The FCA says that over a hundred debt management firms who applied for authorisation have been refused or have withdrawn their application. In September 2016, Debt Clever became one of these firms.
Some firms that are closing are looking for ways to continue to make money from their clients. My previous article, Why the FCA should ban the Compass debt advice model, has some examples. This article looks at the different approach that seems to have been adopted by Debt Clever.
Background on Debt Clever and Valour Group
Debt Clever is a brand name of Debt Clever Financial Management. The company changed its name in July 2016 from Valour Financial Management Ltd, two months before it closed.
It is a subsidiary of Valour Group UK (PLC). Despite the plc in the name,Valour Group doesn’t seem to be publicly listed at the moment. Valour’s current mini bond offering says it makes £600k a year profit from every £1 million lent by its subsidiary, Savvy, a HCST loan provider.
Valour Group’s CEO is Mark Bowker. Bowker is listed on the FCA register as the contact for Clever Debt. His twitter account says: Not sure how I’ve managed it but busy living the dream :)
Clever Law is targeting Debt Clever clients
The Clever Law website (cleverlaw.co.uk) belongs to On-line Legal Documents Ltd. Mark Bowker is the only shareholder of On-line Legal Documents Ltd.
This is another company that has recently re-branded, adopting the Clever Law name in August this year, one month after the Debt Clever name change. It also seems to have changed its business entirely at that point – before then it was an Internet Services Provider.
The Clever Law website says it has a library of legal templates, letters and documents. For debts, it promises:
you will find all of the template letters and template documents you will need to help you to get creditors to accept payment arrangements and to prevent court collections processes against you.
They are charging a monthly subscription of £29.99 a month – or an extra £10 a month if you want your own cleverlaw email address (£120 a year for an email address! madness for anyone with financial problems!).
The website sign-up process doesn’t work, so I phoned customer service and was asked what my Debt Clever reference number was. When I said I didn’t know, I was told this was the same as my Valour reference number. I said I had just tried to sign up on the website, which seemed to confuse the woman I was talking to. She talked to her manager. I was then told that there may be a website problem and someone would get back to me – no-one has.
So it looks as though:
- Clever Law was set up to take on Debt Clever clients;
- it is mainly, possibly only, dealing with Debt Clever clients at the moment. They certainly don’t seem keen to get other clients;
- Clever Law has some Debt Clever’s client details, such as their reference number.
Some questions
The question for Debt Clever clients is:
Is Clever Law worth paying for?
If the Clever Law service is just some template letters and generic information on debt management, it’s not worth paying for. You can get a better service elsewhere for free:
- National Debtline has an extensive and free library of template letters and information about making arrangements with creditors and court processes. You can also phone them up and they will talk about your specific situation, help you get an income and expenditure sheet in a format your creditors will be happy with and look at whether you have any better debt options.
- CABMoney is a free facility from Citizens Advice that lets you run your own debt management plan, calculating the pro rata offers and generating letters to creditors. It also has letters to creditors for use when you are switching from a different DMP provider such as Debt Clever.
- read When & how to ask for a CCA agreement. For credit cards, catalogues and most loans, if the creditor can’t send you a copy of the CCA, you can simply stop paying it, or offer them a very low settlement offer.
Is a cleverlaw email address worth paying anything for? Perhaps people are supposed to think it looks professional so creditors will accept an offer coming from such an email. But creditors should treat offers from an individual in the same way as an offer from a debt management firm. No, this isn’t worth paying for.
The two questions that the FCA may like to consider are:
Should Clever Law be authorised?
I don’t know whether Clever Law has details of a Debt Clever’s customer: creditors, balances owed, current monthly offer of payment. If it has, it would make it easier for Clever Law to generate useful letters for the customer to send to creditors.
But having detailed client information or having “an expert ready and able to provide the advice you require” as the Clever Law website promises, is very close to debt counselling.
Clever Law seems to be in a difficult position here. If it is providing a useful, tailored service to previous Debt Clever customers, it’s hard to see why it shouldn’t be regulated. And if it isn’t providing a tailored service, it’s not worth paying any money for.
