Was your car finance unaffordable?
The FCA, who regulates car finance lenders. and the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) say:
a loan is only affordable if you can make the repayments on time, without hardship and still meeting your other commitments.
That means you need to be able to pay all your other debts, your normal household bills and expenses as well as the new car loan payments.
You may have made your car finance a top priority as you don’t want the car to be repossessed. As a result you may have had increasing credit card balances, more loans or got behind with bills. That means even though you kept making the payments, the finance was not “affordable”.
Contents
Affordability checks
A lender should have checked you could afford the car finance. This may mean checking not just your credit record, but also your income and expenses as well.
These checks have to be “proportionate”. If you have got a great credit record and a good income and are only borrowing a small amount, the lender isn’t going to have to look in great detail to be confident you can afford it.
But with a poor credit record, or where the repayments will be a large proportion of your income, better checks are needed. The FCA rules don’t say exactly what has to be done, but a lender often can’t rely on what the customer says their income and expenses are. Other ways to check include:
- your credit record shows what you are paying to other debts each month;
- there are national average figures for some expenses, so your estimate that you spend £60 a month on food or nothing on clothes isn’t realistic;
- the lender could look at payslips or bank statements to be sure.
These checks are often inadequate
The regulator thinks some car finance lenders are not checking properly for affordability. In 2019, the FCA said:
Here is an extreme case ‘Car payments are ruining our lives’ where a 23 year old student with a part-time job was sold a 21k Audi on finance, with apparently no affordability checks at all.
But it’s probably more common that a quick and inadequate check was done.
A car finance expert makes a lot of excellent points in this article: The car industry need to be more honest when selling car finance. He says:
It’s time for the car industry to do better, even if it’s to save customers from themselves.
“Affordability” is a test of your situation when you took the finance
The car finance company may have done a good assessment of affordability. At the start, you may have been able to manage the loan repayments.
Then something went wrong – perhaps you had your hours cut, or you split up with your partner. Or rising bills in 2022 mean what was manageable before isn’t any more. Here it’s not the lender’s fault that the car finance is now unaffordable and you won’t win an affordability complaint. Read Can you afford your car finance payments? which looks at your options in this situation.
But should the lender have seen that the loan was too expensive at the start if they had looked properly when you applied for the credit?
In this case, you can make an affordability complaint to the lender.
How to make a car finance affordability complaint
The affordability rules for car finance are the same as for other loans. So you can follow the approach and use the template letter for an affordability complaint in this article: How to ask for a refund from large, bad credit loans.
The template letter in that article asks for:
- a refund of the interest on the finance;
- for the remaining balance to be repaid at an affordable rate; and
- for any negative marks to be removed from your credit record.
If you have other serious complaints about the car, such as poor quality, you can add those into the standard affordability complaint letter.
A lot of lenders reject even good complaints. So don’t be depressed if this happens – just send it to the Financial Ombudsman – the process is all described in the above link.
What happens if you win the complaint?
If you win an affordability complaint for a normal loan, you get the interest refunded and if the loan is still running, your balance is reduced. It’s more complicated with car finance complaints.
You may wonder what happens if your car was repossessed and you had paid little or no interest?
If you still have the car finance, will you be able to keep the car?
See Car finance affordability – what you get if you win a complaint which looks at the different situations and what the ombudsman usually decides. It has some links to Ombudsman decisions – including one for a brand-new BMW!
Still have the car? You must keep paying the car finance
These complaints may take many months. You will have to keep up the loan repayments during this time, or your car may be repossessed.
Read Can you manage to pay your car finance? which looks at your options when you don’t think you can keep on paying while the complaint goes through.
Other sorts of car finance claims
€ar finance commission – cases won at the Ombudsman
In January 2024, 2 major cases were won at the Financial Ombudsman were people had been charged to high an interest rate on car finance in order to increase the commission the car dealer got.
See Car finance commission scandal – can you get a refund? for details and how to start a claim.
But if you think you may have a good affordability complaint it’s probably worth trying that first, as in an affordability complaint you get all the interest refunded, but in a commission complaint you would only get some of the interest back.
“Dieselgate” – a totally different sort of claim
You may have seen ads saying you may be able to get £,000s back as diesel cars were mis-sold because they produced more harmful emissions than advertised.
MSE has written a good article on these claims, with a list of the law firms you can use and what they charge. This is not a complaint you can sensibly try to do yourself. I have no idea how likely a payout is and it may take a long while.
Get interest refunded from large loans
Which debts are top priority?
How to end your car finance early
Steve says
Is anyone aware of an affordability case over 6 years that has agreed to be looked at by FOS? I wanted to review in anticipation of a complaint with Black Horse taken Mar 2010 for car loan. I am in the position whereby I’ve utilised the FOS on multiple occasions for affordability complaints and can see them referencing this and that I should have been aware I could complain etc.. Truth is I actually didn’t know, would like to put forward a strong a case as possible. I saw an add on Instagram in actual fact and then started looking into the matter leading me to the recent FCA review on car financing. Any advice welcome. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have your bank statements going back to 2010?
Steve says
Hi Sara, just to answer your question. Yes, I will have the bank statements going back to 3 months before/after finance creation this week. Many thanks. P.S- The below comment regarding a pay day loan wasn’t me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you may as well give it a go! The further back, the harder it is to prove but if you have bank statements that helps a lot. FOS does sometimes go back further then 6 years and you can argue that you had no idea that these complaints applied to car finance.
(There are two Steve’s posting here,)
Steve says
Thank you. I will let you know how I get on. If you do happen to come across any FOS responses agreeing to disagree with the lender on the 6 year rule, I would hugely appreciate you sharing. Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Over 6 years definitely happens. Yours is more complicated because you have made previous FOS complaints
Steve says
Yes totally get that. I will ensure I put a strong evidenced case together and think about a good argument to prove that I was totally unaware you could make affordability complaints relating to car finance. Was thinking about using it (the fact I have made prev complaints) as a strength and saying I would surely have complained if I knew, as I have a somewhat decent understanding of affordability complaints. Thank you for getting back to me.
Stephen says
Yes, I have one from a application for a payday loan
Emma says
Hi Sara, I have escalated my claim to FOS regarding unaffordable car finance. I’m only a year into paying it with 4 years left. If I win the case what will happen with regards to the car?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See the What happens if you win the complaint? Section in the article above
Ernest says
Good afternoon Sara .. just to update you about my car finance complain ( marsh finance) Adjudicator upheld my complaint for 2018 and 2022 but not 2015 due time limit.. but marsh write back last week to Adjudicator that they should not look at the complaint for 2018 and 2020 because fos did mot look at complain of 2015 but Adjudicator wrote to them back last week to explain to them they can’t look at 2015 but they can 2018 and 2020
But they reject them complain of 2018 and 2020 yesterday .. then Adjudicator send it to Ombudsman final decision yesterday. What do you think is the next step now pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Wait for the Ombudsman decision. Marsh’s logic doesn’t sound good to me…
Drew says
email from Moneybarn as follows:
Thank you for confirmation of our data protection requirements.
I am sorry you feel the need to raise a complaint and I can do this for you but would like to speak to you to get all the information we need to expedite such a complaint.
If you would prefer not to do this by phone call then we can open a complaint and will conduct this through our complaints procedure but will need a little more information.
I have gone back through your account and notice that we provided you with 6 payment holidays. You noted to us that when you went back to work you were on lesser pay and that we set up a payment plan to deal with those arrears created. I can also see that you raised a query with us regarding your credit file. You mention that we had you marked down with arrears when in fact it was payment holidays and thus classed as missing payments and not arrears. If your credit file was impacted by an error on Moneybarn’s part then sending us evidence will enable us to investigate and make amends where appropriate….
Your email states that this was an unaffordable loan so to give our complaints department as much information as possible perhaps you can expand on why it was unaffordable. I can assure the matter will be fully investigated and if you are not happy with our response then the matter can go to an Ombudsman. They will request our file and will provide a response as to whether there is a case to answer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That was long so I have trimmed it.
Have you sent them your bank statements, 3 months before and 3 months after the finance started?
Drew says
No as they weren’t directly asked for.. I did say though that because of the length of their email and pressure put on me to call them I felt they were trying to trick me somehow…. I am awaiting their secondary response
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s always good to send bank statements, they prove the loan was unaffordable. But I wouldn’t prolong this now, if you don’t get a good reply from them send the complaint and the the bank statements to the Ombudsman. Where Mineybarn are losing a lot of these complaints.
