Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t and the lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
Marin says
Hi Sarah,
I have complained to Barclays about the overdraft and the complaint was rejected . I also complained about my Barclaycard for which I was given an increased limit of £15000 in 2019. I just received a phone call from Barclaycard informing me that my complaint is upheld and I will receive a refund of around £2500. I have obviously paid more in interest which has been crazy and I’m about to enter a DMP as I can’t afford to pay my debt back. From your experience, would it be better to go ahead with taking it to the financial ombudsman? Let me know if you need any further information.
Kind regards,
Marin
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell me about your overdraft – roughly how many days a month are you in it? how long has this been going on?
And about the Barclaycard – £15k is a large limit, what was it before? do you think the previous limit was manageable? exactly what refund has Barclaycard offered, can you copy in the words here?
Marin says
Hi Sara, sorry for the late reply. Just seen your response. They just called and said they upheld my complaint and refunded me £2458. They said they were going to send a letter too. I can’t remember what the limit was before but it went up to £15K in April 2019. At the time, i already had a lot of debt and Amex reduced my limit from £10K to £2000. The overdraft kept getting higher and higher around the same time. It ended up being £5K. They declined that complaint as they said that i was managing it well and there were no issues . I think i missed the deadline for that to go to FO. For the past 2 years i’ve been using the overdraft all the time and for the past year i’ve been in it constantly . Earlier this year i stopped making payments to the account and the overdraft plus charges meant there was £5500 outstanding debt. I am now about to enter a DMP with Stepchange. Strangely yesterday the overdraft was cleared by a payment from Barclays with the reference Branch recovery UN and the account has been closed . I’m assuming the debt has been sold to a collection agency? That happened an hour before i was called about the Barclaycard complaint. I also have an outstanding complaint with MBNA and Newday.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what date did you complain about the Barclays overdraft? What date did they reply?
What date did you complain about the Barclaycard? Come back here when you have the letter about that which says what is happening.
Chloe says
Hi Sara,
I went back to adjudicator regarding my Vanquis increase from £250 to £500. He has rejected it with the below reasoning….
I can see from your credit card statements that you did use your Vanquis card for online gambling. There were 13 separate gambling transactions in the six months between you opening the account and the credit limit being increased. These occurred on six separate days and a total of £480 was wagered. However, no gambling transactions took place during the two months leading up to the limit increase.
I don’t think that the pattern and level of gambling that took place on your credit card at that point, to be high enough for Vanquis to consider it to be indicative of a gambling problem, particularly considering the relatively modest increase in your credit limit in relation to your income.
Whilst you were using your credit limit extensively, you were also making at least double the minimum monthly payment to your account each month. In the months prior to the credit limit increase the minimum payments requested on your statements totalled £77.98 whilst payments into the account totalled £466.52. You were £22.52 over the credit limit on your December 2014 statement, but I see you made a payment to resolve this the following day. So, I don’t think there was anything in how the account was being managed that should have led Vanquis to think you were struggling financially at the time.
—————————————-
I still think Vanquis shouldn’t have increased the limit due to me using the card for gambling and it being at the limit.
Is with asking for the ombudsman, or do you think I should leave it now?
Thanks for your time
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What did your credit record show at the time the limit was increased – did you have other maxed out cards/ a lot of other debt?
Chloe says
I didn’t have any other credit at the time that was my first credit card. I didn’t have an overdraft either.
So my credit report only showed my Vanquis card.
However,
I had taken loans with Avant and Wonga in the 2 months before but the adjudicator has said….
There are three main Credit Reference Agencies in the UK and not all lenders report to all of them. It was not uncommon for High Cost Short Term lenders to only report to one. So, it is understandable that the checks Vanquis undertook did not show up your Wonga and Avantcredit loans.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did the adjudicator say which credit reference agency Vanquis checked?
Chloe says
No he didn’t say.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you ask?
Chloe says
The only other thing I raised was that I took out another credit card and the adjudicator said…
The credit card you took out in January 2015 had a credit limit of £300 until after Vanquis had increased your limit. I do not think that that this combined with your Vanquis card and what their credit checks had shown, would have been a significant enough level of credit for Vanquis to consider concerning for someone with a salary of £30,000.
I know alone it may not seem a lot but with my other points, worth going to the ombudsman?
Marin says
For the overdraft I complained in mid May and they called and then sent a letter saying it was declined in mid June. For the Barclaycard I complained on July 9th and got the phone call and the refund yesterday ( August 9th) , exactly a month after the complaint. They said they would also send me the letter by post so as soon as I get it I will come back on here. MBNA declined my complaint last month and I sent it to the FO yesterday. Fingers crossed !
Many thanks
M
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have 6 months from getting the overdraft rejectto send it to the Ombudsman. So that one can go now.
Marin says
Ah great thanks! I though it was 60 days. I do wonder why they cleared it and closed the account. I can’t access anything now but I guess I won’t need any documents for the Ombudsman? Or do I?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the bank will supply the Ombudsman with statements.
Angela says
Hi Sara, I recently wrote to vanquis for irresponsible lending which they have responded and refuted. They stated that at the time i had no CCJ’s for 45months or missed payments at the time. That they had given me a £250 credit limit and when they increased it to £1000 I had 30 days to decline. Also I had stated I was fully employed and had an income of £24,000. I was untruthful in my earnings as at the time I needed the money. My earnings from the same employment is only currently £20,000. Vanquis stated that I had £8,000 on my credit file when they increased the limit which with my wage was affordable. At the same time I took on a car finance loan and another credit card and catalogue. To which I have sent irresponsible letters to all. In all honesty I sent the irresponsible letter more to see if I could stop lowell/capquest (which is who they all are with now apart from finance). Would you think I have a case to send to the Ombudsman,? I think I might get the same reply from the other creditors too.
Thanks for and any advice you can give.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You still Have the car finance – how much did you borrow (ignoring the added on interest) and how much have you repaid so far?
What was your recent credit history when you took the Vanquis card?
How long until they raised the limit to 1000?
During that time did you only Make minimum payments?
During that time will your credit history have showed that you were borrowing more? Any missed payments or other problems?
The fact you did not decline the credit limit increase is irrelevant- the lender still has to make sure it is affordable?
“At the same time I took on…”
What helps here is if you can make a timeline of all you borrowing.
Eg
Date – Vanquis account opened, limit 25o
Date – very account opened, limit x
Date – Moneybarn car finance 5000
Date – Vanquis limit raised 1000
Date – Aqua card opened, limit 400
Etc etc
This makes it easy to see what was actually happening. If the dates are very close together, same month, a lender may not have been able to see the credit that has very recently been opened on your credit record.
How much do you owe in total at the moment to debt collectors? And priority debts? Any apart from the car finance that you are Paying normally?
Angela says
Thanks for the reply Sara, I have paid all the car finance off last year. Priority debts of council tax arrears behind 2 years and in debt for £3000. And gas of £300. The debt collectors I owe about £3000- Which is the credit card of vanquis, newday and catalogue. I will break down my timeline of debt which I think it was all.within a month or two.
I don’t think I knew what my credit score was back then -and not sure how to find an historical score- My credit report would have shown provident loans and catalogues/mobile phones as previous debt.
Some of the questions I will look into and respond as soon as.
Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you have settled the car finance, you can safely make a complaint about that.
If all your borrowing was within a very short period it may be hard to win affordability complaunts.
You don’t need your historical credit score – your reports will show what happened for the last 6 years.
Charlotte says
When you win a complaint with the financial ombudsman do you wait for the company to contact you? Or contact the company? For the refund that’s due.
I was told Vanquis would settle with me within 4 weeks. It’s been 3 weeks and they haven’t responded to my email.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was this a complaint settled at the adjudicator level? or did it go to an Ombudsman?
Charlotte says
Settled by the adjudicator, Vanquis agreed
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, well Vanquis should contact you. If they haven’t in another week, tell your adjudicator about this.
Kris says
Hello, wanted to ask for some advice.
I have sent irresponsible lending complaints (May,2023) to Littlewoods and Very on the same day. Littlewoods replied acknowledging complaint few days after. Then a month later send me another letter saying they can’t provide final response and need 4 more weeks. Then four weeks later 10 July send me another letter saying they still can’t provide final response and will need two more weeks. They also said I can refer matter to FO if I’m dissatisfied with the progress of investigation. Today 11 August I still haven’t heard from them.
Very didn’t send me any acknowledgement regarding complaint, considering it’s the same company I don’t think they didn’t get the letter since they both went to the same place.
So, should I still wait for Littlewoods response? Write them a reminder or ask why can’t they make a decision? Account is old, opened in 2010, now with a debt collector that I’m paying to monthly.
Regarding Very, should I sent the same complaint letter again?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are both the Littlewoods and Very accounts with a debt collector? what are your current balances and how much are you paying each month?
Kris says
Yes, both. One over £6k another over £2k. Probably half of each amount is bnpl interest. Each paid £10/month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK I think you should ring Very up and ask why you have not had a reply to your complaint. Do not start it again.
Do you know when the credit limit increses were on these accounts? How long ago were they sold to the debt collector?
Kris says
The credit limit kept increasing every other month. Littlewoods increased limit 26 times from 2010 to 2014, Very around 15 times during the same years. I think both defaulted in 2015 and maybe sold in 2016. I don’t have info of when the accounts were sold.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK, have you read the section “An alternative approach for old accounts” in the article above? Because your complaints are very likely to rejected by the lenders, then it can be a struggle to get the Ombudsman to look at them and if after that you don’t have information like bank statements from the times of the limit increases , it can be hard to win.
So asking the debt collectors (NOT the original lenders) for a CCA agreement may be a good alternative.
Kris says
I have all the account info, agreement and statements, the limit increase dates. Only don’t have certain info, that I think I can get since I can request it from the debt collector. My understanding is even though acc’s are old, once you find out about irresponsible lending you have 3 years to bring complaint forward, hence what I am doing. So far Littlewoods didn’t say no, they just taking longer than they told me themselves it’s going to take. Therefore I don’t know whether I should continue to wait or start FO complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I wouldn’t wait for Littlewoods to reply, just send this to FOS. But unless you think the refund may more than clear the balance, asking the debt collector for the CCA agreement may give you a better result. You could try that now, and only send the case to FOS if the debt collector produces the CCA agreement
Anon says
I need some help.
I previously complained about a payday loan 2018.
At the start of this year I realised I could complain about normal credit cards and made a number of cards.
The FOS (adjudicator) has said I’ve brought my complaints too late. They can see that I complained in 2018 and they have a duty to tell the credit card company that I am time barred.
I’m just wondering if there’s anything solid I can consider adding to my argument to appeal the decision?
I’ve mentioned the differences in the two products but wondering if there’s anything else you can think of that may support my argument? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Many people making payday loan complaints thought there were special rules about payday loans because of the very high interest rate. And many people were advised they were only likely to win a complaint if they had several loans, probably more than 3. If either of those applied to you, you may well not have realised that affordability complaints could be made about credit cards. You can point out that if you had known, you would have made a complaint at that time.
