UPDATE On 4 August 2021 the Scheme was approved in court.
See Provident Scheme – 4 million people can now claim a refund to find out how it will work and how to make a claim.
This article gives the background to the Scheme and what happened before voting started.
In March 2021 Provident Financial Group (PFG) proposed a Scheme of Arrangement to reduce the refunds it has to pay to customers. They are the second major lender to seek refuge in a Scheme after the pandemic – Amigo is also proposing one.
The PFG announcement also said that the FCA has started an investigation into Provident’s affordability assessments and complaint handling since February 2020.
PFG says it can’t carry on paying refunds to customers winning affordability complaints about Provident Home Credit loans and Satsuma payday loans. The Financial Ombudsman (FOS) has been upholding 75% of these complaints against Provident;
If the Scheme is not approved, PFG says it is likely that Provident Person Credit Ltd (PPC) which operates the Provident Home Credit and Satsuma brands will go into administration which would mean no cash refunds for customers. In administration, however customers with a current loan would be entitled to balance reductions or write-offs if their claim is upheld.
PFG has two other divisions which will not be affected by the Scheme. Vanquis Bank is best known as a credit card lender. Moneybarn provides high cost car finance.
Outline of the Scheme
PFG has operated Provident Home Credit, Greenwood Home Credit (a small brand no longer used), Satsuma payday lending and Glo guarantor lending (a small brand no longer used) through its PPC subsidiary.
PFG is proposing the Scheme for all these four brands. It wants its PPC subsidiary to be able to carry on in business with new lending products. It has not given any details of these new products.
The Practice Statement Letter (PSL) gives an overview of the proposed Scheme, which will limit the refunds PFG has to pay to Provident Home Credit and Satsuma customers payday loan customers. FOS fees will also be included within the Scheme.
Provident is proposing to put aside £50 million to pay cash refunds in the Scheme. It says customers may get paid 10% of their proper refund. I think 10% is too optimistic, see Provident’s Scheme – will customers get less than 2% ?
The first court hearing for the Scheme on 22 April 2021 approved the voting arrangements. Voting started on 17 May, see Provident Scheme to limit refunds – how to vote on it for details.
Background to the Scheme
Provident started offering Home Credit, also known as doorstep loans, in 1880. It is the dominant lender in this sector of the UK bad credit market.
PFG’s problems began back in 2017 when it reorganised its doorstep lending operation. This went badly wrong with big software problems and sharp drops in the number of debt repayments being collected and in new loans being made, see Provident – home credit crisis for details.
PFG hoped 2020 would be the year home credit returned to profitability. But this plan was derailed by three factors.
1) The pandemic
The pandemic created major problems for all bad credit lenders as the 6-month payment breaks impacted on cash flow and made it hard to assess the numbers of loans that were likely to default.
Provident Home Credit faced additional problems as doorstep collection of weekly repayments was difficult or impossible for much of 2020. Satsuma stopped lending at the start of the first lockdown and Provident tightened its lending criteria, resulting in fewer loans being given.
2) Increasing numbers of affordability complaints in 2020
Many borrowers have had Provident loans continuously for very long periods, often increasing in size – five years is common, ten years is not unusual. An initial smallish doorstep loan often left the borrower too short of money to manage, so the loan was refinanced or another loan was taken. Too many collection agents tended to offer new loans rather than payment arrangements when a borrower was in difficulty.
When Provident loses an affordability complaint it has to refund the interest paid. Where there has been long-term borrowing, these affordability refunds can be very large.
Complaint numbers increased significantly in 2020 as several claims management companies started advertising on social media. The number of new complaints sent to FOS shows this:
Provident often made very poor offers to these complaints, and sent people cheques, hoping they would be so desperate for some money they would cash the cheque and not take their complaint to FOS.
3) Legal/regulatory environment
In March 2020 FOS published a key decision on a case where a customer had 12 loans between 2009 and 2015 upholding loans 4-12 as being unaffordable. FOS uses key decisions to set out in detail why it has made a decision.
In August 2020, the Kerrigan judgment found that a breach of the FCA’s CONC rules on affordability caused an unfair relationship and that a refund of interest paid would be an appropriate remedy. This judgment is in line with the approach FOS takes to affordability complaints.
The same month, the FCA’s Review of re-lending by high-cost lenders said:
We have significant concerns that repeat borrowing could be a strong indicator of a pattern of dependency on high-cost credit and levels of debt that are harmful to the customer.
Together FOS key decision, the Kerrigan judgment and the FCA re-lending review seem likely to have dashed any hopes Provident had that its doorstep lending could continue as it used to. In May 2020, Provident announced it was closing its doorstep lending operation completely.
Comments are now closed on this article. See the latest news about the Provident Scheme and add your comment there.
Anne wiebke Goodfellow says
I spoke to adjudicator I am on the priority list she had upheld 3 out 11 loans as three were before 2007 cant look at these
she upheld one for 1000 one for 500 in 2008 and one in 2013 for 500 how do I work out interest owed back to me prov have till april 1 to respond. was sent to them on Wednesday adjudicator told me as provident have agreed with fos they are paying out in upheld priority cases despite this weeks news re scheme so i am very very very lucky as waited since July 1st 2020 and adjudicator looked at case last week and made decision this week.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Thats good news for you.
Your adjudicator may have a lits of the loans and how much interest was paid on each – I can’t guess just from the loan size.
Anne Goodfellow says
hi sara
ive just received email re moneyshop misold loans they have upheld 14 loans from 2007 to 2019 saying nevshould have lent total.redress 10808 however they are in scheme of arrangement paying 4p in pound does this mean instead of getting 10808 thats figure after tax etc i will only get 436 pounds .im hopeless at maths and if that is the figure can i appeal to get the 10808
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no, you can only appeal if you think the 10808 figure was wrong, not because you are being a pathetically small proportion of it.
Andrew says
I phoned Provident Customer complaints dept yesterday morning.
A lady that answered the phone told me that they are NOT paying out anyone else who had claimed in person or through a claim firm.
She told me that they are going to the courts to either pay people less than 10% of what they owe to customers or go into Administration.
