Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t and the lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
Thomas says
Hi Sara
I complained to the ombudsman about newday ltd.
Today they have upheld my complaint for the increases after £900 which was firstly £1900 and then £3200.
How do I work this out?
Rework the account removing all interest, fees, charges and insurances (not already refunded) that have been applied to balances above £900 after June 2022.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you know what your average balance was over the period being refunded?
thomas says
Hi,
It has been maxed out at around £3150 since December 2022
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then since Dec 2022 you should be refunded (3150-900)/3150 = abbout 70% of the interest you have paid, which you should be able to see on statements.
You can do similar calculations for previous months. I am sorry but there is no simple way to estimate this.
Our Debt Free Journey says
I used the credit card complaint template in April 2023 to complain to Vanquis credit cards about irresponsible lending. They initially said they hadn’t done anything wrong, so after Sara’s advice, I escalated it to the Financial Ombudsman in June 2023.
In August 2023, the ombudsman contacted me to say that they had upheld my complaint and had instructed Vanquis to to buy back my debt (it had been sent to a debt collection agency by this point) and to then use any recompense due to me, to partially pay off my current balance with them.
Today, I have received an update from Vanquis that I had £2,559.54 total refund due, there was an outstanding balance of £3,334.72. PLUS! As a good will gesture, Vanquis have also agreed to write off the remaining balance that’s outstanding of £775.18, bringing the account balance to £0. They said that this takes immediate effect.
They have also requested that they update my credit file to remove all negative markers caused by the lending. This will take between 6-8 weeks to be updated with the credit reference agencies.
Overall an outstanding result! And I’m one very happy and grateful (to Sara) lady!!
Spud toe says
Hi, I’m just about to complain to vanquis for irresponsible lending. What were you reasons ? I was in a DRO order at the time.
HW says
I complained about irresponsible lending against Barclaycard in Feb 2023. They claimed that the complaint was out of time but the Ombudsman disagreed and the adjudicator is investigating.
He says “Your credit card was opened in September 1991. The card had multiple increases from the opening limit of 2K in 1991, to the final increase in 2015 to 19K. Barclaycard only hold data for the final two limit increases in 2015. If you want the pre-2015 increases to be assessed, I’d be relying on any information you can provide, in the form of current account statements. I appreciate you may no longer hold these.
I can consider the lending decisions in 2015, however bank statements for this period would be useful. Please could you confirm which lending decisions you’d like me to consider and whether you have any evidence you can provide?”
I have a few random bank statements going back to 2012 and could probably find some tax returns that prove that I wasn’t even earning 19K when they raised my limit by 4K in 2015. I was paying the minimum amount and maxing my Barclays overdraft. Given that I was given the initial 2K limit as a full-time student and Barclaycard raised my limit 13 times with no requests from me I feel this needs investigating. My earnings fell considerably in 2001 and Barclaycard continued to raise my limit, despite me having a Barclays account that was always overdrawn. Do I need to accept that the FSO can only investigate from 2015?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you still have the Barclays account?
HW says
Thanks Sara. Yes I do still have the account
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell the Ombudsman this. Barclays should be able to produce either the statements or a list of transactions on your account.
Also say what other information you have and try to get that P60
HW says
Thanks . I will go back to my adjudicator with this information. I was self employed from 2003 so don’t have a P60
I’m so grateful for your help. Barclays are fighting this at every possible point
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok tax return not P60.
HW says
Hi Sara
I went back to the adjudicator and he contacted Barclays with my current account details. Barclays have told him they’re only able to retrieve statements from 2014. So as things stand, he’ll only be able to assess the last three credit limit increases. He said ‘I understand you’re sceptical about the information Barclays/Barclaycard are providing; however there’s nothing to suggest Barclays have the statements going back to 1989 (legally they only have to hold the last six years). So I have to take what they’re telling me at face value. Please let me know if I should go ahead and assess the final three limit increases or if there’s any further information you wish to provide.
As I said I have some random paper statements from 2012 and some tax returns but do I now need to accept that the FSO cannot look into the previous 16 unasked for credit limit rises as Barclays are claiming not to have the statements? Should I ask for a list of transactions?
Gratefully HW
Sara (Debt Camel) says
i suggest you go back and ask him to confirm whether Barclaycard have been asked for a list of transactions before 2014, as it is your understanding that these are sometimes available when statements aren’t.
but ultimately if there isn’t anything pre 2014 then yes FOS has to review based on what there is.
Mr Jones says
Hi HW,
Can I ask what email you used to contact Barclaycard?
I’ve used the one from this site and had no response at all.
Did you even receive a holding response?
Thanks
HW says
Hi
The email address I used (back in February) was wandim.execcomplaints@barclays.com. I had a call back from Barclaycard around two weeks later to say that my complaint was ‘out of time’ so I went to the FOS and the Ombudsman ruled in my favour. Now back with the adjudicator.
Good Luck, be prepared for the long haul!
Mr Jones says
Awesome thank you. I assumed the email may have changed because I didn’t even receive a holding response to say they have received my complaint. So I will hold tight and watch this space
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When did you make the complaint?
Marie davis says
Hi, My claim was rejected because I hadnt changed my name after marrying (I hadn’t realised as I bank with barclays) but I updated my address, I had the 1st in 2015 and
was accepted for a 2nd barclaycard earlier this year with an £800 limit, which I maxed within a month on gambling, I have gambling transactions on my first, also on my bank statements, so I complained, I was told because of the last name being different my 1st account went under the radar on the credit checks, and also my 1st card issued more than 6 years ago. Im under the impression your previous names and addresses stay on credit files, that and the fact my bank details and address were the same for both cards?
I now have a gambling block on all my devices.
NATALIE says
1/2 Received the following from Newday via FOS – regarding my complaints
PULSE (HOF) ACCOUNT – Upheld from the third credit limit increase that was given to you on 31 August 2020, from £3,300 to £3,800.
MARBLES ACCOUNT – Upheld from the third credit limit increase that was given to you on 3 November 2020, from £2,500 to £3,500.
PULSE (AMAZON) ACCOUNT – Upheld from the third credit limit increase they gave you on 1 September 2020 from £3,300 to £3,800.
To put things right, they will refund proportionate interest, all late payment fees, all cash advance fees and all overlimit fees applied to your account on any balances above between two credit limits
NATALIE says
2/2DEBENHAMS ACCOUNT – Upheld from account opening.To put things right, they will refund all interest, all late payments fees, all cash advance fees and all overlimit fees applied to your account from account opening.
AQUA ACCOUNT – Upheld from account opening.To put things right, they will refund all interest, all late payments fees, all cash advance fees and all overlimit fees applied to your account from account opening.
Great news about the last two – but the first three were all opened within 9 months of each other in 2018, should i be pushing for more on the first three? its already with the FOS. I haven’t been sent any calculations, but my feeling is that those first three had a lot higher credit limit from earlier on which isn’t being acknowledged. Do I cut my losses and agree or stand my ground and wait for an ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes I think you should go back and say you don’t think the Newday offer is sufficient. Newday should have seen you were only making minimum payments to the first card (which was it) and not given you the next two and refund all interest paid to those. And it should not have given you the first credit limit increase on the first card.
NATALIE says
Thanks Sara – I will do that
Mr Jones says
I made it on the 18th so only a week ago! It was just because I complained to Tesco at the same time and they have acknowledged it just want to make sure I’d used the right email address etc. Looks as though they take a while to respond so will wait my turn
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would ask them if you haven’t heard anything in a couple more weeks
Mr Jones says
Thanks Sara. I had a letter from them Monday about the complaint they didn’t reply to the email for some reason but at least it’s acknowledged
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
I missed a call from Barclays today regarding my complaint and they are going to call back later. For some reason I am feeling really nervous about speaking to them over the phone I thought it would all be via correspondence.
If I do speak to them on the phone is there anything I should/shouldn’t say?
Basically with Barclays I had a starting limit of 13,700 and then this was increased to 15,700 in 2020 even though I still had over 9k on the card. I managed to get balance transfer cards to clear the balance in April 22 but I have now had money transfers etc to bring the balance back to 10k.
When they increased the limit in 2020 I would have had balances on several other card also maxed out.
It’s basically taken me this long to make an affordability complaint because I previously thought the borrowing was all my fault and plodded away making minimum payments.
Thanks
Mr Jones says
I have also now logged onto the Barclaycard app and my credit limit has been reduced to £10,950 and there is a balance of £10,902.59 and interest alone this month will take me over the limit therefore putting me in danger of extra fees etc. I guess I will just have to speak to them at 4
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so take the call and see what they say. Have a pen and paper handy in case you want to write anything down.
Start by saying that talking on the phone makes you feel nervous.
If it is clear they are rejecting your complaint, ask them to put this in writing as you will be going to the Ombudsman.
If they make you some offer, ask them to put this in writing so that you can consider it.
Say it is unreasonable of them to have reduced your limit so far that adding interest will take you over the limit.
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
Just got off the phone from Barclaycard. They have upheld the complaint and refunded £1,400 ( I can’t remember the full amount but they are sending a letter to confirm) they have also frozen interest until I get back down to the limit of £7,700 I should have had.
the lady on the phone agreed any of the limit rises shouldn’t have taken place from the limit. It went from 7,700 to 10,500 to 13,500 and then 15,700.
The refund has already been applied to my card balance but I also explained I may want to go to the ombudsmen and she said I’ll be able to do that with the details of the letter she is sending.
I will come back with the correct figures when I have them
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
Have finally had the letter from Barclaycard. They upheld the complaint and agreed that the limit increases should not have happened on the card at all from the original 7,700 balance ( it went 10,700 to 13,700 and then to 15,700).
