repayment of 560, which is 30% of my net pay, I am never out of my overdraft, 3 Maxed credit cards and and my credit score was very poor when it was taken out, The car value was £22500 and I paid a deposit of £500
What should I do going forward as I don’t need the car?
Return it or vt?
Can you vt it then go to ombudsman?
Thanks for any help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you don’t need a car? Can I ask why you bought this, has something changed or did you not realise at the time what all the other expenses like insurance would add up to?
Never out of your overdraft – so that’s even when you are paid? What was this like before you bought this car?
Have your debts got worse in the last 3 months?
Curtis says
So I’ve just started to miss a few payments, late fees for credit cards, and missed payment for my insurance, missed payment for a debt collection agency, and missed payment for my phone bill,
my employer reneged on a promotion payrise, I don’t need the car as I’m able to wfh from now on,
My next payment is the 28th dec so im stuck as to what to do,
I was thinking vt before then to save myself the £560 this month and to put a complaint in, every finance company rejected me expect moneybarn,
I had a small payrise after I got the car and this is the difference between my old car and the current one so this paid part of the difference, I’ve managed to keep afloat by an advance of my employer and little help from family,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well whether of not you win the complaint, paying more than you can afford for a car you don’t need is not sensible.
This article https://debtcamel.co.uk/vt-end-car-finance-early/ looks at VTing the car and whether it would be better to just hand it back and not VT it. Or sell the car to settle the contract.
You can make an affordability complaint whether you have VTd, handed it back, settled it or had it repossessed. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/
You need to work out which would be more advantageous for you.
Curtis says
Thanks for your help Sara
I have made an affordability complaint asking them to refund the interest and collect the car, but still making payments while they consider it, and that can be for fair usage for the months I’ve had it
Will wait for a reply and if they don’t will vt the car in Jan 24 and send a complaint to the FOS
Rajan says
Hi Sara,
I had a complaint upheld with moneyway for an unaffordable loan. The complaint was upheld in May 2023, but I didn’t see the final decision email in my junk box. Last week the car was parked up and my neighbours crashed into it. The car is a write off and have given a value of £8,700.
Moneyway have stated that I need to pay the settlement figure of £11,383. Are they able to do this or should they remove all interest as per the final decision on the complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was the May decision?
Did it not occur to you that you had not had a response to your complaint?
have you been making payments since May?
RD says
In May the compliant was upheld and I was asked to return the vehicle and the contract would be terminated. My wife and I separated in May, so I have been coming to terms with that.
Yes I have been making payments. I have another payment due on the 27th December
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What do you think was a fair value of the car before the accident?
How much have you paid them since May?
Did the May decision tell you you had 6 months to take this to the Financial Ombudsman?
Rd says
Hi Sara,
I’d say at least £9,500. I’ve made 6 payments, every month since May.
I’m unsure whether I had to accept or reject the final decision by a deadline. There was nothing written in the email nor the letter itself.
Yes, it said 6 months. After that, I would no longer be able to submit the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the problem is that you can no longer accept the May decision as there is now no car to be returned. And you cannot send that complaint to the Ombudsman as you are Out of time.
You may be able to lodge a complaint say that the attitude is unreasonable given that they have accepted that the lian was unaffordable and so it should be reduced to the value of the car which was a lot less than £11383.
I suggest you offer them the 8700 that the insurance will settle for.
RD says
Hi Sara, so there has been an update.
They have accepted the original complaint and I was offered £10,000 for the write off. The insurance company sent my finance company the full £10,000.
The finance company called me today, saying I was due a refund. However, they are going to charge me 25p per mile for all miles driven. They will then subtract the amount from my refund of payments I made during the finance. They asking me to provide a photograph or a letter from the insurance company of proof of mileage.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked the insurance company for this?
RD says
I have not.
I thought the initial loan is to be paid back and any overpayment to be refunded? I haven’t read in any comments about taking a cost for wear and tear as well as the initial loan.
Mark says
I took out car finance with money barn in 2016. It ended on 2020. I found out about the affordability complaint i could make about this in 2022. I had a gambling problem, multiple payday loans with missed payments, one of which went to a ccj and i prioritised the car payments as i desperately needed a car for work to try and get myself sorted. As soon as i found out i could make the complaint, i complained to moneybarn. They refused this as it was outside of the period i could complain. So i sent it to the ombudsman. It has taken them almost a year to come to a decision as the original adjudicator left his position at the ombudsman and another adjudicator was assigned. I finally got a decision today, and they said because i made another affordability complaint against a payday loan company in 2018 (completely irrelevant to this complaint) that i should have known then that i could complain about moneybarn. And this falls outside of the 3 year limit they set. However, i knew that i had a complaint about the payday loan company then, but didnt realise that i had one with moneybarn until i actually did make the complaint in 2022! Is this right that they can take a completely irrelevant complaint and use it against me in this complaint? As i said i desperately needed a car for work to try and get my finances sorted at the time and didnt want to rock the boat and have a car taken off me i really needed. Am i just wasting my time with this now? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this decision from an adjudicator/investigator? Or is it a Final Decision from an Ombudsman?