Drew says
Email from Moneybarn today stating they haven’t been able to conclude the investigation into my complaint in time and I am now free to refer to the ombudsman.
What do I need tell / send the ombudsman now, just a letter / email saying why I complained to Moneybarn?
Are there templates available ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think they are getting a lot of complaints… See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/#The_lender_replies_-_go_to_the_Ombudsman_if_a_poor_offer which says how to send the complaint to the ombudsman. This can just be what you sent to MB plus attach the reply form MB saying you can now go to FOS.
If you have your bank statements and a copy of your credit record, attach those to the FOS complaint, don’t wait to be asked. If you don’t, send in the FOS complaint now and set about getting the statements and credit report to add later.
Ross says
Hi has anyone had success for unaffordable claim against black horse finance , I’ve emailed them and they agnowladged the complaint
Simon says
Yes I have. Was really surprised when they upheld my complaint after no time at all. I was expecting to play the long game through the Financial Ombudsman but black horse agreed with me pretty much straight away
Ross says
Hi thanks for the reply , ok that’s great to hear thanks , how long after complaining did it take for refund ? I’ve emailed the complaint and got secure email saying the will contact me once it’s been assigned to complaints manager , I had multiple pay day loans and was still on a DMP when I got the finance and I’ve sent them bank statements showing my payments too them , my credit score was also poor , I fell into arrears with my car finance during the time I had the car so hopefully have a case
Can u confirm if it was all the interest charges and 8 percent u got offered thanks
Ross says
All good they upheld complaint after 3 weeks and refunded £5900 and removing the couple late payment markers I had during covid
Neil says
Anyone else still waiting to be assigned a case agent from financial ombudsman for unaffordable lending? Been waiting 7 months now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who is the lender? have you asked what the problem is?
Neil says
Moneybarn when i contacted financial ombudsman they saying its because of the amount of complaints they are dealing with and just got to wait
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Interesting.
Has the car finance ended?
Ernest says
They picked my own complaint almost 8 months just waiting for Ombudsman for final decision now
Neil says
Yeah all ended, it seems when moneybarn found out i put the complaint in with financial ombudsman they wiped out my arrears and what was left to pay claiming they did it because of the cost of living. Car was nearly 18k and would have to pay back 32k but ended up paying 27k
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok so you aren’t in a major difficulty at the moment because of this.
Fechan says
Hi Sara, I have received the final response from MoneyBarn:
As part of your application process, we performed several checks on which we based our decision to offer you a loan. These included:
A full credit search with Experian. This provided details such as your current borrowing levels; the repayment history, including any arrears; and past defaulted accounts.
We applied a calculation for your monthly repayment offer based on your income, to allow for appropriate non-discretionary expenditure.
Your existing borrowing levels were low.
There were no recent missed repayments reported on your file and your file showed a strong ability to meet your credit commitments.
Whilst we could see that you had defaulted on previous borrowing, the most recent had been entered 10 months prior to your application, and you had made contributions towards repaying the sums owed.
There were no County Court Judgments or insolvency information on your file.
I am satisfied that the checks that were completed at the point of sale were adequate, proportionate and the decision to lend the finance was dependant on the information obtained from the Credit Reference Agencies, your proof of income and your declaration under the terms of your contract that stated that the agreement was and would be affordable for you, thereafter.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It doesn’t sound as though MB made any attempt to estimate your expenses – so how can they know this was affordable?
You are the one that knows if this car fiance was unaffordable – did making the payments cause you difficulty from the start?
Fechan says
Hi Sara, that correct they did not attempt to estimate my expenses, so they could not have accurate known what was affordable.
Yes making the car payments caused me financial difficulties from the start, it caused me to fall into rent and council tax arrears. I wasn’t asked about any financial commitments. The car dealership dealt with all the paperwork. I did a SAR, and saw that £0 was entered against expenditure.
I have now gone to FOS, with this complaint and will let you know how I get on.
John Duddigan says
I am still waiting for a FOS Case Handler to be assigned to my Complaint v Startline Motor Finance and TrustFord.
I get told today when I phoned FOS that it could be anything up to a further 6 months before a Case Handler is assigned.
Not very good service on FOS part
John Duddigan says
Am Still waiting for a Case Handler from FOS to be assigned to my complaint. FOS have had complaint since September 2022. Complaint is against Startline Motor Finance. I am still paying what I can afford but not the full monthly amount. Is this usually the length of time it takes
Sara (Debt Camel) says
4 months is quite common.
John Duddigan says
Hi Sarah
Can Startline Motor Finance still start Repossession of Car even when there is a Complaint with FOS but waiting for a Case Handler.
Is it worth me contacting Startline asking them to put things on hold till the outcome from FOS is known
The cost of Car was £8200
I have repaid that amount but its the extras that TrustFord asked Startline to add to the Finance Agreement which I didn’t agree to and the Interest I am finding difficult to repay.
Is it worth me offering a reduced monthly payment while FOS are investigating the complaint. I can’t afford the full payment as per Agreement . I will say there are some arrears they are chasing me for.
The only other option is to ask for Voluntary Return of Car.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are they threatening this?
You have to keep paying car finance even when there is a case at the Ombudsman. If you can’t pay in full, offer as much as you can.
Assuming the car is essential. If it isn’t, you can look at voluntarily terminating this.
Paul says
Hi Sara
I had an agreement with Santander CS, was for 60 months and has just finished including 6 month Covid payment holiday. I still have an outstanding balance of £1400 but finance alone was 9k. I have offered to repay the remaining at £140 monthly but had no respons. Would you advise to submit a complaint now and ask for collection activities to be stopped until the outcome of the complaint? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the balance owing is because of the covid holiday?
and you think that the finance was unaffordable from the beginning?
Paul says
The balance owing is because I have had payment plans which I have struggled to repay. The agreement was unaffordable from the beginning and my credit report would have shown I defaulted on a PCP payment a few month prior to taking this out. The monthly payment was £538.50. Can they still look to repossess if the agreement has came to an end, this is what I am worried about.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes they can. I suggest you make a complain asap (it is important that a complaint goes to the Ombudsman within 6 years of the finance being taken – although a complaint can be made later it is much simpler nd faster if it is within the 6 year time) but carry on making payments according to the payment plan.
Lauren says
Need some advice so I took moneybarns loan out 2 years ago I put £2000 deposit down the car was 13k paying more than double back 24k for 5 years I paid 25payment of £380 a month witch is really high I complained to them they are willing take the car back wipe my debt and pay me 6k but I wanted keep the car as I don’t want them fetching it then got wait 10 days for them give me the 6k then got wait to obvs fetch a new car I can’t go without a car as I’m a single mum have to do school runs and stuff
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I complained to them they are willing take the car back wipe my debt and pay me 6k
Just to be clear, you made an affordability complaint?
jason says
Hi Sara,
I’m hoping you can help me with working out the simple interest amount I’ve won a case against blue motor finance and the ombudsman as said this “It should add 8% simple interest per year* from the date of each overpayment to the date of settlement”
I paid off the car in July this year car amount was £9974 with interest I have paid a full amount of £18656.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you say how much you were paying a month to this?
PS nice refund!
Jason says
Hi Sara, yes I was paying £303 per month with a final payment of £460 and yes it will be, since coming across this website and your help I have received/written off over £22000 once this one comes through, so thank you very much.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the exact number depends on a lot of details.. But a quick squint at those suggests the 8% should be over £1000.
Jason says
Ok that’s great, I shall see what they come back to me with, thanks again
Lauren Fabre says
I contacted the Financial Ombudsman Service about not being happy with the out come they said I could be look at 4 months for just someone to look at my case
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is normal. Sometimes it is picked up earlier.
Jane Guvenir says
I sent mine in March and it’s still not allocated to a case manager!!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sent to FOS in March or Moneybarn?
Yours was over 6 years old so it has to go through an extra step at the Ombudsman first.
Jane Guvenir says
Sent to FOS in March, Moneybarn had already turned it down. FOS have sent a couple of emails saying still awaiting allocation. I don’t have a problem with the length of time just warning others how long it can take to be allocated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it is longer for cases over 6 years
Stuart says
Hi Sara,
Hopefully you can help ref the below rejected by the FOS
You’re complaining about a finance agreement you took out with Moneybarn No. 1 Limited (Moneybarn) on 7 January 2013.
Why we can’t help
Moneybarn have told us they don’t agree to us considering your complaint because they say it was referred to us too late.
