Have you had big overdraft problems for a long period?
You can make an affordability complaint and ask for a refund of overdraft charges if:
- your overdraft limit was increased to a level you are unable to clear; or
- your overdraft usage showed you were in long-term financial distress. For example, being in the overdraft all the time, or using an unauthorised overdraft a lot.
This article shows how to make an affordability complaint to your bank, with a free template letter to use.
These complaints do not hurt your credit record.
Contents
Overdraft affordability complaints
Overdrafts are supposed to be for short term borrowing
Overdrafts are intended to be used for short-term problems, not as long-term borrowing. A bank should review a customer’s repayment record and overdraft limit and if there are signs of financial difficulty, offer help.
One sign of financial difficulty is hardcore borrowing for a long period. The Lending Code defined hardcore borrowings as “the position where a customer’s current account overdraft remains persistently overdrawn for more than a month without returning to credit during that period”.
Some Ombudsman decisions
All cases are very individual. But these examples give you an indication of what the Ombudsman thinks is important.
In this 2020 NatWest decision, the Ombudsman decided:
NatWest did have an obligation to monitor Miss K’s use of her overdraft facility.
Any fair and reasonable monitoring of Miss K’s overdraft facility would have resulted in NatWest being aware Miss K was in financial difficulty … by October 2014 at the absolute latest. So NatWest ought to have exercised forbearance from this point onwards.
In this 2021 Santander case, the bank didn’t notice hardcore borrowing:
By this point, Miss C was hardcore borrowing. In other, words she hadn’t seen or maintained a credit balance for an extended period of time. Santander’s own literature suggests that overdrafts are for unforeseen emergency borrowing not prolonged day-to-day expenditure. So I think that Miss C’s overdraft usage should have prompted Santander to have realised that Miss C wasn’t using her overdraft as intended and shouldn’t have continued offering it on the same terms.
A similar decision was reached in this 2021 Lloyds case:
Mr and Mrs C’s statements leading up to the renewal shows they hadn’t really had a credit balance on their account for a prolonged period. Indeed, they’d had regular returned payments and had also exceeded their limit. In these circumstances, it ought to have been apparent Mr and Mrs C were unlikely to be able to repay what they owed within a reasonable period with overdraft interest, fees and associated charges continuously being added.
Decide which reasons apply to your overdraft complaint
Read through these and think about which apply to your case.
The bank set your limit too high
This may have been from the start when you were first given an overdraft. Or the initial low limit may have been fine, then the bank increased it to a level which it was impossible for you to repay.
If the bank saw signs of financial difficulty, it should not have increased your credit limit, even if you asked for it. And it should have considered offering your help (the regulator’s word is forbearance) for example by stopping adding charges.
How high is too high?
There is no set figure, it depends on your income and expenses. An overdraft of £2,000 for someone whose income is £1,800 a month is a lot – but if you earn £5,000 a month, then a £2,000 overdraft may be reasonable.
The bank should have seen you were in difficulty
Overdrafts are meant to be used when you have a problem. Using the overdraft a lot for a few months is fine. Or for a few days at the end of a month before you are paid.
Banks should review your overdraft annually. This is in most overdraft tgerms and conditions. And even if it isn’t the Ombudsman says this is good industry practice.
So at one of these reviews, your bank should have seen if you were in financial distress. For example if you are in the overdraft for all (or almost all) of the month for a prolonged period. Or if you were exceeding your arranged overdraft limit regularly for a significant amount.
I would say over a year is prolonged.
Other points that help your complaint
You don’t win an affordability complaint by saying the charges were too high.
Instead, you say the bank should have known they were unaffordable for you because of all the financial problems it could see on your statements and your credit record.
Here is a checklist, work out if any of these apply to you:
- often having direct debits or standing orders not being paid;
- a lot of gambling showing on your statements;
- significantly increasing other debts with the same bank;
- being recently rejected for a loan or a credit card by the bank;
- significantly increasing debts with other lenders showing on your credit record;
- a worsening credit record – maxed out credit cards, new missed payments, defaults etc;
- using payday loans;
- increasing mortgage arrears;
- making payment arrangements with other creditors;
- a reduction in the income going into your account.
Any of these suggests you are reliant on the overdraft to pay everyday bills and you will find it hard or impossible to repay the overdraft and not use it the next month.
If you can think of another reason your bank should have known you were in trouble.
Making your complaint
What you need at the start
You don’t need to know the exact dates your limit was increased before complaining.
If you have paper statements or you can download them from the app that may be useful for you. But you don’t need to send these statements to the bank with your complaint – the bank already has them!
You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018 when the bank increased your limit. But your current credit record shows what was happening in 2017 and 2018. So download your credit report now and keep it. The sooner you get the report, the further back it goes. I suggest you get your free TransUnion statutory credit report.
Send a complaint in the app or by email
I don’t recommend phoning to start off a complaint. It’s too complicated and you will be talking to someone that doesn’t specialise in these complaints.
When the account is still open, you can send your complaint by secure message in the app or on the bank’s website. Take a copy of what you put in the message – you could email it to yourself so it won’t get lost and the date is recorded.
Most banks now have an email address that you can use if you prefer or if the account is closed so you can’t use the app. But banks don’t make these easy to find, so here is my list of bank email addresses for complaints.
A template you can adapt
The section above looked at the reasons to complain and the other good points that apply to your case – you are now going to turn those into a complaint.
In the template below, I’ve invented some examples and dates so you can see how a complaint email could read. The bits in italics should be changed or deleted to tell your story.
The bit about other points is important – what should your bank have noticed that showed you were in difficulty?
I am making an affordability complaint about the overdraft on my current account number 98765432.
Your identity details (these are needed if you complain by email, not if you use secure message):
My name is xxxxx xxxxxxxx. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I use/used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
START BY SAYING they should have noticed when your overdraft usage got worse
Overdrafts are meant for short-term borrowing but that was not what I was using the account for. The fees and charges you were adding were making my position worse.
I am complaining that every year since [20xx] you have failed to notice my difficulty during the annual reviews of my overdraft. You should have offered forbearance eg by stopping interest and charges being added.
By 2014 I had been in my overdraft constantly for many months, not getting back into the black even when I was paid. This “hardcore borrowing” is a clear sign of financial difficulty. My income was only £1,850 a month – after I had paid bills, there was no way I could hope to clear an overdraft of £3500 in a reasonable length of time.
OR
By 2017 I had a large unauthorised overdraft for many days each month.
some other points that you can include if relavent- see the list above – these are just a few examples
You should knew I was in financial difficulty because you had rejected my loan application in 2016.
You should have noticed that the income going into my account decreased from 2018.
From 2018-20 there was a lot of gambling showing on my account.
In 2017 you should have seen from my credit record that I had made payment arrangements with other debts.
ALSO Was the limit to high when it was set?
(It may have been ok then and things only got difficult later – in that case miss this out.)
You should never have given me an account with such a large overdraft. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recently missed payments to a credit card and had taken several payday loans.
OR
You should not have increased my overdraft limit in about 2014. When you increased the limit, you should have seen that my debts to other lenders on my credit record had increased a lot.
I do not know the exact months of these overdraft limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me when the increases were and how much the limit went up on each occasion.
END BY asking for a refund of charges and interest:
I would like you to refund all the interest and charges that were added to my account from 2016 when you increased my overdraft limit.
OR
I would like you to refund all the interest and charges that were added to my account from 2018 when you should have realised that my finances had got worse to the point that I was no longer able to clear the overdraft.
The Financial Ombudsman says that 8% simple interest should be added to any cash refund paid to me.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from my credit records.
Points to note
Personal accounts, not business accounts
The complaints covered here relate to personal accounts. For business accounts, talk to Business Debtline about your options.
You can complain if the account is still being used or if it is closed
These complaints can be made in a lot of different situations. For example:
- you are still using the account or you have stopped using it and are paying it off;
- the account has been closed;
- the bank defaulted it and sold it to a debt collector (here you still complain to the bank, not the debt collector). If the debt collector has gone to court and got a CCJ, add to your complaint that you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
But if you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then you shouldn’t complain – ask in the comments below for details.
Old accounts
Banks may say FOS won’t look at an old complaint, but this isn’t right. FOS will often look at a complaint if you have only just found out you can complain.
Open and recently closed accounts aren’t a problem – the bank will still have your statements.
If your complaint is about an account that was closed more than 6 years ago, it’s harder to win. The bank may no longer have much information about the old account. If you still have copies of your old bank statements for these old closed accounts this is worth a try.
If you feel you have a good older case take it to the Financial Ombudsman and let them decide!
Packaged bank accounts
These affordability complaints are nothing to do with packaged bank accounts. MSE has a good page about how to complain about packaged bank account charges. I suggest you don’t try to combine this with an affordability complaint – make two separate complaints to the bank and leave a gap of at least a month between them.
Student overdrafts
You are unlikely to win a complaint about a student overdraft saying you were a student and it was unaffordable – they are at 0% interest and nothing is charged until you are in work. So you need to argue it was unaffordable at the later date when they started to charge interest.
The Bank replies
They want to talk to me on the phone!
People are often scared if they get this message. But it may be good news!
You can just ignore it or say you would like a reply in writing.
If you decide to take the call, it helps to be prepared. Have a pen and paper handy so you can write down anything. If they say they are partially upholding the complaint, ask them the date they are refunding the fees from and how much. Also say you would like to see this in writing before you decide whether to accept it.
If they want to ask you questions that sound complicated or worrying (this is unusual), ask them to put the questions in writing as you find the phone difficult.
Rejection or a poor offer – go to the Ombudsman
The bank should reply in 8 weeks. You can’t go straight to the Ombudsman, you have to wait for the bank to reply.
Banks reject many good complaints, hoping you will give up. So don’t! You know if the overdraft has caused you a lot of problems.
And the bank may offer to refund fees for the last 15 months say, even though your problems have been large for many years. Think twice about accepting a low offer – you won’t put this offer at risk by going to the Ombudsman. If you aren’t sure, post in the comments below.
In particular, if the bank says you could have declined the increase to your overdraft limit or you never let the bank know you were in difficulty, FOS may not think that is a good reason. And ignore any statements by the bank that FOS will not look into things that happened more than 6 years ago.
Santander has been rejecting some cases then giving a full refund only a few weeks later if the case is sent to the Ombudsman – before the Ombudsman has even looked at it! Santander obviously knows it has been sending out misleading rejection letters.
The easy way to complain to FOS is by completing this online form:
- you can use what you put in your complaint to the bank;
- if the bank rejected your complaint or made a low offer, say why you think this is unfair;
- use normal English, not legal terms.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems send it to FOS. You don’t need to send your bank statements – the bank will send those to FOS. And you don’t need the policy documents for your bank account the lender will supply those to FOS if they are needed.
Do these complaints work?
Yes! In 2024, some banks are making more offers directly.
A Guardian article featured a case where someone used the template letter here. Barclays denied it has done anything but made an £8,000 “good will” payment to the customer.
And if yours doesn’t, people are winning cases at the ombudsman. FOS is a friendly service although it isn’t speedy. It isn’t any faster if you use a solicitor or a claims firm,
The comments below this article are from other people who have made this sort of complaint. That is a good place to ask for help if you aren’t sure what to do.
If you have priority debts such as utility bills, rent, council tax and benefit overpayments, these can’t wait until your overdraft complaint is settled. Start the overdraft complaint now, but you need debt help as well. So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you have made an affordability complaint but you would like to know what your debt options are.
Is your credit card limit too high?
Get a refunds from large loans
Unaffordable car finance – your options
Thomas says
Hi Sara – £600 awarded by Natwest out of goodwill. But bank charges and interest going back 6 years was £6,300 and they have rejected this. Any particular wording I should use in the complaint to the Ombudsman? Thanks for all your help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Use the Ombudsman’s online form (https://help.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/help) as that asks for a lot of little things they need to set up the complaint in their system cirrectly, like your date of birth and whether this is a joint account.
Use some of the language from your complaint to Natwest. Point out Natwest should have seen the gambling on your bank statements and your very heavy overdraft usage.
Say this has affected you by keeping you trapped in the overdraft continuously for many years.
Ask for a refund of the bank charges going back to xxxx – pick a date at which you feel your situation got extremely bad.
Helen says
I sent my natwest overdraft complaint to the ombudsman I have had a reply today to say it is being looked into. They have stated the below
will be looking further into the checks completed by NatWest Bank prior to accepting your overdraft application and any limit increases. I will consider whether these were reasonable and proportionate in the circumstances of your complaint. I will assess the final response letter issued and whether this is a fair outcome in the circumstances of your complaint.
Should I also say that I’ve hardly been out of it in the last few years? And racked lots of charges up sone unpaid dds etc?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes. And also say that you understand it is good practice for a bank to revioew overdrafts annually and you do not believe that Natwest made proper checks there.