If people don’t like it……Tuff.
That’s Provident for you. And they own Vanquish etc
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That isn’t quite right. If you read the other comments here, a few people are getting paid in full if they have been on the ombudsman priority list.
But basically that is what the Scheme amounts to. Except I don’t think their numbers stack up… I think people would get less than 2%, unless Provident are planning on rejecting a lot of claims that the ombudsman would have upheld.
Provident Financial Group is not in any trouble – as you say they own Vanquis and also the Moneybarn car finance. They just want to walk away from their liabilities to Provident doorstep lending and Satsuma customer and offer them a few peanuts.
Andrew says
They should not be allowed to run and hide under the carpet.
They knew exactly what they were doing.
They run their other companies under the same umbrella.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I agree!
But legally they can do this.
The FCA should tell them it is not acceptable.
And indeed the FCA should not authorise a lender who does not have sufficient capital backing to be able to fund compensation.
Andrew says
Then the company should be made bankrupt and all its building etc sold.
Never to be allowed to open up in another name again.
Andrew says
Applied 6 months ago & just been pushed about by them saying they are giving my case Urgent attention.
What a load of crock…6 months & nothing
Discusting company. All of its companies should be made illigal & closed down.
Karen says
I’ve already had my refund back in December, does this apply to me ? I’ve had the email from Provident saying I need to vote.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you got a good result by going to FOS?
In theory you can put in another claim in the Scheme (if it goes ahead) but as you have had a good result it’s unlikely to work. It may help people who accepted a poor offer from Provident because they were desperate to bank that small cheque – in the Scheme they could get extra loans refunded but of course they will probably only get a tiny amount of that refund back.
So you don’t have to vote and can ignore the whole thing if you want.
Maria says
I put in a claim for irresponsible lending back in 2018 as I had countless provident loans throughout the years and was always renewing my loans I was offered a small settlement of a couple hundred which I reluctantly accepted which I now regret.I have emails now regarding the “Scheme of Arrangement”from Provident so where do I stand now?…Your advice would be much appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the Scheme goes ahead you will be able to put in a claim to it. If that decides that more loans were unaffordable, they will calculate the refund on those and subtract the small amount you have already had.
However you will then only receive a tiny amount of the extra money – the Provident examples uses the figure of 10% – by my figures (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/provident-scheme-tiny-refunds/) it could be less than 2%.
It is a shame you did not take your case to the Ombudsman back in 2018.
Amie says
I emaild provident again today got the same as yesterday they are still awaiting information to proceed. So I said back I don’t understand what the hold up could be. I paid all my loans non of them went to debt management so what is the delay. So the reply was they are currently awaiting the figures to be finalised as it’s all done automatically through their system. 🤷🏼♀️ And she has chases it up this morning. I think they are fed up of me now lol
Cj says
I also rang them this morning and was told practically the same ..they are awaiting for figure to be sorted..he did say we waiting for investigation to be completed and I asked what he meant by that..as provident had already agreed with the fos weeks ago..he rang through again and just said waiting for figures to be calculated and said it would be done in next couple weeks
Amie says
Are they late in giving you your breakdown figures? I’m on day 31 now obviously nothing will get done over the weekend. I might call them Monday see what’s going on. Complete nightmare isn’t it
Steven says
I complained to provident on 24/11/20 and never received any attempt at getting it resolved. I sent it to the ombudsman and it hadn’t been assigned to anyone yet. Given the fact Provident haven’t even attempted resolve this, is it likely they have deliberately done this knowing they were going to be trying to introduce the scheme? And is it likely they will just ignore it completely now? I submitted a DSAR and found I had taken out over 60 loans so was hoping to get something back.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Given the fact Provident haven’t even attempted resolve this, is it likely they have deliberately done this knowing they were going to be trying to introduce the scheme?
Possibly.
And is it likely they will just ignore it completely now?
yes I am afraid that is very likely
I submitted a DSAR and found I had taken out over 60 loans so was hoping to get something back.
well you still should but it will be a tiny amount compared to what your refund should have been
darrenR says
hello
i’ve had the email you refer to, I have kind of suffered in silence a little with Satsuma loans i had and i guess i fall into the classic customer as referred to- loans from 2015 (paid in full btw) but then 3 back to back, increasing in size, too short time etc. I had a default registered last year by them. But weirdly, it got passed to Moorcroft for recovery yet when i contacted them about repayment they said the case was no longer with them. So, who do i pay now? I dont mind paying its the default more than anything i want to have remedy against…..will these actions/settlements remove loans and therefore the defaults from credit scores as what has happened with others? Any advice appreciated and thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So if just the last loan is upheld, the inter3est is removed from it so you only have to repay what you borrowed. And the default should be removed from your credit record.
I would wait until they contact you. And you don’t want to pay more than you borrowed, otherwise you will only get a tiny bit of the extra back at the end.
DarrenR says
thank you so much for a prompt and informative reply!! Please may i ask one more thing? You say about only repaying what was actually borrowed (makes sense now, hadn’t thought about that). If i chose to proactively contact them, do you think they would come to the same conclusions as you are and act on it to the same outcome if i offer to pay that or, is it a case of allowing this “due process” to take place that will ultimately result in my favour as you suggest? I’d have no issue paying the “loaned amount” if they take care of the default etc. getting rid of that sooner rather than later would be my preferred result. Many thanks))
David says
I had the fos uphold my complaint against satsuma last year the adjudicator told them to wipe off the interest which they have but he also said they should write off any capital aswell. I’ve checked my credit file and there is still a balance showing but it’s says no missed payments and I’ve had no contact from them about it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds like an unusual decision – why did FOS say that? Did Satsuma accept the decision?
do you mind copy/pasting the decision in here? I’m wondering if Satsuma misunderstood it.
Cazza says
My claim has been with the FOS since late October last year, how do they determine who is priority.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
priority tends to go to people who are vulnerable for some reason, eg health problems or facing eviction.
David says
B) You should calculate 8% simple interest* on the individual payments made by Mr A which were considered as part of “A”, calculated from the date Mr A originally made the payments, to the date the complaint is settled.
