Have you had a catalogue, credit card or store card where your credit limit was too high? So high that the monthly repayments were hard to manage and you got into more debt?
Many people were originally given an OK limit, but the lender kept increasing them.
You may have a good complaint that the lender was irresponsible in allowing you to borrow so much that the debt was unaffordable.
This article explains how to complain and ask for a refund of the interest you paid
Contents
What is “affordability”?
The following is my summary of the regulator’s rules:
- a lender must check if credit is affordable when you apply for it. A mortgage lender will ask for bank statements, but a catalogue offering a £200 credit limit doesn’t have to go into so much detail;
- a lender should also make new checks when deciding to increase a credit limit;
- credit isn’t affordable if paying it leaves you short of money for your bills,everyday expenses, and your other debts;
- if you have to borrow more most months, this would not be affordable. This could be borrowing on the same account – making a credit card repayment but then using the credit card to pay for food so the balance never drops is “borrowing more”;
- you have to be able to repay the balance within a reasonable period of time. Paying the minimum amount is OK for a short while, but not for a prolonged period.
How to complain
Good reasons to complain
If the lender could see any of these on your credit record, they should probably have declined your original application:
- recent credit record problems: defaults, missed payments, or arrangements to pay, mortgage arrears, payday loans;
- you already had a different credit card with the same lender where you were only making minimum payments and were using it for essentials like food and petrol. If you were given two credit or catalogue accounts by the same lender, often the second one should never have been given.
- other credit cards where you were near your limit and persistent overdraft usage. Here is an Ombudsman decision saying Zopa should not have given quite a low initial limit in this situation;
- a level of borrowing that looks too high in relation to your income.
Your credit limit should not later have been increased unless you could afford it. In addition to the points above, the following should have also warned the lender you were in difficulty already:
- making minimum payments for a long while;
- using a lot of your limit for a long period;
- a lot of gambling showing on the account statement;
- recent missed payments or an arrangement to pay on this account;
- your overall level of debt on your credit record has gone up a lot.
You don’t need all the details to complain
When your lender increased your credit limit, you don’t need the exact date. If all you can say is “you increased my credit limit several times” that is fine. You don’t need to ask for copies of all your statements – you would get a ton of paper!
But getting your credit record can help. You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018, but take a copy of your current credit record as soon as you complain (get your free TransUnion statutory credit report). That will show what the pre-2018 problems were that the lender should have spotted.
Template to complain & the email address to use
The best way to complain is by email. It’s free, instant and you have a record of what you sent and when. Here is a list of credit card and catalogue email addresses to use.
In the suggestions below, I’ve invented some examples for the bits in italics in brackets. Change/delete these to tell your story.
I want to complain about irresponsible lending by you for my Barclaycard account number 987654/444. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
Then say they should never have given you the account:
You should never have allowed me to open an account with such a large credit limit. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recent missed payments to a credit card and a default only two months before on a loan.
Or say that they should not have increased your credit limit:
You should never have increased my credit limit in 2015. At that time I had only made minimum payments on this credit card for a long while and/or I was using a very high level of my credit limit.
If you had properly checked my credit record before increasing my limit, you would have seen that in the two years since my account with you was opened, I had got additional late payment markers and defaults and/or taken out a lot of other credit. This should have warned you I was struggling with my finances and it was not responsible to lend me more. By increasing my credit limit you made my financial position worse. Instead you should have offered me forbearance by freezing the interest on the card.
I do not know the exact months of these credit limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me the dates and amounts.
If the lender should already have known you had problems with your account, mention these
You should also have realised that I was having difficulty because:
of the late payment charges you added to my account
of the gambling transactions showing on my card statement
I had missed two payments to you the year before in 2017
I had already asked you on the phone if it was possible to stop adding interest for a while.
End with asking for a refund:
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges from the point the account was opened
OR
I would like you to refund me all the interest I paid and any late payment charges after you increased my credit limit in 2018.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from credit records after this point.
I understand that if I take this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, 8% simple interest is usually added to a cash refund.
Points to think about
Timing
These complaints can be made if your account is still open, or if it is closed and settled, or if it is with a debt collector (NB the complaint goes to the original lender, not the debt collector.)
You can complain if you already have a CCJ for the debt. Add a sentence to the template saying you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
If you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then ask in the comments below, as this can be complicated.
Old accounts
The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) can only go back to April 2007, when the law changed to allow these complaints.
Many lenders will reject complaints about something that was more than 6 years ago and say the ombudsman won’t look at them. But FOS will often look at old problems if you have only found out in the last three years that you can make the complaint.
If your account was opened in 2015 but the lender increased your limit in 2018 and 2019, then the two limit increases are within the last 6 years and can definitely be looked at.
However, complaints about things that happened more than 6 years ago may be hard for you to produce much evidence for. But if you feel you have a strong older case and you have some evidence, then take it to the Ombudsman and let them decide!
An alternative approach for old accounts
If your account was opened a long while ago and you defaulted and still owe a balance, perhaps in a DMP, think about asking the debt collector to produce the Consumer Credit Act agreement for the account.
If the current creditor can’t produce a proper copy of the agreement, the debt cannot be enforced in court and you can simply stop paying anything to it. This applies to all credit cards, store cards and catalogues.
It may be that the balance on the account is larger than any refund you might get. In which case if the CCA agreement cannot be produced, you would be better off.
Is a refund what you really need?
This depends how large your current financial problems are.
Complaining about newish debt will often only get the interest removed – you still have to repay what you borrowed. Don’t spend months arguing with lenders and going to the ombudsman if you will still be in a mess even if you win.
So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you are thinking about affordability complaints but you would like to know what your other debt options are.
Poor reasons to complain
You can’t complain just because the interest rate was high or because you have paid them a fortune over the years.
A poor credit score on its own isn’t a reason why you shouldn’t have been given an account. But if your credit score was poor because you were having a lot of problems with your existing debt, the account should have been refused.
You won’t win an affordability complaint if something unexpected went wrong later in your life. If you had been managing a credit card fine for years but then you lost your job or separated from your partner and you defaulted, this isn’t the lender’s fault.
Don’t be put off by a rejection or a poor offer
Lenders often reject good cases
If a lender rejects your complaint or offers a low “goodwill” gesture, don’t be fobbed off – they want you to give up.
In particular, if the lender says you had made all the payments to them on time so they had no reason to think you had problems, you can ignore this. Or if the lender dismisses your complaint as the account was opened over 6 years ago.
When you have a Final Response from the lender – or after 8 weeks if you haven’t had a Final Response – send your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Don’t delay doing this!
Is a “partial uphold” good enough?
If the lender says they should not have increased your credit limit in June 2018 when your limit was increased and they will give you a refund of interest for balances over the previous limit, that may sound good. It is sometimes called a partial uphold or a partial refund or proportionate interest.
But often the amount of money refunded in this situation is a lot less than you might expect. So tell the lender you want to consider their offer but need to know how large the refund will be.
Often you were already in a difficult financial situation at that point, with cards close to maxed out, being used for everyday essentials and only paying the minimums. At that point the lender should have stepped in and offered to help you by freezing all interest. That is why a partial refund is often not good enough, you should have all the interest refunded from that point.
How to send a case to FOS
Send FOS a complaint using their online form. You can use bits of what you put in your complaint to the lender. If the lender has rejected your complaint or given a poor offer, say why you think this wrong.
The FOS form at the end asks you to add supporting documents. Don’t worry if you don’t have A copy of your credit or finance agreement – lots of people don’t and the lender will supply a copy to FOS if FOS asks for it. Don’t delay sending a complaint to FOS while you try to get this from the lender.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems, send FOS a copy of it. If you have kept some, send the oldest one you have, otherwise send the current one. Also get your bank statements if they will support your complaint and send those to FOS too.
FOS is a friendly service but not fast. Just use normal English, not legal terms. Using a claims company or a solicitor doesn’t help or speed this up.
Ask questions below!
There are hundreds of comments from readers who are using this template. It’s a good place to see how these complaints often go and to ask any questions.
FAQs about Affordability claims
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Could a Debt Relief order help you?
Nicholas says
Hi Sara.
Thank you so much for this incredible website. I just wanted to ask if this section covers Paypal credit which also has a habit of increasing amounts.
If so do you know of any contact details?
Many Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it does.
try ppelce@paypal.co.uk
Natalie says
Hello Nicholas,
Have you had any joy with this?
Sara- thank you so much for all this info.
I sent my email to Paypal last Wednesday and they have already come back to me to say they disagree with my argument however have offered me a goodwill gesture of clearing the balance on my PayPal credit account which is almost £190.
This would be a huge help of course, however do you think I should take it further?
They opened my account at £400 , I was very much lending wherever I possibly could leading up to this to fund a house move, break up etc etc, I was in a fairly new job and had circa £12,000 of debt already racking up and it was actually me who decided to eventually reduce my credit limit to £200 due to the worry of it being unaffordable. They have said in their reply that they carried out all the suitable checks etc and that I had stated I had £8000 disposable income after my monthly expenses had been paid, I have absolutely no idea where they got this from as I was on near enough minimum wage at the time and over half of my wage went on my rent alone before bills and living.
Rather confusing reply but I guess they do this on the hope that we see the goodwill gesture and settle for it?
Thank you !
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you know how much interest you have paid them over the years?
£400 is a pretty low credit limit.
Natalie says
I’m not certain but could definitely find out, funnily enough, this is one of many affordability complaints I’ve sent to my credit lender thanks to your help and this was the first one I’ve had come back so thought I would ask your advice , I’m tempted to go for the offer as it does seem fair. Thank you 😊
Nes says
Hi Sara,
I just wanted to share with you and other visitors on this site. That i have successfully had my irresponsible lending complaint with NewDay upheld.
I am getting over £8k back in interest most of it will go towards clearing the balances on my cards with a small amount due as a cash refund.. It took over 14 weeks to reach this stage but finally it has happened. They will also remove any negative markers from my credit file.
NewDay are very slow and their communication is awful. However i got the desired outcome in the end.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh well done! Which cards were these?
Nes says
Hi, the cards are Aqua, Fluid and an Amazon card which was rebranded to Pulse
Natalie says
Absolutely well done, can I ask if you needed to take them to FOS? I have just put a complaint in 2 weeks ago and am well aware that this could take a long time. I have 4 cards under the name of Newday all maxed out.
MH says
Hi Natalie
I submitted mine with NewDay back in Feb/Mar. They will undoubtedly take the full 8 weeks or even longer to respond. They typically write to you 6-7 weeks in saying they need more time. Don’t wait a minute longer than 8 weeks and send to the FOS online. Mine are still with the FOS (aqua, fluid) and have been told I should have a resolution in the next 2 weeks.
Good luck!
Nes says
Hi Natalie,
I did have to take them to the FOS but they upheld my complaint in full. So it turned out very well, just one thing to bear in mind NewDay are terrible when it comes to communication.
All the best with your complaint.
Nes
NATALIE says
Thanks everyone, still nothing from Newday other than standard texts to say we are looking into it …. they have until the 25.08.23 before I can send to the FOS so still a little while yet. I did some digging on when I took the cards out, the first 3 I took out within 10 months of each other in 2018, and then 1 more in 2020. Fingers crossed…..
Tracy says
Good morning
I am in the process of filling in a R40 for my Very redress that I received. My question is do they automatically deduct the 20% tax from the simple interest as their breakdown is not very clear.
Standard interest: 7480.18
Buy now pay later interest: 4470.74
Admin charges: 300
8% simple interest: 4494.45
Im a basic rate tax payer but the tax year in question was 21/22 and my gross income for the year was 7892 as I was unemployed for 6 months. Given that my personal allowance is 12500 would I get it all back?
Thankyou in anticipation
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you need to ask them if they have deducted interest – most lender do but it looks as though they may not have. If they haven’t, then there is nothing to recalim.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
PS that was a large win!
tracy sowerby says
Ha yes it was quite a surprise. The majority paid off my balance and I had a nice little sum to pay off other debt. Im now debt free because of you and your site, so a big thankyou to you and your team.
Gemma W says
Hi Tracy
Sorry to jump on your thread… just wondering as I’m waiting on Very getting back to me, what was your credit limit, how did they break down what they owed you?
Many thanks
MH says
Just when I thought NewDay (Aqua credit card) couldn’t be any worse! They have agreed that my aqua card should be refunded however have closed my account. I have today got a letter with a default for a remaining balance of £0.01.
I haven’t said I’ll accept the Aqua redress yet because I have a joint complaint as they gave me a Fluid card as a second credit card however this has gone to an ombudsman as the adjudicator didn’t agree that I shouldn’t have been given a second card even though I made large transactions for gambling sites from the aqua card and large money transfers to my current account so they knew how I handled/managed that first card. I have gone back and put this to the adjudicator. I don’t think the stupid default will stand if they have agreed that the card was unaffordable/ irresponsible but it’s just something I could do without contesting. They are such a ridiculous company
F says
Hi Sara!
