Many people with a gambling problem have been given unaffordable credit. This fueled their gambling and they got deeper into debt.
Credit is affordable if you can repay it and still pay your other debts, bills and expenses. If it is unaffordable, then you can ask for a refund of interest and charges and take a complaint the lender declines to the Financial Ombudsman (FOS).
But gambling complicates this – perhaps that loan or credit card would have been affordable if only you could stop gambling? Many people who have made an affordability complaint are worried that their complaint will be rejected because of their gambling.
This article looks at some FOS decisions that have involved gambling and affordability complaints.
FOS takes the view that a lender should not have given the credit if they knew – or should have known – that the borrower had a gambling habit.
It doesn’t matter who the lender is. As you can see from the cases below, it’s not just payday lenders, it can be major high street banks.
It is the general approach to gambling that matters here, and FOS’s approach is broadly the same across all lenders and different types of credit.
Contents
What does FOS look at when making a decision?
A lender can’t argue that the borrower should have said they had a gambling problem
Case 1: The fact the customer had not told the lender he had a gambling problem isn’t relevant:
if it had looked at Mr H’s bank statements, it would’ve quickly realised Mr H was gambling and that Mr H couldn’t afford to repay. I don’t think Mr H’s failure to tell Mr Lender about the gambling means he shouldn’t receive compensation as Mr Lender didn’t carry out proportionate checks.
Gambling isn’t discretionary expenditure
Case 2: Payday UK argued that the adjudicator shouldn’t have considered gambling transactions as part of Mr C’s expenditure when looking at affordability as they weren’t essential expenditure.
The Ombudsman didn’t agree:
Mr C’s bank statements show he was regularly spending quite a lot of his income on gambling by this point. So if Payday UK (having a full understanding of his circumstances) was thinking about what Mr C would have available the following month, based on his previous spending patterns I think it’s likely he would’ve continued to spend similar amounts on gambling.
I don’t think it’s fair to say Mr C’s spending on gambling was discretionary at this point.
Gambling showing on bank or credit card statements
Case 3: SafetyNet Credit had access to the borrower’s bank accounts. In this case, the borrower was on a good income:
Mr M was working and typically received an income in the region of £3,000 each month. Some months he also received a bonus in addition to his regular salary. This income is not however significant when comparing it to Mr M’s expenditure.
[SafetyNet Credit] had more than enough information to accurately consider Mr M’s financial position… it should have been obvious that Mr M was living beyond his means, which was likely to have been caused by his compulsion to gamble.
I think that the lending from SafetyNetCredit, and other parties, was used to fund his gambling or other existing commitments, which he couldn’t afford because he’d already spent money on gambling. It seems as though he was caught in a significant cycle of lending and gambling.
Case 4: Vanquis increase a borrower’s credit card limit despite significant amounts of gambling transactions on the credit card. The Ombudsman decided:
I’m not convinced that it can be fairly or reasonably said that any of the subsequent credit limit increases can be considered as being affordable or suitable for Mrs B at the times that they were implemented. And I say this because of the usage of Mrs B’s Vanquis credit account, which demonstrated a high number of gambling transactions which I feel should have given Vanquis cause for concern, as well as the deteriorating wider financial position of Mrs B, as demonstrated by her credit file…
Vanquis explained to this service that they wouldn’t discriminate against an account holder on the basis of how they use their account. But I’m not convinced that this argument can be considered reasonable when an account holders’ transactions highlight a potential gambling addiction.
Lenders should check all accounts a customer has
Case 5: RBS increased a borrower’s overdraft limit significantly and gave him a large loan despite gambling showing on his bank statements. The decision:
A cursory look at Mr B’s statements showed that he’d been gambling significant sums in the lead up to the overdraft increase… Mr B had gambled in excess of his declared monthly income and this had taken him close to and marginally over his existing credit limit in the month proceeding the increase.
In these circumstances, I thought that it ought to have been apparent that there was a significant risk Mr B might have struggled to sustainably repay what he already owed. And he was therefore unlikely to have been able to repay any additional credit without undue difficulty or borrowing further.
Bearing this in mind, I was minded to find that RBS shouldn’t have increased Mr B’s overdraft limit April 2019 and also suspended the use of his facility. And considering the monthly loan payments of just under £800 also took up just under half his monthly income, I found that RBS shouldn’t have provided Mr B with a loan in April 2019 either.
Case 6: Nationwide gave a customer a credit card with a large limit, £6,500, despite gambling showing on bank statements:
When conducting my own review of the performance of Ms B’s Nationwide current account – as Nationwide described that they would themselves have done – it’s of immediate and obvious concern that Ms B was consistently overdrawn throughout this period, often by significant amounts and close to the overdraft limit.
Nationwide explained to this service that they wouldn’t decline a customer’s credit application solely on the basis that the customer maintained a consistently overdrawn balance with them. I can understand Nationwide’s point here, to a degree, but it would be expected that the consistently overdrawn performance of Ms B’s current account would have been of concern here and should have prompted a more detailed check.
And, had Nationwide checked the statement transactions for Ms B’s current account for the months immediately prior to the credit account application, it would have been seen that these included a large number of gambling transactions. Because of this, I find it difficult not to conclude that Nationwide would, or should, have arrived at a different decision with regard their approval of Ms B’s application for credit, had they undertaken a more thorough check.
When lending continues, lenders should look for warning signs
Case 7: Lending Stream had given a series of loans to the customer over several years. It argued that:
it was for Mr P to provide accurate information about his income and outgoings. It said it wasn’t required to make further checks if the loans looked affordable.
The Ombudsman agreed that Lending Stream did enough checks on the first loan and was entitled to rely, at that point, on the customer’s information about his outgoings. But:
… Lending Stream’s check showed that Mr P was heavily and increasingly in debt to a range of lenders. The amount of his debt had increased greatly by the time of his second loan…
… He had credit card and short term loan debts. He was reliant on increasing short term loans to fund his gambling habit and his living expenses. I think if Lending Stream had made further checks it would have seen, as I have, that Mr P was dependent on short term loans. And so it would have decided that giving him further loans would be irresponsible.
Check what the customer tells you
Case 8: Everyday Loans spotted a lot of gambling on the one bank statement it asked the customer for – he explained that he didn’t have a gambling problem and had closed his account. But the Ombudsman decided:
Mr C’s gambling expenditure was significant. In the month before he applied for the loan he had spent an amount in excess of his normal income.
Mr C’s earlier bank statements show clear evidence that he was in fact regularly spending large amounts on online gambling transactions. It is clear from those statements that the spending wasn’t, as Mr C had suggested, simply related to the summer football tournament. His statements appear to show that he was in fact suffering from an addiction to gambling, and he was funding that expenditure by borrowing from a range of other lenders. I don’t think, had it seen that additional evidence, that [Everyday Loans]would have agreed to give this loan to Mr C.
Case 9: George Banco gave a guarantor loan to consolidate payday loan credit without considering the borrower’s full circumstances:
George Banco hasn’t provided any evidence to show how it understood which [payday loans] would be repaid and at what cost. I can’t see that it could make a fair lending decision without knowing this. In addition, Mr S was spending a significant proportion of his income on what seem to be gambling transactions in the months prior to this loan. So from this, combined with his reliance on payday loans, I think the lender ought to have realised Mr S was having problems managing his money and there was a high risk he would be unable to sustainably repay this loan.
Hard to win complaints
Not every complaint involving gambling is upheld.
Cases where the loans are small and someone only borrowed a few times are always difficult to win regardless of the gambling element. The lender often just didn’t know enough to see that the borrower could be in trouble and the amount of credit was so small detailed checks did not need to be made.
Case 10: A Myjar case involving five loans. Here the lender had offered to remove the interest from the last loan and accept a repayment plan but the customer felt that was insufficient. The Ombudsman agreed that only refunding the last loan was reasonable as the loans were small so the checks made were proportionate.
It is also hard to win cases where gambling has only recently become a problem. If you have a good credit record and are well paid, there may be no warning flags that suggest a lender should look in detail at your application.
The “standard” compensation
FOS awards in the vast majority of cases
The standard compensation if an affordability complaint is upheld is for interest to be refunded. If a balance is still owing, the interest refund first reduces the balance and any remaining amount is refunded in cash.
The effect is that people have to repay the amount they borrowed but not any additional interest or charges added.
FOS says about credit records:
We’d typically expect a lender to remove any adverse information on a loan, from the borrower’s credit file, where a complaint is upheld for irresponsible lending.
The refunds and credit records also include taking account of payments made to a debt collector if the debt had been sold, and removing (the legal term is set aside) any CCJ.
It is very unusual not to have to repay what was borrowed
This only tends to happen when the lender was specifically aware that the borrower had a major gambling problem – not by working it out from bank statements but because of previous interactions with the customer where gambling had been discussed.
Case 10: Lloyds gave a customer who had asked for a gambling block on her account two large loans within 6 months, both were said to be for the pur[pose of buying a car. The first loan had been repaid soon after it was given. The Ombudsman found that Lloyds had made reasonable checks for the first loan, but not for the second much larger loan:
The entire amount of the funds advanced for loan 1 were transferred to a betting company, which transactions to were supposed to be blocked, the day after the funds were provided. Lloyds said the use of a third-party service to make the transfers meant that any gambling block would have been negated. Although I wasn’t entirely persuaded by this argument given the payments were made using a well-known third-party payment service to a highly recognisable high-street betting company, which Miss D had been told transactions to had been blocked, clearly appeared within the transactions…
Lloyds chose to lend [the second loan] in these circumstances despite the reasonably foreseeable prospect of
the funds dissipating as a result of being gambled away and being no longer available to repay any debt as a result…
I don’t think removing the interest fees and charges goes far enough. The circumstances of this case and in particular the financial hardship which is likely to be caused by requiring Miss D to pay funds she doesn’t have and is unlikely to get, lead me to think that the fair and reasonable thing for Lloyds to do here, given all the circumstances, is write off the outstanding balance on loan 2…
it seems to me removing adverse information from Miss D’s credit file, increasing the chances of her being able to borrow further would be counterproductive and arguably not in her best interests, or those of any potential lender. So I think it’s fair and reasonable for Lloyds to reflect what I’m asking it to do in relation to the outstanding balance on the loan and record it wrote off a balance on this loan on Miss D’s credit file.
How to complain – tell your story
There isn’t a special template for gambling related complaints. Instead, use the template letters for affordability complaints that is right for the sort of credit you are complaining about, see links to the refund templates.
If a lender rejects your complaint, you can send it to the Ombudsman. You can’t go direct to FOS.
If one of these cases above sounds a lot like your situation, this doesn’t mean you will get the same result. But as you can see from these cases, FOS doesn’t start from the position that it is your fault you were gambling.
When you are sending a case to FOS, be completely open about your gambling problem and the way it interacted with your borrowing from this particular lender. Just tell your story.
And do send your bank statements and a copy of your current credit report – they are the evidence that supports your complaint!
But if you are still gambling…
You can make an affordability complaint if you still have a balance owing to the lender (or debt collector if it has been sold).
But making these complaints if you still have a gambling problem is pretty pointless. If you get any money back you will probably soon be donating it to the bookies and their shareholders…
I know it’s hard, but you need to stop gambling first. Then when you have been “clean” for a while, these complaints can help rebuild your finances.