They have calculated the over agreed limit interest I have paid from October 2016 to be £1446.13 The credit has been applied to my outstanding balance. They are also gradually reducing the limit down to £7,700 as I pay the remaining off and interest will also be suspended until I reach that amount.
I just wanted to check that in terms of the complaint they are right to only calculate the interest paid above the original 7,700 credit limit? I also don’t know how they would work out what was interest above that. Could I still take this to the Ombudsman or is it not worth while?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What has been a typical balance over the last few years? What is your current balance?
Do you think the 7700 limit was unaffordable at the time the account was opened?
Or as it ok at the started but your situation had changed so it had it had become unaffordable at the time the limit was increased in 2016?
Or was the 7700 limit still ok in 2016 it is just the increases beyond that that were unaffordable?
Ali says
Wot email address would you use for Barclay credit card as I can’t seem to find it any-were thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above these comments has a link to a page with bank emails
Ali says
Tried the email above says it’s invalid email
Dean says
Hi Sara
Hope you are well
Do you have an email address where I can send an affordability complaint to Sainsbury’s credit card?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The article above has a link to a page with email addresses for banks
Scott says
Hello again Sara
Just a question in relation to the 8% statutory interest. I had a complaint in with Newday regarding a Marbles card taken out in Jan 2017, Aqua in Jan 2018 and Fluid September 2019 which was upheld since account opening. My adjudicator has just gotten back to me today explaining that Newday have (surprisingly) agreed with his findings and so it won’t be being escalated to an Ombudsman. There was a balance outstanding on the Marbles card which I paid off today via the app so I should be getting a full redress. The Adjudicator’s letter states that the statutory interest is calculated from the date of each overpayment to the date of settlement, does this mean that because I’ve now repaid all Newday balances in full that I’ll get the 8% statutory interest for the Marbles card right from the account opening, or just from today? Also, would it be worth sending Marbles some kind of “invoice” to avoid any kind of discrepancy in the redress? How is the interested calculated? Should I just work out the total amount of redress owed and calculate the 8% at a daily rate? Thanks again – I can’t tell you what a relief it is to have years of financial mess and being trapped in debt cleared up with a good ending! :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was the balance? Have Newday said how much the redress will be?
Scott says
The balance was £3,450 for Marbles, £2,400 for Aqua and £1,750 for Fluid. They’ve not actually gotten back to me yet as I only heard they had accepted the outcome from my Adjudicator.
S J says
Thank you Sara for all of your help and advice over the past year and a half! I cannot recommend you and your page enough!
Collectively, you have helped me get back over £12k worth of interest refunds due to unaffordable lending!
£8k back from Very Catalogue
£1.5K back from Santander Overdraft
£3k back from Barclaycard credit card
I didn’t know I was able to make any of these complaints but if it wasn’t for all of your advice I never would have even sent the complaints, you’ve really helped to get me out of a dark debt hole that I thought I would be in for years and years on end.
Gemma says
This is fantastic to hear. I am waiting for a Very claim which is currently with the FOS. Fingers crossed I’m as successful as yourself.
N h says
I’m just going through the process with very. They have rejected my initial complaint so I have now asked the financial ombudsman to look into it.
I just got my new day cards (away and marbles) paid off £8000, my limits were crazy without the correct checks.
My debt reduced now is such a weight lifted from my shoulders.
D says
Hello Sara
I complained recently to virgin for irresponsible lending. I had messaged in here first as I had 4 credit cards opened within a really short timeframe. Anywho I never heard anything back from the email provided on this website (fergus.murphy@virginmoneyplc.com)
Do you have any other contacts? Or what do I need to do next? I was hoping to have heard something by 1st September
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yea there is now a new email address, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/email-addresses-banks-credit-cards/
It is a shame you didn’t chase them earlier.
D says
I know, I wasn’t sure how long I should leave it until I contacted them. I have forwarded the email on but have just realised I didn’t change the dates!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send them another email clarify ing that you are Resending the Email because you never received a response
Kerry says
Hi not sure if I am commenting in right place just a quick question. Have put an unaffordability claim in to jd Williams and if it is upheld I’m unsure of what happens they sold the debt to a debt company, which I paid off about a year later. So the debt has been paid. Just not to them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the complaint is upheld, all the money you have paid will be taken into account for the refund calculation.
Kerry says
Hi so the full amount was paid to the debt company. So jd Williams would not be able to take the refund is that correct.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. JDW will pay you the refund you would have had if the debt had not been sold and all your payments had been paid to JDW
Danii says
Hi Sara,
I have had a reply from the investigator not upholding my Barclaycard complaint. I have tried to summarise the main points from his response but wondering what your thoughts are on if I have any options to challenge this and raise with the ombudsman?
The events in question happened more than six years ago.
I decreased the credit limit in October 2018 and argued it was for responsible financial management, not due to recognising Barclaycard’s fault.
Barclaycard claims I should’ve been aware of the issue when I decreased her credit limit in October 2018.
The regulator’s rules (DISP rules) dictate time limits for bringing a complaint forward. The specific rule in question is DISP 2.8.2.
The investigator acknowledges a difference between being aware of financial difficulties and identifying another party (Barclaycard) as responsible for those difficulties.
It was determined that I became aware of the potential complaint in February 2023. However, the investigator believes I should’ve reasonably been aware by October 2018.
The time window to bring her complaint forward was until October 2021, which has already passed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back and repeat that you decreased the credit limit because it was too high and you wanted to try to reduce your financial difficulties in future. But at that time you had no idea that Barclaycard should have checked the limit was affordable when they set it and when they increased it. So as you did not know they were partly responsible, it never occurred to you that you could have a reason to make a complaint to them about something that you thought was your own fault for overspending on the card.
Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the investigator doesn’t change their mind.
Danii says
Thank you.
The investigator previously asked me if I had any exceptional circumstances that meant I couldn’t complain which I said no to as I was looking at it as an overall 20 year period from card opening. So thought I’ve had done things but not /0
Years worth. But when narrowed down to the time I decreased the limit in 2018 to 2021 I was in a relationship where there was some financial control and other abuse taking place + covid and I was living between 2 countries. All immensely stressful. One of the reasons I decreased the limit was because of this other persons behaviour. Is it worth bringing this up?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can try, but it’s unusual for someone to get a case upheld on “exceptional circumstances” rules. If you have evidence of economic abuse/domestic violence, thenat may help.
Claire says
Not sure what to do. The adjudicator ruled in my favour, Virgin disagreed, ombudsman agreed with Virgin.
is there any further I can say to refute this?I was given a £6000 credit card, they’ve said checks were fine
They’ve said I can go back with further information but I’m not sure what would help?
they’ve said;
Virgin Money acknowledged that Mrs W was gambling but said that it had no reason to request Mrs W’s bank statements and that in this case its normal application checks were reasonable given the size of the credit limit compared to Mrs W’s income of £52,000. It said its credit check showed no adverse data and only £1,310 in unsecured debt and that Mrs W gave it no indication of having a gambling issue.
She had total unsecured debt of £1,310 and no defaults or other adverse data recorded.
Having considered the outcome of the credit check I do not find that this showed signs that Mrs W was struggling financially. I note Mrs W’s comment about taking out lots of credit within a short space of time and having looked through the credit report she has provided I can see that she did take out other credit around the time of her application to Virgin Money. But as the new credit wasn’t shown on her credit file at the time Virgin Money carried out its checks and the credit check showed no new accounts opened in the previous three months I cannot say it should have been aware that Mrs W was taking on more debt at the time.
they finished off with;
Given the size of the credit limit I think that it was important that Mrs W’s income was verified, and I can see that this happened. Virgin Money also confirmed that it was Mrs W’s income (not the household income) that was used in its assessment.
Based on Mrs W’s income and taking into account her other credit commitments as identified through the credit check, her declared rent/ mortgage payment, and noting that an amount was included in the assessment for essential expenditure I find it reasonable that Virgin Money considered a credit limit of £6,200 as affordable for Mrs W. While I note the account was opened with a £5,000 money transfer promotional offer, I do not find that this meant that further verification was needed.
I think the checks carried out by Virgin Money before the account was opened were reasonable.
Anything else I can say?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is any of that wrong or do you feel an important point has been missed?
Claire says
I feel that a credit limit of 6000 is excessive.
I had a 6k overdraft that I was already making use of and had requested a 5k money transfer. Although my income looked good they should’ve done further checks and if they had they would’ve seen gambling.
I did say about requesting a lot of credit all at once but they’ve said it didn’t show in my report as it was too close to the virgin application
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These are some of the hardest cases, where someone with a good salary suddenly takes out a lot of credit from different lenders very quickly, so quickly that the later lenders can’t see the recent applications for credit so they have no reason to reject it.
Abi says
Hi Sara
Any advice on the below. Is it worth taking to Ombudsman?
My complaint was that Shop Direct Finance Company Limited trading as very (the lender) didn’t provide me with the required notice before increasing the APR on my account from 49.9% to 57.9%. Shop Direct should have given at least 30 days’ notice before increasing the APR and allow them at least 60 days to opt out.
Adjudicator judgement was – Based on the information I’ve received; I’m satisfied the lender provided the required notice before increasing the APR on the account and allowed the opportunity to opt out.
But then the Adjudicator goes on to say this: The lender has been unable to provide a copy of the Notice of Variation (NOV) they sent at the time of the APR change, but they’ve provided screenshot evidence it was sent. The screenshot evidences the NOV was sent on 5 August 2017, which was sent along with the statement for that period. The APR on the account was changed on 30 September 2017, so I’m satisfied they had at least 30 days’ notice.
