Refunds for unaffordable credit are usually simple – you get a refund of interest paid and, if you still have the account, only have to repay what you borrowed with no added interest. And your credit record is cleaned.
That is the basis for car finance affordability complaints too. But here there is an extra factor – what happens to the car?
When you make a car finance payment, some of it is interest and the rest goes towards buying the car. This affects car finance refunds in some situations.
In the last two years, the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) has upheld an increasing number of car finance affordability complaints. So there is now a good track record of what FOS decides in various situations. Some of these may surprise you…
This article looks at the various types of cases so you can tell what may happen in your case.
I’ll use the Ombudsman’s term redress for the compensation you may get – that covers all the elements, not just a cash refund but a balance reduction and repairing your credit record.
Contents
Important car finance articles
Two articles about car finance affordability complaints:
- Were you sold a car on unaffordable finance? looks at what an affordability complaint is. It is a test about your situation when you bought the car. You can win a car finance affordability complaint if you still have the finance, if it has been repaid in full, if you handed back the car, or if the car was repossessed. You can also win if you made every payment on time!
- How to make a car finance affordability complaint has practical details and a template you can use. It is the same template as for other large loans.
And if you still have the finance, these articles look at your options if you can’t afford to keep paying it:
- Can you manage your current car finance payments? you have to carry on making paying while an affordability complaint goes through, and they often aren’t speedy. So you must decide how you can manage the immediate problem of not being able to pay the finance.
- Voluntarily Terminating your car finance This may not be what you want to do but sometimes you don’t have another practical alternative, so find how it works.
What redress do you get in the four main situations
In all cases
In all the following cases, the Ombudsman normally also says:
- if you are getting a cash refund, then you should be paid 8% simple interest on that amount
- any negative marks on your credit record (missed payments, defaults) should be removed.
A) Car finance repaid
This is the simplest case. Often you will have owned the car at the end of the agreement, but it also includes cases where the car was used in part exchange for another one, sold by you to settle the agreement, or settled by you early eg if you took out a cheaper loan or inherited some money or were given a gift.
The redress here is the same as you would get if another type of loan was found to be unaffordable – you get a refund of interest and charges you paid on the finance. And of course you keep the car!
Here is a typical FOS decision:
As I don’t think Moneybarn ought to have approved the lending, I don’t think it’s fair for it to be able to charge any interest or charges under the agreement. Miss C should therefore only have to pay the original cash price of the car, being £4,999 (of which Miss C paid £700 as an initial payment). Anything Miss C has paid in excess of that amount should be refunded as an overpayment.
And another one:
To settle Ms P’s complaint Oplo should do the following: · Refund any payments Ms P has made in excess of £7,127, representing the original cash price of the car.
Here is a FOS decision where Moneybarn tried to argue that as the car was sold to settle the agreement, they should not have to refund the settlement amount. FOS disagreed and stayed with the standard approach of refunding all interest and charges on the finance.
B) You handed back the car or the lender repossessed it
This covers several sorts of cases – Voluntarily Termination (VT), Voluntarily Surrender (car handed back but not VTed) and Repossession by the lender. The distinguishing feature is that the customer lost the car and the car finance lender ended up with it.
Very often the customer has paid less than the amount borrowed, so the usual approach of refunding interest won’t help. In this decision, the Ombudsman explains why the standard approach isn’t suitable for these cases. The very large numbers in that example are because the car was a new BMW, but the same principle applies to all cases where the lender ended up with the car.
We usually say that the borrower needs to pay back the credit amount provided and that the lender should refund any interest, fees and charges that the borrower paid… So, in this case, this would mean Mr F paying back the £168,436.00 he was originally lent.
But I don’t think that a refund of the interest fees and charges is appropriate here. The car was taken back relatively soon after the agreement started and a settlement on this basis would mean Mr F paying for the full amount lent for a car he had for a few months, without owning the car at the end.
Instead FOS’s typical decision is:
- you should pay a fair usage charge for each month you had the car;
- you get a cash refund of your deposit plus the monthly payments you paid plus any payments made after you no longer had the car, minus the fair usage charge;
- any balance still owing is cleared.
Here is one decision where the original car finance payments had been £266 a month:
Miss P also appears to have paid about 14 payments under the agreement and post-termination she has been paying in monthly amounts to reduce the arrears. I also need to take account of the fact that Miss P had fair use of the car for about 19 months… I think the simplest way to put things right here is to ask Specialist Motor Finance Limited to refund everything that Miss P has paid towards the agreement (including what she has paid post termination of the agreement), less a deduction for usage which I think can be fairly set here at £175 per month.
There is no way to predict what FOS will set the fair usage charge at. It is usually significantly less than the monthly car finance payment. In this decision the Ombudsman talks about setting the fair usage charge:
I note that Mr W did have use of the car for around four months, so I think it’s fair he pays for that use. But I’m not persuaded that monthly repayments of over £220 a month are a fair reflection of what fair usage would be. This is because a proportion of those repayments went towards repaying interest. There isn’t an exact formula for working out what a fair usage should be. In deciding what’s fair and reasonable I’ve thought about the amount of interest charged on the agreement, Mr W’s likely overall usage of the car and what his costs to stay mobile would likely have been if he didn’t have the car. In doing so, I think a fair amount Mr W should pay is £110 for each month he had use of the car. This means Moneybarn can only ask Mr W to repay a total of £440… Anything Mr W has paid in excess of this amount should be treated as an overpayment.
But the fair usage charge is related to the cost of the car, so if you have paid a large deposit then the fair usage charge may not be any less than the monthly repayment.
C) Car finance still running & you have paid MORE than the amount borrowed
Here the typical redress decision is:
- you should only have to repay what you borrowed, with no interest or other charges added;
- any amounts paid over this should be refunded;
- the balance still owing is cleared and the car is transferred into your name.
One Ombudsman decision in this situation is:
As I don’t think the finance should’ve been approved, I’ve thought about how to put Mr H back in the position he would’ve been in if this hadn’t happened. So I think that Moneybarn should cancel the agreement. But, because Mr H had already paid Moneybarn more than the original amount of the finance, he should be allowed to keep the car. So, Moneybarn should… refund everything Mr H has paid above the original finance amount of £5,590.
Here is another one:
1st Stop Finance [Oplo] have said that Mr D has already paid more than the cash price of the car and Mr D still has the car and has continued to make the payments under the agreement. If that’s the case, I think it’s fair to allow 1st Stop to retain the payments up to the cash value of £13,899 in respect of the fair use Mr D has had from the car. Mr D should be allowed to keep the vehicle and anything he’s paid beyond the cash value should be returned to him.
D) Car finance still running & you have paid LESS than the amount borrowed
This tends to happen early in a car finance agreement. There haven’t been many FOS decisions in this type of case because often the borrower is unable to keep paying so the car has already been VTed, handed back or repossessed.
The typical redress decision is that:
- the lender should take back the car;
- any remaining balance you owe should be cleared;
- you should have a refund of your deposit plus the payments you have made less what a fair usage charge per month would be.
So FOS is making the same decision it would have made if the borrower had voluntarily terminated the car, see (B) above which looks at what this fair usage charge is. Here is one example:
I instruct Oodle Financial Services to put things right by doing the following: · Cancel the agreement with nothing further to pay · Collect the car at a time and date suitable for Mr T at no cost · Reimburse Mr T all repayments made towards the agreement along with any interest, fees or charges. Oodle can retain from this amount £250 a month prorated from when Mr T took the agreement to 8 December 2019.
NB I haven’t seen a case where the borrower was close to having repaid the price of the car, so I don’t know what FOS would decide in a marginal situation. I would argue for the borrower being allowed to make a few more payments and retain the car.
Only (D) is likely to be a problem for borrowers
Cases A, B and C are straightforward. The redress you get from winning these cases will normally considerably improve your situation.
But if you are currently in case D – you haven’t yet repaid what you borrowed – you may have hoped to be able to keep the car and only pay the remainder of the purchase price at an affordable rate. I haven’t yet seen a FOS decision where that is the result.
If you are in this situation now and you really need to keep the car, decide if it’s possible to delay a complaint. This would involve carrying on making the payments until you fall into the case (C) situation.
Ideally you would delay until you have repaid the amount borrowed and are clearly in case C. But it will take several months for a FOS decision to go through, so you could plan on making an affordabilty complaint several months before that point.