So read How to escape from the bad credit trap on how a debt management plan can help and How gambling wrecks your finances which looks at the different ways to get help.
Refunds from large loans & car finance
Refunds from cards and catalogues
Can you get an overdraft refund?
Andy says
This is a fantastic article.
I’ve had loans and used partly for gambling addiction.
The lenders had statements and never questioned the multiple transactions to gambling companies.
Recently I’ve tried to borrow to consolidate with the same lenders, have refused me due to £100 of gaming transactions over a 3mth period.
Hopefully this will help me now with my unaffordable Lending complaint.
Dan says
Great article. I had an awful gambling problem years ago and my debt is through that. I have unsuccessful tried to complain about irresponsible lending especially to Barclays. I had a Barclays current account to gamble, it wasn’t my main current account, and it was full of gambling transactions, and nothing else. They kept letting me increase my overdraft and when I logged onto online banking I had a ‘pop up’ inviting me to apply for a loan. I was accepted straight away and the £3,300 was deposited straight into the Barclays account. Of course I gambled it away. I am so ashamed when I think back to it. Worse still, within a couple of weeks (all that money was gone) Barclays offered my YET ANOTHER 3.3k loan. They saw exactly what had happened to the previous money as all transactions were on that account. They totally dismissed my complaint years ago. Is it worth making a new complaint and taking it to the FOS? At the time when I complained I really wasn’t in the right frame of mind to ‘fight’ and take it further so just left it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That depends on what your previous complaint was. Was it about the loans and increasing your overdraft limits? Was it clearly an affordability complaint or did you complaint the overdraft charges were too high?
Dan says
Thanks for replying Sara. It was about that they could clearly see that I had huge gambling transactions (that’s all that was on the account so couldn’t have been missed) yet kept allowing me to increase my overdraft then offered me 2 loans in the space of a couple of weeks. The first loan was all used on gambling straight away (transactions all on that account) and yet they still offered me another loan. I didn’t mention anything about overdraft charges in my complaint, more so that due to having a gambling addiction, I should never have been offered the loans. I’d used payday companies too so this would have all been on my credit report.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Were you continuously in your overdraft for a long while? Only getting back into the black for a few days a month or not even then?
D G says
I was around £80,000 in debt due to gambling, £13,000 of which was on a barclaycard. I have had several cases with the FOS and still a couple outstanding. Barclaycard upheld my complaint and will refund all interest as well as remove the default from my account.
I haven’t placed a bet since December 2018 and have since but my debt down to £17,000 and all being well will finally clear this in 2022.
I have won cases against 118 118 money, Satsuma, Sunny, Safety
Net credit,Avant Credit,Quickquid and Wonga and had redress from all of them.
I won a case against Onstride and will get a reduced redress amount which is frustrating.
I also have a case against Hitachi(adjudicator upheld) but hitachi want an ombudsman to now look at case I have been waiting 4 months so far.
For anyone out there struggling, there is a way out.
I have followed your blog for nearly two years now and I owe a lot my success to you because I didn’t have a clue where to start in regard to starting complaints etc.
Thank you Sara you truly are an inspiration!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Excellent! So glad there is now light at the end of your tunnel.
D G says
I really can’t thank you enough! You’ve changed so many lives for the good!
M says
Hi D G, great story and glad you have made it out the other side. Similar situation my end, have a lot of outstanding debt from a few years back, all related to gambling which has now stopped (3+ years), I feel all the lending was irresponsible upon reading this forum. Do you have any letter templates you would be able to share please, and how do you approach the companies in this first instance (via email) then after that was it the process if they reject in order to escalate to FOS? Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think he used the templates on this website.
DG says
Yes I used all the templates from this site. My last outstanding complaint against Hitcahi(now Novuna) was upheld today and that is the last case I have open.
Sara, thank you for all the advice over the last couple years, i honestly couldn’t have done it withou you.
M, I would suggest you write down every debt you have and send a template to each one stating you thought the loan was unaffordable(support your cases showing gambling on your bank statements.
I’ve come back from over 80,000 in debt and it’s been a long 3 years but it’s definitely achievable. Quitting gambling it step 1, there’s no point starting anything to you achieve this.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara just quick question pls is about gambling complaint.. do you make a complaint to gambling company or loan company pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have been writing about complaints made to lenders that they gave you credit you could not afford.
It would be good if you could complain to the gambling companies, but I can’t help with that side of it.
Turtle says
I wouldn’t bother complaining to the gambling companies. They all require a “Alternative Dispute Resolution” provider who are supposed to be independent and fair but it’s quite obvious they are in the pocket of the gambling companies.
The Gambling Commission will only tell you that you can sue the company.
Mr GA Member says
I had many loans from lending stream, who were effectively supporting my gambling habit, I ended not being able to pay 10 consequent loans, the FOS ruled that the lender had made adequate checks, but agreed the interest, charges and further 3rd party debt collection charges were ‘not appropriate’ these were refunded. However the were mistakes in my application, my name was spelt wrong in the application, they presented that this should have shown up on any credit reference check, this did not happen. I am now waiting for them to take me to court. What name they use to serve the documentation should be interesting
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you get a claim form you should get help with this – it isn’t easy to defend a case on the basis there are minor spelling mistakes. I suggest you talk to National Debtline for help and/or post on the Legal Beagles court case forum.
Paul says
Thanks Sara, probably something I am going to look into soon. With banks allowing me to increase overdraft, gamble with it then increase it again and again. I think something should probably have flagged up. My fault obviously, but some safeguards in place would have helped. Still haven’t got the overdraft sorted after a number of years but at least the gambling is no longer a problem.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am writing a new article just on overdraft refunds in the next week or so – look out for that!
Max says
Hi Sara,
I’m already looking forward to reading that piece, as only yesterday I escalated my overdraft complaint against Halifax to the FOS.
They’ve taken the coward’s approach and timed it out, saying last increase (to £2,000) was back in 2013 and so I only had until 2018 to raise it with them.
But what is hypocritical is they didn’t time out my packaged bank account complaint (made several weeks ago for the SAME account) despite me opening that back in 2008. They actually countered my arguments on several points in their rejection of that complaint, so that’s now with the FOS too.
My bank and credit card statements are littered with sports spread betting transactions for many years (accounts now closed). There were lots of four figure winners, but plenty more similar-sized losers. I’ve been open with the FOS about this issue and it doesn’t seem to have harmed my stance to date, but firmed it.
Regards,
Max
Anita says
Hi my son as a terrible gambling habit and has various payday loans that he as not been paying. He does work but continuously borrows money so is wage is spent every week. I cannot understand why he is still able to borrow money as he has a terrible credit rating and is bank statements are just full of gambling transactions. He is 26 years old. Hes is constantly receiving threatening letters from these companys saying they are coming to my house which is my sons home to recover the money, or letters threatening court action. I am very very worried at what to do.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Your son has to make the decision to stop gambling. Until he wants to do this, nothing will change.
Once he wants to do that he can look at how to get support through this. See https://debtcamel.co.uk/gambling/
The debt problems are his problems, not yours. Your house and your things and your credit score are not at risk. You do not have to open the door to any debt collectors or bailiffs collecting consumer credit debts.
Simon says
Hi so i know that i got loads of payday loans and credit cards and used them for gambling.
The payday loans i made partial settlements.
4 of my credit cards 2 of which are now owned by The PR Group and 1 by Inturum i know i can’t complain about as they were sold by barclays, bank of scotland and m.b.n.a BUT…….Vanquis have not sold my account.
I made a complaint about it and said they should never have upped my limit as they could see the transactions were mostly gambling and only mininum payments made each month.
They turned down my compliant and then i forgot to take it higher, i rang them again and they said its too late and Ombudsman would not look at it. Surely they should….all the companies should but they said no : (
Sara (Debt Camel) says
2 of which are now owned by The PR Group and 1 by Inturum i know i can’t complain about as they were sold by barclays, bank of scotland and m.b.n.a
oh but you can!
Your complaint goes to the lender that made the poor decision. If it is upheld, the lender has to sort out the debt with the debt collector, taking into account the payments you have made to the debt collector.
But Vanquis, if it has been more than six months then I am afraid you missed the window to go to FOS.
Those payday loans – did you borrow from the same lender several times? If the lender is still in business, it may be worth complaining to them, even if you settled the last loan with a partial settlement.
Eddie says
Hi Sara,
Sadly I have had a gambling problem for many years, have in the last year managed to stop by self-exclusion from all betting sites. I still have so many debts from loans including a £30000 home-secured loan in 2008 from my local credit union, I still owe just over £5000 now, I also took out loans with two banks over £10000 but this again was many years ago. Others include payday loans, Amigo, and car cashpoint. I still have outstanding balances on Amigo and Carcashpoint. could I have any luck with any of the mentioned? The loans were used for gambling apart from the Credit union one which they knew about all the payday loans and paid off the debts leaving me a few thousand to spend on gambling. They wanted to make sure I could pay a home loan I had with them previously. The banks would have seen my betting sites on statements
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I also took out loans with two banks over £10000 but this again was many years ago.
How long ago?
Payday loans – a lot of lender have gone bust but there are still some around. Lending Stream, Me Lender, Moneyboat and some others. If you used any of them several times then it is worth making a complaint.
Amigo is complicated. How much did you borrow and how much have you paid to this loan so far?
Carcashpoint – is this a logbook loan?
Eddie says
The bank ones around 2008 and 2010?
Amigo lots of loans rolled over after they offered me a top-up Adding the loans together it must be around £1500 maybe just under, teh outstanding amount owing now is £1500.
Carcashpoint is a logbook loan yes. I have taken out so many with them
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Carcashpoint is straightforward – use the template letter here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/. You will have to keep paying the current loan while the complaint goes through as otherwise they will take your car.
The banks – worth trying to make a complaint, use the same template letter. The Finacial Ombudsman will go back further than 6 years, so ignore the banks if they say FOS won’t. However there may sometimes be little evidence about old loans, so this may not be easy.
Amigo – having several top up loans and evidence that you have a gambling problem is typically a very strong complaint. Amigo is curently trying to propose a Scheme of Arrangement – if this is approved you will not receive the full value of any cash refund from them – in their 1st Scheme which was rejected by the court as unfair, you would have got 10% or less of the current value… So really you want to pay them as little as possible now as you may get little of that money back… Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/stop-paying-amigo-set-off/ and think about making a complaint and asking Amigo for Equitable set off. If they say yes, then they will not ask your guarantor to pay until your complaint is decided in the Scheme. If they say No, then you need to talk to your guarantor about stopping paying anyway, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/stop-paying-amigo-pros-and-cons/ for the pros and cons.
Eddie says
Thanks Sara,
With regards to the Amigo loan, I don’t want anything to have a negative impact on my credit file so paying less is not a great thing for me anyway.
I am £800 in arrears with car cashpoint and I am paying £100 extra each month to catch up on arrears.I need my car for work so worried if they try to take it. It is only worth around £2000 now though
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you win the Amigo complaint all negative marks are removed from your credit rewcord. If you can manage the current payments and don’t mind that you will get very little back as a refund later, then just carry on paying and only complain if a new scheme is announced.