Mark says
It is a decision from an adjudicator (not final decision from the ombudsman). It is the second adjudicator involved in this case as the first one left his position half way through looking at my case.
Mark Wilson says
I had another email off the above adjuducator today saying the reason they have declined my complaint, is purely due to the fact i made a complaint against a payday loan company in 2018 and therefore should have known then that i could make a complaint against moneybarn too. In 2018 i was half way through paying moneybarn and honestly only knew about the payday loan complaints at the time. I also would not wanted to rock the boat with moneybarn as a car was really important to me, and i wouldnt have wanted it being taken off me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should go back and argue that you thought payday loans were a special case as they were such high interest and you had no ide the same rules applied to other debts.
The payday loan claim – did you make them through a claims company? If you did, did the claims company check with you about other borrowing – if they did and never mentioned car finance, that supports your argument.
Do NOT say you didn’t want to lose the car – that would imply you were aware that you could have made a complaint and then FOS will say you should have claimed. You obviously weren’t aware of complaints about car finance or else you would have made the claim as soon as the finance had been repaid.
Mark Wilson says
Hi Sara. So the ombudsman has now sided with the adjudicator and said he also thinks i should have known within the timeframe that i could complain about car finance, as i knew about being able to complain about payday loans within that period. I honestly didnt!!
Is that it now, nothing more i can do?
If so, thanks for your help with everything.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am afraid that is it. Well in theory you could take the lender to court but you would need a solicitor to help with that, not me.
Mark Wilson says
No problem, thank you for all your help sara.
Sam says
Hi Mark,
Been in the same boat as you recently. The 6 year rule is so stupid in my opinion. It annoys me when they say we could have complained back then. Do they not realise that if we thought we could have complained, we would have done? We should start a petition to get them to change the rule!!!!! LOL!
Mark Wilson says
Its ridiculous. I told them if i knew, why on earth would i purposely keep the complaint until after the deadline to risk it failing and to make it awkward and difficult for myself?? “Backhanders” springs to mind!
Sam says
I’m convinced there is something dodgy going on. I’ve seen on here that some Ombudsman cases get looked into beyond the 6 years and some don’t!
Mark Wilson says
Thank you very much for your help.
James says
Hi Sara,
So the adjudicator has agreed in my favour but the finance company has said they don’t agree and it has gone to ombudsman for final decision.
Do you know if the ombudsman over turns much and roughly how long it takes to be resolved once sent to them?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In 90% of cases the ombudsman agrees with the adjudicator. It can be anywhere from a few weeks to several months.
James says
Perfect thank you, I will let you know how it turns out in the end.
Ciaran says
Hi Sara,
Firstly thank you for all the help you’ve provided on this site, it has helped me immensely. I’ve just now lodged a affordablilty complain with Barclays partner finance. At the time I had just turned 18 and that same day I had just got my first full time job. Before this I had only done small part time jobs not really genertating much income.
I’d just started my full time job at the time earning 19K a year yearly however I had not completed my probation. When the £14,000 car loan was provided they done no checks with my employer.
5 months later I’m sacked from the role and then end up defaulting on my payments.
I believe this to be irresponsible lending on their part. I should never of been approved for the loan especially where I had no proper employment before starting the full time job.
Do you think I have a case? I appreciate I was also naive at the time, this was 7 years ago now however I still think I should have been rejected.
Many thanks,
Ciaran
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The car would hVe been affordable if you hadn’t lost your job?
Ciaran says
Sorry my mistake, my wage would of been 19,000 after 6 months probation. It was 14,000 until then. I don’t believe it was affordable no. Factor in the insurance on top of that and also a credit card I don’t see how it’s affordable? How can you give a £14000 car finance loan to someone who’s just turned 18, only been at full time employment a week and hasn’t passed probation yet. No calls were made to the employer.
Thanks,
Ciaran
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you don’t think it was affordable on a wage of 14k then that is what you should argue. Certainly your insurance would have been high and the lender should have known that. Do you have, or can you get, your bank statements for that time? That will be the best evidence.
Ciaran says
I can get bank statements from that time. I’ve send the complaint to Barclays. I’ll wait for them to reply before sending statements.