The lender provided me with a template of the NOV they would’ve sent, and I can see this provides the required timeframes, allowing a consumer to reject the changes by giving the lender notice to end the credit agreement within 60 days of receiving the NOV. This also explains, the consumer can continue to repay the balance at the current rate but won’t be able to use the account for further spending. I think it’s likely this would’ve been the letter the lender sent. Therefore, I’m satisfied they followed the relevant guidelines, and I can’t say they’ve done anything wrong.
I can also see the statements sent including the APR, so I think she should’ve been aware of any changes to the rate.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is probably hard for you to recall what was included with a statement six years ago. I assume you don’t recall receiving this?
Have you kept your old statements?
Abi says
No i dont recall receiving this at all. I dont have my old statement. I think was paperless at that point too
I think the investigation does not sound very objective and quite flimsy. They were unable to provide a copy, but provided screenshots it was sent? As a complainant, we have to provide evidence not screenshots as they can be altered. Is that a fair piece of evidence to make a judgement? ‘They provided a template they would have sent’ this could easily have been produced and altered at a later date. It sounds like I am being fobbed off with screenshots evidence they did not send to me, when i initially went to shop direct with the complaint. Is screenshots evidence really enough to dismiss a case?
Statements like ‘I think it’s likely this would’ve been the letter the lender sent. Does not fill me with hope that a proper investigation was done.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I know it feels unsatisfactory, but when a lender sends out tens or hundreds of thousands of identical letters, they don’t have to keep a record on everyone’s file of what was sent.
Lia says
Hi Sara. I’ve spoken to you before to thank you for your advice as I am now debt free. I had 5 irresponsible lending claims upheld and over 15k in refunds!
Only one of the lenders (118) did not deduct tax. Does this mean I owe money? Should I ring HMRC to declare this?
The refund was £4,586 and 8% was £880
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you made a claim to HMRC to recover some of the tax deducted on the other claims? for what tax years?
what tax year did you get the 118 refund amount paid in?
Lia says
I received them all this year. First was February and the last one is being finalised now
I have not declared anything as most of them advised me they had already deducted the tax but the 118 one specifically said it did not and I was confused about what to do
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, so the first thing to do is to divide them into “tax years” – which was paid in the last tax year, which ended on 5 April 2023, and whcih is paid in the current tax year.
Wait until the current one is finalised and then post a list here – lender, 8% amount, tax deducted.
When you post this also say if you are not a tax payer, you are a basic rate tax payer or you are a higher rate tax payer.
Nats says
Hi All,
Does anyone know/have experience of how long Aqua/Newday normally take to respond to complaints? Do they tend to wait until the 8 week mark or sometimes earlier? Thanks in advance
Ross says
Hi Nats,
I my experience, they took the whole 8 weeks and rejected. Sent to ombudsman, who upheld it adjudicator stage. Newday sat on it, for a long while, before they asked the ombudsman for more time to deliberate the adjudicator decision. After this, they rejected it (again) and it had to go to an actual ombudsman. They agreed with the adjudicator but the whole saga was frustrating. However, I was awarded an additional £100 compensation for them messing myself and the FOS around so much.
Thomas says
Hi Ross,
How much longer was it after going to an ombudsman?
thanks
Ross says
Hi Thomas,
When they, eventually, rejected the adjudicator’s decision, it was picked up by an ombudsman within a couple of weeks, who agreed with all what the adjudicator had said. The payout was timely but getting a breakdown for it was not. I did, eventually, get the breakdown to ensure the figures were correct which, thankfully, they were.
Hope this helps?
Lisa says
Hi I’ve sent a complaint to newday, they are a nightmare.. June I complained to them I had 2 letters off them saying taking longer than expected, I’ve now took it to the ombudsman and waiting for them to assign someone to the case, that was about a mth ago and ombudsman said be about 1-4 mth for it to be looked at
Jodie says
They’re dreadful … they will wait until 8 weeks and then ask for more time … I currently have an Aqua/NewDay complaint with the ombudsman- don’t give them the benefit of the doubt, once it gets to 8 weeks, go to FOS. Good luck! 🤞🏻
Mia says
Hi Sara,
I had my complaint against 118 credit card upheld and they’ve been instructed to rework the statements, calculate interest + charges and refund me etc. (I am unsure what the refund will be as it is an old account and I don’t have the statements).
However, they’ve not responded to the ombudsman who have just emailed me this:
”I’ve not yet heard back from 118 118 Money. I will be in touch with them again for a response. However, we are aware of some issues with 118 118 Money at this time and have a process set up to deal with such enquiries with them.
I will update you again as soon as I can.”
Is anyone else experiencing this issue with 118?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you now had a reply to this?
Steve says
Thanks to your help Sara we have had a successful Ombudsman decision on Tesco credit card, over 6 years old too! Thank you so much. Anyone had dealings with Tesco in terms of how long we can expect to wait until they pay out?
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
I had a complaint response from MBNA and they declined the complaint. They said they tried to call.. they hadn’t. They mentioned the FCA limit the time to complain and concerns must be raised within 6 years or 3 if you become aware you had reason to complain. Before coming across your Instagram account and website I had no idea you could complain and thought I’d needlessly borrowed so feel the latter applies to me?
“You took out your original credit card in September 2015, following by two others in February 2016 and June 2016. This means we would only have considered a complaint if you’d raised it by June 2022 (six years later). Or if it gives you more time, 3 years from when we issued you a persistent debt letter.
Your accounts were well managed, but in June 2019 we noticed that you had only been making the minimum payments for over 12 months. We wrote to you explaining the impact this would have and what options we had available to help. We believe this should have promoted you to consider whether our decision to lend was responsible at this time. Therefore the latest we would have considered your complaint would have been June 2022. As your complaint wasn’t received in time, we won’t be investigating further.
You can go to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
Mr Jones says
I assume my route is now down that of the ombusdman? I’m sure I saw information on here on how to do that so will follow that if so. Do I need to add any more info or just explain to the ombudsman that MBNA declined my complaint?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, see the How to Send a Case to FOS section in the article above.
I suggest you include a bit saying you have only recently found out what an affordability complaint is – say how and when you found this page. And say that before then you had no idea that a credit card lender should have checked for affordability and you thought the reason for your high level of debts was that you and your wife had spent too much. You received the letter MBNA mentioned in 2019 and it made you think about how you could get the balance down, but as it did not mention that MBNA no longer considered the limit affordable, it did not make you think that MBNA had made a mistake in originally setting the limit so high so it gave no clue that yoad a reason to make a complaint.
(NB Only include this if it is accurate! Amend it for your case.)
Mr Jones says
Awesome thank you. I’ve just had a response also from a Tesco complaint which they declined. The findings they outlined I don’t agree with so will also take that to the ombudsman.
They have argued that both accounts were responsible lending but I had high levels of credit with other lenders and also cleared the balance with a balance transfer and transferred directly back to it.
While the accounts are kept in good order it has meant I am continuously in my overdraft in order to make the payments as I didn’t want to adversely affect my credit report so will flag this with the ombudsman.
I had actually contacted their financial assist team a few weeks back as my BT offer had ended and the minimum payment risen to a now unaffordable level so will also make the ombudsman aware. Is there anything else you think I should include?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you made a complaint about the overdraft?
Mr R says
Mr Jones,
I received the exact same response from MBNA back in May of this year and took this further with Ombudsman.
After many back and forth with MBNA still arguing that it was older than 6 years the Ombudsman agreed that because I had only just discovered this year that I could be subject to irresponsible lending my complaint could be upheld. This decision was made 4 weeks ago and last night I received further confirmation that the Ombudsman upheld my full complaint and have agreed that MBNA were irresponsible lenders and have requested that they refund me all fees, charges, interest +8% on my 2 accounts. I had 2 account with £7000 and £6500 so hopefully I will hear back from MBNA on these balances shortly.
I would most definitely pursue this complaint with MBNA and take this to the Ombudsman. It has been a lot of waiting and back and forth but worth it in the end.
Good luck.
Mr Jones says
Awesome thank you for letting me know.
Its great to see a positive result.
I assume you just explained to the Ombudsman that you had found this site this year ( or which ever other source)?
I have sent it on to the Ombudsman so will watch this space. It would be great if you could come back when you find the balances too
Thanks
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
I have taken 3 complaints to the ombudsman the first MBNA which was submitted on the 19th October and then I had an acknowledgement and a case ref on the 23rd October. However the 2 others I have submitted on the 26th October and 6th November ( this one is probably a little earlier) I have received no response from yet.
I am just conscious a line in the auto reply email says “If we can help, you can expect to hear back from us within 7 working days. Due to the volume of enquiries we receive, we are only able to reply to those customers we can help”
Should I chase the one from the 26th October or just hold tight?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Had you had final responses from the second and third lenders?
Mr Jones says
I haven’t made an overdraft complaint yet no. I was trying to make my way through all the credit cards then move on to the overdraft so as I didn’t lose track with all the complaints
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should complain now about it, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/
AE says
I sent in an affordability complaint to Tesco for 2 credit cards given to my husband. They claim they have acted fairly and won’t be upholding the complaint. Please see below
You applied for a Tesco card on 22 October 2016, being granted an opening limit of £1100. The limit was increased to £2100 on 15 August 2017.
You applied for a 2nd card on 18 November 2017 with an opening credit limit of £700. The limit was decreased to £650 on 19 October 2021.
FIRST CARD
We received the application online, and having completed checks, we granted a credit limit of £1100… the account was offered on the basis that the data showed you had low existing unsecured debt of £7, and so in relation to your declared net monthly income of £1500, you were not regarded as being over indebted.