But if your credit record is a mess, then I would suggest stopping paying Amigo (if you can get the Equitable Set off agreed) and using that money to clear the arrears on the CCP debt then making a claim to that may be a good idea?
Peter Vernon says
Hi Sara
Are there time limitations on complaining? I have won recent cases against Vanquis and Marbles. I have evidence of much greater irresponsible lending by Barclaycard MBNA and others going back to 2004. When contacted they hid behind the 6 year rule. I am still paying these debts from 15 plus years ago. Do the banks have a moral duty to settle these historic complaints themselves?
Pete
Sara (Debt Camel) says
How long ago did you complain to Barclaycard, MBNA etc and get rejected?
Peter says
Within the last 2 years or so.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That’s unfortunate as you are out of time to take the complaints to the Financial Ombudsman – you have only 6 months from a rejection by the lender. As the lenders should have told you.
It is generally possible to go back to 2007, but with older complaints there may be little evidence.
Ernestkola says
Any templates pls?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That depends on the type of debt – see https://debtcamel.co.uk/tag/refunds/ which lists the template articles
Dave says
I complained to my bank santander regarding two accounts I set up in Nov 2020 and Jan 2021. I used my visa debit card and lost about 1k. I later found out the websites were actually scams and I have proven so by obtaining confirmation from the relevant gambling licensing authorities, I have it in writing. However santander still rejected my request for a refund of deposits made saying I still used the service the site provided, but my point was, had I won any money and tried to withdraw, I wouldn’t have gotten it, hence part of the service the sites claimed to provide was not provided. I sent a complaint to FOS who did not uphold my complaint, saying the same as santander. I’ve reported it to action fraud, the fca etc but haven’t got anywhere. I’ve pretty much given up on getting anything back now. But my point is, this shows that banks are very slow and unsympathetic and have a lack of understanding of gambling and that needs to change. Santander argued they have now put a block option on their app so I can block gambling transactions. Guess what, all you have to do is click the button and it turns off immediately. It’s absolutely poor. I hope things change so others aren’t affected in the same way.
Ernestkola says
Goodafternoon Sara .. pls l need your advice.. l have gambling problems for years… l have barclays and Halifax bank account with overdraft … of £2000 on Halifax which reduce to £500 because l took a loan for £1500 to reduce d overdraft because of alot of interest l was paid on the overdraft… they offer me the loan without asking for it… l have alot gambling transaction on my Halifax statement. . I have credit cards with them aswell but l dont have transaction on the credit card.. l have capital one and vanquish and ocean credit but l used the money to gambling something but only cash but no transactions on them … the barclays one is about 6yr or 8 yrs ago… template pls?
Can you pls give me the template pls
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large is your Barclays overdaft? Are you in your overdraft all the time every month, even when you are paid?
The Capital One, Ocean and Vanquis cards – are you saying you only or mainly used the cards to withdraw cash? Did they increase your credit limits?
Are you still gambling? If not, when did you stop?
Ernestkola says
Yes am always on my overdraft every month … when l get paid …barclays overdraft is like 2000k or 3000k can’t remember..capital one, ocean and vanquis .. l only used cash withdraw for football gambling … no transactions on their statements… l have alot gambling transaction on the Halifax current account with gambling… the vanquish and ocean capital one are default .. l have arrangement with them pay them monthly but they stop all the interest on them.. l think capital one increased the limit and Halifax overdraft
I stop gambling beginning of this month
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well done for stopping.
What I suggest you do now is get a new bank account without any overdraft and switch to using that as your main bank account. If you try to get a monzo account that has good “gambling blocking” which you can turn on.
Then talk to StepChange about setting up a debt management plan for your credit cards and your overdrafts. That should get all interest and charges frozen.
Then when that is all sorted in a couple of months come back and think about making claims for refunds when your ongoing situation is clearer.
Ernestkola says
Thanks so much
JJ says
I had two credits cards (where the sole spend was o. Gambling websites), at the same time where I was taking payday loans. Problem is, the credit cards were opened in 2012 – one still has a balance which is subsequently sold to intrum. Can I still make a complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did the credit cards increase your credit limits?
JJ says
I think it was only increased once. But I was continually behind with payments, til the point it got defaulted some years later. Each time I’d make a min payment I’d end up just depositing again on gambling websites back up to my card limit (2k on each).
One remains on my credit file so defaulted around 4-5 years ago.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
1) you can complain when the accounts were opened more than 6 years ago – expect the lenders to reject your complaint and send it to the financial ombudsman who will normally agree to look at thses case if you have onlt found out recently you can complain.
2) complaint to the original lender, not to Intrum. If your case is upheld it will be up to the lender to sorts things out with the debt collector.
3) use the templates on here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ but change them to explain how you used the account – that you often missed payments and only ever paid the minimum. Say you think they should have seen much earlier that you were in difficulty and stopped lending to you.
robert says
Hi Sara, i had 2 loan with 118 118 money and now almost 2 years i made a complain but because was my first complain and i didn’t have experience and they said that they war right when they lend me money i didn’t go forward to Ombusdman. Do i am allowed to start over again ?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
no, sorry. You only have 6 months to take a complaint to the Ombudsman. And you can’t make the same complaint again – they will just reply they have already answered it.
Warwick22 says
I loved the article and hope it works for people. My gambling was way back in 2010-2014 , now all my debts are either statute barred or have been written off but not via misselling. I would agree with people who say Santander are difficult. After becoming unemployed in early 2011 , all my income was either from the DWP or the local authority as Housing Benefit yet Santander kept increasing my overdraft (yes I did ask). When I complained they said they only knew I was unemployed when I told them, that was despite 19 months of no salary payments and only benefits going into my back. The FOS agreed with them. As I said, the debt is now Statute Barred. It is no easy fix and as Sara says, unless you can stop gambling what is the point?
I would not say I have totally stopped and that is a source of deep regret for me , when my mental health spirals out of control I resort to gambling.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
As you know, but others reading this may not, if you have a large debt which you are not being pursued for because it is statute barred or because it is written off, there is little point in making this sort of complaint as any refund will first be used to pay off the debt, even if it has been “written off”.
When was your complaint against Santander?
Warwick22 says
Sadly is was several years ago; I think the lats response I had was 2013. As you say, I am aware there is little point in making a complaint at this point in time, unfortunately even with the PDL’s I was able to pay off , the companies have gone out of business.
The point I was trying to make is that the person who makes the complaint might have to argue their case, particularly with Santander who seemed particularly intransigent. Even with 18 months of only benefit payments (and PDL credits) being credited to my account they still denied knowing I was on benefits or in financial difficulties.
I was in a very very bad place with large debts, no assets or excess income and poor mental health. I am proof there is light at the end of the tunnel thanks to people like you and others who help even up the field when dealing with debt.
warwick22 says
Having said all that I am thinking about SARing Aqua. I did fall off the wagon a few years ago and used the card to take cash withdrawals incurring costs . These were all spent on gambling. I ended up with a credit limit of £7000 at a very high interest rate. The account was closed and paid off .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If they increased your credit limit when you had taken a LOT of cash withdrawals, they probably should not have done that. Finding the details will help yopu make a good case.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think everyone making these complaints has to expect all lenders will reject and take it to FOS.
warwick22 says
Thanks Sara, I think you are right and it takes some effort to go to the FOS (I am sure these companies hope it will be too much effort).
In your opinion is it worth telling the FOS some of the consequences that you have faced due to gambling, for example, Job loss, maybe previous Bankruptcy or multiple defaults and of course for some criminal investigation and maybe conviction?
I mean , to be frank, I wouldn’t lend money to myself but currently I could access over £30K on credit cards, some of it at relatively low APR’s (for credit cards).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It’s part of your story, so it’s fair to explain that but I would keep it brief and not expect too much from it. FOS is only really looking at the credit that should not have been given and redress for that.
NB for anyone that went bankrupt, there is NO point in making these affordability complaints about things that happened before your bankruptcy – any refunds will go to the Official Receiver. Or to your creditors if you went for an IVA.
Warwick22 says
Just wanted to say that AQUA upheld my historic complaint, refunded all cash fees and almost all interest along with £150 for closing my new account with them. All in all getting on for 2k. No statutory interest which I might take to the ombudsman when I finally get the letter
Duncan says
Hi Hi Sarah would you recommend we still doing my unaffordable lending HSBC I’ve just come back and have declined my complaint. Would you recommend me to now take it to the financial ombudsman Or form a complaint via gambling problem as above. but as you know I spent in excess of £30000 with HSBC credit cards on gambling what do you suggest once again great article.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
These gambling complaints are affordability complaints – the reason for writing this article is to show people that they don’t need to worry that FOS will say it was the customer’s fault for gambling. Gambling showing on your card or bank statements supports an affordability complaint.
So I suggest you send it straight to FOS. HSBC should already have seen the gambling if they had even looked at your account when you sent in the complaint. Just make it clear in what you write to FOS about the amount of gambling and that it was clearly on your card statements..
Rasheeda says
Rasheeda
Helo
Sara
I just got refund from barclaycard which is 36 pound but they increase limit from hundreds to thousands in 10 2 11 years.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Had you complained to them or did this cheque just arrive out of the blue?
Rasheeda says
Rasheeda
Helo
Sara
I just got refund from barclaycard which is 36 pound but they increase limit from hundreds to thousands in 10 2 11 years. No I did not complain at all I just ask them help in financial difficulty and they put my account on hold and send this letter.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
are you constantly in your overdraft? All the time, even when you get paid?
do you have other problem debts as well?
This page is about gambling, if you don’t have a gambling problem but do have a big overdraft problem you can still ask for a refund .
alex says
hello Sara. I have the situation that I borrowed 10K on likely loans on July 2021 and lost almost all money for gambling, after that i borrow 5K from lendable on August and they borrowed me without check transaction hystory, after I lost this money i borrowed 2K from 118money in October. and now I am in situation that i can not afford to pay loans almost. At the moment loans up to date. what i can do in this situation? better complain now or wait when loans will be on late payments. can you please tell me the best options for me.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Are you still gambling?
Was the 118 loans also gambled away, or did you use the money from it to repay the earlier loans?
Do you have other debts, eg overdraft, credit cards?
alex says
yes I am gambling in hope to win and paid everything back. money from 118money had multiple purpose to gamble and pay debts. i have all debts up to date. only have more 1 credit card capital one 500£ limit and 3 loans likely,lendable 118money
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I suggest you stop gambling and talk to StepChange about a debt management plan so your repayments are affordable. Then in 3-6 months when this has all settled down, you can think about possible reclaims. Getting a debt management plan in place will show that the loans were unaffordable.
if you don’t want to stop gambling, then there isn’t much point in making these claims.
alex says
thanks a lot. I will think about it.