Also the loan itself is coming up to 8 years, is this going to be an issue do you think? Ombudsman says 6 years but also 3 on top of that if not aware. I wasn’t aware about any of this until recently by coming across your site.
Thank you’
Ciaran
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Ombudsman will make a decision on whether to look at cases over 6 years old. You will probably be asked some questions about why you didn’t complain earlier. Come back here when you know what those questions are?
Marlon says
Hello,
I got a car on finance through car giant, but then fell behind on payments.
Can I apply for affordability compensation..?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you still have the car?
Marlon says
Morning,
Yes I do..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And are you currently paying? Still in arrears? How much did you borrow (before interest was added on) and how much have you paid So far?
Marlon says
No I’ve paid for it now ,but will alot of struggle.
Car price £9.698.00
Interest £2.604.00
Total 12.302.88
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then you are safe to make a complaint now. People in the early stages of HP may win the complaint but lose the car… but this doesnt apply to you.
Marlon says
Sorry to be a pain,
have you got a Web link Baraclys finance..?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
an email address? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-lenders-email-addresses/
Sarah says
Hi Sara
I have made an affordability complaint to mobilize finance (RCI finance) a week ago, and yet to hear and acknowledgement of my email or do they post a letter? I am no longer at the address my car finances would be at, I have tried to call but am on hold for up to an hour then always cuts off
Should I of received an email acknowledging my complaint by now and given a rough timeline of a final decision?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have 8 weeks to respond. If you haven’t heard anything after 4 weeks, I would try again to phone them.
Dee says
Hello,
I just wanted to share a positive update! Unfortunately, I cannot find my original message as it was sent quite some time ago.
In 2022, I lodged a complaint about my car finance from 2012. Initially, I faced challenges as it was outside the 6-year limit, and the Investigator didn’t find my reasons valid. However, an Ombudsman reviewed the case, deemed my reasons valid, and decided it could be investigated further. The Investigator eventually ruled in my favour, but Moneyway disagreed, leading the case to be escalated to the Ombudsman. Fortunately, the Ombudsman also ruled in my favor. They stated that Moneyway needed to write off the outstanding debt, refund all overpayments exceeding the fair usage amount, and remove any negative information from my credit report.
Since the decision became binding, I haven’t heard from Moneyway yet. So I have my fingers crossed they action everything without having to go back and forth.
It has been a long and stressful journey, but I couldn’t have navigated it without the invaluable information and support on this website. Thank you so much, Sara!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is good news, first that an older case has been looked into and second that at last you have a binding decision.
Out of curiosity, what were your monthly payments and what has FOS set the “fair usage” amount at?
Dee says
Thank you so much!
Sure! My monthly payments were £246 a month, and the fair usage amount was £145 for the time I had the car before it was repossessed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Thanks – it’s always interesting to know what the numbers are.
getting the debt removed from your credit record must be a huge relief
Dee says
A massive relief! So so pleased and relieved with the outcome!
Sam says
Hi Dee,
That’s great news about your result. Do you mind if I ask what the reasons were for being over the 6 years? I am having this issue at the moment, but the Ombudsman won’t budge. I understand if you don’t want to put the reasons down, just thought I’d ask as the finance company got 10k of my money that I feel they shouldnt have done.
Many thanks
Dee says
Hi Sam,
Of course, I had a health issue during that time period and was unable to deal with day to day things (such as bills) myself. The investigator wasn’t budging either initially, so I had to provide medical evidence, and asked an Ombudsman to look at it and they agreed it was a valid reason.
Gary Campbell says
I got car finance through car finance 247 they put me onto moneybarn for the loan i claimed money barn through the ombudsman for irresponsible lending and won my case my question is does car finance 247 get commission ? And who do i claim against for this ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Two points.
1) as you won an affordability complain have had a full refund of all the interest you paid There is no more interest to be refunded in a commission claim.
2) Moneybarn has a clear statement on tots website saying they have never used any discretionary commission arrangements.
So I don’t think it’s worth you doing anything.
JN says
Moneybarn, as well as many others have a generic reply regarding commission payments.
They don’t use discretionary commission arrangements.
This is a tactic used in hope you go away.
Gary Campbell says
Ive made contact with them so i await a response i will wait and see what they come back with thanks for the input appreciated 👍🏻
Gary Campbell says
Reply from money barn
Thank you for your email Mr Campbell
We appreciate you reaching out to us.
As you do request information regarding discretionary commission payments, we would advise raising your concerns with the financial ombudsman to assist and investigate this matter.
Hope the above information is helpful.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What did you ask for?