C) You should remove all interest, fees and charges from the balance on any upheld outstanding loans, and treat any repayments made by Mr A as though they had been repayments of the principal on all outstanding loans. If this results in Mr A having made overpayments then you should refund these overpayments with 8% simple interest* calculated on the overpayments, from the date the overpayments would have arisen, to the date the complaint is settled. You should then refund the amounts calculated in “A” and “B” and move to step “E”.
D) If there is still an outstanding balance then the amounts calculated in “A” and “B” should be used to repay any balance remaining on outstanding loans and any principal written-off under a redress scheme. If this results in a surplus then the surplus should be paid to Mr A. However if there is still an outstanding balance then you should try to agree an affordable repayment plan with Mr A.
E) You should remove any adverse information you have recorded on Mr A’s credit file
in relation to loan 3.
Hope I haven’t misunderstood it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The important bit is (D). That is pretty opaque language but I think you may have misunderstood it.
The reference to “principal written off under a redress scheme” is odd but It does NOT say that the principal should be written off here. It is a clause that is only intended to apply where there has been some previous write off, which there hasn’t in your case… so it is irrelevant for you.
If the adjudicator had intended the balance to be cleared they would not have said “However if there is still an outstanding balance then you should try to agree an affordable repayment plan with Mr A.”
If you go back to your adjudicator they will be able to clarify this for you.
Sorry.
David says
Ok thanks. I better get on to them to arrange a payment plan. Its strange how they haven’t chased me for it though
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes. Don’t offer more than you can afford but it would be good to get this one closed on your credit record.
Margaret Dunsmore says
This is appauling……the customers who had no other options available to them to borrow money are getting shafted again…..surly the government need to step in and freeze all assets and pay the poorest people in society who have to rely on these companies get what they are entitled to……..pathetic
Andrew says
Hopefully they will close this company down & sell all its assets including Vanquish & Money Barn.
Issy says
If the majority decide not to vote on the scheme how come provident goes into administration when they have several other companies belonging to them will they also go into administration?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Provident Financial Group, the parent company, is proposing to only put the subsidiary that operates Provident doorstep lending and Satsuma into administration. Vanquis and Money barn are in other subsidiaries and will be unaffected.
Legal? yes.
Ethical? No, it stinks.
Also, why did the FCA allow all this lending to be done from a subsidiary that was not adequately capitalised to be able to pay redress?
Lorraine says
I made a claim through a solicitor approx 2 weeks ago. Am I to late in doing this ? I’m guessing I will have to go through the scheme. These schemes are robbing innocent people of what they are owed.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes it is very likely your claim will have to go through the scheme if the Scheme goes ahead.
Do you still owe any money?
Lorraine says
No I’ve cleared all my provident loans. I had loans with them for about 25 years if not longer.
Issy says
Hi Sara , what’s happens to claims that are already with the ombudsman for months waiting for a case handler ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the Ombudsman is pausing working on all Provident complaints. I hope some priority cases will still go through but all the rest will be returned to Provident if the scheme goes ahead or to the administrators if it doesn’t.
Do you still owe a balance?
Issy says
Hi Sara yes I do but the last 2 loans are currently in my Iva I had 10 loans in total the other 8 were fully repaid
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ah bad news. If you are in an IVA the refund will go to your IVA firm not to you. This probably isn’t worth thinking about any more.
Chris says
Hi. I complained 6 months ago and after loads of chasing I finally received a cheque today (sat) for just under £3000. I’m worried now though cos I can’t pay it in til Monday. Will it clear or have they stopped it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It will clear. No one has reported any problems.
Mandy says
We started a complaint back in May which went to the ombudsman which went in our favour. Received a breakdown on Wednesday via email after sending an email to chase it up. Nice cheque for over £16k turned up yesterday. Good luck to those on waiting for a breakdown/cheque
Jade says
Wow that’s amazing. Congrats! How long did you wait for your breakdown? X
Mandy says
It was slightly over the 30days. Received breakdown Wednesday via email and cheque arrived Saturday
Amie says
That’s brilliant! I’m still waiting for my breakdown day 32! they are annoying me now!! Who did you email Mandy if you don’t mind me asking. Some woman emails me back saying the same old stuff about needing more info. Congrats on your claim x
Mandy says
It was a tom.jeffery@provident.co.uk that we emailed about 9.30pm in the evening he came back with a reply straight away that he would check it out for us. Then following day we had the breakdown. Good luck
Amie says
I also emailed him but Iv got a Sarah messaging me as part of the FOS complaints team 🤷🏼♀️. I will call them tomorrow and see what’s happening. Thank you
Delyth says
Everyone, check your junk email. I recieved an email from provident this morning in relation to their ‘Provident SPV Limited Scheme of Arrangement’.
You have to register.
Mandy says
It was a tom.jeffery@provident.co.uk that we emailed about 9.30pm in the evening he came back with a reply straight away that he would check it out for us. Then following day we had the breakdown. Good luck
Amie says
I have emailed him just now, hopefully he picks it up first thing. I don’t know why he didn’t rely directly to me. We shall see
Chan says
Hi there I recieved messages from ombudsman on the 4/3/21 stating profident agreed with them an would pay out in full plus 8% from loans 3-20 an I just need to wait for breakdown an cheque still heard nothing as yet , but what’s the likelihood of this happening now with all this new stuff an profident going to court ? Do you think il still get paid after they agreed with ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As they accepted the FOS decision they should now pay you in full. Anxious times until they do!
Chantelle says
Thankyou fingers crossed 🤞 but I’m not very hopeful it’s hard times again an a longer waiting game again it seems
Shaun says
My claim has been with the Ombudsman since December , unfortunately i went with a claims company . Not heard a thing since . The original claim was made May 2020 . Cant get hold of claim company , no one manning the phones and not getting any responses from email . I still owe big money as been unable to make full weekly payments for 12 months . Where do i stand now please ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large was the current loan and how much have you paid to it so far?
How many other loans did you have from them before this one?
Do you have other problem debts as well?
