UPDATE: The Morses Scheme has failed. See Morses – what is happening to loans and refunds
UPDATE: in March 2022, Loans At Home went into administration. There is no money to pay any refunds. Any remaining loans have been written off and you should not make any payments to them.
UPDATE: The Provident Scheme has now closed and it is too late to make any Provident complaints.
Doorstep lending – also called home credit – is where a collector comes to your house to collect the repayments. Many people have been borrowing from the same lender for years.
If you had doorstep loans, you may be able to get a refund of the interest you paid if the lender should have realised the loan was unaffordable for you.
Contents
What is an “unaffordable” loan?
The regulator says that a loan is unaffordable if you couldn’t make the repayments without borrowing again. This could be borrowing from the same lender, from someone else, getting deeper into your overdraft or by not paying a bill.
So even if you always paid your loans on time, they could still have been unaffordable. Especially if you had several loans at the same time or often had to refinance/top-up a loan.
Often the first few loans may have been just about affordable, but the lender should have realised their loans were making your life more difficult when you kept getting more loans.
If you were struggling, your agent should have suggested that you could repay the current one a lot more slowly with no extra interest being added. But too often people were just offered another larger loan.
That was irresponsible lending and you should get a refund back of the interest you paid.
You are very unlikely to get a refund for only one loan. But if you borrowed several times and if you took out a new loan when you were having problems paying an existing one, then complain.
How to ask for a refund from home credit lenders
Here is a template letter you can use. Change it so it tells what happened to you.
Template letter for doorstep loan refunds
I want you to send me a list of them, showing for each loan when it was taken out, how much interest and charges you added and what I repaid. I would like you to send me a complete list even if you consider that some of the loans are too old to be refunded. [delete this if you have all your loan details.]
You should never have given me these unaffordable loans. I am asking you to refund the interest and any charges I paid, plus statutory interest, and to delete any negative information from my credit record.
[If any of the following happened to you, add a couple of sentences describing this. If the problems didn’t happen for all of your loans, add the words OFTEN or SOMETIMES. Delete any that didn’t happen to you.]
- I have borrowed from you continuously for [say how many years]. Every time I repaid a few payments my collector encouraged me to take a top up and refinance it. My collector never explained I would have paid less interest if I just took a new loan and carried on repaying the old one.
- I missed several payments and the collector knew I was in difficulty as I had lost my job/had my hours cut/benefits reduced but I was just offered a new loan. I was never told that I could have a repayment plan for my existing loan instead.
- When I asked my collector if I could pay over a longer period, he/she said I couldn’t unless I took a new loan.
- For the first loan my collector looked at my payslip but after that he never checked and never asked if I was getting the same money – I wasn’t.
- My collector said I needed to change some things on my application otherwise it wouldn’t be approved.
- My collector filled out the application and gave it to me to sign, I didn’t have time to read it.
I didn’t know that the lender was supposed to check that I could repay the loan without having to borrow more. I only found out in [say when and how you heard about these refunds – article in the Sun? Facebook advert? friend told you?]
Also include your customer reference number if you had one. And explain if you have moved address or changed your email so they can locate your account.
Contact details for doorstep lenders
- Cockle email enquiries@cocklefinance.co.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
- Compton Finance email mark.phillips@comptonfinance.co.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
- GR Finance email grfinanceltd@gmail.com with Affordability Complaint as the title
- Mutual email to complaints@mutual.uk.com.
- Naylors Finance email with Complaint in the title to admin@jrnaylors.com.
- Pinewood Finance C0 email tracy.evans@pinewood-finance.co.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
- Short Term Finance (Birmingham) Use their online form and copy your complaints letter into there: complaints to Short-Term Finance.
- Skyline Direct complaints@skylinedirect.com
- Swift ivan@swiftdl.co.uk
- Valleys Finance admin@valleysfinance.ltd.uk with Affordability Complaint as the title
Keep a copy of online complaints or letter sent – if you email it to yourself it’s easy to pass on to the Ombudsman if needed.
You should get a response in 8 weeks
You may get a list of your loans on its own. This is NOT the response to your complaint, which will arrive later. You don’t need to do anything with the list of loans, just keep it. If the lender makes you an offer, it will help you to see how good or bad it is.
The lender should reply to your complaint within 8 weeks from when you send the email, not when they acknowledge it.
Lenders may be very slow about replying to complaints and they often don’t make a good offer. They may ask for two more weeks several times… I suggest you send the case to the Ombudsman straight away after 8 weeks.
How strong is your complaint?
Very large numbers of these complaints are being won at the Ombudsman – in the last quarter of 2020, 84% of doorstep lending complaints were won by the borrower.
In all of those Ombudsman cases, the lender had either rejected the complaint or made a poor offer.
So don’t be put off if this happens to you, send it to the Ombudsman!.
Three useful guidelines are:
- The more loans you had, the better your case. Borrowing for long periods by taking out new loans or refinancing existing ones shows you were dependent on the loans.
- It can be hard to win a complaint for just a couple of small loans.
- It’s normal to not get the first few loans refunded. If a lender has offered you a refund on loans 5-12 that is probably a good offer. But if they have offered a refund on just loans 10-12 it probably isn’t.
- The larger the loans became, the better your complaint is.
- The Ombudsman will usually look at loans that are over 6 years old, but many lenders just refuse. You can go back to 2007.
Sending a complaint to the Ombudsman
The easiest way to send a complaint is to use their online application form because that asks all the questions they need to know the answer to (most of these are easy, such as would you like to be contacted by letter, email or phone?).
You probably won’t get a refund back of all the interest you paid… but ask for a refund on all loans and let the Ombudsman make the decision about where your loans became unaffordable.
You don’t have to calculate anything or ask for a specific amount. If you don’t yet have a list of your loans, say you have asked for one but the lender hasn’t sent it.
What should you say to FOS?
There isn’t a separate template for this. You can just copy the complaint you sent to the lender. But here are some more things you may want to add.
- Say if you had a poor credit record, especially if it got worse as you carried on borrowing from the doorstep lender.
- Say if you repaid some loans early because you refinanced your loan. Here you may have paid more in interest than if you had just been given an extra loan. If this wasn’t explained to you by your agent (and I bet it wasn’t!) then you paid more interest than you should have.
- Also tell the Ombudsman if it was always your agent suggesting you borrow more, perhaps because it was getting near to Christmas, or in August when you might need more money for new school uniforms, or because you had paid off a lot of a previous loan.
A lender in your house should only offer a loan if you had asked them in writing for it. So if this happened to you, mention it in your complaint to the Ombudsman.
Send your bank statements and credit report
Send your bank statements with your complaint. If you haven’t got them all, send ones you do have and set about asking your bank for the rest, then send those. You are more likely to win a complaint if you send them, especially if you only had a few loans.
If you have borrowed for many years and the pile of statements would be HUGE, it’s still a good idea to get them all now, but you could then wait and see what the ombudsman asks for.
Don’t worry if your bank statements show a lot of gambling. The Ombudsman just accepts you have a gambling problem, you can still win these complaints.
Also get a copy of your free TransUnion Statutory Credit report and send it to the Ombudsman with your complaint. Don’t worry that you can’t get an old credit report – the Ombudsman knows this isn’t possible.
Do you have a current loan?
You can complain when you are still repaying a loan. If you tell the lender you want a payment arrangement, they should allow you to pay less each week over a longer period without adding any more interest.
But if you have other problem debts as well, talk to StepChange and they can see if a debt management plan would help.
You can also still complain if you are in a debt management plan. But don’t bother if you are in an IVA, bankruptcy or a DRo.
Need some help?
Your local Citizens Advice can help with these complaints.
You don’t need a lawyer or a claims company. They take a LOT of your refund and you can make a better claim on your own than they can. A good claim involves telling your own story, you know what happened and a claims company doesn’t!
Comments or questions?
Hundreds of readers have posted comments below about how their complaints are going and the successes they have had. If you have a question, ask it here!
Are you struggling to pay car finance?
Is your credit limit too high? Not affordable?
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Sharon says
Just heard back from fos they originally gave provident till 30th August to reply. I heard nothing so sent a couple of emails this week and received one back today from the mass claim consultant at fos saying they have sent provident a chaser and given them till 11th September why do they do this?? Has anyone experienced this I’ve waited nearly 2 years and provident don’t deserve any more time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I know it feels like FOS is giving in, but they can’t make Provident reply so their alternatives are to give them a bit longer or to put you in the queue for an Ombudsman decision which will be many months.