Gary Campbell says
I used the debt camel template for car finance commission sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, I am not sure why you have sent this? You have already had a full repayment of ALL the interest Moneybarn charged as you won your affordability complaint, haven’t you? If that is correct, there is nothing more to be refunded.
Carrie says
Hi Sarah,
Quick question…. I had a vehicle on finance from Motonovo. The have sent me a copy of the agreement with my signature on however on the part where their signature is supposed to be it is blank, and also blank on the date. Is this enforceable? Many thanks
C
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what exactly did you ask them for – a copy of the Consumer Credit Act agreement?
Carrie says
Just a copy of the original agreement
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can I ask why you requested this? Has the car finance been repaid?
Gary Campbell says
Yes my finance was paid and settled
This is what i sent them
After reading the information from the FCA about discretionary commission arrangements on car finance, I would like to know what commission was paid.
I would like you to tell me if you used a discretionary commission arrangement on my finance and to give me details of that arrangement. This is not a complaint, I am just asking for the information
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then there is no point in asking about discretionary commission as all the interest you paid has already been refunded.
Gary Campbell says
Surely an irresponsible lending complaint is a completely different claim to the commission claim tho ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it is. But you can’t get the same money refunded twice. Say you paid £3000 in interest on this car finance (I just made that up). You have now had that refunded so effectively you were not charged any interest on the finance. There is no more money to be refunded to you.
Steve says
Had a response RE affordability complaint from a lender for car finance. I supplied 3 months bank statements leading up to loan and credit file along with points why I felt it was unaffordable, such as listing my income/expenditure and having to take on further credit. Lender has now asked for 2 months worth of bank statements after the agreement to help them consider my complaint – is this usual? I’ve had 2 previous similar complaints from the same time period with FOS and they’ve never asked for this before, I think because it’s irrelevant. Anyone seen this before and what would they advise? I am reluctant to supply any info that shouldn’t be required. They have stated that if I don’t send they will processs my complaint on the info they have available. Car is fully paid off from cheaper loan obtained 2 years later.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s common for the Ombudsman to ask for 3 months statements before and three afterwards.
Fred says
I have a complaint in with Motonovo. they were very quick to ask for my info within an hour of making the complaint. but it’s now been 12 weeks and not had a final response. i contacted them last week and they said my complaint has not yet been assigned to a case handler.
Shall I go to the ombusdman now? I do have some additonal information I’d like to send motonovo now to support my complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes send this to the Ombudsman. Shame you didn’t go at 8 weeks.
Fred says
I will do it today. I was just wondering though if my extra info I wanted to send to Motonovo may be disregarded as I didn’t send it with my orignal complaint.
the extra info is a credit file of the time and my full expenditure. They only asked for my bank statements
Sara (Debt Camel) says
they shouldnt disregard that.
Karen says
I want to start an affordability claim against money barn, however I took it out through 24/7, it was financed by money barn. Who do I initially put a claim in against? I’m thinking it is money barn, is that correct? The loan has been paid off a year but I struggled and they put bad markets against my credit file. I ended up borrowing money to clear it to stop the default being recorded.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes it’s a claim against moneybarn because they made the poor decision to lend to you. Get this in as soon as possible because cases are faster if it’s under 6 years since the finance started
Rhiannon Herman says
Hi.
First response finance came and collected my vehicle last Wednesday 7th after I’d proceeded with voluntary termination. I’d only had the car 10 months but became unaffordable, I have agreed a lower monthly payment with the finance company. I believe I have a case for an affordability complaint based on the amount of debt I had at the time of being accepted and I had to work extra to pay for the vehicle. Do you have an email address or where I can find one for first response finance to make the complaint please? Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is an address in my list here https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-lenders-email-addresses/
Gfsku says
Does anyone know a company that would help me do a complaint of unaffordable loan to moneygram so that I feel confident through the process of complaining?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Moneygram is a money transfer service – do you mean moneybarn? If you do, do you still have the car?
Gfsku says
Sorry I meant moneybarn yes. I have the car,still paying monthly for it. The car cost was 4,950 but with interest charges I have to pay back to moneybarn 10,500. Up until now,I have paid 5,250 or so. Just not sure if that means I have paid for the loan and only left with interest charges to pay now. I am thinking to complain for unaffordable lending but I am anxious to do so by myself.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you have repaid more than you borrowed, – the car is not at risk if you win the complaint. Just send in a complaint and come back here with any queries – many moneybarn cases have to go to the ombudsman but they do settle some directly. Claims companies use the same sort of template I have provided and ombudsman statistics show you are not more likely to win a claim if you use a claims company… also i guess you don’t have a couple of thousand to pay a claims company’s fee if you do win… so you end up in debt there and i have seen people taken to court by a claims company for a CCJ (though that is now unusual)
Fred says
Motonovo have been so slow with my complaint. I have already sent it to ombudsman. I have been waiting 17 weeks for a reply and they keep telling me that they haven’t been able to allocate it to anyone yet as they have a large number of complaints. even though I have sent it to the ombudsman is it worth that I still keep chasing them for a response.