Read Can you manage your current car finance payments? which looks at your options. If none of these will work, you may have no better alternative to VTing the car now and making an affordability complaint at the same time.
Inflation – can you cut your IVA payments ?
Is your energy DD not just high but wrong?
Can you really offer just £1 to a debt?
philip says
can i claim my payments back,,, im currently paying off a ccj for a car i was missold finnance for
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It sounds as though you fall into (B) in the article above? You handed the car back or it was repossessed?
In this case if your claim is upheld you would get back a refund of your deposit plus all the payments you have made LESS a charge for “fair usage” for the time you had the car.
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/unaffordable-car-finance/ which looks at whether the finance was unaffordable and then https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ which has details of how to complain with a template to use.
philip says
Yes they came and picked the car up,,,so can i get any money back or atleast write off the 900 ish pounds im still to pay off, with bw legal, im currently paying off £2 a month by order of a ccj, but i tend to pay £5 per month,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If your claim is upheld, then the balance would probably be written off and you would probably get some cash refund.
You may well have to send the complaint to the ombudsman – many car finance lenders are rejecting even very good claims.
When did the car finance start?
philip says
it was years ago cant think exactly off the top of my head,,,,ive just been paying the agreed ccj off for years and wasnt aware i could claim money back untill i came across debt camel,,, can i give the onbordsman my ccj details and can they chase it up, or even yourselves
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what date was the CCJ? how long did you have the car for before it was repossessed? and then how long until you got the CCJ?
I’m asking because if the car finance started a long time ago, you may have difficulty proving that it was unaffordable at the start. Would you still have your bank statements say?
philip says
no they picked the car up years ago,, then i got a ccj saying i had to pay bw legal £2 per month for years untill the debt was paid off,, ive recently started paying £5 per month to try and clear it faster,,, untill i came across debt camel and was made aware i could possibly get some money back or at least clear the outstanding £900
i had the car for about 3 years before they came for it,,,, the ccj is dated 1/4/2015
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so it sounds as though the car finance may have started in 2011 or earlier.
Theoretically you can win a claim about finance starting fro April 2007, but in practice the lender may not have any records any more and unless you have details of your financial situation at the time the finance was given – this is normally bank statements – it may be very hard to make any progress with a complaint.
Obviously it would have been unaffordable at the time the car was repossessed – but an affordability complaint is a test on whether it was affordable at the time you took the finance.
philip says
ok thanks anyway,,, it was worth a try
Zig says
Still owe £601 on the car (I still have it) the balance which is late. If I send a complaint, will they come after me – seize the car?
Should I wait until I clear the balance?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you still making payments? or have they just forgotten you?
have you been sent a Default Notice by the lender?
how large are the monthly payments and can you afford them?
Zig says
Hi yes – have a default and now with debt collector.
As there is only £601 left to pay out of the £8k, I guess they have just decided to sell the debt.
I have filed a complaint and looking to pay off the £601 monthly.
It’s been 5 weeks, so guess hopefully by end of month see what they say.
Chris says
I took out car finance in Nov 2016. I had really bad credit and lots of payday loans at the time I took out the car finance (about £8000 worth) which I was behind on payments for (I entered an IVA in Dec 2016 as I just couldn’t keep up. The car finance was left off my IVA). I had just had my first child and was in desperate need for a car but with the debt I had there was no way of me buying one outright. I thought I would take a chance on car finance but was 99% certain I would be rejected. To my surprise I was approved and ended up borrowing £6200 over 5 years. Over the term I had to pay back £9673. I knew the interest was a lot but as I mentioned I was desperate. Over the term I missed about 20-25 payments and was charged additional money each time. I needed the car and because of the IVA I had no chance of getting another car so I ended up borrowing money off parents etc to make payments and ensure they didn’t take the car from me.
I have now finally paid off the car but having to pay the monthly amounts plus the interest and added charges meant I really struggled. Do I have a case for being miss sold in this instance?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it sounds like it. Get the complaint in asap – the older these complaints get the less evidence there is.
Chris says
Do I need to get any information to strengthen the claim? I’m not sure if Its possible or how to get a credit report from when I took out the loan. I can only go back to Nov 17 on clear score. My bank statements only date back to Nov 16 also because I opened a new bank account at the end of November as my other bank account at the time was taking a chunk of my money in overdraft fees etc and I needed that money.
Chris says
So motonovo have come back and said they reject my claim and they said they deemed it affordable at the time. I mentioned the payday loans and they said they did show up but on the credit check but it was still coming back as affordable. Should I go to ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes if the repayments caused you problems. You are the one that knows if it was unaffordable & payday loans suggest you were already in big trouble.
Motonovo are hoping you will give up.
Chris says
I have raised this case to FOS now so will see what comes of it. Thanks
Lenny says
Following your advise, I have had a final response from the ombudsman, which Moto novo finance agreed with.
They are to repay anything I have paid over the value of the car at purchase price, refund any interest paid, plus 8% interest.
Allowed to keep the car, with ownership declared, any bad credit marks against me to be removed.
Thank you very much for your advise and the people who share, so we can all gain.
Sukey says
Hello
I logged an affordability complaint with Santander Consumer Finance by email and I just received a voicemail from them saying they will be calling again tomorrow to talk about this. I’m at work at the moment so couldn’t answer but can I just check whether they should be putting this in writing rather than having a phone call with me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I always suggest talking to the lender, but if you aren’t clear what they are saying or they appear to be trying to convince you to drop the complaint or settle for a low goodwill offer, ask them to put it in writing so you have time to think about this.
Don’t be bounced into accepting a small amount. Don’t let them convince you you don’t have a good case.
Come back here unless you are very sure what to do!
Sukey says
Thanks Sara! I will let you know what they say.
Angela says
I’m considering making an affordability complaint for car finance. I took out a loan via Zuto for £10,000 in Aug 2018. I paid approx 14 payments of £286 and had to voluntary surrender the car in Jan 2020. What exactly do I ask for when making the complaint to Zuto? Can I ask them for a refund of my deposit £4000 back as well as any payments and interest that I’ve made minus any fair use charges? Or is that only for FOS to decide?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You still owe a balance? Hove you made any payments to it?
Craig says
Hi. I took finance out with moneybarn back in 2015. I have paid this back in full. Could get finance anywhere so had to use these. I felt it was expensive but didnt have much of a choice as i needed a car. I am considering making a complaint because i was paying car payments but missed paying other bills some months. Am i within the time frame to make an affordability complaint and what would my chances of success be?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you can complain about finance that was given more than 6 years ago but expect Moneybarn to reject this and send it to the Ombudsman for a decision.
Your chance of success will be higher if you have evidence about your situation in 2015, eg bank statements.
Craig says
Thanks for the reply Sara. Is there any letter templates that i can download to start my complaint. Have all statements etc from back then.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, see the Important car finance articles section in the article above.
Heidi says
Hi Craig, did you succeed in this claim? I have a similar issue but took my loan out in 2014. Finished paying in 2020 after arrears extended the term but only saw an article about affordability checks in February 2023. Moneybarn have already rejected my claim and I have sent this to the Financial Ombudsman. The only things that were checked on my application were my payslips. No income or expenditure done until I was in arrears and no bank statements checked in the application.
Heidi says
Hi Sara, the investigator at the ombudsman has rejected my claim on the basis that any checks that Moneybarn should have done would have shown I could afford the loan.i have appealed as his calculations were based on what my bank statements showed and did not show what was not being paid. However there were also flags of payday loans on my bank statement which the investigation did not take into account. Do you think my appeal to the ombudsman would be upheld? I was in severe financial difficulties as my partner had a gambling habit so I had to pay for everything. However the investigating officer only considered my costs as a proportion without accepting I was the sole person supporting my family. His argument is that I didn’t declare I had any dependents however Moneybarn did not ask about anything at the application stage
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what was not being paid? were these essentials like utilities, rent and council tax that Moneybarn should have spotted were missing?
yes using payday loans should have been a warning that you were already in difficulty
“His argument is that I didn’t declare I had any dependents however Moneybarn did not ask about anything at the application stage”
that is a very good point to make – why didn’t Moneybarn ask?
Heidi says
He said there was a £25000 debt on my credit file however it was indicated that this was being paid. This was in fact a secured debt that I was in arrears on and when the investigator did his own calculations from my bank statements, this was not being paid. So he did not have all my costs
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Definitely send this to the Ombudsman. Reply to the adjudicator saying that you don’t agree with his decision, make the point about Moneybarn never asking you about dependents and Money barn should not have assumed you didn’t have any, and your points about the secured loan arrears and it not being included in the adjudicator calculations. Ask for these points to be passed to the Ombudsman if the adjudicator doesn’t change their mind.