Angela says
Im in the same boat . Had the same email from FOS mass claims handler. Now in queue for ombudsman . Its 2 years for me also
Sharon says
Has anybody had any luck claiming affordability/irresponsible lending against Morses
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, a few people have had refunds directly, more through the Ombudsman. provident are about 10 times as big, which is why almost all the chat hear is about provident, but exactly the same applies to Morses.
Danielle says
I sent my complaint against provident to the ombudsman November 2018. I sent the subject access request provided by provident, bank statements, old credit file 4 years ago saved on my laptop and a current one from Noddle. Along with the decision letter from provident.
I had a email in April saying it was waiting to be reviewed by an adudicator but they had recieved further information from the business ( Provident).
25th July I recieved a preliminary decision from the ajudicator who agreed with my complaint. 19 out of 23 loans were deemed unaffordable and Provident should refund interest etc and remove from my credit file. The 4 loans that were not included were not because it was out of their jurisdiction, prior to April 2007.
The adjudicator gave provident until the 8th of August to reply and agree or disagree with more evidence why not.
Today I recieved an email to tell me it has been passed to the Ombudsman to look at because the business has not replied. They have given me 2 weeks to make any additional points and provide any further evidence if I wish to.
I will post an update once I get a final decision.
jimmy smith says
I feel it’s worth pointing out a balanced view to this article as I work in home credit and would like to point out the following.
1. All customers now have to sign a form to say they are requesting further credit to prove that the agent has not asked them to take out further loans, putting the responsibility for your own financial situation on the customer (if you cant afford, don’t ask, get HELP!)
2.All lending is voice recorded to prove their is no manipulation of affordability assessment
3.electronic signature after terms and conditions have been read out – so customer cant say they didn’t have time or understand the loan they were taking out.
4. All income has to be proven for every loan application and recorded as to capture a change in customers financial circumstances.
5. There are many happy home credit customers that rely on their loan and receive a great service from their agent
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes the FCA has made them clean up their act. Good! But:
1) most of the complaints here are about the long history of unaffordable lending in the past
2) “putting the responsibility for your own financial situation on the customer” the FCA and FOS will usually say that the greater responsibility is on the lender to ensure the loan is affordable. Some people don’t think very clearly about their expenses. Others are so desperate they deliberately understate them to get a loan. The lender is aware this may happen and should verify where necessary.
Chris says
Agents manipulate the recording element of the visit. Before the recording starts, they will make clear what the customer should say. With Provident, I received repeated emails telling me that I could apply for further funds. In addition, no enquiries were made by my agent about other indebtedness. Whenever I raised it, the answer was ‘No problem – it’s already in the system’.
Ann says
Shocking behaviour in the past from agents, and I’m hoping provident are made to pay out to my poor mum. Sitting in a cold house with her coat on trying to save on heating to afford her alcohol and feed her addiction (gladly sober now for a number of years) and the provident agent holding hundreds of pounds in cash in a fan in front of her saying ‘this could be yours, in your hands right now, all I need is your signiature and your payments won’t even go up, all your loans will be cleared and this will be yours to spend’
She was paying £59 A week in loans off £67 A week benefits money. I honestly don’t know how the agents slept at night knowing they were leaving people in that sort of situation. Yes she chose to sign the form… but why on earth was she allowed to? And the disgusting behaviour of the agents… this is just one example and one agent but I have many similar stories involving different agents so I know it’s not an isolated case.
I’m glad provident are being made to clean up their act, and I hope many many people get paid back a lot of money that will make a difference to their situation now
Weslie Ogilvie says
Home credit loans with extortionate interest are a legalised form of loan sharking. People often turn to home credit due to poor credit history. This is then took full advantage of with extortionate interest rates. No amount of form signing, paperwork or telephone calls can disguise the fact that it essentially preying on the financially vulnerable
Sarah says
Repeatedly lending to people you know are relying on home credit loans is quite an irresponsible way to be doing it! Anyone relying on a loan of a relatively small amount again and again is in no position to be lending in the first place really. At that point the loan is being treated almost as if it’s a source of regular income.
Why wouldn’t they be happy with the service from their agents when it’s the only place they’re able to get any service?
Why don’t home credit lenders incrementally lower the rates for those who pay off previous loans in full and on time? They’ll happily increase the amount they’re willing to lend the next time but not at a lower rate, despite advertising that keeping up with repayments can help to improve your credit score/rating.
Joy says
Ok, thanks for letting me know. I will address this matter as quick as possible
James Carrol says
Hi, I had lots of loans from Provident over the years, I complained to them in the first instance, about unaffordable/ irresponsible lending, they acknowledged my complaint, then totally ignored all other chase up emails I sent. I then sent my complaint to the FOS, this was around March 2018, I received a letter from the adjudicator on 30th August 2019, saying that he has agreed with my complaint, and upheld it, out of 23 loans, he says that loans 6 to 23 were unsustainable, and he recommends that Provident repay all interest and charges plus 8% on these loans, they have until 12th September to reply, but I am not holding out much hope for that. They are slow in responding, judging by the other comments here, I will keep you posted of any developments, thanks, James.
Joy says
I’ve just written my letter to them so i’ll wait and see. I think you’ll get a nice payout James. 23 loans definitely 👍
Weslie Ogilvie says
Im in a similar situation. Complained to provident april last year about irresponsible lending. They werent interested and kept saying theyd get back to me but never did. So went to FOS who after a year upheld my complaint and like you wanted all the interest paid plus 8% interest per year. Provident had until the 13th sept to respond but havent. You just have to keep chasing them but I’m positive I’ll get some money back. Debt camel was really helpful
Sharon says
I spoke to foc on Friday and they are giving provident about 5 weeks to reply befor they send it to ombudsman, I’ve had 2 dates now 30/8 and 11/9 but he said they will prob give them till end of September as they have a backlog then if no reply it goes on waiting list to ombudsman so still quite await as don’t think provident will agree with adjudicater
Lynette says
I put my complaint in to fos in August 2018 still not been allocated an adjudicator, have messaged again this week to see about timescales I’ve sent in pay slips and credit reports etc. Its a bit frustrating waiting but nothing ventured nothing gained.
Wayne says
Hi There. My claim was upheld by my adjudicator and advised I be refunded interest on 12 of the 14 loans I took with provident. They had until 22th of August to reply. I was told that I’ve now been put in the waiting list for an ombusman. Does anyone know the waiting list time length?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s going to be several months at least. I think there must be a lot of provident decisions stacking up… does your case involve loans over 6 years old?
Wayne says
7 months! That’s a disgrace. My 14 loans were taken out between 2010 and 2017. So the 12 that have been upheld are within 6 years of when I first complained. (Which was April 2018).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I said “several” not “seven”…
Angela says
My complaint sent to FOS in Sept 17 . Put in queue for ombudsman as Provident didnt respond to adjudicator discussion by beginning July. Looks like people are haven’t much longer to wait as Provident arnt agreeing with adjudicator 😟
Muchelle says
So my case is waiting to be seen by ombudsman after adjudicator upheld decision provident should payout on loans 6-21. I emailed for an update and was told – Please note that all Provident ‘home credit’ cases that are upheld on repeat lending are on hold. This includes priority cases. So god knows how long for !! Why are they on hold I wonder??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s interesting… does your case include some loans that are more than 6 years old?
Michelle says
Earliest is 2012
ste says
in reply to Muchelle…
“Please note that all Provident ‘home credit’ cases that are upheld on repeat lending are on hold. This includes priority cases.”
Crikey! ive been on “hold” for the last 2 years waiting for my complaint to be resolved :( Ive just been debating with myself, and can only think of 2 reasons why they are on hold
1) they are appealing the fca/fos rules and recommendations on repeat lending via the high court or something.
or
2) provident have had a telling off for their blanket rejections of late on adjudicators recommendations to issue refunds and management are reviewing their decisions.
Lets hope its number 2.
Dave says
Hi all,
Have received a final response from loans at home loans rejecting upto 33 loans. They range from 2007 to 2017.
They are claiming that loans from 2007-13 are time barred is this correct?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you send the case to the Ombudsman unless the refund they have offered for the 2013-17 loans is large enough that you feel it is a fair settlement of the whole complaint.
It’s the Ombudsman’s decision whether a complaint is within their time limits, not a lender’s. They are routinely looking at older loans for payday loans and Provident. I would hope they take the same approach for loans art home too.
dave says
they rejected the complaints regarding the loans from 2013 onwards too. from 2007 it shows clearly refinancing off loans over the 10 years
alison says
Please note that all Provident ‘home credit’ cases that are upheld on repeat lending are on hold. This includes priority cases.”