It’s really strange as when I first sent my complaint they got back to me within 30 mins asking for statements etc.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No there is no point in chasing Motonovo now this is with FOS.
C m says
Afternoon Sara
So the investigator rejected my complaint, I’ve rejected there decision, and asked for the adjudicator to look at it, could you please help me and review what they sent me if you private mail me
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
sorry no, can you copy the relevant bits saying why tey think it was affordable in here please
C m says
Because they said after all my bills and credit commitments the new payment of £560 fell into £660 disposable income I should have,
I’ve rejected saying leading 12 months prior I was living paycheck to paycheck and never out of my overdraft and increasing the car payment made me miss bills after I took the new agreement on
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you agree that you had 660 a month disposable income?
Are you saying that 12 months before the car finance started you were permanently in your overdraft but by the time of the car finance you weren’t?
C m says
Always been in my overdraft, never had savings, and I never had disposable income , certainly not the amount the investigator claims
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has the investigator explained how they calculated that?
Adam hill says
Hi sara,
I complained to moneybarn following your template for affordability and it was not agreed by them, so have take it to the FOS and have received a reply from the investigator and would be really grateful if you could give me some advice in replying to him. He asked ‘ Please outline when you felt the agreement granted to you by Moneybarn was unaffordable’. At the time I took out the agreement I was at the limit of a £1500 overdraft and had multiple debts which I have provided evidence of already. The car finance was in 2014 for £6000 and paid £11500 and completed the the agreement through struggling and missing many payments and falling behind over the 54 month period of the contract agreement.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is a check by the Ombudsman because the loan started more than 6 years ago.
Typical replies for car finance would be (but don’t just copy this, it has to be right for what happened to you):
“I knew it was hard to keep up with the Moneybarn payments and I missed quite a few and struggled to catch up. But it was essential for me to keep the car and I just thought this was my responsibility for being bad with money, having so much other debt and taking out such expensive finance from Moneybarn. I wasn’t aware at that time that Moneybarn should have checked the finance would be “affordable” for me, so I didn’t realise that Moneybarn had done anything wrong by giving me the finance and had no reason to complain. When I found out recently what “affordable lending” meant, it became clear to me that Moneybarn could not have made adequate checks before giving me the finance so I then promptly made a complaint.”
Adam hill says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for the advice I will use the information you provided and tailor it to my circumstances and let you know how I get on.
Many Thanks
Adam
Jane says
Hi, I took car finance with Moneybarn in 2020, I complained about irresponsible lending in Feb and requested SAR. I recieved this today and there is nothing at all for affordability or credit check. Should they have some sort of a report of my credit file at the time?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well yes. But have they repied to your affordabilty complaint?
Jane says
No, not yet, they still have 2 weeks until the 8 week point. They have sent an update letter to say they are looking at it.
Jane says
Just an update, today was the last day for 8 weeks before sending to FOS. Moneybarn have just emailed to say they uphold my complaint. I am getting a refund and the car signed over to me. It’s been painless and quick.
Thank you so much for your site – you have been invaluable.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Very good news for you
Rachel says
I sent an affordability complaint to moneybarn on behalf of my partner. They replied with in days of my complaint nothing mentioned regarding bank statements or wage slips but said they did a check on his pay via credit reference agencies. Is this a valid and full proof way? Or shall I send to an ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you think a proper check on his income, credit record and expenses would have shown the finance was unaffordable? If so, send it to the Ombudsman
Steven Davies says
Hi, I took out finance with Oodle in 2019. I put in an affordability complaint because at the time of application i was 6+ months in arrears on two separate loans as well as alot of other adverse credit.
The finance was applied for through the dealer and no information was given other than some rough employment figures but no proof.
I requested my SAR and this doesn’t show any credit checks or affordability checks etc, but having checked my own records a hard search was carried out, so im wondering why this was not in my SAR.
I received a final response from Oodle saying they do not uphold my complaint, so I have now forwarded my complaint to the ombudsman
Steven Davies says
Is it unusual for the credit check etc to not be in my SAR Sara?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know
Steven Davies says
Ah okay thanks, I just assumed as it is essentially my data it would of had to be included with my SAR if they had it on file
Rhiannon Herman says
Hi.
