Have you had big overdraft problems for a long period?
You can make an affordability complaint and ask for a refund of overdraft charges if:
- your overdraft limit was increased to a level you are unable to clear; or
- your overdraft usage showed you were in long-term financial distress. For example, being in the overdraft all the time, or using an unauthorised overdraft a lot.
This article shows how to make an affordability complaint to your bank, with a free template letter to use.
These complaints do not hurt your credit record.
Contents
Overdraft affordability complaints
Overdrafts are supposed to be for short term borrowing
Overdrafts are intended to be used for short-term problems, not as long-term borrowing. A bank should review a customer’s repayment record and overdraft limit and if there are signs of financial difficulty, offer help.
One sign of financial difficulty is hardcore borrowing for a long period. The Lending Code defined hardcore borrowings as “the position where a customer’s current account overdraft remains persistently overdrawn for more than a month without returning to credit during that period”.
Some Ombudsman decisions
All cases are very individual. But these examples give you an indication of what the Ombudsman thinks is important.
In this 2020 NatWest decision, the Ombudsman decided:
NatWest did have an obligation to monitor Miss K’s use of her overdraft facility.
Any fair and reasonable monitoring of Miss K’s overdraft facility would have resulted in NatWest being aware Miss K was in financial difficulty … by October 2014 at the absolute latest. So NatWest ought to have exercised forbearance from this point onwards.
In this 2021 Santander case, the bank didn’t notice hardcore borrowing:
By this point, Miss C was hardcore borrowing. In other, words she hadn’t seen or maintained a credit balance for an extended period of time. Santander’s own literature suggests that overdrafts are for unforeseen emergency borrowing not prolonged day-to-day expenditure. So I think that Miss C’s overdraft usage should have prompted Santander to have realised that Miss C wasn’t using her overdraft as intended and shouldn’t have continued offering it on the same terms.
A similar decision was reached in this 2021 Lloyds case:
Mr and Mrs C’s statements leading up to the renewal shows they hadn’t really had a credit balance on their account for a prolonged period. Indeed, they’d had regular returned payments and had also exceeded their limit. In these circumstances, it ought to have been apparent Mr and Mrs C were unlikely to be able to repay what they owed within a reasonable period with overdraft interest, fees and associated charges continuously being added.
Decide which reasons apply to your overdraft complaint
Read through these and think about which apply to your case.
The bank set your limit too high
This may have been from the start when you were first given an overdraft. Or the initial low limit may have been fine, then the bank increased it to a level which it was impossible for you to repay.
If the bank saw signs of financial difficulty, it should not have increased your credit limit, even if you asked for it. And it should have considered offering your help (the regulator’s word is forbearance) for example by stopping adding charges.
How high is too high?
There is no set figure, it depends on your income and expenses. An overdraft of £2,000 for someone whose income is £1,800 a month is a lot – but if you earn £5,000 a month, then a £2,000 overdraft may be reasonable.
The bank should have seen you were in difficulty
Overdrafts are meant to be used when you have a problem. Using the overdraft a lot for a few months is fine. Or for a few days at the end of a month before you are paid.
Banks should review your overdraft annually. This is in most overdraft tgerms and conditions. And even if it isn’t the Ombudsman says this is good industry practice.
So at one of these reviews, your bank should have seen if you were in financial distress. For example if you are in the overdraft for all (or almost all) of the month for a prolonged period. Or if you were exceeding your arranged overdraft limit regularly for a significant amount.
I would say over a year is prolonged.
Other points that help your complaint
You don’t win an affordability complaint by saying the charges were too high.
Instead, you say the bank should have known they were unaffordable for you because of all the financial problems it could see on your statements and your credit record.
Here is a checklist, work out if any of these apply to you:
- often having direct debits or standing orders not being paid;
- a lot of gambling showing on your statements;
- significantly increasing other debts with the same bank;
- being recently rejected for a loan or a credit card by the bank;
- significantly increasing debts with other lenders showing on your credit record;
- a worsening credit record – maxed out credit cards, new missed payments, defaults etc;
- using payday loans;
- increasing mortgage arrears;
- making payment arrangements with other creditors;
- a reduction in the income going into your account.
Any of these suggests you are reliant on the overdraft to pay everyday bills and you will find it hard or impossible to repay the overdraft and not use it the next month.
If you can think of another reason your bank should have known you were in trouble.
Making your complaint
What you need at the start
You don’t need to know the exact dates your limit was increased before complaining.
If you have paper statements or you can download them from the app that may be useful for you. But you don’t need to send these statements to the bank with your complaint – the bank already has them!
You can’t go back and see exactly what your credit score was in say 2018 when the bank increased your limit. But your current credit record shows what was happening in 2017 and 2018. So download your credit report now and keep it. The sooner you get the report, the further back it goes. I suggest you get your free TransUnion statutory credit report.
Send a complaint in the app or by email
I don’t recommend phoning to start off a complaint. It’s too complicated and you will be talking to someone that doesn’t specialise in these complaints.
When the account is still open, you can send your complaint by secure message in the app or on the bank’s website. Take a copy of what you put in the message – you could email it to yourself so it won’t get lost and the date is recorded.
Most banks now have an email address that you can use if you prefer or if the account is closed so you can’t use the app. But banks don’t make these easy to find, so here is my list of bank email addresses for complaints.
A template you can adapt
The section above looked at the reasons to complain and the other good points that apply to your case – you are now going to turn those into a complaint.
In the template below, I’ve invented some examples and dates so you can see how a complaint email could read. The bits in italics should be changed or deleted to tell your story.
The bit about other points is important – what should your bank have noticed that showed you were in difficulty?
I am making an affordability complaint about the overdraft on my current account number 98765432.
Your identity details (these are needed if you complain by email, not if you use secure message):
My name is xxxxx xxxxxxxx. My date of birth is dd/mm/yy. The email address I use/used for this account was myaddress@whatever.com.
START BY SAYING they should have noticed when your overdraft usage got worse
Overdrafts are meant for short-term borrowing but that was not what I was using the account for. The fees and charges you were adding were making my position worse.
I am complaining that every year since [20xx] you have failed to notice my difficulty during the annual reviews of my overdraft. You should have offered forbearance eg by stopping interest and charges being added.
By 2014 I had been in my overdraft constantly for many months, not getting back into the black even when I was paid. This “hardcore borrowing” is a clear sign of financial difficulty. My income was only £1,850 a month – after I had paid bills, there was no way I could hope to clear an overdraft of £3500 in a reasonable length of time.
OR
By 2017 I had a large unauthorised overdraft for many days each month.
some other points that you can include if relavent- see the list above – these are just a few examples
You should knew I was in financial difficulty because you had rejected my loan application in 2016.
You should have noticed that the income going into my account decreased from 2018.
From 2018-20 there was a lot of gambling showing on my account.
In 2017 you should have seen from my credit record that I had made payment arrangements with other debts.
ALSO Was the limit to high when it was set?
(It may have been ok then and things only got difficult later – in that case miss this out.)
You should never have given me an account with such a large overdraft. When I applied in 2015, you should have checked my credit record and you would have seen I had recently missed payments to a credit card and had taken several payday loans.
OR
You should not have increased my overdraft limit in about 2014. When you increased the limit, you should have seen that my debts to other lenders on my credit record had increased a lot.
I do not know the exact months of these overdraft limit increases. In your reply to this complaint, please tell me when the increases were and how much the limit went up on each occasion.
END BY asking for a refund of charges and interest:
I would like you to refund all the interest and charges that were added to my account from 2016 when you increased my overdraft limit.
OR
I would like you to refund all the interest and charges that were added to my account from 2018 when you should have realised that my finances had got worse to the point that I was no longer able to clear the overdraft.
The Financial Ombudsman says that 8% simple interest should be added to any cash refund paid to me.
I would also like any late payment and default markers to be removed from my credit records.
Points to note
Personal accounts, not business accounts
The complaints covered here relate to personal accounts. For business accounts, talk to Business Debtline about your options.
You can complain if the account is still being used or if it is closed
These complaints can be made in a lot of different situations. For example:
- you are still using the account or you have stopped using it and are paying it off;
- the account has been closed;
- the bank defaulted it and sold it to a debt collector (here you still complain to the bank, not the debt collector). If the debt collector has gone to court and got a CCJ, add to your complaint that you want the CCJ removed as part of the settlement of your complaint.
But if you have had an IVA or bankruptcy after these problems, or if you are still in a DRO, then you shouldn’t complain – ask in the comments below for details.
Old accounts
Banks may say FOS won’t look at an old complaint, but this isn’t right. FOS will often look at a complaint if you have only just found out you can complain.
Open and recently closed accounts aren’t a problem – the bank will still have your statements.
If your complaint is about an account that was closed more than 6 years ago, it’s harder to win. The bank may no longer have much information about the old account. If you still have copies of your old bank statements for these old closed accounts this is worth a try.
If you feel you have a good older case take it to the Financial Ombudsman and let them decide!
Packaged bank accounts
These affordability complaints are nothing to do with packaged bank accounts. MSE has a good page about how to complain about packaged bank account charges. I suggest you don’t try to combine this with an affordability complaint – make two separate complaints to the bank and leave a gap of at least a month between them.
Student overdrafts
You are unlikely to win a complaint about a student overdraft saying you were a student and it was unaffordable – they are at 0% interest and nothing is charged until you are in work. So you need to argue it was unaffordable at the later date when they started to charge interest.
The Bank replies
They want to talk to me on the phone!
People are often scared if they get this message. But it may be good news!
You can just ignore it or say you would like a reply in writing.
If you decide to take the call, it helps to be prepared. Have a pen and paper handy so you can write down anything. If they say they are partially upholding the complaint, ask them the date they are refunding the fees from and how much. Also say you would like to see this in writing before you decide whether to accept it.
If they want to ask you questions that sound complicated or worrying (this is unusual), ask them to put the questions in writing as you find the phone difficult.
Rejection or a poor offer – go to the Ombudsman
The bank should reply in 8 weeks. You can’t go straight to the Ombudsman, you have to wait for the bank to reply.
Banks reject many good complaints, hoping you will give up. So don’t! You know if the overdraft has caused you a lot of problems.
And the bank may offer to refund fees for the last 15 months say, even though your problems have been large for many years. Think twice about accepting a low offer – you won’t put this offer at risk by going to the Ombudsman. If you aren’t sure, post in the comments below.
In particular, if the bank says you could have declined the increase to your overdraft limit or you never let the bank know you were in difficulty, FOS may not think that is a good reason. And ignore any statements by the bank that FOS will not look into things that happened more than 6 years ago.
Santander has been rejecting some cases then giving a full refund only a few weeks later if the case is sent to the Ombudsman – before the Ombudsman has even looked at it! Santander obviously knows it has been sending out misleading rejection letters.
The easy way to complain to FOS is by completing this online form:
- you can use what you put in your complaint to the bank;
- if the bank rejected your complaint or made a low offer, say why you think this is unfair;
- use normal English, not legal terms.
If your credit record shows that you had other debt problems send it to FOS. You don’t need to send your bank statements – the bank will send those to FOS. And you don’t need the policy documents for your bank account the lender will supply those to FOS if they are needed.
Do these complaints work?
Yes! In 2024, some banks are making more offers directly.