… the lending decisions… both occurred 6 years prior to the complaint being registered.
…In addition to this, we wrote to you on 6 June 2020, and within this letter we stated
“As you may be aware, when you opened an account with us we checked to ensure that you would be able to afford your financial commitments”
… we also feel that this letter ought to have reminded you about our commitment to responsible lending, and therefore this is the very latest point that you ought to have considered raising your complaint. As the events are over 6 years ago, and you should’ve known you had cause for complaint over 3 years ago, the complaint relating to account **88 has been raised out of time.
SECOND CARD
As the lending decision for your account ending **86 was made within 6 years of your complaint, this aspect of the complaint has been raised within time.
We received your application on 18 November 2017, and… we were satisfied that you could comfortably afford a 2nd credit card. There had been no deterioration to your financial position, and the information found at the CRAs demonstrated that you were still maintaining your existing lines of credit well.
Although your overall unsecured debt had increased to £3159, this was still low in relation to your declared net monthly income of £1500.
As you passed our credit worthiness and affordability assessments, you were granted the credit limit of £700.
I’ve noted that you believe you were mostly paying minimum payment on your 1st card therefore we shouldn’t have granted you a 2nd card. Having investigated this, I can’t agree. In the 12 statements leading up to your 2nd application, you had paid minimum 6 times, and had paid significantly more than the minimum amount 6 times. You had also not missed any payments or exceeded your limit.
… This is further illustrated in that over the 12 months you had spent £6323.18 and had repaid £4775, which is a large proportion of the total you spent.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have shortened your comment a lot.
So they have rejected the first complaint as being out of time. the Ombudsman may take a different view if you send this to FOS.
Do you recall the letter of June 2020?
They also say you had. Very low level of debt when you opened this card – is that right? What other debt did you have?
The second card they don’t agree that you had been mainly making minimum payments to the first card.
But was the first card normally close to the limit? So you were repaying a lot but then reborrowing that as you were too short to get through the month?
AE says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for your reply. He doesn’t recall the letter of June 2020.
Yes, he did have a low level of debt for the 1st card application but by the subsequent increase on the 1st card there were further debts and then when he applied for a 2nd card the 1st card was at maximum utilisation.
Basically, he was putting in most of his income into the card repayments and was spending what was left after monthly interest had been deducted.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think he should send this complain to to the Ombudsman (FOS). No point in argoung with a bank – they don’t change their minds.
He needs to make it clear that he is complaining about the limit increase on the first card – say he thinks the original limit was ok but by the time of the limit increase he had more debts elsewhere and was every month close to maxing out the card. Say he did try to make overpayments, indeed he often paid a lot at the start of the month but this left him so short that he had to put essentials on the car to get through and it was again maxed out. Say this does not look like a pattern of lending where he would be able to manage a higher limit.
And the same point applies to the second card.
FOS will later ask him some questions about why he didnt complaint about the first card sooner – there are several different things they may ask – come back here when he has the questions.
———————————————————————
I suggest he also asks Tesco for a copy of the June 2020 letter. Just to see what the rest of it says – some people when they have asked for a copy of a letter like this find the lender can’t produce it… but doesn’t delay sending complaint to FOS waiting for this.
AE says
Thank you Sara! Sending to FOS now.
MB says
Hi Sara, the FO have recently upheld a credit card complaint I made with HSBC, however, I am not sure how they will be able to calculate any refund owed to me as they stated they no longer held any records in relation to my account. Any information you have would be welcome. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have any records?
MB says
Not from the bank no, as they deleted my account and i no longer have access to their on line banking. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, what evidence was there that the Ombudsman reached their decision on?
Mark says
My complaint about gambling/unaffordable lending dating back 10 years is now being investigated by FOS. I have stated I only became aware I had reason to complain this year when I saw a post on social media about unaffordable lending.
Despite me stating this, I am being asked when I first thought Bank A were first responsible for me not being able to afford the repayments.
I was always able to make minimum payments, and held myself responsible to repay my debt as I genuinely never knew Bank A would care, and it never crossed my mind that there was a complaints procedure about being out of my depth due to my gambling addiction.
Is that a reasonable answer to give?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this for an overdraft, loan or credit card?
Was this your only problem debt or did you have others and you were juggling money aound to pay the minimums and get through the month?
Mark says
My complaint dating back to 2010 is against Barclays for an overdraft (2.5k overdraft, when I was paid monthly I was still in my overdraft), and also against Barclaycard which funded £100k of gambling over a 10 year period.
I always made >minimum payments and balance transferred to new credit cards/consolidation loans to keep my head above water. My credit limit was increased multiple times from 4 to 20k despite the extra credit I was taking, and in addition to the ridiculously large and frequent gambling transactions on my statements.
Right now I do blame Barclaycard for not reaching out to help me and stop funding my addiction. They were aware the transactions were taking place because I constantly had to unblock my card with the fraud department usually on an automated phone call.
But at the time…
After each gambling episode I obviously knew I had an issue with the affordability, but I was totally oblivious to the fact I had reason to complain at all as I was able to make minimum payments and not default etc, even if it took me years to pay off the consequences of 30 minutes worth of gambling. As far as I was concerned I’d spent some money, and I was responsible for paying it back, which I did, eventually.
Any advice on how to explain myself to the FOS on why it’s within 3 years of becoming aware that I had a reason to complain would be appreciated.
Thank you
Mark says
Yes, it was increased 7 times.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did Barclaycard increase your limit during this period?
and during this time there were gambling transactions on the Barclaycard and on your bank account?
what was the date of the last barclaycard increase?
was the overdraft at 2500 limit the whole period?
Mark says
Yes, it was increased 7 times.
Yeah there were gambling transactions throughout and on statements leading up to each increase.
The last Barclaycard increase was 2019, which they offered me a refund for and reduced my limit back down. But the previous years were rejected, and these are the main part of my complaint as the interest and cash transaction fees were substantial. I know I have a good case, as long as I can prove i’m within the 3 years that I found out I had cause to complain.
The overdraft was increased numerous times also.
Thank you
Kellie says
Hi
I can’t believe I have found this site. I had no idea there were affordability claims available for credit cards…. I dread to think the amount of interest i have been charged over the years…..15 to 20 years of financial struggle and still continuing today but like a lot of threads on here I thought It was all my fault… 12 credit cards all prob elugible for this type of claim. Can I just ask if I do make a complaint can they take the cards away from me, this is my worry as I am using cards to live on essentials daily living. We have always worked but feel like we are drowning still, cannot get out off this nightmare… the odd late payment over the years but always try and pay at least min payment. I have borrowed from everywhere to keep on top of these payments as well as mortgage… reluctant to claim any benefits s this affects ability to remortgage, this is why I am keeping everything crossed that this path may bring us some much needed good news for a change.
also what happens if I asked for the credit limit increases to my credit cards, would that affect my affordability claims?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it doesn’t matter if you asked or the lender offered – the lender should still have made the same checks that the increases were affordable for you.
Claiming benefits does not affect you ability to remortgage – having a low income does. I suggest you use this benefits calculator to see if you might be entitled to anything: https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/. There are literally millions of people who are not claiming what they are eligible for.
When does your mortgage fix end? Who is your mortgage lender?
Kellie says
Hi we are on LVR so paying over 9% with the inactive TMB. Our 25 year mortgage expires 2025, have been on interest only for years because of change in affordability checks after 2008, so BRB stuck a a mortgage prisoner as well for years. The trouble is with benefits, we own our original council house of which the rent goes a long way to help with our currently extortionate monthly mortgage payments, council tax etc. The equity we have in this property would be payable as capital gains if we sell it so will end up with nothing if sold. That’s why we have kept hold of it as the cap gains tax is crippling. So most benefits not available for us because of this asset.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What do you intend to do in 2025 – if you can’t remortgage now, you probably won’t be able to then.
Would selling the other house get the mortgage on your current house down a small manageable amount? CGT is only 20%, so you will end up with most of the gains if you sell the other house.
If not do you plan to sell the current house and move back into the old one?
You may be able to win some affordability complaints but they are unlikely to change your underlying situation by enough – you need to get a plan about what you will do when this interest only mortgage ends as you will not be able to just carrying on paying IO… see https://debtcamel.co.uk/interest-only-mortgage/
Kellie says
Hi Sara,
Yes I totally agree, we do have an exit strategy. We are going to be putting our main house up for sale and downsizing, we just are in middle of decorating etc. To get it looking is best before putting up for sale early next spring. We are very lucky because we still have enough equity to get out off this mortgage nightmare.
Kellie says
We have used our credit cards for years and years to live, anything we have paid over the years to clear them have been via further mortgage advances or balance/money transfers and loans from parents and elsewhere. Like others I thought it was my fault. We don’t live a life of luxury, we drive a very old car, don’t have holidays, work our butts off and are still struggling just to afford the basics. I have had up to 15 cards built up over a 20 odd year period. Numerous increases from most of the issuers over the years. One barclaycard i now have a credit of 15700, I think originally it was about 2000. I Still have 12 cards, most of which have outstanding balances. I rob Peter to pay Paul all the time to make sure I don’t fall behind with any monthly payments. I have been terrified they will take the cards from me if they find out im struggling. We have had numerous years of hardship because of one thing or another, which has led us to this point. To top it all off my husband had a heart attack 4 months ago. Thank the lord he has made a good recovery so far 🙏 These situations take a real toll on your mental health and wellbeing. You Cannot get on with life because of the constant worry. So it’s given me some comfort nowing I’m not alone reading your comments section thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So definitely make affordability complaints a bout these cards
Kellie says
The 1st I knew about these types of claims was 2 days ago after reading your website. So as I understand it, we would have 3 years from the date we knew we could complain before they don’t have to answer the claim? Done of these cards go back to the early 2000’s to present, would they be able to go back that far? I do have many years of statements myself which i have kept for most of the cards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes unless a card lender scould claim there was a reason why you should have known you could complain earlier. – that is a argument you can have with the ombudsman.