Did Debt Clever behave correctly?
I assume that Debt Clever did signpost its customers to free debt advice. But they also provided information about Clever Law. One customer commented on MumsNet:
They have also sent a bunch of attachments offering a bundle of services from a company that sounds somewhat similar to sort out the rest of his debt.
Was this in the customers’ best interests? Could the similar branding have been misleading to some customers? Did Debt Clever’s letter make it clear to customers that the Clever Law was not authorised, would not sort out the customer’s debt problem and was charging for a service that they could get for free elsewhere?
The FCA has told DMP firms that are closing down that:
we therefore expect firms to inform us at an early stage, including providing us with at least 10 days working days’ notice, of any proposed sale or purchase of customer lists or customer contracts.
This was in the context of a DMP firm transferring/selling its customers to another debt management firm, but I can’t see why it wouldn’t also apply to dealings with a non-authorised firm such as Clever Law. Given the common ownership, I suppose it is possible that no money was actually paid by Clever Law to Debt Clever, but a free transfer of information would seem to be against the spirit of the FCA’s letter. It may also have been problematic from the point of view of data protection.
So far Clever Law haven’t responded to me and I haven’t seen its library of templates.
I will update this article if I get more information.
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Conor McGivern says
I have had a few calls from debt clever’s clients and they seem to be quite confused as to what is happening. They have tried stepchange but not getting much help and don’t want to contact this new company, clever law.
I think it is the original company trying to be to smart to customer detriment. It would be useful if there was a statement from the regulator but that might be too much to ask….
Liam says
hi could I ask why clients arn’t getting much help from stepchange ? I work for stepchange and as far as I am concerned I/ we always give clients full and best advice regardless of their situation.
Iris says
I decided like a fool to pay £ 39.99 stsrting november to clever law which h i will now be cancelling after the shambles i have dealt with this week. My standing orders were not set up on time so no creditors got paid.
In the end i have had to phone each creditor myself and pay them over the phone this month then set up my own standing orders because they failed to . They saud the S/O would go out on the 1st of november but that came and went so i called them and they said they are snowed under trying to set up every ones new details and my S/O would have yo go out on 7th this month folowed by the 1st after that , this did not happen and bank have still not teceived them so did them myself and in one hour i had paid everyone and set up my new S/O’s for my creditors.
On top of that on the 3rd they said my £39.99 wasnt paid because they hadnt set up direct debit on time so i would have to pay this months subscription by debit card followed by direct debit there after . Guess what happened ! On the 3rd i paid £39.99 on my card and on 4th £39.99 went out by direct debit leaving me not only skint but overdrawn this by the company there to help you get out of debt almost ruined the good payment agreement i have with each creditor snd left me skint for a week until the direct debit money went back to my account .
So what am i paying them for? I dont need any legal letters and thanks to them i had to ring each creditor anyway and they were happy with my agreement and said they wont write or harass me because i have never missed a payment ironically up until now and they were really freindly so i dont need clever law’s help.
I was a bit puzzled when the staff told me that as debt clever /valour they were ceasing trading but opening as clever law with all the same staff doing same jobs . Strange .
Jack Bauer says
Iris,
For the 39.99 taken by DD, make a DD indemnity claim with your bank and tell them what happened, they will/should refund the 39.99
Iris Caveney says
I got it back aftet 10 days . But they have made such a mess of my finances that im appalled that they are allowed to even be in business. Luckily i sorted all the mess out myself and am now straight .