Shaun says
the current loan was £2040 , with interest it was £4879.68.This loan stands around £2500 owing . I have another for £750 with interest £1579.50 . This loan has £8.72 left .I was awarded £230 from provident when i made my claim . I refused and referred to the ombudsman . I have had 9 loans in total .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so do you have a cheque for £230 at the moment?
“the current loan was £2040, with interest it was £4879.68. This loan stands around £2500 owing “
so you have repaid more than you borrowed on this one. And the on the £750 loan.
This means that if these and any of the previous 7 loans are upheld, they will be owing you money.
Your credit record is presumably already showing missed payments or a payment arrangement? Or even a default? All negative marks will be removed if you win your claim.
Here it’s usually best to stop paying them anything and wait for your claims to be determined. In the Scheme or in Administration. Any money you pay from here on, you are likely to only get a tiny percentage back from.
Shaun says
No i dont have a cheque , they took the money off my smaller loan , without my consent .
I,m currently on a reduced payment scheme with them , paying only £5 a week . As for my experian credit report the loans dont show on it , not sure why ?
I pay this online but still get bombarded by agents calls , never my original agent either. They dont send letters but have had one agent turn up at the house during lockdown . My partner is disabled and vulnerable , Provident know this as well .
I,m really annoyed that my claim took so long to be picked up by FOS . Was hoping to get it settled month’s ago.
If i stop paying will this just make my credit file worse ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well have a look at Equifax and TransUnion – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/ for how to do this.
Shaun says
They appear on Transunion as both up to date no defaults . Loan 1 has 2,396 and loan 2 has a balance of just £2 . If i stop paying all together will they default me ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, but the defaults will be removed if you win your complaint in a Scheme or in administration.
Andrew says
I phoned Provident this morning to be told my claim and all claims are being put into this so called Scheme.
I asked why were cheques being sent out still in payments of what’s owed. I was told they must be historical.
Amie says
Provident are honouring the ones who they have already agreed with adjudicator findings.
Sam says
Just some advice regarding provident they agreed with the fos on the 15th of March that 19 loans shouldn’t have been given and on Thursday I got an email from Neil at provident with my redress and that a cheque was on its way so hopefully them who are still waiting get there payout before the scheme goes ahead so thankyou Sara if it wasn’t for this site I wouldn’t have know about it thanks
Cj says
Mine agreed in 3rd march and I’m still waiting for breakdown of redress
Amie says
They ain’t rushing the older cases by the looks of it I’m also still waiting
Amie says
That was quick! . I’m still waiting! on day 33 now it’s so annoying. Should have it this week “apparently” we shall see. Congrats on your claim
Diane says
I fully agree for you to look into wat ever u need.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Diane,
this website just gives you information about what is happening. The article above explains that there is nothing you need to do right now if you want to make a claim for unaffordable lending to Provident.
Do you still owe them any money?
Amie says
So Iv chased provident again this morning as I am now on day 33 and still no breakdown or cheque. They sent an email saying they have now made my case priority and will be in contact once my figures are available. They she said I will hear from them by the end of the week of not sooner. Anyone else had anything like this and actually herd from them within the week?
Andrew says
I’m on day 176 And nothing.
I have put in a serious complaint
Sara (Debt Camel) says
176 days since when?
amie says
did provident agree with the ajudicators findings? because that is a long time to wait if they did
Andrew says
I am aware you have expressed your dissatisfaction with the proposed Scheme. However, I trust it has been made clear there will be no further developments with your case for the time being further to the proposals made.
I also appreciate you have expressed your dissatisfaction with the length of time you have waited for a response to your claim. I understand this will have been a source of frustration. I can confirm we have logged a separate case to address your concerns about the level of service you have received and we will get back to you about this.
You appear to have been given the impression that you are being treated differently to other customers. I can see how this would cause upset but I would like to assure you this is not the case. You have referred a number of times to posters on online forums receiving redress payments within 28 days of submitting a complaint. However, this is not something which is happening. The only redress payments currently being made in relation to irresponsible lending complaints are on cases which had already received an upheld outcome from the Financial Ombudsman Service prior to the proposal of the Scheme of Arrangement. There is a 28 day timescale for redress to be provided after the outcome was finalised on those cases, which I suspect may be behind the confusion here. However, cases in that situation would originally have been submitted much longer ago than 28 days ago.
Emma says
I didn’t even know any of this was happening untill last week i have had both greenwoods and provident loans dating from 2005 til 2019 i have spoken to a rep from provident who on 2 occasions gave me a false web page on 3rd occasion when i spoke to another rep she took all my details over the phone and basically was told to sit n wait
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Scheme was only announced last Monday. Before then, getting refunds was a little known secret. Unless you came across this website, or saw ads from claims companies on Facebook, you were unlikely to have heard about them unless one of your neighbours or friends ahd got a refund. And we Brits are so bad a talking about money, many people don’t like to share that they have had to borrow from the Provvi…
Leanna says
I had a number of doorstep loans with provident being one of them, I defaulted a long time ago and for whatever reason they decided to put it as settled on my credit file and paid in full. I presume its likely contributed to this and they were obviously doing shady business.
Do these claims only relate to provident or can you make claims against other door step lenders? As I had a dodgy one from shoppercheck I think it was called.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
for whatever reason they decided to put it as settled on my credit file and paid in full
odd!
The claims can be made against any lender, not just doorstep, where the credit was unaffordable. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refund-doorstep-loans/ for how to complain but Shopacheck loans are pretty old and they were taken over by Morses who often don’t seem to have the loan info, so these can be harder to win.
Andrew says
My parents used to have an £800 loan every year at Christmas from the early 80s til the 90s, will they not be entitled to claim?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no, these claims only became possible after new legislation in April 2007.
Steve says
I currently have a case waiting to be picked up by an adjudicator at the FOS, this has been from December. What will this mean for my case then? On hold now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FOS is pausing working on these complaints. Nothing is likely to happen. If Provident set up their Scheme, your case will be returned to Provident to determine in the Scheme. If they go into administration, your case will be returned to the adminsitrators.
Do you still owe Provident any money?
Steve says
No I don’t owe them anything.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then there is nothing to do now but wait.