Send the complaints in and see what comes back.
I don’t know how far back the lenders records will go.
Do you also have bank statements going a long way back?
Kellie says
Yes I do have bank statements from way back.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s great – it will really help in Ombudsman cases. So send the complaints in and see what comes back. the complaint template asks for details of the credit limit increases.
NATALIE says
Hi Sara, I have received several amounts back from Newday all with simple interest added on, but the interest is only very small as I borrowed money from a family member to clear these cards whilst the case was being done – does that sound right to you? All cards were refunded from 2020. Refund 1 £1,712.91 Interest £12.07, Refund 2 £3,286.02. Interest £23.77, Refund 3 £1,771.58 Interest £12.07, Refund 4 £282.80 no interest added, Refund 5 £1,753.01 Interest £9.84. They passed this information to FOS only and I have received the breakdown after the refunds.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do the refund amounts sound correct?
The simple interest will always tend to be small, but when did you clear the accounts?
Natalie says
The refunds look correct to me with what I can see from my statements. I only cleared the accounts 2 weeks before the refunds started to come through.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then the 8% interest will be tiny.
Natalie says
Ok thanks. Just when I did it with payday loans the interest was a lot higher. Have i done myself no favours by clearing this debt with the borrowed money before they refunded ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
None at all :( Hopefully the refund is large enough to repay the family member.
With payday loans you probably had several from a lender? So the 8% starts running at the end of each loan so it may have seemed more.
D says
Hello, I have recently put a complaint in with virgin over irresponsible lending and have had a letter back today to say they feel they acted appropriately. For reference, I had 2 cards opened with virgin; one in august 2019 and the other in January 2020. Both accounts were for balance transfers.
They have written in the letter that I should have spoken to them about my money woes if I felt that the amounts they gave were unaffordable. They sent letters for both cards to say they were in persistent debt and but no action was taken on my behalf to contact them and explain my worries. Is this the end of the road for me with the complaint now? They have agreed to waiver interest for 1 month to give time to discuss my financial position with their support teams.
I feel worried now that they will expect immediate payment if I don’t get in touch with them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you think the limits were unreasonably high at the time the they were given? Do you think Virgin should have realised that you would not be able to repay a significant amount of the balances before interest started being added? In this case you should send the complaint to the Ombudsman.
They cannot demand that you immediately repay the balances. But if all you can afford is the minimum payment, then it may be sensible to ask for a payments arrangements on the cards and for interest to be frozen. This applies whether or not you decide to send your complaint to the ombudsman.
Louise says
Hi Sara
Hope you can help me , i won a case against the halifax for a credit card i held for which i should not have been given . Today the refunded me £500 for late charges and interest payments . I still owe £4000 on a £4500 limit . They have been told to remove all negative data but i have never missed a payment . I am currently on UC and the monthly payment is £160 almost half of my uc payment . I was wondering if i was to miss payments now would they be allowed to sell to show them . Just might need to rent a new place soon .Sorry for the long question
Louise
Sara (Debt Camel) says
£500 seems a low amount for an interest refund – have you only recently been paying interest?
Tell Halifax you should be able to make an affordable monthly payment without this affecting your credit record.
Do you have other problem debts as well?
Louise says
Hi Sara
Thanks for your reply , i also have another credit card with virgin but only £1000 limit and have a small balance. The halifax account is about a year old , had a gambling problem and maxed it out with cash advance , but seems about right the £500 . Hopefully it will only be for a small time while i get back in to work.
Again thank you for your time
Jodie says
A query about NewDay refund … Adjudicator has upheld my complaint (yay) and NewDay have refunded – late fees, overlimit fees and interest to the account. Would I also be expecting a further 8% simple interest, or has that been included in the interest that they have already refunded? This happened on Thursday and so far, I can only see the refunded amounts on my account, I haven’t received anything in writing from them, should I expect to? If anyone has an experience of a NewDay refund and can advise, I would be grateful! Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How much have you had refunded? Is your account now in credit, if so how much by
Nats says
Hi Jodie, congratulations on your refund with newday thats great! Can I ask how long the process took from start to finish? I’m in the middle of a long waiting game!
Jodie says
Hello Nats,
Thank you! So, NewDay kept asking for more time from the 8wks and I eventually gave up and went to FOS (so if you’ve passed 8wks, I would just assume they’ll keep stalling and go straight to FOS) … I would say that it was picked up in around 4 weeks? But from then, was reasonably swift – they gave me 2 weeks to answer more questions/provide any bank statements etc. Then it took around a week for them to decide to uphold my complaint … they went back to NewDay and within 10 days NewDay agreed and refunded to the account almost instantly. I have closed the account this morning and they are transferring the remaining credit to me.
So, from me making the complaint to FOS it was resolved in 6-7weeks. Good luck with yours!x
Jodie says
The refund was £3,405.48 and this has now put my account £117 in credit
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I am afraid any 8% statutory interest would be very tiny. Almost certainly less than a couple of pounds. Unless you have previously cleared the account or the refund ends up with a large credit balance, the amounts are small.
Nice refund though!
Jodie says
Okay! Yes, I’m happy that the card is cleared – I’m going to close it and cross that debt off my list!
DD says
Hi Sara,
I’m going through old accounts I have which may be eligible for a claim and wondering whether an old credit card would be worth pursuing. Originally opened back in 2002, with Clydesdale bank, manageable limit etc and kept on top of payments. Limit eventually increased to £9,900 as the years went on. I got into a spiral of debt and heavily used the credit card to pay debts off and fund gambling habits. I would often have to pay my credit card bill by using the credit card itself. Fast forward to 2018 and eventually defaulting, my account was sold to Cabot. I managed to pay off the outstanding balance by borrowing from a family member. Although the account is closed and was sold to Cabot, is it worth trying to claim through Clydesdale? I’m not sure what evidence or information I’d be able to provide which is why I’m not sure it’s worth pursuing? Plus with a lot of the spiralling happening from around 2014 to 2018, would it matter it was out of the 6year window?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry you borrowed from a family member to pay this off – for such a very old credit card account there would have been a good chance that it was unenforceable in court. (I am saying this in case someone else reads this and it applies to them.)
The Financial Ombudsman can choose to go back further than 6 years in some cases. Do you have evidence about your financial situation in 2014-18? Such as bank statements?
DD says
Hi,
Yes, I have my current account statements dating back to around 2014 when I created my current bank account. So any payments made to Clydesdale bank came from that account (Halifax) previous to 2014 I had a current account with Clydesdale but switched providers. Would Clydesdale bank have any responsibility for what my current account status would have been as they are a separate bank? Or should they have checked my credit records each year in conjunction with my credit card debt, which was getting worse each year.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok then it’s worth making the complaint. Expect this to be rejected as being too old so send it to the Ombudsman. Bank statements back to 2014 will be a big help.
DD says
I’ve now had an investigator assigned to my case and he’s sent a lengthy email asking a few questions,
So, I’d be grateful if you could please provide your responses to the following questions:
Why didn’t you bring your complaint to the lender prior to 2023?
You’ve said you struggled to make repayments on the card. When this happened, who did you think was responsible for your struggles in repaying the card?
The card defaulted in 2018. When this happened, who did you feel was to blame for this happening?
Were there any circumstances that prevented you from raising your complaint with the lender before 2023?
I don’t have any credit card statements any longer but have all my old current account statements going back to 2015. Reading through the email from the investigator, it appears as though the main issues are whether the case falls within the jurisdiction of the ombudsman and what evidence I can provide. He’s also advised that any increases to the credit limit were done before 2015 so that makes it more difficult to progress the case.
Not sure what to go back with to the investigator?
I didn’t know I could take my case to the lender before now so that’s why I didn’t approach them. I assumed it was my fault as spending was on gambling transactions and sometimes using the credit card to repay monthly. Not sure what circumstances prevented me? Other than I didn’t know I could.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As you say there are 2 issues.
First jurisdiction. That is why the investigator is asking those questions. Typical replies for some one in your situation look like this (but make sure they are right for you!)
“Why didn’t you bring your complaint to the lender prior to 2023?”
I complained this year as soon as I found out that Clydesdale should have made checks that limit increases were affordable for me. Before that I had no idea that Clydesdale had done anything wrong.
“You’ve said you struggled to make repayments on the card. When this happened, who did you think was responsible for your struggles in repaying the card?”
My finances were a mess for many years before I defaulted in 2018 because of my gambling. Getting through to the next month was often my only aim being foolishly optimistic that I would have a win and be OK.. At this point it felt like my problems were my fault for the gambling and borrowing too much. The gambling addiction itself stops you from seeing things clearly.
“ card defaulted in 2018. When this happened, who did you feel was to blame for this happening?”
My borrowing had got so large I could no longer scrape my way through to the next month. But I was still blaming myself for getting into the mess, and also the bookies/online gambling sites. Not Clydesdale.
“Were there any circumstances that prevented you from raising your complaint with the lender before 2023?”
Normally there isn’t anything
The second issue is evidence. If you don’t have bank statements or card statements back to the period when the limit increases we’re being given, it may be hard to progress the complaint.