The cards you are complaining about – were all the problems (opening the accounts, credit limit increases) more than 6 years ago?
Anon says
Hi,
The adjudicator has said if I want this to go to an ombudsman then it has to be submitted with further evidence or representations.
I’ve already made my representations though and she’s saying without anything further the case is closed without going to an ombudsman.
This is the reasoning th adjudicator had given
I understand what you are saying however the DISP rules are clear regarding when a customer became aware they had a cause to complain. I understand that you were unaware that banks fell under the same rules and you thought there had to be several loans, but ultimately you were aware of unaffordability/irresponsible lending.
Our approach is if you’re making a complaint/thinking about irresponsible lending on one form of credit it’s fair to conclude you have the awareness to think about any credit you may have. So in your case, you complained about the pay day lending which was a high cost credit but the loan you had was also a form of credit. Whether or not it was with a pay day lender or bank does not matter as such – as ultimately what you are complaining about is the credit that was lent to you, therefore in line with the DISP rules, i still conclude that your complaint was made too late.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is your right to reject this decision and ask for it to be looked at by an Ombudsman. Replying saying you will make a formal complaint about the adjudicator if they won’t do this.
Matt says
Hi Kris
Can i ask what email address you used for very . The email i use keeps bouncing back .
Thanks
Matt
Kris says
Hi, it’s Triage1@theverygroup.com for both Littlewoods and very.
Matt says
Hi Kris
Thank you very much for your help , good look with your claim .
Matt
Jodie says
Hello Sara,
I have made a complaint/claim to Capital One and they have replied requesting bank statements/payslips/proof of housing costs from 2017. I have changed both banks and jobs – and moved house for that matter – since 2017 and I have no way of obtaining the information that they have requested. They have said if they don’t receive this information, they will close my complaint – is this reasonable and fair? I am not sure what to do and would be grateful for any advice you can offer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask them to consider your complaint on the basis of the information that have and say that if it is rejected you will be sending it to the Ombudsman.
But you should try urgently to get bank statements for 2017 from the relevant bank – this can still be possible from closed accounts. Without this you may find it hard to show unaffordability to the ombudsman… you do not need payslips and housing costs if you have bank statements. .
Jodie says
Thank you Sara, I have replied to Capital One and am trying to get through to HSBC for old statements 🤞🏻
Tom says
Hi Sara
I have a Tesco credit card that was taken out on or around 26/05/2014. This got signed over to a debt company 27th January 2021, a notice of assignment was sent to me 1st April 2021. There has been some conversations with me and them here and there, also they haven’t chased it for years. Considering it is £5k I just could never afford repayments to them. I now have a letter from INTRUM’s solicitors saying I need to repay it or they’ll put a CCJ against me.
Do I have a leg to stand on with the initial time period of it being signed over? Or is my only choice just to go back saying all I can afford is a small amount each month?
I had gambling issues at the time and attempted to reach out to go for affordability claims as I was in a low place but obviously that’s too late now. Appreciate any help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when did you last make a payment to this?
Tom says
I don’t know when the last payment I made was to Tesco as I switched banks around the time – should they know?
The last time I made a payment to intrum was 2021, had some direct debits that failed but it is only £50
Lia says
Hi Sara,
I’ve used the templates you kindly provided to submit affordability claims and I’m happy to report I am now DEBT FREE right before my 40th birthday. Thank you ever so much!
I am currently trying to help my mother with her debts. We have had good news with a NewDay account, where after the FOS picked up the complaint, the company made an offer to refund all interest from inception of the account
I am not having the same luck with a JD Williams account. The company straight away came back and reduced her balance by £900 but say they cannot go back further as they have no records. She has had the account since the 90s with no issue but in 2009 they increased her limit to £3000. She gave up work to care for a family member who has since passed away, but I feel it’s very irresponsible to give someone in her situation such a huge limit, she has lived in £1000 overdraft for many years. Our adjudicator says there’s no further claim. Should I give up?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What a great birthday present to yourself!
The £900 – how many years were they refunding?
I assume she doesn’t have statements?
If she is in her overdraft for all or almost all of the month, she should also look at a complaint about that: https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/
Lia says
I’m over the moon. So grateful to you!
No statements unfortunately. They say it goes back to 2009 but it doesn’t seem enough to me. One of my claims only went back a few years and I got over 3k! The adjudicator basically shut the claim down saying they’d done nothing wrong, I would like the Ombudsman to take a look but unsure how to word it and not sure how strong the claim would be without proof
I have encouraged her to submit a claim for her overdraft but she is reluctant as she thinks they’ve been helpful to her by giving her it and is currently still using it so they may ask for it to be paid in full?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
She must be able to see statements going back a few years – what is the average interest charge per month?
What was JDW’s exact wording on what they are refunding – can you copy it out?
Is the adjudicator saying that the offer is fine, so that is the end? or that the don’t think JDW have done anything wrong… there is a big difference.
the overdraft – how large is it?
Lia says
When I queried this with FOS, I received this response..
“This because your limit before June 2009 (as far as we know) was £2,600 so you’ll pay interest on balances up to £2,600.
It’s only when the balance is over £2,600 that the interest is being refunded. For example, if your balance is £3,000 you pay interest of £2,600 and the interest you paid on the £400 would be refunded.
Looking at your balance since 2009, you rarely used up to £2,600 let alone above that until around May 2020 onwards.
As a service, we’re happy that J D Williams are doing the actual calculations correctly.”
I know for a fact that she was using the full balance
Would bank statements showing large payments help? We cannot prove it without statements. I’ve logged into her account and can see statements going back to 2020. At least £150 interest each month
I believe her overdraft is around £1500
Lia says
Thanks Sara. Yes certainly..
Part of JD Williams response..
“Due to the age of your account I cannot view any data regarding the application or the credit limit increases applied prior to 2009. Further to this I can find nothing to suggest that we were irresponsible in our historic lending decisions to you.
The following credit limit increases were applied since 2009.
02/06/2009 £2600 to £3000
16/09/2014 £3000 to £3500
Regarding the credit limit increases applied to your account from 2009 onwards I can confirm that I have identified that our checks failed when applying the credit limit increase on the 2nd of June 2009. Based on this, I have taken the decision to uphold this part of your complaint, this will also include, if applicable, any other credit limit increases after this date.
I will remove any interest charges incurred due to you using credit above the amount of £2600, which is the highest credit limit that should have been given to you based on my findings. I will also remove all late payment charges applied after June 2009.
I am sorry that some of our checks failed when applying the credit limit increases to your account and for any upset this may have caused. In view of this I am upholding your complaint.
This is our final response on the matter.”
Chloe says
Hi Sarah,
Can I check this with you please.
The adjudicator has said;
NewDay have reviewed their initial response to the complaint. And, they’re now agreeing with Mrs W’s complaint in full. They’re therefore agreeing that the Marbles card shouldn’t have been provided and none of the limit increases on the Aqua card should have happened. They’ve also accepted to pay 8% interest on the total amount of charges and interest refund.
Is that regarding the interest, or should I get the adjudicator to confirm it’s not 8 percent on the total amount?
The adjudicator then ended with;
NewDay have revised their decision and now agree the May 2015 limit increase on her Aqua card shouldn’t have taken place and they’ll pay 8% on all refunds paid.
I’m pleased NewDay have revised their decision to do this because it’s in line with the approach we take – where a balance has been repaid, and/or the refund puts the consumer in a credit position, we instruct 8% interest to be paid on top of the refund.
I conclude this is a fair outcome particularly where NewDay concluded their evidence showed the lending decisions from May 2015 may not have been suitable for Mrs W.
And, the outcome is also in line with what Mrs C was hoping for.
So it sounds to me that is just one 8percent that’s paid?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It will be 8% simple interest per annum.
Do you have a balance on either account at the moment?
Chloe says
No balance, both cards were settled in 2021.
Do I need to go back to the adjudicator or is okay to accept that?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can go back and check it – good to be clear.
Chloe says
This is what the adjudicator said in regards to the 8 percent
When thinking about interest per annum, this is usually in relation to an investment you make and how the interest will be calculated/applied either annually or monthly.
In this scenario 8% is applied where we’re concluding money was deducted by the business incorrectly, which you then didn’t have access to. The 8% then addresses any potential investment you could have made with this money. So, it’s not broken down to an interest rate per annum or per month like a future investment would be. The 8% is calculated on the whole refund figure and then credited to you in one lump sum, on top of the refund of interest you were incorrectly charged.
Is that correct?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
not really – go back and say you have been told the 8% is a simple interest rate that is applied per annum – ask them to confirm that is right.
Steven W says
Just FYI….. My NewDay complaint is now finally with someone at FOS. This will be my final debt complaint, and by far the worst debtor in terms of ridiculous increases, cash advances etc.. I got a knock back from Newday back in March so have waited 5 months for it to be handled by someone at FOS. Looks like you have had a good response Chloe… I had £6000 total in limits with over £400 pm minimum repayments alongside several other debts. Lets wait and see.
Chloe says
Hi Steve, was wondering how you got on. Good luck with the FOS. I told my adjudicator I accept the offer but I’d be grateful for a break down. I just want this one over and done with. I have a few more that I’m awaiting results on but if I’ve calculated right it could be near enough 8k back for Newday which lol be my biggest refund.
Chloe says
My limit was initially 300 but increased to 1600 in May 2015. The card closed in 2021 I managed to fully pay it back.
But they also gave me a 2nd card in 2018 with a limit of 1k, that ran from 2018 to 2021. So fingers crossed I get what I’ve tried to predict.
I’ll pretty much be debt free if that’s the case. Keep us updated on yours
Steven W says
Hi Chloe and Sara. The FOS have gone in my favour and upheld my complaint against Newday cowboys. All interest to be refunded since the last limit increase of £3600 in July 2021 and all Marbles interest at £2650 since the card was opened in 2021. They have 2 weeks to respond and I expect them to take the whole two weeks at least…. It’s just what they are like. They might contest it but the evidence put forward by the FOS is rather damning.
Chloe says
That’s great Steve. I’m just waiting on my redress breakdown.
Looks like the adjudicator worked pretty quick on your complaint!
I’m expecting a bit of a battle with the 8% though. Let us know how you get on
Sarah says
Hello Sarah,
I have a complaint with newday for credit cards I have just received this reply from the FOS;
Your complaint about NewDay Ltd
I need some more information to help me investigate your complaint. Thank you for your responses so far, I need some more information to help me assess whether your complaint was made in time.
What I need
I need to understand when you first thought NewDay might have done something wrong and what prompted you to be aware of this, including the dates. I also need to know what prompted you to complaint when you did.
I understand the aspects of your complaint about irresponsible lending and why you feel this way, but I need to understand when you realised, or should’ve reasonably done so, that NewDay Ltd might have made a mistake.