Heidi says
So the ombudsman has sent a provisional decision upholding my complaint. She has given Moneybarn until the 27th November 23 to respond. It was upheld on the facts that Moneybarn did not do any affordability checks before the loan. If the final decision is the same, is this legally binding on Moneybarn and how long so they normally take to pay out? I want my credit file rectified as I am currently trying to get another mortgage and the adverse impact meant I was being rejected for the best rates.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Very pleased to hear this.
A Final Decision from an Ombudsman is legally binding.
Moneybarn should pay out in 28 days but it may take longer for your credit record to be cleaned as that depends when Moneybarn next send an update to the Credit Reference Agencies.
Moneybarn has had a backlog and several people have reported getting paid taking longer than 28 days… I am hoping the backlog is unwinding and things should speed up.
Who is your mortgage lender and has your fix already ended?
John says
Hi there, I took a car finance out with oodle In 2019 how I got accepted I don’t know my credit rating was around 180 and I was heavily gambling and using payday loans
The loan was for around £8000 over 5 years. At the end of the agreement I will of paid £16000 back double the price of the car my monthly payments are £340.
I have paid half off £8000 and I just can’t afford it anymore. But I feel they shouldn’t of give me that finance given my current situation.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What are the rest of your finances like – do you have other debts? Are you still gambling?
Job says
Terrible am trying to get back on track but it’s impossible at the moment, and yes I have been gambling lately. And yes I have credit cards debts, loan debts, payday loan debts all from years ago. I am trying to address all these now so I can start a clean slate.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the car essential? I am sure it is a big convenience but could you manage without it?
Because if you make a complaint about affordability now – which you may well win – you aren’t close to having repaid the 8k you borrowed so it is VERY likely you would have to hand the car back and get a cash refund as the article above explains.
Could you afford the car repayments if you pay nothing to your other debts? Car finance is a priority debt, your credit cards, loans etc will understand if you just offer them a token £1 a month payment. And you could also pursue affordability claims against man6 of those probably….I think you should talk to a debt adviser about your options. Phone National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 and explain you want to make an affordability complaint about the car but you can’t do this yet.
But until you stop gambling nothing is going to sort out your finances. Can you get help with this?
John says
I paid a cash deposit of 700 so this takes me over £8000, I have decided am going to make a complaint will let you know how I get on.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ah sorry – when you said “I have paid half off £8000” – I though you meant you have paid half of the £8000 off.
If you meant you have paid £8000 which is half of the total £16000 then yes, you can now safely make the claim. Good luck!
John says
Hi Sarah just thought I would give you a update. Oodle have upheld my complaint without having to go to the ombudsman, all resolved in one month! I have had all interest wiped to 0% and the car is mine to keep so good result. 8000 wiped. Thanks for your brilliant advice. They also wiped off £700 which I still owed due to my circumstances so excellent result.
Mr c says
This was my response from fos today Sarah is there anything i can say
I can see that during the application process Stour Vale Finance Company Limited have shown they conducted a credit check, saw your payslips, your joint bank statements, and completed an income and expenditure. I think this ought to have made it clear the business was required to check you could afford the agreement. I can see that you repaid the agreement in full in April 2015. I therefore think you ought to have realised at the time of sale the agreement was unaffordable to you given the level of checks completed and that Stour Vale Finance Company Limited may have been at least partly responsible.
This means that you had three years from 24 August 2012 to raise your complaint or six years from 24 August 2012, whichever gives you longer. As you didn’t raise it until 6 February 2022, it was after both of these timescales and has therefore been brought too late.
We can look at a late complaint if exceptional circumstances were responsible for this. So if there’s anything that might’ve stopped you complaining in time and you want me to consider this, please let me know.
Next steps
If you decide that you don’t accept what I’ve said, then please let me know by 15 December 2022. If I can’t resolve things then an ombudsman here can look at everything again and make a decision. If I don’t hear from you by that date we might not be able to look at your complaint again.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what would the finance co have seen from your bank statements etc?
Katie says
I had finance with Money barn starting in June 2019, all payments made upto April 2020 when covid struck and I asked for a payment holiday. Anyway I had 6 months of payment holidays then made payments as usual, moneybarn classed them as arrears and added extra onto monthly payments.They threatened to repossess and get a CCJ. They pressured me into a consent order paying additional fees even though i offered to pay any arrears. Saying this was the only way to keep the vehicle.
Then stated due to conflicting information from their team I had missed a payment and stated I owed the full amount us charges. I couldn’t afford this so they repossessed the vehicle. I have so much proof of all this as all done via email.
They sold the vehicle and I’m still paying off £5K on the account despite not giving a vehicle.
Do I have a case against them?
When they repossessed I had paid just under half the finance back but they wouldn’t let me return the vehicle as they stated my contract wasn’t valid due to the consent order, instead they repossessed it and sold it for a third of what I paid for it.
Throughout covid they marked every payment as unpaid absolutely destroying my credit file.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Before covid, were the payments affordable? Or were you having to borrow more each money because of paying Moneybarn?
Katie says
I was making payments however I also had a car on finance at the same time as the van. The payments were high. The payments were increased by £70 per month by Moneybarn after covid with no income/expenditure checks.
At the start of the contract I was already paying out £250 per month for a car, I then took out finance on a van via Car Finance 24/7 using Moneybarn for my husband to use . The payments totalled more than half ny monthly wage. Due to this I failed to pay Council Tax and Gas/Electric. I’m still paying off arrears on both totaling to over £2.5k.
At the time I also had an attachment of earnings coming from my wage for previous debts. I have ignored other bills apart from rent as I didn’t want to lose either vehicle. It then got worse when the payments increased.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
then it sounds as though you may have a simple affordability complaint against Moneybarn. Your would fall into section (B) in the article above as the van was repossessed. I suggest you make that complaint using the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
You can add onto the end of that template that you also want to complaint about the way you were treated by Moneybarn as you have detailed. But make it clear that is a seperate complaint.
And realistically if you win the affordability complaint then that is probably a very good result for you?
Jane says
Dear Sara
I have had a reply from FOS adjudicator assigned to my case saying my case is outside of the time frame, the loan was in 2013 and I didn’t complain until last year as I did not realise that I could. I am going to go back to say I don’t agree with his assessments and provide more evidence as I have bank statements showing payments to debt collection companies and several pay day and provident loans all ar the same time as applying for a car loan with Moneybarn and afterwards too. The adjudicator doesn’t appear to accept that I didn’t know I could make a complaint against Moneybarn until last year even though I have provided my reasons. I can back this up further but I am interested to know if others have won their claim beyond the 6 year mark and what further information they supplied to FOS.
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Evidence about how strong your claim is won’t help you get over this first hurdle which is FOS deciding if it can look at this complaint. But it’s good that you have it, as sometimes these old complaints just fail as there is o little eveidence.
You can point out to FOS that you first found out about affordability complaints in March 2020 when you saw an advert (or article or whatever) and made a complaint to Provident. So you are complaining within 3 years of finding out a lender has a regulatory duty to assess affordability.
Jane Guvenir says
Thank you Sara that is very helpful
Chloe says
This is really interesting, thank you. I got into quite a lot of credit card debt when I had my car finance, paying for simply every day living, such as food and fuel for getting to work. The cost of the car was more than 65% of my annual salary at the time.
The car finance was paid off 5 years ago now, I still have the car.
Only thing, the loan was “0% finance”. However, in reality the new car was over inflated in the price I paid. Big lesson learnt. Is it unlikely I would be able to make a claim?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have not seen a case where FOS has awarded a refund based on the car being overpriced.
Simon says
I have a car loan with Advantage Finance which I believe was unaffordable due to my poor credit and other factors. The car was £6300 and I have paid off £7300 with another £6500 left to pay. I have missed lots of payments (but managed to mostly catch up) and been issued with some defaults on this loan.
If I do an affordability complaint with them, are they likely to take the car back?
Also does anyone have any experience with dealing with Advantage Finance?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As you have already paid more than you borrowed, if you win the complaint at the Ombudsman the usual redress is that you keep the car, the balance is cleared and you would get a small refund of the amount you have paid so far that is more than you borrowed.