A Guardian article featured a case where someone used the template letter here. Barclays denied it has done anything but made an £8,000 “good will” payment to the customer.
And if yours doesn’t, people are winning cases at the ombudsman. FOS is a friendly service although it isn’t speedy. It isn’t any faster if you use a solicitor or a claims firm,
The comments below this article are from other people who have made this sort of complaint. That is a good place to ask for help if you aren’t sure what to do.
If you have priority debts such as utility bills, rent, council tax and benefit overpayments, these can’t wait until your overdraft complaint is settled. Start the overdraft complaint now, but you need debt help as well. So phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000, tell them you have made an affordability complaint but you would like to know what your debt options are.
Is your credit card limit too high?
Get a refunds from large loans
Unaffordable car finance – your options
John says
Can’t Thank you enough Sara
With your template I’ve written off my £1000 overdraft something I’ve been in for ove 9 years. What a fresh start!
Can’t thank you enough.
Becky says
I made a complaint to TSB about an overdraft I’ve had since at least 2012. It is £2000 and when I was first given it I was a student. Since then I’ve not managed to clear it, making many attempts. I made a complaint to them using the template although they said they have not done anything wrong. They pointed to debt consolidation loans I’ve had in the past where the funds were paid into the account and point to inflows that were about 3k. Do I have a case to take to the ombudsman? The overdraft is not affordable regardless on my incomings. Every month I’m so close to my o/d limit I constantly get messages that I’m over the limit and need to transfer funds in by 2.30pm. It is not short term borrowing even though their response claims so. I’ve been in this overdraft for years and in my current circumstances paying it off is not possible.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If it is only consolidation loans that got you back into the black, then that wasn’t income , it was more debt. Send this to the Ombudsman
Becky says
They also said that it’s more than 6 years – overdraft was first set up in 2006 – and they said I missed the 3 year mark (I only became aware very recently when I discovered your page and read the Guardian article.
Thanks – I will send to FOS – are there any key things to flag. I will mention that loans are not income and multiple consolidation loans evidence of my struggles. My income is now pretty healthy but doesn’t go into this account and I have £0 left over at the end of the month
They said I have received monthly statements which include notification of the overdraft and charges you have incurred
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That doesn’t count. All of the thousands of people who have had overdraft refunds were also sent those! Send this to the ombudsman.
Becky says
The FOS have not come back to me, I presume due to the delays referenced to the high court decision you mention elsewhere. Can I request that the complaint just goes back 6 years to speed it up? That would still be a good result for me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you asking about the TSB or Halifax account or both?
Have you added up the amount of interest and charges you paid in the last 6 years and how much overall?
Becky says
Just TSB, there’s an average of £30-£60 almost every month for 6 years so estimate at least enough to cover the £2k overdraft.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well you can ask FOS if it will be much quicker – other people have been told their case is on hold, I don’t think you have?
Becky says
It’s not on hold as far as I’m aware, the last communication I had was that the bank raised a time bar issue
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you wait until FOS contact you.
Becky says
The FOS rules that this was something that could be looked at (going back over 6 years) but this was challenged by TSB so it’s gone to the ombudsman. This is what they’ve asked:
In order for me to decide if we can look into the whole of your complaint or not, please can you let me have answers to the following questions:.
You’ve said you’re “complaining that every year since as far back as 2015 TSB failed to notice my difficulty” and it should have offered you forbearance since then. Why do you say 2015 specifically?
Were you facing particular financial difficulties at that time, or is there another reason you think TSB ought to have intervened at that point?
Do you have any account statements from that time?
If you felt you were struggling with the overdraft in 2015 or since, did you ask TSB for help with your difficulties?
If not, why not? I believe it’s common knowledge that consumers can approach financial companies for assistance if they’re struggling to meet their commitments.
when did you realise your overdraft had become unaffordable?
which particular interest rises are you referring to?
I’m not sure how to respond. When they starting charging interest it was unaffordable as I also had a number of other overdrafts at the time in 2015.. 3k and 1.5k in addition to the 2k that is being complained about here.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so they started charging interest in 2015?
Becky says
It was before 2015. I graduated in 2008 from my undergrad and looking at statements it looks like I was charged very small amounts from 2009 this then ramped up over time to the current amount of £50-60 a month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you have your statements?
then reply to FOS you picked 2015 as you looked at your statements to see when the problems had actually started as the charges were low at the start of the account. Add that at the time you saw your financial difficulties as your problem for having spent too much. You think now looking at the statements that TSB should have noticed this if it had done an annual review, but at the time you didn’t realise TSB should have done this.
Say you didn’t approach TSB at the time as you didn’t realise they had done anything wrong and you felt it was helpful having an overdraft. As TSB took the money automatically each month you didn’t have to make a payments to them so it was always made.
Say you only came across the concert of an overdraft not being “affordable” this year when you read about it on social media (or in a newspaper article?) and that until then you didn’t relise what checks a bank should have made .
Becky says
Thank you so much. Yes I have the statements, I will go back with that!
John says
Hi Sara.
I have received a response in my overdraft complaint (used your template) the response didn’t even match my complaint and didn’t make much sense. In a nut shell they said I’ve had the overdraft for more than 6 years so they can’t look at it. Nothing to do with the on going debt of 3k that my wage doesn’t even cover. Nothing about the limit increases that have continued to be granted which as now got me to this point.
I’ve now sent it to the ombudsman. Just wondered if you had any word of encouragement or advice on this.
Honestly the letter in response as me confused.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
which bank is this? and when was the last limit increase?
John says
It’s the halifax Sara.
Around August last year
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So either they didn’t read your complaint properly or you have been sent a reply to someone else’s complaint!
However long ago your overdraft started:
1) the Ombudsman can always look at the bank’s failure to review the overdraft in each of the last 6 years
2) the Ombudsman can look at any limit increases in the last 6 years
3) the Ombudsman can choose to go back further than 6 years if you have only recently found out that that the bank should have checked the overdraws suitable for you each year
Let me know how this one goes!
John says
Should I contact the bank again and question the reply. Or do I not waste my time and just wait for ombudsman.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
straight to the ombudsman I suggest
Dominic says
I emailed Barclays 2 months ago and have had no reply. I presume the next step is contacting the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no acknowledgement? I suggest you phone up and ask why.
Dominic says
Today I have just received a Text stating that I will be receiving a written reply to my complaint in the next few days – fingers crossed.
DN says
Hi Sara, I complained to my bank regarding unauthorised overdraft charges.
I had multiple payday loans, a terrible credit score and lots of gambling. Each month I slipped into unauthorised overdraft with the bank and this incurred charges for the following month, this was a cycle going on every month for some 2 years.
I applied for both a credit card and a loan direct with the bank, both rejected.
Sometimes the pre notified charges would actually put me back in the red, therefore making me incur more charges.
I finally broke the cycle after some time.
I complained to the bank evidencing all this, and asked for a refund of all charges. I thought this was a cut and dry case.
The bank rejected.
The charges alone were over £1k accumulated.
Took it to the ombudsman and they sided with the bank.
Deflated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How many days of the month were you in the overdraft?
DN says
Most cases at least half the month.
Some months (2 or 3 out of 25) HSBC wiped the charges but I used to call them up every month and ask for it, (help essentially).
The ombudsman actually said “having multiple loans and going into unauthorised overdraft every month isn’t an automatic sign of financial difficulty”.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume the bank didn’t increase your ovedraft limit during this period.
Here the problem sounds like it was quite short – overdrafts are meant for short term borrowing and only reviewed once a year. So a two year period where you weren’t in your overdraft all or almost all of every month isn’t being seen as severe enough to warrant more action from the bank.
have you looked at complaints about the loans you took during this time?
Rebecca says
Hi, just wanted to share that my husband managed to get a refund for over £5,000 from HSBC for his bank charges & interest on a £5k overdraft. The refund has paid off the overdraft & meant the length his debt plan has been shortened. This is all thanks to the advice on your Instagram page & website, so thank you 🙏🏼
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Great result!
KS says
Hi Sara. Thanks to your advice and letter template we had over £2600 paid back to us in overdraft interest, which cleared our overdraft. I cannot thank you enough for this, as its been life changing to get out of our overdraft after using it to the maximum for many years.
KB says
Hi Sara
The FOS have upheld my complaint and requested Santander to refund all interest charges along with the 8%. The only thing I’m unsure of is I consolidated my overdraft into a loan with the bank after their guidance at considering this option when rejecting my forebearance requests on the overdraft. The FOS have advised I need to raise a separate complaint for the loan although it links with the overdraft it is seperate. Can you advise what might be best for me to do
Sara (Debt Camel) says
make a complaint about the loan, if that too was unaffordable.
thomas says
HiSara, FOS re overdraft complaint have said. “You would have been aware of your financial struggles and being trapped in your overdraft as it happened. And you would have been aware of all late fees and overlimit charges you received from NatWest as they happened. It would have been reasonable for you to understand that the charges from NatWest further contributed to your indebtedness during the difficult financial periods and this would have put you on the path to discovery that NatWest’s actions were at least partially responsible for worsening your situation. So you should have then been aware that you had a cause to complain.” ” I do know you received charges and fees over the lifetime of the account – from as early as 2003. So you should have known at these points that there was a problem that NatWest were potentially partially responsible for and so should have raised the complaint at that time.” any advice would be great!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have had complaints upheld at FOS for loans and credit cards that went back further than 6 years?
Do you still have this account with an overdraft?
Thomas says
Hi. Still have this account but nit in my overdraft anymore (paid it off in 2022) so they are looking at last 6 years but not before as saying I should have been aware Natwest were in the wrong. I did win a 20k loan complaint where they have taken off all the interest. Loan taken out in 2019 so basically saved 10k in interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you haven’t won any cases against NatWest for debts that started more than 6 years ago?
Thomas says
No… but I am replying stating I didn’t know and only found out when I saw your instagram post in June 23. Should I add anything else in?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it would help to say more than that.
can you say some more about your financial history from the start of this overdraft problem up to the point 6 years ago ?
Darren says
Hi Sara
I put in a complaint to HSBC that they came back straight away and rejected it, so I sent to FOS the investigator have just emailed me with a letter that he have sent to HSBC. He have gone in my favour and ask HSBC to refund all interest and charges including 8% simple interest from September 2020.
OR if they disagree he will have to send it to the ombudsman to look at.
My question is do companies listen to the investor or send the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Many claims are settled at the investigator level.
Darren says
This is how the letter ends
Next steps
I think this is a fair outcome in the circumstances, for the reasons I’ve explained. Please let me know by 8 March 2024 whether you agree to my recommendations so the case can be resolved.
But if you don’t accept what I’ve said – and want an Ombudsman to make a final decision on the complaint – you must provide any further evidence or representations by 8 March 2024. Requests for more time must also be made by that date. If I don’t hear from you by
8 March 2024 I’ll arrange for an Ombudsman to determine the complaint.
My Question is if they don’t come back to us what happens next?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If HSBC don’t reply, normally the investigator will give them a couple more weeks! It’s frustrating but often gets things sorted faster than putting everything into a queue for an Ombudsman as soon as the first “deadline” passes.
Darren says
Hi Sara
HSBC have came back today asking for another 2 weeks as they need to speak to there stake holders about my complaint
What do u think that means? they now have till the 22nd march
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not heard that one before!