From the information provided, I can see that the agreement was taken out on 7 January 2013. You made the complaint about being given the agreement on 19 January 2022 – more than six years after the agreement was taken out. I’m therefore satisfied the complaint was made too late for the six year part of the rule.
You’ve said you only became aware of a reason to complain after reading an article on Debt Camel.
We can look at a late complaint if exceptional circumstances were responsible for this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back and argue that you have only become aware in the last three years that the lender had a responsibility to check affordability – say that before that you thought it was your own fault for borrowing to much so you did not have any reason to believe that Moneybarn was party to blame. Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator won’t change their mind.
Stuart says
Hi Sara,
Thank you for your advice, I asked the adjudicator to reconsider based on the above.
They still did not agree and this complaint is now going to an Ombudsman.
Will let you know the final outcome good or bad.
Stuart says
Hi Sara,
Unfortunately the Ombudsman agreed with the adjudicator and Moneybarn and rejected the complaint due to it being 6 years after the event. They advised the complaint was brought too late.
Thank you for your help on this Sara, unfortunately on this occasion I’m not sure how I can take it any further now.
Stephen McNamee says
Hi Sara,
Back in March 2022 I complained to Oplo about unaffordable financing, they replied but my complaint didn’t get upheld. The same day I sent the complaint to the FOS, they have now completed my complaint and have said that the Car finance was unaffordable and have sent a letter to Oplo stating, they must now pay me all my interest payments back including 8% interest per year. It was a 5 year financial agreement that finished last November.
My question is, have you ever heard of the finance company not paying out after the FOS final decision?
Cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes but it’s very very unusual. I wouldn’t worry about this.
David says
Hello DC.
I took out a new HP in March 2022 for 270 a month which I always manage well as I always make my car repayments priority. I’ve never missed a payment on this.
In Dec 2022 they emailed saying if I had any financial concerns due to the cost of living crisis that they would be able to look at helping out with a repayment holiday or reduced payments etc, for a short period. I wasn’t struggling as such but thought I would see what they could do as any money temporarily saved in the shoet term here would have helped with other priority bills which I’m currently in a small amount of arrears on, but under control as best I can and not being ignored.
I sent them my current bank statement and income and expenditure form and they replied with this:
“While we always aim to help our customers as much as possible there are concerns regarding the ongoing affordability based on the Income & Expenditure form provided. As responsible lenders we have a duty to ensure that there is a confirmed exit plan for any potential payment holiday or reduced payment and the information provided does not support this.”
Why would they have said this. Surely they checked affordability at time of application and my circumstances haven’t changed or got worse since then really. I’m beginning to think I should query this further and looking st this thread seek the removal of interest. Do you think that is an option?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is the lender? What is the interest rate? 4 or 5 years? I assume the car is essential?
David says
Hello yes I’m the only driver in my house. Startline is the lender. I actually applied using carfinance 247 and zuto but the dealer said they would get me better finance (likely because they got a commission perhaps) so I just went with that and it was startline.
It’s over March 2022 to Nov 2026. Payments fully up to date, none missed or late etc.
I currently owe 12.7k but I’m not sure what the rate is as I can’t see it on my account. It won’t be great as I have poor credit rating.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you make a complaint now that the finance was unaffordable from the start and you win it, you will almost certainly have to hand back the car as you have not yet repaid the amount you borrowed, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/
That is not what you want. Although it is theoretically possible for interest to be removed and for you to carry on paying, I haven’t seen a case where this has happened…
So if it is essential that you keep the car AND you can carry on paying, it is better that you should do this and delay making an affordability complaint until you are close to having repaid the amount you borrowed. Dig out your paperwork and work out now when that will be.
NB I am assuming here that you have not so far said you are making a complaint. And that the reply from Startline doesn’t say you have the right to go go to the ombudsman within 6 months.
——————————————–
You could make a complaint now that Startline are being unhelpful after offering to help with cost of living problems. But the problem here is that there is no simple right to get the interest removed in this situation. And it may well be hard to stop that complaint morphing into an affordability complaint from the start, which could result in you losing the car.
——————————————–
If you don’t think you can carry on making the payments for the next two or three years until you have repaid the amount borrower, then you are in a different situation. There may be nothing that will let you keep the car here, so if the car has to be handed back/repossessed then you may as well make an affordability complaint as winning that will get you some money back and your credit record cleaned.
David says
That makes sense thank you for the information. I’ll park this for a couple of years and see how things go during that time. Many thanks!
David says
Hello DC. Further to my previous comments I’ve now found myself in a position where this month’s payment will be late (potentially missed in full) for thr first time during the agreement.
I’m still inclined to suggest it was startline rejecting to assist me previously has had a knock on affect and now the reasons I requested short term help, at their proposal, has now become a reality.
I asked for a settlement figure and that’s just shy of 10k and the car is currently worth about 7.6k based on a few estimates.
I don’t want to hand back the car but beginning to think that may be my best option.
If I did do that for example does the fair usage calculation come into play do you know please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well if you cant pay, you cant pay. Are you making payments to any non priority debts at the moment? If you VT the the car you will still owe the the rest of the payments up to the 50% mark and if you don’t carry on paying your credit record will be harmed.
If the car is VTd, the fair usage calculations are typically used by FOS. As https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/ explains, the typical FOS decision in this particular case is (not other situations):
– you should pay a fair usage charge for each month you had the car;
– you get a cash refund of your deposit plus the monthly payments you paid plus any payments made after you no longer had the car, minus the fair usage charge;
– any balance still owing is cleared.
How will you manage without a car?
NB I am not suggesting you get behind on any priority bills.
David says
I do have some non priority debts yes.
We do need a car but just trying to think what’s going to be best at least in the short term. I’ll see what they can do in the meantime in terms of this month’s, late payment of course.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then if you need a car you have to consider making payment arrangements or nothing to the non priority debts. You can’t assume a FOS case will be decided fast, or indeed that you will win it.
David says
When you say non priority debts do you mean unsecured credit like credit cards etc please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes – credit cards, catalogues, overdraft, unsecured loans
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk to a debt adviser. VTing a car that you need is a big move and you need to look at your other options.
Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and explain your situation, also that you are considering an affordability complaint.
If you VT the car there is no reason to delay making an affordability complaint as you no longer have the car.
Ernest says
Good afternoon Sara … l just received final decision from Ombudsman they uphold both my car finance 2018 and 2020.
Thank so much Sara again… l will update you with total amount of interest refunded..when the business reply.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what a good start to the year for you
Ernest says
Very good start of the year..am so so happy now
Thanks so much again Sara
ER says
Hi, how long did it take you from starting the process to getting a decision?
Ernest says
Take me Over 1yrs
Neil Garner says
It took me 8 months to get a case handler because the department it needs is apparently a small department and i got assigned a case handler 2 weeks before xmas so it is just a waiting game
Mike says
Have you Harare anything back yet Neil ? Mine has been with a case handler now for 2 month but not heard anything ? They haven’t even asked me for any info or statements yet either said they have the info from Moneybarn now so can start investigating and hopefully come to an outcome
Tapera says
Hi DebtCamel , I took out car finance via the defunct Car Craft who arranged finance with Advantage Finance. At that point my credit score was poor with CCJs , but needed a car desperately for work. I ended up with a bill of more than £450 per month for 4 years , paid it all up but with great difficulty and sinking deeper into debt. I think there is a case for irresponsible lending but need a steer as the loan was paid off in 2018. Too late?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you still have bank statements from back when you took the finance out?
Kirsty says
Hi Sara, after complaining to the FOS in June 2022 re Moneybarn, I have today been allocated a case handler! Not sure how long this part of the process will take, but I’m just glad of some small progress.
Kirsty says
The investigator has upheld my claim and given Moneybarn until 27th January to either accept or request it be sent to the Ombudsman! I’m hoping they agree but I’ll let you know!
Sandra says
Good luck,
Moneybarn refused to look at my case. I was 11 days over the 6 year marker. They took 3 months to let me know this.
I had 6 defaults, numerous payday loans and major mortgage arrears due to ill health. They even tried to repossession of car which i managed to avoid and took it to small claims were i managed to get a time to pay by judge.
I was going to send it to FOS anyway worth a try.
Peter says
You cant go to court, have a determination by a Judge and then also go the FOS, it’s against the rules!
Pete
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think FOS should make the decision on this.
Sandra says
Thank you Sarah,
Judge was not looking at affordability, i was given a time to pay as I agreed with moneybarn I owed the money. Judge advised he would accept monthly payments if £50 per month instead of £450.