Their name has been mentioned a few times in the last few months but those complaints are at the early stages, I think you should assume that they may reject a good complaint and send this to the ombudsman if this happenes.
Simon says
Hi Sara
Thank you for the information. Is there any chance they will take the car off me?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The lender should not be able to do that if you are up to date with payments. NB You have to keep paying this while the complaint goes through, at the lender and then at the ombudsman.
In all the decisions I have seen FOS only says the car has to be handed back if the borrower has paid less than the amount borrowed. You have paid more. A different decision from FOS would be very unusual.
Simon says
I am behind with some payments but I am paying extra each week to catch up. Could this result in them taking the car if I complain?
Simon says
About £250
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large are the arrears at the moment?
How much extra are you paying a week? Do you have other debts that you are paying?
Simon says
About £250
i am paying around £12 extra per week. I do have a couple of other debts I am paying too
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should clear these arrears before making a complaint. Even if this means paying less to your other unsecured debts. Talk to National Debtline on 0808 808 4000 if you are unsure what your options are or the pros and cons.
Heidi says
Can I still complain to Moneybarn if my loan was arranged by a credit solutions agent?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes – it doesn’t matter who the broker was. Moneybarn gave the credit and they should have made adequate checks that you could afford it.
Are you still paying this finance?
Heidi says
No. I finished paying this in 2020 but with a lot of difficulties, arrears and having to suffer in other areas. They also put late payment fees onto the balance which I cleared over a longer period
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, good luck!
Greg says
Hi Sara.
I been informed that the claim against Motonovo has been sucessful and now just awaiting their response of the decision.
The problem lies with my situation..I fall into category D.
I can’t do without the car for multiple reasons. Work, kids school, isolated aging parent etc…
The letter states I’m entitled a fair usage rebate. This is only £18/m over 41 months and the trade in/deposit amount (1380) plus 8%.
So handing the car would land me a refund somewhere around £2300.
The settlement figure is close to £8k so out of reach, however C where the loan amount has been repaid, is about £3k away and possible.
Would be fos be willing to change the ruling if the balance was paid that moved me into from D to C category.
My final thought was to sell the car has it has probably £1500 profit over the settlement. If the settlement was met, then an interest refund of around £3300 would be due?
I think I’ve read that some options also refund the deposit? Is this only applicable to D to supplement the fair usage refund?
I’m just hoping to do one of these options above as D seems the worst possible scenario.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you pay the 3k? How much are you paying a month at the moment?
Is this an adjudicator decision?
Grey says
418 per month. They deemed £400 as fair usage. This puts me in a very bad situation.
I can pay the balance to the actual loan amount today. I don’t want to pay then find out the situation D can’t be changed to C.
Thank you for your help on this 👍
Sorry. I’m not sure. The fos contact is described as investigator.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
£400 is a very high fair usage amount – are you doing a lot of mileage?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you copy in here what the investigator said about how that was set?
Greg says
The car has high miles now but i thought the fair usage value would be close to the monthly if interest wasn’t included. This seems to favour motonovo as they’re getting an asset potentially worth 10k and paying me little over 2k. It’s as if they’re getting a settlement amount in the form of the car and therefore the full interest. I’m only getting the equity in the car for all the hard work trying to repay this mammoth amount.
I can’t copy/paste the letter but it states the fair monthly amount was decided by looking at the vehicles useage and miles. Yes… working my socks off trying to keep the repayments on time.
I need to get out from D to any of the others. Even sell it.
I would have thought that the last thing motonovo want is the car back that would most likely be put through an auction with no guarantee of returns.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should ask if you can get a family member to pay the 3k if you can keep the car.
If the investigator (that is another name for an adjuidcator) says No, then ask for this to go to an Ombudsman as you do not this that is fair and you do not hing £400 a month fair usage is either.
Greg says
I agree with you.
If it goes to the ombudsman who will look at the situation at that point and I’ve already paid the value of the loan, surely his findings must be based on that moment in time to determine the settlement.
The fair usage is irrelevant if I can get ride of this D scenario. I put my situation in writing over the weekend.
If I end up with D I don’t want to pay the installment at the end of the month.
Thanks again..
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you won’t get an Ombudsman decision by the end of this month.
Are you in arrears at the moment?
Greg says
No. Only the 3 payments that were allowed under covid. It seems like almost 4 payments now with the mounting interest they’ve added.
I understand that the turnaround time for an Ombudsman could potentially be months.
Greg says
Thanks again Sara.
After writing to the Fos about the fair usage and not willing to accept that arrangement, (I was prepared to go to the Ombudsman) he put the proposal to motonovo of me paying the balance upto the initial loan amount. He called today to say they’ve accepted the offer of the remaining balance and will remove the £5k interest and transfer ownership.
The adjudicator has been excellent 👌
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that’s very good news
John Duddigan says
Hi Sara
Bit of advise please.
As you know I have a Affordability Complaint with FOS ref Startline Motor Finance
The FOS Investigator has come back with following
As you pay your Rent in Cash there is no evidence that majority of your income was spent on Rent as it didn’t appear as Rent on my Bank Statements I supplied her.
I was a Lodger rather than Tenant. Didn’t have a contract and Paid in Cash as requested by Landlady.
What can I do ref this as she has not upheld my complaint because of this
At the time I took the Finance with Startline Motor Finance I took home £1300.
£600 was for Rent which includes Council Tax and Energy. £250 was for food which left £450 for everything else including the £241.96 to Startline Motor Finance
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did you take the £600 out in cash at the same time each month? Is that a reasonable rate for a room in your area?
John Duddigan says
I took the cash out over the course of the month ready to handover to Landlady. So didn’t take it out on a particular time each month.
Sometimes I would take funds from another account
Yes £600 is a fair price in my area
Also Sara when I did Affordability Complaint against Moneybarn and won I was living at same address and paying Rent the same way in Cash. No questions were asked by FOS to prove my Rent Payment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to your adjudicator and say that £600 is a fair rent for your area including bills.
Do you know what Startline allowed for rent and bills?
John Duddigan says
Hi Sara
I will go back to Investigator at FOS saying £600 a month is a fair rent in my area.
I have checked SAR Report and Agreement from Startline and can see no mention of any figures .
I also checked paperwork from TrustFord and notice they had me having £800 disposable income after All bills are taken out which in fact is incorrect. £800 was the total paid out on Bills not what was left once bills have been paid.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can also point out to FOS that where this is no evidence to confirm something, FOS have to make a decision “on the balance of probability”.
And point out the error in TrustFord paperwork as Startline may have made the same mistake.
aden says
I think I have grounds for a compalint with moneybarn for not doing affordable checks. However my agreement is a conditional sale. Is this type of agreement still within the scope of making a complaint.
Can moneybarn resort to taking the car from you instead of looking at the complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
From the point of view of an affordability complaint, there is no difference.
How much did you borrow at the start? (not including interest.)
How much in total have you paid so far in monthly payments?
aden says
Hi
The vehicle price was £11 500. Total amount payable including interest is £17119. I have paid £13514 so far in monthly payments
Sara (Debt Camel) says
in that case if you win your case with Moneybarn direct or through the Financial Ombudsman, you should be able to keep the car and get a refund of the excess money over what you borrowed.
BUT you have to keep making the monthly payments while the complaint goes through. If you do keep paying, MB has no reason to take your cake.
Ruth says
Has any made a complaint to 247money car finance?
Mark says
I took out car finance in late 2016 with moneybarn, and finished paying in early 2020. Can i still push ahead with the missold claim. I didnt realise it had been missold until the last year or so.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you can. Expect MB to reject this and send it to the Ombudsman. It will help a lot if you have your bank statements from the 3 months before and 3 months after the finance application so get hold of thoise now.
Mark Wilson says
Thank you i will do that. They sent me a “final response” in December 2022 saying i missed the time frame and they wont give the ombudsman permission to look at it. I was only a few months out of the time frame. Also, they denied any wrongdoing.
Can the ombudsman do anything if they will refuse them permission to look at it? Do i have to state that I only realised i was missold within the last three years?
I had lots of payday loans at that time due to a gambling habit, which had gladly been sorted.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if a firm says that FOS can look at something. then FOS will, without considering whether it is time barred.
If a firm says they will not give FOS permission, then FOS will assess whether they should look at your case using the rules.
Mark Wilson says
Is there a template letter to the ombudsman about this i can download? I have all my bank statements from thst period.