Helen says
So I did say this after I got this response from
The adjudicator . I have reiterated that the bank failed to make other checks so do you think it’s worth responding?
can confirm that having assessed all of the available evidence, I was unable to confirm that NatWest Bank had offered you this overdraft irresponsibly.
I appreciate that you may have started to utilise PayDay Loans. However, we would only look at the account activity, and existing credit commitments etc at the point of the overdraft being applied to the account.
Considering all of the checks carried out by NatWest Bank at that time, there was no evidence that this would be unaffordable to you.
I appreciate that this is frustrating as your financial situation could have changed since then. However, at the time that the overdraft was applied/increased there was no evidence to suggest that this was unaffordable to you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you respond that you have read https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN5869499.pdf which says:
“Taking all of this into account, I find that NatWest didn’t act fairly and reasonably towards Miss K. It continued to provide and charge Miss K for her overdraft facility when her account usage (and what she more likely than not said in October 2014) ought reasonably to have shown she was having difficulty meeting her commitments and her debt had become unsustainable in circumstances where she was experiencing financial difficulty.”
and you consider exactly the same arguments apply to your case – that Natwest should have seen from your continuos very heavy overdraft usage and the payday loans that the overdraft had become unsustainable for you.
Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator does not change their mind.
Helen says
Thank you I’ve replied to that effect. Do they normally relook at it after making a decision ? I just feel that they have missed the point a bit.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
They can decide to look again.
Helen says
So the adjudicator won’t relook at it so I have asked for it to be passed to the ombudsman to make final decision. Do you think it’s worth doing that?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
definitely!
Helen says
So you think I should point anything else out to the ombudsman such as I had direct debits returned including some loan payments as well as several
Pay day loans being taken out over
The last few years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes point out all those things.
Jax says
Hey, is one adjudicator usually signed to a specific bank? I’m getting the same(ish) response to my NatWest overdraft claims. I’ve submitted a lot of claims and a few of them are out of time with the six year rule but the adjudicator has been suitably persuaded that I fall under the three year rule as I only found out about affordability claims last year. My overdrafts with NatWest were taken out in 2002 and 2016 and settled respectively in 2008 and 2016, but the 3 year principal should still apply- especially since the last overdraft was paid off by getting a loan with NatWest. How can I be reasonably aware if I didn’t know that I had recourse to complain?! The adjudicator keeps making ref to the fact that since 2009 I made unsuccessful applications for bank loans with NatWest (being successful in 2016) so I should have been aware of their lending rationale, but I’ve counter argued that just because they may have made a responsible decision those times doesn’t mean the 2016 one was correct. I’m gonna take it to ombudsman but reading about the response to NatWest overdraft decisions, I can’t help thinking the same person must be adjudicating for all of NatWest overdraft claims- and I therefore don’t think they are doing a good job.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not normally.
The point about loans being rejected isn’t very good. A bank may reject a loan because it is considering the amount of risk it wants to take – a lot of banks were offering less credit in 2009-12. Unless you were told a loan application was rejected as you would not be able to afford it ( which is unlikely) the rejection may well have had nothing to do with affordability.
Helen says
So after I sent my credit report and back statement over the investigator agreed to look again but then came back with the below response:. I then went back and said I thought they had an obligation to review the overdraft every year but he won’t budge if
I am unable to agree that NatWest Bank have acted unfairly in the circumstances of your complaint – or, that they acted irresponsibly by offering you this overdraft and any of the limit increases.
I appreciate the point that you have raised in relation to the payday loans that you took.
However, upon reviewing the credit report, it’s clear that these were taken from 2019 onwards.
The last overdraft increase applied to your account was on 2 December 2009.
There has been some time since this and therefore these payday loans would not be relevant to be considered as part of this investigation.
I can also see from the credit report that you opened several mail order accounts from around 2017 onwards.
Once again, these would not be relevant as these were not in place prior to your overdraft being set up or any of the limit increases.
I have reviewed the existing credit agreements that you held prior to the overdraft and last increase in December 2009.
Having reviewed these, I am unable to agree that this overdraft was unaffordable to you.
I have seen no evidence to suggest that by approving your application and raising the overdraft limit, that this was unaffordable .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Go back to the adjudicator and say that what happened after 2009 is also relevant to your complaint as Natwest has failed to review your overdraft annually despite your persistent and long term heavy usage. Ask him to be clear why he is not taking this into account.
This sounds like it will have to go to an Ombudsman but it’s good to get a clear answer from the adjudicator on this point first.
Helen says
Thank you for your response. Is it very often the ombudsman disagrees with the investigator?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It happens! Well worth pushing this. Even if you only get 6 years refunded, that is better than nothing/
Helen says
So the investigator came back withthis.
As I have confirmed previously, with irresponsible and unaffordable lending complaints, we look at the checks carried out at the point of application and any limit increases.
I appreciate your feelings on this and the further information you have supplied. However, my view remains the same.
Your emails will all be reviewed by the ombudsman and considered as part of their final decision. I will next be in touch in the coming weeks when I have a further update for you.
Helen says
What do you think to this Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you are right to ask for this to be looked at by an Ombudsman.
James says
Only a few days left before NatWest have to accept/decline/ask for more time to respond to my adjudicators decision.
If it does get passed to an Ombudsman because they don’t come back to the adjudicator or whatever, is that then another long wait in a pile of cases or does that all happen pretty quickly?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s typically 2-3 months. Can be less or more.
Sometimes a lender pops up after a few weeks and says they accept the offer.
James says
Ahhhh annoying. Assumed it was the adjudicator which was the long wait. Oh well, fingers crossed.
Is there any benefit to the bank accepting adjudicators ruling rather than just going to full ombudsman?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, only Ombudsman decisions are actually published on the FOS decision site (the consumer’s name is anonymised so you would be Mr J).
James says
Blimey, if that’s the only incentive to not going all the way to ombudsman then not sure why they ever accept the adjudicators decision.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh it also takes up more of their time. And the 8% added interest gets bigger. And it will REALLY annoy the Ombudsman if they do this a lot: the lender will be called in for a chat, if there is a real reason, the Ombudsman will work with the lender show why they are making the decisions they do, if necessary the Ombudsman will go to the trouble of a key decision on a typical case (these can be 20+ pages long), and the FCA will be informed.
Ann says
Hi I recently emailed in an affordability complaint, re my overdraft with Lloyds, around 10 days ago. I wasn’t sure whether you get any confirmation from them to say it’s been received etc so was going to leave it a while longer then check with them but late afternoon today, I had a text message from somebody at Lloyds saying they would like to speak to me about my complaint and would be phoning me but not to worry if I missed the call as they would try again. I’m really worrying about talking to her on the phone in case I say the wrong thing, I’m on medication which makes me forgetful etc but would it go against me if I don’t talk to them?
Thank you so much for all the advice and hard work you put in helping us all out x
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you answer The call but just ask them to reply in writing as the phone makes you anxious and you are on medication that makes your forgetful.
Mary says
Hi Sara
I got an email from a FOS investigator, I replied answering their questions and now they’ve replied saying they can’t help as they believe I’ve brought my complaint to them out of time.
OD was approved and increased a few times in 2015, I was not working nor did I have any benefits going into the account. I was also in the midst of a gambling addiction (no longer a problem). I applied for a loan to clear the OD when I started working in 2019ish and it was declined.
My last OD increase was June 2015. I’m still in the overdraft. I explained to them that I only became aware of banks irresponsible lending complaints this year like many people tbf.
I’m not sure what to do now.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Which bank is this?
The account is still open? How many days of the month, roughly, are you in the overdraft?
Mary says
RBS. Account is open. Everyday the OD is maxed out and has been for years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“I was also in the midst of a gambling addiction “
Did you mention that as a reason why you did not complaint earlier?
“I applied for a loan to clear the OD when I started working in 2019ish and it was declined.”
Did the adjudicator’s decision specifically mention this, saying you should have complained at that time?
To be clear, you should definitely ask for this to be looked at by an Ombudsman. It is just a question of any specific points it is worth making.
Mary says
Yes, I told them about the gambling and that I had no income.
Yes, they specifically mentioned that. They said ‘You ought to have been aware at this point that the overdraft was unaffordable to you and that The Royal Bank of Scotland may have done something wrong’
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So I suggest you go back to the adjudicator and make the following points:
For many years until I stopped being a problem gambler [9 months ago, in early 2020, whatever] it was impossible for me to think rationally about my money. Back in 2015 I was not working and had no income going into the bank account, I relied on the overdraft and at the same time I hoped that I would be able to clear it with a big win, which of course never happened. But every month for years was trying to get through to the next month. I didn’t blame RBS for this, I thought it was entirely my fault. Also I had no idea that RBS should have checked the overdraft increases were affordable so how could I have complained about something I did not realise was wrong?
I think you should take into account that a problem gambler is in a vulnerable position and not expect that they can just stop gambling or be able to risk the overdraft which at the time I saw as my lifeline.
I applied for a loan when I was working to try to bring down the cost of the overdraft. That doesn’t mean at that point that I thought the overdraft was “unaffordable” – at that point I still had not heard of that concept. I just though the loan would be cheaper. When it was declined I just thought I had to work harder to get myself out of the mess I was in. At that point I still had no idea that RBS was at fault for increasing the overdraft limit to an unsustainable level.
As soon as I found out [in month/year, earlier this year, whatever] what an affordability complain was I realised that RBS was partly to blame for my financial difficulties over the years. They should never have increased my limit because of the gambling and they should not have allowed me to carry on being in the overdraft every day of the month for many years with no way of getting out of it as the overdraft was larger then my income.
So I think I have complained within 3 years of knowing that I had a cause to complain so FOS should look at my complaint right back to 2015.
But even if FOS deicide you cant do that, you should still be able to go back 6 years. Because RBS should have reviewed by overdraft annually and for the the last 6 years (and before that too) they failed to do this as any check would have shown that I was in massive financial difficulty and the overdraft charges every month have made that worse.
CM says
I have a similar complaint with rbs for a 1500 overdraft I have been in for 18 years. RBS refused to look into the complaint due to the 6 year/3 year rule. About 2 months ago I complained to the ombudsman and received this response.
“I am writing about your complaint with RBS. I’m sorry that things still haven’t yet been resolved.
However, the Ombudsman are still working through the clarification from the Supreme Court about consumer credit agreements. They know customers have been waiting a while and as soon as I can I’ll let you know what I think.
In the meantime, I will continue to update you around every 30 days. You don’t need to do anything further at this stage. ”
Can you please advise me what this means and is this likely to be a lengthy process?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FOS is looking at whether it should change the way it makes the decision on whether to go back further than 6 years. If it does, it will be generally good news for affordability complaints.
So far as I can tell, FOS has issued some key decisions on this and is waiting to see if the lenders decide to dispute any by going to court.
Mark says
Dear Sara
In March this year Lloyds Bank promptly agreed an o/d affordability complaint and refunded charges that went back 6 years to March 2017. I do understand there is a regulatory 6 years (but this is voluntary isn’t it, not written in stone that would prevent them going back further?).
The o/d was first approved in March 2005 and in their letter agreeing my complaint Lloyds stated they should not have granted the overdraft when I “first applied in 2017”. I didn’t first apply for o/d in 2017…it was 2005. Lloyds have just seamlessly continued this o/d arrangement without any reviews.
I had referred matter of charges 2005 -2016 to FOS, sending copy of Lloyds “agree complaint” letter but didn’t point out this “typo”saying 2017 instead of 2005 as I hadn’t noticed it. The FOS response is I should have known it was unaffordable and have had 3 years to know this ( I dunno which 3 years they are talking about) and Lloyds have refused the complaint as prior 6 years limit. FOS did ask when/how I knew I could complain I referred to this website in December 2022
If Lloyds readily settled 6 years, surely Lloyds having said they shouldn’t have given me the o/d when I first applied (as said it was 2005 not as they mentioned 2017) they are culpable.
I have referred it back to adjudicator who will presumably refer it to Ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well the typo is an unusual feature… but normally typos don’t help you a great deal.
The points you need to make to the Ombudsman are:
– you only found out that Lloyds had a duty to check affordability in Dec 2022 and you complained promptly after that (the reference to 3 years is the time limit you have to make a complaint about a problem that is older than 6 years)
– before then, you thought your overdraft charges were your fault for borrowing too much and you did not think Lloyds was partially at fault as you were unaware that they had done anything wrong.
Go back to the adjudicator and ask for those points to be passed into the Ombudsman. Do this now – don’t wait to be asked by the Ombudsman as the Ombudsman will assume that you have made all the arguments you want considered to the adjudicator and may not ask you anything.
Mark says
Dear Sara
I had previously pointed out this re the 3 months, to the adjudicator in a separate email but still received what appears to be a generic type response (seeing those same on here). I also noticed the adjudicator doesn’t acknowledge receipt of emails. Thought this would be auto response at least. Do they really look into these things?? Let’s see what happens.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume you meant 3 years not months.