Hope you’re well! I have some good news
Barclayscard have responded with a refund amount of £18.94 due to an internal error some of the interest/fee’s applied should have not been charged
It says if this had an impact on your credit reference agency records, we’ll make sure they’re corrected.
I’m happy with the acknowledgement and the refund it was only a due total of £200 when it went into the default, my question is would this mean the default is going to be removed off my records?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know – they may just delete the default as the simplest thing to do. Or they may look at the account in detail and decide whether you would have defaulted even if they had not charged you this amount.
Helen says
Hi I’ve sent an affordability complaint to Capital One (Very) credit card using the email address complaintsresolution@capitalone.com about 2 weeks ago but just a little concerned as I never got an automated reply. I was expecting one saying they had at least received my complaint and then their current timescales etc. Has anyone else used this email recently and/or how long do you think I need to wait for any kind of reply before chasing? Thank you
Helen says
If anyone else needs to know, the email address is actually complaintsresolutionuk@capitalone.com
Claire says
Hello Sara could you advise me please.
I have complained to Aqua about my credit card as they increased my limit fro. £500 to 2700 over the years knowing I was missing payments and getting into debt.
I have received a letter today tell me they agree to refund me about £1000 off the account balance which is £2700 at the moment.
I’ve just logged onto my account and the refund has been deducted and my account has been closed…
I’ve not even accepted this refund and I am not happy with the outcome.
What steps should I do next?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just send this to the Ombudsman – be clear about why you are not accepting it – do you think the refund should have started earlier? or been a “full refund” not a partial refund as Aqua should have seen you were struggling financially at that point? Or both?
Chloe says
I’ve had 4 complaints allocated to adjudicators this week. All separate credit card, 2 logged in February, one in April and one in May. Hopefully a sign that things are speeding up at FOS. Just thought it may be useful to know for those waiting.
Mike says
Hi Sara,
The adjudicator has asked why taking out cash in the credit showed that New Day were irresponsible for in reasoning my limit?
What shall I say? I think it’s because I was already at the credit limit of a number of credit cards, I would take cash out and then pay it back in trying to make at least the minimum payment and also why would I be taking cash out on a card with such high chargers.
Is there anything else I should say? I really don’t want to get this wrong
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Taking cash out on a card is ok on the odd occasion. But done often it is usually a sign of big financial problems. Sometimes a gambling habit or sometimes just getting the money to make the minimum payment / making the minimum payment and then taking that money out.
Do you know how many times you took cash out?
Problem gambling doesn’t go against you – it is something that a lender has to look out for.
If you had reported it to New Day that would then be a significant help to your case, and in a few rare cases people have managed to get back more than the interest where they can show the lender had been told about the problem gambling. But not telling a lender is simply normal, not a negative.
Chloe says
Hi Sara and all,
I just wanted to share a good news story.
February this year after reading your website I submitted a number of claims.
Capital One had provided me 2 credits
Card 1 in 2016 limit 1000
Card 2 in 2018 limit 200
When I complained they agreed card 2 should not have been given. Although the limit was only 200 the redress I received was 720 which was very welcomed.
Card 1 was refused so I took to it to FOS. The adjudicator agreed to look into it after I explained that I had no idea about unaffordable and irresponsible lending until I found your sight.
Today the adjudicator has written advising they find in my favour and capital one should never have provided the card.
Card 2 even though a credit limit was low (200) the redress of 720 is well appreciated. I’m expecting the refund of card 1 to be a little higher.
I’m very grateful for all the insight and advice you provide and I hope my story gives others some hope.
Helen says
Hi, great to hear your good news with Capital One! Do you mind me asking what email address you used for them please? I’ve written to them using complaintsresolutions@capitalone.com but I don’t even know if they’ve received it yet and getting a bit worried. Thanks!
Danii says
Hi,
I had no documents so did available so have done SARS requests as most of my accounts were old. I did a SARs and complaint at same time for Barclaycard. They haven’t sent the SARS info but bArclaycard have contacted me by phone and explained that the last limit raise was in 2012 which is over the 6 years then it was decreased in 2018 – I’m not sure yet if that was my request or they just did it. But they said I have no claim as 2018 is more than 3 years ago and if I had a complaint I should have made it then. Is this right? – I obviously didn’t know I could complain about this at that stage. I mentioned that to the guy who just said it doesn’t matter that you didn’t know you could have made a complaint about anything but didn’t.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So Barclaycard have rejected your complaint?
In 2018 the limit was reduced – do you think it was cur to a sensible level or has the reduced limit proved unaffordable?
Danii says
Hi Sara,
I think it was likely reduced at my request as I suspect this was around the time I paid the card off and closed the account. I’ll get confirmation i guess when they send the SARS request details. I was only able to pay off everything as I received PPI repayments and some inheritance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can send this to the Ombudsman, FOS will look at any problems in the last 6 years but they can go back further if you have olnl;y found out in the last 3 years that you have a cause to complain.
Barclaycard seem to be suggesting that 3 year clock started in 2018 when you closed the account. But from what you have said, you were closing it because you had inherited money – that means you much have thought it was expensive, but it doesn’t mean that you considered it unaffordable. Nor, at that point, did you have any idea that Barclcard had a partial responsibility for your situation as they should have made sure the limit set in 2012 was affordable, so you had no reason to make claim then so the 3 year clock did not start.
Having said that, it may be difficult to show what was affordable in 2012 unless you have kept bank statements? or credit reports? or other information for that time?
Danii says
Hi Sara,
Thanks for reply. I have had all of my bank statements sent to me for my main account dating back to 2009 . So I have those to produce as evidence. I will send to the FOS once I’ve received everything from Barclaycard.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is very good news.
Danii says
Hi Sara, I now have the SARS from barclaycard. It is how I remembered that I reduced the limit from 9000 to 2500 after receiving inheritance. I then ran it up again to the limit again Then paid it off. And closed it. The statements remind me I was in a bit of a cycle of paying it off (by taking a loan) and running up again. The paperwork does not contain any letters only statements – 400 pages. So there is no proof that the credit limit decrease was at my request – rather than what barclaycard are suggesting that they imposed it and I should have known then it meant I could complain. Do I need to analyse all of the statements and pull out the relevant points for the ombudsman’s or can I just send them the whole file with my complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At this point I would just put this to one side. You have it there if it is needed. It would be a lot of work to go through it now. until you know what you are looking for.
When you are told an adjudicator has been assigned, you can tell them you have this SAR information if they need any of it.
Danii says
Thank you! I will start the complaint off and I have it saved for if they need it.
AL says
Hello Sara, I’ve complained to barclays in relation to an old loan and barclaycard. I didn’t have statements this far back so requested a SAR. This shows all the transactions from my bank account at the time. Will this be sufficient as evidence should I get asked for bank statements by an adjudicator?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes that should be fine
Aky says
Hi mate which email did you use to complain to barcley as I can’t find one
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Article above has a link to a page of email addresses to use
cindy says
Hi,
Any advice would be great.
I opened my card in 2016 and it was 1500 limit, never increased.
In 2018 I asked for help as I had a break up and only one income coming in, they gave me 3 months of no interest.
I’ve put in a complaint and they’ve rejected saying I should’ve known in 2018 and I had 3 years from them.
Is it worth going to the ombudsman?
Anyone else had anything similar?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the limit was ok before your break up? And the real problem is they didn’t continue to freeze interest in 2018? What happened when the three months were up – did it just revert to charging interest, did they suggest you took debt advice, did you think that was all the help they would offer?
Cindy says
The limit was never really okay but when I didn’t have the extra income coming in it forced me to ask them for help because I drowning more than ever.
After the 3 months were up they started to charge interest again. I asked for 6 months no interest they said they couldn’t do it but would give me 3 so I just took it as I was with anything. Because they refused 6 months I thought that’s all they could was 3.
I didn’t seek any debt help and continued to have the card until I finally paid it off in 2020z
Joelle says
Hi Sara
I have noticed some discrepancies with my Barclaycard.
Agreement was 12th of month for direct debits.
I’ve looked at all emails received from b/c to notify me of amount and date to be taken – there are loads of months missing and I never deleted , they were letting me know just 3 days before the amount and date to be taken. The dates were all over the place.
Dates range from 9th to 17th of the month.
I also paid min amount for many years and card limit increased drastically to 16k even though they could see that I was never paying off. I then paid large amount off but not all . With direct debit I am guessing they took min amount as there was no recommended payment to decrease amount. I called to see if they would freeze interest for a while but they wanted me to agree to a payment plan for 4 years which I didn’t go ahead with however now checking I have found the interest is increasing at a high rate and my debt is getting bigger all due to interest as they suspended my card in March 21. I have never missed a payment but can see clearly what’s happening.
Unsure if I should just write to Barclaycard with complaint or also write to my bank due to the dates payment taken and ask for refund (consumer rights of a direct debit).
Would really appreciate some guidance.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When you paid a large amount off, where did that money come from?
How large is your current balance? Do you have other debts as well or are you behind with any bills?
The 4 year payment plan – this was probably because you were in “persistent credit card debt”. As you didn’t agree to it, they had no option but to suspend the card. What was the interest rate on this plan? Did you think the repayments were unaffordable?
Joelle says
Hi Sara
It was a loan so Peter paying Paul .
Current balance around 10,200
Still have 4 months to pay on loan and small amount on another credit card.
Bc have never been very forthcoming with their correspondence. Had card since I was 18 now 64 . Okay so they suspend the card but actually put you into more money owing. Interest is well over 20% now . Looked at past years and the interest is working out double what is actually owed.
They do not know my incomings but never asked. I guess it’s because I pay regardless the worse part is I never know when money is coming out unlike my mortgage and other bills. I looked up the consumer rights for direct debits and they have completely gone against it in many ways.
Is it affordable ? Definitely not as I sadly presently have a health issue so not so much money coming in and I really need to nip this in the bud as getting out of hand with interest. Not burying my head in sand just need to get this sorted.
Thanks again for your time on this really appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So four rather different points.
The dates of the direct debits
A varying DD date does sound very odd – some variation around weekends and bank holidays is normal but not that much. However I think you may find it really hard to argue that you have lost much money because of this. Under the direct debit guarantee, you can ask for a refund if an incorrect amount was taken or you were not given sufficient notice. But it sounds as though you think the amounts were correct and you were informed beforehand. I have never heard of the DD guarantee being used to get refunds of a lot of payments from a bank simply because the dates were a bit out.
It isn’t clear to me that it is worth arguing about this date issue.
Affordability complaint about limit increases
I think you should send in a complaint about credit card affordability. Kick this off now, do not delay. This may take some time to go through and you may well need to send it to the Ombudsman
Your financial situation
You can’t afford to pay this balance and need to get interest stopped. This is because of your health problems now. If this is your only problem debt than you should ask Barclaycard now for a payment arrangement and for interest to be frozen. Also ask for a refund of the interest added since your card was suspended – at that point they knew enough for it to be clear you were in financial difficulty and so they should not still be adding interest.
If you have other debt problems then I strongly suggest that you talk to StepChange about a debt management plan for all your debts. See https://www.stepchange.org/how-we-help/debt-management-plan.aspx. You can still carry on with affordability complaints and these will reduce the time to complete your DMP considerably. But a DMP gets you into a safe financial space while these go through.
Other affordability complaints
You may also have other affordability complaints eg about the loan to clear some of your credit card. or an overdraft. Think of all of these, don’t just go for the biggest problem. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/tag/refunds/ for other articles that may be relevant.
Your mortgage
When does your mortgage fix end? Who is your lender?
Joelle says
Thank you Sara.
Re direct debit dates under the consumer rights it states .
Allows payers an immediate refund where errors include:
Taking payments on a date other than the due date.
Taking payments at a different frequency than that agreed.
Taking a payment of a different amount than agreed or notified.
Due to the vast array of dates that they took payment and me actually not receiving monthly correspondence from them. I have evidence of the dates that they bothered to send me anything so I wasn’t always notified. Eg 6th sep 22 for payment to come out 9th sep 22 they are supposed to give more notice. I then have heard nothing until March 23. Apologies, I may not have made myself clear but my point was that I wasn’t always made aware of the amounts or when they were taking payment.
Regarding affordability how long should I give them to respond and how many emails before I take to ombudsman if not happy with outcome ? Is there a process to follow ?
You have an excellent point regarding when they suspended the card and the interest accrued since then and yes I will look at the bigger picture.
Is there a reasoning regarding asking about my mortgage as this is separate ? Please confirm if this could help my case .
Thank you so much for your help will act promptly on this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You do not actually have concrete evidence that they didn’t send you something on the missing months – having kept most of the emails is not a sign that the missing one were either not delivered or you accidentally deleted them or they were incorrectly put into spam. Barclaycard are likely to point out that your monthly statements were accurate and showed the amounts to be taken.