Also want to say thsnks very much for your help sara.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes it’s in https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
Daniel says
Hi just a quick one . So I took out a loan with money barn a few years back couldn’t afford repayments so I gave it back . They then sent a letter after a few months say they should not of approved finance and account is cleared . I needed a car a couple years later and I am know on the same position after getting approved aging . There was no bank statement checks if this was carried out they would of seen my gambling problem . I am currently getting test of bipolar and that would explain a lot of my impulse buys and hopefully the gambling . Do you think I have a case . Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what date was this second car finance approved?
M says
Hi Sara,
I have previously used this site when i put my claim in to wonga for various unaffordable loans. I purchased a car in Jan 2019 whilst I had loans totalling approximately £5000, an overdraft of £4500 and CC debt of approximately £2.5k. I bought the car for 12.5k with an interest rate of 19.9% making the monthly payments £250 approx for 5 years. I have never missed a payment but had to get a second job to keep up payments.
Do you think I have a case to put in an unaffordability claim? Thank you for any help you can provide.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think if you couldn’t afford the payments without getting a second job, then the finance was unaffordable – send them a complaint.
Also your overdraft – how many of days of the month were you overdrawn? How long did this go on for? because you may be able to make a complaint about that too – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/
Angela Kay says
Hi Sara
I made an car finance affordability complaint to PCF Bank which was declined so I have referred to Ombudsman. I was self employed at the time but no checks were done to prove my income. I supplied 3 months of bank statements which showed a large amount of cash deposits so my income averaged 8k per month. The adjudicator from Ombudsman has classed these deposits as income as it was used to pay essential bills. I voluntary surrendered the car and am now in a debt arrangement scheme.
At the time when I applied for finance in 2018 I owed in excess of 300k inc my mortgage and applied for a personal loan which was declined before I went with broker Zuto for high interest finance with PCF.
Can they assume cash deposits are income?
Is there any point in asking an Ombudsman to look at it or cut my losses?
Has anyone else been in a similar situation?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Where did the cash deposits come from?
Angela Kay says
The cash came from my business account. My invoices got paid sporadically so the bank statements provided wasn’t a true reflection of my earnings each month. I did confirm my annual income from prev year SA302 but this wasn’t checked.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this was income, but that was an unusually good few months?
Was the income you put on you application lower?
Angela Kay says
Exactly! The income that I declared on the application was based on my previous years SA302 which was lower.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was there a large difference? and would the car have been affordable at that lower income amount?
Angela Kay says
I would say a fairly large difference- 3k less so borderline affordable after all my bills were paid. It wouldn’t have left much surplus for anything unexpected. Although there was a lot of cash deposited in those 3 months, it was all being spent and at the start and end of each month I was using 100% of my overdraft (£600).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case I think you should send this to the Ombudsman. Your application was accurate. And if they had looked at the statements they would have seen that you were deep in your overdraft despite a higher than normal income.
Angela Kay says
Hi Sara, just a quick update on my case. The Ombudsman has reviewed my car finance unaffordable lending complaint and has made a provisional decision to uphold which is great news. They have calculated a fair usage rate for the time I had the car which is more per month than the payments I was making. Car was 14k, I made a 4k deposit and borrowed 10k. The finance repayments were £286 per month. I made 18 payments before voluntary surrendering the car. The Ombudsman has calculated a fair use cost of £290 per month. Can I challenge this? Other threads regarding this suggest the fair usage charge is much less than the monthly loan payments.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask FOS why the fair usage charge is so high, as your monthly payments would have included an interest element.
Angela Kay says
Hi Sara, this is the reply I got from the Ombudsman re my query for the fair usage charge being higher than my monthly payments.
“I’ll try to explain: As well as the £286.84 per month, you paid a deposit of £4,000. If you average that out over the 48-month term it effectively works out as an extra £83 per month – so on average you paid £370 per month. The £290 per month fair usage charge is £80 less per month when you factor that in.
We typically look at the cash price of the car when thinking about fair usage – and in this instance the cash price was £14,000. A lot of the time with similar complaints, deposits are very small or non-existent and the cash price is very similar to the loan amount. In those instances, the fair usage charge is often much less than the monthly repayment – that’s why what you’ve seen on our website differs from your complaint.”
Will I just have to accept this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Interesting. I haven’t seen that before and the logic does make sense. As the Ombudsman says, large deposits are rare in high cost lending cases.
Overall this seems a very good result in a non standard case? Especially as you had to push it to the Ombudsman. (I assume the deposit is being refunded, any balance owed cleared and your credit record cleaned.)
Angela Kay says
Thanks Sara, I appreciate your help with this. I’ll let you know how I get on.
Nes says
Hi Sara,
I have claimed back on unaffordable credit cards from NewDay using your site. The same with multiple payday lenders and high interest loans. Bizarrely i’ve only just come across the car finance section.
I purchased a HP car using SMF, I was juggling payments and borrowing more and more. This wasn’t just because of the SMF car payments but all my other credit commitments. I was paying around £515 a month towards my HP. My salary at the time was on average £2150 a month. It took a large amount of my salary and caused me to borrow more. I think i have a case, but just wanted your opinion if i should raise this with SMF?
Thanks
Nes
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Has this car finance been repaid? When was it taken out?
Nes says
Hi Sara,
I ended up refinancing but i paid SMF for just under 3 years before i was able to refinance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s good, so the car cannot be at risk if you complain.
If it caused you to borrow more, then definitely complain
Nes says
Thanks Sara, it certainly caused me to borrow more and i have some missed payments which resulted in charges.
I have raised a complaint with SMF.
I don’t know if you know what SMF are like to deal with?
If anyone on this site has had any experience in dealing with Specialist Motor Finance please do share how things went.
Mike F says
Morning Sarah
I woke up this morning to a nice email this morning from
The investigator saying they are upholding my claim against Moneybarn , Obvously they have the right to appeal would you happen to know if Moneybarn apeal a lot ? They have given them until July 6th to do this so would you happen to know how long in these cases do they normally get resolved / payed out ? Also thank you for your help with this case it really is appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is good – I think Moneybarn accept a lot of decisions, but not all. Fingers crossed this is sorted out soon.
Nes says
Hi Sara,
I logged my complaint last week with SMF, however I have had no email back from them acknowledging it. Do you think I should chase this up?
Thanks
Nes
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would wait another week and ask them then.
Michael F says
Morning All
Good news today Moneybarn have agreed with the investigator and have upheld my claim
Does anyone know how long the average waiting time is now for Moneybarn to payout ?
Do they have a time they need to pay out by ?
Any info would be appreciated
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Excellent, so that should be the balance cleared and a refund of about 10K?
They should settle within 28 days.
Make sure the credit record is corrected to show settled after a couple of months.
Michael F says
Hi Sarah
Thanks for the reply
Balance was already cleared and they settle my account a year early too so I have paid 48 x £323 plus £500 deposit with a total of £16004 car was £8995 so should be looking at around £7000 refund plus 8% interest
Fingers crossed they sort it in 28 days
William says
Mine was settled in 4 weeks
Fernanda says
Hi,
I’m after some advice. I financed a car with money barn back in 2017 for a cash price of £16336, however after 12 months of making £475 repayments and taking out numerous payday loan I could no longer afford to keep the car and handed it back to Moneybarn. They still said I had over 6k worth of interest to pay even tho the car was handed back in a very good condition.
I went into a debt management plan with Stepchange and have been paying the 6k for the last 3 years. I recently found out I could make a claim towards money barn as this was just unaffordable. Moneybarn has rejected the claim. So is it worth me taking this to FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, send this to FOS immediately.
Have you also looked at affordability complaints about other debts that went into your DMP?
Fernanda says
Thank you very much. I will get that sorted. Just wasn’t sure if I had a claim with money barn or not
and yes I have looked into the other affordability and won my claims.
Steve says
Hi Sara, if a complaint was ruled in my favour, are you aware what the redress make-up would look like on the following? Monthly payments £606/original finance amount £18,742. Paid to date Jul 2023 X25 payments so £15,150. Car is worth approx £18,500 on a very quick sale (we buy any car for example). So equity in the car currently of around 9k. Had an up to datesettlement figure of £9300.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you made a complaint? Do you want to keep the car? What is the interest rate and what deposit did you pay?