Set out the points you want to make to the Ombudsman now in full. Send tgem to the adjudicator and ask for them to be passed to the Ombudsman
Mark says
Hi Sara
I did emhasise the points you highlighted…regretably without a successful outcome. Out of time is the Ombudsman decision and not knowing is not an excuse, FOS points out!
Here is part of FOS response
“…I (Ombudsman) can still look into complaints made outside the time limits if I’m satisfied the failure to
comply with them was due to exceptional circumstances. Mr H has told us that he didn’t
complain earlier because he didn’t know he could make a complaint about unaffordable
lending.
In coming to my decision I have to be fair to both Mr H and Lloyds and what I have to decide
is whether I think the circumstances outlined by Mr H would’ve prevented him from referring
his complaint in time had he chosen to do so. I’m afraid that not knowing he could complain
is not considered an exceptional circumstance. “
james says
If a bank is to accept the ruling of an adjudicator, or the full ombudsman decision, how long do they then have/does it normally take them to implement the remedy? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A month. Realistically if a debt has to be bought back from a debt collector this may take longer. As will correcting a credit record.
Siobhan says
I’ve had this from the adjudicator today. I take it I’ll have to leave it?
NatWest have raised an objection to our service reviewing your complaint as they believe it’s been raised out of time. Under our rules, we can’t consider a complaint if the complainant refers it to the Financial Ombudsman Service:
2) More than:
(a) Six years after the event complained of, or (if later)
(b) Three years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that he/she had cause for complaint.
You were given an overdraft in November 2015. As there’s no evidence to suggest that you complained to NatWest before 2 June 2023, I’m satisfied more than six years has passed since the event complained of.
I’ve then gone on to consider when you would’ve been reasonably aware, you had cause to complain.
You’ve said you started struggling financially between 2016 and 2019 and entered into a debt management plan in January 2020. I think you ought to have been aware that there was an issue in January 2020 (at the latest) and that NatWest’s decision to give you an overdraft may have contributed to this issue – so I’m also satisfied more than three years has passed from the time you ought to have been aware you had cause to complain.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back and make four points.
1) you have complained within 3 years of becoming aware that you had a cause to complain
2) in 2016-19 you were in financial difficulty but you felt that was your problem for having borrowed too much – it never occurred to you that NatWest was partly at fault for not having checked the overdraft was affordable as you had no idea that such a rule existed
3) StepChange (or whoever your DMP was with) gave you debt advice in 2020 but they never mentioned that you had a possible reason to make affordability complaints. You don’t think it’s reasonable for someone with no knowledge about debt rules to be aware of something that an expert such as StepChange did not mention.
4) you now understand that a bank should review the affordability of an overdraft every year. In which case you are complaining about their decisions in every year after 2015 – and the last 6 decisions therefore fall withing the “6 year rule” part of what FOS can consider.
Siobhan says
Thank you so much
Siobhan McMurdo says
This is the latest from the adjudicator, doesn’t make sense to me. I have to submit a new complaint?
Siobhan says
Sorry I didn’t copy the email 🤦🏼♀️
Thank you for your email.
As your complaint was about the initial lending in November 2015, it’s been raised out of time for the reasons already explained.
If you’d like us to look into the reviews completed in the last six years, you’d need to raise a new complaint with NatWest first and give them a chance to investigate.
If you still disagree, please let me know and I can refer it to an Ombudsman who will decide whether it’s a complaint we can look at. Please note, the Ombudsman will making the decision solely based on the initial lending also.
So I basically have to say the same thing as my
Original complaint but change the date? This is ridiculous.
I’m probably going to leave it, so much hassle
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well that is a ridiculous argument.
When you sent in your complaint, did you include any references to theb problems this has caused you
eg “Overdrafts are meant for short-term borrowing but that was not what I was using the account for. The fees and charges you were adding were making my position worse.”
how many days of the month you were in your overdraft
how it was impossible for you to clear it
gambling on the account
rejected direct debits
use of unauthorised overdraft
anything else that happened after 2016???
This may be a hassle but you could get a significant amount of money back for a refund for just 6 years.
Siobhan says
Hi Sara
I explained about the fees and how I was always borrowing and always at my overdraft limit and even going over that. Mentioned I was in a dmp. Had payday loans, credit cards maxed out and that NatWest had already agreed that in 2016 they could see I was always in my overdraft and that I clearly having issues.
I’ll send another complaint to NatWest today.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
First I suggest you reply to the adjudicator that this wastes your time, Natwest’s time and FOS’s time.
Can you ask the adjudicator why they don’t just invite NatWest to reconsider your complaint for the last 6 years?
And say in any case you want this decision to go to the Ombudsman as you have complained within 3 years of finding out that you had a cause to complain.
You can also send Natwest another complaint, I have now rejigged the template in the article above.
Linda says
Hi, I’ve been following this for a while, I made a complaint to NatWest, which got rejected. Persistently in the overdraft from 2008-2016 maxing a £3.4k overdraft. There were other factors CCJ etc at the time one of which was a NatWest credit card, arrears on other things too. So I forwarded this to FOS and stated that I had only recently found out about this and prior to that had seen it completely as my issue and not that the bank should have completed annual reviews.
I’ve had a response from FOS today agreeing with NatWest. Is there anything more I can say here or is it not worth it? Any help appreciated.
“NatWest have raised an objection to our service
2) More than:
(a) Six years after the event complained of, or (if later)
(b) Three years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that he/she had cause for complaint.
More than six years have passed since the overdraft charges applied between 2008 and 4 June 2017. As there’s no evidence to suggest that you complained to NatWest before 5 June 2023, I’m satisfied the complaint about these charges has been raised out of time.
I’ve then gone on to consider when you would’ve been reasonably aware, you had cause to complain.
Our rules do allow us to set aside the time limits if the delay was due to exceptional circumstances. These circumstances would need to have prevented you from carrying out day to day activities.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is definitely worth asking the adjudicator to look again and for this case to go to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind.
How did you clear the overdraft in 2017?
james says
Just to updated…
As I mentioned before Adjudicator ruled in my favour, will total about £22k refund. However, Natwest have asked for more time (an extra week) to respond due to case load.
Maybe I’m overthinking it again, but that suggests to me they may not agree and ask it to go to the full ombudsman. Anyone been in a similar position with Natwest asking for more time? If so, did they appeal/disagree with adjudicator?
Thanks
Sam says
Hi,
I sent in an overdraft complaint to Barclays and won. They refunded the fees and charges for the last 6 years and closed off my overdraft. I understand they could not go back further but I had basically been in my overdraft since 2000 so i sent this to the FOS. They have come back today to say that they are unable to look further into this as I raised a complaint in May 2015 via a claims management company which was unsuccessful. I don’t ever remember doing this, so I am after some advice.
Do I push this back to the Ombudsmen?
If I did already complain, why did Barclays not say anything previously?
I don’t want to seem pushy as the Ombudsmen as looking at other complaints for me and I don’t want to annoy them but I really do not remember ever already putting a complaint in.
Regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Did they say this was an affordability complaint? May 15 would have been surprisingly early for one via a claims company… could it have been a PPI refund?
Sam says
Thank you for getting back to me. The FOS sent me the final response that Barclays apparently sent to me back in 2015 and it says that the complaint was about being unhappy with the bank charges and daily overdraft fees. It does not say anything about affordability. It also says that they have been unable to give the claims management company permission to deal with this for me!
Should I ask Barclays which company this was?
It wont have been a PPI claim as I’ve never had a loan with Barclays. I vaguely remember something about package fees that I have never used, but I’m sure this was done by me and not a claims company.
Thanks again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you recall complaining to Barclays about overdraft fees and charges in 2015 directly, not through a claims company?
Sam says
Hi,
Definitely didn’t complain directly, genuinely didn’t think I could.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then it’s important that you go back to the Ombudsman and say you that you did not make any complaint to Barclays in 2015 and you certainly never used a claims company and they may have mixed you up with someone else.
Sam says
Hi Sara,
Me again!! So I went back to FOS and said that I did not complain back in 2015 and they must have mistaken me for someone else.
They emailed back today with a copy of Barclays file on the complaint. The company that I apparently used was called Bank Charge Recovery Ltd. The file says that there is a signed and dated letter of authority to act on my behalf. The FOS said that if I can provide clarification or information that supports my stance then they will review it. The problem I have now is that Bank Charge Recovery Ltd have dissolved in 2017 so I am unable to review any paperwork they may have or speak to anyone about this.
What do you suggest I do next?
On a side note, the file they have on the complaint says that the so called complaint in 2015 is about rescission of unfair bank charges. My complaint with Barclays now is an affordability complaint so is this different?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply that you have never heard of this company and you have checked companies house and it was dissolved in 2017 so you are not sure how you can produce any information to prove a negative. Ask if you can be shown the signed letter of authority that Barclays have on file.
Sam says
Hi,
I have emailed back the above points and she has already replied saying she has asked Barclays for the letter of authority and will let me know once they reply but she then said this.
However, I should make it clear that it’s unlikely this will change things. Because the information I have supports that a complaint was raised and, as a minimum, Barclays’ final response was sent to your address in 2015.
Surely if Barclays can’t produce the letter then that surely helps my claim?
She has already sent the final response that they claim was sent back in 2015. I did point out that there is no document in my online banking. There is a section where all documents they have sent me (unpaid direct debits, charges etc) that dates back to 2013 but there is no final response document saved in there!
Thank you so much for the help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, Barclays should be able to produce the letter of authority AND the final response.
Sam says
Hi Sara,
So the FOS has got back to me this morning saying this:
Barclays have informed me that a signed letter of authority wasn’t received from Bank Charge Recovery (BCR), and this is the reason the response was sent directly to you. Barclays sent the attached update letter to BCR instead.
Barclays has also provided evidence of a complaint received in 2014 regarding a packaged bank account. BCR was the representative on this complaint and a signed letter of authority was included. I’ve attached both the complaint summary and the letter of authority Barclays received.
Both complaints include information specific to you such as your full name, address and account details. So I’m satisfied these complaints were raised by you or on your behalf. Furthermore, I’m satisfied Barclays final response was sent to your address in May 2015 and, at the very latest, this would have given rise to reasonable awareness, starting the three year time limit.
I trust I’ve explained the reasons why events prior to 14 May 2017. However, if you don’t accept what I’ve said, you can ask an ombudsman to look at this again and make a decision on our service’s remit here. They’ll review the information we have on file – including what I’ve shared with you.
Am I fighting a loosing battle?
I thought with the complaint being an affordability complaint, it might be treated separately.
What do you think?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So does the signature on the packaged bank account look like yours?
Yes you can go back and argue that complaints about packaged bank accounts and bank charge recovery has nothing to do with an affordability complaint. And the responses from Barclays did not mention the issue off affordability so as you were unaware that a bank had to check for affordability at that point, making those complaints did not alert you to the possibility. And the claims company did not suggest you should complain about affordability.
Sam says
Hi Sara,
It does match yes, it was a long time ago and it is quite possible I did do it but I was pretty desperate back then, I would have signed anything if someone said there was a chance of getting some money back!!
I responded to FOS saying that the overdraft charges and packaged bank accounts are nothing to do with this complaint and they have responded with this
———————————–
I believe I made it clear in my email that the Letter of Authority related to a separate, earlier complaint from 2014. In your email dated 8 September 2023, you said you’d never heard of Bank Charge Recovery Ltd. So the signed Letter of Authority, where you gave Bank Charge Recovery Ltd authority to act on your behalf was mainly to provide some background context for you.
In any event, as I’ve previously explained, I’m satisfied Bank Charge Recovery Ltd raised a complaint about the overdraft charges to Barclays on your behalf in May 2015. I’m also satisfied Barclays wrote directly to you the same month in response to this complaint, telling you why it didn’t think the charges were unfair. As this letter gave you six months to refer your complaint to our service, charges applied before 11 May 2015 are outside our six month time limit.
You continued to be charged for your overdraft. But, given that you’d previously raised a complaint – and received a response on overdraft charges – I don’t think it can be argued that you weren’t reasonably aware you could complain about this issue. This means that charges applied between 12 May 2015 and 13 May 2017 are outside our six and three year time limits.
I trust I’ve clearly explained our rules – and why we can’t help with all the charges you’ve complained about. My outcome is unlikely to change so, if you remain unhappy, you can ask for an ombudsman to make a decision. As I’ve previously explained, the ombudsman will have access to all the information I’ve looked at – including the information we have on previous complaints to Barclays.
———————–
Am I fighting a losing battle?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Possibly. And you have had all interest and cahregs for the last 6 years refunded, which is good.