The DD guarantee works well when you make a pretty prompt complaint. I have never seen it used to try to reclaim large amounts of money going back a long while because the dates or the notification were wrong when you do not seem to be disputing the amounts. If your bank did refund these to you (which I doubt is likely) then Barclaycard would just add the amounts immediately onto your current credit card balance. Getting a chargeback through the DD system does NOT affect the underlying debt… I can’t see this will gain you anything at all except to confuse and complicate your other issues.
Affordability – the article above describes the process. Barclaycard have 8 weeks to respond. I wouldn’t bother to argue with any rejection or poor offer – just send it to the Ombudsman.
Mortgage – I was wondering if you were concerned that a DMP will affect your mortgage? If you can tell me who the lender is and when the fix ends I can be more specific.
Joelle says
Ok fair enough it’s just I personally know someone who had same as me regarding dates and he managed to get some money back as it was classed as an error. I had asked for all paperwork and oddly enough these months were missing as well. They said it was because I had no transactions but then contradicts by sending some when I still had no transactions as card was suspended just their interest so makes no sense at all.
Mortgage agreement was with Mortgage express who then passed over to Roselite. Ends sep 25 . DMP does this affect credit rating ? Not sure this would be necessary as I have in hand. I had paid one card off and on the way to paying other one off its just the bc. Was trying to be debt free by 65 so a bit behind schedule.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes a DMP does affect your credit rating.
Debbie says
Hi Sara
I have just come across your site. Having no understanding of affordability checks. My bank is Barclays.
I had a Barclaycard. Originally the limit was £300. To get me back on course for my credit file. This amount I could manage, I was and still on benefits and because of mental health, for which I was and still am on medication, unable to work.
Over a period of time, my limit was increased to £7000. I had been gambling, and, when it all became too much, I felt suicidal, I called them up, out of desperation.They froze my card, and, I entered a payment plan. They continue to contact me every year, to review my payment plan. I continued to explain about my mental health!
Sadly, my mum had to go to a nursing home 18months ago, and very sadly, she passed away in March this year. I am emotionally and mentally struggling enormously, I am receiving counselling for my mental health. Today I received a letter, from Barclaycard. For the ‘let’s review your payment plan’
I feel this is all a bit complicated for me.
Do I have a case for the lack of affordability check? The gambling transactions?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Had you used the credit card for any gambling?
Do you remember roughly when the payment plan was set up?
Do you have other debts as well as this?
A limit of 7000 if you are on benefits is extremely large…
Debbie says
Hi Sara, thank you for your response.
Yes I did use the card for gambling transactions. Then a win would cover my payments. Until it became too much.
I sought help, and, have not gambled since then.
I do not have any other debt, as I managed to clear what I had, with help from my family.
I entered into the payment plan, approximately July 2018.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then this seems like a good affordability complaint. You could adapt the template in the article above to say they should not have increased your credit limit because of the gambling visible on the card statement.
However Barclaycard may say the limit rises are all over 6 years ago and you should have complained within the 6 years or within 3 years from the time your payment plan started. If they do, you can send the case to the Financial Ombudsman arguing that you have only very recently become aware that a credit card lender should have assessed whether limit increases were affordable for you. Back in 2018 you knew you were in major difficulty but thought the fault was all your own because of your gambling. As you did not realise then that Barclaycard were partially responsible for raising the limit to high, you could not make a complaint at that point.
An alternative approach is to ask Barclaycard to simply write off the debt, because of your prolonged health problems. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/less-common/write-off/. to do this you will probably need to get your doctor to complete a DMHEF form.
The question is which to try first…
Because of the time limit issues for the affordability complaint, I suggest you get that started now. If Barclaycard reject it, send the complaint to the ombudsman. And at that point go to your local Citizens Advice and ask for their help in asking Barclaycard to write off the debt.
Debbie says
Hi Sara
I can not thank you enough for your help. You have been an absolute blessing to me. I felt so lost in the woods, and, I shall definitely try the affordability avenue first.
You say in the article above, am sorry for my not understanding, I have had a look at it, do you mean the one about refunds? Is that what I am asking for? As in, I am just following the guidance in the ‘template’ and then, include what you have also advised? Would I email it (which I do not have the details for? or send it to the priority team that have sent me this letter to review my payment plan?? Sorry if I am asking obvious questions and thank you again Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As in, I am just following the guidance in the ‘template’ and then, include what you have also advised?
yes – adapt it by adding the point that they should not have increased your credit limit because of the gambling visible on the card statement.
Would I email it (which I do not have the details for? or send it to the priority team that have sent me this letter to review my payment plan?
There is a link with email addresses for bank complaints in the article above.
use AFFORDABILITY COMPLAINT as the email title
I suggest in yourc ase you also copy the priority team asking you to review your payments plan on the complaint email.
If this seem too difficult, go to your local Citizens Advice and they can help you with it.
Debbie says
Thank you so so much Sara for everything. I shall definitely update you on how things are going. I absolutely appreciate everything and all your help. I personally am extremely grateful I discovered you and your website.
Debbie says
Hi Sara as advised I followed the link, and forwarded the email, AFFORDABILITY COMPLAINT, on Monday 10th July 2023. To date, I have not received a response of any kind, is this normal? I would have expected an acknowledgment but am unsure of this process, regarding Barclays (BARCLAYCARD) As always, thank you so much for everything you do, helping and advising so many.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would wait another week and then phone or message to check it has been received.
Mike says
Sara,
Is there a way to work out what the redress will be?
Is it a matter of adding up all interest and charges paid and then adding 8%?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No.
Well adding up the interest and charges is a starting point, but that assumes your complaint is upheld in full. Card and catalogue claims can be a lot more complicated.
The 8% interest is 8% per year, not a single lump of 8%. So it depends when the amount being refunded was paid, but also whether you still owed a balance at that point, as the 8% is usually only paid when a reworking of your account less some interest and charges would have taken you back into the black.
John says
Hi sara was wondering if you could help i have put in a complaint with new day for irresponsible lending , i have had numerous letter saying sorry they have not yet resolved my complaint then on the 8th week a letter came through the post saying they are still investigating and are not in a position to fully resolve this. although they have made good progress, they want to make sure they have addressed all my concerns before they provide a final outcome , and it has been 8 weeks since you contacted so you may decide to contact FOS without waiting for a response and they enlosed a letter with information about how to contact FOS , however they said they want me to give them there opportunity to complete there review , and they will continue there investigation and contact with full details and findings and confirm proposed outcome as soon as possible,
Now is this something they send out to everyone one when they investigating a complaint , or is this a good sign do i refer to the FOS or wait for a response ?
i have credit of 7200 and has been increase numerous times over the years and i only have been making the minimum payments yet still they increased my limit from 5000 to 7200 in 2018
Im currently in a arrangment plan with them
Could you advise please
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think they send it to everyone. Probably no one has looked at your case – this isn’t good news or bad news, it is simply no news.
I suggest you send it to the ombudsman. You easily wait 2,3,4 more weeks and then not get a reasonable offer.
John says
Ok thank you , i thought maybe it might be a good sign. Thank you for the advice do think i have a good case i have been struglling financially and the interest a month was between 150 and 200 and i would be paying between 230-270 i was left to borrow to cover and they continued to increase my credit limit even know it was maxed out and i was making minumum payments i have never missed a payment but im now in a arrangment for last couple of months
Mike says
Hi all!
Just looking for a bit of advise as I’m well and truly in over my head at the moment! I took out a credit card with amazon new day a few years ago and had a credit limit of £500. They soon increased this to £2100 and I went on a bit of a spending spree. I soon realised the payments were not affordable and before I knew it I had maxed out my credit limit and could not meet the minimum payment demands. New Day then issued me with a default notice and have since sold my account to Cabot financial who send me letter and call me quite frequently. Is there any way I can complain to Cabot/fos about this as I simply cannot afford to pay off the debt and the default has really killed my credit score.
Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago was “quite a few years ago”?
Mike says
It was around 4 years ago but I didn’t default on the card until around a year and a half ago and then it was transferred over to Cabot about 6 months ago
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok then you complain to Newday (not Cabot) that they should not have increased your credit limit over the initial 500.
You can also offer to pay Cabot a low affordable amount to stop them contacting while your complaint goes through. This could take some time if it has to go to the Ombudsman, as Newday reject a lot of good cases.
Mike says
Thanks for this info! On my credit score it shows a default with Cabot financial. If the ombudsman rules in my favour will I still end up having to pay the £1600 arrears that’s on the account/will I have the default removed?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If your complaint is upheld by Newday or at the Ombudsman, Newday will have to sort out the Cabot account and credit record.
Chloe says
Hi Sara,
The adjudicator has stated that they don’t think Very acted unfairly.
However, can I not argue that they reduced my credit limit without telling me why but continued to let me use the account and charge me interest.
Surely if them reducing it was because they thought I couldn’t afford the limit they should’ve done more?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did they reduce it to a lower amount than you had recently used?
Is the adjudicator saying Very made all the necessary checks? Or that if they had made the checks they would have seen that the higher amount was affordable?
Chloe says
They have said;
Prior to approving the initial limit on this account Shop Direct completed a check of your credit report. The credit report show all of your existing credit commitments were up to date and had been for almost all of the previous two years. The report also indicated you had no current or prior CCJ’s, no other existing mail order accounts and there were no new credit searches in the previous 3 months.
Given the information obtained from your credit report, I don’t think there was any indication that this limit was likely to have been unaffordable.
– That’s for account 1.
They’ve then said for account 2 (which was opened up a month after I closed account 1)
The credit report checks carried out during this application show all of your existing credit commitments were still up to date and had been for the previous two years. And there was still no evidence of any adverse information being reported including defaults and CCJ’s.
Shop Direct would’ve also had access to the account information available from your existing account which at the time had no outstanding balance.
Looking at the account history, I can see your limit remained at £1,000 for around 3 months before it was reduced to £675 and was then subsequently reduced further after this point. And again, all payments were kept up to date on this account with no arrears being recorded. The account was paid in full in July 2020 and wasn’t used again. The account was then closed in June 2021.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is there anything there that you disagree with? or anything that you think has been missed out?
Chloe says
Yes but I’m not sure how valid or relevant this will be;?
During 2016 before the first account was opened had taken out 22 Payday loans, this would have evident on my credit report. This should have shown that I was overly reliant on using credit and borrowing.
By July 2018 when the second account was open my credit commitments had increased and I was owing more to high cost credit cards. Paying the minimum or near the minimum amount and also the cash facility on them which again would’ve been an indication that I was struggling to manage my finances.
adjudicator has stated, when referring to the 1st account, the credit checks showed ‘existing credit commitments were up to date for almost all of the previous two years” – ‘Almost’ indicates that they were not fully up to date and if considered with the other information stated about then again this should have been an indication that further credit was going to make my finances even more unmanageable.
The 2nd Account; Credit limit decreased were as follows; £625.00 £675.00 £1,000 – If Very had decreased the limit because they thought I could not afford it, then they should have frozen the interest they were charging me. I was not contacted about the decreases and only found out when I logged on and saw the decreases.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when was the first account opened?
Chloe says
2016 and second one 2018
Sara (Debt Camel) says
in that case 22 payday loans in 2016 before the card was opened that year are VERY relevant. Go back and argue the account should never have been opened and you should have a refund of all the interest on it.
For the second account. argue that Very should have seen your significantly increased debt and that you were often taking cash on a card which is a signof finacial difficulty.
Ask for this to go to an ombudsman if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind.
Chloe says
Thank you very much. Will keep you posted.
Colin says
Hi Sara I what I believe to be a decent resolution from vanquis. They have agreed to..
Rework the account removing all interest, fees, charges and insurances (not already
refunded) that have been applied to balances above £500.
If the rework results in a credit balance, this should be refunded to Mr H along
with 8% simple interest per year* calculated from the date of each overpayment to
the date of settlement. Vanquis should also remove all adverse information recorded
after 9 March 2015 regarding this account from Mr H’s credit file.
Or, if after the rework the outstanding balance still exceeds £500 Vanquis should
arrange an affordable repayment plan with Mr H for the remaining amount.
Once Mr H has cleared the outstanding balance, any adverse information
recorded after 9 March 2015 in relation to the account should be removed from their credit file.
I still have a balance of 2,067
Just wondered what it meant in simpler terms for me? It was 2015 they gave me the huge jump from 500 to 2,500 which I have been trying to pay off to date.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though this will be refund of quite a lot, but I can’t make any guess as it depends how much you were over the 500 each month.
Colin says
Thanks I will look into it can a request statements after they already agreed to put this plan in place? Seems I can only see as far back as a couple of years but I can say for certain I have been nearly the limit since around the time they gave the increase as I paid off my wedding with it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you can just wait until Vanquis comes up with a number. Then see if you feel it’s too low.
