UPDATE – 13 November 2014
In late October, an Appeal Court judgment said commission should be refunded in a much broader range of cases, not just discretionary motor finance. The FCA is now proposing to extend the pause on discretionary commission complaints to cover fixed commissions as well. See Car commission refunds – can more people get refunds? where I cover this in detail
UPDATE – 24 September 2024
Following a consultation in August, the FCA announced an extension to the timetable for car finance discretionary commission complaints:
- the FCA had originally intended to publish its review setting out next steps in September 2024. This has now been postponed until May 2025, because there is a challenge to the Ombudsman’s decisions on these cases. The Judicial Review of the Ombudsman decision is bein heard in October 2024 and the FCA hopes for a judgment by the end of 2024;
- this FCA review is likely to lead to new rules which the FCA will consult on. It will have finalised these by December 2025;
- finance lenders will then have to follow the new approach;
- because of these delays, consumers are who have made a complaint and received a Final Response from the car finance lender now have longer to take their case to the Ombudsman The FCA says “If you’re sent a final response between 12 July 2023 and 29 April 2025, you’ll now have until 29 July 2026 to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.”
UPDATE May 2024
See Car finance discretionary commission claims – update May 2024 which has a round up of recent news about these commission claims and looks at what, if anything, you should do now.
On 11 January 2024, the Financial Ombudsman (FOS) published several decisions about discretionary car finance commission, including one against Black Horse and one against Barclays Partner Finance.
In these cases, people were charged a higher interest rate to increase the commission the dealers got. And FOS ordered a refund.
This is a scandal that may have affected millions.
These FOS decisions open the way to a large number of claims for refunds from people who took out car finance before 28 January 2021. Martin Lewis says this may be “the new PPI”.
As a result, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) which regulates car finance lenders has taken the highly unusual step of pausing complaints about these commissions. It says:
It’s important that any complaints are dealt with by providers in a consistent, efficient and orderly way. Given the high number of possible complaints, there’s a risk this might not happen.
The FCA is now giving car finance companies longer to respond to complaints and allowing you longer to take your complaint to the Ombudsman.
Contents
Why refunds are being given
Discretionary commissions were unfair
Before 28 January 2021, it was common for some car finance lenders to allow a car dealer or broker to set the interest rate on a car finance agreement within a range. In this article, I just refer to the car dealer, not a broker, for short.
The dealer would get more commission from the car finance lender the higher the interest rate was. So they had an incentive to set your rate as high as they thought you might accept.
As the dealer chose the rate, this is called “discretionary commission”. This was not explained to the customers, so the commission is also called “undisclosed” or, in layman’s terms, “secret”.
These discretionary commissions were charged on a lot of car finance for both new and used cars. On 28 January 2021, the FCA banned this in car finance. So it isn’t a problem on recent contracts.
If you took out car finance before January 2021, you may have paid a higher interest rate than you should have.
This was unfair as:
- you were not told about it;
- if you had known, you may have negotiated to reduce it or looked to see if you could get finance at a lower rate;
- the dealer didn’t do any extra work to justify paying extra commission.
A typical Ombudsman refund decision
FOS issues key decisions when it wants them to be seen as typical of decisions the Ombudsman may take in similar cases.
This is what happened in the Black Horse case:
- the Ombudsman found that Black Horse was prepared to lend to Mrs Y at any flat interest rate between 2.49% and 5.5%, with any amount over 2.49% going to the dealer as commission;
- the broker had discretion over what rate to charge. It set the rate for Mrs Y at 5.5% – the highest it could. This got the dealer the most commission;
- the extra discretionary commission accounted for more than half of the interest that Mrs Y would have to pay;
- Mrs Y was not told how large this commission was, nor that the dealer had set the interest rate and the commission;
- the Ombudsman found that this was unfair.
To put this unfairness right, the Ombudsman ordered that:
- Mrs Y should only have been charged the minimum interest rate of 2.49% and the extra commission amount she was charged should be refunded;
- 8% per annum statutory interest should be added to the refund.
The Barclays Partner Finance case was very similar. The broker had discretion over what rate to charge and setting a higher rate increased the broker commission. FOS took the same decision to uphold the case and ordered the lender to pay a refund that was calculated in the same way as in the Black Horse case.
In other cases, customers may get more or less, depending on the range of interest rates a dealer was allowed to set and which rate the dealer picked. If a dealer was allowed to set an interest rate between say 3% and 10%, and you win your claim you would be likely to get a higher refund if you were charged 8% than if you were charged 5%.
No discretionary commission – then no claim
In a third case, against BMW Financial Services, FOS found that the broker was paid a fixed commission by the lender. The customer who bought the car was not told how large the commission was, but the paperwork stated that the broker did receive a fee. Here FOS decided that the commission was not unfair, because it could not be increased by the broker, and the case was not upheld.
If no discretionary commission was charged on your finance, there is no claim for you to make.
Could this apply to your car finance?
Three things to check
Three things matter:
UPDATE none of these three things may matter after recent Appeal Court case
- the finance must have started before 28 January 2021 (After that date discretionary commission was banned.)
- the sort of car finance You can make a claim about Hire Purchase (HP) or Conditional Sale (CS) or Personal Contract Purchase (PCP)any of these types of car finance. (You can’t make a claim for Personal Contract Hire (PCH), sometimes called car leasing. And you can’t if you arranged the loan with a bank and it was not secured on your car.)
- whether you were charged discretionary commission There is a list of lenders who have stated they have never changed this sort of commission below – if your lender is one of these, there is no point in asking. But if your lender is not on that list, you have to ask to find this out. This is the key first step in making a claim, and it is easy – see below.
What doesn’t matter:
- if you are still paying the finance, you finished paying for it or you defaulted;
- if you still have the car, if it has been sold, or repossessed;
- how easy it was to pay the finance. That is irrelevant – this is a complaint that you were charged too much, not that it was unaffordable.