Is there a time when they won’t accept complaints from? I am worried to say the wrong thing and my complaint be rejected.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell me about this credit card. When was it opened? When were any limit increases? did you ever default on it? do you still have a balance, if not when was it closed?
Sarah says
Hi Sarah,
Many thanks for your reply, I cannot actually remember when they were opened maybe 2016 think the marbles may have been later just going by the credit increases;
Aqua card;
11th July 2016 (£250 – £400)
17th August 2020 (£400 – £1400)
20th May 2021 (£1400 – £2900)
15th September 2021 (£2900 – £3800)
Marbles card;
15th March 2018 (£300 – £700)
19th October 2018 (£700 – £1400)
7th January 2020 (£1400 – £700 decrease)
14th July 2020 (£700 – £1200)
15th October 2020 (£1200 – £2700)
12th May 2021 (£2700 – £4200)
I believe I have gone over the limit but not for a few years but they have always been maxed out, when I initially raised the complaint with new day they agreed on one of the increases being upheld and refunded some money on each card but I still pay the minimum every month the balances only decreased by about £500 each.
Thank you!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this matters for replying to the investigators rather vague questions. can you look at your credit record – that should show the date the marbles account was opened.
Sarah says
Again Sara thanks for your reply, so I have just checked my credit record Aqua was opened Nov 2015 and Marbles Dec 2017
Sarah says
Hi Sara,
Sorry to message again I am going to reply today I am going to say that I realised after the last increase on both so may and sept 21 and I didn’t realise I was able to complain until I did which was dec 22, does that sound okay? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry I messed your reply
OK so the Ombudsman is asking these questions to see whether your complaints fit into their “6 year rule- you can complain about anthing that hads happened in the last 6 years” – or if they can apply the “3 year rule – you can complain within 3 years of becoming aware that you had a cause to complain”.
the 6 year rule is simple and automatic. The 3 years rule – it is a bit erratic what the Ombudsman decides.
Looking at the dates – the Marbles card was opened in the last 6 years – so all of that comes within the 6 year rule. Good!
The Aqua card – the first increase to £400 is outside the 6 year rule. All the others are within it. Do you think the £400 limit was unaffordable? or is it really the later increases that you are complaining about?
Sarah says
Hi Sara,
Many thanks for your reply, I am not bothered about the £400 increase it was defiantly the other ones I was complaining about, so should I say what I said in my previous comment then? X
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can say that. But I would add a line saying the Marbles card was opened within the last 6 years and the Aqua card you are mainly concerened about the August 20 and later increases, which are also within 6 years.
Sarah says
Thanks so much Sara I have replied I will let you know the outcome :) x
Marcus says
Hi Sara,
I’ve been in contact with very since the start of April now, I’ve received multiple letters from them delaying the final response and also advising me to go to FOS. I’ve done exactly that and awaiting a case handler for my complaint. Very have acknowledged this with a response letter to say it’s being dealt with by the FOS and they will contact them from now on but in the post this week I received a cheque for £30. It says remittance advice but there’s no information with this at all to state what the payment is! I’m just confused as to what this would be for. So I contact very and ask even though it’s with the FOS or not? Or should I contact the FOS even though my case hasn’t been assigned to some yet ? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell FOS about the cheque.
Louise073 says
Hi I’ve got a Capital One Card Complaint put in nearly the 8 weeks is up,how long have people waited on responses with these and do they normally reject cases.Only had one acknowledgment letter throughout the 8 weeks(nearly) .Many thanks.
Chloe says
Last day of the 8 weeks they sent me an email.
Leigh says
Hi
The Ombudsman upheld my littlewoods complaint that I requested to be reopened and investigated further. They’ve instructed them to refund all interest and charges since account opened and apply 8% simple interest. F.o.s advised shop direct had agreed to their instructions. F.o.s said to allow 4 weeks, however now into the 3rd week and nothing from shop direct and I’ve checked my account with them online and theirs been no changes to the balance. I’ll wait the 4 weeks, but can you advise what then happens if they don’t follow instructions from F.o.s? Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was this an adjudicator decision? or an Ombudsman level decision?
Nicole says
Not shop direct but a similar experience, I contacted the adjudicator at the end of the period who re-contacted them to ask why they hadn’t made the refund etc and I was told it would be reissued (cheque sent to the wrong address). It was resolved within the next 2 weeks following that but I was told if they hadn’t replied to the adjudicator when she chased them it would have been escalated (I can’t say I know what this means as I already had an ombudsman decision after they ignored the adjudicator decision prior to agreeing the ombudsman settlement, maybe some way of demanding the decision refund possibly)
HH says
Hi Sara
Me again with my MBNA account, thanks for your advice so far! The FOS has agreed they can investigate why MBNA didn’t reduce my limit in 2018 when they had done so previously when I was struggling, which was the crux of my original complaint. I think my adjudicator got the wrong end of the stick about my main complaint but with a bit of back and forth we are all on the same page now. They don’t appear to like the ‘ I didn’t know I could complain/that the lender was also at fault’ for some reason though.
Anyway, my question is- is there any weight attached to the fact that the account that was in arrears and defaulted around the same time as I paid off my MBNA with a loan and carried on using it, was also part of Lloyds Banking group, so should have been easy for them to see that I was in financial difficulty? Or is it irrelevant as they are different business arms? I actually think the change in business decision might have been linked to the sale, as in why MBNA reviewed and reduced my rate previously accordingly but didn’t post-2016 when it was sold off. Could be clutching at straws of course!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know. You can try to argue that.
Cat says
If you are successful in complaining, what happens? Do they close your account and refund you any amount/wipe off your outstanding balance?
Or do they use it to off set any balance and then keep your account open still?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large is your current balance?
Who is the lender and are you complaining the account should never have been opened? Or that later credit limit increases were too high?
Leigh says
Adjudicator level, but said in letter if they didn’t accept what was said it would go to Ombudsman for final decision. Was then advised that they came back to adjudicator and agreed to their instructions in the letter.
Leigh says
Littlewoods still haven’t communicated with me regarding settlement of my complaint and their 4 weeks is up on Friday. I contacted adjudicator dealing with my case last Friday who said he would get in contact with them, but as yet no further forward. I’ve a feeling this may have to go to the Ombudsman unless littlewoods are holding out till the 12th hour!
K says
Well JD Williams rejected my complaint so I’ve sent it to FOS. This was their explanation for increasing credit limits. If my internal score was so good why did the APR go from 24.9% to 49.9%?! Had to borrow money to pay the account off as I just wanted rid of it!
“Regarding the credit limit increases applied, our records show we offered credit limit increases all your payments were made on time and in full on these occasions. There were no instances where we increased your credit limit where we could see that payments had not been made. Furthermore, your external credit score was positive showing that you were managing your credit and payments elsewhere to a good standard and your internal score with us was also positive. Again, this shows that we have acted within our duty as a responsible lender when considering the amount of credit offered to you based on our internal and external data.
Furthermore, every time the credit limits increased, we did notify you of these changes and there was always the opportunity to contact us to request that the credit limits be reduced to an amount that you were happy with. There is no obligation to accept the credit limit increases offered. In addition, you have chosen to accept the credit limit increases offered, as you have not contacted us to decline the credit limit increases prior to them being applied.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
good points that they massively increased your APR and that you had to borrow to clear the balance.
Shorteh says
I’m on week 15 still no final response they are clowns, I should have just gone to ombudsman as soon as it hit 8 weeks rather than waiting for a final response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
which lender is this?
Shorteh says
NewDay, still waiting for final response…….
Matt says
Hi Sara
Hope your well
I have just won an affordability case against a Santander credit card with the ombudsman.
I still have a balance of £1500 , however I will need to come a repayment as I am currently out of
work. I would like the account removed from my credit file . I have no late payments and the account
has not defaulted . Who do I ask to remove the account from my credit file .
Thanks
Matt
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is no reason why the record should be removed. But Santander should not record a payment arrangement if that is what you are concerned about.
Carl says
I’m about to start an affordability complaint but I’m curious to my chances.
In real life, I struggle now to make the minimum payment but I always have one way or other so my credit rating has always been OK. but even now, the money I pay off, I then spend again o the debt ha been bumbling along for some years. a long time ago, I was successful in a PPI claim so managed to clear the card off (I know that I should have closed it but I didn’t) and a whole heap of ‘life’ got in the way so it’s back to where it has always been £11,000).) I’m curious to understand my chances (I know no-one can say for sure). Debt is with New Day. (I’ve got another with Barclays but I’ve entered into a payment plan with them so that’s almost clear – down from £15,000 to currently £4,000) but it’s still a problem meeting that payment each month. Apologies for the brain dump but sure I’m not alone with this and other will also be good and keep to the minimum payment at least.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can’t estimate chances of success.
It sounds as though you should also consider a complaint against Barclays.
John C says
Hi Sara, just a follow up on my colleagues complaint with New Day. They have come back to them and said they would investigate, usual holding message. Today both of their accounts were closed – Aqua and Pulse. Doesn’t seem to be too much of an issue, probably makes sense esp with such a high balance on the Aqua card, and the volume of transactions to the same website. However they have said since their complaint went in at the start of the month they managed to spend another £250 on the same raffle website. They believe that’s why the account has been closed, though I wouldn’t think anyone would have looked at the complaint yet, as its only been 2 or 3 weeks, and from what I can see New Day aren’t exactly quick at coming back
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think your colleague needs support to stop gambling. Winning affordability complaints will just give them more money to throw at it.
Catherine says
Hi
I received response from Zable who have not upheld my complaint.
They said the increases were affordable.
My account opened with limit of £200. Then it had the two increases;
£500 on 10 May 2023
£800 on 9 Aug 2023
I have said it is too much. But they have said it’s not and I can go to the ombudsman. What should I do now? Should I go to the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was your financial situation like in May and August? had you only been making minimum payments? were your other debts increasing? Any new problems – missed payments or payment arrangements etc?
Catherine says
Very high credit utilisation. Only making minimum payments. I had opened a few extra credit accounts around the same time as well.
I was on a payment plan with a different credit card at the same time (no missed payments though)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
worth sending to the Ombudsman then.
D says
Put in an affordability complaint to Virgin money using the fergus.murphy email your site provided. Have yet to receive a confirmation from last Wednesday but hopefully will have one soon. They offered me a £9300 credit limit when was 4k overdrawn in current account and had about 10k in credit card debt right up to the limit. I did use the money and balance transfer offers to cover the overdraft and 2k of 10k credit card debt but was gambling so soon went back into max debt with those cards and overdrafts.
Do you feel I have a chance of any redress? I sent them bank statements for three months prior which shows the large overdraft which I never got out of. I also pointed out what they should have seen on credit report.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when was this account opened?
Have you also made a complaint about the overdraft?