It’s going to be very complicated for you to work out from the statements and this may not be necessary.
Dani says
Hi Sara,
I have three defaults, all within 6 months of each other from 2019.
I had a year old Aqua card that I opened when I was 18 and was already missing payments on when in 2018 I was shopping in Debenhams and offered a store card on a £10 of a £100 shop at sign up. The sales assistant was very pushy that it was a good idea and a good deal. I was 19 and naive at the time and thought it was a points/reward card. I didn’t understand it was a store card. Did not receive any emails about repayments or defaults, although I continued to receive store card offers from Debenhams. I would have moved to university two weeks later (which the sales assistant knew as I was doing a uni shop) and would not have received letters to my home address, as my single mum was often in debt and repeatedly threw away unopened mail. I did not have a regular income as a university student, which again the sales assistant knew.
Is it worth complaining about this? I’ve since paid the defaulted debt once contacted by Link Financial. Is there any chance the Aqua debt default could also be removed as I was improperly given credit by NewDay whilst I was already struggling? Both have been paid.
Both the Debenham’s card and the Aqua card are NewDay – which I’ve only recently found out – surely this constitutes irresponsible lending. The missed payments on my Aqua card should have been visible to them during the second application if they’d carried out the proper checks and so they should have known it was clearly unaffordable in the first place? I’m not even sure how they were able to carry out checks as I think I filled in a paper form and was approved immediately.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can complain you should never have been offered the second Newday card. But that won’t help the default on the Aqua card be removed.
You can’t really complain that you never received information if you think your mum probably threw the post away.
Adam says
Hi Sara,
Thanks so much for all the great information on here.
I made a complaint regarding a credit card I took out a long time ago. The complaint was in two parts. The first was that the lending was not affordable to me on the basis that I was constantly at the end of my credit amount and could only ever repay the minimum amount, that went on for years and the credit amount was quite high.
The second part was that the lender registered a default on my credit file without any warning and without me being aware that I was one missed payment away from being in danger of defaulting. This happened in 2015.
I sent my case to the FOA and have heard from an adjudicator who has says they can’t consider it as they believe I should have known in 2015 that the lending was not affordable to me, so had 3 years from then to make a complaint. They also said I complained to the lender towards the end of 2015, I can only imagine this was through me expressing my displeasure over the phone, although they may have given me a small amount as a result (like £50), but I don’t remember that well.
Is it reasonable for me to go back to the adjudicator and make the point that I may have known the lending was not affordable to me, but that I had no idea I could make a complaint about that and had no idea I could go to the FOA about that and about the default?
Thanks in advance,
Adam
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when was the account opened? what was the credit limit?
did they ever increase the credit limit?
When was the account closed – 2015?
Adam says
The account was opened somewhere around 2008/2009 I think. The credit limit was £4400 and I’m not sure whether they ever increased it and the lender wasn’t able to provide me with that information, stating they didn’t still have records.
It was closed in 2018 I think after clearing the balance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yea you can argue that yiu had no idea before recently that the lender should have checked for affordability.
But unless the lender or you have records, even if you can Get the Ombudsman to agree to look back, it may be impossible to win this case. See this comment just left by someone about a loan case. https://debtcamel.co.uk/settlements-old-debts-cca/comment-page-3/#comment-512365
Most credit card cases are won not because of the original limit but because it was increased too far at a point where the lender should have known that it was unaffordable. If you don’t know when this happened and don’t have bank statements you will struggle to prove it is unaffordable.
Laura says
Hi Sara,
Just wanted to let you know about a JD Williams affordability complaint I sent in 7 weeks ago.
Starting in 2015 I’ve had 3 accounts with them – JD Williams, Simply Be and Fashionworld. All with very high credit limits and very high interest rates making them near impossible to pay off as the monthly payments were pretty much just covering the interest.
I used your template and they responded the following day to confirm they’d received my complaints and would be back in touch within 8 weeks.
Today I got an email saying they were accepting responsibility for irresponsible lending and upholding all 3 complaints.
The total refunded amount is £11,000 and after paying off my outstanding balance on these accounts I’ll have enough left to also pay off my overdraft and credit card debt, leaving me debt free.
Thanks so much
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What a great result. And very good this didn’t have to go to the Ombudsman!
Laura says
The 3 cheques (one for each account) arrived today. Only 2 days after them confirming the outcome
Gary says
Hi, I put in a complaint against jd Williams and they have said they owe me £500, but the account was passed to a debt company in 2018. So they are going to see if there’s still a balance and if there is pass the £500 on to them. Can they do this I think they can buy just wanted to check. Thank you for any help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes they can
Gray says
Ok thank you
Leigh says
Hi, I put a complaint against Very for unaffordable credit shopping account, it was referred to financial ombudsman after 8 weeks back in May 23, at start of June they offered me £1800 refund which I accepted. Its now 14th July and I’ve still not received refund. I’ve followed up with F.O who have contacted very through their channels but received no update since I contacted F.O at start of July. Can very withdraw offer now after communicating offer to the ombudsman? I’ve also received no contact from Very. Would appreciate your advice/thoughts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No they can’t withdraw this.
Let me know if its not paid in the next couple of weeks.
leigh says
I’m.just hoping that very are playing the long game and dragging out for as long as they can.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
more likely incompetence…
leigh says
So Very are disputing their offer. They made offer on 5th june of £1800 which I accepted, they said they would not be upholding my Littlewoods complaint, which I accepted as they had sent me a cheque dated 16th May for £1100 which only referenced littlewoods. The note attached to cheque said ‘this is your littlewoods refund’. So I assumed that’s why they would not be upholding my Littlewoods complaint as they had already settled. Along with fact that offer to F.O.S was made nearly 3 weeks after I received cheque and this was referencing only to my Very account.
Really frustrated due to their handling of this, as why would they make an.offer to F.O.S after sending my a cheque . I’ve received no other correspondence from shop direct detailing what they have done to explain. I had already informed F.O.S of receiving cheque dated 16th May and that I assumed was omly related to littlewoods as that’s all that was stated on what I received. I had to again repeat all this information to F.O.S again yesterday in response to Shop Direct communication with F.O.S.
So I’m of the impression know that I won’t be getting anything due to shop directs incompetent handling of my complaint. There has also been no.paper trial from shop direct.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you had a Littlewoods account and a Very account?
They sent you a cheque in 16 May for 1100 which said is was for Littlewoods and made no mention of Very?
What did their offer on 5 June say?
leigh says
Hi, yes received a cheque dated 16th May and it said ‘attached is your LITTLEWOODS refund’ . If you need further assistance go to littlewoods.com and press contact is.
The offer was in email format from F.O.S on 5th june, the f.o.s Investigator said it was a fair offer and I agreed and accepted. No other written communication, until email from F.O.S saying very has said they sent a cheque on 16th May. Why would they then offer £1800 on the 5th June. I’ve went back to F.O.S and advised again exactly what had happened. I’ve not much confidence in the person dealing with my case unfortunately so feeling I won’t get the £1800.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So are shop direct now saying this offer via FOS was an error as you have Already been paid and accepted it?
Or that it included the money already paid so they are actually offering you 1800-1100= 700 for Very?
You have a good case to object strongly to either of these and to ask FOS to continue to investigate your case as you would not have accepted the offer if it was clear… but it will help to know what SD are actually saying.
If the adjudicator at FOS won’t agree to reopen the case ask for this to go to an Ombudsman for a decision.
leigh says
I haven’t received any information from very or the adjudicator. All received from Shop Direct was a remittance advice with tear off slip. I will put in an email and send to the adjudicator. To be honest I’ve not been very impressed with how they have handled case, very vague in any response and having to repeat over and over same information I’ve already told them. Thanks.fornadvice, I’ll update you to let you know hownit progresses.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok so the points to make are
– that if you had been told the 1100 cheque refund was for both Littlewoods and shop direct you would not have accepted it. But the accompanying note just said Littlewoods.
– as a result you though you were just taking the Very refund to the Ombudsman
– if you had Been told there recently offered 1800 refund through FOS of 1800 included the 1100 refund for Littlewoods (already paid) you would not have accepted that – you think the refund for Very should be larger than 1800-1100
– you would like the adjudicator to reopen the case as you could not have been expected to understand what was happening from Shop Directs poor communications
Thomas says
Hi Sara
I complained to Marbles and eventually after 10 weeks they responded rejecting my complaint.
I have misplaced the letter as they don’t seem to do anything online.
How do I go about sending this to the financial ombudsman without the final response letter?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Just send the complaint in using their online form and say you have received the rejection. Marbles are not going to deny this.
Thomas says
Thanks.
They have also blocked my card so I can’t use it anymore but still charge me interest. Is this right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you asked asked for a payment arrangement. What are the rest of your finances like?
thomas says
They are ok.
Working to pay off everything I owe.
I didn’t want to ask for a payment arrangement as does that harm my credit score?
Just didn’t know if they were able to block my card and keep charging the same interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes a payment arrangement or a break from paying does harm your score, but if you win the case the negative marks are removed.
Yes they can block your card. And then your balance remains on the normal terms, including interest.
leigh says
Thanks for info. I will send this to them. Issue is that I made a complaint about both my very and littlewoods accounts and they did not give me a final decision and in generic letter said I could take to f.o, which I did beginning of May 2023 then when I got cheque from littlewoods around 22nd May only mentioning littlewoods on shop direct headed paper (no mention of Very, no accompanying letter). I was then on holiday and on my return received email with offer only relating to my Very complaint and they would not be upholding my littlewoods complaint. In my naivety I though ok that makes sense as they have already settled my littlewoods complaint with cheque. I made f.o fully aware of this once the cheque for very offer wasnt arriving.
If they made their communication clear and sent offer by letter back in May rather than just a cheque I would’ve rejected it as my Very credit ccount limit was at its highest 2000 and was charged interest and late payment and admin fees from 2014 till late 2017 when they sold to DCA.
Apologies.for long winded posts :)
Thomas says
Thanks for your response.
I spoke with them on the phone earlier and the lady said my account is closed due to me complaining and that I will still have access to the app to make payments until it’s cleared to £0
Mia says
The ombudsman has asked
To assist my investigation, please could you confirm the following:
1.When did you first know you had suffered a loss?
2.When did you first realise the lender was partly to blame for that loss?
I am not sure what this means
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is the lender? Can you say a bit about your borrowing from them?
Mia says
It is for an Argos card (Home Retail Limited) in 2016 that resulted in a default.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the default was in 2016 (I am going to assume that is right and that the account was opened earlier) then the ombudsman is trying to decide if you should have complained before. That can look at anything in the last 6 years OR go back further if you have complained within 3 years of having a reason to complain.
So the answer to 1 is probably that you knew you were in financial difficulty in 2015 and 2016 (or even earlier? ) but at that point you thought it was your fault for borrowing too much.
And the answer to 2. Is probably that you had no idea that a lender should have made a check when a credit limit was set or increased that it was affordable until this year (or last?) when you found out what an affordability complaint was on social media. Say that this was like a lightbulb going on and it made you realise that Argos should not have given you such a large limit and that they were partly to blame for you difficulties in 2015 and 2016.
leigh says
Hi Sara, got email from F.O.S (Shop direct advised f.o.s offer on 16th May & issued cheque same day. F.o.s advised offer on 5 June. If F.O.S advised earlier I wouldn’t have cashed cheque. From the below I don’t think I can challenge here’s email to me:
To clarify Shop Direct shared their offer to reimburse the charges applied to the account – 12834665 (Very) on 16 May 23.Having reviewed submission, they stated “arrangements have been made for outstanding debt with Lowell to be returned to SDFC. Once process is completed, the £1802.19 redress will be applied to the account to reduce the debt. As the redress exceeds the remaining debt, the difference will be refunded via cheque directly to Mrs McKay. I communicated this offer to you on 5 June 23 & also reiterated that Shop Direct wouldnt be refunding anyyhing related to Littlewoods account, only Very account. So, it appears cheque was issued to you as soon as Shop Direct notified us of an offer being made. However, I do appreciate the confusion caused by Shop Direct stating that the refund related to Littlewoods. I’ve followed up with them for further insight as to the account the refund relates to and a breakdown of the amounts. I have also asked as to why the correspondence sent to you relates to Littlewoods. Given the confusion on this case, if you would still like this complaint investigated after update, I will arrange for it to be reviewed further.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So FOS are asking if you would still like them to investigate the case. If you are not happy with the Lowell debt being cleared plus the cheque you have cashed as a settlement of Very and Littlewoods, you can say you would like FOS to investigate.
leigh says
I think Very should’ve offered me more and their handling of complaint was incompetent. The fact shop direct couldn’t give me a final decision re: very account and advised I was within my rights now to contact F.O.S. Then proceed to send a cheque referring to Littlewoods but claim its relates to my Very complaint I wouldn’t have cashed it had I known this. I also think F.O.S taking 3 weeks to communicate offer to me was pretty poor. I’ve asked f.o.s to investigate further, but think it’s probably a waste of time.