Jk says
The fos are looking at a complaint of mine with Tesco they gave me a credit limit of £1700 despite having some pay day loans on my credit report and having gambling transactions on my bank account. I did a cash transfer for most of the £1700 and spent it gambling, 6 months later I asked for an increase and they granted me a credit limit of £2500 no questions asked but my credit rating would have worsened by that point. Then after another 6 months I request an increase again and get £3200. I made regular payments to the card but often paid £100 and then did a cash transfer for the same amount so always maxed out on credit card. I’m nervous about the outcome but have already had 2 guarantor loan complaints upheld by fos.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
One point to make to FOS is that the Lending Code said that a customer’s Financial difficulties may become evident to a lender if the customer makes frequent cash withdrawals on a credit card at a non-promotional rate of interest. That sounds like you! In this situation you can argue that Tesco should not have increased your credit limit.
Jk says
I have just checked back through my statements and the frequent transactions are balance transfers rather than cash withdrawals, would these be looked at in the same way as I was transferring money to current account to gamble.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you can argue that is the same as cash withdrawals. You will probably have been charged the same by the credit card for the transfers as you would for cash withdrawals.
Jk says
The fos have come back as follows
I’ve now looked at all the information that you and Tesco Personal Finance (Tesco Bank) have given me. Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t think Tesco has acted unfairly – so I’m not asking them to do anything more.
I’ve explained below why I think this is the right outcome – taking into account everything that’s happened.
Your complaint
You complained Tesco Bank irresponsibly opened a credit card account for you even though you had other debts and a gambling habit at the time. It then also allowed two credit limit increases despite the fact you had made numerous late and missed payments. You said you would transfer the maximum amount of credit to your current account for gambling purposes and this would’ve been obvious had Tesco carried out the necessary checks.
In order to resolve the complaint, you would like Tesco Bank to refund all the interest and charges you’ve paid since opening the account.
My findings
I’ve considered all the available evidence and arguments to decide what’s fair and reasonable in the circumstances of this complaint. When investigating complaints regarding irresponsible lending or affordability, I look to determine whether the credit was suitable at the time it was provided.
You applied for a Tesco Bank Balance Transfer Credit Card in November 2016. Here, I can see Tesco Bank used the information you had provided in your application and compared it against the information held with the Credit Reference Agencies (CRA).
I think it’s worth explaining here that it’s up to a lender to decide what methods it uses to establish affordability – there’s no specific list of checks that must be carried out before deciding to provide credit. At the time of opening the account, you said you were employed full-time, with a net monthly income of £2,200 and a net disposable income of £803.23. The credit checks completed at the time showed you had no defaults. The account was opened with a limit of £1,700, so I think the checks were proportionate to the amount of credit being offered.
Jk says
I appreciate you said as soon as the account was opened, you transferred the maximum amount to your current account. I don’t think there was anything untoward about this to Tesco Bank, especially considering the account was opened to complete a balance transfer.
After the account was opened, I can see it was maintained relatively well. A Direct Debit was set up which paid considerably more than the minimum payment required and the account remained well within the limit. There was little spending on the card, and although I can see there were some money transfers made to your current account, these were infrequent which wouldn’t have been a cause for concern for Tesco Bank.
Following this increase, there were multiple money transfers made between 20 June 2017 and 23 June 2017. Again, this wouldn’t be a risk indicator as you had proactively requested the increase, and the balance was still kept well within the limit. And following these transfers, there was once again little activity on the account, and payments above the minimum were being paid regularly. There were occasions where the payment wasn’t made by the due date, but I can see it was paid shortly afterwards and the account never fell into arrears.
In March 2018, a lump sum payment was made on top of the Direct Debit bringing the balance down to £1,795 – well within the £2,500 limit. The following month, you once again applied for a credit limit increase. Another credit check was completed which again showed no defaults or deliquesces with other borrowing. Tesco Bank also looked at the management of your account, which showed it was still being maintained well and within the limit. Your request was therefore granted, and the limit increased to £3,200.
In June 2017, you called Tesco Bank to request the limit be increased on your account. Tesco Bank checked the information reported to the CRA’s which didn’t show any adverse information being reported. It also looked at how your account was being managed. As the account was being maintained well, hadn’t gone over the limit or been in arrears, the limit was increased to £2,500.
Jk says
I do note that right before the limit was increased, there were some transactions made to William Hill. But this in itself wouldn’t necessarily have been a risk indicator and there wasn’t a single gambling transaction in the 17 months prior since the account was opened.
There are rules and best practice guidelines that set out what a credit providers needs to do when increasing a credit limit, and when it shouldn’t increase the limit. CONC 5.2 explains card issuers like Tesco Bank, must consider how the increase may adversely impact the customer’s financial situation. It will do this by taking into account the information it already has about the customer at the time of the increase, the ability of the customer to make repayment and information obtained from a Credit Reference Agency. Based on everything I’ve seen, Tesco did this.
I’ve also had a careful look at your credit file. Having done so, I can’t see anything which would’ve prevented Tesco from offering you credit or prompted it to request further information from you. Any external lending you had at the time was up to date with its payments.
My conclusions
I’m sorry to learn of your complaint and I can see your account was eventually terminated and defaulted. In terms of what you’ve said about your gambling habit – I can’t see how Tesco Bank could’ve reasonably been made aware from the information it received from your application and credit file, so I can’t say it did anything wrong in providing you with credit when you requested it.
Based on everything I’ve seen, I don’t have a reasonable basis to say Tesco Bank has made a mistake here and I’m afraid I can’t ask it to do anything more.
– very disappointed as I was in the midst of a gambling addiction at this time but I can also see what the fos is getting at
Sara (Debt Camel) says
One question – the Tesco account was this a money transfer card, intended to let you move money to a current account? Or was it a credit card 0% balance transfer account?
If it was a money transfer account, then it sounds as you were using the account for what it was intended and Tesco didn’t have any indication that you had a significant gambling problem from the statements it could see or from your credit record. There has to be some red flag that suggests to a lender that you have a problem so they should look closer.
jk says
It was a credit card with a 0% balance transfer introductory rate.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes, I am just checking that it was the sort of card designed to transfer money to a bank account, not to a credit card. MSE calls these Money Transfer credit cards, see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/money-transfers/. I see Tesco Bank is listed as one of the best buys of many transfer cards so it probably was. In that case the adjudicator is right that you withdrawing all the money at the start was what the card was intended for.
Dominic says
Hi Sara, great article to read. I also like people here had a gambling problem, however, mine wouldnt show up on statements as being used for gambling. I used to do my gambling in shops, so my bank statement is littered with page upon page of high withdrawals from cash points on or just after payday.
I know this is harder to prove, but does this still show that I was unable to keep hold of money? Or should any questions of been asked when I took out a loan with everyday loans?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well first the loan from Everyday Loans may have been unaffordable, a lot of theirs aew! See https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/
Your overdraft – were you constantly in it for a long period? Over a year?
Dominic says
Thanks for your reply Sara.
I have already submitted my everyday loan to the ombudsman, waiting for them to pick the case up. I managed to get 3 months of bank statements from when I took the loan out and its all high cash withdrawals. I was able to take a loan out and then 2 months later was able to top up, which looking back I surely shouldn’t of been able to do. I had a loan with likely loans at the time, payday loans and 3 credit cards all maxed out paying the minimum on. I have never been able to get an overdraft due to credit score.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
EL normally ask to see a bank statement. If the one they saw had a very large amount of cash being withdrawn soon after payday I think they should have queries it. Especailly if your credit record showe a pattern of increasing debt.
And certainly they should have looked very closely at a top up.
good luck! Ar you also making claims againt likely loans? And the credit cards if they increased your limits when you were maxed out and only paying the minimums?
Dominic says
I did have to provide 1 months bank statement which did show lots of high withdrawals. I sent a letter to likely loans and they agreed with my unaffordability complaint and paid out. I have claims with the ombudsman for Barclaycard and NewDay (Aqua and Marbles) this has just been picked up by an adjudicator, so fingers crossed. My aqua card was increased from £350 to £800 and to £2100 all while taking out payday loans, and only paying the minimums on these accounts.
turtle says
This is a really great article Sara. There is a huge connection between high interest debt and gambling problems in this country which is overlooked.
I was caught up in gambling debts over several years and was in a spiral of pay day loans, credit cards and overdrafts.
Originally I felt so ashamed that i didn’t even want to complain to these lenders or the FOS. I just wanted to forget it all and move on. Eventually I got my act together are started making complaints with the help of this website.
Over 2 years I got back about £18k in interest I had paid and cleaned up my act so it’s worth the time and effort fighting.
Warwick22 says
I couldn’t agree more. You will never solve your financial problems if you carry on gambling. Stopping isn’t easy especially if you have an income. I have lost count of the people I meet who tell me they win, mostly it’s on fruit machines and the say I won £x but they don’t tell you they lost twice that yesterday or put in the same to get the win.
Of course the gambling companies don’t want us to stop gambling but please everyone try. I lost a lot through gambling , a job, almost a relationship and above all my self respect.
There is help out there, if you don’t feel comfortable with one try another. I didn’t like the evangelical way of GA but found a local charity and support group.
Once you are settled look at reclaiming
Eddie says
Sorry to bother you again Sara but with regards to a £30000.00 loan I took out with my Leeds City Credit Union Bank, it was to consolidate all my debts with loan companies that had built up through gambling, most paid off all debts leaving me with just one loan with LCCU (i now only owe £5000.00) but I was left with I think £2000.00 for myself, and yes gambled it away. This was in 2008, do I have a right to claim back interest on the whole of the loan that was to pay off my debts? They would have known about my gambling as it was visible on the bank statements with them, but they did help out by paying off all debts at that time.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was the loan affordable? Could you repay it without having to borrow more money?
And what was the interest rate? CU rates were lower in 2008 than most are now.
SlowLearner says
Thanks a lot for this really helpful article.
FWIW I have a case with an FOS adjudicator at the moment which is all about this, my bank allowing me to gamble huge amounts on my credit card and increasing my credit limit. I told them I had a gambling problem several years ago, and requested gambling transactions blocked (they just said they couldn’t). Same bank also ran my current account and knew my income, and in my opinion should have seen I had loads of debts elsewhere due to several large DDs each month to other credit cards, even if they didn’t check my credit file which would have shown quickly rising debts of over £20k.
I’ve asked for the cash fees paid every time I made a gambling transaction to be refunded, not the amounts I gambled because that doesn’t seem right, I need to face up to the fact that that money is gone, it feels important for my ongoing recovery as a compulsive gambler. But since the bank profited from the ongoing situation over years and let me make thousands and thousands of “cash” transactions and got all that money in cash fees I felt it was reasonable to raise a complaint.
Anyway I don’t know whether to be optimistic about a good result, but the adjudicator has taken a few months since she started the investigation and keeps updating me saying she’s still investigating so I am at least encouraged that she is taking it seriously as something potentially worth upholding.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok, one thing you should be asking for is a refund of all the interest if they increased your credit limit after telling the bank you had a gambling problem.
SlowLearner says
Thanks, Sara, this site is amazing and you work so hard for everyone!
Actually I barely paid any interest on this card as I was terrified of the high APR of cash transactions so after a bad gambling episode I nearly always made balance transfers soon afterwards with other credit cards to turn it into cheaper debt. (Yes, it is weird that I was so terrified of the high APR but obviously not terrified enough of losing thousands gambling to make me stop!! Just shows how addction screws up your decision making)
This habit of transferring to other cards meant I never went overlimit on this card either, or “missed a payment” (because I was transferring it away to other cards instead) so I am a bit worried that both things will work against me in my complaint.