Steve says
Hi Sara, yes- want to keep car. Original amount borrowed £18,740.72. Total payable £25,487.20 (includes £10 purchase option fee). Interest rate (per Annum fixed) 18.2% and APR 19.8%. Zero deposit paid. Have made a complaint which adjudicator is close to coming to a decision on. Yesterday they (FOS Adjudicator) asked for the current mileage on the car supported by a picture of the pedometer. Many thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It is a pity you did not delay your complaint until you had repaid more. The standard FOS decision here where you have not repaid the amount borrowed (which will take about another 6 months) is that you should hand back the car and get a “fair value” refund of an amount per month.
There are very few cases in your position where they are so close to repaying the amount borrowed. Possibly because I discourage people who want to keep the car from getting themselves into this situation.
I think here FOS should allow you to make the remaining payments for the next 6 months and then the balance should be wiped. I have no idea if FOS will agree to that.
If your adjudicator suggests redress you do not like, come back here. You can argue to get the adjudicator to change their mind. And you can ask for it to go to an Ombudsman.
Steve says
Adjudicator got in touch yesterday asking how I’d like the Company to put things right in terms of keeping the car or returning. Fingers crossed they feel the same as you. I stated I needed the car for work. Not seen his decision yet but will keep posted.
Steve says
Adjudicator ruled in my favour at this stage, hopefully lender accepts decision so doesn’t go to Ombudsman. Ruled to pay off the rest of balance only and keep vehicle.
Dan says
Hi Sara, I’m currently going thru a complaint with Motonovo. I complained to them and they acknowledged on the same day (15th June). They requested a copy of some payslips some of which I no longer have access to due to changing job and no longer having access to them, and they were informed of this. I have received another email today requesting the same documents and if they didn’t receive by 11th august they will do the investigation without them. Based on my calculation the 8week cut off is the 10th August. Should I respond saying the documents are unavailable again or ignore the email and wait for the 8weeks and report to the ombudsman?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do you have bank statements for the period?
Dan says
Hi Sara, I don’t believe I have them anymore. They were also never requested during the finance application process. Based on the email I received today their investigation would not start until on/after 11th which is later than 8 weeks. On that basis after the 8 weeks I can go direct to the ombudsman correct?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago did you take out this finance?
Dan says
Finance was taken out in 2018 and completed this year. The deposit was paid by credit card which still has never been fully paid off and outstanding balance increased, and since taking the finance I had taken out multiple payday loans to support day to day living, which for 90% of them I have already received compensation as unaffordable loans.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You should be able to get bank statements going back to 2018 even from a closed account You want three months before the application and 3 months afterwards. You will need them at the Ombudsman if Motonovo reject your complaint start getting them now,
I suggest you reply saying you have already told them on dd/mm you do not have the payslips and will be sending the complete the Ombudsman if you do not get a response by 11th August.
Dan says
Hi Sarah, from your experience on these forums what would be the average time the ombudsman picks up the case? over the space of a month I submitted the Motonovo complaint and 2 other individual complaints to them, all of them I got an email within a week of each saying they will be looking into my complaint. Yesterday I received an email from a case handler that they were looking into one of the complaints, this was the most recent complaint I had submitted and the first 2 still I have not had any contact with a case handler. Is this normal?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Quite normal. FOS won’t start work on a case until the lender has supplied their case file – some lenders do this much more quickly than others. Most complaints are picked up in under 4 months.
Dan says
Hi again Sara, thanks to your website and information provided by you, the adjudicator has sided with me for my complaint against Motonovo and also a separate complaint against 118118 for a loan. Originally they rejected the complaint with 118118 as they had not considered my cash payments for rent as I was living with family but still paying for my upkeep. I explained this to the adjudicator and provided 5 years of statements to back up this consistent cash withdrawal which changed their outcome. Now I am just waiting for the company’s to respond. Thank you again!
aden says
Hi
I have had a letter from moneybarn to say that we have been unable to deal with your complaint within the 56 days. I am now entitled to go to the ombudsman.
How do i go about going to the ombudsman
Sara (Debt Camel) says
see the “Send to Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS)” in this article https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
William says
Do moneybarn have to repay interest plus 8%? I have just won a case against them and they have settled but the interest figure (8%) seems very low considering I was paying about £1000 each year in interest alone and am 4 years into my agreement. It roughly calculates to them paying me £175 in simple interest.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was there a balance owed that was cleared with the refund, if so how large?
Or if the finance was already ended, how long ago?
How large were your monthly payments?
William says
Hi Sara,
The cash price of the vehicle was £7800 and the total price including interest over the 5 year term was £14121.65. I had already paid £11728.15 and had £2393.50 remaining. My monthly payments were £239.35. Over the course of 2022-2023 from May to May I paid £959.21 in just interest. The refund I received was £4102.57.
Many thanks
Fernanda says
Hi Sara,
Quick question. My case has now been with FOS for sometime. Back early august an ombudsman investigation sent a letter to Moneybarn telling them how they should put things right. Moneybarn was quick to replied to the first initial assessment made by FOS but since then they have ignored every communication. I got an email this morning from the investigator saying that my case has now been passed on to an ombudsman for final decision as Moneybarn hasn’t replied since the 12th of August.
Is this likely to go in my favour now they have ignored FOS? Just feels like they are dragging their heels and this is now taking ages.
Thank you for your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
MB may still pop up and accept the decision. Or reject it with reasons.
The Ombudsman normally does uphold adjudicator decisions.
Fernanda says
Thank you Sara.
Fernanda says
Moneybarn have accepted the offer. Received a call from FOS today! 🙌🙌 thank you for your advice. Without this page I would have no idea of my rights and how to complain.
Thank you again
Sara (Debt Camel) says
excellent!
Danni says
Hi Sara,
I taken my complaint to FOS and they have sent this back to me.
With regards to your Conditional Sale agreement with Vauxhall, I understand you are still making the payments towards this and have custody of the vehicle – let me know if this is wrong. Please note, if we uphold your complaint the outcome would involve instructing Vauxhall to end the agreement and for the vehicle to be returned to them.
I have already paid more than the car was purchased for.
Any advice would be great.
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you go back to them and point this out. Say your understanding is that in this case the remainder of the debt would be cleared and any interest you have paid over the amount paid for the car would be refunded to you.
John says
Hi Sara,
I took out car finance with close brothers. I had phone conversations about my salary which was £1400 base pay but sometimes with commission I cloud take home anything up to £3000. And the operator said she could still my income as up to £3000,My credit rating was poor at the time and I had around £5000 in debt. They took the car back after 4 months because I missed some
Payments. They turned up And just took the car when I wasn’t at the home and it still had a coat of mine in the back.
They are now saying I still owe the full amount of the balance?
Regards
John
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can try making an affordability complaint.
MM says
On Friday I got some great news from the investigator saying that they feel Moneybarn did not treat me fairly and that they believe Moneybarn should refund my all overpayments over the car’s original value, plus 8% interest.
Just for some background on my case, I got a car worth 4795 in early 2016, and paid back 166 a month until the end of the loan in 2021. I didn’t miss payments, but when I applied for the loan I had 3 defaults and an income of £17,000 a year. I also had debt which I was unable to pay back because of the car loan, and bank statements full of large payday loans I was in a cycle of borrowing and paying back, plus overdraft charges. Moneybarn said although I had defaults, it was fine because they were 11 months ago (lol, not sure how that’s an argument)
Is anyone able to advise me whether Moneybarn regularly challenges the investigator’s decision and takes it to the ombudsman? Or do they usually just settle?
If Moneybarn is to either not respond or take the case further to the ombudsman, roughly how much additional time can I expect to wait before a decision is made from the ombudsman?
MM says
Just a heads up, Moneybarn just before the deadline asked for my bank statements FOS saw, then next day agreed with the adjudicator and asked for bank details. Thanks so much Sara!
James says
Hi Sara,
Ombudsman found in my favour against SMF, which is great. It has passed their time to respond so I think they get some leeway.
What is the normal process after that or if they do not respond? Do they have a set amount of time to work out how much it should be or is there a formal process?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is this a first level adjudicator/investigator decision? Or from an Ombudsman?
James says
Hi Sara,
First level, they had until Monday to either appeal or agree with the decision but they have not come back yet.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
they will normally be given a few more weeks. Annoying, but its quicker to get the case decided at this level then for it to go to an Ombudsman.
James says
I am guessing they could decide to still go to the ombudsman if they preferred? Hopefully not, if they don’t come back at all is there a process we need to follow or can they just refuse?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If SMF do not reply, the investigator will pass the case on to an Ombudsman to make a Final Decision – a Final Decision is legally binding on the lender.