Emma says
Complained to TSB on 23/02/24 regarding a £2500 overdraft since Feb 2018. Received a response today:
“I have now completed my investigation and I’m unable to agree with all aspects of your complaint. However, I do feel there are some areas where we have made mistakes.”
The resolution they suggested was as follows:
“We will be removing your Planned Overdraft limit on your account on 28 March 2024. At this time, I’ll be arranging to refund all charges applied from February 2018 and it may be likely that an outstanding balance will remain on the account. This will mean your account will be passed to our Financial Services team (FS) who will try and contact you to discuss what repayment options are available to you.”
Does this mean that I will be refunded all charges applied from Feb 2018 to the present? Or only from Feb 2018? Sorry if this is stupid of me. However, if it is from Feb 2018 to the present, then that will cover my entire overdraft with around £300 credit to me. If it is only Feb 2018 then it will not cover anything as the first O/D charge was August 2018, so I will get nothing and then I will have to set up a repayment plan to pay off the £2500!
Please help. I am not sure what to do and not sure when to get FOS involved. Might be worth adding that TSB emailed the response to me, but there is no way to respond by email. Only a contact number and an extension for the case handler. TIA :-)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does this mean that I will be refunded all charges applied from Feb 2018 to the present?
yes, that is what they are offering.
Darina Nedeva says
Hi Sara, it’s me again, Darina :) after you suggested me to complain for overdraft, I complained to Lloyd’s bank for my overdraft also my partner complained to Halifax on 31st Jan 2024. I’m still waiting for decision but he has already received a reponse from Halifax. (Very quick) He is been in overdraft 12 years now, £5000 and Halifax said that: we’re paying you £4611.20, I’m sorry we didn’t give you better service by not supporting you sooner with your arrange overdraft when it was no longer suitable. After looking at the transactions on yout account, it wasn’t suitable for us to renew your arrange overdraft in July 2021. We should’ve reviewed your account and put steps in place to support you to remove the overdraft. I’m sorry we didn’t do this. To put things right, we’ll refund all fees and charges from 26 July 2021. I’ll remove your overdraft facility 30days from the date of this letter. Once the arranged overdraft facility has been removed, we’ll process your refund into your account. Please note any outstanding overdraft amounts will still need to be settled. I’LL APPLY A RESTRICTION TO YOUR ACCOUNT, WHICH WILL STOP ANY LENDING WITHING LLOYDS GROUP FOR 12 MONTHS.”
Sara (Debt Camel) says
He has paid £4611 in overdraft charges in less than 3 years?
When did his overdraft problems begin?
Darina Nedeva says
He has been I overdraft last 12 years but they said that “as you took out your initial overdraft on January 2012, you needed to let us know about your concerns by January 2018.because you didn’t get in touch with us by this date we’re not taking your complaint any further. Based on what we know, we believe you’d have been aware about the affordability of your overdraft by September 2018 because you applied for a new overdraft limit on this day, so three year limit ended on Sept 21.”
It looks like he paid £4611 in 2.5 years because he was always -5k overdraft. Because whatever comes it goes to bills and shopping, the bank charge was more than £5 every day. What do you think about this decision, Sara?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did they increase the overdraft limit in Sept 2018?
Darina Nedeva says
Hi Sara, they increased his limit 1500 to 3500 on July 2017 and just 1 month later they increased the limit to £5000 on August 2017, but he said maybe he tried to increased the overdraft limit in 2018 too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So there are three important points here.
1) FOS will ALWAYS be able to go back 6 years on an overdraft complaint as Halifax should have reviewed it every year. So they made “a bad decision” in 2018, 2019, 2020 etc all the way up to now. And he should therefore be able to get a refund from 2018 by going to FOS. the 3 year rule is irrelevant here – FOS can always go back 6 years.
2) FOS make the decision about when your husband should have known to complain. They may decide that was 2018. Or they may decide it is in the last three years if he argues that although he knew he was in financial difficulty in 2018 and before, he only blamed himself for spending too much so his overdraft balance had got too high. As he had no idea that Halifax should have checked it was manageable for him, he did not have a reason to complain. Say he doesnt recall asking for a limit increase in 2018, but if he did and it was refused, he doesn’t think Halifax explained that a higher limit would have been unaffordable for him – if Halifax had made that clear to him he may have complained at that point.
3) obviously if he is happy with £4,611 he can just accept and do nothing. It may be a good idea to add up how much he was charged in interest and fees from 2018 to July 2021 as that is extra bit it should be easier to get back from FOS.
Darina Nedeva says
Hi Sara,
Thank you sp much your your response, I’m just wondering if he goes to FOS, and if FOS reject it, will he lose his chance to get £4611 payment from Halifax? Or will he get this money, no matter what, because this’ll already been confirmed by Halifax. If he is not losing this, of course it’s a good idea to go to FOS.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In theory FOS can decide anything at all. However in this sort of situation they would normally accept what the lender has said as being accurate – so the post 21 years were unaffordable – and look to see if the refund should have started earlier.
The typical case where someone can lose what has been offered is where there is a small “we are soory you complained, we don’t agree it was unaffordable but here is £100 as a good will” offer.
This is a large refund being offered and your husband seems to have a very strong case. I would be astonished if he doesnt get what Halifax have offered as a minimum.
Darina Nedeva says
Can’t thank you enough Sara, thank you so much for your time. Definitely going to FOS then :)
Darina Nedeva says
Hi Sara,
I need your help again :)
My partner sent this to FOS and they said they will investigate it. But they asked couple of questions:
1) When did you first realise that the overdraft was unaffordable and causing you to struggle financially? Please provide an approximate date in just answer.
2) When you were unable to clear the overdraft and were regularly being charged overdraft fees who did you think at the time was to blame?
3) What made you realise that you had cause to complain to Halifax and what made you think this?
We just don’t want to harm this investigation and don’t know what is the best answer for these questions, I just wanted to get your opinion. (he had some gambling issues, he struggled to pay back everything after they started to charge daily fees in 2017-2018. And if he says we just seen an article than decided to complain? I’m not sure) What is your opinion ? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So here are some typical responses, make sure they are right for him though.
1) I knew my finances were a mess because of my gambling and things were getting worse by 2017. I don’t think I clearly thought the overdraft fees were responsible for this struggle as I was more focussed on the difficulty of juggling my finances around because of my gambling.
2) I thought at the time that this was my fault and that I needed to sort my finances out. But I was always chasing my losses and hoping that I would be able to stop if I could just get a good enough month. I knew overdraft fees had gone up but they didn’t feel like the main cause of my problem. Although now with hindsight the size of the overdraft was obviously unmanageable, that at the time was obscured on a day to day basis by all the shuffling money around and blaming myself for the gambling losses.
3) I saw an article [was this in the guardian? the more specific you can be about this the better] about unaffordable lending and suddenly it was clear in my mind that Halifax was partly to blam for having provdided me with an unaffordable overdraft for so many years without adequately reviewing it.
Darina Nedeva says
Can’t thank you enough! Appreciate your time to answering the questions 🙏
Awo says
Good morning Sara,
Me again. I was awaiting a response from Santander on my overdraft complaint filed on the 29th Dec. They wrote back to me on the 22nd Feb and said that they are sorry its taking longer than the 8 weeks they were due to get back to me by. They said they are still investigating my case and they will let me know as soon as this is completed. They have said to contact the ombudsman if I do not want to wait. Should I wait for them to conclude or follow the ombudsman route. If the latter do I use the online form link you have provided us or do I forward my original letter of complaint to the bank. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would send it to the Ombudsman now. Santander often reject or make poor offers to good complaints so it’s best to get in the Ombudsman queue straightaway. Santander will still come back with a decision which you can then accept if you want.
Dawn says
Hi Sara,
I was given a Platinum account back in 2009 with NatWest & an overdraft of £250. At the time I was going thru a messy divorce and not working and a single parent to 6 young children. They knew my circumstances and could see I was only getting DWP into my account. My circumstances over the years haven’t changed too much, minus having a few jobs here and there but sadly due to MH decline from PTSD my income is mainly DWP to this very day.
I made a complaint back at the end of Dec 2023 after seeing your site about both the platinum account and my overdraft ( I live daily & have done in my overdraft for the last 14 years other than the day my benefits are paid but once bills etc are paid I am back to living in my OD for the rest of the month ) .
NatWest wrote to me regarding my complaint 2nd week of January to apologise etc & that they would call me to discuss my complaint, I’ve yet to have had no phone or any more response from them. Is this a good sign or should I follow up with them to see what is going ? I’d prefer all my correspondence done in writing as it easier for me to understand rather than a phone call & also would they if they accept they are in they are in the wrong would I be looking at refunds of my platinum account from the day they opened this? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has your overdraft limit been increased over the years?
Do you have other debts as well? or arrears on any important bills?
Dawn says
Not sure if the replies have come thru as kept saying error.
No increase on the overdraft, yes I have other debts & arrears on main bills. Main bill arrears are being taken at a small amount from my benefits each month so it will be years before they are paid off.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is not a good sign that you haven’t heard anything.
The simple thing is to phone up and ask why you have not had a response to your complaint. Say they have not phoned you as they said they would do and anyway you would prefer a response in writing.
Alternatively you could send that as a message within the app?
A £250 overdraft is often regarded as a sensible safety net. I don’t know what the ombudsman would decide about such a small overdraft.
I think you should talk to a good debt adviser about your options for all of your debts – I suggest you call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000.
Dee says
Hello Sara
I have been in a cycle of overdrafts, credit cards and bank loans. I have cleared my overdraft at times but only through credit card transfers/bank loans… but have then ended up getting the over draft back again over numerous times. I was given my overdraft back after also taking out a loan with the same bank. I don’t miss payments but it I do struggle and have to rely on further credit card so it’s a constant cycle. I did submit a complaint earlier this week which is being looked into but do you think this stands a chance or not with me clearing it in the past (but only through further credit) if so, do you think it’s worth putting one through for my bank loan as well?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think if this has goner on for a long wheile – years – yopu should send this to the Ombudsman if the bank rejects it. make the point that you have only been able to clear the overdraft by more borrowing – that does not mean it was affordable.
the bank loan – how large was it? Were the payments one of the reasons you ended up back in the overdraft?
Dee says
Thank you for your reply!
Yes it’s been an impossible cycle to get out of for around 6 years (maybe longer) but the last few years have made it worse with the amount of charges per month.
I took out 7.5k with Santander to consolidate a portion of credit cards/overdraft around April 2020, but March 2022 took out another 10k to clear remaining balance on the 7.5k and overdraft/credit cards again.
Yes I took the loans out cleared the overdraft but due to payments I couldn’t manage everything so I ended up applying for it it again, overdraft was at around 2k at first but I’ve been trying to reduce it with anything spare so it’s £1850 currently
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I think you should also make a separate complaint about the loan. Use the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. In the overdraft compl;aint complaint say you are also making a separate complaint about the loans. And vice versa.
The credit cards – did any of those lenders increase your credit limit when you were on;t making minimum payments?