I have asked my adjudicator about this and his reply was……….I am not personally aware of this. All I can say at the moment is ive upheld your complaint and Provident have rejected it as they do not agree with our approach to repeat lending- but it is waiting to be allocated to an Ombudsman to make a final decision on………………..
ste says
the longer this is going on the more frustrating complaints like ours are getting :(
it makes you wonder who decides what the rules are, as clearly provident dont care what the FOS or FCA recommends.
Julie Clarke says
My thoughts exactly . I thought when an ombudsman or someone working for them said pay , provident had to do it . Still not replied to the adjudicators decision two months past the deadline and it’s gone up to ombudsman’s now. It’s clear provident think they are above the fos and fca and make their own rules . What is the point if they don’t do as they are told . I feel provident is laughing at them, because they don’t seem pressured at all .
Connor says
I feel your pain, like many others I’m waiting on providents response to my adjudicators decision, a month past the deadline, it’s like they’re laughing at the FOS and us.
As for an Adjudicators decision, surely this should have more weight behind it and be taken more seriously.
Nearly 2 years and if provident havnt got any thing to back up their case, nothing is going to materialise now….
They are a total joke.
alison says
It does seem that way Ste. If I got it for Christmas I would be happy. :) Even though I have no idea how much it is…..
Michelle says
Has anyone actually had the ombudsman agree with adjudicator and provi have had to pay up ???? And actually received a cheque from them ?
Debbie says
Hi I have had ombudsman agree with adjudicator but provident still not complying
Jolo says
How long did it take from adjudicator to ombudsman if you don’t mind me asking?
Debbie says
Hi jojo
It took 3 weeks then provident had 28 days to pay but have not heard anything from them as yet
Connor says
Hi Debbie,
Sorry to jump in, my adjudicator got back to me and said it’s now going to the ombudsman for a decision as provident haven’t replied to their decision.
So about 3 weeks? I thought it took months after being sent across, well that’s a bit better.
Hope you get what’s owed soon, well done
Nicky says
Hi Debbie
Mine is similiar, was in queue for Ombudsman and then provident came back with an offer, which i accepted. Have been told by fos that i should receive refund by Monday 23rd Sept. Telephoned provident ystdy for update and all they could say was i was to receive a letter by the 23rd and that no refund has been issued! Defo think something is going on.
Jolo says
Thanks.
I’m currently waiting for them to get back to adjudicator. Was ment to reply by 27th August but fos says there’s a delay of about 4/6wks so have said end of nxt wk they will send to ombudsman.
James says
I am worried that with all the delaying tactics employed by Provident, that even though the adjudicator has upheld my complaint, they will not pay, if the ombudsman tells them to pay out on a claim, by law, do they have to abide by the ombudsman’s decision ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes, an Ombudsman’s decision is legally binding.
alison says
I do think there is something going on with the rejection of all these adjudicator decisions. Provident have definitely got the upper hand at the mo. Its very frustrating but there is not a lot we can do :(:(:(
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I doubt Provident think they have the upper hand. They are probably feeling pretty worried by the number of decisions against them and the fact some of the refunds are very large.
emma says
hi if you go through a claims company against provident would it get sorted quicker
Sara (Debt Camel) says
No! If anything it goes slower as there is then an intermediary in the way and you can’t talk to the adjudicator at the Ombudsman directly. Plus the claims companies know nothing about your case, they just send the same email for everyone.
emma says
oh ok so i just wait and see what provident say. i put my claim in around 8 weeks ago but when i email them they never answer me. how long do they have to get back to you about your complaint
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Provident should give you a Final Response within 8 weeks. If they don’t, you can send the complaint to the Ombudsman at 8 weeks.
And you should do this. Provident are very slow and often don’t make a good offer anyway so your case has to go to the Ombudsman anyway, so get it there as fast as possible.
Julie Clarke says
Just got the blanket reply from fos. Just wait . Been waiting for years. No end in sight . 😞
Dear Mrs J Clarke
Thank you for your email.
At the moment this case is waiting to be reviewed by an ombudsman, who’ll issue a decision.
I’m unable to say how long it’ll take for the ombudsman to review your case, but we’ll make sure that as soon as there’s an update we let you know.
In the meantime, if you’ve got any further questions, please let us know.
Yours sincerely
Lisa Patrick says
Loans at Home for You are refusing on the grounds that my loans were in 2012 and too old!
Further, they even got my details (address and name wrong).
I am now going to the Ombudsman and ICC.
Crissy says
I put a compliant into Morses lending just had a reply they want me to send copy of my credit file ? I thought they could see that anyway every time they give a fresh loan ?
Has anybody ever won their case against Morses ?
Carrie says
Hi
I’ve recently won a complaint against morses club. It had to go to the fos though. It took around four months to be completed.I had to send some bank statements well quite a lot of bank statements actually and that was it.
Crissy says
Thanks I will do that glad to hear you won against them
James says
I emailed provident to get info for all loans I had since 2007, they said their records only go back to 2008, but my upheld complaint through the FOS adjudicator goes back to claims from 2007 ??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you ask FOS for a complete list of your loans and explain what Provident said to you.
Carrie says
Hi I am in the same position, provident has just emailed the FOS and offered me £9800 as a good will gesture, I am looking at 45 historic loans. I have till Friday to make a decision. I feel like I’m gambling £10000 or hope for up to £65000, has anyone else been in this position, what did you do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
have you added up how much interest you paid on all the loans? how old were they?
Carrie says
The £65000 is the interest on the loans, they were dated from 2007 to 2016, the adjudicator has upheld my complain but provident has rejected it, so now have until Friday to say whether I want to take the offer off provident or upscale to ombudsman.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Wow. I asked because I thought the 65k may have been the amount you paid Provident in total, including the capital repayments. And it would be a shame for you to be disappointed if the interest turned out to “only” be 30k…
So you may be worried about several things.
First Provident cases are very similar to payday loan affordability complaints. The regulatory requirements are the same for the lenders to check on affordability. Both can have prolonged periods of relending, extending over many years in large cases. Both can have customers feeling they are trapped with no way to get through the next month except a new loan or a refinance of an existing loan.
There have been a lot more payday loan complaints at FOS – tens of thousands – than Provident complaints and they started earlier, back in late 2015. So over the years FOS has developed a systematic approach to payday loan affordability complaints and it has published several key decisions as guidance for how it treats large complaints involving (a) what FOS calls “long chain loans”, a very long period of continuous borrowing and (b) explaining why it can consider loans over 6 years old.
I can’t think of any reason why the approach’s in those key decisions should not also apply to Provident loans in general. For your case both the long chain decisions and the over 6 year decisions are important.
Will the Ombudsman make the same decision as the adjudicator?
Across all FOS cases the Ombudsman makes the same decision in about 90% of cases. Payday loan affordability complaints are slightly different because decisions are couched in terms of the exact loans to be refunded, so it is more common for there to be a slight change in the number of loans refunded. So an Ombudsman may change “refund loans 5-16” to start from loan 3 (a larger refund) or loan 8 (a smaller refund). It is rare (from what I have seen) for the Ombudsman to reach a very different conclusion unless there are only a few loans. It is the cases where there are less then half a dozen loans where the Ombudsman could reject the complaint completely if the adjudicator had upheld a refund on loans 4 and 5, or order a refund on loans 3-5 if the adjudicator had rejected the complaint. In the very large loan cases, It is very, very rare for the Ombudsman to reach a very different conclusion (from what I have seen).
Also I don’t think your adjudicator just came into the office one morning, picked your case off the pile, wrote their decision and sent it to you. It is a good bet that because of the size of the case it will have been looked at by their manager or informally by an Ombudsman already.
So I think it is very likely you will get a very similar decision from an Ombudsman..
How long will it take?
This is trickier because what has happened before may not have any relevance. I think – and this is me guessing – that FOS will want to avoid Provident rejecting (or making much lower offers, as in your case) many adjudicator decisions and the cases piling up waiting for an Ombudsman decision.
That happened with Wonga and QuickQuid where there were prolonged disputes with FOS and the lenders’ lawyers about over 6 year loans. This time it’s not clear that there is anything for the lawyers to discuss – FOS is literally applying the same principles and approach that it has done in payday loan complaint where the regulatory background is the same.
I would hope that FOS will decide to get some big Provident cases through the Ombudsman level pretty quickly – by that I mean a few months, not a few weeks. Obviously I don’t know if your will be one of them.
After that Provident has to either give in and start accepting most adjudicator decisions or decide to take FOS to court for judicial review . The big payday lenders thought about this in 2017 and decided not to – probably their lawyers told them they would likely lose! Now Provident would not be challenging some new FOS decision, but well thought through approaches FOS has been implementing systematically for two years. So you would think Provident now would have even less chance of winning.