Although, the time they did raise my credit limit was after a really bad spree when I took my balance close to the limit with all the gambling transactions, I remember them writing and saying ‘we think you would find a higher credit limit useful’ and I was surprised because it was the first time I’d ever had such a high balance on the card and I got this really fast offer to raise the limit. Unfortunately I can’t find that letter/email now, but maybe they will have it in their systems? I don’t know how it works.
I guess I can only wait and see.
Ernestkola says
Good evening Sara… thanks for advice the other day .. have done everything you told me to do ….and l managed to payoff my loan with Halifax … because l have on arrears for 6month on my loan and credit cards .. and also have stopped gambling… l want to my complaint to them now… pls send me the template pls🙏
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So all remaining loans and credit cards are now in a debt management plan?
Talk to StepChange about this as I suggested before in March this year. You can put all your credit card debts and your overdraft into the DMP. Please talk to them.
You have to allow for these complaints taking a long while and get yourself in a safe position in the meanwhile. A DMP will do this.
Ernestkola says
Have done that by fill income expenditure with my creditors because some of my account are default already. So l pay them every month… and all interest stop by my creditors. Have call step change and they told me the will do the same .. of what l did
Sara (Debt Camel) says
and the overdrafts have stopped adding charges?
Ernestkola says
Yes in natwest bank interest has stop but in Halifax overdraft have took loan already to pay the off d overdraft… loan amount is £1500 and overdraft is £2000 – only have £500 now but am not pay interest on that because the type of account l have… only pay for the loan and credit with Halifax… have missed about 5month payments but have paid off . So my account is normal now with Halifax
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok well I would still suggest leaving this a couple more months to see how the stopping gambling goes. But the template of an overdraft reclaim and a credit card reclaim is here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/
Ernestkola says
Thanks so much 🙏
Stephen says
Hi Sara
I have recently being following your posts I had gambling issues around 2015 I had lots of pay day loans on my bank statements i took out 2 loans with Halifax in April for 2k and 8k in June i know it’s more than 6years but did not realize you could claim against a bank for unaffordable lending i have just been rejected by Halifax saying it’s more than 6 years old but stayed the loans should not have been given to me with gambling transactions and around 8 payday loans on my statements plus a overdraft increase 1 month before my first loan i am still paying the loan off through debt management company do you think it would be worth while taking it to the financial ombudsmen
Sara (Debt Camel) says
how large was the overdraft increase?
Stephen says
Hi Sarah
I increased my overdraft to £400 in March took out a personal loan in April for 2K then followed up in June for £8k I had gambling transactions in my bank statements and at least 7pay day loans before in the middle and after each loan two pay day loans came days before my first loan .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok so that is a tiny overdraft,
“two pay day loans came days before my first loan ”
they may not have been visible to your bank when they looked at your credit record.
But I think given the sequence – small overdraft increase, 2k loans and then a much larger application Halifax should have looked very carefully at the last laon application and then they would have seen the gambling.
i think you should send this complaint to the Ombudsman and say you realised you were in financial trouble much earlier, hence your debt management plan, but you have only recently found out that Halifax should have considered the affordability of the loans so you are complaining within 3 years of finding this out. Say when and how you found out about this,
Stephen says
Hi Sara
Thank you for your reply just one more thing should I wait for the letter from Halifax and bank statements i have requested before I go to the Ombudsmen or start it now I have a claim reference number.
Again thank you for your help much appreciated.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Send it straight away, no need to add a longer delay in here.
Stephen says
Sara
I would like to say a big thank you looks like the Financial ombudsmen thinks I have a good case just waiting for Halifax to reply back this as also made me claim against Georgebanco for the same reason this is just less than 6 years old they refinanced my loan even though I was in a debt plan and added £2800 interest on? These two and the redress from Casheuronet are the last of my claims.
David says
Hi .
I have had a vanquis credit card for 8 and a half years and until gambling was stopped on it i only ever used it for gambling or cash transactions to gamble. I reckon only a handful of transactions have been for anything other than gambling. During this period i found myself in probably 25k debt including numerous pay day loans at the 1 time. With the help of this site i have had thousands of pounds refunded and i am now in process of paying the credit card debt i have left. After speaking to vanquis i have been over limit 60 times out of 97 . All relating to gambling. I was wondering would it be waste of time putting in an affordabilty complaint due to how long ago it was. I am currently in a paydown plan and only owe £700 . But my limit was 3k .
Any advice would be great
Sara (Debt Camel) says
During this time was your Vanquis credit limit increased?
David says
Hi
Yes i think.it was as it didnt start at 3k limit. If it did it wd have been about a year or so after i imagine. I phoned to ask vanquis and after 20 minutes they still couldnt tell me
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That sounds likely as they normally start off with small credit limits.
Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ and send them a complaint saying:
– they should not have increased your credit limit when they could see that the card was only used for gambling or for cash withdrawals
– ask for a refund of all interest and charges after the time your credit limit was increased (NB you want a full refund from this point, not just a refund for the interest charged over the original credit limit because at this point they should have realised you were in difficulty and closed the account and offered forbearance to allow you to repay it.)
If they say that was more than 6 years ago and you cannot complain, then send the case to the Finacial Ombudsman explaining that:
– it is is only in the last three years you have found out about making affordability complaints;
– the high number of times they charge you for exceeding the limit should have prompted a review of your account at several points in the last 6 years and Vanquis failed to do this.
David says
Spoke to vanquis there and they and after 20 minutes they agree that my balance was increased from the original amount but cant tell me over the phone and it will take 21 days to send out the info with dates of increases and amounts.
Cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would send them the complaint now. You can fill it in with more details when you get them.
David says
Will do. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it
Gambler says
Hi
I have just received a SAR back from AQUA and it shows that in under 3 years I took cash advanced totalling over £10,000. The vast bulk of these were between Dec 2015 and Dec 2017. During that time they increased my credit limit from 300 to 3500 and then in 2018 it went from £3500-£6200, The amount of interest I have paid is astronomical, some of this was at an interest rate of over 40%. There are no gambling transactions per se but the vast majority of the withdrawals were made in one city centre and should have raised at least some flags. Is it worth a punt pardon the poor wording. The card was paid off and closed in 2018.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you get a complaint in straight away and send it to the Ombudsman immediately if it is declined – you want as many transactions to be under 6 years when it is sent to the Ombudsman as possible. FOS can look at bolder transactions but it takes longer and is more complicated.
Use the standard complaint letter and add some sentences about your specific situation. Say that you took cash advances of over £10,000 and you think a lender should not have increased your limit while so many of your transactions were in cash as that suggests that you are in financial difficulty. Add that you think the sheer number of cash transactions should have prompted a review of your account and that they should have closed it and offered you forbearance on repaying the balance. Ask for a refund of all the interest and charges you paid after the first credit limit increase.
Gambler says
Thanks Sara. I will do that, sadly it has to go by snail mail as I can not find an email address for Aqua complaints. If I look at all the interest charges as well this is a pretty large amount as for a good deal of the time I was not paying all the account off each month. I tended to pay bits off as and when so some months 3 or 4 payments of say £50 each.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it may be harder if you were often paying off a lot, but give it a go.
Max says
@Gambler, go via Resolver.co.uk rather than snail mail, only takes a couple of minutes and you can track the progress of your claim (will be a longggg process if you get the FOS involved).
That’s how I did my complaints to Aqua and Marbles last year (currently with an Ombudsman after they rejected the adjudicator’s original decision and identical second verdict after they refused to accept the first).
By the by, if I win I’m going to take all my monthly statements from late 2014 (PDFs were nearly 500 pages in total) to a local accountant to calculate the correct redress amount as I expect NewDay to play fast and loose with a refund amount.
I view the accountant’s fee of around £150 to calculate an accurate figure as an “investment”.
Max
Gambler says
I found some more statements which took it up to above £16K of cash advances. There was a clear pattern which should at least have raised alarm bells, cash withdrawals, deposits etc. Even if I just got back the cash advance fees it would be over £500 before any simple interest. I will get it posted on Monday recorded delivery and see what happens. Hope for the best and expect the worst !
JP says
Hi Sara, I have had a 5000 overdraft with lloyds bank since mid 2016, I originally had a 500 limit then increased this to 5000 in the space of around 5 months. Each increase was between 500-1000 at a time and sometimes more than 1 increase was applied for on the same day. All of the increases were due to gambling which is quite clear on my statements. I haven’t always been 5000 overdrawn however it has been up and down ever since. Do you think it’s worth putting a claim in for irresponsible increases when it’s clear it was only applied for because of my gambling?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What you have said makes this sound like a good claim. Send it straight to the Ombudsman if Lloyds reject it.
Neal says
Hi Sara,
If you made an affordability complaint that got refused originally and you didn’t take it to FOS in time, could you make a viable gambling complaint as a separate complaint to the affordability one?
Cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was the lender aware of the gambling? If gambling showing on bank or credit card statements and the lender still gave you a credit increase you can argue this was irresponsible. I don’t know if FOS would agree to look at one of these complaints, you could try.
But if it is a loan or a credit card without any gambling showing and syou are saying the lender should have looked more closely, that sounds like a standard affordability complaint and I would expect it to just be rejected and FOS to refuse to look at it.
Neal says
No they weren’t aware and gambling shows on bank statements yes. I will try and revisit them with irresponsible complaints then, thank you.
Its worth a try isn’t it?
Thanks for the help.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it is. And try to take it to FOS if this is rejected.
Neal says
Will do, thank you.
Sarah says
I’ve just had a refund applied to my account for the interest I paid for gambling but the letter states I’m not entitled to the 8% because this was not affordability it was my miss management by not telling them I had a previous problem. Is this right or wrong?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh this is a new one on me… who is the lender and what sort of account was it? has the refund cleared the account? what exactly have they refunded?
Sarah says
It’s a marbles card. They believe they were correct in giving me the credit limit increase which I used online to gamble in 2018 and the interest paid on that increase is £2726.32. As interest always would’ve been chargeable on the initial credit limit, this is why a proportionate amount is given and not a full refund. And for 8% the letter states “with regards to your request for 8% simple interest to be added and refunded, this is not applicable in this scenario. 8% is a rate generally awarded to compensate a consumer where they feel that they have been ‘out of pocket’ or at a financial loss. However, as your account balance was not being paid in full, the 8% is not applicable in these circumstances”.
Do you think I should proceed to FOS?
I rang up the call handler said it was my fault. The bit on my initial comment was verbal and the above is in the letter
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So there are two things going on here.
First they aren’t refunding everything from the point your limit was increased in 2018, just an amount over what the previous limit is.
This may not be a good offer!
What was your limit before? What was it increased to?
Was there gambling showing on the Marbles card before they increased the limit?
There may be a good case for FOS to say ALL your payments from that point whould have been refunded, because they should have seen you were in difficulty and offered you forbearance. This may be a lot of money, much more than any 8% amount.
Second they aren’t paying 8% interest.
I don’t think this has anything to do with the fact that it was your mis-management – I think the person on the phone just made that up… But 8% is normally only given when you no longer owe them any more money. As the written reply says “as your account balance was not being paid in full, the 8% is not applicable in these circumstances”.