James says
Thanks Sara, hopefully it won’t come to that.
Nes says
Hi James,
I am just wondering how this played out for you in the end? I am in a similar position.
Heidi says
I am looking to actually move house but Chelsea BS will not give me any good deals because of my credit file. I am out of the product time frame now but as I want to move, I don’t want to get into a deal with them which ties me down. The credit file issue is what pushed me to look at what had happened with Moneybarn otherwise I may have let them just get away with it
Craig C says
Hi Sara,
I have a PCP deal that was taken out last December and should be over 48 months. The monthly payment is £650 and is causing major concerns and I’ve had to borrow on credit cards to manage day to day expenses. The loan wasn’t affordable at the outset in hindsight as I had other loans and credit cards plus mortgage and living expenses, and now I’ve had to make token payments to the credit card companies for the last 6 months.
The issue is that the car is currently in negative equity, so I’d have to find about £3k to sell to a dealer and cover the difference, which isn’t really an option at this time. Should I make an affordability complaint and if so what should I ask for? I don’t particularly mind giving up the car as my partner has one we can use. Any help would be appreciated
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were the payments unaffordable from the beginning? Has your mortgage gone up alt since you got the car?
Craig C says
Yes this was unaffordable at the outset in hindsight due to the other debt I had. My mortgage hasn’t gone up but we’ve had to go interest only for a few months to get some breathing space. The finance company didn’t ask to see bank statements or do an income and expenditure check. My credit score was good at the time but my amount of credit being used was high.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What was the interest rate on the PCP and how large is the ballon payment?
How large were your other debts when you took the car finance out?
When does your mortgage fix end and what are you currently paying on the mortgage?
The reason I am asking what may seem irrelevant questions is that you have a couple of options.
craig C says
Hi Sara, no problem at all answering the questions, any help at all is greatly appreciated.
The APR on the finance is 11.9%. When I first spoke to them it was meant to be 8.9% but because my credit score had dropped a bit the APR went up. The balloon payment is £24,203
Car was bought for £44k last December but now only worth around £34k and I have £37,800 to clear the finance!
Just ran through my other debts as at last December and between loans and credit cards there was around £45k.
We are on a 5 year fix for the mortgage until 2027 (we have just agree to 6 months interest only starting in Nov) – full payment is £954 and int only will be £456
Craig C says
Hi Sara,
There is now a possibly that I may get some cash which could be used to cover the negative equity in the car in order to settle the finance next month.
Is it better to do it this way, and then raise a complaint once we no longer have the car, or should we complain now, continue making payments and wait and see what the outcome is?
I note you also said there may be other options so would be great to hear what they might be.
Thanks, Craig
Dan says
Hi Sarah, I have Just received the settlement payment from MotoNovo on my case and it was less than expected. They were to refund any payments paid over the cash price of the car of £13,096. They did not account for the £1,596 deposit I paid. The amount lent from Motonovo was £11,500 total paid back to them with interest was £14,687, (adding the deposit gives £16,283 which matches the agreement of total payable)their maths was £14,687-£13,096 to get £1,591. I queried with them and they responded saying they have emailed the FOS adjudicator for guidance. Do you think I can expect the adjudicator to advise them to pay the remaining that would be expected?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
From what you have said, I think you should get back 14687-11500
If the adjudicator disagrees, ask for this to go to an Ombudsman.
Dan says
That’s what I was thinking which also equals the same as the total £16,283-£13,096. Let’s hope the adjudicator agrees and MotoNovo send the remaining £1,527
Dan says
Adjudicator came back this afternoon agreeing with what we said. And that Motonovo were supposed to included the deposits in the amount paid. Instead of deducting the £1,596 from the total paid at the end of the balance, they refunded the deposit from the day the deposit was paid. Gained an additional 5years of interest refund! Thank you again for your advice on this site Sara!
RosettA says
Hello
In December 2022 o took out a car loan because I was desperate for a car I order to work. My credit was very poor so went with advantage. I can’t really remember the steps I went through to get the loan. In June 2023 I decided I could t afford it anymore and handed the car back under voluntary termination. The car was 6500 pounds and the interest was 7000 pounds. Advantage have said under voluntary termination I have to pay at least 50% of the total amount (amount borrowed plus interest) so even though they have sold the car and despite me having it for only 6 months, I owe them over 5000 pounds still and nothing to show for it other than the use of a car for 6 months. Do I have grounds for a complaint?
Thanks I’m advance.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Advantage have accurately described what happens after VT.
If you think Advantage should have seen the finance was unaffordable for you last December, make an affordability complaint, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ for a template. If you win that, the balance you will owe will be cleared and you will get any deposit back.
How large are your other debts?
Mark says
Hi. So ive had a complaint with the ombudsman for around 6 months now against moneybarn. The adjudicator who was looking at the complaint left the FCA and a new adjudicator was assigned and i think he had to start investigating from scratch.
Anyway, i have just had this sent through from him asking me to answer these 3 questions. Is there a good way to answer / correct terminology to use etc?
What I need:
1.Please confirm when you first became aware there was a problem?
2.Please explain what made you aware of the problem?
3. Please explain if there was anything preventing you from raising a complaint sooner?
Any help would be great. Thanks very much.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when did the car finance start?
Mark says
It was march 2016, and ended in march 2020. My first complaint to moneybarn was around 12 months ago but it was outside of the allowed period, but i didnt know at the time about the conplaints we could make. For example, i tried to get finance on a car and they rejected it and told me i needed to pick a more expensive car to get approved, and because i desperately needed one for work i just picked a random more expensive car. I had multiple unpaid payday loans (i still have a couple) and my credit score was a wreck. I prioritised this car finance as i simply needed it to get to work to earn money. I fell behind with other payments. I had a bad gambling problem at the time. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
here is a draft but you MUST change this so it really reflects what you thought:
1.Please confirm when you first became aware there was a problem?
My finances were already a mess when took the car so I expected it to be expensive. I prioritised paying this car finance because I couldn’t risk losing the car. Things were getting worse, but this seemed to be my problem for agreeing to the finance. I didn’t know Moneybarn should have made checks that I could afford the car so I didn’t realise that they had done anything wrong that I could complain about.
2.Please explain what made you aware of the problem?
Say how you found out about these affordability complaints – a newspaper article? Advert from a claims company? Give some details
3. Please explain if there was anything preventing you from raising a complaint sooner?
I complained as soon as I realised that Moneybarn couldn’t have made the checks they should have.
(please don’t leave multiple replies just because one isn’t published quickly)
MM says
Is anyone able to let me know how long Moneybarn took to give them a settlement figure?
25 days since they agreed with FOS findings and counting… (21 days since FOS closed case). I’m guessing this is probably very normal given they will be in no rush to pay out…
Jamie says
Hi ,
How did you get on ?i am in a similar position and no one has been in touch since the ombudsman closed the case .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how long ago was that Jamie?
jamie says
Hi, i have today received my settlement letter from Moneybarn but don’t think it’s right, I think the interest is wrong. Below are the figures.
Refund of Overpayments
£7,085.39
8% Simple Interest
£547.69
Tax deducted
-£109.54
Total Refund Due
£7,523.54
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Before this decision, did you still owe money on the car finance?
jamie says
there was around 4k left on the agreement
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so the 8% interest will only have started to be paid from the point where the balance was cleared. what were your monthly payments?
jamie says
Hi Sara , they were 399 per month .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So this is a very rough calculation, not what a lender does. A cash refund of 7000 is about 18 months payments. About 18 months ago your refund starting building up from 0 to 7000 – that is the same as having a refund of 7000 for half that time. The 8% calculated doesnt look wrong to me.
If you are a basic rate tax payer, you can probbably claim the tax deducted back from HMRC. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/ppi-payday-refund-get-back-tax/
LR says
Hi did you get a reply? I’m on day 28 now and I haven’t even had a settlement/redress figure, I’m also with moneybarn and have had no update since then agreeing to pay back everything over the cash value plus 8%
Steph says
I’m wondering if anyone has any success with claims over 10 years old?
I went through a very long spell of Domestic Violence and financial control. My now ex husband took out car finance in my name – i couldn’t have been credit worthy as not employed – self employed but never anymore than £300-500 in my bank as my ex would drip feed me money. I started a claim in February after a counsellor told me the severity of what he’d done and the financial impact it’s had since.