Dee says
Thank you I have done that so will keep you updated. Santander did get back to me today to say they need longer to look into it and have given a 4 week timescale. Yes I did already submit one and got a refund for one of them, I didn’t see this page though so I had done it through a claims person who took a percentage of the refund, so thought I will try these ones myself now instead thanks to your page :)
Dee says
Update – Santander have emailed back advising it’s been over 8 weeks and they need longer,, they have said I can take it the financial ombudsman now instead of waiting… would you advise to wait for them or to go straight to ombudsman now?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would send it to the Ombudsman now. You can withdraw the case if Santander pop up with a good offer.
Stephen says
Why do they only go back 6 years, I have a large overdraft for20 years
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The Financial Ombudsman rules provide that it can investigate anything in the last 6 years and it can choose to go back further if the customer has only found out in the last 3 years that they have a reason to complain.
Has a bank turned down your complaint?
Stephen says
They have finally accepted my complaint and made an offer but only going back 6 years, but the overdraft was for over 20 years
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so you can send the case to the Ombudsman who can decide to go back further. The decisions on this are a bit erratic but some people do get refunds from further back.
I don’t know anyone who has had refunds going back 20 years. I don’t even know if the bank will keep information going back that far.
Gregory says
I have now completed my investigation and I’m unable to agree with all aspects of your complaint. However, I do we made mistakes in increasing your Overdraft Facility. I’m sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you. I have reviewed your account since the Overdraft facility was applied and can see the overdraft has been used for short term use as the account goes into credit on a regular basis. I can see over each 12-month period you account has gone into credit, therefore I can not agree this is hardcore borrowing.The interest paid each month is in line with the terms and conditions you agreed to when you applied for the overdraft facility. I have reviewed your overdraft increases and can see you applied for several increases in September and October 2019 which increased your overdraft significantly. At this point we should have looked to see if we could have offered further support. Due to this I will be refunding overdraft interest charged from October 2019 to date on 2 April 2024, this totals around £1800.00. At the same time, I will be removing your Overdraft facility.
is that normal that they haven’t confirmed exact amount they will be refunding, only mentioning “around 1800”?
And is there 8% interest should be applied?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can see over each 12-month period you account has gone into credit
ok, but was that only for a couple of days each month? of for a couple of weeks each month?
is that normal that they haven’t confirmed exact amount they will be refunding, only mentioning “around 1800”?
if the exact amount matters, you can ask them
And is there 8% interest should be applied?
8% is normally only added if the refund takes you back into the black – does it?
Gregory says
It was for couple of days each month, sometimes even 1 day, and then going into minus again.
Well, when they say approximately 1800, it won’t get me into black, but I’ve done a bit of rough calculations and it actually should be around 2000 with all the fees and interest, then it will get me to the black.
I really find them unhelpful, as their letter is a bit confusing for me and I couldn’t speak to my complaint handler directly, also letter never arrived I had to chase outcome letter twice over telephone and then they emailed it eventually. Should I refer to FOS straight away? Or it’s worth speaking to TSB first?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It was for couple of days each month, sometimes even 1 day, and then going into minus again.
then although that doesn’t meet the definition of “hardcore borrowing” it sounds like a prolonged significant overdraft usage to me, not using an overdraft as a temporary help.
On that basis I suggest you send the case to the Ombudsman.
If you speak to TSB you may be able to get the 1800/2000 sorted out, but if this is going to have to go to FOS anyway to go back further, then that is just wasting time and you may as well go to FOS now.
Mark says
Following a complaint to Santander where they refunded me the last two years which reduced my overdraft from £1250 to £450 ,they have now sent me letters warning that my overdraft will be taken away on a certain date.It seems very unfair that they don’t admit full fault offering me an overdraft yet are taking it away which will leave me £450 short next month.This is a closed case with the FOS and apart from arranging a payplan or writing a letter of complaint to the bank,I don’t know if any other options.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you still using the account? have they been charging any interest?
Mark says
Yes I still have an account and go into the overdraft every month but during the complaint process which is closed,they haven’t charged any interest .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you switch to a new bank and propose a payment arrangement to Santader that will clear the overdraft – ask for this to continue to be interest-free.
Nick says
Hi, I am looking at making a complaint to my bank as been stuck in my overdraft (£2100) for past 7 years and also in that time been accepted for a £4000 credit card and £8000 loan (now £3800). I have been not been out of my overdraft for the vast majority of this time and pay around £60 in overdraft interest rates each month and £95 interest on my credit card that is constantly maxed out. If I make this complaint will I be made to leave my bank? Ideally I would prefer to stay with them as been with bofs since a kid. I would appreciate any feedback.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
also in that time been accepted for a £4000 credit card and £8000 loan
were these from BoS or a different lender?
Nick says
Hi Sara
Yes they are both with BOFS. So my overdraft, loan and credit card are all Bank of Scotland.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should be looking at a complaint about each of the overdraft, the loan and the credit card.
Banks rarel;y actual;ly close accounts because of complaints, but honestly why would you not want to switch to another bank? BofS seems to have made a great deal of money out of you – time to change to a better bank?
Thomas says
Hi Sara, Great news – as well as having the £10 interest on my £20k loan removed I heard back from the ombudsman today and Natwest have agreed to remove all interest and fees and charges removed since June 2017 (6 years form complaint) totalling £6k and go back to 2013 and remove all fees and charges and rework the interest so that it is only on the first £1100 of my original overdraft before the irresponsible overdraft increases – this totals a further £1200. Thank you very very much!!!
Kieran says
I banked with Monzo and had a £1550 overdraft. Last night they closed my account and have asked me to pay back the money owed.
I’ve had the overdraft for 2 years. I was on £1500 a month, so the overdraft was used in full every month. With the interest charges it got too high and I ended up depressed and attempted to end my life.
I reached out to Monzo but received no support. They did stop my interest for 3 months but then continued charging them.
Do you think I’d have a strong enough case to get it written off?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“Received no support” they didn’t talk to you about a payment arrangement? They were aware of your situation?
What are the rest of your finances like at the moment?
Daisy says
Hi I have an overdraft with halifax and been hard-core borrowing for atleast the last 4 years at least) its never ending I have only been out of od once when I took a consolidation loan and was back in it after a month 🫣 they have recently written to me (last week) so say they are going to reduce by £80 a month starting May for the next 6 months and halving the interest from 49.9% to 19.9% but this is the first time they have done anything. Would I be able to claim for the hard-core borrowing I have calculated my fees and paid £4850 in charges 🤔 my od would have been clear sooner if it wasn’t for the high charges I have opened a separate account for my wages to go in and bills to come out so I can get my od cleared but even with 80 reduction that will be swolled in charges every month so is not really going to help ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
“they are going to reduce by £80 a month starting May for the next 6 months “
what exactly are they going to reduce – your overdraft limit? or the overdraft balance?
how large is the limit at the moment and what is your balance?
the consolidation loan – who was that from?
Daisy says
They are reducing my od limit by £80 a month, the limit is 4k and bring honest it’s maxed out each month.
I went in to an unauthorised overdraft this month of £20 (over the limit)
The consolidation loan was with someone else.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send in a complaint about the overdraft then. What they have just done isn’t a help at all.
The consolidation loan – who was the lender? what interest rate? Because you may have a good affordability complaint about that too
Daisy says
Hi Sara,
Halifax have come back very quickly today and not upheld my complaint despite being maxed out in a 4k overdraft no looking after affordability multiple direct debits returned every single month for the last 4 years they state that my overdraft is affordable. I am shocked especially given that they haven’t even asked about the credits in to my account I have credit from my husband each month to help me yet I am still using the od I will refer to the FOS but not hopeful anymore.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send it to the Ombudsman and let us know what happens!
Daisy says
OK thank you will see what halifax say the loan was secured so didn’t want to do anything that will affect my mortgage to be honest. I wanted to pay the overdraft off and I did but then unfortunately the boiler broke and had to be replaced as it couldn’t be fixed I cancelled all my credit cards after I paid them off with the loan so I could only use the overdraft.
Laura says
Thanks so much for this article Sara. I had no idea you could complain about overdraft affordability until I saw it.
I had a NatWest student account, later a graduate account, with an overdraft facility of £2,000 but this didn’t become a problem until a few years after I graduated and I was still at the bottom of it. I’ve been at the bottom of the overdraft ever since – approx 10 years ago. When I got paid (around £1,600 a month for a while) this would cover some of the overdraft but as rent, bills etc. went out it would soon be at the bottom again. My salary has increased since then but I’ve still not been able to pay it off (payday loans etc, which I have affordability complaints in for).
NatWest completely rejected my complaint today so I’ve forwarded to the Ombudsman – let’s see what they say. Even if they only take the last 6 years into account, that should be enough to cover the overdraft.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if payday loans were showing on your bank statements, that is another reason Natwest should have realised the problem you were in.
Do you have other expensive loans? credit cards or catalogues that increased your limit too high?
Laura says
Hi Sara, I had a Loans2Go loan which is with the Ombudsman at the moment (adjudicator sided with Loans2Go but I questioned this and just waiting for an update). Had some credit cards but they defaulted long ago.
Jenni says
Hi Sara,
I had this response from HSBC
In 2018 they approved an o/d increase despite me having gone over my limit and being in debt with various other agencies. They increased my limit 3 times that year despite my salary being a third of the o/d limit. Do I refer to the ombudsmen?
‘I can see we approved your online application to increase the limit to £1,400.00 on 6 April 2018 and further increase to £1,600.00 on 12 July 2018. These applications will have undergone and successfully passed an affordability assessment which will have utilised information you provided and data available to us at that time.
Letters were sent on a regularly to keep you updated with the status of your account and asked you to contact us to discuss your circumstances. We also provided details of other organisations that can offer free independent money advice.
Our records show you called on 26 September 2021 to advise us you had changed your spending habits and had another source of income. However, it was difficult for you to speak with us because **** (blurred for privacy)
I regret that I’m, therefore, unable to consider your request for a refund of fees and interest. I’m sorry for any disappointment this may cause you.
I trust that I’ve now clarified matters accordingly. Thank you, once again, for taking the time to contact us.’
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes I suggest this should go to the ombudsman.
Jenni says
Hi Sara
I had this reply from the FOS today. I haven’t yet replied but it was very welcome!
‘HSBC have offered to refund the overdraft charges and interest in the last six years dating back to 19 March 2018. This amounts to £1,673.47 and as part of this offer HSBC would also look to remove your overdraft limit to prevent this from occurring in the future.’
This was followed by (which I noticed was different to other’s responses): ‘With this in mind, I haven’t yet assessed whether HSBC’s offer is fair. It’s up to you to decide whether you wish to accept the offer made by HSBC. However, if you don’t, I may review your complaint in more detail and conclude we can’t consider events that took place more than six years ago….’
This was better than I was expecting given HSBC told me I had no case. It covers my overdraft with a little left over. I think I should accept the offer, but do I query at all why the handler has not looked into whether it’s fair?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have they offered a full refund of our charges? If they have it is very, very unlikely that you would get any more by rejecting this and asking FOS to look at it. In which case there isn’t much point in your FOS handler wasting time now thinking about this.
Jenni says
Also, a friend of mine is in the exact same situation – complained to the same bank, but her complaint went back before 2018. She was assigned a handler before I was and was a week ahead of me. She got this message last week from the FOS: ‘The Supreme Court recently issued clarification around Consumer Credit Agreements and particular sections of these agreements. Therefore, we are working through this clarification to consider if this impacts cases that are presently with us, including yours.’ – do you have any insight into what this may mean for her complaint as she’s very worried. I can see very little difference between her circumstances and mine so I’m surprised HSBC have offered me anything. Is the Supreme Court clarification to do with the 6 year rule? I’ve tried googling this but can’t find anything about it.