The Ombudsman can look at cases going back six years, or it can go back much further if you have complained within 3 years of finding out that there was a problem. And this is probably the first time you have heard about this! If your car finance is very old, there may be a problem if the lender has not kept any paperwork about it. But many very old PPI claims were won, so don’t let a worry about this stop you from making a claim.
Lenders who have never used discretionary commission arrangements
I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this list – it is for guidance. The following lenders have made a clear statement that they have never used discretionary commission:
A – Admiral; Advantage Finance; AutoLend; AutoMoney;
B – Billing; Burnley Savings & Loans
C – Car Loan Centre; Carmoola
F – First Response Finance
G – Guardian Finance
L – Lendable; Lombard
M – Mallard Finance; Moneybarn
O – Oodle; Oplo
P – Premium Plan
R – RateSetter; Retail Money Market
S – Specialist Motor Finance
T – Tandem
V – Vehicle Credit
1st Stop Finance.
The above list includes many “bad credit lenders” – if you had finance from one of them, then read the section at the bottom of this article on whether you can make an affordability complaint.
Lenders who have sometimes used discretionary commission arrangements
I cannot guarantee the accuracy of this list – it is for guidance.
This list is based on the original FOS decisions and the replies that some people have received in response to their query about discretionary commission. As more people leave comments here about their replies, this list will no doubt get much longer…
B – Barclays Partner Finance; Black Horse; Blue Motor Finance, BMW
C – CA Auto finance; Close Brothers
H – Honda; Hitachi Capital
F – Ford
M – Marsh Finance; Mobilize, Moneyway; Motonovo
S – Santander; Startline; Stellantis
V – Vantage; VWFS.
If your finance was through one of these firms you still need to ask if there was any discretionary finance on your contract. Just because a lender sometimes used it doesn’t mean they always did.
How to make a claim
Make an initial enquiry
Originally I had a template here. Now I suggest you use the MSE free tool. This will be updated for the recent Appeal Court ruling
There may be a delay before you get a reply
Normally a firm should respond within 8 weeks or you could send it to the Ombudsman.
But the FCA says:
We’re assessing the extent of the problem to make sure that, if you are owed compensation, you get it in the best way possible.
And as part of this, the FCA is allowing firms longer to respond to these complaints. And you are also allowed longer to send your complaint to the Ombudsman. It is still good to start the process now, but it may take a while.
You may get one of the following types of reply back;
- we don’t have to answer this for at the moment as the FCA has allowed us to pause complaint handling
- we don’t any records because of the age of your finance
- we have never used discretionary finance
- no discretionary finance was used in your case
- a description of the commission arrangement that was unclear or difficult to understand about whether discretionary finance was used
- discretionary finance was used.
If you could leave a comment below this article, this will help build a picture of who is most likely to be able to make a claim.
You do NOT need to use a claims company
You don’t need a claims company to do this or a firm of solicitors. It is simple to do yourself and a claims company will take a very large amount of any refund that you get.
It will not be quicker to do with a claims company or solicitors. They don’t have lists of who has valid claims, they will ask the same question that you can. Nor will you get more compensation that way.
IMPORTANT could you also make an affordability complaint?
These undisclosed commission complaints are not the same as affordability complaints.
But if your car finance was very hard to pay from the beginning, it may have been “unaffordable”. You may have had to get behind with other debts or borrowed more in order to be able to pay the car finance.
Here you may be able to win an affordability complaint – see Were you sold a car on unaffordable car finance? for details and how to make an affordability complaint.
NB it can be hard to win an affordability complaint unless you have good evidence about your finances at the time the finance started, such as bank statements. These are easy to get for the last 6 years even if you have changed bank accounts. But a long way back can be tricky even if you are still with the same bank. This issue isn’t relevant for discretionary commission complaints, only affordability.
If you win an affordability complaint you will get all the interest refunded. In a discretionary commission complaint you only get part of it back.
So I suggest you make the affordability complaint first. Because if you win you will get a larger refund. And affordability complaints are likely to be quicker than discretionary commission complaints. If you lose, you can then revisit the undisclosed commission complaints later.
Any questions?
Ask them in the comments below! These claims are very new, so finding out what other people are doing and the sorts of responses they get can be a great help.
Car finance affordability complaints
How to ask for refunds for all types of debt
My energy DD can’t be right!
Nita says
Yes, I will try to get them from my bank. I also asked Payplan to send me dicuments as that time I was with DMP. My credit score was poor – shame I can not access it
Alan says
Hi,
Motonovo has emailed me back.
After an initial investigation we have concluded that your agreement did involve a discretionary commission arrangement. We have acknowledged and recorded this as a complaint.
But I am concerned of it being time barred this agreement was about 15-16 years ago.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At this point we do not know what the FCA will say about time barring. But the Ombudsman generally has the ability to go back as far as it wants if someone has complained within 3 years of finding out they have a cause to claim – which would be these claims. A LOT of PPI refunds went a very long way back. This may well not be a problem at all.
Joe says
Hi,
Were any other details released in the Mrs Y example?
It seems to me that refunding the difference in interest is still going to leave us short changed. That additional interest goes straight into the balance which means that each subsequent interest calculation is going to be based on an inflated balance, which would mean even more interest being wrongly calculated.
Also- I never went into arrears but if I did and was charged a fee, could that be refundable given that my monthly repayment amount was too high?
Seems like there’s a lot more to it than just that interest difference. Is there any expectation around what the final calculation will be?
Cheers
Sara (Debt Camel) says
the full details are given in the two links in the first paragraph of the article
Wayne says
If this helps had an email today from motonova finance stating after initial investigation we can confirm that your finance agreement did include discretionary commission and have recorded this as a complaint
Aqua Abbott says
How long did it take you to get this response back from your initial email? I have just had an email (after 8 weeks) to say they don’t have an answer yet and will continue to investigate, but I can report to FOS if I would like to. So still not answer yet
Anthony Hall says
I have had several BMW cars/bikes all financed through BMW Finance I have had replies on a couple that they fall outside the time limit parameters which is fair enough, on others they have acknowledged receipt of the complaint but not that the discretionary commission was applied? Does this indicate that I was or was not charged the discretionary commission???