Thanks for all your advice, it’s much appreciated.
leigh says
In addition. I’ve advised f.o.s I want to disagree with Shop Direct rejecting my complaint and reopen the case for my complaint. I didn’t challenge it when f.o.s advised of Very offer of 1800 as I was under impression that the cheque I received for 1100 was relating to my littlewoods account. As I opened both accounts at same time and lwoods credit was increased quickly after opening account, and I quickly fell behind with payments and couldn’t pay minimum payments.
I just thought it was worth a go, given how it’s all been handled.
Anna says
Hi Sara. Can I have your advice please. I have 118 credit card. Some time ago they rised the monthly payment gres and gave the customers option to block the card if you are not happy with the higher fees. I did it and pay the balance back every month but they charge me every month £25 , even though I do not use the card. Is it a fair practice?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was this always a monthly charge? Or is it new because the card is blocked?
Anna says
It was always £25.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How is this charge described on your statement? On the T&Cs for the card?
How large was your credit limit and did 118 increase this when you were only making minimum payments?
Catherine says
Hiya
Could I have some advice please. If the account is still open (such as credit cards or very/Littlewoods), can I still complain? If so what happens with the account?
Also does this show on my credit score or impact my score in anyway?
Thank you!!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes you can still complain. In fact for many people this is their only option as there is no prospect of clearing the account in a reasonable time until there has been a refund of some interest.
Most accounts nothing happens. A few close your account, in which case you don’t have to repay it all immediately, you can carry on paying as usual and this will not affect your credit score.
The complaint itself does show on your credit record. Very occasionally a lender will mark an account as “in dispute” but this is a temporary marker until they respond to your complaint, so a few weeks, and it does not affect your credit score.
There are a lot of permutations if you win the complaint. It depends how big the refund is and whether the balance is cleared. For example an account may be closed or a credit limit reduced. But I think it’s fair to say that in these cases almost everyone is very happy!
Rachel Arlow says
Hi, does anyone have the complaint email address for Very?
I’ve tried help@very.co.uk which was returned and triage1@theverygroup.com which was sent in February and hasn’t been acknowledged.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Phone them up and ask why you have not had a reply to your February complaint. Do this now, don’t wIt any longer. They may have replied and you never got the letter or email.
K says
Sent my complaint on 27/6 to simply be using the email on this site and not had any acknowledgment to my email. Is this normal practice for them? If I’ve still received nothing by 8 weeks do I just fire it off to FO?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you phone them up and ask them to confirm they are processing your complaint.
N says
I have a Creation Finance credit card I intend making an affordability complaint about (following a second credit limit increase in 2018) but I also opened a Currys account in 2019. Since the latter is also part of Creation, can I include that in my complaint (on the basis that it shouldn’t have been granted?) I managed to pay off the Currys account but the credit card has been in persistent debt for the last 27 months. Back in 2017, I had only been making minimum payments on the card for the previous 12 months prior to the increase, after my partner had become seriously ill and we had additional expenses to deal with.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, complain about both at the same time.
mrs leigh says
Hi, can you advise please.
I lodged a irresponsible lending complwith look again regarding a catalogue account, they increased my credit limit 3 times within 5 months of opening account, missed payments, barely made the minimum payment when I did make payment due to be in a financial mess.
They rejected my complaint so I contacted f.o.s who have opened a case. I advised look.again that I disagreed with their decision and would take to F.O.S. look again just sent another email, stating they stand by their decisions and this is final.
Is it pointless continuing with f.o.s is look again final decision? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No! Let FOS look at this case. Lenders reject plenty of good complaints hoping you will just give up.
mrs leigh says
Thanks Sara, I went back and said -‘thanks for reply, I completely disagree with decision and statements you make regarding my account, a case has now been opened with financial ombudsman so will let them now take over”.
Thanks again for reply, much appreciated
K says
Either Paul sweeney is blocking email addresses or the email for JD Williams needs updated as I’ve just had an email saying it could not be delivered to that address- funny as I didn’t get that when I first sent it 🤔
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They have changed the address on the FCA register! It is now daniel.mcintyre@nbrown.co.uk
Leigh says
Hi Sara just wanted to give you an update or to anyone dealing with Shop Direct. Following the debacle of my Very complaint and SD rejecting my littlewoods complaint I asked for my case to reopened, dealt with very quickly and Investigator has upheld my complaint and put to Littlewoods to refund all interest and charges for theblifetime of account, if they disagree with go to Ombudsman for decision. So glad I followed your advice and ask for case to be reinvestigated. Hopefully SD agree.
Thanks, Leigh
Sara (Debt Camel) says
fingers crossed!
Chris says
Hi Sara,
The Financial Ombudsman Service are asking me the following questions, I was hoping you might be able to advise me on the best responses.
“The card was taken out in August 2003. You complained to the business on 22 May 2023. I need to establish whether our service is able to look into the complaint that you’ve referred to us.
I say this because your complaint was made to the business more than six years after the lending decision, so it might fall outside of our jurisdiction – but I’d have to look at some other factors that can affect this.
In order to assist with this, it would be helpful if you could answer the following:
When did you first know you had suffered a loss resulting from irresponsible lending?
When did you first realise the business was at least partly to blame for that loss?
What was it that made you aware of this?
When your account was defaulted in April 2012, what did you think about the business’s decision to provide you with credit at this point?
Were there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from making a complaint any earlier than you did?”
Thanks
Chris
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you say what happened before the default in 2012? when was the account opened? was the limit even increased?
did you have any other forms of credit from that lender?
problems with other debts?
Chris says
Hi Sara,
The account was opened in 2003. Before I defualted I was only making minmum payments and taking out more credit. I was working and living at home at first, but my situtaion did change. Yes I had lots of other unsecured debts (credit cards). Yes the limits were increased. I was only making minium payments. I did do lots of balance transfers, so it may have appeared to one lender that I was paying off/reducing my debt, but I was just moving the debt around which should still have been noticed from my credit file. The companies who rejected my claims the fastest were essentially the same banking group (Halifax/Bank of Scotland) so they were fully aware of my situation. I did mention all of this in the original conplaint.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the Ombudsman is asking these questions to try to establish if they can look at these old problems.
How much information do you have about your finances pre 2012? Do you have bank statements? credit reports? credit card statements?
Because the difficulty with such old cases is that the lenders may well have retained very little information… so even if you can convince the Ombudsman to look at it, the case may not get anywhere.
Chris says
Hi Sara,
I appreciate it is going back quite a while now. But I just had a quick look and I have a box file full of old bank statements from 2010-2015, not everything for every month, but what I do have shows a pattern; little income and most of my outgoings on credit card payments and being constatnly overdrawn (I’m also making a complaint about my overdraft).
I do have some old credit card statements, but not as many. I’m signed up to Equifax and Experian, but do some of the others let you view you credit file going back more than 6 years?
Thanks
Chris
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s good you have that. It may be enough to establish unaffordability.
Unless you have had a paid subscription from that time period, I don’t think any CRAs will give you access to old credit records as they will not have retained the data to generate them.
There is still the possibility that without the credit card data it may be impossible to calculate any refunds for that card, but because you have a lot of data it seems worth trying to get through to the Ombudsman looking at the case.
So:
When did you first know you had suffered a loss resulting from irresponsible lending?
I first heard of the concept of irresponsible lending and affordability complaints this year/last year in [month].
When did you first realise the business was at least partly to blame for that loss?
When I found out about irresponsible lending this year. Up until then point, I had blamed myself not the lenders for letting finances get into such a mess that I had defaults. Now I can see that the lenders were partly to blame as they failed to make adequate checkes before giving me credit.
What was it that made you aware of this?
I [read an article in xxxx, saw a reference to them on social media, heard from a friend about them, whatever actually happened to you ].
When your account was defaulted in April 2012, what did you think about the business’s decision to provide you with credit at this point?
I think I was too busy trying to get through my life and my financial troubles to consider the lender’s decision to give me credit. I wished I had never taken it, but that isn’t the same as thinking the lender was in the wrong to give me it.
Were there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from making a complaint any earlier than you did?
FOS is looking for things here like very serious illness or prison. It is very rare that anyone gets a very old complaint considered because of exceptional circumstances
Those are just a draft – you should make sure what you send is actually accurate for you.
Chris says
Hi Sara, I replied with your responses and this is the reply from the Investigator (He is currently working on four cases and the replies are almost identical).
The rules for when a complaint can be considered are set out in the Financial Conduct
Authority handbook and are known as the Dispute Resolution Rules (DISP).
DISP 2.8.2R(2) says we can’t consider a complaint that’s referred to us more than six
years after the events, or (if later) more than three years from when a complainant ought
reasonably to have become aware of a cause for complaint, unless the delay was due to
exceptional circumstances, or the business consents to us doing so.
MBNA has not consented, and Mr Z hasn’t advised of any exceptional circumstances.
There were lending decisions in October 2005 and February 2009 (two accounts). Mr Z
complained on 25 May 2023 – more than six years after these events.
Mr Z has told me that he read about making irresponsible lending complaints in May
2023 and that prior to this he blamed himself for his default, rather than the lender.
Mr Z’s accounts defaulted in July and August 2012. Prior to this there would have been
extended periods of arrears and difficulties in affording the payments the lender required.
I think Mr Z ought reasonably to have been aware of a cause for complaint at this time.
So, from everything I’ve seen, the complaint was made too late for our service to be able
to consider under our rules.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ask for this to be looked at by an Ombudsman.
MH says
Hi Sara
After some advice please if you don’t mind. 2 NewDay cards Aqua (opened first) they agreed on unaffordable terms and stated an amount of a refund. Second one fluid was rejected. Adjudicator also rejected it. I went back and gave him the statements from the SAR showing bank transfers and gambling transactions from the aqua card thinking that they should have seen how I managed the card and in my opinion was irresponsible giving me the second card. Is it worth going to an ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes this is well worth a try.
MH says
You have stated that there were transfers of funds from your Aqua credit card to your current account, I can see two of these in August and October 2020 and although this is a potential ‘red flag’ I don’t think they were frequent enough to say that NewDay shouldn’t have opened your Fluid account, particularly as they opened the Fluid account with only a relatively small credit limit.In relation to the point you raised regarding gambling on your Aqua card, I can see several gambling transactions on your statements between October and December 2019. However from January 2020 to November 2020 there are no more gambling transactions, so as this was a period of ten months without any gambling transactions before the Fluid card was opened, I don’t think it was irresponsible
for NewDay to open the Fluid account, especially as they only gave a relatively modest credit limit of £450, which would only require around £22.50 a month as a sustainable payment, as this would be more than the minimum payment and so would also reduce the outstanding balance. Although I can see issues with your Aqua account between October and December 2019, including frequently being over the limit, there were none of those issues in the eight month period, from March 2020 and November 2020, before the Fluid account opened. In answer to your point about your bank statements for the three month period before the Fluid account opened, considering the income you declared in your application and the amount of outstanding debt they saw when they completed a credit check and the relatively modest credit limit granted, I don’t think they needed to look at your bank statements and so I think the checks that NewDay carried out were proportionate. Therefore having reviewed the additional information you have provided it doesn’t change my view of your complain
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you disagree with any of that or think anything is being overlooked?
when you opened the Fluid account, was the aqua car near its limit? were you only making minimum payments to it?
MH says
When the fluid card was opened the balance on the aqua card was £724 of a £1650 limit making minimum payments. I feel that the adjudicator has overlooked how the aqua card was managed with gambling transactions on the credit card – I broke this down to him on an email e.g.
Between October 2019 and November 2019 I used my aqua card to gamble £750.00 within one month on the above named betting sites. This is clearly misuse of the card and NewDay knew this. I actually had gone over my Aqua card limit on several occasions and incurred SEVERAL over limit fees of £12 each time, again – example of this see statement letter 7th Oct 2019, November and and December sees more use age of the card for heavy gambling and late fees of £12 applied. It seems because it was ‘a while’ since this has happened he seems it’s irrelevant to the fluid card.
MH says
NewDay knew of my activity and how I was managing my initial account with them, through my Aqua credit card. They were aware that I had been making several large bank transfers from my credit card to my current account. This in itself is a red flag to show that a customer is not managing there other financial commitments. NewDay were also aware that I had historically used my Aqua credit card for gambling deposits (see my attached statements; references ‘B365’ (Bet365) William Hill & Sky bet on the statements. Example of this is on statements dated 29th Sept 2019 & 25th Oct 2019.
Chloe says
Hi Sara, any advice would be appreciated.
The FOS agreed that they would look back on my credit card from 2014 however they have now found the initial issuing of the cad at £250 was okay, they also say the limit increase to £500 was fine too. This is because they were both low.