Thanks so much for your help, this is all really reassuring and I wasn’t expecting to hear anything after my friend’s response. I would never have acted had I not heard about all this on the BBC and then found your page! I now have some credit cards I may look at tackling but I’m really hoping my friend gets a similar outcome to me. Thanks again!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am guessing, but the Smith v RBS judgement was last year and concerned Limitations Act – https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2022-0004-judgment.pdf
FOS is doing some internal review of how if makes decisions on cases going back over 6 years. At the moment some of its decisions are a bit random… If it decides to follow the same principles as Smith v RBs, I think that may possibly be a good and simple option.
Siobhan says
For anyone who doesn’t think their adjudicator has made the right decision. Please do take it further. The adjudicator disagreed with me so I asked to take it to the Ombudsman and the ombudsman has agreed with me, refund on all interest, fees and charges, 8% simple
Interest and removal of all negative markers. This “should” pay the off the remaining debt from my overdraft. It was a small overdraft but I was living it and going over it within days of being paid.
Sara thank you for all that you do on here, anything left over I will make a donation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A small donation to your local Citizens Advice or a local food bank would be lovely.
mike chapman says
I have recently contacted Barclays, I have had my overdraft since university and it crept up to £1950. My wages would clear it but then within days I would be back into it. After hearing nothing for 4 weeks Barclays called and I have had my overdraft cleared and £2.5k as a goodwill gesture. Well worth doing if it is causing you grief.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
two questions
– Has anyone had a recent letter (spring 2024) from Barclays about a refund that has arrived out of the blue, not in response to a complaint?
– Has anyone with a case at FOS about “jurisdiction ” – wanting a refund for overdraft charges over 6 years ago – had an odd message from an investigator/adjudicator about this?
JayDEE says
Hiya,
The jurisdiction comment came up during FOS process with my complaint with RBS. This is what they said:
‘I’ve been in correspondence with RBS since sending my initial assessment for account ending 9095, as they’ve raised further jurisdiction time limits on your complaints.’
My complaint is about an overdraft from 2012 that I am still currently in. The Ombudsman has offered a provisional decision to go back 6 years.
Jack says
Had account(s) with Halifax maybe 2. From what I remember it was unauthorised overdraft(s) at first then I stupidly changed the amount of the overdraft(s). The accounts have now been closed and believe passed onto debt collectors and possible ccjs. Can I still use this template. I can’t remember the account details either. Also will interest still be added daily to this day. This was about 6 – 8 years ago maybe a little more. Do I have any chance of getting this wiped or a refund. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago were the accounts closed? Have they just been sold? What shows on your credit record at the moment for these overdraft debts?
Jack says
Have looked on clearscore, it still shows two Halifax current accounts as open overdraft used 0 although I’m positive I had at least two overdrafts shows a closed Halifax account closed 30th July 2020. There’s a link financial in default which I think is for the overdraft maybe the closed one? Also 3 ccjs which I again have no idea what any of them are one is for about 1800 I think that maybe to do with the overdraft again I’ve no idea or how to find out what each of them are for.
Copied this off clear score
July 2020 Link Financial Reported on 30 July
June 2020 Halifax Reported on 30 June.
Last balance £1,600
Updated on 27 September 2020
Halifax current account 1. Overdraft used £0
Updated on 17 March 2024
No missed payments this year
Halifax current account 2. Overdraft used £0
Updated on 17 March 2024
No missed payments this year.
Apologies if the formatting is bad
Thank you for your reply.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so first you have to find out what the CCJs are for. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/unknown-ccj-credit-record/
Emily says
Hi,
I have been in my Halifax overdraft most of the month for over 7 years, however it is only £500, would I still have a case?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is “most of the month” nearly all of it?
Emily Cook says
Yes at least 20 days
Emily says
They have sent me this in reply to my email:
‘Hi, thanks for reaching out.
I understand how important this must be for you. I have reviewed your account, and I can see that you are using the overdraft and making the payments. As the payments are paying in delayed it got fee charge.
Towards the complaint as there is no bank error, we are not able to uphold the complaint. I will take this as feedback, we take every feedback seriously.
Do you mind me asking, is everything manageable with your finances?‘
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds like a weird reply. Did they also tell you you could take the case to the Ombudsman?
What are the rest of your finances like?
Emily says
Thanks so much for replying Sara. The rest of my finances are becoming more manageable as I consolidated a number of debts last year and now earn more money but I have never managed to clear this overdraft. I used the template you provided to send the original email but as that’s the response I received I feel like they didn’t understand my complaint? Unsure what to do now or if I even have a case. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So they never told you you had the right to take the case to the Ombudsman?
Emily says
Hi Sara, I’ve had a letter back from Halifax today saying the below, what should I do now?
Based on what you’ve told me and my initial review, the cause of some of your complaint happened too long ago, which means we’re not taking ti any further and I’m declining some of your complaint. I appreciate this may not be what you were hoping, so l’d like to explain why and what you can do next.
There are time limits for you to send us your concerns
We’re regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), who set time limits for us to consider complaints. This means we don’t usually look at complaints about something that happened more than six years ago. But, we appreciate you may not have known you had a complaint by then. So, fi you realised you had a reason to complain at a later date, you needed to have told us within three years of that time.
As you took out your arranged overdraft in February 2018, you needed to let us know about your concerns by February 2024. Because you didn’t get ni touch with us by this date, we’re not taking your complaint any further. Based on what we know, we believe you would have been aware about the affordability of your arranged overdraft by 13 August 2017 because we contacted our customers
about the changes to the way arranged overdrafts are charged and we believe it’s reasonable you’d have contacted us if you had concerns about the overdraft, so the three-year limit ended on 13 August 2020.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That doesn’t make much sense. When did your overdraft start. – was it Feb 18? Or before Aug 17 when they said they wrote to you about it?
How many days of the month are you in your overdraft? How long has it been like this?
Emily says
Hi Sara, sorry it’s not letting me reply to the bottom of the thread. I am in my overdraft almost all of the month every month.
I think it was taken out in Feb 2017.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok then send this straight to the Ombudsman. If you would happy to just get a refund for the last 6 years – which is almost all of the time the account was open – then say this as it will speed up the case at the Ombudsman
Dominic says
Waited a week for the letter from Barclays without it arriving. I decided to call and the rep read out the letter to me. Basically denying they were at fault, that they tried to contact me etc etc.
eventually we came to the good bit and as a gesture of goodwill they are offering me 6 years of fees and interest totalling just short of £7k. I haven’t accepted yet, will sleep on it but very happy.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
gotta love that sort of goodwill gesture!
Becky says
Hi Sara, I’m wondering if you could offer me some advice pls. I had an account with natwest, opened in 2016. In 2017 an overdraft was applied for and accepted by the bank. This was managed to be increased twice, within a short period of time resulting in being increased to £4050. We never got out of the overdraft once it was on the account and got into some serious financial issues through lack of work at the time for my husband. Due to this we ended up losing our home and myself suffering with anxiety and depression. I believe that Natwest didn’t look at our circumstances/finances and increased without looking at our account. I was advised in 2018 or 2019 to open a new bank account by the CAB which I did. The natwest debt has been passed to lowell (I received a letter yesterday) and I’m not sure what to do with it. Any advic3 would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What other debts do you have?
Becky says
I had another overdraft with Halifax that I’ve now paid, I had to go on a repayment plan to get this repaid and it was a miracle to get it repaid. That was in 2019 I think. I submitted a complaint to Halifax which they did not uphold on the basis they didn’t do anything wrong. This claim would need to go back over 6 years. The OD was £3k and was increased at some point, I have no idea when. Is there any point taking this to the FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes there is. It will be slow at the Ombudsman but you may Get a good result in the end.
Daniel says
Thanks Sara for this article – with very minimal effort my side, am now being refunded nearly £4000 in backdated LLoyds Bank overdraft fees from 2018, and I feel I can now get my debts back on track after being on a Stepchange plan.
I’d strongly reccomend that anyone that’s questioning whether or not to do this go ahead and log a complaint – the worst that can happen is they say no, and you’ve lost a little bit of time – the pros FAR outweigh the cons.
Adam says
Hi Sara
I put in a claim for overdraft fees to be returned from Lloyds Bank as per the article, some stretched back to 2016 which I know might be outside the 6 year limit. The bank responded taking part culpability and offered a small sum so I referred to ombudsman as I don’t think it was the full amount. I had this response back from the ombudsman today
“Further to your email of 18 March 2024 regarding your complaint.
Lloyds have confirmed that they don’t consent to us investigating all the lending decisions due to the length of time that has passed since you raised your complaint.
We’re carefully considering some issues around our jurisdiction to consider complaints like yours where the business hasn’t consented.
I’ll be in touch with an update at least every 30 days.
Kind regards”
Does this mean they are looking at a possibility of going back further than 6 years?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it does. There is a review at the moment – I am hoping it will come up with a fair way of deciding when to go back as it has all been rather random
Adam says
Oh that’s interesting, thank you for the reply..is there any time limit on that decision? Or just have to be patient and wait it out?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No time scale.
Paul says
Need some advice on what to do please.
I complained to Santander about my £5k overdraft as I have been in it since 2017, my wages go in, and I am still in it, and so on.
I didn’t hear from them in the timescale, so referred it to the FOS.
I heard back from them today with Santanders offer, which is below:
“Santander is settling the complaint, and we are proposing to refund fees applied between October 2021 to date of settlement plus 8% compensatory interest.
I believe I am due more as they should be going back 6 years, to 2018, as i was heavily in overdraft them, too.
My question is, if I reject this offer, do I risk losing it entirely,, or is it the case that they have already admitted some liability so i should try and pursue the rest, which will not effect their existing offer?
Any advice will be greatly appreciated before i go back to the FOS with my decision.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did they give any reason for choosing Oct 2021 as the start date?
Was you situation in 2019 and 2020 the same as 2021?
Paul says
No explanation whatsoever.
Yes, if I go back 6 years to April 2018, I was heavily in overdraft then too.
They also have me a credit card during that time. Is it with pursuing that too?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you go back nd say that your overdraft was a big problem well before October 2021 and you don’t think this offer is reasonable.
And yes, send in a complaint about the credit card! Add to the credit card template claim that Santander should have seen from your overdraft situation that you would not be able to afford the repayments on a credit card.
Paul says
Thank. FOS have agreed to investigate further and as you said, they also recommend that I complain about the credit card.
Thanks for your advice. Appreciated and spot on.
B says
Hi Sara,
I have an overdraft with Santander. It’s £1,000, I got it when I went to uni in 2014. Maxed it it out by then end of my 1st year and have pretty much been in it since. Any income I made went in to this account but my income would always pretty much cover my living costs. For around 1.5 years now Ive had my income go into my Monzo account. And over time changed my direct debits there too. Some months I’d go beyond the overdraft (direct debits) but I’d always pay it back. I haven’t touched my account for a few months now but because of monthly fees I’m now over drawn by £103. And now today I opened a letter stating my overdraft has been removed and I’m now in an unarranged overdraft of £1103! Which I can’t pay off in full any time soon (I am currently trying to clear off other debt (a loan, and virtual credit card), am just wondering if complaining will counteract this? Or if I will still be liable to pay this amount until they reach a decision and possibly have my account be defaulted before then?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How large are the loan and credit card you are trying to clear?