BB says
Hi Sara, investigator has ruled that the FOS cannot investigate my affordability claim for an overdraft with Halifax. This is because in 2020 my husband lost his job and I rang them and asked them if they could put a payment plan in place to repay overdraft, so I can continue to pay our bills. After I completed an income and expenditure form they refused my request. I complained but at the time had no idea I could make an affordability complaint, I was just trying to sort out paying out bills etc. In May 2023 I read your article and realised I could and then made several against different companies. Is it worth asking for this to be referred to the Ombudsman!
Halifax upheld my initial complaint for 3 years but the account goes back to 2011. Thanks so much
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes ask for this to go the Ombudsman. Say your complaint was not about affordability as at that point you had no idea that Halifax should have been reviewing your account annually to check it was affordable.
Thomas says
Hi,
I had a complaint in about Newday Ltd regarding my marbles card.
The adjudicator agreed with me but Newday didn’t so it’s gone to the ombudsman.
Does anyone know how long it takes for a decision, this has been going on some time now
Shammi says
Hi Sara what is template letter for jd williams I can send them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is in the article above these comments.
Shammi says
Should I write a the whole page of the template letter
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should see it as your starting point and change / delete bits / add bits so it describes your situation
Maddy says
Hi Sara,
I made a complaint about a newday card that NewDay initially rejected. I took the complaint to the Ombudsman a little later than the 6 months after the final response from NewDay, the ombudsman are still investigating due to extenuating circumstances delaying me escalating the response.
They’ve come back today with the following offer from NewDay:
‘’NewDay Ltd decided to review your complaint and have made an offer to resolve your complaint.
Date
Credit Limit
Account Opening
November 2018
£900
1st increase
February 2019
£2,150
2nd increase
June 2019
£2,900
3rd increase
February 2021
£4,400
4th increase
June 2021
£5,900
What NewDay Ltd have offered to do
NewDay have offered to uphold part of your complaint and are upholding from the limit of £5,900.
NewDay are offering to make a refund of all charges and proportionate interest on balances above £4,400. If this results in a credit balance NewDay will also pay 8% loss of cash interest.’’
I am struggling to understand what this offer means and what the value of refund would likely be.
Am I allowed to ask the ombudsman to get NewDay to contact me and give me the specific amount of the refund before deciding to accept?
If they’ve come back with an offer despite declining before do you think this means they think the ombudsman will uphold my complaint?
Any advice would be helpful, unsure what my next move should be. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This will normally turn out to be disappointingly little.
What are the extenuating circumstances?
Maddy says
It was due to poor mental health, I think I submitted to the ombudsman about a week after the 6 month deadline.
The ombudsman have said NewDay Ltd decided to review my complaint which I’m assuming means the extenuating circumstances have been upheld and the ombudsman can continue investigating if I decline the offer but not too sure
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I dont think you can assume that.
What refund would you think would be satisfactory?
You could go back and ask if the adjudicator can confirm that FOS can investigate your case if you reject the Newday offer? If FOS say they havent made a decision on that, say you need to know how much the Newday offer will be before deciding whether to accept it.
Maddy says
The ombudsman have confirmed my extenuating circumstances have been accepted and the complaint now falls in their jurisdiction to investigate.
I requested NewDay send me details of how much the refund would be and it was a £50 refund. I have asked the ombudsman to continue investigating, I’m not sure what I would deem to be a satisfactory refund but £50 certainly isn’t it.
Thank you for your advice.
Catherine says
Hi, I have two complaints with the ombudsman after I received a final decision from two credit card companies.
How long does it usually take to get a response from the ombudsman? They confirmed they have my case and who was dealing with it on 5 October. Not sure how long it will take from that point
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would contact 5he investigator after a month and ask them if they need any further information from you.
Mr Jones says
The typical balance has been high over the last few years at one point they were writing regularly to ask me to up my payment/pay more than the minimum.
I cleared it with balance transfers then pretty much immediately maxed it out with money and balance transfers. Current balance is 9.5k it as more but they took the refund off the balance at the time.
I would say the original limit was unaffordable yes because I don’t think I earn the kind of money to warrant that amount of credit. Previous credit cards I think my highest limit was 3k so it being double is a sign it was too much
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were the balance transfers at 0% interest? If you have Been paying 0% for a lot of the last 9 years then there may not be much interest to be refunded?
Would you say your situation was worse when they upped the limit in 2016 than when you took the account out – did you have lot more debt?
Mr Jones says
They were originally but then they started occurring interest which is why they wrote to me about upping my payments. The offers would have been 12-18 months long maximum in the last 9 years and it wasn’t multiple occasions it was do the transfer then start to pay it off. Yes I would say the my financial situation was worse by the time they upped the limit in 2016 because I had taken out more cards by then where I had multiple when the original card was taken out.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So in this case I think you should tell Barclaycard that this partial offer is not acceptable. You think the original limit was too high, and by 2016 when Barclaycard increased your limit you were in a much worse position as they could see you had a lot of other debt. Say that you think you should get a full refund of all the interest charged from that point, not a partial refund. And say that if this has to go to the Ombudsman, you will be asking for a full refund from when the account was opened.
Mr Jones says
The Barclaycard offer/upholding the complaint was there final response and the letter has details of how to take it to the Ombudsman. I did query when I took the call if I could still do that and the lady on the phone said yes
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s up to you if you want to go back and ask them to look again, or send it straight to FOS.
Latoya says
I would like to leave a very positive comment about my experience with @debtcamel. I have been following this page a couple months now and saw that you could make an irresponsable lending complaint to your bank. I never knew this existed. I had a barclaycard balance of £8187 which I had a massive minimum payment of £331 each month and interest each month was £169. This was unaffordable for me and crippling. I would pay the minimum payment each month but go back and use what I paid because I was so short for cash. I am a single mother with 2 kids and living on 1 income. So, this was a struggle.
I then decided to myself that I should at least try, what have I got to loose. All barclays can do is say no. I followed Sara’s template and made a few changes to fit my circumstances. I was hoping for £3000 and was skeptical that they would accept it. I waited paitently, then barclaycard sent me an email to say they have received my complaint and would do some investigation. I thought to myself that they are going to say no. Then a couple of days later they sent a text to say that they will call me to tell me the outcome of my complaint. They was an option on the text to act for it in writing instead. I remembered lne of Sara’s advice was to ensure you have everything in writing. I was also so nervous and didn’t want to hear any bad news, so i responded to barclays to send me the outcome in writing.
Barclays accepted my irresponsible lending complaint and refunded me £7613 of interest and £231 of late payment charge. This brought my credit card debt to £343 which I managed to pay off this month.
Kellie says
Wow that’s amazing news for you, what a weight off your shoulders…I too an in a similar situation and have only just found this page… never heard of insurable lending rugs before…. so this gives me hope…. well done and good luck for the future 🙏
Tom says
Hi Sara,
This might be wrong page but I’m just wondering if you are able to complain to Natwest as their response confused me.
I opened a current account with them last year and after 3 months I could apply for a loan.
I was accepted for £3500 and I already had loads of others debts at the time which left me in a worse place.
After my complaint they responded on Friday basically saying they have automatic affordability checks set up etc and it’s not a manual approval process.
Do you think this is worth taking further or are they right in what they are saying?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have made an affordability complaint? Was this clear in what you said to them?
What was the interest rate on this loan? What did you say the loan was for?
What other debts did you have at the time you applied for the loan? And had they been increasing?
Was your income being paid into this NatWest account?
Tom says
Yes I made a complaint and was clear I was struggling etc. I used the wording from your templates.
The interest rate was 28.30% and I can’t remember but i think car repair.
I had a lot of other debts at the time including payday loans and maxed out credit cards at around 10k.
No income was paid into this account and never has been.
They have seemed to just shrug it off and make out they do all the correct checks etc..
Eleanor says
Hello,
I have made a few irresponsible lending complaints with creditors now and have also had to send a couple to the ombudsman.
The ombudsman have come back asking for about a years worth of bank statements and I am thoroughly cringing whilst going through them.
I dont earn bad money and some months have earned more or borrowed from family etc. Looking at what comes in has shocked me that I am in this position (just recently joined a dmp through stepchange as per your advice)
My question is, will they be going through the statements with a fine tooth comb? or will they be looking at what comes in vs what comes out?
Every month she has asked for, I have been living in my overdraft and what comes in either matches exactly what comes out, or is less that what comes out!
My perspective was that had the lenders done their checks properly, they would have seen that I never had surplus in my bank and have always been in my overdraft, managed my money poorly!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is very much case by case. If it is totally obvious the credit was unaffordable, then the adjudicator isn’t going to spend huge amounts of time analysing the bank statements. If it’s unclear, then the adjudicator will want to do enough to get a clear picture.
DM says
Hi Sara, did not know where to put this question. My credit card provider has just sent me notice to terminate my credit agreement at the end of Dec. Am not going to be able pay the full amount and will have to check me to arrangement to pay but just wondered what the impact would be on my credit file in this case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you had a claim upheld?
DM says
Sorry, have not put in a claim as was affordable at the time. I owe £650 currently and they want to close the account on 31st Dec as per terms and conditions (states it is a business decision and not because of any misuse of the credit facility) and balance to be paid by in full (Company is KOTO/Credit Thing which is a pre paid Mastercard with credit facility). So just wondering if I cannot afford to pay the full amount by end of December and agree a payment schedule to clear off would this be marked on my credit file as an arrangement to pay or just have a reducing balance as they have terminated the agreement?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should be allowed to carry on repaying the balance monthly and if you are paying more than the minimum payment this should not harm your credit record. But if they remove yiur credit limit this will harm the credit utilisation part of your credit score.
Herb says
Herb, Was this The Credit Thing by any chance?