If the finance arrangement did not run the full term but for example was paid up 18 months into a 48 month arrangement then how is the repayment calculated?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
they fall outside the time limit parameters
what did BMW says these parameters were> How old were these finances?
they have acknowledged receipt of the complaint but not that the discretionary commission was applied
That does suggest that they sometimes used discretionary commission. It isnt really clear about whether they did ion your case.
Anthony Hall says
To be fair Sarah, they were post January 2021.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok , no question about those!
Liam says
Quite a positive response to my enquiry into DCA with MotoNovo regarding PCP financing taken out in 2020…
“Thank you for contacting us to find out if your Motor Finance Agreements had a discretionary commission arrangement. After an initial investigation we have concluded that your agreement(s) (XXXXXXXX) for vehicle(s) (XXXXXXX) did involve a discretionary commission arrangement. We acknowledge and have recorded this as a complaint. We’ll provide you with a reference number via email as soon as possible. In the meantime, please use your agreement number as reference.
No more action is required from you at this stage. We are following the FCA Car Finance Complaints guidance, which is pausing the 8-week deadline to respond to complaints, and we’ll respond after 25 September 2024.
If you have multiple Motor Finance Agreements, you will receive correspondence for any that did not involve a discretionary commission arrangement.”
AG says
Hi Sara – looking for advice, if possible? I made a complaint to BMW Finance Services using the discretionary commission templates available. I have received a response from them to state they note my request for response within 28 days, however they are reviewing the arrangement relevant to my agreement(s) to respond to my request and as such won’t treating it as a data access request under gdpr. They then note that the commission agreement isn’t disclosable under a subject access request as it is not personal data.
Does this sound like they are still going to review my past finances and determine whether I was mis-sold? I feel they have responded in quite a convoluted way.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it does sound convoluted. Could you copy out what they said and paste it in here?
AG says
Thank you for your correspondence. We acknowledge your request for confirmation of whether your finance agreement(s) held with us had a discretionary commission arrangement between us and the broker / car dealer or any other entity involved in the transaction. We note your request for a response within 28 days, however we are currently reviewing the arrangement relevant to your agreement(s) to respond to your request. We are therefore not treating this as a Data Subject Access Request (DSAR) under the GDPR. For clarity, the commission arrangement would not be disclosable within a DSAR as it is not Personal Data.
Due to high volumes of correspondence, we may not be able to respond within 28 days, however we will respond as soon as possible. If you have held other agreements with us, we will reply separately on these. For further information, you can visit the announcement on the FCA’s website.
AG says
Hi Sara,
Just wondering if you have had anyone else receive a response like this and whether you are aware if it means that the situation will be investigated/ not investigated?
Thanks,
AG
Sara (Debt Camel) says
it says “we will respond as soon as possible” so they are investigating.
Stephen Smith says
Hi AG,
I have been waiting over 10 weeks for a response from Black Horse, so their response doesn’t surprise me.
Lindasay says
Hi there I have received exactly the same response .. they have not come back to me yet
Caz says
Hi, i had this response about 6 weeks ago and they then investigated and company said today that they did have a discretionary commission so fingers crossed!
alex L says
This is the second identical email I have had from BlackHorse since my email around 6 weeks ago. When I get an update i will let you know.
We’re looking into your information request
Dear Customer
You recently asked us to check if there was a discretionary commission arrangement on your motor finance agreement. We have your request and at this stage we don’t need you to do anything else. We’ll get back to you to confirm as soon as possible.
It’s taking longer than usual due to the high number of enquiries we’re receiving at the moment.
Thank you for your patience while we look into this for you.
Yours sincerely
Customer Services
http://www.blackhorse.co.uk
Adam says
Hi Sara (Debt Camel)
We have the same issue. Submitted a claim months and months ago now with Blackhorse and keep receiving exactly the same response so they are not yet even confirming if I had it at this point or not? I appreciate that they don’t have to deal with the complaint under the Ombudsman update until later in the year however do they have a time limit to deal with answering as to whether or not we had it applied to our account?
I have seen people that have submitted later than myself with Blackhorse that have already had a response confirming whether they did or did not but I am still in limbo? Appreciate your help with this.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
In theory the lenders should reply yes or no to the question. You could complain that they havem’t. But the problem is this isnt likely to speed things up in practice. I know it’s frustrating but there isn’t much you can do.
nigel couldwell says
I contacted Santander Consumer Finance using a template from here. I filled what I could remember but had no papers as it was back in late 2014. I did not have my old account number. I gave old address,registration number and dealership where bought,which is till in business. A couple of days ago they sent me an email confirming there was an agreement in place and had pulled my old account number. They informed me it will be September now as we know before the next stage.
LeeAnn Garscadden says
Hi. I contacted Blackhorse re this. It has been 8 weeks & I haven’t received a reply. They did however send me a letter around one week after I emailed them saying they could not identify me from their records (I don’t have my agreement number). I sent them an email reply with the further relevant information they had asked for. Any advice on what I should do?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So have you just contacted them?
LeeAnn Garscadden says
No contacted them initially 8 weeks ago. A week later they sent me a letter which I replied to the same day.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You can send them a chaser email if you want. But I think BH is coping with a very large volume of queries and complaints
Sarah says
Hi I contacted MotoNovo
I’ve received thus response
Discretionary Commission Arrangement
Hello,
Thank you for contacting us to find out if your Motor Finance Agreements had a discretionary commission arrangement. After an initial investigation we have concluded that your agreement(s) for vehicle(s) did not involve a discretionary commission arrangement. We have now closed this enquiry.
If you have multiple Motor Finance Agreements, you will receive correspondence for any that did involve a discretionary commission arrangement.
Do I just leave it at that
Thanks Sarah
Sara (Debt Camel) says
MotoNovo have been telling some people they had discretionary commission – I think you can assume they have given you an accurate reply, so there is nothing more you can do.
Robyn says
I contacted 247 Money about a car finance agreement taken out in March 2020. They have responded today to say the following:
Therefore, we can confirm that all information relating to the finance agreement was provided to you in accordance with our regulatory obligations.