D says
May 2021. Yes I complained about overdraft with Santander and won at FOS
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have no idea if Virgin will uphold this, but if they don’t send the case to FOS.
If you have not had any response at all to acknowledge your complain in anither week, phone them up and check they have it. Virgin have recently changed the email address for complaints on the FCA register to sarah.wilkinson@virginmoney.com
D says
I got a response receipt from them. The email address is customerrelations@virginmoney.com
Dan
Abby says
Hi Sarah
I have a claim with FOS about irresponsible lending they have said that I am out of the time frame to look at the initial opening of my account etc as it’s over 6 years.
They have asked for further evidence etc if I wish to have an ombudsman look at it. ( investigator has said he will look at the increases of my limit it’s just the initial opening he doesn’t feel about to due to the time frame)
They have bank statements and credit reports already. What else would they need?
I was a victim of a violent crime a year after opening the account which impacted my mental health etc would that be worth mentioning to them/ other medical conditions? As I was looking at notice of vulnerability but they all seem to relate to bailiffs.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was the original limit? when was the first increase and what to?
Abby says
The initial account was opened in February 2016 with £1000, and increases began on 22 April 2019,£2000, 22 May 2019 £3000 and 22 December 2019 £4000and the final increase occurred on 22 December 2021 to £5000.
I had credit cards, loans and overdraft with other places during that time as well.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so to be clear why the adjudicator is asking about this.
– they can look at the increases to your credit limit as they are all within 6 years.
– but they can’t look at the opening of the account in 2016 unless EITHER there are exceptional circumstances OR the adjudciator decides that you have complained within 3 years of having a cause to complain.
What was your financial state in 2016?
Abby says
Thanks Sara
I was in and out of my overdraft which is still currently the case relying heavily on it.
I also took out a loan with a different back in June 2016.
I was a victim of a violent crime (GBH assault) in June 2017 which impacted on my mental health so don’t know if that would count towards the exceptional circumstances.
I put the complaint in on the 18th June 2023 which is when I found out about irresponsible lending.
Many thanks
Abby
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you can go back and argue that up until the last year you were unaware that a credit card lender should have checked you would be able to repay a credit limit in a sustainable way. You thought your money problems were your own fault for borrowing too much and you did not realise that the lender was also partly responsible back in 2016 and the following years. So you have complained promptly after becoming aware that you had a reason to complain, so this falls with the “3 years” part of the DISP rules.
Abby says
Hi Sara
This is the reply I had from the investigator:
Thank you for your email and documents. I’ve added these to your complaint.
Based on what you’ve told me, I can see that a lot of the recollections concerns events from 2017 through to 2018 and 2019. Given that the card was taken in 2016, then this wouldn’t change my opinion regarding whether we can consider if M&S lent to you irresponsibly at that point. Furthermore it doesn’t explain why you needed to borrow funds from your family at that time as I’d requested in my earlier email.
I’m happy to prepare your complaint to be reviewed by an Ombudsman for the purposes of whether we can review your complaint from the point where you received your card in 2016 but if you are happy to accept my opinion, then I will be happy to continue my investigation into the later lending that occurred from 2019 onwards.
Unsure what to reply/ do no as I don’t have any further evidence. Thanks Abby
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The adjudictor want s to know if you still want FOS to look at the inital £1000 limit, in which case it will have to go to an Ombudsman for a decision.
Or if you are content to give up on that and only have the limit increases in 2019 and 2021 considered, in which case he can start work on that as it doesn’t need to go to an Ombudsman.
It’s up to you to decide. If you feel the initial £1000 limit was fair enough but the later increases weren’t, tell the adjudicator this.
But if you feel the £1000 limit was too high and start of all of your problems then you could go back and say:
I told you about some things that happened in 2017 that affected my subsequent mental health as I didn’t know if they were “exceptional cirumstances”
I was also trying to explain why through the period after 2016 I didn’t make a complaint because I thought my money difficulties were my own fault and, as I did not realise M&S should have made an affordability check, I had no idea that M&S had done anything wrong. So I have brought my claim to you within a few months of finding out that I had a cause to complain, which means it falls within the “3 year” part of what FOS can look at.
So I would like this to go to an Ombudsman.
Chloe says
Cheque received today from Capital 1.
Thank you Sara and the great advice.
Timeline for anyone with Capital 1.
Complaint raised via email in February 2023.
Rejected by capital One on the final day of their 8 week time line.
Sent to the FOS and picked up by an adjudicator pretty quick in April. By June the adjudicator had made the decision, by July Capital 1 agreed. Cheque is received end of August.
Chloe says
Hi Jodie,
My complaint was regarding a credit card opened in 2016, C1 initial rejected. The adjudicator asked me questions why I hadn’t complaint, essentially I said because I didn’t know I could and he agreed. I provided a previous credit report (I had one laying about from 2018) but that was it.
Good luck with yours
Jodie says
Thank you Chloe, that’s reassuring! I’ll keep everything crossed 🤞🏻
Jodie says
This is great news, well done Chloe! Can I ask, did you have to provide any further info, bank statements etc. to the Ombudsman… currently at the 8 week mark with Capital One and have a feeling they will reject because they wanted info that I no longer have from 2017.
Zara says
Hi Sarah,
I need your guidance please. I have lost my job and my business finish and I am financially struggling badly, I got cardit cards and loans I can’t keep up anymore payments. I have a mortgage as well. Can you please assist me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should talk to Business Debtline urgently about your options. See https://businessdebtline.org/
Zara says
Hi I will do. How about my personal credit cards and personal loan what can I do about it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is going to depend on whether you have any money left at all after the essentials. Business Debtline will go through all your options.
If you are offering low or token payments to them, you can also make affordability complaints. But remember the affordability is assessed at the time the credit was given, so it will depend on how things were before you lost your job.
Steven W says
Has anyone had FOS uphold their complaint with Newday? If so, did Newday accept the decision and pay up? Or did they drag their heels, come up excuses and then communicate via letters in the post to further slow down the outcome?
John says
Yes i had a complaint with NewDay and they slowed down the process with letter saying they havent yet resolved my complaint and then on the 8 week said they are working on my conplaint and should resolve it soon , 12 weeks later nothing then i referred to FOS there a long waiting list for adjudicators finally got a adjudicator and its been so long but they still havent had a response from NewDay its been nearly 5 months
Ross says
Hi Steven,
Newday rejected my complaint and I sent it to the FOS. The adjudicator agreed with me and made their recommendations. Newday sat on this for a couple of weeks and when the adjudicator chased them, they said they needed more time to consider their decision. Just when I thought they would agree, they came back to say they disagreed and wanted an ombudsman to decide. This went to an ombudsman rather quickly and they backed what the adjudicator had said, along with a £100 distress and inconvenience compensation payment. On a positive note, they were quite efficient in paying my redress BUT I had to chase them for the breakdown of the payment. Please make sure you get the breakdown, to make sure it’s correct.
Steven W says
Hi Ross. Thank you for your feedback. I expect they will do the same with mine.. did they mess about with sending letters in the post to confirm bank details etc? Or via email? I only ask because all correspondence like limit increases and statement reminders were on email then as soon as I complained they said they cannot use email… which obviously is nonsense.
Thanks again, really appreciate your feedback. Newday are by far the biggest cowboys I have come across, all other creditors have coughed up or made an offer but here we are 8 months on with Newday still kicking the can…
Steve says
Try communicating through this email address and keep a record, you can cc your adjudicator too
ExecutiveandMediaComplaints@newday.co.uk
Mel says
Hi Steven, I have had quite a few affordability complaints going on with various lenders – Newday were one of the worst to deal with. They have no email facility and I had to resort to sending things in the post. They repeatedly told me they hadn’t received correspondence from me when I knew absolutely that they had as I sent things Signed For. Because my account had defaulted and been closed I had no access to previous statements and correspondence via the online portal. I put in a SAR request and they didn’t send the information. Newday finally upheld my complaint after 8 months of battling with them but they still wouldn’t provide me with a detailed breakdown of how they calculated my refund so I sent it to the FOS who have just advised Newday they have 4 weeks to reply to me. I pushed Newday for compensation for the distress and inconvenience they caused me and was awarded £140. I know it’s hard but stick at it, I hope you get the outcome you are looking for.
Steven W says
Hi Mel it seems a recurring theme with Newday. Like you, I had several claims going on and all other accounts have now been resolved but I am now on month 8 with Newday since first complaining. As you say they resort to sending things in the post… which is funny because all credit limit increase letters were sent electronically and by email!!. They also never provided the SAR request either.. but now the adjudicator has ruled in my favour I am now waiting for them to reject the outcome and push back to FOS. I will stick with it, don’t worry!
p.s. once they agreed to refund you did they play silly buggers with sending a form to request bank details via post still? I can imagine these can get ‘lost’ too.
Mel says
Hi Steven
It certainly is a recurring thing with them, I’ve read other posts on here relating to Newday, so we’re certainly not on our own. To add insult to injury they kept emailing me to say I had a letter to read via my online portal! I don’t know how many times I told them I couldn’t read things because the account was closed and the facility removed! You couldn’t make it up could you.
That said, the compensation was dealt with very efficiently, in their letter awarding it to me they gave the direct number of the Complaints Team and I gave my sort code and bank account number over the phone and it’s processed within 3-5 working days. The number is 0371 522 5167 (Mon – Fri 9am to 5pm) if it helps you or anyone else reading.
Steven W says
Thank you mel!! Noted.
Mel says
Steven, I really despair at the incompetence, but there is something else that cannot be ignored here. Debt and mental health are a marriage made in hell and this issue needs far more recognition in my opinion. On my debt journey I discovered that Newday are also members of the Lending Standards Board and I really don’t know how they are accredited. I’m not at the end of my journey yet, I’m nearly there, but afterwards when I have more time and energy I am going to write to my MP outlining such issues as this can’t carry on. This is really going to be hard to read but I know of people who have and are contemplating taking their lives over being in debt but there is always a way. I’m glad you’ve gone back to the FOS, I have to say the FOS have been brilliant with me. There are a lot of disgruntled people out there who are very unhappy with this FOS, there are plenty of reviews online, but I have always done my homework and submitted the evidence and that hard work has paid off for me. I have every faith you will get it sorted in the hands of the FOS. It’s annoying but read the poem by Edgar A. Guest “Don’t Quit” during those times of frustration – worked for me every time.
Chloe says
Steve I’ve had my refund amount come through from the adjudicator, it took about week but I can tell it’s not the right the interest. Make sure you get a full break down. It’s a nightmare
Steven W says
Hi Chloe, So from Newday agreeing with the FOS to uphold it took 1 week to get the breakdown? Ok so I should hear something by next week. I have already provided Newday with bank details yesterday. So just awaiting the breakdown and final figure. Genuinely have no idea what to expect.