But you can ask for this to go to an Ombudsman and say as none of the communications from Barclays in 2015 mentioned “afffordability” and as at that point you had never heard of an affordability complaint and was unaware that a bank should have checked your overdraft was affordable annually, you don’t see how you have been expected to make a complaint asbout that at the time, or to take a complaint you didnt not know you had the right to make to the Ombudsman.
Steve says
Sara,
Thank you so much for your help with this website. I’ve received an email back from HSBC today bullet pointed to the following:
– Gesture of goodwill refunding £1224.64 (credited to my account overnight) of all interest and charges on my Bank Account back to October 2018 when the facility was first approved (This is the figure they have stated in their email)
– As it was a goodwill gesture they wouldn’t be required to pay the 8% interest
– Reduced my overdraft down in half for me
I have responded back asking for a statement showing all charges and interest for the period in question to confirm. Does this need referring onto Ombudsman or have i now gone as far as can go? Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has this cleared your overdraft, or nearly?
If the details they send confirm that the interest & charges do add up to 1224, then there is no need to send this to the ombudsman, this is a “full refund”. Banks do normally get these numbers right, but if you thought it would be more, it’s good to check up.
Will you now be able to manage with the lower overdraft limit?
Steve says
Hi Sara,
Yes i’d managed to get myself out of the overdraft some time ago, it was only that i came across this page did i decide to chance it and send off the template letter so i’m able to manage without it being the level it is at!
Awaiting a response now from the bank to confirm all of the payments but it looks correct after the refund came through
Louise073 says
Hi can I ask what email address you sent it too please.Thankyou.
Adam Abu Nab says
Hi Steve, congrats, can you tell me who / what address you emailed? I have the same bank. Thanks!
Geraldine says
I have a 4k o/d with Barclays bank on an account. It was originally around 1k. I increased it in December 2018 in the midst of a mental breakdown which led to a surge in gambling addiction. They agreed to increase my o/d several times in the same month despite multiple transactions on gambling sites. At the time I was earning around 1700 per month. I now earn 2k per month and have been paying approximately £120 in interest monthly, always maxing the overdraft every month. I applied for and was granted a Barclays loan within six months of the o/d increase as well as holding a Barclaycard which was also maxed out until I got a loan to pay it and some other credit cards off. I have since had two other loans to consolidate debts but they essentially move around because of gambling. I am getting therapy for the addiction now but am obviously in a dire situation financially. I live with family so have no major bills like rent or utilities in my name. I believe they have lent to me irresponsibly (and of course realise that I have been irresponsible but feel my mental health has been a major factor). Do you think I have a case to complain and will they close my account if my complaint is upheld?
I am worried because I haven’t told anybody about my situation and feel that closing my account will raise questions with family members.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This sounds like a strong complaint about the Barclay overdraft – it is not responsible to increase an overdraft where there is a lot of recent gambling showing, and certainly not to a level that is over what your salary is in a month.
If Barclays rejects this, send it straight to the ombudsman.
The refund may well clear the overdraft, in which case Barclays may remove the overdraft but aren’t likely to close the account.
It also sounds like a good complaint about the loan Barclays gave you – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans for a template. Change that to say that Barclays should have seen the gambling and high overdraft usage and your maxed out credit card.
James says
I can help a little here.
Had a maxed out overdraft with NatWest for 6 years. Adjudicator ruled that I had all the info required about the increase in limit so wouldn’t uphold my complaint on that basis. However NatWest should’ve seen I was using my account in a bad way and with a hell of a lot of gambling transactions and so after 6 months should’ve stepped in.
Also had two loans from NatWest granted after that. Adjudicator ruled they shouldn’t have given them to me as should’ve seen state of other account and don’t more checks etc.
In short mine sounds very similar to yours (albeit mine unfortunately is more extreme numbers), NatWest said they’d done nothing wrong, two seperate adjudicators upheld my complaint tho (one for each issue). So def send to FOS if Barclays say no.
Also worth noting I sent my complaint, the response, bank statements and my credit file to FOS when raising and have had initial decisions inside 2 months in both instances. Put the effort in and seemingly it’s not as long a process as some people experience. Good luck (I’m still waiting to hear if NatWest accept the decisions)
Lauren says
Hello,
I have been in my Lloyds overdraft since January 2019. I opened my overdraft at around 1.3k which was later increased to 1.5k. I have been in my overdraft everyday for the past 5 years!
I wanted to ask if I stand a chance in being refunded fees as I do have several of retail/klarna purchases on my bank statements. Also, if I was offered support from the bank, would this affect my credit file? As in would this affect my credit score?
Thank you :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This sounds like a good complaint to me.
If I was offered support from the bank, would this affect my credit file? As in would this affect my credit score?
no.
(And even if it did, how else you you propose to clear this overdraft?)
Sahil says
Hi sara received email from fos what would be the best reply thanks when tsb offered me overdraft i had other credit cards and overdraft as well
What prompted you to get in touch with TSB to log your complaint in the first place?
– Why didn’t you log your complaint earlier than this date?
– When did you realise that something had gone wrong with the account and you had suffered a loss because of this? Please provide ballpark dates at the very least.
– When did your finances deteriorate as a result of being given the credit? Please provide ballpark dates at the very least.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you give a summary of this overdraft, when opened, when limit was changed, is account still open, roughly how many days a month are/were you in The overdraft?
And do you have any other borrowing from TSB during this period – loans, credit cards…
Sahil says
Hi dear sara thanks for the reply
Account was opened in 2014 and the overdraft limit was £100 but with time increased to £3000 which i cleared in 2021 with a loan from same bank tsb account is still open and i am still paying the loan payments
That i had in use £5000 halifax overdraft halifax credit card aqua credit card and 2 barclays debit cards
I never come out of the credit always pying the overdraft fee and never had help from the bank
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh were many of the limit increases more than 6 years before you complained? That’s ok, it just changes how you reply.
I never come out of the credit always pying the overdraft fee
so in 2017 say you were in your TSB overdraft for every single day of the month?
did the same apply to your Halifax overdraft – have you also complained about this? When was the Halifax account opened?
Sahil says
Yeah the 3000 limit was increased online time to time without any checks
Yes i was in overdraft for every single day and its same for the halifax and other credit cards
Yes i complained to halifax they paid for upto six years and the claim is with FOS for halifax as well
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Some replies could be as follows- but make sure they are EXACTLY right for your case and how you felt. Thats what matters.
“What prompted you to get in touch with TSB to log your complaint in the first place?”
I have made affordability complaints to TSB and the Halifax [this year?] after I found out that a bank should have checked every year to make sure that an overdraft is affordable. I found this out from a friend/relative who told me/by seeing an article in the Guardian/Sun about these complaints/ by seeing about them on Instagram/Facebook/other social media, by …. whatever happened to you. As soon as I heard this, I realised that the fact that I have been in my TSB overdraft every day of the month for many years means they were unaffordable so I made a complaint.
“Why didn’t you log your complaint earlier than this date?”
Before then I didn’t associate my money problems with by bank’s decision to give me an overdraft. I thought I had just borrowed to much. I didn’t realise that the bank was partly to blame by not reviewing my overdraft annually and seeing that it was impossible for me to reduce my usage as it was too big.
“When did you realise that something had gone wrong with the account and you had suffered a loss because of this? Please provide ballpark dates at the very least.”
I always knew I was paying overdraft fees and that they were expensive but i thiought that was just normal. I took a loan from TSB to clear the account in 2021 to try to reduce the charges – I am still paying that loan off. But in 2021 I didn’t realise that anything had gone wrong with TSB’s bank account administration, or I would have complained at that point. I still thought it was my problem to find a way out of the overdraft as the fees were very high.
“When did your finances deteriorate as a result of being given the credit?”
My finances have been difficult for years. I know you are just looking at this TSB account, but I was juggling money and payments between two bank accounts and I also had increasing credit card debt and I didn’t tend to think of them separately. The initial £100 overdaft from TSB was ok, but they kept increasing it and i foolishly though this would make it easier to manage my money. Instead the high monthly charges have made it more difficult.
Sahil says
Thank you very much for your response sara i will definitely update you the outcome
And believe me what you wrote it was exactly my situation once again thanks allot
Sahil says
Hi dear sara today received reply for adjudicator and said the complainis more than 6 years old he said if want to contact with onbdusman i can what would be your suggestion please thank
From what I’ve seen, you applied for an overdraft with TSB in July 2014 and your last limit increase was to £3,000 in December 2014. There were no further limit increases after this.
TSB does not agree to the service investigating your complaint about credit given to you more than six years before you complained. TSB doesn’t object to us looking into the credit given to you in the last six years before you complained. So my investigation focuses on whether we are able to look into the credit given to you more than six years before you complained
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so your option is to say you are happy for the adjudicator to look at only the last 6 years. OR to ask for this to go to an Ombudsman.
Sahil says
Yes i asked to check forthe last 6 years
This was the reply
By June 2018, you’d been in your overdraft for six months without achieving a positive balance. As a result you incurred overdraft charges/interest. For this reason, you would’ve reasonably been aware that the overdraft was unsustainable by July 2018 at the latest. So TSB caused you loss as it continued to provide an overdraft facility that was higher than your income keeping you in debt. As such, I think that you knew enough, by July 2018, to decide whether the overdraft facility TSB continued to provide contributed to your inability to achieve a positive balance given your level of income.
As this is the case, I think you’ve complained about credit provided more than six years before you complained too late. I haven’t seen anything to make me think that you’ve referred your complaint late as a result of exceptional circumstances. I understand that this will be disappointing but I’m sorry that I don’t currently think we can look at your overdraft from more than six years before you complained. I can only look into your overdraft from 16 June 2017 onward.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you now have to choose:
EITHER
you tell the adjudicator you are happy to give up on the claim for more than 6 years ago and ask the adjudicator continue with your claim for the last six years only
OR
you tell the adjudicator that you want an Ombudsman to look again at the decision because you want your claim considered going back more than 6 years. If the Ombudsman agrees with the adjudicator that FOS cant look at this, then the adjudicator will then look at the last 6 years only.
sahil says
yeah i already said the adjuciator to look for 6 years
on the reply top adjudicator said i was in struggling in 2018 what do you think do i have chance to get the refund
and i spoke to her now as well and she said bank should have remove the overdraft they shouldnt renew it she just need 3 bank statment from the bank and she will reply me within 1 month
i beleive i will get refund from 2017 what do you think?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that sounds promising
Sahil says
Hi dear
Received refund from tsb today from nov 2018
But overdraft was given in 2014
Please need your guidance as the complaint was resolved till 2018
And I complained to get refund from 2014 but I wasn’t explain well by the case handler that if I accept to get refund from last 6 years I wouldn’t be able to back 2014
As i have new information to add on the same complaint and i said email to case handler i would like to add new information but after one week she gave her decision with out taking the new information even i called her the day she made a decision that i have new information to add but she was very very rude she didn’t listen to me at all
Now what should i do should i complaint to the bank or FOS service again with new information ?
Or if the case is already handled by case handler stage I cannot complain again ?
I know shouldn’t have accepted from the case handler for upto 6 years and gone to obdusman but it clearly wasn’t explained by the handler
So please if you can comment would be very kind of you thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but you should have sorted this out in September and said then you weanted the case to go to an ombudsman.. I hope the refund from Nov 2018 is a good one.
Sahil says
Thank you for the quick reply dear sara
Means now I cannot complain to no one even with new information 😢😢
Not even obdusman?
More than £3k from 2014 to 218
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it isn’t a question of new information. You were asked in September if you wanted the adjuicator to look at just the last 6 years or for an ombudsman to decide if they could go back further. You said just the last 6 years.
EP says
Hi Sara
Do you think it’s worth me putting in a claim. I have been in constant use of my £4000 overdraft for the last 10 years, never being in the black even after being paid. My average take home pay is 1500 per month. Whilst being overdrawn to this extent, the bank provided me with 2 credit cards and a total of 6 loans. Whilst being offered this credit there were hundreds of gambling transactions on my account. This has left me in a perpetual cycle of debt.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you still have a gambling problem?
EP says
I’m seeking help for that so my gambling transactions have been minimal the last few months, however the damage has been done from before.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s good, otherwise some nice refunds and all the money will be gone in a couple of months…
I think you should immediately complain about the overdraft. In this mention the gambling showing on the account and that they have failed to review your overdraft usage each year. And mention your increasing other debts including debt to the same bank.
Also put in separate complaints about the loans from your bank (https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/) and the credit cards (https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/) In each of these say that the bank should have seen the very high constat overdraft and the gambling transactions on the account.
EP says
Thanks Sara. I will keep this page updated.
Natalie says
Hi Sara,
The adjudicator hasn’t found in my favour for a RBS overdraft. I’ve been in my OD since 2018 it was never used as my account.
The adjudicator has said;
I understand that you’re unhappy with RBS charges for using your overdraft and you believe they should seen that your were struggling financially however having looked at how this particular account was used I can see that RBS ought to have known you were experiencing financial difficulty.