Whilst we did receive a commission from the lender, this was not discretionary and therefore did not impact the interest rate on your agreement.
At the time, I was in a debt management plan and had been for 6 years. The lender was aware. Do you think I have a claim under affordability?
Thanks.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes you may do if the repayments were hard for you to manage from very early on. Worth a try!
Laura says
Hi I got my final response from WVFS
“ We’ve now looked into the commission arrangement that was applied to your agreement and can confirm that no discretionary commission arrangement was in place.
This means that the retailer received a fixed amount of commission at point of sale and could not alter the interest rate in order to obtain a higher amount of commission.
As this is the case, there will be no compensation paid as you could not have paid a lower amount than the full amount of the finance on your agreement.
Please treat this as our final response to your complaint”
I take it that’s all I need to do now and nothing else can be done?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes that is correct.
Andrea says
Hi Sara
I have this email today from MOTONOVO.
It have been eight weeks since you advised us about your complaint.I appreciate it has taken a little longer than initially expected to resolve.Unfortunately,I can’t provide you with a final response just yet ,as we’re still carrying out the investigation.
I am very sorry for the delay,I’ll be in touch shortly with an update.
As eight weeks have passed,you do have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.You can contact them at..
I want to reassure you that I will continue to thoroughly investigate the issue you have raised to get the fairest outcome for you..
My question is ,should I contact Financial Ombudsman or wait for their response.
Many Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think you should wait another month or two.
Amanda Lewis says
Hi
Would this also relate to Motor Bike Finance? My husband had his bike finance with Blackhorse in February 2020
Many Thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
yes possibly. This is worth asking about.
Anthony Hall says
I have two claims in with BMW Motorrad (Motorcycle) Finance, as it was also a PCP it is included!
Amanda lewis says
Thank you, I have sent the email off and will wait and see their reply
Donald hew6 says
I had motor finance back in 1988 and 1998 is that to far back to claim discretionary commision
Sara (Debt Camel) says
At the moment it is not possible to say with certainty when these forms of commission started being used. I would however be surprised if there is any documentation at all from 1988, and there may well not be any from 1998. You can ask the finance providers if you want.
Anthony says
Can my finance company terminate my contract if I file a complaint?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Not if you keep paying them and you aren’t in arrears!
Mark James says
Hi, I have had quite a few Caravans via Black Horse Finance, does this Car Finance decision apply also to Caravan Dealers?
Thanks
Mark
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am told by the FCA that:
“The DCA ban [the FCA’s decision to ban Discretionary Commission Arrangements that came into force in January 2021] is restricted to ‘the motor finance market’ and relates to ‘regulated credit agreements to finance the acquisition of motor vehicles’. As a caravan does not have a motor it would be out of scope.”
However that doesn’t seem to me to prevent someone who bought a caravan on finance from asking whether there was a discretionary commission arrangement and taking their complaint to the Financial Ombudsman if there was or if the lender declines to reply. Because the unfairness in these arrangements is the complaint… and that applies whether or not there was a motor.
So I suggest you ask BH is there was a discretionary commission arrangement involved in your caravan(s) and if you do not get a reply within 8 week, send this to the Financial Ombudsman straight away, as the FCA’s pause on complaint handling does not apply to a complaint about a caravan.
Mark James says
Sara,
fantastic swift response, thank you.
I will give it a go, I just logged into my old account and, I cannot find an email address for them. Do I have to send an old fashioned letter or can I send it via email to sqd@blackhorse.co.uk .
Thanks again.
Mark
Sara (Debt Camel) says
where did you get that email address from?
Mark James says
Hi Sara,
I found the email address via Google – Black Horse Finance.
Is it the wrong one?
Mark
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That seems to be for reporting problems with your vehicle.
I suggest you send the email to BHComplexComplaints@blackhorse.co.uk. And put “Query about Caravan Discretionary Commission” as the title
Rachel says
I contacted MotoNovo about our policy which is almost paid off. They have confirmed that discretionary commission was applied to our finance package. They have logged a complaint and advised they will be in touch further once the FCA have made a decision towards the end of September. They did not provide details of the amount of discretionary commission applied though.
Thank you for raising and helping with this Debt Camel – Let’s hope we all get fairly compensated!!
Susan Ellis says
Hi Rachel which email did you use? As yet the emails I have sent have been returned due to their email box being full. Any help with this would be appreciated. Sue
Sara (Debt Camel) says
try commissionenquiries@motonovofinance.com
Susan Ellis says
I have tried that email address, I will keep trying.
Andrea says
Hi Sara.
I have received this response from asset
LINK capital :
We have liaised with PCF Bank Ltd who where the originators of your agreement and they have advised that they have advised that they ceased the use of DCA’s from 1st January 2021.
Upon reviewing the agreement, we can confirm that this was entered into on 8th March 2021.
As your agreement was entered into after January 2021, you would not be eligible for any refund or interest.
My question is/ how I know if this is actually true,is it any way I can find out.
Thank you .
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I assume the start date of the finance is correct.
Discretionary Commission Arrangements(DCAs) were totally banned by the regulator in January 2021. I am not aware of any suggestions that finance companies have broken that regulator rule.
Joe says
I had made a claim through a company last year before this mis-selling became mainstream at the start of this year, the company was Clear Money Claims. I am unable to get in touch with them and their website is now closed. Would I be able to continue a claim myself as I had signed the no win no fee agreement with them. As they are uncontactable would I be able to continue a claim myself?
Thanks :)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Sometimes these old claims pop up again with a book being sold to another claims firm.
But as you haven’t been told about this, I think you could start a claim yourself.
SW says
I have had a letter from Ford Credit after submitting the query to them.
Basically saying they need more time.
‘We’re not able to say whether the arrangements in place between us and the dealer included a DCA’.
They hope to send a final response shortly.
SW says
I have had an update from Ford Credit saying
‘After making further reasonable and proportionate searches, we’re not able to say whether the arrangements in place between us and the dealer included a DCA. This means we can’t say if your complaint is a ‘relevant motor finance DCA complaint’.’