Steven W says
Hi Mel, Email received this morning from FOS confirming that Newday have agreed with the FOS to uphold and refund all proportionate interest on Fluid from July 2021 and all interest on Marbles.. so I called Newday to provide bank details and to obtain the figure being refunded… but was told my case handler would get back to me regarding the final figure… 3 hours later now I am being told by someone else at Newday they are still awaiting the final outcome from FOS? What are they playing at? I have gone back to my contact at FOS and asked them to contact Newday again.
Steven W says
I am going to call Newday everyday and ask for the figure but if next week I am still being told they are waiting on the FOS then I will have to push back to FOS again and ask them to speak to Newday.
FOS have said that Newday are aware and the person you speak to on the phone are not the actual people that will be calculating the redress so this should be forthcoming in the next few days.. we’ll see.
Steven W says
So Frustrating! Newday are still saying they HAVE NOT agreed to any refund or to uphold any complaint, this is confirmed by ‘Jane’ who works in the FOS complaints team at Newday!! I despair at this lot. FOS are saying that the business (newday) are aware and just bear with it but if Newday are saying Na then what can I do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is frustrating but it will get sorted. Untimately FOS can push it to an Ombudsman decision which is legally binding, but that takes months so it is quicker for the adjidicator (who is probably nearly as fed up with them as you are) to persevere
Steven W says
Hi Sara the adjudicator is going to push back to Newday today to clear up this confusion, but the adjudicator has confirmed that Newday emailed on 05 Sept 2023 to agree with the FOS recommendations.
Reading Chloe’s comments it seems like they only refund the difference in interest between the previous credit limit and the increase i.e. if FOS say a limit of £1500 was acceptable but £2500 wasn’t then Newday will refund the interest above £1500 and not on the whole £2500, if that makes sense.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was the FOS recommendation? That is quite a common decision unless you can argue that at the point they considered the increase it should have been obvious that you could no longer afford the current limit, so the lender should at that point have offered to freeze interest
Steven W says
From FOS yesterday…
“NewDay has now been in contact and have confirmed they agree to my recommendations to remove proportionate interest and all charges for the Fluid account from July 2021 and to remove all interest and charges for the Marbles account”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“proportionate interest” – that means the interest charged when your balance was more than the previous limit that they say is ok.
What are the numbers in your case? what was the “ok limit” and what was the increase after that?
Chloe says
Hi Steve,
Hopefully you’ll see this.
Today Newday paid me 5091. It’s gone straight into my account. I only had to wait 2 days after from receiving the breakdown.
But 1. It’s 8 percent interest on the whole amount not per annum.
And 2. You’ll see below I’ve ask Sara for some clarification on what I should say about the interest they’ve calculated. As it’s defo not enough.
If you read my comments below I’m just waiting on Sara to clarify and then I’ll be going back to the adjudicator.
I’m hoping the adjudicator agrees.
I mean Newday have allegedly accept my complaint in full, if that’s the case the interest calculated should be on the whole amount.
It could be another 3k.
I’m just not sure on the correct wording.
Keep us posted to your journey
Steven W says
Hi Chloe I have now had the breakdown from the adjudicator. Total £1561 for fluid and marbles, payment to be processed in 7 working days. The figures seem correct to me so now just waiting for the payment to land.
Leigh says
Hi Sara, my littlewoods/shop direct saga continues. Beginning of Aug the adjudicator gave shop direct instructions and to act within 4 weeks. Well 4 weeks is up and nothing from Shop direct and my small remaining account balance has remained unchanged (ie no refund of interest/charges, 8% interest applied). Advised adjudicator last Friday I’d not heard anything and updated them on Wednesday but not heard anything as yet. Please can you advise what my next step should be. TIA leigh
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have SD accepted this decision?
Leigh says
Hi, yes the ajudicator advised that they agreed/accepted the decision.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ithe adjudicator will get in contact with them and remind them… If nothing happens after a while it will go to the Ombudsman for a Final Decision which is legally binding.
Leigh says
OK, thanks for that. The ajudicator contacted shop direct last week to remind them, but I’ve heard nothing since then. I emailed ajudicator today and asked them what steps now need to be taken for shop direct to resolve this.
Eleanor says
Hi Sara,
I hope you are well.
I left some messages early on in august and can’t find them. You advised me to get a DMP whilst waiting my irresponsible lending claims.
I have just received my first response from all the claims. Tesco have just rejected my claim and I’m currently in the middle of sending a complaint to the ombudsman.
My credit rating currently doesn’t show any missed payments for 5 years (my old DMP is just about to fall off).
I have started making late payments to some of my debts this summer as the debt is getting out of control. Nothing negative has shown on my credit report yet although I’ve just sorted breathing space with PayPal so I’m sure it’ll start showing some negative defaults soon.
I’m just so torn about a DMP. I know I will feel relieved if I do one, but I’m 29 this year and still renting. The thought of not being able to get a mortgage for another 6/7 years is killing me!
I know a DMP is going to destroy my credit and I can’t shake the doubt I have about it for this reason.
I’m not even sure why I’m writing this. I just need a voice of reason before I make a decision and you have been such a help already.
I feel so much shame and guilt about being here already. As well as pressures around me around financial security, getting a mortgage etc.
Thanks so much
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are your current debts?
Eleanor says
Including my car finance 23k
Although for the debt management plan it would probably be around 16k
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it doesn’t sound as though you have any chance of a mortgage if you don’t enter a DMP.
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-mortgage-with-debts/ not just for the credit history section but for the section on affordability. Those debts have to be almost cleared, which is a mountain to climb when interest is being added AND you have to save. a deposit.
And you just can’t manage without missing payments. Missed payments and payment arrangements show on your credit record for 6 years after the debt is settled… getting defaults at the start of a DMP is actually cleaner as they drop off your file 6 years later.
Eleanor says
Hi Sara,
Thank you – I have made the application to step change today for the DMP.
I feel total relief already.
Could you just clarify what you mean by ‘getting defaults at the start of a DMP’.
I thought that you would show as defaults for the entirety of the DMP, or is an arrangement to pay not the same thing? and thus, not as damaging?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Once you get a default, the debt is always going to be defaulted but will drop off your record after 6 years. A default is more damaging to your credit record than arrangements to pay but arrangements to pay stay on your credit record for much longer. So you have more chance of getting a mortgage in 7 years if a DMP cleared debts that were defaulted than if you have payment arrangements as they will still be showing.
Mel says
Morning Sara
I’ve just submitted an affordability complaint relating to an Argos Card I had, I used the iancook@sainsburysbank.co.uk as on your list of email addresses, it’s still listed on FCA website also (under Home Retail Group Card Services). However, it bounced back to me as User Unknown. I’ve now sent my complaint to Customer.Relations@argos.co.uk and it’s been received ok and they will respond to me within 72 hours.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
thanks!
Nats says
Hi Sara,
Can you request a statement of lending from closed credit cards? Unsure how to find information of when the cards were opened/credit limit increases on closed accounts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t need this info to make a complaint and asking just delays things. The template in the article above asks for the detailed information if you don’t know it.
Lauren perry says
Hi I was wondering if you could help me, I have two ccjs both from being given a loan and a catalog account when I was already drowning in debt, they are both satisfied but obviously still affect my day to day life as they restrict me with things like buying a house getting a car etc. is it worth complaining to the ombudsman? Can they get these removed?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long go were the CCJs? How long before that did you default on the debt? And when were the accounts opened?
Steve says
Had an adjudicator hold up my complaint with Tesco, lender didn’t agree and then it went to Ombudsman. Ombudsman then sent it back to adjudicator to ask me the following questions. Any help would be hugely appreciated:
When you were struggling to sustainably pay back the debt in 2019, and you received your payment demand letter, why didn’t you think Tesco were at fault?
When you were struggling to pay back the card, who did you think was to blame?
When did you realise Tesco may have done something wrong?
Were there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from raising the complaint sooner?
Not sure why I’m being asked these after the complaint was already upheld at adjudicator stage.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is for a credit card?
When was the account opened? Did Tesco increase your credit limit, if so, when?
Steve says
Sorry yes credit card. Opened 2016 Nov, £1100 limit. Adjudicator upheld as I was unemployed and on benefits.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK so Tesco has presumably said that this case is too old to be looked at, which is what the Ombudsman is making these checks.
You said before that your account was opened in 2016 and the limit wasn’t increased – is that correct?
You have also mention gambling before – was that you or your partner?
Steve says
Hi, yes gambling was present on this card too, no limit increase which started at 1100. Partner on zero income except benefits. Lots of late payment charges too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So possible replies are as follows BUT make sure these are completely right for how you felt, change them so they are…
When you were struggling to sustainably pay back the debt in 2019, and you received your payment demand letter, why didn’t you think Tesco were at fault?
I thought it was my fault that I had used the card too much, if I had spent less the balance would have been less and I could have managed the smaller monthly repayments. I had problems with gambling then and wasn’t very good with money and I knew it. It didn’t occur to me that Tesco may have done something wrong because I didn’t know that they should have checked that a credit limit was reasonable so that I could sustainable repay that much.
When you were struggling to pay back the card, who did you think was to blame?
There were lots of late payments to Tesco as i was juggling a lot of debts and trying to get through to the next month. At that time I was blaming myself for the gambling and using the Tesco card too much and having too much other debt and not being able to manage the payments.
When did you realise Tesco may have done something wrong?
I found out about affordability complaints in late 2022 when [explain how you yopu found out – came across something on the iinternet or social media, a friend or relative told you about them, whatever, just say what happened]. At that point I realised that although gambling was a big part of my difficulty, the lenders including Tesco were also partly to blame for not making adequate affordability checks.
Were there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from raising the complaint sooner?
I think the gambling made me unable to think clearly about money for a long period.
Steve says
Just an update, I tailored these responses to my circumstances and the adjudicator has agreed that the FOS can look into my complaint. Adj has sent myself and Tesco a note asking if we agree for it to be looked in to (I have obv agreed), failing that an Ombudsman will decide. Thank you for your help. The adj has already ruled in my favour previously but the Ombudsman sent it back to him to check jurisdiction.
Steve says
Thank you so much for your assistance, really appreciate it
Chloe says
Hi Sara,
I received a break down of my refund due from Newday to but I can tell on the aqua card they’re on paying a small part of the interest.
How do I word it to the adjudicator that this is what they’ve done?
Initial calculation for Aqua
REFUNDS
LATE PAYMENT £24.00
OVER LIMIT £372.00
INTEREST £531.30
CASH ADVANCE £1,207.31
TOTAL £2,134.61
Calculation from first CLI to second CLI for Aqua
REFUNDS
LATE PAYMENT £24.00
OVER LIMIT £12.00
INTEREST £223.03
CASH ADVANCE £142.92
TOTAL £401.95
That’s the figures they’ve given. The aqua card was
Initially 250, then increased to 1500 within 6 months.
The agreed that the increase should never have been given.