Steven W says
Hi has anyone dealt with Blue Motor Finance? I am paying £200pcm and have bank statements before and after showing I was living in my overdraft with a low credit score. All my payments are up to date but I owe them £7,700 and the car is valued at approx £5k, I am struggling with repayments and I do not have £2700 to settle this. I have written to them last week using the affordability complaint letter template, just wondering if anyone has had this with blue motor, provided via Zuto. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Lots of wins against them on the Ombudsman decisions site! Here is a recent one: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-3802699.pdf
Can I ask how much you borrowed, without the added interest? And how much you have paid to this so far?
Steven W says
Hi Sara I borrowed £8150 and have paid £1600 so far since last May 2022. The amount currently owed is £7,700
All my bank statements 3 months previously show me constantly in my overdraft, 3 other loans and multiple credit card repayments.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I borrowed £8150 and have paid £1600 so far since last May 2022. The amount currently owed is £7,700
that suggests a very low interest rate – are you sure those figures are correct?
If they are, then you need to know that if you win this complaint you may have to return the car, as https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/ this explains.
Steven W says
Hi Sara the £7700 is an early settlement figure. The actual amount owed / left to pay is over £10,000
I am more than happy to hand back the car. I would hand it back today if I could. I guess if I handed it back now they would want me to cough up the difference of vehicle valuation (5100) and settle figure (7700), currently about £2600.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then an affordabilty complaint with you winning and handing back the car and owing nothing is a good option for you.? Good.
Steven W says
Most Definitely Sara. I wrote to Blue Motor finance last week and used your affordability complaint letter template. They have acknowledged it. I have also written to Santander, 3x loan companies and 3x credit card companies using the same template based on affordability. Thanks so much for your help and support.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also look at making affordabilty complaints about the overdraft (https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/) and credit cards (https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/)
Catherine says
Any complaints with Motonovo??
I have 2 payments left till paid off but looking back it was certainly irresponsible to lend so thinking of putting a complaint in.
I don’t remember them doing many checks and was very shocked I managed to get finance as I needed a vehicle for my job but my credit file was an absolute mess.
Took finance in Jan 2019
At the time I had several loans-
Amigo guarantor loan owing 1350
Buddy loans guarantor loan owing £1800
118 loan owing £1125
Bamboo loan in a arrangement to pay from October 2018 owing £8350
Shawbrook bank loan in arrangement to pay from October 2018 owing
Livelend loan in arrangement to pay from October 2018
Hitachi capital loan in arrangement to pay from October 2018 owing £4800
Provident loan in arrears from December 2018 owing £680
George banco guarantor loan owing 2800
Halifax overdraft utilising £2450 of a £2500 limit
Santander overdraft utilising £4250 of a £4500 limit
How should I approach the complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send in a complaint using the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. If it is rejected, send the complaint to the Ombudsman.
Also look at complaints against Bamboo, 118, Sahwbrook, Livelend, Hitachi
Geroge Banco. Using that loans template.
And against Halifax and Santander using the template for overdrafts here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/
Catherine says
Thanks Sara I have already cleared and received refunds of interest from all the loans I mentioned and previously had both overdraft complaints upheld too.
So just the complaint to Motonovo to do as with all the above accounts,several of them guarantor loans and several at the time of applying for vehicle finance were in arrangements to pay.
Obviously my current credit report has had negative data removed but luckily I still have screen shots of the negative data that would of been seen had Motonovo done a proper credit check.Which I can’t see they did do as who would think it’s responsible to lend to a person with multiple accounts in arrangements.
Paul says
Santander CS have replied and not upheld stating “I was automatically accepted for the finance” & “ ultimately it is the responsibility of the lender to determine wether the outcome is affordable or not”.
Sara, do you think this is worth sending to the Ombudsman or not? I am still awaiting my SAR from the them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes it is worth sending to the Ombudsman. It is nonsense to say it’s up to the lender what they think is affordable.
Santander have been rejecting a lot of overdraft complaints they should not have too (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/santander-overdraft-complaints/)
Tim says
Hi Sara. Got a Moneybarn loan for £5400 for my car finance at a rate of about 49%. I was always in arrears . These arrears were about £2000 pounds at one stage. My dad paid this loan off for me so the car is now mine. I struggled all the way through the finance agreement. I am thinking of making a unafforadability claim against them. My question is do you think they would consider my complaint as i do not have a credit report from that point . But i do have bank statements 3 months before i took out my loan and 3 months after that . They shows i had a bad gambling problem with hundreds and thousands of gambling on these statments. Thankfully i have stopped gambling now. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did the car finance start?
Tim says
Thanks for that Sara. Would i be entitled to the 8% simple interest also?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes from the point the finance was settled.
Jessica says
Has anybody raised an irresponsible/unaffordable lending complaint with Moneybarn whilst under a consent order?
my agreement was to be terminated but Moneybarn gave me the option of a consent order that went through the county court and I have to pay an agreed figure each month or Moneybarn can repossess my car without any further hearing. (A judgement for delivery of goods by consent.) I have 20 months left of repayments and I have paid over the amount borrowed for the car and I guess I was trying to find out if it’s possible to complain being in a consent order and if anyone had any experience with that?
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok a Tomlin order.
Read the Order closely – if you are unsure talk to National debtline on 0808 808 4000 about this. But if it simply says Moneybarn can repossess your car without a further court hearing if you miss a payment, then I don’t see why you cannot complain provided you keep making the payments while this goes through.
If Moneybarn reject the complaint send it to the Ombudsman. If MB says the Ombudsman cannot consider the complaint because of the consent order, then this is a decision for the Ombudsman to make, not MB. Come back here if you have problems?
Kirsty says
Moneybarn have until this Friday to either agree with the adjudicator or ask for more time/submit further representations etc…….I hope they don’t wait until the last minute to ask for more time! But something tells me they might :( The adjudicator said in his letter if he doesn’t hear back from them by the 27th, he will arrange for an ombudsman to determine the complaint
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Moneybarn accepted this decision, see below for details.
Steven says
Had a response from Blue Motor Finance. They have upheld my complaint with 3 month bank statements and a credit report showing other loans and credit cards, thety accept finance should not have been offered to me. They will collect the car this week and refund me the interest paid. The only thing is that the girl on the phone quoted the FULL interest payable of £3.8k and not the interest that I have actually paid, which is just over £1000 so I expect this will be corrected their end. I did try and call back and explain this but could not get back through to the girl who quoted the figures. Either way a good result to get the car taken back, payments stopped and the interest refunded but the final figure will be confirmed in writing once they have the car back.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good result as you do not need the car. I am assuming they will not be putting any negative marks on your credit record…
If you are not happy with the refund you can take this to the Ombudsman then.
Steven says
A good Result indeed! They confirmed no negative marks, the finance agreement will be closed once they have the car returned. Quite happy with a refund of interest paid, I calculated to be £1,044. They have stopped payments with immediate effect.
Beth says
I sent my Moneybarn Complaint to the FOS on 22/08 and it is yet to be handed to a case handler. Just incase anyone else is still waiting! Has anyone got any good news stories about payouts from Moneybarn? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Kirsty has won her Moneybarn case at FOS, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/unaffordable-car-finance/comment-page-5/#comment-501081 for details. She had originally sent the complaint to FOS in June.
Ernest says
Good afternoon Sara .. pls l need your advice on my car finance complain..l wait for marsh finance to refund the interest to me… buy Ombudsman give them till 3rd February to do that ( 4 weeks) but my direct debit is going out today but l cancelled it… and l informed marsh finance that l cancelled my direct debit but they guy at marsh finance said l should have wait till 3rd before cancel it.. and the guy don’t care about credit file… l think is not happy because they have to refund me they interest… am worried is going to show on my credit report of missing payment. Do you think l have right to cancel my direct debit pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it makes no sense to pay them now.
If they mark your credit record, make a complaint and ask for it to be removed.
Gord says
Hi Sarah can you advise made a complaint to ombudsman about marsh finance the ombudsman has turned it down I was heavily in debt to provident morses and loans at home at the time my bank statements shown minimum payment to skyline and shows transfers made to my mum of hundreds of pounds as the reps called when I was out and she paid them for me I have no proof of these loans as they don’t show on my credit report and provident shut down I feel that it’s unfair as marsh when I complained to them said what do you expect were a sub prime lender I struggled to pay them and took over a year longer to finish payments
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago did you take out the finance?
Is this an adjudicator/investigator decision from from FOS or an Ombudsman decision?
Gord says
Started 2016 finished last year decision was from adjudicator
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has the Ombudsamn turned it down because it is over 6 years or because they have looked at the complaint and think it was affordable?