This is why I asked you if the refund had cleared your account? Of course if the refund is increased (see point one) then it is more likely it would clear your account and then you would also be owed 8% interest.
Sarah says
there were gambling transactions prior to 2018 when the credit limit was increased
It hasn’t cleared my account as I still owe them.
My credit limit was increased from £1300 to £7050 so that’s a lot less than £2700. Do you think I should take it forward? Thank you for your help by the way! I’m trying so hard to get out of debt and I’m 11 months gamble free
Sara (Debt Camel) says
11 months free – well done!
To double check, there were quite a few gambling transactions on this Marble card?
What is your current balance?
That was a HUGE credit limit increase. Do you know how much interest and charges yiupaid on the card after that? It’s worth adding these up so you get Feel for whether this is worth going to FOS for.
Sarah says
Current balance is £4600. There were sadly a lot of gambling transactions and I even paid the card off once and then reused it for gambling. The interest is 39.4% apr and monthly payments were £200-£400
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Then I think you should send this to FOS and say you want a refund of ALL of your payments from the point of the credit increase, as at that point if they had reviewed your account they would have seen the gambling and closed the account and allowed you to repay the balance interest free.
As an alternative you could reply to Marbles that their offer is not sufficient and if they don’t clear your account, you will be sending this to FOS and asking for a refund of all the payments you made from the time they increased your limit as at that point they should ghave realised you were already in trouble with gambling. If you try this, say the complaint goes to FOS within a week if they do not accept. You don’t want another long wait. I don’t know whether this is at all likely to work.
SlowLearner says
Hi again Sara
I am cautiously glad to say that the FOS investigator has upheld my complaint (it’s against Co-op bank) that they shouldn’t have raised my credit limit (four times) while I was gambling heavily on my credit card over several years. I say “cautiously” because Coop have to agree toit and I don’t know how likely it is that they will accept the judgement? Do you have any idea?
NB For anyone else wondering whether to put in a complaint and worried that they don’t have all the paperwork, I didn’t have much either, and I couldn’t even remember or prove when the credit limit raises had happened. I didn’t provide any bank statements (I wasn’t asked to) and I could only be vague about the amounts involved. The investigator was brilliant and got all that information direct from the bank.
It took a few months but I am now hopeful that they will agree to return all the charges as requested which would amount to a couple of thousand. As I am now gambling-free and making good headway towards being debt-free too, this will be a big step toward finally clearing the debts I accrued during those awful years. I guess if they disagree then I will go to the ombudsman but hopefully it won’t come to that…
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but I don’t remember anyone mentioning an overdraft complaint against the Co-op.
Cautiously glad is a very sensible attitude.
Warwick22 says
Well- I didn’t expect a lot and today received a letter from Aqua. They are refunding me almost £500 in cash advance charges and about the same in interest. These figure for cash advances is there or thereabouts . They have refused the 8% simple interest .
My gut is to take the money and run rather than escalate it for a further 8% but would welcome opinions
Motto is- nothing ventured nothing gained- I now have my eye on that iPad after drawing my previous one
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did they increase your credit limit during this period?
Warwick22 says
Yes several times from 300 to £7000. I paid the card off completely in 2018. They say the 8% doesn’t count because I did not pay the full balance off each month and therefore it doesn’t apply.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
that comment about the 8% is nonsense – you should get at least the 8% interest on the refund between 2018 and now.
But the credit limit increases are more important. Did the increase your limit at a point where EITHER you had only been making minimum payments for a considerable period OR where you had a history of large cash withdrawals showing OR where there were gambling transactions showing?
If any of those apply, then you should be complaining that the credit limit increases were not affordable and ask for a refund of ALL interest charged from that point on. That is likely to be a lot more than any possible extra 8% that is added.
D says
Sara I recently won a complaint against Barclaycard having the default removed from my credit file(there was also another default removed from the debt agency that purchased the original debt from Barclaycard. I also had over £3000 in interest removed from my balance. This left me with a remaining amount of £8000 to repay to the debt agency. They have contacted me today to start a repayment plan, what options do I have in this secenario?
It doesn’t seem to show on my credit file anymore will this be put back on it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
What are the rest of your finances like? Other problem debts? Any priority debts?
D says
I’ve come along way over the last couple years and made major improvements. I’ve two outstanding loans to pay, one with 2 months remaining and the other with 17 months remaining. They cost me £350 a month combined.
I have 2 credit cards both we a low balance that I clear by direct debit every month.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
one with 2 months remaining and the other with 17 months remaining.
Are these loans up to date?
D says
Yes both are up to date. The one with 17 months remaining has been with FOS awaiting final decision for 8 months now
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, then I suggest you tell the debt collector for Barclays that when you have finished paying of this first loan in two months, you will start paying them £x a month. And that this will increase to £y a month when your other large loans is paid off.
This debt should not appear on your credit record if you make a reasonable offer to start repaying it.
Warwick23 says
Sadly all the documents can’t be looked at again until next week. I have reread the letter and the interest refund is about twice what I thought .
There were no gambling transactions at all just multiple cash withdrawals . I need to check my credit files for those dates because there were x defaults and no payday loans . I think some of those defaults were PDLs but I am leaving them alone as they are either no longer in business or still have significant time barred balances. I worked really hard from 2014 onwards to get my finances on a better footing.
My guess is they are thinking I will take this now rather than more a year down the line ( I know how long fos complaints take).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
A lot of cash withdrawals is a sign of financial distress and a reason your credit limit should not be increased. In this situation it doesn’t matter what was on your credit record, the card lender should have been able to tell from your account that you were in trouble.
My guess is they are thinking I will take this now rather than more a year down the line ( I know how long fos complaints take).
You are very probably right! Which is why you need to think about how much more you could realistically get. As I said, the 8% extra is usually small in comparison to a refund of the interest you were paying.
Warwick22 says
Hi Sara and thanks
I have looked back at the letter and the statements. They have upheld my complaint from the second credit limit increase . Using those figures they are pretty much spot on with charges and maybe around £80 short on total interest but that may be my calculation. Again, if I have read the letter correctly the offer is for all of the above so total interest. Now my only decision is to decide about the 8% p.a. This would be about £300
but I’m not sure what the fos would say but with deposit rates being what they are they may say no.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
deposit rates? You mean that 8% is too high? no FOS will never say that – the 8% is a standard figure set for everyone. It is accepted this a very rough as some people may just be losing savings but others may have credit cards at much higher interest rates.
So your options now are to:
1) accept the offer
2) send it to FOS and ask for a refund from the first credit limit increased plus 8%
3) try to negotiate with Aqua – you could go back and say you will accept if they add 8% pa interest from the time you closed the account until now. Point out that if you go to FOS the 8% would be included AND you may get a refund from the first credit limit increase. I have no idea how likely this is to work.
Warwick22 says
Spoke to the FOS and New Day today. They had calculated the interest inaccurately by £100 so they are looking at that and my proposal for the 8% ( I pitched it as a compromise). Just time to wait and see now.
Thanks for the help
BTW there were no gambling transactions on my card account just plenty of cash advances.
Warwick22 says
Thanks Sara
Great advice . I am going to pitch at No 3 and see what happens. I think actually it is a good compromise all round.
I will check the figures again before I call them.
Keep up the good work.
Can I just add, the podcast on this weeks email hit home. It is no exaggeration to say ‘it could have been me’. Luckily I have a supportive partner and access to mental health professionals.
Ernestkola says
Hi sara…Can you make a claim if you don’t have gambling transaction on your credit statement ? Am only take cash out from cash machine.. also can you make claim against overdraft of £ 2000 and also loan?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Can you make a claim if you don’t have gambling transaction on your credit statement ?
for an unaffordable overdraft? Yes. two main reasons – did they increase your limit when they should have been able to see you were struggling?
OR have you been continuosly in your overdraft for a long while – never getting back into the black, or only by a tiny bit, on payday?
also can you make claim against overdraft of £ 2000 and also loan?
are these from the same bank?
Ernestkola says
Yes both overdraft and loan are from the same bank ..the bank offer loan of £1500 to cover my overdraft of £200so l took the loan to cover the overdraft .. now l have overdraft £500 left … am paying interest on the loan now…. l have £2000 credit card but they give me £2000 straight away without increased it
Can l have the template pls? 🙏 l want to make a claim
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can start with the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ but change it so it is right for you. Make it clear you are complaining about the overdraft and the loan (and also the credit card if it is from the same lender?)
Ernestkola says
Yes the credit is for the same bank
X says
Hi, I sent a complaint about multiple loans from the same company. In total the interest I paid was about £1000. They sent me final response saying that they did the required checks and that they didn’t have to see my bank statements because my credit report was medium/average score and my total debt was lower than my net annual income. Regardless they offered to refund me £500 which is about half of the total interest. Now I wonder should I accept this offer or should I go to FOS?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Who is the lender? How many loans did you have and we’re there any large gaps between repaying one loan an£ taking out the next?
X says
Lender was B*amboo, There were 3 loans with very small or no gap at all (like a top up loan). In total I borrowed approx. £3500. Irresponsible complaint raised due to gambling issues.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
And you settled these three loans and only paid c. £1000 in interest?
Or do you still have a balance showing?
Bamboo will negotiate on offers…
X says
Yes, all settled and in total c. £1000 in interest because the term for each of those loans were 12months. They were not large loans but then again I took them without any gaps and only because of gambling. I don’t have much experience with FOS, not sure how likely they will rule in my favour… So thinking of accepting. Or maybe I shall negotiate with them? (However it was their final response)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well £500 probably is not a bad offer here.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara just a quick question ..l just got reply from capitalone credit reject my irresponsible lending complaint… because they said have pass 6yrs to make the complaint . Which day is 5th of January of this
month to make it 6yrs above.. l have 2 credit with yhem of open 2016 capitalone and second one open 2018 marbles credit card. The capitalone credit one increased many time from £200 to £ 1500 (open 5 January 2016 marbles one is £1250 not in credit at all open 2018
..what is the advice pls? They said l can go to financial Ombudsman if am not happy
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Is the Marbles card connected to Capital One?
but regardless of that, send this complaint to the Ombudsman and explain how you have only recently found out that a card lender should have checked that increasing your credit limit was affordble.
Ernestkola says
Yes marbles credit card connect to capitalone credit card… when l call capitalone they see my my both accounts and they deal with me together with the 2 card
Sara (Debt Camel) says
ok! then send the combined complaint to FOS.
Ernestkola says
Thanks so much
SlowLearner says
I am biting my nails here. The adjudicator upheld my complaint 5 weeks ago but the bank said they are considering it and want another 7 days even now, before they respond. (I do understand that it has been Christmas etc but still.) I am now feeling less optimistic that they will accept it – I haven’t seen many people here say that the bank has had to “think about it” for ages and then accepted it. I suppose I should be glad that they haven’t just automatically said no… but it feels to me as if they want to fight it. Is this normal??
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sorry as I said, I don’t remember reports about the Co-op. What other banks do isn’t really relevant.