I say this because as you have said this was not your main account, the only transactions coming in and out of the account was money you were transferring in and money you were transferring out. I appreciate your account showed no credit balance between 3 December 2018 – February 2021 however during that time you made sure to remain within your overdraft limit, it was not a main account with essential bills going unpaid, there was no unarranged overdraft fees, returned direct debits or unpaid transaction fees, there was the three gambling transactions on 3 Dec 2018 but nothing through the rest of the history on this account that would have been considered as problematic or alerted The Royal Bank of Scotland to the fact that you were struggling with gambling.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how much were your transferring in and out each month? Was it just money to cover the overdraft fees?
who was your main account with? did you have any other credit from RBS or Natwest?
Natalie says
Yes it was just enough to cover the fees. Sometimes I would make a payment of a couple of hundred but then I’d transfer it back out again as I was gambling.
I had a NatWest account that was also in overdraft, although the NatWest wasn’t my main account either. I did use the NatWest account for gambling.
The adjudicator said in relation to that;
The Roya Bank of Scotland would not be cross referencing data for other accounts you held with NatWest, although they are part of the RBS group but still separate financial entities in banking terms.
My main account was Lloyds.
I did have a 20k loan with RBS but that came later in 2021 and I have put a separate complaint in about that, it is with a different adjudicator.
The loan cleared the overdraft for a while but I had soon transferred it and used most of for gambling and paying off other credit.
I no longer gamble.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“it was just enough to cover the fees. Sometimes I would make a payment of a couple of hundred but then I’d transfer it back out again as I was gambling.”
In that case you can argue that overdrafts are meant for short term problems, and RBS should have seen that your overdraft was being used heavilty and consistently for many years, and most months the only credits to the account were to cover the overdraft fees. Occaisionally you paid a bit more but later that month the overdraft was again maxed out.
I think this is a good reason to go back to the adjudicator and ask them to look again, and for the case to go to an Ombudsamn if they don’t change their mind.
“I had a NatWest account that was also in overdraft, although the NatWest wasn’t my main account either. I did use the NatWest account for gambling.”
Have you made a complaint about that?
Natalie says
Yes and that one was agreed by a different adjudicator.
They said for the NatWest there was significant gambling and NatWest should’ve stepped in November 2019.
Thank you I’ll go back to the adjudicator
MARC says
Hello many thanks for your help. I put in a claim with the financial ombudsman roughly end of April for my overdraft, They have found in my favour I have agreed to the Ombudsman decision today. They have told the bank i have agreed so basically all put to bed. Just wondering how long roughly will it take for the bank to transfer me the money? Thanks again for this website
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this a decision from an adjudicator? If it is, first the bank has to accept the decision.
MARC says
Everybody My self and the bank have agreed today with the adjudicator outcome. Refund for 2 years fees. Just wondering on average how long before the money hits my account. thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It should be in the next 4 weeks, but banks are usually much faster than this. If you name the bank, other people may say what their experience was.
MARC says
LLoyds. Everything was agreed today. I agreed with the adjudicators decision and lloyds offered me a settlement which i am happy with.
The adjudicator called me and told me she would leave it with lloyds now has everyone involved has agreed to her outcome
Amber says
Took Lloyds 2 weeks and the overdraft money was refunded to me.
Rachel says
Hi Sara, We’ve exchanged several emails about our overdraft. It was taken out in 2003 (10K), reduced to 5K in 2009. Our initial claim was rejected by Natwest and I’ve now had an email from the person assigned to investigate the claim at the FOS:. They have said:
The rules say we can’t look at a complaint if it was made more than:
Six years after the event complained of; or if later
Three years from when the customer was aware, or ought reasonably to have been aware, of cause for complaint.
Before I can even consider the merits of the case and in particular the irresponsible lending or this overdraft, I must ensure that we review the jurisdiction first, and your complaint about irresponsible lending may not be something I can investigate due to them time thats passed. You initially took the overdraft out in 2003. This was reduced in 2009. There has been no more increases on the overdraft since you applied in 2003. This would mean you would have needed to bring your complaint to us by 2009 for us to be able to consider this inside of the six year rule.
I have asked NatWest if they consent to us investigating this part of your complaint however, I’ve not yet had a response. Once I do I can then look at what needs to happen next.
Could you offer any advice about this? How was I suppose to claim for something I didn’t know was wrong?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you go back and say:
I appreciate that going back more than 6 years requires us to have complained within 3 years of finding out we have a cause to complain – that is what we have done.
But our complaint is not just about the the limit set in 2003 and 2009. It is also about NatWest’s continued failure to review our joint overdraft.
I have read https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/290226/DRN5869499.pdf which says
“NatWest did have an obligation to monitor Miss K’s use of her overdraft facility.
Any fair and reasonable monitoring of Miss K’s overdraft facility would have resulted in NatWest being aware Miss K was in financial difficulty … by October 2014 at the absolute latest. So NatWest ought to have exercised forbearance from this point onwards.”
NatWest never made these checks on our account, not even when they were well aware that my husband suffered ill health in 2021. So the 6 year part of your rules should mean that you can always look at the failure of Natwest to do this in 2017-23, even if you decide you can’t look back further than 2017.
Rachel says
Thank you so much. Seems unfair that they will only go back 6 years – when most people don’t even know it is something they can complain about until they saw your article! I really appreciate your help.
Rachel says
Hi Sara, – had a reply from the Natwest:
You are correct in that NatWest should be able to consider the overdraft charges for six years prior to you complaining, however at this stage this is not what I’m trying to understand. I need to first rule on the six and three rule regarding the earlier overdraft and increases and whether I think they should be considered under with the entire complaint at hand.
NatWest haven’t yet responded regarding thier consent on this part, but in the case they don’t consent can I please ask you provide your comments on the below questions ahead of time:
When did you first become aware you had cause for complaint (rough month and year)? And why?
Why did you only bring this complaint to the NatWest/our service now? Why didn’t you raise a complaint with NatWest before now?
When did you first realise that you was struggling financially? If you was first struggling to manage the overdraft, why didn’t you think that NatWest had done anything wrong?
When did you feel that NatWest to blame for these concerns?
If we do consider it out, we’ll also need to ask if there is any exceptional circumstances which prevented you from again complaining during this time, can I please ask you to let me know if any exceptional circumstances stopped you from bringing this complaint earlier? An example of when this may apply is when a customer has been otherwise incapacitated and not in a position to contact the business about the issues they have.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At least they have agreed they can go back at least 6 years.
Here are some points other people have made, make sure what you say is exactly right for your case, add in in any dates or other points.
When did you first become aware you had cause for complaint (rough month and year)? And why?
say how and when you found out that NatWest should have checked your overdraft was affordable. Did you see the Guardian article? Did a friend/relative tell you. Did you see A referee on Instagram or Facebook? Say that was the point you realised NatWest was partly to blame for your money problems and that you could complain b
Why did you only bring this complaint to the NatWest/our service now? Why didn’t you raise a complaint with NatWest before now?
Because before then you thought high overdraft charges were normal because you had borrowed too much. You were trying to work your own way out of this and as you dud Realise NatWest had made an error, you didn’t know there was anything to complain about
When did you first realise that you was struggling financially? If you was first struggling to manage the overdraft, why didn’t you think that NatWest had done anything wrong?
This was probably in about 20xx. But I thought I needed to try to cut back and hoped a payrise would help. I didn’t think NatWest was at fault because I had no idea that they should have checked an overdraft limit wasn’t too high, not just when it was set but annually when they should have reviewed it.
When did you feel that NatWest to blame for these concerns?
When I found out about affordability complaints. That made me see the history of my NatWest overdraft in a new light. If NatWest had reviewed my overdraft usage it would have seen that it was impossible for me to get out of using it as it was too high in relation to my income. So either NatWest didn’t review my account at all, or if they did they can’t have done it properly. So I made a complaint.
If we do consider it out, we’ll also need to ask if there is any exceptional circumstances which prevented you from again complaining during this time, can I please ask you to let me know if any exceptional circumstances stopped you from bringing this complaint earlier?
Most people don’t have anything to say here
Rachel says
Hi Sara,
I have now heard back from the FOS – Natwest have agreed with the view that they should have reviewed our overdraft when my husband became ill in 2021 and therefore the FOS will be reviewing all the lending decisions and financial difficulty.
They have now asked that I send them a ‘Full Copy of your Credit Reports’. What is this? I don’t have one – is that going to compromise my claim?
Thank you again for all your help.
Rachel
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The simplest thing is to send FOS a Statutory Credit Report – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/best-way-to-check-credit-score/. Get your Experian and TransUnion ones and send the report that has got the most details, or both of them
AHB says
Hi Sara, please could you possibly advise on this? The Financial Ombudsman has been in touch about my complaint against Lloyds due to my overdraft running back to the early 2000s. Lloyds never contacted me once in nearly 20 years to discuss the overdraft. I didn’t ever think there was anything I could do about it. Please could you advise how best to respond to the questions below about why I didn’t complain earlier? I had genuinely no idea I could complain until I read your Guardian article this year. Lloyds have refunded my costs back to 2017 but it looks like they’re refusing to go further than that even though I had the overdraft for years before this date and have sent statements going back to the early 2000s to prove this.
This is from the Ombudsman:
Lloyds Bank Plc has been in touch to say that it believes this issue is out of our jurisdiction as the borrowing was provided more than six years ago.
As such, please can you confirm
When you first became aware of this issue
When you realized the overdraft was causing you financial difficulty
When you realized Lloyds bank’s actions (or its failure to act) might have caused you a loss, or caused financial difficulty
What has prompted you to complain now?
Did you discuss the financial difficulty with Lloyds at any point?
Are there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from complaining sooner?
If you are able to provide any pointers I’d be really grateful. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so here are some suggested replies but you need to put these into yuour own words and add any dates etc so that they are exactly right for your case.
When you first became aware of this issue
In May this year when I read a Guardian article “UK bank overdrafts: ‘I received £8,000 after I complained’”
When you realized the overdraft was causing you financial difficulty
I always knew I was paying overdraft charges but even though they were high that seemed normal because I had borrowed the money. I wanted to try to reduce my overdraft usage always hoping a pay rise might help but never managed it as my expenses also went up.
When you realized Lloyds bank’s actions (or its failure to act) might have caused you a loss, or caused financial difficulty
After reading the Guardian article a few months ago I realised that the overdraft limit itself had been set to such a high level that once in it I could not get out of it. And that lloyds were partly responsible for this, because they set the limit at a level that was too high for my income and later did not review this during the annual checks I now understand that they should have made. Anyone who had looked at my overdraft usage to decide if it was affordable would have seen that it wasn’t for me and that my usage was not short term but that I was dependent on it.
What has prompted you to complain now?
Reading that article and realising that I was in a similar situation and that I had a reason to complain.
Did you discuss the financial difficulty with Lloyds at any point?
No. I thought my money problems were my fault. I also thought I needed the overdraft and that it was helping me manage.
Are there any exceptional circumstances that prevented you from complaining sooner?
No [these are things like long term serious health problems or being in prison.]
AHB says
Hi Sara, thank you so much. This is really helpful. Best wishes, AHB.
Ann says
Hi Sara
I have had a letter from Lloyds and they have upheld my complaint about my overdraft and are refunding £599.23 in fees saying they should not have renewed my overdraft in December 2017 as it was clear I was struggling to manage the account. From my calculations I believe this refund to be correct as I have paid it off a few times with money transfers from credit cards etc
I know I don’t qualify for the interest as I owed them money but should I have expected an extra amount as compensation for the difficulties they put me in or is that just the usual recompense in this situation?
Also as they said I was struggling to manage my account in December 2017, would that mean I could put in an affordability complaint about a credit card they let me have in January 2018?
Thanks as always for your time
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large is your balance before this refund?
Can you say something about the credit card – how large was the limit at the start in 2018? Was this a 0% offer? Was the limit ever increased?
Did you ever have a loan from Lloyds (or Halifax or Bank of Scotland)?
Ann says
My overdraft is currently on a £1000, theyve said once the money is refunded the overdraft will be withdrawn and will be marked on credit report and I will need to take steps to pay it off.
The credit card was issued with £2600 limit and yes it was interest free for balance transfers for 15 months and purchases for 9 months.
Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“the overdraft will be withdrawn and will be marked on credit report”
how are they saying this will be marked on your credit report?
It is NOT normal to get extra compensation for the problems caused.
When the 0% period ended, did you then start paying interest or refinance this with another lender? If you have paid little or no interest, a complaint may not be worthwhile.
Owen says
Hi Sarah,
I am midway through paying an IVA off. Having had an overdraft with NatWest for 20 years and ended up being £4,000 before the IVA was set in place I’ll presuming there is no way I will ever be able to challenge NatWest for compensation?