Andre says
Had a same issue! No one could respond directly to a basic question such as : ” I have signed up a contract agreement over a period of time on a fixe agreement with Valour.. why should I now be ask to pay this £39.99… (which I cancelled last month only, ) as I was and still so confused about their company switch!!!!! And being penalised for it when I have already paid their fees for their services !!! Im So glad I came accros this review!! Valour took they own charge firstly (like £2000 on top of my debt) and were at the time paying really small amounts back to creditors after taking they big fees… that went on for a few months…. then they started spreading the cost to my creditors for another year or so and to find out last year that they will not be assisting us any longer as the company was closing/ changing name!!!!!!!! ( which I believe they breach their contract with us the client) I ended up receiving again calls/ letters … from my creditors and decided to ask them again to explain why I should have to pay this £39.99/ monthly when they have already taken they massive charges in the first place!! And finding myself again having to deal with the situation and creditors due to them moving on/ closing.!!! CLEARLY A BREACH OF CONTRACT IN MY EYES! I requested further explanation but the topic was completely avoid on several occasions.. I then realised that the figure on my portal where clearly not updated and mentioned that a few time to them but yet again nothing were done about it.. I was so confused and felt kind of scammed ! So I decided to contact my creditors directly to ask them to confirm what as been paid off and what was left.. which clearly confirmed my concerned !!!! Got back to them (debt clever) to inform them that I have just spoken to the creditors. Which confirmed that their account where paid in full!!!! They would take that neither and where asking for confirmation as there system were still showing crazy figures after 3 years of paying them back and only a few month left of our agreement… that 3 of my creditors as know confirmed that the accounts were fully paid of. And the first one did it monghs before but yet again nothing was clear.. I just spoke to my bank today which again confirmed.. I’m debt free… the clever law of whatever their name (well confused still) is still showing I’m owning the creditor I just spoke today.. 5 mins ago the amount of over £1,300… mmmmm thanks every one I m on my phone right away to them now and will surely ask for their complaints procedures/Requested a refund for every single £39.99 they have been taking from my account for months!!!!!!! ANC also take that to my local citizens advice bureau for advice on this matter!!! Thank you for the review
Dan says
My company have seen a lot of these recently – a lot of people (crazy I must say) that have opted for the £39.99 option with the @cleverlaw.co.uk email address. Not only is it a falsehood that such an email suffix would encourage a more favourable response, but it leaves a sour taste in that these email address make it seem that the customer is an employee of Clever Law. Clearly this isn’t the case, but given that this company is charging a small fortune, and supposedly not offering any debt advice or adjusting, it begs the question as to whether the FCA should run their fingers over this operation. It also begs the question as to whether Clever Law have access to such emails if indeed customers are using the email address through the website.
The company has been quite “clever” in their Terms & Conditions, where they state that:
“We are not a firm of solicitors and our services are not an alternative to seeking professional legal advice and representation. We recommend that if you are in doubt you should always contact a firm of solicitors. If you are using any debt related templates please note that we do not provide any type of debt adjusting or debt counselling services”and that “You acknowledge and accept that the information, ‘ask an expert’ advice and template documents and forms provided by Cleverlaw.co.uk are not intended to replace legal or other professional advice. We strongly advise that such advice be sought in all cases where such advice is necessary or appropriate, particularly, in any circumstances where you are in any way unsure about the legal aspects of the template letters or documents or any related matters”.
We have heard from a few customers so far, that are convinced that Clever Law are debt-adusting for her (£100.00pm she was quoted as paying Clever Law including money for creditors), and from others who essentially have implied that they have been advised, or have had help creating a Financial Statement from Clever Law. On all Financial Statements received we also note that the Clever Law subscription of £39.99 has been listed as “Legal Fee”, despite their stating “We are not a firm of solicitors and our services are not an alternative to seeking professional legal advice and representation”. Whether this can be proven to be any of Clever Law’s doing I am uncertain.
We have also heard that Clever Law are happy to receive and send the documents on offer to the customer’s creditors for them.
What also unsettles me is that this was clearly discussed with customers while they were customers. One customer’s paperwork received in conjunction with Clever Law was signed on 26th September 2016, whilst Debt Clever did not lapse in their FCA permissions until October 18th. This could mean that the customer was advised at this point when Debt Clever Financial Management Limited still had debt-counselling permissions, but the line is certainly blurred around this.