Have you supplied the Ombudsman with your bank statements?
Gord says
They said it was affordable because I can’t provide them with proof of the home collected loans I said to check there files as I made an affordability claim through them with provident and I owed them more than 10000
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Good response. Say you want this to go to the Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind
Did you provide FOS with a credit report for the Provi claim?
Kirsty says
Moneybarn have accepted the investigator’s findings and sent me a settlement offer!
Refund of interest and charges – £7,123.73
Interest 8% – £1,706.51
Less tax – £341.30
Total refund due – £8,488.94
All negative marks to be removed from my credit report
To say I’m delighted is an understatement – thanks so much for all your advice on here, Sara!
Beth Hughes says
That’s amazing Kirsty!! I’m hoping for the same positive outcome 🤞🏻
Mike says
Hi Kirsty
How long after Moneybarn accepted did they take to make the payment ?
I’m in the same bout as you was the case handler upheld my claim and has now gave Moneybarn until 6th July to reply or appeal so it’s just a waiting game now 😫
Catherine says
Any one complained to motonovo finance for irresponsible:unaffordable lending??
There’s not many decisions on the ombudsman website of complaints going for an Ombudsman review so hoping that either motonovo make good offers or tend to accept adjudicators decisions if it goes to FOS.
How long do adjudicators tend to take before issuing a response once they pick up a case?
Kirsty says
Hi Catherine
The adjudicator picked up my case on 10th Jan, had made a decision on the 13th (they asked me lots of questions via email, which I responded to straight away). They gave Moneybarn 2 weeks to respond – they agreed with the adjudicator’s decision and now have 28 to pay me back.
I hope this helps
Kirsty
Ernest says
Good morning Sara .. just to update you about my car finance ( marsh finance) for 2018 and 2022.. l got total refund of interest and 8% almost £4500 and they took £3100 to paid off the loan for the 2022 car and l will keep the car. And l will get refund to my bank account of £1400 .. Marsh Finance is very very hard to deal with 💯. Thanks again Sara
louise brind says
Hi Sara,
I’m sorting out my brother’s complaints as he had multiple car loans 2 paid up and the car was repossessed for at least 3. One for £12k was statue barred in 2019. Moneybarn has just been paid off (£8k and car was repossessed. His final one was paid up for a Mondeo). The last one and the Moneybarn would’ve shown that he had cars repossessed in the past and that the loans would’ve still been owed and live even the statue barred one. He had multiple CCJ’s entered 5-8months after the MB loan was taken out. His last car loan was in arrears in 2019 and he had to borrow money to pay them off to keep the car. Any guidance with approaching these would be great.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
thats a bit confusing.
can you list the loans in date started order – lender – amount (roughly) – paid up or repossessed
louise brind says
Thank you for your reply. So I now have the paperwork.
This is the information I could find with dates, lender and how it stands
The funding Corp – 2012 – car was repossessed. Arrears was £12,299 in 2014 and in 2019 the debt became statute barred. Would’ve been present in 2016 on the credit file as an open defaulted account.
Moneybarn – Credit taken out in March 2016 for just over £19k – Car was repossessed in July 2018 – Moneybarn sold the car by Auction for £4k and took that amount off the amount owed. Arrears amount in Aug 2018 was £10,590. After the car was resold the debt outstanding was £7300 March 2019.
Advantage Limited – Credit taken out in July 2018 £10,349 – Arrears of over £800 were paid by a family member so that my brother could keep the car. He paid it up in 2022 with a figure of £2893.
From what I can make out at the time of the MB car loan the Funding Corp loan was live and would’ve shown that he was in £12k arrears and defaulted. He was earning around £500 per week but had virtually no disposible income. The account was paid up via a DMP by stepchange. The 2 loans alone totalled £31,290. He had provident loans and payday loans too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is 3 loans. You seemed to mention more in your first comment. But will assume there are only these three.
So taking the loans in order.
He could make a claim about the first loan. If he won it, the balance (that is now statute barred ) would be cleared and he would probably get a cash refund if the monthly payments were greater that a “fair value” amount. But the problem with this is that it is a very long while ago. Unless he has all his paperwork and bank statements from that time, he may not get anywhere. As he thinks the balance is statute barred, it isnt on his credit record and he isnt being hassled to pay, he could just decide to let this sleeping dog lie?
Moneybarn – see section “B) You handed back the car or the lender repossessed it” in https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/ for what he would get if he wins this complaint. The balance would be cleared and he shoule get some refund back. expect Moneybarn to reject this as he took the loan over 6 years ago – send the complaint straight to the Ombudsman when they do.
Advantage Limited – see section “A) Car finance repaid” for what he would get back if he wins that complaint.
Evedence that may help – his StepChange DMP. Bank statements. Credit record. he should get as much as he can as soon as he complains – don’t wait to be asked for it, have it there.
louise brind says
The first loan that’s Statute Barred I’m leaving it as they have accepted that it’s not enforceable so it’s not worth starting anything. That does help the claim for Moneybarn though. As the arrears and repossession showed on my credit file. I’ve got a statement from MB which I can see he defaulted on payments from April and entered into a payment plan to clear arrears in June 2016! He also had 3 CCJ entered in courts from 2017.
I’m not able to get his bank statements but I have every statement and application from money barn and advantage finance and his DMP details and debt letters and CCJ documents so I’m hoping that it won’t be needed. He went through a separation in 2016,
I used the way back when machine and the Moneybarn application page from March 2016 and it’s asked for income and occupation and the personal details nothing asking about debt or expenditure at all and I was able to take screen shots of it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You must be able to get bank statements for the more recent loan. You can go back 6 years even with a closed account.
Very nice idea about the Way Back When machine!
Jade says
If I complain to moneybarn about an unarrfordable car loan (I was in negative with my bank at the time) and provide bank statements can they take the car? I still make payments and can’t be without one! Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how much did you borrow from Moneybarn? Not including the added on interest.
how much have you paid to them soi far?
Jade Lynch says
Hi Sara. The car was 4900 I paid a 400 deposit and the total credit was 11,900 I have paid 7000 so far
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so on those figures you have apid them so far more than the value of the car.
This https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/ has a section “C) Car finance still running & you have paid MORE than the amount borrowed” which covers your case. It says what FOS normally decides. In your case you would be allowed to keep the care, the balance would be cleared and you would get some refund.
So you can safely complain now if you think the loan was unaffordable. You will need to carry on paying while the complaint goes through and a lot of them have to go to the Ombudsman.
John Duddigan says
Morning Sarah
Startline Motor Finance are threatening to Terminate my Agreement and Repossess Car.
FOS have had my complaint since September 2022
I spoke to FOS last week and they are going to try to escalate my complaint as a matter of priority. Not yet taken up by a Case Handler.
I do need car for work.
I will offer a reduced amount whilst Complaint is being dealt with by FOS
If I did Voluntary return the car what would that involve?
Would I get any redress back?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
this article covers the normal FOS decisions in different cases https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/ – if you VT the car it will be under “B) You handed back the car or the lender repossessed it”
Your case is complicated by the fact you are disputing the amount that should have been lent to you because of the added extras.
If you VT the car, how will you manage? Getting another car on bad credit finance is not a good idea!
Are you paying any non priority debts at the moment – credit cards, loans etc?
You should definitely be trying to make some payments to Startline at the moment.
JOHN DUDDIGAN says
Hi Sarah
I think in my Case VT the car is the best option. I live within cycling distance for work.
Is it 50% of amount Finance before the Interest is added that need to be Repaid
My Figures are as follows
Amount of Credit : £10015.59
Interest : £5012.11
Total : £15027.60
Amont Paid so Far : £8545.17
Balance : £6482.43
Yes my case is a complicated one as there is a third party involved ie Trustford
I am a bit behind with one Priorty Bill and that is my Rent. Am one Month i arrears
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case VTing the car may well be your most sensible option. You won’t just save the car finance payments by not having a car but also insurance, MOT, maintenance, road tax etc.
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/vt-end-car-finance-early/. As that says, the 50% figure will be shown in your car finance paperwork. It is 50% of the total fiance cost including interest. Discuss this with National Debtline for more details.
John Duddigan says
Hi Sarah
I find out that Startline Motor Finance have Terminated my Agrrement and tell me VT Is now not an option.
Their Options are VS or sell car to We Buy Any Car and they will pay Startline a Settlement Figure
Can Startline do this?
Shall I infirm FOS. I am the Priority List for a Case Handler
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you defaulted on the car finance?