They are acting very strange. I questioned it and immediately they offered to wipe half the balance. I didn’t even ask for them to do that.
Claire says
During covid-19 Barclaycard cut my credit limit in half with prior warning, would this warrant a complaint? I then had to rely on using another credit card to get by, and got myself into even more debt. Not sure if it is something I can complaint about given they had lowered the amount I was able to use.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did they reduce it below your balance at that time?
Claire says
It took me right to my upper limit, they cut it from £7000 to £3800 approximately, which meant the card was then maxed out
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you may find this a hard complaint to win. If you are saying you got into too much debt, well you would have done if they had left your limit the same, wouldn’t you?
It may be that you could win an affordability complaint complaint against the new card you took out.
Stacey says
Hi Sara
Following your advice I complained to Lloyds regarding a credit card I have that was approved in 2019 as they increased my limit twice from 3,000 to 3,750 in 2019 and again to £4,500 in 2022 even after my borrowing on this card increased month on end prior to these increases, along with having additional credit cards (maxed out) and loans with other lenders. They have sent me a letter to say they decline my complaint and said that they sent me letters prior to them increasing my credit limit to confirm and as I didn’t get in touch with them to tell them not to process the limit increase then that’s why they increased it and don’t believe they acted irresponsibility. They have also stated I told them I lived at home with parents, paid £0 towards rent and were single therefore again they had no reason to believe the credit limit would be unaffordable.
I feel abit like this is victim blaming, is this common for lenders to respond this way? Surely if they did the correct checks as they say they did they would have seen my other borrowing and debts. I am going to take it to the ombudsman as I don’t believe they should have ever increased my limits which have essentially got me into further debt but just wondered if this is something you have seen before.
Thank you
Stacey
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they can make you think its all your fault, this will save them a lot of money.
So your other debts were increasing at this time? The best thing to do is to set out what other debts you had when the card was opened, then again at the time of the first increase and at the time of the second increase.
Why were your debts increasing? Have you complained about other debts as well?
Was lloyds your bank account?
Andrew says
Hi Sara
Not a affordability complaint I have a tesco loan for some reason the dd failed and didn’t get paid I heard nothing from bank or tesco until I got a clear score alert saying they were putting a marker on my file soon as I see this I made the payment I complained about lack of communication and basically I have had a whack on my credit file which I have done really well to get on top off they came back and said they haven’t done nothing wrong but will pass on they should be communicating to customers about missed payments there was 10 days between missed payment and me being alerted by CS and making immediate payment is it worth taking to FOS we are going for remortgage next year and this will kill it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked them to remove it as a gesture of goodwill?
Andrew. says
No they didnt seem to care just said they haven’t done othing wrong but would flat it as a business case to improve communication
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago was this marker added?
Also do you need to borrow more or move house, or do you just need a new fix? Who is your mortgage lender?
Andrew Lammas says
Was added 4 days ago they mentioned in there reply to complaint we haven’t done anything wrong you made the payment manually without us having to reapply for direct debit woke up this morning checked my account t and they have reapplied for missed payment so they have now done something g wrong as paid twice can they take that marker off as a good gesture
We might need to borrow more we are in shared ownership and wanted to buy a bigger share our mortgage deal is foxed with pepper money til Aug 24
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so the first DD was rejected? didn’t your bank tell you? was there a specific reason for this, eg some credit came in late?
andrew says
Yeah was off sick and hadn’t been paid as much as usual got nothing from bank or tesco they said they wouldn’t represent but they have even though I made a manual payment soon as I became aware and today they have represented
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well taking the money now is a clear error as they told you they wouldn’t. Has this left you in financial difficulty?
Naomi says
Hi there,
I have a credit card with Tesco, with a high credit limit. They have increased this twice in the last 2-3 years by 4K, 2K each time. I’m not too far off it being maxed out and have other debt (I had other debt with higher balances when they increased my limit). I haven’t been able to pay this off easily because the interest is high (because of the large balance) so I been making min payments for a long time now.
Do I have a case? I’ve put together the template and personalised it to fit my situation. Any advice you can give me will be fantastic.
Kind regards,
Naomi
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes this sounds like a case
David says
Hello Debt Camel.
Not sure if I’m right but Wave have said they are closing down their lending. Is this correct and fair that I have to continue paying interest as I’m not in a position to pay off the balance (approx £975 of a 1k credit limit)?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The fact that they aren’t lending any more doesn’t change the fact that this credit card debt remains.
What are the rest of your finances like?
When was this account opened? Was the limit set at 1000 then or have they increased it? Do you feel 1000 is too high to be manageable given your other debts?
John says
Hi Sara
I won a case with the ombudsman against santander . The ombudsman said if after the rework there is still an outstanding balance, Santander should arrange an affordable repayment plan with for the remaining amount. Once Mr R has cleared the balance, any adverse information in relation to the account should be removed from their credit file.
The account is still with santander but does this mean they will not remove the defualt until the balance is paid off ?
Is this new i was i usually though the ombudsman would ask for the debt to be removed from the credit file straight away ?
Thanks
John
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s a bit erratic at the moment what the Ombudsman decides in these situations. How far are you from clearing the balance?
John says
I still owe £3000 on a £3500 limit . I am currently out of work but now only have this debt as paid off other debts with rundency money .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is a shame you didn’t offer all your creditors inducing the bank a partial settlement to clear all the debts.
The other debts that you have cleared – have you looked at affordability complaints about those?
John says
Yeah , i did raise a few complaints against the business but as the limits were quite low , i did not win any of the complaints .
Sorry does that mean i will have the defualt removed when i clear my balance ?
Thanks again
John
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes.
If you are out of work, you probably shouldnt be making any payments to this. Is it your main bank account?
Nats says
Hiya,
Does anyone have any experience with Vanquis and how long they typically take to respond? There acknowledgment to my complaint said 28 day but I haven’t heard anything yet….
Darren says
Hi Nats
I put mine in with vanquish on may 28th I got mine final response letter sept 14th
They are very busy I believe but they did say 8 weeks but mine was over that.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you don’t get a reply by 8 weeks, send it to the Ombudsman!
MM says
Has anyone had any dealings with Capital One and how long they take to process any refund after they agreed with investigator who upheld my complaint? Thank you
Robert says
Hi Sarah, I have had 2 irresponsible lending complaints upheld with Santander for an overdraught and credit card. Unfortunately I was a serial borrower over the last few years and had multiple loans over the last 6 years. Does my upheld complaints with Santander mean I have a good chance at getting the other lenders to repay the interest?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it shows you were in financial difficulty. But it is the large overdraft they should have seen on your credit record that matters, not the fact that you have won the overdraft complaints.
Who were the loans from? Did you have several from the same lender?
Robert Stevenson says
Hi Sara. Thank you so much for responding.
It doesnt make for pretty reading but I had 3 loans with Zopa, 3 with lendable, 1 with my community bank, 1 with livelend and one with AA.
Santander refunds have made my life easier but if I can get some from the rest I will be so close to being debt free.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Use the template on this page: https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
Let us know on that page how you get on. The Zopa & lendable you should definitely send to the Ombudsman if you don’t get a satisfactory offer.
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
I was unable to reply to the comment on 10th November.
I have had the final response from all lenders. MBNA has been acknowledged by the Ombudsman and logged. However since I have submitted complaints for Barclaycard and Tesco.
My query is that the auto-reply email says “If we can help, you can expect to hear back from us within 7 working days. Due to the volume of enquiries we receive, we are only able to reply to those customers we can help.”
and I am now outside of that window of 7 working days so was wondering should I call and query it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could do. I would leave it a couple of weeks.
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
I’ve had a reply for the Ombudsman about the MBNA cards and they agreed to assess it even though MBNA thought it was out of time. However as I can’t get bank statements for2015/16 and MBNA say they have no details the investigator says he can take it not further or I can refer to an ombudsman for a final decision, so was after some advice for next steps please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is the problem with old complaints if there is no evidence. Unless you have other evidence of your situation back then?
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
I have a few back and fores with the Ombudsman. He initially upheld the complaint but due to the timescales no data was held both by my bank or MBNA. I have since provided copies of my credit reports and paper copies of the MBNA accounts ( back to the date of account opening).
However here is part of the response
“I’ve looked at the credit card statements, but I haven’t found anything to indicate MBNA ought to have thought you were in financial difficulty, prior to each card being granted. I say this because there’s no indication of any missed payments, late payments or instances of you going over your limit around the time the next card was granted. So, I can’t say MBNA had reason to think you were struggling at these times.
I haven’t been provided with any new information which shows how much you owed in any other external debt, or how the external debt was being managed. Your credit reports don’t date as far back as September 2015-June 2016 either. So, I can’t say you were unable to afford the credit the business gave you.”
There we mounds and mounds of statements sent showing how long the problem has been going on. Do they only assess the cards being granted or the ongoing problem making it unaffordable as the answers I gave to the initial questions explained the scale of the problem ? They have offered a call which I will take but any advice gratefully recieved.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have bank statements going back to 2015?
There were two MBNA cards? How long after the first was the second opened? Had you only been making minimum payments to the first card when the second was opened? How large was the limit on the second card?
AM says
Hi Sara,
I made an irresponsible lending complaint to the ombudsman regarding Lendable – they issue me a 10k loan in Nov 2021, after I’d had 2 other 10k loans in the 3 months preceding this. The adjudicator has declined my complaint (even though my credit report shows these 3 loans in quick succession) and my annual salary being only 25k at the time so I was applying for loans higher than my annual income (going through a bad time) the have said that Lendable didn’t act unfairly as Lendable have proven the carried out a credit check, verified my income and because at the time I had no missed payments. Also, because I said that this loan was taken out to ‘refinance existing debt’ they were obliged to believe me.