I accept the the issuing however I don’t think the limit should’ve been increased because if Vanquis had looked at how I was using my card they would’ve seen it was all for gambling and I was being charged cash fees on a daily basis.
Is that reason enough to challenge?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes I think that is a good reason. Go back and say that you accept the initial limit was low, but the way you had used your card, with gambling showing and frequent cash fees meant it was irresponsible of them to increase the limit. Instead they should have closed the account and stopped charging interest.
Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator does not change their mind.
Pete says
Good afternoon
I’ve recently submitted a complaint against Newday (marbles) for irresponsible lending as they’ve increased my limit twice in the space of 8 months, (the other 2 limits were both maxed out quite quickly) due to excessive gambling. I’m 50 now and i can only make the minimum payment each month and with my current balance it will take 40 + years to pay this off.
My question is will they need to see copies of my bank statement as i’m always reluctant in sending these to lenders.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was the gambling showing on the Marbles statements?
Pete says
No as you are unable to gamble with deposits straight from credit cards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you used to be able to – you didn’t say how long ago this was.
Sending bank statements is the best proof that you had a gambling problem – it supports your case.
How large were the limits? how large is your current balance?
Petr says
Ah they stopped this about 18 months ago… the current balance is around 2500 with a limit of 3300… the card initially had a limit of 1400 back in September when the account was opened but they’ve increased limit twice since.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
OK. The simple answer to your questions is that Newday may not ask to see your bank statements, but it is probably a good ide to provide them when you complain as they support you case.
What other debts do you have? Had they increased after the Marcbles account was opened?
Do you have any other Newday cards eg Aqua, Fluid?
(These questions are looking to see what other evidence could help)
Pete says
Yes I do have 3 other cards that are non newday which are close to being maxed out and 2 loans.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Right so what is the timeline on these… can you fit them into date order ; marbles account opened, marbles first limit increase , marbles 2nd limit increase, other card one opened, other card 1 maxed out, same for other cards 2 & E, loan 1 taken, loan 2 taken.
Also the other cards, did they too increase your limits?
And the loans, who are the lenders and what are the interest rates?
peter says
The time line on these are as follows
Tesco card, balance around £800
Marbles card, balance around £2500
Zable/zopa card, balance around £900
Thimbl card balance around £800
I do also have 2 loans both with an APR of around 39%
Lendable balance around £2500 (i used this initially to pay off the balances on the credit card but then ran them straight back up again)
118 money balance around £1500
Sara (Debt Camel) says
where do the loans fit into that sequence?
and can you add the marbles limit raises in too?
This may seem a hassle, but telling a coherent story of how your debts were getting worse and what Marbles should have noticed at the point of each of the limit rises is the key to winning a case like this.
Plus you may well be able to win complaints about the two loans and the newer cards…
Pete says
The loans were both at the end of the year, the increases from Marbles were back in February (raised to £2250) then in May up to £3300.
I’ve sent the letter off to them yesterday and I’ll await and see what they come back with.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so
Tesco card, balance around £800
Sept 23 Marbles card opened balance around £2500
dec 22 Lendable loan 2500
dec 22 118 loan 1500
feb 23 Marbles limit increases
What are the dates for the other cards, Zable/zopa/Thimbl?
Pete says
The Zable/Zopa was probably around December when the card was obtained and the credit limit increased around April this year, the Thimbl card was obtained around May time.
the original Marbles balance was around £1400 in September then in February i was close to the limit so they increased it to £2200 then when i got close to this figure in May / June time they upped it again to £3300
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so a complete list is:
Tesco card, balance around £800
Sept 23 Marbles card opened balance around £1400
Dec 22 Zable open account
Dec 22 Zopa open account
Dec 22 dec 22 Lendable loan 2500
dec 22 118 loan 1500
feb 23 Marbles limit increase to 2200
Apr 23 Zable increased limit
May 23 Thimbl open account
May/June Marbles increase credit limit 3500
So that sets out why Marbles should not have increased your limit in Feb (all that extra borrowing in December)
i think you should also be making complaints about the 2 loans and the later cards as well.
Pete says
Yes i’ll see how i get on with Marbles then i may well contact them as well.
I initially started the complaint with Marbles via online chat but i found a complaints email address for new day so i’ve also sent a copy there.
Thank you for all your assistance Sara
HH says
I’ve just had the FO investigator decision back about my complaint to MBNA and it’s not gone my way at all, which has put me in a panic about what to do next.
Essentially my complaint was that I paid off my MBNA balance with a bank loan, credit to service credit as is the spiral of debt, in late 2018 and then they left my credit limit as it was despite other adverse credit on other accounts.
The investigator says I am timed out for complaining despite me stating I had no idea what irresponsible lending was until this year, the FO stated I should have known I could have complained (in general terms) at the time. The FO also states that as my limit was reduced in 2011 and 2015 I should have known MBNA were reviewing my position and being responsible. My question is then why did they raise it back up again in 2016 and have never reduced it since, despite a default happening on another card in 2018?
Do you think it’s worth asking for this to go to the next level? Any help gratefully received as I’ve been on a zero payment plan with them pending starting my new job next month, and I’m desperately trying to avoid another default as the last one drops off early next year. But if there’s no point then I’ll have to just get my head down and see what happens next.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should go back and say that you had no idea that MBNA considered that your account was unaffordable for you, and as MBNA increased your limit again in 2016 this just looked like some business decision as they did not explain why. Point out that if they had written to you and told you the account was unaffordable, then you would have considered this and made a complaint. But as you did not they they should have assessed affordability and as the limit reduction letters did not mention this, it is unreasonable to suggest that you should have known at that point.
Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind.
Do you have other debts as well?
HH says
Hi, I’m so glad you don’t think I’m mad like the investigator seems to think! The 2011 reduction letter does make reference to them being a responsible lender but the 2015 one is more generic about looking at me as a customer. Nothing negative actively stated but I guess it’s implied.
MBNA say I was given the opportunity to decline the 2016 increase but ‘as we didn’t hear from you’ they went ahead.
I do have other debts which are mainly as a result of trying to keep on top of this MBNA one (balance transfers that I’ve not got paid off, that kind of thing). but they are affordable to clear once I’ve gone back to work and sorted this MBNA situation out.
I already had to correct the investigator in that they said my complaint related to MBNA giving me the card in the first place, which it didn’t, I had no concerns about that.
I’ll go back to the investigator and say what you have above and also reiterate that it’s the increased balance in 2016 and then the lack of review (why didn’t they, like they did in 2011 and 2015?) In 2018 that I’m concerned with?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think their failure to review in 2018 isnt a particularly strong point. A bank is under an obligation to review overdrafts annually. A credit card lender has no such obligation to review exiting limits.
But this is not what you are arguing about at the moment. Concentrate on what the adjudicator is looking at , which is not whether BMNA should have reduced your limit in 2018 but at what point you knew you had a reason to make a complaint.
Your argument is that the communications from MBNA in 2015 were not clear that they thought the limit was unaffordable and at that point you thought you were at fault for borrowing a lot, as you were unaware that MBNA should have checked for affordability and so they were partially responsible.
Gemma says
Hi Sara,
I’m considering putting in a complaint to Vanquis. They haven’t increased the limit, and it’s been open years, but the pattern is always paying the minimum and then using what little available balance is left to make ends meet. This has gone on for years and every month they apply interest that takes me over my limit.
Surely they should consistently monitor for patterns like this and put a hold on credit facilities when there is persistent debt and work with the person to reduce the balance.
Do you think it’s worth complaining?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large is the limit?
Was it affordable at the time it was given, or was it always very larger for you?
Do you have other debts as well at the moment?
Gemma says
Hi Sara,
I do have other debts I’m working my way through in settling.
The limit is £2000. At the time it was taken the limit was about £400 (I think) , which was fine at the time, and they’ve increased it over the years. Not for a very long time though.
Thanks,
Gemma
Thanks,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was the last increase more than 6 years ago?
Gemma says
I’d have to check, but it probably was.
Thanks,
Gemma
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this is worth an affordability complaint that the credit limit was raised too high. If the last increase was over 6 years ago, it is very likely that Vanquis will reject it and you will have to send it to the Ombudsman.
There are some rules around persistent credit card debt, introduced in 2018. From memory I think Vanquis may have increased its montly minimum payments around that time to ensure that its customers didn’t meet the technical “persistent credit card debt” hurdle. So if you want to mention what you think Vanquis out to have done, that’s fine, but I suggest the heart of your complaint should be about unaffordable lending, not persistent credit card debt.
Jen says
The adjudicator found in my favour by the bank (Virgin) has asked to see my bank statements that they made the decision from, is that normal?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Virgin have asked to see the Virgin bank statements? or were they from some other bank?
Jen says
Virgin have asked to see my current account statements. My current account is with Lloyds
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t heard of it happening before, but I haven’t seen a lot of Virgin overdraft cases.
Mia says
Good morning Sara,
I just wanted to give you a quick update and say thank you, I really don’t know what I’d have done without your site. I had resigned myself to being in debt and working 2 jobs for the foreseeable future. I thought the trouble I had been in from 19 (now 27) was completely my fault. You are an incredible person to offer this support and guidance for free. I hope the universe will give back to you tenfold.
I have made affordability complaints to six credit card providers and four loan companies. They are all now with the ombudsman. Two of the credit card complaints have been upheld and I am waiting for responses from the companies by the 7th August. This gives me great hope that the others will be too.
Argos card did not consent to the ombudsman considering the complaint as it was just over 6 years ago in March 2017. However, the ombudsman have agreed that the complaint has been made within 3years of realising I had cause to complain and have told Argos they will investigate with the evidence I have provided if they don’t receive a response from them by 15th August. I would encourage other people past the 6 year mark to follow your instructions and make the complaint if they feel they have a case.
Even if I do not receive refunds from all the complaints I find comfort in the fact that these companies are being held accountable for their actions and it may stop other people ending up in the situation I have found myself in.
Thanks again
CM says
I completely agree. I was in such a terrible situation as well and have submitted many complaints. Some have been upheld and others are with the ombudsman. If I wasn’t in such a terrible financial situation I would have just scrolled past Sara’s instagram page but I feel like she is my guardian angel. I can finally see light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you so much Sara.
JohnC says
I used Sara’s brilliant advice and was an active participant on here a few years back, getting multiple refunds for payday loans etc. The advice and help is outstanding and very helpful. It turned my life around and enabled me to get a mortgage with a high street lender and a house move in 2021. I am forever grateful for the help I received, and i’ve tried to help friends wherever possible who might have had similar issues
A colleague has recently complained to NewDay about use on a credit card. They were using their credit card for gambling in 2020 on a number of foreign websites. They have gamstop set up, but I understand this only covers UK websites. They don’t know how much was spent, but this was certainly hundreds of pounds. I suggested they get copies off their statements back to 2020. Last year they started using one of these raffle websites. From what they have said they have used 2 different NewDay cards to make nearly 400 transactions over 10 months totalling over £8k. Over £4k of this was in 2 months. I know that these websites are not classed as gambling sites but I presume the process would be the same?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Blast from the past, I remember your name!
Two cards from Newday. The first thing to check is which card was opened second. And whether at that point the first card was frequently maxed out with only minimum payments being made. If it was, there is probably a good complaint that they should never have been given the second card at all, so all interest and charges on that one should be refunded. That applies whatever the second card was being used for.
Then the first card – was the credit limit ever increased? Daftly high?
The raffle website – did the charges to the credit card show as cash transactions? If they did, you cam argue the lender should have been aware of them.
JohnC says
Hi Sara! How can you forgoet my many rants to the MFSA about Northway. 2016-2017 was fun!
I’m not sure of the answers, I will see them on Monday and come back. Many thanks for the quick response as always
JohnC says
Hi Sara, they have sent me some more detail and i’m even less sure what to advise. The 2 NewDay cards are for Pulse which replaced a House of Fraser card. This was opened in 1997 and had a limit of £2050. It was just a store card for years before becoming a credit card. They don’t remember when. The 2nd card is an Aqua card (one i’m all too familiar with), which was opened in 2007. This had a limit of £1600 until August 2020 when it went to £2500, then £3900 in June 21, £4950 in October 2021 and then £6000 in February 2022. It has remained at that level since. They say in that time its always been at or near the limit.
They remortgaged in December 2020, took a loan out in December 2021 for £1600 and then again in March 2022 for £8000 with the same lender (sorry I don’t know who this is with).
Issue is that they are higher up in the business than I am and earn a good salary. I would guess it would be around £70-£80k a year. They have had no defaults, never had a payday loan etc. The gambling in 2020 on the card was done through Paypal, as was a number of transactions on the raffle website. so not sure if that makes a difference?
Many thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the limit of the the Pulse card was never increased. I doubt they will win a complaint about that.
The Aqua card was opened a very long time ago. I don’t think they are going to be able to argue it was a problem from the start.