They hope to send a final response shortly.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
oh! how long ago was the finance taken out?
SW says
March 2018
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh not that old then!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I would be surprised if they cant find records from 2018. But in the meanwiles, I suggest you get copies of your bank statements that show the payments you have made to them. just in case.
Keith Rooney says
Hyundai finance contacted me regarding my finance agreement and they said that they have no record of my agreements as it’s over 7 years ago and gave me a huge list of other providers, don’t know if my bank would still have records and at what cost to get a copy, brick wall here I think
Sara (Debt Camel) says
if you are still with the same bank, they should be able to provide a back statement and are unlikely to charge
Have you asked the dealer who the finance was with?
Keith Rooney says
Yes and they say hyundai finance andni found an old statement with finance agreement number which I gave them but they say no records available
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ask the dealer if there was any discretionary finance paid on the commission.
Rita says
I had car finance in 2008 on a vehicle purchased through British Credit Trust which was then acquired in 2014 by Capquest. Do you have any contact details for these please?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
BCT went into liquidation. It may be hard to win a claim against Capquest.
You could ask the dealer you bought the car from whether there was any discretionary commission charged. After so long they may no longer have the details.
Charisse Calaunan says
Hi Sarah,
Is there an email address that I can use for Hitachi Capital? I know they changed to Novuna, but I can’t see it on the list. Thank you.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
customerservice@novunapersonalfinance.co.uk
Carole Miles says
Do you have to have the paperwork and loan details, as some of our finance is quite a few years ago and one 5 year loan finished last year? I may not have details but know the name of the company.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
You don’t need the full details to make this enquiry. Tell them your address when you took the finance out and the registration number of the car if you know that.
Callum says
Good Afternoon – I have submitted complaints via your templates for 2x lease agreements. After the 8 week period, received a response acknowledging that a commission was paid to the retailer but that “all retailers were to disclose that a commission may have been payable”.
They go onto reject BOTH complaints on the basis that the information was provided as part of the pre-contractual documents AND that I benefitted from “significant financial incentives” from the vehicle manufacturer by financing the vehicle with them.
I will be forwarding this onto the FOS, but would like to know if you have any initial thoughts. Both letters are too long to provide as part of this initial post, but I can try to post as a comment in response.
Thanks, Callum
Sara (Debt Camel) says
what sort of finance were these? HP, PCP or leasing?
Who is the finance lender?
Callum says
Both PCP – both with FCA Automotive Services UK Ltd (trading as Alfa Romeo Financial Services)
Sara (Debt Camel) says
your options are:
– to send this to FOS as a complaint – the lender has not answered your question about whether a discretionary commission was charged and you want a refund if one was, as you consider it unfair. Poitn out that it is the “discretionary” element you are complaining about, not that some commission was charged.
– go back to FCA Automotive and say you are not asking whether there was commission charged but whether there was a discretionary element to that commission
It’s up to you. They certainly don’t seem to be very helpful.
Callum Flaherty says
Dont think they are actually disputing the fact they did on mine (after final response), but they are indicating it was communicated and I was aware of it. Anyway, forwarded to FOS for their input with full financial agreement and contract for their input.
Carl says
Had an email from CA Auto Finance to say that I paid the commission on 2 agreements
They have said they will be back in touch after 25/9/24
Karen Stacey says
VWFS have responded saying no discretionary commission on agreement. How can we get them to prove this? They could deny it in a letter but how can we trust their word?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
For the moment, I suggest you assume they are correct. They are not sending a flat rejection to everyone, see this responses admitting there may have been discretiionary commission in that case https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-finance-commission-get-refund/comment-page-3/#comment-527394
D says
Hi Sara
Interested in your thoughts please. I know a lot will depend on what the FCA decide following September. I had car finance back in 2012. the Finance company are yet to respond as to whether discretionary commission was applied. I have asked the dealer (who are apparently regulated by the FCA) and was met with a totally unprofessional response, commenting “people jumping on the band wagon” and “well you were happy with the car …whats the problem” and “you will only get back about £400” (implying it wasn’t worth it). I pointed out that that’s not the point, if it was the wrong thing to do. They haven’t said whether there was any DC but offered for me to go down there and look through 40 years worth of sale paperwork to find mine! because he hasn’t got the time to do it.
1. who should any complaint be directed at (if there was any DC) The finance company or the dealer
2. The dealer’s handling of this (it was the owner I spoke to) was quite rankly awful – can they be reported for their approach to this?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
£400 sounds better than nothing!
You may think it would be reasonable to infer from his unpleasant response that on some occasions he did take discretionary commission. After all if he never did, it would seem more likely that he would simply say so. However that doesn’t mean that commission was charged in that way on your agreement.
We are still waiting for the FCA, but my guess is that complaints would normally be against the finance company if they are still in business.
You could make a written complaint to the dealer and take this to the Ombudsman about poor response to a consumer query which was insulting and in breach of the Consumer Duty. And take that complaint to the Financial Ombudsman if it is rejected.
D says
Hi Sara
Thank you. Yes, i thought you may say that it would normally go to the financial business, and I think that would be the appropriate course.
I wrote off an email complaint last night, wish I had waited until today to see your thoughts as I probably would have worded it better then.
By the way he was talking, I get the impression its not the first call hes had about this and I agree he probably has taken some discretionary commission from some people. I included what he said in my complaint, I will give him a few weeks to see if he comes back to me and then maybe send another email, adding what you have said about poor customer service and breach of consumer duty
Thanks for your help
M says
Hi Sara
I emailed VWFS on 13th Jan and enquired whether a DCA was applied to car finance I took out back in 2009.
I heard back from them on 14th Feb to say they believed a DCA was applied to my agreement and did I want to proceed with my complaint. I replied yes.
On 29th Mar I received a further 2 emails from VWFS saying they still believed a DCA arrangement applied to my finance and the complaint had been paused in accordance with FCA instructions until 25th Sept.
I’ve just received another email from them this afternoon to say that no DCA applied to my finance and that is their final response to my complaint and I can refer it to the FO, but must do so within 6 months of today.