We are still wary and trying to get our heads around how to deal with these customers, but I would hope in due time (most probably a long way away) that the FCA get a look at their operation.
Nina says
Disgusting Service from a dodgy set up. I have demanded a refund of my £39.99 and have advised debt clever i will approach BBC Watchdog. I ended up calling my creditors to be told by 2 of them that my account was a 0 balance. I cancelled my direct debit with clever law and have advised them that they are a waste of time. Shocking
Iris says
I too have given them 30 days notice to cancel . After setting up all my own standing orders becayse they failed to they now infirm me thst they have sent them to the bank so now i will 2 lots set up in my bank account that i now will have to cancel . Utter shambles
Alan Parker says
OK, OK, so they do seem to run a very dodgy model since the lapse of their FCA license, but putting that to one side, who wants to lend the Chairman £5 million so he can lend the money to all his debt clients????
Roll up roll up and fill yer boots!
http://www.markbowker.com/valour-to-raise-5m-for-mini-bond/
Fred says
I was a Valour/ Debtclever customer and was very satisfied with the service, but when the Debt management section closed, I was not convinced by the new service that was being offered. I am now paying off my debts , with a agreed monthly amount with the companies I owe money to.
Lauren says
My boyfriend used this company and they advised him verbally that he could get a mortgage within two years. He has now been completely messed around by them and his credit score is a not good as a result. We cannot buy a house because of it. He was misold a service which cost him his future. Not even the Ombusman can start a case against them because they have gone into liquidation. It is a complete nightmare. I am beginning to think he is just going to have to live with the consequences of bad advice.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
When he went to Debt Clever he was presumably unable to make the normal debt repayments? He now has defaults on his credit record? Dated how long ago? Have these debts been repaid?
Lauren says
The debts were all paid off January last year. Although they are not marked as satisfied on his accounts yet (he has written to the companies to alter this).
He went to Valour Finance because he wanted to pay his bills all in one place and they told him that he would look good to creditors if he used their company.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If the debts have been settled, then they should be showing as satisfied with a zero balance owing. It’s not clear to me he he did miss payments or had defaults registered. He needs to work out what happened and check his credit records reflect this. If he was misled by Valour, there is probably nothing that can be done about this unfortunately.
Lauren says
He has rang both companies up previously and they have both told him that he does not owe them any money. Hopefully they will change this and update his credit score soon.
It is so sad that there is nothing we can do when he was mis-sold a service. Thank you anyway though!
Dan says
Lauren,
Your husband should start by contacting any outstanding creditors on his credit file and gaining confirmation of outstanding balances. It’s entirely possible that the Debt Management Company did not check with creditors whether the balances were definitely cleared when they anticipated they would be, as they may have been working from an estimated balance.
Creditors should issue you letters confirming balances as “Paid in Full” (assuming you’ve kept them updated with any changes to your address), so it is a little worrying if you haven’t received such letters, and credit file updates usually take 6-8 weeks, which if you’re correct, has long and passed.
Contacting creditors by phone would probably be best. It’s not unusual and I see it frequently at my workplace that debt management companies have stopped payments short of the full balance. If you’re still unsure should creditors say there is an outstanding balance, you can always request a transaction log from the current owners (if the debt has been sold) or even historical statements from the original creditor if necessary (the former is usually enough) – simply check these against your records.
Once the debts are sorted out as satisfied on his credit file the main thing that could affect his credit score/mortgage applications would be dependant on any defaults that were applied to any of the accounts and how long ago they were applied. Assuming you’re not in Scotland a default lapses after 6 years (Scotland is 5), and should stop affecting the credit score thereafter. Whether that’s good enough then for mortgage lenders is another question.
Hope that helps.
Lauren says
In a few months my boyfriends credit score will improve. We have been told that to qualify for a Help to Buy Mortgage it cannot say on his account that he used a DMP. We have written to the company that have this note on his account and asked them to remove it, on the first attempt, they said no. Do you think there is realistically any change that they will remove the note?