Tony says
Hi
I have had several loans from them from 2011 up to about 2015. I couldn’t really afford to pay them but the agent just topped them up at the drop of a hat. It wasn’t massive amounts maybe 2 or 3k in total. They were sold on to the likes of Lowell. I sorted myself out financially got my credit rating up and now it’s happy days. They have all since been satisfied. Am I likely to get anything back from the Scheme?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A lot of top ups normally means you would have had a good case at the Ombudsman. But we don’t yet know how Provident will be deciding claims. As I explain in https://debtcamel.co.uk/provident-scheme-tiny-refunds/, it may be that provident are planning on only upholding a lot fewer claims than the Ombudsman would. So I can’t say how likely it is you would get anything back.
Gheri says
Hi Sara
I had 2 loans with satsuma in 2018-2019 and I complained for unaffordable lending on both which went to FOS adjudicator. The FOS adjudicator upheld loan 2 but not loan 1, and Satsuma agreed with the adjudicator’s decision.
I disagreed and asked for Ombudsman review, but the Ombudsman also agreed with the adjudicator’s decision only to uphold loan 2. I have now till 1 April to agree or not agree with Ombudsman verdict.
Now with this scheme, should I agree with Ombudsman decision? Or should I wait for scheme and see if both loan 2 and loan 1 can be pulled through a favourable decision?
Thanks
Gheri
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Will you be getting a cash refund for the second loan? or just a balance reduction?
Gheri says
I am getting a balance reduction for second loan, and after paying the balance, the loan will be removed from my credit file.
The first loan will stay on my file as a defaulted loan for 6 years, which I am not happy about.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So there are no guarantees here, but I think the chance of getting both loans upheld in the Scheme if the Ombudsman only upheld one is very very small.
But I think you can accept this decisions and still make a claim in the Scheme. If you read sections 4 & 5 of the Practice Statement Letter you are not excluded from making a claim because you have accepted a FOS decision so far as i can see.
So the best thing may be to accept the FOS decision and then plan to make a claim on the Scheme.
The worst case would be to reject the FOS decision and then make a claim on the Scheme and have it not upheld for eaither loan. That is (hopefully) very unlikely, but isn’t it better to “bank” the decison to uphold the second loan now?
Issy says
Has anyone recieved their email from Provident telling them what they intent doing as regards to the scheme of arrangement?I got mine earlier
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, these emails have been going out for a few days. The article above summarises what it means for you.
Do you currently have a loan from Provident?
Amie says
Yes I received one today too and they have honoured my claim as it was finalised before the cut off date. However, they are dragging their feet providing breakdown/cheque! so I was a bit surprised when I received the email.
Cj says
I got email also and am still awaiting breakdown and cheque..I was under the impression regardless where you are with claim everyone got this email or will get a letter… my account is still showing a balance of 300 I’ve sent emails now to complaints dept Tom Jeffries and Neil but have not received a reply from anyone .I’ve read on here some people are ringing and getting their breakdowns by email when I spoke to them the other day they just said still being looked at…I’m on day 20 now ..so frustrated with it ..I’m just hoping they keep to their word and pay out on all claims agreed before the 15th as promoised
Amie says
Mate it’s a complete nightmare. They have told me today that my claim is now priority and I will hear something the end of the week if not sooner! Day 33 it’s a joke really when people are receiving their redress at day 10 and day 15.
chris says
Yes I got one today. I’m lucky in that I received a Provident redress payout last year but I have still got loans with Satsuma so I will register and vote for the scheme – nothing to lose either way.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
well that depends. If you have outstanding loans the really important question is not how large the payout might be but whether your complaint will be upheld so the remaining balance is written off. Until we know more about how Provident will uphold these cases, it is possible that you could be better off in administration where the administrators would be likely to try to follow an approximation to what FOS would decide.
Clifford says
Hi sarah,
I have a complaint but adjudicator hasnt been instructed I have £21000 in interest I have paid is it likely you will not get back all the interest you paid under the proposed scheme?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am afraid you are likely to only get a tiny percentage. Provident used 10% in their “illustrative examples” but I think it could be as low as 2%… see https://debtcamel.co.uk/provident-scheme-tiny-refunds/
do you still owe them any money?
Clifford says
No so I may only get at a maximum 2000 of the interest paid best case?
How is this fair? Surely the FCA should be able to honour the complaints already with them?
Also how can they not make them dip into the other two companies funds to payout.
Is there any legal route you can take as a consumer?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No so I may only get at a maximum 2000 of the interest paid best case?
On some numbers I looked at, it would be 2%…
How is this fair?
it isn’t! This is not a company that is short of money. They are using a legal loophole to try to walk away from paying their customers proper compensation. After they did not handle the complaint properly either.
Surely the FCA should be able to honour the complaints already with them?
The FCA can say this sort of Scheme is not acceptable.
how can they not make them dip into the other two companies funds to payout.
legally Provident can choose to dump this subsidiary in to administration. But the FCA could be saying clearly this is not how they expect an authorised firm to behave…
Is there any legal route you can take as a consumer?
No. Well only to vote against the Scheme in protest and in hope the board will be shamed into proposing something fairer.
Clifford says
Personally I think we need to make a stand, surely as a financially organization there has to be someone accountable, the complaints process has been no existent and the board members of provident are the same for the other two companies therefore could have a knock on effect. Fines to be handed out and surely the FCA has to be accountable as complaint procedures have been nothing short or shocking also I would be keen to know if provident and the two other companies have claimed furlough as they are claiming massive losses but if furlough has been paid how is this the case there needs to be a protest organised people are going to lose thousands and provident need to pay for this
Clifford says
Let’s start a petition and get this raised in the house and also get a protest the more.media pressure for these the better
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you want MPs to talk about this, email your MP – that works a LOT better than just signing a petition.