I’ve heard back from the investigator at the ombudsman advising they do not uphold my complaint as they believe first response finance did their correct checks and advised they felt based on my income they believe I had enough income to afford these payments even though I’ve mentioned my salary was part overtime which I could no longer do shortly after I took the agreement around 2 months after due to my mental health struggles. The investigator said as I didn’t advise first response finance part of my salary was overtime they can’t uphold it. I don’t feel like this is fair as I had lots of debt which they’ve calculated for but due to my increased temporary income they felt I could afford the car which I couldn’t and ended up in further debt and ended up on a DMP to be able to afford the car. Is there anything you can advise me to say when I go back to the investigator please to fight my case? Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long had you been doing the overtime for? Was it just the odd month or regular?
Rhiannon Herman says
I’d been doing the overtime since the December 2022 and took the finance out in March 2023.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it is probably fair for the finance lender to assume you will carry ion with that income. Can you show the finance was unaffordable if you were paid that overtime?
Rhiannon Herman says
Do you mean can I show if the finance was unaffordable if I wasn’t paid the overtime? Or if I was paid the overtime sorry?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you were Paid the overtime
Rhiannon Herman says
According to the investigator and First response finance it showed I had £600 odd left a month which meant to them the car payment of £240 a month was affordable.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes but do you agree with that calculation? or does it ignore lots of expenses
Rhiannon Herman says
I feel like I should go back and ask them for a breakdown of the total expenses they calculated for me and then I can see if it’s reasonable or not. They provided me with a figure of my outgoings but no breakdown of what things they had calculated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good idea
Rhiannon Herman says
I went back to the investigator explaining why I disagree with her decision and asked her for a breakdown of all the expenditure they based the complaint on. It wasn’t a full breakdown but I was satisfied with the figures. However I am not satisfied with the finance companies explanation of their checks on whether I could afford the finance based on the concerns that were visible on my credit file. The finance company should have asked for proof of my income which they did not, at this point I’d have been able to tell them my overtime was part of my income and not a constant source of income. Based on this I’ve asked the investigator to send my complaint for a final decision by the ombudsman. If they say it’s not upheld then nothing more I can do but going to see what they say.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is a good point to make. I havent heard someone argue that before.
Daniel says
Hi Sara,
Just want to say a big thank you for your template and help with my PCP affordability claim.
BPF initially turned down the claim saying it was affordable, I then sent it off to Ombudsman, after a few emails back and forth, my affordability claim was upheld!
BPF agreed with the Ombudsman and all the interest I paid plus the 8% Simple interest was paid back to me, just over £5k in total.
Thank you once again for your help
Dan
Janie says
Hi Sara
My OH submitted an affordability complaint to Oodle Finance, they rejected it and he sent it to the financial ombudsman, he has just had a response to say they agree with Oodle, that they did the correct checks and based on ONS data and the credit check they did, it was affordable.
My OH can ask an ombudsman to look at it, do you know if complaints are ever successful after not being upheld an assessor?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was his credit record like when he got the finance? have you supplied the ombudsman with bank statements? what interest rate was the finance?
janie says
Hi Sara,
He Submitted bank statements to FOS which showed many gambling sites. He had a CCJ and 2 defaults. The car was £15,700 and he repaid 21,400
The finance was taken out in 2018 and repaid in August .
He had just taken out a new credit card and the FOS said it was being managed well. The usage on the card increased as my OH prioritised the car payments.
The company he initially approached struggled all day trying to get someone to finance the car before Oodle agreed. It also looks like the credit check was conducted the day after he signed the paperwork. He had only seen pictures of the car and didn’t physically visit the site until he picked up the car. He was desperate for a car and was surprised Oodle had agreed to finance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes taking a complaint to the ombudsman can work.
He should reply to the adjudicator/investigator and say:
– he had an unsatisfied CCJ and defaults on his credit record, so Ooodle should have looked more closely and not assumed they could use ONS data
– it looks from the date of the credit check that that was made after he had signed the finance agreement
– if they had looked more closely they would have seen his gambling problem.
janie says
Hi Sara,
In their response the adjudicator said the following, I have considered the CCJ and defaulted debt and given the amount of time that had passed between these and this application, I don’t think it would have been fair for Oodle to use this historic information against you.
The CCJ was only 2 years before he got the car, the defaults, one of them was 3 years before and the other was probably not counted.