The Aqua limit was increased a lot after the gabling transaction of 2020. The problem is that going through PayPal effectively disguises the gambling, but nevertheless it sounds as thogh in 2020 there was a significant change in the way the card was used which should have been visible when Aqua considered the limit increases. I think an affordability complaint here is worth a try, but their high income means it may be difficult to win. The large 8k loan comes after all the limit increases so it doesn’t help an Aqua complaint.
JohnC says
Thanks Sara. I didn’t think this would be straight forward and was more focussed on the amount on transactions in 2 months – 166 that totalled over £4k and how this should flag up an issue. Think the government need to close the raffle website loophole that its not classed as gambling too, but that is a separate debate. I’ve suggested they look at an affordability once they get their statements from 2020 as it might be a bit clearer. If this shows lots of gambling, regardless of how it was paid, then I’ll suggest to them to put in an affordability complaint
Thanks again
Robert says
Hello guys,
Has anyone had any success with complaints against Jacamo and Studio? I opened both accounts in 2018 and was given £200 limits on both as my credit score was crippled with payday loan debt etc at that time (not anymore thankfully!)
I then went into a debt plan with StepChange which caused some defaults on my account which i was aware was a possibility before i signed up for the plan. However both Jacamo and Studio then started to increase my limits over the last couple of years while still in the debt plan.
I now have limits of £3000 with Jacamo and £1050 with Studio. Increased automatically by them and never once asked if these were affordable or had any questions asked… would it be worth a complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were these accounts included in your DMP?
Robert says
No, I didn’t include either of them as thought they were small limits of £200
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that would have avoided all these problems.
This seems like a good complaint about to Studio and Jacomo. Say the original £200 limit was fin but yoiu think all the increases after that were unaffordable and they should have been able to tell this from your credit record.
Send the cases to the ombudsman if they are not upheld.
Darius says
Hi Sara,
I have had my complaint upheld by the FOS with the result of interest being refunded, an affordable repayment plan to clear the balance and all adverse information to be cleared from my credit record – amazing!
However, it’s been 6 weeks since this result and I have not heard anything back from NewDay regarding the above. When I ask their live chat they have no record of the ombudsman case but ask for me to call their complaints team. They offered me the general repayment plan they offer all customers but if I were to accept it, would it affect whatever arrangement I have following the outcome of the ombudsman case?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
was this decision from an adjudicator? do you know if Newday accepted the decision?
Or was it a second level “ombudsman” decision?
Darius says
After escalating to FOS and the adjudicator investigation, the offer was actually proposed by NewDay themselves so I assumed it’s accepted? The adjudicator let me know that NewDay themselves would contact me to set up a payment plan and afterwards to remove the credit file as per their guidelines
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back to your adjudicator and say that nothing is happening
Darius says
Thanks Sara I’ll do that. As the affordable payment plan hasn’t been put in place, the high payment is due on the card on Friday, would there be any repercussions if I miss this
Ie it would still get wiped from my credit file as agreed by the adjudicator?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If that is what was proposed by Newday, yes
MK says
Hi Sara
I previously had credit cards with Vanquis for which I made affordability complains in 2021/22 which were not upheld. By Vanquis but we’re by the Ombudsman. I have since incurred some debts due to funeral costs so applied for a credit card and loan via credit karma and was accepted by Vanquis. I should have known better than to accept the £3000 loan and £500 credit card but was desperate. I am struggling a lot to make the payments on both together with other cards.
My question is do I complain to Vanquis and if I do how should I word the email
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what other debts do you have?
MK says
I have a loan with quidmarket of £1500 loan with credit spring and credit cards with capital one £1300 and £500
Sara (Debt Camel) says
2 cap one credit cards?
MK says
Capital one and Luma which is part of capital one I think
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should look at a debt management plan for all of your debts.
The complaint to Vanquis should point out that you had had affordability complaints upheld by the Ombudsman very recently.
The complaint to Cap One should say they should not have increased the limit on the first card or given you a second card.
Th creditspring loan is tiny. But probably worth a complaint to Quidmarket as that is a large payday loan.
MK says
Thank you once again
nuttyham says
Hi,
6 years ago I entered into a DRO.
3/4 years ago I was able to get credit vanquis, new day, home essentials, simply be, a sky mobile, DFS etc am i able to say it was unfair lending as I had obviously struggled with debt in the past?
I have ADHD and really struggle to understand finances. I am so angry with myself that i have let this happen again.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have your finances improved a lot since the DRO eg you are earning significantly more?
How large are your total debts at the moment?
Debbie says
Hi Sara, I have finally received a response from Barclaycard, regarding my complaint, to unaffordable lending.
Barclaycard. are not going to uphold my complaint, due to the amount of time that has passed.
I was also unaware of the following credit limit increases, as stated in their response to me:
08 February 2012 opening limit £400
01 August 2012 credit increase £800
04 March 2015 credit increase £2500
27 October 2015 credit increase £6400
02 May 2017 credit increase £7200
They mention that all lending decisions, are more than six years ago, from my complaint being raised 10 July 2023.
I don’t hold out much hope now as to whether I have a case for the Financial Ombudsman?
I have always been on benefits, throughout this duration, as me mentioned before, I have always suffered with my mental health.
I was never aware of this unaffordable lending process?
I would appreciate your assistance with regards to what my options are now? As always, thank you so much for your time and help Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Going to the Ombudsman is one option – but do you have any others…
What is your current balance?
Can I ask what the rest of your finances are like? Do you have other problem debts?
Are you able to make any significant payments to this debt?
Are you buying or renting?
Do you mind sharing what benefits you are on?
Debbie says
Hi Sara thank you for getting back to me.
In answer to your questions:
The Current Balance is £5425
My current finances are manageable and I do not have any problem debts
I live in a housing association property, but, get housing benefit
I am in receipt of Income Based ESA and am in
the Support Group.
I receive DLA, High Rate Care Component
Low Rate Mobility
I am not in a position to make significant repayments
I am 62 years old
I hope this information helps you and thank you again Sara, for all the very much appreciated help you give to us all.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so if you win the case at the Ombudsman for the card being unaffordable from say OCt 17, when they shouldnt have given you that big increase, the refund will probably be significant and may be enough to clear the current balance.
On that basis I think this is worth sending to the Ombudsman now.
In your complaint to the Ombudsman point out that although you realised your balance was getting large back in 2015, at that time you thought this was your own fault for borrowing too much. You had no idea that Barclaycard should have checked for affordability so at that point you didn’t think they had done anything wrong so you had no reason to complain. If your mental health problems make it hard to concentrate or to take complicated decisions, you should also mention this.
Your other option is to look at a Debt Relief Order now – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/dro/ . That would clear the current balance. It harms your credit score, but that doesn’t seem likely to be a problem for you?
A DRO would be sorted much quicker than an Ombudsman complaint and it may be less stressful If you want to talk about this, phone national Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Or you could try to get the complaint sorted at the Ombudsman, but if that fails at that point you could look at a DRO.
Debbie says
Hi Sara
Thank you for your response.
I am going to try the Ombudsman first. I will also make them aware of my long term mental health conditions and inform them of the medication I have been on for over 20 years. Yes, my mental health conditions do affect my decision making, and, I am also currently receiving counselling, from the Primary Care team, Social Link Worker.
Should I attach a copy of the original email complaint, which I sent to Barclaycard?? Along with a copy of their response I received?
I am assuming I can find the email link here for the FO?
Thank you again, so so much for helping me through this Sara, I really am extremely grateful to you.
I also apologise for asking what May appear to be obvious questions.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes the link is in the How to Send a case to the Ombudsman section in the article above.
It asks you what has gone wrong and how you want it put right – so split up what you said in your complaint email into those sections.
Attach the rejection letter.
Debbie says
Hi Sara
Well, I shall be doing this, and of course, I shall definitely come back to you, when I receive the FO final decision.
Whatever the outcome, shall I say it again …… Thank You for all the help you offer to so many Sara ….. but for me….. you have been an absolute lifeline…. Here I go to the FO 🤞
Debbie says
Hi Sara
I sent my complaint to the FO, they responded via email requesting the following:
FROM FO: Please advise me the date that you became aware that the account was unaffordable, and when you began blaming or partially blaming the business for this?
Is there a reason that when you started to struggle to make repayments, and at the times of credit limit increases, that you did not partially blame the business by way of contacting their complaints team or other?
Sara, today I responded to the email, with the advice given previously regarding timescales. An in depth detailed ‘picture’ of my circumstances during the timeline and to date (mental, financial and emotional)
my lack of knowledge or understanding of responsible lending, or that there were indeed any timescales for complaint, or I had a case to complain? I thought it was all my fault.
I received this response within the last half hour from the FO:
Thank you for sending the below information to me. This can now be reviewed as part of your complaint.
I will make contact with you in due course.
Should I have any further questions during the investigation, I will send these to you by email.
Thank you for your patience whilst the complaint investigation is completed.
Sara, I want to thank you for giving me the confidence to even take these steps, I’m not sure how long it takes for an outcome. I shall update you when I hear kind regards debbie
Debbie says
Hi SaraI last wrote to you Aug 26th 2023.
I Am desperately seeking further help from you.
Today I received a provisional response from the Ombudsman.
Barclays saying I’m out of the 6years.
Ombudsman referring not to uphold but using the DISP Rules.
They say I should have realised I had cause for complaint. No mention of me contacting barclaycard begging for help because of my gambling, ref my contact with you. I should have realised because of default letters.
I should have realised I should have been paying more to BC, as I hadn’t been making min payment BC
In Feb 2019 I had a letter from BC they had overcharged £430 I wrote and asked for payment to me, they said it would come off account. BC I raised the lack of credit checks in this letter?? Also I wasn’t working etc. BC say I consented to affordability credit checks as part of assessment on original application . BC no longer have copies of checks because of time passed. I ought o have been aware BC carrying out some checks to see if I could afford repayments.
The provisional decision is that I should have been aware of the time to complain, by Feb 2019. So I am out of the 3 and 6 year timescale. Ombudsman can not look at my complaint it’s outside time limit they must apply. I Must reply to them by 17th Jan 2024
More to this but no space to add.
Many thanks Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you can reasonably go back and say you don’t see how a letter saying Barclaycard had overcharged you, which said nothing about affordability checks, was supposed to make you realise suddently that Barclaycard should have been making affordability checks that the credit limit would be mnageable for you.
But Ombusdsman decisions about old complaints are always a bit erratic. As I said before, if you don’t win this, then a debt relief order looks like a simple way to resolve your debt problem.
Debbie says
Hi Sara
It really baffled me tbh. BC had overcharged on my A/C hence they wrote to me, according to BC my response was to ask for the amount overcharged to be paid to me directly etc and BC I had raised the issue of ‘affordability checks’ ??? Within my letter to them??
So I shall make contact to Ombudsman again, and raise this point, I don’t hold out a lot of hope, it is sad, my medicated mental health is genuine, caring for my mum with Alzheimer’s for over 9 years, sadly she passed last year, I’ve had alot of genuine traumas, plus all the time robbed from us all during covid lockdowns, and yet, they feel ‘I should of known’ I knew something wasn’t right, but I didn’t know what, or that more importantly, that I had ‘any rights’ that’s the sad difference, until I came across your amazing site,
thank you so much Sara
I shall let you know the ‘outcome’ you have been a massive help.
Kind regards Debbie
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So I shall make contact to Ombudsman again, and raise this point
yes – be clear neither you nor BC mentioned affordability checks
Eleanor says
I was on a debt management plan from 2017 – 2019. The debts included in this plan were pay day loans, very.co.uk and other credit cards.
My very account was closed once the plan was paid off, but I was able to open a new account the following year with an £850 limit that has since increased to 5k.
My last increase was this year when I was already 4k into my limit, they increased it by another £850.
I feel like by allowing me to open an account again, given all the defaults and my problems with debt managemnet previously, it was irresposnible to lend. Do I have a case?
Also, the same year I finished my debt management plan, I was allowed a Credit card with 118, followed by a loan a couple of months later. 118 offered me a top up the following year, and the year after that. I paid the loan off in 2020, and the month after, the offered me another loan and a top up the following year. I feel that if 118 had looked into my credit file properly, they would have seen my DMP and problems with debt management before and should never have allowed me to borrow or keep offering me increases.
Just wanted to see if this is a reasonable cause for complain. Im not exactly a low earner as was on around 40k when offered all of this, but once again its got out of control and im spending thousands on interest every year. I feel so ashamed!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So these debts are out of control because the monthly repayments leave you so short of money that you end up borrowing again?
That is the heart of an affordability complaint. It isn’t just that your credit record showed a lot of recent debt with defaults and payment arrangements… with your DMP cleared it may have been reasonable to lend you some money.
But for both Very and 118 they have increased what they lent you a lot. That is the heart of your complaint.
It is made stronger for Very if they increased your limit when you were Only making minimum payments. And when they could see you were also getting other debts on your credit record.