SlowLearner says
Unfortunately after 6 weeks of waiting they have now said they disagree with the adjudicator. She is considering “additional points they have raised”. Her original response seemed very thorough to me and I can’t think what else they could raise, but I guess it looks as if they will fight it all the way. Extremely disappointing.
SlowLearner says
The adjudicator continues to put her findings to Co-op and they continue to reject them, though with no new reasoning as far as I can see. It’s just going back and forth. Looks as if it will have to go the the Ombudsman.
I just pray they will agree with the adjudicator as it will be devastating to have come this far only to have it overturned. It’s already over a year since my complaint.
Still if the Ombudsman DOES eventually agree then the interest on what I think the settlement should be is increasing by about £1 a day so I guess it will be to my benefit that it is dragging on… IF it works out.
Ernestkola says
Good afternoon Sara … pls quick question can you make irresponsible complaint for £1000 limit on vanquish credit card or gambling complaint? But no gambling transaction on the statement … because am take cash out from the machine … and they never increasing the limit.. only £1000 from the start
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You have to argue that they should never have given you a card with such a high credit limit. It doesn’t matter what happened after that, you have to be able to show that from the other debt on your credit record they should have realised you could not afford this amount.
Na says
Hi there
I used to work at the financial ombudsman. There are unaffordable lending complaints, but also irresponsible lending complaints. So whilst you may have been able to afford your repayments if it weren’t for your gambling, if a lender has given you credit and it was clear you have a gambling addiction prior to being offered the credit, that would be deemed irresponsible lending, so you would still have a strong case.
Thanks :)
Hack says
This is good to know thanks. I spent 75k on gambling transactions before I took a loan out with Monzo and they had access to my bank statements because I banked with them. Emailed me multiple times offering the loan which I know is just standard marketing but don’t think they should of given me a loan and a overdraft in the same week with my account history.
Brian says
Hi Sara, I have a long history with gambling.
Until 12months ago I had cleared virtually all of my loan debt, with defaults dropping off my credit file.
During lockdown I became more impulsive (diagnosed ADHD and BPD), frivolous spending, living beyond my means.
As a result I started to rely on pay later apps (zilch, klarna, clearpay etc.), every month.
As defaults dropped off my credit file my credit score started to improve and I was able to get loans, of which I’ve been accruing since around March 2021.
At the beginning of 2022 I had a relapse playing national lottery scratch cards online (£300). Then crypto casinos (around £2000 to date). Transactions show as bank transfers to “Coinbase”.
I’m after some advice on where to go from here.
My immediate concern is over repayment, my partner and I are expecting a child in April and her maternity pay equates to a 60% drop in her monthly income – for 12months.
Second to that is that now historic defaults are dropping off I don’t want to do anything to add more or to have my file negatively impacted.
I’m hoping, likely naively, to get a mortgage in 2/3years.
my debts:
Savvy – £900 loan / £150pm – 0/12 repayments made
Loans2Go – *£500 loan / £93pm – 7/18 repayments
Fair Finance – *£700 loan / £92pm – 5/12 repayments
Credit Spring – £500 / £83pm – 3/6 repayments
The Money Shop – £500 – £580 to be repaid 28th Feb
My Finance Club – £200 – £225 to be repaid 28th Feb
Capital One – £200
Think Money – £400
Zopa – £400
The Credit Thing – £450
Zilch – £400 – to be paid by March
Zip – £150 – to be paid by March
Clearpay – £200 / to be paid by March
Openpay – £1600 / £180pm
JD Williams – £500
Sara (Debt Camel) says
There is absolutely no chance from what you say that you can clear all the debts without default or payment arrangements on your credit record and also be able to save a deposit in 2 or 3 years. It is going to be very tough to get through the year of maternity pay if it wasn’t for these debts…
I suggest a mortgage soon is a fantasy that you should forget about and do what is sensible – phone Stepcahnge and ask them to set up a debt management plan for you so you onlt have to make an affordable payments and interest is frozen,
Looking at the long list of mostly unpleasant lenders, the only likely ones for refund look to me to be Savvy 9as the loan was large, and loans2Fo And Fair Finance as they were top ups.
The others are small and it’s unlikely you would win an affordability complaint.
Going forward, I hope you have told your partner about your problems. And closed your national lottery and casinoaccounts. You MUST stop using very high cost credit. Any payday loans are in the previous year or two are a complete No for a mortgage lender.
Brian says
Thank you for this Sara. I have, now, had the difficult discussion with my partner. I’m motivated to try and avoid a repeat of the last 10yrs, missed payments and defaults, which would ultimately rule out home ownership were this to be the case again. Damage limitation of sorts. Whilst giving more money to these payday lenders makes me sick, i’m inclined to find a way to pay to avoid a negative impact on my credit file (I appreciate having the loans with these people in the first plus is already a negative).
On an unrelated note, how are payment arrangements recorded on credit files for bnpl firms? As the credit doesn’t show up on my credit file, is this still the case were an arrangement to reduce payments put in place? I’ve trawled various sites and cannot get a clear answer. Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You may be motivated to try to protect your credit record, but is this possible?
I think you need to be very realistic about your household budget for the rest of the year. Apart from the very high repayments to these high-cost lenders, you also need to look at how much your bills will be going up in April –
– energy bills will go up about 54% unless you are on a fixed rate. With a new baby, your house needs to be kept warm!
– council tax will be going up – have you found out how much in your area?
– National Insurance payments will go up, for most people the 1.25% rise in April means the amount f NI they pay will be about 10% higher
– most people’s broadband and mobile contacts will be going up, see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/02/millions-of-o2-and-three-customers-are-to-be-hit-with-price-hike/ and https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/01/millions-of-phone-customers-to-be-hit-with-price-hikes—what-yo/ which cover most of the major suppilers.
– then there is petol and food…
The BNPL you need to check up on each individual firm I am afraid – these firms are not regulated and there is no simple answer. Even if missed payments are not recorded, if the debt is sold to a debt collector, the debt collector may go for a CCJ.
Brian says
Thanks Sara. Edf direct debit going up by 70% from April. Council have warned of a potential 3% rise. NI, I’m fortunate enough to have a pay rise in April which will cover NI increase (just). Obviously heating, essentials are my top priority and will remain so. I am due CashEuroNet redress from March, £1,000 (30p in the pound), which will help.
Re bnpl, where is the best place to get this info? – companies themselves?
My thinking on these are that I’d set up a reduced monthly payment which hopefully would avoid sale to debt company. With payments being made it’s unlikely they’d pursue ccj. My main concern is my O/S debt being placed on my credit files with “arrangement to pay” of missed payment.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am afraid you have to check each one – the companies website is the best place to start. I know Klarna doesn’t report missed payments on its “pay later” but I think some of the others do.
Brian says
Hi Sara, a little update – loans 2 go offered a 50% reduction in interest as a good will gesture, not upholding any party of my affordability complaint. The remaining amount to pay is around £300. I’m quite happy with the response, I’ll just be glad to get it paid.
My question is over how repayment would appear on my credit file. They say “ We would then arrange a payment schedule more suitable to your current circumstances.”
As part of the resolution i’m assuming the £300 wouldn’t accrue interest, were I to repay in instalments how would my payments appear? Arrangement to pay? Would this be viewed negatively? I’m just trying to weigh up whether trying to pay in one go would have less of a negative affect on my credit file. Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You would need to ask L2G about this.
Ryan says
Hi, I had a question about a Tesco credit card, I took it out a few years ago when I was suffering with a terrible gambling addiction which thankfully is now under control, when I took out the card I was spending pretty much all of the money in my bank on gambling, and this was reflected on my bank statement, I was however still given the credit card, and unsurprisingly, after 2 weeks of having it I had maxed out the £1450 on 99% gambling transactions
This was before credit cards were no longer allowed to make gambling transactions
I made a complaint to Tesco where i mentioned that I feel I should never have been given the card in the first place, they never verified my income, which whilst true, would suggest they didn’t do a lot of checks, like checking my bank statement to see a lot of gambling transactions
They responded to the complaint with a final response which was that despite me clearly struggling to make my payments over the years, their terms stated that the interest and fees would be as it is and that they did their checks and decided I could afford the card
Do i have a leg to stand on with this if going to the ombudsman? Will they look at the fact my bank statement showed a lot of unaffordable gambling and that I shouldnt have been given a credit card, and even so, they should have limited the gambling transactions and not let me blow so much in such a short period of time?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
at the point you took this card, what did your credit record look like? would it have showed recent payment problems? or a lot of other maxed out cards? or other recent credit?
D says
From my experience so far everyone except Bamboo declined my complaints. They just don’t see gambling as expenses or say that they didn’t know I was gambling. So I end up sending them all to FOS and hopefully it will be upheld.
Ryan says
Hi, I had a couple of payday lenders come back to my affordability complaint and say that my income provided me with plenty of money to repay the loan they give me, but they fail to take into account the fact that my bank statement shows gambling amounts of £3500-5000 per month at times, which was funded by short term credit, or winnings from other gambling, aswell as my salary
Do i have a leg to stand on here if I go to the ombudsman if my income and expenditure I provided does genuinely provide me with plenty of money? Should they have checked my bank statements for gambling?
They said that my credit file at the time didnt show missed payments, and only showed £200 of loans taken out in 6 months, but I checked myself and can see I took out more than £1000 of short term loans in that time frame with other lenders
Is it worth pursuing this? Can they turn this on me if they find my income and expenditure was slightly inaccurate?
Ryan says
Just a sidenote to this too, not only does my bank statement show a lot of gambling, but I was also taking a lot of short term credit with high interest in a very short time frame, I had tried to apply 5 times for a loan with one of the lenders in the space of 2 months and was accepted the 6th time i applied after 5 declines
Sara (Debt Camel) says
For each lender – how large were the loans? How many loans did you have from that lender?
Ryan says
£200 each, at the time of the loans being applied for, on my bank statement I was paying loans to 5-6 seperate payday lenders, which I didn’t include on my regular expenses, what I did miss however, is my credit card payments, I simply forgot
Sara (Debt Camel) says
If you only had 1 loan for £200 from a lender you are very unlikely to win an affordability complaint at FOS.
Ryan says
I have a couple of complaints open I was hoping you could tell me if you think I have a chance
Tesco credit card, they came back and said they did nothing wrong, my argument is in the 2 months prior to my application I had on average £3500 per month of gambling transactions, and was taking out other short term credit to fund this, aswell as using my wages and winnings to gamble more.. I argued this was irresponsible to give me a £1450 limit when my bank statement is literally FULL of gambling. Then when I got the card, I maxed it within 2 weeks on gambling, and have only made minimum payments for 3 years
I have passed this to FOS, do you think I have a case? I have provided bank statements aswell as info on how much I was spending on gambling before applying and explained I was addicted without realising it but am now better (Thank god)
Another is with Natwest, I complained that the overdraft they gave me was irresponsible, before applying I was spending thousands per month on gambling, within 2 weeks my overdraft went from £0 to £1,010, 8 total applications, all at £100-200 increases, all accepted, at one point I was accepted for 2 overdraft increases in 1 day. Each time I gambled it away, then went and applied again, they should have seen from my bank statements before the applciations and during the applications that I was borrowing irresponsibly, I am still awaiting a response, do you think I have a chance here?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The NatWest one sounds a very good complaint from what you have said.