Thank you, i will ask my OH to request its forward to ombudsman
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was the CCJ unsatisfied? If it was, then I think you should say that it is fair not to reject someone because of a 2 year old CCJ, but if it is unsatisfied it is still a red flag that someone’s finances may not be under control so Oodle should have looked to verify
Y information and not relied on ONS statistical averages.
janie says
It was unsatisfied, thank you, he’s going to ask for it to be reviewed again by ombudsman
Jan says
Hi Sara
Just to let you know my OH asked for his complaint to be passed to an ombudsman for final decision. The adjudicator had previously said that Oodle had not done anything wrong when they had completed their checks, the ombudsman said he believed that they didn’t carry out sufficient checks.
They went on to say that despite this he wouldn’t be upholding my OH’s complaint.
In a nutshell he accepts the real reason for my OH inability to make his payments under the agreement wasn’t due to living expenses or credit commitments and this is apparent to him when looking at bank statements. It’s also possible but not certain that Oodle may have taken a different decision had they seen the bank statements at the time. The ombudsman didn’t think Oodle could reasonably be expected to have known about the nature and extent of the gambling at the time.
Obviously this is a very disappointing result fir my OH…
We would like to thank you for all your help/support you have provided, it really is much appreciated.
Steven says
Hi Janie,
Did Oodle request bank statements, proof of income etc from your O/H at the time of application
Also did your O/H request his subject access request, and does it show that they carried out a credit check
Oodle have provided me with my SAR however there is no evidence to show a credit check was carried out and also no details regarding affordability check
janie says
Hi Steven,
He didn’t submit a SAR but can see the credit check was done by Oodle on his credit file, this was completed the day after signing the paperwork. He can’t remember if the company that provided the car requested evidence of his salary via payslips, they definitely didn’t ask for copies of bank statements.
Steven says
Hi Janie,
Thanks for your reply
I find it strange that if Oodle had records of someone’s credit check on file, that it would not be included with their SAR
They asked me for absolutely no documentation at all. At the time of application I was 6+ months in arrears on two separate loans, maxed out 5x credit cards, maxed out catalogues and only paying minimum payments for years. An unsatisfied CCJ for nearly 2k and on a low income
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Don’t get hung up on the SAR. Just get on with the complaint.
Steven says
Hi Sara
Thank you for your message
Yes I have reported it to the ombudsman. The investigator got back to me within a week to request documentation which I have sent, so just waiting for them to get in touch further
Steven says
Hi Sara
I have had a reply back from the investigator stating they don’t think Oodle need to do anything and then showing a very poor calculation of my expenditure that doesn’t include most of the credit commitments I have informed them of
They do say they cannot include anything that I dont have evidence for, but with essential living costs isn’t it unlikely most people could prove those type of costs from years ago. The utilities and shopping etc was always debited from my partners account. Can they disregard actual living costs?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago was the finance taken out? You no longer have bank statements? Were you transferring money to your partner for living costs? Does your partner have bank statements showing that?
Steven says
Hi Sara
The finance only started 4 years ago. Yes I have statements but as the majority of my essential living costs were being paid by my partner as I didn’t have enough money left, this would be on her statements which I have access to if necessary. The way it was put to me by the investigator was proof of everything including all essential living costs is necessary, but how is that possible when people purchase some things with cash and have handouts from people. Surely essential living costs cannot be disregarded because a partner is helping you out financially with their income. I was transferring around £250/month to my partner towards my share of the rent and other essential living costs as this was all I had left. I think they are going to say the £250 was my total essential living costs as this was all i contributed which I think is really unreasonable
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you supply your partner’s bank statements and point out that £250 a month was clearly inadequate to cover your share of the living expenses.
And also list again your other debts and the amounts that should have been paid to those. It would have been clear to oodle from your credit record that you were struggling badly already so there was little chance of being able to afford the car finance.
Ask for this to go to an ombudsman if the investigator doesn’t change their mind
Fred says
motonovo are really delaying my complaint as much as they can.
they took double the time to reply when I first complained. and now everytime the investigator asks them to respond to their findingings they delay it or add a bit more info to string it a long a bit more. it’s a shame really. looks like it will end up with the ombudsman.
Lisa says
Hi, I am with Motonovo as well, can you please give me timescales, how long it’s taken you from your complaint to actually receiving final response letter?
Thanks
Sam Saint says
Hi. I have a HP agreement with Specialist Motor Finance. I borrowed £6,484 over 60 months at £165.25 – total payable £9,915.
I’ve been struggling to keep up with the payments for a while but the car is essential. I was in a lot of other debt when I took out the agreement with payday loans and credit cards etc. (I’ve won a few affordability complaints previously thanks to this site). I did consider an affordability complaint a while ago for the car finance – I was thinking maybe a payment plan could be put in place for the remainder of the principal if the complaint were upheld but I didn’t know if that were possible and didn’t want to risk having to return the car.