What if Provident goes bust like Wonga?
Provident is a much larger company, listed on the Stock Exchange. These affordability complaints may sound large but they are tiny for a company this size. The recent set of accounts merely mentioned “a modest increase” in complaints through Claims Companies.
emma says
hi provident have emailed saying they will not be upholding my complaint and only looked at 3 loans i had between 2015 to 2017 but i have had loads of loans from the 1990s up until 2017 on an off around 30 or more loans i have had from them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
you won’t be able to claim for any before 2007 but that sounds like there will be a lot of them, so send the case to the Ombudsman.
emma says
hi how do i send it to ombudsman please
ste says
easiest way to lodge a complaint is via online form on the financial ombudsman service website..
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/contact-us/complain-online
Julie Clarke says
Still waiting for ombudsman decision now on week 4. My question is if ruled in my favour does provident have to remove the adverse credit info on my credit file as of course I ceased paying them in 2017 when I started my claim and this is wrecking my credit score as showing as in arrears for thousands . The longer this goes on , it’s not over two years the more negative affect it has on my credit score . I can’t ebeb get a contract phone at the moment and provident is the only thing showing as in arrears . It’s so frustrating and unfair,
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In the vast majority (99% ?) of cases the Ombudsman says to remove negative marks for loans that decided to be unaffordable.
Jolo says
On my adjudicator decision it states that any info regarding these loans should be removed from my credit file so I’m guessing that if it goes to ombudsman and they agreed then they add hould be removed. Have you got your adjudicator decision leter/email. It should say it in there
Kay Thurstan says
My parents had these loans but sadly both have passed away. I am the executor of my mums will so can I claim for them?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you can.
Char says
SHOPACHECK
Hi, I have a query relating to loans with Shopacheck, who entered a scheme of arrangement and was bought by Morses. I had many loans with Shopacheck, and have an ongoing complaint with Morses who I took a lot of loans with also.
Morses are saying they cannot find any details of loans with Shopacheck pre March 2011, as the data was not sent (they say this is because the loans were paid off by myself). They gave me the contact details for Cattles (Shopacheck) who told me that Morses should have the details and they are have no data, and because of the scheme of arrangements, Morses should have the data.
I have been two and throw with them both, to no avail, and don’t know where to go next and which one should have my loan data.
Could you help?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
do any of the loans show on your bank statements?
Ann says
Have received an email stating my case has now been forwarded to ombudsman.
Has anyone had the decision from them and provident actually pay up?
My timeline has been this..
September 2017 raised initial complaint with provident
November 2017 raised complaint with ombudsman
Then a few ‘we are still dealing with your case’ type letters until
July 2019 adjudicator upheld tgat loans 4-14 Should be refunded etc, provident had til 29th August to respond
29th August I emailed to ask about progress, they said they were giving extra time due to caseload
23rd September the case has been forwarded to ombudsman for final decision
A long time to get to this level, and finally thought we were getting somewhere but it seems provident are sitting with their fingers in their ears going ‘lahlahlahlahlah’
Danielle says
This happened with myself. A few days after the ” It’s gone to the Ombudsman” email, I had an offer from Provident, via a claims handler. It was laughable, they offered to refund interest of 4 of the middle loans, really random. Two of the account numbers were duplicated and the Maths didn’t add up. Not that this impacted my decision! £1500 or £7000 I’ll hold out for the
Ombudsman.
I made the caseworker aware of the discrepancies in their Math and account numbers, so that the Ombudsman thoroughly checks any further figures before a decision is reached.
In my case I cannot see the Ombudsman having a different opinion to the Adjudicator. Infact, I am 99% sure a senior colleague ( Ombudsman) already looked at it. The decision at adjudicator level was so detailed and unless Provident have new evidence, they haven’t got a leg to stand on.
Basically, I got into trouble paying years in 2007 and they offered me a loan to consolidate the debt. Then my collector, who was a manager, offered me credit along side that. I had 4 loans running along side it. Then they kept offering until it got to big to pay. I know I can say no, but when your a single Mother and have no money for food or items for your child, no consequence is too big.
Angela says
Very similar time line to mine , put in queue for ombudsman in August 2019 , 2 years is a long time and still waiting. I did think I was getting somewhere in June when adjudicator upheld my complaint. Would love to know if anyone has actually received any payout from Provident
Julie Clarke says
Same with me 2 years . Provident had till end July to respond . Mine is quite a big payout on over 30 loans . Cud just do with the money in my pocket not Provident’s bank account . It has been at ombudsman level for two months now with no response cus there are so many going this far as provident refuse to reply to any decisions now it seems . It is frustrating to say the least .
Claire says
Hi
I am in the same situation as yourselfs complaint raised in January 2017 decision in my favour in August 2019 been chasing it up ever since with being no further forward. Apparently waiting for a lead decision
Have yous had any update?
Deb says
Well I’ve just had an email from the ombudsman yeyyy! I first complained to them in May 2018. So almost 18 months.
I had 12 loans and he’s said loans 4-12 were unaffordable, 1-3 were taken out before April 2007, so they can’t help with those.
He’s given provident until 8th October to respond.
Can anyone tell me what happens now? I’m reading that provident have more or less stuck their heads in the sand and are ignoring everyone. He says if they don’t respond by then an ombudsman May make a final decision based on the info they have.
I’m pleased it’s a step further and they’ve agreed the loans shouldn’t have been lent. He’s asked them to refund all interest and charges on loans 4-12 plus 8% interest.
Just imagine if provident said ‘yep we agree here’s your money’!
For those of you a bit further down the line than me, how much longer have I to wait for any outcome?
Thanks
alison cairns says
Hi Deb
This seems to be the sticking point for most of us on here. Adjudicator have asked them to pay x to x loans. Provident have either completely ignored or just disagreed with all findings. Several of us are now ‘in a queue’ waiting for an Ombudsmen decision. No one knows as to why Provident are doing this. Its seems these last few months they are completely dragging their heels and progress is slow/almost non existent :(
Deb says
Thanks Alison. As I thought, not REALLY any further on. At least now I know I’ve not been ignored and my complaint is valid. Back to waiting ……. 😊
josie says
Just an update on our two complaints with Provident. It’s been more than two years now. Our claims have been seen by an adjudicator back in July and both found in our favour. They were given three extensions each and Provident didn’t reply to any but Provident have been in touch with the Ombudsman to say they are behind with claims and the ombudsman should stop contacting them (I don’t know how they are getting away with this). I finally got an adjudicator to tell me it could be another year before I get my claims paid out as they are doing them in date order. Without going into a rant – I find this hard to believe as I know claimants that have been settled, started after my claim and did have loans over six years. Apparently the ombudsman is in discussion with Provident which doesn’t really tell us anything. I am just going to try and forget about them – maybe ring every six weeks to see on movement and make sure we are not forgotten about. It is disappointing though all the same.
Kerry says
I have recently made a complaint to provident for loans around 2008-2012. Can anybody tell me how long they initially take to make a decision? Will they get back to me within the 8 week timeline? Also, as most of the loans were done through paper contracts and I have not kept copies, how do I request my information from them as I sent an SAR request which they have not responded to.
Thanks.
Chris says
Provident took 8 weeks to get back to me only to say they could not resolve my complaint. A further 6 weeks later, they sent me a final email rejecting my complaint. However, after 8 weeks, you are allowed to send to the FOS. Reading comments on here, Provident are VERY slow indeed so your complaint is likely to take a considerable amount of time to come to a final ruling. I am not sure paper contracts (without any digital back up) fall into GDPR regulations but, in any case, they must legally reply to your SAR request within 1 month. Otherwise, tell them you will report them to the Information Commissioner’s Office – that usually gets things moving.
alison cairns says
I got a letter from Lowell other day (they bought the Provident debt). Anyway all through the 2 years of this going on – Lowell have sent letters regularly – ‘statement of account’ showing my outstanding amount – despite me advising that this was with the ombudsman from day one.
Anyway this letter didn’t have the Provident amount on. As there was an outstanding amount – Provident were advised to buy back the debt by the Adjudicator.
It may be just coincidence – but are things moving behind the scenes as such ?……………. Im in a queue for the Ombudsman after Provident did not agree with the adjudicator. Just seems strange this amount has disappeared from Lowells statement -finally – heres hoping eh :):):):):)
Debora Colman says
Yes I’m the same the adjudicated also upheld my claim against provident . They have also advised provident to buy back the debts and clear my credit score too . The provident offered me a partial settlement which for them must have stung like hell ! I declined the offer . I’m awaiting the next step as the adjudicator sent them bid findings in my favour . Fingers crossed
alison cairns says
Really hope this is a sign that something is happening. I know theres no update from Adjudicator – as he keeps in touch regularly. But I assume Provident have bought back the debt for this to have vanish from the Lowell Statement.