They have said unless I can provide further evidence then this is the close of the case. Is there nothing I can do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was the interest rate on this loan?
Who were the 2 other 10k loans from?
Did you have other debts at the time in addition to the 2 other 10k loans?
AM says
Interest Rate – fixed 7.93% per year
Loan Fee – £590. Total repayable – £12,778.69.
I have asked for a reimbursement of the interest and also to have my default backdated to September 22 when I stopped making payments as this currently is shown as May 2023 and all other defaults are now early/mid 2022 I don’t want an extra year of defaults.
Other 2 loans were initially 10k from Nationwide in Feb 2021. Then another 10k 5 months later from Hastings (which I did partially use to clear the some of the nationwide balance) then I applied for the next 10k with Lendable in Nov 21. (sorry just checked all the dates exactly now)
yes – the copy of the credit report I sent to FOS showed –
£5k Credit card 1.
£4k Credit Card 2.
£3k Credit Card 3
£4.5k Credit Card 4
£250 Next Directory.
Overdraft used monthly.
The Hastings loan of 10k and 2k of the Nationwide one.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so had the other debts been increasing since you too the first of these loans?
AM says
Yes – all accounts were in use and had increasing o fluctuating balances, nothing really reduced in this timescale. Thankfully now all are in a dmp and defaulted and I’m on my way to a long old slog of repayments but I just think from previous comments I’ve read that lendable were absolutely unreasonable with this lending (the initial 2 loans I could understand but 3 in quick succession?)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you set all this out, saying it should have been clear to Lendable that the other very recent 10k loans had not improved your situation and Lendable should not have given you another one. Ask for this to go to an ombudsman if the adjuidcator doesn’t change their mind
AM says
Adjudicator has not changed their mind –
I am afraid my view remains unchanged. Whilst you mention you took two loans in quick succession this would not necessarily make this lending unaffordable or evidence that the level of debt was becoming unmanageable.
I can see at the point Lendable completed the credit check you showed the following active credit commitments:
A credit card with a limit of £6,000 showing a balance of £562
A loan with a balance of £11,838 paying £204 a month
A mortgage with a balance of £168,747 paying £691
A loan with a balance of £9,771 paying £237 a month
A credit card with a limit of £6,100 showing a balance of £2267
A credit card with a limit of £4,500 showing a balance of £324
A mail order account with a limit of £900 showing a balance of £258
You could have cleared all of your mail order and credit card agreement balances (£3,458) which would have given you one more convenient monthly payment, or you could have cleared the loan which stood at a balance of £9,771.
I have no evidence to suggest that this loan was lent to you irresponsibly and as such I will not be asking Lendable to do anything more.
There were more cards than this at the time (but shown on differing credit reports) of which copies have been sent.
Am I just flogging a dead horse here or is it worth pushing?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think this is worth pursuing to the Ombudsman level. You may not win, but you have a reasonable case.
I suggest you reply saying you think applying for 3 10k loans in quick succession does show you are likely to be in difficulty and therefore lendable should have investigated more. At which point they could have seen that you had other credit cards as well.
Michael says
Hi Sara
My wife has a Very account and has had for nearly 30 years. About ten years ago she got into difficulty and her account was placed into a “frozen interest “ repayment plan with a balance of about £5k. The balance was just about cleared and her credit limit was reduced to £2k. Over time this has steadily increased to £5400. Last year we got into difficulty again with cost of living etc. we contacted Very and they agreed a payment plan with her shopping frozen until the balance is substantially reduced. Do you think that this is irresponsible/unaffordable lending on the part of Very . If so would it be worth exploring redress?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
her balance was just about cleared and her credit limit was reduced to £2k
when was this?
Over time this has steadily increased to £5400.
do you know when this was?
What is the rest of her financial situation like now? what is her credit score like?
Michael says
Thank you for your reply. The credit limit grew the second time between 2015-2022. Her financial situation is not particularly good. She cannot work and only receives PIP. I pay the bill for her, we have managed to keep up with the payment £180 per month with 23 payments remaining. Both our credit scores are poor (about 460)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what other debts does she have? are you buying or renting?
Michael says
We are buying with Engage (interest only) but are about £5k in arrears. She has a Vanquis card that is just about maxed out at £4500
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When does your mortgage end? What are your plans at that point?
Mortgage arrears – are these very recent? Did Very increase her limit when she had arrears?
Has Vanquis increased her credit limit?
Do you mind saying what her health problems are?
Michael says
Mortgage arrears are recent and there’s 7.5 years left. Plan is to move my elderly in-laws in with us fairly soon , sell their house and pay a chunk off the mortgage and them to save so we can keep paying off every year.
There were no arrears when the limits were increased as far as I can remember.
Vanquis hasn’t increased her limit for about 6 years.
With regards to her catalogue of ailments she is currently under about 6-8 consultants ongoing and has been since 2016.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so what has the mortgage rate gone up to?
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
I have had a response from the Ombudsman and just want to clarify a response with you if I can? MBNA argued that it has been more than 6 years and there was no complaint to answer
1.When did you become aware your credit cards were causing you financial difficulties? (approx. month/year)
2.When did you become aware the difficulties you were experiencing may have been as a result of MBNA’s decision to offer you the cards? (approx. month/year)
3.When you started to struggle to make your repayments, why didn’t you think MBNA may have done something wrong by lending you the money in the first place?
4.What prompted you to make your complaint about irresponsible lending?
5.Were there any circumstances which prevented you from complaining about the credit card before you did?
The answers I have so far are:
1. September 2023 was when I realised the borrowing was out of control.
2. I became aware of it in September 2023
3. I thought it was my fault via overspending
4. This website
5. I didn’t complain because I didn’t know I could.
I just want to give the right answers and make sure the ombudsman is aware I only knew about this option a few months ago after finding your instagram presence.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This needs to really reflect what you thought and go into more detail.
I have pulled some bits from your previous comments so your reply could be something like this (but do change/add so it is really right for you!). I have assumed you didn’t miss any payments? As otherwise you wouldn’t have been able to get 0% transfer cards,
1. My card debts have been high for a while but I was managing my finances by getting new cards and balance transfers when I could. I only really felt in difficulty this September when some 0% deals were running out and I couldn’t get new ones. At that point I looked at the bigger picture for the first time and I realised how much my credit card debt had increased over the years. It was out of control and there was no way I could start to sustainably repay this much debt.
MBNA say they sent me a persistent debt letter in 2019. I don’t remember the letter talking about affordability or about whether the limit was too high – if it had, I might have thought about the limits at that point. I think it just suggested I should try to pay more each month so less interest would be charged or they would write to me again. At that point I didn’t feel I was in financial difficulty or that it was MBNA’s fault. I was able to get a 0% card so I thought that would reduce the interest and I didn’t need to talk to MBNA as that would harm my credit score and prevent me from getting 0% deals.
2. This September when I made a list of all my debts. It was clear that MBNA was a big part of my growing card problems as it was one of the earlier cards I got and then they gave me two more cards. With hindsight I have no idea why they thought giving me the second and third cards was a good idea, but at the time they allowed me to manage to juggle my debts repayments so they seemed helpful.
3. I haven’t really struggled until this September. If you had asked me before then whose fault my debts were, I would have said it was mine for overspending.
4. The realisation that I couldn’t get more 0% deals led me to look at social media such as Debt Camel’s Instagram account and websites such as MSE. There I heard about responsible lending complaints. At that point I realised that MBNA and my other credit cards couldn’t have checked whether I would be able to manage so high a credit limit so I made complaints.
5. Mainly the fact that I wasn’t focused on how much my debt levels were going up until the last few months. I hadn’t had debt repayments problems and cards seemed happy to lend me more. The MSE forums call this the debt merry go round, and I wasn’t aware of how bad it had got until very recently. So I didn’t complain because I didn’t think of myself as being in financial difficulty and my high card balances felt my fault for overspending.
————————————-
It’s a bit repetitive but that is because their questions are and you seem to have a fairly simple story to tell!
Michael says
I think about 7.5% payment is £943pcm on 112.5k loan. Outstanding balance currently 124k
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and this has gone up recently?
Michael says
Mortgage payment was £430pcm we were managing ok until interest rates started to rise from Bank of England. We had no arrears until rates sent monthly payment into orbit! Arrears are over the last 12 months
Lauren M says
Hi Sara
First of all thank you for all your help, I have successfully had over £5k repaid over 3 claims because of you!!
I put an affordability complaint in with Capital One, they took the full 8 weeks and rejected so went to FOS who upheld my complaint, on 16/11 Capital One refunded £1722.85 in interest, £88.20 fee refund, £102.51 8% interest & charged £20.50 tax withheld.
This left my credit card with a negative balance of £628.83 which on 17/11 was charged against the card as a ‘purchase adjustment’ bringing the balance up to £0.
I’ve tried getting through to capital one but to no avail yet, have asked the investigator to get a breakdown from the Capital One contact.
Any idea what this £628.83 purchase adjustment could be? When I saw it I was hoping I could use it to clear off my last debt.
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not heard of this. Fingers crossed they are wiping the whole debt.
Bm says
Capital One have done this with me too, I contacted customer services who advised it was a refund and would clear by the following Monday. I’ve tried to obtain written confirmation of my refund too, but to no avail as of yet.
LaurenM says
Oh fingers crossed then! I sent the secure message to them with my bank details morning of the 17th then the Purchase Adjustment came up in the evening of 17th but no reply on the message. Very strange but the absolute bare minimum of communication from Cap1 from the onset so no surprise!