What a carry on!
I’m feeling both suspicious and annoyed about this.
Should I just let it be, accept it and forget about it?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
So first it isn’t correct that you have 6 months to send a complaint to the FOS. The FCA says
Consumers will also have up to 15 months to refer their complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, rather than the usual 6 months. This extension applies to complaints where the firm had sent a final response in the period beginning with 12 July 2023 and ending with 10 January 2024, or where the firm sends a final response during the period beginning with 11 January 2024 and ending with 20 November 2024.
So you actually have 15 months. But I don’t suggest waiting more than 6 months.
But in this situation I think you should go back to VWFS and ask them to explain what commission was paid to the dealer/broker on your finance and how it was calculated.
If you do not get a response in another 2 months, I suggest you send the complaint to the Ombudsman and say VWFS have to responded to you request for details about how the commission was calculated.
M says
Thank you Sara
I will do that and provide any updates for your knowledge/the benefit of others who may find themselves in a similar situation.
Henry Farrington says
Sara, you started your reply by stating ‘referring the complaint to the FCA’ this should be amended to the FOS.
Also, not all final responses have 15-month referral timeframes. Just the ones where a DCA is present. Moreover, suggesting the FOS pick this up because no DCA was found is inappropriate. You do great work, but on this occasion please ensure to review these oversights before providing suggestive advice. Especially that other consumers may read and then decide is true for their case too.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I have corrected the first point.
The second one isn’t clear. Because the complaint to FOS would be about a DCA, if the lender fails to give details of what commission was paid and how it was calculated.
Josh says
Hi Sara,
I commented here about 2 months ago and you suggested I make an affordability complaint.
I’ve just had comfirmation of a £1200 refund thank you.
You also helped me get out of my guarantour loan with Amigo with your advice.
All in all this website has helped me save around £12,000 and I’ll be forever greatful :)
Stephen says
I notice the list of lenders that allegedly have never used a DCA includes Marsh Finance. Is that a mistake? I had a reply from Marsh Finance yesterday saying my agreement with them was subject to a DCA and they’ve logged my complaint.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I will take it off that list
J says
Please remove Advantage also
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Advantage have a clear statement on their website that they have never paid discretionary commission.
SaraLou says
Black horse have emailed me 3 times sibceci applied on 16th February each saying this ,
we’re looking into your information request
You asked us to check if there was a discretionary commission arrangement on your motor finance agreement. We have your request and at this stage we don’t need you to do anything else.
We’ll be in touch with an update in the next 28 days. It’s taking longer than usual due to the high number of enquiries we are receiving at the moment.
Thank you for your patience while we look into this for you.
So I’m guessing just have to hold out and see
Sara lou
Andrew P says
Thank you for your enquiry. We confirm receipt and we’ll respond to you in due course.
Please note we are following the Financial Conduct Authority guidance (Car finance complaints | FCA) to pause providing final responses to certain commissions complaints at this time. We’ll be contacting everyone who is affected by this pause. Any enquiries not affected will continue to be dealt with in accordance with our normal procedures.
Mercedes-Benz Finance
Received today after follow up email from 22nd Feb
Mrs B says
I’ve had two responses so far, one from Black Horse and the other from Vantage in relation to a Toyota – both have confirmed the discretionary commission. I await responses from MINI x 2, Hitachi x 2 , Black Horse x 1
VWFS and Audi appear to say no on all of my agreements
Lombard was a no too
mehrnoosh haghighat says
Hi
Thanks for all the help here.
I got a car finance through credit plus but they were not the lender and the middle person for the loan. the lender was R. RAPHAEL & SONS LIMITED which has gone into liquidation. can I still send a complaint form to them ? or shall I send it to creditplus as they were the credit intermediary ?
thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Raphaels are liquidated – there is literally no one to contact that would reply to you.
Send the query to creditplus – it isn;t known at the moment whether you will be able to make a claim against them, but at the moment you are just asking for information about whether there was any discretionary commission charged.
Sam says
Thank you for the template, I send off to Mobilize who got back with an automatic acknowledgment email and then sent me another email a couple weeks later and assigned me with a reference number but nothing for me to do but note the reference number as it will be used in all furure correspondance. Do you think this means they have applied discretionary commission? What happens next?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
My feeling is that if a lender had never used discretionary commission they would have said so. But this sort of temporising reply may simply mean that no one has looked at your case, not that is was definitely used in your finance.
Tim says
I messaged Mobilize a while back, there were about 6 weeks between the “here’s your reference number” email and the “there was no DCA” email, if that helps…
Donna says
Hi Sara
I have sent off 2 emails, one with Motonovo and one with Mobilize and received 2 emails back from each company stating that DC was used and to wait now for a further response.
My question is whether I should now also send an affordability complaint to the last company I used as not long after this we had to get an IVA as we got into financial difficulties. You have been helping us with the IVA also and im so glad to say it now complete and we have received the certificate.
Do you think I should leave it as it is now with the DC complaint or go for an affordability complaint too?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
who was the IVA firm?
Donna says
Bennet Jones
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know what BJ would do – some IVA firms would try to claim any refunds you get back to go into the IVA even though it is closed. You need to ask BJ.
stanley chawasarira says
Response from my car finance company. What do i do next.
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for contacting ……..
The commission paid to the credit broker for the above agreement was £1,220.78 and the commission structure was DCA (Discretionary).
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Was that all it said? Who was the finance company?
Stany says
Date: xxxxx
To: xxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Agreement number xxxxxxx
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for contacting Startline Motor Finance.
The commission paid to the credit broker for the above agreement was £1,220.78 and the commission structure was DCA (Discretionary).
If you require any further help or support, our Customer Services Team will be able to assist you and can be contacted on xxxxxxxxx. Our opening hours are 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday and 9am to 6pm Saturday and Sunday.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Ok, I suggest you tell Startline that you want to make a complaint that this commission structure was unfair and ask for a refund of the commission plus 8% simple interest.