B says
The loan is £10,000, with Monzo, £14,000 with interest. The virtual credit card is the Monzo ‘flex’ card and it’s £1,000 but a couple £100 more with interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It isnt surprising that Santandaer have done this, with no money going in and the overdraft now exceeding its limit. You should have carried on paying at least the charges every month. Were you hoping Santander wouldn’t notice?
Or is it simply unaffordable now you have this other loan? In that case you need to talk to StepChange about a debt management plan for all of your debts.
Is the loan really affordable? Monzo should have seen your continuous overdraft usage.
Yes, you should complain to Santander. Any amount refunded will reduce the balance of the debt. But interest will carry on being charged while the complaint goes through. And because of the age of the account Santander will probably reject it and it will have to go to the ombudsman.
S says
I lived in the UK from 2011-2020 during which time my overdraft from Lloyds gradually increased to £5000. I have been living at the limit of my overdraft for ten years and estimate I’ve paid around £12-15k in interest during this time. A cursory look at my transactions would have revealed many payments to gambling outfits and payday loan companies.
I now live in another country but still have an active Lloyds account and am a British citizen. Will bring outside the country impact my ability to go to the ombudsman?
Do you recommend I ask Lloyds to refund all interest from the first time they increased by overdraft despite me living at the limit of my original OD? I am only now aware of the ability to complain about this clearly irresponsible lending.
Thank you for your very helpful resource :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can make a complaint to lloyds and then send it to the Ombudsman if you are out of the country. You need to make it clear how lloyds can contact you as many banks send a letter to the last address they have for you on file.
lloyds are very likely to reject this as the account is so old. the Ombudsman can decide to go back further than 6 years if you have only just found out that lloyds should have been reviewing your overdraft annually and should have seen you were reliant on the overdraft, which is only meant to be for temporary difficulties. the ombudsman is currently conducting an internal review of how it makes decisions about these over 6 years case, so the complaint at the ombudsman may go slow – that is a reason to start it now, not to delay.
S says
Thank you Sarah, Lloyds have my current international address on file so that’s not an issue.
I had been using my overdraft for day-to-day living for many months by 2014 when my overdraft limit was extended three times in September that year. I continued to be in debt for two years when Lloyds incrementally increased my limit a further nine times from October 2016 to October 2017. From there the account shows 22k of gambling transactions (there were a lot more cash transactions in casinos) and 5k of payday loans all from 2017-2022. Lloyds had also rejected two loan applications and many more overdraft extensions after 2017 too, and I genuinely feel that should have picked up when they did annual reviews (if they did them).
I did manage to get my account in the black for three months in 2020 thanks to lockdown, a a work bonus, annual leave pay-outs once I resigned and left work. It was everything all at the same time but I (stupidly!) did not proactively reduce my overdraft at the time. Naturally, spending habits and gambling addiction caused this to be maxed out again. Hopefully that small period of solvency doesn’t imply that the overdraft was “responsible”. I’ve been in the red before payday 121 out of the last 124 months.
Thankfully I have not gambled for almost two years now and just want to get my finances in order.
S says
Hi Sara,
One more question for you sorry. Given the amount of respondents here running into delays because of the six-year criteria, do you think there’s any benefit in narrowing my complaint specifically to the interest incurred in the last six years and arguing Lloyd’s lack of forbearance.
My overdraft was already at a $5000 limit by October 2017 (6.5 years ago). I was originally going to argue in my complaint that Lloyds a) Should never have approved overdraft extensions from 2014-2017 and b) they did not show forbearance in checking these accounts. However it seems people are running into problems with banks and FOS conflating both types of complaint. Only claiming the last six years exactly would be about £2.5k less than I was originally planning to claim by arguing the negligence began in 2014, but if it has a higher chance of success, I would consider it.
Thank you again so much for your wonderful advice,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you are happy to accept a refund for just the last 6 years, this would go through faster at the Ombudsman. It’s your decision.
For overdrafts you are arguing that lloyds failed to review your account annually as any review would have shown that it was being used for long term borrowing and that you were relainst on it.
S says
Hi Sara, an update. I have submitted my complaint asking for a refund for interest (+8%). They have been in touch to contact me, and when I asked to proceed by email they’ve given me this response:
“We are unable to discuss cases in detail via email as it isn’t a secure way to get in touch with us. I will try to call you again, however if it’s convenient you can contact me on the below details. If I’m unable to speak to you, I’ll review your complaint using the information I have available and write to you with the outcome at the address we hold on file.”
Note I haven’t received any calls or missed call from them. I probably could speak to them over the phone but wondering if there are any particular trick questions banks will use, or if I can somehow direct this to email instead? I’m not really comfortable being put on the spot on the phone.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t have to speak on the phone if you don’t want to. If you do, my general advice is to have a pen and paper handy, if they are giving you a response listen to what they say but say you would like to see it it writing before deciding whether it is acceptable, if they are asking you questions, say you would like to see them in writing as you aren;t good on the phone.
Chantelle Williams says
Hi, Ive just stumbled across your page when scrolling- I have been in my overdraft since I left university (graduate account £2,000 overdraft) back in 2006 and have lived off it ever since. My wages are paid in every month and I have £1 in credit until I have to pay bills/eat etc. Each month I pay £50 in interest. I was also granted a loan from NatWest (my bank) for £3,000 2 years ago which costs over £100 in repayments and £60-70 in interest charges. I also have credit card payments coming out of my account of £100 plus interest. NatWest attempted to put me on a repayment plan (£100 a month) around 4 years ago but I had to speak to them to stop as I couldn’t afford it. Would it be worth putting in a claim? Each month, I am struggling to make minimum payments on the loan and credit card but with the extra interest charges, this isn’t sustainable in any way. I’d appreciate any advice
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is definitely worth a complaint about the overdraft. Expect NatWest to reject it as the account was opened so long ago.
But you should be able to get a refund that goes back at least 6 years if you send ths to the Ombudsman after any rejection (or poor offer).
You can also say in your complaint that you think Natwest should have been more helpful when you were unable to afford the repayment plan they proposed.
Also send a separate complaint about the loan – the fact you were constantly in the overdraft and had been unable to afford NatWest’s proposed repayment plan means that the loan was probably always going to make your situation worse.
Adam says
Hi Sarah
I have put a complaint in to Barclays regarding personal reserve charges
I was always in overdraft and personal reserve and was getting charged £88 to £110 a month this went on from 2008 until atleast 2013 I was never out of it wages never covered it. I had the over draft due a package back account I did receive my money back and interest for this. I also received a some of £900 in 2018 part of the redress still unsure what this was for.
I had gambling addiction back then my full statments were full of gambling transactions also missed direct debit every month.
I complained 2 days ago I have recieved a text today from them and I have rang to basically be told the complaints handler would not contact me for my opinion on why I think I need these back nor had they upheld I find it impossible for them to of even looked at my case
A letter in the post and am really wanting advice should I go to financial ombudsman with this I don’t have old bank statements etc but I really feel they have just tried to brush me off. The customer service advisor even said to me take it to ombudsman any help is grateful thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the account still open? If not, when was it closed?
Your packaged bank account complaint, was this through a claims company? Did it go to the Ombudsman? How long ago?
Adam says
Account was closed in around 2015
With a nil balance due to redress from package account backpaided
Package bank account claim was done by my self around 2014. I also mentioned then surely my reserve fees should have been looked at and they said no.
No ombudsman or claim company used for any. Any help would be grateful
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you re likely to have problems with this. First because the bank will say you should have gone to the Ombudsman about the reserve fees in 2015. Second because the bank may not even have retained the statements and other information as the account has been closed for nearly 10 years.
KB says
Hi Sara
You will likely see that I’ve posted a few times here, I’ve found that Santander are being particularly difficult with my complaint. I raised the overdraft complaint which is with FOS it has now had to be escalated to the ombudsman for final review due to Santander disagreeing they are at fault. I know a number of friends and family who have complained and had all their fees refunded with the 8% interest and Santander claim this would have been good will gesture as they will not accept they are at fault for unaffordable lending. I guess I’m just popping this here to see if others find Santander are being just as difficult with them this has become quite a stressful and time consuming situation now
Jason says
Hi Sara,
I made an affordability complaint with the FOS regarding my overdraft which I first took out in 2010 for £800 when I was 20. This was increased in stages over the next 6 years of £400-£1600 resulting in a final overdraft limit of £4,900. Throughout this time entire time I was using payday loans on a regular basis, a £5k loan taken out in 2013 along with a wage between £800-£1,200 during those years. I was at my overdraft limit at every overdraft increase request and in between the increases, HSBC had rejected me for several loans only then to increase my overdraft a few months later.
HSBC gave them permission to look at the complaint but the FOS had now come back saying they’re not upholding it pretty much because HSBC couldn’t provide them with any information into their checks or any bank statements going back that far.
Is there anything I can do? As HSBC can’t provide them with any information whatsoever, apparently.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this account still open? If not, when was it closed?
Do you have any old statements or information?
Jason says
Yes, the account is still open. I use a different primary bank account now for everything but this is still open as I am slowly putting money into it to pay it back..
From the adjudicators response, it appears that HSBC have told them that they have no previous statements to give them
However, since I asked this question to you , I have contacted HSBC and at least asked for statements leading to my final increase in October 2016. They have said if u put it in writing to their Data Protection department then they will be able to issue me with statements from over 6 years ago. The oldest statement I have to hand is June 2017. I’m a bit gutted really as I had some statements from 2014 which HSBC supplied me with last year no problem when I had a different affordability case but I disposed of them!
The other thing is the FOS would have seen from HSBC final response letter that in between the increases, I had several credit cards and loans rejected by them which showed I was desperate for money, only a few months before being accepted for the overdraft increases.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ke a request fro all your back statemets to Data protection – see page 23 here https://www.hsbc.co.uk/content/dam/hsbc/gb/pdf/privacy-notice-full.pdf
And tell your investigator that HSBC has told you to make this request, so as for the case to be put on hold until you get them.
Jason says
Thank you Sara, I will do this. Interesting that it states they keep for 7 years AFTER relationship with customer ends for reasons such as disputes.
Jason says
Hi Sara,
So I sent the request to HSBC data protection department and I have just received a letter back from the HSBC banking team that they don’t hold any old bank statements older than July 2017…. Which the customer advisor previous told me they could provide me instantly on the phone. This advisor also assured me that I would be able to obtain older statements by requesting to data protection. A friend of mine was recently given a statement from HSBC from 2011 so do they just delete statements at random? From what they’ve said, it seems like HSBC don’t keep any old bank statements at all so seems pretty pointless in anyone trying to get them… I have seen on other forums that when this has happened, people have asked for a ‘certificate of destruction’ – is this a thing?
I’m absolutely gutted that HSBC are trying to make this as difficult as possible so I am going to try and find old payslips to prove my income around the time of overdraft increases along with evidence of high interest loans I had during those years to send to the FOS. Do you think that would help at all? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have ever heard of a certificate of destruction for bank data. And I’m not sure how it would help you .