Best,
Owen
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you do It will first reduce the Overdraft debt in your IVA. And any cash refund will be paid to your IVA. Probably not worth bothering with unless you expect to repay all your debts in full plus the IVA fees
james says
What a day.
The adjudicator has confirmed that NatWest have finally accepted her decisions (after a couple of extensions/further evidence). This equates to a refund of just over £20k.
It’s been left with NatWest to contact me. Do you know how long that usually takes to happen? Would it normally be by phone?
Thank you so much for all the help so far – the guardian article literally changed my life.
Thomas says
Hi James… really glad to hear this! I have a similar complaint ongoing with Natwest on overdraft and loans… what happened with your loans complaint… cheers
James says
Loans was upheld and so I have to repay the remaining capital (original loan value minus payments made). I.e. knock off all interest
Adjudicator made a decision, NatWest provided more evidence, adjudicator said doesn’t change anything
J says
Hi mate,
I have read a few of your posts as im in a similar situation regarding the gambling atleast, What ended up being said being the money coming in that could of paid off the debts a few times? mine was a 7.5k overdraft with various gambling withdrawals that almost cleared it various times, my other major worry is a £25k family loan i was given to clear my debts but i was subsequently back in my overdraft 3 months later, so curious if these are dealbreakers or not
Thankyou!
James says
Despite being natwests main point, the adjudicator didn’t address it head on, just said the that “it should’ve become evident that my use of the overdraft was unsustainable.”
These aren’t their words directly but reading between the lines they essentially said that the incoming payments were irrelevant because the level of gambling etc meant the cycle would just repeat, and that they didn’t stop the hardcore borrowing so they still should’ve reviewed it.
Pete says
Hi James,
Not sure if you’ll see this. However, how long did it take from when you complained to NatWest to getting a decision from the FOS?
I’m in a very similar position to you – I’ve paid £19.5k in interest to NatWest over 6 years. Complained on the 4th October, got my final response from NatWest on the 31st October (unsurprisingly rejecting my complaint). I raised a complaint with the FOS on the 1st November.
I’ve been consistently in my overdraft since December 2018. Prior to applying I had an extreme level of gambling prior and after applying (upwards of 20k incoming and outgoing). This continued for years and NatWest never reached out directly (just automated e-mails).
Cheers
Thomas says
Ah OK so they’ve knocked off all interest? That’s good as that’s what I was hoping for top. Great result for you… this website has been a massive help.
James says
Yeh. Basically said it’s only right I should pay back the capital, which it’s hard to argue with.
So overdraft is full refund of interest and charges since 2018 and loans I have to pay back remaining capital after payments already made taken in to account. And remove any negative info from credit record.
Kelly says
Hi Sara
I am unsure who to send my letter to within Lloyd’s bank to try to reclaim my overdraft fees.
I sent it to my local branch and received a phone call to say it was not something they could deal with and she would send it to the area manager. But I would be better to find the address and send it myself.
It is so hard to contact anyone or find an address or name.
Who has the authority to deal with these matters? The man on the switchboard said they don’t have any department that would deal with it and its not something they do. (Refund old interest)
But I’m in such a mess I am in danger of losing my house. The stress and worry is terrible to live with.
Kind regards for your help and your amazing website
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Kelly, in the article above there is a link to my page with email addresses to use.
There is no way to speed up a complaint and they can be slow. Good to get it started but it sounds as though you need some urgent help. Would you like to say more about your situation?
Gemma says
My complaint is with the ombudsman regarding NatWest overdraft. I have been asked why I did not contact the bank to raise concerns earlier than this year since the od has been in place since 2012. I was not aware I could complain until June this year after finding this website. I’m unsure how to explain this to the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Ombudsman normally asks several questions about timing?
thomas says
Hi Sara. Ombudsman has just picked up complaint and said- You believe NatWest allowed the lending of an overdraft facility and later overdraft limit increases without completing the proper checks to make sure the borrowing was affordable for you. You believe it should have been clear to NatWest that you had a history of ‘hardcore borrowing’ – which included missed payments/direct debits and gambling transactions – and this meant that NatWest were irresponsible in agreeing to the lending. You said you’d like NatWest to refund all interest, fees and charges added to the overdraft and loans, as well as to receive statutory interest. NatWest have let us know that you took out the overdraft on 2 June 2003 and the last overdraft limit increase was on 15 February 2016. You complained to them about the issue on 27 June 2023. The rules say we can’t look at a complaint if it was made more than: six years after the event complained of; or if later three years from when the customer was aware, or ought reasonably to have been aware, of cause for complaint. As the complaint was made more than six years after the event complained about (the initial lending and all limit increases), we may not be able to look into the complaint about the overdraft facility. – please let me know any details if this is relevant. What should I say about being out of time please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply along these lines, but make sure the words are right for your case and how you felt.
Until I found out about affordability complaints when [explain how you found out about affordability complaints – did you see the Guardian article on them in May? did you see claims company adverts on social media? did a friend tell you? just say how and when] I was unaware that a bank should have checked that overdrafts were affordable.
Up until this point, I had only blamed myself for using my NatWest overdraft so much that I was unable to get out of it. I always hoped that some combination of pay increase and expenses reductions would let me escape from this in at some point, but that until then all I could do was carry on each month and do my best. As soon as I heard what “hardcore borrowing” was, I realised that this had applied to me for many years and that NatWest should have spotted this.
I have read this decision which says that understand that “NatWest did have an obligation to monitor Miss K’s use of her overdraft facility.” They clearly cannot have monitored my overdraft usage at all or the unsustainable nature of the borrowing would have been obvious. As they should have done this annually, then I should at l;east be allowed to complain that they have failed to make this checks in each of the lst 6 years, as that would be within the FOS 6 year rukle.
However I do feel that it is only reasonable to go back further than 6 years as until earlier this year I was unaware that Natwest were partlyt to blame for my predicament and so I had no cause for complaint.
Thomas says
Hi Sara, thank you so much for this! Really appreciate it… ombudsman has come back and said they will now look into as well as the 2 loans natwest gave me and will split the 3 cases.
BP says
Hi,
So my ongoing issue with NatWest about my overdraft continues. Not having much luck with the FOS they have suggested that there are some aspects of my case they can look at but only if NatWest agrees. Which I guess is unlikely.
The interesting bit is that the FOS are saying they cannot look at the SAR elements of my complaint as that falls under the ICO remit, which I knew and have already complained to the ICO who made a ruling last night. In summary the ICO upheld 90% of my complaint and are investigation NatWest further for multiple issues including a data breach. However the ICO have also stated that they can’t look into any sort of personal resolution for my issues as that is within the remit of the Ombudsman or the courts
So I seem to be in a position where the Ombudsman is saying go to the ICO and the ICO are saying go to the Ombudsman or court???
Am I being stupid in saying to the Ombudsman that given the ICO finding against NatWest, and given that the ICO does not have the remit to resolve individual cases. The Ombudsman should now look at this issue?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
However the ICO have also stated that they can’t look into any sort of personal resolution for my issues as that is within the remit of the Ombudsman or the courts
I suggest you tell the Ombudsman this.
But I wouldn’t get too hung up on the SAR issues – they are annoying but the reall redress will come not from these but from the overdraft complaint. You can reasonably say to FOS that you think NatWest have handled the complaint very poorly and you feel you should get some compensation for this.
BP says
Hi Sara
Was worried you would say that, think its unlikely that the Ombudsman are going to look that this. They are saying that they can only look at a limited period of charges in 2019 due to a previous complaint that was rejected and that is only if NatWest agree which I am sure they will object to.
JS says
I have a current case in with Natwest surrounding both a £7500 overdraft and a £7500 loan given to me at the same time on a wage of just £2000 with a gambling problem after both of these i was also given a 0% credit card with a limit of £6000, is it worth putting a claim in for this? As the 0% is up in a few months but obviously i have only been charged the 3% transfer fee so far! not sure if they can cancel any interest i would need to pay on it without it affecting my credit report. Thankyou Sara
Sara (Debt Camel) says
after both of these i was also given a 0% credit card
By Natwest? or who?
JS says
Apologies yes by Natwest, which would of been my 5th 0% credit card at the time, all of which being fully utilized unfortunately! So at one point i would of had a £7500 overdraft, £7500 loan and £6000 credit card all with natwest, i paid off the loan 2 months ago (funnily enough most of those payments came out of my overdraft!)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest making a complaint about the Natwest 0% card now – they should have realised from your overdraft that you had a gambling problem and should not have offered you this new credit. Change the template to say not that you want a refund but ask them to agree to let you pay off the balance at 0% interest at an affordable rate without this affecting yiour credit score.
james says
Been a couple of weeks since the FOS (adjudicator) confirmed Natwest agreed with their overdraft decision. They said they’ll now leave it to Natwest to sort but it’s two weeks on and not heard a peep from Natwest. I know they theoretically have 4 weeks, but would you have expected them to have contacted me by now?
Thanks
Gergo says
Dear Sarah
I’m just about to make an affordability complaint at Lloyds. I have used your template earlier with Monzo and went to Ombudsman, that’s still ongoing but it looks like they will rule in my favour. Also had a successful complaint at Safety Net and Amigo, just wanted to mention and say a big Thank you Sarah :)
Regarding Lloyds it’s slightly different because I started with £500 overdraft approx in 2015/2016 and constantly increased it to around £3000, can’t remember the exact amount. I used it for couple of years on a daily basis.
But some time later Lloyds sent a loan offer to me which I accepted and that decreased my overdraft back to £500 (which I later reduced to £400 and still on that amount today) but had difficulties to pay that loan as well.
They closed it and sent it to debt collectors who sent me 4 letters demanding money but I ignored them as I believe they’re 3rd party interlopers who I have nothing to do with and then a bit later I received a letter from Lloyds that I don’t need to pay back anything as they realised this wasn’t the right loan for me and few months ago they even sent an extra £800 to my account.
So my question is that should I mention this in the complaint at all or just follow your template and guides?
Do you have any other suggestions to include or not include in my complaint?
Any advice is appreciated.
Gergo
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What date roughly was the loan? How large was the balance that Lloyds wrote off? Have you asked Lloyds for an explanation of the £800?
Gergo says
Around 2021/2022
I paid roughly half of it. I didn’t ask them about the £800, I thought they know what they’re doing :)
James says
Did Monzo reply to you? Haven’t bothered with me after over 20 weeks. AdjudicTor having to investigate from scratch
Gergo says
Yes they did but weeks after the deadline. They emailed me about the delay though. The reason I went to ombudsman because they rejected my complaint..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I don’t see why you shouldn’t complain about the overdraft. But I cant guess what Lloyds will say about the loan write off or the £800. Complain and see what happens?
Gergo says
Yes I will complain anyway, just wanted to ask your opinion
Katie says
In 2008 I had an account with Lloyds. There was a £3000 overdraft outstanding but I was never chased by Lloyds over it. Now I am receiving emails from Opus regarding this debt. First asking for £3200 then half. I have not replied. Why would they suddenly start about a 15 year old debt?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
i assume this debt no longer shows on your credit record?
Katie says
No nothing on there
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you talk To National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 about whether this debt is so old it is statute barred. If ND think it is, they have a template letter you can send Opus.
james says
Posted a few times here.
Agreed with Natwest and FOS to refund all interest and charges. It’s been 2.5 weeks.
Yesterday I recieved a “S/C Refund” of £570. However, I was expecting circa £21k back! I’m really hoping S/C is something like service charge, and the interest refund will follow shortly. I can’t get hold of anyone at Natwest who seems to know.
Any advice from anyone?! Bit worried.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Googling suggests that this may be a refund of charges for a packaged bank account… but I think you have to wait and see,
Emma says
I have had an email from the ombudsman to say that Natwest have confirmed they do not agree with complaint looking being looked into as the overdraft dates back to 2012. However the ombudsman states that DISP 2.8.2R (2)(b) allows longer than 6 years and because I only became aware of my right to complain in 2023 tgey will consider my complaint and have give Natwest until the end of October to respond. Has anyone had a similar situation?
Jessica says
Hi,
I have made an affordability complaint to TSB this week after seeing this and have used the template. I have been in an overdraft of over £3k for over 15 years, taking out loans to clear the overdraft but this has slowly increased back up. I have finally got to the stage where enough is enough as I am struggling financially after being paid each month, paying off a loan, overdraft charges and trying to reduce the OD Balance. After I sent my complaint to TSB on Wednesday, I received a call the same day from someone stating that my complaint is being looked into and I will receive a final response by Monday next week – which is quick. Is this a good sign, I have prepped all documents, statements etc to immediately send to the FOS should I not receive a offer.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this a good sign
Not really – it doesn’t make it more likely that they are going to reject it or uphold it.
Were the loans you took from TSB to clear the overdraft? If they were, you may also have a potential complaint about them/
Jessica says
Yes the last loan I took out in 2020 was to clear off the £3k overdraft and another loan which I had previously took out
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then if paying this loan caused you to go back into your overdraft, perhaps it was unaffordable? So make a complaint about that? See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. If you do, say in your complaint that you have already made a complaint about your overdraft and are now raising this separate complaint.