They’ve then said;
Plus 8% simple interest due on Aqua £390.56
It doesn’t all add up…
Many thanks
Chloe says
CLI = Credit limit increase.
I’ve gone through the figures and what I’ve done is just add on the 401.95 which is the Calculation from first CLI to second CLI for Aqua.
But should they not have recalculate the interest again?
I’m not sure if what I’m saying makes sense.
The aqua card was given in 2016 and had a limit of 250.
The first credit limit increase took it too 500 the second credit limit increase too it to 1500
Newday have agreed that none of increases should’ve taken place. But from looking at their calculations they’re on paying a small part of interest. Not the full interest.
What is it I need to go to back and explain to adjudicator?
I’m not sure of the wording regarding the interest not being right.
I hope that makes more sense.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how many increases were there? It started at 250 the first CLI was to ? the second CLI was to?
Chloe says
2016 initial limit 250
1st increase was May 2015 to 500
2nd increase was October 2015 to 1500
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so what was the “initial calculation” – was this Aquas first offer to refund interest over 500 as the second increase should not have been given?
then FOS said to refund over 250 as the first increase was wrong?
Chloe says
The exact words from FOS are;
NewDay have reviewed their initial response to the complaint. And, they’re now agreeing with Mrs W’s complaint in full. They’re therefore agreeing that the Marbles card shouldn’t have been provided and none of the limit increases on the Aqua card should have happened.
NewDay have revised their decision and now agree the May 2015 limit increase on
her Aqua card shouldn’t have taken place and they’ll pay 8% on all refunds paid.
——
Aqua initial calculation said this in their response;
we have decided to uphold yourcomplaint from the credit limit increase given on October 2015.
have reviewed the fees charged to your client account since we gave credit limit increases. These amount to £24 in late payment fees, £372 in over limit fees, £1207.31 in cash advance fees and £531.30 in Proportionate interest. Refund totalling £2134.61.
Proportionate interest is the additional amount of interest you have paid as a result of the credit limit increase.
——————————————————–
As Newday have now paid me, is this still something I can ask for the ombudsman to look at?
Or is going to be considered as settled?
I haven’t heard anything back from my adjudicator but I have gone back to her and said that The refund should be a refund of all the interest from the point of them increasing the limit the first time and not a partial refund of interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you are quite right that it looks as though Newday have calaculated it wrong.
Go back to Newday and copy it to your adjudicator and say:
“You initally made me an offer of proportionate interest on balances over 500 from October 2015
FOS told me that you have revised your offering agreeing that neither Aqua credit increase should have happened.
But the new calculation you have done has looked at the refund from the first credit limit increase to the second one and simply added that to your first offer.
That isn’t correct as the first offer was only a refund over 500 and that now needs to be revised so that it is over 250.
Can you please rework your calculation accordingly.”
Chloe says
Thank you Sara, much appreciated!
Kieran says
Hello,
This might be a silly question but if I put an affordability complaint against Barclaycard will this affect my relationship with Barclays who provide my current mortgage?
Kieran says
Sorry read FAQs and I believe it shouldn’t impact
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is correct – it shouldn’t.
And no one has ever reported an issue with this.
CM says
Hi Sara,
I have received feedback from FOS regarding my PayPal credit affordability complaint. I have been advised that the FOS cannot investigate my complaint, reasons detailed below:
“Our service can’t consider every complaint that’s referred to it. We have to follow the Dispute Resolution (“DISP”) rules set out in the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) Handbook. The DISP rules set out the scope of our powers, including the territorial limits.
PayPal agreed your credit facility and increases to your credit limit from its office in Luxemburg – in other words, outside of the United Kingdom. PayPal could trade in the United Kingdom at the time it agreed to lend to you because it held an ‘EEA services passport’.
The DISP rule 2.6.2 sets out amongst other things that our powers do not extend to complaints about business conducted in the United Kingdom on a services basis from an establishment outside the United Kingdom. It also sets out some limited exceptions but lending is not listed as an excepted activity.
The rules that applied at the time PayPal lent to you changed in January 2021, after the United Kingdom left the European Union. It meant that PayPal had to apply for permission to operate in the United Kingdom and give access to the Financial Ombudsman Service from that point on – but not for acts that happened before January 2021. ”
Has anyone else experienced this? It sounds like I cannot take this complaint any further – what do you think?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
One person recently reported something that sounds a bit like this using different wording https://debtcamel.co.uk/paypal-increases-interest-rate/#comment-516240
Natalie says
Hi Sara,
What do you advise I should do;
I have a complaint with Virgin at the FOS.
The adjudicator ruled in my favour and stated Virgin had until 17th august to get back to them.
I’ve emailed the adjudicator on 25th august, 5th September and again yesterday for an update but not had a response.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Phone FOS up and ask what is happening.
Thomas says
Hi Sara,
I complained to Newday about my Marbles CC a few months ago.
They rejected the claim so I sent it to the ombudsman.
The ombudsman have been asking for bank statements etc.
Marbles blocked my card as soon as I complained many months ago but no all of a sudden, without saying anything, they have stopped charging me interest and reduced my minimum monthly payments by a third.
Do you know why this would be?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No.
I suggest you keep any eye on your credit report and see if they record this as a payment arrangement.
Definitely send your bank statements to FOS.
thomas says
Thanks, I will do that.
They haven’t communicated anything at all with me.
Should I let the FOS know about what they have done with the interest etc?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes tell your adjudicator what has happened.
SA says
Hello Sara
Been following the comments on this website for a good few months now! Have put in 3 complaints with the FOS, Tesco bank and Newday have both been upheld by the adjudicator (cards taken out between 2017-2019), but I’m just having some issues with my Capital One complaint if you’d be able to give me some advice as to how I can respond to the below please? I’ve had the cards since 2015 (£200 limit) and 2016 (£500 limit) and have just received this today:
SA says
“You stated that the County Court Judgement (“CCJ”) applied in December 2015 should have been a red flag for the second credit card approved in December 2016. You feel that this was a red flag because it shows the way you were managing your finances and it was irresponsible to approve the second card because it didn’t allow you with the chance to recover from your financial distress. You said that it showed that your default had now reached an even worse status because you had allowed your finances to reach the point of enforcement and you wasn’t engaging with your creditors. You said that you were applying for credit recklessly and desperately which you feel Capital One shows have questioned. You said that you also had a history of numerous Payday loans, which you said is also a sign of financial difficulty. You also feel that your second card shouldn’t have been approved because of the information they held about your account activity on the first credit card you opened. You said that you had shown signs of financial difficulty on the card opened in December 2015. You said that you had gone over your credit card limit several times, once by as much as 136%, You made a cash withdrawal four months prior to the application and you had a gambling transaction in June 2016.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the adjduicator asking any questions? Or saying anything you disagree with?
SA says
(continued)
You feel that these are all indicators of you being in financial difficulties. You said that you did bring the account back into your limit when it would be overlimit, but this was at the expense of you wanting to appear more credit worthy in the hope of getting approved for higher limits due to your financial situation at the time. You said that you applied for the second credit card using an eligibility search engine, not knowing that it was also owned by Capital One. You said that you were surprised they had given you another card even though they declined requests to increase the £200 limit on your first credit card. You want us to reconsider our opinion on this complaint based on the above.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Picking some bits out of the very long reply:
as discussed, the CCJ was for the same debt as what had already defaulted two years ago. A default is recorded when the relationship breaks down between a lender and consumer. All interest charged are stopped after a default. So just because that company decided to record a CCJ for that debt it doesn’t for me increase the risk factor for Capital One to approve the lending.
I don’t agree with this. Getting a CCJ suggests not just that you defaulted on a debt, but that you were unable to put in place an affordable payment arrangement. This suggests that the previous problem leading to the default has not been reolved and has probably got worse, as most people try very hard to avoid CCJs as they make getting new credit and even a new tenancy much harder. So a CCJ is an indication of severe continuing difficulty. i suggest you should argue that to the adjudicator.
You also often made large payments towards the account and rarely made the minimum payment in the first year of you having the first credit card.
If that is correct, then it does suggest you were not in difficulty. But were you making a large payment and then simply spending the same amount on necessities such as food or transport?
I don’t think that having one gambling transaction or a cash withdrawal in 12 months of having the card should flag to Capital One as someone who is in financial difficulties.
I agree with the adjudicator there.
SA says
Thanks Sara I will write back and let you know how it goes! Apologies about the separate posts – there is a word limit!
S says
Hello Sara, provisional response below. Thanks so much! :)
“Capital One opened a second credit card account for Mr G about a year later in December 2016. This had a limit of £500. .. Capital One said it also considered how Mr G had managed his first account. …Mr G said that he struggled to manage this account. While he sometimes paid the balance off in full he then spent it again on necessities or withdrew it and deposited it into his bank account.
…It is true that Mr G paid above the minimum each month and cleared his balance on many occasions. It’s also true that when the account was opened he immediately spent up to the limit, went over the limit twice, used the credit for food and transport purchases, withdrew cash several times and had a direct debit payment returned. .. I think his account management combined with his county court judgement ought to have raised serious concerns for Capital One about Mr G’s ability to manage further credit without it having an adverse impact on his financial situation…
…it should have seen that further credit was likely to be unsuitable for Mr G given how he was using his existing credit card and that it had been confirmed through a court order that he wasn’t dealing with his defaulted debts. … I don’t think Capital One treated Mr G fairly or with due regard to his interests by offering him more credit.”
Took a whole year. to reach this stage Don’t give up!
Linzi says
Hi Sara I have complained regarding my very account which was rejected so I took it to the ombudsman and this is there response
Thank you
Dear Ms B
Thank you for the information you’ve sent me.
I’ve reviewed it and contacted Very today, advising them as it stands I’m minded to uphold your complaint from 9 September 2017 when your credit limit was increased to £3500. I’ve explained my reasons for this and sent them some of the evidence you’ve provided me.
I’ve asked them to get back to me by 26 September 2023 letting me know if they accept my recommended redress approach, or want me to do a formal second assessment on the complaint. As soon as I’ve heard back from them I’ll be in touch.
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you agree that Sept 2017 is a sensible date to start the refund from?
How bad were your finances at that point – were they so bad that you were already struggling before the limit increase then?
alana says
Hi!
I have done an unaffordable complaint for JD William. They have since agreed that it was unafforable and are refunding interest and charges from the first increase. They have said ”If when reconstructing your account, your account fell into credit, you will have 8% simple interest added to the credit balances” and so only offering £2.04 for this. (plus 20% tax taking off) is this true?
i took out an everyday loan to clear the balance once. then started using it again and then it defaulted at £2,934.08 in 2020 and has had a balance since.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long was the gap between clearing the JDW account and starting to use it again?