Issy says
I agree they shouldn’t be allowed
Clifford says
Hi all,
I ask you all not to vote for the scheme, I have wrote to my MP and head of FCA along with Kevin Peachey of the BBC, Sarah we need you to head this up for us contact as many people as you know and make a real stand this is a hit and run by PFG and unless we get together they are going to get away with it we need to come together, PFG have bled the most vulnerable in society for years and in most cases the poorest in society and caused financial ruin and hardship for many people and families without a care in the World it’s time for them to pay. Sarah please write to kevin ask him to raise this and take it further this is a real story and could easily take off the Provident Scheme Scandal.
Issy says
I’m not voting there not bullying me into doing something for Their benefit everyone should do the same I’m behind you on this 👍🏽
Clifford says
VOTE NO that’s the only way they wont win
Andrew says
I will be voting against Provident. They have been doing wrong for many years. Picking on the vunrable & poor In the UK. Put many people in a terrible financial position. I was speaking to the ex Manager of the Swansea branch & she said she could tell me some story’s over her 20 years working for them
Staci says
Where do u vote against?
I wrote to the mp- its disgrace companies can do this who have all this money and their hands in other companies eg moneybarn
If we owned extra money we would have been expected to pay!
Disgusting
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can’t vote yet! First this is to get through the First Court hearing. See the article above which explains the timetable and when things happen.
Cj says
So I managed to speak to customer relations dept this morning they said to me that it was still being worked one and that their decision was not final.i explained and read email from fos stating that provident had agreed with their finding and agreed to pay redress online with what fos had said..she then said that was ok and that she would get them to email with an update ..but she did say that I would be paid in full as they had agreed with fos before the 15th.so now just got to.wait..I will be so much happier when sorted
Amie says
Iv had an email today saying my figures have been sent to management for approval and once that is done she will make necessary amendments then send the figures to me. I ask how long that would take and what other amendments need doing? Still waiting on the reply.
I’m thinking other amendments may be the credit file or the 20% that has to be taken off simple interest god knows.
Paulina says
Hi have a question about complaining to provident. I want to make a complaint to them, and I do not have the paperwork, so I can’t quite remember how many loans I exactly I took. However I do know that i took loans to help my husband afford the repayments of his provident loans. he then had about three loans when the agent suggested i take one in my name to help him afford repayments. So we might have had 8 loans between us, but he probably had 5 and i had 3. do you think we would still be able to claim compensation?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the Scheme goes ahead, anyone can put in a Claim. There aren’t any details at the moment about how Provident will decide whether to uphold these claims or not.
Amie says
Guys I have an update 👀👀👀👀 I have just received my breakdown. It is now day 34 and after emails being sent and phone calls being made and provident making my case a priority yesterday. Today I received figures, to those of you who are entitled to your redress keep ringing and emailing if they have not sorted it within 28 days they will eventually do it. Now the patient wait for the cheque.
Margaret says
By day 34 do you mean since you submitted your complaint or since you contacted FOS?
Amie says
My complaint has been ongoing since June last year. It went to the FOS September last year and was assigned an adjudicator in January this year. Provident agreed with the adjudicators findings on the 17th February they had 28 to sort the breakdown and cheque but it’s taken 34 days.
Cj says
Fingers crossed the dont have to wait too long for the cheque. Good news for you though..will defo keep on at them though
Amie says
Just hope the cheque comes and when it is pains in it don’t bounce 😂😂😂. I’ll let you know. Hopefully they sort you out soon
Jade Brown says
Received my breakdown this afternoon too! Chased them every day and I’m only on day 16. So definitely worth chasing them x
Linda says
Just to let you know I waited 10 days for my cheque came today in bank hopefully clear tomorrow everything crossed for you
Amie says
Any luck with your breakdown?
Jade says
Have you received your check Amie? Awful waiting!
Amie says
Hi lovely, no not yet I only had the breakdown Tuesday so I didn’t expect to get it just yet. Hopefully next week though. Have you received yours?
Siobhan says
I had seven loans, all over lapping, I was refunded for loans 3, 4 & 5. Is it worth me signing up to this? Mine was sorted by FOS.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can’t sign up now. I can’t see any harm in putting in a new claim, but I don’t know how likely it is to be an improvement on the FOS decision.
Terri says
I’ve had my breakdown emailed this morning after the accepted the fos decision on 12th March x
Leanne moore says
Did you have to keep chasing it up? They accepted the ombudsman’s decision on the 2nd March and I’ve yet to receive my breakdown. I was told it would be sorted by last week and now they’re saying they’ve not even started to work the calculations out yet. What’s the best email address to contact them on, does anyone know please?
Terri says
I spoke to someone on the phone and also emailed, they replied from this email address a few days ago to say they were working by case date FOS.Complaints@provident.co.uk
Amie says
Keep on at them, I had to email every day and call them
Leanne moore says
I emailed the CEO this morning lol. Within the hour I had a reply detailing my breakdown and telling me there’s a letter in the post for me, the cheque will also arrive within 14 days!
Ann W says
I’ve had a loan with provident (Glo) and still owe £1700 but have paid back more than what I borrowed. I made an affordablilty complaint last April and it was rejected so I escalated to FOS in May. It has still not been allocated to anyone. I know this means I will enter the scheme. I just don’t want to give them anymore money now and unsure what to do. I do not want to negatively effect my guarantor.
I have asked for a 3 month payment holiday which would take me to July but unsure how to proceed. I can’t cope with giving them money every month to then get 2-4% back after this scheme happens.
I would be so grateful for any advice please.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Getting a COVID-19 payment deferral now is a good idea as they can’t ask your guarantor to pay during it. Things will be clearer on the Scheme in July, so you can think then what to do?
One option is then to explain to your guarantor that you have made a complaint and if it is upheld they should be released as guarantor and also explain why you don’t want to pay any more money as you would get very little of it back.
Laura says
I have just received the below email from provident, I’d asked for an update as the FOS found that I should be owed around £1500 do you think I’ll still receive this money from provident?
We replied to the FOS on the 12.3.21 agreeing with the FOS decision. We review cases in date order and we are aiming to have your case reviewed within the next week, we will be in touch at this point when we review the case.
I hope this helps
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As Provident have accepted the FOS decision they should pay out in full before the Scheme. Fingers crossed!