Stanley says
I have sent one and got this response. With a complaint acknowledgement Reference
2* May 2024
Case Reference Number: REF -xxxxxx
Dear xxxxxx
Complaint Acknowledgement Letter
Please accept this as an acknowledgement of your complaint, and confirmation that it has been passed to the Complaint Resolution Team for investigation.
We will endeavour to handle your complaint as quickly as possible and aim to provide you with a final response no later than eight weeks* from receipt of your complaint. However, we would like to remind you of the importance of maintaining any payments that fall due during this process, so as to avoid adversely affecting the financial information that we are obliged to report to the Credit Reference Agencies.
* Please be aware that if your complaint relates to a discretionary commission arrangement then you will not receive a final response or outcome within eight weeks. These types of complaints and how they should be handled are currently being reviewed by the FCA and, as such, they have asked us to pause any response until 25th September 2024.
Katy says
I had three consecutive finance agreements in place with Vauxhall Finance dating from 2013 through to 2020.
I emailed them yesterday using the template provided above. To my surprise I got a response less than 24 hours later stating:
Thank you for your email dated 8th May,2024 asking for confirmation of whether we paid the dealer a discretionary commission for your introduction to us.
After checking our records, we can tell you that we did not pay a discretionary commission to the dealer. Therefore, the guidance and rules announced by the FCA on 11 January 2024 is not applicable to your agreement. You can access the information provided by the FCA to consumers here : http://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/car-finance-complaints
I was amazed to get such a quick response especially as I didn’t have all the agreement numbers to hand.
Can I/should I take their word for this…?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I think at this point that you should. It seems unlikely that a firm will mislead customers about this. But come back here in september and see if there is any more news?
Katy says
Thank you! Will do
jonathan heard says
Hi my daughter received a reply from black horse today saying that there was discretionary commission on her agreement. What should she do now? Should she sent a complaint to them? If so what should she reply with? many thanks
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am writing a round up post covering a lot of points including this one. Should be published in the next few days/
Jon says
I received the following response from CA Auto Finance today:
“Dear xxxx,
We write further to your recent communication regarding agreement number xxxxxxxx asking for confirmation of whether we paid the dealer a discretionary commission for your introduction to us. After checking our records, we can confirm that we did pay a discretionary commission to the dealer. We will treat your communication as your complaint. We usually have eight weeks to send you a final response letter, but the pause introduced recently by the Financial Conduct Authority means that the period starting on 11 January 2024 and ending on (and including) 25 September 2024 is not counted when calculating this eight-week period.
We will be in touch with you again after 25 September 2024.
Kind regards,
CA Auto Finance UK Ltd”
Lauren says
Hi Camel,
Used your template for CA Auto Finance,
A discretionary commission was paid and enquiry logged as complaint.
Have responded in 3 week a, but now won’t hear until after 25th September 24 due to the pause.
Thank a for your help!!
Parag says
Hi Sara
Thanks for your template.
I have sent this to Blackhorse on behalf of my parents, as their agreement commenced on 04/01/2021 and is still ongoing.
I will update you once I hear back from them.
Emma Thresh says
Hi,
I saw an advertisement yesterday on Facebook saying Black Horse is refunding. I then read this article saying she doesn’t need to use a claim company to help her get a refund, so I’m going to help her by emailing Black Horse directly using your template.
My daughter bought her 1st car 2019 and the Finance agreement is with Black Horse so we’re hoping she is entitled to a refund.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Being a good mum takes many forms when your the kids are older!
Did she have any car finance before that one?
Anthony Hall says
Hi Sara,
I have had a response from VWFS, confirming that I did pay a DCA, they didn’t say what that figure was but then sent me an email asking for further information including the finance reference number and the bank account number that the finance was paid from? I don’t know the finance agreement number nor my old bank account number? Can this be used against me to further my claim?
They acknowledged it was paid from the registration number!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I don’t know. When did this finance end? Was it refinanced at the end?
Anthony Hall says
In 2022 I think it was?
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is very recent – you must be able to go back to your previous bank and get statements
Mirela says
This is from Honda finance
Thank you for your enquiry regarding a potential discretionary commission arrangement between Honda Financial Services and your dealer.
From the information provided, we believe there may have been a discretionary commission arrangement on your agreement(s) and as a result, you may be impacted by the Financial Conduct Authority investigation into historical motor finance commission arrangements. We will now consider this enquiry to be a complaint and follow our usual complaint handling procedures subject to an amended timeline as directed by the Financial Conduct Authority.
On 11th January 2024, the Financial Conduct Authority announced they would be reviewing historic commission paid to dealers on motor finance agreements, specifically discretionary commission arrangements. Discretionary commission arrangements were arrangements between lenders and brokers which allowed the broker to adjust the interest rates offered to customers and was banned by the FCA in 2021.
Within their announcement the Financial Conduct Authority confirmed that:
The 8-week timeline for businesses to send a final response letter has been extended by an additional 37
Because your complaint relates to Commission, we may be unable to issue a final response to you, until after the 25th of September 2024.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
thanks for the update – I have added Honda to the list in the article above of firms that have sometimes used DCAs
Liam says
Hi Sara,
Looking for some advice if possible.
I raised my complaint with Alphera Financical services (BMW finance) through the email address available on your site (commissiondisclosureenquiries@bmwfin.com).
This was originally raised on 12/03/2024 and I have followed up with 3 chaser emails but only seem to be receiving automatic responses back.
No one has ever answered my original email which was the template you provide when complaining.
It’s now almost June and I am no further forward to my initial complaint raised on 12/03/2024 which included all of my account details.
Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks
Liam
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I haven’t seen BMW give a positive response to anyone yet. Some people have been told BMW is reviewing their contract. Others have heard nothing. Several people have had nothing. In this sort of situation it seems clear that BMW has sometimes used Discretionary commission, otherwise they can simply reply “No, we have never done this” to everyone. But that doesn’t help you know what happened in your case.
The regulator is allowing car finance firms until late September to respond to these queries and complaints. There isnt a practical way to speed them up I am afraid.