You may be able to prove that you were in financial difficulty , but that won’t help much if there is no evidence of what the overdraft and interest charges were… as how can a refund be calculated?
You said you had Previously got statements for 2014. What affordability complaint was this for?
Jason says
Wouldn’t they have an annual statement of fees that they’ve charged me as part of their records? Ie overdraft interest and fees… A refund could be calculated from that.
In HSBC’s final response letter they stated they could see that I was ‘fully utilising’ my overdraft and ‘never really came out of it’ in 2016 (the time of the final increase) so how were they able to know this without looking at bank statements? Or whatever they were viewing.
Two separate customer service agent also told me that I would be able to get the statements and quoted ‘definitely’ when I asked if I would be able to get them. This was a conversation on their live chat which I still have.
One last thing, I have also noticed that the dates HSBC provided the FOS are inaccurate about my increases. They said I had 5 increases, for example the last increase was from £3300-£4900 but on my online banking secure messages the acceptance messages are still on there and in 2016 alone my overdraft had 4 increases – 2900 – 3100 – 3300 – 3500- 3900- 4900. On two occasions this was within a month of each other.
2014 bank statements – this was for a credit card affordability complaint but the FOS determined it could not look back that far so I never ended up sending them to the FOS and got rid of them.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you ask for those annual statements?
You are still being charged interest at the moment?
Jason says
I will. I would think there should be some sort of record that HSBC has where they’ve actually received money. Also, regardless of a refund of charges, I’m hoping it can be just seen that this overdraft was simply unaffordable.
No they froze interest in 2019 as they contacted me due to it being overdrawn all the time and that I’d been constantly maxing out my overdraft for years, which they had stated in their phone call with me.
June 2023 I stopped using it normally. It is still an open account though.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so the 2017-19 bank statements will show what they were charging at that point.
You can argue that you paid much the same for several years before 2017
Jason says
Yes. An annual summary of fees I have noticed generates every August. So they have told me they can only go back as far as statements to July 2017. Therefore they should be able to give me an annual statement of fees for the period August 2016-August 2017. This showing the amount of interest I would have paid in August 2016 and September 2016 would be calculated to show that I was paying the maximum interest on my overdraft in those months before the final overdraft increase in October 2016. And therefore paying the maximum amount of interest would show that I was maxing out my overdraft without having to see bank statements. Does this sound about right?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should argue that
ella says
Hi Sara,
I have an IVA. how do i go about complaining about overdraft and loans that were offered to me when i really couldnt afford to pay them back and was struggling to pay off previous.
Nationwide kept upping my overdraft. I would get paid each month and come out of my overdraft only to be back in it when my bills etc had been paid, so i would spend majority of the month in my overdraft. Same happened with Monzo.
I was then offered an Amex and the limit kept going up with that even though i was struggling to pay it off. Is there anything I can do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
these are debts that went into your IVA?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so you can make a complaint, but if it is upheld, the refund will be used to reduce the balance of the debts in your IVA. How large were the debts that went into the IVA? And how large were these Nationwide, Monzo and Amex debts?
How much are you paying each month to the IVA and how far through it are you?
Ella says
I started it in May last year, it’s a 5 year Iva.
Debt was £8000 think it’s gone down to £7000 now
Amex was 4500
Monzo was around 1350
Nationwide was 1750
I am paying £123 a month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is the IVA with? Is the 123 affordable?
As this is such a low amount of debt, it may well be worth making affordability complaints. Even if they just reduce your debts, then the IVA may possibly complete sooner.
It is a Shame no one advised you to look at affordability complaints instead of an IVA to start with.
Douglas says
Hi Sara,
I’m currently in a repayment plan with Santander set to last 10 months, have an agreement from Santander after escalating to Ombudsman investigator that they will partially refund charges, and while it will not clear the overdraft it will reduce the repayment timescale to 6 months.
There was also a specification from the Ombudsman to backdate any negative credit file impact to 2022 – however as I am still in the payment plan Santander have advised that doing this at present would show I’ve been in an arrangement from 2022 – 2024, which is to my detriment. I queried if this could instead be done once the arrangement has been settled, with my intention being that the negative payment arrangement completed marker be moved back 2 years to show I have been responsible since. Ombudsman has again advised this would do more damage than good – is this correct and do you think the offer is fair?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What shows at the moment?
Douglas says
A late payment marker that is damaging my credit rating every month and since December more or less ruined my credit score
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so what are Santader proposing to do? leave the late payment marker where it is?
There are no rules as to how other lenders react to credit records . Lenders do NOT use the credit score you see.
Douglas says
I’ve also had another reply from Ombudsman investigator saying Santander are not liable to refund the first year of charges that applied to my overdraft, because even though I was at or close to maximum overdraft limit from the years preceding charges being added in July 2019 – July 2021, the account was a graduate account and did not charge any fees until July 2021 onwards, so Santander would have had no way of knowing I was in financial difficulty until July 2022 after around £600 of charges had been added. I’m thinking of challenging this as it doesn’t seem right that in the yearly review before adding charges, Santander would look at my account, see it is dormant with no income and at max limit, check my credit position and think it is appropriate to start charging fees on top. Could you please advise?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think it’s worth going to the Ombudsman. I don’t know if you will win, but you won’t if you give up.
Mary says
Hi Sara,
I put in an affordability complaint with Santander after 10 years of being unable to get out of my £2000 overdraft – I’ve been being charged for the last 6 so have paid over £4000 in fees. I had a call from them just to ‘check in’ where they advised me they were looking at my case and did say that ‘whatever happens your overdraft will be taken away’.
I then didn’t hear anything else until I logged into my account to find my overdraft gone but only using £1300 of refunded money and the rest of my wages (my money for the month) having been sucked up into that. I now have been left with £50 for the month and was only paid 4 days ago, no one advised me on what was going to happen or checked that I would be okay if they did this and have refunded me a fraction of what I’ve paid them over the years. I also have had no follow up phone call or have any way of getting hold of the person I spoke to on the phone – she didn’t even tell me her name.
Is this something I can take to the financial ombudsman?
Thank you for all of your incredible work and advice!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This is very unusual.
You need to phone Santander and ask why you have not been sent a decision and why you were not given any warning of you overdraft being removed.
If it has been 8 weeks since you complained, you can send the case immediately to the Ombudsman and also complaint abither withdrawal of your overdraft with no notice.
JD says
Hi Sara, would you happen to have any update on the paused jurisdiction related complaints or know when the ombudsman is due to come to a conclusion on the scope of the 3/6 year rule?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no, but I am optimistic because the simple option for FOS would be to move in line with what would be done in similar legal cases, and that would be much clearer and simpler (good) and also allow FOS to go back more than 6 years in many cases.
JD says
Excellent, appreciate your input and thanks for all all the support that you have provided and continue to provide to everyone!
D says
Hi Sara
That’s interesting. Can you expand on what you mean?, i.e what you mean by in ‘legal cases’. Only I thought it was harder to go back further than 6 years, in say, a small claims court, than FOS. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These aren’t standard small claims type arguments. But several legal cases (eg Patel v Patel and Smith v RBS) have judgments that say the time for Limitations to start running is on the closing of an account, not its opening. And affordability complaints are based legally on an unfair relationship under the Consumer Credit Act and that relationship ends when the account is closed not when it is opened.
D says
Thank you Sara
This really helpful. I didn’t know this and may make a difference to me. Thank you
Jason says
Hi Sara,
I currently have an ongoing overdraft affordability case with the FOS which I’ve posted on here however I’m after another bit of advice if you can help at all…. Last year HSBC allowed me to go over my arranged overdraft by hundreds for gambling purposes, but at the same time rejecting direct debit payments to other Creditors. I complained about this and was refunded £1600 as they admitted fault that they shouldn’t have allowed that to happen (rejecting DD’s yet allowing me to gamble it instead). The 1600 refunded my gambling usage plus to cover the DD’s that were rejected….. It’s actually only just hit me now that this actually happened multiple times in the years previously, which got me in so much financial trouble, so the fact that they admitted they shouldn’t have allowed this, is it worth me complaining for all those previous years? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes if you think this happened a lot.
Jason says
Thank you.
AO says
Hi Sara, do you know what the review is about with the FO? I’ve lodged a complaint with them re an overdraft with Halifax and it’s been with the Ombudsman now for a decision for 6 months? Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think they are looking at how they make what they call “jurisdiction” decisions – where you are complaining about something that happened more than 6 years ago, FOS has to make a decision about when it can look at the case.
Ryan says
Hi Sara,
I have used your form to deal with my now closed overdraft and credit card with TSB and they have come back to me with an offer to refund all of the charges for my overdraft to a sum of £1,100.
My overdraft with them was £3000 and my credit card £2,500
I am going to push back and ask for a greater offer, however I would like some advice.
1. With my credit card they have given dates that do not align with when the account was opened – they talk about the card being opened in 2022 but mentioned I took advantage of a balance transfer September 2020 – does this mixup/incompetence work in my favour?
2. They claim that they have done no wrong despite allowing me to add an initial overdraft of £250 then allowing 12 applications to increase my overdraft to be approved from £250 to £3000 in a 3 month period – should this have been picked up by the bank?
3. They know I completed a balance transfer to the credit card meaning I had existing debts elsewhere – would they have identified this if they annually reviewed my overdraft?
4. I have never received an annual review nor any support with the overdraft but when I paid off all of my debts in lump sum suddenly they started writing to me telling me they were reducing my limit on the credit card in line with their responsible lending practices – after never reviewing my account when I was actually in debt?
5. I had issues with drug use and gambling although I didn’t use gambling websites there are just consistent cash withdrawals which would support this – would this help my case to ask for more?
I feel that I can push back and get more, what do you think?
Could I lose the original offer?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
an offer to refund all of the charges for my overdraft to a sum of £1,100.
Is that all the charges from the time the account was opened? or from some date?
Ryan says
Hey Sara,
Those are the charges for the overdraft during the time it was on my account. They refused to do anything with the credit card despite approving it while I was in consistent debt of my overdraft
I have written back to them advising that I am unhappy with their resolution and to revise their offer, and gave them a breakdown of where they have failed to review my circumstances and offer support with my overdraft, so hoping they will reply soon.
At no point did they review my overdraft or credit card during this time, and only reduced my credit card limit once both my overdraft and credit card balances were back in the black. No support during the time I owed them thousands and they were happy to claw money away from me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you need to focus clearly on what you are complaining about.
If they have offered a full refund for the overdraft, then you so get any more for that.
But the overdraft problems may well be a reason to expect the bank to refund the credit card interest as well.
I suggest you reply saying the refund on the overdraft is satisfactory, but you would like 5em to reconsider the credit card, or that part of your complaint will be sent to the Ombudsman
Cece Ais says
The investigator sided with me in August 2023, however barclays asked for the case to be sent to the ombudsman for s final decision.
I was informed in October 2023 that the ombudsman’s is reviewing the case. Its may now,7 months later and still no decision. The initial complaint was made over 1 year ago. Is this normal?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no that isn’t normal = go back and ask if there is any other information the ombudsman needs
Cece Ais says
The last I heard was in March 2024
The investigator replied saying
‘ Thank you for your email. I apologise you’ve had to wait some months now. Unfortunately I’m not able to confirm when your case will be reviewed by an Ombudsman as cases are picked up from oldest to newest. Therefore any delay would onnly be as a result of an older case needing to be reviewed first.