Jessica says
So tsb promised to call me back Monday not heard from them I understand they have 8 weeks to respond is this correct or can I just fire off my complaints to fos
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to wait for a rejection from TSB, or 8 weeks if they haven’t replied by then. Too early to go to FOS.
Jessica says
Thanks Sara, shall I do this as a fresh complaint or include when they contact me next week about the overdraft
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would kick it off now.
Jessica says
2nd complaint gone to tsb re the loans, will keep everyone updated once I hear back I assume they will dispute but all my documents are ready to send to the ombudsman:)
JJ says
Is there an expected timeframe once your case has been allocated? I have two seperate cases now that were picked up a month ago and haven’t heard anything so not sure if i should email for any potential updates? Thankyou!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not really.
I would contact the investigator/adjudicator and ask if there is any other information that you can provide.
Dawn says
Hi I got refused a refund by NatWest so I have gone to the fos they are saying that NatWest turned down an application for an increase for my overdraft from £1950 to £2500. My question is, is this a good thing for my claim? I was in financial difficulties at the time 2016 and taking out payday loans but even though they turned down my application they did not make no attempt to help my financial situation by stopping my interest. Will this work in my favour? Thanks for your help dawn
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is FOS saying that you should have complained in 2016?
Dawn says
Yes that’s the impression I got from the email
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back and say that when NatWest rejected the increase you asked for, they did not give a reason and they did not suggest that you should ctake debt advice. [NB I assume that was the case??]. If they had said it was because they had checked and it would be unaffordable, that may have prompted you to wonder if the existing limit of 1950 was “affordable”. But they didn’t, so as at the time you had no idea that a bank sghould have checked a limit would be manageable for you to use and repay, you did not have any reason to make a complaint.
Add that you made a complaint in month/year which was soon after heard about a bank’s duty to make sure overdrafts were affordable when you [rwad an article in a newspaper about it, saw a post on social media about it, heard from a fried that they had got a refund…]
JAC says
Hi Sarah,
I’m currently in an IVA bit hunk I may have a case for the above with my old Bank HSBC with who I was in a constant overdraft each month and had £3.5k credit card. Can you advise why I shouldn’t claim
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can if you want, but any refund will first reduce your HSBC debt in the IVA and after that be paid to your IVA firm, not to you.
Unless you are near to repaying your debts in the IVA IN FULL plus the IVA fees, this will not improve your situation by ending your IVA early or reducing your IVA payments.
mylo2404 says
Hi Sara,
I am just preparing a letter to Nat west with all of the above help, thank you, but do I mention anywhere about the Ombudsman or just wait for their initial reply.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No need to mention the Ombudsman. NatWest knows you have the right to go to FOS.
mylo2404 says
Great, thx, but I’m struggling to get the email address! It’s nowhere in the app and I have just received a reply stating that they do not have an email address to send any correspondence. She has given me a phone number to call, but I do not want to speak over the phone. I am now waiting to see if I can send it through their message channel. She asked me what it was regarding, so I told her. I have nothing to hide and I want to send my complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have a list of bank email addresses – there is a link to it in the article above
mylo2404 says
Is this ok?
To whom it may concern,
I am making an affordability complaint about the overdraft on my current account number + I put my details
Overdrafts are meant for short-term borrowing but that was not what I was using the account for. The fees and charges you were adding were making my position worse.I am complaining that every year since my overdraft was initially given, you have failed to notice my difficulty during the annual reviews of my overdraft. You should have offered forbearance eg by stopping interest and charges being added.I have been in my overdraft constantly for many years not getting back into the black even when money was deposited from my benefits. This “hardcore borrowing” is a clear sign of financial difficulty. My income is not much every month – after I had paid my rent, bills, there was no way I could hope to clear an overdraft of £2150 in a reasonable length of time.Another clear sign of me struggling is noticing how often my direct debits are not being paid.
With all of the above taken into consideration, I would like you to refund all the interest and charges that were added to my account from the date that my initial overdraft was increased and when you should have realised that my finances had got worse to the point that I was no longer able to clear the overdraft.
You should never have given me an account with such a large overdraft. When I initially applied you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen that I had very bad credit. You should not have increased my overdraft from the £250 I was given initially.
I do not know the exact months of these overdraft limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me when the increases were and how much the limit went up on each occasion, which was more than once or twice-it just kept being increased with no issue at all.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if that describes you case, then it sounds like a good complaint!
Mylo2404 says
Hi Sara,
Nat west have tried to call me, but not recognising the number, I never answered. They then sent a message stating the below:-
We tried to contact you regarding your overdraft interest claim. We require more information Please call 01613991612
I have messaged them on their app asking them to email me with their queries, or should I call them.
Thx
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it’s up to you. The simplest thing is often to call – have a pen and paper handy so you can write down any queries. But unless they are very obvious, I suggest you say you would rather reply in writing as you aren’t good on the phone.
mylo2404 says
Thank you so much Sara
Mylo2404 says
Hi Sara,
I have had a negative response from Nat West, where it seems that I have just missed out on the six year threshold!(below).
Can you please advise on what I should do now? Do I just accept it.
I have only attached part of their response, although there is a part where they state that I should not have accepted the overdraft if I could not afford it or if I was going to get myself in financial difficulties. They knew I was disabled and on benefits, as this was my only source of income.
Reply from Nat West on next message.
Mylo2404 says
I have looked at your account history in respect of the overdrafts agreed on your account, ending 7897, however I’m unable to investigate them for you. The reason for this is because it falls outside the time limits set by the Financial Conduct Authority for us to review complaints. These being if what you’re complaining about happened more than six years ago, and if you’re complaining more than three years after you realised, (or should have realised); that there was a problem.
I have checked our records and can see that the last recorded successful overdraft application, which was approved on your account, ending 7897, was for £2150 on 2 August 2017– this was over 6 years ago. I can see from my records that you were incurring monthly interest and charges in respect of your overdraft in 2016,2017,2018,2019 & 2020 so you would have received a monthly charges notification statement. In addition I can see that you spoke to our ‘Debt Management Team’ in December 2018 about your overdraft– so you were aware of its existence and more importantly its impacts and could have raised your concerns within a reasonable timescale i.e., within 3 years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what happened when you spoke to their debt management team in 2018?
Mylo2404 says
Sara,
I do not even recall talking to anyone back then, or at anytime to be quite honest, it was always a subject I avoided. Of course I was aware of the overdraft-I was constantly in it, but nobody has actually spoken to me about it.
Mylo2404 says
Sara,
This is what they decided to send me today:
NatWest –
We’re here to help you reduce your overdraft usage.
Overdrafts are meant for short-term borrowing; for example, an unexpected bill the week before payday. There might be other forms of borrowing that could be better value for you.
If you’re relying on your overdraft too often, we could help you with your usage by calling 0800 029 4219.
Did you know that over the last 12 months you have paid £736.12 in overdraft interest and fees? Your current usage may be costing you more than it needs to.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok send this straight to to Ombudsman. You won’t get Natwest to change their mind.
Say you don’t think you did speak to their debt management team in 2018 – you tried to avoind talking to the bank back then as you were worried they would remove the overdraft you were depending on [if that is the case?]
Is it correct that you didnt pay any overdraft charges in 2021 or 2022?
Mylo2404 says
So what do I send to the ombudsman-sorry!
I have paid overdraft charges every single month since I’ve had my overdraft.
Ryan757 says
Hi Sara,
Does me living abroad affect anything?
Have had a UK overdraft since May 2022 and built it up to £2000, paying over £50 a month interest to avoid going into unarranged territory. No communication from bank on affordability + gambling transactions. Just unsure if the fact I moved abroad in 2022 would affect anything.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this isn’t your main bank account? That and the fact this is all very recent are likely to be your main problem. The majority of these complaints are made about people’s main bank account, where the affordability is clear as their main income is being paid in.
Which is the bank. Does it provide gambling blocks and have you switched them on now?
Richard says
Hi Sara.
I’ve had a claim in for my £2700 OD that I’ve had since 2011 ish. Now Halifax have excepted my claim and paid me out automatically. But only for last 6 years. I understand that’s all they have to. But I know I can go to the ombudsman. I sent final letter off the the ombudsman. And they finally replied more or less saying that they can’t uphold the previous years. I’ve explained to them that as soon as I Found out I could put a claim in and complain I did. Well within the 3 years of me being aware. But they are saying in their opinion they think I should have been aware that I could complain. Basically they can’t help with the previous years.
Is there anything I can say or word in order to change this?
Seems a little unfair as I’ve stayed within the time restraints.
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this decision from an investigator / adjudicator? or is it from an Ombudsman?
Richard says
From an investigator
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can ask for the decision to be looked at by an Ombudsman. Did the investigator ask you questions about when you realised you had problems with the overdraft – what questions were these?
Richard says
No question were asked. I sent them the letter. Explaining what Halifax said. And that I made the claim as soon as I was aware. Didn’t come back and ask questions. Just when it first got picked up by the investigator. She said I have all info I need. And will be in touch shortly.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is unusual. Go back to the investigator and say that [assuming this is correct of course] although you have known for years that the overdraft was expensive and very hard to clear, you thought this was your fault because you had borrowed too much. You did not think that Halifax were partly to blam for not making affordability checks because you had no idea that your overdraft was supposed to reviewed every year. So as you didn’t think Halifax had done anything wrong, you had no reason to complain.
Ask for the case to be sent to an Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesnt change their mind.
Richard says
Thanks you for this.
DD says
How long did it take from making your claim with Halifax to them accepting? Did they accept your claim without having to go to FoS? I’ve just submitted my claim with Halifax and sounds promising if they pay out for some cases that are clearly right. Hope you get the rest of your claim for previous years
Sahil says
Hi dear sara
Today received reply from investigator fos
And she said tsb should refund the overdraft charges from October 2018
Remember i am using the overdraft from 2014 £3000
I forgot to tell investigator that i was asylum seeker from 2014 with no work allowed and have been in my financial difficulties paying halifax tsb aqua barclays… charges
Please would you guide what should i do as the bank never check immigration status and they give me overdraft without checking it i have proves about my asylum and i obtained my visa in 2018
I believe bank should have checked everything before giving the services
Please if you can comment would very kind of you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should go back to the investigator and explain this.
Also explain that as an asylum seeker, you have been doing your best to improve your finances, but you had no idea about what British banks should do when they give someone an overdraft so you did not at that point think that TSN had done anything wrong. Say you have complained as soon as you realised that TSB had not made the proper checks.
And ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the investigator doesn’t change their mind.
Sahil says
Hi thanks for the reply for sure i will go to obdusman because the refund amount is nearly £3k and will update the outcome thanks allot for your time
Stay blessed
Sahil says
Hi dear sara
I called today the investigator
She gave me her decision last week
That bank should refund the money from 2018 not from 2014
When i give her the new information she said now she can’t look into the complaint because she has already given her decision
And she said even obdusman cant look back 6 years as i was agree with her to check for the last 6 years
In her 2nd last email before the decision she never said if I agree to go for 6 years i cannot go back to 2014
It was a totally miscommunication
And before she give the final decision i send her email as well i have new information to add but she never contacted me and gave her decision
Now my question is let say i will get upto 5 years of refund can i complaint again to fos or should i take the bank to the court because i am not happy with the decision at the moment i have to accept it
As she said obdusman will take months and they will just decide yes or no with her decision
It was totally unfair with me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Ombudsman will look properly at this case – I don’t know what the result will be as you have brought up this new point about going back more than 6 years at the last moment, but it is your right to have it considered.
JJ says
Hi Sara,
Is it normal that the investigator in both my cases (overdraft and loan) hasn’t asked me any questions? Other than for clarification on why i have claimed and my credit report/employer details at the very beginning.
Thankyou!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were the accounts opened in the last 6 years? Was the loan from your bank?
JJ says
The account has been open for atleast 13 years, but my overdraft claim is about having a £7500 overdraft (increased from £6000 in 2020) whilst earning no more than £2000 a month (more often £1000) whilst having a gambling problem into the tens of thousands over the last few years. As for the loan, it was £7500 and was given to me 2-3 years ago by the same bank yes, whilst i was almost -£6000 into my overdraft with various other credit cards maxed out. Both the investiagors only asked for information when they were first given the cases (almost 2 months ago now), i recently emailed about the overdraft for an update and was told NatWest wanted up to the 2nd of November to supply some documents he needs to finish the investigation, but nothing from me. I honestly thought i had a really good case for inaffordabiltiy so i’m suprised i haven’t been asked anything.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So what are are complaining about is very recent. Banks normally supply statements for overdraft complaints.
I suggest you ask the investigator for the loan if there is any information you can supply.