John Duddigan says
Had 3 missed Payments.
Startline tell me if I make a Token in February then the Default Notice will be stopped
Not sure on what action to take
Do I inform FOS of this?
Arrears is £665.39
Sara (Debt Camel) says
why did you stop paying?
Last year when you said “! will carry on making the Monthly Payments till i reach Cash Price.”
I replied “To be clear, you have to carry on making the payments until your complaint is resolved.”
I suggest you discuss your situation with National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Louise Brind says
Hi Sara, Thanks again for responding.
MoneyBarn were paid off in total via DMP Stepchange last month. (The account is showing as closed and balance at 0) They actually assigned the debt on to Arrow Global in Dec 2019 but repurchased it back to themselves in Feb 2021. They refunded £2478 in interest for that period in sept 2022.
The car was repossessed in Dec 2018 and resold in Jan 2019 for £4100. I am requesting a refund of interest, Late Charges and the
other charges relating to the repossession. The capital value was £7698 (£9,894 in interest) when the loan was taken out. He paid £2038 off of the car purchase price by the time the car was taken and then resold. He was using the car for 2years and 4months as he’d taken out another car loan in July 2018. Would i be right in that the £4100 proceeds are to be put towards the total capital plus a few more payments to bring the total up to £7698. Or is it £4100 plus the capital? Reason I ask is because as the loan was paid in full. I want to establish the interest charges minus the capital and £4100 is a huge amount.
I have his bank statements from Feb 2018 but can’t get any from before that. They cover the most recent loan in full.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“They refunded £2478 in interest for that period in sept 2022.”
why did they do this?
Louise Brind says
The letter he received says “We are regulated by CCA1974 and we are obligated to send a notice of sums in arrears letter every six months that you remain in arrears. Regrettably, due to a system error we did not send this letter to you at the intervals prescribed with the CCA 1974” They say they were not entitled to charge interest during that time. It doesn’t state what period of time though. There was just a booklet explaining what it means. I can’t find any dates or a time period. I have taken this amount already from the interest paid total.
I’ve been entering all the data into an excel worksheet but its just the £4100 resale proceeds that confuse me, I’m not sure whether it is ducted from the capital part of the loan or if its the capital plus the £4100. If that makes sense.
Capital part is – £7698 The loan was taken out in March 2016 and the car was taken reposssessed in Aug 2018
Capital payments – £1638 Up to when car was repossessed. If the £4100 does come off the capital amount then the arrears work out to be £1960. If I need to add the full capital plus the £4100 then the arrears were £6060.
Car resold for £4100.
Thank you for your help.
Louise Brind says
Sorry Just to add. Moneybarn has all been paid up now. The last payment through stepchange was Dec 2022.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is called a NOSIA refund – it has nothing at all to do with affordability so they can’t claim they have already settled an affordability complaint with this refund.
This NOSIA refund reduced the balance that was paid off in the StepChange DMP? It wasnt paid in cash to you?
Louise Brind says
yes the refund went towards reducing the debt. Trying the work out the claim is so confusing and I am struggling to find any information on the resale value and if it should be deducted from the capital part of the loan.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This article shows how refunds are calculated in different scenarios: https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/
Here the car was repossessed after about 18 months (correct?)
So the relevant scenerio is B) You handed back the car or the lender repossessed it
and FOS usually calculates the refunds as follows:
– you should pay a fair usage charge for each month you had the car – so that is 28 x some amount that was less than what MB were charging
– you get a cash refund of your deposit PLUS the monthly payments you paid PLUS any payments made after you no longer had the car, MINUS the fair usage charge;
– any balance still owing is cleared – that is zero.
So you dont have to bother with what the car cost at the start or what it was sold for.
louise brind says
Hi Sara,
Got a reply from Moneybarn and they said it’s over the 6years and that he could’ve known to complaint in 2019. I’ve said that had he known he could complain why would he have not as he was struggling with a DMP and other debts. Not only that but when the refund in sept 2022 for the NOSIA was the first time anything came up that the company was at fault. Obviously going to the FOS but was wondering what are the better arguments to disprove that. The contract was taken out in March 2016. The loan is still outstanding as I found out today. I thought it had been fully paid but there’s around £900 left. The sold the debt to arrow then repurchased it in 2021, then we have the NOSIA refund sept 2022. Does any of these change the time frame?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No.
But send this straight to the Finacial Ombudsman who can decide to look at these older cases if you have only found out in the last three years that you can complaint.
louise brind says
I have texts from Sept 2022 that show my Brother asking if he could complain and to look into it for him. This time it’s come in handy keeping all my texts and phone calls logs. The only issue I have is bank statements. I only have them for Nov 2016 which is a pain
louise brind says
I’ve replied back to them asking to reconsider their position. Reading the FOS page about the 6years and it says “exceptional circumstances” My brother was ill with Covid in March 2021 and we lost my dad that same time through Covid. Would those be classed as exceptional? Thanks for any help. I’ve sent them our father’s death certificate and I’m waiting to see if my brother has any evidence for when he had Covid.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would just send this to FOS. They may decide they can look at it anyway if you have only found out you can complain in the last three years. Even if there are no exceptional circumstances.
John Duddigan says
I didn’t stop paying
I just didn’t have the funds for those 3 months due to High Cost of Living
Something had to give. I can make Reduced Payments but not sure If Startline will accept that till FOS complete their Investigation
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you making any payments to non priority debts? credit cards, unsecured loans, overdraft? That is what you need to reduce so you can pay the full amount to the car finance. talk to National Debtline, they will explain this.
John Duddigan says
Ok will give them a call
Yes I am paying 2 Credit Cards
Barclaycard and Capital One
No unsecured loans or overdrafts
Ernest says
Good morning Sara do you know how l can get my refund quickly from Marsh finance because the ombudsman gave them is end . And they are tell me to wait another 14days but l can’t wait anymore longer l need my money. I send them emails that l will comment on there website but did not reply my email or take any action . I was thinking to go on there review and write something… do you know how to get there managing director emails pls? Or what is the best thing to do pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can leave a bad review on Trust Pilot but their score there isnt good so they may not care about a poor review.
Try andrew@marshfinance.co.uk (I have no idea who he is)
Catherine says
Hi Sara,
So motonovo have picked up my complaint and the case handler emailed to introduce himself.
He asked for –
If you can provide the relevant bank statements and payslips for the month’s of November and December 2018 & January 2019, In order to assist in my investigation. Please provide these by latest 14th February 2023, should I not receive these by then I will complete my Investigation with the evidence currently available.
But I’ve actually replied to say that if they did the appropriate checks then they should already have this information and that if it went to the FOS and they asked for them I’d supply them then.
Not sure whether I should have said that or whether to just send to him.
My point is though that surely they should of gathered that info and have a record of it to show they lent responsibly and checked all that at the time finance was granted?
I’m expecting my DSAR from them next week to see what they actually have on my file of checks they did.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send the bank’s statements now. Providing your pay shows on the bank statements, there is no need to supply payslips.
What they should have done before is less important than trying to get the best decision now as early as possible.
You will not win a case just because the lender failed to make checks. What also matters is what those checks would have shown – the bank statements will show that.
Catherine says
I dont have payslips as I’m self employed so just receive direct payments from clients to bank account.
I’ve sent them now,I was just having a moment of why should I supply you with the information you should have checked at the time,kinda of thing.
Greg says
They’ll kick it back regardless. I sent bank statements showing 2.5k overdrawn and they’ll somehow try to justify their decision.
Don’t expect anything from them and build your evidence for the fos.
Catherine says
Yes but I was utilising £7000 of overdraft available on 2 bank accounts,had 9 loans 3 of which were guarantor loans,5 of which were in arrangements to pay prior to and at the time of been given finance.
D says
I disagree. Out of the 11 complaints my partner sent to financial organisations, MotoNovo were the only ones who settled fully without the need to refer to the FOS. He supplied his statements to MotoNovo when asked
Catherine – good that you have sent your statements now and hopefully the right decision will be made, saving a lot of time
Greg – perhaps your statements were insufficient to show you were in financial difficulty? but if not, hopefully the FOS will uphold
Catherine says
My motonovo finance complaint has been upheld directly.
Submitted the 18th of Jan 2023,upheld today,just awaiting calculation.
Very happy.
Catherine says
Hi D,
Thanks for that.
The case handler at motonovo has replied to say he will conduct an affordability assessment from my statements and will be able to provide me with an outcome in due course.