Terri says
Mine was accepted the same day, I’ve received my breakdown this morning. Fingers crossed it won’t be long until you get yours
Laura says
Fingers crossed! The FOS told me they hadn’t heard anything so I’m a bit dubious but will see!
Sara stone says
Hi,
I have had a final offer from provident and sent this to the financial ombudsman. The ombudsman have accepted my complaint and this has been ongoing since last year. With the proposed scheme will the ombudsman agree they should make a fair offer or will I fall into the new scheme?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think the Ombudsman has stopped work on these cases. It is likely your case will be returned to Pprovident to be decided in the Scheme – not good news as they already made one poor decision on your case.
Do you currently have a cheque from them?
S says
Yes I cashed this. It seems unfair as waited a long time to get a final letter off them. I feel offers were drawn out because they knew it was heading this way!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
good – I was going to say cash it now!
Cj says
Still trying to chase them today I’ve emailed and tried ringing ..after 20 mins on hold it just goes quiet so I try again and same …..what email addresses are people using
Amie says
Any joy with provident providing your breakdown?
Cj says
Finally received it today from neil.now 14 day wait for cheque
Amie says
Great stuff!!! I’m
Hoping the cheque comes next week 🤞🏻
Leanne moore says
I emailed this address Malcolm.lemay@providentfinancial.com. Got a reply within the hour detailing my breakdown.
M says
Received a letter today explaining that I may have been given loans that were unaffordable (which is right) years ago. Interestingly it states that if people do not sign up for the scheme they’ll get nothing with the company going into insolvency. I would rather this company and others like it go down than accept some stupid % of my true compensation. It’s a shame that courts are not trying to find a way to help the vulnerable people get their full compensation instead of trying to find ways of saving these companies.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, I think people may get as little as 2% – stupid indeed.
I think these lenders think their customers are all desperate for any scraps – but who knows, a lot of people may like you say that what is being proposed is simply wrong.
You will be entitled to vote on the Scheme that Provident is putting forward.
Julie says
iv has been on with provident and greenwoods
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Julie,
have you had one of these letters or emails from Provident? There is an FAQ section in the article above that tries to answer a lot of people’s questions.
Joseph Saunders says
Hi My mum, late father and brother have all had loans from provident and greenwood and none of them where asked any affordability questions or prove of income my mum and brother both have server leaning difficulties and have no understanding of finance I have taken over there affairs has there legal appointees my father passed away in october and I know he had loans from both these companies for many years even doe they knew he couldn’t afford them, My mum on the other never had a recognised income as my dad claimed for her, my brother as mental health issues and cannot read and write. What is the best option for me to contest all of there loans and fight for them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There isn’t anything you need to do at the moment. If the Scheme goes ahead, then at that point I think you need to contact Provident, explain the situation and ask for help to submit these claims. I am afraid you are only going to get a very small percentage back.
Clifford says
Vote no everyone if they go insolvent so be it as the FCA will no doubt have questions to answer
John says
Hi Sara. I put a claim in for my mom. I sent it too the ombudsman who said my moms will be entitled to get loans 6 to 41 back off provident. They have agreed this themselves too. So just waiting for the cheque now. With this new thing provident are trying to bring out does my mom still get the money the original amount of money that was agreed between them ourselves. And provident ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If Provident accepted an adjudicator decision, then they should pay out in full and your mum should not be caught up in the scheme.
Michael Evans says
All the satsuma loans that I got were basically 100% interest, borrow £100 pay back £200, I must have had thousands in loans.. Should I make a claim now or wait and see what occurs in the courts? I’ll take anything at the moment, I’m forced to shield at the moment during lockdown, so have hardly been to work in the past year. And my reward for keeping away from intensive care is £74 per week ESA. To replace my HGV drivers wage..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you claim now, it is very unlikely your complaint will be lloked at.
Do you still owe Satsuma any money?
what is the rest of your debt situation like?
Laura says
On 11.03.21 the FOS decided that I am owed redress, today was meant to be the cut off for provident to come back with a decision. I received this from the FOS today
Ordinarily if a business does not respond to our our assessment it would be sent to an Ombudsman for a final decision. However, as Provident are entering a scheme of arrangement we are currently unable to progress cases against them.
As discussed, as I had already sent a view on your case prior to Provident announcing the scheme we are currently in contact with them to see if your complaint will be included in the scheme or whether they are happy to settle as per my recommendations. I will come back to you as soon a I have an update.
I have tried contacting provident with no answers.
Andrew says
As Provident have ignored customers on perpose for months & let alot of customers who should of gained full redress.
I advise everyone to VOTE AGAINST them going into a scheme. As we will receive Pennies. I would rather they are put into Administration as see them close & have to sell off their Head Office which is Freehold.
All Provident staff will lose their jobs. But who cares, they didn’t care enough about its customers to pay them what was due.
They are trying this Scheme on purpose to pay the minimum that they legally can.
VOTE – NO & let’s see them go under.
Tyrone R says
100% agree with you. I will also be voting against their so-called scheme. I advise others to do the same.
Andrew says
Let’s gets loads of us going to vote No!
Martin says
Hi Andrew,
I fully appreciate your point of view. Their practices have been in question for a considerable amount of time and shouldn’t be in business. Personally my dealings with them have been terrible. They threw out my unaffordable lending complaint on two loans I had with them. They never should have lent to me I was in considerable debt at the time. Regretfully due to my state of mind of time I didn’t go to the FOS then within 6 months. They have ruined my credit file additionally as they didn’t default my loans within 3-6months as the ICO advises and just kept marking it with late payments for another 2 years after it should have been defaulted.
I have appealed the credit file marking to Satsuma again they disagreed of course but this time I went to the FOS and they sided initially with Satsuma!!I have asked another Ombudsman to look into it who will hopefully side with me. Absolute nightmare!!
Martin says
Sara am I correct in assuming if payments haven’t been made as per the original contractual agreement a default should be placed between 3-6 months on the credit file in respect of a loan?
frank says
Hi, my wife has had several loans from provident, before they were paid off provident pushed for further loans of higher value. Shes on benefits.she is paying paying provident about £40 a week at minute and owes about £400 to them. We got letter from provident about the vote today, but we enquired about Ingram toft doing a no win no fee. Can wife stop paying provident now? Do we put claim in with Ingram toft or vote for provident redress which could be just 2% of payout?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your description of your wife’s case sounds like a complaint worth making.