Fast forward a while and I’ve currently made 27 payments amounting to £4461 so just over £2k left on the principal. My question is, if I were to make an affordability complaint now, would I likely need to surrender the car after paying over two thirds of the principal? Would you recommend waiting until the principal has been paid off, or maybe a few months before as the complaint could take a while? – This would take me just over a year with the current payments. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest a few months before. As you say, the complaint will take a while.
HG says
Hi Sara, I complained to Toyota about irresponsible finance and this is their response:
Thank you for contacting Toyota Financial Services and for letting us know about your concerns.
We have reviewed the information you have provided us and have been unable to locate any record for you.
If you had an agreement that closed more than 6 years ago, the information would be anonymised as it falls outside of our retention period. Therefore, we do not hold any Personal Data for you.
The two cars which I am complaining about were purchased in 2012 and 2013.
Any next steps?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask the dealer you bought the cars from the same question about discretionary commission
HG says
Unfortunately the dealer was Toyota directly… I doubt I have the original agreements.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The dealer may still have separate records.
HG says
Having been round the houses, no one at Toyota holds agreements after 6 years. Interesting! I don’t have copies either
Reg says
Hello, In 2016 I had 2 cars which I defaulting on both. I was transferring money from savings to try make payments. First car I could afford however financial circumstances changed. Second car I was usually overdrawn. No affordability checks were done on both. Can I make an affordability complaint for the second car which was handed Back to them before the agreement ended in 2017-2018. I had defaults on my credit report, now removed due to 6+ years. Due to defaults, my credit score has gone from excellent to poor. Does your credit score revert back to what it was prior to the default or do you need to build this up again, if so can I ask them to contact the credit reference agency as part of the complaint for the second car or can they no longer do anything since the default has been fully removed from my report?
If discretionary commission was added to the first car, can I claim anything back and if so can I claim on the full interest they added (whatever the refund process is) or will it be partially looked at as when the first car defaulted they passed it onto a solicitor to recover which i have been repaying them on a monthly basis however they did mention since the case was passed onto them they are only recovering the balance outstanding excluding interest. Both cars were almost £38k each with round 11% interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you had these two cars at the same time? From the same lender?
Andrew Clewley says
I took out car finance in 2020 with First Response Finance. I made the payments but had to fall behind with priority dedts. I had some arrears the beginning of 2023 which I cleared and then 3 months at the end of 2023 which I cleared. They submitted a possession order which I defended by claim I had no arrears but ended up having to submit a request to agreed payment to suspend it by paying the amount I was already paying. In the meantime I submitted an affordable claim which they declined and I then submitted to the Financial Ombudsman. They didn’t uphold this as they state I should have raised the affordability as my defence. This was not an option and would not have been relevant. I have appealed this but what can I do going forward is they decline my appeal.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were you aware of what an affordability complaint was when they went to court? Did you take any debt advice at that point?
Andrew Clewley says
I submitted the claim before going to court but it was a possession order so could only defend with agreeing a payment plan and requesting a suspension on the order. I was told other defence could be used in a possession order as it came under the consumer credit act and they had already issued the default for the first lot of arrears.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I was told other defence could be used in a possession order
What other defences were you told could be used?
Who told you this?
Andrew Clewley says
The judge said I could not use any defence other than submitting a request too agree a repayment plan as it was a possession order. I did this and it was accepted and the possession was suspended. But now the financial ombudsman says I should have used affordability as a defence.
Should I stop paying and get them to take me back to court and use the affordability as a defence.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No, go back to the Ombudsman and say what you were told.
Jelizaveta says
Hello Sara,
In August 2021 I have taken out an HP car finance with MotoNovo, the amount was 15980£, tha car we bought was 12700, at the moment I have only 1900£ to repay of the car value, which is 6 monthly payments. I believe my car finance was unaffordable at the time. Should I start the process now? Or wait a little longer as I don’t want to loose my car.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok I misunderstood what you wrote.
To double check, how much did you borrow, excluding interest? And how much have you paid to Motonovo so far, the sum of all your monthly payments
Jelizaveta says
I have borrowed 12700, I have made 34 monthly payments of 315.58. Which makes it 10729.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest waiting another three months. Sorry but it’s best to be safe.
Lisa says
So if it takes for example 4 month to get the final response from them and I will have 2 payments left to finish off paying what I have initially borrowed they will anyway take a car? Or they will offer me to pay the remaining balance to keep the car?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
More likely they will reject your claim and it has to go to the Ombudsman. You may be fine doing this now. but another couple of months seems safer. How desperate is your situation? Do you have other debts that you are paying?
Lisa says
Not desperate at all, just thought to cut the waiting times.