James says
Hi Debora
I have been waiting for 6 weeks for Provident to respond to the adjudicator decision on my reddress, could I ask when did your adjudictor uphold your complaint ? & how long after did provident take to respond with a partial offer ?
Thanks
James
Debora Colman says
The provident offered me a settlement figure before the adjudicators decision. In all about 6 weeks . Now I’m waiting on the provident coming back with their response to the financial ombudsman!
Guy says
Thought i only had 12 loans but got email saying adjudicator recommends refund of interest and charges of loans 4-25 from pre 2015 , waiting for provident response. I expect no response from provy from what ive read then a wait to hear from ombudsman .
Elaine says
I am at the adjudicator stage upholding my complaint and ordering Provident to repay interest, I have 1 loan with Lowell and repaying it back on a debt management plan and they have been told to buy it back and repay that as well, do you think I should take it off my DMP or wait for Provident to buy it back as I am still paying it every month.
Guy says
2 QUESTIONS. My brother sent his complaint to the fos 2 months before me, we have similar claims including the amount of loans , the years we got the loans and our circumstances. Mine has been looked at by an adjudicator and a decision been made in my favour, my brothers hasnt even been allocated an adjudicator yet . Q1. Does the adjudicator pick complaints up at random as my brother put his in 2 months earlier than mine. Q2 Once picked up does the adjudicator have a time frame per complaint. Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Q1. Does the adjudicator pick complaints up at random as my brother put his in 2 months earlier than mine.
No. But there are other steps along the way. There will have been an investigator whose job it was to ask provident for the case file. If that ask was delayed. or if the provident case handler went on holiday, or if there was some reason why it was more difficult for Provident to get your brother’s file (perhaps your agent had better paperwork?) then this could have delayed Provident sending back their case file.
Q2 Once picked up does the adjudicator have a time frame per complaint.
No. They probably expect to be able to resolve x% of simple complaints within y days, but there is no “12 days and counting” type target.
Bill says
Looking for some advice. I have had two complaints against both Provident and Greenwoods for loans dating back to 2007 upheld by the FOS Adjudicator, in total these loans total more then £13K in interest. After reading comments on the page I have went from elation to fear.
Could anyone advise the most likely outcome when Provident appeals these to the FO, I am likely to see any payment from Provident and if so how long is the process likely to take.
James says
first you have to wait for provident to come back with their thoughts, this could take 6-10 weeks, if they accept then happy days (unlikely), if they don’t then off to the ombudsmen 3-6 months roughly.. but good news is Ombudsmen 90% of the time agrees with the adjudicator and what they say is final… to me it seems provident will delay it aslong as they possibly can, my adjudicator made a decision on mine 6.5 weeks ago .. yet to hear from provident,… with your adjudicator upholdng your claims there is a very strong chance you will get your payout aslong as provident dont go bust… which they shouldn’t given how big they are.. just gotta be patient from what i’ve seen they’re easily the worst lender to deal with they just wont bother sending anything.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Provident seems to have recently stopped accepting adjudicator decisions. They can’t carry on doing this. I suspect the ombudsman and the FCA (Provident’s regulator) will be getting tired of this and will be pointing out the rules to provident.
They aren’t in any financial trouble, they are a huge company, This is tedious but you should be fine in the end/
Do you still have a loan outstanding?
Bill says
I still have 3 outstanding loans totalling just over 2k, stopped paying after submitting complaint to FOS
CHRISTINE says
Has anyone had any kind of refund of Provident? I have just had my complaint upheld by adjuticator, 12 out of 16 loans shouldn’t have been given to me. They have given Provident 14 days to respond their answer has to be in by the 15 October.
James says
This will take 8-10 weeks for provident to reply, they will likely reject the claim when they finally reply too … frustrating.
Deb says
Then what? I don’t know how they’ve the audacity to argue with the FOS!!
My 2 weeks are up on the 8th October but I’m not holding my breath.
Nicky says
Update
Finally recieved refund from provident! Took them longer than they said it would, so in all just short of 6weeks instead of there usual 4 weeks to get the payout. Ended up with them bank transfering refund.
Hang in there everyone, its been a long time from start to finish, but worth it.
Goodluck to all still waiting.
Deb says
Hi Nicky
How long is it some you first heard from the ombudsman that they agreed with you? Provident have until 8th October to come back to the ombudsman on my case with either more evidence or an argument as to why they disagree with his findings.
I’m sure they won’t stick to that date so I wondered how much longer I’ll have to wait?
It’s great to hear you’ve been paid out though, that’s quite a positive thing for the rest of us waiting!
Nicky says
Hi Deb
Provident had until end of July to reply to adjudicator, they didnt respond. Got email 2nd week in August to say time was up and it was going in queue for Ombudsman. Then out of blue my adjudicator phoned me on 27th August to say provident had made an offer and i accepted. Was told i would recieve cheque by 23rd September and that didnt happen!. Seems they are taking longer to make payouts too!
Hang in there. It will be worth the wait. My adjudicator has been great and kept me informed whenever i emailed him and kept on at the business until i got payout.
Goodluck!
CHRISTINE K says
I am glad to hear someone has finally had a payout. If you don’t mind me asking but I am interested in what percentage was the offer to what the full refund should have been. My refund would be between 15K to 18K that includes the 8% interest. I would be willing to accept an offer if it’s on the table but no lower than 10K.
Nicky says
Hi Christine K
According to letter i got from provi, it seems a full payout was made on all loans that adjudicator upheld. Complaint was upheld on 28th June but had no response at all from provi. I was told my case was then put in queue for final desicion from Ombudsman and could take some time. Then out of blue i got a fone call from adjudicator on 27th August saying provi had made an offer. Finally received full payout on 4th October from provi.
Hope this information helps and wish everyone on here the best of luck with your complaints.
CHRISTINE K says
Hi Nicky, thanks for the reply. I have got my fingers crossed here for myself and everyone else. I made my complaint to Ombudsman on 2nd May 2018, got a adjudicator appointed on the 1st October 2019 and a decision from adjudicator on the 2nd October 2019 (lucky day as on same day my grandson was born lol) now just waiting to see if Provident respond, they have till the 15th October. Would be nice to get a payment before xmas.
Angie says
To Nicky,
This gives me some hope but mine is very big (I paid over £15000 in interest) so that may be the reason Provident won’t agree. Now 4 months since adjudicator decision.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t think Provident will be rejecting decisions just because they are large. That may be why they don’t like them, but there has to be some specific angle they can argue the decision is “wrong”.
To challenge an ombudsman’s decision, ultimately a lender has to take FOS to court for a special sort of case called a “judicial review”. This doesn’t consist of a judge looking at a complaint and making a decision on it. The review is just to consider whether FOS had approached the cases fairly. eg if FOS hadn’t explained its decision to the lender or listened to the lender’s argument, or it was so bad that that no rational person looking at the evidence would have made that decision, or that it was a sort of case FOS was not allowed to make a decision about.
Here are two possible reasons I guess Provident could be arguing about:
1) they don’t think the ombudsman should be looking at loans over 6 years
2) they don’t like the ombudsman’s approach to what FOS call “long chain lending” – continuous lending / refinancing over a long period.
Of course in many cases these overlap – the very long periods of lending often inlude loans ovet 6 years. And they are also the cases where the refunds are the largest. But the arguments are different.
I don’t think they will get anywhere with (1).
This is a “jurisdiction” argument – can FOS look at these cases? The FOS rules say “within 6 years” but they also say “or within 3 years if a person has just found out they can complain”. (Those aren’t the exact words used.) That why so many very old PPI complaints have been accepted.
FOS has looked at this in detail for payday loans. Several payday lenders considered challenging FOS in court over this and they all backed off – probably because their lawyers told them they would lose! For payday lenders that have gone bust (Wonga, Wageday Advance) the Insolvency Practitioners who wind up the companies are accepting claims for loans over 6 years because of the FOS approach.
It is also being applied to other sorts of high cost lending – guarantor loans, Brighthouse etc. It is very hard to think why Provident should be any different.
2) is not a “jurisdiction” argument. Provident would have to argue the decision was wrong because it was irrational or for some other reason. The FCA, Provident’s regulator, has been clear that repeat lending and refinancing loans over a long period needs adequate checks that the repayments are affordable. It is difficult for Provident to show that these checks were made in many cases – hence so many people getting good adjuidcator decisions.