Mark says
I work as a debt management liaison for a debt purchaser, whilst in general I find that clients in fee charging debt management are vulnerable to any company offering to help them, it is also very clear that they generally debtors dont realise that they can find the same assistance for free or understand that an offer from a debtor direct carries the same weight as one from a debt management company, in many cases debtors do require assistance but in terms of the value for money of a debt management plan, I have rarely seen one (though after the bad press that collections companies are historically tarred with and the brainwashing by the dmc’s that creditors are the devil and must not be spoken with the tend to play out as angels- for a fee………..).
What it appears cleverlaw are doing is taking advantage of debtors in need of real help and reassurance, in a bid to cling on to the debt management fee revenue that the lapsed FCA permission for their mother company debt clever will have caused.
In my experience it seems that many have been mis lead by clever law – and are under the impression they are acting as a debt management company, which legally they cant as they dont have the regulatory authorisation, this may of course not be the case as what debtors are told and what they hear are often wildly different things.
Cleverlaw are not a debt management company – they dont answer creditor queries, hence the mailboxes they set up for their clients, their clients pay direct to creditors rather than via cleverlaw – its clever on cleverlaw’s part because they distance themselves from getting their hands dirty and being caught acting in a debt management capacity, though their clients generally believe thats what they are paying them for.
Explained correctly to a client in debt, cleverlaw merely offer letter templates, the value of these is negligible as any templates required for debt management issues can be found online, for free here https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/sample-letters-to-creditors/ here https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/default.aspx & https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/dealing-with-debt-problems/sample-letters.aspx
Cleverlaw bill their clients under the guise of “legal services” though curiously the response when queried what the “legal services” are for is:
….an online legal template service which is used to help deal with various ongoing legal matters which I don’t wish to go into the details about due to their personal/confidential nature and the fact that they are subject to legal privilege.
I am using this online template service to communicate with my creditors during this stressful period until my personal debts are settled in full and also to deal with other important financial and legal personal issues.
To my knowledge cleverlaw is not a firm of solicitors and in conversations with the debtor who purportedly authored the response, not only were they not aware of any ongoing legal matters, they also had no recollection of sending that response.
By stopping the £39.99 per month to clever law nothing would change save the debtor would be £39.99 a month better off – if they paid that to their creditors they would be debt free sooner and both the debtor and their creditors would want that – the only party that wouldnt, i suspect is clever law……
The sooner debt, interest, loans and real finance is taught in school the better.
Dan says
Agreed wholeheartedly Mark. Working on the Debt Collection Agency side of things I couldn’t agree more with your post.
Thankfully since the initial spike of customers using Clever Law, I have observed a significant decline in correspondence received in their guise. This is, at least circumstantially, a silver lining.
Peter Donovan says
I had worked for this company when it was still called Valour Financial Management, then the name was changed to DebtClever and shortly after that we lost licence. This is a dodgy setup of course. to. The introduction packs that were sent to debtclever customers strongly encouraged them to switch to cleverlaw, promised nothing would change for them,etc. They also stressed out that the debtclever staff customers knew simply moved to cleverlaw
GMA says
Does anyone have working contact details for Lawrence Charlton? A friend was in dmp and needs his statements for a mortgage application but no numbers work and no reply from email
Address that he can find online, thanks
Dan says
Lawrence Charlton are no longer in operation. You could try calling Fairpoint Group who were the parent company. Their general enquiries number is 0344 826 1209.
GMA says
Many thanks will
Pass it on x
ms k says
How is this company still allowed to exist?
in a vulnerable position, i stupidly signed up to clever law after they assured me it was credit file friendly.
They completely misled me and now I have 2 defaults and missed payments. I wasn’t notified about the defaults as all correspondence was going to “Cleverlaw”
my family home is being sold due to a nasty divorce and i now cannot get a mortgage. To rent means i will lose my share of the house equity so i will never afford to buy a house. they have stolen mine and my children’s future and no one seems to be able to do anything about it
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you say some more about all the correspondence going to Clever Law?