As mentioned, I will be in touch as soon as we have any further update for you.
Thanks for your co-operation
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so this is in the queue for an Ombudsman. it hasn’t yet been picked up by an Ombudsman. I would still phone them again every couple of months.
Cece Ais says
Thanks for the reply. I got in touch with them yesterday but no reply yet. 7 months for the ombudsman to review seem a bit odd.
Such delays is likely going to dis oursge people from making claims.
How woukd the court deal with such delays, should limitation period be used as a defence?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
a 7 month delay to get an Ombudsman decision is unusual at the moment, that is why I am suggesting you phone up and ask what is happening.
You cannot take the Ombudsman to court about this delay.
Or is your reference to “limitation period@ because the ombudsman is making a decision on whether FOS can look at a claim about something that happened over 6 years ago?
Cece Ais says
Maby thanks for the reply.
The limitation period is in reference to a consumer taking the bank to court but it takes the ombudsman 2 years to arrive at a decision, at which time the issue woukd be out of the 6 year limitation period.
The 7 months seems very strange and I do send the investigator emails every month but its really becoming frustrating.
I cannot imagine cases being longer than mine in thr queue.
Worse off the investigator cannot tell me when to expect the ombudsmann to review the case. The initial complaint was made I think November 2022.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Phone up, don’t email.
Cece Ais says
After 7 months awaiting Ombudsman review, the investigator wrote me today saying she still does not know when the case will be reviewed by the ombudsman.
Apologies I was not able to answer your calls today. I have just tried to return your call but wasn’t able to reach you.
This case is awaiting review by an Ombudsman. I’m sorry it’s taken a while and i appreciate your continued patience.
Once the Ombudsman has your case on desk I will notify you. As mentioned previously, I’m not able to confirm when the case may be picked up by an Ombudsman as they are worked from oldest to newest. This means any delay would only be as a result of other cases which are older than this, that need an answer on them first.
I will be in touch as soon as I have any updates for you.
Thank you again for your continued patience.
Marie Davis says
I received a letter this week from a debt collection agency advising my overdraft debt of £2,918.83 was handed to them from HSBC, from an account that was joint with my ex husband, I know I was paying a nominal amout from 2010/11 by D/D but the payments stopped, can’t remember why? ( I know it was a £2000 overdraft and we were still well in it when we lost our jobs, had the insurance paying the mortgage from same bank and had taken out loans from other lenders, had no idea until literally 5 mins ago they may have been irresponsibly lending)! addressed with my previous married name, I have since remarried (closed, actually whenl our debit card were retained when we used an ATM between 2004-2008 with the ‘no predudice’ pay back of bank charges, HSBC advised they didn’t know why our cards had been swallowed up, we later received a letter confirming closure of our joint account. They obviously still have details of my account to sell debt on… Is the time line too far back?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so when was the account closed?
Tina says
20 years ago I took out an overdraft for £7000 with Nat West Bank. I’ asked Nat West how much I’ve paid back and they confirmed I have so far paid £24,646.32 for this overdraft. Over the years I applied for loans and was always refused. I’ve used your framework to write to them and complain. I’ve had a response saying as it’s been 4 months since I wrote I can contact the FCA which I have done. They have confirmed they will look into it. I was hoping Nat West would at least look at this quickly given that I am on a low income, 60 years old and paying £205 per month for the overdraft especially as many on here seem to be having success. Many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The total amount paid back isn’t an interesting number to focus on as you may have cleared the overdraft down and then borrowed a lot more. For example supposing you borrowed 6000 over a period of a year, then cleared it all, then did the same again three times, that would be probably be over 28k repaid included the charges added.
That doesn’t mean you have a weak case, just that other numbers are much much more important.
The best numbers to show how unaffordable the overdraft is now are:
– how many days of the month are you in your overdraft? all of the month? Or do you get ourt for a couple of days or a couple of weeks when you get paid?
– how long has this been going on?
as it’s been 4 months since I wrote I can contact the FCA which I have done.
I hope that is a typo for FOS, the Financial Ombudsman.
Dorota says
Hi Sara,
I have made a complaint to barclays regards my overdraft. First I send in post, my letter was ignored and I know they received it because they sign for it. Then I contacted them by application, and I was informed they haven’t received anything. I made another complaint from my application. I have received my answer after 2 weeks saying that it not their fault but they offered me £1500 as a gesture of good will. I haven’t accepted the offer and I went to FOS. I have been on my overdraft since 2012 and I was always on low income. My balance was never clear and I was using overdraft to pay for bills, food etc. In 2022 I took a loan to pay it of because charges were really high and my income was £1600 a month and my overdraft was £4000 and I always was close to the limit. During those years bank was increasing my limit starting from £1000 -4000 knowing I am in financial difficulties. In 2020-2022 I was unemployed and I didnt have any income besides universal credit which was around £300 but they never offered me any help. Now I have received a email from FOS saying sorry for delays but Your case, along with several others, is impacted by the High Court’s clarification on consumer credit agreements. Therefore, we are considering this clarification and how it impacts consumers. Not sure what to think ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
FOS is doing some internal review of how it makes decisions on cases going back over 6 years. This affects cases like your that are in progress and whioch it seems are now on hold until FOS decides what to do.
At the moment some of its decisions on over 6 year cases are a bit random…
If FOS decides to follow the same principles as a recent Supreme Court case (Smith v RBS https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2022-0004-judgment.pdf) I think that may possibly be a good and simple option.
D says
Hi Sara
Quick question and your thoughts. If the FOS do decide to now follow the above decision, would there be any scope to request the FOS re visit past decisions. My partners overdraft complaint was only taken back 6 years (this was about 18 months ago). He still has the overdraft now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would be surprised if that was possible
Chris Clarke says
I’m in financial hardship, Lloyds don’t believe me. they never warned me my student account from 2012 would eventually charge me daily!
I’ve asked them for the £1200+ fees back, but they’ve rejected. They don’t think they’ve done anything wrong and that the OD is affordable for me because based on my income and ‘priority payments’ there is a ‘small surplus’ at the end of the month, but they don’t realise that there is only money available at the end of the month because I have to save up throughout the month to pay the bills that go out on the 1st. Also because I had some money in an e-saver account briefly in 2021, that’s gone against me too! They say that they would have explained that it would change back to a normal account eventually, but they didn’t. And because I took out the account over 6 years ago, I would have had to have complained within 3 years since they started charging the fees, but I wasn’t aware that I was even ALLOWED to complain let alone that there was a deadline.
They’ve also approved my £1000 credit card, increased CC limit, and £1000 loan while I was deep in the OD. Should I have mentioned those in the complaint?
Take the case to the FOS, or a waste of time?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how many days of the month are you in the overdraft?
Chris Clarke says
I’m in the overdraft every single day of the month at the moment, and have been since 2022.
I haven’t been ‘in the black’ since the 28th of December 2022.
I’ve been in and out of the overdraft since 2012, never able to fully get out of it and stay out of it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so in 2021 and 2022, on average how many days a month were you in your overdraft?
Chris Clarke says
In 2021 it was most days, around 70% of the month. Since 28th of December 2022 until now it has been every day of the month. A straight year and a half of being in it every single day, not a single day of being out of the overdraft since then.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok then this is worth sending to the Ombudsman. Make your point that lloyds never told you interest would be charged, but also say that lloyds should have seen the heavy overdraft usage and known from that you were in difficulty.
You need to make a separate complaint about the credit card – use the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/.
And another one about the loan see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/.
In both of those, change the template so that it says lloyds should have seen that the card /loan wouldn’t be affordable because of your overdraft usage.
Dave says
So my wife was in her overdraft with Halifax from 2010 to 2022! Over that period she had payday loans being paid out of her overdraft. Originally paying on average about £440 a year in OD fees and unarranged OD fees. But they changed the way they charged for OD fees around 2018 so they doubled to around £850-£900 a year. During these period they allowed her to increase her overdraft and even gave her a Halifax credit card taking payments for that out of her overdraft!
I’m still printing off statements from over this period as it’s a long time! But it’s looking like her fees will be in excess of around £6000 without any interest added. In the end she struggles to help out with household budget and I ended up going into a debt management program. We eventually got a secured loan to consolidate all our debts including the overdraft which was paid off and ended in 2022
Do we have a case to ask for all these fees going back to 2010?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Does she still have the account? if not, when was it closed?
How many days of the money was she in the overdraft – all, almost all, just a few at the end of the month…
You don’t need to print the bank statements – if this has to go to the ombudsman, Halifax will send them to FOS.
How long ago did she get the Halifax credit card? Did they increase the limit on that?
Dave Smith says
Hi,
The account is still open but unused since Nov 2021 when we paid off the overdraft using a secured loan.
She was in her overdraft permanently over the 12 year period. The only time she was ever out of it was around 2014 when she went from weekly pay to monthly pay and the day her wages went in every month she was out of it (just) but back in it the next day as we needed the money to live and never enough to stop out of the overdraft once paid so I’d say in 12 years her statements show she wasn’t in her overdraft for about 5 or 6 days in total.
We are not sure about the limits etc on the Halifax credit card as we paid that up at the same time with the loan and closed the card account and have no paperwork left for it except for the bank statements showing payments from my wife’s overdraft to it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this sounds like a strong case. Yes I would ask for all the fees going back to 2010 – you may not get them all back but there is no reason to ask for less.
Change the template letters to say that she was only able to clear the overdraft in the end by taking out a secured loan. You don’t need to add up all the fees – just get the complaint in now.
The Ombudsman can always go back 6 years and can make a decision on whether it should go back further. So if NatWest rejects the complaint saying she should have complained before, just send this to the ombudsman.
The case may go slowly there – the ombudsman is doing a review of how it makes these “over 6 year” decisions – but I hope the outcome will be a simpler, quicker process.
The
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Also send in a seperate complaint saying they should never have given her a credit card because of her heavy overdraft usage where they could see payday loans. Amend the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/. That asks for details about when the account was opened and if there were any limit increases.
Rachel says
Hi Sara,
I’m hoping you might be able to help with a different type of query.
With your amazing help, we had the interest and charges refunded from our Natwest Joint account. To recap, we made a complaint based on the fact that my husband diagnosed with an illness in 2021 and had to stop work but Natwest continued to charge us interest and fees. FOS found that Natwest should have reviewed our overdraft and refunded the interest.
Since then, I’ve made another complaint to the FOS because the joint account was also a packaged account with a monthly fee. However, the FOS have said that they wont look at this complaint because it is not within the 6 year rule. I’m reaching out because I don’t understand how the 6 year rule can be okay for one complaint but not the other. I realise this isn’t perhaps within your area of speciality but any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long have you been paying these packaged bank account fees?
Rachel says
Since 2003.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So your first complaint was about something that happened in the last 6 years – FOS can always go back that far when looking at a case so it didn’t even need to think about what it calls “jurisdiction”.
The packaged bank account charges started a long while before that and FOS says it cannot go back more than 6 years … but under some circumstances it could… is this decision from an adjudicator/investigator or an Ombudsman?
Also would you be happy if FOS only looked at the last 6 years for this complaint? or indeed from 2021?