So I don’t think either 1) or 2) is a good argument. And I am not sure what else provident could be arguing.
Karen says
Hi all
I put a claim in with provident in November 2017 in 2018 provident told me they sent a final response out in February 2018 i never received that letter so I asked for provident to send the final response by email witch they did in October 2018…..i did take it to the ombusman but it was too late to take it on but according to the ombusman they asked provident to see on the postal system did the letter for the final response go out to me and I was told it did go out….i didnt get that finale response letter….So I asked for all the recordings from provident I made from 2017 to 2019….before provident told me they sent the final response out I have it on recording that the complaint was not done yet and no updates done as yet that was on the 2rd or 4th February 2018 but my response was done on the 9th February 2018 and was sent out according to there postal system..
I made another complaint again about this as someone from provident was looking into this for me as they think it could have been across over with me moving address but I had not heard nothing I got another response saying they have no recordings of me talking to this person from provident at there end but I have the recordings of me and the person from provident haveing the conversation by phone I have took this other response to the ombusman again
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds complicated but if you have some recordings that prove what Provident are saying is wrong, the Ombudsman should be very interested!
Gareth says
Hi all, like you folk I too have had and open complaint against prov for over 3 years now had an email at end of June, stating they had looked at my case again, and upheld in my favour the fos gave them until the 4th of July to respond (which they didnt) then gave them until 3rd of Aug which they took until the 6th to reply. Completely disagreed with adjudicator so it went into the queue for and ombudsman…..again lol.
Phoned at middle and end of August and got told that it was being prepared to pass on so left it at that rang 1st week of Sept for update to say it was likely to get to an ombudsman in the next 3 weeks.
Later that day had and email stating that it will be longer than 3 weeks as the FO are working on some sort of prov only thing and it won’t be moving until that is sorted.
Can anyone shed any light on the prov only thing they referred to because honestly I’ve had enough of being fobbed off by FO. Super frustrating as I could finally see light at the end of the tunnel only for it to stop dead in its tracks again, for reasons that couldn’t be explained to me lol.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Gareth. I have made some guesses about this in answer to Angie above.
Where FOS encounters a big push back from a lender, it is usually better to try to resolve the problem by discussions with the lender. Explaining why decisions are being reached and ensuring all the lender’s questions are answered. Just taking every case through to an ombudsman decision isn’t a feasible approach as it would take too long.
I hope FOS has learned the lessons from the huge delays and queues that resulted from the prolonged 6 year arguments with payday lenders. My guess is that this sort of situation will not be allowed to develop again – some test decisions will go through then Provident will have to go to court about them or give in and pay out.
Julie Clarke says
So still not heard anything . How can this take two years to sort . Owed 5 figure sum. I’m sure If it was the other way round and I owed them ( it’s still on my credit file ) it wud be phone calls every day . Would love to have my refund by Christmas , which is with ombudsman not that it makes any difference to provident who has never replied to adjudicators decision three months ago. Same reply from fos . Can’t say how long it will be as there is a big queue . Getting really frustrated now .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
See my replies to Angie and Gareth above.
Michelle says
So mines been waiting to be assigned to an ombudsman since July after adjudicator ruled in my favour. I sent an email chasing it up and this was their response. If anyone has a clue what it means , let me know lol
Thank you for your email dated 3 October 2019.
Your complaint is still waiting to be assigned to an ombudsman. Before this can happen, we’re waiting for the lead decision to go out on a particular issue that affect a large number of cases like yours.
As this issue affects many cases, there’s a risk that the businesses could challenge the decision through the courts. Because of this, lead decisions tend to be very long and detailed, and require a large amount of time and work to prepare and complete.
We have your case flagged on our list for priority decisions, and it will be given to the next available ombudsman once everything is finalised. We don’t know when that will be, but regrettably it probably won’t be in the very near future and is more likely be in a matter of months.
???
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Read my reply to Angie above.
This email you have got from your adjudicator may have seemed baffling, but it was trying to be helpful about what is happening.
When there is a major disagreement between a firm and FOS that affects a lot of cases, it doesn’t make sense for FOS to try to force them all through to Ombudsman decisions. This would take too long because FOS only has a few Ombudsmen compared to the number of adjudicators.
So instead FOS goes for a “lead decision” on a subject. FOS has published a few of its lead decisions for payday loans,
eg https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/17784/payday-loans_time-limits_final-decision-lender-D.pdf for loans over 6 years
and https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/17803/payday-loans_series-of-loans_final-decision-lender-B.pdf for a long chain of loans
As your email says – and as the two examples I have just given show – these lead decisions are long and very carefully argued. FOS is trying to show the lender that FOS has been fair and considered all of their arguments and has looked at the law and regulatory situation when the loans were given in detail.
FOS’s main aim here is for the lender to give in and start accepting adjudicator decisions in straightforward cases. If the lender goes to court for a judicial review, this detail will all show the court how carefully FOS has looked into the problem.
At a guess (and the rest of this is me guessing what is going on behind the scenes!) FOS has picked a few possible cases as lead decsions and is now getting one of them finalised. That decision will go to Provident (and to the customer, who may well be surprised to get a 30 page decison letter!) for comment and then will become a Final Decision. At that point Provident has to either:
– go to court for a Judicial Review
– give in and start accepting all similar cases
– give in on that case but tell FOS it may still decide to dispute a different case. In this event FOS will issue a lead decision on its next selected case. etc
Sarah Docherty says
Hi Sara.
I do hope this email finds you well.
I have been following alot of your stories and it has helped me out with regards to refunds, complaints etc.
This company is not one I’m sure you will know, however I recently sent a complaint to FORTH FINANCIAL SERVICES (FIFE) who are just like Provident in my area. I was in so much debt towards the end and had lost my job, I informed my agent at this time and unfortunately my only way out was to declare myself bankrupt, they proceeded to provide me with a CCJ after had I had been awarded bankruptcy. I have since queried this with Creditscore and they require me to send my discharge letter to them.
However, I have sent off my complaint via email and as of yet, I have had no response at all 1 week after sending it. Do you think this company will acknowledge and if they don’t, should I proceed with the normal procedure to complain to the FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Hi Sarah,
How long after your bankruptcy was the CCJ?
Are you living in Scotland?
Julie Clarke says
So after asking for an update from fos I have been given the template reply regarding the lead case and how a decision could be months still. Seems everything on hold for many due to this and provident is again in the driving seat and doing things at a snail pace. Very vague email basically saying u have to wait still.
ste says
so it looks like a redress before xmas is unlikely :(
ive been waiting for a senior ombudsman to be assigned since june. bloody provvy
Keely says
Good afternoon guys!!
So. i just need some advice. Provident rejected my complaint in July 2019, so i sent it to the fos on the same day as i dont agree with it. they gave me the whole ‘you completed forms with your agent etc’. when in actual fact, the agent completed it for me and i just signed, i was in a debt bubble, taking out more loans to pay off others. the usual sad story i hear from many people.
for the last 5 weeks, ive had nothing from the fos, as an email with my reply letter and SOA didnt get attached to my file!!! yes i know.
How long are peoples complaints taking etc?
I still have an outstanding debt with provident that i am paying off after it was sold to a debt collection company as my credit report cannot take anymore of the battering.
Thank you all xxxx
Lisa G says
Hi Keely,
I complaint to Provident in July 2018, they rejected in Aug 2018. Sent to FOS in Oct 2018 (I waited until I had bank statements to send with it etc).
I got an email last week from an adjudicator to say she will start to look into it. Haven’t heard anything since.
Get ready for a long wait.
John says
Hi there I done same except no statements just sent fos the reply I got back from provident. It took approx 6 months for it to be finalised at end it was well worth it got over 10k back . Hang in there the first contact I got back from fos was saying they were upholding my complaint which was about 4 or 5 month after initial contact to them .
Also phone fos make sure they have your completed complaint
Angela says
Most people on here seem to have been waiting for a couple of years from first complaining to FOS and then still waiting for ombudsman after Provident rejected adjudicator discussion. Be prepared for a long wait
Olivia says
We have been waiting for two cases since 4th September 2017, both have been won in August with adjudicator findings after taking 23 months to go through jurisdiction. Provident have not responded and asked the ombudsman to stop asking them when they would be looked at and now the FOS will not tell us anything – we ring once every three weeks for updates. I am expecting it to be another year before payout realistically. Good luck with your cases.
alison cairns says
‘ I think all I can really say is we have a large number of cases which Provident have disagreed with, because of this we are still considering our approach to these types of cases, which is why its taking a bit longer than normal. Once that has been done we will see if its something Provident agree with, or if they still disagree – at which point we will know more’…………………
Email from my Adjudicator today……………….