There is NO benefit to using any claims company here. Putting in a claim to Provident in the Scheme will be very easy, just filling ont a simple form. A claims company will add nothing to the process and will take a large amount of any refund.
Yes the refund is likely to be small in the Scheme but a claims company would still take its high percentage of that, just for filling out a claim form which will be dead easy to do.
If your wife’s claim is upheld, then she will be MUCH better off if she stops paying them now.
– Say her refund is assessed at £700 (I just made that up, I have no idea) and that provident eventually pay out 5% (again I invented that, I suspect it may be less)
– If she stops paying them now, she will get the 400 she owes cleared with the £700 refund, leaving her to get the remaining £300 paid at 5%, so she would get £15 in cash.
– If she carries on paying them £40 a week she will have cleared it by the time the refund is paid. So she will then get 5% of £700 = £35 but had paid £400, so she is worse off by £365
If she stops paying now it will harm her credit record, but all the negative marks will be removed if she wins her case. That is the only risk in stopping paying.
On benefits it must be hard to pay £40 a week? If it is she should really stop. Provident doesn’t add on any interest if she does,
frank says
Wife has already signed up to claims company, who take 25% she thought this is better, getting 75% than getting 2% from provident. It’s a bit tight on benefits paying £40 a week. Shes worried about a default on her credit file if she doesnt pay at min. If she told them she is struggling and can only pay £5 or £10 a week would this help avoid a default for now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If she is in the cooling off period, she should try to cancel. Or she will get the 2% from Provident and the claims co will take 75% of that.
There is NO chance a claims company can get her a full refund at the moment.
Her claim is not likely to be decided in the Scheme until the end of the year. If she reduces her payment she will still have cleared it by then.
I am sorry but she has to choose between the hopefully temporary damage to her credit record if she stops paying and being several hundred pounds worse off if she carries on paying and then wins the case.
frank says
Will cancel with claims company as wife signed up a few days ago as they confirmed that provident cases will go to a vote first, and the payout could be low without claims company getting 25%. Wife has got the vote letter from provident so can register her claim. Thanks
Clifford says
Vote no you wont get alot at all pennies in the pound
Clifford says
Sarah is there nothing the fca could do if they made the provident insolvent as to the other bussiness as they are all under the same umbrella and the ceo is all the same person malcom lee may so surely they can revoke there license etc could they not?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think the FCA has wide powers if it wanted to say that this was unacceptable.
M says
I remember when I was trouble with this company and others like it. I blamed myself for years!! It was only when Wonga went bust that I realised these companies had ignored all the rules that they are Governed by to make as much money as possible from vulnerable people. People in desperate situations make desperate decisions. This company is hoping that by saying In the letter to claimants, there’s 50 million pound to be paid as compensation with the scheme and nothing without – they’re preying on vulnerable people again to save themselves! And these legal loopholes – make me sick. SAY NO!
Andrew says
Well written…
I will be voting a big NO.
Clifford says
Look at this latest statement VOTE no they are clearly trying to do a hit and run with some of the peoples money in society Chief Executive Malcolm Le May said: “Whilst the latest [UK] government lockdown has reduced the demand for unsecured credit in our markets so far this year, we continue to see scope for growth opportunities, post-Covid, over the medium-term.”
At the end of December, the company’s regulatory capital was GBP685 million and its CET1 ratio stood at 35.0%.
CCD lending was down in the fourth quarter, but Provident said its collections remained strong, at about 90% of maturities. The unit’s customer receivables stood at GBP139 million and the end of 2020, down from GBP140 million at the end of the third quarter and reduced further to GBP118 million at the end of February in-line with management expectations.
Vanquis Bank’s impairment trends “remained favourable” in the fourth quarter, Provident said, and the take-up of payments holidays remained below expectations.
Turning to its car finance unit, Moneybarn, Provident said it continued to see good levels of demand during the final quarter of and the tighter underwriting criteria introduced in March led to a “significant improvement” in the credit quality of its average customer throughout 2020.
Commenting on the CCD announcement, analysts at Jefferies said: “Vanquis and Moneybarn remain well-positioned, and are insulated from CCD’s difficulties.
Clifford says
A domestic or foreign parent entity can be liable for the debts of an insolvent subsidiary if the insolvency was caused by the action of the parent entity. A parent entity may also bear the subsidiary liability if damages to creditors were caused by its actions
Sara could this not be the case for PFG as a whole as the company is run by one ceo over the 3 malcolm le may
Sara (Debt Camel) says
interesting. I will have a think about this next week.
Andrew says
Very well said. My wife is a trainee solicitor & also seeking advice about Provident & it’s umbrella companies.
Cm says
Hi just looking for a bit of advice I’ve currently got a complaint in with provident regarding a default date, will they still look at this now or will this go into the scheme. I’m currently making payments against the loan in question through moorcroft debt recovery
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In theory it should go into the Scheme. Which is unreasonable in a case like this which has no financial implications for Provident and where Provident are in breach of data protection rules if inaccurate information is being reported to the credit reference agencies. I suggest you pester Provident to try to get it looked at.
S W says
Another one bites the dust… potentially.
Seeing as we’re unlikely to get the full amount owed, I’ve a good mind to vote no on their proposal and watch the company slide into administration. I’ve had enough pay day style loans to last me a lifetime and every single company so far has gone the way of the dodo. Leaving me/us with sweet f.a.
If the vote is “No” and Provident go into administration, might we be entitled to more? Seeing as it’s owned by a larger parent, they’d surely have to dig deep into their bottomless pockets. Or do they just have to plead “short arms”?
Andrew says
Put Provident into administration is the best. Let them lose the lot. They are not doing the right thing by us at all.
VOTE NO
Dave R says
I’ll be voting No. I’m disgusted with them. Hoping the courts throw it out or the FCA intervene and it doesn’t even get to the stage of us having to vote.