So let’s see what happens,I know motonovo had an overhaul of its complaints process to reduce the amount of cases sent to the FOS so hoping with all the evidence I’ve sent that they agree I was already struggling to manage the debts I had.
D says
Your welcome.
The only thing I will add though is this. My partners complaint was dealt with fairly speedily and he had all interest paid refund plus the standard 8% on overpayments – no quibbles.
However, they did refuse to refund a £199 administration charge and a payment for Gap insurance taken out with them at the time of the finance. They appeared to be saying that they were only required to refund the interest as above, not other charges
They were very polite about it, but as we don’t believe this is correct he is considering whether to refer this to the FOS. Given it is a very small portion of the value of complaints he has, and has had, with the FOS, he may not bother.
If you have paid an admin fee/other charges, and have the same response, you can decide whether or not it is important for you to pursue
Good luck
Catherine says
My motonovo finance complaint has been upheld directly.
Submitted the 18th of Jan 2023,upheld today,just awaiting calculation.
Very happy.
D says
Really pleased for you. I do believe MotoNovo take complaints against them seriously from the outset. I just wish others would put the same effort into early resolutions.
Catherine says
Did it take long to receive redress??
They have removed the £266 I had left to pay already from my online account but haven’t received the interest calculation yet.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when did they reject your affordability complaint?
Laura says
Hi, I am trying to start a claim with black horse, which email address did you use I am struggling to find one anywhere? I don’t want to put the Conplaints in the post if I can help it. It is great to hear of your success thanks for sharing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
try onlinecomplaints@lloydsbank.co.uk
Sandra says
I am currently on the tip of the iceberg on the very long journey of me vs money barn. I started my complaint in February 2022 and the gentleman dealing with my case has had me send break downs and further evidence other than bank statements. His last email to me a few days ago was asking if I have any conditions with reading before sending me over his final decision, which I have never experienced and makes me even more nervous. I responded back to him immediately and his response was that he will be in touch soon, I’m still waiting.
Anyways, having very positive hopes my question for you Sara is what would my potential refund look like if all goes well here are the details:
Car loan taken out for £13038.00 with money barn i put down a deposit of £1400 total owed to them was £22950.00 and credit is £11638.
I have had the car since May 2020 I have had 1 payment holiday and currently in £650 arrears. My monthly payments are £365. I still have the car and her current market value is around £9500 – £10000.
i have £11,250.00 left to pay. I also have the car in my possession so what would you reckon would happen with the car?
My ask was to keep it have all interest refunded and have money barn cleaned off my credit report but I know that could be a far cry.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Car loan taken out for £13038.00 with money barn i put down a deposit of £1400 total owed to them was £22950.00 and credit is £11638.
I would expect the total owed at the start would be the sum of the loan taken and the cost of credit – it doesn’t seem to be?
How much have you paid to MB so far?
You made a complaint a year ago? What has been happening since then? Why have they not given you a decision?
Sandra says
in response to what I have paid around £10,000-11,000 I have paid them. My maths is terrible todo the calculations but 11,250.00 is what’s left to pay £22950.00 is where I started.
Yes it was start of February 2022 last year I went Moneybarn and started the whole complaint process. By end of February the complaint was then with the Ombudsman. I didn’t even get assigned to someone dealing with my case until October 2022. So yes its been a very long process. It seems they have come to their decision as well prolonging the response with questions like do I have “practical needs our organisation should be aware of (for example, requiring a larger font in our correspondence, etc).”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok you didn’t say your case was with the Ombudsman, I was worried Moneybarn had been stringing you along for ages.
I am sorry but you have to go go through and add up the total of the payments you have made to MB, not guess.
How much are your monthly payments? Are you paying them at the moment? Is this car essential for you?
Sandra says
I have paid them £9903, in total so far, I still am paying them. I am £682 in arrears. My monthly payments are £365. Yes as I use it for work.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok do you have other debts that you are paying? (this isn’t as irrelevant as it sounds)
Sandra says
Yeah I have around 2 payday loans im paying and just working through clearing credit cards, between them I have about 3.5-4k to pay off in total.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So what would you get if you win the complaint.
This article looks at how FOS usually awards redress in car finance cases: https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/
You have paid 9,903 which is less than the 13,038 that you borrowed, so at the moment you come into the 4th group “D) Car finance still running & you have paid LESS than the amount borrowed“.
In that case the typical redress is that the car has to be handed back and you get a refund of your deposit plus some money for each month you have had the car. That is not what you want.
You would prefer to be in the 3rd group “C) Car finance still running & you have paid MORE than the amount borrowed”. That means you have to have made about 8 or 9 more monthly payments.
So ideally you want the FOS case to go slow so by the time it ends you are at or very close to that point. Which means you have to be able to pay these arrears and keep making the monthly payment.
Paying the arrears is urgent – if you lose the FOS case you do not want your car repossessed.
One option is to only make token £1 a month payments to your other debts to allow you to be able to pay the car finance arrears and then pay the new payments. I think you should sdiscuss this with National Debtline now, phone 0808 808 4000. They can explain all the pos and cons. Don’t wait for a few months, you need the extra flexibility to be able to do this now if keeping the car is essential.
PS you can also look at affordability complaints against the payday lenders, credit cards, overdrafts etc. See the article here https://debtcamel.co.uk/tag/refunds/.
Sandra says
Thanks for your response. I’m sure my calculations were correct but I have made way more than 9 monthly payments. I have been paying them since July 2020.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I was saying that you will not have repaid the 13k you borrowed until you have made another 9 extra payments.
Jamie says
I am currently awaiting an FOS decision on my complaint against Moneybarn. I was assigned a handler on 02/12/22 and after providing her with further details I was emailed on 02/02/23 saying she can now begin her investigations – i am hoping this doesn’t take too long. My initial complaint to Moneybarn was in March 22.
For context, Moneybarn provide me with £4495 in credit and charged £4460.96 in interest which i fully paid off along with a £400 deposit. I raised an affordability complaint against them after reading about others situations on this site. I was in a Protected Trust deed when i applied (my trust deed partner allowed me to apply as it was essential for work / family etc) and on the bank statements i provided Moneybarn at time of application were numerous gambling deposits, late payment fees, bank charges for missed payments and large Payday loan repayments. I feel that in hindsight i should not have been offered the loan. It turns out i was in arrears to Moneybarn after just two months and remained so for the vast majority of the term, at one point up to 6 months in arrears.
I’m hoping i have a fairly solid case and the FOS agree. I will update on here when i do hear back.
Sandra says
My case wasn’t upheld by the Financial Ombudsman I am fuming
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was this a decision by an adjudicator? Or a second-level “Ombudsman” decision?
Sandra says
The adjudicator please advise me if there is a way out of this there’s no way moneybarn have just conned me like this
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can ask for the case to be looked at by an Ombudsman. You need to read the adjudicator’s decision carefully – if there is anything you disagree with, you need to reply saying this. And if they have asked for any information have you supplied it?
Emma says
Hi Sara,
I have made an affordability complaint and I am waiting to be handed a case handler. We’ve only had the car a year and a half and still have 3 and a half years to go. If I sell the car and pay off the finance will this affect my affordability complaint? I’m selling it due to not being able to afford the car any longer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It won’t affect your complaint – the affordability check is one at the time you took out the finance, the fact you have managed to repay it by selling the car is not relevant.
But it will affect what you may receive as redress. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/ where you would move from being in D) Car finance still running & you have paid LESS than the amount borrowed to being in A) Car finance repaid. NB it is hard to guess what money you would get in case D, so if you do nto have to have the car, selling it may be a very sensible option to you. You would also save on car insurance, car tax, servicing etc…
Emma says
Great thank you for that, it will save me a lot of money by selling it on! 😊
Alix says
I have just taken a look at this, and definiltey think this applies.
I took out car finance in 2018, for my car which I still own, and will be fully paid up on the borrowing next April.
The car list price was 13k, however on the finance page it states that the amount borrowed was 21086 – I am assuming that this includes interest? I havent missed a payment, but the payments arent really affordable just make sure I pay them so that I can keep the car.
I have just over 5k left to pay, which seems ridiculous as the car list price was 13k and I have already paid 15k. Is it worth me complaining now? I am a bit confused by amount borrowed, as thats alot more than what the car was listed for.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were the payments hard to make right from the start?
Alix says
Yes. They were always out of my budget really, but I made them fit as having a reliable car is crucial for my work and family life. My other debts have spiralled alongside these, to maintain paying it so that I don’t lose the car – if that makes sense.