D says
Hi Sara
I am not sure that’s quite correct – that the FCA is allowing firms until September to respond to ‘queries’. Below is a copy/paste of a letter from the FCA to all CEO’s (taken from FCA website)
Firms must deal with DCA complaints and subject access requests appropriately
Firms should continue to investigate the complaints they receive involving a DCA. This
will help ensure firms are able to act promptly to resolve complaints if we decide the pause
should be lifted and complaint handling should resume. Even if we decide that DCA
complaints should be resolved through an alternative approach, it is highly likely that firms
will need to take similar steps.
Firms should also consider the Information Commissioner’s Office guidance on responding
appropriately to data subject access requests. Firms should confirm, if a consumer asks,
whether their agreement involved a DCA, even if they haven’t submitted a data subject
access request.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Well I am being practical. Although the FCA says firms should respond, how can you make them? Joining the back of a queue of 20,000 cases at the Ombudsman isn’t going to get you a result faster…
Njw9 says
I got a vehicle years ago with black horse but it was 0% finance, so I assume there wouldn’t be any discretionary commission if it was done as part of the interest rate
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is correct. if you didnt pay any interest, there can’t have been a discretionary Commission arrangement in place
Ali says
Hi Sara ,
Hope you fine . I have used motonova for my car finance but it was HP and it was 2019 also they took extra money from me and told me I had a missed payment . Later on I have checked and emailed and complained as well . But didn’t resolve .
My first question : can I get anything For HP finance for this FCA thing .
And second qustion : I have emailed them for my extra pay which I have a copy can I do with this anything . Also can I share with you incase if you can help me please .
Thanx a lot
Waiting for your reply
Sara (Debt Camel) says
when was your affordability complaint rejected? did you mention the “extra money” as a part of that?
yes you can ask them now if they used discretionary finance
Ali says
I didn’t complaint for the affordability I just emailed them about my arrears and why they took more money . But they couldn’t give me the answer properly then I raised to complaint department and they replied it’s for my arrears . Then I asked them “why you took money again after I paid my arrears when my contract finished” . They didn’t reply me back and it’s almost a year now. mean if you see my emails then probably you will get it . I don’t think so I can explain you properly.
Also for Hp finance I will email them .. let’s see . I will update you about the HP finance . But for my first problem if you want to see those emails I can forward or screenshot to you .
Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I am sorry but if it has been a year you cannot take this complaint to the ombudsman.
And you cannot make the same complaint again.
Do you think the credit was affordable? Read https://debtcamel.co.uk/unaffordable-car-finance/
Ali says
Hi Sara I got a reply from motonova as below
Thank you for contacting us to find out if your Motor Finance Agreements had a discretionary commission arrangement. After an initial investigation we have concluded that your agreement(s) (20662529) for vehicle(s) (FY16ZWJ) did not involve a discretionary commission arrangement. We have now closed this enquiry.
So can I do anything else ? Or can not do anything. Please let me know . Thank you
Sara (Debt Camel) says
That is the end of this. Motonovo didnt use DCAs for all their agreements, there wasnt one on yours so you have no complaint to make abiut it.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
UPDATE – I have written a new article on these claims with a round up of recent news. It also and looks at what, if anything, you should do now. https://debtcamel.co.uk/car-commission-dca-update-may-2024/
Rebecca hewitt says
Has anyone had one with GE Money, I am not sure if they are still trading.
Clare says
I’ve had a response from Motonovo confirming Discretionary Commission was used and they will be in touch after 25th September.
Susan Ellis says
Hi Clare would you tell me the contact address you used because my email I’ve used for them keeps saying that their email box is full and try later.
Clare says
Hi Susan, this was the email address I used customercare@motonovofinance.com and they replied with the same address. I hope this helps
HG says
Hi Sara,
I sent an email to Motonovo complaining about discretionary commissions. Today, I got their response (backdated which was strange, to 13th April). They say that the commission was not added to the finance agreement. Can you advise of any next steps?
The agreement was subject to standard terms and conditions. The terms and conditions explained on page 15 under clause 12.6: “A commission may be payable by us to the broker who introduced this transaction to us.”
The agreement was signed by you and by us. By doing so, we entered into a credit agreement which is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the CCA). To allow us to enter into the agreement, we bought the vehicle from the Dealer and you took delivery of the vehicle.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Could you copy in the exact words they used
HG says
The agreement was subject to standard terms and conditions. The terms and conditions explained on page 15 under clause 12.6: “A commission may be payable by us to the broker who introduced this transaction to us.”
The agreement was signed by you and by us. By doing so, we entered into a credit agreement which is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the CCA). To allow us to enter into the agreement, we bought the vehicle from the Dealer and you took delivery of the vehicle.
We paid the Dealer a commission of £10,778.12, however, this was not added to your agreement, which brings the total balance financed with us to £10,778.12.
You have signed a declaration on page 5 for a pre-contractual agreement which confirms “I was given the above information verbally by the supplying dealer before I signed the Hire Purchase Agreement. I was also given a copy of this document to take away”. This was signed by you on 15th August 2014.
You have also signed a declaration on page 6, which confirms you understood the terms and conditions of your agreement. This was signed by you on 15th August 2014. It is ultimately your responsibility to ensure you are happy with the terms of your agreement before signing.
Sara (Debt Camel) says
I suggest you reply asking M to confirm whether there was any element of discretion involved in how the commission rate was set and whether this impacted on the interest rate that was applied to your finance.
Annette Stacey says
Hi, I had put a complaint in for a Black Horse HP arrangement for purchase of my car back in June 2017. Black Horse have acknowledged that there was a Discretionary Commission Arrangement, but are waiting to find out what the FCA’s announcement will be. So now have to wait after the 25/09/24.
Annette Stacey
Anthony Hall says
Just an FYI for MotoNovo Finance people, I submitted a claim for my son and they have settled! They made him an offer (conditional of course and less than they would possibly have had to pay post 25/09) but he accepted the offer (against my advise!) so it’s certainly a slam dunk for the claims!
Sara (Debt Camel) says
Oh! Can you say what he was offered?