It is made stronger for 118 if they were offering you top ups or new loans when you also owed them money on the credit card and could see the increasing Very debt on your credit record.
I also think an £850 limit at the start sounded high for Very as you had previously had problems on a very account.
So overall I think these sounds like two good complaints – but the decisions to lend at the start is only a part of this so do make sure you also explain why the additional lending should not have been given.
Are these your only debts?
Eleanor says
Thank you so much – your advice is invaluable.
I have lots of debt. Around 24k now.
6 credit cards maxxed out. 2 overdrafts which I live in.
My car finance.
I’ve never missed payments up until recently, the past few months my outgoings exceed what comes in and I have made late payments to 118 the past couple of months.
I am terrified of ruining my credit and getting in trouble with these companies so I always have paid them, but now it’s at the point where the debt is out of control.
I can’t tell you how much shame my money situation brings me. I don’t tell anyone!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s is a lot of lending.
I suggest you make a time line of all the lending since your DMP ended eg
Feb 20 very account opened credit limit 850
Apr 118 credit card opened credit limit 500
May 20 very increase limit to 1220
August aqua account opened limit 400
Etc etc
This will help you to see easily what each lender should have seen from your credit records when you applied for an account or when they rises your limit.
Overdrafts – are you in them all or almost all of the month? How long has this been going on for?
Car finance – has this been taken out since your DMP finished? What interest rate?
Your credit record is already poor. I think you need another debt management plan. For everything except the car finance which has to be paid in full.
Winning affordability complaints will speed up the DMP and may lessen the impact on your credit record, but they may take many months to go through as lot of them have to go to the Ombudsman.
That’s why you need a DMP to get into a safe financial position while the complaints go through. Otherwise you may just be tempted to accept a poor offer from a lender as it will help you get through the next month when you could get a lot more from the Ombudsman.
Eleanor says
Thank you. I will look into DMP again.
I’ve had a quick look at my credit file and can see that I have always been close to my credit limit with 118. They started me on a £250 limit and have increased 4 times to 1600. Whilst always being close to my limit already.
I’ve also a credit card with tesco, they started me on £500 limit in October 20 and since then have increased a further 3 times to £1700 limit. Again, I’ve always been close to the limit and have never been able to pay down.
Aqua gave me a 900 limit in January this year and when I was £850 into the limit, they increased to £1900 in May 23. Is it worth claiming with them?
Oodle car finance gave me an £8k loan for car in May 21 with 4k interest over 60 months. I had 2 maxxed out credit cards and one loan at the time they lent me, is it worth doing a claim with them?
Monzo I originally had 500 OD with them in 2021 and they’ve increased it twice to 1500 since then. I’ve been close to the limit most months.
I’ve checked with very and again I’ve been utilising a lot of my credit the entire time I’ve had the facility and they’ve offered me more credit.
They offered me the new account 6 months after my dmp was complete with a £1100 limit. I thought it was 850 but got that wrong!
I would think a lot of this is irresponsible lending. Do you?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Fitting all these into a timeline is going to make all these claims much simpler. The claim to an individual lender has to reflect what they lender definitely know (how you managed your account with them, whether you usually just made minimum payments, other borrowing from them for 118, for Very the previous account) – and also what they should have seen from your credit record (the rising debts and recent credit applications). Ibnclude the car finance it this – it is a significant outgoing for you that lenders after May 21 should have taken into account.
Tesco & Aqua – yes these sound like good claims. tesco the original limit may have been ok but the rises werent. Aqua, that was a high initial limit when they could see all the other lending on your credit record
Monzo – how many days of the month are you in the overdraft?
Oodle – is this car essential? how much have you paid to date in total?
Eleanor says
Thank you.
I’ve already done the claims for 118 and Very last week, so if I end up having to go the ombudsman, I guess I can be more detailed with the timeline then.
I will make the claims for aqua and tesco.
I definitely need my car and I’m in a rubbish situation where I’ve paid nearly 4k in two years (including interest) but my car has shot down in value due to the ULEZ expansion. I have nearly 6k left to pay but am in around 3k negative equity now so I’m stuck with it! Note to self: never finance a car again!
My Monzo overdraft I am in it every month and pay £40 a month interest!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oodle – if you make an affordability claim now, you may win the claim but lose the car – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-win-affordability-complaint/.
But when you get to having repaid the 8k you borrowed you can make a claim and be safe. In practice you can start the claim a couple of months before that point. So work out when it is and make a big note in your mental diary to put the affordability claim in at that point.
Monzo – I am asking how many days of the month you are in the overdraft – there is a big difference between 25+ days most months and less than 10 days.
Chloe S says
Hi,
I have affordability complaints for 2x Barclaycard cc and 1x Halifax cc which are now with an adjudicator. They were rejected by the banks as they deemed the credit limit increases out of time to complain. The adjudicator has come back saying that they believe I am still in time to complain as I only became aware of irresponsible lending this year and are using the 3 year rule, they have asked the lenders to confirm if they agree or disagree and it’s been over 3 weeks since I’ve heard anything further. Is this a good sign that they may make the lenders refund me all or part of the interest or is this a normal part of the FOS process?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Where a lender has objected to a case being considered because the case is too old, FOS has to decide that issue first. No one from FOS has a thought about your case and if the cards were unaffordable yet.
I don’t think the 3 week delay has much significance either way, not good or bad news, just no news.
Chloe S says
Ok thank you, both lenders have now come back saying they agree with the adjudicator to now carry out the assessment so I will wait and see what the outcome is.
The other issue I have is I had a claim with Next where the adjudicator partially upheld my claim and said Next must rework the account removing all interest, charges and insurances on balances above £3000 from April 2016. They credited £400 to my account and said that is my interest refund. I can’t go back as far as 2016 with my online statements but since July 2021 my account has had a balance over £3000 apart from 2 months and the total interest I have paid from then until now is over £1500 so I presume I only get a proportion of the interest for the part of the balance that over £3000 ie in July 2021 my balance was £3081 so would I get the interest back only for the £81? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“ie in July 2021 my balance was £3081 so would I get the interest back only for the £81?”
Exactly. That is why these partial refunds are often very low.
GO back and tell your adjudicator that you did not undertand what was meant by a partial refund. If you think the £3000 limit was also clearly too high, say that the increase to £3000 was also unaffordable. And say that next should have been able to see that you were in significant difficulty att the poont they increased it fursther from £3000 so they should instead have offered to freeze interest on the balance, so you would like a full refund from that point not a partial one.
Chloe S says
Thanks for your reply, I have gone back to the adjudicator.
The adjudicator has not upheld my claim for 2 Barclaycard credit cards with the reasoning that my bank statements don’t show income and expenditure and that I must have another account I used to pay bills and have my salary paid into. I’ve sent statements for both accounts I have and it’s clear the income and expenditure is shown so I’m unsure where to take it from here as they have said they can’t investigate any further if there is no more evidence provided. My joint bank account statements also show a £4000 overdraft which we were in most days of the month for 4 years. They have also said that they do think Barclaycard didn’t carry out the appropriate checks but because of the above that isn’t enough. Should I provide payslips or just ask to have the claim escalated to the ombudsman? I feel like they haven’t looked over my statements and credit report properly.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so “both accounts” is your own account and the joint account?
Chloe S says
Yes 1 joint account and 1 personal account both of which were provided to the adjudicator as far back as 2014.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the joint account shows your salary going in I assume. Go back and point out that you have giver FOS the statements for that account as well. Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesnt change their mind.
Chloe S says
Yes the joint account is where my income comes in every month and it’s clearly visable. I will go back to the adjudicator and advise I have already sent in statements for both of my accounts. I will escalate this to the ombudsman if the adjudicator still disagrees.
Chloe S says
The adjudicator has refused to review my claim as I do not have anything to further prove my income and expenditure. Would it be worth providing my payslips and contacting all of the lenders to ask for statements as far back and they can provide to prove my income vs my monthly payments to credit cards and catalogue accounts?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is a bit silly. Go back to the adjudicator and ask them to confirm that they have looked at the bank statements for the two bank accounts that you have sent. them
If they say yes, ask them exactly what more information they want as the two bank accounts show your income and expenses.
Chloe S says
Hi Sara, after going back and forward with the adjudicator they have not upheld my claim even though I provided payslips for the time of the increases. They have said they don’t think Barclaycard did carry out the proper checks but there isn’t enough evidence of my income and expenditure. I’ve asked for this to be escalated to the Ombudsman but am I right in saying that they usually side with the adjudicators view? I feel it didn’t matter what info I provided it wasn’t going to be enough.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
even though I provided payslips for the time of the increases
and even though you have provide two sets of bank statements? HAs the adjudicator actually looked at both?
Chloe S says
Yes she has looked over both sets of bank statements and payslips thoroughly and it’s not enough for them to say if it was unaffordable. I have asked for it to be escalated to the ombudsman but feel it’s a lost cause.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ombudsmen normally agree with adjudicators because the adjudicators normally make good decisions… when you know A decision isn’t right, push this all the way and keep making sensible points. It isn’t that rare for an Ombudsman to reach a different decision.
Chloe S says
Thanks Sara, I am definitely going to push this. Do you know if I can email the ombudsman with additional info that I didn’t originally realise would help my case? I wasn’t sure whether I would be allowed to provide more than what had been provided to the adjudicator? After reading points the adjudicator made in their final response I feel I can send more evidence of expenditure in the form of utility bills ect.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you can supply as much evidence as you want. If you are supplying a lot , do a list which says “attachment 1 – energy bill 2019, shows arrears, attachment 2, etc
Chloe S says
Hi Sara, I eventually received a reply from the adjudicator for my Halifax claim and this was the reply to putting things right and I don’t really understand it
How to put things right:
As I don’t think Halifax should have increased Mrs S credit limit above £4,800, I don’t think it’s fair for it to charge any interest or charges on any balances which exceeded that limit. However, Mrs S has had the benefit of all the money they spent on the account so I think they should pay this back. Therefore, Halifax should:
Rework the account removing all interest, fees, charges, and insurances (not already refunded) that have been applied to balances above £4,800 after 3 December 2015.
If the rework results in a credit balance, this should be refunded to Mrs. S along with 8% simple interest per year* calculated from the date of each overpayment to the date of settlement. Halifax should also remove all adverse information recorded after 3 December 2015 regarding this account from Mrs. S credit file.
Or, if after the rework the outstanding balance still exceeds £4,050, Halifax should arrange an affordable repayment plan with Mrs. S for the remaining amount. Once Mrs. S has cleared the outstanding balance, any adverse information recorded after 3 December 2015 in relation to the account should be removed from their credit file.
Thanks
My opening credit was £2300 in Feb 2011, increased to £4050 in August 2013 and then to £4800 in December 2015. It never went above £4800 so does this mean I will receive no refund?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes.
Go back to the adjudicator and say that at December 2015 you financial situation was so difficult that Halifax should have offered to help you by freezing interest, not increased your limit.
So you would like a refund of all interest from that point.
Chloe S says
Thanks Sara, I had hoped it was a typo and that it should read £4050 rather than £4800 as the first sentence doesn’t make sense to me – they don’t think they should have increased my limit above £4800 but they never did increase it over that.
Also further down it talks about reworks and if my balance still exceeds £4050, with the 2 different figures I was confused.
They have bank statements back to Jan 2014 and in the letter they say –
Chloe S says
Second credit limit increase:
The credit limit increase occurred on 3 December 2015, when the limit was increased to £4,800. As per the account opening and first credit limit increase, Halifax haven’t been able to provide any supporting evidence to support this initial lending decision.
As part of my review into the complaint, Mrs S was able to provide copies of her bank statements from the time of the second credit limit increase on her account. I think it would have been proportionate for Halifax to have verified Mrs S financial circumstances such as by requesting copies of their bank statements.
I’ve reviewed three months of bank statements leading up to the lending decision to better understand her financial position. The statements show that Mrs S did have a high level of income coming into her account but that her committed expenditure was significantly high and would see her account repeatedly overdrawn consistently by around £3,000 – £4,000 each month. I believe that this demonstrates that Mrs S didn’t have enough disposable income to sustainably afford the additional credit limit increase upon her account.
So do I just go back and say I don’t agree with this decision and if necessary have it escalated to the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok that does sound like a typo. Poin5 that out to the adjudicator. But a refund of over 4050 is still likely to be very small, so I think you should say you dont Agree and it should be a full refund from that point.
Have you also made a complaint about the overdraft?
Chloe S says
Yes I made a complaint about the overdraft to the bank in August and had no response, I referred to the ombudsman and they contacted Santander who then contacted me so I have to wait another 8 weeks while they look into my complaint. I am going to go back to the adjudicator of my Halifax complaint and say I don’t agree. It’s a pity the adjudicator for my Barclaycard complaints didn’t assess the banks statements the same way as the Halifax adjudicator did.