Guy says
That sounds as if FOS are letting provident bully them, so they are thinking of ways to appease them, sort of ” I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine ” in other words “we will disagree with some cases if you pay some out” it’s not just provy that needs their backside kicking, it’s FOS aswell.!!!! Getting really annoyed at FOS. They are so weak and I hope they read this.
Julie Clarke says
I just wish that they would stick to the same story . Everytime I ask for an update it is a different person or team with another excuse why they are waiting for provident for information or a blanket case . Just tell the truth . Everyone seems to be told different too . Does the FOS actually have a plan ? I can’t get a straight answer even from a manager or senior ombudsman
Sara (Debt Camel) says
This must feel very frustrating. But the recent comments here have been consistent with what I described here: https://debtcamel.co.uk/refund-doorstep-loans/comment-page-10/#comment-320818.
“we are still considering our approach to these types of cases” this is correct if they are talking to Provident about its concerns and writing a lead case.
“Once that has been done we will see if its something Provident agree with, or if they still disagree – at which point we will know more’” that is what I described – FOS will put out a lead case, setting out the reasons they think these loans should be refunded and responding to any points on that case provident have made. Then Provident has to agree, pay oput, or go for judicial review.
“my case is with a special team who are in talks with provident.” that is what I would expect. FOS will be in talk with Provident. FOS will want to make sure it has listened to all the objections and considered if any are valid.
“some people are being told don’t how long to resolve, some weeks, some months” if you ask someone’s opinion, they may give slightly different answers. It sounds to me as though adjuicators are tyrying to be helpful. If you want total consistency, all adjudicators will read the same short two sentences saying that cases are being considered and it isn’t known how long that will take.
Alison says
I’m not too bothered about the time it’s taking (as such – of course would be nice )….. but is this good news for us waiting ????? Or is there something provident can come up with to have these decisions overturned ?? I think that’s the issue most are worried about
Alison says
Could a lot of decisions be over turned ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well obviously I don’t know what arguments Provident are making to FOS.
I have made a guess (see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refund-doorstep-loans/comment-page-10/#comment-320525) that they are either arging about jurisdiction – FOS’s right to look at loans over 6 years old – or something about the way FOS treats long chains of loans. In most big cases, both these factors are involved.
The over 6 year loan issue was argued to death by Wonga and QuickQuid’s lawyers and those two firms decided not to go to court over it. Now Wonga, Wageday Advance, the Money Shop have all gone undeer, the Insolvency Practioners in all those cases will have talked to their lawyers and they have decided to just accept claims about over 6 year loan cases without disputing them. If Provident are trying to argue they are different, I have no idea how or why.
The FCA has treated doorstep lending differently from payday loans in some respects. It says: “Repeat borrowing and multiple borrowing is clearly a prevalent feature of home-collected credit use. We do not consider that this in itself is harmful.” but it says in the next sentence (this is all from https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/consultation/cp18-12.pdf) that: “Providing creditworthiness assessments are carried out effectively, weekly repayments should be affordable and sustainable.”
And FOS’s decisions to uphold a customer’s complaint are based on Provident not having made adequate creditworthiness assessments. i am not sure how Provident can argue its way out of that.
So I’m not that worried about this. I hope FOS gets a move on and gets some lead decisions published so Provident will have to put up or shut up. But this is just me guessing!
Lisa G says
Hi Sara, all,
Thought I’d give you an update on where my complaints are with the FOS;
WON at FOS: QuickQuid – Complaint 13/07/18. FOS on 20/10/18. 16/07/19 FOS accepted loans 3-6 to be refunded. Have until 23/07/19 to respond. QQ are still arguing loans are over 6 years old. Case in queue to be reassessed.
WON at FOS: Satsuma – Complaint 10/07/18. Rejected on 06/08. FOS on 20/10/18. Loans 5-9 to be refunded. Have until 30/07/19 to reply. Waiting for Satsuma to respond.
WON at Ombudsman: My jar – Complaint 01/08/18. FOS on 26/09/18. Adjudicator rejected my claim. In queue for ombudsman on 18/07/19. Ombudsman rules loan 3 irresponsible on 08/10/19. MyJar have until 21/10/19 to respond. I’d like to thank you Sara for this one particularly, you advised me to take this to the Ombudsman because the 3rd loan was £3600, a big jump from my previous £400 loan.
WON at FOS: Provident – Complaint 16/07/18. FOS on 20/10/2018. FOS in my favour on 11/10/19. Loans 2, 7, 8 & 9. Have until 01/11/19 to respond.
As yet I haven’t received a refund from an FOS ruling but pleased they’re in the pipeline.
My big ones with Wonga, Wageday Advance and The Money Shop, totalling near 15K in interest for all 3 will be a small refund, but better in my pocket than theirs.
Still waiting for my 118 118 and everyday loan complaints to be picked up by an adjudicator. Have been with the FOS since Oct 2018.
Guy says
Hi Lisa, do you know wage day advance are only paying between about 4.5 -5.3 percent of what they admit they owe? I’m owed £2,700 but will get about £100, absolutely demoralising.
Lisa G says
I do. Mine was in the region of £1000. I know it’s small, but we can’t help what we can’t control… as disappointing as it is. But whatever the small amount, it’s better than nothing. That’s my point.
gillian says
just a update on my provident claim it has now been with the fos for 13 months since beging of sept 2018 there are 12 loans all together in 2 years 9 of them were in 2011 to 2012 so just fall over 6 years the other 3 are in 2012 I rang the fos yesterday and was informed they have all the information they need but my case as not been assigned a adjudicator yet and they do not know when it will be so looking like a while before any outcome just a bit frustarated that they have all they need but it as not even been looked at yet after 13 months but thanks to sara and this site I am now debt free and no longer struggling month to month so I can wait I must say in all my other cases the fos looked into they upheld all of them and they were very quick and straight forward so thinking like sara says they must be a problem with provident objecting
CHRISTINE K says
Hi,
just wondering if anyone would agree this being worth it……naming and shaming on social media. I’ve seen reviews on Trustpilot. So many people have been ‘had’ by Provident and other ‘payday lenders’ most at their most vunrable time in their lives when they had no one else to turn to. Those companies have took advantage of people simply because they could. Yes, we did take out those loans but like me to keep a roof over our heads and look after our families, that should give anyone the right to take advantage knowing full well that if you in that bad of a situation you grasp at anything, not realising that you are being taken for a ride because all you can think of at that moment is ‘thank god now I can pay the rent for a week or go shopping for food. It may not be exactly like that for some but I believe for most of us. I am for one am grateful for the opportunity that we have with the help of the Ombudsman service to claim some money back. I know it is taking forever, but I truly believe that that is only down to the companies we are dealing with and on the top of that list is Provident. They should not be able to get away with prolonging, turning down desicions and so on. There must be a way that would put pressure on them to finally get their act together, i.e. Social media, Press, local TV stations. Sorry about the rant, but thought I throw the idea into the open.
alison cairns says
Its very frustrating – especially when people have had their cases upheld by the FOS. But to be honest I doubt theres anything that will speed things up right now. Theres a fair few of us on here waiting. :(
Chris says
My case was rejected by Provident so I have sent it to the FOS. Obviously a long wait ahead. The debt is with a DMP so I actually replied to the rejection by saying that I was perfectly happy to pay back the capital sum and I wanted them to simply to drop the interest. Needless to say, I got no reply!
Jamie says
Hi there,
Looking for any info you may have.
My case against Provident was agreed by an adjudicator about 8 weeks ago and sent to Provident. However, 8 weeks on there is no news and Provident are saying they have people issues hence are being slow (need to recruit/train etc).
The FOS say they normally give 1-2 weeks to reply but have agreed with provident to let them have more time (with a load of cases).
Does anyone know what the current wait time is for a “ruling” sent by the adjudicator to provident to then be actioned? FOS are saying I can get this passed on to an actual Ombudsman but I think this takes more time.
Cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Have a read back through some recent comments and my replies to them. There seems to be a big FOS/Provident issue at the moment.
Jolo says
Hi I had my decision at end of july and they gave prov till end of August to reply. No response from them so went to ombudsman queue on 1st Oct. Rang for a update last Fri and was told prov had now got bk to them but disagreed so will just have to twiddle thumbs and wait. Got told it can take up to 6 months but some are getting done quicker and no mention of the test case or anything like that.