The Tesco one will depend what your credit record showed when you applied – payday loans, increasing debt would be warning signs
Ryan says
Hi Sara
The natwest one is ongoing but I had a conversation with my complaints handler today who, quite frankly hasn’t seemed the most competent throughout this process, he was unaware of half of the information supporting my complaint multiple times when speaking to him, but anyway, today he said he see’s no failure on the banks side and that they followed procedures
Apparently, as I applied for them all within 2 weeks of eachother, they wouldnt have seen the gambling transactions between as these checks are done monthly? But I was gambling for many months before the original application and had also taken out short term credit elsewhere too, he pretty much said that as there’s no banking failure I will have an email with a final response and that its likely to be they decline the complaint
My argument all along is how can you let someone who is gambling massive amounts increase his overdraft pretty much every day for nearly 2 weeks, and all that money be disappearing every time within a day, and there be nothing in their systems which picks up or prevents further overdraft applicaitons being accepted?
I will be taking this to the ombudsman, do you think I’m likely to win here? Do you know of any examples of similar cases/what people have got out of these sorts of complaints?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My argument all along is how can you let someone who is gambling massive amounts increase his overdraft pretty much every day for nearly 2 weeks, and all that money be disappearing every time within a day, and there be nothing in their systems which picks up or prevents further overdraft applicaitons being accepted?
Sounds like a good argument to me.
Put in your complaint to the Ombudsman that NatWest have not treated you fairly by ignoring information they had and failing to have systems that picked up the very obvious warning signs.
Ryan says
Would Tesco take into account outgoings being 80% gambling? Would they check bank statements etc or would I have to send them? Is that still something I can use?
Do you know from experience on here what Natwest are like with these sorts of complaints? Is there any examples?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
CTesch – do you mean look at bank statements now? yes you should send these to Tesco, don’t wait to be asked.
Or do you mean should they have checked them before giving you the card… that would onlt be if your credit record showed enough problems that they felp they needed more details.
NatWest – like all banks at the moment, expect them to reject this and for it to have to go to the Ombudsman.
ryan says
Hi Sara
Appreciate your help always
I had a credit card with capital one which I took out a few years ago, I’m still within the 6 years
At the time of taking it out I was gambling a lot, my bank statements etc clearly showed a high level of gambling and borrowing to pay for this
I maxed out the card within a few weeks on gambling transactions, and paid cash transaction fees on each time I made a gambling transaction, I had the card for 2-3 years, at which point I made a partial settlement at around £1500 for a £1850 balance (I was over credit limit as I was struggling to make payments)
My question is, can I still make an affordability complaint even though I was given a partial settlement on the account? Or do I not really have a chance because they could say you already paid less than you owed?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My question is, can I still make an affordability complaint even though I was given a partial settlement on the account?
yes.
This will reduce the refund you get by £350 because overall the amount you paid less than the amount you borrowed is £350 less than the amount it would have been if you had settled in full.
But unless your refund would have been less than £350, you will still get a refund!
Emma K says
Sara, in April 2017 I was able to open cards with Aqua (£300) + Vanquis (£500) that I used to fuel a gambling problem and subsequently defaulted on.
I had already just defaulted on an Aqua Card (£300) end of Feb 2017 – so less than 2 months before getting new cards and previous default. My credit file also showed a second Wonga loan (£300) in arrangement to pay and some historic defaults (Hire Purchase May 2017, Capquest 2013). What are the chances of winning an irresponsible lending complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
The first Aqua card had gambling showing on the statement?
Sara K says
I don’t believe the first one did show gambling.
Timeline was something like”:
Aqua 1: Defaulted 28th Feb 2017
Aqua 2: Opened 6th April 2017
Vanquis opened: 28th April 2017
Would the fact of a recent default on a poor credit card indicate the subsequent cards shouldn’t have been issued or am I grasping at straws?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh this still looks like a very good complaint against Aqua and a pretty good one against Vanquis.
Bad credit cards don’t expect their customers to have a perfect credit record, but a default only 2 months ago should have been noticed by Vanquis.
And I have no idea how Aqua could give you another card so soon after…
Dave says
Sara, I have a current account with HSBC and due to a combination of factors including suffering from depression and anxiety I have got into a bad situation. I use the hsbc investdirect product to buy and sell stocks. The product used to work by assigning a standard credit limit of 10k enabling up to 10k of stocks to be bought with funds debited from my current account 3 days after the share purchase. Probably 5 years or so back this 10k limit was upped to 20k. For the last 5 years at least I have been deep into my overdraft, using the o/db to trade stocks. In September last year following some bad trades I had to increase my overdraft to around £2,800 and for the same reason I now have a £4,000 overdraft. Do you think I have a case for irresponsible lending and or redress relating to the o/d. My take home pay is around 2300 and certainly for the last six months ive been permanently in the overdraft.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what is the value of shares in your trading account?
Dave says
Hi, value of shareholding now is 0.
M says
Hi Sara,
I’ve found this page and forum very informative thank you!!
I have a number of legacy debts from circa 2017 totalling approx £30k, a number of which have defaulted and a number of which are wrapped up in a DMP which I pay a very small amount off each month. These are all related to gambling during the same time period, the gambling has stopped since say 2018. The loans were taken out in quick succession to fund the problem and I feel detailed checks weren’t taken into my affordability for them.
Gambling transactions may not have been present on all statements provided (I used different accounts), but frequent cash withdrawals were evident that weren’t contested.
On this basis, do you think I have a good case? Primarily I’d like any interest charges refunded and the records removed from my credit file. I’d then be happy to look for an avenue to settle the balance or set up a payment plan for the balance.
I’d just like to understand the process in moving this forward, who do I contact in the first instance, the creditor? and can this be done via email?
What if the debt has moved from the original credit to a debt collector, who is contacted and responsible then?
If rejected by the creditor how is this escalated to the FOS?
And do you have any templates of letters please? I clicked on the link within the article but it just took me back to the overall affordability article.
Thank you so much for your help :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
On this basis, do you think I have a good case?
possibly. You have to stop thinking of this as “one case” though. You have a separate case against each lender. You have to think what could that lender see? Could they see enough to know that they should look in detail?
If the loans were taken out in succession, it may be that the first ones couldn’t tell there was a problem. And if they were in very quick succession, could the later ones see the earlier ones on your credit record?
What if the debt has moved from the original credit to a debt collector, who is contacted and responsible then?
the original creditor.
Templates depend on what sorts of debts they were. See this list of articles, each has a template: https://debtcamel.co.uk/tag/refunds/
M says
Thank you, yes some were in quick succession but may not have been apparent on the credit file. But I do remember so been astoundingly easy to obtain… should they have been asking for more detail? I remember not even providing bank statements for some of them, are they at liberty to request these?
Of course, I will view as separate cases, I suppose I just wanted an understanding that if credit was offered frivolously without much detail being provided and in some cases evidence of frequent cash withdrawals and transfers to another account (that I used for gambling) then would these be viewed in my favour in an affordability case?
Thanks so much
Sara (Debt Camel) says
It depends on what the lender knew and what credit was being asked for, whether the lender should have looked more closely. the answer may well be Yes in most of your cases – or indeed all!
M says
Ok thank you will give it a go
Ryan says
Hi,
I’m not too sure what the best reasoning’s would be to complain but believe I do have grounds to complain. from 2018 to mid 2021 I had a severe gambling problem and racked up debts of around 35,000 from several loan(NatWest, Lendable, Bamboo, JN Bank, MBNA, overdraft(with Halifax then Lloyds) & credit cards(Barclaycard, Halifax & Lloyds) whilst only earning 18k a year.
The main issue I had was with Barclaycard, they were allowing me to gamble using a credit card in 2021 after the gov banned this, when I tried to complete a chargeback Barclaycard said there was nothing they could do and it was my fault
Do you have any advise about what way is best to start to try and reclaim fees from lender’s & if you think I should be able to chargeback the gambling against Barclaycard?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should look at affordability complaints against most of the lenders. The possible exceptions and the very first lenders who started off the slippery slope. It may have been quite reasonable for them to lend to you. But later loans and increases in credit limits should be complained about.
To you it is all one case. But you need to think of this as a series of different cases. What happened with lender X – what would they have seen from your credit record and/or bank/card statements.
Use the template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/ for loans
template here https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/ for credit cards
and here https://debtcamel.co.uk/get-refund-overdraft/ for overdrafts.
You may well have a strightforward affordability complaint against Barclaycard? If so, make that and add on that they also continued to allow you to gamble from 2021 and you think you should not have to repay those borrowings.
M says
Hi Sara,
I have a similar case to Ryan. Just a question, will obviously use the template you have linked above as the basis but with regards to the reasoning do you just be open and honest about the gambling etc??
Thanks!!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Yes. As the article shows, this doesn’t hurt your case and can help it.
David says
I put in complaint against vanquis as they increased my credit limit 3 times after they could see all the gambling. The card was taken out in 2013 and the increase took place between august 14 and august 15 so out with the 6 years. But they came back today and partialy upheld the refund from the date of first increase. £6500.
Big surprise as thought they would refuse due to time. Thanks again Sara for all your help
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So they have offered £6500? That’s interesting!
You could possibly get more by going to the Ombudsman but that is a decent amount with no hassle at all.
David says
Yeah it was £6455 or around that. The first year the limit was only £500 so didn’t think interest would be to much for that period. More than happy with amount tbh. Means I can pay off aqua card aswell and send a complaint to them. Finally see a light at the end of the tunnel thanks to this site
M says
Hi, after initial complaints 2x of my creditors have come back to me rejecting the complaint, they have stated that at the time I met the affordability criteria and will not uphold the complaint. They have not even asked for any bank statements to support the complaint… although they have given me opportunity to respond before a certain date. Should I respond with all bank statements from that period and the periods before or should I just go to the FOS now?
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who are the creditors?
M says
Zopa and Ratesetter…
1st Stop responded asking for statements of which I provided
Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would send those straight to the Ombudsman. I don’t think either will change their mind if you try To argue with them.
M says
Ok thanks.
Can they (the creditor) argue that they weren’t privy all the bank statements, if I provide the ombudsman with all my statements… all with the same bank just different accounts.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
did the creditors ask for any bank statements at the time of giving the loan?
M says
To be honest I don’t recall what was provided at the time. With 1st stop they requested a bank statement to show my current name and address, I provided them with the first page of a bank statement that showed my name and address on, that was enough for them.
I seem to remember Zopa and Ratesetter were very automated and ‘easy’ to get approval, they may have asked for statements but I can’t remember for sure. If they did then I would’ve just provided my current account, which perhaps wouldn’t have shown the full extent of my spending and gambling at that time. Will this hurt my case or are they responsible for obtaining as much information as required?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So the decision making here can be thought of in stages
– did what the lender knew suggest you could afford the loans every easily? an increasing level of debt on your credit record, payday loans, any missed payments, would suggest that you have problems and they should look closer
– what would looking closer have shown?
I think you are overthinking this. if you know the loans were not affordable, send in a complaint and send it to the Ombudsman if the lender rejects it. You may not win, not guaranteed obviously – but when you know the credit caused you problems, why not try?