The claim has been with the ombudsman since July but they wrote to me to say although i could give bank statements of that period Moneybarn simply say they have deleted my details (finance taken out in 2012)
The ombudsman understood why it’s taken so long to come forward – 2 x suicide attempts and a lot of anxiety around finances etc.
I feel like if they continue to say that they don’t have my details now i’m doomed
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Do you still owe any money as a result of this?
Steph says
I was forced years later to take out car finance again with moneybarn as the only company that would lend with my credit score so currently owe them 5500 (took this out 2 years ago as i needed a vehicle to go back office based)
I’ve struggled with money since and was actually in a debt management plan six months before the original finance was taken out but they leant anyway. He took out pay day loans etc which are visible on my bank statements. He would only transfer enough money to me to pay the thr rent and the odd 100 here and there for food
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have you only complained about the earlier HP, or the current one as well?
Steph says
the earlier one only
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well as you have your bank statements, that may be enough given the other circumstances of this case.
You may also have a claim against Moneybarn for the curent car loan. But you may want to delay making that until you have repaid them the amount that borrowed… if you win a claim before that point, you may lose the car.
Stephanie says
Thanks – guess we’ll wait and see – The ombudsman hasn’t answered my email from over a week ago asking for an update so no news is good news i guess.
What would i claim for on the new loan if I won and paid it off?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
unaffordable lending – same as the first one.
you dont need to have paid it all off, just got tot the point where you have repaid the amount borrowed, ignoring inrest that is being added.
Stephanie says
I’ve had an update to say that the Ombudsman has given Moneybarn until the 8th December to try and find info from what I’ve given and he’ll take a view after that. Back to the waiting game,
Shane says
Hi all,
I have had a car on finance with advantage finance, I have been in financial hardship since I had this and have a gambling addition they have agreed that the uphold my complaint for irresponsible lending but said they won’t repay the interest and any compensation I made the complaint on 28/12 and they responded final response today they said they don’t find they have lent irresponsible but withhold my complaint they said I have seven days to return the vehicle and they will squash the loan but what about interest paid, redress and my credit rating I have taken out credit cards to live I have paid in 8 months 12% on of loan which equates to £2600. The total loan agreement was £19600 for a vehicle prices at £8999 and advice would be most appreciated should I refer to FCA or take the offer of returning the car and squashing the loan as interest paid, compensation and credit rating is still payable surely
Sara (Debt Camel) says
can you manage without a car?
Shane says
Not really but I can’t afford it so leaves me little options the one thing is they have refused to pay any interest back or provide me with the interest I have paid however they have upheld my complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
so as the article above says, in this situation the Ombudsman usually says:
“the lender should take back the car;
any remaining balance you owe should be cleared;
you should have a refund of your deposit plus the payments you have made less what a fair usage charge per month would be.”
Did you pay a depost?
Shane Hargreaves says
Hi Sara,
No deposit paid but I have been paying £390 a month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In that case the “fair value” that the Ombudsman would set would probably be below £390, so you would get back some money for each month you have been paying.
What sum would you be happy with? You could propose to Advanatge that you would be prepared to settle the complaint for that, otherwise you will be returning the car, as it is not affordable, but talking your case to the Ombudsman for redress.
Shane says
It’s just working out the fair usage does anyone know the calculation they use? What about negative marks on my credit score?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No-one knows…
you have missed payments to the finance? Yes, ask for them to be removed too.
Shane says
Hi Sara FCA are now involved advantage won’t budge and said I can give the car back and forfeit the loan bit won’t refund on interest or review marks on my credit file, FCA said either accept or let them investigate however in the disclaimer email said of they find it’s not irresponsible lending or inappropriate checks they feel were appropriate then I may still end up with the debt but surely if FCA investigate and advantage have upheld my complaint regarding irresponsible lending even though they have said they haven’t at the very least FCA should say the car can go back and the loan forfeit surely?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry, do you mean FCA? Or FOS, the Ombudsman?
Shane says
Obudsman service
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the problem here is that it is really hard to guess at what FOS may set as fair value. You may ened up with not a lot of compensation at the end of this.
There is also some risk that FOS will decide the agreement was affordable… but you obviously feel that it wasnt and the lender gave in pretty quickly, so that doesn’t seem very likely? I have never heard of FOS taking such a decision in a car finance case when the lender had offered to end the contract and clear the balance.
Nes says
Hi Sara,
My complaint was rejected by SMF (Specialist Motor Finance), i referred it to the FOS. Last week i had a response from the adjudicator who sent me a copy of the letter she had sent to SMF. She felt their checks were inadequate and that they could have done more. Given this and with the clear hardship I faced she has ruled that they refund me the all the amount repaid above the price paid for the car. My car finance was all paid up with SMF last year via a refinancing offer on better terms elsewhere.
Now they have around 2 weeks to respond. Do you know what SMF are like at accepting decisions from adjudicators?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I’m sorry but I don’t have a good feel for this.
Lyneal says
Hi Sara I recently won my case against moneybarn through the FOS, they owe me around £5000 can’t remember the exact figure, but they have refused to pay, when I called to explain I was struggling paying as I had to come out of work as my daughter was having serious mental health problems they said he only way out was to settle early as I wasn’t far enough into my agreement, so I sold the car to a garage they settled my final settlement and moneybarn have now said I’m not entitled as a third party paid, but they did this with me there I had to call and they knew what was going on, I just want to know if they can do this an have I got any chance of getting this money back? Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
hi Lyn, I replied to your previous comment about this on another page: https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/comment-page-39/#comment-524675
Scott says
I had a car loan from advantage finance back in 2016.
I struggled to pay the loan and was taken to court where an arrangement to pay a set amount was agreed.
Advantage then offered a reduced settlement amount and I cleared the finance as it was only around £1000.
When I took out the loan I had a CCJ and was behind with my mortgage and council tax.
I placed an affordability complaint but advantage have returned to me saying as this was taken to court i cannot claim for affordability, is this correct?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can take the case to the Ombudsman who may decide they can look at it.
Mr s says
Will a claim be considered if no bank statements are submitted
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I can only say it is much easier to win complaints when there are bank statements. How long ago did the finance start?
Sam says
Hi Sara,
I have just heard back from the Ombudsman about a claim against Moneybarn. They have said that they can’t look into it as it is beyond the 6 years. I think I know the answer to my question but I thought I’d ask anyway. Is there anything else that can be done about this? I just can’t believe Moneybarn are going to get away with it just because I wasnt aware I could complain at the time.
Regards
Sara (Debt Camel) says
is this decision from an adjudicator or an Ombudsman?
Sam says
This is from the Ombudsman!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If that is a final decision from an Ombudsman, there is nothing further you can do. (Except take Moneybard to court, and you would need professional advice (ege a solicitor) on that.)
Ben Hatt says
Hi Sara
I had a car purchased in 2017, financed the whole car (part exchanged my old one for it) and it was paid off last year. It was through Motonovo, and I’ve had a letter and a very quick refund into my account of £200 saying they they made an error in the amount of interest charged when my agreement went into arrears. I didn’t ever going into arrears.
Do you think this is their tactic to avoid any further claim, and what would you advise I do here?
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So you have two potential claims here.
The first is affordability – were the finance repayments really hard to manage from the start? You say you don’t think there were arrears = it is possible to win an affordability complaint if you made every payment on time if doing this made you get into other debt elsewhere.
the second is a car commission claim – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-commission-get-refund/ which looks at these. You will get a small refund if you have a claim here than for affordability but it simply depends on whether Motonovo used any form of discretionary commission in your finance. The only way to find out is to ask, as that article explains.
Jane says
Hello, is this a good letter to send to our car finance company? We have paid everything off but did go onto a DMP about 9 months after taking on the car finance and have had to borrow money for the balloon payment.
I am making a complaint to you about irresponsible lending. You should never have given me this unaffordable car finance loan.
I am asking you to refund the interest, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
I attach copies of my bank statements from the time I applied for this car loan. I didn’t know that the lender was supposed to check that I could repay the loan without having to borrow more. I only found out recently when a friend said they had made a complaint. So, there I am complaining within 3 years of having found out that I have cause to complain.
I was not asked for my bank statements to check the loan was affordable and a few months after taking on this car finance loan I had to enter a debt management plan due to the high amount of debt I was already repaying.
Furthermore, I could not afford the balloon payment at the end of the finance term which resulted in having to borrow more to pay this off.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
sounds good!
Jane says
Thank you :)