Have you also made a claim to the everyday loans Scheme? If not, send one in today, as this is a Scheme it follows a different process, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/everyday-loans-george-banco-trust-two-scheme-refunds/
alana says
2018. they are upholding complaint from first increase which was november 2018. cleared it 10 february 2020 (£830). purchased something else july 2020 – paid off straight away, then used it alot from august 2020 and wasn’t cleared again after that and is sitting at 2934. redress only amounts to £989. although i dont think they have calculated that right either.
i just think £2 interest isn’t very fair but i am not sure if i am clutching at straws.
i asked for a breakdown of interest charges etc but they have responded as if they think i accepted it and has went to the debt purchaser to credit my account so i will need to respond to them quickly if going to FO.
i did put a complaint in but they didn’t agree and said i wasn’t due anything. i will respond to this to appeal though.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So in 2018, how much did your credit limit increase, from what to what? When was the coount opened and were there earlier credit limit increases?
At Nov 2018, did you have a lot of other debts?
Definitely appeal the EL rejection – send them copies of your bank statements for 3 months before the EL loan.
alana black says
opened account on 26th of September 2018 with a £150 limit.
They increased it to £250 on 21/11/2019,
£400 on 13/02/2019,
£600 on 13/03/2019,
£900 on 03/07/2019,
£1250 on 31/07/2019,
£1500 on 20/11/2019,
£2400 on 16/12/2020.
so they have agreed from the first increase to £250 and offered interest and admin charges since then. (totalling £964.31)
but they have added 8% interest for credit balances with the explanation ”If when reconstructing your account, your account fell into credit, you will have 8% simple interest added to the credit balances” which results in £2.04, with 0.41p taken off for tax.
however, it is the 8% interest i am confused about and don’t think is fair.
this is what i am baffled about. would the FO offer more regarding the 8% interest incentive?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So in this case the first credit limit was tiny, just £100. So refunding all interest charged over that limit would normally be a very large amount of the interest you have paid… Do you know how much interest you have paid over the years? because I too think £989 sounds like a low amount
This is the amount that you need to challenge. The 8% amounts will always be very low in comparison.
I suggest you go back to JDW and ask how they have calculated the interest refund.
Also ask them how much interest you have paid in each month from Nov 18
Linzi says
Hi Sara
Thank you for your reply
My finances were in a mess I have even sent proof that they were bad.
My very account was opened in 2015 but I guess they are just going back six years I just don’t understand the bit where she as put if they want to do a formal second assessment.
Kind regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if your finances were in a real mess at Septemeber 2017, I suggest you reply to the adjduicator that you thing you should get a Full refund from that point, not a proportionate refund over the previous credit limit. Because Very should have seen at that point that your finances were already very bad and instead of offering you a larger credit limit they should have contacted you and offered forbearance eg by freezing interest.
Mrs Green says
Hi,
I got approved for a large credit card limit from marks and Spencer in May 2019. I have been making minimum payments for a long time and then got approached about persistent debt and they have now issued a default. I have followed your advice and sent a complaint email about my initial affordability. I just wondering on the timescales it usually takes for a response and decision and what I should do in the meantime?
Thank you for your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and they have now issued a default
So you have stopped paying or are paying less?
Do you have other debts as well? This may feel like your biggest problem but could you have other affordable complaints as well?
You should get a reply within 8 weeks. Many lenders reply in the last few days of that period.
When was the account opened? Was the limit ever increased.
Mrs Green says
I haven’t made a payment since the persistent debt letter came as I wanted to work a plan but never got round to it. I have another credit card which I have missed payments on but not a default, this CC increased my limit without me asking.
The M and S credit card never had a limit increase, the account was opened March 2019.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you make a complaint about the other card as well.
Do you have an overdraft you use most/all of every month? Loams?
Whilst you are waiting for the reply from M&S, I suggest you download your bank statements for the three months before the account was opened. And a copy of your credit report. These will help a lot if M&S reject it so you need to go to the Ombudsman so it’s good to be prepared.
I think you should also talk to StepChange about a debt management plan. See https://www.stepchange.org/how-we-help/debt-management-plan.aspx.
This would get new interest and charges stopped on the cards (and any other debts). You can still carry on with affordability complaints and winning one will really speed up the DMP. It gets you into a safe financial space.
Darren says
Hi I have had my final response from vanquis they have partially upheld my claim
They have refunded me interest of £2.500 from limit increase in 2017 to current date.
But from 2013 to 2017 states out of there jurisdiction
I have excepted this but do I go back to the ombudsman for the older dates or is it to late as I have excepted this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did they ask you to accept it in settlement of your claim?
Darren says
Hi Sara no they haven’t asked me to except they had already sent £1750 to clear my card, at the bottom of the letter it states I can go to ombudsman but they won’t go past the 6 years only in certain circumstances
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then you can send this to the Ombudsman.
Darren says
Hope this helps
Thank you for taking the time to make us aware of your complaint. I’d also like to thank you for your patience while I’ve been completing my investigation.
Complaint Summary
We received your complaint on 31 May 2023 within which it was explained that, due to your prevailing financial circumstances, it had been irresponsible to grant you a credit facility and to have later increased your credit limit.
This letter is our final response to your complaint.
Investigation
Under the FCA complaint handling rules, we’re not obliged to consider complaints where:
What you’re complaining about happened more than six years ago, and
More than three years after you realised (or should’ve realised) there was a reason to
complain
Your account was opened on 15 April 2013, with an initial limit of £250. As this was over six years ago the information regarding your application is limited.
In addition to the above, in April 2016 and November 2016 we sent notifications of our intention to increase your credit limit.
Our records show, you exceeded your contractual agreed credit limit with us between April 2018 until October 2018, and you incurred 6 over limit charges during this period. You then exceeded your credit limit from January 2019 until and April 2019, incurring two further over limit charges. We sent you multiple text messages between 03 May 2018 and 04 February 2019 (at least 9) highlighting the status of your account.
These are the dates:
15/04/2013 Initial borrowing £250 Out of Jurisdiction
19/04/2016 Credit Limit Increase 1 £1,000 Out of Jurisdiction
21/11/2016 Credit Limit Increase 2 £2,000 Out of Jurisdiction
05/10/2017 Credit Limit Increase 3 £3,000 Upheld
Based on the information I’ve reviewed, we are partially Upholding your complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know if they have refunded all the interest since Oct 17? Or just the interest charged on balances over 2000?
Darren says
Hi Sara
I am unsure this is what it say on my letter
Following investigation of the remainder of your complaint, we have determined that this portion is upheld. We have not been able to satisfy ourselves that the lending which took place at this time was suitable for you.
We are therefore upholding your complaint from the point of the third credit limit increase which came into force on 05 October 2017. To put things right, we’ve arranged a refund of the interest incurred and subsequent charges. This totals £2,560.94
I am really happy with this and thank you for this website as your cover letter really helped me, I can go to the ombudsman but was checking if it’s worth it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can. But if you are reeally happy with the offer, do you want to? I encourage people to take unsatisfactory offers to FOS, you are the best judge of whether you think the offer is fair.
Darren says
Hi Sara can u please give me advice on what to reply to the ombudsman this is what they are asking.
Please can you provide responses to the following:
You’ve said that you’ve gone over your limit and incurred charges on multiple occasions. Prior to complaining, when this happened, who did you think was responsible for this happening?
You’ve said you felt you were in persistent debt with Vanquis, when did this first start to become a problem?
Who did you blame for the struggle this caused you?
Thank you for your response
Regards Darren
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You’ve said that you’ve gone over your limit and incurred charges on multiple occasions. Prior to complaining, when this happened, who did you think was responsible for this happening?
many people use wording something like this, but make sure it is right for how you felt. “I thought it was my fault, directly for using the Vanquis card too much and indirectly through having such a lot of debts that it was hard to avoid using the card for essential expenditure.”
You’ve said you felt you were in persistent debt with Vanquis, when did this first start to become a problem?
…. did Vanquis or any other card lender write you a letter referring to persistent debt? … or did you see any news articles referring to this? … do you know how long ago? … and how long have you had problems with the Vanquis card, being unable to bring the balance down? ….
Who did you blame for the struggle this caused you?
“Until I heard that Vanquis should have checked that the limit was manageable for be when they increased it, I blamed myself as I kew I hadn’t manages my finances well and I didn’t know Vanquis was parly to blam e by not making proper checks.”
Darren says
Hi Sara
The adjudicator have come back to me regarding the older limit increases, he have said that that as I didn’t know about affordability complaints until may this year he have written to vanquish and said the older dates are in jurisdiction, he have given vanquish 2 weeks to agree or take it to ombudsman. What happens now in your opinion? If they do agree do the adjudicator decide if it’s to be upheld or do I have to go back to vanquish?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If Vanquis agrees, then the case will be looked at by an adjudicator/investigator at FOS.
Darren says
Hi Sara
Vanquish had until today if they agree with the adjudicator about looking in to my full complaint, they contacted the adjudicator today and have agreed to uphold my full complaint from when I opened the account in April 2013 to current date, I am now waiting for vanquish to contact me with full refund of all interest and charges. How long do this normally take do u know? Also this is great news thank you for all your help
Chloe says
Hi Sara,
I went back to Newday as you advised and informed them they needed to recalculate the interest.
Newday have just got back to me and confirmed Further refund due of £2,274.98.
That means in total my Newday payout was 8175!
I couldn’t have done it without your templates or advice. Thank you so much!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am very pleased that their error has now been corrected. Well done for realising the numbers weren’t right and persisting!
Natasha says
The investigator at the fos has been in touch asking if I have any records going back to 2010! Is this maybe a good sign in my favour or is it common for them to ask for records going further back? His exact request was “Barclaycard have stated the date range of this review does not precede October 2014 as they do not hold any records this point. Would you be able to provide me any Bank statements or any other supporting evidence prior to October 2014. The earliest date I can see on file is May 2010. I would be grateful if you could provide me Bank account statements or any other supporting evidence from February 2010 to May 2010.” I hadn’t asked to go back more than the six years which is why I’m surprised, do they sometimes decide to go back further on their own? Or is there some obvious reason to want this that I’m missing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Someone they decide that you have a more general complaint and look at that. Other times they only go on what you asked for.
What dates were the limit increases on your card?
Natasha says
The card was opened in 2004 with a limit of £480 they then increased at some point to 3880 but I’m not sure when definitely before 2015 they then increased it to £7900 in November 2016 when I was unemployed due to ill health they then dropped it to 4000 when I rang them up the next month. It was that increase I was using to complain but I wasn’t very hopeful. I complained to Barclaycard last September they took a long time to respond and then it’s been waiting since February or so for someone to be assigned at fos to look at it. I’m guessing it’s possible that the increased happened in 2010. I was using payday loans etc heavily at that time which I do have evidence of, I’m looking to see if I have any records I can send. So far I have found things from 2009 for the card but nothing for 2010 so I’m not sure what I’ll be able to send him.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Tell them what you have.
Natasha says
Well I was just getting ready to send what I had when I have received a new email from a different investigator at fos. I checked at the same reference number is used but this investigator is also asking for older records albeit a lot more of them.