JB says
Hello,
I had an affordability complaint for an overdraft with Natwest upheld by the FOS investigator, and Natwest had until 23rd Oct to provide further evidence/disagree or accept the outcome. I’ve not heard anything since – do you know how long usually the FOS would take to let me know if they’ve pushed back further or if Natwest have accepted the outcome?
I also have an outstanding complaint for a loan from Natwest, which they had until 20th Oct to provide information to the FOS on, but I’ve heard nothing more on that one either.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There aren’t any set timescales. I would ask your adjudicators what is happening in another week.
AB says
I seem to have reached a stalemate about the three year rule with an investigator at the FOS regarding my complaint about my overdraft with Lloyds that goes back to 2002. They are saying that I should have been aware that I had cause to complain much earlier so I’m therefore outside the 3 year rule. I have written a lengthy explanation saying that I had no idea I could complain prior to reading your article in the Guardian and that I then complained immediately (ie. within 3 years).
Their argument is that simply by having the overdraft for a long time and seeing the fees and charges that I should have realised I had cause to complain. We are going backwards and forwards. Do you have any advice please? Also is an Investigator actually an Ombudsman? It’s not been made clear to me.
And just to say that Lloyds have refunded me my charges back to 2017 very quickly but refuse to go further back at the moment. Many thanks again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So I don’t know what you have already said. The point to make is that although you knew you were in financial difficulty in 2015 (or whenever), you thought it was your own fault because you had used the overdraft too much so you only blamed yourself. You only realised that Lloyds were partly to blame when you read the guardian article on overdraft refunds this year and you then complained promptly.
Ask for the decision to go to an Ombudsman if the investigator doesn’t change their mind.
An “Investigator” is the first stage of the FOS process. Sometimes also called an Adjudicator. If agreement cannot be reached at this stage, it goes to the second level where it is looked at by an Ombudsman.
AB says
Thank you – this is really helpful.
Adam AN says
HI, if I complain, will they remove / reduce/ change the overdraft amount lended? I need the overdraft money in the short term whilst the complaint is being processed, as well as the refund. Thanks!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read the FAQs here https://debtcamel.co.uk/affordability-complaint-credit-record-faqs/
Adam AN says
Thanks, I am unable to find an answer on whether they remove the overdraft if I complain in that? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it does cover that!
“For overdrafts, banks will normally reduce your overdraft limit, sometimes removing it, after your balance is reduced. Again this doesn’t seem to be a problem and most people are very happy with the result.”
Mark says
Following my complaint to santander ,they refunded only the last 2 years.I sent it off to the FOS saying i wanted refunds going back to when they last increased it (2008) .but in santanders intial reply there records only go back to 2014 ,so i requested refunds from then .FOS have replied saying they agree with bank and that i should have complained earlier including that I had previous complaints about pay loans and I should have known about complaining before.
They say I can forward thier decision to a Ombudsman with further info but i dont know what further info they would want.
And does the ombudsman ever overrule.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It can be hard to win complaints where you had previously made affordability complaints about payday loans.
You should also point out that Santander has failed to review your overdraft every year… and that you feel the last 6 years reviews all fall within “complaining about something that has happened in the last 6 years” so that you should be refunded for the last 6 years even if FOS decides it cannot go back further.
Mark says
That say because my complaint is something that happened more than 6 years ago (2014)they cant look at it and that september 2020 was the latest i could have done.Snce they refunded the last two years they will now take away the overdraft service completly but this is the only commincation ive ever had with them about overdraft
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You need to be clear that part of your complaint is that Santander failed to review your overdraft adequately in each of the last 6 years, from 2017. So these 6 failures all happened within the last 6 year so you should be entitled to get a refund for those years.
DD says
This is interesting about being more difficult to win cases on things like overdraft charges if you’ve already complained to FOS for payday loans. I did this in 2018 for various payday loans, so will that make any claims I have around my overdraft more difficult to win?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should still be able to go back 6 years. It is going back further that seems to be the problem.
Mark says
In the FOS reply it does clearly mention the bank are partly to blame but they have acted accordinly by refunding the last two years because they realised only from 2021 they should have interviened.
They also add that the time ive complained (over 6 years) means the complaint was out of there juristriction.
But i have replied saying i have had no communication or review over the last 6 years apart from when they were notified via my initial complaint this year.
So i have asked for refunds back to 2017 for the reasons mentioned.
Andy says
Hi Sara, thank you for the advice you post on this website. I complained to Halifax about an overdraft and CC which was rejected due to being over the 6 year limit. After sending this to the FOS they have provided the following response:
“You’ve complained more than six years after the charges applied to your overdraft for account ending ### between 2009, when your overdraft was arranged, and 2017. As these charges would’ve been notified to you around the time they were being applied, I think that you knew enough to decide whether you thought they were excessive, unfair, or keeping you in debt. As this is the case, I don’t think that three years from when you were aware (or you ought reasonably to have become aware) you had reason to complain provides you with longer and I think you complained about the charges applied to your overdraft before 19 July 2017 too late.
We can look at a late complaint if exceptional circumstances were responsible for this. You have stated that you had always blamed yourself for the spiral of debts at the time and thought it was purely your own responsibility given your gambling had caused it. You then state that you were made aware by your partner who came across a post on Instagram from Debt Camel at the beginning of July 2023 and that she advised you that you should look into this further, as you had recently made her aware of your previous financial situation.
I’ve thought carefully about what you have said but I don’t think this reason would constitute exceptional circumstances or means that we can consider the complaint. The rule about the time limit doesn’t relate to when a consumer became aware they could make a complaint, but when they aware were of a problem or ought to have reasonably known of a problem and so a cause to complain, and that the lender is at least partly responsible. And it isn’t necessary for a consumer to know about the concept of irresponsible lending or that a lender could be held accountable for it to be aware of a problem and a reason to complain.”
My initial thought about this is I believe the assumptions this investigator is making is that I was of sound mind and could consider my options thoroughly at the time. But as I told them I had a gambling addiction and mental health issues at the time. Do you think arguing this in my response to the Ombudsman would counter their point? Is there anything else I could argue in my response to them from what they have said?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should go back and say that you disagree that the fact the overdraft charges were high meant that you thought they were excessive or unfair – you thought they were normal and that at that time you thought you were being kept in debt because you had used the overdraft too much and because of your gambling, not because the bank had done anything wrong. So you didn’t have any reason to complain about something you felt was self-inflicted.
And add that your gambling addiction and mental health problems meant that you were always just trying to get through for longer when you expected a big win would resolve your situation and clear the overdraft and you would be able to stop. These prevented you from stepping back and being able to think about your situation clearly, so you think they also count as exceptional circumstances.
Ask for this to go to an Ombudsman if the investigator doesnt change their mind.
Wayne says
Hi Sara,
I am looking into raising a complaint to HSBC who I stopped banking with around 2011-2012 and Santander whom I have been with since.
With both banks I was constantly in a large overdraft and regularly increasing limits.
For HSBC I have no statements only the account information. Would it possible for to request a SAR from them, would they still be holding any information on my account ?
For Santander i may have deleted most of the comms in relation to my overdraft and statements. Do you think it will be possible to request statement etc going back 10 years.
Overdraft costs with these 2 banks over the last 15 years would have cost me thousands.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can ask HSBC but it’s unlikely they have records for an account closed over 10 years ago.
How many days a month on average are you in your overdraft with Santander?
JJ says
Does an ‘internal discussion’ mean anything in particular? when i asked my case handler for an update his response was that he was having an internal discussion next week, mind its been with him for almost 2 months now. Thankyou!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not that I am aware of.
DD says
For the 6year general rule of thumb, is this more to do with how far back you want to claim, or, is it how many years have past since the lender increased your overdraft limit? I opened my Halifax account in 2014 and over the next couple of years the limit increased to £3400, in June 2021 they reduced the limit to around £1000. I’ve made my complaint to Halifax, going back from October this year to October 2017 saying I would like a refund on all charges etc from October 2017 until now. Is that right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well it’s a bit of both.
Then there is the 3 year rule – when should you have realised you could complain. Luckily you are within 3 years of the 2021 reduction in your limit – if that was longer ago Halifax would say you have left it too long to complain… which you could argue agains5, but it’s good that complication doesn’t apply to you.
But if you think a 6 year refund would be a good result, then asking for that is sensible
DD says
Could Halifax argue that after 2021 I should have realised after they messaged me to say they had reviewed my spending habits and as such reduced the overdraft? I think that’s the ironic part as from 2017 until June 2021 I was constantly at the limit of my overdraft. Only when I went into the black did they finally reduce the limit
Sara (Debt Camel) says
June 21 is within the last three years, so that shouldn’t be a an issue.
You are overthinking this. Just make the complaint and see how they reply.
Chloe says
Hi Sara,
The adjudicator rejected my OD compliant and so have the Ombs. It is a provisional decision and they’ve said I can go back if I have anything further…
They have basically said;
Between December 2018 and January 2020 Mrs W doesn’t go over her overdraft limit. Between February 2020 and October 2020 (excluding May 2020) she goes overdrawn once per month. Each time, she brings the balance back below the overdraft in ten days or less. She goes over her agreed overdraft limit again in April 2023, but again reduces it back below the limit in ten days or less.
Across a four-and-a-half-year period, Mrs W has exceeded her overdraft eight times but has brought her account back under the limit promptly each time. This suggests she was actively managing her accounts, and I’m not sure it’s sufficient to suggest RBS should know or reasonably have known she was in financial difficulties. Mrs W made regular credits into the account to keep it below the limit in all other months, and on quite a few occasions the account was in credit from February 2021 onwards.
The account was regularly at or close to her overdraft as she’s mentioned, but Mrs W hasn’t consistently stayed over her overdraft limit. She’s not received any defaults and she’s regularly managed the account by making payments to it to keep things in check. So, I’m not satisfied there was enough of a trigger for RBS to realise Mrs W may have been in financial difficulties.
———————————————————–
Is there anything I can say back to that?
The limit was 1250 and every month I’d put 50 in to try and not get charged but it’s been pretty much at it’s limit and sits at 1200 and has done for the last 3 years.
Is not not long term hardcore borrowing?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was this an account that you were actively using? Did your pay go into there?
Did you have any other borrowing from RBS or NAtwest?
Chloe says
It wasn’t my main account. No pay went in.
I had one NatWest account that was in its overdraft too. That wasn’t my main account either.
The NatWest complaint was agreed.
The RBS rejected
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So decisions where little or no income is being paid in are difficult as RBS couldn’t know that you were in financial difficulty as it couldnt see much about your finances.
But it could see you were using the account constantly.
I think you should go back and argue that overdrafts are meant for short term borrowing and after so many years RBS could see this is not what yours was being used for. You could point out that the RBS website (https://www.rbs.co.uk/current-accounts/overdrafts.html) currently says “Think of it as a short-term safety net for your current account. “
JE says
I’m in battle with natwest. Have a £2000 overdraft Began at 500 pounds in 2018 and steadily increased. It’s not my main account. I have a natwest joint account with my husband which pays all the bills and we live from so to speak. That’s not overdrawn but literally finishes at end of every month with pennies left to spare. My overdraft account regularly goes into unauthorised to the pint that any money I can afford to put on there temporarily covers the fees and interest then the cycle repeats ….. I used your template letter as I am sure natwest will have noticed or should have noticed that any larger funds paid into that account were from dreaded payday loans. The reply from natwest came back the same day rejecting my complaint. Followed by the first ever ‘how can we help you’ generic email from a no reply address. Followed a day later by the dreaded £60 pound charge/fees which have now led to me being in unauthorised territory again! I have sent this to FOS to see if they can help but am worried sick!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So are you in this overdraft account every day of the month?
JE says
I am stuck in the cycle of overdraft. My account has been overdrawn every day since 2018. Apart from the odd few days when I have used expensive payday loans to try and sort. And then spirals again :(
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So quite right to send this to the Ombudsman. Let me know how this goes!
Richard says
Hi Sara. I went back to the investigator on my claim. And explained what you told me to say regarding not being aware that the Halifax should doing yearly check and reviews on my overdraft. So thought it was my problem and my debt to deal with. And I think she should change her mind on going back past the 6 years that the Halifax already paid me on.
And the investigator said. That because ive made claims before that the OB have dealt with. Then in her eyes I could have been aware I can make these sort claims and should have known.
These claims I’ve made before are on payday loans. And it was very well advertised that claims could be made. I had no idea about overdraft claims.
Can the investigator compare these and say I should have known. Seems unfair and shouldn’t be compared surely.
Thanks in advance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ask for this to go to an Ombudsman.
Richard says
I have done thank you. Just don’t get it really. How can she say just because I’ve had payday loans claims go to the FOS. And for this reason I should have known earlier About my overdraft and the avenues I could have taken regarding complainting.
Don’t get how this is comparable. Especially when claiming for PDL was all over news wise.