Jude says
I have sent a complaint to fos, in which an adjudicator has then agreed in my favour but after no response from the business they have sent this to the ombudsman. However they have sent me an email acknowledging my complaint with a totally different company and it’s addressed to a different customer. Not holding my breath!
CHRISTINE K says
So yesterday (15th October 19) was the date given to Provident to respond to adjudicators decision, and as everyone can guess I heard nothing. Well I did not expect anything the day after judging by the hundreds of comments. I would just like to ask Sara, those ‘lead cases’ she mentioned a bit further up the chain were all from mid 2018, so how come they need more now, as by the look of things even after those things had not happened with Provident. I am just so immensely frustrated that a company can get away with so much without being investigated FCA or whoever has the power to put things right. Obviously they have been doing wrong for so long, how come they still get away with it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Those lead cases were all payday loans.
Some of the regulations around doorstep lending are different from payday loans. I don’t think they are different in any ways that are significant, which is why I am not that worried about this. But I think (and this is all me guessing!) that FOS will want to do full lead decisions for doorstep lending, so provident can’t accuse FOS of not taking the right rules and regulations into account.
CHRISTINE K says
Thank you Sara for clarifying this. I hope people will see results soon. I honestly can’t understand how Provident gets away with this.
James says
Hi, I got an email from adjudicator today regarding my complaint against provident. They are experiencing severe delays, and needing to hire more staff, they are also dealing with the claims by age, since my complaint is only about 18 months old, he says I will have a long wait, but will be in touch at some point If there are any developments.
Guy says
Hi James, don’t believe that they are doing things by age, it took mine 9 months from first complaint to adjudicators decision, my brother hasn’t even got an adjudicator assigned yet
after 14 months, we have the same complaint and he put his in 2 months before me, i have somehow caught him up and overtaken him by some distance, and there are so many cases with different time scales. Some have taken 6 months, some 3 years, all with similar complaints.I believe the fos is utterly incompetent and is in chaos, it’s a free for all with cases picked at random.
Jolo says
Hi james
Mine went to the fos in November last year and I got a adjudicator decision at the end of july so only 8 months. In which case if they were going by date order I should of been way behind you.
Donna says
I have been rejected my complaint by loans at home I am still struggling to pay I have sent the final response to financial ombudsman but I have received a text to day they the office has told my agent he has to come and see me at my home tomrro I don’t know what to as my anxiety is starting to go back through the roof any chance of what I can say please
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You could tell the office that you have sent the complaint to FOS and either say you won’t be making any payments until the complaint is resolved or offer a low amount you can afford each month. say because of your mental health you do not want any calls from an agent and will not let them in.
Donna says
Ok thank you I will ring the office in the morning thanks
CHRISTINE K says
I have received this email yesterday from my adjudicator………..Provident are experiencing significant delays and we are aware they have brought on some additional staff to help with their backlogs. To offer some reassurance, Provident are a business that are usually good at corresponding with us and they have kept us up to speed about their circumstances. This doesn’t mean we would wait indefinitely for a reply however, we would look to move the complaint to ombudsman if we feel they are non-communicative or they let us know they disagree.
When I sent my view, I asked the business to respond by 15 October 2019 and I have given them up to the first week of November to get back to me. Furthermore, Provident may come back and accept my view and I am mindful Ombudsman queues currently have no timescale, meaning it may be several months before you receive a decision. For this reason, I have given the business the additional time to get back to us.
Gail l says
Hi. My complaint with them should have been responded to by 5th sept. They finally responded yesterday and accepted what the adjudicator said. They are really behind. The Financial Ombudsman will keep reminding them that they need to respond
samantha given says
The adjudicator gave provident till 27th August to respond to mine and I’m still waiting for a response. They told me they are going in date order but that really doesn’t seem the case. Maybe you have a really good adjudicator but some of them don’t seem bothered. Just the standard same reply x
Gail l says
I rang Provident every week.They kept telling me a pack of lies so I made another complaint. Maybe that’s why it got dealt with. I also rang the Financial Ombudsman for updates. I know they are really busy.
Sharon says
Can I ask why you rang provident each week? Was it to ask them to respond to adjudicator x
Gail l says
Just to keep the pressure on them.
I complained to Provident first for irresponsible lending. Then it went to the Financial Ombudsman. The adjudicator told them what they should do and Provident have agreed with the adjudicator.
I complained again as they kept telling me they had replied to the Financial Ombudsman and they hadn’t.
They have agreed with everything that the adjudicator has proposed.
They will be sending me a cheque within the next 28 days
Julie lee says
I have also had a reply saying they gave them till 11th of september my complaints been ongoing since June 2018 it’s getting a bit of a joke now although the fos are in my favour I am not giving up I will wait it out I sent them an email otherday to see what was happening as its just going on and on no response as yet
CHRISTINE K says
When we do and don’t charge
You won’t need to pay a case fee for the first 25 complaints against your business that we deal with in each financial year. From the 26th complaint onwards, we charge a case fee of £550.
If a case does need to be investigated, it becomes a chargeable case, regardless of the outcome.
Most businesses have very few cases referred to us, meaning that most businesses don’t pay any case fees. For businesses that do pay case fees, the cost involved is likely to be much less than the legal costs of defending the case in court.
When you have to pay the case fee
The fee is only payable once the complaint is resolved. Our finance team will send you an invoice at the end of the month in which we close the case……..<<<<< found this on the Ombudsman website. Could this be a reason why Provident are stalling???????
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I doubt it. They are more likely to be concerned about the number of payouts they are making that over £10,000. I have seen a few over £20,000 and one over £50,000…
CHRISTINE K says
Thanks Sara, question is are they actually making any payouts? There seem to be very few that actually getting a refund as Provident is not responding at all. Is there really no way that anyone can put any pressure on the company.? I am starting to loose faith with the Ombudsman service as they seem to be really easy going on Provident. I think Provident is counting on complaints going to Ombudsman as that seems to take forever to be passed over due to the actual number of Ombudsmen hence final desicions and refunds will take forever and I honestly think that is why Provident is stalling.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well Gail has just had hers accepted.
I know someone else had a payout a few weeks ago – that was very large :)
FOS isn’t being easy-going – it is trying to find the fastest way to sort out hundreds of complaints.
Crissy says
Hi
I was wondering if anybody has had any complaint against morses club upheld ?
Ross says
I have. All loans refunded plus interest. Adjudicators decision was accepted within 2 weeks and I had the cash within 4 days.
Crissy says
That’s a great outcome ! I’m still waiting for a decision of them. Made up for you !
Ross says
It’ll come. They’re actually quite good at replying. The issues arise with very old loans back when it was welcome finance. They are part of the scheme which means you can’t put in claims against them. All mine were 2012 onwards.
bruce seaton says
I would like to not if its actually worth pursuing Provident, as I contacted them probably last year, after seeing the threads, I wrote the template letter, copy and pasted it into the message box on the provident contact page,as advised to do so on here, and I got absolutely no reply at all. I let it go thinking its a waste of time, then I thought yesterday,okay I’ll give it another try, have posted another message to their page, but I honestly do not expect a reply from them, so how can we go any further?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should phone them and ask why they have not responded to your original complaint.
Paul Wakeman says
Well I’m a little confused to say the least. I sent a complaint to Provident in January of this year, they refused to uphold so I sent it to the FOS and in May of this year I had a letter from the FOS asking for Bank Statements, Credit File etc which I provided. I spoke to the FOS yesterday and my case is still waiting to be allocated to an Adjudicator. In February of this year, I also sent a complaint off to Provident on behalf of my Partner and again they refused to uphold. Case got sent off to FOS and in July of this year, my Partner had a letter from FOS saying that the case was awaiting to be assigned and someone would be in touch within 12 weeks for further information etc. That request for further information has never come and yesterday my Partner received an EMail from an Adjudicator saying her case had been looked at and they had informed Provident that they have upheld Loans 4 – 11!! As a result Provident have 2 weeks to agree etc with the Adjudicator and my Partner is looking at a refund of over £5,000. The only reason I can think of hers being actioned before mine is that my loans started back in 2007 and hers didn’t start until 2013 but either way a good result if Provident agree.
Jolo says
Well done on getting this far at least you know there is a result on your partners. Unfortunately prov are taking their time and the moment and very unlikely to reply within those two wks. For a time line I’ll tell you about mine
Sent to fos in nov/Dec 2018
Fos agreed on some of my loans end july and gave them until mid September. No reply from prov so got put in adjudicator stage 1st Oct.
Prov have now disagreed anyway so it’s just a waiting game.
Good luck with your case too