(To assist me with your complaint can I please ask that you send me the following:
Bank statements from March, April and May 2006
Bank statements from February, March and April 2010
Bank statements from January, February and March 2011
Bank statements from July, August and September 2012
Bank statements from September, October and November 2016)
I’m not sure what is going on, if a new investigator has taken over or if my complaint has been accidentally double assigned have you ever heard of this happening? I’m trying to find as much of it as I can and send it before the end of the week which was the deadline the first person gave me. I’m thinking it’s best to send everything to both of them and let them sort it out?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I should phone up the second one nd ask if you still need to respond to the first one.
Mr Jones says
Hi Sara,
Wonder if your able to help please.
I’ve got numerous credit cards where the I am now struggling to pay at least the minimum. The reason being I’ve essentially moved the balances from one card to another for the promotional offers but I have never cleared them.
During this time I have managed to open 3x MBNA cards 2x Tesco 1x Barclaycard 1xHSBC 1x Santander 1x Virgin so you can see the scale of the problem.
I have scrolled through emails and from as long as I can remember mainly 2015 ish I have been making money and balance transfers so robbing Peter to pay Paul. I’ve also tried to make bigger payments as and when I can.
The Barclaycard limit went from 7,700 to 13,700 so nearly double and now it’s at 15,700 all during that time I was having persistent debt letters from MBNA.
I have never defaulted or missed a payment miraculously but now I think that could soon be the case.
The Tesco, HSBC, Santander and Virgin cards are relatively new but I would argue that with my levels of debt they should not have lent to me anyway!
Do you think I could have affordability claims against them all or just the older ones?
Also I need to be careful with the HSBC one as they are my main bank and basically my overdraft is what is allowing me to make the payments at the moment!
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you have 3 MBNA cards and 2 Tesco cards now, or have you closed some?
How many of the cards are still at 0%?
Tell me about your overdraft – how large is it and how many days of the month roughly are you in it? How long has this been going on for?
Can you go back and get a time line of this credit card shuffling…
One line per event, in date order. You should be able to work out most of this from emails and credit reports. This is the key to making good complaints when you have had a lot of cards as it demonstrates what each card should have been able to see when they opened an account or raised your credit limit. Eg
Dec17 MBNA card 2 opened, credit limit 1500
Apr18 Santander card opened , credit limit 2000
July18 Barclaycard increased credit limit from 9000 to 12000
Sep18 MBNA card 2 increase credit limit 1500 to 2500
Etc etc
It is not just the old cards you may have a good claim against!
Mr Jones says
Yeah still have 3x MBNA and 2x Tesco now but 2 of the MBNA do not have balances, one recently paid off and the other kept open for credit card utilisation and in all honesty hope of a balance transfer offer.
The Santander and Virgin are 0% until May 25 and Jan 25 respectively.
The overdraft is 1300 and I am quite often in it at varying levels from 2019 looking at my statements
Barclaycard August 2015 open £7,700 limit July 2017 £13,700 . Currently £15,700 ( can’t find the email to show the increase though)
Tesco 1 November 19 open £6,200 limit
Tesco 2 Jan 2022 open £5,000 limit
MBNA 1 September 15 open – £2,000 limit
MBNA 2 June 2016 open -£2,600 limit
MBNA 3 February 2016 open – £4,000 limit
Virgin February 2022 open -£3,900 limit
Santander October 2021 open – £5,600 limit
Aqua Jan 2014 open ( forgot this one) – currently £1,300 ( has been reduced recently) has however been up and down think the credit limit increases were sent as physical letters.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go through and convert that list into a date order. With the credit limit increases showing as separate lines.
Include the HSBC card.
Once they are in date order, you can easily see what each lender should have known when they offered you credit – all the earlier lines.
The overdraft. How many days of the money are you in it?
Mr Jones says
I am usually in the overdraft the whole month. I did some bank switches recently and put money towards it but it has just now been eaten up by the 0% periods ending and the minimum payments increasing
Mr Jones says
Me and my wife do currently save money £400 a month ( £200 each) and she has just gone on maternity so we can’t really stop this. She also isn’t aware of the debt as I don’t want to stress her during the pregnancy and I felt I had it under control but suddenly it just seems to have become out of control which I ironically noticed when trying to complete a spreadsheet working the best way to clear the debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are your and her savings?
Do you have a mortgage, if so who is the lender and when does the fix end?
Are all these debts in your name, does your wife have any?
What about loans and car finance?
And what is your total debt at the moment?
Mr Jones says
So she had some inheritance which she has £6,000 left of. In terms of what we have saved together £2,700 is in my HSBC savings account will soon move to chase though.
We have got a mortgage thankfully quite small 52k which the fix ends in April next year with Halifax so we will just take another fix with them.
All the debts are in my name which I have listed she has a credit card with a small balance and the PCP car we had recently is in her name essentially my share of that is £200 which is what I put in the savings on her behalf instead of complicating things
Mr Jones says
I recently calculated my total which is £34,131.07.
It was to help calculate whether to snowball or avalanche when I realised how tight things are
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you actually afford the minimum payments at the moment if you stop saving?
How much equity is there is there in your house?
Mr Jones says
It would be very tight as some of the balances 0% offers are running out I looked at my budget and my outgoings are around £50 a month more than my income and at the moment with the maternity it would cause issues with the main bills if I were to stop saving because we need to make up what my wife won’t earn during statutory.
I saw a tip of yours and I normally transfer the savings at the beginning of the month but will now do that at the end so not to be so deep in my overdraft for so long.
There is around 60k equity in the house ( joint mortgage) but it is quite small so we would probably be looking to move in 4/5 years time this is why I want to get everything sorted and was hoping affordability complaints may bring down the overall problem and I can still pay a lot towards it without nearly topping out my overdraft
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So what I am going to say isn’t good news at all.
With a credit record without problems and having been saving regularly, I wouldn’t expect you to win many affordability complaints. Many may have to go to the Ombudsman and FOS will ask to see your bank statements and see the savings.
It looks to me as though your two options now are:
1) to talk to StepChange now about a debt management plan, see https://www.stepchange.org/how-we-help/debt-management-plan.aspx, where interest is frozen on all your cards and you make one affordable payment a month to them. That will affect your credit score badly but that will not affect getting a new fix from the Halifax in April as Halifax have signed the Mortgage Charter https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mortgage-charter/mortgage-charter which says “customers who are up-to-date with payments to switch to a new mortgage deal at the end of their existing fixed rate deal without another affordability check”
2) to talk urgently to a broker about the chance of you being able to remortgage with the Halifax or a different lender for a much large amount to clear all or most of your debts. I do not know if you are likely to pass the affordability checks for that… it may be easy, it may be tight, it may be impossible, You need to talk to an expert now and that is not me. If you want to explore this option you HAVE to do it now, as it going for this will mean that you have to get through to April without credit score problems which would make a remortggae much more difficult and this sounds likely to involve using your and your wife’s savings…
You may have other options – StepChange can talk to you about those.
I also think you need to be open with your wife now about this predicament. It is not fair to let her thing everything is fine. Babies do not have to be expensive but if she is unaware of the financial problems she may choose to spend much more than is essential.
Mr Jones says
You’re right not good news at all. Would it be worth trying the affordability route and just getting them to say no if it goes to FOS etc? If so do you have an email for MBNA as there doesn’t seem to be one in the list.
I think of the options I would rather try option 1. How long would the DMP affect my credit score because like I said we would probably look to move in 4-5 years?
Would another option be contacting Barclaycard and Tesco direct they are the major payments and trying to negotiate payment with them rather than a full fledge DMP?
If I enter a DMP will HSBC remove the overdraft because I am using that mainly now to pay. I know payments will be reduced under the DMP but don’t know the potential impact.
I agree I need to be open with my wife and will be but want to try and have a plan of action first or at least some form of solution as she is due within the next 2 weeks and don’t want to cause any undue stress.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Would it be worth trying the affordability route”
I can’t say a complaint won’t work. I am just saying it’s unlikely (the combination of your good credit record, your saving and the fact that your problems now seem to be caused by your partner going on maternity leave and without that the debts may be affordable) so you must not base a plan on hoping that some will work, nor delay taking action if that is needed now (I can’t tell how precarious your situation is).
Also it isn’t clear to me how much interest you have actually paid over the years. If most of the debts have been on 0% most of the teim, any refunds if you do get them may not be large.
There is an email address for MBNA in the linked page.
“How long would the DMP affect my credit score because like I said we would probably look to move in 4-5 years?”
That depends if the debts are defaulted or just marked as in a payment arrangement. And how long it will take you to clear the debts – which may depend on things like childcare costs. Defaulted debts drop off your credit record after 6 years. Payment arranagements are less damaging but mortgage lenders will still not like them and they stay on your credit record for 6 years after the debt has been cleared.
See https://debtcamel.co.uk/mortgage-recent-defaults/ and https://debtcamel.co.uk/improve-credit-score-mortgage/ and https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-mortgage-with-debts/ … that is a lot of reading but you need to read them all slowly, not look for quick fixes. Especially note the bit in the last link about how debts that you are paying normally affect affordability for a mortgage.
“Would another option be contacting Barclaycard and Tesco direct they are the major payments and trying to negotiate payment with them rather than a full fledge DMP?”
Yes, you could try this. But payment arrangements harm your credit record for longer. And interest is only frozen on those, it will take you much longer to clear the others when interest starts being added. I can’t guess if just sorting those two debts will be enough. And doiung this as a temporary measure just delays things.
“If I enter a DMP will HSBC remove the overdraft”
yes – you open a new account with a bank you don’t owe any money too and move your income and DDs for bills (not debts in the DMP) there before the DMP starts. the overdraft is just another debt in the DMP then and the interest will be stopped.
“I agree I need to be open with my wife and will be but want to try and have a plan of action first or at least some form of solution as she is due within the next 2 weeks and don’t want to cause any undue stress.”
i understand this is very bad timing for you two. And yes, it is good to have information about your options. talking to Stepchange now may clarify that option so you would know how much would be payable a month to SC.
HOWEVER I encourage you to get your wife involved in making the decision. She has been in the dark for too long and may well be very upset. This has to end and you two have to work as a partnership, not you producing a plan and telling her what it is.
I don’t know if you are hoping to delay this until after the birth. the problem with that is that it again may not feel like a good time because of really common things like hormonal swings and sleep deprivation
Mr Jones says
I’ll definitely speak to my wife and see if we’re able to avoid a DMP or alternative via changing the way we save etc. I think there is a possibility to do it without effecting maternity but like you said she needs to be part of the decision process. It could keep me in my overdraft a little longer but its the lesser of the evils. I used a spreadsheet calculation and if we go all in it could be cleared by mid 2025
I will try the affordability route and see what comes of that aswell even it takes something off or nothing they can always just say no!
Thank you Sara.