James says
Motonovo disagreed with my affordability complaint so I went to FOS. I had a response from the case handler yesterday with a preliminary decision in my favour. They have give Motonovo 2 weeks to come back to them either accepting the decision or contest but provide further information to back up there reason. I guess my questions are:
1) Going off everyone else’s experience who has been in this situation, how many companies just accept the adjudicators preliminary decision?
2) If they do accept, I assume they have 28 days to pay the money. Do I then contact Motonovo and provide them with my bank details as they have changed since I last made payments with them.
3) Has anyone who has been through FOS had any issues recieving payment? (especially with Motonovo)
James says
So Motonovo didn’t respond to the adjudicators decision (which was in my favour) so it’s now going to an Ombudsman. Do we know how long this takes?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry but this is really hard to say. Somewhere between 2 and 4 months is typical but faster and slower ar possible
Greg says
Congratulations. May I ask when you submitted to the Fos. I’m in a similar position.
People have said that MF treat the claims fairly and I think your case shows that’s not entirely true.
I’m sure it’s been written that 90% of the time the adjudicators decision will be upheld even if they challenge it further.
Well done for getting what you deserve from this slimey organisation. 👍
James says
I’m not sure congratulations are in order yet as I believe they can reply and try to change the decision within 2 weeks. I applied early Nov 2022 and it got picked up early Feb 2023.
Catherine says
Hi Sara how do I work out what the 8% simple interest on a refund?finance taken Jan 2019,payments started March 2019
Total amount payable was £6401
I made 43 payments of £133.36 and one payment of £401 to repay covid payment deferral amounts.
£6120 total paid
Which meant I’d overpaid the cost of the vehicle £4450 by £1670 ish
I had 2 payments left on the account (£266)which they have removed now but I don’t know how to calculate the 8%
And it would be good to have an idea.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you should get a refund of the £1670ish. That was about 12 months payments. So if the interest had never been added, you would have repaid the loan 12 months ago and from thet point you have moved “into credit” once the interest is removed.
This is equivalent to getting 6 months interest at 8% which is about £70
Catherine says
Hi just to let you know Sara Motonovo have applied 8% interest for the whole 4 year agreement.
I had overpaid by £1685 I had two months left £266 which they wrote off.
They have back dated the overpayments as though I should have had an additional £1685 from the start of the agreement had they not added the interest and so have refunded 8% on that basis.so I’m getting £444 in statutory interest after hmrc tax deduction.
They have also paid me £150 compensation for the distress and inconvenience.
Sorry if that makes no sense,I’m going to do a timeline for others dealing with motonovo later.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s good!
James says
Did they include any late payment fees etc? My case isn’t over yet. The adjudicator has provisionally ruled in my favour but Moto have 2 weeks to either agree or disagree and provide more information. I emailed the adjudicator and asked them about the late payment fees etc and they said moto should pay back anything over the value of the car plus the 8%
Catherine says
Hi James
I didn’t have any late payments fees as the ones I did get over the loan term I always challenged and got them refunded at the time,so can’t comment further on that.
Your adjudicator would normally say to refund interest and charges which I assume would mean any late payment charges too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can probably reclaim the 20% tax deducted on the simple interest part, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/ppi-payday-refund-get-back-tax/
Sarah says
Hi Sara
Just need some advice on my car finance. I raised complaint an irresponsible lending complaint with black horse which they have upheld.
Car purchase price £17999
Finance taken out – £16000 – 9.9%
Outstanding- £3300
Blackhorse have come back saying they will write off my balance. I’m not sure whether to continue paying my balance and take in to ombudsman or accept the offer.
I have also raised a complaint with them for miss selling and undisclosed commissions which I am still awaiting a response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much have you paid so far?
The complaint about misselling – is this because of the undisclosed commission? Are you doing this through a firm of solicitors or would you like some help with it?
Sara says
Hi Sara
I have paid 16,851 so far and have 3300 remaining. I had the agreement over 6 months the agreement has come to an end. They won’t get 8% statoutory refund as their a balance. The balance will be cleared before an ombudsman has a look in to it- what do you think refer to ombudsman or accept offer to write off balance
I have raised complained miss selling and undisclosed commissions which I wasn’t aware of. And also raised complaints regarding my interest as I think I could have got a better rate. I have already raised complaint with Blackhorse not doing it through solicitors
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you won this case at the Ombudsman now, the usuall award would be that the car is transferred into your name, the balance it written off and you are refunded the amount you have paif over the amount you borrowed – which sounds like £851. Plus 8% on the £851 which wopuld be tiny as you would only have been in credit for a few months.
So it’s up to you if you think its worth going to the ombudsman for that amount.
If you win the affordability case, my guess is that your complaints about mis-selling and undisclosed commission fall away as after the refund you will not have paid any interest.
Sarah says
The response I have received today re irresponsible lending
In view of my findings, I will make payment of £3309.97. A summary of the valuation is shown below
– £1599 cash deposit paid at the time of interception
– £829.81 equating to the proportion of your interest paid on monthly payments
– you will also be entitled to 8% statutory interest on the above £2428.81
Should I accept or refer to Fca ??
Also my complaint is still ongoing for the undisclosed commissions and also raised that I could have got a better interest rate than 9.9%.
I don’t fully understand what you mean re your last comment – is it pointless now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“In view of my findings, I will make payment of £3309.97”
Can I be clear – are they saying they will use this money to clear your balance?
Or that they are clearing your balance AND will pay you this amount in cash?
And I assume the car will be transferred into your name.
Sarah says
They are clearing the balance and paying that amount and yes car will be mine
Shall I leave the miss selling complaint
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I think that is more than you would get from the Ombudsman! I have outlined here what the Ombudsman usually says: https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/ and you would come in case (C).
If you think that is right then I suggest you accept their offer.
With this offer you have no paid any interest. The undiscosed commission complaint would result in you getting a proportion of the interest back – but after you have accepted the settlement there is no interest to get some of back.
I don’t know what the mis-selling complaint is but if it relates to the interest rate, then again after this setlement there is nothing left to be refunded.
Sarah says
I do think They have given me more than the ombudsman would.
If I accept this affordability complaint will it impact my other complaint
Or shall I wait till I get the outcome for both
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Say you were getting a refund of £5000 for affordability for the interest you paid.
If you win an undisclosed commission complaint and you had not made an affordability complaint you might get back £2500 (half the interest you paid – I am literally making this 50% number up)
If you make the affordability complaint first, get 5k and then win the commission complaint you will get NOTHING as there is no more interest to be refunded, you have already had it all.
If you make the commission complaint first and get 2500, then win an affordability complaint, your affordability refund will be reduced to 2500 (5000-2500) as you have already had half the interest back.
You are NOT going to get the same interest refunded twice. Your affordability complaint will always be more than a commission claim.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If anyone is reading this and is wondering what an “undisclosed commission” complaint it, there are some cases going through FOS at the moment about this.
The decisions should (I hope) be out in the next 2-6 months – after that I will write a post explaining who can claim, what they might get and how to do it.
But this undisclosed commission will mainly be of interest to people who do NOT have an affordability complaint. Because you will get more from an affordability complaint if you win.
So don’t delay making an affordability complaint waiting to find out about this new sort of claim.
And don’t sign up with a claims company or a firm of solicitors at the moment – these undisclosed commission claims may be very simple to win, no need to hand over a lot of any refund to anyone else..
Sara says
Can I ask for the commission that was given to the dealer
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No. You never paid that, it wont be refunded.
But because of the commission, you have paid a higher interest rate than you should have – so you get part of that interest back. If you have had all the interest refunded, there is nothing more to claim. You have just paid the price for the car, no added cost.
NB until we see the FOS decisions on undisclosed commission I am making some assumptions here. But the FOS decisions may not be out for many months. I would be surprised if it is less than 2. It could be more than 6.
You only have 6 months to accept this offer or go to the Ombudsman. And it looks like a very good offer.
Sara says
I am going to accept the offer but the calculations don’t seem right either they have overpaid or not worked out properly
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I agree they look odd. But what the Ombudsman offers is not written down anywhere – I only worked it out after looking at 40-50 decisions.
Sara says
Thank you I will await the outcome letter
Also, I asked the finance company to give me compensation for stress & inconvenience but they refused
– I started my masters which I had to leave due to stress of this agreement and the financial debt
– I had also taken out various loan with payday lenders to sustain this loan – even though they will remove markers my credit file has been impacted for years and haven’t been to get a mortgage
I will accept the offer and escalate as they will give me compensation for the 2nd part